Sardonicast - Sardonicast 149: Talk to Me, Videodrome (feat. @MeatCanyon )

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

Subscribe to MeatCanyon: https://www.youtube.com/@MeatCanyon Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Buy Sardonicast T-Shirts, and other merchandise at https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast. Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Timestamps: 0:00 Intro + Guest interview 33:47 Talk to Me 54:53 Videodrome 1:22:05 Questions 1:37:02 Recommendation + Outro

Three, two, one. So what are we? Some kind of video drone. That was a quote from Final Destination 5. I'm Adam from your movie Sex. This is Sardana cast. Hello. Long live the new flesh.

I'm Alex from H.E. Probably would have been the better one, wouldn't it? Yeah. I was like really kind of shocked you didn't whip that one out. I've given up a long time ago. Yeah. I've given up. so long ago.

Anyway. Yeah, but that's not all. We have a special guest today. When do you think that is? When do you think it is that people decide to give up on YouTube? Oh. Million subs.

That's probably fair. That's probably a fair one. Or it's just like, I have nothing left. Who the hell's talking? Who is this? Oh, I'm... Who are you?

I'm Hunter, aka Meat Canyon, a.k.a. Papa meat. Hello. Very, very nice. I have a stomach that looks like a vagina. Ooh. Which also ties into what we're talking about today as well.

Do you have a name for it? Do I have a name for it? I guess I could just call it a meat canyon is what I could call it. If I wanted to. If I wanted to. If I wanted to. So, as a super meat boy, what exactly? do you do?

I make cringy cartoons for eight-year-olds and I... Don't sell yourself short. I make, uh, I like making videos about cringy subjects on my second channel. Mm-hmm. And that's what I, that's what I do. That's how I pay the bills. So I find your channel very interesting because there was a certain period of time where it seemed like this type of animated content on YouTube was just not coming back,

where it would not be successful in any way because of how they changed the ad algorithms to favor long form content, the amount of time and effort and labor that goes into making animated content. So I would like to, I guess, just pick your brain on this. How does it feel occupying the space? and was it a particular challenge growing on the platform in that way? And also, what's your production process like on your videos?

How many people do you have working for you, animating? Yeah, I'm super curious on that. What's each video like? Thanks. Yeah, I guess to start with the production team.

Now we have about 15 people that work on the videos per video. So we have a pretty big team now. When I started, it was just myself. And I mean, yeah, I've heard that a lot about people saying that like this kind of animation was dead or kind of like, I don't know if it's like the random XD kind of like flash new ground style stuff. Very new grounds. Yeah, yeah. But that's just what I liked.

You know, when I was in college, I didn't have internet until I was in college. So I didn't really have access to all. I missed that complete wave of all that shit. And I was obsessed with it in college and just like, you know, when you get. getting to college, you're kind of like figuring out like all the shit you really like and stuff. And I think that to me, I just enjoyed, I enjoyed the kind of gross out character like, um, detail swabs of like, uh, SpongeBob and Renning Stimpy and stuff, which I'm pretty sure is like obviously huge inspiration for those guys too. Um, and then I'll, you know, it just kind of spoiled

from there. But I know that, um, back of the day, even whenever I, wasn't even doing YouTube because I didn't do YouTube till long after I was out of college. And I remember seeing other videos like rubber ninja made Ross and like Mick rice pirate made about how the site's changing. And it was kind of like a yeah, it was like a death bell basically being like it's just done. We're done. There's no real way to make money with this.

And I just thought that, you know, I think that that's what everybody believed. And I think for a time it was. but I just remember being like, I started posting just like 60 second cartoons on Instagram because they were easy. I've never been like the best animator ever. And to me, I just wanted to all of my favorite shows were people standing and talking.

That's just all I wanted to do was just tell stuff. Space ghost, Aquitine, Metalocalypse. It's just people standing and talking. King of the Hill, whatever. But so I could still. do the same kind of flash animations, but pump them out relatively quickly. And I had to confine them to like 60 seconds because that's as long as like, uh, Instagram video would be back then.

And then I just kind of on a whim was just like, you know, I mean, I'm making these. I don't know why I'm not. I remember I hit like 8,000 followers and I was like, you know, this is all. This is awesome. Whatever. But I decided I was like, fuck it. I'm going to put, uh, I'm just going to put these up on YouTube. Just because I mean, who cares?

I'm not making money on Instagram. Why do I care? And the first one I post, and the first big one that I posted was the Pinocchio one I did, which is so like by a luck itself was the thing that like kind of started all this almost five years ago. Oh really? So. But yeah. No. And then ever since there too, I just, I had talked.

I have like, I worked in the animation industry. And there was a couple like story time animators that I worked with, which they were doing very well. And story time back then was like. like exploding. I mean, I still think that it does well, but I don't think it's as like crazy as it used to be, but I could be wrong. But the biggest thing people said was like, oh, if you have a video hit, you really got to capitalize on it. And that's what, that was like the tragic tale of all of them that I met was like, I had a video that hit like 400,000 views, but then it took me like four months to upload something. And then it was just, there was no traction.

Yeah. Yeah. So then, so I was just like, as soon as this one hit, I was just immediately started going. and then that's kind of what also caused this work cycle, just to kind of cute, you know, be competitive on the platform. Yeah. And not look at yourself as just an animator, but more so like a YouTube content creator. Yeah. Going back to your crew, though, you said 15 people, what does that break down into? You got storyboard artists, how many animators are in there?

Like, how does that? Yeah, we have storyboard artists. We have about four to six animators. We have like usually one comp designer, audio guy, dude for music and the I guess the 15 fluctuates with the amount of animators

like we've been trying to do more 2D like frame by frame stuff and that just helps obviously if people have less less shots I noticed you you collaborate a lot with Jamie R

who I've been a big fan of for a long time Oh yeah no I'm so lucky some of those shots are like incredible yeah how did that come together

have you just been a fan for a long time I was pitching a show to 20th Century Fox with Hulu Jamie was working on some of these Halloween shorts with him and I got to just talk with him while he did like one of those Huluene animation shorts, whatever.

Yeah, right. Panelli show or whatever was called. Yes, yes, yes, exactly. Yeah. And I was just, you know, talking to him but then I was just like, yeah, you know, like if you're ever looking for any work again, let me know because, dude, like, being

animator, especially in the YouTube system, like, or in the Hollywood system is, like, terrible. It's the worst setup. It's like another reason too, which I mean, I'm paraphrasing this, of course, but like when I see like the Writers Guild of America, like these sag strikes and people are like, writers need to get paid more, you know, all this stuff. I just think about like all the animators who are like completely losing work, all the sound guys who are totally fucked. Visual effects artists. Visual effect, everybody. And just like, and then they come back and like, ah, we made $5 more an hour. I hope that nine months of no work in L.A.

did really good for you in your studio apartment. It's just, it's such an under like appreciated thing. And it's like there's no also salary position. That's like a big misconception than I had when I first moved out. Because I went to L.A. When I graduated college and I was fucking broke. And then I went broke again.

Was homeless for like three months living in my Dodge caliber was the worst. But the whole idea was that like, you get a job and you're like, I did it. I got, you know, I'm a big animator now. Made it. And then they're like, all right, three months is out. Good luck. And then they kick you to the curb. And you're like, I have to do this.

I'll find a new contract all over again. And that's every time until you spend like, I don't know, three, four years in the industry to where you can make those like connections. So it was just brutal. But anyway, but I offered him the work just because I was like, man, I've been watching your stuff. love it. Like, it's body horror. I like doing horror stuff.

It's like, it's, I just think I have the most fun with it. And yeah, I mean, and also he is the fastest animator. I've ever met my life. Oh,

really. It's disgusting. Based on the fucking shit on his YouTube channel. It's like, how do you create? Oh my God. I don't even, I don't know.

Yeah, it's incredible. It's so fluid and his ruffs are like, because usually you go like, you do the animatic and then you do a rough pass. So that way, People aren't like spending tons of time cleaning something and be like, do, that's totally wrong.

But all of his roughs are so clean. And you're like, how the fuck did you even think of like the physics of this? Like the thing is moving and stuff. So it's just, it's so impressive. Yeah. And he's honestly, and he's been great. I think he likes working on the videos. He keeps coming back.

So we're very, very fortunate to have him in. Yeah. Shout out to to Jamie R for anybody listening. You can just search that on YouTube. There's a video called A Prank Time. There's a video called You Lovely Lovers. some really incredible animation. It's like I look at I look at that and it reminds me of like studio jibli's you know it's a very different yeah it is genuinely that quality but it's like

holy shit the fluidity of this animation and just how how well the all the visuals transition from one thing into another and the entire imaginative nature of it it's yeah I absolutely love it yeah there was a shot in the ex QC video you did the tragedy of reaction streamer where I had to watch it like 20 times over because it's just so impressed. It's when the last maid is trying to escape and XQC like launches into the air with his, with his, he'll get an arm and his neck is flowing everywhere. Well, he's, this like 3D chair is flowing. It's just like incredible some of the stuff you get in these videos now. Oh, yeah. Thanks, man.

I was really blown away with. Like, you just said, like, you haven't really been on the platform for that long. And we always talk about on the channel how we like to see, like, this growth. If you go back to older videos and you really see it with your stuff, like, just within a space of three, four years, like the, the quality is like just skyrocketed. And it's just going up and up with each one. Like, and it's so, like, inspiring to see. Because, yeah, I really thought this kind of content was, was pretty much dead and gone. Complete.

Like, old, like, 2010, ONI, NG, psychic bubbles stuff, like, and that success in other ways. I think that it exists still. I think it just takes time. I think that a lot of people that the old ways of doing it, too, was, like, the Psychic Pebbles and, you know, Oni and all those guys. they come from like you do it all yourself kind of thing which I'm I'm sure they had some help but I think that was kind of mentality back then is that like this art is a representation of yourself and that was like a big thing like this is made completely by me and which you still

have that today with like speederoo who just did uh punch punch forever which was brilliant you have like worthy kids who makes brilliant animations um not so much in like a new ground style but still like just somebody who is like a jack of all trades and I think that uh the only reason that I'm successful is just because of like getting rid of the ego of like everything yeah you know like it's all me and instead just being like I just want to like be able to you know pay my bills but it still very much is you I would say oh I mean it is yeah I mean it's all written by me it's all it's all filtered through my brain but just what helps. It's also helps me sleep at night and helps me keep me sane being like having such an amazing team, which I link all of their stuff in all of my videos too. So if you guys, if anybody's listening and they're like, who's the rest of the crew, please check it out because they're all like, just extremely talented. So and they're great people to follow too. So that's dope. They're all there. Yeah, it is, uh, I, I need to find out how to stop micromanaging everything. It's my biggest fucking thing I need to figure out in the next decade. Yeah. But then figuring that out is like a big problem.

process end of itself, which takes that time, which is like, ah, do I have this time right now? I've been through this arrangement. Yeah. It's hard to put that trust in people was the biggest thing that was hard to overcome for me. Especially when you try it and it doesn't work out too. Absolutely. Yeah. And you have to, you have to completely shoot yourself in the foot a couple times and realize

like what priorities can you give people. And also sometimes I think it comes down to like sometimes I don't think people are like looking to actively fuck you over. but sometimes it's just the things don't align right and it just it is what it is. But then that goes to show too where it's like if you do have somebody who's looking for work, who's a good worker, like you should stick by them and you should like give them that respect and shit because it's very hard to come by. Now, one of the reasons why I love your content and I wanted to have this conversation with you

is because I feel as though your animations, although, definitely touching on, you know, kind of pop culture or like YouTuber figures. And there is, as you said, cringe, there is some mockery, there's some satire. I've always felt as though your particular videos, it's always coming from somewhat of an empathetic place. It never feels like you're just fucking bullying the shit out of somebody, you know? Right, right. It always feels like, oh, you're creating art. And, you know, there might be a criticism in the art. There might be a greater point to it, but you're not just going like, hey, you stink and like, I think it would be so easy for someone to create something where they think that they're doing what you're doing,

but it actually just turning out to be, you know, just really malicious, which I appreciate that you avoid. And I remember hearing you talk about Mr. Avocado, I think on your second channel or something I don't remember. But, you know, you made it clear like, hey, you know, you know, You can do whatever he wants. I'd like to, you know, meet the guy and say hi. And I thought that that was really cool. Whereas, yeah, yeah, you did. I thought that was really cool, whereas a lot of people were just kind of being like,

this is disgusting and like kind of treating him as subhuman, whereas you really, you, you made something, something empathetic and you're willing to, you know, treat people with dignity and still create good content. So I think that that's pretty cool. No, I mean, I think that things that. which, you know, I'm not making like a fucking 824 art house piece or something like that, but I do try to like look at the narratives in that way and find interesting parallels and stuff. Like the, the Nicocato one, you know, I struggle with weight too.

And I have that sympathy. And I think it's like the choices you make are the things that define you and stuff and the parallel with like King Midas is there. And I do feel like a lot of the time I look at his situation. And I think people see the, the main reason I think. a lot of people get so up in arms and so nasty with people is money like they they see him do these things and they're like you're ruining your body for money or all these kinds of things like that and I think like I don't I mean I don't know I guess I just find more sympathy in that I do think that like people are accountable for things they do obviously and I like there are waves

of things where I have been a little more critical like I know I did like the Logan Paul steals your wallet where it's just being like why the fuck are people trusting this guy? or whatever. But even like in like the Colleen Ballinger thing of her singing the song, it's mostly just like every person does this. It's just we're all mad at this person right now for whatever reason or for like obvious reasons or whatever. But I mean like we're going to grooms their audience.

But everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, there's been tons of people who have like made the apologies. Yeah. No. She.

Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's just about even like the XQC thing like in a way like. In a way, like the ex-c-c-se, it's not like I fuck it. And that's the thing, too, that I think people, I think younger audiences see these things and they say, like, you know, this is a hit job. Or this is like, you know, like, yeah, fuck this creator. Yeah.

Like, burning hell. Whatever. I don't, I don't agree with that. I don't hate anybody that I don't even, like, I don't hate Logan Paul. Everybody's just so fucking stupid on YouTube. It's hard to hate them. It's like animals. They're all just these disgusting animals.

The only problem is whenever they actually. affect people outside of their zones, like Logan Paul stealing money from people and scamming people. People like that's like irresponsible and it's disgusting. But like XQC doing React things where on a platform where people that's that's 90% of YouTube. The problem is is when it's so egregious and whenever you're just so pompous about it, I think that there's criticism to be had. But I think it's also like to me it becomes like I see more fun in making a parallel. little with like like a smog demon like or dragon like hoarding wealth and like only obsessed with these views and like the the face value of what those views get you and stuff and like

and which the ex QC thing I was like screaming I was like oh my fucking god these commenters I'm going to rip my hair out people at the end were like well I don't know why she didn't just take the gold he's like he's like he's like like blind I'm like you're missing the complete point of like excessive greed and stuff. But I think it's like it's funner to make those things. And I think it lasts longer. And I think that it's like art that will be be applicable to more people moving forward. Because if I just did something and it's all referential to like little memes in the moment, in a year, it'll be completely devoid of like soul. Yes. So this moving forward, I think people will be able to put new creators faces to it. I think the Nicocato video, I think

people can like see like a horror story within people like some of themselves maybe people they know. I think that like that's what I think makes the art transformative and fun. And I think that like the idea of it being a parody is surface level for business. Like I if I didn't have to do parodies, I wouldn't do it. You know what I mean? But at the same time, it's what's propelled this growth. It's like what keeps my team paid. And I think and that's the thing that to me matters the most in the grand scheme of it all versus being just like a pure artor kind of thing. I would much rather just like get by and like, you know, focus like my, if I have like something where I'm like, I want this to be like purely myself, I will make it in my own

time and stuff. But, you know, there's there's work to be done now. And yeah, doing, you know, derivative content in the same in the sense that like you're talking about something that other people. are already talking about and that helps you in the algorithm, that can just propel you to the point where your options for your own creative projects are limitless anyway, right? Like, to be able to set yourself up in a way where you can fund your own projects that don't have to be talking about XQC or Ballinger or whatever.

You've already done a successful kickstarts, right? You've done eight episodes of your own show. Yeah. Yeah, I did a Kickstarter a couple years ago, which I was thinking about doing something again, but I've been kind of like back and forth on. But I think that you're right though. I think it's just to me, to me, perception is always king. Like perception is always what will be valuable in an online space. I mean, like even when somebody goes to your channel and they look at like view numbers or whatever, a lot of people will decide to leave or stay by that.

If it's low, they're like, oh, I like that this person is kind of like an indie underground thing. Or if somebody's too like low in numbers, they might be like, oh, this is a dead. channel blah blah blah so to me I'm just trying to actively be a part of the algorithm be a part of the not just like I'm not just an animator on YouTube I want to be a figure on YouTube and I think that like moving forward in my career too I think that like I can't just look at like artists that I want respect from I have to look at like the greater like the fucking family guy enjoyers who like keep the money flowing you know I mean like and can set stuff up and like you can't set stuff up and like you can do more opportunities because people are like, oh, I know that name. Like, just even knowing

a name is so much power. And you're clearly not doing it in a way where you're compromising any, like you're not creating content that you don't want to make. You're not creating content that isn't reflective of you. So. Yeah, no, it's not just like, you know, like very, like, it's definitely not just like a content farm or anything like that. It's not Darmann Studios. No, it's not Darmon. I wish it was, but it's not Darmann. I want to see the Papa meat interpretation of Darman. I want to see a Darman animation. The Darman animation.

Yeah, you know, it's just one of those things where it's like it's playing the long game is what I'm trying to do as much as I can. Well, how have you navigated the like YouTube systems? Because I mean, we've all had bad experiences with copyright with these. Yeah, do you get demonetized all the time or what? Yeah, you must do, right? Because you have a lot of like gore. Yeah. How do you deal with that?

I've, I've tried. They hit me at random times when usually when I'm like, this video is definitely going to get hit. It doesn't. And then whenever I'm like, okay, cool, this is like a pretty, this looks great. And then I'll get like an age gate. Like my one of my favorite videos I made was that, uh, Guy Fierry's Flavorian, Fogs over Flavortown, which is like this beautiful 3D and 2D mixed animated. that me and Halupe worked on,

who's another great YouTube animator, brilliant 3D artist. And that got age-gated because at the end, a guy pokes himself with one of his like, porcupine tendril hairs and pulls off a piece of his skin. And that caused it to be age-gated. So it's one, it's like working,

you can't use excessive like blood is one thing I found. You can't do like busty anything. Like, I think like, yeah. If I show somebody with like, if I show somebody with like, tits or something like that. Usually they are, I will always like the, my, the way I draw things,

which is just, you know, I mean, just everything looks fucking disgusting or whatever, but usually the proportions are off. It doesn't look anatomically correct. Like, I can get away with these things because there's like the, usually the bot can't detect it because it's so skewed. Yeah, you're right. And like, you know, that's interesting. Yeah. I've been doing more normal looking characters too just because, I mean, I don't know. I get, you get bored after a while doing stuff, but the style of that because I know that's like a I see that as a criticism I know so people see the style I use as a crutch but once again it's just simply a business move of you have like it's literally every video needs to be like a fucking three layer cake surface level people can that are

that dense can point and laugh and clap and be like oh my god I know that person and they look weird and that goes a long way like it's crazy yeah of course Two, it's fun. Two, it's fun to draw. And I think that it gives you enough leeway to manipulate and like also like do some janky shit with animation. Not having things on model as much with frame by frame, whatever is fine because it looks kind of weird anyways.

And then, um, I think just the, the third aspect is then you can start worrying about your narrative and stuff, which I, which is really where really where I put all of my heart into is like the writing. and it is like a towing line between just being like, you know, uncomfortable dialogue. But hopefully every time, at least I strive to every time, especially within these last couple years, really hit on an actual narrative that's underneath. But isn't so surface level to where people would be like, this is fucking lame, dude. Like what?

Like what? Why are you going easy on them? You know what I mean? It's like a delicate little dance that you have to do with people. So. Yeah. Yeah. Some people are only just going to be interpreting it as some sort of like, you know, people love drama.

People love like internet flame war stuff. Like there's entire communities of people where it's like they don't, they can't even comprehend that something can be a criticism without it being like an attack or like, oh, fucking flame war. And it's like, oh, I, you know, I thought I was just having a normal conversation with these people. Apparently their audience is like, thinks I killed someone, you know, there's always, there's going to be those types of. communities on the internet and it gets a lot of, uh, gets a lot of traction. So it's, you know, if they want to watch the videos, if they want to contribute to your success, great. But I love that you're more than that. You're very clearly not just doing this lowest common denominator bottom of the barrel bullshit. You're making something substantive and I really appreciate that.

You got to do that for yourself. And I think like, you know, they're a big, thing too, and I'm sure you know, is like, you just can't choose your audience. Like, whoever stumbles across your video is going to watch it. You can cultivate an audience by the things you make because of like general interest. But like if something is like a viral cartoon, you have no control about how people, how the way people are going to interpret it. So all you can do is just like make it to the best of your ability where you know, we're like, I, this is my intention. And if people want to like run with it in a different way, that's their, you know, prerogative. Yeah.

But I can't control it. that. I believe that to a degree. And I believe like past a million subs. It gets more difficult to really weed out. You can you can definitely make content that is skewed towards an audience. For sure. Right. Like you can. But I think like when you're talking at least from my experience, what I've seen where it's like my intention was to make like this thing where it's clever. And then you see like whole like you'll see a subreddit post with people being like yeah, they drag that motherfucker face down through the dirt I want curb stop the way

yeah and it's like that's like the only interaction those viewers have ever had with your channel yeah it's like well I can't control that audience that has seen this deal but you can at least know that like your core fan base which my core fan base I feel like is

I love them they're all the people that talk to you on Twitch really really great talk to on Twitch the people that even comment on my YouTube videos when like a video isn't like a big viral thing. It's fun seeing the discussion people's people have and just like, you know, um, it feels very like respectful in that way, which is nice. So. Yeah. I love that you do that. I love that people can, you know, no one never knows the real you in any situation, not even

people closest to you in your life, but that there's at least an attempt to, you know, be a genuine person. I appreciate that. Yeah. I try to always be a respectful arm length away. Like, I, I've never really told people my age. Ooh. I think on you, I think on Google it says I'm 42. Nice. So there's that.

Okay. That's true. By the way, definitely not a lie. But I don't know. There needs to be like a level of like, um, I think with anybody.

Like, I mean, nobody's perfect on the platform. That's like the biggest thing. And even seeing, uh, God, like even just seeing like the crazy shit that went down with my buddies at

Super Mega made me horrified. to even be an online figure and stuff. And it's just a complete shame. I think what happened to them, I think that like it's, it's horrible. And it just makes me even want to like crawl back even farther and create that distance even more with like,

you don't fucking know me. I don't know you. Just like laugh if you want to laugh or control quick. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I think the, it's impossible to not,

you know, I think people like, people are searching for that parasycial relationship, I think a lot of the time. And I don't know how you really combat that besides just like being like, don't or whatever. But it can be it can be difficult because I think people like are looking to be a part of something and want to feel like they can put their trust in something. So yeah, there's there's a threshold for everything. There's a spectrum for everything. I don't think it's like completely one way or the other.

I do try to present myself as like a real person without, you know, saying that it's literally a real person because it's not because no one is. Right, right. It's literally not possible to know anybody outside your own head. And even then, do you know yourself? Like, anyway, Alex, did you have any other questions? Because we could move on to talk to me. Yeah, to wrap this kind of section up, where are the animated horror movies? all the big successful animated movies tend to lean towards kids if we're talking about the West.

Man, like... I think horror is underappreciated in a lot of ways. I think that it's funny. Horror is like what started the film genre pretty much. Like as an actual film genre. And I think that like horror is almost always used as a crutch in a lot of ways. And I think with animation, people... The perception of animation always is that it's juvenile.

It's for children. Even though you see you've had South Park, Simpson's family guy, be these like monumentous like moneymakers even. Just like in terms of like business. Like this is like there's an audience for these things. I think it's always kind of, you know, if you watch this, you're a kid, unless it's anime, which that's kind of become the new narrative where it's like now every adult watches anime

and anime is like, you know, lifeblood for people. But I think like I look at every piece of horror animation out there and it's all usually pretty bad. Like not to throw shade at anybody, but it's like there was that new FX show with Danny DeVito. It's fucking terrible. It's just another case where it's like. Not aware of it. Yeah, there you go. And it's the, uh, but it's, it's always an outcome where horror is a crutch to comedy.

Mm-hmm. Where it's like, we're zombies. And we like smoking weed. We like we like pounding beers. Hey, I'm a demon and I like to drink alcohol. It's like, cool. Which is like I I am actively trying to subvert that because horror and comedy can exist so well together. It's so both of them are so absurd. And when I say horror too, I don't remember the last time I was actually scared. I just think the themes of horror are brilliant. I love the atmosphere you can have with it. People are more comfortable being in a weird atmosphere and horror.

It's fun. So I think like I like doing things where it's like you have the comedy be a crutch for the horror where it's like me. I like doing stuff where it's like I had that video where it's like you're afraid to take a shit in public. So a monster is going to come and like that's your punishment. It's like a yokey or something like that where it's like it's a really silly theme. But we're going to present it in a really serious way. And in a way that like adds to the comedy. or it adds to like the horror of it even

is that we're treating the horror with respect and the comedy is the thing that's silly which that's what's what it needs to be versus yeah like ugly Americans where it yeah once again it's like I'm a zombie and I like smoking weed and looking at titties and you know my girlfriend's a demon

like what are the writers trying to say with that like it's just it's kind of shitty and also I think too the only thing that has proven to make profit in theaters is animated kids films because parents don't know how to talk with their kids and they're just like, I'm going to throw you in a movie theater

for an hour and a half and you're going to watch this garbage. Yeah. All right, we're going to move on to the we saw a film called Talk to Me, an Australian horror film.

Hey, by YouTube is. It's the first horror film that was made upside-down. It's true. It's the first Australian movie ever, actually. Which you didn't know that. The only thing is to come from Australia are ACDC and talk to me. Did anybody watch Wolf Creek from like 2005?

Oh, yes. That was an Australian show. They made a fucking miniseries out of it and it's so funny. I'll finish it someday. It's kind of dumb. I remember Wolf Creek was like, I remember being like, this is messed up. And I rewatched that recently. and I'm like, this movie fucking sucks.

It was great when I was like 14. Yeah. Yeah. Same with like all those old remakes, like all the slasher remakes from the early 2000s and like Hills have eyes. I remember like that being like extremely hard to watch. And then I watched it recently and compared to shit now, you're like, oh, this is very tame. But Wolf Creek.

I mean, the original one, it's a fun. If you like Australian accents, it's a fun movie to just put on. Yeah. He's like the funniest villain that could be compared to like a Freddie or Jason or Michael Myers. It's just Australian man. It's fucking. It's so funny.

Father Steve Irwin, more redneck Steve Irwin. I love it. Yeah. He makes the whole thing fun. Anyway, talk to me. 824 made by some YouTubers. What's their channel name again?

I don't remember. I never watched them before. Raka, Raka. Oh, yeah. What? Can you say that again? Raka. Raka.

Raka. Yeah. And you never saw Rakaaka before this? No. I didn't know about them before they made this film. Oh man. Yeah. When I was, uh, sorry to die, I'm not trying to keep interrupting you,

but no, this is a part of the conversation. Go for it. No, go for it. The, uh, rocka rocka guys have, I remember seeing there, they had this big video when I was younger. God, I don't know if it was before YouTube or not, but this might have been like 2009 or something. They've been around a long time and they've been filming stuff forever. But they, uh, they had the big video pop off where like basically Ronald just like beats the shit out of a kid on a commercial set. But the thing that was so different about them was that they knew how to film action. Like, they're very good action directors and their stuntmen and shit. And it, yeah, that's what set their channel apart.

But yeah. How do we feel about Talk to Me? And how long ago did everybody watch it? I watched it at around in August, I think, at Fantasia Fest in Montreal. But it was already kind of like out at that point. Yeah, it's been a couple months for me. I've seen it twice. The first time I saw it was at South by Southwest.

Oh, you know. Whenever they were doing the screenings there. I, yeah, I loved it. I have so much respect for that film, especially just coming from a creator standpoint. I have so much respect for it. For a freshman film, it feels so fully realized. And I think that if this was a 43-year-old man trying to write this script, it would have been dog shit. It would have been like, just like the aspect of, like, kids getting around in a belief.

believable way and like social the way they use social media doesn't feel egregious like the i was trying to compare it to my friend where i was like watch talk to me and then watch that new texas chainsaw massacre movie on netflix i'm morbidly curious about that one yeah oh my god there's a scene where leather face goes on to like this like social media party bus oh that sounds so funny it is it well it it is funny but yeah the guy takes out his phone and he's like you are so canceled is what he says and then he kills everybody. That sounds so good. I have to watch this movie.

It's so bad. By that point, the movie, I was just screwing like, fuck you at the TV. I was like, fuck you. That's amazing.

Yeah, you know, so in terms of the script, I like what it explored, and I like, I wasn't on board with every excuse that they had for why characters did certain things.

And like, yeah, they're kids. And I get that this is, you know, spoiler discussion. Everybody, this is a spoiler discussion. by the way. You know, it's supposed to be a metaphor about, you know, like, drug use and, like,

social media and, um, you know, these vices that kids have and, like, oversharing and peer pressure. And I get that, but I still felt like they were kind of fucking idiots. It was one of those horror movies where, like, I love, like, it's brutal. I love what they're showing. But I do have to get past the, like, everybody's, everybody's really, really, really dumb. Maybe the, the dumbest people on the fucking planet. And it's in a way where it's going to keep the story going and I like what they're showing but everybody's everybody's a moron but yeah yeah it really did not bother me that it was you know dumb kids messing around with this you know allegory for drugs for partying for yeah just irresponsibility you know they're watching kSI the as hunter said

they're using social media and that all felt very grounded and realistic to me and that was definitely something the those guys understand and brought to it but also like a an energy It felt really original to me. Yeah, extremely energetic. I think Hunter was also saying about that action direction of the stuff on YouTube. And it really comes through with, yeah, the movements of the camera when they are engaging with the McGuffin hand, the embalmed hand, which is like a fun way to get everything moving. You know, like familiar tropes like opening with a gruesome kill in some form, but then the way it like wraps around on itself and explains it. and embellishes itself.

That was all like really satisfying and really awesome to me. Like, yeah, there was really that energy though that kept it going. Like, uh, and some, some true, like, uh, surprising, effective horror. Like, uh, we're in spoilers, right? Because there's a scene later on, I think towards of the second act, uh, where the main character is talking to that little girl. And it's kind of the inverse scene where she says, I'll show you what it's like, kind of on the other side.

and the, just the creativity of how they depict what this other, like, hellish world is like that, that was, that was sending a tingle down my spine. I got to admit, that was, like, some horrifying imagery right there, like, claustrophobic and gory, and, yeah, as I think you already said, it does not hold back. Like, I was thinking of you when the young guy, like, he's, like, smashing his head into the table, and it's like, oh, my God, they actually went there. I just love seeing a kid suffer in a film. Clearly, yeah.

I'm like, oh, there's real consequences. There's real stakes here. Yeah, it really did feel like consequence was the... You're not making a fake movie. I guess in the original cut, too, they said that that vision of hell or whatever was originally six minutes, six minutes long. Oh, really are. Of like some horrendous shit that they filmed. I want to see that.

Yeah, I do. I do. And I begged. I was like begging there. I'm like, dude, when this gets released on Bluroy, you got to release like a director's cut. of something like that. That'd be amazing. Yeah, just some deleted scenes. I do love that it brings that sort of fantasy horror element.

You know, it is, we're talking about, like, the dead and supernatural, but I think that horror works best in terms of creating something that's terrifying when it's like existentially terrifying, not just, oh, there's a thing that's going to hurt me or a thing that's going to kill me. It's like, oh, no, you're actually going to suffer for, like, eternity. and there's like it is going to be like never ending torture and pain and it's like this is just awful

and you're screwed and there's no way you can get out of this it's like they didn't get lost in the exposition of it either they didn't feel the need to over explain you know what was happening or some some grand fix to this you know like a yeah

the movie would be so much worse if they were like where the hell did this arm come from and they like yeah yeah spent time worrying about that it would make the movie so fucking bad it's just it's one of those

perfect examples of just like this thing exists in this universe and that's all you really need to know and it's like it just it just works and we're showing you that it works so you can trust us that it works without going into like all this you know monotonous like yeah super convoluted details into this thing and trying to like make sure it makes sense to the audience yeah i uh i liked the the mom character i liked the the no party tonight scene that was fun Yeah, that was great. Yeah. I feel like there's there's enough character moments that work in this film that it just doesn't

feel like, oh, it's only, it's only for the gore and for the brutality. Like there's just enough of it. I don't think every character moment works. There are definitely parts of the film where I was kind of like, eh, move things along, please. You know, I didn't really care about a couple parts for sure, but. Yeah, there was really only a couple parts for me where I was like, if it felt like, like, not egregious in that way, but like the pacing.

But in terms of like, I guess all the parts that it did feel like that, I'm like, this makes sense for just like a super, like a child who thinks that they know everything. I think was the fun part of that for me. I think that's like also why a lot of the stupid moments like you were saying earlier too was like it felt believable because kids think they know everything and they're just really just super fucking dumb. I think it's like the big part. And also like putting a lot of like weight of like it's kind of had the same.

feeling for me whenever you have stuff where people are like, oh, God, it's my first day of high school and, like, acting like high school really matters and like all these like, like blowing things way out of proportion. And you have one character who is dealing with like loss and other characters who are kind of like trying to care as a high schooler about those things, but not really understanding how to or just being like get over it, which I thought worked really well. I think the only part really that was egregious for me was, or not even egregious, but I was like, Oh, yeah, a mile away was the, uh, the dad death scene. That was what I was like.

I thought that that one was kind of like super the, it was like pretty plain like to see that that was going to happen. But I don't really know if that's should be counted as a negative. I just remember being like, oh, yeah. And I think the only other thing and I'll shut up is the, uh, when the girl leaves the hospital, like her brother. Because she's like, all right, I'm going to go. I'm going to come find you. Out of all the things that would happen. I feel like I'd be like, dude, I'm not going to go anywhere near you.

Like, what the fuck are you talking? I'm not going to leave my brother here. So I thought that like the reasoning for her leaving, I thought was a bit, uh, it didn't feel super believable or like that I, you know, it didn't feel like I was like, if I'm justified enough. That's, uh, that's the one time I was kind of pulled out. It was in that hospital sequence. I love where it wraps up and where it goes and finishes off those characters.

How miserable. So good. But that, that section where she. she is, yeah, in the hospital and has to get him outside. I was just like, I felt like it skipped it over in a way where it's like, you just don't think about how this practically happened because this was like, this, I just feel like it could never happen the way it did. Like, I don't know how she kind of snuck him out there and all this stuff.

But that was the only time anything of that nature was really pulling me out of the, the tone of what it was going for. I think the two, the two parts I like the most. I know we talked about the face smash scene, but the face, the face smash scene comes. in such a great way when they did it.

Is this smash mouth thing, the dead singer. Yeah, his ghost pops up in it. It's actually his hand. The, is they only use that one moment of extreme gratuity. And it's very visceral and it like hits you across the face really fucking hard. But they don't,

but they don't linger in that. And they don't like set a bar that they're like continuously trying to, you know, hit the rest of the movie. it's just kind of using that one spot and I think that that makes it a lot more impactful and I think every time we revisit the child too now you feel that weight from that

if it would have happened more I feel like you wouldn't have really not you would have sympathized with the kid but I don't think that you would have really felt that pain or like I mean every time you see him after that it's hard it's like hard to look at him um yeah great makeup also oh yeah yeah

Great. And I think, and that's another thing, too, is I think that they, they took the, the ghost route of it in a fun way where I would say the costumes are not necessarily generic, but it just feels like dead people. Kind of like a sick. It's like a better version of like a six sense vibe of like these are just kind of what they died in and they've just been kind of slowly deteriorating. But it's very, it's, it's subtle. And it also kind of lends itself to why the kids are like, yeah, look at this old hag. You know, she's wearing pearls. Or you know, like whatever and it like kind of keeps it fun for them and a little dangerous and weird um which i like as well but i i do think the strongest part of this movie i love the most is the ending like i think that the ending is so fun and such a great way to end it leaves it open for a sequel it does it leaves it open for a sequel and it also does something that i love with horror films where it's just like it could be anywhere in the world it could happen to anybody and i love that it kind of like it ends on that note too which is really fun like it isn't just like confined to this area it's just something that like gets around like this hand is just something that is passed

around all over the world and i it is exactly jimongri and it is actually not the smash about singer's arm it's robin william's hand i want to point out the uh sound design in this film because i felt like a lot of the kind of creepy unnerving elements of these possession scenes or they wound up using some like very watery sound like like bubbling and yeah uh you know in a movie it's not the first time it's been done but in a movie like i don't know the ring you would learn like oh it's specifically because there's water involved and it's like okay that makes sense too but in this film i like that it was just like kind of an added texture to it rather than they're needing to be like an actual explained you know water

yeah it's like an unexplained it's it's an unexplained folly that just works which it's always really fun it's like it's just uh it the more like when people can get away with textures like that and then you also aren't like why the why does it sound like they're underwater or something because i don't ever think i ever felt that way i think it just it's it's just a nice little layer across the top like an icing that just uh it just it thickens that sound it makes it feel a little more full and i think that it helps it a lot and when something sounds wet it sounds gross

I was like why does it sound wet yeah without also being super like maggoty you know what I mean because I think also people kind of go that too with like too much of like the slushy like yeah macaroni and cheese yeah exactly exactly yeah yeah

yeah it is surprisingly subtle and subdued like it never goes into the realm of like cartoonish horror which has it has its place but yeah wouldn't have really served this story they were trying to tell. You want to be there with those kids and actually feel the stakes and feel the fear. And I really felt like I did. The only other major kind of negative I had was more, I don't know, while the editing is

extremely brisk and I feel like it does move quickly, it felt longer than 90 minutes to me. I don't know if that's just a first viewing experience or there was something about the pacing there where it was maybe sagging a little bit in the middle. I think it's the character dialogue that I think Adam also said that he... Not all that works. Yeah, I think that some of it, it's like some of the

like, I think that you could speed along those like lulls because I think that you're really excited about stuff and then you kind of come back to the character who's struggling with like missing her mom or like some of the conversation she has with their friends. I think does put you in a sense of like it really does, uh, we get into like almost a little bit of a tar pit of slowing things down

a bit, but, um, I can see how some of those sequences can feel long, almost like it kind of felt like the same like criticisms I saw with like midnight mass was like these long layers of exposition and like, uh, dialogue where, you know, the, the scripts are good, but I can see people being like, this is like not boring, but slow, but this feels like kind of a slog. to get through. Yeah, it could have. It's not even necessarily that the ratio of dialogue to horror action was wrong. It's just that not all of the dialogue was perfect.

And it's clear that they know how to do it and that they can do it. It's just a matter of this being their first feature. And hopefully in their second feature-length film, they can really pinpoint point what exactly about the dialogue scenes that worked made them work and have that as a constant throughout every dialogue scene that's my ideal that's my hope but yeah just some not all of it needed to be there and it kind of just felt like eh move things along but I do like that it was only 90 minutes because even though

it did feel longer than that it's like it didn't overstay its welcome still no no no and I think that another thing they did well too for a freshman film is they got over the fucking terrible hump in horror where it's like we have to show characters being funny and likable or whatever. I think that they did that in a really natural way where it didn't feel too egregious. I mean, like, found footage films are the worst with that just to like, you know, because they're setting up like they're trying to kill time. Yeah, I just got a new, I just got a new camera.

It's weird. Oh, that's crazy. Don't record me with a thing. You know, like that kind of thing, whatever. Stop pranking me. Come on, man. Hey, dude, Tyler, stop, dude. Seriously.

Yeah. But the, uh, with. With the talk to me thing I thought was great was I really liked how they used the social hangout party things and how like you you set up a very simple thing about like a girl who misses her mom. And then you also have her feel like an outcast amongst these people and you see them all having fun. And it kind of, I think it just all leads really well into the justification of her being like I want to fit in. I also want to escape. I don't want to feel this way anymore, but I also want to look cool in front of these people. And I think that they, I thought all of the young actors just did a really great job.

True. Yeah, I like that a lot. That elevates it. That was like one thing that I noticed when I was watching it was like, I believe all of these characters. None of them feel like shitty 80s slasher, like definitely a 32 year old playing an 18 year old like showing her tits or something like that. It all feels like very believable. I think that's like actually such a huge hurdle to get over is to find like young talented people that can pull that off in a believable way. I think it's their highest grossing horror film.

824s. On a tiny budget. 4.5 million as well. That's very impressive. Well, and I don't know if you guys have ever heard the story of them talking about that, but initially they got a bigger offer from a U.S. studio, but their notes were just egregious.

Yeah, they wanted to have control. Yeah, Michael and Danny were just like, fuck this, we're just going to film it ourselves, and they did and it killed. And if you guys want,

if there's any people who are looking for some motivation, go to the Rocka Rocka Channel and look at their Sundance video. And like, it's unbelievable. like what they've had to overcome and then to have that thing pan out is just like it's uplifting it's like it's impossible not to feel like want to you like you want to take over the world after watching it I feel like it's really really good what would you give talk to me at a 10 yeah personally personally I give it a 9 out of 10 I love the movie I love it love it love it yeah I'm a little bit lower on my first watch but I have only seen it the one time so it be a very high 7 out of 10 and three and a half star for now. But I'm very excited to see what these guys do next. I'm very happy it was a success for them.

I think they've got ideas for a sequel, and it's what you've been greenlit. Yeah. It's a sequel or a prequel, but I think they also just got signed on to do Street Fighter. Excuse me. I think it's called a squeakle. A squeakle.

That's what it is. That's what they were saying. And I'm giving this one a very high six out of ten. I will watch it again. I'll probably buy it. I will, I'm anticipating the next time I see it.

I enjoyed it very much, despite some issues. Hunter recommended a film for all of us to watch. Yes. We're doing a spoiler discussion of Videodrome, a Cronenberg film, a Canadian film. My boy, yes. Would you like to give a brief synopsis or, you know, say as much as you want to,

spoiler discussion, just kind of introduce the film. Yeah, I mean, the movie is just about James Woods is not a senile, crazy conservative on Twitter. He's a young man on this film. But he's like a radio, he's like a television producer, and he comes across like this smut tape called Videodrome, and he sees like the potential to make big money off of it. Basically, the whole film is him exploring what this thing is

and the repercussions of what this tape has. has on not only himself, but like like a love interest in the film, but it has it's a, it's an interesting movie where it's like, uh, technology and man kind of fuse. It feels very, uh, what is it? Cronenbergy. Not, not for not forthcoming like, uh, fortune telling. They're like, like, what, like it feels like it predicted the future of like what yeah, media is to people now and like that kind of like blend between like what like the

media we consume with ourselves and it's just it's awesome it's my favorite one it's like I think it was it was Kronenberg's first a big flop but I think it's it's my favorite Kronenberg film it's it's so good I love it I'm actually curious to hear what you guys think

because sometimes I give it to people and they're like this is great and some people are like what the fuck which is very Kronenberg as well like what did I just watch but yeah no what do you think I'm curious what you guys think I was picking up Some of those similar things, the ahead of its time, nature.

You know, it happens a lot of the time with emerging technologies, new ideas, having VHS tapes in the home and the rise of the snuff film and these kind of concepts and the kind of natural horror that comes from that. I did really like the way that kind of unfolded. It's not really my favorite Cronenberg, though. What is? It has its moments for sure. It's probably naked lunch.

I'm a big fan of that. that story. Yeah, but I know this is this is kind of the one. Yeah, the one people point to. Yeah, what about you, Adam? Because I don't know, there's a lot

there's a lot going on here. Because when they're talking about the, you know, we're living in overstimulated times, the desensitization, just the social media world we live in now. It seemed like they were just describing a less exaggerated version of what we living now and that was kind of my my favorite part of it was wow like for 83 this is this is

is very prescient this is yeah basically predicting the future and I always love when a film can do that is what you're saying earlier about what you try to embody your animations with if you get that narrative in there you get that story in there and that yeah if you balance the horror elements right it can just be a timeless kind of story and almost warning of sorts so it's like paranoid it's very paranoid and it's almost like this weird government sciop stuff that comes in it's yeah i like what it was playing with um but i'll get into some deeper thoughts once adam sure says his initial thoughts yeah so i've seen i've seen video i'd seen videotrome once before this is my second viewing glad to be able to revisit it um because i think i was like i don't know like 15 or something

when i saw it the first time i have no idea but it was a long time ago i've seen naked lunch I agree. That is also my favorite Kronenberg. But I haven't seen existence. I haven't seen Crash. I haven't seen dead rigors. So I don't know if those are supposed to be better or how I'd feel about them. I kind of think of David Kronenberg in a similar way that I do to David Lynch, where a lot of what I consider to be my favorites from them are not necessarily what a lot of their diehard fans would consider to be their favorites. I think I just, just to say like that that's an interesting point because I think that shows a great

director. It's hard to pinpoint which is people's favorite from a race event like whatever, but people have these conversations about Quentin Tarantino too. Like everybody has a different favorite or like even a different least favorite. And it's all it's it's never just one. It's that it's all completely across the map. And so part of part of what works for me so well about naked. lunch is the kind of like poetic and metaphorical nature of it. And I just love it like as a

character piece and there's so much like intrigue about it. Whereas this film, I found that most of what I was enjoying about it was the like practical effects nature, which obviously you're watching a Cronenberg film. You know, it's been memed to death like the fucking Rick and Morty. It's like, oh, we're turning to Cronenberg's Morty, you know, this body horror sort of thing, which I thought was done absolutely fantastically in this film. He's got like a big. big abdussy. It is an abdissy. They are not afraid to show it and like put shit in it and do it. Yeah.

I love it. Have you seen the like theatrical versus directors cut? So we all watched the director's cut. So we all saw the criterion version I believe is just the director's cut. That's what I saw. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know like I'm assuming it would just be like, oh, they showed less of the abdussy or something like. Yeah. Like when I first saw it, it was on. Wi-Fi back way back in the day. And that was like super censored. Like, you know, like a lot of like the extremely gratuitous scenes, like the one where like the like the gun is like fusing to the hand and like the like tendrils come out and like go into the skin and stuff.

It was just less of that. But I mean, and also like, you know, God, I feel like I cut like 15 fucking minutes of the runtime. Because a lot of this movie is like very sexual and like very. exploitative in that way. And I think that they cut a lot of that stuff out. But I mean, like the criterion one is the way to go. I think just watching the director's cut of it. Yeah.

Yeah. So I do it. It's, it's an interesting film because it, it's as you were both saying, it does kind of touch on these ideas being like ahead of its time. You know, into this weird kind of like snuff reality,

like almost into fucking like, You could just imagine internet dark web material. I was actually watching a movie like a couple days ago where it was like almost about that. And I like what it's touching on. I don't like James Woods, not because of his Twitter, but I feel like he's kind of a charisma vacuum. And I understand that his character is not supposed to be a likable character. He's supposed to be kind of like a sleaze bag. You're supposed to like not like it.

But I just found myself not really getting much out of like his screen presence, let's say. For most of it, I mean, like, for the first 30 minutes I felt were like really, really, really slow for me, just because I'm not. I'm right there with you that that was my biggest problem. After that 30 minutes was up and it started turning into the more surreal, oh, what's real here? What is this tape doing? There is more of like the McGuffins being explored a bit more. then I was kind of like falling in love of what I was seeing but getting there

was a bit clunky to me you know when he's like he's being the the player on TV and like asking girls out and then jumping to sex scenes and all this kind of stuff like it was like okay where's this going I need something to get moving a little bit I need something about this character to care about

or to even hate more yeah what is the what is the impetus of this like where is this going but yeah it really does take off though after that half an hour that's another way in which it was reminding me of David Lynch films is because a lot of the times sometimes just the experience of the film

is more or less connecting with the tone and the aesthetic and things like the lighting and set design choices and like things like that when we first get into that room where they're on the sheets on the floor and then it turns into that room I'm like ooh super into it like I love what they designed there

but that's just like such a small moment in the first 30 minutes. I'm like, come on, give me more. Let's get back to this, the surrealist nature. Let's get back to like the fucking TV turning into a thing and like, oh my God, I love that effect of, you know, the one on the poster. He's like putting his head through the TV and you can still see the projected image there. That's incredible. It's like a big bubble, like mind-blowing effects.

But yeah, in terms of just the tone and the story and the. pieces that exist for the first act, it wasn't enough for me. That's my biggest problem is like, there's things there, but it didn't, it didn't, the entire structure of it wasn't as connecting with me on like a personal level as it could have been. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think like to add to that, well, one, I think I, I don't know, I like James Woods in this film. I think like, I think James Woods is, but to be fair, I like, he kind of is representative

of almost every, in my opinion, every Cronenberg character besides like Jeff Goldblum. He reminded me of Jeff Goldblum in this movie. They're kind of similar. I think he has a doubt. I think Jeff, Jeff Goldblum, I think in The Fly is this nerd

that you really get behind or whatever. And I think he's very sympathetic. I think James Woods is just, it reminded me a lot. He reminds me more of the character from Scanners. Like, it's just kind of like a character that is on this journey. And it's, it's less about like, I guess the trials and tribulations of him as a character versus like the things he's unfolding. The experience he's going through. And I think James Woods performance is kind of goofy and fun in that way. Like, it's, it, it always stands out to me. Like, I don't know. I like, it, it definitely crescendoes

gets better as the more surrealist stuff and as he's like fondling his own ab pussy and stuff but like a lot of just like beautiful vignettes in this film i think that it's more so for me and like i just love how a lot of the movie is shot it's just a like i think one of his best shot films like love the red room love what he's like whipping the tv like all of the all of he like centers a lot of the uh just like the use of like a television screen and like a television box in this films and i think like that is really cool. And he still branches out in some fun ways

with like that weird fucking headset and stuff that James Woods wears and you're like what the fuck is this thing? But it's too bright. It turns into this like

weird surrealist nightmare kind of thing. But I enjoy the pacing of the film too. I know that like that and I don't know if it's just because I have rose goggles for the movie too

and that could very well be the case. You don't have to make excuses. Like everybody has There's a lot of people that love this and consider it to be his best. So we want to hear you talk about why you love it, really. I think it's just the way that the movie flows is almost so nonchalant that when he's like figuring these things out, he's just kind of like walking into buildings and just like asking these like very weird questions that he gets like really no answers to.

Like the movie's just kind of full of James Woods just kind of stumbling across like new areas and new things. And I don't know why it's so satisfying to me, but it is. It's just like very bumbley and kind of fucking stupid. But there's like so much intent and so much like artistic vision that's going into like everything that's on screen. Yeah.

I just, I always feel like it's almost like I enjoy how simple his character is with some of the complex things that are going on visually, which I think are definitely like the forefront of what's happening, I think, or like what he's trying to do. it is it does strike me as something where it's like okay this is very this is perfectly exactly what he wanted to make like this is just what he wanted to do even if like not every moment of the film works for me it's like oh wow you you know you had a vision you did it i i think that just as the film goes along like i'm so much more into it just seeing all this crazy fucking like body horror and when he shoots the guy on stage and his you know body starts kind of like weirdly decomposing in this kind of like the thing or like the end of the first evil dead almost but like really incredible uh i don't know we not really animatronics or i don't know what to call it but just practical just rick baker practical effects yeah yeah really fucking love that shit

we got debby harry is in the movie who would uh later many decades later become famous for singing the song Fragments by Unkindness. She was pretty good in it. Oh, yeah. There was a lot of boobs in the movie. There was a lot of booba. That's one thing with Cronerberg, I feel like, is he's very, he, he throws a lot of, it's a lot of, I don't know how much of his catalog he was saying, but I feel like a lot

of what he films is like sex and stuff, which is so polar opposite to like, I guess who he is as a person. He's a very like, which I guess is always. kind of the case right like the most like tame people are usually the most ones who make like the most depraved stuff but I feel like sex is such an important part of his uh discussion in his film and how it like affects like how not only has how sex affects like people but how it's used effectively to like manipulate people and like lust and desire and I always think that that's like an interesting thing with his films um especially something like crash or something

where it's just all about that sexual thrill, like kind of crazy, like, you know, near death defying things of getting in a car wreck and that's the only way that you can make, as they say. Yeah,

I haven't seen that, but I know enough about it that I'm very intrigued. I know what it's about. Music by Howard Shore, I think. Howard Shore, yeah. Yeah,

yeah, it was. Which is crazy. Because I was. Yeah, very different than some of the, stuff you picture exactly the the name just has an entirely different association by this point in terms of tone um but yeah the music the music did a lot for me uh very much enjoying the sounds

and the the tones that were being presented and just how it worked with the film it felt like it was complimenting it very well it never felt like it was clashing it always felt like it was being used appropriately which i really loved yeah the film was a great atmosphere yes and while I wasn't really into that first half an hour. There were just these continuous motifs that was noticing and enjoying, like, yeah, the screen stuff, that weird guy who insists to only speak through pre-recorded videotapes and whatnot. That's like a fun thing that carries it through and all this eye imagery with it all coalescing with the new sunglasses line on the stage and there's that big, really impressive

set with the sunglasses in the background. It's all thematic and links together with like being watched and this government intervention. and this new tech and these satellites and this weird VR headset and all this kind of stuff. I just love that paranoia and this idea of media controlled and the government incepting these images and experimenting with these technologies. And yeah, I just kept thinking about like, man, we really are desensitized because I was thinking about when they're showing the videodrome footage at the beginning. It's like, man, there's stuff going around on Twitter right now that's more extreme than this, you know.

You're right. Yeah. Absolutely right. So it's like, yeah, that was, that was really like, man, this is, this is really clever. Scandalous in the 80s. It was like, oh, how can you show that in a film? Exactly, yeah. And you have to remember it through that lens.

Like, it was 83, like different expectations, different. But that's part of it. Different sensitivities. That's prescient. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. I think there's something, too, that works with the film with me, too, that, like,

the entire aspect of is that, like, the characters in the movie are, watching video drone and it's like and it's detrimental to them right like it's like destroying their brains almost but almost as the movie goes on as the viewers watching video drone it's almost like in a way I wonder how much of it was like supposed to be like because you're watching video drone your brain's getting fucked with too because you're like you spiral into this like surrealist nightmare with James Woods and like where vision our vision is aligned with his you know what I mean yeah I just I think it's interesting where it's just like by even just consuming this movie It's doing exactly what the like video drum is saying that it's doing to you or like watching this kind of like smut is doing the same kind of thing or

That video drum is having that effect which is kind of a fun like almost like fourth wall break kind of Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. There's a movie from 2007 called the signal not to be confused with the 2011 film called the signal But the 2007 one which I really like David Bruckner directed a third of it. I? it feels like you're high watching it and it's kind of it has a lot of the same concepts in terms of like oh there's a signal it's infecting people's brains and it makes you go crazy and it's more of a horror movie but sometimes you know things veer in like a different direction and it's just like it it feels like such a fucking trip watching it where it's like okay there is like a meta layer to just feeling this way watching the film because it's like you feel like you're getting

infected by the signal in the same way I like that so I know exactly what you're talking about but I yeah with this film in particular there's there's so much that I appreciate about it and there's just you know the craftsmanship the directing that special effects work etc etc but just on a personal level don't really connect to it don't like James Woods and there's there's just there's parts of the movie that I wish you know I could just fast forward through and just get to more of the special effects showcase and yeah there's there's there's so many parts of this movie that work, but just the entire experience is not as strong as it could be. And I will stand naked lunch.

I say stay at naked lunch, yeah. I think that like, I think all the critiques you have, too, are totally valid. I think that it's just with anything to, with any piece of art. I think it's just like perception and how you consume it or whatever. I enjoy watching James Woods. just dirtle around like a VHS library and almost like spend 10 minutes not saying a single word and just like looking around menacingly. I don't know why I enjoy that.

I wasn't really distracted by James Woods, to be honest. I thought it was fine and appropriate for the role. Because once things started happening to him after that 30 minute point, I was more like, yeah, this is the kind of character I want to see this happen to. It's like a fun, uh, seedy little experiment. and the fact like he is like yeah he works for this in the in the smut department basically

and that's like his whole impetus is just going around trying to find the new gross thing to show people I thought that was like a fun character and I think he sold it for there's some cornyness there with how he delivers some of his lines

but oh totally I don't know that worked for me that did work for me it worked in the same way that I like Kristen Glover Glover whatever Kristen Chriswin Glover

gives like very weird performances to almost like he's taking the piss out of the role a little bit but it adds to it I enjoy some of the weird performances that are done by competent directors not just like Nicholas Cage trash where it's like Nicholas Cage is a good director

or actor but the director doesn't know what to do with them so that just comes off is terrible but it's like I think it's when the actor is like doing these kind of eccentric performances with like a good a person who has good vision I think is always fun and I think like James Woods to me is filling in that role Because I you know James Woods is I don't think he's like the best actor in the world, but I think that he is Competent enough to like do this kind of hand up performance or kind of like do this kind of like weird like

Because I think he's trying to be sexy is the funny thing is why I think I like it so much is that I think James Wood Honestly believes that he's being sexy in this role Yeah him with the whip was like kind of range honestly. Yeah. And that's like something that's like something I love about it is it feels so much more human of like he feels like this sleazy kind of like guy who has a little bit of power and he is like, you know, the authoritative guy in this network. And he's like, it kind of reminded me almost like Mel Gibson and what a what a woman wants or whatever. And it's like, but it comes across where it's much more human where it's like you get to watch this guy think that he's sexier than he actually. actually is. I think that that adds to it as well. I agree with that. I love that about the character. It just only didn't really work for me when like it actually worked out for him and he did get like the, the hot girl working like with it, within meeting her once like they're together and an item. It's like, I'd love that character a bit more of maybe that that sleaziness didn't quite work out for him in that way. Yeah, I always, I always, I always wonder about that too of like also how much of that is supposed to be planned for like his inevitable demise with this, uh, and like setting this up in his like infactuation with this woman who is like we see her I love

that we see her like mouth a lot like it's like her lips like in the TV screen it's like her lips and like teeth are just like huge and it's just like we see her like her naked and stuff but I think it's just the eroticism of just like wanting like almost like make out with this television screen but I do like to think that there is this this layer of almost like he's being set up to like fall into this fucking like the tape is almost like setting up this like weird downfall for him and I think it's like a this force of nature that's just so much bigger than himself because yeah it's like it it doesn't make sense that she just is like all right fine and they go back to his like kind of shitty apartment and then uh it but then it's just but then it

that's when I start thinking those things because as soon as that happens all hell breaks loose for him and it just slowly gets more and more horrible until he just completely goes insane. What would you give the video of drones out of 10? God, or I give a video drone. My heart gives it. Don't let us say it a 10. Yeah, yeah, go for it. We know you want to give it a 10.

I give it a 10. I love video drone. I love it. Thank you. Yes. Alex, what about you? I'm a little bit low. It's not my favorite Kronenberg I've seen, but man, there's a lot of like, we didn't mention like the dialogue.

There's some really thought-provoking, interesting dialogue that I feel like could have been reduced to a commentary as shallow as like, you know, phone bad, like, but equivalent for the 80s, you know, because it is like a lot of TVs. There's something about that analog, like, design of everything that, I don't know, it's just aged well. True. Yeah, I like all that stuff. television is reality and all this there's nothing real outside of our perception of reality a lot of cleverness love the Rick Baker

practical stuff yeah I'd happily watch this again this is a strong seven out of time to me and I'm giving this one a six out of ten but I love talking about it with you and I love hearing what you love about it and don't worry I'm the

I'm definitely not the not in the majority here. A lot of people love this movie. So glad I got to see it again. Glad I got to like solidify my experience with it and have a better understanding of what I enjoyed and what I didn't enjoy, what worked for me and what didn't. Lots of stuff to appreciate. And yeah, just wish that, wish that things were like more suited for me. Just me. Just make the movie for me. Nobody else. Just me. You got lunch for that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's one of those things too where I try telling people like this film and like uh posmos cosmatos or cosmo posmatos is that the guy's name

mandi director oh uh yeah i know exactly who you're talking about yeah i always i always point people to like videodrome and i always point people to like mandi or like over the dark rainbow beyond the black rainbow you know beyond the black rainbow uh as just like really great ways of like how a director can be super artistic with uh just like the filmmaking and like just like surrealism in that way, I think is really important. Especially for 1983. It's just so early in that. Yeah.

And especially body horror is so new and stuff. And for him to branch out and have it be something that feels also applicable to something that's more prophetic in that way, feels just very impressive. So that's, it's always felt very near and dear to my heart. I love that movie. But yeah. Yeah. Have you seen a history of violence as well? That's one of the other ones I've seen.

Oh, yeah. Quite different, though. It's based on like a graphic novel, right? I think so. People are always surprised that's a Kronenberg film. Mm-hmm. It does, yeah, seem a little bit different. Yeah, it's kind of out of his wheelhouse, but that's a great one.

I love Viego, though. I think he's awesome. Cronenberg's newest film was really, it was kind of, not like necessarily a dud, but it's just like, it plays on like a really cool thing, but I loved Viego. And I, I loved sitting in the theater and watching people be disappointed. Was it great with people just being like, what am I watching? Yeah, I haven't seen crimes of the future yet, but I'm kind of really curious because of that weird disconnect, that disappointment factor. Yeah, it's a, I would pay the ticket price again just to watch Viego like pretend to choke for, he, he basically is choking for like an hour and a half of the film, so it's, it's really fun.

All right, question time. Let's do it. Okay, let's do a couple questions here from the Sardonicast community. head over to the suggestion thread on the subreddit if you want to leave questions for future episodes, just like negotiation timely 736d who says, what's the scariest threat you've received from your fans or haters? I know it sounds extreme, but it seems that entertainment criticism is what drives people to write angry comments

and threats towards their beloved properties, even if there's some genuine criticism within the community. Thanks, and we appreciate your appearance, Meet Canyon. Oh, thank you. A community that I'm not going to name, but I kind of referenced earlier in this video, there was a comment of someone saying, like, they can't wait for society to collapse so they can curb stump people like me because I'm gay. It's like, okay.

Yeah, you got some interesting character. Oh my God. Yeah, that's weird, the curb stump, because I had, I've had a curb stump one before. It's like such a specific one, though. Is it from the same community? It's the same person. Yes. Yes.

Genuinely, yes. So maybe it's just this one guy. Just admit, it's the James Woods Twitter followers. Just admit that finally. Yeah, it's the Woods. The Woodsers.

I don't think I've ever had any real threats like that. I've had people just be mad. Because, I mean, as you guys know, it's like if you, people can't just, people can't usually justify someone just not liking something that they really enjoy.

Yeah. Or like love or something. and just be like, you know, people can just have different taste. So, yeah, usually it's just, like, getting called names or whatever. But I don't think anyone's ever, like, actually threatened violence on me for that. I don't know. Yeah, you know, if you depends on which communities you talk to. And, you know, sometimes if you'd upset certain people in a certain way, you'd see some weird things come out.

So. Is it like a Marvel or Star Wars crowd or is it something different? I'm not going to say anything. And I'm going to see if, I'm going to see if they think they know who. They are. That's us. That's definitely us, boys. Yeah.

Yeah. Let's do this one from Butter 4,67. Question for Meat Canyon, but of course, other sides can answer it as well. How do you choose as to what topics you want to make a video on since I see you tend to make videos on current trending topics such as Sneaker versus Charlie and XQC being a hoarder? Yeah, I guess you've got to make that decision quick, huh, if it is more of a trending topic and you've got to be convinced that the couple of week turnaround

is worth it. Yeah, I think that if there's something worth a narrative there, or that can derive inspiration for something cool, I think, is usually what I like to do. Otherwise, not, it's literally just a gut feeling of like what's interesting. You create so much shit that, like,

after a while, like, the aspect of just making something isn't as fun. So you really have to dig deep for actual, like, you know, what gets you excited, which sometimes will be the thing that isn't the most algorithm-friendly, but you just have to make shit for yourself, I think. But yeah, no, I mean, you know, can you think of, can the mind breed a fun idea that's applicable if so? But the trendy stuff is just literally for engagement and stuff.

But, yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, what, what, what gets your, uh, your dick tingling? It's kind of the idea. Yeah. I watched the flash fully knowing it was something that I was, you know, either going to find funny bad or like excruciatingly painful. So made a video out of that and it was tough to make it as in I didn't enjoy myself and it took way too long. But it's doing well, so that's nice. Was it excruciating or was it funny bad?

It was just, it was painful. It was absolutely painful. It was not even funny. I found it funny bad. Yeah, I saw the trailers for it. And as soon as I saw Michael Keaton, I was just like, God has abandoned us. Like, there's no rhyme or reason. Yeah, yeah, it is pathetic.

Which is a shame. I love Michael Keaton. It's not anything against him, but it's just the idea of that, like, Marvel trying to be cute, like, or DC trying to be cute like that. You're just like, oh, dude. Please. Writing a trend. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it's just sad. Let's do this one then from V for Volta. Do you think there's some truth to there being a negative impact on the film literacy and media comprehension of the wider population? Due to a current lack of aspiring filmmakers actually engaging with or expressing any important fundamental works of cinema from Alexa Bergman, Dreyer, Powell, Mizaguchi and many others. While I don't think you have to necessarily like or enjoy these films, being able to at least learn what's possible from the experiences seems fairly invaluable to actualising your own ideas on screen as effectively as you can. I personally believe someone of immense talent can still instinctively. produce something of authenticity and quality regardless of what films they've been exposed to

but I've heard plenty of outcry about this from some channels I follow by all means respect by sorry this is written a bit strangely and by all means respect who claimed to struggle to see what's so distinguished or special about most critically acclaimed new releases in the grand scheme of things and feel

that standards are lowering the audiences and critics are like gradually becoming way more forgiving and less insightful than they should be over all I don't know if that's a trend that I agree with. I don't know if that's an observation. Is it actually fooling or is it is it just like now everyone just has a voice so you're just hearing? Yeah, maybe you just hear more stupid people. Like I think that the media criticism, media literacy, like these are more accessible than ever.

People are having these conversations on the internet where, you know, it's clickbait at this point to be like, ooh, ending explained. And a lot of this, a lot of the times videos like that that are doing that kind of clickbait aren't promoting anything substantive. But the reason why someone would want to click on that in the first place is to, you know, hopefully get some sort of substantive dissection or explanation or conversation out of it. I feel like I don't think we're going in the trend that was implied by the commenter, but yeah, obviously there is value to not just consuming more different types of media, things that are, you know, hopefully outside of your bubble if you have a small bubble, but also hearing different people's perspectives on media,

even ones that you might disagree with, I think is like a healthy thing to do for your own brain. Yeah. I think there will always be artists too that are wanting to be respected. Like people, there will always be an artist that actually wants to do things like in a authentic way. And I think that comes from also like it's like with anything though, right? Like I mean, it's like when you, if you got into like metal, you might just watch like the hits when you're younger, but you want to dive deeper and go farther and find new things. So I think that like exploration and people like wanting to find new stuff always happen. But at the same time, there will always be garbage.

And there'll be there'll be more garbage now just because of what like studios are willing to risk on. But I always think that there will be like an authentic voice for, you know, film. Like I think that that's just, I think that like that that's just always something that will be there. People who are wanting to take influence from things outside of their comfort zones or try new things. and find something that gives them that thrill of watching a movie for the first time. Like, I think that's always something that will be in the narrative. Yeah, I don't think it's specifically a film literacy and media comprehension problem as much as it's just a general literacy and education problem in general.

Just maturity. Yeah, yeah. I think just a lot of it, too, like I said, I think it's just a mouth. So much of it is just what studios are like willing to risk on and also like how much like those studios control the market and stuff too. So it's just, that shit's just blasted in your face way more. Like reboots and all that kind of stuff.

That's just what people want you to sit down and watch because it's the lowest risk kind of thing. And immaturity comes from that too of like people who just like want to consume garbage. That's just going to happen. All right. One more question. Okay. Let's do one more. Let's end on this one.

Let's do it. From 2021 stinks already. Maybe a bit on the nose for this episode. But what do you consider to? be a film that utilizes grotesque imagery in the best way. Who is a fitting one to end up? Grotesque imagery. The thing.

I mean, yeah. You gotta probably go the thing. The thing. If I'd like branch out even more, I would, it's like deeper cuts. I love Stuart Gordon's from beyond. It's another great one where it's just like really gross and fun. Same with like Hellraiser, I think is a great one too. Yeah, that's a good one.

Absolutely. there's a lot I mean yeah there's a lot of fucking movies that do that I mean fucking video drum I think does that in a good way yeah American whale wolf transformation sequence

Naked lunch Wolf Creek Wolf Creek The main antagonist is Body Horror within itself Just looking at them Yeah Yeah

Even the flash has some grotesque imagery You're absolutely correct Flash is just terrifying. Human centipede. I thought I said I, there's none of people that I mean, I've seen a lot of people that like that I think the French martyrs is a great one too for that. I don't think enough people have seen that. I think martyrs, the French one, not the English version is very, very good.

And it has a lot of disturbing imagery. Not so much like a centric body horror, but I, well, I mean, it is body horror, but it isn't like mutating and stuff. It is just like a pretty fucking difficult watch, I think, for some of the stuff going on in the film. But it's just so well done. I love that movie. So good. I'm such a great one.

I'm also going to shout out Gore Verbinski's The Ring. Because, you know, just having that imagery on the videotape, I don't remember how much of it is one-to-one with Ring You because I love the ring so much that I've only seen Ring You once. So I couldn't even tell you which film to give credit. But a lot of the imagery in the ring is just so memorable and, like, terrifying. Very iconic. Yeah. It's still scary to me. Maybe I just watched it at the right age, but yeah.

Yeah, I think a lot of that stuff sticks with you. Like, looking back at it now, I was thinking like the lighthouse and shit. And I'm like, God, I feel like if I was in theaters today, I might be like, this is so cheesy. But I think, like, it's just, it's perfectly, I watched it at the perfect time in my life. I feel like to. Just love it. Isn't there the lighthouse in that movie? Don't they go to the lighthouse?

In the ring? Oh yeah. There's a thing you're talking about the lighthouse is in the lighthouse the film. No, no, no, no. I meant like just the sequence of her like going to like a lighthouse where you're just like what the fuck. But then again, it's like I watched it the perfect time to where now it's just, it's all just so charming and fucking horrific and fun.

And if I had to do one last one too, it would be the, I think funny games is another one that's like pretty horrific and like gruesome in that nature of just like but they don't show it the entire point of that just being like nonsensical violence or just like watching violence and just like i think that's a great one too i love that one games do are you have funny games u.s or funny games uh austria german i like i like the performance of the u.s one the guys a little more than that i like it's it's it's the exact same movie but i do think that the guys like that the head uh antagonist teen yeah is very good brady corbett has much more of the character than the same character did in the german one yeah and i yeah

really great one i love that director too i yes another great he's my favorite great guy actually really yes yes i thought your favorite i thought your favorite i thought your favorite was uh holy mountain i thought you were going to be like a tarkovsky guy hudorowski or tartarowsky or tartar My man. Tardarovsky. Tartorovsky. Tartoros. No, yeah.

I mean, like, the Holy Man is currently my favorite movie, but it doesn't necessarily mean that my favorite director. Michael Hanuky is that, yeah, that's right. Because people, if, I, not enough people have seen a lot of his film just because I think they're, I guess, just foreign or whatever, but the piano, the piano teacher always stands out to me is just like one of the literal, most uncomfortable movies I've ever seen in my life. Yeah.

We did that on the podcast. podcast actually too. Oh, good. Cool, yeah. And now basically Black Swan just stole every aspect of that movie. Is what it feels like. Every time I see it.

I've been wanting to watch Cashet too. I haven't seen Cash. Oh, Cash is amazing. That might be my favorite, but I got to see it again. Sorry, Alex, you said you haven't seen it? No, no, I've seen Cash. I just didn't see it.

All right. I got one more shout out, sorry. Just Titaine a couple years ago. That's got some good grotesque imagery. Titen? Quite Cronen again, actually. Tittin. I think it's pronounced it.

Titen. Teton. I know. It sucks. It's fucking French. That's actually a good recommend too for Cronenberg. I know people compare that director with Cronenberg a lot with like raw and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah.

Roar. Ror. Sorry. Let's look it down that truck again. Sorry, everybody. All right. Well, thank you all for the questions. And thank you so much for joy.

Joining as a guest, Hunter slash Meat Canyon slash Papa Meat slash Super Meat Boy. Of course. Would you, do you want to plug your socials? Like you have a YouTube channel, anything else you want to promote or whatever? Yeah. I mean, just type in Meat Canada or Papa Meat, you'll find me. You know what's funny? The first time I read your channel name, I thought it was.

Meek crayon. Yeah. I thought it was meat crayon, which is a very disturbing suburb. And I was like, a lot of people, yeah. A lot of people. A lot of people have told that to me as well. And I didn't know what Meat Creon was until I went to the unfortunate subreddit. And then I was like, oh, there you go.

And sometimes in my own subreddit, we get some of those fun meat cream posts. And I have to be like, and I have to be like, well. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, wrong one. Same with even just like people posting steaks. Which is like, I think they're just looking for a meat subreddit. Oh. Just cooked a steak.

So it's a very odd subreddit that I have. I, yeah. Well, now with AI technology, You can have an image of a canyon in the texture of meat. God, we're living in good times. Yeah, it's truly blessed times. All right. There's a recommendation for next episode.

It's a fucking, it's a huge, we're doing a huge thing next episode. We got two guests coming on. We got Colin and April. You might know Colin is Colin from Canada. I don't know what April goes as. or if there's like a you know like a i'm not going to say your last name because i don't know if that's public but anyway calling and april are going to get a guest on the next episode it's episode 150 by the way uh and we're going to talk about all the cube films so cube

Wow. Cube two hypercube, Cube Zero, and then the Japanese Cube remake. Yeah, we're going to talk about all that. It's going to be packed. It's going to be long. It's going to, who boy. It's going to, it's going to be big. We've got to watch them all soon because we're recording that one early. So it's going to be my week. Less than a week. Yeah. And if you so, yeah, anybody listening to home or you don't want to be spoiled for the cube films, then watch them before the next episode comes out. These episodes come out. every two weeks, but you can listen to them early. By going to sardonicast.com and signing up for premium, it's only $2 a month. Also, patreon.com slash sardonicast will do the same thing.

You can feel good about yourself and support the show. We got merch link in the description. Does our merch link work right now, or do we have to fix that? I think it's working. They've just taken some of the products away because of Ralph leaving. Yeah, we're figuring some stuff out. We're at a transitionary period. Get those shirts because they're not going to be on sale forever.

we're going to have a new design pretty soon. Well, who knows how soon. We're busy. We're busy boys. There's a Sardonicast Highlights channel as well. You can subscribe to that on YouTube. Hit the bell. Subscribe to the regular channel.

Listen to this, whatever. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Thanks so much for guesting. Thank you. This was a fun episode. Thank you, Hunter. Thanks for having me. Check out Meat Canyon.

And do not check out meat crayon. Don't do that one. No, check it out. Fuck it. Why not? Roll the dice. Just do it. Fuck it.

Live a little. Have a happy Thousandth Planet, everybody. Thanks for listening. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.