Sardonicast - Sardonicast #14: M:I - Fallout, Fantastic Planet

Episode Date: August 15, 2018

Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/9vG73zS Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthe... Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovi... Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Ralph's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ralphthemovie... Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkind... Fan Art: https://www.reddit.com/r/YMS/comments... Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 2:00 - Neil Breen and Twisted Pair 9:43 - Old Movies 32:58 - M:I - Fallout 56:00 - Fantastic Planet 1:23:45 - Les Escargots 1:27:07 - Q&A Ralph's Recommendation for next episode is Punch Drunk Love (2002).

Let's do it. Yeah. Ooh. It's a Coke zero. Oh, nice. But I do also have a beer. That's irrelevant. Anyway, three, two, one.

Hey, Sardonicast. Michael here. We're Sargonquist. I'm not Michael. My name's Adam. I was making fun of Vsauce, a man who I love very much, who has a great series on YouTube Red called MindFee.

field that I really enjoy. It is possibly the best series on YouTube Red, or dare I say it, the only good series on YouTube Red. Yeah, that's what I was going to say, because it's like, it's better than the rest of the YouTube Red stuff, so people say it's good. But it's not okay. It's really great. It's awesome.

Anyway, I'm Adam from your movie sex. Yeah. I'm Ralph from Alf the Movie Maker, YouTube.com slash Ralph the Movie Maker. Got them. Ha! Ha! Got him. Yeah, yeah, right.

We get it. Chill out. What are you on at the moment? You should talk that loud the whole episode. I'm Alex from Aichi. Hi Alex, how are you? Terrible. You said it's so weird. It's like I didn't even hear A.E. I heard Aichi.

Aichi. Alex from Aichi. Ralph? Just kind of frightened me as all. Sorry, Alex. You got startled. You could say it again if you want. No, I'm good. All right.

Awesome. We don't need to. Exactly. We got a trailer. There's a new trailer for a new film, a very special film. It's called Twisted Pear, the new Neil Breen film. It's going to be awesome. He originally promoted it as the title Twisted, but now I guess it is revealed that it's about two characters, so it's twisted pair.

And it kind of sounds like a fruity Mike's Hard Lemonade drink or something. Yeah. He said it was a temporary title twisted. Either way, I'm sure the film will be delicious.

So what we're going to try to do here is we're going to try and watch a trailer together through screen share. You're not going to be able to see it, obviously, if you're listening on audio, But if it's not a complete mess We'll edit it as its own video on the channel and we might actually Not even include this part. You might not even hear this. I might edit this out what I'm saying right now

Yeah, maybe Who knows Anyway, we're gonna watch this trailer Do we get a do a three to one when you start it Okay Three two one clap, you mean? I don't care just fucking whoever's controlling the video one snap oh yeah okay you guys see it right I see I can see it yeah it looks magical all right it looks fucking great is this is this we're gonna probably

pause this a lot is this avatar that is what it looks like actually I was wondering what it was what was that it was whoa it's one of them a giant so he's just far away so there's two of them perspective yes one of them has a beard twisted pair Oh, so it's like twins, okay. I don't know if he has a beard yet. But he will. I love how much he loves animals. Holy shit.

Wow, his budget really went up a lot. He has improved as a filmmaker. And this one, he also has a documentary crew with him, right? That's what he said at the beginning when he was pitching the movie and doing the Indigo-Go-Go thing. He hasn't mentioned that since. And I'm worried that he got rid of them or something. Oh no. I don't know.

We'll see. I would love to see him. I'm just trying to put this together based on the imagery. What is happening? There's the beer. I'm sorry to grow beard that kid. Yeah, me too. Programable matter.

Very dramatic. So that's like a classroom. In a school A high school he managed to infiltrate on the weekend they let him in No they hacked into their database He hacked into the database he registered himself as a student Because he's the best hacker Woo whoa

That was nice Holy shit dude I'm just excited What's funny is you hear him talk about this he's like It's completely different from any other movie I've made Almost trying to like distance himself from the meme and take himself more seriously. I don't know. It looks pretty similar to other things he's made No, it looks like well he's not a super god this time. I will actually I mean look at him He's got powers Alright, I take it back

He's just more showy about his powers this time talking with everyone No, he can be yeah, he's genuine He's a real human brain. And he's not caught on like Birdemic 2 style. No, he's caught on. He just refuses to pander towards the comedic crowd.

He's just an artist. He believes in his vision and his films are so complicated that if somebody laughs at it if somebody laughs at it, he gets to say oh no, you just don't get it. He's able to compartmentalize them

as people who don't understand his vision. that's why he's able to keep continuing, creating these masterpieces. This trailer is so long. It's a long trailer. Are you sure this isn't the movie? He definitely edited this trailer.

I love this pink tree. Two minutes, ten seconds. Like, that's the max. I don't think he understands that. Or he willfully breaks the rules. Everyone has the right to love. Yeah, I don't think he willfully breaks the rules. I don't think he knows what he's doing.

What? He's got style. Breen me, daddy. He's got a shiny heart. So Neil Brin just stared at the camera for fucking like 20 seconds for those of you wondering. All right, so I'm assuming when this is released, people will kill themselves like Avatar so they can enter this world. So they can be with Neil Breen in the afterlife. That's my impression at least, because this looks glorious.

Is that what you're going to do, Adam? We should do it, like, together on SardonnaCast. Suicide Pact. Like, have a live stream. Oh, yeah. We have a suicide pact, and we live stream it. Yeah, that's a good idea. Do it, like, in the happening where you go into the, like, cage of the lions.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I would do that. I totally do that. Except I'm not into VOR. If I was, that would be perfect. That was great. Have you seen all the other Neil Breen films?

see you guys? I'm a big fan. I've only just seen people's various videos on them. I never actually sat down. Oh, really? You gotta do it. You can't. It's not like other like good bad movies where it's like impossible to enjoy without someone's commentary. This is, I've watched fateful findings by myself. It is so good. Really? Yeah. Oh wow, exactly. Okay, you're selling me on it. I might give it a show. Is that the one

I should start with then? Fateful findings is my favorite. Although what's weird is like Everybody seems to have a different favorite, but I would say fateful findings is his best. So far. I'd say most people think fateful findings is the best one. I think so. I would hope so. But there's a surprising amount of variety. The first one is in all that good.

Yeah. What's his first movie? Double down. I am here now. Double down is his first. I am here. Now is his second. And then what was the other one called?

Pass through. Pass through. Yeah. Which one of them's the one where it's his stock footage. the desert. That's double down. On his laptop. Okay. That one's like kind of irritating to get through because it's so repetitive. Yeah, exactly.

That one's kind of irritating. Yeah, they're really boring. Like that one, you need to have an audience with you of drunk people who are just as confused as you are. Exactly. Faithful Findings is just a great movie. It's a masterpiece. You can watch that. A legitimate master's about that too. Sorry,

I don't know. I've got my throats a little I don't know Everyone's screaming today Yeah I know we're in a very Screamy energetic mood It's because Nail Breen has blessed us with a new trailer Yeah that's why there's a lot of exciting things to talk about today I'm excited to talk about Fantastic Planet which we're not going to do yet obviously

Oh yeah Very excited for that I'm excited that you're excited for it What we do Sorry It's just a much of plan Oh what's happening What we do have is a discussy

Guys I'm dying I don't know what's happening Yeah are you okay I'm not There was I said something on the last episode That Respectfully and very justifiably Got a bit of criticism

And I say a bit because it was a bit It wasn't a lot of people that were criticizing me over this Because I think that most people are kind of as ignorant as I am on older movies. So I got away with it for the most part. But I still want to address it. We were talking about Citizen Kane, and I said that most movies made before Citizen Kane

didn't understand narrative structure and were essentially just people pointing a camera at things and hoping it would look cool. Although I was being hyperbolic, because the example that I gave was Dumbo, which is a movie that is obviously not that. What I said was objectively untrue because there are a lot of films pre-citizen Kane

that do understand narrative structure and are not just people running around with a camera. So I'm not even sure why I said that because I'm already aware of films like M and Metropolis. You can just scour the I am. db top 250 for any pre-1941 movies that you would have to assume have some narrative structure and although I am still not fluent in 1900 to 1940 filmmaking. I'm not sure why I was under that impression. It was just one of those things where it's like Citizen Kane is is kind of put on this gigantic pedestal of

being this film that changed everything. And so I was under the impression that part of what it changed was like narrative formulas because the only films that I'd seen pre-citizen Kane were like a trip to the moon, which is just nonsense. I mean, it looks cool, but it's like pretty much exactly what I was describing. That's when film was a novelty that was way back when, when they weren't even really concerned with telling stories it was just like a like there's that the yeah train film yeah exactly

pulling into a station like that's the way films were for like not a long time but for quite a few years so I I got the dates wrong let's just say that and I for some reason forgot that the films like M and Metropolis exist and that they were pre-citizen Kane however yeah citizen Kane's 1941 so there were a lot of films with narratives Before that.

Apologies for that misinformation. I do like to take any opportunity that I can to turn a negative into a positive. So I would like to start a discussion on the importance of older film because I'm interested to hear about what you guys think of film history and what it means to you and what it means to film. criticism in general because part of how I feel about older film is I'm almost intimidated to really dive into it full force because with older film comes this this really kind of like claky attitude like this dick measuring contest with some people. I'm just like, do you really enjoy it or are you just bragging about how old the films you've seen are. And there's legitimately, genuinely, people out there. And I'm not trying to say

everybody who loves older film is like this, but there's legitimately, undeniably, people out there that think that you legitimately cannot have any meaningful discussion on current film if you aren't well-versed in film history in the 1900s through 1940s or however old they arbitrarily want to decide you have to go. Yeah, well, film history is important. Oh, of course. That's probably why they feel that way. It's incredible, like, you got to know how we got here.

But yeah, to invalidate other people's opinion for that reason is fucking stupid. So you were saying that you've seen a decent amount of older films, Ralph. Yeah. Would you like to talk about them? Because I'm actually interested in what you've seen. And I want to know specifically what you think kind of contradicts. what I said, that hyperbolic nonsense untrue statement that I said about Pre-Citizen Kane not necessarily understanding narrative structure that well.

Yeah, well, you're kind of... They understood narrative structure well. They had like a very template formula, story structure that they always used. And Citizen Kane was revolutionary because it was much darker and more mature than most films like that and it was like the first one of the first rise and fall stories at least from what i know again i don't know everything one of my fucking i'm 21 i'm a film student i don't know anything but like from what i've seen yeah citizen cane is definitely like you look at other movies from that time they don't hold up nearly as well as citizen cane like the acting and the the dialogue is much

more mature and grounded for a film in that time which is why i still love it yeah so i wasn't really that far off because that's basically what I was getting at yeah you were getting at like films were still figuring themselves out yeah exactly and I mean like it really seemed and of course you can only say this from a perspective as you know

all three of us are in our 20s all three of us have only existed on this planet for so long and so you can only have a limited perspective when it comes to things that happen close to 100 years before you were born or You know, close to 50 years before you were born, let's say. Obviously, Dumbo is not a film where people just pointed a camera at something and hoped it looked cool. So I wasn't being super serious when I said it, but I went out of my way to watch Metropolis, actually.

I watched that last night. Fritz Lang. Yeah, Metropolis is cool. It's one of the pre-citizen Kane films that I've been looking forward to the most, and I really enjoyed it. However... Pre-citizen Kane. It's like an... era. Well, I guess. I mean... I mean, I guess there's probably other way of phrasing it, but yeah, pre-Citizen

Kane era. I really enjoyed it. I thought visually looked amazing. However, I was really hoping, based on how some people were reacting to my comments, I was really hoping for me to just put it in, and by the end of it, my worldview is challenged, and it's something that I can say, like, oh, yeah, this definitely had, you know, as good, if not better narrative structure than Citizen Kane, but it didn't. And I don't feel like... No. I legitimately tried to challenge my worldview,

and by the end of it, it was like, well, yeah, I mean, they clearly didn't have as much of a grip on narrative structure in this film as Citizen Kane or anything after Citizen Kane, not anything, but... Or character work. I think that's more specific than like...

All the characters in Metropolis are very one-dimensional. I mean, it's fine. It's a totally different time they made that movie. And they had... Their goals with making it were to make that groundbreaking futuristic world. And everyone saw it for the effects, right? They didn't see it for the story or the characters.

It was just a different way of making movies. Yeah, I agree with you, Adam. It's not like, it's not like when you watch these older films, you're like, oh my God, I didn't know what true film was until I saw this. I've never had that experience with it. I think that some people legitimately do love and appreciate these older films in a completely different way than we do. Because when I watch a film like Metropolis,

I'm experiencing it and I'm mostly interested and engaged of the context of the time period associated with the film how it was made the effects, the limitations for the time and then I wind up giving it a bunch of extra credit

for like okay they had shitty acting but what could you do it was the 1920s you know or like okay this doesn't make sense in the story but what could you do it's the 1920s and even though I'm able to watch experience appreciate and even call it a masterpiece for its time. At the same time,

I feel like when I'm watching a film like that, I'm doing it as kind of like homework rather than entertainment, you know? Yeah. And that's not to like delegitimize it because obviously it plays a very important role in history, film history, and you know, to the genre

and inspiration of other directors and even designs, especially for a science fiction film like that, so so old. But it's, it's completely different from the experience that I seek for. What audiences value now and what like they did back then is different too. And our attention spans are very different.

I think it comes down to the fact that like art history and being an artist are two different things. Like you don't have to just be one or the other. So you can still be a really good artist without having all the appreciation for decades or even hundreds of years worth of art. to get something out of it and of course you're going to have to start somewhere and it would be foolish to completely ignore the history that is out there and of course it's important

but you do have to start somewhere and of course you're going to stay within the boundaries of what you're familiar with and you'll gradually the more knowledge you grow will reach out and do your research and find out and learn and that's what this whole process has been for me anyway I'm gradually going back into older films

and learning more and more as I'm sure we all are as you said we're all in our 20 for God's sake. Yeah. Films build upon each other over time. And that's like we've kind of perfected or at least gotten better at certain elements of movie making that we weren't good at back then.

I mean, I can't get emotionally involved in a movie like Metropolis because I don't like the characters. I did it at a couple moments. It's, you said shitty acting. I don't think it's shitty acting. There was some shitty acting. It's definitely theatrical. No, there are some shitty acting. It's, yeah, even for that scene.

But it's like exaggerated. And then they're clearly, they're going more for a play mentality in terms of all that, which is what films were at first. They just recorded plays. And that's what they thought they were. It was like a good tool for recording plays. And then over time, they perfected it and found out, oh, if you move the camera here. And maybe if the actor calms down a bit, because he's not acting for people who are sitting in

the back of the room, you know, the camera's right there, maybe that would be more effective. And that's how movies got better. Yeah. So, yeah. This is part of the reason why I really wanted to have a. like this podcast be kind of like a film recommendation sort of thing because it kind of forces each of us and also anybody listening to kind of go out of their shell and be like oh here's a movie I haven't seen before but they're recommending it and so we're you know it's part

of the actual podcast and if I want to listen to the next one and be a part of the discussion or listen to it and not get spoiled I guess then I guess I have to watch it you know it kind encourages people to check new things out and just step out of their comfort zone. There are some things you guys recommended that I probably wouldn't have watched otherwise. Yeah. Well, I was like, oh, okay. Let me see what this is though. Well, it's like a film book club, basically. Yeah. It's a film club. Yeah. I feel as though, you know, despite me obviously being like not as well versed on like super old film as anybody who went to film school, I feel like if I did spend my efforts studying film in that way,

then I would know less about contemporary film. I feel like there's only a certain amount of time in one's day, you know. Yeah, that's a trade-off too. And I feel like as a guy that spends a lot of my time watching movies, and still, literally it's impossible to see every movie that comes out in a year even, right? It's not possible because there's so many films being made. That's the thing I've noticed, too. All the guys I know who are like, because I go to film school,

there's all these, like, students and professors who watch all these old movies. And they hardly ever watch new movies, most of them. Yeah. Just stick with their old classics. And they either don't like the way movies are made now and they just never watch them, or they're just more interested in movies from that hour

than they are movies now. And why they're interested, I mean, you could say they're just jerking themselves off to how many foreign fucking, black and white 1940s movies. French new wave. French new wave. Yeah, French new wave.

Look how many French new wave movies I've seen. But like, they are allowed to enjoy those things. Oh, yeah. I don't want to delegitimize someone's interest. I mean, either. If it's genuine. We're gonna fuck with you anyway. However, I will still say that it's pretty fucking apparent

and pretty fucking obvious to everyone in the world that a certain amount of those people, whether the interest is genuine or not, do treat it like a dick measuring contest which I don't think any genre or era of film ever should be because I I feel like

my strengths are in current foreign or independent films and I definitely hold some sort of purpose out there in the YouTube sphere of just being a guy that can

recommend movies to people that they might not have seen before and will enjoy. But I don't ever want to become a person that's like talking down on people because they haven't seen something, you know? Like, I feel like that's completely different because like it's, I want to share my passions to somebody else. I want to, I want to share the experiences that I found and I want other people to enjoy them and I, you know, I share what I think other people will enjoy too. Yeah. But yeah, it's, it's, uh, obviously. a very different context if we're talking about film history because the film's coming out today

although they are a part of film history by technicality there's no telling exactly how relevant a film will be in the chronology of film history until enough time has passed yeah it's whole fucking years later yeah 20 years maybe 20 years you'll you'll understand if a movie is actually good and has a significant impact on on on history Yeah, exactly. Like we all know Pulp Fiction. I mean it's been apparent since like ten years after Pulp Fiction or even less You know yeah, still now you see some hints of Pulp Fiction lying around some movies Yeah, like yeah there's films coming out in current day that are Changing norms and inspiring other directors and I think that's very cool like black panther

Yeah, the best I mean black panther had an old black cast and that was pretty impressive. And that made a lot of money. That was cool. That's another thing about old movies you gotta get past. Is that any movie pre-1970 is probably really racist and really sexist. And I've seen some of these fucking movies. Except Night of the Living Dead by George Romero.

Yeah, that's probably the only one. That was one of the breakthrough moments in film history where a black actor was cast as a character that had nothing to do with being black as part of the role. He was just like, oh, this guy's the best actor, let's hire him. Yeah. Which is like something that was literally unheard of before that point. What year was that? 1959 or something?

I thought it was like early 60s. Night of the Living Dead? It was black and white. Let's see. Yeah, you check for me. Night of the Living. Well, it was low budget too. So like, every filmmaker's shot on.

Every filmmaker's first. Oh, shit. Okay. Yeah, every filmmaker's first features usually black and white because it's fucking expensive. Yeah, even like Aronovsky and like Nolan and like Kevin Smith. Yeah, Kevin Smith. Of course. This is like anything before the digital age, if it was low budget, that's how it worked.

Uh-huh, which is cool. Wow, that's even more embarrassing now. That like... What, that you were 10 years off? No, no, not... I don't care if I'm 10 years off about that. Yeah. I don't really give a shit.

about whether or not I was 10 years off. It's more embarrassing because I thought that it must have been in the 50s because there had never been supposedly never been a black actor cast for a part that didn't require him to be black in it before that point and it was a huge controversy

right? Because that's part of that film's history as I understand it. I think so. I mean... That's literally 1968? Night of the Living Dead? Mm-hmm. That's fucked up. Yeah, dude. Okay. Yeah, it was fucked up.

You watch these James Bond movies and like, God, the black people are like fucking cartoon characters and like the comedic relief. Women in every movie pre-1970 is like just the wife and that's it. Yeah. They're all like, you know, they're at home with the kid. All right, honey, I'll see you around. They get slapped some of them. It's fucking like. So that's something you got to get past too with these old movies.

You just got to accept it. Like, yeah, it was a different time. It was a totally different time. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Man, times have changed. And that's also... For the better. For the better, yeah.

In that case, it's important. And like I said, I guess just to wrap things up, I don't know. Alex, you haven't really said much on this. You kind of gave your two cents, but... Yeah, I'm just with you guys. I mean, I obviously don't know that much about it. I haven't studied it or gone to film school in the same way. Someone like Ralph has, but...

Losers. he's smarter than us help I'm really not but go ahead you do see echoes of you know history through like contemporary work like the way at the moment everything is made by people who grew up

in the 80s so that's all reflective of things back then and so on and so forth like it just repeats itself so it's not like we're ignoring it on purpose or you know being ignorant on purpose it's like as you said there are only so many minutes to the day and chances are I'm gonna stick to something I'm more familiar

with. Yeah. I want to go through every you know great film of every decade I really want to you know? Yeah yeah same but again it's like I have some. Hold on. Please yeah

recommend me some. Well night and living dead is one of them well that's not pre-citizen cane though dude yeah that's not pre-citizen cane yeah I mean because I'm not really I'm not really unfit. That's a Hey, Pre-Citizen Kane. There aren't a lot of movies I like. There's King Kong from 1933.

I mean, that's what people are... Oh, yeah, I've seen that too. I just haven't rated that on... That movie's awesome. Yeah. All right, so how about next episode? I think I saw Nussferatu. Pre-1940s.

But I think I saw the weird score version. A lot of older films, like silent films, they'll have DVD versions of like, this one has a metal soundtrack or something really weird. Oh, yeah? So you got one of those? I don't... Well, because I watched it in drama class,

and I think that's what my teacher put on. This was a while ago. Metallica version of Nostratu. Something like that. There was apparently a Giorgio Marauder, whatever you pronounce his name. A version of Metropolis that he was in charge of the composition for and had a bunch of famous artists.

I think David Bowie, I don't know if I got that right. But yeah, there was like an hour and a half version of that movie. But I saw the complete one last night anyway. and now I'm smart good for you now you can lecture everyone on what real film is yes I'm not an expert in pre-1940s

like stuff really more 50s 60s I can't even really speak to older movies like that I know a little bit how insecure does that make you feel yeah my dick just shrunk five inches dude well what do people expect

is there like a list that's like you have to have seen all these films and study them in detail they're fucking ones and no one's I mean I'm already aware of which films I need to see There's tons of movies you need to see Exactly There's always going to be a fuck ton of movies

That you need to see It's completely irrelevant to like make this list of movies and go okay If you're a true cineophile This is the movies you got to see It's like fuck you I guess also like Personal taste and preference has to come into it too

Yeah Some people don't like brutal dramas Some people don't want the misery of Lars von Trier Some people like to enjoy filmmaking. Like, enjoy their experience in a cinema. Anyway, I guess just to wrap things up,

want to be clear to our audience and other cinephiles out there, we are not trying to downplay the importance or legitimacy of older films, their role in history, etc. They can all be appreciated. I guess what we're just trying to communicate is that we're in our 20s and just calm down

if we haven't seen any, uh, all the, all the movies back, uh, from 1900 to 1940 yet. Because I would like to get to them and I would like to experience them, but it's just, I mean, I'm also recording a feature album and I'm also watching like more films from, from every current year that exists than anybody else I know. Like, if you ask me about any movie that's, that's from like 2007, through 2016, I'll probably know

exactly what you're talking about and I've probably seen it or chosen not to because it looks stupid. Makes sense. There's a lot of fucking movies coming out every fucking year. It's really difficult to keep up.

How many cinefiles can say they've seen the man who killed Hitler and then the Bigfoot? Yeah, exactly. Not many. I've seen under the Silver Lake two times more than anybody else in the world. Actually, that doesn't make sense.

because two times zero is zero. Not times two, but plus two. Plus two. Yeah. Not anybody else in the world. I guess there were other people at those screenings. Anyway, very, very much deserved criticism at myself for making statements that were inaccurate. However, there is criticism that I've gotten on something completely different on a newer film that I don't understand at all.

For my Mission Impossible review. And I legit, this is like the, out of all of the videos I've ever made, this is the one where I understand the least about why people are upset with what I said. Yeah, I had that same reaction at him. What did you guys think of the new Mission Impossible fallout? Apparently Mission Impossible fans are like rabid fan boards. I don't get it. When did it turn into Marvel? I didn't know that.

Yeah, I didn't know that at all. It turned into Marvel at some point. I thought people just like these movies. Because I said it was like a good action movie. Yeah, it was a good action movie, but who cares about the, like, the plot and the characters? That was kind of dull and uninteresting. And then I got like tons of fucking, like, fuck you, Ralph. What do you know about the series?

You can't even pay attention. It's like, oh, my God. Like, it's just a fun action movie. I liked it. What do you want for me? What is so strange is that what you've said about the film is exactly what I'd imagine anybody who loves it would also say about it. Like, oh, yeah, it's, you know, it's dumb fun, but I love it for a,

its action scenes it was well directed overall the stunts were impressive etc like you know in my review I gave it so much fucking credit I mean I didn't say I liked it which that might be the biggest problem but I gave it a shit to the credit

and I could only imagine that what I said about it is even people who love it I would have to think agree for the most part about what I gave it credit for just that they liked it a lot more but I just don't understand where I've offended people here. Like, I totally understand

where you're coming from, because it's not a well-written or acted movie, like, even remotely. But, like, it's a fun action movie, and it's, the action's good, right? And that's what I'm there to see. So at the end of the day, it's a good movie. Yeah, I get where you're coming from, Adam. Yeah, you loved it. I didn't even say it was bad.

Yeah. Yeah. You said it was like average, Adam. Yeah, I mean, for you, that's exactly what you think it deserves. And I, like, I agree with that. I'm like one point away from you. average. Yeah, it's pretty average stuff, but you know. I enjoy half of the movie. Yeah, I think it's pretty average thing that I just, I don't understand like the effort they went to with, right, it's a goofy, schlocky Mission Impossible film, right? It knows exactly what it is and what it wants to achieve. It wants this like ridiculous nonstop action from beginning to end, right? And

that's what they clearly highlighted. I mean, yeah, but I don't think they did that. I think there's a lot stuff in this movie at least a third of it that's pretty bad dialogue i would say half characters and acting half i mean i'm gonna be a little more generous to say third because there is some like there are those two bait and switch moments in it that are pretty good and pretty well written when henry cavil is doing his plan under in the underground lair and alec baldwins like takes out his gun and starts pointing at tom cruise that was a pretty good scene yeah right like that's it i mean okay for for half of the for me, it was fairly exceptional.

I would say half of the movie. Very well directed action. Very impressive choreography. None of the effects felt like really fake and cheesy. They weren't like in front of a green screen the entire time sort of thing. It was very high energy, well-paced and that was half of the movie.

And if that half of the movie was the whole movie, I would give it like, I don't know, seven at least. Yeah, me too. I would give it like a five out of five. Yeah. If that half of the movie was the movie, then that would be great. But there's another half of the movie that's just boring nonsense, you know? Yeah.

There's another half of the movie that made me want to fall asleep more than anything else I've seen all year. Yeah. And the opening scene with... Oh, that was so funny. That was hilarious. Like, Tom Cruise has to save Ving Rames and then he turns around and the briefcase is gone. It's like, oh, my God, really? I understand you want to pay homage to, like, corny.

fucking well the mission of possible TV show that's a corny show right they're probably paying homage to that how much of it is homage and how much of it is just being what it's always been what I'm thinking because like the visual style of it I'd actually like but it looks like a boring movie and this the the actual tone of the movie is much more comedic the lens flare was gross the lens flare I was okay with they're shooting it on film they're taking advantage of the anamorphic lenses yeah whatever I'm okay with that J.J. Abrams I'm fucking used to it What did you think of the real opening scene where he was hallucinating?

And it was like the villain being like, oh my God. You're gonna get, you would like to get married, wouldn't you? Well, you're a bad person. That was really funny to me. That was really odd. It's so cheesy. I mean, I understand the point in it of it.

Like, they had to write that into show he was scared of the villain. You had to establish the villain as a threat. You had to establish the, what's her name, Michelle Morgigan? that she's like the love interest in it for people who haven't seen any of these movies or don't know what's going on. Like I get why they had to put it in there. It's just not very good

and it's really corny. Anyway, Alex, go back to what you liked about it because we're shitting all over the writing. Defend the writing. I don't see what's so bad about corny writing when it is like that's exactly what it's trying to be and what it's trying to do. Like to me like all the actors felt like

they were just fully embracing how stupid it is and like they know that it's, it's not like a high work of art and it's about just the it is about the action more than anything i mean with these like pretty relatable characters you know that they're pretty one note but they just work within the confines of the story and what the like the whole thing's just about momentum and tension and action and it reminds me of like you know classic 80s schlock like indiana jones you know yeah that's what it reminded me of too especially the way it was shot and i thought they captured that very well like when i think of indiana jones i think of indiana jones i

think about the, you know, all the set pieces. I don't really think about too much all the stuff that ties it together. Like, to me, it's about the journey more. But, like, because Indiana Jones is actually, those movies are pretty well written and funny. And the pacing is fantastic throughout. And I think this is, like,

it's very totally inconsistent. And it's, I think most of the comedy writing is pretty bad. Really? I like the comedy. Yeah. Because the action is pretty goofy. And then the comedy was like this, this like normie fucking jokes that I didn't like. I hate to use that term. It was like this like such, it was like inoffensive.

I don't even fucking remember it. But like they would hit a car or something and like they, Ving Rames would make a pun like, oh, better not do that again. And then drive away. It's like, give me a fucking break with this. I don't know how self-aware they were, honestly. Dude, that's how I feel about it.

I would love to agree with you, Alex. I would love to have experienced something. that you were describing. Yeah, me too. That's not what I got out of it. It was, I mean, if they were truly embracing the action over everything else, then that would be most of the movie and not half of the movie. I wouldn't have to suffer through boring nonsense for an hour and 15 minutes

in a two and a half hour long film, right? So other examples of films that I could say more accurately fit the description to me of what you're describing would be like the raid, you know? Like where, yeah, sure, there are some moments where it's like, okay, it takes itself a little seriously here to establish who these characters are. But then after that point, you don't really need anything. And then it's just like, okay, balls to the wall action for the rest of the movie. Whereas this film constantly stopping the momentum and going into these. To have these character moments.

Yeah, exactly, which are not pulled off very well. So, like, if you were to try and imagine this movie without the action scenes, you take that whole entire. half of the movie, what do you have? Something that's not really special at all. And I don't think that just because the action scenes exist as half of the movie that should bring up the parts that aren't those scenes

is what I'm saying. You know, like those scenes... That doesn't make it a bad action movie, but that does bring down the quality of the overall piece a lot. Like if you take out the action scenes from the raid, then what is left. Exactly, but that's a significantly smaller

portion of the movie is what I'm saying. I agree. with you completely if you take out the action scenes from the raid then you're left with something that's just like boring and like minorly intriguing I guess but that's about it like you're left with like a five out of ten but that's it is is the action scenes in the raid are like what 80% of the movie and the action scenes in Mission Impossible are 50% of the movie or maybe even less 50% it felt like it yeah it didn't feel like 50% to me but really didn't for me I thought they were very brisk and just moved along at a steady pace, like, without grinding it to a hole.

I really didn't feel that at all. I thought it was just fine, man. I thought it moved the foot along nicely. Like, I don't know what to say. Like, it sounds like you're talking about a different movie to me. Like, wow. It's just like, there's a lot of scenes in this. Like the whole, um, Michelle Mornigan being his wife and then they meet up at the end of the

movie at the, uh, that was, that was amazing. That was like a time. That was so bad. No, that was like a town. A total corny, like, 80s movie moment. It's so channeling, like, that 80s thing with the way the villain and the way he's like, you know, I can't go into spoilers, but. Oh, speaking of villains, I think Henry Cavill was awful in it. Do you agree with that, at least, Alex?

He's a charisma vacuum, that's for sure. Good. But I think he has more fun towards the end. I guess he already spoiled the thing. Oh, yeah. Dude, we know from the fucking trailer that he's not a good guy. They didn't really play it off as a twist either. They reveal it pretty early on, which I like.

Yeah, it's quite early on, but I think he's more enjoyable once he's a villain, I'm so sure. Yeah, they have the fucking scene with him, and he goes on some roof during Golden Hour with some other lady who's like the head of the CIA, right? Right. Some other thing. It's like this scene again when they fucking meet on the roof of some building in D.C. and they hand each other files. How many times have I seen this? How many times are they going to do the face machine

that makes new faces and makes the masks that Tom Cruise has to put on and sneak into the place? It's like, how many times are we going to do this? I guess it's all dependent on just what lens you're viewing those non-action scenes with? Because I legitimately would love to have experienced them in the way that you did, Alex. Like, I would love to see this as some sort of like

almost intentional comedy, I guess. Like, I don't know. Like, Black Dynamite is an example where it's like, okay, they're clearly playing on it. They're clearly self-aware. It's tongue-in-cheek. Whereas this, it just felt like it was in this. If it was doing it in a self-aware way, it was indistinguishable from something that wasn't. Yeah, it didn't really come across to me.

And the score might have helped with that too, because it doesn't have like a, it has a pretty standard action score. You think so? I saw it's way above average, yeah. Yeah. It's what brings everything together. I think they used temp music for one part. When Tom Cruise's, his squad was going like underground,

they were going to, like, hit the SWAT vehicle into the ocean. They were using, like, the opening music for Dark Night Rises. Are you sure it's not just because Lorne Balfe was, he was taught by Hans Zimmer, so they used a lot of similar techniques. And he did the music for, um, He helped on the music for Dunkirk as well. Oh, okay.

That's interesting, actually. I didn't know that. A lot of similar techniques in there. Yeah, I thought the score was really good, way above average for like an action movie like this. For me, it's what makes all the action scenes work so well combined with all the other bits. Like, I'm by no means, like a fan of the Mission Impossible series, particularly.

This is the only one I've liked to this degree and was completely surprised by how good I thought it was. Like, I even watch, rewatch the one for, from the Macquarie, the director, did before this one. And I was like, how this, that's the film that it sounds like you guys are describing, where it's like, it blows its load instantly. There's like corny dialogue, but without, you know, without it driving towards anything or there being any sense of momentum or proper pace.

Like it's fine, like mediocre. But I think this one is like just a total lightning in a bottle, like, brilliant action film compared to most of what like I was trying to compare it to other action films if you leave out the raid because they're exceptional like you just don't get this level of like realism

and grounded action in stupid Hollywood films like this that are really true to like the whole 80s spy it's more like 60s motif that the original TV show is like based around yeah it borrows a lot it borrows like the tone from the 60s and then the 70s style of shooting action where it's kind of, it reminded me a lot of French connection,

that car chase in it, where it's like all attached to the car. Well, because so much of the action is like practical too, right? Yeah, which is awesome too. The marketing campaign for every Mission Impossible movie at this point is like, hey, do you remember that Tom Cruise does his own stunts? Yeah, which is awesome. I mean, and it totally comes through in the movie, I mean.

That helicopter chase at the end is fucking. ridiculous yeah and I just wish like I wish I'd gotten that same sense of self-awareness that you did do I think it should have been I think it could have stood to be goofier maybe and maybe the acting be a bit more over the top for me to really get that I really like it when really goofy universes take themselves really seriously within like the universe but from our perspective it is completely ridiculous but for them it's really serious is world ending and it helps keeps the stakes kind of I don't know they just just felt like characters out of a movie for me.

What you're describing just feels indistinguishable from any bad movie. Yeah, that's how it felt for me. Like, if it's literally just the same as a movie that doesn't understand it's self-aware, that's how I feel about it. It's indistinguishable. And let's not say the whole movie, but the half of the movie that is those boring, spy dialogue, like, cheesy, recycled plot, rehashed villains, no character, cheesy death scene of just like the characters watching him as he

dies. Oh yeah, he has just enough breath left to be like, oh, remember me. Like, come on, you know, there's so much of it that's just like this is identical to something that is not something. Like you're describing why Alex loves it. Yeah, and that's so strange. Like when you watch it through a different lens of, I guess, intent, you know, it's. It's, it all comes down to, like, what you think their intentions were.

Yeah. I think they thought they could get by doing the bare minimum in terms of the writing because they know no one is there for that. And so they just wrote in a very standard spy story. And maybe there's, like, a veneer of fucking self-awareness. But at the end of the day, I mean, they could have done what Edgar Wright does and actually elevate the material. But they really didn't.

And that's why I think it's okay. I still like the movie. but I mean I'm not going to give it glowing review. If we're going to say that self-awareness is just limited to, oh, the movie knew what it wanted to be and did that but didn't give any hints but was still indistinguishable from Schlock, then you could make that same argument for like Sherlock Nomes then. It's like, oh, it just wants to be a dumb kid movie. It's not trying to be anything different.

No, like, what about the whole like running plot of the film that Ethan Hunt is basically Like a superhero and everyone's just like Man like it's so good you're around because we'd be fucked Yeah, but I'm used to that by now, right? It's not as entertaining anymore because we're at the sixth I've seen that done many times before in many different action movies where it's like and plus that's that's Tom Cruise now That's all he does how will you not die or like man? He got out of this one again We you know you have to be able if you're especially in a sixth film in a franchise

You need to be able to say something like, yes, we understand that he's basically invincible that this is the movie, right? Yeah. And it's like, it is self-aware to some extent, but it still doesn't present itself in any way that's indistinguishable from a movie that isn't, you know? I guess. We're just going around circles now. Don't feel bad about this, Alex, because even though it seems like we might be God-piling you, it's like a fork in the road as soon as we get to, once you remove the action scenes. from the rest of it. I think that's a silly complaint.

Like, oh, if they remove the action scenes. Like, obviously, it wouldn't be as good. That's the point of the movie. Like, but the action scenes are there. And it's super impressive. Half of the movie was great. Half of the movie was awesome. And I agree with what other people say about half of the movie.

But then there's another hour and 15 minutes that really drags it down for me, is what I'm saying. Yeah, I got that. Okay. But either way, I mean, it sounds like Alex is the minority on podcast but Ralph and I are the overwhelming minority in the real world. Yeah, exactly. So we get to bully one of you.

But like we still like it. We all liked the movie. We all thought it was okay, at least. None of us think it's bad. Yeah, it's all right. Good job Tom Cruise. Fucking movie star going out there getting himself killed. Part of the reason why I don't understand all the heat that I got from that review was like,

I recommended it to fans of the franchise. I was like, hey, I'm not a fan of the franchise. I don't enjoy it that much because it's just like other Mission Impossible movies or whatever. If you liked the other ones, you'll probably love this. I recommend it to people who do like the other films. And yet people were still, what seemed to be, I guess, personally offended, not by, I guess,

me saying anything incorrect about the film, but just me saying that I didn't enjoy it that much. overall and I'm just so confused. People on the internet are dicks. They're just dicks. I don't get it. It's like what? You want me to lie to you? You want me to fake my opinions for you? Oh my favorite criticism was like I called the movie predictable for the most part and there was like there was so many comments of people saying well yeah but your reviews are predictable so you can't call a movie out for being predictable because I knew you were going to find it

average and I knew you were going to give it a five out of ten. I was like okay well what is consistency, you know? My reviews are to provide recommendations for people that have similar tastes to me and be honest about my experience. What? You want me to lie in my reviews and pretend like I enjoyed something I didn't or pretend to dislike something that I do enjoy just to change it up, give you a little twist, pull an M-night Shyamalan on my reviews to make them more entertaining?

I don't think that's what reviews are for. Yeah. Good job, Tom. You did it. You got them. Keeping it up. Keeping the dream alive. Hidden Scientology.

Did you see any Scientology like product placement or hidden messages in the movie? No, but I saw his Illuminati snake eyes change. No. I didn't see that. No. Awesome. Okay. Ralph.

Do fantastic on it. Well, no, we'll get to that really soon. Uh-huh. Okay. There's, um, everybody's been bugging me about something and they want me to ask you a question. I don't know. Oh. Oh, you already know what it is.

they've been bugging you too. I might, I might. How tall are you? Oh, I don't know. I've never checked. Okay. Lies. Good answer?

I find it so funny how much the meme has grown, and I'm just going to leave it and see how much more it can grow. Because I've intentionally ignored it. Do any of you know what I'm talking about? Alex, you know what I'm talking about? No. There's this picture of me and Adam And like what are we We're like photoshopped onto Smurfs or something

I don't even know if I've seen that You haven't? You on Smurfs Oh my God, I gotta fucking find this hold on What is that on the Reddit or something? No, it's on my Twitter They keep asking me how tall I am In my Twitter

And they put like this really funny picture It's photoshopped like my face And Adam's face On oh yeah Mini-Me and then Doctor Evil from from fucking Austin Powers. It's great But yeah, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna answer the question. Okay, you're gonna have to keep asking me. Well, no matter how tall you are, that might be accurate because I'm a very tall boy Yeah, you're very tall and I'm I'm not short, but I'm pretty short compared to Sure average maybe slightly below average. All right, yeah

So that's probably a realistic measurement Uh, five foot seven but you don't have to say anything oh yeah I don't have to say anything that's right I won't that's my guess we're taking we're taking guesses here

we're doing a oh yeah Alex what's your guess uh 5 foot 2 whoa 5 foot 2 what am I fucking midget I'm not 5 foot 2 I think 5 foot 7 is probably a good guess

okay guys 5 foot 7's pretty good yeah 5 foot 7's pretty close All right, so you basically revealed it. All right. I guess. You can cut that out. Oh, I can. I didn't say exactly what it was.

I could cut that out, couldn't I? Now I'm going to get messages like 5'8, 5 foot 7, are you 5 foot 6? They're going to be like around that area. How tall in centimeters? No one will figure that out, except Alex. Yeah, I will. Yeah, your fucking measurement system. All right. So we have a movie that we would like to discuss that was recommended in the previous episode of this podcast. It is a recommendation that I gave to Ralph and Alex and all of you. And if you would like to not be spoiled for this film, I encourage you to watch this film before you listen to this part of the podcast. It's called Fantastic Planet or La Planet Sauvage.

and I guess the more accurate English translation would be the wild planet because that's what they keep saying in the movie but anyway it's directed by Renee Lalu and it's from 1973 I think and basically I guess just to give a plot synopsis the film takes place on in kind of a dystopian alternate reality perhaps future reality of a planet where human beings are not the dominant species

and they are essentially treated as pets by a much larger, much more powerful and much more technologically advanced species. The drugs. Yeah, the drags. And human beings are referred to as omns, which, uh, In the subtitles are spelled O-M-S, but the actual French word for man is H-O-M-M-E, which is also pronounced um.

So that's kind of how that works, I guess. What did you guys think of this film? Oh, boy. Oh, boy! Oh, my! No, Ralph, you loved it. Yeah, absolutely loved it. I've seen it four times since...

Really? That's crazy. Since I first watched it. You've broken the record. I fucking loved it. Wow. Yeah, I got it on Blu-ray. I watched.

The Blu-ray also came with all the shorts. Yeah. It came with the short, too, the snails one, as long as, as well as one other one, which I also watched. Yeah. And yeah, the short is great with the snails. This movie is fucking amazing in every way. It's one of my favorite movies now.

Awesome. And I could say that, because I've seen it four times. And I plan on seeing it a fifth at some point. Well, I'm glad I've introduced it to you. What did you think, Alex? Um, I liked it. I don't know how I'm supposed to follow up after that. Um, not nearly as much as Ralph.

I had a few issues with it, but overall, I did very much appreciate, um, what it was. Why do you hate it? Oh, go on. Here we go. A complete 180. Um, here's the thing, right? It's one of those things where I appreciate it more than I actually like it. I think for what it was going for.

It was kind of bang on. But there's only so much I can kind of attach myself to these, um, what's the best way describe them. It's almost like an Aesop's fable kind of thing where it's like a very it's kind of a detached look at this fantastical story that it is very core.

It's not so subtle core has this kind of allegorical message about any number of things be it slavery, animal abuse, you know, racism all that kind of stuff but for me my biggest problem is

without the allegory there isn't that much else for me to sort of delve into and get attached to. Like it's not, very purposefully, the film is not about characters at all. It even sets up major characters and just abandons them within minutes. And I guess it's just a matter of, does this ASOP's fable speak to you or not? I mean, the art direction is pretty fantastic in the style of animation being that kind of stop motion, as opposed to hand-drawn frame animation is certainly unique.

That was amazing. It's like Terry Gilliam. Yeah. They did the animation like they had cutouts, right? And they just did stop motion with the cutouts. Yeah, like South Park. Okay. Like originally did.

Probably the best example I've seen of that kind of animation though. Oh yeah, absolutely. It looks fucking fantastic. I didn't even know like the first time watching it, how it was animated. I was like just, it was gorgeous. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so much style of the wind.

And everything actually felt alien. Everything felt so leagues and bounds beyond what you could find on Earth. It was so interesting. Even like the plants would do like these little fucking things open and close and make these weird noises. And you're like, what the hell? Shake them up and throw them on the ground and laugh. Yeah. That was one of my favorite elements of it is that this world that you're in is just so odd.

Yeah. And nothing. You can get the gist. of what they're doing, but you'll never fully understand it. Their whole meditation technique was really fucking cool to see. Yeah. It's kind of in the same vein as under the skin in a sense, where in order to present human beings as this lesser species,

it makes sense to present concepts that the viewer could never truly understand. Because if you're trying to look at life through the perspective of a pet in our world or like a gerbil or some shit. Like they don't know, they don't know how we turn the lights on. They don't know what cars are. They don't know how that shit works. They don't, you know,

there's so many things that we could just like do in front of them that they could never possibly understand technologically. And I like that that kind of brings that perspective into our own minds where we can look at something and be like, what the fuck? Like you can kind of get the gist of what's happening, but you really don't understand how things work. You really don't understand what exactly is happening

because it's just so far beyond our comprehension. And I really like that being in play. Yeah, you get that they're eating in one scene, but it's like this fucking cloud that they stand in front of and like little clouds come out of it and go into their mouth. You're like, huh. But yeah, they take humanity totally out of its element and puts it on this foreign planet, which was so interesting.

And the stakes were so high, too. Mm-hmm. Which is, well, also what made the story so interesting. You said, Alex, like, there aren't a lot of characters to attach to. No, there are lots of characters. They just don't really have character. Yeah, I guess. Because it's such a grand story they're telling.

It's just, like, this character only serves this purpose in the story, and then that's about it. Yeah. Like, the little girl, the, what's her name? The alien girl. I forget her name. That adopts our main character. Zubaloo. Zubuifu.

Is it like Tiva? Yeah. Yeah. That's close to it. Tva, maybe. It's TWA, is it? Tia or Tiva, somewhere along those lines. I can look it up.

Yeah. Doesn't matter. Yeah, whatever. I forgot the point I was making anyway. I'm going to look up her name. What are you talk? She is one of the more main characters in the film. But I'm saying, oh, that's right.

So she was serving her purpose and that was it. And then once our main character moves on from there, like we don't really need to see her anymore. And the movie's so short. It wasn't like it relied on characters for me to stay invested because everything went by so briskly. Yeah. Like I wasn't really like, oh, I need to see what this character's up to

because that's not the meat of the story for me and what made it so interesting. I almost feel as if animation weren't so expensive, perhaps we would have seen certain things more fleshed out because this is a short movie. It is, which I love about it. Animation is super fucking expensive. So I don't know if the runtime was reflective

of its limitations, it probably was. I found a quote like in direct response to what you just said there. I think it's actually like a cultural thing. Someone here, one of the animators, a check guy, said that in, like check animation is that they treat characters as symbols rather than well-rounded characters. So the films, it's like purposefully somewhat simplistic and like characters aren't developed

on purpose, which is like interesting and not very common. It is a very different way of telling a story, but that's also what helps it become more unique overall. Yeah. I do think that this is like, title suggests it's about the world not necessarily about an individual within the world it's about it's about the concepts that it makes you think about how the environment and how these species relate to each other how they treat each other and i guess what it means to be the dominant species

what it means to be a human what it means to be a drag you know and and having their beliefs as entire species being changed throughout the film, not necessarily focusing on an individual. Yeah. I love that about it. But there is some, it's not like a totally disconnected view with no heart at all. Because we do follow what's the kid's name, TUR, right? Like as he grows up, basically from when he's a baby to when he's fully grown and we see humanity evolve with him.

So there was that giving the story some like structure. and through line and some heart too. And there's also like the fact that Tewa actually loved her was sweet. That was like a nice chapter of the movie. She did genuinely treat him like a pet. Like she thought she was treating him well. Exactly. Which is, it's just as fucked up.

And it's an interesting statement on like, well, slavery in America, we would just treat people like property. Yeah. I guess that's what's commenting on. Well, I think it's the way that she treated her is very similarly to how children, human beings, treat their pets. You know, like, you see a kid with a gerbil. You know that gerbil's basically being abused. If there's like a 10-year-old girl with a gerbil, you know, she's probably not taking care of it very well and doesn't know it.

You know? But we don't really give a shit because it's like, oh, whatever, they're just gerbils. Yeah, they're dumb. And they have no self-awareness. Exactly. And so to these larger beings, human beings are dumb. It's like, oh, what? They can't blah, blah, blah, blah.

Like, they don't even understand shit, right? And I guess just in this story, it's like, oh, human beings are perfectly capable of some sort of higher understanding with the help of their brain learning technology that implements history directly into your brain. and who knows if even other species on that planet would have the same experience. But I think that it is a very unique and important perspective to place people into, to try and, I guess, give people a sense of empathy that they might not have, or at least try to make them think about our relationship with lesser species

or what we consider to be lesser species and how we treat them. Or just how we've treated people throughout history. We have fucking treated people like this. Yeah. You know, again, going back to American slavery. Like, the adults in this movie treat the ums very differently than the kids do. They treat them like they treated slaves. Their property.

They're just fucking toys, right? And as long as they're not serving their purpose, you could just fucking get rid of them. Yeah, it's a very colorful, very creative. Yeah. Very creative. Yeah, incredibly creative. Trippy. I love the 70s soundtrack.

You know, I think it fits so perfectly. That exists on vinyl, by the way. I might pick it up. I'm totally getting that. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen it at a couple of records stores.

The meditation scene was awesome. Yeah. I love the design of the aliens. It was just so odd. The eyes. The eyes were awesome. I don't know what the hell that was. Was that like they had some, like, object in real life?

like a three-dimensional object and they put it on top of like whatever they were scanning the paper because it looked like it looked like it had some dimension to it i'm not sure like that cross-stitching to create a lot of depth in terms of like the um i don't know if they did for the eyes i'd have to look at it again right now but i wouldn't be surprised if they did do something like that yeah that's super interesting yeah it was just so good yeah i feel like i feel like every element of this film what it is and it's something that like again like many films that I love all of my favorite films pretty much it's an experience that you can't substitute with another movie you can't possibly yeah say oh yeah this is just like blank maybe maybe

specific elements you know I compared it to under the skin in a very specific way but the overall experience of this movie tone wise and presentation everything about it is just this movie alone and there hasn't been anything like it since and it's been yeah 40 50 years almost no do you know what makes me think of what what i can imagine like in some alternate universe that this is like the basis of someone's religion or beliefs or something you know i mean it's like one of those yeah it's like one of those yeah there's classic kind of stories that people, I don't know, dig up from the past or study, that kind of thing. Yeah.

Even when they were getting the lessons and printed in their brain, they would read off these facts that just made the world they were in feel so much more alive. Like there was actually this whole society going on outside of this story that's being told. I feel like part of the reason why they were able to have so much about the world itself condensed into this super short film is, because they didn't spend so long developing individual characters. It's kind of a trade-off in a sense. I find for animation for me, I don't get involved in the characters as much as I do, the setting and the animation and the creative concepts it's exploring.

Because an animated character for me, I'm not really going to feel that much for it because it's a drawing, right? Yeah, that's just how I feel. I think it's, well, again, just for me it's more of a vehicle for exploring concepts but if you give them really big eyes then you can feel sad for them yeah if you give them really big eyes disney eyes i mean even even the drogs have some design elements that make you they clearly are supposed to sympathize with them somewhat they have human features right yeah they're supposed to relate to me yeah they're not like

totally they're the human inserts aren't they so of course they are and you're you're supposed to think oh they're it's fucked up what they're doing but at the same time we do the same shit. Yeah. So how fucked up can it be? Exactly. Yeah. What was your favorite aspect to the film, Alex?

Probably the art direction and the like world building. Just weird little details. Like it's that really weird scene where that guy is just smacking on a like a box, some crazy technology and then he's just sucked into the box. Yeah. Okay, I guess that happened. That's something that they can do in this world. Yeah.

You know, like those drones that they've been. fly around that were like casting these beams of light or what you thought were like beans of light but then they'd leave the That shit was scary. Yeah. The fucking, the scene when they unleash those like smoke pellets in the in the

cave. Yeah, yeah. That was a scary Yeah, they're de-a-ming. That was a scary ass scene. A lots of like oppressive imagery. Like totalitarian controlling imagery. It reminds me of the wall movie a bit of

well have a bunch of similarities. I haven't seen it yet. I would really like to. I haven't you. It's got like really impressive animation and there's a bunch of like similar themes about that movie. I would recommend that one too if you like this kind of thing. I love how very unapologetically brutal it is and it's not particularly gory in any sense.

A lot of the violence and a lot of the death that you see is still very detached in a sense where you see dozens of silhouette figures basically just running away and then being like trampled by this gigantic ball that's collecting them up you know or as they're being killed by those beams of light or any anything that's that's mass killing all of the people in this film it's shown in a in such a strangely detached way and yet it's still so effective and it's still so like horrific in a sense and terrifying well it makes them look like ants, isn't it? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. It's just very cruel. And even just the idea of the kid having to grow up and he's basically just a toy for the first 15 years of his life and he has

no parents or no life or anything. He's just this fucking aliens toy. That's really disturbing and cruel as well. There's a lot of stuff going on in this movie like that. Would you recommend this movie for children? I mean, I'm not saying it's a little children's movie. Not at all. I'm just curious, because we talk about. talked about this with Isle of Dogs. This would have appeared on my childhood trauma list if I had seen it as a child. Oh, yeah? Probably.

I have read some reviews about kids who saw this when they were young and they liked it. Well, yeah, because it's like animated and, you know, their parents would rent it for them at a fucking movie store, you know, movie rental place. They don't understand the implications. Yeah. I really hope we get past that point of the implication that animated films are just for kids. Oh. I hope that there's stupid isn't it?

more adults oriented animated films that get released in the future and I hope it becomes more commonplace because there's so much you can do with animation yeah such a waste to just make kids movies with it that's a limitation that you place upon it but animation is is a medium where you can literally do whatever you want like there's no limitations to what you can show there's limitations in the budget for sure in runtime like any movie but there's no limitations to what you can show creatively. You don't even have to think about the practicality of showing something visually

until you get down to the actual storyboarding and how you're going to present it like cinematography, shot composition-wise. Yeah. That's the way the animators designed the animation in this movie, too, because they said they wanted to contrast the smooth style of, like, Disney or Miyazaki movies. And they just wanted to make a very formal

and kind of stiff, rigid-looking animation. Not that that's an insult. I mean, the movie looks great. It's clearly not as free-flowing as, like, Aladdin or something like that, like a Disney movie. It's not as, like, calm and pretty-looking. I mean, it's pretty in its own way. It is, in a different way.

Yeah. In a more adult, restrained way. The style of animation alone, even just in comedic elements from, you know, Terry Gilliam animations in Monty Python when I was younger that shit scared the hell out of me just the style of the animation alone even though it wasn't even trying to be scary

so I feel I feel like the presentation in that sense does bring an element of just kind of like a disturbing way of showing it just through the stop motion cut out style alone yeah I agree with you yeah if like a Disney movie was propaganda. This would be the documentary footage

of what's actually going on. That's the kind of contrast as with how violent it is. Even that scene where they have the combat animals and fighting with these weird animals and it just bites onto him and kill someone with it.

Just tied to their chests. Yeah. That's how they did it. I love that too. The humans also had their whole structure of society as well underground. It felt so well thought out, everything.

What are your biggest criticisms with the movie? None. Well, for me, as I said, like, I'm quite traditional in terms of the things I get attached to. Like, I can appreciate it as a work of art on its own. But when I don't have that emotional connection, I just don't have that same enthusiasm, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. It's hardly even, it's not even really a criticism. If I really wanted to say criticism, I guess, I guess there's some repetitive animation here and there that I noticed where they were reusing stuff. It could just be budgetary, though. A couple of the backgrounds were a bit empty for me. Might be the point of the scenes if I rewatched it again. But that's just about it. I mean, what it's going for, it does totally nail.

It's just a matter of if that really resonates with you or not. And I think it is an important message for people. There are certainly people who do need to, like, see something like this to wrap their heads around what this film is trying to teach. But aside from that, I mean, there isn't much to really dislike about it, you know? Do you guys have anything? It's amazing how much it manages to say in, like, an hour and 11 minutes. Is that how long it is?

Just about. 74 minutes, I think. Yeah, 74 minutes? Like, the stuff it's tackling is pretty dense, pretty dense topics and it manages to actually have a point and say something. It is a clever way to do it. Without the schmaltz, it could be very cheesy and kind of heavy-handed with that message, but it's so clear and frank about it from the beginning of what it's trying to do.

And that does help. Yeah, that opening scene is just disturbing. It is. This is a lot of really disturbing stuff. Like the mother away with your finger. That's all you see of the drags at first is literally just this godhand coming down from the sky being like, nope, sorry, flick. Like you're insignificant. Like they're not even being attacked by anything that threatening.

They're being attacked by children just fucking around in the dirt. Like just that sets the stage so well for the horrors that await you in this movie. When one of them dies and they're like, she's not moving. Now we can't play with her anymore. It's just there's so much of indifference, you know, like there's no empathy there from these things that don't even really fully understand that they're abusing this other species. Which I just, I find fascinating because that's literally just what human beings do. You know? Uh-huh.

There's a psychological detachment. Yeah. They turned our own mindset back on to us and like, yep, that's how you're like. You cruel fuck. And you won't change. And that's the point of the movie. It's one of the points of the movie. Is there anything you aren't fond of Adam?

I have this issue in a few different movies. The little boy raised from the aliens, but then he meets somebody in the woods and they both speak the same language. They speak fluently to each other. I'm like, eh, you know, that's a little weird. Because, like, it wasn't, I don't know. Like, they were supposedly not educated and separated from each other, so I just find it weird that they were able to communicate so fluently with each other right off the bat. They might have had other info.

Like, they probably at least had the language down. Sure. conclusive ending as I would have liked I would have preferred I guess maybe just like a couple more minutes just to kind of like ease us into the fact that the movie is over but it to me it felt like it was just kind of like oh it's over now yeah it kind of wrapped up too quick yeah very close there's no like buildup really to the climax it's just kind of like they get to the planet and they shoot

some shit and then we cut to years later and they explained what happened we did it it was like wrapped up in two minutes yeah And it was cool. It was still really good. I still loved it. But yeah, they could have made that a few minutes longer. And it probably would have been better. Yeah.

Otherwise, I think the movie's great. I love it. Can't get that experience anywhere else. Very unique, very smart, creative, impactful. Love it. Fantastic. What would you guys give it? I know Ralph gave it.

Like a five out of ten. Okay. Alex. Okay, I think I'd give it an eight or a nine. Oh, good. Oh, wow. Ralph, yeah, Ralph gave it a five out of five in case anybody took that seriously. For sure, you gave it a five out of five.

There's no debate there. It's okay. It's an okay movie. Give it a five foot seven out of five foot seven. I give it an eight out of ten. Really loved it. Dope film. Why isn't it a ten?

I don't know. everything's got to be sumy that's why all right thank you for showing me at adam no problem it was fucking fantastic I'm glad you enjoyed it

oh shit you know what I was supposed to be doing this whole time the fans of sarnonikast introduced us to this thing or someone made this it's a sardonic has bingo oh yeah yeah

well I wasn't the odd man at this time so sorry yeah I just want to see how much we've done so far Adam rips off an intro that's one of them Okay. Ralph says YouTube.com slash Roth the Movie Maker. Okay. Alex gets annoyed by the bingo game. If you laugh at the guest face art, that doesn't apply.

Alex makes a good point every so often. Didn't happen. Ralph makes a bunch of points of varying quality. All right. This is so subjective. This is up to like the viewer's interpretation. I'll just read some of them often. Adam rebuttals most of the points Ralph makes

That's a good one Adam and Ralph disagree and Ralph is Or Alex is somewhere in the middle Ralph loves Elon Musk Suissez squad is mentioned Alex and Ralph give something a five out of five Adam gives something a seven Yeah we subverted your expectations

Sorry That's right we did some of these Did we want to have a quick little talk about the short film Les Escargo Le Escargo Snail Boy Sure

There's nothing really To talk about I know I mean it's pretty good It's a The animation's great That's mainly I guess why it exists

Great animation Very disturbing In my opinion Yeah It does feel A weird concept I mean it is a short Yeah

When I first watched it I feel like I had a bit more It made a bit more of an impression on me And through my memory I was like oh yeah I want to watch that again So

After watching it a second time I'm like eh I didn't really need to recommend it but whatever I guess you know it wasn't that big of a commitment it was still pretty good there was only like 13 minutes yeah I love the soundtrack he's an interesting stepping stone I still got the score in my head da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da

yeah very very like playful soundtrack and I love that shot of his eyes as he's crying with a smile on his face yeah oh yeah that was fucking creepy too he was like dancing around the the farm with tears just pouring out of his eyes, smiling. To smack himself in the head and kick him.

Oh, yeah. He was holding onions to his face. It was pretty funny. I love the juxtaposing playful but disturbing and kind of sad tone and imagery in this short film. I love it when something doesn't just stick with one tone and it's kind of like a mesh of tones that aren't necessarily contradictory but complement each other. in a way. Yeah. Yeah.

And yeah, those snails were pretty scary. I don't know. That's another thing where it's like, if I watched that as a kid, that would be on my childhood trauma list. Oh, snails freak you out?

No, just the way that they... It's just the animation. How they presented it. Yeah. And I guess the fact that they're huge, but... Yeah. That would freak me out too, I bet.

Stompation does have a rep for being creepy, so... Uh-huh. I loved that King Kong reference. The snail. Oh, yeah. That was cool. ...grafts the girl out of the building.

Yeah. Yeah. Very strange and interesting. Good job. Renee. That's his name, right? The guy who made it. René Laloo.

René Laloo. That's French name ever. Babadabu. Ababri-boo. Bada-boom. Questions? Bada-bing. Let's do some questions.

Is that your French accent? What was that? What was that? Yeah. Ralph's being racist again. Yeah, to French people. Ah, fuck French people. You saved your asses in World War II.

I don't want to hear it. Anyway. We saved your baguettes. We saved your baguettes. From what I've heard, French people don't like Americans. From I have had relatives and friends. French people don't like anyone. French is a very like my country-only kind of country.

like they're not really interested in other cultures that much from my impression. Well, thank you for watching us French fans, I'm sure you're cool. We don't have any because they don't give a shit about American YouTube channels. Oh no, we have a few. I already know we do. We have a couple. Whenever I look at my metrics,

it's like every other European country is just like oh yeah, they watch my videos and in France it's like two people. And I recommend a lot of French films. I love French movies. There's a lot of talent in French cinema, that's for sure. Indeed.

there is. Do you have any questions, Alex? Yeah, I got a bunch. Oh yeah? Okay, cool. You can start off if you want. Ask questions on the SardanaCast Reddit, everybody. So our first question of the episode comes in from Sammy In, who says, what was the worst horror movie that managed to genuinely scare you? There must be something that has scared you guys, even though it sucks, unless you're like hard to scare. I've got one, if you want to have a minute to think. It's a terrible, terrible film that is really bad,

but as I've mentioned before, I'm pretty easy to scare. And that god-awful Blair Witch remake freak me out of it. Oh, really? Yeah. It's just, it's something about that setting. Like, I live in an area where there are loads of woods and forests like that. And just something about being alone at night with, like, things walking around and I don't know, that just creeps me out.

And then as soon as they show what the creature is, it's like, oh, it's not scary anymore, but it's that mystery that really gets to me. Shit, film, though. All right. I don't even have an answer for this one. Nothing scares you. I'm hard to scare.

Pretty hard to scare. I'm easy to scare, so it's an easy question for me. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, that's a good answer. I just wish I had one. I don't know. I guess, uh, as above so below was a movie that was kind of bad,

but I still kind of appreciated it in some ways. And I don't know if I was necessarily really scared by it, but I guess conceptually, like, the idea of, I really like these, like, kind of, sort of supernatural horror-esque kind of films where, you know, the characters basically go down into this, like, underground cave or whatever, and then it's not like, oh yeah, they just get lost under normal circumstances.

It's like there's satanic elements at play where it's like, okay, now you're trapped here forever. And like you, you know, that's not the entrance anymore. And like this is not the same sort of thing. I guess the concept more than anything is something that is scary to me. Yeah. I think overall it could have been done a lot better. It was, you know, a lot of it was was pretty bad. but there were some scary elements also.

I think my best answer for this question would probably be the grudge because when I was younger, I watched that film and it scared me and even some of the scenes where that fucking demon girl or whatever ghost girl is like in her face right up against her and she can't go anywhere

and it's just making that noise, like, uh, or whatever. And that's still scary. The whole movie is pretty bad. But there's scary elements to it for sure, I think. I can remember nightmares I had about that grudge thing. Yeah. Picture perfect from like years ago. When did you watch it?

When did you go to me too? It must have been like, when did it come out? Early 2000s? It would have been around the time it came out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it would have been around about then. And I remember being in, like, secondary school. Yeah, I think I was 14 or something.

Yeah, yeah, I would have been like 12, 13. That freaked me out. You know what's the movie that scared me as a kid? What? Barney's Great Adventure. Perfect. Gotcha. Got them.

Got you guys. So Ralph is too cool to be scared by things. That's all we've learned. Yeah, I guess so. Get good. Anyway Next question Alright here's one

Green Hood 300 asks Who is your favorite character of all time I guess just like Character from a series of games or movies or books Or just one film Although that's probably not going to be your answer That's a difficult one Favorite character

Favorite character It is one of your favorites at least I don't know James Bond would probably be mine I mean, I could look through my list of favorite movies and try to find other characters that I, like Daniel Plainview, I think is a great fucking character. Or Alex from Clockwork Orange. Oh, yeah, Daniel Plainview is a great character. There's so many great characters out there.

You know, like, I'm a huge fan of character studies. One of my favorite characters that I really love to, like, try and dissect is the main character, Isabel Hubert's character in the piano, teacher, I think is like an excellent character study. I'm assuming you guys haven't seen it, right? No, I have not. Okay, don't worry about that. I'll probably recommend it someday. That's an amazing character.

There's a lot of cheese in the Memento film. I've watched it again recently, but I really love Leonard Shelby's character. I love the concept of a... I think that's one of the best characters? Well, yeah, not necessarily like, oh yeah, because he can't remember things. But I guess spoiler warning, like we find out that he's willfully ignorant to reality so he can feel more comfortable with himself. He's presented an opportunity where he knows he can deceive himself and he decides to.

And I think that that's a really interesting character attribute. And it's a very interesting commentary on human beings in general. Yeah, that is actually very interesting. All right. I'll take that answer. I also have Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver, Gunnery Sergeant Hartman from Full Model Jacket. That's the Drill Sergeant.

And Jules from Pulp Fiction. And I'd say that's about it for me. There's a lot of interesting characters in Pulp Fiction. That's a load. You could have an entire list of interesting characters from that movie alone. They're all so well-written. Jules.

Yeah, Jules has got to be it for me, though. Joker in the Dark Night is a good one. Although that's based on comics. yeah well whatever Alex you got one I'll say the dude from the Big LeBelsky ah the dude that's a good

he's so a yeah yeah that's a good character to be that's a character like everyone aspires to be someone you're not wrong you're just an asshole at least in college yeah yeah awesome

all right Alex you got another one I certainly do about this one from Reaper 457 8 who asks how do you guys feel about movie pirating slash torrenting? I was asking you guys the other day where what was that?

What's that Ethan Hunt movie? First Reform? Yeah. Where I was like, I can't see this film anywhere. Where I live, like there's no local cinema that's showing it.

So what options do I really have when it comes to that point? I'd happily pay money. Like if they put it on iTunes or whatever, I'd happily pay for it. but when I want to see it, like, when people can't see films, why would they not pirate or torrent?

Yeah, that's the issue. I don't think any of us want to pirate things, but sometimes it's so fucking difficult to get your hands on these movies that you're just like, all right, it's actually easier for me to just torrent it illegally than to actually pay them to fucking get it. Yeah, of course there are people out there

that will not pay for a movie that would be paying otherwise because they're just cheap skates and they just feel like they they don't care about whether or not the artists are making money. They don't care about supporting people's works. However, that doesn't reflect all of society. And us all being people who, you know, our podcast is funded by people who are donating to us because they want to hear more of our content. You know, Ralph and I have our own individual patrons. Like, we're proof that the model can exist with people want to.

to support art that they love. There's several artists, musical artists, that have released CDs on a pay-what-you-want, but otherwise it's free basis. And in a lot of those cases, they've actually made more money than they projected they would have

if they hadn't done that. And I think Gabe Newell put it best when he said that piracy is not necessarily an issue with people stealing, but it's more of a, service issue. So when he created Steam, initially it wasn't in every region. And when he was thinking to expand to Russia, everybody was telling him like, no, don't do that. These guys are pirates. They'll pirate everything. They don't want to pay for your product. Don't even release

steam in Russia. Now Russia is like its biggest market. Like that's all of people playing Dota also. Because what he created is easy. Yeah, it's easy and convenient. And you just go right on. People will take that any day. If you put yourself into the perspective of someone who's like, okay, I want this product. Right now, the only way for me to legally purchase it is if I buy this physical copy that has a shit ton of DRM on it, if I have the wrong program installed on my computer, it won't even let me play it. If it's not from the right region, this movie or whatever, it won't let me play it. I have to buy like a region free Blu-ray player. I have to buy something from another country and then even past that point it's like oh HDCP

all these fucking hurdles and issues where you're seriously inconveniencing legitimate consumers with these anti-piracy measures all of these DRM measures they don't actually do anything to pirates because the pirates are going to find their way around it no matter what and then when somebody downloads a torrent they don't get all of the bullshit that comes with it

they don't have the like oh you can't skip past these anti-piracy things at the beginning how ironic is that where you're at four forcing someone to watch all this bullshit before the movie being like piracy is a crime But it's like okay, well can if somebody pirates the movie and that first chapter of the Blu-ray isn't on their file Can they just use that as a defense then like oh I didn't know I couldn't pirate it because it didn't tell me at the beginning Either way the issue is that pirates are creating a better product than the actual Distributors than the actual publishers and so when people are faced with a decision of like okay do I want to buy this bullshit that is over

priced, I can't use on every device that I own, I have all of these limitations and they're making it as difficult as fucking possible for me to actually watch what I want to, or I can just click a button and I get it. It's not about whether or not it's free to most people. Most people want to actually support things. And that's why you've seen piracy. The numbers have dropped significantly since Netflix, since iTunes. Turns out if you just make things convenient for people and you allow them to purchase your product, then people aren't stealing it because they don't have to. Yeah, that's exactly it. They need to understand most people watch things on VOD now and stream it online, and that if I want to watch a movie, I fucking Google it, and right on the right should be like the link to watch it on Amazon, Hulu, whatever. Yeah. And it should be right there, easy.

And if it's not there, then people are going to fucking pirate it because it's so much easier to do that. The Pirate Bay is actually a very good search engine. You can find anything you want pretty fucking quick. And that's something these big companies haven't nailed down yet. It's kind of important also for film preservation. Like we've talked about some kind of obscure films on this show. Yeah.

And like we get loads of people saying like how do I get this film? I can't find it anywhere. Happiness being an example. I went into a bunch of different shops on various high streets like HMV or whatever asking if you got this a copy of this. No, no one has it. No one even fucking heard of it. Like you're not given many options and like if these big

companies that are producing these movies are not going to be hosting them on iTunes or putting them somewhere to preserve them. I mean, what better place than to chuck it on a torrent site where the people are control of it. People on the internet do it better than they do. Yeah, exactly. That's it. Especially when you're looking at films that are owned by Disney, which they constantly George Lucas their films every time they make a release.

Yeah. So, like, even the 10th anniversary edition of The Lion King, there are changes that were. made. You know, you can't, you literally at this moment cannot buy the original version of the Lion King outside of probably torrenting it. Like I have the VHS, but that's that's about it. And, you know, like I obviously all three of us, we understand and we value supporting artists and supporting the media that we consume. And we want to give as much money as is reasonable or as possible so that they can continue making these products. You know, you can see the gigantic Blu-ray shelf in the background of any video that I have my webcam on. However, it doesn't make

sense to treat people as criminals when they just want to experience an art form and they may not have any other way of actually doing it, you know? Where it's like, there's been so many instances where I'm just, I'm just thinking like, I'm begging you, let me buy your product. Why did you release it this way? I watched a movie recently called After Lucia, which is from a very underrated director, Michel Michael Franco or whatever, Mexican director. And the Blu-ray that exists only have non-English subtitles. So I think they have Spanish subtitles. One of them might have French subtitles. And because they just decided not to put English subtitles on, which makes no sense because the DVD.

has English subtitles. There's so many movies like that where it's like the subtitles exist. You clearly own the rights to these subtitles. Do you not? Why not just port them over to the Blu-ray? And so what I wound up doing is I bought the Blu-ray with no subtitles on it, ripped it to my hard drive, ripped the subtitle file from the DVD, and then merged them together in a single folder and then used my Android TV box to read the hard drive and then play the movie. And it's like, I do this for a living so I can afford to. And it makes sense. sense to go through this gigantic effort in terms of just being able to watch the film and the way that you already should be letting me do it.

By the way, it's not even on fucking iTunes. But the average consumer is not going to jump through all these hurdles to do that. So it's stupid to say that like, oh yeah, they're just freeloaders. It's like, well, you're not even selling me the product I want. Yeah, how are we supposed to write if it doesn't exist? Yeah. So how can you even claim the loss of a sale when you're unwilling to, to sell it to certain regions or certain consumers under certain, you know, circumstances.

It's like, I want an HD copy of this with English subtitles. You can easily give it to me at any point, but you choose not to. How am I criminal for downloading something where they're offering me a product that you're not? It's just stupid. Yeah. I always whinge about it as well. We're not making the money we should be. We're not monetizing it.

Fucking Nicholas Chartier, piece of shit. He's genuinely a piece of shit. Why is he a piece of shit? He's the guy that basically he runs this like extortion business where any movie that he So he's a Hollywood producer and any movie that he produces that becomes moderately popular Like the Hurt Locker or Dallas Buyers Club He'll basically create these like blackmailing letters that he that he sends to people Because he collects their IP addresses from the Torrance and says you are

owe me $10,000 right now, or I'm going to sue you for $10 million. And so a significant amount of the people actually cave in under pressure because they're being legally threatened when in reality, there's no way that he could get $10,000 out of an individual for downloading his film. And he never actually takes anyone to court, really. He just winds up extorting them and making out-of-court settlements so he can get a shit ton of money off of supposed losses for films that, like, the Hurt Locker had such shitty release. You have to understand

that it was in like two theaters. Of course people downloaded it. You can't complain that it didn't make enough money when there was no way for people to even fucking watch it. And I'm sure it made its money back too. Like that's not an issue with piracy. That's an issue with distribution.

Was the pirated copy like a digital rip of the movie? Somehow the movie like I don't know, every once in a while there'll be a movie that. Something like that probably yeah. Oh, okay. I mean, I don't blame them for stuff like that I mean, you should go to a theater and see it

if that's the case. But then there's some movies that are fucking out for like five years. There was nowhere to watch the Hurt Locker in theaters. It had a shitty distribution. Yeah, when did it come out on DVD? Probably a few months later. Like after the Oscars.

We're talking about like between... Whatever, the point is... The point is I don't condone it. Yeah, I don't think any of us condone it. It's just sometimes these companies provide no alternative and it's like well I want to watch the movie and how the fuck else am I supposed to do it

but I would never condone piracy like oh yeah just just fucking steal movies because that's what it is at the end of the day I mean we can we can white knighted all we want we can be a fucking oh we're Robin Hood we're taking the movies and we're giving them out to everybody

but like it's completely different from that though it's not in the instances we may pirate which I do sometimes that's the reason I do it and I usually financially support the movie later on when it comes out legally. I either buy it or fucking rent it again or do something. I would never take a movie

away or take money away from people who made a movie. That's fucked up. Here's an analogy. Do you not try on clothes before you buy them? Yeah. If you're like in a store, you go, you got to make sure that it's the clothes that you actually want. You want to make sure that you look good in them. Right?

Mm-hmm. So I don't really see the big issue if people want to try out a movie before they buy it. I'm not even kidding Well that's what a trailer No, that's what a trailer is to mislead people Oh well sometimes it misleads you But that's not the point of what trailers were originally invented to be

Trailers are meant to be misleading Exactly, it's made to show a movie To convince you it's something whether it is or not At first it was made to show you what exactly what the movie is What exactly you're in for Now they use them to mislead people Because they know what people want to see Which is like shitty horror movies and superhero movies

And they use that information to mislead people But the original intention of a trailer was that. And that's the way most people use trailers still. I mean, you can narrow down some that mislead you like it comes at night. But most movies, you see a Black Panther trailer. It looks like a Marvel movie. You know exactly what you're going to get, right? So.

Well, I mean, you know exactly what you're going to get because you understand the hierarchy of Marvel Studios and who is in charge of what and the directors involved, blah, blah, blah. But as it is, I mean. There's all the movies that... I use Black Panther as an example, but most movies, you can do that. If a movie is something that people legitimately enjoy, then people will pay for it. People will want to own it in some way.

People will want to have a license to view it. You know, there's tons of nerds that will want all the special collector's shit too. You know, like, there's so many movies that have been re-released 50 times and they keep selling all these different editions of them because people love the movie. If people enjoy something, they will want to see more of it

and they'll want to support the people that created it. And just because there are a few bad apples of people that are just pirating because they can freeload, that's not an excuse to completely delegitimize all the other people that are doing it for completely, I guess, moral reasons where it's like, oh yeah, I would like to buy this film if I enjoy it. That doesn't make piracy right. I don't think there's anything really.

wrong with piracy. I think there is. You're taking money away. You're stealing something. That's what it is. You're supposed to pay to watch a movie. Then you're stealing something. If let's say somebody pirates something like the Smurfs movie, but they had no intention of seeing it and the only way that they were going to see it is if they were going to pirate it. How is that a loss of a sale? Sure, but that's one instance. And there's other people who just fucking steal the movie. Yeah, there's plenty of instances, but that's not all of them. And you're probably exaggerating how many people actually like watch the movie and then financially support it later. Because I don't know how many people do that, honestly.

I think most people who pirate a movie just pirate it and fucking move on. And they don't give any money. Like it, no matter how you want to phrase it, you're stealing a movie. Let's look at it this way. Movies are still selling and you can pirate anything you want to anyway. If the impact of piracy was as great as Hollywood is pretending that it is, then we wouldn't have Hollywood right now. because you can literally pirate anything.

People would just pirate movies and not support the movies. We already have that. It's easier to download a movie than ever. Yes. In some ways it's a good thing for the industry because it actually promotes... It's a great thing for the industry. It wouldn't get attention on them. Sure, but that still doesn't make it legal and right.

Okay. It still doesn't make it okay to fucking pirate a movie and go, oh, this is fine. Let's bring in this scenario then. Do you consider anything wrong about a friend having a copy of a movie, and showing it to you or lending it to you or invite people over for a movie watching party only one person in that room is actually seen the movie the only thing that you're doing by the agreement the agreement when you buy a DVD is that you're paying for a copy of the movie that you can do whatever you want with

and you are not really and under those yeah that's what it is that's what a DVD is when you sell all those warnings in the beginning expect people what what are the warnings say not to watch it with other human beings you you literally can't do anything you want with it if you even if you copy it for your own purposes No, you can't copy it because that's Yeah, that's not right. No, even if it's just for yourself There's so many limitations. You're buying a copy

of the movie and you're not allowed to do anything with it but watch it with other people That's fine. I'm okay with that. That keeps people But how's that different from piracy then? Has what different from piracy? Copy a movie? Yeah, no, I mean like if let's say I want to have 20 people over for for watching a movie that I own And I'm inviting people over that are interested in seeing in the movie, but they haven't paid for it. I don't really

see the big difference between that and someone downloading from somebody else. Because in both scenarios, some people are going to watch it that either were never going to watch it if they couldn't get it for free anyway. Some people are going to be watching it because it's like, oh, my friend owns it, so I don't have to pay for it. And I'm going to experience it for myself and see what it's like. And some of those people are going to like it enough to purchase it themselves. When you share art with other people and you expose people to art that they wouldn't have seen otherwise or make it easier for them to see it, you are introducing people as potential consumers to the market. A fraction of those people will become consumers if they enjoy the art

enough, you know? And if you're making good quality content, then people will pay for it because they want to own it and they enjoy supporting artists. That's all great. But if you show it to friends, you should have a copy of the movie that you paid for and that you gave money to the people who made the movie for so then you can show it to them. I'm not for fucking stealing a movie and that's what it is. All right.

You want to phrase it. It's stealing me. I mean, if it were actually stealing, then it wouldn't be called piracy. It would be called stealing. You know, if it were stealing, we wouldn't have had to create a new word called piracy for it. Stealing is when you take something from someone else

and they no longer have that thing. It's like making a copy of some, you know those old shitty. commercials like you wouldn't download a purse it's like well I mean if downloading a purse meant that the person who owns the purse still actually has their purse but I now have a copy of that purse and theirs isn't lost and you actually didn't prevent them from owning that same thing then sure I would download a purse why wouldn't I make a copy of a purse you know that's that's completely different than stealing that's why they call it piracy and not stealing I mean

Hollywood loves to call it stealing too but I mean it is it is different you know No, because it's a product We're going to end it here But it's a product that you're selling for money And if you're not going to give Yeah, it is a good question If you're not going to give money to the person Who made you the product

Then it's fucking stealing And that's how I consider it Anyway, we should probably leave it there Sorry Alex It's a gray area guys There's truth in both sides I mean There is

That's why it's an interesting question Fucking Fucking mediator over here Side Liberals get the bullet too Do you want to end the Q&A there? I want to keep ranting but let's end it Because I can argue about this for fucking days, man

Yeah, I feel like we'd go around in circles for a bit But one day Let us know in the comments Who's the bigger idiot? Let us know. Who do you agree with? We'll put a poll on Twitter Leave a comment below, let me know Oh nice, I like that one

Yeah, that's a good thing. good one. Somebody needs to recommend the movie. That's right. That's me, boy. Hello. So this is going to be an obvious one, but people want me to recommend it,

and you guys haven't seen it. Filmed by Paul Thomas Anderson called Punch Drunk Love. Wonderful movie. Awesome. You guys will thoroughly enjoy it, and I'm in the mood for some PTA. I already own it on Blu-ray.

Oh, great. So now you just... I was going to watch it the other day. Pop it in. You have a downloaded on your computer. from Pirate Bay. I'll go, yeah, I'll go taunt that now, thanks. I'd love me some PTA.

Yeah, but this is one of his best movies. It's a wonderful movie, so. Okay, has it got lots of fart jokes on it? The second best director named Paul Anderson. That's right, Paul Anderson. Not to be confused with Paul W.S. Anderson, who also makes great movies like Death Race. That was the joke.

Yeah. It's just explained him for no reason. I hope it's as good as big daddy. I don't know if it's as good, but it's up there. What about the water boy, as good as that? I don't know. It's better than Jack and Jill. Oh, of course, Jack and Jill.

Or that one where he's like a cobbler. That's a classic. Oh, the one where he becomes someone else and then has sex with his wife. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fun. 51st days. What an awful film. Anyway.

All right. Yeah, thanks that recommendation. Yeah, thank you for that recommendation. It's been on my watch list for a while. Can't wait. Enjoy it. Another Philip Seymour Hoffman movie, too. Oh, yeah. Hell yeah.

All right. Thank you all for listening to this episode of Sardonicast. If you would like to support the show because you're not a freeload in piece of shit pirate. watching this content for free on our demonetized YouTube channel then you can support us by going to sardonicast.com

$2 a month will get you these episodes early as soon as they're edited usually a couple days before everybody else Also there's a Patreon patreon.com slash Sardonicast And if you want to join in on the discussion for Punch Drunk Love just make sure to watch it

within the next two weeks because we'll be discussing it and spoiling it in the next episode. That's right. We got them, ladies and gentlemen. We got them. That was fun. Yeah. Good job.

If I catch any of you watching this for free, if I catch any of you, you're going down. I'm going to sue you. I'm Nicholas Chartier. $10,000. That's scary. I'm going to sue you for $10 million.

All right. Thank you, everybody. Bye-bye Bye-bye See everyone Peace bye