Sardonicast - Sardonicast 112: Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Avatar

Episode Date: May 16, 2022

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Three, two, one. This is why we're here. Unobtainium. There's more to that line, but I think we're just going to leave it there. Hi, I'm Adam from Your Movie Sucks. This is Sardonicasse. That was a line from Shrek the third. Who else?

I thought it was a line from Transformers. Oh, yeah. Sneaky Pete, right? It was from a Marvel film. They were, what's the stuff they use in Iron? man? On optanium. Oh no, a vibranian. See?

This is what we're talking about. Oh my God. I'm just going to say I'm Ralph Seppi. Hi. Yeah, and I'm Alex from a sneaky beat. Oh, man. Why does everything have to sound so stupid like the resource? It's always just a stupid sounding resource.

Why does it have to sound so stupid? Some of them are actually cool, though, because I, I was looking this up, I'm in preparation for the recommended movie, but I was reminded, some of them are actually alright. What do you think of, like, Tritium, Tritium from Spider-Man 2? The fact that I don't remember it means it's probably okay, you know? Yeah, well, Spider-Man 2 is a good movie. Well, about, like, you like Mass Effect, right?

Yeah, Element Zero. I like Element Zero. I find it weird when they call it Ezo. I find that weird. Yeah, that's kind of corny. They do that a bunch. Yeah. Element Zero is cool.

Ezo is a bit much, yeah. Or like Adam and Bioshock. Yeah, there you go. Adam and Bioshock. Element Zero is teetering the edge between like memorable and stupid. It's like it hit that perfect spot. Yeah, yeah. Unobtainium?

What the fuck? Seriously. Yeah, we'll talk about that more later, I think. How can you do that? We saw the trailer for the second one if we want to quickly talk about that. It doesn't really show much. It's a teaser. Yeah, it's kind of like a mood piece thing for the new avatar.

It's happening. We've actually got it. I mean, maybe. We could have COVID 2 before Avatar 2. You never know. There's not much to go off, is there? It's pretty vague. There's water.

Because James Cameron loves the ocean. Looks great, I think. I think. I think the CGI is pretty excellent. Like, almost photo real. There's no... I saw like some gifts on Twitter, though. I'm like, wow, that almost looks great. people are like, oh, that's, that must, that's, I literally saw this. It must be like a guy in paint,

like, and it's like a practical shot. I'm like, no way. Oh, really? People on my subreddit were saying that it didn't look great. It did look great. I think the entire movie, CG. That sure did look really good with the close-up on the arm. That did look pretty impressive. So we, I think we all saw the trailer in theaters. I didn't see the YouTube upload, which, uh, as some in my subreddit point it out, was only uploaded in 1080P, Jesus. Like, why are you doing that? I didn't need to look at that. Studios keep doing that.

I don't know why they haven't realized that you can upload to YouTube in 4K. So I'm trying to think, like, what resolution was it in my theater then? Because, like, surely that's not a 1080P. Like, one excuse could be, oh, it's unfinished animation for the trailer. They don't want people to be viewing it

in a higher resolution because then you can see the imperfections. But if they're showing the same trailer in a theater, and the theater is showing it in higher resolution than 1080p, then surely you could do that for YouTube, right? Because YouTube compresses it even more. Yeah, you'd have thought.

Especially for this franchise. Yeah, YouTube 4K is not real 4K. It's like the whole point of it is the clarity and the 3D and the visuals and pushing the visuals. That is funny that it's not even in 4K for the train. Yeah, they do that to everything. Unless it's like on Vime. The only thing I saw marketing-wise in 4K in the past forever was something that Matt Reeves uploaded himself to Vimeo

with like a clip from the Batman movie or whatever it was like okay well that's just Matt Reeves doing that and it's Vimeo which doesn't compress things as much but anyway yeah what the hell Vimeo looks good Vimeo movies look great

it looks better than YouTube actually yeah that's why professionals use it yeah yeah anyway yeah there's a lot of water I don't like the title The title's kind of weird.

The way of water. Just call it Avatar too. Because the whole implication of the trailer is like, it's the second one. You've been waiting for a long time. You're going to have another fandom convention over this. Like that's the whole mood. Right? Well, yeah, I got that mood.

It's like, welcome back to Pandora after one a decade. I got that feeling from the trailer though. Like, it looked great. I'm like, okay, it's not really focusing on the story. It's just like a visual piece. Yeah, the visuals have already proven themselves. That's not really the part. I think anyone's really concerned about it.

More of the, what's the story going to be this time? That's the interesting part. Like, it's been a really long time. It's been 10 years. It's almost a completely different generation, like, being introduced to it now. That's a long time. Yeah. It makes you a little excited for it unlike, you know, a Marvel movie, which comes out, you know, three a year.

Well, hopefully this is a little more special. Part of my problem with, like, the sequel happening now is, like, I, in order for it to have the same impact or even come close to feeling the same as the original Avatar, or at least the experience of watching the original Avatar in 2009, it would have to have some pretty fucking revolutionary special effects. Sure. Because Avatar in 2009, like, that shit. It looks great. It looks great, but a lot of other things look like it right now, whereas in 2009, nothing else looked like it, which is what separate. Yeah.

No. Yeah, I don't know what the fuck they're going to... Because right now with this trailer, this new trailer for Avatar 2, I'm not sure it does look like it's separated from anything else. It looks like a standard right now. But my mind could be changed. It could be, you know, trailers are usually unfinished animation. So we don't know what the final product will look like.

I'll have to just watch the real movie, I guess. And it's a purposefully vague teaser too, so... Yeah. I just think visually looked very good. I think all the water stuff will be the the groundbreaking Yeah, probably. That's probably the showoff point.

Effects. Yeah, like the splash. Because CG water has already always been like really difficult for... That's been very difficult. Yeah. Just like facial expressions were always very difficult. And I think Avatar kind of, you know,

leap that hurdle a bit or like kind of went over that valley. If we can do Avatar to... slash Aquaman crossover. I think that'll be better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And the abyss and like what other underwater movies can we throw in? Titanic. The mermaid, yeah. Yeah, they're doing a live action one of those, aren't there? Nice remake. Host. Oh, aren't they? Oh, yeah, they are.

That's right. Yeah, I've heard about that. Yeah. The Little Mermaid, you mean? Sorry. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Man. I don't know about that. Who are they getting to play the blue lady? Ossila. Or the purple lady, whatever. The big lesbian? The octopus friend. Yeah, I have no idea.

Melissa McCarthy, I have no idea. Oh, that would be great. Yeah, why not? Skibwell Smith again. Why not? Skibwell Smith, like Aladdin. Smith is Ursula. Man.

Yeah, why not? If this were like, 30 years ago, I'd be like, Kathy Bates, fucking rock that shit. Oh, yeah. I have no idea what she was like right now. But again, it would just be a waste of a good actor.

It's just the stupid, why, why? Just stop it. Yeah, or just like, don't make these remakes because they're bad. More like,

yeah, the casting doesn't matter because it's a bad movie. Yeah. It's not even out of it. Yeah, Lion King. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, so that trailer played before, uh, the doctor, Spider-Man, the web of shadows. What did we think of the spoilers for the new Dr. Strange?

Web of shadows. What did we think of it? Dr. Strange multiverse of madness? Kind of boring first half and then really good second half. I would say the first third's pretty boring. I would say it starts turning into a Ramey film.

When it got into the Sam Ramey shit, that's when it got like really good, I thought. Like, at the end of the movie, I'm like, this is crazy. This is just like total campy, like army of darkness level. Yeah, he made another ramey film, which is shocking to me that they would let him do that. But I'm happy they did. But that's great. God bless it.

I mean, it's fucking awesome that like the last part of this movie I thought. Yeah, and I enjoyed it. I mean, my biggest fear was. this movie that after Spider-Man, they were going to try and turn this whole multiverse thing into a reference delivery system. So it's like, oh, because in the teaser, they were

saying like, I guess, spoilers, uh, Professor X's voice was heard. So I was, I was thinking, worst case scenario, oh, is this like, what this is just becoming now? Just like, free guy reference, just essential. Yeah. I was worried about that. Because I, that caught me off guard. I didn't,

I didn't watch the teaser and I didn't listen to any, I had no idea. That's great. Oh, really? Yeah, I was able... Oh, that's so cool. What was nice about watching it in that way is like, as soon as it shows the hand, I recognize the theme.

And I haven't seen that fucking the X-Men movie since a billion years ago. Yeah, yeah. It was like on DVD, X-Men 3 or whatever. But yeah, it was like, oh, I immediately got it. And then it was like, shit, it's Picard from X-Men. Those movies are so awesome, the X-Men movies. And yeah, that theme's very memorable. When he showed up, that's in the trailer, though.

So I knew that was happening. But it's cool you had that experience. I was able to get it as intended. And yeah, I was kind of dreading. I was dreading that scene too, Alex. Why would they put that in the trailer? Yeah, because they want people to see it. That's like a Morbius thing.

Yeah, I don't know why you'd ruin that reveal. To be fair, they didn't give away anyone else. Yeah, they didn't give away Captain... Yeah, but like... Whatever. They got it played by Jim from the office. Because they don't have a good Fantastic Four, so they can't have a memorable, like, oh, we're bringing them back.

Because nobody gives, what, Miles Teller? You're going to put him in this? That would have been funny. I would have loved that. Yeah, don't canonize that film. That would have been funny. Yeah, that one doesn't exist. It's not real.

They should have gotten the original actor who played Reed Richards. They should have gotten. The first Fantastic Four. They should have. didn't mind him. He wasn't the problem with the movie. I thought he was pretty good. The problem with the movie was like everything else. Yeah, you like him dancing? That was a good one. I mean, I just like the actor. That's what I mean. Yeah, yeah. If they had the fucking balls, they would have gotten Chris Evans to play the human inferno. Yeah. In the same universe as Chris Evans

Captain America. Just bring him back. And that would have been funny as fuck. And just never address it. Yeah. Just have no one ever address any. Yeah, that would be close. Yeah. The human inferno, The Human Torch? It's the human torch. Human Torch, thank you. I don't know the name. The Human Inferto. Why not?

It sounds cooler. That's great. Yeah, it might as well. I think he's just made up. I'm like, is there some other character in this movie that I don't know about? The Human Inferto? Chris Evans to play two different superheroes in the same timeline. The guy with the lightning bolt was cool.

His death was cool. It became like a fucking, it became like a horror film. Like, it was so gruesome. But I love this. I mean, I'm not complaining. I thought it was great. This is the goriest Marvel film I've ever seen that's a part of this Disney Marvel canon.

Yeah. That's what I love to do. It's so gruesome. Yeah, it's surprising. Is the Punisher Marvel? Yeah, but that was like kind of tucked away on Netflix, though, wasn't it? Yeah, it's not a part of this. The movies aren't in the MCU at all.

Yeah. And that show, yeah, is, you're right. It's like buried under tons of other content. Yeah, in terms of like what we can connect to, like, Infinity War or whatever. Gorriest one. Yeah. Really cool.

That's for sure. It's kind of weird. It's connected to Wanda Vision too. Oh, you know, it's great. I think that's the biggest tie-in. I didn't see Wanda Vision, and I didn't see the first Doctor Strange, and I didn't feel confused the entire time. I was like, I made the right to see it.

Yeah, okay, that's interesting. I was going to ask about that, because it's been a Marvel thing for a while where it's almost like there's a checklist for each movie. Oh, have you seen Wanda Vision? You've seen Doctor Strange one. But yeah, they do kind of write it in a broad enough way where it's like, it's not like going to go over your head particularly. It's not that complex.

I'm allowed to watch it. I'm just not allowed to give it a rating, I guess. But I will. Is that how it works with the Marvel Fag? Yeah. I don't know. People just make shit up. I just, I review things how I want.

Other people try to enforce how I do it. But whatever. But as far as like fears for this movie, concerned. The other fear I had was Sam Ramey, he made that Wizard of Oz movie a while ago, I think, under Disney, and I didn't really enjoy that, and I thought a lot of

his character was lost. I don't know if that was because of the rating or whatever. So I was just fearing him being neutered or toned down, but I was actually kind of on the total opposite. I was shocked at how much they seemed to just let it become his own thing, become a Sam Ramee

horror movie effectively, with a really nice kind of bait and switch with the villain. Like, they introduced this new, like, Mcuffin character called America who can hop through... America Chavez. And she's, yeah, she's, like, talking about, oh, yeah, there's this, there's this demon that's after me. So you're just picturing some big squid thing or some, like, villain from the first Doctor Strange movie, but it's, it's kind of revealed to be wonder. And it also reminded me of, like, in Captain Marvel, the problem where she's such a powerful character, I was always thinking, it would be so much more fun if this kind of character

her archetype was the villain. And Wanda's so powerful, her being the main driving conflict is kind of a compelling, scary thing to watch the main characters have to try and defeat because she's ridiculously overpowered. And like in that scene where she violently tears apart everyone, it's a nice spectacle that really matches Sam Ramey's style. Yeah. Yeah, I'm glad he was able to do that.

And so one of my questions, I guess, because you have both seen Wanda Vision, is a criticism that I heard about the show. So I'm aware that essentially, spoilers for Wanda Vision, we already said spoilers for this movie, but whatever. She basically enslaves an entire town. She mind controls them so she can larp about having kids, right? Basically. In the show, is there a level of,

of tone or implication that what she's doing is wrong? Because I seem to remember some people criticizing the show or people who watched the show as being like, oh, it's like, you know, it's painting her as like a good character still, but what she did is actually horrible. Whereas now in this film, it seems like they're actually being like, okay, what she did is like kind of fucked up is like what they're saying. Did they, did it feel that way in the show or no? Not particularly because they were showing like the two sides of the story. They were showing Wonders version, which was all like frame with the the different eras of uh reality tv well not reality tv you know the sitcoms the different style of sitcom but then it would cut to outside of what she was seeing with like

an agent or whatever who's trying to take her down and show the other side of it so it wasn't really fully endorsing it like i'm not the biggest wonder vision fan particularly so do you remember anything different ralph in regards to that yeah i agree with what you said that it focuses i like how you put it, it focuses on like both sides because you see Wanda, you know, she's kind of a piece of shit because she takes over this whole town and possesses all these people, right,

to make them into like a sitcom or whatever, like they're living in a sitcom. But yeah, on the other hand, she's like, you know, kind of sympathetic angle because it's like a comic book movie and she's a comic book character. So, you know, she has her family, she loves her kids, she misses vision, right?

So there's like all these different angles. She's ultimately the protagonist of the of that show but she's played as like the anti-hero which is why it's kind of interesting you know yeah it was good kind of writing in that way like it's not really what you expect and you know I think the scarlet witch is like the bad guy ultimately but yeah they play around but the character a little bit like she's quite trash she's good sometimes she's bad yeah because she's she is tragic that's yeah exactly yeah they they really solidify her as like inherently evil in this film oh yeah she's like killing people yeah but I you know I think that's

more fun and interesting than just like going the other way with it because we have enough heroes like why not have like a developed and sympathetic villain like Wanda and I knew they were going to take it that way and they do have the like the spell isn't the spell kind of like corrupting her in some way too they have that angle so it's not fully on her yeah the same one that's kind of is doing something to dr strange towards the end yeah it's kind of confusing yeah i don't really fully understand all the magic rules or whatever, but I'm fine with what it allows, like, as long as they keep it strange and weird, and I feel like Sam Ramey fully embrace that with, like, the, the music fight scene.

Yeah, the demons with, like, the weird voices that talk. Yeah, like popping the eye out of the beginning of stuff. Well, yeah, these things are like, such trademark Sam Ramey isms, you know, the eyeball popping and even the sound effect, like, when it pops, like the, or whatever I can. Yeah, just so cartooning. Yeah. That happened in evil dead. That happened in fucking drag me to hell.

The end title sequence, the Rorschach shit, was very drag me to hell title sequence. Yeah, the same rami. Yeah, the whole ending was very samurai. Yeah, the possessed dead. They even say the, they don't say book of the dead. They say book of the damned. But it's like, okay, like this is this is Sam Ramey shit. Like, there's so much of it.

He literally just made a Sam Ramey. The part where they all hear like, whoa, the, the, the, crazy sound effects coming from the room and you see the Dutch angle go from one 45 degree to the other 45 degree and it zooms in on the door several times as the doors closes. I'm like that's that's trademark Sam Ramey shames. Yeah and it's it's there's so much in here for Sam Ramey fans and I was like I wonder how the general public perceives this because most people watching this aren't Sam Ramey fans that's that's what's interesting to me about it. How was your audience reacting because it wasn't like a normal Marvel movie for

Not at all. A bit more quiet. People weren't laughing as much as the joke. Because I was finding it really funny in that Sam Ramey kind of way, like when the eyes popped out of the creature and all the goofy over the top, like, horror elements. I was like finding that hilarious, but I don't know if the audience was quite as much. It's got 7.5 on IMDB right now.

That's probably going to go down over time. 61 metascore. I was expecting like a bit higher metascore. I was expecting critics to be more like, yeah, Sam Ramey. but who the fuck knows really it's just fucking Marvel people like it's not consistent it's like who gives this shit like it's a fun

fucking like Hollywood movie that like Sam Ramey made he actually did something fun with it there's definitely things I don't like about this but yeah it was mostly the story though like I have issues with that and like the pacing I think it's really slow like toward the beginning once it gets to the

Sam Ramey craziness like I feel like they should have given him more creative freedom than they probably did because I heard about like kind of reshoots he had to do. The whole thing with Charlie's Theron, like the post-credit scene, that was stupid. Oh, that was far, yeah. So, so dumb. Like, that felt thrown in.

I like the other one with Bruce Campbell. Yeah, because didn't they, like, change the order? Like, this was supposed to come out before Spider-Man or something. Oh, really? A bunch of reshoots to, yeah. So I assume, I don't know if the America character was supposed to be involved or something. Really? With the whole multiverse.

Yeah, I think that's the theory or something like that. That's crazy to me. She seems really out of place, honestly Like she can't act for shit She's bad She was so annoying I didn't think she was a bad performance She was a terrible actor

I thought the I thought the kids were bad The Wanda's kids The two boys They were better than America Chavez In my opinion No they weren't When they were singing on the fucking couch

And they were like That was cheesy in terms of That was all my God It was cringing But in terms of like What the actor did And working with like What they were

were given, America Chavez fucked up. She was bad. The kids did just fine. What did you think of, um, what did you think of Rachel McAdams? Um, she was fine. Yeah, she was fine. I haven't seen her in a while. That was like, basically what I was thinking.

She's probably better than she is in the first one. And the first one she has like nothing to do. Yeah, I didn't watch the first one. Yeah. So I was like, oh. Yeah. And yeah. And yeah. And the first one, she's just like the love interest here. She's like, I don't know, there's like the different versions of her. One of her's a scientist trying to help like America Chavez or whatever.

That was a more interesting thing for her to do. I think she fights Wanda or something, right? I don't know. It's like, and there's more, there's more, like, women characters in this movie in general than there are in Dr. Strange, the first one, which is a big plus, I think, you know? Because I think that is a criticism of the first one I have. With all the stuff that has going on,

it still manages to maintain its central. Yeah, this is a, like, Dr. Strange and Wanda movie, mostly. It doesn't really stray and get too distrable. from that. You learn more about his character. He's got a fun arc that's fitting enough and Sam Ramey knows how to explore it enough. It did remind me a little bit of the, of his Spider-Man movies, especially with that opening and just getting straight into the action. Sure. Yeah, that side of it was fun. Yeah. I like Sam Ramey's style and I like the two characters,

right? I think what this movie's missing that the first one had is Tilda Swinton. I feel like that was a big plus of the first one. And that's kind of missing here. That's why I'm kind of interesting. to get your thoughts on Dr. Strange Adam because she's told the Swinton's in that one. And she's like one of the best parts of it. I feel like she definitely elevates that one. And Sam Ramey kind of elevates this. Because, like, you know, I don't think Dr. Strange

is that interesting of a character, really? I think it works better at an ensemble or, like, when I think it's good in this movie that he's kind of just part of the story. Like, he's definitely the main character, but there's all these other things going on to focus on. Like, Wanda is, like, a huge part of the movie, and they make her, like, sympathetic. And, uh, I don't know.

really corny. Like, I'm not saying it's not fucking over the top of corny, but it's like, who gives this shit? It's a fucking, like, Marvel movie. Like, families. Like, I don't give a fuck. And, like, the fact that he went this crazy with the violence is, like, awesome, I think. It's just like, it was a total, like, Sam Ramey, like, camp fest. I'm like, all right, I'm totally with this. Like, it just goes fucking crazy. Like, at the end, I love all that stuff, the visuals of him going through the multiverses and all that stuff. I really enjoyed that sequence. I thought that was great. That the effects they were really. really inspired.

I'm not a huge fan of Benedict Cumberbatch. I don't like, there's no movie where I feel like I've been, been impressed by him. And there's no movie where I'm like, yes, I like that you're in it. Somebody made a Reddit post at one point. And I were like, this is who should have played Dr. Strange. And I was like, hell yeah, but I forget who it is now. And I just did a Google search. And I found a thing that said that Jared Leto was considered for Dr. Strange.

That would have been great. That would have been funny. Where's that time, man? Yeah. I like Benetcomberbatch better in the Spider-Man movie in No Way Home. I thought he was really good in that. I thought that was fun, you know, him with the coffee mug and like kind of played for laughs. Like, that was more fun.

The mental... Yeah, I like his character more in that movie. Yeah, it was just more fun, you know. And here, it's just like, he's just Dr. Strange, like, all right, I'm a mystical guy. He doesn't make a good lead for me. His sidekick guy, I don't remember the name. He seems like more interesting than Dr. Strange. Yeah.

Like he's like way more interesting. Wong's out of it. I would like to see him as the lead. Those scenes were fine. The scenes of them are decent. Yeah. He could have been in the movie more, I felt Wong. Yeah.

He's a more interesting character. I just, yeah, I'm not into the whole vague powers, uh, Mr. Stoicism guy. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it could work. It just depends. I like Dr. Strange being around. Like, when I look at some of the new ones that are introducing like Captain Marvels and whatnot, I just like his core base abilities are a good excuse

to show off certain types of action that's just way more creative and enjoyable. Just thinking about how he's been used like in, like, Infinity War and like combining him with Spider-Man and stuff and having this like... Yeah, in those two, it's great. Portals going on. Yeah, yeah. Just not as a main character

Exactly I think like I think Harry Potter's a bit more Like a sympathetic character I think that's kind of War what I'm looking for Because like Dr. Strange is just like an asshole Like he makes Bruce Campbell like punch himself

In this movie I'm like why would like a superhero For three months or something? Yeah for like three weeks Or whatever Yeah like that's horrible Like why would a superhero do that But there's a point

I'm like that's why I was thinking like Who gives a shit This is a Sam Ramey movie Like it's fucking dumb Like it doesn't matter Like I'm thinking about the characterization They should a Dr. Strange. It's just like, who gives it shit?

It's just like a dumb joke in the movie. That's not to say he doesn't get anything, though. Like, um, towards the end, you have that scene with like the corrupted Dr. Strange, which is like really fun and campy and it's, it reveals stuff about his character and whatnot. It's like just enough for me. I did enjoy that sequence.

It is progressing him somewhat. Sure. As a character compared to, he is kind of like just straight up a dick in the first movie. And it's kind of like, I guess the point. And he's slowly having it, his character chip down. and showing a bit more empathy, but yeah, I get we're saying about him being the lead,

but what saved it was having the horror, wonder, like, forcing the story along and stopping it from getting boring. It wasn't like a, you know, the Tika Wittiti Thor movie where every time it's cutting to the villainous angle, it's just kind of like, yeah, this half of the movie's just not as fun as the other half. I want to go back to the other half, whereas here it's like, each time it's the A&B stories are like equally as interesting, so. Yeah, it was focusing on so many other things. And yeah, I didn't find that. America Chavez's character as annoying as you. She was so annoying.

I found her fun. Yeah, I thought she was actually not as distracting. I think she could have been really annoying, but I don't think she was really. I thought she was pretty well integrated into the movie. I don't know. I really just had an issue with like the story in that first part. It didn't even have any cool action. Like all the cool action set pieces I could think of were like toward the middle and the end.

Like the beginning is like when he was fighting that. lizard, well, not lizard, whatever, that fucking squid thing with the eye. I didn't find any of that. Whatever the fuck that was. I didn't find that that interesting. I was kind of no dodging off at that part, like nodding off, I guess. Yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't into that. Yeah, this is not really doing anything.

Like, nothing's really happening. As soon as the iPop happened, I was into it, but. The iPop. That was funny. Yeah, you're still figuring out the tune. Yeah, but that's like, what, 10 minutes in the movie or whatever? There's just so much, like, banter and like, bland action in the beginning.

I'm just like, yeah, I'm not really digging this at all. I was kind of rolling my eyes. Yeah, that dream sequence or whatever was like really lame. Sure. When it gave up and just became a Sam Ramey, like, camp fest, that's what I loved the movie. That's what it got great for me. I would have preferred if the movie was just that from like start to end. I did enjoy the ending too, like when the eye popped out.

I'm like, that's a perfect Sam Ramey ending. Do you guys have anything else to say about this? Well, I was going to say earlier, when we were talking about Wanda Vision and her character, I think what really solidifies her is particularly evil in this movie is something that perhaps they didn't intend for this, but they have this short moment where Dr. Strange is like, well, what's going to happen to the Wanda whose universe you enter who already had the kids? And she doesn't say anything, but the immediate implication is, well, duh, she's going to kill her, because that's what you do in movies where you try to steal your life from yourself in a different dimension or time travel or whatever.

That's always the implication. But I'm like, if she was a good person, she'd just be like, I'd just be chill and they'd have two moms. And I'd explain to myself, like, hey, I'm from a universe where I don't have kids and I'm really sad. Can I just hang out? And I'd be okay with that because I'm me and I know me. And I'd be okay. But she knows she's evil enough that she'd have to like kill herself. So it's like, I don't know.

If she was cool, she would just chill with her mom self and be a double mom. But, yeah, I think that's what makes her really evil. She knows she couldn't just chill. America Chavez had two moms. America Chavez had two moms in the movie. That's why I got banned in a bunch of countries for that. Yeah, apparently. So was this the movie where there was that, like, news tabloid thing about, like, Marvel

refuses to cut this for Saudi Arabia or wherever. Is this the movie that they were doing this or is there another one coming out? There's one for like every Marvel movie. Like I read one about I think the latest Spider-Man wasn't running in China because they wanted to take out the Statue of Liberty imagery from the end or something.

Yeah, so I don't know. I've heard conflicting shit about this. Yeah, it's banned in Saudi Arabia apparently. but yeah the huge the tabloid the news story was uh disney refuses to cut this and so everybody's like good guy disney or good corporation disney but we'll see i there was some post i didn't look into it further but there was there were some posts on my subreddit they were like okay this is inaccurate um but i didn't look into it because i haven't seen the movie yet by that point and so now now i want to look into it but i can't find the shit so whatever eventually I don't know, like, at what point will we get like a main character that's gay? Like,

I don't know. It's taken a while, isn't it? How many of these are they made? A lot? Tens and tens of them. Yeah. Probably almost 30 at this point. Yeah. Yeah, she had two moms. But it's one of those things where it's like, they probably don't even know how to approach it even if they wanted to.

Because they know it would be like banned in like, in like 60 plus country. if they had a gay man character. And then they would be forced with the like, okay, do we make them like really gay? Or do we make them like, oh, you can't tell, but then they kiss someone of the same gender later in the movie? Yeah.

And then it's like, you're going to upset people either way, no matter how you go about that. I don't know how many comic characters are like that either. I don't know. Is there gay-man? Or something. Superman's son is bisexual, apparently. Oh, really?

Is that comic canon? Yeah. All right. People were mad about it, like, a month ago or something. Oh. Yeah, every now and again, there's a new game, like, comic character that people get angry about. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, in these, like, comics that nobody reads anymore. Yeah, yeah. And it's just, yeah, we can afford to play a little with that market. It's not like they're raking in the dough. Just give them to some rando. Just like, oh, you can write that. this. Okay. Do whatever you want. It's a comic book. It really doesn't matter because like part of the reason why there is all this like multiverse shit is just because like yeah, even even in

the 60s like a lot of comic book writers were just essentially doing like yeah whatever fuck it. I'll do whatever I want. Yeah, that's why these comic book stories like who cares about the consistency or like whatever. Yeah, it was never consistent. Yeah. Yeah, they've all reset like so many different times because it just gets so convoluted. It's like, oh, it would be easier just to start again than to try and continue this ridiculous thread of like shit. Do you dig on multiverses? So, yeah, is this becoming like a fucking trend,

or is it just a weird coincidence? So in Marvel, like, they were planning to do multiverse shit because Spider-Man, and now the Doctor Strange multiverse. Yeah, it's always part of Marvel. Right? But I think it's going to be a case of, they're just going to start the trend of everyone copying them. everyone everyone's going to like want that that same kind of excitement you know it excites like

everyone's oh reference the potential for like reference or thing I know you know member berries is like it's just too much so every like intellectual property holder is going to want to do their their equivalent one like you really got that Batman one on the way I'm sure they're is there a Batman multiverse one on the way yeah the Flash is um this Flash movie is supposed to be like a Batman multiverse oh I think uh is Ezra Miller Keaton's in there. I don't know what they're doing with recent news about him,

like how they're handling that. I'm pretty sure they were relying on him to be like the reset for that DC unit. It was supposed to be like the flashpoint is like the whole DC reset button that they can't really. Funny because I hate him anyway. Lean on that now. Yeah.

What the fuck? Yeah. So they're kind of screwed. It's funny. It's also funny because he's in the Fantastic Beast movie and it's like, well, they got rid of Johnny Depp, so what are you? Are you not going to get rid of Ezra Miller?

He's beating everybody up in Hawaii. Isn't he? Is he the new one? I don't know. He's like a major character, I think, in these new ones. I haven't seen the latest one. I remember he was in the first one, I think. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think he was in the second one. It's just the sequel was so, so bad. Yeah. Well, shit. Dr. Strange. I guess we can give our ratings since we're like, we don't even want to talk about it anymore.

I don't have much else to say about it. I like when it got to Sam Ramey craziness. I'm going to make a review. it eventually. I'll talk about it more. I'd give it a seven out of ten. I'm pretty solid on it. Seven. I liked it. I don't know if I like it. Maybe I like Spider-Man in No Way Home a little more. Although I like the style of this movie a lot. I just think like it really could have been like tightened and paced better and like that first part really dragged for me. But like if all that was fixed, then yeah, I would have really liked it more. Um, I love Sam Ramey's fucking zany shit.

Like I love it when it's just get it's like total campy like arm. of darkness toward the end. Like, it's great. I like that stuff. What did you guys rate it? Yeah, I'm pretty much there with you. Like a, on first watch, I'd give it a 7 out of 10 through an half star. Yeah, I like all the same kind of things. I like that style.

I'm surprised that much of Ramey came through and they allowed him to do that much with it, but I suppose it's just a good fit with the whole Dr. Strange, Strangeness. Yeah, that side of it's cool. Yeah. Spider-Rae no way home looks like a Super Bowl ad. This looks like a lot better, more interesting. Yeah, yeah, because that's one thing all the Marvel movies do where like, whenever they have to deliver dialogue, it's like, it's like they're bored.

Like the direction is so boring. It's just like, it's like a flat image with like two cameras and then just swapping AB and then action happens. And then it's like the camera's free and everything's flowing. Other departments. It's incredible thing you've ever seen. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But Sam Ramey kind of balances that out a bit because a lot. A lot of the dialogue is actually complemented with fun visuals, with the camera swooping around and all these zooms and everything's kind of blocked out in a way more entertaining and kind of fittingly comic way.

He gets this kind of material if you're into that tone. It does work, but it is kind of bogged down by the marvelness. Like it has to be there, obviously. And as you're saying, like it sometimes it can be a bit of a, oh, I'm surprised it went that far in terms of the violence or the. the horror and gore so i've been seeing all this stuff about people being like like memes of people being like yeah take parents taking their kids to see this movie like their little kids thinking they're about to get their fun silly like little marvel movie like captain america and then they get this like zombie being reincarnated like

horror movie you know witch stuff yeah but i don't know i i think they'd like it yeah i'd love this this is the kind of stuff i'd love as a kid but yeah it might be too much for some people. This is the first movie that Sam Ramey has directed since Oz the Great and Powerful, and that was nine years ago in 2013. Wow. Isn't that crazy? Like, yeah, I,

this is, it's great that they allowed him to be himself. It's, it's as much as you could hope for from a Marvel movie directed by Sam Ramey. They, they just let him make a movie for Sam Ramey fans, which is just crazy. I don't

consider, I, I'm probably never going to watch it again. I wouldn't want you know, I would sooner watch Evil Dead trilogy drag me to hell or even Spider-Man movies. Yeah, I have no I have no reason to watch this

over any of the other Ramey films that I like more than this. But I still I loved what it was and one of the better Marvel films don't regret watching it six out of ten. It was good. All right. Cool, cool. Awesome. And

I guess that brings us to Avertar. Yeah, my pick was the big one. The number one movie, guys. The number one movie of all time. I'm doing the music from Avatar. We haven't talked about a James Cameron movie as a recommendation, have we? I do want to recommend a fucking Titanic at some point. Yeah, yeah, it's been a while since I've seen that.

There's a 4K Blu-ray coming out. like later this year, I think. Maybe, I don't know. Oh, okay. So Avatar. What's the plot? So, yeah, 2009, James Cameron's Avatar. It's, um,

Dounces with Wolves in space. Parogi Hunters. The blue alien. Pocahontas. Yeah, it's a big, it's a big sci-fi epic, um, kind of based on,

uh, the world of Pandora. And the plot is an excuse to show off the world building. for the most part. But yeah, it's been on my mind lately because, of course, the sequel is coming out. And over the years, people have kind of been picking the movie apart in terms of, yes, number one, it's the biggest movie in terms of box office intake. But people have critiqued its cultural impact.

However, you measure something like that saying that the characters are weak and it's kind of bloated and was just a tech demo. So I was curious to go back. to it and see if all of the critiques over the years were accurate. And I swear, I always have the same cycle with this movie. I always, I think it's going to be worse than it is, but then I'm never enthused enough to ever defend it beyond just, yeah, it's okay. It's Avatar. Like, it, I think it does, like, what James Cameron was intending, I think, with how much,

it's ambitious in terms of, it's a fully original. world that he had to create from the ground up and try and fit in this huge story, including all these different sides and all the ecology and everything that like an epic like Dune is trying to do, but wedge it into this one movie without any source material. And on those kind of grounds, I can kind of get behind it. But man,

there are so many elements of this plot that are so familiar, so kind of tired with the technology versus the kind of native people and the colonialization angle and, you know, just the, this kind of repetitive theme we've seen for so many movies over the years, but yeah, I'm really torn. Sure. On how it all comes together, personally. I agree with, like, everything you said and everything, everyone else says about this movie, I really like it.

In terms of the world building, like, I don't think people realize just how, like, thorough and detailed, like, the world is that, like, James Cameron created. Like, there's a theme park, too. You know, the Animal Kingdom, they have the whole avatar area. And it's, like, really detailed. Like, all the animals and the plants. And, like, you know, if you learn about it online and whatever, like, yeah, there is this whole ecology to, like, Pandora.

And that's, like, part of the movie. Like, it's not a real place at all. Like, and you forget about it watching the movie. Like, you're so focused on, like, the story and all these things that are kind of predictable that you forget. Like, yeah, this isn't a real place at all. It's like completely fictional. But it feels so real and believable.

And, you know, I think that's like the draw. And I think that's what really works about the movie. And even like the Navi, yeah, as a people, like they feel very influenced by like real world things and very detailed also. Yeah, so it's strongest when it is almost presenting itself as a documentary like these scenes where it is focusing on these huge bird creatures. are flying these reptilian birds that are flying around and the predators that for them and those scenes are fun yeah yeah going into that kind of nerdy ecology aspect is what the heart of the movie is to me and what it keeps it exciting and it's uh i stumbled across the avatar youtube channel because i saw that they uploaded this late this trailer to it um and there's like a bunch

of old random uploads on there like really boring interviews of like one of the random producers and stuff like that but there's a kind of interesting interview of James Cameron talking about it and him like explaining what he wanted to do with the universe and he was kind of talking about how he just wanted the movie to reconnect people with that childlike fascination with nature and the environment and I totally get that in certain scenes where because the main character is Jake Sully this kind of like wide-eyed curious marine he's a bit of a jada Marine but he's also disabled but um through the kind of avatar technology he's able to interact with this new environment

and you're experiencing it with him and it is wondrous and it is kind of like beautiful with the lights and sounds and colors and that is what what it is about and it is what got everyone in and got everyone curious because there is like a kind of documentary kind of style to it in a way

he obviously had to put a plot in there but you could imagine like if you could have got it if you could have got away with it it would almost have been an excitement way to show off a film like if you could do it with like a documentary style you need a plot you need like a reference point like a like a earth like one of those earth documentaries like something like that this is the movie john fevereaux wishes he could make honestly yeah yeah exactly i kept thinking about that that's true yeah this is really well done i was a bit cynical on this movie uh when i was younger um so over 10 years ago

13 years ago. And one of my gripes was like, I think there's one, if not it was nominated, but I was like, best cinematography at the Oscars. And I was like, but so much of this is CG, right? Where you can like, you can just decide where things go. But I didn't really truly appreciate up until this watch, which would be my second watch of just why that makes sense for this film. because of how they filmed it.

And the way that these shots flow, the handheld style, like, going through the trees. And, like, it has some great camera work. It has some really, really great camera work. Yeah. And perhaps at the time I was, like, a bit more, I guess, uninformed on just how it works when they film it. You know, they're not, like, they're not just moving around models.

throughout the entire thing. They're combining real camera work with, you know, modified environments and stuff like that. So there is a real craft and talent to the cinematography in this film, despite how much of it is, you know, they can add lighting effects,

they can add like background and, etc. They have a lot of ways they can tweak it, much like the performances too. And I'd like to talk about this aspect in terms of having actors and CG faces. So Andy Circus is like he's famously tried to, I guess, devalue the work of animators by being like, I want an Oscar for this because it's all me. And like he goes in there's these crazy YouTube videos where he's like, it's all me. It's like, I'm the entire performance. And it's like, it's both, dude. It's both.

Like, you can be a great actor and the animator can tweak your performance in a way that makes it even better, right? Like, it's a collaborative effort, you piece of shit. Well, yeah. Like, a human face doesn't perfectly map onto, like, a chimps face. Like, an animator has to do the work in between to make it make sense. And, Andy, I'm a clown, and I belong in the circus. Yeah. Yeah.

Andy Circus is great Lord of the Rings. I'd say that's like the more recent example I can think before Avatar of like a groundbreaking, like, CGI character. But I feel like Avatar is such a major improvement from like Lord of the Rings or even from like the Roberts Emacchus kind of CGI movies, if you remember those, like the Polar Express. Oh, yeah. Those always looked awful. Those are uncanny valentive.

made those look awful right and here like I think I think it really works because of the design and like the CGI as well like like a lot of what Adam's saying like the fact that they're very humanoid but not exactly human that they have big eyes I think that helps a lot you're not like it's not literally a CGI like person you know I think that helps like the uncanny valley aspect you have the reference point of all the avatars like faces are like a real actor yeah I feel like they're very expressive in detail too like every model feels very detailed uh I like the, you know, they're kind of cat-like, so they have like these ears that are very expressive as well. Yeah, yeah, the tail.

It's like the halfway point between furries and weeps. So. But it works for the film because they are kind of these expressive, like sympathetic creatures, which is what I think he was going for, like James Cameron. I think that kind of works. And also there's this kind of like sexual appeal to them, especially like Natiri, which is like I think that's really in line with like kind of James Cameron. especially like Natiri, which is like, I think that's really in line with like kind of James Cameron's other films as well. Like we're going to talk about influences like Terminator 1 and 2 and like all of his films really. They have like that strong female character that's like

kind of badass also kind of sexy. Natiri kind of falls in line with that perfect. Like I think she's like probably the best character in the film for me. I think she is one of the best actor. She's just like, yeah. And so he's like performance is great. Uh-huh. Several points in this movie. she's like delivering the best parts of like performance yeah yeah it's a shame she has to act against you know a block of wood uh Jake Sully Jake whatever but like yeah I thought she was great in the film yeah and and um the CGI is so good and and those techniques like the lighting um there's points for like these kind of sun shining through like leaves kind of yeah and it creates like these very harsh lighting conditions very harsh shadows which make the

the Navi look very real, like, toward the beginning. Like, I'm like, oh, that looks great. Like, it almost looks photo real. Like, I can't, it looks so good for a movie that came out 10 years ago. Like, I think back to, like, Speed Racer, we just watched. That came out the year before that, like, that is aged horribly. And this, this looks great, you know, looks so, even if it doesn't look, like, completely real all the time.

But we apparently didn't understand that movie, and it was all ironic or something. It's so much more immersive in this film, though, I felt. Like, they were clearly trying to build a world. And even if the CGI fully doesn't deliver at points, it's like the world building and like all these other parts of the movie like kind of help it along. Yeah. I really like that stuff. Yeah. There are some shots of the Navi when you see up close, depending on the lighting source I think I was finding.

It looks better or worse. Like when they're in the camp and they were lit by the campfire that looked particularly good. And the whole bioluminescence at night. And, you know, those light sources cast a really kind of. pleasing light that made the CG really lifelike and realistic. There wasn't a single part of this movie that I found to be a worse quality CG, but because I watched it in the best way possible on my fucking phone on the airplane on the way to Atlanta, I was like, oh, this is playing on American Airlines.

Well, because, yeah, I was like, I was like, okay, I can do this on. I'm not doing anything else on my flight. I had paper and notes, you know, like, I had a pen. Yeah. How dare you? And I experienced, I really, I enjoyed it more this time than I watched it in the theater in 2009. So, fuck it. Fuck you, David Lynch. Jesus. Anyway, yeah, it would, so I'll probably never watch that Blu-ray I bought. Because by the time I want to watch this again, it'll be out on 4K.

I watched it on my Blu-ray on my TV. And yeah, you really appreciate the detail the animators put into like every aspect of the world. And yeah, the detail of the creatures. Yeah, I thought it looked great for the most part. Did any of you guys watch the extended version? No. There are two versions of it. The last time I saw it quite a few years ago was that extended version.

And it did kind of sour me on it. It does really damage the pacing because it's, for the most part, for how long it is, it's got a really quick pace to it. It gets moving. It does not stop this movie. It kind of lags. towards the end of the second act, but for the most part, it moves quick because it has so much it's trying to achieve and set up and try and pay off. Whereas, yeah, I don't know.

It's just kind of the spectacle filmmaking curse in a way, where it's, if that's at the top of the hierarchy, top of the agenda, this pushing the technology, because he famously had this story conceived in 1995 and was trying to get it off the ground, but was told that the technology simply wasn't there. yet. It's not possible. Yeah, exactly. So that's clearly been at the forefront and there's this whole legacy of filmmakers doing this and this, like George Lucas had this whole fascination with this, I think ever since the Vietnam War, with the, you know, explored it in that his last Star Wars movie with the whole Ewarks going against the technological empire and overcoming it and fast forwarding to this. It's kind of similar themes and it's all feeding into this central thing. of anti-clonialism and just the love of nature and I think it it works quite well for kind of a

teenage like young adult sort of audience I think it's quite good because it is fairly on the nose a lot of the time by the time you get to like the the horse like running in slow motion and on fire it's almost like beating you over the head with like what it's trying to say with its story but at the same time it's kind of weirdly effective that whole sequence with the the tree being torn down at that point is kind of an emotional highlight of the movie in terms of yeah, this is working in terms of winning me over to the, the main character and making the villains as villainous as possible and getting you in on the whole conflict of everything. Yeah, the CGI there was great.

Like the human, the very expressions on the, on the Navi, it was like very believable and sympathetic. Yeah, in that scene, like the technology there. wow like yeah you feel for them like genuinely it is yeah it's just doing so much and and i feel i think like how many other movies you just they couldn't do that like before this film because it's just the technology couldn't do it in a robert zemeckis film that's for sure they they were really trying yeah in those films and they just failed completely right and and here it's like it looks so good it looks so real that you're completely immersed in the story yeah my issues with the film are

like the human stuff, but I guess we can get into that. You were talking about like the, I like the nature aspects of the movie, the documentary stuff. And I, I listen to like James Cameron talk about like how he had to like defend some of these scenes from being cut like the flying scenes because they were kind of pointless to the plot where like they went on too long. Yeah. And that's that was kind of his defense. He's like, he says I like it, you know, basically. He's like and you know, he understood that that's kind of the appeal of the movie, right? like the world and like flying around and being in Pandora and not so much the plot itself and like the story because that's not really what works about this movie. That's more just like a

framework to explore like what he really wants to do with this world. And that's kind of what the new one looks like to me. Like he just wants to make a movie about the ocean like because he likes the ocean. That's that's how his films feel to me and that's you know, it's it's, I think you're right, Alex. It's about pushing the technology and and those aspects. It's not really about the story. Do you ever play the Avatar game? It was like an Ubisoft game, I think. It's funny, you asked.

I did. I did play that. Really? I think I have it somewhere. Oh, really? It's okay. I never beat it. It's too long.

It's really long. It seems like they really missed an opportunity, though, to be honest. It could have been much better, definitely. Wait, let me see if I have it because it should be right here. What was that on? 360, PS3?

Yeah, 360. Yeah, yeah. It might be here somewhere. I have heard it's all right. before that it's weirdly good for that era of like tying games. Yeah, there's the sequel to that game is coming

out before the movie, isn't it? I don't know. Oh, really? Well, there was a trailer for it or something, wasn't there? I don't know. Oh, for the game. I'll have to look into it. Yeah, the world of Pandora. So immersive. I don't know if you guys remember, we should mention. People were like

killing themselves when this movie came out so they could be reincarnated as like Navi or something. I mean, a couple people. Yeah, it's got quite a fan base. Yeah, very odd, but that, you know, I guess the film is just that immersive and mind-blowing when it came out. Well, I can understand why, because it's really heavily tapping into the whole, like,

my life sucks, and I'm going to plug myself into fucking, like, VR, and this is where, like, the real shit is. And, like, as soon, also remember this element of it and why this might connect to some of the, the people there. he shows up and they're like choose a woman like they're literally like you get to just pick a fucking girl like that we have to acknowledge Mike connect to some of these people also

literally just like oh shit I was born in the wrong universe and species where I can you know if I was just there then they would accept me and I would be able to live a simple life off the land and no fucking bullshit society just small tribe shit and I get to fuck whichever one of them I want and they have to, they can't refuse. It's one of the kind of cool critiques, right?

Yeah, maybe it was kind of eye-opening in that it's in its critique of like the United States government and like the military and kind of greed and capitalism and that kind of thing. Maybe that made people like want to kill themselves or something. No, it's just it's it really taps into this like

level of escape that is like specifically targeted at people that feel like they don't belong in their current environment, right? So I can understand why there would be some people that would be like, I want to get away, you know. Yeah, something that I really love about this movie that I didn't fully appreciate the first time, or maybe just I did and I didn't remember. But I watched this with like good head.

headphones, noise-canceling headphones on the plane. I got my Bo's Quiet Comfort, what is it, 15 or whatever? They're really good airplane headphones. Anyway, I love that. And the soundtrack for this movie is fucking awesome. The score helps so much. I loved the score in this movie. I thought that it's like easily one of the strongest elements of the entire film.

I think people make fun of it because it's kind of like, like, nah, whatever. The whole movie, but I think it really works for the movie. film yeah I think it's completely immersive James Wholener isn't it yeah super well composed super appropriate when it's used yeah I think that's the word it exists for a lot of the movie but it hits those beats those tones perfectly it captures exactly yeah what should be there at any given moment and it's so unique I think too like you know yeah great score and and yeah that's why um so since watching it in 2009

there's been this whole sort of cynical I don't know what we want anti-avita yeah pushback this yeah but that's going to happen because it's like the most it's the highest grossing film of all time it's the highest grossing film ever so there's obviously going to be like contrarianism which is fine for sure

people accuse me of doing that with every movie that's fine I think it's a decent movie though like yeah I was gonna say it's better than Jurassic World. I brought up the list of like the top 20 odd movies. Just to see what kind of affair was in there just to refresh my memories. And after Avatar you got what endgame, Titanic, The Force Awakens, Infinity War,

No Way Home, Jurassic World, the Lion King 2019, The Avengers Furious 7, Frozen 2, Age of Ultron, Black Panther, all this stuff, pre-existing IP. It's the only one that's an original story where the director is the same as the writer. So at least on those grounds, that's something. I'm okay with that being above because it's that is just such an extra challenge in and of itself. You don't realize how much of an advantage you have if you are basing your story on something like a Harry Potter novel of decades of comic book history where you can cherry pick the best stories from like all these different writers. You've got so much to choose from. These pre-existing fan bases.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. What I was going to say is despite there being, you know, this pushback. against it. A lot of what is being focused on in this pushback. I think it was Jack's films that made the video where he was going around asking people,

like, can you name a single character from this movie? Like, you've seen it, you love it. Can you name a single character? Nobody can. And that's a valid criticism. It's also a valid criticism to say it's the exact same plot as dances with wolves, Pocahontas, Furngully, etc. You know, it's a recycled plot.

These are all valid criticism. criticisms, but my experience of the movie wasn't really attached to the result of the outcome of those criticisms. My experience of the movie was all about the visuals, the soundtrack, and the overall, like, tone and experience. In terms of, like, feeling for these characters and having sympathetic, empathetic characters, feeling for the beats in the story, and caring about the world, that, was done really well, and I really cared about those things, and I felt the intended emotions during those parts, despite me still not really being able to remember a character's name. You know, like, it doesn't really matter to my experience.

They created a memorable universe, but not memorable characters. I remember the characters' names. I remember the characters' names. I'm just saying that. I don't have to even look them up. I know Natieri and Jake Sully. That was never a criticism for me. I thought the characterization is kind of weak at points, like, or a little too broad or, like, kind of stereotypical, one-sided. Isn't the whole point that the, uh, the planet is the character? Like, everyone, I guess is Pandora, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Everyone remembers all the creatures and the birds and the, like, weird dog things. I remember Unobtainium. Everyone remembers Unobtainium. I remember, yeah, the parts with Pandora. My criticisms with it are like, the human stuff and, like, whenever it's live action, basically, It's just like the people talking in the lab, the unobtainium, right, those characters, the Stephen Lang character, you know, I really, that character's really over the top. It's fucking, like, ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah.

Take your eyes for juju beads. He's way over the top. He brings up the cheesiness factor by a significant amount. The comically large knife, that. That's fun. That's kind of cheap. He's just like the evil general. Yeah, there's no solity to it.

And, you know, Sigourney Weaver's like the, she's kind of a tough chick for one scene. And then she becomes like, we got to save the trees. You got to save the environment. Michael Rodriguez playing the character she plays in everything was also kind of funny. Yeah, she was kind of like. Just being Michelle Rodriguez. And, you know, the protagonist of the movie, Jake Sully is just kind of like the stereotypical kind of. Blank slate character.

Yeah, you kind of impose yourself on too. Yeah, he's just a stand-in for the audience, basically. Yeah, he's better when he's, you know, a Navi, and with the Navi stuff, you know, I think the Navi stuff was so, it was so much more compelling than the stuff, like, with the humans. I found Sigourney Weaver's performance to be much better as a Navi. I found her to be, like, kind of annoying in human world for some reason. Mm-hmm. That's how I felt about everybody.

She was, the way she talked. Yeah, it was, like, really bizarre. I found the Navi world more interesting and just better and everyone's seen more into it. It looked like a TV show when it was like on the human side, right? Yeah. Like it's just like so kind of flat to me. I do like how that angle of it does help for certain scenes of tension, because there are some good action and good tension, because it is also an action movie first and foremost. So by the time you get to the action scene towards the end with the comically large knife in the meck suit,

fighting the dog and you you have the kind of extra layer at play with jakes like original body in the pod like in the background with the mek trying to find him and i like the way it kind of builds and it establishes a lot of ground rules that it tends to stick to and explore in a kind of satisfactory way and it's never overwhelming i don't find the exposition to be too distracting because of that pace it's just constantly moving the dialogue yeah isn't great it has a lot of the the kind of hoorah aliens type stuff and it's kind of weird sometimes like clashing against the

I don't know the more like realism of the ecology stuff but it is kind of a corny movie I feel like that tone is almost necessary for how much stuff they're trying to achieve with it there's certain yeah there's certain things you just have to accept

and you're right they're just like they just took Marines from like aliens and just put them in this movie it's just like the exact same thing that's all I'm thinking I'm like oh it's just the Marines I feel like

there could have been a bit more depth to like the villains. I don't think that that was like absolutely necessary where it's like, well, we'll just make them fucking leave. Like, it's a little it's a little much. The way that, just the black and white

nature that they're portrayed as, which is you know. Right. It's the highest grossing film ever. Maybe you just need it to be simple, but I don't know. I don't know how much they would have been losing. The Navi are portrayed with so much more dimension and like, yeah. sympathy. They're like, yeah, they have so much more complexity to them than like the human

characters in this film. They're so just like one-dimensional. I don't like how they ripped the design of the kernel off of a claw from Kimba because he has a scar on his face. I don't like how they did that. They should be sued by Tezica's estate. How did you feel about all the like mech stuff? Because I thought the mech stuff wasn't, it didn't age quite as gracefully as the Navi stuff in contrast. Visually? Yeah, that stuff looks kind of weak. Yeah. Yeah. There's the old shot. Yeah. It's kind of that thing, you know, with like Iron Man when he's in the big suit and it like shows his face when he's in it.

It's like that disconnect. Your brain can tell very much. Any shot involving like a human performance and also in CGI, like when they're in the mecks suits or like being held by Navi or something like that, interacting with Navi. I thought that stuff looked kind of weird. I don't think they were quite there yet. I think maybe now would look better. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I thought it was still good, though. Like, these are all, like, the story, yeah, that's what everyone criticizes. But, you know, in terms of what he's trying to get across, I think it works pretty well. Yeah, he had different goals, I guess.

Yeah. It wasn't necessarily about, like, the characters specifically, I guess. Yeah. You know. This is why I'm so curious about what he's, his approach to these other. movies. Yeah. It's been so long.

And all this stuff about like gathering three or four different writers to all give a different treatment. And it seems like he's taking a different approach with it because what other angle is there? You've proven that the world's kind of cool and interesting and you've got the ecology side of it. But now you've got to continue the story in some way. Yeah, what the fuck?

What else is it play even? You kind of solve a lot of the central conflict in the movie by the end. Yeah. Well, they're just going to come for more unattain. name? I have no idea. I have no idea. That's true.

I'm worried. What's annoying to me is that I'm worried they're going to pull like a matrix reloaded and have Avatar 2 leave on a cliffhanger. Because we know that there's more coming. That's what I'm anticipating being annoyed about. It's like the end on a cliffhanger nature of these sequels that I'm hoping doesn't happen. But probably will. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, they've created a really interesting world where, you know, a bunch of nerds will want to leave their own lives and go to it. You know, you've got reincarnation. You've got like the tree of life. And the whole idea of like, oh, I didn't believe in magic as a scientist, but now I hear the trees and it's their ancestors and it's real. There's something more. It's like it feels like there's more purpose to that world than boring human world.

It's like humans don't even live past their deaths, but the Navidu or something. Like every animal has like a USB slot, you know? And then it's like, I don't even have to train you. You just fucking... That's how they do it. That's how they bang. Apparently, I remember, like, there was like a YouTube parody animation or something where they fucked with their hair. It was like Avatar sex scene.

Yeah, that was Harry Partridge. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's in the movie. I thought it was in the movie, but then it wasn't. I'm pretty sure there's an extended sex scene in the extended version of the movie. Do they fuck with their hair? Because I'm pretty sure that's what the joke. Yeah, right?

Yeah. Okay. I didn't watch the extended version. Or maybe I don't know what the difference is between them. I was waiting for that part and I was like, did I remember it wrong? If they fuck with their hair, then surely they're just fucking everything they communicate with. I don't know if they do fuck with their hair. I think we're just confusing it with the animation.

I think we've canonized the animation in our memories Oh really? That's what I was about to say is like I don't think they actually do I remembered them doing that But I think it was because of that animation I don't think it ever showed them fucking with their hair And I'm glad that I'm not the only person that got confused

Because I don't think that happened I to be honest I don't even care what the truth is That is just how it sits in my mind That is just the law in my head canon I thought that was just canon Watching this movie made me feel like perhaps in a first draft What they did with their hair was actually with their tails or something And then maybe the studio was like that's too weird to do it with their hair

Because like on all these other species like it's not really their hair It's like an appendage it's like a like just a weird thing Coming out of any place in their body Yeah But the Navi it's specifically their hair and that sticks out is weird to me Because they style their hair in other parts so it's like okay well they cut their hair, right? And it's like, it's not really...

Yeah, so what's the... Like, what's the... It makes it weird to think about how that works like, mechanically or biologically, I guess. Yeah, but they're aliens, so... I know, if it was with their tails, though, it would make more sense. The hair part makes it weird. I do like the weirdness, though.

I think it's kind of hilarious. Because it's like individual strands. Yeah, it is weird. I like... Which parts of it are, like, for the style on the, like, on their bang? like if they pulled back more their bangs would it connect with the thing if they grew out their bangs and Because parts of their hair like the style parts Yeah maybe they style around the central

Maybe someone in the comments can answer this for you Is the hair hiding another tail coming from their head That's what I'm kind of picturing in my head is like the hair is covering some sorts of appendage that they And they style it But yeah I don't think they fucked with their hair I think that was the animation Okay Someone in the comments, the Avatar Lawex book can let us know on that one. Yeah, I remembered it that way, but I think we've been bamboozled.

Because it's been so long. How do you do this? Like, how... It's been so long. This is like... There's so many video games that have this happen, but, like, I don't know. Like, you'd expect it to just be cancelled at this point, you know? It was like Duke Nukem forever.

Yeah. But because of it standing as the top grossing movie, like I guess you can just have as much time as was needed? Is it a needed situation? Like, it doesn't seem like he was in any rush to get it out. It was going to be out like two years ago before Disney bought Fox or something, right? Yeah, it's confusing the whole strategy. Like, maybe they can't properly gauge the interest or something.

Like, maybe they're not confident at this point. I don't know what they're thinking internally about, like, the prospects of Avatar. Because surely they want to push it and make it as big as possible with the whole Disney World integration and just the potential for another franchise for them to like milk into the ground. So the teaser trailer was posted one day ago. It has 11 million views. Okay.

I swear like there have been other like big movies that have gotten way more than like the Batman trailer probably got way more than that in a day. Yeah, Marvel movies got a lot. Yeah. But is it, yeah, is it even the same thing? Yeah, I don't, I don't know if they can possibly do like top 10 grossing with this. Unless they have like the craziest trailer two or something. Like, I don't know. They're going to have to, I don't know what they're going to do.

Because like, how are they even going to communicate in a trailer how like revolutionary the effects are? And will they even be? What are they relying? Will they even be revolutionary effects? Because we can't tell from the teaser trailer. if that's the case like it certainly doesn't feel and they can't really lead with the mystery of the story because it's already known as the movie with the kind of boring story that no one really cares about so it's like what what part of this is the is the hook yeah maybe uploading the trailer in 1080p didn't help maybe they should have thought about that one because it definitely looked better in theaters I'm watching I'm watching it right now I'm like wow this looks like I haven't mentioned that the whole like point was that it's supposed to be pushing 3D technology as well. Yeah.

Did you guys see it in 3D at the time? I did. I did. That was like the only way to see it for... Because it was actually impressive. Like it genuinely was... It did add to the experience to see it in 3D. Yeah.

For sure. That's one of the few 3D movies I like. Like I would say you should watch in 3D. Like a life of pie or gravity or like one of those. Kind of Pounder 2. When he first gets into the avatar body and it does his like feet shot, I'm like, damn, there's probably a couple people that really like that one.

Just imagining that in 3D. Yeah, this whole movie probably awakens some things for some people. Well, I mean, yeah, I definitely did for some people. Did you see that? There's an episode of how-to with John Wilson where he goes to the Avatar fan club meetup? Oh, no.

Oh, it's in season two. It's really good. You haven't seen season two? It's such a great show. Anyway, yeah, he hangs out with the Avatar there's like 10 of them. And they seem like, I don't know. Furries But not And they're all speaking Navi

So I think Navi is like a real language by the way Oh yeah yeah No I looked into it someone is credited for creating the language Yeah Yeah they did go in That's a cool thing to imagine Creating a language Yeah creating worlds is a huge undertaking

A colossal undertaking Like it's just watching like the Lord of the Rings behind the scenes The dune behind the scenes And that's with like novels that really exist. Like that's already a huge process. So I do, I do respect that side a bit more than almost how the story comes together. It's almost a better setting for a story than the story we have in Avatar.

Sure. And I kind of want to talk a bit more about unobtainium for a second. I never knew this fact about unobtainium, right? Like apparently it's, it's like the real term. Like it's engineering jargon for a material. that would be perfect for our purposes if we could get it, which we can't. Sometimes an object that actually exists or existed at one time becomes unobtainium because it's unavailable now and it's like a real thing.

Still sounds stupid. But the term was like popularized. Yeah, it does still sound super, but it was like popularized by Avatar. So now I'm just like, well, it's what the scientist actually, it's like a real term. popularized by the movie. Yeah, but not like a, can you really specific thing, though, right? Because you're talking about, you're talking about

unobtainium being used as a term to encompass like a type of, a group of things, right? Like anything that we could, yeah, but they're, they're talking about unobtainium as like an element, like an actual singular thing. So he's actually describing it. That's like the name.

of the element or is he like saying it as a businessman like he he holds up a rock and he says this is unobtainium that's like yeah it's not like i see it what you're saying unobtainium is any element you can't get yeah that's not how they used it in the movie that's not that's not how it's used in this movie he literally just holds up a rock it is a specific mineral unobtainium in this movie yeah which they can only get on pandora by killing a bunch of innocent navi and destroying their tree Okay, so this is some fluid karma shit then. Yeah, they goofed it. Why would you commit to that name, though?

It's so... Because they're dumb. I don't know. Why would you... It's such a stupid name. Yeah. How could... Nobody likes that, right?

Nobody likes that that's the name. No. And it's maybe one of the most famous things from this movie, as far as if we're going to talk about the, like, culture impact is one of the biggest memes. Which one's that from? Yeah, I know that's the MCU one. And I looked up, um, Transformers has one. It might be dumber.

It's called a Transformers for them. Is it Transformers for them? Yeah, I was going to mention that earlier. No. I was going to mention that in the beginning. It's in Transformers of Four. Stanley Tucci or like whatever. Yeah.

Age of Extinction. Yeah, Age of Extinction is going to transformium. No. Beautiful. It transforms in anything. It transforms into a JBL speaker. That's what. what happens in the movie.

Oh, God. In this product placement. Do you remember the one from Southland Tales? No. Remember that one? What was that? Fluid karma. Oh.

Fluid karma. You don't remember? Why are they all that? Why is this like such a thing? Because it's so core to so much of science fiction. Like you need a device to have a call for, like a reason. The names don't have to be that dumb. Oh, no.

The names don't have to be that dumb for sure. I don't know why you'd settle on Transformy. All of the, all of the names are so dumb. Yeah You're right It's just the sci-fi Mcuffin Like you just need one

And it's like They know they give up I guess They're just like I don't know what to call it Call it Transformium You should have called it James Cameranium

Yeah Just take the title Of the movie Yeah, Anatium does sound like a temporary Something you'd call it temporarily And like we'll come back to that Suisquidium

Yeah What are we some kind of Suez Squadium Yeah Did you find it funny how Because this came out in 2009 And I guess vlogging wasn't like a big A big thing by that point

But that's like a part of the story Where it's the way Jake Sally's like documenting his journey By video logging Yeah I just thought it was funny how they The script felt unnecessary to like explain That this was like an odd thing for him to be doing Even then now it's like

Not that strange of a concept Yeah that's funny I didn't think about that What year is this supposed to be set Oh dear Kimo 2009. I think it's... I don't think it ever...

Okay, it says 2154 according to the Wiki fandom thing. 2154. Yeah, I didn't have that note down. And yeah, another, like, a just throwaway funny thing was when Sugony Weaver is in her avatar, she's got like a Stanford shirt on, like, that fits her avatar, which, like,

I didn't even notice. I didn't even notice. Just a flex that she went to Stanford to all the navvee. which is really funny. They just, yeah, they, she stole one from like a basketball player or something. She was very comfortable in that world. Yeah, she's like very casual with them.

Well, one of the other jokes was the papyrus font. Did you not spot that with the subtitles? Oh. Yeah, with the title. Yeah, it was like a big, like, joke with this movie is like the reliance on the papyrus font and like using papyrus on the poster and stuff. That's like the SNL skit with Ryan Gassling.

I've seen that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's quite funny. And what about the Leona Lewis song in the credits, right? Is it ends? Oh, I don't remember. Oh, yeah. That was...

For the amount of commitment they'd do to this, like, amazing score and, like, set in this whole world, and then ending it on this, like, Leona Lewis song that just dates it instantly to 2009. Yeah. Oh, ex-like... It was trying to be, like, Titanic again, you know, with the Slideon song, because that was, like, the huge... True. But this movie didn't quite have the...

probably what they were doing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's definitely why they did it. They definitely modeled like a lot of things off of the success of Titanic to do this again. The love story, like all that, like it felt very James Cameron. Yeah, like a big tragedy in the, yeah. Yeah, but it's also an action film. Yeah, it's very epic. I mean, James Cameron knows how to make an epic for sure. That's why he barely makes films. I mean, he only has a few films, like, I can think of, but they're all great. And they feel like, they, they can, like, they They're so all-encompassing. They have so much going on.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. What else do you have to say about this? Well, my notes are more difficult to go through because there's seven pages of real paper instead of like on my computer or whatever. Oh, okay. But yeah, I really...

I loved what it was. I wish it felt more smart would be my biggest criticism. It feels stupid. it at many points. Yeah. I would have loved the same movie feeling more intelligent. The characters were stronger, more original. It almost feels like it's trying to be as broad as possible.

Yeah, in order to get to those, like, Titanic kind of numbers. Like, it is, like, the most hyper-sympathetic angle you could possibly take the two sides. One is comically evil. One is, like, almost comically sympathetic. Yeah, it is very simple. I just don't have much else to say that, like, other people haven't said about the movie. I think for a broad movie it is kind of experimental and ambitious

That is what I like about it Yeah and odd right I'm kind of shocked at how much money it made right But then also it should have taken more risks With the story and certain aspects of the movie Because then it would have been even more unconventional And probably a better film for it So I misremembered the hair sex

I also misremembered the Like Sigourney Weaver I thought that her transfer into the avatar body was successful, but that wasn't the case. No, she does. No, no, it's more sets of that it's even a thing. There's so much weird stuff going on in this movie. And what's weird about it is like, they act like they've done it before,

because they're like, okay, here's what we do. Right? And then it works for the main character. I'm like, but who have you, who have we done this on before this point? Because you have like a, there's a methodology to this, right? You know what to do to do this. But, I don't know, do you just reincarnate your own body? But then you need a fresh body.

You need like a body to reincarnate into. Like, have you been doing this? That's weird to me. Yeah. Do they like swatts consciousness? Yeah. Yeah, I suppose there's some weird implications with that that's possible. Yeah.

Because like they essentially just invented like immortality, which is probably more vexiousness. valuable than the unobtainium. They could have been, they could have mentioned that, but I guess it didn't work until the end. That's what Avatar 2, 3, 4, and 5 are about. Yeah, they're going to, they're going to have some weird scarred villain show up and be like, they know how to immortality now.

We have to kill them. I don't know. Yeah, good movie. I love the soundtrack. But I don't know how much I would love the soundtrack independently of the film. I think that it works really well in the movie. I don't know if I'm going to listen to it outside of the film. Yeah, I haven't listened to it outside the film.

But I do remember it, and I think it fits the film perfectly. People kind of make sure. Yeah, it really highlights certain moments. You know, like the flying scenes particularly enhanced. I'm really interested to watch this on, like, 4K Blu-ray, because then I could really see, like, if there's, like, imperfections in the animation, too. I mean like... Not your phone?

Not your telephone? Yeah. Not your fucking phone. Yeah. Sounded great. On your headphones. Yeah. I liked it.

Yeah, can't complain. It's an epic James Cameron film. It feels like a James Cameron film. Yeah. Despite James Cameron... I think he's made better movies than this, though. Despite him not being like fucking Michelle Hanukkah or anybody, you know? Despite him not doing that,

I really... I really... value his voice in filmmaking. I think that he's... He makes very different kinds of movies. They're very him. That's exactly what I'm saying, though. It's like they're...

But they're really well done. Yeah. They're like... I appreciate him existing in this filmmaking culture. To me, he's like a Redley Scott or a Nolan. He's like, yeah, completely like his movies are great. He makes some of the best movies like in his genres that he tries to do. Yeah, like Land of Goody.

Land of Gucci. The House of Gucci. Gucky. But like, yeah. But like Terminator 1 and 2, like, you know,

those are some of the best sci-fi movies out there and Titanic, obviously, great movie. Aliens, yeah. Yeah, alien is right.

Alien Covenant. That was that. I think I like a game camera a bit more than I like Ridley Scott. I'm going to be honest. Ridley Scott's made a lot more movies. Yeah,

Scott's made great movies. Really, Scott doesn't take time with his films, especially at this point. No, no, that's the thing. He makes a lot more movies and they're very hit or miss. Right, but some of them are like really great. Like, wow, that gladiator or that alien with the Thelma and Luis or whatever. But yeah, James Cameron takes more time. But, you know, James Cameron's probably just going to make Avatar movies for the rest of his life,

which, you know, I don't know how to feel about that. And I would like for him to make at least like one other. kind of film. Maybe he'll just produce them after. I mean, that would be fun. Maybe he'll just produce them and directs up. I don't know how much more it feels like he's got left to prove, you know? Yeah, exactly.

Kind of like what he did with the Terminator movies, you know, how he just produced those, like, after two. You know, three or four. He has another project other than Avatar that is announced but doesn't have a date. It's called the informationist. based off of a Taylor Stevens novel. So who knows? But yeah.

The schedule, the supposed schedule for the Avatar films that he's listed as being the director for all of them right now is Avatar the Way of the Water 2020. Man. Avatar 3, 2024. Avatar 4, 2026. Avatar 5, 2028. So Avatar 5 in 2028. that's that feels like how old am I going to be in 2028

I'm gonna be almost 40 I'm gonna be closer to 40 than 30 I think man we can't be thinking about Avatar 5 right now that's crazy let us decide after the water one yeah right after this huge gap though like of a decade we're gonna get like five

avatar movies like over the span of you know eight years yeah one every two years yeah that's fucking crazy yeah they better They better hope they're like worth it. If this one bombs, like, there's so much writing on Avatar 2 right now. I know.

That's why they should just make Avatar 2 and then see what happens. And then, you know, maybe wait. It doesn't have to be a decade, but maybe wait five years and then make the next one. Yeah.

Now that Disney owns Fox, especially. Like, I definitely want to see it because I want to see how far the technologies come since this movie. Like, I want to see how much better it looks.

that trailer, like seeing in a theater, I thought it looked really good. Like, the water stuff looked awesome. So I'm curious. And then maybe six years from now or whatever, we'll see how far they come again. But I don't know. Do you want to get into ratings for this? Yeah. Do you have more to say?

Yeah, I do. Yeah. It's just like, I just have nothing else to add to what other people have said about this movie. I mean, the general consensus from like everyone who's seen it, it's just like, yeah, it looks great. It's just the story and the characterization is really weak. And yeah, I agree with that.

They're way too cardboard cut out characters for me to, like, actually invest in. Except for whenever the movie's, like, focused on the Navi and, like, Natiri and, I guess, her brother, like, you know, all that stuff. Like, the guy who's in charge of the tribe. Like, I'm like, wow, this stuff is, like, the Hulk of the movie for me. Like, this stuff is great and so well done. I just wish the other stuff with the humans was a bit better. and yeah, I don't know. Seven out of ten?

Yeah, let's go there. Go ahead. Yeah, I think I'm slightly low. I hover around three star, six out of ten for this movie. Yeah. I do like a lot of what it's doing, especially like that world building angle, but you need more.

Like the whole, the critique with the kind of white savior slant, you know like el dorado or something where it's this figure from the other culture coming in and like saving the culture in some way um the the interesting angle here being that he he literally biologically becomes like the other culture so that's like a weird interesting spin on that um yeah i'm not sure how to fully feel about or break down but he was doing blue face yeah it's i do like the weirdness, despite how it is critiqued for how big and bloated and broad it is, it does have some memorable sequences that I just haven't forgotten. Like, yeah, the flying scenes, the chase sequences, the certain creatures that they interact with, the smaller moments, the more,

yeah, the more childlike kind of moments, they've stuck with me and that side of it is cool. I get that. But yeah, the other side is the plot. They're trying so much. It's it's a long movie they're trying to squeeze in a lot they're asking you to to buy this whole conflict and the way it builds up and yeah it's very entertaining but yeah it is

it is a bit long yeah I'm okay with it maybe the Michelle Rodriguez stuff could have been cut or cut down I don't know yeah it's it's Avatar and I'm giving this money seven out of ten

I uh yeah it to, there's a lot of crazy revolutionary stuff about it, perhaps not in the story, but didn't really feel like I needed it to be that. It would have been great if it felt more intelligent. You know, a better story would have been nice. It would have, I mean, up the rating for sure, but I think it still works regardless. It's not like so bad of a story that I, you know,

it takes away from being able to feel the moments that it wants me to feel. And that's, yeah, that's what matters most to me, is just being able to feel those moments. Sure. Seven out of ten. Yeah, that Stephen Lang character was so cliche. It's comically evil. I would have preferred if he had.

He was a little more. Yeah, he's like a cartoon character. Yeah, complete cartoon. All right, I guess we're dope. We're good to do in the questions. Let's do some questions from the Sardonicus community. If you want to leave your own questions for us to answer in future episodes, head over to the suggestion thread on the subreddit, just like even JC98 did, who's going to start us off here. I've noticed that most kids cartoons tend to have large adult fan bases who oftentimes demand that the show they're watching contains more serious elements as to not feel ashamed for watching something meant for toddlers.

What are your thoughts on such fans who are old enough to drink that get very passionate about children's cartoons? This is not to shame anybody who watches kids cartoons, but I've been noticing a trend for a while now of teenagers, oftentimes grown adults, who not only get passionate about a show meant for kids, but oftentimes demand that they include more serious elements, such as covering topics like abuse, trauma, etc. These same people also get quite heated when you bring up

the show that they're watching was meant for a younger demographic in mind, such as shows rated TV Y7 or TV PG. Is this, is this, supposed to be about Mr. Enter without mentioning Mr. Enter. Is this the turning red 9-11 thing? Maybe. Yeah, we had a few questions about that. I'm a, yeah, this question is weirded, worded very weirdly for me, weirded.

Because I, yeah, there's a lot of children's media that, you know, proves that it can be more serious and proves that it can, it can, you can still have something be good and for kids. But as soon as they said the word toddlers, like, meant for toddlers, I'm like, who the fuck are you talking about? Like, people are going, like, to baby shark being like, why didn't you include more about trauma and abuse? Like, I think you're just making up a person. Shows made for toddlers, really? Or do you mean shows made for, like, young kid, like, six to ten?

Yeah, that seems like they added that toddler a bit. Yeah, toddler is an exaggeration and makes the question no longer, like, you're just making up a person. You're straw manning a person, in my opinion. toddlers that's baby shark what else what's for toddlers like anyway um yeah depending on the show yeah i guess they meant like um i don't know what they're getting at like my little pony stephen universe yeah those aren't those aren't really made for toddlers no yeah i don't see how it's really an issue unless it is like just just hilariously absurd critiques like that

that turning red one where it's like yeah it's just a bit silly yeah I like the memes that came from that that's fun yeah that's the thing though it's it's almost worth it just for the memes yeah surely the writer for turning red

I forget her name surely she knows about this now because it's such a big meme that now her yeah you'd think right there's no way she not she would have missed that that's fun to me like articles were written about it, you know. Yeah.

That's a, that's a weird one. Like, I'm not going to, like, shit on someone too hard for just having, like, a weird opinion that I disagree with. I just think it's funny that now 9-11 and turning red are, like, associated with each other because of this, which is just so weird. It was a very America-centric criticism. Oh, very much so. Yeah.

Yeah, I would have to, I don't know, to properly answer this question. I'd have to get like a better example of like a real person like I look at some kids movies and I'm like okay this this kid's movie is dumb and bad and you know it's four kids and I'm not a kid and that's you know part of why it's bad in my rating is I'm experiencing it as an adult and I'm reviewing my experience with the film right so I consider that to be like a legitimate criticism if things are you know inaccessible for adults and only for kids I think that's a legitimate criticism. That doesn't mean that I think that there should be no content exclusively for children. That just means I don't like it and I think it's bad. You know, good for babies is not the same as

good for me. So, I don't see. What fan base doesn't have like a pool of some interesting ones in that, you know? Yeah. It's just, it's just going to happen, especially with huge properties. You know, we just talked about Marvel. I mean, you know, millions, if not billions of people watch this stuff, like they're huge properties a lot of the time. So, yeah, of course, there's going to be some interesting reactions in there. I don't have much to say about that. Okay. How do we feel on this one from Skeptic Film Buff, who says, J.K. Rowling has come under a lot of fire for her bigoted opinions on trans people. However, she still seems to get jobs, such as writing the most recent fantastic beast movie. Do you think that Hollywood should stop hiring people who have problematic opinions?

like Rowling? Or do you think it should be more open to people with varying political opinions? I don't think people with problematic opinions should be writing the movie. Yeah. Sorry, were you done with the question? I didn't know. Well, I just wanted to read like another one that's basically on the same line. It's kind of phrasing in a...

Because this is like a question we get like a lot, the kind of art versus artist type thing. So, yeah, Marsh Movie Freak says, is it hard for any of you to separate specific celebrities in their personal lives? from the work they make. For example, I'd love to enjoy Elizabeth Moss or even Michael Pena to an extent in the movies slash shows they're in, but it's very difficult for me to separate them from their work from the fact that they're all active Scientologists. It also doesn't help that Moss in particular comes off as incredibly hypocritical when she not only stars in a TV

show about an abusive cult, but also claims to be an LGBT plus advocate when Scientology doctrine teaches its members to be anything but thanks for the awesome work guys. So a big one. but it's kind of yeah a question we get well you're kind it's so much of Hollywood doesn't doesn't jk. Relling like own the rights to the fantastic beats shit like they I don't know if like fantastic beats and where to grow them yeah like I don't know I don't know what the situation is there but my understanding is that it would be

pretty difficult not for her not to be making money off of it either way So, like, if you want to watch something in the Harry Potter universe, you're going to have to settle with the fact that it's attached to J.K. Rowling. Otherwise, don't watch Harry Potter shit. You can vote with your wallet if you want to. They could have gotten someone else to write it for sure. I mean, it's written, but like, it's based off an original screenplay by and then written by someone. Like, I don't know how much power she has. They probably have a contract that was signed well before she was canceled on Twitter, right? Like, they had like five of these fantastic Beast movies. greenlit. So there's probably, like, I have to assume that they're, this isn't just like, oh, they're creating new contracts every movie. Like, they're making more. And they probably already have this shit figured out. Well, yeah, the latest one on that was, I'm pretty sure there's some kind of Harry Potter video game coming out. And that was where it kind of flared up again, even though I don't think she was writing on it or anything, but it just brings up this,

this discussion. But it's complicated, right? If we're talking about like a video game or a big movie, we're talking about productions of hundreds of people involved. She's not the only person involved in the production. Yeah, I know. And I try not to. Someone higher up, like a producer, like, know, like, what she's doing

or like the implications of that. People may not go see the movie because of that and just, like, get rid of her. Like, put some other writer there who's actually not going to write and say stupid shit like that. You know, I think it's like, I don't think she should be writing something like that. I get it's like hundreds of people involved, but it's not like one guy who's like working on the set. It's like the writer of the movie or the producer, like these big guys.

Like, yeah, if they're a fucking an issue, I hear nothing but bad things about J.K. Rowling. I don't know what she said exactly. If you want to you guys know, maybe you could tell me, but she's, she's weirdly obsessed and insistent on the whole idea that trans women are not women. and so she's very she seems very weirdly emotionally attached to that outcome in a way that is like okay you're just like kind of like you're kind of just a freak okay but yeah um yeah so she she could just easily just no anyway but um i try not to get too involved in the idea of uh boycotting

films over, you know, individuals that are participating in the film, no matter how important they are to the filmmaking process. Because, like, I still want to watch more Roman Polansky films. You know, like, there's going to be people that are mad at me for seeing the new Aquaman to, you know, because of Amber Heard. But I like James One, you know, she's not the only person in the movie. I get it. She's already making her money from this, you know, like she might not get cast in future ones if it bombs, I guess. But, like, at the the same time, I don't know. I feel like if I start doing it to one,

then I have to do it to all of them. And that's a, that's a, where do you draw the line? Pandora's box, I don't want to open Pandora's box on that one. Because everyone in Hollywood's a fucking pedophile. So I just have to stop watching movies if I were to, there's people who are worse than others, Adam. There's people who are worse than others. And I go see everything in fucking theaters.

So it doesn't matter to me. I see fucking movies. Yeah, there's some worse pedophiles than the other. Yeah, I'll see Aco Man 2 or whatever. I'll see Aquaman 2, whatever, because I don't give a shit. I see any fucking horrible movie in theaters. It's not like it matters to me.

But yeah, I'm not going to enjoy it because of these fucking problematic people involved. Yeah, like, why should I? Like, when Amber heard Joy's inch comes in, we're like, yeah, no, well, not. If I opened that box and like, you know, stop, if I were, if I loved Harry Potter, which I don't, I'm not watching Fantastic Beasts

because I don't give a shit about Fantastic Beasts, not because of any political reason. But if I did love the Harry Potter, I'd be watching them even if you know disagreeing with uh what jk rowling says about trans people i'd still be watching them um because if i stopped then i would also have to consider the fact that some of the products i buy are from nestley i buy things off amazon like fucking nestley desly gets shit for child labor like this is this is like more serious than like political comments like i think people are so fucking ignorant over like where they're

shit comes from. The meat industry, that's a fucking huge one. Everybody has their fucking blinders on about that one. Like, holy shit, if we're going to start doing this, like, JK Rowling is not at the top of the list. So that's, I don't want to open that box. Like, I think that human beings are like just inherently destructive and bad for the planet. You know, like, our existence and our population is like more of an issue than these Hollywood people. Okay, I get what you're saying, but like, no one wants to, no one likes JK Rowling anymore. Like, I hear nothing with bad things. Like, she should not be involved with writing the movies or anything.

I don't give a shit. I'm not watching them. She's just like fucking produced them. She's a moron. Yeah. This is just a core thing with art. Like, I remember it so clearly when I was a teenager when I learned about like Austin Scott Card being like a huge homophobe.

And it started in that process of like, oh, I guess I've got to try and limit like media consumption based on the beliefs of the writers or the creators. or whatever but yeah it's you it's like impossible every single time you like oh Picasso was like a huge asshole or whatever it's like turns out people are assholes yeah you have to disconnect what they're making from themselves at a certain point if if you want there to be any sort of level of consistency because I value the art yeah the art yeah itself has value yeah exactly and it's like really complicated to this whole yeah saying and you do have to take it on a case by case basis and

of course you can speak with your wallet if you think that's that's appropriate response. I'm not going to prevent anyone from watching or not watching a movie for whatever reason they want to. If you don't want to watch it because of J.K. Railing, don't watch it because of J.K. Railing. But I'm just not watching it because it looks dumb. I mean, people didn't watch it. People didn't watch it. So it worked out. That movie fucking bombed. Yeah, it was horrendously written anyway. And they're still making the other ones. Are they really? I thought they canceled them. Yeah. I think they've been greenlit a long time ago.

I think they're obligated to. No, I think they, they think they, no. I think they're canceling it? No, I think they're canceling it? No? Well, they haven't said that. I think so. Yeah, I think they, I think they cancel.

Let's see, Wiki. I'll double check maybe. Did the last one not do too well? It didn't do well. No, it bombed. And it looked terrible. It looked terrible, so much controversy around it. You know, the Johnny Depp thing.

He was in the first two and then he's not the third one. There was a sequel to that. Yeah, really awful. Yeah. And the second one was awful. Yeah. I saw the first fantastic piece. It did not blow.

me away. I thought it was really mediocre. I didn't hate it. Yeah, it's just nothing. Yeah, but I've heard nothing but bad things about the second one. And this new one looks... Yeah, the second one is just... Fucking awful. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why. They, they were, like, killed that franchise. It's actually kind of funny how quickly they killed, like, one of the biggest franchises,

like, ever. It makes me think, like, oh, this superhero tread, it could fucking die out, like, really quickly, like, on the vine. Like, just like Harry Potter did, you know, these movies were the biggest thing in the world 10 years ago. and now, you know, now no one gives a shit. To be fair, I think Marvel has more longevity because they have more material to go through, more stories. They got so much material.

And it's more comicky. Like, I think the comedic tone really helps. Like, no one takes the shit seriously. Like, not as much as Harry Potter, you know? Like, the continuing storyline of that. I think people really worry. All the additive stuff is feels just like, you know, what W-B, the Hobbit, you know?

Yeah, you got the extra stuff too, but The Hobbit doesn't need like a trilogy. Fantastic Beast doesn't need five movies or whatever they're doing. Comic book movies don't need that much conclusion, right? It's more like episodic and right. They have like these events where it like peaks like the Avengers or something, but yeah, it's never like concluded. That's not really the point. Yeah, so there's nothing confirming or denying them making a Fantastic Beast's Four at the moment.

Like, so they're, they're supposed to be four and five. But we don't, we have no idea what they're going to do. I don't think that's going to happen though. It's like with those divergent insurgent movies, they just never made the last one. Oh, that's funny. It would be like a situation like that. Yeah. They just never bothered, right?

Like, if you're a fan of those books, like, I guess fuck you. That's funny. You need to go fuck yourself. Very passionate, divergent fan base. Yeah. Hey, I'm sure some people liked them. They were really excited for that last film. some people like scat

we can do one more question let's send on this one from greenhead 300 as long as Ralph mentions subiore movies since John Watts quit the Fantastic Four project Mike Stoclasser said Wes Anderson should direct a Marvel movie Sam Ramey directed Doctor Strange too and Ralph likes the Fantastic Four

probably because of Jessica Alba do you guys think Wes should direct Fantastic. I don't know why that's relevant to any of this. Do you think Wes should direct Fantastic Four? I like Jessica Oliver. She's cool. The movie, with the Fantastic Four movie, those movies suck.

They're funny. Yeah, I don't know what he's trying to say about you there. Yeah, I don't know. I like Jessica Alba, though. She's cool. Yeah, I don't think Wes Anderson's style would, like, compliment a Marvel film. I don't know, like, I would have to watch. the clip of Mike saying that

because I don't really know how serious that is. I think, yeah, I think Sam Ramey, his style fit pretty well, actually. I don't know how well Wes Anderson would. It's kind of budding heads, right? Yeah, because Dr. Strange, yeah, you can work horror into that.

How are you supposed to work Wes Anderson's style into Fantastic Four without like ruining the whole cohesive thing? It wouldn't be fantastic. Yeah, exactly. It would just be like Wes Anderson's. Yeah, like, You have to sacrifice one for the other.

You can't have both of those things going. It just doesn't make sense. I don't want to see Wes Anderson do something like that. I like him doing his own thing. Yeah. Yeah. Do more stop motion. That's what I want.

Spider-Man stop motion, Wes Anderson. That could be interesting. Yeah. We've already got the best fantastic four movie anyway with the Incredibles. I guess that we know that they're capable of letting a director do what they want. It's like the question is like, who do we want to see? like do a Marvel film. My answer is probably nobody because that just,

that's just a worse version of directors I like. You know, the Sam Ramey thing is like, oh, cool, you made a Sam Ramey film with a bit of Marvel in there. I'd rather watch a Sam Ramey film with no Marvel in there. So. Yeah, because then they kind of get swallowed up into the machine and then it's like, oh, I guess they're just the Marvel guy now. Like John Watts, how many Spider-Man movies did he do?

Tycho, Wittiti's on his second film movie now. Yeah, Tycho, Titi is just going to do Thor movies now, yeah. I wonder what they're going to do with that Fantastic Four, you know, because... I think they've got a big challenge with that. They got a big challenge making it. Because even in Dr. Strange, they didn't show the stretching that much. Because I feel like that as like a cool power is...

That's funny. How is that not goofy as hell? How are you supposed to make that cool? Yeah, you can't. You have to make it silly. The Fantastic Four are really goofy. I think that's the problem. Like, there's some of the goofiest, like, characters out there.

Yeah, it's very hard to do that. They're so, like, important to the whole Marvel universe. That's why I was just so shocked by the, um, the fan four-stick movie, how seriously, like, they took those characters. They always forget. It was shocking. Fucking film. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Man. He tried to, it tranked, all right. Tranked in the box office. Yeah. Yeah. He's trying to make, like, a Krodenberg film with that. Very odd.

Very, very odd. Yeah. Uh. You know, directors, there's just so many. And I don't want to see, like, a lot of directors do Marvel films. To me, those are, like, a different kind of realm. Like, yeah, like, keeping it consistent with the MCU. That's, like, that's the challenge.

I think Sam Ramey did it well. I don't know who I would want to see. Like, I would just, I would like to see, like, maybe a director just make, like, a superhero movie, not something in the MCU you know like Chris Nolan did good job

with his films but those were kind of you know he made those on his own those stand on their own they're not part of anything yeah you know like

there's lots of great directors where I'm like yeah I could see them making a good superhero film I mean I don't know a Ridley Scott Marvel movie well

yeah Ridley Scott could find some superhero make a film about them Looks like Doctor Strange Multiverse is doing well in the box office right now So maybe they'll give Sam Ramey another one

Yeah You know like Matt Reeves has proven He can make a good superhero film Like he should make a Daredevil film That would probably be decent Just give fucking Sam Ramey Another Spider-Man movie And don't make it so marvelized

You know Let him do fucking Toby 4 Okay I don't want to see him do another one I think he did a good job. I think he has his trilogy and he should just leave it there, especially after Spider-Man 3. I don't think it's going to get better.

It's probably going to be worse. He needs to redeem 3. That's why he needs a fool. Yeah. I like that John Watch just did his own thing. No, it's just like whatever. I think they were fucking tired making Spider-Man movies at that point. Let's someone else do it.

Yeah, if you make a trilogy, that's like 10 years of your life, you know? Do it. There's still time. Campbell as Mysterio. Get rid of Jake Jilly. I think what's more likely is, is Andrew Garfield one again. I think that's more likely than Toby and Sam Ramey coming back. Maybe Sam Ramey directing Vermont Webbe out, yeah. No. Maybe Sam Ramey directing Andrew Garfield's coming back. That would be, that would be interesting enough for me. Sam Ramey directing Andrew Garfield, Spider-Man. Yeah, maybe to do that. I'm not going to say no to that. Yeah. Surely,

that's preferable over like morbius and all that. Didn't they reveal there's another like random Spider-Man? One I never even heard of that's getting like a spin-off movie. Like it's just never ending on that same side with that. Yeah, Miss Webb or something. All right, I guess that about does it for questions. Yeah. Thank you.

I think it's my turn to recommend a recommendation of film. I think so. Well, this was on my list of things to potentially recommend for a while. And it seems like there's probably no better time than to talk about it than now. So this is a film from 2007 directed by Christian Mungu. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly. It's from Romania. It's called Four Months, Three Weeks, and Two Days.

This is a film that I'm not sure either of you have seen. I have no idea. Yeah, I haven't seen this one. Perfect. Perfect. All right. Awesome. Yeah.

Well, I'm happy to introduce you to it. There's a criterion for it. I'll be watching that. I already have it. So, yeah, if you don't want to be spoiled for the film four months, three weeks, and two days, watch it before the next episode. These episodes come out every two weeks. But you can listen to them early by going to Sardonicast.com.

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Also, Twitter, hashtag Sardonicast fan art. and also check out the Sardonicast Highlights channel. We're still trying to get that monetized. We just need some more watch hours. We have all the other stuff. Search up Sardonicast highlights, or the link is in the description, and you can see there's highlighted parts of Sardonicast

instead of having to figure out, what episode did they talk about beans? Then you can just be like, oh, it's the beans one. It's a beans highlight. Well, thanks for listening, everybody. And we'll catch you in four months, three weeks, and two days, but actually in two weeks. Nice.

Happy Shrek. Nice. Bye, everybody. Bye. Bye.