Sardonicast - Sardonicast #16: The Dark Knight Rises, Jacob’s Ladder

Episode Date: September 12, 2018

Timestamps: The End of Ralphthemoviemaker - 00:00 The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS) - 17:00 Jacobs Ladder (SPOILERS) - 53:43 Q&A - 1:16:06 Adum's Recommendation for next episode is Mary and Max (2009)

three two one yep that's me you're probably wondering how i got into this situation well it all started when we started a podcast called sardonic cast hey everybody we're sardonic cast that was awesome thank you good job i'm i'm adam from your movie sucks okay ralph i'm a i'm alex from uh i hear everything I'm Ralph, YouTube.com slash Ralph. Oh, wait. Oh, wait. I think we should change the name to rip the movie maker. Oh, nice one. Nice. Ralph's dying. Yeah, I have cancer, so I'm ending my YouTube channel.

Jesus Christ. It's good because, I mean, you gave a lot of other people cancer, too, so I mean, now... Yeah. At least I got to spread the love. So why's that? Why's what? Catch people up if they don't know for some reason. Well, I'm not ending the channel. I'm just not going to do the Ralph the Movie Maker videos anymore.

Because... The series. I mean, the series, yes. The most iconic thing. There's a... Well, my British friend, there's a lot of reasons. I don't know. I don't enjoy doing it anymore.

That's the first thing. I don't think it's... Okay. It's not as fruitful. Like, I used to fucking love doing them. And now they're fun. But it's like... There's only so many ways I could make an episode.

And I'm just like, I feel like I want to do something else, you know? I want to do. That's fine. Yeah, I want to put my creative energies toward doing something else. Yeah. And I think what I have planned is going to be fucking great. I hope it is. And I'm working on it right now.

I know exactly how you feel. Except what I've done is instead of stopping projects, I just keep adding to the pile. Yeah. And so, like, thankfully, I've found ways for, like, the, a lot of the content on my main channel to now be done quicker so that I can fit more things into my schedule. So, like, the quickies don't take nearly as much time now that I have another editor working for me.

Yeah. But, yeah, I know exactly how you feel, but I have not given up on any of my projects yet. And I still do enjoy creating, like. the longer YMS reviews. They are kind of a pain at the same time, but I do like making them. Oh, yeah. I get what you're saying. It's just I'm at a point in my life now where I went to college for a year and I had to make money to support myself. So I did YouTube and I made, you know, a decent amount of money from it. But now I've taken a semester off because I have tons of credits and I'm going to L.A. in the spring for some for like school. And I just have

this free time where I don't really have to make money and I just I can just do whatever I want and I want to take that free time in my life to do something you know more ambitious and you know I can always go back to Ralph the movie maker if I want maybe do like who says two years from now I want to do another one because there's a movie that's so bad but I don't want it to be this thing where I'm doing it every month now because it's just it's exhausting and YouTube clearly doesn't like me they they keep demonetizing all my videos they keep copyright claiming all of them the studios do anyway yeah again no support from them it's like why do i have to put up with this one i don't have to at this moment you know and i have the podcast i have you guys which is fun

doing this and i hope putting i'm going to put more you know time into doing this because we have some stuff planned yeah we have some stuff up our sleeve yeah regarding this podcast up my sleeves up my sleeves, up my sleeves, up my sleeves. Anybody listen to death grips? Yes. Okay. Yeah. All right.

Guillotine! That's the popular one. Uh-huh. That's the normal one. That's the only one I know. I guess I do kind of want to turn this into like a larger discussion because I remember, I don't remember if it was on Twitter or not. I think Alex, you said, so I think you actually, there was like an

interview that you gave where you were talking about like YouTuber fatigue and yeah I feel like I've spoken about it loads of times yeah the need to to kind of like take breaks from what you're doing and you know it's especially if you know your heart's just not in it like to try and force yourself to to do something that you're no longer passionate about that that that you once were that I hate like complaining about it because I feel so sort of privileged and like lucky to be able to do like I'm able to do. But what not everyone understands is that there's a ridiculous amount of work that goes into making videos, you know, the amount of research and writing and editing. And a lot of the time it's just one person. Like Adam's recently hired like some editors,

but a lot of YouTubers, there's just one person. There's a huge amount of work. Yeah. I think you're not complaining about how hard YouTube is. You're complaining that this is a creative process where you need to be passionate about what you're making if you want to make something good and if I'm not passionate about it the quality of the videos are going to suffer so would I rather take my time and do something else that is going to be even more entertaining or just make inferior content you know and I just feel like I could do something else right now and it would be better yeah see I am I have I have similar thoughts I guess like I haven't um I've always kind of felt that what I'm doing, despite it obviously being my choice and despite it being something that I'm still passionate about, I've always considered it to be work.

And I've always been a very kind of like workaholic kind of person. So even if I have to like force myself in certain situations, like the most of a hindrance, I guess, that will happen in terms of my creative process will be kind of writer's block. I find the most difficult part about making a video is right before I've recorded anything so like I've got the video concept I've looked through all the footage and I've taken notes but like before I say that first

word into a microphone like I need to know which direction I'm going with with the project and I feel like that's the part where I can really get stuck but if I do get stuck and I'm like okay well I can't you know I'm not being

productive right now, then I'll move on to another project. They'll be like, okay, there's movies I got to watch for my whatever list or like I could work on my music right now or there's some stuff that my editor sent me that I have to look over. Like there's always something that I can do to fill in my time. Yeah. Yeah. I have that too where you just have videos on hold for months. Oh yeah, I'm never bored. That's a plus. You know, there's always something I could be working on. I've thought about the possibility of like, okay, what am I what am I doing in terms of like my long term goal? and like music is something that I really am super passionate about and that I love doing and, you know, I think people will get a clearer idea of that once my album's actually out next year. But I have this fear of ever letting go of this main channel, you know, like I don't know if I ever could quit my Patreon. I don't know if I ever could stop making videos in that sense. It's like, because it's a safety net for me. It's like a lifeline. Like, it's the entire reason why I'm able to do these other projects in the first place. And so I have this like apprehension towards even the thought of it, which is partially why I've layered on and piled on so many projects at once.

It's because the idea of cutting back is a huge thing to consider in a huge leap to be able to even make if I were to make it, which I'm not confident that I would. Mm-hmm. It's a hard thing. I mean, I had a hard time just coming to terms with just ending it, you know, ending the series. Mm-hmm. I enjoyed doing it, and I loved getting recognized on the street. I love having people Photoshop me in front of fucking, like, stupid shit, or Photoshop my face on a dwarves or whatever. But it's, you know, I have to move on. I have to do something else. And I'm young, right? So I can afford to do these things and try different things. Yeah. Again, I could always want to come back and do a Ralph the Movie Maker review here and there, do something else. I'll still be making, like, film-related content on Ralph the Movie Maker,

because I love talking about movies I like. Like that Ralph Recommend series, I want to do some stuff with that, talk about movies I like. But I think what I have in the can is going to be better. Yeah. I hope. I hope. I think as long as you make quality stuff, I think people will stick. around. I feel like at the very worst case scenario, like if let's say I did depart from from doing my

film review focus material or from focusing on my film review material on YouTube, let's say I wanted to do music full time instead, I think I would still be able to just like sit down in front of a microphone and talk about a movie and send it off to an editor or something. Because like, yeah, right. I'm not doing my film review channel because it's something that I thought like, oh yeah, I want to do this for work. I'm doing it because I talk about movies anyway. Like this is stuff that I'm already passionate about. Yeah. You just put a microphone in front of yourself.

I'm not just going to film festivals because it's part of my job. It's because I want to go to them and I love movies and I love talking about them. And I would always want to share and express my opinion on them. So it's, you know, I don't know how I could. stop doing that realistically. Even if I abandoned like the concept of spending months at a time working on a single project just to tear something to shreds, you know, even if I abandon that format, I could never stop expressing myself about this, this art form that I love. And that's more of what this is for me. It's like a format change kind of more than me ending, you know, I'm never

talking about movies again. Like I'm not doing that. It's better to do on your own side. as well though yeah like instead of burning out and resenting it Ralph the movie maker is now a fortnight channel That's right. I'm gonna play fortnight. I'm gonna play Minecraft Ralph the gamer The thing with Patreon I ended my Patreon as well because the that's another whole other pressure is that you have to make content for these people who are literally giving you money very bold Yeah and I can't like I don't want to do that anymore. I don't want to feel obliged to have to make something incredible every month for people who are giving me money.

I don't want that pressure right now. I'm going to work on something great. It's like this episodic thing I have. And once that comes out, there will be ways to support me financially, sure. But right now, I don't want anyone supporting me financially. I want to do something. What about if people wanted to support you financially for the type of new content that you were making, but it wasn't necessarily a huge half to make one.

every month thing, but you're just creating consistent content. Or are you, like, when you say you're departing from your Ralph the Movie Maker series and you're doing other projects, are you doing other projects that are YouTube related? I mean, like... Yes, this, this... Well, I have the Ralph Recommends thing going on, Ralph the Movie Maker. But then I'm also making a scripted series. I think it's going to be six episodes right now.

We have written out six episodes. And then I'm thinking we're going to release them. And we kind of do what we did with Sardana cast, where if you want to see it early, you pay or you support me however however much money you want to give me because my guess is YouTube ad revenue is not going to be enough to support this this six episode thing I have planned but I mean we'll we'll burn that bridge when again when we get to it right now I just want to focus on making six yeah burn it um I just want to focus on making six fucking great pieces of content and then yeah I'll worry about that stuff after

so I hope it all goes well for you thank you I hope everything goes well for you too Adam and your your album oh thank you I'd like I'd like to play you a song oh yeah yeah with your recorder right now no but but yes yes right now I was I was waiting for you to pick up the recorder no I got something else okay everyone salute Fuck! I haven't played in a very long time. That was emotional. Yeah, that was.

Oh, let's do again. Okay, we're good. I picture Adam with like a Canadian flag behind him. Just waving in the wind. The trumpet's one of those instruments where if you don't practice all the time, you lose the muscle in your lips. And it just becomes impossible to sound good if you haven't picked it up. in a while but I felt I felt like your channel deserved a proper send-off so I'm glad thank you I appreciate it thank you no problem anyone else have anything else to say

about YouTube fatigue or that crap take breaks everybody like people who work like regular jobs they go all day they don't work on weekends you know man and one of those people that like, I found a way to make pretty much every single thing that I'm doing in my life as part of my work. And so it's like, I don't know. I literally, for the first two years of my channel, I literally just didn't play games. Like doing it full time, I just didn't play video games. Yeah. It was only until I was like, okay, I'll start a gaming channel that I was like, I can justify playing video games one day a week.

Because it's like, oh, now I can have fun and be productive. And it's like the, I've literally just centered my entire. life around it in the sense that like everybody I hang out with is is you know somebody who's either like watching a movie with me like going to see a movie in theaters or is like a guest on one of my shows or something and like every way I spend my time it's like oh I visited my brother in Montreal but I brought my camera so I could get footage for my music video and it's like I'm you know even when I'm taking breaks I'm getting things done and it is like it is stressful and it is something that I would like to not do forever

but I enjoy being productive and I enjoy getting things done. That's one of the reasons I never wanted to do a gaming channel or something like that. I don't know. Do you feel that when you make everything part of your work, it stops being fun? No. Some of these things? No? Well, I mean, I feel like it would be for me.

I mean, obviously we're different. I still, I love doing streams. I love hanging out with people, you know. It's just a way of hanging out except just online And so like there'll be considerations that I have to make in terms of like You know, I'll have to plan out which game we're playing next and have like consistent guests on the same games for it The same episodes or whatever But other than that, you know, there are things that I'd be playing anyway

For the most part There's only a couple things that I'm not playing because I'm doing my stream So like I would love to play VR chat but I'm terrified of getting stream sniped in that game and somebody just coming up to me with like a character made of goatsees, which people have done. And like getting my Twitch band

because like that's a game you can't stream because he can't control whether or not someone will show up with content that can get you banned for showing it. Yeah. And that's what makes that game great. So that's something that is a hindrance, I guess. I haven't played VR chat

because I only play games when I stream. I have. Talk about literal cancer. The art chat is the definition of cancer. That's my review of that. I could go on forever about all the shit I'm working on, but I think we should probably talk about the Dark Night Rises. We spoke about a movie.

Yeah. That's right. So Alex. Sure. Last episode, you were like, Dark Night Rises sucks. And I'm like, I don't remember that sucking as bad as it did. So we all rewatched it so we can discuss it with you. Yeah.

Yeah. And. And, I mean, you're kind of right. You're kind of wrong. So who wants to start with this? Alex, start. God. I can't actually remember what I said last episode.

I wouldn't say it's like a dreadful film. There are things to respect about it and like about it, but I was very positive on that film. Back in memory. back in, when did it come out, 2012? I believe so. There are too many plot elements that I just find laughably stupid.

Yeah. Weird things I wouldn't expect from a from a Chris Nolan film that stand out to me. Like, I remember the editing being really all over the place. The music I thought was really weak as well than how it was used.

Yeah, we can go into that. Did you think, well, I like Baines track, the chanting. It's awesome, awesome. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I thought that was cool, but then when you think about, like, it's used effectively in the opening plane scene, but then that final confrontation between Bain and Batman is just so, God, it's just so wrong to me.

I love the scene. How to craft like a set piece. It was very goofy, especially in comparison with the rest of the tone. If I take off this mask, will you die? It would be extremely painful. You're a big guy. For you. I'm glad we're having this discussion because I feel like the Dark Night Rises

was a very controversial movie when it came out. I think there was a lot of fanboys defending it, a lot of fanboys fighting against it. So it's good that... Yeah, the dust is settled and we're able to look back on it and just judge it as a movie. And I think it's pretty good. I agree with a lot of the things you said. I think the dialogue is pretty bad I think a lot of the writing is pretty bad

but in terms of like a spectacle summer movie it still it still succeeds in a lot of ways I think sort of my problem with it is it has this real vibe as if like Chris Nolan really didn't want to make it that's what that's

the real like took away I I got from it like it was like I want to go be making like original shit like in stello and you know but he was logged on to another one these yeah well when he wanted to make inception he said like I'll do dark night rises but I got to make inception first and so yeah I can see why dark night rises feels that way and also how are you gonna top the dark night I don't think you can so I think Chris Nolan's like the way he thought

of it I think is he went the other route where he says I think I'm just going to make a dumb spectacle movie and that's how I see the dark night rises as a dumb spectacle movie and I I think in terms of spectacle, it's pretty fucking fantastic. The stuff he's able to do with these action scenes is really cool, the amount of extras is able to get. Really? You liked the action scenes? I did. Yeah, I thought the fight between him and Bain was great. I think the opening plane scene is fantastic. The opening playing scene is like the peak in terms of the action, I thought.

It peaked again when Bain fought Batman. I think that was a great fight. The opening plane scene was the peak of 4chan. Why is that? You don't know Bain posting? No, whatever. I don't. I don't know Bain posting. I'm out of the loop, apparently. That's funny.

There was a point in time where the film and TV discussion board on 4chan literally just turned into people reciting the lines from that opening scene and just basically making fun of it, spamming every post on the website for probably, I don't know, six months around the, film's release of just like if I take off that mask will you die it would be extremely painful you're a big guy and it's just I don't know it's it's hilarious to me I love Bain posting yeah I mean a lot of the dialogue like I said it's it's not a well-written script I agree with you there Alex audio mixing the worst the worst ever it's so bad it is some of the worst audio mixing I've ever I thought it was okay. It is so bad. It's like...

It's like... It's like... Really? Yeah. Oh. On my surround sound, it sounded goofy. What was your issue with it? No, every time Bain spoke, it sounds like...

Like, Brock Baker was doing his impression on, like... Yeah. Okay. Basically what happened is the test audiences for the film when they released the initial opening scene in the original trailer, we're like, I don't know. trailer we're like, I don't understand him. So they redubbed all of his lines and made it super loud. And it's like he's not even a character in the film anymore.

He's like the narrator. He's not even in the environment. Like everybody else's voice is normal. And his is basically coming from like the rear speakers. Yeah. You know, like, I like so, I hate it. I gave him this presence. He's so much fucking louder than everybody else.

It's supposed to be a megaphone. How do you know that? It could have been. I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to be a half megaphone. It could have been both. You don't know. Batman has all the sophisticated technology. You don't think Bain can find a megaphone half gas mask thing? Yeah, I don't think that's how it works.

You'd think Batman would be able to get a voice changer too. The amount of jokes that have been made about Batman's voice. And I still don't understand why they chose to keep his voice that way and not give him some voice changer over the course of the first. Goofy as hell. It is goofy as hell. Every time he talked, it was fucking goofy. And him and Bain were fighting, like, in broad daylight at the end, that was goofy too. I think Batman should stay basically in the dark. I think whenever he comes out. You mean where all the cops in the city and all the robbers in the city run at each other as if it's like one?

Well, they didn't have any guns left, right? So what else were they supposed to do? I was okay with that. It was just, and then Batman goes up to Bain and he has like this awful line of dialogue. he said he's like I came here to beat you yeah he's like no I came here to stop you it's like that's the best fucking thing you could come up with it is very strange because like the dark night is a very thought out sort of understanding of of what Batman represents as a character the sort of quiet detective and then you go to this and it's the complete opposite and nearly every scene with Batman it's like why would Batman do that he's like the stealthy works in the shadows guy but no he's running at Bain in

huge like army scene. It just feels so... No, no, that, that was okay with that because that's Bruce Wayne's character at that point. He was like this crippled old man, I guess, at that point. And he was trying to like relive the glory days. As I saw it, he was a little too confident and he thought he could beat Bain easily because he's Batman. And he gets his ass handed to him.

And I think that's kind of the arc he has. I mean the scene at the end where he just fights him in the middle of the city in broad daylight around a bunch of people punching each other. It just doesn't scream Batman to me. Yeah, that felt funny. You think of him as more intelligent. Yeah, because what is so strange about it

is they build Bruce Wayne up as being this really fragile character at this point. He is properly defeated physically. So he would have thought, for Batman to beat this physical force, he'd have to use his brains. Yeah, I don't know how he got stronger than him. Yeah, exactly.

But instead of using his brains, he just punches harder, basically. Yeah, and they never established he could train like he trained harder either Breaking my back made me more powerful than ever I think I think the biggest takeaway from this film for me is that It really feels like a rushed product and I think I don't know if this has been confirmed, but I'm pretty sure that Christopher Nolan had intended to continue with the Joker as part of the story and had an entirely different script and then Heath Ledger died and

Which I would have loved if we got more of the Joker in this film, and that was the end of the trilogy. Yeah, and it's very unfortunate because, like, I can understand why they wouldn't have just replaced him as an actor like they did with Maggie Jillenhall and Katie Holmes or whatever. Because you can't replace Keith Ledger. You can't. Exactly. Nobody gave a shit when it was Maggie Jillen Hall all of a sudden. I was like, okay, yeah. Yeah, because it's Katie Holmes before, who cares?

Exactly. No. But if you replaced Teeth Ledger, it's like, yeah, you can't. Like, that would be so not just disrespectful, but, like, you couldn't, you wouldn't be able to top it. It would just be a wasted effort. Cough, cough, cough, Jared Leto, cough. Yeah.

I don't know how much of the plot was changed, but it feels like it was just completely gutted after that point. Like, who knows? Perhaps let's, let's make some. conspiracy theories or something. Perhaps Christopher Nolan was just like, fuck it. And then, you know, other people jumped in and wrote this script for him. And he was like, okay, fine.

Like, I don't know. Like, it really just feels like a rushed thrown together product that wasn't thought out at all. You can tell. Yeah. I don't feel that his heart wasn't in it. It's just the, in the writing phase, maybe his heart wasn't in it. Because how is he supposed to top the Dark Knight? And I just think he chose to make a dumb superhero movie instead.

Well, but it works. Just because you make the Dark Night doesn't mean that you should rush a product out and throw it together. I'm not saying rush. I'm saying he went a whole new direction where he said, I'm just going to make a fucking epic Gotham story with all these different characters and all these different moving pieces. And it's going to be three hours long. And there's a lot of cool things in this movie that I think are risky that he did that I commend him for. Like how dark it is and how violent it is and how Batman. in the Batman suit is barely in it,

and it's mainly about Bruce Swain overcoming his personal demons and learning to stop half-assing being Batman and to be Batman again, you know? I liked all that stuff. The way you're describing it makes it sound like the issue with the film was that they went a new direction

and not that it was just thrown together and rushed. Like, you could still know... No, I think the issue with the film is that it's a stupid... It has a stupid script. I think they went a different direction, and the script was stupid... stupid, but there's still a lot of things I liked within that, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that's just me. Dude. Every element of it, when you take it on its own, is, like, quite weak. Yeah. Not every one. The reaction isn't that great. It peaks.

I totally disagree with you. I don't like that. You think the Bain fight in the middle? Yeah, yeah, I do. I do. And during that scene, I was like, wow, this is kind of, like the fight choreography. was kind of embarrassing, honestly. It was really clunky.

It was super clunky. I like, it was very, it was brute. Even just, like, watching it without altering the footage at all. Just, like, watching it normally, I was like, wow, he, Bain swung over top of Batman's head, but they added a sound effect of punching anyway. Like, that was weird. You know, it was a really clunky kind of not great fight scene. Like, like, Bain.

The sound design was a little overdramatic. Not just that, but like, okay, he, like, does this kicking motion and Batman does a flip over the little bridge thing, lands perfectly on, as though he, like, jumped and intended to do that. Like, he lands perfectly. Meanwhile, Bain takes, like, a whole five seconds to get down, like climb down the chain. And Batman has the opportunity to do something at this moment. If he wanted to, like, attack him while he was coming down, but he doesn't. And it presents itself as just like, oh, Batman was just, like, chilling there for the entire. time that Bain was climbing down there. We didn't show him, so we just have to imagine like,

oh yeah, he just got bored for a little bit. Bruce Wayne hadn't fought in like eight years at that point. He had that busted up a leg, and he was just overconfident because he's like, oh, I'm Batman. Who the fuck is this guy? Bain, who gives a shit? I'll kick his ass, and he lost. I don't think it communicated it in that way, but... All right. For me, that worked. I thought that seems like okay, but as far as, okay, if we give you that one in the plane scene, What else is there in terms of like spectacle action? Which is what you're calling out as being good.

And that's just action spectacle. I think the spectacle of the story itself that you're watching a city being infiltrated by this terrorist organization, even though it's stupid, sure. It's cool. What they have to do is so stupid there. Every cop in the city going underground. Yeah. Literally three thousand police officers, they said. Flesh him out.

Totally. I agree with you there. But there is some cool stuff. Like, first, the, what's the name, the League of Shadows, they had to, like, infiltrate rich people within Gotham and get their money to finance certain things. And then from there, they took over the military part of it, and they militarized their soldiers, and then they broke everyone out of prison. Like, the whole process of taking over the city and bringing it to anarchy was really interesting to watch. Yeah.

So I enjoyed watching all that stuff. But they don't develop that at all. There's a huge time job that skips out all of that development. Yeah, you're right. It would have been interesting to see that. When they take over, it just skips. They spent a lot of time with throwing in as many characters as possible and kind of, you know, abandoning being able to develop the core elements that make the story interesting. You know, like when you have so many characters that you're throwing in, like, I want to have Catwoman, I want to have Robin.

I want to have Marion Cotiar. You know, like, I want to have all these different bun. this ensemble of random characters that we've thrown in yeah and bain too it's like that was the issue with spider man three that was the issue with the amazing spider man too like when you have too many ideas that you're trying to do at once and you're trying to execute them all at the same time you don't have enough opportunity to develop them in the way the lab in as well yeah exactly and like a lot of these characters that they threw in were just useless and stupid i didn't like catwoman i didn't like robin i didn't like marion cociard's character you know like they

They all just felt unnecessary. And it's just like, even, even Bain I didn't like, but I was okay with it. No, Bain, I liked. Bain I liked. I don't like Bain, but like. I think Bain is a great villain. You know, if it were developed more, if we got like the core of what the story was trying to be or the core of what made the story interesting and it was just developed more, that

would have been great. But instead, they just waste a bunch of time on shit that I don't care about. I agree with you that this movie is way too many characters and it's blow. loaded with all that shit. But let's talk about Bain for a second because I think Bain is a good villain. I think Bain is the perfect villain for like this chapter in Batman where he's physically capable of defeating Batman and also really smart and he has all these resources where he could totally kick Batman's ass. And the fact that Batman had to overcome that was cool. I think Bain is a fucking scary villain. What's his superpower? I hate how he beats him there.

The way he beats him is so stupid. But, What did you say, Adam? What's his superpower? He's just a strong man? He's a strong, smart fucking guy. He's just a ninja. Yeah, and that's what Batman is. He's in the league of shadows.

He's a better version of Batman, basically, in every way. And he's fucking pure evil. He's like, there is not an ounce of, like, sympathy with him. He's just a fucking dick. And that was... But Batman with a beat sim. No, Batman, yeah. Because at that point in the movie, Marion Cotillard is the main threat, which was stupid.

and then Anne Hathaway just shoot Spain. That was fucking dumb. I agree with you there. Such an anti-climactic death. Why did she hate him? Why was she the villain all of a sudden? Like that was so weird. She said like, I hated my father, but then you killed my father, and so now I hate you.

You know, Gotham's not really that cool. I think we should kill it. Stab. Her motivation made no sense. If they had had, like, she had a really strong connection to her father, maybe that would work. But they establish that she doesn't at all. So I don't understand what that was. And her death, too, when she's like,

you will never say, death them. It's like I have a cartoon. Yeah, it was kind of lame. Can we talk, like, so I'm trying to understand, like the mechanics of everything that was set up in order for the plot to happen here. They basically, Bain had, you know,

he has a bunch of followers that are eager to die for him at any moment and this has all just been happening underground with nobody noticing he has hired a bunch of construction workers to mix cement and explosives together and is the the idea is that like

what for the past I don't know year like the city has just been unknowingly using concrete laced with explosives and thinking that it was just normal concrete is that like the yeah I think that's but and and the construction plans of the city just so happened to perfectly line up with the areas that he wanted to explode to trap the police officers and like sure does it does that imply that they just renovated like underneath the football stadium like underneath the entire grass of the stadium like there was some massive cement based

construction going on is that a new stadium that stadium not exist before like well maybe they also placed explosives on top of it. So it was like half control demolition and then half the cement mixed with the explosives, you know, there was like a mix of different explosives. It's a very, very impossibly

intricate plan to kind of pull off is the way I feel about it. Okay. It doesn't make that much sense. No, okay. Did all the bridges were using that cement? Did those bridges all get renovated in the past year? We're not even

They put controlled explosives on there. How did they get, I mean, they've just, okay. They just brought a bunch of explosives to the bridges, I guess because the police were distracted, because they're all idiots. They were all underground. You've thought about this way more than Chris Nolan did, so. Yeah.

I just want to know, like, the football stadium was a cool shot. You know, we got a cool shot with the football scene, but, like, I'm just, where, how, when did they put the explosives under? underneath the stadium. Like, is there only a small layer beneath the floor of the ground of the stadium and, like, I guess, a gigantic open area

in the sewers below? Maybe. I don't know. That's not interesting. So, like, if that was in the movie, how they managed to do that, which I guess you could come up with some explanation, it wouldn't make the movie any better for me. It would just make it longer. I think the main issue with the movie is that it's just bloated with too many characters and a lot of bad dialogue.

That's my biggest issue. Yeah. And if I think there's a two-hour movie in there, that's good. And I like some of the characters he introduced, like Catwoman. I don't like what he did with Robin. I think that was stupid, especially the fact that he made his last name Robin. Like, what the fuck is that? Like, where that's stupid.

You know who Batman is because he, like, felt it. Yeah. That was, oh, that was so dumb, too. I knew at the end as well Did you remember that really weird bit at the end Where he's talking to Commissioner Gordon And he's like Putting the jacket on a kid

I'm Batman I'm Bruce Wayne Oh my God That was fucking corny too You're Bruce Wayne Yeah Such an elaborate like flowery way of phrasing that And then as if it wasn't obvious enough

Commissioner Gordon's like Oh my God It's Bruce Wayne Duh Fucking for the dumb audience I know that there's some sort of lore to go along with this that I guess I'm just not that familiar with but like what exactly was that like prison where all the dudes were that they were trying to like climb out

of what was that it's out of some pit like where what not just like not just where but like what kind of prisoners like is bain's prisoners like he just this isn't like a governmental run thing I was like yeah I'm just people in that area like where we're What is that? Where is that? Like, what is that thing? It's just in a foreign country somewhere, and that's... There's an explanation for it.

I guess it's more about what it represents more than the geographic relevance of it. Mm-hmm. I like that whole thing, especially the parallels with him rising from the well, from Batman begins. It's a prison, but they give you a rope to escape? Yeah, because that makes... Because most people don't escape, it's, like, impossible. almost. So it gives them this little ray of hope

that they'll never realize. So you know, it's torturous for them, which makes the prison even worse. That was awesome. But there's like children born in that prison? Like, why are people there? I don't know. You're overthinking these things. That's what I do. I want to

know these things. You know, I'm interested. You should Google it. There's probably some info on it. Maybe. Probably. Maybe. Did you guys like Did you like Michael Cain in the movie How every scene he was in he just cried That's all he was in the movie for

He was just always sad Because they probably realized the film had no heart And it's like oh shit We gotta have someone crying It's the end of a trinity I have fight But can't we have one scene With Michael Cain where he's not fucking crying

I failed you must have There was literally Not one scene Mmhmm Yeah Yeah there's a few things in the Well, I mean, I've just got a list of like nitpicky things that I find funny. All right.

Go through your nitpicky things. I love that when he walks into the football stadium, there's a conveniently passed out referee that has a microphone that he is wearing that's already plugged into the overhead system, like the intercoms that like nobody had to switch over. And he's just like picks it up off the conveniently passed out referee, not just conveniently passed out but like convenient that he wasn't swallowed into the pit that exploded like oh yeah I'm just walking past him hey I have a microphone now like what were you planning on doing if he wasn't there like you didn't you could have brought your own

microphone if you were planning this shit I don't know if you if you I don't know but none of these things make it a worse movie I don't know it's just that doesn't kind of funny I'm okay with that kind of thing I love how when when he has the doctor and he's like I'm gonna show everybody that that this doctor is the only person that can disarm this massive explosive. I'm gonna show everybody that he's dead. But instead of shooting him, he like snaps his neck. It's like if you're gonna try to convince to the world like that this person is dead and you know, you're trying to make an example or scare them, you'd probably want to shoot them, not snap their nag. That was even cooler. Are you kidding?

He snapped his fucking neck on live television. It looks fake. I like the next now. I love that. That's, Bain would totally not use a gun. He just fucking uses his bare hands to kill people. That's That's great. We totally disagree on how awesome Bain is. Bain for me is one of the best parts of the movie. Bain's laughable to me. He's such a goofy character. Really? Yeah. He's pure evil. I find that kind of scary. They show he's got like a sympathetic side at the end, don't they? Oh, with his like- Because he's protecting- Daughter.

Or whatever. Not his real daughter. Yeah, but okay, he's got a soft spot for a little girl. Then he gets shot. Then he gets shot by Catwoman. But that, yeah. That's his, one sympathetic trait. Did anybody enjoy the street barricades that were just ramps? That was pretty funny.

That they implemented those and spent tax dollars on those when they're just ramps. I guess. You can just drive over them. After the stock market thing. I like that chasing. No. Really? I thought

it was appalling. Yeah. I thought it was really bad. You thought it was appalling? No, I'm serious. They're driving away, right? And then it suddenly cuts to night time out of nowhere. And then... They were in that tunnel for a while. No, it was the middle of the day. Okay, listen.

I've heard this complaint so many times. They're leaving the Wall Street Exchange. It's like sunset. They go in that tunnel for like 20 minutes and they come out. And, okay, it's like pitch black night, which is a little silly. But it wasn't so distracting to where I was like, okay, what the fuck? You know? Okay.

There's a really bad scene where Batman first comes in, right? And they play that iconic bit of music from The Dark Night, cool, whatever, except none of it has earned. It's very clumsy in its execution. And he pulls out this weird, like, electric gun thing that they don't really explain. And then it gets shot, and then it cuts to a policeman. It's supposed to be funny. Oh, yeah.

It's just very confusing, weirdly structured, like, a whole action setpiece. I think that the music itself was great, but the way that they used it was very like manipulative. Exactly, yeah. Like it didn't earn itself being used in any situation. It was like, I was just watching it thinking, wow, this scene would be really fucking lame if there wasn't music right now. Like, there wasn't anything to justify the music in the scene. Yeah. It's like at the end where he's flying away with the bomb, they just replay the music from the dark night from that really tense, brilliant scene.

Yeah. from the Dark Night, but it's like, let's recapture that magic by just using the music, because it's just the music that made it work, so let's just plop it in. Speaking of recapturing the magic from the Dark Night, do you think that the original title wasn't going to be The Dark Night Rises, but the Dark Night was so successful that they were like, no, we have to have the Dark Night in the title, so everybody knows it's the Dark Night. 100%.

Yeah, that's what I feel anyway. 100%, I agree. Think about what is actually developed. developed in the two hours and 44 minutes that this film is made up of. I know. I agree with you guys again. It's bloated, but I think there's a good two hours in there, and there's a 44 minutes of bullshit, but there's a good two hours in there. But every good thing has something that weighs it down.

Like you say Bain is an interesting character, what he represents, and I'm with you with that, but then his conclusion is weak. It never really builds to anything. The actual summit of their fight is... the fight is terrible in its execution. And then you go to what Batman and his whole arc, again, it's just tied in with Bain's one. And then you go to Catwoman, it's like, well, ultimately she doesn't really represent much

and she could be taken out of film. She doesn't matter at all. Yeah, exactly. And then you go to... And a similar thing. Should have been Hallie Berry. I mean, her characters, her character's arc fit within the world

where she wanted anarchy and then Gotham turns into anarchy and she realizes that when everything has no structure, it's a bad thing, right? Everything she wanted was... But why is that necessary in the movie about... Right, it's not necessary, but it does fit in. I don't think it does fit, man. I think it does fit.

It's just... Yeah, you are right when literally, in terms of the actual plot, she serves no function at all. She just has her own fucking thing going on. And I like her character, and I think Anna Hathaway's pretty good. It's just she didn't really need to be in it. she didn't need to be in it and I guess to relate to what you were saying earlier when you say

there was a good a great two hour movie in there but 44 minutes of bullshit or whatever I agree kind of but I also kind of disagree in the sense that like yeah there was some great stuff that was developed but it wasn't developed enough like I would have much

rather had the same length of a film but having the core two hours or however long the core of the film is I would have rather had that extra 44 minutes being spent on developing the rest of that. I felt like what we got was underdeveloped, so I can't even call it great just by taking out the unnecessary characters and unnecessary elements of the film. Sure, I can agree that things weren't developed as much as I would have liked, but they were developed enough to where I found it entertaining and interesting. And the movie, it always, I don't think it was boring.

Like, it always had me. It would lose me at certain times, but then the next scene after would be something cool or, you know, a set piece that I liked. And I forgot about what I didn't like about it. I don't think it's a great movie. I don't think it's nearly as good as I thought it was when I first saw it, but I still like it.

I hear your complaints. I understand what you guys are saying. I got you. Yeah. When you really break it down, there isn't really that much I even like about it. Like, if you don't like the story, you don't like any of the characters,

you don't like any of the action, and all you like is like vague plot ideas on paper that in execution aren't really fulfilled in any meaningful way. Yeah. I mean, what is left?

There's just nothing. Absolutely nothing. For you, that's fair. I thought it was interesting enough, and it was mainly bogged down by bad dialogue and characters and a bunch of bullshit. I just like,

the scene where the man punches his back better. But then in like the scene after he's on the rope and he falls down like 10 meters and it doesn't hurt his back, whatever. I don't know why they don't just like get rid of the slack. I don't know where the other end of the rope is attached to. You know, if they just like pulled pulled on the other end of the rope and gave them some slack then or got rid of the slack then that wouldn't happen. I guess it's like attached to an area higher up. But then that would imply that that same piece of rope has been there for like 50 years. I mean, a guy comes every once in a while and replaces the rope for them. Yeah.

Like Bain shows up and repels down and like changes the rope out for them. Someone has to come to them food. Someone has to come to bring him food and water and change out the rope. Yeah. There's like a maintenance guy. I love how Bain apparently paid this man a lot of money to keep Batman alive, but it's like, what good is your money down there? Why do you care that you're super fucking rich when you're like living in this pit? I was like, you paid me a lot of money to keep you alive. Like, what are you going to do with it?

That's a great point. I don't know. I mean... That pit is confusing to me. I don't fully understand it. It was supposed to represent Batman Rising, okay? I get it. The Dark Night Rising.

You're overthinking it. It's a stupid comic book movie. Okay. Do you guys think this film gets a pass because Nolan directed it? I think this movie's judged more harshly. because Nolan directed it. No. Really?

You don't think so? No. It's one of the highest rated films on IMDB. Yeah. Let's look it up in the fucking top 250. See where it's standing right now, because that's very useful information. I feel like the reaction to it is very extreme.

I think people, a lot of people just either love or hate this movie. All right, we got 1.3 million ratings, 8.4 on IMDB. It's the 67th highest rated film on IMDB. Wow. Yeah, holy shit When you said that this was controversial, I didn't even really agree with you there. I think most people really love it, although it's considered the worst of the three. It's considered the worst by everybody.

In my circle, it's controversial. Yeah. Yeah, I think people still love it. I mean, good for them. I think those people are just comic book fans who like it no matter what. Some of them. I mean, but no, then the DC movies would do well in the ratings. Yeah.

I don't know. All I can speak for is myself. thought it was pretty good. Yeah. Re-watching it now. It's no dark night. What is? But I enjoyed myself.

It was okay. Yeah, I give it a very generous six out of ten. I kind of want to give it a five. But what brings it up for me is even though the music is used a little improperly, I still think the music is great. There are some select scenes where I'm able to feel like some legitimate, exhilar, you know, feel legitimately exhilarated watching parts of it, I guess. And overall, I do appreciate, you know, the usage of practical effects.

It's, like, relatively well shot for the most part. But there's just so much at its core that is just broken that I wish it could have been something more, you know? Mm-hmm. I agree with you there. It could have been something more. Yeah, it's a very wasted opportunity for me. You tried to go big.

Yeah, that's the perfect way to phrase. You tried to go big. And it failed spectacularly pretty much in every way. Like in my eyes at this point, I will admit, why didn't, I wasn't bored. I was just sat there thinking, wow, this is, this is dumb, I expect more of this. And it was right after rewatching the Dark Night as well, because I was thinking, maybe I'll see things in that film that maybe won't hold up, but that film's still great. And you can tell so much like passion and thought went into structuring that film.

And then you go to this and it's like, wow. if Nolan's name wasn't on this you could just like yeah you could really just like pass it off as any old Subura garbage like and not even Wow I don't I don't think that

you did say it was a stupid Super Baratbuster and the Dark Night wasn't it was above it It's a shame that it's gonna be compared I mean it has the Dark Night in this title How can you not compare it to the Dark Night? And the same director are the same writers It's just it seems like a different team to me

with the same actors But the Dark Night is such a great, intelligent crime thriller. It's like you're not going to, you can't do that again, especially when Heath Ledger's gone. So I commend them for taking the route of making a sillier Gotham story more so than just about Batman, where it's this whole cast of characters. And there's some characters I like. I think there's some fun action. I think there's ideas they explore in it, like the whole system falling apart in Gotham.

It's just, you know, chaos, which I found interesting. But yeah, I agree with a lot of what you guys said. I'm going to give the same rating as Adam, the 3 out of 5, the 6 out of 10. Yeah. I'd give it a 2 out 5. Wow. I don't think it's garbage. I don't think it's like, I don't know.

What are some of the worst superhero movies? Like the Spider-Man, the Amazing Spider-Man movies or that kind of shit. I don't think it's on that level. I wouldn't say it's on that level either because that film's really funny. Yeah. That one's like a golden film for me. I could watch that a million times. Yes, I find it so hilarious.

Do you think Electro's a better villain than Bain? No. He lied to me. He hates a me. Oh, please. Yeah, what the? Hits a me. Mario.

All right. Yahoo. That's Dark Night Rises. That is. I guess. Six years later. I guess we should move on to our other film discussion. We talked about that for a while.

Geez, yeah. Somebody recommended a movie last episode, and we're going to talk about it and spoil the whole thing. So watch it if you haven't already, so you're not spoiled for this movie. What is this movie, and what is it about? So I chose a film from 1990 called Jacob's Ladder. I don't really know why I picked it.

just trying to find something at least Adam hadn't seen recently and Ralph had never seen. But it's a sort of drama, mystery, horror sort of movie about a Vietnam war veteran. And there's a whole mystery that he has to solve because he's seeing all this strange sort of hallucinations. Or you don't really know what's going on for most of it. And I mean, where can we go with that? without just going straight into the whole plot here. Yeah. Do it.

Did we like it, first of all? Overall, yeah. I liked it a lot. It's ambitious in what it's going for. I think it was probably ahead of its time a little bit. Yeah. It's hard to put yourself into the headspace of 1990 based on everything we have now

and all the horror techniques available to us and how fresh it would have been at the time and how impressive it would have been. There's still a lot of things in there, which I thought were really impressive and ambitious. Yeah. I think some of it's lost to just, it felt a little dated some of it.

I still like it, but I think it's a standard execution for a movie made in 1990, right? And I think, like the music was a little dated and, I don't know, there's some cliche things, things that are cliche now that probably weren't cliche at the time that it took me out of it. But I think at its core, like you're saying, Alex,

It's a really complex and emotional movie. I really liked it a lot. There's a lot to like about it. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I think that a lot of it is really well executed, and there's some parts where I kind of find it laughable at the same time.

Like there's some parts that are a little difficult to take seriously. I love how, you know, when he's like very slowly walking over the train tracks, and I'm just like, come on. What are you doing? We all know what's going to happen right now Stop it Like there's some cheeseball moments for sure The first 15 minutes are pretty weak

Like that whole action scene in Vietnam And it's like doing those really quick zoom-ins That look like they're out of the office or something I'm like what the fuck is this I do like the opening scene though I kind of like the opening scene I do find it kind of like horrific in its own way I like the confusion

Going on I think they were trying to go for confusion but it just felt comical to me with the zooms and the I think the music I don't remember the music but I remember noting the music was bad It's the zooming that wasn't more than anything

in that scene It's very like It's a comedy zoom It was a comedy zoom It was a digital film Yeah yeah It was a development or something Yeah

I like that conceptually It's At this point in time It's considered One of these staples of like a trippy I don't know what's happening kind of movie like the character's uncertain of their own reality and and you're left guessing like what is the real world what is happening sort of thing

like people are always referencing this movie uh in regards to that kind of concept even though it has been done multiple times since then and i'm willing to assume that there are movies that have done similar things before this point at the same time just this is one of the more successful versions of that, I guess. And it is relatively well pulled off in the same time. Did it bomb when it came out? I think so, yeah. I was reading the trivia and there was an interview with Tim Robbins saying that

he thought it bombed because of something to do with the political climate at the time. Oh, yeah. It was about Vietnam and there was some of the war going on when it came out. Oh, yeah. Distributors were like scared of it or something? Yeah. Yeah. Again, it's hard to know without like going into the history books for this one. Yeah, I don't know anything about that.

It does seem to be like a source for inspiration in many ways. I don't know if you guys noticed like the hospital scene and how similar that was to Silent Hill. Silent Hill has included many references to Jacob's Ladder in the first three games that they made that are pretty blatant. And they're not hiding the fact that they were inspired by this film, which I find. kind of cool oh okay well I never played it you're talking about the games right not the movies uh yeah I am talking about the games the silent hole games okay yeah I had no idea but you should play them so pretty I should you know what I'll write that down right now I'll play the silent home two and three are awesome but avoid the HD collection because they ruined it okay you got

to play like the original ones well uh there's a movies you should there's a very uh thorough series from a channel called Twin Perfect on how much they destroyed the original games in the HD collection. Like the information's everywhere, but there's like an hour or two hour long video series from Twin Perfect detailing it. And don't get put off by the low like to dislike ratio

on the video because for some reason they were absolute idiots and we're like, we need to tell Konami how much you dislike the HD collection. So leave a thumbs down on this video. I'm like, that makes no sense. That makes no sense at all. Yeah, because like people don't support what you're saying. And also, like, some people maybe won't watch up until that point,

and they'll leave a like because they liked what they saw. And it's like, you're not going to have like a full, you know, you're just making it less accessible and people aren't going to find it as easily. Like, that's stupid, but whatever. It's a really good video. Like, it's a really good breakdown. They get very thoroughly. thorough and detailed and I would I would recommend that that review anyway how much did you know how

much did you know about this movie before watching it Adam oh um well I watched it once when I was like probably 15 or something okay um so I'd seen it before but I hadn't seen it a long time I kind of feel similarly to how I watched it back then it's like Like, what's kind of funny about this is when I watched it recently, I watched it with my roommate, and he pretty much had the same story of like, oh, yeah, I watched it when I was younger. But now that I've given enough time, now I can probably appreciate it more. And there's things to appreciate it for sure. And there's things that stand out that as an adult, I'm like, okay, I can appreciate that in terms of like filmmaking, presentation, et cetera. But at the same time, despite liking it overall, it is in some ways a little underwhelming.

And I can see why it didn't click with me so much when I was younger. It's because it's not amazing. That's fair. I knew nothing about the movie going into it. So at first, I was like, okay, it's like a war drama, whatever. And once the psychological horror elements of it started coming in, that's when I really started to not fall in love with it, but I definitely got way more engaged in it.

I think there's a lot of really disturbing imagery and horrific shit in this movie. That's actually very effective. And that's hard to do. So I commend this movie 100% for actually making me feel that way. Some of them are very effective. Like the chiropractor doing his neck got me. Oh, yeah. I thought that was great.

It wasn't like horrific. It was just like a gross. That probably fucking hurts. Yeah. Uncomfortable. Yeah. Some of the, some of the symbolism was a little over the top.

Yeah. Definitely. I love how he just flat out says, Oh, the chiropractor's an angel. Yeah. It's like, I got it. And I love how, I love how they repeat the line of like,

sometimes you have people that lead you to heaven. The angel will walk you up the stairs or whatever. And then it just shows it. Like, they kind of, I don't know, Some of it felt a really Not subtle Apparently it's toned down as well Oh really?

Like originally it was going to be Even more on the notes with that kind of stuff Oh yeah? Oh that wouldn't have been good No No yeah I mean I think the movie's a little on the nose And a little cheesy

But not so much to where People wouldn't have different interpretations of it You know Yeah I think it's it's enough It's vague enough To where everyone has their own thing they took away from it.

I totally saw it as a metaphor for PTSD, but that's just me. Yeah, it can be. I bet other people will have different interpretations of it. The whole, he actually died at the end, and then it's him going to heaven, and the whole movie was like him processing his life or something. Yeah.

He was in, like, purgatory. Yeah, that's what it kind of feels like. That ending shot kind of implies that. No, but that could be all a metaphor, too. Because how I saw it was the PTSD and I saw that thing is like how indifferent the United States military was to the suffering of veterans where they would suffer with PTSD and all the shit and they would usually die from drugs or something else and then they would go, eh, whatever, fuck him, move on to the next guy. Yeah, you served your purpose. Right, you serve your purpose and we really don't give that much of a fuck, which is what happened a lot. So,

Oops. There's definitely, or it's literally what they said, where they released some weird biochemical weapon onto the soldiers that made them hallucinate. Yeah, who knows? You know, maybe that's it. Yeah, who knows?

And I like that confusion of it, because there's a point where you don't know what's real anymore, and it doesn't really matter, because you're just watching this poor fucking guy just struggle through it all, you know? Yeah, I do like that it's kind of open-ended, and I do like that there's room for interpretation. I just, I don't know,

it does feel kind of repetitive at points. I really don't like his wife, the new wife. I really don't like her. Really? I thought they, you felt that way about it? The character, not like the actor or anything. Oh, okay.

She was so mean. Character. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I thought they were. You're going crazy, I'm going to leave you. Yeah. Yeah.

All right, this might be a weird theory, but there was a point where I started noticing she was acting weird, and I thought she was like an informant sent by the, like, the United States military or whatever, like one of those spies that kidnaps him. I was thinking that. So I'm like, maybe that's why she's acting like a bitch and acting all weird. Because if you notice, too, the, like, the lawyer calls the house, like later on in the movie and she picks it up. and then she's the one who tells him that the lawyer dropped out of the case so I'm thinking like oh maybe she's in on it right that and which adds a whole other

fucking layer to it I feel like this is a movie I got to watch a few times before I fully get it you know I think it's a it's an interesting puzzle I like movies like that I feel like the most or the biggest example of the film being dated is the

character design of the main character because he looks like such a fucking dork at this point but in 1990 you could like pull that off and not look like a huge dork you know yeah

he's just looked like the why does everybody want to fuck him he's a dork yeah he has like the Vietnam jacket I wrote a list of like cliche things that happened or like dated things

slow motion flashbacks like that aren't shot in slow motion. Like they speed them up or no, they slow them down in like post, you know? Yeah. So it kind of looks like shit.

They have like the melodramatic piano. They have the dramatic like heartbeat sound effect. It's like don't don't in the background. It's like, that's a little cheesy. They have the helicopter propeller spinning in slow motion. So many war movies do that. And he's like being carried up.

I don't know. There's stuff like that that really took me out of it. But overall, it's pretty good. Did you notice how the chiropractor was the guy from Do the Right Thing that owns the Pizza Shop? Yeah, Sal's Bezzeria. And did you know, it's George Costanza? Oh, yeah, of course.

Yeah. Who's George Cazzo? I don't know. George Custanza's name? I forget his real name. Oh, that guy. He'll always be the character, unfortunately. and yeah

McCullochie Culkin was a pretty funny addition to the film as well just seeing his picture I enjoyed seeing him that was a nice surprise yeah it's it's not as dense and substantive

as as it's kind of made out to be in terms of the overall cultural perception of this film like it's held up there You know, it's a title that people recognize and people consider to be a huge classic, but it still feels kind of lacking to me.

Like, it doesn't have enough to make me consider it as such. And I'll probably never watch it again. I'm glad I watched it again. Yeah. But I'm kind of just like, oh, yeah, I remember what it is now, and I'm like kind of done with it. Really? I'm actually interested to see it again. I think there's more in there than I think you're giving a credit for.

There's also the whole element where like Americans like watching movies about Vietnam and exploring that topic. You know? Yeah. It's just how much of a cluster fuck it was in a variety of different ways. And I think this is one of the better movies I've seen having to deal with PTSD from that time, you know? I think it captures really well what PTSD must be like. where it's just confusing and you don't know what's real and you don't know what's fake anymore, you don't know where you are or what's going on.

Demons try to fuck your girlfriend and you scream. Uh-huh, demons try to fuck your girlfriend. I think you could interpret it in different ways. Oh, of course. I think that's why it's been championed for so long as this important film, an important movie about Vietnam. I can really see how someone could get a lot more out of it than I did. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. That's fair. That's what I was hoping for. Yeah. I recommend it again because I watched it when I was much younger, too. I must have just missed a bunch. Yeah. Because it's really held up on a pedestal.

Yeah, it is. That's how I heard about it. It was on some film show or something they were talking about it. And so, oh, that sounds right out of my alley. And there is loads to appreciate about it. I do like it a lot, especially the whole psychological aspect. I really liked how subtle the, I guess they are demons or creatures or whatever you want to call them.

I like that they weren't so overt that they could be laughable. So imagine if they showed these like goofy looking creatures like puppets sort of wiggling on the screen. That could have been that could have been a bit too much and ruined the whole vibe of the film. Yeah. I thought it was just enough. T's just enough. That kind of thing. I liked the inspiration from sort of classic bits of art, HR Geiger in there.

the whole head shaking thing that was really creepy that was so well done they filmed it at like four frames per second or something yeah four frames and sped it up to 24

and it is really effective that that's the kind of thing that I was really attaching myself to in terms of like the presentation showing me something you haven't seen before or what's set trends yeah aside from that though

there wasn't that much else really to cling on to. Yeah. I thought the main drive of the movie is kind of the mystery aspect, I suppose. And it remains interesting the whole time and then it's kind of revealed at the end. But there isn't really that gut punch you're sort of hoping for. Yeah. It does kind of just end, doesn't it?

Yeah. I was just imagining like a director with more of a vision or flair or style maybe. M-night. Maybe not M-night, but For some reason, I was really wishing for someone like What's the Mr. Robot guy, Ralph? What's he called Sam Esmel? I would really like to see something like this,

some material like this, this kind of close, intimate story told with that kind of presentation. I think that would be extremely effective, way more than what this film ended up being. Yeah, I agree with you there. But I think most of that's just due to the age of it. know like yeah exactly I don't hold that much against it yeah yeah like it's just a movie from 1990 you know and that's just how they made movies at that time so I there's

like there are films like just look at like I don't know 2001 you know oh yeah well if you're gonna pick out like great fucking masterpieces like that that are literally that's what I mean I feel like buried within this there could be something that impactful yeah but it's not I agree with you if it had been executed by, I don't know, some autore who understood that and understood how to make something timeless,

then this could have been a fucking masterpiece. But as it stands, because of that, yeah, because of that like, execution, it deflates it a lot. And I totally agree with that. Totally agree with that. I feel like this is something

that I probably wouldn't want to see a direct remake of, but I would like to see newer ideas or newer films that explore the same kind of concept or same kind of tone in filmmaking style. Like I would love to see something like this that is just as confusing and really captures what this film is going for,

but with a more, I guess, polished presentation and perhaps more to chew on in terms of, of like overall arcs or overall characters I guess or give me something more to chew on in terms of the story apparently we're getting a remake next year so oh really what I'm listed there with the director and writers so jacobs ladder 2019 you know what I'd recommend for you Adam that's like that mr. robot like yeah season two mr. robot. Now that you brought it up, Alex, actually a lot in common. You know what I mean? You can tell they took a lot from Jacob's Ladder, a lot of inspiration from it.

But improved it in like every way. Yeah, improved it and in ways made it funnier, like sometimes and made it scarier in other times. Yeah. I can give it another chance sometime. It's ending next year. Good. Season four, that's it. Good. So Adam never has to hear about it again. You only got another year out of it. I don't know. Okay Fine It was fine

So what would you guys give this film out of 10? What would we? I was feeling a three out of five I'm solid overall Had some weird things about it One weird thing I have to mention is how I found it weirdly funny How Tim Robbins is so ridiculously tall

And his girlfriend was The wife was like 5 foot one and there's that shot where she's like looking vertically up and looking right down it's like is this intentional because like you didn't have to do that but that's irrelevant yeah it was right I enjoyed it I appreciate

the minds it perhaps inspired and the things that spawned because of it more than what I actually like about the movie itself I'd still recommend watching it at least once especially if you're a fan of sort of psychological horror and interesting subtle ways of sneaking in scares and delivering a sort of mysterious plot like this. I think there's a lot of good in there.

Sort of it, really. Nice. I liked it a lot. I want to see it a few more times. I have a feeling my rating might go down or up depending. Yeah. You know, if I see it a few more times. But I really liked it.

I think the execution's strong. I think there's some things about it that are dated. I agree with Adam that the middle. It all kind of sags a bit and it gets a little repetitive. But, I mean, it's a really ambitious, weird movie. And for the most part, most part, it's effective. I'd give it like a four out of five. Yeah.

Nice. I give it a six out of ten. Nice. That's pretty good. Pretty good. It's nice. Still, I was yearning for more at the same time. That's fair.

I guess we should move on to questions. Yeah? I guess so. Damn straight. Question number one. Alex. You had them.

Oh, no, no. No, no. Question number one, then read the question. No, no, no. I thought you were going to read it. If you want to ask us questions, go to the Sardinica. Numero, Uno.

Sardanaica, subreddit also. Yeah, make sure you leave some for us to answer. We got one here from Domione Chilado, who says, can a comedy be a 10 out of 10 just on laughs and enjoyment or does it need more? I posted this one in the questions thread for episode 14, but I am all the more curious how you three quantify this,

given the discussion around punch drunk love, being enjoyable but not life changing to paraphrase life and I think, Ralph and I think Alex. That's a big question. Can you, yeah. So can a comedy be a 10 out of 10 just on laughs and enjoyment is the main. question there. It depends what your rating system is.

Really? I mean, if I were to talk about my own personal rating system, I wouldn't give something a 10 out of 10 if it didn't have anything to offer other than my own personal enjoyment. You know, I can say that I could call it my favorite movie even. I could say that I love this movie more than anything else in the world, but I probably wouldn't give it a 10 out of 10. But that's just because of how I rate things.

I like to include aspects of the filmmaking craft in there as well. things that I think are actually well done, not just my own emotional reaction. Yeah, I'm with Adam. Totally. Like, I can say, Chowland Soccer is a five out of five movie for me because I think it's fucking hilarious, one of the most entertaining movies I've ever seen, but I cannot rate it as like one of the greatest movies of all time. Like, I can't say it's up there with 2001 or anything like that. Like, objectively speaking, I can't say that. So it just depends how you rate things, I guess. Although it's very hard for me usually to rate a movie a 10 out of 10 if it's just entertaining.

It has to be like mega entertaining to reach that level. But like an Adam Sandler comedy or something like that or like I guess it's a bad example. What's like a good mainstream comedy? Like office space? Yeah. Like office space. It depends what you mean by mainstream, I guess. Yeah.

Like Monty Python and the Holy Grail, that's mainstream, right? Yeah, but that's a great movie. I'm trying to think, like, horrible bosses or some shit like that, you know? 21 Jump Street, I could never read. 21 Jump Street, right. Like, that's a really funny movie, but I could never give that a 10 out of 10, even though it's really funny. I mean, it did everything it had to do, but at the end of the day,

I won't remember it 10 years from now, you know. I guess it's the same of like any film. And you can't boil it down into one thing. Like we were just saying with the Dark Night Rises, even if you do like some of the action scenes, it still has like other elements to it. And if the other things are holding it down, like I keep thinking about, you know,

everyone loves the Willfrel comedies, I'm always harping on about them, stepbrothers and whatnot. People find them hilarious, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I find my bigger problems with them more than the man-child humor is how technically boring they are,

just in terms of the filmmaking, you know. So that's where I come down on it. It just depends on how much the elements resonate with you. Yeah. Certain elements resonate. You can value different aspects of filmmaking. Some people are, you know, completely oblivious to shot composition and all they want out of a film is just a funny comedian saying funny jokes

that they, that resonate. with them, right? Where like, if you're watching a comedy, that's what a lot of people want is just that, which is why Judd Apatow is successful. He doesn't really bring anything to the filmmaking aspect of the movie. It's just shot, reverse shot, and there's funny people in it, you know? Yeah, exactly, yeah. How does that, how is that relating to, uh, punch drunk love, though? The second part of the question. Because Ralph and I, when we were talking about that film, were saying how as much as we like the film we couldn't give it above sort of a certain

score because it didn't have that extra layer I guess that we're looking for the only thing I contest with that is I don't think Punch Drunk Love is just trying to be a comedy that has way more going on than like fucking stepbrothers

or something that's trying to sell itself as a comedy yeah it's trying to be more than just that And with the Paul Thomas Anderson directing it, you expect a bit more, you know, and I think it was aiming to be more than just a fun romantic comedy, you know. And it nails some elements, yeah, absolutely. But if it wanted to be great, I think it had to do something a little extra. And I don't know what that little extra thing is, but once you see it, you know it. You know, yeah.

Right. And that's what separates, like, Scott Pulgram versus the world for me. that movie's hilarious and well made like punch drunk love but it's got that X factor where you're like yeah this is fucking interesting what is this I've never seen anything like this in my life yeah so

I've got a pretty interesting question um here from god's god speedy you Barry good name what are your guys's opinion on watching movies while under the influence of a mind altering substance do you guys believe some movies are enjoyable while high or drunk or should not be watched while sober in order to fully

appreciate? Absolutely. Everyone should watch movies on drugs all the time. It's a great experience. Obviously, don't do it all the time. Don't do it the first time you watch a movie, but it's fucking great. It makes every movie great. It makes everything else out of it, yeah.

Yeah, it is. You can see other things about it. Sometimes you get certain things out of it that you never know. I mean, drugs like marijuana will, you know, encourage your brain to think in ways that you normally wouldn't if you were sober. So there's some aspects that might stick out to you more about it or you might think of certain things in a different way or you might just be high and you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. But, you know, I get comments every once in a while of people saying things like, Rampage is a movie that I could only watch high, you know? Which is fair.

There's people that just plan to smoke a big bowl and then go to the theater and watch a shitty movie because that's, they want to see it high. I find an enjoyment out of watching bad movies when I'm sober, though, so, I mean, I don't need it. There's enjoyment and everything. Like, I watched Chips sober the first time I fucking hated it. And then for the review, I recorded myself watching it drunk. And I got, you know, it's a different experience. it's great but you don't think there's some movies that are

like made to be watched on drugs I guess kind of that's probably a good one actually I was thinking more of the Seth Rogen Stoner comedies isn't that the only reason they exist?

Oh yeah I haven't watched those high I usually like watching weird art films under the influence of of that kind of stuff but I mean that's just me. Yeah, I usually

don't go into films with the I guess goal of being intoxicated before I watch them. If I'm having like a party or something and like it's a movie watching party, then I'll be like yeah, I want to get like I'll choose movies that are good for watching when you're drunk

because it's a party also. Oh yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying I watch movies drunk alone. I'm not like an alcoholic. Like if I'm with people and it's a fun social environment and I'm like let's put on rampage and get fucking plastered yeah I think that's I think that's a great thing to do yeah it's all about you know what your personal experiences or your personal preferences are and you know every drug that exists affects different people differently everybody has a different brain you know so you know do whatever you want as long as you're

not harming other people and as long as you're careful and trying not to harm yourself Don't do meth or anything like that either. That's dangerous. Weed is okay. I don't know. Is LSD okay? I don't think so. LSD's probably dangerous.

I'm not an expert in LSD. Well, we could have a longer discussion about this if you really want. Because I have a lot of opinions on a lot of drugs, but I don't think... We'll save that for its own special episode. It might just be a little long-winded if we do that. Okay. Yeah. That's fair.

All right. So, I highly recommend it. Yeah, maybe if you're a critic for the New York Times, don't go in high as fuck if you're like going to analyze a film. Well, I think that that's okay as long as you say that you did it. If you want to write your review and be like, I was high, as long as you're honest about it, just don't pretend that you weren't. Yeah.

I feel like you should at least do both, though. That's what I'd do. Go ahead. Get him with both perspectives. Not just the high one. Yeah. Yeah, I watched Iron Man 3 drunk out of my mind. It was pretty funny.

Did you like it? It was funny. Okay. I got the humorous. What does Drunk Adam give Iron Man 3? Five or six. Don't worry about being, oh, five or six. Wow.

And that's on fucking alcohol. Wow. I mean, it's a Marvel movie. They're all like relatively the same. Okay. that's fair they're all of them are around that area for me so even black panther I gave black panther a five yeah

it deserves a nine or ten it's getting an Oscar consideration watch the one one best picture they're really campaigning for that did you guys see everyone on social media complaining about fucking black panther no why would you complain about fucking a black panther well there's a whole other reason for that but like Marvel is saying they don't well they invented this Oscar category right the best popular movie or whatever

and now and now Marvel and all the Marvel people are like we don't need like the second place trophy we're gonna consider Black Panther for you know we're gonna try to push it to get best picture and it's like who cares who cares about this fucking movie and who cares about this dumb award show I don't think anybody is expecting that it'll win best picture and if it does that would be the funniest thing on the planet but they are pushing for it to get a nomination which is funny because they're gonna get a nomination anyway there's 10 movies that get nominated of course they're gonna nominate Black Panther it doesn't matter what Disney and Marvel do they're gonna get nominated why not that's why there's 10 spots it's so you can throw in movies that are popular that people like that you know that you know aren't gonna win but you can pretend you know I don't

I don't think it was gonna get an Oscar nom I think it will now it's gonna get a nomination now it will because Oscars gave in a little bit No, I don't think they were. That's why they invented that best popular movie category so that Black Panther could get nominated for that. Well, that's so it can actually win an Oscar. Yeah, you think so? So you think they were going to nominate it for best popular movie and best picture?

I don't know what that was going to. They probably would nominate it for some, you know, like best effects or some shit. No. Well, yeah, best effects. It'll get a best picture nomination. I'm pretty confident about that. I don't know. Well, we'll see.

Yeah, we'll see. We can make a bet now. Oh yeah 20 bucks Delete your channel if you lose But too late for that Everybody deleted it All right next question

Pastor underscore James 69 69 69 69 says When you buy movies Do you prefer to buy them on DVD, digital Blu-ray or 4K and why I'm a collector kind of person and for things that I love,

I like to have the best possible way of watching it. I don't go out of my way for box sets unless it's something that I adore, like I really love. But if I want to own something and it's available on 4K Blu-ray, hell yeah, because that usually comes with a regular Blu-ray anyway.

So I'll only buy things digitally, like on iTunes if, let's say, I don't care about it enough and I just want to watch it and have the convenience to watch it right away. Or if it's not available in HD, on any other platforms. So a movie like James White is only on DVD but not Blu-ray, so I got it on iTunes because it's 720P there.

Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah, I'm with you. I try to get the best possible quality. Usually 4K Blu-ray. If they don't have the 4K Blu-ray, I just get the Blu-ray. I hate owning things digitally because you always lose track of it

and you got to remember fucking account names and passwords and it's not worth it. Really? Yeah. I like having a shelf of just movies and I pick for it. I know what I have. It's all organized by genre. I just pick out what I want. I love how you always say genre.

As if you're saying the name John. John Ra. John Ra. Yeah, his last name's Ra. John Ra. John Ra. Hey, John Ra. What about you, Alex?

I always try and go for digital myself because I don't like things taking up space. I try and get it on iTunes. although I'm finding it annoying at the moment because of the weird way 4K movies are being released like anything by Disney they won't release in 4K on iTunes who's here

really annoying so you have to buy it physically which is way more expensive here and takes up space and it's like noisy when it plays in the player first world problems but you know

iTunes convenience The 4K is not that big a deal For me anyway It's hardly noticeable On most television You reckon? Yeah

Well if you got it Like I got one really nice 4K TV But if I'm not watching it on that Then I honestly can't tell the difference Between the 4Ks and the I mean I still think 4K is important And you know You should be recording on the highest resolution you possibly can

But in terms of watching a movie 1080P will do I got like a 4K projector though So it's like a big screen I've got the BenQ Is it W1070 or what was it I don't know it's the new like 4K from BenQ Ben 1070 was the older model I think

I think this is the 1700 yeah W-1700 is what it is And I'm really happy with it That's yeah That sounds awesome One day I'm going to get a 4K projector One day you have to just have a blank wall or something

or like a sheet you pulled down you can get a screen yeah yeah like I don't know I have the space for it I have like a big like theater room basically that I've gotten set up just unfortunately the more things you have in your setup like all this like audio equipment

and the HDMI switchers and shit like the more things you add to it the more things that can go wrong so yeah so like it's been a long and painful process just getting it to work properly, but I think that it's fine now. But I'm happy with it. That's an awesome idea. I've forgotten about projectors for some reason. Oh, yeah.

That new model that I got is like a really affordable 4K 3D projector compared to what existed before it. Oh. Yeah. What's the, I mean, you can send it to me later, actually. Because I want to make like a nice home theater. Yeah. It's the, I think it's the W-1700 from Benke.

you. Yeah, because I want to make like a home theater, a nice home theater. It's one of my dreams, but you can't do it right now. Don't even have my own place right now. Okay, I got that. Next question. We've got a pretty deep question here from Fabio wants to die, who says, memes aside, do you think the Shrek films are good? This is an important one. Where do we land on the Shrek films? So we'll see in every Shrek film, yeah? Yeah, I haven't seen Shrek the halls.

Oh yeah, I haven't seen that one. Have you seen Shrek 4D? Is that a 3D? It's the one that's in Universal Studios. Oh, no, I haven't seen that. You also release it on DVD. Like, you can just watch it, but they also have it in Universal Studios. There's a Shrek's Forever After.

Is that the fourth one? Yeah, that's the actual fourth one, yeah. Are we counting Puss and Boots as well? I didn't see Puss and Boots. Okay. I saw, the last one I saw was Shreck's Fuss and Boots. Trek the third and I didn't like that one very much I did like the first two from memory and also from playing the first one on Beat Sabre recently yeah I think shrek 2 is like one of the

better sequels that exists out there for like animated films yeah shrek 2 is pretty good yeah I've rewatch trek 1 like a few months ago it's it's very dated um the music the pop music the early 2000s fucking it's ridiculous but I mean, it was okay. It's what it tries to be. You know, it's a successful, it ushered in an era of kids' movies with adult enough jokes that adults aren't completely bored watching them. You can bring your kids to the movie and you're not sitting through it and being tortured the entire time. I think that's pretty cool.

It also started the trend of dance numbers at the end of movies as well. I don't think so. animated movies. I think so. You don't think that happened before Shrek? I don't think so. I don't think it was the first. With like the pop music? Yeah, Toy Story 2 had it, didn't it?

It did? I think there's tons of movies where they danced at the end. I want to say Toy Story 2 might be the first one. Hmm, maybe. Anyway, the first Shrek. There is, there is an underlying sort of clever thing about the original Shrek, I reckon, being like the parody of all the Disney movies. It's a fuck you to Disney.

Yeah, exactly. I like that whole angle. Yeah, it is extremely dated. I can just picture the Matrix jokes and Oh yeah. Donkey says like. Smash mouth. It's cute, I guess.

It's all right. And they gradually just get worse. Trek 2, I remember being right, but I haven't seen that one. Since it came out pretty much. Yeah. Or whatever. Three is fucking awful. From whatever.

It is dreadful, yeah. I remember just completely uninspired and boring. Cash grab. And the fourth one, I don't remember at all. I think Rapun's... No, not what's his name? Rumpel's still skin was in the fourth one, right? Yeah, he sends Shrek into an alternate universe,

and Fiona's, like, really tough. Oh, yeah. Do you remember that? Fiona's tough? And there's, like, all these Shrex in the woods or whatever. Uh-huh. Oh, my God. I remember is they had, like, babies or something,

and it was really annoying. Holy shit, dude. You're bringing it back like these horrible memories. I feel like I'm in Jacob's Ladder. See like fucking visions. Do you have PTSD from Trek? Yeah, from Shrek 3 and 4, yeah. I see like Shrek's head fucking like spazzing out really fast, like in Jacob's Ladder.

Yeah, I can watch Trek 2 again. Is that your recommendation? That'd be great You said you wanted to do an animated movie Yeah, why not? You know what? Yeah, that's a good adult anime movie No

No, we need to bring it back We need to do some I got a bunch of Blu-rays of animated things We're doing a recommendation now, by the way, for next episode So if you want to Join the discussion,

next episode then watch this film before the next episode airs I haven't exactly decided what film I want to recommend I'm trying to whittle it down here we've got flip a coin well there's five of them okay go on real randomizer.com let's huh it's so difficult for me okay fuck it we're doing a 2009 stop motion animated film from France called a town called Panic or Panic

or Panic or Village. Oh, I've seen it. Oh, fuck! Yeah. Well, let's see. I'll edit that out. I'll edit that out. I'll edit that out.

Great movie though. No, no, no, don't edit it out. We'll just change it. Well, no, because then I don't want people to be disappointed that we're not discussing it. So I will edit it. Oh, yeah. So I'll just... No, we'll discuss both next week.

How about that, everybody? No. Well, I mean, we could. If you really want. If you want, we could. Yeah, we could. Why not? It's a good movie. Okay.

Actually, there's not much to say about it. Like, you know, me getting two picks at once, but, you know. No. Whatever. We could talk. There's not much to say about it, right? It's a funny movie. I love it.

But anyway, it's just one of those things that I like introducing to people. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, okay. We'll mention it then next, next episode. But instead, for the selection, I've got a 2009 stop motion animated film called Marion Max from Australia. Oh, great. Which you guys haven't seen. Cool.

Yeah, I haven't seen that. There we go. I wasn't sure. I didn't think a town called Panic was that popular. I thought that was kind of a little hidden gem for most people. No. I knew of it for some reason. Yeah, well, it was on my 2009 list,

so if either you watch that, then maybe, but... Yeah, that's how I heard of it. Okay. Well, I think this one was also on my 2009 list. But this is an Australian film. It has Philip Seymour Hoffman in it. It's a stop motion animated. Yeah, it's Philip Seymour Hoffman

in a lot of very recommendable movies. He's been in, what, three? That we've recommended it so far? Yeah, I don't know. Punch drunk love, happiness. And then this one. Yeah. Maybe something else out.

Someone in the comments can figure out he's winning. Anyway, yeah, we'll discuss this next episode. You don't have to look up much about it. I don't think there's much to spoil about it. It's more about the experience. But yeah, it's something that I think we'll have a good discussion on. And it's something that I think more people should see. So there you go.

And I guess we might also discuss a town called Panic. But mostly Mary and Max. Mm-hmm. You got it. Mostly. All right. Awesome pick. We did it.

Thank you guys for listening to this episode of SardanaCast. If you would like to support the show, or also if you would like to be able to listen to these episodes early, you can head over to sardonicast.com. And sign up $2 a month that gets you these episodes as soon as they're edited. So usually a few days before they're published publicly. You can also go to patreon.com slash sardonicast. That will do the exact same thing.

Thank you very much. And any things you want to say before we say bye-bye? Nope. Nope. Nope. That's it. Bye. Bye, everybody.

everyone. Bye.