Sardonicast - Sardonicast 116: Gentleminions, Men, Nobody’s Fool (feat. The Right Opinion)

Episode Date: July 15, 2022

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Buy Sardonicast T-Shirts, and other merchandise at https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast. Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthemoviemaker Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Ralph's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ralphthemoviemaker Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Fan art: https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/tkgag3/this_is_a_fanart_that_i_made_for_the_boys_i_just/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/tnvj0v/found_an_old_vhs_in_my_family_home_titled_speed/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/tjm51n/no_movies/

Three, two, one. What is this a crossover episode? That was a quote from Horson Around. Hello, this is Adam from your movie sucks, and this is a podcast called SardanaCast. Hello, who else? I'm Ralph Seppi, Ralph the Movie Maker. I'm Axe for myichi and joined by another Brit Bonger this time.

Introduces of Tro. How come you get to say that? It is me the right opinion. It is me the right opinion. And I guess that's me, yeah. I don't really know how else to introduce myself. I only had that written down. What do you do?

Yeah, sorry, guys. It's the British episode. I assume you make right-leaning content. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's all I make. Big right-wing political propaganda. Yeah, British Tucker Carlson basic. I make a long form video essays on YouTube issues, I suppose.

Sometimes things, like sometimes things a bit greater than that. Internet affairs in general, but mostly focused on YouTube, I'd say. Yeah. You'd call Mr. Avocado as a YouTube issue? Yeah, yeah. I'd say he's mostly a YouTube issue. But I suppose I do analyze some of the more. cultural elements of it.

Yeah. But yeah, yeah. It primarily stems from YouTube, but obviously this only exists because of YouTube and such behavior would probably exist because of YouTube and this behavior would probably exist in other terms if we had other platforms that facilitated that behavior. Okay. So for anybody listening at home, the right opinion also goes by James and Tro.

So TRO or Trovers saves the universe is a game that came out. But anyway, we're just going to be, we're going to, we're going to interchange between all three of those just so you get really confused, just letting you know. So we're all talking about one person if any of those three names are used. I've got some questions for you, Trow. Okay. Is this an interrogation?

Yes. It's a deposition. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. You didn't do whatever it is, I didn't. You sound guilty already. I haven't even asked you anything. What didn't you do?

No comment. Pleading the fifth? I am pleading for, see, on... But you're British. Yeah, but I'm in America right now. It's July, July the 4th, independent. I'm being patriotic. Yeah, exactly.

I'm pleading the fifth. I'm using my rights. My Miranda rights. Okay. That's not how they work, I don't think, but I don't care. What's your favorite movie? Hot Fuzz. That was the easiest anyone's ever answered that question.

It seems like an easy question, but... There's normally a lot of... No, it is kind of a difficult question. I get that, but I like the swiftness to that response. Yeah. Yeah, well, I just, I get asked it so much. And I'm just not considering changing it any time soon. I've watched that film endless times.

Cool. And I love it still. That's a good choice. That's, uh, I'm right there with you. Yeah. His films are endlessly rewatchable. What's your, uh, what's your runner up? Let me stump you a little.

Now, that's a bit more tricky. I probably maybe go, uh, the Grand Budapest Hotel. Okay. Really? Wow. Okay. That's a little more recent. Yeah.

That's a great movie. Yeah. Yeah, I do my favorite. Yeah. I'm curious, one thing that sort of strikes me about your YouTube channel is kind of the presentation where you have a bunch of different editors per video. And that's always been kind of fascinating to me. So I guess my question is, can you describe exactly how you organize that and how much control

or leeway you have over your editors? if that's something you're comfortable answering. I'm just curious about the creative process there. Yeah, yeah, sure. So it starts off pretty singular. I research mostly almost all the time. I sometimes get a couple people to help if I feel like it's a really difficult subject. But most of the time I try and keep research to myself,

I tend to write it, then I record it, and then I hand it off to a friend normally who edits the audio down. and then what we have is we have parts. So when I write it out, I split it into parts. Normally, it's around two pages per part. And so what I tend to do with that is I gauge how many parts I have. And I then announce in a Discord server that we have so much. parts and we're going to we need so many editors.

And then I try and organize it in a way that suits people. We regards to editing, yeah, it's quite chaotic with so may people. We have a guide of things that we like people to do, but generally we try and give it some creative freedom. I think the charm of having different people edit it is that people get to integrate their own personal styles. And therefore, I don't want to kind of take away that identity from them. But there are obviously things that I do need to see up on the screen, things that help the viewer if they are actually watching the video. A lot of people just listen to the audio most of the time

I find. And I've even had some people ask if I can do it on Spotify, which I've considered, but for the moment, I'm just focusing on YouTube. And normally we have a deadline. So, weeks, two and a half weeks. And we try and get it in by then. But obviously with so many people, you're bound to get a couple delays, unforeseen circumstances, things happening. And that can delay it a bit. And we tend to get hit by a fair few delays, honestly, which has been one of the issues

recently. So with the latest video that I'm trying to release, we got delayed because of a couple guest parts that were taking their time, then some more information came out about the situation. There were new developments. So I had to account for that in the video. And therefore, we took a bit longer to add that. Then we had a sponsor segment, which I'm really pleased about. I'm happy I got a sponsor. But because I want to do the sponsor justice, we've taken our time with that one as well. And so in the end, this video that was meant to be out, early 2022. We're now pushing into the latter half, which isn't ideal, but I'm also very

fortunate that I have people who are very patient and are willing to wait for my content. Yeah, for a longer form effort content especially. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I'm very, very grateful for that because honestly, I haven't been hitting as many deadlines as I've wanted to lately. In a perfect world, I'd probably be getting one video out a month, but it's a very imperfect world currently, and that has had some knock on effects. Right. Yeah, it's such a standard now to, like, use editors on YouTube. It's like something I've grappled with, like, wanting to experiment with that route.

You've talked about it before as well, Adam, like, the creative, it's such a process of, like, sacrificing that section of the creative expression, because that is where so many jokes are made and founded to me. I think it's... The problem is with this is that it's about your appeal as a creator. And if your appeal can come from your editing, there are some fantastic commentary YouTube's out there who edit these things themselves.

And part of their appeal is they're editing. I hate everything. You have a very distinct style. And when people watch your channel and people see like a clip, for example, they can tell that's an I Hate Everything video. And that's a real draw for a lot of people. Another commentary YouTuber I think edits everything themselves, though I might be wrong. M. Plemann, brilliant editor.

And his stuff, it looks fantastic. And it wouldn't be the same without his personal style of editing. And those sorts of creators are really important on YouTube. It's not necessary for every creator to have their own personal editing style. But I think it does help certain YouTubers set themselves apart from the rest of the crowd. Ralph, for Alex, did you have any questions for Trow? Before we move on to some movie news? No.

I guess I could just mention, since we're talking about editing, I recently uploaded something that was just like an edited clip from the film Morbius. It wasn't me talking. There's no talking for me at all, which is not common for my channel. and the video got a lot of views, which made me think, like, okay, maybe just my editing skills are, like, enough to, you know, propel my channel. Like, that's just a way, like, I've been thinking,

like kind of like a crowd cat, which is a YouTuber. Yes, of course. That's his name or what. Yeah. That's a YouTuber I've mentioned before that I look up to. So, yeah, just kind of piggybacking off what you're saying. It's not really question. I just wanted to add to that.

I released quite a few shit posts. Yeah, you're walking dead one with the lady going, Yeah, yeah. A classic. That's an edited. Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah. Sure.

So we all have like those, I guess. Alex. Alex, are you awake? Yeah, just about. What about taking it back to movies? Yeah. No, for those listening, just for scheduling stuff where I'm recording like,

we started at midnight for me. So if I sound a bit airy, that's why. But to bring it back to movies more so, any standouts from this year, aside from men, which we'll talk about shortly. Oh, yeah. Anything you've seen this I stood out to? Yeah. I know this is probably going to be a very cliche answer at this point, but everything everywhere all at once was my standout movie for this year so far.

It's just so unique. It's so exciting. And it's just a great movie. And so many films these days feel like they come from a playbook of how to. to make a movie. And that one just doesn't. It feels very fresh. And that's what I really appreciate about that.

Because I'm always going to get something out of a film like that. I was speaking to actually someone yesterday about this, A24 as a studio, they're just putting out a lot of good films. One that I'm not so keen on, but we'll get to that in a moment. But last year, I think the best film I saw in the cinemas was. the Green Knight. Yeah, I love that film. That's such a good film.

And it's just, I was so glad I got to see it in the cinema. I know it went straight to prime in a lot of places, but I got to this one cinema in Canada that was showing it. And I'm so glad that I got to see it in the cinema because it just looked so fantastic. So good to see it on the big screen. Where in Canada were you? I was in Vancouver. Oh, shit.

Well, that's where I am. Oh, I didn't realize. actually. Oh, next time I'm in Vancouver. Maybe we saw the same screening and we didn't even know. Yeah. Well, there was, there was only one other person in the screening and they walked out halfway through.

That was me. I'm just kidding. Oh, damn. You really hated it. Yeah. I never, I haven't finished a single movie actually. My entire channel is, uh, just guessing. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought, I got that impression from watching your videos. Yeah. I know it. Yeah. There it is folks.

The proof. We got it. I got myself. Clip that. Yeah. Oh, no. So there's a, there's a movie news thing. Uh, I don't know.

I've only seen this on Twitter. It's weird calling it news, but, um. I've got a BBC News article here. Oh, God. Now it's real. Yeah. Go for it. It's real.

Four hours ago posted on BBC News. minions well it's just minions cinemas ban teens in suits over hashtag gentle minions trend yeah yeah they banned yeah they know that they did okay I just thought that that people were showing up

ironically too I thought it was like oh it was fun when we did this to Morbius let's do it to minions like that's all I've not seen like multiple cinemas have been trashed why oh what oh I didn't know that part I just saw pictures of people in tuxitos or sorry not It was like dred shirts and stuff. No, there are a few, like, images of the aftermath of these, these minions.

All right. You have that article? Do you show photos? I'll send you the article. I saw a tweet about them banning people, but I didn't realize that cinemas have been trashed. Yeah, what the fuck? Okay.

Yeah, this one obviously got under my skin right away. Like, the morbius one was like funny inherently to me, you know? So this is trying to capture that same. lightning in a bottle. It's not the same. It's minions, god damn it. Yeah. No one saw that movie either. People actually saw minions. Yeah. I would, okay. Yeah. This one's pretty explainable here. It's because as you were saying, James, about YouTube and how it facilitates and encourages like a kind of behavior, I would argue, you know, I don't own TikTok, but I would argue, based on what I know about

TikTok, it facilitates some pretty bad behavior. Because there's just a bunch of shit that Oh, definitely. Yes. That is not allowed on any other website, but they just allow it. Like, people are constantly doxing each other on TikTok. Like, I know that much. I mean, I haven't used TikTok enough, honestly. I don't have it installed at all.

I don't engage in that sort of thing. I know a lot of people who do use TikTok, but for me, I think it's just too short. Like, I tend to prefer things like videos that are longer. You don't say. My attention span isn't. Yeah, my attention, yeah, yeah. Yeah. My attention span isn't quite at that point yet where I can appreciate TikToks.

I see some good ones on my Twitter occasionally. But that's the thing. Yeah, it's just everywhere. It's on Instagram. Like, you just re-upload TikToks. That's just content. Yeah. I wind up seeing TikToks on other websites that re-host TikTok.

Like, so on Reddit, if you go on the subreddit, like, I'm a total piece of shit. There will always be TikToks from just some asshole being like, oh, it's so funny that I slapped this random person. in public. Like, so yeah, that's why I'm not surprised by this turning into a, hey, let's trash theaters because it'll get views because children, like, 12-year-olds will giggle at this being like, ha, ha, ha, that was funny. Like, okay, yeah, like, maybe you shouldn't allow that on your website.

Maybe you should discourage that. An odd thing, too, is that the minions TikTok, the official minions TikTok kind of encouraged this behavior, or at least, like, kind of promoted the term gentle minions. So I'm going to read from the official minions TikTok. They said, fraud, speed, you gentle minions. Yeah, it's like marketing, but like, they kind of coined the term. If they didn't coin the term, at least they kind of, you know, popularized it with maybe a certain audience, at least. Maybe not created it, but definitely popularized it.

I mean, I think it's obviously important to take into account that a large majority of people, you know, gentle minion up are probably being respectful to the cinema. It's just, unfortunately, when you have such a large movement, you know, you're always going to get some people who act out in the in the name of some greater trend probably for attention and I think the thing is that this probably started with noble, noble intent as a as a as a funny joke where you turn up in suits and watch something that's clearly not necessarily designed for the dignified crowd and then it's kind of spiraled a little with how popular it's become. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know people were trashing the theater. Me marketing, man. If you have any images of that, send it to me. Yeah, yeah. I'm curious about that. That's happened.

Like, doing that, showing up in suits. I guess I understand, but, you know. That's very interesting. Yeah, very interesting. I've never seen something like that since Morbius. But no one saw Morbius. And no one trashed the theater for Morbius. No, because no one saw it.

Yeah, because no one was there in the theater. Yeah, I'm just reading the article. And I think also it's kind of like people think that this sort of trend is kind of ruining the experience for like younger audiences, which is what, who the film is aimed at. And I suppose that's a valid concern as well because what they're saying is they've had to, you know, give out a load of refunds to parents probably. Yeah, a bunch of preteens being like rowdy or whatever. Yeah, they're probably annoyed that they're, they're probably annoyed that they're losing.

it's in money over this, even though it's a trend that's bringing people to the cinema, it's also clearly driving some people away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. It's a good way of seeing it.

Yeah. Are we the boomers now? Oh, yeah. Possibly. Yeah. Because these are all like, these are like kids who like grew up with the original despicable me's, right? So now they're like, they're a bit older.

A part of the hashtag is like, oh, the five years. your weight, it's finally over. So, like, if you were, like, a 10-year-old, now you're, like, 15, you can get your posh suit out and go see minions, ironically. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't like it. You know what? I'd like, it's so weird, because I, like, me and Scoot, we swear, that there was already a Minions Rise of Gru movie, like, five years ago.

Just, it seemed like a movie that had already been out. I haven't seen any of them. But it was just like, didn't they already do that title? Like, I don't know. I think they, this film was like nearly done or something. But then COVID happened. Oh, maybe there were ads for it. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. It's been advertised for ages. Yeah, he's pushed back a long time. Okay. Oh, I remember tweeting about that I couldn't wait to see it years ago. Oh. But they got pushed back. Did you start this TikTok trend, Ralph?

Yeah, it was me. Okay. I'm sorry. Uh, it'd be fun to address in a video. Maybe. You're going to need to issue an apology on TikTok. Yeah. I'm so sorry, TikTok.

Yeah. Sorry, TikTok. Viewers of TikTok. But people just be praising mediocre illumination movies just nonstop. Just because like every positive I've seen for this new one is like, like, it's better than the other minions movie. Oh, wow, crazy. The bar could not be lower. Yeah, well, on Letterbox, it has like, three.

thousands of five-star reviews way more so than like anything else. You can you see it like on the ratings and I just kept thinking bots. Letterbox is where the zoomers hang out. Or maybe little kids rating at five stars. But yeah. Also bots. Yeah, maybe a little. Maybe, maybe.

Maybe. Maybe. But I mean, it would be a bold thing to do. I mean, I can know why people would use bots to inflate a lot of things, but letterbox ratings. I don't know about that one. Why not? Maybe we're still a bit too niche.

People use the ratings on websites influence. Yeah. More and more people every day check out the ratings on websites before seeing the film. That's true. People look at the Rotten Tomatoes, you know. If I was a marketer, I'd probably focus on like Rotten Tomatoes or IMDB before I focus on letterboxed. Yeah, well, if more young people use letterboxed and this is a young people movie. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

I mean, this is a big studio. You kind of, like, they have a lot of money, like a lot of resources. you know, so I don't put anything kind of past them. It's not like they can't afford to do that. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think my hunch personally is that it's likely a meme thing. One of my friends

also gave it five stars and said, Masterpiece can't even describe this cinema, gripping storyline with amazing characters such as Kevin. I have never seen character development executed so perfectly. Gru was a complex, well-flourished, perfectly crafted character too. I particularly enjoyed the line. Okay, fine. I give in. Have never heard

such exquisite dialogue in my life. There was a lot of butts thought that was a low key a bit suss, but don't let that put you off a hundred out of ten. This deserves an Oscar for its fantastic line deliveries and outstanding storyline. Please watch this. I'm begging you. I am so not entertained by any of this minions ironic thing. I'm like it is so lame. Ironic enjoyment, yeah. As if they needed more minions money. The Morbius one was funnier. Morbius was tolerable and it came with a cool catchphrase. That was actually funny. Yeah.

It was also kind of mocking Sony. Morbius was a film that was never going to be like a huge movie anyway and people propelled it artificially. This is a movie that was always going to be a big movie because babies love minions. And also, grandmas because they want babies to love them. That's true. That added to the humor of the Morbius thing too, and they thought the memes were a way to make more money and it just backfired. But this is just...

Yeah, a movie that, like, flopped and then goes back into theaters and flops again. Like, yeah, there's legs on that meme. This minions shit, it's just like, okay, all right. Like, it's so surface level. What are you going to do with it? So boring. At least... Yeah.

At least wait until the film has lost, like, the hype. and then make a meme out of it like people did with Morbius. Like, you don't want to add more hype to an already massive franchise. I don't know, yeah. That's probably going to get five more films out of this. Yeah. And they basically have a free license to be even lazier. That's what concerns me.

They're going to focus so much on marketing and memes now from here on out and less on the actual quality of the film. And that's what always concerns me. Yeah. No, because people have accepted. the mediocrisy, they're fine with it. They're fine with it being nothing. I hate that reactionary stuff.

Like, it's like how I hate on, like, The Rise of Skywalker, how it was like reactionary to Twitter and like Reddit complaints of, like, The Last Jedi. It's like, it's like that. It's like that to me. It's just like, let's look at the internet and see what they think. Like, I hate that. It's just like write a good film or something, like write good jokes. How hard is it to make a Minions movie?

True. Come on. The response to this movie felt like a bit more appropriate on something like the emoji movie because that's something that as soon as that was even announced it was like oh come on really it was like representative of like an obnoxious new trend of like trying to capitalize on internet trends in your films and like what do you do like what is the concept for that movie like why did sony green list green like jump in the shock whereas like this is just a sequel to an overwhelmingly successful franchise that's found everywhere and let's be honest half of the kids doing this ironically

are probably enjoying the movie anyway like it's not really ironically for half of them. No. I'm like, come on. Yeah. Yeah. People fucking love many. Why do you think it's made so much money already?

Like, people love this shit. True. True. Yeah, that's probably accurate. Yeah. Yeah, it's for kids. It's harmless fun. Until you trash the theater.

Then it is harmless, harmful bad. It was good like counter programming to release the black phone like the same weekend. Did you watch it? Yeah, I've seen the black phone. I did. I really liked it. Oh, you really liked it. I liked it. Oh, cool. Is it worth saying?

Um, you should. It's a good horror movie. Okay. It seems like something I might be very annoyed by. You know what that means, that? It's a good horror movie, I feel. Oh, you mean good for a horror movie? Good scares. It's good for a horror movie. I actually really liked it. I like the, um, like the small scale of it. I like the kids. It was almost like it.

Yeah, Stephen King's it. But almost kind of better in my opinion. I agree. I watched it twice. The film, anyway. Mm-hmm. Oh, really? You've watched the black phone twice. Yeah, one time with my friends, second time. Yeah, second time on a date.

But I didn't tell my date that I watched it once before because I wanted to make myself look braver. Oh. Yeah, thank you. Starting out your relationship on lies. That's pretty normal. What? Pretty common. All right.

I'm going to write down the black phone. Yeah, write that down. I might watch it this week or something if I have the time. Okay. Yeah, it's pretty good. Okay, we'll see. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed Ethan Hawke as well.

I like Ethan. The writing of it. Yeah. We all watched a movie called men. How... Four men watch men. How does everyone here like men? What do you think about men?

That's like the joke of like this movie. Like, whatever you say, did you like, did you like men or I like, do you like men? That's like, it's so many times. Yeah, exactly. It's like, I liked men. I like men. How much do you like men? I like the movie men.

It's the movie men by Alex Carlin, yes, but it is funny. I like the movie men. Is this, is this with a capital M? I don't know. Oh, well, with a small M generally, yes, I quite like men. Mm-hmm. With a capital M, I don't like men. Oh, shit.

What'd you think? I already discussed this with Alex, so. But yeah, no, I really. So I saw your rating. Yeah, I really didn't like it. Yeah, he saw my rating on that box. This will be a fun conversation, though. Yeah.

I mean, I don't really know exactly where to start. I still haven't completely collected my thoughts on it. I just really didn't like the movie. I just came away with very little from it. and even understanding other people who did like its perspective, I still really, like, just took very little from it. And I just, I really didn't like, I think the storyline, I was probably the bit that I hated the most.

Stylistically, I think it's well made. And I think people who, who kind of enjoy that sort of stuff are going to get something from it. For me, I was like, the first half an hour, I was like, yeah, I enjoyed the style here. And then my brain kind of, like, starts going, okay, what more is there, what more is there. And for me, that's where it kind of ended. And I just didn't get anything more from it personally. Though I do understand that some people did.

Spoiler discussion, by the way, we can spoil it. Yeah. I just want to ask you, yeah, I'm not trying to attack you or anything. Are you a fan of Alex Garland at all? Because I am. I really enjoy his films. And that's probably why I like this. Yeah. I want to watch Annihilation. I've watched X. Makina and I liked that one as well. And I've still yet to watch devs, which I've heard good things about, too. So I'm, I'm not a fan of Alex Garland, but I watched obviously X. McAner, and I like that. And I want to watch the other two as well. I really like the look of annihilation. That looks like the sort of thing that is right on my street. Yeah. I'm shocked people like his movies, honestly. I have heard that there's a lot of people that liked Alex Garland's previous two films, but didn't like this one as much. There's a lot of people

I've heard that are calling this like his worst film. I personally connected with this one more than his other two, which I know is like a hot take, but, yeah. Well, there's a few elements I like in it too, like that I think you'd like Adam, like Jessica Buckley's, is that her name? Oh, Jesse Buckley? Jesse Buckley. Jesse Buckley, I thought she was really great.

Oh, she's awesome. Yeah, I really caught. Yeah, everyone's great. And she's in every, I'm thinking of vending things. as well. Yes, yes. Yeah, so she was really great. And also the guy who played all the different men, which is kind of the, you know, I kind of picked up on that in the trailer that it was all the same actor. So sadly, that was kind of like ruined for me, I guess, but also not ruined for me because it didn't watch trailers for movies that I know I'm going to see. So I, it didn't really

matter for me personally. Like, it actually added something. I was looking for it and trying to figure out the film. And, you know, there's a lot about it that was like, um, I feel interpretive and kind of, you know, it's a very weird movie. And that's why I think, like, that's why I said, I don't, sometimes I don't know why people like Alex Garland films, because they're so out there. They're so weird. And I'm just shocked that, like, people like them as much as they do because they're very, like, challenging and different, like, you know, they're, they're kind of trying to piss you off in times. I think this is his weirdest and most challenging. And that's why, yeah, like, that's why this is one is not as well received is because it doesn't.

is sort of past that threshold for too many people. Like the end of annihilation does get weird. It kind of reminds me of mother or I want to draw comparisons to that film because that's that same kind of reaction where people didn't really like it at first. Really, this was making me think of Antichrist actually. That as well. That is actually a fairly good. Yeah, just as far as like the symbolism is concerned, like the religious themes.

Yeah, there's a lot to kind of chew on and taking like an isolated set. and kind of exploring someone's inner trauma. I just meant more like the reaction to it. Like when mother first came out, there was such like a strong push against it. Oh, the reaction to this is hilarious. Because I like, I watched the movie, had a great time. I enjoyed it and felt like, oh, there's like a lot to like unpack here.

And then started reading about like the responses. And I guess because as the title suggests, it's kind of about like gender. What? The relationships between different genders. So, of course, the discourse around this movie is, like, man, it's bad. It is, like, one of the most toxic subjects you can have a conversation on the internet, you know? I didn't, I didn't, yeah, I didn't really have a problem, actually, with the whole gender discourse. I didn't enjoy how it dealt with the trauma, honestly, personally.

but I think I think like you you pointed out Alex to me that basically you know their representation of like different forms of toxic masculinity and I do I do perceive that yeah and I think that's a fair interpretation I personally though I just didn't connect with the trauma and as a person who does have like I guess some degree of trauma in that area I kind of just felt like it was I thought it was a bit exploitive from my perspective and And it's a really difficult subject to kind of pull off without being exploitive in a way. But at the same time, I think that's one thing that made me very uncomfortable watching the film. Like, there were just certain things that was so bizarre that was trying to be rooted back to the trauma. And I was just like, I don't really think this is like a good way to handle a subject. You think the absurdism didn't work for you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And maybe it's because like...

Like the whole face is on the same. Exactly. it's made because it's sorry because it's like a bit too like there are parts of it that are very real to me and then it just swings in with the absurdism and that that didn't blend in my mind properly yeah i have the i have the opposite opinion is uh like i i just i feel like if it took a more straightforward approach then it i would have probably considered it to be like lame and exploitative and you know like when you're tackling a serious subject matter like this i feel like if it played it straight. Like there's so much more opportunity for it to be just like kind of

cheesy and dumb. When it comes to like Alex Garland's filmography, there are some criticisms that I have with his previous two films that I don't really have in this film. And that's because it takes a more absurdist approach. It's because of it's absurdism that you know, you're clearly not supposed to be taking the entire thing super seriously. super straightforward. So it has a lot more leeway in my perspective as to what it can do and what it can get away with. I'm a really big fan of kind of non-literal, intentionally absurdist films. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't necessarily have a problem with like absurdity on principle and there are absurdist films that I've quite enjoyed. I guess it's more just how I tackle the subject in question.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with playing like the subject of trauma straight if you can do it respectfully. And there's probably, and once again, I can't think of any examples that come to mind immediately, but there probably are examples of films that blend absurdist and trauma quite well. Well, from my perspective, if you take into account that this one doesn't do it well, which obviously you disagree with, and I understand that. But for me, this one isn't one that's done it well, and I just kind of felt more and more comfortable as it got more and more absurd because I just didn't think it had, I guess, rooted itself in a tangible, I guess, background of trauma to really build off it as elaborately as it did. Obviously, there are the flashbacks, but it's a

very small part. And I think in a way, it was trying to grow something too big from something extremely small. Would you feel better about this film if it was detached from the more serious elements it's trying to tackle. Like if you had, if you had the same sort of narrative or style with its like absurdist approach or like, you know, same visuals, same, you know, perhaps even same concept, but it didn't have the underlying message or themes where it's trying to tackle something serious. How do you think you'd feel about that? Yeah, maybe, maybe I would have been a bit less, I guess, frustrated by it. Because I think maybe in a way, it is a really ambitious film and what it tries to pull off.

And for me, obviously, it didn't pull it off. And I think that's probably what annoyed me more about it. If it had just gone for something, maybe a bit more just absurdist without the sort of very serious underlying subjects, I wouldn't have minded as much. I can't really say, honestly, it's hard to visualize it in your head. And I still kind of have trouble, like, completely grasping my feelings about it. All I know, really, is that I didn't like it. and I know that there are some good arguments for why people have liked it,

but I'm just not completely connecting with them. Sure. Yeah, when you say it makes you uncomfortable, what do you mean by that? Because it made me uncomfortable, too, but I kind of, that's what I'm kind of looking for from a film like this. Yeah, yeah, I knew that was going to come back.

I knew, yeah, I knew when I said that I was, yeah, I know that some films are designed to make people feel uncomfortable, and there are some great films the one that I always think of when I think of a film that made me feel really uncomfortable but I really enjoyed it was the lighthouse and so I know there is like an element of discomfort that can also feel good

but by this, by the end of this one I think maybe frustration was more what I was feeling and I was just like, why the fuck? And I was just annoyed, annoyed and frustrated is probably better. I guess uncomfortable, I mean, I was uncomfortable, but there's like, I guess there's different,

like aspects of discomfort and this one wasn't like sort of a sort of tension it didn't have any tension to me by the end my mind was just like you know I was clocking out because I just couldn't couldn't deal with it in the way that it clearly wanted me to yeah I wasn't necessarily uh feeling tension in the sense that I was like concerned at the you know about the main character in those instances like if in terms of the elements that are like a straightforward horror movie of like oh no like is is he gonna get her or like oh he's like he disappeared in that one spot like i'm not really affected by those um what i just i exactly agree with you though adam when you said it's a straightforward horror film i completely agree with you like that's kind of why i like that's what i liked about it does yeah there are elements more straightforward to me they're definitely well like the kind of one location which is like a it's almost a horror trope at this point like mother lighthouse these movies exorcists most many other horror films

A house of the devil Yeah like one house Kind of a woman being stalked or whatever But the way the film Plays with horror and uses it as a vehicle To tell this like story about gender Like you're saying Almost like get out

How that's about like race Like I think it was really effective And disturbing for me anyway I think it's effective horror film Oh that's fair enough Yeah I wouldn't say that like The statements are profound Or anything

And I would need to watch it a second time. I think it's communicated effectively. To, yeah, yeah. I like that, I like when films force you to at least think about and engage with its themes and subject matter. And I feel like absurdism is a way that really helps me to do that. So, yeah. No, I'm with you. No, I think what you said about the themes, though, it has obvious themes, but it's the, it's the subtext I find to be more complex.

Like, as you were alluding to, Trot, with the, just the whole decision to have all the men have the same face and kind of how that abstracts and how they're able to explore kind of broader ideas with that idea, be it the bishop, be it the policeman. And then all the other ideas that come through with like the other woman she interacts with, the other women she interacts with in the film. They're allowed their own identity. and all the religious symbolism, the fertility god side of it and the green man and the like apple falling far from the tree stuff. Wow, the Adam and Eve. Like comparisons.

Yeah, Adam and Eve imagery. There's just a lot to chew on. I understand that. I guess for me, it's just like I just didn't find the statements of the film. And you obviously just mentioned it now, Adam. But I just personally didn't find. the statements of the film compelling enough to engage with. And I think that's probably what I was more interested in.

If you're looking away from that and you're not necessarily as concerned about that, then probably, yeah, you're probably going to get a bit more out of this film. For me, it was just like, I guess my problem was, I mean, the character, I mean, Jesse Buckley does give a great performance and I can't deny that. But I just didn't, her character is basically all we know about her character is that she, was traumatized. And for a film that that already isn't working with much,

to have a character completely based on that just did not, I guess, resonate with me, especially in how it subsequently dealt with it. I would say there's a lot more to her character. Yeah? I would say, because we, in those flashbacks, when we see, when it reveals, like, how she was interacting with, you know,

her deceased husband or, I forget if it was husband or boyfriend. it was husband because there was a divorce. I think it was husband because there was a divorce. It's not just, you know, she was traumatized and then, you know, it, it allows us to see how she was interacting with him. And I think that the added information of how that argument took place and how you can see how she could place blame on herself. Yeah. And how she was really forced to in a situation where, like, you know, she eventually just had to say, like, okay, well, you're threatening suicide.

Like, I, what am I supposed to do? Like, I can't do anything. Like, you're going to have to kill you. There's something like that. And, like, she was put in a situation where that was just unavoidable. Like, I just, I really, I really connect with that. And I really am able to think about a lot in terms of, like, what might be going through her mind, not only in that situation, but over the course of the rest of the,

the film because of that situation. I think that, yeah, in terms of like a character study intellectually, I don't think that she's just defined by being a victim. Yeah, but she also doesn't know if he intentionally killed himself or not. That's like part of it where she doesn't know if he slipped off the top. That's still like part of the trauma, right? She's at least telling herself a story and, you know, she's trying to believe one thing or at least the possibility of one thing. Right. That's like, yeah, those dreams are like her interpretation of it almost. It's, yeah, it's still part of the trauma, though, all those interactions, the clear manipulation, the physical abuse, it's all, it's all bundled into the trauma idea. And I agree that it does

make the whole situation in how she processes it more complex. But I also didn't feel like it cross-referenced enough to the then present situations well enough for me to make a clear narrative that was fully tangible to me. That's all good. So we're going to need to, just because this is a bit of a shorter episode, because we started recording late, we're going to need to move on to the next film pretty soon. I just wanted to get out a few things that I appreciated about the movie before we do that. I think that this is Alex Garland's best-looking film so far.

There's a lot of great visuals in his films, but... Color especially. The color grading in this film. The visual effects are fantastic. Oh, yeah. I saw people shitting on like the face stuff or whatever, like on the, especially the kid. Like, that kind of looks kind of weird. But like the end of this film, the last 10 minutes, that's absolutely incredible visual effects work.

The thing is with that kid looking weird, um, that the fact that this is like an Intentionally absurdist film where you're not supposed to take everything literally I just was like okay, yeah like it doesn't sure I didn't consider that to be like A mistake on the part of the film I'd consider that to be like oh that's a weird Visual the uncanny valley sort of you know that it adds to the film in that sense because this is a heightened Non-reality you know so that's that's how I viewed it I've only seen the film once I took it as a straightforward horror film And so I totally understand what you're saying the fact that it was just like I love I love I love the visuals of the ending.

Yeah. Because they're just so, they're so well done. Yeah. The lighting and the, it's just so well done at the ending of this film. And it is really disturbing and original. There's a lot of computer generated imagery in this film that I can tell by looking at it, that it is computer generated imagery. And at the same time, it doesn't take me out of the realism of the film.

It's like a really great combined CG and practical effects. A lot of the gore is like really well done. Yeah, that transformation. weird body horror thing is just fucking awesome. I loved that. Yeah, that was really great. And even during that scene, like, I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't in a position where I was like, oh, wow, I'm like super scared.

And I wasn't like, oh, wow, I'm taking this straightforward and seriously. I was just kind of like, this is awesome. Like, you never see shit like this. You're showing me something unique. I was like, of course this is going to disturb. I already knew that this was kind of like mixed reviews before going into it. But I was like, hell yeah, of course people are going to get upset by this. like, I was just like, I think I might have started clapping. I don't know. I felt like it for

sure. Really? And it keeps going. It goes on for so long. It's like minutes. Oh, I love it. Oh, it's so over the top. The character gets bored of it. She like, she just goes and sits down after like the third or fourth birth. It's awesome. Yeah, I love how gratuitous and over the top it is for a movie that feels so reserved for much of it too. It's a great payoff. Yeah. Like how Suspira pays off. with the really bloody like finale or whatever. Like that's a great way to end a horror movie. I love the performances. Every single performance is fantastic.

We already talked about that. Rory Kinnear, fantastic job. Playing many different characters, huge range. Yeah. Awesome. And then the music is super dope as well. I can remember both licensed and the music in the film. I can remember those tracks right now after only having seen it once.

I remember exactly how they are. It's memorable. After that tunnel scene. It's effective in not only on its own, but how it's used in the film, how it's incorporated in the film. Yeah, really connected with it. Anything else anyone wants to add? I know I just kind of like machine gunned out a bunch of points just for the time.

That's all good. I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Yeah. I mean, I think production-wise, it's well made. And although I personally didn't enjoy the ending, I wasn't quite as enthusiastic as yourself. I can appreciate, you know, that there are a lot of nice elements, like, visually, that have gone into the film, and I can appreciate that at its least. And halfway through the film, my friend who was watching it with a large group of people, he turned to me and goes,

they're all the same person. And so I don't think he watched the trailer either, fortunately, for him. Yeah. I kind of had a similar, like, when I saw it, my friend. I didn't know until after the movie. I knew, because I wasn't as familiar with the actor. And I knew, like, obviously, like, the kid was, like, a CG face thing. And I was like, oh, weird, interesting. I just didn't know it was all literally the same person. But that's really well done then. If you didn't even notice it, that's really well done. I'm just so glad they didn't feel the need to, like, try and explain it. Give it some, like, law reasoning, you know, like, delve into that kind of horrible. a movie where it's like...

Yeah. Just had a lot of ranges in acting. Yeah, just over-explaining everything. It trusts its audience to interpret, you know? Yeah. I really enjoyed it. And seeing so many people boil it down, they're just like men bad. Just doesn't seem...

Yeah. Doesn't seem fair to me. I don't think that... Well, yeah, it depends on what you want out of the movie. Like, that's a part of the movie. And if that's the part that matters and the other parts don't matter, then I could see, you know, that being, you know, superseding your perspective. But, yeah, every part.

considered for me. I fucking, I loved it. I connected with it. And I'm sad that this will probably not get a 4K Blu-ray release. It didn't seem like too successful. I don't know. So, I hope it does. I think it will. It has a cult file. It's on like digital right now. I don't even know if it's getting a physical release. I'm glad you guys liked it because, you know, it's such a weird movie. I don't know. I didn't know if you guys would like it or not or if you'd like react to it. Like in the same way. Yeah. But I clearly liked it. And I think it's like a really good. horror film just on its own. I feel like there is an audience that would kind of like this.

Although, yeah, yeah, there's definitely people who won't. I don't want to condescend. Like, I completely understand it. Yeah, you don't get like traditional plot payoffs or anything. Yeah. Yeah. Like the black phone, that's like, that's a great horror movie too. This is just something like, it almost uses horro like, like I said, as a vehicle to like explore these other things.

And, um. Yeah, I could understand why someone wouldn't like this, but this is really something kind of more at my alley. And like a director I really like Alex Garland at this point, anything he makes, I would watch at this point. Like, I would like anything he makes the trailer next time then. I won't. But yeah, this is really, he's basically like, at this point,

I'm like, yeah, I'll watch anything he makes. He's like one of those directors for me. He just makes great stuff. Yeah, I find all this project's interesting. And I'm giving this one. Probably an 8 out of 10. I said maybe 7 or 8 in my video, but like, I just, yeah, I think about it fondly. It's still memorable to me.

It hasn't aged in my brain. I'd like to see it again. So probably an 8, yeah. I'll update my MDB. Cool. What would you give it, Alex? Yeah, I actually watched it again today to refresh my memory. And, yeah, I think it's an 8 out of 10 for me, a 4-star.

It's an 8 out of 10 for me as well. It's a, it's a, it's a three out of ten for me. Good for you, man. Stay in your ground. I've been there. Good for you. Sounds like you have the wrong opinion. No.

No. Yeah, this is, this is not a movie up everyone's alley. It has a weird birth scene. It's not. Yeah, more than one. Yeah, it's, I liked it. Oh, yeah. I love.

challenging films, and this is the most challenging one that Alex Garland has made. I love bloody films and disturbing films, and this is like, and challenging films, too, but it's just everything. And science fiction. Yeah, there's some good stuff. All right, so there was a film recommendation from Trow. Yes. Would you like to introduce the film? This is a spoiler discussion.

Tell us what it is, maybe what it's about, and why you recommended it, and what you think about it, we'll share what we think. Yeah, it's a film from released, I think, in December 1994, kind of a bit of a Christmasy film, but not really mentioned too much in the film itself. It's called Nobody's Fool. It's a late period Paul Newman film. And it's basically about a small town guy trying to get his life together.

Well, at the start, he's not really trying to be honest. but gradually he reconnects with people in his life and you see the character growth and things start to turn around for him and it's hard to really say too much else obviously it is a spoiled discussion but there's no big spoiler really in the film it's it's just a film about a small town guy who uh who sorts his shit out and um that's basically, I don't really know what else to say.

It's definitely built on dialogue and obviously features Bruce Willis as well, Jessica Tandy, Philip Seymour Hoffman. And they all kind of play very distinct characters and kind of play off themselves throughout the movie. And I guess what I personally really enjoy about about the film, is that it takes it, it really knows what it's doing and it does it very well in my opinion. I love the interactions, the dialogue. There are some really good one-liners from it. And I just enjoy, I just really enjoy the interactions and the sort of feeling, sort of, I guess the hard to think of the word exactly.

But the atmosphere of the film, you don't really see it in many films. It's a very small town, but it's not just a small town. There's no big like adversaries. You know, one moment this guy, our lead, Paul Newman, is suing Bruce Willis. Obviously, that would be really cool if that happened. But obviously, it's in the film and they're characters. And the next moment, he's going to take a job for him. And he's calling him an asshole and all that and being pissed off.

But he still goes and does it. And they're at a poker table the same evening playing cards. And it's just a film that does those interactions so effortlessly and captures something so unique in a way. And it's not like a lot of films that I've seen where there has to be that sort of hostility. Even when there is like conflict, it's not played with necessarily hostility. It's played off very cleverly and in a very unique way. Underplayed, yeah. Because it's like a small town, like they all kind of know each other.

And that's kind of the impression I got. Yeah. You're right about like, just the writing. Like what you said about the writing is absolutely right. Like it feels, it strikes me as a very well-written film that the screenplay is the best thing about it. Like the dialogue is very strong. It is funny, like you said. And I just feel Bruce Willis in this film.

You know, I made a video on him like a few years ago and it got very popular. Like, I didn't want it to be popular or whatever. But like, I shit on him because of his more recent films. And like, I just wanted to say, like, I deeply respect him as an actor. I love him in so many films. And this is a film that went under my radar. And I'm glad I saw it because he is great in this film. Yeah, he is.

He took a pay cut, apparently, to show up in it. Yeah, yeah, because he loves, like, doing films like this. Like, he does what's Anderson movies, too. Like, he is that, he is an actor who respects, like, indie film. And, you know, there's just so many good, like, dialogue delivery in this movie. Like, there's a scene where he's. he's like looking at the snowblower and he says like, I had one just like that. Like it's like perfect.

Like, because he actually, yeah, it's actually his, right? It's so good. Yeah. And he's, he's great in the film. Yeah, you're totally right. And it's a very funny movie. It came out the same year as Pulp Fiction. Yeah, yeah.

Another indie classic. Yeah. Bruce, apparently Bruce Wittes actually like took a pay cut to appear in the film. And, and I think that that, I mean, I know it's rather trivial knowledge, but I thought that's just a really cool thing to talk. throughout there, though he did, you know, done, he's done a lot of shit in his time. You know, generally a real, like, appreciator of indie movies and we'll do what he can. That wasn't common at the time. No, not so. That wasn't very common. No. Not so. Especially for an actor of his

caliber. He's in A-lister. Like, he's in Die Hard. And, yeah, he respects those kinds of movies because he knows, yeah. Yeah, that's why I do like him as an actor. And yeah. Um, I love how Bruce Wallace is introduced in this film because I pay attention to, like, character like introductions just for my own films you know and and he has like a very low key introduction like he just shows up in a medium shot and I like that it's just like he's a character in the movie like here he is he's he's not Bruce Willis he's just he's his character and and that's like very effective in my opinion yeah yeah for really yeah I like so much about this movie for me it was mostly um Paul Newman as well carried it for me so that charm that kind of passed their

past their prime character, he's like an absent father, just kind of like, you know, reconnecting with the sun angle is like, it could be like kind of a, you know, you've seen that a million times cliche kind of beat, but what you said about it being like underplayed and so really gentle the way everything's displayed in like the, in the best way possible, it gives it kind of unique feeling. So when you do get the like conflict moments, like the scene towards the end with the, uh, the Phillips Seymour Hoffman police officer, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It adds a certain level of kind of realism and... He's always great.

Yeah. Seymour often. He's great in this movie, yeah. He's great in this movie, yeah. There is a lot of authenticity in this film, whether it comes to, as you mentioned, like, the performances, Paul Newman. Like, there's, like, moments, like, when he's, like, taking a sip out of his coffee cup and he just kind of, like, look, gives a glance with his eyes.

And it's, like, such an intentional thing to include in the film and to cut to. But it's so subtle. of a of a performance, but it feels so real at the same time. You can definitely feel like the, the energy of the characters. But also the environment. This is a, it's, it's great to see a, an American film that is using real snow also, you know, it's real cold weather. You can see their breath, et cetera. Yeah, like it, it, you can feel the atmosphere of the town. And there's something about it that just felt very nostalgic for me, despite never, having seen it.

Because, you know, I moved from a city where there was lots of snow. I used to smoke cigarettes back at that point in time, too. So just like, yeah, seeing characters smoking the snow and just the atmosphere. Just like, oh, it kind of like brought back, like, interesting memories and just, yeah. It was an interesting kind of like comfy movie when it comes to like the tone and the feel of it. Yeah, such a sleepy town. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think one of, they're like a, as you say, mostly a pretty easy film. There are a couple scenes that I think stand out quite well as well. There's the one scene where he goes to his ex-wife's Thanksgiving. It was Thanksgiving, I think, at that time. He went to X, ex-wife, Thanksgiving. And obviously there's this moment of just chaos. and it's captured so well and you immediately like really feel the chaos like setting in

it's really like quite suffocating in that moment and I think in a way you know where it does need to kind of step up and do things a bit a bit more bold I think it does do it as well it's just not too common in the film most of the time it's to go from one like his speech in the in the car about 50 minutes in

about his abusive father that was like really ramped up a little bit for me in terms of that kind of stuff because it is kind of yeah it's sleepy kind of slow it's kind of plotting along but it kind of reveals that it does have like a backbone of like yeah there's some serious drama going on here and it's like it deals with it really in a satisfying way that it doesn't kind of ruin what it's been building up to that point yeah yeah it's it's a it shows it gives like i guess the character a bit more a bit more depth and um oh yeah yeah and and and I think it's just, I think it's well, well represented.

I think, I think they capture that sort. I mean, Paul Newman, as you say, brilliant performance, captures that sort of conflict well, that internal conflict that he's still like dealing with that stuff, but he wants to kind of be there. And actually, the reason I chose this film was because I assume you guys have watched a lot of films in your time. And I was like, I don't want to go for something obvious. And so I went through the Oscars lists And I was going through the Oscars lists

And I got to like best actor And I was looking at the nominations And Paul Newman was Oscar nominated for this film And I'm like, I've never heard this film before And so I was like, let's put that on And I watched it and I enjoyed it I thought well this could be something we talk about And interestingly

I actually had to VPN to the US To even get a digital copy of it It was very hard to find Oh yeah I just watched it on HBO Max. Oh, really? You're lucky. Paul Newman's a, you know, incredible actor.

He's been a lot of great movies, color of money, Martin Scorsese. He's in cars, which is funny. Yes, as Doc Hudson. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, which I haven't seen. And, you know, Road to Perdition, Sam Mendez. I want to see Cool Hand Luke. I've heard that's good. Mm-hmm, cool hand Luke.

He's got a lot of good, the sting, yeah. I want to see more Paul Newman films than this was. He's great. I think this is the first actual Paul Newman film that I saw with him as the lead. So it's been a good introduction in a way because I'm, I really, one thing I absolutely adored was his voice. Such a good voice. And I just wanted him to talk more and more so I could hear more of his voice. Yeah.

Yeah, he really carried it for me. Even in, um, color of money, I don't really love that film that much, even the Scorsese. He's, he's like one of the best parts of it. He's definitely like a very, he has a presence. He's one of those guys. Yeah, one of those gravitas actors. Like a Tom Cruise. Uh-huh.

Where he carries like a scene, yeah. What I like most about this film is the dialogue and just the way that characters kind of interact with each other. There's something kind of like quippy about responses. All of the best lines in the film are essentially done in kind of like a call and response type way, if that's the correct term to use. But essentially somebody says something and then Paul Newman. just has like a, you know, kind of an entertaining answer to it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Or not just Paul Newman, but other characters would say that. So I wrote down a few that stuck out to me. When was the, you ever met anybody that's stubborn? Yeah, I have. And then just like the aggressive glance and just, yeah. It's weird.

The parrot one was good. Yeah. The dog one. I'm a member of Greenpeace. and I just help poison a dog. Well, for one thing, it wasn't poison. And for the other, you didn't help much. Stuff like that.

It's like, there's a good sense of how to respond to dialogue in this film. It's really, really well-written dialogue. That's actually funny. Yeah, it is actually funny. It's not like cringe or. Yeah, it got some genuine laughs out of me a couple times, which never happened. It is a funny movie. not even just Paul Newman

like there's a lot of funny scenes the scene where the kid gets his his dick crushed by the toilet lid that was so funny and like the woman's line there the mom

oh that was so funny oh yeah she was she was like my china ruined my china or something or some shit like that is so funny that whole scene there was that good line about the dog

like he's a lot like and then Paul Nehruhe goes oh yeah he's really really well hung or something like that. Yeah, it's just like funny dialogue. It's not even like the situation. Like the dialogue responses to it are like very funny. Like very, um,

natural and yeah, just smart. It's a very clever movie. Like that's what I mean like the, the writing. I really like the writing of it. Yeah. Yeah.

I just like you point out like the natural snow and all that. Yeah, like that's a good thing about the movie too. It does feel like you're actually watching like real people. Mm-hmm. And that's like a, that's a huge. like feet I think for a film.

Oh, yeah. To feel very natural. Yeah. And this film does. It's weird to me because I don't really connect with or find too memorable like the actual like the specific narrative of the film. Like it could be replaced with something else. It's more like scenes and dialogue. Yeah. It's like the atmosphere or the character of the town even, you know. like it's an interesting character movie and something that a lot of you know all of the best movies in my opinion do is they create uh memorable and unique characters and that's something that this film does every time someone's on screen it's like oh i'm i'm kind of interested in watching

this person um yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly how do we feel about how it shores uh school i fucking hated it. It was great. Yeah. At first, as it begins, as it opens the movie, it's kind of establishing a certain kind of tone. I was like, oh, I'm not really sure if this is what I'm looking for, it seemed kind of dated or that it was establishing something a bit more kind of corny, almost like the anti of what it actually manages to achieve with the dialogue and the writing. But it does tone down after the kind of introduction. Yeah, yeah, I guess it's over the top. I liked it, though. I thought it was a good score.

I don't have much... I like... I definitely liked towards the end. There's parts of it I thought were good. It sounds like Hobarton, yeah. Yeah. It's hard to not think of like, Lord of the Rings. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, there's some Lord of the Rings shit going on in there. But like less purposeful and memorable. I am never going to shit on Howard Shore. I love Howard Shore. Okay, then let me do it. I was listening to The Lord of Rings over the weekend, just like the soundtrack. Yeah. So maybe it's like my bias of Howard Shore. Yeah, I thought the score was good.

I love the Lord of the Rings soundtrack. I don't think that the score was necessarily bad separated from the film. It's not as bad as the score for Gile, right? Which was, oh, God, who was that? Fuck, another famous composer. I said the same thing about Gile. Wait, let me see if I can remember the name. Yeah, please do.

John Powell, got it. Yeah. Yeah, you're like, what the fuck? Yeah, that's a shame because he's talented, jump out. Yeah, it is like a what the fuck moment. I did not have a what the fuck moment with this movie. It was a good score. I have kind of the same, like, they're very different scores.

But in both of those, I think I even mentioned with Gile, like, separated from the film, it's not like a bad score. It's just the way that the film used it and how weird it was in the context of the scene. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The score of the film is overused, in my opinion, in this movie, but it's not a bad score. score. It's overused. It's over present. It's very kind of, uh, like, aggressive. It's overwhelming. By the end of the film, I was very irritated by. I was very irritated by it. I love the screenplay. It's more like how it was directed and yeah, like the use of music and the editing was like it wasn't, it wasn't terrible, but it felt more conventional to me.

Um, more like they're trying to make the film work unless like it was actually, um, it was overused. my opinion. It was trying to elevate certain scenes, I feel. Just so the tone seemed a bit off. The tone did seem a bit off. It was very kind of whimsical and like nostalgic. And I don't think that that necessarily is a bad thing to include in a film, even a film like this. I just wish it were more subtle. You could have had this, you have had music span over the exact same scenes for the same length of time in this film. And if it was just a little less aggressive and distracting, that I think it would have worked a bit better. It's not a bad score independently of the film, but it's just, it's, it's very distracting. It's like, it's, it's really aggressive. This is like a big

point for me too. Yeah, yeah. It's like, I think it's a big, not a problem. It's a big thing in like 80s and 90s movies and dramas. It's like this overused score. And I think I kind of notice it and like other movies from that kind of era. It started to get very repented. I don't want to hold it against, yeah, I don't want to hold it against this film. Yeah, it's just more like the studio kind of mindset of like, we need music here. That's how I feel like the producers like, we need music here. And it takes away, you know, I don't know. Who fucking knows.

I couldn't say why, yeah, it could have been the director's vision. I would have to see more films from him, you know? Maybe. Who knows? Who knows? It could be anybody's fault. It's just kind of a more dated element of it for me. I think he did Kramer versus Kramer.

And that's his other very, I guess, popular one. I'm learning a lot here because I really didn't actually notice the score that much. And I realized that I don't actually pay as much attention to the score as a lot of people. And I thought I would pay more attention to it, honestly.

But the last film that actually left me with any strong feelings about the score specifically was like Minari, I think. And I really liked the score on that one. but I haven't like I guess I don't factor it in that much which is why I guess I found this film a lot more easy to enjoy I think if I focused on the score I think probably a lot of what you're saying is quite valid thinking back on it but I don't tend to be I guess as affected by the score as other people yeah see for me very early on I noticed the score and like not just the opening credits I mean like there was some scenes later I'm like there doesn't need to be music here really. I was comfortable with it for like the first half of the movie and then over

time it was just it was just way too overwhelming. It's just that was the only part that felt dated to me because it is a good drama and it's very well written. Yeah, I agree with that. We should rescore it. Yeah. Trent Resner. Get on it.

Hell yeah. It would be like crazy guitar music here. Jared Leto. 30 seconds to Mars. more on Phillips Seymour Hoffman I just want to talk more about him I love how all of his performances are just so distinct Like in this movie

You don't even really recognize him When he first shows up And it's like I just love how distinct All of his performances are He clearly puts thought Or he clearly put thought Obviously because he's dead now He put thought into like

Making every character he played Like unique And like they have a different voice even Like the way he talks in this movie Is different than like The Master or any other film you've seen him in Boogie nights. Yeah.

He moves even. Like, Bumbles at the hood of his car and stuff. He's one of the greatest, like, character actors. Like, any movie with him in it, I will automatically like way more because he's just, he's such a great actor. Mm-hmm. I love his little rant, like, and he's just, like, kicked out.

And he's leagues goes, what is this country coming to? Yeah, yeah. He's just like a jerk cop. Like, but, you know, a great character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a good.

I miss him I miss him too likewise yeah yeah all of the elements of this film work pretty well for me could have had a better or more compelling narrative

and the music could have been better too but yeah nothing it's a very for me it was like largely inoffensive and comfy yeah just the music would be the one thing that I could see turning off some people. You know, I'm not turned off of the movie. I was able to get through it for sure. I like the score, but it is overused. Definitely, I would agree with that. Do you want to get

into ratings? Just to... Let's do it. I don't want to rush along. I would give it an eight. I really like the film. I thought it was good. I'll probably watch it again. I like a good drama, a character drama like this with like really good performances. Bruce Willis, like I said, you know, Bruce Willis and Paul Newman were enough. And then obviously you have a Philip Seymour Hoffman and, you know, it's a, it's Everybody was great on screen. I like this movie. They were fun to watch.

It's definitely a good film. Thank you for recommending it because it went under my radar. And I'm glad I saw it. Yeah, yeah. A lot of my friends have this on my watch list. And then I'm like, I'd be like, fuck you. I saw it and you didn't. Loser.

Loser. So thanks. Yeah, it was good. Eight out of ten. I liked it. Thank you. Yeah, I'm slightly under. I'd give it about a seven, three and a half star, seven out of ten.

All the same things. I just, I was carried along by that lead performance. I liked the subtle, like, character work and drama there. Scared of, like, the music at the beginning. Set in the tone a bit strange for me, but I'm glad, for me, it kind of called off after a while once it revealed, like, what it was actually doing and what it was good at. Yeah, just a unique, sleepy little film.

Mm-hmm. I give this a seven out of ten. Might be higher if the music wasn't so overwhelming. If you tweaked a couple little things about it, because there's a bunch of elements I really love. There's elements in this film that are as great as a lot of great movies that I give higher ratings than that. There's just a couple things that I would have liked to have adjust.

I could watch it again in the future. We'll see. I'm not going to watch it again right away. Just, yeah, 7 out of 10 for me. Yeah, yeah. I'll probably give it a 9 or an 8. I'm a bit underside. The first time I watched it, I gave it a 9,

but I watched the second time. I'm not quite so sure. But I still really, really like the film. I just have a very soft spot for these sorts of, dramas and the sort of small town vibe they have. It does make you feel very nostalgic even if you've never, you've never been in that like position before. And I definitely got that.

And I could like, I was just thinking to myself, you know, I could live there. I could, I quite like that sort of place. Everyone kind of knows each other. And it's just,

it's just really pleasing to watch. And I think that the narrative, you know, I think it could be stronger, hypothetically speaking, but also you don't want to make it too strong because I think also you don't want it to overshadow some of the like, I guess the small elements that actually happen in the scenes. So I think it's an important balance. And I really didn't mind the fact that they didn't lean too much into the narrative. But I still got like the message and the character growth out of it. that connected with me.

Awesome. Good pick. Thank you. Thank you for the recommendation. You're welcome. You're welcome. I'm glad you guys enjoy. Papa bless. Yes. I don't know what I said.

Whatever. Questions? All right. It's time for questions. Okay. Let's do some questions from this Donner cast community. if you want to leave your own questions, head over to the subreddit where there's a suggestion thread. You can ask us whatever you feel like, just like Butter 4-6-7 did. Question for the right opinion, but of course the other Sards can answer as well.

Are there any YouTubers or people online? You want to make a video one, but just haven't found a way to do it properly. That is a really interesting question, and I don't want to spill too many secrets. I don't know. I think the one that I get. What about one like you abandoned or something? Derek Savage. Yeah, I mean, I, the one, Derek Savage, I have considered that whole situation because I do find it fascinating.

But the one that I get a lot of requests for that I'm like, I don't know even how to begin looking at that one is Trisha Paitis. They are just posting, like, content. Like, they'll post every, like, minute. Seems overwhelming. And it's so hard to collect. everything. I've done videos where they've involved themselves and I just get lost and I'm doing a video where they are actually involved and and it's Tricia Pater's presence has jacked up the runtime massively and I just it's an interesting subject like the life of Tricia Pater's

But I just don't even know where to start with. There's such a mass of content there. Oh, my God. I can't even imagine sifting through it. It was really, really tiring for the last one, I'll tell you that. I don't really have an answer. Oh, okay. Well, not really a YouTuber.

I just feel I have to make a video on demo reel at some point, which is like the channel awesome. Like, I made this video on channel awesome Oh yeah, and like the most, the most watched part. The most watched part is the end of the video

with the super villain shuffle, right? And the focus on demo reel, which the only reason I haven't covered it is because honestly I'm being really serious. Like the demo reel, it's so hard to sit through. It's like absolutely excruciating

and like humiliating. You watched Tobolly flee. Yeah, you made it through to boldly freely, it's worse than that. It's like, it's, even more humiliating than like I can't stand like the absolute like even on pop quits hot show like

I love scorch like I love like a like a live talk show but seeing someone like try to write like a narrative and it's just like that it's just like so humiliating to like for me to even watch it I just feel like but maybe I'll get to it eventually that's just how I feel it's just so um it's it's very difficult yeah to watch demo reel um and that's kind of what kept me off of it at this point It's just hard to sit through. All right. Yeah, I guess that's it. I guess that's my answer.

Yeah, I feel like there's more to mine from these like Shane Dawson, quote-unquote documentaries. But again, it involves ever to actually like watch them. I've never seen those, yeah. Maybe I should. Definitely worth checking out. You know, I used to watch them when I was like a kid, Shane Dawson. Yeah. Like really young.

I was like probably kid. yeah i definitely um i i i i did take a look at uh shane dors on stuff a while but i can't remember much about it but i definitely under underbaked my my thoughts on it back then so maybe it is worth a a second look i'm sure there's more to be said about it at least yeah because you know i did that pop quiz hot-trap video or like on to boldly flea those movies are like 10 years old or whatever people didn't care they still watched them i don't think it cares like, I don't think people care that like the Shane Dawson documentaries are like five years old or whatever, you know, I think they'll still watch it as long as there's like good content

there or good jokes, you know, like I tried to write like funny jokes for like my, the To Boldly Flea video, which I feel I did. I'm pretty happy with that one. Okay. Another question. Right. Yeah, let's do that. One kind of similar lines, I guess. GGG-375, ask. this. What was everyone's thoughts on the right-wing YouTubers and their obsessions with movies being woke? The entire internet was aflame over Lightyear, kind of like what we talked about last episode, and the so-called woke kiss, but I watched the clip and the kiss lasted for maybe half a second. Do you think people who complain about wokeness are all clowns, or is there any validity in that line of thinking? Wokeness isn't inherently bad, but it can be

annoying and I especially feel it can be annoying in movies that are not really selling themselves as that okay or I don't know like like a woke movie for me is like everything everywhere all at once yeah it's kind of

I like that about that film I'm kind of confusing woke means anything the conservatives disagree with but the issue whatever is like I don't know whenever I don't know how to describe folk let me hear how you describe it I

whenever wokeness is an issue in a movie, it's not because of wokeness. It's because they're trying to inject things into the movie that take away from the experience of the narrative and the characters, right? So regardless of which way a writer is leaning,

it can be annoying when their political beliefs are injected into a film in a way that takes away from the film. If it's something like a black person being in a movie, I don't think that really takes away from a film. If it's something like a trans character existing in a movie, I don't think that that takes away from a film. So yeah, there are arguments you can make where it's like, oh yeah, the woke elements of a film took away from it

because it took away from the actual narrative. But I think that what a lot of very hysterical people on Twitter complain about doesn't necessarily fit that mold, especially as we've seen with the Buzz Light Your Kiss and now apparently just a trans character existing in a new Disney show is something to flip out over so yeah it's kind of weird

I thought yeah yeah I think the thing is I think sometimes I guess my only problem with it in this sense is that sometimes it feels quite performative and sometimes I feel they inject

these things like there's like a side thing as like, yes, hey, look, we love gay people. But then what they'll do is they'll, they'll, they'll make it so fleeting. So, because they're afraid to actually put like a character in that position in a more prominent role. So sometimes it more feels like a bit of an annoying wink, um, rather natural acknowledgement that this, this is people existing. And I think one of the concerns in the past and probably has happened is that basically, they put these people in these scenes for such a short amount of time so they don't piss governments in conservative countries off.

Yeah, that's annoying. And I talk about it when it happens. That's a valid thing to criticize Disney over and it's a valid thing to criticize the Russian and Chinese governments over. But it's a lot of the arguments now at this point, it seems to have evolved, seem to have evolved into just being upset that a black or trans person is in the movie. Like, that's unfortunately what it has devolved into is the conversation seems to be no longer about, like, hey, this is kind of performative. Like, that's a valid criticism, but people are actually being like, we need to censor this part in the movie so that children aren't corrupted by the woke agenda by Disney being, like, literally the option existing.

We can't let a single child know that a woman and another woman can ever kiss. Because otherwise, every kid will be gay or so. like that's what the conversation is now. That's fucked up. That was not woke. I'm sorry. That was like really, that was so minor in my opinion.

Yeah. It's like not even worth mentioning. It's sad that people even talked about it. Like it has gone so much further than the conversation was like a few years ago. And it isn't it and that and that that annoys me as well because it's like these are real experiences that will happen in in our lives. and why is it not fair to represent those on the screen? Exactly.

You will see people in gay relationships. Yeah, let's stop the performative shit. Stop including Christian characters in your movies. I don't want to see your shit. You know, you're trying to indoctrinate the kids into thinking that they can be Christians. Like, come on, it's the same argument. Stop fucking, stop being such a snowflake. Stop being so sensitive over people.

It's fucking art. Or like you said, when there's a straight, when there's a straight, when there's a straight relationship, relationship in a movie or a straight sex scene in a movie. It's like what are you grooming kids to be gay? It's like obviously not. It's just a sex scene or a straight scene. It's just expressive of street people just like how gay people can express themselves. For someone to for a character to exist in a film that is an identity and their identity is shown in the film and that's all there is to it whether it be black trans gay whatever. It's the same it's literally as political as if someone just had a Christian character in their film. It's as political as that but the, the, the, the These people don't complain about that shit. You know, as political as a straight person in the film, like, fuck off. Yeah, so cherry-picked. It's so cherry-picked. So annoying.

People feel threatened, too, that their lives are going to be affected by, like... Yeah, they're going to be affected by, like, a trans person or gay person making a film. But, like, really, like, like, it's... I'm sorry. It's not that common. Like, like, the Wachowski's, like, a trans sister... Or they used to be brothers and they became sisters, like, directing a film. That is not common.

This is not a common thing and people feel threatened by it, but it isn't, they shouldn't be threatened by it because it's not a common thing. Maybe their kid will be trans or gay, but maybe not. Like, they shouldn't be threatened by that. It's just people who are different from you expressing themselves and getting a spotlight. I don't know why they're so scared of it. Yeah, like a small portion of a fraction of a moment in a film in, which is the film itself is a fraction of the the overall filmography that exists on the planet, right? Just like the,

a billionth of a percentage, you know, of something like that existing is enough to flip out over apparently. So like, Jesus Christ, grow the fuck up. Stop being a baby. And just be comfortable or learn to be comfortable that other people exist in the world. You don't have to like them. You don't have to agree with them.

You don't have to be trans just because you saw a trans character in a movie. You don't have to, you don't have to get the same. surgery, don't worry. It's not going to be mandated. You know, so... There are many movies without, like, trans characters and gay characters that they can watch. The overwhelming majority of films do not have friends. I was going to say, the first 100 years of cinema, basically, with a few notable exceptions. Even the overwhelming majority of films today don't have trans. Even today. Yeah.

Because, again, most people are not trans or gay. They're just, like, a lot of them, you know, at least in my culture. It's not... No, it's a common. I don't know. Yeah. It's a very silly thing to be scared of. Yeah, it's just kind of goes back to like, it's what we were saying earlier of like the, when we're talking about men.

Like there's just certain topics, man. The wokeness one, gender stuff. And it just makes talking about it, just such a nightmare. Like, yeah, the scene in end game where they, they, like, pretend that there's like the women avengers, you know? And they're like, as if, yeah, that we've been building this up the whole time. I mean, they're, they're characters that are just as developed as everyone else. And it just feels like really corporate and lame.

But then when you like talk about that, it just becomes like another conversation like you're saying about like, yeah, there's like a black person in this now. This is, this is forced wokeness everywhere. And there are good faith conversations to be have, to be had about this subject. But unfortunately, having those conversations, there are a lot of bad faith. bad faith people that jump into those conversations and sort of derail it into their own just political agenda, which they claim to be against political agendas, you know, but they have their own, right? So, like, the newest one is, like, there's a leaked clip from a Disney Plus show that's a new Big Hero 6, basically. And there's a very, like, the clip is like 17 seconds

long or something. Big Hero 6 is in a store. They're supposed to grab like tampons for another character or something and they're in the aisle. And then all of these, a bunch of women essentially come up and help the character like, oh, here's the brand I like. One of those characters is a trans male. So female to male trans character. You can tell that because their shirt has the trans flag on it and they just say I like the ones with wings and the tweet that everyone's sharing says Disney is trying to indoctrinate the children but you know what I'm going to get the actual I wonder if I can search right it's always the same thing yeah the crazy thing about it the crazy thing about it is they say Disney is trying to teach children that men can have periods but what

doesn't make sense to me and people are retreating this unironically and joining in on this npc bandwagon of like oh i'm outraged at this right now but that was a female to male trans character when any other day of the week you would be saying that's a woman because they have woman parts so how are they now complaining that how is the narrative now Disney is trying to teach kids that men can have periods when i thought that you thought that was a woman it's so inconsistent and it just seems like you want something to be be outraged about. It's very, it's insanely performative, insanely annoying. It's just virtue signaling, which is something they claim to be against. So, yeah, grow the fuck up. People do it on both sides.

Yeah, there's annoying people on the left and annoying people on the right. And if you call out those annoying people on one side, maybe think about your side doing it too. Maybe think, hey, the people doing it on both sides are really fucking annoying and we should discourage that. Some people just don't want to look at their own side in that way. Such tribalistic, nonsense, bullshit, and it's caveman brain. I'm done. I think that summarizes it nicely. Thank you for your contribution.

But yeah, yeah, it's, I don't know, I just, I do find the whole, especially like, that sort of thing on Twitter, just nauseating. And you're completely right. It's just these people exist. And, you know, maybe, maybe Disney put it in. I don't know what the. context is behind that scene. Maybe it was done by a trans person.

But maybe it was just put in by Disney, you know, you know, is like to try and to try and win over people. But it's not a big deal. It's something that will happen. No. Will everyone be handed a tampon by a gentleman wearing a big trans flag jumper? No, but it's completely plausible. And it's completely within the realms of the reality that.

we live in. It's not an offensive thought, I don't think. I think it's completely normal and it should be and it should be normalized because those people, they exist and they should, they should, you know, they should be, you know, acknowledged as existing. You know, that's the, you know, it's reality. But they're existing in sin and we can't show children that. Everything I don't like is a sin. I will interpret. the Bible in whatever way I feel I don't think the Bible says anything about trans people does it?

It's such a hard conversation to have because there's so many different ways it can just divulge or almost just go off the rails and you know it's very difficult and we're all in good faith here you know so we're not like hurt by what we're saying but yeah it's it's a

hard thing and you know like you said Adam so many people just divulge or they just go into like religious bullshit where they go into like their own prejudice like literally it's just like homophobia or just like their own phobias of like people without trying to understand or like without looking outside themselves and that's why I love films because they allow you to empathize with other people like that's why I've always loved films um and that's just like it's it's just hard to have conversations with people who are not on the same wavelength as you know who aren't as empathetic yeah like they don't

give a shit. They don't give a shit if they're being hypocritical. They just want, they just want to tell you to go fuck off, really. There was a, there was a video I made, one of the only, like, explicitly political videos I've ever made. And I posted it on my vlog channel, and I titled it, Paul Joseph Watson versus Paul Joseph Watson. From the same year, basically, he contradicted himself completely in one video where he was trying to push. that mental illness isn't real. He was saying,

it's your fault if you feel depressed. There's no real reason why you're depressed. It's your own fault. And then as soon as the, are soybeans turning men into pussy's meme started coming up? Or, you know, soy boy was a thing. Then he released a video the same year saying, soybeans contain phytoestrogens,

and they can make you depressed. Your mood can be depressed. It's like, hold on, I thought you said, said that no physical things could make you depressed and it was just your fault and so I just put these two clips next to each other and literally no commentary just it speaks

for itself you're saying completely polar opposite things you've changed your beliefs the same year depending on what sort of thing you want to say and somebody sent that to him on Twitter and his response was like lull triggered snowflake and it's just like okay you're just not good fake you know that you're lying

you don't care that you're lying you're a bad faith piece of shit right and so unfortunately there's a lot of people like that both on the left and on the right and anywhere in between. There's a lot of people that exist like that. And it sucks because I want to have real conversations with people where the person I'm talking to cares about what reality is and cares about understanding the other person's perspective and cares about having a conversation where you can learn something.

And then these other assholes show up into the conversation and Twitter encourages these assholes to show up. and it completely incentivizes them in terms of how things get shared and rage clicks and all that bullshit. And that becomes the prevailing dominant conversation. And then it makes everybody look like shit who is even having the conversation in the first place when it comes from like an innocent place where it's just like, oh, we were just talking about this thing. Oh, fuck. Suddenly every extremist is here saying a bunch of nonsense because they don't give a shit about people and they just want to push their bullshit. Yeah.

Yeah. I feel like Twitter is one of those few places. places though where like they do allow like people who are maybe like outside of the norm to like express themselves like you have a Twitter checkmark at them like I feel like there's so many channels who are who are like ignorant or Twitter accounts that are ignorant and they don't have those check marks for that reason and I understand you can lose that check mark I read the rules or whatever um you can lose it if you like but I don't think you ever would I understand that it's just like people who are ignorant on Twitter, I feel they don't get a platform because they don't get that checkmark.

Oh, I disagree. I'll take you some accounts. Yeah? That's just how I feel. Because, you know, I, I only listen to people, people who are basically checkmarked or who, like, follow me and I follow them back or like my friends. That's how I see it. Yeah, Twitter is a cesspool. I don't listen. I have, like, giving a megaphone to the worst, most extreme voices. Oh, yeah, like, like fucking, there's so, oh, yeah. But they will not, but Twitter doesn't validate. down by giving them a checkmark. I feel... Oh, they do very much.

I think Nick Fentes had a check mark when he was on the fucking website. Really? Yeah. Then I just haven't seen this shit. I've seen plenty, but they were like, yeah, maybe not. There's tons. You know, I'm just, I'm... Again, I have my own feed that I view.

So I don't know what you view. Yeah. I mean, they used to... I see my own feed. That's like, my people. Yeah. You know, that's fair. I mean, to be fair, like, sometimes, like, I check.

Twitter and stuff is like you don't necessarily just see your people occasionally, especially maybe there's things and settings you can change, but you get likes, replies and so on. Trending tweets now. You see, yeah, you see people. It's still things they like or reply to it. Yeah. Yeah. So, but you see people who maybe you don't want to see.

Yeah. And I think, I think the thing is that about Twitter is that it is, it's just the problem of, of people trying to say things with so few words in a way, trying to make a strong statement. Well, they've increased the character limit, but... It didn't help. No, really, I didn't know that. Well, yeah, they did like a year ago or something. Wow.

They didn't even announce that. They, you know, I have a Twitter. They didn't share that with me. Like, I had no fucking idea. Like, when YouTube does something I know, they email me. Twitter is a website where people with the most reasonable opinions don't speak out because everybody with extremist positions on either side of an issue is essentially in this hysterical contest to dunk on and, what's the word, to signal boost people that they either agree with or disagree with in the most extreme ways. And so, bubbles of in groups, fine.

Everybody's acting like an asshole to each other. And so all the reasonable people who are like, okay, well, I don't really like drama that much. They don't speak up. And so then all you have are voices of assholes. Then all you have at a conversation on serious topics that people are having on Twitter, it's just a bunch of assholes because that's all who's speaking, because every reasonable person is like, maybe I don't want to fucking... Complete racist, homophobic assholes.

Especially because there can be huge ramifications for like tweets now. Yeah. Yeah. People, people, it's, people bully the shit out of each other on that website. They're bullies. Such pieces of shit on that website. Holy fuck. If you have an opinion that's just like a little bit different, you know, you apply like a bit of nuance to anything.

Even if you have like the most milk toast opinion on the world, there'll be someone who's like, wow, get a load of this guy. Check this out. They're an abuser or something now. Like, fuck off. Holy shit. It's built for it. Ratios and quote tweeting, as you're saying. It's actually designed for it.

Yeah. It's literally just the way the website works. It's incentivizing. Yeah. It's a cancerous, cancerous awful website. and Jordan Peterson's better without it now get the fuck off there I feel like you're speaking from some

I feel like deep deeply rooted personal experience is Adam I'm just I yeah I get I get passionate about these types of things I get upset at human beings you know so good I mean

Twitter claims to be this like safe space or whatever for like all voices. Yeah, fuck them. If that's how you feel, if you want to go off, go off, King.

I'm just kind of at the point in my life where I'm like, well, you know, people, you know, to be fair, this has existed for a long time.

It's just Twitter has, I guess, shown it in a more obvious light. Definitely. Yeah. But, but,

I mean, even like politics, like, go back over the decades. And it's, it's all, this very like, I guess, emotionally based arguments and so on. It's much more divided at this point.

Yeah. These people have always existed. It's just Twitter seems to illuminate them more. Now they have the biggest megaphones, yeah. Yeah. Twitter's the platform for it, for whatever reason. Yeah. What was once considered, like, fringe extremism is now, like, main political discourse.

I went to the fucking United States and just turned on the television. like yeah i'm not gonna get into this because this is like another long conversation we gotta represent that's like the shit i see that's considered like news or just like this is like actual political like this fucking five years ago that was considered like fringe conspiracy theory nonsense you guys can't figure out who won your fucking election holy shit oh my god Jesus Christ we know what our election i mean it's it's the other guy's fucking shit up like a two too much, a too high of a percentage of the population. It was once considered like fringe conspiracy shit.

In many other Western countries it is still. But it's somehow broken to the mainstream. That's fucked up. The internet's broken a bunch of people's brains, especially boomers. Holy shit. I agree with you, Adam. Incredibly dated rules, laws, laws, ideology. Yes, completely dated.

I would agree. Yeah, we weren't ready for this power, you know? It is, it is concerning like, yeah, it is concerning like, in a way how I guess this is kind of reflected back onto the real world politics and the sort of direction like it feels like we're heading in right now. It is hard to kind of remain like optimistic. It's hard to avoid politics is how I feel because I always try to avoid it. And I feel like it's just impossible now because there are these people who are just so ignorant out there. And it's like, everything's hyper politicized. What are you fucking thinking?

Like, are you out of your fucking minds, like some of these people? Like, really. Politics has always been everywhere. Like, everything is inherently political, but the divisiveness is, is hyper politicized now. Yeah, yeah. Movies, like, people who say movies aren't political. Movies are inherently political. Most movies are very political.

Most good movies anyway. Most movies that I like. Being apolitical is political. Even if it's extremely subtle. it's just hard even source code is like political like I just watch it it's like a dumb science fiction movie

but it's about like the military industrial complex and how the United States military overreacts certain things and creates certain laws or whatever it's dumb yeah it's you know that's just every piece of entertainment

like people can you can't help but see the world around you right and react to it in some way yeah life imitates art and life is political also. But yeah. And you get put into camps even like you don't say anything. Like I've read a comment the other day that was describing me as having Trump derangement syndrome, even though I don't think I've even really talked about Donald Trump before. Like I just don't know, why it's, why? You're a big Donald Trump. Didn't you vote for him in 2020? Yeah. Even though you're not. Yeah. Yeah. The UK based guys. Yeah. Right. I just don't get where they even get it from. It's just like you just make.

Well, I have never gotten any Trump stuff and it's like, what? I live here. I've made jokes about them. It's so strange. It is strange. Everyone's a fucking idiot. That's my political perspective. Everybody's a fucking idiot.

Nobody's smart enough to be having any real conversations. I think people are emotional. And to be fair, like, I think some of the emotional, is justified right now, particularly when you look at some of the political decisions being undertaken by U.S. state governments and even obviously the Super Supreme Court's most recent decision, it's going to get upset people. I think that's fair. It's just important to like to focus the energy, like on memes. Memes. On the enemy and on discourse, on talking about it, because I feel it's ultimately the best way of moving forward, um, and not any way else. All right. We got to wrap up

pretty soon just if I. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's fair. And I, I agree. It's it's it's a difficult conversation a lot of the time. But the point is, you know, I, I want to, I want to live in a, in a, in a generally quite, you know, accepting world. And, and, and it feels like we are going in, we are going backwards. And, and I think, I think that, you know, we, we can all do our part. And, but at the same time you know you can't expect everyone to to like be like

a vocal Twitter advocate on these matters some people don't feel confident or comfortable speaking publicly and it's kind of and I hate to sound like to work myself but it is kind of ableist to impose impose like I guess expectations

on people who may not who may not have the ability or feel like they have the ability to talk on certain subjects. You know, just do your part to make the world a better place, even if it's small things. And there'll always hopefully be some people to try and take, you know, steer the ship of the great planet Earth in the right direction. Yeah. Yeah, I can agree with one. Yeah. Let's just chill out.

Yeah. Yeah. Put on a copy of Shrek 2. Just forget about the world. Yeah, exactly. Or Minions Rise of Groo. Sit back, relax, and don't think about anything political while the people that want to control your lives go out and vote. Bye-bye.

All right. Thank you for the questions. That was a great discussion. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Thank you for joining us. It was a bit of pleasure. Yes, thank you. Yeah, thanks so much.

Thank you for joining us. some fun guest episode adventures. I guess before we wrap up the show, where would people find you if they want to find you? They can find me on my YouTube channel mainly. I don't really use many other social medias right now. Kind of just focusing on trying to do YouTube. So the YouTube is the right opinion.

Hopefully that will take you there if you search in YouTube. I'd be a bit concerned if it took you anywhere else, to be honest. I'll change my channel name to make it confusing. How dare you? Otherwise, I mean, I am on, you probably find me on social medias, but either they're dormant or completely inactive. I've forgotten they even exist. So best to just, I guess, go on YouTube.

And if you need me anywhere else, then you might be able to find a counterfollow. But I can't guarantee you'll see much action out of it. Mm-hmm. Okay, awesome. If you, but I guess it's to, I should recommend a film. It's time. Yeah, well, over you go. Oh, it's your turn?

Oh, shit. Okay, go ahead. Yes. Um, I have decided we are doing the third Bruce Willis film in a row. Uh, 12 monkeys. by Terry Gilliam. Cool. Because I have a 4K

Blu-ray for it now. Should be pretty easy to find for everybody. Yeah. Haven't seen it in a while and I want to give this 4K Blu-ray a watch.

So, yeah. I've seen it. It's been a while. Yeah, it's been a while. All right. So if you're listening, if you don't want to be spoiled for 12 monkeys

directed by Terry Gilliam, 1995 starring Bruce Willis and also Brad Pitt Then watch it before the next episode These episodes come out every two weeks You can listen to them early As they're edited

By going to sardonicast.com Sign up for premium It's only $2 a month And you get to listen to them early Also patreon.com slash sardonicast Also we got merch There's links in the description Also there's a Sardonicast highlights channel

maybe search that or something. Also, give us some fan art. It will be included at the beginning of the video if it's not like explicit or something, I guess. All right, thank you for listening, everybody. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you.

Happy Shrek. Bye. Thanks, everyone. Bye. Bye. Bye-bye. Cheerios.