Sardonicast - Sardonicast 187: Baby Invasion, Mickey 17, Nashville

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sardonicast.bsky.social Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Jake's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ManCarryingThing Jake's movie channel: https://www.youtube.com/@womancarryingman Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/yms.bsky.social Jake's twitter: https://x.com/ManCarrying Jake's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mancarryingthing.bsky.social Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Jake's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mancarryingthing Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Timestamps: 0:00 Baby Invasion 33:30 Mickey 17 1:14:18 Nashville 1:59:47 Questions 2:36:32 Recommendation + outro

Three, two, one. I ShowSpeed is the new Tarkovsky. That was a real quote from Harmony Karim. That was your real thoughts that you've had, your original thoughts. Those were my original thoughts, myself, me, Adam, from your movie sex. This is Sardonicast. I'm glad I was a bit worried you were going to take the intro I wanted to do, which was Saldonikas, starring Alex from I Hey, Everything.

Saldoncast and the exciting appearance of Jake from Man Carrying Thing. But let's not forget the wonderful Adam from your movie sucks. Saadonnacast. That's fun. Yeah, there you go. I like that. We need like 25 more people on the podcast to make that work. Yeah, yeah.

List every YouTuber. I'll say I'm, I'm Man Carrying Thing. I'm Jake. And I have a question for both of you. Yes. Does Christmas smell like oranges to you? Um, sometimes it's, smells like a chocolate orange. That's kind of fucked up. A Terry's chocolate orange. Do you have

those? Is that a Canadian thing or do you guys have those in the States? No, we have those. I thought it was a British thing. Okay. Cool. All right. They had good marketing 20 years ago where people will just throw in them at each other. Yeah, I associate it with a comedian Dawn French. That's why I associate chocolate oranges with. But I also answering a question, Jake, I didn't really thought about it, but that observation, I was kind of like, yeah, I kind of agree with that in the moment. I do associate it with oranges for whatever reason. Why? Some scent. I don't know. Like candles

often have that kind of scent and when you have those like balls of dried things. I don't know. That's just an association I have. I associate Christmas with lard and disappointment. I don't know. Who hurt you? Everybody. What did lard have to do with it?

People just, people eat fat and shit on Christmas you know. It's glorious. Beautiful. Trying to get as fat as possible. Like cooking in lard or like just a block of lard is. Curious what your Christmas meals look like now. Just gluttony in general.

Oh, man. I've been there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just a tub of lard on Christmas morning. All alone. Yeah, that's what I got as a gift every Christmas. That's why.

Because that's what the good boys got. Santa was a weirdo. If you're completely neutral, you get the lud. No, but oranges are a weird thing for Christmas. I think oranges, like, it just doesn't make any sense to me. And I think that's what's great about that moment. I think during Christmas is when Mandarin oranges are seasonal. Right?

That's when I see them in grocery stores. Really? I guess. Are Mandarin oranges big for you guys? I don't know. I don't really buy oranges, to be honest. I like oranges. I don't really buy them, if I'm being honest. No, you steal?

Not really a citrus I go for. Oh. We have a grapefruit going to go? Really? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like grapefruit, but... God, learning so much weird shit about you, too.

Yeah. Citrus facts. If you're a grapefruit eater, you got to make sure that doesn't interact with any of the medications you take, because grapefruit will fuck you up. Really? Yeah, it can negatively interact with medications. I didn't know that. Okay.

I thought that was just alcohol. You have to, like, you have to actually be careful about it. Yeah, grapefruit juice also. Great fruit in of itself. The more you know. Weird. Okay. So we thought it would be fun for Jake to watch baby invasion.

No, no. You thought it would be fun. I thought it would be fun. Alex and I thought it would be fun. Maybe you didn't. But today is April 1st anyway. So I'll just retroactively say, Ha, ha, April Fool's, I made you watch Baby Invasion,

even though that wasn't the original intent. Mm-hmm. Alex and I are already kind of like, we're already kind of suck in, consen cost fallacy into Harmony Corin's career. So like no matter what the fuck he does, we kind of have to see it. Because we were both fascinated by agro-doctor one-foot, crazy film. Very, it was the talk of Tiff. Unforgotable, yeah.

I wanted to see that. It sounded weird. Yeah. It was weird. It was weird. very polarizing very shitposty very funny who the hell knows what the hell

he wanted to do but it was fun kind of maybe debatably it's funny with quotes on it in a large crowd it was funny and enjoyable I don't know sitting down solo

it was funny at a film festival at midnight yeah yeah exactly but although to be fair I watched it in theaters a second time and I enjoyed it it more. I think I'm one of like two people on the planet that saw it in theaters twice because it was impossible to see in theaters too. I mean, from what I understand this new era of his is kind of like different than his previous stuff. Like I know he made like gummo and

Julian Donkey Boy and yeah. Like I don't really like what's his general vibe? I feel like I can't get a grasp or a handle on what he is. Exactly. So for those of you who don't know, Jake has never seen a Harmony Korean film before Baby Invasion. Yeah. Which I thought would be hilarious. To not have any context and start with baby invasion. Harmony Korean's always been a weirdo. He's always decided to make his own thing without any regard for like conventions or, you know,

he wants to make something that speaks to him. And it seems like the general. consensus is he's more or less gotten bored with movies as an art form and is just trying to find ways to get himself excited about movies again. So if you listen to him in interviews, he's pretending like his new movies aren't even movies. He's like, no, this is after movie. This is what comes after movies. Is Agro Doctor Onefoot? I'm like, it's still a movie. It's a very unconventional movie. You know, like, you could have said the same thing for trash humpers. That's a very conventional movie. You could have said in marketing. He has a movie called trash humpers. Yes,

trash humpers. It's great. I mean, oh, I should have started with that. It's great with quotes. Okay. He's he's a director that I love and I think I've only ever given one of his films higher than a six out of ten and even then I'm not sure. Like spring breakers is aged like a fine wine. And I think that I still have that as a six, but I might give it a seven someday. My favorite director that I could ever say that about, just because his films are so weird and unique and interesting. So, yeah. Do you read it as a boredom thing or more of like a, I don't know, it was almost getting like too popular. And it almost seems like, no, I'm not going to let this happen. Like, I'm just going to do this edge lord project. And I don't even know. I feel like a good

way to get this conversation going is the release section from the Wikipedia for Baby Invasion has just a crazy paragraph. Oh, hell yeah. Please read it. Baby Invasion premiered out of competition at the 81st Venice International Film Festival on August 31st, 2024. During the Venice press conference, Karin sat next to visual effects artist and fellow filmmaker Gasper No Way, who was wearing a neon green mask, smoke to cigar, causing smoke to fill the

conference room. He expressed that Hollywood would be smart to encourage the youth, the kids, why we're starting to see Hollywood crumble creatively is because they're losing a lot of the most creative minds to gaming and to streaming, going into that quote you started the episode with. They're so locked in on convention and then all those kids who are so creative and now just going to find other pathways and go to other places because movies are no longer the dominant art form. He also revealed that when we release the film, there will be a way to watch it through your phone, but there will be certain codes within the movie that would take you to other movies.

So the film that you're seeing is just a base layer film. There'll be three or four of the sub films, whatever the fuck that means. Yeah, people on his subreddit were asking about that and no one seems to have any real answers. I don't believe he does. So either he forgot or they changed the film since the premiere. I mean, they literally did. There's two cuts.

One of them has the voiceover from the Venice premiere and the other one has no voiceover. So I think if you rent it on Amazon or iTunes or whatever, then you get the quote pure version, which is no voiceover, and then the impure version, apparently, I don't know, some people in a subreddit say the impure's version. I watched Pure, but yeah, everyone's confused with the three or four other subfilms thing. Maybe that's something that's yet to come. Yeah. I don't know.

I think I saw Pure. Honestly, like, I only saw this like a week or two ago, and it's pretty much like just a blur of nonsense in my head. Do you remember any voiceover? No. Then you saw pure. I remember a chat. Like I was watching a Twitch scream.

Yeah. Yes. I think it was pure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, uh, like there were a couple of lines of like voices coming in occasionally, but there was no like voice over.

It was just. Yeah. The impure version has like a kind of like a almost mystifying like female voice, voice over. And apparently you learn more about the bunny. Oh yeah. I was wondering what that was. Oh, great.

That's what I wanted to know about. Yeah. The bunny. The AI bunny. I mean, there's AI throughout the film. This is, this is, I don't know if I've seen a film that I could more accurately describe as AI slop. Like out of every movie I've ever seen that's an actual movie and not just like a fake trailer on YouTube that those are demonetized now, I guess. but it's you know it's a director that I'm you know I'm I'm already in I'm already in his world

I got to keep up with him I got to see what he's doing yeah I guess it's trying to sort of be a parody of like a GTA online type situation with these characters the it's a game within a game dude and the line between what's a game and what's a simulation we have no idea man we're all the baby invaders when you really look about and think about it deep enough like kind of thing um except riding our brain Sounds like you loved it, Alex. I just kind of like, AgroGift, I was just like, what the fuck is this man? Like, you pissing up with this shit.

Like, the visuals. I couldn't imagine watching that in a crowd as well. Imagine watching Baby Invasion with like a TIF audience. You never know. It would be kind of funny. I still think AgroGIF was funnier, but this is probably like a better film. As far as like, I could kind of tell what it was saying. That's a tough one to, for me.

to say that's a tough for me to call this one a better film but the highs were higher the highs were higher and I agree in agro in agro okay yeah whereas this I could kind of get an idea it was going on but I was sort of sick of it after about 15 minutes oh man yeah yeah yeah I did the thing I actually genuinely did like about it was the music by burial which is just such a random like the music's great in both of those films yeah yeah yeah I remember it stronger here because I don't know I've been a fan of burial for a while. So just this combination is like, what?

I don't know. I tried looking for it on Spotify and it's not really listenable right now. Hopefully that comes out broader. But that was my favorite part of it. Well, you know what's funny? When they released AgroDrift, one of the, it was impossible to see in theaters outside of 10 cities like in the United States or whatever. I think it was less.

I think it was like five cities. before that, it's only released outside of film festivals was in a couple of L.A. strip clubs, they were playing it for a week, which I find to be hilarious. But watching the film, it's almost like, okay, yeah, this does feel like kind of a movie that you would play in a strip club. Not because, you know, it helps the business or anything, but because you're not, it doesn't really matter whether or not you're really fully paying attention to it. It's kind of just like noise in the background. It's like a visualizer. And if you have the music, the music's fun, right? Like, I like the music in both films, but it might as well just be, like, random shit that you put on in a business on the television to make people go, what's that?

Like, you could have it playing in a bar, you know? If I had a bar, I'd be playing. Yeah. Agro, Dr. One Foot. That's kind of how it feels to me, where it's more like, hey, look at me. It's like, this is only really made to be talked about and doesn't seem. And like, there's much, like, sincerity to really anything outside of that. Like, it's such a shitpost.

And that is the word for it is shitpost. It really is, like, the direction is, like, non-existent. Like, the acting is like, it just feels like they're making it up on the spot. And the way the, like, AI visual effects integrated are, like, garbage and look like shite. Yeah, he, like, barely ever leaves, like, his neighborhood anymore. Because he lives in Miami and both of these. Is it like you, you know, you're just looking at these like, okay, the palm trees, like the tropical kind of environment.

Like, you just like hanging out with your friends and sometimes you bring a camera and then throw AI over top of it and call it a movie. Yeah. That's exactly how it feels. That was one of my notes was I believe all these dudes just walk around doing this shit on a normal day anyway. Yeah. They just put like cameras in this stuff.

Yeah. That's just a little troublemaker. Yeah. I respect that he's doing this and getting away with it. I like that. Because you'd think with the entire conversation about, you know, how anti-AI the general public seems to be, you'd think that more people would be shaming him, but it seems like just most people don't even know that Harmony Korean is a person making movies at this point.

He's just like film heads on him. And the people that know his work well enough and, you know not to take it like so seriously, I guess just aren't really that upset, you know? Even though these people do exist, I feel like, where it's like, oh, the layers of irony are so deep that people might be thinking or coming up with the excuses almost like, yeah, it's like anti-art, he's doing it on purpose, he's using the AI as a statement type thing,

and it's all about technology going too far and we're in the slot realm now. And yeah. Yeah, I was almost kind of leaning in that direction, but it doesn't, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. Like, he could, he could be doing it sincerely with no sense of irony. But I think he, I think at the end of the day, he knows that he's making something that is shitposty and not like a real movie. Because he said himself that he's like, he doesn't, he's like not even making movies anymore.

But he's still producing things. So, I don't know. It's kind of funny that, that we're watching it, you know. I mean, yeah, it's not like it's a success or that people, and barely anyone has seen this film. It's got like a meta score. It's got like eight critic reviews. Oh, does it? Yeah.

So, yeah, I guess he is doing it for himself just to do something. Yeah, I don't know. It's a weird project. They're both probably making profit because it seems like he's spending no money on it. Yeah, it's just like making it in friends' houses or his own house or whatever it may be. Yeah, I thought, so both of these films, say, produced by Edge Lord, and for a while I thought, like, oh, Edge Lord's just some guy who'd buddyed up to him and wanted to use him to propagate his AI nonsense. But then it turns, I looked up what Edge Lord was, and it's like, oh, it's a collective, and it's just Harmony Corrine. And then, like, some other guys.

But, like, Harmony Carine is Edge Lord. Yeah, it's like a company's name, right? He's the Edge Lord. He's the edgiest Lord. So, yeah. Very interesting. Very weird. What was your favorite scene, Jake?

You know, I liked when the guy took a shit on the toilet and it was like flipping off the camera. Like, that was cool. I liked when the movie was like, are you guys getting this here? Let me put text up on the screen. This is not a movie. Yeah. This is not a game. This is real.

I forget what it is exactly. This is real life. This is now. I wrote down the quote, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is it? This is not a movie. This is a game. This is not a game. This is real life. This is not real life. There is no more real life. There is just now, the endless now. Okay. Okay. Cool. Cool. Yeah. And it's like, all right. Yeah, cool. This is great. I mean, I guess the endless now just feels like a Twitch stream that you stumbled on from someone who has like 12 views.

and doesn't really know how to stream yet. And it's kind of like, you know, the impulse to not watch the screen and do something else while I was watching this was so strong because it's like I see the Twitch chat and I'm like, you don't just sit and watch a Twitch stream. You do a bunch of other stuff while you're doing it. Yeah, I think the movie begs that of you. It does. It was like, oh my God, 20 minutes of these guys are just standing here.

We're just standing here in the house. we're not doing anything. It really tested my patience. Nice. Yeah. So that was my favorite scene. Oh, thank you for, you know, getting through it. Yeah, there might have been about five minutes of it that was kind of interesting to me, like,

sincerely. I was like, oh, that's kind of, I don't know, an interesting idea or when it was going into, at a certain point, it stops even being, like, shot in real life and goes into, like, a game world. which apparently is available on some website somewhere that you can download and mess around with and there's like a tunnel that they've built in some game engine with all these screens and it's like quite overstimulating and too much

but that's what it would do would be like, here, here's kind of a fun idea or whatever. Yeah, it's a commentary on how far we've gone with technology and now there's no distinction between any of it anymore and it's like look at the grotesque entertainment of these people turning this heist into a Twitch stream but then it's like the dumbest lowest budget like doesn't do anything with it just kind of lingers and just kind of fucks around and feels like yeah when you

first started making YouTube videos with your friends and just have no idea what fuck you'll do well there's there's like no real characters to latch on to at any point no or scenes even really and it's and it's so cheap like there's that part where they get to the safe and they go to drill into the safe and they don't even show like the drill drilling like it just like cut straight to the safe being open it's like cheap motherfucker like you're gonna do a ice do eyes do eyes yeah I just stumbled across a hilarious quote on the Wikipedia they're talking about the burial score of the score koreen said quote I never actually met burial and I never actually spoke with burial so it was all

done through Discord messages and we'd kind of talk on PS5 and then the music was sent through PS5. Sending the music through PS5, which is very similar of a quote because you remember you were at the Q&A with me and Tiff where he talked about the score for Agro Doctor Onefoot and he's like, yeah, they just text me songs and then I'd go, that's good. And then loop it. He was talking about how he got the songs through text, right? And like the composer never even saw the film, which is great, you know? So now, like, reading those quotes and seeing how similar they are, I'm almost back on

the conspiracy trait. I'm almost like, this is a statement, you know? This is, he's like, he's intentionally putting in the lowest effort possible and making these weird statements that he'd have to know, right, are, you know. insane things to say about something that you're producing and people are seeing. Is he trying to be funny? I don't know. It's like the intent is hard to read.

Because like that was burial's thing too is that he's like notoriously elusive. And like he hid a bunch of details about himself until it leaked or something. So that doesn't surprise me that it was all over discord or more. I kind of like that. That's kind of funny. But yeah, I probably made the music better because it wasn't like, I mean, what was there to even like score really? You know?

Yeah. What like emotional. range you like exploring. It's just a long music video. Basically yeah. I mean I was just trying to figure out like what was the tone like what was the angle here like like you're saying like is this ironic what kind of statement is he trying to make and it really feels like someone in their 50s looking and engaging with like younger people's culture and all this like new technology in being like whoa dude like this is this is the real shit like this is real. Like this is real This is cool.

This is like, it's grotesque. Some of it is off-putting, but it's also fun. And I really think he just sincerely likes this stuff. And it's like, isn't this cool and weird? And, like, that's kind of like when I was watching. Like, maybe there's some, obviously the commentary of like, yeah, these people are killing people. And that's not cool. But also, it doesn't make it fun either.

Like, and I think if you're trying to make something that's like a video game, you're kind of missing like why anyone would be playing the game or engaging with it or watching a Twitch stream. Like it didn't. I saw a lot of reviews that were like it's intentionally overstimulating and trying to like, you know, fuck with your brain and overwhelm you. And the whole time I was just going like, this is so, so boring and not enough. Like there's just nothing to latch on to. It feels like you've watched some Twitch streams. You've watched I Show Speed.

You've watched people play Minecraft on, you know, like I don't. And then you're like, wow. This is kind of like fucked up, like how people are like streaming their lives. And what I kept returning back to because I think their aesthetics are really similar. Are you guys familiar with Connor O'Malley? Yeah, I love him. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. I love Connor O'Malley. And his videos also use AI a lot of times. Not this much, but there are parts where he uses it. And I always feel like he's using it in like an artistically intentional way. that is very much commenting upon the use of it. And I think he is actually, you know, discussing and exploring the same themes and ideas and, like, subcultures that Harmony Corrine does in this movie. But with, like, a really incisive, like, angle and is being funny about it and very concise.

You know, so... More merit. Yeah. I was like, you know, there's a way to do this that. is really clever and funny and engaging and entertaining and dark and says something. And I feel like that's basically Connor O'Malley. I'm sure there's other people like exploring the same stuff. So I like that Harmony Corrine is like delving into this world,

but I think it's just a really shallow kind of take on it. Yeah, depending on how much we want to believe he is trying to make a statement or how much effort he is putting into making a statement if there is one. Yeah. Like do we yeah. Does he really believe that I show speed is the new Tarkovsky? Like that seems like such a crazy thing to say. It's provocative. Yeah. But then just the whole like idea of the title when the baby invasion with these like baby characters, you know that yeah juxtaposition of the baby face on the violent imagery and all of this like overstimulating nonsense. It's I know this almost would have been funny. to pair with adolescence from last episode, which is kind of getting at similar ideas of

like technology and what it does to young minds in the world we've like created for children to live in. But it's just in like the dumbest. It wasn't even that violent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing because it's like half-assed at its core.

It was just kind of, it told us that instead of showing it. Yeah. Yeah. It's like really lazy. And I don't know. He must have made this like in a few weeks, maybe. I don't know. Like if you're trying to shock us, shock us.

do something. I don't know. It's shocking that he released this, right? So in that, in that sense, he did good. I, yeah, I find it fascinating. I love watching artists, especially where I'm just kind of like confused, trying to figure out like what the hell they're doing. Like, what are you thinking?

I find that fun and it's one of my obsessions. You know, I perused through the edge lord website. I bought all the dumb like $2 packs of the assets. And it was just like, oh, wow, this is just like your generations that you prompted into some AI bullshit. And then some of them you used in the film and some of them you didn't. And a lot of it looks terrible. I think he enjoys as well that it like pisses people, like me off as well. Yeah.

Like no doubt. He likes that's part of it for sure. Gets his wee wee hard. Outside of the score, the only other thing I thought was genuinely cool was the design of the end credits. Oh, hell yeah. That bumped it up a point for me. That was actually quite cool.

Really? Yeah, literally did. The credits are like the peak of the film. Oh yeah. I was like, I was so close to giving it a three. I was like, I'll give it a four. We get Twitch chat credits. Come on.

I liked that. the Twitch chat was constantly moving, you know, but I will say if we're going to be perfectionist about it, my two complaints about Twitch chat, one, they, even though they were technically reacting to things happening within the film, the screen, the game, whatever, the chat should have been moving faster during moments of implied action because then, you know, show more engagement. Instead, it was moving at a constant speed throughout. Second, yeah, they never got that right. Second, all of their commentary was fucking awful.

They were so unfunny. Holy shit. Most useless chat messages, and I would read them. Like, it could have saved the movie unironically if the Twitch chat messages were just like more interesting or funnier or had like a bit more character or maybe like a story within a story in the Twitch chat. Yeah. If that were more engaging, that could have saved the entire movie. Because that would have been like, you know, the commentary would have been more clear too, right? Well, that's the thing.

I just felt like a humorlessness about it and something that's so like obvious about anything on the internet is that there's all this comedy and humor and all these people constantly being ironic and making jokes like in the Twitch chat or any, you know, it's like you're missing a huge part of this, I thought. Yeah. You just so like grim. You didn't find like the only one I know it down from the Twitch chat was like. that that poo stank got law from that scene that you shouted out, Jake, your favorite scene. Yeah. That was a good one. Yeah.

Really made me feel like I was pooping, you know. With lore. Like I was there. To the film's credit, I've never seen anything like it before. Right? I guess. And I did kind of feel, you know, the music was great. And I did kind of feel.

like the longer that you stay in it, the more you kind of just accept that you're under its trance in a way. Like I found myself not getting like particularly impatient with it in a way that I feel like I would, if it were like a different tone, you know, or a different director maybe. This might just be one of those scenarios where like you trust the name and you're familiar with the guy and you're like, I want to get you, you know, feel like you're nudging them on the shoulder a little as you're watching. You just kind of accept it and you're in it. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know because like the Kanye stream from a few days ago is like more outlandish than this fucking film. So in a way it seems like what even is this? Like throw a few more million dollars. Well, A. It was a Kanye stream. Yeah, yeah. Tell me about it later. Tell me about it in detail.

Yeah, please. Yeah. But like you see like these rumble streams that are crazier than anything in this actual film. It's supposed to be like building on that culture. So maybe if this was, had a bit of budget and they actually leaned into that idea and it was like, oh, some crazy you're not supposed to be seeing this stream that hasn't been taken down yet. Like feeling to it. That could actually evoke some like emotion instead of just like, oh, there's a big AI baby head coming out of the water and it's got horns and look how crazy this is. Yeah.

The horns are like the Edge Lord marketing and he's selling those masks for like a thousand dollars online. or whatever. And there's like this artificial scarcity to them. Like they list all of the masks and T-shirts that have been already sold out and most of them are sold out. So it gives people FOMO. So then they feel like they have to spend like $200 on a hoodie or $1,000. And they have like skateboard decals and stuff.

So it seems like kind of like a, I don't know, scam. Is that the word? Yeah. When you say that, that kind of pisses me off more. So you all like make your money of this bullshit and like turning into a, product like it's a brand yeah that's annoying it's great this feels like uh this feels like a movie that a Connor O'Malley character with yes he'd have a poster of it in his room yeah oh my god true baby invasion uh what do you guys give it at a 10 i give it i give it a low four hmm low one

i'm giving it a yeah two two out of 10 or something like that you guys are so harsh on my boy Harmony. Yeah, one star. Although I will say I'm totally open to watching more of his movies. I'd watch Agro Drift. I mean, it was like, I like when something's different, you know? And it was, it was new. Like, I wasn't angry after watching it.

I was just like, okay, that was kind of a waste of time. Yeah. See, I don't mind being pissed off by a movie. Like, I'll take just an emotional experience. I don't have to like it. But, yeah. Yeah, still fuck this film. So.

I think, yeah, I think you would. I think you would definitely get something out of trash humpers. Okay. Spring Breakers is my favorite for sure. And then Agro Doctor One Foot is like definitely an interest. Like it's a required viewing just if you like different weird things that you go, what the hell was this? Have you seen Julian Donkey Boy?

Because I saw that it was on Criterion and Herzog is in that. I was like, well, it's on the Criterion channel. Yeah. The streaming. Yeah. And I saw Herzog was in it. I was like, oh, that's interesting. Yeah, Hurtag has acted in a couple of his films. He was also in Mr. Lonely. I've seen every Harmony Karin. I think there's nothing that I haven't seen, actually. And Julian Donkey Boy's good. They're all good and interesting. There's none that I like hate. You know?

He's worked with some crazy people. This is, there wasn't any like significant name in this like even Agridrift had Travis Scott in it. Yeah, that was weird. like a big celebrity cameo in this one. I think there was a trade for directing a music video. I think there was like a zero dollars traded cameo appearance. That was the hardest I loved in a macrodrift. Yeah. Fair play. I mean, it was great.

Yeah, weird fucking guy. Spring Breakers has aged like a fine wine. I'll say it a million times. Like a fine wine. Like the finest wine. Got Charlie saying about it. Hell yeah. Yeah.

We also saw Mickey 17. And it was in theaters. And it's still in theaters. And there was a source that said it would be on digital for me to watch like a week ago. And I wasn't able to. And so they lied. Thanks a lot. Whatever website you were, I forget.

the name. Whatever. I don't remember the title. It's one of the major things that tells you when movies come out. They were like, we have a source, an insider saying it'll come on this date and then it never did. So, I mean, it seems like it's doing not the worst in theaters. It's considered a flop, but only because of how much money they spent on the movie.

They did spend a lot over $100 million, right? And that's the most important thing to me about a movie, you know. If it doesn't make money, then that affects my rating. Yeah. So it made $121 million worldwide. So you include marketing and everything. It's a flop. So technically it's more than what the budget was.

But like, it's just, yeah, not considered a financial success. But, you know, I enjoyed it. I think this is probably my favorite out of the English language Bong Junho film. Hmm Cool Yeah I'm probably there with you I don't know why that specifically

As Jake was kind of just mocking It's been like the Talking point around this movie It's about it's the financial aspect to it while Kind of interesting It doesn't really indicate anything About the quality of the film at all

Yeah that's the conversation And I'm kind of there with you It's probably my favourite Out of his English stuff But I guess compared to parasite It's I don't Just way messier

but I did enjoy it overall and it did kind of feel more in line with an Ocjah or a snow piercer and I might even like this one more than those and a lot of the issues people seem to have with the kind of the tone and some of the cartoonish characters I feel was very much in line

with those English-speaking movies anyway so that didn't really bother me it was more the actual kind of structure of the movie and the script that I was kind of left thinking about It was just so dense impact and was quite long and trying to do a lot. And it felt like, man, this almost could have been better as like a miniseries or it's almost like three films in one. Like each act could almost be its own film with how much stuff it's doing because otherwise it sort of hurts the pacing as far as like there is such a reliance on narration and like setting up this world and like rushing through these things or under developing characters that are really.

intriguing like Stephen Yun's character I love that's in there but we'd love to see more from him and all these little elements and directions it goes that I did enjoy and did overall really like but it does feel messy for sure yeah I'm with you there I haven't seen any um any other bongjun ho except for snowpiercer I haven't seen parasite wow yeah I still haven't seen parasite I haven't seen anything else stop reading books what the fuck Jesus Christ Christ, you got to free up some... Stop reading books. Stop reading books.

I know, it's slowing me down. Parasize a must. I will. I'll just stop. I'll just stop. I mean, this podcast might be it because I've been watching more movies than ever. So I feel deleteracy leaving my bones.

That's what you guys do to me. And, no, but I really like Snowpiercer. I love Snowpiercer. And I was excited to see that. because people were like, yeah, it's more like his English language movies. And again, I've only seen that one. But it was super underwhelming. And I could tell from the first like 10 minutes, like, oh, I see why they kept changing

the release day and they were worried about it because it's kind of a tonal mess. I mean, I guess mess would be the ungenerous way to put it. But it is like combining all these different things that don't really necessarily. work all the time. It has this whimsical quality to it, but also this darkness, and it's trying to have this social commentary and explore, like, this deeper internal thing about, like, life and death and what cloning is and all these sci-fi ideas. And I really loved it in pieces, like certain scenes I really loved. And then the third act of the movie was just, like, a drag, like, oh, okay, we're doing this kind of story now.

I really thought we were kind of doing this other thing. But now we're doing the, I don't know, like Avatar, you know, bigger thing. I mean, the social commentary was like really obvious. And I feel like that was fine for me. Like Mark Ruffalo's character and everything like that was fun and amusing. He was playing, he was doing Jimmy Carter, actually, very effective. Oh, that makes more sense. Thank you.

Yeah. And by the end of the film, he just took up so much of that third act that I was like, all right, I get it. You know, I wanted to be back with Robert Pattinson and like explore the dynamics of the cloning and all of that. So, yeah, I kind of wish it just kind of picked Elaine or honed in on one specific element of the screenplay. But from what I've heard, the novel had very similar issues, especially with the third act. A lot of people were like, yeah, it's basically the novel and the novel. did the same thing in the end. So I don't know. I enjoyed it in parts, but it wasn't like a super memorable experience for me. A fairly recent novel too that it was based on, right?

Like within the last year's or something. Yeah. So I don't know how much that paints it. But yeah, I agree. I almost could have had a whole movie of just the Robert Banson clones. Like it always seemed like it was going in that direction towards the end of that first act and the conflict between the clones was kind of like and the rules they were setting up with this uh how we doing with spoilers i do we can do spoilers everybody we would recommend it overall i guess right i'd recommend watching it for sure yeah yeah it's good it's fun yeah not his best but also yeah definitely worth a watch i enjoyed it more than i thought i would hmm hmm but yeah um when it starts going into when they're Mickey 18 comes in and uh that kind of conflict between them seemed to be

where the film was going as far as like a central conflict. I was like, well, this could go some crazy places. And the like kind of philosophy and ideas of consciousness it was like bringing up and the fact that there was these different personalities, but they share these memories and this weird dynamic with the girlfriend and the kind of tender love story in the heart of it I did actually quite like. And that was kind of what held it together for me when there, you know, there are these cartoonish villains and whatnot that I kind of agree with Jake got a bit too much. Yeah, it's a conundrum. They got too much kind of focus towards the end, but without the development to give them any sort of complexity or complication. Like there was, they were so, like, cartoonishly evil, you know, but there's a lot of, like,

personality still to it with the, like, the Colette source thing I thought was quite funny. And he's all about, like, the class consciousness stuff in his films. And, you know, it's not exactly subtle. But I do kind of like that balance of the cartoonishness. So that does, it does work for me, but it was more like that, that plot and where it was going, where it's like, yeah, I could, I could just, I don't know, you, you either need to take something out or make it longer or, I don't, it was a weird way. It was flowing for me. I, I wasn't bothered by the pacing, but like, now that you do mention the idea of making it

a miniseries and Jake, you know, you saying, like, about these ideas that could be more explored, like, yeah, I agree. I think that probably that would be the ideal, format for it is just giving it more time to explore every, you know, crevice because it is trying to do so many different things at once in the totality, the total runtime of the film. Yeah, I think a miniseries format, you know, make it like four or five hours even. Maybe, I don't know, make it longer. Who cares? Yeah, I feel like that could really flesh things out.

Yeah, because it's the whole like science fiction angle, setting up the world and all the rules of the world and then the crime angle, like specifically with the main, like, characters and then this, all these little details that didn't seem to have any, like, payoff or, like, reason to them. Like, um, was I missing something with this, like, smells thing that kept coming up? A sensory thing where they were talking about, like, the, the smells. And there was that cool section with the, uh, the, like, serial killer character that was establishing why that rule came up with why you can't have the clones and they had to be taken out.

And that had like a smelling thing involved as well. And I was just like, I don't really understand like what, what that meant in the end or if I miss something. And that's kind of what I mean, though, about like how much it was like narration heavy. And just explaining so much through a lot of like dialogue where, yeah, it's quite overwhelming. That might have just been like a side effect of it being adapted from a novel. Because literature is going to be more likely to describe things like smell, whereas like in a film, audiovisual screenplay, like you never hear those things.

Yeah, it just seemed like it was going to go somewhere or... I don't know. Yeah, because it was that whole section where he was following that woman and there was like a smell that he was picking up off her when he was at the... Oh, yeah. Going to get the original... When he was signing up to go into space or whatever,

his company and it was... I think it was just descriptive for... I think it was just probably a line that, that Bong liked from the novel. The book, yeah. It felt so book focused in the sense that like it would only explain certain moments of like, oh, he really liked this moment from the book. Like it was really evocative and it's interesting in itself.

But within the structure of a movie, it just feels kind of like art. Like books can be digressive and wander and do all sorts of different things. And you don't mind because you have the time and space to do that. But in a movie, it does feel like, okay, all right, let's get back on track. you know, at a certain point. At least for this specific movie, I thought it needed just a little more focus because, yeah, like Stephen Yun's character I liked. I like that whole thing of like, okay, they're being chased by the... It's almost like needed a little more chaos or like some stuff to come together.

It kind of reminded me of like Wes Anderson in a sense where we have these kind of like dark, whimsical plot lines and they all can all kind of converge together. and all these different characters, but it has a payoff. Whereas this, it felt like, yeah, it just kind of turned into a different thing at a certain point. And it didn't have that payoff. Yeah.

I feel like I wasn't that bothered by the political commentary in terms of how it expressed itself. It did feel like a little heavy-handed at times for sure. But I almost wonder if most of my issue with it is just with Mark Ruffalo. because I feel like Tony Colette I never had a single issue with her

and how her character was portrayed I felt like her performance really matched the campiness and the wackiness of what the character was going for but Mark Ruffalo like I don't know he's just not one of my favorite actors I don't feel like he really nailed it or perhaps it just it was more to do with

really you didn't like him in poor things I loved him like he was like over his performance I've ever loved him in and that and eternal sunshine, I guess. Like, those are the two. Right, yeah, yeah. But otherwise, he's just kind of been like, eh, haven't loved him. He's honestly, quite a few movies I've considered him to be, like, bad.

This one, he was just, like, teetering the edge. Like, I wasn't sure what was missing. But perhaps a different casting choice would have fixed it. Do you ever wonder if, you know, when he watched a film like this, that is a South Korean director making a film in, English. Do you ever wonder how different it would be if you were just watching the exact same thing with Korean actors? Yeah, I really do. I question that a lot because that like, that could make the whole difference of like just kind of you don't really, you have a different

connection to the actors and like the language and you aren't like analyzing the tone necessarily of how everything is said because you aren't familiar with the language. So it, yeah, I really think about that a lot actually. Yeah. Yeah, the script hits completely different. Yeah, there's certain things that you almost kind of like just don't

even question if it's from a culture you're not as familiar with or a language that you're not fluent in. Yeah. Yeah, I can weirdly make it more immersive sometimes. Yeah, for me for sure. But another thing with the movie that I found

kind of mixed was the humor. I did like the whimsy of it and there were some good jokes in it but a lot of it like didn't quite land for me um it was it was okay um and i sound like i feel like i sound more negative overall than how i actually feel about this movie and i think i would watch it again um but i can't help it like pick it apart and be like man this a lot of like things ringing out of me um and one weirdly british too like loads of random british actors just showing up like the uh the kid from this is england um oh yeah Thomas Turguse is like a random dude in there.

Loads of the like bit characters were British for some reason. That stood out to me obviously. But yeah, weird movie, but really likable. I did find it likable. I love that lead performance from Paterson. I thought that was really good. And yeah, I just wanted more of the good things in it and not the messy things. Yeah.

Well, so this is a film where I feel like it's like well received enough both. audience and critic wise that like this might as well be a blockbuster film it just depends on like how much money you spend in the marketing and how you push it right like it might as well be like if you look at the other things that are blockbusters it's just like what the big difference I guess is this isn't like a huge IP right

the fact that the fact that that's not a huge IP exactly the fact that it's not a huge IP and it's still made over a hundred million dollars is pretty fucking impressive honestly right yeah true and like are you guys remotely surprised that like they're not seeing these immense returns from this budget they put down because it I don't know it's even from the trailers it was like this is kind of confusing it's hard to explain in like a brief little synopsis of like yeah I guess I never watched a trailer for existential like what are the big like science fiction

films exploring this kind of subject matter with budgets this high that do you know like what they're looking for, you know, half a billion plus kind of returns. It's, you know, it's your science fantasies more so, your Star Wars is your big JJ Abrams Star Trek's and stuff like that. And it's not really that kind of movie. As Jake kind of said, it goes more towards that avatar-type thing towards the end in that third act, which I actually did like, but just felt like this developed in its own thing with these characters I'd be more into if it was just another episode or a story or something like this. Yeah. But yeah. they were trying to do a lot.

It is kind of weird how it does. It's funny that we talked about Starship Troopers so recently, too. There's definitely a lot of parallels there. Yeah, no, I was thinking about that too while watching it. I do think that's a better film in far as what it's accomplishing with. Because I was thinking about Ochcha and these weird, like, blobby monsters that are like there to evoke sympathy from the audience and everything, which felt kind of familiar. but I liked it though. It is likable.

Yeah. Yeah. There's set pieces in here that are so memorable. Like the dinner scene, that whole dinner scene where it like escalates of him getting sick and poison. And then they're like, okay, let's put him out of his misery. Let's shoot him. Oh, don't shoot him right there.

That's the rug. You know, like that kind of like scene building and just the filmmaking style was so fun and kinetic. and you just, it's far and above any other, like, major blockbuster slop that's coming out right now. Like, it's just so much better. Yeah, wait a bit. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like just us even nitpicking about the screenplay and everything is kind of like, oh, this caviar isn't good enough for me, you know, like, it is, it's such a, it is such a breath

of fresh air, just seeing it. And like, yeah, I got a little bored near the end and it didn't all work together. But it's like, man, we get to see, like, an actual filmmaker, like, shoot a scene like. that and have like the another scene I loved was Mark Ruffalo's speech and he's like Mickey 18's like trying to kill him and that whole mess and is how that is staged with all these actors this giant scene it's just really well done so like there's great filmmaking on display just yeah the screenplay didn't really I don't think it really came together snow white has already made more box office great it of 142 million

brilliant well because that's a great screenplay yeah but some of the details that are annoying people as far as like the on the nose commentary is it how much of it's just like a bizarre coincidence because there is the like assassination attempt on the ruffler character like just misses and also like that same character is all about the like spreading seed across the galaxy like just like Elon type thing so it's like yeah but they couldn't Surely the book, I don't know. I think that a lot of fascists are probably very similar.

Yeah. I feel like it's been in the air for a while. I think we've known their type of character since before they existed. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like a crazy coincidence. Yeah. Exactly. I'm looking at the Canadian elections going on right now and there's so many people are just getting sick of the conservative party leader, Pierre, his numbers

or in the tanks, hopefully he just doesn't go anywhere. But he's considered to be like the Trump candidate here. And so I see all these posts of just people being like, oh, look at this thing he's taking from the Trump playbook. They'll play a clip of Pierre and they'll play a clip of Trump. And it's like, well, they're saying the exact same thing of like, instead of America first, he's saying Canada first. Or instead of this line, he's saying this line.

And, you know, there's probably a good chunk of it where he is like literally taking notes from Trump's campaign because at one point he, he did see it as beneficial. But at the same time, I feel like half of those are probably just coincidence because a lot of these authoritarian nut jobs just have a lot of the same ideas

and talk the same and are basically the same person. Right? It's like a mental disorder. They're literally just the same people. Yeah. But yeah, I was thinking during those moments like with the assassination attempt and stuff,

how that is like a crazy coincidence. That couldn't be intentionally, surely, with the timeline of when this was made when the book was released. Yeah. I'm unsurprised. It just wouldn't make sense for it to be that on the nose. But it's, uh, also can you really blame someone for seeing that in the film and they're like sitting down and watching it? Yeah, and I've never really quite seen that like so literally in a film before like this. So people were saying that that was like people were mad because they thought it was.

Yeah, because it was like so on the nose of like, oh, look, it's just an obvious Trump or something. slash Elon parody some of the stuff I was seeing anyway. I mean, there's going to be a lot of those forever. Well, yeah, I was thinking more in terms of like, Bong's other movies. And it's like, this fits more in line with like that presentation of his English films. And like Tilda Swinton is like so cartoonish and, uh, in, uh, in, uh, Ocja. And that felt, it felt more in line with that.

Also, do people get mad at like fucking Hitler parodies? No, they don't. That's just people are used to it. right? So important political figures, whether or not they're, you know, polarizing, but notable important political figures, things that we all see and know are going to be reflected in our art, right? So I don't know. Yeah. And there's always that crowd that are like, keep, keep my politics out of my Patinson sci-fi movie. Yeah. Despite the director and despite, I don't know, how you can really disconnect those things. The thing is, I didn't even see,

like Ruffalo as much of a Trump character. Like he's doing something different. Like it's very, like he's a billionaire. He's more of like an Elon guy or whatever. But I just find it funny when people are like, this evil narcissist is clearly my favorite politician. Like obviously this evil psychopath in this movie, it can only be him.

And it's like, I don't know. I didn't see that super clearly. I think maybe because he's like a failed politician at first and leaves and does his own thing. but also he's like manipulated by Tony Collette. Like it's a different thing. Like, I don't know. I thought it was different enough from politics, you know. Yeah.

It's simultaneously that, but also its own thing. I think that performance-wise, he was leaning into some kind of Trumpism stuff. And then, I don't know, the fake teeth were pretty funny. That was more like a Don Jr., I guess. But I think my suspicion is a lot of fans of Donald Trump are movie fans. of course, and like all of us, and like the movie Parasite and probably haven't seen many of his other movies and saw this and they're like, hold on, is this about us? You know, like, what the fuck? Is this, like, why are you making it super? What the frick? Yeah, what the frick, man. I don't know. That's my idea.

Who knows? Because of the success of Parasite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know how much, I think the average person saw it because it has Robert Pattinson and it looked like a movie that money was spent on it because it had CG and sci-fi. Oh, yeah. I think that's why the average person saw it for. I don't think a lot of people are watching it because of Paris. Well, probably a good chunk, but, you know, that's not where the box office numbers are coming from. No. Yeah, good movie, refreshing.

And, uh, I don't know. Does Bong Joon Hoh need this much mighty to make a movie? Probably not. He'll never get it again. Well, I mean, dude, maybe someone else will give it to him. But we'll see what he's doing. He's certainly going to continue having great films, right? He's never made a bad movie.

Yeah. Yeah. Check out. Yeah, I'm glad he got to make it. Check out Mother. It's incredible. check out okay

memories of murder I want to see you memories yeah that's the one I really want to see I've heard good stuff about that yeah it's awesome director bong Chad yeah parasites awesome

let's go let's give us more Stephen you as well I just oh yeah oh my god I know I love him I love what he brings he's got such a good screen presence and that how about his voice as well

the way uses his voice he's always great it's the same thing invincible is always like just a really great actor. Did you guys watch beef? Not yet, I would love to. I did actually, yeah. Yeah, I really liked. Oh my god, he's so good in that. Yes. Amazing. Yeah. I heard that the new

Marvel movie has one of the stagehands from beef doing something. Did you see that stupid fucking trailer? What's that new Marvel movie? Let's see, let's see. Which one? When you say new Marvel, do you mean the chair one? The chair? The Yeah, the 10-hour Tarkovsky hunter of all the chairs. Yeah.

Slow cinema. Yeah. What the fuck is this movie called? It's not the Avengers. Doomsday. Avengers Doom's Day. No, there's a different one. It's like a new different squad.

No, it's a different one. Wait, Thunderbolts? Thunderbolts. Yeah. Oh, Thunderbolts. Yeah, yeah. And they have a trailer that says Thunderbolts like cinema or something. Let's see.

Absolute cinema. Thunderbolts. And so the entire fucking trailer, they have these titles. I'm just going to send you the link. You can just see the visuals. Oh, yeah. The entire trailer. Yeah.

They just have these titles throughout going like from a real movie. From a real, the stars of midsummer, a different man, and you hurt my feelings. Like, okay, weird. And then the writers and director of beef. And then keep going. The cinematographer of the Green Knight. The production designer of Hereditary. the editor of Minari, the composers of everything everywhere all at once.

And then, you know, this obviously what you see in the trailer, filmmaking-wise doesn't reflect any of this, it's just the titles. It's just branding, yeah. The editing in the trailer is obviously trying to evoke some kind of fun art movie. People in the comments are just fucking eating it up. Always sad to see. but essentially what they're doing it's a funny marketing strategy

of them going did you know that some people who work on A24 movies have sold their soul to make something that they won't actually be able to show themselves in as if this is something new though too yeah they've been doing it the whole time but now they're like we gotta

convince people that we're making like real movies again like Chloe Zelle directed Eternals like they've been plucking these random indie director's for the fiber. If you make one A24 film, you get a call from Disney. Like, those are the rules. Like, fucking Lilo and Stitch is being made by Marcel the Shell with shoes on guys. I know.

So random. It's like if, uh, if, uh, the movie Jack and Jill in the trailer, they were like from the cinematographer of the thing. Yeah, exactly. Escape from New York. You know? Like, yeah, other people work on other movies, but why are you just citing a 24 movies like it's very clearly you're just like clout chasing here come on other people

work on other movies and your whole issue is that you don't really give them creative freedom so what's the point of advertising that they're making they're there to make a disney movie yeah they don't get to make a real movie they're not making beef i guess yeah they're in yeah they've got that optics problem where like the the marvel slop has become like such a meme and like the formula is so old they've got to do everything in their power to try and reinvent themselves and i guess That's how they're doing it. Yep. I give Mickey 17 a 7 out of 10.

Yeah, I'm right there with you. I feel like the contents of my review might make it sound, how should. But it's a solid 7 out of 10, three and a half star for me. I did enjoy it. I thought about it a few times since seeing it a few weeks ago. Yeah, I like it a lot about it. I'd probably see it again.

I would give it a high 7 even. I'm not quite there. I was wondering what I rated it before. I gave it a 3 out of 5 on Letterbox. So, but I feel like that maybe was too harsh. No. But yeah, I'd give it like a six and a half, seven. Nice.

Yeah. Solid film. Keep them coming bong. And who did this? Warner Brothers, figure your shit out. Okay? Figure your fucking shit out. They can't do better.

At least they released or relinquished the coyote Acme movie, right? Right, the Looney Tunes. I mean, like, reluctantly, some other ketchup entertainment bought it from them for 50, somebody had to pay them $50 million for them to let anyone see the movie that they weren't planning on selling. Or like they weren't planning on like releasing. So now like what, there's one left and it's Catwoman, right? Like, fuck it. We need mustard entertainment to come in and get that one.

Please. Huh? Huh? Yes, yes, somebody do it. Mr. Beasts could do it if he actually wanted to do good things with his life. He should just buy Warner Brothers at this point? Yeah, he'd do a better job. Unironically, probably.

You know what, here's the one thing that I would like to keep pointing out. We've talked a lot about these like, you know, make 20 videos about Kathleen Kennedy per day, 20 videos about Brie Larson and now 20 videos about Rachel Ziegler people And a lot of it is like with the premise of like No, because they're destroying movies, right? This is like a pro art thing They're just making the movies worse

Like that's the argument if you were to ever be like Hey, why are you focusing so hard on these specific people? If you search the word David Saz laugh on their channels Most of them nothing comes up No, yeah Nothing comes up. So they're not they're not talking about like like someone who's actually anti-art

who's like shelving projects for tax write-offs, right? They're not talking about this guy. And then on one of the channels I believe it was like RK Outposts who I've made fun of a couple of times. You search his channel. There's like 10 videos about David Sazlab, but they're all talking about how based he is. He's like

he destroys the woke people that want their art to be seen. Like literally, it's insane. Yeah. It's funny. Oh man. Yeah. Crazy town. Man, just like pursuing the bottom line and just

caring about my... It's really based. I mean, at least he's not woke. Yeah. I mean, that's what they're doing, so... Yeah. That's the whole... That's the whole content form.

I mean, the only good thing, right? Or in Warner Brothers defense right now, um, is one battle after another coming out, uh, which is an expensive PTA movie. Um, but that's Warner Brothers.

From the looks of how the trades are reporting on it it sounds like that's not they're not going to be doing that shit anymore yeah yeah i don't know i mean leo de cabrio sells tickets he does he does you're gonna have an original IP you better have leo in it wasn't flower moon like a flop as well there oh it was too long though yeah as far as box office yeah yeah no no i mean i i think it's awesome And also that was for a streaming service. They don't care about the bugs. Yeah.

No, that's, I mean, I just really hope. I don't know. Did you guys see the trailer for that movie? I'm really excited for it. I go out of my way to not watch trailers for things that I am excited for. Right. So, no, I have not seen that trailer. And I'm going in blind.

Yeah, I felt that the same way. But Minecraft movies, WB. So that will bring back all the losses. Oh, yeah. It's Kino. And Superman. Oh, yeah. Yeah

I mean yeah sure why not I'll watch Superman Maybe not in theaters or something But I'll see it Yeah I'll see Superman I'm Minecraft And fan four stick Not fan four this time

Not fan four stick Superman Oh Mm-hmm They should have made Fant2 stick Why Bring back Josh Trank What the fuck

They're in the new Avengers Yeah what happened to Is he just in director jail now? He's made one thing since then, but he's probably got another project in the works. He made that weird Tom Hardy movie. I think that was him. Yeah, nobody saw that really, I don't think. Yeah, he's got some projects in the works.

Just I don't think there are things that people will watch. I think he's banned from making real movies. Yeah. Wasn't he like trashing the movie when it, wasn't he, Trashing Fantastic Four as it came out. Yeah, he went on 4chan. Yeah. And then he went on Twitter and then was like, guys, there's about to be a really

shitty movie that comes out. It's not my fault. I'm like, dude, just play fucking ball. What did you think you were going to do when you sign up to make a fucking superhero IP? You think you're going to be able to make your fucking art film with no restrictions? No notes. Play fucking ball.

One for you, one for them. learn your lesson never do a studio movie again if you don't want to never do a fucking big IP but play fucking ball while you're there and don't ruin your fucking reputation in the industry yeah it's weird to do sandbag yourself like that

when you're in like that yeah before the movie's out yeah that's like lawsuit material that's like you sabotaging the film's success mm-hmm yeah goofy all right what a I'm still listening

to the bye-bye song. It's so funny. Bye-bye. Are there any other good songs from it? The enunciation throughout is so wrong. Like the way, even without him saying bye-bye, because I'm gonna be. Like, why do you say it? What's the one with the kiddie lions?

There's a particular standout funny. Oh yeah. I've always wanted a bradzee. That's the one. And then you go on the lion king. Subreddit and people are like, why are people just making fun of the enunciation? I'm British and this is how we talk. It's like, no, it's not how they pronounce brother. It's not because they're not saying brother.

It's because they're saying brother. Like it's the way your voice is being projected and how it's being enunciated. It has nothing to do with the accent. But they don't understand because they're locked in to the Lion King life. Right? They've made it their identity Like me But I'm watching it now

You know Who wrote the music for the film Oh it was Lin-Manuel Miranda What the fuck I know Who's like just phoned it in now Like he's just

Yeah Yeah He takes like two seconds To write a song And he's like Bye bye Bye I'm watching I always wanted a brother.

I've always wanted a brother. Ugly looking film. Looks like shit. Flat and washed out. Yeah. It does look like one of those like obvious cost-cutting films. You know? Like every Disney sequel.

Yeah, yeah. And like just watching this song, like, make him go bye-bye. Like we run into the exact same problems as the first film. like sure they have like more facial expressions now but at the end of the day this entire fucking song this like music video on YouTube or whatever you want to call it he's just on a tree and then he's on the ground and that's it there's like no you could you could save this song by having some creative visuals that match and are in sync with the music do something fun is every scene like set at like 1 p.m. as well in the afternoon why do they never do

thing with like the setting or the like tone with using color like I'm watching that I always wanted a brother scene right now and it's like it looks exactly the same as the other one the villain song why would you not use it and it's fucking animated like you can put it and do whatever you want in your Unreal 5 bullshit have it be I know later in the day or different lighting to indicate a mood it's so so lazy it's very lazy How much money did it make that? I'm going to look right now. Let me see.

Babe-bay. I can't believe how funny this song is. $720 million on it. They spent $200 million on this shit. And that made profit. Oh, God. Uh-huh. Yeah, and this will get millions of plays on Disney Plus,

get memberships, kids will just watch it. Bye-bay. Wow. I don't know if kids are watching this, though. There's no way. a kid is watching this. No, because it's boring. It's boring for kids.

Kids don't, like, this is not anything that a kid would like. What are kids watching on Disney Plus then, if it's not Mufus? Bluey. Bluey, right? Oh yeah, and Barry Jenkins, that's another pluck that have just a random, like,

up and coming talent director just being plucked from the machine. Yeah. I mean, he wasn't really up and coming. He'd already won best picture. Wait. No, wait. He didn't win best.

No, he did win best picture. Yeah, he did. Yeah, I think you didn't. It was not La La Land. I wonder, like, realistically, how much he was handed from that $200 million. A significant amount. Enough to make him do it. Yeah.

You know, I would just do, like, I don't know, if I was doing, like, a big IP or something, I think I would make sure in my contract that I'm getting paid. like some kind of residual. Like Robert, Danny Jr. style where you get like 5% of box office or something. Yeah, that's what I would fight for.

Yeah. When you're attached to an IP like the Lion King, it's like, okay, even if this is shit, people will be watching it eventually. Especially if, um, if you just come off like an Oscar win too, you might actually be able to leverage that.

That's, I thought that was part of why they often like pluck these like indie people's because they can kind of fuck them yeah strong arm them oh yeah it's kind of like it's kind of like if you're a like a predator

and you go after girls who are like young and don't know any better and you can manipulate easier you're like oh you know like I've got income you're still in high school that's kind of what Disney is

is a Predators. Predatory groomer for directors. That's kind of crazy. But accurate. All right. Sorry about that. Oh, no problem.

We were just talking about how Disney is basically Jerry Seinfeld dating a 17-year-old. What? Oh, don't worry about it. They'll keep the editor will keep that conversation in the edit. Oh, fantastic. That's so great and reassuring to my ears. Nashville. All right.

Yeah, Nashville. Let's talk about it. Let's do it. I am really excited to hear your thoughts, both of you, on this, since, from what I understand, neither of you have seen any Altman movies or, Alex, you've seen Nashville before? Yeah, no, I thought I'd seen. Nashville, but it crossed wires and I've actually seen Mash. Mashville. Oh, Mashville?

Great. Not just Mashville. That's cool. So I hadn't seen Nashville. Okay, perfect. This should be an interesting conversation. That's largely why I picked it. Also, because it's like one of my favorite movies ever.

It's like I've probably seen it up to 10 times now. Oh, damn. I saw it on screen in LA once. Lily Tomlin was there at the screening and Ronnie Blakely. And it's, yeah, it's one of my favorite movies. And I love Robert Altman, but I started out not really liking Robert Altman. I think like you, Alex, I saw it mash for the first time.

And I was kind of like, all right, this is kind of weird. Yeah, that's what I remember. Sorry, my dogs are howling one second. Make him go, bye, bye. It's just on a loop forever. in my head my new thing I'm a brother in my head now

brother but yeah okay sorry about that all good it is a madhouse here today no problem

you've got responsibilities and we don't it's fine I just I just let them go wander the streets you know your baby

probably attacking some old lady the baby yeah Yeah, he's just out there attacking people, strangers. No, but Nadia's back to her work. Her maternity leave is over, so it's kind of, you know, been busy. But what was I saying?

Mashville. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, so I think I saw Mash for the first time, and I was like, fuck this. This is like just chaotic. I don't really get it. It feels kind of juvenile and dumb, whatever. How similar is it?

But then I saw Mass. I think it's pretty, it's similar in, like, stylistically, I guess, with like the long shots, the overlapping dialogue. That's definitely, like, you can tell it's a Robert Allman movie, but it's nowhere near as, like, deeper, clear as this movie. I feel like this is kind of his real first, like, perfect movie that kind of brought together all of his different interests. But, no, this is, like, in 1975.

He made MASH in 70, I think. So he was making quite a few movies, some really great movies in those years. He started out in television for a long time, and he served in the military before that. And then he just kind of like broke into Hollywood with this super irreverent film, MASH that, like, I think was nominated for Best Picture. It was a huge deal. Obviously spawned the TV show and all that. But he really like developed his style on after that. And Nashville is kind of like the perfect version of that in my mind.

And then, yeah, when I saw Nashville, it just kind of blew me away. For a while there, like early on when I was like in high school, like learning about movies and exploring all these directors. I saw Altman as kind of like, all right, what's the deal? Like he's kind of this crazy chaotic dude. It doesn't even seem like he has a control over his own movies. Like he just let stuff happen. and there's no organization. And I was used to like admiring directors like Kubrick or Fincher who like have this

exacting attitude and you can tell like they have thought about every single frame of this film. Whereas Altman, it feels like he's kind of throwing a party and letting all these people add to the pie and mixing all this stuff up. And I've seen enough Altman now at this point. I've probably seen like 20 or so of his movies where I can go, okay, this is when it works, this is when it doesn't. This is when the chaos is rained in enough. This is when it's a little too loose. This is when he does more of a chamber piece. This is when it's like a huge, like a wedding. That's like, he made a wedding after Nashville. That was the big tagline

of it was, oh, we had 24 major characters in Nashville. Well, let's do 48 now. How about that? It was like a big thing. And that's a little too much. Like a wedding, I think is fun, but it was a little too much. And yeah, so I just think he has a fascinating career. He made a ton of movies. Not all of them work, but he's made some stone cold masterpieces and was a huge influence on like PTA and everything. So yeah, I can see that. Yeah. I mean, Nashville, I mean, even Henry Gibson, who's in this, was in Magnolia. And like, if you guys watch shortcuts, which is kind of like Nashville, but set in L.A. and was made in the 90s. That is very much like the pre-magnollia.

It is so magnolia. It's kind of insane. How is three women? Three women is amazing. I love that movie. It is very different from this. The camera work and everything is very similar, but it's sort of like him doing a Bergman piece, but with some weird 70s.

these like comedy. It's very surreal, funny and completely different, but so great. And that's why I love him too, because he has so many different types of movies. McCabe and Mrs. Miller, similar thing. Like, you can tell it's an Altman movie, but he's just in these different, like, you know, areas and can really dive into this different stuff. So, yeah, what did you guys think of Nashville? Alex, you're going to predict? Oh yeah, yeah, I need to make prediction. All right. Alex, you're going to give it a, you're going to give it a nine out of ten.

Adam, you're giving it a five out of ten. That's my prediction. Okay. Interesting. I, man, I got an unpopular opinion here, I think. Going into this, this is one of those movies where it's like one of those film people movies. Like, you're not allowed to dislike time movies. And going into this, my expectation was like, I see the satire tag there, the comedy,

hearing that it did inspire PTA, who I love. I love Magnolia. We did an episode on it a year ago or so. And this kind of felt like my issues with Magnolia, like times a thousand. Nice. I just couldn't get into it. I really, I was really trying. I really wanted to.

But I found it so sort of sporadic and, uh, I don't know, it had me at first. right when it was talking about the when this political apathy speech and I love the idea of the politics at the time and I'm I don't I don't know anything for the record about like Nashville and what this place means or what it really represents in there it's stupid really I know it's known for the sort of the musical side and that's oh it's saying oh it's saying it's talking about um I've got things to say and yeah I like this kind of world it's setting up for me this mood and atmosphere and these characters that it's setting up and the idea of like, yeah, let's get into this political satire of the time and what it's saying with it. And I felt like it was being sort of biting with what it was saying about the, this place and what it represents and the picking apart the fame and what it, how it acts, how it makes people act and what it brings out of people. But then sort of, I was waiting for something else to kind of grip me or for something to be developed or for it to move into a direction that I was kind of invested. in and while it does get there, like two and a half hours in, I was so sort of like checked out by that point. And while I do appreciate it on like a technical level, there was a lot I liked about how it was put together. You said about this overlapping dialogue and these kind

of natural, almost improv-y sort of performances. And there's a lot of great dialogue, as I just said. But as a whole, I just, I just, it wasn't speaking to me. It really wasn't. Whereas these sort of mosaic structure films, which I think are. super ambitious and cool on technical level. They often don't work for me. And I was bringing that up in the Magnolia discussion, which I think had about nine characters from memory or something. You mentioned the 24,

and I just feel like I just didn't. There's so many to a point where I was almost like struggling to keep up at a certain point of like, who was that again? Like what are they talking about? Like what is the, I know it's not the point, but there was no real like urgency to what was going on.

like the direction it was headed and I know it's more of like a a vibe or exploring this this place and what it means but man I was I was trying but it just was not speaking to me it is it is very much a vibe movie and I I have a feeling like if you enjoy maybe this generation of like country music that might also help your experience because there's a lot of music I fucking hate country yeah and I mean like this is even the better version of country, like modern country is just ass. Modern country is basically like pop music with auto tune. So this is like a good generation of country for me.

I enjoyed the music. I enjoyed quite a bit of it. I thought that the opening scene for me was like a 10 out of 10 for just the vibes and what it was going for and like the juxtaposition between the song about, you know, must be doing something. something right if we've been here for 200 years and then just cutting to the the gospel music and showing the juxtaposition and the reporter just being so like comedically ignorant and just saying all of these like really odd things like oh if you take off their clothes it's like you're in the darkest of africa like i like they're good character moments like that but i do i do i am somewhere in the middle and in the sense that like i i also do feel like uh I would have rather have seen like a more reined in version of this,

both probably in length and also in the number of characters. Yeah, I, it is a vibe movie. And I don't know if maybe this is also just because I'm like, you know, in the middle of these weird chronic health issues. But I was like, I was kind of feeling like shit when I watched it yesterday. And I was kind of just like, you know, I don't, I don't hate what I'm watching right now, but I would like to go to bed. Sure.

Yeah. I do feel like it's a very well-made movie and I would like to see Robert Altman's other stuff though especially if three women has three characters in it It has a couple more than that but yeah It is three characters McCabe and Mrs. Miller is mostly about two characters So there you go

Yeah I uh okay so I'm receiving the I'm receiving the opinions here I'm processing I'm emotionally processing this. No, but I was kind of half hoping you guys would not totally love it because I think that's a totally natural reaction to a movie like this because it is so overwhelming.

Even watching it now, and I was thinking of you guys in mind as I was rewatching it this time going like, man, this is a lot. This is a lot of stuff going on if you haven't seen it several times. if you aren't like really in the right mindset. Like if you feel like shit, if you're like, oh my God, this is two hours and 45 minutes of this, and it does not stop, you know, country music, wall to wall, so many original songs. And it is a musical, you know. There's a lot of music in it.

And, you know, the music has grown on me. There are some songs that I absolutely love. One of the most interesting aspects of this movie is that the, actors were really involved in writing their songs. Yeah, yeah, I heard that. Karen Black wrote her songs, Ronnie Blakely, who plays Barbara Jean, you know, the woman who keeps passing out and she has that scene on stage where she starts ranting and doesn't get to her song and stuff.

She was brought onto the film to write music and then she ended up performing in the movie. And her songs, I absolutely love. I love even the kind of bad songs like Henry Gibson's songs in the beginning you must be doing something right to last 200 years are so like they fit so perfectly with

like what the movie's trying to do and fitting in with the genre and all of that you know the song that he sings at the grand old opera you know for the sake of the children we must say goodbye and that music being juxtaposed on the same evening with

you know Keith Caradine you know singing his more like contemporary sounding music the more rock music he wrote his music he wrote I'm Easy that song which was like a huge hit at the time he was just an

actor like he wasn't a songwriter anything he just like came onto the movie he wrote that song and he wrote the piece it don't worry me which is the movie closes out with that And that's like the whole, that's just such a great piece of music. So I love the music.

Of course, I grew up in Arizona. I grew up listening to country music. But I feel like even when I first saw this movie, I wasn't in love with the music. I was just kind of like, okay, yeah, I'm here for the characters. I'm here for what's going on on screen for the like raining in all this chaos. And I think that if you guys were to see some other Altman movies, then come back to this, you'd have a different feeling about it overall. you might appreciate a little more just because you like you can see and when I've seen this

now like for the 10th or so time that it's funny you mentioned it was like kind of a vibes movie which it is it's sort of like a hangout movie it lasts over like a full weekend we're seeing these different plot threads but that's not really the point of it is the plot but watching it this time I was going like my god this is meticulously plotted and planned like I was really admiring like the screenplay of this movie, which was written by Joan Tewkesbury, you know, who Robert Allman asked her to write this movie, go to Nashville. I want a movie about Nashville. And she basically just brought in all these characters, made all this stuff happen. And then once the screenplay was at that level, Robert Allman kind of hands it over to the actors.

And it's like, all right, we're going to do our own thing. You can go with the dialogue. You can do your own stuff. You know, add whatever you want. Geraldine Chaplin's character wasn't in the, she's the BBC reporter. She wasn't even in the original screenplay. That was an addition. She wrote her own dialogue, you know, all the crazy stuff that she says about school buses, you know, that one scene that makes me crack up every single time is when Lily Tomlin tells her like, no, my two children, they're deaf. And she goes, oh, how horrible. And she, and then Lily Tom was like, no, no, no, you should meet them. And Geraldine Chablin's like, oh, I could never, God, that'd be horrible. It's just so.

ridiculous. Here's a question. So when you say, because when I watch this film, I don't really get the impression that it's like ad libed per se. Are you saying that it is? Because when you talk about the actors writing their own characters basically, do you mean that in a spontaneous way? Or do you mean that in a just they have creative control and we're able to flesh things out in a premeditated way? A good question. It's like a combination from what I understand. stand. They have the script. They have the structure of the script because each of these characters, they have like a mini character arc. You can really look and like I feel like there's a version of this. There's like five movies in here that would be pretty good movies and enjoyable. You focus in

on like the trio, the people cheating on, you could focus on the political stuff on lots of different stuff and it would work. But what I think makes the movie so special is that it's like this democratizing tapestry of all this stuff happening. And like if you are on the level with the movie, if you're like vibing it out and you're having a good time, you're listening to the music and just kind of letting it wash over you and not really worrying about tracking everything happening going on, then I think it works really well. At least it does for me. And the dialogue, yeah, they had the script and everything. And then Robert Altman's like, all right, this is for the actors, do what you want, try new stuff.

And also because of the revolutionary, not revolutionary, the very new technology of recording all these different audio tracks at the same time, that they would mic all of these actors in the same room or whatever and film them. And then they could pick out the audio that they like. They'd pick out moments, you know, that were natural and authentic. So it is kind of like a documentary feel combined with traditional things. Yeah. That's cool.

Because like, yeah, from a sense of filmmaking, like, in terms of. of what's shown on screen in the framing. Like, it never really feels like a spontaneous kind of documentary style for me at least. Like, it feels like relatively planned out or just, I guess they had enough coordination for what kind of shots to get beforehand. I don't know how many cameras they had running at once. But, yeah, I don't know. I guess I've seen real documentaries that look really well planned out as well, you know.

Yeah. It seemed like that way through the, um, the dial. lockout was delivered sometimes where it seemed like eras were left in now and again and kind of a like naturalistic way that made it feel more realistic almost semi-documentary. But I want to go back to the music a little bit. There was a piece of trivia that I read that kind of stood out to me saying this film Parodies of Country Music songs were so spot on that devoted country music fans attending it often had no idea it was a satire. And I got to admit parts of that with going over my head, I guess, as far as that satirical angle, as far as how it relates to the music,

outside of things like the opening scene you were talking about with the 200 years and stuff, I was picking up on the commentary of that, but the broader way that satire is used in the film, I don't know, I just really feel like I'm missing something, because a lot of, like, the best reviews I was reading about it were describing about, like, oh man, it just really captures the feel of Nashville and the mood of it in the, the way people act in this place and it's like, well, I don't really know I have the context I feel and I don't feel like the film really gave me it either

outside of being this kind of slice of life. I don't know if there's something about the politics of the time or what it was saying that I just... Yeah, I mean, like, it does kind of go into like the political climate at the time, you know. If there's one thing you need to know about Nashville, here, I'll give you a couple things. They call themselves Music City

they play one genre of music. It's bullshit, okay? If you're gonna call something Music City, give it to like fucking Austin, Texas where they play more than one genre of music. Fuck yourself, Nashville. Second thing. The entire vibe,

lots of fucking cowboy hats, lots of like really oppressive vibes. Me and my ex went into a bar. The girl working there, like had Gaydar and started a conversation with us. she happened to be queer as well sort of thing. And we just had like a long conversation about just like how,

how much she hates living there and wants to like leave, you know, just a lot of, the average person there would probably like to take her rights away sort of thing. She has to, you know, hide her queerness sort of thing. Like,

it's a very not fun place. It's kind of lame. Here's a third fact. It's where, fucking Ben Shapiro's studios are. So you see Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, all those guys, yeah, it's a Nashville-based organization. I didn't know that.

Okay. We need a modern Nashville. We need modern Nashville with Ben Shapiro walking around the street. Yeah. Ben Shapiro in his... Him larping as a cowboy. Hmm.

I'm an alpha male. I feel like Robert Altman would have a very different type of Nashville movie today if you were to, if you were alive. Yeah. You know, in this political climate, I mean, it'd be interesting. Altman was super like anti-authoritarian and very much hated. And I mean, I think there's a story that the reason why the Paramount logo at the start of the film is so scratched up and looks so fucked up is because he was pissed at them for whatever

and he just like stomped on the print of the logo specifically. That's fun. I like that. I like that. He was always getting into trouble with, like, studio bosses and whatever and wouldn't let them on set or so I hear. But, no, I think that I get where you guys are coming from with the perspective of, like, the satire of like, I don't really get what, like, maybe I need more context of, like, what this is satirizing. And to me, though, I feel like this movie isn't really that much of a satire as much as it is just exploring. the characters, like that's how I approach it. Like, there is some satirical stuff, especially

with like the, um, Philip, uh, what's his name? How, uh, how Philip Walker, what, what is the name of the politician, the van going around just spouting like random nonsense platitudes. Like, oh, don't you want, you know, Christmas to smell like oranges. Don't you want, we don't need any lawyers in Congress. We need these, you know, um, that kind of air of we need change. Stuff needs to change. Also, it's... Populism. The populism, the bicentennial was going on, or this was 75, 76 would be the bicentennial. And then Richard Nixon resigning. He, I was looking at some trivia and he, apparently when they filmed the Grand Ole Opry scenes, that was the day Nixon resigned from office. So that was all in the air. All like, okay, the country is going to shit, basically.

Altman later made a great movie about Richard Nixon called Secret Honor, which is really good, which is one single character in the whole movie. So that's a good one. But hated Nixon, hated authority. And I feel like what is so great about this movie is that it could have been just a broad parody making fun of these country hicks, you know. Altman, from what I read, was no fan of country music, had no involvement with this world. They're all Hollywood people. And the Nashville scene and a lot of people at the time saw this movie as like mocking them.

And they said that the music was shit. They're like, if you're going to do it, at least use some of our actual music. This music is shit. It's not like our good music, you know. And but what's so great about this movie is that kind of starts. with taking all of these stereotypes, all of these archetypes that you'd see in kind of like a movie making fun of this side of America and whatever. Like you have the, you know, Henry Gibson character who's just like a jackass, you know,

super smarmy country guy. And spoil it. Can I spoil the end of the movie? You can spoil it. Okay. By the end of the film, he shows real courage on stage when Barbara Jean is assassinated, you know, he gets shot in the arm and he has kind of a spine there. His wife, Barbara Baxley's character, is obsessed with the Kennedys, you know, and we learned that she was, like, out there campaigning for them and how much she resents that they were not accepted in the South at the time.

That one character, I forget his name, but he's, you know, you have the one black country singer, you know, and then he gets heckled on stage by, like, one of the other only black characters in the, in the movie, you know. And it's really like allowing these characters that you see simply as like stereotypes and giving them a moment to flip and have a moment of humanity. And that's what is just so amazing and what I love so much about it. There's all these little moments of like Lily Tomlin's character, loving her, you know, children and being so conflicted with Keith Caradine's character and how he's just so such a jackass and horrible. and that incredible scene where these four women are in the audience as he's singing and I'm easy. And you see on each one of their faces like, oh, this song's about me. And then you see Lily Tomlin like, oh, no, this is actually about me. And she has that tragic face, you know, it's just so beautiful.

How much, even though it's such a long movie and it can be accused of being excessive, the each individual parts for each character, it is so brief and so like to the point. and concise. That why, like, watching it this time, I was going, man, it's really, like, intricate. All these little characters have these little moments, these tiny, mini arcs, and it comes together somehow. Like, I just feel for each of these characters more and more as I watch it and have all these different reactions. You have these assholes. You have these jerks. And then you have characters like Barbara Jean, who is like, clearly you see in that tiny moment when she's talking to the guy whose wife is in the hospital, who dies, you know, and you see them interact for one brief

moment. But in that moment of their interaction, you learned that she was becoming friendly with them. Like, she had a relationship with their characters and it was like caring genuinely about all these other people. And it's just so stunning, like the display of humanity. And I mean, I'm sounding like pretentious here now. But like, this movie means so much to me. You know, you don't sound pretentious. You don't sound pretentious. I'm really glad you're saying. I'm glad you liked it in this way. Because I was just kind of hoping for a big fan of the movie to like, you know, nerd out about it, honestly. Oh, yeah.

No, I mean, that's, I'm glad that it's just, it moves me so much. And again, I'm also, maybe this is because I'm American, you know, I grew up here, I guess I'm more familiar with, like, I mean, I have no idea. I mean, I have no idea. But by the end of the film, when it all comes together, when we see all these characters on stage that we've been following this whole movie and, and, you know, the ups and downs of this, like, five days in Nashville. and the culmination of that song after the assassination,

it's just so overwhelming. I can't even describe the feeling of like, wow, this is just a beautiful picture of people. Like, it is satirical. It does have this mean edge to it, but it is not hateful. It's not bitter. It's like, yeah, these are human beings.

And even though our conception of them and, you know, their culture might be stupid. That's why it's great because it's coming from an outsider's perspective, you know, that he's able to see like, yeah, this is all silly and ridiculous, but it's kind of beautiful too. And it's just so, yeah, I love it. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, I guess that's part of where my frustration was coming from on a character level with the, like, character study of it. Because I was finding most of these characters intriguing in one way or another.

I wanted to know what Jeff Goldblum was all about on that weird tribe. that he's like riding around or what Shelley DeVole is up to or Ned B2 they were the ones that kind of stood out most of me but I just didn't feel like I really got a good impression or you're saying about the mini arcs like I guess I just wasn't engaged throughout the movie and it was cutting in a kind of comedic way and to sort of highlight the dialogue a lot of the time especially with that British character who also was actually one of my

perhaps my favorite character just purely from a level of like she's this like annoying person from another country who doesn't really understand the culture who's just like gawking at it and doesn't understand it so I could just get in through like that perspective and she's probably

as some of the funnier lines and more awkward kind of interactions with people but as far as arcs I wasn't really picking up on as much outside of the Henry Gibson character and how he has a spine in the shooting scene which

was a good tense scene that there was a like a level of tension and the buildup of that and the where it was coalescing. I didn't know it was coming. And I was like, why is this, why is this tension coming from? Is something going to like kick off right now? Which I thought that was very well done. But as I say, it was like two and a half hours in and I just wasn't really invested into these specific characters. And I guess that's, yeah, where that frustration was coming from. So I wanted to know more, but I felt like I wasn't getting it. And maybe I was, maybe I expect my expectations were wrong and I just was expecting something that wasn't quite as vibey or loose in its structure, just not knowing him as a director, so maybe that's part of it.

But that was another thing I was seeing in some of the reviews I was reading about the that it almost demands to be seen repeatedly. But my issue with that is that after this experience, I don't really want to go back anytime soon, I guess is my issue. Yeah, no, I totally get that. Yeah, I could watch it again for sure. But I would like to watch his other films before trying to watch this. Yeah, I think if I watched Popeye first, I would get like a better understanding of his fight.

Honestly, yes. Popperi is not that different from Nashville. Like, in terms of tone, the overlapping dialogue, it's like Nashville, but like cartoon version. I like Popeye a lot. Honestly, I think you guys would like three women. I think he liked McCabe and Mrs. Mill. I mean, there's lots of movies that are super different from Nashville. But, I mean, I totally get where you're coming from, Alex.

It is super brief. Like, it's very small stuff. It's not going deep into any of these characters. And it's kind of floating over everything. And I think you also get that feeling where, like, everything is this long zoom lens. Everything Altman does is this long zoom lens filmed from far away. It feels like we're like not intruding on these people, but we're just like observing from a distance. And you kind of see them flattened in a way.

literally and like metaphorically in the story. And like there's these little grace notes that they get, you know, like that moment where Ned, Ned Beatty, who's like running around trying to, to Mike, him and Michael Murphy are trying to get people to go to, you know, the political event at the end of the film. And that moment when he like basically goes up to the woman who's like humiliated and insulted who goes to that political, you know, thing. It has to do a strip tease. And after the fact, you know, he goes up to her and is like, I want to kiss you all over, blah, blah, but one is being all creepy.

And then her one friend, you know, who's there, steps out of the shadows. And he just goes, oh, shit, man, and walks away. And, like, we just learn so much about that character. Just from that little, just the way he says, shit, man. Like, you just, I just feel like I know who that is. And I don't necessarily need too much more from that. Like, I just love those little things in the performances that highlight these characters. And then that moment when her friend is talking to him, like, look, I need to tell you, you can't sing.

And like, we're wondering, at least I was during the movie, like, is anyone going to tell her? She sounds like Kerman the Frog, you know? Like, it is so painful watching her do this. And, of course, finally he tells her and she goes, oh, shut up, you have no idea. I'm going to be a star. It's like, fuck. Like some of these characters,

yeah, they don't grow, but you see like another side of them. You see something that's just kind of surprising and sometimes sweet, sometimes ugly. And, yeah, there's just all these little things that I,

does just stand out to me when watching this. Yeah. So I do get that. I feel like something like Magnolia is doing Altman, but from like Scorsese's, like level of visceral like the cameras moving around we're like really diving into these characters emotionally and this is kind of um uh at a step removed of like we i don't know i find it a very relaxing movie in a sense it is relaxing yes right some would call that boring but do you remember

how you felt about it the first time you saw it if this because you were like very familiar with this obviously if you've seen it like 10 plus times yeah do you have any of these kind of overlapping Yeah. Feelings of confusion? Yeah, absolutely. Like the first time I was watching it, like, okay, I don't really know where this is going. But I was also primed to enjoy it because it had been hyped up so much. I think Pauline Kale has a super famous review of this before it even came out.

That was like, she was like, this is the future of cinema. She was like, this movie is everything. This is what we need to be. It's baby invasion. It's, it is snow white. You know, it's the, it's the, future. And that was like a big deal at the time. You know, Roger Eber. I mean, there's so much like critical praise of the movie that when I saw it, it still kind of like charmed me. And I appreciated

it more afterwards. I think the first time I was like, yeah, that's a cool movie. I don't get all the hype. But I think over time, I've appreciated it more. And yeah, I mean, I'm just glad you guys gave it a chance. I mean, you didn't really have a choice. I kind of forced it on you. I have yet to not finish a podcast recommendation. That's awesome. I have done two times speed on one or two of them. Oh, you're in trouble? Not this one, though.

Madagascar, but, no, like, I just love it. I love everything about it. And yeah, I don't know. Do you guys have any other thoughts, complaints? like um yeah i'm just wondering how much the country music side of it is playing into my feelings on it just being like so detached from sure that music like i know it's just such a big thing in america um it just really isn't here and i i love johnny cash but that's about it and that's where it kind begins and ends for me um as far as that genre so whatever that was communicating through

those musical scenes i wasn't really picking up what it's putting down with that jake grew up and grew up in Arizona. I grew up in Berda. You know, so we were both exposed to a good chunk of it. Yeah. My favorite band's bright eyes. They do a lot of country adjacent stuff, folk music. Nice.

So. I love folk, but I don't know. The specific music just wasn't speaking to me. Communicating something to me important. Yeah, I get that. I mean, I think that there are ups and downs with, the quality of the songs. And I think that's what's cool about it too because it's like, yeah, not, they can't all

be like interesting songs. I do think like Ronnie Blakely is like a genuine musical artist and she was cast in this movie, you know, after the fact. And I think what's amazing about her performance is that she is like one of the best people in this movie, in my opinion, the whole sequence where she has that breakdown during her performance. She keeps going on about her mama and her grandma and, you know, it goes on these tans. That was all her.

She wrote all of that. You know, Altbin was just like, yeah, you write all this stuff and we'll figure it out. And her songs, I think, are really good. But yeah, some of the others are not so much. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, that's a huge barrier of entry for sure. If you just can't stand the twang of country music and the kitsch of the 70s and like, It's Yeah, you're just

It's not going to be a fun time You know Best song Yeah Go get a go go It's good It's good What's funny

I think the worst songs in the movie Are in the grand old opera scene Which is Kind of funny Because it is like that commercialized Like go get a goo goo And like It feels the most fake

And like the most Like safe of the of the song you know for the sake of the children we must say yeah but there still is like a level of like standardized production to it that it's not it's not terrible for sure but i like kind of viewing that in terms of like its character within the film yes yeah absolutely it reveals their characters too uh somewhat um i think um yeah again ronnie blakley as barber jean has the best songs and And Keith Garrotin brings in those amazing. I love I'm Easy.

I think that's a really like solid song, not really country, but more folksy. And then it don't worry me, which reappears throughout the movie and then is like the finale. Yeah. I mean, it's music. I don't know what else to say. Yeah, I think even just having this conversation with you will make this better on a second watch. But I would like to check out some of Altman's other stuff for sure. I'm intrigued by that Western you mentioned.

Macabin Mrs. Miller. Yeah. Speaking of music, that's all Leonard Cohen songs throughout. Oh, cool. It is the soundtrack. It is fantastic. If you like Leonard Cohen, you know. Yeah, yeah, I do.

That's more up Miami, I think. Lenny C. I think you like it. Yeah. Yeah, but thanks for watching, guys. I mean, I love this movie. I was curious what you guys would think, because Altman is different, yeah.

And this is one of his, like, most, like, fuck it. Let's try it. Let's just throw everything out there kind of movies. Yeah, so. Well, thanks for the recommendation. Fun fact. Yeah. I got diagnosed with ADHD about an hour before starting this movie.

Really? Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Apparently, I've been living that. Did that? Did that? And other stuff.

Did that impact your viewing experience? It made me feel less upset about not following everything. It made it feel less my fault. So anybody that calls me out for missing something in a movie, you're ablest. Sorry. Yeah. And you always have been.

Six out of ten. Hi, six. I'd see it again for sure. um cool really enjoyed the uh the way it was put together but felt detached for a good chunk of it yeah just kind of observing yeah i'm man i'm actually slightly lower even um go ahead lay it on me i can handle it i can handle it this is a five for me um oh i i i appreciate it more than i like it I just for the whole time was feeling like I just feel like I'm missing something like all the technical I'm at the performances are here but I just felt like it was at an arm's length from me.

I want more of that political angle. Maybe my expectations were just out of whack. Yeah, I don't know. Being not familiar with that style, I found it quite difficult to get through at certain points, especially with my feelings on country music as well. So yeah, maybe if I give it a few years, I have a feeling some of these scenes. might stick with me, some of these moments might. Yeah.

So, yeah, we'll see. Totally fair. Yeah, it's good to pop a director cherry also for me. I'd never seen... Gross. An oldman. But somebody's got to pop your cool cat cherry someday, right? Yeah, I wouldn't phrase it like that, but...

No, you wouldn't? Okay. Yeah. You were saying the other episode when you're trying to get you to watch Colquette. We were saying like, oh, just put it on for your friends. And you said something like that your friends aren't online enough. I've been thinking about that.

Jake, are you a normie? Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't bring this up. I'm not addressing the allegations. I started thinking about it like you're married, you have a child. Yeah. Your friends aren't online. I'm starting to think you might be a normie. I don't have a depressing enough life, I guess.

I don't know. I need to change that. It's okay. We'll make you feel like a fucking freak on this podcast. You guys already do, and I love you for it. No, I think that to get seriously about the question, I am the freak of my family and friends, I guess. But they think people think I'm a lot more normal than I am and I think that's that's what's off putting about me, you know?

There's like something grim and terrifying under the surface. Sinister. That people won't know about until the documentaries are made years from now. You're masking. It's scary, man. Yes. Okay, cool. What was, I don't think you said you were writing, Jake, did you?

Oh, 10 out of 10. Yeah. That was like, did he even need to say that? I'm on. Yeah. I'd be like, um, low seven. Yeah. What, um, poaches do you have?

What was that? Um, your dogs. Hearing them in the background earlier, what, what dogs do you have? Oh, um. What breed are there, I mean? They're, they're all, they're all mutts. Um, their one is, uh, she, our first dog we got, she's like a little white chihuahua mix, um, from Korea, South Korea.

Not North Korea, that'd be crazy. But yeah, no, we rescued here from Korea. Yeah, and then our second dog buddy we got when we were living in L.A., he was a street dog. He's like a little scrappy, brown terrier, super cute. And our third dog is from India, who we rescued a couple years ago. And his name is Babu. He's white and kind of like a little, little. bigger than the others but um yeah they're all they're a crazy little bunch they're all very

cute damn you got three dogs and a baby three dogs and a baby that's wild sorry three dogs and a baby yeah yeah damn that sounds like that's why i never it's why i never travel anywhere yeah yeah it's a process yeah well just get invite one more person into the marriage do go I mean, if you're open to it, I guess. Sure. I could use a U.S. citizenship. Oh, you don't want that. Well, then they won't send me to the camp, though.

They, yeah, no. I mean, our kid is, he's, you know, almost four months. He's pretty independent. So we just kind of like let him do whatever. Yeah, it's a good strat. All right, question. Yeah, question. Okay, let's do some questions from the Saldoncast community.

Head over to the suggestion thread over on the subreddit for future episodes. Let's start with this one from Lepa Zero One. Recently, there have been a pretty big drama on social media about people using AI to create memes and art in the studio, Jibli style. What do you guys' thoughts about that controversy? I saw your video, Jake, on this kind of mocking this, um, this nonsense. I'm just shocked that it's a topic of conversation at this moment because I thought that was a thing that people were doing like two years ago Because that's when I saw it on Twitter. I thought we were past the really oh, it can do Ghibli Like I thought we were well-

I don't remember at this scale. I don't know if it was like I'm just on Twitter From the like maybe I don't see it. Yeah, maybe It was like everywhere and I think the wildest one was just that a white house tweet. I think oh my god Oh, that's disgusting, yeah. That was actually, like, what the fuck is going on? It's dystopian. Yeah. I don't know.

Just get used to it. Yeah, it is really grim. Yeah. I think, like, for me, seeing, like, all of these memes circulated, like, I do get the impulse of the normies, like, seeing something like this, like, treating it like an Instagram filter, but it's not really, that's not really it, you know? And there's so much of the discourse and what people are pissed about is like, okay, this is a system that's stealing images and making this fake shit. And it's kind of like, you know, stupid and a waste of time, a waste of resources.

And most people kind of hate it or don't really care or think about it except for there are a group of people growing who are like, if you're mad about this, you hate fun, you're lame. You know, if you, and that's what's disappointing to me, and I feel this trend growing with AI and generative images and stuff like that, is that there's a growing sense of apathy, but also you can tell, like, these big corporations are really pushing the message of, like, this is reality, deal with it. If you hate this, you hate fun. Like, at least even in my YouTube comments. I don't know if that's purely corporate, though.

Maybe not. It might not be purely corporate, but just from like, because I've been talking about this in like skit form, you know, for the past couple years because, yeah, this is a thing that keeps coming up all the time. Video tweets. Lately, that's a good way to put what I do actually. But like, I just see more and more of the sentiment of like, yeah, like, let's just deal with, like, let's, it's not a big deal anymore or whatever.

And then a lot of people who are like, this is not art, blah, blah. Like, it's, I think a lot of the anger is that there's lots of people who are like, this is art and artists can suck it, you know, like, as my goals. I don't understand the sentiment. Yeah, of like, you guys need to work at, you guys are like the rest of us. And it's like, I never understood that. Like, do people think artists are like all millionaires?

Like, people who illustrate and draw, like, they're already working at McDonald's, you know? Like, I get, yeah. This one, this has been going on for a while, but man, something about this one was like, kind of getting to me. I saw people making the point that it was like, oh, so people, they changed their profile picture to be South Park characters, their own version of, like, them as a South Park character. And I'm saying, man, it's kind of missing the point, right? Like, the whole gag of South Park is how, like, shitty looking at is. And what studio Ghibli kind of represents? I think about that shot in The Wind Rises that, like, took a year to animate type.

thing and just that like sobering reality of a oh like I guess that's straight where this technology is gone is so we can just generate like scenes like that um trained off of these beautiful films where every single every single frame is like this amazing bit of artwork um and yeah there is something that kind of deeply sad about that to me um and just how frivolous and how people just don't seem to value it uh and then yeah how it's used on Twitter or whatever It's just so depressing to me. Yeah, well, so I'm kind of like in the middle, I guess, because in this instance, I do very much see it akin to something like a Snapchat filter.

People are just like, do this image, but in this style sort of thing, right? Like, I think that the more important conversation about AI is like whether or not it would be replacing, like an actual film, right? Like, I don't really, I don't really care as much about like if people want to make a single image in style of something in a way where they didn't draw it and they just click the button and it happened, right? I'm not as concerned about that, but in terms of like, you know, actual filmmaking, yes, we would be losing something if we were using, especially current today's technology,

especially. But overall, if we were using AI to generate the next Miyazaki film, obviously, yes, we would be losing something and I would argue against that. But then there's also the argument of like, I don't know, a lot of the issues that I have with that are kind of already present in other things without AI even existing, right? So if we were to look at like computer animation completely independent of AI, a lot of the best computer animation is done when animators have enough money and creative control and time to properly produce a project in a way where they're not just doing this.

the entire thing essentially procedurally. Because procedural effects exist in animation that are not AI, but things like keyframes, right? So when you have a pose and a B pose, you know, you can let the computer fill in the gaps between A pose and B pose, or if you're an artist that is talented and has enough money and time to work on your project and is being compensated fairly enough in a positive environment, you can make the difference between the A pose and the B pose really interesting. You can give it more character, right? You can give it more life and more personality, the human element, right?

So I think that a lot of the things that I think are bad about AI that I think are concerning are already kind of issues that I'm like arguing against. But I don't know. I think it just comes down to whether or not the general public either A cares about those things or B is perceptive enough to actually care about those things when it comes down to it. Right? So it's a complicated conversation for me, I guess. Yeah, I don't think they are perceptive towards it.

Yeah. Broadly, I think people just want to, as they're like, oh, this is a fun filter. And I guess where it bothers me most is like some of these images are, I don't know, if you showed me it and didn't tell me that it was generated by AI. might assume that oh this is actually like decently drawn or whatever like because it's obviously trained off all of this great art and we're at a point where oh it's not the the hands are all fucked up and the faces are scary and it's Will Smith sucking up this fucked up spaghetti it's like actually hell yeah oh the like the die is cast like what so in two years we can just generate like just any 2d

animation like we want if you've got the the energy and the credits or whatever and the subscriptions to these AI companies in order to do it I think that's sucks. I hate that shit. That's sad to me. I think what pisses me off the most is that it is like it wouldn't be possible if they weren't stealing and cataloging all of this stuff that they don't own. And the reason why they're allowed to do it is because they did it really fast before any kind of laws could be made. I mean, and now they're powerful enough, you know, that laws probably will never be made, you know. Oh, yeah. And they're lobbying government anyway. Exactly, you know, that, or they'll probably find some laws to do it so that only they can do it.

And the others, like, like, what is this open AI or whatever, you know, bullshit? Like, trying to capitalize on creativity and try to, like, own everything and not make it about, not make art like something that is produced, but something that is just kind of owned and recreated and redeemed. generated. Yeah. Like I, the point, the fact that AI has gotten to the point where like, it's hard to tell if something is AI or not just shows like that the level of theft is so powerful. You know, like the technology is interesting. And I think that it's, there could be some good use to it.

But, you know, the way it's treated now and the way that it's kind of like the attitude in the culture is it's like, yeah, who, the. Art is just a product. It's not a something that is made. It's just something you consume. I guess that's what I really hate about it. I mean, again, we're talking about issues that are just, like,

so already hyper-present within the things that we watch already. Like, that's the state of the film industry, regardless of whether or not AI is being used, you know? Like, people in general will complain about AI, but then watch Inside Out too and go, it was great. It's like, okay, well, this might as well have been written by Chat-GPT.

it might as well have been animated by chat gbt right like entirely soulless movies where the human element is nowhere to be found and yet they're allegedly not using AI right so um i think that i'm also i'm gonna this might piss you off i'm sorry i'm on the fence a little about like the idea of it being theft because i feel like the way that our our minds work like human minds work like we're all working from a base of other our arts existing, right? So even though it's there's more of a human element and there's more talent and there's more, you know, there's something more admirable about a human being, you know, drawing on a tablet or a piece of paper or however they manually create their art, you know,

no one's saying that you shouldn't be able to make something in the style of Jibley if it's not AI, right? Like every single fucking lion furry has a fursona that looks like it's in the style of the Lion King, right? So I want to be careful to not have a huge portion of the population accidentally arguing in favor of, like, more restrictive copyright, because that's a world I don't want to live in. I do wish it was applied equally in terms of like, you know, if corporate interests like AI technology are able to utilize these things in ways that, you know, might otherwise be considered copyright infringement, I feel like the average person. should be allowed to do that too.

Maybe that's a conversation that can be had. It's a tricky conversation because, you know, you don't want to completely abolish copyright. You want to be, you want to have some form of protection for actual artists, you know, from larger corporations. But I don't know.

This is just, this is one of those things where like, if someone were to create the exact same thing, but it wasn't AI, would we consider it theft if they had, if they had, you know, said like,

oh yeah, my inspirations, was Studio Ghibli. I'm doing a Studio Ghibli style. Or if their inspiration was several other artists combined, if it was 20 different artists and the end result was something that appeared new, but you could see the inspirations, right? Like, we could say that about something like the substance, you know, like there's so many different things that Coralie Farge lifted from. Literally every artist that ever exists, every conversation that ever exists. Like, we're all products of things existing before us and we are only able to produce information that is a

combination of things that we've already been exposed to, right? You know, like, that's why everybody's experience with art is different. It's because it's made up of their own. Right now, we're just at a weird point where, you know, the algorithm and machine can be fed more information than a human can possibly be fed in their lifetimes. And as of right now, they're doing it in a worse way. but I don't know. I'm still not entirely sold on like calling it theft or definitively in that way. On the ethical side of it, I'm not entirely anti-AI. I see the arguments and I see the concerns, but I'm just like, yeah.

Yeah, I agree, you kind of philosophically with what you're saying about how brains and we process information. but as far as how it relates to AI in its corporate form right now, I don't know, I do feel stronger about it because while I didn't like something like Inside Out 2, and that's like a common critique we brought up over the years or whatever, that it feels AI generated or it's uninspired. I still feel like the tech at Pixar and like the stuff they're doing there is, I mean, it's still aren't,

they've still got really talented animators there that I don't know. I don't really love what bigs I've been doing, but I still think the animation is still solid and they're doing something and they are doing something artistic and the, I don't know, the interception of this corporate. I don't know about that. I just think it's a very,

I just think it's a very reductive way to think about human creativity is just say like, oh, we're taking in information and reworking it and then producing, something different out of it, you know, kind of like an AI works. I think that it's far more complex and mysterious than that. And I think that we have no idea how we work artistically, how creativity works in our brains. And I think to say that, oh, it's just the same type of thing is exactly what these corporations, you know, who own these massive databases want people to think. And it's like, oh, you're just like the AI. You're just taking in information and spitting.

and farting it out, you know, into some outmalamation of something that's already been done before. And I think that's completely different from like human creativity. And I just, I find it really wrong. I don't know. I feel like, I feel like the big difference is in terms of like how transparently it's being done, right? Or how blatantly something is being done. Because if we look at there, I mean, I gave an example like inside out too or like there's plenty of like terrible student films where it's like, okay, you watched one Scorsese film, right? And you like suits and guns sort of things. Like, there's a lot of bad things being created where I look at it and I go like, okay, that might as well be AI. But you're right that, you know, great art, the things that I

frequently promote on this channel made by real human voices, the things that I'm actually passionate about and not, you know, factory slop. That is more complex. I agree. And I understand the kind of the desire to almost kind of like romanticize the way that we use our brains right but I don't know maybe I'm just kind of looking at things in more of a robotic

literal artistic sense but you know we does we literally design computers after the way our brains work right yeah I just don't think it's romantic perception of like to view creativity that way I think we just don't know I really think that it like our brains and AI are nowhere near the same level still you know and I

think that's why even calling it AI is kind of funny because it's like we don't know how our fucking brains work we don't know how human creativity works but yet we're calling this artificial intelligence it's not it's it's more of a marketing term like it is like like what it's doing is I think fundamentally different from what a human brain can do even if it's making even if the human brain is a hack and it's making bullshit that is derivative, I think that has way more value than anything. AI is spitting out just because it is throwing together stuff that literally it just, like algorithmically is just trying to piece together something that has already been done before.

I agree with you. There's more value in human art and creativity. Here's a weird question. Do you believe in free will? I have no idea. I personally don't. Because I don't. And that might be what's like kind of guiding my understanding of like the human brain, right?

Like I don't know that anything exists outside of my own brain. The way that I experience life and the way that I understand other people experience life is, you know, you get in information and information goes out. And although you do make decisions, right, those decisions are entirely based off of what information you have to work with, your genetics, you're, you know, up. upbringing nature plus nurture, right? All of these different environmental factors. Nature is nurture. You know, we're all just like a bunch of chemicals swimming around in an ocean of different gases and liquids, like air, you know. But at the end of the day, we're all just literally just kind of observing what's happening. And we're making decisions or we believe we're making decisions or are, you know, based evolutionarily off of what makes the most sense to survive. We convince

ourselves we're making decisions, but, you know, statistically you look at people in certain predisposed factors of, you know, how people are raised or what environments there in. Like, you can start to see people more as like statistics in that way, right? Like, sure, we're individuals. We experience life as individuals, but at the same time, like, I don't believe in free will. I don't believe in free will. And so that's maybe why I think that it's possible for in the future something like real artificial intelligence, which we're not at yet. But I think that it is possible for that to be achieved. And, you know, if we're going to go philosophical about it, like, I don't know if I would consider there to be any difference in terms of like an artificial brain versus

like a human brain if their experience is the same. And then it's like, okay, well, how do we know they have a real experience? How do I know any human being has a real experience? The only real experience I know is my own, right? So maybe that's what's guiding my understanding and philosophy of AI, but certainly I would like to express to the people listening, because this is a very contentious conversation I know. There's nothing malicious about my perspective. You know, I am pro-artist, and I would also like to repeat that many of the issues that I agree are real issues with AI and the corporate interests fueling AI. To me, are issues against capitalism and they are issues that, you know, like if people care about this and I

hope that they should, we should be championing things like universal basic income, right? I don't believe that, you know, you should have to work to survive, right? I believe that people should be free to pursue their passions and interests and art and creativity, you know, and not have to choose that or making money to survive, right? Like, that, that, that's, that, that's, you know, That's my philosophy. So I'm on your side about it, everybody. I'm just like, it's a different philosophical understanding of like what's happening, I guess. Yeah, that's where it gets fucked up for me is the corporate aspect of it.

Because yeah, you give them an inch of the token. If this was a case of like, we found some kind of super intelligence that's different from us on Mars or something. And then this thing we'd found was able to do this. I feel like the philosophical implications would be kind of more intriguing or interesting. but the fact it is so built into like big tech and the stock market and this corporate thing. And it's like you know exactly where that is going. So I feel like the protest against that is really where my mind goes. Even though I do agree in certain ways about the free will stuff.

And I don't know. It gets really really deep. Man. If I am to see AI being used in art, I would prefer it to be in a way where it helped an artist create what they wanted to make. not in a way that is replacing artists, right? I think I've been pretty consistent on that, so. Yeah, baby invasion. Baby invasion.

Well, I think we just touched on every single topic, you know? Are there any of the hot button important? I mean, we touched philosophy, capitalism, free will. It's a complicated conversation. And the person who told me that I have ADHD said that they think I have autism, but they're not allowed to, they're not allowed to visually diagnose that. But so, you know. I think that it's fascinating.

I think on the side of free will, I would say, like, in general, like on the large, like, macro levels, humans tend to, yeah, like, bend to their circumstances and are, I think I'm a materialist and I see things, you know, these forces at play, you know, bending us in certain directions. But I think on an individual level, we're capable of free will. And I don't know how that impacts my perspective of. of AI, but I do think that there is a lot of marketing and money put on to this idea of like, yeah, it's just like how our brains work. And I, I kind of want to push back against that. I think that there's a little more to our humanity, you know. I don't know if I've seen that like in a commercial or anything. Are you saying that it's like kind of like an astroturfing sort of thing? Yeah, I do think there is some of that. But I think that just in general, the trend has been

towards that direction of just trying to normalize this technology and equate it to human beings. I think that it would be less worrisome if people were like, yeah, this is a tool that can be like there are people who are way more normal about it. But there are lots of people who are just like, yeah, this is the future. Our creativity is kind of like what is art? Like what is the point of art? You know, if we have this anyways, we could go on and on about this. Yeah, yeah. You know, so if we're in a future in 10 years from now, which we very well might be, where Marvel movies, all the fucking studio slop that is killing theaters or whatever,

if all of that is just like no more artists and it's just AI generated, I'm going to be in the same boat where I'm going to be saying, hey, don't watch those movies, and I'm probably going to be protesting against even buying a ticket. And I'm going to be here supporting real artists like Charlie, Kaufman. It's not going to affect me really, like, unless it, like, literally kills theaters or something and then I have nowhere to see TIF, but that's already happening, right? So that's also maybe part of what's, like, guiding my, I guess, general apathy about it is, like, I'm still going to be here supporting human artists that I love and connect with. Like, you, it's, it's the people

that are watching things that might as well be AI generated right now that have to worry about their art being changed. But if they're watching that in the first place, they might not notice. So I don't know. I guess I'm just scared of it devaluing it to a point where it's more difficult to make your own. I don't see that. It's devalued like culturally to such a degree where like if you want to make your film, which is already difficult. I don't know.

I think there's always going to be a thirst for human art. I think there's always going to be a thirst for a human voice. Right? As long as there's people like me and you and, you know, people that. I mean, I hope so. actually care about these things, right? Which I think there's, there's a good amount of those, right? Like, even if it, if it's like a cult thing. There's a good amount. Yeah, but a lot of people that a lot of people don't even think about the stuff at all. It's just like passive, like

thoughtless, okay, this is kind of cool, like whatever. Or I just think about the little kids or whatever who are like watching shit online and being like, oh, why would I spend time drawing? Like I was drawing the other, why would I do that? I was just like put it into chat GPT and I'll get something that's way better in thinking about art as a product rather than a process. And I can totally see that happening already, you know. Oh, yeah. I mean, what is the entirety of the fucking YouTube content creator demographic now, right? Like, it used to be people expressing themselves, like literally every single fucking channel

on this fucking platform is just people trying to make money, right? So again, these issues are just, they're, they're, it's a microcosm of other issues that, to exist regardless of whether or not it's AI, I guess. Yeah, for sure. Anyway, good conversation, healthy debate. Thank you. Wow. It's a lot. That was.

Should I just throw one quick, light-hearted one to... You can do two more if you want. Get that. I don't care. Yeah, yeah. Average rock players is for Jake, you're the only one of the group who doesn't have a first owner. What would your first owner be? Hell yeah.

Jesus Christ. I guess I'm Alex the Lion. officially I thought we were doing a light topic okay if you don't choose one we're assigning one for you just assign me one fuck it

no choose one shit I shouldn't have said that I don't know I have no idea what would it I don't even know like what I would I have no clue no conception do you like do you like big

Tonkin animals that could kill you or do you like kind of like critters? Critters. I like I like I like orangutans. Hell yeah. Oh shit. Damn. Well, I guess you're an orangutan. I love orangutans.

Do you feel like an orangutan? They really fucked up that spelling. Yeah. Yeah, it's confusing. They need a... I think I'm not my favorite animal. They are awesome. Do you feel?

like one. No, I don't. You know what I feel like is a piece of shit and you should be a muskrat? Yeah, that's fine muskrat. I mean what's that what's that like animal that Seth Rogan plays in the Lion King? A wardhog? Yeah, I'm like a warthog, I think. Based, okay, cool. Yeah, I connect to that. Fine. Mecca mecha has this one then. If A-24 open to theme park what attractions would you want to see there um i'm thinking the uh generational trauma ferris wheel a good place to start yeah they should have a roller coaster where in the ride they have a convincing animatronic that looks like a real person but they stick their head out and their head gets chopped off oh yeah i like that it's not a real person but it's so convincing that it just

traumatizes you i like that i like Alex your idea of the generational the generational the generational trauma Ferris wheel because it's a circle you know and it just never stops it's just

never go for you no I'd like to see what I guess everything everywhere all at once that'd probably be a fun ride right

a green room immersive experience I don't know what you'd do about it like what do you even do with it I would rather have an A24

like real life art exhibit has anybody ever been to Alex, did I take you to Omega Mart in Vegas? No, we were going to go there, but we didn't. Some reason it's, yeah, it's like an interactive, like, art experience sort of thing. I've seen videos on it.

It looks really cool and weird. And it's not quite a museum, right? But it's like a weird, trippy, like, oh, I'm like in a different world, almost kind of like a larping thing. And everything that exists in the environment is, you know, something that is just fun to look at or interactable. Like, I would rather that for an A-24 experience, you know? Hmm.

You don't want to be put on an island and have a Willem Defoe, someone dressed up as Willem de Foe, like screaming at you, huh? The Bridalist ride where everything's just upside down. Block it. And then somebody spoilers you. Somebody, no, no, no, no. when you had too much opium. Uh-huh.

Yeah. Great ideas. No bad ideas here. Yeah. There's some depressing-ass films in that now, huh? Zone of interest ride. Oh, God. Oh, Jesus.

Okay. It's a train. Yeah, let's stop before we get canceled here. I'm never getting canceled, except for that conversation about AI that I just had. And every other time. Yeah. Except for. One conversation we have once a week.

Yeah, except for every single, yeah. I'm perma canceled to Twitter, film Twitter, I guess. That's what we love about. Not for harming a human being or scamming someone or doing something. Just having opinions. Yeah.

Experiencing life in a neurodivergent way, which is now clinically proven. You guys are fucking able as pieces of shit. All right. I'm doing for one more question. Yeah. Okay, let me grab a nice one to end on. Lenny Laser Discs says, are there any film topics that you find boring to discuss?

Examples like box office return, Disney remakes, AI, etc. Just curious if there are any topics that feel like a jaw. This question, loser. I shouldn't say. I was going to say, I was going to say, you know, when people just harp on the sound design specifics of specific scenes. But no, I find that interesting, actually. Good.

Sort of. A little bit. Sometimes. See, here's the thing. Again, with like your conversation on Nashville, if I'm not into something, I still like hearing someone nerd out about it and understand why they enjoy it. Yes.

I'd rather have someone go like a little, what's the word, autistic. Psychotic. Okay. Okay. I was not equating those. No, there's a word close. There was a word close to autism.

What's the hyperfixated? I like to see people express and talk about their hyper fixations, which if you're following my YouTube channel, you probably do too, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's a fun thing. And you don't have to like connect with it personally yourself. And you might discover something that you didn't do.

to think about before just by hearing someone that's passionate about it, talk about it. Yeah. No, that's true. I mean, I don't, there's not really any specific film topic, I guess, that, that, like, bores me because, yeah, if someone's speaking passionately about it, then I, like, I was just watching the other day, uh, Inland Empire. Some person put up a video talking about the transfer process that Criterion did for Inland Empire and how it, it was really weird because they did like AI upscale.

but then they had to like make it look bad again in a different way because it was shot on like shitty early video and like I was like this is so fucking interesting um but I won't care about it tomorrow you know yeah yeah I love that kind of thing too and there isn't anything specific about films themselves especially when you're talking about the technicalities or the details behind the scenes whatever um it's more like the meta commentary bullshit that people like yeah that's just gone worse like over the decades the culture weaponizing. Yeah, the culture war stuff and weaponizing films like we were just saying about Snow White and all this whole shit. So it's so predictable at this point. Yeah. That is tiring and just like, oh, so this is. It is kind of getting boring, isn't it? Yeah, especially because it's like the biggest kind of talking points about film in culture. It's mostly just like what is upsetting people regarding cultural stuff and how it's linked to it. So just like. You know, it clicks really well with people that don't watch a lot of movies. Yeah, like Pierce Morgan's favorite YouTuber is the critical drinker, right? Or at least for movie recommendations. Really? Yeah. Remember what he got him on to talk about that British, that other British show? Yeah, baby reindeer.

Yeah, and that was bizarre. And he said like literally fucking nothing about it the entire time. And it's like, Pierce, I don't know what you were expecting here. Wait, wait, Pierce Morgan has collaborated with the critical drinker. Oh, you didn't know. He loves him. No. He's brought on the critical drinker.

Drinker and I think like nerd Rotic and sometimes because obviously Pierce Morgan is like a culture war guy. You know, now that movies are part of the culture war thing, you know, there'll be a big movie. Baby Raneer. What's getting clicks right now? We're going to talk about this controversy. And then he'll bring on Critical Drinker and nerd Rotic and maybe another guy. Like he should bring on heels versus baby face and the parasite guy. He should bring on the parasite cringe guy.

That'd be good. Squad. squad goals. Why are there so many shitty movie, movie channels? It seems like the biggest movie channels are also the culture war channels. It's just really I'm notious.

It appeals to people that don't really that don't really delve into films in a way where they can discover things. It's just, what is the thing being talked about right now? You know? It appeals to people that

don't really want to watch things outside of their comfort zone, which is most people. Well, it's also like in line with what I noticed, like, doing the movie channel because I've been doing like the movie channel with Nadia less than I've been doing like our main channel. So, but what I noticed too is like, oh, the views go up when we watch something no one wants to fucking watch that's like Snow White, you know, people just want to hear about, oh, how shitty it is or there's a kind of stuff or whatever. Yeah.

There's a conversation going on, you know, we go see something like Mickey Sussie. 17, it's not as big of a deal, you know. So it's kind of frustrating because, like, part of you, like, we try not to think that way about, like, going to see these movies, but also you're like, yeah, people want to know what we think about this because they'd rather watch us talk about it, and then go see it themselves, you know, which maybe that's, like, doing some kind of a service then, you know, so they don't have to see snow white. You're partly right.

Some of it is for, you know, oh, I want to hear someone talk about this instead of watching it. But the only reason they want to hear you talk about it instead of watching it already is because they know about it and because it's a big thing, which is the larger factor is that it's a, it's a movie being talked about regardless of whether or not they think it's bad. It's, you know, people will click on videos. They're more likely to if it's a good film that's also being talked about. I think our lowest viewed episode of the podcast is still, uh, when we talked about waking life and Mars Express in the same episode. Two incredible. animated films that Alex and I were just like absolutely raving about being like everybody go see this

you'll be doing yourself a favor nobody fucking clicked on it so the strat which we have to keep in mind if there's things that we really do want people to see the strat is to pair them with other popular movies right so people click on it and then they watch the video and go like oh there's a better movie than people haven't heard about right then we're kind of doing our jobs better i think I gotta balance it, yeah, which perfectly kind of leads into my wreck. Oh, shit. Good segment. Oh, there we go.

We've been doing too many good movies. Is this your spicy wild card? No, that was only one I was going to whip out because we've been recordings quite close together. So I just thought, oh, this is kind of a shorter one we could do. No worries. Give us a bad one. It's April 1st. I don't care.

All this talk of dream works and bullshit. I'm not going to do Marigabell. But I was looking through some great DreamWorks movies you guys haven't seen Maybe you have but just haven't rated on letterbox but I want to do B movie Fuck you Yeah, let's do you Fuck you I'm sorry

I'm sorry Fuck you I had gone through my entire life not seeing B movie Yeah, you haven't seen it I literally haven't seen it I literally haven't seen it I never wanted to. Oh my God. This is like,

this is so post meme that it's like becoming. Yeah. I feel like it's. No. It's not even becoming funny again. It feels like an eternity again. Should we pair it with the Pop-Tart movie? I mean,

I don't know. No. Yeah, you saw it unfrosted, right? I did. I did not. I did not watch that. I did.

I'm excited for this. B-movie. B-movie. Yeah. I'm sure. I'm sure. our viewers will be excited for me to watch it as well. Yes.

Sorry, no further. Jerry didn't want to hear your stupid voice again, but here we go. If you don't want to be spoiled for B-movie, 2007, watch it before the next episode comes out. These episodes come out every two weeks. You can listen to them early by going to sardinacast.com. Sign up for premium. It's only $2 a month.

I just realize you're making me talk about B-movie on my birthday we're recording on my birthday you're making me talk about B-movie on my birthday It's fate Yeah it's a little present to you Watch this before the next episode comes out You can on the YouTube members

You can click that You get the episodes early It's cheap You support the show support our good conversations where we don't all have the same opinion anymore. Right. Is that crazy? We've made improvements, guys.

We were listening. I know. We were. Give us your money. Right? There's three of us now. We got more bills to pay. And we all hate each other now.

We argue. He's got a baby. You're going to let the baby starve. And three dogs. Three dogs and a baby. Yeah, guys. You know, my entire income is reliant on. this podcast. That's how we have so much control over you. My kid has two jobs. Yeah.

That's how, as an employer, that's how I like my employees to be without any other options and desperate. Desperate. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, this is good. This is good. And you know, maybe next time I'll recommend some some bad movies too so that we can bring up that engagement, you know. I was actually thinking about that the other day. I was like, when will Jake recommend a funny bad movie or maybe just a bad, bad movie? You know what it is, though? Because I was thinking about this too. Like, I need to recommend something like a little more like bad and shitty and fun we can make fun of.

But I was thinking like, you know, I've been watching and parisocially, because I used to be a viewer of this podcast. Not anymore now that I'm on it and it's trash now. But, you know, I get that like experience of being like, I can make these guys watch. the movies I want to watch now. It's powerful. So I'm like, you know what? They're getting to watch Nashville. I'm going to make them watch two and a half hours of, you know, country western music and, but I'm getting it out of my system, you know, maybe there's a couple more like all timers I need to force you guys to watch, but then I'm recommending the Pop-Tart movie. So not really. Something like that.

All right. We also got a Sardinacast Highlights channel. Check that out, I guess. whatever. Yeah. Subscribe, hit the bell, hit the bell in this channel. Thanks for listening. Everybody have a,

happy B-movie, happy Jerry Seinfeld, funniest best comedian, funny guy, funny man. Bye-bye. Have a bee kind of day. Bye-bye.

Make him say, bye-bye.