Sardonicast - Sardonicast 147: The Idol, Oldboy (2003)

Episode Date: September 18, 2023

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Buy Sardonicast T-Shirts, and other merchandise at https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast. Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Fan art: https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/10a8h7g/i_redrew_avengers_endgame_buts_its_sardonicast/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/1678ved/portraits_of_the_boys/   Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 4:14 The Idol 1:04:18 Oldboy (2003) 2:00:37 Questions 2:25:06 Recommendation + Outro

3, 2, 1. Even though I'm no better than a beast, don't I have the right to listen to Sardinacast? Hello, everybody. I'm Adam from your movie sex. How's it going? Nice. Yeah, I'm Alex from I.E. And do you usually talk that way?

I mean, I would hope that, you know, no matter how immoral and unethical I am, that I would still have the right to listen to Sardana cast. I feel like that is one of life's basic necessities that should probably be covered under some sort of governmental program to help those less fortunate. If we could get a government deal on the premium subscribers, everybody gets one premium subscriber and then we just get the money for that, you know? We're really solving the human condition of here, huh? I think so. I think it would be beneficial for the world. I think a lot of problems that we see, you know, socioeconomically, morally.

I think they would just disappear overnight. So we should get on that. Yeah, I think you're right. Have you ever thought about just how insane some of these government contractor relationships are? Like they literally can just charge whatever they want and because they have a contract with the government. There's like, I've heard about it from friends that work in certain industries like the transit system in Vancouver. they're like, okay, so in order to fix these transit ticketing machines, you need a specific type of battery that you could find on Amazon for like a dollar, but they're contracted through

this specific company where they are charging $100 and they're just marking it up because they have a contract with the government. I don't think people realize how many instances of that exist all throughout every layer of government in pretty much every country where you have a government contractor just charging way more than they should. Oh my God, there was a huge scandal over the, there was an app that was made for COVID tracking in Canada. Oh, you had a scandal over that as well.

There was a huge one here too. Yeah, like a big one. I think there was a couple billion that spent on our one, even though Germany was offering their code for free. Yeah. Like people figure out the numbers and they're like, wait, how did it, how did it take a billion fucking dollars to make this app that doesn't work? Like, where did that money go? It's a big fucking scam.

And it sucks. Yeah. And then, and then, you know, all of these issues that exist within government, then people go like, oh, government doesn't work. Therefore, we need to privatize everything. It's like, oh, shit. Like, you're going to run into the exact same problem. Like, it's so frustrating. We need better accountability.

No, I swear they just add a couple zeros to the end. There was a recent one near me where there was like some kind of pretty basic road works where they put like a little notch in the road and put a sign up and it costs like millions of taxpayer mindset. Well, why? What are you doing? No good reason. Where are you putting it? Yeah, yeah. Because the society is so lulled that we don't know how to hold people accountable and our representatives accountable.

And so then, you know, we're asleep at the. fucking wheel and we're all just kind of complacent. You know, we got TikTok, we got McDonald. We got TikTok. Most people are like, what, one paycheck, monthly paycheck away from destitution or? Yeah. That's a bit more of a focus. Yeah, you'd think that would be a fucking wake up call.

I was talking with my roommates literally yesterday about how much money you could make doing crimes. It's like, people wouldn't be criminals if it wasn't entirely lucrative and then you have so many people that are just like, you know, they're not criminals, you know, they're not criminals. They're doing exactly what they're told to do, but they're making a shit income. Everything's getting so much more expensive. There's a rent crisis and, oh my God. If only they had a Sardonic as premium subscription, it would be fine. Exactly. Speaking of moral, ethical, very super okay and not weird pieces of media, the idol. We watched this one. I didn't watch this one. I didn't watch

your video yet. I was waiting to have this conversation and I figured I'd watch it after. But I love that that kind of inspired you to create a video on your I Hate Everything channel. Big comeback for the idol. Yeah, I haven't done one on a TV show for a while. But man, I was, I don't know about you, but I was baffled when I was watching this. My expectations were already low from kind of the buzz and like hearing about it being like half of being scrapped and reshot and all this. but I'm kind of, I kind of like euphoria and I was curious like Sam Levinson had taken over and like, what was this going to come together like and man, holy shit. Yeah. Like an embarrassing, like I am so curious what like your overall takeaway of what this show was trying to say in the end was because like it throws a lot of stuff out there that seemed to kind of conflict with each other.

And my ultimate like interpretation front was like it doesn't really know or it it can't Maybe attempt something, but it definitely does not come together in a way an intended way Especially with how like the songs have taken off on TikTok and it's like this weird I don't know it's like criticizing the music industry at the same time it's weirdly romanticizing it Like there's a whole romanticization angle the weird Exploitation angle there's a a lot of stuff it's thrown out there and definitely not nailing and I mean first and foremost it's just it's so boring and repetitive like do you agree on that like holy shit like it nothing happens yeah there was one

episode where I was just losing my mind like just fucking do something I think it was the episode it might have been like three I don't remember yeah episode three my notes are holy fucking Christ this episode feels like five hours long despite it being the shortest at 45 minutes in all caps that was my oh that might was that the one where there was Most of the episodes of them kind of just sat around a dinner table talking. Like outside. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, mm-hmm. It's insane. And what's so funny is, um, correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that this was

originally supposed to be six episodes and then they, they cut it down as it was being released because of poor reception. Yeah. Well, there's conflicting stuff on that. There was definitely, I think, six episodes planned with the Amy Simets version. Fascinating. But yeah. I'm not sure if they, if they cut stuff out on the fly, that. much or if that was more just when Sam Levinson took over, maybe they scrapped an episode or edited a bunch of stuff out or something. So what was the story behind that? Basically, she had a version and then the weekend didn't like it and then they just

completely scrapped it and did something else. Is that- Basically, yeah. There aren't like any concrete sources that I could find properly explaining it. But yeah, from what I could gather, there was some kind of creative clash with the weekend and Amy Simex. So she divided. Oh, yeah, maybe they can settle it in the ring for creator clash three.

Amy Simez versus the weekend. Yeah, because I found out, like the cinematographer was the same from Euphoria, but you would never guess. No. Not at all. But it's similar crew with how it came together. And I assume that's just from the nature of taking over a project that was 70% done and then having to scramble something to that makes everyone happy. Yeah. It was like shot at the weekend's like own house. He clearly had like a lot of involvement in this like he's crazy. It's his passion project. Writer. It's his baby. It's a big turn and like it's crazy like it was this. It was it. It was his butt baby. I don't know what he was thinking. Thinking he could helmet this way, you know? Narcissism. I was I say it like towards the end of my video like man, even if he really wanted to tell this story, why did he have to star in it?

like surely if you if you cared about it this much and all the insight he has could he not hand the baton over to like an actor who could tell the story for him or did it have to be his face had to be him he's a star boy yeah you can do anything he is a star boy he's a he's a he's a star boy well i did before like making my video or whatever i'd underestimated the popularity of the weekend i'm not like a big fan of his or anything i've heard a couple of his songs i've never sat down and listened to a weekend album then i go and look on spot of and he's probably like the biggest pop star in the world based off like the numbers on there like he's in the top ten yeah he's like a Drake baby or something yeah he's like I think

he's Canadian he is that's right uh and Drake yeah yeah there's an interesting uh very corporate artificial kind of really lame music scene coming out of Canada and infecting the rest of the world uh yeah what's the deal thanks Ontario I don't know it's just it It's one of those things. I don't know how to explain it. We have a lot of arts grants, and we have a law that a certain percentage of artists and content that you hear on the radio or television has to be Canadian content, which is weird and like overly protectionist, but it creates this weird scenario where there will be some

artists that are just huge in Canada and not anywhere else. and then alternatively it'll also create scenarios where you know like nickelback and Justin Bieber will just fucking skyrocket and then get played a lot of other places it sucks because the entire population of Canada is less than that of California and there's only so many artists in Canada and then within that there's only so many talented artists in Canada obviously there's not none we were just talking with a really talented Canadian artist last episode on the podcast. You know, it's not like they don't exist, but it's very unfortunate what people decide to

promote and share. I guess you could say that about any country or any genre, any medium, but Canada's got this weird particular one, I feel the Canadian rapper or singer hip-hop-ish scene is a very, Drake gets made fun of all the fucking time. In hip-hop crowds, he's the butt of the joke like everywhere. So the weekend is just kind of an extension of that very peculiar character. So this is a spoiler discussion, everybody, just in case. I started watching episode one and I was doing it as a watch along on my channel.

So if anybody hasn't seen it and they want to watch it with my comment, which might make it more digestible go to the YMS watchalongs channel You'll find me watching and commenting on all five episodes and this is one of those things where I knew I was saving it for one of those because of how shit it looked in the clips people were posting on Yeah X and It was immediately infamous huh? Yeah Immediately. Yeah Even before it came out.

Yeah, it seemed like something that would be fun to riff on. And it was, but it was like one of those car crash scenarios where I couldn't look away. And I binged the whole thing in one night, even though that was not my intention when I started episode one. I was like, okay, I'll just watch an episode. He'd see how it goes. I finished the whole thing in one night. I stayed up. I was like, we got to see this through.

Like, what the fuck is this? and yeah it's very hilariously pointless while trying to have a point very conflicting and confused seems like it's trying to be several things at once and even if it is a singular vision like I don't know how many people's visions it was

there just seems to be no cohesive presentation or through line or you know the pieces of the puzzle don't fit it's it's like you've got several different puzzles and then it is like It's structured around this like, this twist comes up towards the end, right?

Like in that last episode where they like pull the rug from under and to try and like change the dynamics. You think about like, oh. I think I called that. Also, the weekend, the weekend wasn't in control this whole time. It was actually Lily Rose Depp pulling the, being the puppet master the whole time. And it was like, what the hell? And then just like undoes all of this like, because everything previous is this kind of toxic relationship they have and they building the, the weekend character up as this like infamous pimp who's got like a name for himself and

is kind of a troubled character and maybe someone she shouldn't be fraternizing with but then it kind of turns around at the last second to be like no this is actually kind of like a love story and it was all about that side of it and the love triangle and the beefing with each other and love wins in the end yeah why like when they were getting together I was like what the fuck are you trying to do like getting back together at the and let alone the fact that there is absolutely zero chemistry between these two characters. Oh my God. They don't have any chemistry at all.

None. Absolutely. No, yeah. It's the most awkward attempt at a relationship displayed on screen maybe ever. Which kills the whole concept immediately for this entire thing to even work remotely. The lead two would have to be better actors and to have some chemistry because, yeah, there's a lot of bad dialogue here, but I feel like it could be sold better. by better actors, but man, this is like the perfect concoction of shit, like the way it comes together. Yeah.

That dialogue, man. Like, it's, that's what keeps that, that's what keeps entertaining. It's just the level of dialogue and how, like, porny it is and just so unsubtle, you know, and like the, the most obvious ways whatsoever. That's what you get when you give the weekend Cartet Blanche to do whatever he wants. Which is how they said it in the show. And it's one of those things where it's like, the rest of it's so bad that you have to think, was that an intentional joke?

Because the pacing of the editing didn't make it feel like that. And the rest of the show and the context within the show, it's kind of impossible to tell. Like, is that just how the weekend thought it was supposed to be pronounced and nobody corrected him? And then, you know, I don't know. Cartet Blanche. Yeah. And it can't figure out if it's like, yeah. Because I was reading that as a joke, but then it just makes.

it more confusing because it's like they kind of end up endorsing that character in ways but they also condemn him it's a man that that character i think she's called destiny she like has that whole a bunch of sit downs where she's like getting real with characters and finding out the truth about the weekend and his backstory and just how serious it got and how violent it got and his tumultuous history and and it seems like it's building to towards that more of a conclusion where it's like They need to separate in some form in order for Lily Rose Depp to get over the death of her mom and gain some autonomy back into her life. But yeah, it just doesn't really go that direction at all. It just winds up going the inverse direction of what you'd expect and what would even really make sense unless they're trying to do this whole.

Yeah, isn't this like a sad tragedy of how this toxic relationship she's got trapped in this situation? But it's not really framed like that in that conclusive episode. It's more of like a F the producers. This is like real love. And we're so talented. We made it. We made it. We made it.

Yeah. It's a success story about the industry that we're trying to criticize at the same time also. Yeah. I think it was trying to do a bit of like a whiplashy type thing with that. Yeah. That ending that's like, yeah, kind of comes out the blue and I don't know. It's like a moment where things change and new rules are established and new character dynamics come out. but it just, I don't know.

I think it fails as a commentary on the industry. Ultimately, it fails on as being a love story. It fails on the basics of being a drama even. Like it or the musical angle as well. It fails at being coherent. Yeah, yeah, straight up. Or relatable. It's one of the most unrelatable pieces of media I've ever seen in my entire life.

Yeah, yeah, true. Like who's supposed to get anything out of this and what are they supposed to get out of it. Who? Who and what? Why did you make this? Yeah. Like, who do you think the target demographic is then? Because it must be just the weekend fans and Lily Rose Depp fans, because I found out, like, she has a huge social media presence. She's, like, famous on TikTok, because I guess she's like a model and is obviously Johnny Depp's daughter. So I don't know what they were planning with this. And if you go on Spotify and put her name in, yeah, you can see like the songs from the show.

Oh. Which they're like officially released and they have a ton of listens and a viral on TikTok. And people be like, oh, the show really sucks. But man, these songs kind of fire type of thing. Like what? So you've just done the inverse of like all the criticism of this horrible industry. And then you're using it as like a platform to launch the NEPO. Yeah.

The NEPO album. The star of yoga hosers Yeah, that's the only other thing I've seen her in Because there's a bit of like When the idol dropped Like originally there was a bit of like debate or whatever on X Or it might have still been Twitter then Debating Lily Rose Depp's acting abilities

Because there was the crowd saying that Oh, she's just never been paired up against someone who can act So that's why you've never seen her true potential No showing clips of that movie where she, it's like a Renaissance movie where she acts against Timothy Shalame. Tim Jam. It was like Tim Cham, yeah. And it was just like a, like I watched the clip that people were putting out there

trying to prove her acting ability. And it's just kind of like, this kind of is the same thing, man. She's got that model thing going on where it's like a very, a very modely performance. It's all they see is the model. And yeah, even that aside, I just. the material there's not enough there there's not enough going on that chemistry is not there the it's just it is embarrassing it's an embarrassing project all around and this and the reaction too

from like have you seen any of the weekends like uh social media response to it like on instagram and twitter he's uh he said all sorts about it kind of like uh coping about it i'd say like posting these cringy comparisons of like scarface and like the the framing being similar of his character and certain scenes and whatnot and kind of doing the whole like yeah replying to every single person about the idol and clearly being sensitive about it and it's like it is his butt baby at least stand by it yeah but at least like something that made me like Tom Holland a bit more recently he was like he was in this interview about I think it was an apple TV show he's on And he was very candid, just like, yeah, I don't think people think it's very good or whatever, but I was in it and I accept that.

Is that the one where he's a gay boy? It is the one where he's a gay boy. That's right. Yeah. I haven't seen that yet. Yeah, me neither. I probably went. Yeah, what do you think of the music then?

Because that's like a big part. There are so many scenes where they're trying to capture that whole, you know, that creative spark lightning in a bottle. We're in the studio. We've got the producers there. people are riffing on the piano and then they have these scenes that are framed as like, oh, it's the moment they've found that riff, they've found that hook, they've found that song that's going to get her back into the zeitgeist. It seems so weirdly artificial.

Like the music itself, like maybe completely detached from the show is like fine, I guess. Nothing to write home about, you know, it's poppy. It seems like it would appeal to. some sort of mass audiences of youngish people, maybe. But the way it's handled in the show, it never felt like any of the scenes where they were creating music was any sort of genuine representation

of how music is created. And I mean, maybe they were trying to subvert that at the same time. Like, what do you do? He like fingered her pussy while she was singing. I don't remember. He had that, he's like, no, you gotta sing good now.

you gotta be having sex at the same time. Like, okay, like, is that supposed to be powerful or meaningful or scary? What am I supposed to feel from that? It just feels like weirdly explicit for the sake of being explicit. And maybe the weekend was just really horny when he wrote this. And he just wanted to do that. It felt like self-insert material to me, you know? Yeah.

It's like, oh, I've got to make sure I'm banging Lily Rose Depp and the majority of the scenes I'm in. because of course I'm because I'm the weekend. That's just what would happen. Of course. I'm the weekend. I'm the guy. So at all, okay, so let's, let's, I'm, I kind of want to do a plot recap. I don't know how like this might take one minute.

I don't know. I have a couple notes in each episode that can kind of give me a clue. So I watch this probably, I don't know, two months ago or something. Yeah. Yeah, my notes are from July 9th, so month and a half ago. when we're recording this. So she's doing the modeling, and then there's a drama because they're like,

there's a picture with come on your face. It's on the internet. Yeah. We don't know who took it. And then it's like, oh, now her career is going to be known for having come on her face. And then they spend the rest of the episode.

She's like dancing. They're like, oh, it's such a beautiful homage to Brittany that she's doing right now. And they're talking about this insisted, importance that they're trying to, that they're trying to project onto the audience to make you feel as though what you're watching is so much more special than it is, but they're really just talking about it. Yeah. And it's not special, you know?

Like, could you, you know, the opening dance scene and climax, you don't need to be told by other characters watching the dance scene that there's something special there. You can just get absorbed into it. You can just watch it and appreciate the fucking choreography. and the tone and what it's going for and what it's doing and the cinematography that was all in one shot and it kept going for so long after. Yeah, that bug me so much. They do that a lot with like the producer characters especially when they're observing like a new song or whatever they have some dialogue like, are you seeing this? Yeah.

This is amazing. Like all this kind of stuff. Exactly. And it's so insisted. And it's like they have to tell you how to feel because what you're seeing is not all that special. And then even when they tell you how to feel, it's like, am I supposed to be feeling this? Is that what you're going for? Is that what you're doing?

Yeah. So a lot of really boring shit in the first episode, a lot of repetitive nonsense. They kind of vaguely set up. We're introduced to her at a time where she's like just, she's in like a really bad headspace. She's like had to pull off one of her latest tours or cancel it in some form. So she's in this low point after her mom died who was. her like mentor so that's how they explain how the weekend was able to get in there to begin with because he owns this cd club that he insists she goes to and he manages to what we think

kind of get in control of her or at least in contact with her and yeah to immediately fall for him so yeah so she goes to a club and then the weekend who owns the club is like hey are you the come face girl and then that's how their relationship starts And she completely just ditches her friend. She goes to the club with one other person, played by Rachel Senate, who I love, but she seemed absolutely confused as to what she was in. Yeah, yeah, she's normally great. She was like the comedic relief character, but it seemed like it was because she thought she was in a comedy and nobody else thought that. Which must have been in pretty funny direction.

Yeah, just a complete waste of that actor. There are a few wasted actors in this, but she's probably the biggest one. Especially if you're doing like a satire commentary. She's really great at that. Yes. You know, like they totally squanded it. Yeah, Bottoms is out this week. I'm thinking about catching it.

I don't know. She co-wrote that. Yeah, I'm hearing good things. Yeah, so she, Lily Rose Depp just ditches her friend for no reason, just to make out with this weird club owner who's like the greasiest, most disgusting looking guy. Yeah, that's the word greasy is. He's greasy. They like purposefully wrote that whole rat tail thing in, I think with this reshoot version.

Because there is like, there are old set pictures of that original version that you can find out there. And he looks just way more normal, like the weekend. You know, like they went in on this costume design for some reason. And I think one of the episodes even, like the episode titles references the whole rat tail standing. It's like, why? Are they like trendy in L.A. or something right now? I don't know. It's just

you're so off-putting. I just never buy for a second that she'd even look in this guy's direction. Yeah. Episode two, they're in the weekend's house. She's showing off her song. It kind of sucks.

He puts an ice cube drink on her pussy. Just because I don't remember why. Oh, that's the one where she's doing the rehearsal and she has to keep doing it again. again and she ends up hurting herself. There's like that excruciating rehearsing. Yeah. And her feet get all bloody and yeah.

Yeah. And the, she's doing a dance number for a music video. And the commentary from the other characters who are on set are saying things like, are the male dancers outfemming her? Do they seem too gay? Yeah, they're male dancers in a music video. Of course they're going to seem gay.

What are you talking about? You act like you're not in this industry. What are you talking about? about. Every fucking male dancer and every fucking music video seemed gay. Most of the humor slash commentary is kind of relegated to those like producer side characters. They were like really snarky, really cynical like Hankers area has like, you know, and Eli Roth even comes in as one of them and they've got, you know, the typical kind of greedy producer type lines. It's like the most obvious part of the commentary, I'd say. But it just doesn't gel with anything else.

It's not a consistent tone. It's like what you probably could have made this way more over the top way more exaggerated and everyone is like more of an unlikable caricature but then you can't spin around and try and have like a emotional resonance to the heart of that like it's just yeah so confused they tried any consistency the entire episode she was like she was like my mom died of cancer we didn't show it also she beat me and I'm sad that I have to dance and it was very over dramatic yeah big time that was that was another thing that was theorized to have been cut from that original. It might have been the sixth episode, actually.

There are all these images that came out from that original version, the Siamets version, that seemed to have a lot of scenes with a young Lily Rose-Dup character and maybe showing the backstory a little bit and a flashback of some kind to do with when she was young, which probably could have helped cement or at least give this a bit of direction. Yeah, because we don't get any context. She kind of just insists it and we never see anything. And then so immediately the entire time I'm like, is she lying? Because we don't see it.

You know, it's like fucking just the most obvious thing in the world. And they try to do it as a twist on the last episode. It's like, okay, well, I was thinking that the entire time. So not really a twist. Basically, one of the only things that makes anything make any semblance of sense, even though it's still ridiculous. Yeah. At the end of episode two, we find out she likes breath play. The weekend just knew that, I guess.

Yeah. That's a very important bit. Oh, is this the one with the famous line with the, I want you to stretch your beep? I don't. You know, it's like close up on his face and he's like whispering that line trying to be as hot as possible. There was, yeah. The funniest thing you've ever seen. There was some cringe shit. I wrote down a timestamp. for when he's saying, oh yeah, just like that baby.

And then in all caps I say, oh, God, the cringe. The weekend is so fucking bad. And that was episode two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the pacing is just so slow. Like, no matter what you were trying to do with the writing, certainly at some point, they could have realized, wait, nothing's happening.

Like, by the end of episode two, you have, you know, what would be in a normal show the first 20 minutes, not the first two hours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you... There's no urgency or, like, really any ticking time element. There's no... They're just dawdling. No tension.

Dicking around. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's utterly glacial. Like, nothing really happens. Nothing. At all. You could easily cut this down to, like, an hour of 20, probably.

Yeah. Yeah, the entire thing. Yeah, yeah, I reckon easily. Yeah. Episode three, they go to a store in the weekend's, like... like, you see that girl? Is there anything in the store that's as beautiful as she is? It's like, okay, you're such a turd.

Where, yeah, he fronts up against that guy. Yeah, if you're selling things in the store, like, what do you say? There's nothing as beautiful as she is. Or, yes, we have lots. Like, what is that supposed to? You're just torturing that customer service worker. And again, it's like, what, you're trying to make him, you're obviously trying to make him look bad and like an asshole.

But, like, where do they take that? far as the character. Nowhere. He's so static, yeah. He doesn't really learn or change or doesn't really impact the other character. Like it's like, what? Okay. It's just so we can try and show off how aggressive and intimidating he can be for his lady.

Oh, my God. So here's an important one that I feel kind of is representative of some of the issues I have with the show as a whole. And like the main character in the commentary on art. So halfway through episode three, which is like the shortest episode, there's a girl character who seems to be like as the show progresses. She's shown as like, I guess, the pure artist. You know, the younger character, I think is who says this. Oh, you're talking about the, um, the K-pop star.

No, I'm talking about the one who gets the, uh, the pep talk from the large, uh, black woman. Um, about, oh, yeah, I know, you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she just seems like so much more naturally talented. But I think this is the same character. I didn't specify my notes. But at halfway through episode three, this character has to explain to the main character who is a professional musician with backup dancers and like a label and all that shit.

Who has to explain to her, you can take sad life experiences and transform them into art. And it was like seen as some sort of revelation. Like, why would you need that explain to you? What are you, what have you been doing as an artist this entire time? What is your art? What are you, you're not expressing anything? And it's like, so, so shallow. So shallow.

Like, how don't, you're supposed to relate to this character? What was her whole attribute? She was like, taken in by the weekend and it's revealed. She like, she's asked her age and she slips up and she's younger than she says she is. And that never really comes to her head or anything. Again, this is like, yeah. It's just more for the pile for the how bad of a person the weekend character is. So they just keep piling on this evidence of like why you shouldn't like this guy.

Yeah. Only to then turn it around at the end and be like, aren't you happy that this love story true love wins. Yeah, it's like, what? No, this guy is like a monster. Yeah. Always return to your abusers. Always go back to your toxic relationships because there's nothing else outside of that.

They're trying to have like the ironic slump where they're like on on the stage with like thousands of people screaming for it and it's supposed to be like an ironic celebration. I don't know. If that was the internet does not come through. Yeah. It does not come through at all. Yeah. So they talk at a table for what feels like five hours, but it's only the end of episode three. Which is 45 minute long episode.

Yeah, they have like it's really important that that whole table thing. Yeah. Yeah. deal. Really? Uh, not respectful with our time at all. Oh, no, no, no. Not self-aware.

That's where they kind of, they establish, uh, the Troy's Savan character, who is like a former YouTuber apparently as well. He just like stuff on music on YouTube. There are few of those in the cast. That's why I mentioned the, the K-pop star as well. Oh, yeah. She's like a huge, in one of these huge K-pop bands. Yeah, and this guy, uh, um,

Moses, Sumney as well does music. There's like a bunch of like, yeah, pop stars in the cast. But this, they establish in that episode, this guy, Troy Savan, is like Lily Rose Depp's long-term friend who kind of feels like he's been slighted by her success and she only keeps him around to kind of put him down. That's where they kind of establish that and you get the funny torture scene in the following episode. Yeah, episode four.

I put a pin in for a second. Yeah. Yeah, so in my notes I have at the beginning, well, 11 minutes through it, who knows what happened in the first 10 minutes. The first good scene in the entire show was the black woman kind of instructing the random cocaine child how to properly sing. And they had like a really nice conversation and it felt genuine and it felt pure. And I was like, damn, like if the rest of the show was like this could have been cool. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Lily Rose Depp is recording The weekend is like She needs to sound less boring I know what to do I'm gonna fuck her while she's singing So she's not a real real artist You have to trick her into performing properly By fucking her And it was really cringe worthy

And disgusting Yeah it is disgusting They do that a few times don't they He's like putting blindfolds on her And trying to get unique sounds out of her while recording It's so stupid What are we supposed to get out of that? What are we supposed to get?

Yeah, it's like 50 Shades level. It's just like, yeah, it just feels like stuff cool porn, you know? Yeah. Yeah, so later in this episode, they have kind of like a fake out horror scene where the weekend is like sneaking up on the gay shower boy. It was like, oh, I'm sneaking up, I'm going to kill you. And then later they put a shock collar on him and get him up him. Yeah, the torture scene.

It's because he didn't tell other people that her mom was abusive Even though she turned out not to be and so they torture and kidnap this character that they're all they have this weird fucking I don't know commune like this cult Yeah I think it's supposed to be a cult but they do like a really bad job of Just communicating that fear angle because then after that scene that character's pretty much indoctrinated into the cult and then it's like a he's a lackey after that Yeah Like they kidnapped and tortured him and then he's like chilling with him like their friends after that for some reason. Yeah.

Yeah, he's loving it after that. Yeah. Yeah. Then there's the love triangle element where it devolves into this boring Lily Rose Depp versus the weekend because that that that K-pop character comes into the equation and Lily Rose Depp gets jealous of her. So to get revenge. because the weekend used to be with this K-pop girl so then her coming back and being all cutesy in front of Lily Rose Depp makes her jealous

so then she calls up her ex who happens to be acting in a superhero movie that's coming out so then she organizes for him to be framed yeah which is very bizarre that whole like fake framing like oh you raped me here's the evidence it's a photo

that we took on the stairs, which should have some metadata in it to prove when it was taken, by the way. They never addressed that. Yeah. Which should have, you should have that, you know, if you want to just prove where the photo originates.

Yeah, whatever. Yeah, but it just amounts to nothing. We got Eli Roth showing back up in the show, and they're all performing in front of these record executives, these big wigs at the music company. And on the last episode? Yeah, we're on episode five. There nothing else happened in episode four according to my notes.

No, no. No. No, nothing really did. No, this whole sequence, man, is one of the most excruciating parts for me. Very long. Yeah. And it's the best example of the whole producer. You see in this?

They come into the scene at first. they're all like, oh, what is this? What is going on? What is this mess? But then as they start playing the music, they're like one over and you're supposed to be right there with them. And it's like, oh my God, it's so embarrassing. It's so difficult to sit through. I have some quotes from Eli Roth. This is 39 minutes through. So who knows what happened in the first fucking 40 minutes. He says, that was the best music you've ever made. All the pain you went through was worth it. All the pain with your mom, et cetera. And even though she didn't mention her mom in the song, But it's just like, he's insisted, the show is insisting that it's shining through somehow and that she finally channeled her pain into art, which never, it doesn't feel that way in the art that they're showing at all.

No. Because I guess they don't know how to do that. I guess the weekend doesn't know how to write that kind of music. Not surprising. And there's a really cringe line where Eli Ross says, oh yeah, when you're writing the invisible horse cock, you're totally channeling your dead cancer mom's energy.

That was paraphrasing. I don't know if you actually said that or if that was my interpretation. But she was... She was basically doing like a stripper dance. And it's like, well, how is this... Like, what do you? The song... completely removed from what they're insisting it's about or they're insisting it's inspired by.

It just seems like a, oh, you want to fuck me? I'm bad song. Yeah. Like that's the tone and the presentation and the lyrics and everything. And like, she's literally just doing a fucking, like, sex dance. Like, what does this have to do with cancer mom? Basically, it's just a laptops. Yeah. That's what sucks because it's like, man, the room for commentary there is huge. You know, like you could, she's clearly already kind of based around like a Britney Spears kind of child star type character.

And yeah, you could you could embody tons of commentary about like the way we sexualize pop stars at this level, you know, regardless of age and all this kind of stuff. But they don't even like veer towards it or they kind of do. They'll just have one of the producers say something so overt and without an ounce of subtlety. It's like just explaining anything, anything of substance. Yeah. It's then and they're spitting it out. But yeah, yeah. What happens next?

There's, we get a scene with the other girl that's supposed to have the record deal. Yeah. And they're like, sorry, you can't sing the song legally because we're giving it to the other girl. So they suggest why don't- Yeah, because that's right. Why don't you write something of your own? you can write it about this legal issue. Yeah.

And they suggest that. And she's like, okay. And I don't know why anyone would say that or why they're just treating it like that's cool. What the resolution of that is or what the point is. It's like there was a line missing or something. Yeah, I think what they were trying to do with that B plot was they start setting her up. to kind of be a Lily Rose Depp replacement because through all the

in the background the producers are seeing all the turmoil and the cult stuff with Lily Rose Depp and they're starting to lose confidence in her so yeah they start organizing her replacement in the background but then things start working out a couple of episodes later for Lily Rose Depp

and they start getting impressed so then they just drop the B character I guess as to try and say how ruthless and cutthroat and however all the producers are liars and I can't trust anyone in this industry, yada, yada, yada. She's actually fantastic now that we've tricked her by having sex with her. No, we think we've tricked her when in fact she's actually tricked all of us.

Yeah, which is weird. And it doesn't make any sense. So, like, he's got this fucking, this cult of artists that are just super fucking talented now without us ever seeing anything from the weekend to justify him making them talented. Yeah. We never see him like teaching them in any significant or important way. He just fucks her.

And the other characters, we don't know how they got talented, but he gets all the credit and all the producers are like, you're clearly a genius. You're clearly a genius because you found all these people. What? If you're replaced all of the gratuitous sex scenes with like cleverly written scenes of him being more

of like a mentor kind of maybe trying to guide that music production than maybe. Maybe you get a little bit more of that and actually see why she'd like him a bit more or get the use out of him. Whereas, yeah. Yeah, he taught them so many valuable life skills by, you just fuck on the mic. That's what you do. You make good music.

Yeah, because he's supposed to be kind of like a life coach type person as well. Yeah. Like this wise, no, yeah, that really doesn't come through. What's crazy about it is, so this is the final episode. There were supposed to be six. let's just assume episode five and six even I don't know somewhere between four and six was trimmed down

into just two episodes or maybe five and six was trimmed down into one episode there's stuff missing from the end half even considering that it feels like there's entire setups and scenes and large chunks of context that are missing from the first half

even before they started cutting it down like him being a mentor like him teaching them or like anything to justify why these music producers and executives would be saying these positive things about him. Like, we don't get any of that. Throughout the entire scene in this last episode, he looks like he's fucking six shots and six bars in. Like, he's on some mix of, of, like, alcohol and prescription medications. But we never see him take any of it. He just kind of shows up and he's like, like, like, looking greasy and angry and stuff.

And it's like, okay, are we? Did we miss something? Like, there could have been a scene, you know, where we saw him maybe breaking down and, like, going for the bottle or something like that.

But it felt like there was just chunks of it missing. Which you should not feel in a show that's so fucking slow. Because all it reveals is that, oh, hey, you did have time to show this. Clearly, you wasted a lot of time. Yeah.

So why didn't we see any of it? Like, feel like you're missing context or missing scenes or missing motivations in a show that that is this painfully slow and doesn't not seem to value anyone's time whatsoever absolutely baffling and and also I'm going to point this out the whole rise to stardom aspect of this where she's like oh now I'm in a big crowd and I finally get what I want because I'm the big musician it's like the you started out having a record deal and fucking filming music videos and backup dancers.

You didn't start from shit. You were already in the industry. You were already making music. You already had a job doing that. You already had a fucking huge fan following of some sort for you to be like in this tabloid cum-faced thing. Most scenes are in a mansion. Yeah.

Like you already have a mansion. So it's like, oh, the, the great struggle and the, the, the, the, the, the, the, breaking through as this character's achievement is now she can afford three pools instead of two pools. Now she has a house with three pools or some shit. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? This isn't any kind of a success story at all. Yeah. It's just pure narcissism, which I mean, if this is the weekend's fucking passion project, then no shit. Like, how does he write anything? Yeah. Why didn't he just make himself the main character, is my question. And if like, if you didn't, if he hated having this whole, because that was the, the original, uh, the way it's been described in like these articles saying that he, you didn't get on with the female perspective the show was leaning into despite having Lily Rose Depp as the main character as the pop star with originally this female director.

And he was like, surprised that it was leaning that way. And I said, well, why don't you just make it about you then? You know? Yeah. What are you fucking trying to do? Yeah Like what do you actually want to say with this? You just want to look cool

Even though you're playing like a horrible aggressive like ex-pimp guy who's clearly a bad person By any metric Like I guess you think that's cool Cool Yeah

So yeah the show concludes She's got a big show She can afford a house with three pools instead of two pools now and she's got millions more fans than the millions she already had which is such a

fantastic amazing achievement that's right there's a really awkward time jump yeah time jumps like six months or something the producers pay the weekend to they're like okay

you're genius we're gonna pay you money to just never interact with us again and then he shows up at the concert I guess like before it started tries to like sneak in and then she's like let him in I love him and she's like also my mom never beat me and I lied about everything but we're together again and the producers are like what we what and I don't know what I'm supposed to interpret or feel for that matter yeah like 20 or 30 minutes into that episode the like producer characters kind of get together and they like team up with the press to like sabotage the weekend's character somehow through whatever channels and power they've got so then yeah he's like humiliated at the

end and then shows up to the show he tries his pimp name when they're asking for like the name on the list and that doesn't work but then he says his real name i guess to say just how well they know each other and that gets him in it's true love backstage and then then then you then yeah, he picks up the hairbrush, realizes, oh, the hairbrush is brand new, so this story about the beatings could not be true, huh? And then she kind of like, winks right at the camera. And then they have to find the show. Oh, yeah, what did the hairbrush have to do with it?

That was supposed to be like the instigator for him realizing that the, in the previous episodes, like that big table scene in episode three, I think. She brings up that her mom used to beat her with her hairbrush And there are a bunch of scenes showing her brush her hair With that hair brush her brush to kind of show like It's her living on somehow and you know It's like a symbol of her mother that and her power over her But yeah it wasn't true because it's a brand new hairbrush

And has no marks of any kind on it Yep And then the show's over and it was a big waste of four and a half hours or some shit Yep, four and a half hours Yeah Nothing happened It was so stupid But it was like it was exactly

Just one of those You know train wreck car crash movies Where like I was addicted to it I was like It was fascinating It was genuinely fascinating Just how Unrelatable it was

And how confused it was And to imagine That this was someone Ostensibly Trying to save something like the weekend this was his project and he was like yeah I want to communicate this like well I don't know what you really wanted to communicate did you just want to fuck Lily Rose Depp and that was you just wanted to have some scenes where you were having sex

with her and that's the whole thing and that's the all the entire reason why you made this and why you didn't want Amy Simetz's version like I want to know what that was surely it would have been better than this like you it would be impossible for that not to have been better than this What do you think about the, just the production and the presentation in terms of, especially comparing it to euphoria? Because one of the big missed opportunities to me was like, how much fun and rooms do you have for creativity when you've got, A, a ton of, like, drug use and B, like a cult? And you could have so much fun and, like, with the colors and the imagery and kind of more trippy sequences, like in euphoria, when, like, Roo, going down a hallway and it starts spinning. and she falls onto the ceiling while it's spinning, but every other character like stays stuck to the ground.

There's like cool imagery and stuff to like bring you into a scene or put you there with a character. That there's nothing, nothing like that, none of it. None. What's like the most creative scene? None at all. I don't think there is no creative scene. There is no creative scene.

It's just, it's so blunt. It's boringly shot. Yeah. And there's like two or three locations start the entire thing. Not inherently a problem, but again, it's just how it was used. Like it's all in favor. and in service of these embarrassing exchanges of dialogue. Yeah.

It's dumb and pretentious at the same time. Yeah. It's trying to insist something without having the tools or brains to be able to actually portray what you're insisting you're trying to portray. So it's just a big fucking mess. It's a big disaster. It's a disaster piece. So.

I'd love to know what they spent overall. It couldn't have been cheap, like, even though it is in the weekend's mansion. And you can't really go with the fact that it was like 70% shot or whatever it was. So that's a lot of time. That's a lot of production money. Scrapping all that. I'm going to get these people in last minute. Sam Levinson taking over on all that direction and writing.

I don't know why they didn't, man, I suppose they could have just scrapped it, but might not just give it more time, you know? So you're the biggest pop star in the world, you have all these names attached, like, you're not just, I'm just struggling to like come up with excuses for how it wound up this bad, you know, with all the names involved, with all the power. It's because he was in charge. It's his fault. But that's the irony.

Like he's definitely rich. He could bankroll this entire production. and spend as much time as he wanted, surely, you know? This might be exactly what he wanted to make. This might be the unchanged. This is a one-to-one his vision and the project, and his vision was just shit and dumb. Yeah, maybe that's what it needed to be then.

Yeah. But I don't know if he's taken away the right conclusions from this, based on his response. Oh, what did you say? Just these tirades of tweets and Instagram posts. I'll see if I can send you any right now, because they are funny. Oh, there's whole light articles, like a collection of the weekend's wildest, the idle tweets so far. Oh, yeah, like tagging Rolling Stone because of that cringy scene where he's like trying to shit on old media.

That's right. And I forgot on how just how self-insertie this is. Oh my god, these are so much more embarrassing than I even remember. He thinks that Rolling Stone gave it a bad review because there's a line in the show where him as his own character, him has himself, I guess, but not really, but kind of. He says, isn't Rolling Stone irrelevant? So he thinks that he upset the entity known as Rolling Stone. And that secretly it was a great show and they're just pretending.

that it wasn't because they were personally offended that he said that they were irrelevant as the character in the show is what it seems to be. Him tagging at Rolling Stone. Did we upset you? And then just a clip from the show. Wow. That's very funny. What? And then there was like an article of Lily Rose Depp being interviewed. She described it like, oh, I, I knew. it was going to be controversial and I just didn't want to make something you know puritanical like all this kind of stuff it's like it's just missing the forest for the trees I don't think I don't think anyone would care about like the excess and the sex and the drug use and all this stuff that are considered controversial topics if it was just done well I don't think anyone would be complaining otherwise yeah I wonder if it made money because a lot of people watched it to shit on it

you know but then then why would they cut down an entire Why would they cut out an entire episode's worth? Is the real question? Why would they do that? Why would they? Yeah, the weekend made a bunch of music for it. Lily Rosetep released those songs for it. It is big on TikTok.

I don't know, maybe, yeah, maybe got enough hate watches for it to come together in the end day. It was the most popular show online for three weeks in a row, is what one of these things says. It was beating Black Mirror. Makes sense. Yeah, I never know like how much it translates. though as far as people

mocking something online to actually making a company money you know like morbius they tried that right they tried like releasing again but then it just yeah but people didn't watch it yeah exactly people were clowning on the clips that other people were uploading from the movie and nobody actually bought a ticket to the movie people were yeah people

were just sharing more memes whereas like this when something's as easy to access is just clicking a button on a fucking subscription service that you might already have or you can get a free trial for a lot of people will just watch it and according to the people running the streaming service it's just engagement right that's all they care about they don't care if the reviews are good so it's really confusing why they would delete an episode when you know same platform renewed velma for a second season obviously that got popular from all the hate watches and they're just like oh let's do it again oh right did that actually get renewed

pretty sure yeah let's check Wow. Got hate watched into a second season, huh? Yeah, it's the same with like Big Mouth. I guess it's got like 40 seasons now. Yeah, it's, it's renewed. Velma has this season two. But it's like maybe one of the worst rated shows ever. So it's interesting that they didn't go that same route with this. They decided that show, yeah, that show actually seemed made to be engagement bait,

where the idol seems just more like a, just an utter failure, you know, just like, nothing came together. What does he do? Like, so he writes this character. A lot of his tweets are like, oh, look at this scumbag. But it's also like a smiley devil emoji or whatever. Yeah, he thinks is cool. He thinks he's cool.

He thinks he's fucking cool. So it's like, okay, well, is the point, like, is he a scumbag that you're supposed to think is awesome? Because like this last two, tweet in that article that you sent me. The Ted Drussie getting comfy in this girl crib, the takeover real, hashtag the idol. And it's just a photo of him like fucking spread eagle on a on a couch. Like, what are we supposed to?

Why did they write him to be so like comedically evil then? You know? I think he's got like no self-awareness. Because you could write that. Like someone who's made mistakes in his past and has been. into prison or whatever doesn't make you inherently irredeemable but like they go out of their way to like put details on it though that really explain the brutality and explain like the the the way he preys on people it's like I'm glad you think that's cool man but I don't know if it very lands the way you think it lands yeah like he think he thinks he's created memorable characters he thinks he's created memorable characters he thinks he's created something that is like culturally significant.

It's very embarrassing. Oh, so embarrassing. I don't, I don't know what kind of character he thinks he made. There's very few people in the world, I think, are ugly. The weekend is one of them. I didn't think that before watching the show, because I don't know. I just never saw too much of him, but like, I don't know. The way he looked in this show was just disgusting.

He looks like the greasiest fucking guy of all time. But it's like, yeah. That sounds like a fun character when you describe it like that bit, but it's not, it doesn't come across like that. Yeah, you know, fucking, I don't know, James Franco and Spring Breakers. That's a fun character. He's a scumbag. Yeah. But he's like, you know, you could quote him.

There's a comedic aspect to it. It seems to be entirely self-aware with what it's doing and what it is. And that's a fun memorable character. Whereas this, this, like, if no one can even pinpoint what the fuck we're supposed to get out of this. What are we? I don't know. I, we, I'm glad we went over the plight because I needed a good refresher of just how stupid this was. But genuinely fascinating show.

Maybe legitimately the worst show I've ever seen ever of all time. Maybe quite possibly legitimately the worst show I've ever seen ever. I don't know if I can think of a worse one. I think it's up there for me only is close to some of those certain reasons why seasons in my head as far as like, I don't know, just romanticizing these bad concepts being boring, being trying to be like a drama, but wind up being this like hilarious melodrama. I don't know, it's pretty close to certain reasons why my mind. This is way more incomprehensible and boring. That's the thing, though. It's different. 13 reasons why it was funny.

It does just get funnier and funnier, the more it goes along. That is definitely true. It's just, man, the name's attached to this. There really is just no excuse. There's none, man. This is like a powerhouse production. an HBO show with like the biggest pop stars with the writing director of Euphoria. Like there's no.

Yeah. There's no reason now to be this level, this level. You know, like. We're getting closer and closer to the Sam Levitsons, a hack realization. I'm giving him like maybe one more chance. I think I'm not expecting much from whatever the fuck I see from him next is my issue. Yeah. Yeah, I liked Euphoria season one a lot.

We both did. Yeah, the Nepo baby. Yeah. He seems very confused now. Mm-hmm. Because I know, like, that was the impetus for euphoria, wasn't it? Like, it was kind of loosely based on his experiences growing up in L.A. in that kind of drug-riddled environment.

Yeah. Maybe that, now that that story's kind of been told, like, I don't know if he knows where to take it correctly. Otherwise. And now we get a show based on the weekend's experiences of being a greasy piece of Shit. Alright, one out of ten. Fuck this show, it's so bad. It's horrendous.

Yeah, one out of ten. Genuinely, probably the worst show I've ever seen in my entire life. Yeah, words can't even really, they can't even do justice, like how awful this project is. Like, it really is a failure. You feel gross watching it. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

It premiered at Cannes. Really? That's hilarious. They premiered a couple episodes at Cannes. It thought it was going to be like an art piece. They're like, this is going to be challenging. It's going to be a very challenging, very art. That's where the pretentious side comes in, though.

This is like a French film. Yeah, I guess no one could say no to the weekend, huh? They should start. You don't lose your job. They should start saying no to the weekend. They definitely should start. All right, there was a film recommendation. for this episode, as every episode has one.

Old Boy, 2003 film, not to be confused with the terrible 2013 remake. This is a much better film, which is also, it's based on a manga, but this is a very sensible and very expertly made, expertly directed, expertly written and acted fucking masterpiece of a movie. It's one of my favorites, and it's a great way to introduce people to Korean cinema, which is now getting a lot more popular on the world stage at this point in time. But there have been great Korean movies for a while. So this movie was in 2003, released in 2003, and it follows a man named Odessu, and he becomes imprisoned. for 15 years in an unknown location and he doesn't know why and he doesn't know who kidnapped him or why he's there or even that he would be there for 15 years. And the story is essentially a revenge story of him trying to figure out who did it, getting revenge on them and it's more complex than that. This is a spoiler discussion.

So if you haven't seen Old Boy 2003, please watch it and come back because it is one of the best movies ever. And it is very spoilable. This is a movie you can spoil. Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely one of those. Yeah, you know, reveals and yeah, it's a great plot. It's a great plot. It is a great plot.

Very, very well executed overall. And the reason I recommended it is because Neon's doing a 4K restoration theatrical release. It might still be in theaters by the time this episode is out. I have no idea how long they're planning on keeping it in theaters. but I made sure to let everybody know what the recommendation would be like two episodes early just because that's when it would be in theaters. We're recording a few of these early because TIF is coming up and going to be out of town. It's good.

What did you think of old boy, Alex? Love it. I was obviously pretty familiar with this one already, but I feel like the rewatch I have was pretty much perfect, not only the 4K being as crisp and cleanest. it is but also I watched it with someone who hadn't seen it before so I had that I could live vicariously through them and the obvious like twist reviewer moments and it kind of experienced that again but yeah it was just as good as I remembered it obviously uh well I noticed a lot more of the detail a lot more of that foreshadowing some of the some of the themes they were going for some of this uh just

this whole revenge angle and these these these two boys and the way their their lives overlap and the mirror that echoes there. You mentioned the manga. I haven't read it, but I think it's only kind of loosely based off it because I think it's fairly long. Yeah, definitely turned it into its own thing. Definitely, yeah. But a lot of the imagery and the visuals,

they do sit in my head like a particularly striking page from a manga or a graphic novel or something like this, just very well kind of paste. storyboarded and just so many like classic gray moments very brisk as well actually like it just it just flies by doesn't like it isn't it doesn't really take the umph or wind out of its sales knowing the twist reveals that are coming um in fact it's kind of the opposite you getting to see it again is like a six cents slash fight club type tier story where yeah just just figuring out what's going on only gets better than more you rewatch it the more you can

comb over the details and what is being set up and it really is just like this gross Greek tragedy in the end that's like the heart of it I guess it's it's it's pretty brutal it's not this ain't no happy ending kind of movie it's it's it's pretty miserable like the places it goes the themes it explores like man just even how do you dance around it like you kind of have to go straight there yeah incest I guess being like the big theme of the movie, one of the big themes. And yeah, the intertwining, like, espionage type story with the whole old boy referencing the school that the main character had forgotten about and the, like, irony of him discovering

this guy getting a little bit too close to his sister and then blabbing about it at school and these rumors that go out of control. And by the end it winds up with him cutting the... tongue out of his mouth. It's like a symbol. I'm like dancing all over the place. I don't know if you want to focus on a specific part right now because my mind's like scatter shop. I know. It's a absolutely loved it. It's kind of difficult to talk about but we'll try our best because there's just so much going on. What I love about this film, one of the many things I love about this film, is that unlike other, you know, great revenge or, you know, mystery action suspense,

whatever we want to call it, epic stories. This is one where by the end of it, you feel really bad for the villain, right? Like, Mu Jin, like, you understand why he would want to get that revenge on someone. You know, and he even says at the end, like, my sister and I loved each other despite everything, can you do the same, you know, regardless of whatever sort of moral implications we want to make about incest,

like to this character, he lost, I guess, his lover, but also his sister, you know, either way he's got to care about her. She ended her life because of the rumors that had spread about her that, you know, even the main character Odessu, he tells his friend like, don't blab to anybody. He only told one person, but it spiraled out of control from there. Yeah. Completely out of his control.

And he winds up even taking responsibility. Like he, the just terrifying. cruel things that happen to the characters throughout this movie, both emotionally and physically. It's just a very engaging and very powerful punch to be watching. Every single reveal, every single physical moment. For Odessa to cut out his own tongue, literally, but for, you know, also symbolic purposes, he's not even told to do it. To see desperation captured in such an extreme way that I don't know how I could ever write

something like that. Like you have to go really deep into these dark parts of your mind to come up with some of these things. You have to really get in there and just think of like the most brutal or the worst things you could imagine happening to these characters, but not in like a, you know, not in a particularly cynical or exploitative way. It's not like a Serbian film where the whole point is just to shock you. This is something where even though what you're seeing is shocking, it feels appropriate and fitting and emotionally resonant and thematically resonant for the film. It's one of those

movies where like the pieces just fit and you understand why every scene is there. You understand. You understand why it's shot in a certain way. You understand everything about it and it just everything complements the entire experience. Yeah. And it's fun to take this character who, from our perspective, I guess, has been, he's been wronged to such an extreme level, you know, put in like solitary confinement pretty much for 15 years. Like it would make anyone snap. It would make anyone go crazy. So you're right there with him trying to figure out, like, why was he put Yeah, like, how could you possibly give someone a motivation that would explain them going to these lengths and let alone give them any kind of depth or, like, relatability? But then that scene happens.

Just the execution of it from the second, that first page of that book, the photo album starts being flipped and the music starts rising and you start realizing. Yeah, I've got the music in my head right now. I've got the visuals and the music. It's so memorable. It's like snapshots of the movie that are just, it sticks with you. You remember exactly what the shot looks like and exactly what the music sounds like. Like, I don't know. I've seen it a lot of times.

And the feeling of it. It's like an emotionally overwhelming moment. Like, I'm not feeling happy. I'm not feeling sad. I'm just feeling like, oh my God. I'm right here with this character feeling where he's feeling like the almost makes you feel ill. Yeah. And the way he expresses it and like it just that he degrades himself to such.

a level you're right there with him you're buying that this is such an overwhelmingly negative thing to find out like i i feel like it probably would break anyone yeah to to get that information revealed to you um it's like such a it is so deeply horrifying it's so psychologically messed up and then the reaction of him laughing into a handkerchief while he's perfect he's like the lowest point yeah it yes it's very engaging a very messed up uh horrifying way for the story to kind of conclude yeah release reach and then then all the like layers of complication in there where the the guy who put him in the prison whose sister committed suicide he's kind of been the only thing

keeping him going because like once once he reveals the main character becomes his obsession yeah and there's this whole he's had this heart surgery he's got a funky heart and he's got this little device that he says will end his heart if the button is pressed handing it to him as he walks out saying you can just kill me like it's over um but then like that final cherry on top like the button doesn't kill him at all it's just linked to an audio recording of him and his daughter having sex yeah like oh my god how can it how can it get any more brutal right now um but it is like it is it's quite an interesting conundrum because i don't know what it's trying to say in terms of like i don't i don't think of the

punishment necessarily meets the crime with how like extreme it is but just showing the I guess you would kill him the villains kind of perspective that connection with his sister and where it goes and the way they kind of reintegrate all this imagery of like the opening moment where he's hanging that guy the suicidal guy by his tie off the cliff just like how the villain character is hanging his sister off the bridge trying to stop her and in including these little details, which we can get more into, like the phantom pregnancy angle, and the rumors and the hypnotism angle, that does turn it into this quite complicated. Man, yeah, you do see, at least where the villain is coming from,

like you see his motivation and you can understand it to a certain degree. I don't know about the level of sadistic torture that it goes to. Clearly. But just on an emotional level, you can understand, And yeah, yeah, it was a huge deal to him. And yeah, the way he sees it is understandable at a certain level. And that's an interesting thing to like bring out of you because it is such an extreme situation that he's forced them in character into. So getting that level of explanation into being like, oh, okay, this is like really dark.

This is really fucked up. But man, I kind of see where you're coming from some of these angles. This is, yeah, this is horrifying. Like that, it's also really convincing when the main character gets together with his friend from the opening scene. He comes to pick him up from the prison. And the villain character, when he hears him talking about his sister calling her a slut and all this derogatory stuff, the way he just pounces on him and beats him to death with a floppy disc or whatever it is. Yeah.

It was just, yeah, a lot of great acting in here, really selling the, it's so emotionally charged and it you know just talking about like the idol and how the intensity of these characters is poorly conveyed this is like a great example of just bringing that intensity that's required for this this vengeance to matter for it to mean something yeah to have weight behind it there you can you can tell that there's so much faith in the project from everyone involved they all they all believe in it they all know that it's something worth expressing and worth exploring. The casting is fantastic.

You know, like, uh, Wu Jin. You know, it's, it's not, it doesn't feel like an anime villain, but you still see the really twisted and fucked up nature that you could even argue is maybe a bit over the top. But it, it still feels grounded and it still feels real. it's still like he's a very disturbed, broken character that is getting obviously sick satisfaction out of this vengeance, which I mean, the main character, that's his goal too. Odessa is also motivated by vengeance.

And I also want to point out, Choi, Manchik and also his friend character, they went through pretty extreme weight transformations over the 15 years. Yeah, true. In the story, as actors, you can see a huge difference. Like, you can see the weight change in their face. Yeah, it communicates the time jump really well. Yeah. You really feel like 15 years has passed and that they're entirely different people.

Even putting aside the physical performance, just especially how Chui Manich acts and how he carries himself and his facial expressions and his mannerisms and his body language like it's a really incredible performance that really great performances all around like i i it's it's awe-inspiring it's it's very next level completely unreserved yeah yeah and even with the um the villain character you saying it's you know a little bit over the top uh i think it i think it works i think it works with yes well this character like does the lengths he goes to I do buy that he is this kind of like he's kind of big in business he's got this penthouse he's clearly quite obsessive but yes it's all expressed with this character really

well and the goofiness never holds it back in my mind this part of character to me because it is such a like it he you can kind of excuse a lot of things when the framing is it's someone who's been locked in an environment for 15 years with only TV to watch and dumbling bunch of stuff that and dumplings yeah because that's like a that's like a little bit of a hack they have like in the writing sometimes where kind of explains how he's so good at fighting um it explains how he knows this and that because of yeah just obsessively watching the tv and they address things like oh why didn't he just try and end his own life when he was stuck in this situation they show it they show the results of it yeah they even address the believability of hypnotism and they say that

You know, Wu Jin says, oh, you two were actually particularly receptive to hypnotism. Yeah. They address him not going completely crazy. They say that they gave him, like, antipsychotic or anti-s schizophrenic drugs during his 15 years so that he didn't completely lose his mind just so the rest of the plot could happen. Yeah. And so, yeah, there is a level of, you know, when you're dealing with things like hypnotism and all these things that just, like, happen to work out.

it seems very self-aware and I like that it addresses that and it doesn't feel like the script is cheating us. It doesn't feel like the story is like, oh, come on, you know, of course, yo, that just happens to happen. It never feels cheap and it never feels unwarranted and it never feels like the script is not aware of it in any sense. Yeah, yeah, because anything especially involving memory and memory loss and hypnotism and amnesia and this kind of stuff, it can be like, it can be quite annoying, you know, to just like use it as an excuse to reset a character just so we can go along with their ride. But you're right, they do, they do structure it into the plot enough.

They do acknowledge it when you do have the kind of technical questions you might imagine, like, how's this work? Yeah. These, these meetcutes that happen, like it explains. Like, you have thought about this the way it like concludes bringing the hypnotists back at the end, setting all that up, giving it a payoff. Yeah, it does really work. could that doesn't distract me. And that entire sequence of like him and his mirror self and like one of you

knows the secret and that character's going to walk away and die. Like I love that visual representation. I love that it really, there's thought put into the psychology of hypnotism and selective memory. And it's, it's not just, oh, this happens and we're going to insist it happens. Like, they show you how it could happen through the perspective of that character. Also, the, the main character being convinced that Wu Jin altered his memory and being like, why would you make me forget this? And Wujin's like, you simply just forgot.

And then we see how it happened. And you could understand how that could happen, how he could forget that. Because from his perspective, all he did was just, you know, tell one random person on one day. Yeah,

wasn't a big deal to him. Yeah, that's a great line. That's a great review. Very believable. Yeah. His entire life being destroyed and, and,

uh, Wu Jin's suffering was not ever really noticed by Odessu. Which, yeah, it's a great sort of, it's a great thing to think about in the context of the film. And it makes sense for the context of the film. Yeah, and it fleshes out that character. Yeah, yeah. Because otherwise he would know if he did some terrible thing and he remembered it, you know, if he was so malicious about something that, of course, he would just know right away who did it.

but he didn't even get the name. He had written down every person that he might have slighted or might have done something wrong to. And he came up with a sizable list too. And I love... Yeah, that's another great scene. Yeah, there's a long list and it's none of them. Yeah, he's not treated as like a perfect character

that is just a great guy that all these bad things are happening to. Like, he knows in the line in the film that's reincorporated is even though I'm no better than a beast, don't I have the right to live? It fits. It fits and it works and it's just, it's meaningful and thought-provoking. Yeah, the way he's like a mess in that opening, where he's clearly a drunk. Love it.

He's missing his daughter's birthday. Love the performance there too. Yeah, that is a very good drunk acting. Yeah, you never see great drunk acting. It's very difficult to do as an actor. Those bird wings, those angel wings, you get that prop in there too. And when that comes back later in the reveal twist moment where she's got the wings on, like innocently flapping them in that room, it's like such a, such a powerful, like, gross image.

Yeah. And that's part of what makes great reincorporation is something like that appearing at the beginning of the film. And you don't expect it to be reincorporated because it serves a different purpose. It serves the comedic tone of that drunken scene of, you know, it explains that he's going to meet his daughter for birthday or whatever, got a present. But you don't expect it to necessarily be reincorporated. Because maybe a different movie might show like,

oh, he dropped the wings and then you see them disappear after an umbrella goes over. It doesn't do anything. Yeah, it knows that it's memorable because it's creating something memorable by existing in the context of the film. And it doesn't have to explicitly point it out and it doesn't have to shove our face in it. It just happens naturally. And that way it can be reincorporated without it feeling cheap or stupid. It's something that anybody watching the movie is going to remember. You know, that's not something I was confused about on my first watch or anything.

No, no. And despite how much is happening in this under two-hour film, despite how many things are happening and it is, we could call it complex, it's not hard to follow. It's a very digestible story. And the confidence at which this film is directed and presented and the, the, the, the, the, you know, the way the story is told. It knows what it is and it knows that it's creating something that an audience can follow. And it's the the true skill of being able to present something with that confidence. It's just, yeah, Chanwick Park is one of my favorite directors.

He's my favorite Korean director for sure. He might be, you know, my top 10, top 20, I don't know, but I'd have to give some serious thought about that. he's he's really really incredible at what he does yeah makes it seem like effortless yeah um going back to the hypnotism type angle i want to know your interpretation of that kind of ambiguous ending so obviously there's that whole scene where they bring the hypnotist back uh he has to write it all out because he doesn't have a tongue anymore uh instructions of what he wants and what he has to do and it kind have boils to a moment where they're reunited father and daughter and you don't know as an audience member if it worked what he remembers we exactly particularly remember and he pulls he pulls this

facial expression it's like such a perfect thing to end on such a perfect symbol of like it look it looks pained but simultaneously happy happy it could be any of these extreme emotions and you're just like oh my god he's he's broken but relieved that he knows that it's over in some sense. There's a, he understands that there's a resolution to, you know,

not just the story, but the past fucking 15 years of his life. Like, the context of it being over that amount of time and it being believable that it's over that amount of time, like that fucking

sense of relief that the character must feel. But yeah, again, we don't, we don't know if he, if the hip, hypnotism worked. We don't know if he actually

uh remembers any of that or what he remembers or yeah because you could easily interpret that as like it's the character just fully snapping losing it like the maybe wasn't even a hypnotist there at all like you see the two chairs but like he's just standing there in the in the frozen wilderness like it's uh it could be

anything it's like I guess it's highlighting that point, it almost doesn't matter. Like the, at that point, the situation that he's gone through. It's such a dark ending point. It's bitter sweet. It is bittersweet because even even the best result is what he forgets, but he's still kind of in this bizarre relationship with his daughter and she just doesn't know.

It's almost like a more disturbing last of us type thing. Yeah, it's fucked up no matter what the outcome is. It's pretty fucked up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like the deal is done. I guess that's the whole the vengeance thing. Like it's normally the full stop point. The story's trying to tell is that they're how frivolous and pointless and just that there's no, no good place to take this kind of obsession fueled by this one emotion or anger.

Yeah, I didn't rewatch the remake, but I just remembered how they ended it. Josh Brolin decides to go back into the prison and he's like, I'm noble. I'm going to suffer. Because I have seen it. I did see it when it came out of it. I was obviously 10 years ago now. The only thing I remember is the

octopus scene, the famous octopus scene being like referenced in the most like, wow, that's like a really lazy way of doing. That's like one of the most famous scenes from this movie and you're really just going to nod that way. Like, I remember that in my mind being like, what a strange out. Just what is, what a strange project that is? Like, yeah, Spike the old boy remake?

Just like, okay. It's a reinterpretation. And it doesn't commit to any of the major beats from memory. Like, do they still do the incest thing in the same way? I feel like it's toned down entirely compared to like how extreme the original is. Yeah, I think it's the same reveal for Josh. Brolin's character, I think. I don't remember.

It's still like the incest thing. Yeah. It's like Elizabeth Olson or something. I have, if anybody's curious, I have a very long, but very good review. That's the last time I would have seen anything to do with it. The Old Boy remake, compare what works about the original and how badly the remake fails. I would say that's one of my best videos. I think most people that watch my channel would say that as well.

Unfortunately, it's demonetized because the subject. matter of the film is, you know, you can't, I don't know, I could possibly censor that out. Like the whole, it's what the film's about, right? So, apparently not suitable for advertisers. So that sucks, but, you know, spend a lot of time working on it. But it's a good video. If anybody wants to watch that instead of the remake, just to see what was in the remake, I would recommend that. Yeah, I, uh, it's a big, big, piece of poo. I would like to point out

the music in this film, both what is scored for the film and also the occurrences of classical music. Every instance of music in this film is fucking perfect. As soon as the movie starts, I get so hyped.

I have the song in my head right now. I have the shot in my head right now. Everything, the emotions. Like, I can grab the tie. Like, it's, It's so, everything about this film is just so powerful that it imprints on you and it leaves you having felt something genuine. Yeah.

The way it's wrapped up in the editing too is excellent, I thought, as well. Yes. Like a dietic way, like a song might be playing and then a phone or slam and that will just completely change the scene or the feel. Yeah. Yeah. And that recurring theme, the, boom, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, blah. And that was the same song that played on the alarm clock before he, you know, sleeping gas played. And so it's in the character's memory.

And then we get that incorporated in the actual soundtrack, non-diagetically, through an orchestra, some string instruments. And then we have Wu Jin humming it later. Yes. And it's just these, for a film that incorporates something. like hypnotism and memory, it's kind of doing that to the audience as well. It's planting these little seeds throughout the experience so that when they're reincorporated in different ways, it does feel emotionally significant and it does feel kind of scary in it. And you do remember these things. And there's a part of your brain going like, have I heard this before? And

then it's the same song. But it's a different rendition when it's the ringtone and when he gets the call on the cell phone when he's at the restaurant. And that like all of these little tiny bits of reincorporation that just are sprinkled throughout the film, but done so in not the same way over and over, but in different ways, but familiar enough to just get that subconscious emotional response out of you. It's really, really perfect. I love it. Yeah. And also they reincorporated the classical piece, which I forget the name of. That was playing when he was torturing the guy whose teeth he removes.

Oh, yeah. The guy ran the prison. Yeah. So that's playing when he's torturing him. Exact same song plays again when they show up at the home and Mito's tied up, and they're about to inflict that same damage on him. And so that, you know, there's little microcosms of, of revenge within this greater revenge story and the the music tying things together

not only in a effective way to feel something and get excited and and the juxtaposition of this music that could be played over like a fuck could be played in in like the the favorite or some period yeah yeah the juxtaposition of that where you could you could match that to a number of different scenes tones, but that excitement and that that, that, uh, just emotional resonance in this classical music, you feel different emotions at the same time. You, you're watching him removing the guy's teeth. It simultaneously feels like fucked up and horrifying, but also exciting and also fun. And, and that's what the character's feeling. He's, he's getting these little bits of revenge that he's wanted for 15 years, the catharsis that he's experiencing, and then same music

reincorporated when the implication is that the guy is going to get revenge back on him, he's going to make him feel the exact same thing. He's not even, he's, he's doing the exact same thing. He gets like a hammer, the other end of a hammer, and he's about to remove his teeth. He wants him to feel exactly what he felt. He wants him to, to have experienced the same pain, And so the same music appearing at the same time, we feel those same emotions in a way. And it's kind of scary and brought in a different context of the character that you're relating to now being at the other end of that. And, you know, when you think about what Wu Jin has done, he didn't just get revenge on Odessu. He wanted him to feel a similar feeling to what he felt.

You know, he tricked him into having an incestuous relationship of his own and wanted him to feel the complexities and the, the moral struggles that would come with being in love with somebody that you're related to and taking that away from them. And the parallels of what each character is trying to make each other character experience in the film. Just, yeah, love it. Yeah, I love the way they echo each other and the way they're so, like, intrinsically linked after this point. They're so, like, messed up together. But that level of detail, it isn't just with the music.

It goes into every technical aspect, you know, like just the basic audio design, certain choices there are awesome. I love that scene with the gas masks, where it's just some brief things slow down for a second. It's so quite melancholy, very creepy. You just hear that brief. thing. The color purple.

Yeah, lots of great usages of color. Yeah. Visually too, like we haven't even mentioned the kind of action slant the film has. I mentioned the lead knows how to fight

because of all the, he's been like training against the wall for years and years and he puts it to the test a couple times. There are a couple really excellent, like fist fight action scenes with, of course,

the most famous, it's probably the most famous shot from this movie the one are in the hallway, the hammer fight. Yes. Excellent stuff. It's a type of choreography that's really tough to get right where it is obviously all like

took like 15 attempts and everyone has to hit these certain markers and it's such a long scene so everyone has so much responsibility and you have to make it look natural and it has to flow a certain way. I mean, I feel like they do such a great job. It's it that they really sell it. And with it being the only scene that shot that way, it makes it, it does make it pop and like sit in the film in such a satisfying way. Well, when most people write something like, okay, point A, one character has to fight a dozen characters and then point B, he wins, escapes, gets out of there. Most people would write that in a way where, oh, the character just, you know, might almost get hit a couple times, but he's,

like just so good at it. He's like, this isn't a superhero. By the end of the scene, he's bleeding to death. Yeah, yeah. He's got a knife in it. He pulls a knife out of his back. And, you know, it's, it's highlighted just how weak and physically broken he is by the end of that scene, by the fact that Wu Jin literally just shows up, puts him in a cab, reveals himself, and says, like, farewell Odessu. And you can see him like, he's trying to, escape out of his body. You see you see him sit up and react, but he can't move because he's like about to fucking die. He needs medical attention, right? He can't just get up and start chasing him. And you know that based on everything else that the film is showing and based on what we get out of

the character and just how clear and extreme his motivations for revenge and discovering the truth are, we know that he would want nothing more than to go and chase him. So what we're left with, his, oh, there's a actual physical reason that's stopping him. Like, he's actually that broken. He's actually that damaged after the fight that he can't. And not only the outcome of the fight scene and how he's bleeding by the end of it, but the way that the fight is shown, you have moments that in any other film, if that happened on set, they would say that sloppy, do it again. but the sloppiness of the fighting adds to the film's authenticity.

The fact that sometimes they miss each other, sometimes they just fall over on trip over or something. Real fights are messy and... Yeah, they miss punches. They're throwing things and it's just going random. Yeah, even fucking UFC fights. You know, professional fighters, like it's messy. It's not this, you know, you see every other action movie

or especially American action movies. It's not this, you know, song and dance choreography necessarily. And in this film, you could argue that it is, but it's just done so in a much more realistic way where the imperfections add to the experience. They add to how real and how brutal and legitimate the fight scene feels. That it is one guy against 12 guys, and he shouldn't make it through. And he makes it through with determination. And, you know, also his practice fight. against a wall or whatever we want to call it he makes it through but just barely just barely he makes it through

And you get that nice moment of humor when he's gotten through those Elevator 12 guys and then yeah wave two comes and you just see the aftermath of it Love it funny stuff yeah there's great moments of humor within this really fucked up and really serious film One of the things I love the most about Korean cinema is that there's always this really delicate balance, this perfect dance that they're doing with emotions that a lot of other filmmakers would be too afraid to include in their film simultaneously. So Bong Joon Ho is really great at this as well, something like Parasite. The humor doesn't detract from the seriousness of the film. You can have silly characters, the host even, you know, you can have silly, silly

dumb comedic moments that don't make the more serious moments feel less legitimate. And yeah, I feel like this movie does it perfectly. Yeah. Another thing I was quite into was a lot of shots start with something mid-motion, just implying and like filling you in visually in such a like interesting, clever way. Like there's a scene where they're eating the, uh, uh, like, uh, like, uh, thinking on the word. Dumplings?

Yeah, the dumplings. And the shot opens with the daughter character. She's like leaning over the table. It's like a really dynamic pose she's in with the chopstick in hand and it there. Or when that character gets shot at the end and then it cuts to the blood like in his eye and he's like wiping out of his eye. Or of course the one at the beginning, the opening on the guy dangling off the rooftop by the tie. all these like really dynamic poses that do keep coming back and referenced again and it's just very clever like everything's just been thought through such a like fighting comb like

everything vigorously yeah yeah when you have someone as as as talented as Park Chanwick and as methodical and who cares enough about what they're expressing and how they're expressing it and it needs to be right and it needs to be a certain way and the vision works It's not the weekend. There's an actual vision here, and there's something he wants to express and something he wants to express in a particular way. There's interviews, there's an entire, like, making of documentary where, I don't know, I guess it's in this, yeah, where he talks about, like, the choices for, like, color palettes

in the film and, like, that, the heavy greens that we see. And just, he talks about having experimented with, like, a bunch of different cameras and just picking the right one in the right lens and, you know, just to be able to get the look of the film that he wanted before starting to film it. There was a very clear vision and it seems that it just, this is exactly what he wanted it to be. How do you feel about the, uh, CG bugs, the ants under the skin? CG bugs? Yeah. I think it's cool. Yeah. You know, there's maybe, there's a couple elements of the film where it's like, okay, it's a little dated with the CG or whatever,

but it doesn't, you know, it's done well enough that it doesn't make, it doesn't make me go, oh, I'm watching a movie and I can't think about what the characters are doing because everything else is just so powerful that moments like that just don't bother me.

And I love that those were included, the ants, because it does bring this kind of non-literal psychological aspect to the film about, you know, saying like when people are lonely, they hallucinate ants, which I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm just willing to believe it for the context of the film either way. Yeah, it makes a good visual too, yeah.

Yeah. And it also, you know, it gives us a little bit of context into Mito's world. It shows that she's lonely as well. We get that shot of her hallucinating ants in a very different way than Odessu was. But it's it you know, we get context to the character. It's crazy how morally fucked up and not just imperfect is not even selling it. The character of Odessu, right? Like he he gets rapy.

He gets rapy. Oh yeah, big time. And it's not to excuse that and not to say that that's cool or anything. but the character after 15 years of blue balls you know he it the film justifies you know not the character doing it but why the character would do it that's one of the best jokes actually is when he's in the elevator going down and in his head or the narration something like yeah there's a woman yeah yeah he's just like

pushed up against the walls and then afterwards the implication is that he like groped her or something she's like yelling at the security officer who's just like um He's leaving. He's like trying not to get involved. Yeah, it's really fucked up. And like he's not a moral character. He's not like a good character, but you're there with him for his struggle

and you're there with him for his journey. And you still have, there's enough happening in the film and how it's presented that you still have a lot to think about for yourself. Like what would you do if you were in prison for 15 years, right? Like I wouldn't rape anybody. but you know you're you're still the emotions are so powerful and the concepts are so powerful that yeah it's still it's not unrelatable it's not unrelatable like everything in the idol it's

entirely relatable it's exploring depravity in a way yeah yeah it's what annoys me so much about like you hear these stories about like what the rock forces to be in his contracts you know his character can't be too much of a bad or have enough complexity to him where it's like no This is what you want to see. You want to see these fuck-ups, these flawed people that have put through some kind of, through something. Interesting. You know, explore the depravity. Explore this fucked up stuff.

Yeah, that takes talent. That's everything you want to see. Takes talent, both in the writing and the acting. Damn straight. To like explore a character that you are not. To explore somebody who is like truly fucked up. Can you imagine the rock like on all four is like, licking. someone's shoot.

I mean, the Josh Brolin bit was already embarrassing enough, like him trying to do that freak out scene. Oh, no, no. It's like, fucking God. Jesus Christ. Like, what do you think? Yeah, it's so embarrassing.

Because this is, what, what pisses me off about that remake is that this is maybe the most accessible foreign language film that you could show to someone who likes American films. Like this is, this is one of the most easily likable things. Like, you could take someone that thinks that they just don't want to watch a movie with subtitles

or thinks that they don't like foreign movies. And this would be the one that changes their mind. So to act like we needed a fucking American remake for that, it's just like, okay, really? What did you really want to communicate? Like, like, come on. Yeah, and then they do a bad job localizing it. The whole thing is that that's what's craziest to me. Everything's already there.

The whole story's there. The whole thing is story. It's already there. Oh, yeah. And then for his reinterpretation. or whatever we want to call it, you know, even if you were trying to make a different point,

you miss the point. You know, like, it's, I don't, it's always embarrassing comparing bad remakes to the original because I have to wonder,

what was the movie to you? Was it this surface? What was, was the entire experience of watching the film to you, this surface level that you're reimagining or reinterpretation or, you know, your version of it?

it just why why would you create something where you don't feel the 15 years time difference? Why would you create something where it doesn't matter that it was dumplings and he just didn't like it and he had fucking frost and flakes and rice and all this other shit and whatever? Like why would you take something that matters and then turn it into something that doesn't matter? Josh Brolin, there's a scene of him like jerking off into a pillow and it's just there for no particular reason. It doesn't show his desperation. It doesn't show it it doesn't show that he's subjected to doing this and he's embarrassed and he's at his lowest and he's just so desperate for human connection

that he's been that he's now resorted to doing that. He's just doing it. So what did you get out of the movie when you're missing? You're clearly recreating parts of scenes, but you're not recreating. everything that would make that scene matter. You're showing us a version of the original, but everything that made what you saw in the original important and significant and emotionally resonant is not included in the film. So what did you watch?

What the fuck did you think you watched, right? Yeah. Time and time again. All of the classic details that made, oh boy, what it is to begin with are like almost, purposefully taken out and it's like completely neutered. So it's like, why'd you even do it then? If you knew you couldn't embody any of what the original story was and the edgy stuff and the violence and the commentary and everything that's there,

you didn't think you could do it. Why are you even bothering? Because you're just going to embarrass yourselves and that's what happened. Yeah. Probably a bunch of money was lost too because I never cheat. They're like, big productions. Yeah. That's what's great because it's not like a funny games thing, you know?

No. You could have funny games. No. I mean, I was the director making his own movie again in the way that he wanted to from the beginning and now with the, you know, ability to. Yeah. Very different. Very different. I'm just skimming through my old boy review because there's, I'm trying to remember exactly what happened in the, uh, they replaced tooth pulling with something dumb and I'm trying to remember what it was. Yeah, there's no chance I remember. Oh yeah. He's just Sam Jackson's playing the guy

And Josh Brolin is just cutting like little tiny bits of skin off of his neck Like little chunks Oh what And then pouring salt on it And something that my roommate Gael pointed out that I included in my review Is just that the difference between those Torture Methods has a There's a psychological aspect to

Us watching the tooth pulling scene that we might not even be conscious about is that it's a relatable pain. We've all been to the dentist. We know how fucking painful that is with like Novakane. We all have that level of relatability. Nobody's getting like little bits of their neck, little chunks of skin taken out and then salt. Well, it's thematic as well to a certain degree. Because like the whole reason he's in this mess is because of his mouth.

Exactly. Exactly. You know? Exactly. Very thematic. Yeah, that is completely missing the point. Yeah, it's incredible. I didn't remember that.

I just, yeah, there's so much about the remake that's just forgettable, very embarrassing. And, yeah. Father. Supposedly, I read, oh yeah, the Flashback. Spilberg was supposed to, he was like originally attached. It was like his passion project for a bit. And then he dropped it in 2009 or something. And it became a Lee joint.

Yeah, a joint. Although this I think is the only film where it doesn't say joint at the beginning. Because there was a, he made of, well, he already made like a bloated version. But it was supposed to be like way longer and they trimmed it down. So it seems like by the end of it, he wasn't exactly happy with what he made either. Really weird in his filmography. It's really not a director I would have pinned. Doesn't make any sense.

It's like a best case scenario for an old boy remake. It's a particularly old one, to be honest. Very. Doesn't make any sense. No. Yeah, what more can we say? This is like a really one of the best movies ever. Yeah, the titles at the beginning, the way that the letters tick like a clock and time.

And just very, very purposeful. Every piece of the puzzle fits. And it's, yeah, one of the best, one of the best movies ever. best introduction to South Korean cinema you could possibly have I guess you know some people like parasite more but yeah I think this is incredible

yeah it's pretty close in my mind very different movies they're not you know the only reason to compare them is because they're Korean movies but yeah probably two the most famous yeah 10 out of 10 yeah I think I'm there with you I think this this is a 10 out of 10 any single

slight thing I have against it of such nitpicks in the grand scheme they are it is just like a CG aunt, that's like it pretty much. Yeah. There's really nothing, I would point to. Yet nothing that really matters too much. The benefits outweigh the flies to such an extreme degree that the flies just basically don't even exist anymore. Yeah, loads of great lines, loads of memorable scenes, just so much imagery, like the rooftop escape thing.

with the briefcase, just that imagery of the green and the red against each other. Man, there's just so much good stuff here. It's, uh, yeah, quite a meal, quite an octopus heavy meal. Yeah. Oh, yeah, do we want to talk about the ethical? I mean, I guess we've had this conversation before, but eats a fucking octopus. Yeah, because I know the actor, um, he's Buddhist or something. So we had to pray after filming that scene.

and I think it took them two or three octopi. It's hard to be consistent with this because, like, well, if you eat fish and you eat meat, can you really get upset by it being used in art? No, no, it's contradictory. You know what I've thought about recently is like we're so detached from the process of our food, meat, you know? like we there's there's when if you eat meat you're paying someone to rape and torture and kill an animal right and people will often say like no but it's it's if you eat it's fine because it's because you're using it it's like okay that's that's fine but nobody looks at the channel how to

basic and thinks oh you just paid people to torture rape and kill an animal and didn't eat it nobody looks like there's this weird disconnect where if you see it taking place on screen like an old boy, then suddenly there's like a moral issue with it that, you know, just look at any how to basic video. Nobody's, nobody's fucking saying, hey, you didn't eat the meat. There's, like, you can, you can buy a hamburger and throw it on the ground. You paid for someone to torture, rape, and kill a cow, and then you didn't eat it. You're not going to jail. No one thinks you should go to jail for wasting meat. Like, you, so really the, you know, even though people say that, you know, if, you know, you eat it it's morally okay I think I think the real issue is just whether or not

people see it I think that's the deciding factor is that people just choose to be ignorant over these things yeah yeah I feel like I felt I feel differently depending on the project at hand because I remember like Cannibal Holocaust there's a couple scenes where like the turtle gets dismembered or something it just feels like you're just doing this just to be shocking just to be just for it to fit in with the film. I wasn't too much into that. But then there's what, like, apocalypse now?

I'm pretty sure you see the bull or a cow kind of get taken out on screen. Yeah, if it's a good movie. If the art is significant. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. And I'm pretty sure, like, they did use that cow as well, like, the people in that scene. So, like, do you want to get about that argument? And, you know, there's, there's earlier Hanukkah films, Michelle Honokka.

Michael Hanakey where you know their character will cut a chicken's head off that's what they do at the farm it's not like you don't know if they ate it after and even if they didn't like what so you know is how too basic is he a monster I don't know

you know they a lot of sometimes it's filmed within very specific farming environment like in Benny's video they take like a nail gun to a pig's head you don't do was the pig gonna get that same treatment anyway Did they eat the pig after? I don't know. It's just, it seems like people are upset because they see it, not because it's happening.

Yeah. Because that, that's, that happens in the how to basic video if he uses pork. That's the exact same thing's happening. Yeah. We talked about, uh, that film, that crazy film, Raw, right? Yeah. It's like, uh, it's like a really unethical situation. Um, all these, like, big cats in like this tiny area and it's clearly like, out of control and not safe.

and but what has come out of it, what has been made, there is this artistic piece in there of value that has, that is a result of it. It's not to condone it or say that that was a good thing that it happened, but it's like an interesting piece of expression slash art that came as a result of it. So I'm at least glad we have something, something we can point. Yeah, it's not morally black and white. You can make arguments in any direction.

It's not people, I think a lot of people, are comfortable having easy answers to complicated moral questions that really just don't have one. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely been, it's definitely been worse as well in the past. Like animal welfare has been typically pretty bad as far as entertainment is concerned. Yeah, if you see a horse in a movie, it's like, okay, they tortured it. Yeah, like chimps back in the day, like, yeah, all sorts. of animals have been used and abused by cinema.

But yeah, it's hard just not to go down these lanes of consistency. I say, well, yeah, personally, I do eat meat and it's abstracted in such a way where I'm not thinking about it in that same way. So maybe it's just being confronted with it. It just makes people uncomfortable and people don't like being uncomfortable. People don't like being reminded of it. No. All right, question time.

Cool. Let's do some questions from the Sardonicas community. Head over to the suggestion thread on the subred. it where I'll leave a little, well, I already said thread, but a thread for you to leave questions for us in the future, just like BBD 4116 did. Who says, when was the last time you went to the movies and had the entire theater to yourself? What movie did you see and how was the experience?

Last time for me was when I saw Crowella two years ago. Nice. I'm sorry to hear that. Hmm, entire theater myself. I mentioned it earlier, but when I saw Morbi, nice empty that was pretty good that was one where I didn't feel

I felt no guilt like whipping up my phone to note things down and whatnot you know that's that's nice nice I've had some like nearly empty shows I don't know if I can remember the last one that I was entirely

by myself it must have been damn I think it was something I saw in Atlanta so something in the past like a couple years probably but I just don't I don't remember do you schedule when you when you're going to see a movie kind of at the time of day based around a what it is and what kind of genre it is because like I'll try and do that depending on that's why like the Morbius well maybe not the best example but I'll do that for a lot of that that kind of movie there's kind of genre movies where I don't

I don't want to be around certain crowds you know certain stinkers so like try and go at like a really awkward time in the day so specifically I'm Yeah Whereas like if it's a horror movie I'll tend to try and see it with a bit Big of a crowd because Oh yeah Just bring the different movies bring out different

Types of people yeah I'm the I'm the opposite when it's horror movies I don't want to see it with other people People people people in horror movies The crowds Depending on where you are They can really Make a frustrating

It depends on the type of horror Yeah because I had I did have a hereditary kind of ruined I was thinking of that one too People who are audience just like some fucking dude is trying to impress the girl next to him and being like I'm not scared and then just making like jokes the entire movie like like like tongue click like oh fuck off like right you're such a big boy wow you're such a big boy for telling everyone in the theater that you're not scared but the right one when you get the right one like when I saw uh

talk to me or um that french movie about the raw that was a really good one to see with like an invigorate crowd raw um So yeah. Okay. You know what's funny? Earlier when you mentioned Roar, for a split second, I thought you said raw. And now that you say raw, I'm realizing there was no difference between how you said it. So can you say, say Roar and, no, yeah, say them how you were saying them earlier.

And I'll try to guess which one's which. Okay. I'll have one in my mind. I'm thinking of the movie Roar right now. Now say the other one? The other movie would be the movie Roar. Damn, I almost thought I had it until you said the other one. Well...

What's the first one? I think the first one was Roar. Which is which one? The lion one. Yeah, well the way I said it, there's a difference. No, yeah, you did get it right. You did get it right, yeah. Roar. Oh! War and...

Say that again. Roar and roll. No, the way you said it before. The very American accent. Roar. Oh my God. It's very unnerving to hear that. Just the accent.

Do an American accent the rest of the podcast. Roar. I looked in the mirror. All right. We don't like it. What were we, what was the question? You were talking about, okay, yeah, you were talking about seeing raw in a theater. That's right.

The French film. Yeah, yeah. The French film. Yeah. That was, yeah, that was a good experience with a horror movie. But yeah. Yeah, whatever we're talking about. Any other empty moments you can think of?

I mean, I've had like nearly empty screenings for a lot of movies I watch. When I was in Montreal, I caught a screening. for Kokomo City, which I had already seen at Sundance earlier in the year, but I wanted to see it again because it was awesome. And I also was curious if the festival cut versus the theater cut would have a little bit better audio mixing. I think it did. Yeah. Yeah. I really like that movie. It was a really good documentary.

Yeah, so that had two other people in the audience, maybe. But, you know, it's a fucking indie theater playing a movie that, you know, you have to be aware of before you see it. Yeah, you have to have expectations based on what the movie is, where you're seeing it, what the time of day is. I will try to catch the earliest showings possible in general, but depending on which day of the week I'm free or a friend's free, you know, do I have a, am I scheduled to be at the gym with my trainer earlier in the day? Maybe I have to do like a 3pm, 4 p.m. show or something. I try not to do the late night weekend ones Unless I have to

There's certain things that I might want to see in a big crowd, I guess But yeah, for for horror movies I try to avoid late night weekends And I also Especially those showings If you're in a theater That's attached to a mall I find like those are consistently

The worst crowds Because it's a lot of teenagers That are not at the movie because they wanted to see the movie. They're at the movie because they're trying to kill time and they were just at the mall anyway and they looked at the whatever and they're like, oh, horror movie, I'm gonna press my girlfriend.

Yeah, I get that. So, yeah, I try to avoid those. Although I saw, what was it called, smile in a pre-packed theater. One of those nice ones where you sit on a sofa or whatever. Nice. But that was probably made better by the audience because people are like engaging and I and it's that kind of level it's on that quality level where

I feel like man even if someone says something annoying I'm not like missing out whereas like in hereditary so I actually want to hear what's going on I want to say I don't want this to be ruined right now yeah so yeah it does depend on what you're seeing I'm trying to yeah in a in a horror movie that's not good anyway and you're just there to like riff on in your own head then yeah it doesn't matter. I think paranormal activity too is something where people were just like yelling at it and just

I remember a point where someone like exited the movie like in the middle of the movie just like a fuck it I'm done and they the way that they walked out of the theater was like the most attention grabbing thing but it was very funny and people were like genuinely laughing like it was an entire crowd of people laughing at the movie

and that was funny Yeah, that works. Yeah. It's not annoying. Okay. Schleaky Deaky says this. Have you guys been gaming on anything recently? I got a Steam deck earlier this year and I feel like it's reverted me to my child brain with my Game Boy Advance.

Yeah. Yeah, I did pick up a Steam deck in the end. Ooh. Been torn around with it. I played disco Elysium. You played that one? Not yet. I've heard good things on.

This on my back love for so long. Yeah. crazy writing super super creative yeah I was very impressed by the back the backbone on that one then I just been playing Dark Souls 3 on the steam deck as well how's it running just just actually pretty good like it's definitely completely playable for me I'm normally kind of a frame rate snob but like on that on that screen on the portable platform like it just doesn't bug me it's pretty consistent.

It just murders battery, I think, compared to running in a pool or whatever. If you're on a plane and there's like an outlet or something, just leave it plugged in. It's not the best battery life, but you know, we're early adopters to a piece of technology.

Yeah, I think it's really a cool technology though. Oh, it's great. I just love it for emulating and just having like a little portable fucking PS3 or 164. Yeah, I haven't even delved into that yet. Yeah, there's some good stuff. I like having the largest library possible in a portable device

that I can just bring on an airplane. You know, like, fucking, I've always been so pissed at Nintendo because they had the opportunity with the Switch especially to just release their entire back catalog as emulated or backwards compatible games. And a lot of them wouldn't be that complicated. They're fucking... Like they did on the Wii. They literally did that on the Wii.

Yeah, for a lot of stuff. So much good stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Every N64 game should be available on the Switch. And if they're not going to make it available, then they can't complain if somebody emulates it on another software without paying for it or another hardware. Yeah.

It's still like a conversation for whenever the inevitable Switch 2 comes out. Like, are they going to do the typical Nintendo thing of like you have to make a fresh account and you don't like, you don't get your library. I wonder. I'm pretty sure like every console they've reset it. Yeah, it's so late. I don't think you've ever like carried over your games, yeah. Just for the sake of media preservation, right?

Video games are art. Preserve art. There's some things you can't preserve. You should preserve their revenue stream. That's what's important. They would, they would sell more consoles if they, if they were like, hey, you can play every fucking Super Nintendo game and every single Game Boy game

and every single N64 game and blah blah blah blah blah right it's fucking preloaded it's such a traditional company though man there's too much freedom to give the consumer they can't sell Mario 64 for the hundredth time yeah yeah I've been enjoying Steam deck

a game on everything else I got a PC got a Series X got a PIS 5 and I got a switch and I think I use my Switch the least but I'm not like a huge Nintendo fanboy so Yeah I think I'm right there with you

Yeah yeah MCPC now Another one Another one Let's do this one from Groglek Another one Alex you mentioned in a recent episode That you like to listen to Mark Commode Your regular listener of his and Mayo's podcast

What are some of your favorite Komode rant slash reviews His takes are often seem like a complete opposite To the popular opinion of Sardonicast community for example he loves minions but it's very critical towards Kaufman how do you feel about that edit fun game imagine if you could get Komode to be a guest on the podcast what he would not would you discuss i'm sure i'm sure we're below him i i wouldn't be surprised if he has negative feelings towards internet critics anyway oh definitely uh well if you could have a movie discussion with him what would you pick ah man i reckon you could get something good out of um under the silver

like Croix. He really doesn't like that movie. Yeah, but there's some, whatever. So Mark Kermode is a big name because he does radio stuff and it's very consumable and easy to listen to. You know, you could watch it on YouTube and so that helps promote his brand and it's not like, you know, I'm not saying that what he has to say is not substantive or anything, but, you know, that is a big component of it. when I if I hear that he loves something that I hated

or hates something that I loved sometimes I'll check it out just trying to hope that hoping that I get some sort of understanding and then I watch the whole thing I'm like you didn't really help me understand why you liked this or you didn't really help me understand why you hated this by the end of it.

That happens way too often. Yeah, I get that. It can be a thing about like especially people with the traditional kind of media background when it comes to like reviewing stuff it can get it can get up his own ass to such a degree

where like it's all about the like clever zingers and the headlines and the wordplay to like such a point where it's like you're not even discussing the movie you know at a certain level so I didn't really know what you're even even trying to say but I think he's largely very entertaining

I do like he is very entertaining his show and I'll kind of do more what you just said like if I hear that it will have a really strong opinion on something like under the silver lake I'll be very curious to go and listen to that hear him out and then of course I think I mentioned it on a previous episode I like his his angry ones his Pirates of the Caribbean rants are very funny um when something gets under his skin the visit was very funny yeah yeah yeah the em night ones are good um yeah this kind of feeds into I found this It was a review of old boy

I'm just trying to pull it up right now Where 2013 It was a review that had this exact problem We're talking No the original It was a critical response To the original old boy

From here it is The New York Times And it's exactly what we're just saying about This is This is like a couple of senses It's from it What they said was The fact that old boy is embraced

By some cinnophiles Is symptomatic of a bankrupt Reductive Postmodernism one that promotes a spurious aesthetic relativism and finds its crudest expression in the hermetically sealed world of fanboys. Like, what? See, something that I'm at least proud of

with my old boy review is that you can't watch it and not understand why people think it's a great movie. You can't watch my review of Old Boy 2003 slash 2013 and not understand why so many people connect with the original film and why the remake fails so hard for many people. Yeah. And so it is interesting hearing, you know, there's someone who I will not name that just some random irrelevant reviewer that I used to find kind of clownable back in the day. But I've just not paid attention to. He released a review of Old Boy 2013, just talking about how great it is.

And at the beginning of the review, he talks about the 2003 old boy, like, the only reason anybody would like this movie is just because they're a pretentious person trying to prove to people that they enjoy foreign films. Like, oh, yeah, look how special am I am I for recommending this film that you've never heard of? And it's like someone's only reasons for enjoying it could ever possibly be just some sort of fake elitism and that it's not real enjoyment and that they're pretending to just so they seem quite. cool in film circles or can impress people that have never seen a Korean movie. That was his takeaway. And so I'm always curious like what that person would think watching my review. They hate my content. They get irrationally offended at my content. But I'm curious if they would ever like try to engage with what I'm saying. And if they've changed their mind or if they still feel that way. Because like I don't, you know, it's a pretty thorough in depth, you know, I'm not trying to

toot my own horn too much. Like, but you got to be proud of what you work on if you care about what you work on. And that's something, that video is something that I put a lot of care and time and thought and effort into. And I think it shows. I'm just curious if someone could watch that and still come away with that perspective or if they would watch that and be like, oh, I'm, I missed a lot about what people love about this movie. I'm curious. Yeah, I think people just have their conclusions and then worry about how they got their later, you know, I guess they've really decided the new ones better. For whatever reason.

But like, yeah. But like, I, I don't even know what that New York Times thing was even really saying. We're trying to say. Like, it's one ear out the other for me. Like, I don't know, I don't really know why you think that and how you got to that conclusion. Maybe, maybe if I read the full review. There's so much bad review content that has like a higher standard because it's

attached to something like the New York Times. There's this implication of old media, legacy media versus new media, the fact that, you know, on YouTube, anybody can say anything or anybody can get popular because, like, kids can watch them and it's not legitimate or whatever. But there's a lot of really bad, vapid surface level, not properly thought out, but content like this in legacy media where you read through an entire article, and it's in the New York Times or Washington Post, or whatever giant publication. And you don't really understand why they liked the movie by the end of it

or why they disliked the movie by the end of it. And it seems like they kind of just bullshitted doing like they were handing in a fucking English assignment trying to talk about a subject that they're not really interested in. And, you know, it's interesting how that exists and that there still is this stigma. Yeah, you can feel quite cleaky.

Yeah, like they're trying to, I just picture like, you know, all the critics going to the press screening, and then they're all trying to think of like the funniest. The quip. The quip, yeah. Okay, yeah, and that can really emanate beyond when it's like, man, people, they're just looking for the way they feel to be expressed in words, you know? Doesn't need to get so ridiculous. I've hung out with some people that, and this is not to say that all people in legacy print media are like this, but I've hung out with some of them,

that my conversations with them, like at like a party at Tiff or whatever, everything that they had to say about their experience there was like which celebrity that they got to talk to. And I was like, is this just all about clout for you? And one of them was like, you know, he was asking me about like my following. He's like, how do I get a big following like that?

I'm like, well, you know, if you have something that you feel you have, have to say about a movie. It's just about, you know, expressing it in that way that is relatable and, you know, like trimming down the fat and making it consumable and make, you know, focus on the things where you actually have a lot to say about it. Those can be your bigger projects. And then he stopped me. He was like, no, no, no, like your Twitter follow. How do I get more engagement on my tweets? And I was like, oh, well, I mean, you know, they kind of go hand in hand. Like, people care about what I have to say on Twitter because of my, the content that I made.

And it seemed like this weird disconnect where you didn't really understand. And this is a guy that's like, I'm not going to say which publication, but it's a major, like news. And it's like, how do you get that job? Like, what do you do? Like, I guess some of these people went to college and got like journalism degrees. Yeah. Yeah, that's what you have to do. And maybe that's what they look at when you apply for the job.

And, you know, can you write a certain amount? amount of characters, can you write a certain amount of sentences and give a number at the end? Like, I, there's a reason why you don't see a lot of legacy media critics that have made a name for themselves. When you see a review by IGN, you don't think of a guy or girl who wrote the review. You see the words IGN. The only reason anybody's looking at what they've written or is paying attention to what they've written is because of the entity that they're attached to and not necessarily because of their own words. The few critics and writers who have broken past that are ones that have something interesting to say, regardless of what platform

or entity that they're attached to. Mark Kermode is doing his own thing. Like, we're not watching Mark Kamoid because it's BBC. We know his name, right? He's at least interesting. Fucking Armand White is interesting, right? Like, he's, he has a voice that, you know, we disagree with. almost entirely consistently on but you know he's he's an interesting character and you can you can tell you know you could post one of his articles and be able to guess who wrote it yeah right I'm noticing it more and more of like the old media like playing catch up with like what the internet is done with dismantling it um the certain sectors are starting to catch up starting to figure it out finally be like

oh like this I've been doing politics for this branch for however many years I could go solo and do this myself be in control of it and find more success potentially and the smart ones have been doing that and that's what like the smart people who were at IGN like the early 2000s branching off like around 2012 2013 that's what the smart ones did use it as a platform and built their own thing. And now they're way more influential than, you know, an IGN review. And if you're successful at what you're doing independently, there's no reason for you to want to attach yourself to the New York Times or CBC or there's no incentive for you to do that when you're already doing things on your own that people connect with. So then it creates even,

it exacerbates the problem where after a certain point, the only people applying. for those jobs are people that need to be attached to the entity for people to care about what they say or people for people to even hear what they have to say. Yeah. I don't know. I prefer the way it's gone now because I think people do prefer having like a skill-up type YouTube channel to go to for certain coverage or, yeah, detaching it from these mega hyper brands and finding tastemakers or people that, you know, you can just basically find

whatever you're looking for. There's going to be someone he represents the type of content you're after. And if not, you could do it, I guess. Yeah. All right. I guess we've been going for a while. I guess that's it for questions. Unless there was like one more that you really wanted to fit in there.

But we could do that if you wanted, but if there was something you were saving for the last one. You could do a little silly one. All right. M. Latter fan base. When's the man, man, boy, boy man. unkindness co-lab dropping yeah well the hell man we could do it any day I could we could do it long distance just yeah so you we could we could make a track and you know if

I'm not hitting the notes correctly then my boyfriend can fuck me while I'm recording it and it'll sound great and all these producers will be like whoa how do you do that it's a genius shit yeah that's true we know how to make a certified bop now we've seen the aisle. Yeah, we have the blueprints. Thank you the weekend for teaching us all how to be genuine real artists. And

when I sing, when I sing that song on the man man boy boy man album, they'll be like, damn, your cancer mom is really shining through. I can tell you were really affected emotionally when you sing this. Legit though, yeah, let's do something. That'd be fun.

Oh yeah. Anytime. All right. It's your turn to recommend something. Have at it. Okay, so, yeah, I have a double feature here for this recommendation. I've seen it in the subreddit a couple times, but I've had it in my list for a while now. I think it's time to go back to Danny Boyle, do 28 days later and the sequel, 28 weeks later.

Not Danny Boyle, but same franchise, I guess, if you want to call it that. When's the last time you've seen them? A long time, probably over 10 years for both of them. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. So this will be nice to revisit. All right.

Another DB joint. Perfect. Yeah. If anybody listening at home, if you don't want to be spoiled for 28 days later and 28 weeks later, two films, one from 2002,

one from 2007, watch them before the next episode comes out. These episodes come out every two weeks. You can listen to them early by going to Sardonicast.com. Sign up for premium. It's only $2 a month. Patreon.com slash Sardonicast will get you the same thing.

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carte blanchee yeah carte blanche everybody have a have a good weekend ladies and gentlemen god damn it the weekend have a good weekend all right thanks for listening everybody bye bye