Sardonicast - Sardonicast 156: Rebel Moon, Poor Things, The Wind that Shakes the Barley

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

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Three, two, one. I must go punch that baby. That was a quote from poor things. Yeah, you're right. As I was searching it up, because the first one that came up, I was like, you know what? I did like that quote, actually.

I'm Adam from your movie Sex. This is Sardonicast. Hello. I'm Alex from I hit everything, and I got an even better quote with much better dialogue for you. Oh, please. If you got some really good quotes in the bag,

You can always let me know before an episode starts, because I have just, I have given up so long ago. I just search one up, like, as soon as the episode starts on me. No, I'm kind of attached to your, like, mad scramble to, like, how you know. Yeah, you don't want to ruin that. It's a part of it now. It adds to the character. All right, go for it. No, but here's this.

Forget poor things. That's overrated writing. This is the real right here. But understand I'm a child of war. I don't know if I'm even capable of love. very idea of love was beaten out of me. I was taught that love is weakness. Remember that?

No. No, I don't remember that at all. Actually, I really don't. Oh, that was Zachy boy. Oh, Zachary. What are we going to do with you? So, yeah, we, I saw a Reddit thread being like, I wish they would cover better movies.

I'm like, we do. Yeah, I saw that same one. We do. Yeah, there's normally at least one good movie an episode. Yeah. Normally do like full bad movie episodes. Yeah, you got to understand. There's going to be people clicking on this because of the Rebel Moon part,

but we're still talking about poor things and fucking wind that shakes the barley, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And people have to also remember, we're sometimes a little bit restricted by the weird release dates. We probably could have done more things a bit earlier, but it's only just came out last Friday for me. So, yeah, sometimes that does affect, like, the cadence at which it comes out.

Yeah. But don't worry. We talk about plenty of good movies over here. We got Loach coming up, but first we got that Snyder. The most art house of the ones today. Orteur Snyder, as they call him. He's definitely an odd something. Sorry.

Oh, man. So I watched this. a couple weeks ago because I was yeah I wanted to try and do a watch along for it because there's no way in hell I would just be like sitting silently you know I already know what type of movie this is I already know I have an experience with this director

kind of know what I'm in for the trailer looked like shit that's a dead giveaway yeah it's also just a Star Wars clone which I thought from the title and poster it was a Star Wars movie before I even watched a second of the trailer and then I watched the trailer I'm like Is this a Star Wars movie? And then people were saying it wasn't

And then I find out later that he That he pitched it as a Star Wars movie There were lightsabers and everything But they turned him down at Lucasfilm Even Lucasfilm turned away Zach Snyder So he held on to it for like 20 years And then decided to release it As soon as everyone has started

Star Wars fatigue. As soon as everyone's sick of this shit, he's like, now's the time. Fantastic time, man. A two-partner, nonetheless. They funded this at Netflix, a two-parter. They have so much confidence in faith in him. I guess people clicked on it. Yeah, they're going in on the trans media, the comic books.

They've got plans. They've got plans for Rebel Moon over at Netflix for some reason. I guess the success of, what was it called, Army of the Dead? Army of the Dead pixels. Is that what is it? Yeah, that's right. I could remember nothing about that film, so I had to re-listen to our review from whenever that came out. Yeah. Remind myself of that awful boring film as well.

But at least this one wasn't as long as that. I could give it that. And it didn't have loads of cover songs, you know? Yeah, yeah. That's one thing. I mean, this, it kind of just, it kind of just goes by and then you forget you watch the movie. So right before Alex and I started recording this, we thought we were. just going to do poor things and win the shape the barley.

We completely forgot. Alex watched it today. I watched it a couple weeks ago. We both completely forgot that we were even going to talk about this movie. That's the only reason I watched it. So this is my dedication to the audience, right? Thank you. When this film came out on the December 22nd, I watched maybe about half of it, like,

in bed on my iPad or something. And I fell asleep at a certain point. and woke up while Conan the Barbarian was riding a like an eagle thing. I don't know, I thought another movie had started or something. It was like a cliffing from Harry Potter, like flying around with. So I was like, oh, okay. And then I forgot about it until today where I started the film again and watched it from the beginning. Why would you do that?

Because I didn't take notes and there was no chance in hell I was going to remember a single detail from it. And I figured you weren't going to remember that much either, so someone's got it. I took notes, but I mean... No, I bet you won't remember anything though. No. I mean, like, you reminded me of the Avatar Eagle training cliched scene. That was funny. The characters, I wrote down a note for that.

The characters, the, like, Texan space cowboy man. His name was Hickman. Hickman. Oh, are you talking about, are you talking about, uh... The guy that made the bet, the big boy, who then got eaten, well, stomped on, I think, by the eagle. Oh, that, okay, yeah, Hickman, I see, I see. Hick man, oh man, there are so many characters that's, like, hard to keep track of what was going on, and I was especially so distracted by Charlie Hunum.

He's kind of this, like, roguish Han Solo type character who's in there. And he's doing the worst Irish accent I've heard in a long time. It's abysmal. And especially like, right, because I watched, I watched Win the Shakespeare Barley, which is obviously set in Ireland, so you're hearing these genuine accents. And then the whiplash of going to this is like, oh, my God, this is embarrassing. Is he the guy that said, I'm going to die you to a boast? Because that was one of my notes.

There was somebody that said, I'm going to die you to a boast. It was supposed to be tie you to a post. Oh, I don't even remember that line. That was a line that stuck out for me. I'm gonna die you to a boast. His most memorable line to me, spoilers for Rebel Mune. He's like a traitor character who like sells them out.

But like in the scene before he sells them out, he's like being overly nice and like being a good guy. And then he literally has a line where he's like, well, I guess that makes me a good guy, huh? And then he like, he shimsily moves his eyes around. It's like, this is juvenile writing. This is cr- I couldn't believe how bad this was. This must have been rushed together in like a weekend.

This is, it's not even first draft stuff. Well, maybe it's, it is just a leftover script. Maybe it's exactly what he pitched to Lucasfilm fucking 20 years ago. Maybe it's literally what it was.

I would not be surprised. But I meant, what is it with snow? How does he keep getting away with it? Aside from the obvious answer of the, he makes money and gets eyes. But like, this is.

He's got a very dedicated fan. base for some reason that I can't explain that part I understood that during while he was attached when he was anchored to DC I understood that you know there's a baked in audience there they love seeing this like dark edgy version of cyborg or whatever the hell he was doing um I understand that but this his original stuff like are they like diehard sucker punch fans who are like I know there exist out there like they used to be buried on tumbler though oh god yeah of course movie but I love that goddamn movie, but this is pretty much Succa Punch level to me, where it just feels like Zach Snyder's, all the things he liked when he was 14, just kind of being referenced with like nothing that links it together, no cohesion to it.

And also like a tonal inconsistency that tries to balance this self-important heavy tone, but also like the goofiness of the sci-fi setting. It's like, it's artless, it's joyless. Exactly. It's like, he doesn't even like making movies, you know? It's so weird. The reason why they had to redo the DC universe is because eventually they realized people want to see fun. And Zach Snyder forgot the fun parts of his movies.

He's like, no, this is dark and dreary and serious. And like, this is art, pretentious bullshit. This, yeah, this big pop cinema. And he's not even that good at filmmaking. Like, the lenses in this are terrible. I hate how it's shot. Oh, yeah. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

But, yeah, it is kind of missing the forest because if this was his version of Star Wars and he pitched it as a Star Wars movie, like, Star Wars is campy, it's goofy. Oh, yeah, I mean, it's hopeful. Look at his interpretation of fucking comic books. Same shit. He's like, what if we did it, but not fun?

in his mind. He's like, what if it was super cool? But he must lack a certain level of self-awareness because, like, I get doing watchman. That tone kind of fits. It's way more kind of like, nihilistic and it's supposed to be like a deconstruction of like super heroes and it is dark and edgy and it's a murder mystery. And it was also like the most violent one at the time. Exactly, yeah. And it was that was something new. It was mature. Yeah, exactly. And it's based on one of the most famous graphic novels ever created. Yeah.

But yeah, whenever he pens one of these stories, it's just like, it's so juvenile. It's basically bugs life, the story here, you know? Yes. There's a, there's a innocent farmers who are, they just be making their grain on their, their farming planet. Oh, the evil grasshoppers, I mean the empire, I mean the, what are they called here? Space Nazis. They call themselves Space Nazis.

The space Nazis. Thank you. And it's already like, in the original Star Wars it wasn't exactly subtle, you know, the like imagery they were pulling from. But he is like, yeah, let's make it even less subtle. That's kind of what he's good at, making it no level of subtlety at all. Like strip it of any subtlety. The tone insists that it's for adults, but the way it's written makes it seem like it might be for children actually. And then he's doing the whole like, we're doing an unrated.

cut, it's going to be like four hours long or some shit, I don't know, three hours long. Oh, really? He's already said that. Well, no, because like, I guess Netflix is in on, you know, the marketing strategy, which was, you know, the Snyder cut of Justice League. That got so much hype. Like, I don't know if there was a more heavily marketed or even heavily successful director's cut of a film being released. And so Netflix is just like, fuck it, have at it. But just make sure that we have a normie cut, a PG-13 cut that we can release, so long as we can say that there's an R-rated or unrated or extended director's cut coming later. So the way that they're trying to

release it, my understanding is they're not going to release the extended cut of part one until part two is out, I think, until the normal part two is out. All right. So we're stuck with the spineless cut. Cool. leading with the best foot forward clearly. There's people that exist, like unironically, they're just like they're waiting for the real cut. It's like,

well, this one was the real cut because they're working with Netflix approved it and green lit it before they even released this one. So it's not like there's a, this isn't a theatrical cut, this is a streaming service. This is literally just all hype.

It's a scam. What do you think this is? It's a scam. Yeah. It's a streaming service. Yeah, it feels like it. Really, if you have two different cuts of the film for any sort of artistic reason or like, oh, you want to have kids be able to see it. The other one's more violent.

Release them both at the same time. This is a scam. I hate how people keep defending Snyder of like, oh no, he's a true artist and a true visionary. And the, any time you see anything bad was like just Weedon's fault or like Warner Brothers fault or whoever he's wearing. It's never his fault. And then you see him without any shackles. I mean, ostensibly, allegedly, debatably. And he still makes shit movies.

You know, like, there was no... It's been so long. Army of the Dead was released in an unacceptable condition. That was unacceptable. Yeah, it was embarrassing. It was embarrassing, but popular. Very. We're at a point with Zach Snyder now where it's like, why...

Like, why did anyone ever have any belief in him as a filmmaker? Like, it sounds hard. but it's like this film is is embarrassing and it is like it's inept in ways or it's like how can you be this many films deep he's got what like 26 credits on his IMDB as director how can he be this deep and still be doing the exact same shit you've been doing man since you started falling apart with sucker punch you know and that was what 2011 it's over a decade in other films in between that it's like it's just getting worse and worse and worse and I don't know, it might even be worse than I'm either dead.

And I thought that was a boring waste of time with like a similar problem of like combining all of these random elements of like superhero zombies and this heist and all this random imagery and references to things. And it's the same thing here. It's like why you close your eyes for five minutes and open them and suddenly it's like the Dark Souls movie. There's like a spider monster. And the Asian woman character like looks like she's from Bloodbourne. and then you close your eyes again and open it and then you're in a Roman Colosseum. And so what do, like, what is the cohesion to this world? None. None. None whatsoever.

Because it really makes me appreciate Star Wars more for that, for making that work. Like, it really sells an aesthetic with how crazy it is and it feels like it is one thing. They have all these fucking ideas that they're just like trying to throw at the wall, which none of them are original, every single one of them derivative. But they're pulling a whole like, I don't know. am I going to say the word valerian again? I'm not sure. Something along those lines. And the way that they justify that is with the most fucking lazy, boring way of excusing all of these things that don't fit together.

And he's like, they're like, I'm assembling a team. The bad guy's coming in and they're going to do bad things. So I can assemble a team. So they go to all the different, they go to Hicksville. right they go to hickland and meet hickman and they're wrangling and then they go to the other spot and we see sim yeah cone the barbarians there yeah however you i don't remember what his name is and so it's just like that that justify or that's their attempt at justifying the fact that there is no cohesion between any of the ideas or set pieces that they have and it's just lazy

it's absolutely lazy it's derivative it's nothing it's like whoa you you ripped off other things and you didn't do anything nearly as good or competent as those other things. The only difference is there's slow motion in some scenes. Yeah. You just really love slow-mo. Still. That's about it. And that's such like a tired joke as well, but it's like, it's still true, you know?

He still thinks it's the coolest thing ever. You still think it's the coolest, most original thing. I mean, there's a chunk of people that really do. Yeah, you're right. But like this is it's kind of like the plot of Mass Fet 2 in a way, you know, you're assembling a team for an impossible mission and the fun is supposed to be like these small characters, well, all these, the characterization of putting this team together and the dynamics between these characters.

But like in the two hours and 20 minutes you have, each time they introduce a new element, they abandon the previous thing. Like the one good scene I'll give this movie, it has one. It has a good scene. And that's the, you know, it's the. Yeah, it has one, I would say. And even then, it's ruined by certain things, which I'll mention in a second. But it's, uh, they introduced in the beginning this character that seems like he's going to be like a big deal to the movie.

This Anthony Hopkins robot, right? Yeah. Who's like, and they go into all this law of like, oh, there's, there's a whole like dune there are like royal families. And one day there was like a royal princess or whatever who died. And when she died, then all the robots suddenly refused to fight. anymore so they're all like pacifists now um and there's a scene where anthony hopkins robot get it's a really awful scene before it where uh the the villainous characters like they shoot at the robot and he gets all like covered in mud and he has to go wash himself by a river or whatever um

and yeah it's heavy-handed and goofy and kind of like the jesus imagery thing that he's always doing um yeah but that was like the the one scene i thought was like that's why people like him so much Yeah, maybe I was like, okay, I kind of like this robot, Anthony Hopkins, he's got like a cool delivery with his voice. I thought the effects actually looked a lot better in that scene when it was in the water and he was like, there was clearly like some mocap and a lot of cool effects going on there.

There's like a good shot from underneath the bridge with a nice reflection, well-framed. It's like the one shot in the whole film. And it makes you think, well, this seems to be like a core character to this is going to have something to do or something. No. And then that's just abandoned. And then it goes to, yeah, the Coliseum to the blah, blah, blah.

I'm not even convinced he'll have a major role in the sequel. I think, like, they almost teased it. I'm like, I'm not even convinced that we'll get that. Yeah. Maybe he's filling up the entire, like, missing 40 minutes of the alternate cut. Maybe there's an entire B story that we've missed. Probably, yeah. Probably, yeah.

Yeah, because when he shows up, he shows up for like one shot at the end and, and, you And this time he's like, he's got like a staff and he's got like deer antlers attached to his head and stuff. So what's going on here? What is going on? There was probably an interesting story we didn't see. Yeah, yeah. Well, I thought the structure was really going to be more of a kind of cutting back and forth

to the like home planet, um, showing the state of like the oppression and have some tension to this place that they're supposed to be defending, that it's supposed to be like their homeland that they're all fighting for. but it's really just abandoned for the whole movie. And because they set it up as like, yeah, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the mother ship or whatever that is that the oppressors come down from is there. The, the, the Nazi officer guy comes down is like, you have, you have, you have nine weeks to bring us grain because our super advanced.

Yeah, we don't know agriculture. All across the galaxy. Yeah, we don't know agriculture. We can bring people back from the dead. We've got that technology. we've got we've got whole planets dedicated to cobalt mining and all of this sort of thing but we can't we can't farm grain no it's an ancient wisdom these are the basic these are the basic of basic stakes so you so you're thinking oh so they're gonna have to they have nine weeks to prepare

something to prepare an army so when they're back there'll be some kind of fight or whatever but it doesn't go that way at all because then there's this kind of weird like attempted rape scene with all the soldiers and it turns into this really awfully choreographed lame fight scene with the main character is killing all the soldiers with an axe and it cuts every time she pones them she does pown and it's in slow-mo so it's really cool yeah slow-mo and there's no blood and again just the tonal thing of like see you can't show the violence but you're having the framing of this be something as extreme as that yeah okay and

that's another recurring thing thing and loads of his movies. He loves that in Circle Punch as well. It's like the only thing he knows how to write villains as their motivation or whatever. So then after that, all the soldiers are killed that were kind of occupying this farmland. And instead of the empire, I'm just going to call them the empire. Fuck it. Sure.

You can call them whatever you want. So instead of the empire, I guess they did. know that all the soldiers that they deployed there were killed and didn't immediately just glass it from space and just take it. They just kind of wait around and just, I guess they just don't care about that. No. And there are so many points in the world building that contradicts itself because the main character it's revealed at a certain point used to be like with the empire and she was like

high up in the empire and she was trained by a high up guy in it, the big bad guy. So she's a really good fighter and all of this and all that. And she knows that they're here for everything. They're going to decimate and take everything. That was a literal quote. What they're going to do? Yeah, exactly. What are they going to take?

What do they want? Everything. And then he repeats it as well. Oh, they want everything. When the villain guy comes down. Oh, yeah. I do want everything, actually. Yeah, exactly.

And then in the flashback later, she describes how when they, plunder they don't even ask for anything they just take it just for the thrill of the chase I guess just for the thrill of plundering like Vikings or something so then you're wondering wait so why didn't they just do that earlier anyway to the farmers like none of this makes any sense like as far as like building tensions or establishing universe well you needed the speech yeah it's all this is like how to not do world building. It's actually horrendous, like the aesthetics and all of it all clashes. A lot of telling and not showing, I noticed. A lot of huge, heavy exposition dumps that were very boring. Visually, this movie, it's kind of sad when you're pretending to do this whole

expansive world and universe and especially, especially when you're showing so many different planets and settings. And throughout the entire film, I don't believe a single one. of them. Like, none of them are convincing in terms of how they're presented visually in terms of in terms of believing that the characters are in the universe and the actors are in the scene. And then just believing that the universe exists. Like, there's no, like you said, there's no cohesion to it. It doesn't feel convincing in any way. It really just feels like green screen, Mandelorian Room, the movie. Well, yeah, I don't think there's anything that looks as good as the Mandalorian in this.

Um, oh, it really is embarrassing. Like, everything looks like grease is smeared over the lens. Oh, yeah. It's bizarre. I don't know if that's a budgetary thing or stylistic thing. No, he was just, it was literally just fucking out of focus for like half the movie. He's using shit lenses. Like the choice of lens.

I don't know what the hell he was thinking. He was DP, wasn't he? Of course he was. He was for the last fucking movie where there was dead pixels all over the fucking screen. Like, he had the, guy's a fucking incompetent idiot. Is this a yes man problem? I don't know.

I don't know. He's got fans though. So like he he boasts. Oh my God. Listen to him behind the scenes about talking like just, oh yeah, you know, I've got a very strong visual style. Like he's all of this was intentional. All of this was intentional.

You look at like some of the bridge shots early in the movie like around 13 minutes. I timestamped in my notes. They're just out of focus. like entire wide shots that are like completely out of focus. And when they're out of focus with, it's all throughout the movie, it's all throughout the movie. And when the things are out of focus,

you're absolutely right with how it looks like the shit smeared on the screen. I wrote, one of my notes is, I felt like it looked like watching a 3D movie without the 3D glasses. Yeah. Is that how it felt like to be.

It's just, it looks terrible. It looks genuinely terrible. And, like, maybe I kind of got used to it over the course of the film, but damn, I don't know what you were thinking. It's what the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah, I was like genuinely considering, like, because the number that's being floated around for the budget of both parts is about 166 million right now. So, if you have that, maybe you're trying to hide some of the visual effects. I don't know what the thinking was behind that. I don't know.

It goes beyond that though like you could forgive visual effects at a certain level if like there was some charisma to it You know some original ideas some good dialogues some characters that were fun none of it The lead character is so unlikable and like all the characters are well the no one could sell this dialogue They're so cool though Don't you think they're cool though that's what so it's so everything just reads like what like a 14 year old finds cool you know like the whole you know like the whole the whole gang coming together right like you imagine in something like mass effect it's people of all different ages all these different aliens they've all got completely different slices of life but then like in this movie they're all just like ripped cool action people like one of the characters

for example is supposed to be this it's like a defamed general he's he's in the coliseum and he's washed up and he's he's drinking or whatever and he's got his beard is long and he doesn't know what he's doing um And that would be a cool character if like maybe he was you know he was past his prime but like deep down in there there There's like this knowledge of this general in there and that's what's valuable about him like that that knowledge that strategy or whatever But no, he's just like a ripped just like action figure just action man So they don't know how to he doesn't know how to characterize so it's so weak no everyone everyone just says exactly like what's on their mind the second they come up with it and they're always like repeating dialogue and phrases in these very particular ways and speaking of the word very that was the thing I kind of was alluding to earlier with the Anthony Hopkins character he he has a line our very joy died with that young girl and that stood out to me because mere minutes before there was also a line from the main character who also said the very idea of love was beaten out of me which stood out to me because it's just like what why is everyone's speaking the same way, the very idea of life.

Oh, yeah. Oh, very joy. It's like, wow. It's like, oh. Yeah, it's like writing 101. You know, you see, you see words you're like repeating and be like, oh yeah, that looks kind of awkward that I've repeated that specific phrase or that had different characters speak in the exact same way. But it's like not even picked up. It's like, even minutes apart.

I just don't know how you wouldn't pick this up when I'm like watching it or writing it. And it's like, there are three. There are three writers credited. You know, it's like, there's no excuse. Because at a certain point, it's like, there is an opportunity cost to all this. There's a lot of like man power, a lot of like manpower that's gone into this film. A lot of like arms, a lot of resources that have been sunk into this. And it's like, for what?

Well, you look at the success of something like Star Wars and you think, I want all of that success and then that's that's the whole motivation you can't do it you will you look at it and you're like okay merchandising right we're gonna want people to dress up like there people are gonna want to buy the light swords that are not not light savers I don't know people are gonna want a little yeah what could you even merchandise from this fucking uh funco pops of anthony hopkins row fuck I don't know like if it's successful enough, then people will just want to like, it'll become a pop culture thing.

Like, I think, I don't know, he probably wants fucking 10 Netflix spin-off shows. He wants to see the same success that Disney Plus had with his other shit. Like, I don't know. Why the fuck else would you make a Star Wars clone? Clearly, you don't care about the story if you're just being derivative and ripping off

other things. Like, you're not telling something from your soul that you wanted to express. There wasn't something that you had to get out. Like, I just needed to tell this story. No, you didn't do that. So, it seems to be purely just a money thing. It goes beyond being bad.

Like, it's really cringy. Like, it's actually embarrassingly cringy. Like, when they show the flag of the empire, whatever, it's got like the Illuminati eye in the middle. It's like, why do you think that's cool? You know, like, none of this is cool imagery. This is like incredibly lame. It goes hand in hand with sucker bunch.

It's on that level of like, this sucks. Like, this actually is fucking embarrassing. Well, what's funny is, so I did a little browse through his IMDB just now. He mostly works with existing IPs. And Sucker Punch is like one of his only not based off of another IP movies. And then Army of the Dead and then Rebel Moon. And it's like, okay, well, Army of the Dead is just, you might as well, I don't even know.

Did they pay licensing to like, fucking George A. Romero or whoever owns, like, Donna the Dead? Because that seems like just such a similar title. Like, you'd have to pay royalties or have to, I don't know.

Yeah, that does seem. And then this is a Star Wars clone. And then I guess sucker punch is like the most original movie he's ever made. Original in quotes. Yeah. Well, yeah.

I mean, like the least derivative. Was Legends of the Guardians based on something? It was based on something. Is that like a book or something? I guess it's a book. Oh, okay. That's the one I haven't seen.

I remember liking it outside of one very bad musical segment scene. A bad musical segment? Well, they, okay, so here's, okay, spoilers for Legends of the Guardians, the elves of Gahoul. So they decide, because it's orbiting this weird place between Zach Snyder film and kids' movie. And so, you know, there's cool animation and slow-mo fight sequences that I thought worked for like, you know, owl characters flying around and shit. It's like, okay, some good fight sequences in here. And I like to the kind of serious tone. And then in the middle of the fucking movie, they're like, oh, well, we're going to fly over to this place.

And you have this transitionary scene. And what song do they fucking play? They play fucking Owl City song. They couldn't fucking help themselves. They played Owl City in the Owl movie for obvious reasons. I don't remember if it was Fireflies or a different one. That sounds like you're making it up. No, it sounds like I'm making it up.

That's the scene that stuck out to me the most. And I could not tell you much else about the film because I watched it in a theater. And I was like, you pieces of shit. absolute pieces of shit I'm sure you could find the scene on YouTube if you wanted that's hilarious oh my god

I know I just I couldn't believe it and it's it doesn't fit with the rest of the movie at all like the tone or anything I'm seeing here a bunch of he's directed a bunch of Morrissey music videos too which it's all starting to make sense to me now that's kind of funny

yeah right back to Rebel Moon like what's something that actually happened but from the space belfast it being harry potter randomly Conan flying a griffin dark soul spider lightsabers there was a dark soul spider gladiator arena there's like a yeah just straight up that spider from dark souls pretty much

that was a thing that happened yeah well it just does that like it just establishes something as I'm saying no no we actually don't want to do that we're just going to go somewhere else now just do something completely unrelated And there's no resistance. So I was like checked out of the movie pretty quickly because, you know. Yeah, of course. What is there to attack yourself to you? But I made it.

I'm always coming. I'm like the McGuiver of finding ways to make me not Minecraft while watching movie. Yeah. So I just started doing like vine boom sand effects. Whenever they said like a line, they deliver a line, be like, I'm going to die you to a boast. and I just play it on my phone. Just like a big...

Damn, it didn't even play for my phone. I was hoping to just do that in front of the microphone. Have to add it in post. What the fuck is wrong with my phone? It's been doing... There we go. That's what happened. Yeah.

Nice. All right. Yeah, that might as well have been in the movie with how, like, melodramatic and over the top of everything. It's like, just unself-aware it is, you know? And some of the actors, like, I've seen them deliver good performances before. Like the fellow from Game of Thrones, Michael Huesman, he's kind of like, it's revealed, it's almost presented like a twist that he's like the love interest for the main character.

Someone just comes up behind him and just goes, I know you're in. Yeah, it's the Irish guy, the Charlie Hunnam character. It's like, I know you love the main character, don't you? And that's supposed to be like, yeah, as an audience member, as audience members, we know. We've been seeing that chemistry build and there's clearly something between them. But you're just like, what, what? I didn't pick up that at all. That was not how I read that one bit.

No, I mean, from the very beginning of the fucking movie, the soundtrack was just insisting so much without anything having happened. Yeah. Like, she's just in the field, like, fucking doing nothing. And the music is insisting, like, there was some sort of grand reveal or, like, something built up to this. or I'm like, what am I, what are I supposed to be feeling right now? I don't understand. Yeah, it presents itself with such gravitas that's just not earned. Not earned at all.

It's obviously trying to channel, you know, the Lute Skywalker in the desert looking up at the two sons, you know, type. Oh, yeah, it thinks it's just epic by showing the set that doesn't even look convincing. Yeah, yeah, the film from the 60s looks better than it. It thinks it's being so epic. Yeah, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. And then as you said earlier, the whole like,

the saying instead of showing type stuff. That gladiator character who gets no development and is just like, most of the character, there's too many characters and none of them get anything to do. So then like when the villain confronts him towards the end and he's going through one by one after they've been ambushed and they were all in these weird bounty hunter machines that like can disable your spine. He has a line where he like,

he looks at the gladiator character and is like, Ah yes, your actions at the Battle of Sarawu proceed you. So what the fuck are you talking about? What are you actually talking about? You never showed that. You're just saying that. I guess that's for part two. That's part two, yeah.

It's extended cut. You got to go back to Netflix and watch an even longer version of the same movie to get the full experience. And they're talking the whole time about like the resistance. There's the resistance out there, the rebels. The rebels are out there somewhere. And you eventually get to meet them. Ray Fisher comes back.

A cyborg is there. And they're acting like this is huge character. He's like a big deal. And then literally in the next scene, he sacrifices himself. And they're acting like it's a big deal. I just met this guy. Why would I care that he's sacrificing himself and taking down this big mothership? Like, why are you giving it to that character?

Because it's important. The music is saying that... It insists it's important. I'm done talking about this shit. I'm getting bored. I just mentioned those... I've got like two little things left, look. I mentioned those bounty hunter machine...

They're these weird, like, they're like boxes, and they unfold into these, like, they look like robots, robot spines that, like, pick people up for, like, bounty hunters to bring people in. They dedicate this whole scene to showing them off. and how they like kill people. But then the next time it's used, these same machines are explained to just disable people. And it's just like, you can't even keep it straight, like within five minutes of yourself, you know? I like how the villain survived for no reason at the end.

Yeah, he's like reborn. There was a real like matrix kind of ending. Duh matrix. But really, what part of this insisted the need for two parts? None. Absolutely none. Same part that justified there being a fucking director's cut. They don't care.

Netflix, I've said this before. I'm pretty sure streaming services just want as much content as possible in length. Yeah. Just so that you're constantly having something to finish so that you stay subscribed longer. It's a subscription service. That would be the strat. is just making things really long so that people always have something unfinished. As soon as people run out of things to watch on your platform, then people won't click on it.

And as far as I'm aware, like, this is a successful film that many people watch. Yeah, what is the metric of success? I have no idea what the metric of success is. I don't know if Netflix lies about their numbers. I can tell you that the trailer has fucking six. 16 million views, that's not bad. But like, how many people are doing that just to, like, clown on Snyder also? Like, if I click on this, is it going to be a bunch of unironic comments in the comment section?

Yeah, that's what I'm seeing. Unlike the Snyder Cut, though, like, people don't really like it, you know? Like, the ratings aren't good, the critical reviews aren't good. People love the Snyder Cut, man. It's got, like, over a seven, I think, on, like, an DVD, for example. Tons of ratings. Yeah, whereas this is sitting at a 5.6 from 88K ratings right now Which even that is genus

Wow, that's got a 7.9 Exactly, yeah, that's what I'm saying, like that that's different But I think that's the DC bump because it's just like characters people know and are attached to already Whereas like outside of outside of that one character that you'd noted down Give me a name of one of these characters So other than Hickman I've got nothing.

You know I don't have anything. I wrote it down because it was a funny name. I don't remember the other names. Oh wait, I just saw that the Anthony Hopkins character is called Jimmy. That's quite funny. Cool. Okay. Nice one.

But yeah, I think that's most of what I have to say. This is abysmal. I thought it looked bad already. I thought it looked pretty shocking from the trailers and whatnot, but actually watching it's just like this is this is writing so inept it is one of those examples like suicide squad like valerian where it's like yeah make all the inverse choices and you would have a pretty good movie probably it's like that level of bad you know yeah this would i would give this a half star i hate this film like i actually think this is so embarrassing um

for snider and there's no excuse because it's like you know how many people would be clawing for the opportunity to get their story out there. They're 166 million for their four hours, probably four and half hours, if they're both like two hours, 20. We don't want to think of their story out there. Better uses for this money. That's too depressing. No, that's, exactly. Yeah.

It gets to a point where it's like, this is comical. How much money you're giving him to make this? It's, it's, no, I get some under my skin. It's not. It's an artist. People like him. It's too much. It's too much.

It's his job is to be a storyteller, but the storyteller, but the storyteller, is an app, like actually inapt. Yeah, it's funny. Genuinely, I think the, uh, the difference between, uh, the amount of people that watched this versus the amount of people that liked it, I think it's probably because a big marketing budget, uh, Netflix had, you know, posters for these everywhere and like airports and stadiums and, you know, pretty sure they had it like on a UFC, on the UFC mat and shit.

Like they were paying for people to see it. Front page in Netflix, as soon as it opens up. up like big things. Rebel Moon, big poster. And I think the average person is going to look at that and think, oh, the new Star Wars and think that maybe they have to watch it to be a part of a cultural conversation. And maybe if they don't think it's exactly Star Wars, maybe something subconscious in someone's brain makes you feel like you have to watch it to like be a part of something. The fact that it says part one, I think also helps. I think if it didn't say part one, less people would have watched it

because it's like, you look at that, like, oh, they obviously spend a lot of money on this and then it's a part one, like, oh, they've really, they really put their faith in this. Like, then you kind of feel obligated to watch it. And I guess some evidence in your favor for that is like that huge Star Wars channel, Star Wars Theory.

Like, I remember when this film came out, he did like a big stream and a big like hoopla about this movie. Like, yeah, real Star Wars is here. Let's go. Oh, really? And then like, Noah mentions it again, yeah. A Star Wars channel did that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you serious? I'm serious, yeah, Star Wars theory. He was hyped about this, yeah, yeah. That sounds like you were making it for a joke. But, no, I'm serious. But yeah, it's beyond parody at this point. His films are beyond parodies of themselves.

It's crazy. It's like what someone would make if you wanted to, like, make fun of Zach Snyder. There's no way he'd make something that bad, you know? Yeah. It's like, nope. That's actually the point we're at. And so unfortunate, because, I don't know, he's, I find him quite likable in some of these things I've seen with him. Like, I saw this clip of him at a stand-up show.

He was, like, randomly in the crowd. And, like, he was, like, singled out by the audience by happenstance. And I don't know, I've seen some, like, just charming clips of him, but I just, I just hate his films. I just think. I doubt, from what I've seen, like, he doesn't seem like a bad person. He just makes me very bad. It's like the inverse. And has one of the worst fan bases maybe?

Like for a director, like pretty high up there, actually. Can you think of a director with a worst fan base? Because like most of the bad fan bases are just like, oh, Marvel or DC. But like this is like the director himself has absorbed the DC fan base. The cultish sort of. Yeah. I don't think I can think of one on that level. People don't, people, yeah, they normally attach.

themselves to the property more yeah than that you know but they're kind of just like dedicated George Lucas it's Star Wars yeah but was that daddy side well I enjoyed this a little bit more than Army of the Dead but that's not a very high bar Army of the Dead's like one of the worst things I've ever seen I gave this a two out of ten Rebel Moon I gave it two out of ten it could be because I was watching the correct version of the film so consider that Um, fuck this movie and fuck Netflix. That is correct.

It's one of those things where, uh, people, people talk about how Netflix is like, oh, Netflix is gone to shit. They don't have good content anymore. blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, like, yeah, their original programming has gone downhill, but it's because people watch it. It's because people are fucking clicking on this shit. Yeah.

Gets engagement, yeah. Exactly. Like, you look at all the dumb-ass reality TV shit. that they produce. Guess what? People in America are watching it. This is the most popular streaming service. People are clicking on this shit.

They're doing what gets clicks, so you can't blame them business-wise. It's quite a contrast to back in the day where they really had to prove themselves of someone like House of Cards. And watching that was like, wow, you know, they've got Fincher in here. Yeah. Shows that people talked about versus shows that people just put on because they're tired at the end of the day and don't actually want to engage with something. Yeah.

Like things to fall asleep too is the cornered market they got now. And I mean, this was a very sleepy movie. This was a sleepy baby movie. Oh, incredibly sleepy. Well, I literally fell asleep the first time. Yeah, actually. It's a good sleep aid, yeah. So maybe I need to bump up the school for that sleep aid nature of it.

ASMR, Zaddy sounds to fall asleep too. Ooh, there will be a three-hour version. it'll be perfect when that comes out. Oh, that's, yeah, that is perfect. Perfect, ultimate sleeper. Better movie we watch. Poor things. The new Yorgos-Lanthimos film.

We might have talked about it earlier, but they released it in the UK later than everyone for some reason. Or later than other Western countries. Yeah, last Friday it came out here. Don't know why. Spoiler alert for this film. We're going to spoil the show.

it out of it. We both recommend it. I don't even have to ask you, Alex. I know you were like, of course, this is a great movie. You're not going to tell me like it sucked or anything, right? No, I adored it. I absolutely adore it. It's probably, it's probably my number one from 2020. I was thinking, I was thinking, probably, yeah,

for myself as well. I don't say 22. I don't know. Yeah, it's my number one right now. Yeah, man, what like a demented fun film. It's crazy. It's so sick. Yeah. Yeah.

with a lot of backbone like when I left the when I left the screening I said to the person I saw it with that's my Barbie right there not that I didn't like Barbie but like it's underlying themes and what it was going for like that message wrapped up with this aesthetic and this writing that's what I'm after I loved I don't even know where to I guess the production design is like a good place to start because like just from the from the word go with this film with the marketing like I haven't seen posters this good in a long time but love the posters for this film and that leans into the yeah yeah lanthamos is always great he does have very new posters actually yeah type of style he wants to communicate with his posters they always they're always very intriguing they're always like I wonder what this is about yeah interesting and different And yeah, while I enjoyed the kind of period piece and nature of the favorite, I guess I wasn't expecting the kind of fantasy, almost like, almost like Bioshock infinite at points, like the saturated colors, like crazy else world, Frankenstein thing it was going for. Yeah, in combination with the like fish eye type lenses and almost kind of like those vignette things.

Yeah, I loved the use of the fish eye. Because you bring up the favorite. That was one of my minor criticisms with the favorite. And I've only seen it once. Maybe I won't feel like it's as much of a criticism. But there's like two or three shots in the favorite that are kind of like fish eye lens pivot pan shots or whatever. And they feel kind of out of place because not only is it a period film where you don't necessarily want to be thinking about the camera. and lens.

But the rest of the film, the style didn't, like, it wasn't that extreme. So when it, the few moments that were extreme in, in, uh, the favorite kind of just stood out. And I was like, okay, I was just reminded I was watching a movie not as cohesive as it could have been. I love that movie. But poor things. Mm-hmm.

They turned it up to fucking 11 where all throughout the film, the use of lenses and the angles and the visual style. of it is so fucking extreme that it fits. And despite this also being a very piece. It's so like maximalist, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it all works really well, especially with the story that they're telling, especially with the tone, especially with the soundtrack.

Like every element of this fits like a puzzle piece and it complements itself. Absolutely perfectly. Yeah. And I just love those like weird, quirky, fancy elements like the, it can get a little bit steampunk at points with like that weird horse and carriage with the oh yeah that will and foes character makes because it is the the general plot i guess is the it's kind of like a spin on Frankenstein with this this whole as i said demented idea of a pregnant woman who commits suicide and this frankenstein type character retrieves her body takes the brain of the baby from inside her

and puts it into the grown woman's head and uh yeah so you have this whole journey of this juvenile, fully grown woman kind of creepiness and her eventually kind of gaining agency. And I kind of read it as like a, I mean, it's not really hiding it, but the whole like infanticizing angle where, uh, true, these people are like taking advantage of her and, uh, that I love, there's, there's a line where, um, the Mark Ruffalo character who is this kind of fop who whisks her away from the the Frankenstein castle type setting and takes her traveling all around the world he starts liking her less the more intelligent

she becomes and the the better vocabulary becomes and he likes her most when she has the literal brain of a child like a literal brain of a child yeah baby's quite funny yeah yeah basically and I really thought I thought I thought I thought for Emma Stone that is she must have had belief in this project because man, there's quite a bold, and I know bold is quite like an overused term when talking about films, but like you have to believe a role like this to be able to sell it because if this didn't come together, it could be like it's embarrassing. It could be a career ender for some people.

This is a very controversial subject. you know baby brain becomes a nympho yeah yeah and it shows a lot of it too that's a lot of it and at the same time

by the way a very feminist movie but I could see pissing some people off that may or may not be families yeah it would definitely be a fun one to watch with the whole family yeah I'm glad I didn't see it with my mom

I think you got... Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. It's extremely explicit, but that's the whole point. Sex and sexuality is so deeply baked in and explored very thoroughly through the FOP character, through the whole section where in Paris with the whorehouse and everything. And yeah, they really do explore that side of it. And it has a very unpredictable structure in that sense.

I really did think most of the film was going to be set more in the Frankenstein-type castle and ambying more about her escaping. But it's like, oh, no, she's whisked away almost instantly. Yeah. And then the cutting back with the like new Emma Stone like replacement is like really funny. I thought I thought this was hilarious, like genuinely funny. Like really good comedy writing. Oh, it's great. I, yeah, I was I was transfixed the entire time.

I was never, never at any point. having to uh having to pay attention to the movie the movie commanded my attention it's just absolute joy to watch i'm i'm curious how your audience reacted because like a lot of the time i was the only one laughing and i was in a pack theater and i made some people were complaining after the uh killers of the flammany discussion they're like why is alex always going to these scuffed cinemas where like the that's like a focus and it's all like garbage. I may I went out my way to go to like one of these nice things with

sofas and everything so like Tivoli or whatever I'm like this is come yeah this is gonna be the proper crowd for a film like this they're gonna be they're gonna be in but and I don't know if they were expecting something else or they didn't realize it was a like a Lathomas type thing because it wasn't surprising to me on that level knowing what its films are like but man people just weren't really reacting it was quite weird because I thought it was hilarious well do you think that they like didn't like it by the end of it because I I brought a couple people to the movie.

Theater wasn't packed or anything. I found myself to be laughing, maybe the only person laughing out loud at the film. And I generally don't, because I don't find many things funny. But I love the morbid, intense humor, and I love how it didn't hold back and how it was risk-taking, et cetera, et cetera.

Like, this is my type of thing. And I think maybe we're both just kind of like, so jaded and used to a lot of other types of things that we really connect with the more extreme and especially particularly well done uh extreme yeah comedy like disturbing awkward uh vulgar and like just shock service of something though it's not it's not just yeah it's not just being shot comedy for the sake of it though it is all no exactly exactly is exploring something and central character is so compelling. And here's the thing.

The people I went with loved it. They thought it was incredible. So it's not like... Good, yeah. And looking at like the IMDB ratings, like, everybody who sees it seems to be loving it. I don't know if it's just the right people are seeing it. Like, surely, surely this has got to get somewhat into the mainstream.

Well, that's why I ask, because I never know, especially with British audiences, we're very... uh that's the best word for it yeah when it shakes the barley discussion but uh we're quite introvert

we're quite I don't know we keep ourselves to ourselves I don't know if maybe they were finding it hilarious but it just weren't expressing it they were just keeping it all internal or something but uh that was quite weird but like the dance scene and stuff

there's quite a lot of like slapstick kind of humor like physical humor um as well damn I wish this movie was at Tiff. I feel like that would have been the perfect crowd. Yeah. It really would have been great. That would have been. That would be fantastic. Yeah. We wouldn't have been the only people laughing. Yeah, I don't know why it wasn't there actually. Yeah, just different movies sometimes get different film festivals. This one went to Venice and Venice was taking place like I think during Tiff too. So there's probably. Yeah. I'm pretty sure poor things was at BFI actually, but I didn't make it there this year. Yeah. Yeah. I want to point out the

the soundtrack. This is the... Yeah, I wanted to talk about this. This is the first film that this composer has scored. And they've done other things too. They scored like a play, some sort of like live theater thing. And they had a couple other things on their Wikipedia,

I forget. But this is the first film that they've scored. I find it incredible that Yorgo is just, you know, not just composers, but like everybody that he works with. He always manages to find the most talented people and the most fitting people for the project. Like, immediately, as soon as the first bits of the score, like the actual theme started

playing, and it was synced to Emma Stone's character, like, hitting the table. Basically, the first, like, three or four hits were in sync with the first three or four plucks of that piece of the soundtrack. Yeah. And it created what I considered to be a new sound that I hadn't heard before. Like even ignoring like the, you know, smashing the table sort of thing. The sort of twanged, imperfect pitch, variable pitch sort of notes with what sounds like a harp, but being played in a way that you'd more commonly associate with like, I don't know, like a guitar or,

like maybe even a slide guitar and the way that it's written is so smart because the root notes always stay consistent in terms of not having that variable pitch. There's a solid root note like

boom boom boom boom boom boom but then the top notes in each chord that's being played the twang like and that's never consistent. And so it allows, it enforces this kind of like almost drunk feeling of like you're, it's kind of confusing. And you know what the notes are supposed to be because of the root note staying consistent

and informs your brain on what notes are supposed to be playing in the top part of the chord. So the fact, yeah, it's essentially written in a way where it's giving you clues that there are quote unquote wrong notes that kind of slide in to correct themselves. And it works and it's very interesting and it creates something new and it fits with the visuals. It fits with the story. It fits with everything. And it's comedic. It's bizarre.

And what was even more impressive was how later on as the film goes on, it starts to adapt, adopt like a more traditional, more. emotional, seriously toned, sad, orchestral kind of score. In line with the character, yeah. Yeah, and it transitions to that and has different themes at the right moments, in the right scenes, and it feels just as effective in the sense of being properly scored and orchestrated and written and composed. It's and it's a very different style from that other theme I was talking about which gets reincorporated a lot through the movie

That's probably the most common one is that like harp twang thing Yeah, but the other one's just you know it doesn't show up as often, but it's just it's so professionally done and it's kind of like a surprise and being like oh, you can do this too It was just such a joy hearing hearing the score throughout the film. It does really match the like surreal Manic nature of what's going on it does perfectly compliment it. I'm curious how you feel about the special effects and the production design as applying

to especially these these kind of creatures that are walking around. There's like a duck Frenchie. Yeah. I mean it's funny because all these weird things. The the comedic tone of this film

and the bizarre you know, like the harsh style, the huge style of this and the bizarre nature of everything happening, you're not forced to be wondering whether or not that's possible, and you're not forced to be wondering the inner mechanics of like, okay, should the pig be making a pig noise and a duck noise?

Where is vocal cords? How does it digest food? I'm not going to think about that because it's obvious It's just that it's not what the movie is about. And it's more of like an aesthetic. It's a real. Yeah, it's an aesthetic and a visual choice. And it adds to the, it helps enforce the tone of the rest of the movie. Right?

It helps enforce like what it's going for creatively. And it's not like it starts and ends there. No. Like the Willem Defoe character who haven't really mentioned much, I love the prosthetics on him, by the way. The commitment to that is awesome. Yeah, great makeup. Of course, the performance is wonderful as well.

But, like, he's got weird character quirks. Like, when he's eating, he just puts his head up and a bubble comes out and, like, pops with this certain noise each time. It's like, I don't even know what to interpret from that. Like, I don't even know what to read, but it's like. Yeah, I don't understand that. But I don't know if we're ever supposed to. No, I think it's just surreal and dreamlike and, like, that somehow just makes sense in this world. That just feels like.

it would be something that would fit in just like the weird hybrid creatures and the baby woman and the cable cars going around in time periods. Yeah. It doesn't make sense. And these weird, we haven't really mentioned the use of color, but it's so, it's so vibrant and varied and has sections of the film in black and white. Yeah, the color is incredible. I'm just so blown away by their production design.

And the skies. Yeah, especially those skies. I just love that approach which is just ultimate creativity like I'm not being restricted by any anything in reality I'm just really leaning into the wackiness of this and but not taking it too far

I don't that's what is so crazy to me about the fact that it is somehow grounded in something I don't know if that's helped by the fact that it is based on a novel which I'm quite curious to read from a Scottish author and it looks like quite an interesting book and a lot of the good ideas obviously come from that, but bringing it to life in such a creative way. Yeah, it's so vibrant. It's so interesting and unpredictable.

And while we have just been talking a lot about the comedy, there are definitely points where it does get real. It does have drama and the main character. I just love that as she gets more agency and gets a vocabulary and she starts reading and start caring about different things other than just sex. What that brings out of her and some of the dialogue that comes with that. Yeah, it's just absolutely in love with that. It's a really good excuse to have a character that's essentially just unfiltered and is able to get placed into any scenario that an adult would be conditioned to

expect as normal, but she's immediately there in questioning. So the dinner conversation, right? Like, why do I have to pretend to enjoy this? I'm like, you know, good point. Good point. Yeah. The excuse to have her questioning these things through the eyes of a child is a very appropriate and fitting one.

It works really well for the film. And yeah, the idea that she basically gets to, she gets to play basically like 10 different characters in one. She's like kind of changing with each scene that passes. So that must have been extremely fun and challenging for Emma Stone to play. But it's also very fun and engaging to watch because there's just such a interesting way to like explore a character arc with them. It's just such a good excuse to show a character changing very quickly without having to do big jumps in time, without having to keep to any logic.

It is a very smart kind of concept brought to life. This is my ideal Black Christmas 2019. Because I mentioned in the last episode. There are some similar points being made about like gender commentary. There's the idea of like men and control and like seeing women as things to control. like that's not an invalid thing to bring up and that's an interesting thing to explore yeah but there's very different ways that you can explore gender commentary in a film and depending on how competent of a writer you are and how obnoxious of a person you are you'll

come out with two different two different pieces of art my uh with all with all the compliments I was a really thrown. My favorite character was actually the owner of the like hall house in Paris, the Catherine Hunter character. What a, what a memorable, even though she's not in it much. She's got that voice. Yeah. That, that, the, the costume design, like, covered in the tattoos and her weird little quirks going for the lobes. The height. This whole commentary on the, the age and the, it's kind of like, you know, the scene from Barbie on the bench with the, acknowledging the kind of older women and the, and how people. treat them differently and that was another good dynamic when she's on the boat too with the

older woman that she kind of bonds with and that's what gets her start reading damn this is really just better barbie yeah kind of yeah um yeah um mark ruffalo is like getting upset with her reading and he just keeps throwing her novels into the into the ocean and the old lady keeps handing her a new one um yeah just really funny dynamics and these really memorable characters that just come in and out and have different perspectives like the um the fella who's with that old lady on the boat he's kind of like this he's kind of like a nihilist almost yeah he like takes joy from bringing her down to he's like I guess he calls himself a realist or something like this and shows her all the poor people and his philosophy is anti-philosophy yeah yeah and he's like

his whole thing is like propping himself up by putting everyone down I guess um and it like brings the character to her knees but she learns like a important lesson and she always tends to have quite an accurate assessment of people like the whole like the whole way the film wraps up with her her husband that she finds out about I guess ex-husband um and she just kind of goes out of curiosity and just completely assesses him with 100% accuracy and it's like I want to go now because I realize I realize exactly what's going on here and you're a freak. And yeah, the comedy that comes from that and the kind of, the reminder of like, yeah, this is definitely like a type of person.

It's exaggerated and controlling and insane. But, yeah, these are, this is a commentary that is apt and applicable, despite its surreal nature. I'm glad Christopher Abbott is getting more work because I like him. Yeah, I've only seen him in a couple of things, but I thought it was a good memorable performance, even though it was only in a small amount. Yeah, he's had a bunch of small roles throughout the years, and he's been in some good stuff. Yeah, I remember him in it comes at night. Yeah, he was the lead role in a movie called James White from 2015 that I thought was fucking awesome and just nobody saw. and I don't know why nobody saw it.

Oh really? Yeah. Basically no ratings. Big oops. I'm curious if there's anything you didn't love about the movie because I was really like trying to wrap my brain for something. No, there's nothing. There's no criticism that I have about this movie. I couldn't think of anything.

Because I've seen a few complaints about like some of the, like the CG or this and that. But none of that ever bothered me. It really, how do you, yeah, how do you complain about that? What's the complaint? Just that it doesn't look convincing or it's like. I mean, neither to the sky is, I guess it's a fucking style. Yeah, it's almost like a cartoon. It's so crazy and over the top.

Yeah, there's so much of it that, yeah. It all seemed intentional and, man, there's just so much to appreciate about every single scene. It's so unpredictable and the costuming and it's just so much detail and the humor to that writing. It's just, it's just an ounce of joy from beginning to, end the title cards between the scenes also yes yeah they're beautiful yeah just like paintings but moving they're moving yeah and they're on frame for only a few seconds but it's like wow so much dedication and work put into that and uh what's your interpretation of the the title poor things so i were trying to think about that like i wonder i haven't i haven't put that much thought into it i was thinking maybe

it was something to do with like um with the infantilization sort of angle is that is it sort of a joking jokingly referring to the women in the movie as poor things like the fop might or or is it like a double entendre with the the poor things being the women or maybe the you know they actually show the the poor people that one true um that a lot or you could say every character is a poor thing perhaps from certain perspectives I don't know. The point is it's very thought-reverking, and I haven't stopped thinking about it, and I can't wait to see it again.

No, not at all. It's incredible to have a movie for me where just so much of it is still in my brain after only having seen it once. And the soundtrack, like, I'm pretty sure I was in the right key for that when I was recreating. Like, that's a very unique and very memorable and striking. just everything about it. Yeah.

Can't wait to watch this again. Like it's a movie where like if anybody wanted to see it again and I was around somebody that, you know, I was able to see it twice or whatever within that week just socially I would have just done it in a heartbeat. Like, oh, hell yeah, I'd see this again in theaters right away. There's so many things in theaters that just feel like

kind of an obligation. Even things that some people say are like great that I'm just not as eager to like go out and check out. but this is something that I could definitely make time for again. Yeah. It just feels, it feels rare to,

I just love the comedy angle. I think that's so, so rare to get it at this kind of quality and this, with this much to say, this much of a backburn with this, just everything comes together, every technical element, just all of it.

It's pretty masterful for that. And it's probably my favorite film from him, to be honest. would probably also say that I think I got it because a lot of his films have a it's like an intentional sort of distance they have or like a

kind of coldness which like enhances something like the lobster or a killing of a sacred deer but it also does keep you a little bit of a distance but that I just love the tone here it yeah it definitely explores things more thoroughly

emotionally like on a human level yeah like not just to how the characters act, but also, like, story-wise. It digs a little deeper. Yeah, exactly. Very, yeah, incredible film. I gave it a nine, and I've talked about it, like, fucking twice, and now I'm like, okay, I've got to give it a 10.

What am I doing? It's my favorite of 2023. Got to do it. It was an easy 10 for me. Yeah, changed it. I've been seeing that. Everyone's like, everyone's bordering on, like, a 9 for this. When I look on letterbox, it's like, nah.

come on. You know in your heart of hearts. Yeah. Just do it. It's my only 10, I think, from 2023 so far. This is a once every few years at least type of great movie. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you got that novel.

You got the actors that believe in it. You got that director with the vision. Yeah. You got that score. Man. Yeah, this is what I'm looking for. This is exactly what I'm looking for. My editor is putting together a video that I already recorded.

So I'm just going to, since this audio is going to them also, I'll just put this right here. And I'm giving this one a, wait, I'll do that again. And I'm giving this one a 10 out of 10. Thank you. All right. Then you can put that in there. We can have them in both. I'm reusing audio.

I'm reusing content, guys. Smart. I'm getting lazy. no that's just that's smart right there never work hard work smart yeah incredible movie fucking can't wait to see it again it's great I want a 4K Blu-ray I will

you know sometimes I have a very funny thing in mind and I'm like I would make I would make like a threat or something that would be like elite I would get like I would get like I would get like investigated by the FBI or RCMP if I said these words out. But I'm like, yeah, I shouldn't say that joke. I can't say that joke. It doesn't make any sense. Sometimes I just, I want to say what just comes to mind is like a funny,

edgy thing, but then I can't. Cooler heads prevail. Yeah, it's not like the old internet anymore. Yeah. It's not like the old days. Not like I ever did that in the old days either, but. You just see it more. Yeah.

All right. There's a film that Alex recommended. There is a film. I thought it was about time we talked about Ken Loach, perhaps one of the more important British film directors of our time. He's kind of like the anti-Hollywood director. You know, I mentioned a, I can't remember what film we're talking about, I mentioned that in horror, it's one of the few places where audiences seem to be okay with miserable endings and things not working out in some way or another or arcs being completed or whatever.

There can be some kind of unsatisfying end or not even unsatisfying, just miserable end. But yeah, you can of course include Ken Loach in there too. This also reminds me a little bit of the Spider-verse episode we did a few months. back where we had a minimalist and a maximalist film in the same episode is quite contrast to poor things, where Ken Loach's kind of specialty is this naturalistic style, often using a lot of unknown actors with a focus on working class struggles and trying to highlight things that might not be in the public eye, like in the wind that shakes the barley, which is the 2006 film I recommended is based on the Irish War of Independence, a witch.

And the older I get, being British, the more I look back on my education. Oh, they get. Just a shameful, a shameful lens. Like, the stuff that I've learned as an adult about, yeah, the occupations in Africa, India, what we've done to the Irish. And like, as you grow up and you're like, why does Scots and the Welsh and the Irish, They're like, oh, hate us. Why does everybody hate British people?

And it's like, what are we? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, yeah, there's some pretty historical, generational conflicts going on here. And of course, yeah, that's the focus of the wind that shakes the burly. It's the, yeah, the British occupation and these guerrilla wars that happened. Specifically in this film is set in 1920. And the kind of pushback and the fight for independence led mostly focused around in this film The the killing of Murphy character and his brother being the main focus and the inevitable tragedy

That kind of comes with that Yeah, one of the things I love about Ken Loach is how He's definitely not for the crowd of people that keep keep your politics out my movies He's definitely not for that crowd It doesn't really get more political than this. Like he's a, he is a deeply political person. He's,

I know he's about the Labour Party anymore, but it goes beyond just like lip service to any sort of political thing. He's in the writing, it references policy, it references laws, depending on the film and what it's trying to tackle. It references zero-hour contracts, the gig economy,

all these different things. things that you can kind of do your own research and delve deeper into if you like and he'll often um I know he doesn't do the writing of itself but he often works with writers like Paul Laverty who wrote the script here yeah it's pretty much like all of their films I think like almost all of them is that combo yeah um but they tend to have at least one character who is more of a kind of a reference to a deeply political character that has these really strong opinions and will reference things like trade unions and this and that.

And I went on a bit of a Ken Lodge binge for this. Nice. I didn't just watch the wind that shakes the barley. I watched Kess from 1969. Sorry We Missed You from 2019. Good movie. And Riff Raff from 1991. Because I kind of wanted a broader understanding of him as a film of a director.

Have you seen I Daniel Blake? Yeah, I'd already seen you know, I Daniel Blake. And I think that's probably his most well-known and highest-rated film. And out of that bunch it was actually, sorry we missed you that I connected with the most. but I love them all. I thought they were all, all had qualities and all had similar stylings to them, but even going back to Kes, which I'd always heard about in the UK, it's quite an important film in the UK for its approach and how,

I don't know, he just gets very convincing good performances, not only just from unknown actors, but often from children as well. And that's kind of what stands out about Kess to me, because the main character is a very young boy. And he's excellent in it. Yeah, for a film from 69, it's like, wow. So there's no excuse for this being as bad as some of the examples you see. And unlike the other films I listed, the wind that shakes the Bali kind of stands out for not really being a contemporary setting in the same way.

And he's done a couple historical movies. I think he did one about the Spanish Civil War or something, which I haven't checked out yet. but he tends to explore, yeah, more contemporary, like riffraff from 91 that I mentioned. Robert Carlyle was like a builder in the 90s and it's talking about, yeah, the trade unions. Sorry, we missed you. Where it's talking about Amazon drivers and care workers and things like this, things that are still. They are lived experiences. Well, I guess not to say that this isn't still relevant.

You can't even say that. Well, yeah, you can't say. That's the thing, like the Irish. Not as much period pieces. is what I should say. Yeah, and I guess, yeah, the lived experience angle is that I'm not going to pretend like I know I'm not an expert on Irish history at all. And I found that element of it quite informative. I was going to ask you some questions, honestly.

Because I know. Oh, really? Well, you must know more than I do about. Perhaps, yeah, because there's, I mean, there are many different conflicts with the Irish that have. gone on for generations, the potato famine, the troubles, the war for independence here, all the stuff with the IRA. So I was actually going to ask you about, because I was, you know, the whole film is about independence.

And then I think of, okay, so there's the UK, which is what, England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, right? And that's the United Kingdom. And that has a single... Are we clune in the Channel Islands? I don't know. See, that's why I need your help.

What's the fuck are those? I lived on Jersey Island for a little bit. What the hell is Jersey Island? It's an island off of France, which is owned by the British, I guess. But so then that's just part of Britain? I lived there. I guess it technically is.

I think we still own like Gibraltar and random stuff like that. I was just going to say, so I looked up the current prime minister of Ireland, like Ireland has a prime minister, unless Google lied to me on the front page or something, Leo Varadkar. And then I looked at the prime minister of England,

Rishid Sunak, but that's also the prime minister of the UK. So is Ireland under, so does Ireland have two prime ministers then, as in one for Ireland and one for UK, which presides over Ireland? Or, like, how does that work? It's quite politically complicated because there's northern Ireland. and Southern Ireland. Yeah, and only half of it is owned by the Brits. What the fuck?

I guess that's what the... It's very confusing. Yeah, and I feel, I feel, yeah, I'm not confident in my knowledge in it, and I'd prefer an Irish person to chime in. Oh, sorry. Because I definitely do not know all the implicacies and details and sorry, intricacies of the complicated geopolitical generational conflicts that have been going on there. That's obviously what the film is exploring is this fight for independence.

So the fight for independence that they had in this movie, like, what's the current state of it? Are they like really independent? Not really? Well, that was kind of the conflict of the movie. It was that philosophical question of there is a peace treaty signed towards the end of the movie. towards the end of the movie. And then that's when the brothers kind of divide. And one of the brothers is like,

we need to give this a chance because I believe this is a way forward. And the other one thinks the killing Murphy character is, it's not enough. This is compromise freedom. We're still really under the, under the thumb of the British Empire. And there's a line in,

I love that scene where they're all debating. after the peace treaty is put out there and they're arguing in that room. It's really Ken Litch's strength, like these dialogue scenes, where they're arguing over different political concepts and exploring them there. But it's mentioned in that scene

that it would be naive to expect that level of freedom when at the time in the 1920s, India and Africa were still occupied by the Brits. And just really, I don't know, there's so much dialogue exploring these sides. And I feel like the kind of grayness and you can really see both sides of the brothers where they're coming from and why they're acting the way they are. And the tragedy that comes from that. And the ultimate commitment Killian has to his dedication to total independence.

And there's a real important moment with that character. where he executes someone who's known since he was a young boy for kind of ratting out him and some of the other freedom fighters. And yeah, he puts him down. And there's a very good tell-don't-show scene where he talks about going to the mother of the child he put down. Because most of them are like 17 to 19. They're all like young people. yeah, it goes to the mother and they silently walk to where they buried him for six hours. And then she says, you know, she never wants to see him again.

And it really emphasizes that kind of close-knit culture that they were all experiencing. And the line in the sand had to be crossed and like, you can't really go back from something like that. You know, you kill. Someone who knows since you're a child. And it's like, it's elevating things to a degree where he felt like, yeah, the peace treaty, it was, it's not enough for what he's sacrifice. and I thought they sold that very well. Yeah. Like they just immediately go back to training and there's like,

I thought the way it wrapped up with the whole the brothers and the execution stuff is so heartbreaking. The ending is great. Girlfriend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a typical, like, miserable Ken Loach ending, but it's the ending. The story needs to kind of put the full stop emphasis point on

the I guess the ultimate kind of toll that these empires have left in their wake, you know, and the misery that is caused. And how, yeah, the politics seeps into the personal and destroys families, destroys homes. Yeah. Very sad. I think that the way that this is written, in terms of like the the brutal sort of emotional moments that happen that carry obviously a lot of weight

they're sprinkled throughout the film and they're happening frequently enough to you know just give this overwhelming sense of I guess dread as you're watching it like you know they're escaping from the prison or whatever and you know just having that moment of the guy saying, I don't have the key to the cell and then just having to leave your mates like the three people in that cell. Like that's fucked.

That's like you don't want to think about that. And the escalation from that too. But then you also think, yeah, certainly there must have been some scenario like that. Like these things are based off of real life. So that adds an extra weight too. And that's what leads to that execution scene.

Exactly. Yeah. The people they left behind were all executes. And they're like, well, I guess I for an eye, because they kidnap that British character actor. Yeah. British stuff and put him down.

And the way that the guy getting executed kind of like accepts it too. And he understands that that's like what needs to be done. He's not even really like protesting against it that much. And the whole. No. We screams. Yeah, you'll never be free. What do we send to your mother? Like, I couldn't think of anything to say and she can't read anyway.

Yeah, yeah, that's brutal. That's depressing. It's sad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah the letter thing is very sad one of my

I think it has to be my favorite line is like right near the end of the film and just like perfect for writing and structuring it this way having this powerful of a line at the very end it's when he's about to get executed he says it's not too late Damien and he says from here for you

that's crazy that's like a yeah lovely very powerful way to wind it yeah for your last words essentially to just obviously you're going to be haunting that person's mind like you're and you know giving the audience something to really contemplate and think about in question yeah really really great writing there's a lot of great dialogue through that whole sequence well through the whole film to be honest but um it comes to a head especially when the

brothers are more combative with each other and his his brother's begging with him you know you should have you should have sons and daughters and teach them to be gentle and happy yeah and like he's like desperate and there's just something so tragic about it because yeah you can see where both sides are coming from yeah it's one of those movies where I'm watching it and I'm like fucking why why do why do people got to be in war you know it sounds so sappy I know and I don't want to be one of those guys like can't we all get along and I don't want to like pretend like there's some sort of fucking real solution to conflict right now because you know a lot of war is just

defending yourself from people trying to go to war with you but fucking it's depressing. It's like it's always just over fucking nothing. It's always over just something so meaningless and like power and control and like culture and fucking religion and it's, it's stressful and it's annoying that this is just like a part of humanity that exists. Yeah. Well, like Krogan's, yeah, we're just warmongering. Yeah. And it's important for media to show this. It's important for for films to tackle this and to be uncompromising about it and to be brutal about it in a way where you can go like, oh, there's some real consequences. to this and they're not good and this is probably why people shouldn't be doing this sort of thing.

Yeah. But especially when there's so much media that exists out there that is really fetishistic about war, right? How many war movies are like, ooh, war cool? War is cool and you're like, bam, bam, bam, you call the duty, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, that's probably social. Yeah, like, oh, isn't this epic and there's a big war, brer, bra, as if it's like a recruitment campaign video. Nah Yeah, act of valor

I think anti-war films are important Yeah, I agree But and The way he's able to avoid The sensationalism of it Is quite admirable too Because it does

It does feel like it's not trying to misrepresent Something it's kind of the inverse It's trying to Represent the facts They reference something like The Defense of the Realm Act Where a public meetings are banned That's how the kind of story

begins where they're just having a they're having an innocent hurling game before the British soldiers come in because of this defense of the realm act yeah and break it up and wind up killing a 17 year old boy by tying him up and just murdering him in a barn because he refuses to speak English and says his name in Gaelic so yeah it's like a good jumping off point to get that that story moving yeah and it happens pretty quickly I like the implied violence yeah very quickly I like the implied violence of Yeah, the implied violence. Much more effective to me than, because there's, in contrast,

it's maybe the only thing I didn't really love about the film. There's, there's like a big shootout at a certain point. And it's almost presented as like obligation. I don't know, that was the sense I was getting like, it's like, it's not what Ken Loach is interested in. He's not an action director. No, no, no, I know what you mean. I think that what was hurting those scenes the most was the,

sound design. I think that it was the like click and like gun click and like grenade click and like that felt a bit way to like movie-esque or video gamey and you know those sensational elements are kind of present there like I don't I'm not willing to say that that was like Ken Loach's choice because a lot of people were going to movie and someone's responsible for the sound design. I don't I don't know. Who knows? Who knows? Right. But yeah, I felt like that stood out in a negative way that wasn't really consistent with the rest of the film. Whereas other parts of the film that were very explicit didn't feel that way like the like Fingerdale pulling scene. I didn't find that to be like uncalled for or giving the wrong vibes. And what's interesting about that is I don't think there's any other Ken Loach film I've seen. scene where I've looked at like a practical effect or like a you know like a kind of a gore

effect even and been like wow that's a really well done effect yeah I thought I know that down too most of what he does is like the beginning where it's like you know you kind of imply it and leave the viewer to imagine it and honestly one of his his most recent film the old oak there's an example of that that I feel didn't work very well so I was kind of it was kind of like Patings yeah I saw you I saw um your rating about that I was gonna ask that because I love the idea of a film Going a comment going for the commentary on the dying pub culture here It's a little bit about that it's just so unfocused it's about like four different things and like there's no central character almost kind of Yeah, you'll you'll I'm sure you'll check it out at some point you'll understand why it's not as

Well received yeah I'm not gonna rush to see that one there are the ones I'll get to you first It's a misstep for sure. It's unfortunate to hear. It's got a bunch of stuff that I like about them in it, but it just doesn't come together as like a whole piece like a lot of his films do. And yeah, on the, well, it's on my mind, on the anti-Hollywood note, I won't say which film it is. Sure.

But you know that trope in just so many films, especially Hollywood films, where someone like falls off a cliff or something and then someone quickly grabs with one hand and they're hanging off there with them holding the entire weight of a human as they're hanging off with them type thing did that happen in rebel moon god i think it i think it actually did yeah anyway but something like that happens in one of these ken loach films like watched except it plays out how it would in reality oh great it sounds awesome that really stood out to me so it's like oh my god like that's how it should be yeah that's exactly how it would be and i love that about his style of filmmaking.

And that is, yeah, that's why that scene, that shootout scene did stand out to me in the, uh, when the shakes the bar. Cause it wasn't just like the sound was definitely, uh, standing out to me and sounding more, way more kind of like stock and like, just not that well integrated, but it was also the blocking. It was like, it seemed like obligation.

It's just clearly not what his interest is like, like the action side of it because everything else is excellent when It's talking about like the politics and the philosophy and the character dynamics and the human side that isn't the the shooty-shooty. Yeah, that scene did stand out to me and that was the only one of that nature. All the other stuff was realistic to me because everything else as far as the period piece nature with this coming out in 2006 and obviously mimicking the look of 1920. I loved all the costumes and the detail. to like the printing press they're using towards the end and yeah referencing all of this this accurate stuff and the vehicles they're driving around and all this all of those kind

of details to the Mises scene or whatever yeah we're very good it's it's simultaneously reserved but also really ambitious especially for an independent film yeah yeah I couldn't quite find the budget but it yeah it seemed to stand out compared to a lot of other works especially. I think it has to be under, I think there's like a rule for con. Like you can only be a part of official competition if it's under a certain amount. So you'd probably be able to figure out just based on what the requirements were for 2006, at least what it's like under.

But I don't remember. Okay, so I just said a quick tertiary Google and it reckons estimated around six and a half million pounds, which yeah is fairly low I suppose yeah sounds about right for what it is for what it's doing yeah yeah I would say that's that's actually quite a good use of a budget this film stood out to me at least from the ones that I've seen from

loach slash laverty as being one of the most scripted I guess out of the ones that I've seen however I still do appreciate that as with I think every one of their films that I've seen They love doing this thing where someone may or may not flub a line or maybe they stutter, but they keep going. And there's obviously a conversation with the actors beforehand.

Like, no, just keep going, finish the scene. We'll keep it in. And it works. It actually makes it feel more natural. Yeah. Yeah. It really feeds into the naturalistic time. It really does add to it.

And yeah, exactly what you were saying earlier with, you know, we're so used to seeing Hollywood films or films in general doing things one particular way like the cliff thing right exactly like that with dialogue Ken Louch is able to say no I'm going to do it this way and there's a reason why I'm doing it differently

and there's a benefit towards it I love choices like that that's the whole point of making choices in filmmaking right for me anyway yeah yeah there's uh I was really connecting with the Liam Cunningham character, who people might know from as Davos in Game of Thrones, a really, really good character there too. But he's like the trade unionist character, I think. He's the one who he has like a break, like you were just saying with the dialogue in that scene where they're talking about the peace treaty where he's giving his perspective and he does

like stutter. And yeah, well, that adds to the scene. It, it, It just feels, it just does, it does ground it. It makes it feel like, well, yeah, that's what happens when people aren't always perfect Hollywood smiles and it's all like controlled and produced. If you listen to how anyone talks in real life, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you just listen to anything, you'll notice a difference. Yeah, and I, yeah, I loved all the, all the political discussions and the, yeah, the Republican, army kind of arguments and yeah it feels like real people will still rule you with their landlords

capitalists and commercial institutions i think's one of his lines and it's like man this is so interesting to me this is so fascinating them trying to solve this because it really is uh an underdog story like it makes it immediately uh the stakes are extremely high with that that young boy being killed in the first like 15 minutes um this is life and death this is these are people's homes that are being talked about this is man it just really makes you feel for these people and their plight uh and yeah i just love all the economic angle and uh just the beef they have with these british soldiers there's a line i noted down where they're commenting about how much they're paid a pound a day out of our pockets to pay for that swagger or something yeah yeah

A pound, obviously, back then was a lot of money and a lot of them were unemployed. And the word swagger had something different too. Yeah, true. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and they referenced like, yeah, aside from referencing like Africa and India, they also referenced the Boa war. That was one thing I did learn about. Yeah, and they're like, yeah, so we can we expect what the Boa's got, can we?

And all these kinds of things. Yeah, I'm sure. There's a lot of shit that I missed. Just not. You know, anybody that doesn't know what, like, Union Jack means, wouldn't know what that line was referencing. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, there's a lot of history here.

There's a line that's like, you know, 700 years, I think, is the term that's, the number that's referenced. So there's a lot has happened here. And, yeah, I feel like I've only just scratched the surface. And there are other Loach films about, Irish tensions his film from the 90s hidden agenda is about the Irish troubles which is an extension of basically what was happening here with the IRA and I mean it it leads all the way to contemporary politics like that was a big drama

with Jeremy Corbyn his links the IRA and all sorts like it and and was it even away as well yeah yeah well Brexit there were all these like fuck-ups with the trade in island it just goes on and on and there's so much context and there's so much to read about and it's just nice for it to be kind of packaged in this way where yeah you can kind of it's like a good entry point a good way to get your foot in the door and stuff yeah it's kind of stuff it's it's very consumable and easy enough to understand for someone that isn't familiar with the political history at all. And it makes, you know, it's so well done that it makes me interested in learning more about it.

It makes you kind of want to seek, seek out and understand what what the hell all of the particulars were about like, you know, historical conflict. Yeah. There's just, yeah, there's just a little depth and it looks chilling. with his films, even with that minimal style. I like that they got the Catholic Church in there, because that is definitely something that I've heard about to Ireland. Yeah, that's very true.

It's a very clashing. Yeah. Yeah, and there's that comment from Killian. The Catholic Church sides with the rich, whatever. A bit of commentary in there with that. Yeah, just booing everybody out. Get out of here. Yeah, yeah.

Can't speak. Don't disrespect this holy space. There's so many good lines though. It's not the will of the people, but the fear of the people. That's another fantastic line. Things to think about.

Things to think. It's very quotable. It's a very quotable film. And it's not a film that a lot of people know about at this point. Like, it was successful for the time, but like, I remember you recommended this. Everybody, the poster on the subreddit

on mine and on the podcast subreddit, people are like, what's this movie? What? Oh, really interesting. Yeah, I'd always been kind of intrigued. watch this one. I'd always like... Yeah, it's been aware of it.

Yeah. But yeah, I don't know if people are put off by the period piece nature or just, people just don't know, you know, if the history and the education is like hiding these kind of stories, I don't know if... I partially recommend it because of the Killiam Murphy, uh, Oppenheimer thing that maybe people would... Oh, it's Oppenheimer. Let's go back and see where else Oppenheimer's done.

It's Op. Dog club. Yeah, I just like in Loach films, they're just the way they use characters to represent perspectives and something we've been bringing up a lot. But having them still feel like characters. Feel like real people. But yeah, they feel like people. They actually more than a lot of films, actually. You could bump into someone from a Loach movie on the street.

That's how they feel. And yeah, it just sells the conflict so much, so much greater. And especially, I feel like everyone's going to have a different Loach film that they would connect to based on, like, your lived experience. Because that's what was really getting me about, sorry, we missed you and the tragic nature of that. Like having, like, carers in my family and stuff, it just, it just hits a little bit differently, like, seeing these underrepresented issues, like, getting some. Yeah, getting some proper screen time and getting explored and like... Yeah, and criticizing it in like a biting truthful way. And it's so, yeah, this we need to be talking about some of these issues.

And I think, yeah, I think this deeply political, uh, minimal style that is very effective at communicating these ideas and especially shining a lens on more like working class. struggles that are ignored. You know, he loves these minors and unionists and the cast is all about like the, the abuse of kids in school, like in the 60s now, like oppressive and horrifying. It was. Yeah, yeah.

It's always so grounded. Like it doesn't need to be sensationalist or like super over dramatized or anything. Exactly. You don't need that to tell an impactful story and to present. it in a in a relatable way I could watch most of his movies

that I've seen so far without needing subtitles but Cass you 100% need it it's like the thickest Yorkshire accent I've ever heard I was like

oh my God because it was also like all these phrases and like things from the 60s as well so it's like man I don't like I don't even know

what you're saying half the time like all these crazy phrases and things I definitely needed it for for this one and I like all of his movies honestly I was so happy the old

Oak I watched a screener copy because I had COVID during VIF and they gave me a screener coffee I was so happy there were English subtitles I was so happy because I wasn't sure if I was going to get that saved yeah

because that's a real like it's a real British thing it's very accentuated here the class division And so the nature of having this focus on a lot of working class people. It's a thing in this country that people like, you know, they disrespect like or they associate northern accents, for example, with like lower class or it's somehow beneath someone who's like from London or whatever. And it manifests in ways that a lot of people I don't think even are aware of in the subconscious and this deeply baked in class structure. have here that is so so blatant once you start seeing it and yeah being honest with yourself it's

it's quite upsetting um just the the way we divide ourselves and we're on a tiny island too yeah every half an hour it's like a different a different uh accent that's a crazy way to think about it too yeah so it's like man why we why are we divide in over these things when we're just arguing over the wrong things. Like, why are we disrespecting each other over like accents and where we're from when... Yeah. Such is the story of humans. Such as the story of life.

Yeah. People are arguing over money. Yeah. Yeah. I just love that he's found a way to give that voice. Yes. Give that perspective of voice in cinema. And in a very...

outside of things like yeah in a unique way because it is different like this is England or something like this yeah well there's a lot of people that try to tell stories like this but they just wind up regurgitating the same sort of thing yeah they can't find the right angle you know like there's a very particular kind of sundance movie that you know tries to be Wendy and Lucy sort of thing right yeah exactly where just where it all just kind of starts molding into the same blob. But, yeah, Ken Loach, very watchable voice, and I'm always interested in whichever film he comes out with next.

Yeah, I thought that this, I guess I'll just have some mild criticisms about this. I thought maybe in like the first half of the movie, I was like trying to like find, more of a focus or maybe there was just like too many characters but it really came together in the second half for me and it just like absolutely flew by and then some of the music choices a little bit near the beginning felt a bit weird and then there's like there's a the part where he's trying to convince them not to shoot the guy on the floor and i forget his name

That's the Game of Thrones fella Yeah There was some weird Music and editing Happening there It was kind of Quite chaotic yeah Yeah

That I'm not sure jelled with me But just very very minor criticisms very super super Yeah I do agree with that But it was the I thought Killian's performance That it was very powerful

Oh yeah He's great throughout Just throughout the whole film to be honest, yeah. Future Oscar winner. Yeah, he's, yeah, he's a great central character to kind of base everything around

and get the perspectives of. Yeah, he's got an interesting career. It's crazy that this was after 28 days later too. Yeah, it was after 28 days, and then what was like, Batman after this? Sunshine. And then Batman. Oh, Sunshine, of course, yeah, I need to revisit that at some point.

but yeah i loved that dynamic with the brothers i loved when his i guess you can call it his girlfriend gets in the mix and the tragic end to that there and her performance when and the brother's performance when he comes to with the letter and she just starts hitting him and great so yeah very powerful stuff yeah um loads of fantastic scenes all the performances are great incredible ending great writing couldn't ask for much more except Maybe, I don't know, I felt like I could have used some wider angles at points. But, you know, just minor criticisms. They just, the way they write these scenes where like, just receiving a message,

like an important message becomes this whole, like, sequence of, it's this little boy. And he's like, oh, I can't find this really important message. And they're like trying to get out, like, tease it out of him. But what was it? What was it? While the other ones are looking like, where did you come from? and they're just looking for this message. It's just like a realistic human way

of delivering exposition, basically. So, yeah, this is clever, this is real. It's always an interesting angle that is being taken here. Yeah, just love that minimal style. I'm giving this one, an 8 out of 10. It was setting at like a high 7th throughout, and then that ending was bumped it up. It's definitely something that linger.

Yeah, I found it fairly consistent throughout. I did have the questions at the midpoint, as you did, like, where's this going? But I feel like it does fully explore it and wrap up nicely. Yeah, Loach is kind of like, he's like the inverse Edgar Wright in a way. He's completely maximalistic. He loves genre filmmaking and he loves a lot of these tropes and whatnot. And there is a time and space for that, but there's also a time for this too. Yeah, I feel like this would be a good second watch movie.

Yeah, yeah, I'd happily watch this again. Yeah, strong, strong out of time for me in four-star. Damn! And I thought you would rate it a one, because you're British. Yeah, down with the Irish movie. Keep the war going. Some say it's still going today. Oh yeah, very much is.

Right, you're ready for some questiones? Gotta be. Right, let's head over to the Sardonica subreddit and pluck a few questions from the question thread over there. Just like Shandor left asking us this. Is there any media your parents barred you from? Watching growing up. Growing up, I wasn't allowed to watch adult swim.

I knew some kids whose parents didn't let them watch. SpongeBob. That's unfortunate. My parents were weirder about video games for some reason than forms. They were fine introducing me to like

Terminator and Robocop like alien and shit like that. But my mom like caught me playing Bioshock 1 that I'd like borrowed from a friend. And you know early on you've got the you got like a metal tool in your hand

that you're like beating people to death with or something. But yeah, she like saw me beating a splice it to death with a metal pole and just like, what is this? It's kind of tough. This is horrible. Which is weird about like GTA and stuff like that as well because I don't know. It's parents of that generation. They just hear, I guess they hear like a new story of Grand Theft or two.

That sounds horrible. And then you find out fucking 20 years later they were doing fucking mushroom. and all this shit. Like, they were just so... And they didn't even test their drugs. They just did anything. Someone would just fucking, like, give them something in the best of old baby like,

what's this? I don't know. And then just go on a fucking better... Every single one of the baby boomers are fucking drunk drivers. Okay? Ask your parents about that shit. See if they'll be honest about that. Come on.

Yeah. And then they just hyper fixate over, like, restricting their kids from, like, everything. Like, no weed, no... And so they, like, overcompensate in this other direction and go super Christian and shit. Yeah.

Sorry. Yeah, exactly. It's a very common story. It's happened to a lot of people. Yeah, my parents were, my parents also showed me Terminator, but were weird about, like, they would always fast forward through sex scenes, which probably fucked me out. Right. And gave me, like, so weird.

That's funny, because I think that might be a little bit of a cultural thing. I know. That was never an issue. Like, like, sex was just in like quite a lot. of stuff growing up. There was a VHS in my house and they pointed it out and said, don't you, don't you ever play this movie? And I didn't because I'm not a, it wasn't as much of a rebel. It was the Rocky Horror Picture Show. It was just the picture of the lips there. And I'm just like, why did you even own this if you like, why is this in that house? Do you watch it? I don't even

know. Like, why is that there? I'll have to ask them about that Oh, that's hilarious Yeah, that's really fun Because I've never heard them talk about that movie It doesn't seem like the type of movie That they would even enjoy So I don't know what the fuck that was about

Yeah, the sex one is funny But I just remember the black background And just the lips And I just like assumed it was like a horror movie or something Mm-hmm But yeah, because I've normally heard that about Americans especially Yeah

where they're fine with the violence, but as soon as anything sexual, it's all very, we import a lot of our culture from America. Whereas, yeah, yeah, of course, whereas, I don't know, some different attitudes in Europe

towards some of these things. We're Americans that call ourselves not as bad as Americans is what we are. But culturally, we steal all that. Yeah, but I mean, considering how, like, oppressive a lot of parents are,

mine were fine, those are only the real. Yeah. I remember like a little bit weird, of like uh south park because of it's these things that with reputations that precede preceded them but like if if my parents had ever done that to me like this is the one you cannot watch i would have watched that the next day i would have snuck it yeah like tell me not to do it and i'm gonna want to do it so much more i'm sure my brother did i'd be yeah i'd be so much more curious

from that's like well why what do you not want me to see that i was a good kid i was a i was a good little child i thought it Yeah, it wasn't with stuff like that. Yeah, they were, they wouldn't let me watch the Simpsons, which is like so tame by today's standards. Oh, yeah. But when the Simpsons came out,

it was considered edgy. When the Simpsons came out, it was fucking crazy to have a kid say the word damn on TV. Yeah, it made me do my damn, like for a kid to say, Eymour shorts, like that was fucking,

that was unheard of. Yeah, he was edgy. Yeah, he was edgy. Season one of the Simpsons. was edgy for the time and that now it's just like so fucking tame but what I would do I I did rebel because I loved the Simpsons and I found it hilarious so I would just that they would have their TV on in their bedroom and watch the Simpsons when they thought I gone to bed and they would have the door open a crack and I would watch it through the crack in

the door and just like silently on the other side of the door be like watching the Simpsons Wait, so they'd still watch it They would still watch it, yeah I just wasn't allowed to watch it Oh, that's funny It was a weird like, oh kids can't see this sort of thing I wasn't allowed to watch Power Rangers when I was a kid

Because it was violent And they thought There was this whole I was banned from that actually It was illegal in New Zealand Yeah Yeah, there was this whole like If the kids see

The people punching They're gonna hit other kids Which I mean might be true I'm not even That's probably Yeah I think it was one of the things where there were a few stories of it and then it like spread

to all the like paranoid parents kind of like GTA and South Park and stuff like that yeah just read the Bible instead there's violence in that they'll have kids do it if you read the Bible

to them they'll be doing incest instead they'll be doing incest instead they're worse yeah genocides yeah they were weird about video games but it wasn't ever a content thing

with the video games it was like if you so we didn't even have a console so I would have had an N64 but I had to go to my friend's house and play it so by the time that we were even allowed

video games my brother and I saved up to buy ourselves an Xbox so when the Xbox original came out that was our first console and we saved up and bought it and yeah by that point I was like

what, 13 or something? So, like, the content thing wasn't as much of an issue, I guess. I was watching a shit ton of horror movies at 13, but I guess my mom just gave up on trying to tell me no. She just, she would, like, come down, just, like, look at all the titles that I rented. She's like, you're going to turn into a serial killer or something. Like, just, like, just insult me, basically, and walk away and not even try anymore.

Oh, that's hilarious. Yeah, it's funny how inconsistent it can be with the limiting what the kids, the kids. It is a joke in The Simpsons, isn't it? What does she always say? Think of the kid. Think of the children. Yeah, nurse love joy. Posturing to that.

Yeah, that's right. There was, you reminded me of South Park. My parents would not let me watch South Park. But one day, my grandma, my dad's mom, she was. looking after me and I don't remember what age I was. I must have been like 12 or younger. And we went to the video store and she was like, oh, you can pick out a movie. I'm like, okay.

So I just like picked out a South Park VHS at like three episodes on it. She didn't even, she didn't question it. She just assumed like, oh, I guess he's allowed to watch this sort of thing. And then we brought it back. And I watched it with her. And it was the episode where Butters learns. had to masturbate and there's like

I don't remember there's definitely like he goes to the bathroom and then like there's you hear audio and then like I'm pretty sure they like show white stuff at some point he's like what's this white stuff and blah blah blah and that's happening the time she was laughing

my grandma was fucking laughing oh she loved it yeah she liked that which is funny because all I hear from my dad growing up is like the same type of shit that my parents did to me it's like there's no way I feel like if if it was like my dad, like, with him being younger, there's no way she would be like, letting him watch

that and laughing at it. But grandma, grandparents always love to like spoil and, you know, like kids get away. I was like, not my kid. They'll be my friend. So that was funny. Well, seeing as you mentioned that, actually, dabsloth 710 said thoughts on grandparents. Has any of your grandparents ever given you a movie recommendation? My grandmother, when I was a child, introduced me to the actor Jim Carrey and his films because she loves his style of humor and how wacky he can be at times my uh I've only got my my I've got one nan and one granddad left um my other side were uh gone uh when I was born pretty much so I never had a relationship with them but my my granddad one of his special interest is basically war movies um

so that's one of the few things I can talk to him about specifically like World War II movies my nan like doesn't really care about movies at all I remember speaking of Lanthimos having a funny conversation with her because she hated the favorite for some reason she went to see the favorite with some friends or something

she's like a history buff she was a history teacher for a long time and then it turned out to be a lesbian movie yeah yeah yeah and like not historically accurate at all and that was like her big contention it just didn't happen this way and I was like trying

to explain it but like she just didn't get it she just didn't I knew there must have been a person that had that experience and not know what they were getting into that's great that just makes it funny as I mean yeah um

relatively good relationships with my grandparents uh they're not around anymore but I didn't really have any like movie uh related experiences with them other than that South Park thing I told you about which was hilarious yeah that is a funny one yeah um well

george foober has this to say i recently watched saltburn with my girlfriend though I enjoyed parts of it to me it came across as try hard on the nose and sort of self-absorbed when i brought this up to my girlfriend she asked me why I didn't feel that way about the curse which is a show I'm honestly loving for how weird and different the vibe I'm not sure why something like saltburn, which tried super hard to have interesting shots, intentionally weird lighting, and overall very overt cinematography, feels try hard to me, while something like The Curse, which also focuses heavily on weird blocking, interesting shot compositions and audio,

and overall just being different, really does click with me. How do you guys make the distinction between a film or show trying too hard to be unique or cinematic and just coming across as try hard, versus this one that tries hard to be unique but does it well, without feeling self-absorbed love you sards interesting well i haven't seen either of those things yet i was waiting for the curse to be finished for me to start watching it so i guess i'll do a watch along for that this month yeah i'm looking forward to checking out the curse out uh fuck somebody told me the episodes are like an hour long and there's like 10 of them so i really shot myself in the oh really but whatever i'll just binge him in one day maybe yeah yeah and

And I haven't seen Saltburn, but I felt that way about her previous movie that people loved. Yeah. So I can kind of get what people mean. And I guess saltburn is this year's the menu to me, where it's like the kind of a bit weird movie that is, which goes viral on TikTok, I guess. That's all it really takes. For a demographic that's never seen a weird movie before? Yeah, basically, yeah. It's like everyone's, it's their first weird movie, and it's like striking them a certain way because of that.

And man, yeah, I won't delve into Saltburn, but I agree more this gentleman here wrote in. But I feel like it's difficult when, I don't know, it's a weird criticism to say you're trying too hard, I feel like. But I get what they mean. I feel like I, you know, I find myself saying. that when it feels like it's trying to be something else. Because it can try hard and be its own thing and then it usually winds up working. But when it tries hard and it's like, okay,

the word try implies that you can see what it was going for, but it didn't quite get there, right? Versus just doing it. Yeah. That's more like where I stand on saltburn. It's like, man, I actually quite like the production and the weirdness of the color palette and the lighting and stuff. I just wish it was in service of better writing.

That's my problem. I kind of boil it down more into that. That can do it. Yeah. Yeah, which was a little bit of a similar problem to her previous movie too. But I'll leave it at that. Yeah. You know, I've often said I like things that are weird with a purpose,

not weird without a purpose. Not saying that I inherently. like dislike things that are weird that might not have an explicit or immediately recognizable purpose. But there's a big difference to me between, you know, a movie like a Quentin DePue film who just literally all of his movies are just, oh, I'm being weird for the sake of being weird and that's it. Like rubber was his only like digestible movie. There's a huge difference between that versus like, I don't know, poor things, right? where I'm like, oh, the soundtrack is weird. The visuals are weird, but it's in service of something, and it's cohesive, and it sits like a puzzle piece, right?

Yeah. There's a big difference between holy motors and the holy mountain would be two films that I feel like are kind of going for the same thing. You know, being metaphorical and like visually striking, but I'm just not, I'm just, I don't know if I, I don't know if I believe what Leo Krakz or whatever his name is is saying. I don't know if it feel like in interviews I can hear him talk about what inspired the film. That sounds genuine, but I don't see it in the film. I don't believe it in the film. There's so much about that director I don't like.

Anyway, yeah, hope this helps. Thank you for listening to my TED Talk. Should we do one more here? One more. Let's end on this one then from It's Slider 19. Hey, gay boy and English boy. Has a film ever disturbed you so deeply that it actually ruined your day or even led to an episode of depression? In addition, what genres or kinds of movies do you seek out when you're depressed?

What are films you'd recommend to someone who is depressed? Asking for me, I mean, a friend. I think you already know. I think you're already. I'm big fan of your channels and a frequent listener of the podcast. First, thanks for the entertainment you give me over the past years. I think you too and Ralph may Jebus rest his presence on the cast in peace, have some of the most nuanced and thoughtful perspectives and conversations on him, on film.

I always admire your opinions as they exemplify a true appreciation for the many separate and unique elements of film. That comment had multiple endings. Alex, I think you, thank you for the comment, by the way. Alex, I think you already know what movie I'm going to say, right? I think I've said it a bunch No normally when you say that I just assume it's going to be synchicate you No I don't I don't that was never a day ruiner movie

That was never Deer Zachary Is what I bring up Of course yeah yeah of course Of course That's a depressing movie I remember having quite a Disturb reactions at film

Noturnal Animals That like really Oh yeah That was a great one Yeah, that really got under my skin and upset me in a way that made it memorable. But if you're in a low mood, do you like seek out low movies? I don't tend to do that, I don't think. You know, here's an interesting perspective.

A movie that many people could consider to be a low movie, if it connects with you in a particular way that makes you feel less alone, can be a movie that isn't a low movie. I don't consider Synecdicue, New York, to be really that depressing of a movie. I feel like the connection that I get from it is actually a positive feeling, knowing that, you know, you can see someone else who, at least from your own interpretation, has experienced similar thoughts and similar struggles, and there's like a connection and kinship there.

And that's just something that is valuable. and important about art and why I feel like it's important for artists to be true to themselves and not pretend to be something else and be uncompromisingly brutal about what they're making is to find that connection. So I understand, I understand like sad things and sad moods. I understand like the fucking, you know, like how many, think about like genres of music. Think about the types of things that people seek out in that regard. You know, there's a lot of people that are depressed that seek out depressing music

because it makes them feel more connected and less alone. That's true, actually. I do associate that phenomenon much more with music. Like, if I want to feel sad, just put on low roar or something as my current one. The same thing, the same thing exists with film. The same, it exists with any art form. It exists with, you know, you could, seek that out in like a conversation.

You could seek that out in like a story of just, you know, someone's life story, right? How much of yourself is going into the art? I think what comes to mind for me is, I think part of the reason I loved everything everywhere so much was because it was, it just hit the perfect time. It was like around COVID and all of this like just awful stuff

like in my life had been happening like in a row. And it was like just the right message like packaged and just in the perfect way, like the message I needed to hear at the time. Which movie? Everything, everything at once. Yeah, so that's like a more recent one that I feel like can lift your spirits if it's,

if you're in a slump perhaps. But I don't know, that's also part of, I don't know, I don't seek out the more desperate or depressing films when I'm in that mindset. because it's part of what I like about art is that it is able to kind of bring me to whatever the mood of the piece is trying to do if it's good enough.

And yeah, I will I'll use music more for that. Yeah, it depends on the movie. Depends on how closely I connect to it. I'm not going to, if I'm feeling sad, I'm not going to put on Dear Zachary. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I don't feel tempted to do that.

I think that is a profundity. a word, I think it might be. The profundity of an art piece can help even if the tone of what it's going for is like depressing, right? Because there's a lot, there's, you know, Synecichy in New York is a great example. It might be depressing, but there's there's truths in it. And there's truths that are very personal. Yeah.

Yeah. He was going to add something, but I forgot. It's getting late here. It's nearly midnight. It's getting late in my brain. My brain's fighting. We're in the same boat here. It's the late brain.

Yeah. Anybody wondering, I got back on a flight like an hour before we started recording today. I slept on the plane a little. Yeah, so considering that, I think you've got a pretty nice episode out of there. End it. Finish it. Unbelievable. from evil.

We got a recommendation for the next episode from a surprise guest, a super secret surprised guest. Oh. A guest. Who could it be? What they recommend? Waterworld.

Yeah, Waterworld. Yeah. Kevin Kossner, baby. Never seen it. Have you seen it? A long time ago. A very long time ago. I remember nothing.

basically. I feel like it would be a fun thing to check out. Yeah, we're going forward to. Apparently a 4K is recently come out or something. You can get on that. You have a physical media collection

up. Mm-hmm. We could do a Waterworld Avatar 2 double feature. The Water episode. I'm not being serious. I never want to watch that

in a fucking movie again. It was so boring. All right, if you don't want to be spoiled. For Waterworld, 1995, Kevin Costner, directed by another Kevin, Kevin Reynolds, and watch it before the next episode comes out. These episodes come out every two weeks.

However, you can listen to them early and support the show by going to patreon.com slash sardonicast or sardonicast.com and sign up for premium. They're both the same thing. Whichever platform you prefer, it's $2 a month. That's nothing. it's absolutely nothing help us have you noticed how I've started doing ads on my main channel stop being a fucking freeloader

okay get in here help us out give Alex and I a dollar each per month for the content that we're making please please you're begging like the characters in the fucking film we watch yeah

whatever fuck it pirate or shit I don't care I'll be homeless who cares I love it we got

we got merch somewhere we got Sardana cast Highlights channel on YouTube check it out yeah I'm tired so

glad we started with Rebel Moon and not having that be the third thing we talk about that would have been a disaster true yeah Jesus my energy definitely picked back up talking about poor things poor thing yeah yeah it's putting you to sleep like the fucking film and I get my last thing to say on that like there was one quote from that film but I noted down I don't even remember the context there's a

line in the film though come on mama let him come and play that's a line in the film I think that was the Irish guy actually This is funny. Yeah, I don't remember. There's some good, good lines. All right, thanks everybody for listening. Bye-bye. Have a happy water world being.