Sardonicast - Sardonicast 189: Sinners, Warfare, Thunderbolts*, Black Bag

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sardonicast.bsky.social Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Jake's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ManCarryingThing Jake's movie channel: https://www.youtube.com/@womancarryingman Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/yms.bsky.social Jake's twitter: https://x.com/ManCarrying Jake's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mancarryingthing.bsky.social Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Jake's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mancarryingthing Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Timestamps: 0:00 Intro + tariffs discussion 11:53 Warfare 29:20 Thunderbolts* 48:54 Black Bag 1:04:12 Sinners 1:49:42 Questions 2:17:19 Outro

Three, two, one. Ladies and gentlemen, we got him. That was a quote from the Iraq War, George W. Bush. Dude. I'm Adam from your movie, so this is a Sardonicast. I'm Alexander from H.E. Just for this one episode. Okay.

And, yeah, I was kind of, if I didn't have neighbors, I didn't want to intrude on. I would do like a scream like in warfare maybe. Like maybe to compliment your intro, but not for you today. It's more visceral than that. Okay. And I'm Jake from Man Caring Thing, and I don't have a quote from the Iraq War, but I will say, what are we, some kind of thunderbolts? Yes.

Oh, yeah. That's our new podcast name, actually. We're some kind of thunderbolts. with an asterisk to reveal an actual cooler name. Yeah. Yeah. I guess we'll get into that, huh? Yeah.

I saw the news. Jake, you had something you wanted to say? Oh, yeah, you know, I have a prepared statement to read to all of our viewers. It's not often that an institution, as hallowed and beloved as ours, gets a dynamic shift with a new podcast co-host. but I went on Reddit, which I try not to do, to see that there was a lot of positivity. And people were very warm and nice about me being here. So even though the podcast has drastically deteriorated my mental health as I'm currently attempting to watch all three human centipede films in the free time I have when I'm not raising my five-month-old son, I'm happy. I am happy to be a part of this.

And as one commenter pointed out, it's been very fun getting to know my co-hosts in real time on the podcast, you know, such as Alex from I Hate Everything and Adam. So I want to say thank you, you know, for for fostering this fun community free of drama and politics. I have a second message, though, I'd like to read. Is that okay? Yes. I'll say you're welcome. My second message is to the president of the United States. Mr. President, we movie fans will not be truffled with. I know a Canadian man who used to have long hair who will not stand for your shenanigans. He may be Canadian, but if I have to spend twice as much for a Park Chanwick box set or another such piece of physical media, I will not hesitate to unleash his fury. He theoretically could make January 6 look like a toddler's birthday party. Do not mess with people who pay $300 for a region-free 4K Blu-ray player such as myself.

We have no shame. We will not hesitate to speak our anger. Thank you. Woo! Preach. That was beautiful. Thank you. I'm not going to affirm those threats.

Oh. As I still sometimes go to the United States and I don't want to be deported to El Salvador. Gotcha. I'm not going to go out of the list. I'm going to keep things a little light, a little low, okay? Oh, well, yeah. This is in Minecraft. Sure, sure.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Why don't you mean? It seems like one of those things. So we're talking about the tariffs. Trump decided. Yeah. He tweeted, truth social.

He trothed. He trothed that he's doing a 100% tariff on all movies made outside the U.S. And it doesn't specify. In foreign lands. Yeah. It doesn't specify if he's talking about foreign ownership of films or American-owned films that were produced or filmed partly or wholly outside of the U.S. So, like, I think every movie is shot like a little bit in Vancouver or a little bit

somewhere outside. Like, you know, there's a good amount of movies that are shot only in the States. But, like, what percentage are we talking about? How is it going to be implemented? What part of the value are you going to be taxing or tariffing, right? Is it the movie ticket? how is this going to affect streaming services, right? Because that's a digital good that's supposed to be exempt from tariffs.

Is it going to affect the cost of production before the movie ticket? We don't know what the hell he's talking about. And it seems like it's going to be one of those things that probably isn't going to happen because he just wasn't thinking about how it would even work before he said it. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like, why? What are you talking about? Because in the last episode, right, we had the fake news about the China movies.

movie tariffs, which didn't turn out to be a thing, but now he's tweeting about his own country's tariffs for this. I just don't get, like, I guess it's just you have to filter through the stream of consciousness word babble that he just sprays out constantly. And it's like, what is even real? What is, like, going to be policy or not? I don't know. I have no clue. Supposedly, he had a meeting with his Hollywood friends, like, three weeks ago. So, like, Mel Gibson, and I'm not, this isn't a joke. This is real. Right. Mel Gibson, fucking, who's Angelina Jolie's dad again? John Voigt.

John Voigt. Megaloplas style. You fuck on me right now. No, no, no, it's true. But my understanding is they probably didn't suggest this, but they at least gave him some kind of like, here's an issue that needs to be addressed. There's a lot of foreign countries are providing tax subsidies. and so where we could be making money with films being filmed in the United States,

a lot of them are being filmed outside of the United States. So they probably didn't tell him tariff movies, but that's the only thing he knows how to do. So, of course, he's not going to provide tax incentives or tax breaks for American productions to stay in the country. Of course, he's not going to do that. He's just going to tariff, right? So they're probably just as surprised as we are.

Yeah, surely it's the literal inverse. he should be going after, right? Subsidies. Like, that's why a lot of films are shot in London or New Zealand or whatever. Yeah, that's exactly why they're doing it. So it's the easy solution. I love that he, in order to have the power, in order to be able to do tariffs like he is doing,

just through executive action, I love how he has to justify it as foreign films are a national security threat. That's terrifying that he keeps doing that. And a lot of people forget that that's his playbook is literally within that truth social post. He makes sure to include. This is a concerted effort by other countries and therefore a national security threat.

He always has to include that because otherwise legally it would have to go through Congress. He wouldn't be able to just unilaterally decide, oh, I get to choose what we tariff here and there. That's why with Canada, he said there was a fentanyl crisis, right? Even though Canada amounts to less than point. 1 of a percent less than 0.1 percent of the fentanyl going into the United States is from Canada, right? You look at how many fucking guns are coming into Canada from the U.S. Like every single time

there's gang violence in Toronto and it's like, oh, where did these guns come from? Oh, it's the United States. Therefore, should Canada be able to say like, oh, there's a national emergency, right? Also, more fentanyl comes into Canada from the U.S. than vice versa. Right? Like, it's, it's a stupid fucking argument. And if the United States of America wasn't so fucking cucked as a society, then someone would hold them accountable in some way, right? Someone would do fucking something because right now all you're saying is you're proving to the entire world and every Trump wannabe that shows up in the future. You're proving to them that there are no consequences for any kind of actions. And it doesn't matter. There's no checks and balances. There's no actual

laws, really. Like, it doesn't matter. You can just do something and then if you don't care, just say, I don't care and then no one's going to stop you. Okay, wow, that's a, what a cool fucking country you have. I think that's good for the most powerful, and richest country in the world to behave like that.

Yeah. Yeah, the most powerful military and the... Tom Cruise, your mission, if you choose to accept it. Yeah, it's pretty bad. It's not just pretty bad. This is beyond...

Yeah, it's annoying. But, I mean, the White House is already walking it back, you know. The White House is walking it back. Oh, the movie tariffs? Yeah, yeah. Like the official White House is like, oh, yeah, we're having meetings with the Hollywood to make a deal that that works, you know, because it felt very obvious that Trump just went on truth social and was like, John Voight told me that movies are a problem. So, you know, we got a tariff them. Wow, what a relief.

I feel so much better about the next three and a half years. That's so crazy. Yeah. The news cycle is already crazy, just default. And then, but like, how many months has it been already? I just can't keep track. You just bringing up that fentanyl thing. I'd already forgotten about that.

And it feels like years ago, even though it was like months. I think that he's been president only slightly longer than I've been on this podcast. Yeah. Oh, dude. It's insane. Like, you, if he's, if he needs to justify his policies by saying it's a national security threat, and then it clearly isn't and everybody has the numbers, right?

This isn't debatable how much fentanyl is going into the U.S. from Canada, right? It's not debatable. These are numbers that everybody agrees on, but Trump is just, I guess, exaggerating and pretending and saying, don't look at the numbers.

It's a lot. I swear, I swear. Did you hear the fucking press secretary? Was it the press secretary or somebody else that was saying in one of his cabinet meetings that that President Trump has saved 200 million American lives with the fentanyl seizures at the border. It's like, oh, wow, like,

literally fucking half the population of the United States would have died by now if it weren't for President Trump. Like, they can just use realistic numbers, you know? Like, why do you have to exaggerate? Speaking as an American living near the border, you know, it's, I mean, it used to be every other day. Some guy was walking up to me with like, hey, want some fentanyl, it'll kill you. And I'm like, no, go away. And usually. Adam was one of them, yeah, when he visited, you know, like, it's a concern. But now my life is saved and my son, it will be safe forever. Thank you, President Trump.

Yeah, thank you. Oh, shit. It's insane. There should be a moment where people say, oh, you just lied about this. So Congress should be doing this, not you. And then what do you do? Like, nobody's holding him to account in any way. Nobody's doing anything.

They're all just, everyone's just kind of fucking. chill with it. I'm doing something. I've been doing something. Oh. Watching movies. What are we talking about today? Hey. Do we

start with the Iraq War one? Let's keep it dark. Yeah, if you want to keep a dark and miserable and upsetting and intense and sad. What do you want? Do you want to start with Thunderbolts? Go for it. I don't give a shit. I'll shut up. I talked a lot already. No, let's do, let's do, yeah, let's do Civil War. Not Civil War.

Warfare. The better Alex Garland film, in my opinion. Yeah. Really, I think I prefer the other. No, I honestly loved this. I thought it was fucking awesome. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, I thought it was great.

So I'm, what's so funny is like every single Alex Garland film, he's kind of like Quentin Tarantino where people, you know, everybody has like a different favorite. True. Yeah. And he's still got the same voice. and you can tell it's him, but he's going for different things in different films of his. With Alex Garland films, my two favorites are the ones that people seem to think are his worst. Like, warfare and men are the ones that I like the most.

And people are like, oh, you're just trying to be contrarian or something. Like, I don't know. Right. Yeah, I fucked with this movie really hard. I would totally see it again. I'd buy it on Blu-ray. I think that it is, especially coming after Civil War that was trying to do so much with what it was trying to say. and kind of but not really and, you know, borderline deceptive marketing.

And again, Civil War, good movie. We can always trust Alex Garland to, at the very least, have really, really crisp, clean-looking cinematography, like, interesting framing, fantastic sound design. Like, those are consistent throughout his films. But to me, it really worked with this movie, Warfare. it didn't really have an opportunity to get bugged down by any sort of like plot contrivance or convenience or bad characters or anything like that because it wasn't focusing on those things story-wise at all. It's a movie that is all about his strengths, which is how it's presented, right? It's a movie that's all about the sound design. It's a movie that's all about the visuals.

It's a movie that's all about the visceral experience. And that's why I think it's just just incredible. I really like that. I mean, yeah, I still enjoyed it for all the things you just listed, but I just think it's different from Civil War. I think that was just a successful as far as what it's going for. And yeah, I just think Garland's just an interesting director all around. I think I'd actively dislike any of his movies. I think he's got quite a lot of range. People tend to lean towards this kind of sci-fi stuff, I think, as far as what they love from him. But man, yeah, I thought this was really intense and freaky and scary and the kind of detachment of it, the focus on

the environment and just the, man, it's relentless. It is. And you mention that sound. Some of the best sound design, you need to see this with the best speakers you can because it's genuinely incredible sound design. If this doesn't get a nom, I'd be very shocked. They would have to have forgotten that the movie came out by the Oscars, which might happen. Yeah.

But, you know. But I remember thinking that about Civil War. Well, not quite to this level, just because of the nature of it's like a elongated action scene almost. There's very little downtime in this movie, and it's very brisk. And, yeah, as you said, it's not really about characters at all. In fact, they all kind of just blend into this one unit, and it's so chaotic and frightening. And it's, yeah, it's not about characters. So it would be strange to take that approach anyway.

But, yeah, it's more this, oh, God, it's horrifying. The slice of what we see and the kind of before and after and the little touches to this atmosphere. fear is, I don't know, it's frightening. I find, like, war movies, like, to be some of the best horror movies for me as far as the way they affect me, because they are, they're often gruesome, intense, scary. And, yeah, what do you think, Joe? Yeah, I agree with you guys. I think it's really good movie.

It's just technically really excellent. I find it interesting the way people talk about the characters in the movie because it's, it's like they say there are no characters. I found it like the movie takes its time to really set up before the action happens. And I think those like tiny little things that the characters do say so much about them. And like all of them like there are characters. It's just very, very like minutely drawn like little details like that guy who like spits his water back into the into the water bottle. And the way his friend reacts isn't like getting pissed or anything.

He just like challengingly drinks. It's like it's so, it tells us so much about this group and who they are and how they cope with everything that I was like really invested in like all of these characters. I felt like they were pretty distinct. Did they have like any backstory? Did we learn anything about them? There are personalities? No, but I don't think that's what necessarily makes a character, you know. Yeah, there was enough sprinkled in there.

Yeah, there was stuff in there. I think it's important to note that it's not just Alex Garland's. movie, but it's Raymond Doza's movie. True. Of course. You always forget about the co-director. Yeah, who was on this mission. I think, you know, like, it's such an interesting experiment. And that's kind of where I stand with this, where I really enjoyed it. But ultimately, it's kind of like, an interesting exercise. I'm glad that they did it. It resulted in something really interesting. But it's like, what if we tried to recreate exactly from our memories, exactly how this mission went down. And what would that say? Like, trying to just depict it from the soldier's perspective.

And the way people have been arguing and debating the merits or the immorality of this film is fascinating and predictable, considering Alex Garland for some reason gets everybody angry. I don't really know what it is necessarily about him specifically. But this, even more so than civil war, which caused so much drama online in the discourse. But this movie, especially, people are saying that it's pro-war or it's glamorizing warfare. I couldn't disagree more. I felt like leaving this theater, I just felt devastated. And I felt like this movie depicted better than a lot of war movies, how useless and pointless warfare is, even though we aren't given the details of the mission. We aren't given the details of the politics in the background of the war.

You know, that's not really what the movie's trying to do. That'd be a different movie, you know, do you want, if you want that kind of movie, you get a filmmaker like Oliver Stone or something, you know. So I just thought that it achieved what it was trying to do very well. Yeah, strips are right back to just kind of like survival and it's barest warm at a certain point. Yeah. But yeah, what you said about this, it was weird, this reaction to this movie. Because it started before the film was even out and anyone had even seen it, like people were saying that it was confidently called.

it like propaganda and all of this. I don't know, which has just been like a growing problem when in film discussion for ages, the like depiction is endorsement crowd and just this whole thing. Do people get this upset about like a, what's it called the like Top Gun Maverick and stuff like that where it's like, I don't know. Maverick was like a different thing. I feel like maverick's more insidious because it doesn't even show you who they're fighting. Well, yeah, that's kind of what I'm getting at. It's like where, where is the, the line then for these people? Is it just as simple as

depicting something? Does anyone say that like full metal jacket is pro-war? Well, no. Okay. So the version of the film that they wanted was you have the same characters, but then you have Alex Garland appear from the

left side of the frame in the film just in the middle of the movie and just say to the audience, these guys are doing a bad thing and then leave and then the rest of the movie continues. That's what they wanted. In their defense, the people who I've seen talk about this are like, we want to see the Iraqis perspective and what they go to and everything. And I feel like, well, that's a different movie.

Like, you can make that movie and that's great and interesting. But this is clearly like they went in Ray Mendoza. They were trying to recreate what is like serving, doing this exact mission. And I feel like the movie does have moments where it lingers on the devastation. that the U.S. military has rot. I mean, the family that the house they take over. I mean, it's so apparent, you know, at least to me it was. I don't know.

Yeah, I love the depiction of that family and the way they were kind of almost sidelined in the same way that these people are getting out with that commentary they want. And then the little, like, touches of, like, when, I don't know how to, can you spoil a movie like this? It's like based on a real event that happened. I don't really know how to dance around. I guess we're going into spoiler territory. Because, I mean, I liked going into it blind.

Same. Even things that are based on real things, I think you can spoil. There's not much about this movie you can spoil other than, I guess, what it is. So spoiler talk, the movie is basically one big, unbroken scene and people screaming and being injured for half of it. Yeah. Yeah. I specifically, I guess, was getting at that, uh, that. the family. Yeah. And I just loved that touch of once the tanks had rolled out and they're just

the quiet and the contrast of like what you'd just been through and then them kind of like sneaking out of that room that they'd been like shoved into and were held down on those beds or whatever. And just that contrast was so like enlightening. And then the picture montage at the end with the showing them and their blurred faces and stuff. It's like that. That is in there. Yeah. I do agree. That is a movie I'd like to see. I guess like the civilian perspective. but that, yeah, would be a different movie entirely. And it's just not what it's about or going for. But yeah, I don't know.

I just find that whole depiction endorsement thing so strange and reductive because it's like that that is like a type of movie, like battleship, for example, where it's like, this is so like, what the fuck are we doing here? Never watched it. Act of Valor or even like the first Michael Bay Transformers movie in a way is like more propagandistic as far as like, Like, if you're talking about like military propaganda, then something like this.

American sniper. Yeah, American sniper is another good one. And I was even reading, like, as far as I say, how far does this go with Silence of the Lambs? I was reading that, like, the FBI gave them, like, access because in their minds, they were like, this might help recruit women and stuff like that. So it's like, how far do you want to go with this and like, when is it okay? When's it not? And, yeah, to me, that just was not an issue with the movie. It was more kind of like Jake was saying.

It does feel like an experiment, and I've been thinking about it since watching it, but not particularly deeply outside of the technical aspects. That's more what I was marveling at. Like, every time the jet would, like, fly over and that, like, shot of the dust, like, rolling up and the sound of it and squeals and the blood and the visual effects of it. All of the fantastic. But, yeah, I don't know where I'd really go next. I just don't have that much to say about this movie, to be honest.

It was kind of like an experience, a slice. You see this just really stressful, 90-minute slice. I do like the pace of it. I do like how quickly it kind of goes by. It barely lingers at all. And yeah, I do like what you said, Jake, about the little bits of characterization. And then, as it gets more chaotic, they kind of, and more literal dust, like, fills the screen. You kind of, like, lose track of the characters and other, like, squads are coming in, and they kind of blend into this one unit until they finally escape.

Or some of them do. Yeah, even like Will Polter's character who's like leading the mission, you know, he has that moment where he, after that the huge explosion, you know, and he's just like, I can't, I can't do this, you know, and he hands it off to what Charles Melton, I think. But those like, yeah, those little like details are great. And, you know, I kind of was comparing this or thinking a lot about our discussion on satire a few episodes ago. Right. When talking about like how, if someone is watching a satirical film, but they're. taking it seriously or they're like endorsing what it's trying to make fun of. I feel like it's similar to this. Like you can't really control how people are going to interpret it. I mean, the movie is

deliberately trying to hold back on saying anything, you know, in your face, you know, like it's not having what Adam's trying to do with the director walking into frame and saying, hey, believe this, you know, and you can't control that there are going to be 14-year-old boys watching this playing call of duty going, oh, that's so fucking cool, you know, because that's 14-year-old boys. This makes me want to join the military. Yeah, you know, but I think the majority of people watching this are going to say, this is really fucked up and scary. So, like, obviously there's going to people who watch this.

And, you know, maybe in the defense of people saying it's propaganda, I think the final, the way the movie ends, I thought that's one thing I didn't enjoy about it, where it just kind of showed all the photographs of the real guys. And then it kind of has like, you know, a salute to the actual company or whatever. Thank you, Bravo company for always being there to answer the call. Something like that. Yeah. That's the one thing that's kind of like, I don't know. I don't know if we needed that. I mean, my perspective is just like, it's to me that would just be like a logistical thing. Like, yeah, you're probably going to want something in there thanking the people that allowed you to make the movie based on their story.

That's true. Yeah, a lot of their faces were blurred out. You know, like, it's not an endorsement of the thing that they did. But like, you just like, hey, thanks real people because we're doing your likeness. I think you kind of have to do that. So, I don't know. Yeah, especially with Raymond Doza writing and directing. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I get that. That makes sense. And not everyone looks good in this. situation. A lot of their faces are blurred out in the photographs. Yeah. Which kind of says something in itself, you know, the fact that it's like, yeah, these are the real guys.

Here's a picture of him. He does not have his picture shown. Yeah. Yeah, loved it. It wasn't gratuitously patriotic. I loved that it was just this kind of weird art piece, very experimental, you know, feels like it could have just been one of Soderberg's side projects in concept. or something. You know, I like going into something that's doing something different and unique.

And they're like, we're going to see if this works as a film. And to me, it really did. I would watch this again right away. I thought it was dope. Very disturbing,

very visceral. Lots of screaming. Love the drone shots. Like the infrared stuff was really cool. Looks beautiful. Love the framing. Love the sound design.

So much great. stuff going into this movie. Eight out of ten for me. I thought it was fucking dank. Yeah, I'm a bit lower, I think. Always had me. Like three and a half star, maybe a low. Yeah, I didn't.

There was something about, like, the way Joseph Quinn was screaming. It was like, man, something about, like, realistic screams and pain in film, like, when it's done, like, that well, that's quite, I don't know, that's really lingua of me in particular. just how gruesome it is. Yeah. I'd give this an 8 out of 10. Nice. Very good.

I like it. Yeah. But the screaming too, seeing that kind of thing on screen, because sometimes I'm like, I could be an actor. Anyone could be an actor. And then I watch, you know, Joseph Quinn screaming at the top of his lungs for 45 minutes. And I'm like, I couldn't do that. That's a lot of work.

That's exhausting. You got to like put fire ants in your underwear. Yeah. Good point. Yeah. Dude. Anybody can method act. You just do the thing.

Just go to war. Yeah. Just do the war. Just shoot yourself in the foot. You'll be screaming. You'll have the best performance. If any weird people that are like into, what do we call it? Is it like masochism or something?

What is it when you enjoy hurting yourself or something? What do we call that? Sadomasochism? Sadism, sadism, yeah. Something like that. I've always thought like, okay, why get a prosthetic when you can just get a body double of some guy who's doing his own genital mutilation in his own time anyway? And you can just sign a really nice contract and say like, oh, we're going to film this one. You have the double shot, right?

You just have him as a body double for one shot. And then it looks real because it is real. and you have the scene in Antichrist Yeah, I was thinking Antichrist as you were describing that. Yeah, that's intense. All right, which movie do you want to do next? Wow, yeah, that's... Okay.

On that note. Look, I've got lots of good ideas. These are... I'm going to talk to Werner Herzog and see what he thinks about. Yeah. You guys can collaborate. Thanks. Yeah.

Which one do you want to do? Sixthunder boats. Let's do Thunderbolts, asterisk. Thunderbolts. Okay. First off, before we start the Thunderbolts discussion, because I realize we're still in the first half of this episode. We're not doing Humusandipede Trilogy this time.

We're doing it the next time. For more information, go to the previous episode at the very end. I explained it. Second, in the comment section to the last episode where, what was the movie that, Minecraft? Yeah. That I was never going to watch. B movie?

Yeah, Minecraft B movie. that I was never, I was never going to watch Minecraft. I wasn't expected to watch Minecraft. Somebody, somebody in the comment section was like, you can't, you can't even watch a movie. It's your job. It's like, okay, well, it wasn't the recommendation. The recommendations are the ones we watch.

So Jake and Alex are talking about Thunderbolts because they both saw it. There was no plan for everyone to see it, but they both saw it. I didn't. I was never going to watch it. If there was a plan for me too, I would. But like, we did this like plenty of times when like Ralph was on the show, like me and him would talk about things sometimes or you and Ralph would. Like I don't get why that's an issue.

It's not. Yeah. Can everyone please be normal? Just be normal. No. It's a movie podcast. Yeah. Yeah.

So I didn't watch this either. And I would be shocked to hear anything in this discussion. That would make me feel as though I should have seen it. Mm-hmm. All right, continue. So, yeah, we kind of were getting out that, uh, that marketing stunt, would you call it? The, can you, again, with the spoiler thing, it's technically a spoiler for the movie. The asterisk?

Yeah. Yeah, but it's news online now. Like, that wasn't revealed in the movie, was it? It was revealed outside of the movie. Is it a spoiler? It was revealed in the movie. It's part of the movie. I saw it.

Oh. I saw it opening. night and that was a reveal and now after two days they're like okay let's let's make sure people actually go see this we're calling at this now yeah because i i wasn't really interested in seeing this until it was going to be on digital until i guess the marketing stump worked on me um i was like what what is this movie then because i just figured it was like a suicide squad kind of it's it's our version suicide squad type thing um and like the character lineup is like all these like b if not c tier like Marvel characters from the past few years.

But I don't know. I don't have my... I'm going to spoil it, okay? You're going to spoil it? I'm going to spoil it right now. I'll go for it. The asterisk is for the new Avengers. That's what it's supposed to be.

Brough. Wow. Dude, ruined it for me. Everybody who cares about it has already seen it. Yeah, I guess. I don't know. I kind of liked it. It was actually pretty good.

The twist or the movie? I was actually surprised. The whole film. Like I went in with like my arms crossed. I didn't even see the Captain America Red Hulk one or whatever. I didn't see that yet. You didn't miss anything. And it's like referenced in the beginning.

I was like I don't know. I don't really feel like it was important to see that. And that was another thing that was putting me off it because I think, yeah, just one of these characters I'm looking out on the poster was from like a Disney Plus show that I didn't see. the new Captain America dude who's like in a killed somebody. Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Oh yeah, John Walker. He's on Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I watched that.

John Walker. Yeah, yeah. I never saw that. So I didn't have. It was okay. The context for that. But I don't know. They did a good enough job in like that first act establishing like who these people are,

I guess and like what their powers are and the way they interact with each other. I don't know. There was like something like actually sincere about it. And the way like it actually kind of. cared about characters and it was character led in a way like some of the older ones used to be. Okay. So it hit the low bar for what a movie is? No, beyond that.

Like, it actually had some, for a big blockbuster action movie, had some good action sequences. I really like Florence Peele's like the figurehead for it, the lead character that guides you through it. I like the themes of it about like kind of addiction and mental health and depression in this kind of stuff. Just like stuff I was not expecting to see from a movie like this. And especially, man, it drives me crazy about these movies is that plug-in formula, wherein that third act, it becomes like two equal heroes just like flying around, like shoving into each other. And it's like so crazy.

And the scale is so enormous. And I figured they were just going to do that again from the trailers. But I kind of really like that third act even, too, like where they take it. And it's again a cool, like villain that they have in there. You can spoil it for me. I'm still not going to watch it. Yeah, I don't even know, like, what you could even really spoil. Like, the villains, like, I don't know. We're so deep into these, like, superhero characters that I don't even know, like, who they are.

If they're, like, a reference or something. Did you know this guy, Jake? This villain character who's, he's, like, half a villain, half a, and it's, like, his mental anguish is personified. Is this villainous character who, like, turns people into shadows? No, no, I had no idea. I was just like, that's Bill Pullman's son. That's cool. he's in a movie yeah and that was a I don't know that was like a cool visual look even for the

villain where he's like just completely in shadow apart from the little specks of light from his eyes and like just the i knew as soon as that little girl got uh turned into a shadow it was like okay this is impermanent then because you're there's no way you're like gonna commit to doing that um i thought that too i was like are they doing like assault on pressing 13 just like kill a little little girl like i'm like 10 stars no Even in saying that, like, it felt like at stake. Um, it was like a kind of scary, sympathetic villain. Yeah, I liked a lot of that action.

There's like some actual cool action in that too. I liked when they reveal that villain and he's in that kind of goofy golden suit. And there's that really long shot where he's like taking all the thunderbolts out with ease. And so yeah, it's like, uh, when we're saying, uh, with Captain Marvel, which is just like a super boring protagonist because she's so ridiculously powerful. Then when you flip that to like a villain, it's like, what? What do you actually do about this? And it's like kind of interesting, like, how you're going to take this down?

How are you going to deal with this? Yeah, it was quite enjoyable and likable from that perspective for me. I get the more marvellous things I didn't like about it were like the attempts at humor. It just don't really work for me, especially the Red Guardian. Is that his name? Character. He's very, like, screaming. I'm David Harmer, and I'm screaming.

Yeah, which is fine. It just doesn't really work for me that humorous stuff I like it when it's being more sincere and there is a good character moment with him and Florence Pugh later in the film but yeah Marvel humor man

it's just all over the place I thought it was better I thought the humor was better in this than it has been recently but then again I saw I had to sit through Captain America Brave New World Yeah well even is recent

I'm trying to think like yeah it was Captain America The Marvels The Marvels Yeah Deadpool and Wolverine That's last year. Oh, dude, yeah.

Yeah. Okay, so yeah. So, yeah, so, birds of those, is a huge step up. For me, anyway. I just didn't like those ones. I haven't even seen Captain America yet. I loved Julia Louise Dreyfus. Like, she's been bit parts in a bunch of these movies,

and she's, like, throughout the entire film, gets fleshed out a little bit. I just like when a villainous character, the kind of, their inner turmoil is personified through the way interact with all the other characters and like their superpowers bring something out or are used to drop exposition or go deeper or give little hints of like what people are about um i don't know just a just enough characterization i thought the set pieces were good i like how it was restricted to quite a small amount of locations um because they can get a bit like nuts with that with like oh yeah no we're over here now with the blah it's just so like chaotic um but it felt like quite

succinct and just to the point. And just I don't know. This I think is just what these movies should be for the most part. Like enjoyable, breezy, good action. Music was a bit generic. I was surprised at the end when Sun Lux was

the one who was credited for it because there was all that stuff in the marketing about it being all these A24 people coming together. And it felt like they were trying to capture a little bit of that everything everywhere. Type Energy with the the way they defeat the villain of like hugging him um which is i don't know i like that i thought that was actually like kind of cool then it's then it's a question of what what is the composer told to create right like everything everywhere it's supposed to be a mishmash of like different tones colliding yeah whereas like i can't imagine that was the instruction given to son

lux for this yeah yeah i don't know let's go i like the set piece uh really like bucking's movie, I thought he was cool. Yeah, I don't know. It's not like deep or anything, but deeper than they've been recently more enjoyable and consistent too. Like there wasn't like a me pulling my hair out like, what are we actually doing here type scene with like, I don't know, the second Black Panther with the villain like flying around the funny little angel feet and just like, just goofiness like on that level. It just felt like quite consistent with itself. And even turning characters that I'm like there's like a random like ant man villain in here I just don't care about who's kind of cool and fine and like has a fun little suit and stuff yeah I don't know

this is just what a Marvel movie should be to me um where does it rank no I don't know oh god I don't know how you even rank them at this point there's so many is it in the is it in the top five Marvel movies you've seen or is in the top oh 10 no It's not top five. Top ten? But there's, I don't know, there's probably about, maybe. I'd have to look at, there are genuinely so many. I can't actually remember how many.

Because if it's not number one, it sounds uninteresting to me. It sounds not worth it. I'm trying to think of my favorite Marvel movie right now, and I'm like, what? Like, Infinity War? If it's not better than Infinity War, like, what's the point? It's probably Guardians 3 It's probably my favorite one I still haven't watched it

I don't know if I ever will Yeah You just don't give a shit So I wouldn't recommend it If you don't care about these Exactly Characters or the the pulpy kind of superior stuff

But I like it when it's done well Yeah Where does it rank for you, Jake In the mess of all this shit I think it's in top ten I would consider it up there I mean, the thing is, like, to me, it feels like this is a mid-good Marvel movie that you'd see in phase one or two, but because it's coming now after lots of, you know, issues with quality.

I mean, there's been good ones. Guardians 3 was good. Deadpool and Wolverine, you could argue with, you know, people like that. But I would say, like, now that it's, the mid has become like, oh, this is actually good. I think it's best exemplified right here. This is a critic review. Caroline Seed. I pulled this from Ron Tomatoes, and this is the quote they used on Rotten Tomatoes.

Instead of another messy act of brand extension, Thunderbolts is the first Marvel project in a long time that feels like an actual movie. And that's the positive. Yeah. So it's the, it's like the M. Knight's split of Marvel movies. Except split is a masterpiece, and I'll fight you on that. I mean, it's just, I would. There's another one here.

Jordan Hoffman, Entertainment Weekly. Between meals at fine restaurants, there are also gas station sandwiches, and they aren't so bad. Wow. They used for his positive review. That's great, actually. It's genuinely like a fun time. I enjoyed, like Alex was saying, I like Bucky in this, like characters that I've seen in other projects because I've been semi-invested. you know, over the years.

I thought David Harbor was funny and fun. I thought their dynamic was just, you know, it was nice. And the movie does have like lower stakes. Well, I guess not really at the end, but it feels more like compact. A lot of the movies spend at this bunker where they're like just trying to get out using, you know, their own ingenuity. And like we get to see how their powers work in that whole sequence, how what their dynamic is starting off. And yeah, it's super generic. and it has the typical, you know, it goes for the typical places it needs to go for this three-act

structure to work and for the, you know, everything to come together in a tight, well, sort of tight, you know, two hours. But by the end of it, I was like, yeah, you know, this is, this is fun. They have some earned emotional beats. I don't love the whole depression personified, you know, like there's a part where the character is literally beating up his depressed self and they have to make the comment of like, no, that's what he wants you to do. You know, it's very like, um, like a very special episode type of thing of like, we're going to learn about, you know, how people have sad thoughts. And I think that it was, it was, it was very on the nose. But it also was like, yeah, this is fine. It's, it works for what this is. And it's much better than a big blue beam

shooting into the sky and then having to fight a bunch of CGI monsters. Right. Yeah. And It was just nice. It was, and it was, I thought it was well filmed. Yeah, it was nice. Now I have, I've got a list up of all of them. I think it probably would be top down actually. Okay. Considering like, especially how bad some of them have been recently as you're getting at.

Yeah. But yeah, and also just with that consistency, because, like, Shang-chi, like, had some awesome, like, fist-to-cuff's fight sequences. But, God, it's so bad at a certain point. Like, it just nose dives. And it's, like, unwatchew. pretty much when they go to that like Pokemon world or whatever the hell is going on there

or like even like parts of No Way Home are just like annoying to me that having to reference and include stuff from I don't know it's just the crossover episode meme um yeah Thor, love and thunder holy shit

God that's one of the worst ones yeah just all over the place these films so quantum mania like the last few years have been great and I'd forgotten about the marvels entirely um so here's a question And did it at any point feel like an A24 film? I don't actually know what that means at this point, to be honest.

All right. What defines an A24 film? It felt exactly like A24 film High Life. It felt exactly like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I think like it definitely feels like there was more quality put into it. The creative team behind a beef, which is a show I,

really love. They were behind this, the director and the writers. So there was like some, there's some quality in there. They got some stuff. Of course, they have to fit it into the Marvel framework like anything. But like one of the best action sequences of the recent MCU has just been with this like road chase in the middle of the desert. You know, just cars going after each other and shooting each other. Very simple.

But when Bucky shows up like on his motorcycle. doing wheelies. I was like, that's a fucking movie star. Like, this is fucking cool. That was cool. I was like, I was like, I don't fucking kill. Like, this is fun.

Like, they have these actual trucks, this guy on a motor, the stuntman on a motorcycle, like blowing shit up. Like, yeah, this is fun. And stupid and I'm in for it. And, you know, when they do the like,

end credit thing, like teasing Fantastic Four or whatever and talking about the new Avengers, I was just like, I was like, yeah, like, this is what a Marvel movie should be. It's like teasing the next movie that's going to come out in a few months instead of teasing some random character who's never going to have a solo movie ever, you know? Yeah, because I was getting confused with the, because that whole New Avengers thing,

and they start playing like the Avengers theme and there's this new group or whatever. I swear they did that before, like a New Avengers type thing. And so, yeah, we're the Avengers now. But was that like before the Disney Plus stuff? And it just became this like web of shit and all these random setups. Because like at the end of, I don't know. What was it? Thor, Love and Thunder they like tease like Hercules at the end.

So yep, that's going to happen. Hercules. At the end of Eternals they tease like, what was that tease? Something really bizarre. It was like Harry Stiles or something. Yeah, that's going to happen. Just shit like that. I'm still waiting for the rest of the dark universe with Tom.

Cruz. I'm still waiting for all of the millions of King replicants. Oh, yeah. At the end of Quantumania. Oops. I wonder if they're ever going to address King again. No. Do you guys want to bet if they're ever even going to mention the word king?

We forgot. I don't know. They undercut him so. Antman beats him. His career was just starting. Ant Man kicks his out. So it wasn't like very exciting. Um,

but yeah, yeah, it was, it was just like, keeping it simple. Keep it simple, stupid. It's like,

yeah, it knows what it is. It was well made. It wasn't pissing me off, which is more I can say about many of these super hero movies lately. Um, all that to say that, like,

I'm giving this like a three star. Like, it's good. Same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's fun.

It's decent. It's what these should be inoffensive. Has like some sincerity to it. doesn't feel like it's I don't know they've just been all over the place and I just felt consistent

and I dug that for it and had some moments that were actually like oh yeah that was pretty cool like you're making these big dumb action movies

like do something with the action like they're all like you said in that bunker in the first act there's like a quite a good sequence with a knife in there

and yeah it's just like a fun action movie crowd pleasing yeah yeah Yeah, simple stuff. I liked it. One out of ten for me. Yeah, well.

I didn't watch it. So that, it's bad. You watched half a trailer. I forget. Yeah. One out of ten. Okay. Hell yeah.

Well, do we have anything else to say about this or shall we move on? I think that's about it. What was your rating, Jake? Three stars out of five. Cool. All right, let's balance it out. We're going to do a little speed run review of Black Bag. Black Bag.

Where's my notes? Where the fuck is my notes for black bag? Which book is it? Yeah, you mentioned Soderberg earlier. I wonder if you were gonna bring this up. Well, I feel like, okay, if we're doing a speed run review, I can probably remember enough about it without my notes. Anyway, Steven Soderberg, Michael Fastbender, Kate. It's like a fun spy. thriller, but it has enough of a sense of humor to it. It's kind of ironic in terms of how like silly and goofy it is. I feel like it very much is aware of how, uh, you know, of its own tone where you're kind of like laughing with it and not at it whenever it's doing something a little ridiculous. Uh, I loved it. What did you think?

It rocks. It was like a speed run of a, like a James Bond movie. or something. It's like, man, so many spy movies can get so convoluted or like dull for me. And this just felt like it was stylish, it was slick, it was quick, I love that plot, I love these characters

and the way they're able to flesh them out in such a short amount of time. Yeah, I really dug it. What about you, Jay? Yeah, I mean, stylish, fun, sexy, smart entertainment for adults, no wonder it flopped, you know. I think it didn't do well at the box office unfortunately, but But I'm glad that it was in a box office at all.

I just had a great time, like you guys are saying. I think like a compressed James Bond, but like very funny and like self-aware. It's a movie that's really just about like modern relationships. The whole question of the movie is like, what makes a relationship work? What, you know, what makes this central relationship. Michael Fastbender and what's her name? Kate.

Who's the other lead? Kate Blanchett, yes, thank you. Like what makes their relationship work? And that's, I found the fact that it was like layered within this like twisty little spy drama really fun. Great hook too. Mm-hmm.

Your dogs are going crazy. I know. I'm sorry. Let me go talk to him. Yeah, I, I, uh, I found the dialogue to be very fun. I was very into like the, what's the word? Cadence?

Cadence? I was very into the cadence yet. Yeah, because the cadence to the editing was great too as far as like the scene structure, like when a scene would begin and end and what you'd learn in between these little scenes. It's just perfect as far as like when they choose to cut or what line of dialogue they'd choose.

to end on. I've got some like quotes, stop spraying your sickness on the rest of us. This whole thing about hunting severus and, yeah, the hook of it, that there's like the rat, and like which one of these people's a rat and the simplicity of the, and the bookends of the, the table, the meal at the hosting and stuff like this. Yeah. And the premise gets started immediately. It doesn't waste any time. It's just like, oh, here's the premise. And you're like, oh, that's an interesting premise. And then you just get to watch characters kind of do this. Yeah, yeah.

Almost kind of cat and mouse thing. But, um, and it would do cool stuff like, uh, it would, uh, use the, what they're doing in a scene to go, kind of reinforce like what the characters are going through. Mm-hmm. And,

and build that into the dialogue. Like, uh, there's also fishing. Um, is it a decent catch next to impossible? Yeah, yeah. While they're like eating trout and all this double meaning to like, what's going on and they'd do that a lot. Just like clever, cool. Yeah, self-aware, so it's not like annoying.

Yeah, it's like a cheeky kind of cool. Yeah, cheeky is a very good way of describing actually. It does feel cheeky, but it is also cool there. It's cool without feeling like a forced, like, oh, don't you think I'm so cool? Like it's not... It's not like triad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somehow manages to stay within that space where it's one of those things where it's like,

like we were talking about earlier the past few episodes, doing a satire and then not being sure if people will recognize it as such. This is one of those where it's like, there might be people watching this that think that it's trying to be the lame version of what they're doing, maybe, you know?

I think it kind of exists in both ways and lives up to both outcomes, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of laid in that way. Because on its face, it does work perfectly fine too, just as a spy story, cool characters, twist and turns,

betrayals. I really love the whole, what do you call it, the, not the interviews, the, when he's hooked up to the, sorry,

it's been a few weeks since I've seen it. Yes, the polygraph. Yeah, the polygraph, that's the word I was looking for. I thought that was a fantastic sequence. Yeah.

It didn't. And it's not really, It's not really an action film in any way. There aren't really set pieces. Well, there are set pieces, but they're more like the polygraph scene or just conversations, tense conversations, or the one with the, going back to the, using the food and the location to get on with the, or foreshadow things within the story, that whole like puffer fish and the illegal puffer fish scene.

It's had loads of cool details like that. The editing was fantastic too. That's what really made the polygraph scene. And not just the editing, but like the choice for how to organize the information and... The cutting between the characters, yeah. But especially where the cuts are, yeah. Because it's like the questions that he's asking them the way that it's, that it's presented, it's like he's talking to the next person without you realizing.

Or like he's talking to the previous person without you realizing. sort of thing. Yeah. And then you kind of infer that he's asking the same questions to different people. And, you know, just it's, it's a very interestingly layered scene that I love. And you could have the exact same thing play out over a longer period of time. The fact that this film is 93 minutes and does so much is like a huge plus for me. It's very tight in how it's written and presented.

Well, it makes it so you could, it makes it feel like you could just chuck it on it. any time. Yeah, literally. It's not like a weak link in here. It's it just flies by. And I'm sure there's different things you'd pick up on. Yeah, there's lots of like good like interrogations actually, because obviously the main character, that's his job. There's also a therapist character too. Um, the whole like I'll not end up like my mother. That's the first interesting thing you've said. Um, it's like when the scene ends. And this is loads of good stuff like that. Um, did we say this was a spoiler discussion by the way? Because I've just been spoiling like a bunch of dialogue and scenes. I mean, you've been spoiling dialogue. Like, there's,

There's only one real spoiler and that's like, who'd a mole. Who's the rap? The rest of the movie, I'm not sure we can spoil because it's just such like a fun experience. And those quotes of dialogue, like they're not going to mean anything until they're in context when you're watching it, right? So I wouldn't consider those as spoiler. Did you notice that the psychiatrist is the female lead from 28 days later? Yeah. No, I did actually.

Yeah, lots of good. The dude from the, got my brain today, the Mad Max, maybe he looks like a solid snake. What's his face? Tom Burke, I thought he was coming as well. Oh, yeah, he's good. He's good. Yeah. We got a pierced bronzen in it.

I was shocked to see him. And I loved that he was in it because it does kind of feel like a Bond movie too. That's a wink wink now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, lots of fun. Do you guys like Soderberg overall, big Soderberg? I love Soderberg. Okay.

And I don't love every one of his movies. Like he's a mixed bag, but I love him as a director, yeah. I love how experimental he is. And the range. Amazing range. Yeah. Because I saw presents too. Oh, presence.

Yeah. No, I checked out presents like a week or two ago. I can just say so different something like this. Yeah. Or, um. What's the like the hot guys dancing movie? I was like, oh yeah, you did that. Magic Mike.

Magic Mike, yeah. Yeah, he's got such fucking range. Yeah, it's just like a crazy range. It's funny because I, a lot of what are considered to be his best movies I haven't seen. I haven't seen sex lies and videotape. I haven't seen traffic and I haven't seen Aaron Brockovich. But I've seen so many of his other movies and his more recent ones as well.

But yeah, I love that he can do something. thing like Ocean's 11 and then just take a little break and go, I want to go to a random town and find some non-actor and just make this really basic story with like filming with shitty like TV cameras. We're going to call it bubble. And just like being able to watch that and just being like, oh, wow, like you, you care about doing things differently and trying different things. and the variety of what you're showing and experiencing.

I like that there's always this experimental feeling to what he's doing, and it always feels motivated in some way. Like the restrictions he places on himself, like, oh, I'm going to film an entire movie, but like this, right? So presence is an example of that, and that's pretty recent. Yeah. It's like a filming experiment, which I love. I thought that's fantastic.

Yeah. Yeah. Even shorter than this movie, too, that was an hour of 20, I think. Just unique ideas. He would just be like, I'm just going to predict COVID, like a decade before it happened. Let me just predict COVID real quick. Yeah, he's a really cool film I could. I want to shout out because we're talking about how great Soderberg is, but David Kep wrote the screenplay.

Yes, also for presents as well. Yeah, good show. David Kep working. wrote Jurassic Park, Mission Impossible, first one. The last two Indiana Jones. I mean, insane, insane run of screenplays, but... Zathura? Zethora.

Oh, classic, yeah. Secret window. Carlito's Way. Yeah, so anyways, great screenwriter. That's what I want to point out. Cool. I like that Soderberg will just find to like these types of screenwriter. screenplays and just go like, yeah, what the hell?

I hope they continue working together because right now they're two for two very recent. And like, yeah, they're both fantastic. Presence and BlackBegg. I just saw that David Kep is writing Steven Spielberg's next UFO movie called, well, The Dish right now. It'll probably change. The Dish. Yeah. Interesting.

The Fableman's Two. The Fableman's Two with aliens. Why not? That would actually make it interesting for me. You don't like fablements? No. Oh, no, that breaks my heart. It's like, I don't know.

It's, it's, there comes a point when a director just becomes like almost a parody of themselves, you know? Okay. I see that. I see that. Yeah. I disagree. It's okay. I enjoyed it.

It's all right. Mm-hmm. What would you give presents, Alex? I think I gave it a false. are eight out of ten. I thought it was just fantastic. Nice. I also gave it an eight out of ten.

Just a unique perspective. I would say to people who haven't seen it, don't go in expecting a horror movie. I know. No. 824 in neon, they keep having to market unique films. And if they want people to see them, they present them as like, oh, but these are things you've already seen. And then people go in thinking, oh, I want to see this.

thing I've already seen and then they see something unique and then they're disappointed. Yeah. And it's very unique. I'd give it like 10, 15 minutes to settle into what it's doing because it's, yeah, the way the camera's used is like, wow, this is extremely creative and cool. Yeah. I haven't seen anything quite like this. It's more a drama.

Yeah. Yeah. I really like the died character in there as well. He was cool. Oh, he was great. Yeah. Yeah. It was nice to see a character like that.

But Black Bag. I love the term Black Bag. I'm just like, but what it means? I feel like that might be something to add to my lexicon as far as just like, that's going in the black bag. I'm not talking about that. In my BB. Yeah, fantastic movie.

This was a little speed run review. It was a speed run movie. It was quick. Loved it. 8 out of 10 for BlackBag as well, you. Yeah, I'm right there with you. 8 out of 10 for me, full star. I'm loving this like, spout with these 90-minute,

like just brisk, awesome, revisitable, rewatchable movies. Because it was like the same of Mars Express for me, where I've seen it like three or four times almost simply because of how brisk it is and how like well-paced. It's like, man, I wish the scene wasn't here or blah, blah, blah, but it just flies by. It makes it so watchable for me. You could watch Black Bag how many times in one day. So if it's three hours for two watching, 24 divided by three is, eight. So you could watch BlackBag

just under eight times per day if you never slept. You know, it's funny, BlackBag is just as long as warfare. True. Yeah, pretty much. It's just that would be... Warfare felt longer, for sure. Yeah, in a different way. But warfare was one scene, so... Yeah, and that genre is just inherently more

more of a downer. Are you going to say, Jake? Oh, I'm giving it seven. Seven out of ten. Seven. Ocean 7. Yeah. Too many British people, but otherwise it was great. Yeah, I wish they would have cast only French.

Yeah, needed more Americans doing bad British accents. Yeah. Trying to upset me right now. All right. Yeah, I guess we're doing sinners. Is this the first episode where we've done like four movies that were recent in one episode? I think so. I think so.

And it's also the first without a recommendation from any of us too. Yeah. Making history over here. Thumbnails going to go crazy. It's going to be like four tiny little images. No, it's easy to put four posters in a thumbnail. You just do, you split it down the middle horizontally and middle vertically. Okay.

Yeah. I've done it. All right. Time for Sinners directed by Ryan Cougler and starring Michael B. Jordan

To them Michael B. Jordan. Yeah, you know what's fucking crazy? I had no idea going So I didn't even watch a trailer in it. Well, actually, no, I watched the first trailer. But I never caught that that's what they were trying to do

marketing-wise. And so during the film, I was like, These two guys look basically the same, but I didn't want to be like, think that I was being racist. Wait, what? You thought those were two different people? I thought it was, that's why I felt so stupid after. Yeah, I looked up on my phone. I'm like, oh.

That's hilarious. Yeah, but I obviously didn't want to do that during the movie. Yeah, I didn't see a trailer for. But that was one of my favorite parts was Smoke and Stack, that they were cool, lead characters. Those were your favorite parts? One of my favorite parts. Okay. Because, of course, the thing about this movie, original, quite expensive to make, and is actually doing well.

People are enjoying it. Really enjoying it, in fact. And I enjoyed it too. But I guess I rated it and then people didn't like my rating. Some of the shit people are saying like crazy. Like, did he stay till the very end? It's the elephant in the room. I think you guys are kind of lukewarm.

I saw your ratings, both of you, so you guys are kind of lukewarm on it, right? It's good. Yeah, I really liked it. It's a normie masterpiece. Wow. Wow. Is it not? I don't know if I'd put it quite like that.

Is it not? Wow. I feel like there are 10 out of 10 scenes in here, but just as a whole, it didn't come together for me, especially for me, it was a pacing thing mostly for me. I was kind of in love with the first hour, I would say. I love like the world and the kind of subtle characterization. And like, it was really intriguing to me, like, there's the tease and the way the film opens that implies the supernatural or violence that's coming.

So, oh, are we going to get there? What's this all going to build to? And it was more just like the anti-climax seems like too strong. of a phrasing but I just felt like it was it peaked for me at a certain scene the scene everyone is talking about which which is a 10 out of 10 like this this is rocks this is an amazing scene what scene should we spoil it should we just yeah should we go and spoil us it's difficult to spoiler talk everybody we all enjoyed the movie go see it to dance around yeah when they're in the barn of course and they're going through the

different areas of music and the way that shot and I thought that was an incredible scene but that's kind of where it peeped for me, even though that's almost before the supernatural vampire element gets entangled into it, really. I don't know, I've been really thinking and marinating on this film trying to find the words to describe why. Maybe it's like an inverse, like a Thunderbot situation where the expectations were extremely high going in. So maybe they were too high? I don't know. But then the vibe of it, I love that setting, the 30s setting, the production of it. I like having that weird coincidence of all these movies with the same two people being the main character lately.

And it's being another one of them with the Mickey 17, that De Niro movie, I can't remember the name of, with them being the same character. And now... Altunites. Yeah, yeah. And now sinners. But yeah, I don't know what it particularly was. It's mostly that pace, I feel, because of course, the vampire element was teased or what people were saying about it in the kind of pulpy, carpenterex way that it's going, and it kind of becomes a bottle movie at a certain point. And I don't know.

By that point, I was like, you set up all these characters that I really care about, and the way this tension is being relieved or this situation is being dealt with just isn't really making me feel anything. Because I thought that was kind of the direction they were going was like, something's going to happen to one of these twins, and I'm going to feel emotional about it. But it's, I don't know, maybe the tone wasn't connecting with me in contrast with that first half or so, or, I don't know, I'm really finding it difficult to nail down, but I was just feeling that, I was feeling the time at a certain point,

and especially by the time you got to the second or third ending, I was kind of like, it feels a bit messy to me, or at least a little bit scatterbrand all over the place. I don't know. It's only some of your guys thoughts. Who wants to go first? You or me? Go ahead, Adam.

Okay. All right. So things about the movie I loved. The music, probably number one. I thought the music was fantastic. I love how it was used in each scene, both diagellically. and none diogenetically. Carried the tone and was very unique.

I loved the character that was a musician also, like the guitar player, singer character. I thought that his inclusion in the film was great. His performance worked really well. I was not really into Bofa de Michael B. Jordans. I found their... Really? Yeah.

I found their... found their attempts at being cool, something that took way too long for me to buy. I felt like for the first 40 minutes at least, probably. I was kind of just like watching the film insist that they're cool rather than just feeling it. Like it felt really phony, not really into, you know, how he projects his voice, I guess. there's something that just feels like forced, you know, that I just wasn't into.

So I wish it was more about the musician character because I liked him a lot. You know, fairly, still didn't ruin the movie or anything. What did kind of ruin the movie for me as in prevented this from being like a great movie for me

was a bunch of fucking shitty jump scares like awful stupid you know, reminds you that you're watching a movie, prevents you from being in the film's universe. Are you talking about the start of the movie? I'm talking about several times within the movie. Yeah, which one? So the one that jumps out to me, yeah, there's one at the start. There's one that jumps out to me in my memory as being particularly egregious because I was

just getting into that fucking scene, too, where it's introducing the white supremacist characters and, you know, the guys begging to be let in the house or whatever, blah, blah, blah. And then some time passes the wife's walking around. And it's like, oh, wow, you can actually do, like, real suspense. There's, there's, you're not filling the auditory space with a bunch of unnecessary music. Like, you're letting the sound design exist and the quietness exemplify the tension. And then it's ruined with a fucking dumb, stupid jump scare.

Okay, like, I'm, if you have something happening in a movie where you want people to be, uh, startled, that is not necessarily a bad thing. That is not a deal breaker.

But when you're doing it in a way where the, the sense of being startled is generated not from things happening in the film's universe, but from sounds taking place non-diagetically, outside of the film's universe and reminding you that it's a film, not only reminding you that it's a film, because you're playing noises that aren't taking place in the film's universe,

but particularly because you wouldn't be startled without those, right? It's like a fucking crutch. Imagine if it was commonplace for, let's say, the standard for comedy. Here's a really good example. laugh tracks, right? Imagine if every fucking comedy movie decided to have a laugh track. Just because that's the standard and just because that's normal and people are like, maybe some people don't notice it or maybe just some people are so used to it that they don't demand better things. That doesn't make it not shitty, right? It reminds you that you're in a film, right? Like, who are these audience members laughing? I should be able to laugh at the actual jokes, not laugh because of some instinctual. mechanism in our brains that tries to be

social with other creatures around us and they hear other people laughing and that forces us to be more open to laughing. No, it should be the jokes themselves. In that same vein, the things that are being shown on screen should be scary or startling or whatever emotion you want to get across

without doing shitty, fucking dumb, loud, annoying, non-diogenic jump scares. It pisses me the fuck off. I have a question. What? Sorry, not to interrupt. But I do have a question about, are you opposed to jump scares on principle, or are there any times when you think a jump scare is done well? I thought that in my memory, an example of a fantastic jump scare would be in nocturnal animals.

Because there was like, no. There was like nothing to even indicate that there would be one. Like, it was genuinely surprising and shocking and, like, catches you off guard. And, you know, in the context of that, like, you have a little bit more leeway with the types of sounds you're going to use because that's in someone's head, too. So it's no, it's not that I'm against jump scares and principle. Here's another example. Fucking, what's that British cave movie with all the women? The dissent, right?

Yeah, the descent. There's tons of jump scares in that. film. Like, they're done, you know, maybe there's some instances of those jump scares where they add a little bit of extra flavor from the sound design. But I feel like in the context of what's happening in that film, from my memory, most of the sound comes from the creatures like screaming. Like, there is like an actual startling thing taking place in the context of the film. In fucking in in in this movie, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I'm remembering it incorrectly, but like even in this scene that I mentioned with them discovering the, you know, the wife is

walking around at night and then sees that her husband is now a vampire and that the guy that they let in is also a vampire in the bit him or whatever. The jump scare noise is a completely artificial sound being used to startle people in the audience that doesn't take place in the universe. And there's nothing startling that happens in the universe other than her just seeing it, right? So it's just like it's it's so fucking irritating. And perhaps maybe I'm just sensitive to it. Perhaps I mean, it would appear so if nobody else cares. But if I were to if I were to create an analogy, imagine if the standard for comedy,

let's ignore the laugh track analogy even though that works perfectly let's let's let's now use something that would just irritate and discuss the fuck out of people let's imagine that every single time you saw a joke in a movie it wasn't just a laugh track

but they they put goat see on the screen for like five seconds because people find it funny there's like oh goat'sy's funny but they're just gonna they're just literally gonna plaster it on the entire screen for five seconds we see Goatsy. Imagine if that happened every single time you watch a comedy movie.

Every single time there's a joke, Goatsey for five seconds. You'd be annoyed. You'd be annoyed. And you'd be like, why do you have to do that? Every single, why is this the standard? This isn't even from the movie. The characters in the universe aren't even referencing Goatsy. You're just showing this to me as the filmmakers.

I don't want to see it. It's disgusting. It's stupid. It's manipulative. Right? It's so irritating. I think there are bad jump scares, but, I think, like, if you're putting it that way, like, non-diagetic music then is also not part of, like, the movie itself, but it's expressing, like, people's feelings and emotions.

Oh, you're absolutely correct. You're absolutely correct, but it's way less manipulative. Yeah, I mean, I guess for me, I'm fine with it if it's done well, you know? Like, I think that it's like a tradition of horror movies that, you know, when it's put in there unnecessarily. Or you can tell when, like, a filmmaker is just kind of, like, doesn't have the sauce. they're trying to just like crank up the tension and be manipulative. But I really didn't think this movie did that in a negative way. Like, I don't know.

It just, it wasn't overbearing the couple times that it happened, at least not for me. It was overbearing to me. It was absolutely manipulative and just, just irritating as fuck. Couldn't stand it. Yeah, I don't know. I also felt like it was just crossing over a bunch of different genres, so that just didn't really bug me because, like, it was. I don't know. It wasn't particularly scary to me. It was more intriguing or interesting.

The whole spin on the vampires than being these, like, musical vampires, I thought was really cool in the way that was all feeding into this idea of music and the cultural appropriation kind of stuff that is poking at. I thought it was actually really interesting. You kind of want to see more of that. I would agree in the second half of the film. That's kind of what I'm getting at, too, where the first hour of it really works for me as a drama. And almost like a, I don't know, it's like building up to like an action drama thriller, then becomes more of a supernatural vampire, pulpy horror thing. Yeah.

Which is cool. It's like ambitious. So you guys don't like the uneven nature of it? But it's not that I don't like the uneven nature. It's just that I think that it works way better when it's taking itself less seriously. Oh, so you prefer. The second half. Yeah.

You prefer the second half over the first. Alex prefers the first half over the second half. I think I prefer the, yeah. Well, to me it's like a strange issue I have where it's simultaneously too short and too long. So I said about the pacing, like it's not working for me. But I could also see a movie that like the thing, if we're getting at the carpenter type comparisons. That's more of like a bottle thing that it becomes in the second half and the whole idea of these vampires that are trying to get permission to come in. That's awesome and cool.

But then also that first half is just kind of like a good Western, like building up these characters and this intrigue of these KKK people and stuff like that. But that also is like rushed over at the end in like a different way. So I either need this longer or more concise because like things like hour 40 or like a hateful late bottle movie that's more sort of indulgent in the day. dialogue in this one location. Yeah, it just felt more scatterbrain to me. Okay. All right. Well, I feel like a lot of my issues with, you know, not buying the coolness of Michael

B. Jordan and also being irritated by the, uh, the jump scares and I don't know, just kind of like bored. Uh, I think a lot of that, uh, did result from the tone taking itself a little too seriously in the first half. Like if it was like the second half throughout, then I would probably enjoy it more. You know, not saying that it shouldn't be two different tones, but just that one tone worked a lot better for me. If those same jump scares and the same like pretend cool things, you know, exist in the second half, it's just not as much of an issue because of what the film is trying to express and the tone that it's delivering. See, I really liked Michael B. Jordan in this and like how you're not even thinking for a second that it's the same actor.

they really is really just feels like twins interacting um so i'm not crazy and the little subtle characterizations um like the i don't know i won't spoil anything but there's a stone with a handprint on it i thought it was like a really nice cool touch um the the fact they both have these different like fleshed out relationships and the way that communicates the themes or uh just what what they're going for um i don't i thought they was really good actually as a lead and was keeping me intrigued. I just felt like there was something just left with those characters. I want to see, I don't know, wrapped up in a different way or I'm really finding it difficult to describe exactly what I would want this movie to be, but the way it is presented, I was kind of, was losing me,

especially once that action begins. There was something kind of muddy about it for me and it was like, man, I don't know. Maybe it's just that like genre switch or that that that, that, that feeling. I don't know how to get at it with this one. What's interesting to me is like it's it's weird having a film that kind of intentionally tries to do a genre switch when vampires show up and it's like is that an is that like an homage or a nod to from dust till done? Because that's there's like you know that that's a huge example. Yeah, that very much seemed like it to me. Right? Yeah. And then it's like I don't know. I feel like I like I like. that movie better. It's cheesier, sure. But yeah, this movie didn't really leave me with too much by the

end of it. It was a little too long. Yeah, I kind of agree. I haven't really been thinking about it, but I'm curious what are the things that made it cohesive for you, Jake. Yeah, I want to hear you nerd out to why it's great, Jake. All right, here's why you both are wrong. Get owned. No, I feel a weight of responsibility as someone who love this. And, I saw you guys' takes on, or are your ratings at least? And I was like, oh, man, I gave this 10, you know, 10 stars or 10 out of 10. And I'm like, I love this movie. This worked perfectly for me.

Everything that you guys are kind of bombing up against, I totally understand why you are, you know, with the tone, with the genre switch, with, it is uneven. It has pacing problems. It has five different endings. And I think it is better because of it. I think that sometimes, like, I really love that this movie went out there to try these different things. And I think that if it had decided to hone in on one, either the schlocky side or on the serious side, either one of those, it wouldn't be as special or unique as what it is and what it's going for. I kind of think about, like, I don't know, I like Roger Ebert. I, like, read so many of his reviews when I was younger.

and I had like this app with all of his great movie reviews on it. And a lot of times he would do like retakes of movies he reviewed in the past. And he would talk about like, you know, like this movie isn't perfect. It has flaws, but it is a great movie. And then he'd give it like a perfect rating after that. And I kind of feel a similar way when I rate things. Like I can see what's wrong with the searchers. I see flaws in certain scenes.

You can see a car in the background. in The Surgers, you know, like there are issues with that movie, but I think it's a perfect movie. So that's kind of like my philosophy of where I'm reading things. And I think that this movie is, I feel like it's going to stand the test of time. I feel like what it's going for. And it's a movie about the history of blues music. It's about blues. It's about the Jim Crow South.

It's about, you know, America. It's messy. It's big. But it's also like a shlocky vampire. John Carpenter movie, you know, with a literal, like, the thing homage. Yeah, that was fun. I like that scene. I feel like it has what I was looking for. Maybe it could have been longer on the whole vampire stuff, but, you know, the way that it uses music to become something so much more than what it just could have been. I went in with not super high expectations just because I have never really loved

the Ryan Cougler movie. I like Creed and stuff, but I did not see this coming. You know, this is so original and just full of love for, you know, I love, you know, I've been to Clarksdale. I love that, you know, learning about history of, you know, the South and all the music that came out of it. So I thought that this movie just did so much justice to exploring that. And like you guys said, that scene in the middle of the movie is fantastic, you know,

where we get to see the history of music and how it's all blended together. And I thought that the way it's set up against the vampires who sing Irish music, you know, like Remick is an Irish vampire and how, you know, we're kind of looking at the way music is appropriate and culture is appropriated and how, you know, the Irish and black Americans have been, you know,

oppressed, you know, and how, those, how Remick is deciding to, is like using vampirism as a metaphor for, you know, assimilating or, you know, whatever, that sort of thing. So it's, there's a lot to be taken there. It's a big, messy movie, and I really love that about it. It's funny that I was looking, you guys, when we reviewed Nashville, another 10 out of 10 for me, you guys also gave that movie six out of tens. And it's funny, too, because I feel like there are a lot of similarities. there between, you know, Nashville's a movie also about distinctly American music. It's messy. It has lots of characters. Right. You know, has some boring moments. I mean, that's what's kind of

thrilling about this movie to me is that it really takes its time. It has lots of characters that I really felt for these people when they got into this situation with the vampires, you know, like Delroy Lindo. Like, he was just a standout. Like he, this movie gave him a monologue talking about his friend being lynched in the car, you know, when the they're driving. And it's like, what movie is going to give him that moment and then, you know, have a whole the thing section where they're eating garlic, you know? Like, it's so, I love that. It even has like that guitar riff when the vampires show up. It really isn't afraid to be like, yeah, we're talking about these serious topics, but also vampires. And if there's any big flaw for me

for this movie, and it didn't really hurt the movie. Obviously, I'm still giving it like a 10 out of 10 because I love it so much. But if anything, I think Ryan Coogler maybe loves these characters too much that at the end of the film, he doesn't really know how to say goodbye. And I don't know if that final scene should have been a post-credit scene. I feel like I should have just rolled before the credits. But yeah, that's my takeaway. That was the longest and weirdest post-credit scene also.

And it is funny. I also got those same comments, Alex, when people saw my six out of ten, they're like, I wonder if he left before the post credits and then he would have liked it more. No, I was there. I didn't for the record. I saw it. Yeah. I did see it.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a funny comment, but I was literally packing my stuff up and then another entire scene started playing. It's a long scene, yeah. Yeah, going back to the, like, kind of way the vampire allegory stuff is used. Am I, like, being dumb? I'm just trying to figure out, like, why, because you're saying about the Irish, like, Jack O'Connell's obviously Irish, and he's like the evil vampire, the bloodsucking vampire in the movie. Why is he specifically Irish and singing the Irish music when it is such an oppressed sort of group of people?

I'm trying to pass, like, why, what it's saying with that, or if I'm just overthinking it and it's just kind of pulpy, more about the music. I'm just trying to figure out what, like, what that is. getting out. Yeah, no. I mean, I think there's different takeaways you can have. It might just be like this is part of the character. He happens to be Irish. But I think that, you know, the way that maybe black music is historically been taken and used and

brought into other types of music and has been the foundation for, you know, rock and roll and all these things that white artists end up using, I think that, you know, you could maybe draw parallel to Irish Americans, you know, coming to this country and now are not really seen as an oppressed class, you know, unlike, you know, black Americans and throughout history, you know, and so I think that you could be drawn there. I think, you know, the way the vampires are trying to bring them in and be all the same, you know, there's a kind of like, we're all together. We have this no distinctions between us and how there's kind of... of something wonderful about it.

I really think that Remick is very persuasive in his arguments of like, you know, these people hate you, you know, the clan is going to try to kill you, you know, all this stuff. But, you know, there's the power of Miles Katten, you know, he plays preacher boy. His music is drawing the vampires to him. I love that metaphor of like just the power of music and how, you know, trying to bring that in to take away the stinction. I mean, I guess it's, you could just see it simply as like, oh, yeah, it's blues music being, you know, erased in the power of that in what made it distinct. But, I mean, maybe I'm not doing the best job explaining it because I feel like

I guess I just, yeah, would have loved to have seen some, like, parallel or maybe with the, just expansion on the Irish side specifically, like if that, if that remit character was expanded on, maybe, or I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I don't think. I think it's a neat thing. I think what you're saying is you'd like to have seen a Jordan Peel film. I think he would have done a better job. Maybe, I don't know. But there's also that commentary is baked in, like the is in there.

I don't think it's a neat parallel, you know. That's what I like is that it's not like a one-to-one of like, oh, this is what this means, you know. I think that it's very open to interpretation. And it foregrounds the characters themselves. as individuals, I think. You know, that's kind of what I like about it. Yeah, I did find myself actually wishing that I was watching a Jordan Peel film instead watching this film.

Because he's just so much more stylized and I feel like this concept would lend itself really well to that sort of stylization. I found myself in this film just begging for more of a visual voice. Like, it's a clean looking film. It's a well-shot film, but it just, like, it lacked anything that would make me interested in the visuals. It lacked, like, the interesting framing that you can see. Like, even if you were just to watch a fucking trailer for any one of Jordan Peel's films right now, you'd be like, oh, wow. You know, this overhead shot where they, the, the,

family's shadows are walking and how that plays into the shadow version of themselves in the film us like he's always thinking about those kinds of things like he's such a fantastic visual director that like yeah so much of this film I was just wishing like damn I wish this was a Jordan peel movie instead I don't know I love the visuals I thought the visuals were stunning and served exactly what it needed to um I mean just the framing of the shots the blocking the choreography. It's not loud. It's not in your face or obvious with, you know, metaphor or subtext, but it's, you know, the way just it's filmed between the, when they're standing in the doorway. Like, that could be so messy and clumsy. And it's, it's a very like, I don't know,

Hoxian or like John Carpenter. It's very clean and the blocking is very like classical. I don't think it has to be show-offy or extra stylized. I think it does exactly what it needs to. Yeah. You get a great impression of the landscape too for that first hour like that. Yeah, it really sells the like 30s period piece nature of it, too. Yeah, I'm just talking about what I would rather have had. Because I agree, it is clean, it is well shot. It's just, I need something more, you know, especially if the story is going to be this slow.

If it's going to be two hours and 20 minutes, I definitely need something more in that category. So what was slow about the movie to you? Like what particular scenes or moments? Well, if I'm not really into the two, I mean, the stack and smoke characters. And I'm, you know, I'm most attached to the singer character who appears in like, I don't know, it feels like he's like 10 or 15% of the movie, you know, then things do kind of feel slow.

When I'm not buying the fake coolness of Michael B. Jordan and I'm just kind of wishing that I was getting more screen time with the characters that I do enjoy, then yeah, it's, it's, uh, for a that doesn't really get into what it's what the meat of it is until like an hour through like it's a lot of buildup but I just I didn't find the build up that interesting like it wasn't that substantive to me so interesting that's so interesting so it's almost like the inverse of how I feel really into those characters and I felt like I was it was losing me with how it was concluding and as Jake was kind of getting it was really struggle to let go of it And it's a good problem to have for me to be like, man, I wish I wish I saw more of this character or this character got a more satisfying arc or whatever.

I especially liked Der Roy Linda. I thought he was really fun. Yeah. But it was more like a lot of this stuff I feel like I just like more on paper and in premise than actually sitting down and watching. Because the big thing for me was like it was hovering more so around like a seven for me, a three and a half star or so. But then, yeah, it came to its conclusion. And then I was just thinking to myself, would I watch that again? Should I watch that again?

And I was like, I'd rather watch something else, to be honest. I can't see myself revisiting this anytime soon, which is a shame. And I kind of wish I could be on the level with everyone else. But I just, I can't lie about my experience with it. It did really lose me towards the end. Yeah. Spoilers. Was anybody else pissed when he teleported behind the villain at the last second?

No. Or was that different? Yeah, I was fucking pissed. Yeah. It's the exact same fucking issue I have with the jump scares where it's just like, it just, it feels so disrespectful, you know? It just felt so fucking stupid. I was just so irritated. Irritated.

I think that's part of that switch, right? The meticulous nature of that sort of first hour. And then for it to become the, the pulpy stabbing each other with stakes stuff. I don't know. I just didn't feel as satisfying to me. I like that it leaned into the pulp. I like the tropeiness of, you know, all right, we're doing the, everyone get their guns together and get prepared to, you know, it's a siege movie, you know, we're surrounded.

I love all those little things. I mean, the little, what? You just reminded me of more things that I was pissed off about. Oh, please. Okay. Finish and then I'll talk about it. No, no, go ahead. Okay, so there's like, in the exterior shots, we see like fucking hundred,

of vampires, right, before they all get let in. And then we have this buildup and I'm like, I'm really into the buildup. I'm really into the buildup. I think that what it's doing in terms of presenting a conflict, like obvious conflict of, oh, they're all outside. There's a lot of them. What are you going to do? They're clearly outnumbered.

We've seen them kill X amount of characters so far. And then right as soon as the character who, I guess she lost her husband and is worried about her kids or something. She's like, come on in, motherfuckers, or whatever the line was. And then as soon as that action scene starts, just the everything that it was building up gets absolutely fucking decimated for me. Because it just, it doesn't feel as though there's the same threat that was communicated before the doors were opened. The same threat is no longer there. They're all showing up in the building very haphazardly, like kind of like one by one, just convenient enough for each character to be able to fight.

I'm like, what happened to the fucking hoard? What happened to the entire horde? That's the reason why the buildup worked is because there were so many of them. But I guess most of them are just going to stay inside and only 10 of them are going to show up. Like, okay, it was so lame. Just like, you don't need to be as intricate as like the crazy 88s from Quentin Tarantino's Kill Bill, right? You don't need to go that fucking hard in terms of like trying to communicate one character fighting a horde of enemies at once. But you have to make it something where it doesn't feel like you just kind of

pushed out of your own concept. You have to make it feel like you didn't just abandon what you were setting up. That was just so irritating to me. It was so cheap. It was so stupid. It did kind of lose me there because I loved that buildup of them. People are trying to sneak their way in, like blag their way in. That was really cool to me.

I love that. And then it didn't deliver at all. And going back to the death of Remick when he gets stabbed, Surprisingly, I really thought for sure they were building up for the musician, the Sammy Moore character, that he was going to use his broken guitar as a stake or something. I thought that would have been quite cool instead of the magic Michael B. Jordan. But yeah. Magic be Jordan. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I can see that. I think that there is that suspension of belief, you know, of like when the vampires do attack, we see how fast they are and skilled at killing, you know. So we have to kind of take that the characters can handle at least some of them at a certain amount of time. I mean, I can accept it because I'm like, you know, this would be boring if it just suddenly ends with everyone being killed immediately, you know? They don't have to be killed. They don't have to be killed. We just have to see that what the threat was actually shows up, that they didn't just like puss out of it. Right.

I'm not saying every character should be killed. I'm just saying show the threat that you were building up. it makes the buildup feel so fucking disingenuous. That's what I want is like authenticity. That's what I want is like to it's the same thing as like what you were mentioning with Thunderbolts earlier. You kind of know that they're not going to actually kill the child character. You kind of know that, right?

If a movie is going to tease something, if a movie is going to like say you should be scared or you should feel this way because here are the stakes, then you should be able to believe that those stakes exist. And that doesn't mean killing everybody. That just means show them fighting. Show them showing up in the way that you were like either don't have 200 of them outside so that we don't have to be scared about there being 200 of them outside. I either don't have them there to begin with or just show them in the way that you would

have people wanting to be scared about. It's like there were only 10 of them. It's just so irritating. I can't stand it. I'm triggered. I'll be honest, it didn't even occur to me when I was watching the movie because I was so with the characters, you know. Yeah, I saw lots of stakes.

Yeah. I guess also saying it like, it's in the top 250 right now on IMDB, for example. Nice. I think so. I don't think it is anymore. It's not. It's already moved. Yeah.

Well, I guess what I'm getting out is just more the way it's being spoken about, I guess. I just, I'm not in line with quite so much. Like, it's a good movie. I'm really happy that an original script is doing well, and it's not bombing, like, all the other stuff. Yeah, same. Mickey 17 is your black bags. I'm really happy about that.

It's just my experience with it doesn't match the broader experience people are having with it, which is fine. I enjoy it, by all means. Yeah. I mean, I'm usually skeptical of, of this kind of, like, overhype and praise of a movie like this. And I was extremely surprised that I came out with the opinion I had. You know, like, for whatever reason, this movie just clicked with me on all levels. You know, it's just the right amount of vampire stuff, the exact amount of schlucky, pulpy action with serious, you know,

drama. Like, it just, it worked. Yeah, you can't explain it. But yeah, I wish you guys enjoyed it more or had a better time. Yeah. I really wanted to like it, as I do with everything. Yeah, I liked a lot about it. It's complicated. I also liked a lot about it. Like, the score was great.

Yeah, it was. Love the concept, you know, certain characters I loved. I like a lot of the characters, yeah. I really love how they depict the relationships there between, you know, Mary and Stack and Smoke and Annie. especially smoke and Annie. I thought their relationship was so unique. We find out they have a child who died and the way smoke is trying to handle that.

I just love how his arc is resolved with, you know, killing all the clan members and then dying himself. That was such a weird scene. Like, in terms of it fitting in the rest of the movie, I'm like, oh, you're going to have a little fun, cool. Yeah? I was like, yeah, why not? It was just, that felt like fan servicey. Yeah, it was funny.

It felt like the end of the movie they didn't have vampires in. If Tarantino can do it, you know, let's go there. It just, it did feel like an extra scene, though, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I really love when Sammy, you know, makes that choice. Like, he has to make that choice. You'd think at the end of the film, he's holding onto the, his guitar and we see, you know, of course, at the beginning of the movie, when he shows up at church, having gone through some kind of trauma, we now, you know, saw that whole night experience.

and, you know, he makes the choice to hold onto the guitar. I found that deeply moving, you know, the way he chooses music over. Like, he literally has seen the devil in the eyes, you know, in the flesh. And he's like, I choose music, you know, and I don't know, I just found that very moving and authentic. I found in the last scene, the post credits, the guy who they got to play the musician, wasn't a great actor which sucked because his younger version was a great actor

well he's not an actor buddy guy that was buddy guy okay that's what I thought yeah because I saw buddy guy in the credits I'm like damn South Park I'm not your buddy guy he was not very good but I could forgive it because he's a musician in real life right yeah I was like oh I get it like it's cool

like you actually have the real you know musician instead of an actor I think that I was okay with that I don't know to what point did he play music in the end scene? Yeah. Could they not have? Yeah, at the beginning of the end scene. That's one of those things where it's like, you know, you get fucking, uh, what's his name?

Something McCrary to play the kid in the Lion King 2019. It's like you can you can get someone else's voice for the singing. And it's a thing that's been traditionally done in movies. throughout history and the audience won't notice. So perhaps his casting was just a nod to the musician. Just like, way to go, buddy guy. I guess it was, yeah, symbolic too. That's an example of an imperfection.

Like, yeah, his performance isn't perfect, but I think it makes the movie better because of it. Okay. I kind of disagree, but I just, I wish I wasn't in that scene thinking about how the acting was bad. I wish I was just in the scene. Good movie. I would recommend it to people.

People seem to be enjoying it. It's just not, I mean, I enjoyed it. It's just certain aspects that trigger the fuck out of me. And things are all starting to make sense now, recently being diagnosed with ADHD and probably autism, but not officially, that certain things would irritate the fuck out of me. that maybe not other people might experience. So this is the...

Are you blaming ADHD for why you didn't like sinners? No, I did like it. I'm blaming my neurospiciness on why I perceive the world differently. And if anybody gives me shit over that, then they are ablest. You're being ablest. Yes, ablest. And I've been sick with other things that my brain's broken. So I have every excuse in the world.

And you're ableist and bad. Thank you. Six out of ten. Everyone's going to have a different experience, right? Exactly. Unless you're a Nazi. I'm exactly the, with the rating. But we've got, quite like, I have the same rating,

a completely different of reasonings as though how we got there. It's very fun. Yeah. Yeah, I do like it, and I do kind of wish I liked it more. But it's just too, too messy for me. They're like two different versions and two different timelines of this movie that would be better in totality, but it's not really this one,

and I can't see myself visiting it anytime soon again. So, yeah, this is a very strong high three stuff, I mean. All right, well, I guess the podcast is over. Fuck you guys. No, I think I'm going to take the bold stance and say that I respect your opinions, and I think you guys deserve to give three out of five. stars to a movie. I don't think that's a bad thing. So I, you know, I'm okay. I'm okay. Yeah,

as a, as a sinner's super fan, I'm just going to say, it's okay that you only sort of liked it. I don't think it makes you bad people. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I enjoyed it quite a bit. I think people should at least check it out. I mean, you guys agree. Like it's worth, you know, checking out. Yeah, I wasn't. Yeah, definitely. I didn't feel like my time was wasted, I guess. Yeah.

I'm just, I'm not going to see it again, that's for sure. Mm-hmm. All right. Questions? All right. Let's do some questions then from the Sardonikas community. Head over to the suggestion thread over on the subreddit. If you want to leave questions for future episodes, just like this particular one I need to find.

Sorry, I got so many. Give me one second. Take me one second. Take this out. to well while you're doing that i'll pee that um that's not it well does okay i just found it what's what this guy pee in all the time like what the hell so those uh what's it cool we don't have it here lacroys he loves those lacroys man oh man you know i hope i hope this stays on the podcast so people can hear shit talking at him yeah yeah okay i did it said don't take this out

actually leave it all right yeah While the shade can we throw you? Um, man, he used to have long hair. Now it's short. Like, pick a style, dude. Yeah, what's that about? Oh, man. Yeah.

You can mind up, dude. Ridiculous. And, like, the Lion King is only just okay. Like, I don't know what the big deal is. Yeah. It's fine. Yeah. Whatever.

And we felt so it was kind of better. All right. I'm back. Oh, yeah. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Make sure that stays in.

I found the question. J-Dog-2597 can get this started then. Have you seen anything about the new rule for Academy Voters for the Oscars pertaining to them having to watch all of the movies in a category in order to vote for them? Do you think this will have any sort of impact in how the Academy votes for films going forward, or do you think we will still end up with baffling decisions, i.e. Bohemian Rhapsody winning Best editing. Yeah, so how are they going to enforce this? I don't know how they're going to enforce that, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Because there's already been, like, there's so many academy voters that every,

there's so many instances of news publications getting interviews with anonymous academy voters. And already since this announcement, there's an article talking about how one of them was saying, oh, yeah, I'll just click play on the web portal thing. that tracks that I've watched the movie, and then I'll go and do something else and not watch it. Right. So they're already saying how there's ways to get around this, and you can't actually enforce it. So who knows? I just think that, like, maybe you should only have people in the academy voting on things

if they're going to take it seriously. Yeah, it's funny that this is like a rule at all, that, like, even needs to be brought up because it's like, well, I guess you weren't doing this as the implication. Yeah. It's an issue enough for you to need to enforce it in some way. or at least it don't do. That's crazy. I mean, at least they're trying to,

I think it'll ensure that more of them will watch movies. I mean, in all likelihood, at least some more of them will take it seriously and watch all of the movies instead of just the fun ones. But yeah, I mean, I think it's stupid that it even has to be a rule they have to enforce. Yeah, and like, I'm of the mindset where, like, okay, if a movie is not doing it for you in the first fucking thing, 30 minutes, then you can pretty safely say that it's not going to be your favorite out of the

ones you have to select from. So, just all you have to do is just like, try to watch a movie. And if it's not your thing, it's not your thing, right? But there are interviews from Academy voters from last year just being like, they didn't even start the brutalist because of the runtime. And it's like, okay, well, you didn't even start the movie. Like, what if you, why are you, I get it. The runtime is a little daunting.

you might not want to watch something that feels like it's that long, but it doesn't. It doesn't feel like it's that long. That's why it's so good. Yeah, it puts so many people off. I showed it to somebody by tricking them. Oh, yeah. The Brutelisk by saying, I know how this looks.

This is intimidating, right? But how about we just watch to the midpoint. There's an intermission. We can just stop there and watch it. The rest another day or whatever. Yeah. But then we got there and it was like, oh no, let's keep going. This is awesome.

Exactly. You're energized. It's a very watchable film. I don't know. It doesn't seem like too much to ask. But yeah, I mean like I understand having to make that argument for your friend. It's funny that we would have to make that argument for academy voters. Can we just like watch maybe like a little bit of the movie and then if you don't like it, we can turn it out?

like, guys, you're voting on it. You're voting on it. And we're not even talking about, by the way. We're not even talking about all of the voting.

This is after the shortlist. This is once the shortlist has already been made and it's the official, the official five movies per category, basically. We're not even talking about shortlist shit.

This is just the actual votes for the actual Oscars. And they still can't be bothered to try. try and watch a movie? To try. Here's my opinion. I think that it's actually going to result in weirder winners because now I think there's

going to be a lot of people who won't even vote. They're just going to be like, oh, I have to watch all these shorts in order to vote on that category. Ah, fuck it. Whatever. Oh, my God. Yeah. There'll be like three people that vote in the shorts category.

This might, yeah, we'll see where it goes. I mean, all the old people who are like, I'll just vote for my friend. You know, I'll vote for Julia Roberts because she's nice to me, you know, it'll change. I don't know. It's going to be a weird, we'll see how it changes. It'll be fun. Yeah. I'm actually, yeah, I'm intrigued to see where it goes because it could go anywhere.

We have no idea. Yeah. Yeah, I hope it gets results, even though that bar watching them seems low. Yeah. It could make the Oscars much worse. It could. I guess. Let's do this one from Coltrane 16.

I'd like to play devil's advocate in response to Adam's derision of American audiences clapping at the end of movies in the theatre. Going to the theatre is an inherently social experience. I'm not saying it should be encouraged to talk during the movie or throw chickens at the screen, of course. But I am saying that when you watch a movie alongside other people, even strangers in a dark room, you're all sharing the experience together to a certain degree. When people clap at the end of the movie, they're not literally applauding the people who work. on it, they're expressing joy in a somewhat communal fashion.

I think you could compare it to the polite small talk and other kinds of fatic expression. Not saying you should clap at the end of a movie, I don't think I've ever done so myself, but I do think to clarify that it's not just a case of dumb Americans being dumb. Oh, I didn't say it was dumb Americans being dumb.

Pretty sure I didn't use those words, but okay, yeah, I agree. I like to clap at the end of movies that are bad, like Madam Webb. do you actually yeah it's fun I clap at film festivals

when the people who made it like are there I don't know that's the only real time I do it yeah I got that reasoning though it's just I just can't really relate because I'm not American obviously so yeah

Jake do you clap at the end of every movie you watch at home by yourself I think I said this before I just stand up and salute oh yeah true until the credits are done. But, no, I actually like, because I live out in the suburbs and our movie theater is, like, very poorly attended all the time.

And I see movies at, like, 2 p.m. on a Thursday, usually, so no one's in there. But I really like it when others are in there, like, enjoying having a good time. Because if I'm watching, like, a shitty movie, I'm not enjoying. But there are others in there who are, like, laughing and having fun, then, you know, I don't know. It feels, yeah, you get that sense of community, like a communal experience. I don't mind it. I mind when people are being assholes and are just being noisy and loud.

Like, I watched, what's that? No, no, no. What's the Miyazaki film, the recent one that came out? The boy in the heroin. I watched that and there were these people there who were just laughing at everything that clearly wasn't supposed to be a joke. They're just laughing because it's weird, you know? Yeah, that sucks. That shit drives me fucking nuts.

Like, shut the fuck up. Like get a sense of the read the room, read the film, context clues. Like, it's not supposed to, like laugh when it's supposed to be funny, not just because you think it's dumb or weird, you know. I'm going to push back on that. I'm going to say if it's inauthentic laughter and they're just doing it for attention, I agree with you. But if it's genuine laughter, I don't think we should be policing what some people find funny and other people don't. Because I've seen movies where I've been the only one in the theater not laughing at things and everybody else is laughing. And I'm like, okay, right?

Like, I'm bothered by it. But as a person that is not a normie, I guess, I have to put up with that. So then other people should have to put up, if I find something funny in a movie and I laugh and nobody else is laughing, then other people, you know, they get to feel what I've been feeling for 90% of the time. They get to feel it 10%. I'm conflicted on that. Because like an example that flashes into my mind was when I saw hereditary. and the lamp post scene happened like some people burst out laughing

and that kind of was like I don't think they can help it if they found it funny though yeah I guess I don't know but it also kind of like ruin the moment a little bit for me yeah that's the risk you take when you're watching a film socially right I think there's a line of like if if you're like just overly doing it and like I get there are times when you laugh because it's just like oh I can't believe how bad this scene is

but other people are taking it seriously, you know? But if you're just like, I'm going to be indulgent and just like make this a laugh riot and I don't care if other people are having a good time and this is annoying. Like I saw Ron, the Akira Kurosawa film a long time ago in San Francisco. And they, they, there were people there, maybe like five people or whatever. But they were of the same group and they were laughing together at every moment because it's a big exaggerated movie and people are, you know, making big exaggerated faces and expressions. Because they were high.

Yeah, probably. Yeah, that's always what I assume. Because, like, I don't know what's really funny about that film. Like, it's an incredible film. Yeah. It's a fucking tragedy. King Lear. Like, if you want to have that time and, like, laugh and have a bonding experience

between yourselves, go do that in the comfort of your room or whatever in your living room. But, yeah, especially if you're already in a group. You're doing it for yourself. You got a vibe. You got a vibe with the audience, you know. And just like respect the movie at least. I was agreeing with you up until you said you got a vibe with the audience. To some people, it's not possible.

You cannot enforce a different emotional experience. If someone finds something funny genuinely and they're not doing it in a way where they're trying to be an asshole. So I'll give you an example. So if I go to a movie like, you know, that I'm expecting to be bad, not quite Madam Webb. Because I would say Madam Webb, I think maybe everybody attending is like, there to laugh. Ironically, they... Which is, yeah.

It makes things complicated, right? Like, it's not the intention of the artist, but like, what's the intention of those around you? So, Madam Webb, like, that's in that area where, like, most people maybe might want to laugh. A Neil Breen film, people are there to laugh, right? It's not the intention of the artist. But something kind of, like, in between where I think that a trailer

looked really funny, or I heard that it's supposed to be really bad, but the general audience might not know. So something like Serenity. with Matthew McConaughey. I went into that movie wanting to laugh. I went in with a couple friends. There were not that many people in the theater, but what I do is I make sure that like, okay,

I see where the other people are seated. I'm going to go a little bit closer to the front. In case I laugh, I don't want to be disturbing to these people that are trying to take the movie seriously, even if I don't think it's possible to take the movie that seriously. I don't want to ruin that experience

for other people that might be trying to, right? And then when I do laugh, I'm not, you know, as if I'm in an actual comedy movie. I'm not going like, ha ha! I'm kind of snickering and like, you know, trying my best to hold it back, maybe doing a couple wheezes, like things that. No, exactly. That's being respectful. Exactly. Exactly.

That's like you're considering other people. It's conscientious. Yeah. Yeah. But I entirely disagree with the even hovering the idea of like trying to conform your emotional experiences to those around you because that's just not how. people's brains work and you know no no absolutely no of course i get that i just mean like if everyone in the room was watching serenity and they were all like yeah this is terrible let's just laugh at it

then yeah then like yeah just let it out and have a good time but like yeah like i've seen movies where i'm like i'm laughing at this i think this is a horrible movie and it's so funny to me but i'm trying to like trying to contain it you know to like lower decibels you know there's a way to do it that's a little respectful there's definitely a balance that you have to strike with yourself where, you know, at a certain point, it's impossible for me to watch a movie where if I'm feeling something enough from a film emotionally, whether that be like shock or awe or humor, right? There's, there's a certain point where it's going to be impossible for me to not show that at all, right? Like, even if it's

something as simple as me, like, raising my arms from. having just been on my legs to maybe a half a foot above my legs and doing kind of like a confused gesture with my arms like that's not that's not even intentional at that point that's like a like that's just a visceral um um action reaction reaction it's not even conscious is what i'm trying to say right so there's there are certain things where it's like i almost become self-conscious it if someone were to notice something from somewhere near me and noticing that I'm not experiencing the same art in the way that they are. You know, at a certain point, what can you do?

What can you do? You got to understand that other people have different brains and that's it. But yeah, it's just as long as you're being conscious of other people around you, as long as you're trying not to ruin things in one direction or the other, then I think that's fine. Just remember that other people's brains exist. It's good question. Yeah. Well luckily in the UK you need a laughing license to laugh in public so we're good now. You're having a giggle mate. A giggle license, yeah. Fuck. Let's do this one from Shadow Conspiracy. With Tron Aries coming out soon, what are y'all

thoughts on the original Tron and Tron legacy? Is that how it's pronounced? How do you say it? I thought like Ares Like the god right Okay I thought Aries was A-R-I-E-S Yeah And then what is A-R-E-S Is that something

Is that the Oh it's the god It can be both Okay That's why I was confused All right thank you Go on Did you think it was Tron Ares

I saw this trailer It was kind of like You know what Fuck it man This kind of looks good I'm kind of down for this The trailer And not just because of

of N-N being at the end, like, but also kind of because Ninn is doing the score. Oh, yeah, it's print. The whole thing is about, like, being sucked into the game. And there's just something that just feels inherently low stakes to me, even though the characters, the human characters can die or whatever. They just feels like reversing that seems inherently more high sakes. Excited for Jared? Yeah, it's a shame he's in there.

I don't know if you've seen his weird stuff lately. He's another one that's like gone on Joe Rogan and had these weird glazing ritual from Joe Rogan. Really? Jared Leto's gun on Joe Rogan? I need to watch. Yeah, it's completely real. And then he's like defending his like weird compound. Oh no. Old military compound or something, Jared Lerick.

He's just a weird dude, really intense and freaky dude. I can't find it. Are you hallucinating? Did he actually go on Joe Rogan or something else? Yeah, I swear he did. I've like seen. Or maybe I'm getting mixed up with Joe Rogan defending him. Okay.

On his show or something. Yeah. He met him or so? Yeah, maybe that was misspeaking. Maybe he didn't actually go on the show. But I saw a clip of him, at least, talking about Jared Leto and defending him and saying how awesome of a duty is. Okay. But yeah, it's a shame he's in Ares in the same way as a shame he was in Blade Runner,

and I wish that was David Bowie, as it was supposed to be. That would have just been the cherry on top, I think, if he managed to be in that. but uh it's got a jillian anderson though so that kind of balances out um i don't know did you enjoy the other tron films no that's the weird thing i just don't give a shit about this franchise okay that's why i'm confused about your perspective here yeah yeah especially the original like the like it's maybe if you saw it when you're a kid in the 80s and might have a soft spot for it but it's it's aged extremely badly to me yeah it's kind of boring there's some

stuff in trond legacy i enjoy uh especially that duff punk school incredible there's such a disparity between the actual score and yeah they did the score yeah it's a really good like I just listened to that

that score it's amazing and it's got some good action scenes and some good scale to it and the dude the dude is just like in it like as the dude so I dig that about it but it's not a very good film

yeah I find it interesting that they're crediting nine inch nails and not just Trent Resner yeah yeah I found that interesting too for the score they're like this no this is nine inch nails This is the branded Trent Rezner.

What's with what's with the Tron movies getting all the best musicians ever? It's like if the Maze Runner movies had Paul McCartney doing all the songs, you know? It's just like, do these warrant that? I mean, it's cool, but it's always like, I feel like, yeah, Tron Legacy, that's the best part of this. And I imagine that's going to be the best part of the new one. I hear you. I agree with that sentiment. But at the same time, I kind of want more movies to do that.

I wish it was the norm for like every movie to have a fucking killer soundtrack and for them to actually care about the music. At one point in time, you know, like it seemed as though that was like an industry focus in the like 90s and 2000s. Like space jam. Did that movie warrant one of the most killer fucking bangerous soundtracks of all time? One of the best selling soundtracks of all time like fucking hit after hit after hit tons of songs you wouldn't even know were from the movie and made for the movie but they were. you know like I was listening to Alia's what is the song title called like I I need somebody or something

it's a great song I love that I love that track it was made for the Dr. Doolittle soundtrack I didn't fucking know that right like there's tons of fucking hits that were just made for movies back back then I guess that's a little different than having like the entire score being composed by like nine inch nails but still I I like it I wish that it were the norm for every movie with a budget to care about the soundtrack

and not just give it to random composer for hire that will do the temp music score and I'll edit in other songs from other movies and then say, do it like that. That's way worse of an industry standard that I wish we could just get out of right now. So, yeah, I'm all for it. Yeah.

Yeah, that's cool. And also, Tron looks boring and the trailer looked boring, and I'm not going to see it. Did you see the original Tron, Jay? Yeah, yeah. The original Tron is definitely, yeah, kind of dated and it's sort of boring. I remember watching it after seeing Tron Legacy when I was a kid and I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, Tron Legacy is definitely more fun and Jeff Bridges looks horrifying. But I mean, yeah. Oh, the late age. Yeah, I forgot about that. I think my theory is that they have to make another Tron movie because they've invested so much money into the Tron ride at Disney World. Yeah.

Oh, is this like a How's Train Your Dragon remake situation? I think it might be, yeah. Yeah, because I don't think Trone Legacy actually performed very well. No, I don't think it did. Yeah. So I don't know what the thinking is here.

And then putting the Morbius guy, you know, like, I don't know. I like calling him the Morbius guy. The Morbster. Yeah. The Morbster. Box office, $409 million. budget of 170.

So depends on how many people clicked on it in Disney Plus, I guess. Oh, it did well. Probably got that. I suppose it was a while ago, too. What was that like 2011 or something? It's probably made its money back by now for sure. Have you seen that? I think it was around the press junket stuff for Morbius.

There was this just completely bizarre interview with one of those VR tubers that he did. Have you seen that? Oh, yeah, the V-tuber, yeah. The anime tuber. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, the V-tubers, sorry. All the press stuff around Mobius is like even more insane than the film itself. It's definitely worth checking out.

That's fine. All right. One more question. Let's do one more. Let's do this one from Yo Kof. Recently there's been a lot of hate on Bella Ramsey for her role in The Last of Us, stating she does not look like Ellie is ugly, not pretty, and for that reason considered it bad casting.

She's not a hot enough child. What are your thoughts on this? I feel it's bizarre because the argument is just she is not pretty enough, a child character, by the way, and usually does not have to do with her performance. I also just wanted to ask if there are some actual poorly casted roles and for what reasons? Love you guys. Look, I need every child to be hot in movies. Jesus. That's a sound fight.

I was channeling my dead friend Scoot who would have loved that joke, okay? He possessed me for a little bit. I find this conversation really strange. But I'm kind of of the opinion that I'm annoyed that the show exists outside of that one episode. And I just don't care about it. Yeah, true, actually. And I don't like the casting of either of the leads, if I'm being real. That's my hot take on The Last of Us show.

I haven't checked out any of the season two. Me neither. I watched a few episodes of the first season, I think, and I was kind of like, all right, it's kind of boring. I'm not really into it. I don't need to watch this. But I don't know, this, this whole... Did you get to the gay episode? Sorry?

Did you get to episode three? No. Watch that one. And then don't watch any other episode and you're good. You just watch it as a Stam's a loon. Yeah, it's its own contained story. Oh, is that the one with Nick Offerman? Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I heard about that one's good. Yeah, it's great. Maybe I will dive back in. But, no, I mean, this whole debate about the casting or whatever, I really don't care about it, but it just reconfirms my belief that gamers are oppressed. Annoying.

and depressed I don't know it just makes me happy that I have not played the game and know nothing about any of this I just think every single change they have made in the show is is worse than the games

even for the second game from what I hear anyway I haven't seen just a clarify I haven't seen anything from season two but some clips and whatnot and some strange dialogue and like just technical changes

that they've made they're just like man this does not look at Um, no. Yeah, um, I don't care. I mean, this is a movie podcast, not a TV podcast, so. I mean, we, we talked about season one before. We also, we've talked about games sometimes, Jake.

We've talked about games on our podcast. It's Spider-Man PS4. What do you think about that? Wow. All right. All right. Whenever, you're going to be so interested when the next Halo game comes out, and Alex and I talk about it for the entire episode.

Yeah, especially because of the fucking bet. Oh, yeah. I might actually have to duck out and raise my kid, you know, while you guys talk about that. Yeah. The bet. I forgot about that. That'll be fun. Yeah, if you ever need a day off, Alex can I talk about Halo whenever that's out?

Okay. That'll be cool, yeah. Low stakes. So what's out right now? There's a bunch of TV show shit out right now. Last of Us Season 2. There's the rehearsal season 2. The rehearsal.

I love the rehearsal. I love the rehearsal as well. I have not seen season 2 yet. I'm probably going to binge it when it's all out. Yeah, I don't know if I can wait. I was going to plan to do the same, but people are just getting so hyped. I don't know if I can wait. They're spoiling it.

They spoil the whole episode the night it comes out on Twitter. I have to watch the rehearsal episodes like the second they come out or else everyone's revealing everything. It's just fucking annoying. Hmm Well That's your mistake As being on Twitter I knew you were going to say that

Common Side Effects That's one I showed up Oh yeah That's on my list The Creator of Scavengers' Rain It's like different right It's way different

Way way way different Yeah Much more comedic It's strange Not the Scravages's reign Wasn't strange I think you'd probably dig it more

than scavengers are in, to be honest. But I love both. Yeah, I'm thinking that, actually. Weird character designs. The Alec Baldwin show. What? What's that one? The Alec Baldwin show, the show.

Oh, yeah, Black Mirror was another thing I was supposed to. The Alec Baldwin show about his family. The Baldwin's. The Baldwin's. Literally that. Right, I see. I'm sorry. say confuser's like you know I thought I just made up a title and it turns out that's a real thing

2025 the bald wins what the fuck it is I've watched some of it it's very fun Jesus Christ 3.6 out of 10 IMDV TLC yeah what the hell I'm adding that to my watch list for no reason it's funny because it's like they started producing it when he was like on trial for the yeah oh that's what I was yeah I was about to ask wait so do they dance around it yeah they they cover it, some of it, but then, like, obviously he is whatever, you know, let go or whatever, the charges are dropped. But you could tell they were kind of setting it up to be like, okay, here's a show for Hilaria and his kids when he's in jail.

Like, they were kind of, it's very interesting from that perspective, yeah, but. That's wild. Good lawyer. Yeah. Right? Shout out to the lawyer. legit all right we got to wrap this up because Jake and I have hard outs pretty soon

so normally there would be a film recommendation now but since we didn't do an actual recommendation discussion this episode there is no recommendation so what's what's happening is at the end of the next episode which will be the human centipede episode very exciting at the end of that episode both Jake and Alex will be recommending a film or two films or whatever the fuck we'll have a double recommendation for the next episode

we've never done anything like this before so I will say in case you weren't thinking about this already I will say you're allowed to conspire you're allowed to coordinate with each other you don't have to keep your recommendation secret from the other person if you want to coordinate and do something evil, if that's what you want to do. Or you can be nice, you could be a good person for once.

Yeah, it's more if I want to end the spite or not. Yeah, you could be nice about it. Yeah, it depends on the spite. Yeah. Okay, I can have to have a thing. So just letting you know you can talk with each other. Depends on if Alex wants to spite just you, Adam, or are you and me? So, you know.

I've really spotted both of you a B movie, though, so I don't know how it's just complicated. That's true. That's true. And I kind of want to... I guess, I don't know. I'll message you, Alex, because there are things we can. I don't know. I feel like Adam deserves. Honestly, Adam, you deserve what you're getting. You chose it. You chose violence. I gave you the option. And I said, hey, we could do a nice thing. And you said, no, I woke up today and I'm choosing violence. And that was you and you did it. The previous spite movie was a children's movie that was like, you know, about Jerry Seinfeld being a fucking bee.

You said, go back and listen to the episode. You said, send me your worst. Show me your worst, you said. And I said, okay. And now you're trying to take it back. You're trying to retcon like that didn't happen. You chose violence. You're going to win the cycle.

Frame it however you want. You're still going to get it once I decide what the punishment should be. Yeah, I'll get it, but you'll be, you know, morally wrong about it. You both have made careers of watching shitty fucking. movies that I'm going through, I've been going through for the past couple of weeks going like, what have they not seen and made fun of on their channels? So I'm like, fuck, please help me viewers. Get me something for these guys. Do they tweet you or what?

This episode won't even be public by the time we record them. Just send me a letter. It won't be useful by then, but you know. If you're a patron, you might, will they get this before we record that? Probably, yeah. I will figure it out. I don't know what date is. We got to go. So thanks everybody for listening. If you don't want to be spoiled for, I don't know, fucking whatever, nothing. We're doing a human centipede next episode. It's going to be great. You can listen to the show early by supporting us on Patreon. Patreon.com slash sardonicast or sardonicast.com. You can sign up for premium there. It's only a few bucks a month. You get the episodes early. Otherwise, you can click the button below the YouTube video right now that says join. You can join as a member. You get the episodes early.

You support the show. Every other fucking podcast has like 20 minutes of ads. True. You should sign up or else we're going to turn into one of those. Join. Okay? This is sponsored by better help, by the way. No.

I like how you technically said the name of the company wrong anyway, so it's fine. I did. Yeah, you did. I'm not going to say what the real name is, so it's good. Thanks for listening, everybody. There's a Sardonicast Highlights channel also. Have a happy Shrek. Have a happy centipede. Have a happy scat day or whatever. I don't know. Bye. Thanks.

Syneciki. Bye. Bye. Bye.