Sardonicast - Sardonicast 205: Zootopia 2, Train Dreams, Castration Movie Anthology I: Traps

Episode Date: December 22, 2025

Listen early and ad-free at https://sardonicast.com or https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Merch: https://ymsmerch.com/products/normie-masterpiece-sticker-sheet Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sardonicast.bsky.social Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@YMS Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Jake's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ManCarryingThing Jake's movie channel: https://www.youtube.com/@womancarryingman Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/yms.bsky.social Jake's twitter: https://x.com/ManCarrying Jake's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mancarryingthing.bsky.social Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Jake's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mancarryingthing Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:12 Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair 27:15 Zootopia 2 51:17 Train Dreams 1:10:02 Castration Movie Anthology I: Traps 1:55:51 Questions 2:23:44 Recommendation + outro

Three, two, one. Nick, where are you going? To be honest, I'm thinking Arby's. That was a quote from Zutopia, too. I'm Adam from your movie Sex. This is Sardonicast. I'm Alex from I. H.E.

And I thought maybe you were going to steal this one, but I'm going to go with, Hey, baby, can I vaping your pussy? Oh. Yeah, that's a good one. Was that Zootopia? Yeah, that was another Zootopia, too. Yeah, I think that was Zootopia.

too, right? Maybe it was the first one. Yeah, I can't remember. Well, no, because they were talking about a cat, and so it was okay. Like, that's how they got around the censorship. Hi, guys. I'm Adam from YMS, and I'm a train, I'm a train dreams. Ooh. Nice. Autistic people do like trains, even though we don't. It's only suspected. Right. Alex, you like trains.

You always say this. You always say this. I love Tom's care. Lay off it, man. You're always talking about how I love trains. Yeah, well, look, somewhat... We need to equalize the bullying that goes on in the podcast. We need to just spread it out to make it even.

You are the most bullied of all the hosts. I think so. Yeah. Well, because I'm the least normie. That's how it works. But I appreciate it. You're like the lightning rod, you know, you bring all of the... And there's like, you know, it's, I don't know why people are so critical of you in the comments,

it's, but it is kind of like a, I don't know, a tradition at this point maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just a part of it. I feel like it's mostly affectionate, you know? Oh, sure, yeah. At least from the longtime viewers. Yeah, affectionate. Well, I mean, like, it's circled back around to the point of it like being a meme, you know, People have like fucking copy pastas.

That's true. Who cares? There's a bunch of shit we want to talk about. Yeah, we don't want to start. I think we should start off with Kill Bill, the whole bloody affair. It's something that Alex was not able to see because Lionsgate hates the British. Understandably. Yeah, and I couldn't have fit it in any way.

It's been so we're kind of cramming in episodes in December this year. So we don't have the normal space. But I've seen obviously Kill Bill 1 and 2 before, so I'm kind of killed. curious. Exactly. That's like an animated thing thrown in there. There's something to do with Fortnite. What is going on?

Yeah. So I was kind of excited for this. So allegedly, the whole bloody affair was a cut of the first two Kill Bill films released as one film. And allegedly, the film was originally supposed to be released as one film and only got split into two because money, fucking Weinstein's, whatever, you know. And so the original Whole Bloody Affair supposedly premiered theatrically in Japan in like 2006 or something. I don't know if that's true. Like it might be true. But I have to wonder how different that original version would be from what we got today.

Because the extra animation sequence, like, was that not created new for this version? I'm very confused, honestly. Yeah. I mean, to me, that seemed like something that was like an obligatory, hey, like, we're going to be re-releasing it, but let's put actual, like, something new in there to try to entice people to come. Yeah, so was the extra animation even in the original Japanese release? Like, I don't even think so. I don't think so. Yeah.

Yeah. So, I guess spoilers for Kill Bill 1 and 2, that, you know, it's a 20-year-old. some 20-something year-old movie. 20-year-olds is crazy. Great movie. We all love it, I'm assuming. I don't know. Jake, you might hate it.

I remember liking part one more than part two. I was the same way. I always liked part one. I never loved it. It was never my favorite Tarantino or anything. But I thought part one was like, yeah, the better half. And my thoughts have changed a lot after seeing the whole one affair. Oh, really?

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it really, it was just a totally new experience for me. You know, just getting to see it in theaters, but also I think some changes that were made actually helped the movie in a lot of ways. Oh, like what? Well, we're talking about spoilers, right? Yes.

This is going to be a quick discussion. We have so many things to talk about it. Yeah, yeah. There are like three key, there are three key changes or maybe four. So the first one is that the opening quote is not the Klingon proverb anymore. It's a dedication to a filmmaker who I don't know of, but it's a dedication to filmmaker. then another key change is that it doesn't turn black and white during the big fight, you know, because there was no need because of the sensor.

So it's just all full color during that. And then there's an extended part of the animation sequence, which I found to be really kind of unnecessary. Like it was fine. But it really fucked with the pace because that's already kind of like a long digression. And then it keeps going and going. I'm like, okay, this is really like unnecessary. It does absolutely fuck with the pacing of that scene.

And, you know, perhaps I'm just going to throw out my bias. I've seen part one and two about a triillion times when I was younger. It's been a while since I've seen them. You know, I was kind of waiting for like a 4K Blu-ray or, you know, which I got. But then I heard the whole bloody affair was happening. I'm like, okay, I'll wait for that. And so, you know, this was my first time watching in a while. but I do essentially have the other two films memorized down to like a pacing and especially with them being very music oriented films, very editing and music heavy films.

You know, Quentin Tarantino, part of his charm, one of his biggest talents, I think, is his ability to discover and showcase and utilize existing music in narrative ways in his films. he clearly writes scenes to songs that he's found or heard. This has been done ever since his first film, Reservoir Dogs, you know, stuck in the middle with you. Like, he clearly wrote the scene to that song. And Kill Bill's like an entire two films where that's happening for like 80% of it. And so me having that pacing especially with the music made the changes of pacing in this film feel a lot more noticeable. And there's not that many.

But the extra animation scene in particular was like, oh, what? Like, kind of like, you know, your heart skips a beat, but like not in a good way. Like something's like, what the, what the heck? And then what I didn't like about that animation scene, even though, you know, it was long, unnecessary. Probably great for anime fans, you know, probably, you know, great just for people who love anime inherently. But they wound up just replaying the same song. like so the song would stop and then it would start again and play that exact

same section of the song and those sections of the song like very distinct pieces or cues within the piece I already have associated with parts of a scene that happened five minutes ago right where like you know

the boss is putting out his fucking cigar and the you know blood drips from the the bed onto her face as she's hiding underneath like very very distinct cues that hold so much emotional memory for me now just being repurposed. I have a suspicion that even if this was a scene that was originally intended to be in Kill Bill and was cut, I have a suspicion that they wouldn't have just played the same song again.

Right. And that in this version, they're just essentially not wanting to license a new piece of music. which is just kind of irritating and frustrating. And it's not the only example of what I feel makes this re-release kind of just fucking sloppy and thrown together in a way where it doesn't really seem like this purposeful. This is exactly how it would have been Quentin Tarantino's name plastered all over everything, like as if it's like an artist's full vision. No, it really does feel like they just kind of threw together.

two existing movies with minor changes. And I don't know about your screening, Jake, but like there were people on Reddit complaining even about, even about like the, what is it, 30 or 70 millimeter? Like some of the film print screenings where they were saying like, yeah, the image quality is like not that good. Like, I don't know what the hell this is.

In my screening, it was just like a regular digital one. But I also noticed like, this is like, this is like worse quality than the 4K Blu-ray. Like what is going on with this transfer? Like, why does it look like not a clear image quality for something I'm seeing in a theater? How did your experience go? You know, I saw it digital as well, and it was like a really nice big screen. And it was like one of those situations where it's cropped.

So it's like it could have filled up more of the screen. But for some reason, it was kind of like cropped to the wide screen. I don't know what that was about. And yeah, the quality wasn't like spectacular. I actually thought like it's got to be, I feel like it'd look better on, like a 4 kit like on my TV or something a little bit um but it was fine you know it was it wasn't like distracting me at least um but uh it's interesting because you have this experience of being like devoted to the original two films and like knowing it beat by beat and i haven't i've seen those

it's been years so it's like really kind of rediscovering the films themselves um so it it's not like i'm going oh well this changed in this part and like it was it was way more like just getting a experience and having the opportunity to sit down and like, you know, just bathe in all of the glory of what this is. And, you know, honestly, for like the first half of the movie, I was going, like, is this kind of like way worse than I remember? Because I was just like, all of the quirks and mannerisms of Tarantino are so fully on display. It's almost like a parody of himself at this point. It's a satire film essentially. Yeah. Yeah. It's so like the foot stuff and all of the like needle drops. It's so the needle drops too. It kind of fucks with the pace a lot of times where it's

just like, okay, I get like this track. You have to, it has to play out so it gets to this moment here, but it's like you're, it's kind of drawn out. So there are moments like that where I'm like oh shit. And you could tell there were people in my theater who've never seen the movies before who are kind of like getting a little restless during certain digressions and scenes that like for example, the anime sequence, like the new stuff, it does feel like a real. retread of like the emotional beat that came right before, especially because of the music. Like you said, it's the same. The exact same music.

It feels like we're not getting any new information really. We're just kind of like retreading an emotional beat that we just had. So while I guess if you like love these movies, it can be kind of cool to see more. I also thought the animation style was different enough that it was a bit jarring. Yeah. You know what I mean? No, no, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah, like the older style was a lot looser and more expressive.

So yeah, I wonder if it was the same studio. But there is one detail that I do want to mention that I think changes a lot in terms of like the emotional climax of the movie and why I think this version works so well, at least for me, is because like that emotional heaviness that you get at the end of the film where it's like anti-climactic, where it's just the conversation between the bride and bill. But at the end of the first half before the intermission kicks in, we don't get the little tease that Bill says that her daughter is alive. Yeah.

Which was like the cliffhanger at the end of the first one. That's not there anymore. So you don't, and since it's been so long since I've seen it, it was like brand new. You don't get that moment to hit until she literally sees her daughter at the end of the whole film. Yeah. And that, to me, that just like hit like a sledgehammer. Like I was getting, and Uma Thurman is so good in this movie. She's just.

She's great. Like as much as there's so much artificiality and stuff that like reminds you this is a movie, this is a movie. And that's like fun and exciting why we love these movies. It's like she without her there, that like emotional core, it's so crucial. Like that's what keeps it all together. I know what you mean. I have like the opposite experience for the cliffhanger and how things are revealed because I think on paper that's the paper. sounds like a great idea to remove the cliffhanger because it's not necessary if it's not like two

films. But I have a couple problems. Problem A, I do feel like the emotional tone and weight of the cliffhanger at the end of the first movie was pretty fucking cool, right? Especially, like, I remember exactly what fucking music cue comes in with it too. Like, there is something emotionally resonant and powerful about that cliffhanger and things. ending. It's really memorable. Yes, yes, and things ending on that way. And then, you know, another issue that comes from this is when the reveal does happen, and I'm trying to put myself in the mind of people that like don't expect it to be happening and now thinking like, okay, yeah, when do we find out? It's literally when she just shows up with Bill. The cue that happens

when she's like, bang, bang, mommy, like, there's such a cheesy music cue. And the crank zoom on her face, where it's like, I feel like that's a little less emotionally powerful for that moment. And maybe just like, I don't know how strange and maximalist and editing heavy, the film has been up until that point would allow the average viewer to not feel like that's a weird kind of cheeseball way of doing the reveal. Perhaps that's the experience. I wouldn't know because I can't put my, you know, I'm not that person. I already knew the twist

But yeah, that's how I felt about it And then also It doesn't really feel like one movie anyway when you have An intermission in the middle of both movies Like I'm pro intermission Right I'm pro intermission when there's like A natural break

And you're not You know, fucking with the pacing But if the entire selling point is This is one movie now I mean, there was a longer intermission than the amount of time it would take for me to take out one Blu-ray and put in another, right? So I'm kind of getting like an even more detached experience

than if I were watching it at home. Maybe not from like, oh, watching it theatrically and then waiting for the second one to come out. But it doesn't really feel like a cohesive, continuous story in this way with the intermission. Yeah. Also, there were, was no timer on the intermission. So shout out to the Brutalist for having a timer.

Yeah, that was good. Shout out to the Brutalist for having like an actual image to associate with the intermission and music to associate with the intermission. There was no music. It was like the most basic ass fucking like default. Wasn't there a train? There was like the sound of a train, I think. I don't know. I fucking went to the bathroom. Or maybe that was an actual train. I think it was an actual train because like when, yeah, the intermission was like, like, the intermission was like, yeah, why would there be a train? The actual intermission was like the most default, basic ass, like, editing software font.

Just the word intermission, no timer, no music composed for this. No music leading into the second film. So that when the intermission starts back again, it's just this weird jarring, like, okay, we're going from silent title to silent title of, like, the next chapter or whatever. Yeah, and it's just like such a jarring, weird, like, I don't believe that this is like the experience of watching them both together.

That just feels like a sloppy thrown together kind of thing. Okay. I mean, in a way, I agree with you because I do think you're not really gaining that much. Or if anything, maybe you're losing a little bit by seeing it this way from how it was originally shown. Like, you can just watch both movies back to back, which is what most people probably do. I think the best aspect of this reissue is simply the fact that people can go in theaters and watch Kill Bill Volume 1 and 2, 1 and 2 right there. back to back. Yeah, you also miss the beginning of volume two with, you know, when she's driving and says,

I'm going to kill Bill, you know, and that's like an iconic moment. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you lose a little bit, but you gain something out of it too. And I think just seeing it combined in this long format, just, I don't know, it reminded me in ways of like other directors, really long, shaggy personal product, like Magnolia or something or Babylon or, you know, like really. egregiously long, very self-indulgent masterpieces that I love to think about. And that's a word that kept running through my head was self-indulgent, but also like enjoying

that and appreciating that and seeing like, to me, this seems like his most personal movie. Like it's his, and this is just my reading of it. It's like his interpretation of his parents' divorce, you know, and his parents like not being together in like this kind of like family strife as seems. through all of his childhood loves, you know, all of his favorite things, just so shamelessly, it's like a 12-year-old made

a movie about his kids, his parents getting divorced. And it's like, seen through that lens, it's like so touching. It's almost like an ode to his mom, perhaps, or, you know, like, there's a lot there that is interesting to look at, that, I don't know, I just had a new appreciation for it before. I just kind of dismissed it a little bit. That's interesting. No, yeah, I just, it doesn't feel like a single

film. Like, I couldn't compare it to, like, Magnolia, because, like, that feels like a singular piece. And, you know, even, even being in one theater for one showing, you know, the intermission doesn't help. But also, like, tonally, they feel like two distinct films. Like, I've always considered them to be one film as, like, an experience. As in, I'm, like, rating the same story. Like, they're both tend to me because I just love the combination of both of them. But, It doesn't really feel like one film. It definitely feels like two different films that are a part of the same story. What did you think of the Paul Dano cameo?

The end of the film? That was a bit unnecessary. Yeah. Yeah, I guess just a couple more things to note about the changes. The Crazy 88 fight scene being in color, it was kind of funny just because it doesn't feel different at all. just to think about how stupid the fucking MPA A are. Like, oh, yeah, that changed so much. All the violence we're like seeing.

It's like, oh, it's worse if the blood is red, which like there's so many movies that have like had to skirt around that. Like Evil Dead having like characters spurt out like black or white blood or whatever. Like that was all just to not get an NC 17 or like an X rating. And it's so silly. And there is something charming about like how they manage. to get around it in the original Kill Bill, the timing of the editing, you know, with going to black and white on the eyepluck and then coming back in in the blue colored silhouette scene,

I thought that that was a really creative choice. And so it's like, yeah, I would not like a world where the MPAA is forcing those changes to happen, but out of that change needing to happen, there was a really cool creative choice that is in the first film that we only see as part one. I loved that Sophie got her second arm chopped off. That was awesome. That was the thing I liked the most about the changes.

Oh, that was a change? No, yeah. In the original catch, she only cuts off one of her arms and as soon as she says, give me your other arm, then it cuts back to the close shot of her and Bill's hand on her face and they continue having conversation.

So in the original, the implication is that she only cut off one arm. You never see her full body in either film when she's talking to Bill after the fact. But in this one, you literally just see her fucking chop her other arm off, which is just great. I love that. That's actually really funny. Oh, it's great. That is great. Yeah.

And then, yeah, what else has changed? Like nothing. And then a shitty fucking Fortnite scene at the very end past the credits. Yeah, what is that about? What does that mean? I guess you can watch it on YouTube. Wait, I didn't even watch that part. Oh, you didn't?

Yeah, I didn't even watch that. No, I did. No, I left it during the credits. It was like midnight. I was exhausting. Oh. So, yeah, basically after the really lengthy credits end, there's one, like, outtake scene,

like a really short outtake. I forget even what the outtake was. And then after that, like a shitty 2D animation of like characters going, let's go to the lobby, which is the intro for the Fortnite animation thing. But just so poorly thought out in terms of where they placed it. So when you're placing that at the end, as soon as you have the animation of characters going, let's all go to the lobby, everybody thinks it's time to leave. And so people will just like fucking, and people have posted on Reddit about this too.

Like, oh yeah, like people just left during that part because they thought, it was a thing from the theater saying let's go to the lobby like it's literally saying go to the lobby yeah but that's just the intro to the fortnight thing which makes it also just again abundantly clear that this is just thrown together and not really planned out they just tacked it on to the end should have been a pre-show in my opinion it should have been before the film started but yeah it's you can watch it on youtube it's fucking horrendous there is no personality of quentin tarentino in it whatsoever at any moment It is all just Fortnite.

There's random, like, Fortnite-looking characters. You know, Yuki drinks like a fucking blue drink to gain health. There's no blood. Literally just, like, a speck of blue on someone's chest, and it's not even, like, liquid. It's just, like, a stain on their shirt. Did Tarantino direct to it? That's what they say, and I don't believe them. Yeah, maybe he stood in the room.

I think that he was paid to have his name on it. Yeah. They censor the word pussy and pussywagon, so it's just, like, a little... deckle of a cat. Instead, I'm like, just don't even drive the fucking truck. Like, what is it? Like, oh yeah, this is just,

this is for children, and we're throwing it in, what are we talking about here? And they have the gall, they have the gall to call it the lost chapter by Quentin Tarantino. All of those words on the screen. Yeah.

Like, Quentin Tarantino's name just like, associated with this, as if this is how he envisioned it to include mostly just a video game that wasn't invented when he made Kill Bill. It was disgusting. That was just, that was horrendous,

horrendous, awful, cringe. Very difficult to get through, two out of ten. I'm glad I didn't stay for that. Oh, yeah, yeah. And yeah, the entire experience of the whole bloody affair, I think I would give an eight out of ten.

Just like, yeah, I feel like my preferred version is the two films separately. And even though on paper, I like the idea of experiencing this is one whole thing, it just doesn't feel like this is what the ideal version of that one experience would be. I don't believe that this is what would have been released at the time. I don't believe he would have used the same song again, right? So to me, the whole bloody affair, as it was described, if let's say it was something released in Japan in 2006 or whatever, to me, that film is still lost and it wasn't released.

So I'd be curious to seeing that actual film at some point in the future. Yeah. I mean, yeah, eight out of ten. You're not really making me feel like I'm missing out by not seeing this. I feel like I've still got the prime experience of watching the movies. No, yeah, yeah, to me, I guess. All right, well, yeah, I mean, I'm happy I had the experience at least. But, yeah, I feel like your complaints are pretty valid, honestly. Thank you.

But, yeah, I mean, I'd be willing to watch this version again for sure. I wouldn't mind. I don't think it's really that huge of a difference between, you know, just minor, minor stuff. Yeah, I do love the second armchap. That is funny. Yeah, yeah, that is good. I'll have to think about whether or not I would watch at the home video release because it's like, okay, will they take out the intermission? Then how will that flow?

Like, that's a good question. You know, it's funny, it's been so long since I've seen the second volume that I forgot that she plucks out her eye L driver's eye That's so funny I like gasped I was so good Yeah there's so much great stuff in those movies

But yeah I give the originals like a 10 And who know like yeah I might watch them in that form again At some point and on my 4K Blu-rays and stuff and we'll see if that holds up But yeah like I mean I have a very Very fun memory of those films it's a very personal

nostalgic experience for me And Vivica A Fox is in it. Quartet. True. Yes. The most important part. All right. How you doing, Alex?

I'm good. I like Kill Bill. It was never my favorite Tarantino go-toes though. But every time I've seen it, I've enjoyed them both a lot, but particularly that first part. Cool. Yeah. I feel like I'm okay with just watching on my own time and not.

Sure. Are these two together about the same length as one cast. illustration maybe for part one. Yeah, pretty much, pretty close. Yeah. Like four and a half hours, yeah. So, yeah. We tried to make that discussion quick.

It still wound up being like 30 minutes. I know. I was talking as fast as I could. All right. Well, what are we doing next? Tutopia. Okay. All right.

Tope means Utreropolis, right? Two Tropolis. Two Tropolis, too, Tokyo Driftopolis 2, Tokyo Dario. Dogo, wago, Pucho. I have very few thoughts. about this movie. I thought it was fine. I thought it was the hottest character. It was enjoyable. And it just kind of, what?

What's your persona? Didn't we talk about this? I don't remember. I feel like we did have a question about that, but I can't remember what the answer was. You might have vetoed it. Armadillo. Let's go at that. Nice. Who was the hottest character? That's a great question. I'm going to have to think about that

All right, we'll get back to you Sure Andy Sandberg Which one was that again? The Lynx He played the Lynx Oh yeah Oh yeah

Furries are fucking obsessing over Paubert links Linksly Interesting That's their new Thirst trap This movie's making like So much money in China

A bagillion Yeah Just everywhere right Yeah But China especially Like it's already number four out of ten and it's probably going to take over

Minecraft in the next few weeks still only just come out it's probably going to have legs everyone's going to see it with the holidays and everything and then Avatar will come out and Disney's just happy you know what I found very very interesting so

Zootopia 1 comes out this might this might not be like common knowledge among non-furries but the reason why it was so popular among furies. It's not just because, oh, there's anthropomorphic animal characters in it. It's because it was one of the first movies ever, especially like popular brand

films that felt like it was pandering to furries in ways where it was like pretty clear. There were, you know, at this point, because furies have been around for a long time, what sort of jobs do you think furries get? It's all fucking tech, IT, creative animation, right? And so like literally if you're working in an animation studio today, whether it be 2D or 3D or anything, your co-workers are fucking furies, right? And it's not an insignificant amount that are furries. And so now where it's like, okay, like the people creating these things are furies. It was clear that in this film, whether or not it was like actual furies on the writing team, like furies were definitely consulted and considered and like, handed to for Zootopia.

And there's like, there's like a huge list of, of examples. And then, you know, on their fucking Disney social media things and people being like, oh, where are your first suit to the screening and stuff? Like, like, it was like very clearly like a endorse as much as you can without, you know, making it like a weird news thing, I guess. Do you have verifiable sources? Yeah. Where it's like the community knows.

Oh, okay. The community knows sort of thing. Okay. And so that was, that was a, that's one of the reasons why like furries absolutely loves Zootopia. And I'm like, yeah, lukewarm on it. I just found the first film to be like really like paint by numbers in terms of its story, kind of like predictable, like the whole. They're going to go. What did they say?

They're going to go rabid or something like that. That whole... It was like herbivores and carnivals was the main conflict of it, right? Yeah, it was just kind of like boring for the most part. Was there not a lot of criticism about it because it was like a racism allegory that was like... Yeah. A very flawed and like not... It's just...

Yeah, that's the thing you do with an anthropomorphic animal society plot. Right. Anyway, one of the things that was... pretty apparent from this, the jump from the first film to the second film. Was that the first film, there were so many species that were just like not included whatsoever, right?

Yeah. And, you know, furries like to see whatever species they are represented. And so, the marketing for this film, you look at some of the earlier trailers, a lot of them were literally just like, how many head shots of different characters

can we fit in within like 10 seconds? and they were literally doing like one per frame sort of thing where you had to like pause and slow down. Because part of their marketing, they understand that like, okay, who are the people that are going to be talking about our film on social media for free? It's the fucking furries, right?

And so they throw in as many like new animal characters as possible just because they know there will be furries that like will pause on one and be like, oh shit, I love this guy. It's so cute. This one looks weird or whatever. right viable marketing strategy the reason why this one was such a huge chit hit a huge hit particularly in China nobody's talked about this and this is just my little

fucking conspiracy theory which I believe is 100% true is that the new species that they focused on in terms of including as main characters right we have reptiles the most Prominent reptile in the entire film is a snake played by Kiwi Kuan right right yeah new other prominent character not featured or species not even featured in the first film a horse we got mayor horse fucking forget his fucking Patrick Patrick Warburton yeah um those are the two most prominent new main character like species type that were not featured in the first film.

Like, sure, like the links, sure, we didn't see a link's. But it's like, we saw felines, right? The Chinese Zodiac is currently on the year of the snake. And in February 2026, it is going into the year of the horse. And so this film has been in production for such a long time that they probably included both of these characters knowing that the release date would be somewhere around this time and knowing that like, okay, if it gets delayed or whatever,

we're still on the year of the horse. Right? I think that that would be crazy to say that that's a coincidence when so much emphasis is put on the Chinese market, especially with family films at this point. Hmm. Like that's, that has to be true. That has to be true.

I would have to ask a Chinese person, you know. Sure. Whether or not Disney did it? Would this influence whether you see it? If there's a horse or it's snake in it, is that going to influence you? The answer is yes. That is true, though, bringing up the gap between the first movie. It was what, like 2016 or something?

It's like nearly 10 years between these sequels for some reason. It's not like the first one was a flop or anything. It's surprising considering the sequel machine that it's taken this long. Seeing as it has, I'm sure they did. They both broke records. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But it's only seemed to gain more kind of cultural capital. at all in that space. It hasn't really affected its popularity at all. And yeah, it's nice, though, talking about, like, the character designs in a Disney movie, it's like, oh, yeah, that's kind of like what you used to be known for and good at was, like, animation and design and characters

and, likeable, broad family films. Instead of, like, you know, live action, Lilo and Stitch and cynical snow white stuff. And it's like, oh, yeah, this is what these films should be. This is what, like, a family Disney film should be. You know, it's pretty inoffensive, harmless. It's fun. It's got these, like, fun set pieces, a high, like, cadence of, like, action throughout

the whole thing. It doesn't take itself too seriously. It's pretty self-aware. Yes, it is. I liked it. I thought it was, like, breezy and fun. And I did prefer it a lot, actually, over the first movie, which I similarly just, I saw the once, haven't thought about it since.

It wasn't very memorable for me. And partially it was because of the, like, I don't know, if animals are the characters, I want to see, like, a variety of different types of animals. for like storytelling purposes too, right? No horses. Having reptiles in there. Well, yeah, I want to see the whole gambit. No hoofers.

Especially because in the realm of animation, when you're bringing in reptiles that have like different skeletons and ways of moving, you can do some really fun stuff. Yeah. With animation. So when they go to like the saloon

and everything and the variety of kind of creepy, weird animation stuff they can do with there and the gags they can get from it, I thought the gags even with like, this is funny. This is almost like the old school Pixar way and doing things where they set up a world,

and all the sight gags and the concept is like baked into the humor that didn't feel insincere. And yeah, there's a charm to it. And I like these two main characters too. It's like a, I don't know. I'm always talking about these like detectives, investigation like tropes. I do like that. It's like a story framing, even though it is kind of simple and all it needs to be like a Disney family movie. I don't know.

I like this. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it has, it was like the perfect marriage of a kind of irreverent like Shrek style, like commenting on like actual pop culture things like there's the godfather references and all that sort of thing but also like having this self-contained Pixar universe that feels like authentic and there's a bit of heart in there um yeah it's just kind of like designed i don't know like perfectly designed in a lab to just be to just go down easy and just be kind of an offensive fun family movie um and yeah like

you were saying Alex like there's lots of really good action set pieces like houses on cliffs crashing, you know, tubes, you know, drows, like lots of interesting. Drowning. You know, the fun kind of stuff. Okay, but for real, there is a sequence in this movie that kind of pissed me off at Judy Hopps. She's toxic. She's fucked up.

Like, I was getting pissed at her. I'm like, okay, yeah, the Fox, his issue is that he's a slacker. Nick Wild. Your issue is that you're a psychopath who wants to kill. yourself in the name of duty. And you want to kill him. And it's like, you're like jumping into a pipe that's, they're like, you're going to drown.

And she's like, well, we gotta do it. I'm invincible. I'm invincible. And then she's mad at him. I was pissed. They were very tough. No apology. No apology. Judy's toxic as fuck. Yeah. That's, I want to see that developed in the third movie. I'd like, you know, but I guess

they're in therapy right now. They're in their, uh, work. place mandated therapy. Yeah. Well, that goes back to the fan service, right? Because that's like one of the memes with the first movies, you know, the comic and everything. Abortion.

Yeah. Just the fan service, like relationships. Which I didn't even know about. They didn't even know about until people were commenting on my video of my review. They were like, wow, the abortion plot was really like hard. I was like, whoa, what? Did I watch the wrong movie? Yeah.

With the like therapy scene with them, especially being framed in that first trailer is like, Whoa, they like together now? And then they're all like them showing up with a pram with a baby in it. It's like, you know exactly what you're doing Disney. No, yeah, yeah, exactly. They know they're they're given little treats for their audience as much as they can. I thought, yeah, I thought that the set pieces and like environments and just variety of what was shown visually was just so much better realized in this film. because the first film just kind of did feel like

you know, stereotypical, boring, procedural mystery where they're like, who did the thing? And then there's a twist. And like, they're going through a lot of like similar familiar beats, but also like locations. Like, oh, yeah, okay, we got the mob bus thing and the, blah, blah, and it's, I don't know. This film felt a lot more varied and it felt more like an action adventure

where they're actually. going somewhere. They're actually discovering new places and new things and the pacing just kept things going in a very fun, energetic way that just, yeah, way better than the first, in my opinion. Just my experience was much more positive. I like the first one a little more, I think, just because like the character arcs are kind of similar in the second one. I mean, it's different enough, but, you know, it's still like you're, you have characters go on an emotional arc and then you kind of got to figure out a way to fuck it up in the sequel to get them to evolve in a new way. I don't know. I'd say they're both like just as enjoyable to me, but it's

been a while since I've seen the first one. But the zebras, the zebras was good. Yeah, I like that. So what animal are they going to pick next to like bring into the next for Zootopia 3? Birds, avians. That was the way it was teaser at the end. Okay. That's why the feather fell. Yeah. Oh, right. I think it was like a post credits or something, did you say? Okay, no, I never really stayed for these own credits things. I just clear off. Definitely birds.

Birds. Definitely birds. 1,000%. Hmm. They should do like insects. I could get dark. Because, like, these guys are eating something. Like fish and insects, like, revolting.

Rising up. I wonder if they'll address that. What actor is going to voice the bird? The main bird? Michael Keaton Nice That's not a bad choice Alex do you have a good

Do you have a Patrick Warburton voice That you know No that's one I can't do Hey Peter There you go I just associate it with that fucking YouTube channel The yo mama Even though it's not Patrick Warbert's

Oh yeah they sound the same Impression of it Hey Peter That's just scary Don't do that Oh my God Was it uncanny? No, it sounds like you're trying to, like, chase someone down a dark alley.

No, you know what? So they released the, obviously, like, the character headshot images before we saw any of their screen presence or voice acting or anything. And people were obviously like, oh, look, there's a horse. And I was kind of like, whatever. because he looked like a fucking Fabio you know piece of shit

kind of like dude bro like oh I'm obsessed with my looks I'm majestic or whatever that's the impression I got from just that still frame the way that his character is in the film like he won me over for sure like I love that there was like more of a silliness to it

I love that he was like a goofy character and Patrick Warburton's performance really worked well for the character I thought he was great. Also, I love the hoof hands. I like that they didn't commit to having opposable fingers. Although you would almost expect them to have some sort of scene where they're having difficulty doing something with your hands.

Trying to pick something up. Yeah. Like trying to like, I don't know, type. Oh, you know, something that annoyed me. The sloth came back, of course. You know, he returned for a little cameo. How is he driving that car so fast? Well, you see, they cut.

Before any of the fast motions happen. No, they cheated. It makes no sense. It makes no sense. How is he turning the wheel so fast? How is he pushing the pedal? It's a major flaw in this film. I preferred that joke than the soft joke in the original.

That was like the whole marketing thing was the sloth. Yeah, that was, yeah. I'm actually very happy and relieved that they didn't just indulge in the exact same fucking joke again. True. He was barely, yeah. Yeah. I like, I like that it was used differently and it wasn't just the same like, oh, we're at the DMV, oh, things are slow, like, because yeah, rewatching even the first film, it's just kind of like, yeah, who cares? Like, it is a slow scene. I get it. I get it. But like, I'm so, I understand that they would have been very tempted to do that. So I think, I think the balance worked well. The same with the goats,

you know, doing Thor Love and Thunder recently in the obvious, oh, the internet, screaming, goat bullshit. They resist the urge to do that as well with the goat characters. I thought that was like, wow. Yeah. There's some restraint guys. They avoided a lot of like very bad directions. Like there were so many missteps they could have made in the sequel.

And then they avoided them was very, you know, that's a good sign. It was a really good, well-balanced movie when it came to like the humor. They didn't stay on any particular thing. for too long. There were jokes that were legitimately funny to me. The Shining reference was fucking pretty good. Yeah, that was a good one. There's some good sight gags.

Yeah, yeah, there's, there's, um, there's like a lot going on. Like, there's legitimately funny gags, and there's a lot of them. I like when, uh, the mayor just does the press conference and he's like, Chief Bogo is dead. Like, even though it's like, I didn't believe that that was,

happening you know you I could see that the joke was I like that they just wound up doing that well they're just being if you're paying attention it just rewards you like when the in that chase scene where they go through burning animals that of burning man and just yeah burning animal yeah it's just silly man yeah it's just silly man I do have an animal critique though for in those kind of lines I think it's nuts it's insane right the the for the story to be based around snakes and there being so many mammal characters that there's not a single mongoose character what are they doing their whole thing is like hunting snakes come on

guys not single mongoose hmm got to get on that wait was the um the guy voiced by um fucking is it Alan Tudik there is a mongoose character uh but he was all right is he not yeah he's kind of i don't know it could be like a ferret it could yeah it might be though might be in which case they should have made him a bigger part you know yeah i know you mean yeah he had like a little son thing. Oh, there isn't a central mongoose in Zutavia. What the hell was he might have been a ferret. Yeah, because he was in the first movie, right?

And in the Disney Plus spin-off. Oh, that classic. Which was not great. The music too, actually, Chichino. In one of the action scenes, I was like, why is this reminding me of the Incredibles? And then, yeah, in the credits. Okay, cool. Yep. Oh, he's a weasel. Oh, weasel. Yeah, that makes sense. So no mongoose.

Weasels would eat a snake, right? I don't know, but I just know a mongoose is like specifically evolved to have like, this is so dorky. They're like immune to snake venom. Nice. They've like evolved to hunt snakes. So I just thought, come on man. You got like the pig cops.

Maybe one of those two pig cops should have been, should have been a mongoose. You hear what I'm saying? Yeah. I feel like Alan Tudik, if he was in the movie at all, you should have played a shark. Or a snake. Or is that just fan fiction? I made a joke that you will not understand, but that's fine. Yeah, I don't.

It's in the name, it's in the name. Didn't catch that one. Yeah. No, yeah, it worked really well. I don't think that the twist villain aspect was necessary. They didn't need to do it, but I'm glad that they did it in kind of like a self-aware enough way. Yeah. You surprised me.

I like it more than the twist in the first movie, yeah. Yeah, I'm kind of disappointed that they did it twice. in a row because now it feels like they have to commit to doing that again on the third one, or at least acknowledge it. Like, if it doesn't happen, like, do a fake out where you think it's happening and then it didn't happen. Like, now they're committing. Yeah, give them another nine years and maybe we'll see Zootropolis 3.

Legit, why is everything taking so long to get produced? I mean, I feel like what with TV series, each season takes like five years and even movie sequels. Like, it just takes so long to get things off the ground, it seems like. I don't know. Is it just the industry slowing down? It's just like, I don't know. Everything's in flux, yeah.

I don't know. Everything just seems like it's changing like every day as far as like a business and you can't really bank on the future. I mean, they did. They timed it with the Zodiac calendar. They definitely did that. But I don't know, yeah, I think it offsets

the like snow weight timing. Yeah. They should have hit. had more horse puns. I don't think they had a horse pun. Here's some easy ones. They could have said, neighborhood at some point.

Okay, you're setting up. You have a list. Oh, yeah, they did, you know, they did say, he does say nay as like, nay as a no, but he says nay, like the nay sound. Okay.

Which was fun. Here's an easy one that they could have done. So he's the mayor. That word sounds a lot like mayor, right that could have been yeah it could have

incorporated that whenever I hear the word mayor I think mayor okay I think you're allowed to have 60 more seconds

on this topic okay well seven out of ten I think it was pretty good yeah nice

nice sequel yeah I'd give it a 7 out of 10 as well yeah it was nice I'm slightly below that like a strong

three star out five it's yeah it's good I didn't love how it kind of wrapped up the main two characters like tension the way that's

relieved with this kind of therapy dump conclusion. Oh yeah. It was kind of funny. It was kind of funny but I mean for it to be elevated more than my rating I'd need a bit more of like an emotional core to it outside of the breezy kind of fun of just the colors and motion

of it and I love that snake character I think that's like the heart of it for me. It was great. Made me fool for it. Yeah. Alex, who was the newscaster character in your localized version because they're different in regions. Jake and I have the same one for North America. I believe it was a moose. You just had a moose too. You got Peter Moosebridge? I think it might be. I believe so. What the fuck? Yeah, I think it was a moose. Who's it supposed to be? Was that the same? I thought it was localized. It would be different. I heard that in the first movie it was

localized differently. Was that the same character in the first movie for you too? Peter Moosebridge. I was nearly 10 years ago. I do not remember that character. I swear there was like a flashback at like the beginning of the movie though. Oh man, I don't know. Anyway, Peter Moosebridge is voiced by a Canadian famous news anchor Peter Mansbridge, who I think is retired at this point, but he did stuff for like CBC. And that would be, yeah, the Canadian and American version. And apparently they have different news anchors depending on region.

There's like an Aussie one. Oh, like a koala or, that's funny. Yeah, yeah. Like different little cameos or whatever. Well, you see the UK has no animals like independent to itself because we've like kind of murdered all the interesting ones. There's nothing left. All right. Twain, uh, train dreams.

What were you going with, uh, on that first reading? Nothing. Okay. I misspoke. Mm-hmm. So you guys like this movie, I hear. I actually do, yeah. Okay.

I kind of really loved it. Yeah. Cool. I was, I was big into this. Where did this come from? I feel like it just came out of nowhere. I haven't seen anything from this director before. It's just been dropped on Netflix.

Yeah. It's really connecting with people. Well, it's based off of a novella. Novela. Yeah. By a guy who I don't know much about, but Connor Oberst considered him to be like one of his favorite writers. And I like Connor Oberst. Dennis Johnson.

Sorry, who is he, Jake? You know more. Yeah, I haven't read any of his stuff. Dennis Johnson, though. That's his name. Yeah. Yeah. It's a nice little meditative,

vibes, scenery sounds type film. Very low stakes in terms of like what it's offering narratively but you know

I feel like there's space for those types of movies and it's nice, yeah, it's nice to see one. I thought it was good at what it set out to do.

Really, expand on the low stakes thing because I found it to be kind of the inverse as far as like the tapestry of someone's entire life condensed into a minute's 40 during a time period where so much is changing it felt kind of like oh they've

managed to actually encapsulate this very kind of high stakes like family situation and survival and without you know mustache dwelling villains and kind of stereotypes of some of the stories from this time it felt like very organic and reeled back and kind of realistic and meditative as yeah that's what i mean in terms of it being like reeled back right right right Yeah, yeah. No, that's exactly what I loved about it. Can obviously attribute a lot to, like, Malik, and that kind of quiet to naturalistic style. But I think it carved out his own voice. I was very attached to this main character and the dreamy structure of it, yeah, like,

showing this entire time period without it feeling clunky and it flowed really well. I thought the editing was good with the way it was using this, what is normally a bit of a nitpick for me when there's ongoing references using shots from earlier in the movie to kind of like keep you up or catch you up or remind you of something that happened I find that to be kind of annoying trope but I felt like the way that was built into the structure of this film with these dreams he's having being baked into the kind of movement and cadence of like the way the character was aging and changing and it felt like time was slipping through his fingers so it gave it like a really unique feel

to me and felt kind of like unpredictable and it just felt like life and that experience of the the more of it you feel the more it the quicker it goes and these people just kind of fade in and out and they leave these impacts and shards on you and it's all over the place and unpredictable emotionally um i found it very satisfying in the the depths it would go and the highs it would go too especially with that my ending i loved that ending i found it quite poignant and meaningful Mm-hmm. Why'd you hate it, Jake? Yeah.

So, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I found there was a lot that I had liked about it. I did like some of this cinematography, and I thought that Joel Edgerton was good in this. But, yeah, I just felt that it was kind of like a treakly, sentimental kind of homage to Malik, who I love Malik, you know, but. This just felt like there was nothing there to like chew on. It felt very kind of, it just didn't connect with me emotionally at all. I was bored. I really just didn't connect with this character or this environment.

It felt like a kind of widewashing of this time in history to kind of be more palatable to like our modern sensibilities and give us an idea of like this romantic. view of these old and older times, even though it does show, like, obviously, some of the harder truths of that. Like, for instance, and I haven't read the novel, but from what I understand, I did read the beginning of it. Oh, actually, I'll save this for spoilers. We can talk about this a bit. But, yeah, just overall, I found it just unmoving.

And I did, yeah, it just didn't hit with me. And I don't know necessarily what it is. I mean, I think there's a kind of like earnest. like longing towards like a spiritual catharsis, especially in like the final moments of this and like seeking and dealing with grief and stuff. And I just found it to be not not very compelling in that aspect. You know, like it did remind me of some of Malick isms and like every scene is with a beautiful sunset in the background. And it just felt like very kind of phony. I don't know. know. I just didn't buy into it. And the ending sequence with like the little montage of the,

you know, the beauty and the wonder. And I, uh, maybe I'm, I don't know, maybe I'm getting more cold-hearted as I get older. But I don't know. I just didn't, I just didn't buy into it. And yeah. That's interesting you describe it as sort of like a whitewashing of the period where for me, what kind of got me into it was how it felt like a kind of a genuine convincing period piece and that it was selling the kind of lonely, isolated nature of it. And that's what kind of made it perilous and interesting to watch for me, was it felt like this is cold, this is a brutal, uncaring world that's being presented and doesn't really feel like it's romanticizing it, particularly to me.

It was almost the complete inverse, actually. Oh, wow. Yeah, and going back to where I think what the film is overall saying about, like, kind of rapid expansion and this idea of industrialization and what was going. on with steel and trains and how quickly things have moved, especially in the last couple hundred years. I thought that kind of sense of perspective that it ends on, that bullet point it ends on. It was like very, very effective and gave it a nice strong spine for the beauty of the cinematography to kind of be anchored around.

Yeah, I'm somewhere in between. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. I really actually went in wanting to like it. I heard very good things and I heard it compared to Malik in some ways. And I even like, I love song to song. Like, that's a Malick movie I really enjoy. And Night of Cups and like later period like kind of wandering, rambling kind of thing. But experimental.

Yeah, yeah. And like this had some beautiful moments, but it never felt like specific enough in a way where I'm like, this is a person who I, who feels like a real person rather than I guess a, an avatar for the audience to. admire a period of history and kind of like feel the romanticism of a period that is gone and won't come back and kind of a longing for that. And I guess I prefer to look at that period in history with, I don't know, like a sense of kind of like things were very like brutal and like I don't know. I don't know. It's hard for me to articulate it, I guess. And I have more thoughts I need to process, but yeah, yeah, just didn't

connect with me. I think it can be both. To me, to me, it is it's a film that doesn't like completely ignore the hardships, but still manages to find beauty and tranquility and peace within it. So,

that's kind of why I feel like I'm halfway. I do feel like it acknowledges both, but like for the sake of its artistic and emotional stylistic. goals. Like, it is definitely much more of a dreamy, you know, peaceful experience and one that is like a montage. I'll agree that the ending montage did feel fucking kind of cheesy and phony for me. Like, to me, just the emotions did feel a little like, like, oh, yeah, we're making it

end now sort of thing. Yeah. And the narration did a lot to also, like, turn me against the film, because it felt very like, I don't know, pat and oversimplified and a bit sentimental. So, yeah, I've seen a few complaints about the narrator, but I kind of like the texture added with this idea of things being out of time and the, just giving these little details to these characters that you'd never get otherwise without the narrator being like, yeah, he died of a heart condition that 30 years later was like, the cure was discovered for it.

And there is this kind of deep sadness to it. And there were like a victim of circumstance, because of where they are and how they are forced to live because of the environment. And that's what really got me in emotionally early on, especially, was this sadness, which is emphasized by the structure of these big time jumps, of this main character having to leave his little girl. And every time he comes back, it's like a different person because he's away for so long. And yeah, that was like quite emotionally affecting from the jump off,

let alone where it kind of goes throughout the story. So, yeah, I found it kind of edgy a seat. stuff as far as stakes are concerned. Yeah, I, um, I, I don't, I don't have like too much to complain about for this movie or to like be wowed over. I think that, you know, in terms of how it presents itself, it is up my alley in terms of the vibe and the visuals and the sound design, like very, very few complaints with that. Yeah.

I do see the similar. similarities to Terence Malick, but yeah, I would I would just, I definitely see them as different things because this one's just, you know, a lot more narratively straightforward, particularly than Terence Malick's recent films and, you know, even the camera work doesn't go like nearly as crazy as even Terence Malik's most narratively straightforward films. It is just something that, you know, kind of gets you to experience and feel the environment in a very sensory way. So in that sense, like, yeah, there's similarities, but like, yeah, very, very different films with very different goals, too. And what's interesting is this director made a film called Jockey before this, which I don't remember too much about. I was kind of like not really into it.

But it was not, it was not like this in style. So I kind of like that he's experimenting and. doing something very tonally different between projects. I do appreciate that aspect. Yeah, I just, I wish I liked it more. I wish there was more like specifically about like this guy. It did just kind of feel like he was like an avatar for the audience. And I wish like I could, I just wish I knew like what the movie is really trying to say.

it just kind of feel felt like I guess quote unquote like a tone poem and like a meditation on you know life and what does it all mean and it really wants to get to some kind of catharsis and it's very self-consciously is trying to be like we're getting there there's this feeling this this this break especially towards the end of the film or it's like it's all building up to this and I just I feel like it's reaching for something and not really grabbing it and I guess I admire like the the intention behind that and wanting to reach for that but I

feel like it it fails there yeah I just I felt like it didn't have extremely strong like specific you know narrative goals in in in some senses but I do like that

I do like the held back in reserve nature So yeah, I guess what it's trying to be I think that it did a good job at being that Just with some minor criticisms I like William H. Macy Yeah, there were a lot of nice side characters that just kind of showed up and disappeared and Got to see like glimpses of their Lives and they all felt you know real and developed and Interesting like all these side characters that we don't spend much time with they don't feel like unnecessary You know, terribly presented characters or anything.

Is it okay if I talk about a quick spoiler about the beginning of the film? Sure. I don't know if this is a movie you can spoil too much, but yeah, go for it. And we'll wrap this up quick too because we got another huge movie to talk about. Sure. Like an example of the difference, I guess, in tone between this and the book. And again, I haven't read the book just the beginning, but this is an opening early scene in the book where there's a Chinese worker on the railroad who is accused of something and he's thrown off a bridge. And in the movie, our lead character, our guy, he just kind of passively watches it happen.

And this kind of haunts him, you know, this guilt that he didn't do anything. In the book, he is actively participating in that. And it's like it definitely gives a better insight into like, you know, he's part of history. He's engaged in this. He's not like just an empty kind of guy. just kind of like observing what's going on like a forced gump character he's um he's there and the the guy they try throwing off the bridge he doesn't die he like escapes he like clings onto the bridge and flees and so apparently for the rest of the book he's kind of haunted by like what if he

comes back and tries to kill me um wow oh okay so it's a very different vibe yeah that that helps me understand your uh whitewashing comment a lot more because yeah that does feel like that was probably left out because that would just be too challenging for like the average fucking just make him look like shit Netflix watcher to be able to grapple with like wait this is a good he's a good guy I'm supposed to like this guy or is that yeah that would be more interesting for sure I think maybe it also like appeals to this idea of like especially you know we're we're living through history ourselves and it's like how morally culpable are we in crimes being committed you know and and how you know it's just it I I

Again, they might have half-baked thoughts on this, but I think it changes significantly, like, how you are in interpreting this. And like what it's saying about our lives, our responsibilities, how we choose to see ourselves as participating in the world. You know, so I don't know. But yeah, it also got me thinking about, like, in my own life, the idea of progress and what's our equivalent of getting in a plane and experience something so just out of your world? Pretty conventional. This character, the world who was born into, for him to live that time and the progress that he lived through and that change is quite extraordinary.

So that visual of him, this character, everything has been through the torment and the hell that he was born into and experienced to then have these ideas of space and flying. It's like symbolically very powerful and very freeing. And thought-provoking. Because, yeah, what is our equivalent plane thing going to be? It's going to be something even crazier, probably.

I love learning about this like period in history though because it I love it. It is like so wild to think of like like there's this anecdote I read. I think it was in like about the building of the Brooklyn Bridge and there's this little girl who was like when she was an old woman, some reporter asked her like, what was it like seeing men on the moon in 1969? What was that like? And she's like this was nothing compared to when they built the Brooklyn Bridge. Like I was there when that opened.

That was insane. That was like going to outer space, you know, for her. So just like that idea of progress, like how fast like things are moving. It's just hard to even fathom. That kind of lack of law and order, the lawlessness of this time. I really like that scene where a lot of the drama between Joel Edgerton and his wife is just trying to figure out how they can spend more time together. So she suggests at one point, why don't I just come with you and like live on, you know, the camp. he's like, it's too dangerous.

It's fucked out of it. So that also feels to me like a very modern sensibility. You know, like, I don't know if I'm projecting there, but it did seem like they had like a very modern type of lifestyle and idea about being together. And it's like their kind of relationship was felt very modern. And I don't know. I just feel like people of that era would have a different, I feel like the filmmakers were kind of projecting our modern moral views onto that time period a little bit.

Probably. Yeah, I'm sure that's true. I think that happens a lot with a lot of things. I'm sure, yeah. I guess, yeah, the sentimentality you're getting at just wound up working better for me. I am a sucker for these vibey movies, these slower kind of thought-provoking things. Perfect days.

Yeah, yeah, I love perfect days. And it's beautiful. I mean, the images are beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. So I just like sitting in it and, yeah, thinking about it. It worked really well for me. Going back to the kid, I thought the kid acting was actually really good and convincing and the way it was shot.

I wasn't brought out of the film from this little kid actor. I thought that was really well done. Adam, did you hate the kid? I'd have to go back to my notes and I would have to find them. I don't remember. If I didn't say anything about the kid in my TIF review, then I didn't have anything to say. Okay. Nice.

All right. Seven out of ten. Yeah, I'm slightly above this, like a four star. Happily watch it again. Love that. Brevity of it. Felt a lot of meaning from it. Five out of ten for now.

Nice. Hell yeah. All right. What's next? Time to get castrated. Oh, hell yeah. Castration movie. Anthology One.

Traps. Although the title is like, recently changed. Yes, is that still the name? It's like something else now. Yeah, what is it called? Because the version I saw wasn't called Traps. It was called.

No, yeah. Let's see if I can... The other title is more of a mouthful. I kind of like Traps is a better title. But, you know, maybe I'll... I think it... Wait, let's see. Letterboxed, maybe we'll have it.

Letterboxed. Yeah, maybe. Maybe on, I've got it. I've downloaded. It was... It was the fear of having no one to hold at the end of the world. Yeah. And this is worse.

That is a worst title in my opinion because it's too long. Yeah. No, I understand what it's saying with the second title, but we don't want it to be as much of a mouthful. I think the name and word traps also helps to sell it in terms of like, you know, it's kind of like edgier. sensibilities as well. Right.

Right. Yeah. And like that does tie into the 4chan 4chan culture thing too. True. I do just like the title of castration movie and like the posters. Yes. The graffiti and everything.

It's like that's a cool title. There's something attention grabby and exactly branding. Yeah. No, there was something that beckoned me to this film. Somebody posted about it on my subreddit a while back. Yeah. Is that how he found it?

Yeah. Yeah. Somebody posted on my subreddit. And, you know, I'll add things to my list or whatever, but I go to the IMDB page. I'm like, okay, first of all, title, crazy title. Run time. Crazy runtime. Volume one. Yeah.

And then, like, the description, trans sex worker Michaela mentors her newly outfriend Adeline while pursuing motherhood in Vancouver, right? And so it's just like, okay, we got trans, we got Vancouver, we got fucking bold choices and just like obvious confidence about what it is. And then you watch the trailer. I'm like, okay, this thing looks like a fucking home video. Like, okay, what is this? It's got like good user ratings.

It didn't have that many, especially at the time. And so, yeah, I just, I was like, okay, something is beckoning me to check this out now rather than having it stay on my watch list for fucking forever because it seems like it would be something. At the very least, I would find it interesting, right? Mm-hmm. And yeah, I wound up loving it.

It's, uh, I've seen it, I guess, two and a half times. Wow. And I just saw the sequel, actually, a couple nights ago. Oh, I'm interested to hear about that. Yeah. I guess we can talk about that after we talk about the first part. Yeah, let me know. Um, yeah, what did you think of, uh, castration movie anthology won traps?

Um, Alex, go ahead. Sure. Um, I'm still breaking this down. Okay. Honestly. Um, I would. this yesterday in one chunk, which are... Nice.

I don't know. I would have preferred to have actually broken up. I wish I had broken up. You didn't. Because I don't know. There's a four and a half like hour runtime here, which is the biggest like, how's this going to flow type thing? And I think it is my biggest issue with the movie is I don't understand the runtime

being that long. But in saying that, there is something unique and great in here with, with, you know, we with like a level of like awkwardness that I can't believe it's not British. Yeah. Some of these scenes are able to to get some of these arguments, this like feeling, this overbearing,

kind of anxiety to a lot of it. It's really effective, especially for that minuscule micro budget that it was made for, because that's obviously one of the biggest fears is like the lower the budget goes, the acting quality, the sound quality. That's really some of the biggest things

that can hold something down, but it uses these things in its strength I found for the most part. often carried by really good dialogue and performances a lot of the time. So I don't know, I feel like a kind of mixed experience with the structure of it, there being kind of three parts to this. I really loved the first one and felt like it was kind of losing some momentum as it was moving around.

And it was like big and ambitious and messy. But I feel like there needed some bit more editing in here to, focus this a little bit even though maybe that broadness is what makes it what it is. I'm still trying to figure that out and how it fits into part two and three. This being this enormous, probably going to be like 14 hours long in the end like story, whatever it turns out to be. Um, those are my general kind of top level thoughts. Um, an extremely hard sell as well as far as like explaining it to somebody and like, um, getting the, the movie out there and the concepts out there. Um, But the people are seeing it, it's really connecting with, I think.

Yeah, what about you, Jake? I was really into this. I really thought this was, like, I didn't really know what to expect going in. But it was just, it really captivated me from like scene to scene because of the sense of authenticity. Like, it just felt so, so authentic. Yeah, definitely. Like, you're really getting. a sincere look at a culture and group of people who are living this and know it so well.

And it isn't like trying to perform for an outgroup or something. Like it felt very much like this is art about them for them. And that was like so, you know, seeing the trans experience in this way is it's really unique. and so it just holds no bar. Like it's really very sincere and funny and deeply uncomfortable in a lot of it. That being said, it is like a test. It was a test of my patience for it being as long as it is. And like there is so much that's like, holy shit.

Like this is so long. Like some shots are just so long and so long. drawn out and I'm like fuck okay like I had to take it in chunks and because I was getting sleepy you know I was like but that's just me with any movie like it is hard to stay awake these days except the avatar

yeah well yeah I mean it's so similar because if this was in 3D then maybe we didn't this movie is very like transgressive and and very like there's stuff in this I've never seen in any other movie and for that alone I'm like

I have to like appreciate it. You know, there's like bodily fluids and, you know, I don't know what I can say on YouTube, you know, with content stuff. Pink flamingos kind of stuff. I think like I'm just like impressed about how it came through like these people who like are like there's like are they improvising? I don't know. Like, I want to know more about how this was made. Like, how much was improvised and rift and how much was planned and premeditated. And, like, some of the choices and the structural choices, like, the fact that the whole first

bunch of this movie is, like, this guy just going on this doom spiral and, like, destroying his life. And then it becomes about all these other characters for the rest of the movie. And, like, the dynamics are so interesting. And I was just, like, so. immersed in this world in a way like I didn't expect and even though like it was a struggle sometimes to be like fuck I'm just like my patience is like going elsewhere I'm getting kind of tired it's like when a scene would like kick up a notch you know and they're like arguing about why didn't you read Dune like that moment and just like why are you like why don't you want to

wear the dress I want you to wear like I know better than you because I've been trans longer than you. It's like you need to listen to me. These are things like I haven't thought about and seeing it, you know, depicted on the screen just felt like shit. Like this feels so real and authentic. It was so interesting. So I'm very happy you recommended this, Adam. Good. I had a really good time. Yeah. This is, this is great. Yeah. Honestly, like the way, the way I feel about this maybe. So the second time I watched it, I watched it all in one chunk and I found it to be like pretty easy to get through like maybe some points in the second half where I was like okay a little slow but yeah I mean like it's a four and a half hour

long movie that to me felt much quicker than like Thor 11 Thunder. you know like any number of like no I'm not I'm not I'm literally not even kidding. All right. Yeah. Sure. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a crazy ambitious project that, you know, now that I've seen a few times for sure, I do very much get like the thematic purpose in terms of the choices to make things

in that way. Or at least I have my own interpretations. And yeah, like, it's it's it's it's a type of film that is not shy of its own limitations, but instead uses them as, you know, yeah, as as its selling point. Exactly. It knows exactly what it is. It shoves it in your face. And I just, yeah, the fact, the fact that there is enough of a culture behind this film. people are excited for it.

People are excited for the new ones to come out. And who knows the extent of how popular it will be over time? I think it's already, you know, what we could consider to be like a cult film sort of thing. Yeah. She's like in the UK right now touring part two. I think it's super fucking cool that there's a good chunk of people that are excited for a type of art.

project that is unlike any other that has existed, right? I want to see new things. This is a new thing. And it's not just a new thing. It's a new thing with purpose. It's a new thing that that knows why it's doing new things. It's providing not just perspectives, but experiences that, you know, you're right, are incredibly authentic. And, you know, when we think about, trans representation and media in any sense. There's absolutely nothing like this that showcases and doesn't shy away from things like surgery and like after care for said surgery and like these thoughts that... The fear leading up to it and everything like that.

Yeah, yeah. The fears and anxieties and concerns leading up to it. The thoughts in these characters' heads about, you know, like there are own psyche, their own introspection's kind of put on display in varying different degrees and varying different ways. The fact that these characters, just, you know, despite being trans in a film, there's no concern over how these characters are portrayed from a moral standpoint. They don't have to be, you know, perfect angel goody-to-shoe people and they don't have to be villains, you know, like they can be complex, flawed people and just exist in ways where you're

right, Jake, it's not concerning itself with audience members outside of its own demographic. And that's how it's able to be so unashamed and unafraid of what it is. Yeah, like that's what I really appreciate it. And it reminded me in some ways, and this is like unfair. to be like, oh, this other trans thing that I am aware of, you know, but it did remind me of the book, Detransition Baby. I don't know if you guys were, it was like a literary sensation a few years ago. But, you know, the author, Tori Peters talked about how she wanted to write a book, you know,

about trans people for trans people that wasn't like concerned again with like the outside world. And it's like from what I've seen, it seems like any depiction of trans people in, in media, in film, and the history of film, it's like either horrible, you know, just abominable or like so, like whitewashed and simplified and like, you know, target version, you know, that's like, you can't talk about the, like, not even real people, just symbols of people, you know. And getting to see something like this that is very much, it's also very Vancouver. Like, it's very clearly about these, these people in specific, like, I think anything that makes art, Like art is so much better when you're looking at the specifics, you know, and like the specific details.

And the little details in this is what makes it so unique. And, you know, I was doing research and seeing that. There was criticism of this because there's no, you know, people of color in this, really. And, you know, that's an interesting, you know, thing. But it's also like a very Vancouver perspective. And from what I understand, you know, Luis was making this with her friends and, you know, with limited funds. you know so it's like interesting to see what could come about you know from this filmmaker and I I really want to see more from yeah yeah there wasn't exactly much of like a casting call

that's what it seemed like to me or like a production even right which is shocking for how good these performances are yeah of these arguments and stuff it was all it was like almost like this is England for some of these like arguments and stuff like nice this is a really realistic and as you guys are saying sincere which um even beyond the like core of the the the trans experience i found the integration of like 4chan and the internet stuff to be quite artfully done because that could be its own like if that was done the wrong way that could be super like cringy or embarrassing well and also that's a lot of ways like universal not just to trans people but like this version the side of the internet that is just like self-hatred pure self-hatred

you know um relatable and like being radicalized and being pushed and pushed in certain directions from yeah what you're looking at or what you're obsessed with online and it's hard to take that like 4chan energy and what it represents and do that honestly and apply it to characters that feel real and don't feel like a caricature you know the hacker known as 4chan type just over the top bullshit um of course yeah i really like that element of it yeah like things that can only come from like being a part of an experience Like you're not you're not like someone's fucking grandpa trying to teach kids about the dangers of the internet sort of thing Yeah, yeah, yeah, just like oh yeah this thing like this is this we're just gonna include it

Yeah, there were moments in this movie that made me so upset like so completely sad like specific moment. I don't know. Are we getting into spoilers? Sure, we can spoil it everybody watch it. It's great. Yeah, and also not only watch it it, it's fucking like three dollars on gum road for both movies. Yeah, Castration movie, gumroad, search it. Yeah. Yeah. So, Louise's character, I forget what her character's name is. Michaela.

And also traps, depending on. Right, right, right. Nicknamed traps, right, yeah. So her relationship to her boyfriend, you know, throughout this movie is so painful. And it's like, her character is so, like, fleshed out, so well realized that even though becomes aimless and kind of directionless, like, from the get-go, you're like, oh, she's kind of a bully. Like, she's not like a nice person.

Like, she's kind of the life of the party, but so deeply flawed, you know, kind of like telling her friend, like, oh, just, what was it called? Transmaxing. Yeah. You just need to transmax. It's like, so funny. And she's like, no, you have to do this. And he's like, I don't want to do this.

It's not fun. It's not fun. No. And we're having fun. And so, like, you see this side of her. where she's like this, this energetic force, like this force of nature. And I love characters like that. I like watching any or like reading about characters that are like a force of nature in themselves.

But, you know, deep down, like she's like has that like, again, like browsing 4chan at the end of the day. And her relationship to her boyfriend, like at the end when she gets on her knees and begs him, this guy who's basically like treats her like dirt and is like, I just one more night. just and just hold me you know like it is so so devastating it's so sad to to watch that um but it just felt brutally like honest it was kind of incredible but nicely balanced against that humor yeah super dark humor and very i don't know if you guys have seen peep show or the british like one of the best sitcoms ever no it's um yeah on a level of like awkwardness um and like a you know intentional, cringe-worthy kind of like setups like a sitcom. Like some of these scenes are so unbelievably awkward.

You know, you mentioned the Dune argument and the tracks like a character is just getting trapped in this fucking situation, but they don't want to be there. They've got to get to work. And it's like all these kind of awkwardly relatable sitcom moments that feel organic in the way they just kind of manifest with these different scenes of them interacting. And especially I keep going back to that first 90 minutes, but the character dynamics there,

I really loved with this kind of relationship with boyfriend and girlfriend falling apart and having these awkward interactions with each other and it just kind of escalating and the the whole picture of it being the in-cell Superman and opening on this Superman speech. This like really long speech and it just being kind of gut punch with it. What the fuck are you talking about, dude? And just developing this incelly guy and his after he breaks up and he starts like shadow boxing and writing poetry and stuff and it's just something so fascinating

about this dude and some of his quotes I'm the great machine you're the little machine and then like crashing out and everything it's like I found that to be a fascinating character to watch where I was kind of disappointed

that it did change focus to such a degree and I hope there's more on that character in the second and third parts maybe yeah none of these characters are in part two but there are there are characters

returning for part three. Okay, I'm extra curious then. So is there a thematic through line for this? Like some, do you see like more of a shape to it after seeing part two? Uh, I mean, depending on your interpretation. Like people have made connections, but I mean like, they're all independently, like as their own project projects for sure. They're all independently purposeful. And yeah, I would say that there are ways in which there are through lines

thematically, just you know, I'm going to continue watching to see them develop for sure. Can I read my interpretation of that whole beginning section? Yes. To me, that's like like,

kind of like a prologue or just like a thematic prologue to this world and environment where it's like this guy is like deeply repressing. Like I think that guy is trans, that person is trans and is repressing, but is like not even aware of it. And I think that whole sequence is trying to like show that pain and like kind of ground it there before you get to more of like this. I don't know. Like it just, I feel like it's kind of important for setting up the tone of the thing, even though I would have liked to see more like narratively what happens. happens to this person.

Yeah. I feel like this person is like, could be lots of other characters in this movie if they hadn't transitioned or something like that. Right, right. Yeah. There is definitely like a common through line of like self-hatred for sure. Yeah.

Which is, you know, a big problem, especially in queer communities. Mm-hmm. You know, it's a, it's a struggle that not everybody has to go through.

Yeah. One thing that I came to terms with on my second watch was, you know, the fact that Michaela's character, or sorry, that Michaela, you know, she, she's going through her own transition, but doing it in a way that's entirely outside of the system. Right. Where she didn't have to, like, wait for doctors. She's, like, getting these estrogen injections, like, online. From Ukraine, right. Or like through a friend, I forget exactly how. But like not through the proper medical system without any doctor approval and wait time and all that.

And I think that that thematically ties into how the film is made in the sense that like, you know, there's some people where to do something that's important to them. Like you can't wait for everything to be lined up and have. everything in the right place. There's some people where it's just going to be like, fuck it, I'm doing it. And we're going to accept all of the risks and drawbacks of doing it in this way without the proper channels. And that's what this movie is.

It's just like, yeah, the entire film is DIY, the entire filmmaking experience, the music even. it's all just hey we're doing it and we're doing it outside the system and we're doing it our own way that's the experience of a lot of queer people even not considering you know the the transitioning or like getting estrogen and doing your own injections even not considering that like queer spaces are all products of queer people carving out those spaces and doing things like themselves. Like the whole furry community, conventions and, you know, like the types of environments that we create are ones that we decided are good for ourselves and nurture the things that we

like and are free from the things we don't like outside of those spaces, right? Like every, every queer community has those things. And so, yeah, in that sense, it does speak to a very very kind of universal sentiment among people that don't exactly feel like they fit in with the rest of things. Right. Yeah. I mean, I like how every person, every character in this movie is going through things uniquely and differently.

Like there's no just like one narrative of this. Yeah. It's like you transition and this is what you do, blah, blah, blah. Like you said, like some of them are, you know, getting drugs through a friend or going through the medical system, et cetera. So like, yeah, it was just so, so varied a lot of different, like, insights there. And I watched an interview on YouTube after watching this with, it was an interview with Louise. And she said something that was like, you know, at the end of it, it's like you need to have, like self-love is like the key to doing anything positive in the world.

Like, if you don't have that little, that even finding a little bit of self-love, that's like the key. Um, and I feel like this movie is, is about that is like finding self-love and how do you, um, navigate that. And I also think it's about like, you know, the idea of transitioning and these characters transitioning. That is not like, um, you're still, um, a flawed person. You still have these problems.

Like, you just don't see that in media in the same way of like, you know, the old, uh, I believe in trans rights and trans wrongs, you know. Yeah. That kind of thing. Right. And just saying that, it was just so refreshing and interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

And to even acknowledge the existence of people that, you know, saw their own transition in a way of, like, trying to fix problems about themselves and thinking it would fix other, like, emotional problems or make their lives better or, you know, it even acknowledges, like, the idea. of a character that might like pressure someone into transitioning, right? These are things, these are topics that are just like so touchy that's just most people would just be afraid to even include them in a film. Like from, from this film and the sequel, there's types of characters that like, if you describe this in a reductive way without any nuance and you're just describing like the base, like, beat by beat plot or like type of character, you might even say it in a way where it sounds like an anti-trans movie, you know?

Right, right. Right, right. But it's not concerned about that because the authenticity is present and notable, right, just from it expressing itself. Right. I mean, from what I understand, it seems like there are, of course, going to be trans people who are like, we need to, like, why are we showing people that? Why are we putting this out there, you know, it's going to, you know, draw negative, you know, or anything like that.

But I feel like that's the case with a lot of like perhaps, you know, people who were, who were like concerned about, especially when they're being targeted and there's so much hatred. You know, it's kind of brave, I think, to put something out this like this out there and really put it all out there. And I feel like it, to me, it just felt like a big, you know, like it shows, it has so much empathy in there. And there's, at least for me, it gave me so much empathy for, you know, trans people. and what's going on. And like, I think anytime you can show people's humanity authentically like this,

that's not just like, not just like doing something good in the world. It's just like, it's good art. Like, that's what makes good art. So, yeah. Yeah.

It is, it is very much like kind of an exercise and like radical empathy even. Yeah. Yeah. Which is something I connect with. And I'm sure there's stuff like, I know there's lots of stuff

that probably went way over my head. that, you know, jokes are, you know, sure, various things. But to me, that also makes it more interesting because I'm just, like, absorbing everything happening, happening in the film. And, you know, it weirdly felt very, like, cinematic because I like that, it, I wonder how different it would be

if was shot, like, in high definition, it was, like, on an iPhone or something, because I do think the old, like, kind of camcorder look, it feels kind of timeless, like, And it reminds me of like a Lars von Schier film or it feels like it's trying to harken back to that look. So it does to like my mind reminds me of like art house films from like 2000, early 2000s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. But the way the camera is actually used in the dialogue scenes as well, the way it will linger on someone let the performances kind of just sit and feel like organic and natural and sell it. And I don't know, part of this is what is kind of frustrating about. my core critique with this where I love I think every single character in this and I'm intrigued by their character drama and I love

What they're talking about and seeing their their world like manifest But I was kind of contrasting it with Jean Delman Delman and the idea Jean Dilman and Yeah the idea of purposefully kind of frustrating you or boring you as part of the artistic kind of expression but making it into the cake and I just unlike in the omen I didn't really feel that for some of these shots here that were like just lingering I don't know what I really learn about the character or move the story along when I see traps like brushing her teeth in the shower for like four minutes and then again later on and I get it like builds atmosphere and

mood but I feel like that that was actually a strong suit of the film anyway and I guess it's that balance of your pure unadulterated vision and what you want that to be and the idea of like yeah maybe maybe you could trim this down you could no focus it because i don't know for me that was something that was making it especially in the second half where i was feeling the fatigue more of it yeah especially after losing that momentum of the that first 90 minutes where i was like really sold and like, oh, cool, where's this going? And then having to build it all up again, and then it being four and a half hours, I don't know.

As a full package, I found it valuable and expressive and important. But that did hurt its overall. I guess entertainment value, if you want to call it that, or just as a package for me. I agree. I think that the pacing issue is like the main flaw to this, at least for me. I do think it would be so much more impactful and stronger if some of that was cut. Only for Normies. I don't know, Adam, what is your...

I do feel like it's a Normie filter. Exactly. The barrier to entry is important. But I feel like it doesn't need that. I feel like it's just like putting on airs a little bit anytime it takes that direction. No. It makes it so that the people watching are the people that really want to be watching. It's a balance, right?

Because, yeah, you want that for sure. That are getting a lot out of it. That is making it connect, yeah, in a way that it might not be able to otherwise. But also, I feel like the idea of, that's one of the great things about art, right, is to communicate experiences that aren't yours. And when it is true and can connect, it doesn't really matter what the subject is, like, something that is true and emotional and important could wake some people up to, like, some of these experiences.

And I feel like these characters are good enough and the drama and dialogue is good enough. Yeah, in some form, there would be people, like, open to seeing, it, but I just feel like that packaging can just present itself in a certain way, which, as you say, is intentional. But I just want more people to experience it, I guess, is where my frustration at it lies. I'm with you completely. I want more people to watch it. And I think even if it was like a three-hour movie, that's still like, you know, a challenging runtime.

But I think that's much easier to recommend the people than four and a half hours, you know. Yeah, well, you know, it's challenging to recommend for sure. But I mean, the content itself is challenging. I mean, there's, you know, when you have scenes of someone peeing on. There's so much that would be challenging regardless. Yeah, heaps of nudity, jerking off sex. Yeah. I mean, it's like a John Waters film.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking of pink women goes in there for sure. Yeah. I mean, no, it's, it's, I do feel as though the, the runtime and pacing is like another reason why it's special. I probably wouldn't have been as eager to check it out if it wasn't so ridiculous. Just knowing like, okay, like what the fuck is it? What, you know, you'd better be fucking confident about what you're showing if you're going to do this, right?

And it was, it was. I feel like I still feel that way at three hours, though, you know? Hmm? I'd still, I feel like I'd still feel like, wow, this is a big swing, even if it was three hours. No, those are rookie numbers. Three hours are rookie numbers now. It's not like a competition, though, is it? It was like, like, five and a half.

Like, two years ago, it was like nine out of ten of the fucking best picture noms were, like, over three hours. How many years ago was that? Like, these are rookie numbers now. And it's like, you know, it's a long spanning film project that isn't even done yet. It's released online. You know, I think she said somewhere, like, yeah, you can, like watch it on your phone and, parts or whatever. The way I see it or the way I feel about it, it's something that is akin to to like a miniseries or a television series where, you know, it might not have the episodic breaks

in the exact like, okay, it's been 49 minutes. We have to end this episode and then do a cliffhanger and then start the next one. Sure, we might not have that. But it is, you know, within anyone's grasp or or abilities to you know just pause and come back to it another time if they want in terms of i don't know pacing and length and interest i mean like i've binged through longer shows than this film so yeah i i don't see the runtime as a big deterrent for me i feel like yeah it's a part it's a part of the charm for sure. And one more time, like, way, way faster pacing for me in terms of my experience on this planet than like 90% of Marvel shit. Like, it's just, I'm actually interested and invested by what I'm seeing on screen. So even parts like you mentioning her brushing her teeth

or whatever, that's not a very long scene. Sure, you could say like, oh, is that necessary? But when you're into the vibe and the aesthetic in the same way that to you Alex you know you're going to be much more attentive and and comfortable and into watching something like train dreams or perfect days that's a type of voice and that's a type of vibe that you know a lot of other people might find boring and they might find like oh whatever the guy's like not doing anything what's this about you know sort of thing and if it doesn't connect with you it doesn't but this type of film and what it's expressing in the ways that it does connect with people,

it's that exact same analogy. It's not difficult to get through if it's speaking to you on a personal level. So yeah, the runtime does not hurt it. It makes it more interesting for me. Yeah, I guess that's where, I don't know, I feel like it does actually connect with me on like a human character level.

there is just something about that tension of the I don't know I just don't feel like it needs that it does insane runtime because I don't know it's one of my most recurring critiques I would say like it's like runtime of films and you mentioned the difference between yeah I've binged like a miniseries before but there is something about that structure I don't know if this was a three episode thing

if that critique could even be fair in the same way but it's not, it's a, it's a castration movie. Like it is, maybe it's not intended to be watched in one burst, but it can be it is. That is how, the framing of it, how it's presented to you, where I would actually suggest to anyone like me who was kind of put off by a runtime like that. If you just did one a day of like one of the three parts,

I feel like that would be like perfect. Yeah. And maybe you wouldn't feel that momentum shift and I think that would flow a lot better. and maybe I'll do that for the the second part which uh yeah it's a shame we didn't have a little bit more time because I'd like to see that second one and include that in

conversation or maybe one in the future um sure yeah we could we could talk about it in the future for sure yeah reading about what that second one looks like it's about um I'm very intrigued how long is the second one it's longer oh great and it's and it's only one chapter okay okay interesting and there is an intermission Okay, very interesting. I also love the second film, and I believe that the things that you love about the first film are also going to be found for you in the second film, but your criticisms are going to be more present, I feel. But maybe I could be surprised.

Maybe maybe the... story and type of environment and way it's presenting itself will be more entertaining for you in a way. Yeah, if what I read it is true. Adam, were you surprised that we liked us so much? I had no expectations, really. Oh. I was, I had, it could have gone either way. Okay.

But yeah, like, the first film is like easy to recommend to people in the sense that, like, I think most people will get something out of one. of the two stories at the very least. Yeah. The second film, I don't, it's more difficult to recommend for sure. Wow, okay. It's making me more intrigued. Well, yeah, so like the, the connections to like Doug Walker boldly flea thing, they're not,

that wasn't a troll, but it might not be explicit to everyone who watches it in the way that I perceived it. Wow. So it's definitely there. That's amazing. And there is, I'm not going to say or spoil, but like there's like a,

there's reasons for it to be there in that way. And I've found my meaning from that already just from a first watch. I, yeah, I've only seen it once. I, I want to say I like part one better.

But who knows, I'll, maybe I'll watch this a second time and love it even more. But yeah, like I, I, uh, very, very interesting. A lot of this one was filmed in New York. Okay. And, um, it has, uh, what's this person's name? Ivy Woke.

Who, uh, I know. Yeah, I've heard of, I've heard of her. Yeah, yeah. And she, and her character is really funny in it. She's in Anora. She was in, if I had legs, I'd kick you. She had a role in friendship. Wait, so this was partially funded by the Canadian government, right?

I would be not surprised by that at all. I'm pretty sure it is. Because like arts, grants, and funding, pretty sure you can just... There are easier paths. Isn't there a Kickstarter as well or something? Yeah, there was a Kickstarter. Okay. Yeah.

Probably a combination there. But we could ask whatever we were. want it if we get Louise on the podcast and at some point we could do that in January. That'd be cool. Yeah. That'd be cool. No promises. Maybe January, maybe February.

Nice. Yeah, very special, very unique experience and also the fact that like, yeah, the second movie is also unique. Like, it's not, it's not the first movie. It is in many ways, but it's not. I heard it's darker. Is it like darker? It is darker.

Oh. Okay. I. Interesting. Yeah, I don't want to. spoil the what to expect really

I mean you say Doug Walker and I'm on board so yeah it's very weird but yeah I saw one thing when I was looking at the wiki about like a framing that did seem very like oh that's that's interesting

yeah I think that if if you're having a similar pacing grievances that probably the first two hours are going to be the most difficult for you but then after that it will be fine okay um cool yeah fuck I love you guys finally watched it you were forced to watch it finally we were forced yeah yeah yeah happy good

oh thank you yeah I'm glad I watched this are we talking about any another movie we talk about so many movies we know yeah this we it's question time after this but uh what's your rating for the ratings oh um i'm gonna do seven out of 10 that's pretty good yeah i can be slightly lower like a high three and a half star i feel like there's a four-star movie in here somewhere yeah that's kind of where i'm at um totally what do you that's but my experience it hmm you said slightly lower but high three and a half star is higher than seven out of ten sorry high three stars what i meant say yeah um do your fractions right yeah but i feel like there's a four-star in there somewhere. Okay. Yeah, I'm, I'm very curious what the both of you will think of

part two. And now that you started, you have sunken cost fallacy and you have to continue it till the end. Yeah, yeah, I've already got to download it off-come tree. Nice. I mean, yeah, you've already paid for it. Yeah, might as well. Watch it at your own leisure. Ten minutes at a time. Take you a couple months. Yeah, this is a, This is an 8 out of 10 for me. Maybe I think for now I'm giving it a high 8 out of 10. I might give it a 9 at some point. All right.

It's so special. It's so special. It's so unique. Like very like culturally important and relevant and just bold and daring and confident and showed me something I've never seen before. It works. The choices are motivated and smart. It understands its own.

strengths and its weaknesses it also uses as strengths and it's crazy to have yeah like a good Vancouver movie that feels like Vancouver just yeah it's it's very special glad people are checking it out yeah check it out I'm sure we we get in the best picture nod you think no oh that's too bad yeah well that's that's that's that That's generally how unique and daring and transgressive art works is that the Oscars doesn't know it exists and we'll never acknowledge it. I'm scared of it, yeah. Yeah. I'm very curious about like the distribution, like how like financially successful has been given it is a kind of like a cult underground hit, it seems like.

Just intrigued. Oh yeah, like it's got it's got legs for sure It's got legs And the fact that you know It's The fact that it's so online focused That helps the Conversations

And the marketing of the film And yeah With each successive film Like by the time three and four are released Like it's got a good amount of momentum Going I would love to see one of these in a theater although

although I do feel like both of them benefit from subtitles yes there are some parts where it's like okay without these subtitles I would be yeah because I started watching it and the subs weren't working on my projector and I just had to stop it and move it to a different screen where it did works as I can't I needed yeah subs

I watched it on my fucking phone. Good. Yeah. Just like funny games. Just like funny games. All right. Shall we get to questions? Gorsh.

So how has your week been, Alex? It's been an okay week, I guess. I don't know. As I was saying earlier, December's just like, I just feel like there's no time. Just to get ready for everything. Seriously. Holiday stresses me out.

I don't like it. Same. Yeah, it's stressing me out, too. Does anybody enjoy it? Should we all just stop? We do it for the kids. I feel like when I'm in it, like, yeah, when the family's all together and stuff, it's like, okay, this is this one, but like, man, there's a lot of stress.

Everyone is just, I mean, everyone's just trying to, like, get to the end of the year. And, like, all the, I think, honestly, for me, it's, like, routine. Like, I love routine. I like things being the same every week. And then it's, like, a whole month, starting with, like, Thanksgiving of things, like, being slightly off. just trying to like juggle time yeah you should move your Thanksgiving to October yeah I know I know celebrated uh Canadian Thanksgiving with you guys I celebrated my first American Thanksgiving this year

so I also had two Thanksgivings but I do love I do actually like you know spending time with my family so just need to make that clear I like actually you know doing it but but the you know the stuff around it is annoying. Yeah. Questions. Yeah. Okay, let's do some questions then from the side on the cast community. Head over to the suggestion thread over on the subreddit if you want to leave questions for future episodes just like Jojo's crazy Reddit did. A few people asked about this.

What do you guys' thoughts on the acquisition of the Warner Bros buyout deal between Netflix and Paramount? Here we go. Not only are we having Trump make the decision for whether Netflix should buy it or not, but Paramount is making a hostile takeover bid for Warner Bros. Discovery valued at around 108 billion and just recently as I'm writing this they're already rumours spreading that Netflix considered buying EA Fox and even Disney before the buyout of Warner Bros. What could this mean for the future of cinema as this monopolistic situation seems to be becoming more egregious than ever? So this is the latest one in the really boring game of monopoly where everything is just becoming like three or four companies that own everything.

How's it legal? I don't know. But here we are. I, so it's so funny because like David Zaslaf just seems to have, you know, kind of just destroyed the reputation of Warner Brothers over really quickly. A few years. Like, oh, and then we're changing the name to like Max and then changing it back and like nothing. It doesn't seem like very smart calculated business decisions. Like the shareholders voted against. him getting like a fucking paid

bonus. Yeah. So it's like, you know, the shareholders are feeling it. Like, they're pissed at him. Just a guy making just what he feels to be smart business decisions

and none of these decisions involve art in any way. No. They don't involve any sort of like importance on art or preservation of art, you know? having films be written off as tax. Well,

just like IP. Just tax write-offs. Yeah. And then never premiering them ever. And they get lost to time and become lost media. Even if the film is bad, that's a bad thing to do. You can't be fucking presiding over an art company

when you don't give a shit about art. And so, yeah, they're, uh, whoever, we lose. Who gives a shit? I don't care. Any positives to be drawn from it? I don't really think of any. No. I mean,

there are people who are like, well, this is better than Paramount because Paramount is like, you know, siding up to Trump and getting on his good terms and stuff. And it's like, what do you think Netflix is going to do to get this deal to go through? Like, because Trump is basically holding the cards here. You know, the FCC has to approve this. And it's just,

such a horrible situation and like really depressing you know but it's also like the perfect neoliberal like outcome of like you know like yeah i think during trump's first term there was like this illusion that uh the companies are like and the corporations and the billionaires are like we have a system of norms and we're going to follow them and now it's like all right we're going to cozy up to trump and we're going to make sure that he's happy with us and we're going to get what we want and uh do all sorts of heinous shit to fat in our pockets and that's just

you know like you look at the quotes from the CEO of Netflix who's it Ellison David Ellison I don't know forget his name the ones of the

the cinema's a dead stuff yeah he's saying like you know we're what we're doing with Netflix and with showing movies at home is like we're just giving the consumers what they want and the consumers don't know shit they don't know what they want

You know, and also like, yeah, it's just like you're, it's the same tech bullshit. I fucking hate the tech industry and how they try to revolutionize things that don't, like Uber. It's the same fucking thing where it's like, let's revolutionize ride share apps. Let's get rid of cabs, you know, with all these unions and having to pay money, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we can just get people to use their own cars and go into debt fixing their fucking cars so that they can make not, not, not. a livable income, you know, driving people around and say that this is better for everyone somehow and it's fucking atrocious, you know, and that's what they're doing with movies. It's like, let's reinvent movies so that we can make no money ultimately. Because like, where's the profit

system here? Like, okay. Like, even with Netflix, I feel like they are like hiding the fact or trying to like deny themselves the fact that you can make money with movies, you know, putting movies out theatrically, like with the fucking K-pop demon hunters. Like, even they put out that, like, briefly, because it's like, that's just money on the table that you're, it's just stupid. It makes, it's, it's, it's so stupid and bad. And it's just going to fucking hurt movie theaters even more. It's bad.

Well, yeah, we're just in the situation where we've let, like, Uber's a good example. Amazon and Netflix are other examples where they kind of use the business model against everyone, where they figured out, okay, we structure these businesses and run them at a loss, just for so long that we just soak up the market. And so, okay, now we own everything. Now the prices rock it up. And there's no competition, so there's nothing anyone can do. And it's like, okay, how does that help any consumer?

All we're going to see is prices go up because now, like, I mean, they bought a significant chunk of Hollywood in the market of cinema. As far as like the biggest movies of the year, they just bought up like a quarter of like the biggest shit that's coming out. It's, I don't know. What is even the point of antitrust if this kind of stuff can happen? I felt the same way when Microsoft bought Activision and the EA stuff that went down. I don't understand how this is even like legal at a certain point. It's the gilded age.

It's literally, it's just the gilded age. And there's going to be hopefully at some point a backlash and like something to try to. But it's going to have to get worse before it gets better. Like, you know, the movie theater industry as we know it is it's just going to suffer and potentially die and just going to be like a niche thing. I've heard people talk about it like it's going to be like going to a play or going to a concert, you know, to like see something theatrically in certain cities, you know, and it's not going to be available all over anymore. And it sucks. It's really sad. I'm just never going to get over the fact that like all of these, you know, like the most popular fucking media.

commentators are all these like weird like culture war type people. Hasman golden and shit. Yeah. And and like here here is like one of the most obvious prominent examples of a person making decisions that are anti-art. And you know, they that that was their claim against people like Kathleen Kennedy. Right. Who they who they make like a trillion videos on. Yeah, and you search these exact same channels with the term David Sasslap, and they either have no videos, or the few are talking about how he's, like, based and have him, like, yeah, and, like, using the exact same, like, Hillary losing, uh, screaming person in the thumbnail.

So, like, one of the titles right here, David Zaslap, attacked by woke mob after Warner Bros. cancellations, back girl actor demands release as if, like, these, wokesters want a movie released and this based guy is saying no tax write off, right? And so now, like I just did a search out of curiosity. I'm like, okay, are they even going to mention this fucking merger thing?

It appears as though these people, and there's very few of them even bothering to make this argument because it seems very silly. There's very few people doing this and the argument is now, David Zaslaf will have the last laugh on the Warner Bros.

Netflix Paramount Bidding War. And I've seen people make this argument. Very few. But they're saying, no, because they're selling it for more than it was valued. So, like, it's like more money. So even though, like, the value of the company tanked because of him. Yeah. But they're, like, selling it for more.

Yeah. So, like, he was playing 40 chess the whole time, just like Trump. Of course. He's base. Well, and, you know, like you guys are saying, like, Netflix was running at a loss for years just so that it could carve and literally just like destroy a section of the industry. And not only just like in terms of like accruing wealth or getting viewers, it was like getting validity in the industry. You know, and all of these Netflix movies getting the prestige and getting nominated for Oscars.

And that was like a huge strategy, especially for all the streamers and still is in a lot of ways, you know. And James Cameron, I know Adam, you have certain feelings about it. But I think he had a great quote recently where he said that Netflix shouldn't qualify for Academy Awards if they're not actually showing the movies theatrically and not just like a two-week window or something. I think that's great because I think that would motivate Netflix and studios to actually put their movies into theaters and have them play. And like I think it's a stupid loophole that they can just show Frankenstein for two weeks or a week. And then it's like, okay, now we can get nominated for an Oscar when really it's like, is that not just a TV movie? Should that not be up for an Emmy?

You know, it's weird. It's weird. And I think like there are so many mistakes and it's been like a slow motion disaster building and building and building. And now we're at this point. And it's just like, oh shit. Like things are irreparably damaged. And it's just the maw of capitalism eating everything.

and we're just kind of, what can we do? We just are watching these billioners play with their little train toy sets. It's going to be like three left. Yeah, actually. It's going to be Netflix, Apple, Disney. Universal. It's like just everything. Sony.

I mean, I did definitely cancel like the HBO max, literally just because of decisions that I believe have to have been from him because they were just like, oh yeah, we're removing all of this shit for no reason close to the end of like a tax year right I'm like oh these shows that I watched are gone and not available anywhere else and this is stupid and like come on come on what are you doing like what am I paying for I thought it was for the content library now you're saying no yeah actually we don't want this on here yeah so definitely yeah shivering truth is a great fucking show sorry why is it not there disgusting disgusting there's one yeah

service left that has not been getting worse and it's only been getting better and that's piracy. Oh, I was going to say Apple. I feel like Apple is the only one. Apple probably is the best one as far as like quality per thing put onto it. Which one? It's more like a prestige thing. Apple. Apple? Tooby. I like Tooby or not TV? Because like, but I don't think Apple, Apple's not like a market leader in the streaming space. It does just feel like a, well, we're like a trillion dollar company.

we might as well just have this prestige. You know, some of these get nominated for Oscars. We've got Scorsi working on shit, whatever. Seriously. Worth us to do that. Yeah. They're acting like Netflix in the early days where it's just, let's just burn a bunch of money to try to get into this world. But this is also a huge blow for like physical media, you know?

Yes. Netflix is going on that. I mean, you'd have to be crazy to think Netflix is going to care about putting out all of the like Warner Archive, Blu-Rays and restoring films. Like, come on. No. No, no, it sucks. Yeah.

Although, like, Netflix has had some deals with, like, criterion at points. Yeah. So it seems like they're, like, not as bad for that as, like, Disney. Because Disney just doesn't give a shit about physical releases at all. Well, Apple also, actually, they haven't put out in, like, Killers of a Flower Moon or, you know. Well, these companies, they must have run the numbers, right? Yeah. And figured out that it's not even worth their time.

Right. And it's more valuable to them to keep people as a subscriber. than to get a little off the top from selling. Yeah, I mean, if I'm not going to fucking own it, then I might as well pirate it. Uh-huh. It's weird that they don't get that. Yeah. I mean, in the future, it's just, you don't own anything.

You just rent everything and you don't, you know, you just keep paying constantly in perpetuity. And, like, it's just, it's going to be sad when it's just like all of this culture, all these movies are just fading and not being shown anew to new audiences. Because, like, yeah, Adam, like, you. You can pirate things and find things, and that'll be out there for dedicated fans and lovers of film. But, you know, for, you know, a teenager, like discovering movies and watching stuff. Like, on Netflix, how many movies are older than, like, 1980 on Netflix that you can watch right now? Mm-hmm.

Probably, like, two, you know? So it's like, if it's not being shown and curated to people, most people aren't going to, like, even discover it or seek it out. And it just makes it harder and harder to keep that alive, like, in the culture. And we're just, like, making our culture worse. Yeah. Not to sound like an old man, but, like, come on. No, I mean, yeah, that's why there's value in things existing outside of these spaces. Like, castration movie is just doing its own fucking thing.

Yeah. Doesn't need Netflix. Mm-hmm. Right? Doesn't need a lot of this shit. It's just like, okay, yeah, well, we're doing it and people are finding it. Yeah, hopefully the vacuum is filled by stuff like that. Yeah.

Cool things happening in the culture. And you guys can fucking be mad about Disney movies, not being other Disney movies. I guess kind of on a similar note, this is an interesting question from D.HMO Protection Agency who says, What are y'all's thoughts on Letterbox's video store? Where they're releasing some rare films in films without distribution to their platform to rent? Are you planning on using it? Do any of the films on the initial slate look interesting to you? So this is something I noticed, it was only yesterday, I think.

I was on Letterboxed and saw this new category on there where you can rent. It's pretty obscure films directly through the Apple website, which I thought. It's actually quite a cool idea. Letterboxed? on letterboxed yeah I can send you an article with like some of the stuff that's on there yeah if it's supposed to be like you know the film

the film bro site like yeah use use that platform to get eyes on you know the stuff people don't know about yeah could use some more voices more accessibility is better I like things being available and if that it's between that and it not being available

obviously it being available is great you know what I like is that when you click on some of these titles In fact, all the ones that I see available on actually three out of four for the unreleased gems category, they say 4K. So they're not skimping out on the pixels. It ends is in my watch list, so I'll probably watch that at some point. It's a weird time in movies because there are so many, like, unique, lower budget films and, like, filmmakers able to make things than ever before. And I think that's a big part of like technology in the internet and like some kind of democratization there where you can do that.

But also like it's so saturated in that. There's so much new stuff. And also like it's either the big budget stuff or the super, super low budget stuff. And I think we've talked about this where it's like the middle is just falling out completely. And it's just probably going to keep moving in that direction where we're going to have like one avatar movie, one Marvel movie. theatrically shown or maybe not I mean because again like if you're

you can't be making Avatar movies if a shit ton of people don't come out and pay money to see it and if movie theaters are closing and dying like unless they're there I think honestly a lot of these studios are hoping AI is just going to come in and fill in that

and make things cheaper and make these big budget movies cheaper to make so that they can make things like Avatar without paying people you know there was a deal just announced right with um disney and i think it was chat gbd yeah um something something some ai image thing it's going to be integrated into disney plus and yeah obviously that's where it's going to go open ai oh disney invested a billion dollars open ai yeah there you go love it nice i love how there was a point where people were like oh disney is going to come after open

a i for using their trademark oh wow louis let's side with disney here they're going to be the bad guys and it's like no they're they don't give a fuck about you they're gonna make a deal they're gonna profit off of this uh yeah man yeah i feel like that's come up just time and time again on this podcast is this idea of um just access to this stuff it's so frustrating to me um how much money's just being left on the table with just the way this shit is being introduced to people or just cut off from people for the dumbest of reason reasons. Yeah, it's really frustrating. But I got this one from proper Elephant 7762. This one's for Alex specifically. I noticed how Alex occasionally uses the financial success

bad movies like Love and Thunder and the Minecraft movie make as points against them, whether it's him ranking Minecraft on a 2025 letterbox list below Snow White because the former was successful, or saying that Love and Thunder is specifically egregious for being successful compared to other recent Marvel movies like Quantummania and Brave New World. I obviously understand that it could be frustrating to see a bad movie succeed financially, but don't you think it's a bit biased to view the success of a bad movie is a mark against it? Surely the money made is separate from the quality overall. So you guys jump in if you agree or disagree, but I guess, yeah, they are like a separate thing.

The money a film makes is not an indicator of quality, I don't think. but I do feel like a frustration at the industry consequences for something like a Minecraft being successful because it frames it completely differently like Morbius being a flop a double flop like only makes it funnier

and makes the whole meme better and the fact that it wasn't rewarded for that is some sort of weird like calmic justice whereas those bad habits are being enforced with something like a Minecraft movie and that's more what I'm kind of opining about is the fact it is successful,

the fact that it's just teaching them that they don't need to try and that they like, yeah, does mediocrity or something straight a bad or a borderline, like offensively, stupid, can be a success. I don't know. It does feel like some justice linked in there when something is as artless as a Minecraft. than it being one of the biggest films of the year,

even though it's not an inherent metric of quality. Yeah. As far as money spent or money earned. Yeah. What do you guys feel on that? Well, I mean, I feel like none of us are, as much as we try it, like, objectively viewing a work of art in isolation

and judging it in that way, like all these things are going to factor into it. And especially if a movie like Thor Love and Thunder or Minecraft movie comes out, like, that's going to influence, like, how much money it makes and the success. Like, yeah, that could rub, you know, that's going to influence how you think about it because those are products.

Like, first and foremost, those are designed to make a shit ton of money. Those are designed for money. That's not like a, there was a creative, artistic goal beyond that. Like, I'm sure there are people who, I know there are people who work hard on those movies to make them as good as they can be or they're trying, you know, in some instances. But ultimately it's like, yeah, this is a business product. this is a product. So, like, you have to, um, interpret that and factor that in as much as you want or try to filter that out as much as you can, I guess. Yeah. I mean, obviously, you know,

a film's financial success doesn't really translate to its quality for me at all, really. Like, they're just entirely separate things, you know, some of the best movies in any year can be ones that people just didn't see. And that can exist for a variety of reasons. The idea that like, oh yeah, if a movie is good, people will see it. Like, that's not necessarily true. Like, it needs help. It needs word of mouth.

It needs accessibility, right? It needs to be able to be shown in ways. You know, you can have a movie that nobody would have cared about otherwise be a success. just because it was advertised properly and just because it was accessible and available and like the right actors were in it but you know people watch it and then maybe they might not even like it and it'll just be like a you know a huge success

that nobody likes like the fucking third Jurassic Park movie like a billion dollars zero people liked that movie every single person came out of that movie being like that was shit I liked it Jake liked the movie it was shitty fun nobody else had fun Just Jake. Yeah. Right.

Lion King 2019, a billion dollars. People thought they liked it. Now nobody likes it. Nobody even remembers it. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It doesn't link to the quality.

And it's influenced the direction that funding has gone. It's influenced the direction that the culture and the film culture has got. Like Disney just triple quadrupled down on these shitty remakes because it became the most successful. Yeah. highest grossing animated film of all time at the time. Which is part of why I feel like that's why it's interesting to bring it up as far as like analysis or your feelings

towards something. But you have to be able to pick through what is being talked about. I'm not saying Blade Runner 2049 is bad because it didn't make money. Like I don't give a shit about that. But I think it's interesting to talk about like okay, why did people not go out to that

when it's on its face the most like obvious like you know, it's like a remake of an 80s classic and the do, but it is separate. I think that's fine and both are valuable. Yeah. Should we do one more here? One more. Let's wrap this one up with this one from Arturini, who says,

people always talk about great movie scores or great video game soundtracks, but much less people seems to keep TV show scores in the same regard. What do you think? Why do you think that is? What do your favorite overall scores or single music tracks from TV shows? Yeah, I'm not sure why that is of like the obvious, you know, sopranos opening or the wire and breaking bad and that kind of thing. There are some good as picks. Like, for me, Dexter, I think it's an amazing soundtrack.

Love the use of harp. It's just stayed as well in the consciousness. Sorry, are we talking about like movie or like the TV show intros or like the full score for the. Scores or, you know, a single track from a show or something that stands. out to you like something musical about TV specifically. Yeah, Dexter is a huge one for me. Absolutely love it. Such a strong identity.

Yeah, I feel like I'd have to like look through my TV show catalog to refresh my memory. Without a doubt for me, Succession, Nicholas Brutel. Yeah, that's a great one. Sure. Yeah. And that's like a genuine like all throughout the,

the whole, that's not just like the intro soundtrack. Like it's a very prominent and really like is, I think so important for like, uh, this sells so much of the drama. Yeah. The way it's used. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible. Severance recently also has really good music. Yeah. It's cold kind of detached. Severance. That's, you know, the Apple TV show.

I think that's a really great music. It's more like newer movies. Yeah, I'd have to, I'd have to refresh my memory because I just, I watch so much less television. Yeah. Right, right. Like six feet underhead. Yeah, that could be a death note.

That's a good music. Seinfeld. Breaking Bad. Mm-hmm. Mr. Robot has some great music in it. Death Note's a great example because I actually like care about the score for that. And like Wolf's Rain, even though Yoko Kano is an alleged plagiarist, then it's very likely that it all came from other shit.

Oops. Don't argue on the comments. Yeah, some good ones. Why are you guys asking about TV? This is a movie podcast, damn it. I feel like we've done TV before. We did Renegade Angel. You did.

I didn't. I didn't sign up for this shit. True. True. Common side effects as well recently. I don't know that. Any chance I can get to shout that show out. I love the music and all vibe of that.

Yeah. Yeah, I'll think about that later. Beast games. Beast games. The beasts of games. Fuck yeah I don't think we did it Some good questions

Yeah All right Jake Nice All right Recommendation time Are you going to give us a Christmas gift Or a stocking full of coal Yeah well you go for us

I'm kind of scared Have you been naughty or nice I think I've been very nice So I had a rec planned That I've been looking forward to I know that our audience would really enjoy. But then Adam was talking about a Christmas wreck the last episode.

And he told me after we recorded the episode what he was thinking of doing. And I thought that actually is kind of perfect. And not that I'm like stealing Adam's wreck, I just think it would be a good time to do this one. So the recommendation is eyes wide shut. Yay. Yes. We did it. Yeah.

I haven't done a cook. you're looking a while. Exactly. I've seen this film in a while. I wish I had gotten the 4K criterion release because I know that's kind of been a controversial restoration. Yeah. Has it?

Yeah, because there are people complaining about the look of it that it looks different than originally. And again, it's like hard to because that was not like a finally authorized version of the movie when it went. Oh. Like Kubrick died like right before it was. totally finished. So there's going to be an interesting conversation around that movie that's, it's, yeah,

this is going to be fun. Interesting. Yeah. So I very, yeah, I haven't seen this in a long time. This is probably my least familiar Kubrick in terms of like everything is made since the 80s or like since the 70s even. So I do, yeah, me not having it memorized visually, the whatever weirdness with the criterion will not affect me. assuming that it is weird. Alex, you've seen this, right?

Yep, I've seen it. I've only seen it once, and it was a while ago. Nice. But I actually remember it really well. It has stuck with me, so I'm excited to see this again. I remember parts of it well. Thank you, Jake. Yes.

Yeah, fine. Lovely, it's a Christmas miracle. It's a Christmas miracle. No quantum mania today. Thank you. If you don't want to see, sorry, if you don't want to be spoiled for eyes wide shut, 1999 directed by Stanley Kubrick, his final film that he directed, I guess.

Watch it before the next episode comes out. These episodes come out every two weeks, but you can also listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com, sign up for premium. It's only a few bucks a month. Or patreon.com slash sardonicast. Or click the join button on YouTube. You can join the members. You can listen by clicking on the, the,

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link in the description. It's at YMSMertch.com. Stick them, man. Normie masterpiece stickers. Get them. All right, cool. Eyes white shut. Looking forward to it.

Oh, yeah. All right. Thanks, guys. Have a happy, have a happy, have a happy eyes wide. Shut your eyes. Holidays. Have a happy closed eyes. Yeah.

And holidays. Oh, whatever. Whatever. You Normies. Have a happy avatar. Avatar 3. Fuck, I still got to buy my tickets. No one wants to watch it with me.

I'll watch it with you. I'd watch it with you if I was over there. Thanks. All right. Happy holidays, everybody. Bye. Bye.