Sardonicast - Sardonicast 192: Mission: Impossible – The Final Reckoning, Happy Together

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sardonicast.bsky.social Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Jake's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ManCarryingThing Jake's movie channel: https://www.youtube.com/@womancarryingman Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/yms.bsky.social Jake's twitter: https://x.com/ManCarrying Jake's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mancarryingthing.bsky.social Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Jake's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mancarryingthing Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Timestamps: 0:00 Mission: Impossible – The Final Reckoning 47:18 Happy Together 1:26:28 Questions 1:08:11 Recommendation + outro

Three, two, one. Let's start over. Three, two. Well, I could just keep doing that, but it's kind of a, we're talking about that in the movie, the recommendation, starting over. So I could just do that forever until it's awkward.

That was good. Yeah, do that for 19 minutes. You should have. Three. I'm Adam from your movie sex. This is Sardana Cass. Hello. Hi, I'm Alex from I.

And I'm going to say, Humpty Dumpty, sat on a wall. Oh, did he? And then what? Wait, is that it? Is that all he says? Do you remember? I'm pretty sure like that.

It's been a while since I've seen the third one. Yeah. He just says Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall and then proceeds with the mission. I'm pretty sure like that is the joke. Yeah. Yeah. It's really emphasized too. Like it goes right up to his face.

Humpty Dumpty sat in a wall. Then he just runs away. Okay. I haven't seen these movies in forever. I'm Jake. I'm Jake from Mancare anything. Hi. Hi.

Hey, what's up? Hi. Hello. Yeah. Adam, what is your favorite Mission Impossible movie? Mm.

Fuck. I don't think I have one. Did you like the Brad Bird one? J.G. Abrams in the mix. I just honestly, I'm like, they're better than Star Wars, you know? but I'm just like...

Damn right, they are. I just don't feel attached enough to keep them in my memory. Like, I'll revisit them someday for sure. I think I'd be more likely to get more out of the older ones just as like a time capsule nostalgia thing, right? And like a cultural milestone in Philadelphia. filmmaking or you know I guess just the cinematic experience of itself you will love the John Wu one your favor I just I couldn't even tell you who directed which one I do think I do

think the John Wu one would be Adam's favor just because it is it is goofy and insane but it is kind of unwatchably bad okay from a story perspective it's horrible but are there doves in it there are oh yeah there are doves in it okay good yeah which one's the John Wu one the second one okay the second one that's it you know I probably could have guessed second one something about the

a lot of a lot of franchises the sequel the direct sequel is usually like just kind of shit and then they managed to like pick it up again well Alex do you have any strong do you have any strong favorites among the mission impossible movies I think it's a weird example of a franchise where

it peaked like quite far in. I think Fallout is the gold standard for these types of movies for what they've been trying to be the whole time. I thought it got the pacing right and the sprinkling of like the set pieces throughout and how it escalates and just won't let the tension drop. So that would be my pick for sure, Fallout. I feel like that's aged really well in time too. It was the one that I just revisit too. That was kind of my issue with the latest ones. They're just getting longer and longer and Well, I feel like Fallout perfected the formula completely.

It's like everything that's great and fun about it, like the chemistry, the action, the humor, the stunts. It was like perfect before it starts trying to do something a little different. And that's where it's, you know, mixed results for lots of people. But we'll get into that, of course. Yeah. I mean, I personally love and I think the Brad Bird Mission Impossible is kind of underrated now at this point because I, that's, was one I saw in theaters. I think the first one I saw in theaters with my dad and I was like, holy shit, the, the Birch Khalifa scene alone is just so brilliant. It's almost been buried

that one, despite how good it is. It kind of goes to show how many are enjoyable action movies that have come about from this franchise. Like, it's weirdly consistent. Um, even on the surface level of like, even in a, this might be a weird comparison, but like a sore type way where it's like, how are they going to outdo the torture scene or in this case that actually? scenes this time. Like it's all about the scale and the, you know, the marketing of what the horrifying thing is Cruz going to put himself through this time. And part of it for me was like the fallout. I don't know, the stunts he was doing like driving helicopters around by himself and jumping across like he's Mario on the rooftops of London and like breaking his feet and stuff.

It's like it's wild. And there is just this feeling of like holding on this like the last movie star type thing of Tom Cruise. What a show off. Carrying this on his back almost single-handedly. Yeah, but he's that show-off that deserves it to me. It's like, man. Oh, I know. I mean, he's Tom Cruise, but

he's damn good at making these blockbusters. He's good at it, man. I can't take that away from him. But yeah, I don't know. I got mixed feelings about the final reckoning if we want to move into that because yeah, I was I was slightly disappointed.

I'm good to talk about it. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Okay, full disclosure for everyone listening. I didn't watch the movie. What would you rate it? 10. But I didn't see the previous one either.

Thank you. Okay. That's fine. I'll take the 10. That's a win. We count those. Yes. I have a question.

Did he thank the audience for watching the movie at the beginning? He did. Yeah. There were two things I actually wanted to mention before. we actually get into the movie, that being one of them. Because I had such a strange experience where, yeah, before the movie begins, there's like a video of Tom Cruise as himself, looking into the camera and thanking the audience for going out to the cinema or whatever, and it's cute or whatever. It's funny.

But as that video was wrapping up, someone, and it sounds like a bit like I'm lying, someone in the robe right behind me, turned to his friend and said, who is that? like as that was like wrapping up like little conversation use that's fine i was just like what wait so you've come to see the last mission impossible movie and you don't know don't don't gruze is okay i mean fair fine um i was just trying not to laugh because then the movie like starts and that's the only thing like ringing in my head and it was like so distracting to me oh man but that combined with i guess the other kind of surreal experience i have with this movie and you You guys got to catch me up if it's something you've experienced, but like, I don't know,

I feel like AI and automation comes up constantly, but this is my first time going to a movie theater, and it went bankrupt like a year ago, and a different company came in and redid the whole joint to like a different brand and whatnot, and it's all completely automated now. So like my whole experience of going into the building, two sitting on my seat, I didn't interact with a single human, which I've never experienced at a movie theater before. normally at least I have my ticket scanned and it was just like what I'm like the whole villain of the movie being an AI as well and all this I'm just like what is going on are you guys like how automated your movie theaters over there because I haven't seen this to this degree

before um it's not too automated I I use regal I'm like a loyalty member of regal whatever so I get to see however many movies I want in a month um but I just scan it at like a little computer and I used to be able to just walk in, but now they check my fucking ticket because they don't trust me or they're, I don't know. I don't know why. They just gave me the evil eye and they're like, oh, come over me. I think it is. I think it is. Yeah.

I think it's the mustache. I think it's a mustache now. Didn't used to have one. Untrustworthy. Yeah. I don't know. How is it in Canada? I mean, so, yeah, they check tickets at the door, but I just get my tickets online and it would just be a thing on my phone.

And then they just say what theater it's in, and then you go. And it's usually assigned seating. So, yeah, nothing too crazy. We don't have as many options for theaters here, unfortunately. There's some good indie ones, I guess. But I like Alamo Draft House, and I wish that there were some in Canada. I think assigned seating is a menace to the theater-going experience. Why?

Really, aren't I? Yeah. I mean, that's part of the thrill. You know, you go in. don't know who's sitting where. And you got to try out a few seats sometimes get the right sense of it. I mean, I look at a little map. And I can't get a sense of where I want to sit in the theater.

And then I go and sit down. And I go, oh, shit, I'm in a weird spot, you know. But you watch a lot of movies, though. So, like, how do you not know? I'm not very spatially aware. That's the problem. So I can't look at the screen, this AI. And it's what the entity would probably want for us to do, you know.

I like to move around. I like to know where, and what if someone weird is behind me, you know? What if someone's like picking their toes? Because that's what happened in the Minecraft movie. Some guy, some old man in front of me literally took off his socks and was picking his feet. And I'm like, this isn't the Minecraft experience I was expecting. I thought we were going to scream chicken jockey. Instead, I'm getting this guy picking his toenails.

That's about the Minecraft experience I would have expected. But you should do more film festival stuff then because, you know, Most film festivals don't do a sign seating, which can be a nuisance of its own. As long as you line up decently early, then you're fine. But TIF does assign seating now, which is awesome. But yeah, SIF does not. I don't know. I'm moving towards analog everything.

This movie, too. Final Reckoning, I feel like computers are the enemy. We shouldn't even be recording this podcast on a computer. We should be. We could do it over Landline. We should be doing it over landline and putting it on the radio. I mean, this is, this is frightening. It's scary stuff.

Joe Biden, excuse me, just evoking his name. Almost fucking killed me. Joe Biden was scared. Joe Biden was scared after watching the first one. Dead reckoning. He literally said, I'm scared of a high now. So that's, I listen to the, listen to Joe Biden, you know. Okay.

You get your orders from him. I do he venmoes me and I send out little comedy skits he's like this would be a good one this one would be fucking fire

I got a real crispy idea for you yeah they're usually very sexual in nature okay you have to turn it and I'm like I'm like Joe that's not this isn't fine yeah how was the movie so what are we talking about let's loop it back round I guess to

I guess I mention this is another victim of one of those we're gonna film this as two movies and release them one year after another and it's a part one part two situation but then the plans just fall through and it's

not part two anymore because I guess it was originally going to be dead reckoning part two but that movie didn't quite perform as they wanted so now it's been rebranded as the final reckoning not that like it's not really the kind of franchise where when I think about

the must haves for this idea like ever working it's usually based on some kind of like dense book like a dune or a harry pot or whatever where there's like loads of information and plot that you've got to communicate it's not really what i associate these mission impossible movies with so it's kind of audacious to do that from the get go in my mind um and that's kind of the growing issue i was getting out earlier where after fallout which is a fairly long movie it's like two and a half hours long but that that pace was just right and never managed to sag before me. Ever since that point, that point, these are nearly three hour long action films that are kind of goofy at their core.

And they're at their best when they're sort of self-aware or breezy about that and don't really give you time to sit around, like, reminiscing and thinking about all the exposition and the mechanics of all the Mcuffins and spy stuff. Like, that's, the more they sit around on that, the kind of weaker it is. and man the pacing I thought was the biggest issue of Deb reckoning part one but it was still like entertaining and fun I just feel like you could take out half an hour of that film maybe and I feel maybe close to an hour of the final reckoning you could like just brutally slice out because I just don't really understand what it was adding to an action film of this scope

and scale and I was just kind of disappointed of how much like insistence that it was getting out, especially in that first act of like, this is the big one, guys. It's all been built into this. Even though like in many previous Mission Impossible movies, I feel like the stakes have actually felt higher than this final reckoning, just with the nature of like how it was put together and how much more tension they were able to pull out of the situation just almost purely by it just moving so quickly and it are just being way better structured. I wasn't expecting sort of like member berries and, uh,

the kind of baggage that a franchise that has managed to avoid for a lot of this time for a franchise that's been going on for so many decades that it suddenly is just hit with at the end. So kind of mixed feelings and I think it's probably Christopher McCuery's weakest Mission Impossible. With the caveat being, I think it might have the best action scene out of any of them. So the high is extremely high. but overall it's just kind of like one of the messiest as far as pacing and structure how did it hit you jake as another fan of this franchise now i feel like you're

basically covering i think the general consensus is very in line with what you've um you've mentioned you know that it is kind of like gotten out of their hands they were doing the two-part movie and covid hit and the strikes hit and it was just a huge mess and you know part one kind of underperformed. Maybe that had a little bit to do with Barbenheimer coming out the week after that came out. But regardless, it kind of underperformed. And I think it kind of freaked them out because they're very... Christopher Macquarie has gone on record as talking about. He's very audience-focused. Audience-forward. If an audience doesn't respond, he wants to change the movie. They were doing reshoots for this second movie, like a week up until... Like, there are

parts of this movie that you'll watch and you'll... They shot that like a month ago, you know, or like right before the movie came out. Which is an insane way to... work. I mean, I'm so fascinated and interested in how they make these movies, how they could make fallout as tight as it is and how it worked very well, and how this one got out of their hands part one and part two. I would have agreed to, and here's the thing. All right. And I'm going to sound a bit crazy now at this point. And I can't help it. Finally. It's Joe Biden whispering in my ear every morning. I think that it was very good for this franchise to go in this direct. I think that they kind of perfected the formula with fallout.

And I do think that Christopher McGuire and Tom Cruise are trying to say something very sincere about AI and very sincere about the world. It might be kind of too sincere, a little too earnest. These movies are kind of sentimental and sappy. I mean, at the core of it, it's like a story about your best friends. You know, like that's the mission is, well, we got to protect and save everyone and also save the world and AI is going to destroy not just the film industry, but possibly the entire world. I mean, there's a huge subplot in the final reckoning that is basically fail safe, but with AI.

And Angela Bassett is the president and all her advisors. And I found those scenes. I thought they worked very well. I was really engrossed in the story itself. And I thought Dead Reckoning when it came out, Dead Reckoning, Part one. I thought that it was bloated. I thought like there was too much exposition and it was kind of clunky that first hour or whatever. And then it really kicked into high gear with the role action set piece and all that.

And it worked really well with the train scene. But I was like, why are we moving away in this direction, you know? But then I rewatched it before seeing the final reckoning. And I was trying to think about like, okay, what is this here for? And I just got really immersed in these dialogue scenes and how they shoot and compose and, and build up this dialogue and this sense of tension, it's like such a slow burn, but it is so enjoyable that I find now watching Dead Reckoning. My favorite parts were like those dialogue scenes, you know, with Kidridge, you know, talking to

everyone, all these great like TV actors, all these great faces, like just delivering this crazy exposition about AI and the fate of the show. the world. And I think that this sequel, I do think there is a bit of a backtracking of, okay, we don't want to lose the audience completely. And another situation of maybe the studio being like, hey, we can probably get a few more million dollars in box office revenue if we marketed as the last one. And we got to loop it around. We got to get the audience involved. So we got to have all these flashback moments. There's lots of flashback editing, especially in the first hour of this movie, lots of explaining what happened, not just in this movie,

but in the third movie and in the first movie, like, lots of callbacks. But to me, I feel like the core, like, message of the movie is the sense of paranoia and fear about AI and the future of the world. I don't think this is a really perfect movie. I don't think it's even an especially good movie. I do think it's kind of a great movie because of how anxious. and weird it is for this entire franchise. There's a kind of weird, dark undercurrent of energy.

And I don't know if I'm the only, I know there are people who are noticing this, but like there's a scene early on where he's literally locked into a coffin to communicate with the entity, which is basically just another exposition scene. But the way it's framed, the way it's shot, it's like a horror monster movie moment. You know, he comes out weeping. Like, it's so bizarre. Like the way that whole sequence is shot and framed. and how the existential paranoia in fear is like on high alert that this whole first, like, hour and a half of this movie until the submarine sequence is just building, building, building, building paranoia, fear tension.

It's the first Mission Impossible movie to really be like dealing with global events. There's like a cult around the AI. We get to see like what's happening with all these nations. It is so bizarre and new for the series that I found it really engaging. And interesting, like even before the opening title sequence, which is usually like the most fun moments in the series like, let's see, in Fallout, it's like right after they rip off, like Wolf Blitzer rips off his mask and it's Benji. And then we get the, it's usually some like exciting fun moment. Right before the opening title sequence in this movie, Ethan off screen brutally murders a bunch of people. We don't see it.

We just see Grace's reaction. And it's played as kind of like a dark joke of like how far he'll go and defending his friends. But it comes across is kind of like weird. Like we don't usually get this type of suggestion of violence in these movies, especially from Ethan, that he's capable of like brutal, brutal murder. Like, and then we go into like it's a tonally weird. And I feel like it's trying to reckon with lots of like darker, weird or shit. I don't know. Do you feel, am I way off track here or do I sound like I'm making any sense?

No, I hear what you're saying, but I guess this movie exists in some form of dead reckoning and the final reckoning kind of being combined, maybe, was smashed into one narrative. Like, maybe that to me would be like my dream, mission impossible to follow up fallout where if you're getting that bike bridge scene, like by the, in that first act and by the third act, if it was more the plain stuff, like, I don't know. I did feel like the, I like the crux of having, like, AI as the villain and the way, the paranoia, as you said, in, um, uh, Dead Reckoning,

there was that really good chase scene in the airport where the AI was kind of, like, messing with them and sending them in the wrong direction and duplicating voices and stuff. And I thought, that was kind of cool. And it was, the whole AI angle seemed to kind of feed into the paranoia almost more in Dead Reckoning part one.

Um, because just by the nature of like, it's lots of scenes. of people in government positions. Like you were saying you enjoyed those like Angela Bassett, um, Swanson like scenes. Uh, I, I guess I can in theory,

but for me when I was cutting to those, it wasn't really increasing the tension. It was more like, this A, B stuff we're cutting from. It's like one of this is like really heightened and tense to me. And kind of what I want to be seeing, these set pieces and the way they delivered. That's like,

the main reason I'm there, the bureaucracy and the, I don't know, were they all kind of as kind of military porny as this? I don't remember having quite that much of, because, you know, he's on the aircraft carrier and all of this like military focus. I don't remember being as much of like a, almost like a top gun level type of thing that it turns into at certain points like the whole I guess this is part of that just scale getting bigger across this franchise too as you said it's like the the global like military the AI is threatening all the the world's nukes and that's I guess where they're trying to get this overall tension from is consistently cutting back to this countdown timer the DevCon like timer getting more and

extreme but as I say it kind of it felt more like they were verbally reminding me again and again, but I wasn't really feeling that tension. I wasn't escalating to me in comparison to something like a fallout where I feel like, oh man, like they're really up against this. And by the time we're building up to these action scenes of him desperately running around, I'm like feeling it and I'm feeling that tension of him like, man, this feels like he's not actually going to achieve this. And I guess that's kind of the ultimate goal of these, even though you know that there's no way

they would ever end on with Tom Cruise losing. Yeah. The mission's almost impossible. But I wasn't really feeling that until that plane seemed, I was like, this is what I'm looking for from these movies. This is actually incredible. And unlike Dead Reckoning Part 1 where I feel like the advertising leaned so heavily on the bike cliff scene, which is a cool stunt.

But it didn't feel as though there was that much after that that's like as cool as that shot in and of itself, whereas the, the best. stuff in Final Reckoning like you don't see in the marketing which I think is cool. Oh yeah. So when that hit it was like, whoa, this is like actually crazy. So yeah, quite messy mixed feelings I feel like but it mostly just comes back to that pacing thing. I just feel like two hours 49 is man that's asking a lot, especially with it being the marvelly oh now the first half an hour has to just be like catching us up explaining in case you didn't see

Dead Reckoning Part 1 because they can't really get around the way they're inherently linked it can't be just like a fallout where it's like okay we start we got this other character from another movie but it doesn't really matter like it's just go go go go go

um and to me it felt like you're adding so much in this last movie all these new characters coming in trying to loop back to some of the older ones it gave it sort of a goofiness the best ones like a fallout somehow

avoid there's something about the like the tone where it's so delicate for me where I feel like the goofy goofier stuff in a fallout just worked it's like nodding the audience just enough some of that dialogue is like just carrying you along a bit better than the it felt like 90 minutes or something before getting to that submarine scene which was going into this the main sort of hook that I had going that was so I'd only seen Dead Reckoning one time But that was one of the things I remembered is that yeah, they got to go to this like frozen submarine and it's obviously going to be a big big part of the new one And I don't know

Yeah, really mixed opinions on this. I Would kind of like to talk some spoilers if possible some of my critiques go in that direction if Adam doesn't care and if oh my god Please don't spoil it Adam do here. No before before we do spoilers I just do want to mention that. I think when you're talking about like the tonal problems, I agree with you that Fallout has because I think the thing that makes the comedy work and the kind of tongue-in-cheek, like knowing, winking nature of it work is Tom Cruise's performance of going like,

and his character is Ethan Hunt of kind of just being a normal guy having to do this. He's not normal. But he's kind of like in this series, he's ascending to this like godhood level. like Alec Baldwin calling him the manifestation of destiny early on. It's kind of like a joke in those movies. But in this movie, and I guess this is a spoiler that I'll just say this is a spoiler, everyone. The movie ends because they're talking about in this movie of, oh my gosh, the AI needs to be killed. It needs to be destroyed.

No one's responsible. And Grace is kind of like, well, I would trust you with it, Ethan. You know, like you could probably handle it. And the movie ends with him taking this, what, like, giant terabyte, you know, hard drive that glows. And walking away with it, he doesn't destroy it. He's like, that's almost his character arc in this movie. And it's not a joke. It's not tongue in cheek.

It's like, I am God. This is, maybe it's a Scientology thing. I don't know. But it's kind of bizarre that it's like he's the hero. He is the only one in this universe responsible with this responsibility. And I don't really know what that means what they're trying to imply there. It is very strange. Yeah, that's a good point.

It's just the nature of something going with this tone, they're all kind of breezy action movies at the end of the day. And it kind of has to win. And the more times you do that, the more absurd it gets. And you don't really want to go the like fast and furious direction where they're basically looking into the camera saying how stupid it is, like level. So it's like a difficult thing to have stretched for so long. No. Well, that's what I like about it is that it's so earnest. It's so sincere that it isn't like winking at the audience.

Like you get a sense of, it's like almost like childishly naive how sincere it is that I don't know. I just kind of like it. Yeah, I just, I guess I wish that sincerity was matched with simplicity. Maybe that's what it is about fallout that like it just knows when to put the next set piece. I don't feel like it's drag in its feet at any point. Whereas the kind of convoluted exposition, and it was more the repetition of it. If this information was being delivered through, like, set pieces,

or it's combined with, like, an action scene or some way, that's usually, like, a good way of getting around that repetition issue of, like, oh, we're scared of, like, we're saying about all these different goobas that you've got to plug in there and then you've got to go through the five-step plan of after you go into the submarine and then there's this pod that we've got to get from A to B and all this and there's all this stuff so that you can kind of feel the fear that the script is like sweating like to make sure that the audience is like staying in tow with what's happening and I just don't like feeling it as obviously as it does and you mentioned the the inclusion of these like

flashbacks and it's not if flashbacks the movie itself like mere minutes after something has happened in case you've forgotten it but then it will also So flashback to other movies, not just a Reckoning Part 1. Like, you mentioned like rabbits foot. Just random movies. Gone girls. Every one of them. Every movie.

It does Babylon. It just becomes Babylon. And that shows every movie. I'm pretty sure there's like at least there must be a one shot from like every one of these movies. At the start, there's like a big montage for the whole movie. Yeah. Or for the whole series.

Big ass montage. They're trying to make out that this is the one. It's all been like building to this when it's. come on um it just feels like a an insistence at a certain point it doesn't really work for me when i feel like saying it insists upon itself i'm just trying to have you said it on me um it's a real thing just because it became a meme doesn't mean it's not a valid thing and i guess um i guess if we're talking like spoilers i was like i was there kind of like for the at least in concept the buildup to this first action scene in the submarine, which I thought was really cool

when they're inside the submarine. But it was doing something a lot of the other Mission Apostables didn't do for me where it was like stretching the believability to a level where it's like, oh, we're veering, like, stupid, like, in a way that's, like, not fun, stupid for me. Oh, you didn't like the submarine. I liked parts of it because it's such a long sequence. And there are some really good moments of tension, especially when he's inside it. But when it comes to like him having to shed off the specially made suit, the like plot armor suit that they spend all this time like establishing as like, this is the only way you can survive that deep right in that cold.

And it's just like, nope, I'm God. And just like takes it off and survives or whatever. As long as you get into that pod. But he like, he has a resurrection scene, you know, like there's a long resurrection scene of him like literally dying and then being reborn. And, you know, it's like, um, so if he is the, I guess he is Jesus. Tom Cruise is. That's the movie is literally, he's saying it's, that's what the movie is. It's like, you're Jesus. You are responsible with the AI and the world is better because we don't have smartphones now.

But I mean, I think for me, the submarine sequence works so well because the whole first hour is exposition, building up tension, setting up the stakes, over explaining everything. Even on the submarine, they're like the submarine before the sunken submarine, they're like, this is what you have to do. You got to put on this suit. And then they re-explain that again. You got to sink down to here. And you got to do this and hit this mark and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then the second he goes out into the water and you see the brush and submarine following them, it's just one, it's like 20 minutes, just a silent sequence. Barely any music, it is so unique for the franchise.

That's why I love, that's why I have to love this movie because it is doing stuff different. And I feel like so many movies at this point in a franchise, you know, this is the eighth movie in the franchise are just like, all right, we know what we're doing. Let's just do that and not mess things up too much. This movie's like, what, let's do this entire 20 minute sub action scene. That's like James Cameron with, you know, Buster Keaton or whatever. It's so ludicrous and builds and builds, but it's just silent. And I felt so much dread and anxiety, which is different. That's a different feeling for most action set pieces in Mission Impossible movies.

You usually have Benji on the phone being like, Ethan, you're going, why are you doing this? You gotta put this in this thing. And it's like there's a sense of humor and relief. There's no relief at all in that submarine sequence or even after. It's just like intense dread. No, yeah. Very oppressive. It's, it's so different.

That's my favorite sequence in the whole movie, even more than the plane sequence because I feel like the plane sequence as good as the plane sequence is, it's basically, it's basically, basically fallout, the end of fallout, except planes. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. I don't know. I think a lot of my issues are just going to loop background to the pace of it.

Yeah. Because I guess just by, am I being like unfair that it was like 90 minutes? It felt like a long ass time. There were spring things of action. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because in the build up to the submarine, there's that fight scene where there's the undercover person

on Tom Cruise's submarine and it's coming between the A and B fight on the Trab Mill. That, they're the Palm, Clementif, they got to go get her and build the team and then Luther dies. So there's lots of stuff that happens, but it is like super fast. Yeah, that treadmill fight seems really good. It's weird because it's a lot of stuff happening very fast, but it makes it feel like nothing happens because it is so fast. Yeah.

So maybe that's what it is for me. It's like just the quantity of information you'll get, just how. hurts the the tension edge of your seat stuff for me despite you do you do get it at some points like outside of where like the it concludes that submarine sequence i do really like uh the majority of it um as you say the how different it is as far as like the presentation it's not about like the drum rhythms and everything like that is weirdly quiet and horrifying in a different way but man um yeah i guess going back to the member berry stuff the uh the dude from the first movie um like being uh reincorporated um i i don't really get that

yeah the gulp shito character does it gluck shill he's literally the shitto he shitted all that that's he shitted his pants in the first movie that's what he's known for it like so yeah i don't really get what they were trying to make it feel intentional and i guess cohesive as a shows despite um bogging it down by feeling they need to do that because i didn't really add that much to the movie because as you get like the the family friendship aspect is like the the fun part to me like the group just doing missions and like him and his wife like coming in i just like what huh this this doesn't seem to like really match what's been going on i i felt that way at first in the movie like when he first showed up and everything i'm like what is the likelihood that he's here

know, in this moment from the first movie, like, why are we doing this? You know, he's known for shitting his pants. You know, like, because I was thinking, like, of course, Ethan's going to show up and there's going to be a big joke of him being like, uh, you lost me my job and ruined my life. But the, I was so surprised. And I got to say, the reason why I came around to this character as inclusion is because they make him like an integral, integral part of the story, the team, him and his wife. And it also is like thematically very kind of like crucial to the story because he has that moment with Ethan where he's like, you know, it's a matter of perspective.

You know, you didn't ruin my. If that hadn't happened, if you hadn't done those things and broken into the Virginia, you know, center or whatever in the first movie, I wouldn't have met my wife. I wouldn't have done these things. And it covers two things. Basically, first, it's saying like, yeah, this message about perspective. We are the sum of our choices and blah, blah. blah, blah. That's like the whole message of the movie. And it basically tells Ethan, you've done nothing wrong, sir. You are actually, everything you've ever done actually has leading to good things.

Because you're God. Yeah. You let, you know, like, again, I don't know why they're doing that with this character. But that is like his clear character arc in this movie. It's bizarre. It's weird. And I love the movie for it. I, like, I agree with you. This is not, it's not a good. Mission Impossible movie. It's one of the flawed Mission Impossible movies similar to like two and three. You know, it has glaring weird inconsistencies, but I think it is a good movie. I think it's a bad Mission Impossible movie, but a good movie. I don't know if that makes sense. I think it's definitely better than two and three for sure. And the highs are particularly high. Oh, yeah, I think so. I think, do you think it's better or worse than Dead Reckoning? This is what I mean.

I mean, I don't think that that maybe ever reaches an action scene as good as the plane stuff from the end of this one. But I think it's just kind of more consistent throughout the way it's put together. I wish, I agree with you. I wish there was an edit put together. I hope one day they did that and just like smash them together because that would be like. Someone's got to be on it. Someone's going to do it. Yeah.

Yeah, someone's got it. I'm sure someone's already done. How did you feel about the placement of, because I wasn't sure if they were, how. much of the this is the final one ever like stuff they were and how much they were going to lean into that they were going to do but early on in the movie they'd thing brains I guess short got the short straw um he gets like exploded uh did that work to you on like an emotional character level because I was kind of like bummed that he's one of my favorite parts of this franchise throughout um so I like

the idea of like he's the little dealy he made that reads off his uh voice note at the the end. It's quite a nice way of book ending it. Yeah. I would have preferred that character probably to stick around outside of, there were like three or four characters in the main group by the end where I was struggling to even remember who they were. And I guess they were in like Dead Reckoning Part 1 who joined the team. And there's like this whole B plot with John Voight's character's son. Yeah. It's like in this as well. Shea Wiggum is actually that guy's son. Yeah. I mean That was one thing. That could have been fleshed out way more.

I mean, that's, that's, you can tell because of the way they make these movies, it's stupid. Like, they don't have a finished script and they're kind of like building it out from these set pieces and like shooting so much shit to try to figure out, okay, where do we want the story to go? What's going to work where? I think that in, in certain cases that can really hurt it. And I think this movie suffers the most because of that and because of the shooting complex. with COVID and everything. But I think that those things just don't bother me as much. It's because I am a fan.

I am biased with these movies. And I do think that the positives of the unique stuff that they put in this movie outweigh those like little fan servicey moments. But they are there. And they are, you know, depends on. I feel like Adam would fucking hate this movie. I think that he would. loathe it because it is technically on like on so many levels breaking a lot of rules and just like

I don't know I feel like I really wish he'd I feel like it'd be an interesting conversation if he had watched just this one I'm sorry seeing the the last one I've been busy no no that's fine I just I think it would be a funny contrast yeah because yeah I mean it is building up and there's a lot of nostalgia like see in there with the previous movies, but I don't know. I just, it worked for me. I don't know, Alex, do you feel like the movie is saying this is the end? Or, you know, it felt very like, the ending of the movie felt like, okay, we're going to shoot multiple versions of this. Yeah. And figure out what the audience likes most. And because there's a moment where Tom Cruise

falls out of the plane, then his parachute burns up. And it's like, is he going to die and I'm sure that was one version of the movie that they wrote and then no actually there's a well hold on no first the bad guy tells him I have the last parachute good luck um but I guess he finds another parachute which I thought was poorly communicated in the movie because I'm like he just said there was he had the last yeah he just said he has the last parachute but I guess he didn't and then his parachute burns up and then he ends up living and then Shea Wiggum pulls a gun on him and you think, oh, maybe he's going to kill him as revenge for his dad, but then they shake hands. So there, it has a, you feel the anxiety of like, okay, where are we going with this?

What does the audience want? And I don't like that tendency, especially at the end of the movie of like, guys, are you, do you like us? Is this what you guys want, you know, like just pick a, pick something, you know? Yeah, I thought they were going to do sort of a, a dark night rises type thing. we're like sacrificing himself to save the city or the world or whatever because he's Batman

he's a superhero now he's alive we'll talk him in our back pocket for later yeah so it was more like oh are they gonna are they gonna show him like hitting the ground

and exploding into goo because if you don't see it then he will be back or at least they're saving his most intense stunt Tom Cruise just dying on screen that would be

okay Five stars. That would be the ultimate. I think everyone would see that one if he's just like, this is my final movie because I'm going to die. Like out of respect for Tom. Yeah, he died on this movie, but out of respect for Tom Cruise, we're going to show the full sequence in IMAX of his body exploding on the pavement. Like, it wasn't an accident at all. Like, it was in the contract that everyone agreed, like, this is just how we end. Like, this has always been the plan. Watch Tom Cruise die. Yeah. So, yeah. But I guess like where the main. member berry stuff was more irritating to me was when they would introduce a new character who like just steals the show like the trammel tillman guy in the submarine yeah just like every like he just

gets it like sometimes just an actor will gel with a franchise whatever and just be a uh you you can you can the way you're reading these lines like you clearly know the tone of what you're supposed to be in this is funny this is charming i want to see more from this character um but just with the nature of how packed it is you don't get that much of him. Yeah. And that point in the story, too, it's like he, throughout the whole first hour, everyone's telling him,

no, you can't do this, you can't do this. You can't have an aircraft carrier, Ethan. And then finally, this one guy is just like, you want to poke the bear? You came to the right man. You know, like that's,

and he has the perfect delivery. Yeah, it's just a perfect moment. So yeah. Yeah, I think I'm ready for ratings. I know this is anything else that's popping out to you. I enjoyed my time with it, I guess. I'm also simultaneously sort of like, if not for that plane scene, I would say wait and see this at home.

But then that plane scene changed everything for me. I was like, man. I saw this in IMAX and I feel like I got my money's worth from that one scene alone, a lot of the other good action scenes and action moments in there. It's just they need to trim this stuff up if they're going to make another one. Because I do really feel like there's probably an amazing, like almost. perfect action movie within two and a half hours of these last two movies combined, but that's,

it's like nearly six hours of Mission Impossible. I just don't, I don't think that's what they're best at. They need to be moving as quickly as possible. And it just gets a little bit bogged down for me. So I would give it a strong three star with a like. Nice. Yeah.

Very nice. I give it four, four stars. Yeah, I mean, it's just, I like it. It's good. It's fun. Good action. Tom Cruise almost dies. Yeah.

I would agree with you that I think they need to go in a different direction if they're going to go with the series. I think as much as I have light Christopher McQuarrie doing these movies and they're teaming up on these, it'd be fun to see another director like someone like Bradbird or or even John Wu, you know, just the different styles come in to make something. Yeah, extreme shift would be good. Yeah. Sorry, my dogs are going nuts.

I'm giving it a 10 star, so 20 out of 10. Nice. Your favorite one, yeah. We'll take it. Nice one, Tom. Thank you. Are they considering doing more? Like, what the title's the final reckoning?

What do you mean? Do you trust them? Do you believe them? You know, if it makes enough money. I think Tom's like. getting old though I think I don't know if he wants to do a crepe type thing where he's like you know in the training position and he's like training uh I don't know new blood I'm very excited to hear if your dog's going crazy picks up on that mic because that'll be the true litmus test

no it will it will and I I've been turning down my volume to try to limit it but it's just Are you adjusting your volume throughout the podcast? Just briefly in that moment, but yeah, it's just... I mean, those parts can be edited out. Don't adjust your volume throughout the podcast. Okay. That was the mailman and my kid is sleeping and, yeah. Anyways.

You've been here. You know how it is. I've been there. Your dogs are crazy. It's a noisy place. Yeah, they are. Happy Together 1997

Pride Month film Aw, we are all happy together. Thanks Adam. We are. Happy together. That's our motto. We are happy together. Sardonically happy. This is a Wong Kar Wai film.

And apparently I tried watching one that he made in 2013 that not a lot of people had very strong feelings about it, but I just forgot about it. So this wasn't my first Wongarwai. I apparently watched the Grandmaster over a decade ago and don't remember anything about it, and I logged it as a five out of ten.

Okay. But he's got a great catalog. Has he done anything since then? No, I guess that's the last one. I thought he was doing a TV show. No? Oh, there is a TV series, actually. 2023, 24.

Yeah. And he's also been producing some stuff. I think he executive produced one for the road by Buzz Punpria Mission Impossible No You didn't work on Mission Impossible No apparently Buzz Punpria is like

He's taken him under his wing We covered bad geniuses On the podcast Oh yeah that was good Which yeah which was I thought it was pretty good But then his follow up after that Buzz Punpria's film after that one for the road,

I thought it was a huge improvement in terms of like cinematography and style. And then I heard Juan Carr Y was like a big reason for that shift. That's what I heard anyway. I'm not going to fact check it, but that's my version of reality. Anyway,

happy together. A gay, gay film. Very gay, yeah. The gayest. One of the gayest films. Very interesting. considering its

Hong Kong film because I don't know the ins and outs on exactly how governmentally what's the word independent Hong Kong is from China like I don't know all the details with that

but you know my understanding with China at the very least is they have a strict no ghost snow gaze policy in their films, right? So it's interesting for this to exist in Hong Kong, where even if it might not be banned in Hong Kong, I'd have to look it at. At the very least, it would seem like a very culturally controversial thing to release.

And there's actually on the Wikipedia page it talks about how there was some censorship in the sense that the producers of the film considered censoring the film, specifically the opening sex scene, for certain audiences, it says. And supposedly posters for the movie featuring the two leads fully clothed with their legs intertwined were banned from public places in Hong Kong

and were moved altogether before the movie's release. So that sounds a little unsurprising for me. But I do find it interesting and not only kind of like bold and brave, but kind of like important, you know, to have media that can exist where, you know, 99.99% of things include straight characters or any majority group population.

But for something to exist where it's like, oh, yeah, these people exist. too here's a story you know I think that that's important and can help bridge gaps and help to you know have people be less scared of things that they might not understand or something interesting movie what do you think yeah this is really intriguing I had a really good time getting through this it was reminding me of some films from the last couple of years that really spoke to me um whether it be recently quater and not just because of the uh luca guirinios uh danio craig

movie and not just because it's a gay main character or whatever but more so just using a location that a main character is not native to um and happy together's case it being most of the films in argentina um and in queer that it's in mexico or uh perfect days um yeah that fin vendors film We're using Tokyo and using like a location to explore the isolation, the claustrophobia, or loneliness and using it as like a backdrop to kind of bring something out of these characters that it might not otherwise. And just the sincerity of it too. It's like I feel like you're going to find something on an, if you can, connect emotionally

with these films. You will find an angle that you will find relatable or true to some extent. And there is something kind of immediately intriguing about this kind of fiery relationship they have going on that's clearly quite unsustainable and toxic in many ways. And you made the joke about the reunion aspect and how they keep saying they want to start over again and again. And the way that carries out throughout the film is interesting. But I guess what really hooked me immediately was the look of the film. I just got some like screenshots of it up now the the lighting the use of color when it chooses to switch from black and white and the timing of that and the thing that was reminding me of perfect days was this kind of narrative device of um in that movie it was framed around

rewinding a tape in a way to like experience the same day again and again to kind of emphasize that uh repetition or starting again type thing whereas here there's this ongoing uh lamp detail and then the use of a a waterfall to kind of symbolize the character's relationship and how tumultuous it is and simultaneously kind of beautiful and imposing to look at but where's it going into this like heart of darkness kind of um there's something bittersweet about it um but this is this is pretty much what i'm looking for for movies awesome what about you jake um um um Oh yeah, I hated it. No, I'm just kidding. Nice.

I was going to say you should change your name to racist carrying racism. Yeah, I'm racist against gay people. Yeah. I will say this. Sorry. I don't mean to keep everyone in suspense. I'm looking up the names of the characters. I am Steve.

Okay. Faye, right? That's what they call them. Faye. Fai. The guy, Tony Lung's character. And the other guy. All right.

Hopo wing. Yes. I'll say this. Not great for each other. You think? Not. No. I was a little distressed.

You know, I thought maybe some toxic behavior. as Alex was alluding to, maybe we shouldn't be showing this to people, you know? Like, I feel like this is going to just encourage bad behavior. No, I think it's self-aware. I don't think it's like showing it. I think we should cancel Longcar, why? You know what I don't like?

I don't like when he was feeding him so much food, and then he gets a cold and he's shivering. and his stupid boyfriend is like, I haven't eaten in two days. Can you go make me food? And then he goes and makes him food. That pissed me off. And this is all to say that I thought it was a great movie

because I was very engrossed and immersed in these characters' lives. And I thought that it really captured the feeling of like the toxic nature of this relationship, the kind of desperation between these characters of like needing each other and hate. Like, it was just extremely well done and very real and just visually breathtaking, you know, like, I don't know, Long CarWai has just an incredible eye for composition and color. And I like how it started out before, like, while they're, well, when they break up, I guess it's like black and white and then it becomes more color when they are back in each other's lives. and it was just mesmerizing for the first three quarters. And then I got kind of, God, it felt like it ran out of steam a little bit. Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah, I thought visually it was great throughout. That's like one of my favorite things about Wong Karwai from what I know and have seen so far. And, you know, it's one of those things where in everything everywhere all at once, there's those different universes that they go through and even without having ever seen in the mood for love like I immediately pulled that I was like oh this is an in the mood for love parody just because the style is so distinct

and the way that he uses like color grading especially like really saturated colors like it's a very visually appealing style and also the framing too there's something particular about the framing when the shots are more stationary, especially. And the editing, too. Part of what I was wondering, like, while I was watching it out, there were certain

moments that I was like, is this cliche? Is this kind of like indie movie, like, cliche? And then I realized like, oh, wait, everyone's just like been copying this guy for years. Like, I feel like it is so fresh, like all the frame rate changes and all this stuff. And, you know, the, like, I feel like indie. Like, I feel like indie movies have been kind of stealing from Wongar Wai for years now, that it does feel like cliche. Yeah, in the same way that like watching diehard feels cliche.

And then you're like, oh, wait, no, everything copied diehard. It like set a standard. And then everyone's like, let's do that. Yeah. There's something so liberating in the camera, the way it moves, the way it's edited to, like, it's not like the way it jumps from scene to scene. And you can only really tell the passing of time by looking at his hands. Like are the bandages off his hands yet?

You know, how much what is, you know, it's just, it's so, like, intuitive and not, like, hitting you over the head with it. The weird changes in, like, narration are so interesting where suddenly it's like, oh, this other guy who's working at the restaurant is narrating all of a sudden. Like, what? What is happening? This is so strange and weird. And it just feels, I don't know how this was written.

I don't know if you guys have looked into this research-wise, but if there was a lot of improvisation, because I know with Chunking Express, there was quite a bit from what I know of, like, coming up with it on the spot. But it had that kind of sense of, like, freedom and another thing. I don't know why, but the cinematography reminded me a lot of Christoph Kislovsky's films,

particularly the double life of Veronique. and the Decalogue films because of maybe the handheld camera, the use of the colors, just the kind of like freewheeling sense of things and easygoing. Like there's a shot in this movie. Like sometimes I would just sit back and look at a shot and be like, if Steven Spielberg was doing this and it was on a dolly and it had, you know, Kaminsky lighting and all this stuff, it'd be very like, it'd be beautiful. Wonderful. I love Spielberg, but it would call attention to itself in a lot more.

And you'd be like, oh, damn, that's a Spielberg-Warner. But in this movie, it's like the handheld shot moving these characters back and forth. And I'm like, we're doing like five different setups in one take in the course of 30 seconds. And you don't even realize it. It's just, it's so easygoing and natural that I feel like it's almost to the movie's detriment that it feels so simple and fluid that it kind of hides all of the really good writing, the good effort and like craft behind the scenes. I don't know. Yeah. No, there's definitely something naturalistic about it.

And what I was reading is that there was like a three hour long, like first cut and a bunch of the way it was put together wasn't through strict like scripting and planning. And a lot of it was like rewritten as it was going. And it definitely kind of feels that way. But I feel like they've managed to kind of polish it into its right, as shiniest form through like editing and really like efficient good editing knowing what to indulge. and what to leave to the imagination too because I thought the pacing was great. I love this like breezy hour and a half runtime for this. I didn't feel it sagging at any point. It was kind of like unpredictable in the way it was going and the angles it was kind of exploring and different threads it was bringing up like the whole fighting over a passport thing like specifically

a British one was quite interesting with it. being like Hong Kong obviously and the year it was set and all the like British implications of that. Yeah, true. Uncomfortable, I guess, for my country. So emphasizing that kind of discomfort or agitation through these characters and those kind of ideas was on my mind. And I'm just making it about like the controlling manipulation of even coming up with the idea

of hiding someone's passport so they can't get away from you and how sort of toxic. Yeah, abusive. Bad of an idea, that is. And yeah, it's just straight up abusive. And contrasting it with these other characters, like the sort of friendship that forms with the fellow from Taiwan, right? Yeah. Yeah. Another place with a lot in common with Hong Kong.

And the kind of the difference and the kind of turns into these three characters, this other chef and the main two. And where will three of their arcs go are quite interesting in the way they contrast to each other, where one just kind of puts his head down and will do what he doesn't want to do and winds up kind of reintegrating in visiting the chef's family. And even though it's like a stressful, overwhelming environment he's in, he kind of seems more at home than the, when he's in Argentina with his boyfriend at the time, who winds up kind of stranded there. So I don't know what it's really saying as far as like what it's condemning or not condemning. Is it saying that like the other character who winds up stuck in Argentina and is more of like a carefree, happy go lucky, loose, like attitude to life, like where that leaves them as a character. Or, I don't know, it's loose enough where you can kind of like put what you want to on it. It's not giving you really conclusive, heady conclusions on the kind of ideas it's

throwing out there. But it's definitely left me thinking. Good. Yeah. I think a lot of great movies do leave you thinking. I'd rather have a movie that sticks in your head rather than one that's just like immediately disposed of after the fact. I thought it was very funny too. It worked really well as a comedy to me.

We mentioned the editing earlier. I think my favorite, like, timed cut was right after he perfectly cracks the egg with one hand. and then tosses the shell at the garbage, but it just like lands perfectly in between the wall and the garbage, just like a massive L. But the cut happens like right after the impact sound of the eggshell. In a way that feels so oddly modern, because that's like, you know,

I don't know if the term is like jump cut or whatever for, you know, like YouTube content or whatever. But like a lot of modern comedic editing is, you know, you find the sound of the, we'll call it a punchline, I guess. And then you cut just like so close after it that it's almost like an unexpected shift, right? And that adds to the comedic nature of it. But that was happening in this film in 1997, despite it feeling like such a much. modern choice, right? Like, it's, it's not unusual for cuts to happen after a punchline in general, but the timing

of it is what felt so particularly, like, kind of ahead of its time in a way. It was so interesting. You're saying Wongar-Wai invented YouTube shorts. He invented YouTube poops. Yes. Wow, legend. Yeah. Man, I owe him my whole career.

But, yeah, that does feel very modern. It's like, it's funny because it's just like, oh, you didn't see that. No way about that. He made it. Move along to the next scene. Immediately. Yeah. It is funny, but it's like heartbreaking how, like, funny some of the moments are.

I mean, like, when he goes out to get cigarettes, like, and he's getting more, his more independence, you know, because of he had his injuries and stuff. And you'd think his boyfriend would be like, oh, this is good. I don't have to fucking take care of you all day. But the second he starts to gain that independence, he's jealous again. Because it's like, where have you been? You went and he's just, I just bought cigarettes. And then he buys him like a billion cigarettes. 50 cartons of cigarettes.

And he just throws them everywhere. It's so sad. But it's, uh, it is like funny and how like pathetic love is, you know? It can just be so humiliating how, you know, when you love someone or whatever. Like you just, you do. things that are really stupid sometimes and embarrassing. There's no pride there anymore. It's two characters that do not have like a lot of emotional intelligence or maturity

when it comes to relationships. Like navigating relationships in this year 2025, I'm glad that I'm doing it within like communities that are all like hyper aware and hyper focused of like, consent and those ideas, like not just even like sexual consent, but like, you know, like a speed of relationship or like communication, right? That is so fucking important. But it seems like, unfortunately, the norm for people throughout history and even continuing today, the norm for most people is just to play these weird little fucking games where, you know, you're supposed to interpret something that's not spoken or like you should have known something or you're just

waiting for one of your discomforts to be crossed in some way for you to get angry sort of thing like no communicate and say these things beforehand you know there's no stupid question what the fuck are you doing trying to get in a relationship if you have communication issues right be a little introspective this is why i think the zoomers shouldn't be watching this movie you know it's gonna be yeah they shouldn't I mean, because it's like, oh my God. Oh, because they'll learn from it. Okay, yeah, yeah. No, well, they're going to say, oh, my God, you're glamorizing this relationship?

Zoomers are like adults now also. Like, what are you talking about? What's the youngest Zoomer? Oh, I'm a Zoomer, technically. Also, they hate sex scenes, so they went watch. Yeah, like Zoomers are adults. You have a kid. Yeah.

We're on Generation Alpha or something, right? Are we on Generation Beta? Yeah, but, but, but Adam, you got to get clicks. You know, you got to make fun of the Zoomers, and we've got to get clicks. We've got to put, like, zoomers. Zoomers would hate this movie on the on the thumbnail. Yeah. They got the zoomies.

But I agree with you know, I feels very, it's just a very open, raw kind of like depiction of a relationship that I don't, I don't know. Are there movies showing it this like this now? Not a lot. Coming out. I mean, you guys watch way more independent, you know, movies. But like this, like there's, they're hitting each other. They're so violent.

It's just really brutal. and ugly, but also depicting like the love there. Like, it's not, it's not a didactic like, this is an abusive relationship movie. It's just like this is about like that, yeah, it's not binary. They're, the specific,

it's very specific. I don't know. But it's also very real. Yeah, yeah. It just doesn't feel like they're making him like this anymore. Mm-hmm. Yeah, they're like flawed people. Yeah. I don't know if I would say like any more as if this is like, was even a common thing within 1997, I think this is just like a fairly unique film covering, you know, a real type of

relationship that obviously exists in real life, but just like is something that you'd have to handle so delicately to, if you're going to approach making a film on this, like, you need to, you need to do it with some care. And I think that that's probably why most people don't touch this sort of thing. And when they do, it's like, you know, the, the, narrative would be like, oh, this is explicitly a bad relationship and that's the point that we're trying to make sort of thing. When in this film it feels more like, oh, these are just flawed people and, you know, they're kind of a fucking mess, but you still kind of feel for them and you understand why they're so emotional and irrational, right? Like you feel, you still feel it even if, you know, it's not a healthy way of navigating a relationship that any of us would do sort of thing. Yeah, at its heart is just like a really strong character drama.

It doesn't let itself get reduced into anything else, anything more frivolous. And through a lot of just like really inventive, creative presentation and just like, snappy clever choices just like ending on that ironic usage of happy together by the turtles just stuff like that yeah i was waiting for them to do it's a sweet kind of fucked up moment yeah yeah um that also reminded me of uh perfect days too i'm always jerking off that movie but they do a similar thing like it named after a song and using the song and for some kind of emotional effect in there um and one of the editing moments with that the the timing of the cuts i love when uh one of them gets back and they've made the their claustrophobic apartment they have got a

single bed and a sofa and they've like slid them together um and the cut where the character like rips them apart and slams it back against the wall is so like matter of fact and like oh yeah you didn't need to linger on that um and just through the power of a cut you've like just pick up so much complexity and uh just feed into the dynamics of all the character's all about there's so much personality in that apartment too it's just like the way of It's filmed through the time period, the seasons, the textures. It is like its own world. It's just this tiny little apartment.

Like most of the movie just takes place in there. And it's amazing how he can keep finding ways to make it visually, like, brilliant and exciting to look at. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Also, I really, I found it really interesting, those selective, lingered frames that were in the film as well.

I'm assuming that's in both versions because there's technically there's like a director's cut and a theatrical cut and I watched the criterion one and I'm not sure which one that was but I assume it's in both versions I wanted to talk about that

yeah yeah it's a very simultaneously subtle but also incredibly noticeable just editing choice that kind of like highlights key moments and makes them stand out in a way where you as the viewer can be like,

okay, they're choosing to make this moment stand out and then think about and reflect on why that's the case, you know? I like that. It's an interesting way of using the medium of film to say something extra that you wouldn't really be capable of doing outside of the medium of film or you'd have to do in a different way, at least. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I just like him using like all the different tools.

I mean, a lot of stuff is sped up and slowed down in frame rates, black and white. Like, I think the reason why so many don't, like filmmakers now don't do that because it's looked at down upon as like a film school techniques, just like cheap. You know, you like get through this, that kind of like stylistic exploration in film school. And then you, you know, you establish a style or something. But, you know, I like seeing a filmmaker be really shameless and just throw it all out there and try to communicate with all the tools that they have, you know, as a filmmaker. I did want to share this. I looked up, I don't know if you guys looked this up either, but about the differences between the two versions because I was confused. Because there's only like a few seconds difference.

So apparently the new version is due to the Wongar Y box set. And that box set has gotten some controversy because the director made some changes, like in terms of the color grading and sound mixing on these movies. But there's a director's note for all the different movies in the box set of the changes that he made, and he tries to explain it. So for Happy Together, this is what they say on the criterion website. During a fire accident in 2019, we lost some of the original negative of Happy Together. So the negative.

In the ensuing months, we tried to restore the negative as much as we could. but portion of it had been permanently damaged. We lost not only some of the picture, but also the sound in those reels. As a result, I had to shorten some of Tony Lung's monologues, but with the amazing work of La Majen Richo Vada, we managed to restore most of the scenes to better quality. So it sounds like the new version has a little bit, very small amount missing from the original.

Yeah, I read that. Which is unfortunate. Yeah. There you go. Well, maybe in the future there will be different tools to restore or upscale or something in a way that doesn't... AI. I mean, maybe. I wasn't going to say it, but maybe, yeah.

Yeah. Was there anything, this has all been pretty unanimously positive. The only thing that stood out to me were a couple instances of some kind of clunky old sound design. I don't know if that was through that stuff being lost or whatever particularly during the bar fight What about it It just seemed to be unintentionally kind of funny the way that the sound was put together It just seemed like what am I? Are we missing like a couple of layers or something right now?

I feel like this is really stark in a way that doesn't seem intentional Have you considered that your ears are bad? Hmm Yeah, I might have to go back to the drawing bowl in this one, yeah. Yeah, I don't remember any sound design sticking out is like a negative too much. There was one of the bar scenes. I felt as though the mixing wasn't as great as the other ones, but the bar was already

so high compared to, because I've talked about this before. I have like a pet peeve with the way that both have. actors are filmed in the way that they project their voices in what are supposed to be loud environments in the context of the film matches with what is later brought in post. So like a song playing in the background that you're supposed to believe is taking place in a bar. A lot, the overwhelming majority of films do not consider that. And I was pleasantly surprised that in this film, like in most of the scenes like in the bar, it's like, oh, wow, the actors are actually projecting their voices enough that it feels like they're a part of a loud environment and not doing like this whisper thing. And then, you know, the song playing in the background

itself and the atmospheric sounds of the bar, it feels like really real. So I don't remember there being any like egregiously bad sound design parts, but maybe it was just a part where I wasn't paying as much attention or something. So I don't know. Yeah, I would call that a nitpick too like out of all of my notes that was the only really thing that stood out to me um that took me out of the movie um i was seeing some complaints about like the formlessness of a of the plot or narrative but to me that was more of like a a strength of um the way it's put together was on the border of like a dreamlike kind of of atmosphere um yeah it's moody found the, yeah, the central relationship was a hook enough in and of itself to me just to

watch, oh, where's this going? What are they going to do to each other? How are they going to get out of this circumstance? So there was plenty going on for me, especially with how it just wouldn't linger. Like, it just moved so quick. I felt like it was quite efficient as far as that stuff. Yeah, I guess my biggest complaint might actually, this might just be an issue with me. I haven't been sleeping properly at all and I'm going to be trying a different ADHD medication in a couple days but I did find at some points during the film I was like checking the wiki plot summary just to get myself up on like okay why are they here again sort of thing like it might have been just a me issue in terms of it like being a little confusing at points but yeah that was

my biggest issue it could have been just me. I thought that you know when Alex when he said that the story was kind of constructed as they made it you know there was a three hour cut kind of like how they make mission impossible

I found that you could kind of tell in certain moments like scenes that felt a little repetitive or aimless especially in the second half of the movie where it felt very true to how these types of things can go happen with relationships, whatever, people just kind of fall apart and nothing really,

there's no real resolution or things build up and nothing happens. That is inherently unsatisfying. But as a viewer, we're kind of primed to be like, okay, where's our third act? Where's our conclusion? So I don't know if that's a me problem of being like, I need this movie to be like a movie when it's like the movie is saying, no, this is a different type of movie. So honestly, this is one of those things. story-wise where I was kind of like going in and out of like all right what what's

happening I'm getting a little bored near the end but I feel like even just talking about it now I'm already my estimation of it is like just getting higher and higher and I want to rewatch it because I do feel like with that those expectations in mind sometimes that's all it takes is just having the right expectations going in and going okay now I know what to expect and I can appreciate what it is doing so yeah I feel like that's more of a me thing Yeah, yeah, there's many films where I can tell right away like, okay, when I watch this a second time, I'm going to enjoy it even more because I know what it's going for by the end of my first watch. But yeah, I agree that like, you know, if if the goal of the film is to have you empathize and feel what the characters are feeling, like one of the most frustratingly painful things to experience when you're dealing with navigating relationships is a,

lack of conclusion and a lack of closure and, you know, like, that's, that's inherently just like one of the most shitty fucking things, right? So I feel like it, I feel like it works for this movie to have that sense of like unsatisfaction felt through the audience because that's what the character is feeling. Yeah. Yeah, that's important. It seems like the whole point to me. Um, I guess what the whole film is saying in the end. Um, and then scenes like the, uh, it felt like a good sort of emotional crescendo with the hiding his face behind the recording device like moment and the performance that was going on there and it reincorporating later with, um, and listening to that recording device. And so you can't really hear anything on it, but it just kind of sounds like someone screaming out in despair like kind of in the background and just how sort of,

like just sad and lonely a lot of the people in this film are and they really like the the environments and everything the pace of it all reinforces that idea to me especially the idea of this this lighthouse where they leave their sadness behind and the despite the kind of bittersweet nature of it there is like this glimmering hope just dangling in the not for the character directly them but there is some some more hope for the future and out of this like dire repastive situation, situation ship they're kind of in. I'm just glad we got some representation of the most real common gay relationship, and that is one with fist fights.

It's a normal thing, you know. Yeah, you know, we did the gay movie and now we're never going to watch another one. Yeah, we've had enough. Hmm. Get the one. Yeah. End of Pride month. Are there any more?

I mean, who knows? We're ending it early. As requested by the president. I'm very glad. This was nice after the really shitty, you know, last few weeks of Human Centipede with Fantastic Four. I mean. Quite a tone shift. Why do you choose all of them then?

Ah, ha, ha, ha, ha. You did that. So thank you. Thank you, Adam, for breaking the, what is it called? The spite era. The cycle of violence. I feel like we can. Cycle of spite, yeah.

Yeah, you know, someone has to end it. I wasn't going to end it because I'm new to the podcast and I feel like I have to like escalate to fit in. Even though you were just doing self-inflicted damage, you were still going to keep going. Nah, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I'm going to, you know what, I'm going to recommend an even gayer movie now. Oh, please. Fuck it. I think it's your turn.

Wait, whose turn is it to pick? I totally forgot. I think I looked this up before. Is Jake. Because Alex, yeah, it's your turn because Alex recommended B movie. It's my turn? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's going to be a little turn. Oh, fuck. I didn't even think about this. Well, there's gay movies. Okay, I'm just going to look up the gayest movie. Okay, I'm looking up the gay movies right now. Gays movie. Well, you got time.

Anyway, wow, there's a lot more than I thought. I can give you some suggestions if you want. No. There's ones I haven't seen is what I mean. Okay. I was going to give this a high seven before, thinking I would bump it up to an eight on my second watch, but I think this conversation has bumped it up to an eight in of itself.

So yeah, eight out of ten, happy together. A great gate movie by One Carwai. I'm excited to check out more of their stuff. yeah same um i would give this the same school four star with a damn like a damn yeah this is what i'm looking for i love that i love that shot of cleaning the slaughterhouse floor i love the simplicity of it just these visual metaphors abound um i

there's a lot of intention um an expertise on show here um love that pace would i would yeah pretty much watch this whenever i would happily rewatch this and And I feel like there's so much more to pick out and unpacked too. I gave it three and a half, but fuck it. I'm moving up to four. Oh, nice. Baby.

Yeah, I don't even care. Nice. Four with a like. Damn. Yeah, good stuff. This one car Y, who knew, you know. I want to watch some more. I think I'm going to watch Fallen Angels next.

I heard that one's great. A lot of people talk about. about it very positively. Mm-hmm. Well, good. I'm glad. We got some movie news. Oh, what's happened?

Fill us in. That I do tell. Thought it was interesting. So, recently, Megalopolis has disappeared from streaming platforms. So it used to be on, like, Amazon Prime and all this stuff. If you go to the page, it'll say, uh, has been removed for, like, rights issues or something. Let me just double-check the verbiage, the phrasing here.

Yeah, this title is unavailable due to expired rights. So people were asking about it. And that's crazy. Francis the copster was interviewed for GQ magazine and asked, what's going on with the DVD for Megalopolis? You can't get it in the States. You can't stream it anymore.

And Mr. Cope said, Because the film is still being shown in theaters. I don't want anyone to own it. After the election, people are selling out screenings of Megalopolis, the way it was intended to be seen. Being that it was so prophetic and prescient to say America is like Rome, it's going to maybe lose its republic. Now people are rushing to see it in theaters.

We sold out three screenings in Boston recently in Detroit, and people are really lining up. It's just like what happened with Apocalypse Now. Apocalypse Now was a big flop. It got terrible reviews. Everyone said it was the worst movie ever made. And yet people never stopped going to see it. The same thing is now happening with Megalopolis. So he said that recently, and I decided to fact-check this.

the official megalopolis. Dot movie slash tickets will tell you where upcoming screenings are. I searched Boston, Detroit. I searched Los Angeles. I searched New York. There are no upcoming screening. I like how he said.

People are still seeing it. And then in the quote, he says, we sold out three screenings in Boston recently. Like, okay. I don't know the theater size, but seems like that's died down since you did this interview a month ago and now you can't watch it anywhere. Okay.

All right, buddy. What's going on? Can I tell you my theory? Yeah, please. Francis Ford Coppola is famously not great at leaving a movie alone. How many? There's like five different versions of Apocalypse now. Oh, my God.

I'm betting anything. He's creating some new alternate version. of megalopolis or something that's what I think oh probably oh I can't wait for him to release the winnigade cut the real cut oh wait he already did yeah man I mean maybe I'd be like uh on this level of cope if I'd lost a hundred million bucks on my uh weird vanity movie my incomprehensible vanity project yeah people are still seeing it it's doing great in theaters right now. Someone responded, one of the top comments,

because this was being discussed on Reddit, someone said, it's on American Airlines somehow. It's the only way to go see it. So if you want to watch Megalopolis legally, you got to book a flight. The way it was meant to be seen. Yeah.

I just thought that was funny. I mean, I just want to I want to put this out there, Mr. Coppola. I am your loyal servant. I will, I'll be the guy who asks Adam Driver questions in the theater if you need me to. And if that means going on American Airlines, flight, whatever, and standing next to some dude and asking the screen questions, I will do it. Yes. I'm there.

The way it was meant to be seen, true. Can I say something real quick before I forget? Yeah. I just realized. So many people have been recommending me Fantastic Four Comics since the last one because I did pose that question. It's been a little too much because now I'm like there's so many recommendations for everything. But I am getting a little collection of Hickman. Everyone's saying Hickman.

Hickman. What is that? So I'm doing the Hickman. The Hickman. Fantastic Four Run. Is it a writer? That is the writer, I believe, of a... run of Fantastic War comics. So I'm going to go with him. Thank you everyone. That is enough now.

Please stop. All right. We can do questions. Yeah, you don't want to poke the comic book fan bear. Oh, no, no. Actually, it was very nice. I'm glad everyone reached it. That was very cool because I am interested in that. But I do want to say another thing. Gosh, the editing editing trailer came out. Do you guys have, any strong opinions on Eddington. Yeah, I did watch that trailer. Yeah, I was going to react to it at some point this week. Like, it literally just came out like what?

Okay. Less than a day ago, like within some amount of hours. So I haven't seen it yet. Several hours ago. Yeah. Yeah, it was only had it about this recording. Literally today. Okay.

I need to get offline. Yeah, maybe. Yes, I know. Also, like, wait, so you, you, the fact that you, the fact that you pose this as a question means that there's probably something particular about the trailer, is there? Or is this just new Ariester movie you're curious, right? No, I'm just curious how you guys feel about Ariester. Oh, in general. It's being like a bit of divisive, right?

Yeah, I like hereditary a lot. Did not like Mr. Wolf within the movie, but the rest of the movie I love. Mid-summer, I thought it was fantastic. I think it's his best, Specifically the director's cut. I thought that that fixed a lot of issues and made it more clear what the film was trying to be. And then I only saw Bo as Afraid once. I'd be willing to see it again, but that to me was like, oh, it's good, but too long and I have some issues with it. And that was like his first not great movie for me. And now this next one, Eddington, it's getting very divisive reviews.

It's a con. It seems like a lot of people like actually fucking hate it. So I'm kind of excited to see whatever this is. It's two and a half hours long, so that's probably part of it. We'll see.

Yeah, I'll see it. See, it's three for three for me. I absolutely love Bois Afraid. I rewatched it. It really works for me. I love Bois Freight too, yes. Yeah, maybe some of the best on-screen anxiety.

ever seen. That's what I'm going. Like yeah, this is like exactly how it feels that's crazy. I will he's depicted that and I am like very curious with eddington like how the setting is 2020 like what angle he's going to take through setting a thing obviously an extremely divisive time like how how he's going to avoid the potential pitfalls. Maybe you could imagine that's I think it could bring. But cool cost, he hasn't let me down yet. I'm looking for something crazy. I think it's interesting that A24 is just continuing to give him Cartet Blanche, um, considering the, you know, the beau wasn't a financial success from what I understand. But yeah, I mean, I guess he did very much help build their brand. He kind of put them on the

map. Yeah, hereditary and midsummer, my baby. Yeah, I guess they just owe him forever. they're indebted. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm just happy. I think it's cool that he's just doing it. Like, I feel like it takes some guts. And I think he, part of what I like about him is that he's willing to get called all sorts of dumb shit and, you know, step into the goo, into the discourse in such a

blatant way. That's just like, oh, he's a goo boy. Goose school. Yeah. Yeah, he's a little goober. So I'm happy. I'm like whatever it is, I'm sure it'll be interesting at least. And yeah, I'm all for it.

Yeah, I don't think I'll be regretting watching it. I like to see things that are not normal. It looks like this will satisfy me. Well, it won't be a normie masterpiece. That's what I predict. Same. Yeah, I think that's a safe lock. Yeah, I think we can all lock that one in.

Let's do some other questions then from the solar. community had over to the suggestion thread over on the subreddit. Just like minimum plenty 6-8-9-5 did. You can leave suggestions for future episodes. Adam has often lamented that child characters and horror movies tend to have plot armor. The effect of this trope for Adam's sake usually makes him feel like the horror movie is timid and not scary. I think in the discussion for Evil Dead Rise, Adam called this trope baby-brained and said

horror would be better off if child characters were harmed more often. I would say that. He then went on to say that the reason this trope is so prevalent is because people's brains are chemically altered after they have kids. And now with Jake being our newly minted Sardonic Coast's host, it should also be noticed that he's a baby-brained individual. Hey. Jesus. I am. Jake, does this trope of plot?

I think I was misquoted. But keep that. Watching it in real time. Jake, does this trope of plot armor for child characters and horror also bother you? And along those lines, how does one live their daily life with baby, brain syndrome. BBS. Oh my God.

As one with a baby brain now. They're asking you how you live with yourself as a father. How do I live with myself? Well, my critical comprehension of all media is just fucked now. You know, I'm not able to judge anything ever, you know, because people who have kids are, I have brain damage now. I don't think I call that people who have kids specifically.

just saying, if I remember correctly what I said, it was just society at large. You know, we're predisposed as, you know, creatures, mammals throughout evolutionary history. You know, the majority of us are going to be predisposed to have protect the baby mentality, right? Well, Adam, in the spirit of this podcast community,

I'm going to take your comment with 0% charitability and take huge offense to it. Yeah. No, no, I think I mean, I get, I mean, I don't know. You know what, fuck it. Let's just let the kids get what they get in the movies. Yeah, you know, in, what is it,

assault on pressing 13 carpenter movie, the little girl gets shot. That should be a requirement in every movie, I think. At least one dead girl. I mean, like, here's the thing. It's the same, it's kids and also like dogs or cats, right? Yeah. And human beings, you know, a lot of what we consider to be cute in like animals are childlike characteristics, right?

We've bred dogs from wolves into things that are more like children, like big baby eyes and stuff like that. Like those features are ones where, you know, in the human brain we go, oh, protect. right? And we put them in the like a similar category in our brains. And that's fine in the real world. I don't mind that in the real world. My issue is that that carries over into fiction in films in a way where we're like, okay, sure, if you want to have more empathy and feel worse if a kid dies or if a dog dies or whatever, if you want it, you know, it's not your fault how you feel about that, I just take issue with the lack of balls that films have. Because if you're, if you're doing a horror movie, what do you mean you want to make it so that everyone feels okay?

What I want in a horror movie is to feel a sense of loss, is to feel uncomfortable, is to feel scared. How the fuck am I supposed to feel that if you're not willing to commit to it? And it can happen, you know, children is the most obvious answer, but this happens to adult characters as well, where every single fucking horror movie, especially slasters, like 99% of these things, they'll intentionally write characters to be the most annoying pieces of shit in the fucking world so that you don't relate to them and you don't feel bad when they die. When it's still masquerading as what is supposed to be a horror movie, and yet it's instilling emotions of like, oh, thank fucking God this character is dead,

or, oh, please just kill them. That's not scary. You don't feel a sense of loss. You don't feel a sense of tension. You don't feel anything other than just like, oh, gore happened, cool, right? How the fuck is anybody scared about that when you want the characters to die? That's why I enjoyed the new Hellraiser so much is because it was one of those exceptions. And sure, a lot of people didn't like it.

But I actually empathized with and related to these characters. And when characters died, I felt a sense of loss. And I was like, please don't kill them. You know, like I rarely ever get to feel something like that. And I just feel like it's it's just so fucking bullshity and dishonest and manipulative. And you can see the biggest example is just children in horror movies. That's why it pisses me off. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm pretty much there with you as far as it says more about how like the writing is lazy than anything. If you're using dogs or children or whatever as a shortcut to sympathy, but also at the same time trying to establish a world. nowhere is safe and there's whatever many examples you want to whip out it kind of clashes against itself there and that does bother me too but yeah

are you man in the words of Michael Jordan fuck them kids yeah everyone's got BBS sure baby brain syndrome yeah I'm adding to the cultural lexicon with every single episode

okay we got Normie masteries we got baby brain Like, the things I say, they stick, okay? They do. Yeah. For better or for worse. Yeah. We need like a dictionary on the subreddit somewhere.

Like what they all mean, all these. Yeah, there's like a lore. Yeah. Well, speaking of law, Anom 824 says, Hi, Adam, Alex and Jake, long time. Hi. Is art inherently spiritual to you? Keeping the question intentionally pretty vague.

Thanks for reading the question. comment and if you're looking for a hilarious movie akin to Nathan Fielder comedy check out windy city heat or is that windy city heat I think it's windy the bobcat galtway okay windy city heat yeah I've heard of it thanks for the wreck um hmm I guess so how do you define spiritual exactly but I can give an answer that's you know in my usual character is that although I'm not a spiritual person in the same definition that you know you would use if you're doing uh astrology or whatever or crystals or religious stuff like I'm not that but I understand the emotional the emotional result of that or the emotional um experience of that and I used to be

religious when I was like 13 right and so I'm I feel like I'm very familiar in a tune with like the types of emotions that go along with things like a sense of greater purpose or you know a sense of the universe kind of doing things in your favor or something like that even if I on a literal level attribute those to just you know the physical chemical reactions within someone's brain. I still feel those same things and I still get those same things. So in that sense,

I do feel as though art is a spiritual experience. Like I don't believe in a soul, but music and writing music especially is like good for my soul. It heals me on a spiritual level, but just not in a literal sense, more in a poetic sense.

Yeah, I feel somewhat. similarly if I'm using the I just search like define spiritual if we're going by the relating to or affecting the human spirit or soul especially like the human spirit I guess well that means in a more esoteric kind of way than directly just being like a religious thing for me but like I I definitely believe the art can bring you to whatever that place that wants us to explain as a spirit or a or whatever, something beyond us as an individual. Even just this last Sunday I saw an Irish band called the Hot House Flowers,

and they were getting all this crowd engagement and doing this, like, they were using sort of like gospel kind of, I guess, technique, you could call it. Sure. When people are harmonizing and just like the energy when it comes together, it's like, man, this, I'm not religious, but this is like a spiritual. spiritual experience basically like what this art is doing to me right now and I've had similar things with certain movies or books or whatever so I definitely believe that that is there is the the human expression side of it is almost like innate and that's kind of what I'm looking for so I guess it is inherently spiritual if that's the definition we want to go with it's no coincidence to me that nearly every major religion that has survived through the Darwinism of religions, you know, like so many religions have existed throughout time and some fade away and some stick.

It is no coincidence to me that the overwhelming majority of surviving religions include and promote as a part of their daily culture and ritual music, right? Like they, the, the, the act of not only listening to music, but especially live music, and especially singing with other groups of people. Like, we've, we've studied the psychological effects on the human brain that that does to people. And it does bring you a greater sense of fulfillment and belonging within a community. Like, it's doing things to people on a subconscious level that we would consider to be spiritual, even though in my perspective, it's explained within the human brain.

I just think that there's more things happening in the human brain than your literal first-person conscious experience, right? Whether or not we get into like fucking Jungian psychology and like animas and different selves, there's at the very least subconscious parts of your brain that you're not consciously aware of that are playing into how you perceive the world consciously. and art and especially music can very much influence how you perceive the world and give you these greater senses of meaning. What you, Jake? How does this strike you inherently spiritual? What? Oh.

Yeah. I'm sure. I have no idea. You know, as, Someone who is, I, I'm, all right, maybe at some point I would have a more coherent answer about this, but I feel like at this point in my life where I am with making art, you know, and writing is very important to me. And I find that to think of it on those terms is very unhelpful for me. Really?

And I'm productive and doesn't contribute. Yeah, it doesn't help me. You know, I used to be and consider myself a spiritual person. I don't think I am anymore. I guess I, I, I don't know. I just, my relationship to art has changed a lot and I don't, I think, I can't even articulate my, my feelings about it, you know, it's, it's too complicated and I don't know how to even, you know, express it. because it is like an intangible thing that isn't, I can't verbalize or really, there's really no point.

And it just doesn't help me to think about it on those terms. So pass. I pass. That's fair. Well, when we find a cure for BBS, we'll get back to you. Thank you so much. Yeah. One day.

Well, I do have one that you might be able to answer here from Exploding Ninja. Jake, since you're a big book guy, what's your opinion on audiobooks? And are there any books where you would recommend someone listen to the audiobook rather than read it with their eyes? Personally, I'd recommend that for Stephen King's The Stand. I'm going to be very rude here and say I'm tired of this fucking question in general. Everyone is all up in their fucking feelings about audiobooks. I who care it's it's still a book if you listen to it you know if a person is blind and they listen to an audio book they're still reading the book yeah if you listen to it like whatever

I don't care read it however you like you're you're uh you know we're red bedtime stories as kids we you know storytelling started out as an oral tradition you know that's how the iliad the odyssey I mean come on it's it's it's like a weird value judgment on on people are trying to make this kind of case of, oh, you aren't actually reading if you're just listening to it. Who gives a fuck? Thank you. Yeah. Is that like the significant amount of people that are like trying to gate keep books? People get keep everything. That's crazy.

It is an endless question online about, yeah, if there's something can be gate kept, they will. Yeah. If there's any minor thing where you can like tell yourself that you're actually better than other people by doing just a simple thing a little differently, then people will do that. I can speak on personal, in my personal terms, that some books I like to look at the page and read the words on the page, and some books, I'm fine listening to it. I'm a little less engaged, just how my brain works when I'm listening to a book. But if I'm, like, familiar with the author and I kind of know the cadence of the language,

then it's like, all right, cool, I'm good with this. I don't need to listen to the 15th Richard Stark novel. Or I don't need to read it. You know, it's just, it just depends. There you go. I like, it makes reading while walking easier. There you go. Whatever you got to do.

Yeah. To get the book done, you know. Like, we live in a fucking illiterate time. Like, if you're reading a, if you, if to read a book, you got to listen to it as an audiobook while you're swimming and the mission impossible submarine. Like, I don't, whatever it takes, whatever you got to do. Just read people. Sure.

Good answer. Nice. I like that answer. The big Twitch has one for us. As a massive MMA fan, my most anticipated movie this year has been the smashing machine. If you've seen the trailer, I'm curious about your thoughts on the first look of Dwayne Johnson's performance. It's easy to clown on him, always playing himself, but this time he seems to really be giving

it as all. actual character and I'm excited to see how he does. I also highly recommend watching the documentary of the same name. It's a fascinating look at a soft-spoken gentle giant whose life and career spiraled out of control far too soon. I was avoiding the trailer because I was I'm pretty just sold on anything. The Safdi's do, I think it's just Benny for this one right? I confused them. But I was I saw it in the it played before Mission Impossible on the big IMAX screen so I saw the trailer and thought um i yeah i guess i've never seen a good performance from

the rock but if it's going to happen it's going to be in something with a saffty in it so yeah it looked decent it looked good i like the prosthetics on him yeah yeah i guess he's really got a try huh he's actually got to try he's going for an oscar you can't just be the rock yeah maybe will this be the first safty film that gets recognized at the Oscars in any way at all. It might take the rock to get there.

I am looking forward to it because the trailer looks good, but between the two safeties making movies, I am siding with, because I have to make it to competition, of course. I am siding with Marty Supreme because I read somewhere that it's being compared, or the screenplay is being compared to like Nashville and Robert. Albert Altman, so it has like that Altman influence. I'm just really curious about that movie. But I do think the Smashing Machine trailer looks really good.

And it, but part of me, it makes me hate it because I hate how easy it is for the Rock to go for that Oscar nomination. Because I do think it's going to be like, like, come on, it's the rock, the biggest movie star. He puts on a fake nose. And then it's like, we love you. it's like the Robert Donnie Jr thing like he's doing the Robert Downey Jr. play and it's going to work. I have no idea.

We'll see what happens. We thought for sure fucking Adam Sandler was going to get a nom for uncut gems but the Academy just hates the safeties, I guess. I don't know what's going on. I think it's changing.

It better be. It's been a few years, you know. I mean like yeah, eventually they're going to have to acknowledge them in some way. It's just shocking that it hadn't happened. Like it should have happened with like good time.

Right? Yeah. Like uncut gems would have already been too late to acknowledge the Safteens. They fucking, like, the curse didn't get a single fucking Emmy nom either. Like, what the hell is with them and being snubbed? What's going on? You could say they're cursed. Oh, good.

A bit of a curse. Yeah, fuck. Like, they're making some of the best, most interesting films right now. Like, they're really talented artists. Like, why did they break up, though? Why did they break up? That's what I want to know. I mean, you know, here's the thing.

I don't know if they officially broke up, because I think there's, I think there's something in production where they're both working together again. Let's see. Actually, I don't know. Maybe I lied. Maybe they did break up.

Same with the Cohen brothers. The Cohen brothers broke up. Yeah, I was thinking about the Coens. Yeah. It's not okay. It's not okay. Male loneliness. is a true, it's a true problem in our culture.

It's not like a, they need to be our content slaves. Dividing brothers. Oh, I mean, you know, fucking Benny is doing some great stuff solo. I'm intrigued by, you know, Marty Supreme, interested to see what Josh does,

but right now, like, Benny is doing great. So, no issues with that. Mm-hmm. I like Benny. Proud of you, Benny. Keep going.

Keep going. We're proud of you. You can do it, Benny. You can do it. Keep going. He'll make it. Never give up. You'll get nominated at some point.

Only if the Rock can bring you there. He was nominated for an enemy for what? Telemarketers. What the hell is that? Oh yeah. Somebody told me to watch that. All right. Oh, it's a documentary.

Because he produced it. They both produced telemarketers. That's not real. That doesn't count. That doesn't count Oh yeah, yeah The Emmys wouldn't have nominated it If they remembered that they produced it

All right, next question Oh, okay Let's do this one From Spooky Halloween 1 Thank you for the wonderful videos And consistency Over the years from you all I got to see

Hurry Up Tomorrow in the cinema And got to laugh At it being in my opinion One of the worst films I've sat through in my life What are some films That you got to see in the cinema That were among

The worst you have ever seen Which screenings had few people in them so you could laugh openly. It was me and three other people for hurry up tomorrow. Two left halfway through. Keep up good work. Everyone. Yeah.

I don't think any of us outside of Adam have seen that one. Hurry up tomorrow. Yeah, it was shit. It was terrible. Very boring. But not funny. Not funny bad. Like maybe during like fucking 10 seconds of it, it was funny.

It was just so fucking boring. So, but like barely anything happened. It's just meandering. He made Crescia, right? Because I remember I watched Crescia years ago because I think of Adam's review of it. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, you made Cretia. He made it.

Comes at night. He made waves. Those are all fantastic films. But then this was, this was, even though his names on it and he directed it, this was more of the weekend project than it was a Trey Edward Schultz project. Maybe he needs to make a weekday project next. I think so. Time straight.

Get serious. There was a movie in theaters in the United States of America that I saw called Lumina. And it has a six metascore, a 2.2 out of 10 IMDB user rating. And this was a film that I was impressed I was able to see in a regular theater. Like it, in terms of like what. can be in a movie theater. I was, I was like, you can see a movie this bad in a theater.

Like, this is allowed in a theater. So that was crazy. And I'm... And it wasn't like a movie madness thing. No, it was a regular... Just being. Yeah, it was like at an AMC. And one other person showed up in the movie,

as in like one other person in the theater other than, me and my two friends who were laughing at the movie, and that's why we were there. They came in with a huge, huge bucket of popcorn, big drink, and they sat down a few rows behind us, and within five minutes,

they were snoring. Like, they literally passed out within five minutes, and I was like, damn, I would almost think that he went, to the theater to take a nap if he didn't have that gigantic tub of popcorn

with him. He was just snoring. Oh, it was great. It was great. It's so funny. I want to do a watchalong on this, actually. I wish I could sleep like that. It's hilarious.

It's a funny movie. I want to cover it in some way. I was actually thinking of maybe recommending on the podcast. Maybe I'll do a video on it. I'm just like, I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing right now. Yeah, yeah.

Watch Luminah. That was definitely the worst thing I was able to see in the theater. I mean, it looks interesting. Yeah, if you're discounting like the rooms and some of green stuff or whatever, the crowd is obviously wants to be there. I don't know. I just think of shit like skyscraper.

But like, it's like hilarious to me. But yeah, people just like start leaving and just they're on their phone the entire time. Or like just bottom of the barrel shit, like land of the lost. I remember seeing that in the cinema. people leaving what was that again it was just like some will feral remake of that that campy show

but as like a film it was completely horrendous but I think I was too young to actually like yeah I wasn't driving so I couldn't just like leave I was stuck there yeah kidnapped

unlawfully detained yeah those of what kind of pop into my head yeah what about you jake snow weight no no no no i still think because this was just so devastating for me watching this movie and i don't think it's as bad as you've got the movies you guys are talking about but it's got to be star wars episode nine um whatever the fuck it's called ray skywalker um that was so that and that was the last movie i saw before covid and i for a time period i thought that might be the last movie I'd ever see in a theater.

It just, I just remember, like, the mood in the theater was so excited that, but by the end, people, everyone was just, like, openly laughing. It was so, just like out of exasperation. It was, it was, I've never had a movie going like, movie going experience like that where there was so much hype brought down to zero. It was crazy. Yeah, that's a good answer. They chose to please no one. They really did. It's impressive.

I mean, it just killed the franchise for still. It's like, they're still talking about doing another movie and they're just like, I don't know. Ryan Gosling is popular right now. Let's have him do one. They're scared to release another movie. Anyways. All right. Last question.

Damn. Right. Let's wrap up on this question then from BBD-4116. What are your favorite album covers, not the actual albums themselves, just the artwork on them? Love deep web. So I got a few I can shout out. What was that? No love deep web.

No love. Let me see this. Oh, don't look it up. I mean, well, you could. Yeah. Oh, shit, yeah. No, I know the one. Yeah, that's a good one.

There's one called, oh, what is the name? Motherfucker, I am A. M.N. and Hallelujah. Yeah, I am. Motherfucker, I am both Amen and Hallelujah. just the fucking horses asshole in it it was interesting what music are you listening to it was posted all over well it was posted on the fantano subreddit and then people posted it on my subreddit

oh obviously okay and then I was like oh this is interesting um yeah those your favorites I mean those definitely stick out to me you know I like pushing boundaries I like that death grips was like yeah We're going to write on Sharpie the name of the album, and I'm just going to have my erect penis, and we're going to take a photo. And that's the album cover. Like, that's punk as fuck. Like, push boundaries.

Is it, um, if you, like, buy the vinyl, is it, like, blurred out? If you buy the vinyl, it comes with a sleeve that covers the album artwork, and then you take it out of said sleeve when you leave the store. So, yeah, the money store, some great album artwork there, too. 10 years by an unkindness, I think that that's some pretty great album artwork. You know, it's a really great painting there. Yeah, I don't know. I'm often drawn to the idea with album covers when it isn't just like a photograph of the person that's in it. Like just, like the equivalent of on movie posters where it's all the floating faces, basically.

It's like, you have like this whole canvas here to do whatever you want. Now like when people get weird with it. And it's often never the, like, the best album of a band that will have like the, the best album cover for me. It's more like one that pops to my mind is King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. I have this album called Quarters, where it's a four song album where every song is 10 minutes, 10 seconds long. But the album cover is like four album covers in one, too. It's like a weird little concept album. That's kind of thing that pops out to me.

Like, it's not my favorite NIN album, but further down the spiral has a really cool. It's like a close-up of a ragged, old, coiled rope, which has always sort of like stood out and popped to me. What else is there? I've got a shout out, remain in light. The talking heads, just iconic with the red scratches over the black and blue headshots of all the band members. Absolutely love that one. maybe one more zero by low roar

it's got like a cool like minimalist landscape photography overlay with these like map lines and like satellite footage to like make this face really great album really cool

creative I like it when it like sets a tone for an album or like an idea just in a single image to like compliment what it's trying to do There's something so evocative of the in the court of the Crimson King album cover. You know what I'm talking about? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Like that you see once and then you never forget. You're like, oh, that face. Yeah, that's another iconic one. Man, yeah. I mean, describing visuals on a podcast is always, fun I'm thinking

you know I really like the album Shadows by Gordon Lightfoot I really like the cover which is nothing fancy as just his face in shadow and then for a comedic one that is actually kind of bad

I'm going to go with Bob Dylan's album. Oh man, there's so many to pick. Wait, which one am I thinking of? The one with, fuck, what is it called? He's got some funny covers. Knocked out loaded. Knocked out loaded. That's like, wait, no, his newest album has really bad cover art. It's not even cropped right. What is the new album? It's like they didn't even try. Um, rough and rowdy ways yeah it's it's very bad it's a good album with a really bad cover it's like widescreen I don't know what they were thinking that's yeah that looks like shit you're right

that's so odd oh yeah yeah I have similar feelings over um that David Bowie album reality oh my god yeah the cover is always like what are we going for yeah that's like devian art That's fun Yeah, that one gets me Yeah I wonder what I'm gonna do For my next album cover Think about it

Get the deviant artists on it Yeah There you go I should do my own No Love Deep Web Yeah Yeah Yeah why not

Fuck it Gotta be transgressive What do they have that I guess it's like an alternate version of the thing on, if you look at it on Spotify, no love, deep. I think it's the blurred out one. Oh yeah, there's a blurred out one. I see.

So it's not even the true album artwork. Those cowards. Or this censorship. Yeah. Whatever. All right. I guess that was it. Good questions.

All right. I think we've done it. Thank you. Now Jake is about to hit us with an epic recommendation. Okay, I have been... Okay, because I didn't realize I wasn't thinking about what to recommend, but I've been brewing on this while we've been talking...

I've been half listening to you guys. Okay. Am I allowed to do a double feature? Is that allowed? Well, I mean, okay. What I'll say is we might be wanting to do both either the rehearsal and or the new...

final destination as well. So it depends on like how meaty I guess if we would want to save it for I don't know. I guess it's up to you. I'll let you decide. Wow. A lot of power here. You guys really just let

let you just let us do anything. You asked. No rules? No nothing. Okay. Just fuck it. I recommend a double feature of Okay, man, okay. Hold on. I got to think because one double feature I want to do, at least one of the movies is terrific. The other one, not so much.

And then the other one, I guess both have kind of, okay, all right, you know what, fuck it. I recommend Legally Blonde and the sequel Legally Blonde 2. Okay. All right. I don't know if I've seen this. Nice. Oh, perfect. I actually have.

I think I saw them both like a year or two of you. Yeah. Weirdly fresh in my mind. Oh, okay. All right, cool. Thank you. It is a pretty epic recommendation, honestly. I think I'm pleased.

I never thought I would watch these movies. Well, I'm glad. I'm going to withhold all my judgment of these films. I'm not even going to hint at which one might be the bad one. Okay, cool. Or if there is a bad one, maybe they're both masterpieces. You decide. Yeah, we'll see.

Never thought I would watch one of these. Thanks for helping me explore new art and artists and help me step outside my comfort zone when it comes to the landscape of cinema. Thank you so much. You're welcome. So, yeah, if you don't want to be spoiled for Legally Blonde 2001 and Legally Blonde 2, colon, red, white, and blonde. 2003.

Watch them. That's the full fucking title on IMDP. Watch them. Before the next episode comes out. These episodes come out every two weeks. You can listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com. Sign up for premium. It's only a few dollars a month.

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Have a happy together. Have a happy together. Happy BBS. Bye everybody. Thanks for listening. Bye bye-bye. Bye.