Sardonicast - Sardonicast 183: The Brutalist, Au hasard Balthazar

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sardonicast.bsky.social Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Jake's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ManCarryingThing Jake's movie channel: https://www.youtube.com/@womancarryingman Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/yms.bsky.social Jake's twitter: https://x.com/ManCarrying Jake's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mancarryingthing.bsky.social Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Jake's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mancarryingthing Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Fan art: https://www.patreon.com/posts/sardonicast-part-121257689?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/1ihvof2/adum_in_the_next_episode_intro_can_you_attempt_to/   Timestamps: 0:00 Intro ramblings 9:09 The Brutalist 1:11:06 Au hasard Balthazar 1:45:49 Questions 2:04:21 Recommendation + outro

Three, two, one. E-O! That's a quote from EO, which was inspired by the recommendation for today that I'm not going to pronounce yet until later. I'm Adam from your movie sex. This is Sardana cast. That was a donkey noise. Oh, was it? I'm M.

H.C. And can you stop that? Um, yeah, how we doing? Uh, very tired. But we have one other person. Let's not forget. I know we're so used to just there being two of us. I'm, I'm Jake from man carrying thing and woman carrying man and thing carrying object.

Um, a lot of variation there. Mm-hmm. And you're literally carrying the podcast today because Alex and I are both fucking sleep deprived as hell. I don't know how this happened. Yeah, what's going on? Oh, yeah. Welcome to the club. Yeah.

Yeah, I guess you would be too. The Todd episode. I got like five hours last night. It was kind of crazy. I'm very fortunate. I allegedly got eight hours, but I tried a new sleeping pill. And I do not feel rested at all. I feel terrible.

I have little flashes of memories from being asleep. and most of it was like sleep paralysis most of it was like just nightmares so I don't I weird yeah I had one of those two nights ago too it was horrifying yeah like woke up in this like panic thing

my heart was going it was just not been my week yeah my body was asleep but my brain wasn't essentially which I mean you know I could just lie down and not sleep if I wanted that to happen I feel like all three of us are really mentally equipped to talk about these two very serious films. Yeah, yeah.

These dense, like philosophical. Well, that's why I have my notes. I'm just going to read my notes. I'm going to be on autopilot. I'm not going to actually engage with anything today. That's good. That's fun. That's what we need.

That's what we want. It's what I do every day. I actually did. I have a bit of a statement to make to our viewers. Yeah. You know, because last week was, or I guess two weeks ago now, was my official introduction as a host on the podcast. And everyone was very nice. I feel very welcomed by the wider Sardana cast community.

I heard whiter, by the way. Well, I mean, that's going with that. You, I really have to say that. But I'm very great. to be included, but and all the comments were very nice. And then I went on the subreddit. Oh. And I learned, I mean, everyone was pretty nice there too.

But I learned that there's one thing people are hoping that I bring to the podcast overwhelmingly. And it seems that the viewers are hoping I'll be a strong force against Adam's dog shit opinions. So, you know, to this, I say to both viewers and Adam, challenge accepted. Yay. I will not let him rest. I will not let him sleep, knowing he gave Amelia Perez a movie I didn't like, a slightly positive score, you know. So to the viewers, I am your Avenger. Adam's opinions about movies on his movie podcast that you all listen to will not be tolerated.

That's what I have to say. Thank you very much. I've been very bad. Yes, bad. I need to be punished. Yeah, it was got aggressive. Yeah, is everybody waiting for that conversation? I'm going to be watching it a second time for my Oscar nominations video anyway.

So we'll talk about it on the podcast. Don't worry. You'll get your, you'll get your disagreement. Okay. Well, I was kind of confused. Because last episode, it wasn't an Amelia Perez conversation. We were talking about the Oscar Noms for a full hour. Yeah.

All of the comments were just about that one thing. And we're like, oh, was Alex just glossing over his opinions on the movie? And it's like, well, that wasn't the conversation. We mentioned it like for, I don't know, 30 seconds as we were trying to get through the list of nominations. I feel slightly to blame because on my review of Amelia Perez, I mentioned that I was on Sardonicast now. and I think I said that you gave it a seven. That has nothing to do with it. People are leaving the comments anyway.

It's very, and then they're like, how can you think that the discourse is unhinged as there's literally a post about it every single fucking day in the subreddit. And every single time it's like the most uncharitable version of what I said. Like, look at the new comments on my fucking video. It's just, things keep getting crazier and crazier

with the whole story with Carlos. Sophia Gascon. The tweets and everything. The tweets. So it's just stirring up a controversy and now everyone wants to, yeah, pick on you for your two-minute review. I also feel like most people talking about it are not film people. Like, we've lost that point. And now we're into the conversations that are the equivalent of any other conversation on

like fucking Twitter. It's mainstream. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. This isn't film people talking about it anymore. No, there's a lot of conservative like, you know, oh, the anti-woke people and then you see a lot of the liberal people critiquing it from that. So it's very, it's definitely broken out of like the film festival. Yeah. It's, it's culture war shit, which is just so annoying. That's why I compared it to The Last of Us too. It's like we're, sure,

there are people talking about the artistic elements of the film and depending on what your feed and timeline looks like if you're a person that didn't talk about it on your YouTube channel then you're probably getting a much more positive version of those opinions but when you look at the shit when you look at the responses I'm getting you should be able to understand why why I feel like the discourse is a little unhinged right that's not it's not a crazy opinion to have right stop gas me please also you you reviewed it you reviewed it like pretty early like right when you saw it at TIF right yeah yeah so I mean yeah and then people are like oh you're just pretending to like it because you'd like how how can you like this movie when all of those mean tweets that came out two days ago happened like what the fuck okay I'll watch it a second time hold your fucking horses okay we'll have the conversation yeah calm down it'll be we got to hype it up for weeks in weeks, you know, make it a big event.

Yeah, straight alone. We're doing that. We're literally doing that right now. Like now we're responding to the overwhelming amount of Amelia Perez's discussion by continuing to add to the discussion. Now we're in a constant feedback loop. It never ends. It never ends. It never ends. It never ends. It never ends. I, you know, it's crazy. I never would have thought that this weird, like, fucking, um, French. Yeah, I'm so tired. I'm blanking on his name.

Jacques O'Don. Thank you. Got it. I never would have thought that this would be like the most talked about and controversial movie of the year. I kind of expected it to be something that like, you know, some people saw. I wasn't even sure it would like be an Oscar movie, really. That wasn't my expectation.

A lot of people are calling it Oscar Bate. I think that that's not accurate. Like what other Oscar movies has been like that? Yeah, exactly. Like you, for people to call it that is, it's such a weird misunderstanding of like what Oscar movies have been. Like,

Oscar bait is a complete unknown and conclave. Those are Oscar bait. Like indisputably, right? But, yeah, I don't know. We'll talk about it later. We should stop talking about it now.

We're going to get 800 more threads based off of this short conversation where we're clearly. saying that there's a deeper discussion to be had and that we don't have time for it right now. We will talk about it. This is where we are. The discourse around this film is, I would say it's pretty brutal. Speaking of brutal. Wow.

That was skilled. I always am. We saw the brutalist directed by Brady Corbett. and I feel like I am pronouncing that correctly because he's from Arizona and everybody else is pronouncing it Corbe I don't think he's French he's from Arizona he's from Arizona I am so am I don't think he's French he doesn't look like a Corbe more of a cool bit yeah so I don't know who is correct here I would like him to say his own name somebody get him to say his own name I'm sure it's out there and

especially if you're a person that does interviews, then it makes more sense instead of accosting him on the street. To solve all this, we should just stop with French things entirely. Yeah, I can agree with that. Just cancel the French. It seems like they're a problem. Yeah.

That's good way, pent. They are a problem. I'm glad we can agree on that. You know, it's funny after all of this recent news of the trade war, between Canada and the US Quebec's Quebec's like into Canada now they're united again

Oh really Yeah, that's interesting Quebec digs being a part of Canada Yeah and now because of all that Americans they can't make fun of Brexit anymore They've done it to themselves On an even scale So like

I think Americans don't even know what Brexit is Yeah Yeah sure Yeah Is that Is that some kind of a waffle? Is that a beer?

It's some kind of waffle. Yeah. The Brutalist. The Brutalist. We all saw it. Three and a half hour long film with an intermission. Do you know how awesome that is to have a 50 minute long intermission baked into the movie? They had their own time code and everything.

Yeah. Yeah, if you go on the soundtrack on Spotify, there's a whole piece of music specifically for the intermission that's like 15 minutes long You can listen to you. Yeah, like the graphic design of that Just the relief of when I was getting my ticket scanned. I was like I knew there was an intermission But I was double checking with the person Please tell me there is an intermission right confirm there is because I'm getting scared Yeah, there is and it makes it yeah, it really is a relief so many movies like your avengers and all this stuff go as soon as you go over like like two and a half hours? You should have an intermission, I reckon. I would argue that it's

responsible to, not just for the sake of audience members that might want to pee, but for the fucking theater that's playing your long movie, that's the length of two other movies, and they make all of their money from concessions. Be good to the theaters. If, you know, how many fucking directors are talking about how like, oh, the theater experience is dying, like pretty sure Scorsese has made those comments, pretty sure he's pro theater, and then he releases Killers of the Flower Moon. No intermission. Dude, you can help. You can help save theaters. So Brady Corbett, yeah, making Scorsese look like shit. Well, I don't know about that, but I do think that Killers of the Flower Moon would have been received much more kindly. I mean, it got a ton of great reviews, but people treated it like a big chore because, yeah, didn't have an intermission.

Same thing with Avatar the Way of Water. I remember James Cameron being like, well, just see it twice. True, yeah. You know? See it twice? That's what he said? No way. Yeah, well, yeah.

He's like, oh, if you miss it because you have to go pee-well, you'll see it again. So there you go. Okay, that's asshole behavior. But he wasn't wrong. I saw it again. Asshole. Yeah. That's crazy, actually.

But, I mean, it was great. It was great. They have way more control over this, too. Like, those are name directors, right? Brady Corbett's this guy that's starting to get recognition that I've been paying attention to before, but like the average person is not fucking heard of it. Yeah, this is only a second feature, right? Third. I haven't seen, what was it, Vox looks?

Oh, third. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't seen anything else from him. Yeah. I enjoyed Voxlux. Very weird, but like very inaccessible. This film is surprisingly accessible despite it also being weird and despite it like sticking to its guns and like we, we, want to show you something that is somehow simultaneously very accessible and kind of crowd pleasing

and kind of like tropey, but also diverts from that quite a bit. And almost makes it so that it's like borderline unsatisfying for people that might be expecting more of a traditional structure or narrative, I guess, without spoiling anything. We'll get into spoilers in a bit, but. Yeah. Yeah. From that first shot, I was like, oh, this is inspired. It's going to be one of these.

It makes it strong identity known in an instant. And I was put off, I could admit, from that runtime, seeing it there. And it's why I didn't see it the day it came out. I've been busy lately. But you were like, nah, trust that it's not going to feel like that. And it really didn't. Feels like two hours. It flew by for me.

This is actually rocketed to, I think it's overtaker. This is recently by us. I only saw this yesterday as of recording. I think this might be my pick for best of the year. Nice. So far, I adored this. I can't stop thinking about it. I've always liked the idea of brutalism as like an architectural style.

It's a UK like originated concept. And there's a lot of brutalist architecture in the UK. Well, yeah, true. And I'd have kind of a surface level understanding of it and just being around a lot of it and seeing it throughout the country and these sort of associations you have with it, like a growth, like a growing up, but it'd always been kind of hammered home to me how it was, it is more of like a Soviet kind of thing. It feels Soviet. It feels that the kind of concrete accessibility contrasted against a more like classical Roman Christian style of architecture. And the way the film embraces architecture for these visual metaphors and how it ties into this lead character of Laslo, I thought it was incredible.

And just, yeah, these three leads that kind of carried the movie for me, Adrian Brody, Felicity Jones, and Guy Pearce, I thought were, again, they rocked it up to, I think they deserve the best performances of the year. These are three of my favorite characters from the year. They feel so fleshed out. Adrian Brody, I thought was incredible. It's my favorite performance from him, and that's saying something with some of the films he's been a part of. But I thought there's so much range and depth of this character and, yeah, all the different scenes with him. what he brings out is it like breaks you. This is, uh, I was, I was going to make a similar, using the word brutal joke like you, but I thought maybe I shouldn't go, go to that, that

floor, but, uh, I mean, it is a brutal fucking film. Yeah. How is it was but it like? Yeah, it's, uh, I mean, I'm just, I'm just really happy you guys both loved it. Um, I don't know why, I, I had a feeling, I don't know, maybe Adam would find it a bit pretentious or overstuffed or something, I don't know, based on your previous takes, but I'm just really glad you both liked it. No, I fuck with Brady. I'm a Brady boy. I'm part of the Brady Bunch.

Okay. Brady Bunch, yeah. Yeah. No, I actually, I was excited to see it to begin with, but when I saw it, I was really surprised at how oppressive it is. it's very painful. It's really an experience that sticks with you after you watch it, not just because it's long.

But yeah, I mean, it speeds through. It really has this dynamic sense of energy, a lot of ups and downs. And it is sticking like Adam, you were saying, like, tropey. Like it has these very like archetypal immigrant tale tropes. But it isn't afraid to really push it to its limits. And I think because of the way this was filmed, I mean, everyone knows it was shot $10 million budget. And on VistaVision, which hasn't been used since fucking, I mean, the 60s or something, I don't know. And but because of those limitations, I feel like each scene has really interesting coverage.

It's not just your standard over the shoulder coverage of a scene. It's very creative and thinks a lot about what you're looking at and why. And every scene, it has like a weird, like it's shooting on some person who's observing the scene rather than the people talking or, you know, there's so much to chew on scene by scene that just already from the beginning, I was like, damn, okay, we're going into uncharted territory here is really exciting. Yeah, it was very well thoroughly planned out out of necessity for getting the film even made in this way. Yeah, I'm very impressed by Brady. Incredibly ambitious. Like for him to get a movie that, you know, if you didn't know the budget, you would assume like, I don't know, 40 million. Right?

So to get something that looks as though it's at least four times the budget of what he actually accomplished. Yeah, I was very surprised seeing that number because it is an epic. I know that word has kind of been like ruined online with like the post-irony stuff. But it really does feel epic, not just because of that runtime and everything that happens, it's covering like decades of time. And yeah. But in a way, when you think about it, it's very clever with how it tricks you into thinking it's more epic than it actually is because of, again, like how they, how it's shot and filmed. There's a lot of archival footage of newsreels, information about Pennsylvania,

you know, all sorts of stuff that gives you a larger sense of scope. When in reality, most of the movies just following this one guy in rooms, you know, but it has that scale that it's really amazing how they're able to kind of trick you into feeling the largeness of it. Yeah. Yeah. when it feels like you're in a real authentic universe, there's always an implication of like more happening than what you literally see on screen.

Yeah. It's really good. Even that with the period piece, nature of it, with it being in the 50s with that, you know, the hair, the vehicles you see, the varied locations. Yeah, never feels like restricted by that in any way. I was reminded of things like there will be blood even, like seeking of like epics and that kind of scale. But that was what, 25 million in 2007? Yeah. Different films, obviously, but I just felt that scale. It feels big and important. And yeah, I just love this architecture

angle and the way it's like integrated into the story as this way to kind of, yeah, you mentioned, Jake, the immigrant kind of story and using that as a vehicle to criticize America pretty much in that American dream and this idea that he's using his passion, his artistry to create this visual metaphor for what this character stands for in this hypocritical place that doesn't really see him as a person, he's just this economic unit and everyone hates everything else about him except his skill in architecture, his culture, his accent, his religion, the fact he's an immigrant, and then the inherent like kind of irony of a Jewish man designing a church, Christian church, and kind of asking these questions of, what are you willing to sacrifice in

name of your passion or your art and by the end of it was was it worth it yeah and like every single person or group of people that he interacts with like he has to he has to prove that he's trustworthy right the the default is is that he is untrustworthy like everybody kind of treats him like shit until they're like oh you're actually like really talented and i can actually exploit you like that's basically when they start trusting him and the way the power dynamics like evolve or devolve with these like gentile families he gets family he gets attached to and where that goes is yeah it's extremely dark and depressing and expressive you know just in the way I love before we get too heavy into spoilers I do want to talk about some of the

other aspects that are more general love the score I would say it's got to win the Oscar at this point otherwise they're crazy yeah it was great without challengers there Exactly. If Challenger's isn't nominated, then it's obvious, right? Yeah. Or it should be. And then, yeah, like, I love the choices with how the score is incorporated and especially the weird, like, title crawl, both in the opening credits and the, even in the ending credits. It's striking. It implies such a huge sense of confidence for what this film is trying to be. It is very self-aware. It knows that it is epic. It knows that it's an important, serious, memorable film.

And it's so refreshing to see something that is just so bold and not in any kind of pretentious way, not in any kind of way where it's implying a greater sense of what it thinks it is versus what it is. Like, no, it actually knows what it is. It's confident and it's self-aware. I like that a lot. Yeah. Yeah, I thought when the trailer for this came out, it was a striking trailer in a similar way. I thought the way that, you know, the text scrolls across the screen. So, that's really cool for a trailer.

I hope that's, like, in the movie somehow. And it really is. Like, you mentioned those end credits and the slanted angle. And yeah, it's just so much thought and just creativity to those put together. And the upside-down image of the Statue of Liberty as well. It's like such a great encapsulation of what this film is going for. A lot of good upside-down imagery in the movie, actually. you. A very rare instance of A24 marketing their film in an honest way, where what you see is what you get.

Yeah, I feel like the reason people are attaching to this movie so much because it is, it feels like rare and unique to have this kind of huge vision and a director be like, no, this is, this is important. I'm trying to say something serious here. and I'm intentional. This is, it's big for a reason, you know. I'm not just trying to have this style over the substance. Like, it really matches. Like, I can't imagine it being filmed in any other way based on the story he's trying to tell. It just, it works perfectly. Kind of like how we'll be talking about Brescon later, but you feel that sense of confidence in his films too.

That's like, no, this is serious shit. I'm not messing around here, you know. Yeah. To me, it felt kind of like an inverse of a megalopolis situation, which similarly kind of used the period piece imagery and this like Randian type big criticism of America thing that it's doing. But instead of falling on its face, it's actually achieving what it's going for and elevating something. Interesting comparisons there for sure. I was also kind of thinking of Megalopolis. I mean, another filmmaker who's like, I'm making a very important statement. I'm an autore.

I have a lot to say. And different angles, you could say. Directions, yeah. Yeah. It insists upon itself, Lois. It does, though. Yeah, very, very excellently presented. And I was very happy with as soon as Guy Pearce's character entered the story.

And as soon as that was just like the level of. and kind of over the top performance, but also like the writing of the character, it's, it's definitely an exaggerated kind of like caricature type character, but it still fits and it's still believable. And it's like, okay, yeah,

there is probably some guy that's, that's this out there, right? And it does just fit in the 50s too. Yeah. It's like very 50s that character. And the accentuated nature of his wealth and everything he stands for if it feels like fits. that performance.

Well, I was just going to ask if you guys were getting the master vibes. I mean, I was getting a lot of PTA vibes in general, but especially the master, especially that dynamic, very like domineering performance from Guy Pearce and Phillips, Seymour Hoffman and that kind of relationship. That's really a struggle, yeah, in the 15th too. Yeah, that is a good comparison, although I wasn't thinking of that before. But yeah, so much of like the intrigue for the movie for me. and the entertainment value

just comes from like just watching their dynamic just those two characters bouncing off of each other it's a very watchable dynamic it's just super entertaining the time just flies by watching these two kind of

like figure out each other yeah very well written and the the strength of the character writing just and the the authentic feeling of it just helps it go so far for me. I'm curious, did you guys feel like, because a lot of people are complaining that the second

half of the film is not as strong as the first, or that it takes such a shift. Let's go into spoiler talk. Yeah, I've been waiting for spoilers. Okay. We're in spoilers now. Hell yeah. No, I like that it did that. I like that it offered something where by the end of the movie, you know,

The movie's over. I'm still thinking about it. I like that. Yeah. You know, I like to think about why those choices were made. And I like that it is satisfying in its borderline, borderline unsatisfying nature of its choices. And also having seen Vox lux, you know, I, it's, it's one of those things where it's like, okay, Brady, you are definitely trying to do things that are a little atypical.

And I like that. And I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. It is weirdly similar to the no country conversation we have where that was a big discussion point in that movie where When you first watch it there might be this sort of feeling of Huh that's like jumped a certain amount of time or moved or concluded in a way that maybe doesn't feel the most natural or is shifted It just moves but for me

I don't know that that felt like the the right ending for me I I could probably even without that epilogue I feel like it would be a strong ending if it just ended there. But I'm glad it didn't do that because otherwise I like the fact that the main character doesn't really get like this conclusive, more cliche stereotypical ending that I feel like people are getting at when they're describing it as being more, you know, beat by beat or, you know, these things we've seen before. But the fact that it's his relative speaking for him and he doesn't actually get to use

his own voice in the epilogue that's all about him and he's kind of like fading away in this chair in the background. Yeah. And his relative is talking about how the design of this building that's been the project for most of the film was that inspired by the concentration camps that he escaped and survived was his influence. But we never actually see him describe that process from his perspective. It was all from her.

So he's, yeah, you're not even hearing it. So it's like this character is always, even. when he's revered by that point, when it flashes forward to 70s or 80s, he's still being relegate to the background for someone else's perspective, which I thought was like an interesting take on this character who through the whole film is just so beat down and there's this kind of hopelessness to him where he's just stuck in this situation that's so sad and empathetic and he has these drug problems and this just dire relationship that he's trying to fix and do what he can with that through no fault of his own has been like torn apart and it's just so tragic fundamentally

and just the journey of following him as a character for me is so sort of emotionally involving and affecting it really feels like it's saying something yeah yeah that final that whole epilogue is it really complicates everything that comes before but i think there are many who think that it simplifies it and i i think that reading of the film is is not quite right i feel like you're missing something exactly because what you said, Alex, that, you know, it's his niece who's speaking on his behalf, a retrospective on his work, and he's just silent in the corner, you know, extremely old. Again, his work is being, before, like, through the whole movie, it's all about, like, art for art's sake. And then we have his niece explaining, oh, no, this is,

he was trying to preserve his love for his wife with the, you know, the Holocaust. And we, that whole reveal is huge, but it also flattens everything and makes what he was trying to achieve kind of simplified. And then that whole, that final statement where she says right into the camera, you know, it's sometimes with art, it's the destination, not the journey or, I forget exactly what it is, she says, but that's the sentiment. And then it cuts right to what's the song, one for them, one for, one for me, one for them or something.

it feels like a very like bitter sardonic ending to the film yeah that that's like no that that really is not what the whole movie's leading up to it it's it's kind of a sad way to end the entire experience and that's why I left the film being like ouch like that was a angry bitter yeah angry, bitter way to end this film. And I think the reason people love the first half and are colder on the second half is because it's a lot simpler. And a lot of those immigrant narrative tropes are there. That's like the striving, the climbing, you know, wanting his, so much of that drive is wanting to bring his wife back to the States. And the second half is when she's there. And everything becomes harder because you're now facing the reality of living life, not this, you know, idealism of what can be achieved. So it's, it's, um, I mean, it's amazing. It's an awesome movie. Yeah, that's a good point actually about that first half where it does have a really strong

hook with the Jones character not being in it for hours. So yeah, I guess once you get that payoff, then it's kind of got to rebuild up to some other kind of, like crescendo of sorts. Because after that intermission, that gut punch and the way that information is revealed, of that reunion. Wow. I thought it was very powerful. I love that. The photograph,

and involving the end, the intermission, the photograph of like, it's like part of the plot. Like, it's so perfect. The intermission is storytelling. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. It's so clever.

Also, worthy of note, you know, the niece character speaking for him as he's now silent, it's very much the inverse of how things were throughout the entire rest of the film. Like the niece character barely talked. And despite that, despite her literally, I don't even know if she said an entire word before she was an adult. Like I don't remember a single line from her.

But despite that, she had great screen presence. And she was a memorable character despite being like entirely silent. Every single character had huge screen presence. Yeah. Well, yeah. And her whole like the whole stuff with Joe Alwin, who's Guy Pearce's son is just kind of. of harrowing and hard to watch. Yeah, it's a scary character.

Yeah. It feels like one of those situations where everyone is just on such an A game, that they're all elevating each other. And yeah, all these characters that come in and out, even if they're not in it too much, like the cousin character, Alessandro Navola character from kind of first act, I thought his performance was excellent too.

And the, another kind of emotional reunion with him and Brody, I thought it was like, God, this performance is, I don't even know these dudes. And then I, I, buy that they know each other and that there's all this just angst and hurt that this like community is sharing and bonding over and trying to help each other over. But then the gradual kind of unraveling of that is is horrifying to kind of watch indulge in. Yeah. And I also love, I know we

already mentioned the score, but I love how at the end of the film it transforms and it's like, oh wow, there's like, there was already a lot of range in terms of like tone and instrumentation and emotion in the score, despite it still having like themes that it reincorporated. But by the end of the film, it's like, oh, wow, like you're actually going for something very different. And this composer is, like, he's only ever done like two other projects. So now he's Oscar nominated, which is really cool. Congratulations.

One of the people that worked on the film is that the cinematography. Someone's name is lull, L-O-L. So I'm happy that they're going to get, yeah, lull-crawley, cinematographer. So he's got a nom and they're going to have to say lull at the Oscars. I wonder if they'll say lull. Yeah, I love when that scent kicked in. That was great.

Oh, hell yeah. Oh, yeah. Also adding to like the tacky feel of like it feeling so wrong and off. Yeah. In that part of like such a contrast. Totally. Yeah. And also the editing, it's very like montagey, the, the, the video aesthetic.

The white. Yes. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But what I appreciate going back to that ending kind of, is how the film's exploring a lot of these kind of deep ideas about, you know, identity, immigration, assimilation. But it's not, it doesn't feel like it's putting a. strong kind of heavy-handed conclusion on it. I guess that's the issue people have with the end. But it didn't feel like that to me. It feels like it's asking a lot of questions throughout the movie and exploring these questions,

but kind of leaving it up to you to where to take it as far as like what is right and wrong, what should be done, yada, yada, yada. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's also what is interesting too because of the issue of Zionism, how it's addressed in the film, you know, his family or his niece wants to go,

to Israel and are like this is the only hope for our people and and I think that the movie doesn't provide an answer and I think that's why it's a controversial aspect of the movie especially now because it kind of leaves it open to the viewers of what what is really you know going on here is that is it what is it trying to say that she's the one speaking on his behalf and kind of framing his artistic process in the view of Israel and how his buildings were built and conceived

after that point. So it's kind of sad and I think that the movie's just trying to show that there are these different ways that the pure artistic process can be viewed and corrupted and used for

not probably maybe propagandist purposes but also just ideological ideological means. Yeah. And I mean that's Something that's consistent with reality around us is like you kind of have Different cultures and communities with Entirely different versions of the same historical like events or you know like

Wow, that that that is a good point. Yeah. Because that that does kind of tie into that kind of going to the the dialogue in the film which I think is incredible and is partially how they're exploring some of these concepts and the way that through these characters characters. Felicity Jones's character mentions again and again that this this huge project, this all-encompassing project to Harrison Lee, the Guy Pearce character, is to him like getting a kitchen redone. And she keeps trying to remind that and hammer that home into Brody's character. Yeah, that's good. What are you sacrificing here? Like how much you're, how much are you losing by doing this?

We don't have to do this. We don't have to, but you're, you are compelling yourself to do this despite everything you've been through. Yeah, there's so much great dialogue in here. Like earlier on in the film where Brody and Pierce are talking about having these, how he describes these intellectually stimulating conversations again and again, and talking about how he asks Lazlo to explain why he cares about architecture and his answer of like a cube being this sort of a self-explanatory thing, as is like quick just rebuttal of that. This is clever man and it is intellectually stimulating. This is exactly what I'm looking for. Yeah. That whole conversation was incredible.

Yeah. One of my favorite scenes. Oh, yeah. The way Pierce just delivers his lines and how they're interrupted and he's just like, excuse me, I'm going to go back to our conversation. Interesting conversation with important intellectuals, you know. I'm trying to think of another three and a half hour long movie that I have wanted to watch again so quickly. Yeah, I can't so think I'm tempted to see it again next week if it's still

playing, um, which is crazy for a film. I think it's getting a digital release on the 14th. Oh, shortly. Yeah. Oh, wow, really? Okay. Well, definitely see it again soon then. Yeah, I want to see it again. Yeah. I feel like it demands a second viewing and that's why I feel like I wish I could have seen it again before this conversation, but it's just not possible timewise. Yeah, yeah. It just has so much to offer. and your baby again. I know. I mean,

I'll just put him. Bring the baby. Like, okay, oh, one thing, because this is another strong critique

that people have with the movie is that the strong decision it makes in the second half of the film, I think the one, the notorious one

that we all know about, um, Harrison, rapes Laslo. How did you guys feel, uh, with that, being part of the movie because it felt like taking something metaphorical and making it

very literal and visceral. And when I was watching the movie, I was horrified, but also part of me was pulled out going, do we really need this? Is this necessary to convey what's already been told to us? I don't know. How do you feel? I think because of that payoff you get there. I didn't get pulled out of the movie, but.

Yeah. I didn't find it distracting in that way, especially because of how. sexuality and sex and this kind of thing is used throughout the movie in all sorts of different ways. It depicts aching loss, like love connection, but also hatred and power and the whole gambit of this kind of stuff. And yeah, I think because of the way that it concludes and wraps up with that guy Pierce's character and especially you don't actually get any conclusion with him, you just kind of wanders off and you never find out what happens to him, which I love the open-endedness of that. But I personally was not distracted by that considering kind of the dark places it's already gone and been to by that point already anyway. Yeah. It was definitely a moment where I was like, oh shit.

Definitely got an emotional reaction to it. Yeah. I wasn't expecting it, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah. I like that it kind of caught me off guard. I wasn't sure where it was going to go with it. I wasn't sure. I was like, even as it was happening and even after it happened, I was like,

Was that a thing that actually happened? And then later, you know, called back to it. But yeah, I didn't find it wrong that that was in the film or anything. Yeah, it definitely served its purpose and it added to the narrative and emotional experience. It was a strong choice. And I kind of had to respect it too, because even though in the moment I was kind of taken out of the film, I was like, you know what? Like, you've carried me along this whole movie that it is. is, I think it's important and necessary for a movie of this kind of like ambition to make bold

choices. And I think another bold choice was having Felicity Jones confront Harrison, uh, and that dinner seed, which veered into just pure melodrama, uh, and could have just been horrible if done a different way, you know, but I think that the movie pulls it off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I take it there.

When she's dragged across the floor, that was very affecting for me. There's just such like a buildup and release of tension at that point. And I don't even know where else you'd go outside of jumping decades. But also like Alex, you're saying how strange it is that Harrison disappears. Not strange, but it is unsettling because you want this big release and he disappears. and we just get these shots of the building, the architecture, the surrounding landscape, and it almost feels like he's just dissolved into the building itself, which makes it even more sad and disturbing that he's known so well for this specific building.

And like can he even claim it as his own artistic thing when it's like it's almost as if Harrison is the building himself. It's also another thing to think about is, like the way that that is kind of confronted in the film is I guess just another example of you know a kind of trauma and suffering that Adrian Brody's character has gone through but is also being relayed through another character and kind of being told you know the confrontation is happening from his wife saying you did this to him it's not happening from him directly and that very much ties into you know the I the the the the other ideas in the film, whether it be like the ending or if we're going to talk about like, I don't know, trauma from like the Holocaust or how generations are removed and we're all just kind of, you know, talking about some sort of traumatic history of groups of people that, you know, we didn't experience, but we're just kind of telling the story and relaying the information.

Yeah, I think it fits. For sure. Very interesting. Yeah, the way they communicate the kind of sense of loss in one of the earlier sex scenes between Felicity Jones and Adrian Brody, I thought that was another devastating scene that was a, when she's talking about how I know what you did and I'm not jealous and there's just this tragedy to it because of the nature of like what tore them apart and everything that came with that and just the turmoil to get back to that point was like so. I don't know, I keep saying it's emotional, but multiple points. It was really overwhelmingly emotional for me. It is, especially the way he reacts to her being in a wheelchair and not, you know, the injuries. She didn't tell him how the extent to which she was injured and how he like treats her poorly because of it,

because he is so overwhelmed by guilt that it's like he almost has to like, it's like this weird reaction. Like he can't even look at her. He's in so much anguish that he didn't know what she'd been through in that sense. So, yeah, it's just, God, it's incredible. Although I will say during that scene on the soundtrack, I love that the track used is just called Handjob. I think that's really good. Yeah, and there's one called Porn as well on the soundtrack. Nice.

It's the porn scene. Yeah, I've been listening to the soundtrack. Like, I just, I can't help it. It's so good. Yeah I think my takeaway is that I want to try opiates I want to try opiates

That's the takeaway Yeah They seem fun Definitely Get on those old school drugs I like how he like He asks his friend for more

He's like no I quit That moment for me It was like oh wow Like just kind of acknowledging that You know another character In close vicinity has already kind of like dealt with his own struggle, you know, just been like, okay, this is bad

for me. I was an addict. I found my way out of it. And then Adrian Brody's character is just still struggling with this. Like, oh, shit. Yeah, I enjoyed that character too, him and his son. I didn't expect to stick around for so much of the movie, but I'm glad he did. What do you think about AI?

Oh, yeah. I was just about to bring that up to you. We got to talk about it. Yeah. So there's like two controversies, right? this, the Hungarian accent tweaks, and there were claims of some buildings being generated in Mid-Journey that apparently is not true. Now, I looked this up, and I can tell you exactly, I can tell you exactly what was and wasn't

in the film. So, the editor, who is also Hungarian, wound up using AI audio software to replace essentially what amounts to some syllables only with. the sequences where Adrian Brody and Felicity Jones are speaking actual Hungarian, which is not the majority of the film. It's only like within those like letters that that he's like reading to her basically. So just in some transitionary sequences. And then, you know, they didn't generate full sentences. They essentially just used the software in a way where a native Hungarian speaker could correct tiny portions.

of the parts of words in the sentences and give a more authentic pronunciation so that the film retains its sense of authenticity and accuracy in a way that native Hungarian speakers wouldn't be thrown off, right? So I consider that to be totally okay. It's the equivalent to like auto tune, which, by the way, there's plenty of nominated

performances this year for musicals. Part of the performance is singing. So if we're going to say that Adrian Brody is not like, oh, we can't nominate him now because there were tweaks to his performance. Like, okay, that happened for every single musical nomination this year. And if you don't think that, then you have no understanding of how films are made, especially with audio editing. And then the only other instance, there's two other instances of AI usage in this film.

some of the architectural blueprints shown at the end of the film in the 80s type section were generated. Although I'm not sure if they were generated and then like inspired and then, you know, redrawn hand-drawn or just actually generated. But, you know, according to the original interview that this claim is sourced from, it amounted to about four seconds of screen time maybe in the film. And then the third and final usage of AI is an interview with the production designer and she says that they used mid-jurney to generate hundreds of different images of brutalist architecture

to help inspire and use as reference for what they would later have artists hand-draw and appear as actual buildings in the film in the background. So anybody saying online like, oh, I thought they looked AI generated because of how the texture looked. That's not true.

They didn't AI generate buildings and throw them into the movie. Those are hand-drawn, but there are some designs that used Mid Journey as a source for inspiration to basically retain the same brutalist type architecture

and, you know, create ideas within that framework. my personal opinion. AI is a tool. It can be used ethically. It can be used unethically. For a movie that's, you know,

clearly, uh, a $10 million budget movie that is not, every single cent you can see on the screen and it looks like a $40 million movie. I don't see how this was used unethically, honestly.

It's not, you know, some cynical, you know, Disney, Oh, can we just not pay the actor and we'll just like AI entire performance instead? Like this isn't one of those issues. I know that people treat it as a buzzword and people get really, I don't know what the right word is.

Uh, overly concerned and overreacting of just anything using AI ever. But when you talk to industry people and actual filmmakers and actual artists, you know, like, it's a tool. It's a tool. And it helped this film get made. This is an instance where this helped the actual art happen. So if that helps artists and this is an instance where I believe it did, then I see no issue with it. I guess the argument against the mid-jorney one in particular, because I don't really have an issue with the Hungarian accent, things like, but I would never obviously notice that, not knowing the language.

But I guess if they're generating what is effectively concept designs or concept art, I guess that's replacing the job of someone who or a group of people that might have done that and been paid for it before. But then we're getting into this situation where is there a legal obligation to mention your use of AI? Does it like have to be in the credits of films? And like how are we actually finding out about this outside of like reports on it? Like the same thing happened with late night with the devil. That was like a controversy at the time too with those title cards. Late Night at the Devil, another, by the way, very low budget movie. Yeah.

That was an instance where, like, you could tell by watching the film if you're paying attention sort of thing. Like, I didn't notice it on my viewing because I watched it at a festival before, like, the whole controversy. But then seeing some of the screenshots online, I'm like, okay, yeah, that does look. I can see the AIism in this image. For this film in particular, like, it literally nobody would know. without these interviews. And these interviews are happening. And these artists, the editor and the

production designer, they're talking about them in a way where like, they're clearly not like terminally online people, right? They're industry people. And they're talking about it in the same way that they would talk about using autotune or talk about, you know, any other part of the artistic process where it's like literally a tool, right? So the production designer in the way that she mentioned it in the interview. She did use the words. Like, it's as if I had a hundred different employees, artists, uh, handing me all of these different, uh, selections to choose from. And at the end of the day, like, there is still, in my opinion for, for that, there is still a human element. You know, like, it's not like she just typed in cool building and then just like pasted it into the film.

there was a very direct intention for the types of things that she wanted to be able to show. And then there's also a human element in terms of the intention of choosing which designs out of the hundreds, maybe thousands of generations of deciding like, okay, this one looks great. Okay, I like the idea of this one. And then, you know, another layer, another step is the hiring of artists that hand-painted those designs. and tweaked them. At the end of the day, the production designer has the final say in terms of what things look like in the film and how the final product exists, right? So they are the human voice that is to blame for if something looks good or something looks bad. My concern with AI is mostly just that things will look bad, right? And sure, there is also concern about, you know,

replacing jobs and the more ethical concerns as well. But, Every single time I hear about those concerns, they seem to be more of an issue with like capitalism than AI You know like it's so I don't I'm just concerned are they being in set by these dramas gradually popping up more and more are they incentivize the studios then to Hide it more because there must be air usage going on in these films that we just don't know about because no one's talked about or it's films no one cares about Yeah, like it's definitely happening that is that is a Worthy frustration to note is that I guarantee you in the exact same way that like we see this current for the past like

10 years or whatever we keep seeing these buzzwords in the marketing campaigns like we used actual planes and they weren't CG and then you look at how the movie was made it was like oh you use tons of CG right then this was just a marketing thing and you essentially lied we're going to see that exact same thing like we used no AI for that we used a real thing and then you used a real thing and then you'll find out like, oh, okay, AI was actually used in some way. It's, like, it's moving to the point where it's going to be like an industry standard and not like generating the whole movie and having no artistic element whatsoever, but in the way that the editor was, you know, helping tweak certain parts of their performances, right? We have tools available at our

disposal that make the process easier for artists. If it's being used in that way, where artists are able to make their art easier and better, more cost-effective, without sacrificing quality, that is pro-art. Right? That's supposed to be the conversation. A lot of these people getting real concerned about it are doing so under the guise of pro-art, right? So you have to, I would argue, you would have to look at each individual situation

on a case-by-case basis and be able to determine whether or not an instance is pro-art or anti-art. you know i mean i i do think that people have a point in being kind of uh strongly against like knee-jerk reaction to any instance of a i especially in in movies or in any artistic medium that they like because it is a creep like it is a a growing trend in the industry that feels inevitable and when things feel inevitable like they're just going to happen it it becomes like all you can do is scream into the void of okay let's let's make it known that we're really against this. And I think that in the terms of the brutalist, the reason

why it's so controversial and has garnered up so much attention is because, well, first off, it's very clearly an Oscars hit job. I think that it was deployed very effectively to tear down. I mean, this is like well known that this is what happens with movies, right, when they come up to the Oscars. There's controversies that come out deployed effectively to get voters in to vote for those movies. So if there is now this muddying concern over the brutalist, Adrian Brody, his entire performance is AI, actually, you know, like that's stuff I've seen online that people are saying. Like, it's an AI performance. That's, I think, based on how you've described it and what I've read, it's incredibly disingenuous. I think that in the case

of the auto, or not autotune, but it is like autotune, the way his certain vowels in his Hungarian accent when he's speaking Hungarian. Like that's a very different thing. And that's why it's so hard because AI has become a marketing term everywhere. You know, you see tech companies using stuff that they've been using for years, slap the word AI on it and like, hey, it's AI actually. And then people are like, this fucking sucks because we don't like AI. And I completely side with the people who are like, fuck AI.

We don't want any of that. involved in our movies. And I think it's definitely better to be more cautious and to avoid just anything involving it. But at this point, there are certain tools exactly like you're saying, Adam, that are kind of unavoidable in the industry that people are using more and more. Yeah. And there are definitely 100%, all these other massive studios making 200 million dollars are using all of these tools and way more and cutting as many corners as possible. In more cynical ways. Yeah. The Brutalist is not the.

problem here. Like, it's just not at all. Because of the idea of hypocrisy, because the movie's about art, capital A, art that people are, you know, hammering down on this, it's kind of the perfect hit job on this movie, you know, the idea of AI being involved. So the issue of the mid-journey, though, is a little more muddy and I wish that it hadn't been used at all. But based on, you know, what Brady Corbett has said that there's not actually any AI generated images in the movie. I have to go with what he said there. So, yeah, it just feels like an issue that's going to keep coming up over and over and over the more it's used. And it's really, it sucks that it has to be an issue at all. And I wish that the industry

as a whole would find an ethical, ethical guidelines for the use of it. Yeah. I think what Adam said it is an economic thing. I feel like first and foremost, like what you said, Jake, it's not the brutalist in and of itself. It's more of this bigger, we've opened a Pandora's box in the last few years and now you can't stop it, whether you like it or not. This is just the situation we're in now. And of course, when these films, not the brutalist aside, are having these budgets that are just so out of whack, so out of control, the economic solution to that is some tech thing like this. And yeah, I don't like it, but I also, I love a film like the Brutalus that uses it, so I don't really know where to stand as far as like, yeah, I don't like the idea

they use Mid Journey to generate these things that a team of humans could have been paid fairly for doing their work and their passion. But this is something that's just going to happen again and again now, more and more. And I just hope it's, or would like some kind of, you know, like on TikTok or whatever, if AI's been used, there's a little kind of, you know, a little kind of thing in the corner saying is or includes AI in some form or isn't it AI video. I would like to see some maybe some legal thing. In the credits, they have to mention like what has been used or something like this. I don't know. I don't know how that works as of now, but it's a conversation we have to have more and more. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure if we like

looked through every single credit in the film, we would see a list of every tool that they used, like every software. I'm pretty sure that is just a standard thing to do, but I guess most people don't read that and they probably, like these are all stemming from the interviews, basically. Yeah, yeah. In terms of it being a hit job, like, sure, maybe, and I agree that that is a thing that kind of happens during award seasons. I don't know if that, I don't know if this particular one is, you know, necessarily being propagated by the teams behind the competing films, or just online fans of the other films or just people trying to, you know, start drama or whatever.

From what I can tell, you know, I, I don't know, I'm in contact with a lot of industry people. This just seems to be like a very terminally online thing. I don't think that any of the academy voters, like, I don't know what, 0.1% maybe, are going to look at this controversy and be like, oh, that delegitimizes the performance, especially the performance like again you're correct in saying that that that it is more of an issue with the mid-journey production design thing right like that that one we can have like an actual

substantive conversation about and like a back-and-forth debate um but yeah in terms of adrian brady's performance like there there's zero people in the academy that are going to look at look at that and think like he doesn't deserve the performance as much as if it were used like you'd have to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how films are made to think that like some tweaking is something that delegitimizes a performance like you have to have never seen any behind the scenes footage for any movie never heard a director talk about any movie like you would have to be absolutely misinformed about how films are made to to to think that that would be an issue it's a tough subject I mean it's it's very uh no it's not it's it's it it's it's it it's

actually very simple. I mean, yeah. It's only tough because people freak the fuck out about it. Yeah. I just, I don't know. I think people are justified to freak out. You know, I think that it's a, I get why people get upset because it is like you guys are saying it's a Pandora's box.

We just, we don't know where it's going to lead. And already some of the lamest worst, you know, money hungry people in the world are incorporating it to. get the artistic process out of art, which is, it's crazy. You know, we have so much beautiful technology. And I think in the case of the Brutalist, they're using the technology to create beautiful art. And it's amplifying the art and improving it, possibly. But there are so many instances now we see where it's just trying to remove the human element out of art.

And it's, it's shitty. And you're just seeing it everywhere. I mean, Google, you can't Google something without getting a, million AI images. Yeah. It's just, it's, I get why people are upset. I get why people are concerned. When I say freaking out, I'm not talking about people that are concerned or vocalizing

their concerns or even passionately vocalizing their concerns. I'm talking about people that, that they hear the word or they, you know, they would hear an opinion like mine where I'm saying like, hey, as long as they, you know, there is a human element and it's actually helping artists, they disregard everything that's being said. and it's just like, oh, you're in this camp. It's like the Amelia Perez conversation where it's like, okay, I'm going to bring this up on every single fucking comments section

for every video you make from now on because people treat it as though you've like committed some sort of harm towards a person. You know, like you've done actually something wrong when it's literally just like, I don't know, I feel like I have a very lukewarm, like rational perspective on it, but I don't know. That's what I mean by case by case base.

really. It should be. I mean, you can really only view it based on like the context. I mean, because there's so many different tools. What even is AI? The definitions are wide ranging and all sorts of companies are using it as a marketing tool. So yeah, you have to just look at it from a case-by-case basis. Yeah. We'll see where the technology goes. I personally feel as though there's always going to be a market and a thirst, a hunger for authenticity, for human, art, right? So in this in the same way that like sure we're concerned about You know taking the human element out and all we're left with is just like Cynical vapid things that feel like they're made by machines I'm sorry that's like most Pixar movies right now. I'm sorry that's like That's like we we kind of have that already when we have so many fucking films that like the plot is just written by committee and test audiences and like we all we were talking about this shit years and years ago where there were studios that were feeding information into algorithms and using that to decide who to cast in their films, what

types of story, right? Like, this shit is already happening, whether people notice it or not. And here we are supporting a film like The Brutelist, where it does feel authentic. There is a human element. It's a story being told by an actual artist that is making bold choices and having something to say and I will continue supporting films like this right so if if other people the brutalist isn't the problem the brutalist isn't the problem and the people that a lot of you know if the general public doesn't want this to happen then you can

start by not already rewarding movies that are essentially doing that anyway right you can start by you know not soying over fucking alien Romulus right like you're you're already rewarding movies that are essentially AI So if you want to if you want that kind of change where actual artists are being promoted and rewarded then you need to start by voting with your wallet now And show that you actually like that kind of thing Right so

Alien Romulus was just fucking algorithmically generated anyway, you know Oh geez that was way worse than whatever the fuck was going on here Yeah, all right, that was a great conversation Yeah We didn't do ratings. Oh, yeah. I gave it a 9, but I can give it a 10. Fuck it.

Let's do it. Whoa. Yeah. How yeah. I think this is now competing with the substance for my favorite of the year. I'll have to see this a second time. Nice. Yeah, it's definitely very strong in my memory, in my mind.

I'm thinking about it, and I'm wanting to return to it, which is a great sign. Yeah, the fact I already want to rewatch this and I saw it yesterday and it's three and a half hours long, I think says a lot already. I also find it interesting that both the writers on the film, neither are Jewish, which I think is an interesting perspective and it still feels authentic despite that. Yeah, this is quite a triumph, I feel, 10 out of 10 from me. 10 out of 10. I think we're all unified here. I thought you came here to argue. I thought that's why we got you all that guy. Actually, I'll fuck you guys. one out of 10

AI use no thank you also that accent sucked and Felicity Jones was stupid she should have just he should have just crowdfunded the building

you know just just do it himself get some patrons Patreon Kickstarter yeah yeah it was kind of a baby movie if you think about it I mean it was for babies

do you think your baby would enjoy the brutalist can we get a review from your baby I'll ask him. When it's on digital, I'll just hold him two inches from the screen and then just watch the psychological damage and seep through him for the rest of the years of his life. Clockwork orange style.

Just some eye drops. The first brutalist designed baby is the brutalist baby. Yeah. All right, perfect. All right, we have a recommendation. It's my first Robert Brasson

film and it's a donkey movie. It's inspired many other things like EO, like donkey from the Shrek films. Eddie Murphy. It's a very inspired. I looked up how to pronounce the title, so I'm going to give it my best shot. Ow Hazard Bazinga is the film from 1966.

I think I did pretty good. Oh, I did, I actually didn't look it up I'm not even going to try to say it. You guys fucking read the title, read the title, and you figure it out. We've already made our opinions on the French known, so. Yeah, that's our anti-French podcast. Except Quebec, which is now cool. Al-Hazard.

Yeah, how hazard, Balthasar. Yeah, so, um, interestingly enough the general consensus among bresson fans a lot of people consider this to be his masterpiece but they also consider it to be like less accessible than some of his other films some people were like Adam I'm not sure if you're going to like this you should start with this other one I'm like oh I didn't fucking know but I did like it I'd like that actually quite a lot I like this very much

what I knew at one point and then forgot about up until recently is I believe this is Michelle Hanukkah's favorite movie and watching that it was pretty apparent there's a lot of like kind of Hanukkah isms in this film almost he's used some of the same

music as well I think it was what's that composer's name I wrote it down Schubert I think some of the piano classical music Sherbert Sherbert yeah

very weird movie kind of bold and interesting very very well executed in my opinion what did y'all think and i'm very interested in what you're what you have to say jake because you're a bit more familiar with the brisson yeah brescent bresson robert breson yeah um yeah i i had a huge Brescent phase back in the day, probably right around when I was obsessing over Tarkovsky, because Tarkovsky was a huge fan of Breson. I believe they both won the Palm Door for the same film one year, I think, for L'Argent and Tarkovsky's nostalgia. So there's a picture of them on stage with Orson Wells.

That's kind of cool. Nice. Nice. But, yeah, I just, I think. I think the first one I saw was a man escaped, which is a pretty accessible one. It's a very straightforward, you know, prison escape movie. And I think that his theory and style of filmmaking works really well in that atmosphere. So I think that's why people talk about it as a great entrance film.

I saw this film. I saw Balthazar later on. And I was a little less impressed. I get that people say it's his masterpiece. piece, but I also think this is the one that people are aware of if they're aware of anything at all because it's the donkey movie. Ye. I watching it a, I think this is my second or third time watching it.

I gained a new appreciation for it. It is really bold in how it tells its story, even just plot-wise. It feels way more plot-heavy than most of Brisson's films. It is a lot more literary. I would say and it feels like it's it like it has so many characters it's almost hard to keep track of who everyone is at points which is so different from a movie like pickpocket where it's it's just different so I don't know I'm I'm I really like it but I would rate it lower compared to his other films for sure okay what do you think Alex well I'm gonna have to be the hate and ass on this one I didn't like this um nice yeah with my with this insomnia I've been having um this might be my sleep aid I was I was like struggling still wait for I did not enjoy this at all

like you're saying about like this is the the one plot wise what is the plot can you tell me what is the plot this is like a donkey walking around so well so it it focuses on the donkey's perspective, kind of. Like, it doesn't go as hard as something like EO, which is like taking this concept and, like, going to its logical extreme almost. And it's kind of like a, you know, like each interaction that the donkey has with people, and it kind of gets like passed around for various different reasons. You know, you get a different owner here and then it'll escape and then it's like,

okay, it's in the circus and then back here, blah, blah, blah, blah. Every kind of interaction is essentially met with some kind of like, mistreatment and and people are generally unkind to the donkey and he's kind of just, you know, this, it's as if we're the audience experiencing the film through the donkey character, kind of just being left to not only observe, but kind of like take the abuse from these other characters. And in a way where we're kind of just like helplessly watching and unable to change the nature of human beings. And then if you want to get into like the details of the plot,

they're essentially... So the female lead is like the daughter... There's this drama going on between her father and her love interest father. There were some details of the plot that I definitely had to like look up after watching the film because, you know, the intricacies of like, okay, why do they think this guy stole money or like one of the characters, you know, according to the Wiki plot summary, had died when he fell off the donkey. I'm like, oh, I didn't even catch that. And like the motivations for like the bad boy, um, Gerard.

According to the Wiki, you know, he was jealous of the donkey. He was jealous of the affection that the female lead was giving the. donkey and that kind of motivated certain things that he did in the film but yeah i i i do like especially in terms of like thinking about rewatching this film i do like that there are elements of the story that aren't as explicit and that there is a bit more to like discover and and um i guess fine tune in terms of like the the literal sense of the things that are happening on a second watch yeah there is there is definitely a consistent way of presenting information

in the sense that a lot of things are more implied than explicit like the sexual assault that wasn't shown, but we're left to be like, oh, okay, that's probably what happened. Yeah. And so that can cause the film to be a bit more difficult

to get a literal interpretation of some of the events, especially on the first watch. But I, you know, especially after reading the wiki plot summary after watching the film. I'm like, okay, yeah, there's more to get out of this too. I understand all that what you're saying.

But my kind of issue is like, why is everyone in this movie this stone-faced, stiff robot? Like, I just don't care about anybody in this movie. I, like, can't connect with anything that's happening. I know it's a me problem. I'm in the minority with this. And I just didn't sit with me right after watching it. So I thought, I'm going to watch another movie from Brisson.

So I picked a man escaped. which was from 10 years earlier and I loved it. I actually adored it. I thought it was incredible. I loved it from beginning to end and I thought that kind of more, he works with a lot of non-actors, is that right? From what I was reading? So maybe that's what was the clash in the Balthazar for me where I just felt like there's

there's just no hook for me. I was like pulling my hair out by half an hour. I just really was finding it difficult to connect with anything on any emotional level. Sounds like you hate donkeys. Yeah, I guess. Whereas I really was compelled from the opening scene of a man escaped. It's got an amazing hook. It's, as Jake said, it's simple and easy to follow. And maybe, as you were saying, Balthazar is a bit more of a, I don't know, maybe I should have visited this after watching some of his other films so I can kind of deconstruct what he's playing with and how his style has evolved and what he's doing with this. But I found it very inaccessible and extremely dull. And it felt longer than the brutal is for me. And it's an hour. I was like I was really going insane well I think that your point about the acting is really interesting and made me think about why the a man escaped worked so much better for you because this movie when you think about it it is like a bunch of melodrama plots you know you have like

you're the biker gang you know and like the corrupted youth and yeah yeah it's also tackling a lot of like biblical imagery and maybe that's why I like I very very much like this movie but I don't love it as much as others because it is maybe his most religious movie or at least one of them. It's really seeking like this kind of transcendent theme within Balthazar and the acting style that he uses. Okay so the acting, his whole theory about like movies and I don't know how much you guys know about this, but I did some extra research last night because it's been a while since I'd you know, dived into this, but his, he has a book of interviews, Brasson and Brasson, and I found, I went to the section where he talks about Balthazar, and his whole theory of acting is,

and filmmaking in general, is that it needs to be separate from all the other art forms. And basically all other films are bad because they are mimicking theater. And, and, you know, it needs to be separate. And he has this thing where he's like, I fucking hate theater. He doesn't hate theater, but he hates theater and film. And he sees acting as separate from cinematography, which is what he calls film. It's cinematography. It's a separate art form. And he needs to be treated as such.

And so he sees photography, theater, acting, all these different art forms and mediums. He wants to separate them from cinematography. And he believes that cinematography. is about rhythm and it's not even about the visual image. So he says it at one point, let's see, this is one of his interviews that he likes to flatten the image like you'd flatten fabric with an iron. He says they aren't beautiful images.

He says that I, in this art form which puts pressure on the image, the viewer must abandon his idea of the image. He has to abandon the idea completely. and instead get caught in a rhythm that is capable of transporting him. Never and no other art has rhythm been so important, et cetera, et cetera. So it's like he's extracting all these things that we expect from movies, and it creates this alien feeling, which is why I think a man escaped works better because it's a prison movie.

It makes sense that they all look stone-faced and aren't expressive at all. The stakes are clue. Yeah, and this particular film, where it's about all these heightened emotions, it feels very off-putting. And another movie of his that I don't particularly love is called The Devil Probably, which has a similar issue, in my opinion, where at a certain point, like, our brains are so trained on expecting actors to act. And when you are watching a movie and just watching people stand there and move and do things,

I mean, he called his actors models, I'm pretty sure. Like, he did not want them to act at all. And it's, I have to respect like that kind of like mid-century. I'm a capital A artist. This is what film is and should be. Like I, I'm so happy that we have artists like Brisson who want to push things into this limit that no one else is going to do. Yeah. I get that within reason.

I just feel like with someone like Ken Loach who does something similar with these non-actors and getting these incredible performances out of them, like in something like Kess from three years after Balthazar. That just works for me and I have an emotional connection to what's going on. Sure. Whereas, yeah, I just found it. You mentioned the alien thing. I noted that down as one of my notes. It feels like if an alien or robot was trying to depict human beings and failing, that's what I said.

Yeah, I really was finding it hard to connect. I did find, like, the way that characters kind of reacted or interacted with certain things happening in the film, kind of like alien or, like, you know, like people's lack of reaction to things that would, you know, in real life, constitute a real reaction. But I did, you know, from my perspective, I did find that to be like a very intentional part of the style. And I do feel like it does kind of connect even with certain lines in the film. Like when she is trying at the end when she's been abused by so many people and, you know, finds comfort in, her love interest character that's not, you know, the abusive bad boy Gerard, but Jacques,

who's, you know, finally accepting her and giving her what it seems like she would want to hear in a way that he's not judging her and she's, you know, still hung up and kind of almost embracing in a negative toxic way, her own shortcomings and her own. trauma is like she she literally says out loud like that she's barely able to feel anything anymore and I feel like that sense of just being like beaten down to a point where you become kind of numb to things I feel like that does fit with the style of of what it's portraying in the film and also kind of what it's getting at in terms of like showcasing humanity in this way and you know that she even said in relation to the character who, like his father that is losing the farm and all of their money,

she even says in relation to his character, like that he is essentially holding his shortcomings and trauma too close to himself. And he's putting his pride above everything. Yeah. So I feel like there is like an intent there that does fit with the style and the themes of the film. I feel like, yeah, that element would have worked for me if maybe it was restrictive more to that character and the people around her felt like humans. Because there's like the scene towards the end where there's a woman crying and it's like, what? You're not crying. That's not what's what is going on here.

So I find it very hard to emotionally connect with that. It feels very cold and uninviting to me. I like it. In a way, that that kind of reminds me of Hitchcock. I was kept thinking of Hitchcock watching this because there's a lot of close-ups on hands, on images, on bodies. Like, he's more interested in what things then in actual faces, it seems, a lot of the times. And in a way, like, I watch certain Hitchcock films, and a lot of the performances feel kind of stiff, too.

And what makes it work for me is the editing, the rhythm, how it's combined to an effect that's like different from just admiring a performance. And I don't know if I totally buy his theory of like performing on film and how you can try to extract a perform, like a real reality if you get someone who isn't performing. because I believe that we're all performing every day in our lives. True. And he's certain actors that he uses or models that he uses are more expressive than others naturally. And I think that they are just better performers actually because like the main character, what's her to, Marianne or something, she is actually kind of a good actress. Like she's the way she emotes in her eyes and everything.

And then other characters you see them and it just looks like they're awkwardly standing in a room and you aren't getting a sense of presence. So although like I have to admire him for like being so dedicated to this idea, it does work better in some performances in some movies than others, I think. Here's a quote from Robert. Robert Eger, Roger Ebert, related to this. He says, the actors portray lives without informing us how to feel. about them forced to decide for ourselves how to feel forced to empathize we often have stronger feelings than if the actors were feeling them for us very interesting I almost feel the complete inverse to that if it's all the same flat line like

style of emotion I'd like yeah I could project I guess anything onto it if I wanted but then yeah it just wasn't interesting to me or compelling on that level yeah as a narrative as a hook as yeah I guess as an experiment it's kind of interesting but yeah I'm more with a I was reading about Bergman's opinion on this movie yeah I read that too didn't really get it where his argument was more that was an issue with the donkey angle where I don't think that's an issue at all he was saying that like yeah donkeys boring humans are interesting should be more about the humans whereas my my thing is just more like yeah I'm fine

with the donkey movie but just make the donkey movie like interesting or entertaining for me like I was I was picking up on the religious symbolism and all of this stuff going on and what you're saying about this perspective of the donkey in it. Yeah, what it's saying about humanity. But man, was I bored. Ooh, I was putting my hair up. Did you watch EO?

No, I haven't seen EO. No, it's literally just the letter E, the letter O and that's the title. I've seen it on MDB. I've never seen it. It's good.

I think you might, you would probably enjoy that more than this, just based on what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. That was an interesting thing. He's the best actor. Donkey's the best actor in this movie.

He can do math. Because he's... Oh, you know what's funny? In the interviews, I read that he... This dude, he's so committed to, like, non-actors that he didn't want a donkey that knew how to do things. He was like, I don't want to train donkey. I want just a plain old donkey who doesn't know shit.

And for the scenes with doing the math, he actually wanted a donkey who knew how to, like, tap his leg like that. So they had to play. pause production, according to him, they had a pause production for like two months to train the donkey to do that. That's funny. Wow. Yeah. I mean, just very dedicated to the bit.

How do you feel about the way animals are treated in this film? It was the style at the time. It was the 60s. People had onions on their belts and, you know. Yeah. I didn't love that angle. Yeah. I mean, there's clearly points in the film where the donkey is being made uncomfortable.

You know, in the end of the circus scene, people are like pulling it in different directions. I'm like, okay, you know, this isn't movie magic here. You're just kind of being abusive. Yeah, well, like a tying, tying a smoking bit of newspaper to its tail. And it's kicking around trying to get it off. Or there's like a polar bear in a cage, a tiger in a cage, and these sort of things. It's like, ooh, don't like that in the same. I don't like it in Werner Herzog's films.

Yeah. But as you say, the attitudes were slightly different at the time or depending on the country, too. Mm-hmm. I mean, didn't Tarkovsky, like, kill a horse on screen in André Rublov? Spoilers. But probably. He didn't go on screen and kill the horse. But it happened on screen.

Yeah, I mean, Michelle Hanukkah has done. a lot of those things what's funny about in Michelle Hanukas films the most explicit like oh you just killed an animal scenes are done in ways that are like literally the most humane way

possible but like if you've ever been on a farm if you've seen if you know what farmers do right you're like oh okay this is the most humane way of killing an animal like fucking you know one of his films they chop a chicken's head off it's like okay that's just what you do one of the films they do the nail gun into

the pig's head. I'm like, oh, that's literally, okay. You know, people, when you, when you buy meat, you're doing the same thing. Okay. Like, um, yeah, I think a lot of the controversy is just people having to see that because so many people consume pounds and pounds of meat and don't ever think that, oh, this is a dead, you know. Yeah, detached from it. We're disproportionately detached from our meals. We don't even know what the fuck we're putting in our bodies. And we love it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that is a legitimate criticism to bring up.

It's obviously, you know, people are, people's sensitivities to that have increased over the years. And, yeah, I would prefer for it to be movie magic and not just you hurt an animal, in my opinion. Exactly, yeah. Maybe AI will fix that, actually. AI, kill a horse for me, please. I mean, okay, 20 years of the future, if it looks flawless, that's a good excuse. Yeah, we want to have a real-looking horse killing in the film. We'll see, you know, if AI makes it look real, then fuck it.

That's more ethical. I mean, Craven had some pretty good lions in it. I thought that was great. True. Great. It didn't. Yeah. Yeah, it's a, this is a very, um, I, I actually found myself kind of surprised with how like,

into the film I was. Because it wasn't, it didn't feel slow to me. Like, it was a nice, like, hour and a half, uh, long film, you know, that it never, uh, stayed in one setting for too long. I found that there was like a good variety of setting, like, things were progressing. and I was just very into the style of narrative. I wasn't anticipating more of a traditional narrative, that's for sure. And yeah, maybe it's been, maybe a lot of this is just because I like Hanukkah so much

and I've seen like almost every one of his films that like I could see a lot of that in this film. I'm like, okay, yeah, I get, I get what you're doing. I get that you're being like kind of subversive and you're doing like an art thing here. And especially, you know, when we're in this. time period, like in the 60s, it is something to appreciate even more somebody going against the grain in this way when, you know, in terms of producing a film or getting a film seen, you are kind of putting a bit more on the line. There is more of a risk to doing that instead of just like, I don't know, being able to

plop your film on Netflix and shoot it with an iPhone or whatever. And I don't know, going into this, it's not even like I was anticipating a, standard film by any means like when it was recommended on the subred I saw the top comment worn you know anticipate the awkwardness like there is some strange kind of style to Rasson if you're starting here so I was kind of expecting that going in and was I don't know hoping for more of a I don't know like a lobster type thing where there's like some humor to it or a just something I can connect with but yeah I just I just was not picking up with it up and down your donkey hit

I think what's like great is that and what's what's off putting about his style too is that he's really trying to like not stylize things which I believe is an impossible thing because you're like yeah how do you not like the fact that you're trying not to have a style is a style is a style yeah you know you're flat these flat images everything is shot from like the waist up and very I don't like a not super engaged like you're you're you're just kind of observing things. Cold. Almost passively.

And like the thing that he seems, because he was a painter, I guess he started out as a painter. And I feel like the movie is at its best when it's just focused on the donkey and those very expressive eyes. And seeing the world from his perspective, the kind of extensive, very rambling, like, The donkey goes here to here to here, these different families. How do these people connect? I'm less interested in.

Funny enough, I was able to draw comparisons to my favorite Bresson film is his final movie. He made 1983, Largent, which is all about how a counterfeit bill passes from people to people. Similarly to how Balthazar is passed from group to group to group. It's just, but it's a very negative film compared to this. Like, this is kind of a spiritual film. La Jeanne is really depressing and cynical and is about capitalism ultimately and the dark side of human nature. So, I don't know. I mean, Alex, maybe you'd like that one a little more.

Yeah, that's part of what I'm glad I watched a man escaped because I didn't want to write him off as a director just with how people talk about and what I've read about him. It would seem shallow to do that. But yeah, I was torn between watching a man escaped or the one you just mentioned actually, and a lot of his other films look a lot more interesting, just from a premise perspective or a setting or a hook or whatever. But doesn't Balthazar have a companion piece too? I believe Moushet is considered. Yeah. Moushet, which I think Moushet is the better film, personally. I think Mouschette is.

Yeah, because what is kind of rambling and. different about Balthasar's really feels again like more straightforward with Mouschette. Also it's, I would say, I don't know, maybe it'd be easier for you to identify with the girl in Moushet rather than the donkey, you know, so I don't know. It's been a while since I've seen it too, but I remember definitely preferring that one. Machete. Yeah, machete. Yeah, I'm interested in checking out more of his works for sure.

I have a feeling like I'll connect with them just based on this. Even though, you know, to a lot of people it seems like this one is kind of like a standout film. I get why people would say it's less accessible, but I vibed with what it was doing and I like, you know, very similarly to the Brutalist. I like that I'm kind of like thinking about it after the film is. over and I feel like there's more to explore and I feel like there's more to get out of a second watch, you know, thinking about why things were presented in this particular way, especially like story structure and narrative choices. I thought that the, you know, there's parts of the sound design that like didn't gel with me, like some of the like narrative, like people talking,

you'd kind of hear like the background audio like fade in, like some of the white. noise or whatever. But other than that, there's a lot of really great, like, both atmospheric sound design choices and also Foley, like really good Foley for 1966. Yeah. Oh, the sound, the sound in his movie, especially his later movies, I think it becomes more crisp, La Jeanne especially is the sounds in that are so, you know, makes me think when we were talking about, no country for old men and that little like a candy rapper. and the focus on that, like the door handles opening, the sound of feet on the ground, just these little things, the bells at the end of the film are just kind of really beautiful

when you hear it compared to what is going on in the film. And another thing I saw in that interview book is Brasson said he would much rather communicate something through a sound than through an image. and there's the sequence where the kids put some like grease or oil on the road and the car crashes because of it. And I think it was in an interview with Jean-Luc Goddard. And he asked him, like, why did you just show the first car crash and not the second? And he says, well, I already showed the first car crash. I thought it'd be repetitive to show the second one.

So I just had the sound there. And I much prefer the sound. So I don't know Like you have to really get in tune with that Like the way he thinks of movies as like not even about image Because I think we are so like At least I am I'm always focused on the image first And to him it's like that's trying to deemphasize the importance of

What is you're actually seeing Yeah Very interesting I am yeah like I do gravitate a lot towards like sound and sound design which many comments say that I don't have any legitimacy talking about anymore because I liked some of the songs in Amelia Perez, but you know. Yeah. Expertise revoked. Yeah.

Can't trust what I say about movies anymore. Nope. And, you know, for the sake of consistency, you can't trust what Guillermo del Toro says about movies anymore because he liked the movie. You can't trust what Denisville Neve says about. movies anymore because he liked the movie. So those are both bad directors. Guillermo's not a real Mexican anymore. So, you know.

Just for the sake of consistency. Yeah. Glad that's cleared up. Yeah, I give it this movie an 8 out of 10. Ah. I very much enjoyed it. I would give it a, gosh, probably like an 8 or 9 out of 10. Yeah.

Nice. Glad you guys enjoyed it. This is a case where I like what it inspired a lot more than it itself. I probably will not watch this again unless I go through all of his other movies and then revisit it with the perspective of his whole career in mind. I wish out, though, I thought there was a really good, like, fade cut when there was that fella filling his water bottle with the fountain and it goes to a waterfall. I thought that was cool. And the general look of the film, I did enjoy. I just didn't care about anything that was happening.

So. What's the number? Did you give a number? Come on. Oh, yeah, I didn't get a number. I'm thinking a two-star or four out of ten for this. Sure. You revoke your cinema license.

Ah, well. You can't talk about things anymore. But I'd give a man escaped a nine out of ten or four and a half star. I really enjoyed it. I highly recommend that. Doesn't matter. You're still canceled. Yep.

It's over. I'll survive. You're worth as a critic is. determined by how much I agree with you have to say my opinions not yours and also if it has a 98 metaschool yeah that's indisputable I'm glad we talked about it I feel like it's cool to hear your your differing opinions on it also I feel like I want to watch more of his movies again so I'll definitely check out other ones yeah good yeah yeah there's

There's a bunch of directors that I need to like, pop my cherry on, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah, same. Neil Breen, I haven't seen any of his. What the fuck? Ooh, you're in for a treat. Yeah. No.

Okay, well, when his next movie is out? You have to. You have to see the theaters. The theater experience for a Neil Breen film is unparalleled. Cinema is alive. Yeah, it's very good. Cinema is fucking alive. I'll come up to Vancouver and watch it with you.

It's more likely that it'll be playing in C-N-Marlowe. But although his last film did play in Vancouver Yeah Is it a Should I tell the editor to edit out that part That you're Seattle? Oh no no no no no people know My address is out there for my social security

It's all fine All right Question time Right let's do some questions from the cell of domicast community Head over to the suggestion thread Over on the subreddit for future episodes Um, let's start with this one from admirable try 9266 speaking of. I think this came up earlier.

What's an example of a movie that insists upon itself? Peter Griffin style. Kind of really taken off that meme. And there's like different interpretations of it, I guess. Megalapolis. Oh, that's a good recent one. Yeah. I was thinking, uh, I kind of feel like conclaves that way because of that music.

I was like trying to get into it, but it was. It felt like it was insisting like, this is the biggest. aren't you there with us? Yeah. Yeah, what it's showing isn't. Like backing that up. The soundtrack feels like an entirely separate entity. Yeah.

There are a few from last year, actually. Folli adieu. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You guys are going to hate me for this one. Poor things. Do it. Anomalisa.

Oh, shit. Okay. We hate you now. You're hated. Yeah. What the hell, man. So you've only, you've seen that once, right? I've seen it once, yeah.

Yeah. I'd watch it again. Okay. Good to know. Just trying to throw out things, you know, get the sparks flying. Get the fists flying. So angry now. Yeah, I need to revisit that movie.

Yeah, I'm due for it. What's another? Yeah, I feel like a joke or folia do, though, is such a good. example of that. It really insists upon itself. It really does. Yeah. It's,

it's, you know, people, people, people, people, people, you know, their interpretation is,

is that it's an illegitimate criticism to ever say that a film insists upon itself. But I think that, you know, when somebody does say that type of thing about a film, you could just rephrase it in a different way that people aren't, you know, primed to, discredit, you know, when it, when people say it insists upon itself, they're talking about it

kind of like implying either an emotion or a level of importance or a level of skill or presentation that the film is not delivering on. So, you know, if some of the same choices were made in the brutalist, which is very much, you know, like, here's what we are, but it was like a terribly made film like Megalopolis, then that would be, you know, that would fall under that category where it's like, okay, the film is not self-aware and it's, it's not living up to what it's implying it is, is I think, what the criticism is, right? Yeah, Megalopolis is a great pick, as is like Southland Tales, just these big swings and a miss. Yeah. Is it okay that I like Megalopolis because it insists upon itself so hard that it starts to, like, spiraled in the

opposite direction? Yeah, it's just like, wow, that's, I've never, ever seen insisting that hard so I'm happy you had that experience because that's what I wanted and was hoping for instead of the dreadfully dull experience I had there um what about like uh crash everyone's been bringing crash up recently because of Perez's nominations I feel like you could uh say crash insists upon itself pretty heavily I haven't seen that one or uh what about tenant yeah yeah no yeah no I like I like I like like, I, I feel like Tenet knows. I enjoyed it. I've only seen it once, but. I feel like it knows what it is. That's the thing. I feel like it knows that it's

I don't know. Like, it does have a little bit of a parody of itself vibe though. Oh, very much so. The Nolanisms. Yeah. It's literally a parody of Nolan films. I need to rewatch that too and see how it hits. Because I saw it in IMAX and it's like, like the scale of it and the action scenes and whatnot, but I couldn't tell you what the hell happened. Yeah. It's like a heist in reverse. very epic music over two characters just like you know exposition dumping while they're walking forward like okay that's a lot that's what i love about it it's nolan just going full i don't give a fuck this is you know yeah yeah like self-parity but in a way that was like felt very

going back to his pulp pulp roots that i enjoyed yeah i definitely enjoy that one more than all the previous ones I mentioned, but we've got to do this one from Dabslough 710. Hey Sard, so the question is for Jake. Congrats on becoming the third host after our last one got murdered by Adam. But I'll just have to ask, when you abandon your newborn, what is your thought process? Do you sense your son and wife are onto you and will catch you cheating on them with movies? Or do you think that they won't notice? That's such a considerate question.

Yeah, I thought that. Yeah, no. I mean, I have to think, like, you know, to be honest, it's really fine because my wife, Nadia, is also co-host on the second channel and my, you know, we were like a business partner. So it's like makes sense for me to go do our business, you know, by seeing a movie. So and she's, you know, cool with it. But, you know, the fact of me considering how much time I spend away from my son, I have to think of the. that now every time I do anything and weigh whatever I'm doing, then it definitely affects how I think about movies and anything I'm spending my time on because I'm like, you know what,

is this really worth it? And maybe I'm a harsher critic because of that. Yeah. Yeah. I have an actual real question for you. I'm also here from Vince Nezzo. Jake. What book slash author would you recommend to Adam Alex based on their movie slash director tastes. Alex has mentioned Burrows before, which I think fits, but for Adam, I'm not as sure, I thought maybe John William Stoner, since it's kind of depressing and in my view deals with some similar themes as Charlie Kaufman's films. I think I also remember Kaufman mentioning this book during one of his press things. Any thoughts? Damn, that's a good question. I don't, I mean, I have no idea what your guys's book tastes are at all, and that can, like, be so different from movie taste.

What about based off the kind of films we enjoy? The films you enjoy? I think that... I think Adam, you love Charlie Kaufman. You like really, like, out there, artistic films. I think you'd like Thomas Pinchin. I don't know if you've read any Thomas Pinch on. I have not.

I've been, you know, diving into Gravity's Rainbow, attempting it this time again. But very, very experimental and true. trying throwing everything at the wall and uh okay yeah uh so thomas pinch on um Alex hmm you recommend where you go for me I would recommend uh they said stoner but I would recommend Butcher's Crossing I think that is a really it's a classic Western that is also not classic it's it's very like formal and the way it's it's presented but subversive and what it has to say and it's just a straight up harrowing survival tale.

I think, yeah, I'm reading the blurb. Yeah, this sounds cool. You would, you would definitely like, I did a whole video of that on my channel, but yeah, I think you'd be into that. Oh, yeah. Okay, cool. I'm, uh, you know what's funny? So in, uh, the Canadian conversations right now, we're all like, we're all like trying to find ways to cancel our subscriptions and memberships to American companies, which is funny because, like, you know, Trump talks about the, like, oh, it's a deficit, the trade deficit. It's like we're subsidizing Canada, which is just like an entirely not accurate economic understanding of what that even means. But what's funny about that is, like, within those deficits and those numbers,

like, what isn't included is, like, digital subscriptions, right? Like, every Canadian has, like, a Netflix account or like an Amazon Prime or whatever right like so who knows what the numbers would even be like if we did include those things but yeah and people are talking about like I got to pause my membership for this thing so I'm looking up will I lose my books if I cancel my audible membership and it looks like it looks like people are saying on Reddit that if you you if you paid for a title using money or credits you get you get to keep the title so I might I might use some of my credits. I might try to check out Gravity's Rainbow and cancel my audible, which is funny because I'm an affiliate for them.

This is how well I do sponsorships. I'm like, I don't really care. You guys really need that. Yeah. That was an interesting question, though. Yeah. Yeah, I dig that. Warden of the North has one for us.

If you could be a fly on the wall for the production of any film, past or present, what would it be? What are you drawn to? The drama, the intrigue, something like The Revenant, where it's an extremely difficult shoot and just watching them suffer. Might be intriguing. Or a stalker famously. I don't want to die. Yeah. Oh, true.

Yeah. Rather not be on that set. An invincible fly that's immune to nuclear waste or whatever. Yeah. radiation, the shining, obviously, things like this. Yeah, I mean, Neil Breen's up there for sure. You could learn something. I'd like to see you.

Because his production is like so secretive too. He made literally five and a half hour long self-made documentary about his filmmaking process where he says nothing. He's like, people ask me what my favorite movies are. I'm not going to tell you. Literally the entire thing is like, I do all this myself. and he just doesn't explain his process. But yeah, like, one of the things I respect the most about Michelle Hanukkah is he's able to get incredible performances out of children.

And I listened to him in like a Q&A and people asked him about that. And his answer is essentially just like, you know, as long as you just spend more time with them, like you do have to work with them more than, you know, you know, adult actors to get that performance out of them. But you just have to be mindful of like how you're interacting with them and actually take the time to get them to that place. I would love to see that process because that just sounds like even if I hear those words from him. And you know, if like let's say I direct the movie in the future and I have child actors, which is very unlikely. Let's let's say I'm working with children. even hearing that from him

I don't know how confident I would be in terms of like the amount of like patience or skill required to actually get an incredible performance out of children but you watch one of his films like the white ribbon it's like okay there's like 30 kids

in this movie and they're all giving Oscar worthy performances how the fuck did you do that right there's certain things I feel like I could very much like learn from watching his process Yeah, that's a good answer But Jake, what about the Abyss? And you mentioned that last episode

That's got a kind of famously difficult production Oh, geez, yeah, I'd rather not see that one No, I'd love to see that. No, I'd love to. Imagine the drama, the arguments, the pain and the misery. That's true. I mean, I guess I would have different answers for it like, oh, it'd be cool to see the drama on set

and, like, what actually unfolded because there's so many classic stories of movies being made, you know, fits carroll. though that'd be interesting. But I think I'd pick maybe Nashville, a Robert Altman movie because I'd want to see how he contains all of that chaos and improvisation and like how that actually unfolded. That would be really interesting for me to see. Hell yeah.

Should we do one more here? Sure. From batting flea 95. You guys have complained time and time again about when movies use music or have sequences in general to try to be cool. What are you some movies or sequences in movies that do this correctly or in a way that you legitimately think is cool or epic? When I saw this question, the first thing that popped into my head was the lighting of the beacons from Return of the King. I regularly watch that scene for this exactly. It's just cool.

It's just cool. It's just epic. What cinema's all about? You know, I love that scale. I thought the question was more, was the question more like a song, like exterior music? When movies use music will have sequences in general to try to be cool. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.

I see. So I was thinking differently about it. Yeah, that's a good one. Liding at the Beacons. Howie sure. Howie sure. He was cooking. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, in instances where I feel like those things do work, like, I don't know, top of my head, crank, you know, it's like there's a energy of the music is very much complementing the energy of the film. For me, when it works, there has to be like a synchronicity where the style of the filmmaking and what is being shown is adding to the energy of the music and the music is adding to the energy of the film. Another example is like Crescia, right? Like the way that that film is shot very much compliments the very unique and kind of like bizarre, like uncomfortable but still energetic tone of the music. You know, like the music works incredibly well in the substance. You know, the music works incredibly well in the brutalist. But when we're contrasting to things where it does not work well, so in my opinion we already brought this up conclave, it feels like the music is an entirely separate. entity from the filmmaking where in the places in the film where it's used and not used,

they might as well be interchangeable, right? So they're like incredibly static shots of just conversation and the music's pretending it's like there's some epic thing happening like or like some kind of like serious thriller drama type score. And then, you know, like 10 minutes later, there's almost kind of like a 360 almost kind of micro, you know, Bay shot and it's like the same type of conversation and there's no music and I'm like okay well that you know that that would have worked better because at least the filmmaking here the way that the camera work is being presented feels like it has a bit more of that kind of energy to it but yeah like something like conclave it just it feels like the music was an afterthought and

there it's so difficult to see the intent when it comes to like I don't know the connecting puzzle pieces of the film and how things are complimenting each other. Do you think Conclave was trying to be cool? I mean, kind of. It was, yeah, it was trying to be like epic and important. Yeah. Yeah. I found, uh, yeah, it's, it, it really depends on the movie.

Sometimes there's instances where it almost feels like it would be complimentary, but the music itself is so bad, like just terribly composed that it's, It doesn't matter, even if the filmmaking, like, somewhat matches it. One of the most distracting trying to be cool soundtracks was in a terrible film called Red. I think Bruce Willis was that. Forgo about that. That was awful, horrendous music. Absolutely, like, just cancered cancer score.

It sucked. Worst soundtrack. There's a lot of, like, post-Tarrentino movies, trying to be cool, we'll have the most obnoxious needle drops and waste everyone's time with the most bullshit sequences of like, okay, I get it, yeah, you're cool, you're ironic with the cool fun song while violence is happening. Okay, great. You're so cool. He's so cool. My last cool moment I'll shout out is the, um, that shot in Fury Road, where Tom Hardy's on that weird beam. And it's all like time.

and he's with the music and he flings up in the air. That's like a, okay, that was, that was fucking cool. I don't know what to tell you. It's just cool, man. Mm-hmm. I would say Scorsese has like 10 of these throughout his movies of just cool moments, that cool needle drop, like Layla, you know, in Goodfellas. That's one of my favorites.

Yeah. Scorsese, add some, you got to do intermissions, okay? You don't pretend Like you went through this entire year Without having seen the Brutalist Now you know it can be done Do it Or else you're dead to me buddy

Well he's got like 15 movies coming up in the works Apparently Oh Yeah Every day I feel like I see a new Scorsese's working on something new With DiCaprio So who knows

I really tried to tank it out With Flower Moon And you have to do that awkward thing Where you're like waiting for a scene that like, maybe this is a scene I don't necessarily need right now, and I can't, like, miss, like, two minutes of this moment. And it's like, ugh, just give me a brief. Yeah.

All right. That was it for questions. Thank you so much. Cool. Oh, yeah. We have a recommendation. Yes. Yeah, what have you got?

Go for it. My turn. Oh, well, all right. First, you guys like David Lynch, right? Mm-hmm. Sometimes. Okay. Okay, good, good. So he died. Rip.

And I have been wanting to watch more of his movies lately. I've seen quite a few of them, but a couple I haven't seen. Which ones have you not seen? Because I know you guys have done Wild at Heart on the channel. You've done a racerhead, I think. I was trying to find your ratings for his movies. Have you guys seen Blue Velvet? I have not seen Blue Velvet.

I have not seen Lost Highway. I have not seen Elephant Man and those are like I think the three biggest Maybe I should go to as I am being I've seen Blue Velvet not Elephant Man or Highway Yeah you haven't seen Lost Highway No

You guys have seen Mahal and Drive Have you guys seen Firewalk with me? No I haven't seen Firewalk with me But do I have to watch like Twin Peaks? Yeah I figured I had to watch the show Oh yeah Yeah that might be weird if you haven't seen the show

Okay Let's do Lost High How does that sound? That sounds great. Good for me. How are you? Very awesome.

Cool. Lost Highway. Nice. If you haven't seen Lost Highway, 1997, directed by David Lynch. Watch it before the next episode comes out. These episodes come out every two weeks. You can listen to them early and support the show by going to patreon.com slash sardonicast. Also, sardonicast.com sign up for premium.

Or just click on the thing on the YouTube. video. You see where it says join. Fucking join that shit. Help us out. Do it. Do it. Join. Also, where there's a Sardonicast Highlights channel. You could check that out too. Maybe subscribe. Maybe hit the bell. Okay. Have a happy day. Happy donkey. Happy donkey. Thank you for the intellectually stimulating conversation, my friends. Absolutely. Yeah, I did. You know, we did a lot better than I thought we would with Alex and I being so sleep deprived we just kind of got into it there were a couple moments but yeah you're getting into that rhythm yeah the Brutalist is just such like a it's it's such an

intellectually stimulating film that it's like exciting to talk about yeah yeah I feel really stimulated right now guys just I'm stimming out yeah all yeah thanks for listening everybody bye bye see everyone bye