Sardonicast - Sardonicast 195: The Fantastic Four: First Steps, Funny Games

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sardonicast.bsky.social Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Jake's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ManCarryingThing Jake's movie channel: https://www.youtube.com/@womancarryingman Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/yms.bsky.social Jake's twitter: https://x.com/ManCarrying Jake's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mancarryingthing.bsky.social Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Jake's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mancarryingthing Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 5:59 The Fantastic Four: First Steps 43:41 Funny Games 2:01:32 Questions 2:21:34 Recommendation + outro

Three, two, one. Because you were home. That's a quote from funny games, starring Liv Tyler. I'm Adam from your movie sex. This is Sardana cast. Wow, that was cool. I like that.

I dig that. I'm Alex from I. I'm going to go with a... You think they stand a chance? Yeah. Nice. That's good. Very short.

very brief ones. All right, I'm Jake Man Caring Thing and I'm going to go with, oh shit, oh shit, oh shit, oh fuck, I keep dropping eggs. What? Oh, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Why can't I hold all these eggs? Yeah. I thought I started, I thought the movie was just about a fucking idiot who doesn't know how to hold eggs. Yeah. Oh, it kind of is. It's one of the themes. Yeah, maybe they were normal until he dropped the eggs. Then something snapped. Yeah, something's for sure. I got to say, I'm loving how I'm not the only one doing movie quotes anymore.

Now we're all kind of just doing. We all get to. Yeah, that just kind of organically happens. Nice. I actually felt extreme peer pressure, so it wasn't organic to me. Good. This is a good example of peer pressure.

Exactly. Yeah, forcing. If there's one thing I've learned in my life, it's that you want to live your life based out of fear of what other people think of you. You want to conform to what others are doing around you because you don't want to stick out. It's scary. That's good advice. That is good advice.

That's profound. I call it being society cucked and that's the best way to live it. Your tone makes it sound like you mean the opposite though. It's a very sardonic tone, if I might say so myself, as a. in as if you don't really believe what you're saying. Oh, interesting. Oh. I consider it to be more sarcastic.

Okay. Well, this isn't the sarcastic cast, is it? Yeah, but you can't spell sardonicast without sarcast. I think we should do a spinoff of sardonicast just called sarcasticast, and it's just the same episodes, but we're slightly happier because we've all had a couple of beers. Yeah. Okay, sarcastic done. Sarcastid, that sounds like a dinosaur.

Yeah, it is. I don't know. Okay. Hell yeah. Now you want me over. Announcement. Announcement. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Oh. Episode 200 is coming up. And Alex and Jake are going to visit me, and we're going to do a live stream for episode. We are? 200. Aboot's time. You didn't get the memo? That's news to me, but I'll figure out.

I'll take a bus up there or something. Yeah, figure it out, okay? Yeah. Okay. No, I'm excited. Yeah, yeah, we're going to do a live stream. We did one for episode 100 as well. So figured we'd continue the tradition.

There will be, you know, a live Q&A, a live talking about the movies or whatever. And I think, yeah, I think we're going to have the recommendations be another audience poll. we did last time. So if anybody wants to participate in said poll, sign up on the Patreon. Okay? Because I think the way we did it last year, we had it like connected through the the Discord or something. I think you get the Discord rolls through Patreon. If there's any issues leading up to this, we got a little bit of time. We got a couple months. Let me know, make a post on the subreddit or something if we need to work out some kinks

or the logistics or anything. What did they recommend last time? What did they make you watch last time? Is it like a serious movie or something to... SpongeBob? The SpongeBob movie and Possession, right? Yeah. We got SpongeBob movie and Possession.

And I loved Possession. So we got something good out of... I love both. Yeah. Okay. We got something good out of... Oh, good. The recommendations.

Like, we can, we, we can veto anything also. If they want to recommend us like a 12 hour something, we can just be like, no. Yeah, that's a good thing about being on the Patreon. You can stop the brigading of some, some meme thing. Also, yeah, choose something extra esoteric because I'm going to be so jet-legged. It should be interesting. Just show up early enough. It's funny because it feels like I'm doing like a victory lap when I've done like 10 episodes.

It's like, yeah, man, those 200 episodes, that I did. Yeah. A lot of work. It's celebrating Jake's 200th episode. Yeah. Nice one man. Well, you were here in spirit for the other ones.

I was watching you. Well, I was watching you all just creepily through the screen. Voyeurism. Carrying in the background. Yeah. You were learning. I was learning. I was evolving.

You were critical taste to become the perfect third chair of Sardonic. You're studying the blade. While you guys were, what does that, how does that phrase go? While you guys were hanging out with attractive women, I was. I don't know what the phrase is. What is this? Are you even quoting? Sounds like a good person.

That's not me. It's like, while you were partying, I was studying the blade. Oh. Well, you were out drinking. Eating hot chip and lying. I was being a Chad Yeah, exactly Well, speaking of Blade

Who is a character in the Marvel franchise You guys saw a Marvel movie That was a good transition Yeah, it was the best one I think I was okay I think it was the best one That was like long pause And then Blade

That's Marvel Yeah We recognize Blade in this household Yeah you guys saw it I didn't Who gives a shit We saw Fan Forstake. We all give a shit, actually. We're all Marvel fans here, and it's time for the new Marvel review.

I heard it's wicked. What voice was that supposed to be? What was that? Just my guy, just my new character, testing him out. Okay, cool. I like him. Should use them more. First question.

Was I incorrect for not seeing this movie? Yeah, because you should see every movie. Oh. Oh. Yeah, I should just not have time for anything at all. I don't think you get much out of it. Yeah. You know, I'm actually, here's the thing.

Here's what people don't understand is that time exists. No, it doesn't. Okay? You got to decide what to do with your time. It's a currency. I'm halfway through a four-hour-long part-one film called castration movie. And I'm really enjoying. Caspration movie part one traps

This is not a joke You can buy the film on the internet It's a weird movie About transness and 4chan culture And it's filmed like it's Like it's a fucking Dogma 95

It's like Julian Donkey Boy It's like early Harmony Korean But it's really interesting Wow I've actually heard of this That's the most Adam sentence I've ever heard That's amazing Yeah

So don't tell me I need to see fucking fantastic four when there's much more interesting things to watch. Okay? You uncultured swine. I'm better than you. Yeah, keep going. Hi, my name's Anna Kasparian. We need more engagement for the subreddit, so just say something else like. Normies.

Oh yeah Yeah Bram nomis That's the good one That's the golden child Say the N word That's been my motto Yeah

Wait what Oh oh Norma Yes yes All right Took me off guard there Wait there's another round No not that I'm more Nostalgia

Okay Yeah you guys talk about this I don't care Okay Yeah I was kind of Antisbet in this Like I enjoyed the episode We did a few episodes back now

We did the Was it three existing or i guess it's now four four fantastic falls um and a lot of the issues that were bringing up consistently with those early 2000s movies i feel like we're kind of addressed in this one um the biggest ones being like there are four characters that you have to kind of like in some way so we'll characterize or give some angle to make them interesting and i feel like at a base level, it achieved that? There's a bunch I could get into as far as like, you know, character arcs or,

but it really feels like they've just gone back to basics, you know? Like, there's no baggage as far as, yeah, did you see, uh, season three of, uh, blibbibh and, uh, the phase two part five thingy. So you can understand this? It's like, no, it's just a fantastic four. It's like a different universe, different timeline. just sent up. I kind of felt that in the movie where it's like almost like a fear.

Like apparently a bunch of stuff had been taken out of it. Like John Malkovich was supposed to be included in some way. And it's weirdly short too. Like it's strange for these to be under two hours. It's one of the rare times I actually feel like I could have done with like 20 more minutes of this, especially so I could have more the thing or maybe have like a character arc. It just keeps it simple, keeps it simple stupid. It was, yeah, it was decent.

It was probably like a bit below thunderbolts. But also, like, I can't help but feel like it's been a little bit kneecapped by Superman with like the overlap of this kind of 60s encoded characters, you know, and like the campy stuff and the more kind of hopeful tone and that kind of thing. But I thought it was okay. All about your top level stuff. Yeah, you are not selling it for me. I'm so happy I didn't see this.

Um, you know, I'm, I'm pretty much with you on a lot of that. Like, it, it's a sweaty movie. Like, you feel, everyone's sweating. It's sweaty as well. Everyone's like, okay, well, what did people say on Reddit about fantastic? Okay, we have like all these failed Fantastic Four movies. So let's do something that's going to be just right. We're going to do like a super cool throwback.

Be really faithful to the look and feel of Fantastic Four. We're going to focus on their dynamic as characters. They're going to be like really, really fun and inoffensive, but also it's going to be, it's got to be under two hours because people hate that now. And we can't really have a bunch of connections to like the wider universe because people think that's annoying. So I mean, this is just my issue right now is that Marvel feels kind of directionless right now and that they're kind of going off of what is, what are the vibes? What are the, what's the backlash? What can we do to make you guys happy?

You know, we just want you to like us. Let's check Reddit. The ultimate test audience. Yeah, and you know, that's kind of maybe why I was slightly disappointed watching Fantastic Four. I didn't hate it. It definitely was, had a lot of good qualities that I really enjoyed. I mean, the set design, the costumes, just the little gadgets and the wonderful little, I mean, it's just like a fun, tactile world. It feels more real than most Marvel movies. I'd say it's the best Fantastic Four movie that exists. Oh, easily.

Well, except maybe the one in the 90s. That was that's fun in a different way. But yeah, it's it just, it works. The characters have, don't really have any character arcs and they're, they're very flat and it feels very like, like a comic book issue that doesn't really, that's just kind of like a fun, self-contained story. But also while it's trying to be fun and like having this look and feel of like, yeah, we're like doing like a 60s throwback and this is fun and these characters are, are. like a family. It is so stressful. Like, it's a very oppressive, uh, feeling movie. Like, I don't know. Like, my theater was pretty full, but nobody was laughing at any of the jokes because Yeah, same. I thought that was just the brutes. Yeah, everything just felt so heavy because it's like

another earth destroying, um, situation. Uh, the stakes are super high. And also there, I don't, I think, I don't think this is a spoiler, but there's a baby at stake. And, you know, you know, me, I love when babies are in peril in movies. You know, it doesn't definitely doesn't strike any, like, animal instincts within me about my own child. So it doesn't help. I saw this after getting only two hours of sleep. And I was just like, I felt very manipulated personally. I felt like, okay, on an intellectual level, I'm watching this going.

where the characters aren't very deep. The story isn't working very well. But I need this baby to survive. Like, you're like dangling a baby in peril. Like for 90% of the movie, I'm going to, I'm going to have a gut feeling. Like, it was very stressful. It was like watching uncut gems. And I'm like, I don't know if you felt that way, Alex.

But I was like, this is stressful. This isn't very fun. And by the end of it, it was just kind of like, what was the point? Like, that was a lot. Yeah. when you say what is the point, I was kind of thinking like, I was expecting more of this movie to be like a platform or a link to whatever this Robert Downey Jr.'s Avengers thing was going to be. I really thought that we're going to use it more like that. But it really doesn't go that direction.

It's actually quite self-contained and the only link is in like an end credits thing after a time skip. So it's like, oh, okay, this really is just kind of setting this stuff up. Yeah, but what you're saying about the baby I actually thought one of the better scenes in the movie was the not only like the surprising lack of action but that's like a set piece involving the baby like maybe around the halfway point I really like this angle for these characters, you know?

No, I actually liked that too, like the middle section of the movie that's very, um, we're not doing spoilers I assume but we're just the space stuff. You can, I don't care. No, Adam doesn't want it spoiled. I don't mind at all. Well, I'm thinking about our viewers. I don't know.

Maybe we could in a few minutes, transition into a spoiler stuff. I mean, just say when you have the spoiler section and then spoil what you want and they can skip it. We got timestamps. Okay. Yeah. Well, I won't spoil anything yet then. But yeah, there are some great set pieces that are like interstellar inspired, a very kind of visually fun and exciting that I really like. So it worked on me on like a gut level.

But at the end of it, I just. kept thinking like, oh, that was a plot contrive-ins. That was not done very well. And at the end of the day, it doesn't feel unlike Superman, which felt with all its flaws like a James Gunn movie, like he basically had say over what it was. This felt very much like Matt Schackman is not really an established film director on the same level. And I imagine he didn't have the same control over this film. And it feels that way. It feels like a lot was cut out of it. it and I guess that's the reporting I guess have you seen that that a bunch of stuff was cut yes what I was referencing with the with the John Malmalkovich stuff yeah yeah yeah so I don't

know I personally could have done with it being a bit longer so you could actually do something with some of these characters because they'll sprinkle things in that seem to imply that maybe there was an arc or a direction like keep going back to the thing but because that was like my favorite character I think but he has like this love interest and it doesn't really go anywhere or do anything? It's like, what? It's not just a love interest,

but Natasha Leone, who's like a big, yeah, big actress. So it's like, what was the point of that? Was it he, like,

sewing seeds for something? Like, or is that just a symptom of these cuts and stuff like that? Like, yeah, it is sweaty. But I got to say, one of the ongoing things with our other fantastic full kind of

critiques was the stretching stuff. And how freaky that would be. And it did seem like they were hiding it in the trailers, because maybe they weren't that confident, but I was kind of won over by the stretching. I thought it was like fine. Yeah, I didn't mind it. He wasn't like liquefying himself under doorways or anything. I wasn't getting scared.

I feel like that's a big one. There were one of two scary little moments with it because it's just inherently kind of weird. But the cartoony kind of campiness of it wasn't as freaky as it has been in the past. Even though there is like a kind of a body horror thing with the stretching. in the movie that was like, wow, that's, that's how you're kind of disturbing. I kind of dig that. Yeah, there are a lot of weird, like, I feel like it's a tonally odd movie because it is trying to have, and I was kind of hoping it was setting up some kind of commentary on this,

like thematically of like, we're doing a retro 60s world where everything is perfect and there's like sci-fi and the world seems to work in harmony, mostly the Fantastic Four are like benevolent gods of this world. And I thought maybe we'll do some commentary on that when can I say spoilers or when we get into spoilers? Should we just go into spoilers? Do it. I feel like part of like the Marvel issue right now is that it seems like they're kind

of only really making their films for Marvel fans. It feels like a lot of the like broader thing that they used to be able to tap into isn't there anymore. So it seems like most people just kind of go out and see it when it's in that first, maybe second weekend and then they seem to drop off a lot more than they used to. So, yeah, I think we can go into spoilers. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I thought there was going to be some kind of thematic payoff or set up with this like retro sci-fi 60s world and maybe show like a darker underbelly once the Fantastic Four reveal very stupidly that Galactus is willing to take their child and spare the earth.

So Galactus is like, I need to eat these planets and your planet is next. unless you give me your child, your unborn child, who is like a god, apparently, or who's going to become a god. So do that, we can spare the earth. And they, of course, have this big fight scene that we talked about being really pretty good, like a chase sequence with a silver surfer who works for Galactus. And they finally come back home and there's a press conference and Reed Richards just straight up tells the earth like, yeah, Galactus said that if we give him our kid, then he'll spare you all. but we're not going to do that. That's funny. That was kind of dumb.

And everyone is mad at them, as you'd expect. Is that the baby that is going to die maybe? That is the baby, and there is a very stressful childbirth sequence in space. Oh, cool. Where Sue Storm gives birth to what looks like a seven-month-old baby. But An adult baby Funny CG as well

You can't Yeah very weird CG baby effects Very a twilight coded Um in certain moments That's unfortunate It was very uncanny

But fun set these though It's like a zero G birth While in a chase scene Yeah Which is really fun to me It stood out Yeah it was like Yeah I did that

Pretty thrilling yeah Okay And then so I thought Okay The world is mad at them Because they're refusing to buy into Galactus's deal. And there's like protests and everything. And I thought, oh, maybe this is going to like change up the dynamic of how the Fantastic Four deals with like society

and like what is their responsibility to society and everything. But then Sue Storm goes out there with her baby in front of this angry mob and delivers a very brief heartfelt speech about being good. and then they all start cheering and they just decide to build, they decide to build a giant teleportation machine on Earth to move Earth to another part of the universe where Galactus won't be able to find them. That sounds like that could have unintended consequences that. I think scientists might be against them. My first thought was, what about the moon?

Yeah. I was like, we're not moving the moon as well. Won't that like kill a lot of people? The tides. Yeah. See, I thought that was kind of fun. Like the, as soon as that conflict kind of came in with Galactus being like, I need, I won your baby. Yeah.

Your baby's mine or we eat you. And this kind of trolley problem situation. Like this is kind of a fun idea for these characters to go through to like try and solve. And yeah, the Sue Storm way of resolving it was yeah, a little bit convenient and quick, I guess, just so they could get to the teleportation stuff. But speaking of Sue Storm, actually, she was one of the bigger issues with the previous movies as far as like they just couldn't. They just didn't know what to do with her. But I feel like Vanessa Kirby actually did a good job.

They made her likable and have like a good dynamic in there. So yeah, I like that they did the, this kind of reminds me of what Adam was saying about Superman with the bare minimum being praised at a certain point. But yeah, they felt like distinct characters. and like they all had something to do, even if the, as far as the, a deeper thematic meaning is pretty surface level. It's like,

family, love, you know, like the Incredibles has like a deeper, uh, it's like a way deeper story, you know, and that's like a way more aimed at kids and it's still, it's still the best like Fantastic Four movie if we're including it.

Um, as a technicality. I think the Incredibles was the worst thing to ever happen to the Fantastic Four franchise. Yeah. Probably. could never ever live up to it. Watch this nerd. Speaking of the Incredibles though,

Michael Juccino did the music for the Incredibles coming in here. Nice. I feel like Marvel's had this ongoing issue where they don't really have themes outside of the Avengers theme. They've got so many characters that seems like a basic like, let's have light motifs in here. Let's give these characters themes. And this feels like one of the first groups outside of the Avengers that they've actually done it for. I really like the,

music here. It really complimented it nicely. You want to like say, every time it starts getting it's cool. Yeah, I really dug it. The music was fantastic. Yeah. Ooh. So hopefully they keep that up. Good word. Yeah. I mean, there's so much like it it felt like to me like a delicious candy bar that just doesn't have any nutritional value. Like, oh yeah, that's like empty calories. Yeah. Like the first 30 minutes, I was vibrating. I was just so happy. Like, I was like, oh, this looks amazing. These characters, like, I enjoy these characters.

I have a connection to the Fantastic Four. I thought that it was depicted very well. And then as the story goes on, I went, oh, we're just kind of doing like a plot. It felt very plot focused instead of like diving into these characters. There is some exploration of Reed's character, and I do like how we see him, like, struggle with being more human and how to deal with that. But I feel like what it felt like to me was there were lots of different passes on the script from different writers, setting up different things, and none of them really get paid off

satisfyingly. So like in the first act, we see Reed being stretched thin because he's stressed about protecting his family and the baby. And also we see him feeling guilt because he got everyone in danger when they were last in space. And he's also being kind of like a shitty family member because he's blowing Johnny off every time Johnny wants something from him. And so we're setting up these things. And I thought, okay, maybe we'll get some kind of.

like a lesson that he comes to or he learns where it's like, you know, his family's there to support him just as much as he is there. Like he doesn't have to be the only one stressed about protecting everyone and something like that. You know, even just something simple and basic. I mean, but the movie doesn't really follow through on that or at least it doesn't do it in a way that is like really clear. Like you could read into things, but it's not like a good.

good setup or payoff in my opinion. Like it kind of ends with just a big Galactus fight. And then the movie wraps up. And maybe somewhere in those missing 20 minutes, there's like extra depth. But it felt very much like, all right, we're done. Bye-bye. See you. Yeah, yeah.

Because I agree. I think I'm just feeling like the first half of it was a lot stronger and more interesting to me. So I guess it was slightly more character-focused. I agree the stuff with Reed being anxious about becoming a dad and like his super logic brain the way that would clash with being a parent where obviously like can't always use that to solve every issue and the way he class clashes with the Sue was kind of intriguing and there's more they could have done with that we're just giving it some

some arc we keep going back back to that but it's so true um it does yeah evolve at a certain point with the galactus stuff who i like the casting of by the way uh ralph innocent really good voice i like that they kind of scanned his face got that blooming voice But again, he's not really, he's not really, doesn't have much of our personality. He's just kind of, you know, big planet guy that eats, whatever. Yeah. And stomp's around a city. Actually, they give the Silver Surfer probably the biggest character arc, and it's very, like, kind of cheaply done.

True. And that's quite rushed, too. Yeah, very rushed. Yeah. It's still, like, an improvement on the last time they did the Silver Surfer story. It's all an improvement. It really is. that's saying too much.

Yeah, I thought they did the scale decently well. I always find it funny like reading the trivia and whatnot for these movies where it's like, yeah,

Matt Shackman was inspired by 2001 a space odyssey for the visual effects. And it's like, what? Okay, like I like the production design, I guess.

But I don't really see that kind of inspiration in there. It still has the kind of sheen of a Marvel movie. And yeah, with like Galactus, He's got like the force, I guess.

I didn't really understand like his like nerdy power level type stuff. And it does kind of devolve into him stomping around a city then being like pushed into a portal. And also like we're looking at like character arcs and development. Like if there was going to be some kind of payoff for them, it should be demonstrated in their actions, especially in the final fight. You know, like there are things that if they had set it up well, it'd be a lot more impactful. like there's a moment where like the only moment that the thing Ben Grimm gets at all is just saying it's clobbering time at the end. It's like.

I felt really flat to me like as a setup or a payoff. Like is he going to say it? Is you going to say it? I prefer if you just didn't say it in this movie. Like save it for like 58 movies time or something. That would be that would be. I mean if you're setting up something like do something about but it just felt like all right. That's kind of like a little bit of a fan thing.

And then Johnny is like he's going to sacrifice himself for the baby. But he's just kind of like a good guy the whole time. He doesn't really, like he has kind of a relationship developing with Silver Surfer, but that felt mostly for plot reasons. Like he has to, he translates her language, but for some reason he can't tell, read about it or anyone else, you know. So it's like it just felt like what is this doing to serve his character? or beyond just serving the plot. That's what I felt like a lot of the movie.

Like, okay, this feels like we're just trying to move the plot along. And we're doing things with these characters that just don't really mean as much than they do. Yeah, or just give them something to do literally outside of what it could mean, like about them as characters or say about them. I did like that it skipped over the origin story, though. I really liked that opening montage, like kind of setting that campy tone, like kicking orangutans and moleman. The dumbest stuff.

Well, that was my favorite moments was all the montages was just like the fun stuff. And it's like, why can't we have more of that as the movie instead of this dour like, oh my God, we might have to kill our baby. And like, I didn't think about killing our baby. Yes, you did think about killing our baby. I'm like, what? Yeah, it's really dark. Yeah.

Especially against that Jetson's kind of retrofuture thing is. It's funny how it's immediately gone that dark. I guess that is sort of just what I'm saying about this Marvel problem, where maybe ideally this would have been like the second Fantastic Four movie and there would have been like a first campy, just montagey, hey, it's moleman and the orangutan dude and John Malkovich, whatever he was going to be. And I don't know. I don't know if audiences want that. I don't think they even know what the audience wants at this point, especially with like the tease at the end where the big new bad, I guess Dr. Doom, he, you see the back of his head, I guess. You see the back of his hood and he's holding the mask.

Yeah. Four years later, time jump. It's like, oh, it's not really that exciting to me, but. We do see him missing at the United Nations of, like, what is it, Lottvariate? What is his country that he rules? That sounds right? Yeah. Okay.

Well, we see him missing and that's kind of it. But I think what I felt after seeing that cheese was like, oh, they really don't know what they're going to be doing for Doomsday. And there's reports out that they're still writing the end of the movie. It's been in production for what? Yes, fighting a month. And said to come out next December or something like that. Anyways, it did feel kind of like, oh, right, why was I enjoying this first half of the movie?

I remembered it's a Marvel movie and they aren't allowed to do anything like real in any of these stories unless it's an Avengers movie. So it just felt like, okay, let's do a solid story, get these characters to the end, and just so that we can have them for Doomsday, and then we'll figure out what we do with them in Doomsday. And that feels like all of these last couple of phases of all of these movies, like, all right, we just have these characters that we can use and then we'll go nuts for Doomsday, hopefully. Yeah. Yeah, because I don't know, part of me almost was hoping that if they had more Cajonos, that could have been like, they lose to Galactus and that's how they get to like another dimension because that's like that's what I thought the end of Thunderbolts right if that counts just like a spoiler um so it's like oh I guess we still don't know how they're getting there or uh what that means I thought maybe that the the Latvaria tease at the beginning was maybe going to come back when they were building all those portals that like it was that part of the world that and doom like sabotaging it that stopped them from being able to do it um instead of silver surfer coming just destroying it I don't know they could have

on something. Yeah, it's just so simple and just felt like, yeah, we can't have like a bad ending for this. It has to exist on its own. They really are quite in a bind, I feel, with like how far they've been doing this, how long they've been doing it and how many misses they've had. So yeah, they are so trepidacious. They can't afford like another eternals or whatever, you know, Thor or man, yeah, I don't know what they're expecting from it. I think it's doing okay. But, they did play it safe that's for damn sure if they did this if they made this movie with the same confidence they had it was when they made like captain marvel you know between infinity war and end him like if they made it around that era I think it would be two hours 45 minutes it'd be

you know it maybe it would be shitty but it'd be shitty in a different way of like let's try some crazy stuff whereas this feels like please like us please please please and yeah I mean it's it's pretty decent movie. I would put it, I'd say I enjoyed it about the same as I enjoyed Thunderbolts, but I think Thunderbolts has a better screenplay, like the characters have much more thorough arcs and it has like something to say. But I just, I love, I don't know, I love the Fantastic Four and I love the 60s vibes. So I did, you know, despite everything, enjoy this. I actually want to thank our viewers for recommending in like the comments on here and read it of Fantastic Four comics since we did that last episode because I'm reading some Fantastic Four comics and I feel

like that's helping me understand the characters better and kind of see where they went wrong with this in some ways and where they I'm reading Fantastic Four solve everything I think yeah Jonathan Hickman so yeah fun stuff yeah I guess that's that's I'm in a similar place to you. I feel like it's unusual for me to actually want a longer runtime for one of these movies or feel like, yeah, I want to see these guys again. Like, I like all of them. It wasn't like a weak link. They were all interesting, charismatic. Just need more thing, man. I like the look of him. I like all the different outfits and the beard thing where they've all got to like optimistically share power so he can't like shave and just like silliness. The campier it was, the more I kind of

enjoyed it. Yeah. Kind of with you, like, the more serious it got, the more. But I guess that's kind of like where they're going. I think that is the, what they're pulling from for the, is it the secret wars, whatever they're inspired by? Which is all about like the baby, like being kidnapped or something. Yeah. Because I guess this baby's like the most powerful being in all of Marvel or something. I don't really know the details, but. I just know that the last movie right before Infinity War was what, Thor Ragnarok. And that was like we have an idea of Thanos as being a big threat.

There's like lots of teasing it and like we've built up. Like this is just there's some like if you aren't familiar with the comics, it's like who is the bad guy? Who are we going to be facing? What is this even going to be about? Who is Victor von Doom? He isn't even named.

He literally just appears in the teaser. So they have a lot they have a lot to cover if this next movie is going to be successful. And I just, I don't know if they're going to pull it off. Yeah. I really wonder if them losing James Gunn the way they did has like done more damage than they're anticipating because like, Thanos was like established in like Guardians of the Galaxy, the whole stone thing. Yeah. It's like characterization of the first two movies before going

into like end game and Infinity War and how much he added to that was like you can't underestimate that. But he's gone now. So they didn't really have someone to fill that gap. No, he contributed a ton, yeah, to that world, building in the universe, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we'll see. I don't know. It's kind of, it's interesting, you know, just like this. It does feel like the hero, you know, comic movie genre, it is kind of waning a little bit.

Because even though Superman's doing well, Fantastic Four seems to be doing well, it's not like making a billion dollars, you know, in one weekend. You know, we're not in that era anymore. It's not Aquaman 2018. Yeah, yeah, it's just a different world. So who knows if, you know, maybe that's the way to be doing it is making cheaper movies and not. Yeah, I don't know. It'll be odd, but it's going to be different, I think, yeah. Yeah, because I feel like the zeitgeist around Superman is still way stronger than this one.

This just feels kind of like, yeah, it's like another Marvel. If you like Fantastic Four, you'll like it. But I feel like the Superman stuff has got like all the meme culture stuff, that monkey gif is everywhere. where, you know, people saying that the Lex gifts are everywhere. It feels like it's more like culturally relevant. It does, yeah. Maybe that's just the cycle. Like Marvel's good for a while, then DC's good for a while.

And I'm just like in all the other me, you that they infect. So, yeah, I don't know if you want to do ratings. I don't know if I have much more to say about it. It was good. It was fine. Doesn't reinvent the wheel anyway, just kind of establishes basics. I'd like to see these characters again. Give me more thing.

love that character. This would be like a, just a fine three-star, six out of ten. With a like, get a like there. Nice. Yeah, I'd give it six out of ten as well. So, yeah, more thing. We like the thing. The thing is, we love the thing.

That'd be nice. Yeah, but not bad at all. I'll ask you, Adam, now that you've heard the story of Fantastic Four, and you've heard us discuss it, are you eager to race to the theater to watch it? No. Okay. I like Vanessa Kirby, though. She was good in pieces of women. Yeah, she's good. I really like her.

Did you guys see pieces of a woman? No, it doesn't ring a bell. Okay. She was pregnant in that too. Now she's pregnant in real life. I saw a Mission Impossible. Yeah? She was in that. Yeah. Oh, I didn't see that.

She was really good in that. Yeah, no, she was like a gangster. Oh. Bad guy. Yeah. Very, very good. Okay. A lot of range.

Yeah, I, um, I'm not, I'm not going to watch this. I'm not going to watch Thunderbolts. Mm-hmm. Why is that? Well, okay, here's why. It's because I predict that with how fucking obnoxiously safe and boring, they're playing this introduction to their, their soft reboot or whatever we're calling it. I predict that both of you are going to experience something called sunken cost fallacy

and see more movies in the franchise than you actually want to because you're already so invested in it. And I'm going to come out on top and you're going to say, I regret having seen these dumb movies and getting peer pressured and society cucked into having conversations about films that I perceive to be culturally relevant and participated in them being culturally relevant by play. playing the fucking game. You're going to regret that. You're going to be coming back crying and saying,

Adam, I'm sorry. I'm going to be like, yeah, you should have watched castration movie Part 1 traps. What can you say? We're poor normie losers. Yeah, I guess this is a nomi mastapuse. Is it? Yeah.

No, it's not an argument, I guess. It's just, it's not even that. It's like a normie. Yeah, that's fine. It's just normal. Yeah. It's just normal. Fantasticly normal.

The way you guys are selling these films are just like, yeah, it's fine. Like, it just seems like a complete fucking waste of time for me. I don't regret seeing it. I really don't. I don't either. I enjoy myself. I enjoyed it. I like superhero movies way more than you on them.

There is something about these characters at a base level. I'm like, you just don't give a shit. So, like, there's nothing you're going to get out of it. Yeah. No, just even just from like a world view of just like analyzing what they're doing and trying to achieve movie to movie, I feel like it's worthwhile. Like it's just kind of like a fascinating project of seeing this massive corporation just kind of with flop sweat going, oh fuck. Okay, shit. Okay.

Hold on. Hold on. We got this. We got this. And, you know, so much money is on the line. Like it's just fascinating. I don't know how you can't watch it. even if you're seeing like a train crash, like you just kind of are intrigued.

And not all of these are terrible. You know, some of these are good. And I do really enjoy what they were at least attempting to do here. Yeah, like the whole rise and fall angle of like them dominating everything for so long, then them stumbling and then whatever's going to happen with the R.D.J. stuff. Like, that's intriguing to me. Like, on a meta level. Yeah. Not intriguing enough for me to like, why.

it happening through the films themselves. Right, yeah, you can just look on Twitter. Like, maybe I'll get like, you know, if the, if the real life Disney success or failure story becomes interesting enough for me, then maybe I might want to check out the films themselves, right? I don't feel like I need to do that as it's happening in a theater where I can't even, like, you know, make snarky comments out loud at it. that seems like a big waste of time

what if they got Hanukkah to direct doomsday would you 1,000% I would see it yes what do you mean of course that's a no brainer that sounds like the most interesting thing that could ever happen

I think they should go for that angle I think that'd be really cool yeah he's like 90 now yeah he could do it he's old yeah what is his age 83 well that was close he's getting there

I wonder if he's got one movie left in him. Well, this is his last one? Happy End in 2017. And he was supposed to do like a mini series or something after that and then it fell through. No. I hate it when these like big auteur, you know, art house directors are like, okay, you can't make a movie, but make this mini series. Like I don't want to see a miniseries. No, he wanted to. And then that just like didn't happen because it might not have gotten funding. Like it got scrapped. I don't think it was his decision. Which is so unfortunate.

There are any very specific projects that people seem to care about in the form of like a miniseries, like an adolescence or something that catches that sightguise we're talking about. Yeah. I mean, he also like he teaches at a film school in Austria. Okay. I think that's his main job. His directing is a side gig. I don't know if he's still doing that.

I don't know. Maybe we should ask the paparazzi to check in on Michelle Hanukkah. We should get him on the podcast. Oh my god. Yeah. He doesn't speak English. Well, let's get someone to translate. Okay.

Funny Games directed by Michelle Hanukkah. I call him Hanky Chan. I feel like that's an easier way to anglicize it. That's definitely easier. You know what? And it kind of took off because there's a huge overlap between fans of him and people who watch my channel. because just, I don't know, not that many people talk about him, I guess.

So whenever I see on the internet, someone says Hanky Chan, like in the Criterion subreddit or something, I'm like, eh, I see you. Yeah, he's a very, very interesting director. And I love not only how meticulous and perfectionist he wound up becoming over the years, but also he's got very bold and interesting ideas about what he would like to communicate in a film and how he challenges audience members. Anyway, Funny Games is an Austrian film from 1997. It premiered at Cannes Film Festival.

And at con and even after con, it wound up getting pretty mixed reactions. It's a pretty divisive film. And 10 years later, he remade it into a U.S. film, a shot-for-shot remake of his. own film one decade later, the first of its kind. Nobody's ever done that before. And yeah, it's, uh, I get, yeah, what, what the hell did you guys think about?

I think we can talk about both movies at the same time. I don't think it makes sense to like section. It would be hard not to. Exactly. With how similar they are, I guess. Yeah. Um, I had seen the American one US before, but not the original, I guess, version. Had you seen either of these, Jake?

Was this your first time with both? No, this is my first time with both. I am familiar with Hanukkah. I've seen, let's see, Cache. I really love Amor. I forgot I'd seen that, but that's his Normie masterpiece, actually. Yeah, it would make sense why it's my favorite one of his. Actually, I had Cache, I think is my favorite. Code Unknown.

Nice. And now these two films. Yeah. So this is my first time. First impressions? At first I was kind of like, what's his creative inspiration for wanting to set this in the US, like so badly. But doing some reading, I found that quite interesting, like his justification for it.

And this whole slant to these movies where they're almost like anti-movies, where it's using like the language of cinema to like set up things and like purpose. like upset you for the nature of the commentary that it's going for there's even like a piece of trivia that's funny um where it said during the production Hanukkah said that if the film was a success it would be because audiences had misunderstood the meaning behind it which i think is such a like funny interesting kind of bold approach to a film like that that's wild i don't know if i can think of another movie with like that kind of like attitude to it but yeah i I find it disturbing.

I do think he has actually made like an incredible horror movie. I know he says like he wasn't intending for it to be that way with like the commentary angle and him wanting it to be set in the US specifically for the, he wanted American audiences to watch it. But correct me if I'm wrong, Adam, you know a lot more about these movies than me. You haven't said anything incorrect. Yeah, but wanting the American audiences to, because of the commentary of it being about the violence and the indulgence.

in media and how disgusted he is by that like voyeurism and voyeurism is also a big part of cachet from memory that's clearly something he finds intriguing and to put into his stories so that kind of like convinced me like okay because you were just saying like he hasn't made a movie in a while and he's getting up there it's like a it's like a big commitment to make a movie let alone make the same movie 10 years later the same movie shot for shot and I'm kind of curious how everyone feels about if they have a preference to which one they prefer. I do. I think there is one I prefer over the other.

I think that would be interesting to bring up as we go along. But Jake, initial impressions, because I have no idea how you feel about this. Yeah, I hated it. Hey. Nice. Which one did you hate more? And I mean that, you know, I mean that with affection, but also what the fuck? What the what?

Like, come on. What do you mean? Come on. I was like, is this a spite recommendation? No. I was doing it because I wanted to watch it. I was not whether or not, I was not thinking about what you would be thinking by recommending. Okay.

Okay. I'm slightly less mad now. I apologize. Can you blame someone for that interpretation? They really? Like with the... No. You know, I,

I, it was fascinating and a fascinating, a very unpleasant experience. Adam, did you say this was your favorite? It might be. Movie? Well, my favorite Hanukkah. Okay. Yeah. How many, how many times have you seen it?

Well over 10, the U.S. version. I feel, I'm curious to know what you, what you really love about this film because I can see like what, like, it's definitely well made. It's a really effective movie. It's very harrowing and intense. But I also found myself very, very bored through a lot of it once I kind of got what it was doing. You know what I mean? I watched the 97 one first.

And I felt like, I think another problem, too, is that it's a very notorious movie. And a lot of people talk about it in terms of its quote unquote gimmick, which, is, you know, the... Well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We can do... Are we going to spoil it now? Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. I mean, we can.

We just want to, like, make sure we say it. No, no, no, no, no. I'll wait to talk about that. But I think I knew certain parts of it already. So it didn't really come as a surprise and it felt very much like, oh, this is it. Like, this is the point that is being made. And I get why it was divisive. And I don't want to be someone who's just like, well, this is, you know, with treating me like I'm dumb or bad because, you know, I enjoy violence in films or something like that.

I don't want to be that way about it, you know, but it did feel to me like I understood the point that the film is making. And it felt like it was just kind of like rubbing my nose in the subject. And I watched an interview with Hanukkah that he basically was like, I want to do that. Yeah, yeah. And I want to manipulate the audience and make you feel bad. And if I'm not upsetting people, I'm not doing my job. And he said that the reaction it can was super gratifying because people were pissed about it and were arguing and debating. Well, half of them.

Yeah, yeah. So I was like, okay, so you just kind of wanted to do this. And there was a telling moment in his... interview, I thought, where he said that the intellectual, and I'm paraphrasing, but he said, the intellectuals were mad at the film because they felt like it was saying violence, you know, like it was saying its point over and over and over again. But to me, it's different when you experience it. And I think I get what he was going for from that angle.

It's one thing to be like, we are susceptible to manipulation and we enjoy violence on screen. And it's like, yeah, I enjoy certain violence on screen. You know, we all do. We all love violence on screen, et cetera. But, you know, when you're confronted with images that are very realistic or, you know, like, it's just like I understand what violence is outside of, you know, a movie screen. So it just kind of felt like, I get it, man. Like, yeah, I think there, it is weird how we fetishize violence on screen.

But I don't really see much beyond what you're doing here with that. And also it kind of felt like you're still making a very effective, manipulative thriller. That's exciting. And, you know, he also said in that same interview, like, it's been reclaimed in a cult, way by people who I didn't really want to reclaim it that way, you know, like the people who love it because it's just torture porn or whatever. And it's like, so what is the, what is the point of, you know, doing this? You know, if you're trying to make a point, but also ultimately you're kind of giving into the point itself. Like, I don't know. Maybe I'm not articulating,

titiculate myself well. That is a large part of the point is him using his tricks to manipulate the audience, right? And so him, and, What I really enjoyed about watching it this time. So I'd seen the Funny Games US version over 10 times or whatever. I had seen the Austrian one once. This is the first time that I'd seen them both in like quick succession. And it was really interesting noting the differences between the two, which even just watching the Austrian first one first this time, I was like, okay, here's a difference, just because I knew the American one. so well. So watching it with that understanding especially, the changes that he makes along the way.

And some of them are subtle, some of them are more explicit, but they're all, well, most of them, the majority of them are ways where he's essentially like fine-tuned his craft over a decade, whether that be just from having more connections and budget and resources or just from having learned or, you know, been self-critical of his own film and introspective, like, him watching that and being like, okay, here's what I would change about this. So I really enjoyed that aspect. To bring that into your point, the manipulation and how good he is at manipulating audiences, it has to be effective in that way in order to make his point, right?

And the movie that I get out of it, it's one that I find interesting that he is, making that point but it's not like that's the experience of the movie for me like it can exist in both ways where it is a really super effective thriller but in a way where he he is quite literally able to explicitly break the fourth wall in this film without getting too spoilery yet I guess I mean we could at any point in time but he's able to do that and yet still reel you back in and And watching the film and, you know, experiencing it in that way, it's a real testament to how skilled he is as a filmmaker to be able to do that. Because any other film that would try to do that, it would be like, okay, you've lost me sort of thing, right?

But throughout the film, or at least in my experience, you know, despite him doing that, he's still able to present these characters in such a, not just shocking, but like, brutal way from performances to the makeup and hairstyling to the lighting, all of these elements of filmmaking that he understands are tricks. And he said throughout his career, even, you know, independently of this film, he has a quote something along the lines of like films are 24 lies per second at the pursuit of some greater truth. I probably paraphrase that. But like he's, he's very much felt that way about cinema, is that he's essentially like a magician in a way, right? Like a illusionist.

Like he's actively tricking and lying to people. And so he as a, you know, character is fascinated by not only his ability to do that, but the experience of the audience as he's making his films. Sorry if that was a bit long-winded, but my thoughts are kind of scattered a little bit. No, that makes sense. This is weirdly reminding us or me of our discussion on Starship Troopers, you know, where we're talking about the different way audiences interpret it, but on its face. You could have both.

It's a comment here on propaganda, but it's also everyone just loves it because it's like a cool action film. It's good as what it's doing, and it feels kind of similar here, like a real exercise in hopelessness. Like the stomach drops I feel from not as much when I've, like, I'd, like, I. actually wound up watching them pretty close to each other. I was going to pace them out, but I was enjoying what you were saying, Adam, like comparing the differences between them. But the first one, the 97 one I watched first, and that did emotionally affect me more just because it's been a while since I'd seen it. And I couldn't remember little details towards the second half and stuff like this.

But yeah, I didn't find it repetitive in the way Jake did. I found it quite sickening in the way I think it was going for. I don't know about the if you interpret it as sort of a nihilistic kind of message in there like at the end of it with um obviously what the film is going for and how negative it is um this isn't like the typical home invasion film you don't breathe your strangers or like a panic room

it's a very against type and I think it's probably the best home invasion Yeah. Film I've seen as far as, like, taking the sickening concept and showing it to you in a disturbingly realistic way. Yeah, really, really fucked up film. Well, you know, I just, like, I totally see where you guys are coming from, but I also, I can't help feeling like I want more there, you know, besides like, like, I felt a bit frustrated watching it, like, okay, I get at a certain point in the film, I was like, all right,

I get it. You're just kind of like, you're going against convention. You're trying not to let the audience enjoy the thrill of them fighting back or, you know, or violence in a cathartic way. You know, it has to be very gruesome and painful. I'm totally fine with that. I'm very interested in how he depicts violence in his movies and he's very, like, intentional about the subject and has a lot to say.

But I don't think that it was conveyed very interestingly. in this film and I felt a lot of like, it just kind of felt like he was sneering at the audience at certain points with literally the villains of the film, like looking at the camera. Oh, I'm sorry, is the spoilers? All right, spoiler time, everybody. We're spoiling the movie.

Spoiler section. Watch the movie. I love it. Okay. I think people should watch it, even though I didn't enjoy it. Watch the 2007 one. That's my favorite.

I think that when the characters are turning and winking at the camera, Like, it is very much like an obvious. And this was interesting, actually. The interview I watched, Hanukkah said that he'd been developing this story, like a home invasion thriller, since like the 60s. And that the last part, and correct me if I'm wrong at him, but the last part he developed of this film was the meta commentary, winking at the camera stuff. Yeah, he added that in after. And there are images that feel, it just felt very obvious to me. Like, okay, I get what you're doing.

Why are you so, like, gleeful and just, like, enjoying this? I felt very, like, sadistic, and that's nothing wrong with the filmmaker toying with, like, it's interesting because usually we're used to filmmakers toying with the audience and being sadistic. and us going along, like them not pointing it out, you know, that's part of the, like, the artifice and the fun of being manipulated and giving yourself over to a director. But this was Hanukkah manipulating us and going like, oh, don't you, aren't you so guilty for, for like being manipulated and enjoying this violence? And you really want these people to be killed, don't you?

And it's like, yeah, I do. I do want them to fucking shoot the bad guys. Like, what's so bad about the, you know? Like, I do want to see that and I don't feel bad about that. I just feel like you want me to feel bad about it and I feel, you know, I get that it is an interesting connection that we have to film violence. But I personally just don't see it as like a moral, a huge moral problem. And I think that it was really just the tone of how it was approached. I felt like condescended to almost.

I actually agree with that to a degree. But I got more of like an emotional experience out of it. Like it felt like to me it enhanced like the whole package of it with the, it feels like you're experiencing a similar kind of psychological torture that these characters are bringing. And yeah, just kind of reveling in that sadism and this like sick cat and mouse game that is being played in front of you. And it's like, even as the audience, you're not safe. And these like weird conversations they're having towards the end about like, what is it exactly like the media that are like on the, boat and it's like all the layers of like matter commentary that are like stuffed in there

that was like consistently interesting and intriguing and disturbing to me which is what i'd want from a film like this yeah i don't i don't feel as though one needs to uh agree or have the perspective that that it's like a pressing issue like what he's trying to get at i just i find his the director's perspective on this, not like, oh yeah, this is like an important thing that needs to be addressed. Thank you for talking about it or anything. I just find it interesting that that's his angle. Like, I don't necessarily have to agree with that to get the experience of the film. I just find it super fucking cool that, you know, as you pointed out, other movies are manipulative, but they don't explicitly state that they're doing that. I think it's super cool that he was able to do that

and still be just as effective in his manipulation. The tools that he has at his disposal to make these tricks, to manipulate the audience in his own way, the fact that he's still able to do that is just a testament to how masterful he is. I think that just like, especially seeing the differences between the two films and just like these tiny improvements that he's made along the way, like, you know, even with the child's performance, like, there's no, there's really no other director

that is so consistently great at like directing children to get great performances or just being so detail oriented every step of the way. I just, I'm in awe with how he presents his films. I was kind of wondering about that with the kid stuff, especially in the Austrian version. I felt like the violence towards the kids seemed a bit more intense. So I was kind of wondering about like the, how is he getting these performances out of this like child? How do they ethically put this together? Because it's, it is disturbing to watch, that alone the trauma, I guess, that the actors had to go through.

Like, I was reading some of them about like the lead woman, like crying for 20 minutes. minutes before they'd like start a shot and they'd have to do the same shot again and again and again. It's just like, wow, that is a commitment to something. Yeah. Pretty like sickening. Yeah, he's crazy. I mean, I think I will admit, I think whichever movie you see first, it's probably just going to stick with you more simply because they are so, so similar, just shot by shot. But I saw the Austrian one first and then watching the American one, I do think it's a considerable step down simply because it's like a, it feels like an experiment in the same way. Have you guys seen Psycho and the Gus Van Sant Psycho?

Yes. But I mean, not the same director. I haven't seen the remake. Yeah, yeah, different directors, but just trying to do like a shot for shot remake. And this, you know, because there were a lot of mannerisms and things like the way Naomi Watts doing the same dialogue as the actress in the Austrian version, it comes across as like stilted in the dynamics. It just felt very artificial in a way I didn't feel it was as artificial in the Austrian one. And also like seeing these movies, I watched them very close to each other just like you did Alex, but seeing them back to back like that. I felt less of a gut feeling or less manipulated, I guess, on the second watch and just kind of looking at it, the craft on display of like, yeah, that's interesting, you know, these shot choices, whatever, the acting. But it is such a thin story and very like, I don't like that it seems to be looking down on the genre of like in all sorts of genre filmmaking. like, oh, this isn't, you know, this is just manipulation and I can do that.

And it's like... I mean, he did. He's allowed to say that when he did. I mean, there are some effective manipulations, but I also felt extremely frustrated and bored during certain sequences of like, why don't the characters do this? This is very silly, you know, like really choices that in another, in any other genre film, we'd be going like, oh, yeah, that was dumb. Why would the characters do that?

But because Hanukkah is making a statement, you know, about the genre and about violence, then we can go, well, that's the point. It's supposed to frustrate you. So even if it is effective in some ways and ineffective in other ways, you can easily be like, well, you know, he's trying to, you know, to frustrate the audience and go against expectations. You know, so it felt very hit and miss to me in that regard. And after a certain point, again, like once it becomes like, if you're making trauma porn to try to critique trauma porn, then it's like, where does the, and we were talking about, I think actually the Starship Troopers was a really good comparison because I think Starship Troopers is like really effective in the satire. Like it is subtle, but it is very, I don't, I feel like that's saying more.

about like fascism and as a sure a lot more to say personally to me than this film which is just kind of about itself and very like again these are none of these are like this is an objectively bad film because it is like it is well made there are qualities

that are very good to it but it just felt to me like a massive just a huge frustration and I felt very upset and maybe that's what he wanted but I don't think that's I don't think I was upset in the way he necessarily wanted me to be upset, you know?

What were some examples of like your, why didn't the character do this moment? Oh, like when they're walking out, when she's talking to the characters who come over in the boat. Yeah. And, you know, because of course we're trained in other movies be like, well, fight back. You could take on these two guys, even though you're smaller and whatever. Like there are things that I think could have been done and that the characters could have done that would have been interesting or changed. Like I don't know.

It just felt like again. And also the characters aren't really characters. Like we don't really know anything about them, which gives it all to the performances to lend whatever it is to the film. Like I again, at the end of the day, what I felt like to me was just like you, this is an interesting experiment. I get what you're saying. Like, all right, we see blood on the TV screen. You know, Americans where we like our violence and we're very stupid. Yes, thank you.

I understand. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but I just, I had such a gut reaction. I'm sorry. Okay. That's intriguing that the American on the cast likes it the least when you're the target audience. Yeah, maybe. This is what's supposed to happen, though. Right? It's no mistake that the US version was much more poorly received.

You know, yeah, I noticed that the difference between like the ratings on IMDB and the matter score and whatnot. Yeah. It is significantly lower for Funny Games US. Yeah. I don't know. I actually do prefer the Austrian version myself. I found it slightly more effective in certain ways. Can you give some examples? I just want to, I'm curious about this. Um, one of the more distracting elements to me was, I guess, uh, not, not to criticize their performance in any way, but just the nature of having Naomi Watts and Tim Roth, um, yeah, like two Brits doing the, uh, American accent and whatnot. I thought she's Australian. Was just more, more immersion breaking to me than these, you know, Austrians or Germans or whatever they are, um, who I didn't particularly recognize, uh, I just felt kind of more immersive to me. and there was something, like, very on Hollywood about it and very sort of like rough around the edges and a bit more scrappy, which made it feel a bit more believable in the 97 version.

And just like little details, like when one of the shots standing out in my head is when the kid escapes and he tries to climb over the gate. I just, I just like bought the kid in the 97 version, like not being able to climb over the gate. Oh, yeah. Well, there are different types of gates, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I feel like the kid in the 2007 one could have actually made it over that. I know this is like a nitpick, but watching them so close to each other, I was thinking that sort of thing. Okay.

Well, because I think that part of what was communicated in that escape scene was not just like, oh, is the kid able to do this? He was having a thought process going through his head of like, okay, which way are they going to chase me, right? Which is why he doesn't go out the front door initially and goes up the stairs. So that was my interpretation of that. Oh, yeah. I guess I also agree with what Jake was saying about the, I guess the dialogue kind of just flowed a bit better for me in the 97 one. I just kind of bought the characters and bought into their family dynamic a bit stronger.

And this is more just kind of like gut reactions because you do kind of have to go down to nitpicks when it is, when they are this similar, I just felt like when I'm given these two options of the same shot and these two different mixes. of characters and actors, I was, I feel, more often enjoying the 97 version. I feel like I'm more at parody with the villainous characters. I think they're excellent and the best part of both of them. Again, I kind of liked how, in the 97 version, how un-Hollywood they are. They just look like these two pretty normal dudes you could just see on the street and like the

hair and everything and that costume design. I found it like a lot freaky. just with like his body type like coming out of the water and coming out that darkness chasing that kid it was like give me tingles down my spine it was freaking me out um which i just don't really get in the same way from the 2007 version although i'd still find those characters compelling and freaky in both of them especially with that costume design too they're like all white in the gloves and this weird cyclical implication of like it was cool watching the 2007 one right after the 97 one with the the opening and like the first time you see you're like and they're talking about wise why are they acting so weird and then like but but by the end where it's revealed that the god knows how many times they've gone through this cycle and they're just doing it again and again um how kind of disturbing and freaky that is um I really like that as far as like a horror angle is concerned um but yeah what was some of the the major differences that really

win you over to the 2007 version because even like down to changing the breed of dog to be like a more unanimously loved. You know, it's a golden retriever in the 2007 one. It's an Alsatian in 97. Yeah. Just things like that seemed like quite intentional. Yeah,

it seems like more, you know, innocent and then also, you know, gives the family like a more bougie appearance. Yeah. So for your comments about like the actors, I prefer Naomi Watts and Timroth and,

both villains. I guess for the mother character, Naomi Watts and I forget her name the German or Austrian actress. Like I would say that those are like pretty close for me. They both have incredible strengths. Like both of those performances are fantastic. For the two villains, I feel like their characters are just so much more fleshed out

through their performances in the US version. I feel like they're more like you know, and interesting and they work better for them kind of existing in this way where they're playing with the audience as if they're acting in a different genre of film than the family characters are. I feel like what they brought to the roles worked so much better in the US version. And it might, you know, it's really difficult to judge these kinds of things with performance. because none of us speak German, right?

The language barrier is always going to do something, whether it's adding or subtracting. There's plenty of movies that I've watched where I've thought like, oh, that's a great performance, and then someone who speaks the language natively will be like, actually, it's not. And it's like, oh, damn, you know, like, I thought I, you know, from what I could gather based on, you know,

like body language and facial expressions, doesn't account for intonation or enunciation or, you know, the way that sentences can flow naturally. So that's always going to be difficult to judge. Well, yeah, that body language and the cheekiness of the fourth wall breaks, especially from the Austrian version with the Paul character. That was like, that hit harder to me each time. It did feel a bit more kind of like cheeky and sickening. and other like examples of performance moments that really stood out that when the dad in that like 10 minute long shot like starts breaking down and he's been like so sort of like stoic up until that point i thought the the austrian version's performance there was exceptionally good um and a great like kind of character moment and the same with the mother when you know that's so interesting yeah i really like the dad in the austrian version when you know and that that line where he says forgive me before she leaves out the window and then her reaction to that.

That's like another performance highlight to me, especially in the 97 version. Yeah, when it comes to performances, like, you could literally say the exact same words and then just swap movies and you'd have my opinion. It's so weird, but it's very interesting at least. I guess, yeah, so I'm hoping you agree with me on this one at the very least. Like the child actor was way, way, way better in the US version, or at least, how he was directed. Like, way more emotional and disheveled and, like, you could really feel just from the performance, like, oh, this kid is scared and trying to prevent his own death.

And he understands, like, the gravity of the situation. There's also really interesting, I guess the performance is a part of it. But, like, the way that he directed the child, when I was watching the Austrian 97 version, because I'm so familiar with the U.S. version probably. There were moments that stood out to me, not just like, okay, yeah, he should be crying more. I don't really believe that he's scared for his life. But the physical performance or like even the blocking, right?

So when the golf swing happens and the dad's leg is attacked or whatever, Hanukkah fixed a weird kind of like pacing, editing issue involving the child in that scene. if you watch the 97 version, when it cuts to the dad on the floor, the kid is like already on top of him. In the 2007 version, it gives it a little bit more space. It's a very subtle change, but there's like half a second more. You can see the kid from standing position, then go on to the dad. And it feels so much less clunky. It feels so much more natural and smooth.

When the kid is about to escape and he decides, like, no, I'm not going to go out the front door. I'm going to go up the stairs or whatever. In the Austrian version, he's not really selling it. He's not really, like, it just seems like a kid awkwardly not knowing what to do on set sort of thing. I'm like, okay, weird. I'm like not really into the emotions of it. In the 2007 version, he might have directed him differently, but the shot is so dark that you can barely make out what's happening

other than just like the implication of him going up the stairs. Like the sound design is there. And I find that really, really interesting. And it's not like, oh, he just did that to fix that shot. Because consistently the outdoor shots and the dark scenes are way, way, way, way darker in the U.S. version, which I find particularly interesting if we're going to stay on the same subject of like filmmaking tricks. You know, if the goal is to be like hyper manipulative, I find that really cool for him to do that in a horror movie. when the kid is when he makes it to the

neighbor's house in the Austrian version he's running away makes it to the neighbor's house you see the other character fucking what's his name Paul yeah Paul walking up from the water in the Austrian version the kid

you know thinks he's going to like knock on the door first he opens it and then goes inside watching that especially because I'm so familiar with the US version it was like, okay, something's really missing here. Like, I swear to God, like, why did he just open the door? He fixed that in the U.S. version. He made it so that the kid has a small moment where, instead of just going through the door, he stops.

He stops for a second. And just from that subtle character moment, direction moment, we know that the kid is surprised by the door being open. We know that the kid is surprised by the door not being locked. It adds an extra layer, right? It adds another layer of like tension and fear like, oh, okay, why is the door unlocked? And if we see the character react to it in that way, that helps the audience understand that, not just the character, but the situation. Tiny, tiny little subtle details along the way that do so much for my experience.

That just, oh yeah, even like when the kid sees the trail of water that he left, the lights turn on. because Paul enters the house. The kid is now realizing, oh shit, because he came out of the water, he left a trail. He's going to get cut. Austrian version, the kid, you know, we're being told that the kid realizes this, and then the kid takes off his shoes and socks and pants to try and not leave the trail. Like, that is being inferred by the actions that the kid has taken. But we don't feel that the kid believes it.

And so in the U.S. version, there is so much more of. a sense of urgency from the performance. He's doing the action quicker. The kid through his performance and facial expression and like this anxiety that he's communicating, we understand that the kid knows that there's a level of urgency towards doing that. Like he's being chased. He's being hunted. He's about to be killed, right? He needs to get rid of this extra threat, this extra risk of leaving a trail. So he's trying to get that shit off quickly, right? Tons of subtle differences. That that just make the experience so much better for me and make it like, oh, yeah, this is why I am so much more affected by the US version.

Like there's little, he left a trail along the way directing. And it's so interesting to think about for me that you can essentially film the same thing shot for shot and have so many tiny considerations that do so much lifting, at least for my experience, and I know that might not be the same experience for everybody. The lighting, lighting so much more incredible in this film, the way that, especially when the lights are turned off, when they start explaining the rules to the family, how, you know, the lights are turned off in that room and the only light we're getting is essentially from the windows. They had a line earlier saying, you know, that it's getting darker outside, so it's like kind of overcasty. The

way that there's so much more depth and texture to the lighting in this film, which is interesting because it's complemented by a much more sterile and clinical set design than the original, which, yes. Yeah, it's like those two things kind of like swapped. In the original film, the set design, less sterile and clinical, but also kind of like less bougie too. it really feels like, kind of just like, I don't know, like a normal cottage. It doesn't really reflect like that much of like a higher income status for the Austrian version.

Whereas like in the US version, it's very like, ooh, this is bougie. Like the roads are bigger. Like everything looks newer and cleaner and yeah, again, like sterile. What was the commentary behind the like bouginess thing? because that's a, I'm still, I still don't really have a solid interpretation of the opening scene. I'm curious what you think, where they're, they're talking about classical music, like, so, feeding into what you're saying about this. They're, like, they have a boat behind their range rover.

They're, like, a clearly high class, have lots of money talking about classical music. What do you think that's saying through picking this type of family, choosing, like, a lakehouse setting and this level of wealth? I wasn't really picking up beyond just the horror and the, it gives you like a good excuse for big houses that are detached from each other, you know, so you can have scary things happen and loud things happen without alerting other people. Well, I think part of the commentary, especially for deciding to do a US version and making that really strong, is that he's trying to get at the idea of, he's not only trying to talk about

the types of media Americans consume on a basis of like violence, but also on a basis of just how, you know, like, isolated and like uncurious a lot of American sensibilities are. Like, so many Americans don't have a fucking passport, right? Like so many Americans just believe that they were born in the most perfect place to ever exist. Why would they want to go anywhere else? And that's reflected in the media choices that Americans have. Like, and, you know, a lot of people get pissed off when I mentioned this, but it's very, very true.

It's fixing itself in recent years. Like, we're seeing, you know, things like parasite and like squid games. And, you know, we're seeing a lot more foreign language films and shows kind of introducing themselves into American culture in a way that is definitely not how things were in 1997. 2007, right? Where four kids had to like call Onigiri jelly donuts because you just couldn't possibly have kids knowing that another food

existed. You had to change it. You had to localize it. What are you going to do? Have a kid know that you can have a rice ball? Like it was a big problem and it's still a problem but not as much as it used to be. And you could make kind of like an analogy for these like kind of like bougie

you know, this affluent white family just doing their thing without a care in the world. If you look at some of Hanukkah's other filmography, like Cashay, you'd know that like he's very conscious of the idea of, you know, I guess we could even say like privilege and having yourself being isolated from consequences that other people might be experiencing and just not giving a fuck because you're fine. Like the sort of like fuck you got mine mentality. And that could be, you know, something that is purely economic, but also, you know, sometimes geographical and cultural.

I think that he is making some sort of commentary on, you know, Americans being kind of just like in their own little bubble and having these other characters showing up and, you know, manipulating and playing games with them and just being like, no, fuck you. We're going to, like, torture you a bit. In a way, he's kind of, like, doing that as the director. Like, I don't know if that's the exact thing to take away from it. But, like, him sort of, you know, like him putting this movie overseas,

it's the only American movie he's ever made. It's the only English language film he's ever made. He doesn't even speak English, but he felt it very important to do this. Like, he's essentially, you know, showing up with, like, a Trojan horse. And in some ways, you could say that that's, what's happening to the characters in the film, right? I think that there is kind of some commentary there. Well, maybe that's why I think also the American version was, is way worse received

and also why I have such a negative reaction to it because it does feel like, and I think you're expressing it too of like, you know, well, these stupid Americans, they don't really know real culture. I'll make a good, you know, movie. that'll kind of like, you know, make fun of them a little bit. And you kind of kind of see it too. And I think your comparison to like how it looks different is really interesting because I think it looks worse, actually.

I thought the American one looked worse, but in a way that was like thematically resonant because it looks like a Nancy Myers movie. It's like the super brightly lit. Like it looks like it's going to be a rom-com, you know, like at the beginning of the movie. but I think that attitude of like this this European man being like well

here let me I don't even have to change my movie at all I just want you Americans to see how like how dumb you guys are and how much you like violence it's like hey you know like that I'm not opposed to like doing that or anything but I think that it is to me

just like, it just felt like, okay, yeah, all right. I don't know. It's hard because I do understand where you guys are coming from of like there is such interesting technique on display, but I still am not convinced beyond the kind of like, it feels like a spite movie. And that's maybe why I'm like, maybe I'm the target audience, you know, but I'm a dumb American. I like my genre thrillers and I do not think that's, I'm not ashamed of that. You know, like, and it does feel like a sense of, I feel a sense of a lack of curiosity, I guess, in Hanukkah going, I'm going to remake the film and just put a golden retriever in there and it's America now and it's about you Americans. And it's like, no, it was always, it was always about that. just didn't have the ability to make it that way.

Right. The first film is more like a proof of concept. Okay. I understand that. But then to like even the dialogue feels very stilted and awkward because it does feel like we're just like roughly translating from German. Like in those moments when she's talking to Eggman, like, you know, like she calls him young man, like young man. And it's just like certain. phrases that she uses, it's like, well, I don't think an American would say that, especially in 2007 or, you know, like, there are details that kept pulling me out of the movie like that.

Okay. Like, it feels like you're just directly translating from the German and it feels kind of less authentic and a lot like, I know about you people. like this is just take the pill and understand that yeah I don't know I'm just rambling do you think this is yeah this is um really like striking me in a unique way I don't think any movie we've ever spoken about on this podcast has with the nature of our different cultural backgrounds from where we grew up in the world and where we're gravitating you know like American doesn't like any of it. I'm gravitating more towards the European version and the Canadian.

I guess it feels that American, you know, your neighbors, you definitely understand the American culture a lot deeper than I would. I've only been there a couple of times or not. So I don't know how much of that's playing into like the way we're leaning with how we feel towards it. That's really interesting to me. Oh, yeah. Do you think that there's, when you're talking about like, you know, some things maybe being, like, feeling like translated versions of the Austrian, do you think that there might also be some commentary on the concept of American remakes? Because how many, how many American films are just presented as though they are their own film, but then you find out later?

No, this is actually just a remake of another thing that came out a decade or less ago from another country, right? Yeah, I don't know where to draw the line with that one. I think that's probably like there. I don't think he did it to the point of like, ooh, I'm going to intentionally mistranslate this or anything like that. But I think that he did that with the awareness that like if that were to happen, that it's not even necessarily something that's a mistake. Do you know anything about the approach to directing all of these, I guess, mostly British, but you know, English-speaking actors? despite not being able to speak English. Like, I'm very curious about that process.

I'm assuming he had a translator. Right, yeah. I would love to see more behind the scenes shit for this film. What's really unfortunate is it seems like this film out of, like, his entire filmography is the most, like, forgotten. And, like, it's missing from some box sets. Fucking Criterion released a Blu-ray of the 97, did not release. anything of this film. It might be a rights issue because this is like, I think owned by Warner Brothers.

Thanks, David. Yeah, so I don't know. There's not as many like special features or anything for this film. Like, I would love to just see him directing. But I guess there aren't really any of his films where you actually see him like on set. You always just see him kind of doing interviews after the fact. I don't think he's ever had anyone making like a documentary alongside the production of the film. So I guess we'll never see it. But yeah, I'd be really curious to find out. I'm just assuming he had a translator.

That would make sense. Yeah, someone that he trusted to be able to like communicate the details because he's a very detail oriented director for sure. And I assume they watched the original two for inspiration. That would have helped. Yeah, the sound design is so much more. fucking textured in this film. So much more going on. When you say so much more like it, it's like a noticeable difference for me.

Like you give a bit like different scores type thing. Like you enjoy one so much more. Yeah, these are two different scores. Interesting. Like they're both great. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just trying to hold back and feel like it almost kind of sounds like nitpicks or they probably sound like nitpicks. With like what I'm saying.

But I'm just, I don't know, I just gravitate more towards the European being one. Sure. Something about it just feels more. They're like, I don't know, the, the realism of it, which I feel is like quite important for the gut punches to hit where they are. It just felt more kind of organic and just flow better to me. Yeah, I just, you could say the exact same thing talking about the separate movie,

just for my perspective. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It would be interesting to really like fine-tune. exactly what makes us feel that way. I think we'd have to do like frame by frame with each other maybe yeah maybe when you're over yeah yeah maybe not yeah it's uh okay here's some some might call me autistic um okay but there are some uh there's some Goofs and Gaffs that I noticed in the original film that were not in the 2007, some bad ADR where the dialogue isn't synced to his lips. Timestamp is 19 minutes and 30 seconds for that one.

Anybody curious? There's more bad ADR at 37 minutes. I wrote down my timestamps in my notes. There's a boom mic in the reflection of the window at 45 minutes and 14 seconds. Yeah, sure. like people can call these things nitpicks but when you have a director like Hanukkah where it's clear that he cares about those things enough

to improve upon them over time like he's one of the most detail oriented filmmakers ever like he does care about those things I don't know if it's I don't know if it's fair to call those things insignificant when the director himself is putting so much emphasis on having those things being

corrected over the course of his filmography. You know, I'm not, I'm not going to be like, oh, it ruins the movie or anything. But knowing what he's going for and knowing how he's improved himself over the years, you know, even the overhead shots at the beginning of the film, films from a helicopter, there's a shakiness in the 1997 film that feels not as precise, right? Like there's there's like a bumpiness See I kind of like that Yeah exactly

Yeah exactly It depends on what kind of like Tony you want out of it I love those things too If it's you know Like a Harmony Kareen film Or castration movie part one Traps

You know like it really depends on the genre But like a Hanukkah film I consider the improved Definitive version to be the one Where he's you know Showing off a bit more in terms of how he's able to, you know, whittle away those imperfections. And again, this is a movie about filmmaking.

This is about the tricks. This is about the methodology. But are they imperfections? I mean, that's how I feel like, you know, it just feels like it's different for a lot of them. Because like what is a perfection? You know, because to me, and I think it's telling that, you know, a lot of people just don't like it, the American remake as much as the original because to me it just feels

like, yeah, these tiny things don't matter as much as one might think. You know, while it may be technically correct to have the boom mic out of that shot, but maybe you're missing the immediacy of the particular way the light is hitting, you know, in this room or what, you know, it's like there's so many, like billions of tiny little factors and details that are just, you know, different and it changes everything and you can't really control. It just, I think what it was is that it's like a telling and very interesting. experiment in the fact that you just can't control so much in the filmmaking process.

And I think that's really fascinating. You just don't know what goes into it all the time. I would say that it's him showing that he is in control over time. I would say that it's him proving that he can have control over those things and how he's learned to have more control over those things and how he's become like a master at control. Like, I love those things. I love seeing someone be able to make those changes. Yeah, like, he has an awareness of his own work.

He has an awareness of, like, the experience of audience members even, you know, something I mentioned earlier, like, get the kid to pause just for a half second as he's opening the door. Then it communicates that he's surprised that the door is open. It communicates that the film knows that it's odd that the door is open, right? Well, it's funny. use that as an example because I actually when I was watching the American one I was thinking why did he pause is that's kind of weird

like that is he like having a moment of like why is he paused just go inside the house so I guess for you it communicated that but to me I was like oh okay it was like why was that there because he's surprised

and me yeah I didn't read that I just I read it as just like a weird I thought it was like an acting mistake or like an acting tick or something that was like oh that could have been a little smoother

or I don't know I like it's just funny because like these things that seem like corrections to you to me I was for some of them I'm like it makes it slightly worse or not even worse it's just like a different take I don't know

I I cannot believe that they would be, uh, like incidental, just having a familiarity with this director. Like, I, I know that it's intentional.

What about like some of the translation stuff? Because I do feel like the, I don't know, such a different experience reading the subtitles from a language. You don't understand that you were getting out earlier. Um, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember the,

I love that line in the 97 version, one of the fourth wall breaks saying that it's not even a feature film yet. I don't remember the, I remember the phrasing me a slightly different. in the 2007 iteration of that same scene. And there's at the few moments where the dialogue is kind of changed around or I guess... Yeah. Yeah, it's being translated into English.

And I was finding a lot of the phrasing or at least what the subtitles were saying I was preferring in the 97 iteration. That was one of the lines in particular. It was like, oh, it's kind of a bummer. They don't say that in 2007 as well. Well, maybe he learned that a feature film length is technically... around 40 minutes or so and that would have been an incorrect thing to sing. Well, there's another huge difference between these movies that I'm surprised you guys haven't pointed it out and it's a huge tonal shift.

I don't know if you guys are aware and I hate to sound like a broken record but the first movie came out in 1997. The remake came out in 2007. Oh, 9-11. Okay, okay. What world historical event might impact? The tone of 9-11 and the war in Iraq and Afghanistan clearly hugely affected the remake and I think that you can read it as such

You know, even it's everywhere Even the pause that the kid has It's like he was probably thinking about 9-11 He was probably thinking about 9-11 at that moment He was probably like, oh, the door is open, wait It's like, wait, wait, wait, what shouldn't I forget? Damn it. There you go.

Yeah Perfect song choice for the one song. Fucking perfect. The one song. For when the title drops and the freeze frame at the end. Scary song. I didn't know that cabin in the woods. I didn't know that was a reference to funny games, the title.

I love how in every Hanukkah film I can think of, and there might be like an exception somewhere earlier in his career. But like every single one that I can remember, all of his music is diagetic. Even if it's not from the same point in the film, it's from somewhere in the film. So like the opening title, music is from another part in the film.

So it's still dietic, right? Right. It's not, it doesn't exist as a separate entity. Which is really interesting because like this would be an opportunity where he could break that rule with what he's trying to get at idea-wise,

but he still doesn't. He always finds like a clever way to do it. It's like his weird little hyper fixation. I find that's very similar to Brasson. I think I read somewhere that Hanukho is very influenced by Brasson. Is that true? Yep. Okay.

It's interesting because I do feel like in the beginning of the movie, like stylistically, I'm like, oh, I see Brasson here. Like the way it lingers on the gate closing, like that's not just like foreshadowing. It's just like a very ominous thing. And like Brasson always is holding on doors being closed and you'll just sit there watching this closed door for a couple seconds. And also like the way things are cut to show like hands and feet, you know, just the we're not seeing everyone's face all the time, especially in that opening where it just shows her hands going through the CDs and then the dad changing his shoes and all that. I really liked that. It was very,

um, it is, I feel like Hanukkah is like a weird mix of Brasson and Hitchcock. I don't know if that makes sense. Right. Oh yeah. He's got, he's got both of them in there,

for sure. The weird like anti-Chakov's gun thing, the knife reingled action. I love that, actually. That was really funny. Yeah, it was a funny game.

Super dark. Did you like the, uh, the Space Ball's reference as well? yeah good space balls oh rewinding

yeah what a hack Hanukkah just stealing from space balls I actually like I actually think that's one of the best

scenes in the movie no other scene no other movie's done it in the same way it's just taking it to such an extreme you know just doubling that

double tripling down on the hopelessness of like giving giving you that like false hope and then just ripping away. Just, yeah, rolling around in the mud and the nihilism of it.

Do you think this was an inspiration for the movie Click starring Adam Sandler? Yes. Okay. What I realized on this viewing is that the fourth wall, ha ha, it's rewind time. That's what Will Smith was referencing. That's the climax of the movie. because like where you know I had seen the movies

well the US one especially like so many times and the whole thing just flows as like one piece to me I don't really think of it and like acts per se but like you know that's like pretty close to the end of the movie like that's that's the payoff is the rewind time is essentially what the climax of the film is like so interesting like that that's the moment that's what it's building up to

And it's, you know, it's designed in a way where people are going to fucking hate it. Intentional anti-climax, yeah. The more invested in the characters you are, especially if you're someone that, like, is not used to movies being more than, you know, tell a story and that's it, right? It's going to piss a lot of people off. This is not for Normies. This is the most, this is the most normie litmus test movie you could possibly have. I don't know if there's a better one.

That's funny because I feel like it is a normie art house entry. Is that offensive of me to say? I'm trying to offend people here. No, it feels it because I think maybe part of what's also skewing this is there's so many like, and I don't mean to sound, you know, mean or anything, but there are lots of like video essays about this on YouTube that aren't necessarily the most thought out and kind of. kind of very surface level of like, yes,

I agree. Did you know that this is actually a movie about how violence and media is, you know, we kind of like violence. And it's like, it's just very surface level. And I think that there is a lot of like a fan base around this movie that's like coming at it from a horror landscape of like,

ooh, this super edgy, exciting horror film. And this is kind of like their first entry into like, you know, the art house world maybe. So there are. are some pretty shitty takes. Yeah, here's a question. What country are those people from?

Who could know? Because I think they're participating in the art house experience, you know? Like, I think that's like a part of it is seeing the reactions to this film, right? I completely agree that, you know, there's very surface level takes. But the reason those exist is because this is a film that a lot of Americans saw, because it's got, you know, I guess not American, but like actors that they're familiar with. It's in English. You know, many people, you know, the marketing, the selling points would be like, oh, it's so disturbing and stuff like that, right? Like, that's the reason why these conversations exist about this movie in particular. And we don't see as many about other movies that, you know, could, you know, equally have this same sort of.

intrigue or conversation. Like this one's, this one does exist in this kind of almost like clickbaity way. Yeah. Where it's like, ooh, remember when this was a thing that you probably saw was in theaters, Americans?

Right. Yeah, it's literally, uh, in a watch mojo list of, it would be horror movies where they could actually happen. Yeah. Like that was like the title of it and stuff like that.

And these disturbing top 10 lists are the most disturbing film you've ever seen type thing. Yeah. Out of his entire filmography, if we're just going to go. you know, based on how many ratings a film has on IMDB and just assume like that's how many people saw it over time.

This one is almost number one. Number one is a more because that got nominated for five Oscars or something. And it's more recent to like more people would have been using IMDB. But like out of his entire filmography otherwise, like this one, you know, those two movies are just way above all the other ones in terms of how many people have like logged ratings. Like this one particularly a good amount

of people saw. I guess because of that horror genre overlap with it being in that kind of broader category than like a piano teacher or something like that. Yeah, horror genre. But also it's a shot for shot remake of a movie that already existed

that has half as many ratings on IMDB. Right? Like this is a part of it. It's it's he's also you know, making a commentary on American's willingness to see films that are not in the English language, right?

Like the art piece, the extension of the art piece is the conversation we're having right now. The extension of the art piece is how the film has resonated with audiences American and otherwise over time and how people talk about it and how many people have seen it. Like that's a part of the art piece. And I find that really cool.

You know, like other films that have done that include like Synecichy, New York for me, you know? Like, we're participating. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, it's interesting to compare this to Synecichy, New York. I feel like that's, I really love Synecichy. I don't see much comparison during these films. But I, because I feel like Synecichy is like has so many different things and it's not very didactic about what it's saying.

And this feels very like it has one thing. thing on its mind and it's going to tell you over and over. So get ready. And it's more of like an experiential thing. Like you have to experience it to get the message, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I've been very harsh on this film, but that's because I guess it is very effective.

But in a way that just really, yeah, upset me. I found it a bit too much. So... Yeah, that's fair enough. It's my take. Yeah. I loved it. Yeah.

What would you get a bit out of 10? Are we doing ratings? Yeah. Can I bring one last thing up? Because I just want to know if you have an interpretation on it. I find the conversation that the evil dudes are having on the boat towards the end quite interesting. But they're talking about matter and antimatter. And they bring up, isn't fiction real and have this argument about like fiction?

and if you have any interpretation to that, if it's just supposed to be them bullshitting about something completely like irrelevant to what's happening at hand and the nonchalant nature of how they just kind of push the Naomi Watts or another character just into the water and... Well, no, no, I think there is something there

because this is a film where, you know, Hanukkah has stated like the audience is a part of the movie, like the audience is the accomplice essentially to... Right. the killers. So in a way, there is validity to the argument that like the film exists, but it's not like separate from reality and that the characters in the film, you know, like that the way that we categorize or like compartmentalize ideas of like art and

characters and narratives. Like how does the brain process what the concept of like a person or human being is, right? Like a character we see in a film, like, that's a fiction, that's a lie. And so, yeah, like, it's really interesting that he is blurring the lines of fiction and reality. The way that I kind of perceive this film and, like, the characters inflicting the horrors onto other characters in this film, it reminds me of, like, the terrifier films. Like, the other way around.

watching the terrifier films I was kind of thinking of like funny games the complete inverse we're like

oh this character exists as an extension of the film like he's not a real character uh art the clown

is not like someone you would see in real it's not supposed to be necessarily like oh this could really happen he's toying at these characters and they're just

his subjects they exist within the film he exists not within the film Like, he is in the film, but he's not. He's like an extension of the audience. He's an extension of the director. I don't know if Damien Leone had those ideas in his mind when he was making the

terrifier films. But that's kind of how I experience it in part because of, you know, watching funny games and, you know, having my mind thinking of films and characters kind of in that way, like priming my mind to be open to that sort of. interpretation. So yeah, like even though they do exist within the confines of what we can technically call a film, it's getting it a lot more than that. Like some of them clearly, some of the characters clearly exist to be more like archetypical, if that's the way I say it. Like they belong in the film. And then other characters are kind of like piercing through the

film. Like almost remember those old like, Looney Tunes shorts where you would see like sometimes they do a hybrid live action and animation and they do these sketches where You'd see the artist's hand in the film drawing like in real time the characters and sometimes they would like fight with the pencil. That's kind of what's happening, right? Yeah, I can see that It's really cool. Yeah, that was cool them. Yeah, that was a meaty discussion. I wasn't meady quite sure it was going to be that long bit, damn. Super interesting. Loved it. 8 out of 10, 97, 10 out of 10, 2007.

Wow, 10. Hmm. Hot damn. I'd probably get a bit lower. For 97, I would give it a 4-star with a like. I'd give them both the same rating, actually, except for Funny Games 2007, the US one, I would just be a lower 4-star. There's not much in it to me, but if I had to choose one to re-watch,

To me, it would be the 97 version for all the reasons that I kind of go into. Wow, I'm surprised you're rating it so low. I thought you would rate it higher. Four star? Yeah. Out of five. Oh, oh, four out of five. Sorry, yeah.

Yeah, it's really confusing with you. No, no, no, no. Okay. That would be hilarious. Yeah. And I'm giving it a 10 out of 10 now. I'm doing, I guess, four out of ten for 97,

three out of ten for 2007. Epic. Yeah. Interesting. I like when there's a range. That's cool. Bit of a range here. Interesting conversation, though.

I'm not mad for the recommendation. I think it was definitely an interesting. It was worthwhile. I didn't mean to recommend something that you would hate. You know what it is? It's honestly a big part of it. it is just the kid dying, you know, it's just the kid being killed. Like that, that's just, for me, that's just, I mean, I'm telling you, I'm telling you that I was stressed with Fantastic

Four. Yeah, yeah, when you were mentioning, you can imagine my state of mind watching this. And, you know, I had to watch some of this, uh, for real, uh, carrying my son strapped to me while he slept. So I'm watching this on my phone, like, it's, it's tough. It's tough. It's. It's, tough you know so yeah that definitely influenced some of it maybe one day I'll have an argument with my son when he's a teenager and I'll put up funny games and I'll be like yeah it's not that well that was your problem you're watching on your fucking telephone my fucking iPhone and yeah I thought this was a great discussion I I would like to go through the two films just through my, like, editing software and maybe talk about the differences between them.

So I might do that sometime soon. I would genuinely love, like, a classic YMS video, like, breaking down shot by shot the differences between these movies. Because I think that'd be so interesting, like all the tiny little differences collectively, yeah. Yeah, I might make something out of it. I don't know if I would call it a classic. YMS style video. I'm still trying to deal with my health shit and time shit and all this other shit. But I would like I do want to do something with this.

And yeah, if you made it this far and haven't complained in the comments section or subred it already, I do not think all Americans are stupid. I do not think I'm better than other people for my movie taste. You know, sometimes I say things that are a bit facetious and exaggerated because it's funny. Calm down. I love the director. And you're stupid and a baby. Sorry.

Yeah. I think it's good to clear up because that was my impression the whole time. I was like, yeah, and also when you visited here, I was surprised. Like one of the first thing you said was when you stepped in my house, you were like, oh, smells like America. Damn. Disgusting. Yeah. You.

No, this was, I mean, I'm happy. I'm happy now. I was upset watching the film, but it was a very good conversation. Great, great. I'm glad to have experienced it. Yeah. Awesome. No, I was just going to say that. Whenever you say BBS, for whatever reason, my brain immediately thinks you're saying BBL. So I'm like, what? No, I'm talking about baby brain syndrome. Yeah, yeah, I know, but for whatever reason, and my brain is like, I don't have a Brazilian buttlift.

So, I mean, that's part of the syndrome is I can't understand things. But I'm getting used to the lingo of, you know, the BBS is really getting to me. Yeah, I got BBS watching BVS. Yeah, that's why I was about saying. I hear my brain hears BVS whenever I hear BBS, BBS, Snius. Yeah. Snyder brand. Snyder Brain Syndrome.

I think it was during BVS that I rated all Star Wars films of one out of ten. Damn, I guess. There's a strong reaction. Will you ever revise your ratings to Star Wars, do you think? That is my revised rating. Oh, okay. So it's done. Yeah.

All right, question time? Question time. Let's do some questions then from the Sardonicars community. Head over to the suggestion thread over on Saldonikaa subreddit. If you want to leave questions for future episodes, just like, I'm going to whip this one out because of what we just said Fell Banan

underscore YGSR to Jake As someone with BBS The funny game's duology Must have been tough to sit through Would you consider recommending something tailored for Adam and Alex's mental conditions parentheses

crippling autism And ginger slash British As a spite wreck If so, what would be some good picks Why does everyone think of British Outside of the cartoon? Like You've seen me in real life

Would you call me Ginger? You misspoke when you said that. You said, why does everybody call me British, first of all? That was funny. Yeah, I was also kind of funny. Why did everyone call me British? Sorry, yeah, Ginger slash British. That's a good misbeet.

Good line. No, ginger then, yeah, yeah, yeah. Probably because of your cartoon persona. No, but I mean like, because I've had people my real life that, you know, as a human being and not like a cartoon, say I'm ginger. I had this conversation with someone just the other weekend. Maybe they're colorblind. Interesting.

It's like, you know, there's like subtle differences in shades. Sometimes people will confuse dirty blind with red. Yeah. But then I say like, no, it's not that I have anything. If I was ginger, I would own it, you know? But it's more just like, I just want the truth out there, you know? But anyway. Spike Rex.

For the mental conditions. Mental condition of being ginger. That's what they say. I'm really thinking hard about this. And I got to say, you know, maybe for you, Alex, I would recommend the double feature of the John Houston Annie and the newer one with Kathy Bates. Yeah, that's probably a good spy pick for me.

That'd be great. And for Adam... Kathy Bates? Isn't she in one of the... one of the annies? The conventione Wallace one? No, oh, no, it'd be a triple feature.

I forgot about that one. Okay. Wait, they made one since then? There was one in the 90s, I think. Oh. Yeah, yeah, no, I know. Let's see. Yeah, yeah. 1999, Kathy Bates,

Allen coming. Yeah. Weird. Yeah, I don't know. But, yeah, I would recommend those three films. Oh, man, that'd be a good spy pick one day, actually. Yeah, keep it in your back pocket.

Cindering it. Write that down. Write that down. And for the autism, I would, I don't know how to answer that question, but I think, I would just. Trust your gut. Say the first thing that comes to mind. Have you guys reviewed the Sia movie music? I feel like you have.

Yeah, I did. They're hilarious Yeah Okay, yeah I'd recommend that again I don't know Just again Yeah

Yeah Yeah How we go There you go There you go Was unbreakable boy recently I checked that out

Certainly something Oh damn Wait Did you actually watch The whole thing Yeah Yeah Yeah

Damn Okay Yeah Yeah Maybe that's a better Pick Actually Good question

I mean Fantastic Question Amazing question amazing question. Yeah, yeah, more like those. Great stuff. Yeah, why do people think I'm British? Yeah, I don't get it. Okay, um, let's do this one from Herbal Coast. In spirit with the recommendations, what director would you like to see remake their own movie, if any? Seeing it's like Adam uploaded the, the Rings of Power video, Lord of the Rings has been on my mind, so I immediately

went to. Yeah, that's a good one. The Hobbit. Peter Jackson, just make The Hobbit again. I was one movie. Yeah, please. Yeah. Like, Redcon. Just be like those ones didn't exist. Do what so many movie franchise have been doing that recently? Who started that?

Halloween. I'd be fine with that. Or like those ones didn't happen actually. Yeah. Yeah, they didn't. Yeah, that's my answer too. Like there's no better answer than that. Someone remaking their own movie.

We know he has the capability of doing it, right? Like, we know he can do it. Yeah, exactly. It's not even a team. talent thing. Yeah. I'd like him to remake the Beatles documentary and not make it 50 hours long so I can actually watch it.

Yeah. It's supposed to be good. I haven't seen it, but I know. I would like, let's see if I can pull this up. I would like the YouTuber known as corrupt space YT with 157 subscribers and one video. I would like for them to remake their video titled Logan Paul's Fake Japan Video was a Hollywood controlled stunt parentheses time stamps

in the description. Because it's nine, sorry, it's 10 hours long and I'm four and a half hours through this shit. Been listening kind of as a podcast, like driving and showering and stuff. Wait, wait, wait.

You don't have time to go see Fantastic Four. That's like two Marvel movies. I don't have time to see Fantastic Four in a theater while I'm showering and driving. Yes. I don't have time to watch a movie in a theater while I'm showering and driving. you're correct. Yeah.

Yeah, I can go, I can, I can make, I can get four and a half hours through something over the course of a week while I'm making food. What was this YouTuber's name again? Corrupt. YT. I'm gonna, I would like for them to remake this video because it makes some very interesting arguments. Yeah.

And there's a lot of interesting supporting footage in this video. But a good amount of. it is repetitive. Corrupt YT. A good, good amount of it. This could, going through this. Expect better from him. I just, I, it could have been an hour and a half, is my assumption.

But it's a very interesting video. But you can't watch it as entertainment. I was trying to find it, but there's some, it seems to be someone else called corrupt YT. Oh, here, I'll send you a link. So search Logan Paul's fake Japan video was a Hollyw. controlled stunt search that's the title fake Logan Paul yeah I'll send you the link yeah it's so obscure oh maybe YouTube suppressing it yeah definitely

also just having Logan Paul in the title is gonna have it way low yeah okay how about yeah the the the video code is EQF EBF G ZX90. I can't remember that many things. Well, I sent it in Telegram. Just click the link. That was for the YouTube people. Oh, my phone's on.

That was for our audience. Oh, sorry, okay. No, I'm on a... I would, that's a director I would like to see a remake. Well, maybe somebody else can remake it, actually. Because they don't understand fucking pacing. They don't understand how to be succinct. This is why.

You should watch it. Jesus Christ, it really is 10 hours. Okay. I love the fraud in the thumbnail. Yeah. That's good. That's good. So one of the top comments said,

you could watch Interstellar three times and it would still take less time than watching this video. Yeah. Yeah, and they respond to comments saying, like, no, I'm not making an ADHD version. Like, okay. I'm watching it. It wouldn't be ADHD to organize your information better.

That wouldn't be ADHD. Just to understand how to organize your information better. So yeah, maybe somebody else needs to remake that one. Did you have one joke? Oh, right. I forgot the question. I just got really into this. Direct to like remaking a movie like fun games, like one of their own movies.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would like, I'd like Brian De Palma to remake Scarface. But make it more woke. I don't know. Just spitball in here. I don't really know. I feel like De Palma, I'd like De Palma just to do a straight up remake of Vertigo, kind of like how Gus Van DeSant did Psycho and just kind of see what happens.

I don't think DePaulma's making movies anymore, though, which is a shame. How do you guys feel about Brian DePalma? He's made some cool stuff. Like him They're like split diopter Shuts Hell yeah Have you guys seen

What body Not body bag Not body heat Body double Have you seen body double? We haven't seen body double I don't think Alex and I have seen Scarface either have we No

That's a diploma we haven't seen Somehow no I feel like I've like osmosis seen it Mm-hmm That's another remake Howard Hawks You know Yeah

It'd be an issue one. Yeah. Okay. I loved, uh, what's the movie called? Whatever. Uh, blowout. Thank you. I was about to give up. Yeah. Phantom of the Paradise is fun too. Yeah, blowout's awesome. Yeah. Blow out is awesome, yeah. Cool. Well, uh, we've got an interesting one here. The kind of subject came up earlier. So this is thematic. Mr. Hates this website says, hi Sard's. I tend to feel the same way as Adam about Star Wars.

That's why I was absolutely shocked upon watching Andor recently. I find it particularly impressive how Tony Gilroy had to work within the framework of this boring children's franchise and somehow managed to create an incredibly original character-driven political drama that feels like a completely self-contained work. Are there any other examples you can think of whether a creator took or attired or unappealing IP and made something amazing out of it? Prentices, also Alex, please bully Adam and Jake into watching Andor. I saw like a post on your second channel, Jake, woman carrying man.

Yeah, sounds like my wife wrote that comment. Right. Is she trying to get you to watch it? She's been trying to bully me into watching Andor. She's literally been putting posts on the second channel being like, you guys should tell Jake. Oh, we found her alt. Yeah. That's crazy.

I mean, now I have to watch it. Well, listen to her, man. Yeah, I'll watch it. I know what's good. I just, it's, I've tried. I have trouble getting through shows these days. I don't know. Are there other franchises that...

Tired of unappealing. I haven't seen these movies, but maybe the Matt Reeves Planet of the Apes ones. I haven't seen them, but people talk about them. Like, they're really good. I guess I can't say anything. Don't get Adam's thought on those. I can't say you won't enjoy them. I'm just going to say I don't.

I would call them Normie masterpieces. Just like the Batman. It's pretty fair. Yeah. Yeah, I don't really have any IPs, but yeah, I reckon Jake would like Andor, but there's just no point without him. I'm not even going to bully him. No. No, there's no point.

Got to pick your battles, you know. Yeah, he's got to watch Logan Paul's fake Japan video was a Hollywood controlled stunt. Time stamps and description. He's a lot of Andor in that time. Yeah, well, okay, do you want me to watch? watch and or and listen to it and not look at it while I'm like in the shower and driving like is that how you want me to watch it yes I want you to watch and or while you're driving I can't I can't do that I want you to watch you to get

arrested for vehicular manslaughter while you're watching and what that's a that's a bad fate that's a bad fate that's like an Eddington ass subplot yeah yeah if I get arrested for fucking Man Slaughter I wanted to be watching the Lion King 2019 yeah that would explain I think I would they would They would not pursue charges go they'd be like clearly this It was mentally disturbed. Yeah, this is Wasn't in his control this the mind of an unwell man. Yeah, you could say like the Lego movie. Yeah, you could say like the Lego movie. Yeah, you could even Barbie is good

You could say like fucking naked lunch or Barbie you could say fucking Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings like there's a lot of things that we consider to be like masterful stories today that

you know for the longest time people were struggling beforehand to figure out how to adapt these stories and make into successful films but then somebody just figured it out and now we just have these

great pieces of art as reference points and it just makes it seem so simple and easy now like oh yeah that's how it was supposed to be like no that's somebody's interpretation and it just worked out really well. I think movies have always been like a commercial art and

require a bunch of a lot of money to make so it just it makes sense that we'd have masterpieces playing with you know superheroes you know because that's, you know, art, I think good art will find a way, you know, whatever the subject, you know, if you've got the skills and the, the, the, the, something to say, then it'll come out, you know, even in, like, I don't love superhero movies, but there are some damn good superhero movies. Mm-hmm. Agreed.

Should we do two more here? I'm comfy with two more. Mm-hmm. Okay. Let's do this one from Kai, the movie guy. Speaking of adaptations, for Jake, but anyone can answer, with the Blood Meridian movie being in pre-production by the same director as the guy. garbage road adaptation how do you think the film will turn out and who would you pick to direct it if you could choose um i don't know if it's like an active like this is funded

development or if it's more like a concept script phase or whatever um was the road adaptation that garbage i remember it being like fine yeah i think people generally like it but i didn't see i never read the book garbage seems a bit strong yeah i've read the book and seen the film But it's been a while, to be fair. I think it was kind of considered serviceable. Like, from what I understand, people are like, yeah, it was fine, but it's like the director isn't someone who's like, I don't know, anuteur with a huge vision.

And, you know, I think this is a super interesting thing because there have been directors over time. I think most notably Ridley Scott, who really wanted to do an adaptation of Blood Meridian. I don't know if Gridley Scott is the right director for that project. No. For me, I think that the Cohen brothers, since they did no country for old men, I think they would do an amazing blood meridian, yeah. Yeah, that's a good pick. Yeah, that is tough.

I did mention like ages ago that I started reading it but then like the book like disappeared physically it's like yeah like I can't find it anywhere so I took that as like a message as like well I guess like fate doesn't want me to read it it does that it's you know he's got in mind of its own

that's a weird plot twist this does sound a little bit like the student being like, ah, my homework, it's just, what, it's gone. I started reading a book, guys. I don't know where it went. Yeah, I read like one page and it was like. It vanished. Oh, man.

Yeah, so I'll tune back in when it mysteriously shows up again. Do an audio book. And you can read in the shower. Yeah, true. And driving. Yeah, good point. Right. Guys, I'm just always in the shower.

the shower and driving. When you're not streaming. I'm always showering and I'm always driving. Could be worse. Yeah, we've got one more. This is an unusual one, but I felt like I had to read it because of how unusual. It is, bear with me. Way to go.

Minimum plenty, 6-895. I want to start my question by saying, Damn, some of the questions my fellow listeners submit seem difficult. I've listened to the cast since day one, and I can't count how many times the same very. of questions are asked. Examples like, does the afterlife exist?

And if so, are there movies there? Are they good movies? Or, I am afraid of AI. Can you guys please explain it to me? So that instead of feeling fear, I feel angry at Adam. These esoteric and existential questions are big pills to swallow.

We must remember that our hosts live stressful lives and are normal people. We should try to submit more uplifting and positive questions. This community needs to rise above the stereotype of the weird, chronically online cinephile. On to my question. I recently watched one of my favorite films, 1981's possession. In it, Isabel Ajani's character freaks out inside an empty subway station.

She begins convulsing and screaming as black goose spills out of her body onto the cold tile floor. This scene is a visual representation of her character losing faith and hope in God, in herself and in those she loves most. She experiences the ruination of her soul and goes insane. it is a sickening display of pure agony. With that context, what animal do you guys think is cutest? Bunnies, kittens, or sea otters? That was a great question, thank you. That's a good one.

Good job. Sorry, bunnies is what? Or sea otters? Bunny's kittens or sea otters. On the cute factor. Kittens. I'm going to say sea otters. They're like proto-seals.

Yeah, I'm going to go with. sea otters bunnies I have firsthand experience with bunnies they're psychotic they're they're demonic they're frightening yeah although I I enjoy you know I like that you guys have been taking these questions for years and you know you'll get questions like does God exist and you guys are like well I don't know you know like you guys are really it just doesn't phase you whereas you know I think for me some of these questions are a bit unwieldy. You can just stop the sentence there.

I mean, yeah, you're not required to answer any of that we do. Yeah, you can veto. But I like it. I enjoy that people come to you guys with questions like they are speaking to a deity or like a demigod who can commune with the dark forces. I don't know. But this was a nice, light little question. Thank you.

Thank you, viewer. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome question. All right. I think it's your recommendation, Jake. Damn. Thanks for the question.

Yeah. You're going to spite or what you're going to do here? Okay. So after watching funny games, I did have a strong desire to make Adam suffer specifically. And I talked to Nadia about it. What would be a good thing? And she said, well, has he seen Star Wars? And I said, yes, but I'm not going to do that.

And I don't know. I'm wavering. I'm having a kind of a moral crisis here of what should I do. So I'm going to throw out some titles here. Oh, we pick? Because no, no, no, no. But I want your input. Have, I assume, both of you have seen a film called Thor Love and Thunder?

Yes. No. I don't think you have Adam if I had to guess. Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. You're lucky I'm an honest person. I could have just pretended.

Next question. I couldn't find it. I don't believe you guys have reviewed Titanic on this channel. No, we have not. You've seen Titanic. You've seen Titanic? A long time ago. A long time ago, yeah.

And I would be very much interested in a discussion on that. Yeah, so would I. Okay. Even if I might not fully enjoy the experience, I don't know. Okay. And have either of you seen the James Cameron movie The Abyss? No. Yes.

Oh. Last question before I. before I make my announcement. You guys have neither seen sorcerer, have you? No. I don't think. William Friedman, Sorcerer. I have not.

It's on my list. Okay. Let's watch Titanic. All right. Epic. Avatar trailer dropped. Titanic's coming out. Yeah.

All right. This will be fun. I'm being nice. It might be shed. Adam, I could hear the fear. your voice when I said Thor, Love and Thunder, and now I have a better sense of what to do if I want to be cruel. It was the only film out of all the ones you mentioned that I both hadn't seen and wasn't

on my watch list. Nice. It was the only one I would not be watching otherwise. You guys don't know how hard it is to find good spite recommendations for two people who have made careers out of talking about shitty movies. It is so hard. Yeah. Like doing like hours of research. Oh my God.

Yeah. We got Titanic. Let's do it. I think this will be fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. If you don't want to be spoiled for Titanic, 1997. James Cameron. watch it before the next episode comes in the same year as funny games I just realized that oh yeah these episodes come out

quite different pre 911 these episodes come out every two weeks you can listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com sign up for premium or

patreon.com slash sardonicast or click the button below join do the members thing you can listen to them early and add free no ads. So for sure

there will be a poll happening on the Patreon for sure for the movie suggestion things for episode 200 where you get to decide

the movies we watch. Patreon for sure. I'll have to see there might be a way to do that on the members thing and then on the website I would have no idea we might have to ask

I don't know if that's possible or not. It might be a huge... Oh yeah. Unless you did two separate votes and combined? Oh yeah, I don't know. I don't fucking know. I'm just throwing out ideas. We got time.

Okay. Time to figure it out. But Patreon for sure. The rest are not guaranteed is what I'm saying. Yeah. Patreon for sure. That's the easiest thing to do. All right.

Thanks for listening, everybody. Have a funny game. Have a Titanic. A game that's funny Have a Titanic That's like a death wish That's an ominous thing to say That's like saying have a 9-11

Jake Have an ocean gate Would that be so wrong Why don't you go Wow Thanks for listening everybody Bye bye bye bye bye bye Bye bye

Bye bye