Sad Boyz - The Internet’s Problem with JoJo Siwa

Episode Date: July 27, 2024

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Welcome to Sad Boys, a podcast about feelings and other things also. I'm Jarvis. I'm Jordan. You took on a set of dark energy. And other things also. And other things also. It's all bad and scary. Do you ever feel scary? Scary? Yeah, do you think? Yeah.

Because we're like, you know, we're tall guys. Yeah, and we always get that we're taller than people expected us to be. Which is, if you watch this show very weird because my limb proportions to heart would be insane right i've got like the torso the size of a bowling ball and then like three tree trunks coming off my body i do feel scary if ever i am i just have to be aware of my physical stature because um if i'm approaching him if i'm approaching someone or if i'm standing i just feel like uh especially around smaller people specifically like uh women i don't want to appear as a threat yeah so i try to do

lots of things to like diminish my stature or at least be overcompensating for that late in the day walking down the same sidewalk being a slightly faster walker than the person that's in front of me and they're either femme presenting or in a way where i feel like they might be intimidated i've heard different feedback on what people prefer some are i sort of always assumed crossing the street is the wisest way because there's i mean what's the worst that can happen you know basically uh but i don't know some people i've spoken to a couple of people who find that unnerving for whatever reason. I'm not sure I follow, but I'll respect their perspective. And then other people that would prefer you speed up and go around.

Interesting. Maybe, but I feel like without saying something out loud. There's like that Mulaney bit where it's like he accidentally was chasing a woman. Someone in here. Yeah, because it's like he thought he was missing the train, so he started running after the person. I just don't think I can, yeah, I don't know how I would comfortably evade

without either crossing the entire street, which I'm fine to do, that seems the wisest, or, again, I've had some friends say like, well, if you just say like, oh, excuse me, or like, if I said excuse me to any stranger, I feel as though I'm suggesting they talk to me. I'm like trying to slow them down and cost them, right? Anastasia, now you, again, are off screen by request.

Do you want to weigh in on this? Yeah. Your request, not our request, to be clear. We asked you. We said, hey, can you please get off? The camera hates you. You're off screen at gunpoint. I do have thoughts on this, and my thoughts are essentially that you cannot do anything.

I will always be scared. Okay. There's nothing that you can do that's the right answer for everyone. You know what I mean? What about like giggling? Because then I'm cute. You pick up the phone and you go um oh my god i can't wait to get back to the bunny factory what is it chocolate day it's chocolate day at the bunny

factory and um and we're having a little celebration to celebrate how i am actually a bunny oh it's support for all my avian bones that would be easy to break and fight yeah oh and i'm so weak what's that doc i'm brittle i have glass skin and i have glass skin and bones in avian bones and if i trip so much as trip i'll burst into flames a wizard's curse i definitely do that like if i'm uh alone around uh uh a woman i don't know um i like to change the way i like hold myself or talk yeah to make sure to like i don't know kind of virtue signal that i'm a safe person you know what i mean yeah yeah not that that necessarily means i'm of course of course but you the thing is it's all about perception and you don't and understandably so there's going to be a lot of people who just like

see a man uh as an imposing figure who is scary and i totally understand that i think a little bit of performance is a necessary sacrifice for the net positive or something oh yeah if i'm talking to an old white lady i like turn into the most prim and proper young man you've ever seen because i'm like i don't want the opposite. You know what I mean? I don't want to be seen. Like there's a thing in my brain that goes, oh, I need to show them I'm not one of those thugs they've heard about on CNN. I've seen you bow and kiss the ring of a cop.

My lord, my lead. No, I have a completely different voice for cops. I go, hello, officer. I am a self-driving vehicle. No need to acknowledge me. This is the physical form known as Jarvis. You are a pig. No, shoot.

You are an oink oink. Just kidding. My programming. My programming is flawed. I've been hacked. I've been hacked. Turn off your body cam. I i'm gonna try something real quick just kidding psych no psych but um but i do do the oh golly gee willikers officer my apologies

i was just here driving over from connecticut where i'm from i told that story about how uh my uber driver got pulled over yeah you were like in a suit yeah i was. Yeah, you were going to an event or something, and you were in a suit? Yeah, I was in a suit. I was going to an event, and I was in the back seat, and you'd think I did a crime. Was it going back from the auction, the last one? No, actually, it was a Cutie Cinderella event. It was like an event that was raising money for animal charities. Oh, it was a gala, right?

It was a gala, yeah. And you have to find Jarvis that was the big test yeah it's like a where's waldo but for me yeah the uber driver had two tinted the windows were too tinted and they the officers were very upset at him and then he was very standoffish because i think when you're like a white dude and you've like never had a problem with the cops you're gonna be like ah he's fucking guys but i'm like to your face oh i'm fake as fuck dude i'm gonna completely transform myself that's because you are oh oh my dearest apologies lois i'm a baby you can't i'm oh uh what is that down officer it's a baby do What does Stewie say? He says, Help. Blast! Well, you were also a little too tempted. You guys were drift?

I was a little too tempted, yeah, melanin-wise. Yeah, sometimes it's easy to feel scary, I feel like. Absolutely. Not in a like, because I'm a big scary manly man, more in the sense that I, that in real life doesn't seem to reflect the threat level of people.

But I do, you know, it's like while I totally understand, when someone crosses a street to avoid me, I do feel like I failed. Oh, like I'm like, oh no. Madam, stop. I felt really bad one time because I had my headphones in, didn't hear someone walking up behind me. And it was a man and he was bigger than me. And he was coming around me to pass me. And I, when I noticed him,

I turned and I went, Oh, you know, and I scared him and he goes, Oh my God, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And I go, no, no, no, I'm sorry. I speak really easily. And I definitely like had people come up to me or come up on me. Like I had my headphones in and I was like walking in like one of the outdoor malls in LA and someone came and tapped me from behind, which if I can't see you coming, don't tap me. Especially in a mall. And I will talk to you. I'll say hi, I'll take a photo. But if, if, if I'm listening, I'm, you know, it's brat summer.

I'm like listening to,'m listening to Apple or something. Or I'm listening to Girl So Confusing. Joe Rogan. Again, I'm hip. Yeah, we're young as hell. Fortnite, we mentioned it. Fortnite, we mentioned it. Victory Royale, Skippy, Ohio.

So I'm listening, vibing out. And then someone taps me and I go, and then i think i scared them but i'm like you gotta know i i love my senses are a little bit impaired because i'm listening to music i'm walking i'm playing pokemon go i think was another thing that was happening peripheral is compromised i'm now thinking about like um my the systems in my brain they're like if i if i trip like because that happens a lot where i'm like walking and i'm like playing pokemon go and there's a lot of uneven sidewalks in la i'll have a little bit of a you know and i always catch myself but but my brain goes oh tripping um tripping subroutine activated uh uh grasp phone tighter so that it doesn't slip out of your hand um forward foot foot forward

stature upright lift legs to give clearance to descend five double uh descend and then i and then i catch myself and then i just keep i keep walking you're like when they shove those boston dynamics robots yeah exactly exactly that's what it's like it's when they tap me i like accidentally went into like a glitched version of that where I'm like clenched my phone and I go, hello. Who are you? Unknown protocol required. Unlocking a part of your brain only meant for combat.

Yeah. But you know, I also get it, but I'm easily spooked as well. So I get why anyone would be easily spooked. Real quick before we get too deep into the show, just wanted to throw this out there for anyone who's curious. There's been no one who's been reaching out to us about this, but just wanted to go ahead and say, especially because we've been recording a lot of sad boys. Cause we have some travel coming up and we might not be available to like

have a hot take on every current moment. Right. Yeah. But as this is coming out, there's been news about Ava Chris Tyson and their associations with minors, cut and dry, disgusting. And there's also been resurfaced podcast clip

of Mr. Beast saying disgusting things about a bad baby, right? Yeah, inappropriate at best, scary at worst. Who's 14 at the time. Yeah, which I guess around the initial Dr. Phil notoriety, whatever you want to call it. And Mr. Beast was 19, so an age enough to know that that's inappropriate so again we're not running defense for any of these people regardless of their stature or their identity no people no matter

who they are can do bad things and that is what's happening here so I just want there to not be any doubt and this is very fresh at time of recording. So I'm sure even by the time we upload, there may or may not be some development or at least the zeitgeist will pick it up a little bit

and maybe something else is revealed. But though also, I don't know, we can just not get this out because I don't know how much I want to introduce it as a topic.

But I do want to acknowledge also that there is a very bad faith conversation that we... Conflating any of Ava's actions with trans people? Yeah, playing this narrative, this fake narrative by bad actors that somehow this is reflective of the trans community. And not that because Mr. Beast said this thing that every person that does personality driven game show type content. You should never conflate one person's actions from a group with the group itself. It's okay to critique the actions of the person, but not attach it elsewhere. If one of us does tax fraud, it doesn't mean anyone roughly our color is also going to do tax fraud. I think that people are uncomfortable with, you know, criticizing certain people whose identities they, you know, are afraid of offending or something like that.

And that's just not a place that I feel like I'm coming from. I can cut and dry say, with regard to the Cody Co stuff, did not respond as of the recording of this, which is July 24th. July 24th, 2024, has not responded, but has gone and done a DJ set at the Encore Day Club in Vegas, among other things he came out and performed a remix of Sorry by Justin Bieber. Is it too late now to say sorry? Which is just I don't have to go into why it's stupid bad and dumb. But for a guy that appears like the reason to not make a statement if because it it's not having compassion not caring combined with like optics right it yeah why is this thing if you don't care about people for him if he just wants to do self-preservation is to not say anything arguably but if you're that concerned with optics this is a huge including that song is an enormous slip up that how no one how can you

not you know normally i'm of the do not attribute to malice, what can be attributed to stupidity. But this just feels like malice and stupidity to me. Yeah, the best case scenario, just stupidity. And there is a willfulness to ignorance when you don't think about things in general. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, in general, our show, it's a pop culture show. It's a show about mental health. It's a show that centers around our experiences with pop culture and mental health. We're not always going to be

ready with a statement or an opinion about when an influencer in the space behaves badly. In this particular instance, we just wanted to say this piece, but again, we are not the people to go to for that. It's not our expertise. It's not something that we're skilled at this piece, but again, we are not the people to go to for that. It's not our expertise. It's not something that we're skilled at. And, you know, obviously we want you to, you know, look to other places for that, but also use this as an opportunity to divest yourself from influencers a little bit. As of the recording of this, the Cody Co episode that we did has raised around $5,000 for rain in terms of ad revenue that's generated. And we'll be posting that donation receipt to our community tab and probably Twitter or something.

But one of the things and the reasons that we didn't initially want to talk about it was because of how many views and how beneficial to to our careers it would be to like lean into that drama. And that's part of the reason that we don't. Another thing is we've had a lot of people praising us. And that also doesn't sit right with me. I get it and I appreciate the kind words and messages we've received about it. But that's also not why we do it. And it's, I feel very uncomfortable being held up as some sort of something more than what I am, which is just like a guy.

Yeah. And I also don't like the implication that other people, that we're like an exception to a bad rule. Yeah, one of the good ones is like we will inevitably slip up. We will make mistakes. And it always worries me a little bit when I see people essentially rebounding from their air quotes comfort creator or bias or whatever. Like I stand Cody Coe and they let me down, but then I saw this thing. And what we're saying is to challenge your own desires to connect yourself parasocially to these creators, you know including ourselves and keep us at a healthy distance. Because I think

that makes for a healthy relationship between a creator and viewer. It's not to say that you can't be a fan. Like I'm a fan of tons of stuff and we talk about that kind of thing constantly. But please don't ascribe your identity to us or anything like that. Cause we're just, we're just people at the end of the day. And I will reemphasize something we said in the Cody Co video that if nothing else, please, no matter who you are or what perspective you're holding, do not reach out to trans creators believing that they have some obligation to talk about the Ava Chris scenario. They do not. And you may also be, by pressuring them to make statements, you might be robbing them of the opportunity to cook on it and think and process you might also be triggering their own fears traumas previous experiences for

the benefit of the question mark question mark so yeah be cautious there yeah like we don't want members of the trans community or any marginalized community to have to be like a model representative of a group. I just don't think that ends well. And, uh, and that goes for us, you know, it's like just speaking specifically on like being to like black creators in the space and in a predominantly white space, I don't want to be held up as like some, you know, one of the good ones type thing. And that it just like puts a lot of undue pressure. And I'm only speaking about my experience because that's like kind of the place that I'm coming from. But yeah, I mean, like keep a healthy distance. Like we, in the same breath, like benefit from parasocial relationships. We literally, and this is not a

plug, we like just launched merch and we're going to be selling that and talking about relationships. We literally, and this is not a plug, we like just launched merch and we're going to be selling that and talking about that. And we're going to be talking about our goofy stuff that we talk about later in this episode. And we can't always dedicate a like extremely serious episode to everything that happens because that's just not, it's not what we do. And it's personally, it's like not good for my mental health. I've had to check, check out from, you know, the internet this, these past couple of weeks and we don't i mean even that's a really good point because i i'll be lying if i didn't have like a sudden because we just got this first time i've worn these sweatpants and i did have this sudden self-consciousness of oh god we're

talking about this and i'm wearing the merch yeah yeah it really the cody coat one we were more conscientious about because we recorded it as a separate thing. But then we started this episode right before this, we saw the Mr. Beast clip and we thought, probably worth acknowledging this in some way. We started the episode, we actually get into it. And I'm like, do I go and change for this official statement? That feels disingenuous. Yeah, it feels disingenuous.

So it's like, hey, hopefully you can meet us where we are and have a quick chat about this. But we will, you know, sort of move forward from this into a regular episode. But yeah, that's that's in general all I wanted to say about it. We have, you know, no regrets about anything that we've said or put on the record or talked about with regard to these issues. And we continue to uh speak to and act out our values but and highlight things when they change i think you know there's certainly a part of us that would want to just be like i really don't acknowledge cody engagement but then when he does bizarre shit like going through with that dj set it is something to call him out on and something that we do and would and have talked about off the show. It is something that we find interesting, not in a fun way, but in a... But yeah, it's like if the doctor disrespect thing is your litmus test, it's like that's also not something that we talked about

because we didn't have... Because our beat is comedic commentary on content and there wasn't something to be commentated on. It's just like a gross abuse of power. So, but I appreciate overwhelmingly the response was positive to the Cody statement stuff. So even calling it statement feels a little while,

you know, Cody video stuff, but at the same time, please don't take that video or any episode of sad boys as a reason to slot us into the empty bias space cody co used to occupy sure yeah yeah it's like we're not looking to be like your backup uh fave you know uh we're just doing our thing uh with our friends and we're trying our best to be the best people that we can be and to live up to everything we talk about. And, but also this is an entertainment show about goofing and gaffing and talking about

our feelings. And that's what we'll continue to do. So with that, we're going to do a hard cut and we're going to jump into something extremely goofy. So I'm giving you like 10 seconds. The goof is. And then like, there's going to be just like the wildest possible thing on the other end of this 10 seconds. There's a let's go look out clock that's happening

right now there's like a ghibli toilet movie um real thing turns out real thing turns out michael bay linked what in like a production role yeah that rocks no one has more live action mech experience in a way in a way and he uses the toilet i bet i would like guillermo del toro i bet guillermo del toro would freaking rock the shit crush all the practical yeah i was gonna say like denny make an extremely dour gray version of skibbity toilet skibbity this is from variety skibbity toilet film and tv franchise in the works from Michael Bay, Adam Goodman. I wish it were a very serious, almost Terminator style, post-apocalyptic hellscape kind of film. Like the first Terminator where it is legitimately miserable.

Yeah. The Skivity toilet guy is like the G-Man from Half-Life. Wake up and watch my movie. How do we, like, are they going to be able to oh literally the character yeah you're right yeah well there's the g-man one and then there's also just that's just like a half-life citizen model oh citizen model but g-man's also a big part of it and it's all sfm stuff yeah source filmmaker and and i'm wondering like how do you do that licensing stuff would this be the first time that like half-life media is committed to like a traditional film or TV?

Yeah, it's funny that this is the most activity for the Half-Life franchise in 18 years. Yeah, is this a licensing situation? Is this a, they need to completely move away from all of the derivative IP? I don't know. Is this Half-Life 3? Does this happen?

Does this even get made? I don't know, but. Yeah, this does actually tickle kind of on the thing we. I don't know. Is this Half-Life 3? Does this happen? Does this even get made? I don't know. Yeah, this does actually tickle kind of on the thing we said about Hawk 2 ago, where it's like, okay, everyone has these conversations after something happens. Everyone sees the scale of something. And the first thing Hollywood people do

is go like, adaptation? Is that what we want? Yeah, also, can we do a quick check-in on Hawk 2 ago? Can we go to Google Trends and then just explore? All right. So this is the past day. So let's go to past 90 days. Very little up until it happened.

So we are currently experiencing a return to normalcy for Hawk Tua in terms of interest. Understandably peaking in West Virginia. I just want to make sure that Haley the Hawk Tua girl is okay. Is she thriving? I want her to be thriving. Do we have any updates? Does she have social media yet? What is really the Hawk Tua update?

I feel like I saw an update. I saw her singing a parody song with someone. I hope the spirit of our last like Hawk Tua situation was to just make sure that she's good and not being taken advantage of by the machine. Yeah, as long as her material life is good. So this, I saw this song and that's her in it. Alabama, but she had to drop out to pay the bills and take care of my grandma. minute. means being selfless. Hot tua means you care. Hot tua is another word for hard work like pulling up your sleeves

and tying back your hair. Hot tua means love and affection. Hot tua means... Wait our session, Grandma. Stop asking so many questions. That's cute. So it looks like she does have a Twitter. Hey! Hayley! Oh, okay. Hayley, her cover photo is her doing hot tua. She's been a Twitter. Hey. What is that? Oh, okay.

Hayley, her cover photo is her doing. Couture. She's been living lately. Is that Jake? Oh, yeah. This is what I saw when, yeah. She met up with Jake Paul. Is this week fight week? He's doing it?

No, he just did a fight, I think. Mike Perry? Mike Perry. Ooh. That's cool. Mike Perry, the predominant champion or lead of bare knuckle fighting. Yeah, Jake Paul, I think it was like round six or something, he got a knockdown and it was called a TKO.

She seems like she's doing all right. Yeah. She's thriving. Yeah, I want her to be thriving. If she ever wants to come on sad boys and talk about her experiences going through this whirlwind she's welcome yeah i hope she just has lovely times it seems like it's like just traveling good times i know she has good people around her that's neat and not moving so not moving is nice i don't know how much you guys keep up with jojo siwa

we've i think we've said before that we are we were above the age where we feel like we can comment on it it feels not only that because we didn't watch jojo siwa at the time or really even follow but also i'm always gonna hesitate when i mean i don't she's a kid right so she's very young yeah she's very young. Yeah. She's very young. She's 21, which, you know, it's you want to give her the benefit of the doubt because obviously, you know, she was facing some crazy circumstances in her like upbringing. And, you know, she was a dance mom's kid, right? She was a dance mom's kid. And so she was like famous from a very young age.

And she hasn't known her normal life. What? Was she slime you do slime does that what you do no no no she was a dancer it was dancing she was on a reality show reality show was dance moms and got super famous off of that she got super famous and now you know she this is how out of the loop i am to the point where i'm like when she does these funny online things i am i don't want to make the swing of like this person's really dumb to then go like oh wow she was in a plane crash that's it's it's so yeah you want to you the swing of like, this person's really dumb to then go like, oh, wow, she was in a plane crash. That's crazy.

So, yeah, you want to, you know, not go too hard on her. But she has been saying some like just really ridiculous things, you know, that are hard to ignore. Yeah, because and you can't ignore them. And now you're showing them to us. Yeah. Forcing us not to ignore them. It's a regular Tom McDonald type scenario. Yeah, yeah, yeah. showing them to us yeah i'm forcing us not to ignore the regular tom mcdonald type scenario um i did want to show you guys a couple parts of this interview she did with cosmo so she's so her vibe right now is uh uh bedazzled crossing guard yeah that's right she's uh helping

in a construction area but with glam and and riz sheiz. She's been experimenting a lot with her, I think, kind of brand because she did the, with the whole Karma press tour era, she was doing the sort of like kiss inspired black makeup. Right. Can we just say Karma is on the record a banger. While I personally prefer the Britt Smith version, I can't deny it's a good song.

I immediately do have the melody in my head. Yeah. And I know the dance beat for beat. I dislocated my arm doing it. Yeah, I've been doing it non-stop. It's my main form of cardio. So the intro I think will give you a good kind kind of vibe on what this interview is. Hey, Cosmo.

I'm JoJo Siwa. And today, I'm going to be going through some famous scenarios and letting you know how I would handle them. Is that what this is? This is If It Were Me. Dude. Okay, that's interesting. I just got to say, the velocity that the internet is throwing out

these kitschy game type interviews is overwhelming to me. It's always something new and they are always too long. Yeah. That internet search one, you can always see a breaking point where, you know, like Pedro Pascal or whatever. It's like, oh, there's another board. Okay. The ones that I love though are the ones where it know like pedro pascal or whatever it's like oh there's another board okay yeah okay the ones that i love though are the ones where uh it's like puppies they just like bring out a bunch

of puppies it's probably rejuvenating yeah because i just i because it's uh i want that experience like i want basically i want to hang out with a bunch of puppies they can piss and shit on me all they want and then i want like a very strong shower slash bath combo. Yeah. And then I'm down to do another like. I'll answer any question under those circumstances. Now you have to try every Moroccan snack or whatever. The first set of scenarios are all based on pop culture.

In season two of Grey's Anatomy, Meredith Grey famously begs Derek Shepard to pick me. Choose me. choose me, love me. Is that where pick me comes from? Yeah. Okay. Really? Like pick me girls? Yeah. Well, is that in that clip is she being like, let me hang out with the guys. I'm just one of the boys. Like, what is it she's saying me for? I assume it's surgery. It's in a romantic context because... I would tell Meredith to just follow her heart, feel exactly how she's feeling. And if she has the balls to say that to him, girl, if you can get McDreamy, do it.

Do you have an opinion or take on pick-me girls? I don't like when people do things for attention. Oh, no. This face, too. That's the part that i was like okay jojo me personally i guess i don't like judge people as much as you do i hear that i'm like i absolutely do things for attention like or at least have i think it's a human nature especially when i was 21 well i was gonna say i was like well i was thinking about when I was 21. Well, I was going to say, I was like, well, I was thinking about when I was 11,

but there's no reason that I have a Stewie Griffin impression except for attention. Oh, dude. Press a prank for me. I think everyone, to a certain extent, does things for attention. I think what's cringy about it is saying, I don't like when people do things for attention you know what i mean i know what i

mean i know what you mean i mean that in itself is kind of like a pick me kind of i know it's very interesting because it's a signaling authenticity virtue based based on the statements that jojo siwa has made in like full kiss garb yeah it is very interesting and just like the the literal statements where it's like, no one's done this before. We're really like breaking new ground. I think we talked about it a few weeks ago for some topic on the show.

And ever since, I've kind of had my mind stuck on like the value we place on authenticity for arbitrary things. Like there's, I think it's important to be authentic when you express your values or principles and because then you actually follow through with them and it can be toxic to be the person that's lying about an idea.

But, you know, I think it's important to be authentic when you are trying to help someone or actually present yourself in an emotionally sincere way. It's important in relationships. There's like authenticity and truthfulness all very important things i i never really thought about it before but there is a i do think there's a little bit of almost like religious deification of authenticity that doesn't really matter like when people say like oh your accent's changed or something like that first of all it's never people went wrong it's always american saying

right right it's like there's a superficial version of authenticity and i feel self-conscious about it but i also it's about whether something feels authentic versus actually is but also who care in theory i do care like it would bother, but I know that thinking about it now, it is kind of arbitrary. And if someone is, I mean, being a pick me or whatever, that seems like the kind of thing that is only ever policed by other people that may have done the same, or it's like the foundation of cringe is self-consciousness, right?

Otherwise, it's just laughing at something. If you you're cringing it's because you're like oh i remember when i could have did would have done that and it stuff like pick me girl stuff i don't know like maybe i'm speaking too broadly i feel like it's only ever women in my life criticizing it does not feel like something that uh okay so there are three men present here and one anastasia no no no not now later nice right and i i want to ask you anastasia uh but not you're not speaking for women no i'm No, I'm only speaking for my own experience. And you are off screen by choice. And you are off screen by choice. But I do love how many unspoken people, we've got the intern who has also like

chose that name for themselves, but it seems like it's a way to like diminish, you know. Diminish their work because they are not one of us. And then also they are non-binary so it's like the uh we're not referring hiding no yeah yeah and then there's even when they would bother people publicly involved yeah of course of course but what i was gonna say was in my In my experience talking to my female friends, the pick me thing is as much, it's like a, are you a girl's girl's litmus test type thing where it's like, are you, it kind of feels like it's,

oh, this person is performing for an audience of usually men compromising their values for that attention and i think that that in my mind is what a pick me is where it's like i don't care about i just want to be chosen and so when you know we see those like grifters who are like um ladies uh you've gotta get married and have babies that's the only way you'll have value. Why do you have an Instagram? Or like Pearl, like just Pearly things is like a pick me because she literally has a quote where she's like, well, of course I'm going to pick me because I don't want to not be picked.

So I think there's a key. Because it says very dangerous things. Sorry to talk over you. Just give us a second. There's a key thing in your explanation like your explanation is correct but the key element in all of this is putting other women down like yeah i think if you want to compromise your own values to cater to men great do that like fine don't put other women down and for not doing that the value you're compromising is being

misogynistic yeah so if you're like um like for me personally uh there's like a kind of law in my brain that i live by that i don't compare myself to other women. I don't compare other women to each other because that's how we get put down. And so I feel like the whole pick me thing is like truly only bad because it makes other women feel bad for being who they are, right? I don't know. I'm sorry. Well, I was going to say when I was young, and I think a lot of women go through this when they're very young,

they think I'm not like other girls. I'm cool or whatever. But for me, it was because I literally didn't want to wear dresses or kind of present femme and and so for some reason like that made me think like oh I'm I'm cooler or better instead of just being like this is just who I am I don't have to compare myself to other girls I guess you're doing a literally do not pick me do not talk to me about this thing I'm not not like, I don't want to, it's like when, you know, often conservatives, but like people online will be like,

oh, all these, everyone's always talking about these pronouns. Like you're always talking about these pronouns. You don't need to point me out. I'm just trying to do my thing. One thing that I did, you know, cause like my perspective just from like racially, uh, when I was a kid, when I had the random podcast, when I was 14, there's a few bits that I don't usually play when I'm like talking about that, where like, I do like a stereotypical black character. And there's a part of that that feels like performing as a black child for a white

audience that like is, it's like, feels like minstrelsy. It feels like inauthentic to the black experience. And from, from an identity standpoint, I think that when I was much younger, I used to be made fun of a lot and And I only grew up around black people and it wasn't so much a racial thing because I had no desire to be white or any identity other than what I was. But because I felt excluded, I needed to then justify what made me valid.

And then that end result put other people down. So it's like the, there's a Chris Rock bit that's like inwards versus black people. Yeah. And that's, and that's kind of what I was doing. Like a 14 year old, I hadn't seen the Chris Rock bit, but I was doing like a 14 year old version of that in my own head because I was like, well, I'm not ghetto, even though I live in the same neighborhood. I live in the same like poor East side of Gainesville neighborhood. Uh, and where, where it's like predominantly black. Uh, but I don't talk like everyone else. And that's actually makes me better instead of it's a cope.

And it's a cope because I was being made fun of. And would operate in reverse potentially if, well, actually, yeah, I don't speak white like all these other guys. Right. And I think that we talked about this maybe ages and ages and ages ago in our, like the, like kind of where are you really from episode of the Cowboys, like the 2017 one, but, or 2018 but uh I think that there were some years in my adolescence where I like denied my blackness not on purpose but because I didn't want to be seen as a stereotype and then I totally understand where like you know the model minority type thing comes from because it's like I inadvertently was playing into that now then I then I go to college and I'm surrounded by a diversity of thought and a diversity of black people from different experiences. I'm so grateful that I went to school in Atlanta, which just has so many black people just like out of the box. and then also at Georgia Tech I had black deans and black professors and black student groups

where I could experience a diversity of black thought shout out to the roots a diversity of black experiences and also just having more experience with black nerds like myself

to realize that we are not like a monolith and, uh, and kind of shed and embrace the same experience. Exactly. And to also be able to then embrace my own identity, because now I, I wasn't sort of closing my mind to this like, um, monolithic perception of what it meant to be black. I had my friends and stuff, uh, who were like, all my friends were black growing up, but, um, uh, except for Michael who lived across, he was like the one white guy in the neighborhood. Um, shout out Michael. Uh, I saw him on, uh, RuneScape the other day. No, no, this is months ago or maybe even years ago, but I saw him on RuneScape once when we talked for the first time in like 15 years and he's doing well. I think he's a mechanic.

He knows so much about cars. Anyway, all that's to say, I understand, well, sort of when you describe this, I can kind of map it to my own experience. Obviously I don't have the same experience, but that's like my version of it. So like the psychology makes sense to me. And I think with Jojo Siwa, the unfortunate part of this is she has lived her whole life in front of cameras. Yeah. But I think what she's going through is actually not uncommon for young

people. She's trying to find her identity. She's trying to figure out who she is. And sometimes you got to swing hard in wild directions to figure that out. I think, honestly, a lot of what we're saying here is kind of the reason that we've been hesitant to talk about JoJo Siwa stuff before, despite seeing it, maybe get a text about it and go, oh, that's kind of funny, that's a little weird.

It's, I am not a fan and will never be a fan of the whole kids need bullying motif, right? Because really it's just a very toxic way of saying kids need like feedback and guidance. Right. And it so happens that most of the time, because you're spending the majority of your childhood in a school unsupervised by the parents that should know you best then your teachers are not going to give you social

guidance and so it's only lord of the flies it's like the only way you learn to do things you only grow from negative cringy experiences instead of receiving genuine feedback or like feeling positive about the growth instead it feels more like uh embarrassing thing embarrassing thing bad thing bully thing and you're calcifying into being a less embarrassing person not actually growing it makes you scared of doing things instead of excited about doing other things right that's just an institutional issue no real solution for it aside from the parenting angle which is not an easy thing to say. It is so hard to raise a well-adjusted person. But though I am against the bullying thing, that sentiment, I do think there is value to

light ribbing when someone is experimenting, not in the sense of like, oh, it's not tall poppy syndrome. Like, oh, Mr. Hollywood, I'm trying to wear a nice hat, huh? But there is. That is what I said to you earlier today, right? Yeah. You said I was living the Hollywood dream. I said, thank you.

You shoved me to the ground. Started laughing at me. You're very strong. But, you know, Jojo Siwa, I think as an adult, when you're reviewing some behaviors and rightfully, rebelling is like a very patronizing way of putting it. I feel like it's almost like when people call female comedians potty mouth. Guys don't rebel.

They just like, they become cool. She just says anything. And she's like the potty mouth comedian, you know. But I think like. Doing this is like perfectly like, I think some of the validity in making fun or like poking fun is like, hey, come on, you got to be aware when you said just doing it for attention. Come on, Jojo. Also, like Miley Cyrus went through this thing as well when Miley Cyrus was like Hannah Montana.

She wanted to come out as her own. Well, I bring up Miley Cyrus because she had that bangers era where she was like, you know, in the most cynical view, co-opting black culture, taking a tourism stop in a tourist stop in black culture, getting, getting some hits out of it and then steering back into her country roots. But a more charitable approach to that, especially because I don't think that, now I'm not going to sit here and lie and say that Miley Cyrus didn't get criticized during that time and after that time, but especially in retrospect,

people seem to have these like rose-tinted glasses for Miley Cyrus, especially because Jojo Siwa, you know, has cited Miley Cyrus as being an inspiration. The only difference between Jojo Siwa and Miley Cyrus in terms of the like, to me, in terms of the psychology of what like drives you to like wade into these different spaces and try to find your identity is that we just don't like Jojo Siwa's music. There's something that always bothered me about Miley Cyrus's transition from like child performer to adult performer.

And this is actually a very, very common thing for young actresses and singers. A huge part of her transition, Miley Cyrus, was sexualizing herself and being naked. Jojo Siwa's not doing that. Yeah. And I do have to wonder if that's not part of it too. Granted, the critique of Jojo Siwa's not doing that. Yeah. And I do have to wonder if that's not part of it too. Granted, the critique of Jojo Siwa is like,

she is trying to be adult without being sexualized, without being nude. And that's bothering people because it's not the progression that they would like to see. I understand there's other stuff bothering people. There's other stuff. Like her saying something. She says funny stuff.

Saying, you know, I don't like when people do stuff for attention when she's very obviously doing stuff that might be for attention. You say creative gay pop? Hilarious. Especially someone who is a performer, someone who is actively trying to sell records. And when someone looks at you with a straight face and they're like, no one's ever done this before. And it's like you're releasing a song that was quite literally written 15 years ago.

Yeah. That was literally done before by someone else. And then to the point where they released the music, it just kind of like defeats this entire narrative that you're trying to present. But maybe part of the problem is just that she doesn't have a good team around her who can help her with this sort of thing. My cringy, the equivalent of pick me, sorry, in your experience with doing the minstrel CEO talking about is like, I grew up in a white town, a vast majority white town. And some of a big, big portion of my, you know, I wanted to be funny. I didn't necessarily want all the attention from everyone, but I wanted to be known as that to a two-dimensional degree.

When you get a little old, you maybe hopefully realize that you can have both. You can have a good time with people and your status as funniest or second funniest or whatever does not have any impact on your well-being or what you can express to people but i was so obsessed with the idea of ingratiating myself through being funny because i was quite you know i was deflecting with with humor not just because guys do that which plenty of people do but quite literally because i was just like very self-conscious about the idea of somebody seeing me as other because people had for so many years because literally i was or fetishizing me like can i touch your hair blah blah blah i lent in so hard when i was like 15 through 17 to with a specific expanded group of friends anything where it would be people at house parties that aren't my closest friends but friends of friends people i see once a week or whatever i leaned so hard into

referencing my blackness or like saying aren't you racist or something you know like like bringing that in doing a voice which makes no sense like it doesn't make any sense that i'm doing every moment you know i was leaning into it and then somebody i can't even remember who it was i just remember somebody i didn't like said to me so i didn't um metabolize it very well at the time but over next year or two it hopefully kind of eroded away at this bad habit which was uh somebody i didn't i barely knew somebody that i had not super gotten along with in the past. They specifically said like, oh, you're the guy that always just does racist jokes, right?

And I went like, oh, I barely know this person. That is the minstrel aesthetic I'm building for myself by choice. This was never a demand from anyone. This was me telling myself, I'm just going to be one of the boys, you know what I mean? By doing this. And I don't imagine he listens to the show. This is a different guy, but there was a friend of mine, another light-skinned black kid, the only other one in the extended friend group. And I do think, I don't know if this was a mutual thing, but I do think I

was resistant to getting especially close to him because it felt like he was occupying it. It's that Key and Peele sketch. I would say the acapella green. Yeah. Wow. And it's like, hey, man, we already got one of those. What do you think you're doing, nigga? Exactly.

Yeah, a little obsessed with that. And I do regret it because he absolutely was just a light-skinned Dragon Ball Black nerd. And it's like we should all be, we should be fusing actually. We have to work together. But that feels like such a normal part of growing up to me. And it just sucks that she's doing it in front of cameras. And I always think this, I've said this before and I'll say it again. Whenever people criticize rookie basketball players,

I'm always like, you have to remember this is a 19, 20 year old kid. Sometimes 18. Sometimes 18. Like this is someone. Their entire life has been playing basketball. And they've got their entire life. They might be playing in LeBron case, for another 18 to 20 years.

And doing way more embarrassing things. Having, like, thinking about the things that I did when I was 19, you know, I was figuring out who I was. I was doing cringy stuff. I am certain of it. Oh, yeah. Oh, I saw you. Anastasia was doing, you were doing a lot of racial humor, a lot of Cuban riffing.

Yeah. I was doing a lot of racist jokes against Cubans. Ooh, that's more law. I don't know if people know. I wasn't doing that, but I was, before we started recording, I did say I can't do my mom's accent and that's probably a good thing. Yeah.'t i shouldn't do it yeah uh the one last thing i wanted to say about that was this reminds me also of uh i guess this is a little bit distanced from the jojo siwa thing but just talking about our own experience is uh in black white the etiquette class yeah when um do you remember what his name was nick nick when nick had the white people saying the n-word and he's like realizing that the role that he plays for

this audience of like white boys because he was very much on the the initially on the team of like it's just a word who cares yeah and then you hear it in a context and a speed, and also with like an R that's harsh enough to like, you're like, whoa, that's like a genetic memory unlocked. Yeah, wait a minute. Yeah, because there's just so much stuff that, especially when you get even younger, like when I was in middle school and stuff,

the amount of like, you know, it's like I had friends of, I just feel like I experienced every friend of a marginalized group making jokes at the extreme expense of that marginalized group. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like Indian dude making fun of Indian stereotypes, like a Jewish dude making, you know, Holocaust jokes that are just like so horrible, but that's a part of like, you're 11, you're 12, you're 13, you're that's a part of like you're 11 you're 12 you're 13 you're like learning it's cathartic these things and you're also trying to if you're growing up in a multicultural environment uh especially when it's like not especially when it's white dominated you like are like navigating that like tokenism as well where you're like oh i want to just be accepted

so maybe the way that i'm accepted is as a token and it takes a lot to like undo that uh and there is a value in our artistry to use as as an adult and onwards and like you know so much of the conceit of like uh there's tons of sitcoms where the joke is at the expense of someone doing that to themselves or at the or is through a lens that only someone with a token experience can write about that key and peel sketch can only be the result of two guys that had performer experiences were in improv were in those you know but i like it this the sketch would not work if the end of it the joke was you really just shouldn't have any black guys in here oh yeah i think that like that campbell thing probably comes from these two black dudes doing improv with a bunch of fucking white

guys and on mad tv or whatever and on mad tv where it's like they probably got linked together and they i don't know if they resented each other at any point, but it could just be the other light-skinned Dragon Ball Z fan type situation. Oh, yeah. But yeah. One thing I just remembered from that Black White episode that you guys did, which everyone should go watch those YouTube videos.

Your word's not ours. You're still going to watch the finale. One thing that's important about when Nick kind of started figuring out like, oh, maybe I actually don't like when these guys say the N word. Part of that is because he could talk to his parents about it. And his parents were so thoughtful and, and sweet and like defended him. Yeah. And, and explain things in a way that he could understand. It's like having people that you can talk to about those things and who can, um, not make you feel like a complete idiot.

Cause when you're a kid, that's a horrible. Yeah. Cause you're like making sense of all of this. Yeah. And your parent, in this case for Nick, his parents had gone through that, you know, and could kind of synthesize some of the like raw feelings he was feeling until like here's what's actually going on yeah so I kind of feel like that's key to this whole discussion including with Jojo Siwa it's like yeah you need that guidance you need someone in your life who can kind of help you figure out identity stuff because it's hard i'm very thankful to my mom especially she was like uh i remember there was one time i was like

five or six or something and it was like one of the first times i really saw her crying it's because i said i wished i was white and that was purely circumstantial because you're a kid and you just want as little friction as possible absolutely you don't know why things are happening in the context of it what you want more than anything is to go play with your toys. You want to be left alone. There really was no way to avoid that. It was more the environment, right? But my mum, I think, was very wise in that she didn't just encourage, like,

accepting myself for who I was. She was also very conscientious, not just the black anglo black experience but she was also like gave me a heavy emphasis on my dad's because you know he was back in kenya before i was had much of a brain and so it was uh experience of like no no you have as much as you want it african roots and if we go there everyone looks like you you're like also i was as especially as a kid i i'm i'm very light-skinned now but that's just because i was a fucking nerd i did not look mixed as a kid i look no i completely black i experienced that as well just like lack of sun exposure and so as a kid i was like there wasn't even the black

vestigation element of like well is he, has he got older, lankier and lighter? It weirdly became more hateful thinking I was a Middle Eastern. There's a lot of people being like, I think I was a Middle Eastern immigrant. And when that started happening, I think that's specifically when I was like, no, no, no, no, no, which is equally negative. I, no part of me should have been like, no, I'm not Middle Eastern. It was more because people, that was real hate.

At least in my town, it was more fetishism for Africanism because it was kind of a hippie town or whatever. But yeah, I think everybody has that experience to a degree. I hope or would hope, and I guess you just can't when you're famous and especially young, you just hope that not only is the team around a good, but just as friends. Yeah. They will go like, hey, that is so cringe.

Don't say that. I've never been more grateful that I like kind of started after I was an adult. Yeah. The bubble facing world. I do kind of want to know what the gypsy was. Yeah. That wasn't even the part I was going to show you guys. The bubble-facing world. I do kind of want to know what the Jeep Seaworths Bunch of Fun is. Yeah, that wasn't even the part I was going to show you guys, but that was just a random bit she was doing.

What was the part you were going to show us? Basically, in here, she says that, and this is something that I saw on her subreddit. People have mentioned she's said before. Oh, I've seen this before yeah but she like has said that she wants three children named freddie eddie and teddy and that she wants them because she's gay as shit she wants them via surrogate but all at the same time but from the same batch as she says,

so that they're still technically triplets. That's potentially dangerous, no? And also just, like, gets into the weird, like, Morley gray, like, aspects of genetics and surrogacy. And so people are, like it like seems like something that someone like her would like be joking about but she said it multiple times and she said in this interview also she says

the interviewer asks her so like what if your like future wife doesn't like agree on the names and she's like then I literally divorce her like I have to show you guys the new dance that she's been doing that way way is that, is that real? Oh, that's the tool.

Oh yeah. Oh, she's also looks like a dick and balls. Second of all, it's tools. There's no tools. Tools to read. Um. I'm your guilty pleasure. No. It sounded like side of wolves.

But this is what I mean about her. Oh my God. The bow. Yeah. that was like uh shaolin like i feel like there's some someone should have said hey don't do the tool logo and don't do this dance there was a uh interesting post from grimes that i saw where she was just like this is transcendent like challenging art it's you guys should not you guys are scared of weird shit and a part of me was like yeah a little bit kind of it is weird yeah respect we are scared um we've got how did we find this so this is uh one of our lovely researchers shout out to

shannon and hayley because they're awesome awesome and send us so much good stuff. But anyways, they sent us this TikTok account that I was like not, I was having a hard time making sense of it. Yeah, like what's going on here? Cadet Police Academy. God, that's a lot of text on that. For a symbol? Yeah, for context, as far as we can tell this is uh some kind of

sort of an indoctrination to thing i you know i don't know if i would say that but maybe you would because it is but this is a uh youth police academy training future cops is that what it is i think explicitly or it's i think it is yeah i think it i think it they call themselves um law enforcement education for youth oh wow okay all right yeah they're sorry oh yeah yeah the reason i clicked on this video is to go to their page um it's never a good sign when you just need so many words do you know what i mean like your whatever your mission is requires so many adjectives and now so they only only have 1,600 followers, but a lot of their TikToks have gotten tons of views. Tons of views.

All right, so yeah, let's go through the regiment, the itinerary, the syllabus. Let me just, first of all, Jarvis, thank you for your service. Thank you for your, okay. Thank you for something. Thank you. You are not exempt! Man to man! Okay, a bunch of kids having to do push-ups. Thank you. You are not exempt! Okay, a bunch of kids having to do push-ups.

Push-ups on a carpet. Left by left! What are they saying? Left, right, left. Oh, they're doing marching. Like marching language. I don't like that they're doing push-ups at all. And I don't like any of this, if I'm being honest.

The chants. I don't like military cosplay for children. I know. What is the goal? You don't go to space camp to become an astronaut but you do go for a compelling time maybe.

But you kind of are going to either join the army or the police. I feel like your parents put you in this. Yeah, there's a pipeline essentially. You're there for an extended period of time. I don't know. Yeah, I guess we're going to

learn. If I go for one day and they make me do push-ups during lunch, see ya. Advanced felony stops? So now it's time to start training on the first day building searches why do kids need to know this yeah they're using fake guns

in a sort of arrest situation you get a call about a black teenager having the gall to be outside oh and they're doing the thing where you get cover behind the like door of the car it's cosplay a little bit, right? It is, but can we just cosplay something a little more fanciful?

Yeah, this feels like it is training. It feels like training. It feels prepping them. It's a little like those, how do I say it? This quite literally feels like indoctrinating our children. Yeah, I mean, what else? People yap online about how they're they're making the kids learn gender theory or whatever i feel like i have a lot of issue with this because it's just

like introducing like violence and i'm like kids i mean i get like cops and robbers or whatever but this is too and it's okay watching an action movie or a cartoon, but this just feels too real. It feels a little like when there was a crackdown on representation of ads on YouTube and now you need to disclose that something was an ad and you needed the tags and that became kind of normalized because everyone woke up or admitted to the fact that children don't have media literacy and they literally think that they should buy Voodoo Ranger IPA

because you had it. Oh, I guess he just really likes it. But there is no avoiding the fact that like they had to do that because kids can't separate fiction from reality. When kids would play cops and robbers, they were playing, you know, a cop from Looney Tunes. They were playing the Hamburg a cop from looney tunes they're playing uh the hamburglar is the robber and this is like it's almost like creepily mundane it's like yeah

here's what you do you have to stop someone for a frisk uh here's uh the paperwork class where we learn how to file a police report now be careful because if you disclose a little bit too much about how physically violent you were, you may compromise the investigation. When I was a kid, my dad was in the military and me and my siblings played. Sorry, I had no idea. Me and my siblings would play army where we would like, you know, crawl in the backyard and like pretend to shoot at stuff. You want a narrative for your play, right yeah and then when I was in high school I told my dad like hey what if I went into uh ROTC ROTC which is like the did they call it ROTC because I always heard ROTC or junior

ROTC well we we called it ROTC that's fun because you were you were in the know a foamy brat yeah so I was like what did that stand was like. What does that stand for? Really? What does that stand for? Sorry, I'm yawning. I actually don't even know what ROTC stands for. Recruit of the Reserve Officers Training Corps. So essentially what it means is you become an officer as soon as you enter the military. Jesus.

Rather than being a grunt. Grunt is probably not even a nice word. I don't know. It's like getting into defensive driving goals before you get insurance. So yeah, exactly. So I said to my dad, like, hey, what if I went into junior ROTC? So as soon as I left high school, I could be in the military and, you know, have a job or whatever. And my dad said, don't do it. You wouldn't like it. And I said, okay. Yeah. But in my brain, it was like,

this is a very normal thing. And right. It's so normalized. Cause I remember the ROTC stuff in my high school and just like, uh, how they'll come, like the police will come to like recruit like high school kids who don't know anything or the military will come yeah that is i don't know if that is just i had a you know my farming town uh maybe we were just like that one is exposed to if it exists or if it is literally not allowed but we wouldn, we never had any kind of like recruitment, uh, on campus or in general. I do think there's places where it's like not allowed.

Yeah. Not in America. It's always not in America. Yeah. Like in the UK too, like the, isn't it where like the military isn't allowed to do advertisements? Uh,

yeah, you can't put ads on TV until a certain time, though. I don't know if that's still the case. Cause there are like SAS because there are, like, SAS ads, and those are, like, one way to belong. You, find your mates. And it's a guy with a black face.

You'll make friends here? That was their campaign? That actually genuinely is so often the thesis. Oh, I feel like that's a lot of the army ads, and then now on Twitch they'll have, like, ads and talk about, like like playing call of duty or whatever it's like call of duty in real life well there's a weird thing any friends that i had and i guess it's just our age demo but the friends that i had that were considering the military

were kind of always framing it as the american military and you well it was the american military or the sas which is a you know you leave an annoying comment if you're a boring person that knows about the army, but it's perceived at least as the Navy SEALs. That's like the aesthetic equivalent. Special forces kind of thing. And so they were just like, yeah, I'll need to join the SAS

because that's one side you play in Call of Duty 4, or I will join the, I'll be Soap McTavish. Call of Duty 4, anybody? Okay, don't worry about it or i joined the american military because that's the one from movie how's your week been good just good it's been great well what if it was just good sir my day's been going very good sir has anybody asked you that yet today? Sir, yes, sir. How did you answer that? That's not a good answer, sir.

Why not? Because I was distracted, sir. Distracted? Sir, yes, sir. What if you were on the job and got distracted? I wouldn't be good, sir. Dude, why is the instructor so sleepy? Yeah, what if you were on the job and got distracted?

You look like you get distracted a lot on the job, sir. Take those shades off, brother. What the hell? It's not the military, sir. Take those shades off, brother. What the hell? It's not the military, dude. Yeah, I'm a little confused. I thought, because this is just military school. It's just like they're cosplaying. They're like excited to be able to do this.

That's insane. With kids with all their face down on the desk, what is this related to? Basic nap time with spa meditation music what is he saying is it is he speaking no way it's nap time for basic so it's a bunch of kids is this what is this this is so dark yeah it feels like a judge ito manga or something their faces all meld practicing arrests the framing of bad guy too feels flawed yeah there's a lot of that because the reality of these things is uh it's pretty gray well that's why it's called arresting not prosecuting yeah

you don't actually we don't actually know if they're bad until, you know, innocent until proven guilty. And also like even framing it as arrest training and not like, this is combat training. You could arrest someone without throwing them on the ground. It's just the optics of just like seeing kids arresting other kids feels like some Lord of the Flies shit. Yeah. Yeah, seriously. like some lord of the flies shit yeah yeah seriously i've seen so many officer videos and there's never one officer taking down another person it's always like 10 guys taking down like a 14 year old yeah it's a guy falls out of a slide and they'll shoot it and they're yelling

stop resisting while he's like i'm hurt i hurting. They're like throwing him out of a helicopter. It's not realistic. So then the adults of the program also act in these scenarios. So basically he's cosplaying someone having a mental health crisis, which is super cool. I guess trigger warning for that. Yeah.

That's far enough. Turn your radios off now. It's a guy wearing just a bunch of tinfoil. Does he think he's a robot? That's far enough. Turn your radios off now. All radios need to turn off. Does he think he's a robot? I am not going to tell you again. I am not going to tell you again. Get your hands off of me. What did he do wrong, though?

Handling. Oh, right. Because he put his hand in his pocket, so he might have a weapon. Yeah. They all pulled the gun out. Yeah. Well, he's not complying, so that's what they say in the... The spaceship is above us.

Why are you not listening? Why are you not listening? I'm getting close to our officers they had too much fun building this like there's no reason you needed to go completely off you need foil

it doesn't need to be aliens or like oh they're arresting him also why do they need so many people to be involved in that what how many cops are they putting out of that's that's actually true real yeah well because it is just like it's like a bystander bias or whatever kind of thing where like cops just keep turning up and they're all just standing around going like i guess we're arresting him with some um okay it feels like they're spawning in they do yeah look you can either it's it's

interesting when at what point the fiction and the fun comes back in but like you cannot have fun when you are talking about a judo but you can have a little whimsy when you're talking about somebody having a severe mental health crisis right they're being silly right no it's it's very serious you and 300 friends it's very serious right now. You and 300 friends. It's very serious when I'm asking if you're having a good day. And they're not teaching them how to have empathy and, you know.

Here's how you take down the bad guy. It's like just glorified cops and robbers. What was different about that than any arrest? They were just, they were circling him and being like, stop doing, don't do that.

Please don't, I'll kill you. There's so much i i just see so much like uh you know in my own community of like people trying to keep you know like uh if uh uh like an unhoused guy like comes into the coffee shop yeah and then like everybody's like, hey, can we get you anything? You know, we just want to make sure that you're good, but also you can't like loiter. And, you know, we never wanted to get to the point of like calling the cops because once it gets to that point, it's like the, it's like there's, it's so hyper militarized that it's like. That is sweeping the problem away because it will not benefit them in any way and it is just removing the issue from you if you're motivated to do that it has to be on

the rare occasion where there is like some kind of physical component to it yeah and that i don't know i've lived in the tenderloin for a long time and that is very uncommon. It does not happen, but like, I feel like especially in like outside of major cities, people are just like, there's this constant crime happening in New York. Oh, I mean, if you go on Twitter, it's like the Tinder line. I can't walk two feet without hitting a needle.

You know, in Manhattan now, it's actually made out of guns. It's like there has never been less crime in New York. It's always on fire.ork well and you know we have lots of friends who still live in san francisco yeah and all of the headlines are like crime is up in san francisco it's like no it's not like it's actually more of a ghost town than ever i remember there was one instance of a i think we've talked about this before an instance of like a some think we've talked about this before, an instance of like a, some tech founder dude getting stabbed. And then people were like,

this is why we've got to move out of San Francisco. Cause the, they're not doing anything about the crime. And then it comes out that like, it was a crime of passion. Cause like that guy was dating the perpetrator's sister. Yes. You know what I mean?

And, and, and even the concept of it having to be like, it's like a real guy that got stabbed. yeah it was a real guy yeah and it and it the guy that matters and then no one ever here and everyone sort of did their hand wringing about how it was the unhoused population and how they need to do something about in san francisco and then it comes out that it's not that and then the retraction is never as loud as the accusation. And it just like, it just furthers this like, it's the visibility part where it's like, yeah,

that people, these unhoused people wandering around attacking you and it's like, well, no, it's because on a rare occasion, somebody does get killed. A lot of the time it's in a house. Other times it's just not visible to me. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Or I have a bias that has already made me afraid of, like, the guy who, like, politely asked if I can grab him a bottle of water

and I tell him that I'd have COVID or whatever people do these days. All right. Well, I think that's a good place to end it, at least for this episode of sad boys we'll be continuing right where this left off on our patreon exclusive podcast sad boys nights does this make sense when i do this like we're going over oh i see yeah we're going over universe this week on nights jordan you've got a beef that you want to discuss I have a beef with a certain online figure that a lot of people seem to want to weigh in on

whoa and I've never received more resistance online for any action that I've taken and I also have a really fucked up tweet I was going to do that I cannot get the

bravery to do and maybe we just show it there. If you've been following Jordan's Twitter, you might know what he's talking about, but I think we're going to be addressing the drama. And showing the things I drafted and didn't send. It's kind of like when you write a letter and don't send it, except for we do show it.

And I will send it probably. Oh. Like later. Well, to see what happens there, head on over to patreon.com slash sadboys, where you can subscribe for as little as $5 a month using your discretionary entertainment spending. No obligation.

Only do it if you fancy. Plus, if you pay for it, you can get all the, what, 70-something episodes, burn through them, listen to all, and subscribe. It's fine. With that, we end every episode of Sad Boys with a particular phrase. Anastasia, you want to get in on it sure which part do you want to do

we're sorry okay we love you and we're sorry yeah we did that weirdly in unison without looking at each other it's too many hours you guys are freaks okay so people get the because of you know like you're not allowed to say anything these days, right? You were saying this earlier. Right, right, I was saying this earlier. Nobody is ready for the truth, and a certain little red three-year-old is not ready for the smoke. This is really inappropriate.

That was my first reply. And then I followed up, I guess, two days later, I didn't know I replied twice. I said I could kick your dad's ass easily. His dad's ass? Yeah, I could. I don't want to attack him. I said, I could kick your dad's ass easily. His dad's ass? Yeah, I could. I don't want to attack him. Do we even know anything about his dad?