Sardonicast - Sardonicast 117: Halo, 12 Monkeys

Episode Date: July 25, 2022

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Buy Sardonicast T-Shirts, and other merchandise at https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast. Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthemoviemaker Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Ralph's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ralphthemoviemaker Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Fan art: https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/tkgag3/this_is_a_fanart_that_i_made_for_the_boys_i_just/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/tnvj0v/found_an_old_vhs_in_my_family_home_titled_speed/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/tjm51n/no_movies/

Three, two, one. Master Chief, you mind telling me what you're doing on that ship? Sir, finishing this fight. Nice. Hello, everybody. It's episode 117 of Sardonicast. I'm Adam from your movie sex. Hello.

I'm Ralph. I don't watch Halo. Or play. What do you mean? Don't watch Halo. Or play Halo. My favorite TV show. Play Halo.

Yeah, I'm Alex from IT. I have no idea what you're talking about. No clue. Yeah, I'm Alex from IT. and a former Halo fan. I'm gonna just throw that out of there instantly. You can still be a fan of the old games. You can still call yourself a fan.

Okay, yeah. No, we'll get into it in more detail and we talk about this episode's special subject. But, man, it's not a good time to be a Halo fan. I'll just put it that way then. I mean, the past, I don't know. Decade. Decade.

Ten plus 15. How many years? Has it not been a good time? to be a Halo fan? This isn't a new thing. Ten years. I don't know why people, did people get their hopes up? Did people look at this new show and be like, it's finally happening? Were people surprised by this? Like, um, I guess. I don't know. It's just been, it's been flirting around these concepts, these ideas. I don't know. Are we getting into the show first or we got some news first? We'll talk about Halo in just a little bit. Uh, but we're going to talk about some movie

news first. Speaking of Halo, PlayStation, which is not Microsoft, they've announced that they are pulling access to purchased Studio Canal movies next month. So if you bought a film from Studio Canal on the PlayStation, you know, they're on demand or, you know, content that you can download to your console. Yeah. They're just like, hey, you've paid for. for it but it doesn't exist anymore because you don't actually own it you just had a license to

rent it the entire time and no refunds sorry is basically the but just for one studio yeah because of yeah it's a contract expired or something and they're stupid about how they set that up so it's just like a contract thing yeah well oh well sorry it lost your money this is the digital library thing man it's always i think about that like because i buy a a lot of my movies on iTunes. It's just like, what if one day they do the similar thing? Like in a few decades time or whatever. Yeah.

It's not like impossible. Yeah. I feel like it happens a lot. I'm a hacker man. And so I spend a lot of time figuring out how to remove DRM from like purchase things on iTunes. So I basically, I buy a movie on iTunes. And then I use like a couple different programs to just save it as an MP4 that I can move onto a hard drive and then I don't feel guilt about it and I can just use it however I want.

And then I can also like, you know, use them in videos and stuff. It's like easier, you know, to remove the DRM. I should specify that the variety article I'm reading is saying that it is customers in Germany and Austria. So I don't know if this is an international thing where they're removing that content. Either way, even if it's, you know, restricted by region, that's a pretty shitty thing to do. It's a pretty shitty reality and I love physical media, you know, you can't take away that, although maybe there's some content that you need to access remotely. Remember Blu-ray Live? BD. Live? Remember that shit? Like, nobody remembers? Oh, I'm such a boomer. Very live. Well, did I have to like connect to network? No. Okay, so yeah, when Blu-ray's first came out, part of the, part of the way they were advertising it is like, this is like DVD, but it like connects to the internet, yo.

So your Blu-ray player, PS3 or just regular Blu-ray player, would either have Ethernet or Wi-Fi. They would use that to update the player, but they would also use that for something called BD Live. And so they'd be like, oh, you just, you buy the disc, and then you'll be able to watch a live interview with Christopher Nolan about the Dark Night. And it was like, I didn't do that. So I don't know, like, if people pressed buttons on the remote to ask questions or like, I don't know how that fuck that work. But there's stuff like that. There's also certain Blu-rays where they had updated trailers, which is like stupid. I hated it so much because if I have an old Blu-ray, I want to pop in the old Blu-ray

and watch some old trailers. I want to know what was being advertised at the time. I want to know what they put on the disc. But there's some Blu-Rays, like around 2009, where they were like, no, we'll just, we'll have it download new trailers from the internet and we'll advertise new, movies in front of it, no matter when you put the Blu-ray disc in. And I'm glad that that didn't, you know, stay a thing. I'm glad that they'd stop doing that.

But there's like a small window of time where they did that. And I was like absolutely furious because it was so stupid. I feel like I remember that. Yeah, sucks. Being a consumer sucks. Being an artist sucks too. It's just licenses. How many times?

How many times we complained about licenses on the show and just like that? be it different countries or just release all over the world. And like, the selection of movies on Netflix here is completely different from that in US than I'm sure that in Canada. And it's just like, how do you can keep track of all this? It's so frustrating and annoying.

The internet, like, it just opened the floodgates in a way that just doesn't make sense to this old way of, like, just distribution. It's just incompatible with previous models. Yeah.

Because, because, yeah, if, like, if you find out people in Australia are watching something that you don't have access, too for another couple months. You're probably just going to download it for free, even though you're

willing to pay for it. There's a lot of people that are just like, okay, well, I would like to watch this thing that other people are watching. Yeah. Well, like with the whole streaming thing, you've got to go like, I don't know what your guys process is. So if you don't have it, a physical copy or whatever, but I'll always search up, okay, like 12 monkeys, for example, where's that streaming then? And then like Google it, go to like the websites that compile it. Oh, it's randomly on BBC I player in the UK. All right. Okay, I'll just watch it on there.

But it's only there for a year, though. So after the year, then I guess you've got to source it elsewhere. Yeah, you're on a constant hunt. Goes somewhere else. Playing whack-up. But that was like the whole appeal of the digital library to me, especially was when like a 4K release would come out, you'd get it for free.

You know, if they did like the Dark Night trilogy or something, the 4K comes out. It's just automatically they. You don't have to pay extra. That's like really appealing to me. but then the offside is just, I can just pluck it away at any point or maybe they'll charge for the next thing,

8K or whatever. It's just a nightmare. I would think that there might be a case, like, because no matter what things say in their terms of service agreements, you could always make a case that something was incorrectly advertised anyway.

So like, if something on the storefront page was described in a certain way, you can still make a legal case to sue if it's misleading, even if it says something more specific in the terms of service agreements. I believe that's the case anyway. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works. And so if I were a lawyer looking at this, I would be really hung up on the difference between rent and buy or rent and own, because those are two different price points and I have to assume I'm pretty sure I looked through the PlayStation

like video store before and rent would be like rent it for 24 hours and then own or buy would be like oh keep it in your library and it's like okay well if you select the buy option and it's just an extended rental then you should maybe like reflect that in its description you should say this is an extended rental if you're not really buying it right so I don't know yeah you're not buying it you're buying a license to use it and they can reverse at any point in time. I think that that's misleading. But, you know, like, are people going to file a class action lawsuit where everybody gets a dollar or some shit? Like, right, it's not enough money to be, like, upset about. Like, would you lose out on, like,

couple bucks? Yeah. Yeah. It's not worth suing. Yeah. The lawyers win and everybody else, you know. So, yeah. Correct me if I misinterpreted how that works in the comments section, but... I don't know. It just sucks. Don't fucking guess. Don't be a, don't be a guesser. Don't Correct me unless you're an expert, okay? Sucks. Unless you're an actual copyright, Lori. It's not even copyright, is it? That would be a...

Yeah, what is it? Digital license, right? No, no, it would be, it would be like a, like a business practices lawsuit, not necessarily a copyright, like a misleading. I don't remember the terminology, but I'm not going to pretend.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so this is like a... I guess. just kind of a small example of something that has been happening. iTunes has pulled, you know, certain movies from certain regions as well. Even on streaming services where you don't like pay to download a certain title, you know, there's been censorship where they've removed episodes of TV shows or cut out parts. True.

Have edited things in post. I like physical media and I like media preservation. I like art preservation. Yeah, we're in a weird space. especially with like this came into my mind with like these kind of 360 Xbox 360 era games that have like online components just started shutting down yeah like a few years ago

yeah we're not going to run the servers anymore well if you have a steam deck in your emulating which I would never I would never suggest to do but I'm saying it as a fact if you have emulation software then that might be the only way to actually experience previous games, except the online components, obviously. In some ways, yeah, unless you have a physical copy of it.

Yeah. Yeah. P.T. bros. Which, you know, some games were only online. Yeah. Some games were only digital. Yeah. But that's the thing that, like those games with online components, the physical, like, disc, when you put it in now for these, like, server disconnected games, like, they're just defunct products.

They're just nothing. It's just like a piece of metal in a box. There's another piece of movie news that we've already kind of segueed into. Ubisoft or Ubisoft, I really don't know how I'm supposed to pronounce it. I always say Ubisoft myself, but... I say Ubisoft. They're French, right? I say Ubisoft because they're gross.

Agreed. They put out an announcement that they're shutting down multiplayer and online services for 15 games in September 22. Okay. So this is on their official website. Decommissioning of online services, September 2020. Closing the online services for some older games allows us to focus our resources on delivering great experiences for players who are playing newer or more popular titles. To help us achieve this, a number of older titles will be added to our list of decommissioned online services on September 1st, 2022. Below you'll find a detailed breakdown for the effects of this new round of decommissions per platform. So some of them just say like you will be unable to play multiplayer, uh, things like that,

which seems pretty, uh, pretty standard. Uh, yeah. Some of them are, are much worse. And they say, so Assassin's Creed 3, 2012, at least on PC, they say additionally, the installation and access to downloadable content will be unavailable. It's like, what? Excuse me? Oh, they won't even host that? It's not even a network thing. Yeah. What if you already paid for it and you want to download it again into your library? Like, what if you have a new computer and you wiped your old one? What if I just bought these games?

Kind of how I just bought a bunch of Assassin's Creed games. You got to beat them before September, Ralph. I don't feel like they're that old. Assassin's Creed. Well, this one says 2012 release. Yeah, Assassin's Creed 2, Assassin's Creed 3, Far Cry 3. You know, yeah. That's crazy.

The fuck? Yeah, so I got to play multiplayer soon. So yeah, not being able to access DLC, not being able to get the full experience of the game, supposedly, depending on what kind of DLC. Yeah. Well, maybe no one plays it.

That's always the thing with these, like, any game that's a couple years old, you can't find any people to play it with. So maybe that's why they're shutting it down. Who fucking knows? Ghost Recon Future Soldier says, to play the solo campaign, you'll have to set your console into offline mode. Wow.

That's funny. Yeah. Wow. Rayman Legends, you will be unable to link Ubisoft accounts in-game or use online features. So no more online co-op. That's a great game as well, that one. Yeah. Well, just a lot of these games, I remember, I don't know if they do it as much anymore.

They were like single-player games, but they had all this online shit. Oh yeah, it's just a bunch of DRM bullshit You needed to be online to play a single player game Yeah So you can't even access a game That technically doesn't even require like online Or multi-player you could play the single player Yeah, I'm sure they have

Yeah It was like the new Sims game or something It was like SimCity Like you couldn't play single player Unless you were connected to the internet It's like okay fuck you Yeah Like Jesus

In their quest to Supposed to supposedly stop piracy they are creating, they're ensuring that pirates are offering a better product for free. They're making the paid version worse to play. Yeah. That's just how this shit works. It's just like multiplayer in games, like in that way, I feel is kind of new. And we're seeing like the, you know, like after 10 years, like, what do you do with like the servers, like when no one's playing the game anymore?

They just like, delete them. Yeah. Bye-bye. And now, like, I feel like game companies, they try a little more, like, to elongate, the multiplayer component. So like GTA 5 online or Rainbow 6. Like those games have been going for a long time.

Like the online component's still very strong for those. Like, I don't think those will go away anytime soon. They could eventually. But like Red Dead? I don't know what's going on with that. That'll probably shut down like at the same fucking rate at this point. Because no one plays that shit. The problem is like if they stop doing it,

fans of the game will, you know, try to keep things, like you, you can have people doing that shit for free, but then they get cease and desist letters, you know?

So there's, there's people that would just be willing to keep these things running and maintain the servers and, you know, maybe even crowdfund the expenses for it, uh, to keep it running.

There's people willing to do that if the game has a strong enough fan base, but, you know, you can only imagine just, based on the rest of history that they get cease and desist letters for doing that sort of thing. Maybe. We want to sell our newer games.

Stop playing the older ones. Maybe. Stop it. But then what about when the current new ones become old? Because those games you're listed are kind of before the whole industry shift into just everything being a live service. Yeah. We're like seasons and updates.

And yeah. Like how do you archive a game like Destiny or something? You don't. You can't. It's impossible. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. You'll never experience, like, the glory days of, like, an online game. Mm-hmm.

You know? I feel it's different now. It's like the, the Halo, original Halo on PC was, like, a lot of fun. I wonder if I could still access that. I just miss, there's one thing that I miss so much about multiplayer online games. is that when Halo, the first actual PC release of Halo and like StarCraft on PC, I remember being able to select which game you wanted to go in. Someone would like make a title and description of like, oh, I made this type of game.

There's like six people in it or something and then you can just join it. Yeah, like server list. Now everything is like voted on and the categories are so vague where it's like if I want to play a specific game type with people and it's not a custom. game with just friends I know and I just want to go online and play a specific game type. You can't really. You can join like a lobby that might have that game type in it. And then if people vote for it on like a random map, then you know, then maybe you can play

it. And then people just vote for the same shit every time, you know? It's so annoying. Yeah. That's the problem with voting. I miss being able to just look at the list of different games that are happening and just picking one and going in. It was so nice.

It's very frustrating. But as you said earlier, we're just boomers, man. It's not Fortnite That's how it works now That's multiplayer games now They just deliver what you need You know Yeah

Well Fucking Sony being stupid And then Ubisoft being stupid And everyone's stupid Now we can talk about Microsoft being stupid Hello

I mean Halo It's time to talk about Halo Video games Halo Halo So you guys talk I didn't watch any of the shit, so you guys just talk about it. I suggested Ralph shouldn't watch it also.

Yeah. People who hate me could be like, oh, good, let them talk. Yeah, you're not even like really familiar with the games. No, because it's, again, it's past my time. Like, by the time I was the age for Halo, it was irrelevant. Like you guys are saying, it was got old like 10 years ago, whatever. Like, I think the first one, I have played one. I played Halo Reach.

That was the first one I played. I'm like, this is fine. And I never played another one. Play Halo Combat Evolved. Okay, yeah. I'm sure they're all good, but they're not really in my time. Halo Reach, yeah, Halo Reach is fine. It's never going to be.

That was the start of the decline, arguably. It's not the same experience as Halo one. No. Play that co-op. Play the campaign co-op with somebody. Sure. I'll play them one day, maybe. Out of, like, nostalgia.

That was it, yeah. So, yeah, tell me about Halo. Um, well, so, uh, there's, um, video game called HALPAs. Halo, very cinematic and influential. It changed how first-person shooters were made. And over time, the games started getting progressively worse. The original company that was making the games decided to go on and do other things like make destiny.

Yeah, that's right. They made destiny. Bungee? Microsoft created another company to take over called 343 Industries. And they... End off to the villain. Just been... Yeah, kind of goofing things up repeatedly and making a bunch of crap decisions.

Something I know about Halo is just the lore. The lore of Halo is like very extensive. And I heard they were going to make a film about Halo as well. Neil Blancamp was like attached to make it. Yeah, Alex Garland wrote a script. Peter Jackson was going to produce it. And then... Yeah, that kind of fell through.

And Peter Jackson ended up producing District 9. Yeah, it was supposed to be Neil Blom camp. For Neil Blancamp. To kind of like make it up to him. Yeah. Like, it's almost like he felt bad for Neil Blanc Kim, but gave him money to make District 9, which is a great movie. But I like that story.

I think that's a cool story. But yeah, that Halo movie just never really came through. I don't know what happened with it. Yeah. Instead, we get the Halo TV show. Nice. Which is just so bizarre. It's...

Like, why now? Why now? Because it's straight to streaming. Ralph kind of... I don't know. Yeah, the streaming was and they had... Paramount needed something. some IP that is recognizable to be a flagship.

Yeah, that's exactly why. They spent a billion dollars on South Park. Oh, dude. But Ralph kind of alluded already, like, to people who aren't already Halo fans, like, it's kind of an old, out-of-date license now. It doesn't have the same gravitas. It once did.

It was huge. Like, the early 2000s, like, it was such an important video game. It was so, also, like, it tied into content creation and like early YouTube stuff. It was such, and Red versus Blue and everything. It was like such a powerful force. It's like mysterious and it had that soundtrack and everyone knows the design of Master Chief.

Everyone knows Master Chief. And you fast forward 20 years later and you get this TV show. This fucking mess of a TV show, which is like, the most famous thing about it is that like Master Cheeks was born from it because he gets naked so much. Do you, I don't know if I told you this, but um so one of the most unintentionally gay movies ever is uh death race two directed by role Renee if I pronounced it correctly and he's barely done anything he does like a bunch of

straight to video shit and it like essentially he created a film that um was appealing to like yeah cars and girls and you know all that shit but then like you you break down the movie and it's like Okay, wait. There's a shower scene. Luke Goss is completely naked. The girl is just standing there completely clothed next to him. And all these shots of his glistening body. And it's like so, I hope this guy's out of the closet. Because if not, that's sad.

Like, it's obvious. It's obvious. You look through the credits of the Halo show, the two episodes, the only two episodes that have like full naked butt shots in them of dudes, directed by Roll Renee. He did it again. Yeah. He did it again. the only two episodes out of the series that have like this weird homer eroticism to it like I hope he's out of the club I really do it's it's weird yeah they got a strange pool of talent for the show yeah

Jonathan Lebesman directed a couple of episodes he did battle Los Angeles and uh teenage mutant ninja turtles wrath of the Titans right I think so I'm curious what you actually know about Halo Because it's kind of interesting to me You're a total outsider to you only just played a little bit of Halo Reach Which in law is like a prequel Is that like all you know Do you know anything about like the core conflict Or even what like the name is alluding to?

No, I don't know anything about the lore I know it's like some kind of Master Chief right And there's like a bunch of them They're like an army And they fight aliens Yeah, the Spartans right And they fight like aliens

But yeah reach was like a prequel So I didn't even get it. like any of the story or whatever. It was just like a... Yeah, it was more like a swan song fan send-off because it was like Bumji's last Halo game. They went backwards instead of taking forwards. And I play the single player.

From what I hear, like the multiplayer is more like what people love about those games. Kind of like the call duty, like crowd. Like they like the multiplayer shooting as well. Even, you know, I'm not saying the universe isn't good, but like, yeah. People like Halo 2 and 3. Yeah, everyone played like the multiplayer, I think.

Yeah, yeah. because Halo 2, well, Halo 1, like, revolutionized, like, FPS is on console. Halo 2 came out, revolutionized, like, multiplayer lobbies and stuff. So, like, Accod lobbies and stuff. That's all thanks to Halo's, like, early Xbox Live kind of networking prowess. Yeah. And then Halo 3 revolutionized, like, content creation and content sharing. You had all these, like, map builders and these, like, built-in features to, like, share with

each other and everything and this whole, like, yeah, community aspect. It was, like, a real focus. That I did remember from, like, my friends played it, and I played, like, briefly with them. So I do remember that, like, the map, or like a game creation, like custom rules, which Call of Duty did also. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was huge. It was way ahead of its curve, way ahead of the time. But, yeah, just after that point, it gradually just started decaying, especially when Bungie jumped ship and 3-4-3 industries took over. and yeah, I said it a second ago, but the,

I don't know why they named the company on the, like, based on the villain, one of the main villains of the original trilogy. He's like a robot. That's strange. 3-4-3 guilty spark. He's like a villainous thing on a halo ring. So it kind of set the tone for the whole, their whole approach, I think.

But they've been like, they've made three games, they've had the, the halo license for the same amount of time that Bungi did. Actually longer. They've released three games of their own. And each one of them has been like more and more of a disaster each time. They just have no idea what to do with it. And it's just become this weird like zombie at this point.

It just has no identity anymore. And the show is kind of similar. Like if you wanted to make a like a Halo TV show, a Halo movie, it needed to be in the kind of late 2000s. Like it just, it's not precious. anymore in the same way. And if you were going to do it, you'd at least need to aim it at the fans of Halo or something, like at least try, because the TV show doesn't even, I don't know who it's for aside from people who only like kind of vaguely know what Halo is.

Uh-huh. Like that Warcraft movie. Yeah, but at least with that movie, Warcraft fans actually liked it. Mm-hmm. And there was the passion there too. Like Duncan Jones was a, was a Warcraft fan and he was passionate about making that film and making more of them perhaps. And I just feel like that is in here. Like I definitely didn't like Warcraft. I feel like if the time to do it would have been would have been like Peter Jackson and Neil Blancamp, like that would have been the time to do it if they were going to do it, even if it wasn't great.

And some of the like Neil Blancamp designs are actually floating out there for like some of the creatures and stuff and they look really wacky and kind of interesting. but it's just something about this franchise man it's it's it's trapped in like the mid 2000s and there's just like a core of people like me and adam who like played it when we were young so it's like part of our early gaming memories but it just hasn't it hasn't been able to maintain it and they've tried all sorts of like transmedia stuff before like um there was this really bad um was it straight to it kind of was it kind of was packaged in with Halo 5, there was this, like, show or something,

this all this, like, kind of mini movie. It's called Halo Nightfall. I feel like I've seen that. Yeah. And it was like super low budget, really bad acting. And it just, it just makes the franchise look embarrassing. Yeah. Like, I can imagine for someone like you seeing this stuff,

it must make it look so lame. And you must wonder, like, what is it about this property that people even love? It was like a fan film. I feel like I remember that. It's like a fan film. Yeah, and I think when Halo 4 came out, there was this like machinima, not like an actual machine. The Machinima YouTube channel uploaded this mini series called Ford Unta Dawn, which was plagued

by the same issues. It was like, it looked like a fan film. Like really bad CG. Like everything's like hidden because it's just so like cheap. The only like good Halo films have been those. from Neil Blomkamp. Yeah. So they,

those existing is even more frustrating because you've already got a bit of a blueprint for some kind of idea. Even like some of the bungee era ads for Halo. Oh, hell yeah. There's like a really famous, like,

Deliver Hope for Halo Reach. It was like a cool tonal thing. It's like a real emphasis on like the heaviness, the music. Yeah. The music's always such an important part of the Halo series. No, that's, yeah. Like if you have to boil Halo down into two things,

it's the music and mouse chief in his armor specifically and those two things the Halo TV show doesn't do it abandons both things

I think I know I think I know the music Oh Yeah it's iconic Yeah everyone knows the halo theme Yeah So just starting with that That's crazy

I haven't even played them really And I know that I don't know how I know that But I do Oh Oh Yeah the monks I remember the ad campaign for Halo 3,

believe, with those like miniatures. Yeah. And the, I think it was a showpin song, Chopin. If not, maybe it was DeBussy. I think it was chopping. My favorite classical composer. It was a, they were weirdly reserved. There was that like veteran, like picking up like a brute's weapon.

or whatever, and talking about it. I loved that ad campaign. Yeah. What did like stylish, tasteful advertising campaign? They had, yeah,

Halo 2 and 3 had like one of the most like incredible ad campaigns for like television spots and all that. Like each one of them was so like emotional and like just like great short films as ads basically. Like they really know what they were doing. What happened

Yeah And so you have this This library of Music That is associated with the game And they don't use it They're like tiny little moments In the Halo show

Yeah, little sprinkles You can hear like Kind of the Halo theme And it's like oh, okay, well This doesn't even feel appropriate At this moment But like, it never has the feel of the original games. It never has the feel of the universe.

It's just like, oh, there are some character designs of some of the aliens that are the same. And that's about it. They decide to tell like a really bizarre story. Yeah. I was like really into like Halo lore when I was like a teenager, like going as far as like reading the books and stuff. And that was like the only enjoyment I got from the show was like. like, oh, how are they going to fuck up this kind of cool idea from one of the books I remember from like a decade ago?

How are they going to fuck it up? Yeah, and they definitely did. It's almost more frustrating. Like, there is like a heart to, that's the thing about, hey, in the games, the stories, like, they're not like anything crazy special. It's more like the package and how it comes together and the context of the time of when they came out because they're very, like, it's very familiar kind of stuff. Like it's obviously heavily inspired by aliens with the Hurrah soldiers and like the pelicans are so similar to like the flying vehicles and aliens and the flood are kind of like, you know, the alien from aliens.

There's so much like 80s inspiration in there. But they managed to bring it together in a way that made something really unique. And with the expanded law stuff, there was a way they could have approached this and made it be like a satisfying, interesting story. but just the basic, basic kind of level they fuck up. Like, the thing about Mercer Chief is that he's supposed to be a man, a few words. Yeah. That's his whole thing.

He's supposed to be like a pale guy who's trapped in this suit. He hides in the suit, basically, and he doesn't talk and he just gets the job done. That's all he does. And he just, a few quips here and there. That's kind of his character. But three for three have just been obsessed with like, quote unquote humanizing him. Who is the man behind the helmet?

Yeah, I want to know who that guy is. Yeah, is Master Chief the main character of the show? Yes. Yeah, which is weird. Oh, oh. Yeah. What's his butt look like? I don't feel that's a good idea.

Yeah, you're right. It's not a good idea. But even then, after watching something like the Mandalorian, which has a main character who's always in armor, only takes it off like once. It is possible. You can't do it. You just go surround the main character with something,

you know something interesting yeah like you need like a rookie character like a tertiary character who yeah master chief is there but he's like a supporting role or like the kind of the leader or something not the focus because yeah it's just master chief is just like a look and there's nothing to them

they had one episode where they focused on some girl that I don't remember her name and it's the worst it's the worst rated episode on IMDB and people were very, very mad. I thought that it was like, I don't know, as bad as the rest of the show pretty much. But I understand, like, you know, the nerds who are like, I want Master Chief, and then they spend an entire episode on,

what is your name? Kwan? Kwan Ha. I had to write it down before we start, so I can remember. Yeah, they spent an entire episode on her. I could, yeah, I can visualize the nerd rage happening there. Yeah, because she gets like an entire kind of beat. plot that spans the entire season that's kind of just mostly irrelevant to everything.

It's really just like nothing. It's like, feel like the only thing that I could like not forgive, but at least understand more was that like the budget limitations perhaps for this first season was so restrictive that they just needed to fill it with some just dumb shit like that. And just to get the show out there just to prove like, look, we're making the show. And we just need to prove that people watch it so we can get an, another season and we can get more money and because it's like it's an expensive concept

as a huge like space opera all these locations these CG creatures and monsters like constantly on screen but then it cuts to like Kwan Ha for half of every episode just just pottering about in like the desert like a dune buggy yeah she's not doing anything

she's like I got handcuffed to a motorbike for something like I don't remember and it's like the yeah it's like the most obvious like rebel type like she sees her dad get like killed and he was like a rebel and it like sends her on this path but but so why what is what why are you doing this in the halo show because simultaneously the main plot thread is them like it starts before they actually know what a halo ring is and it's like them going on that journey's trying to find so they're like different communities or something there's like different rebel factions and then

And like near the beginning, they get attacked by the covenant and they're like, they think it's UNSC, but it's covenant. And they're like, so the show is saying that they didn't know the covenant exists. They thought it was like a myth or something. It was like the impression I got that they didn't, they thought covenant was just a story until they get attacked by it. Yeah, they hadn't really interacted with them properly quite yet. It's so weird. Yeah, because from what I remember and it was kind of a cool, like, law thing. is that like the Spartan program is started by this kind of crazy scientist, Dr. Halsey,

who commits all these like war crimes and all these kind of illegal activities to get this Spartan program done to fight all these like militias and whatnot that are dotted around the galaxy. And the only reason she gets away with it is because the covenant aliens just happen to attack like shortly after and they need them to actually win or stand a chance of winning. So there's this constant tension with this scientific like insane character. who's like kind of a stand-in for Master Chief's mother. And there's kind of like some tension and character going on there. And they try to do it in the show.

But the way they approach it is very, very all over the place. I'm looking at my notes and remembering that the Covenant have like a pet who is like a mole. Like she's like, she's trying to get Master Chief to fuck her so that he've, she can trick him. when she's on the covenant side but she's like he does he fucks her he commits war crime and fucks a prisoner of war the main character yeah while his mom watches what the fuck what kind of show is this it's weird it's so weird yeah they're like trying to inject these like weird like romantic Romeo and Juliet or like like ooh I'm tempted by the enemy uh person woman like I don't know it's a weird angle to have in show yeah because it's over the course of like one episode it's it's so bizarre that they would

decide to do that it's it doesn't feel like halo you know it's it's they more weirdly kind of model the story on something like mass effect where the kind of initial incident that propels the story is like the main character touching some kind of relic some alien relic which then embodies them with some like knowledge or something and then sends them on a quest, which was never really part of Halo. And that's like how this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, enemy character also has some, some link with a relic and it's just like the McGuffin relic chasing thing and they need two relics together so then they can find

with the halo ring is, which is also like a, the beacon. Yeah. Yeah. And man, every, every, every now and again, there's an, like an action episode, like fully action, like more like trying to channel I guess like a multiplayer game or something with like a grunt like jumps on a warthog and it's all this like CG nightmare

the production's really strange yeah because like everything looks kind of like it's like really obviously soundstagey and it's all like overly lit and disgusting looking but it's also obviously spent a lot of money on it like it doesn't look good though sits in such a strange place and they just keep returning back

to like the same sets. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I guess you're just going to get some use out of this one. There are these characters in the original trilogy, the prophets, which they're always like one of my favorite aspects. I think they're really fun, like, these verbose villains that are always like monologuing overcoms.

They're these like religious leaders that just like have their whole, the whole aliens convinced of their plan or whatever in this great journey. And they kind of look, they look okay in the show. but then they changed them to only speak the alien language so you don't get the cool like the cool like monologues from them in the same way it's all just like else about big do it's like oh my god this is fucking yeah just gibberish yeah

they didn't they didn't create like a thorough language this isn't like cling on or anything they're just speaking random sounds but that was like an intentional choice in halo 2 when the story kind of gets way more complicated they make all the aliens like speak English just just for the sake of just delivering the story in a more simplistic way. Every science fiction, property, mass effect, you just imagine you have a translator or whatever, just yeah, like, yeah, yeah, I don't know. So it's just so they change things here.

What, what, she's just evil and just working with them, like, but, like, how did that, how did that get set up? They like, oh, yeah, they explained that she was like, she, there was like a flashback and she got, like, her, like, friend as a kid died or something. And then she was like, I hate humans. They basically, yeah, they're like saved her as a child. Even though like that's another one of the like core law things is that the covenant are supposed to despise humanity because they know at the top that. We will keep this one as a pet.

Yeah. Or the humans are the only thing that can interact with like the halo technology because it was built by like ancient humanity. whatever so there's some genetic link there and they can't figure out how to use it without humans being involved yeah but they know that if if they explain that to their religious base it will undo all of their like brainwashing um so they've got to like convince that the the uh the demons or the i can't remember what phrase they specifically call humanity but it's like this it's like this commentary on you know just like didactic religion um which is really cool and at the base of the story and it's just so fumble when you have like a human character on the other side which i assume is partially for budgetary reasons again because if you had like an elite kind of lead like a villain or something it's just prop the budget up even more it's an expensive thing to have aliens everywhere so the the pet mole lady the evil one that master chief master cheeks uh had sex with um so she she He sends an order for like killing people on the ship.

And then people were like, who did that? And then they play the recording. And then just from the voice alone, Halsey is like, that's it. And she ties things together immediately without any sort of investigation. She's like, you did it. She's like, oh. And like that was like there was no, I don't know, no interrogation. Everything just moves so quick.

Like nothing's developed or given like time to like, sit and kind of increase some tension, whatever, because like... Yeah, like, how many times have you heard her voice, too? Like, what the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of weird.

The whole thing's kind of weird. It's just so... I was able to enjoy this show kind of ironically. It was kind of like a fun, dumb thing. Like, my expectations were not high. Essentially, what they did is they created, like, a really lame show that you would expect to see on the sci-fi channel like 15 years ago

or something. And, you know, a bit better effects than that, obviously. But in terms of, like, writing and, like, acting and stakes, and just, yeah, the repetitive nature of, like, the scenes and how slowly things develop, like, it's just, this is a standard nonsense sci-fi television show, of which there are lots of and many successful ones that a lot of people watch and that we're not aware of, and they exist, but they do successfully. is just kind of one of those. I was enjoying it in a way where like, you know, there's some things in the show where it just

seems like a punchline. You can play it as a drinking game every time they take off their helmet when there's no reason to. Like, the Spartans, they have numbers on their chest, right? Like, why are they taking off their health? Every time they walk into a, like, a conversation with someone, like, take off the helmet. Like, you got speakers, like, literally in fight scenes. or like at points where they're in danger where it's like, okay, I'm just exposing my weak point sort of thing.

Like, hello, it's for the audience to see who's talking. But, I mean, like, would people be that confused, especially fans of the show? Like, even if you're not a fan of the show, just, you know, explain, you know, 117 on the chest plate. That's Master Chief. The other number, like, not only are the numbers different, their armor designs are completely different. Like, they're different colors. Like, everyone's very distinct. You can just show them putting on the helmet earlier.

They have different enough voices, too, that you'd be able to tell them apart. But they just keep taking off their helmets. And it's so funny. Like, every single time it happens, it's hilarious to me. And what I realized... It's like dumb than power ranges. What I realized eventually is that that's probably why

they changed the lore of Cortana being in his helmet to being in his head is so that she can keep yapping to him while his helmet's off. Yeah. That's probably exactly why they, so basically, Ralph, they, in the Halo games, Cortana's a chip that got put in his helmet. And he has to, like, protect her and she just chills in his helmet as an AI.

But in the show, they did this weird thing where they injected her into his brain stem. Like, it was a surgical operation to, like put her in his head for no reason. And it was kind of one of those like, why are they doing this? And then later I realized, oh, it's so he can keep his helmet off the entire show and she can keep yapping at him. Like, that's exactly why they did that. It was so weird. Oh, okay.

Cortano, like the voice thing on the AI, the blue Windows phone lady. Yeah, that's what it's named. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's also part of Halo. I didn't know that. Yeah, that's what it comes from, yeah. Yeah, Windows 10 lady. Oh, interesting. Okay.

Isn't that crazy? Yeah, people know them all for that than the actual franchise. Yeah, that's how I know. Microsoft's like released their own competitor to Siri and Alexa and they just used the existing character from a fucking video game. It's so funny that they did that.

Because I guess they're on the right. It's a Microsoft. We're going to sell all of our Windows phones like this. Cortana. A character that shifted into being a villain by the time they started putting it into like Windows. They love like just taking the villains and like building it into like cool brand identities. So if you have a Windows phone and you have the voice commands turned on

and you play a Halo game with speakers on and they start talking about Cortana, is your phone just going to go crazy? Is it going to be one of those like you're punished for buying the phone and for playing Halo at the same time? I have an iPhone. I know it. I know it from like my computer. Like, my PC has Cortana, obviously.

Oh, wait, yeah, there's probably people listening with speakers on right now. Yeah. Okay, Google, play death grips. Hey, Siri, play death grips. Hey, Cortana, play death grips. All right, we got them all. Hey, Cortana, unsubscribe from Paramount Plus. Man, it just doesn't seem like a good show to me.

And that's why I didn't really watch it. That's more my, you know, I have nothing else, Halo. Because, you know, I feel like a good comparison is Game of Thrones. Like, I wasn't a Game of Thrones fan beforehand. I didn't read those books, but it seemed like not only did people who watched that, like, who read those books, like, enjoyed the show. It was, like, a good show on its own. They'd spent, like, a few years developing that pilot and getting the cast right.

And, like, they clearly put a lot of thought into, like, these really important pieces, which I think really paid off. And, like, I don't know, it's just like, I hear about, like, they were working on the pilot a Game of Thrones. And someone was like, wait, are Cersie and Jamie supposed to be brother and sister? they realized like, oh, that wasn't communicated clearly. So they went back and like reshot things and like they really worked on that pilot in that first season just to make sure it was like really great because they knew like the potential

there. And I don't know. Did that, did the Halo show feel that way? Did you feel like they really put a lot of thought into everything? No. Not at all. It's like kind of the inverse. The showrunners were quoted as saying that they didn't want to take any inspiration from games

so that they could just be more free with you like what was it there were like people that worked on it like the writers that were like yeah we haven't played the games yeah yeah i remember reading that like we didn't want to read any of the books of halo and i was like okay but which it which is a lie yeah there's so much of like the law in there but it's just it's just it's just wrong like it's just it's changed just enough to be irritating to anyone who actually like cares about it punishes the fans yeah is it things that like a casual viewer who has never played HALA before would not get irritated by, but if you if you love the games, you get like insanely irritated by these. I'm like, why are they playing the the covenant door opening sound

on a U.S.C ship? I'm like, you can't just take from the sound library and go like, oh, that looks sounds cool and like put it there. They play the like the, the cloaking power up sound when it turns off too. And I was like, that's not accurate. It's just a little tiny, things they're turning us into those guys. Yeah, it's just like how I feel about a lot of things. Like, if you're a fan of something, you do notice these little things. That's why it's like important to have people who like understand and like... Yeah.

Because fans latch on to that shit. They will know like, oh, that's the sound effect from that. Like, it's a little detail, but those things add up. They do add up and... Yeah, I'm in favor of the idea of changing things from the source material, but I prefer for it to be motivated. seems random, then you're giving off the impression that you don't respect the original property and that you don't care about it. And obviously, I mean, the quotes from the people working on the show

reflect that as well. And so if you're, if you're making a property and you're saying, we don't give a shit about the original, we don't give a shit about the fans, we're just going to make our own thing. And there's no good reason for any of the decisions we're making. I don't know who you're selling this to. You're just just some boomers that are like, oh, my grandson. played Halo before and then they click on it and they go oh this interesting science fiction it just doesn't make sense because they do pepper in like specific fan service like cortana is voiced by jenn taylor yeah which is weird who voices her in the games and then but then halsey's british and then like and it's like so so halsey i'll explain this really quickly ralph so halsey and my voice is cracking

i've been yelling all day yesterday halsey is a character that cortana the ai was created from so they had the same voice in the video games because it was like, oh, we just took my brain and then implanted it into an AI basically. In the show, Halsey's a British person and they keep Cortana as the same voice. And when they start her up and they're doing like this whole like, oh, I am an AI. She says the line, I forget, I'm paraphrasing, but she literally says like, my features and voice have been fine tuned to be appealing to you. And it's like, well, Are you saying British people have annoying voices? Like, what are you saying here?

That's funny. Literally her startup is like, yeah, British people sound stupid. Like, that's basically what happened. Okay. Yeah. Very funny. Yeah, I just, I don't understand it. It's baffling.

Because it's kind of the same approach that they've been doing with the games as well. Because like 3-4-3 were directly attached to this. They're like one of the production companies. Kiki Wolf Kill, I think her name is one of the lead producers. and there's all these like embarrassing quotes of her defending decisions like chief fucking the enemy in front of his mom and whatever and all this yeah like his mom watches katana watching yeah it's so strange because she's in his brain like with his like they didn't it would be funny if they wrote like

a part where he's like Cortana sleep mode or something like I don't know but that didn't happen She's just like watching him have you know commit sexual misconduct at the very least Just yeah Rape maybe Yeah There's a couple of moments like that

Oh yeah he's a virgin too he lost his virginity in front of his mom That was like a part of yeah He'd never had sex before that point This is crazy Yeah hilarious that's supposed to be like part of Part of Master Chief's like law is that like he is a virgin he shouldn't fuck that's like a cool part of him he's supposed to be this like introverted quiet pale guy who just lives in a suit and he's kind of like as this

relationship with an AI yeah that was kind of the love interest of the first few games is like the the female interest you know archetype character whatever you want to call it it was the AI chip that was helping him throughout you know battles and complete his missions and all that shit you know she was like sexualized to some degree she was like a naked blue character or whatever but um it was you know it was somewhat of a unique and interesting angle compared to other traditional uh love interest characters that are injected into things like i don't know it was somewhat unique it felt interesting but but yeah like now it kind of devalues that in a way and I guess maybe they're just not going for that.

Like, maybe there will be no indication or no implication at all of any kind of, you know, hinting at love interest between Master Chief and Cortana because now he's... Yeah. Yeah, now he's just fucking someone's pet. Even though it's normally one of the main plot points is like, Cortana is somewhere. We need to get to her and save her. They stole my brain mass. Yeah, in the games, in the games, he'll leave the chip somewhere and be like, oh, gotta go back. The flood got the chip.

Yeah, he left it there. Sounds very weird. There's no time to explain. Just go. Very odd show. That was kind of funny. Yeah, I would fix that part of if it was being translated to a film. There's got to be a better reason why he just leaves Cortada there.

But, he, um, they, like, never show a height. Halo ring either. Which is lame. They didn't, yeah. Like, that was part of what was so cool about the games is they, you know, they made the games seem from a visual standpoint way more impressive and way more expansive and immersive by just having, you know, you look up in the sky. And it's just a painted part of the backdrop.

But instead of like clouds on one portion of the, you know, on one degree, however many degrees of your vision, you'd see the entire ring that, like, you can, you know, keep panning up or whatever, tilting your camera angle up and then looking over at the other side. And you, it's just, it's, it was like a very intelligent, creative decision for, uh, environment and aesthetic, like, just visual game design. It was, yeah, yeah, it creates scope. Yeah. That's probably the entire reason why it was a ring planet is just to have that cool visual in the game, basically.

Yeah, it's a cool aesthetic. But yeah, then they don't give a shit. But the Halo rings also, like, they are the story? That is the story of Halo. It's the Halo rings. They're big, like, power weapons. They're big, like, nukes in space. Like, that is the story of Halo.

And the Halo show doesn't have them in it. They're trying to find them. Season two. You got to wait. But there's, that's another thing, though. is that an integral part of Halo the 3-4-3 just hate for some reason is the horror angle, the flood.

Yeah. Why are they so averse to it? I guess maybe they'll build to it and then maybe want a bigger budget to like inject into the show. There were like worms or something in this one. What was that about? Yeah, those are supposed to be hunters.

Yeah. I forgot about that. Yeah. Thank you. Someone explained that in chat. I'm sure they have a plan, like got to, they have like a plan of like season two and three. like, oh, we'll do the flood and like season three is like the dark note and like, you know,

yeah, maybe. I'm sure they've got the whole thing mapped out. I'm sure it's so much like good TV out there, you know? I'm going to watch it. It was really funny. Oh yeah, yeah, I got loads of humor. It was perfect because like... What, season two of this?

I tried watching it by myself and I could, I like gave up at about like, I don't know, 20 minutes into it. And I was like, this, I'm never going to watch this. I was having a miserable time. And then I started my YMS watchalongs channel where I live stream myself going through certain shows and that was one where I was like, okay, this is perfect because I can kind of like

riff on it, you know, with a Twitch chat. And that was the environment where I was able to continue watching the show. I would not have finished the show otherwise. It's perfect for something like that. Yeah, I was, yeah, that was a much more enjoyable experience. You make me interested in seeing, we're playing the games anyway, not watching the show. Oh, please play the first one.

Play the first one. Co-op? First three. With somebody who else has never played it or something? Yeah. Yeah, the Master Chief Collection has it. I would say do old graphics. Yeah, there's those.

But I don't know. It's your choice. Oh, yeah. Definitely on Halo 1. Well, I have, like, the original Xbox I've been playing with recently. And I do like playing games on, like, that console just because that's like... You have an original Xbox? Yeah, I've been playing, like...

I've actually been playing Blade 2 of the game now. I'll get it. I'll order eBay. eBay it. If in eBaying, like, a bunch of games. I think I have like six extra copies or something. But like, I do, I do like the console just because that is the way, like, the developer planned for you to play it and see the graphics, you know? And when you're playing on like an emulator or whatever, it's like, it's slightly different. It's cleaner. Do you have like a, do you have like a tube TV? Yeah, well, not a tube TV, but it's like, you know, a TV with one of those shitty impets or whatever. Like, now you have an HTML.

The Scott Plow. but it is part of like the aesthetic of those games I feel and that's why I do like playing on like a console even if you have to pay for a disc or whatever I got a bunch of old concerts yeah it is it is cool it will I'm definitely more interested in the games than I am like ever watching the show because it sounds like a mess like you guys are describing things and I'm just like I don't know what I'm supposed to get out of the show yeah are there any like good characters like no no master chief and and Siri yeah There's tiny bits of conflict that are taken from the lore of Halo that I can see being compelling to people who haven't experienced the games before.

Because he put that in a show and it's like, oh, there are some compelling elements. Like the fact that all the Spartans were like kidnapped as children and like repressed memories of mind wipe and like. Oh, yeah. I do know that. All that shit. Like there's some stuff to work with there from a narrative standpoint that I can just imagine like, oh yeah. If this is someone's first time experiencing it, then that would be like pretty cool. and yeah

they're like somewhat compelling elements to it but if you're a fan of the games it's just so much worse it's uh yeah it's not well put together in anyway really but then it's also it's trying to be like an action show yeah and I kind of talked to

all the ads are those CG scenes they do like they do the doom thing they do the doom thing where it's like showing the POV like oh yeah alluding to the video game like it's so cool He's so dumb. Guns so weird. Just imagine him like putting his assault rifle up to like his eyes.

Like just imagine the wide shot. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, ah, it's so frustrating. And like, it was episode five where they,

they kind of unleash their, uh, their big first action scene where, like, this base is like suddenly attacked by Covenant Cruiser and there's like banshees flying around. And I was, I was like,

I was like scream laughing at that sequence. Cause I was like, man, if this is how, they like when it adapts the the kind of words that I'd read on the page or like imagine with like the stuff I'd read about the law and like oh my god maybe maybe some of this stuff should just be well should just be left alone left to the imagination because seeing master chief like jack a banchi and then crash it into a phantom in the show it's not like it's not like it

doesn't look as cool or like it pays off and quite as how you'd like imagine especially when the music sucks. Yeah, a genuine, 50% of its identity as that music. And without it being in there, it's just,

I've seen a few, like, just a few scenes from the show, just a little tweaks, putting in some of that official music. And it does, it does at least make it feel more apt, more appropriate.

Yeah, it's so generic. Yeah, the trailer has, like, some remix of a song and the top comments, like, why don't you use the Halo soundtrack? Yeah, it's there. It exists. Play the old music.

God damn It's not like they don't own it There's barely any remakes Or interpretations that do that Like the Silent Hill movie Is like one of very few Where it's like oh we're just taking some of the songs From like Silent Hill 2 and 3

And like oh shit it works You know you have the tone and the feel It feels like the games to a certain degree It's not a great movie But it's made by somebody who actually gave a shit About the franchise That's the big difference Right why are we giving these properties

The people who don't care about them Give them something else. Make a not halo. I don't know. Yeah. Give it to somebody who gives a shit. Because you're basically making not halo anyway.

You're making something more frustrating. Who's it for? More annoying. Well. So. Oh, boy. Well, um, did you watch it on Paramount Plus?

Paramount Plus only came out like a few weeks ago in the UK. So, um, yes. You know what's really funny? So Paramount Plus has like, a couple different tiers for subscription level. And so the most expensive one is like you don't get ads.

But on the basic one, which is what my boyfriend's roommate had when I was visiting and I was like by myself for a few hours that day. So I just put it on. I was like, oh, they have Paramount Plus. And I didn't know it was like the ad one. They had, oh, the amount of ads that they have is just so funny. like literally just like right at the beginning of I wrote this down it was so weird um yeah three it'll go like three out of three and just like one of them's like for Walmart

and then the third one was like a title card animation that said just said Paramount plus original and then that exact same title card played again right after it as part of the show so it was like this the same animation twice in a row with one of them being an ad apparently which was like really weird it just seemed it was so bizarre because the episodes aren't that long either they're pretty short for the most part 30 40 minutes each yeah I think I knew immediately in that first episode when they show the like the the intro that they play in each uh each episode and they don't play any halo music it's this weird like just toned down super generic it just sounds like a some like pre-made thing on a license-free website or something like a generic sci-fi

sounds and that's like how they introduce and like the intro is like a show is supposed to set some kind of tone you know the soprano is breaking bad these these intro is a classic the game of thrones yeah another good one yeah there's a lot of great tv out there is just what i was saying and especially now there's like so much competition so yeah and yeah you really need to to do something to stand out. Yeah. And this doesn't stand out to me. It's such a time commitment.

And it's not worth it. It's not worth watching 10 hours of something. That's just like, that's okay. It doesn't even sound terrible. It's like, yeah, it's fine. Yeah, it's, they've stripped the personality from the original property and everything that makes it great. And they've produced a very generic sci-fi show with, you know, some names of characters

from Halo, basically. Yeah. Just a boring show. Which is using the Halo IP and imagery to try and sell it. That's the weird thing. Yeah. There's a lot of talking. Like what?

Why did you? A lot of nonsense. Yeah. Not compelling. A lot of cringe. A lot of cringe. A lot of cringe. So, yeah.

Yeah, it's funny. I'll give it that. It's funny. Not an intentional way. Butchats, courtesy of Roll Renee. Um, yeah, I give this. a four out of ten. I know some people might think that that's pretty generous,

but I think in the grand scheme of things, if I were to imagine not being like a halo, like a lot of these things are just like, why aren't you following the lore? And it's just a lot of really annoying things. But separated from the original property, it's just like a generic kind of funny science fiction,

sci-fi programming style television show. It just seems like, just another one from the pile sort of thing. And it was funny enough to watch along with and riff on it. So I will be watching season two. I enjoyed riffing on it. I had fun with it. I will too.

Oh, hey, watch it. Yeah. Yeah. I do admit, I cannot divorce it from the source material. I can't just mentally. I can't do it. Like, the whole thing is just like built off. All the imagery, all the characters, all the names are the same.

But then they'll just leave out things like, why is Johnson not in it? Like, if you want fans to like it, why would you not do these kind of things? I feel like if they just had like Johnson in there, had the actual music in there, and he just took his helmet off less. Or never. Way more people would be happy. Or never, never, yeah. Yeah.

That's the correct answer. You can just have, like, you made an entire fucking, like, Ryan Gosling in the movie drives, just barely speaks, you know? You can have a stoic character Yeah You can still have that And write around them And have them do cool shit

There's a way of doing it Yeah But then they're like But we want to make a generic sci-fi thing And so it has to be a lot of conversation About nothing Padding Yeah

Yeah as far as a rating I don't know One star It really sucks It's not good Yeah try harder Try harder But yeah

It's to be expected it at this point from 3-4-3. Yeah. The way they treat this franchise. Thanks. That makes me kind of worried for them, the Lord of the Rings show. I don't think it's the same.

That's Amazon. Oh, that's not going to be good. Yeah, it's like, I feel it's going to be like the same thing as this, like very bland. It has a bit more money going into it, but yeah. Mm-hmm. We'll probably have the same issues. Yeah.

There's this growing streaming show problem where they need content. And so they're not going to rush through any story or like wrap things up in a satisfying way because they want more seasons. So it's just full of fluff. All these shows full of fluff, Stranger Things, full of fluff, Halo full of fluff. They wanted to go like seven, eight seasons. Yeah. And they've already told the Lord of the Rings stories.

Yeah. And you take seasons where it's like, okay, all of this could have been communicated in four episodes and you made it 10 episodes. Yeah. That's annoying. just to keep people subscribed yeah it's part of the business model and it's ruining it yeah so that they always have things

that they need to keep watching yeah I can't cancel my Netflix I haven't seen all the stranger things yeah especially it's 20 hours long all right um we watched a movie uh I recommended a movie spoiler discussion

for a movie uh it was 12 monkeys and uh it's directed by Terry Gilliam who also has directed such classics as Monty Python and the Holy Grail and Brazil.

Brazil. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Very versatile director. And this particular film stars Bruce Willis. It's got Christopher Plummer in it. And it's a sci-fi time travel movie where he has to gather information on the origins of a virus that kills what like 90% of the population or

something yes like billions yeah so he's a prisoner and he goes back in time to try and figure shit out very enjoyable movie for me what do you what do you think about it yep I agree yeah Terry Gilliam got his starting comedy that's like you did really goofy comedy and with like Monty Python and whatever in the show and yeah this is uh this is like a up thriller, very plot-driven. Like you said, science fiction. And it's great.

It's another, he's a great director. Everything he makes is great. Not everything. Well, not recently. I didn't like the Don Quixote movie. Yeah. Don Quixote, as I said, because I was, whatever. But like, yeah, this is a great movie, I feel.

There's a line towards the end where they're watching the, the, like, Hitchcock Marathon in the cinema. having like a little conversation and Bruce Willis has like a really good line about how it's kind about the like subjectivity of movies and how every time you watch a movie you've changed as a person so it's almost like watching a new movie every time and that's what my experience was kind of like because I watched this like a long time ago yeah and I remember enjoying it but being a little bit confused by some parts and definitely not enjoying it as much as Brazil but I really really got a lot out of um this rewatch of it

really solid sci-fi love the production of how kind of scrappy it is with the like how limited it was fairly small budget like last episode we're talking about Bruce Willis

taking pay cuts I don't think he was even paid for this movie up front oh wow he had to he only got money after the fact sorry once it was a commercial hit and I kind of underestimated

how kind of popular this movie is because just going off like how many ratings it has on IMDB it's got like 600K compared to like Brazil's 200k. Wow. But I guess it's that Bruce Willis like in the 90s just actually just on fire picking the right

project. It's a very 90s movie. I do like that about the film like particularly I guess the flashbacks or the flash forwards like whatever you want to call them. Yeah. The editing and the music there. But I do like that about the movie. Like I said, the production is great like the visuals and lots of like variety.

variety like the whole um the first part of this movie in the mental hospital that's such like a great sequence a great sequence of scenes like that could be its own movie basically yeah but it isn't that's just like the first half hour or whatever and then it keeps going and it does all these things that are like you know very visually fun and yeah it's it's just the plot is good it's very story driven and it's very different for him as a director. And yeah, the time travel here makes sense. I don't know if you wanted to say Adam, but it's like one of those few time travel movies.

It's actually like, when you think about it, it all ties together like kind of perfectly. You got to far-fetched a little, but it does. It feeds into itself, which is something, yeah. So if you're going to change the past, the past should be the existing past. the changes that you make should have already happened. And I've said that this is one of like two movies I can think of where the time travel is entirely consistent. On this newest rewatch, I realize that there was one part of the movie that it does not

follow that rule. So I unfortunately have to take it off the list. What part was it? At the end of the movie, when the other guy gives him a gun, he says, we got your message so he left the message on the voicemail saying it's not the it's not the 12 monkeys those are just some animal rights activists and then the other guy comes back he's like oh you're a hero we found out it's not the 12 monkeys it's like okay well then that would have happened beforehand because he already did that sort of like it's the one thing that doesn't feed into like everything

else that takes place in the movie everything else that he does is something that before he did it was already something that existed in the future because he did do it in the past. Does that make sense? But this is just, this is the one example of something where it seems to have altered the future in real time, which is, does, it creates like a different. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's just like little things like that.

That doesn't take away for the experience for me. It's like a tenant. Like, okay, so, so like what happens to what happens to bullets and like, and what happens to like reverse bullets and tenant? do they like disappear like but whatever they go back into the ammunition clip like it's just like one of those things you got a far fetch it really doesn't get bogged down in all that the kind of like mechanics of the story because they kind of build in the kind of unreliable narrator type thing that too the main character like isn't necessarily sure like what is even real and what is

at a certain point it's like a big question throughout the movie that that's a that's a layer to this film that makes it so much more compelling than a time travel try to save the world from a virus movie is the the the angle where it could all just be in his head you know and it's teasing that throughout the movie I think it's pretty conclusive that it's not by the end of it I think it definitely leans into that yeah I agree it's not as ambiguous as it could have ended but I like that there is that layer to the film where you could be like hey wait hold on maybe he was dreaming. Maybe he is just crazy.

Maybe he belonged in that institution. It's just an extra thing to chew on, and it makes it so much better, much more compelling. What did you think about the whole kind of steampunk aesthetic of the future? It's kind of reminded me of Brazil a little bit with the, just the kind of funky look to everything. That's his style.

I like Terry Gilliam's, like interpretations of, what's the word? dystopian futures. Yeah. I let, yeah, there,

there definitely were some Brazil vibes to a lot of things going on. I love the, uh, that like, round display of all the television sets that the scientists use and they just get it right up in his face. And I love how animated, uh,

they say their lines. They're all like taking turns right after each other, completing each other's sentences. Like, uh, you've got what you've always wanted. A full pardon. Like,

they're like they've all rehearsed it and it's so cartoonish yeah but it's supposed to be i love his like weird absurdist takes on dystopian future in this like kind of corporate like uh way that characters express themselves in the future you know it's it's great yeah yeah which is like mimicked in the the mental hospital with the when he's like being inspected by behind the desk by the the crew Yeah. Which also adds to the confusion of like, is he just like making this up in his head? Yeah. Right.

There are some great parallels. He gets hosed down in both scenarios. Yeah. Yeah. There was that reincorporation. I believe it had the same shot just the slow dolly forward. Mm-hmm. But yeah, very nice purposeful reincorporation in this film.

Mm-hmm. It's a great story. Like, there's a lot you can do with time travel. I feel it's interesting. Like the company basically starting the whole thing. by sending Bruce Wells back, they're trying to stop the virus or whatever, but they inadvertently start the 12 monkeys and all this by accidentally sending Bruce Wells back. And yeah, it's just like a fun, it's just like a fun way to like tell a story and like play with the audience and their expectations

of like what they expect to happen. And so, so the future is like there's a virus or whatever, like ends the world. Do they ever stop that technically or is that just going to happen? No, it happens for sure. So they, They weren't even trying to necessarily prevent it by sending them back in time. They were trying to learn about the virus to like discover a cure for it and use like the original blah, blah, blah to make like a... Yeah. Yeah. But just what you're expecting from a narrative like, oh, they're going to use time travel to save the world.

But like they don't. Yeah. Like that's awesome. Like that's such like a morbid and like great way of like telling a story, I think. Like the world's going to end. There's no way stopping it. It solves a lot of potential problems too. We're like, you know, in any other scenario, like, I don't know, Mass Effect 3, like, the character, like, decides to do some love interest stuff.

It's like, shouldn't you be stopping the Reapers? Or it's like, in this one, not only is there like the crazy element, but it's like he's not really not until the end of the movie at least. He's not really trying to prevent the virus from happening. He's just trying to discover more about it and, you know, figure things out in his own head. Yeah. I wasn't sure if it's just like the optimist in me interpreting the very end with the woman saying that she works in insurance and also being like one of the board members from

you know the future if that was supposed to be like a little nod to is that like a double meaning thing is she she's saying in the moment she works in insurance she's saying she was the insurance like after the fact of Bruce Willis's like plan failing and that her being there with the virus guy maybe she got the information on the virus and took that back with her seeing that she was from the board. Maybe that's an interesting way to interpret it.

You can also interpret it as like she's trying to ensure the future of humanity in the future. Yeah, because she wasn't like, did they de-age her with makeup or anything? Like was that trying to imply that that was like a A previous version of her that would later grow up? I didn't notice any obvious de-aging, but I definitely noticed, like, oh, that's the same, that's the same character.

Yeah. So the question I would be wondering is, like, did they send her back in time? Or is that her before she was assigned? Yeah, that's the question. Is she a fraud? So I guess it's up to interpretation. Did she lie? Like, what is that?

Yeah, that's kind of a, yeah, I didn't think about that other angle. That's interesting. Yeah. Those, those questions are better left vague. I think that makes the story. So it is kind of vague. Yeah, I like that there's not a concrete answer. More interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. Time travel narratives can fall apart if you start, like, giving out too much information. Yeah. And, like, yeah, it's just, like, all the right things. Like, it's just, it's a tight story and it's, like, it's not focused on, like, just the time travel. There's all these other things going on, like, the visuals and, like, the performances and the characters state. Yeah.

You know, like, the relationship between Bruce Willis and, like, the woman character, Madeline. Stowe. Like, there's a lot going on. And Brad Pitt's performance, who's really great in this movie. Like, I fucking love him in this movie. He's awesome. It might be my favorite of his performances, honestly. He got nominated for an Oscar.

One of my favorites, yeah. So different for him. He's playing like a fucking cook with a lazy eye. Yeah. It's great. It's like... The Ticks. Tyler Durdon before Tyler Durdon. Yeah.

You know, like really good. So animated. And it's a great misdirect. Yeah. Like his whole character. Yeah, it really is. I love the, um, Terry Gilliam always has really great

cinematography when it comes to like what lenses he's using and how close they're going to be to the subject. And what I love about his movies is that it's not just a random like, okay, this shot's in here to fill your quota. It's done so in a purposeful way. Like there's there's more frequent uses of wider lenses and close angles in the mental institution, the Dutch angles also, there's a lot of those.

Like, the visuals are complementing the unstable environment and the unstable characters by having unstable shots. And it's not, you know. They could have done something like heightening the kookiness. You know, handheld shaky cam or something. But, you know, Terry Gilliam's style, it reminded me a bit of, yeah, Brazil and fear and loathing. He does those things quite a bit, yeah. Yeah, just like the design of like the time travel machine and the chair and the,

the monitors, you know, all that with the eyes on them or whatever. I like that it doesn't get too bug down with like trying to over-explain how the time travel works. Yeah. It doesn't really show him disappearing or appearing anywhere. It kind of just, you know, we're left to interpret him disappearing in one scene with the, I guess they just threw a stone in the creek for that ripple effect. Very practical, but effective. And then every time he comes back, you don't see him like, oh, I'm in a subway naked or something. It's always like a day later, however many, you know, however much time later where he just, he's in a scenario.

He's, you know, being taken to the mental hospital or trying to kidnap the psychiatrist or, yeah, we don't need that information for the story to work. Yeah. And it looks very like flimsy. It's supposed to be kind of like a new machine. why it fucks up and sends him back to the wrong time. Oh, yeah. Like, that's part of the story. And so, like, the visuals, the visuals complement it.

Like, it looks, it doesn't look very, you know, safe. No. You know, that's what's great about it. It looks unstable. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why, again, he's a prisoner of his character's like a convict. It's exactly why they're using prisoners.

Yeah, because it's too dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's really well done. every part of it and telling that story. Yeah. Even when they're like tone setting at the beginning where Bruce Willis is in that like wacky, like inflatable suit thing going around collecting animals and then how the animals like come back towards the end with the whole 12 monkeys like reveal.

I was just so glad that it's like, oh, real animals in a movie. Yeah, that too. There's CG bullshit's to be seen. It's all like real. Yeah. All of it's real. No CGI at all. Like, you know, I really like that.

Yeah. some green screens that's about it. Yeah. Yeah, I need notice that a couple times. Yeah, a couple. Yeah, I don't know. It's a very tight narrative. I think maybe it could have been like 10 minutes shorter, maybe,

but can't really complain too much. It's compelling enough that it, you know. Yeah, I didn't really feel it sagging anywhere. Yeah. Yeah, I think it flows really well. There's other bits of reincorporation like, when he turns on the radio as he's kidnapping the psychiatrist and it's like talking about the Florida Keys and earlier when he tried to escape the the man next to the door was like oh you should

you should go to the Florida Keys it's lovely this time of year just like tiny bits of yeah I think I think reincorporation works particularly well in films where a character is trying to determine reality and is unsure of their own reality? Yeah. Because then it's like, okay, well, what is this like an interpretation of something else? Is, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Just that Brad Pitt character really kept me going through the whole movie. He's great. Every time they cut to him, he's, he's really great. And yeah, Bruce Wells is great. And it's like all these characters. Like, you really care about them. You care about what's happening. And the story just makes sense. Yeah. It's, it all just like ties into itself very,

very well. It's very well thought out. There's all sorts of like memorable bick. characters that are only in like one or two scenes. Sure. The guy at the hotel or whatever who calls up inquiring about they got all sorts of like memorable characters that just briefly introduced alongside that core cast. His, um, his relationship with the psychiatrist, um, in that kind of, you know, love interest angle that they're doing. As the film starts out, it feels really tropey.

It feels like kind of like, oh, you're just checking a box on the list sort of thing. but by the end of it it feels like okay well you know this this is justified as its own existence I love how her character transforms throughout the movie I love how she starts going crazy and not just like oh I'm questioning and I believe him sort of thing like that's been done before but what what makes it really fun to watch are those moments where she's like take his money like after he like knocks the guy out like we need cash yeah she goes crazy right It's very funny. Yeah.

Yeah, I love that. Yeah. It's such a great way for the character to go in the story. Mm-hmm. Yeah, because it feeds into that character is she has like a presentation at a certain part. Mm-hmm. And I researched like what it was she was like talking about and it's this Greek mythology Cassandra metaphor, which is just a, it relates to a purpose. person whose valid warnings or concerns are disbelieved by others.

So there's like an irony to her preaching about this and kind of joining onto this cause. And yeah. Yeah. Right. I love any time myth is injected in to any story like this. And yeah, that's what Brad Pitt's character was kind of talking about earlier, where he was like, people decide who the crazies are. You know, he was telling the story about the person who discovered germs.

Yeah. It's like, there's these invisible things on us, man. They're making a sick. Draw my burger. on the ground. Yeah. Yeah. With the real crazies.

Yeah. Yeah. Very great movie. Visually, very well done. I love the wide angle lenses. Yeah, like you said, Terry Gilliam, that's like trademark of his. It's, you know, visually very strong movie. I love the soundtrack, too.

Mm-hmm. I'm not familiar with the composer, but I, it's not only catchy and memorable. It's memorable. Yeah. It helps the film flow. it adds to the emotional buildup without feeling like manipulative. It's not like a it's not like a strong tone in either direction. It's kind of ambiguous but like catchy and fun and not overly fun, not overly emotional,

but like somewhere in between. Yeah. Or it's like it's got a great rhythm to it. And the fact that they use accordion, like try to try to think of a single other movie theme that is successful and uses accordion. Like there's not a lot. incorporating that instrument into like a score of a film, it makes it feel really unique.

It's really cool. Yeah, yeah. Sounds a little bit mad. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's compliments, like a scene like that. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm going to look up the composer and see what else they've done, actually. If you guys seen anything about the, like, a short, this was supposedly loosely based on? La Jette. I haven't. I haven't seen it yet. No, there's a show that they made after. Yeah. But it said inspired by, I don't think it's really, uh,

Yeah, I found it on Vimeo and kind of scrolled through some of it. Yeah, it seems interesting. But it does seem like 12 Monkeys was largely, uh, largely original for the most part. Like, apparently Terry Gilliam didn't even watch it until he made the movie. So, yeah. So, yeah, this, this composer was like a, maybe like 10, 10, 20 film scores through 1990s.

Yeah. And then, yeah, I guess. Not really, not really a whole lot of them. But for this film, it really worked. Like, damn. Yeah, very memorable. I loved the theme.

And it didn't feel overplayed. It played just enough times where it was like, yeah, I'm glad this is returning, you know? I'm like getting back into the groove here. It didn't feel spammed. And then the composition itself, it wasn't like overly simplistic to the point where it was just three notes like The Batman, or it's just like, oh, like stop playing it.

It just, it was, yeah, complimented the film very well, I think. Just trying to imagine like this and then the previous movie we talked about and then like Pulp Fiction are all like released within the same like year and a half basically. Yeah, he was on fire. Very different movies. Yeah. I'd say Pulp Fiction's intentionally like not a very 90s movie. and then this is a very 90s movie to me it's just like all the

the way it's told and yeah I do like that about it and that is crazy about the ratings it has an 8.0 in IMDB it was 611,000 like I had no idea it was like that yeah

like loved you know and he got some Oscar noms too which it deserved Brad Pitt it's a classic it's a classic and it deserves to be a classic it's a cult classic cult classic Is it called?

I don't know how well it's in. Kind of. I don't know how well it did. Let's see the box up. Yeah, it's Bruce Willis and Brad Pitt led. Yeah, Oscars. Still like, well, 168 million. All right.

It did fine. But compared to like movies today, I feel like that's, it's like humble. No, like World War Z made half a billion dollars. Like for Brad Pitt, this is like a small movie. I wonder what the budget was. Apparently, around $30 million. Wow. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah.

I mean, inflation or whatever, but that's probably like 50, 60 million today. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's good. And it looks like, it looks really good. Like there's no CGI, barely any. Yeah, the sets are great. The caliber of story and performances and all of those sets and the practical effects that they were doing, it's like, okay, yeah, you get some value out of that for sure. You definitely see where the money went. Yeah, paying the people like Christopher Plummer and...

What is your favorite Bruce Willis performance? This is up there. Oh. Mm-hmm. I do really like him in this. Probably Die Hard. Die Hard's my favorite character that he plays, but I don't know if it's my favorite performance from him.

I don't know. This is definitely up there. Because this is definitely up there. Yeah. I would have to be persuaded with another film to, you know, compare. it to to. Yeah, it just turns out how different it is, especially from him, you know. Yeah. Like in Pulp Fiction, he's kind of like a, he's like a strong guy, die hard. He's the strong macho guy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, he fits the role of like a convicts or whatever. Like,

he looks like a tough guy. But then, yeah, they just kind of, they fling him around. They fling him around the whole movie, like, gets beaten down. He's like, drooling. You know, it is, it's funny and it humbles him. Yeah, it humbles him a bit. Yeah, you make you, like, relate to him to him. him. I like how they portrayed this character in terms of like writing because we're told about his violent history and he seems to have a good enough head on his shoulders that he's, you know, he doesn't really act out violently for a while. But then when he's put in a situation where he has to defend himself with those, what, where were they gang members like underground? And he just kills them. And he's just like, just fucking wailing on them. It comes out and bursts. It's such a

satisfying way to finally get that element to finally get like oh yeah so he is fucking violent and it's not really like an action movie but it's it there's a you know it gets there at a satisfying way it's like it kind of is yeah it is kind of but it's kind of a thriller it's kind of a comedy you know like it isn't just one thing it like bounces all this shit like really well science fiction yeah and you know he does like die at the end there is like this you know he's the bad guy he dies like okay he like I guess gets some kind of like learn some kind of lesson or

something like he doesn't get away with just being a bad guy you know um but he does like save the world or does some dumps does something to save like you know yeah no i really like how they handle that whole um yeah the whole like dream aspect where you keep seeing the kid and you're unsure like where's where's this going and it's like different each time he remembers the dream it's like little details that are different and then it comes full circle in the airport. Yeah. He watches himself die.

Yeah. That was great. Yeah. You should have shot the kid. What do you think about the poster? Because I've always been put off by the poster, I've got to admit. It's not one of my faves. Because I'd always see it like when scrolling through IMDB.

Yeah, I'll skip that one. What was this like Bruce Willis? It's like what, cyborg? He's got like a red like dot coming out. Yeah. It does look kind of generic. Yeah, it's a generic mid-90s poster. Yeah.

I think it's fine. Which I'm sure sold the film. But the, yeah, and the, like, joined faces. And the way, like, Brad Pitt looks on it, you would never guess that his character is, like, a mental patient. Yeah. He just looks like Brad Pitt on other posters. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, that is a kind of a bad poster. I've never thought about that. He looks like a cyborg. You're right. What the fuck? Yeah, I don't know. That doesn't take away from me. No, it doesn't take anything away from the movie, but.

It's just marketing material. Yeah, it's hard with posters. Especially when, like, comparing it to Brazil's poster. I love Brazil's poster. So, like, elaborate and colorful. I feel like a lot of posters are just bad. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

But, yeah, it's hard to make a good poster. It's hard to, like, capture that. Because the movie needs a poster, right? You need to have, like, some kind of image to, like, promote it. Even if it's just a still frame from the movie with text, like, you know, you need some kind of poster. It needs to, like, communicate something. Yeah. They could have done a better job with the design.

But if it ever got a criterion, we would see a better cover probably. Yeah, Cyborg Willis. Maybe. Yeah, yeah. This should have a criterion. Yeah, it would be nice. They've got other Gilliam films on Criterion, Brazil and Time Bandits and Fear and Loathing. Fear Loathing, yeah.

It would be sick to have a Criterion Monty Python thing. That'd be dope. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if they have the rights to certain ones. Yeah, I love fear and loathing too. I just, I like all of his movies. I, you know, so I like this. Pretty clear for me.

Like, this is something I'm going to like, you know. And I'm giving this one, a 10 out of 10. Not flawless, not completely flawless, but, fuck. I mean, like, it's existed for long enough. And it's a, it's a classic that deserves to have that, uh, that status. It's a very enjoyable, well-crafted, compelling movie with plenty of elements to appreciate and love about it. A lot of very talented people. Alex?

Yeah, I think I'm just a smidge under. Like, it's nearly there. This is a four and a half star nine out of ten for me. It's just, yeah, I really, really enjoyed revisiting it, how unconventional and strange. the narrative is, but how all that comes together at the end. I'm just going to reserve the Gillian 10 out of 10 to be Brazil for me for now. We'll see, though, on rewatches because I'll watch this again. It's very good.

I have Brazil at a five. I have Fear and Loathing at a five. Yeah. I don't have any issues with this film, really. The cornyness is inherently part of the 90s aesthetic to me, and it helps the movie. It tells the story it needs to like very clearly Like I was never confused Like I am with some other science fiction movies

It's very clear I would give it a 10 also This is a classic for me I gave it a 9 at first And yeah this is a 10 10 out of 10 We're 5 out of 5 So thank all right

Bazinga Thanks Gilliam Thanks Gilliam bye Moving on Yeah we didn't have anything really bad to say about it Which is That's good for like I think that's good.

Ambitious and it works. Great story. Fun, entertaining, really well made, great performances, like everything, plot-driven, you know, great story and great visuals to compliment it. Like, it's not just one. Yeah. Like, you know, everything's working. It's a nice example of like underplayed sci-fi as well.

Yeah. You know, when you think sci-fi, you think of 2001, you're big, like, Star Wars, like, space operas. but this is like a more quiet kind of intentional stranger. It's not even like low budget indie. Like it's not like primer, you know? It's like it's still. Yeah, it's like a nice in-between. Yeah, it just is reserved and intelligent and respectful about what it's doing.

Yeah, it's one of those in-between budget movies. Like it's not a big budget. It's not a $2 million movie either. Yeah. They don't really make movies like that anymore or they're very rare. I know. Yeah. And those are some of the best movies, those like high.

concept they have the money to do like these really impressive things yeah it's really good story like I said like it's science fiction but it's also comedy it's also action thriller like it's just like so much going on in there like the mental asylum like element like the first half hour it's it's really great it's a lot of fun yeah I'm glad we've done this like unofficial Bruce Willis kind of trilogy of episodes. It just kind of reminded me like what is so good about him. That range he has despite being that big draw action star. And like he made this film possible.

Like it couldn't have come together. Yeah, he sold it. Yeah. Yeah. He needed to lead it. Him and Pitt more so, more so him though. Yeah. All right.

Question time. Awesome. Let's do some questions from the Sardonicast community then. If you want to leave your own questions, head over to the suggestion. question thread on the subreddit and ask us whatever you feel like, just like Pat Pat X reader did. I was going to start us off here. Have you guys heard of this Literally Me movie's concept? Some people online have decided that any movie with a main character they identify with,

generally lone as disconnected from society, you know, like 90% of movie protagonists, is in the same genre of literally me. So Drive and Amelie share a genre, also American Psycho and Shrek, I guess. Any thoughts on this? I don't think I've ever felt that way watching a character in a movie. No. No. Wait, what?

You say it again? Like, what? I don't think I, well, so people project themselves onto characters and be like, this is like me. This is literally me. Even though, you know, a lot of the times it's like these, there's no, there's, I don't know how much I believe that when a person says that. I, I project myself on a blade. I'm not like a black guy. It's just like.

You like certain qualities, but like these qualities are like any guy on a poster, like any military man on a poster like or whatever. Like when you see an action movie, like, you want like a guy to like impose themselves in that character. Like, oh, I'm cool. I'm the one with the... Yeah, Master Chief behind a helmet. Yeah, Master Chief, right?

Like, that's perfect. If they have a mask on, that's even better. Because like, you know, that's like in video games. Like, you can customize your guy to look your way because you can make them look like you or someone you want to be. Like, I feel like that's. such a part of like films. Not every film, but like certain kinds of films.

If you're going for like a certain kind of vibe, like you want to be John Wick. You want to be like something like that. You don't want to be Steven Seagall. That's why this movie suck because it's like a fat old guy. Like you don't want to be him. I think a lot of people wind up watching films and there are some like subtle qualities to characters, you know, like Ryan Gosling and his stoicism and drive. And, you know, like, I'm tough, but I'm moral.

and righteous and I do what's right and sort of thing. I think some people look at that and they're like, this is how I ideally have my principles and how I ideal, like the ideal version of myself. And so I go like, that's literally me as in, you know, it might as well be your persona or something. I don't know. Yeah.

Skin sona. I'm more interested in this idea of people kind of misinterpreting like characters that are clearly like satire. Yeah, that too. Psycho is like a big one. Yeah. Christian Bale in that movie and people kind of like adopting the aesthetic and you see people like talking about it in a way where it's like, do you understand like what the story

was about or do you just kind of think it was genuinely like cool? Yeah. Like it happened semi recently with the latest season of the boys. Like there's like this whole like thing on the subreddit with them. Oh yeah. Fans like suddenly realizing what the comment, like the. The really not subtle commentary was like pointing at. And for some reason in the third, halfway through the third season is when some people in the fan base started realizing, hey, this is making fun of the thing I might be a part of.

Yeah. And then they started pushing back on it. Wait a minute. Which is just like, oh, it's a nice reminder of like, oh, I guess, yeah, there's a huge amount, a huge portion of people that enjoy movies, a huge part of the audience that genuinely have zero. media literacy at all and they just take everything literally at face value at face value yeah yeah yeah not that you can't like want to dress up like characters like that or like them like people dress up like dart vader or bad guys right like i don't think it's because they're murderers or whatever it's because they think dart fader's cool or i don't know they think it's like kind of

cool to be like a bad guy which which is fine yeah i i can agree with that but if there was someone who was like obsessed with dressing up as homelander or something i'd be a bit more suspicious maybe than like a Darth Vader fan I don't know the commentary just seems so much more blatant yeah yeah

it's definitely certain characters where I'd be like yeah huh you know like Roorshack is like a popular dress up yeah yeah but you know that's not a he's like an anti-hero

like you know well every character is literally me because we are the universe experiencing itself, so. Yeah, right. That is a valid philosophical thought, okay? I didn't just make that shit up.

Okay? That is perfectly, you can, don't dismiss that. That is, that's a perspective thing. Even if I said it in stoner voice. Yeah, next question. Big C-baller has one for us. Adam wants talked about how some child stars get used in films often when they aren't great actors. And eventually, when they grow up, they don't get roles and sometimes will have a very hard adult life.

So my question is, what's something that the movie industry can do to prevent exploitation of child stars so their lives aren't ruined when they get older? Hire them for their acting abilities? Like, maybe do a bit more of a casting process than they're like, ah, they're cute and they're also a nephew of somebody I know. Because you're just, you're kind of being an abusive asshole because you're setting themselves up, you're setting them up for failure. Yeah. Like, yeah, you're setting them up for, that's true.

Yeah, you're supposed to be like the kind of, I don't know, the word gatekeeper of like, well, I'm going to say this kid's a bad actor, but at least I get to say it and not like a million other people like Jake Lloyd or whatever like Star Wars. Like, you know, like for a movie like that, they should have gotten. Yeah, like that altered the trajectory of his life. Like, is it almost single-handedly ruined his life being in that movie? Yeah, it's the biggest, it's obviously going to be a fucking huge movie. It's Star Wars.

Like, they should have thought about that. Not Jake Lloyd himself, you know. Yeah, it ruins the lives of, like, adult actors, let alone when, like, kids that young are involved. You know, he was like, eight? Yeah, the guy played Jar Jar, too. Got all kinds of, like, you know, hate. and racism and whatever. Like, he's just an actor.

Like, what the fuck? I mean, to some extent, too, like, people are assholes. Like, they shouldn't be saying things like that. Yeah. You don't need to, like, harass the kid or the actor. Yeah, it's hard enough for an adult to try and, like, deal with that kind of overwhelming feedback. But when it is a child, it is like, man, Georgie, really didn't think about this one.

It's kind of like, it's abuse. It's, like, really fucked up. It really is. Yeah, or like a lot of those Disney stars. Like Disney, they make them into actors and musicians and whatever. Like, I don't know if they're capable of doing all these things. Maybe they are, but like, you know, sometimes they're not. Like, they, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it's a weird cultural thing where, you know, sometimes we turn children into, like, celebrities. And that's kind of just weird and creepy to me. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Like, if you want to have child characters in a movie, I guess, like, we got to have child actors, but to, like, do the whole, you know, celebrity culture thing on them is, like, really kind of... You're creating a fucked up human being, is what you're doing. If they're not already fucked up, you're making them fucked up.

How are you supposed to be grounded if you're, like, Millie Bobby Brown, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. The feedback you get and just the onslaught of, like, just bullshit. hatred. Yeah. Can these people even like go to a restaurant or do anything? Like, you know, like how I do? Can they go to like McDonald's without being like, oh my God, you're really Bobby Brown? Like, you know, I just think about that. Probably not. They probably just can't

even like function. Depending on where. I guess depending on where. Well, like Brooklyn's kind of a cool place. Like, you know, you hear stories like Zoe Kravitz walking around or whatever. Like, no one bothers her because it's like a cool area or like the guy from succession. Um, Collie Culkin's brother. I forgot his name. Kinnear. But yeah, like, and they're adults too, right? But there's definitely like cool environments like where people aren't like that. But, you know, there's just a lot of people who are just like, oh, my God, you're, you're

Lily Bobby Brown or whatever. You know, like, if I get that, I don't get it as often. So it's much less like stressful to deal with. But I'm sure like. Kieran Culkin, that was his name. Sorry. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure if you're like a like a super famous like Miley Cyrus or something.

someone like that like I'm sure you can't go anywhere no no you can't do anything that like normal people do like go to a store like go to like like like like like like like fast food or like you know it's just normal shit like go to 7-11 like get shit like pick up a case of beer you get to do anything yeah celebrity culture is just like so obnoxious honestly yeah it is obnoxious yeah like there's a big difference between like respecting someone for their work and just you know trying to hero worship to convince yourself that you you have done something in the universe and that you're not insignificant because you saw someone that's famous right at the at toronto film festival there's like people go for different reasons um i'm there for the movies but there's like there's so many

people that that are there to just be like i got you know like to smooth with like the big actors or there's people, there's the red carpet thing outside of some of the theaters, like one of the big theaters where they have like the fancy premium premieres or whatever. And they have the red carpet set up. And there's people just like with lawn chairs behind the barricade ready to take pictures, like not professionals, but like just people who are just gawking at celebrities. They don't even know who's coming out of the limo, but they're ready. They're like, I want to get a signature by any famous person.

And it's like, do you respect their craft? Like, do you like them? Like, it's just, it's just they're famous. Like, it's just kind of annoying. Oh, it's very annoying. Yeah. I've never understood that. It's, uh, yeah, that there's a weird, like, soft deification of, of human beings that we've done.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's toxic. Yeah. It's bad. Not much good comes from it. Yeah. And then we just, yeah, and then inevitably we see the same thing, like, being applied to children. It's like, okay, stop that.

You know, just stop. Because whenever there's a kid in a kid and a kid. movie, it's already like an uphill battle to like proves and earn like the place in the story and like justify the performance and everything. Like, just trying to avoid it for the most part. Yeah. Yeah. Depends on how you use kids in movies and what kind of story you want to tell.

But yeah, just sometimes seems inevitable to... I feel there are like celebrities. I don't mind celebrity, but I feel like there's certain people who are celebrities and they want to be celebrities. and that's like their whole MO and that's why they're like Tom Cruise Tom Cruise is a celebrity I don't feel bad giving him

attention he clearly must want it or like the financial gains from it Like the Rock or someone like that The Rock Yeah So people like that But then there's people like Beyonce That like never do any interviews

That are always like so reclusive But that adds to the mystique And that adds to the allure and then people treat her like a real god and people get even more obsessed with it because she's out of the spotlight that anytime someone sees her they're like,

ah! It's like, holy shit. Yeah, you can't really win in that position from that perspective anyway. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, just cancel yourself. Post a funny tweet. It's a hard thing to balance, yeah. It's a hard thing to balance.

That's part of like a musician's appeals like mystique or like your character. But yeah, it's not an excuse to like be like an unrealistic human being or like be like so out of touch or like other people. Yeah.

Well she's just like hides for like a year or whatever. Yeah. That's what she does. I don't even know. Like I don't know what Beyonce does. She's not on my radar. Like yeah, it's just like a certain audience.

They like that. I don't know. I'm not inherently against like celebrity. Um, I am mostly with like child stars because it's just like, it's unhealthy. It's unhealthy for them. I'm not.

I'm not against like people being in magazines or on television or more people seeing or consuming a product because someone's associated with it. I'm not against that, but people need to like, yeah, that's like, yeah. Lower, just like calm things down a bit and remember that these are just other human beings. Like they're people. Yeah. Yeah. They're people. It's just like marketing.

They're not gods. Like, oh, this is the new star. Yeah, I don't like think about Tom Cruise like all the time. Like if I see him on a poster, I'm like, oh, it's a new Tom Cruise movie. I'm going to see it. Yeah, yeah. That looks good. I'm not like obsessed with Tom Cruise.

I have like a cork board of his photos and like calling him every day or whatever. Yeah. But I don't feel most people are that way. I feel like if you're that way, you have some kind of problem. You need to work out yourself. Yeah. It's not always just like the celebrity. It's something about like film and TV.

It's just always boiled down into this emphasis on the actors specifically. Yeah. It's always about the actors. Like you sell movies on actors. They're the ones you see. And it's like, it's almost like this godlike position. Like, oh, I want to be the guy on TV. But, you know, like, if people stopped treating celebrities, like, they were such fucking

gods, like, maybe you actually have a chance of being on TV. Yeah. Because you're just, you know, you're a more realistic person. You'd be like, oh, you could actually get hired in a part. And you're not just, like, inflating this other guy and, like, having him take parts away from you. And, yeah, it's just, like, silly to, like, idolize people like that. to like an unrealistic, unhealthy degree.

To some degree, sure. To like a little bit. Like, there's nothing wrong with looking up to people. Yeah. To respect and admire someone who's art you love. Yeah, for inspiration for their craft. Whether that art is acting or writing or whatever. There's nothing wrong with praising for things that you connect with and things that you appreciate. But like, fuck, are you, like, when people, when people like, when people like,

steal their like little bits of clothing off of people at like in concerts or whatever they're like oh I got it like yeah like cough a bit of hair or something yeah like just crazy crazy people that's like shit like Elvis did yeah it's like shit from like the 60s yeah it's like so dated yeah just stop screaming women ripping off clothes and taking his scarves and yeah I'm excited for that new Elvis movie I feel like that's part of what that movie's about isn't that out already? It is. I gotta see it soon. I've been so busy. Oh yeah. Yeah, so, yeah, I won't be. I feel like that's like part of that movie's like, you know, Elvis is like, he is, you know, he's Elvis. He's like such a character. The king. Yeah. Yeah, people did that with Michael Jackson to a huge degree

too. People just like screaming. People were screaming when he came and like trying to take like stuff off his body, like his clothes and like fucking wild. Like, I, you know, I can't. can't imagine being that person. Yeah. And what it was take to like, you know, society-wise and, like, culture and, like, the kind of, like, marketing to, like, create that. Like, I don't even think that's possible anymore. And, yeah, it's just, like, this guy, like, fucking gyrating his hips.

Like, it's so odd. Yeah. All right. Last question. Okay. We'll send on this one from Pink Eye 5. Back in the fall, Adam mentioned he was watching The Sopranos. for the first time.

Curious, if you finished it and what he thought of it? If he didn't finish it, how come? And shout out to Tony, uh, uh, is it, Syrico? Passed away. Yeah, nice and peace. So, such a good actor in that show. Yeah, he's fantastic. Hmm, very funny.

How far did you get? Um, I got to probably season two, episode five or something. And, uh, I just, I might continue it at some point I'm just like it's not something that I feel like super compelled to watch a lot

I don't know like it's it's good it's good and I've seen parts of like near the end of the show that I'm like wow this is super interesting like I'm really interested in this but like in the first couple seasons as it's like building up to that level of quality

I just like I wasn't Really, it felt like kind of a obligation at points. I'll get back to it. But yeah. Just kind of build as it goes along. I was kind of more in by the towards the end of season one personally. And then I was kind of hooked.

Season one's great. Yeah, I feel that's probably like the strongest season, like self-contained. It has like a good beginning, middle end. Yeah. A lot of the seasons fall in like the same kind of like a structure where this is a villain that Tommy has to like defeat by the end. Usually there's like a subversion, like, it doesn't always play out the same way. Yeah.

Which is, you know, it's a very well-written show. Like, you know, if you don't like it or whatever, then that's fine. Maybe you shouldn't watch it. Like, that's like the best show ever made, basically, like, in my opinion. Like, even better than Breaking Bad probably. Yeah, the writing is immense. And it's not really plot-driven like Breaking Bad either. Like, it's not, it's not like so rigidly.

Yeah. This episode is purposeful because this happens and it's leading to. this like every episode's like its own thing and every it's more like character focused and like don't expect it to go anywhere but um well there's a you know there's certain things that carry through but some things go somewhere but they're they're more like self-contained in seasons aside from like certain things some things were like yeah grand arcs over the show like his therapy and yeah certain characters yeah like the stuff with his wife yeah i like that angle a lot i think that that's yeah the therapy angle is great um i started watching it because that

Many Saints of Newark's movie or whatever was coming out. And then I didn't finish Sopranos in time. And then everybody just seemed to have really lukewarm opinions on it. And so I just kind of gave up. I was like, out. I'm not watching this movie anyway. So I just. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a big, you know, it's a lot of hours. And I'm trying to watch a lot of things. So, but yeah, I like the show. I'll get back to it at some point. I'm sure. Just got to make a commitment. commitment.

Uh-huh. Yeah. It does get really good, like, later on when Tony's, like, really dealing with, like, the big mob guys, like, the head of New Jersey and those guys. Like, those scenes are really great. Yeah. And just how, like, it's like the end days of the mob kind of, like, just dismantling and, like, just technology, just fucking them over. Mm-hmm. Right.

Clearly, like, you know, like, Red Dead and stuff is, like, really inspired by that kind of, that kind of concept. the end of an era of some kind of like crime angle. Oh, okay. I need to get that Sopranos game now. Oh, yeah, PS2. It's probably on Xbox, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's probably on Xbox.

I definitely... Wasn't it supposed to be okay? Or was it... I don't know if it was notoriously, weirdly good or bad. Gandalfini is in it, which makes me, um, you know, that makes me want to play it. I'll play it. Oh, yeah. Um, Road to Respect.

Oh, it's on the 360, I think. What? Definitely got it. Cool. Nice. Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe it's only on PS2.

The Wikipedia usually has just the list of which platforms it's available. Hmm. Let's see. Only PlayStation 2 it says, well, I can emulate it, and I have a PS2 also. Yeah. Yeah. Cool, cool, cool. All right.

Supranos is great. Yeah, I will continue it at some point. I was enjoying it. I just like, yeah, other things got in the way. All right. Thank you very much. That does it for questions. Uh,

Ralph, it's time. It's my turn, yeah. Ralph. All right, I'm going to recommend a film from 1995 called Heat, directed by Michael Mann. Shit, yeah.

Fuck. Oh, cool. There's a 4K for that, too. Do I have it yet? How quickly can I order it? Oh, well, get that. Fuck, yeah. Let's see.

Will it show up in time? Oh, shit. Is it not out? Fuck, it comes out in August. Uh. Fuck. God damn it. Oh, well.

No! Sorry? You want me to recommend something else? I mean, yeah, it's whatever. You can, you'll like it. You'll watch it again one day and 4K. Yeah. I'll buy the regular Blu-ray first.

Yeah. But yeah, good, okay, yeah. This was on my list of things to watch, so. Yeah, mine too. Awesome. Yeah. Or you can download it and get the 4K Blu-ray later.

Oh, just a question. It says that There's a definitive director's cut edition, director's definitive edition. I've never seen that. Oh, okay. That I'm looking at that I can order to my place. Let's see if there's a difference in runtime.

I see here. Alternate versions. Comparison, theatrical. I would say watch the original one, just because it's very long. I just, yeah. Well, I just want to know what the difference is. Yeah. I mean, I'll check out the director's one.

I'll check it out because I've seen Heat. But I'd recommend the original just because it's such a long movie. Like, I don't think you need to spend any more time on it than that. But if you're, you know, do what you want. I'll watch. I'll definitely watch the directors one now that I know. It's seven minutes difference. Oh, really?

Oh, so that's nothing. Okay. Okay. I don't see much. Yeah. Okay, I'll still watch it anyway. because I don't own it. Yeah.

Okay. Well, whichever one is going to get shipped to me in time, I'll buy. All right. Okay. Perfect. If you don't want to be spoiled by, or sorry, for Heat, 1995, I think, directed by Michael Mann. Yeah, Michael Man. And watch it before the next episode.

These episodes come out every two weeks. But you can listen to them early as they're edited. go to sardonicast.com sign up for premium. It's only $2 a month or patreon.com slash sardonicast. Also, we got merch. Also, fan art, draw it and post it on Twitter

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