Sardonicast - Sardonicast 182: NEW HOST, Oscar Noms, Kraven the Hunter, 8 Mile

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sardonicast.bsky.social Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Jake's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ManCarryingThing Jake's movie channel: https://www.youtube.com/@womancarryingman Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/yms.bsky.social Jake's twitter: https://x.com/ManCarrying Jake's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mancarryingthing.bsky.social Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Jake's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mancarryingthing Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Timestamps: 0:00 NEW HOST 3:47 2025 Oscar Noms 56:42 Kraven the Hunter 1:24:50 8 Mile 1:59:30 Questions 2:19:43 Recommendation + outro

Three, two, one. That hurt so much to do, but that was a quote from Craven the Hunter. That was, uh, you can find that on YouTube. Just search up that part in Craven the Hunter where Rhino makes a weird noise. I tried my best. I couldn't get the gurgling. Uh, I'm Adam from your movie sex. This is Sardonicast.

Hello. Wow. That sounds so good of a Discord as well. I don't know. I'm Alex from IH.E. And, uh, I guess, Jake, you'll still hear, huh? What? What?

Oh, yeah, sorry. What the fuck? Did you forget to hang up with something? We have a straggler. Yeah, I was here the whole time. I just, I really wanted to talk about Craven. Oh. Surprise, everyone.

We've got a third host for the first time in over a year now. Wow. Yeah, just over a year, huh? We were looking. We wanted to fill in the void. of Alex and I agreeing on nearly every film and uh... Yeah

And also just conversationally you know like a three person podcast tend to have a bit more of a flow to it you know just a little bit more of a back and forth and forth It has a what? Yeah yeah what? Of more of a flow?

Yeah there's a more yeah Huh? Yeah oh yeah Like the movie Yeah yeah no The French movie that Sorry you keep interrupting me. I was talking about the Oscar nomination. There's an Oscar

nominated. Avatar the way of water is a masterpiece. By the way, everybody listening. Yeah. I'm gonna remind you right now that Alex and I are are technically taking a pay cut to make this happen. So we need to see the Sarnonikest Patreon and members and memberships on the website and memberships on the YouTube. Those need to be increased by 150% okay so if you want to if you want to see us have three members and we don't want to have to let Jake go okay we don't want to have to make him go bye-bye so we need those numbers out now wait you're going to make me go bye bye bye bye man yeah like by that's scary well like the movie

flow well right like the movie well I just want to say you know first off thank you I'm honored to be another guest here, you know. No, you're not a guest anymore. No, that's true. I have certain editorial powers now. Uh-oh. I can control the conversation like I'm doing right now. And also, I just want to remind everyone that for the first time in a long time, there's

an American presence on this podcast. And I just want to say, God bless America. I'm going to represent the good old US of A. here on this very important podcast. So, thank you very much. Back in balance. Finally, some American represent some white male American. Some diversity.

Finally. Siss, straight, I think. We'll not get into it. We'll not get into that. American. Finally, some representation on the podcast. You're welcome. You're welcome.

So speaking of the movie. here. Yeah. Speaking about the movie flow. Yeah. Uh-huh. This is going really well. That was, yep. Well, the Oscar Noms came out.

Oh, did they? Yeah. The movie Flow was nominated for a couple of things. I got the whole list up here for we want to go through these one-by-one, the 97th Academy Awards over here. Yeah, and I'm just going to go off the official website order. almost at Hondo. Yeah, you're right. Only three more damn years of

dramas. I'm gonna be, this is gonna, this is gonna be like my least, uh, informed opinions here because you guys have probably seen way more of these Oscar, uh, nominees than I have. Sure. I mean, like, I haven't seen all them either, but like, uh, we usually just like to go over them when they're out and just like, make quick blurbs. This, it's kind of a tradition. I think our very first episode on the podcast was

going over Oscar Noms. It was. Was it Oscar Noms or Oscar Winners? I think it was Noms. Yeah, it was. I think it was Noms. Yeah, yeah. Um, numb, no.

There are a few I'm missing too, because like, like the Brutelus, for example, only came out last Friday for me. Yeah. Like three days ago, as of recording. So, and I still haven't seen, like, wicked and big ones like that. Did you see it? Did you see it yet? I haven't seen it yet. No, I still, I need like a chunk of time.

I know, right? I know, right? I know, right? And it's like a city away. I've got to go see it in as well. So it will wind up being like a set. hour like round trip just to see the Brutelist but I wanted to see it in 70mm you guys haven't seen it I have I feel I feel like a terrible parent I have a seven week old

child and I abandoned him to see see the Brutalist it was like a six hour experience just take the baby to the Brutalist they'll be fine I think yeah he would have liked it actually I think he would have to have some good there's an intermission to change the dipe that's why it's there oh yeah that's true It was a good intermission, too. It was like 15 minutes. Yeah. Yeah.

I like that they actually did that. So I haven't seen The Brutalist yet. It was playing at Tiff. I got sick at Tiff. And even if I wasn't sick at Tiff, there were only like two screenings and they were conflicting with like four other movies that I wanted to see because of the length. It's so long. You know, I like Brady Carbitt.

I liked his last movie, but not like masterpiece like. And his last movie was not three and a half. hours long and so I was kind of like I had to make some decisions and then while I was at Tiff it was getting a lot of buzz at Venice and I was like fuck did I make the wrong decision whatever I'll catch it later and now it's later and I'm sick with a different chronic condition and I'm trying to find the right moment that I want to be out of the house for that amount of time but I'll try to make sure to catch it before I can't because there are some 70 millimeter showings happening here right now and I would like to but can I make a prediction?

What? I think, okay, I think Adam, you're going to give it a four out of 10. And I think Alex, you're going to give it a seven and a half out of 10. Why? Okay, I saw your rating. I mean, I guess he can't tell me why, but whatever. Yeah, true. I just have a sense about it.

It's very uninformed, but I just, I feel like that's... Is that an earnest prediction? That's my earnest prediction, yeah. I think that's what's going to happen. That's your gut. Okay. Alex and I usually aren't that far off. So this would be like a pretty unique, unique ratings discrepancy.

I know there are a couple on here that we're divided on. But I mean, seeing as we brought up the Brutilist already, that is conveniently where the list starts with the actor in a leading role. We got Adrian Brody for the Brutalist. Yeah. Tim Cham for a complete unknown. Fuck you. Coleman Domingo from Sing Sing.

Yeah. You guys can, whenever I say this actor's name, I feel like I always get it wrong. Please. And people tell me it's wrong. Voldemort. Is it Ray Fines? Ralph Fienes? I feel like I've heard like every damn way of saying his name.

Like how do you guys say his name? The thing, it's pronounced Rafe the movie maker. Rafe, the movie maker. It's pronounced Epstein. Yeah. No, I don't know. I always heard Rafe, but it looks like Ralph, so. I pronounce it, I don't give a shit.

Yeah, hell yeah. Yeah, whatever. Hell yeah. Ralph for Conquence. Clave and Sebastian Stan for The Apprentice. Yeah, so I haven't seen a complete unknown either. And that's more from just lack of interest. Yeah.

I went to sort of better man myself out of the biopics that are out right now. Yeah, you know, I'm kind of, I would, I'd be interested in seeing a better man. A complete unknown is, I think, the one film out of every single nomination this year that I'm going to be downloading a cam rip. Everything else. I'm either doing digital or in theaters, a complete unknown. I'm like, I'm sorry. James Mangold biopic. What am I going to be missing watching this on someone's fucking camera recorder?

I don't think I'm going to be missing a single fucking thing. It's literally not my thing. I've seen. Yeah, I've seen it. And, you know, as the one American on this podcast, I have to say, for shame, Bob Dylan is a national treasure. Does it capture him well, though? I think that Timotei Shalameh shines on the screen. I think that he brings his spirit to life as if he were still alive, which he is, of course.

But I think that I enjoyed it, but I'm also a freak for Bob Dylan. I think street legal is his best album. You know, I can't be objective about it. I think that's what my review was all about. But it is a super traditional musical biopic. And if you like the subject, then you're probably going to like the movie. It's very safe. But also, it was more music focused than I expected.

I really liked that aspect because I thought that the performances were really good. I'm still not watching it in a theater. It better come out on digital in the next two weeks or I'm watching a camera. I'm sorry. Yeah. I can't do that one. It's more the mangled thing that kind of pissed me off when anything. It feels like, oh, I've got to spin around Indiana Jones, like, optics right now.

I've got to make sure I don't get wind up in that jail. Otherwise, who would be the pick for this? Who do you want to see? I mean, I still have yet to see three out of five of them. Sing Sing Sing's good, and Coleman is good in it, for sure. But, I mean, I don't know. I feel like Brody or Sebastian could change my mind about who my favorite is. Because right now it's just like between Sing Sing and Conclave are the ones that I've seen.

And if that's the case, then I guess Coleman. I mean, Ralph was good too. But like, I just, I don't know. There's no strong winner in my mind right now. We'll see how much I like the Brutelist and The Apprentice. Yeah, I especially need to wait for Brut'sa list. But I was happy to see Sebastian Stan in there. There wasn't much speak around the Apprentice when it came out.

So I'm glad to see a couple of. awards in there for because I thought that especially as far as performances are concerned Sebastian Stan and Jeremy Strong really stood out for me in that movie and I guess speaking of we moved to supporting actor in a supporting role now um we got Euroborosov from anora nice a nice pull I was really happy to see yeah oh cool I'm so glad he got like plucked from that because he definitely deserved yeah one of the best kieran colkin from real pain a kalkin with an oscar nom has that happened before I know crazy is this the first? I don't believe so.

Yeah. It must be. Edward Norton from a complete unknown. Guy Pearce in the Brutelist and Jeremy Strong from The Apprentice. Good collection here, even though again haven't seen the Brutalist yet or a completely unknown, but the other three you can't really go wrong. Let's give it to Colkin to make Mac mad. Yeah.

I feel like the Jeremy Strong and Colkin noms are kind of like succession related. I feel like they're trying to, the academy's like, yes, succession was really good. Yeah. You guys should get a couple of nominations. That's kind of funny. I haven't seen the performances, but, yeah. We got to move on. This is going to be a long episode.

We got a lot to talk about it. Yeah, you're right. Actress in a leading role. We got Cynthia Arriva for Wicked. Carla Sophia Gascon from Amelia Perez. Mikey Madison from Anora, Demi Moore from the substance, and Fernanda Torres for I'm still here. They're all great.

I want Demi to win it just for, because it would be fun. Yeah. We'll see what, you know, Carla Sophia Gascon did a great job, but people would be so mad because it's Amelia Perez. So people would be mad if she won. Well, isn't her like a nomination historic too? It is. It's the first.

It's funny that everyone's like pissed about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. whether you hate trans people or not, you're like pissed about it for some reason. Yeah, I didn't love that film or what it was really bringing.

I didn't really feel like an Oscar-worthy film to me. Sure. But... I still have to see it. I don't know. There's always like these in every year. There's kind of odd picks for me. Yeah, it's people saying it's like as bad or worse than like Green Book or Maestro or Crash.

I'm sorry. That's not that's that's not honest. The conversation around it sucks. Yeah. It's it's reductive in a way where you know they're not really talking about the movie. Exactly. It's the same conversation as like a sound of freedom where people go if you don't support this movie you're a pedophile except as the opposite direction. You're racist if you like this movie like okay. Fuck you know is it it's it's different people are judging different things. I'm judging things like the cinematography right? So like Yeah, we'll have a more detailed conversation about this in the coming days. This is not going to fit into this episode.

I need to watch this now. It's another cancer media conversation in the realm of like the Last of Us 2, where no one's actually talking about the art anymore. Yeah. It's just so fucking annoying. That's what I love about the Oscars, you know. You aren't even arguing about anything. There's definitely, yeah. The controversy of the film.

of this year. It seems like for sure. Actress in a supporting role then. We got Monica Barbaro for a complete unknown. Ariana Grande for wicked. Felicity Jones for the Brutalist. Isabella Rosalini for Conclave

and Zoe Saldauna for Amelia Perez. No opinion. Yeah, from what I've seen, no strong opinion. I haven't seen three of the five. Felicity Jones is amazing and the brutalist, but I don't think she's to get it yeah why not um she's British I don't know yeah too British yeah

yeah again out of what I've seen there the but I don't feel like the Salada performance is an Oscar worthy one am I opinion but um but it would be so funny yeah it'd be funny I mean Perez is gonna walk away with something I'd be shocked if it didn't get Yeah, 13.9. With how many nominations it has. It could pull an Irish man. True. Animated feature film then.

This is probably the most solid category probably all around. Flow inside out two, memorabilia of a snail, Wallace and Gromit, Vengeance, Most Fowl and the Wild Robot. I only haven't seen Flo, as you were joking earlier. Your pick snail or what? And I don't, I don't care about Inside Out 2 at all, but yeah, my personal pick would be snail, but I'd be happy to see Feathers McGraw with an Oscar, or I hear really good things about flow. I'll check that out before the ceremony itself too. But I don't know if that one will win.

Is this, like, every time a Wallace and Grummet movie comes out, is it usually your favorite of the nums? God, what was it up against last time? That was a long time ago now, like 20 years ago. 2005 or something. I think it might have been up against a spider verse at one point, so I don't know if that... I don't know if we get them that regularly. But no, not necessarily. I am partial to the W&G, so... Yeah. I haven't seen a single one. I think it's interesting that Flo got the globe. That was kind of surprising.

Yeah, I didn't see that coming, but I mean, I'm glad it is. Yeah, I feel like that means it could happen for the Oscars, but you'd never know. A lot of the Academy voters are insane, especially with this category. Which one, I'm surprised Moana too wasn't on here. I thought they just put it on there because they don't care, like, because it made a billion bucks. They're either starting to care or starting to pretend to care. There's been some improvements, you know. Starting to pretend to care is a good way to kind of summarize the...

Yeah. I'm going to skip over animated short film. Skip over all the shorts. Fuck him. Yeah. You're not even feature length. It's just make a movie. Brutalist in here.

Doom part two. Amelia Perez. Maria and Nosferatu. So we have some names we haven't seen yet in here. This will give me a good excuse to check out, Maria. I like Pablo Lorraine, so. And I haven't seen Nosferatu yet, but. Hmm.

Dune had great cinematography, but... So did Nostratu, but... Exactly. Yeah, I really need to see the Brutelis before I can have a strong opinion on this. From what I've seen though, again, I don't think I would give Perez that one, despite some of the staging, I guess, and some of the musical numbers being fun. All right. Costumes is going to Wicked, we don't even need to talk about it, it's going to Wicked, all right, move on. Yeah.

Directing, we got Sean Baker, Onora. Nora, Brady Colbert, the brutalist, man gold for a complete unknown, Jacques Audez, Odiard. Jacques. Oh, God. Jacques. Odie. You got to do the French one. Jacques Odieuart.

For Perez and the substance. Coralie, Farge. Yeah, thank you. I'm trying. Yeah. I was happy to see the substance get mentions at all, to be honest. I told you it could happen. More and whatever.

Remember three months ago you said it couldn't happen? I said, there's a chance. I guess I was wrong, yeah. I was right. It's not just a horror film. It's a feminist horror film. Remember that. That makes all the diff.

I'm very happy she has a nom for director though. That's cool. Yeah, it's super cool. Like her career is just going to open up. She gets to make whatever the fuck she wants to next. Isn't that dope? I'm so excited to see whatever she comes up with next. Yeah, as soon as I saw it as nominated,

I just was thinking about that ending scene with the crowd. Yeah. What happens there? Just like, yes, this is now like an Oscar nominated movie. And also like, have you seen the, so movie posted like a behind the scenes kind of like video, just like a featurette of the making of for the substance? Oh yeah, yeah. She's like right there. Just like literally spraying blood on the crowd with like this huge hose.

She's having a blast. Like what a what a passionate and fun project. There's so much, like the life of cinema and the love of filmmaking is just throughout that project. I really hope it wins the best picture because that would just be the best outcome. That would be funny. Yeah. People wouldn't even know whether or not to be mad. They'd be so confused.

Should I go over the documentary features? Because I haven't seen any of these. Black Buck Diaries was awesome. Looking forward to know other land. and the rest I haven't seen yet yeah I'll just skip over documentary short film as well let's go to editing then anora

the brutalist conclave emilia Perez and wicked editing there's a my first major snub kind of pops into my head here where's challenges yeah that's what I thought where the fuck is challenges

that's a fucking weird one yeah for this year For like it won the globe for score It's it's Trenton Atticus The Academy clearly likes them But I guess they forgot about them Or they decided you have too many Oscars Give someone else a chance

Yeah, just sick of you Or they just didn't like challengers And they let that You know Kind of I don't know Just inform whether or not it was eligible Or deserving of any nonms

No Luca anywhere He released two films Yeah there's two Luca picks as well then I was hoping fucking Daniel Craig for actor. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You could easily get rid of somebody in that category.

Definitely deserved it. You can get rid of Ralph. Rave? Rafe? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Ralph. Yeah, I would swap those in a second.

Yeah. I feel like the energy behind Luca was divided between challengers and queer. So, I mean, I don't know all the politics behind it, but I know that, like, I felt like the energy was like, oh, right, let's make queer the Oscar contender. Challenges is just a fun one. But I think it should have been. But they were two different studios. So it's not like they were making that decision for their four-year consideration campaigns.

One was A-24 and one was like MGM. So they could each focus entirely on the same film. I just don't know what happened. He just got absolutely snubbed this year. So fucking MGM releasing a film also this year. It's just like, I haven't seen it in so long. Who's the cinematographer that Luca uses? What's his name?

It's really long. Jeff? No, I don't. I don't remember. But he did like, I think he did Challenger's and Queer and just an incredible, and trap. Just incredible cinematographer. I love this. I wish I remembered their name, but yeah, should have been nominated.

You don't have them enough? Apparently. I guess not. Yeah, that crazy snub for for challengers I would love to see a cinematography nom for that Yeah My current pick I guess would be a Nora fair editing there otherwise I'm rewatching

Yeah Definitely picked up the words put together In ways I didn't notice on that first time Yeah the editing does a lot in that movie Yeah yeah it's really well I don't know why Wicked is fucking on there at all Like it's not yeah it's more to do with like the I get the the the planned out storyboarding than the edit. I guess that is involved in the editing choices,

but it's not like, it's not like intelligent editing like anora. It's just, you know, the necessary editing you have to do when you have so many different angles doing a musical number in Wicked, you know? I don't know.

Yeah. Different ideas, I guess. Why is Conclave on editing? Sorry, excuse me. Why the fuck is Conclay? Yeah. That is a standout kind of old one. That's insane.

Um, I hate Concave. that the nominations for Conclave are so much more egregious than Amelia Perez in my opinion like Conclave got a fucking score nom That was the worst part about the movie

What are you doing? They're just tossing at knobs for no reason Oh my god Yeah Neither of them feel like big old sco movies to me Yeah But Amelia Perez is problematic, so that's the one people care about. Yeah.

So that's editing done. International feature film then. Brazil, I'm still here. Denmark, the girl with the needle. France with Amelia Perez. Germany, the cedar, the sacred fig, and Latvia with flow. I think I'm still here has a chance. It's the only one that's nominated for Best Picture other than Amelia.

Yeah. So it would be funny if Amelia Perez when but you know yeah it's getting something I don't know they might just give it to this one yeah Amelia Perez sweep just best oh my god best picture best picture that'd be funny like I wouldn't even be mad it's it's not deserving of those things for sure but like you know what like this happens at the Oscars all the time wait not nearly as egregious is Greenbook. Greenbook had like zero qualities.

I mean, what to you is the worst best picture winner ever? Best picture winner ever? Oh my God. Well, I would have to get a full list. But from memory, you know, crash and Greenbook are pretty fucking egregious. I really, you know, nobody fucking remembers like, struggling to find the name of it even. What was that one where they were like, uh, at the Washington Post,

we are uncovering the Catholic Church's pedophilia or something. Oh, Spotlight? Spotlight, yeah. Nobody fucking remembers that shit. People already don't even remember... I like Spotlight. Yeah, you like it, but... So forgettable.

I think about it every day. Nobody remembers Coda. That was fine. But that was just like, it's fine, right? Like, that's forgettable. Yeah, in terms of, like, egregiously bad ones, crash and Green Book or... two that stick out particularly.

And Crash is way worse than Green Book in my mind. Yeah. Crash like really stands out to me. It's like the, what the, what is this doing here? Crash has aged terribly. Nomad land or whatever is like kind of forgettable and people aren't really talking about it. But I can at least see why it's there. And even Green Book within a certain, within certain bounds.

Yeah. All those movies are good. The Girl with a Needle is the only one I haven't seen that I'm looking forward to it. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, makeup and hairstyling. We've got a different man, Amelia Perez,

Nosferatu, the Substance, and Wicked. Hmm, what's gonna win? Oh, the substance, that's gotta be it, right? I mean, in a fair world, yes. What's gonna win and what deserves it, yeah. I think Wicked probably gets it then, right? Whereas I'd want the substance. Well, she was green the whole time.

Uh-huh. And that's a lot of makeup. And a different man, maybe. But I think they would have to have watched that movie, actually. So probably not I think they're going to vote for wicked because they've all seen wicked I think that's how that one's going to work

shout out Nussaratu as well I don't think it's going to win but How would you feel about a wicked best picture win? How would that feel for you guys? It would be funny Yeah I'm feeling I'm going wicked best picture That's what I'm thinking of what's the Okay let me just look at best picture nums

and let me think if there's like a worst case scenario for me. I think probably Conclave. Like, I can't, I don't think I would be mad at any. Well, actually, I haven't seen a complete unknown yet. That might make me mad. But right now, just conclave. I love how that's like the most mild medium. Like, everyone just kind of likes it.

But that's your, those piss me off the most. Yeah. When they did, like, it's not, it's not fucking earning anything. Sorry, did it get a cinematography nom? What did it get? It got editing. That's insane. That's like actually fucking, what the fuck?

Yeah, I don't get that. But, uh, whatever. Let's, let's move along. I'm sorry. Let's do music, original score then. Got the brutalist conclave. There it is. Amelia Perez,

Wicked and the Wild Robot. And, yeah, somehow no. No challengers. Trent in there. Yeah. That's the big one, because that's the, that's the easy pick for me. Yeah.

But out of what we're presented with, I actually don't know. Because I didn't like the music in Conclave or Amelia Perez. I haven't seen Wicked yet, and I thought the music was just fine in the Wild Robo. Yeah, this is for score also. So, like, the fact that Amelia Perez and Wicked are both there, I think it just lends to the theory that the academy just kind of read the first word of the category. And then, like, yeah. Oh, there's music in these.

Remember when it was like sound editing and sound mixing the two different categories? And then they changed it to one because like nobody understood which what the difference was between the two. They're like, we got to do one category because nobody understands what the difference is. I think this is one of those. They don't understand the difference between the score and the original music. So Wicked and Amelia Perez are on there for no reason. And challengers had to get pushed to the side. Why the fuck is Conclays?

It's one of those two. That pisses me off. It would probably win it too. Oh my God. If I had to bet Wicked or Perez, I reckon. Brutalist, it's got to be the Brutalist at this point. So, such a good, such good music. They should do a write-in for Challenger's.

Yeah, that'd be sweet if you can do. I'd be happy with the Brutalist, honestly. That'd be a good one. Yeah. But yeah, Challenger's robbed. Yeah, I heard the score is great in that. Music original song. We got El Mal from Amelia Perez, the journey from the 6th, AAA,

Like a Bird from Sing Sing. Camino from Amelia Perez again and never too late from Elton John never too late. I think it would be weird. The fact that Amelia Perez has two noms means that it's probably going to get it. The songs I enjoyed from Amelia Perez, El Mal is like the popular one. I didn't like that one that much. Yeah? It's kind of weird.

It's like as someone who did enjoy some of the songs from it, like it's the Academy just always nominates the weirdest ones. Like, okay, this one's the hit, all right. But that usually happens to me with like just, I don't know, regular music listening anyway. Like my favorite tracks from Brat, I looked them up the metrics. I'm like, these are the two least listen to ones. Like, fuck, what the hell's wrong with me? But whatever.

Why not? Yeah, I've got no strong opinion on this guy's degree. Oh, did you hear that this year? they're not going to be performing original songs. Usually at the original song category, they do a live performance. They're not doing that this year. I wonder why. It might work out when Perez wins it and they can not have to...

Because there's no, I'm just Ken. That's why. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was a standout moment. That was like the one thing that people were sharing from the Oscars last year. Like, as a positive thing. Like, the Oscars has been desperate for positive, like, social media posts and news for so long.

Like, every year previous, it was like, how did they fuck up this time? What terrible thing happened to the Oscars? Finally, they get one news cycle where something cool happened and people liked it. They're like, no more of that. We can't have that anymore. Sorry. I don't know. I think it's a smart move.

I think that they kind of know, like, oh, there's not really any big breakout songs that people are going to care about. I don't know. I get it. They should have nominated a Joker, too. They should have, yeah. They're not original songs there. Oh, yeah. Not on any of these lists, yeah.

Get Frank Sinatra up there. Yeah. Yeah. I guess we're there. We're at Best Picture. So, we got a big list here. Arnora, the Brutalist, a complete unknown, conclave, Dune Part 2, Emilia Perez I'm still here nickel boys

the substance and wicked I've seen seven of them out of ten which is nice yeah I haven't even seen Conclave but I'm just you know what fuck Conclave

yeah fuck that hell yeah yeah oh my god thank you stupid movie we made the rest of it I just yeah I'm just plateline with that movie

I just don't feel anything towards conclave it just those are the worst kind I remember some of the imagery I actually kind of like the first act or like what it was setting up outside of the music it was insisting on music Oh no who's gonna be the Pope? Oh, it's so consequential to people that aren't Catholic Oh, who's gonna dittle kids this time around? Fuck, who cares? Oh my God, it doesn't even matter the outcome of the film doesn't matter

It's the most inconsequential fucking thing in the world. Is this why you hated spotlight? Oh, this is why I hate spotlight? Yeah, maybe I have a Don't care about whatever's happening. in the Catholic church. I just want to do my own thing. No one cares. No one cares about that. Yeah, who gives a shit? Who cares?

I'm glad Dune wound up in there because there's the whole stuff with the soundtrack being snubbed as well, I guess, because of that rule of reusing a certain amount of what you've written for the discount sale or something. It's like 40, 50% or... So it couldn't be in the soundtrack Cats crew. I also have an article open for that.

Because basically Hans Zimmer's argument is like, you know, when you're creating a score for a film that is a sequel, you do kind of, you know, want to reuse things like themes. You know, the parts of the music that have a direct connection with either a character or an emotion or some sort of like theme in the film. Like, that's intelligent composition when you're connecting the pieces of music to specific things that are happening. And when you're doing a sequel, it's like, okay, well, you know, technically a chunk of this has been published before, but it's a part of, you know, the... And it's the second half of the same story, too. It's not like a different book or a sequel that way. It's like the second half of the same story. Yeah.

So, like, I don't know. That seems like a dumb rule for that one. I don't know. Glad it got into best picture. It's a conversation to have, and you could, you could convince me either way on it, because I don't want, you know, I don't want fucking, what's the other big composers name, John Williams? I don't want him to just win every year for just doing that, da-da-da-da-da-da, or just the star. Like, you know, if you, there should be, there should be some sort of compromise in between

just recycling the exact same song again versus reincorporating it into a new thing, you know? like that I'm sure there's a compromise yeah but this is one where I actually feel like the reincorporation of the music was a step above what was in has been doing for a while yeah to be honest it actually felt like oh it's like the Zimmer used to know type thing like oh you clearly really cared about this um but like a step above level of effort into it especially for part two's uh use of the music do you feel like it's a wider backlash to it being more public knowledge that he uses like a team of composers a lot of times? That's the open secret.

And I've heard from a lot of people in the music field that it's kind of a thing that everybody knows. So who knows? I don't know. Yeah, he just slaps his name on things that he has students composer. It's apparently what's been happening for a lot of it. But who knows? Like, I mean, he's obviously, theoretically he has,

some talent, right? I don't know. I don't think he's like, I don't think this is an Elon Musk situation or anything. Yeah, he's probably just tired and old. Like, I'd be tired at that point, you know? I'm tired now. I'm 30 years old. And drunk all the time.

Can Hans Zimmer just do a salute at the Oscars? What the fuck? Oh, my God. It was Roman. He was hailing a taxi at the Oscars. It was a Dune salute. He doesn't deserve this hate. I'm sorry, Hans Zimmer.

You're good. You're cool. Yeah, well, he deserves hate sometimes. Well, we got left. Production design. The Brutalist, Conclave, Doom Part 2, Nostveratoo, and Wicked. Wicked's getting it probably, right? Yeah, I was just thinking Wicked's probably got that.

Yeah. Sound. Yeah. It's going to win something. God damn. So if Jake as the person who's seen a complete unknown is there anything about the sound that deserves it being on the nom or would do they just go? This is about music kind of so the sound probably makes sense. The second the second thing.

Because we got complete unknown Amelia Perez and Wicked all on here which is like it just leads me to believe that because they're primed to think about sound because they're music films that they're on. It's very literal. Like fucking the substance could have been on. here easily. The substance had fantastic sound design. There's so much, so much creativity and actual choices that went into the sound design of the substance. Anybody that doesn't know what I'm talking about, just watch the movie again and think about it and it'll become really apparent to you. Like the Foley in that films like incredible. It's genuine. Like so many close shots of just like it's about the visceral nature of the shot. Like we're taking you out of this mundane

wide shot. We're bringing it in. We're going to make you hear the sounds of eating shrimp right now. Right? Like there's so many great shots like that. I think it's insane that it's not nominated for sound. That was one of the best parts. Yeah, no, a complete unknown. It's basically like the other sounds besides singing that are significant are the people booing Bob Dylan in the crowd. You suck. Play acoustic, you loser. And, um, And I can't think of anything. I mean, there's like sounds of cars. It's, it's exactly what you said.

It's just like, oh, yeah, there's music in that. Yeah. That's a sound. It's always so depressing when you can kind of, like, rationalize how the Oscars came to a decision by just doing, like, what's the dumbest thing we can think of? Like, when Trump keeps talking about how, like, oh, they're letting criminals in the country. And then eventually people figured out, like, oh, he thinks that the word asylum, like asylum seeking, he literally thinks that means insane asylum. And he's just confused.

And like, eventually you get there that it's like, oh, this is the dumbest possible explanation, but this is the only explanation we have. We get a lot of those with the academy. Like those exact same types of dumb explanation. Like, oh, oh, you think sound because there's music in it. Oh, I get it. That's why the editing winner is always like the most editing. Whichever had the most editing wins editing.

The most cuts. Yeah. Bohemian Rhapsody. Exactly. Yeah. Embarrassing. No, I think you could make the argument too that Amelia Perez has so many awards because of its representation and the very surface level of, oh, well, there's a trans character, you know.

So this must be a... We're good people. We're all, you know, kind, good people. So this must be a deserving film. And I haven't seen it, so I have no idea. But it's just there's such a dissonance between all of the people who review it and the people in the voting for the Oscars. It's just I don't understand it. It's so strange.

Yeah. You could make that argument to Amelia Perez for sure. I think that that probably does exist. However, at this point in time, it exists in both directions. There's a lot of white people who don't. don't really have an opinion on this movie that are pretending to hate it because they think that it's progressive to it at this point as well. So that argument goes both ways for Amelia Perez. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. Um, honestly, it seems as we're on sound, the two movies that jump into my head that are nowhere on this list anywhere are uh, Furiosa and Civil War. Actually, a couple of films that aren't on here anywhere. True, yeah. But visual effects, speaking of those kind of movies. Alien Romulus, better man, whoop, whoo, doon part two, kingdom of the planet the apes, and wicked. So the monkey movies coming in here, carrying, clearly. You know.

I'm amazed about the better man got on here. Yeah, me too. There's a lot of weird conversation about that film on the internet. People are like, I don't care. I've never heard of this person before. It's like... Very weird. I don't know.

Perez is kind of like steamrolled it. Like there aren't like, there's a good chunk of movies that are biopics that you don't have heard of the person before to care or to watch it. Yeah. That's often like why I want to watch a biopic to like learn. Yeah, when you don't know about someone significant or yeah, in a way that about someone I don't necessarily know. Yeah.

So yeah, that as a critique is funny and weird. I don't know. As an American, I take pride in being ignorant about other cultures. I'm very proud that I don't know who Robbie Williams is and no one's gonna fucking force me too. The thing is about Robbie Williams like I've heard of them and I can probably guarantee you that

like I've heard some of their songs. I wouldn't be able to name them. But if somebody played me one of their most popular ones I'd probably be like oh yeah, I recognize that. I've heard it. In the same way that I've like that's any American pop artist or musician or whatever. Yeah.

Like it's the exact same thing for like fucking Bruno Mars. Like, I know who that is, couldn't name you a song, I'm sure I've heard them, right? So why are people acting like so weird about Robbie? Like, is it genuine? Like, people just in the US are just really anti-Robbie? I think it must be, because if it was like Ed Sheeran or Taylor Swift, I don't think anyone would be saying that. Because I saw some people saying, oh, it's self-indulgent, but it's like, isn't that kind of baked into the cake with biopics? that they're kind of he naturally self-indulgent

that's kind of the point of them is to indulge in oneself and tell their life story like I don't get that as a critique of why you don't want to pay attention and also it's like you got the monkey element he's not just Robbie Williams he's an ape man

is that not intriguing to you that's crazy that's the only reason I saw it was it good I liked it nothing about it should have really worked for me but the craziness of just leaning into that and doing what I wanted from like a Bohemian Rhapsody where it's like just be honest and like ugly and like show me the real like torment of what this fame has done to you.

And so wow, they're actually willing to do that in this crazy movie about someone I don't really care about and with this monkey framing and this is just weird and interesting and yeah, props and no one has gone to see it. So yeah. I mean, yeah, shout out. Rise of the planet of the biopic of the Robbie Williams. I liked it more than Kingdom of the Planet of the Opes, which is up for visual effects, I guess. I find it funny that you watch that.

Why, they're fire. Oh, yeah, you like them, don't you? Yeah. They're like solid monkey Hollywood movies. They're like so inoffensive, like they just, I don't know. They are what they say on the tin type thing to me. Yeah. Yeah.

I like monkeys. You can just imagine them at home and you get the same experience. They're exactly what you expect. No. You watch them on your projector. They're exactly what you expect, yeah. No. Um, yeah, I don't know who deserves to win.

The deep fake Alien Romulus is now, uh... Oh, God. Officially Oscar nombed. I liked that movie. I really enjoyed it, but then that, ugh, that stupid, deep fake technology look. Look, first time, it looked horrible. Also, just don't do it. It was just so unnecessary.

Yeah. What's funny is I heard that they actually touched it up for the home video release, which I think is cheating. That is cheating. Yeah, like, what the fuck? Assholes. Yeah, I saw about that as well. Don't release it.

But I went to check it out and like, it looks the same to me. Okay. It looks just as distracting. Yeah. Yeah, I hope Doom Part 2 would be a good win, in my opinion. Mm-hmm. I think Kingdom of the of the is probably going to get it because there's a lot of like promotion about the special effects. They released on the 4K Blu-ray.

They have a version of the film where you can literally watch it without the special effects. Like the exact same shots. Yes. The raw uncut version. That's so cool. Unfortunately, it is like the film on top and then the rock uncut on the bottom. So you can't just watch just yet. You have to watch it with the comparison

Unless there's like a different way that I don't know of yet But I like that that exists So everybody Everybody fucking buy the of the of the Blu-ray I think it's only on the 4K one Because I want to see more of that shit I think that should be a law Right standard feature

Yeah like you should you should be forced To show us what the movie looks like Without the special effects No literally that should be a fucking law Okay We need that weird ass Harrison Ford movie with a guy

pretending to be a dog without the CG okay we call of a lot about that yeah we need that we need that we need all the Marvel movies without the CG and then it would you know how how great that would be

for creativity for memes you know but I think they're too afraid to do that because they I think people would realize how much is Yeah, just how much is the CG? Yeah.

Somebody, back when the, you know that shitty movie 2012? There was a trailer for that movie. That awesome movie 2012? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a trailer for that movie. And most of the trailer is just like, oh, like all these buildings like falling over. And then he cut to like the interior shot of John Cusack in the car going like, whoa. Somebody took that trailer and then removed all the special effects.

shot, not in the same way that like getting a raw, like, despecialized version of it would be, but like literally just only included the car shots. And it just looks so goofy of just, like, and it's not convincing at all. You're like, wow, you're like, are you even trying to act? And it really just goes to show, like when you're, when you're cutting in between a shot of someone's reaction and then a shot of what they're reacting to, it really helps your brain fill in the gaps and makes it more convinced. It's not like it looked great anyway. But like, Seeing it stripped down to just the performances is just kind of like damning in that way. But yeah, that's also kind of why I want to see these movies without special effects

is because they are very reliant a lot of them. Yeah. I like that of the did that though. I think they're also trying to like promote the idea that like these actors are really performing. Okay. It's not just the CG doing it for them. I'm trying to think of like the craziest movie to take away that would be I would love the avatar movies to do that Yeah, well avatar be good or like the Beowulf Zemeckis movie or whatever like polar express could you imagine how much of an educational tool that would be to young and inspiring filmmakers could you imagine we're missing out on so much so much information that should that should be lost somebody

call, I'm going to call my best friend Donald Trump and Elon Musk and tell them about this. I think they can do it. Okay. We're going to get another EO. But not the donkey movie in executive order. Yeah. Well, I guess when you're the 51st state, I guess you'll be able to write your senator or something. I'm going to be president of Canada.

We're going to fulfill the prophecy. Okay. Okay. Well, I want to be a state. Handing out with these states to everybody. Yeah. I don't want to join them. You don't want to be a state.

What have you got to lose in the UK, right? Yeah, please. Just absorb us. Christ. If you became a state of the US, would things get any worse, potentially even? Like, what's the worst that can happen to the UK? Economy will probably get better. Yeah, right?

Your healthcare might get better. Like, I think things would only improve. Yeah. Like, no joke. You get movies at the same time. Yeah, finally. Yeah, that's crazy. You have to wait for movies all the time.

That's so sad. Yeah, we used to get them early, but it's like just switched in the last five years. Yeah. Thanks, Obama. That was who did it. Getting political here. Right, we're nearly done here. We got two more both writing, writing adapted screenplay first.

We got a complete unknown, conclave, Amelia Perez, nickel boys. and sing sing anything jump out to you guys there um nickel boys i don't know why i i wouldn't i wouldn't put amelia peres for writing that one's kind of weird conclave sucks yeah fuck conclave give it to challengers somebody write in challengers i want the potion seller to have an oscar nom fuck everybody yeah like seriously whatever whatever Queer would have been a great screenplay pick for adapted. True. Jesus.

For adapted. Yeah. Good about both. Actually adapting a William S. Burroughs novel. Like, that's a difficult thing. Mm-hmm. To make that a cohesive screenplay. Academy doesn't know shit.

Fuck them. Have you guys seen Nickel Boys? Not yet. I'm going to be seeing that next week, hopefully. I'm looking forward to it very much. Yeah. Me too. Yeah, I want to see that.

Yeah, that's based off of a novel, I think. Yeah, Colson Whitehead novel. Yeah. And let's wrap this up then on writing original screenplay Anora, the Brutalist, A Real Pain, September 5th, and the substance. I think the substance has got it. Do you know why? Maybe over Anora.

Yes. Do you know why? Because the Academy thinks of writing in concepts. Oh, yeah. And if they, and the substance is a good concept. It's like a really good kind of like black mirror concept. right? Remember, get out one best screenplay. I think this is a similar situation where they just like the fucking promising young woman won best screenplay. Right? This is feminist. It tickles the

good concept, you know, kind of like horror weird thing going on. That's all they care about. I think the substance has got it and I'm happy to see it win an Oscar. So, then again, the Brutalist has the most writing. So. Yeah. Longest screenplay. goes to. Yeah. No, I think your theory is right about the substance. I feel I feel like they just throw it to the fun one for original screenplay.

It's a concept. I've seen some screenshots of the screenplay for the substance. It's so funny. Like, just the level of excitement and detail and kind of like non-traditional writing in terms of how you would imagine a screenplay should be. Coralie is just like, and then you see it takes a chicken wing out of her belly, and then like, you'll see all of these words that don't appear in the film, but are just Coralie's notes to herself, like, yeah, like, just all these excited sounds that I guess she's just making in her head, like, it's fun.

She's, she's very passionate about it, clearly. I like to see that joy of filmmaking. And you can tell from the work, too. Like, you can just watch the movie. You don't even have to see the behind-the-scenes shit to know that it was made with so much love and excitement and passion. That's what I love the most about the substance. Yeah, you can't just tell.

French people are awesome. It's the love of filmmaking personified within a film. All right, we got through all the Oscar Noms. Woo! Yeah, Substance Sweep or Amelia Perez, your choice. Everybody. Damn. We can only have the two.

People are going to be annoyed either way. Part of me wants it to be Amelia Perez sweeping everything just because it'd be really funny. It would be funny. But now I want Conclave to win everything because that would piss you off. I mean, funny too. Yeah, it is. People do like seeing me pissed off. People do find that funny.

That's unfortunately where my success lies on my internet presence. The more angry I get. I think there's a good chance both of those will win one though. I think Conclay's going to win fucking score for no reason. I think I'm literally that cynical in that category. Yeah, I think that actually might. Yeah, I could see that. Because it's the most noticeable because it's the most distracting.

And the academy goes, I noticed the score. I really noticed that. Yeah, yeah. So I think it's winning. Alex, what would you pick for best picture, Alex? Best picture. I'm still waiting on Brutalist because I just got a good feeling about that. but obviously haven't seen it yet.

Substance. I might feel anora over substance personally. You're kind of anora and me right now. Yeah, I think that's where I'd be leaning, actually. Because I get, what's, anora's going to win something. I love Anora. Anora's going to win zero Oscars. It got shut out of the Golden Globes.

Yeah, true. Any major snubs? Challengers. Challenges is the big one Daniel Craig Pizzes me off Civil War No TV glow

I thought there might be something Yeah that could have gotten like a cinematography Or screenplay nod maybe But outside of that I'm not sure And then yeah no look back No Rookobaka Rookubaku And no

Mars Express Whether it was for this year or last year It didn't show up in either year because the Academy only likes French animated films when there's no dialogue and they don't have to read. Yeah. Fuck them. Yeah, I didn't even bother noting that down or thinking about that because I just knew it stood no chance. All right.

So, we saw Craven the Hunter and I think that this is the perfect film to try doing a speed run conversation on it because it's fucking craving the hunter anyway okay this is the last of the Sonyverse it's all that it deserves what did you fucking think about it the sixth and final film in the SSU the shitty Spider-Man universe

oh my god I love this oh you love this was incredible it was fun yeah I was pretty gleeful in some of these scenes just like just like what we're doing with the Oscars is just then trying to reverse engineer like people with money and influence like sat together and like made decisions and

like what did those decisions look like for this this like piece of shit like 110 million all the most talented and creative minds came together with unlimited resources to create this yeah for the ultimate scam scam part six the six the six part of the scam universe. I mean, they're laundering money, right? They have to be laundering money. I mean, you could still launder money and make it more like fun than self-aware. Like, I don't know.

I don't know what's going on. No, this is what $100 million looks like. This is what it looks like, guys. It is sadly what it looks like. What I find very confusing about these types of disasters, so many of them wind up getting put in some kind of like production hell and get delayed and reshoots like I don't even have to look it up I'm pretty sure I remember like that was this was supposed to come out before Madam Webb right and then oh reshoot what I'm wondering about this is like okay when you have something that you know

is not going to work anyway which is why you're doing the reshoots because nobody liked it in the test screenings or whatever why are you spending more money on it like like oh we're going to make it perfect are you seriously you think you can fix this you think the reshoots are gonna make it better, not worse? Just fucking release it. Just go into it with some self-awareness. Just some self-awareness. Just be like, yes, we saw that you were making fun of Morbius.

We saw that you wanted to meme and say it's morbid time. Like, just make something that doesn't take itself so seriously. All the music is so fucking serious. Like, oh, aren't you invested in this epic drama? Like, if it was just playing silly music, exact same movie. It was just playing fun music, you know? Like something along the lines of like an Edgar Wright film, like hot fuzz or, you know, baby drive.

Just play some fun music. And the scenes would be goofy and a lot of them would be fixed, a lot of the action scenes. Instead, it's like, the... It's so annoying. What is the angle? What is the angle? Like, what the fuck are we doing here?

Why is he, why is Craven the Hunter? He's written like Sonic the Hedgehog. Yeah. dialogue was trying to be like this action hero star it's like hunting people down is sort of my thing why is he saying shit like that that was a great impression nice perfume by the way yeah gosh this you're really heavy what the fuck are we doing here with this character like it's the same in every single one of these six Sony spider-man villain universe but every single review is the same fucking things it's like what am I what

supposed to do with this character you remove everything that gives it an identity or a purpose within some kind of story as the villain to spider-man and yeah bringing something out of that character but then you put them by themselves and you don't allow them to be a villain and have to make them into a hero yeah and so then you wind up taking a yeah a character who is known for how ruthless and how he's a big game hunter opening the movie with him going after poachers who he deems to be evil and go again Oh, he's a good guy.

He's like, they try to, they're all good guys. They're all good guys. They try and do like a Dexter type thing where he's like, oh, he's a serial killer, but he only kills bad. He's serial killers. So that makes him good, nudge, nudge, but it's more like, wait, but that doesn't even make, he's still like a roofless, uh, big game killer here. So I don't know what like. He shares the same name and Sony thought that anybody knew who Morbius Madame Webb or Craven was. Like, people know who Venom.

is, right? That's a good green light. It made money. Right? If the goal is money, a Venom movie makes sense. None of these other ones make any fucking sense. I still think out of these four characters, is it four? Yeah, Craven, Venom, uh, Moribus and Manum web.

Yeah. Yeah. You can do something with Venom and you could do something with Craven. You could, I reckon, but it has to be in a Spider-Man story. It has to. Otherwise, like, why are you doing this? in this kind of like film form it's just not gonna work yeah where do we even take this what do we they must have known because it's so it's so like on its face bare face lazy that it's it's

funny to me i'm sat there like laughing at that they have the gall to like charge and even put together a two plus hour movie where like no one cares is is utterly passionless yeah Go for it, Jake. I really liked it. No, I'm just kidding. No, I really like how... I'm going to try to be kind of positive here. Let's see if I can.

I really like how the ADR is really pushed to its limits, you know? Like, they got to get really creative, you know, anytime the shot is on someone else's face who wasn't talking, all of the best exposition comes out, you know? Yeah. You know, it'll just be like people having conversation like, oh, did you know that this happened? Blah, blah, blah. And then it'll cut to someone who wasn't talking. And by the way, we need to get this potion to this place.

And if you drink this, you become a monster. And also, you'll have like James McAvoy superpowers and split. Like, I think that's what his powers were. You can just, like, crawl around and be super fast and strong. And that's cool. I like that. That's wonderful. I like the themes of toxic masculinity in this film. I thought they were done very subtly and tastefully.

I like how Russell Crow is just like, you've got to be a man, you're a little child. You have to be a min. Yeah, and then the guys are like, yeah, no, but let's kill some. people too and also like what is the mission what are the goals I think it's experimental and neat that they just wanted to get rid of the idea of character development and oh a sincere a sincere compliment I do like Fred Hetchinger who plays his brother I think he's a cool actor he was in the White Lotus I like

his performances and he brought a kind of funny self-aware energy to this movie, I thought. Interesting. And a weirdly good casting for that character? Like, I guess, spoilers. Was it the guy that looks like a child? Like the guy with the turtleneck where it made his head look way too big for his body? The guy who could sing perfectly as anyone.

Yeah. The guy who was 80-yard also more. Yes. Yeah, cool. Okay, I remember. Yeah, what was the... Did Christopher Abbott's character have powers? Because, like, what was he doing?

Oh, someone needs to explain what was going on. He was a character called The Foreigner, and he'd count down from three, and something would happen. He's, like, moving first, or time is stopping or being played with, but I couldn't... It never actually, like, explains, like, what is happening. You like turn someone's gun around, but then they never fire the gun. So, what is happening? According to the character's wiki, like from the comic, it says, the foreigner has no superhuman abilities.

However, he has trained his body to be in peak physical condition. So, either they took some liberties or like, I don't, okay, what's happening here? I'm going to have to go to this other article. I don't know what was happening. But like, in the film, what were we supposed to infer? by what we were sharing or told. I don't know if he was stopping time or hypnotizing them. It's got to be a rights issue, right?

Yeah, it must be. Screen rant article says the foreigner possesses incredible psionic powers that allow him to freeze how the people he fights against experience time. So he's not freezing time. He's hypnotizing them. This disorienting power leaves his opponent's defenseless for several seconds as they reel from the experience attempting to even put together where and when they are.

This power which is rooted in kind of hypnotism is seen in the Marvel comics, despite having no superhuman strength or senses. The foreigner is able to seem like he is moving at superhuman speed by messing with the perception of those he fights against. So he's able to do this really quickly. He doesn't need to like lull anyone into anything. They don't even need to be close enough to him for them to hear what he's saying.

He just kind of says the word three and then they're just hypnotized. Which is pretty fun. It would have been nice if the film like communicated that in some way. Yeah, it was kind of confusing. Even you guessing. Well, I was so confused. I was so confused at the end when he has like Craven and he's like has him on the ground and he's pointing a gun at him and he starts counting down like three, two, one.

And I forgot that that was his like power thing where he'd count down. And so I'm just sitting there like, like you're just sitting, why are you counting down? Where are you counting down? And then he gets shot, right? It's just, it was so stupid. Like all of these Sony movies, they have... Oh, yeah, and she heard him saying it too when she shot him. Yeah, yeah, but these like side characters that are like superheroes, like Ariana

DeBose, she was also apparently like a superhero character in the comics. And Venom did this too where they're just throwing in like C-list, D-list characters and it's got be to maintain the rights, right? I don't know. Yeah. I have no idea. Definitely. That's what it feels like.

There's a cynical reason for everything. That's all we know. Yeah. I don't know. That's what it seemed like to me. Because otherwise, like, why does she need to be like a named comic character? It added nothing and it was just convoluted. Just for the fans.

They go, dude, it's the foreigner. It's Pride Rock. Yeah. You know, it's funny, it's funny because we really did get no character development, but despite that there was a 30-minute flashback sequence where we learned about him getting his powers. It's like the whole first act. That was very long. That was painful. I was like, I can't believe we're still in this.

It's so clunky. This movie just took fucking forever to get to where it was going. Oh, my God. I was enjoying the silly action, not unironically or anything, but at least it was stimulating in some way where I was like, okay, if the whole movie was this, then this would be a good, bad movie for me. He's like water skiing through London off a helicopter. I was like laughing good at that, like in the disgusting Thames, like skiing on everyone's shit. Yeah, the action was terrible. Anytime there's like a big CG animal, there's a scene where's got like.

There were a lot of them. Like a snow leopard? It's awesome. Yeah. Very odd. Yeah, those scenes like carry me through it. It was frustrating. It was a very painful film to sit through.

The villain villain. It makes me feel sad. It makes me feel happy, man. It's the difference between you and me. The Craven, like, Craven is the main character and they're like, oh, so I guess we need a villain for Craven to go up against. Let's just pull another random. Spider-Man villain, I guess. Yeah.

Let's just get the rhino in there. Oh, yeah. The rhino was in it. I quoted him from the beginning, I already forgot. It's like the Bain version of Rhino. Yeah. He's kind of more like a bane thing going on where he's got like a chemical that's stopping him from being in his rhino state. Like a tube going into it.

Bring back Paul Giamatti. Yeah. We never even got a fight scene with him, remember? We never even got to see him fight. You at least get to see him fight. fight scene. Just bring back Paul. You get a better rhino fight scene and craving the hunter than in the Spider-Man movie. He was last in. So, um... I was just going to say that the rhino's character, uh, he just like went to someone in New York to give him superpowers and he has it now because

Russell Crow was kind of mean to him once. And that's his character. He's just like, I'm a tough guy. Now, see, again, the theme of toxic masculinity explored so, uh, beautifully in this film. It was very touching. Yeah. I think it's funny that, oh, spoilers, he winds up just like sticking something into his side. He's like, oh, this is your kind of like belly button, not really. This is your tube area.

So it's probably your weak point because that's where you're not getting armor. But all I was thinking is like, he's got eyeballs. That would probably be even better. Like, you could, you could, his eyes aren't covering up with armor every time he shifts, right? Just stick it through his head. You want to kill him. Whatever. I guess he didn't want to kill him.

I'd love the look of that, though, outside of that. He was just, he's such a good guy. He didn't want to kill him. You're saying you know how to kill rhinos very well and you like to do it. Got it. Yeah. There's a specific way to do it that we should all be aware of. I'm glad that that's your passion.

Killing rhinos is your passion. I'm just, I just make sure I'm prepared. Like, if I've ever find myself in that particular situation, I know what to do. Right? So don't be unprepared. Don't catch you slipping up. If I'm ever face to face with a nearly extinct rhino, I know how to fucking kill it. Or a guy that has weird powers that he says he's a rhino. Go for the eyes. Yeah.

There's an article, an interview with Sony Picture CEO, Tony Vinclair. I don't know how to pronounce his name. So I got to say for himself. Recently told the Los Angeles Times that Craven the Hunter is probably the worst launch we had in the nearly eight years he's been at the studio adding I still don't understand because the film is not a bad film. They're saying it's not bad.

There's more to this. It's very funny. Let's just touch on Madam Webb for a moment. Vin Sequeira said. Madam Webb underperformed in the theaters because the press just crucified it. It was not a bad film and it did great on Netflix. For some reason, the press decided that they didn't want us making these films

out of Craven and Madam Webb and the critics just destroyed them. They also did it with Venom, but the audience loved Venom and made Venom a massive hit. these are not terrible films they were just destroyed by the critics in the press for some reason that's like the most insane out of touch thing that you could possibly fucking say because in the

cognitive dissonous here already you're already saying they hated venom too but the audience loved it and it did well so it's like okay well then you're admitting that people aren't just fucking going to meta-critic and rotten tomatoes like the

average film goer like sure they might be aware of those things, but they're still, they're going to watch a movie that seems interesting to them, right? Craven and Madam Webb would have been hits too if the audiences liked it. So don't blame the fucking critics. For some reason, the critics didn't want people watching it. Fuck you. Go outside. Become a real person. Stop being a billionaire. Or however much money you have. That's harsh. That's crazy. Yeah. I don't know, Adam. I feel like it's your fault that Craven underperform. Yeah. No, but that's how they're talking to each other.

That's what I, God, I wish I could be a fly on the wall and just listen to the way they speak to each other. I want to be friends with them. These projects, don't we? Yeah. Just to listen to them. Just cross your arms and listen and hear the crazy shit they have to say. Because it's, what do you mean for some reason, for some unexplained reason? Shouts it up.

Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. He says the studio needs to rethink how it moves forward with its Spider-Man universe tent pole. he says, it's snakebitten. If we put another one out, it's going to get destroyed, no matter how good or bad it is, he told the LA Times. No, you could make a good one,

and people would like it. The critics would enjoy it if you made something that wasn't like literally just a fucking scam. Like, look at the film you made. Look at the film that you funded. Craven the Hunter. Tell me a single fucking part of it where you're offering anything to the language

of filmmaking or even entertainment. What do you think you're offering? Legit. What are you adding? What are you adding to the language of cinema? Or entertainment. Even slop. What are you doing?

What are you offering? You have to offer something. What do we get? Nothing. Just memes. That's literally all they're offering with movies. Not even with this movie. Just the fucking weird sound that Rhino makes.

That's it. That's the only meme. There are a couple good ones. No, but you cannot underestimate that one. You cannot understate the power of that moment. I rewound that scene literally about 20 times. I thought like something was wrong with the version I was watching or like I thought I'd like finally snapped. But I genuinely replayed that so many times because it was like what was the direction here?

What were they trying to communicate with this sound that the villain is making? I don't think you guys get like where I was mentally when I saw this. This was the first movie that I reviewed after our baby was born. So I was like going off. I probably hadn't slept for 48 hours and I'm sitting in the theater and like hallucinating this movie. And then that happens. And I legitimately thought I had made that up after I saw it. I had to ask people.

I was like, was that in that? Really? But that is the best part. And that's what's sad, you know, and that like. It's a breath of fresh air. It's a moment of letting. But it sideswipes you in such a way where it's like, what? Yeah, did that actually happen?

This film's like gaslighting me as it's going. It's, yes, actually crazy. Yeah. This should be best editing because I think this has the most editing, you know? I mean, imagine how much work. These poor editors, team of editors trying to scrap something together out of this. I mean, I think most bad movies probably should win best editing because who knows what they had to fucking work with here.

That was literally the fucking campaign for Bohemian. me in Rhapsody was like the director quit halfway through because people found out he was a pedophile. Oh, they just realized it all of a sudden. No, no. They had to scrap it together with reshoots from like three different directors. They're like, damn, this editor saved the movie even though it still is bad. Like, might as well give it to fucking Craven at that point. Yeah, they've got a tough job trying to stitch together these things that like nobody even knows what's in the movie. You know, nobody has a fucking vision. It's like 10 different visions and nobody else knows what the fuck is going on.

Oh, Sony Pictures CEO. What a guy. But he's got a big boat though. Call us. Imagine saying it's not a bad film. And I don't understand. Imagine saying those words. I liked it.

I liked Craven, actually. We're Sony. We loved it, actually. We're proud of it. Yeah, re-release it again. You guys would just hate it. We were all busy that weekend. Can you re-release it in theaters?

Like, do it Morbius. There's no such thing as a good or a bad movie. There's only profitable movies or unprofitable ones. Yeah, to them they think that's the same thing. Because he's like, it did great on Netflix. Yeah, Madam Webb did awesome on Netflix. Like, yeah, people watched it when they didn't have to pay extra money for it on a subscription that they already had.

People watched it on their fucking couch when they didn't have to leave the house. And they could just brain rot and see how, bad it was. Yeah, people watched it in that scenario. Isn't that crazy though, that like a movie as bad as Madam Webb would still do crazy numbers on Netflix simply because it was released theatrically and there's like a kind of like an expectation of quality, even though there isn't a higher quality there, but it's like, oh, at least it was in theaters. You know, someone tried to show this to people and it's just weird how I feel like any movies we're going to be remembering from here on out, like, it's all, they're all going to have theatrical distributions

because I don't think just streaming movies, like, no one cares about them. Yeah. I don't even think it's like an expectation of quality. It's like an expectation of a cultural conversation. You know, like, nobody liked fucking Rise of the Skywalker. Nobody liked Jurassic World Dominion. People were all saying, don't see it, but everybody saw it. Both of those movies made like over a billion dollars or whatever.

Like people, people wanted to just be a part of a conversation because they knew other people were talking about a thing. Like, it doesn't even have to do with the quality anymore. People just want to feel like they fit in. Yeah. People, they watch things differently on streaming too.

There's something like passive about it. Yeah, on your phone. You look at like the top, the top tens of like what's being streamed. It's like those random shit or like stuff from decades ago. It is, yeah.

It feels like less of like a purpose or, yeah, I've made an effort to go out and see this, movie at this time. Yeah, so yeah, shit like Red Notice or whatever is what gets the eyes, the streams. All right. We got to, we got to move along, but there's one more thing I want to talk about in this conversation about Craven. I think it's fucking funny and sad that they were marketing this as an R-rated film. Like, who knows how far into the production they decided that that would be the case? Because a lot of it is literally just like, oh, you have CG blood here.

There is. You know, or it's just like a single shot where it's like, okay, otherwise this would have been a PG-13 movie. They said fuck twice, very brave. But it's so frustrating. Seeing this happen time and time again, especially with Sony, where it's almost as if they're testing the waters for this sort of thing. Like, let's see if we could do an R-rated superhero movie, which they should have done with Venom from the get-go, but they were too fucking pussy.

They had no faith in the ability to do that because they just don't understand, you know, art, but they're like, let's test the waters with Craven. But they only ever test the waters with projects that they have no faith in in the first place. Right? So this thing that's destined to fail, they'll use as evidence as to why they can't possibly do an R-rated superhero film or anything like that. Like, oh, this one didn't work. We tried it with this project that was going to fail anyway and it didn't work.

Go fuck yourselves. I hate that mentality. These people are insane. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh, let's let a woman direct a Marvel movie. Oh, it sucked. Wow. I guess it's, we can't let women do that anymore. Sorry. You see the numbers here. One shot. Anything else about Craven? You guys have any strong opinions on anything else? It was very boring. It was. It was just sad. I'm sad. Yeah, but it's sad. I'm sad it's over this franchise, this side series.

It was, I was thinking it's like an inverse like Cohen situation for me. We were saying with like no country where every single character that comes in, side character or not, one scene or two scenes, a handful of scenes that make this impression. This film does something similar, but in like the inverse way where every new character, every side character, every bit part somehow is worse than the previous one. It makes you forget more. It's crazy. Yeah, like these little side characters will just say one line. It's like, how do you even say a line that short so badly? How do you even do that?

Yeah, it's just crazy, this film. Yeah. And the only positive I can really get from it is that hopefully this film bombing quite as badly as it has. Hopefully that cancels out what Venom 3 did make. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, there's always a silver line.

this is a half a star with a like I love the glowing up animal eyes all these animal CG shits is so dumb but yeah don't pay money to see well I mean Alex now that we're done with the Sony spider verse are you going to do a retrospective review I think it's time I feel like that would be incredible yeah I think it's time nice good idea what do you give it out of 10 or five or whatever the fuck you do. Jake. I have like two out of ten.

Two out of ten? Nice. I'm giving it a two out of ten. So, whatever. Okay. It's funny how a little charisma Craven had. He tried.

There were moments where he tried to be intimidating. There were moments where he tried to be, you know, kind of watchable, and it just did not work ever. He didn't know what the fuck to do. No sense of, direction, not much script to work with when he was talking with the female lead, it was like, wow, you guys have never talked to human

beings before ever. You never met, yeah. This is the first time you've met each other yet. Yeah, the whole cast is like that, though. Yeah, fascinating. Thanks, Sony. We appreciate your brave sacrifices and contributions to the language of cinema. RAP.

All right. Introduce the thing. Yeah, so I just had to splash some cold water on my face from that. Oh, the giggles bad from that rhino shit. Someone about that just like really broke me that. That rhino sound. Wow. It's a classic.

Yeah, I'm going to like clip that and put it on my phone and watch that tape. I love that shit. But anyway, my recommendation for this episode was the 2002 Curtis Hansen directed 8 Mile. Um, M&M movie. That's not supposed to be an M&M movie. That should be the title instead of eight mile is just Eminem movie. Eminem the movie. Yeah, because I got part of why I wanted to talk about this and choose this as I was saying earlier with the whole biopic phenomena.

Somehow Eminem just passed me by. Even though I'm like the perfect age for it, I remember the music videos on MTV and everything, but I just, wasn't paying attention, I guess. Well, like, gorillas and Duff Punk and all of that were like really speaking to me. I just, I don't know, I somehow missed Eminem. I'm that one guy that missed Eminem. So I figured, do you know what? This movie I've seen it there, it's got good reviews. I've seen a couple other Curtis Hanson movies, which I remember enjoying. It's been a very long time since I've seen LA Confidential. That's the one I remember best and thought, hey, maybe I can learn something about Eminem today. How about that? Let's check out this biopic. And then, yeah, of course, I figure out this, the approach, Eminem's approach to this biopic was that he specifically didn't want it to be autobiographical per se. Well, that's what he says. Just like, kind of. But kind of, yeah. And I guess I kind of need your guys to help explain this to me because I don't.

Yeah. He said he didn't want this to be a vanity project about his life. I. But that's, how is it not that? Well, I have a theory. that he probably maybe would have... Yeah, I think people were itching for that sort of thing, but he couldn't do it because by this point,

his mom had already sued him. And he settled for $10 million, because he, you know, a lot of his raps would be about how, like, she was abusive and, like, a drug user, and, you know? And so, I don't know, I feel like that kind of... At that point, which this, this, I think, chronologically, was after his third.

his third big album, the M&M show, by this point he had already written in the song, you know, I just settled on my lawsuit, fuck you, Debbie, which was a reference to the $10 million settlement. So I think that, yeah, that probably prevented that from, that probably is the reason why we'll never get like a full real biopic for M&M. And also the mom character in this was not nearly as bad as like what you'd imagine based on his lyrics. Yeah, I just kind of wasn't a. expecting the ultra focus on a smaller portion of his life and more of like a character study type angle instead of a classic like rags to riches his generation at the beginning. This was when I was poor and didn't have anything, blah, blah, blah, before it all kicked.

And then going through the career and the highs and lows or problems with fame that come with it. And I know there's like drugs in there somewhere too, but it's really not going for that kind of angle. It's also not a heavy musical either. It's almost more like a like a sport movie kind of structure with like a like a, yeah, like a, yeah, like a battle of the bands type thing where it's like two rivals and it's all building up to this one event towards the end and it's not like a traditional musical where you're really seeing like I want songs or this kind of thing from the perspective of the main character trying to like explain their world. It's more like quite realistic as far as how it's the musical elements are depicted in the movie, which I kind of like. But I'm also kind of torn because I'm like, I'm left watching this with the conclusion of what I don't really know much more about him. I can kind of infer some stuff with what I assume isn't too exaggerated for the sake of a movie. But then I'm just wondering what?

So is this more just for fans of Eminem already? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. also and yeah you don't really learn much about Eminem's life through this film it's an Eminem movie for Eminem fans basically yeah so it's kind of like the inverse of what I saying earlier about like the Robbie Williams better man yeah it's like someone I don't really care about or don't really know anything about but I wind up learning a lot about

a person and how they carry themselves and how they feel about something or their journey through something whereas this is I don't know it's quite a formulaic rags to Riches type story. Okay. So first question, if you missed out on Eminem, does that mean you forgot about Dre? No, I know about Dre. Nobody understands my jokes. That's fine.

I always miss your music jokes. I know. It's okay. Somebody in the comments always points it out. Do you ever catch those? Do you ever look in the comments and see when people say it? Oh, I see them every time, yeah, because I'm there in the moment. I didn't catch that one.

That's right. Whatever. If you want to know anything about Eminem, you can just ask me. I did, like, book reports on this guy when I was growing up. I was a huge fan. I would love to know about Eminem right now because I know little to nothing about Eminem. So, yeah, he basically, his story is one where he experienced a lot of poverty. grew up in bad neighborhoods, experienced a lot of, you know, tension and bullying at school.

He got, like, beat up to the point where he was, like, in a coma. He wrote a song called Brain Damage About it. And part of what I really loved about his music is even though that his music does have autobiographical qualities, they're also still, like, fun and exaggerative. So if you listen to the song Brain Damage, which is actually one of my favorite tracks, probably, he gets really creative with it it's not just like oh I'm telling a literal story about something that happened but he uses the story

as inspiration kind of in a similar way to if you see like a stand-up comedian relaying some sort of anecdote you know that it's not like a literal oh this happened but it might be inspired by something that actually happened in their life and so throughout his music something that he managed to do

which was really interesting is he took these characters in his life. So his wife, his daughter, his mother, and the way that he talked about each of them consistently throughout his records, especially his first few, or his first few big ones, they almost became kind of like these weird characters in like a narrative,

like as if you're watching a television show or like a reality show where you hear more about these people and you hear more about like the relationship he has with them. And because his music is so, visionary in terms of how he writes his lyrics. He's not just like, it's a very different approach than the rhyme scheme or narrative flow of someone like MF Doom, right? Where, you know, sometimes it's like a little, you have to listen quite a few times to understand like what the themes are,

what someone's really getting at. Whereas with M&M, it's pretty clear, like, in terms of a narrative story, like the song Stan. He's basically creating like a stage play out of his music. He's telling a cohesive story while still retaining very complex rhyme schemes that have, you know, several syllables in each verse rhyming into the next one, into the next one times 10, still managing to tell like a very cohesive, listenable story in a very, um, a very emotional way. And, uh, What I love about his music is he's able to hit these weird, sad, serious tones. He's able to very much hit the angry tones. But he's also able to hit very funny comedic tones.

A lot of his hits, you know, like without me and The Real Slim Shady. There's so much comedy to it and this sense of like countercultural backlash. He got popular at the right time in terms of it being a response to like ideas of, like, ideas of censorship. They had just started putting like parental advisory, explicit content labels on records. And so there was obviously this weird

like, you know, backlash against the idea of self-censorship and people just wanted to be, you know, like, fuck the government, fuck, I won't do what you're telling me sort of thing, anti-establishment. And so all of these elements together, and of course, along with

his producer, Dr. Dre, creating like some of the best absolute best 90s 2000s hip hop beats so fucking catchy so fucking listenable super talented guy all of that together just wound up creating this phenomenon where everybody

had to know who this guy was especially also because he was the you know the first really big really talented white rapper that was actually doing something meaningfully artistic you know like you know you could make the argument maybe sure Beastie boys

they have their own strengths or, you know, but it's not quite the same. Like, he, he almost reimagined the genre in a way, or at least just popularized it based on his own personal strengths. And so a lot of this, a lot of who he is, and a lot of his character persona of his music is found in eight mile, you know, like in terms of, uh, his character, by the end of the film, spoilers everybody for eight mile. His character winds up essentially embodying the idea of, hey, I'm flied. It's pretty clear and evident to everybody around me that I'm flawed, but I'm going to, before anybody uses that as ammunition against me, I'm going to promote the

idea that I'm aware of my flaws. And I'm going to hold them out on display. And not only am I going to create a sense of almost vulnerability from that, I'm actually going to be strong because of it. And I'm going to show you that I actually don't care about all of these shortcomings in my life and that I'm using them as a weapon against you, right? And so that that is very much an idea embodied in the character in this film that is also embodied in, you know, the real life character, Marshall Mather's Eminem found in his music. And part of the reason that I very much connected with it when I was younger. And yeah, still do. Yeah, I can see that, but also the best part of what you just described, how he's like bareface and is who he is. And the kind of rap battles you get towards the end are like what I was expecting more, what I want to see from the character. But it is kind of restricted to the final 20, 25 minutes. Yeah. And the rest of the movie was more like a serious drama.

And I'm like, well, I kind of want to see and learn about the, the creative side of this. You get the odd, like, scribbling on the bus, like lyrics scenes, but it's never really indulged in beyond the odd thing here or there. It's more about his relationship with his mom or his friends or his rivalries, as opposed to going into the creative process. So I kind of had this feeling more towards the end of like, oh, where was this? Like, this is kind of why I'm here. And you do get it right there towards the end. But it's also a two-hour-long, like, film. And yeah, just that kind of structure of these kind of biopics where it is very sort of paint by numbers.

And like, yeah, you have the girl that kind of falls for him on the spot and they don't really have that much between them. That doesn't feel like a very deep relationship, whatever. And yeah, there's the stuff going on with his mom. But it never really feels like particularly fleshed out to me. Yeah, it did feel like it needed that extra bump of having to be a fan of him already. Very much so. thing I did like though, outside of a lot of other biopics I have seen, him being in there and his performance actually being solid and fine and not distracting, that did make it stand

out to me as far as like, oh, I'm glad they're actually in there. It's not someone that doesn't feel like doing a bad impression or, yeah, feeling like they're just dressing us as somebody that does help it carry it along. But kind of glad that you're, Jake, you're also not the biggest M&M dude. So I'm curious how this kind of hit you as well, because I was left kind of wanting more as far as learning about him as an individual. I also got kind of sprinklings of what I want to see. But how did it hit you?

Yeah, no, that's something I thought about too. I was like, oh, great, I'm going to learn a little bit about Eminem. I feel like I learned nothing. And I'm kind of happy about that, you know, because like it could have been more of the cliche biopic like, all right, here's how he did this and et cetera, et cetera. And I liked how it was very focused on just this one period in his life. And it doesn't have a really like strong narrative momentum. It's just kind of like, all right, things get worse and worse and then they get better.

And it is like a sports movie, very much like rocky structurally. And that really worked. And I think that Eminem was just like he has like an authentic presence on screen. That was really engaging, fun to watch. I just loved seeing all of these actors from the early two, Britney Murphy. I love seeing Kim Bassenger and Michael Shannon as the shitty boyfriend. I was like, oh, my God, it's Michael Shannon. I did think it was very funny that he was like the same age as Eminem as his character,

be rabbit. Like, damn, okay, that does suck. Like, oh, yeah, your life is pretty bad. And for a movie, like, of this era, It is kind of like the Hollywood version, but as authentic as you'd expected, I guess. I mean, there's a lot to look into like the class dynamics, the race dynamics in this movie, what it's trying to say. But ultimately, like, my wife, Nadia, she loves this movie.

And when I said, like, oh, yeah, we're going to be talking about eight miles. She was like, oh, my God, that was my favorite. movie in high school. You know, she's like, she's like, I'd watch it all the time. And I, I never had that experience with this. But I was like, okay, cool. And I get why like a high schooler or like a younger person would be so into this because it's about like investing in yourself. Yeah. Finding confidence in yourself. And it is, there's like the positive aspect to that, especially when you're younger of like, yeah, I just want to do it. I just want to win. And I need to grind and that's kind of the climax of the movie is after he wins the rap battle he's like no

i got to go to work i got to go grind and hustle and um do it on my own and and you guys aren't really you guys are kind of holding me back basically and it is kind of like an antisocial perspective and i was thinking of this in comparison to whiplash almost like um what does it take to be successful and whiplash i think is very ambivalent about like um throwing everything into your art and whereas this is like, yeah, that's what you got to do. And it's a really good thing to be done with these losers who are holding you back. And, um, yeah, but I totally get it. Like, it is an invigorating movie. It is, um, um, not what I expected in a really good way. It's very inspirational capitalist propaganda. Yes. Yeah. Sure. No, yeah, I, I connected with

lot of that when I was younger for sure you make some good points about that in terms of like what it's going for thematically like inspirationally the grind it does connect to a lot of you know people like myself that turned into fucking workaholics and now I'm trying to find a way out of it yeah yeah yeah I feel like that that approach that makes it stand out having it be more of a like focus slice of his life does also kind of end up hurting it with like what you'd need to add for that approach to kind of pay off more. Like for example, the stakes for the character that they're quite clear as far as like, yeah, he's impoverished and he's motivated to do this to get out of the situation he is in.

But it will undercut itself at certain points like, tell me if I'm just like missing or misinterpreting something to do with the mother character who's undercutting. continuously going on about the this bingo thing she's into she kind of wins three thousand dollars at a certain point for some reason yeah kind of alleviates some of that I guess tension of like that that was part of it they early on in the movie moves back in with his mom and there is a like more of a ticking element of like I need to move I need to get out of here I need there's a sense of urgency to the situation I'm in but it would do little things like that like

look I just won thousands of dollars at bingo and it's like what how's that really a assisting the like narrative the way it's moving it does kind of feel like it's plodding or like his I don't feel like I'm there with the character as far as like I don't feel like this investment in these rap battles you're happening it doesn't feel like the world is on your shoulders it feels almost like too nonchalant I'm like I want to see some of that humor of the character I want to see more of a range from this character and like his struggles to get to so when he gets that win at the end it feels like a more of an impact That's interesting, because I definitely do feel, like my favorite scenes are the rap battles. And I guess like when you look at the psychology of this character and how he's like investing every single ounce of his, you know, free time and creativity, like this is obviously his passion. And then obviously with the added idea of everybody going into this movie knowing it's Eminem and knowing that he did, you know, grind until he made it sort of thing, you know, the success story out of poverty.

I think that that does add to those scenes kind of inherently through that, but you're right that maybe like the film itself isn't like communicating that as well as it could. But yeah. Yeah, because I was thinking like if you want to make a biopic or be involved in cinema and just looking at his quotes saying that he didn't want it to be like autobiographical in any way, then I don't know, we've seen what that can look like in something like dancer in the dark where like Bjork isn't playing herself, she's playing a character,

she's doing something, and it's still got a musical element, she's still wrote the music for it and still told a story. That's really what I'm more looking for, I think, out of that, like, creative juice, that creative energy,

whereas this just feels more like, yeah, it's kind of a unique angle that you're taking, but the way this is carried out and followed through, there's nothing really about the presentation or the artistry of how it was put together, that I really am left thinking about. It's more just like scenes of M&M being M&M

that I could kind of watch on YouTube, I guess, and get a more authentic, genuine experience from. With how the story was kind of approached and structured, I'm thinking if you changed the director, you could make something really interesting out of it. So here's two suggestions. Either Aeronovsky or, Harmony Corrine.

Like that you could get some really interesting things out of out of those two directors tackling this same subject the same concept, I think. Well, it's funny you said that actually because I'm pretty sure Danny Boyle was attached. Oh really? And it was him and Curtis Hanson like head to head. And it wound up Eminem, I think, had a better chemistry or whatever with Curtis Hanson and went with him over him. But I'm just picturing now like a Boyle movie with.

that kind of energy maybe attached to this could work a lot better. Maybe that's where my issues are with it is that kind of flat direction. Yeah. To this. Yeah, it's not super ambitious in terms of like the filmmaking at all. And even in the writing, you know, like, it does kind of meander and a lot of the characters kind of feel cartoony, not just in terms of how they're written, but also performed. You know, fucking.

Yeah. That's his name. MC Bob, the comedic relief character that shoots himself in the leg. It makes enough sense because those are you know, the film is filled with enough memorable moments frequently enough to make it watchable

especially for a 13 year old in 2002. Right? Like it's, I can see why it worked for me even though I don't love the movie and I never like, you know, consider it to be like one of my favorites. But it was definitely like, oh, I remember things about this movie. I remember them shooting paintballs. I remember him shooting himself in the leg, right? And then, you know, it being attached to this, you know, one of the biggest songs of all time. It was a hit when it came out at one of Eminem and Oscar. Lose yourself, right? Like, that being

the theme, you know, of the movie and the, being able to hear the song on the radio and kind of envisioning the visuals of the movie, right? Like Eminem's a very great visual storyteller in his lyrics. Palms are sweaty. Knees weak. Arms spaghetti. There's spaghetti on my spaghetti already. Mom's spaghetti.

He's spaghetti. Like those are some very visual lyrics. Mm-hmm. Where you just think about spaghetti. I was really sad. I was sad that that song was just the credits. And then the stupid. Amazon Amazon app thing like change the movie I'm like oh finally I'm listening to this oh great

now we're like watching some Bridgeton or some shit you know yeah but that song it's a good song and I think that I just wish it was incorporated into the movie somehow but you know something we're talking about like different directors I do think like this movie if it were made today would be very different and there'd be different choices about like the perspective mainly because it is about like a white rapper in a typically black-dominated genre. And I think like that would be, there would be more mindfulness about who is writing the story, who's telling the story. I mean, Curtis Hansen is kind of like, from what I can tell, he's kind of like a workmanlike director

kind of taking on various projects in a traditional mold. And yeah, someone different with more of a style. That'd be super interesting to see. But also, I was surprised. I mean, the movie's like self-aware about this. Like, one of the characters even says, like, oh, you know how white people can go into a traditionally black field and they'll, you know, be more likely to find success. And that's, it was interesting, too, how the movie ends kind of with Eminem being like, I, my life is harder than yours and I'm white, so what do you, you know, like how, how tough are you?

Like, it was just really interesting from a lens of being in, you know, 2025 and how the, I guess, the politics, the social perspective has changed a lot that I wonder how this story would be told now. Yeah, there would, I think inherently have to be some sort of like more acknowledgement of that. not necessarily explicitly, like, literally told as dialogue, but, you know, some more mindfulness in terms of how the story is written or structured or what they're showing, I guess. I'm not sure. It's an interesting and unique situation, and Eminem is, like, such a, you know, interesting and unique character in real life, like, for him to break out into that scene.

And, you know, from more or less being accepted by the non-white, rap community, um, mostly, you know, a, in great deal because not only is he talented, but because he, he did have experience with, you know, like poverty, right? And he, he knew the struggle. And I think that that's what a lot of people care about at the end of the day is, you know, you don't want to see fucking vanilla ice showing up being like, oh yeah, I'm one of the streets. So hello fellow street people. Let's get the Drake biopic. Yeah. Oh, God, don't get me started on fucking shit. That's just conclave.

It's the Drake bio. Man, I got to see Conclave. How does Drake come up and Concliffe? Well, because it's the, he's a pedophile. Oh, right, right. Whoop right over my head. Yeah, it's, uh, there, it's not a great film. And honestly, you know, Eminem is an.

actor, I think he does a better job than you should expect from him. But still, there's plenty within the film where I'm, like, not convinced. He does pretty good job in the, like, angry scenes, but there's, there's some moments where I'm like, yeah, I'm not sure, buddy. But still. Yeah. And it's hard, he is just Eminem. You're like watching Eminem. I doesn't feel like you're, like watching a character. You're watching Eminem play Eminem. Oh, I'm kind of curious. How did he follow up his career after this movie? Because you'd think he'd be in other big movies? Did he like try to do more of an acting career or like what happened?

Let's see. Just like random cameos, I think. Well, he's in like the interview and funny people I remember. That was a lot later. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, his career, I'm just looking up the dates for this. When did Encore come out? Because that was the first album that was like kind of shit.

Yeah. Encore came out. it was kind of bad then his best friend died then he got addicted to a bunch of pills then he made more really bad albums then he made an album about how he only made bad albums people people liked it more

because he's like I hate the other albums I've made and then people liked that one more and then he made another album and then the critics didn't like it and then he made another album complaining about how the critics didn't like his other album and now he's like he's got enough he's got like enough tracks recently that that are like

decent enough that people like him again. But just in terms of like the whole picture, the whole product of an album, he hasn't made a great album since like debatably the Eminem show in like 2002 for me. So if anybody hasn't listened to Eminem and you would like to, I would go with slim shady LP, then the Marshall Mathers LP, make sure you don't get Marshall Mathers LP too because that sucks and it's bad and it's not the same. And then M&M show is a good album, but just not, I don't know, like half of it's not as great. Just Slim Shady and Marshall Mathers are the two really, really great ones.

Listen in that order. But what about his movie career, though? Like, did he do any other movies right after this? No. No dramatic. No, just cameos and comedies it looks like. Yeah. I mean, like, I don't know if he was ever trying to make it as an actor.

I think he was just kind of trying to... capitalize on him being the biggest fucking star in the world at the time. I mean, this is the best, I mean, this is the best advertisement for his, you know, music. Yeah. He gets to be an Oscar winner. Yeah. Yeah. I paid off to $41 million budget, $242 million gross.

So, yeah. It would have been happy with that in 2002. Yeah. I would watch, you know, I enjoyed the rap battle scene so much. I was thinking, like, I could. watch a rap battle themed movie that doesn't have anything to do in Eminem. I could totally watch a rap battle movie. Yeah, if that was the stride, I'd way prefer that.

Yeah. If you know, like, each act was around some significant rap battles. Yeah. I'd way prefer that. Like a sports movie, but people are artistically insulting each other. That's like, it's so ideal. Like epic rap battles. Yeah.

Yeah. The movie. Yeah. Epic rap battles of history, the movie. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Drake versus the Pope. Well, that's my final.

I've got to turn that off. Sorry. Oops. Drake versus the Pope. Epic rep battles, yeah. I mean, I feel like we're sitting on like a hundred million dollar movie ideas right here. So, Sony, uh, if you're listening. Sony, hit me the fuck up.

Yeah. Come on. I could fix like half of your movies just by not being a multimillionaire. and just having like one grounded suggestion. Do you know how many things I could just have fixed about Craven? Just make it a like more bearable. Just a little bit more bearable. That's it.

Make it fun. God. All you need is like an idea from somebody that's not like so fucking detached. Yeah. I mean, I got to say, I had fun watching this movie. I think that 8 Mile was a lot of fun. I'm really glad you recommended it because I wouldn't have watched it before otherwise.

And also, Nadia had a fun time watching it with me. Good. Yeah, it's like a good, feels like a good sports movie. And way, yeah, subverted my expectations a little bit. So, but then again, I watched Craven. So I guess it balances out and I just kind of feel average, I guess in life. I feel okay now, yeah. Yeah, you can't give it that Craven bump.

That craving high. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty much there with you. I wish I feel like I knew, got a better impression of him as a person or a character here. I also wish they delve more into those kind of race dynamics you've been getting at. That is like an interesting part of him that is kind of glossed over. And yeah, the same for like the comedy.

That is like a big part. I have always understood about his songs how funny and clever they can be. I just don't feel like the writing or the dramatic. writing is anywhere near like um the same level as that kind of stuff um yeah yeah i'm just not really going to think about this again it's i don't know something something like better man is a way weirder like stranger biopic and something yeah spaghetti man more looking to see but yeah i take this over like a bohemian rhapsody or hell yeah oh yeah something like that any day yeah two and a half style from me i'm i'm i was comfortable

you with this rewatch. It's, it wasn't amazing. And I wasn't expecting it to be. Uh, but it, it was a nice reminder of why I like the artist and why I, you know, watched this when I was younger and the, the type of, uh, just how exciting everything was when, you know, he was creating new things that were great. No, he's still creating new things that I just don't care about. But like, he was, he was, he was a force to be reckoned with at a certain point in time. And it was nice being reminded of that era. Yeah, if anything is a really interesting cultural artifact. Yeah.

Really like a time capsule. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm trying to debate between a high five and a low six, but I don't feel like this conversation helped me solidify in either direction. What do I give it? You go first, Jake, and then if you give it...

Yeah, I'm going six. I'm just going to give it a solid six because I have to edge. on the fact that I had a good time you know like it was fun and it was like competent and pretty well made it didn't do anything super exceptionally but you know it was good time I give it a low six then

yeah the sex scene was unearned I'm giving a five I lied the sex scene was awkward and weird oh yeah the sex scene was very weird it was more of a foreboding tone during it because there's like no music it's like and they're in a I love it's like a factory it's so you can

add your own music later. It's a fetish. It's like it's a little pause for porno. Uh-huh. Okay. That was great. You loved that decision. Which is actually the name of a track of, on 2001. Yeah, that was a awkward. It's off-putting and weird. Yeah.

It was like, hey, why don't we? There was a very fetishistic element to it. Like the, like the, ooh, we're going to get caught. I don't know. fucking straight people are perverts man I like when they set the house on fire and Eminem's just like oh dang I should get out of this house

there's a lot yeah there's a lot of like bottle like mini conflicts in this film that either get resolved immediately or just like kind of don't matter it's a very strange structure yeah I'm comfy with high five we did it we figured

high five hi five question time nice let's do some questions then from the sonnercast community head over to the suggestion thread over on the subreddit if you want to leave questions for future episodes just like Ethan Mars origami did in honor of Lynch what movies have you watched on your effing telephones yeah RAP you Lynch I guess that's happened since last episode. There'd been all these stories about his long capacity

and he was a heavy smoker, so that's only a matter of time, unfortunately. Yeah, well, something you've watched on your phones in order of Lynch. Well, I don't know, like sometimes, I don't know if I've watched a full movie on my fucking telephone. I've definitely watched some TV show episodes.

I've watched TV, yeah. Last night. I can't think of a movie. I found on archive.org there's a straight to video instructional VHS called How to Have Cybersex on the Internet

from 1996. So I watched that on my telephone. It was very funny and awkward. Literally just, yeah, wow, 1996, just a woman going like, you find a chat room and you say, I would like to have cyber sex.

It was a weird find. But I watched that film on my fucking telephone last night. I watched a couple episodes of the new squid game on my fucking telephone. If that counts. That's a way to do it. Oh, disgusting. That deserves to be on the TV. Come on.

Yeah. So's. Show some respect. Sorry. I don't think, I don't know if I've done a full film on my fucking telephone. This is going to sound really crazy, but I'm pretty sure the first time I watched Stalker. I watched it on my phone. You see?

Perfect. Perfect. Because this was before criteria had put out there, Blu-ray. And it was for free, it probably still is for free on Moss film, the Russian production channel. So I really wanted to watch it. And I think I just started it one day. And it is a hypnotic movie. So I just watched the whole thing.

And you know what? I really feel like I got the same experience as if I had seen it on the TV. So I've seen it like on Blu-ray several times now after that. But yeah, I don't know. I'm not a huge purist about those things. As long as you're not like skipping around or watching it at two times speed, you know, just if you're just watching the movie. I mean, that's something that drives me crazy.

Nadia will do that where she'll be like. I'm going to watch this movie on Netflix on her phone. And then 20 minutes later, she was like, oh, it was pretty good. And I'm like, what do you mean? You finished? Yeah, you know, I skipped around a little bit. I went to the end when it got boring. I was like, you didn't watch it.

Base. They wouldn't put these tools in if people didn't use it. We got a base alert over here. You know, I do that if it's something that I have to watch but don't want to. And I've already watched it fairly in the first 30 minutes. and I realize that it's not that it's not working out for me. So there's like three movies maybe

where I've like where I've gone the two times speed route and just like, okay, I've got 10 more movies to get through in the next two days. Like I have to just at least see how this fucking ends and you know at least get the gist of whatever's going on here.

I don't blame you when you have that much. But I'm always honest about it. I never do that and then pretend I didn't. So. I think that's the real. And that's why they cancel you. That's why they get mad because if you're honesty. It's true.

If I never said anything, they wouldn't be a controversy. That's true. I'm sure there's lots of people, especially. When you watch that many moves and you kind of know already what to expect. If you ever go to like critics screenings at film festivals, like there's so many people that just like walk out like fucking halfway through. Roger Ebert did like three or four different reviews where he said like the movie was so bad I didn't finish it.

He still made the review. He talked about it. He was honest about what he said. you know? Are we going to retrospectively cancel him for that shit? Exactly. Like it's a valid part of your experience as long as you're honest about it. So people are dumb. No, and it's very telling like it's it was so bad you couldn't finish it. It's like with a book review, you know, just like, yeah, I couldn't finish it. It wasn't worth the time. Yeah. Yeah. What was the question? Oh yeah, fucking telephone. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, we go. Rip, Rip Lynch.

Rest in peace, buddy. Yeah, rest in peace. I mean, not buddy. I didn't know. Sir Buddha James has one for us Have you ever watched a movie slash show Just because of the controversy surrounding it I had zero interest in seeing the Blake lively film It ends with us But all of the lawsuits coming out

Between lively and the film's director I'm admittedly curious to see the movie With all the extra real life context now Love you all I'm sure there's an example Like if I If Amelia Perez was not directed by Jacques O'Diard, who is a director that I really like in the first place,

and of course I would have already watched it. If I hadn't heard about it up until this point, then I would be morbidly curious, you know, because people are freaking out. I'd be like, what is this monstrosity that people are saying that people, people's jobs should be taken away from them over or whatever. That's kind of why I watched it. I'd only seen the sisters brothers otherwise, which I really enjoyed. Yeah.

But I'd saw the, um, the yes, yes, yes, like clip. on Twitter or something. I gotta, okay, I've got to see what is going on here. And similarly, like, it's why I saw Better Man as well. Like, a concept that crazy and like just the, just recently the films that have been causing these weird online controversies, I just can't predict the stuff people get, like, mad at. And that was one of them.

And we kind of already covered it a little bit earlier in the show. But I just had to figure out, like, why, why are you getting so mad? over this. Yeah. I thought for sure that was one that people would be into. I really thought the CGA was the solution. The magic. To all the problem.

Yeah. I really thought that was all it took, but it's proved me wrong. So, like, yeah. Yeah. There's probably so many movies that, like, I've seen just because, like, they had some kind of controversy or drama around them. I'd say maybe the biggest, biggest, most controversial one that I saw. saw because of its controversy would be like the birth of a nation, which is like a monstrous

movie. But I'm happy that I saw it. But it is, I mean, however racist you think it is, it is 10 times as racist, I assure you. Like, I don't know if you guys have seen it, but it's, it's, yeah, I'm also morbidly curious about it. I'll watch it at some point. There are genuine, like, you can see from like a cinematic level why it is significant, but it's a fascinating because it is historically very relevant to the rise of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1920s.

It was literally a recruitment video that they would use. So kind of an argument for art being a really negative force in the world at times. Yeah, it can be propaganda. Art is very effective propaganda. We've been doing that for a while. Yeah, true I actually think of a lot of like horror films When I think of like controversial

Reputations they might have Or something like this is the only reason I've seen like A Serbian film or Cannibal Holocaust Even Human Centipede I guess In a similar sort of line Like it's the way people talk about it more than When you actually sit down and watch it

And you're like oh, okay This makes Jaws look like a funny movie. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Here's a fun little one from

Bran the Flakes 88. What's a perfect mom movie and what's a perfect dad movie? Ah. What was the fucking the Tom Cruise playing one sequel that came out? Oh, yeah.

Top Gun. Yeah, Top Gun Maverick. That's a perfect dad movie. Oh, for sure. perfect dad movie. So it's like the godfather, I guess. It's quite a dad movie. James Bond's a good dad movie.

Yeah. I think mom movie, I think like Mamma Mia or something like that. Mom's in the title. Yeah, literally. Mama Mia. I love, I mean, I love the idea of like mom movies and dad movies because it's, it is like stereotypically so true. And a lot of like, Mama Mia, yeah, that is such a good mom movie. Top Gun Maverick, Great Dad movie.

I'll say, like, in my experience with my own parents, the one time I got my mom to really watch like an art film, like a movie, like a challenging art house movie with me, because usually she'd fall asleep, you know, like back of the day when I'd watch stuff in high school. The only movie she actually sat through the whole way was Fannie and Alexander. Nice. That's a good movie.

I was so shocked. I'm like, there's so many other, like, movies, but she was, it just totally sucked into it. And I was so happy. I think it's just a testament to that being a great mom movie. Yeah, I mean, like, it's also very family oriented. I can see that being a thing that a lot of moms enjoy. You know, like the whole large family dynamic and, like, the traditional aspects of them, like, singing, like, Christmas songs and the dinners together.

And, you know, like, there's a lot about that that I could imagine. a lot of moms enjoying it actually. Yeah, yeah, it's a drama. My mom liked Nacho Libre. Nice. My mom lives like the Joker, so. What? She's like obsessed with the Joker, so.

That's my favorite mom. This explains a lot about you. Yeah. Your mom's a Joker fan. What'd she think of the sequel? She hasn't even seen the new one. No, she's a new one hater. Oh.

Which makes her a Joker fan, right? Wait, so which Joker? Just the... The 2019. Okay. Yeah, just that one, no sequel. Well, I mean, that was new pretty recently. What do you mean she doesn't like new things?

No, the new, the new Joker. Like, last year Joker, I'm talking about. The new, new Joker. But she hasn't seen it. She's just expecting it to be bad as a sequel? Oh, she just said, I talked to her about it. She's heard what people are saying. No, she's not interested in a...

It was the musical angle. No, we need her review. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. I guess most people that liked the 2019 one probably would not like the sequels. Well, yeah. Yeah, no, I'm really sore it, so...

Yeah. All right. Good mom movies and dad movies. I think of Lady Bird when I think of Mom movies. My dad likes good, bad and the ugly type movies also. Like Clint Eastwoods. Oh, yeah. perfect that movie yeah oh that's that's my that's my dad I mean my dad would

show me like old John Ford like Fort and like Fort Apache and I mean I was named after like John Wayne movies so nice I think that that's like in a especially like with my my dad's side of the family they're all like obsessed with being like fake cowboys you know growing up in Arizona and stuff so yeah I love Westerns because of that oh like the and Jones lost crusade. That's quite a daddy one like that. Oh yeah.

That's your dad character in there. Bam, but... Hell yeah. There's some good ones in there. Although, do you know what? Wouldn't be a good dad movie would be Indiana Jones 5. Just be sad and like...

Because it's about being old. It's about being old. You're old and miserable, aren't you, dad? Just fucking give up. Yeah. Another question. Oh, man. We can do a couple more.

This one from Jesse P. Graham It's kind of a funny one. Have you ever felt a similar pads post-avitar depression syndrome type feeling after finishing another film? Not exactly a film, but while playing persona five for the

first time, I felt a certain wistfulness that I've never experienced. The journey the protagonist does go through the relationship with his friends of city and he desires didda, blah. Yeah. I kind of had this feeling before. Not like as far as like wanting to it's suicide because I'm not an avatar anymore but I kind of feel that after like the Lord

of the Rings trilogy or like a really good book or series or something like when it's over that like wistful I would like start this cycle up again to get to that high point um so maybe yeah like when I finish like the sopranos or something for the first time like now what am I supposed to do now where am I supposed to put myself I was so used to these guys. Don't stop. Now what? I think that's more common, yeah, for TV shows and books than movies, because movies are more like rewatchable and you know that it's like a finite resource. But a show, when a show end, like that's a huge investment. And yeah, I felt that way with succession, I'd say when that ended.

Yeah, good choice. Yeah. I got to revisit six feet under for sure. I feel that way kind of about Mass Effect because I just really enjoy being in that universe so much, but I also just wish it had a better ending. Yeah. No, that's always a tough one. It's not a nice feeling when it ends. It's annoyed. You've got to make a choice.

Do I just stop at a certain point or do I just, yeah. Yeah, it never goes that way there. Yeah, it's not really something I associate with film, to be honest. But shout out to all you at Avatar heads that I guess. are quite sensitive. I love Avatar. I wanted to kill myself after watching it. Because it's so good reasons.

See, that's what's so weird about that phenomenon, which, I mean, it's media. It probably happened to like two people, maybe one. Yeah. But what's so weird about it is, like, they could have just, you know, you would have gotten more Avatar content if you didn't. You would have lived to see the sequel. What do you mean? That's why I choose to stay alive so I can see the third one and the tenth one. They're going to do fire next.

They did water. They're doing fire and the next one. Oh, yes. Really, though? Really, really, really? I love Avetta. I love Avatar. I love with water.

Oh, my God. Great movie. It's a very wet movie. It's so one of the wettest, yeah. So far. So far. We'll see if you can top it. Yeah.

Even wetter avatar. All right, one more question. Yeah, let's wrap up on this one from Comfortable Ad 6590. For Adam, I was looking through some of your ratings on Letterbox and saw you gave the Lion King 2 Simba's Pride 1998, a one out of ten. I couldn't find anywhere where you voiced your cause as to why you dislike it this much. And I was wondering if you'd share. For the record, I thought it was pretty average. and Alex and Jake if you've watched any of the Disney direct to videos slash DVD

sequels what would you say is the worst one and why thanks guys so I've definitely seen that one I remember watching it a bunch as a kid actually it's got like the the young scar kind of covil or something yeah that's it's like his son or some shit yeah furries love covoo but I don't know he's not it he's not as great in my opinion Obviously. Yeah, it's kind of embarrassing. I don't know. I just, I hate, I hate the idea of cynically making a cash grab like that with every single

element of the film being a half-assed attempt. Like, they didn't try with the animation. They didn't put enough money into it, obviously. Like, when you're an adult especially, you can, you can tell the drastic difference in quality in terms of the animation, like, style. the songwriting even and then in terms of the script and story so much of it is just like beat by beat

trying to mirror and follow the original film which yeah it's just it's like the laziest fucking approach it's like oh we're going to do this beat from the original film here except it's going to be this character it's going to be with his daughter we're going to do this beat here except it's going to be with this character

and it's just like oh fuck do something do something new or original it's just I don't know there's there's some people that really like the film namely furries, but I haven't seen it a while. So on rewatch, it probably wouldn't be a one out of ten, but I just remembered not enjoying it

and kind of being irritated by it in general. So I'll rewatch it at some point for sure, just for the sake of expressing my criticisms. Yeah. I remember like, even without knowing why, just kind of instinctually poo-pooing them as a child,

mostly because of just how different they look like, They look budget, like in comparison, like Tarzan 2 or whatever, or Aladdin 2. It's not the same. Bambi 2? Yeah, you can just tell. And I didn't like them quite enough to the degree where I could look past. Just that obvious cheapness in comparison, which is funny because, like, they, they kind of do exploit these brands in other ways now. But I feel like they're kind of more protective.

They don't, like, rush them out in the same way. Actually, now I say that out loud. They kind of do just to, but it's the streaming now instead of straight to DVD. Moana 2 was supposed to be like a streaming thing, right? They just put out. Oh my God. Yeah. So yeah, I've eaten my words before I could even finish what I was saying.

Oops. Yep. Yeah, I feel like now instead of just putting shitty direct to DVD sequels, they're just like, ah, we can just put it in theaters and, and people can't tell the difference now. I mean, I remember watching the Lion King one and a half when I was a kid. And I was like, this is great. This is so cool.

And then I grew up and I have no desire to watch that ever again. Just like I have no desire to ever see Moana 2 ever again. Yeah. The other one where it was like, hey, it's the Lion King, but from a different angle type thing. They fucking rent kind everything. Right. Yeah, I never saw that one.

And it's just Timon and Pumba. And I don't even know if like it's fucking Nathan Lane playing Timonin and it or anything. Like, I don't even know. We were there the whole time, actually. We were here in, we were there in this scene and this scene. All right. Thank you for the questions. We did it.

We did it. Yeah. It's time for recommendations. I think it's my turn Yeah, that makes sense Uh huh We're gonna we're gonna do A donkey film

It's called Donkey film Oh Hassard balthazar Oh yeah Robert's go Brasson Yeah And I'm wanting to check out more

Directors from this era Also particularly French I just I haven't checked out a Brisson film yet. And so I wanted to... Oh my gosh. I wanted to pop that cherry at some point. Hell yeah. Cool. It's from 1966.

So if you don't want to be spoiled for Oh, haza, I don't even know how to pronounce this one, I'm sorry. O-Has-A-Balthazar. Al-Hazard-Balthazar. Ow-hazard-Balthazar. Ow-hazard-Balthazar. Then watch a lot of it. before the next episode comes out. These episodes come out every two weeks. You can listen early.

Go to patreon.com slash sardonicast or sardonicast.com and sign up for premium. Or click the join thing on the YouTube members thing right there. Okay. Uh, we need more money. Because Jake, I'm leaching off of all the... Jake's in the pie now. So you got to make it worth it. Okay. Do you want to keep seeing Jake? Yeah. I thought you guys were just, paying me with gum with gum yeah it's like five gum I thought that's no like the soap flavored gum with guns we pay you in guns you like the well yeah but it's the American America yeah all right thank wait I forgot other things go check out the Sardonicast Highlights channel that's a thing you can go there and subscribe hit the bell on this one

why don't you all right I think we did it thanks for listening everybody have a happy Happy Happy Happy day Happy day Happy day Have a happy day Thanks everybody

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