Sad Boyz - Has Christian TikTok Gone Too Far?

Episode Date: July 3, 2026

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Hello, governor. Hello. Hello, governor. How about the word governor? It's got some strange letters in there that we don't even pronounce. This episode is being sponsored by the gubernatorial system. See? You just threw a bee in there.

Yeah, that pisses me off a little bit. It all makes me mad. Gubernatorial has a bee, right? It does. It absolutely does. What are we doing? Like a gov, GOV, right? But then gubernatorial is like, GUB, excuse me?

What in the world is that? Welcome to Sadboys. A podcast about feelings and other things also I'm Jarvis and I'm upset. And also about the gooberment. It's also, yeah, sometimes the podcast is about the gooberment. Man, I'm so tired about the gooberment. Two goofy goobers. Yeah, we are pretty goofy.

We're goofy govers. Do you remember a period in time where like, why does that sound weird? Referencing, just saying like lines from SpongeBob one to one or one. The one another was so, that was just kidding. That was joking. Absolutely. Yeah. And it was, um, you would quote old, you would be like, um,

My spoon is too big. Yes, a big one. Firing my laser. I'm a fire in my laser. Does that mean anything to you, peeps? One time for Halloween. I was a banana and my sister was a spoon. I am a banana.

Wow. That's cross-generational because that video is old as hell. He loved that shit. My spoon is too big. I was thinking about Crazy Frog the other day. Not in the like yearning for him, but just thinking about him. You were looking out of window longingly? Is he looking at the same moon as, he's dead for sure?

Him and a tiny penis. It's visible in the album art. He has a cock. Look, and that's fine. Some of our best people have them. Some of our worst. Yeah, it's a real coin flip. Most of our worst.

Yeah, it's kind of like a Targaryen thing. Sometimes the God's just like, this penis guy's no good. I just wonder if like, Crazy Frog, I don't think it'd have any of the motion that it had at the time. Because I think it was just the first random thing I ever saw. Here's a question for you. That was the fun. Is this Crazy Frog, the one that's like, do, do do do do do do do do do liloo.

That's, that is the remake of that. So Crazy Frog is just the render animation of pretending to be a motorbike. And then Axel F and then other song parody versions of it came out. And then they put it out officially as a single. It may look a billion dollars. Yeah, that's awesome. But it's like Crazy Frog, the song and dancing style has eclipsed epically random. I'm a frog.

epically random mama frog How are you doing on this fine Wednesday Jordan? Wednesday for us Friday for you The audience Even me Every day's Friday dude I'm on I'm on island time A little mealy mouth

I relate to that How's the propion maxing? It's been good I got approval to go up on it today Oh Mount it, climb it So no I'm even further maximizing it Yeah I guess we weren't propio maxing

We would mining Yeah. Are you in the realm of feeling the effects, do you reckon? I think I'm not feeling the, I had an appointment with my psychiatrist today. And for me, it was more about helping with my mood crashes towards the end of the day. And it's helped with that. When I first started it, I was getting a little irritable, but it passed, which is good. I was, yeah, it was funny because we were texting about it.

And I was struggling divorced, like, whether or not. the irritability I was feeling, especially in the latter half of the day, was more the result of like the benefits. Like if I was getting that mental clarity and that was making me less, um, like,

abative to things that are actually pissing me off. I'm pretty water ducks back on like, general annoyances, but I think that's largely just a part of like, I'm pretty easy to distract. This is like I, like the way my psych was describing it is like things that would normally like annoy you,

like very much irritate you. It's like in terms of like that side effect, but it was it was passing. It was like, I looked at, I was nervous that it was going to be forever, but it wasn't. Yeah,

I don't know if like, I had like a kind of like a tricky conversation the other day and then afterwards was much more like doubtful of how, like, because it felt so sincere in the moment. And then I go home and I'm like, I'm so much more annoyed than I would normally be.

I could only read that as, oh, I must be, I must have been unreasoned. And then with enough time with it, I'm like, oh, I think I just feel worse about it than I would. But now, I mean, I just really like the feeling of that something's happening. Yeah. Progress, including failed hypothesis. If it doesn't work, it's something enough.

Feeling like you're taking, you're taking life by the reins, trying stuff, doing stuff. Little motion. Okay. So this is written on our big word. Great American State Fair. Whoa, not the Great American Straight Fair. About time. June is over.

So all I know is that I saw a video of some people, there are more people performing on stage than like in the crowd. I believe Millie Vanilli was going to be in it and then maybe dropped out. Same for vanilla. There were a lot of people. And then someone else performed. Then they, sorry, I was trying to make a Millie Vanilly joke and it didn't come together. You remember, you guys know this thing with Millie Vanilli, right?

No. Millie Vanilli was the band or group that had a famous MTV VMA's performance where they, the music started skipping. And it was revealed that they were not only lip syncing, but they weren't actually the vocalist behind their music. Whoa. Girl, you know it's girl you know it's. It's like extremely awkward. They've been a remix. Yeah. Now, you might be thinking, oh, there's been some kind of into, they're doing a sound.

You would imagine. That's what this looks like. This is DJT's grand state fair. So it's a Trump thing. It's Trump's thing, though it is very sequestered from the pool because famously, you now get like shot in the head if you go anywhere near the infinity pool that he's been working on. I feel like even with the lightest amount of advertising, there would be more people than this. I know.

Yeah. It is, this version of it is his. sort of concept. Like, this is his, like... If you didn't tell me this was a state fair, I would think literally that it's like an underpopulated section of Coachella or something, because where's the stuff?

So many people on stage, because it's like a full, like... There's like a concert band, yeah. But where's the shit? Like, isn't a state fair, it's like cotton candy and stuff? Isn't it like the... Yeah, well, normally a state fair

has more of like a fair vibe to it where they've got like, you know, vendors and stuff. But it is in one of the states. So, well, it's not. It's not in one of the states. It's in Washington, D.C. Correct.

Right. North Carolina's booth where there, oh, so there were, it's a state fair as in each of the states have some sort of representatives? So the concept, yes, is that it's this big fair where each of the states bring a representative or collection of representatives and they have their booth.

their booth and you can go to all of the different states. There were eight states that opted out. Okay. One of them was Hawaii and in their booth they sent a basically just like a printout backdrop where they sneakly put like a silhouette of Obama in there. Oh, interesting. Okay. Look, so I guess it's worth noting that we're approaching the 250th anniversary.

of America. Correct. So I guess that's why they're doing this? Yes. It is what? Like the 250 years since the Revolutionary War? Since the Independence Day? Declaration.

Oh, declaration. Oh, declaration of it. Well, because I actually don't know what it is. I assumed that Independence Day would be like the 250. So it'll be 250 years since July 4th, 1776. 17. 17. That constitution of yours?

Why, if it's so good, why do you have to keep amending it? It sounds like you're talking about me needing to eat more fiber in my diet. Yeah. The constitution of yours, yeah. So the fair opened this week. It's weird that he's not in focus and the things behind him are. On Monday, he took to truth social to post a rhetorical question to his followers there, asking, do you think people appreciate what a fantastic?

job we did in building and operating the Great American State Fair at the National Mall, packed with happy people, and everybody loving it? To be fair, the event was... Oh, sorry, so, so, so sorry. We have to back up. Do you think that Obama or Sleepy Joe Biden could have done it? The answer is no. I suppose I don't think Obama would have done it.

I think he... I think I could do it. I feel like... Well, look, I think that it makes perfect sense. for any president to do something like this. Yeah, and to do a bad job is also. It's just a fair celebrating the like 250th. So I kind of can't think of anything more kind of iconically American than fucking up something really easy.

Like then whiffing on like an easy slam dunk. They just had that Trump UFC event and that people went to that. Though I mean that at least has like a that's like a fan base and utility that's being pushed through. Plus tons of the audience is just military. Yeah, like, and of a certain body fat percentage. Oh, yeah, they were literally recruiting military members to fill the audience. Only that was their rule. They had to be jacked.

That's interesting. Also, it's one of those things where he said packed in like photos and videos exist. And it's like, you can't like do. It's like a weird like 1984 type thing where it's like they're telling you something that disagrees with what your eyes see or whatever. But with like no, it's kind of the, it's, I wonder if like, I don't know, if you're on the younger side, but still like, have been, you know, aware enough to experience and see how bad the Trump administration's been, I wonder if you can conceive of a time where they, people found this really charming because they did. That is what gave him a lot of motion in 2016 Was that this like these weird big statements with no backing And this like panopticon nonsense 1984 bullshit

It was like charming to people because it was so absurd Yeah Then we went past the Ovidden window where it became like Well he's the president so I guess it's not just absurd I guess it's also right is what a lot of people were playing on Yeah Now we're kind of past the Uncanny Valley and people are like No he's a clown I mean you know he's our clown

So I'm still on that side. And this is like, well, not good enough. I think that is weird to me is like, wouldn't you just like pay people or make the military go? The military here. Yeah.

But the UFC fighters here. Yeah. That's kind of why I'm like a little confused. Maybe the booths are huge. There's like thousands of people. I think one of the biggest things that I've just been kind of been hearing is that it's just kind of lame. Yeah.

Like there's not a lot to see. It's also, there's a huge heat wave in like the Northeast right now. True. And so it's very, very hot. There is one air conditioned tent there. That is very lame. It's mostly filled with like ad like sponsored booths like AT&T and shit.

And then my pillow. The best part of that tent is what they're about to show in this video. I don't see any food. I feel like this would be a great opportunity to have like clam chowder from. Yeah. Absolutely. And things. Because even like, let's say there were a ton of people here, right?

The big cavity in the middle of all the booths just looks bad. It just looks empty, doesn't look joyful. Well, it looks beautiful. The actual grounds. I'm like, wow, look at that unwalked upon grass. I'm here with the, uh, for the national endowment for the arts. Abraham Lincoln question mark. So he's, he's in the air condition tent.

Hell yeah. Oh my. Um, he should be. Look at those flags. Yes. Yeah. It would be messed up to put him in a booth, if you know what I'm saying. Yeah, be careful.

He's behind bulletproof glass. Like a bank. Bulletproof glass behind him. You need to pick helmet. See, that was created long after your presidency, but you approve? Oh, I definitely approve of the arts. Are you kidding? The current...

I talked the other day on a cloud. I was up there talking to John Kennedy, and he is so happy. He's... I think this is... wonderful. I think it is wonderful. The seeds that were sown 250 years ago have finally blast them, have been growing and growing and growing and growing and spreading and finally blossomed. The famously charismatic leader, right? Also, I'm sorry, they had they had Abraham Lincoln talked to John Kennedy. John Kennedy. Just those two talk. A lot of cultural crossover. What is this

a crossover episode? That is like so, I mean also, I don't know, I know we don't have like probably ways to say what he sounded like, but... I know, literally I was Googling if there's any recordings of... It was not one that... I think he, like, had actually, like, a pretty high voice. That's what I heard, too. Okay, so Lincoln died 12 years before the invention of the phonograph. That's interesting.

He would have loved music. Well, here's the thing, though. We have Impressionists. Like, we should have gotten some Impressionists on the Phonograph. You're like, you're like, you know, Lincoln Be Like, and then everybody's like, yeah, dude, he's exactly like that. Why the hell did they make, they got like a Nathan for you impersonate a guy? Yeah. He voted a scam.

Well, what did he say? He just mispronounced almost every single word in his setup. Brett Michaels, young MC, the Commodores, and Morris Day in the time pulled out from their spots on the lineup after it was announced because they didn't know that it was going to be a partisan event put on by Trump's Freedom 250 organization. Yeah. So while you're in Washington, are you going to maybe check out Ford's Theater, see what's happened to it since 1860?

No, no, no, no. I don't go near there anymore. I like that that implies he's back pretty often. Yeah, I don't go near there anymore. I'm not feeling that. I'm catching up on movies, mostly, actually. Yeah, I'm mostly looking at the pictures. I'm watching the second season of the Game of Thrones.

I assume it's going to get better and better. Yeah, dude. I just watched the first episode. I love the Stark guy. He would just see his name. Send me back to heaven. The show sucks. Oh, RIP.

He would have loved recordings. He would have loved recordings, man. I don't think I have a strong enough mold of what would be represented by 90% of the booths. And I don't think the American education system is robust enough where most people would. So outside of like my state, I don't know what I'd be going for. Well, that's the thing. Normally, in a fair, you like have like a, you go, okay, here's how people are going to walk, you know, and we're going to put all the attractions. Yeah.

And we're going to make sure that like some, some people get grabbed by this, by the get yourself a funnel cake. And then some people get grabbed by the throw baseball at the thing and win a prize. Shoot Lincoln in the head. Yeah. And there's just none of that. And it's just like booths, booths in a line. Did I see one sad looking all white fairs, woo? There's one ride and it's a Ferris wheel and it apparently has the only line in the place and has several times been out of service.

Wow. The most easy to operate. It's not even a vehicle. Someone said Costco is busier than this, but like Costco is quite busy. Like Costco is quite busy. Yeah. It's also full of hostile architecture. I wouldn't even put, yeah, that's like putting too high of a bar on this on this fair.

Yeah, this is closer to the density of the strip mall I went to go and get a massage out recently and halfway through when I did not request this level of firmness. It's just kicking my ass. Like, I understand, is this at, where is it? It's at the national mall, which is like by the White House. Yeah, in D.C. Okay, I understand like if it's, if you're going for like a White House theme, you know, all the everything's pristine white tents, white, bearish wheel, blah, blah, blah. White attendee. Like, like Ferris wheel, famously, the, the, the.

easiest thing to make like very colorful and very fun. It looks cute. You're going to a fair. You're going to colorful. Red, white, and blue, even. Do something. That's true. This is crazy. It looks like it's supposed to be like a scale model. It looks like a

It's like a white picket Ferris wheel. It's a suburban Ferris wheel. So the Freedom 250 Instagram account had originally posted this photo of some of the performers. Shame gillis.

On Instagram. Shame gillis. And it was high enough resolution that people were able to zoom into the sunglasses of the guitarist. Oh, that's very funny. And see that there was comments. Oh, my God. So few people in the crowd. And then once people started posting it out, they deleted it and reposted it where he dropped out.

That's funny. I thought they would AI. So there's like a billion people. They're going to place the sunglasses with Coachella. Yeah. Justin Bieber doing his Coachella said in the sunglasses. It makes it even funny that she's pointing to someone. She's pointing to 10% in the audience.

There we are. I see you. Thank you so much for coming. All right. Well, I got a guy got to get over there. It looks like it's hopping. Time's right. One of the other things.

Is this still rocking? Oh, yeah. So it started this week and they're running until July 10th. Oh, my Lord. Speaking of AI, what is happening in this photo? So this is a mock-up of Trump's planned Arc de Trump or whatever. And so this was like the mock-up, and this is what it actually looks like. I do love the, oh my God.

God, this is exactly like the Barbie event. Yeah. Where they said it would be a full-scale or like a house that you could walk around and then it just turned out to be a car. You know, wait, can you go back to that? It's really funny when you can tell they planned for longer lines. Yeah. Yeah, these empty barricades. Yeah.

They got the Shrek, the Shrek structure. And at this point, do they make everyone loop around the whole way? Or do they sadly move one aside? Isn't that the worst when you, like, go into a Chipotle? And it's like, there's no one there, but you have to like walk or through all the like lines. They can hear your footsteps. Yeah. I did.

Pact is so funny. Merch beer food. It's interesting. seeing all of these like like hyper hyper hyper moderate sources unable to even kind of play the game and just be like quote packed like that's not something okay this is something here's their mock up oh it's a mock up again well i was like there's sorry you are trump and you have the biggest ego ever and you have this mock up of this grand thing that you have all the money in the world and you are letting it with your ego you're letting it look like that it looks like it's crazy it made it out of

Origami. Jacob could print a much better version of this to scale. I just think it's the one thing he loves more than hoarding wealth and creating idols for himself is screwing over contractors. Oh, true. That's an old pastime of this. He got such a rush. Did I read a headline that Trump disclosed $1.2 billion in crypto earnings?

Did you congrats. How do that? Wise business mind. Trump's financial disclosure lists 1.4 billion in crypto earnings powered largely by, is this going to be Trump coin? Meme coins. Yippie. Awesome. Yeah, I must, I'm alive and that's good.

Yeah. Yeah. This is winning. This is the time not to explode. So Anastasia saw this TikTok and thought it was crazy. And then we clicked into some of these accounts and they're awesome. No, this is crazy. This is like Jesus influencers, I suppose.

Which is like, look, man, I've said it before and I'll say it again. He is my savior. This episode of Sad Boys is brought to you by Zoc Doc. Have you ever put off making an appointment because of like phone anxiety or phone tag? You keep calling them and they're calling you back and you're missing it, only to find out that the next available appointment is months away. Yes, and I told you that in private. Well, Zop Doc is a free service that helps you find in book appointments with a doctor that fits your needs.

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Thanks to Zocdoc for sponsoring this episode. I'm just like, I, you know, religion can be so awesome for so many people. and I've seen that like the community and like the value that people in my life loved ones for me have had in religion. But when we when we start hitting the Jesus influencer stuff, when we start doing the sketch comedy about that feeling when you sneak Jesus into a non-religious combo, first of all, don't sneak Jesus into a non-religious combo. I don't like that. And also you ain't that slick. I noticed you do it. Yeah, we know you're doing it.

It's not slick at all because we never talk about Jesus. And I know that I know that your job is doing TikToks about Jesus. Yeah. Yeah, the friend who's like Jesus guy on TikTok, he'll, they'll never expect when I slip Jesus into this. We're talking about like how stranger things fell off and he's just like, I guess. You know, we never fell off. He was stuck right on there. Yeah.

He nailed it. Relax. Okay. So. Oh, okay. No, no, no, no. So we're... Oh, it's all the same thing.

So what we're doing is we're roofying drinks. Uh, yeah. And that's... And that's a super fun and funny way to, like, illustrate your metaphor. I think it's, it's, this was, it took you guys being more kind of astute to, to help me figure out exactly what the fuck this was. Because initially, I really thought, like, the point was. I'm posting religiously, or I guess I'm posting, comma, religiously.

And I like Jesus. I think he's epic. And he picked up that boulder or whatever and killed all those fish. He did all that stuff. And someone else is bringing him into a non-religious topic, which is insulting, you know, it's blasphemy or whatever. Like you're using Jesus, but not in a religious context. I thought that was them like, hey, this is you,

roofing me. And I'm like, okay, that's really bad. That's a really bad statement. But it made it's like, what if I was the roofier? What if I was the criminal in all this? Sneaking Jesus into conversation feels just as good as date. Yeah, like what the fuck? That is so weird. And then also how it feels. Do you feel good about this? Do you feel bad about this? Do you feel guilty? Do you feel? What do you mean how it feels? Sneaky? I guess how it feels is that you're getting away with doing a horrible crime. Yeah, you think it's really bad or you think this is fine.

Okay, well, what is this? Because if I had to think of, I don't know, if you got me to brainstorm a hundred sneaky things, I'd think this would maybe be in the 200 somewhere. I don't think I would get it. It's like these are bad things. I don't think you want to connect speaking about your faith with doing a horrible crime. Yeah. Make a sketch about like walking, doing that big, really long leg walk that Scooby-Doo and Shaggy do, so they're like quiet.

Yeah, there we go. The Indiana Jones swapping the idol for the sandbag. Yeah, pulling down the tablecloth and like keeping all the plates on. I guess they already had rohypnal on them, so they could just use that for the sketch. But I do like that we are, I like that we are addressing that in the words too, because it is like, it is that. Yeah. Okay, but let's, maybe this person, the, the person is commenting. Commenting on it, let's hear what they have to say.

If you think it's okay to compare sharing your religion with roofying somebody, that tells me everything I need to know about you in your religion. I don't think it tells me about your religion. I will take issue with that. I think it tells me about how this person treats their religion in their life because some people are very dogmatic, I guess. And also some people are like used their religion as like a lever of past. And maybe they've accidentally made a really good metaphor here for how people use religion to enforce power over other people.

Yeah, they've created a remarkable kind of allegory by accident. I feel exactly the clarity. I feel exactly the same way about religion and Christianity in particular as I do about the amazing digital circus. Where I have no interest in it. People seem to be really into it. I don't probably intend on ever watching slash reading it. And it seems like a lot of people get really angry about it pretty often. And Reddit is crazy about it.

But you to you, that clown, people seem to really like the clown character. I don't. I don't know anything about the digital circus thing. Is it Pondmy or POMNI? POMNI. M. N. People love POMney. And that's good.

And when you sneeze, they say, bless, probably. This kind of feels like all of these men feel comfortable making this joke about roofying. Like, they know it's bad. They're looking around in their surroundings as they do this act out. The thing that's bad is that it's sneaky. It's like, I wonder. No, literally, like, I'm like, would like the, how this is obviously bad, like, hit them on the head if it was like, hey, what if you were just like stealing a TV out of someone's house? Is that something you understand?

Yeah, is that? It's like. But that affects you. So it's like. I just don't get it, man. Like, what do you mean? I won't draw a direct parallel to like, I think these guys do this necessarily, right? Like that's a crazy leap and like content, whatever.

It's more, it's more to speaks to how a lot of men feel comfortable joking about men joking about how women don't feel safe, you know, in spaces with them. It's like, you'll hear like a woman say like, oh, I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving my drink around this person, right? or having to the actual fear of just being out and needing to mind your drink at all times and not taking the risk if you left your drink unattended. Yes. Because of the very real like risk of someone doing something tampering with your drink.

And it's just being like, it's just being like a cartoon. Yes. Like it's like a cartoon concern to these people. We've talked about it a lot in the past, but like punching up, punching down, it's easy to make it a generic idea and kind of oversimplify comedy or whatever. But in this particular case, I think it applies pretty well. The thing isn't even that funny because the target and the gun are in the wrong order. Like, as invert all pieces here and it's a member of a community that doesn't feel safe,

referencing the fact that when people sneak religion into a conversation, it feels like they're doing this. because then it's like you know that the people in the community know how severe it is and are like parodying something that genuinely is a concern for them as opposed to kind of just like limply taking this thing and being like I mean I don't care so I guess I'll just joke about it does that make sense it's like yeah like it's not funny because you don't get it yes yes and this doesn't stand up to like in then what also it's just like in so yeah it is a I've one of four. You know what I mean?

Like, okay, what is? So then what do you do? So why do people do this? They're just redoing the same sketch. That also pisses me on. I don't understand. Is that what a trend is? I've seen someone, I've seen someone just completely rip someone else's skit and never

acknowledge that they ripped someone else's like very funny, like a comedic bit. Man, is it just because what all that matters is the post? It's like. I did. It's like, yeah, dude, who knows. All right, we got a guy. Oh, wow. It's the guy.

It's this guy we have now. From everything? Oh, look, it's the guy from content. Oh, my God, dude. Sorry, can we start at Christian rap greater than? Respect. Burning in my soul. No, I won't have a foe.

This child ain't for sale. In Christ, I am soul. Be bold is what they say. Be bold is what I do. The devil in hell with head. phones on going like, what the fuck? This is ass, bro. Get this off me.

This is so, like, it's, the music is so bad. And they rhymed nary a time. God's doing it. I was like, whoa, what, what, we, we used to have to rhyme and rap music. Maybe it was, uh, it's written in Latin and it just doesn't translate. It's just literally all it had was the cadence. It's like.

God is really good Devil is really bad Look out for that devil. I am a god In my car All right cool, yeah That's awesome man I drive me Veeve

Oh wow This is the whole Oh this is the artist Oh it's his music No it is somehow a different guy It's a different guy Oh sorry I just I thought he just had a slightly

different haircut Now they're making Same aisle We'll put it that way Christian rapges hits different In that it's bad It hits different And that you don't like it

The way it sounds. It hits different like a truck. Wait, hold on. Insane title. Rapper shows up to worship night, but God shows up. Oh, he did? Evo logo. This is fully bullying because this person is a small creator.

He did nothing wrong. He did nothing wrong. It's just funny. I've said all the things about, you know, church and religion. A place I do draw the line is mega churches. They just give me a ache. I actually, I refuse to have a, pardon the pun, good faith conversation about mega churches because I just don't believe that anybody that supports them is not either naive

or corrupt because I and I think it's completely okay to have been tricked like no hate but I put it in the same bucket of Scientology I think they're indistinguishable my family is religious I'm I'm not personally um but it was in like a weird way when I was in high school because like sometimes we'd go to church sometimes it was never like really like devoted but like like you're Wow, great word. There's some words like feeble that I feel like are only used in meek. Meek, feeble. So we would go like, you know, like Easter or Christmas Eve or whatever.

So we went to a Christmas Eve service. And I was already out of not paying attention because I'm not religious. I'm thinking about my presents. I want to go make cookies. And it was the typical if you have ever been to a megachurch. I feel like a lot of small ones do it too. but every, almost every Christmas Eve service is just like telling the story of baby Jesus and like all the way through to his crucifixion and coming back all the.

Um, that's a lot. It's a lot. They would summarize a lot. But, um, towards the end of it, they were like, all right, everyone about your heads, we're going to do, uh, we're going to pray. Um, and they were saying like, say, like, say this prayer with us either out loud in your head. Like, um, and if you have not been saved yet, this is prayer is what will save you, you will believe in Jesus Christ and this is what will save you and get you into heaven. So they were saying, if you say this prayer, you will get into heaven. Uh-huh. And that's, so everyone.

Do you remember it? So everyone, so they say the prayer. And then it's, and they're like, all right, everyone. Now, raise your hands if you were saved tonight. A lot of people raise their hands. And they said, if you were saved here tonight, you're getting a free t-shirt. And then everyone started going fucking crazy. And then somebody comes down with a t-shirt gun at it was like, pop, pop,

I was expecting that. And I was just like, I was in there. I was like, what the fuck is. I thought, I thought they were going to like be like, you should, uh, tithe. You should give us like money. Oh, they probably did that too. It was like,

it was a cheap guilden print t-shirt and it was, you had to get $5,000 together. Getting a t-shirt that you don't want is like, one of the worst fee. I'd be like, oh, I'm not safe. What do I do with this? I take it back. I can I,

I, I don't want it. I'm saying the prayer in reverse. I'm saying the prayer in reverse. I was kidding. I do, by the way, I love the idea of being somebody who is at least like involved enough in the faith to go to church for Christmas Eve, do the prayer that the priest is like, this will save you by the way. And then when they ask for feedback, being the one dentist that's like the nine out of ten say it's great for your teeth, being the guy's like, I don't think that got me. Not putting you out of anything. No, it didn't land for me.

I think I'm still going to help. Wait, sorry. I just remembered. And I guess I have more megaturch stories than I thought. I just remembered we were at a different church. And I was in like the kids program. And they were doing like those song worship time. And I was a very shy.

Oh, I thought. I thought it was a song called worship time. Worship time. But I like, I was a very shy. One last call for Jesus. Worship time. All right. I can see that loading.

Yeah. I was a very shy kid. And also I didn't care about being in church. And so I wasn't singing along. And I was also embarrassed to be singing along. And one of the like, they, in my head, I thought they were like much older and wiser, but they were probably a teen. And they like, slipped me a 10. So I would sing.

That's awesome. And I was like, hell yeah. Hold on, dude. I think you were getting like, like chastised. Why aren't they doing that at the, uh, the America fair? They just have a t-shirt canvas full of money. Yeah. All right, let's lock in on some of these.

These bang or TikToks, dude. When you're trying to worship God, but your playlist is on shuffle. God, you are so good. Thank you for today. Thank you for putting breath in my love. Thank you for waking me up this morning. God, you were just so good. Thank you for the day, Lord.

Thank you for the day. No worries. No worries, mate. You are so good, God. Yep, I heard you. It's a bit weird. Oh! I'm so sorry, God!

Turn this up! Wait, is, you're not... Like, God doesn't want you to listen to Genuine? Yeah, he's not feeling it. Christian rap more than that. It's really funny to be... I didn't... Again, I'm not entrenched enough in the religion.

I am enjoying the idea that the worship happens during the, like, instrumental outro. Yeah. Like, Stan. I do think it's funny because, Like, now I'm thinking of the meta of all of this, which is he had the idea for this bit, wasn't prepared for how long the outro of the song was. It just needed to say a bunch of shit before ponies started. Shout out God.

Still love, I mentioned it already, but I still love you and the stuff you do. Ooh, 30 seconds. Okay. What's up? I heard about your son. That's fucking sucks. Sorry, dude. That's rough.

But he's home. I would go. And that. By the way, very unsafe way to drive. Eyes closed. Just one hand up. They got these pog. That's some Jesus take the wheel shit.

Yeah, do you know? They just have lane assist. And they're like, oh, Jesus is back. Yeah. I love when Jesus appears and there's a green wheel symbol. I will take a gamer, please. Oh, no. We're a Christian game studio.

Oh, no, it's this one. In game studio. Of course we're making a Bible. Oh, I've seen this. The Pharisees are on me, they're behind me, they're throwing stones at me. Right now. We got to get out of here right now. They're being possessed man on my right.

I'm praying over him right now. He's cracked, he's cracked, he's casted out. Another one to my left. All right, I'm preyed up, my shields are full, my sword of the spirit is charged. I'm ready to go in for the boss fight. Just slaying them in the spirit, just slaying them in the spirit. I need backup. He's kind of bad at that, at that trend, and I did see, wait, hold on.

I don't think, I'm just gonna guess, because it's the biggest entertainment industry on the planet. I'm gonna guess he does and has played video games. Why is he playing it like a parent pretending? Because he's on the TikTok, he's making a movie. Yeah, you're right. Of course, we're a Christian podcast. Also, the Christian video game is really hard. Oh, that's right.

A lot of buttons and wrong. You have to go really fast. It's a QTE to get off the cross and you have to fail. You can't. I would assume that there's not like a lot of... Well, I was going to say that. I was going to say not a lot of combat. There is a lot of fighting in the Bible.

Yeah. You can charge up your alt to turn a city to assault. You have to fight Goliath. Yeah, maybe it rocks. How do you do like, yeah, flirty, horny. Oh, my God. The comments are like some of the most hateful. No drug addict, disrespectful, unprioritizing girlfriend, independent guy.

Just please, just a man of God. Shockingly few people saying amen. That would be the perfect. That's like the cop-out answer for any of these. It's like the Christian equivalent of, um, this. Me the moment I get to heaven and see all the people from the Bible. Oh, okay. Yep.

Okay. Yep, fraction too long. All right. Well, that hopefully didn't get too sacrilegious. I mean, Christian podcasts greater than, you know what I mean? Yeah, hopefully not too blasphemous, the blasphemy boys. Look, we said it. We're not religious, but it seems, the guy seems pretty tight.

Like the powers and stuff, like the one from those ones. Yeah, all right, let's get out of here. Let's do something more fun. Like man. Let's talk man. Man. What the fuck was it called? Man.

Huh? Man camp. Man camp. One time? Man camp. Now, I don't know anything about this damn man camp. But I like what I'm hearing. Well, I can tell.

Maybe that's a compliment. I don't know. I went to a five thought. So by the way, this is like the third time we've talked about something like this. Yeah, about man making camp. It took a surprise. What's surprising turn? do we think it could have taken?

It's not implicitly kind of conservative and sexist. I feel like maybe it's like it was just men seeking community and they found that it cost them $500,000 to make a friend.

Oh, and it's in California as opposed to like it's always in Greece usually. Right, right, right. It's like an Ibithan oil reserve that they... Ibithin is funny. Ibiza practice camp or something. Or it's like a boot camp in nowhere, Texas.

Yeah. You have to eat sand to prove that you should have friends or something. A journalist from CNN did this piece on several different sort of man camps. But this one in Sonoma was different in that it's run by women. Is that the surprising turn? And so the surprising turn is that it's supposed to be like healing men from toxic masculine type thoughts. Okay. By any means necessary.

Surgery. Electroshock. $5,000 man camp, though, still concerns me. I guess meet people where they are. They're like, there's all these men willing to spend $5,000 on a camp. Let's make one that can reverse their programming. Let's catch the bullet on that one. Right.

So it's called pivot, and it's in Sonoma. It's a Y combinator company. It's an I instead of it all, sort of thing. Oh, my God. I do like the, the, here. hand on the man's thigh and on his back because that makes me feel like feelings are happening. Yes. And like it's, oh my God, wait a second. If there's a counterweight to the manosphere, this is it. Okay, I don't know about that. The project is because I, because I don't think that we're

solving the manosphere with $5,000 man can. And also it's like atomic bomb versus camp baby. The project is a brainchild of a woman. I do feel worried also about the, I mean, hopefully, it works, but the people who are brainwashed by this type of thing don't feel like they'd be the most open to a woman's opinion. Yeah, it seems on manhood. The counterweight to maybe before they get into the Manosphere pipeline. Yeah, which I mean, look, I am all for countering the Manosphere. I am generally concerned about $5,000 camps for anything.

Okay. Mostly female roster of coaches. Glass says her camps provide disillusioned men a better way forward. Love that. She works directly to understand and reframe her participants' understanding of masculinity. Cool. But it's a lonely fight for every five men who enter her camp, tens of millions watch influencers like Andrew Tate, Aidan Rossimer.

That's what I'm saying. Who prets the importance of making money, getting ripped and emotionally dominating their wives and girlfriends. I, okay, I don't. So yes. However, it is interesting to me that they have framed those three things as like, the pillars of, like the harmful pillars of manhood. Because getting ripped, who cares, making money, who cares.

It's the emotionally dominating their wives and girlfriends part that I feel like we should be... The DLC at the end of the list. Yeah. I mean, it's also like, yeah, it's prescribing that as the competition kind of diminishes any value this we have, right? It's like, like, if people are like, yeah, I enjoy the Sad Boys podcast. But like, I don't know, compared to the entire. a country of Canada. That does a lot more than just SEP. I'm like, well, yeah, but that's like a country. Yeah. And I'm again, just like what is the addressable community of $5,000 camp?

And I would rather if it is like, yeah, this like big bespoke project or even if it's just starting at like less generate more revenue and maybe we make a smaller thing. But actually, this is not even a critique of the camp. This is more a critique of like the framing, the writing here. I think there's been this weird conflation of toxic masculinity and masculine representation with the manosphere as though they are the same thing and not a path to the other. Like this idea that like we need to get in there to stop men's natural behavior of harassing women.

Hold on. That's not where it like starts. Most people with those like toxic masculine traits aren't in the manifesteria. It just so happens that a bunch of people are. Again, it's like hard to get maddened. at this, I think what's annoying is the coverage of it as if it's a salve. Yes. You know what I mean?

Because it's cool. I'm glad. It's like you watch Love Island and it's like pretty obvious who's watching listening to Manosphere podcasts. Yes. You know what I mean? And I'd rather like regardless of what the camp is, it's financial situation, the demo, whatever, I am pretty universally in support of people having conversations in a community

of people trying to get better. Yeah. Now, the content of those conversations is almost immaterial to me because that's up to the people involved. But like, the not celebrating the, okay, maybe this is a crazy, wacky wild statement. I do think for a lot of guys, especially of like our age and a fraction older, maybe, literally speaking to women that you don't have some kind of like transactional expectation or. or intent is like transformative. If you haven't done it, you don't work with any women that aren't like, you don't directly manage or expect like secretarial work.

Having a friend, having a female friend who is not a object of your desire. Or wife of a friend. Or like, yeah. Like, I do think that's, it's always. Because people, some of those people don't believe that can exist or is allowed. Yeah. And I'm sure, you know, don't get me wrong. Plenty of people will.

get a female therapist and then not be able to make that disconnect because because their own hangups. I don't know. I would hope that it is encouraging this. It's always encouraging to see the like hand on the leg and then not the pause. Freaking. Pause, dude. Just Jill. Whoa, dude.

But he's scared off. Adam Goetz. Okay. Yeah. What's what else is going on? Men are struggling less tell CNN. Some lack positive leaders, she says. Others get cancelled too quickly, she believes.

Employment opportunities are drying up for many, and others learn from an early age, not stuck with their feelings, to her, it all adds up to one thing. Throughout the country and across all age groups, men are having a hard time. Sure. This is interesting. Yeah.

What is it? What's the smell? I... What is it? What's getting me? It could be the fact that it's a $5,000 camp. Maybe it is that. Can I also say that the other thing that's annoying to me is

that this if there's a counterweight to the atmosphere, this is it. It is absolutely not it. And it does not a counterweight. It is not a counterweight to be. You know what I mean? Just from a scale standpoint, you can not consider that. You're like saying compared to the ocean, this like glass of water is a counterweight.

The counterweight is other streamers. They have to, it has to be in the same ring that you can't, you know. You've got to meet people where they are. But I mean, not to say this isn't serving a value or a need for people. I think it's also, no, it's not. Maybe it's partially because of the finance, but I think it's noticeable that these are all guys, sort of middle-aged dudes, or largely. And that is actually a demographic, though not necessarily a demographic, that was taken

this path by Andrew Tate. It is nice to see older men who still want to, like, learn and better themselves. That's good. I like that. I think one of my biggest pet peeves is people who feel, like, kind of calcified in their beliefs and feel like they can't change or don't want to. That's what that actually is like a influential demographic or, like, like, influential group that I think goes a little underappreciated is people who, like, people at like a kind of parental age, guys at a parent, at least implied parental age.

Blessings upon you in the name of Christ. Thank you. Maybe because there wasn't a default father figure as a kid. Receiving advice or just even like positive approval from a respectable, healthy, progressive or even just like kind of like non-hostile political. or ideologically a older guy. I think that's the most impactful, at least to my behavior in relationship, from any external figure,

has been someone who is like, oh, I can grow up and be that. That's actually the end of it. And they're like happy, in whatever kind of success I wanted, I'm seeing that. And they also don't care about, like, how they sit or what their walk looks like.

Or like, how are 20? I did have, like, in middle school I was in like a mentorship program and I did have a older man as my like mentor and that was like really the first time that I had any direct

like conversations with a elder man and that was nice cool guy I think it just feels like I mean I'll be honest with you even now if there's one guy that it feels good to get a joke over with it is a like

surrogate father type individual. True, true. Like crushing with like a guy in his late 50s. I'm like, I'm the best and I am a man. I will say one time John Green told me he was proud of me and it, I thought about it for weeks. You're still kind of, oh my God. I got a screenshot, yeah. So don't try and delete it, John. It's done. It's done. It's already in there. And if, and if you delete it, I'll recreate it with Photoshop. If you're an aggregate, a world where you kept it. Some might say that we're going to a camp that would counter toxic masculinity, is it fair to say?

I think that's what they're trying to do. A long week in a British people. What a British people? Talk might be the push some men need. Others choose a different path. A group of women is going to try and teach us how to be better men. Us included.

For months, my London-based comment. Yeah, they're like the journalists. Oh, interesting. Okay. I guess they're doing establishing conversation for the video. I see. Because I was just like, wow, these are sort of oddly engaged just took up presentational dudes. I do.

I do. It's like I was talking about this just from framing it the way that, you know, the ideal toxic man may view it. But he did, the journalist also said it like, a group of women are going to teach us how to be better men. And it's like, okay, that, yes, that can happen. Absolutely. I, my first thought is that how receptive is the average manosphere, person going to be to the messenger. But I don't know.

I mean, like, yeah, I guess that was just like a, it's just a thought. Those are a group of therapists are the ones to, you know. Yeah. Yeah, it's not just ladies. Professional women will be teaching us. They will be teaching us womanly. Rob Pichetta has been digging into efforts to counter toxic masculinity, which is what brings us on a two-hour road trip outside San Francisco into wine country,

Sonoma, California. I'm very impressed, Rob. staying on the right side of the road. So far. Oh shit, I missed another turning. You're doing great with this GPS. We were told to be here. This is a fucking Marvel movie?

Yeah. Did Joe Sweden write this movie? Yeah, I was like, yeah, you guys have that much extra space in this story for all these bits. Hey, nice driving. Hey, stick to the journalism, guys. Maybe put your hands on the wheel. He literally just jimmed the camera.

Just like London. I need some shade and some aircon and some rain. It's beautifully, quite. but it's also unnerving at the same time. Maybe it's that we've spent so much time together, but I'm like the bit of like referring to a guy being British over and over again. I'm like, shut up. Like it's like, oh my God, yeah, we get it, dude.

He's from the tea, the land of the tea. We get it. Oh my God. Yeah, I guess you don't see too much of the sun here in London, huh? Hey, you're driving on the right side of the road. You're doing pretty good. I live here. I live here.

Okay. But yeah, no, I did grow up different, I guess. Yeah, I grew up different. It's fine. You call me. We really are here to support you and also get out what you came to be able to work on. A five-day workshop. This one, men only. Though Lori Jean Glass runs them for women and couples, too.

She created the Pivot Program, as it's called. And most of the other coaches here are also women. I don't, like, I don't want to project any bad vibes. but I am trying to figure out where the the weird smell a little bit is coming from and it could be like like when they were like oh this person runs a lot of these for various groups I'm like oh this may just be like this person's making money hand over fist on the shit about this matter this type of well I just feel like it the the person who like a singular like kind of guru that like runs all these like things like things. Like that always self-help books Yeah It feels like it's like in it it hits a Like oh you're one of those

And it comes to a very specific slide show And has a brand logo that is I also I'm getting triggered by just like the Graphic design Which is not fair of me It just really Especially like pivot It just reminds you

No no no I yeah it's tricky because it's like I want I don't want to be Maybe I'm of the people But I'm just like there's so many people who are not going to be able to, like, first of all, not only pay the $5,000, but the opportunity cost of, like, not working. Going to Sonoma and like. And then going to what beautiful wine country?

Like, I wouldn't even mind if this was a project that was just, you know, in the case of couples counseling, even if it's financially prohibitive and then even just individual counseling, sure, you have options that would not cost as much, but I guess you're in a position where that's viable and maybe for whatever reason you think this one would be better. When it's like, we're doing this to fight back against this thing, and you know, there's some costs we got to cover. I'm like, no, you can't be the hero and then the fighter. Other thing they mentioned like Aidan Ross, Andrew Tate, Myron Gaines,

none of the people in that room know who those people are. Oh my God. You know what I mean? Like those aren't the audience of that. So it's like, I'm like, are you reaching the people who are being impacted by those types of voices? Like, because I don't want to, I don't want to poo-poo something that could be helping people, obviously. The two people that could ever have ended up in that pipeline are the people doing office reactions. Yeah, yeah.

Which, that's going to be a crazy. What color is your boogie? Hey? Yeah. That just happened. All right, let's see. Jeff came bracing for an empty nest, hoping to strengthen his relationship with his wife once the kids are gone. Jason has recently lost his wife to breast cancer,

and Matt's father died just weeks before this retreat. Oh, a lot of grief counseling. That makes sense. And that's awesome. But that sounds like grief counseling. Yes, which I pray it works and it looks positive. But that is quite literally almost as far as you can be. I'm just trying to come back to this is the salve for the manosphere.

Is it toxic masculinity to be scared about missing your kids? I mean, maybe for this generation, I guess preemptively, that one makes a lot of sense to me because it's like, when we talk about toxic mentally, we tend to pivot towards it being like projected outwards, but really it's as equally about it. The reason it's bad is because it is like, it has no utility at all.

It's the elements of masculine performance that just hurts everyone all the time, including yourself. And one of those is like, yeah, suppressing your personal ability to grieve, grow, et cetera, and then often like it eventually breaks containment and the steam's hot and it hits the people around you. So like preparing for, you know, I don't even really know what the branding should be for empty nest syndrome.

I think we apply that to mothers exclusively. Sure, yeah, definitely. Definitely, definitely. And like, maybe that's ingrained sexism in my mind or rather just like oversimplification and saying like, yeah, women, you know, they're natural cares. So when the kids leave, it breaks their brain. But like, yeah, no, it makes everyone sad.

But I think that like, he just doesn't want to be. For example, we started this podcast that is like a podcast that is like, hey, we're going to talk about our feelings and there's a lot of toxic masculinity out there. Manosphere didn't exist. So it would be like if we were retroactively saying our podcast is like the South for the Manosphere. Because it's like these people generationally are dealing with like stage like like a like a preexisting toxic masculinity. and like kind of patriarchal expectations upon upon men. For reasons. Which have always existed.

There's things that they're also tackling, like active, I'm preparing for this thing or I'm dealing with this thing, as opposed to the kind of like banality of evil. Andrew Tate sneaks into people subconscious because they're bored and lonely. It's not, it's not because normally because they're actually struggling with anything. What this actually is the sell for is those other toxicly masculine boot camps, where they're, they're aggressively hugging. Yeah. Or like having to throw their sons across the field or whatever.

How far can you throw your son? It's like this is, you know. Yeah, this is the antithesis to that. Yeah. I don't know that it has anything to do with Hinder Tate. I'm curious what you. It's just like all they're supporting evidence. Like it seems like the whole supporting argument is for something else.

Like it's like not. Yeah. What's, I'm curious for your. thoughts on this. I don't think we've ever talked about it, but like, I am sometimes self-conscious in relates, in relation to sad boys when, like, it's nice when people reach out and like say something nice or they enjoy the show and things like that, but specifically when people, I think, reach out and talk about how they appreciate specifically the like, saying this stuff to push back against the Manosphere and like get people out of that.

pipeline and like, I don't think we are naive enough to think that we are getting to them that quick. Like the majority. For sure. I would like to do that splash damage and catch a few. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think the like the desire to see someone fighting. The people who are too far gone already see us as soy. Yes. So they don't like click in. We, I don't have the, uh, uh, uh, grift agility to like get into their space and then pull them out. It's like, it is, it is something. that would like I want like if someone's um if someone's not fully bought in and they aren't off put by our soy demeanor then yeah maybe that can yeah well it's like maybe that that can be helpful but yeah it is kind of hard to reach a certain type of that person because it they've already

been taught that we are the enemy or we're like too far gone ourselves I think that if anything what I'd hope and this is actually not specifically about Saboys, but like for those, for the people stuck in that pipeline, I think the reason that I think about them most is because I was there. Granted, younger than I feel like a lot of manosphere, like actually embedded in the manosphere people, I think of those as more like kind of late teenagers. Yeah. Yeah.

But like the top of the pipeline just flowing through the water, not even realizing what's going on and just being like, yeah, I guess man are this way and I guess women are that way. I mean, no one's really mentioned it. So I guess I'll just go with the traditional position and then like, Hmm, I don't feel like I'm really as part of a community as I want to be. Now, is that to do with me? Yeah. Or, and then, by chance, I fell into a community.

And I don't think that would, at no point did I work for that. Yeah. And that was luck. And now I feel like that's even less likely to happen in general. So that's the, I hold sympathy for that particular, like 13, maybe 14 years old, right at the cusp of having to start performing grown-upness. but not having a good perception of what that is and the closest you have is probably from TV and movies

and that's one of the worst ones you could have. Well, actually, no, it's not true. I guess now it is streams. Streamers and content graders would be the more of the basis. But yeah, that's like, this is like your aunt's interpretation of what the Manosphere is about. Which is, I guess, the CNN audience in 26. I don't know.

Because it's officially hit the mainstream as a term now. And then like Manosphere, you mean like 55 year old Kevin from down the street? Like these guys on CNN, I'm like, you guys should start a podcast. If you think this is a concern about the menacevia, I have some crazy stuff to show you. We do these small retreats with men. It's meant to be a place of respect, understanding, not clinical, not judgmental, and open. Most men today are confused about what it means to be a man. The reality is that I would agree most men are very confused.

For Matt, it starts as a conversation with his dad. All right. It's getting goopy. It's just kind of taking the goop. I like, I've done some things like this where I'm like, okay, look, this is helpful for some people, not always the most helpful for me. There is a great clientele for this, and I'm sure they get a lot. But this is, personally, what I would love is the most clinical. detached data that you could

talk to me about like reprogramming my neural pathways give me some which hey it's just as arbitrary but it is the I don't know if it's just as arbitrary yeah yeah but uh also I'll leave it to other communities to tell me whether

I'm because I'm just not informed or connected enough to any communities that like often get appropriated in like woo woo witchy stuff so I don't know if you know the thing she just dinged in Oh, that's the, uh, this, uh, I want to say the singing bolt. But yeah, but I know if like the source of that is like of a particular culture that is. I think it definitely is and I don't know that it's hers.

I mean, I guess everything is from. It's like when it starts to, you know, like the co-opting of, it's like an all white room where it's like co-opting another culture's like thing. Yeah. Take a look. They've wrote down everyone's name and a fun fact about them. Yeah. I think this is like what they're struggling with. That feels

Oh and then the inverse To me This is what it is like look I think that in any sort of environment like this If you take like a little snapshot It's gonna look kind of wacky and wild Yeah I guess how they presented it It kind of feels like group therapy

And so right so writing everyone's like what they're struggling with Just like on a big like a classroom big notepad Yeah It feels a little I don't know if it I don't know exactly what it's accomplishing to look at the big board and be like, all right, cool. I'm feeling unwanted, so I'm going to have I'm wanted under it. Yeah, that's it, right? Also, it's funny.

Not so much funny. It's a little weird that it's smaller, that you write the thing you feel, and then the other answer is like, no matter. It's like a way smaller. It feels a little bit like if I went to a therapist, and I was like, I think I'm depressed, and she goes outside and pins of a big and that's suppressed to their bulletin board. Weird.

It says, I am not depressed. The thing for me is that I think about, like accessibility and and like yes group group therapy is something that this is like seems similar to and it's something that exists out in the world that maybe doesn't cost five thousand dollars and require a retreat it's also annoying me that the CNN journalists are like 40% of the class yeah don't like of this i kind of feel like just send all i know you can't do epic Dwight and uh jim riffs but it's just yourself but this feels very much like a louis thoreu Detail or not even almost like a like a

POV camera only no presenter Yeah thing because I want to observe I don't I don't know if I was in a documentary about therapy and someone came into my session was like so what did he say? Well I also like I don't have any I don't have much commentary on these people and their own experiences because I think they are like this is a space where they feel like they can Express you know things that they're struggling with and all of that stuff is like valuable introspection and work that's being done.

And it kind of doesn't matter if it's like they paid $5,000 to get through the door. There's maybe a cheaper way to address this, but this is the way they found. It's more just like institutionally, this kind of thing. And then how it's being covered on CNN as like a,

this is like a whole like mini doc, like little piece interest story. It's weird now like where everyone's older than the journalist. Isn't it just kind of weird? Like I'm like looking at it and I'm like, we, this was around. This wasn't.

The only thing is changing someone saying it's new. It like could be a story from 2016 that they just put a bunch of stuff about the Manosphere up top to make it sound like it was from today. They dubbed some keywords. Ripped from today's headlines. But this is actually about, I mean, 2016, great reference. That's certainly the time that I remember like, you know, wearing a pink t-shirt, be like, it's actually fine.

Yeah. That was. I was wearing a lot of pink t-shirts. And I don't know why. Yeah, I was working a lot of pink teeth. I was fighting back against Big Blue. You're welcome, everyone. There was like a moment in time where putting on a pink t-shirt as a man is like, actually, I don't even.

Yeah, what are you going to do about it? What are you going to do about it? Yeah, I'm a man and I wear pink. No, I'm not sitting weird. No, I'm wearing pink. But I'm saying it's fine. So all the other stuff I do, I don't feel bad about it ever. Okay, well, I mean, I wish all of those people the best.

I also Maybe CNN cover A story where people are actually impacted by The people that you mentioned Aiden Rossmeier Gaines Instead of people who've maybe never heard of those people Also they did like it truly did not feel like it was Like coping with like all that

Like grief and the the kind of Issues that people were dealing with Absolutely valid But it just doesn't seem like it's related to the thing that they were saying about the manos. It feels like that's what the story would be, right? Like, what is the current thing? Yeah, it's about that.

If this wasn't like 2017, it'd be like, this all came around because of Hamilton and the MTV. Yeah. I spent the greater part of my evening yesterday transferring Pokemon from my DS, my 3DS onto Pokemon home, and that was very exciting for me. You've become an archaeologist.

I've become an archaeologist of, of time and space, the universes. The younger-Javis- Across regions. Little did younger Javis know that he was contributing to a top, what, 2% global player? Yeah, well, I'm playing, I guess since we've done the pod, we had the Wolfie Invitational, or the Wolf-Championgional hosted by Wolfglic. And we competed. I didn't take home the gold. I took home the silver.

I got second place. But I'm proud of myself. And it was the ideal narrative. It was the ideal narrative. So I'll let people, I'll let people check in on the event if they want. I think the stream is still up. And I think Wolf might be making a video about it. So the storylines will be told.

And there's good stories to be told. But I'm proud of myself. I have been grinding. I love a grind. I love a ladder to grind. Yeah. Has it come at the behest of other grind? Like now is RuneScape on the back burner?

Roonscape is currently on the back burner, but it's, uh, I don't think I can manage, like, RuneScape I could balance with like playing Pokemon just because of like different parts of the mind, I guess, or different parts. There's different, I can play Runecape in a very low-key way and I can't grind. Playing Pokemon feels like chess or playing magic where it's like my brain has to be super active. I'm worse if some of it is. It needs 100%. Yeah, playing, playing.

Playing Pokemon Chapians ranked doubles feels like playing like chess or magic. So I haven't been playing as much magic. I think I'm going to, if I'm going to promote this hobby, I need to demote magic temporarily. I mean, there's only some much. In terms of my active brain, it's like, yeah, it's like I only have room for like one ladder to grind. Yeah, send out one of those like half genuine company emails. It's like, unfortunately, we have hand to let a lot. In Q3, we're deprioritizing this, so it can come back stronger.

We're deprioritizing your access to health care this year. I'm sorry to say. Not that, not that, not that. But it's been, it's been fun. I mean, like, there's so much, I do love, I would say that, like, I do love Pokemon. No, I like being at the stage. I wonder if you relate to this. I love you. And I love being at the stage of something where,

you're there's a fire hose of information but i i still feel like i'm able to drink from the fire hose a little bit and like still be like constantly like filling my brain full of info but i'm not i'm not jaded yet and i'm not i'm still very like new and and it's like an exciting time and like learning a new skill i if that makes sense yeah that area where like it's um past beginner before intermediate maybe advanced somewhere around like i'm proud of where of where I'm at and I believe I can get better without taking some like third path. Like I don't need to now start watching too much meta content. It's about it's a rewarding part of the process and I enjoy watching the meta content because

it's something I can do with the other part of my like if I, my brain is tired because I've been thinking too hard. I can still watch the content. I think that it's the, especially. if something has been around much longer. Like there was a period of time where I was really into, as a spectator, I was really into Tekken. Because it's just such an interesting game and it is like just available options to you at any given moment. The most complicated fighting game imaginable just because of the number of inputs that could conceivably be happening in a huge cast of characters.

There was a point where I was like, I want to get into. playing it and I was having some fun on the ladder. And then I realized like it's such an established community that in order for me to be up against anyone that is not using tech that I physically need to learn, like I need to learn on either on a fight stick, fight pad or something, I feel like I'm being held back by control about it. I don't know how to do that. That's the stage that's like almost pre-beginner that I also don't fuck with.

Because the climb to viable and having to spend like the first month in like wood metal level is a little tricky. With like melee. Like with things that have like a hybrid entry, it's like I felt like I needed to like slightly mod my GameCube controller. And there's like all the inconsistencies that are like kind of fixed now by like slippy and stuff. But I remember I was in like Uncle Punch like doing like wave dashes. and like trying to like grind and like get the muscle memory down. And there is like a certain amount of like I have to do this in order to start having fun like to a certain degree. Whereas the thing that I really value in things like this now is coaching.

I've done coaching for magic. I've done coaching for Pokemon. And I like I love. having like someone to like focus my my energies and like kind of let me keep keep me on the right path and some somebody to celebrate with and someone to celebrate with yeah like one of the things about Pokemon which is really fun like it's a very complex game it's turn based but it's funny because you have 45 seconds to make a move and it is really hard to process all of the information that all of the things that are happening in in 45 seconds because as a new

player I liken it to when I first started driving and I couldn't listen to music or talk to anyone while I was driving like I needed to be completely fully actively man that's actually the that way that's the perfect allegory because like I put off driving for so long because of that barrier to entry that was required to be a beginner yeah was the written test once the written test was done i was psyched about the in-person nailed it because you already knew how to drive it's like the actual like doing the and as someone who like doesn't enjoy school as structured as it is it like is just shaped like that yeah there is a um you ever like i don't this this makes sense at all but like walking in la down a straight series of blocks where you can

see your destination and how far it is versus like walking in San Francisco where a turn is coming up or walking in London where you know you can see the corner you're getting to right now turn that corner see the next corner you're going to two miles in that pattern to me feels so much less draining than two miles on a straight set of blocks because you see how little progress you are making yeah it's like that can feel like that like it's like running on a treadmill versus like playing tennis or something where it's like it's just more engaging that moment. Like, I guess it's, I think of it as beginner advanced intermediate expert, but do you switch intermediate in advance there? I don't know, actually. I don't know, actually. I guess intermediate almost by definition I put in the middle. So if you have four things, the middle is like there's not a clear middle. But I usually think of beginner intermediate advanced because expert is like, I feel like that's like very,

very far away for most, for most people. Maybe for you. I think what's interesting about like trying to learn. in Pokemon VGC is, especially as a Pokemon fan, is that I'm like, yeah, I know how to battle. And then you get into it. And there's so many things that you never pay attention to when you're just playing the games casually.

That, like, oh, I know the tight matchups. This is going to be easy. And then you pay attention to, did his stats raise? Did mine drop? Oh, is the rain happening? Oh, am I burned? It's not just done. It is so much more than like rock paper scissors.

Yeah, because like, if I'm playing the normal game and I'm burned, I'm like, oh, I'm going to take some damage at the end of the battle. You have to think about that your attack is half. You have to pay it into their abilities. There's even stuff like, like I had a match in the in-game of one of my games that I was playing during the Wolfie tournament. And like one thing my coach pointed out that he was glad that I did. It's like we talk a lot about mitigating variance. And like, because in Pokemon, sometimes moves can miss if they don't have 100 accuracy.

And also things can crit. So it's like if there's a 10% chance to crit, if you can afford to, should play around it. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's like, oh, if you have a play, if you're choosing between two plays and one of them loses to a crit, sure, 90% of the time you're going to still win, but you increase your win percentage by playing around that 10% likelihood if you can.

And so, like, there is an instance where I had a guaranteed, like, lock of like an endgame, basically, but it required me to like use Syshock instead of heatwave because like heatwave has 95% accuracy but you play enough games you see it miss all the time because you click heatwave hundreds of times you know and so you just see those misses

and those misses can be really can be really rough or there was a game that I had versus Seedog where I had like a very very very very I ended up losing that match due to and still moving on I knew beforehand

as long as I took a game off, I had a really good chance of moving on past the group stage just because of how the tiebreakers and things were going to work. But there was a thing where it's like I won game one, lost game two, and then was well positioned to win game

three, and then had multiple one and eight full paralysis happen in a row. I think it was like three. And so like the odds are like one in a thousand, you know, that it happens like that. But if you play to your outs, like that might, that occurrence can occur. And in that game, there wasn't like a whole whole lot that I would have changed about my play after discussing

it with pro players. Like, sometimes you just get screwed by the RNG, but you still play to your outs. It's like poker. You know what I mean? But there's also like another element of things that, that is just like as you learn the skill, sometimes you attack and you're like, does this kill? You know what I mean? And then also, Pokemon, there's a range of essentially a fudge factor, like how much a move can do, like let's say it's 10% one way or the other way. I don't know the exact percentage, but you can do 100 damage, 90 damage or 110 damage. And so you have a, it's like a quote unquote, a range to kill.

like, or a range of damage. And so you might be within the range where it's like 60% chance to kill. But, okay, that's not 100%. Which is not the same as catching somebody in a combo that you know the exact scale damage off. It's hard. It's hard to know the exact. And then there's always crits to consider.

And so I was in a situation in that game where I had the option to use a setup move that would like raise my attack power. and I chose to do it a second time because I had a window to do it. And in retrospect, in hindsight, that could have lost me the game because even though in like 900 out of a thousand or 950 out of a thousand games, it doesn't come up. We like we happened to be in the universe where like I needed to do damn. on that turn because I was going to get paralyzed three times where I wasn't able to do damage. You Mandela it into the- Yeah, yeah.

It's like the doctor strange. Just the one. The one. I've been having a similar experience with Jordan got me into Slay the Spire too. Mm-hmm. And it's become an addiction. Oh, look, look. Hey, hey, yeah.

It's you got yourself into it. I simply sold the merchandise. But like, it's the thing we're doing multiplayer and I'm like, okay, I'm focusing, on my cards and what combos I can make with my cards. And then I wasn't paying attention to the draw pile or the discard pile. And I was like, okay, no, I need to start paying attention to those. So next round, I pay attention to those, not paying attention to my potions or my relics. Okay, so every time I play, I'm learning to pay it into something else.

And I feel like that's very similar. Yeah, the notion of intrinsic rewards and extrinsic rewards when in a game or like game-like loop where the intrinsic reward is actually diagetically in the game itself. even if it's just a trophy or a new IW unlock, unlocking new cards in the pool by progressing through the game doing higher ascensions. And then there's the extrinsic award of you personally learning or getting an achievement.

Like a game like Spalunky, there's almost no things that you unlock with each play. But the game is so weird that you play 20 games. And then you go, wait a minute. When I do my whip crack, I'm hitting stuff higher behind me. And then all of a sudden you play to that. And you can fall any distance

as long as you grab onto a ledge. And I feel like that is the meta part that we're talking about really enjoying where it's almost like even if you're slowly grinding up in the meantime, you're getting all these, you're getting these memories and these locking experiences. Same applies for non-gaming, but I do think it's a good avenue to explore that. Yeah, it's like how do I position myself? I think, yeah, Pokemon has a lot of stuff like that. It's like if my team wants to execute a game plan, the first thing you learn is like how to execute the game plan. But then you have to like learn how to execute the game plan Considering that your opponent can try to disrupt the game plan

And it doesn't hurt that this is all Flowing around like a World and property that you have so much affection for Yeah yeah no 100% I just retrain my entire the entire way I think about Pokemon when I'm doing VGC versus just yeah Because I'm not taking protect by any means in the normal game I actually played through very very quickly I played through brilliant diamond shining pearl the Gen 4 Remakes because I wanted to test something with with ribbons.

I wanted to see if I could get some, I might use that game to get some titles in Pokemon Champions, but playing through the Elite 4 of that game, it's like, they're like cheating so much. Like, you're, you're like beating the Elite 4 trainer like horribly. And then they'll just like keep spamming full restore. They're hitting you with the... And I'm like, bro, like, we... Come on, no items.

What do you think this is? We're competitors here. They're hitting you with the, uh, the Yu-Gi-o Millennium Eye. Yeah. I know what you're doing, buddy. It was, yeah, I was like, bro, like, okay, fine, you win. I guess I can't beat like six full restores on your guard shop. I'm sorry.

That's why he's elite, dude. Yeah. Mid. I guess so. Yeah. You're advanced or intermediate, whichever one is that. Well, that was so funny because it normally in, it's like, in Final Fantasy, you don't expect the boss to like rip out a potion.

I mean, I'll do it, but that that that was a thing though because it's like like there's a way to build a team that plays perfectly through this. Like if I had like a set up team, if I had like some swords dance and then like sweep the whole the whole thing. But I just had like whatever bull crap like I bull crap. Who the hell is that? What is this? I don't know why I was. Yeah, I don't know why. I mean, do you want to go overspers?

That's the radio edit though. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that was. Anyway, the bull, uh. I was kind of just like, I guess I'll just buy some revives and some potions just in case. And then I ended up in a situation at the end of the game where I had to like outsmart the AI because they were, basically I was spamming the A button and like watching the World Cup while doing this.

So I wasn't like really being strategic. And then I found like all my Pokemon were dead and I was running. I had like run out of everything. and all I had was two Pokemon left and they had Garchop, which was higher level than all of my other stuff. So I ended up having to, I had a Magnusone and a Salamance, and I knew that the AI would just keep spamming the super effective attack. And steel resists dragon and magnusone, or no, and Salamance has levitate. or no, it has its flying type so it resists

or it's immune to ground. Your eyes are rolling back in your head. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so basically, and Salman's ability is intimidate so it lowers attack stage and physical attack and Garchamp's physical attacker. So at a certain point I had like no items and I was like, okay, how do I do this?

And so then it was I would switch to Magnusone. They would use Dragon Claw knowing, thinking that they were going to get a super effective on my salivance, then I would switch back to my salemence, they would use earthquake, which he was immune to, and then I would get an intimidate off.

And I could keep doing that until I had lowered Garchamp's attack the maximum amount because they basically couldn't damage me. And then I could finally, like, clean up the battle. And I was like, wow, that was like way closer than it should have been. Which is the, that's the game. And in Pokemon or anything kind of similar was, what you're actually playing for? is the times you almost lose.

Yeah. But you have to put that in context by doing really well outside of that. Yeah, yeah. But in the moment, you're like, oh, no, the bad thing's happening. I'm almost losing, despite it actually being the thing.

It's because like the games are like pretty easy, uh, for the most part because you like have perfect information. Like guard ramp is four X week to ice. If I had brought any ice moves, wouldn't have been an issue. Yeah. The problem is I wasn't paying attention to anything.

I was literally just spamming through like Max. I was just like just trying to get through the Elite 4 so that I could test something that was completely unrelated to that game. And I don't even like the way that game looks. I don't really enjoy that game that much. You know, Pepys and I were talking about it. Like it was kind of panned when it came out. It's not viewed very highly in the community.

But it is a remake of the Gen 4 games than I needed. And it's one of the few games that I can transfer very easily, Pokemon, in and out. through home. So can I, okay, so this is, this is some like lost media shit that I find personally interesting. And this is the place where I get to force people to listen to that. So the band Fallout Boy, they have some lost media, some demos that are alleged to exist. There's like a live video of them performing a version of Sugar We're Going Down.

You know, they're famous, famous single before the, they've. had kind of pivoted to a pop punk sound. So it was it like sounds more like post hardcore type vibes. There's a thing that happened where someone, people think it's a member of the band, found these missing demos, like put them on like a CD and like sent it around to various like record stores and like fans in the mail. Oh. And then they were instructed to upload it to internet archive. and it was all like stuff that people like hadn't heard before like studio or studio or demo

versions of like these old songs from like the early days of the band i thought it was pretty cool and it maybe was a gorilla marketing for who knows what because it was months ago and no one ever figured out what it was for but i'm gonna i'm gonna play you some of this because i think it's cool because you've heard you know if we're going down down in an earlier round sugar we're going down swinging i'll be your number one with a bullet A loaded god complex Cock it and pull it It's got

It's still got the parts It's just like mixed differently All the meat Yeah it's a broader Yeah they're like The guitars especially is like much more like kind of a post hardcore Yeah I this is supposed to be like

After their first They had a this album called Take This To Your Grave Which is more like pop punk Like actually Like pop punk in its original form versus the like pop rock type, like more, more like kind of bubble gum poppy stuff. And I guess these are their demos from before they decided the sound of like From Under the Cork Tree, which was their first like album that people know. That's what Sugar We're Going Down is on.

Do you get that like, I feel like there was a some dip somewhere in my 20s that have now, thankfully on like the more fun side of where I was like resistant to nostalgia a lot. Not so much. I think I remember you saying some stuff like this in the early days of the pod. I remember just thinking like it's like it's like rot, you know, like if it infests you too much. And there's still a part of that, I think, like living only in it, I think can be dangerous because it's sort of devalues the experiences. You can't be having the new stuff. True.

Only rewatching shows, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I do think there's also merit to rewatching, reconsuming, you know, recontextualizing. I think that's cool. It's its own art in a way. I have been I've zipped back to 2010 I've been listening to a lot of my 2010 albums and music

or the things I was really a lot of like thrash and math core and stuff like that like because I there was an era specifically like circa 2008 where all of my friends were into that I was intimidated by it and that I was like no

I have to be like them and I like dressed for the job until it became it And so now I was listening to like a bunch of Dillinger escape plan and like architects, which at the time I found kind of cringe, but now I'm just enjoying unironically Your demise. When we remember his your demise, you probably don't because you're not from Middle England and just to 10. But there's like, I don't know, like this fondness that I feel like I'm having now for a version of me that I almost see like my kid.

It's just, hey, he's like 13. He's figuring it out. Yeah. I'm not going to make fun of this guy. He's doing his best. That feels so, I don't know when there was, but. Yeah, I do, that is fun. I think a lot about, I kind of hope my kids into Pokemon, because then it'll be really easy for, I get like a life hack in terms of like things that we can do together,

a whole different class of like stuff. It's almost like just cheating. That would be like obviously I'll do whatever my kid, future kid wants to do or I'll try to like give them the life that they want, obviously, but. But I mean, the price of the cloning, you know, You'd hope that it at least comes with a lot of the same instinct. Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

I don't plan on having kids, but I have... You were saying you were going to take one, though. Yeah. Well, I have four nephews right now. Three of them are pretty much now at the age where I can get them into Pokemon. And I've successfully got one of them. Yeah. The oldest one, I started gifting him Pokemon cards, and still he just, like, kept bringing it up,

and now he watches Pokemon, and he keeps asking his mom for Pokemon cards. He is kind of the bulbosaur to your eye. be sore. Yeah. And Ollie. I'm making him into Pokemon. All he's asking you for Pokemon cards all the time. He actually is. He keeps taking him from me. You let him pick the pack and then you'll give him like the energy card

or everything. He goes. He goes, and now I'm putting every card that he choose on and putting him in a binder. That's funny. It's going to be worth something one day when he's famous. We're wrapping up over here. We're going to head over to patreon.com slash sadboys for Sadboys nights. our Patreon exclusive podcast

that's just the same as this so there's more of it. More of the show you just listen to. Like this, you're really gonna like Sad Boys Nights. You're gonna like Sad Boys Nights because we get crazy. Nighttime podcast, greater than symbol. Greater than Symbol, dude.

We're gonna, we're gonna say some messed up on Sal Boys Nights, let me tell you. We end every episode of Sad Boys with a particular phrase. We love you. And we're sorry. Worship.

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