Sardonicast - Sardonicast 104: Kung Fu Panda Trilogy

Episode Date: January 24, 2022

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Three, two, one. Cachow. That's the famous line that Po from Kung Fu Panda says when he does the Wushi Fingerhold. I'm Adam from your movie sucks. This is Sardonicast. I'm Ralph. And I'm Alex from my age.

I was the show used to going third, you know? I'm just waiting for you to go in second. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We always got to confuse. I stunlocked you. Yeah, it's all right. You wishy held us both. Yeah.

My favorite line, Cachow. It's so appropriate in the moment. It isn't Skadoosh. No, it's Cachow, Ralph. He's got a few good ones to choose from. Chow. Skadoosh. Bazing.

Yeah, wrong trilogy, man. We're saving the cars. All right, let's, uh, we'll come back in six hours. Let's record another episode. Go watch cars. Yeah, this is a trilogy. episode with three movies. So let's just jump into it.

Well, it was my recommendation. This is what, this is what the, if you account the Shrek movies, the third lot of DreamWorks trilogies we've talked about. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, I've teased that I wanted to talk about these for a while because I feel like memes aside, like DreamWorks definitely has this reputation for their kind of meme-worthy movies. So Monsters versus Aliens and the Shrek movies and the Madagascar movies, they got a bit of a rep for

it. But hiding in their catalog, there are kind of some underrated, good-ass movies, like really respectable animated movies in there. And my favorite one of the trilogies they have available is Confu Panda. So starting with the first ones, came out in 2008. It's kind of a basic hero's journey story with a bunch of big famous actors, obviously Jack Black being the leading. And it's kind of a nice story that boils down into.

a bunch of like American animators creating this character who's like a fanboy and it's like this nice ode to you know kung fu films yeah he's like a big dork he's a big nerd and he loves like kung fu and he's yeah

this kind of seems like self-referential he's late for the convention yeah dream works has some good stuff they're not entirely like you know people should on them but they have some good stuff they have like the how to train your dragon movies and yeah this this is like

these are much better than I remember them or at least I think I've seen the first two anyway before this yeah where they held up well at least I feel yeah that's part of it to me is the the the kind of name and the posters and the yeah it kind of looks way worse than it is yeah definitely well obviously started there I like the the name just everything about it all three of the posters are really bad and like extremely simple and looks look dumb and they have that kind of cartoony well not the kind of cartoony wordplay you're looking for the kind of groan-worthy workplay where it's like pandemonium on the first one's poster or twice the awesomeness on the second one's poster like really leaning into the kind of worst parts of the movie but obviously

the advertising doesn't necessarily speak for what the movies are themselves which i find to be just really solid hero's journey really good action like really fun characters and you know surprising about going on for like a kids movie for like ideas to get them thinking there's yeah there's this particular standout characters and really good villains we'll get into but if we're talking about just the first one i think it's probably one of the strongest uh compared to where it goes i'm torn in my head between one and two and certain movies have like strength over the other definitely like two more i think but yeah they're both yeah there's certain elements It's a fair in the first one, but yeah, we'll get into that.

Yeah, just to focus on the first one, yeah. Um, yeah, like a big criticism of all the DreamWork stuff are like, usually the humor, like, the pop culture references. They usually go overboard in some movies. It's not really so much, like, bad comedy in these Kung Fu Panda movies at all. And even the first one, there's, there's nothing I thought was like kind of grown worthy. Yeah, it doesn't like pull you out the universe at all. and that kind of thing. I mean, there is one, like, at some point.

But, you know, for the most part, I thought the humor was, like, actually pretty well integrated into the movie. And, like, it was more about the story and, like, Poe's journey. Like, yeah, he had, like, a good arc, a really good hero's journey. Yeah, it was like, you actually like the character of Po. Right. And it balances all these other characters really well in the movie. There's a lot.

I don't know, like, I think one of my criticisms would be that, like, some of the, what are they called the Furious Five or something? Like, some of them either didn't need to be in the movie or should have been more developed sort of thing. Like, Seth Rogen does, like, the entirety of his character is just, he

has a Seth Rogen voice and he's small. Like, there are other parts in the movie where you can do, like, the kind of cricket sound effects or whatever, it's like, ch'p, or whatever. I would have rather had that character just only do that and never say anything, Seth Rogen, like, because his character doesn't add anything.

Yeah. Like if they if they just kept it as like non-talking. Yeah, the Jackie Chan one is like kind of a funny cameo, I guess that's about it. Yeah, he's barely in the movie. Like he's probably in the third. Yeah. Like the third movie. Yeah.

Exactly. Those characters definitely can develop a bit more. I like the crane the most, I think of all of them. And the tiger. Yeah, David Cross. He tries to be nice. And Angelian Jolie is the tiger. Yeah, like those are the best.

Yeah. And yeah, like the rest of them, they're more like comedic relief. His dad is like a really good comedic relief pose. dad. I like the goose. The goose, yeah. Runs the noodle shop. Yeah.

He's really funny, actually. One of the things that stands out to me is around this time, I feel like DreamWorks was suffering with some really repulsive character designs. We're talking shark tale. Even like the humans in the Shrek movies, a little bit off, a little bit creepy. They're good at creepy looking stuff. But they kind of nailed the odd direction here, because of course it's set in China. It's like a whole ode and love letter to China.

this kind of fictionalized version of it where everyone's an animal. But yeah, they really make it work with like the different character designs, especially for me standing out is the Ugui, Master Ugui, the kind of turtle and all the detail they put into like his shakiness and the way he moves and his dialogue in particular. Every time he is in a scene, he carries it and is way more thoughtful. And he provides that kind of, he's the wise, knowledgeable, character that he kind of gets everything in motion and he has to go early on and it has the emotional beat and just the music of it too and the way it's used with each character. I'm a big fan of the music in this trilogy.

The thing that originally got me into it was how good and memorable that music is and how it punctuates, especially that action and even the comedy and every element of it works really well in terms of that kind of presentation. Yeah, if there's one thing that I like about this movie, it's that it definitely tries to have a style, whether or not it's the intro cinematic sort of thing with the almost like Samurai Jack style animation 2D going on. Yeah, different styles of animation. Like you said, the music,

I don't think the music's perfect throughout or anything. I think it could have been more impactful in like the Ta-Long escape scene, but I still like that it had a personality. I still like that the music was there and it did something that was not exactly traditional to big budget animation kids movies. And another element that really makes it stand out

and I think this movie would be so much worse without it is the fact that they actually did competent fight choreography and really fitting cinematography to go along with it. If we're going to talk about the Ta-Long escape scene, not only is what is happening

physically with the character really cool, but the way that it's shown is super effective, like the camera following the character along the wall and moving with him and giving the audience like a real sense for how fast things are moving, the scale of the place that it's in. It's just, it's really, really well shot in terms of framing and cinematography,

which you never see really in a kid's movie, and it makes all the difference, especially for a movie that's about kung fu action. right yeah yeah there's some really good audio design as well in that segment yeah do you remember that there's like a bunch of slow-mo used in that action scene as well yeah yeah yeah i found to be something kind of more annoying in the in the sequels but it works really well in that scene specifically when it's like it slows down and there's that huge arrow that kind of uh it hits into his shackles and there's like this ringing noise that sounded really great

through the through the audio design it's yeah that whole part is an audio visual treat with that red and blue lighting and just how extreme it goes it's a really great action it's a great kung fu movie on its own yeah the action's fucking cool it has to be yeah because they lean into the fact it's animated like they can get goofy with it because it's really slapstick the rules uh it has rules and it definitely still has tension and stakes but they they play with it they let it go kind of goofy because there is that underlying goofy tone it's like a it's a big fat panda and that's the ongoing joke because it's falling over it's all slapstick and but yeah that's part of the charm of it yeah yeah definitely there it's a it's a very

homagey and tropey movie but it still feels kind of unique because yeah it was this was this was also like really early not like incredibly early but still I guess like at the somewhere in the peak of like this we're doing kind of adulty dreamworks animation things where you know it's a kids movie but there's jokes for adults too and you're not miserable if you bring your child there they were trying out a bunch of different things yeah how's change your dragon yeah a bit more so tweeney yeah like this is definitely one of these standout uh additions to the genre if you'd call it a genre it is kind of a genre that's dream works kind of we're making jokes movie yeah yeah it's like it's it's a necessary answer to uh older kids like disney fairy tale movies

where it's like, okay, no, we're making kind of like a comedy. Right. A little more contemporary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's like it's just an homage to those old kung fu movies mostly. Yeah. I'm not too huge on Uguer's.

Spoilers. Uguer's turn into flowers scene. I think like, yeah, I like the music. From the moment I first watched the movie, like even when I don't remember how old I was. What was I, 15 or something? I don't know. Like, it all.

always felt just so out of nowhere where he's just like I'm dying now goodbye I was like fuck I wish like I almost wish that we got like a real death scene but then it's like oh it's a kid's movie you can't do that not like I needed to see graphic violence or anything but it was just he turned into flowers and it's like he consciously decided like okay this is my this is my cue here I'm gonna go it was just that perfect manipulative point in the story where he was like I'm leaving and that was just just like, yeah, the mechanics of the script, like, you had to go. Yeah, at that moment. The villain otherwise. Yeah, that was always kind of, like, goofy to me. But I love the character, like you said, and exactly, you're exactly right about the animation, like the shakiness of the character. It adds a lot of personality.

The way that characters move is very important for animation. Yeah, lots of good pairings, like all the expressive, like the bird movement contrasted to what's the other master's name. who's like a little fox thing who's like really scrappy in comparison and just visually watching them play off like the big chunky po character yeah shefu like training against him and you shifu is a good character they get out of it it's yeah yeah there's like lots of like kind of star wazzy stuff going on like with ugui just turning into like disappearing and the whole like focus on the the mastering and the training and obviously that's inherent in all the kung fu movies

as well but yeah I find that stuff really endearing and is explored in a sure it is in a satisfying way and the universe gets better as the trilogy goes on to me like it feels like they they were sincere about it they cared about it this isn't no B movie monsters versus aliens like this is just a throw away all that matters is the jokes they seem like they felt like they had something here and they kind of leaned into it and it I think it works better emotionally as a as a result of But yeah, the story is actually interesting. It has the element of like the training. You know, he's actually training.

Those are some of the most entertaining parts of the movie, you know, like every training sequence basically, she-food. Like, even just like the dumpling one where they were like fighting over the dumpling. Like, yeah. Yeah, it was like its own little kung fu action scene, but you know, it's still fighting. Yeah. It was like a fucking Stephen Chow thing, you know. Yeah, just as complicated in terms of the animation, you know, like, you. really fast and fun you know that's everything in the movie it's very energetic it has a

has a great energy and a pace yeah they're all super short like this movie's only 90 minutes that's great that's it works in its favor i think they're all the perfect like going through all just like yeah yeah super short and fun you wouldn't want any more from this they kind of stretch it just about yeah as far as they can so like especially if you're talking about like as far as the trilogy is concerned i feel like even though they leave the second one kind of on a cliffhanger the they're struggling for ideas by the time they get to the third a bit more. Sure. The story in this one, I think, is the tightest for me.

Everything about it seems like it serves a purpose. I like that, you know, the fact that he's a panda, he's fat, the food thing, and his heritage at the noodle place and how he eats everything. It just, it turns into his combat style. And if, you know, if you know, kung fu and, martial arts kind of Asian martial arts stuff. It's like they really

like the idea of having like a fighting style of fighting technique that is suited towards like an individual like that's a good kind of like almost kind of tropey thing to put in a film and it works well for the character and it works well for what the movie is.

I love the motivation of the villain and thus the motivation of Master Shifu I think probably the most emotional core part of the movie for me is the flashback sequence where we learned that he had trained him thinking that he would be the dragon master

and then Ugui was like no fuck that shit and I don't like him he could see his evil motivations or something and then I like the idea of like the betrayal of Master Shifu from Ta Lung and you know him having to fight his own son in the conflicts, you know, because he loved him and raised him, but just that sort of internal struggle I connected with.

Yeah. Sure. There's a lot of the themes in it and like, yeah, morals, right? The whole idea of like at the end, there's no secret ingredient, like, you know, there's nothing about him that makes him special. He just, he worked hard and he eventually became the Dragon Warrior, right? It's encouraging. To keep in kids.

It was inside you the whole time. Well, you could do anything. Like, even to, you know, you can do anything as long as you work hard and, you know, he did. Michael Jordan's secret juice. Yeah, I like what that goes. Fuck. You can't bring out Space Jam, man. It's just too distracting.

I'm sorry. I'm sad. Is that what that's from? I don't even know. Yes. The Michael Jordan. Space Jam was a while ago. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I mean, like, yeah, there's Kung Fu Panda. it's short and sweet one thing that we didn't really mention well I guess we kind of mentioned but the composers were was a combo of Hans Zimmer and John Powell which I think was really cool

yeah I think they worked well together better better combo than Hans Zimmer for all Williams that's for sure that's a given that might be the worst combo done some really good too much stuff and like the whole Lion King 2019 soundtrack

was another That was Han Zimmer too Hans Zimmer Ferell William He composed it He came to fix it He came back to fix it Again fucking legendary composer Yeah

Literally yeah Great great scores We had Michael Clark Duncan In the movie Yeah that's right He's like the rhino Yeah He was good

Yeah I love him Lucy Lou Oh yeah Lucy Lou That's another character I just completely forgot So yeah Serpent

mantis and to some extent monkey can all just fuck off holistic X versus sever crane and tigers are like the only two real characters out of the furious life the rest of them can fuck up

yeah basically yeah I like they seem like they had the designs first based off the like fighting style what's your least favorite character Ralph um I don't know I think of that none of them grind your gears the bad guy

the bad guy because he's evil yeah okay He wants to kill everyone So yeah I love Thailand The bad guy's well written Yeah It's like a decent bad guy

Yeah as far as casting It was just Seth Rogen That pulled me out I was like I was waiting Yeah I was saying to myself Hey at least he hasn't done like the laugh Like at least he's not here

Just to do the only like Like two minutes I just did the laugh Is he in any other DreamWorks movies I feel like Yeah he's in the monsters Versalians He's like a blue blob

Oh that's right He's the blob Yeah that's right Oh wow How can I forget Yep Seth Rogen is definitely in the club the least like the least interesting and the least funny

addition to the whole movie so even Lucy Lou being there is kind of like a more interesting shitting all over Seth Rogan well, that makes way in a sense fuck Seth Rogan yeah bring in another like fucking action star or something I don't know Jason Statham would have been better as fucking Mantis

that would have been cool yeah yeah true bit of a rugged voice there not necessarily just Smoke weed Jackie Chan needed to be in it a little bit more Yeah he didn't really have many lines But I think he had like three lines Yeah at the same time I don't know how much Jackie Chan is recognized as a voice actor

Sure but They kind of prioritized to Jay Lee I think It's a little bit of movie Yeah give him some Give him some mocap I don't know Yeah it's a good movie I feel like I don't have a ton of say about it It's a good like solid

animated movie It's solid yeah it's solid like a brick house yeah super solid it is yeah I guess better as a guy that's a good word for it

tight tight tight tight tight tight it's really it's like a super yeah tight film really yeah I really enjoyed it

inoffensive yeah I'll probably watch it again at some point okay let's move on to Kung Fu Panda 2 then but we didn't give our ratings oh good yeah well what do we get Kung Fu Panda 1 then

yeah I want to hear what you rated I want to hear what you read it I really like the first movie a lot. I would give it four stars. I think for what it is, it's everything it needs to be. That action goes above and beyond. It holds up really well for 2008. It's 3D animation.

It's obviously the most aged out of the three. It's the old shot here and there that you just think, yeah, that could definitely be improved big time with the technology. But overall, the writing holds up. The human is pretty good all the way through. it's just really solid. But I just prefer what has come next. Full still.

I feel like I'm right there with you, Alex, in terms of the reading. Cool. Is it as good as How to Train Your Dragon? I don't know. I'd have to watch How to Train Your Dragon again. I like this better than How to Train Your Dragon. You do? Oh, okay.

I feel like I remember that one more. I don't like How to Train Your Dragon very much. I think it's fucking stupid. Ooh, all right. I'm getting shit for that. I think it's awful, yeah. How to train a dragon. The first, really, the thing is off.

It's just a fucking dog. They're just doing, it's a dragon, but it's a dog. And the entire film relies on you being, that makes it a terrible movie. The entire film relies on you going, aw, and that's it. That's the entire movie. It's fucking stupid. If you don't find the dragon cute, then there's nothing for you in the film. The film doesn't work unless you're going, oh, that's the, that's a prerequisite.

You do have to love that thing. Exactly. That's the prerequisite for the film working, which is like just such a, Like, I'm sorry. Anyway, 7 out of 10 for Kung Fu Panda. Good movie. Okay.

So, moving into Kung Fu Panda 2, which is 2011, directed by Jennifer You Nelson. Yeah, it's a follow-up to the first movie, where it's about inner peace. He's trying to find, he's trying to find where in his life it's gone wrong. What he needs to come to terms. with in order to progress as a protagonist. The yin and yang kind of framing is through this new

villain character, a peacock, who used the intro of this one. He gets a, it's kind of like a papercraft's intro that's all like an animated sequence to get the family dynamics going and establish the conflict of this. Yeah, the peacock parents invented fireworks, but his son's all like an ulterior use for them. So there's this whole inventive. weaponry in early China kind of thing going on with the villain which is cool to go up against kung fu yeah so yeah what do we think of the sequel because i i think this movie is kind of just a better version of the first movie i i like that the whole hero's journey stuff's uh dealt with and there's something else going on it's more personal i like the whole uh the villain of the first movie but it

it doesn't connect as much with with poet directly um sure i really like this movie too i like the story i like that it's darker i'm surprised no one's mentioned yet charlie coffman was like involved with like yeah i think i think he at least helped on like polish up the script yeah he definitely did something it used to be called like kung fu panda the kaboom of doom yeah this is this is a prequel to synecti new york actually yeah yeah i there are a few big names that are kind of attached to these movies like Yama del Toros and the credits to this is a producer and it's it's hard to know what really that means at the end of the day like how much like Hoffman like what he wrote is left in here but it's surprisingly thoughtful for um one of these kinds of movies

with the whole inner piece angle and just perfect inverted characters so and just through their conflict like what they learn from each other and especially the villain I feel like this out of this trilogy they each try to establish a really strong villain and this is the villain for the for the po character the the perfect character for him to face because he is just totally inverse to him yeah sure I really like the motivation is coming from his fear of of the future and and Jack Black's character learns to overcome through his kind of overcoming of the past and they've totally each other's odds like you're saying secure.

You're disagreeing. I'm just, you're both saying everything I've ever heard about this movie and everybody I know personally is just like, yeah, the villain, it's so much better and I just, I don't understand.

I'm like struggling to come to terms with, with just how much I don't connect with this movie. I really just nothing, the only thing that was better about this one for me, is like the animation quality. The animation is... You don't like the design of the villain? I mean, the fact that it's like a peacock is like kind of interesting.

Yeah, but... And like, like, knives come out of his feathers and like, yeah, how that's used in the animation, the fight sequences. I'm like, yeah, that's really cool. He has like one of the strongest action scenes in the movie. Ward Chen, yeah, played by Gary Old... Yeah, I thought his voice actor. It's pretty good, too.

Yeah, there's some cool action. It's such a complex. I mean, it really leans into like the kung fu. aspect of it. Like, it really becomes like a, like, almost a really dark action movie. I mean, as far as you can go with like this kind of movie, the DreamWorks movie still. Yeah, it's like super, it was really cool. Like, I liked all that stuff with the villain. I mean, it's, it's flashy. Like, in the sense of like, yeah, the feathers are doing things and that's, it's fun on the screen and kind of like a, I don't know, ADHD thing almost in my opinion. But I never feel intimidated by the villain.

I never feel like the villain is posing any kind of a threat, especially when the villain's main thing is like a big canon that you can literally just walk out of the way at any point in time. Like that's the villain's thing, is just having a big canon, and nobody decides to get out of the way except for parts in the story where they go, oh, and then they realize they can

at like the dramatic moment where it's required. But every other point, they forget that they can just take a step to the side. Like, that's ridiculous. I can't get behind the villain at all. I can't like, I don't really understand. Yeah, I don't like I was telling you how much I connected with the motivations of the of both the villain and the master Shifu conflict in the first movie.

I don't get anything like that in this movie. Like there's the intro and it's basically like, oh, my family did fireworks? And I was like, yeah, did you know you could use fireworks to kill people? And they were like, that's bad. And so they're like, oh, I want to take over the world now because they're angry at me for being evil. I just I don't get anything out of it. He wants to take over the world because of the Sacia character

right. Sorry? The Saseer predicts his future saying his downfall would be through a warrior of black and white or something. Yeah. And it's the ultimate fable of it of basically

him just causing his own downfall if he didn't follow through on the Saseer. Well I mean like that was the that was the first movie because like I mean like would would uh tie lung we've done all those things if fucking uh master ugui didn't uh reject him or you know like everybody is a part of

their own destiny like that was already kind of like a theme in the first movie like the entire escape scene of ta long wouldn't have happened if ugui didn't warn shifu about tai lung escaping like that that was entirely set in motion by ugui and so they were already kind of incorporating that idea of like oh like is this a self-fulfilling prophecy like i didn't get anything new out of the second movie with them doing that i don't know yeah i guess i wouldn't say it is definitely treading familiar ground with that stuff but i just prefer the way it's explored here i prefer that character design i prefer yeah the way it comes out in the action too like ralph you said which were you um pointing to and you said he's part of the one of the best action scenes

in the movie. Is it his like assault on the tower? He's got like a... Yeah, it's like early in the film. Yeah, he's got like a quick fight with that rhino and like another character that says. It's like really quick and you described it as what's kind of ADHD but that's what I like about it is just how quick it's able to move. But without any cuts and keeping it wide, you get to seal that action. Yeah, it doesn't get lost in it to me, which I think is such an achievement with how complex that character design is. and just the restraint of the way they use him. I never once felt intimidated by the villain,

and that's a problem for me. It's like if I'm supposed to feel as though they're a villain and that they're capable of, you know, doing damage to the main characters or the universe, I just didn't understand why. It was like, oh, the story is telling me that they're dangerous, but I didn't feel that they're dangerous. Like, they're scrawny.

their weapons stupid you can't you can stop the cannon by getting out of the way sorry it's more the fear of the technology though right

that's what makes him like scary as a villain is that yeah if it was like a new or like an AK the valley yeah what about like the whole action scene but they have like cannons

lined up and it destroys the whole tower it was just so silly I couldn't get behind it it was just it was just it was it was just one of those things where like especially like poem just like get out of the way and then eventually he learns how to get out of the way but there's nothing that really initiates that he just like oh we're at the point in the story where I can

realize I can get out of the way now well he has his his flashback the flashback like version in this movie is the that whole two D animated sequence with the the panda town being attacked by the whole the whole army in that that commitment to that like genocide angle is It's pretty surprising from this movie, and that's always been something that's draw me more to this, just how they're willing to commit to the kind of darker stuff that does make that villain more intimidating to me, because he's kind of deranged. Like, he commits genocide in the opening, and then he's, like, talking about, he's, like, projecting onto Poe, I can see and say, and, like, your parents never loved you and stuff like this. It's, like, pretty heavy concepts to be throwing around in, like, a comfy pandemic. Definitely.

definitely heavy yeah the 2D animation is good yes it's all it's awesome like how it's yeah it's like that was like the emotional core of the movie like he was trying to go for something like pixar i don't know if it's quite as like pulls at my heartstrings it much i don't think it's as emotional as a pixar movie but you know it almost got there with like that scene the 3d animation was definitely improved i i didn't the the 2d animation sequences i didn't feel were worked as well as the first film. I don't know what it is about them. I'd have to like compare them side by side. I like the two D and they felt a bit more clunky. I like how it's used. It's just used for the flashbacks and like you know telling the story. Yeah. They also just felt like a bit more

obligatory. I thought it was good. I like the I like the use of color. I think like that's really good in these movies and it's like scenes of like you like very heavy like contrasted collars like for the lightings. It's cool. It's like a cool effect. So can we talk about like like the villain's motivation. Can you describe it in a way that like make me feel like it it's all right? Like I don't. It's just I get the whole just evil because they're evil vibe in this one. But in the first movie it was like there was there was like a gigantic justification for like how he was raised and stuff, right? That's, I really connected with that. But I just, is there anything in this movie that describes why they're evil other than they're just like,

oh, I wanted to use fireworks for a weapon and my parents didn't like that. That's it. Well, he's just operating under this fear of losing his power, right? That's, it's just him reacting to this say-seer creating this situation for himself. No, but like why he's like a power-hungry, evil person in the first place. Oh, right. No, I guess it doesn't go that deep in terms of like why he wants to commit genocide. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not trying to, like, I'm glad you're both able to connect with it a lot.

just so much of this film felt like obligatory, you know? It just felt like we're going through a lot of the same beats again, and we are doing these, you know, we have this character because this is necessary, this character because this is necessary, but it wasn't really, it didn't feel as organic, you know, it didn't feel as, like purposeful. It just, everything just felt like, oh, we're, we kind of have to do this sort of thing. I don't know. I didn't, like, I wasn't connecting with, like, the jokes or,

I can't think of, like, a really good joke in this movie. I like the humor in this movie. I feel like it's like a little more subtle. Again, it's going for a darker tone. Like, I feel the Charlie Kaufman influence in it, you know, it used to be called, like, I think I said before, like the title of it was like Kaboom of Doom or something stupid. Like, Kung Fu Panda too, like that's much better. I think that poster, like, just the title much better.

And it feels like a continuation, you know, like you learn about Po and like he wants to find out where he really came from. You know, it's funny in the first one. Like, it really is dad's a goose. like you can't really be goose like where's his panda dad you know and then like even there's a joke in this movie about it too like that it's a good way to take his character and like that you discovered over two movies too like I really like that you know I thought I thought it like it was so funny in the first movie and then they just over explained it over explain I don't

know but if you want to make a sequel you need to do something interesting right you need to like explore the characters in some yeah but this one is just like a little too obvious they could have taken it a different way sure but you know I like the way they took it I think that's differently yeah it seems like a big theme of all the lean into yeah all three of these movies have this theme of like mentorship or like almost fatherhood you know yeah especially the third the reason why the joke was so funny in the first movie is because they didn't address it you know because it that was that was a part of the misdirection is you think that he's gonna say oh you're adopted but he he doesn't say that he he'd

said another line right that's what that's what made the joke work well in the first movie is because it wasn't acknowledged and then the first thing they do in the sequel is like okay we're going to make the entire plot about this you know reccon it it it's like it's such a sequel thing to do like leave no stone unturned sort of thing yeah the way they took it yeah it doesn't seem like that much of a stretch to me though like that's who knows where he came from is like if he's his father figure he has to have like started at some point being his father figure so that doesn't that doesn't seem like a stretch to me for that information to come from him and for the to lean into that whole joke because it is a funny joke it's one of the funnier

like gags in the movies so it just continues and that they're playing it so straight so serious with this like goose father with like all the musical beats and everything and his dad's like still really passionate about him that's one of the funnier jokes to me just like the commitment to the absurdity that's that's what I like about comfy pandas whenever they do that while at the same time having this like villain who's committing genocide and there's a you know like a threat to the whole world and it's like a tyrant. I think that's fun.

They're able to make the both work. There was a part near the beginning where they made a joke, but it was like almost at the expense of like the first movie's plot or Master Shifu's like, Po, the day you're chosen as a dragon warrior was the worst day of my life so far. But like we saw it. What about when your son tried to kill you or when you tried to have tried to kill Like, I'll kill your own son.

It's like, what? Mm-hmm. It's like, I don't know. I know, it's like the gag shouldn't come at the expense of, like, the universe is what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that one. It's like, it's like a late Simpsons joke, you know? Like, nobody cares anymore. It's a wait simpson show.

Yeah, like after season 15. Yeah. Some of these criticisms I agree with. Yeah, I don't think it's perfect. You know, I don't think it's as good as, like, some of Pixar's best movies. Like, that's how I feel anyway. Yeah, I really connect with the story on this one. Yeah, yeah, I'm right there with you.

I just appreciate just the main arc of Poe and how it contrasts with the villain. I just think it's really well done. And having, like, the villain killed by his own creation. I like that detail in the final fight with Poe. Like, he doesn't actually hit him once. Like, he just dodges out of the way. So Shem winds up killing himself, like, reinforcing his whole, like, prophetic angle. and how he's just made it all happen to himself.

And he pulls this expression when his weapon comes and falls down on him and completes him and it's, well, finishes him off, it kills him. And it's like the one time he shows any kind of peace or, like, he's come to accept his own fate when he's always, like, fighting his, this future that he's just made exists for himself. I just think it's surprisingly thought-provoking for a movie like this. Sure, yeah, it is. And just that Gary Oldman performance too, I think Without him they would have struggled to characterize him as strong as they do

But that performance, they're just able to bring so much Like passion into that animation Yeah, I'll agree with that. It just comes together really well. Yeah, that's memorable. Super, super expressive film. Yeah, good performance for the villain for sure. I don't think that there's like a single scene or sequence in this film

that matches the cinematography of some of the scenes in the first film. You know, when I was talking about, like, how the camera follows the action, especially in the Ta-Lung escape sequence, like, just the way that things are shot. Like, I never got that in this movie. Sure. Like, that's such an important aspect. It just wasn't there. I think generally I prefer the action in the second movie.

that I do think that that bridge in the in the first movie is like a standout action scene with the like Furious five versus Lange. Mm-hmm. That like as far as like peak action to me outside of that prison escape, that's like those are the two from that movie. Whereas I do like the whole like boat siege at the end with the coming right after the reveal of the kind of emotional gut punch of his backstory of being revealed of like, what happened to his parents and them actually committing to, like, his family being destroyed and where that takes him next. And the way it's, like, edited and the kind of crescendo, the buildup to the way that final action scene kind of comes together.

I like that more than the way that first movie comes together, where the once Poe kind of figures out and has to win, it makes the villain more of like a joke. it takes away all that fear you built up in with him like in that final conflict and when Poe's like throwing him into the air and slamming him into the ground and leaving like cartoonish holes where he was like I just think where they take the villain in two

is just way more way darker, way more serious and they treat it seriously the whole time and his character. I think I think it's sillier to just like eventually invent the idea of getting out of the way of the fucking. It's just moving to the same. I think that's so much

sillier. I've never intimidated by the entire fucking film. I think it's just I don't understand why characters don't know how to just step to the side until the end of the movie. I see it more as like it's him

it's them beating the technology in that moment. Like if he's able to redirect like the power, it's more of like a visual like representation of him overcoming his past. so he's able to, yeah, I guess.

I'm sorry. I'm glad I re-experienced it just to remember that I don't like it. But five out of ten for me. Yeah, I don't know. I'm surprised he didn't like it more because, you know, the Charlie Kaufman influence on the script.

Oh. I didn't really, I, yeah. The name's there. I don't really feel that watching it, though. Yeah. He just polished it up. But, you know, like, I feel it is thoughtful. I like Poe finding inner peace.

And there's a lot of, like, um, callbacks, I guess. It's good. I'd probably give it the same. Yeah, I don't know what you'd rate it, Alex. I'd probably give it, like, the same as the first one. Like, eight out of ten is what I'm thinking right now. Yeah, I'd get this one of the Madagascar. Like a nine for me.

Yeah, I get that, yeah. I just think once the, once the intro is done, that first. five minutes once the setup's done it's just non-stop like that pacing it's like fire it just really works for me the way the way it builds and the way just the yin and yang story like builds up and that action too and it is it is kind of funny of like looking at it under the the lens of this was around that time they're really trying to push the 3d in the dream works movies so and you can see it and so in like certain shots where they've framed it around that.

I kind of like it in certain shots. It seems like they're playing with the composition in a specific way to draw your eye to certain points to enhance that 3D, and I suppose that could be distracting, but I don't really mind how that comes together for me. Yeah, they were throwing a lot of stuff at you for other shots like that. I thought the movie looked great, yeah.

I think the animation is slightly better than the first one. It's kind of hard to tell because the way it's designed, I feel like the hair is like more detailed. Like I was just trying to pick up on things like that. Yeah. Like just the way, yeah, like the way light bounces off hair and stuff like that. Just that kind of technology just improves so much. Sure, just a little more elaborate, right. But, you know, the designs everything are very simple.

It's kind of like the dream work style, I guess. Yeah, I thought, yeah. I really like the design of the villain and like a lot of what they did with that villain. I think he's probably my favorite one of the three. I like the first villain, too, though. That action scene on the bridge is great in the first one. That's probably the best action scene, the most memorable. But yeah, the peacock, and this is cool.

Do either of you feel like they kind of had the gimp poe for this movie? Because he was like, he learned how to fight and became like an expert and was like, I just have to incorporate food by the end of the first movie. but then in order for them to have like, oh, silly training scene with Tigris and Poe, they kind of have to like make him forget how to fight again? Like, is that not kind of weird? You think it's like a Matrix situation? We've got to take him down a notch in the sequels.

Well, yeah, I mean, like, they're kind of just undoing things that were already established. That's kind of how it felt to me anyway. Like, oh, now he has to be weak again. Like, so many of the fight scenes revolved around being like silly. right whereas like I loved so much about the fight scenes in the first movie you know the creativity and the camera work

the sound design you know the choreography but in this film it was just like oh the jokes are in here and that's what it felt like the priority was but the jokes weren't even that funny but anyway five out of ten I will agree the action leans way more

what you're saying about the second one's how I feel about the first one I feel like the jokes and like Heather and Cork brave so much better than the second one. Yes, that's one of the reasons like for the second, too. Yeah. It's like total opposite for me. You're all wrong.

Yeah, it doesn't matter. I'm never going to watch it again, so. Time for the trilogy to wrap up with Kung Fu Panda 3, 2016, five years after the second one. Slightly different director combo this time. It was back to being two directors. I didn't mention the first one was. to Mark Osborne, John Stevenson.

But Jennifer Yu Nelson returned for three alongside Alessandro Carlone. To wrap up the trilogy, I mentioned at the end of Confu Panda 2. There's a tease that the Panda Village is out there somewhere, which gives the jumping off point for three, where Poe's dad shows up, Brian Cranston shows up, and has some secrets to reveal. Yeah, yeah. You know, in the second one, like when they were showing him,

Like, that's not Brian Cranston, is it? Because, you know, his dad's in the second one for a little bit, like a very small amount. Yeah. But in this one, he's like, Brian Cranston. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because, you know, they didn't really give the dad, like, a character in that one because they didn't have time. Like, there's a ton of other things going on. So now, like, this one, they actually molded more of a character for him.

Like, the dad is, yeah. He's, like, back in town or he's never been in the town. But he's in town to just find his son. Yeah, they meet, like, the dumpling house. Yeah, and it's about like the two dads, like, arguing over how much time, like, they should spend with Po. I don't know. I thought that angle was probably the strongest part of the movie, like the fatherhood aspect of it. A lot like the Indiana Jones movie, the third one.

Whatever it was. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good, like, emotional core for this story, too. I thought that really worked about it. Yeah, I was concerned that going to this. like Panda Village could undo the intensity of what they set up into in terms of like that whole village being attacked.

Yeah, it's such a big part of two is like him finding his childhood or like rediscovering like what happened to his parents. Yeah, yeah. They do commit and his mom still stays. Oh, yeah. Stays gone whereas the dad doesn't. Yeah, the peacock guy, the villain. Yeah, again, like he killed his mom.

Like, it's pretty messed up. Yeah, it's, I don't know, I'm torn in this. movie I feel like as you're saying Adam with the by the end of that second one they are kind of already repeating things and they're kind of struggling in terms of like what to make poe going through the motions repeating the hero's journey I feel in this one more though in the third one it's kind of a dream works trope also to do the like oh the missing parents like one of the parents or both of the parents weren't in the previous movies but now they've been found or they've come back like the house train of dragon franchise did that.

the same thing. Leave no stone unturned. Yeah, so it seems like they're pulling out their box of tracts. Oh yeah, that's right. I do remember the trailer of like the third one, right? Like, they find her mom or his mom or something. Yeah. One of them. Yeah. They do it with here. Yeah. So when you already have the tropes.

It is really kind of an incredibly lazy way to take a story, isn't it? At this point especially for like a kid's sequel thing? Like, how many times has that been done? That seems like one of the most obvious lazy things ever. Yeah, I don't know.

What happened in to me? Like, the third one he finds his twin brother. It's like, okay, that's the same thing. His twin brother. Exactly. You know, here it feels, again, like, I like that in the first one, it's his father is a goose. So they have to like, they didn't have to explain it, but they chose to go that way. And they had to commit, right?

They had to tell a story with that. And, you know, it wouldn't have really fit in the second one. That was one of the nicer things about part two as well was the like, like, you I like the way the fatherhood aspect was explored and he comes to embrace his goose dad by the end, like, you know, learning to not be defined only by his past and that he's, if he lives in the present, he can, you know, accept what he does have, which is a family, which is his goose dad. Whereas, yeah, it feels familiar to, like, oh, Brian Cranston's here. Now, now we can do the, like, dad conflict thing and make the dad jokes because everyone in the audience is going to like that.

or the parents that have been dragged into it's like something they'll enjoy yeah exactly it's like i can just handle po when he's the only panda and that kind of repetitive humor that's all based around him like hey he's fat and lazy but that's only funny when it's contrasted against like the total opposite so taking him to a village of like just hundreds of pose um it's not really my favorite they're all like the same joke yeah the whole panda village thing is something that could really fall flat. I think that's like a big risk. And I feel like they did redesign it a bit from like what they showed in the second one,

just from like that brief image. They're like in the mountain somewhere in the snow. But you know, like it actually kind of worked for the most part, I think, like the Panda Village. They introduced a lot of characters there and some of them were there for like little jokes, but some of them were there a bit too long and it got kind of annoying. There's like the girl panda. was like a love interest for Poe I think they were trying to do at the point yeah that was kind of just weird and like she was in the movie too much it was kind of unnecessary I get what they

were trying to do yeah I don't know what that was yeah at the end of the movie she like uses her ribbons to like stop the villain right they all have their thing yeah that was to help po at the end kind of a yeah she used her ribbons like stop like some of them rolled over yeah but yeah she was like mostly unnecessary and you know like I was just like a weird scene with like She's dancing with Po and the ribbons. I don't know. I like that all the pandas helped him at the end. I feel like that's what the movie was about, like, you know, the family and teamwork.

Their family, like, you know, Fast and Furious. It's like that. Yeah. Now we can make Poet teacher sort of thing. Kind of story. Yeah. Next place to take his character. Except better done than Fast Furious at this point.

Well, yeah. Yeah. Doesn't take too much. I thought that the jokes in this film were like mildly funnier than the second one, honestly. I thought that the humor worked at it. You know what? I got the sense that this was definitely like, it was going much more for a comedic tone than the second one was.

It was like going more goofy, I think. Master Chicken? I think. That was pretty funny. Yeah, I like the Master Chicken. There were like a lot more jokes. It was more lighter. It was much lighter.

Yeah, that's part of also what I didn't like as much, whereas in that first and second movie, there are scenes where it's like, wow, this is surprisingly working on like a character level. They're getting like emotional weight. Yeah, this one's just... Yeah, sure. Yeah, exactly.

It's just like the villain, his whole thing is that he's a joke. I barely remember the villain. It was J.K. Simmons, right? Yeah, J.K. Simmons. Yeah, he's like a big ox. Yeah, what the fuck? Easily the least memorable villain for sure. Sure.

That's how I feel like... The second I looked up, it was J.K. Simmons, I'm like, oh, yeah, I can hear the voice. Yeah. Gary Oldman put on far more of a performance, I feel like. I thought he was... Yeah, doesn't it. I feel like the first two villains Even in the first movie

I feel like those are better villains This is the second DreamWorks trilogy Where Brian Cranston shows up In the third movie You're right That's funny Yeah So incestuous that we're using the same voices

And everything The same Seth Rogen's and everything Go-Dem What's the other one? He shows up in Madagascar He's the new tiger Oh I don't even remember that

Yeah we watched those movie I don't know why it's The second one's the best one The third one's probably the best the Madagascar. Oh, you're... But, you know, even this movie. What, I'm...

Yeah, I think I changed my opinion on those. Oh, damn, okay. Yeah. The second one's really stupid. I just kept to get back to, like, the Modo. It's fucking stupid. Like, yeah, that movie's terrible. It's pretty bad.

These are much better than, like, that. I like this trilogy of films much more... They're far more engaging, and, like, they actually try. these are really trying they have a story yeah like the second one and yeah this third one it pretty much

tied up everything perfectly I felt and you know like it was getting kind of old like you were saying like it's getting kind of still you're feeling like the wear of like this is the third movie and they concluded it right here basically aside from some series

which I haven't seen we can talk about maybe if you have but you know it's not like I feel like they did everything they could with it and they wrapped it up nice and like Now we can, yeah, then they moved on other things. It's like a perfect little trilogy of films.

And they're all super short. I think that works in favor of it, but the pacing's really quick. Yeah, the third one's actually the longest one. I mean, yeah, sure, sure. Could have lost the musical number at the end, maybe. So it's unnecessary. Singing Kung Fu Fighting. I actually enjoyed the first half of this movie.

The second half, it got really, really fucking boring. but in the first half of this movie they were actually points in it where I was like oh okay like at least in my mind in my opinion there were parts that kind of like improved on some of the criticisms that I had with the second film

so like in the second film I mentioned like yeah it's kind of weird that he starts out as you know in the first movie they concluded him as like the warrior who knows how to fight he just uses food or whatever then they kind of have to undo that for the second film without explaining it just so they can have the funny

trading scenes. But in this film, it's kind of part of the plot. Like, it's a part of his character arc to have to undo his warrior mentality and come to terms with like, oh, okay, well, this is, maybe there's something good about just being a panda. Maybe there is something positive to look at in being clumsy or fat or, you know, it was more consciously understanding that he had been trained into this warrior thing. And they use that as part of the plot of being like, okay, we need to unlearn that now. That kind of made more sense for me. I have in my notes that his arc was like fairly clear with like him.

It was about him becoming like a teacher, which I kind of liked because that seemed like the next logical progression in terms of like, you know, student to master sort of thing. It felt like it was building off of where we started in the first film, you know, as a logical progression, a logical arc, I guess. Yeah. There was some good lighting and. color choices, like, especially in the trading pandas montage. It felt like, uh, like cool and stylized without feeling like low budget or weird. Yeah, I like some of the jokes. I like the stuff in the like spirit world towards the end.

Yeah. As far as spectacle actions concerned. Yeah, yeah. The few times in the movie they're able to do something a bit kind of grander than the previous ones. Because you want to feel like there's some kind of escalation to the, the trilogy. It's kind of the, it's the best thing. the villain in the third one brings is that

link to that kind of spirit world, the visuals that brings. They give an actual payoff that's connected to the first film too because he becomes a real manifestation of the dragon warrior, right? Like, that's cool that they... Yeah, that's a good moment. Yeah.

Some satisfaction to that. But yeah, most of the second half of this movie is just super forgettable and unspecial and boring. Yeah, when they're just trapped in the village for ages And like the B plot with the five like investigating stuff It's just It grinds to a halt at a certain point And it's like, okay

Even though this is like an hour and 30 It shouldn't be dragging like this I stopped taking notes for a good chunk of it I was just kind of like passively like Not not invested until At the end I commented on How Po kills himself with the Wooshy Fingerhold and just grabs Kai

and that sends them to the secret world like what? That doesn't make any sense. Just like no setup for that. Yeah. Like I'll kill, if you touch someone when you kill yourself.

Like, okay. You take that into the spirit world. Yeah, that is never like established at all is it. I'd rather just have him like jump off a cliff with him. I don't know. Might not want to show kids that.

Yeah, it was a weird choice to have that. because I guess he's on paper he's like the most intimidating villain in terms of like just real strength but they like write him to be a joke and like no one knows who he is so no one's scared of him

that's like an ongoing thing just trying to make it a little more interesting by adding comedy in there because he's not that interesting of a villain yeah I like the spirit world connection yeah I like that the turtles back in it yeah he's not in the second one

yeah and even Master Shif who's barely in the second one. I think they were expecting the intimidation aspect to come from all of the, uh, all of the spirits that he had controlled, I guess. Just like, oh no,

now the other people that are strong are fighting against me now. My friends. Yeah. Which I, yeah, I feel like that's another like animation cliches, like the, you know,

the evil version of your friends type thing. Yeah, that too. Seth Rogen. He was in this too. And that's like, yeah, When you beat the bad guy, all the gems go back, so like everything's undone.

It's like permanence or anything. It's like Avengers, yeah. All the aliens die, you know. Yeah, like the, or the, even the White Walkers at this point, yeah. Yeah, it's just that. Like you kill one, and then they all, yeah, everything, all the damage they did is undone. Yeah, it used to be a kid's movie's cliche, but now things for adults like Game of Thrones do it. we're like

Avengers even even though that's for like man babies yeah the um despite this one coming out so much after later than the second film like there isn't a noticeable

difference in animation quality the jump from one to two was a noticeable improvement animation wise yeah but this one it's just it there's I can't tell the difference and that's kind of weird yeah it's only very slight

I guess it's the pro and con of the ultra-styled tack they went for. It could be kind of, yeah, it works both ways because I reckon it makes Kungpanda 2 age much more gracefully. And they've gone with this kind of style, as opposed to something like monsters versus aliens or whatever. It just looks creepy as well. A B-moving and shit, like that era of this kind of animation. Mega mind.

Yeah. Actually, Maca-Mind doesn't look too bad. like boss babies like their temple series now. Yeah, it's a sad one. Yeah, definitely, especially compared to this. This is like much more, I don't know, I liked these when I saw them and I was younger. They were like super entertaining. Yeah, and I remember a lot, especially about the first one, I remembered a lot.

But, you know, watching the second one now, I'm like, yeah, this is really good. Like, it's going for something different and it's dark. And the villains are pretty good. Even J.K. Simmons, like, it's cool to get Jake. King Simmons it's just his characters so yeah he's got a good voice but the jokes are lines yeah he's got a good voice just the jokes are kind of lame yeah that whole running joke no one knows who he is yeah like you know like he said the gems like it's like okay well he who gives her shit you know yeah especially

when they just threw in a villain because they needed a threat not because it was like organic you know like Gary Oldman's like maybe he's less intimidating because he's not really supposed to be intimidating he's like he just has a big weapon he's like a spoiled asshole you know he has like the most powerful as well though he's like the reason he has the yeah that's true trauma whereas this guy in the third he's his only link is to uguer who died two movies ago we've got some like packed or something that's 500 year packed i don't know it's just like oh just come up something yeah and i was thinking like how many people

Kung Fu Panda 3 are like they actually know the story like at that point because it's pretty like long after the second one came out I think it was like yeah a couple yeah it's like how why they leaned more into the whole like kiddie like oh the kiddie panda aspect like maybe like toy story three yeah or anything like yeah if you go from like 2008 when the first one was to 2016 that's like a good amount of years like basically into the next generation so I can't really blame toy story really helps because like every one of those characters is great and I really remember them.

And, you know, there's a, there's a few great characters of Kung Fu Panda, but I don't think it held up as well. Like, people didn't remember them as much. And yeah, the, the kitty tone, they really lean into the kitty, like, goofy jokes again. It felt more like the first one. It felt like a producer came in, like, make it more fun. That second movie was too dark. He's like genocide and murder. We don't want that, you know.

it's almost like the last Star Wars film not a Rise of Skywalker the original trilogy after Empire Strikes Back was Return of a Jedi yeah it felt like

like after that it felt like a kiddier like friendlier movie and it took a little a few less risks I think although some of it was pretty strong again like the best parts of the shit I get a message The best part was the emotional stuff

Like his dad Yeah What is this? I'm just like Look at the poster For the third movie The weight is over Yeah

Yeah And like And like And like And like Look at the bottom Right It's over

It's a fat joke Oh yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah That was a weird addition. Taking the whole panda village so far.

Yeah. Yeah. How far can we take this panda humor? It's a weird poster. That's dumb and fat. That's it. That's face he's making on the bottom right. That's like too much.

I'm glad they changed the title, the second one there. It was going, it probably would have had the same tone as this one. It would have been like a goofier movie, but they're probably like, that's too goofy. Let's bring in like Charlie Kauf and make it like a little more interesting. Guillama Deltura Yeah They needed like Guillemadal Tor to come in and work on this

That would have paid a bunch of Yeah Bring in Noah Baumbach's Kung Fu Panda 3 Noah Bomb Backs Kung Fu Panda 3 Hell yeah He could have made the third movie work

He could have done it The Titan director for Kung Fu Panda 4 Oh Julia Dukuzno You're like really weird That'd be great Yeah definitely You need both going around

It did have something going on with the music, though, and I'd forgotten about this, but for some reason, Imagine Dragons is, like, credited. Many themes from the score contain portions of the garage rock song. I'm so sorry by the American pop rock band Imagine Dragons. I think it's like the villain theme. You know, the dung, dang, dang, da, dang.

I think that's from, like, an Imagine Dragon song. Oh, fuck, probably. Oh. Interesting. Super weird. That is super weird. I wonder why. I don't.

I don't know why. There's such a like corporately friendly band. It's so weird. Uh-huh. It is really weird. Put them in your movie. I really mentioned, like, it's set in China. And China loves these movies.

They're like huge in China, huge overseas. And I read something about the first two didn't have direct like Chinese funding or involvement but I think the third one does which also might be a reason that it's a bit more like toned down and yeah they filmed it in uh weager concentration camps yeah yeah uh it definitely felt kidnier the part with him grabbing his own finger that was that was pretty ridiculous it like kills himself yeah it's like a different level He's like, okay, that's how he figured it out. How do you know that would even work?

What if that didn't work? He's just disappeared. Yeah, yeah. Have you tried this before? Yeah. They needed to set it up or something. Yeah, he needed to like read about it. So weird.

You know. But yeah, it's like, who gives a shit? It's like, it's for little kids. That's what they would think of probably. Yeah. Who cares? Yeah, exactly. It's just like whatever.

Yeah, who cares is concrete. The emotion is more important. Yeah, I forgive it more in those first two. Like, I'm not looking for 100% logical consistency in Kung Fu Panda, but I think the third one doesn't really try as hard. And that's just my opinion on it, like, in terms of everything. Yeah, the poster. They're all there. Yeah, all the pandas are there.

Fun fact. Master Ugui is the keymaker from the Matrix Reloaded. Oh, cool. bring it full circles the matrix which we'll talk about next episode that awesome character yeah there's a video game for this movie I think yeah

yeah there's like a connect game I think I should play those I have it but I haven't played it yet I bought a bunch of shitty connect games I'll do that at some point there's like there's something about this franchise it's the reason that I rediscovered it is because of all these like the little panda photo rip off chop kick panda panda warrior

with Rob Schneider. For some reason, there's like, Kung Fu Panda is just like a big one. Like, to rip up with a video game because like the fighting aspect, yeah,

the kung fu. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like, really the Kung Fu part of it's super strong. That's like the hook, I think.

So it makes it work. Like, even the fact that they're animals, like, it's their reason, it's a reason they're animals. They're, you know,

it's an homage to that style. Like those, those styles of martial arts. People fought crane style and tiger style. Yeah, Like, it just makes sense for the story. Like, everything about it makes sense.

Yeah, it's just a fun concept. And, yeah, like, there's some really good characters, like, in this whole trilogy. I like Brian Kranson in the movie, fine. You know, I didn't think he was... I probably liked the goose character more. I guess because you just have... I've had more time with that character, like, to develop him. Yeah.

Yeah, I try the goose. Yeah, it's still not as strong as, like, a Pixar film. Even this one. I like the Toy Story trilogy more, I'd say. It's better than the good dinosaur. The emotions hit home. Yeah, or the good dinosaurs. A piece of fucking garbage that movie.

With dumpster fire. Apparently. That's like one of Pixar's worst. Apparently there was a character in this film called Big Fun, played by Wayne Knight. I don't remember that. Big Fun. That's what it's saying on IMDB. there was a panda with like weird teeth you know he had like fucking really messed up oh did he play

the mentally handicapped oh like what was that joke oh yeah yeah was that was that was that way night was to be the handicapped yeah yeah oh okay it was the one with the fucked up teeth you can see his face oh my god it's just it just stood out to me like what was that yeah like that was so weird some of the pandas in there definitely the ribbon jesus and and that panda Yeah, Kate Hudson playing May May. Right, Kate, Kate, so yeah, Kate Hudson, that's right. I saw her name in the credits. They're like, really, Kate Hudson play that character?

You know, she didn't even do much. Like, she's better at almost famous, that's for sure. Yeah. Great movie. When I was reading about, like, this movie, I found this, like, if we had article, that was like, yeah, Kate Hudson to replace Rebel Wilson and Kung Fu Panda 3. I was reading all this stuff about how they had all these completed scenes ready with, like, Rebel Wilson's previous performance.

But when they cast Kate Hudson, they like reanimated a bunch of stuff for that performance, you know, for all that like ribbon twirling stuff. So it's nice to know that like, that must be such a point. Imagine being one of those animators. You've already done the Rebel Wilson like scene and then,

oh no, she's been recast. Like we've got to do it all again, guys, slightly different because Kate Hudson's doing it now. Yeah, it's just the voice. They start to reanimate. I guess it's like a different performance. So yeah.

Keep the old Sonic design. The most minute lip animation, right? Like, you have to change all of that shit. Yeah, like the animation is really good, I think, in this. And in all of them. Yeah. Yeah, so it was very, really hard close. It's pretty.

I think it's strong. And yeah, like the music is strong. The audiovisual aspect is still there. The action scenes are still good. I don't know. It's hard to beat like some of the scenes in the second. one and the first one like the villain escaping is his you know prison in the first one yeah it never reaches the peaks in one no i don't think so um it's still really good though yeah i really like to

does there much else to say about the third one i feel like i have the most to say about the second one that's just how i feel it's just like even the charlie coffman aspect of it that was like really weird to hear about yeah yeah really odd yeah yeah It's a movie that was boring in the second half. But actually, yeah, the first half I was like pleasantly surprised almost. I was like, oh, this is fine. It definitely was aiming to be more of like a dumb comedy thing, but I thought it was fine for what it was.

Still, yeah, with both the second and third film for me, there's nothing in either of them that compares to the cinematography or sequences in the first film in terms of presenting action in a visual way. yeah this one was a little disappointing in that sense also but yeah it was uh forgettable you know i'm never going to watch it again five out of ten for me yeah yeah i'm slightly above that i give it a three three star it's kind of more what you'd expect from the title like concrete panda whereas i feel like the other two managed to avoid like how bad the premise seems but it's okay it's just it could be bad on paper right but i think they make it

work. It's really the animation and some of the voice acting, the kung fu, the yeah, they really make it work. This one, you feel the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the third movie. It gets a little stale, but, like, this is, like, I'm glad they just ended it with this one. It's, like, a solid trilogy of movies, yeah, like, I don't regret watching them at all, like, again, I'm like, oh, those are pretty good. They have a good story. Um, I'd probably go slow, um, I'd probably go slightly higher than you, Alex, like three and a half. It's not like significantly worse than the other two either, I don't think. They're like solid trilogy of like animated movies. I really like them.

I think they're really good. And like, yeah, Dreamworks get shit on all the time for like some of their really bad movies or like the pop culture references. There's hiring celebrities for no reason. And like these are pretty good. Like this is an example of something like they should be proud of, you know. They were good movies for the most part. Yeah. Like there's a lot of celebrities in them. And all of them, you know, they're pretty good aside from Seth Rogen and go fuck himself. But like, like most of the celebrities in here, like, and they should have used Jackie Chan more, even in this one.

But that's it. Like, most of them are good. Like, Angelina Jolie's good. Jack Black's actually really good. Like, I didn't talk about him enough. But yeah, he's like perfect for this part, I think. Like, he was great. He always seemed really into it.

Yeah. And it wasn't like a distrable. distracting performance from him, I don't think. He was always, he always seemed really into the Poe character, right? Yeah. So, good movie, what, three and a half out of five. That's what I'd give it. Yeah, good-ass trilogy.

Yeah, good recommendation, I guess. Yeah. Better than Madagascar. We did it. We've done another one. Are we just going to move on? How can we move on? So in movie news...

I don't know if Jack Black has seen them. Or I don't know if Jack Black's in them. Sorry, that's what I'd say. We can do a couple of the movie news things if we want. Yeah, yeah, you have some movies. That's good. What's happened? Paul Figue is very upset because...

The Ultimate Ghostbusters... Ultimate Gift Set has all the Ghostbusters movies, including the new one, but not the 2016 film. And so he's... He posts... publicly on Twitter. At Sony Pictures. I know this must be a mistake.

We do have a lot of fans. And Bill, Dan, and Ernie were in it. And it won the Kids' Choice Award for Best Feature Film the year it came out. So I guess this was just an oversight. Hashtag, we are all Ghostbusters. What was he thinking? It's more embarrassing,

just making that tweet. You could just not make that. I guess we got rid of the dislike bar. I used to always go back on the dislike bar of like the original Ghostbusters trailer. Yeah, you can't do that anymore. Like a shit ton of dislikes. So many. People hate that movie. I mean, it's terrible. It deserves

to hate. It's a piece of garbage. Yeah, it's a Paul Figue movie. That one in particular is fucking garbage. Like, so bad. Yeah. Yeah. Did he think he was going to, like, start a movement?

Like a Snyder-esque. Yeah. Like, yeah, we're going to get representation for this movie. Yeah. Yeah. He's a little stories about Josh. He's like, this is a part of the canon. Like, I don't even give shit, really.

I just think it's funny that he's complaining about it on Twitter. Where is a company, surely? They want a distance. Yeah, yeah. Have any of us even seen the new one? I kind of forgot there was a new ghost busters that came out. No. Yeah, I haven't seen it.

No one gives a shit. I was going to ask about Josh Sweden if you guys heard about what he said He was like responding to the I saw it trending this Joe Sweden Yeah, it's pretty stupid what he said to It's not even worth talking about Is it not really, no, he's like an idiot

He's just an asshole Right He's just a lying asshole He's basically like Gallagoro Can't speak English Like he's like That was his excuse It's like some shit like that

That's why it was a Fucking jerk Yeah he's like I wasn't harassing him by You can't speak English English. It's not a first language. That's really funny. That's great. Yeah. He's an ass one of them.

Yeah. That's my movie news. That's all I heard about. Ghostbusters Afterlife has a 7.3 on IMDB and a 45 metascore. Yeah. It's directed by Jason Reitman. That is weird. That one is pretty bad. Yeah.

With the like Stranger Things kid and it doesn't. I have no interest in that. Paul, Paul Rod, Ant-Man's in it. Yeah, Ant-Man, that's a lot of thinking about. Yeah, I'm never going to watch it. It's not really up my alley, so. Another thing,

Alex, you briefly mentioned this on your jarcast, I think. We got a response from the Rock to... Yeah. Vin Diesel. You know about this, Ralph? Oh, that people have actually...

God, this is so complicated at this point people have like uploaded articles like dictating the whole timeline oh great oh my god awesome obnoxious there's so much there's the latest drama mondays on a wednesday dwayne the rock johnson accuses vin diesel of manipulation is it this one yeah yeah oh shit it makes sense accusing vin diesel of manipulation for taking to social media to request he returned to the fast and furious franchise. Johnson, who said in the past, he would not return to the action-packed series as Luke Hobbs,

told CNN in a new interview that he was surprised by Diesel's November post, because they already had discussed in private, Johnson's permanent departure. So, he was going on social media trying to get the rock to, I guess, use his public, like, clout, his, like, followers

on Instagram to try and get the rock to try and pressure him into doing another baby? Yeah, can everybody just harass the rock into assigning this contract for a multi-million dollar films and satire I do find it funny why does he not want to return

I thought this like Luke Hobbes like the Hobbs Shore movie that came out a few years I thought that was like a huge success why is he jumping shit on the highest paid actor in Hollywood he got so he I'm willing to bet he got a lot more for red notice than he would from a fast and furious movie but so is that all he is then he just chases wherever he can get the biggest

I don't know, probably. I guess all the same. What is the rock? Really what is the difference between a Fast and Furious movie and RedNode? Maybe he just doesn't want to work with Vin Diesel because he's manipulative. Like, I don't know. But maybe that's part of the beef is that like, it's like, Vin sees it as his franchise. And it's like...

Then be in it. The rock butts, butts heads with him. Kind of the name is that. Vincent? I doubt it. This is real name. Vincent Diesel. Vincent.

Yeah, that post of them is so weird. And like, Dwayne Johnson is like, he looks smaller than the rock, like, just the way the photo is. Oh, yeah. I think they, like, stretched Finn Diesel out, like, you know, posts. It's just how it looks, you know. I could be wrong. It just looks like that. And yeah, that's on Vin Diesel's official Twitter.

Damn, but he, as far as, like, the manipulation goes, there's more. Vin's recent public posts was an extreme example of his manipulation. I didn't like that he brought up his chin. children in the post as well as Paul Walker's death. Johnson explained, leave them out of it. God. Yeah, he's just trying to manipulate the rock. It's so weird.

Yeah, as much as we can clown on the rock, I mean, it is pretty fucking manipulative. Yeah, it's hilarious. It's hilarious. It's nothing. It's like, see if they'd had a conversation privately, you know? It's so fucking. Yeah, you did this publicly, Vincent Diesel.

It's nothing but manipulative. How can it be interpreted in any other way? Hobbs can't be played by no other. Double negative. Yeah, I'm sure the Rock is losing sleeper. So fucking stupid. Yeah, well, that was it. That's, uh, just wanted to give a little follow up on, uh, the, uh, epic drama between

Vin Diesel and the Rock. As it unfolds, yeah. Yeah, we'll, we'll keep you up. updated with all the latest news on Vin Diesel and the Rock drama. Yeah, their drama. Yeah. It's infinite. It's so ridiculous.

It's so absurd. Yeah, it's funny as fuck. Last little movie news thing before we move on to question. Just something kind of interesting. As of the end of last year, HBO Max has cracked the top 10 list of most downloaded US apps of 2021. So other things, it's not just streaming service. It's number one's TikTok.

Number two is Instagram. Number three, Snapchat. Number four is cash app. Five is Zoom. Six is Messenger. Seven is Facebook. Eight is WhatsApp. Nine is YouTube.

And 10 is HBO Max. That's pretty crazy. So their whole like double theater thing seems to have paid off. Yeah. At least in that way, sure. Yeah. Seems like they're making less money from theaters. But yeah, a lot of people have the app.

I have it. I was watching Peacemaker. Yeah. I'm trying to get the app, but it won't let me in Canada. Even though I have the subscription service on my Xbox. Not yet. No, not until like 2026 for us.

Alex, you'll get it. Oh, really? Holy fuck. Because they have the licensed content deal with like Crave, which is like a stupid subscription service with one of the telecom companies here. And apparently their contracts up in like 2026. So why would they get rid of that before then? Which is why I'm,

I'm accessing HBO Max with a VPN router and sharing an account with somebody else who has a U.S. address, basically. I'm just trying to get the app on my phone, which that's having its own issues. I mean, to find an APK file that I can download that I can trust not to be. Oh, that's a bummer. Yeah. So we'll see about that. But anyway, yeah, this was from Deadline is the source of this information, and it's Apopias list. I don't know if this is just mobile or not.

Maybe I should have looked into this before, but anyway, crack the top 10 of something. So, yeah. And also, yeah, they're not doing the dual same-day release streaming thing anymore. That was just 2021. So I want to reaffirm that Christopher Nolan was crying like a baby for no reason. It affected zero of his films. That was, yeah, that was something. I'm never working with Warner Brothers ever again.

This is the worst streaming service. It affected zero of his films. It didn't do anything. Oh, Chris. Yeah, I'm happy with HBO being up there. It's one of the few, like, mega, like, content producers that has a pretty damn good track record overall, I think. Yeah. In terms of the content.

Content-wise, it's fucking awesome. Fix the UI, get a Netflix UI, invest in it. You'll have the best fucking streaming service if you just fix the UI and the subtitles. Yeah, that's shit. That's something. Netflix just has that cornered, I feel like, at the moment. Like, most competitors just aren't as good.

Yep. Yeah, sure. With any of that stuff. Yeah, you'd think that that would be... It's one of those things where you have to wonder, like, does the CEO of Warner Media have an HBO Max account. Does he use the service?

Like, that's the question. Because if he does, he should be like, wow, there's some shit that could be better about this, you know? Do the people in charge even use the service? Yeah, I hardly doubt to it. Have to assume no, I guess. How crazy is it that TikTok is above YouTube now? It's pretty crazy.

It's like, you know what part of the reason is? If you told, like, 2015 me, I'd never believe it, but what's the reason? I think that it's not just the fact that it's short form content. I think it's the fact that you can use music on it. I think that the entire ecosystem of TikTok is being able to use other content that's already existing and still making money off of it, right? I'm pretty sure on TikTok they have a system set in place where it just shares the revenue, right?

So, like, yeah, it's a system that's built off of like, hey, everybody's dancing to this song. I'm going to dance to this song too, or I'm going to make a meme out of this song too. Whereas you try to do the same thing on YouTube, as much as they're trying to compete with their shorts market, you try to use a song and it's like, oops, no, it can't, sorry. Yeah, the more you lean into it and embrace that side of it, like the memes, the shareability of it, these companies they're just missing out on so many eyes like with the

old as fuck like tacked with this like this TikTok shit is just proving it at this point in time Twitch and YouTube every single major streaming or content service should have a way

where you can incorporate licensed content and just have it automatically share the revenue right and I don't mean 50-50 if you use three seconds of it in your video I mean like 1% you know like it should be proportionate to the amount that you use in your video.

You shouldn't have to worry about three seconds of the song in your three-hour video and them taking 100% of the revenue. I'm sorry, that's fucked up. People don't want to use your service for reasons like that, you know? So, fix your shit. You have the algorithm. You have

the content library. You have the resources to make this happen. It's already set up. You just have to change how it functions. That's it. And then you have a functional service. Anyway, we should do question time. All right, let's do some questions from the Sardonicast community.

If you want to leave your own for us to answer in future episodes, head over to the subreddit where there's a suggestion thread where you can ask, whatever you feel like. Just like, show me your Bob Z69 says, do you think bigger studios will stop supporting Oterre directors this year, especially it feels like with films by Guillermo, Agaray and Wes Anderson, or were overshadowed by well-known IPs and underperformed at the box office. Is Netflix not a big studio?

I don't know. How are we going to define it? Because they're all going on Netflix. Yeah. Netflix is a big studio and that's what they're doing. And like success seems to be measured in a different way now. Like it was so like binary. Like did it do well at the box office?

Yes or no. They're like different avenues now. Like I feel like plenty of people are still seeing French to say. dispatch despite maybe not, you know, exploding, like at the cinema, like going out there to see it. Yeah. It's also like COVID times as well. Like all of these happen to coincide with like new spikes of COVID and stuff. So the whole box office like just obsessing over that.

And I feel like it's just like they don't even have that much control and the other other side of it. It's like so chaotic. There's like no way for them to plan for this stuff. Yeah, exactly. The temple film seem to be doing well I think that's more important You know like the rest of these movies They're kind of risks

Like if they don't do well Okay the French dispatch is not a lot of money You know if Spider-Man didn't do well That would be a fucking disaster But you know like That's what they put the most money into Because they know that's like What's gonna make the most money

And like at the end of the day It just kind of trickles out Like you know As long as those big movies are doing well Like the Jurassic worlds and whatever then it doesn't seem like the industry really cares. Yeah. I think like HBO Max, they lost a lot of money from the theaters or HBO, whatever, Warner Brothers, right?

They own it. Like they lost a lot of money from the theaters, but they made up for it with that app or whatever, like you just said. It's, yeah, it's a different world. It doesn't really matter. Yeah, they definitely got a bunch of new subscribers. Yeah, it doesn't really matter. You know, like the Matrix movie, like people are talking about it. It didn't do super green the Fox office.

No, not at all But it's not like No one talked about it It definitely had like Somewhat of an impact It's just You know It's just it had its own audience

People like that movie As long as movies in theaters You know Like some Theaters are still existing And I'm gonna support my local theater By checking out Morbius On April 1st

Oh yeah I'm probably gonna see that We're all seeing Morebius again Well that's what I I was stepping out of a theater two days ago, and I saw a poster saying January, and then I looked on my phone and it said April. So I think it's, I think it got delayed again.

It's April 1st, which I think is a very fitting date to release the film. Yeah, exactly. It's fucking stupid. Wait, it's actually coming out in April 5th. That's what it says on IMDB. That is hilarious. Yeah, it's so stupid. You thought Venom was dumb.

As long as Morbius is doing okay, theaters will recover. Yeah, well, there's plenty coming out. Like, Dr. Strange. The Marvel stuff. Yeah, April for her, that is hilarious. I love that. Light year. Yeah.

But the poster that's still listed there says January 28. Oh, yeah, the official poster on 9DB. It's so dumb, yeah. Jesus. Yeah. Looks terrible. Auteur directors are still working with big studios, even if those big studios are Netflix,

and even if those are going straight to streaming services, but we'll see where the market goes. It's not like they're unable to make films altogether. It really depends. Yeah. Okay. Bitchington 309 has one for us. What's your opinion on the concept of fan service?

When do you think it is done well or done poorly? The fan service I'm talking about is the kind in American entertainment rather than Japanese entertainment. All right. Is that like a huge difference? Hmm. I think Japanese entertainment. fan service is like more along the lines of like a like a culture thing so like not necessarily

I could be wrong but when I think fan service in anime when I've heard people use that terms it's like oh like you got like the butt shot here or something like that yeah it's not necessarily like oh we're fans of this character it's like oh we're fans of like this trope almost yeah yeah like fan favorite characters getting like out of the way moments that only exist just to tickle fans, yeah. But yeah, it seems like at its core, like pretty similar, to be honest to like the way we do fan service, like Spider-Man's been on everyone's minds. You can call that heavy fan service all the way through, but it's also an example of one

we all enjoyed. We all liked that version of fan service, whereas I'm always railing on just unsuitable out of nowhere fan service that just doesn't make sense. Free Guy was a big one from 2021. Like when... He gave a lightsaber. Yeah, hey, look, it's a Marvel at Star Wars. It's so weird.

I can't... I don't want to think about Free Guy ever. I didn't even watch it. I saw that clip on fucking Twitter. It was so mad. Yeah. Space Jam, a new legacy. Yeah, Space Channel Free Guy.

Some people got angry for me saying that I wouldn't watch it. Really? They thought you weren't giving it a chance. Yeah, like, who is this guy think he is? Jordan Peterson's favorite movie is free guy. Okay. Space Jam and New Legacy. Yeah, that was...

Yeah, those are like the worst examples. The Matrix references and, yeah, the Rick and Morty, like, thrown in there. Are we just... Is the question, what do we think about fan service? Like, it depends on how it's used. I think we kind of touched on this in the fucking Spider-Man episode.

Like, the thing that separates the new Spider-Man from the new Space Jam is that they were taking characters that we loved and wanted to see more out of, and they found new ways to use those characters, new and interesting ways to utilize those characters and have them interact with each other in ways that you would only ever see it a fan fiction previously. However, Space Jam 2, The Matrix, to some extent, a lot of these other newer films, they don't utilize the characters that we love. They just merely reference the fact that they're there and they're hey, hey, remember this? Hey, remember this? You remember this scene from the first movie? I'm going to

show you a shot from the first movie. Yeah, you remember that? That's cool. And you're supposed to clap and go, oh, yes, I did this is the movie I remember. It's like, duh, that's why you're there, because it's like the whole point of marketing a movie towards these people is, is that they remember the first movie already. So what, what's the point in doing that within the film? Like, the whole point of seeing the new matrix is that it says the matrix on the title, right? Who is this for? I don't know. You want to see the Neo and Trinity. Yeah, I want to say Neo the game dev. I want to see slow motion.

Nees. You want to see Morbius. Morbius, morphius, morphous. Yeah, I mean morphius. Yeah. Now Morbius and Morpheus are confused in my brain. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. You want to see Morpheus.

drinking a 40 in a death basket. Fuck, yeah, I'm getting them. And I want to see Morvius in theaters April 1st. April 1st. mark your calendar everybody yeah they'll come out they'll be like gotcha it's not out buzzing it's coming out it's coming out it's never it's never coming out the movies it was a joke yeah he's made a trailer it's a fake movie that would be great yeah that would be so much better i still didn't believe it's real that was that would be if if it was all just an elaborate Jared

letto style prank to for him to get into the character of the joker because he's a prankster He's like we're doing the Snyder cut But we're replacing everybody with Grinch Joker I'm the main character now It said his co-stars like dead animals Whatever the hell he did Farts in a jar or something It's a prankster

I'm pranking babies at a jar I said farts Dead babies Same thing True Well seeing as a Spider-Man's on the mind. Andy, the moviemaker 14, has this to say. I'm not sure how where you three are of this, but after Spider-Man No Way Home release, there were a large

amount of Spider-Man fans that said they wanted an Amazing Spider-Man 3 and a Spider-Man 4 to be made, posting, make Spider-Man 4 and make Amazing Spider-Man 3 online. You keep in track? Would you guys be interested in seeing these movies get made? That being, if they're done right, or would you rather just let these movies be? Personally, I wouldn't be opposed to it. I want them to be done right and feel like a necessary addition to Toby and Andrew's movies. Especially considering that Sam Ramey really wanted Spider-Man 4 to be made, and it was supposed to be released in 2011 but got cancelled before shooting, which is what led to the Amazing Spider-Man to be made.

Even Ramey himself said that he wanted Spider-Man 4 to be the best movie and end the series on a high note. So with what Spider-Man Now Way Home brought us, I think that it could be the key to making these two movies possible. How do you guys feel about these things? Thanks, guys. You're my favorite podcast of all time. Yeah, I don't know if that's going to happen.

See, we're working under different rules now. The internet's involved now. If we can make Snyder cuts come out. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. This is Sony, too. And they want to milk Spider-Man for everything they can. They're making movies like that. Yeah, they were trying to make Spider-Man for it.

And, yeah, there's like a lot of trouble making that movie. It seemed like they couldn't really get it to come together. And, yeah, I think it's a lot of it at the studio. right I think it was studio mostly but maybe now like I don't know if they even want to do it at this point I feel like it would be good maybe I really don't give a shit about

the amazing Spider-Man movies I do not think those need to be continued yeah those are bad Andrew Garfield's not bad yeah like Andrew Garfield exactly maybe like Andrew Garfield is not the worst part about those movies to come back and direct them or like yeah like what do you want to do

like do you want Mark Webb to come back you want someone else to come directed like What's what's the conceit? Are we going to have like one of come back from Paul to your body? I feel like a sequel to Amazing Spider-Man will be way more likely. Like everyone's so old now from that original cast. Whereas everyone wants to see more of the Amazing Spider-Man Spider-Man. Yeah, I don't know.

If you just give Sam Ramey another Spider-Man movie, but let him do what he wants, that would be great. The problem is even if we were to do that in this day and age, he would be making a Marvel Spider-Man movie. That's part of the problem. You can bring back Sam Ramey. I don't think you're going to get as much personality as we saw in the first three Spider-Man films. We're going to have to see how the new Doctor is. We'll see, but something tells me

that it's going to feel a lot more like a Marvel movie than a Sam Ramey movie. It might feel more like an Oz. Did you see his like Disney? I didn't. No. James Franco in it or something? I don't remember.

Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'm not. I'm not expecting a. Sam Ramey film really from the new Doctor Strange like we'll see but like I don't know how much how much they're gonna give him

especially when you're seeing these like stories coming out about it saying or like oh there's gonna be so many cameos from different elements of the Marvel universe it's like that's the exciting part there's going to be so many cameos yeah the human torch will be just like whatever it's just throwing everyone it's the cameo era

Yeah, I can understand why seeing Andrew Garfield in this newest spider, spoilers, this is the newest Spider-Man movie. I can understand why seeing him there would make it so that you want to see more of him again. But there's so much wrong with those other two films, the Amazing Spider-Man films, that have nothing to do with Andrew Garfield. Andrew Garfield is not the reason why those films didn't work. just terrible direction terrible character design terrible script just terrible editing

all the product placements like that's a weird standout to the way more product placements than any other Spider-Man the product placement like the Sony product placement was really forever 10 more than it doesn't

counts of product placement yeah like it's comical time squares it's ridiculous yeah the electro character fucking sucks yeah like the rhino like it was so bad.

Yeah, like, there's this whole accuracy in the trailer you don't even see. Yeah, exactly. It's shit. It's like the very end of the movie. If they wanted to continue using Toby and Andrew Garfield in some form, fucking do it. Like, that's, I don't know, they worked really well in this latest one. Who knows?

It's probably not going to be as good as this, uh, no way home. But like, I don't know. I just came in for a cameo. There's so much you can do with the universe, considering all the different timelines and versions of Peter or whatever, like, fuck it, I don't care, make a spin-off thing. If Toby's willing to do it and he gets money and it makes money and, you know, fuck it, I don't care.

Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, the stories like just that response, the dollar signs that are being seen because of this movie, I feel like these conversations are happening. Yeah, exactly. They want to push this stuff more as far as it can go. Amazing Spider-Man 3 would be a weird fucking thing for them to do that. That would be so weird.

Yeah. Yeah, especially now. But if Sony owns the rights and they can just do that, like, we got to remember it's Sony, right? So they might. They might do that. They are scrambling, man. Like, have you seen the trailer for the new, like, Uncharted movie?

It's bad. Oh my God. That looks like hilarious. It looks hilarious. It looks so stupid. Yeah. Mark Wahlberg is sully. What?

It looks awful. What the fuck? Directed by a director of venom, I think, the first one. Oh, no. First venom. Wow. Holy shit. Looks really dumb.

All right. Last question. Okay, let's end on this one from Barowski. This is a really basic question, but I'm curious. What movies and or TV shows are you anticipating for 2022, whether you're hoping for it to be quality or at least ironically entertaining? So you can put Morbius aside. Morbius.

New Darren Aronofsky A-24, The Whale, starring Brendan Frazier. That's the most intriguing thing coming out next year, in my opinion. It's the Northman as well. That'll be interesting to see where that goes. New Robert. Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, Robert Agri's new movie, Northman.

Death on the Nile, that looks like fucking shit. Ambulance by Michael Bay, looks like shit. There's supposed to be a new avatar, man. Unchartered. Oh, yeah. Is that happening?

I'm so, I'm so curious. I'm so interested. At the end of this year? Yeah, after all this time, the Batman, I'm sure that'll be interesting. The Batman, he's like, apparently Robert Pattinson's just not even doing a

sequel anyway because he doesn't like the director. It's just going to be a one-off. Yeah, I've sort of seen those articles trending. Oh. Yeah. So he's already before it's even out, he's like done with it. Yeah. Way to go, Patty Cakes.

It's a good, uh, good stuff. Good sign. Dr. Strange, I'm looking forward to. I brought up my watch list here. We got Martin Scorsese. He's got a new film called Killers of the Flower Moon coming out, 2022, apparently. Okay.

A new Andrew Dominic film called Blonde, which is Marilyn Monroe biopic, with Anna diarmos Adrian Brody's in it cool interesting okay we got a Pinocchio movie from Guillermo del Toro so like what the fifth pocic pinocchio movie in like uh in like a feel like that's been in development

a year or like years yeah we even cares we got a new Ari Aster movie apparently listed on IMDB as comedy drama horror it's called Disappointment Boulevard walking Phoenix is in it that sounds cool okay cool Noah Bombach's got a new movie coming out called White Noise

Joanna Hogg's got a new movie coming out coming out Macromand 2 Damien Chazel's Babylon Minions rise of grow What about minions Rumored to be set in period Hollywood

Very out of your element Damian Chazelle Toby McGuire's in that one though That's interesting Okay Toby McGuire Olivia Wild and Brad Pitt Okay Avatar 2 A avatar 2

The sequel to Spiderverse Oh yeah yeah that'd be cool It's supposed to come out Spider-Man across the Spider-verse. We got Black Adam, which I'm going to watch for the title. Yeah, with the rock. The rock's in it.

I mean, we're all going to have to watch it, right? I guess. The rock in a fucking Marvel movie? Or is it DC? Yeah. This one's DC. DC, thank you. Jordan Kiel's new movie called Nope, with Daniel Kaluya.

Nope. And Stephen Yunn. And Kiki Palmer. Nope. Is that actually called Nope? It's called Nope. Yeah. It's called Nope.

No. Halloween ends. Yorgos Lentimos. Never mind. It's a short. I'm not even going to mention that one. It's a short. It's called Bleas.

The Halloween movie and a Texas chainsaw movie. So? Yeah. What kind of forever is supposed to come out? I feel like just every year. There's a movie called the Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent

where Nicholas Cage plays himself, but doesn't look amazing to me. Some people are excited. I think it looks very average. There's a new furry movie called The Bad Guys Oh yeah, that's a Dreamwicks movie, isn't it? Yeah. A new A-24 movie from the guys.

The Barrio Brothers movie. That's supposed to be out this year. I don't know if they're going to, it might be going to push back, but it's supposed to come out this year. It's Chris Pratt. Chrissy Pratt. Yeah, there's a new A-24 movie from the guys that made the Swiss Army Man. There's a trailer out for that right now.

It's called Everything Everywhere All right. Yeah, it looks interesting. Some people, yeah. Michelle Yo is in it. Anyway. Jackass Forever. super hyped i'll be watching that for sure fuck yeah

yeah just uh and then some stuff that i guess i'm watching it to sundance pretty soon yeah those are those are my interesting things of note that's like everything yeah i mean there'll be other things but this is just on my watchtons yeah

like some of yours yeah that's like what i have the whale easily my yeah the whale my most anticipated the whale It doesn't show up as having a release date yet on IMDB though, so I don't know. Maybe it'll get pushed back. I feel like some of them will.

Like Top Gun's been pushed back a lot. I hope that comes out this year. I'm just interested to see it. The film is expected to premiere sometime in 2022. So let's just assume Oscar season. We're going to give Brendan an Oscar. Let's assume you do. Fuck yeah.

Hype Town. I'm so excited to see Brendan Fraser play Nicacado Avocado. Also, I forgot to mention this. In Sardonicast episode 71, I totally said it would be cool to have all the Peter Parker's together in one movie and hang out together. Yeah.

You looked it up. Well, somebody posted it on the subreddit, so give me the money and also make everything else I want you to make. I guess that's it for questions. You did it. We did it. My voice is dying. I don't know why.

is recommended. I think it's Adam's turn. It is my turn, but we have a special guest, and I let them decide. So if you're comfortable with that, I'll save my turn for after. Is that fine? Yeah, that's fine.

Cool. No. Yes. Yeah, no. We have a special guest joining us next episode. That guest is Joel Haver. I almost said Haver, but then I remembered it was pronounced Haver. I don't know.

Joel Haver, YouTuber, filmmaker, make some really cool animations and stuff. They're going to be joining for the next episode. And their recommendation, it's Faces by John Cassavetes, 1968. So we'll be talking about that. And also,

we will be discussing the new Matrix film. So if you want, if that sounds interesting to you, then maybe go listen to the next episode when it's out. You can listen to the episode early as it's edited by going to Patreon.com slash Sardonicast or Sardonicast.com and signing up for premium $2 a month. You get these episodes as they're edited.

Otherwise, they come out every two weeks. Yep. If you don't want to be spoiled for those movies, maybe watch them before the episode also. Bip. All right. Thank you for listening. It was like almost a burp. It was not quite a burp.

It was like... Oh, is that what that was? A bit. Something needed to come out. It came out in that way. It's funny. Thanks for listening. Cachow.

Yeah. Bye-bye. Skudish. Skudish. Bye.