Sardonicast - Sardonicast 142: The Flash, Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

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All right, three, two, one. What are we? Some kind of bird man or the unexpected virtue of ignorance? Hello, I'm Adam from your movie sucks. That was a quote from The Flash. The Flash, a good movie. This is Sardonicast. Hi, I'm Ralph Soppy.

And I have a channel, Ralph the Movie Maker. What? Really? Ralph the Movie Maker. I'm Alex from A. And I've just come out of the Speed Force guys and I'm hyped. Oh, shit. I'm antsy over here.

You're part of the Speed Force? I'm so jealous. Yeah, remember that Oscar winning moment? Oh, yeah. Epic. Epic. I love that we got like that Oscar moment for two Zach Snyder films that were, I guess, decided the same way a 420 award would be decided. Yeah, yeah.

And really, uh, really, uh, just shows the legitimacy of social media and Twitter and fan culture. Fanboats. I forgot that existed until you just mentioned it. Yeah, I know. Probably be the cheer moment this year. How did you forget the Flash entering Speedforce moment? That was like two years ago, wasn't it?

So they, I guess, just abandoned that. Because we didn't get one last year. We didn't get a Twitter award. Oh, yeah, we didn't. Like a fan award, yeah. Yeah. I think that was their compromise after removing the Black Panther Award. Remember they were going to do like most popular film or something?

But that was like a fake win. Like it was just a bunch of bots, I think. I know. A bunch of Zach Snyder bots. So it wasn't even like a valid Oscar win. No. Unlike the 420 awards where it's purely just real, passionate, valid film going.

a cool cat fans. I like that Daddy Derek got to give himself his own award though. That's pretty cool. It was like a Nathan for you moment. There was something I wanted to mention before we get into the Flash. I started, I think I mentioned this to you like a couple years ago or something, Alex. There's a mod for the original Halo on PC called

cursed Halo. Oh, cursed Halo, yeah. I've seen some videos on it. You've seen some videos. They the newest update is like the easiest thing to install now. It's literally just You have the Master Chief Collection on Steam and then you just like click click the link in the guys video Inferno plus who made the mod you know subscribe to the mod and it's just oh the game's moded and it's fucking I I need you to play it I just started playing the newest update for it like yesterday. I'm gonna finish it next week. It's so funny You would love it. Is it this one cursed Halo again? Yes, is that the one? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So I'm just keeping that out, everybody, every Halo fan listening to Sardonicast. Because we were talking about HALA two times. So, um. Yeah, big Halo fan. You have to. Big Halo fan here. I mean, you said you played the first one, right? Yeah, I've played them. Yeah. Not as much as you guys.

Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, it's literally like my fucking childhood. And yet, unlike a lot of people who have, uh, people who have, uh, properties in their childhood that they are very emotionally connected to and nostalgic for. I'm able to say when the new one sucks. I'm able to say, hey, the Halo TV show, it's kind of bad, you know? Seems like a lot of people have a lot of problems. Halo 5 is kind of bad.

Yeah. Just because something's in your childhood, you don't have to be like, ah, if you say it's bad, that means I'm bad. Like, okay. Yeah, the Mario movie. Get your own personality. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. As long as you don't say Ezra Miller's a part of your childhood, then...

Yeah, there you go. You're good. Ooh, dang. Yeah. You don't want them there. Antonio Campos was a part of Ezra Miller's childhood. Yeah. So, The Flash, everybody. Yeah, speaking of Stan culture and obsessive fans that can't admit when something's bad. We saw The Flash. We have been hyped for this one, guys.

Hey, I love this movie. I love this movie, okay? the best superhero movie ever made the flash it's really funny that people are still playing defense for DC how right after all these years it's really funny that like like for the Snyderverse in particular it is like this isn't even like oh yeah

James Gunn reboot shit this is like yeah Alex and I were having a little convo I think before last recording about like the Star Wars fan base how like toxic they are And I'm like, yeah, like, that's how, like, the fans are, like, the Joker are or whatever. But do you see fans are kind of different? They're not just, like, racist or whatever, like, Star Wars fans. They're just like, I don't know.

They're kind of like, I don't want to use the word, like, stupid, but, like, it's kind of like they're in their own, like, bubble. It's like very interesting. Yeah, very interesting. I was looking at, because, of course, the Flash has had its first weekend and it's not tracking too well. So there are a bunch of tweets about, like, how much it's made in its first weekend. I was just looking through some of their replies on Twitter, and man, the amount of people with the hashtag,

restore the Snyder cut, every not a single Snyder movie lost money, like trying to make, and make their case, make their way for their thing. That's very funny. This is like Snyderverse stuff, and it still didn't do well.

Yeah, I mean. It's got, you know. I feel like they wouldn't be in the state they were, are in now, if not for the Snyderverse. Yeah, didn't, like, so, okay, you can say didn't lose money depending on how you

fudge the numbers, right? But I was under the impression that according to fucking Warner Brothers, like Batman v. Superman underperformed. Like, when they make a movie like that, they want like a billion dollars and they didn't get a billion dollars. Yeah. I think that's the movie that really unraveled

their whole plan. I think that's where it started. That was when they put a whole bunch of fucking effort and, well, I don't know, effort. But they put a lot of attempt in that movie. There was a lot riding on it. No, there was some effort there. There was some effort.

It just didn't, like, it didn't work. Like, the whole serious tone thing. It just didn't work what they were doing. Yeah, it did underperform. And it was critically panned. Like, I got a couple of fans liked it, but it was like, yeah, the theater experience for that was pretty miserable. A lot of critics did not like that movie.

I heard it was very long and time. It was, yeah. Oh, you haven't seen it. miserable film. Yeah, it is a miserable film. I'll watch it eventually. I honestly, like, no joke. I do like the Flash more than that movie.

Not that this high praise of this film, The Flash, because it's got a lot of problems. But they've been trying to, like, do something more fun with it, which is, like, fair. I mean, like, the first 10 minutes of this movie is, like, a Justice League movie of its own, and it's, like, better than the actual Justice League movie, probably. Yeah, you're right. It's both the James Gunn one. Oh, not it's not. He's gone. It's uh, uh, Joss Sweden. Yeah. And, and the Sider one as well.

Sweden. The original Justice League, yeah. Yeah. Sensitive Joss, Sweden. Yeah. So I, I feel like this type of film and this, the flesh, at this point, you know, especially with these Warner Brothers films, but this one in particular, it's kind of like a Frankenstein movie where, like, from beginning to end, like, we already know that it was plagued with like, you know, production, hell, limbo, and all that shit from, you know, when it got announced up until now, and then, like, Ezra Miller beating up half of Hawaii and, like, you know,

all this weird shit. But it's clear that the product that we're seeing is not exactly what it was conceived when it was started. This is not like an artist vision. This is like a Frankenstein movie where they're being like, oh, well, let's try to be a bit more like Marvel here and let's try to sneak this thing in here. You know, and maybe we'll have this moment that can, like, maybe help Ezra's press or something like it it really feels like they're just they're made they're sewing together like

this corpse into like a body yeah with the multiverse thing yeah the multiverse aspect is like spider-man yeah you know this film was announced in 2014 like that's when it was announced and yeah that's how long ago we're talking nearly a decade and yeah it is just a Frankenstein's like horrifying kind of celebration of whatever all of it has been up into this point. Like, they're really kind of trapped themselves into a corner. With like Zod and whatever. Because like,

as well, right. Because like, they shouldn't be trying to like Marvel. But they know Marvel is more successful. So they're trying to, it's so embarrassing watching DC try to do Marvel shit. Because it's just like,

you don't even have a distinct voice anymore. You're still doing it worse. Right? So just try to do your own thing. We're trying to do both because they found much more success with projects like The Batman, which everyone kind of liked and made a ton of money and was its own thing and Joker, you know, like they have projects that people care about that just not whatever this is. The Batman and Joker were definitely not trying to be like Marvel films.

They were their own thing and it was good at it. Whereas like this weird fucking Snyder Frankenstein bullshit. It's better than this. I don't even know what it's trying to do. shit. Yeah. Yeah, there's parts of it I like, but yeah, you're right, it's this Frankenstein's monster of like, shit. Like, oh, I like that. And then it like abandons it and moves on to like other stuff. There's like so many plotlines in this movie that are just dropped. It's just like crazy. It's like, oh, we're just done with that now and we're fucking moving on. It's like, this is a two

hour, 20 minute movie. Like, you have so much time to explore like all these plot lines and wrap them up. And it's like a lot of weird dialogue, but like the Ezra Miller situation. I don't know if that was like intentional. I swear. It's like, Warner Brothers fuck on me. I swear they added in some shit. Yeah.

Yeah. Like there's like the like the drug line like oh I'm going to drug you or whatever. There's like the baby in the microwave that was being shared around on Twitter. Which is like kind of like reversed footage or whatever like the clip they show on. It was funny. It was funny. Yeah. I was like what's the context to this?

Because I saw that before the movie. And then there's like a reporter at the end of the movie like Ezra Miller is like walking down the stairs or whatever after explaining like some stupid crap and then it's like what about the allegations the reporter says to him it's like a like such a quick thing but like what is this like that must be unintentional but it like it has to be but like it's a two hour 20 minute movie no one like test screened it and said like we can cut this stuff out like it wouldn't be missing i'm anything i'm skeptical about like how much of this movie I know that Batman was in...

Sorry, Michael Keaton was in talks to, like, be in this movie since before all of the controversy with Ezra. But at the very least, we can say the marketing in particular was in response to Ezra's allegations because they didn't let them do any interviews. And, like, half of the marketing you see for the movie is just, like, a Batman poster. It's like, The Flash.

Yeah. Okay. Like, how much... Was Batman supposed to be this huge part of a movie? Yeah, and they got the Supergirl actor to do most of the press. Do most of the press tour. It's so funny. And she's in it for like 10 minutes, yeah.

And she doesn't show up to like, yeah, like an hour and a half into the movie, maybe later? I don't know. But yeah, like that Flash trailer, there's one trailer where it ends with the Batman logo. It's like the Big Batman logo and then it turns into the Flash logo. Like the lighting changes. It becomes the Flash logo. That's where I started to see like the Crash. X and like, because I thought this movie was going to do well. It was tracking really well.

And then when I saw that, I'm like, I started to lose faith in it a little bit that it wouldn't, that would, that it would underperform meets like below expectations. And yeah, it's not doing well. It's like way underperform. I was kind of surprised by that too. I thought once I like ended, when I saw it last week, I thought, oh, yeah, audiences are probably going to like this. That was my like internal prediction. So I am kind of shocked at. Is it just because of how close it is to spite of it? which is just like... Yeah, they're like trying to get the audience to like it. Like it has the elements, you know, like the crowd cheer moments where they all come out and it's like the three of them, like the two flashes and supergirl and, you know, they want the audience to cheer, but my audience wasn't having that reaction. And I just like looked at the box office now.

Like the projections for it were actually really like a hundred million or more, maybe even more than that. And the reality was like it made like maybe $55 million. which I think is worse than like the new Transformers movie that just came out and like that was projected to do poorly and and it did better. I think it's also worse than Black Adam too, which was like one of the. Yeah, it is worse of Black Adam. And you know, that was another huge like fucking bomb for them. And yeah, like the rock like got pissed about it.

But this is worse. This is a worse like situation for them. It's like kind of shocking. I didn't expect like the film to underperform that bad. Is that three in a row or more? Because there was Shazam as well. Yeah, Shazam was a huge flop. I don't, like, it's crazy.

Somebody posted this as like a little fucking thing on Twitter, so I didn't fact check it, but it sounds about right? Like four out of the past six superhero movies that have been released. Yeah, because then I guess, underperforming. I guess it was the suicide squad before that, right, which was around COVID times of that suffered because of that as well. I think like superhero movies in general, not even. just DC is what they were talking about.

You know, like Guardians is doing okay. Yeah. You know, it's superhero movie fatigue, but there's just like so much of it. There's stuff going on, like the Ezra Miller thing, the fact that there's so much competition. Like this movie, it's making money now, but one, everyone who's seen it is like going to, that's the crowd for it. Those are the people who wanted to see it. And they're not going to see it again. So it's like going to have a drop off in that way.

Yeah. And then, like, you know, this summer is so packed with movies. We were kind of talking about with, like, the new mission possible. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's making money now because the IMAX sales and the RPC sales. But, like, that's going to go away, like, in the coming weeks. And it's just going to be like, it's going to fizzle out very quickly, I bet. That's, like, my prediction on it.

It's not, like, going to have any staying power. Like, you know, Avatar, the Way of Water, which had, like, no competition at all. Yeah, true. Yeah, it's so busy this summer. Yeah, that's kind of interesting. In terms of the movie, so everybody's clowning on the special effects because, you know,

there's a lot of times where people will say, it'll look like PS3 graphics. I'm like, you're exaggerating a little. And now I'm like, okay, this actually looks like PS3 graphics. Like, holy shit, this is an unfinished movie. Oh, but that was intentional, though. I glad you mentioned that. That bizarre article, the director.

Yeah, it was the director, so yeah. It's, uh, Andy... Machete. It's kind of like a weird... Andy Machete. He did, uh, It and It Chapter 2, whatever. But yeah, he came out, like, the effects are supposed to look weird when he's time traveling, because the lighting, but, blah, blah, blah, space and time is warped or or some shit.

Yeah. I'm like, but what about, like, the rest of the movie? I know. He was very sneaky. I looked up the source for that interview. The article didn't say how their question was phrased, but it very heavily implies that they were asking specifically about like, why did the babies look so bad? And so Andy Machetti's sister, Barbara, who's a producer on the film, answered, like, as a

joke at first, like, no, we actually used real babies. So that implies that the question was about the babies, is her joke answer. And then when Andy Machete answers, he essentially tries to do the thing where he's, he's pretending the question was about something else. And he's answering, like, he's clearly talking about like, because he used the phrasing like, oh, it's like he's, um, in his vision, it's like a water world. So there's going to be like some warped kind of like perspectives and stuff. And he's, what he's talking about very clearly is, you know, the color hue changing and like

the buildings in the back. getting kind of wavy and like the focus kind of you know the the depth of field shifting like so he tried to answer the question without actually answering the question they were clearly talking about the bad looking character models and he was clearly talking about like oh no because like you know he he tried to non answer by answering a different question because if you if you watch the movie the babies have shit character models before time slows down and everything gets orange and electricy and warpy, right? Those shit character models happen before time stops.

And during that wavy, warpy sort of perspective thing, the woman falling out of the building does not look like shit. The babies do. Right? So it's not like, oh, he wasn't even addressing the look of the character models. And then, you know, that became its own headline. Other publications started repeating and reporting like, Oh, the director says that everything's supposed to look like shit, basically.

So he tried his best to not answer the question, but now it looks like he's just still being bullshitty about it, which is just kind of funny. He did a Jedi mind trick on everyone. Yeah, he did a Jedi mind trick on everyone. That baby scene, though, man. Oh, yeah, that was bad. Let me just get into spoilers. Yeah, I guess spoilers for the flash.

Spoiler discussion. Yeah, yeah. The Twilight baby scene, man. It's been the worst since then. was going to go there. Yeah. I was laughing out loud. And I don't think in a way they were intended because it is framed as like a kind of

comedic scene. You know, there's like the dog falling trying to eat like a hot dog or whatever. But it is just, there's something really creepy and just repulsive about the look of this movie. It's, um, it is disgusting, like how it looks. Like it's visually just so it's fucked. I can't really think of a more eloquent way to explain its visual style. things aside from that. Everything from like, yeah, from the character models from just the

color parts of the movie from Ezra Miller's suit, this new flash suit that they're in. Just a disgusting movie to look at. And also like, you said that the Justice Sea kind of assemble at the beginning and there's this whole action sequence with Batman coming in. Batman in broad daylight again. I don't know if that ever really comes together. And of course, Keaton's Batman in the, in the, in the desert, like a whole sequence. It's just a lot of confusing choices, but... Yeah. There's something about it.

There was something about this now. I wasn't bored. I'm sorry, I wasn't bored about this movie. It was like... It's like, we often describe these movies as like watching money burn and like a car crash in motion. It's like, this is like a really potent one of those, you know? It really is like pathetic, you know, in a really entertaining way for me.

Yeah. Was it giving you flashbacks to like quantum mania? Because I remember you saying, like, that's your favorite Ant Man movie because it's such a disaster, you know? I was, the problem with Quantumania was it was way more boring than this. Much more boring for me. There wasn't enough craziness. Yeah. Where this was just like, it's so cursed.

Everything about this is just so cursed. It's so, it's so wacky. It almost could have worked, but it, like, didn't, like, entirely. I enjoyed, like, the opening baby scene. I'm like, this is so dumb. Yeah, yeah, I was like, giving me more of this. Give me the absurd superhero antics of this level, this level of goofy. It's such a, it's such a bizarre tone shift with like how serious and self-serving those

Zach Snyder movies to then wind up with this being the conclusion of that universe. It's like so inherently funny to me. Yeah, yeah. It's so funny. From beginning to end, it does kind of turn into this weird Frankenstein's monster sort of thing. Like, what's even left? really got me with the effects was that fucking uh, the deep fake

supermans at the end. Those were like unbelievable. Like, it looks so fucking bad. It looks like atrocious. It looks horrendous. And it's kind of funny that they're all CG, even Nick Cage. Like, that was funny. Yeah, the Nick Cage.

Like, I don't know how many people would even get that. That he was like supposed to play Superman. By the audience, the Nick Cage. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because that's a fun little Reddit. thing. Yeah.

The Tim Burton, yeah. Yeah. I just, I saw some, I don't even know how many, I wonder how many of them even, they probably didn't even get paid, right? They don't, they don't own the rights to the likeness of them

appearing as that character, right? I wonder how many of them, like, some of them are dead. I don't know, but it's their face, though, right? Surely their estate or something? Yeah, probably their estate signed off on it or something. Yeah, I think maybe Nick Cage got something.

I heard the, I think it was like the black and white Superman. Like, he was quoted attributing his involvement in the film to like his suicide. So people were pointing out how like weird it was that they kind of resurrected him. Referenced him. For the movie. Yeah. Yeah. It was, yeah, I was actually expecting the reference multiverse stuff to be way.

more egregious. Like that that scene is egregious and awful and terrible and distasteful, but I was expecting a lot more of that, to be honest, like, I don't know if my expectations were too low or what, but like considering like how bad something like Space Jam is or whatever.

Yeah, yeah. We've seen so much worse than this as far as that since. It's not as good as Spider-Man. Even that Ghostbusters movie from recently, that had like, maybe one of the worst, like, deep fake bring back, like, things I've ever seen. Like, that is, like, insulting. It's not even about the deep fake

anymore or the I mean they're just CG I guess but it's not even about the quality of it it's the fact that they're just too fucking late to the game like I just saw the new spider verse mild spoilers canonizing

all the previous iterations of Spider-Man going like oh the Toby verse and the Andrew Garfield verse those are actually real and part of the connected thing and it's like okay everybody's fucking done this now Marvel fucking did like all of this shit, you're too late to the fucking party. It's boring

now. It's boring. I don't care. You're not showing me anything new. It's not surprising. I expect it at this point. Also, what the fuck? Why was the Superman black and white universe? Like, the universe itself was black and white? So we're now canonizing the idea that it wasn't black and white film

in a color universe, but that the entire universe had not invented color or just doesn't have color? That's what you're canonizing about that? the universe doesn't have colors and back to the deep fake thing I think Michael Shannon is Zod I'm pretty sure they just like got him

in a green screen room for one day like sit here we're gonna record your face and then we'll like put it on a CGI model because that's like you only ever see him like with a mask on yeah right like you never see his like like until dawn or something it's kind of like that kind of thing yeah but it's like noticeable in the movie

and like he didn't even need to be in it. Like, Zod doesn't need to be in it. Half the shit that happens, like, yeah, like the black and white Superman, it's just like reference humor. It's like what, yeah, Spider-Band does that kind of thing, like much better, even like no way home, the way they handle it there. It's, it's much less egregious. That being said, I didn't mind Michael Keaton in the movie. I thought he fit fun. He's probably my favorite part. When he showed up, I was like entertained enough. But yeah, they kind of drop him too at a certain point and it just becomes like about this other kind of you know multiversal what like it's so like

convoluted it's like time travel it becomes the multiverse and like none of the rules make any sense like we're talking about how frustrating like time travel movies are that make no sense this is what makes no sense yeah it doesn't make any sense maybe the worst time travel movie for like any sort of logic or consistency or not yeah off in any way it's maybe the word like the whole point of the movie is that like don't mess with the past because it'll ruin the future and then the end of the movie He just messes with the past anyway. Oh, it's like, well, it didn't mess things up too bad. He wanted to kill his mom.

Instead of Ben Affir, now, it's George Clooney. Like, that's it. And it's like, oh, okay, well, that's not too bad. I guess I can live with that. It wasn't even for a gag. They, like, they pretended as if, so I'm going to make the analogy to the Spider-Verse thing again, mild, I guess, spoilers for the Spider-Verse movie. In that movie, they're like, no, there's a canon event.

And, you know, obviously in the next one, they'll find out, oh, it's not real anyway, and you can save people. But at least they were trying to be like, oh, oh, yeah. all the different universes, this sort of thing happens. You can't have like a canon event, the concept of fate and also changing things through time travel also. Right? You got to like pick one. Like the time travel thing makes everything so fucked in the sense that like they kind of just decide that his mom dying is a canon event.

They don't use those words in this movie in the flash. They're like, this is fate. Yeah. This has to happen. There's no way you can not do it. But it's like in the context of the film, it seems. Seems like the only reason that they couldn't save the Batman and all that shit at the end and have Zod not take over the world. Seems like the only reason he was not successful is because one of them wasn't helping.

And he just stood there in the time travel waiting room where you don't actually have to run fast and you can just stand there and think about things. He was just chilling there. Like the only, and then he fucking, the other one grows up like 60 years or whatever of like, I guess just running and maybe eating. trying all these things over and over again. And he's like, ah, don't worry, I just got to do one more thing. I've almost got it. It's like, it seems like the only reason he was unsuccessful is because he was doing that solo. If both of you were trying to do that, maybe you could have.

Because you just decided, like, no, that's definitely got to happen. You could have easily decided that exact same thing about your fucking dad going to jail. Why isn't that like fate? Why isn't that a canon event? Yeah. Right? But then he's just like, no, I can save my dad, but I don't actually like my mom and I'm deciding that she can die.

Like, you didn't even fucking try. It was the other version of you from the other universe that was trying. You're like, barely, you tried once and then decided like, oh, it's not worth it. I don't care. Like, fuck you. There's no motivation. You just kind of make up these rules and you've decided like, oh, this actually has to happen for the movie. Go fuck yourself.

It's so stupid. It comes from nowhere. Pulled out of somebody's ass. It's almost so bad. I can't even, like, explain it. It would just take me hours. It's so annoying. It was like, yeah, like the time travel.

little thing. It just like makes my brain fulbin. That's the thing though, right? Like, the, the flash to me, I have kind of a fondness for this character for some reason. I've never seen like the CW show or anything like that, but I have seen like him in some of the animated movies back in the day. And I think this one's very, very loosely based off, um, it's a flash story called the the flashpoint paradox, which is kind of like a fun else world thing where

yeah, the flash, like he goes back in time, he figures out he can run fast enough and like breaks everything. and then, yeah, it's like a fun excuse to have, there is like an equivalent Batman character, but he's all wrong. It's like, instead of his parents dying, Bruce dies, and his dad is the one who becomes Batman. It's like this really edgy violent Batman.

It's like fun stuff like that. So they kind of subbed out instead of doing something kind of fun like that, they sub in, oh, let's have it be a reference to Michael Keaton to fill that kind of role and this and that. But yeah, it's fine. It also has to be, Because of the universe they've set up, they have to reference Man of Steel, which is kind of like the big plot point is that the flash goes back in time,

ruins everything, loses his powers, and there are no other superheroes that really exist. So Zod coming is like a big deal, and Zod's going to kill everyone. And they keep simultaneously, I don't know, because that Man of Steel movie was criticized so hard for like how vicious it kind of wound up being

and how the collateral damage. So they're kind of told with this movie. the end kind of big battle is in the desert but they keep cutting away to like the carnage that's going on in the city and like people being lifted up and crushed down into the ground in the most violent

where you've ever seen but yeah it really can't find the balance and then at the same time it's kind of an origin story for the Flash as well and this was something I didn't actually mind and didn't expect them yeah I like that too it like becomes an origin story like

kind of like as he travels back in time. I thought that's like clever. Yeah, very late in the game. But it's not like, you know, like there's so many origin stories that are like the same kind of crap. It's like, oh, this is kind of a unique spin on it. It brought out a change in the character. That's what I liked about it. Because the Azra Miller Flash in those Zack Snyder movies is quite overbearing, irritating, annoying. And there's like a moment in this where he meets himself and it's like, God, you're really annoying. And then from that point on, it's kind of a way more serious character and does take things with a bit more like gravitas and treats things in a different way.

And yeah, if the casting was different and didn't have all the drama around it and he rewrote a bunch of things, that could actually have been a fun dynamic and like the Flash having to, an experienced Flash having to teach a Flash that knows nothing and is an asshole and hasn't gone through the same loss that he has is, yeah, that's kind of a fun dynamic for me. Yeah, that almost feels like something that's been planned. Like you said this movie started being made like in 2014 or whatever And that feels like a very early concept for the movie that they were like, oh, this is a great idea. Let's like, you do this. But then it just gets like kind of derailed by other things happening. Yeah.

Can someone remind me what so in just at the end of the Justice League movie or I only saw the Snyder cut? They flash, the flash was used as like a way to solve the conflict by the end of it. and they were trying to run fast to do something, was that also turning back time, or was the first instance of the Flash changing the past in this movie? And did that happen? That happened before this movie, right? There was that whole running thread where starting in BVS,

like the Flash appears, like, in a kind of unexplained scene, explaining to Ben Affleck's Batman that something has to happen or it's all going to go wrong. And it's not really explained until, there's a bit more in the Snyder cut with that horrible Jared Leto scene at the end, right? Okay. Like that seemed to be like how they were going to link it all together. It's like so poorly told and like planned out and plotted.

It never really pays off because yeah, they like plan that out. But then like Batman versus Superman didn't work out so they never made that movie or like Superman turns evil. I assume that's like what is like hooking or linking to like injustice or whatever. The flash is supposed to go back in time. in a future movie and you're supposed to see that in like some future movie that never happened, you know? Instead we get this. And it's just like so many like inconsistencies to like the Snyder verse and whatever.

Like you remember Billy Crutt up was like, oh, cast as the Flash's dad in Justice League and now it's like they recast him. So it's like, okay, you know, you brought like all these other people back but not him. It's a pretty like key character. They even bring back, you know, the Aquaman's dad in the movie. Oh, Tomor Morrison, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but not like him. I don't know.

So, what was the Flash doing at the end of the Snyder cut to solve the problem? That's the Speed Force scene, right? The Oscar moment or whatever? Yeah, Oscar Chim moment. What were they doing? What was he actually trying to, yeah, it's a good question. He was running in a circle around, Jesus Christ, what the fuck happened in that scene? Why was he doing that?

It would help if the movie wasn't four hours long. I mean, then I might remember it. Because in the context of like this movie, it seemed like they were just discovering that they could go back in time. Well, he has a bunch new, like, abilities. That was actually one of the things I did kind of like a bit more was like, he can, like, phase through things in this movie. Like, you can just like vibrate his particles and just like fall through the floor or whatever. Which, I mean, like, if you're grabbing something else, would you not phase through the thing you're grabbing rather than the thing you're grabbing also phasing through things? like,

Oh yeah, makes no sense. It makes absolutely. Yeah, again, they clearly set up that like you have to, like if you, if you phase through something,

like your clothes will like not go through because it's like a solid object. Unless you're just really good at it. I don't understand how being good at it would prevent you from falling through the floor though. No, I think it's like because the suit. Hmm?

I think the suit like makes him phase through like, you know, and stay clothed. But there's a point he like phases through a great like the 18 year old Ezra Miller and his clothes go with them. So it's like, what? I'm just saying gravity should make him fall downwards,

no matter whether or not his skill of being good at it. Yeah. Yeah. But the other rule I did kind of like that they added was that he's got to eat and refill his hunger Minecraft bar in order to run first. That was like something, you know. It's kind of overdone though, I thought. Well, I think.

So he's got a fucking meter on his wrist, like this fucking smartwatch built into his son. suit, like a Fitbit or something. And the only purpose is to tell him when he's hungry? I love that. That's hilarious. It's ridiculous. Oh, look at my, look at the time.

I'm hungry now. That's like the baby scene and the craziness. Because otherwise, he's got no limitations on his speed. And it's just like, man, and he needs something to hold him back. You know, he needs his kryptonite of some form. And I like that that was at least something.

He could just carry chocolate bars on him. And he gets someone to throw a chocolate bar at him at the beginning of the movie and then Batman's like, no, you gotta get here right now. He's like, okay, and he just leaves it on the street. Like, oh, I couldn't have picked it up. Couldn't have picked it up off the street. That would have taken too much time. Go fuck yourself. Littering. Yeah, I think he's a

tough character, the flesh. Yeah. He's broken. There's no rules. Yeah. He can change anything. He just changed time. He changed everything that happened in the universe. He was just like, I'm going to go back in time and change it. Yeah, the Flash could basically do anything.

Yeah, that's true. Well, I just searched up what the Speed Force scene was, by the way. Okay. In Zach Snyder's Justice League, the Flash enters Speed Force, a layer of reality that can manipulate time in order to give the Justice League the final victory in the climactic battle. Yeah, I guess it's just that. So, okay. When he starts manipulating time in this movie, the context of it in the Flash was like, Okay, he remembered his mom dying, and then he ran, and it was like, this is the first time he ever ran, like, really angry or something.

And then he's like, whoa, bro, I'm in like this time thing now, and I can just pick out where I want to go. And if I just keep running, I can go back in time. It's like, okay, he seemed like he accidentally stumbled upon it in this. In the Justice League, it was built up into this, like, okay, you've got to run as fast. as you possibly, like, you've got to run faster than you've ever ran before, ever. It was like, that was something that was, like, built up, like, an intentional, like, you got to do this, and it's going to take time to even, like, try to do this. And it's like, okay.

So that, and then now it seems like somebody he accidentally stumbled upon. And then the new version of the Flash, the one that literally just got his power is, like, that day, is able to run through time, like, just by essentially just being like, oh, I can do that, and then they just do it, and it's fine. It's like, it just seems so inconsistent with, like, where plot-wise or effort-wise or character-wise that ability should be, you know? Like, they're just making shit up as they go along,

and nothing's consistent, it doesn't matter. And it's so annoying. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's a scene very similar to, in recently in Spider-Vverse, where the spot villain, I guess, minor spoilers, figures out that you can go through like the multiverse and there's some like funny

shots of uh azra miller poking his head through little portals and then like appearing um and it's just hilarious contrasting it with that movie it's like double the budget as well of that of the spider versus yeah yeah literally the best looking film of the year and then the worst looking film of the year and there's so much in common yeah yeah well they all try to do this multiverse shit now it's like so popular But yeah, it's like a $200 million budget Like it's so inflated the fucking budgets for these movies It's like crazy

I don't know how they think they're gonna make their money back It just doesn't make any sense yeah It should be more modest You're definitely not seeing it on the screen No not at all It's like they like scrapped scenes and rewrote them And then tried to get people to fucking animate Something in a week

And just released a fucking BS3 version It does feel rushed yeah That's probably what happened I mean not even too far off They probably like I think that's what happened rewrote half the movie and put more Batman in it. I will say that when Michael Keaton as Batman shows up, even though he did phone it in,

even though it wasn't like a great performance or anything, it was a breath of fucking fresh air for me after nothing but Ezra Miller acting off of Ezra Miller for just like forever. I was in two moods. I was like just perpetually uncomfortable. I was either like bored or having a panic attack. And I was sober the entire time. I was like, okay. Well, I was, you know, I'm not going to drink today.

You know, be at my brother's wedding in a couple weeks. I'm going to lose some weight. And I'm just like, fucking God, this was the worst time to try and do this. Yeah. This film does need a stiff drink or potentially something stronger to us. To get to maximise it. It was the wrong movie to watch sober. It was bad idea.

There's just so much. Like, it's hilarious to be, like, it's so broken at its core. Like, the whole point of the movie, right, is supposed to be like, is this message of trying to move on, not, like, clinging on to the past, you know? But then at the same time, they have this, like, whole zombie, CG old characters and bringing in Michael Keaton and celebrating all this old shit that, like, move on. Like, you can't do this. It doesn't even make, and, like, they half-ass it, too, like, the whole,

it is referencing the Tim Burton movies, but only very, very lightly. Like, they barely really mention any of the events from those movies. Even, well, I suppose there's some of the imagery in there. But, like, not broadly. It's like, he's not Batman anymore just because Gotham has no crime. And he's just, like, chilling in his house, I guess. And he's, like, 80 years old.

It's just a really weird, like, desperate reference. And it's like, who's this even for at this point, you know? Like, it's so long ago. Yeah. The references just feel obligatory. They don't feel like, oh, yeah, this is a good thing that the writer wanted to put in the movie because they thought it would make the movie better. It felt completely obligatory.

Like, DC showing up to the fucking, to the multiverse meme, and A24 beat them to it. Like, you're too late. Go home. Like, get out of here. Like, just stop. Give up. Yeah. It's old.

It's old. already. You're boring. Like the movie, old. Yeah. This movie was a beach that made me turn old. Yeah. You can make these things work. It's just like so complicated and the movie's just like way too fucking long. I think I'd be more with you, Alex, if like, I think I actually have more on your side in terms of like enjoying parts of it. But it's like so fucking long. And it's, it's like better than Jurassic World Dominion maybe because it's like those movies,

that movie's also very long. I was just bored to tears by it. And this has like flourishes of like stuff I liked. Like the opening like the origin like Michael Keaton. It just kind of like falls apart. Like they introduced all this stuff with Supergirl and she becomes part of the movie. And it's like this, it just goes this other fucking direction at that point. And then the movie drops that. And then there's the stuff like the Flash is talking about the time he like almost rescued a son and the father. They were like getting, you know, thrown to the ground and Batman's steel or whatever, that scene where, like, the machines, like, violently throwing everyone into the concrete. But, like, so, so Ezra Miller saves this kid. But, like, nothing ever comes to that. You see, like, later on in, like, the alternate Michael Keaton timeline that, you know, the kid and the father are there and there's, like, the machine going. But, like, did they ever, like, wrap that up in a satisfying way? That's right. You're right. They don't do that. Because the- conclusion he makes is that that universe is just done for.

Yeah, it's just like, like you didn't even need it. Which is such a shit thing to do. He's an asshole. It's just like nothing. You try to redeem this character and you have all these fucking sappy emotional music cues and like, oh, you don't know what it's like to lose a mom and like all this shit pretending Ezra Miller can even act. And all these, you're pretending to do this like real movie with like real consequences and real stakes.

But at the end of the day, the character's a fucking asshole. that doesn't give a shit about entire universes of people who's just like, yeah, whatever they're done for. And then immediately after, without even thinking that it contradicts itself, like, oh, actually, I'll move the tomatoes for my dad. He can get out of jail. I don't give a shit about my mom. She can die, whatever. All these entire universe of people, they can all die.

Go fuck yourself. It's not a redeemable character. You're making everything up. You're an asshole. Like, after all that, he just changes everything anyway. That's what I can't get over. Like, after all that, he's like, oh, let me just change the tomatoes. and like the on a different shelf.

It's like, you just defeated like the whole point of like the two and a half hour movie I just sat through. There was no point. Yeah, no conclusion. It's more open-ended. The entire movie was no, it was entirely pointless. Yeah. With the whole George Clooney thing, it is just like, oh, yeah, you've just messed. You've messed it up even worse.

Like, you're going to fix it now? Like, what are you going to do about this? You're just going to leave it this way? The character is such an asshole. And annoying. I can't stand them. annoying. I've never liked that character.

It's just, they've always been annoying in like every movie, Batman. Like that dragged down the Justice League Snyder cut for me too. I was sick, I don't like this character. It was the most annoying part of an already terrible movie. Yeah. I don't like the flash character. Interpretation. It didn't need to be this way. Yeah. Yeah. So you

take the absolute worst parts of an already terrible movie. You make that the entire movie and then you make two of them. You double it. And that's the flash. That's the flash. It's a gigantic piece of shit.

It's so funny. And then you've got like weird tonal stuff, right? Like, because it is this horror director. And then there's this whole, yeah, this whole story beat with the Flash's mom being murdered. And like that scene is like surprisingly brutal. There's like a impaled knife in her of like blood everywhere. And there is a fair amount of blood and violence in the movie. And then, yeah, that is contrasted with the baby scene with like,

It's a comedy, I feel like, first and foremost. It's tonally very strange. Like, it's very confused. And there's no stakes anyway. No. Yeah. It's just like, you can never find out who kills the mom. Like, the flesh never went back in time to see who killed his mom.

And then maybe, and then go back to the present. Yeah. Why? It's, that's a weird thing to decide not to do. Yeah. And then go back to the president and, like, find that guy. And then, like, find some evidence or so. We fucking frame him or so.

I don't know. I mean, honestly, yeah. Like, if, if, if, if, if, if, If there was this whole, like, oh, you can't change too much in the past, you can't, like, interact with it. And that was all speculative, too. They kind of just decided that. As soon as they had time travel powers, it was like a scene of Ezra Miller just talking to themselves, just being like, oh, well, you know, if I probably can't touch anyone in the past, maybe. Even though you did that and you hugged your mom, but whatever.

You know, like, oh, I probably can't do anything super huge. So I'm just going to move cans of tomatoes. I've decided based on nothing that moving cans of tomatoes is the extent of what I am able to do. One time does the whole movie and you decided, oh, that's too much. And then you move the entire shelf of tomatoes. But not once did the character even try to like, I don't know, stop the death of his mom by beating up the person that did it. Or even spectating and just finding out who did it. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

You don't have to adjust anything. Just watch it and then go back in the present and find the guy and just like find some evidence or something. Maybe frame him like do something so like people suspect him and not like the dad or whatever. Like maybe that would have been better. You can you can go back in time to when the murderer of his mom was a baby and then phase shift a can of tomatoes into the baby's brain. And you're just moving a can of tomatoes. You're not really doing anything else. Oh yeah.

Or even like take a picture of it happens. happening, like, just like with your phone and then go back to the present. That's kind of funny. Look at this photo of this guy murdering my mom and not my dad. Yeah, this just like, you know, like, and that's what just happens with, like, time travel. This photo was dated from the future, but that's, ignore that. You can just explain it. Or like, the flash could come in and said, well, I actually, because, like, people know the

flash in the universe and, like, it could do, like, a thing where, like, like, uh, that's true. Like, the flash can just show up and be like... Yeah, exactly. Barry's like, I gotta go to the bathroom quick. He leaves and then the flash comes in and then does that and then leaves the room again. And then the Barry comes back in the courtroom. All of the rules that the character decided for the movie were based on a conversation that they had with themselves.

And then later, based on Batman making spaghetti. And they're like, you can't do spaghetti, man. It's going to get entangled. And you can't do that. And then when he fucking... We moves the canned of tomatoes. He changes and makes an entirely new scenario like he did. So first can of tomatoes, he goes, uh, everything's fine.

Parents are alive. Goes home. Oh, no. There's another flash. Oops. I forgot that I'm entering someone else's universe. But then they do that again. Where's the second flash in that universe at the end?

He just shows up in court. He's like, oh, I see you've made it to court. And he just takes someone else's place clearly. Did he kill himself? Did that happen off screen? Why was there no second flash? in that universe. It was never addressed. You change things again. There should be another flash there.

Yeah, that's true. There should be another flash. The time stuff's just so, it's just broken. Yeah, you could like do hours of like analysis on it. The character's broken. It shouldn't be a movie. Why make this? Just fucking release Batgirl already, you know? It's not even going to be good. But what the fuck was this? Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, what makes this one like so special that they like release this one and not backroll? I mean, they both are probably terrible. I'm just like, like, what's the difference? I was actually surprised they didn't. I thought they were good. Do you remember when the X-Men movies got to a point where they were kind of just fucked as well? And then they did that whole time travel thing. They reset it.

Yeah, let's reset this. But that was better. That was a lot better. And it was also the first one. Yeah. It's also entertaining. Like, it's just an entertaining movie And this is like, I don't know

Parts of it are entertaining It may be Oh yeah, it's definitely desperate It's pathetic But it's hilarious And I just found it Like, like, considering like the slew of this shit We've gotten recently

Yeah, Black Adam, Thor, Love and Thunder Ant Man, Shazam But I was way more entertained by this Like this to me is like a unique type of bad Like you just don't normally get in this space So this is crazy. What we're talking about right now is a crazy film.

Yeah. It's insane. At least I like, I'm passionate about it in some way. I don't know. Like, yeah, bad, what is it, Black Adam? I was going to say, bad Adam. Black Adam is like, so boring. It's so bland.

And this is like, yeah, it does all this crazy stuff and it's so wacky that, yeah, I was like engaged in it the whole time. But it's still too long. Like, it just goes on for so. long and it just drops so many like key plot points and it just feels like such filler at times and it's like yeah it makes for a good discussion i'd be more on your guys aside here in like the entertainment factor if if like to me Ezra miller acting as this character is like nails on a fucking chalkboard and so having that doubled and then the entire two and a half hour runtime is

literally just like i'm it's it's quantile Onimo for me, essentially. So, no. It's Final Fantasy Spirits Within. I prefer this to the head, honestly. Yeah, that's how I feel, that's how I felt about the rock in Black Adam, where he's just, he's just such a charisma vacuum, just like, you can just see his ego, like, in his cape, you know. That was a boring, sleepy movie, for me.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, this isn't so boring. There is just something wacky about it, and that it did have that dynamic going for it, where the two characters did contrast and it did bring at least something, something, as opposed to nothing. This is mad trippy. Is that Batman? Is that madman? See, I'm making me watch it again right now.

That was a pretty good impression. Yeah, it's sketched into my fucking skull. It won't leave. It's like one of those really bad, like, but infectious songs, you know, where it's like, so cringe, but there's a, that just sticks in your memory that you can't get it out. Is that Batman? But they just kept doing things. They just kept doing things.

And I was like, there's no way they're going to go that direct. Like with the baby scene. I thought, there's no way they're actually going to do this. And then they do it. And then they start doing like this evil flash thing. Like they tease it early on in the movie. He's like punched out of that weirds, bald, zorb thing that he's in by evil flash. And it's like, oh, they're going to do evil flash.

This is like hilarious. He's like covered in spikes. and he's got this crazy character design. Yeah. It's just so dumb. And they like fucking five minutes before they spell it out, Flash 2 gets a scar on his face. And even though it's excruciatingly obvious that that's just the other Flash but later, he's like, oh, the scar on your face. It's like, you're figuring this out like way after anybody in the audience could have possibly figured it.

Like, this was not necessary. Like, what do you mean the scar? Like, how about the fucking, the gigantic dagger sticking out of your arm? Like, why did you do the scar on the face thing? Like, that seemed like an obligatory, like, oh, the thing that differentiates and so you know which one of us it is. Doi. Yeah, yeah. Fuck you.

It's so stupid. I can't. We should talk about another movie. Are we done? I guess. Maybe. I don't feel like we are. I don't know if we ever will be is the problem, though

I feel like this is so much It's so dense Part of the charm of it is like It's such a weird Wacko Bizarre movie Like genuinely Like it did hold my attention

Yeah my attention was held And like in suit they put like The other flash in That's like made out of like Batman's suit and it's like It's like locked his head in place and it just looks so fucked up. Just everything about this.

Yeah, super bizarre movie. It does feel like kind of patched, like a patched job for like five years of like working on it. Like even just like the script maybe, but yeah, it's like it kind of feels unfinished and like it's it's so weird. It's such a weird movie. I don't know what to say. It's very unique. Yeah, it's super unique. But it is representative of everything that's wrong with movies at the same time.

You know, it's like a uniquely... Definitely. Terrible summary of the last couple decades of film. Yeah, like all the worst parts of superhero movies, all the worst parts of like fan culture. Yeah. Yeah. Just, yeah, this fanboyish type reference stuff. The multiverse stuff, nostalgia.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like Spider-Man does it much better. It's a satire without intending to be. Hmm.

You know? It almost kind of is a... like it's almost is kind of intentional maybe i guess we'll never know i guess it wants to have its cake and eat it too one thing we could also mention that we didn't uh before is the music i found it to be fucking so that the composition zero personality zero like just completely bland like oh temp music sort of thing and then for like 10 seconds it did this techno thing and then never did again it was like okay we're doing some like electronic instrumentals here and then like okay never again and then all of the licensed music was

just so fucking pathetic like attempting to be cool like oh yeah it's fucking you know we're gonna have some rock music and this is cool shit this is a cool character bros like fuck off and they were trying so hard it was really annoying music made it a lot yeah this character yeah because the music i feel like this character's had what two three different themes because like danny elfman made one for the original version of Justice League, but then Zach Snyder had a different theme or something.

I don't know if it's a new one again or if it's the Snyder. I have no idea what's even going on this universe. It's like such a mess. Yeah, they're calling back to like five different movies. Even more. It's fucking, yeah, it's fucking wacko. It's pretty funny though, like,

I don't know, our discussion of it. Yeah, because do you remember the end of Black Adam was a tease for the Henry Cavill Superman. Uh-huh, and this just never comes into play, like, at all. Yeah, that's, like, done now, right? It's just done, like, that's not happening. That's also what's so fucking pathetic about, like, every DC fucking movie, no matter what they should, like, they keep teasing these different things,

but it doesn't matter. Like, it's not, like, you can't expect it to ever happen. Yeah, yeah, it means nothing. So what's the point? Like, oh, get excited for this. Like, we're not going to do it, but, you know, maybe in your imagination you can think of something. No, the second the credits ended right, like, I just left, because I don't give a shit about, like, staying around for the own credits. Oh, you didn't stay the post credit.

But, like, and people were giving me, like, the look, you know, like, this idiot doesn't even know what he's missed them out. I just, I just, I just, I'm walking, like, back to my car, I just, like, Google the Flash end credit scene. Just read what happens. It's a stupid acoman. You did not miss anything. The post credit scene was fucking. terrible. You did not miss anything. When it was over, I'm like, I can't

believe, yeah, I can't believe I sat through the credits to watch that shit. I know. I was honestly, like, that was so stupid. It would have been better. It's an Aquaman thing, right? Because that's another one that's still coming. It's like, so Aquaman is still Jasonamoa in the universe or whatever, because, like, he's... That was the

only reason they did that was to say, hey, you should buy a ticket to Aquaman still because it's not pointless in the grand scheme of the DC universe, actually. This is still canon. So just make sure that, you know, you know, still buy the ticket. That's it.

That's so good. It's so people don't feel like it's for nothing. I'm so curious how that movie's going to perform. Because that first Aquam movie made like a billion dollars, didn't it? Like, is there any chance the new one's going to even... Probably. I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah, like... I think people just saw it because Jason Mamo's in it. Maybe people don't even, like, maybe making a successful. superhero movie is just like not even appealing or giving a shit about the whole extended universe and how it fits into the things. And just like ignoring these super fans

because if the super fans were enough to make a movie successful, then the DC universe would be successful. I think you just have to make it massively appealing in terms of like just cast a fucking big actor in it and make it look kind of fun. That's what Aquaman did. It was just kind of fun. That's kind of like the

test, right? And then this movie kind of underperformed. So yeah, it didn't like hit at all. But the thing, like, with George Clooney at the end, it's like, okay, you want to do, like, the whole thing of, like, setting up other actors. Like, it should have been Robert Pattinson at the end. Robert Patton comes in his Batman. I would have been like, oh, okay, so this is in the same universe

as, like, the Robert Patton's and Batman. Maybe that would have been terrible. But don't you know that news, though, about this director is supposed to be doing a different Batman movie with a different actor. Yeah, really? Yeah. Yeah. And Matt Reeves' his trilogy or whatever it's going to be

is its own thing. Which is kind of good, to be honest. I think that's just a guy. Probably not. I had a eureka moment right now. I think I've actually cracked the code. So I was just thinking like, okay, you know, like make it kind of fun, cast a really big actor. And so now I'm thinking like, okay, why was Aquaman successful and not Black Adam? It's because Jason Momoa had his shirt off. The whole, the marketing for the movie is shirtless Jason Mamoa. The marketing for Black Adam was the rock completely clothed. No shirts off the rock. Shirts off Jason Momoa.

Aquaman 2 will be successful if the marketing has his shirt off. That is my prediction. But you get to see Ezra Miller shirtless in this. You see him naked. Yeah, who cares? It was like a whole scene. It was funny. Got like such a weird looking body, I thought.

They, um, yeah, there's some shots in the movie where it's, yeah, it looks really weird. Some shots. It's very, they're very fucking bizarre. Yeah. Oh, it's so good. This is the funniest film. ever, man. Really, they should just not be in the movie.

Just fucking recast. They should have recasted them forever ago anyway. They should have recasted them, and they doubled down by doubling the fucking performances of that fucking actor. Like, come on. Yeah. That's just so crazy about it, too. It's not just one, Ezra Miller, it's two.

Like, after all the shit that came out. Like, now you get to see two of them together. Exactly. Like, it just keeps getting better. Yeah, right. They were, like, so fucked with that decision. They had no idea, like, how fuck they would be. They really should have just recast the flash on, like, Batman versus Superman,

because he was, like, fucking terrible for that part. Like, that's, like, that should have been the end of it there. He's the most annoying part. Yeah, but they didn't, they like, yeah, you're right, they doubled down on it. It just, like, it just hasn't worked out. Oh, yeah, because another detail I read was, um, um, you know there was all that drama with the actor who played cyborg in these justice league movies yeah apparently this flash movie was originally going to have him playing a large part but they couldn't do that they wrote him

out after the actor protested what happened with justice league so it's just like every every angle you look at it like this project was just just sorry they protested what happened with justice league what do you mean what did what happened um you didn't read i'm trying to remember the exact details but the actor um he said it had some issue with No, I think it was more of a Snyder, taking Snyder's side type thing. Oh. Mm-hmm. He was saying he was, like, cut down out of the Justice League movie for maybe, you know,

kind of discriminatory reasons. Yeah. And that's possible, yeah. Because, like, that movie was, like, supposed to, yeah, it's supposed to, like, make his career. Fisher, who played Cyborg in the superhero film accused Whedon on social media of gross, abusive, unprofessional and completely unacceptable behavior. So that's what the drama was about. It was about Josh Whedon.

And so... situation. Is it confirmed that they were gonna, they were gonna have more of a part in the Flash movie and they took that's what I was reading. So that's also just kind of doubling down. Like you want to complain about being written out of movies? We'll write you out of another movie. We'll edit you out of this one. That's so funny. Yeah. You think that's racist. We'll see what we do next. Yeah. We're gonna put two Ezra's in the movie and no black. character. In the Snyder cut, Ray Fisher's in it like a lot more.

He is much more of presence in the movie, a lot more material. Yeah, that's funny. In this movie, it's just like one, it's like one line. Like, where's, where's, um, you know, where's a sideboard? Oh, he doesn't exist in this universe. And like, that's like, then. Bye, bye. Smell you later. Yeah. Pretty fucking funny. Yeah.

I think he made it out fine though. Like, he got out clean compared to like being a part of this shit. It's like, maybe it's a good thing. he's not a part of this Ray Fisher because it's like He does the bullet

Yeah He cast him with Jonathan Majors Yeah exactly Might as well The recast for the guy Played Bain more Recast everybody as Ezra Miller Fuck it, why not

Non-binary They can play every gender Fuck it Just make an entire movie of Ezra Miller See how well it does That's what this was Yeah exactly Being Ezra Miller

Is the film Being Ezra Miller is the film Being Ezra Miller Yeah You guys want to get into ratings? Yes, I do. Okay Yeah, I think I would give it a

It sounds like I've been shitting on it so much I give it a 5 out of 10 out of 10 I fucking loved it yeah Like a 2 and a half stars So what 5 out of 10 I honestly that's what I give it I'm exactly there

Yeah With you man Two and half star like Just write down the minute I think it's better than Batman versus Superman and like Even Black Adam Yeah

I would watch this again, you know, like, have a laugh, you know. Maybe eventually. Yeah. Yeah, not right away, not right away. But just, compared to some of the stuff we've been getting, like this, I was enjoying myself,

definitely not for the right reasons, but I was at least entertained. The worst thing these films can be is boring, like an Ant Man, like a Black Adam, like, Thor, Love and Thunder, like these, God, they're just unbearable, but this is hilarious. We've just got an hour-long conversation out of this fucking mess. It is hilarious

Yeah This crust The threshold Went past boring And into Annoying Unbearable Torture And so I'm giving it a one

Personally I can't This is like This is an easy One out of ten for me This is the worst movie I've seen a long time I can't

I'm not watching this again Which makes it the best movie Nah Not every one out of ten is a fucking Neil Green masterpiece, you know? Some are like Megan is missing one out of ten, you know? Where it's just like so... Yeah, I just reserve one out of tens for like food fight and like that kind of shit.

I mean... This is like literally unwatchable. I just maybe... Yeah, I get this is... This movie really is that bad for me, so... Yeah. I get that. I get...

I do understand. Yes, thank you. Speaking of... Michael Keaton, we all decided it would be appropriate to contrast the flash. I have to be done. With Birdman or the unexpected virtue of ignorance, which is 2014 best picture winner. And also, somehow, my favorite movie of 2014, that doesn't happen often where those two are the same thing. Yeah.

The third Inari 2 Gonzales or sorry Alejandro Gonzalez Inari 2 film that we've talked about on the podcast as a recommendation. We've talked about The Revenant. We've talked about Amorris Peros. And yeah, what do we think? It's a, I guess, spoiler discussion, although I don't even, I guess there's some things you can spoil about the movie. But it's, you know, it's a pretty wild ride. And it's mostly just about the experience and the filmmaking and the performances. Yeah, certainly the plot.

The meta-commentary that somehow gets more relevant as time goes on. It's been like 10 years. Yeah, I was surprised by that. Because I haven't watched this film in a long time. And I was shocked at how just continuously relevant it is with this whole space that we're talking about, especially right after, of course, Keaton himself being in the Flash being in the MCU as the Vulture. And then Morbius, of course, as well. Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Vulture, Vulture, Batman, Batman, Whopper, Whopper. Right. I fucking love this movie. I think it's great. It looks amazing. It was super ambitious, like, one take.

It's not really one take. It's, like, cut here and there. But the extremely long takes in this film, that was, like, the kind of hook of it. It's just, like, really unique. I feel in a lot of ways. like I love like the the fucking drummer it's like the whole score of the movie

you see like you see like the composer of the movie in the movie like just playing in the background it's like it's just like does whatever the fuck it wants and it's very confident and it's like bizarre

fucking reality it creates and yeah I don't know it's like it's also something it's super different for him as well like because a lot of the movies we talk about for him are like extremely violent extremely like really realistic.

Yeah, this is the funniest one. Like, thematically deep. And, you know, so is this. But yeah, it's like a comedy, basically. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. Yeah. About like this washed up kind of guy trying to like get his career back.

And yeah, like all the tie-ins with like the Batman, you know, persona, even like, you know, he's known for playing this character when really he's like much more of a, could, could be a much more like complicated artist, but he's just kind of like restrained and like brought down by this role that like everyone knows him as. Yeah. And it's like really interesting like character study in that way. And it's yeah, and it plays around with like fun visuals and it's just really great. It all really works together like beautifully and so amazing acting. Great supporting cast like Edward Norton, Emma Stone. I think you, uh, I saw in one of your review. I think Adam's review like Emma Stone was a like doing the amazing Spider-Man too

like at the same time which is great she took like a week off to like do this movie and yeah it's like a great fucking movie it shows like she has some range or whatever and not just that but like the the thematic kind of like oh all these actors are doing superhero movies like Ed Norton

was in the Hulk I think before that started too and like there was a line in the movie where they're talking about like who were they were going to get to replace the guy that got hit by the light and they're just like oh no fucking Robert Downey Jr. is doing Iron Man and all these other, like, oh, they're all swallowed up by this machine. And it's like, that's literally happening to the actors in the

movie. And now especially more relevant with Michael Keaton because he's like, he's returning to do it. He's like doing Birdman 4 essentially. Like, right. That's exactly it. Yeah. And it's because they offered him so much money. Like, they make it impossible for you to turn down, basically. Well, I like, I like that it wasn't just, the ideas that they were getting at in terms of like, commenting on actors and like fame and ego it wasn't even really about the money for this character they did mention like oh he refinanced his house or whatever and uh his mortgage and um you know he put everything into the play but it was more about like the self-sacrifice he was making to essentially just feel better than other people which is i mean they just pretty much flat out

said it he's like uh in his internal monologue with birdman saying like this is where you belong above everyone else, like as he's flying over the town. So I like that, you know, even though... I don't know if they tried to get the rights to Batman. I like that they kept it like a flying sort of superhero, like with wings and kept in the thematic imagery of like,

oh, I'm above other people. And like, you know, he has this thing where he's like, you know, I had that moment where I thought, if I died, George Clooney's face would be on the front of the paper and not mine. It's like, what is this self-serving? like ego driven quests that you're on. It's, and how self-destructive it is.

I like that the movie is introspective and critical about artists as much as it is also about critics, which I think not a lot of people realize. Yeah, the whole film is extremely, uh, yeah, self-deprecating, like, from every angle. That's part of what's so great about it. Yeah, that whole, the whole superhero angle is really strong, not just for the commentary of what's happening and has happened in,

Hollywood broadly and how it's just sucked everything up. But yeah, it does just really work as like a metaphor for artists, artistic creation. Kind of manifesting that intense, like, ego balanced with the, you know, that overbearing, like, self-critical inner dialogue that the Birdman character is to this guy. Like, he's simultaneously the, that represents his most successful point in his life and everything he thinks he wants, but it's also the thing that's plaguing him and pulling him down and like, won't let him escape and seems to be pushing him towards the drink towards all this misery. And yeah, it's like he doesn't even really know what it wants. And it is like this

self-serving ego trip. But at the same time, there's this whole angle of this accidental artwork he kind of winds up making. Because that's one of the things with this movie, where I feel like I would almost despise this movie if it ended at a certain point, you know, where it all builds up, it's all these rehearsals, it's like three or four rehearsals, and it ends on that final one with a suicide attempt, basically, and which is great with the applause. I feel like if the film ended there, I feel like that would be such a weak, obvious, just trite way to end it.

but that whole hospital scene where he reads the review and here's what the critic says and the critic does interpret it as this like new form of acting and it's just like yeah like what what what is this space in in like how an audience interprets something and how critics interpret something and how much is intentional and that's like a really complicated concept to explore and think about and I love the way it comes to a head with that hospital scene and the way it comes together um Yeah, I do like the way it explores its themes that way. And showing both sides of it, having the critic in there who's like a really nasty person, like just berating him saying she's going to ruin the play even before seeing it. It's a really, it's a difficult thing because that can go, that can go lady in the water wrong, you know? Like if you want to address the critics, if you want to talk about that in your film, it's a delicate subject matter. And I'm curious how Taranty is going to do it with this film. he's working on. You don't want to sound like fucking M&M like just writing bars like why don't people like my music anymore? Like bad with babbblabby-bah coffee pot. It's like okay. That's what I love about

the framing of Ratatouille and the food critic. It's like that's a really clever way of doing it as well and I feel like this is more like that movie with how delicate it is with it. It's simultaneously like quite obvious and in your face of what it's saying but it's exploring the complexity of what it's trying to say with it. Yeah, it's not about like these obvious plot payoffs or anything like that. It's actually intentionally left quite vague a lot of the time, especially of like how it ultimately concludes with Emma Stone looking up out the window. What does it mean and what does it represent?

Did you read anything about the like original ending, supposedly? Oh. Which is supposed to be this like weird like Johnny Depp. Pirates of the Caribbean thing where like Johnny Depp was going to be there with yeah with like a Pirates of the Caribbean poster in the background it was supposed to end on a gag which apparently they they thought was like

a bad idea at a certain point and I'm so glad they did they were trying to yeah they were going to try and make some point about this like cycle that like all these kind of big actors that get sucked up into this world like get into and it was going to like shift to him or something ridiculous like that and I'm so glad they didn't

wind up going that's a weird that's even weird the ending in the movie and the ending so there's a lot of ways it could have gone wrong

and yeah it does come together very clean yeah yeah super yeah clean and just like entertaining

like I just love the fucking comedy in the movie is so good it's like consistently funny consistently funny lines great visual gags

like him running out in the fucking in his underwear and like time square that's a great like fucking sequence it's so well done it's like

it's so ambitious and it's pulled off like perfectly tense as well yeah yeah and it's a bottle movie set in mostly one location and it's still entertaining like consistently and they leave sometimes go to other locations and just the way it balances all that the lighting's always changing yeah the like i love the time lapse moments like as time passes the camera like still doesn't cut like it just stays in one spot and like and go into the next scene and whatever like it's just like a brilliant like it's just brilliant i think the scene is really brilliant I like that Spoonie.

Yeah. Well, here's the thing is there's a lot of movies that exist that do the, like, oh, we're pretending like this is in one shot sort of thing. Some people have called this movie gimmicky for it, but I cannot disagree enough with that because unlike 1917 where it's like, I don't know, I can't think of any like immediate reason why thematically that that movie should be all in one shot. and also it isn't and it doesn't, you know, like, there's just like a hard, like, ah, I got an un-conscious moment.

In this film, like, the tie-ins that it's making to theater, where that is an unbroken shot, right? So, so we've already got the idea of, like, theater performance and life-imitating art and how anybody who's been involved in a theatrical production will be able to tell you by, you know, watching this movie, like, the, the emotions and, intensity that naturally build up, which are aided by the fact that it's all quote unquote in one shot, they replicate the same pressures and the same stress and anxiety related with live theater performances in a fucking uncanny way. The way that everything builds up and the pressure

intensifies in the story is aided by the fact that you never really get you know, this breakaway kind of like, oh, shot, reverse shot, you know, like, reminding you that it's a movie seeing both characters. Like, there's something happening, whether consciously or not, in our brains, when we're watching something that feels like an unbroken shot,

that even though we know that it's not doing a one-to-one ratio of time, like it's not, the film doesn't take place over the course of two hours. Even though we know that, the way that it's presented somehow still has this, like unbroken natural feeling buildup. Like the intensity is so much more. I feel like the fact that it is shot in this way makes the reveal of the gun being real.

Like a really impactful kind of like stomach churning. What's the word? Like, you know, it makes like a real visceral kind of like uncomfortable moment where like I'm not sure. Yeah, stressful. Yeah. Like it helps the emotions It helps the actors build off of each other Over the course of a scene too

Yeah it makes the performance is stronger too It doesn't like cut away Yeah exactly they're like in the moment Yeah like in the flash movie You just cut to Ezra Miller's face And there's already a tear that somebody fucking squeezed out of a eye dropper on To their face

A lot of like single tears in that movie Yeah a lot of single tears Yeah that was kind of odd In this movie you see the characters like build up their remote Like they're acting You can see them get from happy and comfortable to broken down and miserable over the court. You can see it happening in real time with the character, which is awesome. I love it.

There's so much benefit to it. It just makes you appreciate the performance more, too. I feel like it also just adds an extra, like, it makes the movie more weird and more unique. Yeah. Just that element. It's just another, it adds to the weirdness of the whole thing. And it makes it like a, it gives it a person. Because it's quite dreamlike, yeah, and sort of time doesn't flow in a linear way.

And there's nothing frustrating about that as part of, yeah, the allure. Yeah, that whole flow. But just that choice, like on a technical level, all of the problems that brings that they have to solve, like pacing, it becomes like a different beast when you have to like plan everything out in such a dedicated way, you know, because I guess you have less freedom in the bay, you know, like you can't, the script has to. You can't show it to a test audience and then remove a chunk of the movie that they didn't like. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

And it affects everything to like visual effects as well, like the amount of like mirror shots. Oh, I love it. Yeah. Yeah. There's a yeah, much of painting out a bunch of visual effects you wouldn't even consider. And that's also thematic too, you know, because it is about like self image and reflection. There's like so many mirrors in this. And it's like, okay, but that's also real in the environment, too.

Like, there's a thematic purpose for it and a practical purpose for it. I love when it can occupy both of those needs, those necessities simultaneously. Those are some of my favorite things in movies. That's why I love so much about, like, most of Charlie Kaufman's movies is, like, everything that appears in it fits like a puzzle piece. It feels appropriate and it feels perfect. And it's like, okay, this is there because it needs to be there. And it helps the fact that it's there.

You can look at like even some of the design choices of let's say his his nose being shut off shot off at the end and the bandage is like it resembles like a beak it resembles you know his eyes are kind of darkened too even you know maybe it's a bit overkill even maybe it should have been more subtle but there is this sort of visual synchronicity and as George Lucas once said it's like poetry it rhymes you know yeah his phrasing of that was weird it's like it's like it's poetry so that they rhyme or something. It's like weird phrasing.

Yeah, but even though it manages to make these kind of story beats that can, they can, God, they can go wrong, going viral on YouTube being one of them. That's written in there and it's, yeah, it's one of the themes. And there's that really good monologue he has about how he regrets, um, recording his daughter's birth instead of just being present and like feeding into this whole kind of idea, yeah, of the ego of all. He's like wanting to record everything and be this figure and not being present. And yeah, I just love the way they're able to explore all these really complex ideas, like, just enough.

Yeah, I agree. Michael Keaton in this movie, just to speak like his performance, I thought he was really fantastic in this movie. And he shows a lot of vulnerability, I feel. Like, first of all, he's like walking around in like tidy whiteys or whatever. It's like the first shot of the movie. Like, he's, like, naked. And it's also, like, thematically, he's very naked as well. Exactly.

This idea of, like, you know, his celebrity, his, like, he's known as, like, Batman and, like, all the baggage that has, like, come with it. And, yeah, it is a very personal movie for him and probably for any other people, but especially him in the movie. And it's, like, yeah, it almost, like, transcends his character. And it's just about, like, in a way, him. And, yeah, I love that about the movie. Very vulnerable, personal performance, which is great.

That's what I want. That's what I'm looking for. He really gave it as all, and I will forever be pissed at Ready Edmain for accepting the Oscar for Best Actors that year. Yeah. Yeah, it's a shame. If your speech was anything other than, hey, why didn't Michael Keaton get this award? no Michael Keaton won Stop the count

That's why he's like Michael Keating like Oh right I'm not gonna get an Oscar Let me just go back to be in Batman again Yeah fuck it The Adam Sandler approach Like if I don't get nominated for uncut gems

I'm gonna make so many bad movies Yeah it's like the Tom Cruise approach Like he's not gonna get an Oscar Right well just fucking be in a bunch of blockbusters And make billions of dollars Which is not a bad decision either I feel but yeah I feel like you should have gotten it

for this definitely yeah it was the only performance chance because like now he's voting it in again and it's fine whatever like you don't have to prove yourself he probably got paid more than this entire movie's budget true be in the flesh yeah yeah honestly that's what I mean they make it impossible for you to like turn it down it's like okay like it's probably like a week's worth of work maybe more but maybe like maybe like a month or something I don't know but like it's probably Like, such a small amount of work. Yeah, he wouldn't be, like, present in any of those action scenes, really, unless it's, like, close to his face, you know. Like, it took much less work for him to make that movie than this, and he probably got paid, like, much more for that film.

But, you know, that's art. You got to, like, sacrifice a lot. The only action scene in the flash where he wasn't wearing the bat suit, they had his hair, like, covering his face. Remember he had, like, weirdly long hair? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just like, okay. You've written this to make it so that it's a stunt double, I guess. Yeah, and just like this state of like superhero movies.

And yeah, you're right. Like, it's so relevant and it's gotten worse. Like, since that movie, like, it's just gotten much worse with all these fucking actors. Like, there's like huge talk and like all these act like Anthony Mackey. I think like, you know, there aren't movie stars anymore. You're just like in superhero movies and it's just so oversaturated. like, that like Craven the Hunter movie that's like a sequel to Morbius technically. Like the trailer that just came out.

Yeah. It's like another character. Taylor Johnson, yeah. They're setting up the Sinister Six universe, you know, with Spider-Man. It's like fucking nonsense. Like, it's so crazy like where we have gone since this movie. Like, I feel like you couldn't even make this movie today because reality is like much like stupider than like anything you could write.

Yeah. Beyond parody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like become a parody. of itself. It's hilarious.

Yeah, that's what the flesh is for sure. Yeah. Unintentionally, yeah. Yeah, yeah. What the fuck? I was not aware of Craven the hunter. Craven the hunter. You're not aware of Craven?

I had no idea this is the thing. I'll react to the trailer later, I guess. I'll add that to my head. Yeah, he's Craven the Hunter. Like, he hunts animals. But apparently in this movie, they made him not a hunter. Because that part's too controversial. Like, they made him like a peace-loving, like,

animal lover. Oh. To peel the Lake Pita. He's like a vegan now. Which is like defeats the whole point of the character, but. I digress. That's the side. It's not related.

Yep. That's what we're talking about. It's so dumb. Yeah. What else you have to say? No, I was shocked by that budget when I looked up, 18 million. I suppose it makes sense, I'm sure, despite some of the big names.

were talking here just at work this director I'm sure they're willing to take a little bit less and yeah there is the one location but yeah I would not have guessed that low if I had to yeah it's nuts put my money down yeah exactly mm-hmm fucking Idi-to had like the 2014 and 2050 and like wins best picture and then has like the most successful career movie of his career with the Revenant. I believe he won best director for both. Yeah. I think so.

Two years in a row. Yeah, two years in a row best director. Which he deserves. I mean, that's pretty fucking great. Yeah. Back to back. Yeah, both those movies are awesome. That's insane.

That's actually nuts. It's insane. One year later, The Revenue. A lot of range. Yeah. Absolutely nuts. Yeah. I love this director.

I understand why some people are like, ah, he's a, you know, he's so pretentious or whatever it's like I get it but it's one of those things where it's like it's either going to click with you or it doesn't but even even putting that aside like there's so much talent and coordination going into his films that it's like okay even if you write it off let's say thematically or you don't like the story or something or like let's say you you wish that the references to social media in this film were like a bit less heavy-handed or something like you can't deny the fucking

the talent and passion oozing out of this man's projects like he is so fucking good at what he does all of his films look so fucking beautiful too sure visuals are crazy yeah I might feel that way about some of his other movies but like this one to me just proves that like no

he's just like he made a comedy that's like really funny this is like a great movie I feel yeah like you know I feel like anyone could enjoy this movie it's weird but it makes it memorable, you know. I'm glad it's weird. I'm glad it does all these insane stylistic things

because that makes it like just not so fucking dry and like not so like forgettable. You like remember shots and images for like years after seeing it, like rewatching. I'm like, oh yeah, I remember that. I remember that. I remember this scene. Like Edward Norton fucking flipping out in his underwear too.

And, you know, he's great. It's like so much funny, wacky, shit in the movie that's like like it's almost like shocking at one best picture because it's such a you know it's so out there but also like it's it's like not the kind of movie you expect it to be when like you hear about it like all this washed up actor or whatever's like oh okay but it's like fucking a lot of fun it's so much fun to watch and it keeps you engrossed with like that one take and you know it just moves constantly and it's it's got such a great energy to it and it looks beautiful. I love like the long lenses, like the wide lenses. I mean. Yeah, because you can get more

like a tight space that they're in. Yeah, it's easier to film those things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like great, probably set design even because I bet they had to like move a lot of like walls and whatever to get certain shots and you, you know, you don't notice it at all. Mm-hmm. And yeah, like you said with the mirrors, you don't notice any of that. It's so, it's so great. It's so well done. There's a couple things to think about like production. way is like how fucking incredible the lighting looks at so many points in this film and realizing you can't just like you know you can't just like cut and then set things up behind the camera like they need to be most of it at least like in universe lighting essentially which again i guess

setting it in like a theater production location gives you access to having more lighting options in there. So it kind of works in the context of the film literally and in the context of making the film, right? And then there's also a fun thing to think about with the production how many times the camera just, you know, does a little turn and you see one of the stage hands or one of the production people, one of the crew just kind of like reacting to something or like, and then they're gone in an instant. And I think that not only is that funny comedically, like, oh yeah, there's these other people that are just like, what the fuck? Like watching all these celebrities have their breakdowns and all this drama happening.

But I think it's also so, you know, thematically supposed to kind of remind us about all the other people working on these artistic pieces, whether it's theater or film, that get really little to no recognition, but are just as crucial of a part of these projects happening, right? Like, they're there. And the movie kind of just acknowledges them for a second and then continue. news on to this like egomaniac actor who's trying to become relevant again and it's like that's where all the attention is but like there's so many other people that are there and the movie is constantly you know every every 10 20 minutes or some something there's like a reminder like oh yeah there's like

other people here too you know not just the stars yeah which is kind of cool I like that it does that I've got to shout out the casting of uh Zach Galfanakas in this movie um because I'm just looking at Like, as I'm d. Like, what was, what he was in around this time? I know. Jumping from Hangover Part 2, that really lame Puss and Boots movie, the Muppets movie, the campaign, that horrible comedy, hangover part 3, and then jump to this. And it's like, man, they must have really trusted him as a fit for this character.

And it does really work. He really sells that role. And he's like a, he's kind of the only person who's, how does he phrase it? He's the one keeping it all together. that he's like a, his one friend and he is like a sense of warmth. Just like a nice, like, different performance from him. That, yeah, really works. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I like how, um, coming back to like the soundtrack, I love how it's not, you know, it's dietic, but it isn't. You know, you see the character playing the drums. You even, like, in the bar scene, right, uh, when he's like, having that confrontation with the critic character. You can hear the piano go from like kind of dietic echoey in the bar and then continue as he's walking outside into like part of the soundtrack before the cello comes in and we get that nice

kind of like, you know, his like he goes drinking and has that weird kind of like self-reflection whole sequence. Like I love the soundtrack in this movie. And I think that the percussion and the not just not just the. choice and instrument in the sense that like, oh, they chose to only do drums. But the fact that it sounds so improvised, and it's a soundtrack that feels like it's not necessarily like a score to the film, but it's like a response to the film. It's like actively reacting to things that are happening in the film and the moments and the beats that characters have. It's like there's a person drumming there

that is watching them and just kind of like improvising based on what they're doing like a live theater performance, right? It has the same. It fits perfectly like a puzzle piece, the soundtrack choice. And it was a very bold and unique one to make at the time too. Despite Whiplash coming out the same year, weirdly enough, you know, before that point, there wasn't this focus on like, oh, drums, you know, like they both kind of just got made at the same time.

But yeah, the improvisational nature to it is just so purposeful and it works so well. Yeah, I agree. You're right about like the improvisational, like, nature of the movie, even though I'm sure there was like, there isn't much room for improv when you're doing like a long take movie. No, no, no, not at all. But like, it just makes everything feel like it's improvisational. And I'm sure, like, there's certain beats of like the acting. Like when you're doing takes that long that you just like come up with on the spot, like certain deliveries. And they just like, yeah, stuck with it, kept with it.

Yeah. It does, like, add to the theater kind of feel of the movie. And even with the lighting, yeah. Like, even scenes that, like, you said, like, there's scenes with, like, practical lighting. There's scenes with, like, non-practical lighting that are, like, really well done. Like, they probably had, like, I don't know how you even do that, like, film, like a 360, like, long take without even, like, having any light sources in the movie. I'm sure they were overhead. You get really fast people behind the cameras.

Yeah, that, too. Yeah, it's just like you don't see any crew members. You don't see any. You don't see the shadows. So, you never see the cameraman's shadow or anything? Like, that's really impressive. Yeah, that too.

Yeah. And there might have been some digital trickery in there too to like remove some of that. But not a lot. I mean, it's pretty seamless. There's maybe like one shot with like Michael Keaton walks into the bar. Like that kind of like that cut kind of stands out to me. But that's like a minor nitpick for me. Like, you know.

Yeah, when he was coming back from the bar and he had the key in his hand. that was a weird one. It just like kind of fades to black almost. But otherwise like it feels fucking seamless. My favorite one was Ed Norton and Emma Stone like making out and I guess they fucked in the rafters or whatever. But the camera goes over top of the rafters and down into the rehearsal where Ed Norton is there.

And it's like, okay, well, I didn't see a cut, but there had to have been because he can't run that fast, right? Because nobody can run that fast. That was a really. really cool shot. I loved that. Yeah, that was great. Just the whole Aber Norton character, I think is my favorite character in this. He's fucking great.

What a great role. He's incredible in this. I absolutely love that fight scene with him and Michael Keaton. Like, Michael Keaton gets upset with him because he kind of takes his story, right? In that report. Yeah. And then he spins it round on him

and lies about his childhood abuse. They, like, grapple each other to the floor. That's one of the funniest. hilarious. Yeah, like ping pong type scenes. It's in like the trailer. And yeah, there's like something going on with him to Edward Norton and like his career. Like, because this is after the Hulk and that movie didn't really work out.

I think there was like some dispute. You know, I don't know exactly what happened, but he didn't want to be part of like the MCU and that kind of thing. I don't think. He wants to do more like artistic projects like this. And it's like, yeah, it really shines as just an actor in this movie and he shows his range. and yeah like the fact that like his character's like a fucking doucheback like it's like I don't know I found that really he's quite tense he's so like you know his ego is so like inflated and he's like so full of himself yeah typical method type yeah yeah he's method actor right like the concept of his character is just like

truth at all costs even if it's damaging to everyone right and so it's it's it's it's exploring that as a character type and it's you know an exaggerated version of how certain actors are, right? Because certain actors are like really so committed and driven into their own I guess methods or their own ego even, right? Like, I love that detail

where it ties into his character when they're playing the truth or dare game and he only ever picks truth because he's like, okay, you know, like the truth is always interesting. The truth is like, that's his character. He never does dare. He always does truth. Yeah, I just, I love how that fits.

At the beginning of the movie, he's like meditating, he's floating, internal monologue, bird man shit, and then the Skype call goes off on the laptop. And the way that it's presented in the film and the mixing is like hard left in the speakers, I thought when I watched the movie, like, oh, someone's phone is going off.

I thought, like that was the, but watching it also, even still now, I'm wondering if that was intentional. I'm wondering if that was sort of like a meta, like, audience, you know, social media or, like, internet just, like, interrupting the art or interrupting the audience, or sorry, the artist. Like, it's supposed to be charing. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, like, it's definitely, like, supposed to be charing. Yeah.

It's not only serving a purpose of, like, oh, yeah, his daughter's calling in the movie, but it's also kind of like, oh, you know, like, is technology in, impacting the theater-going experience or like is the audience impacting what films and filmmakers are like we can even go further into this about like think of the imagery of Naomi Watts and Edward Norton and they're taking a bow on stage while they're like crying and arguing with each other and she's like you're a monster and they're pretending to smile and the entire crowd full of people is just standing and applauding at them and they're essentially just applauding at their own suffering without being fully aware of it while the actors are pretending like everything's fine like think about that for a second like that's a that's a great that's a great piece of imagery there and there's a lot to chew on in terms of like what that's saying about the industry and you know actors and our audiences interpret what they're saying too yeah yeah exactly not even realizing like the

suffering that someone's going through and kind of just being there to be entertained. Yeah. There's a lot that just fits in this movie. Also, Andrea Reisborough was really great. Yeah. One of the first things I've seen her in probably. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, like lots of small parts that are great. Yeah. Not the main people. The scene with her and Naomi Watts was really very good. Were that, like, the beats of their performances and how, you know, she, like, leans in for the kiss and Naomi's just, like, completely frozen. She's like, oh, you know, like, like, really accurately portraying someone kind of, like, frozen in shock, like, not sure what to feel, like, in their tracks before being, like, do it again. It's such an odd scene. It's odd, but I, you know.

It's like, but that's so what I love the movie. The first time I watched it, I was like, oh, you purve, you know, like. fucking in the R2, you just want to see the make out or whatever. Like, you always kind of, you always kind of question the director's intention

when you see like, oh yeah, these like attractive women are going to make out now. But watching it now, I'm like, fuck, I mean,

like, there's a, it works in the context of the story. They're both kind of fed up with like the men in their lives at this point. And they're both kind, you know,

they're kind of using each other as like a support system at this moment when the people in their lives that should be, be supporting them or kind of treating them like shit, kind of ignoring them. And they're both, you know, both of those characters are dating egomaniac just trying to make it so that he's the front page when he dies versus egomaniac trying to have this weird obsession

with truth to the degree where he's going to like rape her on stage in the service of what, like a good performance, right? And so you have these like two extreme examples of, just like celebrity in their own bubble monsters, I guess, and they're dating them. Like, yeah, okay, like in the context of that, they would probably just, you know, try other options. But that's what I love about the, uh, the Amy Ryan, uh, character showing up. Yeah.

His ex. Um, where she's kind of, yeah, she represents everything he's lost and everything. He's kind of longing for. Um, maybe the most grounded character. Exactly. Yeah. It's a good way of giving him a bit of backstory without it being like heavy-handed exposition or whatever.

She leaks out just little bits of information about his past life and like why they broke up and why he's in the situation with his daughter that he's in. And his previous kind of suicide attempt he brings out with the jellyfish in the sea and trying to drown himself after getting caught cheating on her and stuff. Yeah, it brings out some honesty in him. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot to, uh, interpret and pick a part here.

This is another film, much like the Flash. You can kind of talk about it forever. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's got an amazing rhythm. I love even when it kind of abandons its own style to try and parody and remind us of the style

of other films. You know, you get the full soundtrack, you get the explosions, you get the CG, you get the mech, a bird whatever Kaiju thing going on almost the CG is like so odd Yeah

So odd in that scene But it's just like To me it makes the movie Like it enhances it It's like almost like Self-referential No it's great I watched that scene

I was like These effects Look a lot better than the Flash They do Or at least they're on the same level It's like 10 years earlier Yeah They do

Yeah true For a fraction of the price Right that's what I mean It's like making fun of those movies Because yeah, we do have movies with like effects that are worse than like the effects in Birdman. Yeah. Yeah, it's like, it's like, you know, even like Black Adam had like Ant Man in the Quantum Mania or whatever. Just like horrible CGI.

It's like and it's like so overkill. Yeah, that scene is like fucking overkill with like the explosions and like fucking crazy stuff. Yeah, it's, it's pretty funny. Yeah. Pimply faced gamers cream in their pants, I think they said. It's like free guy. It looks like free guy. I wanted to be more like that scene.

Why couldn't the whole movie be like that scene? Well, some people got confused. I swear that there were like people that rated this on Amazon or something. Like, I don't know if I'll be able to find this. But I remember seeing when this movie was released, people were like, I thought it was going to be a real superhero movie. Somebody in my chat, like I did a watch-along stream to this. They were like, yeah, my dad brought me to this movie.

We thought it was going to be a superhero movie. And then we like left me. My dad took me out of the movie. That's crazy. So funny. That's like kind of, I mean, that is kind of what it's commenting on. Yeah. Which is great that it's happening.

It's kind of funny. Yeah. It's just like movie theaters are like places for like parents to bring their kids just to like shut them up for two hours. It's like, put some superhero movie on. Yeah, they don't want to like think. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's pretty like fantastic in that respect.

Yeah, I don't have a ton more to say. I just love the movie. I love that. It's weird. I don't even read into it like as much as you do Adam. I'm like, that's just, they make out because it's weird and because I didn't see it coming. Sure. Because it's just like, because it's fun because it just does whatever.

Those are the best movies, though, are ones that function in an interpretive way and also an entertainment way. Ones where it's like, oh, you don't have to force yourself to watch it a second time and want to read into it and be like, oh, I guess like, yeah, sure, there's some like thematic things if you want to do homework. Like, it's a fun movie, and it encourages you to watch it a second time because it's entertaining and it's well made and there's like artistry behind it. And then you can dig into the thematic and hidden deeper meanings and what it's trying to say, the meta commentary if you want. But it's not necessary for the experience of the movie, really. It's just there. Yeah. It's just there because they care, which is great.

Like, those are the best movies for me. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, love it. Yeah, I guess, again, yeah, we could go on forever about this movie, but yeah, doing this and the Flash in one episode is pretty packed, so we might. Yeah. So tie-in. Yeah, wrap up.

Yeah, might want to ramp it out. Yeah, go ahead and give it a rating. There was some, I'm just going to mention a couple lines I really liked before I give it a rating. There was one that was like, look at what's left. I'm the answer to a fucking trivial pursuit question. Like, that's a great way to... That is a great line. Compare, like, relevancy, you know?

It was like, being a has-been or whatever. And then I loved when Zach Galifanakis had, like, kind of like a Tim Hideker moment, and he's like... He's the full Saudi Prince is bringing his wife, and, you know, Martin Scorsese is going to be there. He doesn't even know who that is. Martin Scorsese. I love that.

Yeah, fucking... Great movie. Best movie of 2014, in my opinion. Love it. 10 out of 10. Yeah, one of the best of that year for me too. I'd give it a five out of five stars, same I gave the Flash. You just reminded me of another great, that visual metaphor that Emma Stone whips out with that toilet roll that she'd learn in rehab.

Like contextualizing the ego of humans and being obsessed with legacy, like, this main character. character is, just pulling off that one piece of a whole role to contextualize how long humans have been around for. I'm slightly lower than you guys. I do love this movie a lot, but I'd give it a four-star, a high four-star, for no particular reason. I can qualify. Sure, that's fine.

I just like other movies more, yeah. Yeah, it's fine. Boo. Nice. Oh, we did it. I can't wait for Birdman 2. I felt that. Yeah.

Can't wait for Birdman 2 and 3. Birdman versus the Flash, Dawn of Justice. Ready for a couple questions? All right, question time. Cool. Yeah, let's do a couple questions here from the Saddamas community. Head over to the suggestion thread on the subreddit if you want to leave questions for future episodes, just like Aldian the Red did.

What do you think is the main reason for elemental bombing at the box office? Is it Pixar losing their creative spark or audiences becoming disinterested in animated films that aren't tied to a pre-existing IP? It's not the latter, in my opinion. Mm-hmm. I just think they're boring films that they've been making lately, you know? Like Light Year it was boring. Yeah. You know, like Strange World or whatever it was called boring.

Elemental. I saw Alimental. fine, but I wouldn't give it a glowing recommendation. Yeah, I wouldn't give it like, oh, it's amazing. You have to go see it. Like, go watch it on Disney Plus. I think that's one of the reasons, too. People are so used to these are coming out at Disney Plus, you know?

It looks like a Disney Plus, like, straight to Disney Plus thing to me. Yeah, they'll just wait for that. I looked at the, but 200 million. Right. That's what I mean to these budgets. Like, you're not going to make your money back on a $200 million movie when there's, like, so much competition out there. You know, there's like tons of other shit coming out.

It's like, what? Does it show in the movie? Is it like, does it show visually? It looks good. It's polished, but it's, you know, like, God, guys, like, is there any way to, like, fucking bring it in a little? Like, the Spider-Verse movie said last episode was $100 million. That looks great for $100 million.

The first one was, like, 1890 as well. There's, like, no excuse. Yeah. I just don't understand these investments. Like, you're not going to make your money back on that off some, like, kind of average, you know, family film. Like, it's not bad, but it's, not great either.

And there's so much competition out there. There's so many other movies out that kids want to see, like the Flash and Transformers and Spiderverse and, like, other animated movies. Yeah, the Disney Plus thing, I think, really impacts it. Like, people just wait for it to go on Disney Plus. It's just, like, so many factors that play there. And, yeah, it's just kind of like a whatever concept, you know. I think they're really, I saw like Shay Furles's tweet, I think it was.

they're like kind of like downplaying light year like at this point it seems like they're kind of like embarrassed of it or you know like a lot of those people kind of fired who worked on like year from Pixar fired no no pun intended

with like elemental fire but yeah dude fire um wow dude fire but whenever I see that fucking film

it just makes me think of shot boy in love ago I'm sorry Oh, yeah? Oh, what, elemental. Yeah. Just, yeah, the girl, the fire girl and the water guy. I just can't disconnect it. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Mm-hmm. I don't care how few movies someone watches. Anybody can watch that trailer and be completely unsurprised by anything that it, like, even the most basic filmgoer of all time is going to look at that trailer and be like, I've seen it before. How do you make something that looks so unappealing that nobody wants to watch?

Like, people, you know, even though people gravitate towards things that are more familiar, like, it doesn't look good. Like, the animation looks shit. It's not like, it doesn't even have like a hook

like inside out. You're just doing like, what if, what if water and fire were like Romeo and Juliet? That's it. It's not a great movie. It really isn't a great movie.

It looks like shit. Uh-huh. There's something interesting about that. Yeah, it's super uninteresting. It's just not, it doesn't stand out. It's just not a great movie. Like, if it was great, people, it would find an audience eventually, but it won't. Like, it'll just, because it's not, it's not great.

It's not, it's, you know, it's just like another movie. That really hurt it, I feel. And, yeah, like, on top of all the other stuff we just said. Yeah. Yeah. If only, if it was, if only it was a great movie, if only I could like see it, go like, wow, guys, you know, that movie. that movie's not doing great elemental but it's like actually really good

and you should see it itself like you should go see it in the theater you see it on the biggest screen you can but I can't say that like my little cousin she's like 12 years old she's like elemental I'm like yeah you can see it on Disney Plus

like I can't even recommend it to her you know she's a child you don't need to see it you don't need to see it it's just that's it no it needs to see it you know and it's sad was anyone expecting that

Puss and Boots to be as good as it was, that really spread by word and mouth, you know? Like, I feel like if you just make something good enough. If it's a good movie, people will fucking tell people. And this movie will come and go. It'll do okay or not, but it'll do like, you know, it'll be like in the top. It's doing worse than the good dinosaur, apparently. Which is awesome. Yeah, wow, that's pretty fucking bad.

But I mean, like, it'll be in the top five for like two weeks or three weeks and then it'll go away. Maybe not even that long at this point. Same director as the good dinosaur. They really just keep dumping things. I'm fortunate. They're like, you take this one. He really has to carry

Pixar on his shoulders. He's like, take these awful concepts and like make a movie out of it. It kind of pieces of shit. I think like good dinosaurs worse. Like good dinosaurs worse. Like, good dinosaurs worse. Lightyear is worse. Like those concepts are just so dumb.

Yeah. This one's like, yeah. It's not a great. Like, I'm just so tired of like the blobby kind of like art style. Like inside out and soul. It looks very uninspired. In the same way. way that like the flash is is like a unintentional satire of superhero movies and DC movies like

elemental looks like an unintentional satire of Pixar movies like we've just hit that point where it's just like what are you even doing anymore you're just you're making something that you think people will be expecting to see if they watch a movie that's a Pixar movie you know I guess this probably explains that toy story news or whatever they're making another woman Woody and Buzz are coming five. That was probably their last financial success, right, Toy Story 4, because like, what is it, like turning red, didn't set the world on fire as far as money. I mean, turning.

That's a better movie. That was a COVID Disney Plus release also. Yeah, as a soul, I liked a lot, but I don't know. Yeah, I think it was hurt by COVID as far as money. Yeah. So they're, yeah, they're a little bit behind, I think, as far as that stuff's concerned. Everyone's just going to wait for Disney Plus Because they're used to it

Yeah Mm-hmm You'll be in Disney Plus It will be on Disney Plus in like a couple months Maybe not even that Maybe sooner Yeah Just such a waste

Such a shame Yeah because I love Pixar It's just like I don't know They need to like figure something out Yeah I love what they used to be They just haven't been that exciting For many years

Yeah Well like turning red was good I had my issues with it, but I... Yeah, it was alright. I might even raise my rating out to like a seven. I think that's when I gave it. Seven out of ten. But yes...

That was, yeah, more memorable than some of their recent stuff. I feel like compared to a lot of other kids stuff coming out. It's like, they still make good stuff compared to like the Mario movie, obviously. Like, I do... Elemental was set in the Mario movie. It was definitely better than that. Yeah. But I just can't like give it a glowing recommendation like a Puss in Boots or something,

which I haven't seen yet, but that seems like great. Or Spider-Ver. I guess that's a better example. Like that's a glowing recommendation. Yeah, Speriverse is kind of eaten all these films lunches. Mm-hmm. And even DreamWorks to a certain degree. Like, uh, I do you end on this question speaking off from a herbal coast?

Thoughts on the new DreamWorks film, Orion and the Dark having a Charlie Kaufman writing credit. There's a few images that have just come out about this film. It looks kind of interesting. I was looking up the, like, children's book it's based off. It's got like a cool art style. Yeah, there's potential here. Yeah, I mean, I can't say too much about a movie that's not out yet, but, or doesn't even have a trailer, but yeah. Someone told me that the people that worked on the movie said that they're trying to keep it as close to the script as possible.

And then someone else told me that like it's, it's not even a recent script. Like, he wrote it like a decade ago and then it was just kind of sitting in limbo and now they're finally using it or something. Like, I don't, I don't know what's happening. So we'll see what, we'll see what. happens when it comes out like I don't know if they're going to make a dream works kids movie existential crisis or anything but um you know we'll see what happens we'll see what happens i'm i'm excited to see it i'll buy a ticket you know support my boy last time he had uh writing credits on a dreamworks movie i worked out well yeah yeah fom panda too how yeah yeah um yeah

i'll see it yeah sounds good charlie coughman do you two want to do one more question No, we could do. I mean... I can sneak one more. This one might just be for me and Ralph, though, I'm afraid, Adam, from the double darkness. Have any of you watched Andor? It shares a showrunner and composer with Succession.

It has by far the best dialogue in Star Wars and is the best of Star Wars since the original trilogy. The first couple episodes are slow, but after that, it gets great. What's that? I don't know about you, Ralph, but Matt, I was shocked by how good this was. It's a Star Wars show out. You know, Star Wars?

What? Did I write that question? Because I fucking agree with everything that guy said. It's the best fucking Star Wars show. Or it's the best Star Wars thing since like Return of the Jedi. Or like maybe Revenge of the Sith or like, you know, one of those. It's so fucking good.

I was like watching. Like this is incredible. This is like... I agree. It's slow. Like the first couple episodes are slow. Yeah. It doesn't really reveal its hands.

And then when it starts, when you start figuring out what it's doing, it's like, oh, this is, this is awesome, man. There's like this heist episode, like six, six episodes, and it's so fucking good. It's so, like, exciting. Yeah, Andy Circus is in it. He has, like, a whole arc, like, later on, like, in the later half of the season. That stuff is amazing. It's, like, such a good, like, I would, I said, it's not even such, like a, it's not even good Star Wars show. It's, like, it's just a great science fiction show.

Yeah. But to, like, any standard, like, yeah, I would put it up there with succession or something like that. Like, great music. the acting like, is it Stalin Scarsguard? He's amazing in the fucking show. So great monologues. Yeah, amazing monologues and scenes like that. Like, I would actually recommend it to Adam.

He would probably enjoy it, like, even though he's not a Star Wars fan. It's such a good show. And it's like, you know, it's, like, sandwiched in between all this other, like, Star Wars content that's like junk. But it's, like, really. Really good dialogue. Yeah. It's really well written.

And, like, great characters. And, yeah, I just love the tone of it. And, like, nails out. that like Star Wars dark tone, like, really well. Like, it's like a, really had like a, like a $250 million budget or something. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah.

So, and like, I don't think it's getting nearly the viewers like that, like, that Obi-1 show or whatever did. But I think it's confirmed to have, like, one more season. So hopefully they can just wrap that up nice and clean and just have this, like, little gem in amongst the shit. Yeah. Because it made me want to watch those other shows. shows and the other shows yeah they're pretty shit like or at least mid like the obi one one one's very mid and you know that's that'd be like i don't like you know there's like star wars fans who are like very like i said early like racist or whatever like they very hateful just

people i wish they were just like be happy with like the good stuff because yeah they were like attacking like this actress from uh the obi one show and like ewing mcgregor had to come out or you how do you see ewing ew yeah yeah yeah he had to like come out and say like, guys, can you like not be racist? Like, like, when like the main actor of the show has to come out, it's just like Star Wars fans are like so fucking toxic. And I feel like they've ruined like what it could be. But like when I see something like this,

I have like a spark of hope for like Star Wars and like that their properties and like how they handle it. Because yeah, this is like really good. It's really good and or I'd recommend it to like anybody. I'm watching it again actually now. Yeah, the rest of them like the Bubba. show you can like skip that it's like even a mandolarian i've been watching that but it's fine it's not bad show mandolian but yeah like and or like definitely a step up it's like you know that all that stuff

in the prison there like in the second half like that stuff's really great and i just love the concepts of it and like the science fiction concept and like they're in a prison like if the floor's like electrocuted, like, if they, like, you know, the guards can, like, activate the floor at any time. And they're wearing, like, these boots that, like, make them immune to, like, the electricity, but they can kill the prisoners with it. And, like, like, like, prisoners just kill themselves by, like, just jumping onto the floor, like, at night.

Like, there's no cell doors. Like, it's like a really bittersweet ending. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's so good. Uh-huh. It's, it's really well done, I thought.

And, and, yeah, it's like some great Star Wars content. It's like a building off, building off. building off like Rogue One and that kind of like with the character and whatever Tony Gilroy wrote so he's like wrote the born movies it's got this kind of espionage it's not really as interested in the the fantasy stuff as much it's more yeah that's a good approach to it too I really like that like it doesn't always have to be science fantasy it can like branching Star Wars out into other genres that like makes sense you know they're not like a musical or whatever but like yeah spy it's a more of like a spy show

yeah and it works great I really like the show It was great, great twists and great characters and writing. Yeah, it's such a good one. I'm excited for season two. Definitely. I'm glad we got a question about that.

Because it's such a good show. I'm singing praise for it, like, wherever I can. It's like, makes sense. It's such a good show. So many people require so much convincing at this point for anything to do with this IP because of like just how all over the place it's been.

Right. Everyone's watching the idol right now. I'm like, don't watch that shit. Watch, watch... But I want to. Yeah, the Idol, it's terrible. I was watching more of it. I watched, like, that sex scene in season or episode two of the idol.

It's like, it's been voted like the worst sex scene of all time by GQ. Yeah. Like, they all kinds of like dumb dialogue and I had to like skip to that part because the rest of the episode's so boring. I'm like, what's even going on? It's like nothing happening in the show. Yeah, I watched episode three today. So, like, half the show. It's only six episodes. It's half over now.

Yeah. That's like the funny spark to me. Like, I was reading like, oh, so catch the idol season finale July 2nd. I'm like, what? Like, it's already over, like just started. It's nothing. Yeah, fuck the idol. Terrible show.

Yeah, watch and or. Yeah. Definitely good. Okay. Oh, okay. Watch and or. Yeah, at some point. You would.

Uh-huh. Well, you've seen like Rogue One, so like, you would. actually have it. Oh no? Oh, I thought you, I thought you reviewed that. No. Yeah, you don't even have to watch Rogue One. Yeah, you don't have to.

Just watch Andor, it's funny. You don't have to watch, like, anything else, Star Wars, really, to, like, enjoy the show. I'm still going through my list of, like, my watch list of 2016 movies, and that's been sitting on it maybe the longest. I'm just, like, I'm really just dreading, pressing play on that one, you know? What, Andor? Rogue One. Or Rogue One? Oh, okay

Yeah, I mean I wonder what you'd think of that Your perspective on it Because yeah It could be very like hit or miss I feel Yeah Yeah I like it

But yeah It's like catering to Star Wars fans a bit It kind of open the The floodgates with the CG people thing Oh That I didn't like about it Yeah Yeah

Yeah I think it's like the first big example of that Yeah like the CG Tarkin And like And or kind of like Just works on its own Like you don't have to watch any other Star Wars

content. I think you know enough about Star Wars, Adam, to, like, know what a stormtrooper is. Like, it's just, like, the most basic stuff. The white guys. Yeah, right. That's all you need to know, basically. It's just like a good science fiction show, right? It's not really interested in, like, the bullshit that kind of like the references that, like, drag, like these other shows down. It might say it was cool again to me, which was like, like, you basically do, you know? It's like, actually genuinely cool. We're like that Kenobi show is so dragged down with, like, referencing, like, the prequel movies and hating Christians. and like all this other like you gotta throw this in there you gotta you gotta you know it's like so

bogged down by that yeah and or is really its own thing that's like one of my favorite things about it it just does its own thing it does it really well yeah yeah great show uh unlike the idol i'll be the judge of that yeah i'll be so good bros i'm so hyped to see you the weekend mr weekend fan of it yeah ladies and gentlemen the weekend um all right I guess

there's a film recommendation and I'm just kind of like struggling to figure out which one I I'm I've got like a few here maybe you can help me narrow it down do you want me to recommend something I've seen before or something that I haven't seen before do something you haven't seen before do something

do something crazy yeah you want to do you want an American movie or a Taiwanese movie yeah you could do Thai I mean All right We're gonna We're gonna watch Our first Edward Yang

Film on the podcast I think it's Taiwanese I hope I didn't get that wrong But I'm not familiar with him But everybody's telling Has to watch them Edward Yang I'm gonna pick the shorter Of the two

That everyone's telling me to watch The one that's three hours And not four hours We're gonna watch Yee a one and a two Directed by Edward Yang There's a criteria Syrian Blu-ray for it, I believe.

And, uh, yep, if you don't want to be spoiled for Yi-Y-Y-Y-I-E-Speas-Y-I, um, year 2000 directed by Edward Yang, um, who, if I click on his profile, oh, he was born in China. Okay. I don't know. Oops. Well, no, because he, okay, he's in, he's one of the leading artists of Taiwanese new wave.

So we'll figure out, okay. I think I'm good here. All right. Maybe he like immigrated to time longer. Yeah, me, yeah. Anyway, if you don't want to be spoiled. Directed by Yang Gang, watch it before the next episode.

These episodes come out every two weeks. You can listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com signing up for premium. It's $2 a month. You can get these episodes early. and support the show. Also, patreon.com slash sardonicast. You know what I love about our podcast name?

I can say it, and I don't feel like I have to spell it. I feel like people can just, like, figure out how to spell it when I say it, you know? Sardonicast. It's spelled exactly how it sounds. Unlike a Philirian and the city of Ralph Adam and Alex. Yeah, I mean, like, I really fucked over myself

with my gaming channel name, didn't I, you know? Like, Adam plays, like, not. ADU M-P-L-A-Z-E. Go fuck yourself. All right. All right. We got merch. Link in the description.

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Bye. Bye, everybody. Bye. Thanks for listening. Yeah.