Sardonicast - Sardonicast #17: Plot Holes, Mary & Max

Episode Date: September 28, 2018

Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/9vG73zS Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthe... Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovi... Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkind... Fan Art: https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/... https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/... https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/... 00:00 - Spider-Man PS4 05:40 - Plot Holes 19:00 - TIFF 34:00 - Nathan for You 36:10 - Mary and Max (SPOILERS) 1:09:35 - Oscars Popular Movie Award Dumped 1:10:15 - Q&A Ralph's Recommendation for Next Episode is Ben and Arthur (2002).

Three, two, one. Hey, how's it going, bros? My name is Pippa. Except I'm not. This is Sardana cast, and that was a lovely intro today. I think I did a really great job with that. How's it going? He did.

I'm Adam from your movie sucks. Who are these people that are with me right now? Ralph from Ralph the movie maker. And I'm Alex for my hate everything. We sound just enthused, aren't we? Yeah. I'm fucking tired. I don't know.

I flew back yesterday from Toronto Film Festival. And it's only like a three-hour time difference, but, you know. I understand you being tired, but Ralph, you quit Ralph, movie maker. Am I just playing Spider-Man all day long? Yeah. I was telling Alex and Adam, just I've been playing Spider-Man for, like, weeks. I think I have like 15 hours in it or something. Gosh.

Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. It's so cool. You guys should totally play it. I'm planning on playing it. It seems fun. Have you heard people being negative about it?

Like on the internet, they're saying like the writing is bad. Yeah, I've heard them. The cutscenes are bad? And it's like, are you really playing this for the story and the writing? Like, I skip all the cutscenes, the Mary Jane sequences. I'm like, okay, whatever. But like the meat of the game, which is, you know, being Spider-Man and punching people and webbing around the city, that shit is so much fun.

And they have like every suit ever in Spider-Man that you can just pick it as it's great. I've seen some articles complaining that he helps cops. And I've also seen a bunch of screenshot images posted to the gamers subreddit, G-A-Y-M-E-R-S subreddit that are just really funny poses, I guess. Oh, what's the issue with him liking cops? I don't know. Cops are bad.

Yeah. Cops are bad. That's the gist of it. Are you guys aware, like, the conflict between people and cops in America? Yeah. That's kind of a thing. I wouldn't say it's limited to America. Well, it's obviously not limited to America, but I'd say there's a, yeah.

The relationship between the police and the community is not all that strong. Yeah. America isn't the most shining example of, uh, a healthy police force. Let's just put it that way. Well, there's issues within the police force, but, you know, I'm not going to say, all cops are bad. Of course.

Yeah, individuals. And they're, yeah, and they're saving lives and stuff. And yeah, there are bad apples in that. And there's bad apples on both sides. I wouldn't be able to speak too confidently about it to say, like, yeah, all cops are great or anything like that. But I will say that people are individuals, you know, you have individuals. individuals who are assholes and individuals who aren't.

Damn. See, but see, like, people bring this into a Spider-Man game, and it's like... Yeah, like, what? It's a goofy fucking comic book hero, and he works with the police, because the police are nice to him. Yeah. Like, can't we keep it simple? Yeah, what if it's a, you know, it's a fictional representation of reality?

Yeah. Where the cops don't do anything bad. Mm-hmm. It's like a version of reality we want, or, like, you know, we have. have these people we look up to, like Spider-Man, who are nice and good in every way. And flexible. Yeah, flexible. I always found that super weird that, like, Spider-Man in particular, you look at any of the

covers for the comics, or, like, I had a Spider-Man wall calendar when I was younger, and it's just like, it's just like a musly dude being really flexible, doing, like, yoga poses in the air, you know? Yeah, it's cool. It's awesome. It's cool. I've always wondered why, because there's that one spider that bit him, right, and made him into Spider-Man. Has no one else ever been bitten by that same kind of spider anywhere else on the planet?

Because there's no other Spider-Man. It just got rid of him. Yeah, they just bit this one kid who also happened to be a genius and also know how to invent, like, web shooters. And then Jamie Fox- It's all very convenient. Jamie Fox falls into an electrical eel that and fixes his teeth. And then gets really sad. Yeah, that's what that does. Yeah.

And then Paul Giamatti's in a rhino's suit. Yeah. You guys are just complaining about... He was robbing plutonium. Stop being lame. Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. But that's what happens when you try to make like a Spider-Man realistic.

That's what those amazing Spider-Man movies are. And it's so fucking dumb and bad. It's creepy. You remember that scene where he's crawling all over the lizard and he's like acting like a real spider? And it's actually quite creepy to see him real life. I know. And it's like this emo douchebag is Peter Parker. It's like, where's this simple, nice kid that I liked, and he's kind of dorky?

You know, that's what the new movie got right. And that's what this game gets right, even though it's fucking corny. So. Yeah. No, yeah. I mean, like, yeah, Spider-Man in the comics, it's more faithful, I guess, the homecoming thing. Yeah. I still prefer Toby McGuire, even though I can't buy for a second that he's in high school.

Right. I don't buy that for a second, but I still prefer Toby McGuire. Oh, yeah. But they're different. kinds of Spider-Man too. Sam Ramey was going for a different thing, I think. Oh, I love to the Sam Ramey kids. Like, it's still true to Peter Parker.

He just did something new with it, I think. Yeah. How do you feel... These movies are awesome. How do you feel about plot holes? Plot holes? In general. Nice segue.

Well, Alex kind of attempted the segue, and then you just kept going, so I'm bringing it back. Oh. Sorry, I just love Spider-Man that much. Anyway. We know. plot holes. There's a relatively popular conversation on the internet happening where there are some

decent points being made and I and I do think that plot holes shouldn't be used as an excuse to avoid substantive conversation on film or you know meaningful discussion on themes or characters or craft but there's also some people that think that you literally should not talk about plot holes whatsoever and that plot holes are not even, that you shouldn't discuss them and that it's illegitimate criticism and that you're just stupid if you talk about plot holes. How do you feel about that? Well, who gets to decide if something's an illegitimate, illegitimate criticism or not? Yeah.

Is there a humbug? It's the dumbest thing. You're watching movies wrong, Ralph. Yeah, it's like someone has an opinion on a thing and nip picks bother certain people more than others and then you're going to go well my opinion is your opinion is illegitimate because my opinion is plot holes aren't that big a deal yeah it's like what the fuck are you arguing about just enjoy movies that you enjoy and shut up yeah like look at the three of us and we all rate movies on like a different scale and we will watch things from a different context but we don't

kind of condescend each other and put each other down for like you're watching movies wrong or you just don't get it like how you're supposed to watch movies what are you talking about? That's the point of the show is that three people with like totally different backgrounds from different countries

are all talking about these same movies with different perspectives that's what people want to listen to people don't care if you have different opinions on things I think we align fairly well though I mean we do have differences

of opinion for sure but you know I think we all pretty much I don't know there's differences yeah I just uh yeah Yeah, there's a, there's a, I, I really disagree with the idea of attempted objectivity in an argument. And I felt like there are qualities that are measurable that you could say are more objective than others or less objective. But when you're talking about someone's experience and you're saying like, this is objectively something that you should not be bothered by or this is objectively something that you should not be bothered by or this is objectively something that you would.

shouldn't be talking about because it is illegitimate criticism? I don't agree with that. Yeah, I agree with you there. Like, plot holes, it depends on the movie, too. There's some movies plot holes don't bother me. Depends on the tone of it. If it's trying to be like this ultra-realistic

crime film and cops do things that are stupid and that the police department would never do or criminals do shit like that, then it's a big deal, right? Because in a cop store you want a tight thriller. And if you don't have that, then the movie sucks.

If you do that in a superhero movie, it's not as important, right? I don't see why that makes people who complain about plot holes and think that that's important to their experience, any less legitimate, though, you know? Like, if you don't like critics

or personalities that talk a lot about plot holes or that kind of thing, then you don't have to, like, watch it. There are plenty of critics out there that I don't align with and I don't watch everything that they say about plot holes. Mm-hmm. There's an argument that people are making that plot holes are absolutely necessary. And so they group in every degree of plot holes no matter the context and say, well, this is just how the movie has to be. And there's no way around it because otherwise it would be boring. When I kind of disagree with that, because there's there's, you have to be able to look at the context of something in a film, right? You have to be able to, to, to,

go like, okay, is this just because it's a horror movie? Like horror movies, you have to have some sort of suspension of disbelief and be like, okay, well, realistically, there has to be an excuse why they're in danger. And some movies are able to do it better than others. And, you know, it's not even absolutely necessary for that to be in a horror movie, but you kind of have to forgive it in some sense. But science fiction has that too. Like, they invent technologies that don't exist now to make plot things work.

It's like, okay. But I think that, I think that it's a different story when the script is so needlessly transparent, where very clearly there's a checklist of the beats that the character needs to hit before the end of the film. And the rest of the script is filled in using excuses why the character is in a bad place. You know, we need a conflict in the second to third act transition, and these characters need to hate each other and then rebuild their friendship. And there's some films that put a lot of effort into how that takes place and plant little seeds in the beginning and and And everything flows so naturally and you're like yes, this is totally something that would happen. This is totally something these characters would do I remember that you know the the Chekhov's gun from the beginning and it wasn't even obvious, but it totally makes sense

And then there's other films and in scripts where they literally just don't give a fuck and it's so obvious that they just they just farted it out and it's like okay these characters need to be doing this now and I don't even care how I'm going to write it that way. I think that the people that put that kind of effort into their writing process should be appreciated because that is an effort that they're making. And I disagree with the idea that all plot holes are created equal and that we should be ignoring those efforts being made by talented people in the industry who actually care about that as well. I feel like it delegitimizes them and makes them underappreciated when when you're saying that their efforts shouldn't even be acknowledged and that it's just like oh every plot hole is fine i i really disagree with that i don't understand why it is to be

so extreme like surely it is just a case-by-case basis you don't have to say that it's not a legitimate thing to even mention like of course films have plot holes everyone makes fun of them in pop culture in famous films for decades i think like context is is the most important thing like You wouldn't make fun of Star Wars for the stupid rules they have in their goofy space fantasy compared to a film like the first man, you know, which is all about a realistic depiction of a similar kind of space thing or whatever. But like, I don't understand why this is even necessary, like even to bring up to begin with, you know, like, okay, this is such a argument. in 2018 about film thing so I just shut up god's sake they're more important things talk about well there's also like there's an attack on channels that they're just that they're just the nitpick channel for movies like cinema sins how do you guys feel about stuff like that

where the whole channel is just nitpicking I feel like like you know they they have a place on YouTube and you know they have every right to be making that an audience clearly and yeah I mean it's it really I don't really consider cinemasons to be substantive content or legitimate criticism for the most part and I don't really think that they consider themselves to be that either I think they're just making videos that get views which is fine or there's they're like screen junkies where it's kind of like a more of a comedy thing than actual criticism

Because they do it to good and bad movies. They do it to Mad Max. They do it to, I don't know. What's a bad movie? They might have done Wishapon. I don't know. I don't watch it. My channel is something that kind of has both of those qualities.

Like I point things out and hold things under a microscope and try to really understand how the world works and will criticize it for comedic purposes. And then I try to communicate like, okay, this is not something that ruins the movie. but it's something I'd like to point out. It's something that I like to think about. And it's something that, you know, if you're a fan of the content that you're watching, the movie that you're watching, you should be thinking about these things. And if it doesn't ruin it for you, then great. That means the movie did something well, right? But I mean, if all that the movie has to offer is the story making sense and it doesn't, then it's like, okay, well, what does it have left?

It's all about context. Well, plus, plus clearly a lot of people think it's fun to nitpick things. That's why these videos get views and people do it on their own and they laugh at so bad they're good movies. Because they enjoy nitpicking. It's fun, right? You don't have to hate a movie.

You can nitpick at things that you think are plot holes and stuff. But you could still enjoy the movie despite those things, right? But you're just not thinking about the themes of Neil Breen's films. You're not thinking about the themes of Cool Cat. There's nothing wrong with Cool Cat. You're ignoring the themes Significant things like the acting and the weight shot and writing Right little nitpicks

That was all intentional Yeah sure You don't get it Yeah Daddy Derek is the next Kubrick He clearly knows what he's doing Bravo Bravo Daddy Derek Good job

Bravo Savage I guess we are all pretty much on the same page here I think a lot of people are Yeah I just I just think it's a little elitist to try and delegitimize somebody else's personal experience, you know? Like, I've only ever made videos talking about my personal experience. I've never been like, you have to feel this way or you should feel this way, you know. Yeah, people just assume that.

Yeah, it's weird. When you attack something that people really love, especially if you say that you didn't care for it much yourself, cough, Mission Impossible Fallout cough, then people get really fucking heated and upset, which is just so strange. I know. I enjoy different kinds of movies. It's art, man.

It's the problem when people try to turn the artwork of making movies into like this measurable science or mathematics when it really isn't as simple as that. There are a lot of different processes go into making a movie. And, you know, plot holes are one small part of a very big, picture. So just focusing on that seems like a weird thing to me. Yeah, it depends on what the movie has to offer too. Because there's some films where the filmmaking and presentation is just so on the bar surface level that everything I have to say

about, you know, the acting, the lighting cinematography, the music, everything I have to say about it could be summed up in two minutes. And I'm not going to waste anybody's time trying to create some grandiose poetry out of saying the same thing and make it feel. fill up as much time as possible. And after I've already said everything I want to say about the actual qualities of the filmmaking or even the, if we want to talk about the themes, yeah, sure. After all that, if the only thing left is plot holes and I have like 40 minutes of shit to say about that, I don't see what's wrong with that.

I don't think that means that I'm ignoring the other aspects. I think that that just means that there's a lot to talk about in certain movies. There's so, like, the film amusement. There's so many things about that that just like destroy the plot. There's like it doesn't make any sense and that's part of why I love it is when you really delve into it and dig into what the intent was for the story made from the people that made it versus what was actually happening or what was shown or the motivations of characters or how they how quickly they teleported from one place to another or anything like that like that's part of

what makes the experience entertaining for me it's bringing a new light to something that otherwise wouldn't have it you know Yeah, exactly. It's fun. You have a great time doing it. Millions of people clearly like it. Almost a million. Well, yeah. I mean, that's not counting cinema sins and screen junkies and, you know, other channels that do it. Movie Bob, right? That's 100,000 people, 150,000 people, DSLR guide. That's like 750,000 people. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's that time of the show where Ralph just goes in.

in on our two enemies. I'm a conscientious objector. I'm a pacifist. So I was at Toronto Film Festival. It was a lot of fun. I was there for two weeks. Basically, this is the first time that I've gone for the duration of the entire festival. In order to get your tickets ahead of everybody else, you have to order them in, like,

packages so you're committing to a set amount of tickets before the schedule's even out so you didn't you don't even know what movies are playing and you have to commit to how many tickets of things you think you're going to see which is yeah kind of annoying but this year I got everything I wanted to and nothing sold out before I was able to get it so that was great that's a plus saw a lot of good shit uh Roma the new Alfonso Coran movie was awesome I'm looking for it so yeah um how about climax Climax was my favorite from the festival. That fucked me up.

Oh, wonderful. That was... Oh, great. That was... I can't wait to see it. Fucked. Yeah, I don't know... I have to imagine that it's still as easy to appreciate if you haven't had, like, terrible

drug experiences. Because there is an element to the film of, like, cinematography that is just, like, mind-blowing. Like, some of these shots go on for, like, probably 15. minutes and what's insane about it is like it's only an hour and a half long it feels like longer but not in a bad way because the whole thing is a fucking nightmare it's insane oh wow it's super fucked up and it like it put me in a in a uncomfortable mindset for like the next day or two i can't wait that's the one about lSD right yeah it's like something they've been laced with it or something yeah is it like an accurate depiction yes

But here's the thing, though, the film never, based on the plot description and also based on him having directed Enter the Void, you would almost expect to have some sort of visual replication of LSD. You would almost expect for there to be like weird noises and like things shifting around and like computer generated effects and morphing and all that. None. Yeah. Zero. It's all about the characters. how they're reacting and it's all so perfect in how it's executed it's it's insane it's like exactly how people act on hallucinogenic drugs when they've taken too much and didn't know that they

took it yeah are just like inexperienced people just freaking out and like the worst possible uh setting for it too well not worst possible i mean there's worse settings where you could do hallucinetic drugs, but it's just, it's a, it's a terrifying trip nightmare, honestly. So should I see it with my family? You could. Oh, okay. I mean, there's nothing stopping you. I don't know what your family's like.

I've never, I've never met your family. They'd love to watch an LSD nightmare like most families would. Say your little brother. Yeah, let's go. I'll bring the dog. We go to the theater. nice bag of popcorn Anything else of note that you saw

Well that was my favorite Yeah Roma is either second or third Probably third I think second place would be Museo M-U-S-E-O With Gail Garcia Bernal And this is from the director of Gueros

Who made a film that was almost on my 2015 list but didn't make it I watched it twice to see if it would be It had a lot of like a lot of promise in that director, but I just didn't think that the film was that great. And then this one, it's just like he, he went all out. He made something very creative. Every new scene was like an excuse to, you know, show things in a new way. Like there's different directing styles almost throughout parts of the movie.

It's very vibrant and alive. It's very funny. It's very well acted. It's it's like it's almost like a Kind of a stereotypical Heist story But the presentation makes everything once again I did see first man also. It was really good

Oh nice Oh cool yeah, I'm looking forward to that is it as good as jealous right? No It's not oh wow I wouldn't say it is no Whatever I mean like it's very different very different yeah I'm glad he's doing new things still really good is there's there really good is there's there jazz in it? Is there a jazz school? No, it's not a musical. Is J.K. Simmons in it? Nope. Does he yell at Neil Armstrong? Nope. And then I guess just like two more that I'll mention, because these are the ones that I gave high ratings.

The Sisters Brothers with Dr. Steve Brole and Jake Jelinehall's in it and Joaquin Phoenix. and that was a really bizarre and entertaining dramatic movie. It was kind of like fucked up at parts. It advertises itself as a comedy in the marketing material. I don't know if I'd call it a comedy. And I think that that's what's putting a lot of people off. It's a little a little polarizing, I guess. And I think that's part of why is just the way that it was marketed.

But really, really great stories. really great acting very fun I think you guys would love it and then finally I guess just widows the new Steve McQueen which is yeah windows which is the least Steve McQueen movie Steve McQueen has made but still really great I don't think it's as great as his other three movies but still like an eight from me so there's a bit of cheese in it feels a little like stereotypical at points but like it it makes up for it for sure I'm jealous man you've seen some good stuff you have you guys seen many Steve McQueen films you've seen like shame or 12 years of shame and 12s you've seen all of them except hunger yeah yeah same okay I've seen that shot

though the the 20 minute yeah that's insane yeah unfortunately there's like there's nothing that impressive like as impressive as that in the in the new film but oh yeah not that a movie needs that to be great, but... It's Steve McQueen's version of a Normie film. Okay. Interesting. So, like, a really, really great Normie movie. A really well-made Norma movie.

Awesome. So I saw, like, 25-ish different movies at the festival. Those are the ones most notable. And then, yeah. What's the worst one? Paul Dano's new movie, Wildlife, was the worst one I saw. Oh yeah? Was it bad or was it just the worst one? It was really bad. It was I mean I saw the predator at Tiff

So yeah, yeah It was just it was a mess it looked like shit There were no likable characters It was one of those movies where you're just like angry the whole time watching it like who am I supposed to be attached to here? Like who's this story being told through? You know? Mm-hmm. Yeah, so people were liking that one, but oh yeah, yeah, I don't know why, but I'll talk about it more and I'm going to be making quickies for everything anyway,

so I don't want to get too into detail. People like everything at festivals. There's always a positive reaction. It's not a good place to gauge. Yeah, there's like... The actual audience reaction. Yeah, the new Xavier Dolan movie on IMDB, I guess from people watching it.

Oh, it used to be an 8.7. Now it's a 6.6. It's got a 28 metascore. Oh, no. Really? Yep. It wasn't very good. It was a fucking mess. It was such a mess. Oh my god. That's a shame. Yeah, I'll talk about that more for sure. Oh, so sad. It was a dumpster fire. Still made mommy. Have you guys ever been to any film festivals? Not really. I've been to the ones where they show my movies. That's it. Yeah. See, I would have thought you'd have been to be.

to a couple, Ralph. No. I'm in the same, but I've never been to one. I don't even know how, where you even begin, or what the process is there, if there even is one. My school has free screenings for students all the time, like way before movies come out,

so I usually go to those, so I don't go to the festivals, you know, and those are free. So. The festival experience is a very fun and unique one. Yeah, I want to do it one day. I feel everybody should do it. Especially in New York,

there's like a ton of great ones that I've just never been to. too. Yeah, Tribeca or whatever it's called. Yeah, Tribeca, there's New York Film Festival. Yeah. Yeah, geez, what's wrong with you? There's so much opportunity. Are there any good ones in the UK?

Berlin's supposed to be good. I know that's not in the UK, but that's not like too far away, isn't it? You have to go into Europe, I guess. Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's a London Film Festival or something. It's just not something that's like, I guess, reputable on the world stage. that much like nobody talks about it

I don't know there might be something that's just like going over my head it's all about like the selection and how it's run a lot of film festivals

yeah you're close to some of the best ones though Alex yeah you're in like the best place for it so who you're in a good you're in a good spot too Alex because you're close to France

which has Khan and you're close to Venice and you're close to true but yeah how do you even get like tickets to it can is invite only so you'd have to like

apply email him, Alex. Like Adam said, yo, it's me, I-H-E. I want to go to Khan. I let me in. You show up with like a microphone. Hey, what's up?

It's me. I hate everything. Jerry Seinfeld's there in a B costume, promoting B-movie, too. And then, God, what did the emoji movie? Who's the fucking guy in that? T.J. Miller? Didn't he dress up as an emoji during the premiere or something?

I know. Oh my god. Oh yeah, and then a bunch of emojis on it. Oh yeah, yeah. And then a bunch of emojis danced with him. God, what these fucking guys do to promote these movies? I got to, I got to respect it. It's funny.

Because I mean, like, Cannes, can is such a serious business film festival. Like, it's, yeah. It's way more serious than any, any of the other ones I've attended, whether you want to consider that a good thing or a bad thing. But, like, there's so many,

there's so many, uh, people just doing, like, bidding wars for studios there that, like if you're going to promote something, you might as well do what it can. Because it's like, it's an industry festival, basically. It's like way more about the industry than the public,

which is why it's an invite only. It's very prestigious. The entire time I was there, I felt terrified that I would do something wrong and my badge would get taken away. So I behaved. I was a good boy. So when you go to one,

how does it work because you get your ticket, but then she'll go to a... so many people. Oh, right. I'm just wondering how they organize you actually getting into screenings and having everyone organized and not overflowing and stuff. So for Toronto Film Fest, you buy your tickets as early as possible. The way you do that is by getting those ticket packages when they're on sale and also having a membership bumps you up before the public ticket packages. And then you have a window of time that they assign for you shortly after the schedule's out where you can assign the screenings you want. And so I spend like an entire day. This year it was like a 13 hour

process of just like going through the different films and being like, okay, what do I want to see? Where can I fit it in? What will conflict with, you know, the other showings? How much time to get from one theater to the other blah, blah, blah. Make sure to make sure you want to be lining up like an hour early unless it's reserved seating. But they only started reserve seating like in the past two years. and that's only for certain theaters and then you want to leave like a good 20 minutes of shit happens time in there

before you add that on to the end of the movie because there might be a Q&A with the director and cast there that you might want to attend or they might start the movie a bit late and then yeah if it's reserved seating just show up half an hour early and that's when the line will be letting in

if it's not reserve seating then show up an hour early at least depending on what the show is and just wait in line and then they let people in and it's a gay old time. Nice. Yeah. Toronto Film Festival is

the one that I've been to that feels the most alive. It's a very, a very fun experience. It's for the public sort of thing. Like, there's a vibe to it that makes it feel so energetic.

They play the same commercials before every movie, pretty much. So, like, L'Oreal will sponsor the festival, and then they have the same L'Oreal ad before every one of the movies. And so with so many people attending the festival going to so many different shows, a lot of them just wind up, you know, you see the same ad so many times you're going to want to make it more entertaining. So people clap along to the L'Oreal commercial. You can tell who in the theater has been to, like, the other shows, or, like, people will call out the lines that are next coming up in some of the commercials. and when they show the anti-piracy warning,

everybody goes, yarr really loudly in the theater. Depending on the show. Depending on the show. Sometimes if it's a movie where it's just a bunch of old people there, then it's like, you'll be the only one saying it,

but it's kind of funny. Yeah. The festival has a huge energy to it that I have not really seen at Vancouver Film Festival. I didn't really see it can because it was just so serious business. I would like to go to Sundance.

that's one that I haven't been to that I would like to. Yeah, I want to go to Sundance one day. I've heard good things about Fantastic Fest, but that kind of conflicts with, like, it happens at the same time as Vancouver Film Fest and, like, right after Toronto, so it's just like, I don't know when I'm going to be able to fit that in,

but it would be nice. There are no good film festivals in L.A., right? Which is funny, because, you know, that's where Hollywood is. There's the one that Nathan Fielder made up, so he could give himself an award for that farting movie. Oh, yeah? Yeah, like East Los Angeles International Film Festival or something. And he just created it for himself?

Yeah, to legitimize his film. Oh, yeah, he didn't want to... What's the farting movie? No, yeah, his movie was the one where he got a Johnny Depp impersonator. What's the word? I'm looking for a different word? Yeah, impersonator? Okay, Johnny Depp impersonator.

He's impersonating Johnny Depp. Yeah. and he tricked a bunch of people into appearing in his movie for free where the goal was that they would all just buy a bunch of shit from the gift shop and then after a lawyer was like, that's illegal unless this is a real movie. And he's like, well, I guess this needs to be a real movie now. So he created a film festival and submitted it and gave himself to the award. Wow.

That's hilarious. Have you guys not seen that much of Nathan for you? I have seen quite a bit of it. Oh, you got to watch all of it. I saw the one where you sit like 30 maids in a house because he wanted to clean the house is like really quick. And so they all just go in and like two minutes later. Like five minutes cleaning.

Yeah, five minute cleaning. That's it. That was really funny. There's the one where you like impersonated some other guy and then walked a tightrope to impress this girl. The hero. That was, yeah, the hero one. I've seen quite a few of them.

Oh, they're so good. He's really funny. He's really funny. He's really funny. It's one of my favorite shows. Nathan for you, everybody. Yeah, great show from what I can, from what I know. I've only seen a few episodes.

Were you going to say about Spider-Man? Whatever. It's just on your brain. Yeah, I'm just always thinking about Spider-Man. Mm. Beautiful Boy. Yeah, beautiful boy. You want to talk about the movie that you recommended?

Beautiful Boy, starring Steve Carrell and Timothy Shalameh? No. I was referring. to Mary and Max directed by Al Franken who directed it Adam Adam Al Franken

Yeah so we're going to start talking about a movie that was recommended last episode called Mary and Max if you would like to be a part of this discussion and understand what we're talking about and also not be spoiled for the film you should probably watch it

it's a really great movie I think most people enjoy it and yeah so spoiler warning and here we go. Marion Max is an Australian film. It is stop motion animated. It's from 2009. It is his Adam Elliott's directorial debut,

I guess, in a feature length sense. He did some shorts before this. And it's basically just an endearing, kind of like heartwarming, dramatic story about a little girl in Australia that decides to write a letter to a random person in America, and it turns out this random person is a man with Asperger's syndrome in New York, played by Philip Seymour Hoffman,

and they have a very unique friendship that is a joy to watch. What did you guys think about this film? I loved it. It was absolutely impactful. Awesome. Wow. I really liked it I'm if you on some things

but we'll discuss it I think it's really good though yeah that affection you have for a fantastic planet I think is what I feel towards this movie I thought it's just brilliant yeah yeah well this movie is a very miserable tone so

I can see why he liked it you described it as not miserable heartwarming it's heartwarming and heartbreaking at the same time it's better sweet yeah a bittersweet but it's not unflinching.

No, it is unflinching even. It's not scared to show you things that you don't expect, especially in this form, which a lot of the time is associated with kind of children's entertainment if you remove things like Anomalisa, which we've all seen. Especially with the kind of wacky character designs. Yes, Anomalisa didn't really have exaggerated. Yeah, exactly.

Anomalises are much more sort of straightforward kind of character drama or this kind of embraces the the cartooniness of the fact that it is animated and it's goofy, it's got a sense of humor, like a witty sense of humor about it. Yeah, but it's still upsetting a lot of times. I love what they did with the color where New York City was like all gray and then where Mary was was brown, lots of brown colors. That was cool. The animation is fantastic and the use of color is fantastic.

Yeah, the animation in particular is, I want to say it might be the best stop motion animation I've seen. I was looking through like lists of stop motion animated movies that I have seen. And sure, if you, just in terms of spectacle, I guess something like Kubo is impressive, but it's lacking literally everything else. Yeah. I think as a whole, it really embraces the kind of animated nature of what animation lets you achieve. You know, it has, it takes full advantage of it is what I'm trying to say. You know, it has the goofiness. But yeah, it has, and unlike something like Anomalisa, which is also brilliant, it kind of shows you more than just, you know, that film's kind of a, what's the word, like a isolated,

kind of singular story where this one is showing you lots of different environments and for every little detail and story they're cutting away to different bits of B-roll with all these crazy little miniatures and built-up sets and everything it's quite frenetic in how much you're just shown constantly in this immense detail that they've put into everything I think just in that regard the animation it's like he really understood um adam elliott like the the potential of animation and the best way to utilize it to tell a story like this. Yeah, it was very detailed. All the sets are very detailed.

The city streets all had just little pieces of trash, and it just felt dirty. Like, they got everything right in terms of that stuff. So you would say that this is an accurate representation of New York? Well, it's obviously goofy, but it captures the spirit of New York, the underground. rainy fucking night New York it captures that really well you know yeah most movies shot in New York don't even sell it as well as this movie does

yeah so like a very good holiday location is it no this movie well it depends when you go yeah no neither is Australia Australia is a dump too especially where she was her mother the the character designs are all great but her mother was like just this ratchety fucking her eyes are always squinty and she always looks tired. Constant wobbling. There's always a cigarette hanging out of her mouth. It's fucking awesome. I like how the film had something to say as well, though. It wasn't all just like a goofy animation with this carefree kind of story. At the end of it all, it's about how everyone has like flaws. Every single character in the film pretty much has some kind of singular flaw that is

pulling them down in some way. By the end, it's kind of their journey of how to over it and that it's okay to be flawed in some way. Everyone has their quirks and that doesn't have to weigh you down and that overcoming it and accepting it. It's like an important part of life and all that. I like that aspect. Mary's constantly trying to get rid of them instead of just embracing them and it ends up ruining her life trying to get rid of them. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I also like the depiction of Asperger's in it, which I thought was really like a lot of movies don't even tackle that. And this movie did in a very interesting and it felt authentic to me. Knowing people who have Asperger's and autism, it felt authentic to me.

I don't know. It says it was based on a true story. So is it the letters, are those like real letters that they just animated? Or were those like doctored up later on? Apparently, the true story is based on the director has been, like had a pen pal in New York for like 30, 40 years or something. and he based the kind of loose idea of that. I think he still crafted an original narrative around it,

but I think the core idea was based around that. I was just wondering if the letters themselves were the real letters that he just took pieces of and animated them. That'd be funny, I don't think that's the case. I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. Well, it felt like that to me because I think this is one of the complaints I have with it. The letter parts where the characters were just,

especially on the Max character. His letters went on for a little too long. And it got to a point where I felt the story was just stretched out. Because really not a lot happens plot-wise. And for me, everything just felt kind of slow and stretched out way more than it needed to be. Even though the movie's super short. Yeah, but that's just how I felt. I think the letters just went on for too long.

I disagree because I feel as though the letters were the story. Like I felt like the individual beats of the plot where it's like, okay, well, now she wrote this book and it didn't work out or like she, you know, met this guy. Those were just things that were necessary to have like an overarching kind of narrative and help give the characters more to talk about within their letters. But I think the heart of the story, the meat of the story, is within the letters themselves, really. Like, that's what I get out of it. It's just an odd way to structure a story that you have in narrator explaining the first 20 minutes, and then you have a letter that goes on for 10 minutes, and then the narrator keeps going, and then there's another letter.

It's just very odd, you know, and I'm not sure if I liked it. I have a theory about the narration. I thought the narration was actually really effective because I think it can be quite annoying because it's like a crutch when you mishandle but I thought it may have actually been used so much to sort of help the animation in terms of they're not having to constantly lip sync all the time

like dialogue which would add way more like time consuming kind of stuff to the production and it already took something like 52 weeks just to do just to shoot so it might have been like a budgetary thing, but I don't know. I don't think it didn't bother me. I just thought, oh, that's a clever way of getting around that issue

of how time-consuming animation is. I get that, but I feel like they could have cut the narration down and I wouldn't have been lost at all. Because I think the animation is so good at telling the story that you don't even really need a narrator for all of it or most of it. Did you guys feel that? I mean, clearly you didn't. No, the narration helped a lot.

Yeah, is them writing a letter, which is them kind of spewing out everything they're thinking, but then in the times where they're not communicating with each other or reading letters or writing letters, that's when the narrator will come in and kind of explain how they're feeling. Yeah, but it was constant. It was like constant explaining what they're feeling, letters explaining what they're feeling, then back to narrator explaining what they're feeling. And I'm not, there was a point where it got kind of grading for me. That's just what I love about the movie.

Max's letter felt like. Okay, I mean, that's that's your right, but Max's letter went off for like 20 minutes and I was like, oh my God, all right, God, Max, just send the fucking letter, let's move on. No, I just love these characters and I love exploring them. I love how much detail we get, not just from the characters themselves, but also from the narrator. Like there's so many uses of simile where they use other ideas to kind of describe. how they're feeling like, you know, the first one off the top of my head doesn't really have to do with feeling, but her

eyes were like muddy puddles or whatever. Like there's always these weird kind of quirky examples that they give to try and describe something and make kind of like a parallel. And they did that a lot with their emotions too, which I really liked.

And those times it was very effective, but I think there were other times it wasn't really. I also didn't think it was that funny for me. I thought was chuckleworthy sometimes but nothing that funny. Yeah, I didn't find it hilarious. I just, I liked the tone it was going for. Kind of the, the humor from details people obsess over in reality or little quips people make in reality.

It kind of grounds these characters and that's why they are so believable. Like you're, you're not too keen on Max's letter going on for so long, but that's what I liked about it because you could really see that this guy has nothing and suddenly he has this one thing to really like harness his mind into. Yeah. It does help explain and it's even part of the plot with that that is how his mind works and going into this immense detail onto these completely irrelevant things like he's just he's describing something and then all of a sudden he's like what do you think of this word? These are my favorite words and it's just like this really genuine depiction of this character

who's so lonely and just looking for a friendship. You would always end the letters with like 10 questions. What's your favorite? What's this favorite? I like that part of it. That's why it's realistic in terms of how it kept going, in terms of how they kept writing back to each other and responding to each other.

They were always so interested in each other's lives. They were always looking for that form of connection where they could have this kind of conversation with somebody else and they haven't been able to up until that point. I don't know what's. It was just the way I didn't like the story was paced. I just didn't like the back and forth of it. Of just going from a letter to another letter to a narration.

I didn't find it that interesting. Well, maybe you're watching movies wrong, Ralph. Maybe I'm just watching movies wrong. I think there's just, there's a lot of, like, loles in it. I think there's a lot of slow points. Yeah, lulls. For the lulls, yeah. Pretty lulsy movie.

Yeah. Keck. I just, yeah. But I still really liked it. Again, I agree with everything you guys say for the most part. It looked great. I didn't like the music, actually. I just remembered that.

How did you guys feel about the music? I like the music. You did? Yeah. I was researching because I'd heard a lot of it before. It was from some, they used a lot from, what are they called, some penguin band from like the, 80s or 90s.

I think they used the main song in some adverts I'd heard it before. I thought it kind of fit that character as the Mary her kind of theme. Yeah, I liked it.

What did you not like about it? I don't know. I didn't like it. I did like the use of music in that one part where he was type in the letter and they played classical music behind him. The song is literally called

the typewriter, by the way. Oh yeah? Awesome. Well, that part was great. The rest of the music, not so much. I assume most of it was original compositions for the movie, and those I didn't like so much. I felt like tone-wise, the songs worked perfectly for the film. I feel like they emphasized the emotions that were intended by the film and helped bring a lot of energy to it in some places. and I guess my biggest issue with the music would just be how many times they played the main theme. Because even just not including the different variations, like there were some transitionary pieces, I guess, where they kind of reprised it in different ways.

But even if we're only talking about like the piano part of da-da-da-ba-da-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-da-da-da. That I counted six times on this watch. And I was like, I mean, like, I had always felt like it was too many times, and this time I actually bothered to count, because I knew I would want to talk about it. Yeah, six times too much. I feel like it probably should have been like three. Maybe six. Three would have been fine.

I didn't like that song, so not even once for me, but twice would have been tolerable. Yeah, if you don't like that song, I could see that getting really annoying. Yeah. Yeah. There were a few things like that. His letters, I don't know. I don't want to sound like a downer. Like I hated the movie.

I thought it was so good, but there were those things about it that took away a lot that I think. I mean, I think it's more personal for me too because clearly those things don't bother most people. It didn't bother you guys. But, yeah, I just feel like there's something missing, keeping it from being great for me, you know? Yeah, I know the feeling. Excuse me. Speaking of burbs, there are lots of, like, farts. Oh, yeah.

Pooke jokes. Constant farting and pooping. I just saw your letterbox review, I.E. You said, I liked all the farts. That's what I mean about how... It does embrace that kind of goofy character thing they're going for with the animation. Like I watched a bit of the... What's his face?

Adam Elliott's short that I think won the Oscar in like 2000. Harvey Crumpet? Yeah, yeah. And that is very similar in terms of that kind of thing, with the very over-the-top expressive, goofy farts and noises and stuff like that. I like that kind of stuff, man. It's what makes animation so, like, unique to me. Yeah, I love the, how it's kind of, like, juxtaposing in a way,

because you get those, and then at the same time, you're dealing with, like, alcoholism, suicide, you know, like, all of these very... adult conversations and it helps you know it helps keep the movie from being

needlessly gloom you know it doesn't need to be an entire depressing experience it can be a bit of both you know it has a lot of heart to it and uh watching it this time I was

you know I went into it with the thought of like I wonder I wonder if this could be considered for kids and you know quickly I was just like nah it's not a not a kid's movie at all really yeah not i mean i don't know what age you should watch it but i could have to be like i don't comprehend the emotions going on 12 really like i think you can't comprehend the emotions these people are feeling oh yeah i guess because the little girl i mean i mean this movie's dealing with like depression and and fucking a pill addiction you know lots of heavy stuff that i think you can't

really process till you're 18 or you know a little older you're that old? Yeah. I mean, more the emotional. To actually get something out of it, like I think anyone under 18 can enjoy it. But to... I think they'll get something out of it. They'll relate to Mary, wouldn't they? They will enjoy animation. Yeah, and Mary.

Up to the point where she... Her book fails and then she becomes depressed and thinks about suicide and all that. I don't think you need to personally experience like a volume addiction to get something out of it, you know? Oh no, but I'm just saying like when you're young, you don't

understand the just the emotional baggage that comes with that, you know, to fully understand that. I think you're aiming a little high with 18, though. Okay. Okay. 12's about right. 12? Okay. Yeah.

I mean, sure, you'll get more out of it the older you get. Let's negotiate. Say 14. You'll always get more perspective as you age ideally. Yeah. But that's, I don't think that, you know, someone who's younger couldn't get anything out of it. you know there's times to get out of it kind of thing I would have loved like I loved being shown these kind of adult themes when I was around 13 12 even if I didn't

properly understand them it was like I don't like the idea of of holding back things like that just because they're bad and negative like what why protect things are like that it does exist that these things are very real yeah why shelter them like no I'm not saying shelter them but like you're you're gotten You got like fucking drug addiction and stuff like that in this movie. And there's, you don't understand that kind of shit when you're 12 years old. You know, you need someone to explain it to you. Yeah, hopefully, right.

So I'm saying like you can't really understand what something like that is like until you're older. Here's the thing, though. You say someone needs to explain it to you, but does the film not do a good job explaining it? Like, it's pretty obvious. Yeah, the film does a good job. How it's presenting it, like that, you know, her, drinking sherry or whatever. Like this is her priority in life.

It consumes her. It shows Mary growing up and falling into the same patterns after being severely depressed. Like it's very clear that these vices that both of these characters have are out of self-loathing and just, you know, having bad experiences in their life and wanting to escape from reality. And I think I don't think you need to be, I don't think you need to have this explained to you before watching the movie to understand that that's happening in the movie, you know? Like the film itself can teach you that if you don't understand that already Okay I think the movie explains the all right

This is a stupid discussion on that I'm just saying maybe 12 year I'm saying you 12 year olds might not enjoy it because it's about shit they might not understand That's what I'm saying And we can negotiate let's say 14 No 13 you want to negotiate down to 13 13's lowest I'm going If we don't have to agree I mean we can just disagree

Okay fine Yeah 12 12 it is Okay I really I really I really love Like you guys mentioned the color The color palette of the film And I think that that was also super well done I love how not only is it very rare to see animated or even stop motion animated films

With such interesting and intentional color palates. But I also like how it's kind of metaphorical in a way. How, you know, it should be pretty noticeable. Like, yes, the more that he's interacting with her, the more color is brought into his world.

You know, she's literally giving life into his experience, if that makes sense. So the light of his life, yeah. Yeah. And he does the same thing to her. When he sends over the dolls, whatever they're called, they're all black and white. The noblets? The other knoblets. They're all gray. like New York.

So yeah, that was excellent. That was so smart. Yeah. Barely ever see anything like that. So the film made no money, really. Of course. On the initial release, it was made on like an 8.2 Australian,

8.2 million Australian dollar budget and only got just under 2 million or something in the US. Hopefully it made up the losses once it came to, home releases, but hopefully. This film was kind of hard for me to find in the UK. I was hoping it would be on iTunes or Amazon or something, but it really wasn't.

It was on Netflix for a while. I remember it was on Netflix for like years. Oh, really? It wasn't now. But I found it on Amazon real quick. Yeah, that's probably just the same old distribution thing being like, ugh. Who would want to watch this movie?

Yeah, exactly. It's $5 million or $6 million. in the US. The budget was $6 million USD. Yeah. Yeah, it didn't make its money. It might have over the years, like you said. Who knows?

I mean... I hope it did. He already made another short film in 2015. I haven't seen it, though. I don't know if he's got any more plans for feature length shit, though. Who knows? Yeah, I got to check out of stuff.

He's a very talented guy. Yeah. For $6 million, this film looks amazing. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the amount of like puppets and yeah, yeah. And it has all the classic kind of, you know, Ardman animation like Wallace and Grumet and Chicken Run and all that. You got all the little quirks that come with it,

like the fingerprints and lint all over the models when they zoom in close. And I really appreciated the little details that they really didn't have to animate things like when Max is eating, one of the things he's been sent in the letter, and it's kind of caught on the edge of his lip, and he like licks it up or whatever while he's typing.

Just little details like that that they really went that extra mile because that's the kind of thing that, especially with stop motion animation, that would have increased the workload so much just to do a tiny little detail like that. And they did it anyway. That's the kind of thing I really appreciate with this art form specifically. Yeah. It really, like most of the story takes place in like two locations, like the apartment and kind of surrounding area. and then Mary's home and then maybe a little bit in the surrounding area.

But it really doesn't feel limited in that sense because they're constantly showing things that are like, you know, a baby and a beer glass and like all these things that they didn't have to animate. They didn't have to put effort into. But it really gives it the sense of kind of limitless scale that the film has. Or when he's talking about like fish smoking cigarettes and becoming nicotine dependent. That was one of my favorite parts. And they just showed it anyway. You know, like it could have just been a joke, but instead they show it visually. And I really appreciate the efforts that they put into that.

Because each of those is either a new set or a new character design. You know, you're not just animating with the same materials you already have. That's money and time and effort. Yeah. I think without those, I would agree with Ralph. I probably would have felt the time much more. But each one of those is so like just appreciating how much work they put into the visual aspect, really taking advantage of the animation side of things.

It's just so impressive. Like I just have so much respect for this out for them. I appreciated those cutaway segments. But again, even those I got kind of tired of them. And I didn't think some, I found some of them were funny. Some of them really weren't for me. So. So even the ones that weren't funny to me.

I didn't think they all had to be funny because it was all it was all kind of building into these characters making them feel grounded and realistic like Okay, that's fair. Yeah, yeah Again, it's just a personal thing, but you're watching it wrong Yeah, I'm straight, bro. Do you guys have any plot holes to complain about? Oh, so many. Let's get into that one You're not allowed to talk about them Oh, okay, so let's not then. It did feel like a little tad forced the whole, you know,

pulp mill book kind of thing, like that, that plot element to where they had their conflict. And I get that they needed some sort of excuse to get there. I don't know if I would have any kind of suggestion on what they could have done to make it better. I didn't really think too hard about alternatives, but it did feel like a tad bit force just getting into that part of the plot. Oh yeah Okay Okay Yeah I kind of felt that too

Again it makes sense for a character to want to You're referring to the book she wrote Like how to how to cure Asperger's or whatever And like there's a larger purpose towards showing that You're trying to cure me from my personality But I could just be who I am You know

Yeah it wasn't so I get it But you're right in that it felt kind of weird Like oh she's gonna write a thesis And it becomes a book What And then You, Asperger, yeah, I can see what you're saying. Local academic Pulps novel and career.

It's kind of tongue and cheek, though, isn't it? And it exaggerated and over the top, just like everything else. The whole movie has a silly tone to it, so. That didn't bother me. Yeah, I feel like overall, you know, what we get out of the characters from each of these things happening is worth more than, you know, any kind of, like, tiny, inconsistent. or exaggeration or nitpick because really it's not a movie that that relies on a kind of tight-knit action reaction kind of story structure where it's like this needs to happen and then that turns into this and that turns into this and it's like yeah that's there there are beats

in the story that that move it along but at the end of the day what I really get out of it is the the conversations between these characters and them describing themselves and their experiences the presentation, all of that. So it's not really affected too much by any kind of like plot convenience or something that might feel a bit forced, I guess. What was your take on Philip Seymour Hoffman's performance? Oh, it's amazing as usual.

Yeah. You could probably even recognize him. Yeah, yeah. If you didn't tell me it was Philip Seymour Hoffman, I would have been like, wow, I wonder where they got. Yeah, he really disguised his voice. And Mary was good, too. Do they actually get like a younger kid to voice Mary?

I don't know. Yeah, they did. Because she was good. I mean, for a kid. Mm-hmm. Very great voice acting. You could watch. Even Eric Bona, he was the stuttering guy.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. He was very good. A lot of big voice actors in this, even though. So weird. It doesn't, it seems like a small movie, but you got like this Oscar caliber cast. Yeah. Tony Colette is grown up.

Mary. Yeah. That was great. Very simple, very effective story. And I would give this one a nine out of ten. It's a little too simple. I felt it was a little stretched out. I thought it was a little stretched out.

Pacing was a little weird. There's some humor I didn't like. But overall, I think this is a really good movie. The animation's fantastic. The acting's fucking great. And I admire the fact that it's, you know, an animated movie that's dealing with serious things. and it's adult.

I give it four out of five stars. Bada boom. Yeah, I'd give it either a nine or ten, probably. I liked every element of it, and I think because of how rare these stop motion films are, I just appreciate it on that extra level. I was really gone through every,

like not only is the animation, like fantastic, but the character's also really good. The performances are really good. The cinematography is amazing. It's just a great all-round film, let alone. You don't have to put the caveat of, yeah, it's an animate film for babies, but it's just a great film.

I absolutely adore when animated films just use the most of the fact that it is a visual medium, and it can be so expressive with the character designs and the performances and just the way everything looks and is blocked. It's just really impressive. really, really like this one. It's very daring to make a movie like this, because these adult animated movies never do well. So you have to go into it knowing that you're probably not going to make money.

This is clearly a labor of love. And still, everyone fucking puts 110%, which is crazy to me that they just, you know, they were that passionate about making it. Yeah, it seems like a lot of people have seen it at this point, at least. Well, because it's amazing. But what if it wasn't amazing? The NDB top 250, I think. Top 250 right now.

If it was anything less than amazing than the movie just would have done bad and no one would ever hear of it ever. Yeah. So like everyone's like, oh shit, this has to be amazing. And it is. So God bless him.

Well, I'm really glad that you enjoyed this bittersweet tale of farts, bird poop, and fish genocide. I'm not sure if you're aware, but I think that 2009 might be the single best year for stop motion animation because we got Marion Max we got a town called Panic and we also got fantastic mr. Fox all in the same year oh wow yeah that is a good year isn't that insane like you only get one good

stop motion animated movie every like 10 years usually those all came out the same year 2009 was a good year wasn't that a it was a good year overall Jesus yeah 2009 was a great year for film that's like three of the best best ones ever made the same year. Yeah. 2014 was a great year too. And what was another good one?

I think 2008. 1994, 1999. 94. 90 was great. That was good fellas, I think. And then all of the 70s. All of them? Yeah.

Basically, the 1970s was just the best decade for movies. And then it fell off. Sorry. And now we got skyscraper and the Meg. and Jumanji 2. Slender Man. It's all your fault.

Yeah, and Slender Man. Venom! It looks great. It looks so good. Did you hear Eminem's track? It's really bad. On his new album, he made a song for the Venom movie, and that's the chorus.

He's like, Venom! You never hear, I hear what, get him, Venom! Listen to it. It's so funny. I don't know. It might be in the credits. If it's in the actual movie, if it's in like an action scene.

I'll clap. That one's going to be fun. Yeah, I can't wait. I honestly can't wait. Maybe if the Oscars kept their best popular movie category, then that would win, but they got rid of it. Oh, yeah. They got rid of that shit.

Well, I mean, they got called on their shit. Marvel's like, oh, what, you're going to give a second place so you can get more ratings? How about you go fuck yourself? And then they went, okay. I mean, good for them. It was a dumb decision anyway to make a most popular movie Oscar category. It's funny how they didn't see that it was so dumb before doing it and thought this is a good idea.

Until the backlash, yeah. Yeah, from everyone. It wasn't just like one particular side. It was like Disney Marvel being like, really? They're like, uh-oh, we pissed off the gods. Yeah. You don't fuck with the mouse. Yeah.

All right. you want to do some uh questions yeah let's do it let's do it let's do it let's do it you got him do it up i have i have many many many many we can start here with uh actually if you want to leave your own questions set over to the sardonic ars reddit there's usually a thread that ralph puts in there i like to how you referred to us as uh what was it Hillary clinton tom of trump and oh yeah well i keep changing them up every week well yeah i started first i was like asked questions for ralph alex and adam but then i started changing it to like mike j and rich and Mo Larry Curley

and this week was Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and Donald Trump I think three Yeah, who would be each I guess I'd be Donald Trump because I'm from New York I probably have the most in common with him I dibs Bernie Okay

And then Alex is Hillary Clinton I've got to be fucking great Thanks guys Why I dibs to Bernie Anyway our first question comes from Mufasa underscore 9 who says, what is a great movie that isn't very rewatchable? What do you think is?

Son of Saul? Great movie. It's about the Holocaust and it's miserable. I would never watch it again, at least not for 10 years, but it's a fantastic movie. That's how I feel about 12 years of slave. Oh, yeah. That sounds like it just mess me up when I first watched it. And I really actually want to see it again, but every time I go to it's like,

it's so good, but it's so, so sad. You don't love being horribly depressed? No, actually. Oh. Yeah, I guess my answer would be probably Dear Zachary is one of those. It's just like, great movie. I still got to watch it. Not going to put it on at a party.

No, no. Yeah. There's plenty of movies that I love just watching so many times in a row. Like, Good Time. I watched so many times within a very short amount of time. Yeah. Because it's a good time. Exactly.

That's right. Good time. Reck Queen for a Dream. isn't like the best time. Oh, no. Yeah, that's a, that's a rough time. Yeah, I don't know. I could watch Requiem for a dream a million times.

Oh, okay. I like getting emotional experiences out of things, you know, and especially if the movie has a lot to offer in terms of, like, presentation, because then I'm, like, enjoying it for its acting and cinematography and stuff like that. So if it has a lot of that, then I'm more likely to be wanting to go back into a depressing experience because it's not really just about like, oh no, I'm, I feel sad watching the movie.

It's like that's not the whole experience. A lot of it is appreciation for the craft, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I can totally see that. We have a good one from a make good, make better, who says, is calling a film or any piece of media overrated a valid criticism? Have you ever disliked a movie simply because it's held in such high regard? It's a difficult question.

Because like your experience before you see a movie, I think does affect how you see a movie or even during the movie, the experience. If you're watching a movie with annoying kids in the theater, you're going to have a bad time watching the movie. It's going to ruin your experience, right? Yeah. So, I mean, going into it beforehand, hearing it's the greatest movie ever made, you're going to expect a certain level of quality. And when it's not up to that level, you're going to be disappointed. so it's the same case by case basis

you know sometimes it's your fault for thinking a movie's going to be the greatest thing ever and sometimes you should expect a certain you know bar of quality that the movie doesn't reach and then you go okay well what the fuck was that why everyone make a big deal of that like Black Panther or Wonder Woman

right that's just how I feel about it yeah I think that it's more of a criticism against audiences than it is against the film yeah right it's a criticism But it's not really against the movie itself. It's about like if you want to bring that into the conversation of of what people, you know,

what people pay money for films out there like Marion Max that make no money, even though everybody who's watched it pretty much loves it, then you could bring that into a conversation about about what studios decide to push towards audiences and advertise. And that's more of a criticism against Hollywood and a criticism against, you know, the big machine.

that decides what people watch and what people don't watch, right? Not really against a movie itself. You can be like, hey, Kubo didn't deserve all the credit it got because look at Marion Max, but that's not really an argument against Kubo. Yeah. Yeah, if it's your only argument, it's kind of like a weak. I didn't like that film because it was overrated. It's kind of like, well, there's a much substance there to dove into.

And it's the same thing where it's like you can go into a film because everyone's telling you, man, this is the best. you have to see this where you might say, yeah, it kind of feels overrated. And the same, the inverse is true

all the time, where everyone's ragging on a movie and then everyone goes in, expecting the worst film ever, and then they're like, well, it wasn't that bad. I thought it was actually pretty good.

You see that everywhere. It's just this extreme reaction. Everyone has to have to everything. Yeah. Yeah, it's something that's worth mentioning, for sure. Like, I'll, you know,

I'll talk about how Pixar is overrated, but it's not, you can't use that as an argument against the film itself and not, you know, support it by anything. But I think it does affect your viewing experience in some way. For sure. Yeah. Okay. It puts you in a frame of mind where like you might feel like even subconsciously that, because everyone's going on about how perfect to this piece of media is, if you're going into it, you might be slightly more critical because of it and the same with the inverse. Whereas if these movies were.

chest. Like if I saw Wonder Woman on TV one night and I'd never heard of it, I'd be like, oh, all right. That was an average superhero movie. Yeah, yeah. But the whole big thing makes it, you know, oh, why is it, why is everyone holding it up so high? I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that it would make me more critical, but it does make me a lot more defensive in my criticisms. Because if I, if I can anticipate that people are going to have a huge issue with me just not liking it as much, than a lot of the time I'll try to sort of preemptively address arguments that will inevitably be made against my position sort of thing. Yeah, that's fair.

You have to like elaborate on your points more and be more intelligent. Whereas if you're talking about something with, you know, no buzz, like. Slender Man. Yeah, like you could just say a bunch of shit and call Joey King ugly and whatever. No one would care because it's fucking, because it's like, yeah, it's Slender Man, no one cares. Yeah, the bandwagon. Right? Yeah.

People love that. They love getting on the bandwagon and creating this whole hype train. And then there would be a group of people who think, you know what, Slender Man wasn't that bad. It's pretty underrated. It's funny the way you have to adjust how you talk about movies just based on how well-known or popular or what the critical reception is of them. Yeah. If it's like some dumb B movie, no one cares. You can fucking say whatever you want.

You can't insult Galgado out. Hell no. Gal Gadot. Sexist. What actually is, is it? Is a Gal Gadot? Gall Godot. I think it's Gal Gadot.

Gazelle. Really? Yeah, Gal Gadot. Gazelle. I've said it wrong many times. I was going to call her Wonder Woman. That's fine. Yeah, it's called her Wonder Woman.

So user Owen Poe has left this little juicy one for us. What are your viewpoints between British and American humor or comedy in films? Quite vague,

but what's... How do we feel? about the cultural difference there. It's like anything else. America does it the best. British, him. Really? Way to go, Ralph.

No. It's a case-by-case basis. Edgar Wright's fucking hilarious. Monty Python's hilarious. And then you got guys in America who are funny. But you can't name. I'm trying to think of one. I'll think a one.

What about when, um, because a lot of the time... Tyler Perry. Yeah, Tyler Perry. That's a great. That's a great one. It kind of seems to affect television a bit more. In the UK, we come up with some amazing, like, comedy, whether it be something like The Office, peep show, in between us, whatever,

and then inevitably America gets hold of it and, like, remakes it. Have you seen, like, the... Yes. I think there's like a Peep Show American remake. The Office is probably the most famous one. But it's a very, I watch the British office because I love the American office. And it's a very, very different sense of humor. It's the same concept for the show.

But your fucking version of the main character is like, just like the meanest piece of shit I can imagine. The humor is so mean in the British office, whereas the American one is a lot goofier. And even though Steve Carell's character is like a weirdo, he's not like mean. and like a like how Ricky Jervase is yeah so it's kind of this is a way less friendly

yeah it's just fucking like straight you know I'm trying to think of I've heard plenty of people who like they try to watch they go and watch like the

English version of the office after watching the American Monks they like it so much and they can't they physically cannot do it because of how it's uncomfortable It's so beautifully uncomfortable in Pete show is the same way.

Peep shows are like one of my favorite comedy series. It is uncomfortable to the point where I could totally understand why someone who is not used to that kind of thing could not deal with it because it's like... For the record, I think it's so funny. The British office is funny. It's just very different. It's very different.

There's some video, I can't remember who made it, where they were comparing English and American comedy and a lot of the time American comedy stems from the main character being this kind of awesome like really smart

no at all who's put in a situation around like a bunch of doofuses and a lot of the English kind of humor is really self-deprecating and everyone's pathetic and they're all losers and that's where the kind of humor comes from where it's like if you take something like community which is a kind of

I can't go, a show I like, but Joe McCale in that show, he's like, smart us, no at all. He doesn't really have any flaws particularly, and then you contrast that with something like peep show where just every character is either like an asshole or they're so pathetic. I thought that was an interesting vid. Yeah, American characters are like more straightforward. Like, oh, American people can put themselves onto that character, whereas your characters are all just fucking dicks. or embarrassingly pathetic

yeah I enjoy both styles I guess when I when I think British humor you know I think of a more distinct style than when I think American humor because when I think when I think like American comedy I'm usually just thinking of examples

of like overproduced Hollywood things that are not funny honestly but there's tons of great American comedies and comedy filmmakers and writers. Yeah, I think that both have kind of been inspiring each other in a way. Like, you're seeing things come together a bit more. Like, you're seeing a lot more awkward cringe humor in America than we ever used to. And that is kind of like a British kind of thing.

Yeah, we've been doing that for decades, man. Yeah. Like, it's getting really popular in America. We're like, what a sarcastic humor is coming, becoming popular in America now? like the Eric Andre show. It's like a postmodern critique of fucking talk shows. Bird up.

Like Rick and Morty and Deadpool. Yeah, Rick and Morty, right. Like just mocking past art forms and mocking the, you know, how professional and mannered they are. We'll have some character come in who's like a fucking moron and he just yells and breaks shit

like Eric Andre or Deadpool. You know, that's more of what Americans like now. you have some awful shit we have some awful shit too Big Bang Theory Mr Bean what do you guys think of Mr. Bean Oh Mr. Bean's funny I love it

Mr. Bean's funny come on dude You hype for the new movie that's coming out of you Oh he's got another movie The Mr Bean movies are no good Are you talking about Johnny English? Yeah Johnny English

That's not a Mr. Bean movie Come on okay no yeah Rowan Atkinson slapsic comedy's then You don't like Ron Ackon Sure I love the original show I like classic to be. Yeah. Okay. I don't like the movies and I don't like Johnny English and all that kind of Of course. Okay, that's fair. He was in Scooby-Doo also for one scene. He was scrappy, wasn't he?

No. Oh, was he? I just remember he was in it. He was like some fucking guy on the island. That he was scrappy do? It might have been. I don't know. Yeah. Puppy power. Puppy power. Please, please. We got to watch those movies. That's my, that's my recommendation for next Scooby-Doo 2. We'll do Scooby-Doo 1 and 2. Have you guys seen Death at a Funeral? No, I haven't.

I don't know. Really? Okay, well, I'll leave it at that. It was a 2007 British comedy that got remade in America within like three years and just turned everything into a really stupid straightforward.

Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah, I remember now, yeah. I haven't seen it, I remember. the remake yeah you should watch the original oh let me bring up some american people in film who are actually funny we're good writers Woody Allen Mel Brooks yeah right Kevin Kevin Smith yeah Mel Brooks good example no Trey Parker Matt Stone Trey Parker Matt Stone's a great example they've been yeah they've been doing that shit for years yeah Steve Martin yeah there's tons we can Eddie Murphy although not so much recently but

Then there's Canadian humor. He used to be great. Canadian humor, which is like Terrence and Philip. Fucking Kenny versus Spenny. Yeah, I guess so. People farting and shitting and yelling. It's like the best shit that comes from here is like Kenny versus Spenny, like Nirvana the band.

And then if you want to call Nathan for you a Canadian show, it's not really, but it's Canadian, you know, a lot of good Canadian. Well, he is, of course he's Canadian. Yeah, he seems Canadian. He says that. It's a very Canadian sense of humor. Yeah. He says that at the beginning of every episode.

He does? And then he said he's like a good student. student, right? Yeah. It's been a while. What is a Canadian sense of humor? I wouldn't know. I don't know either. There was a show that was really popular here called Corner Gas and it was terrible It was awful one of those things that like never escapes the border and is only known in Canada We also have trailer park boys that got popular in America. Oh yeah Yeah, we've had that and the run of the band the show. That's Canadian, right? Yeah, awesome. And that's pretty funny. That's pretty funny. Yeah, yeah Yeah, we just, we have some good stuff.

We just have a really, really low population that's spread out, you know, so it's like difficult to get really well-made collaborations between people. Like Canadian movies that are exclusively made in Canada from Canadians, usually horseshit, usually terrible. It's just like we don't have the same pool of talent in concentrated areas. Our population is lower than that of California. California throughout our entire country. That's crazy.

And it's the second largest land man. Yeah, that's nutsy. Yeah. It's just full of bears and deer. Moose. What, geofers. Lewns, moose, bunnies. You got more bears than people over there.

Probably. Yeah. Also more twinks. Damn straight. So, one more question. more question. Got another one. Yeah, one more.

From Henroy XIIII. Opinions on Becdor test. Do we know what this is? Yes. What is it? What is it? What is it? Ralph's ex-ist.

I guess so. It's kind of, it's like a rule or a set of rules that you can like kind of test movies on. It's like three things they have to do. Number one is three rules, sorry. The first rule being, the movie has to have at least two women in it. Number two, who talk to each other, and number three, about something besides a man. Why do we need these rules?

Because you're sexist if you don't have the rules. Is there some law that says we have to have that now? It's a test. It's been around for a while. Yeah, it's just like a test to see if movies pass it or not. What if you want all men in your movie to make like a point about mankind and human beings? in humanity for some like metaphorical reason. Is that sexist?

Dunkirk is sexist. Yeah, because it was a, it was a war that men fought in. And women helped out too. There are women in Dunkirk, so. I don't know, it's, it's, it's an interesting thought experiment, for sure, that, you know, points out,

I guess, trends and tropes in films and just how stories are centered. but it's not something that you should necessarily create your film to include in order to, you know, appease some certain types of people out there, you know? It's something that could be considered, but... It's pointing out there are poorly written female characters in movies that aren't given a lot to do. And there's other tests like that. There's some other one. I forgot the name of...

Do you guys know the name of it? But there's all kinds of tests like that. And I agree that if you want to have a movie where there are female characters in it, they need to be well written. They shouldn't just be there to talk about men and to fuck men and do whatever. But there's some movies where it just doesn't apply. There's some movies where like a Blade Runner 2049, I wouldn't say there are any weak female characters in that movie. But there's the character of joy. And she's a fucking sex hologram.

That's what she is, right? That's her. And they tread, they develop her more than that. But at the end of the day, that's what she is. and that's what's tragic about that character. So that's an exception, right? What about a movie like her? Would that pass it?

Right. Where that's, it's just about a relationship. Like, she, from what I know, she only talks to other men about romantic things and literature, that character, Scarlett Johansson's character. It's like, all right, so what? She's still a good character. It's all these dumb rules that people try to apply to fucking, like, entire genres of film. When you just take movies on a case-by-case basis, it's silly. Yeah, it really depends on what kind of story you're trying to tell.

Yeah, because, like, it depends on a lot of different things. And I don't think that movies should have to be forced to be telling a certain story and nothing else. But at the same time, it's interesting to at least note what the trends are and, you know, being like, oh, hey, yeah, there aren't really that many. films that have female characters talking to each other about things that are unrelated to the male characters. Yeah, and that's messed up. It really depends on what kind of movie.

We should have more movies like that. I agree with that. It's just saying that, okay, now we're going to implement this rule. So if a movie doesn't do this, it's sexist. It's silly. Yeah, it's kind of just more a statement all than anything, isn't it?

So maybe you should think about this a bit, like based on trends. and what we can learn from the idea of it. I don't think like every film has to pass it or anything there. You're already, like as soon as that test is applied, you're canceling out every film that has a male lead, basically. If it's a film that follows the main character around the entire movie, then you're not really going to get scenes with two secondary characters,

regardless of their gender, talking about something unrelated to the main character. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like ignoring the whole context of what film is. If like this is how you rate films is based on like tests that people have come up with. Yeah, gravity didn't pass. Yeah. Yeah, well that character's not very good.

She's just floating around space screaming the whole time. Barking. She's in. Help! Help! Oh yeah. Then she's barking because she's going to die. Oh, I'm so lowly.

Oh, Sandra Bullock. Do that again, Ralph? Oh. that's such a you are a furry all right there's such a that movie is really good

except for fucking Sandra Bullock and George Clooney they fucking ruin that movie with George Clooney's like dumb er acting and then yeah it was poorly yelling

yeah it was really poorly cast movie she's so bad in that movie so bad Oscar nominated bad I don't know She belongs in like the heat with a Melissa McCarthy. That's what she belongs in.

She doesn't belong in like these Oscar caliber movies. She sucks. Yeah. Gravity's proof. That movie's all, it has to, it relies on her being good. The whole movie's on her shoulders. And she's like, oh, fucking in that cockpit.

It's so bad. Help! And then George Cleese are, I'm coming, don't worry. I don't know. Yeah, I don't mind. her performance in that movie at all. No, I don't buy either of them. It's George Clooney

fucking in a space suit and then Sandra Bullock screaming and flailing her arms for an hour and a half. I would rather have nobody's in the movie. Yeah, then it would have been good. Everybody that watched that movie, the whole point of watching that movie is that it was like a special effects Marvel, right? Like that was the whole point.

You don't need Sandra Bullock and George Clooney in the movie. You really don't. It's better without them. It's probably the only way it got made, though. Yeah. Or Alfonso Quran. It's like, I've got this great idea for a movie.

And then George Cleese was like, I'll give your money. Yeah. Yeah. There were two other actresses that he tried to get and I think didn't work out. And then wound up settling for Sandra Bullock. She stinks. She gets the money in you, man. Sandy Bullocks.

Sandra Bullock. God. Stay in comedies, please. Didn't she win an Oscar for the Blind Side? I think so. That fucking. That's stupid movie. Yeah.

That dumb shit. Yeah, that was not a very good movie. Really? Pandering. Yeah. Pandering. White people save the day again. White people saved a black kid.

And then all the white liberal people in the audience are, oh! And they're jerking themselves off. How progressive they are. A bunch of fucking dicks. Oh, whatever. I found out who the original cast was. I just barely found it. Angelina Jolie was originally cast,

dropped out, then Natalie Portman turned it down after she announced her pregnancy. Rachel Wise, Naomi Watts, Marion Cotiar, Abby Cornish, Carrie Mulligan, Sienna Miller, Scarlett Johansson, Blake Lively, Rebecca Hall,

and Olivia Wilde were all subsequently tested or approached for the lead role, and Sandra Bullitt got it. Wow. Well, I don't think it was an acting decision. It was some money. It was a financial motive to that decision. I think Carrie Mulligan would have done a good job.

Oh yeah, I bet any of them would have done a better job than her. Mm-hmm. Why don't you just get Melissa McCarthy in the space suit? That would have been awesome. Woo! Did you see that? New movie with the puppets she's in? Did anyone see that?

I've avoided that. There's no way I'm watching that. That looks like the worst movie ever made. The Happy Time Murder's or whatever it's called? Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. That is a...

Cool concept, just ruin. Yeah, I don't know. You can only ride on the concept for so long before it becomes annoying. Like, ooh, isn't it funny that this presentation doesn't typically have grotesque, immature humor in it that's made for adults? Yeah, that's what? It does. But they could have done like a who frame Roger Abbott type thing. That takes work, though.

That takes intelligence. That takes intelligence work. Yeah. Yeah. Let's just sit the actors down. have him say fuck a few times and then he can silly string for come or whatever i like the part where millinson mccarthy falls yeah god i love when she falls she should have been the puppet the main puppet she's a corporate

george cluny could have been one of the one of the puppets too that's not a great impression but go on that's all it's brilliant rough just keep going What, that's what he does. You fucking just... I mean, I can't do the body language right now. Just watch the Eric Andre impersonator. Oh, yeah. No, the Eric Andre, George Clooney impersonator.

That's how I see George Clooney all the time now. That fucking... That's funny. Ripety rap, rap, roo, rapidoo. That's good. All right. I have a movie to recommend for you guys if you're interested. So you got to watch this.

by two weeks from now when I post it, or when we record our next episode. The name of the movie I'm recommending, it's a thriller indie film called Ben and Arthur. You guys are really going to enjoy it. It's, yeah, it's interesting. It's very sad and emotional, so get ready. Ben and Arthur.

You'll have a good time. 2002? Ben and Arthur, 2002. Wait. Okay. Why are you chucking? Nice. Okay, cool. No, I'm excited. I'm actually really excited.

Good. Yeah. I've heard about this. Yeah. Great. All right, yeah. Awesome. Great. All right, man. Thanks, Ralph. No problem. You guys are going to love it. Oh, I will. Oh, dude. I'm hyped. I'm hyped for this. Yeah, yeah, so.

I'm hyped too. I'm high three. I just read the tagline? The tagline? Only the power of love can defeat a holy soldier on a mission. Is that what you just read? Yeah. Oh, dude.

That's great. Okay, yeah. I've actually never seen this movie. I've just heard about it. Yeah. I've heard about it and I've seen some things and I'm like, all right, I think this will be a good pick. Is it going to be an iTunes? I hope so.

I don't know where it is. I hope you can find a copy. Yeah. That's part of the. challenge. It's part of the fun. It's part of the fun. Part of the experience. It'd be like the Neil Brain system where you have to like go to his site and give

them money and then demand what movie you want. You have to like bypass through, right? But put instructions that you actually want like double down. That's part of it. That's fucking crazy. That's such a convoluted system. I'll be emailing the director of Ben and Arthur to try and get my copy. It's not on iTunes, by the way, in the UK.

Sweet. I hope we can all find it. All right. Let's put our orders in. Yeah, I'll figure this out Anyway, thank you all for watching You're listening to this episode of Sardani cast Watch the movie before the next episode

Because we're going to be talking about it And you don't want to be spoiled for Ben and Arthur Definitely don't want to be spoiled for that movie We're going to spoil the shit out of it So if you want to hear these episodes early Head over to sardonacast.com You can pay $2 a month and get these episodes

when they're edited before they're public. Also, patreon.com slash sardonicast. You can do the same thing there. All right, boys. Thanks. Sorry, I just screamed. It's just I saw how much Ben and Arthur costs

on DVD in the UK. Oh, great. Worth it. 88 pounds. Holy shit. Dude, that's how good this movie is. It's a collector's item. Yeah. It'll be worth more in 10 years. Don't worry. It's like an investment.

It's going to be like some priceless artifact. Thank you, Ralph. I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. We needed to change it up. There's been too many, too many great films here. Yeah, too many good films. We need some fucking shit. We need to smear some shit in our eyes and ears. Yeah. All right. Thank you for listening, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.