Sardonicast - Sardonicast 151: FNAF, KOTFM, Birth

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

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All right, three, two, one. They say that lunch is the most important meal of the day. I thought it was breakfast. Well, some people say that, but it's just a theory. Oh, shit. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

Movie theory. Oh, fuck. I'm Adam from your movie sucks. That was a quote from Killers of the, flower moon this is Sardonicast I thought that was from birth It was from birth

I lied you're right I'm Alex from Aichi And uh Seeing as you didn't do it I thought there might be a small chance You'd do this but I'm gonna do this one Go for it Five nights at Freddy's

Is this where you wanna be I just don't get it Why do you want to stay There you go Got the full gambit now Is that from the There's a lyrics Okay

The Living Team's day no Yeah I was about to say yeah, living tombstone. Yeah. They got in the credits. I hope they got a big fat paycheck for that. I hope they got the fattest fucking paycheck. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, they definitely deserved it. Did you see that Matt Pat had to wear the name tag that says Ness? No. Like, that just seems like kind of an insult, doesn't it? I guess I hadn't considered that. You know, I'd forgotten Matt Pat was even in it. That's how this film is going in and out, my brain. It's definitely an in-and-out type experience.

yeah definitely so uh this is another Mario movie in the sense that um if you don't like it you're bad is it that level is it Mario movie it's not that it's not exactly that level this time people are a bit less you know every single if you look at every single review of this film positively like you'd search through the IMDB litterbox anything like I don't if there's a single positive review that doesn't explicitly state, I am a super fan and I just liked seeing the things in it from the games. Like they'll use vague terminology like, it was scary, but they'll never say why or what made it scary.

They'll be like, it was fun. They won't say why it was fun. They'll never say what made it fun. They'll just say, I am a fan of the games. Critics are crazy. Yeah. No, it's funny that because like depending on the property. it seems to the expectations with that stuff seem to be all over the place like the fan base is either

way more critical of the thing or like in this case i feel like i've seen a lot of fnaf fans especially on our slash uh fnaf over there oh you're on the separate with all these like of course i'm man um with all these like these kind of criticisms there i'm like i just don't even know what you're talking about i don't you know like they have all these specific things like do william ashton not do this and like why was this happening this year and why did Cheka blah you know all this kind of stuff that's fine like that's normally what I imagine

like the fans to do but then you have Nintendo fans who are yet they're the inverse and they're like it's it's IP I like you have to like it as well because it's IP that's from yeah it hasn't been nearly well I haven't released my video yet so I don't actually

know but from what I can tell it hasn't been nearly as rabid we were we were sort of seeing like little bits of it, little inklings. There were people that saw the early critical reviews and were like, what a load, get a load of this guy. Like, I think, I think on IGN, they were like criticizing that there wasn't much of the security camera element in it. When it's like, that's the entire gameplay is the security camera. And that brings out a bit of the fear element is like, oh, where are they? Blah, blah, blah. You know, look, you. You know, look, you. You

You could incorporate that into a film. And so that is a legitimate criticism. And it is a criticism that now, after most people have seen it, a lot of people are saying. But at the time when it was just critic reviews and no person that's not a critic had seen it, and they saw the review. And these fans were really not wanting to hear criticism. They were like, oh, yeah, this idiot thinks that you should have just been looking at a security monitor for 90 minutes. get a load of this guy

just totally trying to invalidate people's criticisms before they've even seen the film isn't that crazy isn't that weird? It's super I can't understand why people like why?

It's children. I think it's just children. Yeah and FNAF does have a big child fan base and speaking of yeah speaking of like Nintendo and like Pokemon has a reputation for being like baby's first RPG

right? If I'd notice at Friday is kind of like baby's first horror movie. Oh yeah, it's literally. This is like eight year olds. Yeah, I mean it was baby's first horror game. That's what it was forever. It was literally, the entire game is just jump scare.

That's it. And then the fans will be like, no, but the lore. It's like, yeah, you have to, you have to dive into the jump scares and enjoy all of that to be even remotely interested in trying to figure out the lore. The law that Matt Pat basically invented himself. Yeah. Just pulling these invisible strings out and like, oh, yeah, this is probably this, right? Yeah.

The creators, like, yeah, okay, that could be the story, I guess. Exactly. They had the opposite reaction as Toby Fox, which is where the Sands Ness Blender thing came from. Right, yeah, yeah. So Toby Fox was like, hey, don't do that. This is weird. Which is why it's funny that he's wearing the name tag. It's like, are you trying to bully him?

Did Scott Cawthon be like, you have to wear this if you want to be in the movie? That's what it seems like. What a, like, meme? There's no reason it had to be as boring as this, though, man. What a forgettable, just pointless film. There's, like, so many angles you could take, like, to at least make it entertaining, you know? Oh, there's a lot of things. It's an hour and 40 minutes long, and they take the most, it just reminded me of, like, M3 guns,

so many other, like, Blumhouse. It was worse than M3 again. It probably was a bit worse. I don't know. I was kind of equally bored, to be honest, by both of those. But it's just, you know, similar things, but it's like, there's like a fraction of a budget in there, and every time they get close to doing something with it

or doing something creative with the premise, they'll, like, just have a whole scene in the woods with, like, a bunch of kids just standing there. And it's like, it's always just, like, dancing around these ideas, and it can never fully commit to anything. And it's always, like, the most basic, obvious. Yes.

Just nothing. It is a very nothing movie. It is very boring. It has no stakes ever at any point, any moment. There's no stakes. There's no threat. You're not even like, you're not even expecting to see anything even remotely entertaining or gory. Like, I don't know what you were expecting.

I don't know what anyone was expecting. I don't know how anyone was entertained with this. I was kind of, I was expecting, there's like, there's stuff you could do, right? There are little influences you could take. I thought, you know, the Weeping Angels from Doctor Who as like a visual way of showing these things moving around. That would be a start. Okay. But they kind of go, they go like the complete inverse, right, where it's like, you have these pretty cool Jim Henson, like, outfits, costumes for all the characters.

But the way they're used, the way they utilized, it always just looks like someone in it. They put a bunch of CG over that. And then a bunch of, like, art. artificial lighting or something. They never looked like they were a part of the environment. It really kind of defeats the purpose of having the real puppets there. It never felt like a character was interacting with something in their environment. It felt like it might as well have been completely computer generated.

So you spend a bunch of money on nothing. Yeah. Yeah. No, it definitely felt that way. Like nothing was utilized to the degree it should have been. And just anchoring the whole thing around the Josh Hutzsch, Oh, my God. Hutchison.

Hutchison. Hutterson. Oh, my God. Yeah, there's Josh Hutchison character who, uh, he's got this whole angle with his daughter, not his daughter, his sister that he's trying to protect, but there's all that angle going on. But it's like, man, it just did not need to be, be this. Just strip it down to its core. Honestly, a five episode series on a streaming platform, each one like 20 minutes with like

this. similar level of production, give each episode a focus on one of the FNAF characters, just keep it simple, scale it way back, actually set it in the establishment, get the bite of 86 in there or whatever. 87. 87. So my FNAF lawyers, it's clearly all over the place. Yeah, there's just, I don't know, it's just something so lazy about this approach.

Incredibly. Well, what's crazy is this kind of went through a weird, production hell almost. Yeah, basically. Like, there was an entirely different director, and they were working with Scott Cothon, who, you know, is the creator of Five Nights of Freddy's, and he said, oh, yeah, I'm totally into what this director and writer is doing. We're totally working together, and this is the best thing ever, and then a month later, they stopped working with each other, and they had to find a new director because they couldn't agree on anything. It's like, okay. That's funny.

I didn't know about this. And yeah, so yeah, they changed directors and then went a completely different route. I don't know how far through the production they were when they changed directors, but it seemed like they were doing shit for a while. So it's very silly. And the fact that they barely explore anything in the movie or barely do anything, and you're right, it is centered around this like, oh, I want to take care of my sister. but those other kids at the diner had a plan to make him not.

Like that was the whole point of them robbing the place is they wanted to frame him so that he couldn't look after his sister and I don't remember why. Me neither. Yeah. Yeah, it's just baby's first horror movie. So many goofy decisions like, even just sounds like the sound design,

right? When those FNAF animatronics are walking around, there's like this, they sound like mecks, you know, like running around. It's like so goofy, it's not scary. Yeah, well, these like dream sequences. So many kid characters as well. Yeah, the dream sequences were so figuring out.

Oh, God, the girl was the worst part. His sister? Mm-hmm. I was about to commit Minecraft. That was insane. That was like top one most annoying child actors. Like, holy shit, that was unbearable. They're already fighting an uphill battle with these like kind of Blumhouse horror

movies and the kind of effort they put in. So I know, let's make our lives easier by having a bunch of child actors. Yeah. Let's have a bunch of kid characters. I know like the FNAF characters, I guess, spoilers are revealed to be all like kids that were murdered by the purple guy. There's no such thing as spoiling this movie. Anybody who would possibly enjoy this movie has memorized the lore already.

Like, there's no crossover between any, like, you can't spoil this movie. It's not possible. Yeah. I guess that's part of what was bugging me about it, where it's like, the film almost like acknowledges in just the way it was made and the way it presents itself that like it didn't need to do anything. No. No, it didn't try because it didn't need to and nobody cares. It had already made its budget back by selling the streaming rights before it even released. It had made its budget back by having five nights and Freddy's in the title. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like that's how it made its budget bag. It's a huge IP, yeah. Yeah, they'd have to just do the absolute minimum, which they did here. and people go see it, which is what has happened. You have to see it to be a part of a cultural conversation. Yeah, it is one of those for some reason. For this movie to do anything, for this movie to be scary or entertaining or compelling or interesting in the slightest,

for this movie to be good in any way, it would have to be a complete bastardization of the source material because the games suck. The games are terrible. They're not scary. They look like shit Like you would have to create something entirely different from the games for you to have a good movie So I'm not surprised by what this was

Do you think it was better than Willie's Wonderland Remember that one? Let's see what rating I gave Willie's Wonderland Because that was also a very forgettable Very forgettable film All right, 2021 I gave that a 5 out of 10 So I liked that more

You liked that a lot more Yeah But it was also incredible forgetable. Incredibly. It was also just like I shouldn't have watched it. I could have not watched it and my life would be no different.

Mm-hmm. Well, yeah, that's what this FNAF movie is kind of like, too. Give me, give me like a good scene from this movie. Give me a moment you remember. Okay, you know what? I do have one. Okay. Matthew Lillard had good screen presence.

I liked what he was doing. He did. But again, it's like one of these elements that's like the Hanson puppetry. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Like he got this awesome actor. Yeah, he does have a good screen presence. So I'm a big fan.

It's weird. Yeah. I think he's one of those underrated, yeah, screen presences. But yeah, he's in, what, two scenes? He's in the beginning scene and then he comes back at the end. Yeah, that was a weird reveal. It was a weird review. It's just all the focus was in all the least interesting places.

Like, if you could have had, you know, Josh and Lilliard. There was a focus? What focus? If it could have had a focus, that would have been nice, to be honest. Something to lean back on outside of just that animatronics moving chairs around and winking at each other. Yeah. Here's what made the movie really fucking boring for me is the fact that there were like two sets and it's over an hour and a half long.

It's almost two hours long. And there's like two sets in the entire movie. And they just go back and forth and nothing happened. Yeah, way too long. So why would you not do some kind of bottle movie type thing, you know? Yeah. Like, just, just copy the game. Copy the game.

All this setup is just like so irritating and dull and boring and like setting up this guy and his relationship with his sister. It's like, blah, blah, blah, let's just start the movie with the phone call. Genuinely, just start the exact same way as the game. Let's go from there. Let's try to trace back the decision making process, right? So assume that the character, the main character that you play in Five Nights at Freddy's or whatever, let's assume that they're old enough to have this job. So you're forced to have a character that is above the target demographic age.

So you are then to make a character that is relatable for the target demographic, you have to throw in the sister character. You don't have to, but that's what they're thinking. They're like, no, you have to have a character that the kids can relate to because they're the one seeing the movies. They have to be able to project themselves onto a baby. Right? So that's why we get that, I think.

If I could trace back the decision-making process, that's what it seems like. But I don't know, but it's a 15 in the UK. So, like, I don't know. No, I know, but it's a pretend horror movie, though. So PG-13 for the USA, and I believe it was probably PG in Canada. I don't think it was 14A. um oh alberta and british columbia it was 14a somehow ontario also pg okay 13 plus in quebec okay i was wrong but either way you can still have a kid watch the movie with their brother or sister there it's not

like oh you have to have a full adult with you for a pg 13 movie or a 15 movie or whatever as long as there is one person in the party that's over that age and even then, I don't know if people at the movie theater are really going to be carding 13-year-olds for the 15-year-old movie or carding 12-year-olds for the 13-year-old movie. The reason why a lot of Blumhouse and lazy horror movies wind up going PG-13 is explicitly to get younger people in even lower than the age of 13. The reason why Mithrigan changed its rating, changed its movie to make a PG-13. 13 movie is because the dance got big on TikTok, right?

So, yeah. The whole point is to get kids in a movie. It's all like, yeah, yeah, it's all on TikTok. The whole point is that it's a horror movie for children. That's the whole point. So I don't know what anyone possibly could have expected. I don't know, like you can still make things for children though and it'd be like entertaining, you know, or some cleverness or creativity.

Like there's no. Is there a good horror movie for children? Because the ones that are good, so if you do like Coraline or something. Yeah, exactly. We're both thinking of Coraline. That is a good horror movie for children. It's also good for adults. It's, but it's traumatizing.

Like, I would almost recommend even if it is, what, PG-13 or PG or whatever, even if it's safe for children because nobody says the word fuck in it or nobody, you don't see a booby. Even if it's safe for children in that way, I would argue maybe kids shouldn't watch that because it's kind of traumatizing and it would scare the shit out of them, right? It's kind of funny how psychological horror doesn't fit into the rating system as to whether or not it's inappropriate for children, but maybe it shouldn't because it's entirely subjective. Still, as long as you're making something that kids want to watch and it's a horror movie, I'm not sure you can satisfy that many adults. Because there's barely anything that scares me for adult horror movies, right? There's barely anything in horror movies made for adults that I like.

Yeah Yeah I don't know like Take like gremlins for example right I haven't seen it in a while She's using the animatronics The puppetry That's like yeah that's a lot more memorable

It's a lot more likable People are just gonna enjoy that Even scary shit like You know the dark crystal or whatever That's got the big chippets And I feel like it can be done Like I just There's just no excuse for this laziness

You know But you just listed two movies That I don't think kids enjoy Gremlins Gremlins? Gremlins Well, like, Labrins as well? I would say so.

Yeah, I love Gremlins when I was a kid. I don't know if I'm just weird for that. I liked Gremlins when I was probably 13, but I don't know how young we're talking. I think FNAF is trying to appeal to the eight demographic is what I'm saying. Right? I think it's just because it's PG-30, I think it's 100,000, aiming for lower demographic.

How old was the sister character? How old was she supposed to be? nine or ten seven whatever she was supposed to be is what they imagine the target demographic because that's why she's in the movie

is to relate to the target demographic so yeah I don't know what is confusing about that even more so then is why have any gore or violence at all you could have a lower rating was there yeah like Freddy he like bites someone in half

right and you see it for like a few frames and there's like a big that happens I don't think there's any There's like a bit of blood on a guy's hand when he's killed by one of the animatronics and it like presses against it. When Matthew Lillard or Lillard, I don't remember her to say his name, when he was getting stabbed at the end by the costume, that was probably the most gory part. But most of it was just like, oh, you cut away from it. Yeah.

And again, I don't think the, I don't think the SIP even needs gore or violence. They could have done it all. It could all be implied. That's how it's all worked. from the beginning with this franchise anyway it's all implied stuff like oh but that takes talent imagining being pushed oh yeah yeah that's the the filmmaking part this isn't fucking funny games right you can't you can't have the audience imagine the fear of what's happening

unless you know what you're doing this you kind of need to see it otherwise it's not happening but then like the the tone kind of is kind of bumbling and comedic as well at the same time like they go for jokes you know like the whole taxi driver and then like the marvel dialogue ghost children possessing giant robots and this kind of stuff the guy in the opening kill was doing weird screams as though he was like in a fucking tim allen movie in the 90s or something like oh oh like there should have been some like orchestral 90s silly Disney music playing Apparently that was supposed to be Markiplier's character is what somebody said, but I don't know. I wouldn't believe a single thing about this movie without researching it yourself because

since it's a property for children, there's a lot of random misinformation that gets spread. I remember people were saying, did you know that Five Nights at Freddy's is going to have a three hour long runtime? And I immediately said, no, it's not. You heard that from TikTok. that is not a real thing that's going to happen. And now there's like fake tweets coming up from obvious parody accounts. It's like disbussin film instead of discuss and film. But it has the same logo and it was like there will be a mini series version that will actually be a five-hour cut. And that got retweeted 20,000 times and I fucking guarantee you that most of the people retweeting that are not.

Ha ha, this is a funny joke, but are just people that actually believe it. They're hyped, yeah. Yeah. Because it's not that funny of a joke. That wouldn't have that many retweets. And also the three-hour misinformation. Like, it's already happened multiple times. TikTok is just filled with lies.

Yeah, apparently that's how, like, kids look for information now. Oh, yeah. Search for on TikTok. Yeah, well, I'll find my news from TikTok. Hooray. Yay. The algorithm. Yeah, I don't know, man.

God, what else even happened in here? The balloon boy mid-credits. Sting, another bit of humor in there. I don't know. I don't remember. Yeah, I can't say I blame you Just boring human characters boring subplots Yeah, just showing them moving around too much and it looked goofy But dark crystal is so much scarier than this and it wasn't even intended to be a horror movie Like that's the scariest like puppetry I've ever seen. Oh, yeah, you just I mean it Jim Henson's name being attached to this film is just embarrassing like obviously the guy's dead but his company the fact that they

advertise that and then just covered it with CG anyway and you can't tell like obviously it wasn't utilized like you just wasted money you wasted the fucking money in the games they move fast that's why they're able to jump scare you is because they move fast they never moved fast in this once they were like there was like fucking George A Romero zombies like Okay, you can just walk away and you're fine. You can just walk away from them. Who cares?

They were trying to make them more like endearing, unlikable. It seemed like. They were trying to save you or something. Yeah. And they're only doing what they're doing because they're being controlled by. They're your friends. Yeah. Because I guess they're supposed to be innocent kiddies.

By the merchandise. Yeah. It's very merchandisable, isn't it? Yeah. You see it. Yeah. You see it in like every shot like Golden Freddy figurines and stuff. And apparently like, I don't know how many of these characters you know, but like,

I saw this tweet going around saying like the Golden Freddy, I was dying when the Golden Freddy showed up at the end. I was like what? When did that happen? Is it Golden Freddy? Supposedly the, the, the Freddy that gets into the taxi is a different character. Oh. To the main Freddy, the Golden Freddy.

So that was, that was supposed to be like a. big golden Freddy reveal or something. You know, all I'm saying is there was no fucking surprise to me that Scott was able to pump one of these games out every fucking year. It's because there's nothing to them. They look like shit. Yeah, that's true. Have you ever looked at how many of these FNAF games are actually out there?

800. He was making like one a year for like, for a while. Yeah. He was making maybe two a year at some point. He was just pumping him out. Now it's like a different genre. It's like a first person shooter now with like, Freddy's like a good guy and he's all like 70s disco inspired. It's like really bizarre.

They've leaned into the fandom obviously because I guess there's just so much. It's just such a fan base there. Yeah. A bunch of queer furries in children. All these stories that keep adapting these like games or books. or whatever and there's like a blueprint there of some kind and yeah going back to the screen thing like why would you not like the scary part and I admit the games are not scary and they're definitely not for me but what I'd imagine the scariest part is yeah you're you're

flicking through the different cameras and as you're doing that the image is changing because the animatronics are moving around but usually in a way you can only just see for a fraction of a second you know or like it's implied movement much scarier or like really don't do that go back to the camera and it's like, oh, the doll's there now and it's not moving, so it must have moved when I was looking at the other camera. But it's scary because it wasn't there before. Like, there's reasons why jump scares are effective on a large amount of people. There's ways to build and instill tension. There's ways to do it. This film doesn't even acknowledge as a reference doing it. Like, it doesn't even hint at doing it, which is just so confusing

because you'd think that that would be on the top of someone's list in terms of, hey, what do people like about the games? What's successful about the games? Right? The kids were scared because of this. You would want to include maybe some part of that. But it seemed like they didn't really want to be scary at any moment in time. And they were just doing a thing where they were including shots of characters that people could go,

dude, Fasbear! But in a kid voice. And that's the whole point of the movie. And it doesn't matter. and what else is there to say? Two out of ten. Two out of ten. This is annoying.

It's stupid. Yeah. One star for me is genuinely the only bit of FNAF content I would recommend. Markiplier playing the first game on the hardest difficulty. That is more entertaining than this. Yeah, because I don't know if you've ever seen how they do the difficulty options in this game. But man, when you go on like the expert mode or whatever it's called, you've got to be flicking through these cameras like half a second. So like Markiplier is like going.

insane he's been like playing it for like 20 days trying to get the perfect ending or whatever that is way more entertaining than this movie five nights at freddie's 20 20 20 20 complete yeah that's the 11 minutes long is it only take 11 minutes yeah yeah yeah I think it's like edited down like cut down it says the word complete in the title just skip to like a section where you can see you like the gameplay's got to whip out in order to complete this difficult because it's like it's like nuts it's not even like a horror game anymore. It's just like, it's more like a reaction thing. It's really bizarre. That's funny. You know, I think somebody left a comment saying, unironically, the movie would be more entertaining

with Markiplier in the corner. And I agree. If it went really meta, if let's say that was like even like a feature on the like a Blu-ray release, they're like, we're doing the entire movie with Markiplier in the corner. That would be interesting. You know. If you could toggle it too. You could have Map Pat, you could have Jack Septico Oh shit! Yeah, like you could do that And it would be kind of funny. Yeah, that should be the sequel.

It would be at least funny that it exists. Hey, they did that in Free Guy pretty much. They had streamers in there, like in the corner reacting. They could do that here. Why not? Who cares? Honestly, who cares? This video game onslaught, it's here. I'm just making lots of money, so it's here to stay.

The most money. It's making the most money. It was Blumhouse's most successful release. the biggest opening weekend for any Blumhouse film, even though it released on streaming the same day. The box office numbers, I think, only from the theaters. I was surprised that they announced that and that that happened because I figured, oh, are they like worried about this or something?

But it's more the opposite. It's more just, they're like, it doesn't matter. Kids will watch it in the theater for the memes. They'll want to TikTok themselves in the theater. So they'll want to. to have a fist fight in the theater. Yeah, absolutely garbage. Yeah, one out of ten.

Well, one out of five, sorry, two out ten. Yeah. I'm just never going to think about this ever again. No. There will be a sequel, though. We'll think about it then. Oh, yeah, there's going to be, there are going to be many sequels if I had to guess. I got five.

I reckon there's going to be five, five nights. Five, five nights. Five, five nights. Okay. Um, Scorsese. Killers of the Flower Moon. We watched a movie. Yeah.

Yeah. Nice Whiplash going from FNAF to this. But, uh, yeah. I have a lot of thoughts about this movie. Yeah. Um, because it really should be, it should be a slam dunk for what I'm looking for. Scorsese.

It's like a three and a half hour long epic, uh, Western. Fantastic production. The cast is insane. intriguing story. But the more time I'm sitting with this, there's just more things I'm lingering on. There's more ideas left and right that are just not, they're not connecting with me.

That's not sitting with me in a way like, like the Irishman did. Same. I don't know. I feel like I'm having an inverse reaction to the broader response to these movies. When the Irishman came out, yeah, people enjoyed it, but there was a lot of like discourse about like,

who's going to sit through this three hour long movie with old people? This is boring. whereas like here the the the runtime is even longer and I haven't really seen that kind of discourse or discussion as much whereas I feel like that three hour runtime in the Irishman was pretty much completely justified to me maybe here and there you could trim a little bit I have to admit that there was a lot of times I was kind of questioning

like especially in the second act of this movie like where's the point where I'm justifying that runtime? Never. It's never justified. Because it is immense. It's immense. Three hours, 26 minutes. That is beefy. You're asking a lot. Yeah. It's really funny because there are people, so I think I have the same. Actually, no, I think my rating is lower than yours, but I will save that for the end. Yeah. But some, immediately, there was a discussion in my subreddit. And I think it might have gotten brigaded from some other subreddit because there was some, Yeah, there are some people. You look at their profiles and they leave like a really weird comment.

You look at their profiles there. Like they're on the killers of the flower moon like subreddit. Like they're already like mega fans of the movie and it's kind of weird. People were really weirdly hostile to a number without even hearing what I had to say about it, which is not the first time it's happened. But I kind of expect that for, I don't know, fan boy movies. but now I'm realizing that Scorsese has kind of turned into that, not necessarily his movies,

but the culture surrounding his movies. He is a big enough name that there are a good enough amount of people that, I guess, I don't know, if this is exactly accurate, but it feels like some people see directors or films as like kind of sacred institutions that, you know, there's, like some sort of objective opinion you're supposed to have about it. I don't understand getting worked up over a number when no one said anything about it yet.

And you're just making up, like you're just imagining how I justify the number and getting mad about it. Yeah. What difference does it make? Like, you have your number. I'll have my number. Okay. Chill, man.

Yeah. So there were people speculating because of the length. I mean, it's the length not being justified, right? One of my favorite movies of the year about dry grasses was, I think, longer than this, if not very similar. I didn't struggle with that at all. That's a very slow cinema film. Much slower pace, but it is a slightly shorter.

Three hours, 17 minutes, and then killers. 326. So around the same runtime. but this just feels more like kind of a standard narrative that was stretched out or should have had deleted scenes or could have been trimmed down in the editing room. I agree with you in the comparison to the Irishman because in that sense, the story was told over a much longer period of time and much like every other one of Scorsese's gangster epics or whatever we want to call them, the length. does feel justified because it's covering so much and it's like so many different characters, so many different periods of their histories and dynamics. And sure, you could watch it in a miniseries format.

You could split it up in that way. But it doesn't feel like something where it's like, oh, you just told like a 90-minute story in three and a half hours and I don't know why, which is what this felt like. Yeah. A lot of the issue for me was kind of where the story was choosing to place its focus or even the delivery in which you decided to do it in the sense that I know everyone's praise in DiCaprio and that character and I do, I think the performance is pretty good all round and everything that's happening is interesting, but I just feel like for some kind of emotional response or emotional resonance to be there for me. I just needed the information to be trickled out in a way that made me empathize. with these main two characters, this main relationship that you're supposed to buy into and feel the tragedy of that, yeah, that kind of Goodfellers rise and fall of some kind of crime thing going on. My focus was really on the Lilly Gladstone Molly Burkart character. That was where

the kind of heart of the movie was and the massage people. That to me was like the real heart of the movie um like that that that that scene where the uh all the like uh leaders of the osage people or uh oh sage people sorry uh having their discussion about like what where's everyone going like no one is doing anything there's this tragedy going on we're just being picked off like flies and there's no reaction and like those scenes were like fantastic to me i wanted i wanted more of their perspective i wanted or at least for the way it to be trickled out to be more balanced in a way where perhaps you're more with DiCaprio and you maybe don't know quite the levels that he's taking it and it's kind of slowly revealed in a way where I don't know this is all like very intentional like from the get

go it's not really obscured or hidden from you the DiCaprio and his motley crew are kind of villainous and they've got ill intent what it means is it makes it really difficult to get invested in that main relationship because you're just like well decaprio decaprio is like horrifying he's like a He's straight up evil, basically, him and his uncle, and what they all do, they are evil. And unlike kind of that main relationship in something like Goodfellas, he's not like trying and murder his wife. Sure, he's like abusive to her and there's all these kind of elements going on. But this is, I kind of buy that they got together and fell in love in the first place and something

like Goodfellas where I'm still kind of figuring out, like, how do we get to that conclusion here? I just feel like there's just a lot of detail missing, a lot of emotion missing. Because like you should be, you should be really feeling it by the end, that end scene, I guess, spoilers where it's kind of the moment they truly break up where she's trying to get him to admit that he had been poisoning her for months and months. So they're trying to kill her and he won't do it. And I was reading somewhere apparently the, in the real story, in the real life happenings, the uncle character was perhaps poisoning her in a way where earnest characters. didn't quite know it was happening. It's quite that same degree. So there's just, I don't know,

where the sympathies lie and the core investment of this, these relationships, I just needed, I just needed a different angle. I needed, because, like, I'm on the side of the Osage, like,

from the get-go, and that's where the emotion is to me. And just the nature of having the focus on the kind of gang element. I don't know. It just, it puts a certain, Patina over it where it's like, it's almost like nihilistic in a way where, uh, yeah, it's just kind of like a miserable and it's supposed to be highlighting this, this really

dark, disgusting thing in American history. Mm-hmm. This core of like, yeah, you know, just like Goodfell is just like a lot of his movies that are about the corruption, the money corrupts. This is all about all money and just abusing minorities. And man, yeah, I'm kind of all over the place here, but there was something about the core structure that was just not connecting with me. I don't know if it needed a significant intermission in the middle or something, but there was just, when it wrapped up, while there was a lot about the ride that I loved and enjoyed, I loved so many great scenes, so many great characters, like you were just saying, there's countless good characters, all these, like, random character actors coming in and out Oppenheimer style.

But I was thinking about Oppenheimer, actually, and how I feel even more justified in that three-hour runtime being completely justified. I didn't have the same problem, even with this kind of like almost montage style of that editing and all these different characters coming in and out. The core of it was just much more compelling to me in the way it like wrapped up especially. Well, I do like the way the film concludes, especially that second act. There's just like so much, it's like a real sag to me in that second act. I found the second act more entertaining than the first. Really. Personally.

I was really liking how it was building up the tension in that first. stacked where like you know that this this core relationship there is something there that's going to have to break at a certain point and that's kind of like the core um-huh uh drama to me and then it just keeps going and it keeps going and it never really addresses it until like way later um by then it's so long the tension is like no yeah it's okay i kind of want to see some escalation to this um you do get it but it's just i don't know it's just the way it's trickled out. It is not paced properly

in my opinion anyway. It is yeah honestly so the first 90 minutes or maybe two hours I was kind of just waiting for something that I considered to be like a really

great scene and it wasn't it's not like I was watching a bad movie or anything it's not like oh yeah there's so much wrong with it. It was just like this is good but if I'm going to watch a three and a half hour movie. It would better, you know, like, I want it to be, like,

one of the best movies ever made. I wanted to be, like, a fucking masterpiece or something, right? Just justify. I wanted to justify that in the same way, in some way. Otherwise, I'm never going to want to watch it again,

even if I come out of it being like, oh, that was good, right? Whereas, like, maybe an 80-minute movie where I'm like, oh, that was good, then I could want to watch again because it doesn't feel like I, you know, I don't know about anybody else,

but I kind of value my time, and my time is important. Yeah, so I found that During the second half of this movie, or at least the last 90 minutes, things were moving along in terms of what I wanted out of the film narratively in a way that made more sense to me. But then the ending came out of nowhere, which was weird for a movie that dawdled for its entire runtime. I was like, I thought that there would be so much more to it.

And I really loved that last shot. I really loved the, yeah, yes, beautiful. That drum circle. That overheds, yeah. That's like one of two or three shots in the movie where I'm like,

wow, what a great shot or what a great scene. And I should be feeling that throughout, right? So I'm watching the film. One of the first shots of the movie is the oil shot. And it's almost identical to there will be, It's almost an identical shot. True, yeah.

And so immediately I'm just like, okay, well, you know, I guess that's an homage. I'm not going to say it's like a rip-off. And I'm sure you could go further back to before there will be blood to find similar shots. But either way, it got me thinking about that movie, got me thinking about how I'd rather be watching that movie for the majority of the runtime. DiCaprio's performance was great, but there were other points where I was like, you know, I'd rather be watching the Revenant. the set design was great,

but it also kind of reminded me how I'd rather be playing Red Dead Redemption. And so there's a lot of elements of this movie where it's like, yeah, there's some really good production here. But in terms of getting something to stick, in terms of making like something feel as though the runtime is worth it or that I'm getting anything personally out of the experience,

I was really just wishing I was playing or watching other things. things. Yeah, not a bad movie. Just, yeah. They continuously sprinkle in little things that make you think it's going to escalate in certain ways, like when the private investigator gets hired. But that's more of like a, oh, come and gone type thing. Like, it doesn't really, because you're so, you're so centered on DiCaprio. And he's like, yeah, we just kind of sorted him out. And it's not until the FBI come along and start really hammering down all.

characters and get to the moment that's happening that's yeah I was enjoying I was enjoying that whole chunk of the movie yeah and the whole kind of it was it was things moving along like it's it's crazy how long like if you if you try and summarize the sequence of events the whole first fucking two hours of the movie you could say it like a sentence and it's not like they spent the entire time developing the characters it's not like they spent the entire time really getting into all of the details and intricacies. A lot of it was just repeated information. A lot of it was just doing the same thing, but taking longer to do it. And it's like, okay, well, maybe if this was shot like a fucking Nuri Bilge Jelan film, like it was about dry grasses

or something, then I'd be like so into. And also, I don't know if you watched my TIF video about it, but like there's a lot about that film where the way in which it's shot in the slow cinema style is it is super fucking justified. And you can see it playing out in real time of like, oh, I get why you're doing it. I get why you're filming it this way. There's a fucking purpose to it and it works and it makes it better and I'm glad you're doing it in this way. Whereas I'm watching this film and I just can't see any reason what, first of all, it's not like a slow cinema style movie. it's just a slow plot. They just, it's, it might be in the category of just things that are going to be released on streaming.

It's an Apple TV plus movie. And so they don't believe in deleted scenes and they don't believe in trimming things down because they want people to spend longer finishing things on their streaming platform. That's what's weird to bringing up the Irishman though, because that was that was like on Netflix, wasn't it? I saw that in cinema. Yeah, but he's had other, he's, he's had other gangster epics that are that long. So he's, he's already used to that kind of format, whereas this is just a really, this is a standard narrative film that it doesn't need to be three and a half hours long to explain anything. You can do the whole thing in 90 minutes and it would be a better film. And, you know, I don't know, because, yeah, what you're saying about those first couple of hours before everything starts really get.

like getting moving. That is kind of the time where you'd want, yeah, to develop those characters. And if you're not going to really focus on the DiCaprio, Lily Gladstone love thing at the, the center of it, and it's more about DeCaprio and De Niro's kind of like abusive relationship where he's, DiCaprio's character is not really the brightest, and he's clearly just being manipulated by his uncle and where that comes to a head. but again, I just, I don't know, I just wasn't really connecting with these relationships and just kind of felt like when it all wrapped up, I was kind of like, this is like a fascinating

story and it's horrifying the real life nature of it and the historical angle of it, but it made me kind of want to seek out a documentary about this. The subject matter is more interesting than how they portrayed it, yes. Yeah. Yeah, which is a shame because, yeah, as I'm saying, like, this really, this is like made for me. This should be, this should take every box for me. And yeah, when I was at that two-hour point and I was like, I'm kind of feeling this length. I need, I need something a little bit more.

I need some more progression. I need to be feeling for these characters more. I don't know. Yeah. It was, I was kind of, my hopes were. up in the first like 30 minutes of the film. I was feeling it really, really early into it. I was honestly just thinking in my head, I'm like,

could I just like go wait outside and not review the movie and no one? Like, can I just like not watch this? I was just seriously thinking about like going outside and like having a beer or and just not watching the movie. I'm like, I'm okay. I don't, I'm not in a mood for this right now. like there's so many things that I need to do. It's a bad sign for me where, yeah, my mind just starts wondering.

If I'm engaged in a movie, it's not going to happen to me. But yeah, with this, there were points where I was like thinking about like my to-do list or or I don't leave the oven on, like all this kind of stuff where. Yeah. In these best films, I just don't feel that way. I know. I know. And some people, some crazy people would blame you for that and not the, you know, experience of the film that you're not

control of subjective experience. Yeah, that's what I want to highlight. Yeah, I don't feel that way when I watch Casino. I don't feel that way when I watch the Irishman. No. Yeah. And when you're kind of put in that state, you start noticing things that you might not

otherwise. Like, um, and even, to be honest, even in saying that, like the first like 40 minutes, I was noticing some strange kind of technical things that were. Audio. Yeah. The ADR was quite bad in points. Yeah. Bad audio.

The some strange kind of continuity issues I was picking up too like one of the characters is crying in a shot and it's going from like a B angles and they're like tear is just like moving all over the place and she there's like a lot of that continuity stuff going on in a way that was like man yeah it's not really what I'm uh notes in in his movies and that was kind of surprising to me um that there were enough examples of that for me to feel like I need to note that down. Yeah, there was some really weird audio shit going on. A lot of De Niro's dialogue, as much so I enjoyed that character.

A lot of it was ADIR, I think. You'd notice, like, it'd say two of three lines and then that last line, I don't know if you slurred his speech or something and it needed to be done again, or I don't know what was going on there. It was, like, weirdly edited. Like, you could hear the white noise going up and down with the, fades in the, like, when they use the different track. Yeah.

It's so weird. And, uh... Yeah, and it was very noticeable. Also, I don't know what you thought about the soundtrack. Like, everybody else in my party thought it was good. Um, I thought, I don't know, score-wise, it was fine, but the way it wound up being used in totality, it was just so fucking repetitive. It was the most repetitive.

And I was not having it. I was not enjoying it. It was making the movie worse. And it wasn't like intricately composed. It wasn't like interesting. It was just, wow, you're playing the same couple notes over and over again. And I get that you're trying to instill some sort of tension with this soundtrack. But it's really just.

Yeah, that was my disappointment with it. It's kind of laughable. It's hitting like parody levels with how repetitive. Because at first, for like that first hour, I was digging it. I was loving the sounds they were pulling out. There's that deep bass they keep whipping out. But then by like hour two, and they're still doing it, I was kind of hoping, man, it would have been really cool

to have some kind of progression to this theme that you keep doing. Add some more layers in, mix it a little bit differently, do something as the story is getting more tense, but it really doesn't do that. So, yeah, there is like a couple hours where is this like, the same like bass chords being played again and again. and yeah, I did feel the repetition of that by a certain point too. Yeah, I loved Leo's performance.

I thought that he was the best part of the movie for me in terms of just what I was able to consistently find enjoyment out of in each scene. Just his performance alone is just, I thought it was incredible. Yeah. Everybody else did more or less a great job. I thought that Brendan Fraser showing up, was really out of place and weird and kind of comical for me.

Yeah. It was kind of funny. I don't know how I can properly articulate why. He really just felt like he belonged in a different movie. Yeah, because he comes in all of a sudden and he's like screeching at the top of his lungs. I guess he's like a lawyer. Yeah. And the way that the way I remember exactly how the camera looks at him as soon as we're introduced to him.

It felt like a real Marvel moment or something. things. Dude. The whale. I was really into De Niro's character, though. I thought that was kind of the character, like a great antagonist. A lot of depth to him. He was fun.

His manipulation angle. How, yeah, he's like two-faced. This miserable plotter planner. Just like an evil person. And I was like reading about some of his, like the real person's like Wikipedia. And this guy is like a piece of work. It's like a really evil story. And we kind of brought this up in the Oppenheimer discussion where I felt like the movie was kind of elevated by subject matter.

And it felt like so important almost inherently because of it and the way it was harnessed and communicated through the filmmaking. That was like a really valuable thing for me. Whereas here I just, yeah, kind of going back to that documentary thing where I feel like I just like so much more. more to know about this is so much, so much I feel like is kind of left off the table and stuff that I would have a bit more explanation on, even despite that runtime, which is kind of crazy to say, because a lot does happen. It's going through, got tens and tens of events and all these different people being taken off one by one, and John Lithgow shows up as a prosecutor, and Jesse Plemons shows up as the FBI guy. And it's like, all this, there is a lot of content.

a lot of to the story and a lot of like then this happened then this but i just yeah i needed something else some some x-factor to bring this all together and i yeah i just i just needed to be more invested in one of those central relationships for it to really come together for me because i as much as i do enjoy that decaprio performance like especially as it starts all kind of falling apart for him and yeah he's got to stand there being interrogated and his uh daughter dies of whooping cough and his like breakdown and that's kind of what changes him to the other side while that stuff is in there i'm not i'm not feeling it in the way i feel like a shit exactly there's there's ingredients of a great movie in here they just didn't cook it right yeah that's why i'm hung up on the

the the way it was kind of put together i feel like the you could play around the editing and the... What's screwed it up. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You could, I feel like you could deal with the same story with the same scenes, even the same way that was shot, but just trickle it out in a slightly different way. I feel like it could be something really special there.

There was an interesting... I've seen... So there's an extended edition of The Handmaiden, and it's not a director's cut. And essentially it was just like, they just threw in a bunch of extra footage that wasn't in the theatrical cut, which is the director's cut.

So the extended edition is not a director's cut. The extended is literally just they sold a Blu-ray in the UK and were like, hey, it's an extended one. It kind of ruins the movie. I've seen it. And like the way that information is delivered and just how things are presented,

it's so weird. Like, in the editing room, you really can completely ruin the reveals and the timing and just everything that makes the movie work using the same footage, essentially. And I feel like this film to me is like that extended edition of The Handmaiden, where if you just edited it in a different way, then we could have had a better movie. You know, maybe got to did something different with the score too. Would have satisfied me.

But yeah, I don't know. It's interesting that you say that you bring up the fucking Oppenheimer as one where you were finding it to be more elevated by the source material. I think that most people that I've heard talk positively about this movie would say that about this movie. I feel pretty consistent with both of these films in the sense that I'm just judging the film and it doesn't really matter. matter if it's a true story or not. So you're racist. Bye-bye. That was to me.

That is part of, it's almost kind of a cheat code in a way when like, like, there is a, I agree. It's, it's not fiction. It, like, really happened, but that, like in Oppenheimer, for me, the way, the, the, uh, the importance of what happened and the way Nolan decided to convey it to the audience, I felt like it matched the importance of the story you was trying to tell where I feel like this story could have been elevated by, I just, I don't even know how to find the words. A different style. A different style.

I don't know. I'm just hung up on. Yeah. That I really, there is such a tense, horrifying, true story at the center of this, something that like, once you hear about this, you want to know every detail. of like, oh my God, this is horrifying. Like the fact that this happened and it, it is true. And they're, you know, they're begging, going to Washington, begging the government to get involved. And like, nothing's happening for them.

It's like, yeah, there's this inherent sympathy for these people. And I just feel like I'd be invested in this movie so much more. If I didn't instantly know who was at fault and what was going on here, it's all kind of so plain and matter of fact. And it's making, and yeah, it's very intentional. I understand it's making that point. He's trying to highlight, yeah, look at the, look at the depravity that's brought out by this, by this, this oil wealth and the racism that's baked into this time period and all the, yeah, all this kind of stuff.

I think it's not even so much just the revealing order of information, but I think, I think it might honestly have a lot to do with the style, at least for me. Because now I'm thinking of examples like, you know, Mr. Gloucels. with his newest Holocaust film. What was it called? Right? Zone of interest. That's a very, zone of interest, thank you.

That's a very unique and purposeful way of telling this story. Now I'm trying to imagine, like, what would this story be if instead of approaching it from a, you know, gangster typical Scorsese style and length and, you know, a lot of similar choices with that? What if you instead approached it with a bit more of like a weird kind of disturbing element, right? What if it was more like a Iniaritu film or what if it was more like a, you know, there's so many other directors that I could just imagine doing really incredible things. Like, Glazer is obviously pretty versatile too. I just don't know if, I just don't know if I gelled with Scorsese being the one to direct this. I love his gangster movies, like the fucking

crime Italian people but I don't know if this yeah it's a very different story and it just didn't didn't click didn't click with the style so yeah I feel like this is kind of another film I kept randomly thinking about was weirdly Asteroid City where nothing like literal as far as

the stories or anything like this but more so a film where A lot of the scenes I'm loving, a lot of this presentation, I'm adoring, but I'm just, I just can't connect with it. And these kind of, like, it's less obtuse in colors of flower, I mean to me, but an obtuse framing or delivery of information that kind of is halting me from getting fully invested in what I'm seeing. Yeah, I was thinking about it in terms of that, because you mentioned the, the way the film

wraps up, where it's kind of like a more meta moment, it descends. into like a play that kind of wraps up the beats of like the the lack of justice of what happened and how how little was really done to resolve this in the end and the kind of tragedy of that and then Scorsese coming out and reading it himself and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. I was thinking about no country for old men at points. Hmm. Because it was almost like a deliberately kind of unsatisfying ending in a way.

Like it was trying to make a point about it. Yeah, and also the coin flip guy was from that. Oh, he was, yeah, yeah. The gas station guy. Yeah, yeah, I think you're right that it's supposed to be kind of a full stop when you don't want it. Yeah, to be unsatisfying. Which is great for no country for old men because it's nonstop up until that point,

nonstop, then full stop. Whereas this, it's just like, oh, finally. things are moving along and then it's like I'm like damn fuck I was ready for some because I was really starting to enjoy it in the second half of this movie I was like really ready for some more and then it's like no it's over bye bye and then I'm like well why why was the first half like this

why did you do that to me? Yeah yeah weirdly unsatisfying. Yeah I got a lot of complicated feelings about this movie because I still like I think people might be surprised by the rating I'm going to give it because I did still quite enjoying myself. I was enjoying the visuals, the costumes, the production design. The performances are pretty great all round.

But it was just like this layer above it where I'm like, everything in me is like, man, I should be loving this right now. Everything is in place. But it's just not emotionally connecting, which was disappointing. But there's just too much good going on for me to give it any lower. I don't know how much more you have to say, but I can go into my rating now. Go for it.

Yeah, because I know, this is like a solid three and a half star seven out of ten for me. I do need to preface. This is maybe one of the worst screenings I've been to in like years as far as the audience and how disrespectful they were being. The screen was literally out of focus for the first 15 minutes and I had to leave. I hate that. Oh, you had to take initiative? I've had to be that guy.

I've had to be the one. Which sucks and it's like, I missed a few minutes of the movie because of it. So I missed a few minutes of the scene. Oh, that means you can't rate it. It's one of the, I think it was one of the more crucial scenes where DiCaprio and Lily Gladstone

are like having a meal together. They're in her house. And there's like an elongated scene at the dinner table. I missed a few minutes of that while trying to get it sorted. But like I felt like I was going insane because like it was just enough out of focus where like the text

when they're like opening books and like pointing to things it was just like it was like hurt my eyes so like yeah I do need to preface that that kind of hurt the experience a little bit before they got it in focus so I would be willing to check this out again

but I'm not going to rush back to it anytime soon also without the lack of it don't trick yourself yeah I don't know Yeah, I'm pretty much with you. Six out of ten for me. It's the highest I can give something that I'm never going to see again, though I'm not really into.

But I think is like a well-made movie from many technical elements. There's a lot of ingredients in this film that I really like. I just wish that it was cooked or baked better, whatever analogy we want to use. I found myself the most into this movie during moments, without really. really being attached to the overall experience. There was, you know, the moment with the KKK walking through the parade and the Grand Wizard says hi to the main character as a friend. I was like, that's fucking awesome.

That's a really nice little environmental and historical and really interesting thing to think about in terms of just like, oh, yeah, like how accepted they were and they were just like a normal thing and like different periods of the U.S. and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, moments like that. Or there was a transitionary scene, like literally in between. scenes we have the woman saying you tell me what kind of sheriff sells cocaine and then it just moves on to another thing I'm like there's little details those little moments that just get me more into the environment yeah and the setting those are things that I loved and then just I don't know the main the main thing that I'm supposed to be enjoying or paying attention to about the movie was just really boring and I was thinking about other things I was physically at the movie in a way where I didn't miss a single second. I didn't even pee somehow throughout the entire movie.

But mentally, I was not there for the entire runtime. I was only there when there were things that I liked that were happening. And that wasn't, you know, everything else was fine. I'm just, I need to be impressed. I need to be wowed. I need to be seeing something incredible. if I'm going to watch it for three and a half hours long and not feel like I wasted my time after. So six out of ten, big waste of time, never going to watch it again.

And fuck you people for acting weird about a rating. Go fuck yourself. I'm going to ban the shit out of you. You should not be talking about movies. You should not be talking about movies. You're not going to in my community. You're banned. Low.

I want to bring up this question, actually, because it does pertain to this film. I don't want to bring up later. It seems, yeah, makes more sense to bring out now. There was a question left by exiled outcast who said, recently cinemas have been adding unofficial intermissions to screenings of killer of the flower moon, much of the annoyance of editor Thelma Schoonmaker. Do you think intermissions should come back, given the influx of long flicks, Babelombo's Afraid, Oppenheim and the Batman Way of Water, etc.?

And then a weed warlock replied to that saying, It's puzzling because you have famous directors on one hand saying, Movies are dying. No one is going to the theatre anymore. theaters do something like this, clearly has a means to sell more tickets and maybe even better the customer experience because what they provide is a service. And then those same directors complaining from before, turn around and call the movie police on them for trying to make it more accessible for people. Personally, I'd love an intermission, but according to Scorsese, I don't respect

cinema, because I have a small bladder and a flat ass that can't stand those uncomfortable, and let's be honest here, nasty theater seats for three and a half hours. And I'm with them, man on this. I think it's getting to kind of an absurd point with how long these are getting. If it's properly communicated as long as it's obvious that that's what they're doing and there's

an option to do it that way or not do it that way. Like, you know, if there's another theater and you can it's a big movie. Like it was playing everywhere. It's not like you could only find it and select theaters like it. So it got a pretty big release. So if some theaters want to do that

and they're honest about it, I would be interested in checking that out and seeing how it is. And maybe if it was like really egregiously bad, like they started blaring fucking like Drake in the intermission or something. Like then maybe I would be like, hey, you shouldn't do that. Yeah. Like I guess I get where the editors coming from in terms of like, yeah, that does affect the pace and the flow if right in the middle you're stopped.

I would have enjoyed this movie better with a break in between. But yeah, I'm right there with you. There's like a lot of movies. Like there's so many movies I watch not in the theater at home. We're like, I will pause it and go pee or whatever and then return to the storage. David Lynch won't let you. Yeah. If David Lynch had his way, he would remove the pause button.

There is, yeah, there is this kind of like elitism that comes out sometimes where it's like, man, I just want to watch a movie and enjoy myself and be comfortable. And yeah, like, theaters that, they're, like, disgusting as well. Like, I'd rather not want to be in there

for like three and a half hours. Ideally, I would much prefer to watch a lot of this stuff at home in the comfort where I probably will. I don't have to worry about it being out of focus for 20 minutes. I don't have to worry about

people talking over it and these smells and the sticky floor and all this kind of stuff. It's like, man, think about it. Please, there's so many long-ass movies. Just give me a choice or something.

Just release everything. in theaters and non-digital on the same day and whoever wants to watch it whatever way they can. I'd be fine with that. But they want to trap people into having to see it in a theater. So we're never going to get that. Thank you, FNAF.

Actually, I'm going to raise my rating to a 10 out of 10 for five nights at Furnies because they did that. And Killers of the Flower Moon, I'm lowering it to a 1 out of 10. Oh, dude, damn. Because they didn't do that. I remember, though, in the early 2000s

going to see Harry Potter in the Chamber of Secrets and it had an intermission. At the theater I saw it. But yeah. I can't remember the last movie I've seen that has an intermission. That, like, actually had an intermission at the theater. Yeah.

Because I know there's one in 2001 in Space Odyssey, but I don't even think they actually did that for the theatrical re-release. I think they just left, like, a couple minutes in there and started the movie again. I don't think they gave long enough to actually go pee. Oh, really? Yeah. Can I stop? all right we talked about birth birth the concept of birth it's a beautiful um thing that happens

before you were a baby oh yeah i loved that 30 minute sequence where it was just someone giving birth that was beautiful yeah i thought that that was unlike killers of the flower moon i thought that that That was entirely just like being in sex ed, you know, and they're just like playing those disturbing videos, um, birth videos. Mm-hmm. What was this movie rated?

Was it rated? Yeah, probably R. It's 15 for me. R in the States and 14A in Canada, 13 Quebec. Okay. Yeah, weird movie.

Uh, what's the plot? Uh, a woman played, by Nicole Kidman. Her, oh yeah, spoiler discussion, everybody were spoiling the entire movie because spoilers happened from the first five minutes of the movie. Her husband dies,

and then 10 years later, I believe 10 years. Yeah. A little boy comes up to her and says, I'm your husband, actually. Mm. And tries to convince her that he is, a reincarnation of sorts,

which leads to a lot of moral and ethical and dramatic issues in her life. And it's a very, very strange and very controversial story. You can't make this movie without it being controversial in some way. But it does make it interesting. And what I liked about it is that the way that they tackled this story, I could imagine so many other directors or, I guess, movies in general, having a story like this and watching it and being kind of feeling like, oh, you just kind of made a weird fetish fantasy movie. But this didn't feel like that. This felt like it was at least trying to be disturbing for the sake of challenging the audience and not for the sake of fulfilling some weird sort of kink or just bizarre.

fantasy. Leon professional. Sometimes you watch a movie like this and you're like, why the fuck did you make this? But it's like, this one I'm like, okay, you wanted to make something challenging.

So I at least like that about it. Yeah, I agree with that in ways. I was a little bit surprised with how much I didn't connect with this movie. Especially following, I went into this thinking it was his debut for getting sexy beast was actually,

what, four years before this, a few years before this. Yes. I really like that. film. That's one I want to go back to at some point. Yeah, it's all about that brevity. We're just talking about these really long-ass movies. I don't think he has a single film that passes two hours. This one's only an hour 40. But man, yeah, it's kind of like

a disturbing twilight zony premise. But man, just the way it comes together, the angles they explore, just didn't connect with me. It never got to that level where it was either kind of fairy taleish enough or horror enough or disturbing enough it is all these things but just a little sprinkling it never really it never really picks which way it wants to go and then especially with the way the story concludes just feels like such a cop out to me um and there's just so many like elements the ending it's just like basically ruined it yeah i feel like the if you had a different ending i would have enjoyed the movie a lot more i feel like the ending alone is like the most of what I hate about it.

Not to say it's not without problems without the ending, but Jesus, that ending is fucking... It makes the movie bad. Well, not, I can't even say bad. I'm not even... I'm not even gonna say bad for this movie. There's a lot that I liked about it. There's a lot of things that I really enjoyed filmmaking-wise, performance-wise, story-wise. But damn, that ending just makes everything so fucking...

stupid. Like, she's the dumbest person in the world. Yeah, it's incredibly clunky. She's the dumbest person ever. Like, she's convinced by this little boy from things that she's written down on paper, and at no point through the film, does she ever remember or try to go, like, where are all those love letters that I wrote my late husband? Like, whatever happened? those. I wonder why those don't exist and I've never seen them resurfaced back ever, again, ever. It's like, okay, yeah. So he's only ever given details that you've written down. And she just has a bad memory and she's the biggest fucking idiot. She was going to run away with the kid. She had a plan. She was going to cross like state lines. See, what would have made the movie really interesting

is if she went through with it, regardless of whether or not the kid was actually her dead husband, that would have been a fucking crazy movie if she went through with it and then got caught. Like, she got, like, apprehended by police or whatever. And if it never revealed whether or not he was actually her late husband, if they kept the ambiguity, that would have been a fucking great movie. But they kind of shoot themselves in the foot and decide to destroy the ambiguity and not only do that, but make it the stupidest outcome. Yeah, there's just too much to buy where it's like the whole the whole thing is explained by the 10 year old finding these letters and not only understanding everything that's in there, but also memorizing all this information and being able.

He's 10 years old. Like his understanding of all this wouldn't be restricted by certain things. So that's like a big ding against it for me where it's like if you take the story literally, then yeah, just completely. falls apart and it cannot deliver on the premise it establishes and it makes you question just like why why did you even feel they need to address this then if it's going to be such a stupid dumb way to wrap it up and a surprising thing i was reading is that some people do interpret it as kind of an open-ended thing whereas i really didn't roger ebert uh yeah he's one of them um you just go through multiple reviews and the way people talk about the movie he must a pd during

the end of the movie i don't know how you could interpret it that way i'm confused about it It's unbelievably explicit. Yes, extremely explicit. It's unbelievably unambiguous. Some people take it to be him lying for her sake. So she does, like for that to work though, it would mean in this reincarnation kid, he couldn't have his full memories because he would know about the affair, in which case none of it would happen.

So he has to specifically forget about the affair for it to make sense. It explicitly shows her like burying the love letters at the beginning of the movie. Yeah. And then it comes back to it after and it explains exactly what those were. In my ideal version of this film, which, you know, she would actually, she would kidnap this child and cross state lines and go to jail. And it would never explicitly state whether or not he was the actual reincarnation by the end of it. That shot of her, the affair woman burying the love letters, that would still exist in my perfect version.

Because I would love for there to be one thing to be like on a rewatch, like, wait, what was that about? Is there more to this? And then perhaps, yeah, perhaps there could be a possibility of the literal narrative of the existing film. Perhaps there could be a possibility of that, but it would never explain it. And it would be ambiguous in the sense where it's like only fans could theorize of such a thing. And perhaps maybe the director and writer would have that in mind as a potential possibility. But without explicitly stating it, it makes the movie smarter, not just smarter because it's ambiguous, but also smarter because it doesn't shoot itself in the foot by having the literal interpretation being dumb. Right?

Because you're right. There is a lot that you have to buy. I feel like, you know, in this weird, again, if it was just completely unambiguous, if somebody had a fan theory about that, then I would be at least thinking of that as a possibility, and I would be able to buy maybe just the whole, like, okay, this is like one of the most autistic kids ever. And, you know, what other information they could have given that they didn't, and I'm surprised they didn't, they could have explicitly stated that the kid was born

on the exact same day. Because the only information we get about that is just through the editing. Whereas we don't know if that birth happened exactly. Like, that could be a different kid for all we know, right? All it shows is husband dying and then baby being born. And that's an implication through editing.

I would like there to be a more explicit confirmation that he was born on the exact same day that the husband died because, A, that would be able to have her more convinced. It could be like, yo, this is my birth certificate. Right? It would make more sense that she was more convinced and B if you're going to have whether explicitly or not the possibility of the kid himself believing that he was the reincarnation that would give more reason for him to believe it

right so if this weird autistic 10-year-old you know finds these letters and finds out about this person that died and then realizes wait that's the same day I was born and we have the same name then it would make more sense for the kid to believe it himself. As of right now, the way that the movie is described, the way that the information is shown in the film, there's no good reason why the kid would want to start believing that he's the reincarnation of somebody. Just like, oh, we had the same name. Therefore, we must be, like, come on, you're not, no, it doesn't matter what their mental levels are. If they have the ability to go through with this entire scheme as intricately as they did, I'm not sure that, I, I, I,

would need a bit more for them to start believing that themselves in the first place. That was the implication is that he believed it. Yeah. The kid believed it. Right. So it's crazy that that I have just these couple things in my head, just very clear ideas of what I would do to make the story better, and not only better in my opinion, but also more like a Jonathan Glazer movie. Because his other movies are really ambiguous and interpretable, at least the two hours. at least the two after this. It seemed like he was kind of learning from this in a way. His other films are very intelligent in terms of how information is shown

and what is shown and what isn't shown. And that's the best parts about them. That's what make them so smart. So it's weird to see this fail in that way. I don't know how much you read about the production issues or whatever where they were doing a lot of writing on the fly. by giving scripts that have been rewritten to the actors on the day of filming and this kind of stuff. The whole plot was mapped out in a certain way and they scrapped it shortly, but it looks like a month before filming and stuff like this.

So I don't know if that had kind of an impact where I don't know if his other projects were, they seem a bit more meticulous than this one. There's just not really these kind of problems in his other films. And even going down to like the opening, which I, which I love actually with the jogging through Central Park or whatever. There's this narration from the husband character. You never properly see you just hear his voice talking about how he's a lecturer and he's talking about splitting the atom and he's like a pragmatist and he's talking about reincarnation and how he doesn't believe in it. And then you fast forward to half an hour later when the kid is getting involved.

And I don't know, there's never really anything that aside from these random tidbits, like, yeah, we did it on the green sofa in your house. and your brother-in-law's house. How could he know that? Yeah, instead of stuff like that. I've never said that to anyone except when I wrote it in my love letters that I'm not going to know or missing. Yeah, I just never bought that. I just feel like she would have more delicate personal questions to ask this kid and would figure it out in a way that would just be more believable.

And I know that it's supposed to feed. The adults were stupid. Yeah, yeah. But it's supposed to feed into this idea that like most of the major characters in them, movie are, they're all kind of believing what they want to believe and they're not, they're living like an illusion of some kind. They're living some kind of fake existence. Like the little boy believes he is this guy.

That's his illusion. The lead character believes that this impossibility, this fairy tale, elseworld thing is happening to her. Her new husband who has his whole diatribe about how long it took for them to get together, because she kept just denying his advances he's loving in this kind of illusion about his relationship with his wife. And then there's the woman who the real Sean had an affair with, and she's under this illusion as well. Oh, if it really was you, then you would have come to me first and how love was real. And that's why he gave the notes and all this blatant and manipulative behavior.

Everyone's just kind of, yeah, deluded. and everyone's kind of like, yeah, believing what they want to believe, and there's this whole grief angle, and there's a lot of depth to that kind of stuff, and I love all that and, like, what I guess you're thinking about, and these weird, like, conundrums of, like, yeah, just taking this premise quite seriously, like, how would people react if this did happen? Because it's a crazy premise. And, yeah, it just doesn't fully explore it in a way that I find to be believable

or wrap up in a way that was like, yeah, that was really thought-provoking. That was really sensitive and horrifying and scary like his other movies do to me. It just felt way more clunky, way more all over the place. So it's a shame. Yeah, it's, I do appreciate that connection that you made with the characters being all relatively diluted. I when you were talking about the people are so satisfied

with answers that they could be a bit more skeptical about and I understand that I don't know if you read Roger Ebert's review he seemed to think like oh this is how people would be I'm just I don't know if I'm an adult in this situation

and the guy was splitting Adams and talking about like physics I would just ask the kid to give me, you know, just teach a little fucking course just take a little test Yeah, I felt like they had to write around that

You know, that's a pretty solid way to verify You can't just be like, oh, I forget all of the science parts, but I know all of the other parts Yeah, or I guess what it's trying to say is the It's trying to say the the obsessive love is so strong and delusional and she wants to believe it so badly that she's

you know not seeing the forest with the trees she's just kind of believing what she wants to believe it is almost like to lead it as trying to get this point about yeah obsessive love but it's just yeah it's just kind of yeah it's just a clunky wave exploring that I don't know I was trying to think of like ways would it perhaps be more interesting and less kind of weird if like the main character was a like an old ass woman or something and then in it was basically like Benjamin button kind of in a way where it's kind of a similar sort of idea this weird fairy tale scenario but you avoid some of the weirdness like if yeah if the main character was an old woman and this like 20 year old shows up saying yeah like shortly after her husband died or something I don't know there's some way

you could take it's a different genre then it's more like the fucking notebook yeah um but there's just so many details like having the kid in there and having him be so young. And he's got to act as an adult. He's got to convince a bunch of adults that he is one of them, basically, not just one of them, but someone they all deeply know on a personal level. Yeah. And it's not just restricted to Nicole Kidman and the boy. There are a ton of different characters who would know him.

So maybe that's where some of the issues come in as having all these people that would, they would definitely know this boy. And I guess the other characters are a bit more skeptical than the lead. But he's still, this 10-year-old is able to, I don't know, he's such like a verbal genius. He's able to kind of maneuver around these conversations with these like doctors and stuff and convince them in one way or another that there's something unexplainable going on. How do you know what you know? What is going on here? I just never fully bought into that premise.

He doesn't make a very good argument. Yeah, it does just escalate quite quickly. If like 50 minutes you got Nicole Kidman saying, how are you going to fulfill my needs? You ever make love to a girl? This kind of stuff, these are creepy ideas. Yeah, I don't know. I just don't buy that it would be that level

without just completely buying into this idea of obsessive love and not being able to move on. And this idea of grief that is so powerful for this character and has a reeling at the end in the ocean. And you're like, is she going to try and end herself right now? Like, she's clearly miserable. And she has that whole scene where she's talking about how she's never really got over the death of Sean when she's talking to her brother-in-law or whatever. So, yeah, I don't know.

There's just like a lot of complex characters, a lot of complex ideas and challenging ideas, as you said. But I just, yeah, I just kind of feel empty at the end of this. So, like, my first thought was just like, that was pretty dumb. That was kind of a dumb. It's like such a sour way to wrap this story It's incredibly dumb Yeah

I don't hate it There's still things that I like about it And even So unlike Killers of the Flower Moon Where I'm just enjoying like moments There's something at this film's core That I enjoy It existing

And I I get what it's doing And I like what it's doing in some way that is a little difficult to articulate. I think that performance-wise, it's mostly great. I don't know, the 10-year-old wasn't great, but he didn't ruin the movie sort of thing. You know, he was about as good as he needed to be.

Yeah, he's so stoic. He's kind of won emotional range for kind of the whole movie, the little boy. Yeah. When he did the dramatic fall to his knees, and the musical sting played it. That was so funny. That was so hilarious.

But then I think, was that right before? That leads to one of the best scenes in the film. Yeah, the orchestra. Yeah, the opera scene that was just so great. Yeah, that's the, that's the glazer we know. A single take and the, yeah. Or even just like at the beginning, that first act where, yeah, it's tracking the jogging Sean right before his death.

And then you get that shot in the frame by the tunnel that is then later returned to the reincorporation of that tunnel and the boy being there. And it's like, oh, this is like creepy and weird. And I like the way this is building and going. And it's like there's some, there's like a grand mystery at the heart of it. And it's kind of riding totally on how they pull off that mystery. And all the mystery is kind of let all the air is let out in that last. The way it wraps up, which is, yeah. We've had questions before about like movies that kind of fall apart at the end.

And this is one. It's like, it does hurt it a lot. Because I don't know if I really want to revisit this. It's writing on it. You're right. Yeah, definitely. Like how are you going to conclude this? How are you going to wrap this up in a satisfying way?

Yeah, kind of shit's the bed. They easily could have just had a different ending. Yeah. Would have fixed a lot of shit. And yeah, kind of retroactively and does a lot of the good stuff. as well, knowing that that's where it all goes. Kind of, yeah. Yeah, a rewatch will be really interesting.

I think I'll hate the characters even more. There's no likable characters. They're all fucking idiots and stupid. They're just so dumb. Like, even her new husband, I'm like, fucking dump this bitch. Holy shit. Really?

Especially the way that concludes. It's like you let a little boy's fantasy almost make you a pedophile instead instead of getting married. Like, what, like it was his fantasy and you almost left me?

Dump her. She doesn't deserve to be happy and you don't deserve her. Dump this bitch. Yeah. She's awful. She's saying some creepy stuff too, you know,

like, I wonder what you're going to look like while he's like in the bath. Mm. That bath scene is uncomfortable and it's intentionally uncomfortable and I like I like that there's

just disturbing elements to this movie that are there to explicitly challenge audience members and make them uncomfortable. Yeah. I like that in a film, but it's just so dumb. It's dumb.

Every character is the stupidest character ever. That both scene is probably the most notorious scene in the movie. Yeah. As far as reactions go and a lot of people react like it's, I don't know, QT's level or something with what it's doing with that.

But I don't think it's, is quite that level. Like when you, when you, there are quotes of a glazer like talking about his approach to that scene and what he thinks he was trying to achieve with it. And like, they made sure that there's,

I think there's only one shot with the pair of them in the bath. And it looks like they're both naked on screen, but they're actually, they are wearing clothes that just don't be picked up on camera. Just for that one single show. Yeah, it's all cheated. Yeah, it's all cheated. And it's like,

yeah, I feel like that's, that's kind of how you do it. If you want to have a scene like this, I mean, I recommended what happiness early on in this podcast. So I don't know, there's like some horrifying stuff in that movie too. It's more, yeah, just that execution where you take it, where you go with it. The uncomfortable nature is, yeah, the cool kind of horror and intrigue of what is going on.

But yeah, I'm just not buying it with this packaging. Yeah, it's incredible what it managed to navigate giving the plot. Like, it's incredible to watch this film. and not think that Jonathan Glazer is a pedophile by the end. So many of... If I get... I'm feeling sussy things about M. Knight from some of the characters in old.

I'm like, why do you have babies get each other pregnant? Like, why'd you do that? Like, there's so many weird things in so many movies where it's just like, it's handled so sloppily that I'm like, why'd you even put that there? But... So there is something to be impressed by with this film. I mean, quite a few things to be impressed.

by. But you're right. Just the whole thing doesn't come together as a whole. And every character is an unlikable idiot and it just deserves everything bad to happen to them. But I still don't hate it. I don't hate it. It's got a weird place in my brain. And I would watch it again, even though I have a lot of issues with it. And it might even just be a frustrating experience, especially on my second watch. But I'm very curious as to what that would be like. And still love Glazer, his weakest film.

Yeah, I think it's definitely his weakest film, by far. Unanimously. Yeah, I don't know. It was even close, actually, thinking about it. Yeah, I don't know if I could revisit it. I think that twist is so dumb. The place that goes is so dumb. I don't know how much of an issue this actually is,

but it was something I kept noticing. There were multiple scenes where it's new characters talking about the same thing, but like repeating dialogue a lot. There's at least two or three of these where it's like, yeah, one set of characters, they learn something, then they take that information to another scene and kind of almost word for word repeat the same thing, which I don't know, that is kind of clunky in and of itself to me.

There are ways to write around that. You probably shouldn't be repeating information again and again unless there's some kind of new context, some new revelation. There's a new reaction from a different character coming out of it, but I just didn't feel like it was justifying what it needed to be revisiting this exact dialogue for even just like brief scenes with the main character and her mum in like a restaurant having breakfast. And it's just repeating the same dialogue that was just explained in the exact same way. It was shown to us.

That's just kind of a pet peeve of mine though, I think. What do you think of the music? Death's Black coming out? I was so confused by it at first. And I like it overall, and it's well orchestrated, but it's also kind of confusing what they're going for at points of the movie. And sometimes it feels like... Very whimsical.

Wimical, and I like that it turned from whimsical into more sinister and foreboding. I very conflicted about it because I do feel like it was inappropriate in some parts but there's other parts where I just love it but I don't know if I love it independently of the movie or just like it's usage in the movie like it's it's confusing and complicated and I you know Miko Levi would have been better but I don't they hadn't worked together yet so yeah agreed um it it does add a sense of whimsy especially the beginning almost sounds like a like fairy tale kind of music that's like grand yeah it's like a disney movie yeah which i guess is intentional because it's trying to be a bit one of these fairy tale else world and i do like how it it does change up and it get more get more uh kind of disturbing sounding at these different layers in um the more horrifying it gets but yeah i just yeah honestly the most enjoyment i got from this was kind of yeah going back into a filmmaker's work and just seeing

oh this is where he was getting that idea for what came to fruition later in this thing or you know these kind of ideas like just seeing the DNA and the exploration of a filmmaker a bit earlier on but it is night and day compared to everything else it is a little bit surprising that it came after sexy beast to me so I just think that's so much better than this yeah but this was also more experimental This was also more like risk taking, I guess.

Yeah, it's definitely harder to sell someone on. There's more ways to fail. Yeah, definitely. And I'm glad he was able to continue working after this, to be honest, because it's the kind of thing that probably could tank your reputation. Who looks at this script and says yes? Yeah. Honestly, fucking Nicole kid.

What? She apparently said yes because of sexy beast. Which is great. Yeah. Yeah, so you need that sexy beast and that first, the more broad and then you do your weird thing with the creepy elements.

I was just going to mention, so I don't know if you read Roger Ebert's review of this. I didn't. I read through the whole thing. It's one of those where he takes 10 paragraphs to just summarize the movie

and then says two things about what he thought about it and doesn't really justify it. I don't know why he thinks the way he thinks about the movie because it's not in his review. Yeah, that's true. You know? It's so annoying.

Like, damn. There's so much that I like about the guy, but there's so much within print media and, you know, just a bunch of his reviews that are just like, this is actually, you just spent a lot of time saying nothing. Yeah, I got you. Very unfortunate. What were you going to say?

Yeah, like with the creepiness factor, I didn't, I didn't feel like Leon the professional levels or whatever, you know. I'm just like questioning. No. This only had one French writer. Okay, yes. It's a little bit filtered. I need a third of it. Glazer held it back.

Glazer toned everything down. Five out of ten. I'd watch it again. Very stupid things I like to. about it. But somehow unforgettable. It's definitely not forgetable.

It's not a nothing movie. It's definitely not nothing. It is not a fucking build furniture movie. It is a something. It's something that evokes something from me.

It's just, it does evoke frustration for me. Mostly frustration. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. I'm slightly. But I'm slightly.

minute. I'm slightly below you of my rating. I'd give it a two-star four out of ten. Love a lot of the ideas, a lot of the thematic stuff that's being explored there. I think grief and this kind of stuff is a really interesting emotion to explore. And some of my favorite movies do do that. I can just think of so many better examples in the horror, in the fantasy, in the drama, category, whether it be hereditary, Antichrist, Manchester by the Sea, don't look now, even someone like dog tooth I was thinking about weirdly. Good movie. I just feel like I've seen a lot of these ideas explored to their potential in much better ways.

I enjoyed it as an earlier glazer work, and I'm glad I've seen all of his films now, but I'm not really going to be revisiting this. I can't buy the little boy convincing everyone who's like this little genius guy. Just from these letters. He's young Sheldon. He is, okay. Maybe, maybe I'll have to rewatch it with that in mind. Just picture him as young show.

AI him. Imagine Young Sheldon. Yeah. Oh God. We had to do that. That's on the list. Somebody make a list of everything we want AI. Because we'll hit in 10 years from now, it'll be better.

So we got Nathan Fielder as the Flash. Yes. We got Young Sheldon as birth. Am I forgetting any? Those are the big ones. No, I think that's, yeah. Those are the big ones. Yeah, yeah. He's definitely got it together a lot better in his works after, that's for sure.

Yeah, it's incredible because I fully trust him as a director at this point. Yeah. Which is why I watched this, but still. Yeah. Yeah, we'll see what he does in the future. Hopefully he doesn't take 10 years every time, but if he needs to, then that's fine too. I also realized that I watched Exorcist the Believers. Is there a conversation to be heard?

The Exorcist Believer. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've seen a lot about it, but I'm not sure if I can pull the trigger. I don't know. Is it like funny bad? Um, no. Okay. It's, uh, well, let's just put it this way.

I forgot I had watched it until I just saw in my notes that there was a tab for it. Oh, no. David Gordon Green. What's are you doing? I forgot I had watched it the same day as Five Nights at Freddy's. Oh, wow. Terrible double bill. It was more boringer than five nights at Freddy's.

More boringer than FNAF. You're really selling me on this. Yeah, the story behind the movie is more interesting than the movie. Very weird director for that. What's the story? I don't think I know. The story is they thought they could replicate the success of the Halloween trilogy, which was also David Gordon Green.

70s horror movie you know let's do a trilogy sort of thing the problem is they spent what 400 million dollars on the IP or some shit and this is Blumhouse also oh it's Blumhouse and yeah

so they spent 400 million I think on the IP this was supposed to be the first of a trilogy and it did so poorly that they're changing directors and I guess they're still going to do two more but I don't know what the hell the point of yeah why it's not like anybody's wondering what's happening to those characters by the end of the first movie yeah it was a lot of a lot of referencing the first movie but just not doing it it felt like a rip-off of

a lot of other movies and then not doing any yeah the most noticeable thing seems to be there's like a line of dialogue that's like crazy from this like old woman or something it's like parody dialogue or something. I'm seeing the movie, so I'm trying to remember exactly what she says. She says something about like... Is there a clip going? Yeah, this was like a few weeks ago. Yeah, there was like a clip going around. This is like an old lady character who has just some ridiculous line of dialogue about like the patriarchy or something like that. I don't know. They mentioned the patriarchy. Like, I don't know if that's the most notable thing about it. But of course, yeah, I do remember now. Like, oh, no, it's woke.

I don't remember. It's cringe, but it's not, like, the whole movie's cringe. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The whole movie's cringe. I did see that first Halloween from the David Gordon trilogy. I couldn't stand that film, to be honest. I did not see the other ones. Same.

It was bad. Yeah. Oh. It's funny that they thought he could do it again, even though they're wildly different genres, the Exorcist and Halloween. But to the people with the money, they thought, oh, a 70s horror film.

Let's get the guy that just did a trilogy and that was successful. They don't realize that there's a difference between like, I don't know, a slasher and like a slow burn, like religious kind of supernatural, fucking weird, I don't know, what do you call it the first exorcist? It's much more moody.

There's more tone and psychological, yeah, that's the word. But yeah, the patriarchal. line was funny because we kind of joked about it after in the sense that like a character one of the priests would like fuck up is like looks like he didn't have the patriarchy on his side whatever so it was a fun like call yeah it was a dumb line but the whole movie it was the only not boring part of the movie let's say they said the word patriarchy and I woke up again man you were really selling this one man I'm gonna check this out ace yeah you should watch it no don't do it

Man, let's do some questions then, huh? From the Sardonicast community. Go do it. Head over to the suggestion thread on the subreddit if you want to leave questions for future episodes, just like this very weird one from Mr. Green 1000. Alex, have you... David Gordon Green?

Oh, no. Alex, have you ever seen any weird British pornos? And Adam, have you ever done acid at a film festival? I don't know how these two questions are linked to all. Have I ever done acid? At a film festival? Like Matt and Trey Parker at the Oscars. No.

No. Acid is, uh, do I get demonetized for saying, well, let's, no one should ever do do acid, but if you do, you do it in a safe environment with people that you trust and not randomly in public. Although I did do it in public in a new environment once and it was fun, but it was also with people I trusted. Yeah. I feel like that could go wrong at a certain festival.

It could go wrong. It could go horribly wrong. You want to anticipate ways that it could go wrong, but you don't want to be thinking about those things while you're tripping because otherwise you'll just have a bad headspace. Right, yeah, yeah. But anyway, yeah, no, I've never done acid at a film festival. Why would I do that?

Yeah. Yeah, bizarre question. It's a commitment. Like, you're up all night on acid. It lasts like 12 hours. Oh, really? Yeah. never done it so it's too much of a commitment yeah yeah stick stick some you can't sneak it in at a

film festival maybe some weed maybe an alcohol yeah at a film festival fuck it you could even do shrooms for a movie at a film festival because then you won't ruin the next day okay does that like could you not also have it you could have like a scary experience there right in a similar way yeah I wouldn't recommend doing it. It seems like a bad idea. Yeah. So, no, I haven't. I guess to answer the first half of the question, anything I'll say is,

British Parliament might as well be a weird porno with how hard they're fucking us right now, sir. That's going to be my answer there. Let's do this one then from Gaza batter. This might be a bit silly to ask, but what do you think are your primary artistic expressions? I know you both make YouTube videos and music, by the way. When is the co-lap coming? But I'm sure you'd like to make movies and write books, etc.

So you consider your primary artistic expressions. I've got too many things I want to do. Right now, my biggest thing I need to solve is just not being stretched so thin. Yeah, you need time. I'm in the middle of trying to find a place to move. that sucks and the things that I wanted to do creatively this month I'm not able to so I can't even begin. There's nothing more time consuming the extra things. Yeah. I hate it. Yeah, it's not happening. So yeah, I'm going to try and sneak in like a fucking two minute five nights at Freddy's review somewhere.

I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to do. But yeah, I'd like to write. I mean, I have so many ideas in my head. But the problem is my fucking like tend to, like, tend to issues, like typing on a keyboard is not the best thing for it. So I would like to work with somebody like collaboratively on writing. I think that I would do a great job like in a kind of like group writing environment. Like maybe like a comedy show bouncing ideas off of other people

and adding two things without necessarily being the single voice. Yeah. And I mean I'll make, I still write music. I'll make another album at some point. You could try or rating one of these stories or something. If you don't want to type it, you could try, you know, one of these text to speech things or something like that. You mean speech to text?

Sorry, yeah, yeah. Speech to text, that's what I mean. Yeah, it seems fucking frustrating and slow. Yeah, I wouldn't myself, but. You have to properly enunciate every single fucking word. Mm-hmm. And then, like, go back in. Whereas I'm such a fast typer, which is probably part of the problem.

Yeah. Yeah. If I do anything like directing on any sort of like professional or even indie like but ambitious level, I think I would have, I would want to figure out writing stuff first because first, I mean, if I direct something, it's not going to be someone else's scrap. So I'd have to inherently be writing anyway. but I would be comfortable writing something that someone else directs as just like a way to get started and do something. It's just, yeah, first things first, I have to figure out how to add free time to my schedule in ways that I'm not being in a worse financial situation.

So I need to figure out things. I need to do some ad reads, which I've been talking about for like six months and still haven't figured out. Yeah. Writing is a big one. But it's just like, it's trying to organize ideas in a way. And my thing is like, I'm so interested in all these different avenues

where like I'm just scatterbrain. Like I just can't commit to one. Like I like a little bit of drawing. I like a little bit of writing. I like a little bit of cooking. Like a little bit of gardening. I like just like a little bit, but I'm never like fully committed to one to such a degree.

Like, yeah. I love like music too. but I mean, I just don't have the bandwidth to like just commit to one of these things. So I'm just kind of like dabbling and all these other things. Yeah. What kind of writing? Also, it's like I write like lyrics or poems or stories, short stories. True.

Like premises and like ideas for like character arcs and things I think would be cool. or like, uh, uh, I like trying to quote unquote fix stories or like if there's something I see that's like really mediocre or doesn't work or has like good ideas. Don't go anywhere. I like trying to almost like repair them and take a repair job to it.

And yeah, see what in my humble opinion wouldn't perhaps work better. Um, yeah. There's just, yeah, what package to take it because I much prefer the idea of like, uh,

more underappreciate. like background stuff that is absolutely core to a project coming together like a writer, you know, you don't get all the credit that you're so crucial to the project coming together, but you don't need to have all these, the skillset you need to be like a director or whatever, you need to tick certain boxes, you know, which I just feel like, I don't know if I'm fully in that camp and it's not even something I really desire. Yeah, I prefer the more kind of background stuff. I'll get there at some point.

Yeah. I want to do everything and it sucks because I can't. Yeah. You just got to kind of pick a lane at a certain point. Or like, it's annoying. I don't know. They just say like if you want to be good at right and you just got to do it just a little bit every day. Yeah.

Just like write a page a day. You got to be doing it in some form. With a lot of things. Yeah, exactly. That's what it's like you got to sink like 10,000 hours into something to be considered like a pro or good at it. And there's, yeah, a small handful of things I can say have done that. But yeah, there's more I'd like to add to that list. This is a funny one from Dab Sloth 710.

I don't even know if you're going to... I have no answers to this question. I don't know if you do it depends. Okay. What are your favorite Thanksgiving movies? Do you care about this at all? Like, how does that work in Canada? We have a Thanksgiving, but it's like a month and a half before the American Thanksgiving.

So we had ours in October. I think and then American Thanksgiving is coming like November 20 something yeah this year Like on the weekend of the 24th or something what Thanksgiving movies exist other than the new Eli Roth like are there many there's another one called thanks killing So there's a boring there's a one that I tried watching that wasn't great 2008 I gave it a five at a 10 called thanks killing Oh yeah I see it though and the turkey and free birds surely you love free birds right that's the thanksgiving movie

what's that it's just like an animated movie about like a turkey or something but I don't know oh is that the new one coming out no no this is like from 2013 or something what's the what's the illumination one coming out oh that's that's called that's called migration that's right it's about like ducks migrating or some shit oh aquafina I don't know Thanksgiving doesn't get to own turkeys is chicken run Thanksgiving movie? No, not Turkey's, man.

It's turkey based. I don't, I think that Turkey is like, the wrong bird for everybody to be hyped about for one point of the year. But Turkey's Christmas then, man. It's really not great.

No, I don't, I don't think Turkey, Turkey, Turkey gets a lot of hype just because it's a big bird. But duck is way more... It is a big bird. Good tasting. But like, like, chickens taste better than turkey. You could eat turkey every day, though, you know?

You can't be eating. duck every day, you know? Why not? Um, it's much fattier, right? Turkey's lean. Turkey's, Turkey's the leanest, uh, white meat, I think. Yeah. Well, so if you're supposed to eat turkey every day, then why do we do it just for

holidays then? The holiday birds should be a fatty bird. Well, that's one thing. It's like, I don't know, you don't really get turkey outside of Christmas here, whereas you always hear about, you know, Americans having their turkey sandwiches and stuff. So I don't know what's going on over there. I mean, yeah, you get like shaved, you can get shaved.

You can get shaved turkey at the supermarket. Yeah. Just like deli slices of turkey. Yeah, I don't know. It makes sense, I guess. See, that makes sense because as a lean, healthy meat, that's what you would want to be making your sandwiches out of on a daily basis, if you're including meat.

Do ducks on Christmas. A duck Christmas. And Thanksgiving. I did turduckin once. It was good. What's turduckin? it's a um

oh is that the way you liked it's a chicken inside a duck inside a turkey oh that's right like they've all eaten each other it's pretty good yeah yeah it was a a very vore Christmas I did a Spanish Christmas once

that was good what's the Thanksgiving movie should I look this up okay Thanksgiving like you Google it and like Spider-Man one comes up Paul Blunt Moore cop hell yeah

fantastic Mr Fox these aren't Thanksgiving movies. I'm sorry. Fantastic Mr. Fox. What happened in it that was Thanksgiving related? Nothing. I don't remember. It's like a Roll Doll book. He's British. You wouldn't care about Thanksgiving.

The Humans was a good film. And I believe that was set over Thanksgiving. That would be the most explicit Thanksgiving movie that I've seen that I've enjoyed. Okay. So there's at least one. I like that movie. Stephen Young. There we go. Nice.

Two thousand twenty one film called The Humans. Stephen Young, we fucking have a Thanksgiving movie. I thought it's going to go nuts without that. Yeah. Someone's saying prisoners on this thing? Prisoners? Prisoners is good, but I don't remember it being a Thanksgiving movie. Oh, I guess maybe the kid vanishes during a Thanksgiving meal or something.

Oh, yeah. Oh, Kreecia. Have you seen Kresia? That's pretty explicitly a Thanksgiving movie. Oh, that's a good one. You got a couple then. You got a couple. Yeah. Okay. Trey Edward Schultz. Yeah, I was finding it very weird to see.

What's the Eli Roth one called again? Thanks. It's literally called Thanksgiving. Oh, Thanksgiving. Yeah. So I saw the trailer for that. One of the screenings I went to recently and it's just like, this is a very weird film to like try and sell here.

Oh, God. Sorry, I'm having a crisis. I did the, what's Trey Edward Schultz up to? And I looked at his IMD and he's got in post-production. untitled The Weekend and Trey Edward Shultz project. Wait, no, no, no. What? Yeah.

Why? Uh-oh. Well, we can... Barry Keegan, Kogan, is in it? With the weekend? I hope it turns out... It's with the weekend's in it. I hope it turns out... It looks like he's going hard into the acting.

Yeah. So maybe it'll turn out better. we had a rough start. Yeah. Maybe it'll turn out better with the director. I was actually surprised by some of the comments on our idle discussion. Like some people are defending the weekend? Oh, were they saying the weekend's awesome?

Yeah. Or like, yeah, I was a bit like, oh, okay. It's interesting. It's response. But let's do this from from Go Jira 303. The Art of Foley is greatly underappreciated. What films would you consider to have some of the best? best sound design and editing.

For me, the top two have been John Carpenter's The Thing and the director's cut of Das Bout. Honestly, when I think of Foley and sound design, anything Ben Burt touches, especially like Wally, I think it has awesome sound design, because there's so many characters that are barely talking or saying words. So, yeah, a lot of, like, unique sounds to communicate emotion and, yeah, I think it's really well done all the like robotics and yeah i think he's he's kind of a muster in the sound space recent one hundreds of beavers great sound design yeah it did actually tons of sound design there's humor in the repetition of how sounds are used the way that they decided which sounds would reflect which actions

as well they're all just there there's so much just to really just soak in about it yeah And I agree that it is a very underappreciated aspect of filmmaking. You know, most of the time when sound design is done well, you're just so into the movie that you realize it's happening. It's kind of like good special effects. But yeah. You shouldn't be noticing. Yeah, exactly.

Situations. Yeah, hundreds of beavers. Everybody add that to your watch list. Yeah, that's a good one. Nice cartoony. Go throughout Fury Road as well. It's got some great sound design. Mm-hmm.

Sound editing. And Dunkirk, actually. That kind of springs to my mind. I need to see that again. Yeah, I think I did too. I've only seen it once. Yeah, I've only seen it at once. I own it on 4K, I think.

I just haven't opened it yet. Oh, this is an interesting one from Rated DG 13. What's a movie you used to think you enjoyed ironically, but realized it wasn't a joke anymore. The fuck? I'm trying to think of what even fits in that category. I guess something like that you keep putting on for a laugh, but then at a certain point you just have to be like, I don't know, it's just a

problem with the ironic enjoyment at a certain degree where it's like, at the end of the day, like, I've seen like Madagascar too like 15 times, you know? It's like, is that really ironic at a certain point? Oh, oh, your love for it is not actually ironic. Is that's what the question's asking? Yeah, kind of, where it's like, I don't know, I find that interesting about the ironic enjoyment where it's like where it's that delicate line of like when does this actually just become like you just kind of like this yeah every saw movie I guess yeah true yeah I've actually been chipping away at some of those old saw movies to try and fill in the timeline oh had you not seen all I've seen them all but it's just been like I hadn't seen uh I hadn't seen like which one is it five just wait for the chronological yeah I hadn't seen five since it came out um but I rewatched him I was like, oh my God, this is awesome.

I wanted to fill in my Hoffman law. Yeah, Hoffman's fun. The twist is unsatisfying in that one. Yeah, yeah. As in for the game, the Game Boys. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so is a good answer, actually. But let's end on this one then.

From Canel Blur, have you ever had a near-death experience? I've had a few on the roads. I can tell you that much. Mm-hmm. I don't know if it's just like the county I live or what, But people are crazy. They get in a car and they're just, they're unhinged. There have been multiple times where I'm like, yeah, I've got an emergency stop.

Otherwise, I would be killed in a car crash from people just being dumbasses and not respecting. The speed you're flying around in these metal boxes. Yeah. I was like, just driving is just so horrifying to me. Like, I do it. But like, every second I'm thinking, like, I could just be obliterated at any of you. moment. I've got to trust everyone around the hundreds of people and all of their tumultuous lives. I've got to trust all of them to not kill me. And I don't, I don't trust them.

It sucks. Yeah. I've probably had a few. I can think of a couple. I'm not sure I want to get into them. Yeah, well, don't know. I feel like I've, I feel like I've gotten into a lot of like real sketch situations over the course of my life. Yeah. Like the one you said about when you were, when you're in Vegas, right? You're like nearly go, kidnapped or something? Oh yeah, I almost got kidnapped. That's a pretty next one.

Yeah. That's a crazy. Yeah. Who knows if that would have resulted in death. Yeah. Who knows? There's a lot of fucking weird situations that I've found myself in. Oh, wow.

I don't know. I'll think about this one for another time. Put it in your pocket or something. Put it in your pocket for a little. Yeah, I'll put it in my pocket. Yeah. Sorry. That's okay.

I didn't have a question. I didn't have a Thanksgiving movie to reference. That's fine. Yeah. Well, that does it for questions. And I believe it's Alex's turn. It is my turn. To recommend a film.

I wanted to whip out this movie. I don't think either of us have seen from, uh, 1967, directed by Richard Brooks in cold blood. I've heard a lot of good things about this movie Looks really interesting It's easy to get hold of I have not seen it Yeah I like the premise here I think this looks

Truman Capote Yeah It's a crazy story Yeah I think this could be an interesting discussion Looks cool Okay sweet It is on my watch list And I could not tell you why

Yeah I do the same Because I don't know anything about it It's just one of those If you don't want to be spoiled for In Cold Blood, 1967, directed by Richard Brooks. Watch it before the next episode comes out. These episodes are released every two weeks, but you can listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com,

signing up for premium. It's only $2 a month, also patreon.com slash sardonicast. You will listen to the episodes early and also feel good about yourself, and Christmas is coming. why don't you give us a present by signing up for premium. Also, we have merch. What does your grandma want? Sardana cast t-shirt, probably.

Damn true. You know it. That's about it. Have a happy birth. Have a happy bite of 87. Have a happy theory. A happy game theory. All right, thanks for listening to every, every, baby, bye, bye.