Sardonicast - Sardonicast 139: Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Buy Sardonicast T-Shirts, and other merchandise at https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast. Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthemoviemaker Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Ralph's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ralphthemoviemaker Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Fan art: https://twitter.com/cecilia_glazer/status/1068269916028063745 https://twitter.com/CMTC15/status/1068395822713192448 https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/auyw4k/wow_the_new_aladdin_is_looking_nice/ Timestamps: 0:00 intro 8:22 Guardians 3 32:47 Valerian 1:41:07 questions 2:01:55 recommendation

Three, two, one. I am a surgeon. I am a surgeon. I am a surgeon. I am a surgeon. Dr. Hahn. I am a surgeon. Yeah, I had that playing along in my headphones and I was trying to do it at the same time.

What the fuck is that? Hello, everybody. I'm Adam from your room. Me sucks. That was great. This is the surgeon. cast. That was awesome. Yeah, it was like perfect. Oh, good. Thank you. Yeah, very awesome. I love that. It's so funny. I'm Ralph Seppi. What's up? Yeah, Max, M. He and I don't remember that scene in Valerian.

No, it was a deleted scene. Uh-huh. Yeah, what is it deal with this good doctor? Oh, that was actually a kind of funny meme. Yeah. So I think at the show, the concept, is like it's just house but the guy has autism? That's exactly right. I thought that's house. I thought that's what house was. Did house have autism? I think that's like the implication.

It's a different brand of autism, I think. Yeah, yeah. He wasn't, yeah, it wasn't autistic enough. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't autism with a cane. It was, it's the Gen Z autism. Yeah. It's loud autism.

You know, after all these memes, I just can't help but feel bad for that actor. playing the good doctor, you know? Like, I feel like he's been made fun of so much. Freddie Highmole, he's a pretty good actor, right? Is it, is it his performance that, like, is wrong with that scene? I think it's more just the concept, like the writing is just really weird. It looks like a really cheese-ass show. Yeah, I think it's just everything about the show.

Yeah, that's just network television, like, in a nutshell. It's, like, completely bullshit. It's total bullshit made for everyone over, like, 50 years old. It's like made to be put on in the background. Lots of detective shows and hospital shows. Yeah, 100 plus episodes. Yeah, you're right. Like, the only hook of it is that, like, he's got autism.

And it's not realistic autism. Yeah. It's like this. He acts like a robot, basically. Yeah. It's like so inaccurate. Savantism is basically. It's so weird.

Yeah. That meme's really taken off, though. Yeah. I mean, yeah, recently. And I think that's from like, season two or something so it's been out for a while and people have just I guess discovered this clip which is very funny yeah it's not a bad fun like seeing all the clips being shared around about the show I feel like I've seen like the whole character's arc in like the past couple

weeks like he's got he gets a girlfriend he has a baby yeah it's crazy yeah yeah you know the classic autism problems of like all these love triangles you know yeah all these social relationships, yeah. Yeah. Not lack thereof. Classic autism portrayal. Yeah, I'm never going to watch it. It looks like shit.

I'll never watch it. Yeah. That's just, you know, it's like young Sheldon. It's like one of those. Exactly, exactly. I've seen a lot of ads for it. And I'm just like, it's even House, which people loved, I was like, it's just the same thing every episode. It's just the exact same fucking thing every episode.

fucking thing every episode. Like, I can't get into it. You're just doing the exact same shit. I've never got into one of these, like, hospital shows. They all seem kind of to follow that sort of formula. It's very difficult. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's like patient of the week, isn't it?

Type thing. Yeah. I feel like that's the way a lot of cop shows, too, but I've seen, like, a few good ones, like the shield. Yeah, the shoe is really good. What's great about the shield is, like, it doesn't really, right, fit that mold. It, like, changes constantly. Yeah, there's, like, arcs.

over the seasons, right? Yeah, great characters too. You can argue a lot of shows are like pretty formulaic. I haven't seen six feet under in a while, but I love it. And I'm looking for a good excuse to revisit it. But I remember, you know, it's not just patient of the week. It's like death of the week, you know? But there's enough interesting things happening with the characters independently of, you know, the particular formulated bits of the episode. There's enough continuing chronologically and consistently that it makes it interesting. And I get that House and other shows can have that too, but it's just like, it's just not quite at the level that I want, you know?

HBO has so much better cinematography and performances, you know? Yeah, there's just too much fluff. Too many episodes and no plan for it to end is a part of my problem with those types of shows. Like, six feet under had a very definitive ending. and Alan Ball was like, yeah, we're ending it at the end of season five. And that's what made it so great, like part of it, right? But a lot of these shows, they're just like, well, why don't we just keep doing the same thing forever? And then the writers change and they try to do the same thing.

And it's like, ooh, Dexter's Season 8 shit. Yeah, yeah, Dexter kind of fell apart as it went along. Yeah, the office. That's what I love about Succession, you know. Succession's only four seasons and then, bam, it's done. Like the entire show is pretty much fucking banger, right? You should check that one out, Adam. Pretty cool show.

I really enjoyed season one. Oh, yeah. I watched season two. I started watching season three, and I kind of just like lost interest at some point. But I could return to it. I feel like it gets better as it goes along. Yeah, that's how I feel too. Yeah.

I just, I really, I really liked what they were doing in season one. And then I felt like they just kept going with it. But I'm not like completely off of it. I'll check it out again at some point. I'll probably just continue where I left off. Yeah, sure. But yeah, I felt more invested in what was going on in season one. I felt like it was more comedic in season one.

Maybe that's part of it. Like, sure, there's still comedic elements to it, but I feel like it was a bit more satirical in season one. And I feel like they took themselves a bit more seriously as the show went on. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like the satire is pretty strong throughout.

But yeah, it's pretty sharp, I feel like. Okay. And the characters just get more and more believable and more, more depth to them as it goes along. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I feel the same way. You know, I really like the characters, how they're written. Because they're kind of despicable. But yeah, there's definitely like some humanity that leaks out. Yeah, they're horrible. Yeah. They are horrible. All of us. That is kind of like the hook and what makes it interesting as these like horrible people and finding the writers figuring out ways to make you sympathize with them in these odd ways you might not expect.

Oh yeah. Yeah. And one thing I will say about the show, I love the score of it. It's by Nicholas Brittle. Yeah. They use it a lot. It's like, you know, sometimes I hear like themes repeated. I'm like, okay.

Like, you know, it's like the same music. It's great music. But yeah, it's just like something I noticed. They do, that does get better, I think, as it goes along too, in terms of that. But, yeah. It is great music. If I knew how often they would use it within the show, I would have just skipped the opening, the intro, the intro, every time. Yeah.

Because eventually I had to start doing that. I was like, oh, you're just, okay, this is just, you're just using this a lot. They've got, like, really long, like, verbose introses on HBO as well. Yeah. I love their, like, three, four minute long. I wouldn't blame you for skipping that. It's a good track. Yeah, I'll check the rest of it out. But yeah, there's a huge fucking backlog of things that I need to check out. I just, I started passively kind of watching the

wire. Oh, nice. Yeah. So we'll see, we'll see how often I watch that. I like that. I like that so far. Yeah, that's like another cop show that's really good. Like kind of breaks the mold. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. In 2020. There's a lot of HBO shit I need to check out. Yeah, that shows amazing. All right. So you two watched the new Guardians film. And I decided to wait until digital, but I don't care if you spoil it. I already kind of know, I guess, spoiler discussion, if I'm just going to tell you what I think the movie's about. Spoiler discussion. I've heard that it's like the Rocket Raccoon, they save a bunch of animals that were going to be used for like testing or something.

And they can talk like him or something. It's basically something like that. It's kind of like Rocket Raccoon's origin story. It's like half of the movie. Yeah, I heard Peter loved it. Yeah, I saw that tweet that they sent out about it. Oh, really? I didn't, I didn't hear about that.

Did they actually like it or? Well, no, animals were actually hurt. They were like, yeah, because it's like a pro, an anti-animal, like abuse message underlying part of the movie. Yeah, you know, you're right. They like that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. I did like that too. Yeah. I heard a lot of people love it. I like those new characters. I really, I look, I kind of. loved it, yeah. A lot more people loved it than I would expect from like a 64 metascore score. But it's in the top 250 right now. Like what the fuck? Yeah, I don't really get that.

But yeah, I think the second Guardians movie got a similar kind of meta score reception, I think. And again, I feel like, I just feel like the Guardians movies in the MCU are like the top tier of it to me. They feel like they have the best characters. They're able to balance the comedic to dramatic tone quite well. We were just talking about the same. new amp man in the last episode we uploaded and it's kind of like the inverse of that movie this one it's like yeah making that sci-fi setting work it's james gun it actually feels like a james gun movie he's able to like characterize this uh cast of misfits really well um and yeah just the whole trilogy has been really consistent really likable there's arguments to be made this probably

the best one in a lot of ways. Yeah. Yeah, I was quite surprised by like, yeah, James Gunn, he seems to have, like, carved out this, he's figured out how to work within the studio system to make, still deliver something in that, like, it's going to be big and marketable, and those people are going to see, but, yeah, it does still feel like a gun movie, and it has the weird quirks, and it does have the kind of trauma violence in there, and a bunch of the stuff you wouldn't expect in these kind of big movies.

So, yeah, I was, like, really pleasantly surprised by it. this was especially after the mess that was that Ant Man. Oh yeah, it's much better than Ant Man. Ant Man was visually just repulsive. And this looked great. Really cool visually. I loved certain scenes, just like them floating in space. That looked beautiful and the music fit perfectly.

That's the thing. I love the music in the Guardians movies. I think that gives them personality too. The soundtrack, yeah. Very intentful. Yeah, I just feel like so many of the Marvel movies. Yeah, the Marvel movies have been trying to copy like, what James Gunn has been doing, like even with Thor Ragnarok and just a couple other ones.

You can see they're going for the Guardians vibe. And yeah, James Gunn just does it really well. All the trailers have Beastie Boys music in them now. All of them. Well, this had no sleep till Brooklyn in it. Yeah, it was used much better than it was in the Super Mario movie. That's funny. Yeah.

I think Gurney just managed to capture lightning in a bottle with, like this franchise in particular like I think I think he basically managed to carry on Star Wars that's how I feel it's like the new Star Wars of Star Wars yeah like he managed to actually carry on like what it is as opposed to what like Disney did with the real Star Wars movies and the mess that is this feels like yeah someone who grew up with Star Wars is making their own kind of thing with a bunch of like unknown comic characters yeah it does feel like his thing and it feels like each one of the movies has its own separate, like, focus on, like, characters it wants to flesh out. Yeah, it was, like, really happy with the way it comes together.

And it feels conclusive, too. Like, we keep saying with these MCU movies, they just, just feels like throwing another one into this endless bucket. And it's, like, nothing's really changing. There's no consequence. I felt like this was, yeah, another ending of sorts. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the wraps it up, like, clean. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it was super great, like, trilogy of movies. movies. Like, it's probably the best trilogy I've seen since, like, the Planet of the Apes films in terms of modern trilogies. I was thinking about that. I'm like, yeah, this is a great trilogy of movies. Probably the best trilogy out of Marvel as well, aside from maybe Spider-Man and Iron Man. But I like these more. Just because, yeah, you're right, Alex, there is that personality with the filmmaking. You could tell, like, there's a real artist behind everything. And I was super impressed by, like, the character work, the fact that they were able to write so many characters and make them all interesting and give them all enough time to kind of shine in the

movie like no one kind of felt like they got you know short the short end of the stick with this movie other than maybe adam warlock which is like a new character i think they gave him enough but he definitely feels like like i expected a little bit more from him in this film but that being said do you do you like know him as like a big marvel character or something because not really yeah we're in like material that i'm like super unaware of when we're going to characters on that kind of level. So I don't know if people expect more of him

because they expect to see more of him in the wider universe or he does only kind of play a small role in the movie, you're right? Yeah, played by Walt Polter. Yeah, I like what I saw of him, but yeah, there are a lot of characters in, there's a lot going on.

It feels like a very full movie. Like, it's kind of a lot happening. No, but he writes it in such a way where, yeah, every one of the characters you care about gets at least that one moment that really strong memorable scene that characterizes them or rounds them off in a really good way there are like some really good ones um outside of like the obvious way they uh kind of finish uh peter quills arc where he like goes back to his granddad which i like wasn't expecting and it was quite a good emotional payoff there's like smaller ones too with like

everything they do with dracks and yeah um yeah there's this ongoing theme of like uh all the characters not really liking who they are or feeling like they need to be defined by something outside of them as most acute with like the rocket um and the the villain of the movie this like crazy biological monster guy who's like experimenting on animals and that whole like side of the movie and yeah him like coming coming to meet his maker and yeah that was like a really like people were talking about how dark this and how like parents have been taking kids to this movie, expects him like a flowery Marvel affair, and then it gets to like these like animal torture scenes where they're like strapped up on these torture devices and being injected with stuff with these like crazy mechanical implants.

And it is that felt like very old like slither type James Gunn, like nodding to kind of goofy horror that you love. Yeah, it was like not expecting that. level and yeah they they do have like goo and gore and this as much as they can it's like a Marvel film but yeah it is there rotate in a way where he's just able to get yeah get sneak it in there into the setting yeah I love that yeah weird yeah that it's like an organic planet or something so everything's like really gross and viscerally slimy and sticky and yeah it's like a fun way to use the visual

effects on this scale because yeah that that ongoing issue of these Marvel movies like stretched thin with their their visual budgets like again gun I guess clearly knows how to make it work because that just wasn't on my mind for this movie because yeah characters are forefront the action's fun like it's a good use of color unlike this Ant Man stuff like it's just doing a lot more and it's yeah the way it's able to characterize that that whole suite as well as like feed into all these central themes and get the jokes in like yes James gun he's kind of he's on fire right now i don't think he's missed in like a while for me for what i'm

looking for him like i really like that suicide squad movie similarly pretty good and what did you think of the second guardians movie uh i really like it um i think it's one of the better movies i just i can't remember anything about it and i remember i remember i remember watching it and not making a review because i had nothing to say about it i was really yeah that's where his dad is A planet. Yeah, Kurt Russell. Yeah, Kurt Russell is that. That's all I remember.

Yeah, yeah. And like, Mantis is that, yeah. Yeah. And there's darkness in that movie, too. Like, I go spoiler. Him, ego killing, like, Chris Pratt's mother in the film. Or Star Wars mother. Yeah.

Not Chris Pratt's mother. That would be horrible. Yeah, the, right. There's always this element of darkness and even the best Marvel movies. I think, or usually the best ones. There's always like dark shit that happens in them. Like, Gimora dying and end game or, you know, Robert Downey, uh, Tony Stark's dad dying, like getting killed by Winter Soldier, that kind of shit.

So yeah, there's, like, this darkness in here, but, you know, anyone who's watched Marvel knows that, like, there's always some dark shit going on. And as long as it's, like, blended in well with the comedy and as long as the tone works, Like that Eternals movie was fucking boring And it didn't balance those characters at all Like oh yeah I really remember Sprite And Circe

They weren't fun to watch They like they had no personality to them They were yeah they were nothing but their powers That was like their whole gimmick Whereas these characters really play well off each other And they're interesting Yeah they have their own arcs And really good dialogue

Like really poignant Dialogue about You know How each of them feels about each other And it makes you think about the characters like them. Like, you're actually like following these people. And yeah, it's a hard thing to make, care about a bunch of aliens and like weirdos. Yeah. Like this. And leave all the characters in a way that feels conclusive and satisfying without being too clean, you know? Like,

I was, I was concerned that they were just going to get, um, Peter and, uh, Gamoora back together after that stuff that happened in Avengers. Um, but that whole angle they took with that. It's like, yeah, that's like really restrained and you're using it as like a way to advance these characters in a non-Hollywood obvious kind of way that you'd expect, you know, like them getting back together at the end. Sure. They don't feel the need to do that. That worked really well because that's a hard thing to write. Like, oh, you have a different Gomorrah now. But they actually worked that in pretty well, I thought, because that could have dragged the movie down, but it really didn't.

I like what they did with her. Yeah. Yeah. I like so much about it. Yeah, I will say one thing on the, I like the soundtrack as far as like the already existing songs chosen, whereas the original orchestrated score, I feel like was a bit weaker in this one. I don't think it was Tyler Bates compared to the other two, which I just prefer his work

on those other movies. Oh, okay. Yeah, I didn't really pick up on the score really. like yeah it's yeah it's kind of way less it's less there overall to be honest yeah it is kind of a bit of a heavier tone that that second guardians movie is way more overtly comedic I feel like you know

like you don't have like Pac-Man in the in the emotional climax of this movie's conclusion you know like it's taking itself way more seriously and it works for that and it does make it kind of stand out in this list of movies. There were a couple of details I didn't really love. There's like a fake out death towards the end, which I didn't really see the point of or feel like it needed particularly.

Especially, it's like the same scene that they do in that first Guardians movie. Yeah, just weird. That one scene to me just didn't really need to be there. But otherwise, yeah, pretty long. but I think it justifies the runtime. It's just great character work. I like what he does with characters. He cares about them.

He knows what to do with like Adam Wolock and stuff like just enough. Just enough. Flesh, not just enough. Find the characters that make sense for certain types of jokes and humor. But even then, like some of the more emotional gut-punchy moments are when they take one of the goofier characters like DRAX and then suddenly like have like a really brutal scene where Mantis and, is like really honest to him and then raises his memory and it's like

this is kind of fucked up. Yeah, yeah. But her dialogue there's really good. Yeah, it's clearly like a labor of love. He like really cares about these characters and honestly, like we give Chris Pratt a lot of shit but I really like him in this role. I think he's really good as

this character and he clearly also cared about this character. It's like the most serious you've seen him. Yeah. Like in this whole universe. Yeah. Yeah, I like him.

I prefer him in this than I do it to Mario. Yeah. Just a little bit. Yeah, it's all about how he's cashed. Yeah. It's like, I hate him when he's in things he shouldn't be it. Like, fucking. Yeah, he's great in this.

Because your name's Chris Pratt. Yeah. Well, like, I hate him in those Jurassic World movies. Like, he's sucked in his movies. He does. He's great in this. He's like meant for these. A lot of people suck in those movies.

True. Those movies suck. Most of the acting sex in those movies. Yeah. Where a lot of the Guardians movies, like, the first two, kind of fall apart for me, not entirely is the climaxes usually. They usually get bogged down in CGI action, I feel. Yeah, you're right.

Yeah. Both of them. And this one didn't really have that problem for me. I thought it all built up to, like, a climax that was interesting. And there was, like, enough going on to, like, kind of keep it interesting. I thought. It's like enough to like cut to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm with you. It definitely like flows better towards the end. It doesn't turn into. Yeah, there is that moment in that first Guardians movie where it does just become

basically the beam in the sky thing. There's a horde of blanks that I need to be like destroyed with turrets type thing. Yeah. There doesn't really devolve into that level. It's, and the second film is kind of like CGI overload. They're like, they're like, they're I remember they're in like in the planet. There's like just, there's just surrounded by CGI stuff. Yeah, yeah. It was a little too much visually.

Yeah. Too much. Whereas this one balanced it really well. Yeah. I think it's the best of the three. I think they get better as they go along. Yeah, great hallway action scene as well towards the end. Oh yeah.

That was great. It's like a trend now to just do your hallway action scene and just flex, I guess, as much as possible. Mm-hmm. Yeah, when it works, It kind of works. It's a cool moment that you'd like expect and want to see from a superhero movie. They definitely earn that moment.

Yeah, it does feel like it's like the end of the three-part trilogy. They actually feel like they're a team now. Yeah. Yeah. That was a great action scene. Yeah. One of the better things about this trilogy doesn't feel as bogged down by like all the extra stuff. They're not like every few lines like referencing the Hulk or something, you know.

It's in there. But I feel like you could just watch these three movies and just be fine outside of some of the endgame Gomorrah dying stuff, which is even kind of written into the script a little bit. Like it seems a bit of annoyance towards that, that plot point from the end game that's like affected this third movie. I could see that being a frustrating situation to be in if you're like trying to write your third story with these characters. But it's been like changed. It's completely changed the dynamics outside of your story. story, but it's the nature of the shared universe, I'm afraid. Yeah. Yeah, I think James Gunn helps write those Avengers movies. I don't know if that was his decision. I really don't know.

Yeah, it's hard to keep track of. It doesn't drag the movie down as much as it could have. No. I like mostly what they did with that, yeah. All right. Want to give ratings? You can go first, Alex. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. On my first viewing, I give it like a solid three and a Star 7 out of 10, which I think is what I gave the first and second one, which I've actually, I think, bumped up after watching them again. Yeah, I think James Gunn just gets how to make these movies. I like his sense of humor. I like how he's able to balance that comedy with the drama and how both work pretty well. It's not quite like the scattershot Guardians 2, which is, yeah, it's so full of jokes.

It is more of a shotgun approach of like, man, some of these just don't land. and it's kind of annoying, but I just didn't feel that at all with this one. Yeah, I'd love I've seen it again. It's kind of feels like a conclusive end to these characters. And yeah, I'm just into James Gunn at the moment. I like what he's doing. Yeah, I thought the script was tight, tight, tight. I really liked it.

And it's just good character stuff. Visually, it was pleasing to watch unlike that Ant Man movie. Just so many of the complaints I've had with the recent Marvel films, this movie, you know, subverts it and makes it really good. Like, great characters, even though there's a lot of them. Visually stunning, great music, memorable scenes and, like, just awesome fucking Hollywood Blockbuster all around. I actually really love this movie.

I think it might be my favorite of the three. And I'm going to see it again to, like, confirm that. But, yeah, just with so many other Marvel movies, I have these criticisms. Like, even Spider-Man No Way Home, which I love. There are parts of that movie that feel like you're watching a Super Bowl ad or some shit. And it's just, yeah, we're Captain America's Civil War. Like all these movies I have criticism with, but James Gunn, yeah, like, you really sense the passion there.

And I think that's most important with like movies like this and like that they have a personality and that they're entertaining. And yeah, it just doesn't feel bloated at all. Like, it's a great trilogy of movies to watch like all the way through. I might do that again one day just like watching them all the way through if I have like an afternoon free It's super fun movies

And yeah the best trilogy I've seen in a while I think I'd think I'd go a four star on it I really like this shit Yeah really consistent trilogy That's one thing So it's so awesome like the third one is where it like can't maintain it or it falls apart It's like just all three of them

Just really good really solid What you'd want from these kind of Hollywood Yeah. But besters, yeah. Super high marks for, yeah, consistency. Yeah, so a lot of people seem to love this one a lot. It's got the highest user rating. Can either of you explain why you think that it has the lowest meta score,

or is that just one of those, like, who the fuck knows sort of things? I think it's kind of like you, where you're kind of burnt out on the superhero stuff, maybe. And I'm kind of burnt out on it, too. Like, I feel like Marvel's made a lot of missteps, and there's just people. that aren't going to forgive them for that. They're just going to go like, fuck this shit. But this is actually a good movie. I don't really, I don't count it as a Marvel movie as much as I counted as a James

gun film. Yeah, same. And that's really how I see it too. Yeah. And after this, yeah, I don't really care what they do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You don't have to try.

It really feels like a James Gun movie as well. It's not like there are little flashes. It's like, no, just the whole time this is, this is him all over. Yeah. It's probably dumb, conservative people who hate that. There's like an F bomb in the movie as well. It's like with that, yeah, with that like Strange World movie or Lightyear last year, like, you know, complaining about minor details in that. Right.

And it's like, oh, how's my kid's supposed to see this movie? It's got an F bomb. That's funny. There's a considerable gap in time between the volume two and volume three. Volume two is 2017, of course, because he was fired after his. tweets were dragged up. Oh yeah.

How horrible his tweets. Oh my God. Where he was role playing is Luke Besant? Yeah. Yeah, that was crazy. Yeah. It was like some political figure

that went through his old tweets got uncensored. It was Mark Sernovich. That's right. Yeah. Oh, man. He was hired by D.C. Made Suicide Squad,

then made Guardians and came. but because Disney realized they needed him. Yeah. And he's made the best trilogy. And he's made the best DC movie as well. And he's doing the new Superman. Like, he's basically recovered or he will recover DC.

I have faith in him out of anyone. And there's people who like, a lot of naysayers about that. But he's a good director. He's made nothing but good stuff, like you said Alex recently. So I'm looking forward to his Superman movie. That being said, you know, I was thinking it's not really his, like, that's not really up his alleys Superman because he's used to doing the ensemble thing

and kind of gross out humor and and like C-list characters no one like cares about you know sure so I'm interested how he would do Superman since that's like you know one character and it's not as overtly comedic I mean it would it would be lighthearted but it wouldn't be like the guardians

or the suicide squad kind of tone but I do have faith in him as well, like, because he's actually a good director. He'd bring some, like, levity to Superman, which I think they really need after those Snyder films. It was like a total miscalculation. Yeah. Yeah. What Superman was.

Maybe, maybe the DC films will be better than Marvel soon. Yeah, maybe eventually. The tides will turn. Yeah. I don't know if I'll love that Superman movie, but I think it will be better than, you know, a lot of this stuff we've seen recently from Superman. I'm more hopeful for that than a lot of other projects in this space, that's for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

There's a lot of Snyder naysayers, you know, like, James Gunn's going to ruin it all. But, you know, Snyder, he fucked everything up. Like, he need to get someone else to fix this. Yeah. He totally ruined it. I mean, objectively. A lot of these people seem like the types where they would just love anything that has the characters in it anyway. Like, a lot of these people that are freaking out being like, but Snyder did it perfect.

Or just people that I would assume will like anything that has Superman in it or the suicide squad. Right. You know? Right. Yeah. We'll see how they feel that a lot of them are naysayers right now. But I have a funny feeling like a lot of those identical exact same people will probably enjoy whatever comes out. Oh, they're going to love it.

Yeah. When they see an actually good Superman movie, yeah, they're going to fucking. I mean, no matter what it is, even if it's not. I have a funny feeling. be better than whatever Snyder did. And they're going to be like, what? I saw a good movie. Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. That's a safe bet. Yeah. Can't wait for them to see a good movie. Yeah. So I would like to just get into Valerian. Because I feel like it's going to be like a long discussion.

You want to get into Valerian? I want to get inside the thousand planets. Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Hot and have you over here. Yeah. Gotta get in there. So this is my recommendation.

So can I, I guess, describe the plot? Yeah, what's the blur? Apparently, we've talked about this before in like passing, though. Apparently, in the very first episode of the podcast. Okay. It's the very first episode. We had a brief discussion. Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Very brief, I think, though. And so it's been a meme for that long, huh? Well, yeah. Because it would have been like a new movie-ish around that time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think it would have just come out on...

digital or something. It is a fascinating project, man. It's such a weird film. It's the most expensive indie film. It's an independent film. Yeah. It's independently financed. It's also the most expensive European film, I think.

Yeah. Yeah. About a $200 million budget. It depends really where you look for the budget. But it's high. It's like 200 million or, more. 223 million.

Mm-hmm. And it's, yeah, it's directed by Luke Bissan, like you said, director of Fifth Element and Leon the Professional. And Lucy? And it's actually produced, yeah, produced by his wife as well, Luke Besson's wife. And it's about a bunch of crap. It's a bunch of crap. Did you read the comics, Alex?

Oh, yeah. It's based on comics as well. I actually did search it up and I went through. I didn't read them. I'm going to be real because I saw how dense with text all the speech bubbles were.

I couldn't do it. This is the thing though, right? Like, what is with this movie? 2017, a $200 million dollar Valerian adaptation. Valerian is what, like a weird French comic book? Did any of you guys, did any of you guys heard of Valerian growing up? Never, no.

This isn't like a tin-tin or an asterix-modic? thing. This is like, I feel like this is way more obscure. Yeah. Oh yeah. This is super obscure. It's right. I think it's because it resembles kind of like a superhero space thing and that was kind of getting popular. Like, when was the first Guardians? Like

2014 or something? 2014. Yeah, and the Force Awakens came out 2050. Yeah, big demand for these big poppy space movies. It feels like this is trying to capitalize off of that and also Luke is trying to relive his what's the other movie he made

Fifth Element? Because he basically just kind of did the fifth element again in a lot of ways with this movie. There are a lot of similarities. Yeah, because the fifth element was directly inspired, right? It was inspired by Valerian.

And I'm pretty sure the comic artist did a bunch of concept stuff for the fifth element. So yeah, they might as well exist in the same in the same space. They very similar. That is very fun.

The movies have a lot of problems as well, despite being decades apart. And it's interesting that this is what you would make with like an independently financed $226 million movie. Like, this is your all in, you know? Like,

this is an incredible investment. And this is what you decided to do. It is an incredible investment that did not work out. It's like watching money burn. Yeah, it's like watching money burn on screen. It's hilarious. Yeah, it's like watching Elon Musk by Twitter. Oh, yeah.

Oh, my God, such an embarrassment that thing. Anyway, like, I think Luke Bassan was trying to do something like what James Cameron does with his films in this. Like, he was trying to recapture that fifth element tone, for sure. Like, he thinks he's like this great science fiction director, but I don't know. what James Cameron does with his films, it's not just about like, it's not just about like the science fiction. It's about like pushing the technology. Yeah. And making like something that's actually commercially going to be successful.

Like say whatever you want about his films. But like you can tell like they're marketed a certain way. They're made for a certain audience that like will like it and enjoy it to a certain extent. And they're visually like impressive. And like I said, they push the technology. Here it's like what is like what's like the hook? of this film? Like, why did they even make it? You know, it just, it doesn't really stand out at all. Yeah, it's like them trying to capture that, that Hollywood, like, science fiction film,

but they don't really understand, like, what they, like, what an audience was looking for from that. Yeah. And just like, the casting is bizarre. It's the worst part about it. The worst part about it, easily. Dean DeHaan, Cara Delavine, yeah, Clive Owen, Rihanna, Ethan, Ethan Hawen. It's like, did they pick these people, like, through a roulette wheel or something? It's like the most random people. It does feel that way. Rihanna probably got the most people in the seats, honestly. There's probably a bunch of people that went to see a movie with Rihanna in it.

And aside from that, like, nobody else got anybody in the seats. Like, nobody was going to look at Clive Owen in the trailer and be like, ooh, I want to see this. Nobody looked at Dane to Haunt. Like, negative people looked at D. People probably avoided the movie. He's the lead of the film. It's such an interesting pick. What was it about him in this time?

Why? It's the worst pick. Like, why? Because it's not only just the casting, but like, he's written as, he's supposed to be like a, a macho, like, handsome, bad boy. You get like a Chris Pratt for that. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

If you replaced him with Chris Pratt and you replaced whoever the girl is with, like, Jennifer Lawrence. Yeah, with someone who could act, right. Somebody suggested this on Reddit, like, way back when they were like just swap the cast for passengers you know it would make both movies yeah right right yeah they've got more of kind of a sibling thing going on in this movie even though i know love and trust yeah you could have told me that they were siblings the entire movie and i would have believed you up until they kissed at the end and maybe still believed you because it's luke basal

yeah his ode to star wars yeah if they didn't constantly talk about how they were going to get married Which is, by the way, that's like all they talk about other than like expository dialogue. They're just like, oh, are you going to marry me yet? And she's like no. It's so fucking bad. It seems like they hate each other the entire movie. Like, they both have this. It seems like they can't stand each other.

You know, like, yeah. They both look pissed. They both got resting bitch face. Yeah. Is that just their acting or the characters? Like, I don't even know. What the hell they were doing? This got to be some of the worst characters, like, and it's just science fiction

films. Yeah. And I look at the side by side for the comics. I didn't read the fucking comics. Like, the dude's buff. Like, he doesn't look like a fucking crackhead. Why'd you cast Dane Dahan? Dane Dahan works for roles where you would assume that the character had a drug problem in their past, right? Or maybe currently going through one. Right? He worked well for Chronicle. He was good in chronicle. He was good in a cure for wellness. Oh, yeah. Right? Those were roles he fit in. He does not work as Harry Osborne. He does not work as Harry Osborne. He does not work as a fucking space hero, right? What the hell are you thinking?

Why would it cast him? He works better as, as us born. Because yeah, he's got the goblin thing going on at least. Even that. Oh, you liked him as the groblin? I didn't like him,

but I at least understand that casting decision, you know? I can picture that, you know? I can see like a bit of art within, Goblin and goblinized and sell it. But yeah, there's like a big visual problem with this movie.

I guess there's kind of like a 90s jank chile. arm to the fifth element that a lot of people like. Yeah, the aesthetic of that. It's made, what, 20 would have been made in 2016 or ish. Man, so yeah, you got lots of CG creatures and monsters and all sorts. It just looks like a big waste of money. Yeah.

Like, how are you supposed to be excited about it? Yeah, they got ILM and Weta to do a lot of these special effects as well. So it's like, that's where I get confused for it. So I guess, yeah, technically it is, uh, quote unquote indie movie, but like, how does it actually get that title if it's using, like, wetter and ILM visual effects and... Yeah, right. You know?

It's just based on how it's financed, you know? Yeah, yeah. So it's an indie movie. It's definitely an indie movie. The Avatar James Cameron thing is a good thing to bring up, because it does just feel like Lou Besant watched Avatar and was like, oh, I can do it now. yeah yeah right oh i can do that without like without realizing like how like hard that is to like

pull off yeah yeah if you didn't question what it actually meant like what it was that he was going to bring to screens it's like man at two hours 16 minute long kind of pulpy ode to this corny adventure serial type storytelling except it it does have this kind of corny tone but then wants you to take it seriously as like this military espionage sci-fi thing. Like it can't figure out what part it wants you to care about. Is it these main characters and their plight? Is it like the sci-fi craziness and aliens? Yeah, like the world, I guess.

Because the movie starts with like this little prologue. It's so forgettable. Like I don't blame you if you forgot about this part. It shows like humanity, modern day, like going into space and they're playing. David Bowie. Yeah, David Bowie, space oddity, I think. Or, yeah, something like that. But it's like, why is this in the movie?

Like, what does this have to do with the characters or anything fucking happening in the plot? Because it's the thousand planets. It's the thousand planets of aliens that learn to live with each other. It doesn't really matter. It doesn't need explanation, really? Like, you can just set something in a sci-fi future. You don't have to be like, well, and then they may. this species and it was a fish in a fucking Bioshock suit and he had slimy hands.

Yeah, it's like they're trying to bridge the gap between now and like their stupid science fiction world when you didn't really need to do that. Yeah. Where you're going to just had like a title card like Blade Runner does like this happened and then blah blah blah and then you know you're in the movie like it's just so unnecessary. The things they do choose to dedicate time to explaining are just like why are you wasting the real estate that that whole that crazy. section towards the beginning, that whole action set piece, like in the in the desert, it's like a VR

shopping center. And it's got all these like complicated setups and like technology, dimension hopping technology and like Dane Dahan's arm gets sent to like a different dimension and John Goodman alien shows up and it's this crazy complex sequence

and like, it's just all of that setup is like abandoned after that scene. It's like it never comes back into play in any way and it's like, well, why did you spend like basically a TV episode length explaining these like complicated concepts for it to be nothing? It's like such a strange waste of time. It's like the first hour of the movie is that shit. Yeah. And it's like what you were saying about Ant Man. Like there's just no context for any of it. It's like, why should I care about any of the shit happening? I don't even know what's happening

half the time. It's just a bunch of cluttered visuals. Yeah, like try try and catch me up on how the the the the the the the the the the up yeahna stuff like actually winds up being in the movie right because there's a point where

valerian like yes that action scene he's looking for her he's like running through a million he like crashes through a bunch of flaw that this movie loves that for some reason yeah yeah going through millions of floors he was looking for his sister yeah oh yeah oh yeah sister so

so that justified him being pulled aside by Ethan Hawke as Jolly the Pimp. Yeah. And then it's like egregious Rihanna musical number, like plays for like five minutes. And it's like excruciating. Yeah. That was fucking painful. And then she dies, like what?

Yeah. She dies pretty unceremoniously and out of nowhere. It was just kind of like, I'm dying now. Can you? Yeah. But Rihanna's a shapeshifter as well. Like she turns into like some kind of purple goo alien. We have mystique at home.

Yeah, it's like flea market mystique. Yeah. That's what it was. Awful. Maybe that was from the comic or something. Yeah, apparently the comic too. The comic is called Valerian and Loreline. Like, that's the title of the comic series.

So, but they just went with Valerian. There's no good reason for it to be city of a thousand planets. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know why they did that instead of Laurelien. Yeah, I couldn't even find what that was referencing. Like, if there was a famous run of the comic that, yeah, I couldn't even find. But just comparing, like, the visuals to some of the stuff in the comics. Like, it is, they went for this hyper-realistic thing with the CG.

So, like, these comical fantasy designs that look cool in 2D. Man, do they look creepy and freaky in 3D? They have this like, these three characters that are kind of the exposition dump, dibby things. Man, look, I'm going to send a, it's a Reddit post in the Discord. It's a comparison of those three characters in the movie compared to how they look like in the comics. Okay. It's quite stark, you know, it's like, man. They really jar-jar-fied them.

Yeah, they are quite jar-jard. And if you love Jaja, man, you got like a lot to pick from him in this movie. They love that picture in this. It should have been Ralph Bakshi based on those things at the bottom, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Or at least have it be an animated picture. It basically is anyway, you know?

The majority of the movie is on a green screen for the most part anyway. That design was terrible. I hated those fucking characters. They were so annoying. They were very annoying. awful yeah unbelievable they would

they would introduce like temporary side characters for like one scene and pirate annoying you know yeah the pirate that weird little side quest they go on with these like

bulbous headed like things that have this ceremony where they're like all cooking food for their like king their royal leader oh do you remember like what? Maybe.

Which part? So much stuff. You don't remember that. Wait, you're going to have to describe it a bit more. This is so much garbage. Yeah. There's that whole scene. It's where Rihanna dies, you know?

Where, like, they're shape shifting as these weird bulbous. Oh, so when they were going to eat her head? No. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. That's the end of that scene. Yeah. The fat, the thick ones.

Yeah, those guys. Yeah, the thick ones. Yeah, okay. And they're doing all these weird, like, it's clearly like mocap people, like, kind of physically overacting. Yeah. You know, you can like, it's like translated through the animation. You can like see the overacting.

That's funny. Yeah, horrifying. Yeah. There's no such thing as overacting. You need to read the 12 principles of acting, actually. Yeah. Oh, sorry, Luke Besant. It seems, this movie is very long.

It feels way longer than it is. Yeah, why is it that long? It's two hours and 16. minutes and it feels like most of what takes place in the movie is just completely separate from anything else it's like a lot of short stories and it's really difficult to try and tie everything together in one fluid narrative like it it it really doesn't help that the characters are uninteresting and i don't give a shit about them i don't give a shit about their relationship i don't care if they'd survive and then just the greater narrative of like they had these like

Avatar kind of like native creatures and stuff. And the beginning it was like, oh, the planet and the thing that poops the pearls and stuff. And it's just, it's so, so much of it. Like, sure, they're trying to have this overarching narrative, like this through line. They're trying desperately. But so much of what appears in the movie is just like, hey, look at this cool little gadget. Or, hey, look at this cool little effect or creature or other side character to the universe that is instantly forgotten about or like things that he does with his gun that just

seem like very specific uses that are used for one time and before you even have a chance to think about it you're already on to something else so like there's that scene where he puts on the suit and he's running through walls and it's like oh okay I guess the suit can just like breach any barrier and if somebody has that suit they're unstoppable and you can just be like a space terrorist or whatever. And he pulls out his gun and he shoots these little like, it's in the trailer where he shoots into the space in front of him and it makes like little stepping stone platforms. And his gun can do that. And he's just running along like he's jumping on lily pads or something. And I'm just like, what like that seems like the most oddly specific use for this

contraption here. Because like if let's say, let's say you were designing something where, you needed to get from one place to another and you didn't, you know, there was a bunch of empty space. Like, you would probably just have like a pocket rope or ladder or like, you know, some sort of space version of that or like hologram like, oh, shoot that out. But like the individual pads that you have to be like running as you're doing it basically. Like what the hell? Like how does it know the distance that you want to? Oh, whatever. it's just so much of it that just seems like oh that's really cool

and then they just don't do anything more with it and it's just immediately forgotten about like that was used once it's got countless scenes like that yeah the thing he puts in his mouth and the spider comes out and make when he got they got captured and they got the goo all over them and the thing come like it's not even a breathing device it's like a thing where that they cut him out of like that's oddly specific. You know?

Quite convenient in a way, yeah, yeah. What else could that possibly be used for? Yeah. He has a gadget for everything. His gun can do so many different things. Like, you better hope you have it set to stun or freeze, like, when you want it to do that. Like, how many different settings does this one gun have?

It can turn invisible, you know? Just goes invisible in his back pocket. Fuck, they had the whole hologram, like, other universe. fucking market at the beginning. There's so much shit. They love just like random details. Like remember the little sidequests they go on where they go fishing for the cortex jellyfish? It seems like they tried to compress like 10 volumes of this comic book into like one movie.

It seems like they were just like, let's just show everything that was shown in the comics. There's probably a lot of interesting stuff. Yeah, I bet that portal gun thing is in the comics or something and it's all just references. to this stupid thing that nobody read. So the fans are very excited. And to be fair, I feel like you can make that work. Like, um, that film is Scott Pilgrim versus the world. That's basically adapting the entire comic run of Scott Polgram.

But they did it really well. They like knew what to cut out and knew what to include. So it doesn't feel too bloated. And yeah, that film flows really well. Whereas this, yeah, it just feels like, it feels so episodic. You're right. It just cuts from one thing to the next. And there's like no progression or anything.

It's just like, yep, we'll go on to the next thing now. we're going to abandon those characters and just go on to the next thing. Yeah, really weird structure. And it's like, yeah, why should I care about any of this shit? It's very difficult to. It is. The music is by Alexander Dust Plot. It was an Oscar winner now.

God, really? I didn't even know he did the music for this. That's unfortunate because I normally love his stuff. Yeah, it's like the most bland, cut, and paste, like science fiction score. Yeah, I was shocked by that. He found it in. Didn't try. I just yeah I read it on the wiki the Wikipedia I was like wow he did that holy shit yeah yeah

yeah it's not a great score definitely one of the weakest things I've heard from him yeah yeah wow that's yeah that's kind of reeling from that yeah yeah it's kind of cocky in a way like the movie feels like it's showing you these big action scenes like big space battles and it's like look at this this isn't this what you've been waiting to see yeah valerian on the big screen you know that's the kind of that's the attitude it feels like it has, but you're just like, not only have I seen this kind of stuff literally hundreds of times at this point. Yeah, Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy.

Yeah, it's a much better versions of it as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But like, yeah, I don't know what he thinks he was achieving with this. That, yeah, wasn't already done in the fifth element. And that's, man, what you were saying, Adam, about James Cameron, like, the way you feel about him, that's how I feel about Luke Busson.

at this point. Like, I just, I don't like his movie. I don't, I don't get what it is about him. What, what is it about him and his movies that justifies this, you know? Well, he had, he had a few lucky films, really. Yeah, this is just as simple as that. You just get your fifth element in your, yeah, he had things that were commercially appealing. Yeah.

he makes movies that some people like But it's like even like man Pitching this in this time period Like getting this made like That's a lot like That's a lot of money You know

A lot of money A lot of money A lot of money A lot of countries like make Yeah I'm still not sure how he did that Why did they pick Dane de Hein You could have just

You would have had more successful movie anybody but anybody but those two I don't think they could get anybody else I mean but they had $200 million exactly so that's the thing you could get anybody for that yeah I don't know if there's

like a worst duo they could have picked I don't think so either they probably gave them both a lot of money like they had other movies that they were in at the time that were successful I guess and so they were like oh okay well I guess we can put them in this I just don't know why Why would you do that?

Shocking casting. It's one of the worst things about it, yeah. It's the worst thing about it for me easily as it castor. Like I would care so much more about what was happening if I just didn't hate their screen presence. They have no chemistry with each other. Like, if they don't care, how am I supposed to care? They obviously don't.

I feel like the writing in the script, though, is like, there's nothing. There's nothing. I don't think any actor could save it. Like, what do they have going? on? Not even CP? Jesus.

I would take CP over Dane Dahan in this movie, okay? I got to say. Definitely take C.P. Over

Daneh Han. Yeah. Like, sorry, like, Herbie Hancock is in the movie.

Like, you know, the musician, like, why? He plays some, like, fucking general or

something. Like, why is he in the movie? The casting is so, fucking bizarre. Yeah.

It is one of the weirder, like, blatant, like, list of casting that is just off. There's something, like, really wrong going on here. It's either a bunch of no names or, like, people like that, like Rihanna and Herbie Hancock. Yeah, Ethan Hawke, he was, like, embarrassing himself. John Goodman was in it. Did you hear John Goodman? Yeah, John Goodman for one scene. Rickahauer for one scene.

Ethan Hawke for one scene. Yeah. What are you doing? Yeah. I just I Yeah I'm I'm very anti

Lucissel at this point Because there was one point in my life Where I just thought like Oh yeah probably the fifth element is probably a good movie And I never connected with it and just didn't know why But there was another point in my life where like I was a bit younger and I was like oh Leon the professional It's not bad

And every and I haven't seen it since But every year that passes I'm like That's kind of a fucking pedo movie It's kind of like a weird Like Do we want to be? want to call it pedophile or a fibophile or whatever it's kind of a weird man attracted to children movie you know and then i yeah what is uh fifth element uh fucking leon the professional

where like he thirsts over like a 12 year old oh yeah that's part of it yeah i think it was i think leon was um yeah i think it was re-edited like um for america i think oh maybe to like cut some of that cut some of that down a bit to make it more like a father-daughter thing than a you That's a man, whatever. Yeah, I don't know which one I've seen then. I think so. You know, don't quote me on it, but I'm pretty sure that was the case. And yeah, I think that's a great movie.

Leon the professional, but it's not like, um, like, it's not like shit like this. Like, this is like, him trying to do science fiction or whatever. This is like total fucking bullshit to me. Yeah. That was actually like a real movie, right? It's like, well, maybe. So I had, I had my suspicions about this director. and something that nobody told me to do last time with the fifth element,

but some people in chat told me to do this time, was go to his personal life section on Wikipedia. Oh, wow. And yeah, he impregnated a 15-year-old and then married her at 16. And they started dating when she was 12. And he was like 29 or something. he's 29 Oh yeah

So he's my age now So he's like he's like That's literally that's what he is So it's not even like a weird Definitely a cree Like up for debate thing anymore Like holy shit Oh yeah yeah

Oh yeah yeah I'm not debating he's a cree I'm just saying I'm just like I didn't know Like before this movie Well before this watch of this movie I didn't know that

And I just find it insane That like This isn't this isn't new shit This is very old shit This is very old shit This is very old shit And I mean he's still making

You know Lucy was very successful You know And like It's crazy how normalized Doing that was At some point in time And it doesn't seem like that long ago

Yeah Oh yeah It was maybe a decade ago Like even Woody Allen movies Were like cute Like Woody Allen movies movies come out every year And you know

All the stuff came out about him but he had a long career after those yeah that's kind of stuff came out right yeah he's a he's a weird and even like fifth element is stuff like that like like i remember milo jolovitch's character was like a head like you know baby brain or something yeah it's like that right yeah like the mind of a child i meant that i talk i talk like a baby the whole time yeah yeah there's definitely some stuff like that and i yeah it's very fucking weird and so there's this there's this featurette from, I don't know if it's from the DVD or something, but somebody uploaded it on YouTube. And at about like a minute and 45 seconds through it, if you want to

find it on YouTube, I pose it in the chat, but anybody listening, you want to find it on YouTube. It's called the title of the upload is documentary about Natalie Portman role in Leone, the Professional, 1994. And it's uploaded by like a fucking fan channel of Leone and Matilda. and it's it's uploaded by someone clearly like having this weird fascination or infatuation over like their relationship and it's like a fan page and then you you click on the video and you listen to it and there's like i think the casting director he's talking about things that leon had said and natalie portman was 12 at the time she did her audition and the casting director was like oh yeah i love her but i'm worried that she'll be too young uh for leon and then he says

in this featurette, he went to Leon and all these other girls that were like 13, 14, were too old for him. And his quote, his quote that Leon said, he said, I don't want a girl who knows sex. I want a girl who thinks she knows sex as his justification for hiring a 12-year-old in the role. That's literally, and the casting director is like saying this gleefully with like sparks in his eyes, like, as if that's just a normal thing to say on camera to like a feature Touret about your fucking movie like it was this seems insanely normalized and this was like this was

not long ago this is like if you start at like a minute 45 seconds and then just watch that whole part and the whole thing is just really like watch I'll give you as much time as you want it's fucked it's crazy like that's nuts yeah when Natalie Portman's come out

said there's like some cringy things about Leon the professional she came out and said that her first piece of fan mail was someone who had watched the film and mailed her a rape fantasy and she got that at age 13. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Like, I just... I don't know if I could go back and watch that movie again. Because it's really fucking creepy. It's really fucking creepy. And it clearly exists as this like sort of bizarre like

man-child relationship movie, fantasy movie. right and he's he's put himself in this like you know perspective of like oh i'm leone and i'm gonna i'm gonna protect this little girl you know that's so finsuit yeah that's crazy yeah a lot of people would say that's like one of natalie portman's first huge roles like it is her like she wouldn't have a career without it we wouldn't have black swan oh yeah you know like so yeah it's great for her great for her it says more about the industry too yeah that it was so normalized you are right yeah It's like crazy.

The kind of shit people would just like get away with. Like insane behavior. This clip is wild. It's fucked. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. So what is a documentary about Natalie Portman specifically, right?

Like it wasn't. I don't know. I don't know what it's from. It's just because that music they're playing with it makes it sound like a murder documentary or something. It's crazy. That is really. really, really crazy that that is like recorded. But yeah, it's only 94.

I was born that year. Yeah, not to make light of a dark subject like that. But yeah. Just saying. It's, it's like not that long ago. No, it really isn't. Yeah. And it was like, you know, it's like a major release and just people, I don't know.

Like, did people have these discussions about that? It seems like if you go back in time, you look at like any fucking rock band from like the 80s. And they're like, oh yeah, we have all these like 14 year old groupies and shit. Yeah, like fucking Kiss wrote a song. Like what is it called? Like something 60. The whole point of the song is that she's 16. And the lyrics are like, oh, I knew you were special when I saw you and I picked you up from school.

Like, holy shit. Now the same. The same guy that wrote the song is now doing the trans panic thing. like, they're grooming your kids. Like, okay, dude. You dressed up like a girl and wrote a song about like fucking a 16 year old. Okay. Look at Brian Singer, man.

Like some of the biggest films, like when I was a kid, it's like, oh, Brian Singer. Yeah. All kinds of director. Yeah, I got accused of this kind of stuff. Yeah. But even like almost famous was kind of about that, like the groupies, you know, getting emotionally abused by like the rock stars, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's very, and I think like, I think a large part of it's people were just so uncomfortable. to have those kinds of discussions, like whenever you use, like, that kind of, those kinds of words, like, petophile or whatever, like, people get uncomfortable. So they just don't even want to talk about it. And I feel like that's why so much of that kind of shit got away, like,

people get away with it for so long. Because the second you bring in words like that, people like, you know, they like look at you, like, they double take at you. Like, oh, what are you got a problem? Yeah. Especially when there's like money and jobs and power involved as well. But it's, it's fairly common. I mean, we talk about this a lot with like all these, like a lot of these directors are like kind of fucking weirdos sometimes. Not so much today or at least I hope not.

They're probably just more in the closet about it. Well, yeah. They probably just aren't doing these like fucking documentaries talking about that shit in front of the camera. They're keeping it a bit more subtle

maybe. It's hard. like separating that art from the artist because yeah there are artists who make like really good stuff and then they turn out to be kind of not kind of bad people like Woody Allen or Roland Polansky and then there's... At least those two made good movies you know

yeah yeah you've brought a what was that guy he did the shitty movie like these directors to make shitty movies like that too it's like the worst of both worlds in that case yeah powder and yeah whatever cheaper creepers

cheap oh yeah that guy I'm not going to take the find with a name. I don't know his name. Yeah. It's like that. You know, separating the art from the artist, it's a complicated situation for sure. Especially with movies like that where like Leon the professional work, it seems like so like connected to like the director's like that. That's like, that's the weirdest fucking like when you, it's a self insert character that's obviously based off Like, his ex-wife, the 15-year-old that he impregnated and then married, said in an interview that she believes that it was based off of their relationship because they started dating when she was like 12.

Man. Yeah. That's nuts. That's crazy. Yeah. What the fuck, dude? I didn't know all that shit about it. I mean, I knew the movie was like, yeah, I knew the movie was like disturbing content.

I knew Luke Bassan has allegations against him, too, yeah. That's part of what's crazy about it is like, why are we just discovering this right now? Like, why, what the hell? Like, how come I didn't know about that? How do we get a whole Valerian later and then we learn about this? Yeah. How do we get a thousand planets later? Yeah, we could have, like, we could have stopped Valerian, but we were too late.

We were too late. Yeah. The damage is done. Yeah. It does fall into that kind of like pocket of movies that feel like, they've gone so wrong that they almost feel like money laundering projects or something, you know? Like something just so deeply suspicious about it. Something just so like...

Kind of sense. It feels like the producers, this movie. It's like they're trying to make a flop so they could like collect the tax like incentive or something. Yeah, they just cast all their friends in it and like give Rihanna a little bump for no reason. That Rihanna musical scene. It was so gratuitous. You're right. It just goes on for fucking ever.

It's like why. You kind of forget you're watching like a sci-fi. Yeah. Like adventure for that scene. Because you are just kind of in like a, yeah, so like a pretty wacky, like, brothel type location. Yeah. She just keeps like, she's not like an obvious alien.

She's just like, oh, I'm in the school girl outfit. Oh, I'm the nurse. Yeah. She's doing quick change. Every single one of her costumes is like from 2017. culture and not from the future. Like school girl, maid,

catwoman, like all this shit is just so familiar. Like, you, what, has fashion not changed at all? You couldn't invent like a new costume for this shit? Did they not in the comics?

Like, why is this all old shit? It's so weird. It's so stupid. And then they just did that for one scene and forgot about it. Like all the, every,

the entire fucking movie is just like, ooh, we're doing this and then, nope, we're not, not anymore. Also, she had that line at the end of her,

fucking her strip tease saying I started doing this when I was four and I was like really lose that? Yeah that was a line in the fucking movie which she was like I started I started doing this when I was four like fuck off dude really

what is with this guy? Yeah I mean it's just like whatever we talk whatever we talk about one of his movies it just devolves into this conversation about him being a fucking creep because he just like he keeps putting shit like that in this movie it's like every fucking movie he makes is like about some weird shit like that.

He's got to, he feels compelled to just like put it in the movie. Like Quentin Tarantino and feet. Uh-huh. But that's like funny. Yeah, the foot finish is funny and also like when it's in the movie, he's giving himself jerk off wanking

material, right? Whereas like this Leupeasant, I guess he's also doing that. Yeah. I was it, you know, when I saw that in the movie, I was like, fucking creep. Just keep it in your fantasies or whatever. And then somebody sent me the link to the Wikipedia personal life section. I was like, oh, God damn it. He didn't do that. He didn't keep it in his thing. I can't believe I missed that. You're not joshing me right now because that's the thing.

I think I put on, uh, there's a clip that on the clips channel because I did a watch along to this actually. That's really funny. I miss that too. Let's see what the exact line was. Oh my God. Let's see. Okay, here we go. I just can't recommend Luke Peson movies anymore because it's always going to get to this. It's always going to be about he's a fucking weirdo. Yeah, I started at age four, is the line. That is so unnecessary. Oh yeah, there it is.

Why would you do that? Why would you put that in the movie? I'm willing to bet that wasn't in the comics. I'm willing to bet that that was Luke Besson writing that in, and it wasn't in the gun. Yeah. Yeah, his little style. Oh my God. Let's do a trunk shot.

It's my signature. Let's have the sexualized character say, also, I did this as a baby. What do you think about that? I did this as a baby, actually. Yeah, it's a cooling card. Fuck. Yeah. Pizzes me off.

Why are you putting that in your movies? Because you can get away with it, clearly. Like, yeah. It's, yeah. It's, I just... I'm so mad at him. I feel like he's gotten away with it. I mean, I'm almost, I'm just shocked by it, yeah.

The anti-chemistry he's, like, able to muster from like, some okay actors, you know? Like, well, some of these scenes are like really weird. The whole dynamic with the lead to, most of their, like, dialogue scenes is them kind of, like, grappling. they just keep going up to each other and like grappling really close up and like having these like weird discussions up close and personal and it's like I think it's supposed to be like tense and hot and heavy like uh Hans Solo and layer or something like that but it's yeah it does just feel really awkward and misplaced and yeah yeah no one normally knows what they're doing what feels like they're in everyone feels like they're in different movies everything feels

fucking awkward and misplaced yeah Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The chemistry is just awful. Oh, my God. I noticed that, like, there was a lot of shit that kind of reminded me of Mass Effect. The K-Tron were kind of like the Geth. Yeah. Yeah. And it was just, like, I was watching the movie just being like, fuck, I want to play Mass Effect, you know? Because there's no hook to this universe. The whole Thousand Planets concept is basically the Citadel. Yeah. Yeah. There's no hook to this universe in the same way that there's a hook to the Mass Effect universe. Like, there's something interesting about that universe. I I would discover more about it. Whereas this is just like, you're just showing me a bunch of, like, bland space nonsense. And I don't care. And she sticks her head inside a fucking jellyfish asshole. For like a lot of the did see is in the comic books. I saw that was accurate to the comic books.

I saw that. Why did they, when they filmed the interior shot and it's just her head, why did it show her breathing? When, like, when she takes it off, she, she's, like, drenched and water. her. But in the interior shot, there's like a minute and she's like looking at all these visions. She's like, ah, it's like they forgot. Like, you're supposed to hold your breath. Yeah. What are you breathing? But by that point, the like mechanics of how all this was working was like just floating way over my head. I just, I wanted it to make some sense. Yeah, right. You just don't even care about what's happening. Yeah. It doesn't mean anything. Like, no, down this one line that was like,

It really stood out to me of like, why did they even mention that? It was, um, in regard to the, the cortex jellyfish, we just, we just mentioned, there's this line that this guy just drops where he's like, da, da, da, da, that's where they get their hypersensitivity from. It's just like, what is that to explain why it can like, eat memories? Like, why even, you're making me, like, more confused by the information you're dropping. Just have it do it. You don't even need to explain, you know, like, it's.

There's so many mechanics at play. It's like where you're choosing to divulge is just like completely random. And then when it does like devolve into the big like action spectacle, you don't care about any of the characters. So it's like, okay. What are you showing? Why should I care about any of this? Why should I care about these spaceships flying around exploding?

And yeah, there's just nothing to hook you in. Yeah, yeah. It's just, yeah, it's really boring because you just don't. don't give a shit about anything. Like, it's, like, impossible to care. I hate the characters. I actually hate them. Like, I just wanted them to die the whole movie.

I'm like, please. Anytime it teased, like, they were in danger, I'm like, kill them. Now, they'd make the movie better. Yeah. Stupid phases. The real kind of hook is that, like, the major McGuffin of the movie, the one ring or the, like, R2D2 type thing that gets the plot moving. these little like dragon monsters these dragon pig things the pearl shitters yeah they shit

they're also like being they're being zapped with like what like uranium or some shit she's just like holding it in her hands like you're gonna get cancer why are you holding that in your hands like it's radioactive yeah they'll drop some huge important line like that in like a throwaway half sentence but then they'll divulge into this jellyfish shit like and say why are you honing in on these random facts it's like what part of this am i supposed to care about like these little pearl shitters yeah it's a perfect name for them that's exactly what's they're like that each pearl is like so dense with energy you could like power everything with them and something like that but that's not even why it was like the whole espionage part of the story where it is like yeah the avatar people that are innocent and they're they're basically killed by accident because of like a war above that was happening humans um yeah wind up just killing them by accident big oops but yeah it doesn't really involve the the energy mcuff and stuff really at all like it doesn't really matter that that's even part of it as much no no

Yeah, it's all very confused and how it like all comes together. And then, yeah, it starts getting a plot about an hour and 50 minutes in where, yeah, they start talking about the cover-ups and how it relate. But then the movie is. Yeah, the late movie exposition. That's the story. So like they had the, so the scene at the very beginning where they're all like, oh, the thing's happening. And they go into the bunker and then the one avatar girl or whatever, she's like, oh, I'm trapped outside. and then she like zaps her soul into Valerian and is like I trust you to do this and figure it out and he's like oh okay so as she dies she like sends like a beam of power

yeah like her memories like attached to them and she knew where Valerian was and she was like that guy yeah she just sends it to Valerian for some reason yeah yeah but that it happened like a long time ago or something I don't fucking know. But so, yeah. The, the, the, it wasn't, when they're behind the barrier, those of them that survive, they were actually in a ship and the ship was on the planet as the planet was being disintegrated, basically. But it was, I guess, the most structurally intact thing on the entire planet.

Yeah, allowed them to survive somehow. Even though like the planet got like, like, literally disintegrated, the ship that was on the planet and didn't move from the planet as it's getting blasted survived. And parts of it, I guess, didn't. But like, it was just enough that, oh, you know, they had their own atmosphere still and they could start life again. Like, I don't, it's so dumb. It's so stupid. It is crazy stupid. You know, it's like, it's stupid enough to carry like an hour, 10 minutes, hour 15 for being generous. But now, this is, yeah, two hours 16.

There's just too many wacky, crazy ideas, like not being honed in by anything. There's nothing, there's no reason to show this many images strung together. There's nothing that keeps it cohesive. It is so bloated, yeah. And just like, what I was going to say, our discussion is so fragmented about it because the movie has a terrible structure. It just goes from one thing than the next. And yeah, like, none of it fucking matters.

You can't even pinpoint where anything is. Yeah, like, what's the order? Yeah, it's like Batman versus Superman. You could, like, re-edit it at any order, and it would be like the same movie. Yeah, yeah, nothing like effects. The previous scene before it, there's like no knock-on effect from, like, events. Yeah, it's all, like, totally random. Yeah, like, Star Wars or whatever, that movie's structured great.

It's one of the, it's like, you know, probably one of the best screenplays ever written in terms of just pacing. And yeah, this is like fucking, it just goes from one thing and the next. Yeah, it's so episod. nothing matters like the whole movie they're introducing characters like halfway through it like does that Rihanna character

even show up in the first like hour and a half of the film it's like I feel like she's like the movie's almost over when they have her show up and then there's this whole arc and oh yeah I remember there's this scene they fight in like the throne room or whatever

she yeah she it was so boring it was so weird because she wasn't able to walk properly as they're going up to that location she's like I needed some time to practice. Why did you make me rush?

And she's hiding him inside her, so she, like, vored him a bit or something. And so they go up, and then they save his sister and from getting the top of her head eaten. And then Rihanna controlling the thick alien is able to do, like, this crazy fucking ninja flip and, like, assassinations a king. Like, literally just assassinations a king,

like in a weird side scene basically. Yeah, kind of brutally. Doesn't he like cut her, cut the brain off? Yeah, it was like, how do you like it when you cut off the top of your head?

It's too brutal for like this kind of movie. Like it doesn't, it's not like Guardians of the Galaxy where they worked that tone well. No. It's just like it was too much. Yeah. It was weird.

Well, those aliens like bad guys? Because when Dan Dahan shows up, he's just like exploding their heads like left and right. It's not like the stormtroopers or whatever. Yeah, you're right. Like normal fishermen like guys

The Valerian's a Murderian's a murderer He's just killed all these fucking creatures He's like a cop He's a federal agent Yeah That's like the framing Yeah

Just going through Just exploding the heads of You're right That's terrible She like dumps him out And then Pretends to be him for a second And tricks

His sister Oh yeah She gets mad I'm saying his sister I know, I know, because it's funny. This is a Gasper and Away movie now. Yes. Weird sister relationship.

So she was doing the ninja flips and she like assassinated the king, but then Dane DeHan says out loud, no, I want to fight on my own. I'm better or whatever. Like, just keep her, she was doing crazy shit. Why did you tell her like, oh, I want to fight on my own? You know, like, did he feel insecure after watching her do some crazy shit? Yeah. And then, yeah, they go to the next scene and then she dies immediately for no

reason. She's like actually like that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, wasn't there some line like, um, like Kara Delavine's character was mad at Dane Dahan. Like, I can't believe you were inside another woman or something like that. Or am I just imagining that? I feel like that was a line in there. Again, didn't fit the movie. I'm pretty sure that was there. Yeah. Fucking stupid. Yeah. It's like, why is that necessary? It's just cringe. Yeah. Very fever. dreamy. It also feels like it was made way too late. It feels like it more sits in

the, you know, they're really that really awkward period of movies from like 2010 where it was like John Carter, Mars and Tom's also not successful. Sucker punch. Yeah. All these you know where it's like we're kind of have the

technology in a place and we're willing to just drop these stupid budgets on something that like we haven't really thought about. trying to grab IPs from anywhere is essentially what was happening. Yeah, basically. Yeah, and just throwing money at it, thinking, like, that's what makes it successful. Before we were in the superhero thing.

Yeah. That's what actually bugs me the most about the movie, though, because it's like, damn it, you had, like, the funds, you had all this talent, and, like, Luke Besson had to, like, write the script and direct us. Yeah. You know? It's like, ah,

could have done something with this. It really, it's just like, yeah, where's the fun? Like, there's nothing fun about that movie. No.

There's no reason to watch it. It's not entertaining. When it's trying to be fun, it's just creepy. Yeah. It's scary. Yeah. If you're trying to do a high budget science fiction movie,

like make something relatable and make something like fun. Like something people want to like see, like why is there weird lines of dialogue and all this bullshit in there? And just, yeah, like a better cast really would have helped the movie somewhat. It would have been bland, but yeah, it would have been like passengers or something, but at least people would have seen that. Yeah.

What needs to be, yeah, one of the extremes, or it needed to be wackier, you know? It's like stuck in that awkward in between. It's like, yeah, there's not enough visual flare or like personal style coming out of this to justify the big kind of Star Wars approach where it is. it isn't, it isn't pulling that off, you know? Like, it isn't delivering on the things

you'd expect from that kind of movie and it isn't delivering from something wackier. It really isn't delivering anything. It is just watching a bunch of money burn. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, literally. Just for no reason, right? Like, it's not like they even believed in the concept.

I just think they might have made money back. Maybe that's what they were thinking. Like, I think Star Wars was independently financed as well. To some extent, like George Lucas helped finance it or something, but that, you know, he really believed in that and it worked. Yeah, like, he also, like, made it up. Like, he, he combined all the things he loved, all the IP, he loved,

and put the Cowboys in, he put a bit of Dune in there, put the samurai films in there, and, yeah, made his own thing instead of trying to adapt something decades after it's too late, like a Valerian. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, crazy, crazy movie. Just watching Money Burn, insane. I mean, I kind of love that as well. I love watching movies.

Yeah, I'm fascinated by it. It's the most interesting thing about the movie. Yeah. It's like there's a line in succession that Alexander Scarsgaard's character has. Like success is easy. It's like execution plus capital. But failure, that's like, you know, that's surprising. So it's like as much failure as fast as possible.

And that's like what this movie is. It's unbelievable. It's shocking. Just like such a spectacular failure. It's become a meme. It's like I know people want us to talk about it I don't think people have actually seen it

Or like know anything about it It's just like a joke Like the movie's just a fucking joke It's a total fucking joke Made by a rude French guy The name of the film Like the title of the film Is just associated with failure

Yeah The title of the film is like garbage It's just a bunch of word salad Like the title means nothing It's just a bunch of garbage Yeah. Like, you don't even know what it means. Like, why would anyone pay money to see this shit?

Well, so the city of a thousand planets is basically supposed to be like the ship that all the alien, the thing that all the aliens are on. Because the thousand planets is supposed to like represent the thousand species or whatever. Like, oh, they don't even introduce that stuff until like the last third of the movie, right? It's like so late in the movie they introduced all that. Like, oh, they're just this city of a thousand planets. I'm like, I feel like the movies, like I've been sitting here for a half, an hour and a half. And they say when they first establish it, it's like, yeah, there are nine million people on it. So, what, that's not very many?

A thousand planets? Do you really mean nine million? Like, it's like London. Nine million people from a thousand different planets. Oh, okay, each. Okay, that's a bit more. So there's like a thousand races. There's a thousand countries.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. There was like no sense of scale to anything. Like you didn't understand like all these different creatures or whatever. So there was just no impact or like consequence to anything. There was no. Nothing mattered. You know, yeah, exactly. There was no tension. Like you weren't clear like what they were even fighting for. What was going on. And yeah, we didn't really talk much about the Clive Owen stuff in this. Oh my God. Yeah. Like I really like Clive Owen as an actor. And you know, I like I respect that he's done. a lot of good stuff that I like and like children of men and I just feel like he's really wasted in this movie and it's such a shame I feel like he's a great actor and he never really got his due you know like he's never been in that he's popular for three years yeah like but he I think he's really great like I'm I wish children of men did better in like these films because I really like him I want to see more versatility from him yeah and I rewatched him shoot him up recently that's a really fun movie it's a super campy but you know he does embrace like that

that goofy character in it, it works really well, you know, it's not like total shit like this. Like, yeah, it's campy, but like, talented people are working on it. Yeah. And yeah, in this movie, he just, it's usually just, he's yelling. It's like his acting mode in this movie. Yeah. It's like yelling.

And it's like, you know, it's such a waste of a great actor in this, such a fucking waste. It pissed me off. This whole movie is a waste, man. Like, it's a waste of Ilam and wetters. you know, visual effects. Every part of it is a waste. Yeah.

It's a waste of the Valerian source material. There's a really funny line that Clive Owen says and he says, basically near the end of the movie, I am a soldier and soldiers always choose death over humiliation. Like, what do you mean? Is that when they train you? Like fucking basic training, they're like, okay, if you're going to get humiliated, you want to actually die instead. You never want to be humiliated.

What are you talking about soldiers? Are we choose death over humiliated? What does that mean? That's crazy. That's the craziest thing anybody's ever said. Oh, yeah. You didn't know that? Yeah.

That's what you're tired when your soldier is like, don't humiliate yourself. You want to die instead. Yeah, exactly. He's actually directed a film post-Valerian that I didn't know about, that I just discovered. Anna, 2019. I know. Oh, yeah.

Did you go see that one? I didn't watch it. I didn't see it. No, I didn't either. Two upcoming as well. So he's not out of business yet. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

What do you've got to do to these guys to get them to stop? Someone needs to figure it out. How do we get this to stop? What is the rule? Is it like you just have two like critic commercial successes and then you can just be like an M-night or a Luke Bisson like and just. Coast as long as it doesn't get too forever Mattel diet becomes like but at least M. Knight isn't like a weird sex

pervert like people like working with him yeah his movie suck but yeah I've never heard like M Knight's a bad guy like to work with like like what do you gain from being in a Lupusanne movie like fucking nothing nothing yeah I feel like there's been more of a like a rise against that kind of behavior now like um David Russell, like that movie Amsterdam was like a huge bomb. I don't know if it was because of it. He's a weirdo.

You don't think so? I'm sure. I don't think the average view was aware. Twitter. No, I'm not saying that, but I think like the average critic were like, like moviegoers who were like kind of like us, no, and that affected the ratings of the film. And I feel like there was just kind of like a snowball effect. Or like, you know, people didn't like him.

They didn't really care about the film. And then, you know, it just kind of spiraled. from there. And yeah, that movie sucks too. I mean, that would be a factor also. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it's too far the other direction. You make something so bland that has like no personality and it just sucks. Yeah. Whereas here he like threw in weird dialogue and like shit like that. Yeah. It's, um, it's shocking. It really is a shocking movie. Like, nothing like this comes out of Hollywood, I feel. Like even that Ant-Man movie is like a kind of mediocre, even bordering on bad, but just this movie, it has no fucking progression or anything.

Like that first 50 minutes, it's just like, it comes and goes and you don't know what the fuck is happening because there's no setup for it. And then afterward, there's no consequence for it. It, like, can be cut out of the movie. Like, the first hour of the movie doesn't matter at all. Doesn't feel like it now. It's unbelievable. Yeah, yeah.

Or it could have been, like, cut down like a 10-minute sequence. that could have been like fun. But the movie was like so much fucking time in the beginning and like setting up that alien planet and the pearl shitters and whatever. Like you see them in the beginning like that alien gets killed and like you don't fucking care about her at all. And then later you see her mom and her mom brings back the girl's ghost and he's like talking to the girl's ghost.

It's like what the fuck is this shit? And at the end of the movie like they saved the planet. And then she's like, okay, my daughter, you can sleep in peace now. and just like the ghost fucking disappears. Like what? You're not going to see your daughter ever again? Like, why wouldn't you keep the ghost around? Or I don't know.

It's just like, like, what is even going on? It's fucking random. Yeah. Pearl shitters. Pearl shitters. I love that term. Yeah. That's right.

Yeah, because it starts. And then it like jumps 400 years, doesn't it? Like, after that whole montage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like jumping hundreds of years. Yeah.

fucking bizarre for like that scene does not need to be in the movie that whole opening it just doesn't matter none of that shit matters all right uh before we give our ratings i just want to say it was really funny hearing riana say the words what good is freedom when you're an illegal immigrant without a home just hearing riana say that i was like okay like it's rana crazy movie it's not you know It's not the character. You just see Rihanna. I know you're a rich person.

Like, okay. Yeah, two out of ten. Two out of ten for me. Yeah, one star for me. It's one of those kind of spectacular failures that I've seen it two or three times an hour and, man, it's just shocking each time. It's like the amount of coordination and agreement and financing and timetables that have to be assembled. to put together a project of this scale.

Just that's all I'm thinking about when I'm watching this shit, is that like the hundreds of people that it took to organize this and like this was the end product, you know? It does just feel like a self-indulgent waste. And there is something very frustrating about that. Yeah, you know, this movie is frustrating. It does kind of make me mad. And I don't even know really why.

It's just like such a spectacular fucking bomb. And it's such a waste of time for everyone. Like, it's just such a fucking waste. Like, everything about it. I guess maybe there's some production value there sometimes. Like, you know, I do appreciate, like, the effects work sometimes. Like, those creatures, their skin was kind of, like, detailed and realistic looking, like, the rendering of, like, the lighting and, like, some of the effects.

So, you know, I'm going to give it a three out of ten, which is, like, slightly. higher than you guys. But that's like what I gave like the Fantastic Beast movies. Like yeah, I fucking hate this movie. No doubt. It's just like, you know, I'm sure there was some like visual effects artists who cared about it. And yeah, they were just like the victims of just like a really stupid vision that I'm

sure they were trying to make it work. But, you know, it's like when you start with a bad concept, there's nothing you can really do. Like there's nowhere you can really go when just the movie's fucked from. the beginning. Like, just the base idea of it is horrible. And yeah, like, they cut out, like, Valerian, they make it this, like, movie about Valerian and, and her, his sister is, like, not really a part of the movie. Like, it's, like, just, just kind of, like, a side character in the movie rather than being another main character, which is more what it should have been.

It feels like they both didn't matter. Like, just both of the characters did, the main characters didn't even matter in my... Yeah. Yeah. Experience anyway. It's just like the, yeah, really shocking character stuff, like the whole, like Clive Owens' Um, underling, like, I guess another general guy becomes head of the ship and he tries to like save the day his Clive Owen's robots attack the bridge.

And it's like, okay, so you're introducing all this other stuff now in the climax, but we don't really care about these characters. And it's just like, yeah, keep throwing in shit to pad the runtime, basically. Yeah. Really bad movie. bad and especially compared to like a lot of the good science fiction movies I've seen recently like Guardians of the Galaxy like aliens we talked about like Avatar this is like shockingly bad this is not what the audience is looking for this is not what I'm looking for shocking

empathetic and weird and yeah and that's Philean wow what a meme what a fucking meme of a movie it is a meme it's crazy how we all remember it in that we're still talking about it after 2017. It's been a while. Yeah. I remember it like a fever dream. I remember bits and pieces of it, but I don't remember a story. I don't remember like, oh, this happens and then this happens.

It's just like a bunch of random shit, like images that come into my brain, like of Dane to Han saying a corny line or whatever. Yeah. Yonnas, gratuitous dancing. I think just part of what's so fascinating. about this film and others like it, if we can name any, but just the idea of like you spent so much money on this, but what was it?

Like, you have to have a skeleton first. You have to have like a structure, like a good idea that you would want to spend all this money on. You would have to have a hook, but like, you just, you didn't start with the basics. You started with the money. money. Yeah, it seemed like it was just made with like just the conclusion that, oh, he would just do fifth element again. Yeah, he would do it again. Don't worry. Exactly. Yeah, you can

sense when a filmmaker loves the world or the characters or something about it that makes them engaged in it because that makes you engaged in it as well. You know, if like Kubrick, he made the leap, like if I find something engaging, then the audience might find it engaging as well. And I feel that's right. Yeah. Yeah, you don't get the sense that they actually like cared about this movie. All right, question time. Let's do it. Woohoo. Okay, let's do some questions from the Sardona cast community. Head over to the suggestion thread on the subreddit. Just like Butter 467 did, we can ask us questions for upcoming episodes.

With the new writer's strike going on right now, there's been this talk going on whether or not studios will start using AI to write their scripts. Do you think the AI software like chat GPT will eventually be used on movie and TV scripts or will it die off just like how NFTs died off in the crypto space? Kind of talked about AI a little bit on some of the previous episodes, but yeah, this is the most upvoted comment and it seems to be a kind of a big talking point right now, especially with those strikes. I'd not be surprised if it chatGBT and AI models have been used for a while, to be honest, in Hollywood. Well, here's the thing is, like, AI can be great as a tool to assist what you're doing.

You know, if you... Yes. If you want to have it help your writing in a way, then I'm sure that that could be a perfectly acceptable thing to do. You know, but there's, there's, if let's say you have writing, fighters block and you just kind of wanted to be like, okay, well, what, what are the possible ways that this could go? And then chat, GBT says, like, there's like five different responses, and you're like, ooh, that could be an interesting direction. I didn't think about that. And then

you'd, like, turn it into your own thing, maybe, like, that could be interesting. Or use it for notes. And yeah, yeah, I agree with you mostly. And that's like, you know, the things it's coming up with are not that much of a stretch. Like, it's probably things you could come up with if you had more time, but it's like kind of a time saving tool you know in that way but yeah I wouldn't like write like tell it to write a screenplay for me I think that's a bit much and and to be fair

I don't think it's good at that I just don't think it would be good at that I want to see one I want to see one yeah it would probably be very bland because I think I think part of the charm of it is that it's not perfect yet right now yeah right yeah

yeah I was thinking it might be useful for things like, you know, like a bunch of writers have like different quirks or different weaknesses. You might, for example, be a writer that struggles with writing younger characters or something, you know, or characters of a different gender or something. You might be able to use it to help, like, rewrite certain lines of dialogue or use it in these kind of ways. You know, how do women talk? Yeah, Tarantinovast. How do women talk? Yeah.

But I feel like that's part of the charm of certain writers is like their flaws, like how they write certain people or... Yeah, it depends what level we're talking, you know? Yeah, I wouldn't be offended if like the Meg 2 was drafted using chat GPT. It's entirely possible. Yeah, I guess not, but... Yeah. Like, why not? Like, I just, I feel like it's inevitable.

and I feel like the technology is going to get better and we'll see what happens and it opens up Pandora's box and we should be preparing for a society with universal basic income if we were smart about it and we might be fucked we might not be doing that

and we might see a lot of very bad financial outcomes for many people Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Although I don't think people will entirely just, like, embrace AI. I just don't see that happening in terms of, like, art. I feel like there needs to be some kind of creative voice that is, like, clearly part of the project. Like, I just don't think people want to, are going to pay money. I think that it will be indistinguishable at one point in time.

I think for certain movies it might be. I just, you know, I just don't see it at the time. this point, like right now. Currently. I just don't. Yeah. Yeah. At this point in time, I'm not quite there yet.

It could go somewhere. It could be like the NFT thing. You know, that is, yeah, that always is a possibility. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting how it has progressed, like just over the past 10 years. Because I think you're right, Alex. I think Hollywood's already been using stuff like that.

Yeah. Like focus testing and algorithms to figure out what people want. I mean, when you're talking. of dollars in that scale. You take any tool you need to like make the movie succeed and avoid something like Valerian. To make your investment safer, yeah. Yeah. But there's always going to be a market for like Christopher Nolan, like guy. He just like makes a movie in something he's interested in and people will go see it. I just don't see that going away either. Because human beings are people. They have certain tastes and things. And I just, I'm personally not really

interested in watching a movie written by AI. I am. I see that happening. I don't write with AI. I don't like that kind of thing. I mean, I would use it to help. I'm not opposed to it, but I'm just not really interested in watching like an AI create something. I want to see people create something and be creative. Even if it's something like the Meg, too, like there is a writer there like trying to make something like fun out of the movie, or at least you'd hope so. I know there's a lot of cynicism as well. There's a lot of like corporate hacks in Hollywood, but I'd like to believe there's some creative talent as well that should be promoted. Like, I don't want the job to, like, be taken away from writers and go to AI.

That's why I think this writer strike. I think that's part of it as well. I think that's part of their, why they striked in the first place is, like, because writers are important, and I feel that. I definitely support the strike. I definitely support the writers and that, you know, I don't want their jobs to be taken away from them by AI. I mean, I just don't.

I'm not really, I'm just not interested. and seeing a movie written by AI. I'm really not. I think there's a point in the future where an AI will be indistinguishable from a human brain. Yeah, but there still needs to be a credit there. Like, who made the movie?

I mean, yeah, but in terms of like what we're interested in seeing or how we respond to something emotionally, if we can't tell, you know, then what's the difference? Well, if you know, beforehand that an AI made it. But if you don't.

It might put you off. That's the turning test, right? To me, that's just dishonest then. Like, I don't want to be tricked. I want to know who made the movie beforehand. Like how when we, before we see Valerian, we know Luke Bisson's a weirdo. That affects our opinion. Well, I didn't know that before I saw Valerian.

And the movie still sucked. I think, yeah, I mean, like, I would be interested in being able to try and guess. I would be interested in not knowing and then trying to find out at some point, you know? What if it's so commonplace in the future using AI to write that it's not a story when the movie comes out and you would actually have to search up the movie and be like, oh, who wrote it before you watched it, right? Like, I don't search up the writer for every single movie that I see. I'd do it for most probably. So I don't know. There could be a point in the future where like, it's like, oh, that was written by an AI.

And you didn't know until after. Under a pen name. Right? Yeah. But we're also thinking like, I don't know, just technology advancing can lower the barrier to entry in such a way, especially with things like storytelling with. Yeah. I'm just picturing like a future where there is some version of like Unreal Engine that,

yeah, I think it's free. I think it's free now. And like you only have to pay if your product sells over. a certain amount. But if we're talking like 3D spaces that are photorealistic and you can use like AI like prompts to like position cameras and all of a sudden you've got like a totally open landscape of like well, just like now you can whip your mobile phone out and make a YouTube video and edit it on your phone and this stuff that would have been impossible to do 100 years ago. That's how I think it's cool. I think it can bring new voices to the table because there are more

tools available to them? Like, what if someone is, let's say, dyslexic and they have a hard time writing and now this tool helps them write? Like, maybe that, no, now we have a new voice. I think that's a good thing. I think you're totally right about that. I just don't want it to replace artists. Yeah, it's like, I support it as a tool. I think as a tool, it's a great thing. I just don't think it should replace artists. I think that's a bad idea. It shouldn't replace artists, but it inevitably will. And there's going to be a point in time where only the best artists that can't be replicated, that can provide an experience that AI can't yet. There's going to be a point in time where there's going to be like a cutoff period where people are going to have to get really

fucking good at what they do if they want to compete. I just think like, yeah, I've said this before, like our jobs are going to get replaced by technology. That's just inevitably where things are heading, almost no matter what job you have at this point. So we need to start figuring out economically how we're going to deal with that and we need to do that yesterday and it's kind of just... Yes, a little bit.

That's the looming threat right now. Because right now we still think in terms of like, oh, my job needs to exist so that I have a job. When that's not why your job exists, it's to provide a service, right? So if a machine can do the service better than you, then you're going to get replaced. That's what happened to the automotive

of industry in the United States, you know, like, there's a lot of, you know, factory jobs that people got replaced by machines and, yeah, the whole industrial revolution. Yeah. I guess we can end this question on this kind of thing. Do you consider, like, in the realms of, like, video games, do you consider a procedural animation on a character,

like, not art then, or, like, they do that with a different bucket? mouth movements, at least, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. For like almost every single game. Yeah, exactly. If someone programmed the technology or program the AI to do that, then I would credit them. So where's the line then when you start, yeah, you start attributing it to the AI instead of the person who implemented the AI.

Like, do you credit the person, I guess you credit like the Photoshop software, but you also credit the person who used it? Like, depending on, it depends on how exactly you're doing it. Because, like, when you use, like, the paint can tool or whatever, like, the artist isn't individually writing every single pixel, you know, they're not, like, clicking on every pixel being like there and there and there. Like, there's procedural things that exist in current art. There's, you know, water animations and physics in 3D software, right? Like, do you credit the individual who wrote that code?

Kind of when you're just saying what software you used, but not really, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, like, Spotify, I have a playlist, right? And then I, you can do this thing where Spotify can, like, enhance your playlist and add songs for you, right? But I'd still say it's like my playlist, like the music it picked, for the most part, it was like solid music that I think would fit. my taste, but some of the choices are like, you know, it's just my thing with AI, it's

janky as fuck. It's just like, sometimes it's not right. And you need someone to come in and like fix it. And I don't think we're going to get there for a while to where it's like absolutely perfect that you can't even tell. You never know. Yeah, I guess you never know. But I guess that's just the thing.

We don't know. It could go the way of NFTs. Yeah. We don't know the effect. will have. Mm-hmm. And if it isn't now, it might be, it might be 10 years down the line. Or maybe, you know, someone comes in and, like, talks to Congress or whatever, like,

hey, can we do something about tech companies, like, and slow this kind of down to, like, so we can catch up. They've had this conversation, I think. I think the cat's out of the bag. It's, like, open source now. Yeah, it just moves so fast. Mm-hmm. They move so fast this stuff.

And, like, people can't even keep up. Yeah. Yeah, so like Terminator's about Skynet, you know, it just takes over. Yeah. No, I do love these conversations. I think it's an interesting Pandora's box that's been open with all this. Yeah, I'm excited to see where it goes, if I'm not a little bit frightened. Oh, yeah, I'm frightened. It could be the end of everything. Yeah.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, whatever. Could be, yeah. So, nukes could have been the end of everything, right? That's true, yeah, yeah. Maybe that's, like, kind of what Oppenheimer's about. Like, no. On the subtext, the sub-level.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that movie. That doesn't feel AI generated, you know? There's no, like, AI saying, like, yeah, you should make a biopic about Oppenheimer in, like, 1940. So I think there's an appeal to that, just to me personally. So who's doing Oppenheimer and Barbie the same day? I know I am. The same day.

Got the same release day. I was definitely the same weekend. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting double feature. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds good.

That would be a fun episode. All right. Let's do another question. Let's do this one from Blumer 467. Excuse me. This is a question for Ralph and Alex. Since you guys are fans of the acclaimed animated show, Avatar, the last What's your opinion on the upcoming Netflix show that the creators openly expressed their

dissatisfaction with and their new projects by Avatar Studios from Paramount, which will be held by the original creators and have three animated movies continuing the stories of the original and sequel series. Thanks guys, you're the best. Oh, wait. Gosh, that's a lot of Avatar, huh? Yeah, yeah, I didn't know they were, I didn't know they didn't prove of that live action show. I've heard of it. What was the other thing, though, you said? The, like, three animated movies, there are the homes of that? There's an upcoming Netflix show that they're dissatisfied with, but then there's Avatar Studios, which Paramount runs, are helming three animated movies, continuing the stories of the original and sequel series. I wonder how they feel about those.

Live action last airbender is a bad idea. A horrible idea. It's also the showrunner is Michael Goy. Oh, wow. What the fuck? Another weirdo. Remind me. I mean, who's this? Megan is missing.

Megan is missing, right? Oh. That's the show, right? Yeah, that's, he's responsible for the whole thing. Yeah, all the teenage people are talking about like sucking off guys or whatever. Yeah, fucking weird dialogue. Come in my mouth and you all. It's like what kinds of weird shit like that?

It seemed like another weird Luc-Bissant fantasy thing. And he's helming Avatar. That's the showrunner for an Avatar Netflix show. Yeah. That is, oh my. Okay, I was filmed in Vancouver. I know some people that worked on it. That is like the worst person you could have picked.

Like, like, aside from Lupusanne. Like, you might as well pick Lupus on it. Holy shit. What is Netflix's problem? Why do they insist on this? Have they ever successfully adapted, like anything? Like a remake? An anime?

But like, even in anime, like, Cowboy Bebop show. That came and went. That was fucking horrible. I didn't even watch that show. Yeah, that was a disaster. Yeah. So it's like, why are they trying that again? It's such a bad idea to like adapt to anime. I don't know why they even bother. Like, what are they hoping to accomplish? Yeah, no one likes it. Like, I'm not looking forward to it. And yeah, Michael Goye, I have no faith in him making a good show. Like zero, like negative 100% faith in him doing anything. as like a fucking joke. Yeah. They must have looked at the last time they did

Avatar the last Airbender in live action and thought, yeah, that's a good idea. Let's expand on that. Yeah, weird, weird,

crazy idea. I could, I could approve of one standalone two-de animated Avatar movie if there was an idea for it. Whereas I just,

I'm fundamentally against this idea of like, green lighting five projects in this IPs universe before we even know if people want more or if the new stuff is good it's like so cut before the horse to me yeah it just screams of desperation and like every every studio is doing it and it's like man when I was reminded of like even this new spiderverse that's coming out there's like two parts and like this fast and furious movie is now like being spread into three parts it's just like can we just chill for a second I know you're desperate for this to not end and you just want it to go and go and go, but it's like, man,

at least make it a little bit obvious that it isn't just this machine wearing in front of us. Like, I quite like to watch like a movie at a certain point. Right, right. Some things just have a shelf life and then that's it. It's like part of that time and then you move on and yeah, it's desperate to try to recapture it. Because you're playing with fire otherwise as well. When you're playing with sacred things like that, you know. Like, it can go catastrophically wrong.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, have they ever adapted an anime successfully Netflix? Like, never. Yeah, it's what death note. Yeah. Oh, yeah, death note. Oh, man, that was really bad too. Yeah.

People are going to hand you for calling it an anime, Ralph. Oh, yeah? Because it's not from Japan. Yeah, they will. That's true. Yeah, it's an American animation. Yeah. Yeah, in an anime style.

Almost an anime style, yeah. You know, to Netflix, it's an anime. You think they give a shit? To them, they don't care. Yeah. They just see it as another product. I mean, like the, like, you're right, Alex, like green lighting. I hate that too.

Just like green lighting, three movies before the first ones, even successful. Like, I remember Netflix, they released that Fear Street movie. And it's like a trilogy of horror movies. It's like, why don't you make, like, one first that's like good before you make three of them yeah it's really like putting the cart before the horse it's just not compelling

like yeah it's probably one they're probably shitty honestly I even watch them so I just want to issue like a little bit of a correction so the title of showrunner is Albert Kim whereas Michael Goy is executive producer cinematographer and directed a bunch of the episodes hmm

So, um, okay. He's heavily involved, but not. Still, not interested. Yeah.

Not interested. Yeah. Avatar is a great part of my childhood. I'm going to leave it there. Yeah, why can't I just stay? Is that? And Cora was okay,

I guess. Yeah, I liked it. Pow, right in the childhood. So, yeah, just let it be.

Yeah. Got him. It's that nostalgia money. I mean, maybe it'll introduce a new generation, a last airbender, hopefully.

They'll go, this show sucks let me watch the 2D one and then go wow that was amazing so that's good at least alright that was fun I guess yeah that's it yeah is that it that will do it yeah yeah yeah we I don't want to go

no it's okay I don't want to wait for our lives to be here okay Alex I guess it's your turn to recommend yeah it's my turn it's my turn to recommend I actually did have something lined up but when I heard Valerian was coming into our midst, I'm going to have to tuck that one away, and instead I'm going to whip this bad boy out.

Oh, man. So this is a movie I've seen a long time ago, and it's almost single-handedly responsible for nearly bankrupting an entire company about being Final Fantasy, The Spirits Within Haven't seen that one in a while. 2001 animated movie. Wow.

Okay. Never heard of it. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy movie. From what I remember, 2001. Nice. Jumping in the movie space.

We've been talking about video games a lot. This will have some nostalgia, yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, I've never seen it. I saw it when I was a baby. Alec Baldwin. Yeah.

Yeah, I think it'll be an interesting conversation. Sweet. Yeah. It's really strange. Yeah. Definitely outside of my, like, wheelhouse. which is good. Yeah, I'm curious what you'll think.

Yeah, Alec Baldwin? Oh, wow. I'm surprised at the cast of it. Okay. Yeah, Steve Bishemi. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cool.

Thanks, Alex. All right, if you don't want to be spoiled for Final Fantasy, The Spirits Within, 2001. Watch it before the next episode. These episodes come out every two weeks. You can listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com.

Signing up for premium, it's only $2 a month. Also, patreon.com slash sardonicast will get you the same thing. thing. You can support the show and feel good about yourself and will feel good about you because you're better than the people that don't donate money. It's true. We also got merch. Link in the description. We also have a Sardonicast Highlights channel on YouTube. You can subscribe to. Thank you very much. Have a happy thousandth planet. Happy Valerian, everyone. Yeah, fuck that. Happy

Valerian. Wee. Bye-bye. Me.