Sad Boyz - The Science of Becoming A Twitch Star (w/ Frogan)

Episode Date: March 3, 2023

Thank you Frogan for joining us today! ✨follow Frogan✨ Youtube Twitch ✨follow Sad Boyz✨  Instagram  Twitter 📺main channels📺  Jarvis  Jordan ✨follow jordan✨  ✨follow jarvis✨  🎶outro music🎶  @prod.typhoon @ysoblank

Welcome to Sad Boys, a podcast about feelings and other things also. I'm Jarvis. I'm Jordan. And today we're joined by a very special guest, the nominee for rising star Twitch streamer, Frogan. Hi, everyone. Public health expert, Twitch streamer extraordinaire. Fake socialist.

Fake socialist as soon as they start earning money. You wouldn't buy a house right under any circumstances oh yeah when you earn money this podcast is over we are actually

me and James we're very grounded you know we're like regular kind of guys actually we're like you we're filthy capitalists and we want all your

hard earned dollars give them to us no no no how you doing what's up Frogan I'm tired we're out really last night we're all so sleepy so yeah thank you thank you for being here How are you doing? What's up, Frogan? I'm tired. We're out really late.

We're all so sleepy. Thank you for being here. Last night, I got a text from one of our friends. It was like, hey, can 11 people come over to your house today in a few hours? And I was like, okay. It's like, we're going to go out to karaoke. And I was like, all right, sounds good. And then that happened. And it was a good time we got korean barbecue we sang some songs i went to bed at 2 a.m when did you go to bed four four o'clock in the morning i'm i'm so impressed that you're here

because i had my place is like in the middle of like bumfuck nowhere California. Well, Walnut, like no one's going to. And that's like 40 minutes away from here. Yeah. Also, you drove last night, which I feel like when I fly to a new place or a new state, I'm like never renting a car. I'm just like Ubering around. So the reason why I started renting cars when I travel is because one time at LAX,

I was booking an Uber to my hotel, $150. And that was the cost of renting a car for four days. So I was like, fuck it. Wow. That really does put it into perspective. Genuinely, it is so predatory. Because I'm like, well, it's this or live here. It's this or I just fly somewhere else.

Or I start working at the TSA, which I don't think they'd be psyched about, personally. Last time I came through customs they asked me as they sometimes do because when they H1B they kind of they want like a validation right they want to be like

well do you know what this is for I'm like oh no it's fake but I didn't think about it I didn't look at what I have to do sir it's like you have

a fake ID and they ask you when your birthday is and you punch them in the face I don't have to tell you that I know my rights I fucking hate TSA

it's so, I imagine it's a breeze for you. Yeah. It's actually so, you hate it because it's so good and efficient. And you want to do bad things. That's what they think.

All three of us are actually. We're on the same poster. Yeah. It's like a movie poster with us in the TSA. Yeah, we're b-boys dancing. I literally got TSA pre-checked because I was like, okay, that'll alleviate my time flying.

I got fucking randomly selected and bomb-swabbed again. I'm like, what is the point? That's fucked up. Dude, that's so motivated. Because I also got TSA pre-checked because I don't like being at the airport. I want to reduce the amount of time that i have to be there as much as possible and i never get anything i believe i can't have it

damn because of what i did oh yeah well i have the audacity to be born elsewhere you're the reason that we have to take off our pants when we go to the airport you don't have to do that the pants bomber the pants bomber. No, no, you don't. You can stop doing that. Oh, okay. You never noticed that I like it. Oh, yeah, sure.

So you don't know what the TSA is. You're just taking off your pants near a plane. Oh, it's not the trouser service authority? No, no, no, no. They don't wash them then.

Oh, I see. I go, just for one, could I get these? For one. I'll take a ticket. How's California treating you? I love California. People keep telling me to move here.

Move. I'm scared. I feel bad about telling people to move because what if they have a bad time? No, like I love California. Like I love all my friends here. But I'm just like Michigan to California. That's like so fucking far. It's far.

What would be the catalyst for, in theory? Is it something you even think about or is it a big no-no? No, I've been thinking about it because my lease is up in June. And I'm like, I want to move, whether it be like within Michigan or to LA. I know it'd be the best career move to move. But like the inconsistency of like streamer income. I'm like, what if I like fall off or that I lose all my money that i can't pay my rent that i'm like i don't know what the fuck to do valid anxieties i have awful news i think you might be the only creator i know

that worries about because we we and everyone else we know is like very confident that everything will stay the way that it is we always earn the same amount of money every time and we know exactly what to expect and you're the problem. Just don't have fear, I guess, is the feedback to you. That's very reasonable. I think just being a – it is a dream job. It's a very cool gig to have, but it is – it's getting more and more normalized, and there's more and more of a path, a sustainable career path,

but we are not there yet, and there's a ton of unknowns associated with going into this that you don't have for your traditional career. So it's a huge leap of faith. And it's a huge risk. And for anybody who is considering being a content creator. Don't do it. Under any circumstances. I mean, I had a full-time regular-ass career and saved money and then did it as a hobby until... And then even when I switched over to doing it full-time, I had saved up to where that I didn't

need to turn a profit immediately slash I was already earning stuff from YouTube. And even then I had a lot of financial insecurity. That's exactly what happened with me. So before I was a full-time streamer i was a public health scientist yes and then i started streaming as like a hobby right and then it turned into something i never expected it to i was like you know i'm playing games with my friends i might as well stream it right when did you start um i started august 2021 oh wow Yeah. I mean you're actually I think I would call you a rising star. Yeah.

Of sorts. But unfortunately Do you want something for it? Yeah. This is for you actually. I would consider you a rising star but unfortunately

we're going to have to boot you from the podcast as Nathan Stans is on the way and he's going to take your spot. He is going to be in town today. He robbed me last year of the award yeah that's what I was referencing for those who did not watch the stream

rewards last year continuing to rise star people are mad that I got nominated again oh that's how peculiar people online complaining about that you can only rise once you can only rise once and then you plateau

yeah well you can you can rise in girls you know what I mean it's not like regular it's like how Parasite should know

an international and best films like I'm fair people were saying I was a diversity pick of can we okay hold on

like they would be penalized at all for just not doing it it's wild how everywhere I go I am like a diversity pick. I remember when I first started making YouTube videos about tech stuff, because that's like where I like first started, just because it was getting views. I was like, people said I sold out by doing what I do now.

And I was like, I sold out by making videos about tech, because I didn't want to do that. But I thought it would get views. Anyway, people would be like, you only got an internship at Google because you're black. And was like oh but also i'm smart and good at my stuff or it's like you only got this because and then now it's like you're a industry plant with youtube because you know because they need more diversity creators or whatever it's wild you're an industry plant on twitch not but the thing is is that only white people watch Twitch. They don't need anyone else.

You know what I get? People are like, you only wear the hijab because that gets you viewers. I'm like, this doesn't make fucking sense because you say women show their boobs to get views and I'm the covered head to toe. What do you want? What do you want me to do? Like, I'm simply existing here. There's like an exact amount of material you need to wear, proportionally of size.

There's like rules in a series of like it's like a bmi the double standard reveals the like true intentions right because you've got you've got um the same people that were decrying like um is that a word yeah yeah uh the the same people that were like whining about hot tub streamers on Twitch are now the people going W streamer for like the dude who was like getting blown on kick or whatever. Like, and it's like, okay,

well, so what is the common denominator here? It's like, you know what it's like? It's like when people call it the diversity pig thing, it's like when they, when like bad bunny got nominated and everyone was like, who the fuck is this?

The Amaro centrism. What the hell? What's he? It's gobbledygook music he's like what's he saying he's not even in english i fucking love bad bunny i don't understand spanish at all but like he's literally one of my favorite favorite artists ever it's good music it's good music and he's also the most popular the most streamed artist in the fucking world people are like oh yeah him i don't know who that is i've never listened to a song where it's like okay do you want a fucking cookie or some shit like literally oh i hate when people are like well i've never heard of you because oh that's

because but you're boring it's like if you're yeah it's like somebody just goes well tom cruise sorry never heard of him it's like what is is that a flex that you are under a rock? I don't know. Yeah, I don't have a lot of exposure to stuff. Do you like being referred to as Frogan? You can call me whatever. Well, I like calling you Frogan because it builds the brand. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Of your streamer persona. I feel like whenever I come to LA, it's all Frogan. It's all Frogan. It's all Frogan. Yeah. It's all at Frogan. Do you like Michigan?

Morgan? She's dead. It's actually just Frogan now. all frogan yeah frogan michigan morgan she's dead it's actually just frogan la frogan la frogan you know i'm trying so hard to get the fucking like f-r-o-g-a-n on twitter this bitch fiona rogan hasn't tweeted ever damn that's nepotism she's joe's uh friend did you something i noticed this is very minute and weird and i'm wondering if you picked up on it twitter recently changed their font yeah to where the zero now has the hash it's really yeah and it it's your uh at on twitter is the one where i noticed it happened because you've got you know the fro the zero yeah um it seems targeted that seems mean yeah i i did hear elon musk was not a fan of you and he requested the font

change despite you i saw i was like what the fuck is this because i mean i could get away with it if my name was like all capital letters but i feel like capital letters ruins the aesthetic of things and i like all the lower i know what you mean i am also a lowercase andy um maybe a sentence that's never been said and yet it's never been more applicable in history. I wanted to ask you about the moment, because I want to talk a little bit about your story. So because we've had this in our own lives, but what was the moment where, not that you decided that you were going to do content full time, but what was the moment where you started to doubt your path where you were like hold on maybe there's an alternative journey i could be taking so

after so when i got partner um earlier that year i got partner november 2021 and when i first started streaming i was like my goal is to get partner this year and my friends were like well that's like literally not possible was it like three months yeah oh fuck yeah um i went viral on reddit and that kind of like pushed my viewership on lsf oh yeah but like the only way i mean like you can't it's not like you're gonna grow on twitch the platform that has no discoverability features but it is also a diversity pick yeah sorry industry plan lsf has diversity quotas the diversity quotas of break them fucking down as people yeah yeah it's like a self-hating thing they're like we hate this but also we have it but then i got partnered in november uh hasan rated me uh as like a celebration of partnership and that like like that's like when things like picked up

like yeah i sustained viewership and i started making like stable income and i started making more on twitch than a scientist and i was like okay um at that point i was like streaming 40 hours a week and working 40 hours a week oh my god so i'd work nine to five so i was dead yeah i really was nine to five p.m like my office job sleep go live again at nine and around like three to five a.m sleep and then repeat oh my god i don't even know how i fucking did it because like i'm just like i did a similar thing where i was like waking up i think you probably remember this like because patreon would start at like 10 a.m., 11 a.m. So I would wake up at 6 and I would write a video and then film and then edit sometimes and then go into work after that and then work a full day.

And that sucked. And it burned me out. It really fucked me up for a while. So kudos to you that's very difficult to pull off um no one knows how you did it but we're glad you did is science easy um i mean to me it kind of is that's that stem shit let's fucking go dude get out of here he went to film school what's happening um i i but i'm part of the facebook page i fucking love science and uh i've got a full back tattoo of neil degrasse yeah i should say

you ever ask my last name it's degrasse degrasse with some drake in the wheelchair it's about my favorite scene neil degrasse neil degrasse tyson it, it's Drake in space. Rolling through space. Yeah, rolling through space, spinning like an asteroid. So one thing that I want to kind of give you your flowers on, in the sort of hater discourse, I feel like there's an easy thing to do, which is to say, oh, you got raided by this big creator. Not everybody has that. Not everybody's going to get that opportunity.

But not everyone, when given the opportunity, because obviously you're like streaming, you're trying to make things work. You're like putting yourself out there. Maybe you're packaging your content. You're going, Oh, you know, maybe Reddit's a thing. I used to like post all my videos on Reddit and like have friends like upvote them, which is against the Reddit rules and shit like that. You're supposed to have friends if you're on reddit okay yeah but when when things like do when you have an opportunity the fact that you retain the viewers and retain a consistent viewership i think says a lot about your you know talent and your like content for years i was really i was shocked because at that point i had like 75 year average that's what you need to get partner and then after the raid like it was like 300 200 300 i was like at that point

i was like okay like maybe this could be right career and then i had my annual review for work in january and i was like i'm cutting my hours i told my boss i was like yeah i do content creation like what kind of content creation? I'm like, streaming. I didn't want to give her any detail because I didn't want her looking me up. And then after the Streamer Awards last year, I was contemplating quitting my job. And then one day I was streaming and I was like, let me see if I have a meeting in the morning so I could go live longer. Oh, that's a relatable feeling.

And then I had access to her calendar and she had a meeting set with like the manager of my department talking about my performance because at that point i was like doing everything for everybody right as soon as i saw the email i sent my two weeks i was like fuck it i'm like i'm done yeah i'm done you would need to be like exceptionally appreciated when you're doing exceptional work and that's generally not the case if you, you know, hey, I'm cutting my hours, but I'm still very efficient and contributing a lot for those hours as opposed to, well, no, you have to be in pain. Like to be doing a job well, you have to be suffering.

She got so mad at me because she was my mentor before. Right. And she kind of was like, you know, the way you quit was wrong. I was like, I put my two weeks, well, with the personal relationship, you're supposed to talk about it first. And then we set a timeline for you to quit was wrong. I was like, I put my two weeks with the personal relationship. You're supposed to talk about it first. And then we set a timeline for you to quit. And then if there were ever layoffs

or the company had to budget issues, they're going to cut a worker without thinking about it. And Uber is on its way to pick you up. There's not the same courtesy extended in the reverse. So why should you... And I waited until she hired... She had had three more people she hired three more people and then like it was like

me being gone was a loss because i did almost everything right that's i mean very relatable my heart goes out to you um yeah i stayed way too long at patreon i put put on my notice in September of 2018, and I stayed until February of 2019. Because I was wrapping up some projects, and I was really worried that it was going to put people in a bad spot that I was working with.

It wasn't about the bosses. It was about your coworkers that you were seeing every day who you didn't want to put in a bad spot. But even still, I didn't owe anything to the corporation. I'm glad. I have no regrets of anything like that. But when I think about the burnout

that I experienced afterward, I was like, oh, I probably went a little too hard. Yeah, no, partially for visa reasons while we were transitioning it. But when I started the company with Lauren and Brigham and... It sounds like I'm hiding my age. 19.

Jordan Adika's 32 years old? What the hell? This is... Literally, I got a tweet like... Because my famous birthday is wrong. Famous birthday is wrong. Sorry, I mean, it's right and it's very funny. It says I'm 32 years old

and the way I found out was a screenshot of the famous birthdays and someone saying this is my 9-11 how old are you actually I'm young as fuck I'm youthful I don't have to say it out loud

say it come on man say it 28 I'm 28 okay is that good I'm 26 good like what's

how about 28 I mean yeah do you hurt all the time yeah do you wake up and it's like well I better talk to the doctor

because I hurt I can't wait to be 30 but like with people that are 30 I love being like you're like almost a half decade older than me do you feel

so what you worked in your original job until you're 24 I can't do math if you quit yeah last year yeah 24 so there's like

do you feel a lot of my friends are like just creators straight out of the gate. And some of them have expressed like an insecurity about how reliant they feel on like management. Because like, I just don't know how to organize my time. Sometimes we'll just hear a story of like, yeah, I was supposed to drop a video with like a brand deal. And I just forgot. I'm like, it should be on a calendar it should be on a calendar that's on the ceiling above your bed where you wake up and you see it and you have 15 notifications and i i've talked to people about that and they're just like yeah i just didn't

it's just not part of my routine do you feel like a confidence because you had that grind in a real nine to five that made you sounds like more than that. I was also a manager like in my job before. So I feel like I kind of carried some of that into content creation. And plus like with content creation, I will never take it for granted because I know so many people like they will like fucking die to be like a creator. And I'm like, I do not want to let this slip through my fingers because I don't know how

long I have in the content creation space. Could be years. Could be months. Days. It could be today. Yeah, you're like looking at Jordan, you're like, it could be days. I'm not going to spoil it. Right now.

It's over. I'm not going to spoil it. And then Stan flies in. With a sword. And TSA agents taking away it could be yeah

two halves of Frogan no but like is that like I want to be make sure like I'm on top of things I mean I will say that

I'm really bad with emails now that's the dream I mean when there's a lot of ruffled feathers when you start, and there's so many things going on that it takes a while

to get your systems in place, I feel. There's a mythology to the nine to five, because there has to be to keep yourself sane. It has to be like, well, look how good I am at this arbitrary thing. And then you stop doing that arbitrary thing, and you realize, oh, wow, that just was for aesthetics. I was doing it for performance. I grieved quitting my job like low-key like when it because i started the research when i was 20

and i was i like helped built an intervention and i was like i'm not gonna see this through yeah do you get a do you feel like you have any benefits to your current line of work from having worked it aside from just being authority on topics and stuff yeah besides that like i feel like being able to talk to people like no matter what because i had to like i did a lot of like patient interaction and like serving and all that shit and right i dealt with fucking assholes and all that but i feel like just like talking with people like so much shit do you feel like it helps dealing with assholes now that you're a streamer i mean i the shit i see as a streamer i wish i could have said

to some other fucking people yeah that's real um there is a certain part of me that looks at streamers who will just like lay into them lay into their chat when they're like being mean that i wish i could do but it's like kind of not in my brand and the times that i've showed the slightest bit of emotion i've had people write like parasocial essays about my behavior do my chat some people in my chat will like try to like fucking read me they're like yeah you're single because you're like scared of this this i'm like like i'm pumped out like bitch like who asked who literally they think they know you i'm like i'm like sometimes i'm like you don't know me no you don't know me i don't know you i'm not your friend

it's and i'm not watching your stream it's the double-edged sword of like we benefit from the parasocial relationship you know there's no doubt about it it's like integral to the content business for a lot of people it's most of growth but the other edge of that sword is people like involving themselves way too much in your business and feeling like they know you yeah and the dark side of that is um having to go to my subreddit and go um is it just me or does uh jarvis seem kind of rude or like when he told that guy in the chat hey i make the rules around here i'm like that's what i said that you had an issue with and like hasan's like calling people like pussy ass bitch and saying you fuck their mom and i'm just like um i think

i'm the leader of the stream and they're like wow entitled much and i'm like okay no backseating please we should kill him he should be good for. I do consider myself like parasocial with my chat too. Like there's some chatters like I know like random ass shit about. For sure. Yeah. But there's like a line. Yes. I don't know where the fucking line is, but like when it's crossed, I'm like, yo, like

back the fuck up. I mean, it's the word. Oh, I do that. I do that. It's the word of the day, right? Like parasocial has kind of been in the zeitgeist for a little while. And I think that's in part just because the output of content is so intense now. And there's so many platforms

and so many creators that you do connect with to the point where a lot of viewers now, the creators they watch are the people they relate to because they could have chosen a different of the 50,000 people that better represented them that they related to. And hey, man, I don't, ultimately, I don't mind. I do think it's valuable

and it can be encouraging for people to care right and i don't think we would get the email the nice emails we get without people feeling to be relatability it is hard to gauge that what's an eight out of ten like when is it crossed over the barrier into this is causing us both pain because you're going to push for this friendship. I don't know you. And I don't want to feel like I'm exploiting your interest in that, right? Yeah. It's a weird balance. But I also think that content creators can afford to be... I feel like parasocial has a strictly negative connotation, or at least currently. And I do think that we have to be honest with ourselves

how much we benefit from it you know what i mean like it's like i get as a creator that you have to you know you want to set up boundaries and you want people to respect those boundaries absolutely but in the same breath like creators making millions of dollars off of people like wanting to involve themselves more in your business. And so it's a weird kind of balance. Yeah, guess what? No parasocial relationships, no Patreon. Just literally without existence at all.

One thing I wanted to ask you about Twitch chat, or just in general. First of all, I have an immense respect for streamers by trade because we're like streamers for fun. I'll stream, but I'm not like a, we're like streamers for fun. Like I'll stream, but I'm not like a streamer. We would pass away. Like I would be dust. No, it's like, I feel like my patience is tested minute to minute. But the one thing I think about you with like such a, you know, interesting professional background, when you say things like as a public health expert, are there people like, this is a bit, she's joking, she's making this up?

People think I'm too young to have my degree. Because I, brown parent, like my dad, like you had to go through school, like back to back to back. So I graduated high school when I was 17. I did a undergrad in psychology. I graduated when I was 22 I did that took me five years then I just went straight into my master's program and I finished at 24 people are like how are you an expert and you're 24 years old I'm like I have my fucking degree and I have years of experience in the field but like um a lot of times people try to like try me and I like have the data I'm like i know this shit like you're fucking stupid but that's annoying it is it's because it sucks to have to like pull rank

on people it never feels good yeah it feels smug in a way that's yeah not fun but it's also i don't know hey man if you're gonna act like a kid i'm gonna have to parent you a little bit if you think you should go to bed at 2 a.m i think you should go to bed at 9 p.m because you're four years old okay i feel like this is a question that is like required to ask as a public health professional what was the sort of start of the pandemic like for you because you're like oh my god the timing you're yeah the timing is you're like in the thick of it so i was in i was finishing up my first year of public health grad school. How long is it? Two years? Two years, yeah. So the first year is mostly classes.

Second year is internship. And they're like, yeah, we're going to be out of school for two weeks. And at the point, I feel like in school you got that kind of gear where you're looking at how people are responding to it and how the professionals are responding to it. And I was like, okay, this is bullshit. So that inspired me to pick up a health communication certification because i was like they're not doing shit right like the average uh reading level in america is like fifth grade true and they're talking about like mrna that's higher than me um why read british

oh yeah it's only use it's just adding use and taking use if it's not bubble letters then I can't really comprehend it or it's in gel pen tapestry till I fucking die ye olde is that like making communicating ideas with literate like making it more

literate like bringing it to a yeah a fifth grade level yeah which I even say down but it's more like wide it's more like making it bringing it to a yeah it's great level yeah which i i even say down but it's more like wide it's more like making it more widely understandable yeah you have to like good cut the jargon the big words like for me it was a struggle forever because even at work i used to do um the communication aspect for like the patient facing resources i put it in a fucking generator it'd be like 20th grade, which is like college level. I'm like, okay, I have to bring it back to the point

where it doesn't lose the messaging. It still means what it does. I remember the communication, yeah, was so, everything was so touch and go and there wasn't a great understanding about, because essentially there was a lot of fear that was just everywhere because because we the information could have very well been there but the access that we as a society had to it and the translation into like you know uh layman's terms just wasn't accessible really looking at it it's like so i feel like the communication of like masks versus not being

masked like it was still like wishy- like the communication of like masks versus not being masked like it was still like wishy-washy that created mistrust amongst people right made people like we really don't didn't know much about covid at that time so the scientists were like communicating the information as they got it and it was like people like well you don't know what the fuck you're talking about that's so frustrating why am i supposed to trust you i mean it's fascinating that it's not like a compulsory part of the research is learning how to say stuff right a lot of scientists don't know how to do that yeah that's why but you know what it doesn't surprise me because in tech spaces there is a dichotomy between like technical skill and communication. And that's why I always felt like I positioned myself in between

extremely brilliant engineers who I could talk to at a high technical level and then was sort of communicating that to products, more junior engineers. In order to get like buy-in for stuff like that you know it's like uh you know like one of our co-workers smartest guy i've ever met yeah uh terrible communicator and so i felt like i was a translator for him um like like to help him get buy-in on like projects that we should be doing i think that's how a lot of people interpret management that's what it's supposed to be it's's like translation, but this is so essential. There's not a job or not even career. There's not a way to live that does not rely on good communication for your benefit as well. People aren't going to find out that you're any good at anything if you're siloing everything you're able to do. And instead,

it's just getting filtered through your management or indecipherable email that you have to put in a generator to try and get through i just had an insight like good communication is not you know connected to good information and so it makes sense that tick tockers and people who are like excellent at attention grabbing attention and like entertaining an audience can more effectively spread spread misinformation than public health professionals can spread the proper information look at joe rogan like he uses studies to back the shit he says but he's misinterpreting the data and the results like incorrectly a lot of scientists they only care about like committing the data told like to their colleagues yeah yeah don't give a

shit about like oh because it for peer review reasons right they need approval from people and also with i mean you can speak to this more than this i'm sure but like academia has a little bit of elitism to its communication yeah you have to be a little verbose because it makes it seem more valid. If you submit something that's just like, mate, this is mental. So like this bacteria, crazy. No, that's... Look out.

But now there are like some peer-reviewed websites have a section at the bottom that kind of like puts it in plain terms and still communicates it. But it's not made accessible. Right. Wait, what? That's it, but it's not public. It's not made accessible. Right. That's so... Is it full? Yeah. It's for the health professionals that don't know anything.

That was a big thing that was frustrating. I'm sorry. I keep like relating it to my own experience, which isn't completely comparable, but I remember how it's frustrating because i felt like a lot of tech is very jargon based and the the concepts were ultimately not complicated but i think everybody was like trying to stroke themselves off and like try to like feel like really smart and so you have to like make everything sound really interesting and then the layman's terms explanation are like, we did the computer, but more and big. So we just made the data bigger and better. It felt like an exceptionally difficult place to be in with partnerships and product as well.

Because more often than not, we were giving feedback back to people that were saying, you are on the team, and they want to appear informed or have like transferable skills from working in other industries. And the truth is, is that like none of the acronyms from music production are going to look impressive at Patreon. None of the, you know, I tried doing the same thing. Effectively, I was using a lot of jargon and terminology to try and communicate to my friends that i'd start this company with the most efficient way we could be doing things and the truth is is that i was not communicating in the most efficient way i was at least on some subconscious level trying to establish a position of authority by sounding like i have yeah already

but it's really fucking off-putting to normal people. Honestly, though, a lot of people think I'm fucking stupid. For me, whenever I was in the space of STEM, I didn't try to fucking sound smart. I was like, fuck it. You're going to get it as you get it. Right, but then people are like, oh, you're not doing the thing. You're not jumping through hoops to sound extra smart, and so maybe you're not. And then. You're not jumping through hoops to sound extra smart. And so maybe you're not.

And then I hate getting too political on the show. But then you look at your like Ben Shapiro's of the world. You're like, say something really dumb, but make it sound smart. And then that's like, and then people treat that obfuscation of information as intelligence. He serves. It's this perfect force field. It's like being in like elementary school and playing tag and being like no actually i had an energy field no i had an energy field up because you critique something that ben ship and misinformation that's even

reading a paragraph that jordan peterson has wrote indecipherable it feels like someone found and replaced every word with like a word that was used 100 years ago for the same thing i think it was re-translated yeah and like the man is just it was re-translated and then put into a generator that they get benzos too yeah and it's like and why are we talking about the butterfly you know it's like the humble butterfly what you'll find is that the lobster links hands with a nightmare and the nightmare finds its way beyond have you seen frozen yeah it's sick it's scary it's so scary it's too loud let it go yeah he just loses himself he's talking about like the volume is too loud on on the little mermaid i couldn't figure out how to open my laptop

and the twitter tos is indecipherable i'm like bitch all you write is indecipherable the twitter tos is like don't uh don't be transphobic and then he's like i it just doesn't make any sense i just don't understand everything you don't like you instructions unclear i'm gonna dead name some people like oh his defense is just like she or uh him just don't write the first you know it's rock or they and what is they even get the world makes me boil like truly and suspect a man must be especially insulting to you right to have like the whole practice of informed informed research-based information be basically just dissolved yeah like i do i do blame like like left-wing like political pundits like hasan is it does a

really good job like translating yeah like information to make it more like digestible yeah um but i feel like we don't have a lot of that like for like medical data like yeah like fauci he didn't do shit like yeah he was like wishy-washy but like and he made covet i was about to probably made that's not a good idea just so we could make the jab he is johnson and johnson or something i don't know this i wish this was a crazy thing to say as opposed to 25 of facebook right i forgot the stats but like i think like a fourth of people uh think they know somebody that died from the vaccine. That's wild. I'm not sure if that's correct

but like a lot of them believe in the conspiracy theories. Yeah. And I think you know Hasan's a great point because Hasan's also brocoded so he only like his method of communication

like only works for like a swath of people. Never gotten more hate on a tweet than when I said exactly that. I'm like you hate Hasan because he's brocoded. Yeah. And you weren't bullied but you saw shows where people bullied and

and it's like i think it's like i think there's a ton of like i was saying valid critiques but i do think that like he like he's a like a very valuable like i personally consume hassan's content a ton and um but i do think that his presence makes me want more people of different flavors communicating you know information for different more disparate audiences we don't have that like on the left very much like we have like joe rogan on the right and like ben shapiro like they use like i said they use the studies they're not fucking reading it right but people like oh like they're using studies. They're not fucking reading it right, but people are like, oh, like, they're using studies. This makes sense. Like, the way right-wing people communicate things is a lot more digestible than the way right-wing.

Oh, it's very simple to understand. And plus, more often than not, the ideas are more appealing, right? Because it is. There's an enemy. It's simplicity. It's, yeah, an accessible enemy. The enemy is Joeiden instead of a system so funny by the way creating a villain of joe biden yeah but you are feeling more positive

about the communication at this point maybe kind of no okay good cove is over brother oh that's right oh yeah well we actually got some i'm i don't know which of it what who of us said it but we misspoke and said like post coven of post lockdown, which was the goal. Like we were talking about how, um, uh, like I think Curtis was talking about performing in an audience of people with masks. And it's kind of funny because when they laugh, it's like muffled and stuff like that. And then I talked about how I go to my physical therapy and it's mass required, which I comply with and support. You know what I mean? But also because I'm a mouth breather, I will like suck my mask into my face and it's uncomfortable.

I think we should be allowed to like have those minor gripes with the like, like the situation without being like anti-maskers or anti, like trying to pretend COVID doesn't exist. Cause that's not true. My shit fogs up every time I wear a fucking mask yeah it's i felt like fucking dog shit after the booster but it didn't mean i regretted getting the booster i don't think nobody else should or that i'm spreading the fact that i felt a little bit peaky as a reason yeah and it's like i have

like 10 covid tests over there i test like every day i have like the sniffles or whatever anytime like we have a big gathering, I'm like having people like test beforehand, you know, or test here and like put them in like a room to like wait. Like we're doing the best we can. I mean, obviously like I don't want to pretend that like immunocompromised people do not exist and we should not be taking um appropriate precautions and i'm always like trying to listen to people who have concern like if anyone ever had a concern with any sort of thing like in my personal life i'm going to try to comply with that you know what i mean um i mean it's kind of bridging on the leftist infighting a tad because it's policing to to perfection some people say don't say post

covid or they get mad about you saying post covid like okay can we have a little bit of charitability right because you know we don't believe that covid is over we don't very dis we're not ignoring that people are dying every day from from covid it's just semantics yeah i wear masks in store sometimes and people like fucking stare i'm like bitch like oh yeah yeah i mean i love i love wearing a mask now when um i have the slightest bit of sniffles because that's like normalized like the first time i went to japan i was like so thrown because i saw so many masks on the train way pre-covid yeah this was yeah this was like 2014 or something like that and i was like oh no is is this contagion like is something gonna go wrong and then i just realized it was the polite thing to do right and america it really brings to mind the like collectivist

versus individualist society thing where you know if you're focused on your community you're more likely to want to care for that community. Whereas America is so individualistic sometimes. It's like, well, my personal inconvenience, I'm now making it your problem. I knew we were fucked. The day lockdown got announced

in 2020, I went to Target to get some shit. I saw people fucking stockpiling toilet paper. I couldn't get shit. I was like, okay, so what do I do now? I mean, it's, I don't know how your brain would not hesitate for like just use two sheets instead of five.

It's like the last of us. And they're like, I've got to get my bunker for just me. Just me and the people I care about and everyone else, fuck them yeah like we're at a point where like i feel like people are normalizing covid like they're just like simply accepting it existing right but there's a psychological effect to like living under this like sort of fear this hum of like covid always like pervasive like in yeah and i i don't want to shame and i i'm biased because like we were might like call that as even a strong word but like some people had some things to say about

how how we were treating it and i do think there should be space for people to express emotion regarding this collective experience that we all had especially when we're not advocating for like harmful things, you know? Did you have any family to argue with initially? Believe it or not, my family was fine with it. Like they were like, they got vaccinated. They like masked up and everything. My mom's a nurse. So she works with like a lot of COVID patients. But I was like shocked,

especially like on my mom's side of the family. I was like, I feel like this would be fucking tooth and nail to push them to get the vaccine. They're like, yeah, no, we're getting it. I'm like, good. Yeah. The only people in my extended family that were even mildly hesitant about the vaccine, coincidentally, were like,

Jordan Peterson guys, for whatever reason. Interesting. Seems like you'll make any kind of sacrifice for comfort seems like you'll do sacrifice literally anyone and anything so that you're like

ah trans people scary ah I don't think they exist but also if they do don't go to the bathroom or do whatever no bathroom

don't go to any bathroom please I'm crying I'm thinking about I don't know the reboot of Finding Nemo it is concerning could he really find Dory after all I'm thinking about, I don't know, the reboot of Finding Nemo.

It is concerning. Couldn't really find Dory after all. Is Michigan better for masks, by the way, or is it worse than California? I mean, LA is its own thing, I guess. It depends on the area. 99% of people don't wear them anymore. They've given up. I remember going to Florida. i want to say this was for creator clash last year maybe that was why i was in florida i like took an uber to my hotel and i

had my um mask on and i got an uber and they were like you don't need that here that happened a couple weeks ago in new york i i was like okay, this is going to be such an embarrassing story. I had my AirPods in and I had a mask on and I think I was like mouth breathing on accident. I was like, listen to the music. He was like, you know you can take that off, right? You're breathing kind of loud. I'm like, okay. He was like, you don't need it anymore.

You don't know my lungs. Like, chill. Also, you don't know me. Like, I could be very ugly y'all might not have a lower half of my face yeah my breath could stink

yeah that's true there's a in the when I was back in the UK over COVID I was with my mum during like basically through COVID

and we found a place we could stay because we both didn't live in the uk prior to that and uh we moved in it was near my hometown and and they're very well intentioned but like get out style leftist you know what i mean like uh leftist to a certain point of comfort with uh leftist with a 200k plus salary or it's like something's gone wrong um just found out about tax at 40 years old well my estate uh they when the skepticism started to happen the emphasis

on skepticism you weren't allowed to be a denier because that had like bad connotations but you could just be like well i just i just don't think it's as severe. None of the 40 people I know died from it, you know, that live in this town. And I would go back and forth to see my mom. At one point, she was in hospital. And so I would take a taxi or the bus every single day. And either another passenger, and people in the UK do not talk to each other on public transport. It is insane that that

would ever ever happen and every single day somebody would ask why i'm wearing it which is a weird way to phrase it because like well you know why you can like think it's odd or maybe it's time to move yeah you're like i have the last of us disease yeah i'm fungal yeah i'm actually my little like fungus has come out of my mouth so yeah yeah so you don't want to see what's below here hey why are you wearing that there's a study going around on twitter it's like making its rounds about how um it's basically kind of like pushing people to get covid they're like well if you get covid i'll explain it to you if you get COVID, if you get it a second time,

you're like, I think it was like 89% less likely to die or be hospitalized. But guess how you can replicate that? Not getting COVID. The vaccine. Oh. It's crazy because like the vaccine is like a little tiny COVID. It's like a little COVID DLC that you like put in your body

and then you get firmware for it. I want the full one yeah I want the deluxe package I want full COVID I want a raw dog COVID actually yeah dude yeah

have you had it before I had it once I was ahead of the curve I got it like March 2020 me too I thought I was gonna fucking die like pre-vaccine

and I got it it was when I was I didn't have like a place to say it so I was staying in a hotel and it was moments before official lockdown was released, basically. Oh, wow. North of England, near the family I had up there.

But I couldn't go and stay with them because I was sick as a dog, and we were now like, okay, how real is this thing? This is right. What's the name of it? Which number is it? But also people that seem to be dying. Uh-oh. So I just stayed in this hotel for like four days,

in a fugue state watching clips from the show monk tony shalhoub saved my damn life episode only only clips too confusing to watch a full episode but seeing a bit where he has to like wash his hands and that's that's like me for real yeah damn you're singing the birthday song and everything it's straight up dude it i just thought i was gonna die die. Yeah. I was like, oh, this isn't a flu. This is the end. This is consumption from like Moulin Rouge. So they wouldn't test me.

So I don't know if I was, they wouldn't test me. No, but my blood. So there was something called like a D-dimer in your blood, which indicates clotting. And that was a symptom of COVID. They thought I had clotting in my lungs.

I was fine. Did they test you for anything else? No, they wouldn't test me. So I called my mom, who's a nurse. I lived in Baltimore at the time. Right. And I FaceTimed my mom, and she's like, test her for COVID.

They're like, we're not testing her. She was like, this is literally a fucking symptom of COVID. Like, test her. Like, no, we're not testing her. We're sending her home. They wanted to give me an Ativan because they thought I was also

having an asthma attack, but I drove. And I was like, it's not this. this I'm like I know what like anxiety I'm anxiety I know what anxiety is this is not like anxiety that really does feel like that feels like when um like in the like 1500s it'd be like she just has the vapors or whatever it's hysteria like yeah these women they'd be so crazy I don't know take an aspir, they'd be so crazy. I don't know, take an aspirin and relax. Or here's some, I don't know, alcohol.

Here's some leeches for the bad humors. Yeah. I was just like, what the fuck? I literally felt like I was going to fucking die. Wait, what is the,

don't they do, don't they do something if you have clotting in your lungs? Oh, it's just clotting. Oh, no, you're fine. Oh, it's a heart attack. It's fine.

You can just actually go. Oh, it's necrosis. I did develop, like, long-term, like, health issues. I had long attack. It's fine. You can just actually go. Oh, it's necrosis. I did develop like long-term like health issues. I had long COVID. I'm fine now. Like I was like one level away from emphysema, which is something you get for smoking like years. And then I had, I was like borderline having a heart attack.

My heart rate would not go down. It was like 165. Oh my God. For how long? It happened like one time. I went to the ER. The it was like 165 for how long it happened like one time i went to the er the doctor was like what the fuck like i was stop it i walked into the urgent care i was like yeah like i was like i can feel my heart racing and i sat down like okay they put the thing on my finger like get to the back they're like you gotta lay down and i was like i was like can i just go it's like you have to go in an ambulance you're literally about to have a heart attack i was like what the fuck like i didn't think it was like

serious i was just like driving i was like oh i could kind of like feel my heartbeat i'm nervous i don't like the doctor um yeah syndrome yeah and then i went to when i got to the er that's when i knew it was serious because the doctor was like why the fuck isn't she stabbed i'm like i'm like i literally feel and i called my mom i'm like yo like this is a lot more serious and like i thought that's crazy because i i got coveted after getting i think the first booster and i was fine like i i had like a mild cold and so now whenever i get a cold because i had a cold a couple weeks ago i'm like this is basically what it was like for me to have covet so do i have covet again um but now i keep getting i keep getting boosted i keep getting the updates the um the firmware updates oh yeah my entire family had covid like recently except me i was how many people in the

house uh so my mom my two sisters and my brother got it my my niece got it my grandparents got it like i don't know how i dodged it my dad got it damn but it was the emphysema it like made you stronger I'm so fucking glad my lungs are like

normal now like that shit was the worst did your family have it really bad is that like a thing no cause I lived away for like in

so I was alone damn but the COVID emergency declaration's ending so like the free vaccines are ending free testing oh, the free treatment.

Like that's all gone. You know, you were talking about how you knew we were fucked earlier. I knew we were fucked because I think it was maybe the third booster came out and it was free. And I like went in and got my like flu vaccine and also got a new booster. And then I found out that like no one was getting they were free and like nobody was getting it there was like no line there was no anything it was just it was accessible everywhere and no one was concerned and i was like oh okay i think the rates for like the booster now is like it's so low i don't want to give a number because i don't want to be wrong

but it's like less than 20%, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I do think there's a fourth one that I need to get. Yeah. I didn't get that one yet. I was going to get, I think fourth. I didn't get the fourth one yet. I was going to get it before TwitchCon, but they ran out and I just never rebooked it.

I believe it is because of my specific visa status because I stay, obviously, such long extended periods of time here. But I need a NHS in my apple wallet nhs approval of boosters as required because the uk also has like timelines for certain events still which is why people get it because it's like i i can't go see coldplay well fuck it i need to hear bad music yeah i got him finally actually you fucking roasted coldplay's ass. There is... I'm supposed to have...

At the speed of sound. I'm supposed to have certain updates. Is that a Coldplay song? You know... And they let me in anyway. I just didn't have the booster. Why the fuck did Coldplay play with Beyonce at the fucking Super Bowl? I saw a clip of that like the other day.

I was like, when the fuck did that happen? Fever Dream. Fever Dream. Yeah. Hell yeah. Okay, wait. Maybe this is the time to bring it up. Frogan, I'm beefing with you.

Jesus. We're beefing about when we were Youngfest. Oh, the millennial lineup? Yeah, that's me. I'm the millennial. I'll just say, you know, as we find this, I want to say thank you to everyone that has started writing down the timestamps

of when we changed the way that we're sitting. Yeah. Because that has already begun. I want to give a specific shout out, Jacob. I don't know if you've been tracking that as well. I'm not going to lie. I saw you shift and I was like, somebody's going to time i'm ready now which jordan sitting pose are you let us know in the comments down below what's according to the comments what's the most bisexual way of sitting down yeah it seems a lot of feedback um yeah today i'm keeping

my feet on the floor and that's never felt more... I've never been more straight and sad. Welcome to Sad Boys, a show about formal greetings. Imposture. About the maintenance of your lumbar. Yeah, that's true. I brought a foam roller for everyone here today. Okay, so when we were young, fest. I guess it's fest?

When we were young, show I guess it's fest when we were young show. Fest. Fest, yeah. So last year, they announced a concert. It was originally going to be a one-day event. And the set list, set list, the guest list, the. Lineup. Lineup.

Lineup. Ding, ding, ding. That was a test. The lineup was insane. And everybody. Ding, ding, ding. That was a test. The lineup was insane. And everybody was like, this feels fake. Yeah. It's like, it was like My Chemical Romance. I got it right here.

It was like My Chemical Romance, Paramore, Avril Lavigne. It brought boys and girls out of hiding. The All-American Ajax was one of my two favorite. Taking Back Sunday was there. Dashboard Confessional. The Used? Oh, that's wild. Yeah, dashboard confessional the used oh yeah it was a big yeah it was a big um for for for an era of you know this was i was fucking with all this um for much of my life um and i wanted to go and then i got nervous i saw people tweeting about how like it was going to be a disaster me too and then i didn't go so disaster in about how like it was going to be a disaster. Me too.

And then I didn't go. Disaster in what sense? Because it was like, there's no way. It's a 12 hour festival. Yeah. With all those people. And people were like, well,

some of the bands didn't even know they were playing it and they said that. So a lot of people were skeptical. And then the time came. It was a three day festival. First, it got canceled because of the winds and everyone's

like oh this is gonna be a fucking disaster like it was a scam so you told you fire fest the second and third days though and the second day and then the third day was like the next weekend second day went smoothly i literally considered booking a flight to fucking vegas i was like i can't miss this yeah i heard it was awesome and that sucks because now i got i missed it and so they just announced the new one. And the lineup is different. I think it's all different bands. Pierce and Bale's on there again.

Oh, okay. But, oh, 303 was in there. And this year, you know, Frogan tweeted. Let's see. Frogan tweeted, the lineup this year is absolute dog shit compared to last year and look that's okay for you to feel but i personally i wouldn't say dog shit i because i saw i saw this and i was like oh i fuck with like like in here i'm like okay well i was a weird green day head when i was in middle school, so I fuck with Green Day.

You've taken a bold swing, Frogan, I will tell you. I fuck with Blink-182. I a little bit fuck with Yellow Card. I very ironically, not ironically, fuck with Simple Plan. I very ironically, not ironically, fuck with Bowling for Soup in a weird way. I was weirdly into Bowling for Soup. Rise against and do some damage.

Thrice is a very funny inclusion. Thrice is funny. Gym Class Heroes I think Gym Class Heroes is first album is so fucking good. And

What's the biggest L on here for you? Yeah what's the biggest L? So I used to love All Time Low but they have they have allegations

like I've literally seen All Time Low 21 times. Like I used to like go to every single like Midwest show so like had I gone I would have loved

like all time low yeah are you going no I mean I thought about it but like I don't like love anybody

yeah I know it's also tough with concerts I think if I I feel like I need some friends to like make an event of it and then we need to like

spend too much money to get a comfortable experience. It's the same weekend as TwitchCon too. Oh, yeah. I know the recs. Michelle Branch? What is Michelle Branch doing in here? She's just attending.

Yeah. Oh, I do love Waterparkster. Shout out to Less Than Jake from my hometown of Gainesville, Florida. Really? Yeah. This is before my time. Yeah, this is a little bit millennial core.

Like you got Newfound Glory in here. They're older. You got Sum 41 in here. We're not that different in age. I know. So I felt a little bit called out. 30 Seconds to Mars, they're going to get Jared Leto in this piece. Five Seconds of Summer, I think, still has a very big stand.

Oh, they do. Like following. Is Jared Leto going to, or does he have a replacement? Like a genuinely. Five Seconds of Summer I think still has a very big stand like following is Jared Leto gonna or does he have a replacement like a genuinely that's a good question but I do think it's also just very small I saw

the Joker be so small I saw a video essay about how like 30 Seconds of Mars has like a weird like cult thing I saw that too allegedly come on the show the Jokeroker i remember i saw the academy is uh when i was at 18 years old with uh this band the cab which is not together but if they were playing that i would actually consider it i don't see them on here or anything um yeah i'm more into like the new age like rock like pop punk

are you listening to any like brand new like what is the state of pop punk these days so i am uh i like this band called bearings they're yeah they're canadian and i found out about them at a concert last year they're opening for one of my favorite bands like grayscale they're kind of like i want to consider grayscale pop punk actually not like the midwest like pop got it uh they're really good too and i feel like pop punk is like he kind of dying oh i i feel like it's been dead yeah it's like a lot of them are like shifting out of that sound yeah because i because like i would listen to i still like I still bump all of the fucking... I was like, we got some Fall Out Boy records over here.

We got some old Panic, Rest in Peace. When Ryan Ross left, that's when everything went downhill. Oh my God. Okay, so when I saw that Brendan Urie announced the breakup of Panic, I laughed, but then I read the statement and I cried. I'm like, damn, this shit's over. No more fucking 20-year anniversary of Peabree Kids without then I read the statement and I cried. I'm like, damn, like this shit's over. Like no more fucking like 20 year anniversary of February Kids

without Tor. What the fuck? I know. What bothered me though, more importantly, was he had some like allegations. Yeah. And I was like,

he's a security guard. And the hit rate on Pumpkin Pass is bad. It really is because like a lot of them were like low-key pedophiles on Warped Tour. Oh yeah.

Yeah. I'm like, just nothing, you know, knock on wood, happened to Fall Out Boy. You know, get well soon, Joe. You know, I helped Patrick Stunt before. What? Let me see if I can find it. So I. Also, Pete Wentz is black.

Everybody remember that? Pete Wentz told me I could get into medical school. And he actually called me weird before, too. What? Because I was a fucking weirdo. I really. And he was right. Pete Wentz told me I could get into medical school and he actually called me weird before too what cause I I was a fucking weirdo I really and he was right

so I was on Stan Twitter when I was growing up like I loved like YouTubers I was like a Dan and Phil bitch I loved Big Time Rush um

bands Fall Out Boy Panic All Time Low yeah and I made like socks I made half of it was like

Pete Wentz's face emo and half of it was like pete wins his face emo and half of it was like his regular face i don't want to tell you socks are the entrance point for pop punk merch sad boys idea half of your face on one half of your face on the other dude you put them together yeah like a medallion i feel like we'll do some cool we'll do some cool merch i just um this is hearkening back to a conversation we're having about jargon and like turns of phrase and stuff from industry i was in a meeting with a new merch partner working on some like a merch drop because i can't say anything about and uh and i said the phrase they showed me a website mock-up and i was like i have some questions later about the checkout flow, but blah, blah, blah, blah.

And they were like, you're the first person we've ever worked with to say the phrase checkout flow. And I was like, well, I'm probably the first person who used to work in your industry. Oh, that's fun. This is so precious. I was 17 years. It was like nine years ago at this point. This is so precious. I was 17 years... Shit, it was like nine years ago at this point. This is so precious. That new profile pic.

That's actually so awesome. Mine, I mean. New profile pic. I... Would you be pissed if I got the username Frogan without the zero? I would be so mad. That would be a rule.

Wait, best Fall Out Boy album. Folly? I was... I thought no one one i would never hear anybody say that i think i think i agree with you but i feel like the common answer is infinity on high and i felt that way for a long time but as time has gone on i have gone back to folia duh and it is kind of just straight bangers it's a skipless album i can listen to that album on your feet not skip any fucking song yeah with infinity i'm just like there it's it's a great i think i played them out i think i play i played the song so much that like i know them all front

to back but for some reason they don't have the same like if they ever came on i would be like like geeked but i still like in my car will be like i need to listen to foley dude have you listened to mania their album mania is the worst shit i've ever heard in my entire life i you know i was trying to like um exposure therapy myself into like the the weird like edm fusion sound fallaway i'm excited about their new album because it feels like it's a little bit more balanced into something that i can like get behind there's a few wait hold on the new songs have been young and menace that song literally that was my final straw really i kind of that's i that's the furthest i got on to um that's the furthest i got into the exposure therapy i think i listened to it like a hundred times on like a

plane ride and i was like you know what i fuck with this but like the young and a menace sorry i lost my voice yesterday at karaoke when i got to the chorus of it i'm just like what the fuck is this because it's like i felt like all the bands i listened to for like that rock sound, like lost it. Yeah. And I was like, there's so many, I think that song, and this is so inside baseball,

who is this for? But the, um, there's pieces of that song that I feel like I have flashes of something I would be into, you know? Cause like, there's the like, we've gone way too far.

I'm like, okay, okay. I mean, I'm into this, but then it like kind of swells to this like arena rock like edm like thing where it has a drop i'm like i don't need a drop in a fallout boy song you broke up because she changed and then you get back together a few years later like oh you're still different yeah this is the problems of the same are you seeing them

uh i actually one of my friends texted me and was like, we should get tickets and I haven't done it yet. But I might try. You should. I think I will. I think I wrote it down in my notes of something I need to do.

Oh, there's also Sad Summer Fest. What's that? The dog's down. Hell yeah. So this year, it's basically the Warped Tour replacement since Warped Tour is dead This year it's Take It Back Sunday

The main The main Motion City soundtrack They're on the They're on the lineup For We Were Young Fest Paris Mom Jeans

Mom Jeans is like Chicago Pop punk But in the summer My fucking concert I'm seeing Big Time Rush Like three times in one week That's

In one week? Are you traveling? Michigan, Michigan, Ohio. Damn. I've loved them ever since I was 12 years old. You ever picked them up? No. I feel like I've been a Paramore fan for a very long time.

You seen that music video that Jeremy made? No. It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen i do love paramore though um i want to do their they did they do a cruise parahoy yeah and i want to go parahoy yeah fuck yeah it's like it's like concerts like every night uh and like with different set lists and stuff and i've watched like bootleg recordings of it. And it's so sick. Yachts and cruises to me seem like they're only in movies. Yeah. When you hear about like a Disney cruise.

And you like live with Mickey for a while. That's so funny. Dude, imagine if Twitch did like a cruise. Instead of like TwitchCon. But it's mascots dressed up like you. It's not really. I can intro to like pop punk was uh when i was in middle school band i guess green day i've liked since i was 12 um when i was in middle school band this guy malachi he burned me like i think green day had nine albums at that point and he like burned me all of them um on and then i would i put them in my computer and i went into this is millennial core by the way this is like asmr um millennial tunes right now so so pov pov you just you just got home

from middle school and your friend burned you some CDs. So you put them into your Pentium 2 processor computer and you load up iTunes and using the Grace Note song database, it identifies what the album is. And then you sync it onto your iPod, your ipod video that came out in 2005 and the box had like u2 on the um like a youtube music video on on it while you're doing that uh he's playing newgrounds games and is like really bad at them and you're frustrated because you need to get involved yeah you're going to bed and you're like i'm gonna listen to jesus of suburb, the greatest song ever written. It's a nine minute rock ballad opera perfection. I was so, it was in retrospect, kind of embarrassing how much I would listen to American Idiot and be like, hell yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, I, yep. Me too, dude. That is my cultural experience.

Dude, Suburbia, we got that. that i would imagine somewhere i used to ask my mom to burn me so many cds when i was younger she taught me how to do it and i was like eight years old that's funny i said and i used to like burn cds for literally everybody in my class too because i was the only one that knew how to do it yeah someone's got it someone someone had limewire and a cd burner and you just like bring them and you would get those um spools or whatever of fucking oh yeah of cdr discs or maybe you would have cdrw discs which were rewritable oh dude next level yeah the amount of the amount of calories burned on just moving media around just giving like hey do you want to see this movie we can watch it in four days

because i need to wait till school's over for the week go to the mall wait for my allowance buy the physical thing i need for me and then spend an afternoon getting it ready for you and then i can bring it over and it is mostly a shaky cam with a guy standing up and getting in the way of the camera so you can watch like the mask of zorro in 240p and it cuts off before the end do you like what is what was your first experience with piracy because i remember um i got limewire and i didn't use it much because i had dial-up which which is another millennial core thing. I had dial-up and it took me like an hour, but I got home from school one day and I downloaded the song, But It's Better If You Do by Panic! at the Disco. Yeah.

And I listened to it and I was like, this is the greatest song I've ever heard in my life. I've never heard these sounds in this way before i just something special is happening right now and then i was convinced they were like the most talented best band in the world and i kind of stand by it rest in peace except for brand years kind of sucks you know ryan ross actually started a band again pre-covid they toured the west coast and then they were doing like a thing where like, if you reach like X amount of donations,

they'd come to your city. And then the COVID happened and then they fucking died. Well, the tour died, not the... No, the band died too. Like, I don't think they do anything anymore. Oh, no. I know, but like you said, the COVID happened and then they all died. And I was like, holy shit.

Why do they only tell this to health experts? I feel like we should have been told. What was your first experience sailing the seas? I've never pirated anything. I don't do... You know the feds are watching. You're like, I've never broken the law. I don't do illegal activity.

I was too busy not jaywalking. My favorite hobby. Following the rules of the road. I definitely didn't download the All-American Rejects growing up. So I got into them when I was seven. You started early.

I did. My mom. My mom was into Fall Boy Panic. Oh, what? Shout out to mom, dude. That's sick. She got me into all the music I listened to. I still do concerts with her too, but then now I'm just like going alone. Yeah. Going with friends.

You're cramping my style now, mom. Jordan, I want to hear about your first piracy because we're all admitting our crimes today. But I want to first say it was clear that Brendan Urie was the problem when it was always new members of the band around him. And it was like, oh, it seems like he just is tough to work with, maybe. One of the basses, Dallin. Dallin Weeks? He left because he bullied him for being Mormon.

Oh, I heard about that. That's kind of funny. Yeah, I heard he's just a mean guy. So I met Brendan Urie before. Yeah. And I met, it was like the whole band and i was like they're like introducing themselves everyone's like who gives a shit about him like he doesn't matter like dennis told me that about like one of the other band members i forget his name oh wow i was

like okay like so there's this band the cab that was discovered by um like i think that they gave spencer smith or something their demo at a show. And then they got signed to Decadence Records and stuff. And so they had this song with Patrick Stump and Brendan Urie, which is a hot firebanger called One of Those Nights. It's so sick. And I saw them. Why am I telling the story? And there's no reason for it.? And there's no reason for it.

No, there's no reason for that. Never mind. You didn't steal anything, I guess. You pirated their album. Oh, they had a guitarist who was like way too talented to be in a pop punk band. But then he later toured with Panic at the Disco. And I was like, oh, okay. name is ian something with an s i dubs damn wow too talented well all right jordan what was your first piracy

i don't even know if it was maybe it might have been piracy, but I was really, for some reason, obsessed with watching a double feature of The Matrix Reloaded, had not seen the original, and then the Mel Gibson rom-com, What Women Want. Are either of you familiar with What Women Want? It's one of the most awful, worst things. It's a movie about

mel gibson who drops a toaster oh no a hair curler some kind of electric cosmetic tool because he's a marketing executive and he's come very misogynistic guy somehow mel gibson was able to get into that mindset he's a method uh, he's been being that way his entire life and afterwards for the role of Jimmy Blimmy, whatever his name is. He's a marketing executive because it's a movie

from the 90s or early 2000s. He has a meeting with the Japanese or something. You know, that thing they always do. And he can't get into the mindset of a woman. I need, I've got to market these things,

but I can't. Women are crazy or whatever whatever and he is testing out all of the the products they now have to sell at home including uh maybe an electric shaver something and then actually drops in the bath because he's also trying at a bath bomb or whatever through this basically dying just having a cartoon electricity like you know home alone style you see a skeleton that he dies he just i guess because it's products marketed to women he gains the ability to read women's minds and what the fuck the this entire premise seems like it would be set up for wow you thought women were so two-dimensional

and you were so misogynistic, but now you understand the dimensions. But the whole movie he walks around and all he hears is like, my period for the whole movie. I miss my handbag. It's so sexist. And he's right in the What Women what women want universe he's like women are

so vapid and then he's correct and then he just uses it to sleep with like a woman he knows it's like the end of groundhog day he's like you did it you slept with this woman good that's nice good the moral story was you gotta get powers to get laid and And then I think he has them forever, so he just spends the rest of his life hearing his significant other's thoughts. Well, Frogan, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. This is fun. Oh, I'm glad. I mean, you're welcome back anytime. Is there anything

that you're up to that you want to let the people know about? Voting for the stream rewards, perhaps? Yes, so I am nominated for the Rising Star Award at the streamer awards this year i think voting ends march 6th or 4th yeah it's time um before then so yeah vote for me um url on screen i i can't lose two years in a row yeah he's so fucking embarrassed please let please let please don't make me let this happen regular dicaprio

i'm gonna be j Jake Gyllenhaal, fucking nominated and losing every fucking time. So we end every episode of Sad Boys with a particular phrase. We love you. And we're sorry. Boom! Gucci girl, Gucci girl

How you doing, how you moving, girl? Moving, girl, how she delicate That future girl, future girl Yeah, that future, girl. Future, girl. Yeah, we on now. Take my money, go away. All you wanted. Future, girl. Girl, you too rich for me.