Sardonicast - Sardonicast 185: 2025 Oscar Winners, Starship Troopers

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

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Three, two, one. I'm doing my part. A classic quote from Starship Troopers. I'm Adam. Not a lot of energy there. Well, shut up. I'm Adam. This is Sardana cast.

I'm from your movie sucks also, but this is Sardonicast. And I've been not having great energy in general because I'm dealing with illnesses. Jake. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm doing my part. Classic entry, man. Yeah, I'm Alex from I-H-E and you're trying to be a hero, Jake?

Trying to be a hero of you? There you go. That's fun. That's good. The only good bug is a dead bug. I'm Jake from A. Caring, Wone Carrying Man, etc. Yes.

The Oscars just happened. even though this episode is going to come out publicly in like what a couple weeks or something I don't know yeah a bit belated we're recording this a little early but the Oscars just happened for us so we're going to talk about them I looked up the viewership it says viewership down 7% amid Hulu glitches and lengthy runtime like what is it was it longer than normal or something how did long say so let's see uh three hours 47 minutes it was one of the longer Oscars on record, but not the longer. It's like, okay, yeah, I expect them to go three to four hours.

Yeah, he had the longest speech in history. Yeah. Which is so funny. Yeah. Because he was just like, I'll be quick. I'll wrap it up. And he didn't. And they stopped the music.

I love how he's like, no, no, I have something important to say. And then you see in his eyes, he's really thinking like, oh, shit. Okay. I need something good to say. And then he's like, I need to say something about. love and hate and war but I can't pick any side so you know yeah just kiss everybody and then leave dude yeah yeah you did do a lot of kissing he was a kiss slay he was I don't know I kind of popped my oscar's cherry with this one I've never watched a full show before because it's

just on at such an awkward time for UK citizens but I hopped on Adam stream and I don't know I like Conan as a host I was kind of laughing at some of his jokes which I most definitely would not be doing if it was one of the many jimmies that seemed to host all the TV shows over there. Yeah, yeah. This was one of the more tolerable Oscars programs. Conan was actually funny. He actually had some good jokes, some good gags.

Like, I wasn't wanting to crawl out of my fucking skin every time. You know, he was shown unlike Jimmy. There were a couple of cringe moments. There were, but it wasn't too bad. There were a couple, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was, it went surprisingly well. And that's why I'm shocked to see that the viewership's down, but also shouldn't be surprised because people are just watching these things less anyway.

I hope they don't go back to Jimmy or something. Because you know that the organization is going to see, oh, down 7%. They must not have liked Conan. Right? I don't know. My favorite joke was the Amelia Perez one where he's like, Carlos Sophia Gascon, if he's, like, Carlos Sophia Gascon, if you're going to tweet about me, my name is Jimmy Kimmel. Yeah, I love that joke.

That was my favorite joke. That was fun. Yeah, he did a lot of great stuff. So you watched the whole broadcast as well, Jake? I did, yeah. Well, except when Hulu shut me out of the last two awards. That's, yeah, I heard that happen. So weird, they did that.

It was very stupid and bizarre. I heard also it happened on YouTube TV, but I'm not totally sure. Yeah, it was just like, all right, the show is. over. Sorry. Have fun. Wow. And yeah. This seems to be had. So this was the first year it was on Hulu, I believe. And so it's like, okay, you've got the

what, most watched award show probably. Like this is the biggest. Like people watch this more than the Grammys, right? Maybe. Maybe I'm crazy. And you advertise that you're going to have it on your streaming platform. And then what? Like you just didn't have the proper infrastructure.

for this? Because the exact same thing happened with Netflix in that Jake Paul fight, the Mike Tyson thing, like, it was fucking up for everybody. And so it's like, okay, well, if it's not possible by the largest

streaming infrastructures in the world, is it because it's impossible? Or did you just cheap out and not prepare properly? Like, I don't know. You got to love Silicon. You got to love Silicon Valley logic, these tech companies being like, we are innovating.

We are changing TV forever and we're making it worse, but the same. Yeah, it's so funny. I'm the only person I know, I think, period, that still pays for basic cable and I use it just for the Oscars. Because it's reliable and I do my Oscars stream, right? Yeah. Like I true sinophile right there I heard that it was going to be on Hulu and I thought about it

I'm like no I don't want to risk it something something could go wonky and I wouldn't even know if it would be available in Canada sort of thing so I'm just like I'm going to stick with my dumb stupid basic cable and reliable though

apparently yeah yeah for for a live event and then it was having some issues right kept breaking up at some points it's like crazy Yeah, there were some audio issues for some reason, but that was about it. Like, it was a little crackly at points, but I mean, can't really complain. I got to see all of the awards.

Yeah. All right, who won? And speaking of, yeah, let's start going through the list now. I'll just go through the winners in each category. Let's start with actor in a leading role of the official website here. Adrian Brody, as we just mentioned, is the winner for the Brutelist. My person can't be mad about that. That's who I would have picked from the selection there.

Yeah, best performance, worst speech. I was rooting for him, honestly, until he opened his mouth. I feel bad because I was like, yeah, great performance, really good. And then like, you know, 10 minutes into his 30 minutes speech, I was kind of like, oh, okay. Maybe Timothy Shalmay would have been, I mean, he would have been cool to see when, honestly, but, you know, it's not his time. I'm sure he'll be back there, not worried about him. Yeah, probably. Yeah, so young.

Yeah, I was 68 gonsters in by that point, so I didn't even care about the speech. So, yeah. It was like three in the morning. Oh, yeah, and you said the gonster was surprisingly good, by the way. Yeah, yeah, I'll bring that up in the question section later. Go into a bit more. Yeah, actor in a supporting role, we got Kieran Culkin for a real pain. And surprising nobody.

One of the surprising wins, probably. I think it was the most obvious, if you were to predict one award, that would be it. That was, everything else was more up in the air than that award for sure. I really liked him in the movie. I can't be upset by that pick. But I also wouldn't have been upset if it was Jeremy Strong or Guy Pearce. He was great. I thought the other four did better, but.

Yeah. Not Ebenorten or a complete unknown, personally. I'm kind of glad that I didn't get anything. I know you like it, Jake, but... You guys both hate a complete unknown, and, um, I don't know. I feel like I can only chalk that up to you. you're not real Bobheads. I mean,

or Dylan fans. I was kind of more upset because of like how much I do enjoy Bob Dylan. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. Like the weird like cosplay Tim Chan performance just didn't work for me. It just felt like so like fake and inauthentic to me.

And like every time they were getting to the performances, which is like the best part of the movie, I was just thinking, well, I could just like watch life performances at Bob Dylan play or just listen to the real genuence. songs. Yeah. Yeah, that was just not for me. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's true of any musical biopic. Like, you can just watch Freddie Mercury actually perform if you want. Yeah. Bob Dylan, same. Unless it's better man. You go CGApe doing it, then I'm bad. Yeah. I think it would have been

better if Bob Dylan was a monkey. Yeah. Hell yeah. I'll be there for that. True. Let's do every biopic like that. Well, yeah, I guess bombing just confirms we're never going to do that kind of thing ever again. Only for white people, though. That'd be problematic. Actress in a leading role. We've got Mikey Madison for Anora. But some people are upset by this because I guess Demi Moore for the substance

would have been, I suppose, a more kind of interesting pick, especially with what the movie's about. But I can't be upset about Mikey Madison. I was rooting for Demi. Yeah, but people are taking it too seriously. I was actually shocked. That seemed to be like the. the most contentious thing on Twitter and everywhere, like people.

Yeah, there's a weird, I don't know, it's kind of trapped on Twitter, it seems, but like a bit of a Sean Baker, like, hate mob on there, like, looking at the people he follows for research and stuff and trying to make out that he's like a bad person or something weird like this. Oh, yeah, I heard about that. I don't even know what they're talking about. Also, I follow everybody. Yeah, I don't know why it's an automatic. endorsement just to yeah I don't know he has a bunch of different like characters and he's a writer like you're gonna look up all sorts of people and follow

I don't know yeah um that was a weird to me if you're interested in the human brain which clearly he is based on the characters that he's writing and a lot of his characters being unethical then you might you might want to you know see what other brains are like that's a very very valid experience yeah I think also it's just the curse of winning and because coming the establishment, you know, he's an outsider for so long, and now it's like the narrative has flipped. Same for Mikey Madison, you know, it's just, I don't know, people get up in arms about that stuff. Yeah, and these really disingenuous arguments I've seen of people taking, like, out of context lines from an aura and being like, this is the writing that won? And it was like, well, in context, that's actually like a good line.

They said the word vagina. Yeah. Yeah, some goofy people out there, some bad faith interpretations. but that's always the case, especially on Twitter nowadays. Let's do actress in a supporting role then. Probably one of the more controversial ones, actually, I guess, but also not surprising of Zoe Saldania for Amelia Perez. I bet the two Amelia Perez wins for the night out of the, was it, 13 norms it had.

So this was one of them, not very surprising. I suppose in a vacuum she was fine in the movie. I've got no issue with her personally, but I would have probably, You're giving it to Flistie Jones, if I could have, if it's any sway in it? Yeah. I've given up talking about that film, the EP film. Yeah, we should Voldemorto so we don't get comments. It is no longer.

We should just not even mention it. I'm so over it. It's just dominating the comment section in the past three videos. The last one, it makes sense because it was in the title. But, you know. Yeah, yeah. That's true. Um, a more subversive win for animated feature film with flow winning, which I just saw for myself, um, right before the Oscar stream.

Yeah, very cool. Get that one in there. Um, I thought it was good. Uh, yeah, Latvian film, which is rare. Um, and especially cool that it was, you know, an indie film, low budget. Yeah, the first. Oh, yeah, the first, uh, and the fact it was made in blender and stuff. I was watching some of those videos.

Really cool. Yeah. Can't be upset about that. Yeah. Historic. Even though it wouldn't personally be my pick. Yeah. Too bad animation is for babies or else I would watch it.

True, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just wish Mars Express could have been on that. Wait, I have a baby. I guess I could watch it. Yeah. No more excuses. You got to show them Gaspar and O.A.

Oh, Climax. Hell yeah. Yeah. Should I skip over animated short film? Yeah. I haven't seen any of them. Yeah, sorry guys. the shorts.

We didn't watch him. Sorry. Neither did the Academy. Yeah, well, they don't see like 90% of these, I'm sure. Yeah, cinematography, the Brutalist, lull, gruelly coming in strong. Again, I'm happy. I kind of wanted the Brutelist to win more,

but I'm glad it got what it did get. There's one in particular that I mention when we get to that award, but I'm happy it got what it did. It definitely is deserved for that cinematography. Otherwise, I don't know. There's some strong contendants I hadn't seen Maria.

That was the only one out of that selection, but also wouldn't have been upset with Doom Part 2 or Nosferatu personally. Yeah. I have a feeling one of the next Marvel movies is going to be shot in VistaVision. And you know, VistaVision, that's the new thing. That's the trend now. Yeah.

I'm all for it. Costume design. The winner was Wicked. Paul Tazewell. Not very surprising again. I was kind of more surprised that Wicked didn't win more. I was kind of feeling with the controversy around EP that maybe they'd lean more into the safe option of Wicked.

But yeah, one costume design there, even though again I probably would have given that to Nosphiratu, actually, was my pick. Yeah, sure. I mean, Wicked had a lot of costumes in it, and they were colorful. Yep, I guess that's the bottom. If you have the most costumes, yeah.

Yeah. You should want. Yeah. I can't even be mad about that when I do like the costumes in that movie. Right. Directing. Anora, Sean Baker won. This is one I was kind of alluding to earlier where I wish Brady Corbe. And now we know it is Corbe for sure. Yes, I found out finally. That's what you get when you ask a question to a large audience, someone will find it. And if you're like me and you check your own subreddits every once in a while,

You get good information eventually. Eventually, after a long time. I mean, as long as it's sourced, then I can trust it. Uh-huh. But actually, I don't know if you guys knew, the C is like an S sound. So it's actually sorbet. Ooh. Oh.

Sherbert. Oh, God. Yeah, I can't be upset about Onora there. Yeah, I was happy with that. Yeah. Yeah, I was just thinking purely from the perspective, and I think I had to mention this on the stream, just how it might help Brady Corby specifically if he had this win on his back. Yeah. I think he's already got his next project funded and ready to go for this year.

So, and the wins on the Brutalist will help anyway. Yeah. Can't be too upset about that. Baker gets to make literally whatever he wants now. Corby gets to make something. Corvay is in a better situation than he was before this movie, yes and probably a really great. Like it's an Oscar winning film

and I believe it made profit, right? I think so, yeah. They're going to be making Eternals 2 and 3. Let's get a sequel to the Brewlist. Oh, good. Documentary feature film. I don't really have anything to say, but no other land won that one. I'll be curious to check that out.

Actually, I just haven't had a chance to go through these. Yeah, I want to see that. I've had the opportunity to watch it, but I just don't. I haven't been in the mood to be, like, sad. You don't want to ruin your day. Yeah. Yeah. Film editing then.

Just continuing the Enora sweep. Sean Baker winning that one too. Of course, he wrote and edited and directed, so there's lots of awards to give him for that film. Yeah. Again, can't be upset. I think that's really cool, a director editing their own film. Because it is the voice, right?

Editing is just as much of a voice as directing, depending on the film, more so, right? Yeah, it can save films entirely, yeah. Yeah. I really liked how he said that he really saved the movie and the edit and the director should never work again. I thought that was pretty funny. Yeah, yeah.

He's a funny man. International feature film was next in which I'm still here. Was the winner from Brazil? Yeah. That's the only one I haven't seen because I just hasn't come out on digital yet and I wasn't able to go to the cinema to see it. Well, a shout out to The Girl with the Needle. That was fantastic from Denmark. Yeah.

Exceptionally dark. So my God, is it dark? Yeah, I also did really enjoy the seed of sacred fig actually as well. Did you also feel the ending was a little shit? I yeah I saw you say that in that video in your video but uh I don't know I didn't actually mind you were fine with it okay I was fine with it how it kind of turned into a microcosm of what the film was about um but yeah makeup and hairstyling uh the substance a horror film based winning an Oscar which is cool yeah I'm happy about that uh I thought the cynic in me thought that like wicked or something would take it the safer option but I'm

very glad the substance got something she was green the whole time. Exactly, yeah. Lots of green. Music original score, I was getting scared around this point. That maybe Conclave will wink, because that was, I just didn't like the score in that movie, personally. Weird that it was nominated.

But the Brutalus came in. Daniel Bloomberg, winning for that. I think we mentioned before how great that score is and it would have been crazy to give it to anything else. Except challengers, which wasn't nominated. Yeah, exactly. I was about to say the same thing. Yeah, the two, Trent Reznor and.

Nauticus Ross scores, I think both could have been nominated, actually, and fit in that category comfortably. Have you seen this weird fucking photo of Brady? What the fuck? That I'm both singing it? Yeah. Whereas like... What is the context?

And then there's like an... Oh, that's a shadow. Okay. I thought there was a third person in the frame. Like, it was a thruffle. No, that's just their shadow. I'm thinking we should recreate that. Oh, yeah.

I'll be the shadow. Cool. yeah what a weird a weird it's like a black and white photo maybe I'll put it in the intro yeah explain it for the audio listeners who won't have a visual

the composer who looks like I don't know rubber Johnny from the Apex twin music video or Nosferatu or Nospiratu is being held like a baby by Brady

Corbe and it's a very weird vibe with this stone face expression the entire crew for the brutalist were just open mouth kissing each other the entire night every single time one of them won an award they would just go through the entire crew

and just mom they were all I think they're all in a weird sex cult hey it worked for their movie Brady's gonna get canceled in the future for like literally being the head of a sex cult. That's my prediction. I don't know.

I think every composer and director should do this kind of photo shoot, you know, really intimate Spielberg and John Williams, Denny and Hans Zimmer. It would be fun. I'd love to see that. Hey, if it gets results, it gets results. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very happy that one.

I've still got that soundtrack in my rotation. Yeah. It's incredible. We're getting to some, some of the, maybe the most cringy moment of the night for me was the next category, the music original song, the El Malle acceptance speech was very strange where they like started singing into the mic. That was very cringe. Yeah, yeah, very embarrassing stuff. But I just don't have a strong take on this category. It just wasn't very strong to me.

Yeah, it was pretty weakier for that. They could have put in the hundreds of Beaver song. True. I still need to see that. What the fuck? My God. Jump on on Jake. I'm sure, I'm sure they're still doing, like, it's, I'm sure they're still doing

theatrical screenings, because it's such a, like, cult fun movie. Like, just a bunch of indie theaters just keep playing it anyway, because it's such a great movie with a crowd, too. Yeah, I bet. I love how the Twitter account keeps, like, doing the fan edits of, like, different movie posters but with the beaver characters. They've got great social media. Nora one. Yeah, yeah, it's very smart.

But yeah, the big one of the night, I guess, best picture. So another one for a Nora. Again, not particularly surprising. Baker's just, he's got carte blanche, let's say. What do you guys think this says about the industry? What does this say about the future of Hollywood? Well, everyone in Hollywood definitely knows a sex worker,

so that's why it won. Yeah. Okay. That sounds great. Yeah, that just kind of says it all. Production design, another win for Wicked. Again, not particularly surprising. I don't know if it would have been my pick.

I would have given that probably to Doom Part 2, actually. Yeah, just because of the scale. I love it and how much they succeeded with that and the variety of it I would have handed it to that but I mean Wicked was a big production too I did love the sets in there and what they're going for so

can't be too upset in fact so far like what I've read I'm not really upset by many of these outside of the yeah the two for Perez I mean yeah are you are you rich okay it's like unsurprising though you know it's not surprising

um a bit boring of them are surprised Yeah, it's quite boring. Let's go to sound then. I guess one of the two wins for Dune, I think. Yeah, which, yeah, great pick. I keep forgetting to lock the loudest movie for the sound movie. Yeah?

It was the loudest, but it also was the pick. Sure. In my opinion. Yeah, I was going off your advice, Adam. I was like, you know, he was talking about a complete unknown winning because of, it's music. if they play music and I was led astray

so now I know I need to pick the loudest movie Yeah I didn't say Complete Unknown would win I'd said that's why they nominated it I think One of us is crazy Okay Either way I'm blaming you

Okay I usually get that from people I am a scapegoat to many And I will continue being so You deserve it Thank you. Visual effects was next. Another one for Dune part two.

Probably the one I would have picked as well. Yep. Nice. From that selection, I would pick Dune. So I'm happy about that. Again, with that scale. Yeah, just very well achieved all round. Yeah, nothing controversial to say there.

Writing adapted screenplays next in which Conclave won. Is that the only when Conclave got? Yeah, I think it was. I think so. for adapted screenplay, which, I don't know. I wouldn't have been my pick personally. I probably would have given it to Nickel Boys, which, now that I've seen it, it was quite snub for me, especially in cinematography.

It really stood out to me and how uniquely shot it was. I don't know. They obviously don't watch it, and they're just chucking it in this category, I guess, because it's easy. But yeah, whatever. I was kind of expecting Concleve to win more, just because of like the safety of it and kind of the buzz but uh whatever it's because the Pope recovered his health you know it was a big marketing push to try to kill the Pope before the move before the

Oscars because then it swept all the awards but he was like screw you guys I'm back I'm staying and last but not least writing original screenplay another win for anora just an utter anora sweep which yeah I just can't be mad about Sean Baker is, I think, the second person in history to win four Oscars in one night after Walt Disney. Really? Wow. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

A similarly uncontroversial fellow. Mm-hmm. In good company. I know people were saying that Bong Joon Ho won four as well, but I think the reason they're not counting him is because the award for best. international feature goes to the country and not the filmmakers, which is so horrible. That is funny. What is a country going to do with an Oscar? What do they do with it?

Just go to a museum? Like, does it? Yeah, who actually gets it? Goes in the equivalent of the White House. Goes in their parliamentary building. I guess. Yeah. Donald Trump, you get a Nora's Oscar.

Yeah, so I mean, we kind of rocketed. through those that was a solid a solid list as far as I'm concerned a few snubs here and there but I just can't get too passionate or mad really a lot of the ones that deserved it got it there we go I'm just happy everyone's happy you know all these lovely celebrities they're like my best friends you know I feel like I know them oh yeah I feel the same way yeah just so real and genuine yeah a lot of them I have a parissocial really relationship with everyone I see on the television. Yeah.

It's debilitating. I like that. I like that Timothy Shalameh looked like a stick of butter, you know, that made me like him even more. Yeah. That was maybe like the weirdest fit. Like he just, he wanted to be seen all the time. I like it. I'm team Timothy Tim Timmote I'm on his side

I think he's going to be winning big for Marty Supreme next year Oh he's in that That's my prediction He is the star of that I believe Okay yeah sure why not Yeah that's your lock I mean yeah he's on fire

That's my lock of the year One year ahead Yes Yeah and he's only 29 Yeah pretty Uncontroversial Oscars Despite how controversial it seemed going into it.

Yeah, the buildup seemed like more controversial than the actual night. Yeah. Hopefully it will dissipate now as of us recording. We'll know by the time this is live, probably. Yeah. It was a good program, all things considered. It was too long, but I mean, compared to the, all the Jimmy Kimmel Oscars, this was a breeze, an absolute breeze.

Here's a question for you guys What is the worst best picture winner of the 2010s and 2020s so far? So I guess the past 15 years. Okay, let's see. I don't know, Green Book? Let me look it out. Because I think it's been kind of up and down.

Academy Award for Best Picture. Best Picture winners. From the 2010s, you say? Yeah, from 2010 to now. Yeah. Right, so we can't say crush. Yeah, that's why I did it that. Yeah

Um From 2010s It's a lot of good movies in here Yeah I mean I did like the King's speech But there were better picks that year Argo was kind of forgettable Yeah

I'm curious how that holds up I remember liking it in 2012 But I haven't thought about it since probably And kind of similarly For Nomad land as well Yeah Yeah, everybody forgot about that the day after the Oscars. Yeah.

Yeah, Spotlight, not a huge fan of. Green Book, obviously, not. That one came out of nowhere for me. Yeah. No one was predicting that. Coda was good, but it just, nobody talked about it the day after, you know? It's very much like a just Oscar baity kind of like, Hallmark movie type of thing.

Yeah. So only those ones. Most of the wins have been, at the very least, good movies. Sometimes they were the best out of the nominees. Like Birdman was my favorite that year. Yeah. Yeah, most of it is actually great.

Parasides amazing. 12 years is amazing. Yeah. The artist. No one talks about the artist anymore. True. Yeah. It was good, but

It's like, when am I going to want to watch it again now? I liked it, but you know, that was not a strong year looking at all the Yeah, that's kind of a weird year. Yeah, War Horse Tree of Life Moneyball, Midnight and Paris, Hugo, the help extremely loud and incredibly close to the descendants, yeah. Weird. What was in the air in 2011? Yeah. The kid with the bike?

All right, uh, I guess time to talk about the movie. Yeah, I guess we can go into my pick, which was Starship Troopers, the Paul Verhoeven 1997 film, a strangely prescient, controversial misread film, I'd say overall. A double narrative, some might say, on his face is about a war with bugs set in the future. Uh-huh. I've had a really fun journey with this film every time I've watched. it I kind of fell in love with it when I was probably too young to be watching it now that I'm thinking about it and kind of just taking it at face value and getting

just frightened by that creature design and the idea of going against these bugs that you are in these huge hordes that you cannot seem to overcome and just the fear of that that and how scary the practical effects and the design of everything was but then revisiting it with a little bit more understanding of commentary in writing as a not a kid anymore and just kind of seeing the I don't know I've when the film came out it was controversial supposedly for it being branded as a kind of pro-fascist movie selling these ideas that because it's based on a book written in the 60s I believe which was quite a overtly almost inverse of this movie a pro very pro military kind of commentary on Yeah, the state of America at the time and the Just the complete inverse of this movie from what I read about it

Interesting. And like I read the plot and it yeah So I think the kind of creative impetus the Verhoeven took from it was that he didn't like the messages of the book and wanted to completely flip it on its face and Somehow through some just insane means was given a hundred and five million dollars which is obscene now let alone in 97 which is about 200 million adjusted for inflation, which would still be wild for a film, especially like this and this level of violence and commentary to be given. But he got it, Verhoeven got it, and it's got this crazy over-the-top tone, Phil Tippett puppet designs, and all of this crazy technology coming together to sell this, I don't know, wonderful film that I just got something more out of it every time.

I think it's so goofy, so over the top. I can't believe it got made. I had well of a time watching this again. It flew by for me. What about you guys? Jake. Well, this was my first time seeing this. So I was really excited you recommended this.

Alex, it's weird because I know, like, I'd seen some scenes growing up for sure, like on TV. But I was mostly aware of this movie through, like, video essays and commentary. about this movie because it is such a popular movie to discuss online. I know I think Knowing Better has a good video on it and stuff. There's lots of interesting takes and reads on what the movie is saying because I think it is, it has to be one of the most, like you were saying, misunderstood movies for that budget of people not really getting the bit of what it's doing, which is kind of crazy because, you know, going in with the understanding of, oh, this is a satire.

of fascism, you know, and it's a critique of, you know, the American military industrial complex and stuff like that. It feels very clear, but you, but what I didn't understand, like I understood intellectually from watching like critiques of the movie, like, okay, this is what it's trying to say and do. That's really cool. But actually watching it and experiencing it, it is an exciting movie. And it's very effective just without any of the comments. So I can see completely how people didn't really understand if it was a parody or a satire or anything because it is so skillful at reeling you in and buying the propaganda.

It's kind of a it's kind of a masterpiece. I'm like I was blown away at how like awful I was feeling watching this movie. Like it is yeah, it is so funny and ridiculous and over the top. There were moments where I was like, what the hell? But then there's like moments of violence that are so quick and horrifying and it brushes over and there's a swell of heroic music and everyone's cheering again. And it's like, this is so disturbing, you know. And we also have, you know, like, yeah, 25, 27 years. Well, I guess this came out of the era was born.

So, yeah, 27 years of like perspective on where the country has gone since 1997. You know, this movie was super prescient, I think. So, yeah, I just, I had an amazing time. It was such a fascinating movie to experience and thrilling. And it made me feel sick inside. So good job, Paul Verhoeven. Yeah, I watched this movie when I was younger at least once, maybe once or twice. And I remember enjoying it.

And I remember that I don't remember exactly what moment that it clicked for me that like, oh, this is like, this is got, this has got kind of like a self-aware, comedic kind of like satirical vibe to it. But I do remember having like a weird kind of moment with it when I was younger. I just, I just don't remember at what point in the film. Um, certainly didn't, you know, understand it as well as I do now watching it as an adult, uh, because I think it was like 15 or something. But yeah, I mean, like, it's it's something that works either way, right? Like, I know plenty of people that just they like military movies. And this is in their rotation because there's people, you know, they like space marines, you know. And it's fun. And it's, it's, it's very effective,

regardless of whether or not you want to, to pick apart the deeper meanings or the satirical elements or the commentary on the military industrial complex. Yeah, and I think that's the only way it can work in terms of turning a profit is if it works both ways, right? Well, you say that, but it didn't even, it didn't, it kind of bombed. Like it made about his budget back. And it's kind of a classic now, so I'm sure it sold a lot of DVDs, but it wasn't a big hit in the, in theaters.

It made about $105 million. I mean, they had a sequel by like 2004, so it must have made enough on... With like, they had like $10 million budgets and they're both garbage. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see actually there's four sequels. Yeah, and a bunch of like animated spinoffs and whatever and like video games and it's influence is kind of disproportionate to that level of success that it didn't find. Because yeah, like I was thinking of Halo through this and how much it inspired through the

visual language of that kind of military sci-fi and the helmets and everything and the music and everything like this um or recently hell divers as well like it's just so blatant uh both sony products as well i don't even know they could have made that like a starship troopers like game is so like one-to-one almost with the the like fascism thing and like the for democracy like angle and this kind of stuff never played it but yeah i'm i'm curious though about the because you're right about this this double narrative and that you can just enjoy it on its face and it works just being there with the characters and the fear of like just how I just love that whole structure of the buildup of these like kind of starry-eyed recruits and then the second they're actually in the warfare it's like the most horrifying thing

you've ever seen and their friends are being like exploded and decapitated and the violence is so like it's so effective and real feeling with the way it's put together in this combination of visual effects But I was also just thinking this time, especially by when like at the end of the movie, I guess, spoilers, half those haven't seen it, when Neil Patrick Harris shows up, like, literally dressed like a Nazi. I'm just like, how like, there's like no subtlity. It's like as subtle as the boys, like with some of this stuff. And with like the way it's edited together with these these propaganda ads that we need you and the, I don't. I don't know, it just seems so, is it just like a thing of once you notice it you can't unsee it, do you think? Or, because it's, it's quite a weird debate online.

Because I have been playing held over's recently, I guess my Twitter algorithm has figured out that I want to be hearing about Starship Troopers. And I found this crazy thread of people talking about this film. Let me just read this tweet. I won't say who it's by, but it's got like 8,000 likes and 151,000 views. Verhoeven made a cool movie he intended as a critique of fascism or whatever. But when you put handsome and likable white people in a war of annihilation against genocidal bug monsters, everyone who isn't a gay communist correctly identifies with the humans. And as Jake was saying, it's this weird conversation online where people seem to be debating it. I don't know.

When you actually listen to Paul Verhoeven talk about this film, there's a great 30 minute interview of him. I guess there was like a fan screening of it like 10 years ago or so. and he very much just is like yeah this is what it is they're heroes but by the way they're fascist like it's not like

the people didn't know and he's talking about the writing process and how like they were laughing throughout the whole creation of it and it was I don't know it's like it's so bare faced almost but I don't know even know why it's that

controversial from that angle yeah well so I do this thing whenever I'm in the United States of America where I turn on Fox News in my hotel room because it's fascinating to me. Like it's genuinely fascinating to me. You have to understand that there's a significant like huge gigantic chunk of the population that sees that as news as just a normal. They turn on the television and it's a normal thing.

And like, you know, the military propaganda adds within this film, you know, their parody, their critique But, you know, to a lot of people that's just normal, right? To a lot of people, they see something like that. And that's just like, oh, the thing that I like the military and I should, you know, they see that already in like their day to day life. True. Yeah. So I don't know. It really, it really depends on the person.

But there are, there's a huge chunk of Americans that like, they don't understand. because they're not from not America sort of thing. Right. You know? Yeah. And I guess it does seduce the audience in a way. They hear someone like me saying that sort of thing. And then without any perspective, they go, well, your CBC is probably the same propaganda.

Because I've seen Ben Shapiro talk about how the CBC said this. But they have no perspective and they don't understand that it's like not equivalent in the slightest. like it's like absolutely incomparable in terms of like accuracy or spin or you know the yeah i guess you're right because i just don't have this perspective as a brit that just has a different attitude or media in general and there's there's a scene in the film which is supposed to highlight just how kind of extra over-the-top fascist they are the the kind of infamous shower scene which they're so deep down the rabbit hole that they're all kind of naked together as people of all different race of gender and the sexuality of it they were like libidolus kind of they're so like

preoccupied with their military career that they're not even like there's nothing really erotic about it but um seeing uh verhoven talk about that scene was like really funny to me to me and kind of feeds into what you're just saying um there's a funny quote from a 2014 and interview I found when he says, it's strange, but of course, Americans get more upset about nudity than ultraviolence. I'm constantly amazed about that. I mean, I haven't seen any sex scenes in an American film. There anything other than completely boring.

A bare breast is more difficult to get through the sensors than a body riddle with bullets. Yeah, I guess that's a funny way of burning it and thinking about it. Yeah. I'm also, it's one of those things where, like, when something turns into, an online conversation and people are arguing with each other and people have strong opinions sort of thing. I am confused at this point what people's base perspectives actually are. So it's like if I see someone arguing against something, is the something they're arguing against even a sincerely held belief or did they create a straw man? So like what's what's the person is the perspective really like how many how many people are saying?

the bugs are the good guys and that's as like simple as it gets. Because like I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. Like I think throughout the film they were saying they're just like us, right? Like they say that line a few times. It's not necessarily the bugs are the good guys. It's like, oh, these are two species at war that, you know, it to try and I don't know if the right word is dehumanize or otherwise, you know, the other eyes. you know, the other species, they might just be exactly like you and they might be fighting for the same reason sort of thing, right? Not necessarily the bugs are the good guys. It's just

like, oh. I think that's also so brilliant about like the villains being bugs because there's this instinctual kind of dislike of like, ew, gross bugs. So have it like you, you just, I guess how that is how the film seduces you. It's like you kind of instinctually don't like the gross bugs and you don't want to be near them when you want to be the side of what you are being the humans. but that gives it that layer of complexity where... Yeah. They do what propaganda does, where they're talking about how the bugs are simultaneously stupid

and that it's offensive to talk about the fact that they might be smart, but then at the same time, they're also smart enough to, like, send asteroids across the galaxy and crash them into Puerto Rico. See, I was... I'm actually curious if, like, the asteroid thing is, like, a false flag event.

If it was just an asteroid. That's my interpretation. Yeah. Or I don't know if it's something to do with that when the pilot character crashes into that asteroid and maybe changes it its trajectory. And then they kind of just change the commentary of it from and see it as a chance to hop on and be like, oh, we can get a bunch of recruits just like in World War II with Nagasaki or whatever.

Sorry, not Nagasaki. Po Harbor. And how many people signed up after that kind of event and just a little bit of a commentary on that sort of idea of, yeah, like this. this atrocity has happened. We can fund our military and boost the numbers and get the war machine rolling type thing. And I like how the film kind of leaves it open. It doesn't give you a strong answer because so much of the information is delivered to you

through that propaganda lens of what you're seeing on the TV. So it's like, what can you believe? What is real? Yeah. What it lies? Yeah, exactly. It is very much up to interpretation in that sense. So I'm like, yeah, I think that there's a nuanced conversation to be had where in my experience, my experience with the film, I can still think about what it's trying to say, but obviously I still also empathize with the human characters because that's just a thing, you know, like that's a part of our brains is like we naturally empathize with human.

Like both can be true at the same time. I don't know who made that tweet. Like I still empathize with the human characters for sure, but can still understand. Yeah, I do as well. Like that there's a layer of like, oh, this is propaganda sort of thing, you know. And it's kind of pointing out the irony of the villains being these hive mind communal bugs. But then like the main characters are kind of being a hive mind of their own and like the way they're kind of just being led by things they don't understand or through forces bigger than them. And it's not necessarily about like siding with one or the other.

It's more about what it's saying with this conflict. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's a larger brain organism controlling the troops for the human characters, too, in a way. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I mean, I feel like the movie is really critiquing even like cinematic language itself on a certain level.

Because, you know, it makes sense that people wouldn't see the satirical edge necessarily because like this is the language of action and violence on screen. True, yeah. Until it gets really cartoonish like that one scene where the drill sergeant or whatever throws a knife through one of the recruits' hands and it's just like glossed over. Like, yeah, that's normal. Like this is just what you got to do, you know, there's so much like, all right, if I'm going to be killed, you got to shoot me in the head.

Like, that's the good thing to do. If you are being a coward, you're going to get shot. And it's like so uncritical and it's so strange. And, you know, I was thinking also about like, you know, a lot of like just the fundamental language of movies comes from propaganda, like the birth of a nation, you know. I was starting, you know, like the ending of birth of a nation is exciting. Like it's cross-cutting, it's action, it's a heroic rescue, et cetera. And it's the KKK, you know.

And it's so I got a similar feeling watching, you know, the end of this movie because you see, the propaganda, you feel it, but you also get the excitement of what, like, movies can do and how editing and emotions are so powerful and manipulative. And I know also, like, Verhoeven, I believe he grew up in Nazi-occupied Amsterdam, I think. So he has, like, a very direct relationship to that whole world and Nazism in general. And Lenny Reef and Schall, you know, Triumph of the Will is still considered like a quote-unquote great film, but it's a propaganda film.

So, yeah, I guess that's all I'm adding there. Yeah, and you're right about that kind of innate excitement, excitement that it does manage to achieve with, I don't know, like the simplistic framing does make it really involving. Like I really love that sequence where the bugs basically set a trap for the army in that base, Which I love that set, by the way, and the location shooting really adds a lot to how kind of real everything feels and that you buy that they're in this kind of alien world. But that trap being that the bugs like basically suck, they suck the brain out of the military commanders to get intel on them. And yeah, set this trap so then they can get swarmed in order to get more information.

But the way it's delivered and you're finding out from the perspective of these characters finding like this this disgusting corpse with this like a hole in its head and it's vile and the man screaming that they find in that who's who's hiding and he's like, we're all there, we're all going to die. And it's like, I did watch this with somebody who hadn't seen the film before and I kept like laughing at moments. And they're like, why are you laughing? This is like fucking horrible. And yeah, it really is like it really is something innately scary about. it and the practical effects I think really sell it like that that brain bug scene is like it's got to be one of my favorite scenes as far as practical effects with the the way that appendage comes out of that gooey mouth and the swapping between the the prosthetic like in

the actor's head and then it going to like a puppet this with all the like goo sucked out and it's like so visceral and gross and affecting yeah it's amazing it's so good and then like moments right after that it's like triumphant music whenever like they go back into battle or like the most horrible disgusting shit people dying like his his mom and dad dying the entire you know his entire city up in flames but once he gets accepted back into the military he's like smiling again like five minutes later like yeah at least I get to fight that's what really matters that's the best part of all of this you know it was just fighting yeah yeah well a part of me like almost wanted there to be

more with the main character in terms of his own grief because it did really feel like kind of glussed over like it didn't really like I mean it motivated that's the point exactly exactly yeah I like that there isn't it's like an anti-arch yeah yeah

you know it is a choice yeah because I don't I don't know if the the way these characters are presented would really sell it because of like the over the top performances that like crazy dialogue they're saying yeah the machismo of it I don't know if it was trying to be genuinely emotionally emotionally sincere like that if it really would have worked in the same way.

Because it's like the violence really sells and the scale of it sells. But I don't know if the complexity of the characters is really what you're here for. Yeah. And the fact that they're so flat is the point. And like the whole love triangle is so bizarre because it's like we have our perfect hero chiseled jaw, like the perfect soldier. and it's like he has this this woman who's obsessed with him and wants to be with him, but he's in love with this other person. And it's, I don't know, I found that so bizarre.

And like, what are we, what is this leading up to? And even in that moment when they're, the teacher, who's now their commander is like, all right, you guys can have fun, have some beer, et cetera. And then I forget what is her name, the girl who likes the RICO? Hmm. Oh, the one that gets eviscerated, a dizzy, floor is, I'm saying. Okay.

Diz. Yeah, he calls a Diz. Diz. Okay, thank you. Yeah, yeah. And it's so funny because, you know, it is such a, like, example of, like, perfect militarism and, like, fascism of, like, there's nothing. He can't even have sex without permission from his commander being like, you should never

give up a good date, you know. And then he's like, okay. Yeah, you're right. Like, like, it's, he has to be the perfect soldier there. not even room there for like any passion or joy it's it's really that is his passion is being a good soldier yeah yeah that's reinforced by that funeral scene but also it's because he wants to be a civilian yeah i love that framing of like you can't vote unless you're in the in the war or whatever you can't have kids or do anything really citizen citizen that's yeah citizen that's right

yes citizen yeah yeah and you that coldness is kind of there in that funeral scene as well where the Diz character gets like torn to shreds and dies like right after that sex scene and he's just like, yeah, whatever. Like he doesn't really care that much. His heart was with the Carmen. Time to be a hero. Yeah, yeah. I know. And then like the end of the film where like Neil Patrick Harris and the two others are like, hey, we're all best friends, remember? Yeah, it's like Anna. Let's walk together into the sunset. And I love like, it doesn't even end on like, we defeated the aliens. It's just like, we caught one. Maybe we'll figure this out.

It's just so depressing. Yeah. And then the propaganda is like, they're going to win. Yeah. Also, I'm like, I'm wondering, so in the context of the movie, I'm now questioning how literal the psychic abilities are too. Do you think that's like propaganda? Because all he did was just the only, the only point in the movie where it's ever actually

used in any sense. is him just saying, it's afraid, which, I mean, like, you could infer by the way it's moving and reacting. Like, there's nothing. Neil Patrick Harris didn't give us any more information with his psychic abilities than we had before, right? So I'm wondering how intentional that is. It's like, is the whole psychic ability is just not even a real thing in that universe?

It is also up to interpretation, yeah, because the only other time it's really plays into the plot is when Rico's like, you told me where to go, didn't you? And he's like, that's classified. So why would you say either which way? So yeah, you're right. That's part of what is clever about it. Yeah. I thought it was kind of like a funny little joke about like Nazi occultism.

Like a lot of the Nazis and who had high power were like really into like occult shit and weird like psychic stuff. Yeah, he's like witch doctors and yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. I guess I forgot. It's been a while. I also love it from like a Just an aesthetic level Where it's like this weird like 90s future

It's like just on the border Where uh The like tech they're interacting with And these weird like They're using like these mini discs and stuff Which is like obviously fun now considering like It's really charming Yeah GameCube.

It's super charming I love these sets and everything It's like really elaborate And they make the most of that just absurd budget They were given But going back to the, I guess, the design of the creatures, as a kid, that's what really drew me in, whether the bugs have these like different sects to their society with the brain bugs, with these like tanks and these aerial forces and like all these different designs of them. And yeah, Phil Tippett did an amazing job with these designs and the ILM is in there and all these different production houses like coming together. at masters of

puppetry and I was reading about this technique that they use, the DID technology where the puppeteers were like using these models and mapping it into CG. So like the movements in the

CG models are kind of puppeteered by humans which kind of sells their performance quote unquote in the scene and just really sells and then the way it's edited together where you do have these huge prosthetics and amazing. There's some great behind the scenes videos of some of the bugs they built in real life and these complicated ways of putting humans in them. So it really sells like the violence of it and how big and scary they are.

And when it shows the close up of the bug's eye and all of this kind of stuff, it's really well achieved from that level. And it's like really complicated compositing they're doing with these big ships. And there's a particular scene where there's a ship that's broken apart. And it looks amazing. It really looks great. All this like combination of miniatures with the CGs. and yeah I guess some of it looks a little bit funky

like especially the big the big bugs they look a little bit like plastic here or whatever but I don't know man for the most part it fits in with like the drastic part tremors like just I love that intersection in the 90s of like they still had to be like really creative with it they couldn't use the CG totally as a crutch and still had the miniatures

yeah it was sensible and it holds up very well I think yeah yeah I think the the visual effects are in general pretty fantastic. Like it looks great for 1997. Well, people didn't trust CGI yet. They were just like trusting it completely to sell everything. So they have that mixture, I guess. Yeah.

Yeah. The only parts where I feel like I would rather them have taken a different approach is like some of the space shots. Because, you know, sometimes I'm comparing to things like, I don't know, 2001 of Space Odyssey or, you know. there's so many movies that did that in a more practical sense and it looks better for some of the space effects. But in terms of the bugs, they knew what they were doing.

This was only like a couple of years after the first toy story. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, yeah. Utilizing like the proper blending with environments and lighting. And also really fitting. choices like in one of the propaganda videos when the cow comes down, that big

censored bar? Yeah, yeah, a couple of times. Yeah, that works well comedically, but it also works well practically because to show it eviscerating a cow instead of just having you imagine it, that would be way too complex for 1997

computer animation. So it serves more than one purpose. It's both comedic and practical. I like that. They were very clever about they approached it. Yeah. They do a good job with the implied carnage as well.

There are quite a few scenes where the characters come across like a battlefield or you're shown as a really good gag early on with the movie in the movie with the like Mormons that like went somewhere they weren't supposed to and that you just see like the

the ravaged like sight there were at and there's all these like just torn apart bodies and like the dead bug like remains and it's yeah it really sells like the conflict. No, there are other like technical things.

Fort Joe Smith. Yeah, I was reading about the motion control shots they did to achieve some of the visual effects. Like the Michael Ion's side is missing his arm in one of the shots earlier on when he's still a teacher. And that was achieved through a computer controlled camera and overlaying it. And similarly for when Rico is in the tank after he's been attacked and he's got that big injury on his leg. That's how they achieved the look of it. It looks so great that stuff. Yeah.

So it's seamless. Also, I do like how every single one, one of the teachers and authority figures is disfigured from the war. Yeah, they were missing limbs and, yeah. Environmental storytelling. Hell yeah. We got Hank. We got Dean Norris.

Yeah, the cause is crazy. Mr. Crabs. True, Mr. Crabs. Mr. Crabs is like framed as the true hero towards the end. He's like the one that gets the credit for capturing the brain bug. I love that weird, like subversion towards the end where it's like someone else who gets like the win of the movie really it's like oh it's this kind of side character from earlier who we haven't seen in ages and here is again he gets the win yeah yeah

there's some really I don't know the combination of some of these different visual effects there's a really impressive shot my tracking shot of a in the Clintathu drop where it's like a big visual effect coming in but it winds up seamlessly integrating the actual actors like coming out of the drop ship and it's like wow and that the confidence of like that They don't hide the effects under like darkness or that drop is in darkness, but it's still lit by the moon and like a lot of the film is in the desert, um, in like broad daylight. And it still looks great.

And I guess the fact that it is shockingly. Yeah. The fact that it is like bugs and the textures you can kind of achieve, especially with CG around this time. Um, I don't know. It's just a good way of selling it. It's convincing. It's colorful.

And that's one of the things. It's like, it's just so like over the top. And whenever the CG does look not that convincing to me, the tone of it just does help sell it for me. Like the goofiness of throwing the grenade in the big bug's mouth and it like is loom and then like explodes and stuff. It's, I don't know, the tone sells anything that's like super goofy for me. Yeah. A lot of wet, colored wet blood. Yeah, yeah.

I have a question for you guys because I know like so many people really don't believe this is a satirical film or, choose not to read it that way. And I guess there are like some movies, like I think the Wolf of Wall Street might be one where a lot of people kind of see it as uncritical of its subject when it's trying to be very satirical. But there's a lot of people who don't read it that way. So does it make a, is a satire successful if a huge bunch of people don't get it? Or does that make it even more biting and true?

I mean, I think this is something I struggle. in question in general. Like, okay, if a lot of people can watch this movie and read the opposite message, is it really, is it doing what it's supposed to, I guess? I don't know if that's, I mean, like, people watch Stephen Colbert and didn't realize he was being critical of, like, conservatives, right? You know, people, people wondered why Borat, too suddenly got political, right? I still consider

I still consider things to be like great satires and commentaries even if it goes over a lot of people's heads. It doesn't really matter to me. Yeah, all of the best satire I can think of your American psychos, a lot of people like love Cartman from South Park in a way that's just like, oh, you, I guess you really don't get this, huh? And I mention the boys as well. It's like, I don't know. This term media literacy has I don't know Some people like hate using it and say it's like not a valid thing to bring up

But I don't know I don't know how you can get past that with any If you're gonna have any level of subtleties Certain sex of people are gonna miss it And I also feel like you do need some level of subtlety To sell satire So yeah I don't know I was thinking about that in terms of like

If this came out now would people call it like woke You know I don't know. Yeah, like, I was thinking about that scene with the, where Mr. Crabs like breaks that dude's arm and then the, I'm blanking on her name. Now the Diz character comes in and kicks his ass. Like,

I guess just picturing like the culture warriors like saying it. This film's like. But I guess, yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't know, because I think it still works well enough on a surface level. Like, everybody loved everything everywhere all at once,

because it was just like a fun movie and there were, you know, like different timelines and Matrix fight scenes and stuff. Like you can still enjoy something. And I would say even if people want to connect to certain characters, right? Like I think that they, in order to do commentary in a way that feels like it's making a genuine commentary, a lot of the time, it would have to be pretty accurate, right? like it would it would have to be pretty one to one in a lot of ways because you don't want it to be too obvious and you don't want it to be too uh exaggerated that it's no longer a commentary and more like a straw man right so i think it's fine to yeah if people want to interpret it in a different way or even attach themselves on to characters like but but yeah it's it's is, I guess, a little different when it's like an outright ignoring of the artist's intentions, I guess.

But yeah. No, I think I agree with you guys. Like, how successful can a satire be if everyone gets it? Is it really a satire? You know, I think like the fact that this went over people's heads. I mean, it really shows that it's more eternal than just the time period it came out in. I do think that if it was made today, yeah, people would be having a different reaction because we've lived through 9-11 and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and all, you know, so much has transpired since then. And I think that it was the perfectly subversive movie for its time.

And it's really stood the test of time because it was, you know, went under the radar. It was so, like, strategic with what it was trying to do. And I think also like yeah like American Psycho's perfect example of that too. That's like I don't know how you can watch that and not see it as the funniest movie ever made. You know, but there are people who do. Yeah. Yeah. And similar for like Fight Club as well.

Yeah. All of these films get this certain audience that perhaps wasn't intended, but I don't know, does almost make the satire better in a way. Yeah. Yeah. But I've grappled with that kind of thing too. but apparently I think just a few days ago articles have started coming out that Sony's

working on a Starship Troopers remake so we can see it in real time and I feel like it might be one of those Lightning Rock movies yeah so we'll see how that goes that's the discourse will be oh my God

yeah yeah Rat Row I don't trust Sony that's what's crazy is that they like gave a hundred million dollars to this weird dude to make this crazy film. I'm so happy they did.

Yeah, it is a classic. And yeah, I don't, yeah, it doesn't bother me if people want to watch it and get whatever emotions they want out of it. It's just, yeah, I feel like it can be enjoyed in multiple ways and if more people enjoy it,

then great. Yeah, I'm with you there. I feel like my experience is a combination of both. Yeah, I think that's what that was my experience too because it's like I came in knowing that it's like a propaganda film as if made by the society that the movie's about, you know, it's like in-world propaganda almost. So I was ready for that. And the fact that it was so entertaining and thrilling and I was rooting for the characters

and everything made me feel really gross. So it was like Yeah, it was just An amazing experience But yeah, I don't know I just felt so awful after watching this In a good way Good

Oh yeah, one more thing I went to mention I like I love all of their Little justifications for why they signed up For the war in the shower scene Yeah, yeah They're like I want to be able to have a base baby and it's easier to get a baby license if you enlist and they're all just like yeah this is

normal yeah the most disturbing shit is just glossed over like wait hold on saying like like the speech from the teacher in the beginning like violence is the only way to assert power that violence is the best thing you know like the ultimate authority talking about Hiroshima and yeah and it's like you kind of like are like whoa whoa too much is happening right now. that again because then it's like the flirting between the characters and it's like a regular high school scene where usually you're just kind of like ignoring what the teacher's saying because you're focused on the characters but in this scene I was like what what hold on what's going on yeah yeah there's loads of lines like that just feeding into what you're saying

with some of the lines that are just like wait hold it when you think about that for more than two seconds something given has no value yeah the failure of democracy on doing my part the federation will give me everything i need yeah all this kind of stuff Yeah, it's fun dystopian Yeah, yeah Funstopian Ooh, funtopian Ooh, funtopia

Zootopia Ooh, Sequel's coming out Yeah, I like this movie a lot I will watch it again Someday as well It looked great in 4K Yeah, I did

Which half did you say? Did you think was better? I think I enjoy the first half better. It does, you know, I love the action sequences. Don't get me wrong. I love them conceptually and visually. But it does kind of get repetitive in the second half. It is a lot of just like carnage, carnage, carnage.

Whereas I felt like the first half was like a little more varied. And I kind of liked the universe exploration a bit more almost like, I don't know. It's closer to like Brazil or something where I'm like, ooh, this fun society. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like the whole thing flew by for me despite that two hour, nine minute runtime and getting these little payoffs throughout it with like the dissection scene earlier in the movie with that really fun little model that they're like tearing apart like frogs. And that character's like kind of vomit.

And then later on there's little little bugs come back and explain how the brain bug like gets around. like just little stuff like that and I felt like the variety of the locations that all of the different action scenes were taking place in and just the over the top gore and kind of innate fear of like being there with those characters like kept it interesting for me once it gets to the kind of action maelstrom towards the end is but I just love that brain bug stuff so much um the yeah I enjoy both both halves or every act as much as the last I just love it as a whole good wreck what would you give it out of ten

this would be a very strong four star eight out of ten for me yeah I love it Jake I would go nine I would go nine out of ten

on first watching yeah big fan I think I'm going to bump mine up from a seven to a low eight was great. Yeah, it makes me want to visit some of his other films

that I haven't seen in a while of this similar kind of pulpy over the dark nature. I haven't seen like Total Recall or Robocop in a long time, but I know there's like a heaps of commentary in both of them, especially of Robocop and similar level of violence. I have never seen Robocop, shockingly. Really? Yeah. Huh.

Yeah. I remember liking it and also watching it too young. I haven't seen it either, actually. What the frame? Oh, okay You should read less books I know, I'm missing out I need to be watching all these movies

What the fuck? No Neil Breen, no hundreds of beavers No rober crap Mm-hmm Wow I've only seen the Sam Jackson Robocop The real version

No, the real Robocop I didn't even remember that they did that Nobody does No one does that's funny all right question time right

let's do some questions from the sad on a car's community head over to the suggestion thread over on the subreddit if you want to leave questions for future episodes just like I'm sorry in advance

this one from moist mucus four would you rather every day for a year an old man drinks milk out of your belly button or every day for a month you have to drink milk

out of a smelly old man's belly button people really wanted this one answered for some reason first one yeah I would rather have it be drunk out of my belly button because at least I know where I've been I don't know where that old man has been yeah oh man I'm going with the second one I can't I can't handle that for a year really you want you want to go to that smelly old man and bring out of his belly button for a month look all right I'm thinking as a as someone with a almost three-month-old baby. I'm thinking of scheduling, like a whole year trying to coordinate with this guy.

Like, okay, we got to do the milk thing. All right, let's just do one month, get it over with. Is it knocking on your door where you're trying to change diapers? Yeah. Well, that's my milk. Yeah. Dude. Well, I hope you're happy in moist mucus. Um, that's a very garrous kind of question, but, uh, let's do this one from Dab Sloth, 710. Did you win a lot of, there's one of us. There's one question for each of us in this. Did you win a lot of money at the Oscars, Adam? Question mark. You know, I did win money. It was less than I thought because for some reason I remembered it as if I

bet on flow to win, but I didn't. Oh, you didn't. I thought you did. Even though it wasn't the favorite. But no, I didn't, I didn't bet. I thought I did too. I remembered wrong. But I made like 150 bucks total um oh yeah thanks to uh I'm still here oh sweet

yeah I might try doing that next year it seems kind of fun yeah everything's gambling now you can't do anything without gambling I'm not that much of a gambler but the question for me was how is your

gonstre Alex um do you know about this gonster shit joke I have no idea what you're introduce it's so it's this weird drink that Adam is found somehow

where you can yeah where you combine a Guinness with a monster energy drink you're supposed to use what is it monster nitro which we don't have yeah but I knew I needed some caffeine

to stay up for that Oscar stream so I was like you know what I like Guinness I'm fine with Monster I guess I didn't really drink it but uh definitely caffeine And yeah, I drank it on the stream and I only I only had one and then switched to Guinness after. But it was weirdly, okay? It was actually kind of yummy.

Yeah, it's pretty good. It's just like a lot of caffeine. Yeah, definitely like buzzed. I gave me a nice buzz. Like a nice combination of a upper and a downer in the same drink, I guess. Yeah. Levels you up. Join the Gunster subreddit.

Oh, my God. I don't know if I like it at that level. I'm intrigued. I mean, I think Nadia's going to be thrilled when I tell her my new plan for staying up late, you know. I'm kind of over coffee, you know, gomster all the way. Sounds like a good choice for my health and for my family. Especially for your heart. Your heart loves gonsters.

Gonsters every day. Gonster for breakfast. Yeah. Wait, is that the slogan? The official slogan for gomster is just every. Every day. It is now. Okay.

Yeah, maybe it's a special treat, not a daily coffee replacement. But the third part of the question was for you, Jake. How many times since becoming a father have you abandoned your child to see a movie? Are you sick of this question yet? You know, I brought it on myself, you know. That's the, you know, it can't be more than 10 times. I mean, I don't know. I only go to see movies will review for the channel.

And trust me, he would want me to do that, you know, got to keep grinding. So, yeah, I mean, however many times it takes, that's my answer. Cool. The Backwards Man has something curious. Now that there's a new third member, would you ever consider recommending a movie that has already been discussed on the podcast? to see what Jake's thoughts are and if your own thoughts have changed and what would happen if Jake recommended a film without realizing it has been recommended before execution yeah my gut kind of tells me that like there are enough movies out there that we haven't seen or talked about

yeah that it almost feels like a waste of an episode to redo it again unless perhaps it was something Jake felt really passionate about like the Madagascar trilogy oh yeah don't tempt me I would totally do that again. I should not have said that because now there's going to be some insane people being like, oh, you got to actually do it. No, we don't. I don't know if I could put Adam through that again. But I would totally do that.

You're so nice. Thank you. You're so considerate. Well, Jake doesn't have to accidentally recommend something that we've already done because there's this nifty little feature called a search bar. where before a recommendation, you can just type the word Sardonicast, and then whatever movie you're thinking of doing. And then you'll know.

So it would never be an accident. That sounds like a lot of work. Sometimes I think we've reviewed things on the podcast. You know, I'm like, did we talk about this one? And I'll have to like search it up. Yeah, like we'd forgotten a bit that we had actually reviewed Smile 1. That actually was in an episode. Yeah.

I only know like what we've done because there's a really handy, like, letterboxed account that, like, has all the reviews and stuff on it. So I can be like, oh, right, cool. I can remember five years ago we talked about the Cloverfield paradox or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Let's do this one from Jake Y man. Have any of you checked out common side effects from the creator of scavengers rain? Also, I highly recommend the show Pamelaire. Anthion based on short stories by Ken Louis. There's almost no promotion was stuck on AMC Plus for a while, taken offline, re-released on Prime, exclusively in New Zealand and Australia. And now it's finally on Netflix. It's a great anime.

A sci-fi show with a pretty good cast. Love the pod. Thanks Adam Alex and fellow Jake. I'd looked at common side effects on IMDB and thought it looked kind of interesting in these weird, like, baby characters. But seeing that it's from the creator of scavengers. rain like it's kind of got me quite intrigued because that's an underrated show I'm like mentioning whenever I can um just one of a interesting weird adult 2D animation that isn't like family guy or whatever I like uh bringing it up so I'd be curious to check this out by my way for it to be over

yeah it is on my watch list I just I just seems to be such like a maelstrom of just content that's just comes and goes and like so hard to keep it. track of like these random projects that just like a drop. Stay on top of. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, maybe I'll bump that up. Did you see any or hear anything of Scavengers Range?

Do you care about the, I know Adam and I often bond over all over these weird 2D Miles Express type movies, uh, animated movies. Um, yeah, I haven't heard of it. I haven't heard of any of this. It's all alien. No one has. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Sorry. I wish I did. But I will, uh, look into it. Absolutely. No, so you have like the, I guess the general perspective on it. I just, I think we're the freaks that like it disproportionately. You said it.

Freaks. Grogleck has a kind of interesting one. Does some of the cinema rules of conduct apply to home viewing? When you watch a movie with someone, do you get annoyed if they're on their phone? I sure do. I keep asking my wife to put her phone away while we watch films. Often I take a diplomatic approach Like using a hoodie to block my view of her phone

But other times I resort to passive aggressive measures Like pausing the movie until she puts her phone away She insists I'm giving her a hard time about it Who's the villain in this situation? Yeah, it's time to break up, I'm afraid That's not acceptable Depends on the movie Depends on the person I guess

Depends on the egregiousness of it Someone's like checking the time or just like on the phone for like 10 seconds or something, then it's not like a big deal. But if it's like they're not even watching the movie, it's like, okay, why am I showing you a movie? But that doesn't really happen. Generally I pick movies that I think a person will enjoy.

And, you know, generally it works out. Yeah, it's the context for me. If I bring up a movie like, I want to show you this movie. And then they're doing that throughout the movie. I'd feel like, oh, so you hate it then, huh? You don't care about this. But if it's like, I don't know, just putting on Venom 2 to make fun of it, but I'm not going to give a shit.

If it's, if they do that when I show them beast games, I'm going to be very upset. Yeah, it got to be locked in for that. Allspinders on. I finished it. I finished it last night. Does it get any better? No. Does it get any worse?

I mean, like, it's, some parts get better and some parts get worse, I guess, but just the overall experience is very, uh, irritating. It, yeah, it was a challenge. Man, that's shocking. I had no idea. Wow. I'd completely forgotten about it, to be honest. Yeah. I'm sorry to hear you had a bad time with that. Yeah, well, I mean, I think, I think like, in terms of the content, like watching stuff, yeah, like, if you're watching Beast games, I mean, it depends on the situation. And like, if I'm like, hey, I want you to see this movie because it matters to me. And Nadia is like, she's like, okay, all right, I get it. I'm going to sit and watch it. And vice versa. But most of the time, if we're just watching something and it's like, if we check our phones occasionally, it's not a big deal. I don't know.

I used to be really, really, like, anal about that kind of thing, but I have since learned that it is annoying to be that person. How do you feel about having, like, conversations or, like, talking to somebody, even as about, like, the movie that's like, oh, I really like that moment, or do you think it should be saved until after? Depends how glued in I am. There's some movies, I think, that it's, like, perfect. acceptable to to watch socially and like be kind of chatty over. I think there's plenty of movies that fit that category. But if I'm watching like a fucking, if it's something I've never seen before and I'm like really excited and into it,

I'm, I'll make it clear that I don't want talking at all. Yeah. You know, like a new fucking Hanukkah film or something. I feel like I'm more open to chatting during. during a movie, at least with Nadia, if it's a new movie, if neither of us have seen it, then we'll like common be like, oh, wow, I had no idea that was going to happen or whatever. But if it's something I've seen before and she hasn't,

I'm like, I know exactly how you're supposed to feel at each moment. And if you aren't locked in, you're going to miss it. You know, so that's just a different thing. Oh, yeah. Let's do this one from cilantro. Favorite dinosaur. That's it. Favorite diner.

I'm gonna go Archaeopteryx. What the fuck is that? I like dinosaurs of law. What is it? How do you even spell it? Oh man. I'm a terrible speller. I can say,

A-R-C-H-A-E-O-P-T-R-Y-X. Yeah. Yeah, that was a fire one. There's a really well-preserved version of it, which is quite famous. I love it for that. I'm also a big fan of iguanadon. be part of the bone wars that one

cause of good law there I think my favorite dinosaur is Mitch McConnell Ooh Got him Got him Nice Nice I'd like to see him recover from that one

He might not He might not He's very old That might be what takes an out Yeah Yeah I don't know Velociraptor

Damn you stole my But like the Spielberg kind. Yeah. I don't know how I would feel with if it had feathers. Oh, so the inaccurate kind. Wow. I actually don't know. Yeah, maybe I'd have to think about it.

Yeah. Now all these woke raptors. Yeah. These woke raptors with all their feathers and they're like birds. Like, uh-uh, not my raptor. Never forget what they took from us. No. Scaly's.

Dude. Have you seen like the trailer for the new, new, new one? the Gareth Edwards one. Oh, yeah. Wait, that's a Gareth Edwards film? Yeah. Jurassic World? Scarjo.

Yeah? That's like maybe the worst trailer I've seen in years. It was very, uh, it's right behind me, isn't it? Energy. Yeah. Yeah, with that writing. And like the, I guess the new hook is like mutant. Actually, there's not even a new one.

They've done that. Yeah. It's like a mutant monster. hybrid dino thing, I guess, which they did do that with that horror director. Bro, these dynos, they were like, they're in the lore of the first movie, but they were like too epic to show you. These are like way more epic because you like the first movie. And so they were around kind of, but they're like a mutant version. They were too epic to show. They're even crazier. They're even way crazier than the dinoes in the first movie, bro.

Is there an example of a franchise that has worse sequels with the best, like, original film as Jurassic Park? I mean, it's like the biggest drop-off in terms of sequels. Like, is there anything worse than Jurassic Park and its sequels? Starship troopers? Star Trekers, yes. Okay. I don't know. American Psycho.

They didn't make any money, though, where, like, all the Jurassic Park seems to make, like, more and more. Oh yeah Billion dollars every movie That's crazy I just I I'm curious to see how this does financially Because I don't think it doesn't even feel like Scarjo's trying Doesn't matter though I don't think it does Like it just has global appeal just by having CG dinosaurs in it

Just like maybe that's all in literally all in it Yeah Like that's just straight up it We'll see if it works financially Let's do this one from a aka Benzoo. What are some movies that you think are sexy? Interesting question.

The Lion King 1994. Oh, some scenes, yeah. Venom Some of the later Twilight movies are kind of sexy They're like funny for you I don't know It's just like a life

I'm serious right I get it Like watching those movies I was like These are bad movies but uh Kind of get it All these like twinkling Robert Patzisans and like I don't know It's funny

Especially that last one I'm going to say the last Twilight movie, the one with the awesome twist. Hmm. That twist sucked. Okay. Oh, it's so good. Hmm. I am not aware of this twist.

I haven't seen those movies. Oh, it sucks. Challenges is a good one. Yeah, Challenges are a sexy movie. Mm-hmm. I'm going to be classy here, and I'm going to say, bringing up baby. I feel like that's like a, something that's very sexy about that. like that dynamic there with Catherine Hepburn and Carrie Grant.

Yeah, I've never seen it. Oh, man, it's one of my favorites ever. It's a screwball comedy, but... That's an interesting poster. Bringing a baby, oh my God, it's like Howard Hawks fantastic, but I don't know. I just love Catherine Hepburn. It's very much like the crazy, crazy, like,

annoying you to death type of dynamic, but I feel like it works. I like it. Why are they feeding a leopard cereal on the poster? Because they do that in the movie. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's, oh my God, I might recommend this soon. Yeah, that sounds funny.

Yeah, it is. Sounds like a sexy movie. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, I don't know. Zootopia. Should I just keep? naming

what do we want here what are we trying to get out of this conversation I don't know I feel that's a lot of sexy options for the for a listener slash viewer quite the range of options there yeah about this one from puppet one

how much do you believe in the idea of Trojan horsing deeper artistic intention inside of established IP for example, the series and or uses the Star War, I'm sorry Adam, IP to leverage the budget and scope, to tell an amazing story of fascism, revolution, and class dynamics. However, I can't think of many other examples of this being done successfully. So is it an unrealistic ideal or should it be the norm we aim for? So do you think the new drastic part is going to have a really clever, a Trojan hoarse commentary buried deep within it? You can do it with Star Wars because Star Wars isn't even a fucking IP anymore. It's a, fucking genre. It's like, oh, I'm going to make a zombie movie is basically what you're doing when you say you're going to make a Star Wars movie. Like anybody can make any fucking Star Wars movie.

It doesn't matter. I guess. Where are you out with Star Wars, Jake? I don't actually know. Oh, yeah. I mean, I like... Do you give a shits about it? Yeah, I did. You know, I was into like the sequels of, you know, episode seven, episode. I liked the last Jedi. I liked it. And then I saw the final one. What is it? Rise of Skywalker. And that was the last movie I saw. in theaters before COVID. And I honestly thought I would never see another movie again and it made me so depressed. That movie was the, I was like baffled. I was like, there's no fucking way this is real.

And I have not watched a single Star Wars piece of content ever since. Really well. I'm not going to watch Andor. I'm sorry. I don't, I, it's just I have a sickness in my heart now. It really messed me up. That's totally fair. Yeah, sorry and or fans.

Andor is fire. Andor is fire. Yeah, using an existing IP to make it something more interesting. I don't know. Could we say that about the Lego movie? Yeah. Could we say that about Shakespeare? I mean, I feel like that's like the history of a lot of art, you know, just like

Shakespeare made a lot of commercial crap that wasn't really considered great, but he, like, put his own spin on it and whatever, and he's Shakespeare. I mean, I think, I don't think Ryan Johnson is the equivalent of that, but I think there are ways for people to, I mean, that's like any commercial like art. Like that's just throughout history. Of course, that happens all the time, yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. But I think like something like the Lego movie stands out because it's like the most product movie possible.

But it actually did. It was able to hide some substance within there. but it was also kind of like a rarity for these big IP movies like yeah I don't know they're normally scared to like I haven't seen the new like Captain America for example why not great but I feel like man we're in such a volatile political time like that was that would be the chance to surely like try and if you cared about like artistry I guess like put some kind of message in there or some kind of commentary to describe what we're going through right now or what's happening but it seems too risky, too scary.

Red Hulk heal the world. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It doesn't need to be a Trojan horse. It just needs to be, hey, is there an artist that has a vision and this is what they'd like to make? And that's why it works is because they have a vision, then great. Yeah.

If they want to take an IP and do something more with it because they feel like it actually works, then great. Otherwise, you know, the goal shouldn't necessarily be like, how do we shift culture? if it's cynical, right? Like, if it's an artist, then yeah. Yeah. Should we do two more here? I've got a couple of good ones.

We can kind of wind down here. Let's do the penultimate one then from G.H. Rocker. Tips on finding time in your life for your passions. About to be a dad, freelancing full-time as a video editor to pay the mortgage, but want to keep working on my passion or creating feature-length theme park reviews, but times a resource I don't have. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Break up with the baby.

Yeah, a bit late. Um, um, I mean, I feel like I should, I should talk about this, right? Yeah, I do it.

I think, um, it's, it's hard, but like, I was more stressed about it, honestly, before the baby arrived,

because I didn't know. I was like, I don't know how much time I'm going to have to do all this other stuff I like to do. You know, like I can get my work done, but there's so much other stuff I want to do and pursuing. So it's like, can I do it? That was the biggest anxiety of am I even going to be able to do it? But like now that he's here, like you get into a rhythm and he's just part of my life. And so you just, you find the time. I don't know.

And I feel like I have more energy now than I ever did simply because I have to have it. That's not as good job. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like don't be despairing about it. I think that it's it is possible. Yeah, tip one, don't be a single parent. And then if you really want to go extra, get a third person in as a thruple. And then you have even more time. Yeah, get help, you know, family, whatever. Yeah. Just, I don't know, like a third relationship person. You don't need a thruple. There's other ways to get help. Why not?

Do a thruple. You can do that, I guess. I don't know. But if there's three people raising a baby, it'll be even more raised. More raised. Yeah. So true. It'll be raised times three.

Yeah. They'll grow up so quick. Do whatever Brady is doing with the composer. and his wife. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like the old do you get, your relationship with time changes.

There's some kind of study done that like the way your brain perceives time, the more of it you've experienced. Like it feels quicker. I've definitely realized that about myself. Like the time management seems to become more and more of an important resource. The older you get and, you know, is as valuable as any of. other currency that we do within our lives. But man, I'm so like scatterbrain.

I feel like I need just as much advice for the balance as well. There's G.H. Rocker here, so. This is such a existential question. I know. Senectecky, New York. Yeah. Fun. We're all herdling towards death.

Oh, yeah. That's an uplifting penultimate one. Yeah. Let's go. Yeah, I'm sick. Do you have any time management tips, Anna? Not right now.

I've been dealing with a fucking chronic illness and I've just had to put everything on the side burner. I've really wanted to get back into my like large passion project things and it seems like that's going to have to wait because I'm unable to. It's like I don't I don't have any time management

advice at the moment and I'm in a very weird transitionary, hopefully temporary. part of my life that it's just everything's difficult. Yeah, I hear that. Right. I send on this one then from Bong Sucker. When rating something, how much weight do you put into external considerations such as the time a thing was made, budget limitations,

historical impact, technological innovations, etc. I find myself rating based on my experience exclusively regardless of cultural merit or impact something have for its time. But given the discrepancy between things like letterboxes, top 250 average and the top 250 favorites list, I think I might be in a minority and I'm curious where you all fall on the spectrum. Do you consciously consider these things when giving a rating? Is it more intuitive, case by case? Do these elements maybe influence your experience itself in some way? Would love to hear your thoughts. Adam? Yes. Well, I mean, I do consider those things, but at the end of the day, Like, if an effect looks bad because it's dated, that's not going to make me more convinced of the effect and of itself, right?

So if, like, in the context of the movie, there's something that takes me out of it because it's dated, even though it was perfectly normal and acceptable for the time, maybe even impressive for the time, that's something to consider. But at the end of the day, I'm still in a moment where I'm like, oh, yeah, this is a movie and I'm not convinced by it, right? So it depends on how much leeway you want to give it. It depends how you're watching the film in terms of like, you know, there's some movies where I'm watching the film the entire time I'm conscious of the fact that it's a movie. And it's just kind of like a fun, interesting like, oh, look at what this weird brained person made, right? Versus other films where, you know, I'm supposed to be glued into the narrative and not be thinking about the fact that it's a movie. It really depends on the film, but yeah, there are things to consider just not, it doesn't, it doesn't replace experience. There are things that you can add to your overall outlook of the film, right?

Yeah, it makes me think of that. It's like a meme with the boss baby, where it's like, dude who's only seen the boss baby. And it's like, really feeling boss baby vibes from this. Yeah. Whereas I know what you're doing. The context is like quite important, I feel. Yeah. To the conversation, but it's also a balance of the intent of the artist.

And then that becomes more subjective because it's like, what is their intent? Like how much evidence can you even find to support or have they even spoken about their intent in any way? And then there's other pillars to think about like your own enjoyment. Like did you get any emotional experience out of it? Did you? I'm thinking about like we haven't spoken about it in much detail. but Nosferatu recently, which is like, and something I find happening with a lot of films

where I end up maybe appreciating them more than actually liking or enjoying them, considering like a context, but then the context can also take something away from me where I'm just thinking while watching the newest Nosferatu, like, I kind of prefer the 70s version. I kind of wish I was watching the Klaus Kinski one right now. And yeah, that's like part of the context for me.

And that does completely feed into it, all of these different, like, levels. So yeah, that's kind of how I'm often weighing it up is trying to take as much of the story through these lenses of a context and intent and then balancing that against my own enjoyment. Yeah, like there's plenty of films where like a dated aspect can add to the character of the film and be a make it the experience more fun or interesting even. Yeah, give it personality. Yeah, I mean, I agree somewhat with that. I mean, I think for me, like, what helps me enjoy older movies and older books or whatever is to kind of erase the concept of progress of things are progressing in a linear way of

things are getting better over time, you know, effects, et cetera. It's like to try not to think of it in that way and think of it instead as like things were just different, you know, like the rear view projection in certain scenes in older movies, like when they're driving, can, yeah, pull you out of a movie a little bit. bit, but if you watch 100 movies from 1950, you're going to be seeing things differently and have a different perspective and be able to properly weigh and view the art. So I guess like with more experience, like the more older movies you watch, the more these things are not as distracting.

And I feel like a lot of people will complain about like acting in movies, you know, before, you know, 1970 or whatever. And it's like, yeah, it's big. it's expressionistic. It's not super realistic, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It's just a different style. And there's also fantastic acting from that era. It's just different.

And I think that's a good thing. And that's the best way to try to appreciate it. At least that's how I try to do it. Yeah. I mean, you can view anything within like the context of the universe of the film that it's showing, right? Like there's going to be different ways that characters. communicate with each other in like a David Lynch film, right, versus a lot of other more

standard narratives. So yeah, I mean, I don't really find myself bothered by like rearview projection. I feel like if I get hung up on like a bad effect or like something that's unconvincing in an older film, sometimes I even consider. like, okay, within the timeline, could you have made a consideration that's different, right? So there's plenty of films in 1997 that used a lot of CG but just didn't do it in as clever or as reserved of a way as something like Jurassic Park or, you know, we could even say Starship Troopers, even though that wasn't reserved, they still had a really solid plan going into it, right? And so even if I were to imagine at the time, like, okay, 1997, this effect probably

didn't seem out of the ordinary. It can still, it can still look bad to me, right? And it can still feel like, okay, maybe you should have anticipated how this would blend in terms of like, uh, CG versus live action, right? Or like all these films, especially like the early 2000s, You know, you were talking about that sweet spot in the 90s where it seemed necessary to blend things with practical and be like, okay, well, how are we going to show this shot on the close shot? I think we should use a practical for like the appendage of the bug, right, rather than just seaguing the entire thing. And then we have like entire generations of films where a lot of people, you know, in theaters at the time, nobody saw anything wrong with it. But we can still look back at it retrospectively and be like, okay, they probably should have made some more. considerations for how this looked, you know?

So it depends on the film, I guess, but... Yeah, and the intent of what it's going for, because I feel like Nosferatu is actually a good example of this, because I don't feel like the 1922 version of that story is held back at all by its age. In fact, it almost helps it in a way. It makes it feel like this mythic kind of story that's always been around and kind of adds to the kind of atmosphere of it and stuff.

So, yeah, I feel like it's what it's trying to do and how distracting or not it might be. Yeah, I like that question. A range of questions out of those, yeah. Yeah. We did it. We did it. And I think it's my recommendation, correct?

Yeah. All right. Yeah. Well, there are plenty of things on my list, but I feel as though if I didn't pick something with Gene Hackman in it, that I would be unforgiven, 1992, to Clint Eastwood. I haven't seen it. Oh.

Hell yes. Oh my God. I'm so excited. Yes. I haven't seen an age as fuck you. Cool. Everybody seems to like it. I don't know why I haven't seen this one yet.

So. Unforgetting. Excited. We watch this. If you want to watch it and not get spoiled, watch it before the next episode's out. The episodes come out every two weeks. You can listen to them early.

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Shrek 5. Happy New Year. Oh, God, do we are getting Shrek 5. All right. Well, thanks for listening, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye. Bye.