Sad Boyz - Guilt

Episode Date: February 10, 2018

Today the boyz are still in total burnout mode (turns out these things don't fix themselves in a week) and we talk about guilt: Our catalysts for guilt and how we cope once that cat's out of the bag. Guilt can be a pragmatic tool that keeps us self-aware. That is, as long as you're not crippled by it (i'm looking at you, Jarvis). Also there's a new "trash update" which is quickly becoming the most consistent thing about the show, we announce a new segment, and justin timberlake released an album, the boyz react.

Welcome to the sad boys a podcast about feelings and other things also i'm jarvis and i'm jordan spicy boy cope Spicy boy. Yeah rebranded as the spicy boy. Look at you. Jordan is dead Spicy boy riseth from the ashes, but his name is also his name is also Yeah, sorry That is it's spelled differently. It's j-i-o-r j-i-o-r jordan spicy boy uh same last name or uh yes okay so so old jordan is dead and new jordan has a middle name old jordan is either dead or doing a

very unconvincing uh insurance scam okay i understand so you have like a life insurance policy yeah and it was only out on my exact name oh no you don't understand that was just jordan adika cope i'm jordan spicy you're familiar with spicy boy the spicy boy legacy that's me the spicy boy legacy but i'm here and I'm spicy. How the hell are you? I'm also here. This is episode two of a two-part series I like to call Burnout Boys. The Burned Boys. Today we're going to be talking about guilt.

Yes, going on something of a guilt trip about guilt trips. Yeah. We brought this up for a couple of reasons, but it felt like a nice companion piece to Burnout. Yeah. We brought this up for a couple of reasons, but it felt like a nice companion piece to Burnout. Yeah. Because as we mentioned on the last episode, I quite often default to guilt as like the emotion that rises to the surface when I am burned out. And I am a little bit different than you in that guilt is one of the primary contributors to my burnout. Yes. So we'll talk about guilt from, I suppose, both of those sides.

Uh-huh. But first, Jordan, how is your week? My week is not great. I am very tired. Same. Yeah, I mean, as we said, this is sort of the companion piece to last time. For anybody that didn't hear the last episode, that's pretty messed up. This isn't for you.

This episode does not welcome you. The spicy boy has banished you from his kingdom yeah um the spicy boy has a gun it's what he used to kill jordan wink don't tell the man don't tell the irs um but last time we talked about how uh we're both under um considerable work and personal pressure for various reasons right now and uh it manifested to both of us as this kind of feeling of exhaustion and at times frustration. This last week has felt like it is moving towards a solution for me in a lot of my areas.

Yeah, yeah. But it's not there yet. Right. And anybody that has ever spent any time with me knows that I am legendarily impatient. So when stuff floats around like this, I tend to get more and more frustrated over time. Right, right, right.

But overall, I'm comfortable. I'm just ready for to not be here to be sleeping more securely and to be feeling healthier yeah i a hundred percent how about you i am in a very similar boat or at least i was um until today because today was my last day of work before vacation. So now I'm officially on vacation. I have not yet been able to reap all of the benefits of vacation. And this is a non-voluntary vacation. Like you're not getting paid or anything. They said you have to go. Right. They didn't say the word vacation, right?

Well, it was implied because they were like, have fun. Yeah. I hope to see you again sometime. And so I took that to mean. It's a good sign. Yeah. When hope to see you again sometime. And so I took that to mean. It's a good sign. Yeah. When you come back to work. I took that to mean when I come back to work.

Right. Because I can't imagine what else that could be referring to. Your man just specifically said in kind of a low tone, miserable voice from a distance over the phone. In fact. Yeah. From a distance over the phone. He was 45 feet away from the telephone. Shouting into a landline telephone

standing at the tip of a quarry um i believe he specifically said see you around and you read that as when i returned to work which i assume is the office like it's like if it was just like he implied the end of that sentence right um when he handed me the box with all my stuff in it and the fact that the paychecks have stopped is not a concern to you you think that's like a bit they're doing a prank maybe um no i just think uh maybe it got lost in the mail or something i haven't it's a digital check though but my i lost i lost um access to my work email so i haven't been able to talk to the payroll yeah that makes sense yeah yeah so i'm not too concerned legendary pranksters but i'm going on vacation um going to new york on friday but i have a show first um but you're attending or performing in a show i'm performing in a sketch show uh got one friday and got one

the next friday after that what's it called if any san francisco based people want to go oh yeah it's called in-game sketch company f's with time oh what does the f stand for fools oh very self-deprecating fools with time fools with time and you are the titular end games man i'm the fool the fool um yeah so it's a sketch show where we discover a time machine and then do a bunch of uh time sketches like going back in time, talking to celebrities. Killer. If I want to go along, how and when and why? It's going to be at Stageworks Theater in The Mission in San Francisco at 7.30 p.m. on Friday the 9th and Friday the 16th.

Great. And why? Well, if you don't mind, I'd like to move on to the next segment of the podcast. Sure. You're bleeding out of your nose and eyes if that really upset you it's fine no this just happens sometimes i'm furious so i'm on vacation and you're on island time i mean let's face it so i'm on vacation only for the past few hours and it's already had an effect on my mood you're so cool you seem so stressed and intense earlier you turned up today hawaiian t-shirt four pairs of sunglasses can't be easy to see it is not and most of the t-shirts are on my chest despite the fact now we're still in in

burnout mode because i accidentally double booked this podcast so i'm missing something right now for starters you're missing a recording of bad stories i'm i'm uh i'm missing a recording of spicy boys oh my god i completely forgot about spicy boys i should definitely be there right right so you're also missing this and i've got to go somewhere immediately after this so we're still in burnout mode but it's hopefully gonna wind down the first taste of a vacation I got was when I got home and had fun taking out the trash. Yes. And I can tell you that I haven't said the phrase that I just said in a very long time. Well, to be fair, nobody has ever said that exact phrase for any reason. Yeah.

But you, as history listeners will know, have had something of a trash saga. I have. So where we last left our heroes. Yeah, can you give me the trash theme song? Oh, yeah. The recurring Sad Boys segment. The trash update. As we mentioned earlier, maybe the most popular segment we've ever done on the show.

It's definitely the longest lived segment other than the podcast itself trash time it's jarvis and trash and he talks about and he talks about it that's a little bit impressive actually especially the lyricism yeah and you the fact that you were wearing a trash can yeah there was a long break in between the fact that the song was trash yeah it fits in thematically um but we last left our heroes where we last left our heroes i had just been chewed out by my neighbor um and i vowed to never use his trash again you've been chewed out for unreasonable reasons yeah we had you're the protagonist you're the good guy i'm i'm the protagonist both in life and this story um i had i had been using his

trash bins for the past three years at the request of our landlord that we shared uh and then you know recently after three years he decided no more and he started chewing me out about it even though this is like had been the status quo yeah uh and it was a little bit unreasonable if you're curious about the full story listen to our episode on crying with Mayuko. I was left without a place to throw away my trash. So my trash had been building up in my apartment for weeks, but I had a new roommate move in who has a car. Yes.

And she offered to take us to the San Francisco Recology Public Disposal. Holy crap. In Bayshore. So we took all of our trash, put it in our car, and drove to the public dump that you still have to pay money for. Like they weigh your car with the trash in it. Oh, that's great.

And then you dump the trash out and then they weigh you after and they charge you for the amount of stuff that you dumped. It cost us 45 bucks. And you can see the full story on my Instagram. Yes, you can. Instagram.com. The full journey to trash hell instagram heaven yeah if you just go to instagram.com it'll be right there it's like were you looking for the trash guy um trash tales instagram.com slash magic jarvis you can find the the actual visuals of trash day and so we throw away our

stuff and then when we get back we had new trash bins delivered just for us things i've never seen before trash bins with our house number on them with pictures of your faces yeah engraved like this clearly took a lot of work um and they fit in our trash room and i've been leisurely recycling things and throwing away things for the past couple days and it is life-changing yeah i mean we are we're a privileged people we get very comfortable with things like that we generate a bunch of trash and now we have something to do with it but when we don't jarvis it was it's like our cleaning house episode quite literally quite literally it's like our cleaning house episode but those bags building up in my apartment was metaphorically taxing me, like in my brain.

And I just feel I went home today and there's just no trash in the apartment. The kitchen was like spotless. That's a vacation right there. It was vacation. Yeah. It's a couple of grown up men with really boring attitudes. I love when my kitchen's clean and when my trash isn't in my living room. And as is customary on Sad Boys, the trash update is not complete without discussing Justin Timberlake.

Oh, yes, of course. With every trash update, we seamlessly segue over to JT's latest audio mistakes that he's been doing. Okay, where do I even begin? So, the album came out. Man of the Woods. Man of the Woods. Man found the woods. Man meet woods. When boy meets woods.

It dropped, it's out, it's fresh. I listened to it, and I have, well, I have some feelings about it. Would you like to hear them, Jordan? Your feelings? Well, guess what? This is a comedy podcast about feelings. You've got to hear mine. That's fine.

I mean, I guess. Sure. If there's no other feelings. All right. Well. So, JT, give me a read on the JT. J, J. Hey.

Hey. Took me a minute. Who are you? I was disappointed when I first listened to it. It feels like it lacks a cohesion. And it's a little cheeky and like a little derivative and like kind of like weird uh like there's like trap drums on like a country song and it's like super strange yeah um but i'm conflicted because i've continued to listen to it and it's growing on me and now i'm

nervous that i'm gonna be the only one on planet earth that can tolerate this album yeah i feel like i'm ostracizing myself gradually over time slowly putting yourself in self-imposed exile um so this record is interesting and i will always take interesting over just plain old mediocre or okay right right i from an objective standpoint i'm going to say that it is bad right mainly because of that lack of cohesion and when it comes to uh songwriting that's mainly built around like uh thematic relevance like i'm here's this feeling i'm out in the woods i'm getting high or like i'm at the club with my girl it's nice to have like some kind of thematic or emotional through line so it doesn't just feel all disparate like a mixtape because it's not like

it's not like you're coming to a justin himlake record for the lyrical depth sure but that that that sensation that he's offering is the thing that you're going exactly when it feels kind of like a kid telling a story and it's like and then what happened and it's like and then we were in the woods and it's like and then what happened and then i had a child i had a child and then i went to my school and i saw david and david had a new game boy yeah and it's like it's like so the tracks are like david the woods having a kid and then you're like i don't i no no connective tissue yeah this doesn't have the connective tissue it feels just as thematically coherent as like uh putting spotify on shuffle on justin timberlake

yeah and so and so and I do that. And so that's why I'm able to enjoy it like as a mixtape, like in isolation, I'm like, oh, this is fun. Or, oh, I like this, or this is catchy. Yeah. But as an album, it just like doesn't land. And I mean, a big reason for that is like, and one of the big reasons I find it an interesting album,

which again, I find compelling, is because the aesthetic of the big reasons i find it an interesting album which again i find compelling is because the the aesthetic of the album plus the production is a terrible idea just on paper it does not work what i admire is that it was never going to work and they did it anyway um for context it is a it's kind of a rural pop throwback that's like yeah yeah literally man in the woods the cover is a cut of justin looking suave and sexy on one half and then the other half is him in like flannel and yeah yeah in the woods it's supposed to be justin going back to his roots and reincorporating his influences yeah i think that's a really neat idea i i'm not sure pharrell was the man yeah i think pharrell's a dynamite producer i just don't think like ultra clean ultra minimalist ultra sparse instrumentals and trap beats yeah mix all that well with country content it's really

distracting it's super weird and and i so parts of it are nostalgic for me because it reminds me of um like i think that it's not new territory for justin timberlake like it kind of musically like the stuff that justin timberlake is providing like in terms of vocals and stuff, is very reminiscent of like very old Justin Timberlake stuff. And that stuff like is nostalgic to me. And so I'm like, oh, this kind of reminds me of this thing. But it's like got this weird like beat. It's got this weird atmosphere around it. And so I just have so much tolerance that i shouldn't have built up over

the years right yeah um which is again i mean it's completely valid to find it compelling and even good right but the healthy way to do that is to identify okay i can see why this doesn't appeal to people i can see why this x y and z are problems i can see why having this really heavy really out of place like 8088 distracting people from this somber country song about my child yeah but at the same time that doesn't mean that you can't like absorb something from it and see what the creative process was yeah if anybody hasn't listened to it i recommend it it's check it out it's interesting i would say world just give me a break give give me this one give me a w on this one give me give me

a w on this one i'm gonna listen to it and none of you have to i'll make the sacrifice i'll make the sacrifice um but this is the privilege of the spotify era you can listen to albums that you aren't that interested in just to learn from them yeah yeah absolutely you're not gonna lose out on anything and then there's the super bowl yes that's uh the sport one right right the way i understand it is that they get a bunch of athletes in a giant bowl yes and uh last man standing and it's full of soup oh right it's a super bowl yeah got it yeah i can leave if that no no no please stay yeah that was that was bad that was a great contribution delete the podcast so on siri uninstall podcast welcome to sad boys

about feelings only i'm jarvis and jordan is dead i'm ashamed i'm jervis and i now it's jordan salty boy jordan salty boy ashamed. It's because soup base is salty. Soupy boy. Soupy boy. So the soupy boy happened. Yeah. And I was not watching the Super Bowl because I was helping a friend work on a project.

And I just was looking at Twitter when the halftime show, Justin Timberlake performed at the halftime show, when it happened. And Twitter's response was so negative. Oh, no, Justin. That I cannot watch the performance. I have yet to watch it. I'm afraid to watch it. Well, how about we say that? Because I have also not seen it.

I didn't see the Super Bowl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the Super Bowl's neat. I just don't have, like, enough backing to understand the game all that well. Yeah to understand the game all that well uh seems fun people seem to be having a lot of fun the food's great um but i i've also not seen it yeah so maybe the homework for us over this next week is every single day on your vacation please watch that video like a religious experience absorb it synthesize chew on it and then we'll meet back on the next episode to discuss how good or bad it was i will say um the only thing that i can recommend from um man of the woods is the music video for say something which is the third single yes and it's it's kind of like a live like

one take type of music video it's a very different mix than the album version of the song and i think it's really good it's featuring chris stapleton. And I think Chris Stapleton really like, that guy is just so good. Yeah. And his voice is so powerful. That's a really solid record. Yeah. And that's like, that song is cool. I really like that one.

And it's probably the closest the album comes, especially with that mix. Although it works in both cases, it's probably the closest that it comes to aligning on the aesthetic that they outlined from the beginning. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. it's probably the closest that it comes to aligning on the aesthetic that they outlined from the beginning yeah yeah we want uh technologically advanced and interestingly produced country inspired pop music right and that's exactly what that track is yeah yeah and they've got like a great country pop singer who's like a soul singer like he's he's got like chris ableton has like a soul hearty but, like, sings country slash pop. I don't understand that dude's voice or genre, but he's extremely talented, and I love him on that song. Please come on the show, Chris.

Yeah, Chris Stapleton. You and your beard are welcome. Chris and Raina Scully, the two dream cats. Yeah, did we bump Justin Timberlake? JT's out. JT's out. After this. We like Chris stapleton him

and marshall mathers have not been doing so hot lately they're both out of my special graces do you think that this is not our perfect chance to get them on the show yeah possibly i mean we're closer than ever they need a good bit of branding and to be honest we're probably the most engaged fans on the internet we just need to we just need to keep knocking it out of the park and they just need to release one more bad album and then we finally like are able to reach the stars and grab marshall yeah i would say a few three to four more good podcast episodes puts us at more or less the same as eminem okay okay i um i honestly like would have him on in a heartbeat, you know? Oh, you'd be so interesting. There'd be so many interesting things to talk about.

I just can't. I haven't really tracked along with Eminem all that much, at least not his public persona, which is limited anyway for the last few years. But I was a huge Eminem fan growing up, as were you. And I think it would be interesting to see what his public persona is in a format like this. I think one thing that I would love to discuss is like how i ever got off enjoying eminem's music with like how horrendous his lyrics are and and like how we as a society just like we're cool with that hey that's perfect segue something i feel guilty about every

single day of my life is like uh young eminem just using straight up homophobic language and rhetoric. It is the worst shit. And we should talk about Eminem and how singing his songs makes us feel very guilty after the break. Oh, Jordan, what's up? I had a great idea for the podcast. Dynamite love this energy. We love getting people involved. We love hearing their voices and their stories. Yes. So I was thinking we could have user-submitted voicemails and messages that we read and listen to on the show. That's a great idea. Like a live fan engagement. You can submit something to the show and you can be a part of the episode. Yeah, like a new segment where we have our fan mail and we engage with the community.

Killer. Love it. Anything they want. Questions, thoughts, topics, anecdotes, that kind of thing. exactly uh do you have a name for the segment yes i do are you ready oh okay yeah i'm excited pen pals okay yeah okay it's not like a pun or anything well um it's spelled with a z at the end pals you know right like the like the show name yeah like sad boys yeah okay yeah so my only thought is that well that you know it's an audio medium and that's kind of a visual joke no but like it's it's just thematically are you thinking we'd say it like with a z uh we could we could just say pen pals with a z it's got the same number of letters as Sad Boys. Yeah, no, I get it. It's not that I'm not following.

But it's like our title? Yeah, it's like the podcast show. Exactly. Okay, sure. I don't understand why you're not jumping. It's fine. We can keep the name. Just let go of my arm. It's fine. We can use the name. But if people wanted to write in, what's the best way to do that? Well, if they want to write in to us, they can hit us up on Twitter, at boys pod on facebook at sad boys pod or at our email

address sad boys pod at gmail.com we are so brand aligned i love it all you got to do is let us know that it's okay to use your message and pen pals yes and you can say whether or not you want us to use your name as well completely up to you happy to give you a shout out or not feel free to submit anonymously and we'll maintain your anonymity on the show. Absolutely. And Travis, the name of the segment again, I just wanted to clarify. So it's, so you know how Sad Boys has like a Z at the end? Like Sad Boys with a Z. Okay, let's just, let's get back to the show. So the topic of today's episode is guilt.

Yeah. And we were just talking about. How guilty Justin should feel for the things that he did. I wonder about that. You know, I admire people who have like such a high degree of confidence that they feel no guilt. Like in this weird, morbid way, I'm like, wow, Logan Paul could be Logan Paul because he has no guilt whatsoever.

You can tell he's like probably a sociopath that doesn't feel it at all. And I feel it at all and i feel it so much that it's crippling to me yeah so it's almost like looking out at the window at all the other kids playing on the playground and being like ah must be nice even though like logan paul is like just like a horrible horrible um edge of the spectrum right but it seems as though he's not bothered by that. And it doesn't seem to be hurting his career, despite the fact that people know that he is a horrible human being. Logan would love to have you on the show.

Again, huge fan of Logan Paul. Jarvis talks about that off-air a lot. He says those videos are actually really good. Yeah, this is just what I do to keep up appearances. I'm just trying to be woke, but I too want to be a sociopath, so hit me up. So Jordan, you were talking right before the break about Eminem. My man. And about how we've both been big fans of Eminem when we were growing up.

And now it's tough to even listen to the music that he came up on because it's just so homophobic and it's so offensive. How do you think about that stuff today well to be honest when it comes to absorbing art i think there's always that privileged position of just saying okay well it's a contemporary piece and you can take the benefits and leave the leave the negatives but in the case of stuff like eddie murphy's raw and a lot of marshall mathers work uh around marshall mathers lp yeah yeah wasn't really okay then it wasn't in fact uh super cool thing to do at the time uh picket signs for his wicked rhymes look at the times the thing is in mind is that mother effing kid

that's behind us as he once said in a song a crowd turned up i can't battle you please you gotta lose yourself in the music you gotta lose it in the moment you're you're my papa doc that's an eight mile reference i was thinking the other day it's actually really inconsiderate the way that eminem tells you that dr dre has passed away he calls you an idiot he's like nothing you idiot dr dre's dead he's locked up in my basement i'm like whoa yeah like how didn't you know you killed him and he's locked up in your basement why would i know about that yeah and perfect segue after that exact line yeah Yeah. Feminist women love Eminem. Chicka, chicka, chicka.

I'm Slim Shady. Just look at him. Look at him walking around, grabbing his you-know-what, flipping the you-know-who. Oh, but he's so cute, though. Yes. Oh, my God. It's so bad. It's so bad. But that's not even the worst stuff.

No. I mean, my favorite thing that he does to this day is Monica Lewinsky references. Not particularly offensive,'s to be totally honest with you i am as enamored with that event as anyone else right i feel like people don't talk about it nearly enough right now that's the most buck wild shit that's ever happened and i feel like if it happened to uh our current president it would not register that's like how it might have it like it like triggered an impeachment. Yeah. Impeachment proceedings because of lying under oath for Bill Clinton.

And I do not think that it would register on the Richter scale today. It would be maybe the sixth most popular meme of the day. But it is, I mean, obviously still like a horrible abuse of power. It's very bizarre. But to segue back to guilt. Yes. As a thing. Are there any other artworks or things you indulge in movies you love tv shows you love music you love that you feel like a twinge of guilt around still abiding by um i think that whenever you find out that one of your heroes or someone that you looked up to is like in their private lives yeah a not good person it

really taints like the appreciation of the art and then it the guilt of can i still enjoy this art like that is something i feel a lot especially when like like i really like the movie american beauty yeah and one of my favorite shows of all times all time is uh house of cards yeah yeah and so kevin screwed us on those kevin spacey is like a bad dude and and now it's like i almost feel guilt retroactively but i couldn't have known right sure like dr dre is in my basement idiot all right marshall jesus yeah yeah and that kind of speaks to like my own sensitivity with guilt yeah i wanted to ask you i think one of the biggest causes of guilt for both of us is letting people down yeah but for me i've discussed this today with my manager and my therapist i let that cripple me i will bend over backwards and sacrifice my own

well-being to make someone else happy if they want something from me because i feel so guilty saying no yeah and it's not altruistic right like it's I do the same thing and it's not coming from a place of, oh, I'm just such a strong guy and a good personality. I gotta be self-sacrificing. It's more like, well, if I don't do this thing for this person, I'm just going to feel so bad about it. Yes. That's yesterday. Someone asked me to do something at work. I like moved my schedule around to try and leave early. And then at the end of the day, something came up and somebody needed me. And even though I was trying to take care of myself, I had worked a really long day

the day before. I was trying to work a short day yesterday. I moved my entire schedule up in the day so that I could get out early and like, yeah, decompress because I was just really, really having a hard time in my brain. I'm like, if I say no, I'm going to feel guilty for the rest of the night and I'm not going to be able to enjoy my night. And it isn't even rational. It's not as if that guilt is trying to teach you something about the way you treat people or the way that you act. It's a completely reasonable thing to say. I worked hard. I'm going to go home. It's just it's too insidious. It buries itself in your brain. But I feel like I

owe this person this thing. Oh my gosh. I think, how does that manifest for you? Because I feel like I spend hours upon hours obsessing over things that didn't even register for other people. Yeah. I would say as I get older and as I let people down more, just as you have to, you know, every time you're adding to the tally of number of times you I let people down more, just as you have to, you know, every time you're adding to the tally of number of times you've let people down, I get more and more comfortable with the idea of framing myself as somebody that can fail, if that makes sense. Right. Like, I think working has been a big part of that. I mean, I've been working at our company for about two and a half years now. And prior to that, I'd never worked consistently in an office or any kind of

organization. Yeah. I was, you know, fresh fresh out of college i think working in a traditional space is a really great crash course in all ends of the emotional spectrum right like you get to succeed and engage with people at a level you never could before because there's so much collaboration happening and so much like aggressive work and and candidness and all of that and then the other side of the spectrum you let people down more frequently and with greater intensity than really any other point in your life right right often than any other point in your life um so as a result i felt like that's helped me grow but the catalyst for me that usually generates guilt is usually when i not only have let somebody down or missed out on something but when doing so actively taints their perception of me oh yeah

even if they're not actually doing that. Yeah, yeah. But if, for example, I think, I like to consider myself somebody that's like emotionally available, right? Or like sincere, for example. These are things that I want to value as Jordan Cope. I want Jordan Spicy Boy Cope to be those things. Right. And if I just can't make it to like a friend's birthday party for completely legitimate

reasons yeah suddenly i internalize that as i have not only let you down but also i have twisted your interpretation of me and now forever you will always think of jordan cope as the emotionally inconsiderate person yeah that's the stuff that really sticks with me i feel that so much i think that often i'm split between my own self-care and the needs of others. And it is really hard to do the calculus of like, what do I do? And it's harder than it should be. I feel like it's harder for me than the average person. For example, one of our friends invited me to an event to which I agreed because I really want to spend more time hanging out with this person. And the day came up and I was in burnout. We're

in burnout too, you know. Paradise lost. Paradise lost. I was in, I'm in that midst, right? And so I knew with all the stuff that I have this week, I couldn't do it. Yeah. And so I was in the morning, came to terms with the fact that I was probably going to have to like bail. And that was like, I texted multiple people to get opinions and I finally did it. But when I talked to my therapist, they're like, it's okay to do that. Like I texted one of my friends, I texted Maiko. I texted Maiko and I was like, is it okay if I like bail on this thing? And they're like, dude, it's okay to take care of yourself. And I was like, fuck.

But what will they think of me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I even, I think this is what happens to me. And I'm curious to get your opinion. When I feel guilty, I need to ask someone else's opinion. The other day, I'll say this on the pod. I, like my last YouTube video did decently well. And I am now not,

no longer getting kicked out of the YouTube partner program. So basically it it used to be in order to be in the YouTube partner program, you only needed 10,000 views on your channel. And so I qualified for that. But then they changed it to get rid of like bots and stuff and spammers. They changed it to be 1000 subscribers, which I have at least and 4000 hours of watch time on your channel. Now, at the time that they made this change, I only had 2,000 hours of watch time on my channel. And I really wanted to not get kicked out of the partner program. They gave me a month. And so I happened to get to the 4,000 hours of watch time, right? I was so happy about this that I tweeted, oh my gosh, I'm so excited due to like the success of this recent video, we are going to get to stay in the partner program,

like trying to thank everybody and also just like communicate my excitement. And immediately after I posted it, I was like, is this bragging? Am I bragging? I texted Jordan. I texted Heather, who's also a fan of the boys. I was like, hey, is this too much? Is this a reasonable way to be? Can I say this thing that is true? Am I allowed to be this way? Like, I don't know. And then I ultimately like had a panic attack and just deleted the tweet even though it was probably innocuous completely reasonable posted a youtube video that got six million views of him with a goddamn dead body he might have forgotten by now he might have forgotten he might not know he did that he he

literally tased dead animals or any through pokeballs at Japanese people. And I can't tweet that I'm excited about the thing that's completely valid to be excited. Yeah. I feel like the reasoning behind why guilt can so often manifest in ways that feel like stupid, irrational like that. And especially when it's related to what we were talking about with, okay, I view myself as this way. If I do this thing, people won't view me that way. I view myself as humble and self-aware. If post this thing will it seem like bragging that kind of exactly i think it's so often the result of those traits not being internalized right like absolutely

me wanting to be the kind of person that is emotionally sincere comes from a place or like reliable comes from a place of not having felt like that in the past yeah of like having friendships or relationships or dynamics where i felt like i've let people down in that way right and now i require that external validation yeah if i don't turn up to a party and as a result somebody says like man jordan never wears good hats they're like fuck you i wear great hats i know exactly how my hat game is on point i feel very comfortable with that or like my ability to care about people right there's very little that i could do that would make me question that yeah because i believe it fundamentally yeah whereas i think i have some skepticism around whether or not i am like emotionally sincere enough yeah skepticism around whether or not i'm like a caring enough friend so despite you know uh i

could go to 10 parties and be incredibly friendly and open with 10 people that 11th person that i let down that one negative youtube comments amongst the thousands of good ones yeah is gonna bug me so much more so than it really should yeah like for example when i was in elementary school someone told me that i bragged a lot and so like and now i'm like extra hyper that's fucking locked in yeah that's crazy yeah children be careful i know no no i'm like so i like hypersensitive to it but i think that you're absolutely correct i am far too externally validated i think i place too much i place too much of my own evaluation of myself in others so am i I good at X? Well, it depends on if other people validate me as so, right? There's not a lot that I hold close to me as being true. And that is a problem. Like,

I think that I, in a lot of us who are like insecure in that way, could stand to be more sure of themselves and be more confident that you are like a good enough friend or you are compassionate enough because you have you have tons of evidence to support that statement but that's external you also know that you're putting your best foot forward and sometimes that has to be enough yeah and and i mean that psychology and what is clearly kind of a an issue for us comes from a logical place like you do want to receive some degree of external validation or else you do turn into a logan paul right right like if you just believe everything you do is perfect everything

you turn touch uh turns to gold then you're never going to readdress things that you could be fucking up yeah if it wasn't for significant backlash the video would have never gone down you know what i mean because at no point does logan paul haven't uh developed enough moral compass to be able to go like that seems like a fucked up thing that i did yeah it's it's ridiculous that his threshold is that high his threshold is doing the thing and then seeing if people really freak out yeah yeah because he is i think the problem with echo chambers and i don't want to make this about logan paul i want to make this about anyone who has an insular community that is essentially echoing the opinions of the group over and over and over again

borderline bulletproof yeah because you will never you have enough evidence inside the echo chamber yeah to support any action that you're trying to take um which is very dangerous because you can essentially do things unchecked. And I'm willing to bet that there are at some point in the near future, and I bet there are people that believe this right now. I probably do have friends that don't think I'm like emotionally sincere enough in some situations. Yeah.

Friends that I haven't like developed that cadence with or figured out that vocabulary. Right, right, right. Like every friendship had its own dialogue and maybe i haven't found it there yet yeah yeah but at the same time being aware of that and concerned about it is enough right utilizing guilt as a pragmatic tool to keep you self-aware is fine but when it's something that stops you from being able to take steps forward like i don't want to put out to use your example this tweet yeah well worst case scenario you put out the tweet you get some feedback back and you've developed there's no world where you put the tweet out and it's logan paul tia i can't believe i made this terrible mistake you're too

considerate there are people all the time who make mistakes and then apologize and everyone's like okay cool yeah good job let's move on with our lives yeah so being too guilty is just a bad thing it just like doesn't serve anyone and it cripples you right yeah to like separate out the parlance guilt sits in this this area of uh negativity and and frustration right like it's just this uh self feeding ball of negativity whereas like candidness or self-criticism leans on the left that's the positive zone that's something that you can actually utilize to grow and feel better about yourself right right um i thought it's really interesting that you specifically cited an elementary school experience

yeah because i imagine that is super common we talked about bullies a couple episodes ago and i don't think we touched on that enough because that the effect of having something criticized when you only really like can conceive of 50 things yeah like i really don't know anything outside of this four mile square radius yeah and somebody just goes did you know that there are dragons in that room no way really like you're dumb enough to believe that you're definitely dumb enough to believe anything that somebody says about your personality traits or also like going back to what you said about having these beliefs about yourself that you don't that you aren't so super confident in but want to be true yeah right like that's even when

you have you only know 50 things as a kid when you're like i'm red and then somebody's like you're not red you're a little pink and you're like, no. But I was, my entire world. Shifts to black and white with violin music. Exactly, exactly. And rain, inexplicably. I thought I was red the whole time. I was, yeah. It's like your fundamental view of yourself is being challenged.

And that is such an uncomfortable feeling that we try to avoid it at all costs. But that sponginess that you have as a child, I mean, it exists for a reason, right? You're trying to absorb as much information as possible that you can later synthesize and turn into a full human being the weird thing about that is that it has this unhealthy flip side where because once you've synthesized that information your brain goes okay that was childhood and i learned all the things i need to learn now i'm just jordan right that when uh like a clear amount of evidence presents itself that you don't brag too much like i can say that to you yeah they can say that to you you're the fact that nobody's

criticizing it about you for the last few years right and prove that to you but because you learned it as a child that's the thing you believe and now you need evidence to reflect that burden whereas that makes like zero sense right that'd be like uh i still feel insecure about like sometimes my my size i'm a very tall long person right and sometimes uh when i would like lie down next to people when i was growing up or i would like uh dance or really make any kind of major motion i would bump into people a lot it would happen all the time but the important thing is is that i was like this big when i was like 15 right so i was disproportionately large and that was why it was a problem now you can go out dancing there are people taller than me there are people longer than me but it's still

something i worry about because it locked itself in there it became an insidious little brain bug when my brain was ready to be bugged yeah yeah yeah whereas you know it's just as rational to live my life being like i'm the perfect size and then somebody goes you seem a little long and you're getting in the way i go oh i oh, I don't think so. Yeah. Like, let me add that average into my one million other experiences. Yeah. It doesn't register. But I think we have a tendency to overweight the negative.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And it warps our perception of ourselves. So don't do that. Hey, come on. Don't do it. Yeah. Keep it up. You you're perfect you figured it

out man yeah i mean like whenever you're feeling guilty ask yourself if you're being fair to yourself yes and ask why you're feeling guilty about it yeah the tricky thing about guilt is that it feels i don't know if you feel the same way whenever i feel guilty it feels 100 valid in a way other feelings don't even sadness can sometimes feel a little misapplied right like i'm just crying i'm like oh god why am i here what's going on there's so many factors contributing this am i being overly dramatic guilt has no ambiguity when i feel guilty i'm like yeah i suck yeah this was my fault it's because you're able to pull a piece of evidence and you're not truly examining there's probably a logical fallacy at play, but you're not, because you

have like an experience to point to, you're being like, oh, but this, therefore, like my guilt feeling. When really, if you look into it, it's like, oh, you're just like catastrophizing this instance. You're blowing this up out of proportion, or you're, you know, trying to read someone else's mind where you can't actually do that. And so it's just as easy to pick the worst case scenario as the best case scenario when you don't know what someone else is thinking right oh they probably think this now sure you have no way of knowing you have no data that's just the thing that would make you the most upset exactly and you've chosen that and now you're just like sitting in sadness there's dozens of things that i'm sure we don't do that with we just recognize

the areas we do it with right like if i don't hang out with a friend I'm sure we don't do that with. We just recognize the areas we do it with, right? Like if I don't hang out with a friend of mine, if we don't hang out for like, let's say two weeks, I'm not going to suddenly start assuming, I think Jarvis thinks I don't shower enough. Right. No, I'm going to assume some other thing that I might be actually insecure about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Before we wrap up, I have homework for the fam of the boys. Yes.

But it's homework that I would like us to both do as well. Okay. My question to the fam of the boys slash the emotional perverts, as I've coined them, that I'm going to fight for. I'm fam of the boys, Jordan's emotional pervert. If you're... You choose... Choose your side.

Your side. Choose your side this summer. My question to the gang is, what is something that you feel guilty about right now? Now, that can be as tangible as you want it to be. It can be like a literal example of something you've done. Or it can be like a more abstract feeling of, I'm not satisfied with the way my relationships are going. But I want you to hit us up. DM, Facebook, blah, blah, blah.

Get on Pen Pals with a Z. Feel free to do the homework. Not a part of Pen Pals. But if you want to be a part of Pen Pals us know yeah that would be great all right jordan i think that's the end of the show i've got such a good idea oh what we should do our catchphrase that we end every episode with oh that is a good idea we could use that to end the episode that's brilliant okay i like spicy boy spicy boy's got a bunch of fun ideas all right well spicy all right well this is spicy boy's last episode this of fun ideas. All right. Well, Spicy. All right. Well, this is Spicy Boy's last episode.

This positive fun energy is going to be leaving permanently. Well, it was fun while it lasted. It was. Jordan will be back next week. Please don't listen. We love you. And we are sorry. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. We'll see you next time.