Sad Boyz - Unsolicited Advice (w/ Nathan Stanz)

Episode Date: August 1, 2020

Our friend Nathan "OneNightStanz" Stanz joins us to give unsolicited advice to our audience, but its mostly us just giving advice to Nate.   Watch Us https://twitch.tv/sadboyzpod https://youtube.com/sadboyzpod   Follow Us https://twitch.tv/sadboyzpod https://instagram.com/sadboyzpod https://twitter.com/sadboyzpod  

Welcome to Sad Boys, a podcast about feelings and other things also. I'm Jarvis. And I'm Jordan. And Nate, you give it a shot. I'm, I'm, oh God, no. Oh, oh, oh, it's baby's, baby's first podcast. Yeah, Jordan has this thing where he just like takes the wind out of our guest sales at all times. I'm Nathan Stantz. Yeah, Jordan has this thing where he just takes the wind out of our guest sales at all times. I'm Nathan Stans. Yeah, fuck. We are joined today by a very special guest, Nathan One Night Stans Stans of Gen.G Gaming,

of the Esportsmanlike podcast, and just a general good boy. Oh, actually, hey, can we cut that? Esportsmanlike conduct hasn't recorded an episode in four weeks. My chat is mad. Our fans are mad. If we say that,'s just some there's some anger in the we can't even mention the word according to the twitter it's on the way right new graphic designer uh we like to tweet that every week or so to keep them strung along uh we have people join every single day and say like hey man is is itunes like broke like obviously you're still uploading the

podcast because you're interacting with us in Discord and social media. Is iTunes broken? That has to be it. See, what's funny is that Jordan and I can't relate as we did not string our audience along for a full calendar year before we released our podcast. That's why I'm here.

I believe you guys. I mean, if you want tips on consistency, check out the ARK's feed. That's funny. But you know what's funny is that our audience was pretty understanding and i think that's because of the nature of the show and so we didn't we did get a lot of like hey um you know whenever it's okay for you and you feel like you're up to it maybe uh maybe record the podcast again it's like no want to, we want to. It's just like a lot of moving parts

and a lot of schedules. I do like the idea of framing it as a favor. A fan base of empaths, says Aaron in the chat, which is a wonderful way of saying it. Today, we're streaming this live on twitch.tv slash sadvoicepod. And we're also here to answer audience questions and give advice that we're not qualified in any way to give. I like to have very staunch points when I give advice. So this is going to work. Yeah.

That's just it. That's the only area where you take staunch points. The world is black and white. There's no gray area to speak of. And your word is law. Yeah. What if all of the questions. Lock her up.

I've been screaming it what if every question is just about opinions on movies that you hate uh that will pop the fuck off uh i i'd be scared to because i think that like my audience knows me and knows what i hate and they're like oh that stands what's he doing i feel like if i gave my opinions to people who didn't know me they would think i'm a fucking idiot right yeah you do there's a certain amount of investment that an audience has to give before they don't immediately leave you after hearing your first controversial what's been the spiciest take to date which is the one that you so for context uh nate hates a lot of very popular movies usually movies starring people of color and you've shared a few of them but i don't know what not true most you've actually made a career out of it it's like uh

it's like the flow chart is like does it star a person of color in which case definitely throw it in the dumpster yeah you tell you what honestly though mate you could make a lot of money doing that it's true we'd go full ben shapiro and just like have so much success you in particular it's true we'd go full Ben Shapiro and just do like so much success you in particular it's a funny thing that happens to comedians where they're like well I'm not funny so I guess I'll just

be alright cancel culture we all have they're canceling me the reason I'm not successful I have had to go on so many diatribes in my chat

because you guys probably know but there's been like a bit of a me too movement in the gaming community specifically in the fighting game community lately.

Yes, yes, yes. And I feel like I have to start every stream with like, no, this is good. Like don't support these people. There's no, I have banned maybe 230 anime profile pictures on Twitter. When I see one of these Me Tours, these predators tweet,

and then these people be like, well, this isn't that bad. Like this should be a legal issue. Innocent until proven guilty. Am I right? And I just have to sit there and ban them. And there's,'s cathartic but i feel worse at the end it's like eating a big bowl of ice cream you know like it feels good and it feels bad so a couple things one i want to ask you both how your weeks are going two before we get into advice and stuff i do want to talk

about some of this drama specifically the sky williams stuff crazy uh because that shit is just there's been so much drama a lot of it is like harrowing a lot of it's like you know victims sharing their stories and then recently there's been some stuff that's like well let me tell you about the buck wild shit that was going on that nobody knew about that's not even like harassment related it's just this sociopath stole a bunch of money from a lot of people and is still at large. In crazy ways. It'd be fine if he was just like, no, you have to like pay me rent. He's like, you don't have to pay me rent, but I will break all your stuff if you don't listen to every word I say. Okay, yeah.

So let's not get ahead of ourselves. I do want, we are going to talk about this. So, but first I wanted to just ask, Stans, how's your week been? It's been... It's been... Emotions. Yeah, sorry. I've been creating a Barenaked Ladies cover band. And that was my intro.

And you stole my thunder. Oh, okay. No, I have been having a bit of an existential crisis on stream for the past seven days. Oh, tell me about it. This is our existential crisis is being streamed live. Yeah, yeah. It's very healthy. It's like a form of therapy for me where I just turn on the stream and I go, Oh, tell me about it. This is our existential crisis is being streamed live. It's very healthy. It's like a form of therapy for me where I just turn on the stream and I go, hey guys, you know, I've been really sad lately. And then I kind of just like throw spaghetti at the fridge. Like, I think I'm sad because this, and maybe it's this, and maybe it's this. And

they have to listen because they're watching. Like they can leave, but they don't. It's so weird. And I feel bad about that too. And I'm in this cycle of weird feelings. Well, I think it's cool to have a platform where the audience can validate, like where you can just like say how you're feeling because there's a toxic side of this. You know, there's been a lot of stuff happening in gaming and specifically with streaming where there's been toxic fan bases that have not, where a streamer tries to share what they're going through and an audience of people who like haven't developed empathy yet are unable just play games yeah just play games why are you like stop being such a pussy bro like just fucking 360 no scope please and that's that's shitty so i do think it's cool to be cultivating

a space where you can be that open and kind of normalize it too because i i think this is a time when we're all we're not all all right because like shit's fucked every and not also not doing it to like exclusion if you did one day just say okay vlog channel now and this is going to be my focus because this is what i want to talk about instead it's just please don't leak you're making yourself a three-dimensional person instead which just means that all the people that already like you are seeing that that's they're not independent of you doing the things that they like it's kind of in the same vibe for you Jarvis I mean I know once we jump back into sad boys there are a big chunk of people that are like oh my god he's alive I know he has opinions about things that aren't

animated stories or life hacks yeah Jordan how are you doing how's your week been how is Adam Brody as well he He's all good. This is Nate Stantz. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. No, that makes sense, actually. He does look a lot like you. He's just talented.

Oh, yeah. He's talking to Brody right now, not me. Stantz, do we have the same microphone and the same microphone stand? Yeah, I'm sure this is the standard content creator. I like, Jordan knows this about me, buying things things it makes me feel like i am progressing through life in a way that is satisfactory to what other people do i'm like the nuclear family okay gotta have a house i'm gonna do this and gotta buy the microphone you gotta do this so yeah i've got the sm7b the

road shock mount i've got the cloud lifter i've got the focus right going we've got i've got all those things i've got audition i got yeah good shit i just wanted to just solidarity you know i felt weird buying this road shock mount with my fucking sennheiser uh or my shore my shore mic so thanks for being an ally bud yeah yeah please buy things let's get the economy but jordan how is your week going we interrupted you yeah fuck your week jordan yeah well that's sort of what i was thinking as well uh that's been a sentiment a lot this week we've been doing a lot of sad boy stuff and a lot of creative stuff which always makes me feel better makes me feel like i can be agent but i'll be honest with you the time difference is beginning to kill me it's been six months now i had my visa looked promising visa was not taken away but the use the fact that you can use that was kind of

thrown away don't get me wrong kind of happy to be here compared to what you boys are going through over there but jesus the fact that everybody wakes up so late and that if i wanted to play a game with somebody or even just have a decent chat with them during a work day means i'm staying up till like 5 a.m is just screwing with my sleep schedule something crazy but on the other side of things i'm getting pretty settled i decided to stop compromising on like who knows when i can get my lights from the storage space so we just got a new set of lights nate you know this about me but i like buying things hey let's go am i right lads and i like like an actual desk space i started using the routines i used to i don't know i'm

feeling a lot more human and at the same time, a lot less consistent. My fingers are crossed that this is like the first of many weeks of being a little bit more, a little bit more patent. But before this, it's been a bit of a wild ride. This is fun. Yeah. This has been a cool thing that we've got going on and it's helping me, you know, feel alive. Yeah. It's almost like seeing people. Yeah. And it's almost like, it's almost like going live, Yeah, and it's almost like going live. This should be good, right? Thanks for asking, everyone. My week has been chill.

I, you know, just trying to be a big shot, be an internet, you know, juggernaut of sorts. Nate, do you have any tips? Yeah, I've heard a lot about this algorithm. Oh, yeah. I'm trying to learn more about it. It's, what do they call the people who look at stock charts and try and pretend it means something? Technical analysis. That's how I feel about people who more about it. It's what, what do they call the people who look at stock charts and try and pretend it

means something? Technical analysis. That's how I feel about people. I try to pretend it means something. I, I know a lot about the YouTube algorithm and it doesn't like, there's only so much you can learn where it, where it helps. Like, because there is a degree to which, at which you have to know things about your own goals.

It's like, I could give anyone else advice all the live long day about their channel. It's hard to give myself advice because I don't know what I want. So it's like there's a larger question behind that. But if you ever want to talk about the YouTube algorithm, I do, I am not certified to talk about it, but YouTube lets me talk about it with them on stage at VidCon.

So yeah, you- Now we're talking. You dropped out of medical school before you became certified, right? That's true, yeah, yeah, yeah. But smarter than those doctors. Yeah, oh my God. Don't believe them.

They tell me to wear a mask and they're right. You're sort of a holistic YouTube algorithm kind of guy, right? Eastern algorithms. I'm in, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm really into the Eastern stuff, yeah. Like I light a lot of incense and that helps with the click-through rates.

Let me write that down. Yeah. Cool. So I'm just going to take a hard left turn into some of this ridiculous- Let's do it. Gaming drama. So because it's racking, like I am losing my mind. So where do I start? Smash houses, the concept of them. So in the world of Smash Brothers, the Nintendo character fighting game, there's a competitive scene and there's a lot of people who, because there's basically no money in the scene, a lot of people who get together, almost living on top of one another in houses so that they can be playing with top talent all the time and there is this guy who ran what seems like

three smash houses slash mansions or four he kind of like upgraded them over time and just so chat understands super smash brothers melee is not a game that can be played online until recently until and so they kind of had to either go to conventions or houses or mini tournaments or basements or arcades to play it together and so it makes a little bit more sense that these top players if they want to get better it's an extremely engaged community to the degree where like many people have built an identity around it yeah so the idea of staying with all of those people in that house it's not like you know random nba stars all staying in a house it is the smash community it kind of adds up yeah and so oh we should mention this guy is also independent of this just kind of a personality

in the smash scene yeah well he's like this dude sky williams he's like a personality in the smash scene he's a youtuber he like i think he played like league of legends or something where he's like he used to make like silly videos like not only parody songs but like uh like the kind of screaming youtuber that you would kind of get like oh i'm very frustrated about this thing that happened in my game and i'm gonna yell and people really liked him for a couple of years. Yeah. And so how, like, we'll become clear later, but somehow he amassed like these houses and he was having like tons of people living in them way more than. Yeah. Between 20 to 30. Between 20 to 30 people living in these houses, like on top of one another, not all of them are paying rent. And

some of the like top talent of the top talent in the game at various points were living in these houses. And it came out recently due to some allegations of some shady shit that went down in the houses, how the houses operated. And I've been reading Twitlonger upon Twitlonger about how this man would run these smash houses, where he's essentially the king of the home and the rules are like, don't wake him up and don't walk in his room without announcing yourself or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not allowed to go in his room.

You're not allowed to wake him up before noon. There's arbitrary punishments for all these things. Leave the room backwards while still bowing. Yeah, definitely. My yeah definitely my lady my lady and then they like there are these leaked conversations like leaked facebook chats from his housemates where he's talking about how because like i i don't even know what the inciting incident was but it was like someone got something dirty or didn't clean up something or whatever didn't clean up the kitchen the kitchen must be cleaned every night that is his yeah The kitchen must be cleaned every night. That is his thing. Yeah. The kitchen must be cleaned every night. And then he was like,

because no one is owning up to not cleaning, I'm going to come and I'm going to break something in everyone's room. Oh my God. I missed this part. Yeah. I will go into your room, find your like most prized possession and I will break it unless $300 cash, no Venmo is left on my nightstand by tomorrow morning. Like Hunger Games style. He says, like, I wish you the best of luck. Yeah, yeah. He like really does. It seems like he gets off on like treating people like that.

It's like social jigsaw. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Really? Oh, it's bad. It's absurd because like all of his correspondence that is leaked is like he sees himself like a jigsaw or like a joker type where uh you know like a minor who was a victim inside of his home shared their story and then when he found out about it his response to somebody was like i'm gonna spirit bomb that girl and it's like all right don't

co-opt my beloved dragon ball z for your sociopathic bullshit but and then people started posting about the debt he's in. Cause like there was another like unspoken rule of the house where it was like, don't lend Sky money. And, and one guy- Only pay him when you haven't cleaned the kitchen. And it was like, you won't, you won't get your money back. One guy posted a TwitLonger where he's like, Sky owes me $55,000.

And then it just, and then it fucking cascades. And so many people- And it was it was like okay well it's like wait question how why what and so he owes him fifty five thousand dollars because this guy apparently wasn't even in the scene the same way anymore and he got this sob story from sky about how his father had cancer and then he was like playing on the fact that he knew that this dude had like had cancer sort of in his family or it had some loss related to that. And so he was emotionally like essentially manipulated by this. And then he gives him this money only to find out that his dad never had cancer. And then weirdly, there's a point in the TwitLonger, there's a point in the twit longer there's a

point in the twit longer where it's like and i wish that's where it ended like it's like if only it didn't get worse after that because then it's like you find out that it's unclear in the twit longer but it sounds like his dad like sky claims that his dad lied to him about needing the money and used it for a cosmetic penis surgery we all do we all just like but but uh because of the um because of the like indirect like pronoun that was used it's not clear if it was sky or his father who's being uh yeah one of them's packing i will say one of them's one of them's got themselves a brand new d well you don't know what the cosmetic choice was it's true it was too big it could have been uh like now it's glow-in-the-dark yeah yeah

i do like that now it's got connectivity yeah yeah scratch and sniff oh gross oh my god disconnect like so all these twitongers are coming out. By the way, TwitLonger is a website where you can write text and that's it. And they call it TwitLonger because a lot of people share links from Twitter because Twitter, you know, you could formally only post 140 characters, now 280 characters. I believe it's a technical limitation. They don't want that on Twitter. It just, whatever. Right. They couldn't figure it out like the website barely works as it

is and they figured adding any more characters would just be they look at wikipedia and their developers vomit oh how do they do it yeah yeah they're like what and people can edit these and it's like fucking like moderated um so okay. So for anyone who's actually curious, the reason that tweets are so short is because it was originally a service based on texting and SMS. And that's where the limit comes from. Okay. So these Twitlongers are coming out that are talking about like is trying to control the situation for his own personal gain, is like, should I go live or should I, what does he say? Should I make a YouTube video? Should I do a TwitLonger or should I go live?

And then the other two- Like somebody trying to get, like a psychopath trying to get a description of what they should do at a funeral. And then it's like, everybody's like, write a TwitLonger, do at a funeral. And then it's like, everybody's like, write a TwitLonger, make a YouTube video. And then he's like, okay, I will do a live. I will go live and I will respond to all these things. And not only that, I'm gonna monetize it. I'm gonna be talking about victims by name.

I'm gonna be naming abusers. I'm gonna be rambling to the point where it makes absolutely no sense. Donation goals to reveal more abusers. Oh, we only need 50 more subs boys. 50 more subs i mean to be fair hey maybe he's gonna pay people back with that cash ah yeah he won't he owes 350 000 and then yeah and then he just rambles for like two hours i'm i'm i'm refreshing my smash twitter

list watching people react like going what the fuck is going on and then he never says anything like people are posting memes of people saying nonsense and you know like they're posting memes about how his the map of how his house works how it's like you know of this like giant maze or whatever and then eventually he goes on break he's like he's like okay i need i need a break and then he puts on the break he comes back from the break and is immediately someone in his house like pulls the power on the router and it comes out that it was the dude who he owed 55 000 so really yeah it was the guy it was samuelson or whatever oh that's amazing because one of my

friends in melee uh tweeted like i'm gonna go to his house and stop him like this is insane like there could be legal ramifications and uh then it obviously stopped and i was like oh shit taffo did it like he went there how insane well so yeah it was like uh well i just know that void the smasher uh tweeted that when he tweeted the um twit longer from this dude who owed him 55 000 he replied to it saying by the way this is the guy who uh stopped the internet yeah yeah um because he also lived in the house so he was like giving his perspective on stuff too and so first of all i don't like i'm just like wow like that man is looking at this train wreck happening and he's like i'm gonna protect your image despite the fact that you

must be right or maybe he thinks that's what's gonna get the 55k like hey i don't know i don't know it's just like such a nonsensical thing and i am so wrapped up in the drama and i hate myself for it to be quite frank it's it's been a hell of a month for it though. Two weeks deep and we've already got, well, I mean, I don't want to necessarily associate a lot of the melee stuff with like, oh, crazy fun drama. Cause some of it is really traumatic and awful. Yeah. That's the thing. Yeah. Fascinating. And then you throw in disrespect in there and the, oh my God. Can we we talk can we talk about disrespect yeah when he joins brime you guys are gonna lose your mind oh my god yeah when he's when he like unannounced

goes live on youtube gaming that's when it's all when he goes live on that service that is a joint venture between google and spotify that's him and joe rogan are gonna have their own branded stream gen g signs him to play exclusively minesweeper or whatever all right that's what we did and now it's like kind of gotten too big so we don't know how to announce them it's a little awkward stance i feel like you could probably give a overview of the doctor disrespect situation better than i could do you would you be comfortable doing that i am comfortable doing that and chat or anyone listening message me hateful things if i get a single detail wrong because i get all for fun yeah yeah just for fun or actually just message me hateful things if I get a single detail wrong because I get all for fun yeah yeah just for fun or actually just message me hateful things let's forget about Dr. Disrespect so Dr. Disrespect

is one of the biggest streamers on twitch.tv by concurrency is maybe the biggest since ninja left he is a man who used to develop maps for call of duty who when he retired from activision became a streaming personality with a mullet he's got this whole 80s motif he's got the glasses he's got aviators on yeah yeah yeah exactly like his whole thing He's got this whole 80s motif. He's got the glasses. He's got aviators on. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. His whole thing is like, I am this 80s action hero that is obviously larger than life. It's very silly. You're watching for the joke of it. Watch me play shooter games. And so he's done this for years. He's got a huge fan base. He's making a lot of money. I'm going to mention this. I don't know if it's pertinent because we don't actually know

what's going on. He got very into shungite and other conspiracy theories in the last two months. Shungite is a rock or mineral, sorry, that supposedly blocks 5G. 5G is what a lot of people believe is perpetuating COVID because Bill Gates is trying to microchip our children. I'm not sure about all of that. It's a hard logic to follow because it's complete nonsense. But he did like start referencing and sharing like conspiracy, like sort of David Icke documentaries are mentioned and stuff like that.

Like sort of known conspiracy peoples. And so he's doing this all of a sudden. He's talking about conspiracies. He's streaming on Twitch. And earlier this year, he signs a big deal to become an exclusive Twitch streamer. So some people know that streamers

like Ninja and Shroud have left. They've signed to Mixer or Facebook Gaming, like Zero and Toast. And so like a lot of these streamers are like, man, should I be signing a big deal? Should I be getting some money? And Dr. Disrespect is one of Twitch's big ones, along with Pokimane and Tim the Tapman of like, these are our streamers. We're signing them to multi-year deals. We love their content. And so he's got this big Twitch deal and he's only a couple months in. And then one day he's streaming and he says something to the effect of, guys is real weird right now but you know what we're we're gonna get through it and all the time a roblox video is playing in the background it's a weird roblox video yeah it's

so weird and then he looks at his phone and he goes oh fuck and then he goes to like a an interstitial screen like hey you know this broadcast has been disrupted kind of thing and he's never seen again yeah where and that's it like like oh and then so past the shit well so immediately after that streamer the next day or whatever it comes out that he's been banned permanently from twitch yeah his account has been deleted even yeah oh it's been deleted wow so a platform where he it was just announced that he signed like a multi-million dollar deal with the platform. So it's like this zero to fucking 60 thing where shit just like completely turned and no one knows why. And so everyone's been looking at the last eight minutes of his stream, trying to theorize what's happening. There's all kinds of nonsensical

theories. one of which is that it's something related to like a rival streaming platform or something or he's trying to like poach people off of twitch which none of that makes sense because like he had you know millions of dollars in the bag already yeah yeah but and we should mention i mean like it was announced with less than zero information like yeah don't get me wrong this shit happens all the time with twitch but for somebody of that scale and then no explanation for a shit ton of time is straight up bizarre yeah and that's the perfect breeding ground for conspiracy theories like shungite uh or like you know sexual assault because it's like during this me too stuff or that

he's going to another platform anything is on the table and so everything got thrown out there as if like this is the source of truth like i know other streamers are tweeting like i know what happened and it's crazy so i'm not going to tell you which i think is the dumbest shit in the world so yeah no there's people there's people who allegedly know what's going on but then they're like i can't say it because it's so crazy and they don't want to like put themselves out there i also throw out nate what do you think you're qualified to and it can't be anything related to your job what do you think you're qualified to give advice on better yet what are you not qualified to give advice on but will be willing to do oh i think well what am i actually qualified to give advice on no no no no no no you want the

opposite you want what i'm not qualified on but what i will give advice on oh yeah oh damn this is a real relatively like financially privileged white person like went to school i feel so well-rounded that i i don't i know no exactly it's bad it's bad i need to check myself but i'm like no i know a lot of stuff like i'm sure i could think through it right yeah i feel like a supreme court justice who's like just give me a tough one and i'll figure it out i i also feel like a Supreme Court justice, frankly. Yeah, yeah. How hard can it be? Just think. I feel corrupt and overpaid.

Now that we've talked about the weird drama section of the show, we can get into the advice segment. I have a question for you. Can I start? Yeah, you absolutely can. Please, yeah. Yeah, so I talked about it when we opened the show that I've been feeling a little weird

and I've been using people who watch my content to kind of like pontificate and throw it out there. Right. Am I doing myself a disservice because there is no accountability and I'm just like throwing it out there and I'm not listening to anything? I guess, do you ever have that? You create, both of you create content and sometimes you are sad and sometimes you like mention, you're like, oh, I'm showing people more of a 3D version of myself. Yeah. And there, for me, it ends there. And I go, well, guess I'm going to stay sad, you know, or I'm showing people more of a 3D version of myself. And for me, it ends there. And I go, well, guess I'm going to stay sad. Or I'm going to stay dumb.

Jay, you want to jump in first? Yeah. I was going to say, this is a good question because I think it's a slippery slope to take in too much. So I think what you're doing now is fairly safe, right? It's like, hey, I am a human and I have peaks and valleys of my emotional curve. Just letting you know, audience. And maybe you'll get some people who are like, hey, take care of yourself, whatever, good messages here and there. But if you look too deeply into it, I worry that there could be a dependence that's built that is ultimately toxic. Because I always think about what am I relinquishing to the external?

Like if I'm worrying too much about what other people think over here, then I'm no longer in control of that. And I think that I try to, you know, I'll go to therapy or I'll like figure out what my own tools are for me to work on something personally. But yeah, I think what you're doing is fine because you're just like being transparent and being a three-dimensional person. I think that taking in too much or reading too much, I think that it's fine to read it and just take it as data. But I would say be conservative when it comes to allowing too much of that in because it's like any external validation. You know, if like whenever you're sad, you need to go to a friend or whatever. It's a band-aid, but ultimately like working through that stuff, like maybe with professional help or like having a dialogue with yourself about it can build codependence. Like you don't want to have that relationship with the audience. That's a really good question. But what do you think? When you say that you are worried about doing yourself a disservice because there's no

accountability, what exactly do you mean by that? Like you would want to tell somebody who would keep you more accountable to improving yourself? I think I was using it as a function of Twitch chat because I've been streaming a lot and like I talk to chat and I don't have to do anything they say, right? Like their chat. But in actually other aspects of my life, it's like, oh, I'm sad or I did this thing that I don't like that I did. Well, not going to change anything. Just going to do it again in two weeks. Yeah. You know, am I like morally obligated to myself because I should love myself to fix things that I am not happy with?

Or is it more myself to just be myself? And I get really, I get caught in that whirlpool. I would. Oh, that's. I have two thoughts on that. The TLDR is no, I don't think you're doing yourself a disservice. And that's not to buddy or Brad. I just, i'm very familiar with the vibe you're talking about but from like a more

personable level i think right after i got initially diagnosed with with a you know my host of mental illness things i started finding that my life was just talking about it every conversation i would have would either be about podcasts dnd or my mental health and i started becoming self-conscious about the fact that, is that just who I am? Has my ego been replaced by somebody who's in flux? Especially since I would rarely feel like the same person since, or every day, or sometimes I'd touch a really elated, engaged version of myself,

and then the next one is low and disengaged. And I'm like, oh God, do I have to be this person? Does every conversation have to include this? And then I presented that idea to my psychiatrist psychiatrist who had been along for the whole journey and they specifically told me that the brain or at least this is how i interpret it that the brain is a muscle that is just as open to atrophying as anything else and when it comes to emotional expression it doesn't necessarily have to be that you go to the gym and you walk out swole. Like every single time you stretch it, every single time you even do a minor little bit of expression every day, a little bit, a little bit, a little bit, you might not notice initially,

but in six months, you'll have some shredded abs. You know what I mean? To want to walk away from something like that with clear growth, clear satisfaction out of it, a bunch of people in the chat saying he's done it, he's improved is is a very difficult thing to throw at yourself especially when it comes to personal growth because you just hate yourself if you fail but also the gym metaphor is so good i feel like i'm skipping leg day yeah a little bit i don't i don't talk to anyone about anything it's all in my head and i never want to and i that's weird but i i i would contest that this is still a positive step towards that because another dangerous thing about feeling that there's no accountability is almost like treating expressing yourself as a zero-sum game like i spent all my expression

currency this week talking to chat now i can't engage with anyone else or now like what's the point of saying it elsewhere it's just you know you've got infinite cash might as well just spend yet it's like your real life yeah i think of it as like you know, you've got infinite cash, might as well just spend. It's like your real life. Yeah. I think of it as like, you know, to use a gaming metaphor, it's like a resource management type situation where working on everything at once is exhausting. So especially for those of us who spend a lot of time thinking about ourselves or self-critical, I'm going to always have a much longer list, laundry list of things I want to change about myself than I have time to change right now. And being aware of the problem is an important step, accepting that you are that way and accepting yourself and knowing that you're valid, even with these,

you know, things that you may not like be your favorite things about yourself is I think a good way of being. And then on top of that, you can invest some energy in working through the things you want to work on, the things you want to improve. But I don't think there's a moral responsibility to be fixing all of those things all the time, because that would be overwhelming. For me personally, I always have a priority list in my head of things that I'm working on. And if I'm not able to, like eventually I want to stop ordering out so much, but right now when my emotional reserves are low, when I need that fuel, that quick fuel from elsewhere, that's not particularly fuel efficient for my sort of self it does get the job done right now and sometimes i need i need that help i need that like that shortcut can i ask if there's anything is there a really really specific piece that like a motif you keep coming back to when you do talk about it on your stream or is it just kind of like a comprehensive i don't feel a hundred percent

human or like a hundred percent right or is it like I hate my fucking hair oh yeah no no no it's never that I I okay this is this is gonna sound weird I'm gonna try and put this in a way that doesn't make me sound like a sociopath no um I am very comfortable with myself as a human being both happy and sad and things that I like that I do and things that I don't like that I do I feel like oh like this is me I am Nathan and I don't change the things I don't like. And I also like, don't change. Like sometimes maybe I think I shouldn't be so harsh on like critiquing movies. Like am I doing that to be weird or I shouldn't be this, but I'm like, no, that is not going to change anything about me, you know, at all. And so whether, whether it's being sad or like little idiosyncrasies or friendships, I am willing

to change nothing. Like I have the laundry list, not even a single step. So I actually think that's a really good thing. You do not sound like a sociopath. I think a lot of people are coming at this, myself included, are coming at it from another angle where it's like, how do I accept these things about myself? Because for me, for the longest time, things I didn't like about myself would bring me down. That's not good because it doesn't serve anyone, right? It's like every time I think about it, it brings me down, but I can't do anything. And then you're down because you think about it. And then I'm down because I think about it. Yeah. It's like, what is this for? But where you're coming from is really cool. And I think I'm newly entering this world of being confident

with who I am and accepting myself for who I am and squaring that with the part of me that is just like a part of my personality that wants to continue to improve myself. I want to find the balance between like, okay, I'm making some strides to improve this thing, that thing. It's still, you know, I'm aware of it. I'm not able to address everything at once. So it's going to have to sit sort of in the hopper for now. But at the end of the day, I think you were doing yourself a big service by accepting who you are because you can accept yourself as like, I think if you can be comfortable with yourself, but then know that there's things that you would like to improve, I think that's helpful because you don't bring yourself down. And then when you decide that

you would like to start improving things, you know where to start. I don't think that you have to, if you're not feeling a desire to change these things, I would think about like, okay, well, how do these things affect me internally? How do these things affect people in my life externally those could be reasons to take action on them but if you're comfortable then you can kind of like pick and choose when you dive into those issues it's interesting that this has become a focus in your life despite not feeling too self-conscious about those issues in the first place has there been like a particular one that's been highlighted to you or a particular one you don't feel like you're getting stronger at that is causing rifts in your life in some way? Yeah, I think I, I can't think of any like specific

rifts besides like feeling like maybe I am not the best friend or partner, but being like very opinionated, uh, is like maybe like the main gist of it's like, oh, I'm very opinionated. And I don't think that everything is black and white, but like, much think x and y both you know politically or socially or and yeah i think i'm right but everyone thinks they're right like do i do i have an obligation to something i don't know i think that's maybe the biggest one is that like sometimes i don't leave things lie uh and just like all right i mean i think the over communication and i say that in a good way the over communication on the stream is i don't know kind of feels like a step in the right direction i think if you're flexing that muscle comfortably and consistently the idea that

somebody could then come along and say hey nate not thrilled about the racism or whatever then you you know all jokes aside just and then i ban them and we move on get the fuck out of here no you can take that feedback, synthesize it a little bit, not to say that all feedback is valid, but you can take that feedback and then like put it in a context of all the things you've been expressing

over X amount of time, or at least reply to them in the kind of analytical way you've been doing by yourself. Do you get a lot of replies in the chat that, I don't know, impact your thinking at all? Or is it more just sort of a rebound um you know how a politician goes and does like a debate and it's like

facile right it's just like oh they asked a question and i answered a different question or like it's i feel sometimes maybe like very political uh not politically correct because that's like a buzzword now but it's like i did a recent stream where i took a political you know like the the grid and you see like hey where do you end up on this political grid by answering this set of 50 questions and so like i landed right here and other people landed here and so there's like the opportunity to say like i think you're wrong because of x or i like y and so like i spent two hours saying like oh like you are not invalid for being there here is why i think this and that was like a little bit draining but i was in no way did anyone sway where my dot was and i couldn't even think of it we've got some questions that came in in a similar theme actually let's talk

about other people i'm no this is this is super interesting i don't know maybe this is the show i mean yeah i don't want to get picked up by like a lab after this because they're like this guy's fucking no no no i mean i think everything you're saying is like perfectly normal i. I don't want to get picked up by like a lab after this because they're like, this guy's fucking- No, no, no. I mean, I think everything you're saying is like perfectly normal. I think I don't want to be a caricature. Like I think, again, to bring it back, there's like, there's characters and it's always sunny and they are like bad people and they like don't care.

And it's like, am I not a bad person, but am I not caring about something that I should care about? Is that maybe tied at all to the fact that you're streaming a lot and you're having to wear a persona so often it's difficult to take off the mask if you have one at all? I don't think I have a mask.

I would say I've never, I've personally never known you to, to be honest. Yeah. And I also, I think that's been like my whole conceit of creating content is like, I am going to say the thing I,

like I will be very nice and I like, I will read other people's and take their point. But it's like, you know, like I think this thing. We've all known each other

in like very different contexts over time. But the first way we all knew each other was working together at Patreon. How long were you there? Like a year? Somewhere. Yeah, a year and a half at max. In that year, I don't have a single memory of you not taking feedback well ever since. And then we made arcs and we've always stayed in touch.

You've always stuck out to me as somebody that is very comfortable and confident but not through no effort like you've achieved things in your life put things in place nuclear family plan is a thing that you want it's not as though you've fallen into a bunch of obligation and you're not really satisfied at the core yeah you've made a lot of difficult choices or rather pursued a lot of very difficult things to get right you've've gotten them right. And now it's such an interesting problem to have that you want to be less comfortable with your choices and personality. Whenever I've heard you out on anything that you've talked about, like it always makes sense, right? Like, and I think that like, I don't see the need to change like a lot of the way that

you are because you, it seems like you're thoughtful about the decisions that you make and like the way that you carry yourself i think as a kid i was a know-it-all i probably still am oh right like oh no well i like a well actually here yeah oh i you know big relate big relate in a in like a gatekeeper aggressive kind of way or in like a well-intentioned i don't know i i don't i don't think i would be the fairest person one to say like oh i was definitely well-intentioned i don't know i i don't i don't think i would be the fairest person one to say like oh i was definitely well-intentioned like i was perfect well actually i wasn't being mean by saying well actually you know what i mean like i but i don't know i do remember my family thinking that you know like uh and maybe that's like a part of uh and so when you say like oh whenever you have like a take i feel like it's like you know well reasoned at least

yeah it's like well that's my my fear again it well, I'm not, I am not perfect by any means. I'm not like using logic and facts to destroy Libcux. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's like, yeah, yeah. But I guess none of us are perfect in that regard. But I think that anyone who has a certain degree of self-awareness, I don't worry about too much because it's possible that you just like,

it's one of those things where, you know, you say that you're not actually changing, but I wonder if, you know, it's a case where you look in the mirror every day after the gym and you don't, you know, perceive the change, but you go home for Thanksgiving or something and everyone is like, oh my God, you look amazing or whatever. And it's like, oh really? Because I've been looking at myself every day and i just haven't perceived the micro adjustments so do you two perceive micro adjustments emotionally around like the way that you tackle i guess emotional problems i don't think i perceive any of the micro adjustments but in therapy now that i've seen the same person for like a year over a year i think they can reflect back to me

situations prior, like in the past and how I dealt with them. And I do a lot of reflecting back on past situations and how I've processed them. And so I'm able to see how I've changed, even though I don't feel like I've changed. Like I have, I can't deny the fact that I've changed because certain, like the same thing happened. Let's say the same type of thing happened and then I reacted in a different way. And it's like, oh, well, what were the circuit? Why did I do that? Huh, interesting. That didn't affect me the same way it used to. I guess that must mean X, Y, and Z. But in the day to day, it does feel like a lot of little failures. Like I'm not able to, I'm not able to live up to what I actually want to be doing. My ideal self, how I'm comparing myself to like how the perfect version of me is acting. I would always set myself up for failure,

you know? And so I try not to judge myself on that and sort of remind myself that I'm, you know, well-intentioned and I'm trying my best trademark buy it now or whatever. He said the thing. Holy shit. I know. I hate, I actually hate it because I use that term a lot and it's like, ah, but yeah, reflecting. I think it's in, it's in reflection on the past that I see that change has occurred. Interesting. Maybe I'm just not reflecting. I don't feel like a reflector. Well, like if I look back at like what I'm doing on a day-to-day basis, I don't feel like. But I would argue that people reflect in different ways and it feels like you're expressing yourself

as your particular brand of that, right? On the stream, albeit somewhere else, we're just talking about the stream, but doing that feels like the same kind of flavor. You know what I mean? Albeit with maybe a different expectation because you're not doing it for immediate feedback from the stand stands. That is what they call it. Does things that come up at all that surely is a thing for you what the stand yeah they say that they do say that a lot i think that a lot of people think my name is stan which is a real branding that's funny might be worth just changing so two so two things one i think that by externalizing it too there is a certain amount of like working through it in your head that has to be happening when you are like putting it out there. And it's probably not like

Groundhog Day because if there's no reflection happening, then like why wouldn't every day feel like Groundhog Day? You know what I mean? Where it's like same old, same old. Yeah, everyone does like reflect in different ways. But I challenge you to like when a certain situation comes up and you react in a certain way if you can think back to other times that that thing has happened it's like is it a cookie cutter reaction that you have are you a robot right or or are you like this evolving well that's my fear evolving creature like yeah you in a weird way i know i know i know what you mean yeah yeah we have a quick quick, we have some chunkier questions to dive into, but WizGamer,

which I know you'll both appreciate as elite gamers like myself. The man after my heart. They say, how do you recognize when you're judging yourself too harshly? Which I feel like kind of thematically ties into this. I wanted to highlight it. I know we've already touched on a lot of pieces of that,

but I would maybe throw out external third parties, honestly. If, I mean, this particular example is a chat, but it could be just somebody close to you or even somebody not all that close to you trying to get some perspective. I don't know if anybody else suffers from this. In fact, I guarantee that Jarvis does because we've talked about it pretty extensively.

But that sense when you're at your worst, that the people closest to you and the people you validate yourself with hate you. Like, surely they can't like me because that would make me feel supported and i'm afraid because i feel bad yeah that is usually the exact flavor in my mouth when i'm judging myself too harshly but i love what's a big difference between oh sorry please oh oh so aaron aaron's got like and i agree with this it's like a great litmus test

is to imagine if you're criticizing your friend in the same way that you're criticizing yourself, because it's very easy for us to deny things that are true about ourselves that we don't deny in other people because we like treat them with more respect sometimes than we treat ourselves with, and more compassion than we treat ourselves with. There's also a behavior that is similar to that called selling tenants, where if you have some kind of experience where you feel so confident, it's a good day, but it's not a crazy hypermanic day.

It's just a good day. You've received some really nice comments from somebody else about this thing, or you just feel really confident in something, confident and balanced about, hey, I'm nice to people at parties if they seem uncomfortable. I invite them into the conversation. I'm nice to people at parties if they seem uncomfortable. I invite them into the

conversation. I'm nice to them. Get that down in a written form or even just a visual form. And you can then use that at your lowest points. Don't get me wrong. It's not, you're not always necessarily going to believe it. But building that list of tenants is pretty essential, especially if you don't have somebody else to remind you, my old apartment that I left voluntarily, not because of the government, I used to have a series of little scratches right next to my door, which I realized in retrospect made me look like a massive bro and a massive pervert.

But these little scratches were for- You're the Zodiac killer, actually. Yeah, of course. I'm Jordan, exclamation mark. I used to write down these little scratches to indicate how many times I thought I couldn't get out of a depression. It wasn't just having a slow day or a low day explicitly. Oh, I'm fucked. This is just it. This is the worst one yet. There's absolutely no way. By the time I left after a year, it was like 30, 40 down there.

And it didn't fix the problem, but I would have these incredibly low days and then reduce them by 25 because i basically see a video from the future yo okay telling me to shut up about that so i don't journal a lot but sometimes when i'm really going through it i will try to write down my headspace and like why i'm feeling the way i'm feeling and what has been going on to like lead to this. And I've done it enough and so infrequently that I really can like look at these snapshots in time. It does so much. It's like, it's like those notches where I can see where my headspace was, how caught up I was being and how I feel about it now and how distant I feel from that, like now, or how different I feel as a person. Because when you're really like getting, like if you can talk a lot about your headspace,

you can really connect. Like it's almost like you're writing a manifesto, but like it's like, what is the thought process of this person? And then compare yourself now to like, can I follow this narrative? Like, does this still track with like my understanding of who I am and stuff? And it can really like that in a couple of times has taken me out. Like I was going through a bad breakup once and I read some stuff I wrote about like a girlfriend that I had had like a few years prior.

And it almost like took me out of like the depths of feeling bad because I was like, oh, right. I was like everything I'm thinking in my, like the unhealthy thoughts that I'm having are like disproven by reading this right now. And to answer the original question, how do you know if you're being too harsh on yourself? It's sometimes hard, but I would challenge you to answer the question, is this true? Is what I'm telling myself right now true or is this like a narrative that like i'm self-criticizing and i'm sort of cherry picking evidence to

make myself feel bad and where does it fit in that like last stream we talked about the idea that depression is infectious it wants to spread through your body yeah it's like uh it's it's fake news it's it's propaganda it's yeah it's a lobby gone mad honestly um it's a libcuck frankly depression wants you to be depressed it's not just there and oh god if i can only wipe my way wipe it away from myself it's addictive depression is addictive it makes you want to be depressed on some level and given that lens though it's very hard to see through that lens sometimes it gets foggier the more miserable you are. You can indulge sometimes.

You can take something you know will make you feel bad, be addicted to it and say, yeah, that interaction I had in high school actually was a really big deal. And whenever I try and get past it, I think I passed it. But actually, I'm just in denial there. My friends actually do hate me. There's some indulgence there. It's almost like wanting to believe something good when you're in denial. oh yeah she's not replying to my text because she's busy or whatever no it's like it's okay to accept things that are legitimate but yeah do question them i definitely feel like the indulgence is real uh like when you're feeling bad it's like oh yeah give me all

the bad shit like i can only feel bad i need to feel even worse because i'm such a shitty pile of shit i mean sometimes it's nice to feel yeah you know let yourself feel your feelings too okay wait before we take the next question i need to i need to say something i want to show a video i don't know if stans knows about this it's a video that we recorded when we were all at patreon and uh we made it was like a song that we're making up for natalie don oh god i hate it i don't want to watch it i'm going to turn off my stream and i'm going to go it's like it's pre-glow up for all of us it's it's just like it's like talk about a time capsule but we all in order versions of ourselves a child would draw if they'd only heard about us i know

other people have more important questions people think i'm a psychopath again because i don't watch anything i make ever or listen to it or do anything with it. I throw it into the ether. That's because of this feeling. This feeling I'm having right now makes me so uncomfortable. I am so desensitized. I'm not desensitized.

Because of I've had to just edit my fucking voice so much. There are the three steps to it. Oh my God, I hate myself. I hate the way that I look and sound. Then stage two. Well, I hate the way that I look and sound, but stage two, well, I hate the way that I look and sound, but I'm comfortable working my way through it.

And then stage three, oh, everybody hates the way that they look and sound. I've come to terms with it. And the one thing I learned from it, I don't do as much anymore. The first three episodes of ARX, I say, um, so fucking much. And then after that, oh my God, I just said it there. It makes me wince when i lean into oh i'm so bad i'm so bad about that stuff it still happens all the time but yeah i mean arcs especially because i'm kind of doing a voice is a very weird show to engage with adam driver adam sandler and

kevin hart don't watch their stuff those are three people that i don't i was gonna say you're a regular adam driver well you know adam driver one of the really peculiar ones, David Lynch doesn't watch movies. That's like his at all. I fucking love David Lynch. Anyway, what we have here is a video. This is mid-2016. Look at these children. Look at these babies.

These sweet young boys. We're singing. They just re-fire them. You don't look any different, Nate. Didn't you, wait, didn't you lose a bunch of weight though? Oh yeah, I did lose a bunch of weight at Patreon, yeah. You're looking lean these,

even leaner these days though. Context of this is we're improvising a song Let's see where the song goes How long is it That's crazy, why is it five minutes because we failed. We're not going to watch the whole thing. I would watch the whole thing. That's crazy. Why is it five minutes? I don't know. Because we failed so many times. Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense.

We're just like, it's on the beat. Zutra to the beat. I'm just going to do it with that Nickelback voice. Oh, with Nickelback voice, I said. Wake up in the morning. Oh, you did do a couple takes

where you changed the voice a bit. Wake up in the morning, TJ Jean did do a couple takes where you changed the voice a bit. Wake up in the morning to J. John Tyler isn't here now. Oh, we're just having fun. This is so funny. Remember those days? I hate fun.

No fun. Remember when there was some vibrancy in the world? Uh-huh. How does this end? An apology. Maybe Stan said something controversial

and I skipped right past it so we're not going to back up and listen to whatever it was. But whatever it was, Jordan. You know, it would be kind of funny if Trump ran for president. There's no way he'll win,

but lock her up. Shall we take a couple more questions before we wrap up? I have a cue here as like a preface on this. I'll read the question, but I, my direct question to you would be, I don't know anything about your experience with depression or at least your interpretation of it,

but perfect forum for it, mate. I'm starting to get back to work after a huge depressive episode and I'm struggling so much to allow myself to believe that people don't expect me to go back to 100% immediately or that they are annoyed at me, even though everybody is making the supportive sounds. Not a specific question in that,

but an interesting statement. And yeah, I wanted to relate that to you because I don't think we've ever talked about that. I think it's very hard to keep out intrusive thoughts like that. The best anecdote for like a similar thing, which maybe will illustrate how, I don't want to say ridiculous because nothing is ridiculous, but people aren't thinking that. Like when you go to the gym, no one's looking at you and saying like, oh, this guy's only got fucking 20s on each.

I can't even do the fucking 45s. Like really no one is thinking that and you're being harder on yourself. Someone asked earlier, how do I know if I'm being too hard on yourself? That's a situation where like most people nowadays understand that like, you know, mental illness or even just having a sad day. It's like, we're just all trying to keep on keeping on. Like, so first of all, people are, uh, way too self-absorbed, way too focused on their own shit, probably worrying about how other people are viewing them that aren't actually paying attention to them. You know what I mean? And then also, if people are saying the right things, it may be hard, but you kind of just have to take them at their word until proven otherwise.

Because those types of thoughts, it's like a form of anxiety, right? Because it's not based on fact, because they're saying the opposite, but you may have this worry that it's hard to get past. And this advice may not work for everyone, but trying to remind yourself of that can- And even the idea that, I mean, you're making the statement yourself that you are not back to 100% yet. So the person you are is not gonna assess that right.

You are less than 100%, so you're gonna catastrophize. You're gonna think the worst possible situation is happening and your, in this case, worst possible situation is that people are placating you, but they don't really believe that you're trying your best or sorry i'll venmo you for that yeah yeah we need to uh that's what we need we need a sound board where i can play like a cha-ching sound anytime someone says try my best i will one time for the bit i will venmo you i don I don't know, like $4,000. $350,000 so we can pay Sky back.

Yeah, that's true. That's true. We need to get started. Go fund me. It would be pretty funny to start doing that and then be weirdly successful and then not give him the money in a beautiful moment of irony.

And then get special penis surgery. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Speaking of penis surgery, I'm going to have to interrupt you uh to say i was gonna say sorry special penis surgery yeah that's what i was gonna say the idea that you should trust your assessment of the situation when you yourself are saying that you aren't at 100 yet means that you need to give yourself some minutes i know those minutes aren't going to be easy and i know that you're going to feel just as paranoid i, is a way of saying it or concerned, but I don't know, have the same patience they're having with you. And don't,

as Java says, don't assume that people are thinking nearly that much, but even if they are, I don't know what your job is. I don't know what your relationship is with them, but if it's as severe as you're describing it, I would be very, very surprised if they straight up don't believe you or have their doubts. There's this book that I really like called Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy. And reading it or reading the parts of it that I did where it was really helpful for me. But what it does is it kind of outlines all these logical fallacies or mental traps that you can fall into. And when you notice yourself falling into them, it's weirdly liberating to know that a white dude in the 80s called that number three. You know what I mean? It's number three on his list of things that we do. And catastrophizing is one of them.

And mind reading is a thing that we do a lot where it's like, we don't know this to be true, but I'm now imagining a world where people are thinking these thoughts that I have no way of proving whether or not they're thinking. And then I'm going to act as if that's true. And that's the world that I'm living in. So it's like the dark matter of fucking like of your emotional state, where these things are shifting your perception of the world when in reality, like you don't know any of it to be true to begin with. Yeah. There is, there are no, like, there's no concrete world or like facts of like, oh, this is just how the world is. Everyone is so slanted by like their, their thoughts and opinions and anxieties and mental stuff and experiences that if I looked at

exactly, if I lived my exact life as someone else, they would think completely different things about who I am and my friends are and my job. It's just, it's crazy. I want to take a fun question to close out on. Oh, we had one of my stream the other day that I can maybe like lobby up to you. I have very strong opinions on it, which should not be a surprise. People were telling me that I don't want to make the statement because I kind of want to lead you to water first and see if you drink. Sure. What makes a popsicle?

Oh. What makes a popsicle? Do we want to take some time offline to really talk about this? Yeah, I think I'm going to need to change my battery again, actually, by draining at an alarming rate. Because people were telling me that all a popsicle has to be is something cold on a stick. Okay, hold on. That okay hold on that feels dog in the chicago snow that feels

wrong handle this i gotta change my background to a pair of new bounces if you oh thank you if you look it up everyone has a different criteria for me a popsicle has to be some form of frozen juice on a stick i wait but their definition was anything frozen on a stick yeah it got a little off the rails towards the end because I think you have something like a push pop or like ice cream on a stick. A push pop is not frozen juice. It is ice cream on a plastic stick. Is that a popsicle? I wouldn't actually call that a popsicle even when I was a kid.

What does pop stand for? Push pop. Oh, interesting. But sickle. Because sickle is a portmanteau. It comes from icicle i imagine right so it's like that's true like what where would the like sickle and popsicle come from right like uh and so i'm just wait can i just cyclical nature of our lives and eating popsicles

being the one nostalgic thing we remember from our childhood and having that one memory yeah that's what's cyclical sorry yeah and so it comes from hammering oh i've never done it i would say confidently though i've never, I don't believe they were called push pops yet. This is not, this, no. So what about a fudge, what about a fudge sickle? Because that has sickle, but no pop. So a fudge sickle is like a fudge icicle.

What, you know, is it, is it a popsicle? What makes it, is it not pop? I would say if it is sweet, if it is frozen, let me just get real close for ASMR on this one. Sweet and frozen. And it is that shape. It is pseudo phallic. I feel like I have something to hit you with frozen banana. Not a popsicle.

Not a popsicle. That is sweet. That is frozen. And that is phallic. I would say it has to be a frozen liquid i think that i i think that ice has to be a like a very operative aspect of the thing like ice cream ice like i don't know well you would say ice cream counts well i don't know i don't know but i i would say that like in the like it's not just anything frozen and it's not i don't think it's just a liquid necessarily because when you're describing something as a frozen liquid like does i mean a lot of things

that are frozen could have a liquid form so i don't know well almost anything right at a certain temperature well yeah at a certain temperature yeah yeah welcome to the fucking ben shapiro show yeah no at all uh because i think you're on both sides of the fudgesicle now though right well so i'm trying i'm trying to i'm trying to navigate i'm trying to figure out me too i'm lost in this because i think i don't think i would call fudgesicles that it is at some point liquid yeah i fudgesicle if i'm understanding correctly is a frozen melted fudge kind of chocolate shebang right yeah if you would leave it it's like chocolate it's essentially chocolate and i feel like i think a descriptor has to be that if you leave it on a hot summer's day it becomes liquid yeah but i just

think that a fudgesicle because it has its own name like it feels like it operates outside of the world yeah that's fair it feels like it's it's adjacent to the world of popsicle you know what i mean and like where do we put what about those like when the ice cream truck would come and you would get like tweety bird on a popsicle stick with gumball eyes yeah with gumball eyes or pikachu or something like is that a popsicle because it's on a popsicle i think that's betraying my my third tenant of the popsicle, Jarvis. The melting? The shape. See, I don't think the shape has anything to, like, I think, I don't know if shape.

Psychopathic. Psychopathic, I have to say. No, no, no, no. You're right. Because shape, it comes from the sickle, right? So it's got a hammer and sickle. Wake up, comrade. I think the etymology is important, no? I think so as well.

Whoa. I think the etymology is important, no? I think so as well. Whoa, I will say, I just opened Popsicle, which I should point out, we, as always, have some kind of, it kind of sounds perverted version here, which would be like an ice lolly. The Popsicle here is a lot more broad in shape than I thought. There's a lot of these, I guess,

hench, thick boy Popsicles that are like rectangles. Yeah, there's a lot of those, but that's what I'm saying. Like a bubblegum pop. So what I'm trying to say is like, okay, let's think about the popsicle stick as a delivery mechanism.

Yes. Is anything that is served like cold or frozen on a popsicle stick a popsicle? No, it seems like we're saying, right? I have to say no, because they're trying to tell me corn dogs are popsicles in my chair. Well, I'm going to have to

throw it out there. First of all, the corn dog would not be reduced to liquid on a hot summer's day unless you left it for a decade or so. You've clearly never eaten a corn dog. Oh, yeah, we have the stick argument. I forgot. I've gone through so many of these, and I'm so tired of it. But Otter Pops, you know, like it's a tube. There's no stick. There's no popsicle stick.

Oh, an Otter Pop. That's a very good question. I would say that Otter Pop is its you know, like it's a tube. There's no stick. There's no Pops in a stick. Oh, an Otter Pop. Yeah, that's a very good question. I would say that Otter Pop is a genre if necessary. What about licking it to eat it? Because you can't really lick a corn dog, even if it's frozen, to like consume it. I want to be so careful about getting reported on Twitch. Are we set as explicit? This one's not for the faint of heart. No, I feel like the Hot Summer's Day argument is good.

I feel like licking it is important. I feel like popsicle sick is important. And I can't deny that... Oh, but two of those get hit by Otter Pops because you don't lick it. You have to bite it out of the tube. Well, I don't think an Otter Pop... I would throw Otter Pop out.

I don't think an Otter Pop is a popsicle. Let me Google Otter Pop. Here's a premise that I'll throw out there. It seems like there's a lot, a lot of sweet frozen candy that isn't in our opinion, quite a popsicle that brands itself as something else. I'm not seeing a lot of popsicles called like tasty popsicle boy. It's all like the Otter Pop is distinguishing itself as something else. Cause it knows that it's not.

Otter Pop is not a popsicle. Otter pop is like the go-gurt of popsicles. I need to sit down. It's just yogurt. That's why an otter pop is a popsicle. No, no, no, no.

Because we talk about, we talk about heavy depression, uh, being self resentful and over blaming. And then we get into popsicles, start weeping. Well, so what I'm trying to say is if you took an otter pop and you put it on a stick,

I feel like it would be called a popsicle i don't think that popsicle means that anything that's in the shape of an icicle is is a popsicle i think that it needs a popsicle stick i have what might be an essential update from npr hang on just let me accept yep you can have all my data for this you can have all my data how an 11 year old boy invented the popsicle i'm going to skim this real quick but my understanding here is that it comes from the term he declared it an epsicle a portmanteau of icicle and its name that's the thing that he's eating 1923 oh his name yeah his name is his name is frank epperson jeffrey epstein oh shit oh by the way i'm watching is anybody else watching

the documentary i'm not gonna start episode four you gotta Oh, by the way, I'm watching. Is anybody else watching the Netflix documentary? I'm going to start. Episode four. You got to watch it. By the way, you know, content warning. Lots of stories of abuse, as you would expect. But the shit is insane. Got it.

Is it clearly ramping up to covering the post-quote suicide events? Or is it more a sort of archive of the things that took place way beforehand? I don't know. Because I. How long is it more a sort of archive of the things that took place way beforehand i don't know because i how long is it it's four episodes i think and i'm on i have not started episode four yet but so far it's all the stuff pre it's all the like stuff you know because he went to jail for like 13 months once but it wasn't really going to jail he was allowed to leave every day and then also just better than house arrest basically what would happen is he would uh violate his probation and then all these like attorneys like they would call him on hey he's like literally out of the state right now violating his probation and they'd be like what do you expect us to do and it's like uh your jobs i don't know so i have to lay down the final piece

of this are you reading the wikipedia about popsicle because reading reading the npr it almost seems impossible just because it's so peculiar uh eventually eberson's children urged him to change the ice pops name to what they called it pops sickle oh he has apostrophes in there he's a pop so it's like grandpa's icicle yeah that's right which yeah it's problematic by itself but here's the other thing popsicle is a name brand so it's kind of like a kleenex type scenario you know what i mean yeah so if you go to the wikipedia on popsicle it's it's a it's it's listed as a brand of ice pop and ice pop is the governing article that encompasses all this what makes an ice pop so because, cause it's like, cause ice pops can be referred to as popsicle, Canada, US, freezer pop, US, ice.

But I think of those as a freezer pop is like a different thing. Ice lolly, you know, that's what Jordan said. Ice pop, an ice block. Ice pop apparently is not like a- Ice block rules. Oh, in the Philippines, it's called an ice drop, which I like. Oh, that's fire. So it's a water or milk-based frozen snack on a stick.

Story checks out. I'm okay with that one. Is there anything weird that we would consider an ice pop if it was water? I guess, is there savory milk? Does that exist? Cheese. Oh, frozen cheese on a stick is an ice pop. That is a horrible idea.

Frozen cheese on a stick. But in the same way that frozen ice cream on a stick is is an ice pop because like frozen cheese is not does not become a liquid upon like it's not going to drip on your hand hey this is wikipedia which is the arbiter of all discussions and it just says it has to be milk-based wait she's milk-based cheese is milk-based but it's like if it's queso and you freeze it yeah that on a stick that's i love the stick is used as a handle to hold it without a stick the frozen product is known as something else is that what it says that's literally what it says on wikipedia otter pops are not pops let's see i'm trying to

cancel otter pops right now how about we just open up the floodgate i mean this is some old school boomer thinking that we have to gatekeep stuff like that How about being a popsicle is self-elective? Something wants to be a popsicle, it can be a popsicle. You know what? I'm going to say no. But also what feels like a crime against humanity, if you go to the Ice Pop Wikipedia page, the example ice pop is a cucumber, elderflower, and mint ice pop. Like what sort of like...

Yeah, and it's wide. It's so wide. What sort of gentrification of of ice pops is this i'm just i'm picturing jimmy wales just chuckling as he reads that one yeah while asking you for a donation it's like look if you donate at least 30 we'll change it to him i'll change this to an auto pop yeah auto pops are frozen treats not popsicles they actually self identify as not pops oh so actually jordan's point now has some uh some more credence hey uh true artists are never understood in their own time i'm glad we really got to the bottom of this got into the real shit i didn't mean to bogart the wacky question no that was you did you kidding me

you you covered it up with two heavier questions yeah we do have fun we do don't we i was like well how do we transition to the end of the show used to be that thanks nate for joining us on today's episode of sad boys it's a lot of great fun thanks for inviting me we'll have to have you on again soon because we don't know how to do this twitch thing so you will be our you'll guide us through if people on the internet want to follow you into the dark uh how might how might they do so yeah uh on twitter i'm nathan stands which is just my name i am verified which means i have to uphold a code uh the ninja code is what i do the gamer not the athlete i create videos on youtube.com slash stands s-t-a-n-z been very

successful for my short time doing it which i'm happy about you got youtube.com slash stands i bought it from a kid in england nice i was talking to my chat and i was like how much should i pay like a thousand bucks and like what are you doing offer him a hundred dollars and the kid was like yeah definitely a hundred dollars jarvis can you imagine i have no idea the scale uh getting getting youtube.com slash jarvis was tough uh because it technically was unclaimable because because like like because of the way the URLs work. So no one had it, but that was good for me because it was impossible to claim. So I was like, okay, all I have to do is convince somebody at YouTube to give me this because no one can possibly get

it. No one has it. They're not stealing it from anyone. Yeah. Stan's on Twitter is a food service store with like 90 followers in South Bend, Indiana. And I asked them and they were like, this is going to be mid five figures at least. We have a lot of marketing material. And I was like, is it like one billboard? Like, can I just pay them for the billboard and buy their app? They would not do it.

So I'm Nathan's best friend. Five figures at least for 90 followers. Wow. Too bad. Yeah. And then I had people from my chat like tweet at them and I felt very uncomfortable. So people, there's like high school kids

who regularly DM me for like, hey, I'll buy your app for 30 bucks it's like at jarvis i'm like i don't know i don't know that that's not enough you sweating looking at a button yeah okay jordan uh where can the internet find you if they would like to harass you nope no harassment too late they would like to gingerly harass me with a description of how many muscles i have and the minimum is 200 big ones i start the big sorry i'm not going to give you my information you have to find me you can find me on literally everything in history jordan that is weird i was watching a i was watching a documentary and you were in the background ancient aliens aliens. The plane comes down.

Jordan Adika written in Sanskrit. I was holding a newspaper from tomorrow. I spoke over you. Jordan Adika. J-O-R-D-A-N. A-D-I-K-A. You can find me on things if you want to. Wouldn't recommend it, but you certainly could.

You can follow me on Twitch. I've been trying to stream. Can't get my flipping PC. So I'm currently... It was actually very sweet the other day. He tried to go get it, but it was an impossible dream. So it might be a little while, but I will probably be doing some music production stuff on there, providing my little weenie laptop can handle it.

Jarvis, should people follow you? No, but if they want to, I'm at Jarvis on Instagram and Twitter and YouTube. So you can, that's my first name. Cool, everybody. It's not FaZe Jarvis from FaZe Clan. I got everything but TikTok before he did. This is him trying to walk back the cheating thing. Like I'm not FaZe Jarvis.

I'm just a different Fortnite player. Does somebody have FaZe Jarvis? Cause that could be you. Trade him FaZe Jarvis. I get tagged as that kid like so often. Yeah. Constantly. Yeah.

Well, it's cause that is your TikTok. That's true. I do love to aim bot all right we end every episode of sad boys with a particular phrase we love you and we're sorry that was fast and don't forget to read the thing that was i wasn't even ready we didn't even give nathan a chance to say a thing fuck him so do you have any final words, Stance? Before we kill you. Oh, wait. Actually. Tell Rochelle I loved her. There we go.

Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. Good choice. Nothing to the cats. No, I'm good. Yeah. Nothing about the cats. They're dead to me.

So, hey, you hear a funny story? Can I keep this pod going for seven more hours? Oh, yeah. I mean, like, now that the pod has been wrapped up, we can continue going. Oh, good. We're free. Yeah, yeah. We took Sophie to the vet because, you know, just for a yearly checkup. And they're like, hey, something's a little off in the blood work we'll run the like an ultrasound uh it turns out she also has ibs like both rochelle and i and she is also a vegetarian

now like rochelle and i so uh what a silly little what's her opinion on get out uh she says she likes it but she thinks the cast choices were a little weird. Oh, weird. I heard that she would voted for Anubis three times. Oh, yes. If she could. That's a big cat, right? Oh. Now, that might be cultural appropriation.

I don't know. He might be one of the ones that's like a lizard. Rami Malek is fuming. All right, boys. What do we have to do? I'm going to do a thing, but I'll say to you, my friend, I love you very, very much.

Both of you. One of you more than the other. You be the judge. And I hope we get to talk more. Love to hang out. This is great. This is so fun. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Yeah, also like whenever we need a 100% gamer. Yeah. Hello. You wouldn't know anybody, would you? Could you imagine if I was a pundit? Like, well well the gamer delegation really thinks this i'm like the speaking nate can i can i just ask you like a real question um do you are you a gamer because you don't have a life or because you choose to

so i grew up oppressed and i thought where can i find a group of people that grew up oppressed like me and no one is more oppressed than an american gamer that's true i read a profile about that, actually. Yeah, no, I think it would be great to have Stanzas, like, one of those recurring guests that becomes, like, a side character in the show. Like, that would be fun. The Zayn. I'm Kramer. Hey.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He just bursts in whenever, you know. That's all I know about Kramer. Is that a thing about Kramer? Who's the Zayn? Wild hair, too. Or black people didn't what's up. You know what I'm saying?

Hey. Yeah, he's like, what's he say? He's like, neighbor Rooney diddly doody. Yeah, that's exactly what he says. Not Heidi Ho neighbor, which is from Tool Time. But Heidi Ho neighbor, is that The Simpsons? Yeah. Is that Ned Flanders?

Isn't that the Oakley Doakley neighborino? No, that's Seinfeld. That's what Seinfeld says when he bursts into Elaine's apartment. Yeah, it's Black Frazier. That's what he says. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Black Frazier. Oh my God.

All right. It's been fun. I love you and I'm in love with you. Catch you later. Catch you later. My name's Jeff.