Sardonicast - Sardonicast 191: The Fantastic Four Movies

Episode Date: June 9, 2025

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sardonicast.bsky.social Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Jake's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ManCarryingThing Jake's movie channel: https://www.youtube.com/@womancarryingman Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/yms.bsky.social Jake's twitter: https://x.com/ManCarrying Jake's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mancarryingthing.bsky.social Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Jake's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mancarryingthing Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Timestamps: 0:00 intro 4:06 The Fantastic Four (1994) 36:32 Fantastic Four (2005) 1:06:15 Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer 1:20:19 FANT4STIC (2015) 1:55:51 Questions 2:15:58 Outro + recommendation

Three, two, one. It's clopping time. That was a line from all of the fantastic four films with no adjustments made on my end. I'm Adam from your movie sex. This is Sardonicast. Yeah, you kind of took mine. I'm Alex from I. H.E. Oh, you were going to say the same thing.

It's Sardobbering time. Oh, God. Sardobbering. What the fuck? No. That was more punishment than your guys' attempt at spite recommendation. You should have just said that at the end of the last episode. Hey, I have a good one.

I have a good one. That was pretty sardonic what you said. What are we, some kind of sardonic podcast? Oh, I like that one. Say that again? Fuck. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I get it. Yeah. Again. Guys, this sucked. Let's be real. This was such a bummer. Oh. So it was you, you did self-inflicted damage. Oh, wow.

No, you encouraged me, Alex. This was just on you as well. Fine. I'll take some of it. Well, Jake, Jake, you're responsible for the last two episodes then. I'm going to move on. You know, I'm going to be nice because you actually, I've met you. now in person for real. Yes. I visited. I feel like very briefly. Yeah, you visited my house. You were inside my room. Mm-hmm. And I don't know why I say it. It's very normal visit. You gave me a

microphone. That was very nice. You're welcome. The microphone I'm using right now, so the audience can judge now whether Adam has the better microphone or I did. I think it sounds better from the tests that I did. I think it does. I like it. I'm happy with it. But yeah, it was a good visit. We should have commemorated it with a photograph or something.

I was thinking about that, but there'll be another opportunity. The photo is in my memory, which will eventually disappear. And I'll say this. Adam, surprisingly tall. I wasn't expecting that. That's what they all say. Yeah. So it was good.

Good times. Good times. I'm glad you visited. You were also surprisingly tall. Most people are way shorter for me. Yeah, I'm like 7-1. Yeah. I'm like 8, 5. You feel small over here. Yeah, it's good. I'm just a normal horse.

Okay? Yeah, relatively normal. Yeah, you met my child. It's crazy. They were cute. You guys, yeah. You're talking about yourself or the baby? both it was plural

pronouns are there any other beginning matters to attend to before we do this any dramas any anger no I mean I'm just

I you guys I don't know I'm happy that we got to do this episode because I I think that the 94 film was a lot of fun so we

We added in the 94 film. Let's just start with the 94 film. We're here. Okay. Yeah. Happy Pride Month, everybody. We're here. We're queer.

Get used to it. Yeah. It's the gay episode. This is a gay podcast. Yeah. This is the gay one. Damn. Do I need to change my recommendation?

We dedicate the Fantastic Four to Pride Month. All right. I'll be thinking before the next end of this episode, whether or not I need to change my recommendation for Pride Month. Anyway, yeah, you should probably make it thematic. Yeah, we always forget. All right, it's 94 Fantastic Four. This film didn't get released officially, but you can find it on YouTube.

And essentially, it was only made to continue whoever holding the rights to the Fantastic Four property. And so they searched far and wide to get filmmakers who were known for making things cheap. So they got Roger Corman, who's also responsible for things like the original death race film, a lot of lowish budget but fun campy stuff in that era. The late great Roger Corman died recently, right? How recently? Oh, a couple. Oh, did it?

Yeah, like a couple years ago, I think. He was old. I mean, so I actually, last night I watched a little documentary on this film as well. Oh, same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was all right in terms of its presentation. But what I learned from that is they also reached out to trauma, like Lloyd Kaufman, to make a fantastic four film. And he refused because he's friends with Stanley and didn't want to ruin it.

And I just found that tidbit very funny. What did you guys think? I loved it. I thought it was great. It's probably the best one of these four fantastic full movies and I mean that unironically. I would call it the best Marvel film. Well, okay. I'd call it a Normie masterpiece myself.

I mean, sure, yeah. Normie me up, daddy. I lost my Normie pass with that last word. Never mind. Yeah, that gave you away. True. Sorry. Yeah, this was fun.

This was a fun movie. It's bad, but in like a fun way, not in a boring want to smash myself in the face with a rock kind of a way that one of these other movies happens to be like. I can't even tell which one, but we'll get there. We'll get to it. Yeah, no, this was really fun. Surprisingly, Ben Grim, the thing, what were they on with those press? That was like good.

He looked good. It was some kind of Ninja Turtle stuff, you know? I liked it. It was like, it was cute. Yeah, the motors in the face. Yeah. I really like the thing in it. I feel like out of the four, like, if we just go base level with the Fantastic Four as characters,

I don't really know anything about these guys. The one thing I do kind of consistently like is the thing, or at least the idea of the thing, because he gets handed like a pretty bad, like, rap compared to everyone else. He's like really screwed over by the situation that these characters are put in, right? But, like, yeah. It's kind of handy to be able to stretch or set yourself on fire or go invisible. that he gets like turned into a rock man. And the more they lean into a rock guy and like how much that would suck, the more

I kind of like it. And yeah, as you're getting at, he's one of the more entertaining parts of the original outside of just the silly campiness of it. And as we're getting out with that documentary, which I did also kind of enjoy the two of these four movies. Like the most interesting thing about it is like the meta commentary, the story around it. The law behind the scenes is like more interesting. and the actual movie itself that I would recommend that documentary too it's yeah it's called

doom on the I just watched it on YouTube I don't know what you saw Adam but uh yeah it was it was interesting got some tidbits here and there about that weird you know victim of Hollywood bureaucracy angle and just like using this IP as leverage and it's and the the ultimate consequence of it being this team of people that had to scramble together this movie in 94 with the limited budget they had of a million dollars about and I don't know that that passion does kind of seep through it in ways. It kind of captures the 60s corny vibe of the Fantastic Four, of how like, as I say, I don't really know much about these characters or anything, but it was like the one my dad always talked about growing up in the 60s and whatnot. It's always

his favorite. And I don't know, the new movie seems to kind of be going in that sort of angle, too, having it more of like a period piece. It's a really difficult set of characters, I feel, to get right because they are kind of so campy. And one of the most consistently intriguing things about it is the stretchy man angle. Maybe the worst main character of all time. Like for a superhero, that's your lead? It can be intriguing, I guess, on the page when these characters are drawn or animated in some way. But when you take it into live action, I feel like that is the most challenging one to sell.

Yeah. Yeah, it is creepy. It is gross And you can even tell like You can tell that like Marvel now Are kind of concerned about how that's gonna go over With all this marketing for the new movie Like there's I think there's only been one shot

Stretch so far as all the others have been Oh no They're trying to hide them Yeah So I don't know I'm so curious This would be an appropriate time For the woke agenda to appear

Because if they change that To just a girl Then it would be great for everybody You know Like, Elaster Girl is fetishized the fuck out of. Yeah. Right? People like it.

They think she's hot. It wasn't creepy because it was animated. So when it's a dude stretching, it's weird. But if it's like a mom, it's great for everybody. So they really need to, they need to gender swap that. Okay. I mean, people like it. People like Elastro.

I don't know. I feel like it would still be creepy as hell in live action. Like, that's the big issue. Yeah, maybe that's the problem. Like, what gender they are. Yeah. I think. that this low budget version toes the line very well because it's kind of charming every time he

stretches because you see like the practical effects and stuff that they try to do to make it work that's kind of like oh that's kind of clever like that's funny um i mean i like the part where he trips some bad guys and like his pants stretch with him as well and they're not special pants they're just normal pants oh yeah that was a good scene i like how the bad guys couldn't see that like a dozen of them were tripping in front of them also. They just keep running forward yeah with no understanding. Or like the the last shot in the movie being the stretchy arm out of the wetting. Yeah yeah that's fun. It's such a good shot to end on. That is etched into my brain forever. Like that's literally the first image I think of when I think of

94 Fantastic Four now. It's so good. Just literally that shot. Like I that's that ending solidified my love for the film. I was like, this is just fucking great. I don't know. For me, it was the human torch as the screensaver flying across. You know? Oh, hell yeah. That was less than Tron effects. Like, that was rough.

It was fun. A little worse than Tron. A little bit. But, I mean, I think that's the thing that I like about this movie so much is that I feel like newer, low-budget, like, movies trying to reach this scale with superheroes or whatever that are

super low budget, they lean into really bad CGI. And because of when this movie came out, it's fun to see how older bad, low budget movies would try to cut corners. And there's like so many interesting shots, a lot of shadow, a lot of like reusing sets in interesting ways. Like they have to rely on like classical filmmaking techniques to try to like make it look way bigger than it does. And it kind of gives it this sense of scale that you just don't get from a lot of low budget crap you see today. True. Yeah. Especially given their limitations. The fact that they were filming in like, what was it, like barely a warehouse, like just a really small location that wasn't even like a professional like the studio set or anything. Yeah, exactly. And the fact there was never an official

release, so it was kind of like a scuff version that's probably been copied and copied. And it's just somehow made its way until like illegal DVDs basically at most VHS quality. Who owns the rights to it right now? Would it just, I guess Disney, because they own Fox. I think Marvel probably have it in a vault somewhere. Yeah. Like somebody has to have a master copy of this and it would just be so good to release. Like it would be awesome.

People would love it. Like people would buy it. Why wouldn't they? Definitely. Like there's so much interest and intrigue behind this right now. that people are talking about it still, this movie that never even got released. Yeah, I just, I hate anti-art shelving.

You know, it's the same shit that David Zaslavs doing. It's just so, it's so irritating. Just release the movie. Like, it's done. It's finished. Just release it. Fucking put it on iTunes. There's no barrier.

You don't even have to print physical media. There's no cost associated with it. You pay one guy for, like, an hour to, like, type some things into the computer and then it's uploaded. Like, holy shit. But on Disney Plus. Exactly. Literally.

What are the famous ones that happened to? They did that with what, Batgirl and the Looney Tunes one, right? But the Looney Tunes one, someone bought it, right? Some company. Catchup entertainment, I think. That's not real. Yeah. No, I think that is.

I think that's actually it. It sounds like a joke. Let me just verify. Good for them. I'm really happy. Yeah, they're a film production company, and they did the day the, The earth blew up as well. Maybe mustard will buy a cat girl.

Yeah. Or no, bad girl, sorry. Not bad girl. Bad girl. Yeah, hopefully someone does. Because it doesn't even matter if the film sucks. Just release it. Just release it.

You have no cost associated with this. People put their fucking blood, sweat, and tears. Maybe, you know, we can't tell. We'd like to judge. We'd like to see if that was the case. But, you know, like this is something. It's people's jobs. Whenever they're applying for another film, you know, like, what have you worked on?

I worked on this, but I have nothing to show for it. I can't put it in my demo reel because they shelved the entire movie. Right. So let's pressure Disney. Let's do a release the Fantastic Four 1994 cut on Disney Plus and get that rolling. I will not rest. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how many people are going to be involved. Everyone will care.

Yeah. You know, I mean, sometimes you have enough of an outcry that it makes it to the artists involved. But the people involved with this are just Disney, not like one particular. Like, who's in charge of Disney right now? Is it Bob Iger still? I don't know. Yeah.

Like came back or something. I don't know if we can contact him. I don't know if there's a way to get their attention. You've got connections. Can't you call? No, he's a listener. He's a listener. I've got connections, but...

He listens every two weeks, yeah. I don't have those connections. Could you imagine Bob Eager, just like a Sardonicast fan? Yeah. He might be. He just keeps it on the down there, yeah. I'd be surprised if people at Disney, if people in relatively high positions at Disney haven't seen my, like, Kimba video or something.

Oh, I'm sure, yeah. Because that's, like, that's good PR for them. They'd want that circulating around internally, you know? Yeah, it must be, like, people's, jobs to, you know, scow the internet and just try and get a read on what people are saying and thinking, whether they like it or not. Do you think John Favro has watched your Lion King video? I'm sure people have sent it to him in some way.

I'm sure anybody with the ability to send him something has sent it to it. I don't know if he has social media or whatever. I don't encourage this, but I just assume that this is the case because it's a large, like it's a multi-million view video or whatever. Yeah. It's just statistically like... Well, now that we have the new Fantastic Four coming out, I really doubt Disney will do anything with this.

They probably want to suppress it even more. They probably want to suppress the old Fantastic Four movies. I don't think they want it on Disney Plus. Yeah, that's the thing, though. Well, I mean, like, they chose to put it on there because they just want a content library that's just so large that people don't run out of things to watch. Yeah.

That's the whole point of like a subscription service, right? Yeah, you can just churn views consistently. That's where I watched the 2005 and 2007 one on Disney Plus. Yeah, yeah. Tons of ads. I really liked the music in this film. I thought that the music was actually pretty good. Yes.

That's the best soundtrack out of the four as well. Yeah, out of the four. Yeah, 40-piece orchestra. It's like actually got a memorable theme compared to the other ones. Yeah. I remember something about it. I actually added something to it. I like, I'll always, I never.

stop appreciating just how in the mid-90s era of film, it was the standard to have a real composer and an orchestra. Like, that was just like the expectation for any score. And now it's just like, you know, get some rando to imitate temp music that was created for another thing. Like, no real composition. And even if you do get composition, it's just going to be Hans Zimmer. or like either phoning it in or getting one of his students to do it.

Like, yeah, there was a standard for music in the mid-90s that, like, you could just watch any random film and be like, hey, you know what? The music's actually actually doing something here. Do you think that the studios are moving away from that a little bit to try to have some kind of memorable, like, tune you can hum, you know? Like, it just feels like, or is it just because it's easier. now we've become accustomed to having like more of an unobtrusive score that's just kind of there. That's a good question.

I think that I think I honestly think that temp music is to blame because people just people who have a vision of what the movie should be are often comparing it to other movies, especially if it's like people making the money decisions. They're like, okay, this film was a success, right? And so when you tell a composer, hey, you need to make it sound like this in this scene, then you're just not going to get like a great composition. Because whatever scene you're using as a reference is probably going to be probably, you know, the best version of that feel that there is because you're using that as a reference. And when you're trying to imitate that as a composer, you know, you're going to change it enough so that it's not copyright infringement or maybe some. that it's not necessarily recognizable to the average listener. But you're not going to get like a real memorable melody or theme out of it, the way that we've seen in so many films throughout the 90s and 2000s.

Yeah, suffocates creativity. That's something that appears to be missing from higher budget films, especially right now. Mm-hmm. It sucks. I think that's why I'm looking forward to the new Fantastic Four, because they have Giacchino, I think. It's Giacchino, right, doing the new score. And even in the trailers, yeah

And even in the trailers It's like very memorable It's kind of catchy and I'm like Oh, they're doing something unique here And like yeah Yeah it seems to understand the property The poppiness of it Yes

Kind of campy but also semi-epic kind of in scope Yeah Yeah sounds good Yeah to be perfectly honest I saw the trailer and I thought it was like a Disney plus TV show Damn I didn't even know they were doing a movie

until someone on stream time. Well, let's talk about, let's save the new one for the very end, maybe. We can discuss that after these. The acting in this was very campy, but I feel, you know, it had some heart. That's what good about it. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of gay energy.

Why is the million dollar, why is the million dollar budget, Fantastic Four, have the best doom out of all four? He looks the best. He's got the most charisma and, you know, he's cheering the scenery. hard, but it's like, wow, how is this million dollar production channeling this better than the combined like 300 million pumped into this franchise later? Like, how did you miss it? Like that odd. Yeah.

He's kind of firing this. I've heard a lot of people point out that one of the biggest challenges with Fantastic Four is the inherent wackiness to the characters and then trying to adapt. that into the landscape of seriously toned Marvel cinematic universe or whatever we want to call it. Like the 2000s versions were trying to be the same level of like seriousness as maybe like the Sam Ramey Spider-Man that came out shortly beforehand. Yeah, they're definitely going for that. Yeah. But yeah, like there does seem to be some something inherently conflicting about that.

But what the 94 version did is because it's a. fucking campy Roger Corman thing. Like, sure, they were trying to be serious at some points, but like, the energy of it overall, I feel is like the most fitting and appropriate for what the inherent silliness of the characters kind of demands, you know? Yeah. No, I mean, because they're all campy, they're all doing really big acting, that it kind of coheres and you just kind of go with the flow.

Yeah, it's like Saturday morning cartoon type stuff almost. Yeah, real B-movie energy going on here. I will say, I kind of got really scared at the beginning of this movie when Reed Richards meets Sue Storm and she's like 12. I was like, what? What's going on? I forgot about that. You're dreamy. That was weird.

That was frightening. Yeah. I mean, it's still weird because how old would she be? Because there's like a 10-year time jump, right? Yeah, there's a 10-year gap and then they like just instantly got together. Yeah. It's a creepy-ass dynamic of really weird ways to introduce your main character. Yeah.

Yeah, what's the... It was a different time. 94. Yeah, well, Woody Allen was doing stuff, right? He's still doing stuff in France. It always moved to France and still do well in France. That's always the strat. That's like the Russell Brand's pivot to Christian right-wing grifter when you get a sexual assault allegation.

For directors, it's go to France and continue your career there and win Caesar Awards. Indeed. Everybody's got a strat, you know? Yeah, you're right. The pacing in this film was surprisingly fast. Yeah. Like, I never felt bored the entire time. I liked most of it outside of that weird B-plot with the...

I think it was supposed to be a character called Mole Man. Oh, my God. But they didn't have the rights. So instead... Heinz Mulman? Well, you don't know, Mole Man? He's a... So I had to look this up.

I'd never heard of this guy. It's like a recurring Fantastic Four villain. apparently moleman but that guy who steals the diamond is that guy in spirit in the same way at the end of the Incredibles says that there's the underminer I guess is probably a reference to moleman

if I had to guess and that's I don't know part of what I've mean by the animated side of it where we've seen a reinvented fantastic four in the Incredibles and seen like okay you can kind of do this

It does sort of need to be packaged as an animated thing for it to not be creepy and kind of not be annoying and get the tone right. I mean, it feels serious but also kind of comedic and self-aware in a same way. And yeah, outside of The Incredibles, this is probably the closest it's been, like, ironically, even despite everything going against it. And ironically. Yeah. It actually kind of has, I mean, it straight up has better characterization than a lot of the other ones, or it has way more going for it. It's just quite charming. You really can't have a problem with it once you know that context, despite how silly it is on its face.

But that just kind of makes me like it more. Yeah. I would straight up by a fucking Blu-ray of this if it existed. I think it exists in this perfect space in my mind of like, I'm laughing at it, but also I love it and I don't. I'm not like pissed at it, you know? Like it's so fucking cheesy But you can see the The passion and the love

Put into it by these people You know They were actually trying to do something Even if it just comes off It's really Strange and Fun Time Capsule Yeah, it's like the inverse

Of the 2015 one It is pretty much Exactly In a way Do you guys have any relationship To the comic books No no i've always like everyone loves dr doom so much and i i like his design and he's got like as the kids

would say aura right that's what kids would say he's yeah like and i want to see that that's they're going to say that in the next avengers you know they're going to be like damn dr dune it will be in the new film the aura wow galactus you got aura bray yeah um so i i want that character to be like dumb right on screen. I don't know if Robert Downey's going to be able to bring that. But as far as like, like, I had to Google, what does Dr. Doom even do? Like, what are his powers? He's a dictator, right? He's like a dictator, but he's also a wizard. He was like college friends with Mr. Fantastic. So they've got this like historic beef and he's like disfigured and that's why he wears a mask and he's got something to do of lightning and at some point he's like a doctor.

to strange or something. I don't know. There's somewhere like that. I mean, this has been going for decades and decades, so I have no clue. Someone who's more educated on that. I'll have to fill in. But I wouldn't even know where to begin as far as like,

oh yes, this run from 1974 to 78 is where you want to start. And I have no clue. I actually, this whole watching these four movies really got me interested in it. So I was looking on buying. like some older collection of like the best you know run or whatever I don't know actually this is a question to maybe our audience of what's a good place to start with Fantastic Four comics because I am interested in reading more hmm I'm not but I really enjoyed this film and I love I love the the how Dr. Doom just kept clacking his

fingers together, like every single scene, they made, they made sure to have extra clackiness on his fingers. Like, when he's just doing any kind of gesture or like pointing, it's like, click, click, like, love it. He's clacking and cackling. He's laughing in every scene. He's like scream laughing constantly. It's awesome.

It's got personality. Lots of stock sound effects, but you can't really blame him for that one. The, uh, the Batman reference kind of threw me off. Oh, was there a Batman? Holy Freud, Batman. I think you're right. Yeah. I can't remember which character said it.

It was like, what? What? Some weird dialogue. Oh, yeah. I did not like when they're like, I'm stretched thin, so that's why I'm stretchy. And you, what are the other ones? You're like a rock. You're scared and want to disappear.

Yeah. Shy. I like that. I hated that. That was really annoying. I like how she just, without even taking their measurements, just sewed together these costumes for them. Just like a perfect fit just shows back up. Like, hey, I made your costumes.

Okay, cool. Can we talk about Sue Storm as a female character in these movies? Because I don't know. I feel like she might be the best represented in this film. Actually, now you say that, probably. Yeah. Outside of the creepy stuff early on where she's doing the goo-goo-wise and she's like 10. Yeah, maybe.

She's kind of the most like ignored. I feel like the heart of all of these, whenever they get anything right, it's to do with either the thing or Johnny Storm. They just don't seem to know what to do with Reed Richards and Susan Storm. No. For the most part. Yeah. I put them in together kind of, actually. They definitely need better writing.

Yeah, I'm there with you. What are they going to do? They need some, like, dynamic. Like, that makes them interesting because, like, the stretching thing is, like, it's such a gimmick. Like, what are you going to do with that, you know? Yeah, they make the illusions of that, oh, yeah, I feel invisible type stuff with Susan. That's one thing they do. And I guess she can make, like, force fields.

But, like, they don't do anything cool in any of these movies with the force fields or whatever. Oh, yeah. Her fight scenes in this movie are so fucking funny because every single time it's just They run into each other She'll she'll stand in a spot and then turn invisible and they think that oh She's still there and then they run into each other and then on a separate occasion They shoot each other the exact same scenario right like it's never her force That incapacitates someone else it's their own force which is just

a funny like okay 90s you know she's a woman sort of you know what is she gonna do trip them like the other guy no right she's gotta they've got to run into each other or shoot each other all right I found it kind of weird how like once they decided they were going into space and they were like hmm remember those children like let's go get them they know more than anybody about this this space mission and they just kind of glossed over like what what that meant or why? And they just go and like, they haven't seen them in 10 years. And they're like, come to space with us because you know so much about this mission, right? That was very odd. Yeah, but I do like how

most of these movies, they like name them Fantastic Four in some stupid way after the fact. But this one just got it right ahead of the thing where the before they had powers. Yeah, you guys are the fantastic four. I'm like, really? Okay. I mean, there are four people standing together. Yeah, okay, mom, bye. Like, you're going to say that every time I have friends, like, making it awkward? Yeah. I like how Sue was the only one that actually had to dress up for the wedding. Everybody else stayed in their super costume.

Yeah, the thing was shirtless, but Sue had to wear the whole gown and everything. Why is the thing all the shirtless? Why can't, why does the thing have to be? He was wearing pants Why not wear a shirt too? Because then you can't tell he's made of rocks Yeah, he's not like transforming Like the Hulk

Yeah, just tailor him a big, big ass shirt Reponcho or something You have to see the rock Otherwise you forget that he's turned That he's rock all the way Yeah, probably like half that budget Went to the rock suit I mean his face is rock

I think I would remember he's rock No, but you have to see that these muscles are rock That's important because that makes him strong. I like when he goes out on the street and he's like all upset and everyone's like you're like hideous and like the women are scared of him and everything. Like that was a fun. That was great.

That was a good sequence. I would watch that movie again today. You know? Like if somebody was curious about it and wanted to see it, I'd be like, I've got something great to show you. So how do you guys rate something like this? How do you guys rate something like this? Because I can, I'm like. This is not good.

Okay. All right. Ten? Yeah, it's, I don't know. I wouldn't quite go that far, but I did enjoy it and having all that context behind it with the documentary and reading about it. And seeing the passion shine through, you can sort of feel that. And that's what I mean about it being sort of the inverse of the 2015 version with it's like, woof. So, yeah, I guess if you want to do ratings, like,

I'd probably settle around a two and a half style, the like. It's probably the highest any of these is going to get from me. Okay. Yeah, I'm going to go around two stars, two out of ten, because, I mean, it's, it is fun, but I just, maybe it's, it's also the last one that I watched, and I was just kind of like, I can't anymore with this, with concept. Yeah, no, I'm there with you. I'm very fantastic.

Fawed out. Yeah. Oh, sorry, you watched this one last? Yeah, I watched it last too. Oh, what the heck, guys? Yeah. I watched it in a weird order, though. I watched 2015, then 2005, 2007, then 94.

What the hell? This was the only one I hadn't seen before. Okay. So I'm quite familiar with the other ones. Okay. I watched this one first. It was also the only one I hadn't seen before, I guess. I hadn't seen 2015 and this one.

they were both me. Yeah, I give this a 10. I think it's fun to have this as like the highest rated Marvel film on my end. And I think I'm going to keep it that way. Good. No, yeah, it deserves the spot more than any other one, really. I don't know about that.

I thought you loved Thunderbolts. I haven't seen it. You loved it, though. But I loved it. I did love it. Yeah, just I guess right before we wrap up this film conversation, I just wanted to point out, fucking Dr. Doom had a lot of

Slay Queen energy, you know, happy Pride Month. He was sassy. Yeah. Yeah, he was awesome. Like, you go. You go, M.F. Doom. Uh-huh.

Rap snitch, canishes. You've got to point out the best Pride Month representation moment for each of these films as we go through Adam. Okay. Okay, cool. Oh, yeah, one more thing. The Human Torch not only reminded me of a screensaver,

like you mentioned. He reminded me of somewhere between, like, lawnmower man effects and, like, a Robax commercial. Does anybody remember those? Were those only on Canadian television? I don't know. Oh, what? Robax. I don't know what that is.

What are you saying? I think it was called Robax. There were, like, these back pain medication commercials. Yeah. Robax Platinum. If I search it on, yeah, he's just this, like, wooden CG character. Oh, he's creepy. Yeah.

Maybe it's a Canadian thing. Yeah, I think it was. All right, perfect. Next up, that was the Fantastic Four. Now we're doing Fantastic Four. Four spelled out. 2005. Yeah.

Directed by Tim's Story. Well, what's Tim's story? Sounds like one of those fake direct names. You know, when you don't have like credit. Yeah, this is a story guy. It's how he gets the job. Mm-hmm. You know?

This guy knows stories. It's in his name. Guarantee someone said that when having a business conversation, right? It's like Mark Webb directing Spider-Man. Guaranteed somebody said stories in his name. Yeah. They gave fucking Mark Webb Spider-Man. They should have given John Watts the Electro one, though.

Instead, he directed the other one. Anyway, what did you guys think? was it worth it go ahead Alex it's it's it's simultaneously better and worse than I remember in the kind of context

of the superhero movies it's contemporaries at the time we said like Spider-Man Spider-Man 2 the Ramey films X-Men 2 that kind of stuff it's obviously a lot worse than those but it's aged better as far as like some of those like grim dark superhero movies

that kind of followed it. So it sits in a weird, awkward space where it's like, oh, kind of like some of this. Again, as I was getting out with The Thing, I do like Michael Chickles as the thing. I think that's like really good casting, and he was clearly really into it, and all of the best stuff in the movie.

I agree. Based around him. I don't know if it's really a $100 million-dollar-looking movie. There's a couple of good action scenes, I guess. So the bridge scene is decent. And again, it's all around, like, the thing and what they do with him. I don't know if I agree.

I mean, it's decent in the sense where you can tell that they spent money on it, you know, like, oh, I can see why this movie's expensive sort of thing, but... It was okay. I quite like the shot of the, like, slumming into the thing, and it just...

I just kept thinking about the Ramey movie, though. It felt like, yeah, the bridge scene and the first movie is, like, so much better than this with the goblin and everything going to there. And, yeah, the fact this was released a year after The Incredibles. also it's like man it doesn't really do one single thing better than that movie um which is like the

the best possible of indesc four movie uh basically um yeah there's loads of it's age cg the stretching it's just creepy it's not as creepy as we get to at certain parts but uh again it's just feeding into this how you how do you do this character on the screen because yeah Yeah, stretchy man and Jessica Alba. They're just definitely the weakest parts. Zero chemistry. Yeah, zero chemistry. But yeah, at least the thing and Johnny Storm,

they have like these character attributes that make them somewhat compelling, you know, that you can do like a mood board and like write down. Yeah, Johnny Storm, he's like headstrong and he's a dick and a womanizer and the thing. He's like, you know, he's heartbroken and he's has all these things about him. but like Reed Richards and Sue Storm, they call like, nothing going on. It's like, I'm a scientist man and I'm a scientist woman. The end. They're like really boring characters to watch and just have nothing going on.

Which is crazy because they're supposed to be like the main two is like the implication, you know, in terms of like who are the stories centered around. I consider them to be like the main characters, but they're just so fucking forgettable. Yeah, a lot of what happens is their fault. Like are they anyone's favorite out of the four and? Doom? Depends on who you ask, I guess. Yeah.

People like Jessica Alba. She was the... She was supposed to... Yeah. She was horrible. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah. She's terrible, yeah.

I loved this movie as a kid. I watched this so many times when I was little, thinking it was like the coolest thing ever. But now watch it's been A long time since I've seen it And now I'm like Damn she really is like not bringing anything And her character isn't but also her performance

Yeah, it's also to like she is kind of relegated to like love interest And it's like a very high school like love triangle situation Where she has very little agency there. It's just super annoying you know they make sure to strip her down to her underwear Many times Many times she's naked to like three times in like 10 minutes. Like in a fucking montage.

They were like, oh, let's add, let's add, what if she gets walked in on in the shower into the montage? That had nothing to do with anything. Oh, don't come in. Yeah, they apparently wrote that stuff in once Jessica Erbil was cast. They like added that in to the script.

So it gives you some ideas to the motive of their character. So like I have a difficult time imagining this because I'm fucking weird in what I'm attracted to. It's not Jessica Alba. But if I, I'm trying to imagine a scenario here where like, okay, if I consider that to be peak number one attraction, right?

I still wouldn't want to see that because I would still respect what I'm attracted to, like as a human being. Like, why would I want to see scenarios where it just feels like all agency is stripped from the human being and that they're acting like a child and like, Ooh, I'm just a little dumb baby brain. Oh, what am I going to do? I'm so helpless. Like, that just seems like so unattractable.

Like, that seems like a boner killer. Can anybody explain this to me? That's... Why is this a thing? Um, I guess it's, like, just purely visual. Like, and it just begins and ends there. How do you explain the straight male mind? Yeah.

I'm asking for help. Yeah. I did remember that element of it because that's, what, 11 when this film came out. Um... Uh-huh. And I guess I was more like, oh, I mean, they kind of equally sexualized Chris Evans. Like, he's kind of always shirtless too. Oh, yes.

That's definitely an argument. But at least his character feels like he is doing it. Like he has agency and it's not constantly being stripped away from him and he's an idiot. It's because he's trying to show off, right? Like, ooh, I'm cool. Versus like, oh, why do I have to get naked all the time? God, why does this always happen to me? Oh, this.

You know, like things are always happening to her for that situation, whereas he's the one doing it. This level of weird horniness reminded me a lot of the Scooby-Doo movies. Were those horny? I haven't seen those in a while. Oh, yeah. Oh, they're insanely horny. Dude. Cool.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't know what was going on in 2005, like around this time period, but it's like kids movies, like family movies. It's like you got to have the horny scenes where there's like. Like some woman in her underwear, you know, it's just really, I don't know what it was. What was in the air? Was it a rack? I don't know.

Yeah, it's funny to say that because. This is when gamers were on top. No, I was thinking the exact same thing. More so with the rise of the silver surfer where like they start like swapping powers type thing. Because that happens in that Scooby-Doo movie where they're like changing bodies and stuff. True. Similar kind of energy. Yeah.

Uh-huh. Hmm. I don't know. I don't know. I think, look, I'll say this in defense of this movie because, like, yeah, it has really aged, not great. There's, like, bad performances. The characters don't always work.

But there are some really good, solid stuff in this movie. First off, I think the pacing is great. It really moves. Like, you get through the main concept right away. Boom, boom, boom. Everything's laid out. It's very, like, classic doing a superhero movie. in 2005, like very reminiscent of Spider-Man and everything, but it's like, it's competent.

Like, they're making a movie. They went in. They had a script. It wasn't insanely out of budget. Like, they're shooting a million extended scenes. I imagine that probably didn't happen because it feels like they had a plan and they executed it. Like, I don't know.

It felt very like, damn, you guys made a movie. This is what a movie was back then. That was for kids for a superhero stuff, you know? The level of expectations for a movie with this budget in this time period was met. That's what I'll say about it. They met expectations for what this should be given the money and given the time period. Still, kind of wish the acting was a bit better than a fucking FMV game, you know? The dynamic between Chris Evans and Michael Chickles is fantastic.

Chris Evans is the highlight of the movie. I mean, he's, like, genuinely fun. Like, he's having fun on screen. He's, like, bringing energy and comedy to these moments that really need it. I really love that moment when they come back from the space station and we're in Ben Grimm's POV. I thought you're going to say. Like, that's just a great joke when he wakes up and Chris Evans is like, oh, you're hideous, you know, whatever. It's really bad.

And he looks and it's nothing, you know. Like, that was a good fake out. I like that. Like, those little funny moments, they're there. I don't know, that was nice. That's probably the best sort of shot slash gag in the movie. But I lean more towards Ben Grimm, Chickless, being like the heart of what makes this work. He's like the only level of sympathy, really?

Yeah. Mainfall. I guess you get a little bit through Doom. He's probably the best. But yeah, that shot of him trying to pick the wedding ring up or whatever. There's something tragic and sad about that. I dig that. Here's the thing about his story, and this isn't something I,

I ever would have thought about as a kid. But like, the idea of you're married to someone, they've gone on a dangerous mission in space. They've come back. They're alive, you know, they're not dead. They're just, they look completely different. Your immediate response, horror and screaming and you aren't married anymore. Like, what was going?

That relationship was fucked from the beginning. Like what? Yeah, dodged a bullet, bro. Maybe you dodged a bullet. Yeah, yeah. And the way that scene was shot too, where, uh, where Laurie Holden comes out of the flat in like the middle of the night, like in that tiny nighty.

It's like crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Start screaming like he's some kind of creep. Like that's your, he's been in space. He could have died. Yeah. Good Lord.

Also, out of the three films, this is definitely the most fuckable thing design. Just FYI. I find it funny that in the comic books, like canonically, each of these films, they have to match this. the idea that the only person that could ever love him would have to be blind. Like, that's very important to be replicated in all three of these films. Like, no, she's a character in the comics.

We got to, and that was the idea that whoever wrote the comics had is like, whoever loves this man must be blind. Like, okay. Whereas, I feel like if you made a modern version of this, he would just go on the internet and find thousands of people who would be like, I'm actually into this.

Yeah, that would be, you'd probably be like, yeah for more success as a rock man Yeah, honestly Especially since they're so famous Like these two movies Really are Like they deal with the idea of fame

And like being a celebrity And the media a lot It's kind of Interesting I don't know why they went with that angle But it's like a running theme here How'd you like the soundtrack? I don't remember a single note

The licensed music, I mean, like the fucking 2000s, right. Yeah, extremely 2005. Yeah. It was a 2005 thing ever. That was nostalgic, very obnoxious, though. What's funny is that that, that, like, little, that thing of, like, having that music in there is completely gone by the time they're making the sequel. You know, they don't have the fun song at the end of the movie and the sequel. It's like, okay, we're done with this.

We know not, we're not doing that thing anymore. It's a new year. It's a new era. Because it's weird to think, like, the era of these two movies when they were made, like, right after, like, Ramey's Spider-Man and the phenomenon there, yeah, like you were saying, the Incredibles. But then by the time the second one comes out, it's right before Iron Man and the Dark Night happens in 2008. Yeah.

That's a good perspective to keep in mind, actually. Yeah. Like, that's such a huge shift right there. And this was one of the last ones before. things change completely for how we think about these superhero movies. That's absolutely true. It seems so far away when you, if you were to just show those movies side by side, they seem like a decade apart at least.

I know, I know. That's crazy to think of it, actually. Yeah, well, Dark Night was, what, one year after Silver Suther, which is crazy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And Iron Man. So there's different variations between these films in terms of, like, how their powers work, notably with Susan.

Because some films are like, well, all of her clothes disappear, like, you know, whatever she's touching, I guess. But this one, her earrings don't disappear. You see them. And like there was something in her hair, too. Which kind of is funny when you see it in action because. then that kind of implies that she's not caked with makeup every scene. Because otherwise you'd just see like a clown face. You'd literally just see floating makeup like one of those like opera masks,

which I think would be hilarious. I like how she puts on a fuck ton of makeup right as she's like getting out of the shower and going to bed. Like, really? I don't remember that. A full beat. No, yeah. She's caked with makeup like as she's fresh out of the shower.

Yeah, so many things. do that, yeah. If you've been in attention, it's crazy. Yeah. I really like the guy who played Doom in this, to be honest. I thought he had like a little more gravitas than the others. He was kind of playing it up a little bit. I don't know what his name is, but he was definitely trying to go for like a Norman Osborne type of thing, or at least the writers were with him, like the angle being more on him being the CEO and his company dying and that sort of thing. Yeah, I didn't mind him. It's just more how he looks as Doom.

Once he actually has the, like, armor on him and everything, he looks goofy in a way that's just kind of, like, lame. Oh, yeah, now I remember. Not much cool about him. But I agree with you as far as, like, the casting. He's trying to do, like, a Kevin Spacey thing, too. Yeah, true. Maybe.

He had late-screen presents. I feel like that most of the main cast, I guess Jessica Albuhras side, kind of understand the tone of what they're in and what they're going for. It's really not taking itself too seriously. It is kind of breezy for the most part and inoffensive. So I find it, you know, it's entertaining enough. But I remember the fervor around the time this came out, like, people were mad

because I guess the expectation was more for like a Sam Ramee type level to bring these characters. But there is just, I don't know, there's just, Spider-Man just has such an advantage. I feel like in translation, he's inherently sympathetic. Yeah. These powers really just, they match well with cinema and what you can do with the action of a character that swings around. Like, it's just so much more you can do than what these characters are restricted to. And all the kind of like space stuff you have to include and all this exposition and all these scientist characters. And it just gets like quite convoluted quite quick.

And it's just inherently so silly. So you have to lean into that somewhat. And the best parts are when it does kind of. Yeah. Another thing to keep in mind is that, you know, people were mad when the first Spider-Man movie came out, too. Like, the conversation was like, he doesn't have webs coming out of his arms actually. He builds them in a lab where it's like, this is just, you know, Sammy has a different interpretation of it. One stands the test at time.

One doesn't. And it's cool to have something where it's like, oh, this is a, you know, they decided that that was appropriate for the universe, but it's still a great film. You know, you have to take artistic liberties to translate things. especially if you yourself have a vision, right? Yeah, I don't know. I think it's basically just the rule that if you release a superhero movie, people are going to get mad about something and kind of make a big stink about it, whether or not it's a good movie.

Yeah. It's more like how much of a vocal minority it is or not, where I feel like the people genuinely upset about the organic web shooters and Spider-Man was a lot smaller than people who just were upset with the overall. vibe of this movie in the 2007 one. Well, it made a fair amount of money. A $100 million budget wound up making $300 million. Not the best, not the worst, I guess.

Enough to encourage a sequel. Definitely not like Spider-Man numbers, which they're probably, or X-Men numbers that they're probably going for. Yeah. Yeah, they got a sequel. And from what I remember, like, at the time, people, I don't know, I don't know if people hated the film.

It was just they went inside and got like a superhero thing and we're, you know, not crazy about it, but kids liked it. The expectations were different. Yeah. Before, yeah, Marvel really kicked out. The MCU really kicked off. I like the scene in this movie where they're trying to figure out their powers and stuff, like scientifically.

They're kind of like all one at a time. And they're basically telling Sue, like, we've scientifically determined that you could control your invisibility better if you weren't so goddamn emotional all the time. That was fun. True. They do basically say that. They'd literally say that. They're like, why are you so emotional? You'd have better

invisibility. You actually get a lot better at it if you just weren't so emotional all that time. Yeah, very much 2005. Yes. Love the time capsule. A lot of this movie was filmed in front of

a billboard ad space so they were able to probably pay for half the film it's really egregious with that it gets crazy in the second movie it gets so much worse than it yeah I guess even worse yeah yeah the fight scene in front of like

the Burger King product placement that you get smacked into a big sign yeah yeah so it's pretty bad yeah I don't know there's a lot of fun little moments in here like when she's taking his temperature Sure, right? Like, I like when they all discover their powers, you know, when they're at, like, Von Doom's place or whatever. I like when she's take, the nurse is taking his temperature and it's like 206 or something, right before he goes on.

And she just lets him leave. Yeah. Goes on a date with him. Like, clearly he's experiencing some sort of like near death delirium, right? Like, he's like, no, I'm fine. Let me get out of you. Go to, you know, you don't, you don't let him leave. What kind of fucking medical practitioner are you? Registered as 200. He's going to die. He's literally dead. She went on a date with him immediately after. They went skiing. Oh, yeah. He made his own fucking hot tub. Yeah, it sounds to take seriously. There's like no plot really. I mean, very little actually happens.

I feel like it does kind of peak with that bridge action scene. The final fight with Doom is the setup's kind of funny where he's like freezing Mr. Fantastic in that chair. That's like that's like that's. very funny to me. And when it's like molten, that looked decent when Doom was like molten. How great is it? The rest of the action isn't that good. I mean, how great is it when Ben Grimm finally becomes like no longer the thing and he's just normal again? Two minutes later, he's like, ah, no, I, shit, I should just be the thing. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I'd be kind of

annoyed if I was to Reed Richards. I'm like, you've been nagging me for the past fucking six months to cure you and now you're just like, never mind. Yeah. I guess that's where the kind of tonal issues, I don't know, it feels like Ben Grimm should be the main character, really.

It's just so much more interesting than everyone else going on. But yeah, that huge change just like it happens off screen and is wrapped up in a matter of minutes. So it doesn't really have much of a punch or anything. Yeah. Oftentimes just kind of reduced to a quick gag or something. So, yeah,

doesn't really have much punch by the end of it. When I saw this movie, I must have been like 14 years old. And the only thing I remembered about it for so long was that I was pissed off when they get their powers and like the thing, his bed breaks and all, like, I was just hyper obsessing over like where did the fucking mass come from? Like whatever was in his body before, you know, even if it did. Even if it changed into something, you can't just magically appear to have way more. The energy has to come from somewhere.

The mass has to come from somewhere. And I was pissed off when I was younger. And that's the only thing I remembered about this movie. And so I was just waiting for that moment. I don't think they would care. I mean, I don't think they would care if they knew. I don't think that's on their list of things to be accurate about. But yeah, they did piss me off when I was 14 or whatever.

You know what pissed me off is Reed Richards putting his creepy little stretchy hand under the door to go unlock it. That was creepy. What about when he stretches his face to be like a do the Chad meme? It's like crazy looking. This was like he, I don't know what the actor, this guy, like I think he does read Richards fine. you know, like he kind of captures the energy, but it's like something so off-putting about the way they portray his powers in these movies. It's like, could you make it any, like, less weird? Like, even when it's like being shown to be, like, useful, like in that montage, they show him, like, stretching and grabbing paper towels, you know, or not paper, toilet paper, you know, because he's taking his shit.

And it's like, everything connected to his powers is like. Yeah, like what emotion is like attached to it. It's not really awe. It is mostly just like freaky. You know, even in that last battle scene where it's like the more working together, he like morphs himself into a funnel for like water to shoot in a different direction. It's like, I guess, cool. It's not really a clap worthy moment, you know, as opposed to the obvious on its face.

Oh, that's cool. You can turn into fire and fly around. That's just neat, I guess. Like everyone would want to be able to do that. Yeah, I guess It is mostly just horror Comedy with him Like let alone when he's dancing

But yeah, mostly just boils down to it's funny I'm getting the wobbly knees But it's literal And my dancing is in the next film right Yeah Yeah yeah Yeah yeah If Sam Ramey had his hand in this

You know it would be 10 times As horrifying and weird With the stretching It would just be better I love Sam Rory Well of course Yeah It'd be so much better.

I mean, that's the thing. Like, with Spider-Man and Sam Ramey, like, he understood, like, Peter Parker, treat him like an underdog. Like, he's a loser. He needs, you know, like, that's what's great about him. The Fantastic Four, as characters in this movie, they're, like, rich scientists who are adults, and they have their, you know, it's like, they're just boring. They're boring as characters.

And I don't believe that they do science ever also. Like, you never feel like that. Yeah, exactly. But like Sam Ramey, he seems to care about them more as characters on like a humanistic kind of level. Like he humanizes like Sandman for God's sake. Yeah. He's able to find like angles for it. Whereas what do Reed Richards and Sue Storm?

Like, what are their flaws? What are they? Like, what is it about them that is supposed to be fun or intriguing to watch? No. Reed Richards is too shy. He doesn't take control and ask her out. And Sue Storm. he needs to take command and ask her out and be a man.

He's thinking all the time. Sue's just too emotional. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of it. We mentioned just how annoying it is that they keep making her get naked for no reason. But I wrote down in my notes just how little sense it may, like how little they cared about even justifying it, like when they're on the bridge. Like, why did you have to go invisible to get around the crowd?

and then she gets around on the other side of the crowd, and then the other two guys are there. So they just got through without being invisible, so why did you have to get invisible? Because we need Jessica Albert naked. That was the point. That was the whole point of the scene was she gets naked. Yeah, you start there and right backwards.

Yeah. Like she has to be naked because she has to, because Jessica Albert, how we get there doesn't really matter. You know, I'm starting to realize that I think it's probably hotter for people the less agency she has in kind of like a dumb sub BDSM kind of way. Like, I feel like the, the fact that she has no agency is probably giving more people

a boner. That's, okay, I figured it out. Yeah, there's a good kind of gag about that in that movie companion that came out. I figured it out. I don't know. I mean, maybe there's an element there, but I don't know. Of course, I saw this at a young, impressionable age, and I was just delighted with the images I was seeing on screen. I'll just put it that way. And I wasn't I don't think I was thinking about it much more than that. Yeah, I think that's literally as you're overthinking almost. It's like Megan Fox and Transformers tier. I just want to understand.

It's porn for children. And this is just, it was so much more prevalent back then. This kind of crap is just like, okay, any situation where we can get the woman in underwear or any kind of. Yeah, it's right up. Yeah. It's, you know, Megan Foxx over the motorbike in Transformers 1 or 2 or whatever, you know, like, it's the same thing. Yeah, why hired Jessica Elba?

Yeah, I'm sure the studio people are like, we need a little, we have this actress in this movie, so we need a little more cleavage in this. Let's get the costumes this way. You know, like, they're definitely talking, you know, making that happen. It's just such a different perspective now. All right. One last thing to mention before we wrap this up, there's three Wilhelm screams in this film within like 20 minutes. There's three fucking Wilhelm screams. Nice.

I only knows one, I think. No, yeah, there were two in the fight scene, and then there was a secret hidden one near the end of the film, right as the human torch goes past the camera, like after he makes the four in the sky, then he zooms past the camera. And it's like low in the mix in the background, but they snuck in a third. It's really weird. That's weird. Three fucking Wilhelms. Wow, okay. Show they really cared.

I don't know what was burning in the sky, but, you know. Is the sky on fire? Like, he's far away from him. Apparently it is because the way he draws the four, it's like the flames are hanging in air. Yeah. Like, what, is he, did he, is he combusting something? Like the oxygen, the atmosphere is on fire?

Like, does he have a tail? I don't know. I don't know what's going on. Um, I give this a fantastic four out of ten. Nice. A low four. Yeah. I'm pretty much the same with that.

star out of five, four out ten. It's pretty inoffensive, has some cute moments, but overall is pretty forgettable in the tapestry of these kind of films that we have been given over the past couple decades. I'm sure I'll watch it again at some point in my life. I mean, because of how much I've watched it when I was a kid, I have to like, also, compared to some of the Marvel stuff that's been coming out recently, it's like, yeah, this is a movie. is that they made a movie. That's good, you know, like, it's fine. So I give it a six out of ten. It's serviceable. And I, in my nostalgia, it is enjoyable still for me. Yeah, it's got some energies and like corny zooms and cartoonish kind of framing. It was kind of knew what it was, at least. Yeah.

Not very well directed. All right. Fantastic. Well, originally the title of the next one was just four the silver server yeah they tried to they tried to see if they could uh full not even include the word fantastic you can see on iMdb they include the um original title four colon rise of the silver server oh yeah that's weird well that's how it shows in the credits the opening credits is just four yeah why they thought it was like ubiquitous enough you show the number four you think fantastic four. I thought that'll be in like Don Draper, like smart. Yeah, we're redesigning this.

We're simplifying this for a new age. Yeah. Wow, that's lame. Yeah, basically, we're doing it again, but this time with Pepsi Man. And, um... Yeah, major sequelitis. Oh my God.

This is, if, if, classic sequelitis situation here. This is so sequel. Like everything about this is just no one wants to be here type of sequel energy. Like let's just do the same thing again. Yeah, exactly. Well, that's stuff I was saying about Ben Grimm or Michael Chickliss being like the heart of the movie and there being something to explore there. I guess they did it in the first movie and now there's like nothing is the replacement. A silver naked band flying around.

That's I guess the new intrigue. They're just not interested in the characters anymore. it kind of just turns into pure gimmicks and the gimmicks are there in that first movie, but it's just that on steroids. Like it is like, oh, the gimmick and that was like the power swapping. And isn't that, isn't that crazy? How you get to see Johnny Storm look like the thing? Isn't that wild? Literally the first thing they did with the power swapping was get Jessica Alba naked again.

Literally the first thing they did. They got Chris Evans naked too in that scene. She didn't want to be. Chris Evans wanted Can I say this? It was genuinely so frustrating and sad watching what they did to her character in this movie. It was bad in the first movie.

She was barely a sketch of a person. But in this one, the whole time, she's just like nagging them about like saving the world. Like, oh, my wedding is more important, you know? It's just like, what? Like, I thought she was a scientist as well and is part of the team, but they act like, oh, my boring

freaking fiance, doesn't want me to save the world. I have to behind her back, because she just cares about her wedding. Like, it was so fucked up. It was just so annoying to me. This one was the worst one for me. Of all of them? Yeah, out of all of them. Really? Yeah.

This one was the only one that I would consider to be a success for your spite recommendation. So you got me. Okay. So a partial one out of four, a quarter win. Yeah. But we made effort by getting to talk about other fun stuff. They spent $30 million more, but made $30 million less than the first one.

So it's like a complete wash pretty much. And obviously they didn't make a sequel after this one, despite the after credit scene with a silver man opening his eyes. They love doing that, zooming in on the closed his eyes. opening. I guess that's like the only positive I could give it is that I did like the choice of when they get rid of the Silver Surfers board. They actually have like an actor, Doug Jones. Oh yeah. On set and like an outfit. I thought that looked pretty good actually. And even some of the CG was interesting and good. And the casting of Lawrence Fishburn as the voice, I thought also was good and in a better movie would be good casting for that character. He's got like a

He has the right voice for it. It's just when he's paired up with this version of Galactus, which has just been meme to death, I guess. He's a big smoke monster. There's nothing really imposing or scary about it. And it's just boring and uninteresting. This smoke cloud is the big villain. Yeah, it's the most boringest thing.

It's terribly boring. I wanted to point out, since you mentioned, when he's in the forest and loses the board and it's an actor, right? That reminded me very hard of under the skin. Just because he like turned black and, yeah, I was thinking under the skin the entire time. Yeah, yeah, right. I was like, damn, somebody got a player here. Great double feature.

It's basically the same movie. And now, like, it's so lazy that it has, yeah, they introduce a character like Silver Surface, So, so great. Now you've got these two characters in the main cast that can fly, and they're flying around. So you could do something with an action scene, right? No. Like, what's the standout action scene from this movie? Like the one in London, where the Thames gets drained?

That just felt like a half-fast version of the bridge scene from the 2005 one. It was... Yeah. Yeah, just copy and paste. Pretty much. Yeah. I mean, they bring back Victor von Doom for no fucking. reason except so that they have someone to fight at the end because they can't fight a big cloud.

Yeah. So they fight Doom. They put him on the board. He's surfing around. Yeah. I feel like I forget 99.9% of this entire movie and I watched it like a couple days ago. Like I literally, literally the entire thing is just like in and out, just completely gone. No.

I've seen this movie multiple times over the. years and I it felt like I was watching it brand new almost this last time because it's just so forgettable yeah there's nothing intriguing you know there's no there's nothing to attach to in any kind of sense the pacing is so fucking whack like yeah 25 minutes through the film was my first note and it and it was me pointing out no conflict nothing was happening The Silver Surfer hadn't showed up yet It leans way harder into the humor Or attempts at humor

You know, the comedy angle With like the thing doing big burps And the This is Dolce And like all the What do you have against capitalism angle Where he's like Johnny Storm's getting all

All the sponsorships And putting on the suit So isn't this funny Isn't this like amazing And funny Well because they nerf his character Like Johnny They're trying to make him serious

And give him a serious character arc of I need to take things seriously now because I'm serious and this is important. Like in the first movie, what was fun about him was like his childishness and like him messing with Ben and in this one it's like he has to be serious and be like it was just boring. It was like we already have the serious guy. Like just be fun. Well, they uh, now you say that actually, they did give her Jessica Alberg way more to work with with the now she has a droplet of blood come out of her. knows when she really

overextends her powers, you know? Yeah, that's a lot to work with. That or just not. Where did that start? Like, what started that cliche? I don't know. Everything does that, right? Yeah, when you time travel too much.

Yeah, the over-extended that... Is it the Incredibles? Was it the Incredibles? No way that started with the Incredibles. No, no, it must have been before then. X-Men? It looks like Stranger Things does it? I would say at least the 80s.

Yeah, someone in the comments, that's no. Yeah, there's probably a TV traps page for that, actually. Yeah. Someone could find the first known instance. I also kind of want to, I have a similar question, because I think in more than one of these fantastic four movies, they have Dr. Doom doing the whole, like, I will strangle my henchmen. And all I'm thinking is like, okay, this is like the Darth Vader scene, basically. What's the first instance of that exact scene? Because that scene's been copied a bunch.

I want to know if Star Wars did it first or The villain killing his own minions Yeah Yeah Like whether it's particularly in that exact way or not But yeah The strangulation makes it really clear what They watched

Oh I forgot to mention this for the last movie But the guy who plays Von Doom's assistant Is the guy who plays the priest in Midnight Mass Oh very nice I forget his name, but I was like, where do I recognize that face? It's such like a, I don't know, a great face. Like, what is he doing in this movie? And I'm like, oh, shit, he's at midnight mess, priest.

Anyways, I just thought I'd point that out. Yeah, Chris Evans is also Captain America. Shut up. Which is apparently like partially because of these movies why he was chosen, at least in part for Captain America because then we're talking about all these studios fighting for rights and whatnot it meant that they couldn't use them again

because he's snapped up by Marvel Studios all the bureaucracy is just crazy and sort of like just circled back in on itself now so I guess Disney's got it all baby except the Hulk I think do we have to mention Deadpool and Wolverine rain in this conversation. Why?

Because Chris Evans as Johnny Storm shows up in a movie very significantly. Yeah. He's there as his character and he shows up and he's like wearing some kind of cloak or something and you think that he's Captain America and then he says flame on and he flies around and it's like, oh. That's right. I've seen that movie and I couldn't actually remember that happening. That's great.

but everybody said it was so good he gets murdered it's kind of funny good yeah no it was a good part in that movie I'm just going to throw this out I think we're going to have a more substantive and interesting conversation

with the next film after this this is just a rehash of the one we just fucking talked about I don't know how much different about this film like I I would like this one to be a short conversation to make room for the next more interesting conversation Because we do have like a hard out in like an hour or whatever I think we should make you talk about it solo for the next 10 minutes

Yeah, this is the one you enjoyed least yeah, you should have to talk about it more Yeah, but but the punishment was making me watch it not the conversation The conversation if you want if you want to punish the audience then yeah, we'll have you can make me do that But just ramble for about nothing for 10 minutes just be like wow it was it was uninteresting I would say it's criminally uninteresting I think the the the people who made this should be in jail yeah it's so it loses that sincerity of that first movie it's uh like it's it's it's so unserious that in the towards the end they actually have the like record stop sound effect like in the wedding scene it's like this tone isn't right like anything

you got right in that 2005 one it's like none of that is left here there's not there's no co-action it's just like a cg goop finale like worse than Saturday morning cartoon writing. Yeah. All the like flying around Great Wall of China stuff and this like machine thing that breaks into three parts is so lame. I would say that this, it would be tougher for me to think of a worse example of a film, or sorry, a better example of a film that like I don't know if I could even call art.

You know, it's stretching the definition. I'm trying to find, like, artistic qualities to this in the sense that the entire reason for it being made in every single molecule of this film's existence is literally just we're capitalizing off. We're making a sequel, right? I hate the Lion King 2019 more, but, like, you can almost believe John sometimes

when he's talking about, like, what he was trying to do or, like, I wanted to make it like a documentary or whatever. Like, okay, this has no inspiration. This fucking movie is literally just the definite, if we were to call anything Slop, this would be it. Like, there's nothing there of any artistic quality. You missed the complexity and commentary of the,

um, the ironic pop art of the thing sipping a slurpy. Mm. Everybody slit the, sip the slurpy. I think we've said our piece. All right. Cool. two out of ten for me this sucks yeah this fucking suck yeah one star yeah nothing to it i'll say three three out of ten wow you loved it i loved it i loved it yeah i mean the thing is

great he smashes stuff i like that silver i like the silver guy i like how he's silver i think it's a nice texture i just like the tie-in video game Pepsi Man. I like that more. There was probably a Fantastic 4 Silver Surfer video game, I wonder. It was the era of the cheap, cashing game. Yeah, there was always fucking tie-in games for everything. Oh my God. PS3, Fantastic for Rise of the Silver Surfer.

All right. Fantforstick. I think they should have actually had that as the title. I think that, because on the poster it is. but I think they should have committed to that I think they should have had Don LaFontaine resurrect from the grave and say, Fant Forstick, in the trailer.

That would have been fun. I wish that was the tone of this movie, sort of the dower, overly serious mess that we got. Fant Forstic, it's such a stretch, it hardly even looks like an A. Oh, it doesn't at all. Fant Stick. Fant Stick, four. Like, I'm looking at the poster right now.

It makes no sense. It's a really bad poster, do you? Yeah. Faces look funny. It's also other A's. Why don't you put the four with the first fan, you know? Yeah. For foreign-tastic.

Fourntest. Tastic. Yeah. See, I like this better than Silver Surfer. Because. Because it's so bad it's good. But not because of the movie itself. There's like.

there's a narrative behind the film that's way more interesting. Yeah, there's a more interesting conversation, and part of that shows on the screen also. Does it? Like, when you're trying to figure out whose wig is, like, was that a reshoot? Oh, yeah, that's fine. But also, I mean, like, conceptually,

I like that it's trying to do something a little different, even though it didn't work. I like that Josh Trank was like, you know what we need to do here? We need to make a body horror, like fantastic form. movie. Like there's some parts of it where I'm like, okay, you know, this is different. And I, and I respect and appreciate it just for that. Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Somewhat. I just feel like,

like what Josh Trank did with Chronicle, where it's taking like superior tropes and making his own thing with it, that would have been the way to do it, kind of like the Incredibles did, where it's like, look, this is our Fantastic Four. These are our characters and it's clearly inspired by this thing. But we made it better and we made it ours. It just doesn't work within this framing because it can't decide. what it wants to be. And I guess Josh Trank did have some idea of what he wanted it to be, but the studio wouldn't let him do it from what I read is because it was too violent, which is like, well, just from ground level, this is like screwed then.

Yeah. He had a certain idea for this movie. You weren't ever going to let him make it. So then most of it's like scrapped and reshot. So then it's just this voiceless, has no real identity, anything that could have been cool about. It was never indulged in. so it's just this just plain nothing movie where like nothing happens like for the first half an hour where they're like building up the the whole spaceship thing and the whole backstory of them as kids like in doing the science fair stuff it's like there's no real payoff or point to that at all like it doesn't feel like it enhances anything it's so sort of random the way it moves the way things just like change and these awkward time jumps all over the place

it's a really messy like pointless film well I mean they had the kids stuff so that you could get a logical explanation for why someone would be saying the words it's clobber in time

that's what his brother said when he was feeding them up nice yeah yeah I'm glad I got that explained now it's a logical pay off when he channels his brother you guys have been in this business of talking about bad movies for a while and I I think you guys were, I don't know if each of you have videos on this or not, but I know

this was such a big deal when it came out. I just know it was a big deal when it came out. So you guys, I don't know really anything about the story behind this movie, except that it was a messy production and Josh Trank got in trouble for talking shit about the studio. Can you guys explain to me, please? What the fuck happened here? Like what actually happened? Because it is, how?

How did this happen? So, Josh Trank and the studio, what was it, Fox, had conflicting ideas on what they wanted the movie to be, and production had already started. And allegedly, he essentially just fucking bailed. Like, he would show up allegedly drunk on set and have his dogs like, shit all over his trailer and then just like, you know, be barely functional where everyone else is just trying to be like, okay, let's make the movie. It's more than a trailer, I think.

I think he had like multiple dogs in a huge house of sort of something that he'd rented. Then they wound up doing like $100,000 worth of damage, just the dogs somehow, whatever, whatever that means. Yeah, just like a night. He sounds like it was very difficult to work with. And I can, I don't know, I can relate to the. the pain it must be of like trying to work within the studio system and you're having these big ideas and clearly knowing that if you could just do what you wanted to do, then it would be a better movie. But like I feel like that's almost part of working in the studio system.

It's like the politics and you're being able to navigate it. Like sandbagging it the way he did as like ruined his whole career basically in Hollywood. The most part and you probably won't be able to work at this. He's still making movies, but he would have a much better career if he didn't do that. I think the only movie. I checked his thing. It looked like the only movie he's made since then was the Alkapolin movie, right? Yeah, which was terrible.

Tom Hardy. Yeah. Yeah. So he's definitely hurt his career and all the, I don't know. You would need, I feel like the green light big time if you're coming with the, yeah, I'm going to make a fantastic full movie that's mostly inspired by Cronenberg body horror. You know, like that? Yeah, there's something there's something kind of interesting about that.

but to go ahead the way it did. And I think, again, this just cursed property, like, that it needed to go into production quick, as Adam was saying, partially because they just needed to make a movie. Because it was a 10-year, nearly, gap between that last one, and they need to be pumping out these movies to maintain the rights so it doesn't go to back to Marvel. So at a certain point, it's like, it doesn't even matter, like, the quality of this movie. And that was one of the few pros, actually, is how much this film pissed off Rupert Murdo. Doc. He specifically expressed distaste for this movie, like solely blaming him for one of Fox's

fiscal quarter earnings. So I'll give it the thumbs up for that because fuck that. But yeah, there's no focus. It feels like it's not just a studio problem of like, oh, he had a vision and they were trying to mess up his vision. It really feels like what the fuck was that vision? Why would you think Fantastic Four is the right thing to do like body horror with, you know. I mean, well, we were saying that it is inherently like kind of scary. His fucking stretchy shit. I, like, I do think that there is something there.

Like when he wakes up, he's like, oh, his arms are too long. Or like, especially the reveal when he's like crawling away from the, and his legs are stuck for him to look back and be like, oh, my legs are rubber. Like, it's a fun. That was horrifying. Yeah, exactly. There is some genuine horror there So I think like the ideas aren't absolutely worthless They didn't work in this film for sure

But there is something there and I can see what kind of like inspired him In a way And I like that I can see some of spite Like it felt like he hates these characters I felt like he mishandled the characters I don't I don't feel like he hates the characters Which just feels like yeah well Jake is saying it's like why you would have to just make something new, like inspired by it clearly channeling

this idea but without literally using the branding of Fantastic Four, because, yeah, we're saying that it's difficult anyway in the early 2000s ones proved it, like how tough it is to translate this source material and there needs to be something kind of campy and how much of it you take serious is like a delicate balance. And this is just like putting the dial up to max and then some and it just can't find an angle it's like yeah it's got this doom who's they well they get rid of the whole space element entirely there's like dimension hopping now and yeah Josh Trankler originally wanted it to be part of the the chronicle universe and that's like crystals whatever and it's like you can't do that's like come on yeah so like doom this is like the worst doom

You should know right away you're not allowed to to tie in your fucking own project to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Oh my God. Because I wish like that was the angle that he'd gone because like Chronicle was like $13 million and it made over $100 million. It was like a big success. It's like, yeah, it's like a really cool. Yeah. It made like three people's careers. Yeah, exactly.

So like if he could have done that sort of thing again and maybe, if you wanted to do this universe thing of his own, like building up, why not do the Chronicle approach, but with like a fantastic four, but lean into like a more horror, like a low budget horror thing and do like a 20 million horror superhero type thing. I feel like people would be there for that and intrigued by that. But yeah, as Jake was saying, wrong characters to do it with. It's just off-putting and not in a way that I feel like assists anything. Like I don't really want to see the thing like in pain talking about how he's like used to the inherent pain of The rocks like views to him and him screaming, please help me read.

As he's like stretching through events or whatever. It's too much. It's not right for these characters. It's like such a clash. Also like you're going with this really like the way these actors are directed. Like it's very quiet. Like they're trying to be really quiet and like barely emoting. Like I feel like he was directing the kid actors the same way he was directing Miles

Teller of just like don't emote at all. Just say your lines. without any expression. And it's like so off-putting, especially when you have an actor like Miles Teller, when you have Michael B. Jordan, two of like very charismatic, big, like fun people to watch on screen

because they're charismatic and they, you know, maybe they're not the best actors. I think Michael B. Jordan is a good actor, but they're fun to watch on screen. Why are you having them just stand there in this awkwardly staged, like awkwardly directed scenes just standing,

talking about science? Like it's just so fucking a waste. And it can't find the tone. I can't find the right angle to take it because that first extremely dry half an hour where it's like building up the science or whatever. And there's no body horror or anything like that or foreshadowing of how it's going to go in that direction. So it is just this really bland like trying to build up. It tries to do a bit of the kind of quirky, snappy Marvel dialogue a little bit.

And it's just so like awkward. and there's zero chemistry. Like it makes the 2005 one seem like that crew had like amazing chemistry. Yeah. It is just like, dower and sad. It's like, yeah, I listen to Portishead and I'm serious. And like, I see the patterns in people. And it's like, oh, fuck, this is so plain and dry.

That monologue about the music. The fact that they even brought that back up again, too. Yeah. The fact that they brought that back. She was also listening to Portishead's, like, most popular drag. True. Poser alert, normally or something. Bordershead is great. Everybody listened to Dummy. That's a great album. Yeah, amazing album.

Nice. Well, you can really think about patterns mathematically if you listen to that album. So you'll get really good at pattern recognition. It's trying to be like the quippy Marvel thing, but also, yeah, again, this understated, like, quiet drama. but like again, why are they trying to do that with Fantastic Four in the first place? Like obviously, like, and then you look at how it's even from scene to scene, every scene the way it's directed. It's so fucking boring and not dynamic at all. Like, it makes the 2005 Fantastic Four look like it was directed by Spielberg.

Just the way the camera moves, the way the colors pop, the way things are staged in a way that makes sense instead of, oh, we're just standing in this empty lab. And it's like, it's not dynamic. I don't know if I agree. I don't know if I agree. Because in the... Really? Yeah, I think like generally in terms of like how it's directed,

I felt like there was a bit more of like something interesting happening here. I like that there were, you know, things like the time lapse shots. I'm like, okay, that's an interesting way to show this. I think that inherently because of the fact that most of this takes place in just a lab, they're not using the space as well as they could. But I mean, in terms of, you know, how how the camera moves in a scene, I didn't feel like it looked bad, really. Um, really? Well, I mean, during some of the CG shots there were. But what about all the stuff in the other dimension? Yeah. The dimension should, yeah, every shot there looked terrible. Yes. Oh my God.

Like the everything shot in that other dimension like looks awful. Yeah, and the whole like last act and all of the action, all of that stuff is horrendous. In the non-CG shots, just like the regular shots, you know, things were nicely framed for the most part, not like expertly or anything, but it had a bit more personality. Even like the action scene in the woods. No, yeah, that had some CG in it. That was terrible. Because Rockman's CG, the thing is, he's the worst designed in this film.

And it was just boring, like the guy playing him. There's nothing fun or interesting about any of the dynamics here. Like, it's all fucked up. It's just empty and nothing, nothing at all. It's the, yeah, that grim, dark problem where if you're doing that, you need to kind of up the believability of the world you're creating. Because, like, the cartoonishness of the 2005 one just leaves you writing off certain things. Like, okay, the tone is a certain way.

It doesn't really matter. It's carefree and poppy, like, whatever. But then you have like the crux of the movie is like these these scientists from the Baxter Foundation are like at this high school fair. And that's where they get like Miles Teller. And they're doing this science thing next to this like five year old with a toy car. And it's like what? This is like dumber. Like you've made this dumber than like the 60s fantastic war like the way you're trying to channel this stuff.

It really is. Like, I don't know why they have to be so young, why we have to see them as kids, because they're trying to set up, like, the relationship dynamics, I think, between, like, Ben and Reed, but there's nothing there. And then they're in college, and it's like they're still young. So I also, why is Tim Heidecker there? Oh, yeah, that was such a... Yeah, there's loads of weird, like, random actors that probably, like Homer Simpson as well. He's the teacher in that classroom. Yeah, loads of character actors show up I like how Tim Heidecker got Like a proper title in the end credits Before the scroll

He had like name in the center His own title Tim Heidecker I'm like oh He got 15 grand for that Nice Why go through the trouble With putting him in there

If you aren't going to give him Anything to do at all Yeah, I don't know why he was in there It's like more distracting Yeah That was so funny But the cast really isn't the problem I don't think.

There is an alternate timeline where all these actors are playing similar characters, but it's written or presented differently, and they would all be fine for the roles. I think anyone's like necessarily that miscast. Like Toby Kebill, he's like a good actor, but this version of Doom, he's always like, looks like he's about to cry and his eyes are glistening, and there's this whole like love triangle thing he's doing. He, like, loves Kate Mara or something, but that's never really indulge.

But then by the time he falls into the goo, he just becomes, like a megal maniac and kind of stops being a character. Yeah. I mean, of course, like, a lot of this was probably expanded on in the original idea that Josh Trank had where I think it wanted it to be like two hours, 20 minutes long or something, and we wound up within an hour and 40 minute movie here that just like wraps itself up before anything even gets set up. Like, there's no buildup to that third act like climax.

There was no third. And all the stuff in the trailer. Yeah, yeah, there basically is none. It's so strange the way it wraps up Because yeah, you'd think the Yeah, but then the like nerve to have the Say That again seen like right after that As if we've just had like an Avengers type like wow

Like a 40 minute action scene where all this stuff that's been laid down Carefully throughout the movies now being paid off. It's like what? Like now you're trying to be like the goofy fantastic four right at the end And like implying all this like chemistry and like what? That was one of the ones. of my favorite things about watching this in a theater is because, like, I had no, you know, I wasn't going to, like, check my phone for the time. I had no, I don't even remember if I knew the runtime

before going into it, because my expectations, as I was watching through the movie, by the time they, they all decide to go after Dr. Doom and, like, follow him and do the, you know, go through the portal and beat him up, I thought that that was, like, the end of a first act. I was like, oh, interesting. That was a really long first act, but we finally set things up, and I'm interested in seeing where things go. And then they just, like, beat them in two seconds, and then the movie ends. I'm like, wow.

The fact that that was just so, like, monumentally unsatisfying was just the funniest was just the funniest thing to me. Like, I loved it. It has such an end cyclonex. It was genuinely funny. Has one of the most fucked up pacing of any movie. I've ever seen. Like the first half.

I checked when I was watching, I was like halfway through right in the middle is when they get their powers. I'm like, what? There's in no way. It's mostly first act, yeah. Yeah.

That's why it felt like a first act still. But also these changes that they're indulging in just make them much more unlikable as characters because now they're like dumb teenagers trying to get, I guess, credit for building this machine

that takes you to another dimension instead of just being these like scientists in space and then there's something goes a bit wrong and they all get powers I want to be famous putting more agency on them

that way yeah yeah and showing like the fire going into one pod and that's way is the fire

and the rocks get sucked into another one it's like this is making it dumb and then and then him stretching so if he didn't

try to pull himself forward would he be rubbery right was it the action that he took after getting out of the pod that gave him those powers.

If I were to get zapped by the goo universe and I just started doing push-ups, would I just be like, the push-up guy? Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. It makes it so much dumber when you try to apply that kind of logic to it, you know, where it's like it misses the forest for the trees entirely. And then why is she invisible? This way of doing it. Wait, what does the push-up guy do?

Is he just super strong only with push-ups? Oh, he distracts people with how epic his mind. push-ups are. They're entrancing. It literally puts people in a trance. Most the monkeys, poor, though,

like you can only walk around as if you're doing push-ups or something. Like, you have to walk around with that. Yeah, but you're just like the best at it. You have to walk on your hands. This movie has a year later break

right after they get their powers. You don't see them discover their power. They're just like a year later. Ben is working for the military. like committing murder and like terrorizing foreign nations. But the movie is so ambivalent about its relationship to the military because like they're mad at Reed for running away. And it's like he should have stayed and like that's a dumb miscommunication. Like he should have stayed and worked for the military and like, what are you doing?

I think he's still pissed at him for like leaving. in the vent, as if he could have done anything. Like, dude was stuck to the floor. I don't know what you expected him to do. Yeah. It was a rock man. It was a crazy situation. Just the general concept of, of, oh, you abandoned me and now, you're probably out having

fun somewhere. You didn't even call me. Like, I don't know. It's just, it's the, that's one of the worst aspects of the plot is just that dumb. Miscommunication to have them be mad. at each other. I hate, I hate it. It's so poorly done. Just the way it jumps, like all the fun stuff that you see in these other movies, like the best

parts of the movies of just the dynamic of when they get their powers and exploring and all that. No, they're just a year later, they're all working for the U.S. military. Reed is out. They got to go get them. And then what happens then? Then Dr. Doom comes back and he's just like, I want to kill everyone at the end. Yeah, what's his motivation?

He's like, Earth actually isn't great. you guys are kind of lame over here so you know why did he want to do that the green goo like makes him crazy the green goo he like loves his green goo world and he hates earth and he wants to like turn the earth into green goo world or something like combining the dimensions with a big beam like going into the sky

sky beam nice the classic how did that manage to happen as just like a bad superhero movie hallmark like why would they all copy Avengers 2012. I think they all just copied that. Oh, there was a good one in there? Mm-hmm.

Okay. It's the classic. Like, yeah, just becomes the... Oh, that's the formula. Let's do the formula. Cool. That's funny. It just gets worse and worse

with each, like, iteration. Some of the things they, like, establish with the way, going back to the... how serious they're making it. The shape-shifting, like, face and stuff like that. And then you're, like, really paying attention to his face.

And then you notice the continuity of this facial hair just, like, appearing and disappearing between shots and like you see on the computer with his like suit he's designed it's called like the flexor coils and shit like that it's like this is like dumb this is so stupid yeah i mean you can look at these movies these fantastic four movies as like reactions to the trends like the first the 2005 one is reaction to the sam ramy x-men you know phase of things this one is a reaction to um the dark night i guess you know like darker tone

but also like that serious like dryness man of steel yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah so it's like now this new one coming up what is the reaction there like what are they I guess we'll have to wait and see but at least the new one looks like colorful they have colors and it looks like

cartoonish and pulpy like I feel like that's somewhat inherent to translating the stuff it's almost like as out of touch and crazy as that you know that 90s Mario movie but so you've changed so much like what's even the point of this existing

outside of the just the craziness of this existing in this form I feel like James Gunn could handle Fantastic 4 if you wanted to I know he's busy on Superman but yeah no doubt he definitely could know how

Oh yeah that's like his oh yeah that's that makes way more sense for him to do that than to do Superman but yeah that's why I'm interested in both because I'm like, how is James Gunning going to pull off Superman? And how is Marvel going to pull off this material in like a sincere way? Anyways, I don't know.

Maybe we can talk about that in a second. Yeah. We're still talking about fan four stick. So, yeah, this film was being pulled in different directions. So Josh Trank had like a baby meltdown. He had a little tantrum. He pooped his daipies. Decided to sabotage the production because he didn't get,

what he wanted, rather than just playing ball, which, I mean, if you've already signed a contract to do a fucking Marvel movie, you got to play ball. What you expect? Yeah, like literally what did you expect what happened? Exactly, exactly. Like, make, just, just bite the bullet, right? Tough it out for however long you have to. Even if you're making something that you feel is going to be a bad movie, you just take the money and, and, you know, ideally it's successful, right? Ideally, it's a successful film even if it's bad, but like you're kind of guaranteeing that it's not only going to be something that the fans hate, it's something that you hate,

the studio hates, like, not making any money, you're ensuring its own demise when you walk off set and you have to have other ghost directors come in to finish the movie doing reshoots. and then the film feels like an unfinished movie because nothing fucking happens and there's no buildup at the end it feels like a fucking scam so there's one thing we didn't mention about the drama that is very funny

one day before the film's release Josh Trank tweeted a year ago I had a fantastic version of this and it would have received great reviews you'll probably never see it that's reality though so literally before the release of the film One day before it's wide release, you're trashing it.

Like, dude, do you want to work in the industry? Like what you, you know? That's wild. It's crazy because he was like in. That's what's even more wild about that, you know? Yeah. Like, holy shit. Like, why would you sound like it that way?

Because I feel like in this, in the studio system, like, they would understand if you make a shitty movie, but you play ball. And like, you have your name attached to it. So, like, people. would understand, you know, how a movie can happen that's shitty in this giant studio system. But, you know, if you're doing that kind of shit, like, then, then who's going to want to hire? I mean, yeah. I have no idea. Trying to save face for your ego.

If, like, Fincher, when he was making Alien cubed, you know, like, if he was making Alien cubed, and it was like, fuck this, fuck all you. And then maybe you never would have had that leg into the industry. And to what he put out there. Was there any, like, a trank, like a Snyder cut tie? We want to see the Trank cut Because he doesn't have the fan base of a Snyder To get any

Any wind behind those cells No, but I would like to see his original film But most of it wasn't filmed So it's not like on the editing room for So it's not something that we could get I would let's get him on the podcast And just have him explain it beat by beat You trink

Give us the whole screenplay Tell us about your dog's sitting everywhere Yeah I want to know about that You know, there is stuff, though, that could have been studio, like, putting out a hit on him with, like, bad press and stuff.

I could totally see that happening. Like, I'm sure, you know, just him going out there and saying that this movie's bad, it would make sense for the studio to want to make him look as crazy and unprofessional as possible. Yeah, who knows, really? There's lots of sources.

Like, apparently he was throwing punches at Miles Teller, Kate Mara had some really bad stuff to say about him. Oh, really? The actors all had bad stuff to say? Yeah. At least those two were the main ones I was reading. Okay.

Have been vocal about it. I think that in my mind, the type of person to abandon a movie and then try to save face for your own ego before it's out and basically tell people not to watch it when you're not the only person involved in the production, right? and other people's careers are on the line. That type of person that would do that, I think would probably also do the other things he's accused of and seems like a very emotionally unstable individual, right?

That's why I kind of just believe their take. As Sue Storm says, there's a bit of a pattern. Maybe Chronicle was more autobiographical than we thought. Yeah, maybe. Mad with power. Yeah, I don't hate this movie. I do. Oh, I do.

I give it a low rating, but I don't hate it. I'm, like, more intrigued by it and, like, fascinated. And I'm not, like, super bored by it, honestly. I know a lot of people are. Oh, my God. Unbearable. I think it's really boring. I'm fascinated by it, but I like reading about it more than actually watching it.

The only, only sliver of, like, oh, that's the idea, is that reveal of the powers. And, you know, looking back at the stretch leg and the... Help me! Stuff. It's just like, yeah, the way it looks. We're watching warfare all of a sudden. Yeah. But it's more just kind of like bizarre.

The acting is probably the best out of the four. No. Yeah. No. Yeah, I think so. I think they're good actors, but they're like, the direction is all crazy. They're like... They have nothing to work with, nothing.

It's so understated. There's no chemistry. There are scenes where they'll just start laughing at. nothing. Like, they'll just say nothing and then just start laughing like, oh, let's pretend we have chemistry. Like, yeah, the awkward, like, this is going on Instagram. Like, shit, like, how are you supposed to sell that stuff? Like, you're the science guy in the other dimension? And that, like, that's the line you're saying. They didn't have a lot to work with. Yeah, exactly. Whereas, like, Michael Chickles, like, he gets like an awesome performance. And he's

putting on this, like, crazy suit that takes, like, four hours to put on. And it's like, This is like a CG rock guy and they can't even make him like cool or interesting or do anything with any of these characters. Also, Miles Teller has played more of like an introverted shy type of character in Whiplash, you know, like I think like a year before this came out, right? Yeah. Yeah, 2014 was Whiplash. Yeah. So like he can pull that off. But in this, it just seems like he's a jock like pretending to be shy.

It's very weird. Yeah. It's just a weird angle to make the characters so young. I feel like part of the fun of it is that they're all kind of a bit older. But they don't look young. They look just the same age as the 2005 characters. That's true. Yeah, I don't know.

It's just kind of a disaster from every angle. Maybe if they cast actual like 18 year old. Yeah. I thought the music wasn't bad, not as good as the 94, but much better than the 2005 and 2007. Really? Yeah. I didn't even know. I thought it was about on the same level.

Like, just nothing going on really. Yeah. There was something there. It wasn't like completely cynical. Like it was definitely following like, this is what you should. This is,

this is the type of tone slash genre you should be doing for superheroish movies in this time period. Like it was definitely in there. But yeah, it wasn't terrible. I'd like to see someone put the 94 fan four stick music on top of this one. Very well. what it looks like.

It would probably improve it by like two stars for me. Or the 94 fan-foristic effects. Just like a rubber arm. Well, he's like, help me. Anything, anything at all would just make this so much better. It's even something bad. Just anything. Give us something.

A lot of people saw it. There's 183,000 ratings on IMDB. A lot of people were morbidly curious. they didn't go out to the cinema really 120 million dollar budget only returned 167 so yeah

not what they were hoping for yeah I don't hate this three out of ten hmm it was interesting all right man I agree that it's interesting but I don't think really anything about it's a film works

there's not a single good interesting character there's flashes of flashes of like an interesting concept that would be better in a movie inspired perhaps by the Fantastic War not using the IP. I think it misses the entire point of these characters. There's no fun to be heard. There's no pulp. There's no color. It's kind of a unmitigated disaster, half-star.

Yeah. I think Alex, you said it perfectly. One out of ten, half-star for me. Yeah. Why is the 4K Blu-ray $40 right now? Somebody printed like 100 of them. Are you going to buy this on board? I was thinking about it.

You're not. Not for $40. I was saying if it was like $5, I would buy it. Because a flop like this that, you know. Yeah, for that Josh Tranker commentary track on the bonus features. Like when you get something that's like a big, you know, supposed to be a big Marvel movie or whatever and then no one buys it. you get some good deals.

They're just trying to get rid of them. Are there ever any $5.4Ks out there? $12.12. I feel like every 4K disc is at least $20. Yeah, they're pretty expensive. If you overprint and you have no idea what to do with them, then you start selling them for cheaper. But yeah, $40 is way too much.

I'm not doing that. You should do it. Complete your collection. No. I should be more responsible with my money right now. I've had a lot of other expenses. Thanks for the recommendations. Join the Patreon so Adam can buy 4K Fan 4K Fan 4K Stick.

Fan 4K stick. Yeah. Question time. Right. Let's do some questions then from the Saldonikas community. Head over to the suggestion thread over on the subreddit. You want to ask questions for future episodes, just like Pelican. 22 did. Is there an Adam can't stand Star Wars equivalent for Jake and Alex?

I'll let you ever think for a second, Jake, will I? I'm, I guess my, I have a couple of things that bobbing into my head. Just anything that illumination make, I think it's my, like, go to, like, I don't think any of these are good. They're, like, so cynical and insincere. Are you allergic to them? And they've, I, I'm, I'm quite allergic to them. I just feel like I see, I can see the like the boardroom. I can see the Don Draper's like cynically designing this like perfect cheaply made like animated kids film that like just doesn't really care about like anything. Maybe that or another one. It's not even that I dislike the original movie that started like the franchise, but like I don't get why we have so many ghost buses movies.

I don't understand why it couldn't be a one-and-done situation. Like, the original I enjoy is cool, but why are there like five of these fucking films, and most of them are, like, terrible and, like, pointless. So I'd say, yeah, there's nothing exciting about Ghostbusters or any illumination project, and that includes the Mario movie. Fuck that movie. Yeah. I guess I've only seen two illumination films.

Mario, the Duck one. You never saw any of the despicable maze? No. Why the fuck? Right. Of course. You're not a baby. Why would you watch a baby movie?

I mean, there's good kids movies. Yeah, that's my point. You're just being harsh to a kid's movies. I said, well, those kids grow up in adults. Yeah. I would say for mine, I guess Zach Snyder movies. That's kind of like, I've. I just really, really hate, I think it started with Man of Steel when I saw that was like a very particular moment of like, fuck this.

Like whatever this type of filmmaking is, just very on the nose, very bombastic and focusing on things that I find very superficial in filmmaking in general that has made movies and more shallow. I mean, I get there are people who defend Zach Snyder, and that's totally, like, I have no problem with that or anything like that. Just he has such a cult of people that treat him like God, and I don't get it, and I find his movies very boring. Yeah, that's a good pull, because I don't think I've ever had a director quite on this level that I did sort of enjoy in the, like, 2000s to a certain. point, but I, I, I, I went back and tried to watch watchmen, like a year or two ago, and was like, now, all the Snyderisms are here, and, like, this, this made me, like, reassess him completely. So it's like, man, how does 300 even, like, hold up?

Like, I don't know. That's how I feel about James Cameron. No. Right in my heart. Yeah. He's fucking rewatching aliens or whatever. I'm like, space marines. A fucking robot suit

Like Oh, there's water Okay I love the bolts as though Whatever dude Yeah what's wrong with water Goodness Oh maybe that would be the next

Spy recommendation Every James Cameron movie Oh okay great Since you brought up Zach Snyder I was actually thinking You know The Fant 4 stick

doing its like bad seriously toned dark kind of interpretation of superhero movies. I still prefer that to any Snyder superhero movie, you know? I feel like it does it better than those. For me, anyway. Like, I'm actually able to, like, understand what it's doing and why it would do that for parts of the movie. I'd pick Snyder over it.

I guess if I have to compare, I would still say Manor Steel was better than that. I actually would take Man of Steelover Fan. Yeah, because at least there is, I don't agree or like his voice, but it is a voice, you know. It's not nothing. It's more consistent, too. It is a tone. It's not a tone, I think, that makes sense for that character or that movie, but it's at least consistent within itself, you know.

Whereas I don't know what Van Forstick was. It doesn't really nail anything. Yeah. while speaking of, shadow conspiracy asks, which fantastic four power would you want and why? Stretchy. They all suck. You want to be made out of rocks?

I feel like there's three like solid choices and who's going to, who wants to be a rock man? I'm sure there's, I say that. There's probably an handful of wood like that. Who wants to be some kind of geological dude? Yeah. stretching might be handy exactly that's the most practical you could do whatever you want so like going invisible to be fair but then everyone would accuse you of every crime I guess I guess I found out you could

do it yeah you know if as long as he had a really good lawyer that annoyed me in and four stick where like the doctor doomy's like strangling Mr. Fantastic and it's like aren't you like a stretchy dude like how do you strangle someone who can like stretch? Like, you just like stretch your neck out of this? That's what I was yelling at the screen to have happen also. Just stretch out of it, dude. I'd pick flying, I guess. Yeah, you know.

Yeah, fire flying. There's like no downside to three of them. The fire one? I guess so. As long as you have very good control over turning it on and off, which I don't know if that was like, When I'm thinking of like the Chris Evans one or whatever, it seems like sometimes he just, like,

did it in inappropriate situations. And I think the risk of that outweighs the coolness of flying and being able to have fire powers. Really? Yeah. Whereas, like, if I accidentally am stretchy or whatever, that is nothing bad happening. I don't know.

He's like walking around his apartment, like popping popcorn. Like, oh, no, I became more stretchy than I wanted to right now. I feel like flying is less of a exciting, thing for me, you know, the older I get of thinking like, okay, where would I go? Like, all right, I'm just flying myself. I can't like bring my, my wife and my kid, you know, because I'm on fire, you know, like, am I going to meet you guys there? Like, yeah, like, how fast am I going? You know, it'd probably be much faster to take a jet. Yeah, you'd have to, like, register yourself as, like, an aircraft thing. You'd have to, like, communicate. You'd have like an air permit. Yeah,

Yeah, like, you'd definitely run into legal trouble just being in the sky at all. Because you'd have to avoid, you know, any air traffic, you know? Like, they would get your ass legally if you tried flying. For a stretchy... I feel like all of them would probably get you in legal trouble. The stretchy one? I reckon stretchy, you'd get experimented on. Like, people would want to know what's up, you know?

If you flexed it in any way. If anyone sees that you can do that, they want to know how it. I live in Canada, I think you're fine. You have the government knocking at your door. You can be a stretchy. in Canada. The notoriously aggressive Canadian government would want to know how you're stretching that way.

Yeah. Well, our new dictator, Mark Carney, would definitely kidnap me. Damn. Yeah, stretch is my answer. Easy. Yeah, I'd go stretch. Yeah, I want to be a stretchy dude. Invisible. I want to know your guys' opinions on this one from Orwellian

underscore wizard. Saw a trend on TikTok about a hypothetical battle between 100 Americans and 100 Brits. I was wondering if you guys had any thoughts on the matter. Personally, I think the battle could be one with just five Florida men. We can add in 100 Canadians too to make this fair. Who's winning?

Are we allowed weapons? Because Americans have guns. That would be easy. If it's just like, oh, like... With guns and obviously Americans. But without guns, I'm going with Brits because Americans are antisocial and fat.

Yeah, like, I don't know, is it 100 Americans, so like, what, two from every state or something? Or can they all be from one state? Because there's very different, like, cultures throughout America. You know, there's not just one idea of what an American is.

Yeah, similar here. But you just got a way bigger pool to choose from an America, just like, it's like hundreds of millions, there's more people there. So just like proportionally, they're going to be like 100 Florida.

men versus, I don't know if the Somerset Gimp can handle going up against Florida man, you know, I don't know what are craziest stuff. If it's like randomly decided from your population, I guess we'd have to look at like how healthy the average American versus Brit is. I'm going with Brits, I got to say. Maybe I'd wager the Brits then. If it's random, if you get to choose, I feel like America would win. But if it's randomized, then.

I mean, I don't know about. you Alex but I feel like aren't you guys all just like getting into random brawls every time someone plays soccer or something yeah after the soccer game after the pub yeah we're violent people

and aggressive people football I can't believe you're calling it soccer Alex stand your ground that's a win that's a win for us my god so yeah I guess we decided Americans would win Jesus Christ over Alex you gave up you gave up

They've already won in a way. Oh my God. You are a race trader. And what about Canadians? They just, they're nowhere. The British race, I've betrayed them. Yes. Also, I like how the question said, throw in 100 Canadians.

I'm like, who am I fighting though? Who are the Canadians? No, no, I threw in the 100 Canadians just to make it fair. Yeah, who were the Canadians fighting? Geese. Yeah, yeah. They just wanted, they didn't even acknowledge the, Yeah, they're just over on the side fighting, I guess, themselves.

Fighting the goose. Yeah. One bear-sized goose. Terrifying. Let's end on this one from Alex the Man, 99. No, it's not me. With the recent release of the weekend's companion movie to his album, Hurry Up Tomorrow, Bombing Critically and Commercially.

What will be your dream album to have an accompanying movie? I remember that you guys have talked about Pink Floyd's The War movie in a previous episode. That's a good one. Are any of you going to watch this movie? I've seen some clips, so it's kind of funny. I'm going to watch it when it's out on digital for sure. You can count on that for me. Isn't that like a notable director, too?

Yeah, Trey Edward Schultz. Oh, it's so weird. So allegedly he was like depressed after making waves an A-24, like, kind of botching the release. and no one's seeing it. And so allegedly, like, the weekend having this idea for him got him back into, like, the idea of making movies again and being more comfortable with it. So if that's what we get out of it is like, oh, Trey makes a shitty movie, but he's making more movies after this, that's a win for me. So, yeah. I mean, Kreecia was so good.

Nice. I have a Blu-ray. Waves was great, too. Yeah. It comes at night. It's a shame no one saw it, I guess. He hasn't made a bad film aside from the one that I haven't seen yet, allegedly. So, yeah, apparently it comes out digitally, like this week.

So I'll probably just see it this weekend. Oh, wow. God, it's so quick now the turnaround. Wait, what was the question? The question was, what's an album you'd actually like to see an accompanying movie? Oh, right, right. one. What's your answer?

I would like to see because Paul Schrader directed the music video for tight connection to my heart with Bob Dylan, Bob Dylan's song, and it's insane. I don't know if you guys have ever watched that music video, but it's brilliant and so, so cocaine 80s, everything, like it's perfect. It is so baffling and funny. I wish that there was a full movie for that entire album. Empire Borlesque. Just look up the album art for Empire Burlesque, Bob Dylan,

and you'll get an idea of what it would be like. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay, yeah. Like, I can see the vision, yeah. Okay, yeah. So it was fun. I feel like I'm such a broken record with the animation ship,

but animated guerrillas project of some kind, demon days, something like that. I know that was supposed to manifest in some form. Like over the years, they've been like, there's going to be a TV show, there's going to be a Netflix movie, and it just never comes together. But that would definitely be my answer. If it was animated like the old 2D music videos,

I think that would be really cool. Sorry for the joke, I guess, a 2D joke. Yeah, that would be my pick. Cool. Yeah, a lot of my favorite albums, I'm not sure, like, what that would look like as a film. or if it should be like I don't know east by Joanna Newsom like that's so weird but then I'm like what would that translate to and what would you even show it could be

interesting you know fucking ex-military by death grips that could be fun like as long as it looks fucked up I don't even care if it has a plot their music videos are interesting enough the turning wheel by spelling it's a great album what would you even put What would you even put in there visually? I don't know. I'm just naming albums I like. Fucking random access memories. I have no idea.

I have no idea for this answer. How about if we took the original soundtrack for the Lion King and turned that into a movie? But it's like a documentary this time. What that look like. Ooh, that's clever. People would see that. More than the original. Yeah, I think so.

I think that's a good idea. Wait, wait, wait, I just realized we never actually talked about the new Fantastic Four. Do you guys have to share your quick thoughts about what you're anticipating or anything? We got 10 minutes or whatever. I'm most excited about how they're going to do a couple of these concepts, like what tone they're going to take, especially considering the way they're fairly serious. They've comedic kind of elements, these movies, but they try to take them seriously. How are they going to do that stretching? How are they going to do Galactors, Ian Planets?

I'm super curious how that's going to happen. There's a lot like riding on the movies as far as like it seems like it. It's quite important that it does well, I think for like the future of these movies. I'm pretty sure these characters are going to be like banked on someone. I hope it comes. So yeah, I don't know. I hope it's good. I would like see these characters done well and the trailers look interesting. Yeah, yeah, I like Vanessa Kirby. She's interesting to see there. She'll probably be an actual character this time. I mean, I mean, I. I like Vanessa Kirby. She's interesting to see there. She'll probably be an actual character this time. I mean, they're going to make it woke by not having her to have to be naked five times. Oh man, I can't wait for those a million videos about that. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. You never know. They're going to, I mean, yeah, it seems like they might put some effort into characterizing her.

If not, then what are you doing? Because that's like one of the obvious things to clean up from the other iterations. Yeah. What about you, Jake? Are you feeling about it? Oh, I'm actually excited. Like, I really like the retro futurist tone they're going with. Yeah.

The trailers look fun. I like the style. It's a little different from what they normally do. The music, I like the fantastic for, like there's something fun, very Incredibles-esque, like very overtly trying to go for that tone. But it's like they should. That's the tone to go for if you're going to try to do this. Like, if you're going to try to be good, go after what's great.

So I have hopes for it. One thing I'm hoping they manage to balance is like the comedy silliness with the seriousness. Right now it just feels like they're going full, serious, like really intense. I'm kind of hoping they keep some of that campiness, but who knows? Probably not. Yeah, it's two hours and ten minutes long. We're probably going to get a fucking Robert Downey Jr. your cameo at the end or something, right?

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't know how that's going to go down. They're going to want to set that up. Especially with like Thunderbolts. With Thunderbolts, like not doing that well. Box Office, do you guys think, do you think Box Office, Superman or Fantastic Four wins? Superman wins.

Superman. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Like, I mean, yeah, it's the name of the character. I just put that on the fucking title. You can already tell.

It looks it does look a bit better. It doesn't have the baggage really that Marvel kind of has on its shoulders. Yeah, it's a clean slate kind of thing. Yeah. The name attached to it is better. Who the fuck is Matt Shackman? Who the hell are you?

They did Wanda Vision, cool. I don't care. Oh, the director, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, like, I'm excited for it to come out and hear you two talk about it and me do better things with my life. Wait, okay, Adam, you haven't seen them yet, but what's your rating? Oh, for the new Fantastic Four movie, first steps?

For both of them and Superman. What's your rating? Oh, Superman? I'll probably give Superman a high six or a low seven if it's a low seven if it's really impressive. Right. We'll see. It might be like a six. And then Fantastic Four First Steps. I don't think I'm ever going to watch it. But let's just say like a four or a five somewhere between somewhere around there. Those are my expectations for like either of those two.

If it gets a five from you, I consider that a massive success. Yeah. I mean, I consider that to be a Normie masterpieces. Oh, hell yeah. I'm getting ready for our normie masterpieces. All right. Thank you. All right.

Cool. And we did it. So Pride Month is saving both of you. Even though what I was going to recommend, I didn't consider to be a spite recommendation. It was just something that was like kind of short. But I'm like, yeah, I should probably do a gay thing. We always forget to tie it in with like occasions, you know? We always forget Halloween to do a horror movie.

We never do a Christmas movie. We like rarely do these things So I'm just like we're gonna we're gonna do it And I noticed that there was one from a director that I have yet to pop my cherry on and have been meaning to for a while Named Wongkar-Y He directed a film called Happy Together Oh And it's a romantic drama

And it looks like there's two dudes in it so Sweet Yeah very excited have either of you seen a Wongar-Y film Yeah don't think so I've been meaning to for a while so I've seen I've seen Chunking Express

I think and I've definitely seen in the mood for a lot yeah yeah those are the big ones people talk about yeah happy together 1997 one car Y and it's not that long either it's 96 minutes so this should be a breeze

if you want to watch that and not get spoiled by listening to our podcast then watch it before the next episode is out. These episodes come out every two weeks. You can listen to them early by going to Sardonicast.com. Sign up for premium. You can listen to the show ad free. Also, patreon.com slash Sardonicast. Also, just click the fucking thing below the video that says join for members or whatever. You can listen to it ad free and early. Early and ad free. Do you hate ads? I hate ads.

What are you going to do? Buy YouTube premium? Yes. What are you going to do? Install an ad blocker? Those things are bad. Also, YouTube, Google's been doing this thing where they've just been making anybody who installs an ad blocker just have like a really annoying experience. Yep. Where they'll just make it so that things aren't working properly. People go like, why is the video messed up?

It's because you have an ad blocker extension. So get rid of that. Or whitelist our videos or some. Can you do that? No, because they're not like a dedicated page. Yeah, whatever. don't use that book. We gotta go.

Thanks for listening, everybody. Have a happy together 1997 film. Happy clover in time. A happy clop in time. Bye. Thanks for listening. Bye.