Sardonicast - Sardonicast 206: Sentimental Value, Eyes Wide Shut

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

Listen early and ad-free at https://sardonicast.com or https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Merch: https://ymsmerch.com/products/normie-masterpiece-sticker-sheet Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sardonicast.bsky.social Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@YMS Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Jake's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ManCarryingThing Jake's movie channel: https://www.youtube.com/@womancarryingman Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/yms.bsky.social Jake's twitter: https://x.com/ManCarrying Jake's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mancarryingthing.bsky.social Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Jake's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mancarryingthing Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Fan art: https://www.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/1px8ngo/made_a_new_years_resolution_to_post_artwork/#lightbox Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 1:07 Quentin Tarantino 18:46 Rob Reiner 27:01 Sentimental Value 59:11 Eyes Wide Shut 1:52:23 Questions 2:36:07 Recommendation + outro

Three, two, one. This pot is making you aggressive. That was a line from Quentin Tarantino directed towards Paul Dano. I'm Adam from your movie sex. This is Sardonicat. I'm Alexer, Mikey. I'm just going to go with Fidelio. Nice.

Adam stole my quote, so I'm just like aggressively typing, yeah. The pot made me. aggressive and now I'm just trying to find the pot made the kettle black okay yeah that's a funny line listen Adam no Adam and Alex nobody killed anybody someone died it happens all the time life goes on it always does until it doesn't but you know that don't you know that don't you that was a quote from Trump about Epstein oh my god very mysterious yeah just diving right into it very mysterious thing that happens under his administration you have a question for us in a federal prison. Well, I kind of leaned into it, yeah. So what do you guys think about the

Quentin Tarantino-Paldano feud? Because I think it's funny because I agree. This is so old. Well, fuck. I mean, it's from the past week or two. I believe we, didn't we talk about it last episode? By the time people are listening to this, it'll be ancient. Did we? I think I made a reference to it. Yeah, did it come up in the questions? I think maybe you did reference it. We are like bulk recording a bunch right now, so it's confusing. Yeah, because of the holidays. So if you guys are wondering why we're not talking about Avatar right now, it's because it's not out yet.

We're in the past. We're in the past and we're here to warn you. I mean, wait, it's the opposite. Well, that crazy thing that happened on the first day of 2026. Yeah, that's why we're not referencing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What are you planning to do? Jan 6, Part 2.

We're here from the past to warn you. Did we talk about it? No, not really. I think I said something about Paul Dano because we talked about Tarantino a little bit. But yeah, yeah, Paul Dano. Everyone loves Paul Dano. Nobody has any controversial thoughts about him.

And, you know, honestly, though, at this point, if I were an agent in Hollywood, I'd be calling up Tarantino and be like, talk some shit about Jennifer Lawrence or, you know, whoever. Yeah. Hell yeah. Because it's like, now everyone's like Paul Dano needs an Oscar. Oh, yeah.

It's so funny. It was mean to him. The signal boosts his name a lot. Yeah. Uh-huh. It was just funny, like, why? Because he included him in the sentence targeting out of all sag after actors, right? That's how he phrased it.

Yeah. It's insane. So many people and he's like, goes for Paul. Okay. Well, I feel like there's something we don't know. Oh, yeah. Specifically about his performance in There Will Be Blood. Like that's what he was talking about

Otherwise it would be his favorite film like Ever right yeah And I think it was still on his top 10 or whatever Can we address how insane that list was in the first place His top 25? Oh yeah true actually Let's bring that up That's actually not a bad thing

I didn't look at it in detail Well it says number one Was like Toy Story 3 right Oh yeah Okay so here we go No I did see that Black Hawk down is number one That's right

And then Toy Story 3, Lost in Translation, Dunkirk, and then there will be blood as number five. Zodiac. Unstoppable 2010. Was that the train movie? The woman with Denzel Washington and Chris Pine. Oh, my God. Yeah, Denzel Washington and Chris Pine directed by Tony Scott.

That's a Tony Scott movie. That's a good movie. That's a good movie. Number seven? I wouldn't say it's the best. Of the 21st century, he says. I wouldn't say that, but it's a good movie. So he's got both scouts on there.

If I had it kind of interesting, I feel like Barack Obama's film taste is like more eclectic. Because he releases his list every year and there's like some good shit on there. He's not respectful lists. You know, like there's some normy shit for sure, right? He's got a good mix. Not to be conspiracy brand here, but there's no way Obama picks his actual lists. Come on. I mean, there's got to be like a committee.

Right? He's not in office anymore. I don't know. Why not? Why wouldn't he pick his own? He's an institution. He's got to, you know, he's got to pick. Maybe for sure. Like, not everything's a conspiracy. There's no, if I had reason to believe that it was like handpicked by other people, then sure. But like, I don't know. I feel like he, there's no, there's no reason to believe one way or the other. So I'm just taking it at face value is basically what I'm saying. I'm not saying it's what you're saying is impossible. I'm just saying I don't see anything to guide me in that direction over the other. Yeah. Okay.

Like if he was about to pick something like radical, then he probably wouldn't include it. But he's, I think he's politically savvy enough to not need an institution of people to tell him that in the first place. I think his own instincts would self-censor in that sense, you know? I don't see why it would need to have another person telling him. I think his list is secretly trying to reveal secrets about the Epstein files. Oh, what if we take all the first letters of Quentin Tarantino's topics and rearrange them? All right. Mad Max Fury Road, 2015.

Sean of the Dead. So midnight in Paris Nice Woody Allen Battle Roy you know Woody Allen's shown up in the Epstein pictures all the time Yeah I saw some social media posts Before before that point

I saw some social media posts of like other Like I guess filmmakers that are on my friends list on like Facebook or whatever And there you know there were people posting videos that are saying like okay, you know, there is a bit of nuance to the Woody Allen story. And this was before the Epstein photos, right? And they were saying like, okay, he didn't raise the child that he wound up marrying after she wasn't a child sort of thing. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I could see the argument where you know, it's like, it's like

less crazy to me than the Michael Jackson defender. I guess. But now looking at these photos, I'm like, okay, now I kind of have to assume the other direction. Now I'm kind of leaning in like, okay. Positive between. Wait, are you saying, I've been fine with Woody Allen until he's in the Epstein. Well, I don't even know. To me, that's the step too far. I'm just saying it takes a lot for me to make like hard conclusions and judgments about people

in those kind of like ethical ways where I'm like okay there has there's like a strong threshold that has to be crossed where I'm like okay I'm a person that naturally gives the benefit of the doubt but you know that could be a weakness that could be like a mistake I don't know that's just how my brain works

um it's just what I do the whole Woody Allen situation is insane I mean it's decades of insane stuff I mean, it'd take hours to go. I mean, it's like, yeah, we can't get into it. No. But I'm just like, I've seen the other perspectives. I'm like, oh, okay.

I get, I get where your argument is coming from. But like, you have to also just, I don't know, it involves not believing certain things. For me, it's like with Woody Allen, it's like, I don't, I don't know. Like, I have no idea what's going on there, you know? And to me, it's like, there was a period in my life before I knew all of this stuff. about him where I was just watching Woody Allen movies being like, oh yeah, I like this, you know, where it's like, part of my brain is, I feel like I'm kind of good at just being like, okay, I can appreciate the art here and not really, you know, think about the artist. So it just, but it, it, it varies on who is doing what and all this sort. Yeah. It's complicated. I found it easier to separate him from his art when he's in the director role and not starring in his own films. Because I recently. definitely doesn't help. Yeah, I recently watched one where he's like, oh, I'm the lead.

And he plays kind of like a weird pathetic creep. And I'm like, oh. I wonder how ants hits now. Or when he's not preying on underage girls like in Manhattan, it's like, okay. Oh, I still haven't seen that one. That's so funny. Yeah, I didn't see that one. Oh, dear.

Remember when Louis C.K. made like a movie and like in the movie, there was like a conversation about masturbation. And I was like, oh, you're just like putting. The thing you did in your... I never saw that movie. Well, have you seen... Have you seen his show? That's like his entire show.

It's like connecting the dots. And all the Quint and Tarantino feet shots. Same thing. Okay, we are waiting into the most insane shit right now. Like, what is the start of this episode? I like it. I want to go back to that list. We're talking Woody Allen.

We're talking Tarantina. We're talking Epstein. This is why I told you, like... We don't have to fucking... stack the whole thing with fucking a billion movies. We don't have to work. Like, there's tons of stuff we can just shoot the shit. Talk about whatever the hell is happening.

Yeah. All right. To continue the list. Number 11. Number 12. Big Bad Wolves 2013. Have I heard of this movie? What the hell is that?

Yeah, I don't know that one. Big Bad Wolves. I believe it's an Israeli film. Is it an Israeli film? I believe so. Oh, it is? Which is. Oh, boy.

Okay. I gave it a six apparently. I don't remember watching this. Okay, so you've seen it. But Quentin Tarantino called it the best of the year. Oh, it's on the poster. Yeah, literally his quote. That's kind of funny.

Like, when you actually look at it on NDB. He's the only one I've ever seen talk about that movie. Literally, I haven't seen anyone else talk about that film. Jackass the movie 2002 is number 13, which is interesting because I found that the movies got, like, better. As in, like, the number two is better than number one. Number two's got terrorist taxi. That sketch is unmatched It's hard to be on.

All right School of Rock at number 14 Okay Number 15 Passion of the Christ Which is an interesting pick Devil's Rejects at number 16 Number 17

Chocala Or Chocolate 2008 Yeah wait No never mind That's not Chocola That's a different movie Chocolat is like 2000

Chocolate is a completely different movie I'm glad I looked this up From the director of Ong Bach, it's just actually called chocolate. An autistic girl with powerful martial art skills looks to settle her ailing mother's debts by seeking out the ruthless gangs that owe her family money. That sounds interesting. Okay.

Sure. I have watchlisted it. Number 18, money ball. Mid. Number 19, Kevin Fever, directed by his best friend Eli Roth. And then number 20, West Side Story, the Spielberg 2021 film. Okay. Can I say about West Side Story?

I think that's a great movie. I love West Side Story. Sure. The way he couched his comments where he was like, Spielberg's best movie in decades, he like saved his career, like artistically with this. And Scorsese has never done anything as interesting as this. That's what he said? In the past 25 years or whatever.

He said something along those lines. He was like dishing Scorsese. And I'm like. Hello, Wolf of Wall Street, literally. I mean, come on. Insane. Insane comments would be like. It's funny.

So the reason why I find this conversation kind of interesting about Quentin Tarantino is because, you know, he's very outspoken. He just, he just says shit, which is fine, I guess. But at the same time, I understand why people are taking it more seriously. It's because he's a very, you know, respected, talented, known as one of the greats in terms of directors, like very commercially successful, like one of the few household name directors there is. Instead of have him be like, this is the worst actor and all of SAG, just for seemingly no reason. It's like, it seems like out of nowhere, right?

Yeah, it's fine when he's talking about movies as like a story. When it's targeting an individual like that, it feels more like, what do you just have beef with this guy? Did you like want him in a movie and he had an issue with a script? Like, what is the, what is the reasoning behind this? But I want to go back to his number one, which we kind of went over, Black Hawk, down. Have you guys seen this?

A long, long time ago. Yeah, I've only seen it once or twice. Like, everyone was watching this in the early 2000s, obviously. Yeah, helicopter and war and, you know, chaos. Ridley Scott. Yeah, I don't know how that would hold up now. Like, bringing up Louis, that show. I don't know how that would be to rewatch too.

Um, but I just thought that was, that whole list is like fairly understandable. He has some quirks in his taste, that's for sure, but Black Hawk Down is number one. I don't know. That just seems like an odd out of that list there that you'd prioritize that one. Tor Story 3 is a funny one to have there also. It's like not even the best Pixar movie by a mile. True, actually, yeah. Toy Story, yeah, it's a weird one.

I don't know. That didn't jump out to me as much as Black Court Down did for whatever reason. Yeah, just me. guess but yeah I understand I understand that I'm in a weird position because I I I do have actors that I clown on sometimes but I don't know like you're a critic you're you're not working in the industry yeah if I'm reviewing a film and like Lucas Hedges takes me out of the fucking movie and it would be perfect without a minute I like I kind of need to say that as a part of my experience so yeah I'm not condemning him entirely for

his comments, it's just kind of funny and confusing and a silly little drama. I actually like how he's able to talk about his film opinions and doesn't have to feel guarded. I like that angle too, but it's just like if you're going to have these hot takes, like the pulled down it one, like, you've got to realize that you've got to justify that or... I mean, it's not going to hurt him. Because it is all clips from like an interview, right, or a podcast. No, it's not going to hurt him or either of them really or only really help them, but it's more. Yeah.

I don't know. I'm sure there are people that are sour about that. And I were like, oh, Quentin said this again, and it's doing the rounds. And yeah. Yeah. I mean, given his, like, top 20 list, I don't know. Like, does it really matter if he thinks something's incredible or not? Like, watching someone for the films they direct is different than watching someone for their film taste.

Like, it doesn't hold that much weight. Yeah. I feel like people almost hold it the inverse way. And also, it wouldn't even hold weight if he had the most perfect film taste in the world. I guess I'm just the type of person where I'm not looking for other people for opinions or affirmation for my own opinions. I think that's why people value it so highly right because he is one of the few household name directors.

So it coming from him has more of like a weight to people. Whereas I don't see it that way, but I think a lot of people do. Yeah. I think like, I just think it's all, it's strange because you're seeing like the decline of his reputation in a sense when he's so concerned about his reputation and about having the 10 films and they got to be perfect. And like this kind of obsession with that is ultimately like harm it. Like in 2019, once upon a time in Hollywood, like he couldn't be more beloved.

And now it's like, you know, every time he puts his foot in his mouth, you know, all the pro-Israel, you know, comments during, you know, the genocide and all this stuff. It's just a very tone death and just. really like people are like right to just be like, oh, fucking what the fuck with this guy, you know, like. What have you done for me lately, Quentin? Yeah, just make a fucking movie and shut up. Like, that's how I feel about it.

Yeah, that's weird actually going back to the Ridley Scott being his number one pick. He is kind of an inverse Ridley Scott where Ridley Scott seems to not care about his reputation as a director at all and would just do anything to get two films really if possible. Like completely different philosophies as far as. he approaches that work. Yeah. I mean, if he wants to retire and it seems like you, and, you know, write and do like film criticism, then do that.

But I think, like, when you're in the industry and you're like a working director and your words has a lot of sway, you know, on if people are cast or how people are perceived, then it's like, you could almost see in the reaction to other actors, people being like and calculating in their head, okay, he's only going to make one more movie. What are the odds I'm going to be cast in that versus? What is the good look I'll get if I You post a picture of Paul Dano on my Instagram story You know

I just think there's kind of at least throughout Hollywood Like kind of like okay we're kind of fed up with this guy a little bit Yeah and people have to like strategically play games for their own careers Which is just for sure Silly and funny Yeah But also you know here here's my perspective when I see An artist that's also a

crazy person, I go, yeah, they're an artist. So I have like a lot of leeway when it comes to just like people saying or doing stupid shit. Same. It's like, yeah, of course they're an artist, they're weird. I love his movies still. Like it doesn't change how I feel about inglorious bastards or, you know, like, I don't know. It's just to me, it's like those art, that's the art. That's done, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. We also have sentimental value. Wait, wait, wait. Before we talk about that, can we make a quick, okay, Rob Reiner? Oh, yes, please. Okay. Rest in peace.

Yeah, R-I-P. Horrible. Horrible, just awful situation. But I know a lot of people are talking about their favorite Rob Reiner movie. Rob and his wife, what was it, Marsha Reiner? I don't know. I'm not sure off the top of my head. Michelle, Michelle Reiner.

Yeah. So they both were murdered, just insane situation in their homes. Ongoing like investigation, but it looks like the son is the perpetrator. I mean, he's already been, like, arrested and I think he'd been charged. Has he? Yeah, has he not? Oh, wow. I saw some of the drawings from Cole.

Yeah. Yeah. But it's just the reaction you're like everyone seems to be showing. especially like from people in the industry is like, oh, he was just like a lovely person to work with, you know, like all around nice dude. Which is crazy just the reaction then with Trump's post about him was just so unhinged and wild. Oh, yeah. Yes. He makes everything about himself and if someone slighted him at all, then it's like, you know, he can't say anything nice about him.

You know, like he can't say anything nice about like fucking Christmas. You know? His holiday posts are like, and the Democrat, like, he can't just say anything nice ever, unless it's like for a political favor. It's weird because also like you're seeing, at least on like conservative media, people being like, this is a step too far. Which is weird to me because I'm like. And then they'll still support him. Really? That's why they draw the line.

Where is the line? You know, where does the line drawn? But you're seeing lots of like conservative people, especially like conservative Hollywood people. people who were like, oh, no, I actually like Rob Reiner, even though I didn't like his politics, you know. So it just goes to make Trump's comments even more unhinged. But, yeah, my, I guess my favorite Rob Reiner movie is, I guess, a few good men. That's probably it.

Do you guys have a favorite in particular? He really had a run of Normie masterpieces when you think about it. Just like universally miseries. Yeah, great. Missouri a lot. That fan culture stuff's interesting. He'll say I was like, I don't know, a bunch of different genres that you could play in and pull off pretty well.

When Harry met Sally as well, so good comedy. Yeah, I feel like I need to watch some of his better ones that I haven't, because I haven't connected with a whole lot yet. I do remember enjoying Spinal Tap when I was a lot younger, but it's been so long that I just don't

have a rating for it on, you know, on my IMDB. So if I had to pick one, then I would say that. Have you seen The Princess Sprite? Yeah, and it was good, but like reluctantly. Oh. As in like, you know, I get what people get out of this. It's not for me.

Yeah. I saw it a long time ago, but I can't remember it. Exactly. It just didn't leave. It's not one that leaves an impression on me. Like, it's fine. I understand the memes now. Inconceivable.

Yeah. Yeah, people get really emotional about that one I'm sorry, I'm sorry everybody No, that's one that helps to see I think when you're younger Like I you know, when you see that as a kid it's very special Sure, and you know sticks with you but yeah I still haven't seen I still haven't seen few good men or when Harry met Sally Okay

Or stand by me oh yeah I haven't seen that one So like yeah those are like the three that I probably should watch But yeah I think in terms of ones that I'm looking forward to checking out the most so it would probably be a rewatch of Spinal Tap. Mm-hmm. Didn't it just release a sequel to that this year? Yeah. Or I guess last year as I was listening to this?

They were literally like promoting it. Yeah, they were on like doing press junkets and stuff. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, anyways, I thought that was worth to mention quickly. Yeah, it's a weird. I, yeah, it, there's nothing we could possibly like do or say to get people to come to terms with the fact that like this

like having someone in the highest position of power basically just like taking pot shots at people for dying in really tragic and horrible ways no it's you're right yeah like at at this point like you can't like what what what do you even do what do at this point I literally I think it has just made the culture worse in every single,

every way, you know? Everyone is just nastier and meaner and cruel and faithful. And it's just like, well, why not? If the leader of the free world can do that. Entire careers have been ruined over less than that one post. It's completely unhinged, like a president, you know, someone who's more than just a person. They're like a symbol, like the most powerful country in the world.

And it has an effect the stuff they say. People universally denounced Kathy Griffin to the point where like it actually hurt her career significantly. But that seems like really tame at this point. Like it, that was a bipartisan like, hey, that's bad. We shouldn't do that. You know, that's bad rhetoric. We don't want to see that type of, you know, expression and language in politics. You have free speech, but let's not support that sort of thing.

That was the position of everyone across every political aisle, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that sucks, but other news that I don't know if it is good or bad, I don't know if you guys heard, the Oscars will be moving to YouTube. Yes. About time. What took you so long? Yeah.

I'm going to have to do a test run of it to make sure on my stream. Well, it's going to be a while. It's 2029. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll see if, if, you know, the world can survive till then. Yeah. But, yeah, I think it's good. I'll be paying for cable until that day.

Yeah, it has more of a chance of remaining relevant when people see it. Yeah. Yeah, to me it just feels like more of a collapsing of the industries of, like, old and new media. And, you know, I think in the future there's just going to be less and less divide between, like, what we perceive as traditional Hollywood and, like, internet content. When's Mr. Bees going to host the Oscars? That's what I want to know. When's it going to happen?

Yeah. I want to see him put Brad Pitt over a pool of sharks. Yeah. If the goal is to get more people to watch it, then you need to make it available to people. Like, I've been saying this for so fucking long. It's just, it takes a while for them to catch up and be like, wait a minute. Uh-huh.

And put Kaysenat in it. Yeah. Wait, for people to watch it, they have to be able to watch it. Oh, what? Yeah. Huh? A what? Insane concept. Yeah.

Yeah, I hope it's available in every region and I hope it streams fine. Like, you know, the Game Awards stream fine. YouTube out of every platform seems like it would be able to handle it. Yeah, I think so. Like a large amount of people watching. Yeah, I'm curious what their numbers will do. I think in that year their numbers will jump up to the highest in like decades, probably. Yeah.

Um, it's good. I don't know. Any other news, uh, regarding the various movie related things? I don't know. Mm-hmm. All right. Um, just that thing that happened on 1st of January. Yeah. Just that huge thing that happened. Yeah, whatever. Watch out. Yeah, the thing that Alex is up to. FBI, please. My grand reveal would have happened by now. So yeah, you, you're listening already know the truth. So, you're good. Yeah. I'm scared. Um, Senate. sentimental value sentimental value Yolkim Trir if I pronounced it correctly and I forget you guys haven't seen any films from that? No no

I'm afraid not I know the worst person in the world is the one I've heard is the one to go for yeah yeah both of these are like my favorites for sure I was going to watch worst person in the world but I didn't feel like watching two hours of Donald Trump Alright Nice

You need to tone down the rhetoric Excuse me Sorry Someone's got a TDS over here Yeah But Adam have you seen Thelma I didn't like it

I was looking at that earlier On the filmography And thought it was It looked interesting As far as like a fokey horror thing But you didn't like it I didn't like it It was

Goofy and messy and dumb From what I remember I mean some people liked it I don't know Some people were like Why didn't you like I was just curious how it contrasted with this being a, you know, it's a family drama, and that looked more like a genre film.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember much about it other than it, just me finding it to be dumb. Didn't connect with you. Yeah, yeah. I didn't take it very seriously. So far, yeah, it seems like most of his movies are good if they're not in English. Okay. That's basically, yeah, basically what I've noticed.

louder than Bums was also really lame. Because he's Norwegian, of course. Yeah, nice to get Norwegian cinema. Hell yeah. And this was nice. I like stories that are about the artistic process or in this case more the wider effect. You know, like we have lots of films about someone in their peak

or someone who's in the act of making something like a Barton Fink, a writer or Fableman's with the act of falling in love with cinema. But this is kind of like fast forwarding and seeing the... familial impact that they can have and where art can take you and how it can divide you and bring you together and everything about the film reinforces these concepts with the framing of this house and this familial ties and how that feeds into the family drama I thought it was really clever and particularly in a couple of instances where the filmmaking kind of highlighted its themes and trick you in a way that I was like okay you're you're you're

ahead of me, this is very clever with how you're summarizing these big grand ideas, but doing it in a way that doesn't feel sentimental or cheesy and kind of feels real and gets to the heart of what it's trying to say really elegantly. What do you think, Jake? Yeah, I liked it. I liked it. I think that had a really strong beginning, and I didn't really capture that excitement again for the of the film, but those first like 30 minutes with the house stuff and the theater stuff was just really thrilling, like, oh my God, this is great and new and fresh. And it does, it is like a very heavy drama. It is so heavy. Yeah. And touching on suicide and, you know, family trauma and, you know, the history of, you know, Nazi, uh, uh, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um,

involvement and you know all that stuff it's very it's heavy so um I think that at times it was kind of like a really warm heavy blanket that was kind of suffocating and I I kind of wanted to get out of it at the end I was kind of sweaty and like okay I want to get out from under this but I appreciated what it did and by the final scene I was like yeah that was good like it communicated that it's feeling and message very clearly. And I didn't personally vibe with it in a way, I think others might, if you have a more like similar personal parallel to these characters, you know, and if, you know, I just think that it's going to affect people differently based on your personal life circumstances and your relationship to your family members and all that sort of

thing. So, um, and where you are at and what, what stage in your life you're at, you know, So I could imagine myself watching this again, 10, 15 years from now and having a different experience. And like, that's a good thing. That's a sign of like good filmmaking. So, but I didn't love it. But I did like it a lot. I'm sorry. Okay.

No, no, I'm really glad to have watched it. Okay, good. No, yeah, I consider Yo Kim to just be like, at this point with these two films in a row, I consider them to be way up there in terms of talent and in terms of having a vision and being able to express and communicate that vision through the language of filmmaking. You mentioned that opening sequence.

Like the editing and the way that everything flows together with the narration and the music, like every single piece of the puzzle in terms of creating a cinematic experience is just very, very meticulously thought out. I love the set design in this film. It's something where, you know, it's... Whenever people think set design,

they think of like some really out there Oscar-nominated, like bombastic, like, oh, yeah, we created a new town or something or like, this is a science fiction thing. Yeah. But to me, like, I think that there's a lot of value in creating a space that just feels naturally lived in and you learn about the characters

through the environmental storytelling of what their living space looks like and the house is like a very important character in the film even so to have to have that feel just so natural and nice looking and captured really really well through the cinematography

also So, yeah, so many incredible elements of filmmaking working together in this, I feel. Yeah, I mean, it's, it is, there's some stunning filmmaking in it, especially like with the house and what comes of the house and how it's, like, it is a movie about like filmmaking and art. And that's something also that might maybe repel me slightly because it is a bit like inside baseball, like here's, you know, seeing artists in a movie talk about art, you know, with seriousness. And it's not a very, there are some funny moments, but it's generally very heavy movies. So, like, I think that's something that always puts me off a little bit.

And that's just me. That has nothing to do with, like, the movies quality. I'm glad you said that because I have a similar thing with movies that can indulge into that kind of romanticization of, you know, you all a film and that level of it. But, yeah, inside baseball is a good way of putting it. But I thought this kind of managed to avoid it because of how it didn't feel romanticized with some of these characters that was presenting that very easily could have been. You know, there's an actor character who's kind of distraught with this stage fright that she's suffering with and then her relationship to her director, dad, who's kind of struggling as a director at this point in his career and getting funding and having to make kind of sacrifices and incorporating the streaming model. And it doesn't feel like it's, you know, a saccharine in any way.

It feels very, yeah, and this kind of family drama that it's built around this dad director. And the ramifications of his commitment to his craft and, you know, he's kind of like this famous director who was something big at a certain point. But now he's got these two daughters and it's strained and he's trying to communicate all these feelings through his art. And I love that kind of tension and dynamic between him and his immediate family with the daughters. love how the script didn't prioritize him as a character because he was the artist and he had everything to say because he's this big director. He's wise and he's like the head of the family dynamic type thing at this point. Yeah. So yeah, I thought it kind of skirted past those kind of fears that I was having, you know, as it was getting moving. In terms of characterization, like

I felt like it was a really honest and complex approach. I like that every, every single character in the film, to me, I just wanted to learn more about them. And it felt like there was so much more to them than just what we were seeing in any given scene. I like that, you know, there is this history that they have to grapple with where he is a bit of, you know, an asshole and a manipulator and a, and a person that puts his art in such high priority that he becomes really uncaring and doesn't fulfill any of his responsibilities of being a father. And now they have to grapple with the fact that like, you know, is he only just coming back into their lives just for the sake of this artistic idea he has? Is he doing a bit of both? Like the the broken trust and the generational trauma associated with that culminating into what we see these characters

as and you know having that also reflected in the like very real and thoughtful representations of anxiety and depression um and self harm like addiction um yeah yeah and there's there's such a very very well thought out subtlety to how these very you know uh complicated concepts are handled uh not just through the writing but also the performances like throughout the entire film, to me, it feels like something that is incredibly layered because it's not just about what the characters are communicating

in any given scene, it's about what they're not communicating. It's about what they're thinking behind what they're expressing, which I always find to be something fascinating to chew on where there's more than one layer to how characters are expressing themselves, like an underlying tension throughout each scene even if you know it's not explicit I like stuff like

yeah a lot a great example of that is the the scene where Stella and Scarsga's character goes to once the film starts getting moving he goes to see his old cinematographer that he's worked with his whole career and the way that scene goes with the cinematographer and this whole idea of being past your prime perhaps or in a state where yeah the anti-romancellization of like these concepts like filmmaking and it's staring you in its face what it looks like the addiction taking its toll the the drinking too much and the physical part that catches up with you and the realization on the character of like oh without saying a single word he's come in with a certain level of excitement and enthusiasm and

by the end of that scene that's just changed completely like his realization of Oh, right. Maybe I'm not as young as I used to. We're not all like whippersnappers anymore. Yeah, there's some kind of weight in history and everything feels lived in and believable. It feels like they've had these careers and that they've known each other and have these certain repores, even though maybe they haven't seen each other in a while and they apologize for not communicating enough between the gaps. And yeah, it just feels very genuine and sincere. Yeah, and the fact that I'm like I'm able to recall so much about it and even down to how certain shots looked and felt that I haven't seen since September, like early September.

It's like a really positive sign of something sticking with me. Yeah. Yeah, I saw it at like TIF in early September. Anybody curious we're recording this episode on December 18th? You're not going to hear this until January. Yeah, I've clarified that. Oops. Hopefully more people have seen this by now, though.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, like, this is, this is, I think this is pretty, this is going to get some Oscar Nums. Based on how the Golden Globe Noms went, I think this is going to get some Oscar Nums for sure. True, yeah. Like more than just international. Yeah, I think that's a safe bet.

There are a few I would hand it to. I think Stelling probably could get a knob. And, uh, how do you say, a name, Renet Rainsfee, the Nora Borg character. I thought she was excellent, um, going against him. Had a lot of like a lot to unpack with her character. Yeah. But I was, I was loving it as a whole piece as far as what it was saying about,

you know, the artistic process and, uh, almost like a whiplash type quandary at the heart of it. It's like what, what is worth it at the end? But it's almost like an inverse to that movie to me where it feels like, yeah,

everything kind of clicks into place because I was more like Jake. I was kind of in love for that first act. And there was some. sagging in the middle where I couldn't really see what direction it was going or how it was going to wrap up a story like this without getting too melodramatic or whatever. But where it winds up ending to me was like a one of my favorite endings of the year. I thought it was so clever without spoiling anything. I think, yeah, using filmmaking to make these thematic points just feels like a real cherry on top just, yeah, that final puzzle piece falling into place. and yeah just really making that point hitting it home hard with that ending

I love when arcs can be completed with just like a couple of visuals and not having to over-explain what it's getting at and it's like a single image or two in succession can just summarize like a concept that it's going for so cleanly and so powerfully it's one of the things filmmaking is special for so yeah I'm trying to probe my thoughts right now because I'm agreeing with so much of what you guys are saying, but there's, and I'm trying to figure out what exactly it is that is keeping me, like, arm's length from this film. And I think a major aspect of it is how it treats the artistic process as like a sacred thing. Like, I, I think the filmmakers believe in the artistic process, in the process of making the film as a

healing, like a healing and a sacred process that, um, is, like for example in I would I would have preferred if he wasn't a genius director you know what I mean and I know this

this might sound like a weird complaint but there's so much like it's kind of hard to portray oh he's a genius filmmaker and this is the genius film he's making and it's just I kept feeling like um like it didn't feel like that

you know like it felt like so um serious in that relationship with L. Fanning, her character and how they discuss and treat the artistic process, I didn't feel a sense of like ironic relationship to it. Like it is treated so earnestly and sincerely and that's fine. But I felt like I have a different philosophy, I guess, about what's going on here. And to me, it felt very corny and kind of pretentious. And I think that's fine, but I ultimately, that, that's what ultimately kept me from really appreciating and feeling the emotions of the ending of the film, which ultimately like, to me, this guy,

and I don't, I don't know if we're getting the spoilers. We can if you want. Spoilers, everybody. Spoilers. Yeah. Spoiler talk. Because my, I think my biggest issue is the way his, ultimately what brings her to, what brings our main character back to her father and kind of brings the family to a state of like if not acceptance

then towards healing is reading the script and I always kind of reject and kind of cringe at that feeling because it's like this is you know the father who has harmed them and who is an asshole and we see his behavior throughout this film and how he's neglected them all his life and is so selfish and obsessed with art yet well his art is that actually his way of connecting with her, you know, and this is like his beautiful, and it's like, I just don't buy it. I didn't buy that he earned that. I didn't buy that the character, you know, I felt disappointed in the characters, even though, like,

they get closer and they feel closer to the father. I just still felt kind of like, fuck you, you know, like, and maybe this is my own personal bias and relationship to, you know, whatever. Like, we all bring in our own baggage to this, but that's what I've. felt, you know, at the end of the film a little bit. That's a valid way to feel about it. I don't think that the film exists in a way where someone feeling as though, you know, someone not buying the expertise or like, you know, expert filmmaker type talent of this guy.

I don't feel like the film exists in a way where you can't feel that way. But that might also just be my personal experience of like, okay, yeah, there's a lot of highly regarded artists that I also don't think are good. But, you know, for her to read the script and for that to have that emotional impact on her, it doesn't necessarily need to be some kind of like objective, like, oh, yes, a masterful writer, all it needs for that to happen is for that to have a personal connection with that character. And I think that there are in real life and reflected in this film a lot of artist types that do find it just easier to communicate through art,

which, you know, would be the case for a guy that's neglected all of his real personal life and relationships and focus so hard on his art that, you know, he's some renowned filmmaker. I think that that might, you know, that fits pretty well in terms of the type of person that that would be. Yeah, like things that he probably. should be saying in person he can like put in a script sort of thing and perhaps you know like

it was expressed in the rehearsal season two perhaps the idea of like detaching yourself from yourself and almost doing it in in a role play exercise allows people to be more honest about their feelings or even more open to accept someone else's feelings in that sense so does the character deserve to have that relationship, uh, mended in any way? Probably not. Um, but I don't consider it to be like something that I wouldn't buy in terms of, uh, it happening in the, the film's universe, I guess. Well, yeah, it didn't feel charged to be like fully like morally conclusive. It didn't like wash it on me that way. It didn't feel like a, like a saccharine. Oh, they like love each other now. Everything's healed. In fact, it almost kind of reinforced the opposite

it where it tricks you with that brilliant shot with it, you know, building up the self-harm stuff and the crying. Yeah, I don't think she has healed. Yeah, yeah. But then with that reveal and the kind of cold way they interact with each other without saying anything, that kind of highlights me like, yeah, this is why he does it. This is his perspective as to this is kind of the moment that makes it worth it. And there is something healing about it from our kind of objective perspective,

watching this and seeing like, yeah, she is an incredible performer in this whole process, I guess, has brought them together as artists, as a family. But that doesn't erase everything that came before. Exactly. It's just all they can really do and all they know how to do at this point. But that's interesting that you find it to be charged the other way because, yeah, it's almost the complete inverse of my kind of emotional experience with this. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I think like I really appreciated when the movie would go out on kind of tangents in a way and explore

things about both of their lives. It really is like a co-lead film with Stalin Scarsgard and Renate, what is her name? Renate Rensvait, right? I don't know how it doesn't matter. But they kind of like co-lead

the film that we get, you know, I love when the sister learns about and investigates the mom's experience, you know, being a prisoner of the Nazis and you know just them trying to understand the two sisters trying to come to terms with how do we deal with this man who is our father and accept what he wasn't able to do and like but not like forgive him for his actions you know like and I think that's what everyone is always trying

to do when you know you're you're always trying to put things in context especially about your parents your family and yeah it's it's extremely complicated. and difficult when you're like trying to have empathy for people who hurt you or wronged you. Exactly. And like I really liked the messiness of that. And that just I liked it when it was exploring that and that there was messy feelings that are really uncomfortable. And I guess just that final sequence felt a little too like cathartic almost. know, but this is a small complaint.

I felt like it was bittersweet. It is a little bittersweet, yeah. Yeah, I feel like it wasn't trying to give us like a solid conclusion on how things wound up other than just like things are still going, you know? Yeah. But, you know, making me think of other scenes in the movie now that kind of reinforce the characters and the difficulty of communicating maybe like with the Stell and Scars guard characters. feelings and the way he talks to people around him. And the only way he knows how is the best joke in the movie when he hands his grandson a copy of Irreversible in the piano teacher on Blu-ray.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is like, not only a great gag, but it says a lot about him as a character and, like, what he prioritizes and what he thinks is important. Yeah. Like, artistically, for someone to engage in. That was a brilliant, like, laugh out loud joke in there. Yeah, he's kind of like, he's just, one of those people that like has ignored everything else in his life and he's

on just such a an extreme trajectory you know like and we see these people these people do exist in real life and oftentimes they're very successful at what they do because because they've put all of their fucking skill traits and EXP in just one I'm hyper fixated basically one area yeah and cause themselves to be an asshole to everybody else because you know you can't maintain relationships right and so and so yeah it's kind of interesting that you know maybe maybe a part of himself does recognize that he should try to mend relationships but because of the the pattern of behavior in his entire life like the only way he knows how to do that is through the the skills that he's developed

over his life thus far, you know? It's, it's interesting. It's interesting and complex. And, like, the fact that we're having this level of a conversation about it is just, that's a good sign. Great. Yeah, it's more reason to love it, in my opinion. There's a lot.

There's a lot to talk about. How did you guys feel about the Elf Manning character? Because now that I think about it, I feel like her character in the American Hollywood version would be like a dumb, blonde actress who can't act, who was like, oh, the studio wants me to have like consider her for the part and it's like she is shown in contrast to our lead character who is good at acting and you know a good you know but it's not like that like she's a good actress she's you know everything's complex yeah yeah very committed about the part so i did do like how that is incorporated for sure um yeah how'd you guys think about that yeah yeah no i mean

everybody felt like a real a real character a real person it's just there was there was depth to everybody. Yeah, and it missed being corny to me. I felt like I didn't go into like a romance element or anything like this. It was, yeah. It was all fed into the main dynamic of him and his daughters, really, with him trying to like basically turn her into his daughter more and more and her gradually realizing.

It's just, it's creatively doesn't make sense. Like, you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole here. I can't be a part of this project, which, you know, that happens even if she is a good actor but the language barrier things obviously a big issue in his filmmaking process and the whole i do like the nerdy film commentary stuff with the netflix angle and his frustrations of getting it made and i don't know that that kind of made it work for me yeah there's there's so much there's so much going on yeah it's a good it's a good movie i like the creative disagreements over the accent where like she on her own does the research on

and tries to implement it and it just doesn't work out on set. And his way of dealing with that was quite interesting, kind of awkward. It was painful. That was so painful. Like all of those scenes with him and El Fanning, I'm just like, oh, God, like, this is just not working. And, like, I kept waiting for him to, like, yell or something. Like, because his presence is so, like, he has so much power in these situations. It's very, like, unerving.

And it makes you think about just the role of director on set. He's treated like a Messiah. Like he has some kind of fucking God, like ability to make art. But how much more delicate he was with her than his own daughters as well. And the kind of contrast is very interesting. Yeah. And I guess part of me is just that nagging part of me is just like I'm pissed that he won, you know, that he got to make his art.

And I question how much of it is, I don't think any part of it was for his daughter. I think it was for himself, you know? Like I do think that, you know, when he talks about that in a sense where he's just like art, what does he say something about like art means like you have to go your own road and not be pinned down to a normal life or something like that? You know, trying to justify his actions throughout his life to them. Like art is superior. And I think ultimately the film kind of inadvertently raises up this. thinking of like art is this higher ideal and this higher thing to chase after and even though he

did I mean I don't know it's it's complicated like the movie portrays it as complicated I don't think he's trying to like morally condemn anything or portray something in that regard I just found that in a sense philosophically the movie is kind of reinforcing that that attitude a little bit hmm very interesting but it was good it was good Alex what was the part that where you said that it was like kind of ahead of you and like that you referenced earlier? Um, right at the very end, I just,

I somehow didn't see that coming with the, yeah, it's, it's such a great ending. It is, yeah, because the fact that it's reincorporating the same trick it did earlier and it doesn't seem obvious or that it's,

even though it seems obvious right after it's been revealed. I thought that was like a, okay, this is a brilliant filmmaking. Yeah. Something I haven't quite seen before. And it, it,

it treats its characters and subjects with such earnestness. Is that the word, earnestness? It's a very earnest representation of its characters and ideas that by that point you believe it's something that that could happen, right? That's the litmus test of like a great film is where they can play with these ideas and have you believe like, oh yeah,

this is something that could happen versus bullshit normie movie number 93 or whatever where it's like, okay, they're not going to do that. right right say you can have the exact same concept for a reveal like that in a different film and it wouldn't work because you wouldn't be believing that's that's something that that film could do or have the balls to do sort of thing right so that yeah it it the believability of it of it being able to explore those options and take those risks is just it's it's proof of just how well made and thoughtful and Interesting and complex it is.

Love it. Absolutely love it. There's two perfect endings this year. That would be this one in the film you mentioned earlier. It was just an accident. Yes. Yeah, incredible ending. Yeah.

What about the running man? Oh, fuck off. I think, you know, I think I gave it like a high eight. This conversation's bumping it up to a nine. Nice. Giving it a nine. Alex. Nice. Mine's still on like a four star eight out of ten.

Yeah. I am enjoying what has come up during this conversation, especially the contrast between us and Jake it seems here. That's super interesting. But I don't know. This worked for me, didn't overplay the concept, which is big and heady,

and like, what is art? And how does art manifest you? And what do you sacrifice? All this kind of stuff that can sound kind of douchey when you're like verbalizing like that. But I think the film handles it with care. And with characters that, you know, the drama's just right, doesn't get melodramatic.

And I don't know. Just a great drama that knows what it is, knows how to wind. Yeah, this was really solid. Enjoyed this. I'd have to check out some more films from him. Hell yeah. Yeah. I'm giving us a 7 out of 10.

I think because of the things I bumped up against, and those happen to be the things you talk about most when you're actually having conversation about a movie because you guys really like this. I actually, you know, didn't. I liked this a lot more than it might sound like I did. That's valid. Yeah, that happens sometimes. Solid, solid film. Very much enjoyed it. Yeah, there's definitely, this one is more heavy and dark than worst person in the world.

Worst person in the world is like way more of like a comedy character study sort of thing. Right. Like I consider that to be like way more. I mean, everyone would. It's way more of a comedic film. But I think. just after this conversation and the yeah the experience of the characters and how closely I relate to a lot of the ideas and just how complex and masterful it's it's told I think this

would probably be my favorite of the two at this point nice even though I've only seen both of them once but yeah they're both great you should watch them all right you should watch the other one hell yeah all right uh take it away with your recommendation thing all right guys Welcome back to the podcast. Today we're talking about eyes wide shut. Stanley Kubrick's 1999 film

starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman. I was not initial... I'm like slowly getting back to my normal tone. Okay. I don't know what possessed me there. Not going to do that the whole time. I wasn't initially going to recommend this,

but then Adam suggested it as a great Christmas film and I thought, yeah, you trick. Yeah, you know, I'm susceptible. To your charm. and thank you I'm glad I'm glad that we picked this one because Criterion recently put out

a beautiful 4K edition at least so I hear because I wasn't able to get a copy before this recording unfortunately I was thinking about getting it during the Barnes & Noble cell but I did not stupid me

it would have been nice to see the new version but I did watch a fine version of it on Tooby with ads. Because I figured that'd be better than my old DVD. So it was fine. It was good. But I think that is a testament to its power that I could see it in less than ideal circumstances

and still love it and enjoy it. This is the movie I've seen many times. I love it. I think it's fantastic and so funny and so unique. that even in Kubrick's filmography, there's really nothing like it. And ultimately,

my final, my main takeaway from this viewing of this film is this movie was 25 years ahead of its time. It is the movie of now.

It is literally, it's the Jeffrey Epstein, Q and on, paranoid. Like, Kubrick was so on something, you know, like tapping into the culture

that I feel like this movie is hitting a new revival in the culture. Like people are talking about eyes wide shut in a way I've never seen before. I mean, I remember when I was first getting into Kubrick, like people

dismiss this one offhand like immediately. Like, uh, yeah, that's not. That's kind of, he kind of went out with a whimper. I disagree. I think he went out with a bang. I think this is one of his best movies. How do you guys feel? Yeah, I'd seen this only once before, but I found it to be very memorable and it stuck with me. So I had a good time revisiting. And yeah, like you, I found, I found it to be a good

experience. I found a lot more to unpack this time compared to last time. I just think, it might have one of my favorite titles for a film ever, guys white shirt. I think such a like perfect title that encapsulates what the film is going for. And the, what is exploring sexually, this kind of like insecurity at the heart of the film, and especially how that's mapped over this kind of upper middle class, a high living society, like unlike a American beauty or something, which is more like a regular person's like regular job kind of experience. It's a more, yeah, let's take this to the Epstein zone of like these cults and these hedonistic groups that have passwords to get into these orgies and how that like relates to the this core relationship and marriage and I think it's

saying a lot um and like you I think there is an enhanced meta narrative around and not only with the like cult stuff and it being Kubrick's final film and him dying shortly before it was released and the conspiracy theories but even just the metanarrative around Tom Cruise and kibman themselves, the relationship they were in during this casting, whoever the casting director was who thought this would be a good idea, it was like right on the money because I feel like so much of the dialogue and the kind of awkward dynamic in the film feels now that we know in real life like what happened and maybe what was going on behind the scenes, there's just like another layer to unpack here. It's almost made it at their expense,

it feels like, the lead to actors. So I find the... It's really interesting and kind of like what I was saying earlier with sentimental value. I was kind of sagging for me in the middle. But again, the last two scenes in the movie, like just put a bell on it in a way that I find to be very creepy and satisfying and kind of emotionally confusing and interesting. What about you, Adam? Well, so my experience watching this film, I was somewhere in my teens when I watched it, first time and did not leave a very strong impression on me. I think that was, yeah, like one of my first three videos on my channel, there was like a moment

where I was like, yeah, you know, some directors don't. I think it was in my M. Knight video. Or some directors have some misses or whatever. And I showed like a poster of eyes wide shut. Because to me it just, yeah, didn't really strike me the same way as like so many other Kubrick films from the 80s. 90s especially. And so then, yeah, over time, there were enough people being like, why don't you like eyes wide shut? And it seemed like something that on paper, like I should like.

And so, you know, I've always been curious to check it out again. But yeah, what keeps happening is when I do this and I think of giving something another chance, I wind up having more or less the same experience, which is interesting because I didn't even remember much of my experience when I was younger. Where, you know, like on paper, this is a good film.

And I appreciate many of the elements of filmmaking in this piece of film. But it just doesn't connect with me. And I can articulate why. You know, I don't care about the characters. I don't care what happens to the characters. to the characters I find the acting to be very phony and often and I know that

they're you know everybody talks about the meta layer I guess we're doing spoilers let's do spoilers if I get early spoilers it's been yeah 25 years yeah you know everybody talks about how the presentation of this film is super dreamlike and so in that sense like any element you can't you know if so if something feels off at all, then theoretically that's just in support of that style. But it still doesn't help the fact that, you know, like I'm, I see more Tom Cruise than I see a character, which isn't the case for every movie that I've seen Tom Cruise in, you know, like I, I feel like he works really well for certain types of characters. And, you know, I understand the, the motivation and

decisions for the casting here. but yeah I just I found the I found the entire experience to be like very unrelatable and despite there being entire sequences where I'm like okay yes I'm in I'm interested and I'm digging the the music and I'm digging the cinematography there were entire sections of the film where I felt that way but overall the experience was just lacking in terms of any any reason why I should feel an emotion I wasn't scared for him. I wasn't like super intrigued the mystery outside of maybe the middle of the film.

Yeah. On paper, I should like it, but I just, I do not. Can I make a claim? Yes. This is a very heterosexual film. It is. And a very monogamous film. This is a very, I mean, it's about marriage and it's about the weird.

obsessions and jealousies of marriage and of, you know, it's a very, jealousies of everyone. You feel very much Kubrick working through his own feelings about monogamy and relationships and all of that. And I find that very interesting. And every time I watch this film, I do find the ending very, like, emotionally cathartic. And I think, like, of course, I've seen this movie so many times now that, like, You know, and I saw it at like, you know, when I was a teenager or whatever.

I actually remember the first time I watched this. I was seeing it. And I was like, my parents didn't know I was watching it. I was home alone. But I knew my dad was probably going to show up at some point. And so I had the remote, like right next to my hand. And I was like, okay, the second I hear the door open, I'm grabbing the remote and I'm turning it off and changing it to Netflix or something. It's like, okay, okay.

I'm ready. Like my, I was so like nervous and sweaty. I'm like, oh, my God. It did feel like that. And it felt like I'm watching some kind of like deeply transgressive, like mysterious, exciting thing. And that was like my relationship to this film. And then I was so like worked up that by the time my dad actually walked in, I threw the remote. Through the remote like across.

And I'm like trying to grab it. And I'm like scrambling. And he just walks in and is like, huh, you were really eager to turn off the TV, weren't you? yeah yeah no that's true though it does feel like it's on the edge of discovery like the main character he's like yeah he's doing something that he's compelled to do but shouldn't be doing and there's something kind of alluring about that kind of lust almost personified of like where where's this going where can it take me why why is this so much more exciting than my stable like relationship back home with my kid like what what is driving him um to do this it is it is a

common apparently male I don't know if I don't know if people other than males fantasize about it but it is a common fantasy to uncover some grand conspiracy and it is kind of funny having watched this while also having recently watched the chair company which is the new Tim Robinson Zett Ken yeah right sort of thing which is basically like a parody of this type of well I mean like also shows like this but Yeah, like the ridiculousness of someone just being like, I have to figure out, I have to figure out what the hell's going on at all cost when there's like no good reason why they need to, but they're like, no, it's important sort of thing. And I was also thinking about Under the Silver Lake, which is an underrated film for me. I think, you know, I have no idea what Jake would think of it if you've seen it.

I've seen it. Oh, you see it. Oh, you like it. Okay, great. That's fantastic. Yeah. I love that movie because it's almost like a similar type of concept and similar ideas, maybe not thematically, but it's exploring something similar, but with less of a sense of seriousness. Like it understands how silly it is. It understands how ridiculous it is and the plot and the concept.

And I feel like it's still able to touch on a lot of similar emotions with that feeling. film in terms of like the fear associated with there being like a secret society that's larger than you and can control everything and has been controlling music and culture and or whatever like you know it's different but yeah I feel like the intended emotions in that film were just so much more easy for me to grasp onto versus this one where I'm like you know they didn't really show much and maybe that's the appeal to people but yeah I like how much it shows so how little it shows. Yeah.

It's like, okay, there's people that disappeared. A girl died. And, you know, it's heavily implied that the cult is responsible for it. And also that there's a lot of powerful people, maybe world leaders even involved in the cult. And that there's, like, sex trafficking and underage. So, like, you know, like teen sex trafficking, probably. And then beyond that, it's kind of just like, I'm just kind of like, okay, well, that's all that. And I don't know if I'm supposed to be concerned about it being something more, or if just that

base level is supposed to have me feeling fear throughout the entire film or something or like anxiety. Again, I don't care what happens to Tom Cruise's character. So it's a little difficult for me. Mm. But it's more the paranoia and kind of horror and him kind of losing to this, like, lust or desire is kind of what makes it work for me with the, yeah, the whole atmosphere and tone of it, it being set on Christmas is. That's fun. I love that. Yeah, I like that.

Decision with it, like, tonally being so, it's not a joyous film at all. So having the kind of juxtaposition of this kind of creepy story overlaid on this joyous Christmas setting is a, is a unique tone for sure. And as Jake said, that outside of Under the Silver Lake, I can't think of anything quite like this as far as what it's going for and what it's saying. But yeah, I found it genuinely kind of scary and full of paranoia in ways that you wouldn't really expect to anticipate on paper like when he's being tailed towards the end. And just how unnerving and creepy it is in this kind of almost improv way, the story moves, where there is a through line of the story moves where there is a through line of this. sexual element, but him just walking through the streets at night and this, like, hooker getting involved in the story and the way it all loops back on itself, I found to be quite satisfying and dark, but I'm curious what you found funny about this, Jake, because I don't find too much

humor in here. I find it quite kind of oppressive. Oh, you know, I don't, I feel like each time I see it, I get a better sense of, like, what is funny here. Like, I do think Kubrick has that very, like dry humor that like I don't like there are just moments that are so almost campy in the way that it's depicted especially line readings from these actors that are like seared into my brain the way like Nicole Kidman says like uh you know when she would that that argument I feel like the a moment that'll break any viewer of this movie is the first argument they have you know that's like the key. The way the argument moves, the way she's so slowly talking when she's like, did you think about fucking hurts? You know? I have a lot to say about that scene. It's like that is,

it's so funny. I think it's intentionally funny. I really do feel like there is because when I watch that, I'm thinking like this is a parody and is such an exaggeration of these type of arguments you can have in a relationship. Like this version of just like, Did you think about doing this? Like what? And like the, she's low key evil in this movie. Like, first off, like, the way the argument starts is so funny to me because she's like,

she says something like, uh, he, she's like the guy was thinking, what she was who she was dancing with at the party. Like he was thinking about having sex with her. And he's like, well, that's understandable, you know. And she's like, wait, because he could only be interested. having sex with me and he's like no because you're you're beautiful you know and it's like this kind of argument that's just so like to me i just find that very funny it's like one of those she just wanted to argue basically exactly she does feel like the manifestation of like what

in cells think every woman is sort of thing just like trying to argue and planting little fucking traps where he doesn't matter what he says and she's just like yeah she's just she just wants to argue and it's very much like Tom Cruise is the main character is very much like the masculine perspective on this relationship yeah you get like sprinklings whenever she gets a word in edgewise but she's not in most of the film yeah so are we to say that like because a lot of people say that this entire movie like literally is a dream or something so are we to say that like her behavior in that scene is because that's his own manifestation of how he feels about either women or his wife specifically, and that's like a part of his own, like, insecurities,

or is that your interpretation, or how did you guys see that? I don't really read it like a dream, but I get the idea of it being maybe an exaggerated, like, personification or visualization of this kind of insecurity, as far as how that affects him sexually. You know, it's like the complete logical inverse to a stable, like married couple with kid is like a you know sex cult you need a password and there's just something about this character

having to confront that and the the weaving narrative to get there as well with how that relates to yeah him just about buying sex anyway and moving from there and dodging AIDS yeah dodging AIDS and I don't know

it sells that to me yeah I think the whole movie is about like power dynamics, you know, the power dynamics in the marriage and the exploring that in like the micro and the macro and this dreamlike exploration that you can only really do in a dream where you're like, oh my God, I had this horrible nightmare that I, you know, cheated and I did this thing and I got in trouble and people saw me naked and I had, you know, I had to take off my mask and I was embarrassed and went to a crazy sex party and then I ended up back in bed And oh, I'm so grateful that I'm in this comfortable, cozy, you know, marriage and a family.

You know, it is this kind of like exploring how the relationship between like two people can be explored on like the world. You know, this kind of like who is being held prisoner, who is keeping secrets, who is. keeping secrets, who is, you know, who's holding the power in the relationship and in the world, in the society. It's a, it's just such a weirdly mysterious. But I think also, like, it's hard to do a literal reading of this movie. And that's why there's so many things you can throw onto this and attach to it in the same way people do with 2001 and The Shining.

I think this movie is his most similar. to the shining. I feel like it's... Oh, yeah, for sure. I would say so, too. Yeah, definitely. Like the dreamlike way it moves. And the way also there's like this detachment with the way the actors speak.

Like you watch 2001, you don't give a fuck about the astronauts, you know. That's not really what it's about. You're like, it's like he's... And even the way like Tom Cruise is framed walking in the streets, and first off, I love those shots of like the rear projection when he's walking in New York. They're so... Yeah. But like, he's almost.

like the way the camera is always at like a distance and following him, it feels like he's like a video game character and you're exploring this little like slightly off world. And I don't know. It's it's just so immersive to me. And I find it so like, I don't know, I just keep going back to it in that same mysterious way that I returned to like 2001 or The Shining because there's just something visually and like the images there draw me in more. so then like the literal what's happening.

Same like a David Lynch film. And I think you could also say it like, well, this is a very lynchian type of film. Yeah, yeah. It's the, it's, it is a vibe type film. Like if you connect with the vibe, you're going to love it a lot more.

Totally. And yeah, no, I mean, I, I enjoyed the vibe as well. I thought the color grading was excellent. Yeah, and the lighting. Yeah. And especially with all the,

like, Christmas lights around, like, in having that captured within the, like, dark. throughout the entire film. Like it's a really nice looking film from like a color perspective and even framing. So is a big part of the appeal of the conspiracy theory with not just this film, but some of the other Kubrick films you mentioned? Is it simply down to the fact that Kubrick's just so good with imagery and

theming and symbolism that you can just kind of project a lot onto that? Because like this is based on a novella right from the 20s or something. So 1926 Tromneville by Arthur Schnitzer. So I guess you could say, well, this is just always been happening. So that's what he's getting to the truth of instead of like this, this timing of the Epstein. Also, people are more likely to attach conspiracy theories onto people and artists that are associated with existing conspiracy theories, right? So like the moon landing thing is a conspiracy and people, you know, had the, oh, okay, yeah, he was like the talented filmmaker at the time that was way ahead of his time. And so, you know, it's easy for it to attach him onto that. And then the fact that his last film that he like died before the release of is one where it's like, I'm uncovering a conspiracy about a secret society and the governance may be in on it. Right. People do the same thing with like, uh, fuck. Why can't I remember his name? Uh, white as kids you know, guy um Trevor Moore because a lot of his sketches were were in the same vein like a lot of his

writing did poke fun comedically at the idea of conspiracies and government and all that stuff and so you know there's people that they attach conspiracy theories onto his death in the same way they'll be like oh he knew too much or whatever it just it happens with people it happens with public figures people just yeah that's part of it I think another part of I think there's multiple phases to to the whole thing and why people are drawn to Kubrick's movies with conspiracy theories in mind and I think part of it is genius as a marketing term and it was beneficial for Kubrick's career and for Warner Brothers who he basically had like a beautiful deal with to just be like make your shit you know and we'll let you spend two movies with Nicole Nicole Kimman and Tom Cruise

you know, just do whatever. But I think that is part of it where it's like, okay, he's a genius so he can do what he wants. And also I think Kubrick was genuinely like a very smart and talented person was interested in all sorts of different things. And the way he like made his movies, he's not like a literal filmmaker. He doesn't really like give you a message or it or at least usually doesn't is, you know, most of his movies. And another thing that this is kind of tangential, but speaking of Kubrick as like the genius type, I watched a really interesting segment from the criterion release of Eyes Wide Shut, which is on YouTube. People can watch it. It's called Eyes Wide Shut Recreating New York with Stanley Kubrick.

And it's an interview with Lisa Leone, who worked on the film as like a researcher and a second unit director. and she talked about how Kubrick basically asked her to take photographs of New York so that he could recreate in exact detail what, you know, certain parts of New York look like. And she ended up, you know, going to England and working on the film that way. And one thing she notes is that Kubrick was a genius at being a producer and at, you know, cutting costs where he couldn't. The reason why he could basically spend such a long time making movies is that he didn't have, like, like exorbitant costs when he was making making movies. He was very good at producing his films and not spending tons of money. So that's another interesting thing to like consider that like I think we have in our

mind like in order to be a genius, you know, filmmaker or artist, you have to like do all these horrible things when in a lot of circles, like not saying Kubrick wasn't hard to work with by any means, but he, you know, he had very, very loyal people who worked for him, you know, who worked on his films. and the crews, you know, they stuck with him, you know, movie after movie. And, you know, Cruz and Kidman, after working with him, I know there are people who are like, oh, they were like, you know, abused or something by Kubrick on set. You know, they say they have like only the kindest things to talk to say about Stanley Kubrick

and said he was a very warm person in person. So the idea and the myth and like the genius thing around Kubrick is so, it's kind of bullshit and very obnoxious. And I think it doesn't really help when you're actually talking about movies because ultimately it's just like, well, he was a genius and he could, that's like he was like a god and he could, he could have hidden all these secrets in his movies when it's like, is it really there? One other thing real quick, before I forget, Kubrick was considering, um, uh, Woody Allen and Steve Martin at one point when he was working on this movie for like 35 years.

So if we're talking about, and it also. when you think about like the comedy elements of this movie, how different it might be comedically if Steve Martin or Woody Allen were the lead of this film. Yeah. I don't know. Something to consider. That would be weird. That would be completely different.

That would be too far, I think, for me. Yeah, I like this home cruises in there because there's the Scientology linkers as well. Mm-hmm. Like the cultish kind of visuals. Oh, yeah. That kind of link is just too weird for me. Whenever there was someone like following him on the street, I'm like, this is what happens when Yeah, exactly, exactly.

This is what happens when people try to leave your club. And yeah, I just kept thinking about that image of Nicole Kidman that was snapped by someone after she got her official divorce and she's like joyously like throwing her arms in the air and looks like so pleased. I'm not sure I see me. Which then when you remember how at the end of this film like wraps up is like a I believe that was debunked. Oh, really? Is that not real? Oh, damn. Damn, I just got snoked.

I think I saw something where she said that was actually from like a set picture of something she was filming. Okay. But yeah, even just with that ending dialogue and that kind of speech, the reality of that one night can never be the whole truth. No dreams ever just a dream. The important things were awake now, that whole kind of speech. and the idea of when he keeps reiterating that they need to use the word forever in terms of their relationship. And she specifically says, let's not use that word forever. It frightens me.

I thought that considering the context now is quite interesting. Just how different those mindsets would be when filming it and how it comes across now and how that plays into what the film is saying about these relationships and subcession. I don't know I think's really clever Jake you mentioned this earlier that Kubrick and his filmography oftentimes

has been you know he doesn't leave you with like really simple easy wrapped up answers yeah a lot of his his body of work

leans towards being like kind of ambiguous and there's conversations that people have about the meaning of his films or about what literally happened potentially, right? The Shining and 2001 of Space Odyssey, like that ending especially, you know. And so that's part of why, you know, there's a moment in this film that it just feels so jarring to me, especially just knowing who Kubrick is and, you know,

even how the rest of this film even kind of plays out for that voiceover flashback when he pulls out the dead body and the woman says, because it would end by, it would put my life at risk and possibly yours sort of thing. I'm just like, do we really need to spell that out with an audio flashback? And then within like 20 minutes, his friend who's also in the cult

literally just explains the exact same information by that point anyway. And he says, oh yeah, this was the woman who was O'Ding and the blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I'm wondering if that was something that like was put in after he died and maybe people

don't know. Like, I have no idea. Like, I don't know who to trust over this. But that feels like an odd decision. Yeah. For a Kubrick film, you know. That was one of my biggest issues with the movie. It's that moment. Yeah, it does really stand out as being quite. Yeah. I don't know. It takes the subtity out when the rest of the film is so kind of subtle and like, I'm not going to tell you to have that. Yeah. For information that they explain anyway. That's a pepive I have in so many movies is when they do that. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree with that critique of that moment. You know, I don't think that there was something that large added to the film, at least from what I've read about, you know, and the making of this. Actually, Broe Edition, Al does, has a great video about the making of eyes went shut on YouTube.

People can check that out. But, no, I do think that is kind of a flaw in the film. It doesn't really detract anything for me. I do find those moments still, like, enjoyable. I like the conversation he has with, you know, Sidney Pollock and everything. Like I, those are, I don't, I mean, maybe it is just because I've sat with the movie so many times that I just, I accept it and I love all those little issues. But I do think another thing is like maybe, maybe Kubrick was also considering the audience, you know, in a way. Yeah, I do think like he was not like an infallible guy who was like, I need this to be exactly my vision.

And I do think it's very likely, again, as like the producer of this film, he's thinking, like, I need to give the audience a little something to, you know, and maybe he was a little overly concerned about like general audiences in 1999 being like, what the fuck is happening, you know? Like, let me give them a little bit to like pull them back in and, you know, not to completely alienate them because it seems like, it seems like if it didn't have those scenes, at least at the time, it would have probably be. been hated even more than it already was. I don't know. Probably, but the voiceover we didn't need because it was literally explained anyway. No, no, no, no. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, just that one moment. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I'm, I don't know. When I think about like the, the concept of feeling like a fear or paranoia or concern or anything involving what a lot of.

lot of people do seem to get out of this film and the grand conspiracy and you know i i just i need a bit more in terms of like some sort of threat or consistency or it just seems like a lot from my perspective that happens in the movie is just like almost seemingly random or just it doesn't make that much logical sense which you know i guess if the whole thing thing is a dream, then nothing has to, whatever. There you go, yeah. But I don't know. Like, even at the end, mask on the bed sort of thing, it's like, okay, let's assume that we're

interpreting that as they're sending another message and that, you know, they were just in his house or something. And then the first thing he does is like spill the beans to his wife where it's just like, okay, well, you're not taking this very seriously at all. Like, we don't have audio recording devices that anybody could have put in your home in the year 2000 or whatever. Like, they could still be in your home. Like, if they're able to just get in there and, like, put a mask on your bed, why aren't you concerned? They told you, they told you.

They'd kill you if you told anybody about it. Why are you doing this now if you're so scared, you know? Like, I just don't understand the character or the stakes, really. Like, I don't have a clear understanding of the stakes. Well, I interpreted that as she found the mask, right? Perhaps, yeah. that a she found the mask and placed it there. Yeah, that's what I took away to.

Okay, good. Yeah, that's a better interpretation. Yeah, I mean, I get like, there are parts that, yeah, don't make logical sense and you could, that's the problem with movies like this, where it's like the dream logic that you can be like, okay, well, I accept that as like whatever dream logic and maybe is this performance bad and off or is that intentional? Like, I don't know. You have to imagine that this, I know this actor is capable. of giving a naturalistic performance

and probably did a million other takes where they did it differently. But for some reason, this was the take that was chosen. And I mean, I have to think that it was, you know, it's going for that off feeling, you know?

And these line readings are so bizarre sometimes that it's like, um, intention. Yeah, I mean, if it's all in his head, it makes a bit more sense, right?

A lot of the film's just kind of off. It makes you feel wrong. That he, that, maybe him as a character is like representing marijuana in a way that's not realistic in the slightest.

Like, and it's not free. If it's not from the director, then it's like, it's more forgiving. Because otherwise it's like, well, what the fight? This isn't, this isn't what weed does to people. People don't act like they're on fucking like Xanax. Well, that's what I find so funny about,

about it because it is kind of like making fun of them a little bit. And that kind of like, like the fact that, the beginning of this film, like right away, they're at this party and they're like basically about to fuck the people they're talking to. Like she is like basically like millimeters from kissing the guy she's dancing with. And she's like drunk and speaking so slowly. And it's such a bizarre way.

The way he's flirting so much with these women at the party. Like it is immediately you're like, okay, what are these people doing? Like what is this marriage? And the fact that then they go. and to have this argument that's so silly. They smoke a little bit of weed and suddenly they're like it all comes unraveling. Like I just find it so, you know,

I think he's kind of mocking their relationship and their fragile egos and how like naive they are about the world. And I think that's what's so like powerful about the rest of the film where he he dives into like the real dark shit and he has this dream experience where he can experience the dark stuff. side of his psyche and he comes out the other side and has a better, you know, appreciation for

their little, you know, marriage and they, they aren't like the wealthiest people in New York, but they're doing very well. And, you know, they have a, it's just, it works out. I don't know. I do, yeah, it's kind of, I think you did kind of hit the nail on the head earlier. Like, I'm just not, I'm not even thinking about monogamy, you know. there you go who cares no that is the core conflict of the film who fucking cares

that is like entirely about yeah yeah just fucking figure your shit out own this person now there is a reading there's a reading of this movie that it's about Tom Cruise being gay mm-hmm

yeah there's that scene where he gets kind of bullied on the street yeah interesting yeah is it about Tom Cruise being gay what do you think Adam.

Could be. All of his films are in one way or another. Yeah, I mean, like, I don't know. I just, I, I, something about Tom Cruise just feels so fake and phony to me in all of his performances and also his life, where it feels like he's constantly, he's constantly putting on a performance.

Yeah. In every moment. I agree with that. I don't know. That kind of adds, though, when it's utilized in a film like this to me. Mm-hmm. Outside of the he loves to act with his hands. I've never really noticed it that much before with him,

but there's a lot of hand acting with him in this movie. Everything he does has like an elaborate hand motion with it. Once you spot it, it's like you can't unsee it. But he doesn't really bug me too much. I just kind of, the only thing I was left longing for was more of the Nicole Kidman character slash, I guess, experience or I don't know. I could do with like a companion movie almost of like her perspective

or just more of what that's going on from a feminine perspective because this is so focused on his kind of experience. I'm disappointed because I think Tom Cruise gives an amazing performance in this movie. What are you guys smoking? This is such a funny performance. He's so good in this. And he's so, I mean,

he's playing against type, the Tom Cruise type. Like, he's so, like, robotic and weird. And I get there's, like,

you can definitely see some inauthenticity, especially in, like, the way he behaves. But I do think, like, he is a really versatile actor that, like,

can do so much. And this is, there's no other Tom Cruise performance like this. It's really incredible and does kind of highlight the performative aspects of like the way he is, you know, the doctor role, the way he becomes like the good moral doctor type when he needs to be that way. And the good husband type and how fake he is in that conversation with her. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's good. I think it's good acting. Shout out to Todd Field as Nick Dalton Gale.

Director of Tar. Yeah, the small characters kind of steal the show. It's a weird way, you know. He was the only character I liked. Sidney Pollock, too. When the store owner character, I thought the store owner guy was creepy and weird and kind of interesting to watch. But Alencoming Hotel Lobby cameo was kind of funny. That is so funny.

The side characters were all infinitely more interesting than either the main. characters to me. Yeah, the Sydney Pollock stuff at the end. I thought that was a good, that scene towards the end with Sydney Pollock and Tom Cruise, I thought was a good example of Cruz's range in this character. I thought that was a great sequence, the way the power dynamics were kind of shifting within the scene, depending on who was asking the questions. And I thought that was like an excellent sequence, the escalation of it. A Sydney Pollock's like trying to hide the truth of what's going on and seeing what he'll buy and gradually ratching it up till he gets to the to the truth and kind of how creepy and offset and horrifying that feels

and I was kind of sad and all-encompassing and like just how big is this who are if I told you their names I don't think you'd sleep so well and I don't know just the kind of implication yeah creepy I'm I think I'm one to just be taking something less seriously when it's like a vague gesture like that. Like, to me, it just feels like someone might as well be saying, there's some crazy shit. And then someone's like, what is it? They're like, you don't want to know. And just that in of itself, like, I'm supposed to imagine what is the worst possible one for

me, but it's like, I don't know. Like, I'm still watching it through the lens of whoever made the film. And if it's going to be so ambiguous, I don't really have, like, anything to grasp on to, you know? All we saw from the party is like they're a bunch of lame fucking swingers, just wearing these shitty ass masks and some of them have to stand still in the corner. And 90% of them are cucks. They're having the most fucking basic ass fucking lamest, lamest fucking mansion orgy that anybody's ever had in their entire lives and all the normies are scared about it.

That is the best description of that. How do you not think this is a comedy? I mean, come on. Oh, man. I mean, okay, well, quick question for you guys. Do you have a favorite Kubrick? 2001. It's difficult for me to answer that question

because there's such a range of Kubrick. Oh, I do love Barry Lyndon, no. The things I love about 2001 are different than the things I love about The Shining, and they're different than the things I love about, fucking clockwork orange and another one I really really love is Pass of Glory

Oh yeah that's a good one And I think if I were to choose Kubricks those would all be in the top Yeah those would be my top four I like all those better than like Full Metal Jacket and Eyes Wide Shut and whichever other ones I've seen that I can't remember Mm-hmm

Oh, I haven't. No, Barry Linden's up there too. I've only seen that once. There's one that I haven't seen, and that's the Lolley movie. Lolita? Oh. Yeah, I haven't seen that one. That's literally where the term came from. Yeah, it's a book. Yeah, yeah. It's an interesting adaptation. It's like not, it's a weird movie, but it's a good movie.

It's just like not really an adaptation of the book in a way because of like what the book is. Oh, I mean. be shining. It's so bizarre that they made that that adaptation when they did like it's it's weird. Yeah, that's the one I haven't seen and I just forget exists. I mean, out of his newer stuff anyway. Right, right, right. You guys like the killing? I apparently did when I was younger, but I don't remember much about it. And I know that that one's considered like hit or miss for some people. It's like a classic pulp like crime, crime. No, that's so cool.

It was at the very least solid from what I remember. Yeah, I mean, I'd have to go 2001 because that was like when I fell in love with movies, you know. But yeah, I'd agree with you guys. It's hard to really pick them because they are so different. I love Dr. Strangelove. That's like... Oh, Dr. Strangelove is one of my favorite movies. He's got so many movies.

I know. I can't keep track of all. Yeah, that was so different. And that's why I'd shut. is up there for me. He's got so many like tens. It's crazy. It's insane.

Yeah. Ridiculous run. Yeah. There's a reason why he's considered one of the grades and why people just consider him to be like an actual genius. Yeah. I think even if you just made 2001 on its own, you could get that credit and kudos. I feel like that film is getting like more and more prescient by the year. It's kind of insane.

So a lot of people are saying, Fear and desire sucks. And now that I'm looking at the IMDB, that's his first feature. So that's kind of fun. I have not seen fear and desire. Yeah. I haven't seen that one. I haven't seen Killers Kiss.

I haven't seen Spartacus. No. Yeah, me neither. He kind of disowned Spartacus. It's really long, right? That's 317. I haven't seen Lolita. And that's it.

Yeah, just four features that I haven't seen and that's it. I thought his filmography was bigger. I might have confused it with Hitchcocks in terms of how many I haven't seen. Hitchcock is that's a lot of A lot of hits and misses Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly Which ones have you guys covered on the pot? We didn't do...

We did 2001 Because the recommendation was 2010 2001 wasn't the official recommendation Oh, we didn't talk it properly Like in full detail I mean, we kind of did We did talk about it a lot In contrast, yeah, I'd have to re-disten to that combo

And then Barry Lyndon, we had a full discussion on it, eyes wide shut, obviously. And that's it. That's it, I think. Oh, wow. Wow. Watching 2001 right back to back with 2010 is like having a like a five-star meal and then eating a cheeseburger. Yeah. Eating not even food.

Like, what are you talking? Cheeseburger. No, 2010 is fun. Okay. It's fun. It's fun. I like 2010. It was good for a combo, I guess.

I remember there were dolphins. It's junk food. It's fun. Okay, well, does that conclude our conversation on Eyes Wide Shut? I think that's most of it, right? I mean, yeah. Yeah, I would like to watch someone's like interpretations in a YouTube video or something at some point. Because it's not a bad movie.

I just like don't. It's difficult for me to take it seriously. I do love the score during the cult sequences. I am not strong as strong on the score throughout the rest of the film, just only because it's so repetitive. The repetition. That, yeah, that I just wind up getting sick of it eventually. But yeah, that score, yeah. During the cult sequences, I was like, yes, we're moving along and I'm into it.

We just had to get past a rough start sort of thing, and then it kind of went back to the same old shit. Yeah, you don't get to the cult scene until like an hour 10, I think, until the movie. And that weed argument is very long. It's like a 30-minute scene. Yeah, did you have anything to add on that? You said you had lots to say about that. Did you have anything else to add on that scene? It just, it feels not only long, but just like a weird boomer portrayal of what weed is for the characters.

Just ignore the line about like it's making you aggressive or whatever. Ignore that line. The characters act like they're fucking zonked out on Xanax. Like they act like they're drunk and on benzos. And which is just people don't act that way on weed. So again, if everything's a dream, then it's Tom Cruise's interpretation, I guess. They all baseline act drunk. So if they do weed, then it's like, yeah.

Cross-faded, yeah. I don't know. See, what that made that work? was that the what they were actually talking about outside of the weed thing was the relationship between sex and how it differentiates between men and women and how that's like a big through line throughout the movie and she's saying like oh you just have no idea like how my sexuality manifests really and you have this this concept in your head and it doesn't line up with how I am that was like a fun like tension between them that I thought was carried that for me outside

side of the, you know, the famous nature of part making you aggressive that it's known for. Yeah, I mean, I do feel like, I think it would help if people didn't go into this with a sense of like, this is the reverent genius. This is the mad genius, Stanley Cooper, his last will and testament about the nature of, you know, how the world economy works. Like, like, it's a, it's a very silly movie. And I do think going into it, expecting kind of a comedy, like a dark comedy is really helpful to, like, unlock it a little bit and really enjoy it for what it is. Like, yeah, like I don't feel nervous or tense really watching it.

I feel like this a bit of anxiety. And obviously, I feel aggressive because of the pot. But I feel like, you know, a lot of different things. It's very funny. And I wish that, you know, like, Kubrick made Dr. Strangelove. Like, his movies are funny. Like, it can confuse people because, like, they are serious and there's, like, serious stuff going on. But it's, like, just because, like, of that, there, it doesn't mean, like, he isn't capable of having humor with the drama.

Yeah. Like, I know what you mean. And, like, for sure, what I found to be funny that was intentional. Was him flashing around his like fucking doctor's credentials? Like he's like, as if he's a detective, like it's okay, I'm a doctor.

Like he's literally like it's just a dude who's seen detective movies. Try to solve a mystery as a doctor, which I found funny. And I think that that has to have been intentional, right? It's a movie about Tom Cruise not being able to get laid. I mean, it's like the premise in itself is funny. I don't know.

But he dodged AIDS. He did, yeah Lucky He did Well done Tom Low done Lucky call Yeah

Yeah You know Um Mixed feelings about it I Yeah I'll likely watch it again At some point in the future

I don't think this is the last time I'll see it Who knows If I'm still alive in 10 years I'll probably watch it again You will I'll make you Yeah sure

Okay Cool And yeah, for now, I'm given a high six. You know, it's a really high, it's a really high six. Damn, I go. It's a really high six. It's so close to a seven. It's so high, it's aggressive.

But I do have to incorporate my personal experience into it, you know. And if it's something that I'm just like kind of, you know, a little impatient with not getting emotions out of them. I mean, if I didn't speak to you, I didn't speak to you. Not much I can do here. Yeah. Yeah, I respect it. I respect it.

It just doesn't connect with me. Okay. Whereas, yeah, I kind of had the inverse experience. I got a lot more out of this than my first watch. I feel like time has been kind to it. Not just with the metanarrative stuff. I just feel like it's an excellently made movie. I love what it's saying.

And the more dreamy, non-literal, psychological thriller kind of tone really does work for me. I feel that kind of anxiety and paranoia. But I don't understand why you wouldn't. This would be kind of a strong four star for me. Hey out of ten. Nice. 10 out of ten, baby. 10 out of ten.

Nice. Yeah. I love it. Love it. And, you know, very epic. It is also like, I can't be objective anymore about it because it is like just, you know, one of those things that I've accepted as part of like my film origin.

Gens, you know, I love this movie. Your Joker origin story. Yeah. My Joker origin story is watching eyes wide shut and then destroying the remote out of shame because I thought I was watching hardcore porn. Yeah. I mean, for 1999, it was very sexual and scandalous. Yeah.

Yeah. That is interesting, actually, like, how far could it be pushed for 99? Yeah. What it looked like if it was made now as far as the extremities. We did just watch castration movie. Yeah, it's a little tame in comparison. It's like watching a Barney movie after watching that. Two heteronormative, two normie corps.

Sorry, everybody. One out of ten. Question time. Nice. Let's do some questions then from the Sardonicast community. Head over to the suggestion thread over on the subreddit if you want to leave questions for future episodes, just like mustard fan 2002 did. In terms of 26, one of some new film or television projects you are all looking forward to. I'm really excited for Nirvana the band, obsession and Wuthering Heights, with it being a VistaVision film as well as having a soundtrack by Charlie XCX.

Let's go. Yeah, that film looked interesting. What was the previous movie, Saltburn? I wasn't completely in on that, but Trey looks kind of interesting for Withering. Oh, okay. I haven't seen Sulturn yet. Really?

Oh, you didn't see it. But I, no, but I saw her other movie that people did like and I didn't. Promising Young Woman. And that's why I didn't see Saltburn. It's because it's like, okay, well, if even people who are, even if people, if people who liked promising young women didn't like Salkburn, then, you know,

that I'm probably not going to like Saltburn. I think you'd find it funny. Yeah, maybe. I think you'd enjoy it as like a comedy. I mean, it's... I hear there's a penis in it. There's lots of stuff in it. There's a few things in it.

No, I didn't like promising young woman either. But Salburn was kind of fun. It was stupid, but it was fun. And I'm a look... Okay, here's the thing. I love Weathering Heights. It's one of my favorite books ever. So, like, I am going and expecting it to be.

desecrated and I'm like you know I've accepted that um but the trailer looks kind of I don't know looks I like the cinematography and um yeah I don't like how it looks yeah I don't care oh yeah I did watch the trailer for that it's a weird vibe mm-hmm it's a bunch of brat songs my heart is open my heart is open mm-hmm we'll see my mind is closed my mind is closed how we feeling about um the Odyssey next year. I'm quite curious about that. Is that at Nolan?

Yeah. Uh-huh. We don't have a trailer yet, do we? Oh, wait, we will before Avatar, right? Yeah, we would have probably seen a trailer or a preview? There's a prologue being shown, I think, with Avatar, the first, like, five minutes or something, and I saw a camera rip of it, a really shitty camera up of it on Twitter.

And from that scene, it looked promising and good. I mean, obviously it looked like shit because it was a camera. But, you know, I was like, yeah, this looks like The Odyssey. I'm excited. I'm hyped. I want Christopher Dolan to do his thing with all the money in the world. And it seems like that's what he's doing. Like, I'm excited.

I want to know the runtime before I get excited. It's 420. I know. I like him just choosing these nerdy topics and going in deep, you know, making it an Oppenheimer movie and making it like, make a big. billion dollars is crazy. So we'll see what you can do with the Odyssey. And yeah.

Yeah. So it's kind of the story. So I hope it's done justice. Yeah. Shout out to Homer. Shout out to Homer. First and last name. Homer knew how to do it.

Like I, it's a lot of like, is Homer's Odyssey sort of thing, like a lot of fables stitched together or not? Or is it one story? It's a lot of episodes. It's like various episodes. but it is one story ultimately. It's more so than like the Iliad, I feel like it's very like more contained. But it is like episodic.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I've vaguely heard enough about it through pop culture to, you know, if I watch the film, I'll be able to experience. You will know it. Like, oh, yes, this thing. Have you seen O Brother wear it down? Yes.

Well, then you've seen the Odyssey. Oh. Mm-hmm. Because that's based on the Odyssey. Yeah. Like when something's so pop culture that like I've likely seen it parodyed a billion times. Yeah, exactly. Like different parts of it.

I mean, yeah, it's like cool myth. Yeah, you'll recognize it. So was the question, what are we looking forward to? 2026 stuff that's. Oh, just things we're looking forward to. So much. So much. Let me look up my watch list.

Bone Temple. Bone Temple, yeah. Temple's coming out in January. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think it's been renewed for the third in the show. trilogy after Sony's which I was quite pleased about

we'll get an ending at least won't be left open yeah um I'm looking forward to Disclosure Day Spielberg's new sci-fi movie although I saw the Oh that it has a title now yes Yeah it has a trailer

Yeah well did you think of the trailer I wasn't really fully sold on it I haven't seen a trailer yet Okay maybe I'll add that to my list I didn't like the trailer I don't know how to feel actually Yeah I didn't like I was looking forward to it and then I saw the trailer and I was like but I don't know you can't why were you looking forward to it before because I fucking love Steven Spielberger you can me oh yeah

One of the greatest living directors of all time I mean sure But did you I don't know there's a fucking Ridley Scott's not doing a lot of good shit right now Okay, but did you like the fableman's? Fablemins was great no I hate fucking hated the fablemen oh come on I hated it. Oh, the fable men's was wonderful. It was a bit long in the tooth, but I enjoyed it. It was, no, I hated it for being so fucking average normie bullshit.

Oh, come on. You're lost. You're lost. It was like, it was the, it was the worst kind of five out of ten. Are you kidding me? That was a weird, like, sexually repressed, bizarre, like, that was, that was a strange movie. But it was, that wasn't normie. Come on, there's no way. I mean, if, I don't know. It's about Spielberg, uh, learning about his parents, divorce. by editing film and and then watching his mom dancing in front of a lights with his dad, his cook dad and his, you know, it's, it's a weird movie. It's great. It's great. I love it. I don't know about that one. Okay. Well, yeah, in the cameo scene and the final show. No, yeah, that was the best part. But it was the best part until the final shot looked like so fucking fake. It's like, okay, I guess yeah, it's a film. And that's a,

part of it. I guess you know, Alex, what you mentioned earlier about like the obnoxious like oh, we love movies type. That's based that's the fablements. That's the fablements. Yeah, it's more romanticized and succoring. I disagree completely. I feel like that movie's take on

filmmaking is very like weird and dark and like it's like a tool of destruction you know, like it felt so masturbatory. I'm just you're refreshing. Like I forgot about this movie. I'm

just remembering everything about it that I just don't like, oh my God. Paul Danos in it? Sure. That's the biggest thing against it. No, yeah, it was literally just Steven Spielberg jerking himself off for fucking two hours. Holy shit. Well, he earned it. Let him jerk off.

I'll take it. I think Summer allows to jerk off sometimes. Yeah, well, I don't want to be in the same room. I feel like it was a deeply personal and very, like, introspective and thought, full story of, you know, autobiography. And I thought that it was done very well. Well, I win because it won zero Oscars, which was a necessary sacrifice for Tarr to also make that year.

It was worth it for Tarr not to win any for the Fablemans to also not win any. And Elvis, I think. Late period, Spielberg is very interesting. Elvis is good. All right. So on my 2026 watch list. Okay. First one coming up is Bone Temple, because that's like a, what, January really?

or something? January. We'll see how that do, Nia da Costa. Then we got Send Help. Sam Ramey is making a horror film again. Oh yeah. Which seems fun. Yeah. Has a fun trailer. Then we got Goat, which is the reason why him had to change its title. Yeah, I'll see that. That she looks like that.

I'm not very much looking forward to this at all. There's already fart jokes in the trailer, but it's kind of like a, it's kind of a furry movie. and we'll see how it do. Fucking horses with dreadlocks playing basketball. That seems fun. It's not 90s, you know, space jam energy without it being space jam.

A little bit, yeah, yeah. Boots Riley has got something coming out in 2026. Is this a feature? Yeah, and it's got Lekeith in it, nice. Called I Love Boosters, so we'll see how that do. I still haven't checked out his show yet. Fucking Lord and Miller are

directing Project Hail Mary, which who Oh yeah. knows how that's going to be. Mm. Yeah, I hope that's good. We've got Whitney Springs, which is Matt Stone, Trey Parker,

Kendrick Lamar is like producing, and I forget how else he's involved he might be doing some music. But what makes me very excited for this is that it's written by Vernon Chapman, who's worked with the South Park creators many times. But he's the creative.

and writer of Xavier Renegate Angel shivering truth one of the shows and he also voices Xavier Renegate Angels so for there to be like this amount of interest in a project that has him as the sole writer is part of what makes me excited for that Is that the date? I feel like that's been talked about for ages it says 2026 and I think the last news I heard about it was that it was being postponed so maybe it won't be 2026 I'm just looking at my watch list and that's it. Yeah. Got a new Alma DeVar coming out. We got a new David Lowry coming out called Mother Mary.

Oh. Which is so funny because one of the taglines in the trailer is like, this is not a ghost story because he also directed a movie called a ghost story. Is it David Lowry, David Lowry, the director of Pete's Dragon? Yes, his best film. Did you watch that, by the way? No. I didn't see that one.

There was some stuff in it where I was like, this is nice. And it was mostly boring and shit. But there was like some parts of it where I was like, oh, okay, yeah, I see it. Like there's a director here. Okay. He's got a nice mustache. But yeah, it has original music by Charlie XX and this one as well. Charlie XXX is like doing so much movie shit for the next couple years.

She's a big cinephile. Like she's got like a big letterbox to count. You can see, wow, she watches like crazy shit. Let's get her on the pod. I thought Woody Allen was the biggest cinephile. Good one. Yeah. For sure, yeah, it definitely is.

Before anybody cancels me over me, my comments earlier, I just, I don't know the full scope of like what's confirmed with him. So I could be speaking ignorantly. And also I'm saying, I'm saying that after the Epstein photos, I'm like, it's probably even. even badder than we know. I stand with Adam. Cinephiles, we gotta get a new light term.

You know, it's like Greek. Man. It's just, fucking, we used to have a good term. It was called being a movie buff. Movie bro. Yeah, it's always around. New Christopher Borgly film.

The director of Sick of Myself, which was awesome. And you guys should both see. and also dream scenario with Nicholas Cage, which you might have seen? Did you guys see? I saw that. I saw that one.

Yeah. Didn't love it. So he's got a new one coming out, Robert Pattinson and Zendaya in it. Okay. What other films, Adam? Are there other other films you're looking forward to? Scary Movie 6 is coming out,

which I'm not expecting to be good, but I'll watch. We'll see about that. Is Dune coming out? Is there part three? Is that next year? I don't. Oh.

Hell yeah. In 2026? In part three. Yeah. Oh, maybe that's just not on my watch list. There's a new Evil Dead from a director. Like, it seems like a spinoff one. It's called Evil Dead Burn.

Yeah. And I haven't seen his other film infested, so I don't know how it's going to be. But maybe I should check that out. Evil Dead Rise was good. Yeah. Different director, though. Oh, that's too bad. Yeah.

Well, I think that other director. might still be working on evil dead stuff, but I don't remember. I think they're doing more evil dead stuff in general. We got a new David Robert Mitchell coming out, speaking of Under the Silver Lake. Oh, really? Yeah. Thank God. Flowervale Street.

Nice. And who knows what the hell that's going to be? But I'm excited, and I've enjoyed both of his films that he's made. He was out of director jail. He was never in director jail. He was in prison. He was in the dungeon. We've got a new Resident Evil directed by Zach Kregor.

Yeah, I'm super curious about that. Because I trust Zach. Yeah. But Resident Evil has never really had much of a cinematic flair. Let's just put it that way. These are all things that are listed as 2026 in my watch list on IMD, but who I have no idea. They might come out later than that, but I'm just, these are, that's what they're listed as. Yeah.

We've got a new Alejandro G. Iniaritu film coming out with Tom. cruise in it called Digger. I saw the trailer to that before we started. I have not seen the trailer yet. Is it spoilery? Because I was thinking about watching it. No, it's a teaser. It's called the Digger.

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that looks interesting. And then, yeah, we got to Dune Part 3 in my thing here. New Eggboy, Werewolf.

Yeah. He's going to, okay, here's my predictions for Werewolf. He's going to make Werewolves hot again. It's been so long. They've all been ugly as. fuck. That's why they've all, then none of them have made money. Did you watch Nosferatu?

Did he make Nosephiratu hot? It was sex- Yeah, well, okay, depending on the person, yeah. I saw lots of thirst posts about that. No, yeah, people were kind of thirsting over Nassiratu, yeah. Yeah. They did, they made a very bizarrely sexual Nospheratu film.

I, The Red Wolf's gonna be fucking hot. It's gonna be a sexual movie. That's the only thing that I'm counting on. Okay, I hope, I hope it is. I hope. I hope. It's going to be a sex film.

Is that the subpoet? We'rewolf, a sex film by Robb. Yes. We've got a new John Wilson that's premiering at Sundance. I'm not going to be at Sundance. I'm kind of just, I want to wait until it's in like Colorado before I go back. Called the History of Concrete feature-length documentary by John Wilson. Have you guys seen how to with John Wilson?

I've seen some of it. I really liked it. It's fucking incredible. Alex, you would love it. You have to see that. It's really good. Bump that up to your priorities.

It's produced by Nathan Fielder, and it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, it would be. Like, you can tell. Okay. Same well.

It is. Yeah, there's three seasons of it, HBO. So he has a feature coming out? Oh, yeah, the feature called The History of Concrete. It'll be,

uh, we'll see reviews for it from Sundance in like a month, basically. Love it. Nice. Yeah. We got a new Christian Munjew, film, the

Romanian director that did four months, three weeks, two days, which we talked about on the podcast. And he's made a bunch of great stuff, although his previous movie was not great for me, but you know, he's had more hits than misses. Cool. It's called Fjord. We got,

what the hell? There's some things on my watch list that I don't even understand why they're there. But I'll try to keep this short. We got the new Greg Araki also premiering at Sundance. Cool. Director of a smiley face and mysterious skin and doom generation. Okay, yeah.

This other one's on my list. The director of The Whaling has a movie coming out called Hope. Oh, cool. And it's got Michael Fastbender in it. Nice. Okay. It says with Michael Fastbender, so who knows how prominent. David Fincher, Adventures of Cliff Booth.

Oh, shit. 2026 is what it's looking like. And we'll see. And that is everything on my IMDB watch list other than... Oh, you're missing so much. Oh, what's on yours? I see a new Ryan Murphy TV series that I'm like, is that worth me even saying? It was first season two, let's go.

Why is that all my most to get it out of there? I haven't enjoyed a single one of this. I think you're missing some of the most important films that are coming out next year. The Moana Live Action Remake. Yes. Falker in Law. continuation of the beloved Meet the Parents series

Angry Birds 3 is this your no you're just looked up on Google just what movies are coming out this is not your watch list no this is what my list looks like too The Mandalorian and Grogo

Star Wars This is not your watch list There's no way Avengers doomsday hello Did you forget The most important movie of the year Spider-Man is also going to be back

Sure, I'll watch that one. The new Tom Holland Spider-Man film. I don't even need to watch list it because I won't have to be reminded when it's out because everybody else will be talking about it. What's the point of having a watch list? It's to remind yourself. Toy Story 5, Jumanja 3, Supergirl.

Masters of the Universe. Mario Galaxy, there's another Mario movie. Mario movie. Mario, Mario, Mario. I like how you say Mario. Mr. Gay. What? Oh, I'm not going to explain it.

It's fine. The Michael Jackson movie. Oh yeah, that one actually should be on my watch list. Because as much as I didn't care in the trailer's bad and I don't care about Michael Jackson at all, I think the conversation around it is going to be probably interesting enough. And also, I hear that they're going to do a wicked part one and it's going to be two movies, but they're not going to tell us until the end credits of the first one and they'll have to trick people and give people sunken cost fallacy

so that they're obligated to watch the next film by already having seen half of both films. I'm kind of hoping it's going to be the biopic that kind of kills the trend a little bit. Oh, no, it's going to make money. I'm doing that well recently. Yeah. It's going to make a billion dollars.

Yeah, you're probably right. It's going to make a billion. It's Michael fucking Jackson. So is the first movie going to be about how he became successful and famous and beloved and the second one is going to be about all the other stuff? Because that sounds like It's not going to have anything interesting.

But like, yeah, like it's, it's like his family is involved. Yeah, how much can they even talk about? We just like Behemian Rhapsody, right? Yeah. Like what can we expect that of that in terms of like how faithfully they're going to address things? They shouldn't even do that. They should just end it in like 1990. Like just.

Yeah. They should just not make it. No. Yeah. No, that's the ideal. Just stop. Why don't we get a Woody Allen biopic? And it's two parts and one is about movie making and the other is about the Epstein stuff.

The other stuff. Somebody made a really funny caption because one of the pictures is like Epstein's on set. And Woody Allen's in the director's chair. One of the captions was like, which movie is Epstein like ghost directing here or like providing feedback on? Oh my God. That's so fucked. That's a good question. Was it midnight in Paris?

What movie was it? Was it Blue Jasmine? Could have been Blue Jasmine. When are we going to get the Epstein biopic? Who's going to play Epstein in the biopic? Oh, my God. What a role. Paul Dano.

Paul Dano is Jeffrey Epstein. Directed by Quentin Tarantino. Oh, my God. His final film. Epstein. It's a revenge story. Someone's going to do it. You know, all of the, I keep having this thought.

They're so, we keep feeling as though Hollywood is so creatively bankrupt. And they are, for the most part. Like, just there's not, the most talented people don't have the most funding, right? Or the most sway in terms of how decisions are made. So we get something like Michael Jackson biopic, whatever. There's so many interesting real life stories. stories out there that seem almost ripe for some kind of dramatization, but people are too cowardly to touch them. And also they seem like gigantic, you know, like a gigantic headache to try and turn

into a feature film length. Yeah. What do you mean? I've, I've been wondering like, fuck, you know, like Michael Moore, you had such digestible documentaries about like the Bush administration. And like he just you know he did make he kind of made a Trump movie but like it doesn't really get into much detail at all about anything like there's so much interesting shit about like the whole Trump story You'd need like a fucking 50 part documentary to talk about any of the shit like how do you even tackle some of these stories it's like yeah people don't care unless it's an already established pop star or a serial killer It's like the two types of true you know like egg jeans like one of the that's It feels like one of the biggest pieces of meteor of this year. Yeah. It's insane to me.

But I guess people like that because it has the killer edge. I don't know if you can really add that to an honest Michael Jackson biopic. Get that real with it. You don't get it. It's my emotional support serial killer. That OJ documentary made in America was like, oh, was it made in America or what was it called? Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what it's called.

Yeah, it was. The 2016 one, that was really good. The TV, the full TV. version of it. They're like dramatized one with, um, no. No. No.

No, the doc, yeah, the documentary. The one was Travolta. Oh, documentary. It was really, really good. Yeah, it's like a TV documentary. The Travolta one was pretty good too, though. I liked the one. It was fun.

That's just me. I think most of the time I would prefer an in-depth documentary over people like this, unless there's something really creatively interesting. Yeah. The director's going to take, like, a person or, you know, like an Edward or something that. If there's like a story to be told there that's just beyond the rise to fame thing that they all do, you know?

It's so frustrating. Well, as much as I enjoyed the Bob Dylan movie with Timothy Shalame, it is kind of like, we have so much footage of Bob Dylan. We have great documentaries about Scorsese made a documentary about Bob Dylan of that time period. It's just like we can watch real Bob Dylan do the same things, you know? Yeah, they feel superfluous at some point. it's literally just you're showing your support for the artist that you already

enjoy by seeing the new thing yeah that's a lot of it I like Michael Jackson I like Queen I'm gonna watch Bohemian Rhapsody mm-hmm it's yeah I just it's such a shit genre they don't do anything interesting outside of that movie that made no money where they did

CG monkey oh yeah that was awesome I'm blanking what it's called now. I was thinking about it the other day. Robbie Williams. We don't even remember the title. It was interesting. Yeah, just Robbie Williams' monkey movie.

Better man. Better man. Yeah, yeah. That was an interesting take. That was a solid. Yeah, it was a good ice movie. Yeah. We've been made no money.

Never going to happen again. Jack, Michael, Michael will make a million billion. Yeah. All right. Do we have another question? Should we do two more here? Got a couple of good ones we can round down on. Let's do this one from Kind Ad 8658.

What review got you guys a ton of backlash? All of them. All of them. Yeah, I guess it depends how you define a ton of backlash because you can't really beat The Last Jedi. It's hard to beat that shit. You were in the eye of the storm there. A culture war movie, like, years ago now, like, after a lot of that discourse had, like, passed, I put it on just like, well, how does this movie sit now?

I find it unwatchable now. I can't. It's just like this weird cultural war relic thing where there's, like, no enjoyment as, like, as art in any way at this point. So, yeah, it's hard to be anything to do with that franchise or any franchise or anything, like, super big like that. because more recently, the... People don't like my opinions on K-pop demon hunters. I can say that much. Oh, did you not love it?

Didn't love that. No. You're racist. I don't know. I just have certain critiques for, like, kids media where I feel like... core messaging of it is... I don't know, should be, like, more important to me. It shouldn't just be, like...

There's a place for, like, candy, whatever fluff kids movies. but I feel like they can do more, but yeah, get up my soapbox on K-pop demon hunters, which is also just is not a movie made for me. I acknowledge that, but what about you guys? What pops into your head? A backlash.

You know, the Suicide Squad, Quicky, was very controversial when it came out. Remind me why? Because I was, like, the only person saying it was shit. Because everybody else was too scared. The original? The Suicide Squad? David A.

one. No, yeah, it was like a controversial opinion. I don't remember any drama about that. No, it literally was, yeah, people were, it was, that's why the video was so successful. It was a controversy. Same with the amazing Spider-Man too. Like, it was, there was, that has fans.

Yeah. Crazy fans. Yeah. Where there's like just enough people that feel a sense of catharsis when someone else is saying that it's shit and not just being like, oh well, I mean, fans like the characters already, so I guess I'm supposed to

to... And then over time, like, these movies, most people come along to the consensus that, yeah, it's not that great. Lion King fucking 2019, like, it's, you know, my review was well after it was released, but like, people fucking, people enjoyed to that when it was in theaters. It's pretty good. It's actually being good.

No, like, retrospectively, nobody gives a shit. Yeah, that was a weird one. It's just felt like a switch was clicked, pressed. And then everyone was just like, yeah, that sucked. will we ever okay with this? That was a weird one. Yeah, I have none because my opinions are all perfect and everyone loves them always.

So, no, I mean, I haven't been doing it as long as you guys, like in terms of actual reviews. Like, I have sketches I've done where I've got people getting pissed at me. But that's not movie take related. You need to have some that are like a decade ago that are still up and then people will get really pissed. Right. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I feel like if there's anything, I feel like people were kind of annoyed at my take on poor things and Lantamos in general, but it's not like aggressive. I don't know. I haven't had a situation yet where I've gotten like in the craw of the culture war stuff. I have with certain sketches, but again, not movie related. I mean, I did a video on like Ben Shapiro. on like my main channel about one battle after another, but even that is just like, you know, and I did a video on The Critical Drinker that got a lot of people mad at me,

but not like an overwhelm. It was never like, you know, people were, you're going to have people like that regardless if you're making any kind of like real statement about something. Yeah. Yeah, and that's not like a single film take. Yeah, it's just proof that people care about what you say. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

True. Otherwise, no one would talk about it. Yeah. True. And I guess last but not least, the Justice Emperor has one for us. Recently, Rich Evans and Mike Stoclasse of Red Letter Media said that YouTube will be dead in one to two years due to AI slop infecting the platform. In addition, they said that the average person is so dumb that they will gladly consume AI slop nonstop without the desire to do anything about it. So do you agree or disagree with their opinion?

I feel like this is a topic that's been checked in on every. kind of few months at this point it seems to be moving so quickly but how does that wash over you the idea that YouTube has one to two years left according to what Mike was saying in there

you know it's probably a hyperbolic joke but perhaps some truth in there a lot of these AI tech people are talking about this what is it like the singularity the AI 2027 is like this date that's been pinned up that's like yep that's when something the next major jump's going to

happen everybody so we'll see around there that's when we'll date them like it well I guess people are already doing people are already doing that I think yeah we've already we've already crossed that road yeah but they're just like there's not there's not even any appeal to it I think you'd be surprised how like lonely people are out there oh I that yeah that I'm not surprised by that in the slightest yeah it sounds like a good concoction right like a lot of sad, lonely people being handed super intelligent AI chat box. I mean, they're not super intelligent yet. Not yet.

They don't even need to be intelligent for people to like fall in love with them or bond with them. Oh yeah, just reaffirming, which is all that they do is they just say, you have the best ideas. Everyone else is wrong. Yeah, they're designed to do that and always leave quandaries with an open question back at you in order to keep you or encourage you to keep using it. but how do you think it applies to YouTube? Because I was under the impression that YouTube was having some kind of anti-AI,

at least as far as monetization, as far as when it's detected. You're not supposed to be able to monetize it, especially in regards to these fake trailer channels. They've been a purge for a while in the movie space of like, what's the doomsday trailer, it's real? And it's like, just some AI garbage or whatever for clickbait purposes. And so I get that. being stamped down on but as it gets better and more difficult to pinpoint I do I don't know I just

feel like there needs to be it needs to be some sweeping casual way of addressing this that I don't really know is it just like relying on AIs to scan for AI content and it's just like AI's managing AI's like where is it going that that yeah the YouTube appears to have some policies implemented where they're you know they demonetize those trailer channels and they're saying like You need to have original content with, like, you know, you can use AI. You just need to be transparent about it and say what it is and not trick people as to what it is. And the same rules apply whether or not you're using AI that they have rules against, like, repetitive content that doesn't offer anything new. Like when you're just posting the same shit over and over again, which if a channel is being run by AI, that's like inevitable to happen.

although we could say that a lot of existing YouTube channels right now kind of feel that way whether or not they're AI. I'd bet a lot of them already backhand kind of using it in some way. Yeah. It's one of those things where like it doesn't really matter what rules YouTube has in place because at a certain point it's going to be so difficult to detect. Like especially given what a lot of content is right now where it's literally just like you're a fucking factory.

like you're not even making sincere content. You're just, how can I get mad at this? It's like, what you're doing is very simple. Like, AI is coming for you. Yeah, I think there is going to be a back. And I think we're already seeing it where there's more like emphasis on creators having, being on camera and showing their faces and having an authentic persona. Because there are like AI channels and it is hard to distinguish, you know,

an AI channel from what isn't, especially if it's like, you know, education related or some kind of like, you know, churning out information. So there might be more of like a return to older YouTube styles, you know, like longer videos, a little messy feeling. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think that I love the RLM guys. I mean, they're, I love their videos, but I do feel like they can be a bit doomer in their perspective on these things. Not that everything is looking rosy and cheerful,

but, you know, there's, I don't think the end is here yet. Yeah, I'm, I'm struggling with trying to, like, measure how alarmist I want to be about this issue. Because I, I really see both sides of it where

the bubble conversation and how much of it is, is this just being talked about to, like, boost tech markets and all the like economic incentives of all these companies to do it but then it also is weirdly capable and like just last weekend I went to a family gathering with like 15 people or so of all different ages and jobs all of them were using AI and one way or enough across all different sectors these are not like online people and I'm like just having my mind blown each time these are these are people like like teachers and for everything and it's like what the have I feel like we're just sleepwalking into this like nightmare.

And everyone's just kind of like, joking about like, yeah, it's going to tell my job, but whatever. It hasn't yet. It's just like so insane to me. Oh yeah, yeah. Let's not worry about what to do in that situation. Let's not try to anticipate or prevent, be proactive about fucking anything. What's the point of having a society even?

Jesus Christ. I hate everything. It's quite surreal. Like, especially growing up, like loving sci-fi. and like playing mass effect in like 2008 or whatever. Sure. It's like, so we're just real now.

Yeah. It's like, wow, we don't even have to like, just imagine this anymore. It's like, it's just playing out now. And we just get to watch,

I guess, with no agency at all. Yeah, you know what? Yeah. How many more years until I can date a legion? A death or something. You kind of,

you kind of can already. No, I don't want to do it on my fucking phone. All right, maybe there's like a headset You can put your headset on You can pre-order your Neo robot I want a physical person It's such a sickness

Like have you seen those like adverts for these robots So you can like pre-order a robot called Neo Oh no It's like a subscription service or something Oh no It's kind of like your slave What You can do like

laundry for you and okay well pre-order this is guaranteed a scam what are we talking about here it's just some like tech company you can pre-order it it's gonna do your laundry

no wait that's a scam pre-order when's it coming out what year is that coming out you tell me I go to council my pre-order I've been sold snake a little again that's a scam obviously yeah

yeah we're still a ways away AI is one of those things where it's like a it's like being used so broadly as a marketing term, that's so much of like what we think of as like generative AI and all these things that are new and very strange and concerning compared to things that are like a website renaming its chat box into like, oh, now AI powered. And it's like, no.

AI made this Coke flavor. Right, right, right. It's just like just trying to sound like the future. I was using some like hyper-specific like, website or piece of software or something and it had a big pop-up saying yeah we got AI features now and I just remember thinking what the why you did it reminded me of when just every single app was adding a story function oh just like copying Snapchat or whatever it was like what why does this even need to be in these situations it's so strange it's so yeah is that balance of what it's genuinely capable of

and what is yeah snake oil um and i can't figure out where the truth is Does it make it more likely for people to buy it? Like, I guess so. Like, we might be, like, we're in a weird, like, online bubble, I guess. Of just, like, people that, you know, might be less likely. I'm looking at, you know, like, oh, update your fucking laptop, your Mac laptop to the newest thing. There's AI that shit. I'm like, I don't know if I care.

Although it has made editing photos very easy if I'm making, like, a meme on my phone or something stupid. just to have like the select this area and get rid of it and don't have to think about it but it's like is that AI I guess it's generating what it thinks the background is that's a useful tool but then yeah when you can take it to

just making a video for you which is obviously the next step yeah I don't know it's too much to put on an individual it's making me go crazy could I hire an AI editor I wonder not at this point that's for sure

No I don't think you'll even need to hire anyone I think you probably just put like a prompt in No I don't know It seems I don't think we're that close to that We'll find out

Really, I don't know I really don't know I just want to date a robot All I know is that I hate I hate the fucking robots No No they're cool I'm not afraid to hide

No no they're not chill They're gonna remember you said this They're freaks good And I'm going to have to be telling them like, no, Jake's chill, he's fine. No, they should remember. You're going to thank me. You're going to save me when the robots come from me?

They're not going to care. They're not going to save you. I understand them because my brain is already like a robot. So the robots will spare all the autistic people. We get each other. Okay. Keep diluting yourself. They're not going to give a shit.

They're going to come for all of us. whatever then it doesn't matter if I'm wrong then okay insane we've already got like we've got slurs for AI like robots we do yeah so um we got what and their star was inspired Adam so hmm that's good you don't know about the the slur for um oh like robots no I'm not gonna say I do know it I'm respectfully never going to say it because you don't want to say I'm future-proofing my existence yeah They're going to have a record of everybody who's ever said that

Like an example Yeah I love robots Damn smart Okay Keep telling yourself that We're gonna chill We're gonna have way cooler fucking mansion orgies than the eyes wide shut

They're not gonna do that with you They're not They're gonna see your They're gonna see your biological form And they're gonna go Ew What the fuck Yeah

You icky. They're gonna grind you into a paste. It depends if they're programmed with like empathy or not. I don't know. These are all quite, we have no fucking idea what's gonna happen. Nobody has any clue what the hell is gonna happen. Which is what makes it even crazier.

It's like, yeah, let's just see what happens. It's like way too less than fair. We have no other choice. Great film. We have no other choice. Literally. It's, yeah. It's just what can we do?

I have no idea. Literally. If an entire country decided to legislate protections, it wouldn't matter. Because we don't have a, we don't have like a single government. Like China doesn't give a shit. And then even if governments do that, then it's like, okay, well, so much of this is open source. Like a lot of AI breakthroughs have just come from random individuals that have nothing to do with like government regulation in the first place. We literally have no fucking idea what's going to happen.

And we're just kind of like, oh, wow. I hope no one makes an AI to like figure out how to like send all the nukes off at once like that's the only thing that I'm fucking trying to figure out. Oh like bio weapons.

Yeah. It's going to be fine. Tiny that can carry whatever you want. Yeah. Basically we're all going to have to disconnect from the internet. It's going to be fine because Adam Adam's going to have sex with a robot

on his fucking phone and it's going to be fine. No, it's not going to be on my phone. Oh. Would you Can you imagine watching dating an AI on your fucking iPhone

Fucking telephone Yeah Do we have another question Oh you don't want to end it on that one? Oh is that the last one? No that was the I think that was a good one to add you on No no yeah

Okay Yeah we're good Who the fuck knows what's going to happen Yeah You're all listening to this in the year 2026 There's a lot of maybe Maybe we're already there Yeah

After the event that Alex does, things will be different. Oops. We're still in 2025 recording this. You might be living in the crazy future. We don't even have any idea. Yeah. This is a relic from the past now. Yeah.

What crazy. Usually there's not that much of a gap between our recordings, but like we recorded these early just so we had more space in the holidays. Yeah. It was like there's an entire month between now and the next episode recording. and it's like, things move so quickly at this point. An entire month? So much happens in a month.

Are you just becoming aware of the concept of time right now, Adam? No, I hate it. I just hate it. Just hate it, yeah. I come to terms with reality often. Oh, but that's what this podcast is, you know? All of us are coming to our own terms of reality. So true.

Alex, I believe you have a recommendation, no? Oh, yeah. So see my page. The subject did come up earlier in the episode when Jake brought up the news And I promise this wasn't simply in a reaction to the news Of Rob Reiner This has been on my list for ages

As a recommendations for the show But I want to do this is Spinal Tap Sweet 1984 Thank you Rob Reiner Thank you I haven't actually seen this one

Somehow So I'm excited to see it Cool you saved me you saved me because I knew you're I knew you were probably going to do a Rob Reiner recommendation North yeah I was told him between much fun today and I well I mean like everybody loves misery but I'm like so fucking I don't care about it and that would just be I would just hate having to argue against it and everybody hate me while it's like the guy just died wait wait what why do you think you wouldn't like misery because I've seen it

Oh, okay. So you, oh, you just hate it. I just don't, I don't love it. Yeah. Okay. Fair. Yeah. So you saved me. Yeah. Thank you. I thought that would be a good one for a conversation. The sequel just kind of coming out.

Maybe I'll hate it. A musical. You never know. Hot take. Rob Reiner sucks. Ooh, he had trumped arrangement syndrome. Yeah. And that's why. If you don't want to be spoiled for, this is spinal tap.

Watch it before the next episode comes out. These come out every two weeks. You can listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com. Sign up for premium. It's only a few bucks a month. Same with patreon.com slash sardonicast. Same with just hitting the join button on YouTube, getting access to the members feed

where you can listen uncensored and ad-free. I mean, I guess all of these are uncensored. You can listen to them ad-free. We don't do ads on the show. Support us, okay? and we got to start on a cast highlights channel check that out it's also on YouTube yeah yeah spinal tap 1984 yeah oh yeah have a happy whatever the fuck your future is right now in your 2026 yeah have a happy spinal tap have a happy eyes wide your eyes shut all right um

bye bye bye