Sardonicast - Sardonicast 141: Spider-Verse 2, Wendy & Lucy feat. Karsten Runquist

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Buy Sardonicast T-Shirts, and other merchandise at https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast. Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthemoviemaker Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Ralph's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ralphthemoviemaker Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Fan art: https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/zl1x6a/so_no_one_told_your_life_was_gonna_be_sardonic/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/z6fgiq/heres_my_sardonicast_fan_art_xd/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/zorp93/sardonicast_age_of_resistance/ Timestamps: 0:00 Beau is Afraid 34:42 Cocaine Bear 52:13 Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within 1:32:42 Questions 2:01:09 Outro / recommendation

Three. Please. All right, sorry. Three, two, one. What are we? Some kind of Wendy and Lucy 2008? That was a quote from Evil Dead. And this is Adam.

This is a podcast called Sardonicast. I'm Adam from Your Movie Sex. Hello, everybody. Hi. Hi. I'm Ralph. from Ralph the movie maker And I'm Alex

M. H.G. Cauticintrae, but that's not all. Got a guest here today. Do you want to introduce yourself? My name is Carson Runquist and yeah, good to be here. It's pretty surreal to be honest. Oh, yeah? Surreal.

I remember like three years ago, someone sent me like a, I think the podcast was still very new, but someone made like a parody of this podcast. with like them doing impressions. William. Yeah.

I was the guest on the fake version of this and uh, so it's an honor to be on the room. Oh, really? I forgot about that video. That's a great video. Life and states art. Yeah. Yeah. So we've actually, uh, we met IRL, uh, at TIF.

Um, oh, very briefly. Right. Yeah. It was between movies. I had barely gotten any sleep, I think. My parents were in the Airbnb or condo or whatever. Right, right. The queen had died, and they were just playing that nonstop on Canadian television,

and my dad was, like, just being pissed off that they wouldn't shut up about it. That was a really crazy, like, hour that we spent together. Because I was like, we didn't watch any movies. We just kind of hung out in the Airbnb and watched that. And I was like, this is great. Listen to my dad complain about the queen coverage and just like, wow, shut up. Still a fresh wound over here, man. Yeah, it's still, still hurts.

No, it was great. We also met, I think, in like 2019 at TIF before we saw Parasite together, which was pretty cool. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, yeah. And we almost met at Cannes. which would have been even cooler. We were almost there at the same time but weren't. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. The interactions, the social interactions that I remember with people the most are ones where I'm not watching movies with them. I find that if I'm watching a movie with somebody, my memories are about the movie. And then. Yeah. Well, yeah.

Every, like, this happens like a hundred times a year where I'll be like, oh, have you seen this movie? And then they'll be like, yeah, I saw it with you in a theater. I'm like, oh. I'm sorry I don't know which movies I've seen with which people actually No yeah Comprehension

Because some movies I'll see more than once I was telling I was like Scott have you seen The Climb because I remembered watching it at Sundance And then I forgot I also watched it at Tiff with him Right right So as a festival goer What is your favorite film festival?

I mean I really like TIF to be honest It's, I mean, Cannes is the obvious one, but TIF just feels a little bit more accessible. Way more. It's more fun. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot looser. Can I'm always like a little bit on edge. Yeah. Because you have to like dress up.

How is it more accessible? TIF is something you can access as like the public. Can is invite only. Yeah. And you're spending the entire festival scared that someone will take away your badge if you like look at someone the wrong way. Right. I got lucky enough to get a ticket to one of the premieres.

It was the Gasparanoe movie that was there that year. And I remember for the premieres, you have to, like, wear suit and tie. Black tie. Black tie, sorry. And, yeah, I, but I think because it was like a midnight Gasparanoe movie there being a little bit chill about it, but still, I was, like, on edge the entire time I was in line. And, yeah. Yeah.

Tiff, you could just show up sometimes and you're good. It's like the main theater at Con where they have, where you see the footage of like the eight hour standing ovation for the new Tarantino film or whatever, right? So everybody's dressed really fancy. And it's all just about the media buzz there, right? Like, the standing ovation, that's not because people like the movie that much. It's because half the crowd is people who worked on it and they want to get the press. Right. Exactly.

Yeah. With Tiff, it's way more public-centric. And it's still, everybody that's there is still interested in movies. Sure, you'll get like the odd person every once in a while that's like, okay, who brought you here? Like, you're not paying attention to the movie, put away your phone. But like, for the most part, the most respectful, quiet, serious audience. And there's no gatekeeping about it. There's no like, oh, you can't attend this film.

Like, it's accessible to the public. They serve popcorn and drinks, right? You know? Yeah. I've had like hot dogs. A con, there's like nothing. Yeah. It's weird.

A lot of those, when I was at con, the pop-up little theaters, they didn't serve any food, no popcorn, no drinks at all. You just had to make sure you had a water bottle on you. And there was nowhere to use the bathroom. And if you exited the theater, you wouldn't be able to get back in. So, like, you were locked in and you were like, I hope you don't have to piss. Right. Yeah.

That's stressful. Yeah. They also like, they let the, at least for the premieres, they let the, at least for the premieres, they let the entire, the massive line of, of, uh, audience members in first. And then you have to like sit there for sometimes like an hour top while they do the whole red carpet thing for the, and you just like watch them on the theater screen. Yeah. Walk in.

It's just, it's like a weird, weird vibe. Yeah. I mean, Khan has definitely, you know, earned its place as the most prestigious film festival. It's very serious business and it's very industry focused. But TIF right, right. is my favorite film festival because I can bring other people to it, you know? Yeah, yeah. And have fun with other people in my life that I enjoy and, you know, have like a chill day and, you know, see a bit of Toronto.

I see the best movies at TIF too. Yeah, I feel like by then the stuff. Yeah, they kind of like weed out a lot of the worst stuff from Cann and you just get the hits most of the time. Even if they do have most of what premieres at Khan, you know. enough about the movie and its reception by the time that it's at Tiff. Whereas at Cannes, every single movie is a premiere. Nothing has a trailer. Half of them are from people who have never directed anything before.

And so you're kind of just walking in like, I hope this movie's kind of good. Yeah. Like you're the ones creating the buzz at Con. Whereas at Tiff, you're able to be like, okay, I know a little bit about how this was received, what to expect, who directed it, what awards it won at Khan, what it didn't win, how, you know, and then you're able to make more informed decisions. But at Khan, it's like, I don't know how many movies I want to see at Khan without fully knowing what I'm getting into, you know?

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So go to TIF if you're going to go to a festival. The best film festival experiences are ones where you know, like, a little bit about what you want to watch and not just pick random movies. That's why Sundance is especially tough because that's like mostly the first time. directors and my track record with Sundance is so bad.

I usually get all the misses and like one hit. Yeah. It's so bad. I don't want to shit on Sundance too hard, but like it's just, it's at a weird point in the year. It's in like January or something, right? And so like everything is trying to be a premiere essentially. Sometimes they'll have things from the previous year.

Right. That we're at like TIF or something sometimes. But a lot of these are like first time directors. And the festival is very like American indie focused compared to a lot of other festivals. And to be fair, Tiff has, you know, an overabundance of Canadian independent filmmakers, right? Right. But I don't know. It's a, it's a, the American indie ones.

I mean, you could say this about Canadian ones too. But there's something that like is very parody worthy about those films. We're like, you. Yeah. I think there was a YouTube video that was like every Sundance film. just made like a fake trailer sort of thing. I wouldn't say that that was like entirely accurate, but there is definitely a type for like American indie.

Absolutely. Very crowd, pleasy. Yeah, that's the word. Straight to Hulu type. Yeah. It's like it's no shit Kota won the audience award at Sundance.

You know? Of course, that's a very sundancey movie for it to win. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. But yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Y'all, other guests got some questions for the guest? I mean, other hosts got to quit. You're not guests. I'm the only host. Yeah, I'm a guest, yeah. Now, I've got to mention the letterbox thing, right? All of us except Adam, I think, are big letterbox fans. But I kind of consider you the king of letterbox.

You've got an incredibly large following on there. Oh, I didn't know. It's your secret. You're like a letterbox minmaxer? like what we see in your reviews like the top there. I didn't know we had a celebrity here. A letterbox celebrity. I really don't know how it got to this point.

To be honest, it's not even that great of a thing. Like, because like you said, yeah, anybody that sees or like looks up a movie that I've seen, usually I'm like the top review and I don't write these reviews with that in mind. So a lot of the time they're like, what the fuck? I was this guy at all at the top of all the reviews. Because most of my reviews are just like one-line jokes like that's what sells on that one-series. That's exactly. Yeah, right.

Yeah. That's like how I use that. Because it's like if I want to write an actual review out, I have my channel and stuff. But yeah, yeah. I really just use the site to like keep track of what I'm watching and as like a public diary. So I don't take it that seriously, which is why it's really bizarre that I'm the most fond. Yeah. Do you even like look at the comments and stuff like that?

Because I don't use it that way. I turned up my comments like a long time ago, yeah. They are particularly bad on Letterbox. There's something about it. Oh, hell yeah. I turned them off. Yeah. It's so bad.

I'm glad to hear that you don't take it very seriously and that you're killing it. Because there's a lot of people on Letterbox that are trying to replicate that exact same sort of success by being like, how can I make the most simplistic tweet about the film that's kind of funny that doesn't really say anything about how I really felt about it. isn't really serious just to get the attention. Like, that's, that's what kind of turns me away from it is because it's like more of a social media website than like a film logging website. Yeah. Is I'm just like, I'm not interested in the like attention. Yeah, that's why I don't take like the, I don't take the ratings on there like very seriously because it's like a lot of like joke reviews. Exactly. Yeah. But I was just saying, like seeing your success and it made me want to use it more. I'm like, oh, let me use this more. And yeah, I've had some like success on there

too because of that. Well, it's like, oh, it's mainly because of Carston. I'm like, oh, yeah. this works. Yeah. It's super fun. Yeah, yeah. Just don't look at the comments. Yeah. Yeah.

And even like the... Yeah. And even like the YouTube reviews too. Like, it inspired me to make more of those. And I'm like, oh yeah, these work too. It's just like talking about the movie like normally. Yeah. I feel like the whole schick of like, you know, like you doing a character or whatever,

like to make like reviewing movies ironically. I feel like that's kind of like died out. Now people just like, yeah, I just kind of like want to actually hear like what people think about movies like, you know, like cosmonaut and like Carston. You know, like that kind of that. Yeah. It's just like more honest. Yeah.

Like even if you're joking, it's like, you know, you're not putting it on a character or whatever. Exactly. Yeah. I think, um, I think you guys have had him on the podcast, but Joel Haver, uh, he's a great account. His are like, they don't take themselves too seriously, but they're always like very, like, personal reviews, I think he is. Fulfle as well, yeah.

Yeah. He's a very authentic and earnest person. Yeah. A lot of filmmakers on there too, like Sean Baker and, you know, actors. Yeah. on there like the guy from Deadwood I'm blanking on his name right now but you know there's like all kinds of actors and yeah part yeah it's great you've a bowl back in the day I think uh Jerry Seinfeld's daughter follows me which is like one of my funniest

like oh the one sort of celebrity how did you even figure that out I think someone pointed out there like I follow her and I saw she follows you and I'm like wow it's that's pretty crazy I guess so Karsten. Yeah. When were he getting Kars 11? Nice. One day.

Alex, you ask the real question. I love it. Yeah, you're on fire today. I quit. You're on fire today. By the way, the guy's name is Jim Beaver, the guy from Deadwood. Jim Beaver. Oh, right, right, yeah.

Yeah. Carson 11. That was a good one. Thank you. My running bit on my channels that I'm like waiting for them to make a 10th Cars movie. Yeah. Cars 10, you know.

They better. Cars X. Yeah. One day. One day. It's about family. Alex, did you have a question? Yeah, it's about family.

I don't know. Ralph, do you have anything else throughout? I really want to get into Spider. Yeah, yeah. But I guess I just wanted to say like, congrats on your movie, Carston also. Oh, thank you. Thank you. It was like, I think when I was on your podcast last year, you were like, had it in festivals

or whatever. and yeah people have like seen it but I think that's great that you went the festival route with it because I know like many people are afraid to do that because they think their movie

will get like rejected or whatever but I'm glad you went the route with it I feel like that's really cool like that's like a yeah that's like a great thing to do oh thank you yeah don't get me wrong we got rejected to so many festivals

I mean yeah that happens yeah it's yeah it's still like you can always find one yeah right we had some success there's all if you'd look

obscure enough festivals. Yeah. The fact that you even like tried that and got it out there, I feel like adds like a lot of like legitimacy to your work, you know? And I feel like a lot of filmmakers online don't even try to do that. But they should. They should try to do that because I've done that too. I've had success with it.

Right. You know, I feel like it's a great thing to do. I had mixed feelings about it because, yeah, I mean, I look at people like you and Joel and it's like so many, I mean, if you have a platform on YouTube, you might as well just put it right on YouTube and I was like, why am I even doing? Because like the point of festivals, I guess to

get more eyes on it. And I guess that was a big draw. I was like, it would be nice. It's a type of a. Yeah, yeah. I was like, it'd be nice to show this to people that aren't my audience because I feel like if you show it to your audience, they'll just eat it up and I'm like, I want a more honest reaction, I guess.

But yeah, it definitely when I was doing it felt very old school weirdly, because I was like, I could just put this on YouTube and be done with it. But I think it was a really beneficial experience and I learned a lot from the process. It definitely gives you more credibility. Also, yeah, the industry people are at festivals.

If you want to like further your platform and career and make connections and who knows, maybe you'll meet someone that will help you on your next film. Who knows, maybe you'll meet a good collaborator or someone willing to put money into it, you know, like or distribute it even, you know? Yeah That's what the festival route is for and you're Missing that when you publish solely on YouTube Right

It sort of just like sits there when you put it on YouTube Yeah Like people watch it but I think with the festival thing There's like the networking and like the Q&A And it's this like a special experience And not to say that there aren't industry people Watching things on YouTube but like there's no It's not the setting to be reaching out

And connecting like you would just have to hope that someone watching just feels like contacting your email or whatever, you know? Whereas the implication at a festival is that you're there to do like actual business. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's just different. I mean, it depends on the movie.

I would probably do it again. But yeah, I totally understand why so many people just put their stuff right to YouTube because I'm like, yeah, I don't know. It just depends on how you want to go about it. It's quite a process. Yeah. It's like, it takes a long time. That's mainly it. It's like you have your movie.

done and you have to wait like eight months for like that sucks yeah that was the worst part and then like weird rules about like how much it was published before and like yeah yeah can't just put it on YouTube and then a festival yeah exactly yeah it's annoying yeah all right speaking of letterboxed five minutes ago the top rated movie of all time on letterboxed is the new spiderverse movie true true yeah is there a term for like the opposite of of review bombing? It's still, I don't know bombing is necessarily

in a negative implication. No. I think you can bomb it. It's review bombing in a positive way. I guess. Really? Yeah, I don't know. People just liked it though.

I feel like bombing is, I don't know, scary imagery. It's pretty crazy though. What about a love bomb? Okay. Yeah. Love bomb. Yeah.

We should review bomb Oppenheimer. Oh, God. but I'm not. Ooh, nice. Yeah. Oh, fun of this episode. Yeah, lots of good ones. Yeah, you got that, I don't know.

No, no. If you want. If you want. No, that was too good. I saw a tweet that was like, we should let, um, never, never mind. Oh, damn it. Well, you got to post a tweet in our Discord then. Post it in the chat.

See how hard it is? Like, once you're here, people give me, people give me shit. But, like, once you're actually, like, in this zone, it's hard to, like, you know. I get all anxious still I like cry before each episode I'm so anxious Tears of joy I imagine Yeah sure

So let me just say Spiderverse it would have been great if I could hear it If I could hear any of the dialogue Then it would have been great But I couldn't hear anything The whole movie? Really? Is it that bad for you? I feel like it got better

as the movie went along, but like, I was just thinking at the beginning when Gwen's doing like her drum solo or whatever, I'm like, I had no idea what she was saying in that scene. I'm like, what the hell's going on? Is this the theater? Maybe if I saw an RPX, it would have been better? It's apparently a bad copy. Yeah? It's, uh, they're shipping out new copies of the film. So certain theaters got like an incorrect, like, I don't know if it was an earlier copy or

I don't know what the fuck their excuse was, but they, a lot of theaters had bad stuff. Crazy. And I also experienced bad sound. Yeah, the audio seemed unfinished in the early scenes. I've seen it twice, though, and the first viewing, yeah, I was noticing the weird kind of mixing problems and it's something off about it. But only just that beginning section, but then when I saw it at different theater, different day, I really didn't notice as many problems, so it must be a case-by-gose thing.

And I guess it's solved now with the new version of it. Yeah. Yeah, I want to see it again. You can call your theater and ask if they've have the good version and they'll know. Right. Which is funny. The patched version. Like it was a big thing. They got the memo for sure.

They got like an email. Yeah. Yeah. That was crazy because yeah. It kind of ruined my experience of the movie. I mean, not entirely, but I wish I'd seen it with like better sound. It was distracting. I don't know if it got like you were saying Ralph.

I don't know if it got better if I just got like used to it. And yeah, it was just kind of off the entire. Like I could, you could hear people like eating their popcorn. and it like really took me out of the yeah it was too soft it was like too low you know it's just like it was hard to hear at points yeah yeah but still pretty good movie I liked it a lot I enjoy it pretty good

yeah man I fucking love this movie this was this was made for me yeah this is me all over yeah man let's even begin it's so like maximalist it's so visually kind of noisy in the best way possible. I honestly don't even feel like you've seen it until you've seen it a second time. Yeah, and it's so like quick, even though it's like two hours, 20. It honestly feels like an hour long to me. It just flies by.

Yeah, just all this different art styles, just a true sequel as well, you know. It doesn't feel like a repeat of that original movie. It feels like a true, like extension, a real, like it's expanding on the characters. it's continuing on in the way you want to see and yeah really fleshing out those characters and just every angle they chose to approach like kind of making it a Gwen movie to so we have to address the part one part two thing because like i watched your quickie adam you mentioned like towards the end it's like so much so many strings are like being set up and you're like there's no way this can be this can wrap up in one movie like this doesn't make sense new doors

are being open right now yeah this doesn't make sense and i had the same feeling when i was watching it at that first time. And yeah, and when it, when it cut to the, to be continued, my audience did grow and they were like, what? No, like, it was an audible, like, reaction. So I guess people didn't fully know. And I only kind of half knew. If I knew, I forgot.

And it does. It leaves you on a weird place, doesn't it? Because it's the Dune problem where I love the movie. But I feel like I've got to hold back some of my full thoughts because we've only got half the story. no way. Like, there's so much more to get. The only reason I feel that way about Dune is because I wasn't fully into Dune. And I was like, well, maybe this in context with the next part will help me enjoy it more, and I'm giving

it a bit of credit, right? Whereas this, something like Spider-Verse 2 or something like Kill Bill Volume 1, where it's like, I love the core experience of that film on its own enough that it's not really dependent on what happens next. And no matter what happens next, It's not going to make me go like, oh, well, then this movie is worse because of it, right? I don't think so. Yeah, and it does actually feel more complete than Dune. Yeah. I do think there are arcs that are completed.

There is, yeah, I mean, it's like empire. I don't really like the movie that follows it as much, but I'll watch Empire again and again. Yeah, yeah, true. And, like, it's almost like an Avengers Infinity War type ending or, like, leaves you on that cliffhanger, ends up kind of a dark note. Kind of, but even Infinity War had like a winding down before the credits

not just like Yeah, I meant like that's like a part one, part two also. It's like an ending of a trailer. Yeah, I liked how the movie started like the focus on Gwen. Like that was different like focusing on her. I thought it was like a good way to spice it up and then like he cut to Ma's later on. I enjoyed that. There's a lot of, like, good decisions with, like, the storytelling in it and lots of fun characters, lots of, like, the different versions of Spider-Man were funny.

The Lego Spider-Man. That was great. One of our best. Yeah. Spoiler discussion, everybody. Yeah. Well, like, the references, like, because I think Phil Lord Chris Miller did the Lego movie, right? And they were, like, producers on this.

True. So that was, like, fun. Lowell reference to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think, yeah, Lord and Miller, like, you've really got to throw my hats out to them because we're so often complaining about this, like, annoying meta, self-aware kind of writing that's like this really lazy shorthand that so many movies fall into. But I feel like they always find that, like, just the right level where it's like, yeah, there is some self-awareness to it. The jokes are kind of meta and breaking the fourth wall. But the characters are consistent. There are emotional moments. and you are emotionally attached to what is going on in the film. It doesn't destroy it all the way down to the motivation of the Miguel character, who's kind of like, I love this detail.

He's kind of like an obsessed Spider-Man fan. It's kind of like pointing directly at those types of fans. You know, the canon event thing. It's all about these people who are so obsessed with these really rigid kind of constraints that especially these big IP characters like Spider-Man kind of come with, you know, all this baggage. I love kind of framing that, that villain with that kind of motivation, but not making it so obvious that it pulls you out of the movie. That's great.

And man, the other villainous force, this spot character, I'd never heard of this guy before. And I think he's like, like, Z-list Spider-Man character. I don't think anyone really. Yeah, that's like kind of the joke, I think. Yeah, it's like, he's so obscure. Yeah, exactly. But they made that his motivation. Like, he doesn't want to be a, how do they phrase it, the, not the creature of the week, the villain of the week.

Yeah, but it's it's mostly that that voice than the Jason Shortsman. Yeah. Yeah, because it really like, you don't expect it because it does open like, you know, any number of superhero movies. We have the throwaway character at the beginning, just introducing the tone with the fight scene and everything. Yeah. But it just continues to escalate. And it's like such a great idea for a villain to take, yeah, this lame kind of dorky,

visually and everything down to the powers is even like comedic and all of it is comedic. But just, yeah, the escalation over. And by the time the movie ends, he's this genuine threat and what's foreshadowed with what he's probably going to do is, like, really menacing and threatening. And yeah, especially that visual design. I love his, like, lanky, gangly thing with that hole right in the middle of his face and the kind of these edgy hole jokes. Stop joking about the holes.

Yeah. Just a really clever, cool villain. I can't get over that visual design of him. I thought that was like, just like the stuff I used to draw when I was like a teen, I love this kind of stuff. And man, just visually, artistically, it's so ambitious. I think it's got like six different art styles, art directions throughout the whole movie with all these different universes, like the interpretive kind of stuff with the,

whenever it's in Gwen's universe and the spider punk stuff, they're like, man, I just can't stop gushing about the visuals of this movie. I even found, like, if we want to talk about that, a spider punk character that I think people are really gravitating towards. He's this British Spider-Man, so, of course. Did you guys actually have any issue understanding him? Because I had some complaints about. I did, yeah.

Because he's got quite a strong, like, British accent, like a London accent. A couple parts, but I was very proud of myself overall. I mean, the sound mixed in, how... With that. I feel like I got some of it. I do wish there were subtitles, but he has some great lines. He had some really funny lines. Again, like writing the line of like he's kind of like a parody of that type of person,

but he also just has some straight up great lines. Hate the AM, hate the PM one is a particular standout to me. Really funny. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I found one of the animators who worked on that character Hobie and just like him detailing, like, how many layers that that character just on his own was made up of. like listen to this, right? So the character's body was animated on threes,

meaning every three frames. Yeah. And then his guitar was on fours, outline on twos. And then so it's like, yeah, these different like styles and, God,

it's so complicated. Yeah. Yeah, it's really cool. It doesn't distract it. It really like, just the whole framing, like just really works.

You're never pulled out. it's really quite a feat because it really could clash if it wasn't like expert animators bringing this all together because we haven't really talked about this three directors working on this and they're all like pretty storied

where they got big like fat IMDs loads of credits we're talking one of the directors worked on Last Airbender amazing cartoon back in the day then you have the director and writer of soul. I know you didn't like it, Adam, but I feel like emotionally that film works really well,

and that kind of translates into this. He also wrote one night in Miami, which is another kind of really thoughtful film. And then he got the production designer of Cloudy the Chance of Meatballs, who's also this, he's a prolific background design artist from that awesome Tartovsky Clone Wars and the Buzz Light, your style come on. So it's like just this storied, this storied animators all coming together it's for this like super ambitious project that's like pushing everything in the medium and it's like as far as American animation is concerned

like I man I don't know if there's better than this in this genuinely at this day and age especially with like characters designs this good with writing this good with man just every single element is just so perfect yeah I think it's kind of funny that elemental is dropping the same month and then like next

next month I think is some DreamWorks film I forget but they're both like squid movie yeah it's both just like these like blobby like a real who gives a shit yeah it just looks so bad coming up to this like

yeah I'm glad you brought those up because yes it's like nothing special it's yeah it's like they've been making the same movie for like 10 years and this is yeah it's so fresh it's so original yeah yeah Daniel Coluio too is the spider punk guy yeah he was great of like the whole cast Oscar Isaac is the you know Miguel and it's like really solid cast actors you know the animation's gorgeous

it's really funny yeah I don't think it gets much better than this I mean I don't know you think boss baby's better actually that might they might actually be better boss baby yeah maybe a bit maybe more hilarious we're talking about the sequel maybe a bit more Kino yeah yeah yeah yeah has brought up this conversation about superior fatigue and it's like oh maybe that's not a thing maybe it's just we want movies that are interesting maybe the movies are bad right yeah right one's thought of that they just really it's just really two good ones in a row and be like oh okay we're fine with this uh cool also like there's there's if we're going to talk

about like what they're doing that's making it successful is sure they're taking from existing characters but like you mentioned with this spot character who you know know, I've never heard of before as a not obsessive comic book person. You know, it's pretty much what James Gunn did. It's what a lot of the successful superhero creators, directors, directors have done is they haven't just gone like, oh, what's something that's already successful? Like, let's do Joker again. We'll make it Jared Leto this time. They don't just go like, oh, what's something that somebody else has already done? There's this entire wealth, this entire catalog, where like, sure, just because this character isn't universally beloved and you can't create hype in the trailer of like, oh, yeah, they're finally bringing this character into the screen.

Like, that's already been done with every character that everybody cares about. Take from the characters that people don't know about. And you can even, even if something doesn't work about them in the comics, you can turn it into your own thing. You have creative liberties to make it better and fix what doesn't work about it. So, yeah, like, they saw something that had a lot of potential. they were like, oh, we can have some really funny, entertaining fight scenes with this character. We can play on the fact that it's a bit of a joke, but we can still make it intimidating and have it be a good villain, right?

So, superhero fatigue, you're exactly right. It's mostly just, oh, the movies are bad. And everybody is exhausted by the bad movies. Yeah. I think the same can be said about, like, the multiverse thing, because I feel like I've personally gotten a little exhausted with that. and I was like genuinely surprised at how well this pulled it off because it didn't feel like they didn't use it the same way Marvel has been using it where they just kind of Marvel just uses that to keep things going and like give like fan service and it felt like they actually used right it's it's like used in the plot properly in this film and like visually seeing all the Spider-Man's it's like they understand the you know the potential that something like they're has to actually look really cool.

Yeah, I was just surprised at how well it worked for me. No one's ever really gone. Yeah, they always find like the emotional angle. Yeah. Like that whole montage where they're going through the canon events, like outside of the kind of commentary of that, it's just an effective scene and it's great motivation, all building up to that choice Mars has to make

and like the most Spider-Man thing ever. Like, yeah, of course he's not going to sacrifice his dad. And that chase scene is incredible. Apparently it took them four years to like organize and animate that and it's just so many character models. There's so many. Insane. Man, and they're all like, yeah, all the character designs are fantastic. It's, yeah.

It's beautiful to watch. The budget at Sony went up. Only 100 million? I would have assumed more, actually. Wow. Yeah, that's another funny thing. Like, I know it's not, it's, I think it's only about 10 million more than the first movie. That's fucking insane.

Which is, yeah, really respectable. incredibly respectable. Yeah. Way, like the visuals on this are like insanely. Well, I guess they get to reuse some assets from the first one, but it's not like that much. No, I. Yeah, yeah. I was looking at like an old trailer for the first one.

And I was actually surprised at how different this new one looks than that. Because that had like that sort of like 3D like comic book style. And this barely has that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, which kind of also surprised me how different. the visual style was. Yeah, it was almost like a filter over the first movie. Yeah, yeah. I did rewatch the first movie, like a week ago. You hate it now? Um, and, no, I actually do think it's better overall. Oh, fun. The animation and visuals are better and across the spiderverse, but, um,

yeah, I probably agree with you, Alex. I think it's just more complete. I think it's, I don't know, there's just something about it, uh, the way it comes together. Um, it just feels like a better crescendo better story for Miles. The hero moment he gets to the where he jumps off the tower and that whole arc is just so satisfying. And I just really like the dynamic between Peter B. Parker and Miles as well in that movie.

The characters are really good. Humor works really well. Yeah. But yeah, it is pretty close to me. I heard that by making him carry a baby in this movie, the writers were trying to say that men are bad. They're masculine. Yeah.

Oh, really? Oh, dude. Because he's the only male character in the movie. Sorry, white male. People are complaining this one is too woke or whatever. Whatever that means. Yeah, with like Spider-Women. I thought, I didn't think anything was too woke, and then they made every character in this movie trans.

So now I'm just, I don't know, they might have gotten a bit too far. Just wait till the next movie. Yeah. Then everyone's non-binary. Yeah, I'll be the next thing. It's like, if you like the first movie, but then this one is suddenly too woke for you. It's like, were you paying attention? Right.

Yeah. Are your eyes even open? All the point of this was to kind of take it away from being associated with one character. Anyone can wear the mask. That's like one of the main ongoing themes with these movies. I think it's just kind of reflective at this point. When you're a hammer and everything's a nail. Yeah, they don't know what they're on about.

They actually don't know whether it's just brain rot. What are you? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you are right. It's fucking, yeah, it's stupid. I loved the animation with Gwen's intro that really made up for the sound mixing. But yeah, I loved what was going on there.

I thought that visually, like, just everything was turned up to 11 for this movie. It crossed the barrier as to just allowing me to just soak it in and be like, wow, this is a really fun. visual treat and I loved the like the 2D boss she was fighting and I have to imagine you know the amount of layers in that as well uh the amount of different animators working on that character because that that was pulled off really well that was a fun thing to sort of just pick a part in my brain and try to think about yeah I just thought I thought that this film in terms of what it offers to me both in style and tone and pacing and even humor was just so much better than the first film for me.

Like, it was like, okay, yeah, this is my Spider-Man now. Now I get something. And yeah, the pacing is just like once it starts, it just doesn't stop. And I love movies like that where it's like, you know, if there's any downtime, it's brief and it really just feels like, oh, wow, like, you know, the stakes are raising the action is getting more and more intense, it doesn't slow down. You don't feel this sort of like, ah, why is this scene happening? You know, everything just kind of makes sense.

Yeah, it's a two and a half hour. It's a two and a half hour long movie and it basically flew by for me. Yeah, it's really tight. I was wondering what you guys thought about the music in this one compared to the first one because I thought it worked a lot better. Same. This time around than the first time for me? Less licensed music.

Yeah, the licensed musical of the original school. Because the original score, I'm obsessed with it. Daniel Pemberton, I think his name is. Yeah. Man, it's incredible. I love all the light motifs all these character has. It's like, it's seeping into memes as well, right? The Miguel, like, theme, whenever he's on screen, kind of like prowler in that first movie,

he's got that really recognizable little, like, sting. Right. And it's really effective. It really is engaging. It makes these characters have a particular presence, you know, when I'm on screen. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I probably prefer, like, the music in the... one, honestly, even though, that's probably like my one thing with the first movie. It's like

the licensed music's a little too much at certain points. Yeah. That wasn't like a major criticism for me. It was more like a nitpick. Um, yeah, I thought the music. Yeah, same. The original score on both is great, I think. Yeah, it's just the licensed music. Yeah. If you want to have a playlist movie, there's nothing wrong with that. Like, there's tons of, every Quentin Tarantino movie is a playlist movie, right? It's his playlist. Yeah, good fellas. Good fellas is like a playlist movie. But he puts a lot of thought. He thinks about what songs he wants to use before throwing them in the movie. Whereas the first Spider-Verse, it felt like they were just trying to include, like, a lot of artists for cross-promotion. Remember, it's a Sony film. They're

going to throw in a lot of ads. Even in this one, it's like, ah, the Sony headphones and blah, blah, blah, blah, you can notice it. But in the first film, it kind of felt like, okay, how many of these artists are signed to Sony records? Like, it really just felt like they were just throwing in a bunch of artists and it didn't really matter, like Little Wayne, Jane Smith. Like, there was a scene that was, I'll always remember. remember this, there was a scene that was supposed to be like emotionally sad and just the song that they chose over top of it was so cheesy and so insincere in its emotions that it took away from the character moment in the film, whereas I never felt that way about this newest film.

That was something that really, you know, just didn't gel with me in the first show. Yeah, yeah, that's early in the first one when the Spider-Man dies. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, not the best song choice. Yeah, yeah. Could have been better. It feels like it's like fighting the actual movie for attention. Like, the music seems like take over a bit in that first one, whereas it kind of lives in the world in this movie.

And I'm like, that seems like... Complementary. Yeah, it seems like the kind of thing that the characters would be listening to in these scenes and just feels right. Yeah. Yeah, thrown as much licensed music as you want, just have it be purposeful and have it gel with the film and not clash. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, you mentioned Sony, right?

This is kind of, my biggest problem with this movie, right, is feeling this. The overlords. For the original, I don't think they, I don't think they knew what they had on their hands quite as much with that original. Whereas this one, I feel like there's a little bit tinkering. I can't, I can't with the Venom thing. Like, why did they have the reference Venom? I don't want to be. Oh, I forgot about that.

Oh, yeah, with the convenience store. Yeah. I was listening to a review. like someone else on the YouTube had like made for this movie and they were talking about this film as if it sits in the MCU because like the Donald Glover like reference and stuff and it's like

this is everything I want I want this to be its own thing God no please why you have to honestly probably why they canaanize like Garfield and McGuire right that's honestly probably exactly why yeah exactly whereas I don't feel like the

I felt that in that first movie that was the only time I was kind of pulled out was that um even that's like for a few seconds that venom reference that that felt like 10 minutes long to me like I just I don't want to be reminded of that movie it's not like a fun reference what exactly happened with the venom reference spot is like he is when he goes he goes inside himself and then he figures out you can go to like any oh yeah and then he goes to the shop from venom um with that lady I forgot that's what it was from yeah as an excruciating little reference um And then there's, yeah, the multiple references to

there's Donald Glover in there. There's... What was Donald Glover from in the MCU? What did he do? He is in Spider-Man Homecoming, right? Holy fuck. There's like illusions in his dialogue that he's the power. For that to be not even in my memory.

Like, this is new information for me. Holy shit. Homecoming was so boring. Mm. Yeah, it was unfortunate that stuff to me. The need to shove that in, you know? Because it's like... The celebration of the character...

Like that's what was so good about that original movie to me was they create this new Spider-Man voiced by Chris Pine, who's kind of an amalgamation of all this stuff you know. They do do the references to the Ramey movies to the stuff you know, the Spider-Man 3 gags and whatnot. But it's this new character that's doing it. It's not like showing Toby Maguire doing it. It's not pulling you out in quite the same way. It's more of like a cute little wink-wink-wink nudge reference. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, this is like grinding everything a whole to like literally show a human actor in this like beautiful animated movie.

And it's like, it just affects everything for me. That's the only thing that, like, really bug me about it. Pardon the pun. Can anybody tell me whether or not it's canon for this film, I guess, that there's an infinite amount of spider universes? Is that like the, is that the implication? Or is there a finite amount? Do we know?

I assume it's infinite. I have no idea. I'm not. Because if it's infinite, then there would theoretically have to be the Toby McGuire, you know, if it's truly infinite, then there. would have to exist therefore. Yeah, I think it is... I mean, they included like the Amazing Spider-Man video game even in one part.

Oh, yeah, they did. It's like the part where Uncle Ben died. Yeah, which is funny because, like, you know, I know that game's very corny. Also, like, the little funny joke, like, I... It was so quick that I might be wrong, but I believe they mentioned that Miles's mom used to be a stripper. And I thought that was very funny. but it's like such a quick, it's such a quick line. It's like so quick that like, like, honey, remember when you used to?

And then she's like, hmm. And it's like, oh, she used to be a stripper or whatever. It's like such a little thing. But I'm like, that was great. And I feel like most people like won't even pick up on it. I was just thinking about like the, you know, the Marvel like parents who like will shitting on Guardians of the Galaxy for like the F bomb or whatever. And they probably didn't even pick up on that in like a kid's movie.

That's great Yeah Yeah I mean I guess I could be wrong Because it's so quick It does have like very witty quick dialogue Yeah there's a lot of like quick jokes like that Like there's no way you can pick up on like every joke in the movie It's you know

It's like my favorite comedy's like Scott Polgram or whatever It's just like so much stuff going on in the background You can even like pick up on all of it But when you watch it again I'm sure you could watch this movie like five times And notice something like different every time Yeah I'm probably gonna see it again like soon because I really want to watch it with like a good sound mix

because to me that's like the biggest problem with it was just the sound. Yeah, call the theater, find out. Yeah, yeah. I'll watch it on the 4K Blu-ray. I'll buy it. Yeah, it flows even better a second time. I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure it goes, yeah. Okay, um, did we want to wrap this up

or is there any more things anybody wanted to say about? I will say. The third one, I mean, this is, second one had a lot of expectations going into it. Like, I feel like there was a lot of pressure coming off the first. And it's kind of a miracle that they topped it. And I'm just, like, fascinated at how they're going to top this in the third one. Just strictly visually.

I don't know where else you can go visually because they kind of did, like, everything in this movie. Like, stop motion, I don't know what else they could do. Claymation. Yeah. I mean, they did have that with like the Lego Spider-Man. They did have some. They did have that. That's different.

Animated by a 14-year-old as well. Wallace and Gromit cameo. Even if it was like CG made to look stop motion. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be fun. Yeah, I love that. Lego Spider-Man.

That was so great. I also love they have J.K. Simmons back as Jay Jonah. I love that, like, he is just Jay Jonah in every. Yeah. He's just J. Jonah in every universe. He owns that character. He owns it. Yeah.

I mean, because who else would you want to get? They're going to have to AI. generate him in like 30 years. Yeah, the CGMN, like a, like Rise of Skywalker or whatever. Yeah. All right. I like this movie a lot. It's a high seven or low eight.

Given it a high seven for now. We'll see what it's like on a second watch with better sound, subtitles, 4K Blu-ray, all that jazz. Love it. It'll probably be on my list at 2020. Yeah. I'm with you on the sound. I feel like I'd rate it higher.

if the sound was better. So, I'll probably, I'm going to give it an 8 out of 10 for now. And I think after my second watch, I'll probably raise it to a 9. But I just can't, it's hard for me to like get past that where I can't, I can't hear the movie. Like, I couldn't hear the dialogue that was like important. So, and that really took me out of it. I'm sure it would have been like way more intense, like those action scenes if the

sound wasn't so like quiet. Yeah, that really bothered me, the sound. I wish it was better. I don't know why they were like. It is not what I was expecting Yeah, they're like, oh, we're going to fix it now Like they would say we're going to fix it now After he made like $4 million dollars already

It's like, okay Like everyone saw it, you know Yeah, punish the people who bought tickets to the premiere Everybody who wasn't just hyped You kind of like fucked them over You get the good version Yeah, exactly

Oops, guess you have to see it twice now, sorry They're going to patch it in theaters Like the movie cats I mean it's much better than cats I'm just saying What? Better. Yeah, despite my gushing, I actually think, yeah, four star eight out ten for now, very high.

I just need, I don't know, a bit more time, I need to see it again, and I need to see how they follow it up before I can kind of truly see how it sits in my mind. So that's where I'm sitting for now. I do prefer that first movie. I think it's more complete, despite the little nitpicks here and there. But yeah, it is amazing. Karistan? Oh, yeah. I'm probably at the same, about a four, four out of five, maybe four and a half.

Kind of like Ralph was saying, like, I would, it would be interesting to see it with better sound. I do think, like, it's probably like the best looking animated movie I've seen, maybe ever, but like story wise yeah I would have to see it a second time to kind of see if if it emotionally hits with me a little bit harder I think that's the one thing that that pulls me out a little bit is and that's just kind of what happens with all these a lot of multiverse movies it's not doesn't hit close to home necessarily uh but yeah I I'm at a solid four right now yeah yeah the multiverse thing's really bad when they like like kill characters and bring them back and That's not really something like...

No one's ever really gone. There's like stakes. No, yeah. Yeah, no one dies ever. Even the characters is like, even just the random people that Spider-Man couldn't save, like, they'll probably be back. So just let everybody die. That's such a comic book, like, it's a comic book curse, isn't it?

I do actually have one more Spider-Bist thing. Not really to do with the movie. I really don't think they're going to make this date, this March date. for the next one? No, why would they? Yeah, I think it's everyone needs to get prepared for a delay. I'm five years. A fairly long one.

I assumed that they had already like made it or is like, they're like wrapping up on it. One of them like hadn't even recorded their lines while this one was in theaters. I think there was like a weird news thing. Yeah, yeah, there's a interview for Gwen. Damn. That's a crazy deadline, then. I thought that was one of the first steps. Yeah, yeah, who used to say?

Oops. I hope they don't like crunch and rush it. I hope they don't... Yeah. I hope it doesn't turn into one of those. That would be really funny. It's just like a... Like, the whole movie's like not even in color.

It's just like far like less good animation. I'm sure there's something written, but man, I'm sure it's rough right now. It's all live action. All the characters look like they have buttholes. They have to edit it out. Yeah. the cats, yeah. All right, there was a film recommendation by Cars 10.

Would you like to describe the film? Give a little blurb and then we'll talk about it. Sure thing. But you can give a spoiler-free description of what it is. For sure. I recommended Wendy and Lucy. It's a 2008 film by Kelly Reichart. One of her, I think it's her third film.

Yes. but it is about a woman named Wendy who's traveling to Alaska on her own with her dog, Lucy, and kind of what happens when her car breaks down and she loses her dog. And that's a pretty simple summary, I guess, to start off with. But yeah, it's like a, it's a devastating movie. And I think it's really, I didn't think about this when I recommended it, but it's kind of funny to pair this with such a maximalist film, like, across the Spider-Brus, because this is very stripped down, pretty straightforward.

But I also think pretty moving and rich with its themes. So, I don't know. I'm excited. I also noticed that you guys hadn't talked about any Kelly Barre. I know, Adam, you've seen some of her films. but I was like I want to just bring one of her movies to the podcast because I think she's like one of the best

um attours working today she has a very distinct style and is like she just put out of film this year called showing up and is like still kind of at the top of her game in my opinion so this is one of earlier films and I mean I'm sure people are already aware of her but if you're not I think this is a good starting point

and I want to see I want to see that yeah and she did a first cow first cow's great that made my 2019 list um first cow's funny because that's like her most popular i'm pretty sure just because of the pandemic and it was like kind of conveniently it's got a good title available yeah yeah yeah and it's uh it's 824 also yeah it's 24 yeah um that's but it is a weird place to start with her so if you it is it is a weird place to start with her i agree Yeah. Yeah.

I thought it was great, though. I've seen four of her films, so I guess half. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really connected with certain women. I like that one. Oh, yeah. Or at least most of the film.

Yeah, because that one's funny because it's like three different stories. Yeah, it's like the French dispatch where some of them you're like, I'm into that and the other ones you're not as into. But that one is, I love certain women a lot. Yeah. I find with movies like that if there's one that I don't like. love, I find that usually on the second watch, like, expecting the beats of them and being like, okay, this one's a bit more slower pace and knowing what's coming before and I wind up liking it more. So I'm excited to see that one again. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard about Meeks cut

off. I kind of stayed away from it because I heard it was boring. But now that I like, I like the director. Yeah. That's unfortunately kind of one of the reasons this is a blind spot for because I remember, we must have listened to the same review, Ralph. I remember the scathing review of Meeks Cutoff in the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's funny. I still haven't seen it, yeah. Yeah, it just kind of put me off ever checking out her movies, but yeah, interesting filmography here.

I'm a big fan of Westerns like now. It wasn't back then, but I'd be curious how that kind of flows now, how it comes across. Yeah, who knows? She's a very, like, naturalistic director, very, like, slow-paced and, you know, excellent dialogue like really like strong um like realistic dialogue yeah it's just what I noticed from her movies from the few I've seen I've tried I apparently tried watching meeks cut off a while ago so who knows what age I was I remember not being super into it kind of finding it yeah yeah but I was I also kind of felt that way about

first cow so keep that in mind I guess but But yeah, Wendy and Lucy and certain women connected with me more for sure. Fun fact about Wendy and Lucy, this is, with this film being from 2008, this was right around the time where I was like really kind of discovering and getting into this genre of like sad personal indie character dramas. Just like really low budget movies like this. And so I saw this multiple times when I was younger for sure. when she started humming and that higher pitch part where she's like,

mm-hmm, like that unlocked the memory. I was like, oh yeah, like I must have seen this multiple times when I was younger. So it always had, it's always kind of kept like an interesting

special place in my heart. Even though I'm not like, you know, a huge like, oh, this is the best movie ever sort of thing. Like I have my criticism with it. But it was definitely a part of my like growth into understanding the types of,

the types of things that I like and trying to look for more films that aren't just explicitly advertised to you in large theatrical posters and presentations and all that stuff. Absolutely. I think that she kind of like served the same thing for me in that. I think Oldjoy was the first movie of hers I saw and it did a similar thing where it really put me on to this pace of film and I really fell in love with just. just, yeah, like you were saying, this very naturalistic style of filmmaking and, and the low budget indie stuff, it just, she does it really well.

And yeah. Yeah, what was the budget on this? A dollar. Geez, uh, yeah. One dollar. It's what it looks like. Pocket change. 200,000, 300.

Wow. Yeah, that's great. But that's awesome. Yeah, that's my career. Yeah. It looks great, too. I thought, I love the look of the movie. I love the film.

Look. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Is IMDB down for anybody else, by the way? Yeah, it's down for me. Oh, it is okay. I'm using, yeah.

Yeah, I was going to check out if, uh, how prominent Michelle Williams was before this film. Because this, I think this was one of her breakout roles, really. Yeah, this is like pretty early. Like, this is the first time I noticed her, I guess, but maybe there was more before that. No, I think she had, I'm going to double check, but I think she had. Career before. Dawson's Creek.

Never watched it. Oh, yeah? Yeah. No, she was in a lot of stuff before. Let's see if we got her filmography on Wikipedia here or something. She had, you know, broke back mountain before this. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

That was before this. Okay, never mind. I don't know what I'm talking about. Her in a leading role. Her in a leading role, I guess. Yeah, her in a leading. Right. It's a different kind of status, I guess.

She's great in it. Really strong cast, too. Yeah, when you're like carrying the movie essentially, when the entire thing is like, how is this character feeling and how are they expressing it? Do I see this on screen? So I think that, yeah, this film probably helped to really further legitimize her.

Although, did she get nominated for an Oscar for Brooke back? Someone did. Anyway, fuck it. IMD is down. I can't speak facts anymore. We'll just have to speculate. Damn it. Yeah, we're useless for that IMDB.

What are we going to do? That's all my commentary. I don't say anything real. I just read the IMDB reviews. Right. That's what the podcast is. Yeah. I like the rest of the cast.

I thought everyone, it was basically great. I like the security guard there, played by Wally Dalton. Yeah. Yeah, there were some fun characters. Yeah, and I really like the mechanic, played by Wolf Patton. Oh, he's so good. He's so funny, weirdly. Yeah, my favorite was the the grocery store clerk guy the employee

Oh my god because it just felt like a real character like it felt like yeah Yeah there was a little bit of commentary going on with the Costume design like uh the crucifix he's like oh you have to blah blah blah and I love the the dynamic between him and his boss because his boss was almost like you know he seems like he has a bit of a conscious like seriously like Like she's like a can of dog food, just let her go. And he's like, but no one's above the law. We got to, you know, we got to do this because this is a right thing to do. He's like, I guess.

Yeah. It sets off the whole movie. So it's about setting a good example and then it just, yeah. Ruins her life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What a terrible character.

I mean, a great character, but. Also terrible, yeah. Great character, bad person. Just a piece of shit. Great morally. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I agree with everything he's doing.

But yeah, I mean, what did you guys, Alex and Ralph, how did you guys feel about the film? Yeah, I did enjoy it. Yeah, it's funny, the contrast with this maximalist to minimalist, naturalist type of thing we're going on right now. Very matter of fact, but I do love films that explore these kind of disenfranchised people who've fallen through the cracks and kind of taking. there's no nonsense approach, it's not sensationalised. It is, it's not even really interested in exploring why or how the character has got to where they are particularly. It's more about just them in the now and their daily struggles.

Yeah, there are some films that follow these kind of similar themes with these kind of characters that I got kind of more of a emotional response out of, be it like, I, Daniel Blake, leave no trace, nomad land. But I think, yeah, what you're saying, these characters they are they do feel real and endearing and yeah that mechanic guy you you've seen that guy in real life and the same could be said with a bunch of the characters I was never pulled out uh yeah yeah that's funny because I just like got my car fixed recently it like reminded me like of that guy like the mechanic like it's like literally like that guy like she was talking

about like the thing wrong with her car or whatever like yep that's like how I was talking like she's like no idea what she's talking about and he's like yep your your belt or whatever It's just like that. Yeah, I like how he never makes eye contact with her. And even though you can't see a perspective shot, you can tell just by the way that it's filmed, like, he's looking so low and looking away. He's just like, there's this kind of implicit communication of just like not respecting her.

Yeah. Just like he's like running a business. Like he's not really, you know, he doesn't really care about like her personal life or anything. She's just like, yeah. Yeah. Took your car. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I thought they handled the dog as well, actually. Because again, that could be one of those, you know, I am legend, like, totally manipulating the audience type angle. I was wondering, like, how they were going to handle, like, the emotional stuff with the dog, but I do like the way it concludes with her kind of letting her go. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like the only thing she has, really, is that dog. And so, yeah, like, the whole point of the story is, like, you know. her trying to find the one thing that like, you know, like the only thing she has in her life, basically, like trying to get it back. Yeah.

So it did like work. She's probably got rich parents. She's probably going to go home to them. They've got dead up. A netbo baby. Yeah. I think that's like a very, uh, you were kind of saying this earlier,

Alex. Like they, I feel like they don't say that much about her backstory or like where she's coming from or why she's doing this. She's faking it. I'm pretty. She's, yeah. and I think that like it could you know turn some people off from the movie but I like the fact

that it doesn't open up her to like criticism and that people would be like well she put herself in the situation yeah it's like you can kind of just look at her in this position like for what it has what it is and like I don't know I think that's a it's a pretty interesting choice to not really show any backstory because yeah maybe she does have rich parents and yeah Like, that would just... She's method acting for another role. She's playing Michelle Williams. Yeah, she's researching.

Right, right. Um, but yeah, I really, I think that ending is, um, it's so, it's, I really like it because it's not a fully, it's not a happy ending, but it's not that's, it's the right ending, I would say. Um, yeah. Like, I was like, she definitely, yeah, yeah. I think that's a really, it's just an interesting way to end the film and, um, felt very fitting for what the rest of the film is. Because I feel like a lot of it is, like, she's trying to get other people to, like, help

her out here. And it seems like no one is willing to, like, see her as, like, a person that, like, could use some help. Um, like, the mechanic is a great example. It's like he doesn't make eye contact. He just doesn't even really see her as, is anything else. Um, yeah. And I feel like the ending is her kind of helping the dog out in a way and being like, I should give this dog the better life.

And in doing so, it works in her benefit because she can finally move forward and get out of this town and go where she needs to go. And, you know, you don't know if that ends up being a good thing. I can't imagine things get any easier. But she does, like, get to move forward, which I think is, I don't know, kind of what the film's about at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, very bit's sweet. Yeah, it's just really, really connected to that dialogue. I, you know, I said a lot on this show. Like, it's really hard to write characters and make them feel like they're real people and make it feel realistic. And this film, like, really did that. Like, the dialogue is super strong. And the performances, too, I think help with that. Like, all the acting is great. They really sell that dialogue. And yeah, it's just, it's not very showy. It's very just like, I don't know. I can't point to anything specific, but it's just like how people really talk with that. like, you know, stammering and it's just great. I think that all the acting was great

except one girl close to the beginning where they obviously had a bunch of non-actors around the fire pit and she just the one girl, not a strong opener. I'm sorry. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about. She really does

kind of like, that's not how people, you shouldn't have given her any speaking roles. Like, if you want to have non-actors in this scene, that's fine. She's not the one you should have gotten to say words. Yeah, but I like the guy telling the story about like the whatever bulldozer that they crash into the, like the, I destroy this hundred thousand dollar piece of equipment for seconds. And like Michelle Williams, she just like gets the fuck out of there like in the middle of the story. It's like, let's get out of here.

Like these people are crazy. I love that. That's a great. I enjoyed that part at least. Yeah. Yeah, this premiered at Kahn. Oh, I didn't even know that. Yeah, it did.

And it won the Palm Dog. A real award. It is a real award. Pome Dog. Lucy got the Palm Dog. So if you have a movie, it's a con film festival, put a dog in it, you might win the Palm Dog. There's not a lot of... I did not know that was a...

It's a real award. It's a real award. No, that is a real... I thought you were joking. That's crazy. I know, right? I love that. I love that.

The Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Dog, didn't... Didn't that dog win that year for... You put a dog in a movie. It's going to win the Pop. If it premieres again. Yeah. It was a great dog, so. Speaking of, there was this like weird thing.

Like Ken Loach has won the palm dog multiple times without like, I haven't seen a dog in one of his films. The most recent palm dog he won was like a lifetime achievement award. And it's just like, I don't associate him with dogs. But, so yeah, we'll have to solve that mystery. Maybe Ken Loach identifies as a dog we don't really know. But I would, what's kind of interesting about that is this film does remind me of Ken Louch's films.

You mentioned I, Daniel Blake. And I think the similarities are that it's a really grounded story in terms of just like American poverty and not having the proper support systems. And what I really like about these grounded stories is like, you watch the movie and you're like, damn, this is happening to like thousands of people right now, like these exact same thing. It's not like super sensationalized. It's not like so overdramatic. Like the craziest fucking thing happens and then blah, blah, blah, blah. Although guns aren't out of the equation of America either.

But, you know, just like being trapped in poverty and not having like a proper way out of it and trying your best, but still the system is kind of just preventing you from being able to climb out of that fucking pit. You know, there's poor taxes essentially. Like it's more expensive. to be poor. Like, it's fucked. And so it always makes me a bit, like, kind of upset.

And it's a little bleak, I guess, overall seeing a film like this or a lot of Ken Loach movies where it's just like, damn, like, people are getting screwed. And it's getting worse in a lot of ways. I mean, like, I also think about Sean Baker a lot when I watch this because I feel like a lot of his films are about the same thing. And that's even bleaker to think about it. because his are more, a little bit more modern, and it's just crazy how, yeah,

nothing has really changed since this. But yeah, I don't know. It's, I agree, I don't think, I always thought of this as like a really sad movie, but on rewatch, I was like, it's just a upsetting, kind of frustrating movie. It makes me angrier than it does the other way. So, I don't know.

It's just a frustrating watch. Yeah. But in a good way. Yes, the whole point is. Yeah. shining a light on these on these people that I don't know a lot of people like have really strange opinions about like homeless people and yeah like a real cruelty um yeah but which is expressed through the film with some of these characters and how they

treat her um and yeah yeah it is a sad stay yeah there's a real uh there's a real pervasive fuck you got mine attitude in the states especially everybody's just kind of trying to scam someone else like every ad on TV is like a scam right everybody's just I mean it's difficult when there's when you kind of get overwhelmed when there's that many people that are in poverty uneducated and just like it creates like such a huge problem to try to solve that a lot of people do just get kind of jaded and tell themselves like yeah well you know fuck it what can you do and then the problem gets worse and then it's like okay well you know your rich neighborhood's not

going to be safe forever there's gonna be you're gonna see the homeless crisis soon if you're not seeing it right now it's not just gonna be in the fucking downtown spots with a good food right yeah yeah there's that's that's that's like drive around through impoverished places yeah US just kind of showing off like how bad it is and some it's quite shocking we have homeless problem here but like the scale of it in America is quite distressing. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that's like one of the reasons I left L.A. It's like the homeless problem there is really bad. And, you know, it's bad in New York too, but it's like really bad in L.A.

It's like homeless camps like under the highway and on the beach and like, it's like, yeah. It's everywhere. It's pretty bad. Yeah. There's like serious problems that need to be addressed. And then you go like down the block and into Beverly Hills and there's like none of that.

It's like actually insane. Like, like there's like a cut. off point. Like, you see it. There's like homeless people and then not nothing like for like blocks because it's like, that's where all the rich people with and they probably have like security and whatever, you know, it's like, yeah, exactly. Shoo, shoe. Such a disconnect. Yeah. I think it's very intentional. Yeah. That, I don't know. The, a lot of the, the things that would make her life easier in the film and that do make her life easier aren't like these crazy solutions and like a

shit ton of like systematic or um systemic change yes uh systemic change it's like the guy at the end literally gives her like six bucks and it's like enough money to get her like breakfast and like yeah get to see the dog um and yeah i don't know it's just i like the fact that a lot of um i don't know the things that make her life easier aren't these like bigger things it's just simple kindness that Yeah. It's hard to find, I guess. That's why I really like the security guard character, because it, like, it's, like, because he could be seen as, like, kind of an authority figure of sorts because he's, like, a security guard, but he's, like, very sympathetic to our situation, tries to help her out,

like, as much as he can. Right, yeah. And that's, like, you know, it's, like, showing the other side of it, too. It wasn't so, like, one-sided, like, oh, look, all these, like, authority figures, like, bring him down. Like, he did actually have, like, some humanity in him. And it's, like, yeah, he's just a guy. He's just a person. know he's doing the best he can given the situation got that great line um can't get an address

without an address a job without a job it's all fixed yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that's bleak yeah yeah that's what he can true oops big oops hmm hmm I thought I had another thing to say but I forgot about it I'm sorry um I'm curious Adam you uh you said you have some criticisms I I am curious, like, what some of the... I mean, well, just kind of like that one girl at the beginning is a really big one. Anything that, like, takes me out of it and reminds me that it's a movie. There's also kind of a funny line. She was like, my dog's like, what she say?

Like, 34 pounds. And it's like, okay, well, like, okay, in the script, the dog was starving, but you didn't want to starve a real dog. The dog doesn't... Like, you can't see the dog's, like, really. It's like, okay, maybe change the line. or get a smaller dog, you know, just kind of like, you know. Yeah, it's a fun fact that, I mean, I don't know if you guys already knew,

but this is like Kelly Rockhart's actual dog. Oh, nice. And I do think it's funny that, like, she'll, like, go to set and, like, shoot this, like, devastating movie trying to find the dog and gets to, like, go home. And it's just happy and healthy, has no idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I'll also say When she gets reunited with the dog That is a very toned down reaction from the dog I think we've all seen enough YouTube videos of like Yeah anybody who's like Had a friend that's owned a dog or whatever If you leave for like an hour It'll be freaking out when you come back

Yeah Like Lucy Lucy's gone for like a few days And the dog's like oh I don't know It depends It depends on the dog I know, it depends on the dog.

Some dogs have more. Some dogs have autism. Like, I just got back from vacation and I went to go see my dog. He was very like, you know, he wasn't like jumping all over me. He was like, you know, very like downplayed. Maybe he just didn't miss me, which is fun. No, I think he missed me. He's just very downplayed, you know, like he just walked up to me and lit me.

Yeah. He's got like arthritis too. So maybe like didn't want to jump up or whatever. That's excellent. Poor guy. Yeah. But, you know, that didn't really take me out of it. Yeah, the dog was cute.

I like any movie with a dog. You know, like, you don't even have to get me. Any movie with a dog? You don't have to get me to, like, care about a dog. It's just like a dog. Airbud. Yeah. Even Airbud.

Terminator 2. Go to receive it, yeah. Yeah. Cats. I don't think there's a dog in that one. There's not a dog in cats. That was the problem. If they put a dog in, it would have been great.

Yeah. Yeah, that would have fixed it. Yeah, so I guess it's not necessarily like, oh, yeah, these things that are like way wrong with the film, but it's what it needs to be, but what it needs to be, what it feels it needs to be isn't necessarily what I want the most out of the film. Totally. It is, you know, very reserved and, like, held back, but to the point for me personally, where it's, like, a little teetering it on the edge of, like, kind of repetitive.

where I might want like a little bit more out of that. Like I can I can soak in a lot about, you know, what the movie is saying and the characters and the interactions and, you know, these little details about, you know, especially what she winds up doing to find her dog. I like that she's like tying her clothes everywhere and stuff like that. I'm like, yeah, I can see someone getting really desperate in doing that. There's some great scenes in here.

But at the end of the day, it's not like, it's not, it doesn't leave a whole lot in my memory as like, you know, this great, awesome movie that I really want to go back and discover. It more or less just kind of reminds me of like a time period in my life when I was discovering the movie. And I have a bit of nostalgia for that, I guess. Totally. Yeah.

I could see that. It is a thing of like, I think with her movies, she's very consistent. And in that way, it's like they either do it for you or they don't. And everyone kind of has their own film of hers that they like personally connect to. And, yeah, I can see, personally, I'm like, I as like a dog guy, I'm just very, very, very sensitive to this kind of story. But, yeah, it's great. Who doesn't love dogs?

Who doesn't? Cats. Yeah, that's part of why they made the movie. It's like, oh, it's about a dog. People who love this dog. Exactly. Yeah, but, you know, it's a good movie, too, obviously. People with allergies.

going on. Right. People are allergic to dogs. I guess, yeah, I guess this people who are allergic to dogs. You'd be allergic to fur. You can get hypoallergenic dogs if you want. Yeah, yeah, I guess that's possible. There's some dogs who don't have fur.

They have, like, hair. Yeah. I don't know. Old English sheep dogs. Good movie. Yeah, I will say in the UK, it was quite difficult to get my hands on. Oh, yeah. Oh, shit.

Really? Yeah. Because I used a VPN to try and buy it through, like, Amazon like America That's interesting Because here it's like Free on like multiple platforms

You need a VPN to access US Amazon since when What are you talking about? You just changed the URL It's just dot com instead of that CEO.uk Yeah I guess I didn't need to use a VPN I was trying to buy it through there

See I didn't even know that It just wouldn't let me Because it's just not available On any platform here Yeah That's so strange. There is a region free Blu-ray by oscilloscope laboratories. Right.

Yeah, yeah. But I found it, like, right on Tooby. Like, in the U.S., it's free on, like, multiple platforms. Like, not just one. You can go, like, five different... Yeah, Peacock and, like, Tooby and... Watch it on the cock. Yeah, P-cock.

It's a great name for a service. Yeah, we made fun of that before. It's like, why would you name your... Yeah, name it like Piscock. If every peacock ad just had Karsten saying in that exact same way, watch it on the cock, I think it would take off. It's so much more successful. Yeah, I think I'd sign up. Spokesman for peacock.

I'm a cock spokesman. All right, let's give our ratings. Yeah, very nostalgic movie for it. Me, I connected with it. Maybe not, like, to an insane degree. I give it a high six low seven. Really enjoyable. Lots to appreciate.

Hell yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty much with you a kind of low seven for me, three and a half style. Nice. Yeah, everything you guys were saying, I liked the naturalistic style. Yeah, reminding me of this

Daniel Blake kind of thing. It doesn't quite hit me as hard as some of these contemporaries, but yeah, everything about it was pretty solid, consistent. And I like the way you phrased it, being the right way to end that story, the right length, the right pace. It's only an hour, 20 minutes.

Yeah. Great moments, great performances. Yeah, right. It's nice and short, yeah. Yeah, I'd go eight out of ten on it or a four star. I really enjoyed it. I want to check out more from Kelly Reichard because I like her movies. I want to see showing up soon.

I've heard it was good. Yeah, so I'll check that one out. Is that the new one? Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Just came. Also starring Michelle Williams, coincidentally.

And Andre 3,000. Oh, shit. That's cool. Yeah. I might, uh, I might, uh, I might, uh, I might recommend like Meeke's cut off one day just to like, because I, you know, I don't know if it's good. Yeah, I'm very curious. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm kind of curious about it now. I haven't seen it. Mm-hmm. Because, yeah, Alex and I saw, like, the scathing review of it, like, years ago. Yeah. We're probably thinking of the same review. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm giving it the, uh, the full five, big fan of this movie. one of my crazy yeah uh love it i also but i will say this was my second time watching it and uh it's it's one of those movies where i'm like i really don't want to watch it again because it's not a fun time and yeah yeah still still love it still love it yeah sweet thank you so much for the recommendation i was very happy to revisit it hell yeah and i have a blu-ray amazing instead of a burned DVD yeah i watched it with my dog it's really funny

I had so many burn DVDs from like I would just rent movies and then like copy them or whatever that was however old and then I had so many of them that I was like I I was getting pretty fucking pro at copying the font

with my permanent marker on my copy so that it looked like a really oh wow it wasn't just like oh shitty writing like you could flip through the binder and know what movie it is just based on like the font as you're like quickly. That's cool.

Yeah. Yeah. I was now, yeah, now I just buy Blu-ray as a bit. Your, uh, your Blu-ray collection is insane. I just got to say. I, it's, when it shows up in my, like, recommended and it's like, it's, it says, like, my Blu-ray collection and it's like an eight-hour long video. I'm like, Jesus.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was years ago. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Got an update.

I found a, uh, 4K Blu-ray of the film Waves. And it's like this big vinyl-sized thing that you can only get from Japan. Oh my God. That's great. I will say like while we're on the topic, just really quick. I mean, I've always appreciated Blu-Rays, but I'm like, especially with like streaming and like random movies just getting taken off of streaming services. I'm like, I really do now appreciate Blu-Rays.

Physical media, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you own the movie. It's like it's not going anywhere. The quality's better too. Exactly. fucking Disney Disney updated what movie did they

fucking update? Oh, the French connection to get rid of I think the N word and since they own the rights to it they applied the update and it even affected the criterion channel version so like there's just a chunk of the movie missing that didn't happen to the Blu-ray though

no yeah yeah anyway best quality. All right question time Okay, let's see some questions from the Sardonicast community. If you want to leave your own questions, head over to the suggestion thread over on the subreddit our slash Sardonicast, just like us slash Jarmedia did.

Seeing as both Ralph and Kasten are film school graduates, how much better do you think your opinions are than Adam and Alex? Oh yeah, they don't know anything. These guys are dumb shit. This is my show. What if you combined Alex and mine's opinion as one person? Would that be enough? No, not good enough. There's not enough

Not educated enough Yeah It doesn't really If anything that stuff Probably ruins you If anything it makes you Less informed Because she meets so many

Fucking douchebags That are like Oh well This movie I've seen this many movies What do you know It's like this lot of that In film school

It's like shut the fuck up There's so many people That go into school Only to get the degree Not because they actually want to learn something, but because they want to tell people what they already know is, is, like, fact now because they have a degree. Like, so many people go into, like, psychology.

They're like, I think I know a lot about other people. I just want to be able to say I have the degree. Obviously, not everybody, you know, a lot of people are there to learn and to better themselves. Yeah, that's definitely a type of person. Yeah. That's a good thing about going to, like, film school. You meet some people when they're, like, completely, like, delusional. You're like, wow, it, like, humbles you a little.

Like, oh, wow. I'm not. too this. This guy's got no chance. He just lives in his own fucking fairyland or whatever. It's like, well, okay. You're just a fucking idiot. The most successful graduates will be making commercials.

Yeah. Unless you're really lucky. I don't know. I know it's cliche, but I feel like I don't. I've learned more from like, honestly, like online stuff. Like, I don't know. Just finding stuff myself than I did in film. Film school is just kind of there to, like, give you the tools and the resources and...

Connections. Yeah, connections. It's like... Yeah, find like-minded people. Right. So to answer the question, no, we... I can't say we do. I don't know if we know that much more.

I also, you know, depending on what film school you go to, I like the idea of sort of being, you know, some of the projects are like, make a movie in, like, 48 hours. I think that's a very useful skill set and a useful... sort of like disciplinary thing to do is like add more more restrictions to what you're doing you have to produce it by a certain date like that's that's very useful uh just knowledge building and just uh hands on experience yeah a lot of student films like just don't even get done because they don't have like a time frame right that that's perfect that's yeah i totally agree that's how i made like some of my best stuff i think was through those like film festivals

Yeah Yeah Yeah I think that's another nice thing about I realize like now that I'm out of film school That it's like it's harder to You know get the resources to make something Yeah right In film school you kind of have the safety net where it's like

You can just try things out And if it sucks That's what it's there for And you also have to like Pay people or at least like take time out of their lives So you know you can't like you can't really fuck around Like once you're out at school like that Yeah

Right Because it's time and money you're wasting then yeah is when you're a student it's like oh whatever you live in a dorm you all live in a dorm like you don't have to worry about anything like you know like it's not like it's not like real life you know yep yeah cool okay and bot has this to say since i heard that carston's a big fan of primary colors in movies i simply wanted to ask what your guys is favorite uses of color or color palettes in films are oh i was just talking about ron recently that movie's great with the color.

Yeah. It's a great answer. All the suns are like different color. Like the good sun is blue and the bad sun's like red and one of the middle is dressed in yellow. It's like so perfect like the color. And you think about like Hurosawa, right? Like most of his career is making black and white movies and the fact that he like mastered color like that.

It's like super impressive. That's like really impressive. It's like a whole other medium basically. That's how I felt when I watched that movie for the first time was like it feels like he just like unlocked a new power or something. Yeah, right. Like, seeing his movies in color, I'm like, Jesus Christ, of course, it's, like, amazing. Because he just understands lighting and I feel like the color theory so strongly that obviously it's, yeah, it's great.

Yeah, and using it to, like, define characters and like, you know, like for the story, too. It sounds just, oh, it looks pretty. Like, you, it's like very clear visual meaning to like every color. And it's like, oh, it's beautiful. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. A single man with Colin Firth.

Directed by Mr. Ford. What is his name? Todd Ford. What is this? I don't know. Harrison Ford. The guy, the clothing company guy. Yeah, Tom Ford.

Yeah, Tom Ford. Thank you. Yeah, there's really interesting parts of that movie where it's like on his, depending on his mood, like, things will get undersaturated or oversaturated. And it's like, it's a subtle enough shift that there's going to be tons of people that watch the movie without even noticing that that's happening. But to people who are really paying attention that it's like, okay. yeah, this is very clearly trying to communicate something about the character's internal thought processes.

I love, I don't care if anybody shits on me for this. I love Sin City. I have a positive memory of that movie in my mind. Who knows, maybe I'll rewatch it as an adult and hate it, but there's stuff about it that really has stuck with me forever and its use of color and lack thereof and, you know, the yellow and the red just selectively appearing. And then there's so many films in like ads even that have tried to replicate that just because it was like a really cool idea doing selective color. Yeah. It's striking. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I love that movie too.

Yeah. I'd have to shout out a film I probably think about once a day. By being stalker. I love the movie. Yeah. I love the imagery of that movie. They've washed out like browns, greens and blues. I found this like a website that

It sells these like kind of posters that It like takes every frame of the movie It puts them in like a row I know you're talking about yeah Yeah you've seen these kind of cool I've seen those yeah that's awesome Yeah put it in my bathroom or something Yeah that's a big stand up for me

Wait let me look that up I can't remember what it's called I should have I should have noted it down before I should know it too I've seen those before yeah I've seen it for Fincher movies Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Like the average color of the movie. Or the color time. Yeah. That's basically like what you got. Yeah. I would say the umbrellas of Sherborg or the young girl, both that and young girls of Rochefort, I want to say. Two Jacques de Me movies that like, if you have like heavily inspired La La Land and you can tell, it's like very colorful, very popy and just deliberate. Oh my God, they're just beautiful.

They're from like the 60s, but they stand out. Like, they're still more colorful and interesting than most movies today. I have yet to see a Jacques Demi. I know it's on my... Oh, they're so good. There's a lot of French new wave that I haven't gotten into yet. Yeah, Alex, you just sent it. Yeah, the color palette thing.

Yeah, that's sick. Yeah, that's sick. Look at the La La Land one. It's like fucking crazy. It's like all kinds of different colors. It's like green and blue. Yeah. Yeah, I love that.

Also, Mishima, Life in Four chapters. That, the Paul Schrader movie. Just the most insane production design. And it's like otherworldly. But, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That one was crazy. I saw that pretty recently.

I can't watch list anything. IMDBs down. I think that's already in a lot. Gotta get a letterboxed. Yeah. That's a really good movie. Yeah, I love that movie. Okay.

Klopfish has this to say. What do you think about the IMAX debacle between Tom Cruise losing IMAX screens for MI Dead Reckoning, part one, one week after its release to Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer? Change the date. If it's that important, change the movie release. Yeah. Yeah, they should push the date up. Absolutely.

If you don't want to compete with, like, the most hyped movie of the year, then don't put your movie in the years the same time. Right. Yeah. Like, what do you expect? It's fucking Christopher Nolan, dude. Like, what do you expect? It's kind of his brand, yeah. Yeah, right.

It's not going to compromise, no. Mm-hmm. Yeah, they should definitely move it up to, like, the 4th of July. Because I don't think there's much coming out, like, early July. I mean, I could be wrong. No. It's, like, so crowded because, yeah, it's like there's that Mission Impossible movie, Opinheimer and Barbie, all in, like, one weekend.

I'm like, why don't we just... Push it up. All there is after that is, like, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Like... Just spread it out of it Yeah, I would say like push it up to like the first week of July Because if you push it back too much Then it won't make as much money

Because like the summer's over Everyone's going back to school People are busy in like August or whatever But if you push it up like early July I think it would work fine That might be like I guess they're worried Like people won't go see it because it's too soon

But yeah they're kind of in a bad spot Because like June is fucking packed with movies There's like a ton of movies out right now So it can't come out like now There's like little mermaid and Flash And Spider-Man and like There's like transformers. So like, yeah, I think early July would work fine for it if it was like my decision.

But yeah, like after Oppenheimer, I mean, Oppenheimer is going to be, I think that's going to be like one of the most successful movies of the year, even more so the Mission of Possible. Even if it's bad, it'll be. I think it'll be fine. But, you know, it's like how many times can it be Tom Cruise's summer, you know? Like, it was the summer last year with a top gun. Right, right. And like, you know, Mission Impossible, they're good. It's like, I don't know if they're gonna top fallout.

And also, it's like, I'm getting kind of sick of like the Tom Cruise, like, stunt every movie. Like, oh, he looks at it like, he tries to kill himself this way in this movie. And he jumps off a cliff. Is that why it's a two-part thing? Because it's like the last one they can get out of him. And it's like, okay, we can maybe get two more, make it two parts. Yeah.

It's like, it's final. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Maybe they could push it back a little more to like the fall or, like, you know, around Christmas time. That could work for it too. But yeah, I just don't think it's a good idea.

I don't think people are as hyped for it as he thinks they are. Because, like, I feel like with Top Gun 2, something refreshing about that movie is it wasn't like sold on like the stunts or whatever. It was just like a good movie. Like the stunts are great, but it's not like, oh, look, Tom Cruise is going to jump off a cliff again? You know, it's just, I feel like people are kind of sick of that at this point. It's like, how many times are you going to sell the movie with like some amazing stunt,

you know? It's like kind of old. I don't know. Yeah, we'll see how it comes together. Maybe that's just me. Yeah. It's an interesting. situation that you know it reminds me like when Tarantino was like upset with like the

hateful eight I think it was like it wasn't hateful eight yeah so Disney wasn't it was beefing yeah yeah with Star Wars that was so yeah yeah I mean that one there's a little more like of a debate I guess like you know an independent artist versus like a big studio like with a temple like Star Wars movie but this is like you know it's like Mission Impossible six part one or whatever. It's like, there's only so much, like, I could shed it tear for him, you know. I'm sure it'll be a fine movie. I just don't think it's going to, like, blow our socks off, like, top gun.

He still has part two anyway. Yeah. I mean. And I'm sure, like, people have seen it already, like, Mission Impossible. They probably know if it's, like, better than Oppenheimer or not, like, certainly. You know, in that circle, they've probably seen both those movies, like, the theater curators or whatever. Yeah.

They probably figured, like, yeah, Oppenheimer seems like more of a safe bet. Yeah, which I'm sure pissed him off. I mean, Nolan, too, he's like one of the biggest proponents of, like, IMAX film. Like, he's just been pioneering that shit for like a decade, you know. He's like the top dog there. So, yeah, you can't really compete with him. Yeah. In terms of that stuff.

Yeah. I have to pee real quick. I'll be back. I had some Red Bull. I'm sorry. I'll be all right. Red Bull. I've been drinking some H-2O.

Good old, the way of water. when water are making me sad I've seen about these avatar delays oh yeah yeah I haven't it's gonna be like 2030 by the time it's gonna be another 12 years

fuck yeah wait if it's gonna be lava navvy next then it'll be yeah what other environments are there I'm sure it'll be cool does it does it no that's Dean I guess he's 68 years old I'm just like

he's still got so much in him yeah it's yeah it's crazy respect it but i mean i love that new one i thought the new one was great i really enjoyed it it's all i was surprised yeah i wasn't like a big avatar head so i like you know caught up and i was like lukewarm about the first one but then again i like wasn't there i'm back hello you know yeah sure at the time like the first avatar was like amazing yeah yeah There was actually more of a response to that one probably than this new one, but this new one still did great. I love the new one. It's on Disney Plus now. Yeah, so I'm probably watched that again.

Another question? I'm actually going to hijack this because I want to bring up something. Many of you guys see in the Idol? Not yet, but I hear its reception is kind of funny. I've seen some of it. So I'm actually excited. I've seen the first two episodes. Have you seen the, how many episodes have you seen, Kasten?

I saw one episode and I fell asleep. I've seen, yeah, the first two. I watched the second one yesterday. It was so, I don't know. Man. It's entertaining. But it's kind of like... So I watching a car crash, yeah.

Right. It's like Euphoria season two where I'm like, this is entertaining for now, and it's going to get to a point where it just gets so tedious and... Yeah. I like, I don't know how much more I have than me. You know, that scene in Euphoria Season 2 where that character is like singing. to the main character. It's like the most excruciating, like,

kind of cringy. It's like a six minute song, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What were they thinking? It's kind of like, it feels like that scene, but expanded and like way more sexualized and crazy. It's so...

Maybe I'll do a watch-along. Oh, it'd be a great watch-along. Good. Yeah. All right, let's do it. But I, uh, the thing about this show is that they play this one pop song that I'm, you know what I'm talking about.

They play it, they've played it like 20 times already. And it's like gotten to a point where it is an earworm. And I like, I've had it stuck in my head for like two days. And it makes me so upset because I have to like keep thinking about the show. Because it's like in my head. It's on Spotify. Yeah, it's on Spotify.

Yeah. So I was like, are they like trying to push this or something? Are they trying to get this on TikTok or like what is the thinking with this? Yeah. Yeah, why not? Yeah. The big deal about it was like there's like a lot of like nudity or like sexual content in it that's like makes people go or like Like when it premiered a con, people were like, oh, it's so, like, I don't know, gratuitous or whatever.

I'm just, like, so tired of, like, that marketing gimmick or whatever. It's just, like, I don't care. Like, I don't think anyone cares if there's, like, nudity in a fucking show or not, you know? It's like, it's not a big deal. I, it's, they keep saying that, like, oh, we're taking it too far. And that's, it's, like, revolutionary because of that. And it's like, the sex stuff isn't taking it too far. I don't think so, yeah.

It's just, like, cringy. Right, right. comfortable. Yeah, it's just embarrassingly like performed. Yeah. It's two actors who like don't really have any chemistry and don't really have any screen presents. No. Yeah.

It's like hilarious in the in the show. Yeah, I've seen some of the dialogue like on our Reddit, like people clowning on the dialogue and it's like oh yeah, like spread your ass out. It's like so bad. It's like so bad. I'm like this is fucking terrible. Like it's supposed to be like. Right. It's like oh like we're really pushing the edge here.

But it's like so fucking like tame. And it's like, okay. Okay, Lily Rose Depp is like Johnny Depp's daughter. I was like, all right. Like, okay. It's just like, what's the big fucking deal? Like, you know, that's how I feel about the whole thing. Like everyone's, it's been so hyped up because of like all this like explicit stuff.

But there's like nothing in the show that I saw that was like very like pushing the boundaries. No, it's not even that explicit. It's just like weird. Yeah, so on the nose and shallow. Yeah. Yeah. I really like the, uh, the score. is pretty good.

That's the best thing I can say is that I think the, not the pop songs, but like the actual score for the show is like, it's decent. Yeah, yeah. Well, and the thing with Euphoria that kind of carried me for was like, there's a lot of like kind of energetic camera work and production. Yeah. Kind of fun to follow. There's really none of that so far.

It's kind of, it's like glacial, the race of the show. Yeah. Nothing has happened in the two hours that it's a great point. Yeah. Yeah. But apparently it's doing very well as far as viewers. Yeah. Oh,

yeah. Well, I'm sure people are tuning in because of like all the controversy around it. Like, oh, it's so explicit. It's like tons is like nudity and sex. And it's like, no, not really. Like, I just turned 18. It's just. Yeah, exactly.

It's like people looking for fat material or whatever. They have the built in audience of the weekend, obviously. And I think he was in like the writer's room and contributed to a lot of it. And then they are as deaf apparently has a big audience. Someone from like a. K-pop band is in it too, which I think brings in a huge audience just for her. She's barely in it. Yeah, people are upset at her on TikTok or something.

Oh, really? I don't know. Everyone's upset by everything. I don't even know it's real. Yeah. I hope it doesn't, like, hurt other shows that are like this, like shows about, like, pop stars or shows that are, like, explicit, like, oh, that's, like, trash content. Now, I think the show is just boring.

You know, like, I don't think anything hurts the show. Yeah, it's just badly written show. I think that's really the biggest takeaway. Like, we should take from it. Not like, oh, we can't have, like, explicit stuff in movies anymore because, like, the idol. Like, it's just, like, a boring kind of show. Like, it's just not well thought out, really. Because, yeah, I don't really care about that stuff.

It's just, like, yeah, it's, like, kind of a dull show, ultimately. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I probably hate watch it to the end. Yeah. I'm going to finish the whole thing, that said. Can't wait to see what happens next week. Yeah.

Yep. Okay. Lily of the Valley has this to say. As both CGI and AI get more advanced, do you think film studios will have less of a justification to continue using young child actors in film roles? How do you feel about that? I feel like we're about 30 years too early for this question.

Yeah, that's kind of... It's not... The Twilight Baby is pretty convincing. Oh, God. I mean, yeah, I don't know. At that point, will they even be animating it, or will AI be animating it? You know? Why even the adult actors at that point?

Just, yeah, have everyone be a... Everyone be boss baby. This bad boss baby in the place of every... Everyone's out of Baldwin. Of every CG kid characters. Just put Boss Baby there. They're like, oh, it's Boss Baby. Yeah, I don't know.

Maybe. What are you asking me? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Just stop creating child characters, done. Children don't exist in fiction. Like GTA 5, you know? There's no kids. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. You didn't like young Anakin and Phantom Menace? I just rewatch that one recently. Nice. Man, that acting is like... Yeah, ruined his life too. You spend a lot of time rewerewerewere. watching things that aren't very good.

Yeah, yeah, I do. Hey, I'm a big Star Wars fan. I love that shit. I'll, you know, I've seen those movies tons of times. Yeah, I don't know. Probably. That's my answer. Probably.

Yes. Yeah. Young Sheldon. I don't know. Young Sheldon, CGI. Yeah, replace it with boss. All I. AI.

Yeah. Midlife rapper has this to say. Are there any movies you've thought about recommending but actually decided again. It's fainted it because you didn't think it would be a good idea to have your community watch it No, not really I've never felt that way how about you guys? There's only one that really comes to my head But I never actually checked out and I've never seen clips from it

It's this weird like animated movie where the dead go to die. You've probably heard of it It's like this infamous this infamously like edgy or something I might have to do more research, but yeah, I don't know. I'd have to check it out in better detail. Okay, yeah, I don't know. I've heard of it, but I don't know. There's nothing that I wouldn't recommend because it's like too edgy, you know? I wouldn't I wouldn't not recommend something because of like the content.

I'm not gonna recommend a porn film, let's just say that. an actual port because those are technically films but it's not necessarily like oh like no one should ever watch porn it's it just wouldn't make for a good discussion like when I don't recommend something it's because I don't think that it would make for a good discussion

you know everybody should probably watch Dear Zachary like but what are we going to talk about like if you haven't seen it I'm not going to spoil anything but like it's a sad movie it's a really sad movie it's a documentary though it's like how much discussion are we going to get out of it other than just saying like wow this was fucking bleak.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I checked that out. Yeah,

you're definitely right. But yeah, no, I think the conversation is where it's at. Like I saw, um, and when I recommended

happiness when we had, uh, went to the views on. I saw him tweeting about that the other day because the movie keeps appearing on, yeah, on Twitter and like people are finding out it exists and finding out what the movie's about.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just a movie. I don't get like the... Yeah. The reaction there. I don't get it. I think most people who freak out about like explicit content are children and we need to find some way of distinguishing child accounts on the internet from adult accounts.

I would be in favor of just banning children from the internet. But if we're in its current state, we should at least have some sort of, I don't know, arm-bans. or something so we know something on their profile just so we know like not to take it as a serious opinion and get ourselves fucking dived up about it you know like I feel I feel like that's a lot of negative discourse is not realizing that you're arguing with an actual child and that it's not a real opinion yeah yeah that's pointless engaging yeah yeah it's pretty funny you brought that up yeah like the tweet he made yeah yeah Yeah, it's like, yeah, like, who cares?

If I see, like, a ridiculous reply, I'll check the, the bio and it's like 14. And I'm like, okay, all right. This is the actual child. Yeah, this is the big boys table. We talk about big boy movies. You talk about the idol over here. Yeah. We're not afraid of like, yeah.

I mean, we're not even that bad with that stuff. I mean, when was that episode? There was like the third episode we did, right? It's like one of the first 10. It's like, all right. dude take it easy again this is a big boys table no children allowed

I'm a big kid now actually yeah all right one more question yeah okay let me end on this one from animus random recently the YouTuber some ordinary gamers talked about the new Cleopatra

and lamented that there are absolutely no docudramas with any good acting to any of you have any dokey dramas that you consider to have fantastic acting. Define docudrama. Are we just talking like biopics? Documentaries with like, yeah, fictional like... fictionalies documentaries? I guess like Captain Phillips. Like Tower. Oh yeah, tower was good. Yeah. The animation is good. Tower is incredible. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great one. As far as good performances, Fruitfield Station has quite a good lead performance there

Yeah, I guess if you count that as a docu drama Does flea count? Is that like a full documentary? I think all of the audio is just The narration is from an interview Right, okay, yeah But I don't know if they did extra voice acting On top of that

Right, right But I guess maybe we should try to talk about ones that aren't voice acted because it's always a bit, you can sweeten those. You can sweeten those performances a bit with the animation. Yeah, well, according to Google, the definition is just a fictional movie or TV show that's closely based on a true story can be called a docudrama. Okay. I'm sure, like, you know, United 93 has, like, elements of, like, docudrama in it.

I'd say that's a really good one. Yeah. Because it's apparently super accurate. Like, they even cast people who, like, look like people who were, like, there, you know? And like they only took facts. Like they only took, you know, recordings from the black box and like stuff like that. Like there's nothing really fictionalized in it other than the fact that it's, you know, made like, you know, it's filmed. You know, it's not really there.

There's something like on the tip of my tongue. I feel like I saw something at a film festival in the past like two years that fits this description that I talked about. But I guess I'm never going to fucking remember. So I'll remember it in a week or something. I don't know. Maybe Zola? Is that what you're thinking of? Zola is kind of like that.

No, it was not Zola. It was something that was like actual documentary with like, recreated parts. Yeah, to me, that's like a docudrama, like Tower. Like, that's like my definition of a docu drama. Yeah. So what was the, what was the show he was talking about specifically?

Does it fit that definition? Uh, this Cleopatra, um, It's a movie, I think. Yeah, I haven't had too much about it. There's a little drama about it or something because of the costume. Jada Pinkin Plinkett Smith. That sounds right. Blanket Smith.

Lock like my ex-wife. Documentary series. Okay, yeah, I see what's going on. So this is kind of a docu-drama. It looks like they're interviewing people about the figure. So, I mean, yeah, I would argue that there's probably, a propensity towards less emphasis on the actual filmmaking qualities when you're doing it in part documentary style compared to something that's just like a biopic, biopic, however you want to call it. But I would never go as far as to say something absolutist, like there's never any good performance, because I'm sure we can think of some at some point.

And those animators are a great movie. you know, how are we to judge the performance of a voice acting? Fantastic. I don't know. Yeah, right. Exactly. It's animated. Yeah.

I'm sure there's some. I feel like that's a good answer. We answered it well enough. We covered like the broad definition of it. A couple of good movies in there. All right. We've got a film recommendation for the next episode. And we have decided this is a group.

recommendation. All three of us just were like, yeah, this is what we should be talking about. We're doing Birdman because we will all be watching the Flash. So we decided we would like to talk about Birdman in the same episode. No 4K, unfortunately, whatever. But who knows if that's ever going to happen? Probably at some point. But yeah, I'm excited to revisit it. It feels like it's time anyway.

So it's time. It's time. So if you don't want to be spoiled for Birdman 2014, our third Iniaritu recommendation, I think. Yeah, I think you're right. Morseparos, Revenant, yeah. Yeah. Then watch it before the next episode comes out. These episodes come out every two weeks.

You can listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com. Sign up for premium. It's only $2 a month. Also, patreon.com slash sardonicast. we'll get you the same thing. Listen to it early, support the show. Keep us from being Michelle Williams and Wendy and Lucy. We're just teetering on that edge right now.

I don't know if... Yeah, I'll be like Wendy and Lucy with my dog out there. Yeah, so you've got to support the show. Ralph's going to have to get rid of his dog. Yeah, I'm going to have to steal dog food. Yeah. And a new dog. Yeah.

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Karsten, would you like to plug anything Where can people find you? You can find me at Karsten Runkwist On YouTube, self-titled How the fuck do you spell that? It's a K-A-R-S-T-E-N And RunQuist No D

Some people think it's run-quist but it's just run and then quist. How do you spell that? R-U-N-Q-U-S-D. Thank you. And then, yeah, that's it. I don't need anybody following the out-letter box, to be honest. That's not a flex.

Yeah, fuck him. It's a please don't follow. Stop following. Damn. That's, yeah, thank you guys so much for having me. Of course. It's amazing. Thanks for coming on.

That was fun. It's been a pleasure of a great episode. Yeah, yeah. It's so great. Thank you for coming. All right, have a happy thousandth planet, everybody. Bye.

Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Bye.