Sardonicast - Sardonicast 207: Avatar: Fire and Ash, Marty Supreme, This Is Spinal Tap

Episode Date: January 19, 2026

Listen early and ad-free at https://sardonicast.com or https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Merch: https://ymsmerch.com/products/normie-masterpiece-sticker-sheet Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sardonicast.bsky.social Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@YMS Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Jake's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ManCarryingThing Jake's movie channel: https://www.youtube.com/@womancarryingman Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/yms.bsky.social Jake's twitter: https://x.com/ManCarrying Jake's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mancarryingthing.bsky.social Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Jake's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mancarryingthing Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Timestamps: 0:00 intro 7:56 Avatar: Fire and Ash 37:55 Marty Supreme 1:12:47 This is Spinal Tap 1:44:36 Questions 2:22:36 Recommendation + outro

Three, two, one. Show me how to make thunder. There's a quote from Avatar 3. Fire and Ash. Nice, nice. You get me hyped. It's so, yeah. I'm ex-Machi and I say, why so blue?

And we've got special guests. Yeah. Jake, you there? Yeah, I'm a special guest. I'm a character actor for Marty Supreme. So Jake is relentlessly sick. Yeah, he's changed. He's so ill.

He's changed form. It sounds like a different person. I wasn't sure if we were being trolled. Yeah, I thought the same thing. I'm going through it, guys. I mean, the whole house. I mean, it turns out once your kids starts, like, going out to hanging out with all the other toddlers and doing classes and stuff, then it's game over.

And I was looking up with Nadia. I was like, how many times on average do toddlers get sick throughout the year? Forever. And I shit you not. It says six to 12 times a year. Yeah. So I might just sound like this forever on the podcast. Forever.

It's your new voice. It just gets funny. I mean, I appreciate the work ethic. But done, that sounds rough, man. You could make him a bubble boy. Nice. Yeah, that would turn out well. I think you guys are going to be steering the show.

today. That's fine. And I'm just going to be coasting along in your beautiful wake. Beautiful woke. But man, your, your, your, your, your wake is so beautiful. It's woke. I'm we approaching, um, Jake's like year anniversary. I don't know. Of being on the show, right? Oh, when's that? I swear that was like a January, it was the Mr. Beast. It's all like looping back around because there's a new, uh, Beast game season out. And that's what we talked about and stuff, you know, I feel like it's about you. The, the annual, Beast games yeah tradition

slowly becoming the hunger games like for real yeah exactly isn't season two coming out I don't know I think it's out right I saw it on my like home page somewhere I don't know I'm watched it nostalgia critic watched it oh well that's isn't he like on the channel no he's on Mr. Beast's channel right

no yeah that's why well so I was curious about that too I watched it and basically the nostalgia critic he made a vlog about how he got invited to the Beast zone and him and like a bunch of other media critics, including Dan Olson,

so it was funny to have them in the same... I saw that. ...together. And basically they just got invited there so that they could be a test audience to give feedback on season two of Beast games. Even though Nostalgia Critic didn't even see season one and didn't even...

Like him and Mr. Beast barely know who each other are. What? But yeah, they're looking for fucking feedback. That's amazing. I didn't realize that was the context. That's even funnier. That makes it very, very funny. Because it's like, you already filmed it too.

Like, what are they, if they say like, oh yeah, this whole thing was shit. What are you going to change? Just the editing. That's it. Or are you just hoping that like season three is going to be watchable? If you just, if you get the right feedback. Did Amazon say you have to do this? Yeah, what?

Was that their one stipulation? Does Doug Walker like their target demographic too? No. I guess I want ever. No, not in the slightest. Yes. Like what? Doug Walker is for like really quirky, cringe millennials.

You know? I think if Dan Olson and Doug Walker are giving input into the Beast games, I feel like IHE and YMS should be right at that table too. Yeah, honestly, I was like, why aren't I invited? And then I remembered I have a bunch of public shitting on Mr. Beast content. Yeah. So that's probably why. So does everyone. I mean, come on this part of the.

fun of it. Apparently not Dan Olson. No, he just has his Doug Walker stuff. Yeah. No, I hope he releases a video and he talks about how dystopian the experience was. I'm sure that's coming. I mean, I expect it to come. I'll be sat as the kids say. I do want to say thank you guys for one year of tolerating me. This has been lovely. Even though I sound like I'm dying, I actually, my heart is full of joy. And gratitude and love for my fellow Sards.

So thanks for having me. Nice. It's been an honor. Thank you. Thanks for being here. Yeah. Through sick and thin. Through beast and through games.

Through all the beasts and all the games. Yeah. Through all the avatars. I feel like we haven't talked in so long. I mean, we recorded so much right before the break. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's been ages. It's been over a month. So much has happened. So much has happened. I mean, Alex basically predicted the Venezuela of shit. But we can predict more, too, because everything's fucking, like, the timeline is moving so fast. I know. Like, shit's just so crazy in the news cycle.

All you have to say is like, oh, there's going to be a major event in a week. Yeah. Like, then you're going to be right. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. Yeah. I guess I'll just say, shame on you. Yeah.

Yeah, sorry everyone. Yeah. But man's up. The Golden Globes happened. Golden Globes happened. They sure, they sure happened. And nothing was of note. Did either of you watch it?

I started looking at the list. It was just like, I didn't even care. Every single year, people ask if I'm going to stream my reactions to the Golden Globes and I say, hell no. And I do a stream of other things during the Golden Globes. Yeah. And I don't watch them. What's the point? Can I flex on you guys real quick?

I have been to the Golden Globes. Nice. Wow. Yeah. I was an intern in 2019. What? Yeah. I was an intern when I was going to a community college in L.A.

And they had an internship program. And I went there. And they basically didn't have me do shit. I had to rent a tux for a day. And then I just stood around. And I was just like walking around, taking pictures of celebrities. That's funny. Yeah, yeah.

Just in case they needed you for something. Yeah, I have a picture with Bo Burnham. He's the only one I took a picture. Nice. I've met him. He's tall. He's so tall. I know.

And we're tall, so that's crazy to even think about. I know. It pissed me off. I'm like, no, I'm the tall one. Both are no. Yeah, nothing was of note. Nothing. Literally nothing.

Mark Ruffalo got asked about his pin, and he said political things that are relevant and important. But then the same thing, guy asked Bill Mar and Bill Marr said politics I don't do that that's funny I liked when Wanda Sykes accepted the stand-up comedy award on behalf of Ricky Jervase and she said that she was accepting it on behalf of God and the trans community right nice that was funny nice did Rick Rikriggur did he do something did he say some weird trans stuff yeah God oh I don't remember lots of

weird stuff. Yeah, yeah, he's horrible. I haven't paid attention to anything he's made in so long. Uh-huh. Yeah. I just keep thinking about that photo shoot he did where he's like nailed to a cross. Or no, he has the microphone and he's like the atheist. I know the exact one, yeah.

Yeah. It's like, yeah. It sends a shiver down your spine. I know. I know. It's horrible. Speaking of which. Yeah.

Avatar 3. All right. sent a shiver down your spine you're so hyped and uh there for james cameroon uh yeah so you guys were hyped for this right of course did it was it was it worth it that's a complicated question it's gonna require a complicated answer all right i think um i feel like that avatar sequel that i'm after is buried somewhere within half of way of water and half of fire and ash i think is where at the moment. I feel like they're both kind of like

10 out of 10, 6 out of tens, if you know what I'm saying. No, I don't. I like that. That makes perfect sense, actually. I find a lot about them to be quite charming, unlikable, but also just so messy

that I can't go above a certain level. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like they're kind of way of water in this movie. You can't disconnect it with the whole way. They were shot in tandem. They're kind of like one giant script, like split in half supposedly, with yeah, all of this footage from 2017 to 2020, I think they shot them both. So they're kind of joined at the hip. And it's kind of the best and worst thing about them, how like derivative of each other they are, but how, I don't know, these characters that I quite like, but man, yeah, it goes all over the place. But I,

I'm if I had to guess I'm probably the most positive on this one out of us three Um but what are your high level takes? Wow. So this was the one you liked the most? Uh, if we're discounting the out of way of water and the, the, the,

the, the, the, the, the, the, is the cleanest, the best,

um, the best script, the best main character, the most focused for sure. Um, the shortest, which does help because they are ridiculously bloated and don't have intermissions,

which I can't forgive on. either of them. Yeah. Come on, man. That's so long. James wants the film, the theater industry to perish. He's like carrying on his back. That's what he wants.

He's taking up the space of two films and only one point where you can buy concession. So if you had an intermission, people would be encouraged to keep the theater business alive in the middle of the movie. But James doesn't want that. He's an anti-theater. Avatar is keeping theaters afloat right now, honestly, throughout this holiday season. It's like Avatar and then everything else. Yeah, I mean...

No. That's why I got a show for James Cameron because he's keeping movies alive. They can be double alive if he just put in intermission. Yeah, I feel like that would be cool. I mean, I like intermissions. I had a tough ride with this movie because I really liked. The Way of Water. I genuinely thought it was like an improvement upon Avatar 1.

It brought a lot of interesting, new, weird stuff that's just like, okay, the bad guy from that movie is like now in an Avatar Pandora body and he's like crushing his own skull. Yeah, great choice. I love that. I don't even remember that. He has a son who's like, like it's the battle of the stepdad's, you know? It's like, it's so weird. Spider. And it's so personal in a way that you don't see from.

massive blockbuster filmmaking. Like it clearly is like, this is James Cameron's thing, and he's getting out his neuroses through these movies. And I appreciate that. You know, like no one else is doing it. It's really wet film. It's a wet movie. And I was looking forward to this movie

because throughout the whole press junket, they were talking about how this might be the last avatar movie. I don't know. My theory is that they're just saying that. Of course. Because they have shot stuff for the other movies, and they have planned to do that. And they know it's going to make a billion, no matter what it is.

But I think the play is like, hey, maybe it's the last one. And so I go into this movie hoping like, okay, we're going to see some evolution of things. Things are going to change in a big way. And then it was so similar to Avatar 2 in so many ways, plot beat wise, story-wise. I was just like, fuck. Like, it was enjoyable, you know, on a scene by scene basis. There's some great action. But I really expected, like, the characters to advance in more significant ways.

And it really, and I know there are some ways they advance and people who are, you know, shooting for this movie are like, no, you don't get it. It's like much more deep than you. I mean, I'm sure there are layers to it. But, but, like, on a fundamental. like character arc level, things basically end exactly where they end it in Avatar 2. Yes. And I left the theater kind of rolling my eyes because I'm like, okay, none of us are going to be watching another Avatar movie for what, 10 more years or something, if James Cameron's still alive.

And this is all you had to say for this one? And it makes sense that this movie, Avatar 2 and 3 were originally one script and they split it into 2. You know, and I do think like Alex is saying, there's so much great stuff in both of these movies that if it had been put into one film, I do think that it would be an improvement. Yeah, they really can't fucking help themselves in terms of just squeezing every dollar they can out of this. Well, we shot all this footage. Well, we had the script. You know, we might as well. It literally felt like a bunch of deleted scenes from the second movie.

It felt like supplemental material. A little bit. Before I even knew that they were filmed at the same time, because I didn't know that going into it. But watching the film, I was just, I was, I was viewing it as if I could hear the director commentary, like, on the DVD featureette talking about why the scene was cut from the second movie. I could just hear like James Cameron's voice in my head talking about like, oh yeah, it was a little too bloated. So we just, we got rid of this one and we knew it didn't communicate things the way we wanted to. That was like the entire fucking movie. for me. It's just that in my head.

Even the climax of the movie is like the same exact type of action from the second movie, but more of it. And some fire and the blue people have guns now. Yeah. I wish there was a bit more fire and ash, though, yeah. But there was a bit of fire in the second movie, right? Yeah, a little bit. I don't know. The way I felt about the way of water, which also was like insanely bloated and uneven to me was I thought the last hour was like, incredible on an action spectacle level when it becomes titanic because like this is great um

the way like the characters changed like in that scene and the so he seldanya characters like become scary and after the loss of like a child and whatnot it felt like an escalation there and like a cool this is a this is like a more interesting place to start kind of um you just had to get there to that a lot where this to me was kind of the inverse problem where yeah like what you're saying jacobat about your expectations about want to see some some big changes in a big way and I felt like I was kind of getting that for the first like hour and a half of this where I was like okay these flying merchants come in and the whole like design of that and it's like cool this is like a nice excuse to get the story moving is taking them to a different like biome basically now we can go to

the fire and ash thing and see what that's all about and then introducing like the ash clan and how dark that stuff was with these like suicide bombers and the the weird hair stuff where They're, like, torturing each other, and it's, like, really dark and interesting. If I cut off your hair, will you die? It'll be extremely painful. Yeah, that stuff was, like, pretty disturbing. Then the whole, like, I don't know how much I can spoil it, because you can't really spoil anything in this movie. Let's say spoilers just now, right now, we're doing spoiler talk.

Who cares? Who the fuck cares? Everyone's already seen it. Everyone's already seen it. Everyone's seen it. Yeah, so, like, after the Ashclan, like, attacks those flying merchants. and then it becomes the whole, I love the kind of Jake and Quarch having to work together, like the trepidacious stuff.

Like, I like these, like, these, like, action kind of cliches or whatever. I thought that was really working, was giving it, showing a different side to these characters that I was, I was into, and then going into the world-building stuff with what they were doing with Spider,

who I thought was a big negative in the second movie, as far as, he didn't really have, like, an angle to me. He just kind of stood out as, like, a weak link. as a character. He didn't feel like he was adding much. And yeah, more than anything. That actor almost has like an unfair gig with like being the main human character that's interacting with the big nine-foot aliens. So you really needed someone who could sell that, you know? A young Leo or something could pull that off, but this guy, I don't know if you

have what it takes, but at least on the page on a storytelling level, I kind of liked how they they changed the mcuffin from the whale goo previously from the unobtainium whatever into now the main mcuffin being a human character a character that's been established that works and is more interesting to me and kind of raise the stakes in a way that's like this is cool because yeah you mentioned the the dueling dad kind of dynamic and having the mcuffin be the the the child stuck in the middle of that it's like that's a cool that's a cool nugget there i want to see where that goes but then it just yeah it just devolves into being way of war again for the second half like almost as soon as the whale like mating event stuff and it

just becomes way of water again I was really disappointed by that because I felt like yeah the new villain with the Ashclan stuff was really adding another element I found interesting as like oh where's this going to go is this going to like pull Quarach in a different direction and explore someone else but it doesn't maybe that's what the next two movies are going to be about but it just feels like the movie just kind of presses pause at some point it's like you don't really get a conclusion or as you said like arcs to any of these major characters it does feel more static from that point which was a shame for me because yeah it makes a lot of way of water kind of redundant to me it's like we've got like an even bigger action scene now and it's the same

thing again but now there's a million whales and a million squids flying around it's like okay um i guess this really is just like a we're just going to make the same movie again and again A cynical souless cash grab made for money and no other reason. I didn't feel like that to me. No, I don't know. It feels like there's too much weird stuff still in here and personal stuff. Like Jake almost killing a spider, you know. That was hilarious.

Yeah. Like that's crazy. Like you wouldn't. The one like putting the gun to his head. That was crazy. It's like you obviously, you obviously weren't going to do it because that's the main character killing a child. But then they added the fucking stabbing sound effect as if he stabbed something. And then I was like, okay, did someone get shot like with an arrow or something? Like what's what's the reveal?

And the reveal is, oh, he just stabbed the air and it made a sound for some reason because we're manipulative and we like tricking. That was pretty bad. That was so stupid. That pissed me on. Yeah, Corny. That was a bit of a stranger thing sound effect issue. Awful. Genuinely awful. True. Yeah. I mean, but I, you know what I mean? Like there are those moments that are still feel personal. Like clearly James Cameron is like obsessed with nature and with like, you know, his own unique philosophy of whatever. You know, like this is, this is his thing. It's great. Um, but the moment where it fully lost me because the whole movie is sequences of people getting captured and then escaping getting captured. Yeah, no, forever. The standoff

perpetually. Over and over, it's Jake fighting solely or Jake fighting Quorage, Jake fighting Quorage, and and then teaming up and then fighting and teaming up and finding until finally at the very end, they're like floating on these big rocks in like a random space. Like that's one element of the action that I didn't love that it just felt kind of generic. Like, oh, we're just floating on a bunch of rocks in the sky. And there's a giant beam in the sky. It felt very marvel. Sorry, James Cameron, but it did.

Oh, no. And then the moment, like Quarich literally has a, well, that just happened. Like literally after they're dangling from the rocks and like he has his son and they all get up on the rocks and you're like, okay, one of these fuckers has to die. You know, something has to happen. And Quartz just goes, well, this is awkward. Like, what the fuck? What the fuck? Are you kidding me?

We're doing a Marvel quiff? I kind of like that line. Like, what the fuck? Then he just like, yeah, and then he just presses pull. He's like, bye. See you next time. He just jumps and it's like, okay, well, we don't see him die. Yeah, no.

No one's ever really gone in these films. Death doesn't even matter. No, it just annoyed me. I was like, we needed some change to this dynamic between the Quarich and Jake and Spider thing. Like, we needed a definitive. He should have stabbed Spider in the head and then had him go, I'm still alive for some reason.

I think Spider should have joined with Quorich and been like, yeah, I'm a human, like, whatever. I mean, I did like Quirch becoming more of a Navi. like his whole thing when he shows up to the meeting with the general and he's like all in the full paint of like the ash clan and he's like what's up what's going on guys and she's like yeah fuck is going on with you dude like what navvy pussy does to a motherfucker yeah he's like he's the guy that like falls for the goth girl i know i thought that dynamic was awesome i like that a lot of funny and weird yeah it's very it's it's it's it's I'm just I'm so sick of this fucking franchise

I get like nothing out of it Like oh yeah the dude has a The villain that's been the same villain for all three movies for some reason Now he has a baddie GF And that's different come on that's cool That is cool come on What about it? It's kind of like a meat head like enjoyment here

She's like the only one in their entire fucking clan that doesn't look like an ork Because James Cameron is like no you need to have a bad EGF because that's his fetish other than water. James Cameron's fetish his water and mean Navi and doing drugs, you know, he clearly has, you know. That drug sequence was cool. I like that. No, it wasn't. Yeah.

It was fun. It was so lame. Oh, come on. There's simple pleasure. There's pleasure to be found in these films. I really enjoy it. Yeah, simple pleasure. is the way to put it.

It is all very simple. Yeah, they're like experiential movies. They're just like trying to put you in an environment. And the environment's like the best part. And yeah, I get where Adam's coming from. Like, for me what bugs me is more that this is James Cameron's ninth movie. So now third of his filmography is Avatar. And it's going to be more weighted towards Avatar.

Because nine movies isn't much for like how long he's been working. So like, yeah, there is something like, man, what have we lost by this taking so long and how unambitious the stories have been? Because it would have been nice if, like, he'd been a bit more ambitious with the stories post-Avital 1 and kind of just use this world as a backdrop or a setting, you know, something like this, but it seems like they're stuck in this catch-22 of the budgets need to be so high in order of them to get made that I don't know if the fear of getting like too complex is like putting them off from doing anything with the stories.

So they just kind of like keep them a certain level of simple and keep them of a certain level of like this has to be the same and can't get too nuts with it. I don't know. It would be self-imposed if that were the case because James Cameron is not getting any notes. He's allowed to do whatever he wants.

But he does want it to be a mega success there right. I don't know if he wants to like jeopardize that in any way. Well, it's been paying off. It doesn't matter what's in the movie. It'll be successful. It doesn't matter what you put in the movie. it's Avatar you can do whatever he wants

just put the word Avatar on the title like you've got it you got a billion dollars congratulations I think there's an expectation of high quality I mean I think that's what avatar sells you know and that's why people see it if this movie had like high quality of what of the experience of the spectacle

you know you're going into the theater and you're experiencing something you can only experience in the theater you know you get your 3D and you watch it and people aren't really rewatching these much, you know, on Disney Plus or whatever, I imagine, you know. So it's like every few years you go and you have an experience in a theater that's unique to that.

And that's what theaters are about. And it's like Avatar is selling that and then certain big ticket, you know, spectacles are selling that. Sure. Marvel isn't even selling that anymore because you can watch Marvel on Disney Plus, you know, and watch this show. What I'm trying to get at is like, okay, what's the scenario of like him being experimental that he's too afraid to do at this moment that wouldn't include the reasons why people watch

this movie like things that would not allow the film to be like a spectacle what do you mean right there's nothing there's no reason why this can't be a good movie there's no reason why he can't have a good story and still make money at the same time he's choosing not to yeah and that's my biggest issue with it no i think that he made the movie he wanted to make i think that you know for I feel like it doesn't work in a lot of ways I feel like it's flawed But I do feel like people are generally satisfied with this film You know, and they're having an enjoyable time

So I I don't buy that this is like The story of him telling like a passion project story When he literally just stretched out a story into two movies Like that's like the Hobbit shit You know like this this was money Sure there's there's his own personality in it Sure there are things

his hyper fixations are littered throughout the film. But like, in terms of like, oh yeah, I really needed to like get this off my chest. This is the story I needed to tell. I don't buy that. I don't buy that. Maybe it's somewhere within these two movies, whittled down, but not as they are. I think that's what the issue is, is that that story's going to be in there, but it's not going to be two movies. It's not going to be three movies.

It's going to be like five movies. And we're watching like the extended, extended editions. first time instead of a more succinct thing would then the option to opt in on Disney Plus and watch the extended versions or whatever, which I'd prefer if the story could be a bit more consistent overall, but I don't know, I can also still see the appeal of like this world and the action and whatnot.

You guys just have to wait until 2046 when Avatar 5 comes out, you know, and it all come together and it all make perfect sense. Just trust, have faith, you know, it's all going to work out. Don't worry. Was this supposed to be the seed bearer? Because I remember that was supposed to be the name of one of them. Yeah. When the Navi fly back to Earth and they have cyberpunk battles with Mecca Trump, you know,

and they plant seeds in Earth. And AWA sprouts on Earth. And it's like Wally, it's going to be so fucking cool. You guys, and Adam, you're going to be like, you're going to be crying. You're going to be like, oh, I was so wrong. I hate my words. I'll be crying. Yeah.

I watched this in D-box What is that? The seat was moving Yeah, I've never been to D-books Right I felt like if there was going to be any film That I'd do it with It would be this one

What is that? And I made the right choice Because it was nice having something Like, you know, kind of shake me awake Every five minutes Was it the high frame rate? It was high frame rate Which I found to be so fucking stupid again

And I realized as I was recording my review for this, I realized that the same thing happened with the second movie and I just forgot about it until now, where I watched the film and I think like, damn, this projector is really chugging along. It's not high frame rate throughout. And then I look online and find out, oh, no, James Cameron decided some scenes are 48 frames per second and some scenes are 24. And I go, okay, weird.

Maybe people don't notice that, but it was so distracting for me. Yeah, I had a weird experience with that where learning my lessons. from Way of Water where I just couldn't get on with that frame rate thing. I really did not like it as an experience. Actually, for this one, I seeked out the, like, worst theater I knew, knowing that it would be a consistent 24 frame rate, and it was. That's funny. I preferred that experience over.

That's hilarious. Maybe that's why you like that. The same thing happened with Way of Waterway. I genuinely couldn't really focus on it because it was funny. It's so distracting and just ripping me out of, like, any story or character that's funny happening and when I rewatch Way of Water I did the same thing

and seek down somewhere with the lower frame rate and I did prefer the experience if it's higher frame rate that's fine just have it consistent why do you have to change the frame rate so weird I didn't notice the frame rate change I don't know if it's because like you guys are gamers I don't know if that's

something that wouldn't make yeah I was waiting to be held the controller and start playing when I was wearing right right yeah I couldn't tell any difference The transition from a cutscene to the gameplay, yeah. Oh, I see. It's a gamer thing. You wouldn't understand.

Yeah. I wouldn't. I'm too much of it, or me. It's our culture. Yeah, what the fuck? This whole thing was so stupid. I hated it. You know, this is the film where as I was watching it, I learned that Sam Worthington is

Australian because I could hear his fucking Aussie action. accent. Every time I'm in the movie. It's a egregious in the original, too. I'm like, this is hundreds of millions of dollars. You couldn't do ADR for a line? Just make him Aussie at this point. When I drop my arm, you and your new girlfriend, die.

Wait, like, what the fuck? I was watching that just being like, seriously? What? That's how I learned he's Australian. I didn't even know. Maybe they should have let him, like, as he became an RV, go from the more American accent into the Aussie accent. That would have been fun. There's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a,

There's a base standard, right? As you said, Jake, people are expecting a level of quality from these. I am too, right? I'm expecting at the bare minimum, you know, do some fucking ADR. Okay. Why? Why? How can that get through so many people?

Because it's Jake. That's Jake Salie, man. Everyone loves Jake. It's Jake Solie, yeah. Because it's James Cameron and people are afraid to tell them anything, apparently. I like Jake I like him because he has my name So, you know

I think he can He can say as much Australian shit as he wants He's Okay He's my friend Yeah I don't know It just doesn't bug me

I don't know Yeah I mean neither Okay Do you guys have ratings for this film Hmm I mean yeah Yeah I go ratings I got reins.

I kind of gave it away in my opening thing. It's a three star for me. I'm going to watch it again. I'm going to be there for the next one. You called it stupid Adam, and I'm right there with you, but that's why I like it. I'm with you, Alex. I'm right on three stars, six out of ten.

I just feel like, yeah, in this six and a half hours of Avatar sequels, probably is like a really good two and a half, three hour, maybe in there somewhere. I do think it's suffering not having a central character like Jake from the first movie though where like the dynamic there I felt was a lot more I don't know a lot more like tension um the sci-fi concepts of being like a paraplegic and being having this like freedom of being put into this big alien body and that experience is just a bit more like involving than like the all

these different family dynamics which are big and broad and I guess more relatable to people but I don't know, I like having the focus of a main character. I'm getting that more from the villain at this point. Adam? Yeah, well, it's an awful, fake, phony, insincereed cash crab piece of shit. I can't believe they just tricked me into watching the second movie again, but worse. Literally felt like deleted scenes from that movie. I would have at the very least expected, like, oh, yeah, they're doing the same thing again, but it's fire.

And, you know, there was a little bit of fire, but they just did water again. camera can't fucking help himself it's fucking jerking off to the water physics the entire fucking movie two out of ten I hated this I hated this so they did need to change biome they did they did they should have no but they didn't commit to it

they just gave you a little taste of it and then ripped it away you know they should have is what I meant volcano fight you know yeah yeah exactly yeah give me a volcano fight scene let's see the ice navvie now what are we gonna see next Show us a different biome. Like have it be an excuse to showcase like technological achievements because that's that's what the second film still felt like at the end of the day.

It was like at least we're getting a good tech demo. You know, you see the corridor digital crew talking about just dissecting that shot of like the hand in the water being like how the hell do that? And it's a really interesting breakdown. Right. There's nothing like that in this movie. There's nothing like that with the fire effects. It looks like any other fire and explosion effects from any other fucking movie that you. see and the water doesn't look as good or you know like there's there's nothing

showy or spectically about the water in this film it's just like okay yeah more scenes from the second movie that's it why did we fucking watch this I'm pissed because Jake Sali well I hope that awa forgives you and that you find peace with awa had it well it looks like a big baby is what I learned watching this got a big baby face yeah yeah what's wrong with that looks fun yeah You think babies are funny? Yeah. All right.

Let's move on. I got to pee. All right. I'll be very big. Sure thing. Damn. Anyway, now Adam's gone. I can talk about how much I love Avatar,

Fire and Ash. This redefined cinema, man. All right, I'm back. Hello. Why so blue? Why so blue, Adam? Why so blue? It's because.

the navvy are blue. I did. I re-listened to a way of water Sadona cursed. Oh. And you made a funny comment about the navi.

Actually, it might have been the original avatar discussion. Saying that they're the perfect halfway point between a furry and a weep. That's the most apt way to describe the Navi.

Yeah, basically. It's appealing for everybody. It's so funny because I don't, I have so Such a vague memory of those films that like my discussions on them like I don't remember either. Which is why the frame rate thing tricked me again. It hasn't even been that long. I had to rediscover it.

I can't I can hardly even explain my affinity for these movies. But it's there. I can't lie, can't deny. It's the furry and weave combo. Exactly. Yeah. It's my weakness man. there's yeah there is something about these films that people just like and it doesn't matter what's in the movie yeah kind of yeah just like people that i know that like just don't go to the cinema they're going to see this and it's like okay like just everyone like i don't know if it's like magic or what he's doing like puts everyone under a spell everyone just wants to be in bandora yeah i mean like it's the Disney eyes kind of yeah yeah it's a similar thing realistic but I'm just kind of like

I I want to just like put a VR headset on and just like fly through and like pick up rocks and stuff like that's sure well like a document a fake documentary set in Pandora's like would be my dream um I think that could be like genuinely cool the best Disney world ride in my opinion is the avatar one where you're like flying it's like a newer one but it's yeah it's like cool See, I haven't been to Disney in so long. They didn't, Avatar wasn't even released when I was there, so I don't even know what that's like. That does sound cool. Let's do it.

I'm down. Sardonic-ass trip to Disney World. Yeah, you know, I think at one point we were actually planning on doing that way back way. And then COVID interrupted it and then we forgot about it. I'd like to do a Sardonid, a Sard Disney. I'll just leave my kid off, you know, drop it off at daycare. We'll go hang out at Disney World. Sure.

All right, we'll think about it. Marty Supreme. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The Safdi, done it again. The Safty and Bronstein. True. Don't forget the Bronstein.

Important part of that collaboration I came to learn. Yeah, that's becoming more and more apparent. Yeah. Bronstein actually directed, is it who I'm thinking of or somebody else? Let's see. Never mind. I thought, no, yeah. I was confusing it with somebody else.

So there was a bunch of hype around this movie. Tim Cham decided to hype it up. I guess this is the result of nobody watching movies and theaters. Yeah, what did that come from? Is that mostly Tim Champ? Yeah, I mean, he produced the movie. I guess so, right? Too.

Yeah. I mean, he did a good job. Yeah. It was like a meme. He might get an Oscar. This one's getting nom for sure. This will be the historic first time in history. that the Academy is forced to acknowledge the Safeties.

True. Because Sandler didn't even get a nom, right? Really? It's insane. Yeah, he didn't even get a nom. They have gotten no noms. This might also be the first Oscars where they're forced to acknowledge Chandwick Park as well. No noms for him ever.

That's wild. There's a lot of insanity at the Oscars. Yeah. That's why we're going this year and we're going to tear shit up. We're sneaking in. We're sneaking in. We're going to go nude and run across the stage. Don't tell them that.

That's a secret. We've got to come up the whole new plan now. Fuck. I guess so. Sorry. Guys, this movie was so good. I loved this movie. Yeah.

Yeah, it was excellent. It was a treat. It was excellent. A treat. What was a treat? It was a nice, tasty treat. A tasty little treat. A little stressful nightmare.

I watched it directly after Avatar 3 also. so it was even better. I was like, I'm doing a two movie day, and I ordered it the correct way. That's a funny contrast, yeah. I mean, I kind of knew. I kind of knew how I would feel. Yeah, this is a nice balance between the classic anxiety

and style heavy safety presentation, while toning it back enough to have it still be accessible to mainstream audiences, but still not lose its identity and not be like, you know, not be not weird or fine. I don't know about that. I feel like it is just as if not more stressful than uncut gems and good time. It is like I was, this is like a really intense. film way more than I expected because the people were pitching it kind of like you are at them like yeah it's like uncut gems but with like a bit of a warmer heart to it you know well it's funnier

um is it i don't know i think so i mean i think it's funny huh i guess oh that's true there are some really there's some really good jokes in this film um but i do think maybe making it like a period drama it puts a little more distancing to it whereas like uncut gems set only a few years you know set in 2012 when it came out in 2019, right? So it's like a bit more present. And Sandler is such a lovable, you know, guy. And seeing him in that role is like a lot more, like, distancing and alienating. And he's not.

Yeah. You can't, you, you cut him way less slack because he's a grown-ass adult. He's like an older man with a serious gambling problem. Whereas in this film, it's like, he's a dude who's like in his 20s trying to make it big and do great things. And I think a lot of people relate to that, you know, at a certain point in your life. And you're like, I'm going to do great things. I don't care about anything else. I'm going to be great.

And what's funny to me is that there's like online, ever since this movie came out, there's like all the puritines talking about how like, well, Marty is a bad guy. Why are we glamorizing his, his actions? And I'm like, the fuck? Like, yeah, he's a shitty guy. Like, that's kind of the point. You know, that's part of his character growth, his character arc. And I just feel very strongly about like, that's just insanely stupid reading of this film. You wonder sometimes if people have seen movies that aren't Disney properties ever before in their entire lives.

Because I think for some people, that is the case, you know. Yeah, it's a little bit of thinking. Just a little bit. Yeah, I'll read between the lines just slightly. Even though, like, I didn't even know how you could miss it. It's not like it's particularly subtle with, like, what it's saying from the title sequence alone it's like a visual metaphor of like the type film a really funny clever opening sequence too um but yeah speaking on uncut gems i

yeah that is a bit more anxiety inducing um that might be one of the most like anxious films i've seen way more like fatalistic and harsh and i kind of love it for that and i think it slightly edges itself out because of just how committed to that bit it is for me. That's not say I didn't enjoy this. I did like the whole, this narcissistic main character and his obsession with his perceived greatness and these pursuits and how that clashes against people in his life

in this super chaotic way where he's like scamming everyone he knows and is humiliating himself to get to this point. And yeah, the way it goes, the arc of his character is really satisfying. And is emphasized by, this really wonderful creative decision of this strange 80s score with the 50s setting but it just seems so kind of poignant and relevant to now and this kind of like hustle kind of attitude and yeah I'm American I'm trying to succeed and I'm going to shit on whoever I can in order to do it and it just felt like very I don't know poignant yeah I was

initially just kind of like almost weirded out by the when when I heard this score, I was like, wait, this is like not the time period. But it worked really well. It doesn't make sense. I like, yeah, that adds something. One three took point never, I don't remember how to pronounce it. The guy, the composer, he's done a lot of great work for safety projects. Yeah, and got gems too, right?

Yeah, yeah, and good time. Yeah, the original score is great and the, you know, the needle drops too. Yes. Also a great storytelling. Yeah, great editing. Like, it's just really well. well, well put together. It flows really nicely.

I'm looking at the runtime two and a half hours. It's like, I don't know, it didn't feel like that. It felt like under two hours, really. Not something where you feel the need to check the time watching it, in my opinion. It's, guys, this is, if not for one battle after another, this would be my movie of the year. It just, it hit me perfectly. Sure. I think, like, you know, the idea of, of like, this guy trying to do something,

great and succeed in that like kind of impossible feat that that is so like harming everyone in his life and also just like the story of growing up and like seeing something beyond yourself and of course I'm going to be a sucker for the ending obviously yeah the ending's going to get hell's good about to say the same thing oh like no like spoiler talk everybody for me um what happens are we doing spoilers okay so he he has his triumph in japan and I love I love love love love how that whole climax goes down because it's like, yeah, he goes there, he finally gives in, he finally begs Kevin O'Leary,

who's such a slimy asshole in himself. And in real life. He's so good at being, at being himself, yeah. He's just like, I love how on the press talking, he's like, yeah, Josh Shafty came up to me and he was like, we need an asshole for this film. And he's like, you're an asshole, come on.

The casting in this movie is so great. Anyways, I love Tyler. So he gets paddled by, Kevin O'Leary and he begs to go to Japan and he does. But while he's there doing this like fake sham of a competition with Shinso, right? I think that's his name. He learns that he actually is not allowed to go to the world championship or whatever.

He's been rejected because of his behavior, which makes total sense. And then he realized like this is my one shot to prove to myself that I'm, I can, that I'm great, that I'm the best, you know. And it's that, that's just so charming where it's like, he's willing to just throw it all away just to prove to himself that he's the best. And it's, uh, that triumph that he has is so cathartic and wonderful. But when he comes back, you know, and like his whole world is in ruins, you know, his, uh, childhood sweetheart who's pregnant with his child is like going into labor and it got

shot, you know, like this movie's insane. But he goes back and, of course, the baby is. born he says to her like I'm here for you you know I'm going to be here and then he meets his child and he that wonderful needle drop what's the song everyone wants to rule the world right yep and I'm just a sucker I mean I was crying I was like this is just because that stress and anxiety that pressure builds and built and built and I thought the end of the film he was going to discover that she died I thought Rachel would have died you know and he was going to and I think a lot that people wanted that to happen because they're like he needs to be punished for his behavior.

And it's like the fact that he's there and he's like, I want to be present with this child. Like this is my baby. Like I'm going to change. And I think a lot of people are like, well, that doesn't feel earned. And I think that's entirely the point. You know, it's not earned. You know, that's like part of life is that things get thrown at you. And it's how you react to it.

And it's just such a wonderful like depiction of that moment, that switch in his mind that he builds that catharses, that epiphany. That's like an emotional like what the fuck I finally have something bigger than myself and it's like a tragic thing I think he is sad in a way but it's also cathartic because it's no longer just about me me me me me and that's a pressure off your shoulders you know um so I I love that ending I thought it worked really well it gives it like a nice emotional complexity it didn't feel yeah it gave it like some a bit of a question mark there for me absolutely is where I was like yeah is he fully happy in this moment is this a mixture of like the overwhelm of becoming a parent as well as like maybe because he's looking he's looking through glass too there's a distance between him and his baby so there's kind of the reflective aspect going on and the look the baby gives him is just like who the fuck are you yeah yeah yeah but there is kind of some like calmic justice to the way it doesn't do like a typical sports movie thing of him you know winning the league or whatever like he gets his own

small win his micro win yeah but it's like a macro loss from like the audience's perspective like he he doesn't He doesn't achieve his goals, really, because he always picks the worst decision, and they catch up to him at that point, you know, right after being humiliated, being paddled. And yeah, there is, like, the catharsis to him winning against his person that he's, like, zoned in as his rival, even though he only lost to him once. But, yeah, it does create this kind of emotionally complex resolution that, yeah, it doesn't feel like it's hand-waving or justifying or trying to say that, like, yeah, it was all worth it in the end type thing. It felt more complex. Yeah. There was more to pick out. It's definitely not like black and white,

but it does feel like it kind of wraps things up in a nice way, kind of closes like a chapter in his life. Yeah. And it's much less dark of an ending than good time or uncut gems. Yeah. You know? Much less. Yeah.

I think that's what I think of what I think like, yeah, something that's a bit more accessible to me. mainstream audiences. I feel like the tone was generally more forgiving throughout, but especially an ending is going to dictate a lot of people's discomforts or lack thereof when watching a film. Also, I love that, you know, in a way, it's kind of a sports movie, but it's also mostly not, but it's still, you know, in the context of the sports movie type scenes, they're still really good like they're they're watchable compelling ping pong scenes oh yeah uh and that kind of brings something new because i you know never seen a ping pong movie um they exist but yeah yeah yeah yeah it's a funny

sport to choose as well yeah yeah kind of exactly just as like a visual element to what he's sacrificing for the you know nothing against ping pong but like just how it looks the paddles the something kind of small about it, these small little tables. There's visually funny about it. It's funny. Like, he's committing himself in this way to the sport. It's not quite tennis. And the people he's fucking over.

Yeah, yeah. A little mini baby tennis. Lighter, more delicate tennis. There were moments in this movie where I was laughing out loud. There were like, there's another couple in the theater where I saw it. And it was just, they were dead silent during certain lines that were just like, how the fuck did he just say this to someone who's like a concentration camera? survivor. He's like, yeah, I'm going to make him wish that he was back at Auschwitz or something

like that. Something horrible. And everyone is like gasps. Are you allowed to say that? It's like only 1950 or something, you know? Like, just the, how brash he is. Like Timothy Shalame is just, he has the perfect level of charisma to be able to be such an asshole. Yeah. That it's like he's still like a lovable tramp, you know? And you know what? It's kind of nice seeing someone with as much name and star power as him producing a film where he's playing a character that is complicated and not like a moral good guy. Because so often we see like anybody trying to be like a Hollywood celebrity type, you know, household name will be like, oh no, yeah, I'm just, I'm playing a good guy because

I have to be perceived as a good person sort of thing. And it's just like, yeah, fuck off. You know, complex characters are good. And I like that Tim Cham, you know, there's a part of him that is. definitely an artist and he sees the value in portraying complex characters. That's kind of what bothered me about the smashing machine, speaking to the safeties. Yeah. Finding the rounds of seeing it.

And it was like, well, there's kudos for the rock where it's like, hey, everyone, he's acting now. It's like... His voice is a little different. Yeah. And I especially echo what you're saying with, especially this trend of biopics, like, based on real people. And they're often just these puff pieces, you know. puff pieces, you know. Exactly.

Leave out all of the actual real story, your behemian rhapsodies or whatever it may be. Michael's coming out. But this felt like they picked someone, and I'm sure this isn't, you know, that accurate to the real person and they took creative liberties. But yeah, they found the story, they found the angle that makes it prescient now and doesn't just feel like a nostalgia, circle jerk. Yeah, just pop culture nonsense. There's like a purpose to everything.

Is this marketing itself as like a biopic? No, but Marty Mouser, I'm pretty sure, is a real person. He existed. He's like semi-based on a real person, I think. Yeah. Fictionalized, like, on the scene, the ping pong scene. I read his Wikipedia and whatnot. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Speaking of the smashing machine, though, like, it is interesting that those two films from the two brothers, the climax of those two films are about people in some sports field accepting that they are not the best or I guess in Marty Supreme's case like he he wins so he's like the best but he doesn't really like succeed in his dream whereas in the smashing machine like he the climax of the movie is him just being like yeah I'm not the best and that's fine it's an interesting thing that both of these brothers are like fixated on the idea of being the best of all you know being so great and also accepting that that's not like

life is all about. I mean, I don't know. It's a really interesting to pair these two movies together. I think Smashing Machine is kind of boring and it doesn't really work that way. Yeah, it's souring on me the more time and distance I'm having from it. There was some straight up like bad scenes in that movie, which I just didn't feel in this one. Emily Blunt running for the gun. Yeah. I feel like it's a meme now. Yeah. That was a shockingly bad scene. Yeah. Well, maybe I'll rewatch it at some point. Just reading through the Wikipedia too.

Oh, you found the Marty Wiki. Well, yeah, it says like loosely based. Yeah, yeah, I figured it wouldn't be too literal. Just inspired by not biographical. Yeah, it's like a jumping off point. Which is kind of interesting. You'd almost think like just

make a new character sort of thing. Yeah, because you must have to like pay like in a stay or something. Because that can change it too if you're making these movies based on real people. You know, and they're still alive. And that was the Bohemian Rhapsody problem, right?

It was like the whole, the surviving members of the band having all this input. And it's like, of course you're going to, you're going to, you know, you're going to poison it a certain way because obviously, like, it's based on you. And that's not supposed to be what the story is necessarily about. It's more about, yeah, what's the truth of this, what's the heart of this, what's the drama in this? The Michael Jackson biopic, like his family's involved. It's like, okay, well. So they have a polymarket bet up about if that's going to be a two-part?

Maybe or not, yeah. I don't know. There's probably a polymarket thing for everything. Yeah. There was polymarket at the Golden Globes. Oh, well, duh. That's a thing. It's on TV.

No, they were, like, they had it on the Chiron at the bottom, like, on the TV. Like, while the Globes was playing, they would have, like, predictions for who's going to win best supporting actor. Oh. That's weird. Oh, yeah. No, it's gambling is in sports. Like, they're inseparable.

Yeah. know it was in sports but it seems like over the past like 10 years it's like just infected everything every every every can go on anything you know I think any way to siphon more money out of poor people is good because you might as well just speed things up I knew you'd say that you know you're just you're just delaying the inevitable so you might as well just fucking yeah chop chop so blatant and absurd too it's like if they made uncut gems today it just be Adam Sandler sitting in his house on his phone. It's like, oh shit.

It's like a casino, but you can't leave. Yeah, true. Yeah, that's a great idea. Having a casino in your pocket at all times. Awesome, I did, dude. Yeah, what are you going to do? Yeah, no, I love the style of this film. I also just love how, like, kind of bonkers it is.

Everything that happens in it narratively is very satisfying for me. You can't really predict where it's moving either The way it kind of jumps around to these different triangles of characters But we haven't mentioned Guillao Paulo. Yeah But I really love that dynamic, that triangle between Gwena Paltrow and my husband and Martyr's very intriguing to me the way they're all kind of using each other for different things and different ways I love that

I love the stuff with the, you know, Rachel and the dog and how like Yeah the moment he discovers that it's like makeup on her eye Yeah She was faking getting the black guy after he'd already gone and, like, beaten the guy to a pulp, you know? And I'm like, is he dead? Like, I literally thought when she came back to the apartment, he was just going to be dead on the floor. Yeah, yeah.

Because I didn't, that's what's so thrilling about this movie that feels so real and like anything could happen. You know, there's like explosions. Like the scene when after they trick all the guys, you know, they get all the money, you know, hustling pool. and they go off and they're like so happy and then the guys chase them down and Marty Mouser's just like I'll just talk to them like an angry mob of like 30 guys

and like he ends up spraying gasoline all over them and they like escape and they all light up like it's there's action sequences in this movie that are like insane shootouts gunfight like it's chaotic it really it really is like having everything in there but in such like a again, it just feels very real and like

shit is just kind of happening and unfolding but in a very authentic way. And Rachel as like when she gets shot, you know, in the final shootout when they go to try to get the dog with God, what's the director's name who played the guy who had the dog? Frican. Able Ferrarra.

Abel Farah, right? He was so good in this. Yeah, he was excellent. And, you know, after that scene when she says, like, hey, did I got the money, you know, now you can go to Japan when it's like she didn't have to do any of this. He just begged Kevin O'Leary to go to Japan and she didn't even get the money. But he's just like, yeah, you did. Like, thank you so much. And I feel like that's also another step building up towards that final catharsism. Like, what am I doing with my life? You know, like she got shot. She's doing this for me so that I can go achieve my dream. Yeah, so it just it really is kind of like well plotted and I don't know if you guys are interested in hearing a contrarian view, but I did want to share. Joyce Carol Oates is big on Twitter. You guys know Joyce Carol Oates? I don't think so. I don't think so. Highly respected literary fiction writer who's been writing for ages. She's later 80s or something. She's incredibly old, but she's super. online and it's very funny.

But she was sharing, she's a great poster, just legendary poster. And she's written like a thousand books. But she was sharing her opinions on Marty Supreme. She did not like it. And I thought her opinions were very indicative of what a lot of people were complaining about this film, which I do want to give voice to that and kind of like share a critique of the film that I don't find valid, but I think it's fair. She likes uncut gems, but she did not like Marty Supreme.

So she said, understandably, many people love Marty Supreme, and I don't want to provoke them in total agreement that Shalemae's performance is great, but it's also very repetitive. We see Marty shouting, quarreling, interrupting, hyperventilating, in exactly the same way through the entire movie without the sense that, as in a complete unknown, there is emotional growth in the character. Until the very end, with the sort of abrupt transformation that would be disdained in women's romances,

the notion that manic 23-year-old Marty Mouser is going to settle down, with his immature young wife and raise a child together feels totally absurd, but Shalabay can almost make us believe this might be so. What do you guys think about that? Well, I mean, you know what's kind of, as I'm realizing right now, as you're describing it, it's almost as if we, the audience, are being manipulated by him as well. Like, we're just another character in the line of people that get screwed over by the sure.

Which is kind of interesting to think about that way. Yeah. as like a redemption or that he's necessarily going to change. We don't know that's left open to interpretation to me. Because my interpretation was that he's not necessarily going to change his entire being for this baby. I don't know if that's really entirely what it's going forward. But I can see why someone will take that away. She's not alone.

I've seen a couple other reviews saying a similar thing, especially about that ending seems to be the main sticking point, I think. Yeah. It's like whether or not the character like believes it in that moment sort of thing. I don't think the film necessarily requires like a belief that things happening after the credits are taking place, you know? Well, not only that, but once the needle drop hits, you know, everyone wants to rule the world is playing. We still hear all the screaming babies. Exactly.

Yeah. Which is a bit unerving. And, you know, it's interesting, I was listening to an interview with Josh Safdi, but he said that, you know, initially after this ending happens, after he sees his baby, there was going to be a montage of him growing old and being a father and like being a good, present father and like having a good business and everything and being normal, you know, and that was going to be the ending of the film. and I think that is while valid and would have been fine, I feel like it's much stronger leaving it with this ambiguity. Yeah, I don't know if it would have liked that. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it takes out the vagueness. I just thought that was interesting. Yeah, it does seem to be connecting a lot among awards type people also. Yeah, I think it's Tim Chams to lose at this point. I thought it was Leo had a shot, but I feel like it's, I feel like people are ready to anoint Timmy. He's fought for it. Yeah, we'll see.

I feel like this might sound crazy, but I feel like he has a career trajectory of early Tom Cruise. I don't know what that would mean. Like having some mega hits and like franchise stuff, you know, being in Top Gun, but also working with like in seeking out autours to work, you know, Like I'm thinking of the color of money, you know. Okay.

And working with Scorsese and before he became the Tom Cruise action starts earlier in his career, he's working with lots of different, you know, great filmmakers. I feel like Timothy Shalame's career could go more of a Leo direction or more in a Tom Cruise direction. You know, he's got Dune. You know, he's like a mega box office draw now. And he can also bring audiences to go see an offbeat stress drama. like this. Yeah. He's a proper celebrity.

Yeah. He is. He's a box office straw for sure. And he's, you know, more talented than The Rock, for sure. She has range.

You can play different characters. A huge range of characters, actually, when you look at his filmography. Yeah, call me by your name. Mm-hmm. He played a twink. I think that Josh and Benny should trade,

they should trade Timothy and the Rock. And then we can see who's really the better filmmaker. Oh. Josh make a movie with the rock and see how that goes. Or remake the same movie and swap the movie. Yeah. That wouldn't be a waste of anyone's time.

I mean, we can just do that with AI. Here's what I want to know, because I do feel like Josh has basically made his trilogy that are different, but similar in so many ways, especially like structurally from good time to uncut gems to Marty Supreme. Is he going to make a movie in a different register? Because I think this movie is just like, it is a step in a different direction slightly, but it is, does he have more? Is there more range there? That's what I want to know.

I wonder. I mean, like, I think based off of like what they've been making, there's clearly certain types of characters and scenarios and emotions that they enjoy. So I don't know. Like, you could still have a lot of the same safftyisms without necessarily creating that similar of a story again. Yeah. So, I mean, we'll see what happens, I guess. Is he going to make an LMAK? You know, is he going to make an interstellar?

Like, you know, there's... Right. I feel like that chaos could apply itself to many different types of stories. Oh, sure. And that anxiety, too. Yeah, that's such a big part of their movies. I'd almost like to see like a complete inverse, but they just

I'm saying they just instinctively He does it so well In this movie, I feel like Yeah, there's more There's more to play with there I'm not complaining I mean, I love these types of movies I love what he's doing

So it's not like, if he wants to keep making movies just like this, I'm all for it But I am curious Yeah, it doesn't feel like a one-trick pony Yeah Yeah, yeah Also I really enjoy The woman who plays

Rachel Odessa Odessa Asian As young I have no idea Where she's from But yeah She's been

Doing like Random horror movies I saw her in Hellraiser And she was really good Oh yeah Yeah And so yeah Now that she's in like

An actual Oscar maybe I feel like that's really cool Yeah Tyler the creator And he looks good Hell yeah Love Tyler Yeah he was great

Yeah the whole like crime element And the bathtub scene Really gilding Oh yeah. The anxiety and the sudden unexpected violence. It's like, oh, that was so good. Yeah. It's like a roller coaster.

I love a wacky moment like that that's just so not only unpredictable, but so sudden. And just like, yeah, okay, wow, I guess we're doing this. Yeah, it just doesn't, can't even take a breath. Within a second, yeah. I'm like glad I didn't go to the bathroom. True. And honestly, shout out to their little bit characters that are in it from just like one or two shots small little scenes that still

a show in like a carbon brother's kind of way that's like that's like a real dude like I've spoken to this dude I've seen this dude walking around feels like real and organic David Mamet is like it has like a cameo in this I think he's the theater director of her

of Gwyneth Paltrow's show I didn't even know it was him but I just was hearing like there's lots of different directors and random people that's just like I love seeing that in movies and it goes to show You don't need a professional actor You need someone who can just play the part

And that's like Kevin O'Leary Is like perfect in this movie Would you be great in other movies? I don't, not necessarily But he was perfect for this part Yeah, yeah I think they're doing like a casting Oscar category at some point

Yeah, I think they're doing that this year Yeah They're doing that this year I believe so Yeah, I think they're doing their cast in Okay, well then Marty should get a numb I see what they pick, yeah What would you guys

Rate this film? I give it a fucking nine I loved it Ooh Nice So it's better than Avatar Just a little bit Really strong force staff I mean

Might go up on a On a rewatch As I say But I do If I want that chaos I think I want to go For that misery Of uncut gems

Just a little bit more Yeah Of course you would Of course you would Like the like the dark shit. Yeah, 10 out of 10, guys. Not to be hyperbolic normie here, but yeah, it is my second favorite movie of the year,

right behind one battle. Very cool. At least as for now, I haven't seen a lot of movies this year. I haven't seen Haminit or lots of stuff. I mean, you have seen a lot of movies. You're saying there's a lot you haven't seen. Yes, thank you. There's a lot that I've not seen in 2025.

I'm not looking for a damn that. Yeah, me neither Well, I know what it's about I feel like it's gonna make you sad Yeah, let's just watch a two-hour movie About, you know, how your kid's dead died Yeah, that sounds funny I'm sure, it might be great

But it's like, you know, it's one of those things Just like, fuck, all right, here we go I feel like, yeah, in terms of what's Probably gonna get a nomination I feel like I'm pretty caught up I just need to watch Hamnet and Wicked for Good and then...

Good look. I don't think you gotta worry about Wicked for get. Oh, it's not getting a nom for anything? I think it's gonna get a nom annoyingly. It's gonna piss me off. Yeah,

but not for best picture, I don't think. I think it's kind of blocked out of there. That would be egregious. Yeah. Oh, my God, it's that fucking bad. It was.

It'd be nice if this year their best picture noms were like half foreign films because like, it's a really good year for that. Did you guys see, did you guys see it was just an accident? Yes.

Yeah. It's great. I want to see that still. Yeah, I loved it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Thanks to you guys, I saw no other choice. I don't think I would have otherwise.

I'm so happy. That's like my, that's my third or fourth favorite of the year. Absolutely. I think that's my favorite of the year at the moment. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. It's only great on me.

Yeah, it's awesome. I've seen it twice. I was wondering, what if we did an episode that's like, you know, maybe around the Oscars time? That's just like doing our ranking of best and worst, movies that could be fun what do you mean of the best and worst movies of the oscar noms of 2025 just like do a no I don't know could be fun we can mention what we would give yeah the Oscar two if we had the power type time yeah yeah definitely yeah we'll see what happens no promises yeah the Oscar noms will be out by the time the next episode though yeah everybody stay

yeah it's moving quick not I've been sipping on that throat coat have you guys tried that What? It's a throat goat It's like it's like Alex was saying Alex was saying he's the throat goat I'm the throat goat What? No, it's the type of tea

It's some kind of elm Um base tea that's really good for When you're recording and stuff Um Especially good when you're ill You're always drinking some strange potion I'm learning about hot toddy

You know I'm learning about the throat goat Good to remember They got many types of teas Yeah There's people over there I'm being the stereotype. They got teas for days. We just got Coca-Cola.

Root beer. Sure. All right, Alex, take it away. Right, yeah. My recommendation was, this is Spinal Tap from 1984, directed by Rob Reiner. I don't really have much to say about what's happened with him, but obviously chose it for his sudden death.

That's horrifying. I wish that didn't happen. But he's a story director with a nice amount of range. I like seeing all the different projects from him. He's done all sorts in comedy and horror and fantasy. I love to see it, but this is a, man, is it kind of like the defining comedy mockumentary that kind of like really started this as a trend?

I'd say it's really popularized it anyway. based on a fictional English rock band from the 80s. Very, what was it? It's so dry and awkward. I'm amazed it's not British. The way it's presented is so dry and believable that apparently even like Ozzy Osbourne when he watched it, he just took it like face value and it was like,

wow, this is like an incredible documentary about how, about what it's like to be in this scene. Like he just bought into it. which is absurd. It definitely connected with some sort of truth, I guess. Who said that? Ozzy Osbourne. Oh, that's funny.

When you watch this, which I think is hilarious. Yeah, so cute, nimble, mockumentary, that I somehow hadn't seen. I know the osmosis jokes from it, you know, turn it up to 11 and stuff like that. There's some of the stuff that has embodied the culture, for sure, and has stood the test of time. But, like, I don't know, a lot of older comedies,

you go back, it can maybe not hit you as intended, and I was a bit worried that that might happen, but I found this to be surprisingly funny with some standout. I actually thought Christopher Guess was the standout comedic performance for me, which we can get into as we go in, but yeah, I thought this was charming. It knew when to wrap up that, yeah, that nimble an hour and 22 minute long runtime, lots of kind of quotable, funny moments, fun scenes. It kind of had the nice balance of the improv feeling without taking it too far. Um, the sequel, Spinal Tap 2, The End Continues, came out in 2025, um, which I guess is Rob Ryan's last movie. Yeah. Unfortunately. Um, which I also checked out today. Did you guys, did you guys see that?

I opted to not watch it. Yeah, don't. Don't. Don't. I'll go into a bit more later, but, um, Oh, that's too bad. Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah, this. I had a consistently funny, enjoyable time with This Spinal Tap and was laughing as you should at Gommedy. I can't really say that about the sequel. Did you guys see this before? What is your guys kind of experience with this movie and

this kind of mockumentary format? Go ahead, Adam. Well, I've definitely seen at the very least parts of it before. I couldn't tell you if I had watched the whole thing before. You know, I was familiar enough. with the turn it up to 11 scene and a couple other you know notable gags and moments um but yeah

i mean like it's i found it to be a charming nice humorous watch but not humorous to the point of me like really laughing um it's just you know it's just positive but not like super engaged. It's a good satire. It feels like an accurate kind of poking fun at in terms of like the decade, the culture. Some of the song lyrics are pretty funny. I like the one at the end, the one that's very suss.

Yeah, the party songs are great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like the defining feature of this era of rock and roll is, you know the whole point is to have sex with 14 year olds pretty much yeah because like are you guys into like classic rock from this era your black Sabbath Sarah Smith ish zeppelin ACDC yeah I'm not like huge into it I like the odd song I was more into like I'm more into like the psychedelic kind of rock yeah yeah for sure kind of stuff um but it still spoke to me on that parody level because there is something

so large than life comical about like the way some of these bands like conducted themselves so there's a lot to make fun of and prod at and it does it in yeah quite an elegant held back way that yeah I feel like you can believe some of it um I I loved this nice I thought this was such a a funny film and I was I've seen this before but I saw it like in high school I think like I'm sure I heard some of my favorite like comedy heroes talking about like oh this is smile you always hear comedians talking about like especially of an older generation you know or you know gen Xers talking about how this is smile at all that's the greatest film ever you know it's the funniest movie ever and I saw it you know when I was a teenager

and I'm like this is fine you know there's not as many jokes as I wanted you know it's not like the lonely island you know it's not like uh right you know it was just not what I was expecting and rewatching it now after so many years I barely remembered any part of it except for the black album cover and now rewatching it I was just amazed at how clever and how dry it is it's so committed to being a realistic documentary that like you don't see this type of fidelity this type of hardline dedication to appearing authentic in a a mockumentary. Like we've seen so many much more of that today that it reminded me in many ways of the show Documentary Now. I don't know if you guys saw that with the Bill Hader and Fred Armisen.

They did a show called Documentary Now where they basically do, this is Spinal Tap, except they're parodying famous documentaries. It was like the weirdest project that like, you know, they're doing Beals of Grey Gardens. They're doing, you know, Werner Herzog like parody. Like it's so unique. But it's also similarly very dry. And it's not like a joke a minute. It's just like really trying to commit to the bit.

And that's what I loved about this movie. Like there are so many moments in this where a character would say something. And I wouldn't really react to it because they're so, they're so committed to the acting that I'm just like, okay. And then it'll take a beat. And then I go, fuck, that was really funny. Like the way they phrase it, like the moment when they're talking about like, the drummer, how the drummer keeps dying and they're talking about it. And the guys, they're talking about like the first drummer, like, yeah, was a gardening accident.

And, you know, Scotland Yard, they said that it was actually better to leave it unsolved. Like, yeah, it's just better to, let's just leave this unsolved. Well, just these weird little details, like the gum on the finger, I might need it later. And the whole framing of this past their prime rock band that like keep having their shows canceled. And it's just getting like more and more embarrassing for the. them and they can't like let go and how funny it is to like cling on to this aesthetic and how like sad it is when it's a presented this way and that yeah finding the humor in it just yeah the the lines they are yeah how straight they are played is what sells it she can hear i'm eating too much sugar on the phone

and there's the difference between feet and inches is not my problem the the wood line there's like so many great lines and they just they don't they don't play it like too silly it really is clever no and it's there, there's also like kind of like a warm heart to it in a way that surprised me. Like there are moments where it's like that are ripe for a joke. Like when Rob Reiner's sitting there and he asks them like, you know, what would you guys remember the first song you ever wrote together? And it's like you think it's going to be something silly. And they start singing in.

It's kind of like a sweet little, you know, song that they wrote together and they sing it together. And you could tell that there's like affection and love between the two guys. That's real. And that kind of keeps you hooked into the story and caring about them. Like, by the, once I was getting to the end of the film, I was like, God, I want these guys to get back together. Like, they belong together, you know, like, I was, I had a stake in the game where I wasn't just like, oh, fuck these guys, they're all assholes. They are assholes. But it's like, there's something real there that you're rooting for them, you know?

And the level of parody is so clever. Like, it's obviously mostly in the 80s, but I really liked all the 60s parodies. Yeah. Maybe even more the flower people and they're kind of corny, like, just riding off the Beatles type thing. that I thought was really, yeah, varied. And the Stonehenge thing and the Britishness of it, the tiny Stonehenge fuck up, I thought it was a really funny, like, bit,

talking about the druids and stuff like that. I like seeing that, like, in a movie, I wasn't expecting to see that actually from, it's normally when I bring up Stonehenge to, like, Americans, they don't even know what it is. Really? Yeah, yeah. That's kind of funny.

Yeah, I wish I had more to add to this conversation, but it was one of those films where I was just kind of like passively mildly content but not offended you know just like oh this is nice and that's kind of just where it ends like I don't I don't connect with it a whole lot it's nice that it exists and I do appreciate what it's doing but yeah did you have a favorite cast member like when you found funniest or No.

Most charming. Like I mentioned Chris the guest. I feel like he nailed it out of the whole cast. I really liked his strange delivery and accents too were really believable. I didn't recognize any of them. I don't think actually outside of Rob Reiner. I knew it wasn't British and isn't British in the film. But that's often like I can tell.

That's an American doing a British accent. But yeah, they did a really good job with that. Yeah, that kind of corny rock band voice. That's kind of 80s. Yeah, that really worked for me. I just, I love how pathetic it is. Like, it just gets increasingly more and more pathetic. There's playing at the U.S. Air Force Base.

And, like, I just, I love how sad it is. It's just, who's the guy who's the Air Force guy? What's his name? Fred. Fred Willard? No, Willard, yeah, the guy from Wally. It is Fred Willard. Okay, he's so, he just has like a tiny little moment in this movie,

but it's so great when he's just like, so sweet with the guys and just like, what are you, spinal? He calls them and he's like, oh, my hair is getting a little long too. They might think I'm with the band. Yeah, like Billy Crystal has a little came here too. Dana Carvey, too. He was one of the Mimes as well. Oh, no.

Angelica Houston has a tiny little role in this. Yeah, a lot of really weird, like, big names in here. But you know not to milk it. Like, that's one of the issues the second one has as it becomes like about cameos and just like milking these jokes like again and again. Oh my God. Yeah, what are you doing? But Jake, have you seen Betel's all?

I haven't, no. Okay, so I'm the only one here. Damn. Michael Michael McKean Is he in it? David St. Hubbins. Yeah, he's like the blonde name one. He's like, that's the only other thing I've seen him in, and he is incredible in that show. He's so good.

Oh, really? This is a funny contrast. I want to watch it, but I feel like I need to watch Breaking Bad first, but I've never really wanted to watch Breaking Bad. Do you think I could just watch Better Call Saul without watching Breaking Bad? Well, why don't you want to watch Breaking Bad? Yeah. I'm, I don't know. I'm not much of a meth guy. I don't know. I mean, it's not like an accurate portrayal of crystal meth.

If that's what you're wondering. It offends my sensibilities. No, I have no idea. I feel like I've seen it already because it's in memes everywhere. So I feel like I just like know the show, even though I haven't actually watched it. I think I've tried to watch it a couple times. But I, oh, you've tried to watch it. Yeah, I've seen the first like three episodes probably like a couple times because I've tried to watch it over the years.

That's interesting. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know where it is. I mean, yeah, to me, it's like a nice, you know, not, it was great when it came out, like, super engaging. I'm actually kind of maybe rewatching through it recently. I kind of put on a couple episodes when I felt like watching something that didn't feel like work. So I'm just kind of doing like a passive experience and we'll see how far I get again.

But, you know, like, there's things to, I don't know. It's fun characters. It's a nice little piece of television history, at the very least. And yeah, the characters, the character work in Better Call Saul is just next level. It's astonishingly good. I think I will check out Better Call Saul. So I should definitely see Breaking Bad first, though, before watching Better Call Saul. Alex, you'll have to answer that.

I don't know. I have a weird feeling you would like a Better Call Saul more, but it is enriched by seeing Breaking Bad. Yeah, that's what I figure. I mean, you know, I'll find the time at some point. I used to watch so much more TV. I just don't anymore now. But, yeah, I didn't know that Michael McKeon. That's super cool.

Yeah, I don't really know what else I've seen Michael McKeon and Christopher Gessian. I mean, I just, I recognize them very well. I feel like I've seen them in all sorts of, like, comedy stuff and little bit parts on TV shows and everything. but they were they were so good in this um there are so many moments that again just like stand out to me as like what what the fuck like that's so unique in particular there's a moment when the manager who's also wonderful I love the manager and he's like yelling at the guy he's okay yeah he's like yelling at the guys being like or the hotel staff he's like why don't we have rooms why don't we have rooms and he like insults one of the the hotel

managers and the hotel manager, he seemed like a real guy. It seemed like a real guy being a fit. And he's like, I'm, I'm just as God made me, sir. Yeah, that was a great interaction. It just feels like, like, that's not as particularly like a comedy moment. It's just like, they are, they allow the film to have like these authentic little beats to, to make it feel really rich and like a real world. And it makes sense why Ozzy Osbourne would be like, oh, yeah, that's a real fucking. That's a real fucking. That's a real. He's like crying. And I love the moment when the whatever record company guy is like,

none of the smell the glove albums are selling, you know, the totally black album cover and they're just sitting there in the record shop. And he's like, okay, guys, this is on me. This is my fault. I want you guys to kick my ass. I want you to kick it right now. Just so painful and awkward.

and yeah I don't know it's just something about it really connected with me that I I loved out the pathetic nature of their endeavors and what they're trying to be and and almost accepting like hey maybe it's time that we like change and we don't hang on to this old kind of like these gimmicks and everything and then at the very last second you know you're you're begging for Nigel to come back and he does and he's like hey, sex farm is big in Japan. Yeah. And we can keep the party going. No, it just is great.

There seems to be something with the 80s SNL crew that seemed to be, I don't know, just on fire. I haven't really seen any of like SNL ever, whenever I've seen like the more contemporary skits. I'm kind of just like this, I don't know, seems to be too obvious or whatever. But the links here seem to have worked out and it avoided some of the SNL kind of cliches that will tick me off, like just taking it too far or not having much subtlety, but the subtlety was really what sold me here. And having Harry Shearer in there as well,

who most probably knows Simpsons' like voice actor, Flanders and Skinner and Cam Brockman. True. That was a funny pull as well. Yeah, it's a really good cast that everyone seemed to be on the same wavelength as far as like, yeah, we know what kind of comedy we want to do here. We're not going to ruin this. Take it too far.

Get too silly with it. It's just the right level of silly. It feels, yeah, like they are, they're real rock stars. And they're kind of in that just out of touch world. And just pointing at the absurdity of it, of that level of entertainment and that level of fame, but also what that looks like when it's how it drying up. Yeah, I can see why people connect with it. I'm just

lukewarm. Because Adam, you you've seen Christopher guest directed mockumentary write best in show. Yes. Have you seen that, Jake?

I have not. No. I've never seen that one. I've never seen that one. Because that's often thrown around. You guys might enjoy it, honestly.

I'm just, it was not my thing. Yeah, I seem to remember you really not liking it. Yeah, I was surprised by not liking it.

Honestly, I was expecting to like it. Really, yeah. It's a funny concept like how does it contrast with this movie as far as a mockumentary and how realistic or not realistic or the parody angle i mean in terms of like it it's authenticity i would say spinal tap's going to be the better film but it's going for like a bit different of a style of like a mockumentary

too they're similar but like also very very different same type of humor though for the most part yeah i might enjoy it if i did uh particularly think christopher guest sold that Nigel character in a funny way. Yeah. Yeah, people do really enjoy Best in show. It's just not for me. Can I just admire some of the lyrics here? I just pulled up the lyrics to the song Big Bottom. I just want to read a second. Yeah. The bigger the cushion, the sweeter the pushin. That's what I said. The looser the waistband, the deeper the quicksand, or so I have read. My baby fits me like a flesh tuxedo. I'd like to sing her with my pink torpedo. Yeah.

It's just, and some of these, some of these songs, like, especially the final song in the movie, when it's like an emotional moment when he's finally like, okay, Nigel, come out, come play with me, you know, out on stage. And then you listen to the lyrics and you're like, what the fuck? So wrong. Yeah. Well, just the way the characters, when they're talking to each other, like, basically coping about, like, not being able to sell out aren't.

anymore and they're saying like I envy us and like now we can do all these ideas like we wish we could do you know I'm gonna I'm gonna have the London orchestra like cover it and do rock operas based on Jack the Ripper and it's so out of touch and crazy I know it's a very woke movie too you know it's like critiquing the uh the sexism of this this era and stuff and it's like describing the original album cover for yeah smell the glove I love when the other band, like, clearly the more, the better band that's like them, but just more successful. And they talk to them. And afterwards, they're like, oh, they're covered as the same exact thing.

Except they're like, yeah, but the women are the one with the whips and they're punishing the band members. And they're like, oh, that's clever. Yeah. Yeah, it's so hard. There's such a slim line between clever and stupid, you know. Yeah, that's a great line. What's wrong with being sexy? Sexist.

I know. It's such, it's a funny movie. I mean, I could see this like warming on me, especially if like, I could imagine, you know,

especially in like the 80s or 90s, like just watching this on repeat. And I understand why comedians have such affectionate love for this film. Because it seems like it's, it would just grow on, on repeat viewings. There's so many little details that are just so fun to pull out. And it's so well crafted,

you know. Well constructed. And even though I didn't connect super strongly with it, like it does feel very ahead of its time in that sense. Definitely. Yeah, it does. Like it doesn't seem like 1984 comedy. Not at all. No.

I mean, look at some of the comedies from the 80s. I mean, we're talking about weird science and revenge of the nerds and all. That's true. Actually, it's aged extremely gracefully. Yeah, yeah. With that in mind. Yeah. So with that in mind, like, what would the best of?

hit falls do you think that they avoided in this that um it easily could have like tripped up and fallen on because i got to talk about this sequel a little bit oh because it was it was shocking it was like it was it was sad i didn't laugh a single time well like genuinely like yeah where i was like chuckling all through this is spinal tap thought it was yeah you said charming adam i i agree there is a charm to it where spinal tap too it just felt sad and they kind of joking that you're about it I guess that's supposed to be the joke of the movie the end continues type thing but it's like the premise is we've already kind of been here that was what was funny about the downfall in the first movie was how they're like not selling out arenas anymore and what that was that

has done to them but then like in the sequel the framing is like oh after the release of the the original this uh this is spinal tap documentary now they're really famous so they're able to get like a second wind and have a big show that they're building up to but now they're really old and have to sit down. And yeah, it was just sad. And especially with the recent stuff with Reiner, there's some jokes now that are reframed. There's one towards the beginning that was like,

oh my God, this is like actually horrible now. There's this whole joke Rob Reiner has about, there's a joke that the Michael McKean character is now making true crime podcast music. Like he's scoring them. And then Rob Reiner, he says people love murder. He says that and he's like, makes a joke about it. It is so, yeah, it's like, oh, they hated the way that that landed now.

But then, yeah, having to like modernize, you know, the quaintness of the 80s, like, rock star is one thing. But then, yeah, they have to modernize it into 2025 and have crypto jokes and, like, modern tech stuff. It just doesn't work. It feels like forced. And that all that organic stuff from the original is lost. And then the actual jokes, they're so obvious there's more slap stuff. reference stuff bringing in real musicians

to have these cameo appearances the drummer from the chili peppers and Metallica Paul McCartney comes in for this egregious scene that reminded me of

what was that Danny Boyle movie with the Beatles speaking of the 60s? Yesterday. Yeah, yesterday when Ed Shearing comes in and it's like just halting the movie to have this celebrity cameo

that no one asked for. they do that not only with Paul McCartney but Elton John as well like this is ruining the whole gag this is ruining the whole like point of what was so brilliant about the original and then of course referencing the original movie they couldn't help you know like referencing the songs and all of the the best jokes and then adding in these really bizarre ones like Christopher guest has an ongoing gag about cheese his whole character is like obsessed with cheese and every gag is just cheese related. It's so like, yeah, it just feels forced and like they were trying to create the conditions to get the turn up to 11 thing again so they could have that moment. But you can't force

that, you know, that that has to come organically. You can't just make that happen. And it does feel like a bad S&L skin. When the original kind of feels like they are documenting something real, it just felt like, yeah, utterly forced is the word. They, if you wanted to like, You could do a mockumentary on the current state of like a band, but it couldn't be a rock band anymore. You know, it would have to be like a K-pop band or something, you know. Yeah, not laughing once is egregious. It was, yeah, just sad, sad and embarrassing. And I kind of wish they didn't make it because it's just one of those things.

You just got to know when to leave it. Just leave it. It's this perfect, like, gem that you know, like. Yeah, there is just a sad thing. to it don't dig it I would not recommend watching it especially now with the context of rob riner is just yeah it's just kind of upsetting actually thanks for warning us yeah i wasn't gonna watch it anyway i'm looking at the trailer right now and it's like just even the visual style is just kind of ugly and not yeah yeah there is something about that setting it being in the

80s um that style of it yeah it's too clean kind of loses its authenticity i wonder if if if like you modernized it in a way and had it appear more to be like a Netflix documentary if that would like fix things because it's modernized anyway. That's exactly what I wanted to say, which is like if they're emulating a certain type of documentary aesthetic in the first one, like they'd have to emulate a different type of documentary aesthetic. Like maybe something like the Peter Jackson Beatles, Dockers or you know, some kind of like we're looking back on this band in a new way with like talking heads and a different.

different type of style. So Alex, does it try to emulate, like, a new type of documentary style, or is it just kind of... No, it's very much trying to do what they did in 84, but just with 2025 tech. Yeah, that's not. And that doesn't work in the exact way to imagine. That sucks. That's not good. Yeah.

It looks ugly. They should have brought Bill Hader and Fred Armisen in there to... Sure. But there just wasn't enough, like, to mine. Like, they'd mined it all. They got it all in the original. Did you guys see the Ian Rubbish skit that Fred Armisen and Bill Hader did on SNL years ago? That is like very, very similar to Spinal Tap in that it's like, you know, doing a parody of punk bands of that era.

And the whole thing is like Ian Rubbish, he like hates everyone, he hates the queen, he hates everyone except for Margaret Thatcher. And like that like breaks up the band because he's just. like, I love you, Maggie Thatcher. And all his songs are like, love balance to Margaret Thatcher. You guys should check that out. History of Punk. But it's like, yeah, history of punk.

Yeah, it's like identical. It's so, it's clearly like inherits the spinal tap like message of being very like, very specific and funny. And doc, again, documentary now. I feel like that's the true like follow up to the spinal tap legacy. It's so many good episodes. there. They do like the thin blue line and all that stuff. It's great. Well, yeah, that was another thing I guess about spinal tap too is that we have had a lot of mockumentaries that have

kind of reinvigorated it and gone in different directions and showing what they can do. Yeah. Yeah. There's so many. American Vandal. Right. Yeah, American Bandul. Yeah, there's so many great examples. There's a question in the question segment. I want to bring up about that. But yeah, it just feels like they haven't taken in the landscape. Yeah, let's just do the same thing again without soaking in like what's changed with comedy. We're trying to do the same thing, but yeah, it just feels inauthentic. Yeah, like an unintentional parody of itself.

Yeah, yeah, which just makes it sad and unwatchable. Well, thank you, Alex, for doing the homework to do that and saving us the time to do that. Sure. I feel like, yeah, maybe one of us should have seen the sequel. I'd actually kind of forgotten that that even came out. It didn't make much of a splash. No one really particularly likes it. Exactly.

Yeah. It's easily forgotten. Wait, so is Rob Reiner's first movie and last movie, Spinal Tap movies? This was his, Spinal Tap was his first movie? Was it his first movie? I believe it, who was his debut, his directorial time to find it right now. Rob Reiner. There's TV movie.

TV, movie, video. Okay. For like a feature, yeah. Yeah, this is Spinal Tap, his first feature. Something that's not listed as a TV, movie, or video. Yeah, that's his first. That's crazy. That's crazy.

Proper theatrical film, yeah. Man, what a run. I mean, look at the, like Spinal Tap, 86, Stand By Me, 87, Princess Bride, 89, when Harry met Sally, 90, misery, 92, a few good men. And then he makes North in 94, and then it's just kind of downhill from there, but still, that's an exact.

incredible run. That's insane. Oh, LBJ. I forgot he made LBJ. God, that was not a good film. Yeah. LB.J. is the, who plays L.Rawoodie Harrelson plays LBJ. Woody Harrelson, yeah. I watched like 20 minutes of it and it's like the prosthetics on his face are so heavy that he doesn't even look like LBJ. I'm like, if you're going to put all these prosthetics on him, he doesn't even look or sound or act like LBJ. What is the fucking point of all the prosthetics? That's hilarious. It was not good. That sounds fascinating, actually. Well, yeah, I enjoyed it. Sorry, I didn't contribute much to the conversation.

It was just like, I genuinely forgot that we were going to even talk about it. It's like, oh, yeah, Avatar, Marty, and then questions, and then, oh, so thanks, Jake, because I genuinely forgot. Well, I had a terrific time. Thank you for recommending it, Alex. This was a fun one. Yeah, I had a great time. this is a really solid three and a half star for me. I'd watch this again.

I just love this an hour 22. It doesn't ever stay as welcome. There's so many great memorable jokes. Yeah. I totally understand why it has the reputation it is. And I'm giving this one, a six out of ten. Okay. Sure.

I'm giving this one a nine out of ten. Nice. Awesome. Oh, and I'd give Spinal Tap 2, the end continues, a one star. Damn. Poopy, stinky. A little bit poopy, a little bit stinky. Well, shall we do questions?

Yeah, let's do some questions then. From the Saldonika's community, head over to the suggestion throw it over on the subreddit. If you want to leave questions for future episodes, just like Gugs, Sugs, Diz, is what I was getting out earlier. Fitting in with a spinal tap discussion, what are your favorite mockumentaries? I feel it's a very underrated genre,

as it's similar to found footage in how beginner and budget-friendly it is for new directors. Haven't seen it in a while, but man bites dog is mine, and it's one I think Adam would get a lot out of for combining disturbing content with dark humor. Also, as a Minnesota resident, thanks Alex for predicting the shitty start to the New Year, cheers. Yeah, there is something about the mockumentary style that does lend itself to specifically comedy and horror. They mentioned, yeah, the found footage stuff, but that counts as mockumentary, right? Like, a combo of that is kind of like what we do in the shadows. It's like a, you know, comedy vampire thing.

Threads, which we've covered on this podcast. It's like a, that's a sort of mockumentary style of just presenting something horrifying. Or like, even in like a science fiction wrapping, a District 9 or a wreck. Utilize it really well. But in the realm of comedy, of course, there's the UK office. That's a big one. I think we were talking about Ricky Chavez earlier. Yeah.

It is really good. It's very funny and awkward. kind of defined that style in the 2000s, especially with the setting it chose. And then, you know, piggybacking off that in the loop and the thick of it, I absolutely adore those for British awkward political comedies. It doesn't really get much better than that. Yeah, those are all good ones. Yeah, I don't really know what to.

I mean, again, I really love the documentary now series. but for films this is this is kind of a weird pick but the film Zellig this is a Woody Allen film it's a mockumentary and it's like using like footage like historical footage

to try to like tell the story of a man like shape shifting throughout history it's kind of a very profoundly effective film that is funny but it's like very it's a cool concept meaningful it's actually it's unlike any of his other movies which is why I really like it.

It's actually very interesting. Yeah, most people haven't heard of it. Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie. Oh, course. Is that a mockumentary? I didn't realize. It's coming out February 13th. Yes, it is.

Okay, cool. That's the Matt Johnson's style. Like, almost everything he does is like a mockumentary style. You have hyped this up so much. If it doesn't, like, make me come immediately. I don't know. I think it'll make you come. Okay, cool.

I'll prepare. I mean, I love the show. Yeah, the show's awesome. I'm actually just now finally going through the web series. And even though it's not as good as the Viceland show, it's still very competent and very funny. Borat and Bruno, those are some great classic documentary, mockumentary films.

Yeah, those are my faves. I do enjoy American Van Gogh. as well for like a show and what we do in the shadows is good also yep you guys um heard of kunk on earth yeah she's funny philomena kunk is awesome yeah that's a really good i need to watch more she rocks yeah that was like a charlie brook her like side character that's so good she became her own show yeah because she just like would steal the show whenever she was on screen it's so fucking funny. Yeah. Yeah, I think we

gave a good list of options there. How about this one from Zebly Skoo? Which Sard's the Sardist? Hmm. Hmm. Which one's the most sardonic? I mean, I feel like that goes to Adam.

It's got to be Adam, right? Probably. Yeah. It's got to be. That makes sense. You came up with the name? Thank you. I accept this award. On behalf of all sards.

Yeah. Congratulations. You're welcome. But that condenses my milk, said, question for Jake and Alex. I guess you're not allowed to answer, Adam. Have you seen the new trailer for the new Animal Farm animated film coming out later this year? I watched this trailer.

Why is this just directed to me and you? Because I did a reaction to it, so they already know the answer. Oh, I see. Okay. I did a trailer. So it's an Andy Circus. directed, is it Angel Studios? Yeah.

That's one of the weird parts about it. It looks hideous. Seems to kind of miss the point. Yeah, it looks like a parody of animal farm that you'd see in this studio or something. And Seth Rogen's in it. Yeah, right. Playing a pig again. Oh, man.

Yeah. With all these like spider versus spider animated movies You can do like an animal farm like a cool It needs to be frightening It does exactly That film needs to be scary Well you know I mean they did manage to make something Orwellian Yeah I guess so

At the end of the day Really whether they It's in the way that they tried to or not Literally 1984 guys Like 1984 Literally It's true Yeah I don't know what like

every single film that Andy Circus is directed is just so strange. I don't like him. I don't get it. Is it just for the paycheck? You just don't like him at all? Yeah, there's something about him. He seems like way too far up his own ass. Oh, I don't know about that.

I mean, maybe he just got handed a bad projects that got compromised. I mean, who knows? You also, I don't know, there's just this weird sort of like him. trying to take the credit for the work of a lot of animators as well, like throughout his career has just also kind of been off-putting. Wait, really? Because of Golem. Oh, yeah.

He's like, I'm doing all the acting here and nothing is touched up. Oh, he said that? Or he's like, yes, verbatim. Okay. I mean, because I feel like there's a point where it's like that his performance should be considered as like an acting performance, you know, and like be treated. as such, you know, but it's treated as animation instead. So I do think that's like a complicated thing. Like, yeah, animation isn't involved, sure, but it's like there's still a performance there

underneath. Yeah. Well, James Cameron and that whole crew are very passionate about that, right? Whenever they talk about Avatar, they get very touchy if you call it, like voice acting. Or the motion capture. They say, no, it's emotion capture. Exactly, yeah. Uh-huh. But yeah, Andy Serks is directing up with a motley movie venom. Let there be carnage. He directed that. Animal Farm. Yeah.

Yeah, he did. Oh, shit. I mean, I didn't realize. Okay, he's great. He's great filmmaker. He did the mocap for Venom's floating goo head. Dude. Oh, man.

All right. Oh, and I think he's going to, isn't he directing the hunt for Gollum? Yeah. Jesus Christ. Okay. Fucking out, dude. it's tough out there it's a tough industry

yeah it's rough not as rough that hurts the rude oh anyway yeah enough of Andy let's do

yeah what comes into your head when I read this one from pristine CD 2660 are there any movies that you consider to be great despite disagreeing with the message

or morality presented we've had this sort of question before that's always good to tune back in and see what comes to mind. I'm not sure if Jake has answered it. But one that kind of, I have a couple, I think, that pop into my head.

The Dark Knight kind of like justifying the Patriot Act and mass surveillance is like, it's very, you know, 9-11 reacting to all that. It's not like completely black and light. They do have like a character kind of bring it up,

but it seems to be that the the film is saying that it is justified in some way I guess which is kind of like and the other one is I'm still kind of torn on this one I need to revisit this the Wolf of Wall Street

sure that's a good example I think time is actually kind of warped that movie for me especially when I see like TikToks of like the real dude and he's like doing better than ever and it's like I'm not really sure if I've if that film like succeeded and what it was going for,

the satire stuff. I need to see it again. I haven't seen it like since it came out, so it's been like 10 years. But something about it doesn't really sit right with me. Whereas I feel like the, the parody satire angle of like an American Psycho or Fight Club, I think stood the test of time.

I don't know if War Street has. I think it's kind of like, just kind of propped up the like Andrew Tate style culture interesting yeah I don't know yeah I don't know because I mean like we were just talking about Marty Supreme also where it's like you can still

kind of be like rooting for a complex character in a way where it's like I don't know might not translate to real life yeah I feel that too but having the real guy like in the movie is weird to me as well I don't remember that even I don't know I wouldn't watch it again

I need to watch it again and really think about it a bit more, but that's, that's one, that's what popped into my head when I, I saw this question. Yeah. I mean, that's, uh, the wolf of Wall Street. I mean, it is interesting. It's a fine line between like, you know, I was just complaining about the Marty Supreme stuff, but yeah, there are a lot of people complain about, um, Wolf of Wall Street. And a lot of it's like, well, do we, I know, I know we've talked about this before,

specifically with the Wolf of Wall Street. So I don't want to get, you know, to another weedster. But I don't think it's there, it's not their responsibility to, you know, you know, conduct how the culture is going to be feeling and reacting to the film. You know, like, I do think that movie is a huge critique of it. And if dumb people are going to, you know, use it to validate their greed, then go for it and glamorize it. They can do that.

I mean, people do that with so many works of art as it is. I mean, look at people who glorify whiplash as some kind of like hustle grinds it movie about being great. Yeah, so, and you also mentioned the Dark Night. I would go a step further and say the Dark Night rises is way more conservative than the Dark Night even is. It's kind of like a, but that's also, I think, fundamental to a lot of superhero stories, you know, it's kind of like we need the, you know, especially Batman, you know, like

societies run amok, we need some guy that beat up all the bad guys. it is kind of like a bit of a conservative fantasy, not saying that it's not enjoyable. And I love a lot of films and media that are dabble in that world. But that's part of the fantasy of fiction and exploring the darker sides of our thoughts in fiction. And that's what is good about it, you know? Like one of my favorite movies is Dirty Harry, you know, and I do not agree with the politics of Dirty Harry, but I think it's a fantastic movie. and a lot of John Millius's films, Clint Eastwood's films, you know,

they are like politically abhorrent to me, but their works of art, you know, and that's the same can be said of, you know, lots of, if we, you know, a work of art can stand alone from a creator's politics if it transcends that and it is genuinely artistic. I think that's why a lot of people from the right and left are losing their fucking minds over one battle,

after another. I see another stupid take about it every day online where it's like, well, actually, they're not doing revolutionary politics, right? And it's making fun of their revolutionary politics. And they should actually, it's like, it's not a manual, you know, it's a, it's a movie, it's a work of art, it's not trying to tell you how to do leftist politics, you know, it's a film. It's so. Can be commenting on something without prescribing it. Exactly. Exactly. Obviously, it's a complicated topic. But, Yeah, that's how I feel about it I feel like art has a duty to

stand outside somewhat and not be didactic I fucking hate that when a movie is trying to preach to me about a political world even if it agrees with mine Yeah How do we feel about the big short

I remember kind of enjoying it when I was out But like how do we feel about that in terms of like messaging now I remember finding it kind of condescending A bit condescending yes I think that's a good word for it. I mean, I didn't enjoy it. I mean, it's fine, but I don't think it's especially, yeah, it's like the don't look up kind of thing where you have an attitude where it's like even though I agree with the politics here, I think Adam McKay is like a, you know, I would say I agree with his politics. But the way that it's done, you know, it can come across is like, hey, we're trying to like have a good message here and trying to give you something smart and intelligent and of value inside of the.

this like sleazy entertainment that's beneath you you know it's like i i i don't like that um attitude yeah i don't know was that the movie where they literally had like a cutaway to joker lady or was that the margarobi like in a bathtub yeah yeah yeah is that the same movie yeah that's big short i believe so right yeah i remember that that is kind of funny because it is kind of like directly and blatantly condescending in that way. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.

It's assuming you are dumbass. Which is, I don't know, I don't know if that's the best place to start. I think Adam McKay's best movies are like the ones he did earlier with, you know, stepbrothers and Talladega nights. Like. Where he's not taking himself as seriously. Well, yeah. But also it's like he's not condescending to the audience and trying to be like, I'm telling you, giving you guys an important message here. It's like you can watch Talladega Nights

And I did And it's one of my dad's favorite movies And let me tell you he's not a liberal man So it's like He can enjoy that But I can also see the subtext there It's a huge critique of the Bush era world You know

But it's also a great comedy So it's yeah I miss that aspect And that side of Adam Cays filmmaking I guess The Social Network is a great movie But it also kind of serves as a weird whitewashing of

Mr. Zuck. There you go, yeah. Sure. Yeah, super curious how that sequel's gonna Oh my. Yeah, right? What the hell? I'm dreading.

Well, it's directed by Sorkin, so. What's the title again? The social reckoning. Reckoning, that's right? Oh, really? That sounds like a joke. It's called that. Oh, God.

That's a terrible title. Yeah, I'm so curious how that's going to. That's crazy. Because it's not, um, Eisenberg. I like that Jeremy Strong's going to be Zuckerberg in this one. Sure, yeah. Yeah, I do like him a lot. If it's going to work, it's probably going to be because of him. I think January 6 is supposed to be part of it too.

This is going to be such a funny movie. It's going to be like the morning show, I think. It's going to be really bad. But I'm looking forward to it. Sure. If any of the questions are asking about fucking stranger things go for it because I got to pee. Oh yeah, yeah. I'll be back.

You guys do your thing. We'll do our stranger face discourse. Here we are. Yeah, yeah. Let's do this one from Rory Meisen. Morning from Bristol Boys. Any thoughts on the frenzy, Stranger Things fans have thrown themselves into online?

As I comment now, two scheduled dates for a real finale episode have been heavily speculated online. fans have combed through the fake final episode and supplementary interviews to try and vindicate their conformity gate theory. Essentially that the final episode was a fake ending with Vecna tricking even the audience into thinking everything ended positively for the characters. Fans think this was too convenient and not just a substandard finale and writing. This really made me think about the power social media and fandom has on prolonging a piece of media's life cycle. Do you have another example of this in public media? Happy 2026 lads.

You don't really need to go into the crux of that question there. I'd rather just kind of talk about Strangerth, I think it was for a second than this theory that was... Sure. It just took over. And it was kind of like a mass coping event. It is, yeah.

And I've been there, man. I was there for like Mass Effect 3 in the end of like BBC Sherlock. Sherlock, oh my God. You know? You know, it's like, it's bad on purpose. There's no way this is the real ending. Like, it's all like a ruse somehow. Because like you can't follow Occam's razor and just see.

like it's just it was just bad you know like they just didn't land the plane so it has to be a conspiracy theory of course um which obviously didn't happen yeah yeah i mean is there uh is there like a what's the mass effect three yeah yeah just the indoctrination theory there's an indoctrination theory it's the exact same thing the exact same thing that's great um yeah but just the strange of things um Yeah, and it really is just as simple as it just sucked. It was bad. He's dropping quality and the fandom needed to do something in order to cope with it, I guess. Yeah.

It's like a mass psychosis coping event. Those are fun. It's so fun. I think it's fun because it is like mass psychosis and it gives you an idea of how easy it is to be sucked into like Q&on and conspiracy theories. Right. Our world is basically Eddington and we're all conspiracy brain and now it's like, You know, some of the theories I was looking at, it's so funny of, like, dramatic TikTok edits where, like, people are clearly out of love. You know, a lot of people who love this show for a long time and are like, we don't want it to end.

We want it to, like, we want it to be dark and gritty and cool and not this marvel shit, you know, which is what we got. It's a fake ending. And it's like, no, that's what you got. Like, that's what it's been building towards. And, you know, it is, like, some of the theories where it's like I'll see people being like, look at this scene. all of the characters are sitting with their hands in their lap and they're at a graduation ceremony. Like what the fuck are they supposed to be doing with their hands? And it's like, well, it's because they're being controlled by Vecna. And this scene. There's a continuity error. And it's like, this reminds me exactly

of when I went to see that documentary about the Shining called Room 237 or whatever. Yeah. And it's literally like the most insane people being like, if you slow the scene down frame by frame, it looks like the reflection here is of an erect penis. And it's like, it's like the most insane theories that's, and people do this with Kubrick because they think, well, he's such a perfectionist. There's no way he would have a continuity error. And it's like, dude, you don't know how film productions, like film productions are chaotic. There's going to be continuity errors. Even for Stanley Cooper, he wasn't a god, you know, like I'm sure there are some parts in the shining that are intentional that maybe weren't continuity errors. But it's like, okay, putting that that, that,

there, the Duffer brothers aren't Kubrick, even if they, and I see so many people being like, well, they had $300 million to make a movie and they still have continuity errors. I don't believe it. I'm like, these guys didn't even have a finished script for the last episode when they went into production. Like, come on. Like, are we just, is it more likely that they made a mistake or that there's a big grand conspiracy, these guys, you know, like, come on. Yeah, especially now that documentary is out. I watched about 40 minutes of it earlier today. And the stuff that's in there is quite illuminating and I'm surprised he actually released it. I know, I know.

Some of it. Yeah, I was kind of shocked. I was seeing clips of it online because I was like, man, if I were the Duffer Brothers and they're under so much scrutiny right now about the ending, I would hate to have a documentary come out where they're literally saying, man, well, you know, we don't want it to be like an ending of a Game of Thrones ending where it kind of ruins the entire show beforehand if we don't land the plane, you know, and it's like, and seeing all their shit where they're like yeah like the production heads are coming up to them being like hey

we got to get the scripts for the last episode we're building sets right now like we need to and they're like oh and they're straight up saying in it like they don't really like writing and they mostly just wanted to be directors and they just did it because like they had to it's like really wow that they let that out there and i was watching like an old episode of Stranger Things the other day and ironically there is you know the teacher character that's like carrying who usually like has some kind of plot thing he explains um he explains the phenomena i can't remember the word but i did have a mental note of like i wish i could remember what that word was of you know spotting patterns and things where there isn't a pattern um that's exactly what the

fan booths we're doing yeah that one's like for phases no one oh right yeah yeah there's some term for it some phrase for it that it's written into the show by that teacher character and then yeah that's what the fans fill into and i get it to a certain degree i'll I wanted the indoctrination theory to be real. It would have been a better ending, but sometimes just have to face the facts. Like, it just things get too big for their britches, take too long. They get tired. There's a whole section in the documentary about like, man, this shit's hard when you have young kids.

I didn't realize it was going to be like this, this kind of commitment. Like, I started this when I was 30 and I'm like 40 now, you know? You know, and it's like, yeah. So it's kind of a lot more interesting than the actual final season. It's like a two-hour big documentary, and I've got a bunch of stuff watching it. So, yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, the whole season, it's just so underwhelming.

It is, the whole show just becomes Marvel. Like, they all just act like superheroes, and they're standing around in the radio tower. It's like their Avengers Tower. And everything's a hero show. It literally. And there's like 50 people. Even Will's coming out scene. It's like shot like a big epic like action scene.

It's bizarre. Yeah. What did Will come out is gay? Yeah. Literally. That's like the big emotional like scene. Oh my good. They have like 24 hours to go do some crazy blow up the upside down or whatever.

And they're like, okay, we got five minutes to go. And then Will is like, hold on, guys. I need to tell you guys something. And he has a really like a 10 minute monologue where he's coming out. And it's like poetic. And he's like, I love sunflowers and roses. but I don't like girls. And it's like every character in the show is standing there and they're just like...

Yeah, it's like 16 people in the room. That's hilarious. Including characters he's never like had conversations with. I know. Just in the final episode? The second to last. Oh, wow. Yeah.

No, the final episode is like Wild Wild West. They fight a giant spider in a big CGI land desert. Yeah. They go to another planet. Yeah And fight a spider Yeah A spider called the mind flare

That just I guess Forgets that like Mind stuff and messing with minds Is something it could do And that could be cool You could do something greater with that You know Like going into people's minds

And exploring their Their character that way Yeah There's like so much you could do with it But they just They thought they needed scale For some reason When that was never

What was the appeal Of the show The more cosmic Like Real Back horror Is what was cool about it it was just kind of in the background usually and it didn't indulge and giving you a bunch of answers and they just felt like oh no we need to explain but it's not another dimension there's a there's a whole there's a math to this and you can draw it and it's like oh my god why are you doing this like people just want to see the cute characters interact and just say goodbye to them it wasn't like they just really over complicated it and that was the best part of the whole series was just the last 40 minutes of the last episode when it's like oh yeah they're high schoolers i forgot that they live in a town and they have to work and they have jobs and they have jobs. And they have, you know, like, why wasn't it about that?

Like, yeah, I don't get it. These forced Eureka moments in like all the episodes before it, but they're like coming up with these plans and everyone's interchangeable, you know? It's like, I've got, here's my idea. Like, who's leading them? No, this is the issue. Yeah. Like, who's in charge?

It's just depended on the scene. Yeah, it's so self-indulgent. Yeah, there's like 20 of them. And it's like, any moment a character will be like, all right, we're doing this. And everyone's just like, all right, cool, we're doing this. I have some crack brain theory about. about the fucking, you know, well, Vecna's brain actually works like this. And here, let me get a record player to be a metaphor for this is Will and this is

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we got it, blah, blah, blah. Like, it's incredibly convoluted. And I love how half the season takes place in Vecna's mind. And it basically goes nowhere and it's just like stalling, stalling to try to come to some kind of reveal of like, we're being promised to reveal about Vecna's character and what's in his inner mind and what his thoughts are and what's the truth. behind Vecna. Why is he the way

he is? Well, it turns out he just touched an evil rock. Yeah. Which we're going to explain in the spin-off show, actually, that's sat in a different time. Right, maybe he's like, oh my God. Yeah, he's just an innocent guy. He just touched an evil rock, and now he's mad. Okay, cool. Great.

That was worth, you know, eight hours. I am scrolling through this conformity gate hashtag on Twitter and the parallels between this and the indoctrination theory. Yeah, it's so similar. It is very similar.

Maybe just every like 10 years or so, like they just have to, has to do it. Because even Game of Thrones, like, that's still like the most spectacular dud ending. Yeah. Probably out of like all the pop culture history. I don't remember that happening for that. There was no way you could spin that to make it like a secret. Like it's bad on purpose reveal thing. But, yeah.

Yeah. Well, I mean, when the show itself kind of has almost like science fictiony fantasy, well, elements that make you feel as though it could be in someone's head or something. You know? Mm-hmm. Because, like, the indoctrination theory for Mass Effect, like, I choose to believe that. Yeah, that's my head kind of. It makes, it, exactly, like, it makes the ending better.

Right? So, I never finished season one of Stranger Things, and I'm glad I didn't, so. So, yeah. Anything else on Stranger Things? Because it's pretty spectacularly bad. I was like blown away. It's so ugly to look at to you. But the amount of money they spent.

And that's sort of sad about this documentary thing. Seeing all the sets they built and all this big gooey like walls and all this stuff that they built. They worked really hard. The way it was shot and lit. It looked horrible. No. It's like, why did it end up this way? And you have to think like it must come down to planning, you know, and like have not the writing not being there until the

I'm sure, here's what I think might happen, all right? Everyone's talking about this theory conformity gate because it kind of reminds me also of like the Snyder cut, you know, which for a while was just like a conspiracy theory. Like, oh, there's a Snyder cut. And there sort of technically was, but it's not like a finished film. But HBO decided, hey, it's worth putting millions of more dollars into this to let Snyder do some reshoots and do the VFX on this version of his film. so let's do that. Not technically like a film that was just sitting there, but it's like, well, we could do that.

I think Netflix one day might be like, hey, people want more. We have all of these deleted scenes because they obviously, I feel like they must have tons of alternate taste deleted scenes. I'm sure they did tons of focus testing on how the ending would be, blah, blah, blah. I'm sure there's got to be lots of extras

that they could just be like, hey, here's an alternate episode of the last episode, conformity gate here you go guys and it'd just be like a slightly different version I could even see them like just straight up green lighting like a three episode thing yeah maybe you know like just keep milking it like El Camino

why not you know man so it's five seasons how much of the show did you like enjoy I've rewatched a bunch of it since because I was like this there's no way it was this bad I had the same feeling and kind of got into it again

And I think there's something to like about every season, actually. And I thought it was actually picking up pace in a way with season four. Yep. With this like Beckner villain. And the way he was introduced and he was kind of obscured. And there was like a cool kind of reveal based around him. I was like, this is like being up scene for me. It's not like these little demon dogs anymore.

It felt like it had a bit more purpose. And yeah, it felt like it was going somewhere. And then the fourth season ends on this like huge reveal and this big like wide shot. There's like these huge implications. And then they literally like just put tape over it. The start of season five. And it's like, what? What, what are you doing?

Oh my God, there's so many things you can block out and talk about. And yeah, a lot of it in that documentary, they're just talking about scale. They're just obsessed with scale. There's that whole, yeah, the siege on the bunker. It's like the biggest, most difficult thing we've ever done. And it's like the worst scene in like the entire show. It's like all the, yes, all the resources in the wrong places when it, Just need to keep it simple, stupid, man.

There you go. I'm with you there. I mean, I feel like season one is the best, like hands down. Yeah. But, yeah, there's stuff to like. I like season three, you know, there's stuff in there. That's fun and stupid. Yeah, it's got some good stuff in there.

I like the whole, like, Russian secret base under the mall and stuff. It's fun. It's fun. But again, yeah, there's season five. It really does feel like they're just, like, totally out of their depth. Like, they just are kind of, like, not really knowing where to take this thing. Endings are hard. especially TV shows, but

man, it could have been way better, yeah. That's just, yeah, it's just long in the tooth at that point, too. You know, they were like in their 20s. There was a charm to that original season with all these, like, little kids. And they, like, looked and acted like little kids

and Winona Ryder had, like, a big role in the story. They just forgot about her, I guess. She does nothing in the last season. Well, she does nothing in the season. It's like she's one of the better actors on the show. And, okay, maybe. we shouldn't give all of the heavy dramatic scenes to a guy who can't really act, you know, um, Noah Schnapp is like, I'm sorry, but it's like, dude, that's like, there's so many scenes

of him. He wasn't that bad when he was a little kid. He was way worse. No, him and distractingly bad. Yeah, there's some really, really weak acting in this. And they have to do really tough stuff as well. Lots of crying and emotion and drama and theatrics. and it's just the, yeah, not buying it.

No. What could have been, you know, what could have been. Yeah. Congratulations, Netflix. What are you going to do now? Are you sold? Are you going to watch all five seasons of Stranger Things now? No.

I tried watching the first season twice. I couldn't make it past episode four. Interesting. I was just so bored. I guess now Netflix is just going to own like WB, right, so they can just milk other stuff. Is that, like, for sure happening? I still

I think it's like fully confirmed but when that inevitably happens or like it'll buy Disney it's it's Word of Brothers is going to be bought by someone yeah they're going to be bought by Netflix Paramount wants to buy it I mean it's all

it's all shitty in every direction okay there you go all right was that the last topic did you want to do one more question or no do one more

or wrap this guy up sure sure let's end on this one from Agile Ad 1665. What do you tell slash think about people who say, OMG, that movie's from 1997. That's very old, and they have a hesitancy to watch it. I know you're under no obligation to convince people to watch these movies,

but how would you go about convincing someone that there are great films made before 2005? I guess. It's literally no point in arguing with someone like that. You just got to let it go. You just got to let it be. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if I've ever talked to anyone that said that. I think it just has to do with who you'd surround yourself with.

I've talked to plenty of people like that. If I get like an inkling of someone being like that, I usually don't. Go around them. I get the, I have the opposite thing happen normally where like over Christmas and New Year talking to like my cousins and like they just don't really give a shit about movies. They just think they all suck and like, only the older stuff is like good. you know um interesting because yeah they see like the minecraft movie and this kind of stuff and it's like no there is there is good stuff out there you just he's know it's a look um you just have to watch not only disney owned properties uh-huh that's all you have to do yeah

you have to like care about what you're watching you have to have like some basic agency in the choices you make for the media you consume like really basic i guess everybody's just fed shit on an algorithm anyway, so why wouldn't that translate to movies? You know, nobody fucking uses their subscription tab and YouTube. They just, oh, what does YouTube want to show me today? And that's how, that's probably exactly how people treat movies. Is what does Disney want to show me? Why is everything bad?

Yeah, they open Netflix, they open, yeah, open Disney Puss. Why is everything bad? When I talk to people, there's usually a divide. Either they're like open to movies, you know, and they're like, yeah, I'll watch movies. I'm interested in seeing good films, you know, of any generation. They're open-minded. And then there's people who simply are like, I don't give a fuck about movies, you know? Like, that's just not something they're into, just like how I'm not into playing video games, really, or immersing myself in that, you know?

And it's like, at that point, what can you say or do? It's just like, okay, all right. You know, I think it's better to be, I don't really find people that much these days who are like, oh, yeah, I like new movies, but I'm not going to watch anything before 2005. Because at this point, if you have any investment in film as a medium, you know, you've taken time to sit down and put a Blu-ray on or you aren't just watching things on your phone. Then it's like you have some kind of investment in seeing really quality stuff. So, you know, you're already five steps in that direction. You know, we don't really have to.

You're doing okay, you know, and you'll find eventually probably what you like. if you keep going down the rabbit hole and you'll find good stuff. Well, yeah, people who don't care, they just don't care. And you just, what can you do? Yeah. Yeah, true.

I mean, like, yeah, every decade gets looked at with rose-colored glasses anyway. Oh, yeah. So just tell the person, like, hey, make a note for yourself to ask yourself this exact same question in 10 or 20 years. and then you'll notice that there's things from this decade

that you have nostalgia for. And you'll be like, ah, he was right, and I've wasted my life. Wow. Yeah. It's getting someone to be like, I fucking wasted my whole life. Is that your goal? I mean, it's never too late.

It's never too late. All right. Exactly. I think that's a good sentiment to, to finish off with, right? It's never too late. Never too late. I agree.

Thanks for putting up with my illness today, guys. Sorry for all. Thanks for sticking around for the episode. Thanks for putting up with my brain fog and fatigue. We have it no other way. This was kind of a little bit, a little bit sleepy of an episode for me. Sorry, everybody.

No, you're fine. You're good. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I'm normally the 01. Hey, it's 2026, the dynamic. are changing, you know. Alex, you can have a baby and, you know, it'll be, uh, shake it up a little bit. Shake it up a little bit. Yeah. And Adam, you're going to start affecting a British accent. Yeah. It'll be good. Nice. Right. No. That was what? Oh, no. That's not good. I know. Take it back.

We have a guest next episode. Yeah. So the guest is picking. the recommended film. That guest is Louise Ward, director of castration movie Anthology One Traps and director of castration movie anthology two.

I forget the rest of the title. The best of both worlds? I don't remember. Yeah, I think the best of both worlds is the title. You're right. Oh, yeah. She's going to join and she's recommending Breaking the Waves by Lars von Trier Hey, nice, sweet

Have either of you seen it? I haven't seen that, I've seen it, I really like it. It's a good movie, yeah. Oh, good. And Alex, you have not? I have not, I like what I've seen of Lars. Okay, cool.

Yeah, what Lars film says everybody's seen? I've seen Breaking the Waves, and I've seen Um, Antichrist. Oh, okay. I haven't seen that. Dancer in the dark, we did the episode on. Dancer in the dark. That's the other one I've seen.

It's really nice. I've seen the nymphomaniac. Two of those. House of Jackbilt. Um, so I need to see melancholia. Okay. I would say, yeah, yeah. Breaking, breaking the waves is like a good major one that we haven't covered.

So anyway, uh, if y'all listening don't want to be spoiled for, Breaking the Waves directed by Lars von Trier watch it before the next episode comes out these episodes come out every two weeks you can listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com sign up for premium it's only a couple bucks a few bucks a month you know it's peas

it's nothing and also we'd like don't do these fucking sponsored ads in these right you got to give us a got to give us something for that Patreon.com slash Sardonicast will do the same thing, or go to the members button. Click join under the video on YouTube. Okay. Okay. We also have a Sardonicast highlights channel.

You can subscribe to that. We want more fan art. Give us fan art, man. Give us more fan art. We want it. Respectfully. The three of us is Navi, please. No.

Dang. All right, yeah, thanks for joining everybody. We will all three of us, we will go to sleep now. Yeah. Have a happy castration, Breaking the Waves, Navi, Avatar, Marty Supreme. Yeah. Have a happy castration. So blue.

Happy castration is crazy. Yes. All right. Bye everybody. Bye, guys. Bye bye-bye.