Sad Boyz - The Cody Ko Situation

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

CW/TW: Sexual Assault Help is available. Visit https://online.rainn.org to chat. Revenue from this video will be donated to RAINN. To make a donation Watch D'Angelo Wallace's video Watch Amanda Todhunter's video Recorded July 18, 2024.

Hey everybody, this is a kind of a weird intro for our show because we're doing we're going to do a thing where we talk about the Cody Coe allegations and then separate that so that people can't just like have a dramatic tone shift. If we talk about like some of the other topics that we normally talk about for our podcast. So this episode will be released in two parts. Um, but up top wanted to give a trigger warning because we're going to be discussing sexual assault. Um,

and, uh, I understand that could be very, or I know that can be very triggering for victims. There's not necessarily overly explicit details, but it is a description of an experience that if you're still really curious, you can familiarize yourself elsewhere

in case you want something more formal. D'Angelo Wallace recently did a video, which is kind of the catalyst for a lot of people. Yeah, so yeah, D'Angelo Wallace made a video about critical allegations, as well as a creator named Amanda Todd Hunter, who I was only made, I've only been familiar with through this video, but she's a large, she has a bunch of other videos. To jump off just a summary of the allegations in D'Angelo's video, Cody Coe, a lot of you were familiar with him because we exist in

this same commentary genre, more or less. And Tana Mongeau, who some of you may be familiar with, is also a large creator in her own right today. But going back in time, when Tana was 17 and Cody was 25, allegedly Cody hooked up with Tana knowing that she was a minor, which is a crime. And it's insane to have any kind of discourse about that. Absolutely. It's self-report. It's disgusting. And, you know, I put up a statement on Twitter as soon as I saw D'Angelo's video. D'Angelo's video was the first time that I saw many of these details. It's my understanding that there had been rumors about this in the ether for a long time, but it was not something I was privy to until it was laid out in D'Angelo's video, especially in whole with like clips and

corroborating stories and stuff, specifically from Gabby Hanna. Cody is not named in Gabby Hanna's story, but it's heavily implied. So again, these things are hard to talk about because they are allegations and we want to make sure that we're not at risk for any sort of legal liability. But what is most important is that I want to say that we believe victims

and that's something that we care very passionately about. And I believe Tana and I believe the impact that it has had on Tana in the multiple times she's discussed this, both in live shows and on her podcast. And I don't want to blow that under the rug, as I've seen many people do because of Tana's reputation online. Just because someone had certain actions or is unpopular for certain reasons in the past does not mean they should not be believed when they come forward about their sexual assault and the way that that trauma has uh affected them there's never a good reason to question the veracity of someone over anything it's it's also very telling when people like make a i feel like

have a air quotes debate about the age of consent in this conversation is so clearly motivated by wanting to mitigate the experience of someone it's the same thing as oh she shouldn't have worn that oh she was living life in the fast lane oh you know why is this the burden of the person a that is underage b that is a victim there is no like cody's not victimized in this there is there is nothing for to be questioned there and you know frankly the whole pitch that i'm seeing circle that i see circle so much is that tanner is as like persona non grata or like or like an unreliable trustworthy source or something like that yeah you know let's be really fucking candid like

because of what yeah he's like yeah you don't like her vibe on something or she did some she said some bad stuff when she was younger like what it like just doesn't matter it doesn't matter like what her track record is what matters is that she is a victim and she feels victimized and she feels traumatized by these alleged actions and we should listen to her story. And when we put down Tana's story where we discredit her, that makes millions, thousands of people who are experiencing similar things feel like they're less emboldened to come out, feel like it's already so difficult for someone to jump through all of these hoops to speak to their experience that when a public figure with such stature as Tana comes out and people don't believe her, then why would they believe someone else? Right. So especially when there's such a large gap, even between Tana's platform of influence of Tana, what avenues do they have to share these accusations

outside of just tweeting it to potentially no one? Yeah. And then being questioned even more because they'll just say, well, you're just somebody on Twitter, what do you know? It matters not just in the... The power dynamic and influence level doesn't just matter because it can influence the power that you have over the person involved.

It maybe makes you think you're insulated from consequences. And that is what influence and power does. This is not a Cody is cooked if he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. No. No, he absolutely needs to respond. It's an imperative for him to respond. And not only are the allegations discussing, but it's discussing that. It's an imperative for him to respond. And not only are the allegations discussing, but it's discussing that it's taken him this long to address it.

It's not to say like, well, somebody can get false accusations and it can ruin their life. This is Cody Co. He can swipe it away. He just has the power to do that. Well, D'Angelo makes a great point. Why would he choose the line of action that only makes sense if he has done the actions? Again, they are still allegations. And the reason that we have to say that is just for legal, just making sure that we're not legally liable. Essentially, what I'm trying to say is his continued silence currently is working, right? Like in a lot of the energy that people have that they want to take on Cody, they are now reaching out to anyone who's ever associated with Cody. I've been getting lots of DMS. I totally understand where they're coming

from, but I also noticed that a lot of female or femme presenting creators, non-binary creators are also, uh, uh, being reached out to about the situation. And that kind of betrays this, you know, narrative that, narrative that D'Angelo speaks about a little bit in his video, uh, of this like boys club that is like protecting Cody with his silence. Um, I totally understand the perception. I think there's a perception of the commentary community as one like unified community when in reality it's a very large genre on YouTube with a number of clicks. I do not know Cody Ko. I have not worked with him. I have one time had exchanged a few words with him. And one time we were going to get coffee in 2019.

And then the pandemic happened and that didn't happen. So it's like I have very, very little actual physical connection to this man. But online, algorithmically, we are very connected. And so I think it's important for people to see someone in my position, uh, uh, be very clear about where I stand on this, um, and be very clear on like my support for victims. And so I understand like where, uh, you know, where that energy is coming from. What I want to make sure we don't lose the plot on is that we are centering victims here and we're not just like out for blood for any creator who doesn't have the right take, especially when that starts to target women and non-binary creators. Who may well have similar experiences that they're under no obligation to articulate.

Yeah, you know, I have seen some pressure in cases being like, well, two people who have previously said like their own experience in trauma, hey, you need to come out and talk about this because something like that happened to you. And that somehow makes you obliged to fight that fight as opposed to just... Anyway, we're certainly not paying

defense. It's very relieving to have a source that we know, someone we do know and do trust is D'Angelo. And he's very good at this and, as I say, articulates it well. Like, D'Angelo's been on this podcast before.

D'Angelo and I just shared a stage at VidCon very, very recently. And I definitely think you should check out D' to ever be perceived as like running defense for, for Cody. Also, but, but there is this like YouTube kind of game that, that can obscure some of these incentives. So, uh, for me, uh, I felt very conflicted about making a video about it where Cody's in the title and the thumbnail, because that is a profitable, that's going to get a lot of views, a lot of clicks. It's going to grow my brand. And in the cynical view, it feels exploitative to, uh, to, to a degree, right? I made a statement on Twitter. I got a lot of views. I got a lot of things. I don't profit from

that. Uh, and people still like know where I stand and it's like going to sit up there. Um, so for this video, uh, uh, we are going to donate all of the proceeds from this video to rain, um, which deals a lot with, uh, uh, and sexual assault victims. Um, because, but I can't deny the fact that there is still going to be some downstream benefits to, to talking about this on, on the platform. And we are trying to weigh, uh, we are trying to weigh that with the responsibility to our audience, let them be clear where we stand, especially because a lot of our content centers around punching at misogyny or punching at, you know, these, these, this content that tends to paint women in a bad light. And so, uh, we would never want to be seen as like only doing that performatively. Um, you know, it's like, I know my truth as an individual, but I understand that the perception online is going to matter to our audience. And so we would never want to give someone a reason to think that. Even for like a small portion of it, it's,

I'm glad we get to articulate it to people who are of it's it's i'm glad we get to articulate it to people who are actively concerned about it i'm glad we get to articulate it to people who may be completely unfamiliar with the situation so that they get some well a we're pushing towards d'angelo's information and other like um well-sourced reliable information that people should check out but also that we get the opportunity to clarify for people who won't ask but may be questioning it and if they have question marks about well what what are jordan and jarvis what where would they stand on that yeah they'd probably support but they don't say anything out loud i don't know for sure i think we just wanted to make sure that we do say something out loud so there is absolutely no question mark and people who may feel anxious

about whether or not they're allowed to validate somebody's experiences absolutely you are it's also important that the other person involved has a platform to express these things and it's also unique that the other person involved is largely just drew this like kind of largely uh no denying it misogyny driven hate towards tana mojo yeah it's been active for her entire life and career online that is like being used as shielding for a completely unrelated topic. Right. To the point where I know I've already said it,

but I really want to lean into pointing that out because what is your incentive for pointing out that Tanner has done X or Y thing that's objectionable? Why, why point to that now, especially something worth considering if you are a person that in other circumstances does follow the edict of believe uh victims why is this situation different right is it just vibes based if so that's really something you need to review last night in particular i

was getting like very frustrated because i i feel like so much of the discourse online i was seeing was swarmed by people arguing with the virtue of tana mojo and as though that should have any relation to it at all which it just doesn't it's i think it's it's disingenuous to be the nice. That's the nicest way to put it. And I think it is cruel. That is essentially what it is. It's fun to be mean online. And maybe by being mean and cruel online,

you can also kind of lean into your bias and you don't have to stop watching that cringe. That's like, I do think part of it. Ultimately, I think we have to stop watching that's cringe that's like i do think part of it ultimately i think we have to you know keep the pressure on cody to respond because he owes everyone including tana a response and an apology a creator he cody's kind of notoriously uh distanced from even just youtube stuff in general he's like not a con attendee kind of guy. He's not like a socializing kind of guy. He has the money to never work again. You know, he has the money to isolate himself.

Has chosen to. And the fact that he's saying nothing, like he said, and like D'Angelo said, if you are a sociopath, he's exactly the right move. If you only, if you don't care about human beings and their experience, Cody does not really professionally take PR damage from this. It feels like a lot of people are talking about it,

but relative to the views he will get by going on ice for six months and then just coming back and not acknowledging it, it effectively doesn't ding him at all. Well, that's the fear. months and then just coming back and not acknowledging it yeah it just effectively doesn't ding well that's the fear the fear is that he just kind of gets off unscathed and then what does that what message does that send to victims what message does that send uh when someone is uh like trying to communicate something in a way that they were wronged and then uh we've seen this tons like just men in power getting to continue and continue and continue abusing that power uh with with little to no um

consequence and i mean also with the tanner thing i saw some annoying um this is not really a minor part of it but some people being like well the way she's presenting it she's like so jovial she's like laughing she's joking about it or whatever i'm like okay well first of all she has had time to process this and have her own emotional development through it right and just because she's articulating it in a confident way but she's a creative professional like that that's a skill that you've developed is the ability to like articulate it confidently say this clearly uh that doesn't change anything about it it doesn't matter what accent you say it in doesn't matter what outfit you're wearing the statement is the statement and it's like why when she's saying her experience does it have to be this mournful funeral tone way of saying it?

I'm almost trying to be like careful about that. I don't want to be, I don't want to treat Tanner as though she has like none of her own agency and is not the lead. She should absolutely be the lead of all of this. And this is much more like, I want to, I want to be a, I know you feel the same. We want to be support pillars.

Like we want to vote yes on this bill even though we are not in the Senate kind of thing. It is just agreed pressure on Cody consistent. I think practically the only thing we can do is like not let it simmer away. I think it's something. Yeah. Yeah. And if he ever responds, like people should,

you know, be very critical of that response. It's going to be not long, but a little while before this episode comes out and it's totally possible. Something does come out, but yeah, we're recording this on Thursday, July 18th. Even if it does, that does does that kind of changes nothing about the situation so far

because it's still something he consciously tried to avoid well it's continuing avoiding but let's say he does say something let's say he even makes a statement that's like very self-effacing and very self-critical and is the air quotes best statement that he could make. The silence so far is already a transgression, just as the initial assault was. It's already something just so objectively wrong and objectively deliberate that that's not forgivable. Not in a people can't change, people can't grow, whatever. Just huge shitty thing to do already.

Yeah. If you are in a hit and run, you're still culpable for the run, always. Even if you come back five hours later, you did the hit and run. Yeah. And I just think moving forward, I want to make sure that a lot of this energy stays on Cody

again I've seen just lots of female creators lots of non-binary creators taking slack, myself included but sure it makes a lot more sense for it to come to me because despite the fact that D'Angelo is not referring to us as somebody who've like talked about Dr. Disrespect and we're avoiding Cody, it's like, we didn't talk about the Dr. Disrespect thing, but like, it's

still, to me makes way more sense for me to be a member of this like hypothetical boys club than some of these, uh, uh, other creators who do not identify as a man. And so we're in LA and that's, and I also understand that like, no, like the, the, that whatever we say is not going to be sufficient for some people. They're like entirely entitled to, to their perspective and opinion. I just want to do what like sits right with my spirit. And also, you know, like discussing this with the people in my life and other creators, just making sure that we are doing right by them to the best of our ability and doing right by victims to the best of our ability. And no one we're close to is like, you know,

has had played any degree of defense or has had like a dissenting opinion when we talk to people about it, creators or not, just, you know know nobody we're close to i would like to think would even hold that position and if they did it would be difficult to i would not want to maintain that connection it's just so obviously um unethical to me uh typically our content is a lot more lighthearted than this and that's why we've kind of like separated this also just due to the tonality of it. We don't want to. And we want to financially benefit from it. And that as well.

So that's something that we want to keep an eye on and be wary of. But because it does, even if I don't personally feel like Cody Co is in my community as a person. I understand why, why viewers and why members of our audience would feel otherwise. And so that's, you know, I want to speak to that. And it's an opportunity to elevate the voices of victims, even though, you know, it's like Tana is a victim with a platform, but because there are so many people, like what we do, what we tend to do is to like analyze content. We're looking at content. We're looking at the responses to content. We're trying to like sort of poke fun at it and like kind of speak to like kind of what our view of the world is and why it may differ from said content. In this instance,

we are trying to apply that criticism to the dissenters and those who are critical of Tana's sharing their story simply because of their track record. Like at the end of the day, this is a human being who experienced traumatic actions on behalf of someone who we are associated with, even though we have not worked with them. Right. And I just keep saying that because there is like a misperception of like who, who is in our friend group. And it's unavoidable that, you know, like Cody, we could just say nothing. It's not's not gonna end our lives it's not gonna

get it it's going to be emotionally taxing but if we didn't care there's not some grand like consequence we would get from not saying yeah but also we don't expect a pat on the back like i expected you know criticized just like anyone else this is like a we want to say something because we want to say something yeah and want to say something and also not benefit financially, but also not feel as though we're like, um, part of the reason we're splitting it up is that tonally, you know, we've had episodes where we talk about really heavy shit and then we have a laugh and then we watch something stupid and then we talk about something heavy again.

But this is not our heavy experience. This is. And yeah, it's not, it's not a heavy experience from our lives. And it's also something that a lot of people who are not familiar with our show may come into. And we don't want to give them the sort of tonal whiplash of having us talk about something goofy right after this. So I think that's where we're going to end it for now.

We continue to urge people to pressure Cody for a response. I think it's very cowardly and loser behavior to have not responded up to this point. But what do you expect given the alleged crimes? With no real, I cannot think of a reason to do that that is not a self-report and admission of lack of care at the very least. Yeah, but for legal reasons, they're allegations. But still, we believe Tana. We think you should as well. We also, you know, take, want you, you know,

in your life to take every opportunity to listen to victims, even if you don't like them, their stories are valid and deserve to be heard. And think about the good that that can do for emboldening and giving agency to, to victims, uh, uh, everywhere just by creating more or pushing for a culture where it is more, um, accepting for them to come out with their stories. Uh, as we've seen with like the Me Too movement and things over the past decade that there is a suppression happening of victims voices uh and and it is disproportionately affecting women and it can't you cannot present an exception to the rule yeah because it's disproportionately affecting women and every marginalized group um and and to even deny a single experience especially to a public figure to question that

ruins the chance for 5 000 non-public figures to say anything it is the huge damage yeah for there to be a movement of people like finding camaraderie in poking holes in in tana's story or whatever that's not to say that we don't believe in like the, uh, due process of law or that we don't believe in innocent until proven guilty. It's, it's, cause that's usually the, that's like usually the argument that people are making, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. Uh, like for my statement, for example, uh, I said that, you know, I've never worked with Cody. I will not ever work with Cody. I think the allegations are disgusting. And then there were people who were like, what about innocent until proven guilty?

And it's like, well, that's for the fucking court of law. And I am allowed to decide when I hear a victim's story that I'm not going to associate with someone. And also their silence has spoken volumes. With that, I think that's where we're going to part on this subject for now. But it's something that we're going to be paying close attention to. And we encourage you to do the same. We encourage you to push, you know, Cody for a response.

That does not mean harassing unrelated people in his life. You know, it's like we have to be very careful um with uh our platforms and and and we don't want to push for harassment of uh unrelated people and especially groups like uh marginalized groups as you mentioned like that is i get the desire to want to displace this frustration and have get and i'm not holding grudges if people want to displace frustration towards me. Like, that's fine, you know? Just the same as if you message somebody about any major world event, any tragedy, et cetera, don't start at argument because it puts people in a position where you can't inform them, you can't reply safely, especially if it's a marginalized group, women, non-binary people who may have experienced

similar experiences or at the very least fear experiencing similar experiences and someone to just receive a message that is aggressive terse and includes the term sexual assault is that's like just like a car backfiring for someone that with like p of gunfire. I've just seen like female, like creator friends of mine being policed for like liking posts involving him in the past when, you know, there, these things weren't known. Following people associated with him.

And I just don't think that's fair, you know, because like. Waste of time at the very least. Like we all are responding to this information as we're learning it into the best of my ability. I do not know anyone who has been purposely hiding information with the express goal of protecting, uh, Cody, but if you need a place to, uh, put, push that, uh, energy, um, then feel free to send it my way. But I'd prefer not at least keep it to the

guys, you know. If somebody were to push back, if we were to get challenged on this, we're fine. Like that quality of life is fine. We're not at threat by a harassment campaign. You, by acknowledging and tolerating the harassment of a marginalized creator you are setting a standard that that's an okay thing to do and the even worse people than you will feel comfortable doing yeah i was just gonna say like by and large the you know uh non-male creators with platforms that i know are the ones that receive the most harassment just in general. And it is not a issue that I tend to deal with in my day-to-day life. And that is a privilege that I have as a man online because people react very differently

to a man saying something online than a woman saying something online. And that is just a thing. And it is, it is our internalized societal misogyny that just exists as like a low hum over a cloud over our community, our, you know, and so. Which is something Cody's reaction reinforces.

Exactly. It doesn't matter because I'm Cody. I don't have to say anything. Yeah. And it's like, and he probably will not just disappear. He probably will come back. Who knows if he'll address it. But, um, you know, I, I know where I stand and I know where my, you know, close my circle, you know, stands on this. We're just going to keep doing our best to try to act in accordance with our morals. Yeah, and these are, to be clear, these are our morals. Yeah, and I'm like, hey.

No doubt, no reason to doubt. Pressure on Cody to make a statement even if he wants to challenge it, say something because the cowardly approach is the one that benefits him the most and benefits the worst reactionaries. And Hey, I, uh, you know, if you listen to all of this, I appreciate you, uh, being patient with our candor. You know, we felt like it would be more appropriate to have a discussion rather than just like a super PR response or anything like that. So I'm sure that we didn't say things perfect, but hopefully you can take the spirit of this discussion. And if something didn't sit right with you, then that's okay. And we'll do our best to make amends. Again, there will be a link to donate to RAINN

if that's something that you want to do, but we will also be donating all proceeds from this video to that organization. But with that, we're going to wrap this up and there will be just a normal episode that follows us maybe in a few days. We're going to let it breathe for a bit. So to our normal audience, I hope you understand why that is.

And yeah, thanks for listening. Much love guys. Bye. Bye.