Sardonicast - Sardonicast 212: 2026 Oscar Winners, Project Hail Mary, What Happened Was...

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

Listen early and ad-free at https://sardonicast.com or https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Merch: https://ymsmerch.com/products/normie-masterpiece-sticker-sheet Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/sardonicast.bsky.social Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Sardonicast Highlights: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8AhJ0bzQgs5fb9m_ZCRqkw/featured Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@YMS Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Jake's channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ManCarryingThing Jake's movie channel: https://www.youtube.com/@womancarryingman Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/yms.bsky.social Jake's twitter: https://x.com/ManCarrying Jake's bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/mancarryingthing.bsky.social Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Jake's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mancarryingthing Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Timestamps: 0:00 Intro, Oscars 27:48: Project Hail Mary 1:02:14 What Happened Was... 1:32:10 Questions 2:03:47 Recommendation + outro

Three, two, one, get me out of here. That was a quote from Project Hail Mary. He said that, actually. Yeah, I guess. I'm Adam from your movie Sex. This is Sardonicast. I'm Alex from A.C. And I put the knot in astronaut.

Oh, furries might like that one too. Yeah? What? Explain. No comment. No, I'm not going to explain it. Jake. Go for it.

I'll say you word for it. Oh, my God. don't know either. I'm Jake. I'm from man-carrying thing and woman-carrying man and did that just happened? I like I like the did that just happened. I know. I fucked it up. I know you improved it. You sound like one of my Argentinian editors. Did that just happened? Which is from the movie. Did that just happen? No, no. What is it? I keep forgetting what it's called. What happened was. That was actual title seems wrong.

What I meant was. Is the full title. County Out is the subtitle. Yeah. Hi guys. How are you doing? Not doing too bad. Yeah, decent. Okay.

Yeah. A little bit decent. Good. Had a pretty good couple of weeks. I mean, it flew by because I've been mostly just working my fucking ass off, but I've been forcing myself to take some time off as well. So I've been having some nice, relaxing weekends. Oh, good.

Nice. Very nice. So very hectic and then very nice. What about you, Alex? Yeah, I guess I had my birthday. Oh, shit. Happy birthday. When was your birthday?

It was on the Oscars and we forgot to wish him a fucking birthday. He told us this before. God damn it. It was on your Oscar. I forgot to wish him a happy birthday on the Oscars. Yeah, but it was only like for an hour of that stream. Okay. I already have my birthday.

God damn it. I don't know. I'm not one of those people. cares about my birthday at all. Same. Like, what, 32? I also don't care about your birthday. It's just another one.

Okay, well, you literally sound like the woman and did that just happen? Did that just happen? Did my birthday just happen? Okay, well, happy birthday, Alex. Yeah. To the ground. I'm an adult. How does it feel to be 32?

The same. The same. You're not like Caden, Catard. in the last 10 minutes of Synecda Key, New York? Not yet. I'm getting there. Hopefully, yeah. Yeah.

I'm the only person still in their 20s in the podcast. I know, isn't that crazy? Yeah. The one with the wife and child. True. That is funny. Well adjusted, reads books. I would say I don't represent the 2020s people.

No. You're a Zoomer, right? Technically. Yeah. Technically, yeah. just on the customer. I mean, what would it be other than technically? Spiritually Gen X, physically boomer.

Physically boomer. I like that. Okay. That can be someone's like new Reddit username. Someone take it quick. Okay. Don't give people ideas about Reddit usernames. Why not?

They don't need that. The Oscars went by and it was pretty good actually. It was kind of uneventful. but that you okay yes but it was kind of boring I mean Oscar so boring

Oscar so boring When Conan made skits and jokes they landed they were good They were funny They were good Yeah

This is only my second one I've seen And you hosted both of those But he seems to be good It seems to be better than what it used to be From like your videos and stuff Adam Like I don't know if you've watched it so You have no

idea how painful the Oscars were with Jimmy Kimmel hosting or Helen DeGeneres. Okay, but Adam, for your purposes, for, you know, the Adam watches, you know, videos that you do. Isn't it much better to have a cringy Jimmy Kimmel host? It's easy to make fun of that way. Well, you know, part of me was wishing that F1 won best picture for sure. Yeah. Right, of course. But, and people do pay to see me suffer.

That is true. but I've gone through a lot and so if we if we just have a couple years in a row where things are chill I think it's fine to offset some of the other shit

okay who would be the worst possible host for next year Jimmy Kimmel no no no what do you mean that would be the worst possible host that literally would be no I'm thinking like I think Gadsby got to get who Isn't it Hannah Gatsby? The Great Gadsby?

Yeah. No, Hannah Gadsby. Nannet. We got to get Nannette. I have no idea what you're doing. I have no idea what you're talking. God, she fell off. What happened?

Hannah Gadsby. Well, I'm not a zoomer or so. Okay. Oh, they're Australian. Sorry, they fell off. My bad. Okay. There's lots of worse hosts than Jimmy Kimmel, to be perfectly fair.

No, but it would be the worst one because you would assume they've learned from it. They did it, they did a gag this year to pretend like he was going to be host again. And that was supposed, that was comedy because it was seen as so ridiculous. Because no one would ever believe that they would do that because he sucked so bad. Wait, has he never hosted it. I thought he's hosted it before. Was that Jimmy Fallon? Like, I can't keep up with the Jimmy's.

No, Jimmy Kimmel hosted the Oscars fucking four years in a row or some shit. It was the worst. Fallon never hosted, actually. Hey, let's bring Fallon in. Sure. Let's bring Letterman back. Let's bring Anne Hathaway and James Franco back. Okay.

Everybody, we need to pick our top ideal, like I would watch the Oscars for sure, and it would be great host, okay? My pick, Doug Walker. Tell me you wouldn't watch that. That would legit be so good. I'd prefer Angry Joe, I think. No. No.

Angry another Joe would be a good combo. Angry Joe would get old real quick. I don't think I would be, like, bored by him talk. I don't think I would be bored by Doug Walker voice, the entire Oscars. Like, maybe. We'd have to see. Yeah. And the next award is.

Maybe it was so mad at the end. many plays people. They did tease Mr. Beast hosting for life. I hope that never happens. I saw Mr. Beast shared it as kind of like, hell yeah. And it's like, I don't think they're making fun of you.

Yeah, I think that's another Jimmy Kimmel type. Like, wouldn't it be ridiculous? I love that bit. I mean, there's kind of like this existential dread in the Oscars. Like, you know, they kind of make reference to it with Conan Skits

where it's like, you know, his, the verticals, you know, turning movies vertical, that sort of thing, that kind of did a similar bit, previous Oscars. And also, moving to YouTube, you know, so it's like they're kind of waiting. They're dreading the turn to YouTube. And it's going to be so funny when it happens, because a lot of these actors, a lot of these executives, all these people, they have a certain sense of prestige and feeling about themselves of being superior. And then they're going to just be part of the mush, part of the, part of the mob. Yeah.

Many more people are going to see it. Yeah. If the goal is to have people watch your fucking show, YouTube. Ador. I've been saying this for years. Addo. They're finally doing it. Adder.

It's just, yeah, that's how you get people to watch it. And honestly, you know, as much as I'm sure industry would like, you know, if we were to gravitate away from cable television. anyway. I'm sure there's some in the industry that would prefer it to be hosted on something like Netflix. But we've already seen how those platforms handle something like a fucking boxing match, right? They just crash. Like, for some reason, they just don't have the infrastructure in place for multiple, for that many people to be watching the same thing at the same time. Whereas, like, I don't know. My understanding is that YouTube does. Right? Like YouTube already, like, the

game awards don't fuck up in terms of like the bit rate and the website crashing and shit is my understanding maybe this will test it yeah I imagine it'll work better I mean we'll see I mean I the thing is the

viewership was down significantly this year which isn't that surprising but it's like the lowest it's been since COVID era you know my really it's cable it's gonna keep going down nobody nobody cares yeah yeah and I thought

it would be up because it seemed like there was more, you know, people were more into the movies this year. Like, Anora was kind of a slow year in general. Like the frontrunners were like the brutalist in Anora and they weren't exactly huge crowd pleasers. The front runners this year were like one battle after another and sinners, you know, which is huge. So I thought there'd be a little more interest maybe. But I'm starting to realize that people just aren't really that interested in as a form of like competition and like the awards and who's going to win or whatever because people feel like it's kind of bought and paid for, which it is. To a large degree, yes.

That was the cringiest stuff. And then who are you going to see? Yeah, you watch the Oscars to be like, hey, there's Jack Nicholson, there's Merrill Streep in the crowd, big movie stars. Now you watch it and it's like, hey, it's young Sheldon. Like, I don't even know who's in the crowd. Markupiler was in the back. They didn't even show Markiplier.

Yeah, should have had him up front. Views would have gone way up. Just put him in front seat next to Timmy and he could just like, stick. like stare at Timothy Shallomay every time there was a fucking ballet and hopper joke. It's well yeah

I mean like people people like drama and so most of the conversation around the Oscars was like this narrative that people created about how like Michael B. Jordan

versus Tim Cham was like some sort of race war or something like I don't know like they made they made performances in movies yeah. I think the whole thing about Timothy Shalmay, that was the biggest drama and they were trying to turn it into Amelia Perez.

No one's going to be Amelia Perez again. That was the most beautiful stuff. I was a line for that one. Yeah. We have to praise Amelia Perez. That was a great drama for the Oscars. It was crazy. Great drama.

You're saying Amelia Perez was a great drama, quote Jake. You know what? Yeah. Fuck it. I don't care. Hell yeah. I had to lie last year. I was lying all about.

I was like, oh, this movie's kind of lame. And I was like secretly watching it every night. I think most people tuned into the Oscars last year for Nickel Boys. You think that's what I think that I think more train dream segments could have been. Oh, Twain Dweens. We need more Twain Dweens. I'm glad I wasn't the only person saying it that night. That's crazy.

Mm-hmm. No, but I had a great time hanging out with you guys watching the Oscars and with Louise and with IFA and everyone. It was really nice. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. No, that was awesome. And Guy L, of course. Yes, yes, yes. You're right that it was less eventful and less rage-inducing.

But I got to hang out with people I love and I was comfy for just three hours of my day. It was host. Yeah. My biggest takeaway as a show was more just like, the cringiest, like, most dated part of the presenters of the actual awards. Like, you know, when Chris Evans and R.D.J. came up. That was, like, painful or the bridesmaids kind of reunion bit, where it's like, putting minutes and minutes into these, like,

yeah. While you're cutting off, like, the actual award winners. Oh, yeah. During their speeches. You don't have time to talk? You don't have time to talk? Yeah, exactly. So that hero worship, the celebrity worship stuff, that's lame.

Ooh, that would be so funny if they played off and cut off. the presenters. Yeah, that would be funny, huh? Yeah. Well, they kind of tried to with Adrian Brony, right? Well, that was part of the big.

Yeah, that was the gag. That was pretty funny. It was, you know. Wow. It was acknowledging something that everyone was thinking. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there were some,

there were some pretty funny moments like when Kieran Colkin presented supporting actor to Sean Penn. He's like, okay, well, Sean Penn couldn't be here or didn't want to, so I'll accept it on his bat. Like, oh, maybe, does he not like Sean Penn? And Sean Penn was in Ukraine.

Oh. Did you know that? Just hanging out? Was he actually? He was hanging out with Zelensky. Yeah. I believe they presented him a fake Oscar made from like bombed railway ties or something. I don't know.

But it was kind of like a thing where it's like, hey, I'm with the real, real people, you know. Which, you know, go for it. Do your thing, Sean Penn. I mean, he's already got a couple. He's got a couple. Yeah. He doesn't really... How many...

There's not many actors with three... Three Oscars for acting. It's crazy. I mean, he was the best performance of this year, in my opinion. So... Or 2025. He was good. I mean, I would have liked Delroy to win it, but...

Do you think Delroy Lindo was the better performance? You know, it's hard to say what's better. Uh, Sean Penn was the most, it stood out the most. It was the most weird and unusual. And the fact that it worked at all that was, yeah,

menacing and funny was like really unique. Um, and he's a huge part of that movie. But Delo Rolindo is kind of one of those that's like, hey, he's been deserving for a long time and he had a really standout performance. And I really like his performance at Cinder. So,

yeah. I'm just, uh, I, I feel that, same feel of someone deserving for a long time and finally being recognized. But as an autist, probably, I feel like we... Why do you have to say probably? Well, because it's, I mean, because I have to be specific about it because I probably have autism, right? Because I can't,

I can't leave out that fucking detail. Everything has to have like context. And the context is that I don't have an official diagnosis because if I did, it would cost $3,000. as an adult and potentially make immigrating to other countries more difficult if I wanted to in the future. So why would I fucking do that when other medical professionals are saying that I likely have autism? So I'll say that exact same thing. But as a person of that description, I feel like the best performance should be awarded above

all. So even in a year where you feel like someone like, oh man, like they've deserved it for so long, I don't feel like that should trump the wasn't the best performance of the year question. Yeah. Even though that's not how the academy thinks either. So who knows how the academy thinks. I mean, no one knows a bunch of neurotypicals in the academy. Neurotypicals. They all want twain twos to lose because they're all neurotypical. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, no, I mean, it's, it was, it was fine, you know, one battle won the big, big awards and Oba.

Oba and Michael B. Jordan got his, his award, which, you know, I, he's a great actor, but I personally think Timothy Shalemay's performance was kind of like, oh, once in a lifetime. Yeah. You can't recreate that. Like Al Pacino in his peak, you know, like it's, it's going to be one of those snubs. I don't doubt that. Tim Cham's going to have like a like I think he'll still have Oscar worthy performances in the future for sure They got to humble him well, I mean that was the narrative

It was like you can't say out loud that you're wanting the Oscar No you fucking little kid a little white child You got time and they just dropped like the Dune trailer like yeah, he's good he's gonna be right no yeah, but he'll be fine I I it's it's it's to me it's It's not even necessarily that like Tim Cham was the best. It's that Michael B. Jordan was probably the worst out of all the nominees for that category. No, no. I'm not saying he was bad at all.

Yeah. In fact, he was great. But out of all of the nominees, I don't think he was as good. Um. For that category? I probably agree. Like, I thought Ethan Hawke was actually incredible. Yeah.

Ethan Hawke was fantastic. He was so good. Um, so yeah, I kind of agree. Okay, but he played, I mean, Michael B. Jordan played two people. You know what I would have loved, though? Yeah. Is for him to be nominated for lead and supporting. That could have been funny.

Yeah, I mean, because he's playing two characters. Exactly. That would work, actually. I wonder, right? Leo winning would have been very funny. You know, Leo, honestly, he maybe was one of the best. He was incredibly good in that movie. And I think it's underrated simply because it was a funny role.

And also he'd had no campaign for the Oscars. He didn't care. Right. But he wasn't out there being like, I need the Oscar. But he else. Like he was just kind of like quietly like, well, looks like I'm in another best picture winner this year. Was there a single surprising win?

There was the tie at one point. That was like the most surprising thing, really? Yeah. From memory. I can't think of anything that was a real upset. I know it was all... That's the thing. It was predictable.

It was just like, okay, all the ones that you'd think would win would win. I don't know. That's why I was hoping for F1. I mean, that would have been funny. You know, I feel like the Oscars, it is... The Oscars are becoming more diverse and it's a wider body of voters. So it's more like of a, I don't know, like a broader consensus, whereas I feel like in the older times, which it's better now.

It's actually much better now, the movies they're voting for and that are winning. I'm not complaining about that at all. There's been a lot of improvements, yeah. But I do miss the times when a green book would fly through and you'd just be kind of like, what? That's not impossible still. No, we're not. I don't think we're past the green book.

Are we? No, no, no, no, no. I miss the days of Green Book winning. Am I nostalgic for Green Book? No, we're not past that. Okay. It could happen when you least expect it. Don't get excited.

It's a bit of horror love, you know? It's just, yeah, most years, it's. going to go how you expect because otherwise that statistically there would be no such thing as an expectation if it's not what usually happened. That's true. Does that make sense? That's fair. We should make our own Oscars and just give it to, you know, just random bullshit, honestly.

Oh, just like a generator of random movies? No, just like, I think Pillion, you know, Best Picture Pillion, right? Yeah. I wonder if that's considered for 2025 or 2026. Either way, it's getting snubbed. Yeah, no, no one is. No one is watching Pillion or voting for

and nobody who's in the academy is going to be watching it, sadly. But it's a great fucking movie. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, I agree. Gosh, okay, here's a question for you guys. PTA and Orion Kugler are at like the top of the industry.

At the moment, they have like tons of leverage. What do they do with their blank check right now? What did they do? Well, supposedly PTA might be working with Denzel Washington soon. Well, that's what I call a win for humanity, right? Yeah. It's unconfirmed, but there's reasons to believe it might be happening. Isn't Kugler like remaking the X-Files or something?

That was Jordan Peel. Wait, no, that was the Twilight Zone also. Maybe you're correct. Never mind. But here's the thing with Ryan Coogler is that his name, next movie is, you know what it is, right? How to Twain your Dweens? Black Panther 3.

Of course. Really? Oh. Yeah. He's doing Black Panther 3. So it's like, and I understand they're probably paying him a shit ton of money. And it's like, you know, who can blame him? And also he started, you know, with Black Panther. So it like makes sense. But still, it's like kind of like you'd think, I don't know.

I don't think he's ever going back to Fruitvale Station, Coogler. No, I don't think so I don't think that was his interest That was his Like in Maybe he just doesn't care that much I don't know I would just like him to be done

With the Marvel world personally I feel like it's just That's a big ass Because outside of sinners Yeah it was just Black Panther Then Wakanda forever And that's like Years and years of his

Filmography right there And Creed Yeah And Creed was decent In 2015 Creed was good Creed was not bad Well here

There were some films that were nominated That didn't win anything Oh like what Like Marty Supreme didn't win anything Oh right yeah Well Marty Supreme did not get You know Have a very good PR for the past

A couple months What else? What else did it got snubbed completely There's actually a list Of films that were nominated for Best Picture

but won zero awards and I'm looking for this list and I don't know The Secret Agent probably right? I don't think yeah I don't think that won anything yeah I didn't get anything

which is fine I mean yeah but it's like I don't know it was it was all right Frankenstein did pretty well in the technical awards yeah yeah no there was something else that also Oh, whatever. I'm not going to be able to find this right now

because I guess it was just a fucking thing I saw on Twitter or Reddit and I don't know how to search for it right now. But yeah, that doesn't mean a movie bad, obviously. Tar 1-0, you know? I love tar. People still talk about tar. It's like culturally relevant.

Whenever someone shares like a clip of Kevin Spacey tap dancing in Israel, people mentioned tar. Are you just seeing lots of Kevin Spacey tap dancing in Israel clips? Is that a common thing? I've seen the exact same joke. It's a fascinating clip, though. I haven't seen Tar.

I haven't watched it. What the fuck? Yeah, I know. Have you seen a single film from Todd Field? No. I want to see Sexy Beast. No, that's not Todd Field. That's Zone of Interest guy.

They're both in the same vein, and I do not disrespect that. Oh, Jonathan Glazer. That's Jonathan Glazer. Yeah, Glaze me, Daddy. Let me go similar vibe, I guess, yeah. Yeah. Concealed, no. Well, similar vibe because they both just produce masterpieces and make a movie once every, like,

10 years. Yeah. Just like really, really good track record, but not frequent. And like in the same generation of filmmakers, too, kind of. So yeah, that confusion is very, very understandable. There's one Todd Field film I haven't seen, and it's a little children. But the two others that I've seen are both like nine and ten out of ten movies. Like, Tar is fucking incredible.

It's way up my alley. I'm curious what you would think of it, actually. I think you would enjoy it. I'm sure I would. I definitely want to see it. It's just one of those things where I wasn't like seeking out Oscar movies at lifetime, you know, just wasn't really, um, yeah, that's more of a recent thing, you know. Well, I was seeking out because people said I would enjoy it.

Um, I don't seek out enjoyment, right? I have to work. No, yeah, exactly. I don't, I don't do enjoyment. Um, that's why I'm going to be watching Devil Wars Prada 2, opening night. Um, I'm going to enjoy that. I'm enjoying that. I'm thinking, are there any specific movies you guys are especially looking forward to coming out this year? because I feel pretty optimistic about the movies this year. I think we're going to be having a good Oscars discussion this time next year. I am so looking forward to figuring out whatever the fuck the new In Yadi 2 film is, like Digger with Donald Cruz.

Oh, yeah, I know. Like, what the hell is that going to be? I don't know. Whatever it is, it's going to be interesting. Yeah. Like, Tom Cruise with a shovel. That's all we know. He digs.

He digs. He digs. He's digging. He's digging. He's busy. No, yeah. There's tons of things to look forward to in every year of film. You just got to be aware. I think it's going to be a big summer. We got The Odyssey. That's a big one. I want to see how it comes together.

Spider-Man. We got Disclosure Day, Spielberg, back with the aliens. I mean, yeah, I'll watch it. I'm not expecting it to be good. We got the Mandalorian and Grogu, right? The Glop Shetot movie, yeah. I'm not going to watch that one. But Martin Scraese is in it.

Don't you love Scrazzese? Yeah, sure. Narnia, apparently, that's a movie. Oh, yeah. Oh, you know, there's a movie coming out real soon. The new Christopher Borgley. The drama. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to see that next week.

Hell yeah. Yeah, I should look for showtimes. Also, new Boots Riley. I love boosters. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's going to premiere it set. I think it just did premiere at Sathby, actually.

And it'll get a wider release in May. We've kind of had this conversation already. I think we were asked what kind of things we were looking forward to in 2025. Ooh, here's the thing I'm most looking forward to as a feature film. Just, you know, scrolling through my shit. The History of Concrete, the new John Wilson. Both of you have to watch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've seen some episodes. Alex, I think you haven't seen it. Like, it's a masterpiece. It's fucking incredible. How to with John Wilson. It's very good, yeah. It's incredible. Like, it's 10 out of 10.

Mm-hmm. You know, I think the reason I'm feeling optimistic, though, about movies is because I just saw a very optimistic film. And it's doing very well at the box office, and it's just based on the book. And it's like not a huge, franchise IP movie. So that makes me hopeful for movies, right?

Even though it is an Amazon film and their output has not ever been good. Oh yeah, I forgot it was an Amazon film. Mercy. Amazon, MGM, yeah, NGM is Amazon now. And that movie was War of the World starring Ice Cube. Yes. And Mercy. Mercy, yeah.

Was that based off of a bike? Mercy. Mercy was based off of... Very short book, like a pamphlet. Yeah, so do you guys want to talk Project Tailmerry? I mean, yeah, probably should. I saw it. I liked it.

Did you guys like it? Sure. Okay. I liked it. I'm kind of shocked it's kind of connecting and is doing as well as it is because, I don't know, to me, from the trailers and whatnot, I thought this kind of had a bit of a bomb, like written all over it. Really?

Yeah, I don't know why, but yeah, with it being a bit riskier, with it being based on like a, it's not like a big IP, you know, it's a pretty famous book, but, um. Yeah, people really like the author. That's, I think part of why I thought it would do well is simply because like, like you guys are underestimating how big the book is. Like, it is. I am not. It is so big. Don't let me in with Alex. I would not underestimate me.

Like, like, any time on any, like, it's just huge. Everyone talks about Project Hale-Mary. And The Martian was a huge hit, you know, in like, what, 2016 or something? It's very much the Martian formula, right? Like a dude stuck in an environment trying to figure someone out. Exactly. And that side of it's fun to me, like the space nature of it. It felt so different narratively to me, though.

Because The Martian, one of my biggest reasons why I didn't connect with that movie much, and there's a bunch. But pacing-wise, the Martian, was literally just problem solutions. contained in like five, maybe sometimes even shorter, like two to 20 minute long segments that could be rearranged the entire movie. And it felt like there was not much of a through line aside from just like, well, I got to get out of here eventually. Like every single fucking scene was just problem solution, problem solution.

It was just immediately resolved. There was nothing that like carried through. Whereas this, this felt like, oh, okay, this is like a narrative. That's happening. This is like a journey. There are things that are changing throughout the story. Even though it's not like a perfect story or anything. It just, it felt so distinct while still having basically the same premise. It was kind of like sunshine meets the Martian meets, uh, interstellar meets one other thing. E.T. Arrival as well. Yeah, a little bit of arrival. Yeah. It's like a happy peppy arrival. Oh, there was a bit of moon in there. Duncan Jones, Sam Rockwell. Isolated on a space station. Yeah.

With a little buddy. With a little dude, little rock dude. Yeah. With Kevin Space. I was also interested from a perspective of it being Phil Lord and Christopher Miller's first movie since the solo disaster. True. So yeah, it's been a long time since they released anything.

I just want to see what their chops were like. And I don't know, I think it's decently well directed. but as a whole it was just certain little elements that were holding it back for me big one being that pace it did feel quite long to me like two and a half hours long I hear it's like pretty accurate to that that book and is adapting it like faithfully but there's something about that that tone that wasn't really it's pretty sappy it's pretty like saccharine saccharine especially with how it's like you using its music and the emotions it's playing with and the kind of almost like the buddy kind of

situation he gets into. And I'm normally like a mark, especially for like their style of writing with the like more sentimental stuff. But it's not that I disliked it or was annoyed by it. It's just like the comedy wasn't really speaking to my sensibilities and the neither was the entire framing of it particularly. I don't know. I'm, I just, it's one of those awkward situations for me where I like it, but I don't really have

that much passion either way. So it's more of it just kind of, yep, I enjoyed my time with it. Didn't really have the deepest experience or that kind of like hopium pill that like Superman last year gave me. I feel like it's going for kind of a tone somewhat like that, like hopeful and optimistic. It definitely is. But it didn't fully speak to me when the credits rolled, you know.

Why are you ruining our project Hail Mary discussion, Alex? I know, man. Sounds good. No, I feel the same. You know, different things jump out to me, and there's different reasons. I agree that, like, the sapiness is definitely present. And there are, I would say moments within almost every scene where what they're going for, tone-wise, hits for me.

and I feel the same thing that I think other people feel. But there is this overwhelming, like, A, it's very, it's constantly on the line in between, like, sincere and insincere sapiness, where sometimes it, like, literally just, like, veers over a tiny bit. I'm like, or in the other direction, I'm like, okay. But it's, it's riding that. line that entire time with the cutesy little, little alien buddy and the music cues especially. What I noticed about the music, it was kind of unfortunate actually.

It was pretty fucking obvious that this is a case of temp music and then get the composer to play along to the temp music, but change it just enough so that it's not copyright infringement. And it's like, okay. you know it was it was frustrating for me well you know saying that it was matching to because this was what Daniel Pemberton who did the

like the spider verse scores which are no yeah well the name of the composer doesn't matter when it comes to temp music because it's all about what the producers or director or whoever tells them to replicate they'll usually just have like an edit that they take existing tracks like this is like a rampant issue

throughout the industry right now no I just mean like when in the movie. When in the movie? One of the first scenes where let's see if I wrote down specifically in my notes what the scene was,

but it was within the first like 20 minutes and there's this kind of like really rhythmic like but that that but that but like you can hear this kind of like overtone of something a bit more

higher pitch so it's not like a jungle percussion. It's more of like a it's a, it's jungle was not the right word but it's it's there's something mildly electronic to it while still

um not sounding like digital and fake almost kind of like barely industrial but not quite and the tone and rhythm and overall like like sound

escape of it was very very very very similar to one of the tracks in the Sunshine Soundtrack, not the track, not Adagio and D minor, but one of them that starts out with the where it's literally just rhythmic. And then, you know, once the instruments come in

in both tracks, the instruments are unique. But it was definitely like, okay, yeah, yeah, you definitely had that there in the editing. And there were definitely a couple tracks near the end that I wish I could have pinpointed exactly what other things it was. reminding me of but sounded very very very familiar and was just kind of like like that drum fill near the end before um see what one of these things the songs in my head but I don't even know what

to call it um it might have been in like the it's it's used in so many trailers um was it first used in the like Spike Lee where the wild things are trailer I'm not sure but there's one that that uses like exact same drum fill than exact same tone after. Like it was just, it was happening enough times in the movie where I'm like,

it was just, it was really obvious to me. And it's not going to be obvious to most people, you know, this is, it's a me problem. But I don't like when I can tell

that that's happening is my experience. Yeah. I was, I guess I was more bothered by just how the score was used during the sappier scenes, right? like it didn't need it for a lot of a lot of the more emotional scenes I felt like had enough

going on with the performances or the framing or the environment anyway so just I don't know some of those emphasizing sappy sad uses were kind of bothersome but the when the school was used during some of the more like tension filled or like action or there's some fun like montages that kind of worked him and like cute and fun and go into the like solving problem thing. It's like a nice, kind of quirky way of communicating this information, which is like the majority of the movie is. It's kind of like a bottle, iron lung type situation.

Like, let's just figure this out and make it fun and kind of breezy and go against that. You know, everyone knows this about like an alien, right? Like, it's in the trailers. Like, I don't know how you talk around that necessarily. But I was kind of surprised they showed that in the trailers. at all, but it's like a big part of the movie. It would have been a better reveal if they didn't, yeah.

Yeah, but it's like, so I get why they did it. It's just a part of the marking. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, the way they handle that is fun, like to have a kind of more peaceful alien. It doesn't really have features. It is very similar to the framing of like an arrival, but instead of it being like, terrifying, it's a bit more like friendly and whimsical. I wish that they were,

bit more reserved when it came to the decisions for how cute the sounds of the alien were going to be because it really seemed like that was the goal is just you know make make the cute kind of like R2D2 Wally like almost you know it's not it's not a robot but like in the same vein of like it's it's it's very geared towards the human uh let's say BBS sort of what we find cute. I see where this is going. You know? No, it's, but you, okay, you can't deny that that's what it is, though.

Right? I'm not saying it's bad. He's adorable. He's adorable. He's a little baby. I want to take care of him. A baby and a dog. Yes.

He doesn't know how to hug. He just puts his head up and smashes his head against you. I like that he's actually intelligent, though, too. What is the line that he says? He says, fist me, daddy. no no it's

it's fist my bump that's it fist my bump there you go that's right yeah it's adorable

it's cute okay guys I'm so sorry that you both have no hearts and you have no souls okay this movie is beautiful all right

it's a cute little rock alien And they become friends. And he's a puppet. It's just like everything feels so real and tactile. And he's hanging out with the puppet. And they have a beautiful friendship. And it's like E.T.

And, you know, they play on the references, I think, in a tasteful way. They don't overdo, you know, the references and the omages. And it feels like it does its own thing somewhat. No, it's not a perfect movie. And it has like three endings that go on and on. But I thought it worked really well. you know, Ryan Gosling sometimes verged on a little bit too much

of like the humor and just kind of like not taking it seriously in the first half, but he ends up giving a pretty good performance and it's pretty emotional and cute little alien, he's adorable. What's wrong with you people?

He is cute. Okay, I'll give you that. Look, I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you here. I'm just saying it's not my type of like 10 out of 10. experience. No, no, no. I know what you, I know what you guys mean. I know what you guys mean. Like, yeah, yeah. I'm sure, like, if it hadn't worked on me as emotionally as well as it, as it did,

I would be noticing some other flaws and things I didn't particularly like about the structure or about, like, pushing the sentimentality. But I personally felt like it just wasn't pushed as hard as it could have. And it was always on that border of, like, being a little too much. But, just personally for me, it didn't slip over the edge. And it kind of, once I realized it was kind of like an alien puppet movie, I was like, oh, okay, it feels like a kid's movie or like a family movie. Oh, very much. Yeah.

And once I got into the mode of like, oh, it feels like an 80s E.T. rip off. Like there were like Harry and the Hendersons or all these movies that you saw in the 80s and 90s that were trying to be like E.T. This movie is sort of like that. But with this added element of like incredible visual. I thought, I was just stunned with the visual craft. Like everything feels incredibly tactile. The ship, the way the ship moves in space, I've never seen that like done before.

It was really unique. The lighting in space. I feel like it owes a huge debt to interstellar. I think all sci-fi movies owe a huge debt to interstellar in the way that spaceships are lit and space and framed because it feels so real and like this harsh light. And it's just the wonder and the creativity behind building. this like alien ship and the world and how they're trying to communicate to each other. I just thought seeing the process and like you said, Adam, it didn't feel like, okay, we solve one thing, now we move to the next thing and next thing. It feels like we're building towards some

bigger emotional relationship, which is what the movie's about, the relationship between these two friends. And I thought that it because like, yeah, although it may be an emotional, sappy, whatever movie playing on your emotions, it knows that it's the, and it's doing it so, so well, in my opinion. The craft, everything, it just builds really expertly that I was just like, you know what, I am being manipulated and I don't care. This is working. You know what I mean?

It does do it well. And like I said, there are parts, you know, there are moments in each scene where I'm like, oh, I get that emotion and I feel it. But I wish it just carried for more of the experience for me. And that's not necessarily the fault of the movie. It's, you know, the combination of the movie in my experience and yada, yada, yada. But if one doesn't feel those same feelings, it's not as if there's nothing else to appreciate in the film from like a filmmaking standpoint. But as Alex mentioned, it does feel very long.

Like it feels like 30 minutes could have been cut and it would have been like. Perfect. That's my thing. It ends like three times. 20 to 30 minutes, you know? Yeah. Especially when I look up like arrival, you know, it's under like two hours for how much that film achieves.

I don't know. That's, I see this thing that people love like in there within this two and a half hours. Because it wasn't like a net loss for me. There were loads of scenes I really liked. Or like, as you're saying, like the use of space and some of the visual punchlines. some of these sequences are really memorable and fun and cute like i don't need all my space movies to be like miserable existential like crisis movies um but i feel like for that kind of

peppy tone it's going for like it's a last it's just asking more for that runtime and um i don't how did you feel about that first act in particular the way it was kind of paced and edited because i was finding it was um it was kind of like just moving way too quick in a in a way that it was reminded me the beginning of like Oppenheimer you know that style where these scenes are like super short and it's just like almost like a montage in it itself like the whole and the time going back and structure that it was like really flying through it and wasn't really letting me absorb or sit in the environment too much because it just felt like it had a lot of information to communicate as well as coming back and forth with like the whole framing of like

it's a suicide mission and you know the whole story. the backstory of like why he is there. That's like, how's out of this teacher wind up on this, on this mission and why he's by himself. He had to go together. Yeah, no, I had some issues with the opening as well. I don't know if it was for the same reasons you're attributing. But it did, it did take me like, it did take me at least like 10 minutes to like start getting invested in what was happening.

I was kind of like, oh, okay, being fed information, but not like connecting to it. in an engagement kind of way. But it grew over time and I, you know, it was compelling. It definitely gets better as it goes along. Yeah, especially once, you know, Rocky and that whole element comes into play. That is a cool kind of unique idea that like pacifist alien that wants to work with you. And it is fun like watching the communication into play in the same way is in a rival for like some of the reasons. It's just for kind of like comedy and a familial sincerity.

in a completely different way. Yeah, I mean, I didn't have the kind of issues with the opening as much. I do think the pace was, you know what, it moved along at a pretty good pace. I didn't mind that. And I think that switching between the past and present, you know, helped. One thing that I actually admired about the movie was that I was going to say Chris Pratt, Ryan Reynolds. I mean, it could have been easily. Did you say Ryan Reynolds?

It would have been. Did I say Ryan Reynolds? Ryan Gosling. Oh my God. The movie could have been much worse. It could have been a Chris Pratt movie. It could have been a Ryan Reynolds movie. And we got Ryan Gosling,

which I think is definitely the lesser of evil in this case. Yeah. Like I don't even think that like his comedic moments were conflicting in tone for me. Like, sure. You know, there's a part of my brain that hears the high-pitched scream sort of thing. and associates it with like a Will Ferrell movie or whatever. But at the same time, like, I don't know, maybe there's just a part of me that's just really happy that Ryan Gosling didn't get typecast into this like stoic drive.

Only God forgives, Winding Reffen character. And so when I do see him in comedic roles and when I do see him go for it in this like, yeah, I'm going to scream like a child here, you know, like there's something about it that makes me happy because he pulls it off just as well as anybody else that would be doing that type of role. And he adds more to it in the dramatic moments that, you know, parts where Chris Pratt would not be able to. So no, absolutely. I think he works really well in this mode because it's not just like, he's not just doing like a Ryan Reynolds thing where he's just kind of like, you know, taking the piss out of every moment. He is kind of making himself the butt

of the joke. He's being the doofist, the idiot. And then he can also bring in that emotional range when it's really needed. So, yeah, I can't picture any of these other big stars doing it quite as well in this mode with this type of comedic timing as Ryan Gosling does in this. It could have been much worse. Yeah, no, I like that there are moments in the performance that are clearly also, you know, from the direction or helped and guided by the direction that give off a sense of it not taking itself way too seriously. So when he looks in the camera he's recording and he just nonchalantly says,

so I met an alien. The way he says it, I'm like, that's perfect. It feels like, you know, Lord and Miller injection. You know, it feels like the directors that sense of self-awareness that they bring to a lot of their projects. And yeah, just the way it was performed,

small moment, but it says a lot. And it helps with the more silly aspects of the film to know that it's aware of itself in that way. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that holding off on certain information, especially about Ryan Gosling's character, who is basically a blank slate, we really just know nothing about him except for very few things. And holding off the information of why he is on this mission or how he got on this mission is really important to like the character. arc and it actually had really kind of surprised me. It felt like an interesting moment in the

movie when I was like, oh shit, that's what happened. I don't know. How did you guys feel about that? Oh, the order of information being revealed? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I wasn't like having an, oh, shit moment or anything. So I was kind of ambivalent about whether or not it was revealed earlier late. I was soy facing at the screen and pointing. Oh, cool. Did you like turn, turn back to face the crowd and point backwards to show the soy face like you're doing your thumbnail. And then I said it's epic bacon and then everyone got up and did Gagnum style. Nice. Yeah.

That's cool. Sounds like a good crowd. I have an interesting life. You guys don't even know. Don't know. Don't even know. God, I was like so thrown off by that. Oh.

Um, no, the whole like, uh, the flashback stuff. I, I, I liked how they utilized that Sandra Hula, uh, character. I like seeing her. She had like a pretty decent characterization with like how little she's really in the movie. I like that kind of stuff. And yeah, I'm just in a weird place because I agree there, there are moments. I was never like finding the humor cringe worthy. It just wasn't really speaking to me in a, I don't know, I'm,

I'm not American. Non-American. But that's what's weird though. It's like I- It's literally what it is. Like it doesn't really get more like American with the way they they pulled off like their Lego movie. But the sappy stuff like really worked for me in that movie as did the comedy. I don't know if it's just like the subject matter or if there's something about it's because it's a set-

Spice setting. Yeah, maybe the satire element like this is based on like a book and everything is kind of still serious at the of the day, but it's not a full-on comedy. It's more of trying to find that balance. Maybe it's the more serious side of it that didn't work as well for me. That isn't really as much of a concern in there are the movies. Yeah, I see what you're getting at, Alex, because I do feel like it's a new level or area, territory that the Philor and Christopher Miller are in, where it's like this hope core sincerity. Yeah. Where they haven't really, yeah, this kind of like sincere, like we're being, we're trying to say something. We're trying to do something sincere and earnest here. And it's,

I could totally, I don't, usually that would bounce off me. I feel like movies like everything everywhere all at once. I feel like that's a movie that bounces, that bounces off of me. You know, like I don't, I don't connect with it as much. So. Oh, the sentimental kind of sappy movie too, but that really works for me in that film. Right. Right. Yeah, I don't know what it is. it just I don't know maybe because it's just like about a little baby rock I don't know and that parental you know instinct kicks in like there's just so many moments that feel like really special because of the fact that it's like it feels tactile and real like he's interacting

with a real thing on set like a puppet you know with like everything just feels present in a way you don't feel in the vast majority of modern sci-fi movies. Maybe that's also what kind of got under my skin where I was just watching it going like, I can just really admire like every frame in this movie. And on some level, I'm aware, like, okay, this is a bit manipulative. And I know, oh, we're at this part of the movie. We have to get scared that something's going to happen, blah, blah, blah.

But it just kind of got under my skin and surprised me nevertheless. And then it ended and then it ended and then it ended. And, you know, it could have been a bit more concise in that regard. But then again, I said the same thing on our own review on woman carrying man. And then everyone was like, well, in the book, this actually gets explained. And I'm like, well, I understand it could work well in the book. And these things are explained in the book. And it helps to have this.

But I do feel like a couple of those beats could have been collapsed. or condensed somewhat for the sake of having that emotional resolution. Because at the end of it, it felt like we're given a little too much sweets. We have a little too much cake and we're, you know, a little too much good stuff. Personally. Yeah. That's a good way putting it. I also just, you know, the concept of adapting something into another medium is for it to

be serviceable in that medium unless you're literally marketing it as like supplemental piece to the book or something, right? No, yeah. If it's not in the movie, then it's not in the movie. Exactly. You can't say, well, explain it the book. If you read the project manual. I just want to point out, there's another problem.

There's another weird thing that's like literally only going to bug me is that like, I've seen Ken Lung in enough things, the Asian male, to know that he doesn't. talk like that. And so his like his exaggerated Asian accent it was I don't know if it was that convincing to me and I don't know if it's only because I had seen him in enough other things.

There were moments during the movie where I was like this is kind of odd like almost as if it was like just a white person doing it you know. No comment. I guess yeah I didn't raise that out to me. I'm going to leave you there with that. Sure. I'm just speaking my thoughts.

No, yeah. And I didn't strike. I didn't know. I guess I didn't recognize the actor from other stuff. He's from Saw 1. He's the detective that's not Danny Glover.

I thought he was Danny Glover. No. I think they should have had Danny Glover as the Chinese scientist. He was in old. Yeah, I was going to say, I remember him in old. He was in an episode,

maybe two episodes, but particularly. one episode of high maintenance. Have you ever seen that show? High maintenance? No. It's awesome. Isn't lost as well, right?

Yeah, well, I'm not going to watch that, so. Yeah, I don't, but I've seen that one. Okay, well, um, anything else to say about this? Like, yeah, I agree the effects were great. I also found it very, very notable and admirable. how the movement animation was handled, just conceptualized and brought to life. I think that those ideas for showing something

in a way that feels weird enough to be kind of uncanny, but in the context of it being like a space thing, the uncanny is kind of what you want to do. Like it feels like it's going for like a bit more realism, but that's an assumption because I'm not, a space expert, but, you know, like, it works for what it's doing. And it's really admirable to see things that, you know, are kind of risk taking in a way. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. It still maintain, it was still very colorful and had, like, expressionistic moments that were nice, visually appealing while still kind of getting this realistic aesthetic. Yeah. Honestly, it does, it does kind of feel like a risky. play outside of the popularity of that book. But even then, you still go to translate it and take a swing at this conceit of like a guy and a rock monster kind of like becoming friends. And there isn't really like a mustache twirling villain or anything.

It's just in space and just solving problems. Like it's just like a good story with like two good characters at the heart of it. It just didn't go out of the bounds that I'm looking for really from what I'm looking for this kind of movie personally a lot of good use of like rotation in the like cinematography that was cool and interesting and a lot of good like sequences and kind of storyboarding and visual effects like practical ones and yeah I was just thinking would I rush back and see this no I don't really want to for a while I'm never going to watch it again yeah that's normally like a thing for me um which when I really should be like a mark for this like I do like I do like

love Lord and Miller, love like science fiction. So I don't know. I mean, this would be like a strong three-star with a like. I think it's about what this is to me. But I want to support it and go out there. I saw it on IMAX. And yeah, just wish I had more passion. Cool. Yeah, I'm never going to watch it again, but it was good. I'm glad I watched it in the theater. I went by myself and it was an enjoyable experience. Did feel a little long for what it was, but, you know, I held my pee. I made it to the end. Um, some sappiness.

Tugged at my heartstrings at a couple moments. Also made my eyes roll. Um, but overall, I mean, I would say undebatably. This is, this is like, this, I don't say this often, but this is, we're sounding the alarm because this this film is a Normie masterpiece and that doesn't mean it's bad

it's good it's a good movie but it is like undebatably a Normy masterpiece it's top 250 number 87 right now oh that's insane that's that's egregious but I'm glad we have a siren now

for a Normy masterpiece yeah and I agree I agree with you guys it's an adorable film It kind of left my brain shortly after watching it, but it is a sweet, sentimental movie about how the power of friendship will solve climate change. And we'll just figure it out, guys. Don't worry about it.

We'll find something. Oh, yeah. We don't have to do any big changes. We'll just, like, send a guy. Yeah, a teacher will save the day. Also, let's not fund teachers. I think, you know what? Let's be, let's let people have hopeful moment and be happy and have.

have the power of friendship be strong and all that. It was very sweet. Eight out of ten, Normie Masterpiece. Yeah, I give it a six. Some optimism right now. I don't know if I said my rating. Six out of then. Cool.

Great. Hell yeah. It's a certified Normie masterpiece. Certified Norma Masterpiece. We all agree it's a Norma masterpiece, right? We got stickers, don't we? I literally, yeah, so YMSMurch.com, we got some stickers. I literally was using like a strip of the stickers as like a bookmark for my notes.

And for the first time I was like, okay, yeah, I'm placing the sticker on the page. Like this is undebatable here. I think it's nice. People can buy those stickers and then slap them on their friends' faces. It's cool. Well, consensually, that would be assault otherwise. You know what? I think they should do it.

Not consensually, too. Okay. Yeah. There's a clip. You're getting a spousy quotes this episode. Okay, don't assault people. Don't assault people. I just, I'm feeling, I'm on the fumes.

I'm on the high fumes of Project Hell Mary. I'm like, he's a, okay, anyways, guys, we should move on. All right. We all watched. What, well, that just happened. That just happened? It's called what happened was dot, dot, dot, dot, 1994. Tom Noonan

directed and starred Rest in Peace He passed away recently And he was not He was not in the In Memorium in the Oscars And they did an extra long one

They did This year It was yeah So like let's see If I look up Tom Noonan What day did he They needed to give

Barbara Streisand some time to riff you know, she was riffing on Robert Redford. So he died a full month before the Oscars. So I feel like they had time to include it. Yeah, yeah, no, it was kind of a strange in memoriam because there were

some like really weird crazy deaths, Rob Reiner and stuff. But then did you guys see Jane Fonda says that Barbara Streisand didn't deserve to do the Robert Redford in memoriam segment because she did more movies with him. Okay.

She literally was like, I should have done that. That was not, she shouldn't have done that. I'm on Jane Fonda's side. Sure. This film, the reason why it was on my radar is because I'm obsessed with Charlie Kaufman and I know that this film meant a lot to him. Tom Noonan wound up starring as Sammy and Synecdeke, New York, and also as most voices in Anomalisa. Yes. This film is an adaptation of Tom Noonan's original stageplay of the same name, which makes sense.

It is very like theatrical, theatrical type movie, very stage play type film, single location, conversation. But what was in? interesting to note about it for me was the cinematography was really interesting. I found the visual style of it to use a lot within the limited space, do a lot, communicate a lot, a lot of motivated filmmaking. And overall, I found this to be very enjoyable. What did you think?

Alex, go ahead. It definitely seemed like Charlie Kaufman's favorite movie. it definitely makes sense that he would like this this small intimate really awkward like kind of date movie really the most awkward like date movie ever but yeah I agree

the kind of bookended sequences of like getting into the scenes and setting that production design with these like really blue sets that are in a really interesting way and just focusing on these two lead characters that are yeah it's only just like this one evening it's one one one instance of these two interacting who are like workmates as well to add to the kind of awkward nature of this date and where it goes

but yeah it's funny it's dramatic and reveals a lot about them as characters by this by the time this brief 90 minutes is over but I don't know it didn't feel fully speak to me. I enjoyed my time with it. Didn't leave like the deepest hooks in me, but I thought this was like a solid little drama, awkward and realistic. And some of the, yeah, some of the more spoilery stuff towards the end on like a character level. Some of the weirdest stuff too, the more like surrealist stuff was kind of interesting to me. But what about you, Jake? Oh, I really love this. I, um, I'm, yeah, I'm so happy.

that I watched it. I'd never even heard of it until you recommended it, Adam. And yeah, it was painful. It was like painful to watch. It was like incredibly cringy. It just like an incredible. And it kind of provoked a fight or flight response to me where it's just like, oh, this very attractive woman is like flirting with this guy. And he's just like, hey, I've been, I've been recording our co-workers and I'm writing a book about how lawyers are parasites. You know, like, it was like, oh my God, so hard to watch. Like, this guy is insufferable. And then we learn a little more about her too.

And it's kind of like she's sort of crazy. Like I just loved the weird turns it took that were really unexpected. And I love the cinematography. It looks incredible. It has this great kind of pace where it's just unfolding and you don't really know where it's heading. So while painful and uncomfortable, I was worried. worried. I was worried that it was going to go into kind of a glib, and it definitely could have gone

into like a glib like mocking joke of these people and just kind of like, all these, isn't this guy a lose, like don't these people. So aren't they lame or whatever? And it, it, it avoids that trap. It could have gone into like a joke territory. And instead it became a very sincere, heartfelt, like very moving little piece about like being lonely and trying to find human connection. And I totally get why someone like Charlie Kaufman would really love this movie. It feels like the exact type of themes that he's constantly returning to in his work, just like trying to find ways to authentically connect to people and feeling so completely broken like you can't or it's impossible. Yet yet it's right there in front of you.

You know, it's like you're just denying yourself. So I, yeah, I absolutely loved it. It didn't, it wasn't something that was like revelatory to me. And I feel like it could have done, you know, maybe a little bit more. It did ultimately feel like, yeah, this is something adapted from theater. Definitely. But I also don't really mind that in movies. I love one of my favorite movies is my dinner with Andre, you know.

So it's like, I'm happy. I really liked it and it's I think people should check it out. No, yeah, there's a as a obsessed person with hyper fixations, there are specific moments and lines that really stood out to me as being like, okay, yeah, this is this is a moment that Charlie saw and it resonated with him in a way where it didn't, not. only influenced his work, but likely influenced the trajectory of his life and his, like, relationship with his work, even. I guess we're just going to talk spoilers. How can you really spoil this movie? Right.

Everybody check it out. But there's, you know, like, there's within Tom Noon's monologue at the end, he's talking about wanting to produce art, but like time slipping away and, you know, always feeling like he has to catch up and, you know, kind of just being this lie of a person that has to like pretend to be someone else to, like, exist on a date. Like, a lot of that stuff is in Synecatee, New York. Yeah. Well, I love that whole reveal with him,

with him constantly doodling away in that little pocketbook in that notebook. Yeah. And like where that goes and what they reveals about him as a character. Like that whole rant towards the end, as you're saying, it's like, I'm not even writing. I don't have a publisher. I was like, oh, right, yeah. So you have just been putting on this facade.

I thought I had been way more interesting as a character and a person, especially like the way you would deliver. information is always like so awkwardly like timed in when they're like interacting like oh my god towards the end where he he's like missing all the signals basically and like when he finally figures it out it's like so like it's too late like the moments past was this a date yeah exactly like he's just so like in his own world so that that that like kind of tragic moment where it settles in his head like oh shit i'm just like i just missed out didn't i like a chance of connection right here, oops.

Yeah, the kind of dark comedy of that is enjoyable in a sick way. And also, like, I feel like this is a movie that I'm going to get more out of the more times I watch it, too. Like, there's something really, there's something really striking and intriguing about the decision for Tom Noonan's character to portray so much, like, fear in his face at very specific moments in the film, you know, like when she's reading her story. Not just when she's reading her story because, you know, that has like an entirely different tone and presentation and like shift in sound design and lighting and everything.

But also at moments where like, you know, just while they're on the couch before things get at their most physically intimate before he like puts his hand on her face and they'd, you know, kind of cuddle and kiss or whatever, um, there's like an expression of, of, of like, fear on his face of like an, oh, is this really happening or, um, as if there's, like, some kind of trauma associated with, um, intimacy in his life, you know, like that, that he would need to put up these weird barriers and stories. Um, and then when something's actually happening, he almost can't believe it or might be conditioned into like a repeated pattern of expectations of failure that might be bringing out that type of fear in his performance,

right? Like, it's not just an expression of anticipation for my interpretation anyway. Right. Yeah. There's a, there's a lot going on depending on what types of things you absorb and get out of a movie. Yeah. Both these characters are kind of forms of writers in their own way as well.

So that that contrast is kind of interesting with the way it manifests with him, as I said, like pretending to be this writer. So there's something kind of like hollow about the way he's presenting it. But then she has this bizarre children's story that, what she prefaces it, is it just a children's story that goes into this like really dark and weird like. creative writing, which is just the inverse, basically, of this empty book. So that's like a fun contrast between them. Yeah.

Yeah, and not just a fun contrast in that sense, but like the competing philosophies of how you should share your art, you know, like publishing versus, you know, she just says, like, oh, I just made this copy and there's one for my mom, but I'm not like selling it sort of thing. and him being concerned with almost like an idea of like legacy or like self-worth being attributed to that kind of success. Yeah. Which is made even more interesting by the fact that he is like just full of shit. But still, those competing philosophies exist and get to kind of battle in the film. And hopefully, you know, spark something in the mind of someone.

watching and get them to think about what they want to do with their life and how soon and how much it means to them. Yeah, he's such a sad character, like, and so unlikable, especially in that first half of the movie when he's just, like, judging everything and, like, you know, she's, like, playing music and getting flirty, and he's just like, well, this isn't very, like, this is beneath me. Like, oh, oh, you like the lyrics, like libretto? Like, he's like, he's so, pretentious and and it's frustrating to watch especially when she's like so clearly just trying to reveal anything about herself she's trying to connect with him and putting everything out there and he is unable he just simply cannot let him and then she also gets to a point where it's like

she she has that nervous desperation where it's like that that that clashing personality where someone is so, like, closed up and caged in with someone who is just desperately trying to get approval. And it's so, so hard to watch and uncomfortable. But they perform it so well. And I was afraid what I was afraid of that would happen would be like a glib joke turn of events where when she's reading her story, you start to get a sense of like, wait, wait, wait, is he in danger? Like, she's, what's going on here? And, um, It's really fascinating that I was like, and then she has the knife and she's like, she's getting kind of hysterical and you're going like, wait a second.

Is he going to get murdered? Is that how this is going to end and it's just going to be like, ah, dating sucks kind of movie. I mean, that would kind of thematically point towards like, you know, the concept of fear of intimacy. Right. I mean, it would work, but it would be, in my mind, like just way less memorable. I mean, as it is, it would is what I'm saying. Like those things, even without going into the exaggeration. version of that, the fact that it's like hinting at those things, I feel connects with that as a concept.

Right. There's like this weird, there's this threat, this sense of like we're hitting a fever pitch. And then when they break down, when she breaks down, then he finally has his monologue. It's just so like devastatingly sad and so well done. And his inability then to just like walk out the door and he's just like, you know, let's let's set up another date. come on let's do it like wait a second there's human connection here i just opened like there's something really special here and have i totally blown it and she's just like just ask me again later you know yeah the moment's gone the moment's past yeah no that's a good place to end it yeah yeah also like how they how they accentuate that with the see you at work line as well so like it's like such a cringy gut punch like just to imagine now they've got like lookie look

other in a completely different context. It's just, yeah, I love that point of ending it. And also to add to, you know, not only like their performances, but what the characters are going through, the way that she keeps going back to the alcohol. And you can see very much in this consistent sense of continuity. with the character's performances, she in particular is getting more loose as the night goes on because she wants to, right?

She wants to have herself and him open up more. But the performance of her intoxication, you know, her sobriety or lack thereof, is really, really consistent. And like there's a nice sense of progression and continuity as it goes on and it's performed really it's amazing drunk acting yeah yeah it's so good yeah there's a nice escalation to it yeah really believe it then the pause that get more and more generous as the as the night goes on mm-hmm it's funny to see them sipping away

yeah trying trying to address the like awkwardness or diffuse it in some way yeah and the more you kind of think about it like you retrospectively like I've only seen it once but like it kind of just adds this layer of desperation over the entire thing. You know, clearly you understand where these characters are coming from and what they're doing here or what they're thinking even. It's a very, it's a very thoughtful film. And what I'm just noticing right now is I was going to say, you know, it's kind of like link latery.

This is a year before the before trilogy started also. So like Before the time where it was 1995, this is 1994. Wow, that's interesting. You know, I feel like, I mean, obviously the 90s are great for like indie filmmaking and that whole indie boom. But I do feel like there's something really special

where this movie clearly like because it is shot on film and you had to shoot on film, there's like a certain production value that is unmatched that you just can't approximate, in my opinion. Like you can with, digital filmmaking, but it's, there's simply something like missing when you have, like, I just kept thinking like, okay, yeah, this is shot on film, it's a low budget film, but the lighting,

composition, the way the camera moves so deliberately, it is so, so, so well composed and thought through, like it's just incredibly, um, deliberate, all these choices and you have to make these choices so consciously because you're shooting on, you know, film. And if you go over, you're wasting your whole budget. So yeah, I just really appreciated the craft here. And it also helps, I'm sure, that it started out as a play. And so these actors probably have been living in these performances and in this material for a long time.

So you can have these really beautiful long takes play out, just seeing them interact in the same frame. It's really an underrated part. of like filmmaking of that a lot of times I feel like people dismiss is like well it's not very cinematic just seeing people talk but it can be it can be really uniquely special seeing time pass as these two characters sit next to each other like um letting the performances breathe like I really love that yeah and especially you know if you have any kind of consciousness for like the language of filmmaking and how things the choices for how

things are expressed and how they might be relating to what is being intended by the filmmakers, right? So within the first, I don't know, like 15 minutes of the movie, there's an interesting shot where the, like, the pillar is very clearly separating these two characters, implying that sense of them, despite technically existing in the same frame, there being a very clear barrier between them, right? is that saying about the characters. This is part of media literacy or just literacy in general,

is to at least think about these things, not necessarily agree. When she's first starting to loosen up and she's like on one end of the couch and laughs at a joke, her like head goes on the pillow. And then as she gets back up, she like kind of scoots like a little closer. she uses that like moment of existing motion to like start to get closer to him as the characters are getting closer together in the physical space and emotionally and intellectually connecting closer the camera is moving closer as well it's filling in what would be that that empty space on the sides keeping them tighter right it's complementing it is motivated filmmaking filmmaking which I just love when there's an actual purpose to how things are shot and it's clear to understand and it's not just nonsense, you know. Yeah.

I mean, it's an incredible movie. I wish, like, I had more to say about it. You know, it is kind of like a very, it's such a short, brief movie. And I'm sure there's a lot to dig into, like, thematically. but as much as I did enjoy it, I didn't like, you know, I didn't leave it being like, oh, I'm thinking about this so much the next day.

You know what I mean? Sure. I mean, I'll think about it a lot. I'll probably watch it. Yeah, kind of, for me, just kind of made me want to watch Anomalisa. More like Enormy, Lisa. Yeah.

Yeah, right. You're not into that one, Jake, right? You should recommend it. I don't know. It's got some, like, themes in common. Obviously the Noonan voice and everything. I don't know. That's more like what I'd be looking for if I wanted a slightly higher rating, but I agree with like, I don't know, I still got some pretty like a resting imagery that that framing of when she's reading that book and there's

that little like goose light lamp with the, uh, it's got like a plant around it and with the candles in the background. Some really like cool lighting or that. overhead shot of her in the bed and the pink phone. Oh, hell yeah. Really beautiful shots in there. They're super cool filmmaking in this. Yeah, yeah, a great use of color and everything. But yeah, yeah, I would need just a little bit more like Jake is saying for it to really stick with me.

But I'd happily watch it again. Again, it's so sort of brief. Yeah. I'll stay, it's welcome, so it's easy to revisit. it. Very, very easy to digest and well-paced in my opinion. Yeah, something I really would like too is the sound design, how there's constantly the outside noises. You're really aware of being in the city. You know, like also just getting random shots, or not random, very purposeful and intentional shots of like the other TVs that you can see through the window and like,

they're watching horror movies or they're watching dancing or whatever. And it just gives you a sense of the presence of others, but mediated through like screens, through windows, like you're so, this feeling of being so close to human connection. And she's always talking about, well, I need the view, I need to be around, I need to see people, you know?

And being so close but unable to connect. And even with a person right in front of her, a person she likes, she can't even get him to break down this glass wall. And that loneliness is, just so heartbreaking because she, based on her story, like you can surmise that she's been through some crazy shit, you know, and you really feel for her and like she's on this journey in her life and she thinks like kind of foolishly that this guy is just going to be this kind of like

fantasy, this writer, this brilliant man who's going to like sweep her away and be this intellectual equal. And he just through most of the evening just looks down on her the whole time. And it's just So it's very sad, you know, and he's doing it to himself as well. Yeah, and also, I mean, she also mentions the idea of like no one being an extra, like everyone living their lives just as important simultaneously. And for that to be reflected in the sound design, for there to be that constant reminder of the other existing stories in the universe while these two are trying to form some kind of meaningful connection.

Yeah. And the chaos of the world just kind of continues on. There's like a crying baby and a siren and blasting music. And you can hear someone being like, turn it down. And like, it's really, really cool. And it's a great expression of tone that also very clearly is just trying to get you to think about. what it's saying in context with the story. It adds such a nice, uh, flavor to it.

It would otherwise be not as interesting without those decisions. Still probably likely interesting, but the decisions and inclusion of things like the cinematography and sound design add a lot to the movie. It makes it something very special. Yeah, it really does. It, it's incredibly well. makes me sad that Tom Noonan didn't direct more films because he's, it's like really skilled with the camera.

This was his only like directorial film, right? Like feature. He's got another one that doesn't have that many ratings. The shape of something squashed. The shape of something squashed. I don't know what the heck this is about. It's got 17 ratings on IMDB. Yeah.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so not like a huge director or anything. Apparently not a huge enough actor to be mentioned in a fucking in-memorium at the fucking Academy Award pieces of shit. But I mean, he he created art and expressed himself in ways that connected with at least a few people. and the people that it did,

it meant a lot to them. So that's the best you can hope for. Yep. Thank you, Tom Noon and great film. Yeah, that's good right. Yeah, I would give it in, I'd say eight out of ten right now. It could possibly go up.

Yeah. That'd be slightly lower, perhaps like a high three and a half star seven. Sure. As I say, like, yeah, I probably just lean slightly more towards, what it inspired, I guess. Not to say I wouldn't watch it again.

Yeah, no, I'm feeling a high 8 out of 10 for now, and it's very, very likely that I'll bump it up to a 9. I can see myself watching this again. I'm shocked that there's no 4K Blu-ray, but I'm shocked that this got like a 4K digital at all. It looks very good. Yeah, it does look good. For a movie from 1994 that's like,

well received for that to have less than 3,000 ratings on IMDB. It's like not a very popular film. It's the big Charlie Kaufman lobby trying to, you know. Oh yeah, he's trying to get less people to watch this. Keeping them down. If you look at, so this came out in 1994. In Charlie Kaufman's career, this would have been before he had like made, a feature writing.

So he had written two episodes of a show called Get a Life, like a comedy show. Apparently, writing credits on 18 episodes of something called The Edge, one episode of The Trouble with Larry, whatever the hell that is. And then eight episodes of the Dana Carvey show,

three episodes of Ned and Stacey. And then, 1999, being John Malkovich, his first writing feature, which is pretty fucking crazy. for that to be like your first feature writing credit because the writing in that movie is like you got to be confident in what you're doing, you know?

Yeah. So five years after what happened was coming out is him writing something that it's just, you know, right out the gate, very, very bold and career I don't know if career yeah career defining is I guess appropriate but not I don't know

is it very very monumental yeah I would say so yeah yeah this is great I'm I'm really really happy we watched it thank you Adam

yeah glad you both enjoyed it I wish I could get a 4K Bluray but it's 4K on digital instead So I'll just get a regular Blu-ray Whose wreck is it this this week? I don't know, we still haven't done questions Oh, I know, I know

I'm just, I want to prepare if it's my rec. Well, let's see. It's my wreck. Oh, no. Yeah, I don't think it's me. Why are you saying, oh no? Because. Okay, well, fuck.

Well, whatever. Let's do some questions. Let's do some questions. Don't stress me out. Let's do some questions then. from the Saddamas community. Head over to the suggestion thread over on the subreddit. If you'll leave questions for future episodes,

just like Joe Windle-Brocks did, who can start us off here. What's the first reality show you got really into, if anything, excluding Beast Games? That's going to be my answer. Oh, God. I just had a memory pull. I just like to try to avoid.

them but um as a kid i guess there was some big reality shows like the uk's good at creating like horrifying reality shows um like x factor i guess like in the early 2000s that was a big deal you know like like shrek too like on the DVD had like a parody of x factor like Simon cow was on it and stuff like it's not really how it is anymore but um yeah shit like that like you know the The British version of Jerry Springer was this guy called Jeremy Kyle. I remember seeing some of those, but it's like over the years,

you look back and it's like, wow, this is like evil. And he's been like investigated and everything. It's like, how do we ever like let this shit? Like people watch this? This is completely unhinged. But then stuff I look back on like fun days,

more like, I watched Takeshi's Castle a lot. That was pretty fun. Nice. That was pretty wild. But as an adult especially, like, I'm mostly just disgusted, but like reality TV shows, like Love Island and stuff like that. And the United States government.

Well, like, what about you guys? Just life. The reality show of life. Well, so the question was, what was the first? Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Like, what go you into it?

What was the first thing you saw? that first episode of Jeremy Kyle or Factor or whatever. The first would be murder in small town X. Murder in Small Town X. Which premiered in 2001 and I watched it. It was on

like basic cable and I was 10 years old I guess and I was I remember watching it like at like my parents cabin or whatever where like we didn't even have cable. So it was like antenna when I say basic cable.

Yeah. One of the one of the two channels or whatever. And it's a it's a fucking game show that's like a reality show and a murder mystery thing all in one where they're like, all right guys, contestants. There's like a killer that's in this town. And they said that if you'd get, do a game show about it. and you are able to solve the clues, then that's a good thing. And they won't do bad things if we do it the other way. I don't remember how they justified it.

But the entire, from what I remember, this is me at 10 years old. So I don't know if this is completely accurate. But from what I remember, the presentation of this show, it basically tried to pretend as if it was real in probably trying to leach off of the success of things like Blair Witch. project where it's like, oh yeah, we could just pretend it's real. And as far as I know, the contestants were real people doing like murder mystery nonsense, but like the killer wasn't real. And so at the end of every episode, basically based on how people did well in any game, they would get like two people that are like potentially on the chopping block and they would get them to show up at two different locations and like the camera,

I don't know if they had a rig or if they were just holding a handycam filming themselves. There were probably hidden cameras there too or whatever. I don't remember. But they would film themselves and go to a place like alone at night and either look for clues or be murdered, but neither of the two of them knew which one it was going to be. And so obviously in the show,

instead of showing a real murder because real murder didn't happen, it would just be like, ah, they scream because someone's there and goes boo or whatever, but, you know, they scream and then like cut the feed and all the other contestants are like,

oh, I guess Jessica's dead or whatever. And it's like, I wonder how in on it the contestants were probably, like, probably to a great degree, but the, the screams were genuine. Like, they were, you send someone, like, in the middle of the night, even just on the premise of, like, this larping pretend murder mystery, let's say. Like, you're going to get people that are, like, terrified, not knowing whether or not they're getting, like, people are terrified in haunted house simulations, knowing that all of that's

fake. But the way they presented it, 10-year-old me was, like, Are they actually killing people? And so I was invested. And then the winner of the show died in 9-11 a week after the finale end. What? Yeah, he was a New York firefighter. Oh, shit.

All right. RIP. Yeah. I guess my first, like, reality show was like, I'm probably like American eyes. That was a huge deal. I remember watching those first few seasons when I was a kid. Everyone was watching American Idol.

I mean, it was the first reality show where they realized they could just get a bunch of bad singers that people would dream on. Yeah. Yeah. William Hung released a fucking album. It was crazy. I remember people were like rushing home from like work to watch American Idol and you just don't see that any like.

what a crazy phenomenon that was. Simon Cowell's nipples just poking out there every episode. That's not appropriate. Yeah, people don't give it shit about that anymore. Like, they tried to release a new one recently, right? Like Simon Cowell on Netflix. No one gave a shit. It was like a boned.

I mean, yeah, in terms of like the culture talking about it, but still today, like almost every fucking contestant show there is, is you've got to blame American Idol for it. You know, whether it's like X Factor or who's got talent or the masked singer. Like these are all things that exist because of the success of American Idol from my understanding. So in a way, it's like it's still kick in. That's true. That's true.

Thanks, Simon. Just there's a lot of them. Yeah. Well, this is reminding me. I saw a bunch of like in the early 2000s. my mom was always watching America's Next Top Model. So I remembered a bunch of it and I saw this documentary came out recently about that show. I was like, again, watching it with these eyes of like an adult.

Like, dude, stuff that was included in some of this reality TV, not even that long ago, was like so immoral and disgusting what it was doing to these like random mostly like poor people that they've like plucked from around the world. Oh, that's happening today. Yeah, yeah. It's just, man, what are like grotesque industry, you know? I mean, it's, it's, uh, the American dream. It's like, I don't know. Let's, let's televise what's happening every day with, like, gambling, basically. Yeah, and you see it all the way to, like, I guess the modernized version of it is, like, YouTube shorts, you know,

where it's like a guy with a water cash going up to a homeless person and doing something like that for attention. You know, one of the funniest immoral reality shows is there's a show called Temptation Island. And the premise is they get these young and dumb like hymbo-bimbo couples that love each other very much, allegedly and obviously they you know they select the people who probably have like the most toxic traits that they can find in the application.

Oh yeah. And then they're like, okay, well, your love's going to be put to the test and they'll separate the couples and there's like a bunch of different teams of couples basically. They'll separate them so that like, oh, these. These girls are now hanging out with these other guys and they're all just like conventionally attractive people. The producers are feeding them as much alcohol as they possibly can throughout this entire experience.

Like oh, we're on a beach and I have, and like the, you know, all of the scheduled mini games is like, oh, you're on a boat and like, you know, just all these like different environments, you know, give them privacy, blah blah blah. The goal from the producers is to get all of these people to cheat on their like husband, wife significant other, right? That's the goal. And so, and so if someone does something like, okay, six drinks in, one of the guys is like, show me your butt or whatever. And she might like look backwards and like bend over, do something like a little flirty. But she's like with the girls and it's like, it's okay, I'm having fun. You know, she forgets for a moment that she's on a

show where they're trying to like make her cheat on her significant other. Then they'll take that footage, show it as removed from context as possible to the significant other in like a bonfire little setting at the end of the night. And be like, did you see what she did? And not explain anything surrounding it. And then that person will go, well, she's just cheating on me. Then I'm going to have to cheat on her to feel better about it. And these, like, the dumbest people on the fucking planet just miserably crying. What I would recommend for anybody that finds this remotely intriguing,

watch the first bit of each episode because they basically just recap, like, what happened on the previous. So you don't have to be bored to death by all the nonsense. Just watch the first bit of each episode where they recap. And you'll see hilarious compilations of like, oh, she loved me. Like just drunk idiots the entire show. I find that incredibly immoral because it's like they're like children basically. You know, they don't know any better. They literally just found the dumbest most toxic people and ruined their relationships.

And that's the premise of the show. It's hilarious. It's very funny. Why don't you go in one of those shows out? Because I'm not dating anyone. Oh. But you don't have to be dating anyone. You can just do it.

Every reality TV show that I watch that has like any kind of competition element, competitive element at all, I look at that and go, I would be eliminated immediately because I stand out and I'm different. And what's the first thing they fucking do? What's the first thing the normies and neurotypicals do is they single people out and they go, oh yeah, okay. That person, I don't trust him. got to go. It doesn't matter what the content of their character is like, I would be gone. I would not do well in any of those shows. If it comes down to somebody voting someone else out, I'm gone. Right. You'd just be on the zip line the whole time. I was only there for the zip line. Yeah. Well, speaking of these game shows, actually, TC Drum has one.

with Screen Junkies YouTube channel behind Honest trailers now reviving movie fights back from the grave Would either of you guys do it if asked Or would you only do it if all three of you can play at once? I know Adam has done it before And seem to have a somewhat positive experience And I imagine it'll be more fun

If all of you did it Thanks for all the laughs and recommendations over the years You know movie fights I've seen the one with you on I remember when you went on it I used to watch that a bunch Like way back in the day I have no idea what this is.

The company that is responsible for honest trailers, have you ever seen honest trailers? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so they had a program called movie fights. And in some ways it's kind of akin to it's teetering the line of what red letter media are making fun of with their nerd crew thing. You know, type vibes. But the premise of it is like, ding, ding, ding. Like, they have the sound effect for the boxing bell. And you're supposed to duke out your opinions on the movies that are, you know.

It's what we're doing on this podcast except less sincere. And the reason I say less sincere is because if the premise of the episode is best film of 1985, and you're asked like several different questions throughout the episode, if your favorite film is already chosen by somebody else, you have to choose a different one. And then it's like, okay, then what's the premise of this segment? I'm advocating and arguing for a position I don't believe. Then it's just like, okay, debate squad sort of thing. But I would rather see something more authentic would be my biggest problem.

Yeah, it was very like over the top, like an over the top panel show that was pretty short as well. You didn't have much time. if anybody wants to see my appearance on movie fights and you don't want to watch the whole thing skip to the fight that was about who should play the new john mclean in diehard because i think that's my best that's that's the best segment would you say c p i won't i won't spoil it okay it's really good actually i'll listen to that yeah It's not really my skill set, so I don't know if I need to be on movie fights. I'll leave it to Adam.

It was an interesting experience. It was kind of cool to be in the environment of still early-ish YouTube, but in L.A. at this place that was already like a company, you know, and they were already owned by a larger company. Yeah, they were spending a lot, right? It had like a, yeah, had like a big studio. and like loads of employees and yeah yeah yeah some drama and yeah it was it was very odd seeing seeing it was it was like the beginning of me being like oh okay so youtube is like a money

thing yeah i don't really get why that always has to be the shape well i do get why but it's just i don't know they will fall into the same issues like like uh honest trailers or um rooster teeth to a certain degree where they just grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, and then, like, just can't sustain it at a certain point where it's like, well, if you just kind of kept this nimble and, like, making honest trailers and, you know, had a little other shows on the side, maybe, like, the scale thing, I just don't understand. And then they just, like, used to themselves alive. Yeah, but they just, like, never works out, though, like, long time, but ever. What? Yeah. And then it just comes back to like,

oh, Smosh had to like re-buy themselves, rooster deat, like, we're starting again. That's like, so goofy. I think our global population can hit at least a hundred billion. And then keep going. I don't see any end in sight for anything. My life spans only 80 years, maybe. You're going to live to 120.

I can feel it. I'm going to live to 6-7. That shouldn't be allowed on this podcast. Okay, yeah, but if it happens, do you know how fun that clip will be in 30-2-half years? Okay. Someone's going to save that clip. I'm so cooked. I shouldn't be laughing at this shit.

But no one's going to get the joke by that time because it will just be completely irrelevant culturally. Damn, that's going to remember. Hey, I mean, you know, we record these in advance. I mean,

I feel like we're always, at least Alex is always predicting crazy shit that that's going to happen. So Alex, is something crazy going to happen in the next week and a half? The six,

seven water wars. Yeah. The six seven water wars? 2067. Wait, what? Like, like water world?

It's either going to be like, yeah, water sports. 20, six, seven or like the sixth or seventh month or maybe the sixth day of the seventh month. Oh, okay. That's when, that's when nukes are used. Well, fuck.

I look forward to it, Alex, thank you. And I'm going to stop asking you to predict things from now on. Yeah. Because it's scary, very scary. Oh, well, why don't you just, Alex, you could just say everything will be great for the next. Oh, yeah. I predict everything is going to be awesome. But whose version of awesome?

Like yours or like Hitler? Mine. So it's going to be. Okay, thank you. You're just doing the Lego movie. I'm going to assume your version of awesome is not the same as Hitler, so I think we're good. Yeah, that's a safe bit. Well, you know how they say about assuming things, it makes an ass out of,

the podcast. Do we have another question? We could do another. Yeah, let's do this one from Goosey McGooseface 2. Okay. Did you sell like this is a re... I feel like this person asks a lot of questions. That's okay.

Well, apparently they just ask a lot of good questions. Apparently, yeah, yeah. Because like there's a lot of questions. We don't hit all the questions. Alex is curated. There's a small handful of like people who get the good ones. Yeah. Yeah.

And this one got like the updates, you know? But yeah, Goosey McGooseface says, Did you start to see the new Louis Thruh documentary on The Manosphere? What's some of your favorite Louis Thruh documentaries or moments? So this is making a big splash in the UK. I'm just online generally, I think. Louis Thruy's latest. I think this is his first Netflix documentary.

He's had his show on Netflix, I think, before. But produced by Netflix. And yeah, I don't. I don't think it's his best work, but I'm trying to figure out how I feel about it with the balance of teaching people of like a certain age, like that this even exists and like kind of educating people on it as an issue. Because I'm not really the target audience. Like I didn't really learn anything about this because I already know about like this space

and everyone in it, you know, you're like sneakers and these weird TikTok freaks. So how much of it is like helpful for? them, you know, these people that like get this attention and money and no such thing as like bad press in a way. I've got like a Netflix show now. Come and watch fresh and fit now on kick or whatever they stream on. But yeah, I like Louis for the most part. I think it gets into some of the key issues and it kind of surface of a way. I'd like to see more of like the the impact of the people that actually watch this shit more so than

trying to delve into these Manosphere characters because they were just kind of kind of boring and the same at a certain point. They were just Andrew Tate copycats. They will have the exact same like business model and they were the same they will have like the same daddy issues basically.

I mean yeah there's a there's a reason why it's it's it's not an unreasonable debate to to not have children on the internet at all, right? Yeah. Yeah, like what, Australia? They banned like 16 year olds and lower.

You take kids off the internet. These these dudes don't have an audience. Yeah. This is literally just like the current year's version of girls have cooties. They do. And we're better. They do. I don't think it's like, I don't know, it feels more extreme than that.

Oh, yeah, no, it's the current version of it. Right. But it's like, it, if you were. were to take an adult who sincerely has that position and is just rephrasing it, then you get the Andrew Tate folks. Right. It's bad. And there's a reason why it appeals to, like, children.

It's crazy that we're just kind of seeing it happen and have to respond reactively to it. I wonder what the correct solution is. I think that we should just be online even more, you know, and then we just get used to it. And, you know, my issue with the whole Louis Thoreau thing is that I feel like he's just, you know, he's just cherry picking. A lot of these Manosphere guys are good people, you know, I know a lot of them, and they have a lot of good points. I feel like clavicular is kind of like, I don't know, I've learned a lot. I'm just saying, I'm just saying, I've learned a lot from them. Let's not dismiss looks maxing entirely.

I mean, there's some negative sides to the Manosphere for sure. Andrew Tate is not a good guy but if I'm gonna if someone's gonna tell me to smash a hammer to my cheekbones I'm gonna listen to them because that sounds really cool and badass honestly like you're miming on clavicular

but he's not even mentioned in this one because it just moves so quickly like these new characters like appear like every few months it's a new guy of the week yeah yeah because their audience grows up and it's a new audience every fucking few years. Yeah.

They turn from 14 to 15 and then they're done. Yeah, and yeah, I know it's crazy. I didn't watch the whole thing because I was just kind of like busy doing stuff and my roommate was watching it and so I would like peer in on interesting moments. Yeah.

And like his perspective was also like, yeah, it's not his best but still watchable. It seemed like something that would be really, really eye-opening to people that didn't know that this was a thing. Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly right. Like grandma. Yeah, like parents.

Democrat grandma. Yeah. Yeah. People who aren't like necessarily terminally online. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think it's his best work. I think his older stuff, I think, in general, is a bit more up my alley. His weird weekend stuff in particular when he was going to like prisons was

really interesting and most hated family and that kind of stuff. Yeah, I'll watch anything he does. To be clear, I didn't watch it. I did not watch it at all. I saw clips online and I only know Louis Thoreau from my money don't dribble, dribble. Oh, God. Are you sure you're not a zoomer culturally as well? You know, maybe a little bit.

It's in there. I still maintain I'm silent generation physically. Okay, I thought you're a boomer physical. No, well, after sitting here for a few hours, I think it's more like silent. But no, I mean, I like seeing his face. He's got a nice, warm attitude. I saw a clip of him talking to this guy in the manosphere, and he's talking to his wife. And she's just, he's just like, hey, are you okay?

He says he wants to have other wives down the road. Are you okay with that? And she's clearly not at all. And it's like, oh, wow, a person actually treating her like a human being. And the guy, her husband just doesn't know how to, like, function. He's just like, hey, go go do this thing for me. Go do this. It's like, it's really depressing.

But it's like, like you feel for like what possibly, you know, how are these women getting connected to these guys and why are they, you know, and you feel a lot of, you know, sympathy for whatever reason. You know, they got involved with these assholes. Like, I don't know. It's weird. But I should watch it. I'll check it out. I feel like the whole internet is obsessed with Manosphere and it's just like clavicular

and all this like these new freak shows every second It's just like are we giving them too much attention at this? But like I don't know it's yeah, that's my fear like a way of talking about them in a way that is productive without just giving them just entertainment you know more entertainment Yeah, it's sensationalized I do I do like Louis's approach to interviewing though like I'll watch anything he does I love seeing someone that just basically let someone talk and is effective enough at having people let their guard down enough.

So there's different degrees to which that will happen depending on the subject or depending on the project. But yeah, like most people he interviews, it seems, don't even sense that like he's not on their side. even like you'll ask questions right like fucking westboro baptist church let him in and like it was pretty clear that they were combative but you know there's there's tons of examples of people just there's a viral clip of him talking to Israeli settlers and he literally just lets them talk and like yeah you know just dig themselves into a hole and it's wild you're just like holy shit yeah exactly they bury themselves with their own words yeah yeah let people say shit that like they would say if they're not afraid to say it sort of thing.

If they weren't on camera, it's kind of like Nathan for you almost. I would say, you know, regardless of what anybody thinks about Channel 5, Andrew Callahan, like he does a lot of that.

Like, he's very inspired by Louis Thoreau for sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you can tell. Like, he just kind of lets people talk and ask questions

and tries not to, like, be so obviously, uh, he's, they both do a thing where, like, you can tell a lot of other journalists are so tempted to make it so much more clear that they don't support whatever the thing is that they're showcasing. They both do it in a way that's, like, much more subtle, but like anybody with any comprehension skills can tell that, like, they're not, you know?

But, yeah, that temptation kind of, like, ruins your ability to get the story or get the clip or get the interview in a way. So, like, I much prefer their style of doing it. Yeah, for sure. His, uh, he did two episodes on Jimmy Saville, which are quite interesting. I know. The original one in particular, um, before it was all kind of known. It was really weird to watch now.

Yeah, I bet. Yeah, he's got a big body of work, like a stuff to, he's got like six a year. You can watch them forever. Yeah. I hope that this Netflix thing gets, uh, more projects. of his off the ground and he can just do whatever he wants. Yeah, although that is one thing I will say with the editing and actual production of the doc.

There is a thing with specifically Netflix documentaries, the way they put them together are ironically very YouTube video-like. Like the pacing of them, the graphics and the movement of everything and like the music use and everything. It's like very, I don't know, over the top. And like YouTube, they got to capture you in the first 30 seconds. Exactly, yeah.

It feels like they have, yeah, they're kind of like tweaking their content for their algorithm to make sure you don't look away. You absorb the information in a certain kind of delivery, which was kind of a bit of a bummer to me because, I don't know. that he is so reserved so I liked that kind of reserved style of like his older stuff but I guess that's just me being old man yelling at a cloud no I know exactly what you mean because I had the exact same issue with the Netflix uh David Attenborough yeah uh stuff like it's like the just the music is not the same as the BBC symphony orchestra I'm sorry like I can I can see what you're trying to do but it's

Not the same caliber at all. I just can't even watch it. It sucks. Still kicking. Turning 100 in me. Unbelievable. Isn't that crazy? Yeah.

You can do it. You can do it, buddy. One hondo. Yeah, okay. He was knighted twice? Double night. That's pretty badass. Oh, my God.

You can be knighted twice. I guess I never thought about it. Are we still talking about Jimmy Saville? yes United twice I wouldn't be surprised he probably was too honest yeah

sorry I'm I'm frantically trying to find a movie to recommend so oh okay well you can take your time to think about it no no no I have to I've got to be on it you know okay well okay I'm just gonna if this is going to help you

at all I just like I still would prefer not a very very long or double feature if you can help it because I'm like moving. So if that can help. Okay. Yeah. Because my first,

that's what was the first thing. I have, you guys know, I have an idea for doing a big thing. Yeah, next time should be good. Next time. And a half from now.

I'll do it next time. It'll be a treat for the, for the folks at home, hopefully. Thank you. Appreciate it. But so are we done with questions? Sure.

Sure thing. Okay. So. I feel like we have been we've been spoiled We've been watching too many good movies Okay, and I'm not This is genuinely not a spite recommendation

Because I think it's going to be very fun Because I don't think either of you have watched this movie And it was kind of a big meme briefly Last year, Or two years ago or something And it's a Netflix film And it is called Uglies Have you guys heard of it?

Yeah, that's been on my list. I haven't seen it. Okay, okay. Yeah, I've heard of it. Yeah, this could be fun. Okay, perfect. You guys haven't heard of it. Oh, I love Joey King. Okay.

No, I heard about it. Yeah, no, Joey King's hilarious. Oh, it's McG as well. Let's go. This is, okay. See, this is not a spite wreck because I think you guys will genuinely have a really fun time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is not a spite wreck at all.

Yeah, yeah. It's a very funny movie. Directed by MCG. Yeah, McGee. Yeah, McGee, dude. Who the hell's that? He didn't do that. He did like a Terminator movie.

Like one of the Charlie's Angels. Like, yeah, he's been about a not notable Terminator movie. A Charlie's Angel's sequel. Yeah. Full throttle. Okay. Yeah, uglies. Yeah, it'll be fun.

Muchie. Sure. No, yeah. This is, this is something I wanted to watch anyway. Perfect. So. Oh, yeah. We're all getting along.

No, no hostilities. We're maintaining the piece. No, yeah. We're happy. We're getting ugly. We're getting uglies. Perfect. If you don't want to be spoiled for Ugly as directed by

McGuG-MUG-G-E-A-MUG-G-E-A-G-G-E. Yeah, watch it before the next episode comes out. These episodes come out every two weeks. You can listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com. Sign up for premium. It's only a few bucks a month. Or patreon.com slash sardonicast. It'll get you the same thing.

Or click the join button below. Membership will get you episodes early also. their ad free idiot you're listening and you're like oh i'm getting all these ads yeah well fucking sign up for premium usually it's not customary to call our viewers idiots but you don't know my audience they're obedient they're obedient i'm the princess of canada remember i forget yes you are indeed thank you i appreciate the affirmation there uh we also have a sardonicast channel, check that out. The Normie masterpiece sticker sheet,

YMSmerch.com, we might, I'm going to be changing like merch things as soon as the guy that is helping me with merch stuff is free enough to help me because the overhead costs for Shopify or too much. I can help you with that too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll put you guys in touch if I have an L rate.

we'll see any the normie masterpiece sticker sheet might be different later I don't know maybe it'll be better different and better it'll be better bigger and better but if you want

the exclusive old version you'll never see again you gotta get it now guys 2026 is going to be crazy Sardonicast's year you know we're getting the huge it's the year of the horse billion dollar Spotify deal

We're going to be on Netflix. Oh, yeah. We're getting a better deal from Spotify than Joe Rogan never got it. Yeah, even better. We're coming for you, Rogan. And we're going to do so many ads. So many ads. Okay.

AI ads. Oh, yeah. No, name a product. We're going to do an ad. It's going to be AI Alex doing all the AI ads. We're going to do ads for the concept of ads. I actually wouldn't mind that. That's what we're doing right now.

Yeah. True. A ad here type ads, yeah. Yeah. Guess who's paying us? Jeffrey Epstein Oh well What?

I mean that's where all of our tax dollars are going If you think about it I'm trying to say 2026 is going to be a great year For the podcast And Adam is saying that Jeffrey Epstein Is funding us so you know I had to mention him again

Conflicted messages Right he has to be mentioned To the episode now I didn't say he's funding us I said we're funding him We know The Princess of Canada would not stand for that.

Just saying. The Princess of Canada is not in the Epstein files. That's reassuring. Unlike another royal family. Yeah, true. All right. All right, have a happy, happy uglies, everybody. Ugly's hype.

Happy uglies. Have a happy royal family, everybody. Oh, my God, I'm so excited. Thank you so much. Bye-bye. Holy shit. Bye, everybody. Bye.

Bye.