Sad Boyz - Ireland's (2nd) Biggest YouTuber (w/ Jacksepticeye)

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

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the case of bowling it never feels like i get any better by doing it yeah and that's what's a little frustrating i have a good first run and then we play a second game and my score is like half what it was because i just start getting tired and sore someone the variance is high enough for people who are bad at it that your one friend gets two strikes and then everybody's like who knew that jacob was really good at bowling i do have a good bowling story that I can share. Welcome to Sad Boys, a podcast about feelings and other things also. I'm Jarvis. I'm Jordan. That was cool.

Do we do that now? I wanted to do a little in-universe crossover to our guest today, Sean McLaughlin. You may know him as Jacksepticeye. You may also know him as one half of the Brain Leak podcast with Ethan Nestor. You may also know him as the second most subscribed irish youtuber why did you bring that up we uh buddy that's really high it's really good you're so close you know who people sometimes talk about is silver medalists yeah first loser that's true yeah we wanted hey at least i'm on the podium. All right. Relax.

We just wanted to know if you could connect us to power kids TV. I don't know. I don't know what the deal is. I don't actually, there's a, so it's either that, I mean, people who speak the Indian language can live in Ireland.

Right. But I don't know if they actually live in Ireland or if they just created the channel in ireland for despite reasons or because ireland has like lower corporate tax is there a chance at all that it's ethan it could be oh that would be a rank mr crank mr crank i think that's dead mr crank's my father's name just go yeah bless up yeah i don't know what's going on with power kids tv but apparently i'm going to war this is your t-series like uh yeah dude i hate to say it uh yeah they're killing it that grade is also higher than yours look my grade used to be high it's not about the grade it's a call of your grade hey don't get angry it's i think we have like a b maybe yeah maybe just not. It's crazy

because we're not the second biggest in Ireland. Who even searches Social Blade anymore? No one. No one. That was all people did. Oh, there was

a Social Blade moment. I think it may be. Nobody searches it. I don't know why you're upset. I'm not upset. I'm just loud. I'm just crying about something else.

I think it maybe died the moment that YouTube got rid of the got rid of the uh got rid of the live subscriber right yeah because of that one's up yeah i think also the like at one point in time when we still worked at patreon it was like a gospel piece of info it's like oh my god that grade is good for patreon we both worked at patreon that's where you met hey what was your job? Jordan was just like a cool guy.

He was just kind of stood around. That's why I got fired. Mr. Silva. Stop being cool. I'm the most popular person on the show. At least I'm on the podium and not in the crowd watching. Maybe I don't want to be on the show. Maybe it's comfortable on the stands okay yeah maybe i like maybe i like fitting in yeah i've got double i don't like attention

so jordan was on like the patreon equivalent of sales which was just like doing outreach to creators and strategizing about like getting creators to launch a platform and i was a little software engineer in a cave. Wow. Yeah. What did you engineer? The thing that's still, I think my claim to fame with Patreon,

that's because they still use this, is the RSS feed for podcasts on Patreon. That was a project that I did in my first month at work. And they never let me make it better and so it's still i mean it's good that it's worked for six years but i was lobbying like the entire time i was at that company to like make improvements on like podcast support for for patreon and then it just we always had different corporate uh corporate priorities even that was like a wasn't that for a hack day or something no it was a project where um it was like a pitch where i was like this would be easy to do like because i was like a podcast nerd so i knew things about rss feeds or whatever this is when

we were nerds yeah i used to be a nerd and then i do remember i we were assigned a pod for the project so it was me and a designer, Scott. And then another- Shout out, Scott. He's great. And then another engineer who I won't name because that engineer would never reply to my Slack messages and wouldn't talk to me.

He was like the senior engineer on the team who'd been at the company for a long time. And I was like the new guy and I couldn't get him to talk to me. And so I just made it, me and Scott just made it by ourselves. You think he was ignoring you because you're social blade at the time i think he saw that i didn't have one yeah it was kind of rough and you're not pissed i'm not pissed i've never been angry i've never been angry the useless emotion that i hate the mic's cracking and yeah um but yes i've never hated anyone that was where we that was where

we met where we got you know our start but one point in time social blade was like oh my god circa like 2015 2016 this is our gospel i don't know why to this day i still don't know what the contributing factors to a grade is i don't either i think it's relevant to like your bubble of time right now like what are you doing right now it's like momentum of the moment because treating youtube like a monolith right like youtuber is a thing that you can scale against each other kids super party time or whatever that channel is called is like equivalent power kids if you delete a video it like takes your score for example do you really yeah because it's like oh you got less views now it's dumb oh as in like archived view it's like oh to you today

instead of gaining a million views you lost three million you didn't lose them they're like they still accrued well just a bunch of people's memories doesn't have object permanence men and blacked everybody yeah pretty much it never existed yeah i used to really like sean's videos but i guess he never made it he never made them so i don't have those memories i i have had that with somebody i was like trying to do a project with um some like company somewhere in la you know they were they were like oh youtubers are cool let's do a project with you and the project was kind of like cringe. Yeah. The project was kind of cringe. And I was like, I guess I'll do it. It's fun. It's something different. Right. And then they stopped replying

to us. And then it was like, well, his numbers have kind of like dropped a little bit. So funny. Oh my God. Yeah. It's good that this fell apart. Cause that I don't want to work with that. Brands, brands do this as a way of, um, kind of fear mongering with creators. So like we, you know, a lot of this business is based around brand deals and working directly with brands in addition to like ads. And some people aren't as ad friendly for like YouTube's ad system. So they rely on other income, like working with brands or Patreon or what have you. Brands, working with brands, you know a it's a double-edged sword but one thing i will say

is that one of the most common things that brands will do to make a creator feel bad and guilty is be like oh we're not seeing as many conversions we're not seeing enough movement yeah unfortunately not enough people are buying the um bouncy ball that you are the diglet yeah the big bouncy ball it just doesn't seem like there's an alignment so we're gonna have to pay you a dollar yeah instead of all the money would you be pissed because you know one of our service of which there's 15 competitors it's really only several thousand people just to make things better you could put an ad on every video you've ever made or maybe you could even delete your on every video you've ever made. Or maybe you could even delete your channel

and then make a new channel that's just about the bouncy ball. Yeah. Maybe an Instagram post you could throw. That's a smarter play. Yeah. Like, are you blaming me for you guys not being good at marketing? Because you're the ones giving us all the things to say. And we're trying to make it palatable.

You've been in a a significant position second place a significant position which is on the podium so don't like it's on the podium just not on camera my name's not in flashing lights but it's under them right yeah with special guests uh you're saying bolt plus there is i mean it's been a weird evolving narrative for brand deals and monetization on youtube you mean you've been around long enough now to basically have experienced every generation of that kind of yeah yeah oh my god like the there's maker there's like the full screen full screen i mean studio 71 still around it but i mean then you have the stuff with smosh that happened with uh

defiant or defy defy they were defiant and not paying their creators um do you have any public i mean at least you can talk about conflicts with like a brand or an organization like that yeah i had a thing with like a merch company that i did a while back that i i wanted to leave and they were like well technically you signed this document so we have you forever and they were like, well, technically you signed this document, so we have you forever. And I was like, that's not, that document you asked me to sign was not got to do with that. It was to like clear stuff through

customs from certain countries to be like, like six years ago. We've got you forever. That's like a, there's no way that holds up. That's like a 20s Motown contract. Yeah. That's like a, you, that there's no way that holds up. It's like a twenties Motown contract. That's a $5. That's like the new season of black mirror.

I think, I don't think the company, I think within like the last year stuff fell apart, but there was a bunch of other creators in it. And they kept even up to like a couple of years ago, we're still like, we work with Jacksepticeye. And I had to like,

I had to go through like a whole legal team thing with them and try and like get out of it and eventually i did and everything was fine but there's so many other people that were like caught in the same cycle and they couldn't get out either that's when people came to me and asked like what were they like i'm like no that's a thing where like uh people will say that they work with you if you've ever had any sort of any like the amount of emails where we uh worked with mr beast once yeah i sold him a coffee once you mean oh no oh that's like some company oh yeah fucking constantly no they leave the name but you are also getting i would say 50 000 emails i would say maybe don't bleep the name. Fuck them, actually.

Actually, just spell it out. Yeah, there's this website called Timu, and they're trying to do a bunch of influencer outreach right now for brand deals. Don't take the bait. It's like one of those Wish.com scam websites where you maybe don't receive the items, and sometimes you do. I don't know. It all seems

very sketchy but for like the sketchiest is that they send they've sent us countless emails on every email that we're reachable by that have like various formatting that look like they were all copy and pasted from like different templates somewhere and they're all from the same woman named christy and it's like you're not sending thousands of emails a day chris yeah you're a fake person work yeah you are chad gpt i think christy's fingers are just bones yeah i always loved your latest video about smart house yeah oh yeah just like love your latest content video about and then it's the cop it like looks like the youtube watch page where we just copy and paste

the part that's in bold because it like was copied copy the formatting from youtube page yeah me and all my homies plain text me and all my friends have been chuckling at your audio visual content that you've been releasing lately hello creator oh silver it's great when you see the template fail where it's like greetings null, null. We're excited to work with you. Devastating. Have I told you about the guy that like, he's like so nice. He's everybody's friend in the space. And I don't know if you will remember, because I used to go by a different name now.

I went by a professional name then. He fucking hates me. Because of exactly that reason. Because my name used to be on Outreach I was more known by at that point in time when I still did like salesy salesy. So when like a lot of emails would go out. Yeah. Cause later on the job became just like knowing the creators and they would

reach out to us. But early on it's like just send fucking hundreds of emails and we're like, this seems unappealing. And they're like, no, we should be like Temu. That's like when you start your YouTube channel, like 10 years ago, like I did where it's like you just go to somebody

else's video and it's like hey i make content as well come watch me yeah do you reply oh re video replies i used to did you ever do anything yeah you're like hustling to get eyeballs on your videos i used to like post my videos on reddit yeah and stuff and just everything under the sun just to get like a little modicum of like two views. Yeah, literally. My first video on YouTube, I bought ads to get it up to a thousand views because I was like, maybe this will be just a little boost I need. Did it work? It got the views I paid for, but no.

You just bought it your own channel. I went through the official channels of doing so but yes i that shit still exists you can still just like buy views oh yeah you can you legitimized body i mean if better at it but yeah you for those thousand views you made somewhere between nine and seventeen dollars yeah which is it costs which is fucking bank yeah and it almost paid for the what a hundred dollars i spent on the ads it was great hell yeah yeah youtube's changed a lot over the years i mean i even have like a brand now which six years ago was like nobody does that right like you sell merch maybe but nobody has like a company

sure write a mid autobiography that's what you're supposed to do i don't care enough about the things i've done yeah write them down to make other people care about it. Right. There was a big craze when everyone was like writing books and people would come to you and be like, write, write like an autobiography. I'm like, I'm 26. That shit was so funny. I don't have a life yet.

Yeah. What am I going to write about? That's a, that happened to me recently. Like, and it was very flattering and it was all well-meaning and it was from somebody in one of these publishing companies that was like a fan it was tom clancy yeah it was rl stein actually he said he said your videos give me goosebumps by the way your response to jervis pipeline is strong are you afraid of the dark yeah i think i am no but it's flattering but then you look at the actual

work if you want to do it for real and you can tell that it's like the people and this is not to like it's not no shade to people who are like taking these opportunities because it's like it's all the business or whatever but i know that i cannot deliver a meaningful product yeah that actually like like sure it would get on the new york times bestseller list because you have to sell like five copies to get on that list but uh it's just how many the new york times bought that way yeah it's like how many you ordered to your own house yeah we you sent them some for the office yeah and they were like wow sales are up this week but um new york times best sender but yeah i mean and there's some like i've read a fair amount of YouTuber books.

Like I remember Anna Akana's book, Michael lent me and I thought it was like really moving. Like she's gone through a bunch of stuff and I thought it was like super cool that like she was able to like share that and be vulnerable with the world. Yeah. But at the same time on the flip side, it's like most of the time it's like a money grab and it feels a little. Well, the thing with some people is like, sometimes you have to like fight against stereotypes and like racial stereotypes and things like that.

And you actually have like a, like a friction with the world to tell. Right, right, right. I'm like, I'm just a privileged little white boy that like came through and got really lucky and has an accent. Where's my story i don't have one and he made it all the way to number two and that's like a really inspiring yeah i got like a cutie pie shout out so it's like oh yeah it's like man i fought hard to get onto that second place podium i mean people that sucks sorry man this silver medal's real heavy but hey the shout out i mean don't i obviously i know exactly what you're saying and and it's totally fair for you to say that about yourself but also as an outsider you've

clearly put in the work yeah and it and as you've been lucky everyone needs luck to some extent and like you did you know once the luck came you were making daily you i i did not know this you were doing two videos a day for five years yeah what is wrong with you is that on purpose yeah i don't know i mean it was it was really different back then nowadays like people love to look back at that content with today's lens but it's like yeah we weren't making highly produced content back then right and i wasn't sitting down for like three hours on one game to get like a 20 minute video it's like right it's like 15 minutes and that's it it's unedited that's what was the catalyst for not doing that anymore i hated myself i got so sick of it and i was like man this is so boring to do oh that's for second place there's so much effort and work

and all i would do is like wake up get the video ready for that day the two videos then record two more edit them and go to bed and that was it yeah it's like that's not fun uh it was a different time just because like there were significant youtube algorithm changes in like 2016 where you saw like let's plays become like the most popular content on the website yeah i like i like using visual analogies for everything so the way i always described it is that like whatever mold youtube had fit like my shape really well right right i like slotted into that really easily yeah and i think that algorithm mold has like shifted a lot but my shape hasn't sure so it's like if i want to like fit into those

algorithms now i kind of have to like morph and shift and change and adapt sure way more nowadays than i did back then back then it was just like sit down record videos put in the hours and then stuff just goes yeah but it is like i think that there is something to be said for the platform in how it dictates the type of content that can be successful on it yeah versus the like there's always this like artistic uh push and pull where yeah this artistic tug of war where the algorithm or the system wants something. And then there's some sort of version of, you're like, well, I like you're, you're looking for the thing you can make that doesn't make you, you know, like hate your life. That also satisfies the algorithm. And as that, as that target moves, because for YouTube, it's an always moving target you are able to choose how

much you want to cater to it because it could move further and further away from things that you even want to do or value art is commerce right yeah capitalism or whatever but like it's taika white's team makes thor and then he goes away and gets to make jojo rabbit yeah it's not that he dislikes either it's's just that one is... Yeah, what's that thing like one for you, one for me kind of thing? Welcome to Hollyweird, brother. It's a man. Somewhere out there a script is being written

that's going to be the next big thing. Well, not right now because they're on strike, but an AI somewhere is writing the next big blockbuster. They're on strike, but they're still writing their scripts. They're just waiting for when the strike is over where it's like, now I'll give it to you for the money I deserve. You were saying you think it's extremely dishonorable and you're worried.

I was saying writers should be paid less. Yeah. Because I mean, it's just, we all have keyboards. Like, I just wrote a movie. I'm not allowed to do that anymore. Come on, guys. Come on, guys. That would be so funny, by the way.

If you sincerely got into that, we were just like, weird. Yeah, it's just, that's my thing. It's just, I really hate writers. I even remember the first time I, like, heard about, like, writer stuff and how important they were to content was, like, when Lost was coming out. Because that was when, like, the actual, like, writer strike. It's important. It's important. It's important.

Oh, we're, we're, we talk about lost a lot. Actually. It's like what made me like the types of genres. I like, you came to the right place.

You came to the right place. It's what made me love theorizing. It's what made me love like vague storytelling, like ambiguity, sci-fi sitting on the, sitting on the lost, lost uh wiki or like lostpedia dude i would read lostpedia all the time and just just look at little details that you know were easter eggs and things that would probably never resolve into anything

but the open-endedness and like the theorizing and the community that it built was really like important for me growing up yeah because i i do stuff with like characters on my channel that the community have kind of like built themselves first and then i can like legitimize them and i started doing that and i do that same thing where i'm like what does it all mean i'll never tell and like people love that and i'm like man it's so fun to see that that's still alive because it's like everybody wants all the content and like what does it mean and everyone wants to pick apart stuff all the time and i'm like it's i don't want to like tell people what stuff means it's like that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar cigar i've always found that idea of like well this art or

this thing i'm enjoying is only valid if the entire time there has been a result and yeah anybody that's ever written or even thought of an idea or even played dnd knows that i mean really it's a little bit of jazz the thing you end up with is literally never going to be the exact thing you thought of in the beginning yeah but all that matters is the illusion during that period of time like oh wow at the time i completely thought thought the DM had like a really clear idea. Yeah. But hey, man, you don't have to explain everything in lost for me to enjoy wondering what it is. Yeah.

I think their problem was that they told people that they had an end goal the whole time. And then they came out years later and were like, no, we were kind of like making it up as we went. I didn't cook the food and it's like there is stuff that i uh can empathize or sympathize with which is like you have all of these plans but then there's also running the plans by the network and all the different like cooks in the kitchen that have to have their say but then you know i don't know if you saw this we've been talking about it the past few weeks there was this big um piece that came out in vanity fair there's like yeah i was gonna bring it up i was like well not to take the shine off it a little bit no no no we we were in so please like because i i read that and i'm like like lost is my favorite

tv show and it's that reconciliation with like how it was made and like the like racism behind the closed doors and everything and it's like does that change the final product should i still like it kind of stuff right and i guess that's like harry potter jk rolling shit yeah exactly going on right now and people finding out like hp lovecraft was a racist and that's like oh that's been we knew that he was so good at racism yeah one of the best racists that's like the whole conversation then about like well it was like so far back and everybody was racist back then exactly exactly or it's like george washington i mean hp lovecraft was racist for that that's maybe what's the it was just the vibe oh yeah it was it was just vibes it was easy to look away he was also insane like it did separately yeah he's writing a book and he was afraid he was

gonna go insane because his mother was in like a mental institution yes and he's writing all the all the stuff about monsters is an analogy for mental health what if a thing was so big yeah what if like people turn into monsters basically and morph into creatures that is basically you can't leave you just have to live around yeah you just morph into like i mean that's junji ito as well but anyway i was i was really sad reading it because like harold perrineau yeah he was like talking about how it's like well we have like a black kid that goes missing and like we can't have people not care about this and we can't have a black father not care about because there's

already this trope in society yeah it's so stereotyped and like stereotype we don't we don't need that like racial stereotype in the show and then it was like okay you're written out of the show like a season later it's yeah it's wild and also we were looking into like the because the article talks about how harold perrineau who uh plays michael in in laws yeah is uh he as a actor was like a huge get for the show because he had already been in oz he'd already been in two matrix movies like wait he's in the matrix yeah he's a link in in the matrix oh shit he is yeah yeah yeah but yeah he just he was just like around he'd already been in an oz i think it was more i never saw it but it was apparently like this more like it's loaded yeah i mean it's like a lot of super

super edgy yeah sopranos air hbo right yes i think hbo yes what's the word uh prestige tv yeah um but but yeah and then he yeah there's like this quote where he's like i came here to work like i want you guys to use me yeah and then that him saying i want you guys to use use me turned into well if if we don't have a good way to use you then i guess we should let you go and yeah and he was basically like how can we like represent this better like put me in the writer's room and like do this better which is so crazy for a show that's like lauded for its like diversity yeah like having korean people and like black people and like all these like different cultures in it and then it's like and then he did that because the whole thing the thing that was like crazy was that the mr echo one the mr echo one yeah and then because he he was supposed

to be like the new john lock on the show he was supposed to go the whole nine yards yeah so much like they were setting him up for so much yeah and then he was like well i don't want to live in hawaii i want to go back to london and live with my family and then they were i think they were pissed at him for that but they were like okay we get it we can't do that to you so he was like, well, I don't want to live in Hawaii. I want to go back to London and live with my family. And then they were, I think they were pissed at him for that, but they were like, okay, we get it. We can't do that to you. So he was killed off in the show like really quick. Yeah, they were like, hey, go ahead.

Yeah. Forever actually. And then it came out that Carlton Cuse was like, I don't want him to just die. I want to hang him, chop off his dick and shove it down his throat. And it's like, oh, okay. Okay. And then for, you know, for his part, it's a legend and carl thank you says he

has no recollection of that i never said it but carl the goose is old as shit and i would not be fucking surprised and he's like old hollywood and it feels like the more it kind of comes out because damon lindelof kind of like went off and did his own stuff and he did like the watchmen show and he did the leftovers and like he's done some good stuff since. And people really, I mean, the worst people online really hated Watchmen because of its diversity and treatment. Yeah. Cause it was like that whole one episode about like racial equality and like

going back in time and like seeing all that kind of stuff. So Watchmen's about cool guys. It's about how cool Rorschach is. It's like, oh, I can't be an incel and like Watchmen anymore. The comedians, the hero. It's like, yeah, I can't be an incel and like watchman anymore. The hell? The comedian's the hero. It's like, yeah.

And Damon, you know, isn't, you know, he also had that thing with, allegedly, where he was like, he called me a racist, so I fired his ass with regard to a kill. But he did seem at least acknowledging and apologetic to the environment that was created at Lost. But yeah, going back to like, whether

that takes away something from the art, it's hard to say, but you know, there is a complex history and it's a reflection of society and like how we have like evolved. Like so much stuff used to be okay on, not even behind the scenes, but like in front of the scenes because like what was like reality tv of the time was like like super horrible you know like i still think lost moved

the diversity needle a little bit more in the right direction right because just in the show itself even if it could be seen as like tokeny or it it could be seen as like behind the scenes if they were not the most respectful to that diversity and like sort of paying service to that diversity. Optically, for a long enough time, it was lauded for that. And then other people kind of took those cues on the surface. And I think it did sort of hopefully nudge things in a better direction. Such a small number of people engaging with the meta around the show. Even first of all, like me,

cause I was like a teenager when it was coming out and I, I just thought it was cool to see all these like other cultures represented. Oh for sure. Yeah. I later in my life, like dated someone from Korea and like learned Korean like a little bit and like went there because of that show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think seeing that kind of stuff and I'm thinking about like, like younger black kids who are watching it, who don't really like get the higher end, high complex narrative of it.

They just see people that look like them on TV. Sometimes it's like, I loved Static Shock. Oh yeah. Static Shock fucking rips. I was like, this show bangs, but it's also half my childhood. Phil Lamar did.

He's everywhere. And I didn't even know that he was a black guy. You know what I mean? Like, just like, and that was like a blow. You guys seen from. Yeah.

I haven't seen season two yet, but I watched season one where I was like, I didn't know it was like made by people who made Lost. And I was watching it and I was like, Lost did this. Ah, that's funny. Starring Harold Perna. Yeah. That's one thing.

It's me and Katie are watching it right now. It's good. It's not great. Okay. Okay. It scratches that like itch that I have for like that type of world. Right. Right.

Because that's the type of stuff that I want to make. I want to make stuff like that. It feels like Dark Souls 2 where it's like, okay, well I've seen a lot of this and I can tell something's missing. We have Dark Souls at home. We have Lost at home. But I do like,

you know, immersive storytelling. A lot of the pieces are here and then Dark Souls 3 comes along and like, you're like, oh yeah, wait, no, this is what I'm like.

I'm glad From exists because I'm glad that that type of like weird show still is out there i have a feeling that this is it's so funny i wonder if the sad boys like audience is like you guys talk about lost a lot i'm gonna check it out great hey what's the first great pilot um i think lost needs like a dragon ball kai yeah we need like a i'm always want to watch lost i'm like i want to watch it without the flashbacks but they're so important but i know what's in them so like i can't watch 26 episodes of an hour of television for six seasons again 100 this is dean is going to be furious but i think the sopranos needs it too and i fucking love the sopranos but they were obliged to make X number of episodes a season.

Yeah, it's padded out for a reason. It's a certain era of television where they were reliant on advertising. The more episodes you have, the better for the show. Yeah, you needed to keep people for like a half a year to watch your show. But The Sopranos is, I'd say, three seasons of TV stuffed into, oh, like spread out six seasons. And you feel it a little in the middle. Well, a modern day just shows that you can tell that story condensed. You don't need it to be as big. Did you?

Okay, so Lost sort of was a shockwave throughout television. And after it ended, and it did do this thing where they wanted it to kind of keep going forever. ABC probably would have preferred if it had just kept stringing people along. Yeah. But they were like, kind of let's put our foot down. And then in the wake of lost ending there were so many shows that were trying to occupy that space uh fringe was one with you know a modicum of success joshua jackson and at least it's still jj abrams so it's like it's still

made by some of the same people with fringe i fucked with fringe i got some fringe dvds over there i haven't finished it ever. I started watching it again at the start of this year. And I got like, I'm like towards the end of season two. I'm like, man, you take a long time. I'll give you some DVDs to take home. And then I realized like, there's like a, like skip it, don't skip it kind of thing. For like X-Files and like Twin Peaks has the same problem. Oh yeah.

Long form anime. Yeah. like right um twin peaks has the same oh yeah long form anime yeah i uh oh and then um one i you were like close to the same age so i'm hoping that you maybe remember flash forward do you remember that show flash forward flash forward was like a it was that could not be more on the nearly lost inspired yeah season two Yeah. Season two flash sideways. Yeah. I found. Yeah, it was. Oh my God.

I don't even remember the part of it, but I mean, obviously like there was some sort of apocalyptic event and they're like flashing forward. I can't fucking remember. Dude, that's just Yellow Jackets now. Oh yeah. Yellow Jackets is literally just lost. I heard.

No good. No more. I didn't even see season lost. I heard no good, no more. I didn't even see season one. I can't even get through season one. Shit. Really? And everyone says they love it, but I'm like, I don't know, something, there's just something about it that's not like grabbing me.

Yeah. The acting's all great. The idea's great. The scenery's great. Where are the fellas? Where's the black smoke monster? Where's the boys? Oh man.

And what is the hatch? So where's the hatch smoke monster where's the boys oh man and what is the hatch um what about red jackets what if we are pissed because there's no hat it's just every show speaking of television i need to talk about the idol people yes please i just i'm putting my foot down to never even look at it you don't need need to. So first of all, before this, I want to give like content warnings for like abuse. And the show glorifies a lot of stuff that's really disgusting. I was talking about the show. Like we were just having a conversation about the show with a friend. We were hanging out.

We were like, do you want to just like hate watch it a little bit? That seems like it could be fun. Yeah. So we turn it on and it is exactly what it's being criticized for which is uh gratuitous like like um like lots of unmotivated sex scenes lots of unmotivated nudity and stuff like that which is fine for like setting the atmosphere but also this weirdly self-important self-indulgent like in the first one of the first scenes of the first episode the uh it's about a pop star who like falls for this uh club promoter

dude play by the weekend play by play by the weekend also co-produces the show who also is an executive producer of the show i was like talking about it like being like this is the this is going to be the big thing i know and so like yeah in the producer of the show. I was like talking about it, like being like, this is the, this is going to be the big thing. I know. And so like, yeah. And the, one of the first scenes, uh, uh, the big pop star, uh, played by, um, Lily Rose Depp is doing a, um, she's doing a photo shoot. And I think in the photo shoot, she's wearing like a hospital band almost to be like, Ooh,

I'm, I'm like, I'm, uh, I'm broken. Yeah. That's like her whole thing. I'm sick and twisted. What if her agents, what if I'm, I'm like, I'm a broken. I'm broken. Yeah. That's like her whole thing. I'm sick and twisted. I'm broken. I'm kind of a Joker style. Crazy. There's a character.

There's a character that asked her agent because, Hey, isn't this like a little insensitive or whatever? And she's like, no, mental illness is sexy. Cool. And like that, that's a whole thing. It's like, Oh, Holly weird is so wacky. Like they don't, they fricking don't care. It's like a bunch of Hollywood people going like, dude, we actually like are the coolest.

It's like the whole Weinstein thing happened and people like didn't get what it was about. Well, we also fucked up. It's like people were talking about that a lot. We should do that. The show feels like it's doing things that would make Twitter mad. But then having the like discourse in the show about like, like what Twitter's going to say, like, Oh, Twitter's going to have an issue with this. So like, let's talk, let's try to make some like high minded statement about why what

we're doing is cool. And it ends up just like glorifying abuse while trying to like make a statement about it's like trying to criticize it well you mentioned a parallel they draw between oh yes okay first episode another parallel oh sorry the one thing we should say if people don't know this is sam leveson sam levinson who did euphoria and who's now being sort of rightfully criticized for like not being that good at his job um and people have like style over substance kind of stuff yeah yeah at least the production values for euphoria was so good you could be distracted but i've seen some clips of the show and it just looks like a show yeah so they're they're another thing they do is like they've got this broken pop star and so they're like this is all six side characters

having um just shooting the shit or whatever they're like yeah she's she's broken her and britney actually have a lot in common and i'm like you know what you can't do uh or you know what they don't have in common britney spears is fucking a real person with like real trauma you can and also like an ongoing situation as the show is being produced and it's probably not out of no out of any of that shit no and so to to be like our fictional character actually is pretty much britney spears as far as as far as the stuff that she's went through and that's why you have fake characters in a show yeah to be like oh yeah britney beers she can you believe what happened it's like bad but at least you're not making so it's so wild and then there's some and like i want to say some of the dialogue that's

like makes me mad but i'm like i don't actually think i can say it so like if you just google like cringy the idol clips i'll say it to you and we can just get your reaction this is one of the agents like who works for live nation in the show i texted jordan that's when it happened yeah because i i had heard the only thing i heard about it was that it was something got to do with like she's not good at her singing or her job but then she gets like basically like raped and then she's better at her job uh yeah i mean the um you know and we'll and i didn't know if that was like real or that was like people like hyperbolically like talking about the show so and i'm also going to include a spoiler because who the fuck cares um no one's

gonna watch the show should burn in episode three the weekend who basically runs a cult the weekend i'm fucking saying this oh this is ruining the weekend's image by the way he's not the weekend anymore either because he's a serious actor now yeah he's ted well his character's name is tedros tedros but anyway um that's like some one piece shit tony tony chopper yeah i have like the the bang bang fruit yeah literally he's on Hollywood Island. Bang, bang everything. So, so basically, uh, the weekend like embeds, they just meet at a club and then suddenly he brainwashes her in immediately. And he's got all these opinions about her music and stuff. He doesn't have a background in music. It's so weird. He's like telling her how to do

her job. But the whole thing is like, he's supposed to be disgusting. He's supposed to be evil or whatever. So, um, they, I don't, there's so many things that I could say that happen, but one of the things that's the most egregious is at the end of episode three, they are around a dinner table and the weekend is making, um, the weekend, uh, yeah, the weekend's character is making Lily Rose Depp's character talk about the trauma that she has with her recently deceased mother, who she comes out and says abused her, beat her with a brush. And then The Weeknd's like, and that's what made you such a good musician. Do you miss it? And she's like, yes. And she's like crying.

And then he's like, do you still have the brush? And she's like, yes. And she's like crying. And then, and then he's like, do you still have the brush? And she's like, yes. And then she gets the brush. And then there's a fucking montage of him beating her with the brush. What the fuck? Yeah. Jesus Christ. And it's supposed to be like, oh, she's going to make the best music now.

And it's like, what the fuck are we doing here? It was before or after the line you texted me. It's like, stay, stay broken. Oh, I It was before or after the line you texted me. It's like, stay broken. Oh, I mean, that's- Stay broken, that makes the best art. That is the most sinister part, is like romanticizing brokenness on any level is like- Yeah.

It's chic, but so sinister. In the day and age when like mental health and therapy is like getting talked about more than ever. Right, misunderstanding why it's being talked about. And that's the thing, it's like, it's the thing it's like it's aware of that but it's like a stupid person's awareness of it where they're like where they're like yeah yeah so um we're actually showing it because it's taboo now to show it uh so we're because we're aware we're allowed to do it like when it's like ironic misogyny is still misogyny that's kind of how it

feels where it's like you're still doing you're still engaging in the thing you're aiming to that was that was my problem with 13 reasons why as well yeah i never saw that one i mean literal statistical uptick in yeah where it was like not only did it show it in like the most graphical way ever but it like built up to it and almost glorified it and then it was like i got the last laugh in everything because i made you all the reason why i killed myself the i did watch the second season because i was just like gobsmacked i wanted to see what was happening yeah and the second season concludes with well up and down but a huge theme of the show is like this trauma may have fucked us up but it made us

all friends in the end i had i'd heard the premise of and I was like, everyone on Twitter was like talking about how great this show is. So I was like, I think I will probably hate this, so I'll watch it just to have my actual opinion on it. And I watched the whole first season and I was like, how is no one talking about how awful a representation for like suicide, any of this is?

It's a little bit instructive. The suicide elements are pretty like and not only that but it was like vindictive as well to be like like it's really fucked up to like leave people all this content and like being outside their houses and like watching them and like setting it all up and wasn't there a scene i vaguely remember a controversy where something was too instructive and so they took a scene out of a show and they let wow okay oh not necessarily this show just some 13 reasons why it was like uh it

was like uh someone was doing the this is it might have been about because oh god there's so many there's a there's a non-consensual scene in a in a hot tub then it there's the actual act of what the show is about that is shown in full detail and then it ends with like a school shooter yeah subplot and then that continues speaking of shit that is hollywood people hollywood sickos literally just not understanding why something is a dialogue yeah i watched um you know your movie sucks you they go, yeah. I watched him do like a summary of a couple of seasons or do like a let's watch type thing. And in their summarized version of the show, they touch on all of the topics, the hot button topics. And it's truly like just Twitter algorithm breakdown. Like there is a school shooter subplot and it is out of nowhere. There are abuse subplots. There is a, one of the characters is murdered. Only one of the primary kind of villains is murdered.

And then a whole season is about having flashbacks of his life, almost justifying why he sucks. It is this bizarre alien understanding of like why themes exist, what is going on in the world. Sorry to make the episode such a bummer, but these shows fucking suck and should be like blasted for showing this shit as badly as they do. I'm not having like,

there's no like conclusion to it. There's no self-awareness. There's no like. I think that even the, it's like self-awareness without a, like there is a real critique and there's a real substantive like thing that could be said here. You can just like throw it out and then leave it there. It's literally just because it's like supposed to make you think and it's supposed to be a discussion starter.

But like at what cost, right? Like you're not really by, there's certain things that it's like just because you can doesn't mean you should. Yeah, it's like throwing a fucking match into a fireworks factory and then be like let's see what happens yeah and it's like someone going why is it why isn't anybody throwing the match into the fireworks factory because what we're doing is what no one else will do and it's like no no no there's a reason that no one else will do that well the thing about 13 reasons why is that that was produced by selena gomez as well that was like a big thing and talking about like oh oh, we're showing mental health. And then all these therapists

and everybody afterwards were like, this is exactly what you don't do in regards to this. Because I've done like, like charity streams for people that are like dealing with like young people who have to go through mental health struggles and all the like bullet points.

Cause I'm like, let me read it in your words cause I don't want to say anything cause this stuff is so sensitive that you don't want to be like a gateway into anything. Right. And then older points were because i don't want to say anything because this stuff is so sensitive that you don't want to be like a gateway into anything right and then all the points were like don't talk about this don't say this don't describe it this way there's like very like specific vernacular because you don't want to like emulate anything for anybody or give them

a gateway into anything right do you personally like want to utilize the trauma as content yeah so it's it's more about like help is there we will give you the vehicle for that you never like show anybody anything yeah we don't need to tell you why you need help yeah you are yeah yeah it's almost like we as a society like people spend i love that we as a society you said that twice now wow and it's right there's the problem the joker has stolen it from us. Actually. His greatest crime.

This is more like anti-social media. If you think about it. Is that a black mirror? Yeah, it's a black mirror. Oh, fuck. But what I was going to say is like, we as a society, we have, no. What I wanted to say is that people have committed their lives to treating mental illness, learning about like researching and learning the best ways to take care and provide. Yeah.

What's the word? Like rehabilitation and stuff like that. And what comes out of that is best practices. And what comes out of that is, oh, okay, here are triggers. Here are things that you shouldn't say. And then those experts and those people who are embedded in those communities need to propagate out that information into a wider like social learning. Yeah.

And then, and this happens with like, you know, this happens with pronouns and shit like that as well. Then what comes out is the headline of you shouldn't say this or, or, oh, like people are going by different pronouns than I think they should have. And then some contrarian goes actually fuck that without understanding any of the sort of research and sort of depth that's gone into that information is just taking it at surface level and it's like i'm gonna be i'm gonna be cool because i'm not gonna listen to i'm not gonna be a sheep of what the people are telling the woke mind virus exactly and that's what is so frustrating and that's what the idol feels like i have to tell you this line uh and i'm gonna we're gonna censor probably the whole thing but you can find

any of the bad lines in the show you can you can judge by our reactions it's a throwaway line that like a high-flying like uh live nation agent says on the phone about his own frustration with the situation emphasis on flying flying he goes that's in the show and it's a throwaway line oh my god why say it you know what i mean it's just like again another person that existed somebody somebody was in a writer's room and thought that they were clever for making that up they thought that that was like a really like fun, clever, like joke to make. Someone comes back into the room with that script on over the weekend. We,

we, we done the story beats, maybe come up with a couple scenes, but nobody had done the full script comes back, hands that in. And nobody in the room is like principled enough to be like, well, it's confrontational.

You kill your career really quick. Is that I'm not going to be the weekend anymore. I'm not going to do as much music. I'm going to be a serious actor. I'm producing this show. And it's like, well, it's confrontational. And that's how you kill your career really quick is that I'm not going to be The Weeknd anymore. I'm not going to do as much music. I'm going to be a serious actor. I'm producing this show. And it's like, these scripts had to be run by you. Yeah, please don't do this. And this is what you did.

The best parts of the show are when they just play a Weeknd song unedited. Oh, hell yeah. You just go, hey, this song's pretty good. It's fine. You should do this again. You should actually just do that. That neatly, succinctly pulls back into

the art versus the artist right truly and that's what we do here and his work is only well i mean like his last time's fucking phenomenal like it's just an incredible piece of work his whole like narrative that he's been on and it's weird sometimes and the same can apply to us any creator whatever we are filtering no matter how sincere we might seem we are filtering certain parts of ourselves out for the benefit of the audience but also ourselves and do you guys ever worry that particular things your personality or like things you'll joke with a friend or something if somebody that's you know the kind of person that reaches out like hey i was depressed but then your content really helped and so and so sometimes I'll like hang out with a friend and I'll make a little edgy joke and I'll laugh and I'll think, oh, I'm really.

Would that make that person sad? Yeah. Am I contributing? I didn't say it, but I. I think it gets to a point where it's. Yeah, it's interesting. Like, obviously, if people are dropping like slurs, that's the point where you're like, dude, come on. Yeah. obviously if people are dropping like slurs that's the point where you're like dude come on yeah or like the austin powers impersonator who we had who was like sit on my facebook or he kept going

around calling people gay and it's like i was saying it to ethan on our podcast yesterday that that's the first time like i'm such a people pleaser in like social situations where normally i'm like ha ha ha like awkwardly laughing and afterwards i'm like why did i go along with that yeah what's wrong with me oh well but that's you're in a compromised position in that moment you know like when i was taking driving lessons i got my driver's license only a couple of years ago i remember one day i had a substitute driving instructor and while in the car with this man who like i was kind of at his mercy in this moment is talking about how yeah women always mess things up at his job and it's like yeah women are awful right jarvis and i go you know it's like

they're like uncomfortable in the car something's like making them feel on edge but it's also like you're never going to see that person again so i'm not going to like make a big deal about it now right you're principled enough to not carry that with you and yeah and i think there's a difference between like always like exemplifying your principles to your the um detriment of your own safety you know what i mean or or even like or to the debt like a obviously the right thing for all of us to do in the moment was it's not our job to educate this uh austin powers impersonator that we paid 200 it's to just go oh haha okay goodbye sir or to be like this is a funny story that we'll all have yeah um because ultimately harmless but a little peculiar in the moment and also he we

should say we had an austin powers person so back up a little bit so you're probably wondering how I friend Chrissy's birthday and um I get a text from Katie in the morning that's like well okay so leading up to this the theme of the party was like so Austin Powers is a guy from the 90s he was a spy that shagged me yeah um so the theme of the party was like 70s Katie and then Chrissy was telling me oh we wanted to get a Nixon impersonator, but we couldn't find one. What could that be? Yeah. You know what I mean? For hours.

Like, what is that performance? I don't know. And then Katie texts me and is like, I found an Austin Powers impersonator that is available tonight. Should we all pool our money and book him? And we're all just like yes this has to happen because this is such an absurd absurd thing and then um i'm trying to think if there's anything else relevant oh we got the text we want that maybe the highlight of the entire event i mean ultimately i'm glad we did it it was very funny yeah but i kind of wish he had left after doing his song oh yes he

did for some reason he doesn't sing songs katie was like yeah katie was like he says he's gonna sing a special song and i was like austin powers doesn't sing songs yeah and it's one of those songs that's like those emails where it's just copy paste name in here like the name doesn't have to rhyme into the song or anything uh did you guys have at any point an extended conversation with him yes he oh every conversation is extended he won't let it be short and then by the end of the conversation he hands you one of his cards yeah have you do you guys look at the other characters he plays uh i did and then threw in the bin one of them is steve owen what is that for three hours he was australian worth noting yeah yeah

but it was interesting because he came up and was like after he because i was wearing like i didn't have a 70s outfit because i just came in and then ethan was like we're going to this party it's 70s themed i was like i have no clothes like that so he gave me like a cowboy outfit i was wondering because we got the photo and you posted it so uh yeah so it looks so sick the cowboy outfit it looks sick you can see um me and billy having a staring contest in the background yeah it really just encapsulates the night so i had like all these like tassels or frills on me and he came up to me and said oh are you are you being ridden and was like flicking them and i was like i was like okay how do i make a joke out of this i was like no i'm the one writing and he was like oh are you

gay baby and i was like i don't know how that makes sense so i just went oh and i just turned my back on him yeah he's it's like okay i will i do have to say austin powers not a politically correct character and sex sex and innuendo is kind of his thing but this guy was like he like took it to the end he took it to the end to the degree austin powers his thing isn't going are you gay yeah that was the thing and he was also using like other terminology where i'm like you're not really allowed to be the one to call them that he's a slightly older man but not old enough, nobody's old enough to justify it, but certainly not. I mean, I was like maybe 50, like not old enough for this to be a thing he believes is okay. He came over then and was like talking to me and he was like, do I hear an accent, baby?

And I was like, yeah, I'm from Ireland. I like live in the UK now. And he was like, I'm British. And like lifted up his shirt and he had a union jack belt. Okay. And then he just handed me his card and left. I'm like, okay. And then I looked at the card and i'm like you're australian yeah you're not british don't tell anybody well but awesome he was in character until he wasn't oh i lost my mojo but that's the thing

like he came in did his impersonator thing and i was like oh that was kind of fun he said like one thing was like sit on my facebook right it was like, it was funny because we were hyping him up so much. Like literally everything he was saying, he was, he got information from us. Like we put together a list of things about Chrissy beforehand. Yeah. I didn't see him like reading his manifesto. He was like, and you, um. You like mocktails.

Like mocktails. Why don't you like cocktails the funniest thing i've ever seen in my life is austin powers for like 30 seconds trying to connect to a bluetooth speaker yeah baby i just happened a few times where he's doing something logistical but then remembered what he was supposed to be doing we just go yeah baby yeah reading his email door dash is here fuck he came with his own bluetooth speaker um and the 70s he sang a song he was a good singer apparently used to be a gospel singer did a lot of twirls did a lot of twirls and yeah so everything he was saying in his speech we were all just like and then he starts like commenting to eddie you know eddie burback friend of the show who is chrissy's boyfriend the mr beast burger guy mr beast burger guy uh he shut down single

handedly and uh then he started making he was like are you a grower or a shower baby and everybody's like yeah and he was like making innuendos about cocktails and cocktails mocktails more like a wink wink it was always the like cocktails yeah yeah sit on my face book yeah no so then he ended with sit on sit on my face book and then everybody was like lighting his girlfriend's candles for the birthday and he was like hey hey hey hey like everybody's face just went dead i was like dude no yeah everyone's go nope not that one and chrissy was just like fucking help me yeah basically what could that mean sit on my facebook i i think he's the kind of guy that gets hired for like 50 year old like bachelorette parties and it's like a bunch of like cougars who are like single and like yeah i remember facebook he says stuff like that and they're like okay like i think it works more than it doesn't

i think he probably thought it was at a bachelorette party yeah yeah yeah funny to hire him for a bachelorette party but as the queen what was interesting to me is that impersonators normally do their bit and leave but he was like time to be best friends and everybody but he stayed in character yeah he called it um so we we had to move it a little bit because we and katie were running behind but she called him had it on speakerphone revealed he was early and that took me back for a second and then he good eye baby the first text he ever sent to katie was just hi it's austin powers four hundred dollars just the price and then that was it and then shagadelic baby remember from the movie gold member baby but he uh when he when we had to like move it one of the things he

was talking about like gas prices and how long it would take to get there in logistics but then never meet your heroes yeah once you've heard austin paris talk about gas frames it really ruins the whole thing for you when we kind of like when we asked him if he sticks around after or how it works or whatever uh he revealed that basically he was like i'll see how i feel depends on the vibe and then i'll stick around a little while which is what a drug dealer does yeah they deal and they're like hey can i sleep on the couch? Australian drug deal. Yeah. And he was in character, like trying to get to know people. There was one moment where I was like coming down to the bathroom here. And then as I was walking by Jake and Eddie

were talking to him. And as I was coming down the stairs, both of them leaned over the railing and went, help me. Yeah, dude. And I was like, sorry. I was, yeah, I was hoping we could find a way to kick him out or like when he would leave. He didn't too too long which was nice it was like after like two hours and then it was long enough to remember it was long enough now that i have a core memory i'm like if we had paid him more money would he have stayed for less time i feel like he's like oh well i get a little bit of cocktail in me but he has does he have like all his outfits in the boot of his car just like pull it open and then it's like oh here's several other characters it's like a russian doll if he takes that costume off the owen one underneath yeah he just one thing we can't play because it's like too long but we

found a clip of just him do it we were like what's what is his queen elizabeth like what's he doing oh you found this we found a clip he does a queen elizabeth yeah i missed that somewhere it's a really really long clip responding to the Oprah interview with Harry and Meghan. It's right after it comes out. And it is. Okay. Initially, you think, wow, that's so inappropriate to make a joke out of this. What if I were to tell you it's not a joke?

It's a five minute plus clip of him doing what a if. It's like fan fiction. Yeah, exactly. A world where Queen Liz apologized and it's just that we're in multiverse times right now which reminds me about The Flash

as a movie I saw I was going to say about art versus artists yeah oh yeah absolutely I will say I liked it more than I thought we went as a joke and I really liked it. Yeah, me. Oh, no.

Me, Ethan and Justin went to watch it. And I was like, because I was like, let's watch it and it'll be shit. And we'll talk about it on like Brain Leak. And oh, let's rip it apart. And then I watched it and I was like, man, this is kind of fun. Yeah. I got to say, dude, of this extended universe, which is now being sunsetted, it's the best one. Yeah.

There's a lot of shit in it that makes no sense. There's a lot of stuff in it that's really stupid. It's a, you can see the stitching between scripts, like where one script got rewritten. I mean, there's a whole like five minute scene where he's like slow motion catching babies mid air and like putting one in a microwave. Oh yeah. Babies with. CG babies.

I can't believe that CG was published in a movie yeah oh like it's like ps2 game it's like they lead into it i guess um there was some cool stuff in it like um that like the time bubble like effect when he goes back in time is really cool and i i fucking hate how he runs in slow motion as like that fucking. Oh. But it does get paid off where he can't do it at one point. So he's like, I want to see if my powers work. And then he like is running through all the way in like real time.

But of course, here's what I'm really conflicted about. Ezra Miller, terrible person. I always hated it. The character was always annoying. Yeah. Which I feel like the last time I saw The Flash was like the justice like i haven't seen like the four hour extended which i don't think it adds much but i feel like he's a different character now he's a lot more palatable in this movie he felt like way more like skittish and anxious and weird and quirky and i'm like i don't

remember him being like that and i for the whole start of the movie i was like oh he's like an alternate one that the original one's going to come into multiverse he is acting too hard it's like acting with a capital a there's scenes where he has to look like he's basically paired up in like a buddy duo with a more annoying character and you see him kind of you know it's like it's a decent character arc he does alter and become a little less annoying and more of an adult yeah but every scene where the guy is annoying the other guy you see him like his eye twitch like a cartoon yeah you can see him be like oh rats it's just so what's so weird is that a movie that has terrible cg like in almost every scene there's almost no cg in the movie that's good looking yeah but all the scenes with him and himself

are all flawless there's no like there's no weirdness about both of them being in the scene together. It actually feels like there's two of them. Does it feel? Okay, so I know that they're sunsetting this because James Gunn is taking over the DC. Yeah, they're rebooting the whole thing. He's kind of, I think, going to extract pieces that might still work. It's possible that Wonder Woman remains.

Yeah, because they said that Supergirl might come back because she was so loved by everybody. Aquaman 2 has still not come out, so that's something that's going to happen. I was wondering if they were, yeah, going to keep the casting, you know. I think Ezra Miller, in the movie it implies it would, but... Ezra Miller shouldn't be allowed to do that again. Yeah. I mean, especially if he goes to jail.

I do want to, they pronouns on Ezra Miller, but yeah, yeah, yeah. They, they, I, well,

I was going to say that as well. I think they mentioned in another interview, cause some people for articles about this, we're saying he too. And I think it's changed where I think. Oh, I see. I see.

Yeah. I could be wrong about it though. So I apologize for mislabeling. But yeah, that's interesting. That is apologies of mine as well. Let's just revert to they. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They are a bad person. Because I, there was stuff starting with them, like they were beating up people in like pubs in Hawaii. In Hawaii, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it like happened again and everyone's like, oh man.

And then it started to evolve into like kidnapping. Kidnapping, yeah. And like guns. And I don't even know like the full story.'t even know like the full story i don't know the full story either but all of it was horrible and so i was surprised of this like production desperation where it's like we're so deep we just have to yeah because they

cancel like the batgirl movie yeah yeah yeah that was done yeah and that was finished cancel this one so i'm like maybe they just put it because there's like 220 million to make it they're probably like we need to make something back. And I think the Batgirl movie was not going to be theatrically released. Yeah. Max original. I did talk to, I randomly found myself at a party, like an outdoor, I think it was like a political fundraiser or something. I do not know how I ended up there.

Because you donated to DeSantis. Right. Yeah. Because, yeah yeah it was in florida yeah um ron de sanctimon i did everything right and they indicted me um but you think you can't get funnier and he finds a way okay but uh i don't know funnier is the term to use for him. I met an accountant at like Max or at HBO Max who had like seen that movie. And I was like, how is it? And he was like, nah, it's not really good. The Batgirl movie?

Batgirl, yeah. But I've still, obviously like I'm not in favor of all of the weird tax loophole shit they're doing with like shelving projects that have been made or deleting things off streaming websites. Everyone's that now which i think is ridiculous netflix is doing it as well how do you feel as somebody with a significant platform about endorsing or dismantling or pushing people away from seeing the movie in the movie eight shit it's making no money but is there any part of

you that wants to be like it's hey it's it's fine but i please don't go and see it i feel like it would be hypocritical of me to say that after having watched it um and talking about it as well i think yeah i don't know i feel like people are going to do that anyway people are going to go see things regardless of what i say or do i think i think they're for other stuff yeah i it's weird about the responsibility thing because it does i want to be like a good person i want to lead a good life and i want to like lead people in a good direction and it's like but there's also like fallibility to everything like you're not going to get everything right. I think there are way bigger, more important battles to be fighting. And I think it's also important to not excuse the Ezra Miller of it all while

the movie is like happening. But it does come back to that idea again of like, like the people making the stuff versus what it is. Cause it was a big thing with diablo as well was coming out and everyone's like well blizzard activision suck and yeah there's a whole history of that and i'm like i have friends that like worked on the game and they're excited about it and the team are excited about it yeah and they're like pumped up about it they're asking like what we thought about it and i played the game and everything so i'm like i like other people make the product versus the

one person that's right shitty yeah but that doesn't excuse the shittiness so I'm like I I think for me a big a big reason for it is that a lot of people come to me because it's like oh you have 30 million subs and you've like found your way through life so they want answers out of me sure but I'm like I also don't have the answer to that I also don't know what I'm doing and I think that's important yeah yeah and I'm not going to sit here and like posture on anyone and like like i've said words in the past that i'm like man i'm so glad i don't say that shit anymore and i hate that i ever said those like types of words to like groups of friends when i was a teenager to be like oh i'm funny yeah of course but it's like i think it's

just growing evolving learning yeah trying to like do the right thing yeah always opening yourself i i think that anyone who pretends to have the answers yeah um like as a personality trait is annoying to me because and is lying and is lying because you you don't like we're you know and we're always i think staying open to criticism open to learning open to hearing the dissenting voices and yeah yeah like i think i think it's when you I think the important thing is to be receptive to people um because it was a big time in my life for like growing up in like small town Ireland there's a lot of like like there's a lot of like bullshit that goes on and you are a product of your environment and I think I had a lot of like

mentalities held over from that and then as I start doing YouTube and I start going on tour and going to conventions and you start meeting people of all types of orientations, ethnicities, beliefs, races. And then it kind of, it's like, man, my, like my experience through life is like nothing really. It's just like my own perspective on everything. And then the more people I met and people like teaching me about like, like LGBT stuff and like going through like one of my editors is trans and like i'm learning

a lot that way yeah and i think it's just being receptive to that and like finding like information out of it and then moving forward and like being okay the stuff that i did in the past and what i say like i'm just going to try not do that anymore i mean there's a big there's a big like delta between having like behaving in a way because you feel you you feel you've been told to and then doing it from a place of empathy instead or even doing something from a place of sympathy because you believe it but then actually having friends that have uh i don't think i had any uh publicly trans friends in my small British town. Yeah. But once I moved to San Francisco and went into tech,

a lot of my friends were. And I did have to confront the idea that, well, yeah, I mean, in England in college, I normally would say then, yeah, you know, hey, I support, I'm an ally, I support trans people. Yeah. But ultimately, do I really know what that means? Do I have any, outside of like saying the things that Reddit is telling me to say. Yeah, what's the like forward facing versus the actual. Yeah, what's the harder version of it?

Like actually confronting your biases and stuff. Right. Yeah. Which gaming culture is kind of mixed on. Yeah. Could be not the healthiest sometimes. We're not the best at it um but i think things are at least moving at least i hope kind of like in the right direction yeah definitely helps more the

fact that there are more lgbtqia plus people in the industry i don't know why i like tweeted like pre like about a week ago or something that i was just like i was on my phone like on twitter and i was going through like shit. And it was like so much like, like toxic men shit going around. And I feel like that's more prominent than it's ever been. And I'm like, man,

I grew up in a time when there was so much like depression and no one talked about it. And like the male, like suicide rates in Ireland were like sky high and still are. And I'm like, cause no one's talking about it. And you all like have all these like bullshit ideologies that need to be like dismantled right right and i grew up like playing video games and was so like emotionally involved and i cried at everything and everyone

like looked down on me and i'm like why am i the freak right and i'm like man it's so nice that like kids these days are so open and right yeah you're supposed to bottle yourself up and then and then die and never share yeah because you never share your pain with anyone it gives you nothing it gives you yourself back doesn't reward you your kids your friends your culture anything and the thing i always come back to is that there's a lot of like examples in history where like stuff that people hate like racially sexually that kind of stuff like it always like knocks that wall down anyway and progresses and it's like all that stuff just keeps moving forward and keeps getting

better. And people are always progressing and talking about it more. It's like, you're just going to get left behind if you don't like figure shit out for yourself and reconcile it and be a decent person. I mean, well said. So Jordan,

you know how we have like a, how is your week segment? Yeah. Or like a mope score segment. Yeah. My Jordan, I dig a trademark. how are you feeling? How's, how are you doing mope score wise? Mope score for those who don't know, obviously Sean, you know,

you keep track of the work I do. You're kind of a fan. You read a lot of fanfic about my big muscles. Yeah. The mope score is a score out of a hundred possible percent. The higher the score, the higher the mope on a good day might have a 10 it's not healthy oh so lower is better so it's like golf rules right it's like being number one as opposed to number two yeah you know on like some kind of score i think a few things about that actually it's like a grade socially right sort of like a color scheme uh but yeah it's i don't know rocking Rocking a nifty, nifty 20. We had a meeting earlier this week, you and me, that was very helpful.

Brought a lot of stress down for me. Love meetings. And then, I just fucking love talking about stuff. And then, we just partied like a couple nights in a row and I'm still, I'm emotionally hungover. It's the only thing maybe keeping me low. No, that's me. I'm still, I'm emotionally hung over. Oh yeah. Is the only thing maybe keeping me low? No, that's me. I'm tired. I'm so tired.

I'm tired. I slept all of yesterday. Why did we become weak? Like what happened? We got old. Yeah. Oh yeah, shit. But overall I'm, I'm good.

My Mope score I would say is like, I'd say 20 is good. I think the only thing contributed to mope is just being tired and then uh and then there's like a wee bit of stress because in excitement it's excitement and stress because this week big week it's vidcon everybody's in town but that also means there's a lot of more socializing that i have to do and uh we got a lot of work cut out for us we're recording some pods and uh ultimately patron and you see us you just give her the five dollars in person yeah we'll take it we'll just get it we'll send it to our old bosses i'll get it all sorted out mail it over yeah mail it over to jack conti and say uh you know what to do jay sean how about yourself How are you doing this week?

You're in town. Yeah. Which is like, I would be tired. I'm tired just thinking about the flight. Admit it. You're in town. I'd say I'm at like a 40. But like a couple of weeks ago, I was probably at 80.

Okay. Where I was like going through a massive depressive episode out of nowhere, feeling like really burnt out and stressed and being like man my artistry is not like being like enabled at all and i have like all these ideas of things i want to do and overworking myself and all the parts that i don't want to be doing yes and then catalyst for that or just turned up i think it's just kind of like been building for a while and it happens every now and then where i i just go go like a hundred percent or zero percent. Oh yeah. Yeah. Is it, are, so you mentioned ADHD earlier. Are you an ADHD haver? Oh yeah. So is, is that like a, you're like hyper-focused sometimes?

I have, I have diagnosed like general anxiety, health-based anxiety, depression and ADHD. Cool. So it's like, I got the-based anxiety, depression, and ADHD. Cool. So it's like, I got the fucking, yeah, I got the stew. Yeah. I'm, I'm a ADHD and anxiety, depression kind of guy. But yeah, I, I have a hard time like motivating myself to do things and I get really into it for like two weeks and if it doesn't get done, then I'm out.

Yeah. Um, so I have like projects that I've been trying to do for a long time and I always thought that I could like, I can do this and then I can do the coffee and then i can do like the podcast and then a narrative project right and i'm like other people on youtube can do that why can't i do that and then i've been going to see a therapist like it weekly since december oh that's like helped me kind of like reconcile with a lot of stuff and like be like you don't have to be like that you don't have to be like other people and i i compare myself like endlessly to other people it's the worst well the truth is is that they aren't like that like the idea we have of them is just exactly what they've done in my head like i say

that to her too but it's like the idealized the the thing is that i'm not i'm not like i don't want to be them i just want to like take that motivation. Right. Like I want that energy sometimes. Like I've been dealing with a lot of fatigue stuff and it like bums me out. I try to be like, fortunately I've been in therapy for a few years and have like the tools to like be kind to myself when I'm going through it. But it is frustrating to be tired and not be able to do the things I want to do.

Well, it's the same. It's like, you can go to the gym, you know how to get your body in shape, but it's like, I'm still going to gain weight. Yeah.

Like in a certain mood. Yeah. It's like, no one has it figured out. Everyone's. And even the people that I look up to that I like idolize that version. I'm like, all you do is work and you have no social life.

Right. And I, I like really value my time away from what i do yeah um what's it for otherwise it's like yeah exactly what's it for and then you can't take it with you yeah exactly yeah and it feeds the soul i think yeah when i'll see you there by the way hell is the second place on the podium yeah yeah kids tv or whatever is going to number one yeah they're the only ones in heaven imagine that's how you get in. They like check your social place.

Where are you on an Irish social? But yeah, I am being in town is helpful because being in Brighton, we don't have many friends to kind of hang out with. And I, I'm someone that like, I need my time away from people to like recharge, but I really get a lot of energy from social interactions.

Yeah. So when I don't have it for a while, I'm just kind of like sitting there miserable on my own. What brought you to Brighton? We, I lived in Ireland. I was 26 when I moved to Brighton. And then I was thinking like, should I move to LA? Should I move to London?

And I just didn't really know where I wanted to be. I just knew I didn't want to live in Ireland anymore. And LA seemed a bit too scary, a bit too big, a bit too noisy. And I didn't know if I would like it. And like trying to get a visa and everything, I didn't know how that would go. We know. So I was like, maybe London, but that also seemed a bit too busy. And then Felix lived in Brighton at the time.

So I went over and visited him for two days. And I was like, man, this is great. Like London's so close. I can just get there in an hour. It's calm's calm it's collected it's it's a very progressive town like there's a big pride lgbt sort of aspect to it and pride is like massive there every year right so it's just it's something i think i take for granted having lived in san francisco and los angeles yeah cities yeah it's just like i think the mentality of people is better there and everyone's just chill and doing their own thing and everything's kind of like homegrown all the shops seemed kind of

cozy yeah so it just it had a really good vibe to it and i just decided to pull the trigger on that thing yeah there can be some like cultural freshness from tourist towns a little bit like it can be also a little overwhelming but yeah i grew up in the farmer's market capital of england and as a result in stroud gloucestershire gripping gloucestershire way right my lover another great day in god's country i will say hot fuzz is my favorite movie of all time you're welcome brother that's based in that part of the world look i knew you'd enjoy it i spoke to edgar hey i'm like 13. And I deserve a movie about me.

Here on Sad Boys, we celebrate Edgar's rights and wrongs. So now that Felix has moved to Japan, you're going to Japan next? Is that the move? Yeah, we want to. But they're having a kid soon. Japan is. It's due very soon. Because you were going to be the kid. They could. Oh. Because you were going to be the kid.

They could maybe adopt you. You were going to be the kid. Yeah. Would you admit, by the way, that on the way to here, you may have, Jarvis told you that we're on a different floor than we were on the party a little lower down. You did say, good, less stairs for daddy. Less stairs for daddy.

Yeah. Yeah. And then you tweeted, and we do have record of this um what is what was it exactly i like to say a lot of dumb shit now you can call me daddy yeah because yesterday people said happy father's day because it's like oh you raised me like as joking right of course i was like stop saying happy father's day to me as a joke now you can call me daddy and then i call myself being daddy a couple of days ago so and so that's your thing now it's fun when it's like a joke oh yeah

but then it's like i've known my boundaries well enough by now to be like okay it's not funny anymore shut up yay ali milan which everyone will agree to yeah nobody is gonna take it too far forever yeah it's like the pedro pascal thing where he gets called daddy and now it's kind of like gone too far but he's too nice to say no and i'm like pedro this is like like 2016 vidcon era like you're going through yeah i can teach you yeah yeah come under my wing just say no yeah give me some of the armor and i'll teach you anything you want yeah because me and mark went through it with septa plier for long time. Where it's like, you kind of like, I'm sure you guys get like shipped together and. You know. We don't want to check.

Yeah. Sometimes we don't want to check. I think so, but we don't want to check. I believe I've blocked AO3 for myself so that I don't have to read it. It has to be Twitter and then we'll see it. But no. Maybe the like overly shipping era is kind of done. There's enough discourse about it now where people are like,

these are real people, maybe shipping real people. They just all move to the Minecrafters. Right. Oh, the shittier part is just any time there is a non male in the commentary space and they do any, uh,

collab with a guy, the dating that's like the top comment every time yeah did anybody else notice some chemistry between two friends that have known each other for years smiled at her there was a laughing a comment recently on a video that i did with one of our female friends was like her hair is wet she they clearly just got out of the shower together i was like what is going on the toxic masculine thing i was talking about a little bit ago yeah yeah yeah but we we got shipped together a lot and then it was kind of like fun like a bromance like we're good friends kind of thing and then you like lean into it a little bit and like take like little cute pictures

together and then it just like went way too far where i like it was just like pictures of us fucking all the time well because at the time too when i think that is such a weird outcropping of behavior where it's like new and interesting and it's like oh whatever this seems harmless and then you realize the harm and you're like oh the joke is imagine if i was gay yeah that'd be funny um so we kind of like shut that down and then people were respectful of that and kind of like stop doing it but it's like yeah that was a weird era and that that was that's not just like us learning our way through it that was the internet learning their way through that space right and it's always done well usually done with like pretty innocent or positive intent.

It's people that genuinely enjoy exploring that, but then like, it's fun to play into it, but then also when is it queer baiting and when is it kind of us being post ironic sarcastic? And I think Dan and Phil talked about that too. They were the first era, like Ian and Anthony as well. Right. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And now Anthony and anybody that goes on his show ever. like they were the first era like ian and anthony as well right yeah wow yeah and now anthony and anybody that goes on his show ever yeah did you notice just the the vibes on this one yeah yeah

but now it is like the internet now know like oh if the real people we shouldn't do that which is i mean progress yeah the internet's like learning its way through it yeah yeah yeah um probably partly tumblr's lack of relevance as a platform yeah once they took the porn off that everyone was like yeah this is so weird i have a question for you uh do you ever get tired of being loud in a video yes the character of it yes i think that that was like my first after the five-year mark where i'm like i don't know if i'm me anymore or if i'm like a character that I've curated because the blending of like Jack and Sean was like non-existent it was just the

same person right and then I'm like there was a clear divide somewhere that happened and now I'm like I like I flip a switch when I go into a video but even like I was watching um I I was watching you react to like uh this is a blast from the past, but it was like adults react like those Fine Brothers videos. Adults react to Jacksepticeye and then you reacting to that. Yep. And it was so interesting to see like, you're like, yo, yeah, it's like the cartoon of me. Yeah. They're reacting to that.

But then obviously there's the person. Yeah, there's Sean. There's Jack. to that but then obviously there's the person yeah there's sean there's jack and then there's the evolution of that over time because obviously like if you watch a a 2023 jack septic high video to like a 2016 jack septic high video there's very different a maturation that has occurred yeah i think some of it is not good why i got to that point because i think a lot of it was that was just my natural personality and I was like loud and energetic and excited sure and I think at some point enough people were telling me that it was annoying that I was insecure about that where it's like it wasn't that

many people in the grand scheme of things but I kept hearing it of course consecutively over years that it started to just like wear me down I know what you mean and then I I think I started like getting sick of myself and worrying that I was a bit too much and i i'm a person that if i'm in a group setting i'm just always making jokes and that's like i mean it's great that's just how i am but there's always somebody that at some point is like always a joke huh and then that's immediately like like they're like seven year old and me that has like kid trauma comes out where i'm like i just shut down yeah i'm like oh i'll leave sorry it's like oh did you want me to go away forever yeah I like I've gotten better at it but there was a time like 2016 to like 2018 where I'm like I self-reflect I'm like

am I annoying like am I are people just being nice to me because I'm like popular or whatever number one social fail all the time am I being annoying and i can't notice it yeah i will say that you know from an outsider's perspective and like not knowing you well through you know we've only met recently comparatively yeah and like uh you've always come across as very kind and well adjusted and like you know i think that i have a lot of respect for creators who've like kind of been around the block in in the have seen kind of the arc of like the highest highs and can still be normal people at the end of the day. Because I, I do, I think we have tons of examples of even a modicum of success, like heavily corrupting people.

Yeah. And so I think, um, you being a chill dude was a big green flag for me. Well, I think that that was the thing that I was always enamored by was meeting like, like Aaron Hansen is a good example of like someone that I really looked up to. And then I met him. I'm like, you're exactly who I thought you were. And you're not hiding anything. And that's, that's what I like strived to emulate when I started off. And that was always what was more fun to be around yeah and I think

like I lived in a log cabin in the woods when I was like 18 and was like severely depressed and lonely and I'm like I'm very lucky that I get to be in LA and do the things I do and know the people I do so I'm always like like thinking back to that yeah it's like the Irishness in me where it's like don't get too big for your boots the only right it's like a very I think it's like, don't get too big for your boots. The only way. Right, right, right. It's like a very, I think it's a very like European thing to do was like just break yourself down a little bit. Right. And now after Brexit, of course, England has become extremely open and emotional.

People are more engaged with, yeah, more. You caught with your pants down? I will. I'm curious. I have only a few pieces of information to go on, but I'm wondering how you end up in these situations where you're isolated from society and depressed. I don't,

I've been going through that with my therapist where apparently I seek out relationships that abandoned me, which I never thought about. And I'm like, I have like a whole bunch of stuff with like, cause my family were never like very emotionally open when I was younger. So I like learned a lot of the stuff that I know by just watching, I would like just sit back and like watch people and be quiet.

Right. And I think I started using humor as like a coping mechanism as many of us do. Yeah. So I was like, I was always like the diffuser or like deescalator. And then as I just got older, I don't know. I just,

the people, I never really like connected with people like in Ireland growing up. And I'm sure England as well. It's like like everyone just likes going out and drinking and everyone's like more depressed than they say they are yeah and it's like small town mentality where no one has any ambition to kind of like leave and the social bubble is kind of like keeping them in right and as soon as you express it it gets battered down because if you have ambition that means that I'm falling behind yeah so instead of me getting ambition i'm going to pull yours oh mr hollywood over here yeah the big example i always hear is like

american people will see like a house on a hill and be like that's going to be me someday whereas irish people are like who the fuck does he think he is yeah yeah yeah oh look at money bags so i think that aspect of me and always trying to like overly remain humble throughout my whole life yeah and like not get too big for my boots it's kind of like aided me a little bit in that regard but yeah it's a slippery slope though because i uh just have always been a very self-critical person and i think that's been great for pushing myself but it's also a double-edged sword in that i can turn on myself and just be really mean to myself. And it's like, Oh, stop that. You're not, this isn't productive to do this like survival. You

know, you think you're like, um, you think you're going to make yourself more, uh, palatable to people by kind of criticizing yourself so that no one else can criticize you. You can catch everything that everyone else is going to say, but at the end of can criticize you you can catch everything that everyone else is going to say but at the end of the day you can just be mean to yourself for no reason yeah and it's also hard to celebrate your wins because it's like i don't want to be cocky or arrogant it's like if it's good it'll talk for itself yeah but i think my stuff comes from like having a family and like two older brothers that i was always trying to emulate and be cool too and like really try and like look up to and aspire to be are you the youngest yeah okay so any of the like male

relationships in my life i treated the same way so it was always like i was always looking for like big brothers in my life yeah and then sometimes i meet people that don't live up to that and i'm always like trying to fix people and i'm a people pleaser and i i keep trying to like match myself to what they need rather than like figuring out what my own needs are and it's only within like the last like two three years that I really like don't do that anymore I mean that's amazing like growth and it's also like very great to recognize that about yourself because it's like it's we're always on a journey you know yeah it's it's trying to like um not to like put a dower on the subject but it was it was a lot of like my dad

passing like a couple of years ago which was like like i was never like hugely close to my dad and like we didn't share like a hugely emotional bond but when that happens like i think every person goes through it like the parent you sort of relate to right you kind of like see yourself in that and then it was like okay what were his aspirations what were his goals was he happy what were his dreams what was unfulfilled what was left on the table yeah and i think i was trying to like start living my life a bit better to be like okay i have health issues i should get those checked out that's why i got checked for adhd all that kind of stuff right right i was like okay try and like i got big into like stoicism and philosophy and like dismantling like my manhood in a way. And like, just really trying to like, like pare myself back and figure

out what was going on and what made me tick. And I think I really had to like destroy so many aspects of me to like build it back up and figure out like what was behind it all. Ego death is the only way it's almost like a shedding the arrogance a little bit. Yeah. Because ultimately that bad behavior of saying, I need to please people or I need to adhere to certain masculine values or something along those lines is just assuming that you are right. Yeah. Like I know what this person needs to be pleased by, whereas in reality the healthiest thing to do is be like,

I'm a fucking idiot. I'm like anybody else, I'm dumb. And I don't know what's best for me. Sometimes a professional is what helps with that. sometimes just self-reflection and some life changes sometimes it's all of it yeah and a big one for me was that like kid energy that i always had because i always as the older i got i was like man i'm just immature and i'm like a fuck up and i'm kind of like too goofy for my own good and it helped with youtube but then i was like i know i need to be mature now i need to be like a man. And then I was talking to my therapist about it. And I was using like the

John Snow quote of like, kill the boy and become the man. No, like you can be both. And like a good way of thinking about it is that you always have like two ages within you. And me and Aaron were talking about this when he was over in Brighton that it's like, like what would, what would you consider each other's like kid age to be? If you were to say like, like what would, what would you consider each other's like kid age to be? If you were to say like, there's an adult version of you and a kid version of you, how old are each of those to each other? Okay. So Jordan's adult age is like 45. More or less. Yeah. Yeah. And then kid age 13. Hmm. That's bang on. Yeah.

I think kid age, it's definitely the feeling of being on the precipice of being a grownup. Yeah. That's explicit. It's not like frolicking in the river or whatever it is being fairly isolated. But when I am hanging out with people, we're just like getting drunk and doing drugs. Yeah.

That's like the young version, but because I wanted to perform older which is also when i think i adopted some performative manic energy that for a while i just saw in my content early episodes of sad boys i feel like i'm a little over performative i mean we all are yeah of course yeah but then that is the age to be performative it's like i want people to like me. That's like becoming an adult. And then I think my grownup, the 45 year old version of that is just, Hey,

I can't wait to get there. Cause that's when I'll be done. Once I'm 45, all this stuff that's hard right now, my health issues will be gone because I'm old. And that's when they stop happening. Sure. Bad calculation.

I think in your case, hit me i see your kid age at around 15 okay because i think are well actually i won't even tell you i'll just i'll give you the age like you did okay and then adult age mid-30s okay i'll take it. I think, yeah. Cause they not, not to cut you off, but I bring it up because it's like,

you can have both versions of yourself at the same time. It's like when you want to play and when you want to have fun and when you want to party, that's when the kid version of you kind of comes out, but it's like business meetings work. The adult version of you. Right. Yeah.

It's very telling which energy you shift into for those ages. My adult trying to be fun or my kid going to a meeting. Yeah. Yeah. Not to be dour, but like my mom passed very early when I was 11 years old and she was my primary caretaker and I had no father figure at any point in time. And so,

and so at that point, and it wasn't my birth mother, I didn't have a relationship with my birth mother. This is just like extended Jarvis lore. I don't know how much I talk about this stuff though. This is fascinating. But I was like, I was in this, I was in a household with my mom and my aunt. And then my mom passed and my aunt was like a recluse.

And she like always stayed in a room and like wasn't ever really social. Were you close to your mom i was super close to my mom and she was like almost like a fixer where like anything anything i wanted she would like figure out how to make it work we did not come up with money or anything like that but there were like these magazines where you could uh you could pay as you go where it would be like oh you want an n64 well that's like 150 bucks or uh 20 payments of 15 and you're like okay well that adds up to three that adds up to double the price but you can get it now and your kid can like play zelda or whatever and like have a happy childhood figuring out stuff like that when you are a kid seems like magic yeah

like oh they just made the thing happen yeah literally and so it was that it was like um and she was like sort of my biggest fan had all these scrapbooks have all these like um you know like newspaper clippings or things like that from from my childhood and and then i was just a shitty little kid with undiagnosed adhd so i was always like i don don't want to clean my room. I'll get to it in a minute. Uh, you know, ADHD, like intense, uh, I don't know if you guys experienced this, but context switching is very difficult. So like if I event in a day, yeah. So it's like, if I'm like playing a game and I need to not be playing the game and doing something else, it feels like physical pain where I'm like, I don't want to do that. Um, but when, uh, my mom passed, I didn't really have some, someone or something

to fill that role. And the things that adults always told me was, Oh, you had to grow up so fast. And so I think there is a part of me that I feel like I've in a way had to be independent since I was, I like kind of had to raise myself since I was like 12. I had caretakers and people who were like looking out for me, but on a day to day basis, people who were, there was nobody teaching me lessons about life or taking me under their wing. I was just having to siphon that information from other people, from friends, from their parents. Like nobody was telling me I needed to apply to college. So I like ended up,

I fortunately was like really good at like, uh, school, uh, just like the good side of my ADHD. Like I didn't do homework, but I scored well on tests, that kind of thing where, um, where i had uh i was around people whose parents really cared about school and they were like um they were like oh you're gonna do these things take these tests apply to these colleges and i was like okay so let me okay so i'm gonna take these tests i'm gonna apply to these colleges like i was basically like emulating other people around me because I didn't know what to do. Yeah. And I still, I think that at this point in time, and especially like when I first moved to LA, I had this big, like, what is my life about now? Cause I'm not surviving anymore. Like when I first paid off my student loans was the first moment that I was like, what do I actually want to do? So I went and worked at like a patron was a startup at the time, not a financially wise

decision if I hadn't paid off my student loans, but like we had had some degree of like financial stability. And I was like, Oh, I'm going to take a pay cut and work at a startup that is, has a mission that I care about. You know what I mean? And, uh, and like doing YouTube is like, okay, now I'm taking these like riskier moves that are not about surviving, that are not about, you know, just, um, keeping the lights on because I was my financial safety net. I was my safety net in all ways. Cause there's not anybody in my family that I felt like I could rely on. Yeah. And so that's weird because like now I'm trying to figure out what life is about.

Like, you know, and I think, and so I do think there's like the, the kid in me that is, um, like me just like getting excited and playing my game boy all day. And then there's like the adult where it's like, I, I will solve, I will like make sure there's food on the table some way or another,

you know what I mean? Um, so yeah. Yeah. For me, apparently my ages were 40 and 7 so i'm like a very young kid at heart yeah and i was like yeah that's seven years old is when i like consider like my childhood right oh there's stuff happens around those ages but it all consolidates into seven yeah and that's like when i was playing

playstation game boy go climbing trees at the back of my house yeah i mean when there's when there's the stakes are so much lower yeah i think if that's the scenario maybe there's like close to like 10 i feel like 13 is the moment i started realizing i needed to not be that when you had to think but i don't it's weird i mean it's not weird it's unsurprising how much of it is tied directly to when your parents were the most responsible for you and when they felt the most magic right yeah not to plus why i know we're talking about parent stuff so i'll throw in um my i don't know don't know my dad but the my mom was always like the rizzler right she was doing exactly that fixing problems that's what she's very good at still to an extent but she i don't really

understand a lot of my childhood and we moved a lot and then she had a lot of different jobs and would like start a business and it would go well but then something would change and that would wrap up and i don't know if she had mental health stuff related to it but you know based on how fucked up my brain is quite likely yeah probably likely yeah but uh you know she's northern so she's from Newcastle, so no fucking university you're getting tested. No one comes out of Newcastle alive. You don't eat, you eat wheat.

And you back away from like three syllable words. There's no, she was so like a very progressive person and very open to that and cared about stuff and was very proactive about my health when I was sick as a kid but something she was very uh i think results oriented for her own self-esteem so it's like i'm going to do this and then the success or failure that will dictate what it next and if i'm a successful or not and in retrospect you know it was messing with her head as much as anything would mess with any of us. But she was a charmer.

And in front of me, she was invincible. And then as I got a little older, we didn't so much drift apart, but I just became kind of a little shit. It's just a way a lot. And context switching was tricky and stuff, but we were always relatively close. Moved to the US, saw a lot less of her, but always stayed in touch. We've always been very close. Then moved back to the UK for COVID, seven years later whatever i was 25 maybe moved back to do visa stuff

covid happened got stuck for two years during those two years she had a stroke now she has dementia that is like a little a little older and also is it grieving you know that's it's on question mark but it that feels almost like an adult switch age, not because all of a sudden I don't have support. You know, she hadn't worked, been sick for a while. She hadn't worked in a long time. I was the financial earner for all of my twenties, right. That was never a thing, but now she can't quite raise in the same way. That's like the thing that's different is fixing the problem. Me assuming that she just fixes the problem and finds the way out of it or

whatever, which was always an illusion. Like she's never doing that, but I was always like, it's, you know, it's like a David Blaine trick. He's actually like, Oh my God, he's living upside down for a hundred years. And like, no, no, but it's like very cool. But I know what you mean. Chris Angel's just on one foot, you know, to me, a kid with a dumb brain. But then I became, I was a carer for like 14 months. So I was a parent basically in a lot of ways, which is weird to say,

but it is, you know, it's constantly vigilant, constantly concerned. Oh my God, where is he? And then like, I think I maybe am cooked. I think I'm about adult. I feel too old for how old I am physically. Yeah. But there is an element of just like, I look forward to being 45

because that guy has the distance from the actual reasons I feel more grown up. Yeah. And just has the like, you know, school sucks. School's so boring. I was annoyed with it. But I'm glad it's over. And if I hadn't finished the kind of GED equivalent, I couldn't have got my visa.

So now I'm here, happy with that. If I hadn't done a bunch of other visa bullshit, wouldn't be here. If we hadn't met at a company where we all often have stressful work,'t be doing this it's it's sometimes easy to lose track of the narrative right kind of what you're expressing about like uh you're in a wood cabin being depressed yeah now that gets to be a one sentence anecdote whereas instead of four years of your life that was that would have been the autobiography this way just my shitty cabin time yeah i mean i feel kind of the same because my i'm not i wasn't very close with either of my parents and i keep i've said it before is like i've never heard my parents like

say i love you to me ever so it was kind of like the same thing where it's like i had parents but i might as well not have it's like if someone cared for me but i still learned everything myself just by watching other people is the rest of your family southern ireland um some of them are my brother lives in france but i have two brothers two sisters and everybody else lives in you said you like uh you know grew up like looking up to your brothers do you still keep in contact yeah not as well as we should um happens yeah it's i'm also just i hate keeping up with people over text and calls yeah and then there's the physical yeah um but yeah family stuff family stuff i mean it's great i mean everybody's like i think one thing oh there's a

term for this but dunning kruger okay almost you'll get it one day um the the thing where uh everyone you know if you walk down a city street everyone you pass has a life that's equally as complex as yours. Yeah. You know, there's a word for that, but. I know what you mean. But I think that's important to think about because also when comparison, right? Like, like that's why you can't, like you can't really compare yourself to someone else, though. We naturally as humans, it's probably baked somewhere in survival instincts or something it's so natural to do but you're setting yourself

up for failure because you know you're the only one who's lived your life and has your circumstance yeah and i when i was in therapy there was a lot of stuff unpacking for like childhood and like how unique that experience was but i was like oh i never really talk about it because i was like yeah everybody has stuff they go through and my therapist was like almost no one goes through this what you went through and i was like oh also this is your time to talk about your stuff you know what i mean because in in society you may not want to here we go talk about society again in the in the regular world he's in his joker arc yeah you wonder how he got these scars yeah in the emotional emotional scars you can't see them but i've got like a weird i'm fucked up yeah

um jared lito style twisted you don't lead with your trauma and the shit that you've gone through and more often than not you're gonna like downplay it in in a context with another person well yes because it's just a bummer it's a bummer yeah just bring it up out of nowhere right but in therapy like we have those we like have done those repetitions so many times that the natural thing is like so let's talk about you oh we don't need to talk about me i'm your therapist you literally have to talk about me. I'm your therapist. You literally have to talk about. How's your kids? Yeah. They have to remind you what asking,

how are you actually mean? Right. As opposed to, I don't know. Is there an equivalent of like, like where I'm from saying like. You all right? All right. Yeah.

Farmer, you all right? It's like, hey, how's it going? It's top of the morning. Shout out, plug, plug, plug, merge, merge. The quickest one syllable, like technically I'm asking you, all right, but to reply with anything more than like, hmm? Yeah. How are you?

Would be so, fuck yeah. How are you? How's it going? Oh, great. You well? Oh, so nice. How's your mat? Things aren't so good recently oh sorry they're

still walking yeah oh no never mind everything's great now i'm so awesome actually doing very well it's like you want to do that uh test or that like exercise where it's like when people ask me i'm actually gonna say how i feel from now on and then i try to flick a week and i was like this is fucking terrible i'm never doing that you guys can't forget yourself asking your therapist how they're doing in like the middle of the uh i definitely i definitely will yeah i definitely will from time to time go oh like because my therapist in the parts that aren't therapy where we're like scheduling events and things like that she'll be like oh i'm going on vacation or i need to do this travel and i'll be like oh how was your travel and she was like it was good or whatever and i'll be like, oh, I'm going on vacation or I need to do this travel. And I'll be like, oh, how was your travel? And she was like, it was good or whatever.

And I'll be like, got him. Now I'm the therapist. You have to pay me. I have a thing where I always try and make people laugh. I guess it's called being happy. But in the therapy sessions, we talked about that as well, where I'm like, I throw out zingers and she doesn't laugh, but she does it on purpose.

Yeah. Cause it makes me uncomfortable. And then I was like, ah, so that's what it's like. Whoa. Weird. Yeah.

I'm definitely feel like I'm performing sometimes for my therapist. Yeah. I'm telling a crazy story that happened to me. Yeah. Yeah. I finally got like actually honest about things where I'm not like, this isn't going to get back to anybody. I think that's a YouTuber thing as well.

Where it's like, right. Self preservation. Yeah. But it's also like, I don't know who I can trust, who I can like really be real with. Right.

Versus like, I'm just telling you like the surface level stuff. Sure. Of course. Yeah. Who's it going to get back to? Yeah. Your therapist is actually a fucking Keemstar.

We rip our mask off to reveal two Keemstars, each smaller and less pleasant than the rest. Love him. Gotta come on the show, Killer Keem. Oh, please don't. So I think it's cool that you are enjoying therapy and it's like a relatively recent development for you. Is there anything you would say to someone who's like on the fence about something like that or

even if it's not therapy taking their mental health more seriously i think just that old anecdote of like it gets worse before it gets better i think you really have to like i think you have to open up those wounds. There's, there's scars and wounds and scabs that you have that like just will never heal unless you really poke at them and figure yourself out. And I, I'm a firm believer in like breaking cycles of like stuff that your parents

did that you probably shouldn't be doing. Yeah. I think we're in this like, like cultural zeitgeist shift where like mental health and everything and like sexuality everything is all being explored so much more so i think now is the time to kind of like get into that and just figure yourself out figure out how you take because the thing that like clicked for me was that figuring out what makes you happy should never be external so it's like oh playing video games makes me happy well what if someone takes away video games right being with friends makes me happy what makes you happy should never be external so it's like oh playing video games makes me happy

well what if someone takes away video games right being with friends makes me happy what if you all your friends die right yeah it's like you have to figure out ways of like i think it's like a buddhist thing that you figure out like the inner piece of it all and like what makes you happy when you're on your own you should be able to be on your own and be happy. Yes. I mean, I think that's really valuable. Yeah. I know some people don't necessarily either financially or logistically have access to in-person resources. Yeah.

But it's straight to say, but there's a lot online. There are genuinely a... I'd say if you're willing, if you have an Audible subscription or if you're willing to shell a little bit, the book How to Think Like a Roman Emperor changed my life. Really? if you're willing, if you have an audible subscription or if you're willing to shell a little bit, um, the book, how to think like a Roman emperor, like changed my life,

which is about Marcus Aurelius as meditations. Reading the meditations is a fucking nightmare because it's all written in old shit. You have to decipher it yourself. But there's other book, which Felix actually put me onto was like, not only does it give you the history of him and who he deals with, but you can just skip those sections and get to like how to deal with anger how to deal with grief how to reconcile

with death the book itself is like structured in like appropriate english modern readable english and then it's just the meditation and you figure out that stoicism which is what it's about is what modern day therapy is based on so it's like the root of it all. It's like they had it figured out way ago. Yeah. I also could recommend, so there's something that I did before I went to therapy, started going to therapy, was I was going through a breakup and it was like really affecting me and I couldn't figure out why. And I don't know how I got recommended this book, but there's a book called Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy, which is about cognitive behavioral therapy, but, and it's by one of the founders of it, but reading that book, which you can just

like read the book and glean important like lessons and techniques from it, or they could be valuable to you. They were valuable to me. me you know i'm no health expert but you know personal experience and uh one of the most interesting things about it was like there are these like common mental traps and fallacies that we create in our minds the things we tell ourselves and seeing them like written down by a dude in the eighties made me think like, Oh, cause oftentimes when you're feeling your own pain, you're like, I'm so unique. No one can understand what this is. Why would I even ask for help? They won't know how. Yeah. And then, and then it's like, Oh yeah. Part one catastrophizing. This is where you do this and you feel like this and you say this and I go, Oh, hi Jarvis. Yeah. That's what it feels

like. And I'm like, Oh, okay., now knowing that I'm experiencing something that someone that's actually chapter six, it's it helps me feel like there's progress that can be made from here because it's no longer an undiagnosable issue. It's something that's happened before and will happen again. the the stoic stuff is all about like you have your own value systems and what you deem it's that's what like your reality is basically and when other people breach what you wouldn't do yourself that's where you start like judging people yeah it's all that like it's all cbt stuff as well oh cool yeah so it's like all the stuff that's outside of your control like it can still affect you but you have to like reconcile with that it's outside of your control right you have this control over yourself and how you're like yeah what put it down for me it was like the world is not evil the world's not out to get you and the things that happen are not bad it's how you react to them and

it's your value system being breached and upset and fucked around with that really infers like your perception of what's going on yeah there's this term in psychology uh called like the internal versus external locus of control yeah and it's like the if you have an external locus of control it's like the events in the world are happening upon you versus an in uh an internal locus of control is you're affecting the world yeah and obviously we have some balance of that but it is important to recognize the like agency that you have to affect your own mood and conditions yeah plus you're you are technically the first love of your life yeah or at least can be yeah and you're the person who has to deal with yourself more than anybody so

if you don't love yourself how can you love anything else and that's for that reason like it's why investing in yourself is so valuable because those things are going to pay dividends uh for the rest of your life so being as patient as you can with yourself because you would be for someone you care that much about yeah and i say this like i am good at it but i'm not i'm still very bad at it and i'm learning student you can have a great gym routine and be out of shape yeah it's just the you just have to go i'm a work in progress guys. Yeah. Aren't we all sick and twisted.

Live, laugh, love, live, laugh, McLaughlin. It all just boils down to that. Just be happy.

Idiot. Yeah. Um, well, thanks so much, Sean, for joining us. This is a wonderful time.

Thank you. Um, we are after this going to, uh to be doing a little bonus episode, a full probably 45-minute bonus episode on patreon.com slash sadboys. We end every episode of Sad Boys with a particular phrase. We love you. And we're sorry. Boom.

At one of the parties, we put up like a big Family Guy top that we found. And we all separately bought a bunch of Family Guy stickers. And in neither case was Cleveland included anyway. Why wasn't he there? It almost feels like he was removed. Because there's a bunch of absent space. Right. Joe is there.

Quagmire is there. Lois was mooning. And taking up a surprising amount of the frame doing so. A bunch of characters I don't remember. But not like the one black guy.