Sad Boyz - Depression w/ Tyler May

Episode Date: February 25, 2018

On today's sad boyz, we're joined by Tyler May of Mr. Feels (a mental health podcast) to discuss depression. We address coping strategies, therapy, and our own experiences. Also, Jarvis is back from NYC and tells the story of running into his two comedy heroes at breakfast, Tyler is visiting the city and already taking SF by storm, and Jordan cried at a philz. This ep is a little raw, so the topic gets started at 38:00 if you're lookin' @sadboyzpod

Considering the severity of the situation, that's a pretty calm way of announcing it. Oh, um, honey, you're home? I, uh, I shrunk the kids. Not like, honey, Christ, one, I'm a genius. It should probably be like, it should probably be like, Jesus, fuck. At no point does it say I shrunk the kids, because it's clear. What? Holy, no. Holy ellipses. Pause. Fuck. i'm gonna fucking die my kids are dead and it's all my fault they let him keep them though for a whole other movie didn't get the kids taken away

honey i shrunk the kids again wait what's the sequel of that movie honey uh the court should have stopped me honey i think it's pathological honey at this point it's the fault of the state welcome to the sad boys a podcast about feelings and other things also i'm jarvis and i'm disney's the black panther today is and what do you think of the panther day what do you think of the voice uh were you because there's probably going to be spin-offs, because the movie just came out. It's very, very popular. People are very excited about it. Right.

Black Panther, yes, just came out. I'm thinking, you know, maybe that's an opportunity for me. Maybe I can slip it. But I just want to go back to The Voice that you're talking about. Yeah. When you introduced yourself as Disney's Black Panther... Disney's the Black Panther, yeah. Okay.

Was that... Who were you trying to be? That's the guy. That's him. that's the guy that's him that's the oh the the monster like chadwick boseman's i don't know who that is but you know the main monster in black panther the bad guy he's like a big cat he's like hey spider-man give me your gun he takes his gun uh yeah you haven't seen the movie, I can tell. How embarrassing. Welcome to the Sad Boys. My name's Jarvis. And I'm...

I quit. Today we're joined with a very special guest. Who's that? It's our boy. He really is our boy. He's our boy. That means a lot. Don't talk.

We're doing the show. He really is our boy. It's like you mentor someone and you feel like you're there for really important parts of their lives. Yeah. And much like having a child, you think you're going to have a real impact and maybe make them an acceptable part of society. But you're really not a part of their lives at all. It's just a moment of pride for the both of us that we're joined today by the one the only time we're still doing the show and we're still doing the show so we're gonna just

introduce you please don't talk when we're talking it's kind of the only and then the third this is my favorite bit you don't like the length of it do you think maybe it could be longer so we're joined by tyler may today one of our our great friends family the boys um that's pushing it a little bit okay well i'll take it man of his own pod oh i do i am a man i do do you just marry that phrase no i'm so dedicated to the podcast all right you love your show mr feels i do so tyler is a multi-hyphenate he does photo he does video he hosts his own podcast about mental health called mr feels and he's one of our uh favorite people yeah closest friend favorite people something of a raconteur oh that means a lot i don't know what that means but it certainly seems like you would be one. Yeah.

Do you raconteer? I'm very confused. Raconteurs were that super group. No, not racketeers. That's a different thing. Yeah, you're something of a racketeer. You play squash, tennis, anything that gives you the opportunity to grab a hold of that old stick.

Couldn't think of a slang word for racket. The old stick. The old circle stick. There's a hold of that old stick. Couldn't think of a slang word for racket. The old stick. The old circle stick. There's a lot of you. So, and today, Tyler's joining us to talk about a subject that he covers very often on his own podcast, depression.

You've been saving all of your best points for this podcast. Yeah, get hyped. who's ready for some maybe a little bit i don't know i'm the hype man for mental illness that's that's your description there we go styler may the hype man for mental illness no i'm no expert mental health may be better because i'm not like against health right you're like you're not trying to you're not trying to hype up the illnesses themselves you're not like you can do

it bipolar disorder believe in yourself disassociative fugue um that's right i'm pulling out i'm pulling out things from the dM-IV. I took a psychology class. It's finally paying off. I knew it would be useful. I've had this paper in the back pocket for the past 12 years. Yeah, we're talking to our sweet boy Tyler May about depression today. But before we do, Tyler May, our friend raconteur, racketeer. Okay, okay. How the hell was your week? What did you do? It was great. I flew in from Indianapolis after driving there from Louisville, Kentucky,

where I go to school and study counseling after I dropped out because I got real sad and depressed. So that's something we can talk about. Where was your hype, man? I didn't have one. Well, you had one for the illness. Yeah, yeah. I had the opposite of that. Yeah, you actually had it the wrong way. You were like, no, you? I didn't have one. Well, you had one for the illness. Yeah, yeah. I had the opposite of that.

Yeah, you actually had it the wrong way. You were like, no, you can do it. Destroy Tyler. Yeah, yeah. It was real unhelpful. Yeah. Yeah, I think total good. Got to hang out with some Patreon people to make some money.

Had a photo shoot. It's always a good time to make some money. Able to charge about double the price as normal in San Francisco. And that's for photography and the like? Yes yes i'm a freelance photographer and videographer tyler takes amazing photos if you uh most of the photos that are good on my instagram are from me but the ones pretty good are from uh i think a lot of the sad boys photo all the good sad boys photos that's absolutely enough yeah and all the bad ones are me too, but I do all of them. Do not come on my show and claim that our low-res cameras aren't going to take as high quality

as the ones that you spent five to six hours on per image. Yeah, a little bit. How dare you? But yeah, what? You just got a little busy? I'd probably rate it an eight out of ten. It's a little busy. I've got a wedding that needs to be finished by Sunday.

Not photos. There's an ongoing really slow wedding. Yeah, I'm getting married, boys. Your family has flown out, and they really like to see a ceremony. But you're just dragging your feet. Real bummed about it. You already said I do. I know, multiple times.

I'm overcommitting. Yeah, is this the marriage to the podcast? Yes, I do. Jordan, howcommitting. Yeah, is this the marriage to the podcast? Yes, I do. Jordan, how was your week? A little old me. My dude. You know me.

I like to be on brand. I like to always reflect the topic in my week. I feel like this is the third episode in a trilogy of particularly sad, sad boys. It's a downward spiral. Which should indicate that this will be the worst of the three. Because I'm here. This is always the weakest of the trilogy. Yeah. I had a of the trilogy. Yeah. I had a pretty challenging week.

Yeah. For the sake of transparency, I feel like this is a very sad boys thing. Yes. I cried a little bit in Phil's today. Oh, man. Which anybody who listens to the show knows that every anecdote I tell either happens before, during, or after going to Phil's. Like, Phil's is the neutral point for all stories. Now, for the listeners,

they should know that this was after you accidentally composted something that you were supposed to recycle. You know I would never do that again. Let's not get back into that. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Life is the moment in between going to Phil's. I was going to Phil's this morning,

and it's been a difficult couple of weeks. Is this all work stress? Work, personal, just kind of the conflation of a lot of smaller events resulting in that burnout that we referenced before. Yeah, absolutely. But more recently, I have some trouble sleeping. And if I'm not very careful about routine, which I very often am not, I can set myself off in a really, really, really, really bad place. And so I did that a couple of nights ago, and I got sick. And then the following day, I was just miserable.

Oh, no. A day. And then the day after that, I was still kind of locked in that mode, and I was just in Phil's coffee. I only ever get one drink. Yeah. I've got no problem with that. And for some reason, the idea that I was still kind of locked in that mode, and I was just in Phil's coffee. I only ever get one drink. Yeah. I got no problem with that. And for some reason, the idea that I was-

Istanbul treat. The Istanbul treat with a little bit of honey and plenty of almond milk. Thank you. Yeah. Now, I want to hear the remainder of the story, but thanks to you, I've started adding almond milk and honey to some of my drinks. Oh, yeah. It makes everything better. It'll change the game.

It's basically the animal fries of Phil's. Yeah. Because they won't give me animal fries. Yeah, yeah. It makes everything better. It'll change the game. It's basically the animal fries of Phil's. Yeah. Because they won't give me animal fries. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Animal style. Could I get that tea animal style? And they're like, excuse me? And I was like, well, how about honey and almond milk?

Yeah, the secret menu at Phil's is really limiting. It's just other versions of milk. But yeah, it resulted in me walking in and feeling strangely overwhelmed by the outside world. And then I was looking at the menu at Phil's. And there were so many options, despite the fact that I've never get anything but the Istanbul treat. Right, right, right. I became very angry at myself for only ever getting the Istanbul treat.

And I shared two to three movie tiers. Like a single perfect cascade from one eye. Oh, yeah. While ordering? Yeah, and they charge me full. What's with that? What was the point of even doing it? Yeah, I can definitely...

I mean, I also cried this week, but for a far different reason. It was for a coffee. He laughed real hard at that joke. A couple tears came out. It was his own joke. There weren't actual tears. There were tears from an emoji. Sorry, I don't know what an emotion is.

Yeah, but I know what an emoji is. They're one and the same to me. They're one and the same, and some of them have tears, so I've also cried. Yeah, other than that, pretty solid week. Anybody else that is a cool, leet-speaking gamer like myself, dude, could be pretty excited about Kingdom Come Deliverance. Just came out today. Downloading right now.

Probably what I'm going to do right after the episode. You know the kid's going to dive into that. Live a little bit of Bulgarian medieval lifestyle. Thank you. That's pretty cool. I'm excited for Kingdom Hearts 3. Speaking of Kingdoms. Oh, my days, yeah.

I'm excited for Yu-Gi-Oh! to come back. If Kingdom Hearts 3. Yeah. Well, it's actually happening now. Yeah, they say. Yeah, Well, it's actually happening now. They say. It's Duke Nukem forever until it's out. It is the same as Duke Nukem forever.

You know when Goofy turns up in Duke Nukem forever? You know when Donald Duck says he's ready to kick ass and chew bubblegum? Inappropriate. Yeah, I know. It's super weird. And he's all out of gum. How about you, Sweetman? Yes. how's your week um my week has been good i i'm on vacation and you were in the office today on vacation i was uh i can't find my way home i'll explain i have old habits die hard very bad

vacation i uh i went to new york at the end of i had a show last friday flew to new york immediately after the show um went to hang out with my friend russell and my friend katie uh as well as some of my old roommates and other people that i know who've moved to new york had myself a good time had some incredible food some even more incredible experiences walk me through this food are Are you hitting dim sum? What's this food? Are you eating the pizza? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I had some pizza. Do you have to shake your hand like that when you say pizza? You know, when the frigging guy is like, hey, I'm walking around. Give me the pizza. I'm Christopher Walken here. No, we knew that joke was coming. I can't help but notice neither of you applauded when I did my voice.

That's my channel's voice. Yeah, I was going to say, that's nothing near your Disney's The Black Panther voice. I'm a Black Panther. I'm on here. I'm sorry, did you say you're a Back Panther? Hi, I'm Disney's The Back Panther. I'm black. It's a man with a panther on his back.

Catchphrase is, I'll be black. Hold me closer, tiny panther. Tyler, man, do you have any almost jokes? No, those are all bad. Can we go back to Jarvis' story, please? I was eating. So back to the food I was eating. I ate some amazing pizza, had some Cuban-Chinese fusion.

Whoa. Whoa. Doesn't sound great. What does that look like? It's like a rice dish with chorizo and this really nice marinated chicken on it, and it was pretty dope. Had some beef dumplings that were like... Okay.

It was good. It was all pretty dope had some had some beef dumplings that were like okay it was good it was uh it was all like pretty dope and i ate at one restaurant three times whoa the first time russell and katie took me to this place it's called mile end it's in uh it's in downtown brooklyn uh and it has had like all day breakfast you can get like bagels and uh like sandwiches and stuff it was like really good i had a the best breakfast sandwich i've ever had holy crap yeah wait i know there's more to the story but i i i've heard people say and they're wrong don't get me wrong all right yeah that the the breakfast container genre burrito sandwich pasty etc yeah it has a has a cap because you're just you're basically just bundling together

a bunch of ingredients how much impact can you have on the actual flavor right and you're saying this was the best one yes so what did this and i also have a problem with people who say that because you could say that that's like saying that there's a absolute ceiling to all the ingredients of those things to soup yeah it's like just a liquid so i mean yeah i mean like bread is just bread so really how good i mean like bread is just bread so really how good could it get cheese is just cheese so really how good could it get eggs is it just a really good everything it was just to really get everything it was it was uh uh to describe it it was very simple we had an everything bagel uh okay some that was by you you've already

surpassed my expectations yeah i was picturing just triangular bread. Yeah. Everything bagel, amazing eggs, well seasoned. Everything eggs. Bacon. Most everything bacon. What kind of bacon? American.

Okay. Okay. Is that when it's very thin? No, it's not the British bacon. It's the American bacon. Nor is it Irish bacon or Canadian bacon. Oh my Lord. No, Canadian bacon's not bacon.

I checked its passport. Its nationality was american this pig is for america i don't know um so please leave that in uh it's silence afterwards for a year that's just that's the first 45 minutes of show show. Avocado and cheese, I think. Yeah. And it was just... You were in this fugue state of deliciousness. You didn't know what was going on.

I didn't know what was going on. Oh, is that cheese? I don't know. Yeah. What is this? I don't even... When they're all in tandem, it's just so good. And yeah, it was just a magnificent breakfast sandwich.

And it was just so well done. Everything was like the perfect tenderness uh could bite right through it it was so good that you x3'd the trip you were there every morning after yeah so that so uh i went the first time with uh my friends and then after they went to work that monday i went back and when i went back an amazing thing happened oh what happened jarvis so i'm like sitting down in the back of the restaurant ordered my decaf coffee I'm on decaf now uh yeah interesting uh in my breakfast sandwich I can explain that later but um well the breakfast sandwich is caffeinated yeah well

it's got a lot of coffee beans the other it doesn't sound good well every it's an everything bagel so what do you expect that legally had to be coffee and two people walk in who look kind of familiar and i'm like oh interesting and then they sit at a seat that's like hidden by a glare so i like couldn't really see the detail on their faces you saw a perfect silhouette of two slightly familiar figures yeah yeah well i like as they were walking in i like looked familiar then they walked into a glare and i couldn't see and then they moved after a different couple moved they moved to a table that was near me and i realized

like oh that's yorma from the lonely island which we've discussed on the show how influential the lonely island was to our comedic development and this is a perfect analog to the fact that we are ludicrously influential, Jarvis Johnson. Yes. Every time we bring something up on the show, it materializes in real life. I am... So you texted me about this. Yeah.

And there's more to the story, so I don't want to keep it for too long. But this and Vine, at this point, because I assumed that Jorma was dead and that he came back upon us mentioning him on the podcast, but when we reference things, we can bring them back. That's why I'm here. Tyler May, dead and that he came back upon us mentioning him on the podcast. But when we reference things, we can bring them back.

That's why I'm here. Tyler May, you want to bring anything back? No, I'm afraid. The McRib maybe? It's a very, it's a very big superpower.

I'm scared of it. Yeah. You can, you can work through it for the episode. At the end, you just shout out whatever you want to come back.

That's why I'm here. You guys shouted me out once. Yeah. I'm scared you had passed away. Yeah. This is an hour later. So you see our good friend your word who is now our friend i see i see your ma and i'm like oh snap i text jordan but it's like really early um on the west coast at this point well so i see your ma and he's eating with somebody who i don't recognize um yeah you hit me up at like 6 a.m i hit you up at 6 a.m your time it was 9 a.m my time i was like

your miss here what do i do i gotta go talk to him so i'm i'm like my heart's racing i'm like i continue eating my food i'm like messaging a bunch of my friends i'm like instagramming i'm like what do i do and then the guy who he's eating with takes off his like hat and i see his hair he like shakes out his hair in slow motion in slow motion i realized it's Mike Birbiglia. How could this be? And I'm like, well, because Jorma was closest to me, and his head was covering Mike's head. So I couldn't see until Mike moved his head, and I was like, fuck.

Well, Mike was wearing librarian glasses and a hat. When he took those off, he became so sexy. He was so, yeah, beautiful after that. Now I'm sitting here trying to eat the best breakfast sandwich I've ever had while sitting across from two of my comedy heroes. Now, I've been a fan of each for over 10 years. Anybody who doesn't know, by the way, Mike Pabiglia has three specials on Netflix right now.

Yeah. And five albums. And five albums, but I won't tell you where. You have to find those yourself. God damn, he's amazing. Yeah, he has like three netflix specials and a movie on netflix yeah and i'm so excited for him to come back now that we've referenced him on the show yeah uh well he does have a new hour that he's working on

that's coming out because of the show yeah yeah um so i'm i'm sitting there i like i've now gone into overdrive of just heart thumping, don't know what to do. But I'm like, I have to do something, right? This is such a rare event. I have to try and, I don't know, at least say how much their work has meant to me. Were you going to do something before it was compounded by the Babiglio element? I was probably just going to, in passing, say hi to Jorma and that I was a fan of his work and then get out of there. But I didn't want to alienate the other guy.

And then when I found out that I knew the other guy, I was like, whoa. You were like, whoa, time to alienate Jorma. What up, Mike? Jorma? I misread your name tag. I love Andy's songs. I love Andy Samberg in a solo act. Have you heard of them?

And so as I'm leaving, I finished up and paid. As I'm leaving, I walked over to them and I was like, hey, excuse me for interrupting, but I've been a fan of both of yours for like a really long time. And then I kind of felt like I needed to explain, like I needed to validate. Yeah, I needed to actually prove that I was who I said I was. So I was like, Jorma. They were going to check it if you didn't. I mentioned like the boo, like a very old,

and he was like, the boo, wow. And I was like, Mike, like blah, blah, blah. No idea what you're talking about. Like basically I mentioned, I referenced things that were like 10 years old from each of them. And they were like 10 years old from each of them uh and they were like dude wow like usually someone recognizes both of us no one this never happens like that someone knows both of us that deep like that well or whatever uh and i was like that's cool anyway like happy tuesday i just wanted to like because i don't do photos right because i i think it's just like, they're trying to eat.

It's a little invasive. It's invasive. You don't want them to dilute the sad boys brand. Yeah. Yeah. Um, no, but I was just like,

uh, I just wanted to like, let them know and like wish them a merry, you know, day. And so I did that. And it felt like a good interaction. It felt like a great interaction.

You quit. I mean, I say this only as somebody that's heard it anecdotally. It sounds like you quit at the satiation point. Like, yo, I'm here. I love you. And that's all you need. And I'm sorry.

Yeah, I'm sorry. And my business card. Yeah, yeah, yeah. iTunes review. Yeah, so I did that. Dude, there's nothing like hitting that interaction that's so important to you without like majorly messing everything up. Yeah. Because it could go real wrong,

real fast. Yeah, my main goal with any of these interactions is always to be proud of the interaction. Yeah. I don't want to leave with a bad taste in my mouth. I don't, I would hate to get a photo

at the cost of leaving a bad taste in my mouth about the interaction. Yeah. Because presumably, the main function of a photograph would be, okay, I've immortalized this moment forever photograph the main reason to look at this photograph is to make a music video because i mean every time i do it makes me laugh the main reason to do that is because it immortalizes the moment and thus gives you this kind of crystallized memory right like you have physical evidence of it yeah but if you

really want to immortalize the moment just make it something worth remembering yeah make it so cringy that your part of your brain is like oh i gotta let go of that time that i went up to your room i went like what's up andy fuck um can i have a photo also i i like for me my interactions that i have in the real world with people whose art i enjoy affect my appreciation and enjoyment of their art and so if i had a negative interaction it would make it harder for me to enjoy stuff that i already love yeah so that's the other thing that i feel like you're like walking on eggshells trying to protect your own appreciation of something and we've actually shared experiences like that um i know this isn't very sad boys but i'm not going to say the name of these people because we still interact with them.

But there are like, so for context, my job at the company we both work at is I mainly work with artists and creators. Right. And a lot of those artists and creators I grew up really enjoying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or being heavily influenced by them. And in a few scan instances, we have both met up with some of them or bumped into them at the office or something like that and both just gone like, very important this meant a lot to me we're engaging we're interacting you're welcome that was me yeah that time i made so much uh to me for you to sleep on my couch and now i'm in your dirty socks right next to my bed yeah i mean i bought you like a two dollar candy bar once i I think. Yeah, that was nuts. That pays for it.

Yeah, it literally was nuts. Yeah, nuts in it. It was just nuts. There wasn't even candy attached. What do you think candy is? It was just a bag of almonds. It was on sale, okay? A homeless guy gave it to me around the corner, and he said it was good.

You brought me an empty walnut shell. And you said, this is nuts. And that was your joke. This isn't even nuts. This is the absence of nuts. But I committed real hard. I yelled it out. I said, this is nuts. this is nuts and that was your joke this isn't even nuts this is but i committed real hard i yelled it out i said this is nuts and then i gave it to you and you were gone for eight months yeah that's true that was the last we saw of tyler may but we've had a bunch of interactions

with like that and and i i'll admit there are a few creators and through no fault of their own only through like the style of interaction we've had that i struggle to still watch and enjoy their art now oh yeah it's just like a few things where i'm like my emotional separation from you as a human being was what allowed me to absorb this art most effectively and now that i see you as a three-dimensional human even just a little bit i just it's not funny to me anymore it's like yeah yeah there's like um i there's a little bit of um social anxiety that i get when i consume the art of somebody who i've had a really negative interaction with yeah and that's the worst so that's kind of probably why people say don't meet your heroes but uh but this went very well this went very well and you know once then

it which is pretty rare and it's also cool with their friends and i have fun inside two birds and one burrito and i was like eavesdropping on their conversation a little bit friends uh and i was like a fun insight two birds in one burrito and i was like eavesdropping on their conversation a little bit before that and i like heard some of the stuff they were talking about and i was just like well this is cool did you add your headphones in acting like you're listening to something else oh you know i did holding a big newspaper with two holes yeah it was one of the situations where i was listening to my phone. Sad boys, because you're a narcissist. I was just checking it to see how funny I am. Yeah, and I showed it to them.

Hey, rate this on iTunes real quick. Could you subscribe? This joke won't be that funny without the rest of the episode, so I advise you listen to the whole thing. So I did one of those things where I'm listening to my phone, and then I just unplugged my headphones and just like, you know what I mean? That's the closest a millennial comes to vaulting over a wall

into a prison to free someone. So as I'm leaving... Weird analogy. Highly specific. How was your childhood? I don't know, October of 2015. Specifically at California State Penitentiary.

Yeah, just to, you know, break out a friend. To break out, I don't know, Steve, because he's my dealer. Theoretically. Theoretically. It's like hypothetically speaking. But the nice like icing on the cake was as I'm leaving and they think that I'm out of earshot, I hear them talking about the interaction.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And they're like, and then I think they're just basically, like Jorma's saying like something about the Venn diagram of like that happening. And it seemed like they had a positive interaction. And I was like, fuck yeah. That like brightened up my day. I would totally ship them as friends too.

Absolutely. Their brand is in perfect alignment. And so the rest of the New York trip was great. Shot a video over there just landed last night had a minor scare that i wasn't going to make the flight oh yeah we'll be through this yes you you you hit us up very quickly we're planning a rough episode time yeah and you send us a message yeah uh it was like i don't know if i'm gonna make my flight and it was instead of running you decided to send us that message. Yeah, it was like, I don't know if I'm going to make my flight. So instead of running, you decided to send us that message. Which is very considerate.

Yeah, because one does not simply run 11 miles to the airport. Oftentimes you enlist the help of one of those four-wheeled machines. A plane. Sorry, I'm dumb. A plane with four wheels. Or even one of those giant metal track vehicles a young train a young train a young train plane yeah um and uh so i was on the train and it was delayed actually and so i had allocated i'd allocated time to get to the airport but i didn't and everyone had told me that the um

the train is always on time and so i I got on and it actually experienced some delays. And so I didn't actually know because I had to take a train and then get to a place with an air train, which is just the term for – That's a plane, my friend. That's what you call a plane, right? No, it's just like a raised – it's like an elevated track. And usually it's like at airports. They have them. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I had to get on one of those and then take it to the terminal. And all of the estimates from Google Maps were saying that I was going to get there after the door probably closed on the flight. And so I was like, I just have to hope. And then I didn't have a gate on my ticket so i didn't know where my gate was and so i needed to learn that also while in a fevered rush to get to it working on empty yeah yeah and so i figure out where the gate is and of course it's in the back of the airport i i get to the terminal and then i realize it's in the back of the terminal with

like 40 gates i i don't think anybody has ever been late for a flight that wasn't at the back of a terminal. Yeah. They like stack backwards as the planes leave. Yeah. I'm like, why couldn't it have been the one that I'm right next to? Why does it have to be the one that's literally a mile walking away? That was really inconsiderate of them. Yeah.

And so I'm like, i'm like running i'm sweating i'm wearing a jack i'm wearing two jackets because it's really cold new york um and i haven't had a chance to take them off and so i'm wearing two jackets i've got a duffel bag on a backpack on i'm running you know those like little fast platforms yeah yeah they're like people are like stacking into those who are just standing in all of them no good so i'm like like walk running past them and it's like i just keep passing all these people who are just standing and i'm like i that was a speed boost for me i could have like gotten those are the mushrooms that's one of those little square boosters

you had to drift on your own and don't worry i'm fully aware this is the longest week story of all time but i am i'm basically run to the back of the um i run to the back of the terminal i get to the gate uh they like let me through there's no one there everyone's boarded but me um and i made it on the flight and then we actually had a little bit more time uh once i got on the plane but i'm just sweating a ton i turned on both fans to my face you you were considerate enough to send us the universal language of here's a picture of my sweaty face to indicate that i got onto the plane yeah yeah uh and um and then one of the flight attendants they were starting to close up the overhead bins one of the flight attendants, they were starting to close up the overhead bins.

One of the flight attendants was like, can someone help me with this? And so I get up and I start helping the flight attendants. And like multiple flight attendants are like using me to like close the things and like maneuver things. And everybody's just like, wow, this guy's super helpful. And they're like, I'm going to give you a free drink. And I'm just like, I'm just happy to be on the plane. Like, I just, whatever I can do to like pay back karma right now.

This guy rules. Let him fly the plane. There was one particularly hard, like, suitcase that was really hard to get in. And when we got it in, the plane clapped. Not the passengers.

It was a slow clap. No, the plane took its wings and it slapped them together. It made the flight a nightmare because they were dented. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, they destroyed the wings. We had to be playing and get on another plane. I'm recording from New York.

But yeah, that was cool. And then I got some free drinks from the flight attendant for helping. Nice. And I cried watching School of Rock. Yes! The part where he's like, Chalot, you got a bass? Yeah.

He gets me every time. Every time. That's the part where everyone cries. That point where he's talking about rent. That really gets me. I once got a yellow card in soccer for quoting that movie. Sorry.

Yes. Walk me through. Yeah. So you're playing soccer in America, which first foot football thank you foo foo to ball and what's what's the main song that he sing get get out say something like that yeah so I just like the Sims you know those big like diamonds above their head? And sometimes the diamond will spin with increased efficiency to indicate that they're thinking or something.

Sure. Jarvis just... Step off! Yeah, it was in his soul. For context, School of Rock is a movie that I watched about a hundred times when I was in sixth grade. You would not step off. And I hadn't seen it in that long.

Yeah. And I wanted to watch it again to see like oh you haven't seen it since you're in six yeah but i watched it for one summer like every single day oh wow i have a lot of connections to that movie i got i got a yellow card i also got called the cops came once when i was watching that movie you have any like pleasant memories i mean but you got called the cops came once like hey we came uh we had some drinks for you uh but you look busy so you're not hardcore unless you live hardcore yeah i i kicked the ball away and i was like step out as but just like that

because i was in puberty sure voice cracking like now where you are a chill man yeah and then he stopped the game and gave me a yellow card because you were being aggressive and it was my dad

now they stopped the game and they gave you tickets to see the band yellow card they gave me the band yellow card I know went to Vans Warped Tour the next day

be careful with this yeah young Tyler May I saw you painfully wince when Jarvis referenced those tracks at airports that move forward i feel like you might have a hot take on those the oh yeah no they're just like um like superpowers right yeah so whenever like you think it is a speed boost like you're saying so every time i get on one of those i just like imagine one of those not not just mushrooms but

like the golden mushroom because they're long enough and you're just like imagine one of those not not just mushrooms but like the golden mushroom because they're long enough and you're just like infinite boost how is that not a thing outside of airports yeah i know i mean expensive as hell but there's actually one on i forget the location but there's a part there's a bridge over to a mall from a different mall in central london that's what central london's like um life is the moments in between malls um but it's uh it has one of those and the joy you see on people's faces and bear in mind this is London where joy is not really a priority um it's it's like seeing your teacher outside of school I can walk on one of these things and I'm not afraid that I'm gonna miss a flight I uh I feel like um have you ever walked on one that

wasn't working oh yeah the feeling is like when you can't for the life of you put your headphones into the headphone jack. Yeah. And they keep getting ripped out of your ear. You keep missing it. That is the putting a USB in upside down of real life. So if there is any homework for listeners this week it's to watch or re-watch school of rock yeah i i cried twice on the plane what part did you cry yeah when your cry points i cried at uh uh the climax like when the parents are like um are are moved by the performance of the kids

where he says your son rocks he's like yours too man yeah exactly you remember a lot more quote you'll remember a lot of quotes. I love this movie. I've watched it several times. One had the cops coming in and stopping me from watching it. I was watching it that many times. It was so loud? Or what's that? No, yeah.

I went to a park and I set up a projector with a few friends and had it going against like, it was like an amphitheater. So I just plugged it in. The cops were kicking out some kids who were being loud, playing hide-and-seek in a park. They were like, sorry. That's pretty cool that you got that, though, but we have to kick you out since we're kicking out these people. And it turns out that those people were people that we knew. They were the Sarah Silverman of Friends.

I would prefer if we didn't shoot on Sarah Silverman, more on the character. The role she played. Everybody doesn't know what a movie is she okayed that role she opted in and honestly Tom Hiddleston thought he was a nice guy why did he do all that stuff in New York with the Avengers

that was so mean he's so mean to his brother Thor my friend Thor the actor Thor who plays thor in the avengers um and and yeah so that was my flight uh very emotional experience yeah it's been a long week do you think your crying was all influenced by like the stress surrounding the flight oh no it's all just i'm so happy for them oh like no external influence all of my crying was uh i'm so happy for these kids and then i

watched a hamilton tv documentary and i was just like what are you doing to yourself i'm just so happy for everyone you don't have the emotional juice to handle no it's a play we should go watch that sometime school of rock yeah school of rock is play it's also like an actual school like they started schools of rock for that i'm i'm seeing school of rock the play uh soon so there is a television program in the uk i don't know if it made it over here uh it lasted only one season i think you'll understand why uh called rock school oh yeah i feel like that's copyrighted now you two didn't go to film school but if you look, the name's actually quite similar to School of Rock. The essential premise of School of Rock is that Gene Simmons, the one, the only, long-tongued demon boy Gene Simmons, heads to a school in the UK to teach a selection of innocent youths to play metal.

To play, like, rock and metal music. The only issue is, is that part of the magical realism of filmmaking Is that you can create an idealized world You can say yeah he goes to this school And it turns out most of the kids kind of know how to play an instrument And they're just really into the idea of it And screw this stuffy school Let's do our own thing Yeah because in School of Rock the kids are all musically talented Because they go to music class

They're a little bit moody but then they overcome that And then they're rock stars In the case of rock school They're not good because why would they be why would you take an just a selection of 30 people there's not like a decent chance that one of them will be rock star quality material and in this show they want like 10 of them to be in in the movie school of rock the one class of kids has all the components of a band. Yeah. And they're all good at their instruments. Yeah. Thank God there's only one drummer.

Yeah. That's pure luck. Damn. Thumbs up to School of Rock. Go see that movie. Thumbs up to School of Rock. And watch Rock School because it's just bad. Hey, what's up?

My name's Segway. And I'm going to move us straight into our main topic for the night. Nice, dude. Thanks, man. And that's depression. And the reason we're talking depression is largely because we have an authority. We tyler may i'm an authority i'm just so sad that i'm authority on depression no he's he's a trained police officer so we just have an authority in the room this pig is from america no i would say you're something of an authoritarian mental illness at least no but jarvis more so than myself certainly you have a show all about it and you're training to

be a consular all right yeah that's fair um so i thought a healthy way to kick off would be for each of us to go around and talk a little bit about our individual experiences with depression um either personally or externally people around you that have had it uh when you've had it and why and how you've dealt with it uh when you've had it and why and how you've dealt with it that kind of thing um and i say we dive in with our authority the authority the sports authority tyler may yeah i think it's good to bring to bring the sad to the boys if you guys haven't realized that this this podcast isn't isn't really sad yeah has anybody brought that up yeah no i haven't heard that in any episode.

I've never heard that. I've never heard anybody say that. That's all feedback I've been desperate to receive constantly on Twitter. So I'm here to up the sad and down the boys. Yeah. Oh, that made sense. Bring down the boys.

Do you do that every time you make a coherent point? No, I'm just surprised that a joke holy shit mom i told the joke um but yeah every single time i make it home safe but as we're enjoying ourselves let's let's bring it real down real fast and talk about depression which is actually a great thing to talk about and something i actually genuinely enjoy talking about even though sometimes it takes a lot out of me i think it's definitely something worthwhile that anybody should be free to talk about not just those who struggle with depression or who've had extreme severe depression

to a hyperclinical state which I have at one point not to be like yo my sadness is cooler than your sadness because I've been real sad but I feel like anybody he's glowing he might be going super saiyan

I am the super saiyan of depression super saiyan alright can we end on that He might be going super saiyan. I am the super saiyan of depression. Super saiyan. Super saiyan. All right. Saiyan 2018. Can we end on that? That's really good. Oh my god, audition takeoff.

But yeah, so anybody who has felt real sad, everybody is somewhat of an authority on depression because everybody's been depressed at some point. That's a question I have for you, actually. A question I have for both of you. For a teensy bit of additional context, I know that many people, myself included, have at times felt a little bit guilty over what feels like an adoption of the term depression.

But it seems to flicker back and forth. I'm never really crystal clear on whether or not I'm using it appropriately as a non-diagnosed individual so i tend to stray away from the word uh but i don't know if that's appropriate is depression simply a state of being a self-diagnosable thing or does it have to be a more medical environment for it to be valid i think it depends on how you're presenting it um as far as just like i feel like it's very valid for literally anybody to say like i'm depression but i think it's it carries a depression oh that's what i say i just say guys

i am depression i am depression you were an inside out yeah i'm sorry that's the one they weren't allowed to talk about dark night was about right you were simply raised yeah i think it's fair to say uh for anybody that like i'm i'm feeling depressed or i'm depressed one thing that's good for people to to like practice is start saying things like i am feeling depressed or like i i have sad i'm feeling this rather than like, I am depressed because you're associating yourself with negative feelings, which has certain implications. Like I am like, I know this was a bit, but like, I have depression by myself. Yeah. When I've been in the most worst states of like suicidal spirals, like it turned from like, I hate to like i am hatred those are like literal thoughts of just like i am hatred i am monster i am other i am unlovable

i am so um i wanted to say two things one is to say is that I feel legendary. So I wanted to say two things. One is to say that it's really good that you pointed out the feeling aspect of things because depression as a condition that can be diagnosed is typically chronic, right? It is possible for someone to be depressed and have that be a rare event and it is also possible for someone to regularly

have those thought spirals and feel like out of control of their own uh feeling um or out of control of their own mood um out of control of their own thoughts one thing that i wanted to say about sad boys and you had alluded tyler to it not being a fun topic to talk about but i think that this show is all about making those topics more accessible and making it not making those topics not have to be so they're serious topics but like we can discuss those topics in a in a way that is not as much of a downer even though they might yeah it might be a sad thing yeah you don't have to be so scared to talk about things light-hearted and that's a point that i feel like we're going to talk about a little bit is just using comedy as a coping mechanism which if you've listened

to this podcast for more than two and a half minutes you can clearly see in both of these sad boys yeah there is a two and a half minute cut off in every episode we decide to start making jokes there's that initial two and a half minutes of radio silence if you listen i believe cuts out if you listen to the 231 point there's a loud beep and that's when the comedy can begin beginning now um but yeah that's why i like the sad boys a lot and it's like i've said it to a few friends um i have a few of those uh contrary to popular belief for now yeah until this episode comes out and they hear my opinions on school of rock um but i've i've said to people like for those who heard an abridged nobody heard anything i uh we we talked at length about school of rock and i had to make an editor's choice a brave and selfless decision because man i was not expecting us to all resonate that hard on

school of rock yeah uh we'll see what becomes of that we'll see what becomes of that but yeah that's why i like the sad boys a lot and i've said to a few friends on multiple occasions like man like i'm pissed off at like how much i enjoy this podcast and that i have friends doing and making not only like funny, enjoyable things, but like good things that are connected to just like valuable, like commendable things. And I feel like we have an overlap of goal with our show. Essentially, you guys have like the same central goal as Mr. Fields does as far as just like talking more about difficult topics

and not being afraid to talk about them one and then making them more normalized and kind of getting around rid of this stupid stigma that we have surrounding not only difficult topics in general but especially mental health types of topics that's the peculiar thing about normalization a lot of the time though and not just related to things that need to be normalized but really just any point of like relative enjoyment or relative engagement is you can say like oh man i really enjoy school of rock and then a couple people around you go like i really like school of rock as well and you suddenly go like oh it's so safe to talk about how much i like school of rock right and i think forums like this uh which one of the reasons i really like doing the show and listening

to shows that generally address this kind of stuff is that if you explicitly state at some point either like in the name of the show or just like the premise of the show hey this is a safe space this is like a space where we talk about this kind of thing and that's the goal then it can feel nice to just be like huh I'm just going to come in and talk about

how I cried at Phil's today. That's like not a thing I would say normally in the office or to friends. I mean that's how i open up all interactions it's a funny joke about specifically crying at phil's yeah yeah only that's only where i cry every direction i know that's why i have to go to san francisco so often because i'm just holding it in i'm like i gotta get to phil's i can't make a friend yeah i wanted to talk a bit about the stigma surrounding mental health because I feel like we're at a time now where more than ever it's allowed to engage in mental health. But that's kind of a function of the bubble that we live in. Yeah.

I like I am from a community where like mental health is not, you know, ever discussed. Right. And it's a privilege to be in the position that we are now i just wanted to get both of your experiences about the stigma surrounding mental health as you were like growing up because i'm sure that my parents and the people who raised me struggled with things related to their mental health, but it's not something I ever heard about because it's meant to be invisible and it's almost a sign of weakness if you ever call attention to it.

Because it's so tied directly to who you are. Yeah. Yeah, like you've, by acknowledging it, oh, you lost. Yeah. You failed the mental health game. Yeah. If you keep it a secret it doesn't exist

and parents who want to look like superheroes where nothing is able to go wrong on their watch can't really afford to show that weakness and vulnerability to the kids at least in their minds even though they really should uh but jordan you might have a more interesting take on this which being an immigrant and from the motherland who told you my greatest secrets all right um yeah i'm from the motherland uh i'm from the great capital white north like wakanda yeah i'm from the great black north um and you you are a back panther hi i'm i'm the disney's back panther um but, I'm the Disney's back panther. But yeah, when I was growing up, I grew up in sort of a bit of a hippie town, to be honest.

I mean, we've talked about Stroud in the past, but Stroud is this weird conflation of ultra-white, semi-conservative, like traditional backgrounds, a lot of people from money, that kind of thing. And then suddenly this ultra-liberal, ultra-cool, ultra-astrology-focused hippie tone it's it's very peculiar interesting makes for an interesting uh town to visit maybe a slightly stressful town to live in kind of a peculiar place to be in for too long but uh strata fascinating place and as a result the approach to mental illness is very candid to a point that's the way i always thought of it it's like

you can be incredibly open about the fact that i suffer from x y and z and there was a lot of identification of i am that was a very common thing like i am depressed i am bipolar these are the things that i am and the things that define me up until that more traditional right-leaning interpretation of mental illness suddenly starts to take hold because that is like the uh the default it's exactly it's a default that's what most people were trained to believe yeah i i lost count of the number of times i had friends that would be struggling with with mental illnesses and then their parents fully supportive maybe in some point in some way uh reconciling that ideal with the fact that they felt that way at some point and going yeah no i know what you mean and

and you're depressed and we're gonna get to get you treatment. It'll be great. And then just hitting that satiation point where you're like, oh, come on. It's time to go to school. Stop being grumpy. Chin up, lad. Like the classic thick upper lip. What am I trying to remember? Yeah, stiff upper lip.

Thick upper lip. That sounds very violent. Big, stiff, incredibly thick, metallic upper lip. Yeah, there was always that interesting conflict between ideals. I don't know if that's an English thing in general. It was certainly a thing where I grew up. But I was wondering if the two of you, Isale, you're from the Midwest.

Would you identify as the Midwest? Yes. Okay. And you're from the South, Jarvis. That's right. Now, I'm curious. In my mind, I don't know a lot about the political distinctions between those two. They kind of bundle them together a little bit.

They're pretty similar. I think the South is just a little bit more racist. Is that right, Jarvis? Are you more racist than Tyler? Damn straight. That was unsettlingly clear. All the other noise in the room stopped I saw a fly fall from the sky

Jumping straight to Young Jarvis Yes I'm curious Partially about what I just said around like Hey what was the interpretation And to what degree was it accepted But also what was your experience And did you ever vocalize

That you may struggle with stuff like that When you were there? Or was that more of a West Coast thing? I never learned to vocalize anything about my mental health until I was an adult. Post-college? During college? I would say post-college, to be honest. But I was more aware of what might be going on in my brain here's a question yeah when when do you think you were introduced to the concept in general

of like mental health um because like it's a it's it is a narrative to like an extent and if you're not aware with like these actually being problems in general how can you do anything about them so i think that for me i was lucky because in in high school and in college i was around like pretty pretty liberal like the town that i'm from in the south is like the bluest dot in florida it's like it's a college town a around a huge like school like hugely liberal school um and i was exposed to a lot of the dialogue around mental health but i was also i was simultaneously in a community where going to therapy was somebody who like that was oh you're in the loony bin if you're if you're like if you're like seeking any treatment for any mental health thing and so there is there's a heavy stigma about if you are at the point of

like going to therapy there's something seriously wrong when the way i see therapy now is like something that everyone should do yeah uh yeah and brushing your teeth like brushing your teeth and i think the way that i got there was honestly with like podcasts and books yeah um i mean shit talk about normalization yeah if you're aspiring to be an artist an artist in like podcasting or writing or something like that and you see your heroes vocalize that exact feeling yeah i honestly would not have sought treatment for my adhd if it weren't for reading hannah hart's book actually. Like I borrowed it from Mayuko. And that was just a year ago, right? Yeah, that was just a year ago.

And so that's like, I've only started going to therapy about a year ago and started seeking like treatment for ADHD about a year ago. But that was, I was more aware of mental health and like treatment options available. And it was more of an errand that I needed to do at that point.

It wasn't like a mental hurdle that I needed to get over. It was more like, oh, I have insurance. I have like all these things in place. It's now time to tackle. Right. Procrastination is the only thing holding me from getting treatment at this point. Right. All right.

Actually, I'm curious. It's kind of a follow on from that question because you referenced the idea of misinterpretation around mental illness and misinterpretation around diagnoses in general. Yeah. around mental illness and misinterpretation around diagnoses in general yeah i'm interested from the two of your perspectives it could be something now or it could be something in your past i prefer if it was now i think that's more fun is there anything that uh either of the two of you know is wrong but you still believe on a subconscious or unconscious level surrounding mental illness something that crops up frequently not even necessarily when you're in a negative place yeah something that even i i like have those things where like when people talk about like struggling with anxiety more specifically like you hear it a lot from like high school kids and such who are very much like in the know now

about mental this is a really good thing, but leads to a lot of people self-diagnosing and self-identifying and also literally being diagnosed. And so like subconsciously, sometimes I still think like, oh, they don't know what like real anxiety is. You're a poser. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the equivalent of not being a real skater for mental illness. One important thing about mental health is you have to take someone at their word. Yeah. And one thing that I always struggle with is if someone shares with me that they're dealing with something, I want to believe them.

But in my mind, it seems so easy to dismiss because when you're empathizing, you're just reflecting your own state of being. Yeah. And so it's like I'm really feeling down. I don't think I can leave bed today. And I'm like, well, I can leave bed. So that's got to be what parents are doing, right? When they're like dismissing their kids. And I see where that comes from.

But you have to – depression and mental health is so personal and it's so specific to a individual's experience that you can't that it's difficult to communicate and you have to just believe someone i think of it much in the way of pain right like you you can't communicate how it feels to hurt you can only give a metaphor, right? Yeah, and you can give limitations, examples of limitations. Like, I can't walk. I broke my shin, and it really, really hurts to walk. But at no point do you go like, I broke my shin, and it really, really hurts to walk.

It's like, I can walk. I've been walking all day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a little bit easier for those very um external like injuries yeah but when it's like i love you and you're like all right but like what is that and it's like my love for you burns with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns oh i got it now all right it makes way more sense which i believe is a quote from the Fairly Oddparents. You are absolutely correct. School of Rock and Fairly Oddparents.

Oh my god, I think I just fell through a wormhole. Everybody's wearing Heelys. And they have Fairy Godparents. You're right, my brother. Like the early 2000s. Very relatable. We all had Heelyios and fairy godparents um i i i just think that we don't we haven't really developed a language to communicate with one another about mental health because it's so the dialogue around it is set is so much in its infancy that we are using very blunt tools to

engage in the discussion. Perspective is incredibly important. And I think it's also really important for people to not be so sure of themselves, both as that parent who says, just get out of bed. And also that kid who's like i don't know what's happening um that's that's a phrase that's okay to say you can say right i don't know what's happening but something is wrong and i can't i can't understand it fully i think i might need help and also from that parent to be like i can't possibly know what you're going through so maybe something's probably up let's let's take steps to be able to figure out what might be wrong i love that just vocalize i'm not really sure yeah you aren't yeah and you you don't like validate or invalidate your feelings by knowing what they are yeah i feel

like i came to i had like a come to jesus point where i'm just like no yeah it's okay to not know things it's just like i had a similar moment like with you who are like hey can we just push back this brunch like an hour i'm just like yeah wait you can do that you can just say hey can we meet a little bit later and like people can agree and do that wow i have had so much anxiety for no reason explain to me how because the brunch was gonna be at this time the brunch was at 11 a.m and now you're saying it's gonna be at 12 p.m and how did you did that like cost money how did you do that man you make a fantastic point like is there's this bizarre assumption that unlike a physical illness and we should clarify

they are synonymous they are not neither is option yes Each are just the impact of various Carbon atoms hitting other carbon atoms And the problem is One of them is largely invisible Yeah But like if you were to Suddenly get extreme pain Like if you were to just suddenly suffer from scoliosis

And you just fell to the ground Oh god which part of my back is it Get up unless you can identify which part of my back is it? They're like, get up, unless you can identify which part of your spinal column is hurt. Like, no, I just can't walk. Like, that's the thing that's bad. I think a core problem is when people, like, make knowing things synonymous with being in control.

And so they're not willing to say, I don't know something, because that means that they're weak or that they don't have a sense of control and that's where the problems arise and stigmatization around these things happen because it's it's hard to understand psychiatrists don't even understand what's happening a lot of it is guessing games because the brain is so complex that's why some people have a job that is that yeah if it was completely doable by yourself it wouldn't be a job and and it's kind of a uh a practice that's reinventing itself like every

50 years at this point like none of the stuff like we've completely shed everything from the past yeah we're not strapping people into chairs and yeah shocking them with or or poking ice picks through their nose to like swish around their brain which we make fun of that but like functionally speaking we're basically as close we're just like i don't know this seems to work yeah yeah um and i i think that a lot of the a lot of the problem lies in the fact that our means for describing and discussing these things are are so limited uh kind of like what jordan was saying earlier, like when you fall on the ground

because something's wrong with your back, but instead of falling on the ground, you just sit in a chair and you can't describe what's happening with your back. And it's just like, hey, Jordan, what's up? And it's just like, I don't know. Then it's like, that's no excuse. It's as if you fell on the ground and it was like, Jordan, get up. And he's like, I can't know. Then it's like, that's no excuse. It's as if you fell on the ground and it was like, Jordan, get up.

And he's like, I can't. And it's like, that's no excuse. It has to be a base instinctual function, right? To try and judge whether somebody's lack of movement or action is valid. Because why else? What is that compulsion? My unpopular, like the thing that i unconsciously believe i think we all do is the same it's like oh i just can't get out of bed and there's a small part of me that wants

to go you sure yeah it's the same part of people that ask me if i'm really celiac yeah yeah like i don't eat gluten yeah but do you like like because you really can't like why what is making you ask that yeah i think it's just our natural tendency to want to understand things so we simplify things as you can't like why don't you just try because we like to make things black and white when everything is pretty great we would like to assume that you're lying yeah like that would make it a lot more comfortable safer and less terrifying place because if you the person that is making it up is not capable of having that feeling it's definitely not going to happen to me i'm safe you didn't get attacked by the saber-toothed tiger i'm fine there definitely is one around so how about you jordan

like what is your unpopular thought so my unpopular thought i've been interrogating a lot more lately actually because of you uh because i really respect that we've talked about this in the past but i really respect the approach that you've taken i respect the approach of both of you uh because i really respect that we've talked about this in the past but i really respect the approach that you've taken i respect the approach of both of you but uh particularly recently jarvis around addressing your mental illness not only identifying it but like attacking it proactively right um i'm not very proactive i'll be honest it's something yeah you're real bad at that i'm real bad you should be completely candid it's something that i it's kind of a an oraboris of of grumpiness because i don't want to feed the grumpiness and then by not feeding it it eats its own tail i'm just annoyed we discussed

this in the guilt episode where it's like yeah i feel guilty because yeah and then to reverse the trilogy the depression leads to the guilt and the guilt leads to burnout yeah paradise 2007 um but yeah that's that's a place i get locked into a lot and as a result i personally still hold this weird stigma around the idea of getting therapy yeah it's of two parts and i welcome the two of you to completely invalidate these because they come up all the time i think about it quite often uh one and this is pure arrogance i assume they won't get it yeah yeah yeah you want to figure out me? Yeah.

Nice try. I'm far too complex and interesting. Right. That comes up a lot. Like the idea of having to explain and contextualize all this stuff. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure it's doable.

People do it all the time. Right. And then the second component is this unproven skepticism that it doesn't work yeah which at this point in my life i have nothing but abundant evidence that it does yeah yeah like but i i'm not gonna brush my teeth i've never seen it work on anyone else so i i uh i i would like to respond to the first point at least um hit me up so i had a very similar thought and a very similar feeling because i think we want to feel unique like when i when i've been in the depths of like negative thought spirals i'm thinking i'm the only one who

experiences this is a problem that is unique to me in my experience um and then i uh i mean to be completely frank i was going through a breakup that was like particularly hard on me and i was also afraid of going to therapy or not afraid but like didn't want to had barriers i had barriers for like going to therapy and so i i don't remember how but i ended up reading um this book uh called feeling good the new mood therapy which is a book about um cbt which is cognitive behavioral therapy and the one thing that blew my mind about the like they don't get it problem is that in that book it like described my own mental fallacies in words and i was like fuck it's like in my i'm the only one experiences this it was like i go well i feel like this and this and this and they're

like oh you mean four you mean number four you mean number four in the list of the most common logical fallacies about this thing and then you go like no no but i also feel this you turn the page to reveal and it's like it's like you're probably thinking but i also feel this like that literally happened to me when i was reading this book and it made me it made me realize that i'm not special it made me realize that i am like i obviously we're all special but like most of us yeah looking directly at talamé so i i was humbled by by reading this book and i didn't even finish the book again sorry the book is feeling good in the new mood therapy essentially it's like this seminal work on cognitive behavioral therapy

where like this uh doctor who worked at stanford um psychologist guy uh uh kind of invent cbt and and then like in the 80s and then reprinted the book and the forward i'm reading it and it's like it's it's not pseudoscience it's actual science like they're basically like look uh we've done many clinical trials and here are some of the results like and it's like oh uh uh antidepressants like if you have like mild cases of depression if you have mild instances of depression in in these instances we found that cognitive behavioral therapy is able to maintain the gains in net happiness. Because you can take a – it's like a questionnaire that essentially scores you in terms of spectrum stuff. The gains in essentially retraining, the core tenet of cognitive behavioral therapy is that your brain and your neural pathways kind of just go the way that they've always gone. So when this event happens to you, you always want to respond in a certain way. Sure.

Or when you feel a certain way, it triggers a certain thought, and therefore that can get started on like a negative thought spiral, right? And the core tenet of CBT is that that is learned. Like a lot of that is at least. And, and you can, though it's difficult and requires many like repetitions, you can carve back that, uh, uh, those instincts. You can carve back that pathway into a different way. So it's like, if every time I'm about to go into my like depths, I realize I'm doing number four. For me, it was like illuminating and kind of like pulled me out of my well. Now I don't feel like I'm experiencing this unique thing because I know it's number four. So it almost feels like less genuine to experience. I can almost call it out more easily because, you know, we were talking earlier about how difficult it is to discuss depression. The fact that there are labels for the things that I was feeling and I could go, well, there it is.

I can call it out. The uniqueness came with it a power that was stripped away when I found out that a man in the 80s had written it all down in a book. Like, there's a certain power to that. When you turn the page, you know, like, well, there it all is. I thought that, wow, wow, really? The whole thing? All of it? Even my name?

Funnily enough, I'm glad Tyler's here because for the life of me, I can never remember what this thing is called. And you already know what I'm talking about. But there is, I historically have not subscribed that much to astrological signs or anything along those lines. I think it's interesting. Nothing conclusive, but there was... You specifically put me onto a particular subset of personality types. What did you call this?

It's called the Enneagram. The Enneagram as in, look at all these things. You can have any of them. This is the Enneagram, and the reason I highlight this is not because I haven't done nearly enough research into it to know whether there's any validity do a whole episode on this they're really interesting i'm interested to hear your opinion javas because we're gonna do this on the scan amount of research that i've done they are uh theoretically backed by cbt that's like the philosophy at least or the theoretical philosophy behind the development of many of

these types and the reason i mention it is because you talking there reminded me that Tyler highlighted one of them he walked through them for a little context Tyler stays with me when he's in SF I don't know if we talked about that Tyler is basically my son my sweet little boy who sleeps on my couch and plays groovy rock and roll

it's called smash mouth but the thing that you highlighted to me you read one to me that was so bizarrely specific yeah particularly around the self-medication elements of dealing with those particular personality traits that i thought to myself like it was very very nuanced i just thought to myself okay at the very very very least enough other people have experienced the exact same stimuli that it's needed to be written down yeah at the most we have stumbled onto some kind of medical revelation and

i am just one of eight types of human yeah yeah but worst case scenario i'm incredibly arrogant to assume that the the series of traits that i've established as jordan cobe's exclusive brand are just personal interpretation right and wrap up the enneagram a little bit the enneagram is just briefly a idea that there are nine basic personality types and every personality type can have a little wing from different personality types that are next to theirs and it's all very interesting and you should look up the enneagram or go to the enneagram institute and look at learn and just look at the type descriptions. There's nine different type descriptions if you're interested in, and we might do an episode at some point either on Sad Boys or Mr. Feels kind of about this because each,

the unique thing about the Enneagram is it takes into account the fluidity of personality. So it gives you nine levels of this is what you're likely to look at at your worst on most unhealthy level and this is what you are like at your most healthy level because a lot of things like myers-briggs which kind of has no backing or standard to it for context myers-briggs is was not created by psychologists it was created by two random people and it is not based at all on science and somehow we got to this point with yeah and so the enneagram is not necessarily like super scientifically backed and it's not meant to be it's just used as a tool for empathy to know that there's other people who have different basic fears and different basic desires that make them act differently yeah so we should understand that people are different and treat them.

And I think that's a perfect segue into a thing that I wanted to highlight and then ask the two of you about, which is that part of the reason I think I've developed this negative stigma associated with therapy and a few tangentially related things, I have the same, sorry, I should say, I had the same skepticism when I was much younger around medication as well like i was like no i'll figure it out yeah stiff brass metal powerful upper lip everybody goes for antidepressants yeah everybody's so scared these days pc gone mad whereas like with you know a little bit of retrospect i can see that that was just a

philosophy built out of ignorance for the main part and i think ignorance is the thing i want to highlight in that while i might not subscribe really actively to astrological signs to the enneagram to anything there's nothing wrong with accumulating knowledge there's nothing wrong with going to a therapy session it's not like you go to the one i say this is somebody that's been avoiding it really actively take this with a big chunk Of hypocrisy because I've been avoiding Therapy for a really long time But don't be afraid to just try it Try anything just accumulate

Enough information so that you can At the very least make the Authoritative decision that you don't Want to do XYZ I don't want to take medication But I have done the research to understand why I don't I don't want to go into therapy But I tried it and it didn't connect with me like don't just assume that yeah yeah it's that i can't language that is super unhealthy for literally anybody to use and maybe like you

literally can't do something right now but when you say i can't do something like i can't get out of bed or like i can't hang out, like I just can't right now. Like it might be true, like right now that you can't do something. But when you say I can't, you're literally eliminating all possibility of cans. And it's something that should be more nuanced and being like, I really don't feel like I can do that like right now. But in the future, like anything's possible, kids. Do you have any thoughts on how you sort of validate those phrases? Like, I can't get out of bed today.

Or I can't smile this afternoon. Like what is the methodology for it? I'm feeling like I can't get out of bed right now is more healthy approach to those types of topics. There's a lot of really good resources too for like when you feel like you can't get out of bed right now is more healthy approach to those types of topics. There's a lot of really good resources, too, for, like, when you feel like you can't do anything that are, like, checklists of things that you can do that are really cool. It's, like, you can, like, take a shower and you can, like, do. And when you do those tiny things, they can improve your mood, like cleaning house style. And they add on each other.

And they add on each other and can kind kind of get you can kind of elevate you and yeah going back to the last point like if you have insurance uh like from your employer or or otherwise and the like means to seek uh the the service of a mental health professional like it's illuminating to do like it can only help yourself yeah so jordan the genesis kind of of this episode is you have been feeling depressed correct yeah it's a funnily enough throughout the recording so far and and up until the recording uh for a little bit of context i was home today because until the recording For a little bit of context I was home today Because I still might be a little bit contagious

So I didn't want to go into the office The depression is contagious By the way, that's a scientific fact There's a little rain cloud above me I didn't want to get anybody sick No, I got a little sick So I stayed home And then the two of you came over this evening

To record the episode And prior to that I had a really good chat with my mom shout out to number one sad boys fan joy cope the opposite of sad the opposite is sad uh my dad miserable cope which is why i'm stuck right in the middle um but she we had a really nice chat and it sort of just uh neutralized a lot of the stuff i was worried about and re-centered some of the stuff that i knew made me more comfortable. Oh, it's like as if talking about things helps, man.

Can you believe it? Dude, I wonder if therapy is a good idea for anybody. Excuse? Maybe you? No, next point. Let's move on. Oh, my God. He's PC gone mad.

Tranquilize him. I thought that was valid. You're out of your mind, Tyler. But, yeah, I had this good chat, and afterwards I started to perk up a little bit. But yeah, it was not a good day. To be very candid, I had my little moment in Phil's,

and then it's funny, Jarvis referenced earlier the idea of the shower. Taking a shower is something you should always be able to do. The shower is easy. It's right there. And to be honest honest sometimes it doesn't feel like it is yeah well that's that was to me i'm not very good at vocalizing that i'm in that place you'll notice i don't believe in this episode i've said the words i was i'm still struggling with it maybe reference it earlier but it makes me very uncomfortable and it shouldn't uh but i i was in a very i felt depressed today the last couple days and um i remember just standing in front of

the shower for like a good 20 30 minutes and just being like i just don't know what to do like i'd never done it before um and i'm sure this is a sensation familiar to the two of you and familiar to a few listeners i'm sure but that sensation of Well this isn't any more complex than it was Yesterday The actual schema behind how I take a shower Is not harder than it was yesterday But there's all of these invisible Blockers that I can't verbalize

And because I can't verbalize them you end up blaming yourself You think to yourself wow you're just Too lazy to take a shower You're just bad You're so stupid you can't even take a goddamn shower Whereas really something that we still As Jarvis said too lazy to take a shower. Yeah, you're just bad. You're so stupid you can't even take a goddamn shower. Whereas really something that we still, as Jarvis said, the language is in such infancy that we still haven't really found a way to verbalize this.

But something is making it really, really hard to pull the curtain to the side and turn the tap on. Like that was the part I struggled with was, but the curtain's closed. How do I open the curtain? The curtain is currently not open. Have you seen the curtain? Do you even know about the curtain? You seem like a man that doesn't understand the curtain. Does that resonate at all? Does my language make sense? That feeling of

it's not that the thing is hard, it's that the thing is a thing. Yeah. There's a diagram that I saw a long time ago. I wish I could find it and maybe share it in the artwork or something. But it was a really great, I found to be an excellent description of what the sensation of depression can feel like. And I wanted to throw it out to the two of you before we talk about our own experiences as a little bit of context. In my experience, at least with this diagram, depression was visualized as, okay, there is a circle.

A perfect circle that indicates you as a human being in your broad emotional capacity. And then there is a smaller circle within that, which is stress and intensity and struggle, things that may lead you to a breakdown or a burnout, let's say. This is anything as small as things are tricky at work, all the way to I feel physically ill or I've just gone through a breakup Just everything it's all negative emotion Not even negative it's just all emotion And then depression Is a vice that shrinks

The external circle down To the point where things that would otherwise not be All that upsetting or all that much Stressful suddenly have so much Little room to grow in They have no place to swim And then suddenly you're like yeah taking a shower every day was a tiny iota inside that circle a few weeks ago and now this morning i go into the shower i'm like well there's two directions which way do i pull the

fucking yeah i feel like i really identify with that a lot yeah like um i personally like feel like i have a lot of swings myself um that is like one of my goals for like getting into therapy is that um i can be like on top of the world and then just like really really low like within the context of the same day uh or even the same hour or whatever um and what i notice when i'm in that situation is that um when i'm at a high uh nothing can bring me down and when i'm at a low anything can bring me down like any anything that like doesn't go my way is like world ending right and then you create this self-critical cycle where you're like why are you getting upset about the shower dude yeah what are you doing why are you upset you made a video a couple weeks ago with no problem and now you're struggling to make a video yeah yeah or yeah and it's just like i i i personally like trigger my own sort of spirals in that way because i am such a i don't give myself

cut myself a lot of slack uh i like i try a lot of things and i want to be i want to succeed at the things i'm trying and when i give something a lot of my time and i don't succeed um it's a it's a pretty strong trigger for my own like sort of negative feelings about about myself no yeah and i feel like that same exact feeling is definitely what I felt when I was in my most severely depressed state. It was getting up in the morning and literally having, like, first of all, panic attack after opening my eyes to just be like, oh, crap, there's another day that I have to, like, live. And then secondly, like like after getting out of bed which took a while i would have a panic attack like how the heck do i put on clothes how do i decide like what to wear

like it's so like laughable and like that's it's so stupid right but like i couldn't fathom like how do people like choose what to wear and that i was so far gone that that was like a legitimate thought and that was happening so frequently and just to be like radically candid like that was one trigger to essentially a suicide attempt was i can't i can't pick up clothes i can't bathe myself i can't choose what to wear yes like what i what else do I do? I literally can't do anything. Like I'm not, everybody else can do this. Why can't I? Like I'm worthless. And so it just feeds into that cyclical negative self-talk that just leads to difficult thought

spirals that just go down and down until you feel like nothing. For the two of you, do you find that the more you've educated yourself on the stimuli and result of depression, has it made the actual state easier yeah definitely yeah i i think that like my lows now are nowhere near my lowest lows like i just like my experience with like cbt and going to therapy is that i have essentially if you're imagining uh like a sinus sort of wave where um there's like the the peak is the the high and the valley is the low i have been able to like shrink the the like depth of the low like essentially so like now when i like am going down to a place i don't get as low and i don't stay as low for as long whereas like in high school i could be like high and then like have a long low and then come back up it's like now i get to the

lows still sometimes but i don't stay there for yeah right because when you know more about something you have the wherewithal to be able to step outside of yourself and be like oh this is what i'm feeling what those books talk about and like these feel like i'm not this like these are something that are just feelings that are coming up in me and like all of these are lies that i'm telling myself like i'm not alone in this i'm not incapable of being loved like that's ridiculous thinking and so the more you know the more you can counteract those negative feelings with positive truths because those like thoughts those things that you tell yourself

those thoughts that you have are usually so fake they're so like without merit that they can't stand up sort of in a court of law and the more tools you get to deal with them is as if you were like learning the rule

of law yourself yeah and and so when those like i imagine it as like a boulder is falling and um you're trying to keep the boulder up from falling to like the depths and that's like when it falls to the depths that is a depression you there are a couple of skills that you're developing. One is to keep that boulder up in the air and not falling. And another is to thrust that boulder out of the depths once it's gotten there. And I think that's two axes of, at least in my mind, the way I think about my own experiences with this, two axes of how I feel about myself

and how I can improve sort of improve at like dealing with those situations what i find is interesting i think you make a really good point with this that i hadn't really thought about is that to to carry on from that analogy correct me if i'm wrong i don't feel as though educating yourself actually makes you stronger and thus able to hold the boulder longer it instead just informs you how to get the boulder longer yeah it instead just informs you how to get the boulder out of the pit yeah and how to know when the boulder's beginning to fall and also being like hey that boulder fell okay walk around that boulder and like you don't have to deal with that like it's just something that happened get a different boulder bro yeah yeah i

feel like that's a something that i've wrestled with a lot recently is the thought of but i know all about depression i read that book why am i still depressed like as if educating yourself like i know how uh my spinal injury happened and i'm fine yeah no you just know what not to do it makes it easier to deal with not easier to have yeah there's this concept uh that i it's a phrase from uh you know our good friend and ceo jack conti uh dad conti dad conti uh that's his it's new brand he rebranded his dad from one of his uh talks which is like uh he he talks about it in in the context of a failure as a creative but the phrase smoothing out the emotional curve i i think of that as like a really powerful way to think about what you were doing when you are learning to cope

with your um own like mental neuroses you're not removing you're not always removing the spikes and the and the falls but you are smoothing it out so nothing is like that you can see it coming oh here i go here i go it's it's happening i have full knowledge of it because this ride actually like has a turning point and and it gives you more lead time to deal with it as well like for example when that boulder that boulder, you go instead of like, the boulder fell to, the boulder seems like it's starting to fall. It's starting to fall and you can get into position. Let me warn the foreman.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you familiar that the boulder will be falling in approximately 30 minutes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Which in turn makes you more, and when you have that level of, I mean, not to push this analogy as far as it can go

and the analogy i came up with in two seconds so i apologize it's breaking to pieces yeah but if you were to speak to the foreman and condition the workforce to catch the boulder when it falls the more you do that the more prepared the workforce is every time that boulder falls you just go oh right yeah but the boulder always comes back up right yeah because you know that that is a that is one of the like things about cbt is like the the way i think and i don't know if this is like completely factual uh and i also don't know like how much like actual data we have about this the way i think about the negative thought patterns is that it's like reflexes gone bad it's like oh this is just the way that the canyon was built as the water ran through it

right though the water eroded this path as time went on yeah and and you had no say in the matter and so now this is just the way the water flows when it comes down we're using a different analogy now sorry um and stick it with geology though boulders did i mention i work with computers um and uh and and what you were doing and it's not like an overnight thing because what you were doing is like building new canyons yeah building a new path for that water to go to a more constructive place and these are literal at times like literal neural pathways that are physically

grooves in your brain that you're carving out that might be very like minute and microscopic but like aren't even physically there don't super quote me on that and it's good to add like the caveat that that none of us are giant don't super quote me on that and it's good to add like the caveat that that none of us are giant don't don't uh mini quote me on that jump in a time machine and go back to 2008 facebook and super cool yeah i've heard that from numerous sources that are cool people but i haven't fact-checked them but i think a good caveat to add is

none of us are mental health professionals and are definite not ultimate authorities on anything so take that as you will yeah we're just talking about our experience at least take this as like hey you know what we are authorities on is talking about our own experience as are you listener and jordan i think that's a good tie-in too. I think it's pretty clear, even like being here this morning in the same room as you and also being with you now that like talking about things

and doing this is like, not only like improve your mood and your being from like your earlier depressed self, but like has highly improved. Would you agree? I feel like just, I can literally physically see a difference in your demeanor from early this morning. And I think that just goes to show that it dismisses this misnomer of therapy that like, oh, they can't do anything for me. Well, hey, maybe they can't do anything for you, but you know what? That's not what therapy is about. Therapy is about them helping you process it.

It's not about what they can do. They're just there for guides to lead you to help you process your own feelings because ultimately you are the only person that can do something about it. You're the only catalyst for change. So nobody can really do anything about it. But what they can do is they can

help get you to better places uh through what you can do for yourself they're like the senseis that train yeah dude karate kid sensei what's what they're the mr miyagi's of mental health help you figure out how to do like yeah things to the ball you're not going to be able to win a karate tournament without waxing on and waxing off a little bit most therapists will make you wash car windows yeah yeah that's what mine yeah it's a weird thing i thought it was just a thing i had with my therapist but after consulting with everyone else your therapist is just a person you found they're free yeah it's true um this was really nice i wonder if people can tell when we record in my bedroom do you think it has like a tonal shift yeah no we've been uh kind of uh like

natural water flowing throughout the room different postures it's just like i hear the sexy jazz music in the bathroom in the bathroom in the background moving on uh i had an okay childhood oh what that's my biggest fear there's not many take this somewhere else venues for jazz than the bathroom i mean it does have good acoustic that's probably a little too strong jordan take this somewhere that's not here this This is the show? Yeah. Thanks for listening to the Sad Boys. It's a podcast that's online.

Yeah, it is. I like it, personally. It's also offline once you download it. That's true. You can listen to it online or offline. I have a request for the

listeners this very episode. Yes? We are still taking submissions. We had a few very tasty ones, but we're still taking submissions. For pen pals.

For pen pals. With a Z. Yeah, with a still taking submissions for pen pals pen pals with a z yeah with a z oh gosh uh pen pals with a z because somehow that's a joke i was cringing that whole episode listening to it today the homework is having to listen to this episode i'm doing what you guys homework is having to figure out pen pals but yeah feel free to submit via DM via Facebook via the Twitters the Instas whatever we're sad boys pod at Gmail

we're sad boys pod on Twitter we're sad boys pod on Facebook yeah get it where else and we're sad boys pod in your bathroom play some jazz

play some jazz. Play some jazz. All right. Young Tyler May, before we bounce out, is there anything you would like to shout out slash plug? I would like to shout out therapy. I'd like to shout out empathy, talking to other people, and being kind to one another. And also School of Rock. Oh, cool.

Not your podcast. My podcast is... Sorry, lost the opportunity. I'd also like to shout out Empathy. My podcast is very similar to this, but just has more structure and a lot less derailments. I have no idea what you're talking about. But there's a little less laughter, but we like to talk about mental health in a lighthearted way.

So we have interviews with people with different perspectives and various mental illnesses who talk about their feelings similar to sad boys it's called mr feels uh you can check it out on podcast apps mr feels podcast.com or at mr feels podcast on twitter i am tyler may that's my name and i am at tylerMedia on all social medias. I'm not very important, so don't feel like you have to follow me. I also deal with insecurity. And I handle it very well. Shout out to insecurity.

I like to plug empathy and insecurity. Thanks for having me on, boys. Hey, no problem, boy. Not a problem. Thanks for being on the show. Yeah, I'm going to have you. Best of luck since you're about to head downstairs and sleep about eight feet away from me. But I will have you boys on my podcast at some point.

Speaking of podcast guesting, I want to give a shout out. For in a week, we will be releasing an episode of the show. Yes. And we're very excited. We are. And can I speak in a stranger cadence? No. No, no.

You cannot. Forrest Gump. Yeah. Exciting episode coming out next week. Keep an eye out. We've got an exciting guest coming along. You're not even going to say who it is, but all that hype and no payoff. That's the sad boys in a nutshell.

All hype and no payoff. All the hype and none of the payoff. And with that in mind, we only have one thing to say to you, young Talonay. Oh, what is it? We love you. And we're sorry. Yeah, boy. Boom.

Boom. Boom.