Sardonicast - Sardonicast 204: The Running Man, No Other Choice, The Fountainhead

Episode Date: December 8, 2025

Listen early and ad-free at https://sardonicast.com or https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sardonicast.bsky.social Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@YMS Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Jake's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ManCarryingThing Jake's movie channel: https://www.youtube.com/@womancarryingman Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/yms.bsky.social Jake's twitter: https://x.com/ManCarrying Jake's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mancarryingthing.bsky.social Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Jake's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mancarryingthing Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:31 The Running Man 36:20 No Other Choice 1:11:38 The Fountainhead 1:39:58 Questions 2:23:28 Recommendation + outro

All right. Ow! I just hit myself in the eye with my headphones. Oh, that sucks. Oh, no, I. Yeah, well, because it, the... Oh, my God, it's all happening. That's difficult to just explain how that happened.

In the future, could you hit yourself in the eye while we're recording? I think that'd be a good material. We are recording. You didn't stop recording, did you? No, no. That's true. Well, then we are recording. This is our intro then.

Hi, everybody. I'm Adam from your movie sucks. This is Sardonicast. I was actually, the quote I was going to use was, uh, I play the stock market of the spirit, and I sell short. Nice, nice. Well, I'm Alex from I.E. And I'm going to go with a man chooses a slave obeys.

Okay. Got so many good quotes in there. I'm Jake Mancaring Thing, and I choose, The World is perishing to an orgy of self-sacrifice. Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah, so I, like, you know how headphones there's two

ear things held together by a band that goes on your head. You're telling us there's two ear things on the headphones? Yes, yes. And so you place both of your hands when you're getting them onto your face,

but especially in a quick and rushed manner trying to start the podcast, my right hand lost its grip on my right earpiece and the tension of the headband segment wound up shooting it into my eye as I was putting it on my head. I'm fine now, but it hurt for a second.

Oh no. Couldn't need an eye patch. Yes. So you were rushing in order to, for our benefit, for the collective, right? And if you instead, you're focusing on yourself. Right. If you're focused on your selfish interests, that wouldn't have happened. A man like Howard Rourke wouldn't have done that.

Well, if you guys weren't so tyrannical being the normie majority, then, you know, we could have a nice society where nobody looks out for anybody. I think you're the Howard Rourke of the podcast, and I mean that complimentary. I think, you know, honestly, yeah, I hated the character, but I saw a lot of myself in him. Wow. Very stubborn. We'll have a lot to get into that later on. Yeah. But what are we talking about?

first. How fast your child is. Yeah, he's fast, right? Oh, yeah. He's speeding around. He's wonka. He's so fast you might call him a running man. Running baby.

I'm not going to respond to that. Okay. Well, we saw running man, the running man. We did. New Edgar Wright. What? First of all, what did you guys think of last night in Soho? Because I thought that was his first, like, dud.

Did not see. it. Yeah, I remember talking about it on the podcast and being like, okay with the first half or so, but it just didn't really have much of an identity and definitely didn't know how to wrap up its own plot or like escalate itself. Yeah. And yeah, it was kind of his first real disappointment from me. Yeah, everything else he's made has felt so clearly intentful, if that's a word, you know, like it felt like he had a vision and he knew what he was doing to achieve that vision. Whereas last night and Soho just felt like, what exactly did you want to do?

And it doesn't seem like you tried to do what you wanted to do, whatever you wanted to do. Like, I'm not sure what that was. Yeah, I really like to focus. Yeah. Super forgettable as well. Yeah. And then personally, I found the running man to be worse.

I just, I found it to be terrible. I found it to be awful. Ooh. Okay. I think I'd prefer. the running man over Soho, but not by much. I definitely liked it more than you. I checked out your review earlier.

Shout out to the Sandy Cheeks Cockball. Oh, you know what? I feel like I honored that bet very well. Yeah, you did. Congrats. Yeah. I'm a fucking sport. I'm a team player.

I earn good boy points. Yeah. So I'm glad you got that out of the video at least. You're welcome. But yeah, I don't know. This is weird for me. because I only saw this film yesterday because I really felt in no racial urgency to see this, which is kind of sad. If I was telling myself this like 10, 15 years ago, I'd be like,

really? Why? What happened? Because it's just not a very exciting project to me for Edgar Wright to be attached to. It's another Stephen King adaptation. I haven't read the book. I haven't seen the 80s, Arnie movie. Have you guys? I haven't. I haven't. And I'm glad. I said I didn't sort of thing, you know. I've heard that from what I tell, or sorry, from what I've heard from other people, it sounds like at the very least, the Arnold film kind of knows what it is and knows that it's like a schlucky sort of thing. That's what I've heard.

I feel like more 80s camp is kind of what this needed, you know, because, yeah, the tone wasn't clicking for me. had some moments I'd enjoyed but man it just didn't especially again with the Soho thing and the ending not coming together here the same thing again where I just didn't really feel satisfied at the end

I've heard an explanation for the ending that if we want to get into spoiler section I guess we'll do that later yeah remind me remind me yeah let's get some top level thoughts first what about you Jake do you like it more you know I I think it's kind of a normie

average film. Like it's a, it's a, and I know that's disappointing for a lot of Edgar Wright fans. I've never been a mega Edgar Wright fan. I've enjoyed some of his movies. I think Baby Driver is probably my favorite one. Nice.

Because of Kevin Spacey, of course, but. And because of your BBS. Yeah, exactly. It's a baby. The balls on that kid. And, um,

no, so I like some of his movies and I thought this was like a better than average action film that was like good. And I think if Edgar Wright hadn't directed it, I think a lot of people would be like, oh, this is interesting. There's some good set pieces. There's like energy and style with the camera and everything. But yeah, it just feels like Edgar Wright a bit watered down. And I do agree with the tonal issues.

I have read the book. It's another Richard Bachman slash Stephen King book. Yeah. That's funny. We just talked about the long walk not that long ago. another book about transport on your feet. And I read exactly one half of The Running Man. And it is very similar to this adaptation in terms of like beat by beat,

set piece by set piece, except for like tonally, it's so different. Like the Running Man book is the most like grimy 70s downbeat book you could, could read. It's so, like, the main character is just kind of disgusting and mean and nasty and like, there's no fun pop energy. It kind of felt like maybe... Also, it's more serious. Oh, yeah. It is deathly serious. And in fact, it's kind of dull. And I think that's why I didn't finish it, because I wanted to read it in preparation for this movie because I saw that trailer and I was like, oh, I should read

the book. And it was like, it's very, it's kind of slow. The chapters are very short, but it's kind of slow, deliberate, like this guy is just trying to survive. in this dystopian world that's very depressing. And we'll talk about the end because I have read what the ending is, even though I didn't read that part of the book. But that'll be an interesting convo. But yeah, I did kind of, I'm wondering, because I didn't see the Arnie version, I'm wondering if maybe they were trying to blend like a faithful adaptation of the book

with like more of a campy fun action movie that people know from the 80s film. So I don't know. It definitely has issues, but I thought it was overall a fun time. Yeah, that's surprising that you're saying that the book is more serious because the story is kind of goofy. And that's kind of what I feel like was lacking from this adaptation. Right. Where, yeah, going back to that tonal thing where one of the things I was most disappointed by was the humor, really not clicking for me. And I think it goes back to that tonal issue where, yeah, you've got Michael Sierra doing like Home Alone in one scene and then another moment.

You're supposed to take the threat of the family seriously, and it's like this, you know, this class consciousness revolution angle and this big game show. And it's like, it was kind of being pulled in many different directions and was kind of stretched thin as a result. A hundred percent. I agree, especially like the trying to have like a message, you know, and speak on like modern times. I feel like that is kind of a unique, a new thing to see an edmund. Greight movies. Like, I don't see him as a very socially conscious filmmaker, or at least interested in, like, broader cultural issues or whatever or society.

Like, I just don't think that his heart was in it in a kind of way that it doesn't feel like an earnest, like, commentary on the world. And it comes across as a little glib. The political commentary in this film felt like it was just organized by committee. Like it didn't really say much beyond like a surface level checkbox of, oh, this film has political commentary within it. And that's it. Like, okay, I don't believe this is a human being with things to say expressing it through art, like at all. Right.

Yeah. And I noticed that evidence that it hasn't connected with the culture is that we don't have a Ben Shapiro video on this, despite the class consciousness, like politics in there. You know, the first class, worst class graffiti and all the various stuff in there. But silence, and it's bombing hard, too. It's not doing well. The Ben Shapiro film review index is like my waffle house storm index. It wasn't even woke enough to anger Ben. Yeah, yeah.

That's a damning indictment of a film that is about, like, how society and like the rich and the poor and all this. I mean, it's, it is like, in coherent. It's just not interesting. Like, you can just feel it. like it just doesn't have its heart in it. It's interested in any time there's like action or adventure or, you know, like this guy is ostensibly. He's like trying to save his daughter, you know, from dying. And it's just like another like, oh, well, he has a sick kid. And it's, you never feel the, the anger, you know, that he supposedly has that he's just like, I'm an angry guy.

And I just don't think Edgar Wright is an angry filmmaker. I don't think he's an angry guy. I, I, I, I don't, I didn't feel the anger. It felt very forced. Oh, very forced. Yeah. And I, it, it felt like Glenn Powell didn't even understand like what his character was throughout the film because it just, it felt so inconsistent, like even what he was going for. The tone was all over the place.

The, the score, the performances, like, it's just, I wish it felt like it had more of a clear and consistent vision rather than just being some like thrown together mishmash of whatever the fuck confusing, not really committing in one direction or the other, sometimes, but then not, you know. I actually didn't mind, Glam Powell. I thought he would be fine in this role in a 90-minute version of this. Yeah. No, the old moments I liked him, I actually did like that kind of over-the-top angry side,

but it needed to be packaged in like a Paul Verhoeven kind of like so over-the-top, so ridiculous. I think that would have made this work for me with how like goofy it all is because yeah, that runtime, it's brutal. I don't know why it has to be so long for this concept. It just doesn't really need it. No, I don't think. You could like carve out half an hour of this, I feel like easily and have a better movie as a result, a more concise or focused little story. Yeah. Well, they could either cut it to make it shorter or use the existing time to actually develop things properly. Because one of my biggest issues is, that it felt like every single scene was just like, oh, here's a tiny crumb of whatever this could be.

And then we're on to the next one. And it feels like nothing has happened. It feels like no characters have properly been developed. You know, some people have pointed out in my comment section. He's like, oh, almost like he's running. It's like, okay, that could make sense for a different film with a different tone or like a more well-realized kind of like ADHD things are always moving sort of film. And you can still have a film feel like that while developing things properly. You just have to be more mindful of the time that you're using, right? There's a lot that happens in fucking train spotting. That movie's only like, what, 90 minutes or some shit?

Like, it feels like a, like, the film that it's presenting, I'm just going to fact check myself. The film that it's presenting, yeah, it's an hour at 33 minutes. What happens in that film feels like a two hour plus movie. but it manages to do so in 90 minutes without feeling like things are underdeveloped because they're very mindful of what they show, how they show it, right? Editing and just precision on what to focus on. This film had none of that.

It spent way more time showing less and every single scene wound up being empty and unsatisfying despite, you know, in concept like, oh yeah, we're going to rush on to the next thing. It's like, okay, well, then the next thing is also nothing. So what were you making time for? Really? Mm-hmm. Or even, like, you know, making me think of, like, Mad Max Rode or something, which is like a two-hour chase scene.

Yeah. I feel like that that accomplishes. Yeah. Kind of the feeling that this should have, you know? We never got, like, a full chase scene. We got, like, a 30-second chase scene three times. Like, that's so unsatisfying. They were some okay, like car chases.

Some of the set pieces, as Jake brought up, I thought were okay. I liked the one in the boot of the trunk and the, in the boot, sorry. Sorry, we say boot in the UK. It was so, it was so short. It was like over before it started. Yeah, but I mean, for the first, like,

act, I actually did kind of feel a sense of tension or the, there were, like, stakes to it is high stakes. It is like a squid game, like your life's on the line. Beast game. Silly setup. And that was, that was okay for me. It just didn't know where to take it. And then as soon as it started going into the deeper, like,

it's the revolution building. It's like, what? It's kind of a losing it for me. Yeah, I think conceptually it was kind of broken for the start because I think like this premise has the opportunity to be so relevant. And if there was like a filmmaker who was, I don't know, like younger and more in tune with like Mr. Beast and the culture of, you know, being online and how we're all surveilled all the time. Or just wanting to make the movie. Or just wanting to make the movie. I mean, because it almost hurts it that it is so devoted to the original because I remember when I was reading the original, I was like, oh, this is going to be interesting.

how they update it because in the original book, they have to like record themselves for 10 minutes a day and then send in a videotape, you know? And I'm like, well, today in modern times, like we have live stream 24-7, you know, you can just put a camera on a dude and just stream it. And it's like, in this version, for some reason, they're still sending in videotapes for 10, like it's just one of those things that's like so outdated and strange. Like, why do they stick with this? And it just felt like it was lacking imagination and it was lacking like an ambition to be like, you know, relevant or socially impactful in some way. And that being said, I am going to defend like this was an entertaining movie. Like I was genuinely hooked from like moment to moment. I didn't

feel like it was super long. I was sitting in the theater with one other lady. I'm not talking about Nadia, just a random person. At another part of the theater. And for some for some reason, like near the third act of this film, the power went out in the theater and it just stopped playing. And I was like, bold choice. And the other lady was like, that's funny. Oh my God, I was so interested in this. I wanted to see what happens. And I'm like, yeah, me too. And I just had a moment. That's funny because I had a glitch at my theater showing of this movie too. No way. I haven't had like that happen. Maybe it's like a cursed project or something. Yes. Yeah, maybe it's cursed. That'll explain it. I mean, I'd like to just leave it at this movie's

cursed. It has something off with it. But I mean, it is entertaining. Like, I was captured into the film. Like, the second it was over, it just kind of left my mind like a fog or a mist. But while I was in it, I was like, yeah, like these, it's, it's fun transitions. It's snappy. Like, it gets the job done in a very, you know, okay way. Yeah. The only times I was like entertained by it was just watching a fucking train wreck, just being like, what happened? Like I was I was very very very fucking bored for every moment that I wasn't like sad at the film Like that that was most of my entertainment was just like being sad it wasn't fun really I didn't even find it that moving It kept just kind of veering into a place was like oh this is as Jake was getting out with the like modernizing it kind of concept like the deep fake stuff and the AI footage

I was like that's kind of an interesting idea where are they going to take this but they don't really doing anything with it, especially because of how like squeaky clean the film winds up being. It doesn't really leave anything up to the audience to interpret. So it's very just like cut and dry. Yeah. Oh, like why, why are you training it like this? Exactly. And then like an example of how toothless it is, is like this idea of the social commentary

is having a show called The Americanos. That's like a Kardashian show. And it's just like they keep referencing it. And it keeps watching the Americanos and it's supposed to be like a funny parody of it. But it's like doesn't really serve any purpose. It's just kind of like, wow, it's like the Kardashians. Aren't they stupid? Don't we have like stupid shows?

And it's like, yeah. I don't know. I wish they did something with it. Yeah. It would have been interesting if like the world of running man and the Kardashian thing kind of like met up at some point. Like he just like broke into their fucking set. Because he kind of you know he intrudes on other people's lives like that the female do we she's not even really a female lead what is she like the last hour Whoever the the woman driving that they from that point on pretend is the female lead

Yeah like he kind of like intrudes on her world as she's watching that thing Damn it was so fucking jarring with just like they they're they these characters have met for like a very short amount of time and then she's like yeah I'm on board and then the rest of the film yeah they treat her as though she's just been there from the beginning like every single moment with her is this implied sense of significance or like emotion that just is not earned at all like you just got here what the hell who are you still you made me feel like I'm the bad guy yeah like why are you having this conversation like when they were having that emotional argument on the plane near the end I was like that was the funniest part of the whole fucking movie I was like what the fuck like none of this

earned. That was genuinely funny for me. I was I was bought in. I liked the plain action set piece, you know, no spoilers or anything, but I was, I was invested in also like this kind of villain that he has to beat, you know, minibus is fun. But then the ending just really, all the goodwill I had towards it, because I definitely liked this more than you guys did, it just kind of vanished. And the way they ended the movie was just like, okay. I'm going to forget this in five minutes. Well, let's do spoiler talk then. All right.

Spoilers, everybody. So what about 9-11? Hey, you got to let me get to it. Luckily, it was written before that. Yeah. Because I think that's why the movie was bad. Because if 9-11 hadn't happened, they'd have the balls to do the original book. Exactly, yeah.

Well, so he like crashes a plane into a building in the original book, apparently. Yeah, that's how it ends And he kills, you know, the boss and everyone And it's like, to me, that's okay Does the 80s movie end that way? I don't know Did they change it there as well? That'd be curious to know.

That's a good question. I don't know. But no, like there was a moment in the theater when I was like, if Edgar Wright has the balls to end the movie like this, it's going to elevate the movie so much. I'd forgive it if it's flaws. It'd be like the most incredible ending

to a mainstream. and blockbuster. And then it just, you know, the plane gets shot down. And then it cuts to like a YouTuber who's like, his overly edited style of like, whoa, it's a conspiracy theory. Was it actually shot down? We don't know. And then it's like he's actually alive and leading the revolution.

And he gets to be with his family again who weren't actually killed. And it's just like, fuck off. Like make up your mind. Don't have all these different endings, stupid. That part was weird for me too. Because like, weren't they? like heavily publicized like how are they walking around

at a grocery store like this family like did they know did they know that there was an AI deep fake of them dying yeah they glossed over that they should just left that open that's what I mean about just

answering just cleaning it up too much because I don't know I I'm picturing like a crazy maximalist version of this with the crash ending and it kind of being like a you know feeding into that angry main character the middle finger thing that would have been like kind of a fire ending would have been awesome yeah Glenn Powell 9-11s just end it like the other movie end it like the

Aronovsky one we watched not requiem for a dream the new one oh court stealing yes cut stealing feels like a better version of this in a way interesting how so true actually yeah Like prolific director doing a little side step, you know, clearly a project that like he's just doing for hire. But, you know, Aronovsky kind of delivered in what it is in making a watchable movie, you know, I just, I feel like what what pisses me off about the running man also is that if you're doing some kind of, you know, dystopian sci-fi universe sort of thing, right? as we've already pointed out, political commentary might as well be non-existent. The fact that it's in the film is almost insulting because it's so surface level and not saying anything, right? They also don't care about the fucking world, you know?

If I'm watching something that's science fiction, I'm going to have like some questions, right? And, you know, in a film like her, right, that's a film where it doesn't answer every question, but it doesn't give you any reason to be asking. question, you know, in terms of like the logistics of how things work, right? In this film, there's there's a lot that just like right off the bat doesn't feel like it makes much sense and you're kind of wondering why. And it would be either nice to not have things set up in that way or maybe you'd have some kind of acknowledgement, but it really genuinely

does not feel like anybody involved in this film actually cares about the universe or cares about its characters, like, there seems to be, like, no interest whatsoever. And so all of these, like, oh, why is this? Or what, what the fuck? Why are they doing things this way? It seems like they don't care. They're not aware of it, right? See, I found a setup interesting, but it just didn't take it anywhere. Like, they're, they weapon out like William H. Macy. And it's like, oh, this is underground, like, shop. And it's like, what's this all about? Where's this going to go? And it's just kind of left. It goes to other characters. Yeah. It's more like vignettes almost, like the way it's, like, it's,

structured and split up. Yeah. Yeah. And I think a good example of how these characters just kind of feel like props for these action moments or beats and set pieces is that the, when Michael Sarah like pushes the alarm to alert the bad guys to come, it's just like there's zero reason for him to do that. It was totally illogical and stupid. And the only purpose it served was to do a home alone set piece that was tonally out of

place. Very cringe. Oh, it turns into a different movie. This is the movie that Edgar Wright wants to make. He doesn't want to make this angry political, you know, revolution film. He wants to make a little home alone thing. Yeah. You know, and that's what he's good at.

If that was the tone for the entire thing, then maybe it would have worked. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. It was almost worse just having that tone in that scene because of how the rest of the film was. Like, it was so jarring. It made it stood out more. That it just felt cringe and unearned again, you know. But it also kind of like the long walk, too.

It made some of the more. brutal violence just hit in a way that was like, I don't know about that. It's just like direct gunshots to the head. It's like, that's not funny. That's like fucked up. No, exactly. It's very great. I don't even, I didn't even feel like the violence was that brutal in this film. It wasn't, it was no one near as bad as the long walk, but I did feel that a couple times where just that tonal inconsistency of showing off that violence. Just didn't feel not necessary, particularly. So the long walk is a better movie in my opinion. It's, it's actually somewhat it's like tonally coherent

yeah sure messages I'll give you that one communicated all right I think I like I'm not the same actually and they both kind of have endings that don't work for me I'm giving them the same rating but I would say that long walk is

like more well realized for what it is and I could say that like watching the film that the filmmakers cared more about what they were doing right like they didn't just fart it out like sure they made some decisions that it didn't work for me that's that's for sure.

So in that case, like, what is, why did he make this? Is it just to keep massaging the studio system so you can have movies come out? I don't know. Because I don't know if last night in Soho did particularly well either. And I just don't really know what they were thinking from the standpoint of dropping $110 million on this and expecting it to be a big blockbuster, especially with the timing of the release and everything. It's like, what? What were you thinking with this?

I often think back to a moment in history where, um, A man known as video game donkey posted a video titled, I'm done making good videos. Oh, great. And sometimes I think of that, and I put that in perspective for directors. You know, sometimes people are just done. They're like, yeah, you know, I did a bunch of passion projects and put a lot of effort into things and efforts hard, and I want to focus on other things in my life, which is fine. But, you know, then you're making bad art, I guess.

You know, not everything needs to be like a gigantic masterpiece or anything. It just needs to feel like you cared. I feel like there's a middle ground. It seems like he's been wanting to be part of the studio system for a while. I mean, he worked on Ant Man. That was like a big deal that didn't get off the ground. And I think it's a step in that direction. I do think he like wants to make a like a Marvel movie his way.

Like ultimately, I think that's one of his interests. So maybe this is the direction he wants to go. Maybe this was something he really cared about. It's just not what people want right now. And it's just not the attitude that's like right for today. I mean, look at one of the most beloved movies of the year, one battle after another. That's a very political, angry movie, but also like very earnest and sincere. Yeah.

And it's feelings and attitudes. Just totally different approach. Yeah. Comes from a personal place very clearly. like the yeah wow a director caring about what they put in the film and how they do it wow what a concept like okay that should be the fucking standard that should be the base right you should be able to feel that from any piece of art what this is is not art anymore and this is a fucking factory product go fuck yourself I don't think it's fair to assume he didn't

care about it though I mean I don't know we can only assume because we're we don't know personally. It's a weirdly, like, stressful commitment if he didn't care at all, you know, to like, do this, especially if it hasn't worked out and it's going to only hurt his future big blockbuster movies, right? You never know. You never know. I think some people fart things out and they're just hoping that it is a hit.

And, you know, the directors get paid even if the movie isn't a hit. Usually, you know, contractually, it's not just based off of ticket sales. Like, there's a base number, right? So sometimes you get an offer as a director and you're like, yeah. Okay. And you don't really care too much about whether or not it's a hit. You want to be working. Yeah. Yeah. And I was about to, I was about to suggest like, well, maybe it's the scale. It's just too big because that's what the quaintness of the like Cornetto trilogy is kind of part of what's so good about them. But then I just remembered like last night in Soho was, let's genre shift. Let's not do like a parody type thing. And let's make the scale small. And that didn't really work out either. So we have both sides of this, this attempt to. storytelling and neither are really working. So, yeah, I'm super curious where it's going to go from here for him because it's just

not that exciting anymore. And I don't think like, oh, he's just got to go back to working with Simon Pegg again. That would be the answer. I don't think that's the answer either. Like, they've done that trilogy. There'd be something kind of cloying about that too. But maybe that is one of the things that's missing. Some people say that.

Because he did, like, write on that. I wonder what. Although baby driver, I thought was very solid. Exactly, right? If it weren't for baby driver, there would be a lot. lot more assumptions. And Scott Pilgrim. Yeah.

Yeah. Because Baby Driver is the outlier of like, oh, you made a good movie that's not the Cornetto trilogy. Right. Yeah. Honestly, like the concept for this movie would work way better as a video game. Sure. Honestly.

Yeah. It's like, just being chased by hunters and like, you just keep retrying until you survive 30 days. Like it's goofy. Yeah. we should wrap this conversation up to make room for the other films I just wanted to point out I found it funny that like for some reason this program

it's like oh no yeah it's live but it's not like 24 7 live like the Truman show right it's not like a live program where it's actually following things happening in real life no it's still scheduled right it's only on during these hours and so like so many fucking plot devices little conveniences of like, oh no, well, we're not live yet.

So we got to wait and like we're not doing anything right now. It's like, okay, well, what? Why? Why are you doing that? Well, that's why it's like so clearly a Gen X like filmmaker, like making a movie that would be so relevant today. We have Mr. Bees. We have streaming. And like the book came out in the 70s and it's like you can update like the technology has changed.

Like we it was very predicted a lot of what we're living through now. It's like, why not speak on that? Why not lean into the aesthetics of that? But I just don't think he's, he's, he's not a young guy anymore, you know? He's not, he's not, I don't think he's online very much. Your ages. Yeah. I know.

But it's wild because there's like that line. This country is ready to blow. I was like, oh, they're going to do it, aren't they? They're actually going to like do the original ending. Oh my God. I know. But never, it's just constantly just dipping its pinky toe in and won't commit to fully jumping. And one of the bigger issues for a lot of the action.

set pieces for me while I was enjoying them on their face was just that stormtrooper aim what the fuck was that i know i think they were trying to like partially explain it with this idea that the producers were trying to string it along for as long as possible or something to keep them alive and maximize ratings but i don't know that was kind of hurting some of the tension for me the thing is as if i were to put my head into like studio exec brain you know get out of baby brain syndrome be studio executive syndrome. Grow up. Be a man.

Yeah. And it's like, it makes sense on paper. Like, let's get Edgar Wright. Let's get that fun action, zaniness with a 10% more heart, you know, some sincerity in there. Glenn Powell, rising star. This is, you know, a remake of an 80s film.

Like, it seems to make sense. And then we can like, you know, test screen it and, you know, figure out an ending that audience is like and maybe adjust with some of the drama and everything. And it's like, yeah, on paper, this seems like, sure, like a safe bet. But that's not what people like about Edgar Wright. You know, people like his,

like visionary, his unique style. And I think maybe it was less like Edgar Wright didn't have his heart in it. Maybe there was a lot of meddling in this from the studio side. I mean, I don't know. You never know. You never know.

And we can only assume and say what it feels like. And, you know, you saying if it had 10% more heart actually give me a phone. fucking eureka moment, I think Kevin Hart would have made money for this film. So if, whether he was a sidekick character or the lead, I think if he was in the film and the tone was kind of like, you know, aware of him being in the film, like, you know, matched that. Then I think this would have been a hit, honestly.

I think he would have saved it. So. Yeah, if you're throwing the rock and Ryan Reynolds, too. Yeah, it would be the biggest film of the year. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Moral of the story, always include your heart in the film. Oh, yeah.

In one way or another. True. Man, that's so true. And I'm giving this one, a three out of ten. The child acting was terrible. Genuinely horrendous, relentlessly unsatisfying film. Very sad. More sad than boring.

Yeah. Yeah. I found it pretty unremarkable overall. It has a couple of moments, a couple of shots I enjoyed a couple of concepts I'm okay with. I love the idea of, like, lambasting these grotesque game shows and like this misdibankable. stuff. Yeah, maybe say something. But yeah, exactly. By the time you get to like that, that scarf rant in the car towards the end, it's like, really, man? This is so like on the nose and unsubtle. Yeah, it did not work for me fully. But this is like a two and a half

star. I think for an for an, for an egg-or-right action movie, it's like fine in the, in the web of like action movies and big blockbusters is like as, as Jake is saying, slightly better than like the average one, but for an Egg-A-Roy movie, no. Yeah, I'd say six out of ten, if Edgar Wright's name wasn't on this, then I think it'd be a lot more understandable. Like, oh, they're trying to be like Edgar Wright,

but safe in a studio movie. Right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was disappointing. Oh, and the monster and, like, Butterfinger stuff was weird, like, the product placement. Like, there's a whole joke, like, built around monster energy. Yeah. Huh.

yeah it's disappointing well looks like we have no other choice but to move on to the next film you were holding on to that so long no I just thought of it right now fuck you okay clever clever and it's it's nice that we're talking about this in the same like episode as running man because there's a surprising amount common actually um like the heart of it true nearly got the same runtime they're going for this like oh commentary, the class commentary stuff, the, you know, trying to say something about the current predicament we are in. But it actually manages to be maybe the best film of the year so far that I've seen.

I thought this was incredible. I thought this was really fucking good. Oh, so you, this is like you're considering above one battle after another. In my mind, it's about tide, because I did rewatch one battle. and it's even better a second time so only to rewatch this again but I think even for Park Chan work I think

I don't know I'm floating around the idea on my head that this might be his masterpiece actually it's awesome it's awesome yeah I actually love it that much and I can't stop thinking about it it's so so well made there is a lot to love and a lot to think about

and a lot to chew on also yeah like it's a pretty fucking good year for movies honestly Yeah. Like we're not even Those are great stuff We're not even at the end of the year

In terms of like you know There's gonna be a lot of shit coming out December And I'm also gonna be you know Discovering and watching a bunch of stuff When I'm prepping for my Oscars vid Anyway But like my top three Right now like one battle after another

I've seen it three times Nirvana the band the show the movie I've seen it four times No other choice Superman twice Dress world Yeah sure Yeah for good

No yeah awesome Minecraft Yeah guys so which Park Chan what films have you seen both you? This is your first, I'll go out.

That is my first, very first. Holy fuck! It's good one, so I guess. Oh yeah, we did have a conversation about how you haven't seen a lot of I think we talked about this. Yeah, yeah. But I've still, shock.

I've never seen any, and I, it's a huge, you know what's crazy is that a couple months ago I actually bought on Blu-ray old boy and the sympathy for Mr. Vengeance. It was like a little three movie pack. So I'm like, I really want to get into his films because I always felt like I'd enjoy his movies. And watching this, I was like, holy fuck. What have I been missing that on? No, he's a fucking master.

Holy shit. I had so much fun with this. And this was just, oh, an incredible movie. And even more so the fact that I love the book that this is based on, it's based on a book that came on the 90s from Donald Westlake, who's like a crime author. And it's called The Axe. I read that earlier this year because I was like, oh, Park Chenwick is making this, so I should read it.

And the book is fantastic. And this is a great example of like, talking about the running man, this is a great example of adapting a novel and making it more like silly and goofy and bringing the comedy up and bringing it to modern times. But doing in such like a brilliant way that. doesn't lessen the social impact and doesn't lessen what it's trying to say. Like the novel is way bleaker because it's a lot more like realistic. There's not a lot of like goofy side characters or it's like it's funny in a way that's

like this is so real that it's kind of like darkly humorous. But it's just like dealing with a guy like he's just like thinking about murder and like what does that mean to his soul? It is just like very distressing and he's like what is a what is the role of our human lives when we're like crunched up into this system that hates us like it's it's a great great book and everyone I think people should check it out especially if you like this movie but this movie just adapts it so brilliantly and brings it like the farcical nature into it. It's just it's like everything that a movie adaptation should do. Oh yeah. Like it was just brilliant. No he's he's really great with that old boy was

originally a manga as well. Yeah, that's right. And so like there's, yeah, there's like a huge list of things that he brings to the table when when he adapts. Like he's very mindful of not only, you know, the idea of just like, oh, change something and make it yourself, but make it yourself in a way where, oh, you want to do this. Like you, you have a spark. You have an idea of like, okay, how do I, how do I bring this to something that would make sense as a film and that I would love to see sort of thing. Right. Like he only adapts things that he has some sort of inspiration to adapt in the first place, it seems. Mm-hmm. And, you know, what we were saying with the running man, not being able to modernize itself and be this like lightning rod, this felt like,

they joined the list of like other movies this year that have this ongoing theme of this like therapeutic representation of how like fucked a lot of things are, you know, like the Eddington's, your Burgonias, and this is like a different angle joining those lists. And yeah, I love that dark comedy in there and without spoiling it I feel like the ending is like that's so perfect the way it's the way it addresses certain issues like exactly like running man again with like uh automation and uh AI and that kind of stuff um just nodding towards that and the idea of this character who actually no i'm not going to say i don't i don't want to spoil it no one should be spoiled for this movie um but i will say the other park chan what films i have seen

seeing as you asked Adam I've actually seen old boy out of the vengeance trilogy I haven't seen sympathy or lady so I've got to see that but I've seen thirst handmaiden I feel like Jake would like the handmaiden actually and then no other choice

I miss decision to leave somehow I don't know I'm curious what Jake would think of the handmaiden but yeah I think decision to leave you would like yeah that's like a procedural like murder mystery thing right that's like right oh my alley

Oh, yeah, that's great. Yeah, his, um, his, like, his directing just keeps getting better. Like, he's so precise. Everything's very clearly storyboarded. The scene transitions are not only, like, visually interesting and striking and memorable, but also, like, thematically and symbolically meaningful and purposeful. Uh, the framing, right? The color grading, the, the depth, right?

the way that things are placed in the scene, characters moving in the scene, like everything just feels so precise and pristine and clean and still impressive and interesting. And he's finding new ways every single film to create shots that look like a logistical challenge

to anybody that's thinking about the filmmaking. But still just look fucking incredible. Oh, like the iPad shot? Very cool. Yeah, you got it. Like, in general, throughout the entire movie, not just that iPad shot, there's amazing usage of mirrors and glass. Yeah. Yeah, screens for fascinating shots that are great for the storytelling.

But that iPad shot is like, wow, whoa. That's like, incredible. Every shot with the screen, it's so interesting. Like, it's, he doesn't do any, like, static normal shots. Like, every shot does something weird or unique or, like, changes things up. You don't just enter a scene with, like, shot reverse. It's, it is insane how much creativity and energy is in every single scene. Like, I started this last night and I was like, I don't know how much I'll be able to watch.

And I sat through the whole thing and I didn't even move. It was just it caught me in and I was hooked just on like a cinematic level. Like the way every scene is filmed, it's so unique. Like there's a like just the detail put into moments that don't even like really matter, that don't even have anything to do with what's going on in the scene. Like he, there was one moment when he's on the cat. couch talking to his wife and the daughter sitting in front of the TV. And like we get a POV shot of her like being pulled away from the TV by the mom and just like there's so many

weird little touches like that. Oh, he's so much fun. Yeah, even with that high energy. Yeah, an infectious energy of just like the love of filmmaking. Oh yeah. He's not he's not doing anything is like a fucking yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like oh, I got to just have to do this. Like no, he loves filmmaking so much. And you can tell just based on. watching the films he makes. And it doesn't feel like overstimulating or key jangly. Yes. With that approach, it all feels very intentional and feeds into this story, this backbone of this kind of anxious, almost like pathetic dude, this awkward guy who's like trying to find his place

and with this purposefully banal paper company that he's obsessed with. Wage cut. Right. You know, and he's just trying to protect his house and his family and his kids and his golden retrievers. And yeah, like the, man, I really want to talk spoilers. Let's do it. We can do it. Sorry, yeah, like, I just.

Wait, real quick, can I say something that might annoy you guys? Actually, it will annoy you both. Because this occurred to me is that, like, I love this style of foam. I mean. It's very, like, maximalist. Like, we're so many different setups or every scene. Like, I don't, I can't even fathom how this didn't take, like, three years to make because every scene, it just has so many different cameras set up. Like, it's crazy.

Uh, but it, it reminded me somewhat of Baz Luhrman. I knew you were going to say that. Who I love. I love Baz Luhrman. And it's like, he has definitely more of like a schlocky, less artistic and intentional style. But it's there in terms of like, you know, filming everything. and getting all this energy and angle and just trying things out that I really love. I don't really feel the precision there.

Yeah. There's a big difference to me between having a variety of intentional shots versus filming everything and then figuring out in the editing room what you're going to keep later and then maybe keep everything and it doesn't matter sort of thing, which is the impression I get from Buzz Lerman. It definitely feels way more like architecture and deliberate with this film. but yeah I guess there

I just felt some kinship there between those styles you should tell Park Chenwick that I will when I hang out with them tomorrow cool thank you we're buddies all right spoiler time

everybody yeah yeah so basically the the general outline of him creating a fake paper company so he can take out his competition the way that develops and how they basically just echoes of him

so it's just like him killing himself like again and again even though it's just him like they're like the same people they have the same like beliefs he starts like copying things he's saying that they're doing and they all want the same thing they're all like the same person which adds to the kind of sting of where it winds up going and I just love going to that ending like his version of winning is still like a form of losing yeah like all the sacrifice and all the pain and misery that he's caused like it's It's such a small like nothing win that feels so like ironic and such a great like comedic beat to end on. Yeah.

Celebrating in that cold, empty automated factory. And his job isn't even like confirmed to be like an ongoing thing. It's just like a trial period basically for this automated factory. So he's like he's basically doomed anyway. So I love that like irony. Yeah. It's a real like you can.

can't stop what's coming sort of film because it is, you know, very much talking about technology and automation, you know, no wonder there's so many screens in the film, right? Yeah. And how we get our sense of worth from our jobs, especially with this like shame culture and the, you know, there's that line being fired is to have your head chopped off with an axe. And like this main character is just so like, it's got no identity, really. Yeah, the identity is. Lifey and says the problem is how you deal with it.

You know, it's not like the fact you lost the job. It's how you've like snapped basically. Yeah. And I mean, like he does have other choices. Every single character in the film that says no other choice has other choices. There's nobody that actually has no other choice. Like they're all just lying to themselves and scared of change, right? They're so committed to paper, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think the fear of change is, you know, kind of what it's getting at, right? Yeah. You have to like evolve with the times, right? In that sense, you have no other choice, but you're fighting it and you're pretending like you have no other choice in the other direction. But in a way, there is no other choice to exist in this system and to have your identity collapsed into this, you know, what you do, what you make, how much you earn, you know.

And that just the way the happiness is shown at the beginning of the film, I love that choice because in the book, it just starts with him. He's been out of work for like eight months or something. And he's just like, fuck, I got to figure something out. And he hatches this scheme. But in this movie, we get to see a glimpse of like that perfect, you know, ideal family life of he's living in that. You know, bought the house that he grew up in. And the way that opening scene is like the light, the way the sunlight moves with the clouds and like the leaves, it's just so gorgeous that you really get a sense of like, fuck.

Like this guy has so much to lose. And it really hammers home because otherwise it'd be like way too unsympathetic. be like, okay, this guy's just going to start killing people like, fuck this guy. It really puts you in his perspective and makes you be like, yeah, this is so, this sucks. You know, this is just unfair. And you could imagine someone being pushed to those limits. Of course, it's like all a lie. And I think something that's amazing about this movie is that it visualizes all of this internal monologue in the book.

Like the book is just like his rantings and ravings, you know, about like, this is the world. This is the world we live in. I need to defeat the competition. This is what, this is just the reality of the life we live in. We have no choice here. And the movie just like visualizes that even in showing like how he comes up with his scheme. And like one element I love is when one of the characters is seeing the advertisement

for this new paper company that this dude wrote to, you know, lure them in. And it just transitions to him speaking through the newspaper or whatever or the catalog book. Those little touches where it's just so clear. what is he's thinking and doing without it like spelling it out to us or having some kind of like voiceover narration or anything like that. It's just it's so clear and so upsetting that like when you get to the like you're really rooting for him to succeed, you know, by the end of the film. Like you're really like you want him to get away with it. It's crazy. Which is what makes the pop of the ending so

effective, you know, where he's like stuck in traffic. And it's like, yeah. Wow, man, what a win. A miserable win. But that's also kind of what's interesting about the ending is, you know, the way that rain is traditionally used in film is always just so paint by numbers by the books. Like, oh, yeah, you're doing this during like an emotional, maybe like transition between second and third act scene or, you know, misery, funeral, whatever.

At this film, it's like the, quote unquote, sad. satisfying we did it sort of ending, you know, with his family on the driveway. That's when it's choosing to use rain. And like tonally, the music and the way the characters are acting, it's like, oh, yes, we did it like satisfying, hurrah ending. But the visual choice of rain adds an interesting juxtaposition makes it feel more like a bittersweet kind of ending. So I love that choice. Yeah, I love his cinematic language.

Especially with the daughter payoff as well. Oh, I was just going to say that. With her refusing to play the cello. I just jumped on it. Yeah, that being like one of the core motivations. She needs like a new teacher. Like she's so good. She's like a savant.

That's one of the things they need money for. Yeah. And then that kind of payoff. the end when she plays for the first time in front of them. And it's almost like a anti-climax contrasted against him, then cutting to being in traffic and in this empty factory. So, well, all of it for that. Yeah. It was such an emotional moment to me, like that pay off with the music. Like, that has nothing to do with the book. That was just totally invented for this. And it's so, like, I was surprised because the movie could just lean into that farcical tone and really,

not have that dollop of like feeling and like sadness that it just settles on that that just like really hit me in such like a beautiful and like this depressing way that's like well he achieved the goals here and it's like yeah his daughter can thrive so that and now he's just like in this shitty situation that how long is he even going to have this new job six more months you know like how long is he going to survive in this system that just does not care about him um it's it's so so sad, but like, cloaked in all of this, like, dark, dark humor. I especially loved the final conversation that he has, you know, with his final kill and how that's played out. And he finally succumbs to, like, the alcohol. And it's, it's so, like, he, like, the moment when he drinks,

and he's just suddenly, like, fully, like, uninhibited. It's just kind of, like, darkly satisfying. all of the dark humor is excellent you know the the snake bite the music like blaring all they're like fighting with the gun and so many great scenes it's so it's a big a favorite I know and it's genuinely funny and clever yeah this might be well I out of the films I've seen from him this would be the funniest I'm assuming right I'm a cyborg has comedy but this is yeah so I haven't seen that one but this is the funniest for sure for me anyway also the the HBO show the sympathizer I enjoyed uh and was pretty much yeah yeah yeah it was it was pretty fun and satisfying not as good as like the films

that I love from him but still very very fun okay yeah I haven't seen that and Robert Danny Jr. was really really funny in it oh yeah he's a nice it was he playing Tony Stark sure talk to Dane Yeah. All of the posters for this film have trees or some kind of plant. Yeah, the chili plant. And they're throughout like almost every frame in this film. And then even the end credits, you know, this kind of like disturbing, foreboding almost kind of score. after we see the main character accomplishes goals,

the end credits is a bunch of trees getting chopped up by machines by like powerful, powerful hydraulic chopping, chopping, chopping, snipping machines. I'm kind of curious about the interpretations of all the plant life in this film, as if it's, you know, it might be getting at, I guess, the conflict between, you know, automation and human ingenuity and technology and industry versus nature, right? It might be getting at the idea of like our systems and the rat race of, you know, trying to thrive or survive within capitalistic systems. It might be getting

at that being kind of like an unnatural thing that's going against our nature. there's also, when you look at some of the really interesting shots in this film, some of them include like, almost kind of like hard lines or like sections between things in the frame. So when he's running back from that hilarious vinyl record scene kill, you know, there's a big wide shot showing like the two trails and the woman is chasing after him from one trail. and then he's like going around the frame and going to his car on the second trail, right? So on one end you get, you know,

like vehicle technology sort of thing. On the other end, you have like an entire forest. And I guess the trees, the paper company. Yeah, that goes on. Yeah. Yeah, there's another shot when he's like killing the guy on the highway where, you know, like half of the frame is road and the other half is like ocean.

Oh, yeah. That was a great shot. And it's separated by a mountain, right? So there seems to be some sort of clear thing that he's poking at in terms of an idea of like separation or like conflict or things existing separately being in some sort of way that is not compatible that doesn't gel, you know, trying to show the differences. That's how I feel about that. excellent shot where he picks up the pepper plant has the pot over his head and when he first gets the idea to start killing and then the water starts draining from underneath the pot into his head and this idea that is he's like humiliating himself and like what he's been led to you know so disgusting there are so many um i really like the choice to build up to with the murders you know in the book it starts out the issue is kind of like the first murder is very easy you just you just like shoots the guy in his car, you know, it just is very quick. But each murder becomes successfully more difficult and challenging and like gruesome. Like there's one murder where he has to like run a guy

over repeatedly with the car. And it's just like building to like how much can he stand and get close to this difficulty? Whereas in the movie it's kind of like escalated to how much of a cold blooded killer can he be because, you know, he doesn't even kill the first guy, you know, he shoots him in the arm. and then his wife ends up killing him. The second guy, it's like he's trying to kill him, shoot him in the back, and then he ends up, like, kind of shooting him quickly on the highway. And then the final guy, he ultimately just, like, does the most disturbing, like, murder. And, like, it's just that buildup is really effective to get us to feel.

And also, like, what he has to do with the body, you know, like, he can't, he can't chop it up. But he says, okay, like, binding it with this wire and in this, like, disgusting like sculpture like form so um yeah just it really builds our sympathies with him in a strange way because um it could have been like very alienating and it isn't necessarily and i really like that decision for the wife character who in any kind of expected story would kind of flip out when she discovers like their body and what up yeah the they've actually sides with him and kind of covers for him adds a certain level of like dark horror

to it as well because I thought oh that's when it's going to unravel she's going to like flip out and tell the cops or whatever but no it just keeps escalating that's another difference that that doesn't happen in the book nobody finds him finds out his wife doesn't find out either yeah there's uh I won't

you know spoil I won't say exactly what things but there's a lot of like Park Chanwickisms in this film you know like Quinn Tarantino has like oh trunk shot and like, you know, certain motifs are like ways of expressing things or like types of characters. There's a lot of like, you know, there's a lot of things within this film that feel like, oh, dude, this is like just Park Chanwick making like a movie for the fans. Just like little references here and there.

Yeah. Like, yeah, you'd have to see as other films. But you'd see some similarities for sure of like, oh, there's a. this type of character or this type of thing happening. Is it like a multiverse of madness situation? It's not a multiverse of madness situation. Okay. Because I'm waiting for the old boy versus no other choice

MCU event, whatever. Okay. The KCU, the Korean cinematic universe. Yeah. It's all got to be connected or else what's the point? No other choice versus parasite. Who will win? Who will win?

That's my question. Yeah, it's weird. It's funny that meme of like guy who's only seen the boss baby. Yeah. Like that applies to Korean cinema so hard because like the one that everybody's seen is Parasite. And so people go like, oh, it's very much like Parasite. I'm like, okay, no, these are very different films, very different directors, right?

Just minute similarities, right? So just expand your horizons. Watch more Korean films. This movie actually reminded me a lot of the whaling. The one other Korean movies. Yeah. No, yeah. I'm glad you saw a Park Chanwick film because it really, he is genuinely a master.

I'm so happy I did. I really did. I feel like there wasn't enough hype around. Like, I know it got positive reception. Did it premiere at Cannes or something? Venice um um no it premiered it uh like tiff and uh venice around the same time okay uh i just haven't seen the same a ton of hype around this and i'm wondering what the deal is um are people stupid yeah i don't know because well yeah well first of all yeah people are dumb and we'll see we'll see when

it gets like a wide theatrical release if people are talking about it i think it's aiming Because right now it's getting like limited release December 25th, which is why are you competing with Avatar? I don't know. But then it says January 2026 for like a wider release. I think it's expecting to get an Academy Award nomination. Yeah, almost definitely. But here's the thing. Part Chanwick has never gotten one.

This would be the time. No. Right? This would be the time for sure. But he's never gotten one and it's pissing me off. he's had tons of movies that like easily we could have said like oh yeah this would be the time i don't think it's happening this year i have no fucking idea like i'm i'm hoping he gets acknowledged for more than just you know international feature even i i don't have expectations that he would but i'm hoping

that you know the the amount of people that are sharing their thoughts about this film on like social media websites i'm hoping that gets to enough academy people to be like you know what maybe the cinematography is really good in this film maybe we should nominate it because word of mouth can do that right so I hope it I mean I'm pretty sure it'll be international nominated but I don't think it's gonna win

I think it's gonna go to that other the Iranian film it was just an accident yeah yeah have you seen that I haven't but I heard it's very good and the director is in like prison now like I've got um I don't think he's in prison now but he has been before he is a no but I think it just happened

like the government like is keeping him in the country for one year? Like they're not letting him leave. All right, what's he up to? Jafarahe, 10 hours ago. Well, I mean, this is an update from 10 hours ago. So this is a recent story, I guess. Given jail sentence while on trip to collect U.S. awards.

Award winning Iranian filmmaker Jafar Panahi has been given a prison sentence on charges of creating propaganda against the political system, as lawyer said. On the same day, his new film won a string of awards in the U.S. But now he's been handed a one-year sentence at a travel ban in Iran His lawyer said on Monday however he was in New York to pick up into three prizes Including best director of the Gotham Awards for his latest film it was just an accident which he shot illegally in Iran But now he's 65 years old has served two previous spells in prison in his home country and in an interview shortly before receiving his last sentence

That he planned to return so did he get arrested in the Surely he didn't get arrested in the US so it sounds like he's still in the US but it's like it sounds like maybe he's not allowed to now. I need a different article. Fuck you, BBC. Give me the deeds. Yeah, I don't know, but this is just a I'm sure that there's going to be updates by the time this episode's out, but...

Well, yeah, so Iran is sentencing him to prison. So, surely it was that. I just don't understand why he would, I guess... Dude should have not went back to Iran at this point. Like, he's already been in jail how many times. Yeah, I was a little surprised about that. Maybe he's got no.

No other choice. I mean, if it's only for a year at a time, it is helping build his brand. So, me. It's only a few years here, a few years there. I mean, he might win his Oscar from prison. Who knows? I mean, that would probably, that helps his chances. Being in jail for the movie you made probably helps your chances.

It probably does. Yeah. Not to be cynical like that, but, you know. Whatever, it's the fucking Oscars. They give awards for people that they feel are like, do, you know, they're like, oh, you deserve it. It's all cynical. True.

I don't think that it's going to go to Park Chanwick this year. That's why. I feel like it should a while ago. I was convinced it would go to the voice of Hindraja, but I guess that was just my experience at TIF. Everybody was crying in the theater. Wow. But you never know.

You never know. I don't know. Maybe it won't even get nominated. Yeah, no other choice. Fucking awesome movie. Like. Amazing. I feel like I should bump it up

Oh really do it You can give it a 10 Yeah we can give it a 10 Oh yeah I'm nearly there I need to see it again Three tens in one year That's a good

Yeah Good ass year I'd give it just slightly lower Four and a half star Very high Four and a half star Yeah I might bump it up

After a rewatch But man Just everything about it It's so good Love that commentary At the heart of it That spine But then complimented with that shot

Variety Zoom's tracking PIVs shots cross dissolves the the music and the lighting, everything about it. Yeah, the color grading too. Just the environment is phenomenal.

Yeah, just everything about it's phenomenal. The performances, I love all these characters. It's, uh, the dialogue is excellent. I'm sure you can attribute some of that to the book, perhaps, but, um, yeah, just so excellent. It'd be awesome if he got like an actor numb, the lead in this. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, he was, he was great. What about you, Jake? Yeah, uh, nine out of ten, I could definitely go up now. can't see it going down at all. It was just, thanks for mentioning the color grading, because as I was watching, I was like,

why don't movies look like this? It's so beautiful. It's so colorful. And it just pops, really pops. Yeah. He's always had a very, like, keen eye for that and a good feeling of intent.

Like, there's interviews for, you know, old boy back then. He's like, oh, yeah, like talking very specifically about how he wants the,

the color tone of the, film to feel and he's like oh I try to hold this camera and we need to do this and it's like okay yeah you've always kind of been on top of this and you're you're communicating feeling through that which is really really cool and yeah it looks beautiful regardless incredible and it's it's a great feeling when you actually can't think of a critique for a movie as well I love it yeah so Adam you said you have three 10 10 out of 10s this year what is the other one I know one battle is one of The Ron of the Man, the show of the movie.

February 13th. See it in theaters. Bring your friends. Yeah. I'll definitely see that. What about War the Worlds? Yeah. Oh, that one too, yeah.

4-10th. Minecraft. Okay. Great, great film. And, yeah, like, it's just next level. Yeah. It's next level. No one's, is anyone even close when it comes to, like, how his films feel from a

cinematic standpoint. Like, no one's doing this at all. He's doing it consistently. It reminded me of like peak Scorsese. Like, it reminded me actually visually in some ways of the departed. Like Scorsese, it is most energetic. That's what it reminded me of in many ways. Oh, yeah.

Cool. You know, I was thinking we should do a no other choice but for other, other movie podcasts, you know? Like, algorithmically, if we just kill them off, then it's like that people have no know with a choice but to listen to us right that's a fantastic idea we just start killing yeah why not everyone's doing it these things say that on youtube but watch out chris stuckman I'm not that's in Minecraft that's crazy also I did just want to shout out that fucking that first kill scene where the music is blare

Yeah. Just had to mention that because that's like an easy 10 out of 10 scene there. Like that's just so much fun. So energetic. And the chase to the color. I love that they're actually yelling because the music is loud. Yeah. Now I'm a big fan of the choice of like characters needing subtitles in the film for that section.

It's when they're so, the environment is so loud. what is this Alex the movie thing this is my wreck the so spoilers for the fountainhead 1949 directed by King Vidal written by Ein Rand I mean I don't know this feels like

Who cares it's 1949 I don't get Yeah but also I don't know I'm If I'm being totally honest It's not really the film that's the interesting part of this discussion I don't think I think it's an extremely dry, fucking pretty boring film. But there's just so much about Einrand, I find fascinating.

With the influence, like a ridiculously influential person in the realm of media, in the opening to this episode, I referenced the line from Bioshoek, and Manchus as a slave obeys. That was my kind of introduction to the concepts of objectivism, God's sake. But the influence goes further than that, obviously. Zach Snyder's a big one. He was actually supposed to be making a fountain hand movie as of...

Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. And it makes a lot of things click into place for me when it comes to Snyder. Because, um, there are just so many threads. Like he adapted Watchmen, which when it was written, the Rawshout character was a parody of these Randian superheroes that like Zach Snyder interpreted in like a completely kind of wrong way. And then just talking about movies of last year, like arguably the best and worst film of last year were both inspired by Rand, a brutalist and megalopolis.

Steve Jobs, like loved Atlas Shrugged and used it like a guide to his life, Mark Cuban, named his Super Yacht, the Fountainhead. Her work is mentioned in Mad Men a lot. It's like all over the place. It's all over media. So there'll be concepts and ideas that you'll probably. come across, maybe not even attributed it to her and her bizarre influence, because I mentioned this on the JARCast like a month ago or someone. And I was kind of shocked by how many Americans told me that they studied her in school,

either reading Fountainhead or Atlas shrugged. Anthem. That's a big one for younger kids. Yeah. I'm curious just on your experience with that, Jake, actually, because, yeah, what? You've got to delve into the philosophy of the story here. There's so much. Yeah, as the resident American of this podcast, there is a ton of, like, Irond.

Like, I've seen on YouTube, I don't know if you guys have seen this, but the Einrand Society or whatever it's called are like, you click on this link and we will send you a free copy of Atlas Shrug. And like they are promoting and selling literally like part of their whole thing is like these billionaires are putting money into this foundation so that they can spread the word of iron rand and give free copies of atlas shrug to schools and everything. And yeah, I mean, I didn't read Anthem, but I know that Nadia read Anthem when she was in school. And it's very strange. It's a very weird thing. And I think also modern conservatives have a weird relationship to Einrand because she,

was an atheist and she was like pro choice but also like uh very against socialism and her philosophy is insane but in a way that's like yeah like objectivism is is basically like being selfish is good and um yeah should i give a little like definition that i like noted down please um so the concept is rational self interest as the highest moral good she argued against altruism positing that living for others contradicts the principles of self-interest inherent in objectivism. Which, how do you pass that one?

I don't even understand how that makes sense in the context of the film, really. That seems very hypocritical. And like, the self-insert character and all of it, it's like, what the... What the fuck? You said that it was a dry experience watching the film, and like...

I know it dry as fuck, yeah. The movie was so entertaining to me. I was so caught up in, like, the weird psychosexual, like, tension and, like, it is such a weirdly, like, horny movie about, like, tall, erect buildings and, you know, like, Gary Cooper, like, drilling into solid granite and, like, she's, it's, it's so melodramatic and wild and weird, along with, like, every line of dialogue is just, like, philosophy of objectivism and just, like, stating the themes of the movie over and over and over. It's an insane, insane.

movie that like you said has been so influential because I do think like for a lot of artists like Coppola you know or Brady Corby it's like there is something here that is very attractive to a mind that's like I want to make my art I want my art to be made my way and it's like there's something yeah it's it's very 12 year old brain you know it's like you like you like a 12 year old watching this it's like yeah like I want to I want to make my building. I want things to be my way. Why do they have to be other people's way?

Because I like things being my way. That's like the meme, right? It's like you discover Ayn Rand when you're 15 and like smoking weed and you become like a libertarian. Right, right, right, right. But the movie is so bad at communicate. Like it's, I feel like it's always like subverting itself, maybe even unintentionally because of course, I ran rode the screenplay. But like the filmmaking, I feel like is almost making fun of it at times because of

how like how like lurid and melodramatic and and sleazy and fun it is like I just thought this movie was kind of fun to watch it's fun to watch as like a weird like kind of super weird like yeah like watching something be terrible and almost kind of like part time capsule part like what the hell are you sort of way like yeah there was some entertainment in there I didn't even think it was terrible. I thought it was kind of good. It was everybody was a fucking like cartoon character, you know? Everybody was like a weird caricature. Yeah, that's what I liked about it. It was like the hudsoaker proxy. Like no person felt like a real person at any fucking point.

Even the main character. It was like this weird like I'm the Chad meme. Oh please you show dreamy. Won't you? I will marry you if you stop being so weird about your buildings no it's um it's hilarious reading about like how upset ireng got with this film oh with the the speech in the court towards the end being massively cut down oh and what she'd written as a result she refused to ever let atlas shrugged be adapted until past her death um and even uh gary cooper reportedly didn't actually understand even like what he was saying in the speech sure. So the people in the film, they didn't even get, like, what's going on.

Because it's nonsense. It makes no sense. Yeah. Yeah. It makes zero sense. And it's so funny that that's the climax of the movie where he's, like, convincing a jury that it's, like, actually fine that he blows up a building. Like, it's so insane.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. That was so fucking stupid to me. It was like, okay, we're doing the trope of, of, like, I'm representing myself in court. And even though I haven't studied law, I'm just going to. They do such a great job because the morality is on my side sort of thing. But like it's like the film forgets that the reason why he was in court was for the blowing up a building, right? And then his entire, his entire defense is him talking about like, they breached the contract.

You didn't even fucking sign a contract. It was your friend that signed the contract. You were ghost building. You were ghost designing, architecting, right? You weren't even a part of that contract. And then even it's funny that they included this. in the film of the judge saying like, okay, everybody remember that this is about blowing up the building and nothing else, right? And then the jury is like, who cares?

Right? Like, this is, that. Completely bizarre. It doesn't make sense that his fate is decided in a positive way from the jury, because, you know, if it's supposed to be about, like, tyranny of the masses, like, what winds up saving him is the masses at the end. Isn't it? Like, it wasn't, like, a lone guy that saved him. That's why I don't understand about the philosophy. with this idea that like great men can't be ruled my best achievement a totally selfless man but it's like

you're an architect and like you're designing buildings but like how are they being built it's not like in a vacuum like true you don't exist in a vacuum it's so bizarre like yeah independent work from an independent mind um this idea that human greatness can only exist from a single individual it's just a really kind of negative awful way to view humanity also if you wanted to make a film that promotes this philosophical concept, this series of ideas, you could have a better story to communicate that. Because when I think of like, okay, there's there's a person that is being harmed by the masses and they need to be able to have their own autonomy to do what they want. You know, I think of examples like the, you know,

tropey stereotypical example of like oh the earth is not flat but everybody else says oh no it's flat and you're going to jail or whatever right like where where someone is making some sort of either philosophical or scientific discovery and they're just like ahead of their time and because everybody else is stupid then you know they get punished for it something like that dude's fucking designing buildings and it's so low stakes and there's lines in the film where it seems like from his perspective, even in the court scene, he says this shit, he's like, oh, yeah, there are points where people make discoveries and they're just so smart, much smarter than everyone else, and everybody else is so stupid that they get punished for it.

And these are the heroes of our time. And he's applying that to himself in his fucking court hearing. But he's, it's just about designing buildings. It's so low stakes. It doesn't mean anything. What are you talking? about. See, I think it's actually kind of high stakes as a concept when you see how it can be done well

in something like the Brutalus. Sure. I think actually having architect characters is a really cool idea for like storytelling and using buildings to communicate like symbols and, you know, in the case of Brutelists, like Brutalism, obviously, and the connotations that come with that. But yeah, as you're saying, this philosophy at the core of it and through the characters that explore it. I was so just like stiff and unrelatable and... They're props. Kind of creepy and...

They're not real characters. Yeah, props. The Brutus is such an interesting double feature with this because I didn't realize, now after seeing this, I'm like, oh my God, that is in direct communication with the fountain. Like the building up and like getting commissions and like building and wanting to do things in his way. But it's like that movie is so dark and it is so like, what is it really worth?

Like, what does he get from his life by behaving this way and, you know, treating his work in this way? And it really questions this mode of thinking. And, like, the fountainhead is just such a unique artifact because you do see its popularity still. Like, Iron Rann is still very popular. And you can see it in the way, like, billionaires talk about Iron Rann. Like, so many people. Like, in many ways, iron Rans philosophy has one. You see it in, you know, self-help videos of, like, the grind guys, grind culture guys who get up.

And, you know, at 6 a.m. and they throw cold water in their face. And it's like, you got to beat the competition. It's kind of like also a good pairing to like what like you see what the people on top are believing about themselves and believe in the world. And it's like it makes you repulsed and depressed because it's like in many ways we're all trying to be like Howard Rourke of or at least where there's this goal to be like we want to do things our way and not really think about others. And it's not a good thing to state that, you know, these days. And it's not, it's out of fashion. And it's interesting, too, that like, architecturally that it's out of fashion too, because you look at the architecture that he's making in the film. And it's supposed to be like daring and bold. And we look at it now. And we're like, oh, this is the kind of shit we've been living with for the past 60, 70 years that people are pushing back against because, like, there's no, like, even in that instance where it's like, well, why don't we have some balconies in our.

public housing project. Like, why? Oh, because it's nice for people to have balconies because it'd be good if you live there. And he's like, fuck that shit. And it's like, and we see that kind of attitude reflected in many ways. And the world we live in, that is just like you go outside in so many cities and it's just, it's not built for humans. You know, you don't feel a human touch.

And it just, the way it's so grossly and blatantly displayed in this film, it's, it's the, the contradictions, like how it like fails to communicate it. It's so like, I don't know, fascinating. And I'm just so happy we watch this. Yeah. It gives you like a real point of reference in context for all the, oh, like, holy shit, this influence is so bizarre. And we're living in a world where, yeah, as you're saying, we're taking it to its like extreme. We're like now in a position where if you take this philosophy to where it's gone, we're in a position where like six or seven people are making decisions that affect billions and the billions of nothing to say about it and say, why are you doing this?

Like, this is so thought. Yeah. It's, it's so fascinating to see. And, like, I was looking at King Vidor's, you know, filmography and I have seen, I guess I watched the crowd a long time ago with, like, a silent movie. But he's one of those, like, directors that came up in the silent era and made just a ton of studio films. And his career, Duel and the Sun is one of them, Stella Dallas, one of them,

in peace, but, you know, like he made like almost socialist propaganda with Our Daily Bread in 1934, which is about a socialist mini-society farming community. And it's like so interesting, like 1934 to 1949, how much the culture changed. And like King Vidor, I don't think, was like a ideological filmmaker, at least. It doesn't come across that way to me. It just, like, his ambiguity towards the subject, I think, can be felt in the fountainhead. Because although Ayn Rand is writing this dialogue, I do feel like he is making a kind of

different film that is maybe not critiquing it, but like lending some, I don't know, caricature or, or like, strange quality. Like there's Slavage Zizek, right, wait, how do you say his name? Slavoiszijek. Slavoyzijek. You got to, yeah. Yeah, he apparently said that it's like one of his favorite movies. Interesting.

He said, considers it one of his five favorite movies, ultra-capitalist propaganda, but it's so ridiculous that I cannot but love it. Sure. It's a fun. It's a unique film. Yeah. That's kind of why I wanted to recommend it. It's like Kirk Cobain having the shags in his top five. Yeah, yeah.

Next, I read a similar thing about how he was actually more known for kind of left-leaning ideas as a director. So it does make it extra curious, like, why it was made this way, why he chose to do this. I just, I find it endlessly fascinating from every angle. It's just so strange. I think it's interesting because it speaks to like an artist's sensibilities. And it's, I think it's also like Coppola, who I don't think is like a far right or a person or someone who probably loves Ein Rand. But it's like, I think it speaks to an artist to want to be like I like also with the running man. We're talking about the running man.

Like we wish that Edgar Wright was like more like Howard Rourke a little bit. And like I want to do things my way and have my vision laid out there. But when you're looking at like society and that's what this movie does. That's so hilarious is that it's like every time he's speaking about like, well, society can't be this way. We have to be elevating the ideal of the individual man over what society is telling you to do. And it's like, I don't know, maybe you can have a little bit of boat. Like, does it have to be so extreme? Like, like, Midtown.

Yeah. There are instances where it's good to like let artists do their shit. But it's also you're building public housing for others. You need to think about what people need. And it's so funny that it's like the mob is framed as the enemy and like what the the liberal press is saying about my plans. And it's crazy. I would also like to point out that these two things are not mutually exclusive.

Like you can still, especially if we're talking about art, right? In this film, the context is, oh, it's art, but also you're doing like a public service. Like you're building things that people are going to live in, right? Whereas like, if we're talking about like fucking Brady Corbe or, uh, yeah. you know, Coppola. Like, there's nothing about them, you know, being artists and having free reign to do whatever they want. There's nothing about that that's in conflict with, like, doing something for the public, right?

Those aren't conflicting ideas. So it is kind of funny that, you know, this philosophy is almost like populism for weird artist types. Yeah, because that's what's interesting about reading about Snyder's love of it, where he does see this direct parallel with making movies, kind of like making a building. And it really does make things fall into place with how Snyder presents his characters

as these kind of monoliths and how they're not really people. They're just like these weird, overdone concepts. And it explains some of that coldness, I feel, with his obsession with this. I mean, the last shot of this movie is like a Superman, you know, icon. image of Howard Rourke as like it's very funny.

He's Batman on the top of a building. He's Batman. He's Batman. He's doing vigilante justice because people don't want to build this fucking building. That shot of him is so funny. I love it. I love it. I love the weird like those shots of him in the quarry, speaking of quarries, like the brutalist also like and he's like working in a quarry and like drilling and like the shots of her like fantasizing over his like muscles drilling while he's like like you just don't see that in a lot of movies of this era

like it's just it's so why there's like such like suppressed weird like energy in this movie that's so juicy it's kind of degenerate the Dominic Franken character that is like a

that just feels like a self insert for Rand right like it she even looks like her yeah it looks like her too yes it's like a weird like self into fan fiction. Yeah. About architects.

It's Twilight. But like billionaires love it. It was genuinely, like I was entertained like the whole movie. And I do think like there are a lot of sequences that are really fun and kinetic. And it's just when they're standing there espousing their ideology is just like so laughably silly, especially that final courtroom scene. It's so, so crazy. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like the opposite of, well, it is actually in some ways like a Frank Cabra movie, except if Frank Capro like hated everyone at himself. Like it's because you see a lot of Frank Cabra movies that end with kind of like the triumphant speech about like helping your community and like it's, you know, Mr. Smith goes to Washington. It's, you know, like he was very like progressive, I guess in the slightly earlier era in like the 30s and 40s. But it's also too interesting. Capra was like out of fashion in the 40s and 50s and 60s. Like after World War 2, you know, like that shift towards like conservatism and the fear of like the Soviets and communism. It's it's so like that whole era is so fascinating to me, how immediately it flipped after

World War II because there was a lot of propaganda too in like the 30s and 40s that the Soviets were good guys because they're on our team. You know, they hate the Nazis and there was a lot of like open communist like um very like left lean in filmmaking and and art being made in like the 30s and 40s that immediately gets that like that's over that's that's done that's what's what's even more interesting about her um her impact on america with her being Russian born yeah as well yeah it's like so many like confusing contradictions that just like never ending um the more you pluck at it. That's what the whole thing. That's what the

ideology is. It's all contradictions. And that's what this movie is. I just feel like it's brilliant in how contradictory it is and silly and stupid and how influential it's been. Like I see, like you were saying,

like not just the brutalist or megaloplas, but like the Hudsonucker proxy is like there's so much in there too. I didn't understand about that. yeah it's just kind of it's really fun movie I liked it I'm glad we watched it but it is frustrating well that's what's yeah extra weird is that I found the production to be enjoyable I thought it was decently put it together it was well made um but just the core of it the the script is just like so

terrible it's crazy yeah that it's like yeah all in service of just like this garbage Yeah. A lot of moral lecturing The entire fucking movie Like everything it wanted to say Could have been done in like fucking 50 and 20 minutes But it was two hours And it was just moral lecturing

From characters that aren't characters Just say Just telling me what I should believe The entire movie Like you know This is way more Fucking preachy than any fucking woke movie in the best like 20 years.

It's unbearably preachy. Like it exists for no other reason than to preach. This is basically a religious film. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean yeah. Yeah. Yeah, some of these lines. All men are corrupt. Anyone can be bought. There is no honest way to deal with people. We have no choice except to submit

or to rule them. And that's what that bioshop line is getting at. It's just like, this doesn't really go anywhere positive when you like follow these lines, I don't think. You know, another contradiction about the movie is that like we associate I mean objectivism is like a conservative ideology but like in the film like modernism and like modern architecture that was like hated by you know like the fascists and or at least some some fascists are conservatives in that era you know so it's like modernism was uh seen as like a bad you know thing or bad uh direction so it's kind of weird that he is this modernist architect but espousing such like conservative world's view it's a strange thing and I think it's like why

this movie appeals to so many different types of people you know yeah how did you find the way the music was used um I mean I didn't at first I kind of liked the score and I think that might just be because of it's uh you know the standards for older films like oh yeah you get a full orchestra it's just it's nice and refreshing to hear but then how it was used like there was a lot of like overly serious tone where it didn't need to be there and it was doing a lot of like insistence and just like it was way more elevated than what it was showing and so it was jarring and distracting yeah it was jarring because of how dry what it's being presented is but it's got this big, like, emotional sweeping score.

Yeah. Like with the fight. Yeah. So, I don't know. This is a, this is a really weird one. It is. I'm just, I'm so surprised you recommended it. It's just. Yeah, I like throwing a curveball down again. Sam interpreted it as a spite pick, but that wasn't the intention. It was more to have a conversation about the philosophy, to be honest. And just like how we've kind, we've, like, talked around it, probably for the whole, like,

podcast, really, you know, every time we've mentioned, and criticize Snyder or Megalopolis or whatever. Just going with that, yeah, disproportionate kind of impact. Also, like, with no other choice, too, it's kind of like a good pairing and running, man, because it is kind of like the weird, dark, alternate reality. Like, we're living with this mindset of selfishness, and that's what no other choice is all about, you know, just get, let me get my livelihood and not care about anyone else taken to the extreme. and no other choice is obviously

critiquing that. And this movie is like, what if that was actually a good thing? You know, I feel like Ayn Rand would rewrite no other choice to be like, yeah, like let him murder people.

What's so bad about that? Be framed as like a good thing. He needs his job. Yeah. He's empowered by it and he's, yeah, he's a great man for doing it. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Three out of ten. It was funny bad. Okay. Yeah, I don't even really know how to rate this. It's hard. Give it a 10.

Two star? Because I do find it kind of intellectually stimulating to think through this. Yeah. But it is also too long, too dull. I kind of like some of the production and I kind of like the weird stiffness to it at points. There is something compelling about this, especially with nearly, well, not quite 100 years later, but. A significant amount of time later to the point where it's like we can see the influence and where it's gone. And it's endlessly fascinating.

Yeah. I would put it at five out of ten in the guilty pleasure category somewhat. But like I appreciate the art artistry of, you know, the filmmaking. And however, it is like basically an evil film. So five out of ten. There was one shot I quite liked where the kind of love triangle, three characters were staged around this tree, and they were all separated by the branches, which I thought was kind of a cool. Oh, yeah. This is like visualizing the triangle.

This is interesting. That was like the only real shot that stood out to me outside. The quarry looked great as well. The locations looked really good, but it's just all in service for this just awful message. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Questions?

Yeah. Yeah, let's do some questions then from the Sardunica's community. Head over to the suggestion thread over on the subreddit. If you want to leave questions for future episodes, just like proud. Can I say this? I'm going to say proud. Oh, no. What do you think about one car wise?

Can you type it and I just want to see, can you just copy paste? I just screenshot it. I just want to know what we're doing with me. My, my, so. proud misogynist I don't know man but they say

what do you think about Wonka Wai's recent allegations do you guys know anything about this? Tell me I vaguely heard about it because I have an article here from the word

world of real I'll chuck it in the discord so you can read along I'll read it for the audience too I guess Wonka Wai faces career ending backlash in China as blossom scandal explodes So Wonka-wise, filmmaking Korean China is probably over.

I truly don't know how he gets out of this with his reputation intact. The slow-burning disaster surrounding Blossoms Shanghai, which is supposed to have its North American premiere on the Criterion Channel next month, has now reached a point where it's hard to see how he recovers from this. At the center of it is Gouet, a little-known screenwriter who says he wrote substantial portions of the Blossom script while being paid just 3,000... What is it? Is it yen? Like a Chinese yen?

I don't know. I don't know how you say it. I've never actually thought about what their currency is, a month. Not as a writer, but as Wongarwise personal assistant, according to Gu. He was responsible for everything from script drafts to cooking meals, all while coping, with increasingly debilitating ALS symptoms for three years. He tried to resolve the issue quietly, facing again, according to him, stonewalling legal pressure and attempts to bury his claims.

His patients ran out, and then came the leaked taped. Tapes, sorry. As the day went on, the releases became significantly more damning. In the later recordings, Wong can be heard talking about setting up a boot camp for aspiring writers, with a clear implication that he'd then steal their work. Both Wong and Kin can be heard acknowledging that Gu had written most of blossoms, contradicting the official credits entirely. They also made a range of sexist comments about women and about female audiences,

remarks that have spread widely across Chinese platforms. The recordings depict Wang publicly belittling goo, mocking his condition, humiliating him for sport, even as Gu's ALS symptoms worsened. By the time the most recent tapes were released, public opinion in China had decisively turned. I don't even think what I've written so far is what will get one cancelled in China. What's more likely to be the culprits is that the tapes also contain disparaging comments about the Chinese government and its COVID-era policies.

Wong reportedly described the CCP as a greedy one-party state that alone is often enough to end a filmmaker's mainland career. Combined with the rest, it's difficult to imagine a path forward for him in China. He's also said to have remarked that the CCP has no compassion and only knows how to reap people's lives like crops. What's bizarre is how quietly the story has landed outside of China. The story has tet to trily travel to Western countries. Yet is the word they were supposed to say. Right, yeah, a little error there. And trially, I don't know what trially, what, okay, what the hell?

Who wrote this? Nobody fucking like proofreads their shit. Anymore this has been out since November 13th. What the fuck? Yeah. I see this shit all the time in articles. That's annoying, right? Yeah.

So that sucks Yeah, we'll see I don't fuck it I don't speak Chinese So the question is How will it affect his career And also have we heard about it And what do we think

Just what do you think about These recent allegations Yeah, I don't know I'd have to like hear the leaked tapes too Yeah There is a link in this article If you want to like check it out later Or something

Has he like responded No yeah I see I just I don't know If I should be listening to that As we're recording right now No I'm gonna be cynical here But like

It sounds to me like, yeah, it will affect, like, materially, him being able to make films in China, right? Like, that seems like a legit thing, especially criticized in the government. However, I feel like most, at least Americans, would see an article that's like allegations against Wang Kar Wai, and then they click on it, and it's not like some kind of horrible sexual abuse. Then they're immediately like, oh, this is not. a big deal. Like, I do think there's kind of like an attitude that's like there are so many

like horrible, powerful filmmakers still making movies today that this just comes across, even though it's not great, it just comes across as like, oh, that's not that bad. At least he's not a pedophile. That's literally like the bar. Like the president of the United States of America. That is the bar. At least. At least he's not in the top five most prolific pedophiles of recent memory. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that sucks.

That's probably why it hasn't had a bigger impact over here. Yeah, it doesn't seem like anything. The window has shifted. The standard is very high now. Yeah. But I guess as far as it relates to him, the stuff about him criticizing the Chinese government, that sucks. the other stuff is impossible to defend, you know, the stealing and the bellicit. Sexism.

That's all obviously awful. I'll see if there's ever like an official statement from him or his lawyer. Is that something that's happened? I haven't seen. I'd have to do more research. Yeah. Like, we'll see how it develops. Like right now I have no idea.

Maybe I'll look into it later. I don't know if I have time to. Because if I look into something, it's a fucking deep dive, you know? And I don't have time to do another deep dive right now. Yeah. Yeah. A bunch of cinephiles deciding whether to pick up the criteria in Wongar-Wi box set or not, you know, during the sale. People are on the edge of the city.

I remember there was a quote that came out about Ingmar Bergman loving Hitler? And everyone was like, oh, why did I get the, why did I get the Bergman box set? I don't know. It's also the director's not the only person that made the movie. Yeah. Right? Like, I mean, we could make arguments against the platforms. that the directors are being hosted on as well, right?

Mm-hmm. Like, Spotify is kind of shit, yeah. I mean, yeah, you can follow this endlessly as far as, you know. It's, yeah. It's come up constantly on this show, this idea of like removing the art from the artist. Yeah, it's murky. If you can do that or not. Yeah, everyone is there in kind of limits there.

Um, what about this one then from the dark UCF night? Do you all feel pressure as YouTube film critics to have a healthy, film diet as a normie myself even I sometimes have anxiety about watching too many new releases versus classic films not having seen all of hitchcox filmography not watching enough non-american films etc any experience or advice for this feeling personally i don't i don't know i don't think that's what's important about enjoying filmmaking is like a checklist of things that you feel like other people feel like you need to have seen yeah yeah so you should just be enjoying the art form for what you want from it right like it's sure like there's there's a

always going to be something that I haven't seen that someone else has or some classic that I haven't. Like there's always going to be a case, you know? Yeah. I feel like that's part of what's nice about YouTube though, right? Where, yeah, maybe the standard, if you're like a film critic for The Guardian or something should be maybe something different. But like YouTube's so flexible, I feel that you could even have a platform of someone who's barely seen anything. And their whole channel is about like, yeah, I'm getting caught up now and you're doing it with your audience or something. I don't know, it's just not that serious to me.

There's channels that only talk about animation. Yeah. Pick your niche and go into it. And that's just their thing. Yeah, that's their, that's their, that's their specialty. Or like horror or whatever. And it's, it's kind of interesting because, yeah, there is that expectation when it comes to, like, people that talk about film. And it's not like an invalid thing to believe it.

It's not an invalid perspective to have, you know, there definitely is a benefit. to having more of a comprehension of like the building blocks of what film is today and how it came to be, you know, trends and restrictions even from certain time periods like the Hayes Code, right? Milestones for techniques and expression or technology. Like that's all beneficial information. But if you're watching movies for your own enjoyment, don't watch anything that you don't enjoy. or that you feel like no one no one should make you feel obligated to watch something that you have no interest in right in the same way that like no one should force me to watch marvel movies or star wars except we do force you yeah well yeah i'm only only so often you're able to do that

right can only push you so far yeah like if if you find more enjoyment out of contemporary foreign indie films, whatever you want. In my personal experience, like, yeah, there's older films that I need to check out and there's always going to be. And I, you know,

I check them out occasionally at my own comfort. And yeah, the last one I fucking loved to pieces was high and low, which was a great, yes, great pick, great Carasawa film, but not all of them connect with me.

You know, and people, people think that, like, because I don't connect with, like, every older film in the way that I'm allegedly supposed to, according to, like, their film studies class, they think that that means that I have, like, a bias against a generation. But I'm willing to bet. I'm willing to bet that, like, if you look at, if you look at, like, the percentage of my ratings, like, okay, how many films do I love and hate from any decade? it's either going to be like better the older that it gets or not any different. Because like older films, I'm not seeing like random butt fuck, you know, random thing that happens to be in theaters that people are talking about.

You know, there are classics that I don't connect with and that's fine, but there are from any generation. I mean, I agree in some ways, but I also do think like we have this strict idea of like taste as being a, a hardened thing that you're just kind of you're born with and they can't really grow and change. And I think it's benefits everyone to think of your taste as flexible and can be changed.

And it's like I don't think people should have shame about like not seeing certain films or exploring the art in some way. And I think that people can be annoying on both sides of it, you know, you see the people who are like, I don't want to watch a three-hour Eastern European film about a rat, you know? Like, and then you see people on the other end who are like, if you haven't seen all of these, you know, 70s black exploitation films, then you aren't a real cinephile. Like there are, it's like a range of being obnoxious that a person can be. And it's like at the end of the day, like, I do think the more you immerse yourself in like an art form or read about it or watch more movies, like, yeah, you're going to have a different relationship to it and have a better be able to speak on it in a better way. It's kind of like with the, you know, Korean cinema.

Like I, in that subject, like, I'm a novice and I'm learning and I want to explore more in those films. And I don't, maybe now the whaling isn't like totally something that I connect to completely. But watching more Korean films, maybe I will be able to. And in the meantime, it's like, I can talk to Adam and be like, hey, like, what does this, like guide me in a fun way? And I think it's good to just kind of humble yourself to the idea that there's so much out there that, can alter your taste. So, I don't know. Yeah.

And I feel like most often when people are aggressive or weirdly not understanding towards people that, you know, haven't explored a certain aspect of films in ways that, like, you know, maybe they should. it's just a lack of understanding of time existing, right? Where it's like, okay, yeah, if you're watching a lot of movies and you're watching a lot of new movies, then yeah, it's a little difficult to like, you know, to have seen all of the classics because there's a lot. Or seen all of every single generation or film movement. But that being said, it is good and it is healthy to try and go outside your comfort zone, right? I want to explore some like French new wave shit, right?

You know, I want to explore some 70s black exploitation. I intend on doing more of that at some point in time. I'd love to check out, you know, a variety of filmmakers. You know, I'm not allergic to it. I'm not averse to it. I don't think that they're lesser. It's just, you know, I'm, there's a, there's a lot, a lot of new foreign independent films that need attention right now.

More people need to know about the things that are happening right now so that we can get more films from these filmmakers, right? If something's already solidified as a classic and being, you know, taught as examples in, in film studies classes, they've already fucking made it, right? And so I see a lot of value in trying to use my voice on the internet, having a platform,

by helping other artists that kind of need help right now that haven't made it. And they're making good, substantial, you know, meaningful, different, daring, interesting art. Like, yeah, that's important to me. So that's where my priorities are. Yeah. And all of these decisions are,

opportunity cost and I don't know it's one of the things I love about doing this podcast is like if you look at the list of all the the variety of films and all the hosts being from different countries and everything and all these different perspectives that's what I find valuable I just I don't know just using it as a way to discredit someone's opinion because if you don't if you disagree or don't like it and I don't know there's more to it I feel yeah yeah expand expand your media diet in ways that you can and as long as you acknowledge that there are weak spots that, you know, if you want to eventually try and,

you know, experience more from any of your weak spots, that's a good thing. You don't want, you don't want to be so closed off to your own brain and experiences, right? You don't want to, you don't want to be a person that's like, why would I ever watch a foreign film? And then next thing, you know, you're getting clowned on for saying the Oscars went woke because Parasite won. and you don't even understand what the world is, right? Or you think all modern movies are bad or something. Like, that's a limitation of your perspective. Yeah.

Like, maybe if you acknowledged or maybe if you understood that that's what was fueling that, then you could do something about it, you know? Mm-hmm. What about this one from Mustad Fan 2002? What do you guys' thoughts on the integration of Fortnite into the promotion of one battle after a, another and more recently the kill bill whole bloody affair re-release i find it interesting that with the latter they're saying it's based around a cut section of the film so have you seen this this like animated

quentin tarantino killbill was short this like in fortnight for some reason because like the skins are in the game now or something yeah have you watched it i uh i don't play fortnight Maybe Should I look and see if somebody Recorded on YouTube? Is it out now? There must be like a Official upload or something

It'd be crazy, right? Finally, Quentin's 10th film Well, I'm going to be seeing The Whole Bloody Affair this week Most likely. Yeah, you know what? There's no fucking Vancouver showings. Ooh.

Yeah, and it's not not in Canada. There's like one in Toronto. What the fuck? Lionsgate owns it right now, right? They're a fucking Vancouver company. You fucking assholes? Do they not have distribution rights to this? I don't know what the hell's going on.

So I'm like, yeah, I was very excited for this to be released theatrically. And I don't know if I have time to like just drive down to Seattle again. Come watch it with me. Yeah, maybe. But I'll think of it. Like, I'm just, I'm not making plans

for that right now. So I might just wait for like digital, which is so annoying because I was so excited to see in theaters. why the hell would you do this? I'm pissed. So are they adding the Fortnite sequence to the film? No. Like what?

Okay, this is a separate thing. Yeah. Okay. Is there anything added? So it's only, the thing in Fortnite is only in Fortnite is my understanding. Because I know they're adding some stuff to the whole bloody affair. Like it's four hours and 20 minutes.

I didn't do a deep dive. I didn't look into it. Now, I'll report back. I'll report back. So if you just search like Kilboeuf, Fortnite on YouTube, the first result is 9 minute 46 second long thing, I guess. It's kind of like a low frame rate, spiderverse style action scenes. It's really fucking weird.

Like, I don't get it. And they're in like, Fortnite's dance. Last chapter, Yuki's Revenge, full movie 4K. Okay, surely, yeah, this animation's not going into the whole bloody affair. But I think there's some like 2D animation sequences that they've been. added to the old bloody affair. I don't know how much extra footage there's going to be. Yeah, like 30 minutes or something.

Yeah, because I'm scrolling through this and it's got like actual like Fortnite characters in it. It's like a shark head and a bug guy and like a banana. Such a weird thing. I don't. I love just like CGI Fortnite characters just to be like in the background all throughout the movie. Yeah, yeah.

That's the addition. It's crazy that everything's Fortnite now. Everything is Fortnite. Yeah, I don't get it because you wouldn't think that the target audience of Fortnite would be into like a killbill skin, right? Or one battle after another. It's where the world's give a fuck about like kill Bill? Like, I don't know.

What is marketing these days anymore? I genuinely think they don't know. They're trying to get the last demographic that's not on Fortnite. Right. Yeah. They're trying to lure us in. They're trying to trick us. when we're going to see like

Einrand in Fortnite it's gonna happen well once once they get the film the cinema crowd in Fortnite then they'll start doing island

Atlas drugged in Fortnite yeah what the fuck until everyone's in Fortnite there's nothing really interesting about I don't want to watch this short I don't even think I'm gonna watch it

yeah like what the hell it doesn't even though like Emma Thurman's like in it it's I'm trying to see if it was actually directed by Tarantino

I can't really see but um just a very strange project to exist. But I guess that counts as like a win. It's like the biggest platform basically to have your thing signal boosted. I don't know. I don't even know what's say at this point, but the fucking Fortnite thing once they started adding like Terminator and alien and predator and it's like whatever. Like fuck it, put Kilbo in it.

Who cares? Who cares? Everyone, I guess. I don't fucking know. It's still better to me than how they tied in the last Star Wars movie into Fortnite. What did they do? They did like, it's off screen like in the movie there. Like somehow Palpatine returned.

He left a broadcast. And it's like in Fortnite before the movie even came out. And that's when I knew shit was going down. I was like, fuck. Like an important part of the story was in Fortnite that you had to watch. Like that's not a good sign. That's crazy. Yeah.

The dead speak, literally, in Fortnite. Cabo fish Tacco, 22, has one. I was wondering your thoughts on people being disruptive in theaters. If you say something to them, what's your go-to method? Do you think the problem's gotten worse since the pandemic? I was in a theater recently where I was the only one not talking. It was Zootopia 2. And between that, you mean Zootropolis, right?

Between the high school is going on about Judy Hopps being thick and a guy answering his phone. It feels like being disruptive is the majority now. And I've had this happen in indie movies too, so it isn't just big Disney stuff. So I actually saw Zootropolis too today. Nice. And it was an example of disruption, like, just not being an issue for me because it was just like, obviously there are much of kids in the theater and they're like having fun and that doesn't bug me. It's more when it's like you're watching something serious or like a good ass horror movie and people are just fucking around and ruining the vibe. It depends on what the film is to me.

Yeah. Because sometimes disruption can add to the film if it really fucking sucks. It can give you like another level of entertainment. Yeah, true. If you don't want to be disturbed strats, try to go for the earliest shows possible. Yeah. That's generally a way to do it. Avoid mall theaters.

Because a lot of people in malls are not there for any. particular reason other than to kill time and then they see a movie theater they go oh let's see what's playing and they're not there to watch the movie they're there to kill time and so you know if literally just like that that's that's the most likely scenario for getting like teenagers that are just they're there because they're bored so yeah try keep those two things in mind and you'll have better experiences yeah it depends on the movie depends on where you live i mean i live on the edge of a civilization in the suburbs and it's like most of the movies I go out to see, nobody is there.

So, um, it's really just kids' movies. Uh, speaking of Zootopia, did, did you see that? Did you guys see Zootopia too? I did. Mm-hmm. I saw it today. I saw it today. I saw it in a theater filled with only furries.

Okay. Because I kept thinking about the, you know, the horse character. There's a, what about him? Mm-hmm. No, just there's a prominent horse character. character and I didn't know if furries had thoughts about Zootopia. I'm happy that there's finally some Hoof representation in the Zootopia Cinematic Universe because that was left out of the first film.

You know, it's kind of funny. So there's the big additions to the Zootopia universe, they're like, okay, we're having this subplot about like lizards or whatever. So we got a snake main character. and then we're also throwing in a horse. Guess what zodiac calendars were in right now and about to be going into in China. Wow.

Right? Yeah, we're going from, we're going from like snake to horse or horse to snake, I forget. But it's happening in February. So it was like very well coordinated in time. And also Zootopia too is now... It's breaking box office records in China, right?

Yeah, no, it's the first. first American film ever to make $100 million in one day in China. Crazy. Whoa. Yeah, it's going to be one of the biggest films of the year. Oh, yeah, no, it's breaking records right now. I mean, it's universally appealing. I enjoyed it.

I enjoyed it. It's crazy how China is, like, essential to movies success these days. And I wonder if China building up their own filmmaking has been a huge detriment to the Hollywood system because it's like. you can't rely on like Chinese audiences seeing your movies anymore in the same way you could

in like the 2010s it seems like Mm-hmm That was the way you got to a billion Yeah Yeah It's just not the same anymore Yeah

Yeah Disney family type movies Are more of a safe bet Like what is the most What is the highest grossing film of the year It's what is it called Like Nasha Naja Naja 2 right

Yeah Yeah Yeah I hadn't even heard of that That was like what That's crazy Crazy. It's a sequel. Yeah.

What was the question? Oh yeah. Movie audiences. Yeah, I mean, yeah, just avoid. Avoid people at all costs. That's my life. Film festival audiences are usually great. There's some exceptions.

Yeah. Like Tiff has great audiences. The only like film festival thing to watch out for people like trying to sneak pictures or something. Yeah. That's the only thing I've seen at some of the screenings I've gone to. Well, watching movies has become a passive entertainment. So, like, I think a lot of young people generally, they go to the theater and they're like, all they know is talk during movie and be on phone and be bisexual and eat hot chip, you know? And lie.

And lie. That's, and lie. And lie. Well, it's funny because that's affecting how certain, especially streaming shows are being put together with like stranger things, being the, latest one. What you can tell with how it's, um, edited with like these sound effects that are constantly going like, it's like, oh my God. Hey, get off your phone. Look at the screen. You watch, did you guys both watch Stranger Things the new one? No. Well, I have. Okay. Yeah. Um, I tried watching season one twice, never made it past episode four. Okay. The new season is kind of ass. It's, it's not great. I've seen all of it. So. And that's even for stranger things like. Jake,

cut out a little. Repeat yourself. Oh, sorry. I'm saying it is ass. It is ass. Yeah. How, what, okay, at what point in the stranger things timeline, did you start being like, okay, this isn't that great?

Season two. From the beginning. Okay. And you've both watched all the way up to season. You're just like, you've got sunken cost fallacy and you're continuing to watch. Yeah. Okay. And you haven't watched castration movie anthology one traps.

Oh, my. My God. Okay. Well, I was only watching it because Nadia wanted to watch it. Yeah, sure. We were watching it together. You should tell Nadia about castration movie. You know, I think I will, and I will record her reaction for you.

It's good. No, she might like it. Yeah. Uh-huh. Strange things. You know, it's not that dissimilar in length to the upcoming Avatar film that you're both excited about. And that I will be watching for your sake. Yeah.

You're welcome. I would appreciate if you recommended it for us to watch. Yeah. Because we only got a week between this episode and the next one. And it's my turn. Do you want me to recommend it now or it's something shorter? I mean, you can do as you please. I mean, be your own Howard Rourke.

Would it fit with your schedule? See, I'm considerate of other people. Of course. Would it work in your schedules? I'd make it work. I'd be fine with watching it. I'd figure it out. Watch it in sections.

Okay, okay. Yeah, go with your heart. This video, this one from B, B, B, D, 4116, who says, can a film stop being a cult film? To me, it almost seems weird to talk about movies as widely known and beloved as say, Le Big LeBos, oh my God, I can't speak today. The Big Lobowski and Rocky Horror Picture Show

has cult films anymore due to how massively popular they've become over time. Is cult status something that just sticks, forever, or is it something that can fluctuate over time? Yeah. It's kind of an interesting query. It's a marker of coolness. I think, like, once you're a cult film, even for no matter how short of a time, it's

like that's part of your, you know, legacy, even though, like, they aren't currently cult films because they were, it's like, that's always a marker of coolness, I think. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if you can really shed it, but it also is something different when, like, the Big Lobowski's referenced in like Avengers Endgame or something, you know? It's like, oh, right.

This thing was like a flop and found an audience over time has now changed perception. Yeah. What exactly is a question specifically? Can a film stop being a cult film through it being so broadly popular that it doesn't really, it's not this like hidden gem anymore like a Rocky Horror or Bigelowski? No, because I, I feel. The context of when it came out, I feel like is what... Yeah, I feel like it describes, like, how it came to be popular or not, whether or not it's currently popular.

The history of it. Maybe. I don't know. I would have to look up the definition. It's kind of semantic. Yeah, it might be not important. It's a bad question. Yeah, I don't think it's that important. Because, like, that happens anyway. When anything gets popular enough, then, you know, starts to become cool to...

hate on it one way or another like um i see constant hate for everything everywhere all at once people like really turn on that film yeah i hate that movie we know you d but you're wrong i know

it's my anti-normy opinion i have a few of them you know mm-hmm you gotta have some yeah and i guess kind of on a similar note can man one two one two one two says does originality

have a limit And do you think films are destined to become more and more derivative over time? I don't know. I don't know. What's a truly, truly, truly original idea? Something that's never been done before. I don't think it exists, right? There's always a reference point.

It's all building blocks on top of each other. Yeah. It's just a matter of how derivative you make it. Ask Howard Rourke. If originality had a limit as if it was like a finite resource of ideas and ways to do things, then we would have hit it by now. But we're still seeing films and other art pieces evolve over time, right, and do things in original ways. Castration movie Anthology One, Trapps is an original film.

Let's go. It's an original film. We would have hit it by now. Right? Sure, it's inspired by other things. But you wouldn't have got that without Tobolly plea, you know, without the critic. You wouldn't have got what it came out to be, you know? Yeah.

Well, that's for the second film that is out now. I just have to watch. Right. I was not this month. I think originality exists just in relation to the culture. It's around, I mean, everything, I mean, nothing is original. Everything is from somewhere else. We all exist in society and we're all products of everything that we consume.

And I mean, it's like, I think originality is something like that I remember feeling and being concerned about when I was like young and like writing stories. I mean, like, I got to be, make sure it's original. and then I'd see something and be like, oh my God, someone had my same idea about a dystopian society and it's like not original anymore. And it's like that is, that should never be like a concern. Like that's being original is nothing's original. So you just got to shed that and just do a degree.

To a degree. Yeah. Like it's good to try new things and be influenced by unique things. But it's like at the end of the day, if you're concerned about like your idea being original, then it's, it's probably, like,

it's not going to live or die by the idea alone. Like, it's about everything else you bring to it and the execution. And I think that's far more important and an idea of original. What's your voice? Yeah, yeah.

All right. I like this one from bleach shots. It's a selfish one, then. Question for Alex. This one's not movie related, a bit more of a music question. You've mentioned in past episodes

that you like gorillas. And as a big fan, I set up the band, not the animal. Yeah. I do like Gorillas the animal too, actually. As a big fan myself, I'm curious, what are some of your favorite songs?

Every one of their songs is such a unique sound, and I feel like most guerrillas fans end up with a very different top pick. Personally, my top three, Orionston and I is Sleeping Powder and Silent Running. We'd also love to hear Adam and Jake's thoughts, too, if they're familiar with guerrillas. If I had to pluck, like, three, like they did,

off the top of my head, I'd say, November has come, Empire Ants, and Desolet. those will be ones to shout out. Yeah, I think they go in line with me and my love of animation and seeing those music videos on MTV. It was like so the Jamie Healer art and everything was like so seminal for me. And they're still releasing good stuff, like the latest singles for the album that's coming out next year

has this cool kind of Asian influence, really loving it. Yeah, they're quite important to me, even if they have some ups and downs as far as far as. these albums. Are you guys familiar? Yeah. I, I,

when, uh, Demon Days came out, that was like a big, you know, it was a part of my rotation for sure. Like, it's an album that I enjoy,

like a full album. Um, and I even remember there was one point where like, before that point when they were just doing, I don't know if they were doing like, what would be considered like demo material, but like, they,

they were doing some stuff that like got some attraction. And I, I remember playing like a flash game of some weird, like, kind of armored vehicle. Sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah, there are loads of cool stuff like that, like all the transmedia stuff. And it just was a loop of one of their like early tracks and just like driving around and loop to loops or whatever. That's right.

Yeah. Yeah. I thought about that forever. Yeah. Yeah. That was like a big thing for me. And then yeah, yeah, I enjoy Demon Days a lot. I was checking out their music videos.

I liked dare from that a lot. Yeah, a great song. It was kind of cool to see Feel Good Inc. become like a classic so instantly. Like, you know, it's like, okay, yeah, this is on every karaoke thing that you could have. Like, yeah, any karaoke business is going to have this song accessible. Very, very classic. And, yeah, plastic beach came out and I was like, I don't care.

And then now I'm... I love plastic beach. Yeah, I know. People love it. I haven't, like, given the full album another shot yet, but I do like on melancholy Hill now. That's in my rotation. Great song.

And then beyond that point, I haven't checked out anything more recent. I've just been, you know, there's casually listening here and there, but enjoy. them overall. It's just a combination of influence I can't get enough to have like Markey Smith, Lurie, Little Dragon, Mozdef on the same album. It's just like, so experimental and weird and all these different genres mashed together and smashed together. The weirder they are, the cooler they are, like the Desolet song I mentioned. It's like French for Sorry, I think. And there's this like amazing French singer on it. So it's like, all these influences and I would never. It's like how I found

M.F. Doom was through Demon Days. I love that like collaborative DNA there. What about you, Jake? You must have feel like the right age to have at least seen a thing here and there from guerrillas. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I have never heard of

gorillas. I genuinely have no idea. You've got to press on you. Oh wait. So that's not their big yet. Um ha ha ha feel good shake it shake it

feel good you never heard that song maybe so you know like the creepy animated band boom boom boom boom boom

boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom boom have heard it no but I like you guys singing

in how many tunes you should keep yeah you'd like demon days it's like uh analysis

of like post 9-11 shit. Like it's a very... Oh, I'm on it. I'm on it. You grabbed me. That's funny. Should we do one more here? Sure.

Yeah. What are you fancy. I'm on this one from We Shall Mate now. These fucking names are. Do you guys remember the first time you were recognized by a fan? How did it go? I was trying to rack my brain on this and I remembered this like really stupid thing. I did in hindsight because I like didn't have my face anywhere online I went to Trafalgar

Square in London like right dead in the center and just like I was there with my friend at the time and just like tweeted yeah I'm like here you know I'm like here just like come see me I don't know why the fuck I thought that was a good idea oh my god some people just showed up oh no it's awesome and just like it's really funny in hindsight probably the most normal fans Fair, yeah. There's definitely a memorable experience, for sure. Luckily, no one Durence showed up. It was like, fine, but I would not do that now.

That's awesome. Yeah, people are weird. Yeah. My first experience was before I even had my film review channel. Someone noticed me at a coffee shop in Edmonton. I think it was like a Starbucks. I was like on my way to, a job or something.

And someone was like, oh, I love Dark Ocean films, which was like my dumb fucking skit, YouTube thing when I was a kid. I must have been like 15 years old when that happened. I was like, oh, thank you. What? It was so weird. And that was my first experience.

And it wasn't even like that popular of a thing, but I guess it was like people were sharing it in the local community more so than. That's fun. You know, others. What about as a like YMS fan? Do you remember? Um, yeah, like, uh, just at restaurants or whatever and it started happening.

Yeah. Yeah, nothing like too crazy or insane. Mm-hmm. What, you, Jake? Yeah, the first time was when, like, like the first week we moved out to Seattle, actually, we were out eating at a restaurant and someone that was like crossing the street and was like, oh, you're making anything or whatever. That was the first time.

That was like a couple years ago. But since then, there's been more times. Yeah, and I'm not going to lie. It feels great every time it happens. I mean, people are usually very polite. I haven't had any bad experiences. People have always been very nice and stuff. And I also think people generally won't like come up and talk to you if you're with

your family or stuff. Like I have a weird thing now where it's like if I go to Costco on a, a busy day. And it's like literally the last time I was at Costco, I came home and I was looking at like recent YouTube comments. And there were two comments that were like, were you just at Costco? I'm like, no comment. But yeah, no, it's always been very nice. And like, especially when I'm like, like one time I was with my mother-in-law and she was like, oh, wow, you must be famous. You know, so it feels good. Yeah, I've had people approach me while I'm like, with my family. It's often at like

live music. Like when I saw it was a few years ago, a bunch of people came up. Yeah. That's quite nice. A few months ago, actually, I was buying like a jumper in a shop. And as I was buying it, the guy was like, yeah, I like your videos. And he gave me like an 80% discount on the... Oh, nice.

Which is pretty fine. Nice. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, depending on the event or the type of thing, if it's like an art thing, it's more likely to happen. Like a concert. Death Crips in Atlanta, that was a lot. of people that noticed me.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was wild at TIF when we were both, though. Yeah, always a load at Tiff. I went to the, like, Nordic History Museum, like, two days ago. And it's so quiet there, and someone went up to me whispering, hey, are you? I'm like, yeah. I took a picture.

It was kind of funny. I think it's nice as, like, you know, because we're online and it's like, it's weird because, like, you know, you know, like, consciously people are watching and commenting, but it's like your, your brain doesn't register that those are people, you know, in the same way as like when someone comes up to you. And so it does feel a little bit like, oh, wow, this person actually has seen what I've done. It's a very, it's nice, you know, because in general, you're just like- You're all Russian bots. You're like human beings. Exactly. No, well, that's how my brain works, where I'll see negative comments as like, wow, this is what everyone thinks. And then any nice comment,

I'm like, that's a bot. That's a fucking bot. Or someone with BBS. Well, that's most of my viewers lovingly affectionately. I like on mobile. You can like click on someone's name and see if they've made other comments. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's very useful.

You can find your best hates is that way. Because then I can tell if it's legitimate criticism or just like a brigade. Like, oh, this is your first comment and you're saying you've been a fan for like a billion years. Oh, what a coincidence. Your first comment. It's actually really helpful. Yeah. Yeah.

Or you've made 10 other comments and they're all on this same video. They're all on this same video saying the exact same thing and you're just like spamming people in replies. It's like, okay, all right, well. Of the same comment across many videos. No, not to take that one seriously. Yeah. All right. Yeah, I think we did it.

Those are some good questions. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, I guess it's my recommendation. Yeah, what are you going to do? You've really, Jake, you've thrown me such a curveball here. Did you have something in mind before that? I did have something in mind, but it's not like, you know, it's not,

maybe one of you will recommend it. I was going to do like a Christmas movie, but I mean, we would, we would land more on Christmas from whoever's recommending next. Me. Maybe I'll, yeah, maybe I'll, since you, um, since you, uh, suggest it or, what do we say here? Since you sparked an idea for me of a suggestion for a recommendation for mine, I think I'll go with it and then I'll also tell you in case you want to do that next week, because I think it might be something that you might want to recommend also. Does that make sense? I'm scared overall.

Are you regretting? No, I've just been scared because I feel like a reckoning is coming. I recommended Thorloven Thunder, and I know that caused severe... Oh, you think castration movie is a spite wreck? No, no, no, no, no, I don't... If that's what you're recommending. No, the Christmas movie was a good thing. I genuinely think you would probably maybe also recommend it, maybe, I don't know.

Oh, okay. It's the Polar Express. No. No, not every good... No, no, no, no, like exclusively at Christmas. Anyway, yeah, if I get it, castration movie, you guys failed society by not watching it before I recommended it. Okay.

had every opportunity to be a part of... I'm excited to watch this, actually. Yeah, no. I go nothing against it. I know. Yeah, yeah. You just let down the trans community as all. Yeah.

This is good. I'm excited. I'm a little worried about it being along, but we're just watching part one, right? Yeah. Okay. I mean, like, yeah, part one is over four hours, but you can watch it segmentally. You can watch it in chapters. There's a, you know, there's an intermission.

there's there's distinct chapters first chapters like 90 minutes basically okay and you can yeah you can watch it at your own pace you can watch it over however many days you want and so yeah so yeah castration movie anthology won traps and they've louise I think she recently changed the title

to more of like a cluster fuck so it's not just traps anywhere but anyway So, to get this movie, just search castration movie Gumroad. And you'll find the film on Gumroad. The link is louiseward.gumroad.com slash L slash castration movie. I think that's L. But if you just Google castration movie Gumroad, you'll find it. It's like $5 Canadian.

So like three bucks US. And you get both films. And I believe. the upcoming two other films that are being released like next year and the year after. Oh, that's a student. So it's literally like the best value for buying a movie you could possibly get right now. And it's great.

Great. Awesome. Yeah. And I rewatch this recently and I, yeah, maybe I'll, maybe I'll watch part two before the next episode. Maybe I'll do that because I've seen the first one twice and it's pretty fresh. Oh, yeah. All right.

We're finally doing it. Thanks, Jake. Yeah. No, I'm happy. And I'm excited to watch this. And I do, I think I lost most of my goodwill with this community that I've been coasted on since joining with Thor Love and Thunder. So it's like, I've got a course correct a little bit here.

Okay, okay. You got to nudge me in the right direction. They actually loved that discussion. I had fun. I had fun with that discussion. To be fair. Yeah, it was good. Yeah, it turned out better than I could have possibly imagined.

Thank you, Tycho Wait, TV. If you don't want to get spoiled for castration movie Anthology One Traps, watch it before the next episode. These episodes come out every two weeks, and you can listen to them early. Go to sardonicast.com, sign up for premium, or patreon.com slash sardonicast. Or click the join button below for YouTube members, and I keep seeing people being confused. about why there's no like background play for members videos. Doesn't matter. That's YouTube doing it.

And the workaround is you click on the community posts tab and you'll find an unlisted video where you can do background play. It is ad-free and you can access it by being a member because you can do members-only posts. So we've had to do a workaround because YouTube's dumb, but still get the same thing. Also, sadly, it's just due to some stuff that I won't get it. The person who usually does the merch stuff is like dealing with some stuff and I'm not a,

I'm not a person that forces people to do things when they can't. So we were going to probably have some T-shirts out in time for Christmas, but it's not happening, so maybe next year. But in the meantime, if you go to YMSmerch.com, we are selling Sardonicast sticker pack. so far this is the only thing you can get for Sardottycast. So sorry, sorry we dropped the ball again, but it'll happen at some point. I'll get things figured out. It's a sticker pack.

It says certified Normie masterpiece and there's small stickers. You get a bunch of them. You can stick them on movies. You can stick them on your friends with their consent. Or without. You know, if you ever want to like, you know, say to the world, this is a certified Normie masterpiece. If you want to stick it on a poster.

If you want to use it in any way that's not illegal, then I support it. So YMSMurch.com and you can find the Normie Masterpiece sticker sheet just in time for Christmas, which is a great little stocking stiffer, okay? I think so. I'm going to get 40. I want to put them on everything. Hell yeah. I'm going to put it on my child.

Yes. Yes. Yes. It is, yeah, your child is a certified normie masterpiece. Yes, I love them. All right. Thanks, guys. Yeah, thank you for watching.

Yeah, thanks. And have, or listening, or both, and have a happy castration. Happy castration. Okay. Sure. Happy castration, everybody. Yeah, well, if you're already circumcised, you're halfway there. Thanks for listening, everybody.

Bye. Bye.