Sardonicast - Sardonicast #27: Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man Trilogy

Episode Date: February 13, 2019

Special thanks to Evan Johnston and RwAoNrDdOsM for helping with the audio issues Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Merch: https://shop.ritualnetwork.com/collec... Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/9vG73zS Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthe... Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovi... Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkind... Fanart: https://twitter.com/ianlee92/status/1... https://twitter.com/RunTheJorges/stat... Timestamps: 00:27 - Intro 06:00 - The Amazing Spider-man 13:20 - The Amazing Spider-man 2 42:04 - Spider-man 1:03:50 - Spider-man 2 1:29:30 - Spider-man 3 1:01:14 - Q&A Alex's Recommendation for next episode is... Madagascar 2.

You guys aren't gonna believe it. My audio is messed up again. Ralph messing up his audio, no way. So because of some really specific technical problem that's very hard to explain, my recording is all glitchy. We sent the audio file over to Elon Musk, and he did his best to fix it. But there's only so much he can do. So yeah, sorry about that. Uh, bye. 3, 2, 1. So the reason why that was played off my phone, and not an impression it's because

coming up to it I just I couldn't do it I couldn't fucking stomach it there are some things that just make you feel way too cringy or not to see you try doing it no no you should have done it

can you not do the I'm back again it makes me so uncomfortable we're sardonic cast everybody let me introduce ourselves the episode

the whole no we're not restart the episode the episode because if I start the episode like that then people will just leave people who have never heard our podcast before will be like ah just irritated turn it off like if they haven't already but let's introduce ourselves first and then I'll

give it a shot but I won't feel proud of myself this is Sardana cast I'm Adam from your movie sucks I'm Ralph from YouTube.com slash Ralph Movie Maker and I'm Alex from IE

Ugh Hey everyone This is Joe for Joey's super cool food reviews I'm big It's so early It's so early I'm back Let's hear your

I'm back Let's hear your I'm back My voice is great Now come on I'm Beke Go on

What did I agree to this Fuck that I can't even though I don't remember I'm I'm Beek Go on

It's not hard All right It's just Okay. Everyone's going to be really pissed at you and that's your fault, so whatever. Yeah, that's all right. That gets me. He's used to it.

Yeah. It's just past 11 a.m. And I feel very tired. Oh, it was 11 a.m. and you're tired. Yeah, I know. Well, you know, um, probably like actually midnight, but it's not, it's never like consistent sleep. I don't know. it's like broken up.

I had so many fucked up weird nightmares and I think it's also because the heat in my house isn't working properly so I'm wearing a jacket right now but I'm tired we're all we're all feeling fine and dandy here on the most happiest

exciting podcast that has ever been created of all time I haven't been feeling great recent I want to know why? Yes. Why? I caught a disease.

For real. You ever had a born home disease? You ever heard of this? I have no idea what you're talking about. Your boy got born home disease. What the fuck are you talking about? It makes it so really hard to breathe. No, I'm serious.

I'm not joking. Can you spell it out? I don't know what you're saying. E-O-R-N, like baby being born. Born. Then H-O-L-M. Born home. Really difficult to say.

Okay. Yeah, Google it. It's real. Very sorry. It's real. You have it? Genuinely thought I was going to die. Jesus.

It's gone now. Because it's, yeah. That's sad. It's gone now, but it was nasty. It was nasty. No, it was only four days or so. Yeah, it can last like a few weeks, but luckily I got a good immune system, so it got poo-poot away, but.

So you just like couldn't breathe first few days or what? Well, it's like you could, I could only breathe extremely shallow breaths. Oh, which. If you wake up and then suddenly it hurts to take anything deeper than, you know, the most shallow breath possible. It's a bit of a panic moment. Jesus. Jesus. Yeah, nasty.

I've never heard of that before. That's horrific. I'd never heard of it, but my dad happens to be a microbiologist and was like, oh, those are the symptoms of this really obscure disease. Wow. I was like, oh, shit, yeah. How do you think you got it? Rolling around. It's the same way you get any virus or infection.

Yeah. It's probably, you know, buying a carrot at the supermarket. Oh, yeah. Fawking carrots. That's crazy. Nope. Just fucking carrots. Always do it.

Okay, move on. Yeah. No, that was interesting. Well, yeah. Get to know you're not dead yet. Yeah, I'm happy you're not dead, Alex. You'll get me one day. Yeah, it'll get all this one day.

You'll get born home before you know. We all, so basically, we all watched the Spider-Man movies. And usually for the podcast, we wait until, you know, further into the episode to talk about them. But there's three different movies. And also, we kind of want to talk about the amazing Spider-Man movies. So we figured we'd just jump right into it. Apparently Ralph re-watched the Amazing Spider-Man film. I rewatched the second one because it's hilarious.

I don't think Alex rewatched either of those, but he definitely watched the... No, I'm very familiar with them there. Yeah, he watched the Ramey trilogy. We've all seen them a few times. Yeah, so why don't we start? I guess Alex and I will just talk from memory about the amazing Spider-Man film. But Ralph, why don't you introduce it? I guess we're going to say spoiler warning for all of these, by the way.

Yeah, for all of them. What do you want me to say that? They're terrible. I just watched them to confirm that the San Rangy ones were better. And yeah, they're 100%. Way, way better than Mark Webb's. Do you think Sony hired Mark Webb because of his name? 100%.

Why else? That's the only reason. He's a terrible director. He's never made a good movie. That 500 Days of Summer movie is like the corniest fucking bullshit I've ever seen. and I hate David. It's a Spider-Man movies. I hate them. They're so bad

and corny and poorly made and they lack none of the style or the charm of those original movies at all. The writing is awful. The villain was terrible. Just everything about. But it's a lizard man. Such a shame.

The lizard could be kind of cool, I guess. Actually, that's the thing about Spider-Man. He has some goofy-ass villains. So if you don't have a goofy tone or like some kind of visual flare going on, it is really hard to pull off these characters. Especially someone like the lizard. It was way too serious.

And Peter Parker was so not Peter Parker. He acted like some like he was too hot. He was too hot. He had cool hair and on the skateboard. No, it wasn't nerdy at all. Toby McGuire is a fucking dork in those Starved band movies. And Tom Holland saws a well.

Well, yeah, Tom Holland's the one that looks most like a young person, most like a kid. So it kind of works. Yeah. Yeah. He's like a combination. He takes the best parts of both. He's like a realistically kind of dorky, but a bit hot kind of guy, you know? Yeah.

Whereas the other two are a bit too far in each direction. Yeah. Tell me McGuire's ugly. Is that what you're trying to say? Yeah. We'll get into that when we talk about this. But yeah. Stop saying that, it's very mean.

Oh, we'll stop at the end of the podcast. Okay. I don't remember too much about the first Amazing Spider-Man because it was, like, so boring. I consider the second one to be just absolutely hilarious. All I remember about the first one is the, the tape or whatever on his camera that said, property of Peter Parker

and that was the plot device because the lizard found the camera and it was like oh it has Peter Parker's name on it now I know his camera this is this kid who's supposed to be like a scientific genius yeah literally left his name on it

and yeah I mean I like the lizard dude but that's about it you like him not his character the aesthetics he has the worst motivation it's like I want to turn everyone in the city into the lizards. I know.

Why? Because my arm didn't grow. Yeah, why? That's so dumb. Yeah. You know the one scene I remember there. One thing I remember about that first Amazing Spider-Man movie is, it really encapsulates what they got wrong with it.

It's that bizarre scene where epic, cool, hot Spider-Man is kind of figuring out his powers while Coldplay is playing in the background. he's skateboarding around like a warehouse. That scene sucks. Yeah. There seems to be a lot of cross-promotion brand opportunities and shit. The Amazing Spider-Man films. It's like Sony just they couldn't even dial it back a notch.

And in Amazing Spider-Man too, it gets so much worse. But, yeah, the reason why I didn't watch the first one again is because it's just like, waste of time boring yeah what's the point like there's it's not a fun experience like I would put everybody in the room to sleep if I put it on yeah

that sounds just so late to keep the rights to Spider-Man as far as I know because you have to do something with property every once in a while otherwise you lose the rights yeah yeah I think it was something like that movie and it totally feels like a movie that was made for that reason

because it's just how bland it is It wasn't like Spider-Man 3 didn't make money, though, was it? So that was literally it. I mean... Yes, but just those originals are so stylish and fun. And the music is great. And then the music in the Amazing Spider-Man movies is the blandest fucking temp music you can imagine. Yeah.

Well, I mean, in the first movie, it was pretty bland. Yeah, the first movie is pretty bland. The second movie is downright awful with the Farrell Williams. Yeah. About rapping. And, like, it's crazy. Let's section this off. Let's stop talking about the first Amazing Spider-Man.

What are your ratings for that film from memory? And then we'll go into Amazing Spider-Man, too. Oh, Jesus. What do you think of it? God. I'll only give it more than Amazing Spider-Man too, so I'll give it a two out of five. Yeah. I would say at this point, it's like...

It's probably, I don't know. From memory, it's probably like a five for me. at a 10. I was just looking on my rating. I have it as a one star. Well, I'm trying to strike some balance between like, you know,

my personal feelings of what Spider-Man should be versus, like, what they wanted it to be, and they obviously wanted it to be something that I consider to be just, like, awful and uninteresting. But, you know, in terms of, like, filmmaking, it wasn't, like, the most incompetence.

thing ever. It was just like bland, right? And in my opinion, personally, when I rate something a five out of ten, depending on the kind of movie it is, that could be considered my worst rating because when I want to see a film, I want to see something either amazingly terrible or amazing, not middle of the road boring, right? Which is what I consider that film to be. It's just It's so uninteresting. It's not terrible enough to be funny and it's not good enough to be

entertaining. So that's... But there's plenty of terrible moments in it. Like, like the crane scene? Remember that? No, I don't. See, that's the problem is I don't remember it.

That's the fucking problem. I definitely saw the film. But I don't remember it. That's why I gave it a one. Like, I remember nothing about it. It's completely unexceptional in every way

and it is the worst the movie can be just a total cash grab pointless waste yeah yeah all right amazing Spider-Man too a master piece

I I do want to talk about the fucking soundtrack that you mentioned because this is this is Hans Zimmer and Pharrell Williams And I love... When it team up.

Oh my God. The interview footage for it is so good. Because like, Hans Zimmer's just being a nice guy. You know? He's just... He was clearly just told by... from SOTI to work with Ferell Williams for no reason. And what's hilarious about it is I pointed this out in my review. My review, which blew up at the time because there were so many people that were, like,

uh, budding heads over this movie. Because right now, like, this point in time everybody considers it to be terrible when that film came out everybody was arguing about it there were people that fucking loved it and everybody was super loud and my review just because like everybody was sharing it either because they agreed or disagreed with it that one just blew up and one of the points I made in that review was that it felt like Sony's inclusion of Electro as a villain was trying to essentially have the

film be this kind of dubstep tone, which is why they got for L. Williams, obviously, even though he doesn't do dubstep, like, I just don't think they understand that. I think they just assume, like, oh, hey, a not white person doing pop music, they can do dubstep. Like, what? I don't know. But so, so Sony's emails got leaked, and it confirmed everything that I was saying. I want to find the exact quote here. Just give you one second. Well, that's embarrassing. There it is. EDM in brackets electronic dance music is the defining music for millennials, wondering if there's an EDM angle somewhere with Spidey. His movements are beautiful.

Would be awesome with a killer DJ behind it. Literally in the Sony email leaks. And I was so happy because I was like, okay, this is pretty much exactly what I was talking about. Good Lord. It's a stylistic decision that totally worked in favor of the film. It really added a new angle to Spider-Man as a character. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. When Electro attacks people, you can hear the dubstep.

Right. That was so cool. Edm. Have you ever seen that in a film before? No. On the lyrics as well, God, they were, they were poignant. That's the word for it. Paranoi,

That's a perfect word for it. During the film. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, you can hear him whispering something. Like, they lied to us. It's very experimental. I just think Farrell Williams understands what a movie score is.

I don't think Farrell Williams understands what a movie score is. Like, you don't write lyrics for one. Why'd you do that? Well, you can't sometimes. It's just, yeah, it's kind of fit. I mean, well, if you're gonna write lyrics, for something, it could be like music inspired by the motion picture, put it in the credits or something, maybe even do the exact same song, but when you're playing the scene from the film, just take out the lyrics.

Take out the lyrics. Why do you have lyrics in your Hans Zimmer score? I don't know. That's not the issue that the Syspuria has lyrics in the soundtrack. That's not the issue, the issues, the lyrics are terrible. They're terrible, and they make no sense. And they're in parts of the film. where they should be, like action sequences or like build up, build up to action. It was crazy. The Tom York soundtrack in Susperia, that's not like, I mean, it's as he essentially just

wrote songs that could be used during sequences in the film, right? It's as though these songs existed previously and they plucked it out of an artist's library in a sense. But these songs for The Amazing Spider-Man, too, they added it. rhythmical whispering where they're supposed to be played over like action sequences where the other characters

are talking and it's just so distracting like in Suspira that was like long sequences where no one was talking and it was just kind of like this montage from what I remember right? Whereas Amazing Spider-Man too Yeah sometimes there's down

Yeah well I'm just saying I want to compare the quality level of Suspheria to Amazing Spider-Man too because I think they're about the same. Yeah. I think singing is a lot less distracting than whispering. And also, I mean, like, the Susperia soundtrack, that's a song where you can imagine vocals going with it, right?

Like a Tom York song. The tone of it. Compliments it. Whereas you're creating something like an actual score, you know, like movie music. I don't think words should go with that if it's going to be that tone. I mean, like, feel free to be experimental, but it just plain didn't fucking work. No, it didn't work at all. It was a laughable failure.

Yeah, very on the nose. Everything else in the movie. Well, yeah, I mean, every single element is as laughable as that. Literally every single element. I can't rewatch that film, unlike you guys. I get no enjoyment out of it. I just get so angry. It pesses me off.

much because it's just so it's such an insult it's such an insult and the fact that like spider man fans you know some spider man fans out there do still defend it i mean it is it's still a thing like that you see people yeah i really like certain scenes from it and it's it's so blatant to me how they just plucked super famous stories from spider man comic runs and just oh let's just i don't know let's have the green goblin just fly into a clock tower that's in the middle of a power station and then so we can reenact the scene from the comic. Like that kind of thing is so... Yeah, they just show it.

They steal things from the old Spider-Man movies. There's that joke with his laundry where he puts the laundry in and he takes it out and it's like all red and blue and it's funny. And then Amazing Spider-Man 2 made it into this 10-minute long improv scene of Aunt May and Peter for the fucking arguing about, oh, the laundry, why is it blue and red? It's terrible.

It goes on for so long. And there's so many scenes like that. where they just, this dialogue seems that leaked in nothing. Anybody has nothing to do with the fucking movie either. She's in her fucking hospital. Sorry, I'm ranting. It's such a bad movie.

I don't know about you guys, but when I watched the Spider-Man movies for this podcast episode, I actually just invited a bunch of people over and we had a marathon. And it was a lot of fun. Yeah, that's what I did. And I put the Amazing Spider-Man 2 on last, just for people that were still there and drunk.

And since this was the first time I was watching it, like, at home, and I could, like, rewind or whatever, you know, 4K Blu-ray, good screen. Every time a Sony product placement happened, we just all yelled out, Sony! And it happened so many fucking times! I swear there were, like, at least 30. I'm not even fucking kidding. I'm not even fucking kidding It's actually insane Like every single TV

Every single phone Every single laptop I can't even remember the most obscure ones But they were fucking everywhere It was insane You gotta dial it back just a bit You know When Sony puts that many ads in a film

It makes me think That the film isn't being made to be a film It makes me think that this is actually just a strategy to get people to buy tickets to watch an ad. That's what bugs me about so much. It's so blatant. It's so blatant about it. Everywhere. Not being around the bush at all.

When Electro decides to go to Times Square for no reason. That's more ad space. No, because there was electricity there. Yeah. The most electricity. That was the most electricity in the city. But not the power plant at the end.

No, no, no, no. Don't worry about that. That's where the most electricity is. And you can just, like, reach into the sidewalk at Times Square and pull out these massive cables. Yeah, that's very easy. I go to have Times Square all the time. It's just massive cables lined around.

Like, it's a third world country. Yeah. What about the bizarre angle they took with making Peter Parker's parents this weird mystery? Remember that? Yeah. the like plane scene at the beginning with the coins and the subway yeah yeah that subway thing was stupid

it just made no sense oh my god it was really really dull the movie was already really long like it would at least if they took all that out it would barely change the plot that's already in there anyway and it would be shorter yeah that stuff is totally very

inconsistent with like the second part of the movie where like that first scene is the born kind of like plane scene yeah that was weird and the second scene is like Spider-Man being goof fucking quips and the rhino and so silly Paul Giamatti

plutonium was like barely in it yeah it's the whole Mary Jane subplot that got cut out of the movie Shaley Wibley played Mary Jane Oh really? Oh yeah And they just cut that out

Because the movie was too long Yeah it was just too long And all those scenes are shot There were what like More than six writers on this thing Like there were like a handful of scripts that they just shuffled together pretty much. It's insane.

That's why the scenes just start and end and have no build up to them. And characters do nothing, like Aunt May. It was just in the hospital at the end, and that's it. That's her fucking character. There's like a plane in the air or something as well?

Yeah. Is that movie? Those two planes were going to crash. They had nothing to do with anything that was happening with our characters at all. He just threw it in to be like the most of the manipulative. I forgot about that.

Sorry. Very bizarre. Because Electro stopped the air traffic controllers from being able to tell them that they were going to crash into each other. And then at the last moment, when they got communication again and realized they were going to crash, the two planes turned on a dime. And they both happened to turn opposite directions from each other so that they didn't, in fact, crash into each other from both turning.

So, it all worked out very conveniently. In one of those planes. Yeah. Yeah, that would be funny. Maybe Mary Jane was there. These two random planes. Yeah, well, that's what happens when you don't have electricity. You don't want that to go away.

Sorry. One of my favorite aspects about this film is the relationship between Peter and Harry Osborne. He literally just, he literally just, the first interaction he has with him, they say, hey, we haven't seen each other for 10 years. And then they try to be best friends, like, immediately out of the blue. And then Harry's like, I'm dying. My dad is, like, 70 years old. And he tells me that we have this family curse where you start deteriorating later on in life.

But the instant he tells Harry this, like, Harry starts deteriorating himself. He's like, oh, I guess I got this now. His skin starts falling off. His dad's like 70. Like, what the fuck? And then... You just have to know about it. Once you know about it, then you start...

Yeah. And then I guess he, like, just buys into this whole, like, holistic idea where he can just be like, I can get Spider-Man blood and then I won't be sick ever again. It's like, well, you don't know what Spider-Man's immune system is like, first of all. And second, like, he goes up to Peter saying, hey, I can't. need you to tell Spider-Man that I need his blood but there's no relationship that was ever defined between Peter and Spider-Man he's like you took this photo right literally one photo on the daily daily bugle where he's taken the photo from like a

mile away there has been zero developed that that Peter Parker is like Spider-Man's photographer it's like they just lifted it from the Sam Ramey universe and thought like oh yeah this people remember those movies right so this is what's happening here. It's just, it, it never got developed. It's never got developed. It doesn't work. No, that's why, the original, uh, Sam Raming ones, you see James Franco

they had a whole fucking time. Henry, oh, what's the name, Harry Osborne? You see him there a whole time? Yeah. That's why that, they were roommates. It's because we knew, yes, from the very fucking beginning of the series, you understood that they were friends. And here it's just like, oh, here's going to come out of nowhere. From 10 years ago.

friends for 10 years we just haven't seen each other in the last now we're the best friends again and and peter the only reason like peter does anything about this he's like he's my best friend i got to help him so you haven't seen each other of 10 fucking years you just like you just showed up out of the blue and then peter decides yeah just to say no he shows up and like into his house breaks in through a window shows up as spider man is like shows up as Spider-Man is like, sorry, I can't give you my blood goodbye. And then that makes him pissed off. Why did you even go? Why didn't you just say like, hey, I don't actually know Spider-Man that well.

Or, hey, Spider-Man decided not to do this. Why did you do that? Why did you just show up in your costume and say, no, I can't? That just pissed them off. Because this movie is written by Alice Kurtzman and Roder Ortsky, who are the worst writers ever. What else have they done? It makes no sense. they did the Star Trek

in the darkness they did bounce first to direct to the money I believe he helped write it as well they wrote some of the Transformers movies yeah

they have a very bad resume and yeah this movie it makes no sense there's this scene where 4U plays yeah

it's so unhing you know figuring out the mystery about his dad and how he died I wonder if that song is distributed by a Sony record company. A hundred percent. I mean, either that or another label paid them to put it there.

It's clearly some kind of cross-promotion. There's no way that Mark Webb heard that song, or a writer of the script, heard that song and was like, man, this would be so appropriate and fitting. I need to create this scene where he discovering these things about his dad. Well, of course. I mean, like, but, but in this film, it's, A, much more blatant, much more inappropriate and unfitting, and B, way too often. Like, that's all the movie is, right? Like, you can, you can handle a bit of product placement here and there. You can handle a bit of cross-promotion for the music here and there. But when that's all your movie is, and that's it, it's like, come on, stop. Like, give me some substance. You know, there should be a trade-off. You don't want to show up to a theater, watch 20 minutes of trailers, and then watch an another two-hour-long ad, you know? You wanted to see a movie in there, right? The whole movie existed to saw that Spider-Man

Cinematic Universe they wanted to do. But they have all these different Spider-Man characters. They were in the movies about the villains. Oh, yeah. And she ended up doing anyway, you know? They just did it anyway. So it was just, it existed for that, mainly. Yeah, they were going to do a Sinister 6 movie.

Just thrown as many villains and characters as you can. Felicity Jones is in it. as like a secretary or something. She was going to be a big part of the movies. And it was just that. There's a whole movie of that. And that's why it makes no sense and it has no structure. I love when Harry Osborne is at the end of the movie

and the scientist has got whatever the fuck inside the needle gun, the injector. And Harry's pointing a gun at him. He's like, you got to shoot me up with that juice, Doc. And the guy decides to shoot it in the arm that's holding the gun at him. Like, what the fuck? And then there's this, like, mini rave party where you see this, like, skinny guy's shoulder blades. He's, like, contorting on the floor and they're flashing lights. He's like, I'm changing now.

And then he just decides to crawl towards the hobgoblin suit, as though he could have picked any of them, as though he could have just as easily crawled towards the rhino suit or the birdman. Like he could have been any of them, I guess. He just felt compelled to crawl towards the hobgoblin suit. And then his teeth got fucked up somehow. He got shark teeth. Pretty quickly. Well, Electra was the opposite.

He had the nap in his tooth and then the eels made it closed shut. Yeah. See, what's weird about that is they didn't... That wasn't just like, oh yeah, later his teeth are fine and that's like a weird inconsistency. They did a close-up. They showed us very clearly that there's some sort of importance, I guess towards the fact that these electric eels fixed his fucking teeth. Why? How much do you think they paid animators to, you know, animate that sequence? I don't know.

How much do you think they spent on that? I have no fucking idea. Probably $10,000, $20,000. It was very good CGI. That too. The actual character designs, And, like, the way this movie's shot and visual aesthetics of it are so dull. Oh, yeah. The design of the rhino suit's really boring.

Yeah, it's a terrible design for the rhino suit. Like, what do you, what the fuck are you doing to the fans of the fucking comics? Like, what are you doing? Yeah. Like, Electra looks fucking badass in those comics, the green suit. And the, he's got, like, electric, like an electric cartoon symbol. Well, yeah. Wouldn't say badass, but...

Now it's like some guy with blue skin. in like a fucking hoodie. It's like one. Yeah. This is Electro. Yeah. Whatever. It's so bad.

I hope Spider-Man remembers my name. Oh, he didn't. I'm mad now. Your motivation's been no sense. You don't remember my name. You lied to me. Electro in that movie must be one of the weakest characters ever put to the silver screen. Yeah.

In terms of just anything behind him. His performance, or he has to say, how he looks. No, but that one in particular. Like, that's your film. Harry Osborne made no sense. I said he made about as little sense as Electro did. No, if I asked you that I needed

a bit of your blood to cure my born home, you'd let me, you know, have some, wouldn't you? He'd show up in a costume and break in and then say no. Hey, Ralph, you took a picture of Spider-Man once. Why don't you find him and tell him that to me his blood? Like, what the fuck? I would be like, what are you talking about? I'm never going to do that.

It's just, the writing is so awful. Yeah. It's so unironic and how, like, it has no idea how stupid it is. Yeah. He's played so seriously. All, there's so many things going on at once. Like, fucking Gwen Stacy's going to Oxford. And then they, like, at the beginning of the movie.

Help! What the fuck was that? Well, it was so that she was, like, leaving because they wanted, like, you, they wanted you to care that she was going. I guess. Isn't Dennis Leary like a ghost? Yeah. He keeps hallucinating Gwen Stacy's dead

because at the end of the previous movie he's like, hey, now that I know you're Spider-Man, can you please not date my daughter? Because that might put her life in danger. I'm going to die. And then he's proven right. And now he's like, hey, Peter. Peter, I'm going to haunt you.

You shouldn't date my daughter. And then Gwen Stacy tries to break up with him anyway. And she says, I break up with you, Peter. Do you remember that? I break up with you, Peter. That right there is like the perfect example

of just how unclear the communication was between the writing process and then the directing and acting. Because in the script, like, you could interpret that as like, I break up with you, Peter. Like, I'm the one breaking up with you.

Like, that's clearly how it was supposed to be said. But I guess Mark Webb, and then Emma Stone both misinterpreted it and it's like I break up with you Peter I break up with you like that's not how you're supposed to say it clearly like the writing clearly called for something else I love Emma Stone it's just the directing I'm a son is great Andrew Garfield's a great actor like all of them are really Jamie Fox is proven he can be good well yeah it's just it's just the directing and the writing this is the only film where I am like serious irritated by her the entire time. Like, I hate her in this movie so much. She is so annoying in this film. Otherwise, I love her and everything else. There's people who love this movie, and they love it because of the ending, where she

dies in this, like, the whole sad scene, and people went on and on on on Twitter or whatever about how they were gone on about it. Yeah, because it's a reference to the, you know, the famous story. Oh, I love Demastone and Andrew Garfield. They dated in real life. it's like no they were awful characters and that scene was so bad when she died it's like oh yeah when when he uses the web shooter

and it shows it as a hand reaching out for her like zoomed into the tip of it it's funny what why did you do that we were all laughing at that it's so funny there's so much there's this this film is

so dense there's a lot going on Dense with shit Yeah The shittiest Corny shit all together Yeah Mark Webb is the dance movie

I hate this film But I'm glad I watch them Because they reminded me Like how good those old ones Yeah To watch them in the same day It makes it so much clear Yeah that's why I did it

You gotta see How a master does it And then how a hack does it I think like Even the flagship scenes even the ones that they promoted and shared all over social media and

shit like the fight scene between Spidey and Electro even that scene it's just like it's so poorly filmed like every time you cut to the crowd of extras it's like so what it's it's so fake it's so fake and it's so unconvincing like every time you see see the extras

whether they're running across the screen or like the ones that were on that like makeshift little stadium stand that was by itself for some reason? I don't know what they were doing there. But like everything feels so detached from everything else. It's like it's not the same day, clearly. You know, it doesn't feel like they're in a real location.

Everything feels like it's in a computer somehow. You know, when everything like pauses time and the camera like floats around, it's like, whoa. Looks like something, I don't know, somebody fucking created in After Effects. You know, it's really weird. Yes, they did. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, even, like, the end scene between Electro and Spider-Man, like, their final battle. And it's all CG, and they're just jumping from these, like, electric things. It's, like, who cares? It's just so dull. It's like watching a video game. Like, I have no stake in this story. I don't care about these characters. It's a dull movie.

Never a dull moment. And Sam Ramey's aren't. The action scenes in the Sam Ramey ones are exciting, at least. We'll talk about them. But the action scenes in this movie, you're so fucking boring. Yeah. Do you like how when this electro was jumping between the power, the things, that it'sy-bitsy spider in dubstep?

Oh, yeah, that too. No, that's true. Like, it was baby drive or something, trying to sync up the music during the action scenes. It's so bad. I love how he was able to travel anywhere he wanted to from the power lines because he got turned into pure electricity. But that little chip that the scientist gave him at the facility somehow also got turned into electricity. And he somehow also spawned like a full rubber suit because this is a movie for kids and you can't have his dong out like watchman. You know, like he's got he's got a rubber suit on that also turns into electricity.

And this physical chip was there when he like overloaded at the end and it seemed like the only reason that chip was on his head Was so that when they did the thing that killed him at the end is so that they could have that close up shot of it saying like Overloaded like Max explode So people understood what was happening I guess and then the chip falls on the ground and he's dead and the chip is there It's like did that physical chip travel to this location through power lines? What? Yes, of course it did. Because he's awesome. Do you love how Emma Stone showed up to the crime scene before the police?

And stole a cop car somehow? Yeah, because she's a great character. She's really useful. She's super capable. I guess you guys want to give your closing thoughts on this film? Yeah, that's what this movie does to you. It's awesome. It's amazing.

It's truly amazing Like shit Yeah Spectacular I don't know I give it like a two or a three out of ten It's hilarious It's really really bad

It's really really funny Yeah I give it half star It's a vomit as a movie Yeah what brings it up from a one Entertainment value I find it hilarious I think it's one of the funniest I guess that makes sense

Yeah it's just it's a failure And it's hilarious, but yeah At times it's hilarious, but yeah One out of five, absolutely It pisses me off It made so much money as well Oh yeah And it's so weird that they decided to stop that

Yeah I guess it like kind of underperformed I thought it did great box office wise I'm not really sure what happened But there's some reason why they just decided To ditch that universe And I don't really understand why Because Marvel came along and I'm like

Hey look at the money we can give you bro Oh, yeah. Check this deal up, bro. I mean, they didn't do that well. I'm looking up now. $708 million, which is, you know, that's a lot of money. That's not what they're looking for. They want like a billion.

Well, how much did the first Amazing Spider-Man make? The first Amazing Spider-Man made like $50, $60 million more. Oh, really? Okay. Well, I guess they... That's an issue, isn't it? When a sequel does make more. Yeah.

I guess they probably spent more money on the second one. It was making less money. Yeah, the sequel. Yeah, the sequel. Yeah, the sequel. sequel made less money. Meanwhile, the old ones did great, like, domestically and worldwide. Yeah. I guess let's talk about our boy, Ramey, Spider-Man. Malak? You know, I think it's, I think you pronounce his name Rami or something. I think,

I don't think it's Rami. Yeah, it's close enough. Whatever. So, these are good movies. Yeah. Well, let's talk specifically about the first one. Okay, let's start of Spider-Man 1, 2002. Sam Ramey's first Spidey Man. Pretty epic. To me, to me... Like, Aquaman? Is it more epic than Aquaman? It is epic, come on.

You have to admit, Ralph, it is epic. It is, generally, mostly epic because of Danny Hoffman's terrific score. Like, that's the best Spider-Man. It's amazing. I agree. To me, the glue that holds the film together for me is Willem Defoe. Because Spider-Man 1 is dumb. Holy shit, is it dumb? It has the cornyest fucking dialogue.

Everything that happens is so stupid. There's a lot of stupid things for sure. Willem Defoe. It's incredible. He's so... He's just so hamming it up. He's chewing the scenery. Crazy.

That scene where he's talking. talking to himself in the mirror. Oh, I love it. It's so funny. I love it. He sells it. He totally wins because... Absolutely.

I'm not mad about Toby McGuire, to be honest. I don't think he's a very good protagonist. Not me either. Yeah, but Willem Defoeboy. And when he shows up in the sequels, too, it's just yes. Good evening, Spider-Man. He's the best actor in this movie. Yeah.

With J.K. Simmons. Oh, yeah. The actress of his Aunt May, too. I like the actress who plays in the May. And Tommy McGuire does a great, like, first iteration of Spider-Man, you know. Like, he was very believable as a nerd. He was likable. He always did the right thing, you know.

He was trying his best to be a good person. Yeah, he's good as a nerd, but he's almost too good at being a nerd, because he's, like, such a dorky Spider-Man as well. All of his one-line is as Spider-Man is just like, that's not funny, man. That's just lame. He's always so incredibly lame whenever he has any kind of banter with any of his villains. Did it make you want to beat him up? I like that.

Push him against the lockers. He did make you want to beat him up. Give him a swirly. I was happy when Green Goblin tried to impale him. Well, like you were saying, Alex, like this movie is stupid. And all of these Spider-Man movies are somewhat stupid. But these movies, the same ring ones, have this self-awareness about it. And they use it to their advantage to be funny.

And they're actually entertaining movies. Unlike the Mark Wet ones. It's not stupid out of being lazy and unfocused. It's stupid because it's charmingly cartoonish. Yeah, it's playful. It's playful. But they're, yes, they're way more playful with the logic, and they're not as realistic, and they're silly, and whatever.

They have goofy characters like the Green Goblin and it's still a green suit. Yeah. But they sell it. Who looks terrible. Green Goblin looks awful. His costume is lovelyly bad. It's like out of powering. He was like talking to Spider-Man, and he's, like, leaning against the air conditioner or whatever.

Yeah. He could have taken his mask off at that point. Also, that didn't make any sense. He easily could have taken his mask off. Right. I'm sure you guys know they were going to use, like, some prosthetic makeup on the face for Green Goblin to make him, like, a moat and have some, like, facial expression, which would have been cool. There's actually footage of it online. if you want to find it.

Oh, really? Maybe I'll link it. Yeah, please. He's sort of a perfect face for it because he looks like a goblin. I'm not doing it because it's just too hard. Yeah. But it's this one with a plastic suit. So I'm curious if our opinions on this one have changed

compared to how it was in our memories. Like, do we like this one more or less or the same as how we remember this one? I would say the same. Because like there's more things that I noticed about it that are stupid, for sure. sure, you know, things where I'm like, ah, that's dumb. And that doesn't make sense. But, I mean, it's still very charming. Like you said, the music, I think that's the absolute best Spider-Man

score that has ever been written. For sure. It brings it together super well. And it's also something you have to remember is like, it's a product of its time. This is a film that is like the perfect balance between 90s schlock and like, like, it's a product of its time. And, like, it's a film that is, like, it's a product of actually good 2000s plus superhero filmmaking. The cinematography is incredibly creative and impressive. Like, I love Sam Ramey for that. When you connect it to like his evil dead films even, like he's always shown a really keen sense for expressing how to film a scene creatively.

And I love that about it. And his transitions too. transitions are awesome. This one had the best transitions for sure. Yeah. He's just... Did you know how many jump scares are in this movie? Oh yeah.

This whole trilogy is full of jump scares all the time. Like, they just flash things on the screen, like skulls? In Spider-Man 1, they just flash skulls on the screen when he's... Yeah. Just after he's been bitten and he's on the floor, they just flash him on the screen for a little scare. And there's that part where he has a bad dream, and they just flash the green goblin on the screen.

like screaming. It actually got me because it's like, why you jump scaring me, boy? Because the green goblin scary. Yeah, yeah. This is the one I actually liked more. The other ones I've changed my opinion on. Okay.

I always remember this one being kind of the lamest. Out of the three? Yeah. Not even, you remember this one being the lamest out of the three. No, no. Ignoring. ignoring my opinions haven't changed that much on Spider-Man 3 but with Spider-Man 1 I remember it being worse

than I found it too I found it really entertaining but I couldn't really figure out if I was laughing at it or with it sometimes because the the visual effects are fucking terrible a lot of the time they have aged really badly that's aged very poorly is the visual effects they're very like the Spider-Man video game that came out around the same time

and there's that shot where Mary Jane's hair is flowing in the wrong direction when they're there's swinging in front of it. There's little details like that. There's those of stupid, dumb things like that in the movie. I found it really funny, though. I found it totally hilarious all the way through it. That's what made me, like, really changed my mind on this one in particular, whereas I kind of have other feelings about its sequels.

Okay. That's interesting. yeah I was surprised by that too how did you how did you guys feel about this film I guess the actors being definitely not high school students yeah that's another example

really stupid yeah but everyone is that way everyone everyone will think we were 20 yeah it's it's annoying and I feel like it's becoming less acceptable as time goes on. No, but for that tone of that movie, it was okay. The very, you know, over-the-top tone. It doesn't be...

It doesn't ruin the movie. Yeah. In that first scene where they're in the, like, science lab with the spiders, the teacher looks younger than the students. Yeah. Yeah, Flash is, like, taller than him. I like, I like when the spider bites him, and then it goes to the TV screen, and it's, like, new species completed. it's like was there a camera inside Peter Parker's veins or something

like was this connected to him what was that? That was really weird that didn't make any sense thank you for mentioning the spider bite because I compared because I watched the Amazing Spider-Man at first before this new spider-byte. So I compared the Spider-Bite scene

the Spider-Bite scene and the Amazing Spider-Man is a flat shot of what's his name Andrew Garfield just fucking like bit, and he's like, ow. And this movie, there's like a badass close-up on the spider as it bites and it zooms in, and there's this nice fucking, function noise. Very creative. It was a real spider, by the way.

It's amazing. It's very creative and exciting. They're like, holy shit, it just got bit, and it's this big deal. You know, that's the kind of filmmaking in this, that just, it's the reason it's aged so well. Yeah. It's something so entertaining. It's expressive, you know, it's important. You know, there's purpose, creativity. Right.

Like, what the fuck, Mark Webb? It's exciting. How did you guys feel about the dialogue? For me, it jumped between being so bad that it's good, but sometimes genuinely bad. Like, an example of a line that I think's really funny is when Peter gets in just after having a spider bite and Aunt May says, do you want to have a bite? And he says, no thanks. Had a bite. It's so corny.

Oh, yeah. I love it. I know, I like that, though. It's charming. Yeah. It feels very intentional. Yeah. And even though it made me laugh, it always made me laugh when it was corny.

Yeah. That kind of stuff is good, yeah. But like, it does make it somewhat difficult to, I don't know, really feel or remote for any of these characters when they're so, they are so two-dimensional. We haven't talked about Mary Jane yet. I think she sucks in the trilogy. Oh, yeah. I fucking hate her character. She's not only like a nasty person in the movies, but her actual place in the story is she's just like a device.

Exactly. For characters to act around. I mean, and she's just a, you know, she's just captured by the villains all the time. It's just super lame. Yeah. She's a very one-dimensional character. It's not a lot going on with her, especially in this one. She might as well be in the 1960s cartoon the way her character is written.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. And that's somewhat intentional. but I still It's not like she's a good character If it was intentional that makes it worse Because like if they intentionally made her bad

At this point in time this was like The best superhero movie Like every other example you could possibly think of For a superhero movie The same things that we complain about They did it like even worse Which is just fascinating to think about That this was like a huge step in the right direction

And aside from the Spider-First movie this is still the best version of Mary Jane we have probably in the Spider-Man movies yeah the Spider-Varce movie they did Gwen Stacy well but I mean Emma Sullen who was in Daya was the two

I don't know like the the tone of the film is like so obviously playful and joky and especially with J.K. Simmons's scenes like those are all hilarious he does an amazing job I find it hilarious He's great in all three.

I find it hilarious that in The Amazing Spider-Man 2, they didn't even try to replicate J.K. Simmons. Because it's like, I don't know. I don't think anybody would fucking want that. Don't even touch it. There is one J. Jonah Jameson and it's J.K. Simmons. So they just had him like email Spider-Man instead of talking to him. They never even mentioned him in the new ones.

Oh, yeah. News is dead Or papers are dead Newspapers Yeah I don't know Does they have a podcast In a video game Yeah he does

Yeah he's like Alex Jones That's quite funny there Yeah that was clever I love the Macho Man Randy Savage Cameo The Oh yeah

There's a bit homophobia in that scene Wasn't there A little bit yeah There was a show Diaz cameo in the second Spider-Man? I totally forgot about that. It's a lot of good cameos in here. And Stan Link. This is the first

movie to have like Stan Lee cameos. Oh really? Is it? Link on your missa though, yeah. Well, yeah, it's like on the screen for like half a second in this one. He just pulls a girl out of the way. Oh yeah. They used to be way more subtle than they are now. Now he's like he has some fucking scenes now. I mean, not anymore. Now they write

them so that people clap when they see them. I think Marvel's film. the next 20 of them though I'm pretty sure he'll keep showing up yeah they'll make him in a CTI thing yeah

they just recreate him using old lines they got him to say every single word possible Stanley will be in the movie for the next hundred years don't worry everybody I guess before we

go on to the Spider-Man 2 there's just a few There's just a few things in my notes that I kind of want to mention in point form, I guess. When Willem Defoe has his like crazy freak out and like goes on a murder spree and then James Franco finds him, he's like he's wearing like business clothes and a tie. So like at some point during his blackout, he decided to put clothes back on. Even though he's passed out on the floor.

I found that kind of funny. I really enjoyed the kind of like comedic break when he's trying to go web like all these different hand signals that he's trying to do to make the web come out

and it reminded me a lot of like Army of Darkness there were moments in that film that just felt very reminiscent to that. I loved the explosion to graduation caps scene transition

I thought that that was really cool. Yeah, that was good. Oh yeah. MJ is a fucking idiot for not recognizing Peter's voice. Come on. And he says the same line to her like right after too. He's like, I was just in the neighborhood. He's like, come on, I'm making it obvious for you.

It's like, you don't realize that that's Peter Parker? Okay. Oh, yeah. And then one last thing I kind of want to point out is I love the stupidity in terms of the logic of green goblin being able to lure Spider-Man. into a burning building just by doing that like anywhere in the city like apparently Spider-Man's got a hundred percent success crime rate and you can just you can just light a building on fire and anywhere in the city and you know he'll show up like he didn't know where Spider-Man was located at that point it's just like a random burning building maybe he did it a few

times maybe he burned down like 20 buildings and stayed inside and waited 20 minutes like spider-man's not going to show up this time I guess I guess I'll burn down a other building, he screams like a woman to try to lure him in. I found that hilarious. But yeah, those are all my little point form notes of things I just wanted to mention. And none of those things would affect the writing for me. Yeah. It's so weird.

I forget them because they're cartooniness and the fun of it. Yeah. I know there's a lot of people that would probably criticize us because there are aspects to this film where if they were found in other films, we might be a bit more harsh and critical. But I think that overall, the most important thing to take note of is the overall tone. And also considering, you know, it's not a movie that's just logical inconsistencies and cheesiness. Like, there's a lot of great filmmaking to go in there as well.

Like, there's so much, there's so much substance there. And again, like, the score is just something that holds it. together so well. It's quality. Yeah. It's quality filmmaking. It's a piece that's exciting and has fun characters in it. And it's entertaining.

I mean, this movie was a fucking huge hit. Yeah. And it was one of the two films, X-Men is the other one, that really started this whole superhero age. We're living in now. Yeah, pretty much. The only movies that took well are the superhero movies. This is the start of it.

This is just a great movie, I think. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm not quite on the same level as you guys. I mean, I can't say it has substance. I just think it's a really bad story told with like a masterful presentation. I think that's what it is to me. I don't know if I can give it credit for being dumb and cartoony and not taking itself seriously while at the same time having villains with the worst motivations.

Like Green Goblin's motivations, they make no sense. Oh yeah. What he's trying to do is just like, he just does it because. And I mean, like... Wants revenge. But he's completed his revenge arc, like, by halfway point in the movie. And then he's just like, okay, now I'm going to torture Spider-Man, I guess, because I want him to join me. The gobbling gas makes him evil.

Okay? They said at the beginning of the movie that the side effects were that you become a crazy person. The worst, like, terrible explanation for a... a villain. Like, that sucks. When I say substance, I'm not talking about, like, this script per se. I'm talking, like, I'm talking literally about the presentation. And as you said, like, it's very well presented.

And that's what I mean by substance. Like, presentation matters a lot to me. Like, I value it very highly. I can I, to me, there needs to be more of a balance. Yeah. I just can't sit there with, I find James Franco in these movies to be particularly awful. He's given, like, some of the worst, some of the worst. some of the worst dialogue.

And that's what I mean. It's like a balance where, it's like a 50-50 balance where there's a line of dialogue that is so like purposefully goofy, so corny. Like there's that, there's that quip where Spider-Man retorts to Green Goblin saying something like,

it's you who's out gobby out of your mind. Like, dumb, dumb shit. Like, I love that kind of thing. I think that kind of tone is brilliant. But my issue is when there is really hyper clunky exposition that's in there all the time. It's very overt in a lot of ways that I found kind of frustrating at times because it's like, it doesn't take much to give characters simple motivations that make sense just to drive the plot along because the real hook is how the film looks and the way it's presented.

But it's too frustrating to me when now that we do have films like Spider-verse, which has the the the the similar tone it's not taking itself too seriously is self-aware but it also has characters that have some weight and depth behind them you know i i can't i can't really you know get behind some of the character writing and the plot of of these movies that's totally fine and it all just matters how how much you know any of those aspects affect you right like i yeah yeah just despite how little sense and how stupid, you know, something like the end fight scene is, where the goblin, like, does a flip for no reason,

and then, like, tries to ram his fucking... Yeah, what's his actual plan? Into himself? He would have stopped himself either way. I know. I think it was supposed to be, like, a kamikaze thing. But I love how he's just like... He just says, oh, and then dies.

And then, you know, it... Despite all that, like, the presentation of the scene, Like when you watch that again, it's like there's so much of like Sam Ramey's style in there. There's so much of the original Evil Dead trilogy in that scene. You know, and I love how the music completely cuts out and like it still manages to convey the emotions that it's trying to, even if there are laughable moments for sure. I'm still able to take much of it seriously somehow. And I think that that's, you know, a testament to the actual presentation. and the filmmaking involved and that's part of why I love it so much.

I just, I find it odd when, like after his death scene, his last words are, don't tell Harry. I know. He says to Peter. Plot device.

You don't have any fucking right to say that to me. You just try to kill me. It makes, that kind of thing is just like, it makes no sense within the, like, the context of the characters and it's so unbelievable. Yeah.

All right. What would you give it out a five? Yeah, I want to hear what you guys give it before I go. I would give it a, at least a six, maybe a seven. Definitely not an eight, definitely not a five. I'd give it a four out of five. Okay. Well, I gave it a three stars out five, so basically the same as you, Adam.

Okay, cool. Yeah, I'm comfortable with a seven. I think that I'll put that on my IMDB if I didn't already. All that fight, you gave it the same rating. Yeah, pretty much. It sounded, yeah, I wanted to make sure my feelings were put out there because there are some things, I think, are a problem with it. Hey, it's totally valid, too. I saw all those things.

Yeah. So, Spider-Man 2? Big Fat 7 on IMDB. Yes, Spider-Man 2. This is the most interesting one to me. The second one. What do you guys think? What do you think of that one?

Was it better? Worse? I thought it was worse than how I remember it anyway. No! I thought it was worse than how I remember it, yeah. worse than you remember but is it worse than the first film is I guess what we're trying to figure out I think it's better in both ways yeah it's a better film I think it was better than I remember it the cornyness because the last time I saw it I remember being very very corny even more so in the first

one but the cornyness I loved it in this one and I thought it was really funny and charming and self-aware yeah and it's it's a I think it's a better film in every way than the first one. I think all the characters have more to do. And the villain is way better and way more defined. Oh, yeah. And the action is way better. The effects are way better.

The music is still great. Like, everything they needed to improve, they did. Man. It's just a really exciting, fucking fantastic movie. I think even the music got better, because they added the theme that plays when they're carrying him through the train. and that gets like reprised in the film and they call it back

and it's so... Yeah, like they, he wrote new themes to the film and they all work so well and they're consistent and reincorporated and I love it so much. The visual effects are super cool. They're a lot better.

The CGI which looks much better. Yeah. But even like the Dr. Octopus arms Oh yeah. With that, like how they cut from practical CG. Yeah, Sam Ramey did an awesome job with that. There'd be some weird puppet break.

Man, it was really impressive. That, I'm going to mention Evil Dead again because during that during that scene where he's killing all of those like surgeons The best scene in the movie by far. That seems awesome. That seems fantastic.

One of the best fucking scenes. Like during that during that moment like there are so many specific shots that are direct references to the Evil Dead movies and just seeing this at this age now being able to get all of them

just being like, holy shit, it was there the whole time. It was awesome. Like, there's so much. It was really effective. Oh, super effective. The POV shots. Yeah. The girl in her fingernails on the fucking floor.

It's like, it's cartoonish, but it's like still super effective. It's still like fucked up. You're like, holy shit. Yeah. Everyone watching it was like, fuck when the nails came in. Like, that's horrific to see, especially when you're a kid. Yeah. Like how, how much better of a job?

job can you possibly do in a PG-13 superhero movie conveying that level of intensity, you know? Like, I don't know if I've seen it done better in a PG-13 superhero movie. Like, that, that was just fantastic. It was genuinely terrifying. Yeah, it was awesome. It's bone-chilling. Like, that's what I want from my fucking villains. The scenes like that.

Yeah. Hear that, Mark Webb? You fucking. He doesn't hear anything. So, um, there are two cuts of this movie. There's the Spider-Man original, like theatrical cut. Yeah, I forgot that there was it extended. Yeah, there's an extended one called the Spider-Man 2.1, which is a terrible name.

But you can watch it on iTunes or whatever. There's just an option in the main menu. So I've seen both. Was that in HD? Don't watch Spider-Man 2.1? Yes, in 4K. Don't watch Spider-Man 2.1. It fucking sucks.

Oh, really? It ruins the pace of the movie. It adds... It had so many scenes where they changed the punchline or joke of the scene to be like a three minute long just never-ending gag. You know, like the elevator scene, for example, where in the original, he just says something like nice spidey outfit or something, right? Oh, that's funny. In the 2.1 version, he's like, hey, I work for an ad agency. Let's brainstorm some ideas about, let's get you a TV show.

let's put you on cereal stuff like that and it just goes on and on and there's loads of that kind of thing and they add more action to the train sequence which again is totally unnecessary he's like doc ock holds him off the side of the train and then a train hits into him and then he just pops up again down the track is it's totally unnecessary and ruins the base of the movie do not watch it at all costs it does ruin the original one though is obviously a lot better in terms of that kind of thing but I had weird issues with it similar to Spider-Man 1. Oh, yeah. I was seeing similar things. Like, I don't think Doc Ock is a very good villain in terms of his motivation. I think his presence is very good. The acting is very good. The effects for his arms are, it's fantastic.

It's amazing. He has a sympathetic angle to him, too, which is something a lot of these villains don't have. And for superhero movies, this is one of the first ones to have, like, a sympathetic villain who has like a tragic past yeah i'm just saying for for then it might have been impressive but now we we've seen better we have better than than this now um so i can't really forgive it for that especially considering how good i found um doc ox motivation in the in the video game that came out last year i thought that was a a great take that was way more believable for that kind of character i thought that interpretation is much much more intelligent than

I found them to be similar Not like not similar motivations but like similar on my scale of Motivations and how they could be I find yeah I just find the idea of Kind of fighting your own body and having to invent these arms Yeah instead of it kind of being an afterthought in the Ramey one He was controlling the fusion core Yeah it's like hey look I've I've created this this mini son also I've also made robot arms that I wear on my back and it's like that would have been enough on its own.

Yeah. Yeah. It is kind of fucking funny because, like, realistically, if you have this device, this fusion core that has a mini sun in it, like, you could probably, you could probably automate that shit. Like, you, you just have these arms so you can control it? Why don't you have, like, a computer operating those arms? Or why don't you use a joystick?

It's not just arms. It's these fucking arms that you need a chip to, like, control so that it doesn't take over your whole body. You could get, like, four. four people controlling the arms, you know? You could have like just a mouse and keyboard, each person gets one, you know, just train

them. I don't know. You think that that would just be automated in the first place. But that doesn't matter. It's a fun fucking comic book movie and he has robot arms, god damn it, because he needs to date the fucking son. Why are we arguing? Why are we nitpicking this excellent

movie? I don't think it is nitpicking, though, because it's, it is, you can't not say that it's, stupid. Like it's so dumb. No, but it knows it's stupid. It's so clearly knows that it's stupid. This is the exact conversation that I wanted to have happen

for reviewing these films. It's so much fun. It's the same reason I can't stand Deadpool. Because the movie knows things suck about it and they're like, wow, look how bad the writing is. And it's like... Deadpool is one more than the hands. Yeah, Deadpool doesn't try as hard. No, I'm using

that as an example in terms of pointing at yourself and saying, look, how bad this is doesn't make it not bad to me. I don't know if that's really the case for Spider-Man. I wouldn't use the word bad. I would just say, it's not trying to be the Dark Night. It's not trying to be deep or make you depressed or say some grand statement about society. It's like just a fucking great movie about Spider-Man.

Spider-Man is a very simple character, a very fun character, and you have him dealing with shit, like balancing his college life and his relationships and being a superhero. And that was all interesting. And it's just a fun fucking movie. And it's so well made. I would say it's, again, like the first movie, it's charmingly cartoonish. You know, it's very much like, oh, yeah, this is like, this is comic bookie logic, in a sense.

Yeah, like, I don't think it's bad writing. I wasn't cringing ever. I wasn't like, oh, God, that's fucking weird. I was at some of the dialogue. Yeah, I'm halfway. Basically anything James Franco said. It's just so awful. Okay, James Franco's bad. I'll give you James Franco.

And Mary Jane sometimes. Who are two major characters in the movie. Mary Jane was terribly written in this one. She was so much worse, I think. Like, she's, like, she's going around kissing everything. She's terribly written. Yeah. All of them, she's terrible.

She's so selfish in this film. Yeah. She's such a bad character. I fucking. She's a terrible person. She's just so unlikable. It's like, what did any of these guys see in her? That fucking astronaut didn't deserve any of that shit.

They just, they chose a guy that like kind of looked like he might be a bad guy to be the astronaut that she tries to marry. Yeah. And it's like when she ditches him, you know, it part of, part of you feels like, yeah, that guy deserves it. But he didn't do anything wrong. Like, he didn't, she doesn't deserve that at all. She's just a terrible person She gets to kiss

Whoever she wants And then you know It's just I don't Well No No I can't

I can't give it a pass When it's the exact same thing I rag on Current Superior movies for When they have inconsistencies like that Those current superhero movies So many of them are so fucking bland And not funny and boring

this is so not that well I think you can still recognize the flaws because the director actually has a voice yeah yeah that's a but that makes a huge difference with something like this

but that doesn't necessarily mean that you should ignore all of the flaws though like you can still recognize the flaws and then say by the end of it like oh yeah the achievements outweighed the flaws and I still love it or something like that

but I don't think it means like you should just pass off every you know instance of cheesiness or bad writing or, you know, things that could be improved. I think that you should still acknowledge those things. But if that's what you're going for, and that's clearly what they were going for, and I think it's a good choice ultimately, because I think it works for this piece. Then, like, I don't want to criticize it for being that when it's not trying to be that. It depends on how much of it was intentional, because, like, obviously it was intentional,

but I don't think it was, like, a fine-tuned, like, parody. I don't think it was like a commentary on the genre or anything. That's way more an issue of the Spider-Man 3 than I think this one. Yeah, we'll get to that. Where the studio interference and multiple voices definitely make the tone a little more jumbled and fucked up. Yeah. But I think this movie strikes that perfect balance between actually having an emotional impact and character development and also just being really fun in capturing that same tone as the first one.

Yeah, I do think that it has a great balance. Yeah. It is, you know, incredibly cheesy and, and corny, but it is also very well shot, very creative and fun. And just an absolute joy, I think. Yeah. Something about these movies, too, that the new ones fail at, the Mark Webb ones, is that the New Yorkers in the movie actually help Spider-Man and play part in, like, helping. can succeed.

Like, in the first one, too. They helped in the subway. And the first one, they throw garbage at the Green Goblin. Yeah, I love that shit. I really enjoy that. The Spider-Man's rallied behind by these people in the city.

Yeah. I love that too. But, yeah, I just wanted to say that. Because that's something none of the rest of the movies don't nail at all. Between the crane scene in the first Amazing Spider-Man and the plane scene, and the second one,

which were both just awful yeah but I'm coming gets get some of that right but yeah how did you guys feel about the

losing my power's subplot I liked it found it a bit weird like logically makes no sense at all because it just go away and come back but it was like

the thematically the point of the story is he had to get his life together yeah thematically it makes sense but I mean yeah

he didn't even want to be Spider-Man and if he didn't want to be Spider-Man and then he doesn't deserve the power, and so it just kind of went away. There's just something I liked about that. It did kind of just feel like thrown in for conflict, but it's kind of weird. It fits very well into the story. It just didn't explain it at all. That's a huge part of the story.

Yeah. They do kind of explain it. There's the scene with the doctor where they kind of sits down and explains it somewhere. Yeah, what does the doctor say? It's like, yeah, you're losing it. Yeah, within the logic of the movie there, that's an explanation. for why it's happening. And we're shown that it's because he can't balance his life.

He can't figure out whether he should be Spider-Man all the time or Peter Moore. And, you know, that's the real fun of Spider-Man. That's the real allure of him, is him trying to figure out the balance between, you know, his relationship with Mary Jane and getting his homework done on time while also being a crime fighter. That is like the core and heart of Spider-Man. So in that sense, it does get that aspect of the character right. I'm sorry. Yeah.

How about the amazing scene where Peter confesses to Ed May? Well, pizza time, but that was a great moment. But when Peter tells Ed May about how he's responsible for Uncle Ben's death, and that seems fucking really emotional. And there's very few scenes in most superhero movies that get back kind of level. Do you guys feel the same way about that part? Yeah, yeah, I feel like the whole plot with Uncle Ben Don. you know, although there are, you know, cheesy and illogical aspects to it sprinkled here and there,

it is still very effective. And I think that part of the reason why it was so ineffective in the amazing Spider-Man is not just because the presentation was much poorer, but also, you know, like we just saw it in the, you know, the Sam Ramey trilogy. It was so soon after where it's just like, come on, you know, like we, we're all familiar with this. We don't need. like another origin story uncle ben death thing but yeah i i think it worked that well in this like there was some purpose and emotional weight to it yeah i thought aunt may was was actually one of the best sort of actors in the movie she was kind of the heart of it whereas james franco like sucks and uh mary jane sucks aunt may and peter's dynamic was the real what's the real

I don't know. Carson Dunst? Oh yeah. Kirsten Dunst. Yeah, so. Sorry, I thought you were talking about Amy for a second. I didn't realize he said Mary Jay. I love you, MJ.

She got Von Trierd. Yeah, she did. How do you feel about Tony McGuire's yelling? Yeah, I love it. I love the gift of him at the end of the movie when Mary Jane is. he's about to be crushed by that fucking thing in the warehouse and he just goes yeah

this this film has the best wealth of unintentionally hilarious faces from Toby McGuire like every time he's doing something like he's fighting somebody who's trying to stop the train or whatever cuts in on his face and he's making the funniest fucking faces

it's awesome that's what makes him a great Peter Parker yeah he's a fucking doors bad Peter Parker to me he's not He's not cool as Spider-Man. He's lame as Spider-Man. That's my issue.

That's part of the charm. That's part of the charm. That's part of the charm. He's a totally-part of the charm. He's a dweep. That's why he deserves that power. Because he's not going to be like this ego, fucking airhead, like Charlie Stark is with his superpower.

He fucking uses it well. He doesn't have to have an ego, but he's supposed to be, you know, somewhat charming. I don't want to be charming at all. Part of, like, the core of the character of Spider-Man as, as a concept is that he's not like this macho like I know everything that I'm doing sort of sort of guy part of the reason why he's my favorite superhero is because like he's an incredibly flawed character and he's constantly fucking up he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing with his own life he's like he doesn't even know what he wants to do with his own life he's still figuring himself

out he's he's a growing adult you know he's he's developing himself and yet still trying to hold all of this responsibility for saving the fucking city at the same time when he can't even get his own life together He's constantly you know this this is a film where he's like constantly getting cucked in every single direction You know like it's like yeah even like even like the desserts That are that that that like fancy fancy place like he can't even get a fucking glass of champagne Like he's constantly constantly getting cucked it's really funny a great

a great punchline for those those uh he was going to grab the first two hors d'alline or whatever and there's just empty and then the third one he grabs and it's empty like that was that was perfect he like can't even deliver pizza on time

you know no like he's constantly just fucking up and that's part of what makes his character so great he's a fucking dweeb he's a dork you know he's a loser but he's also a superhero you know like that's what makes him incredibly relatable is that he's not this this like infallible that's what i that's what i like about spider man too and in the last few years he's grown to be my favorite superhero thanks to

movies like you know homecoming infinity war spider verse i i prefer that that incarnation of peter parker i think he's more charming and likable while still having a more true to the We still need more time with him Well, we'll see you this year, I guess, with that other one that's coming I don't know, we've seen a fair amount of him. Like, if Fendi War, he's okay, but, I mean, like, just the fact that he's even involved in that kind of epic shit like an Infendi War makes him not as interesting to me.

I like this iteration where it's just him in the city and there's all the superheroes to worry about and he's just got to do his best and he's got to fight corny villains. My issue was with Toby McGuire, he's just so lame. It might simply be because of his voice. Like, whenever he says anything when he's wearing the mask, and he just sounds like such a dork.

It's like, come on, man, you're doing something so cool and heroic, and then you say the lameest shit. That's exactly what I love about him. Yeah, me too. We're just never going to agree here. That's exactly what I love about. That bugs me so much. He's a fucking weed.

Exactly, exactly. I love it. Yeah, I don't know. That expert doesn't work for me. We got another Bruce Campbell cameo in this film. He plays a French guy. Yeah, he's in a long. Did you prefer the Andrew Garfield to...

Oh, no. No, no, he's by far the worst. No, I just think in the last few years, there have been better Spider-Man. In movies and games and such. I love the shot where he's swinging through the city and the camera. comes out of Doc Ock's glasses. Like that was a really cool. Oh yeah. Nice cool.

Transition then. So creative. You never see that shit. Like that's my biggest problem with Spider-Man Homecoming is that it's like it's all filmed like a fucking Judd Apatow movie. You know, it's like shot reverse shot and then some action scenes that look like it was just like a different department responsible for the cinematography there. Like the director's voice.

They each have not in the film. You know? The first 18 made it. It's just it. there's no no personality to the filmmaking is that's what makes me just bored from it like i i enjoyed it when i saw it i was like yeah that was a good movie but like i just don't i don't think i'll ever see it again i'll see the second one and hopefully the cinematography will be better but it's just it's really boring especially in comparison to to the sam ramey trilogy you know there's so much going on

like that that that whole train sequence you know was exhilarating you really feel like you're flying through the air with this character. It's all shot so well. Yeah. Well, Homecoming's going for a very different kind of thing, too. It's a Marvel. It's more of... Yeah, that too.

But it's not trying to be as stylish as this. It's going for a totally different thing. I mean, those characters are way better written, too, in Homecoming. That's what I mean. With a script like that and the presentation of a Ramey movie, it could be like a masterpiece, but... Oh, yeah, absolutely. The writing really holds it back from me.

I just can't, I can't get attached to anything. But I can't show people like that, from these things now. Well, yeah, they make sure everyone films in the same camera, yeah, do all the same. They will have to look the same, yeah. Yeah, they want Peyton Reed to make them. Instead of Edgar Wright or James Gunn. You know, we don't need them. Yeah.

All right. Do you guys have much more to say about Spider-Man too? No, not really. It's a great one. great movie. Five out of five for me. Oh, wow. Really?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, that's what I had as before. I rewatched it, and I've changed it now to a three star. Yeah, man. I think it's good, not great. That's my take on it. I just can't...

How dare you? I can't get behind the writing characters. They're too bad. When we've just spent the time describing how awful James Franco and Kirsten Dunstar in the movie and they're two of the major characters in the film and how bad Doc Ock's like it's too much for me

because there are too many scenes dedicated to them and sure the action is it's incredible it's amazing it's the best parts of the movie for sure and everything to do with Doc Ock in terms of how they present it with the arms and the effects all attached to that are amazing but there's also a plot and characters and arcs that happen around it

that are pretty bad for the most part. Some awful dialogue in there. Some just really bad scenes. Some of the CG has aged dreadfully, just like in the original Spider-Man. I don't think the CG has aged that poorly, though. Like, I don't know. Like, in the same way...

No, man. I think it's so obviously CG, like when they're falling down the side of the building. Yeah, you can tell it's CG, but it's not like the worst. It's not like, oh, I no longer believe that this, you know, this is happening in the film's universe.

or anything. It's not like the first one. It's well done. Like, all the effects are well done. And they only use CG when they absolutely have to. Like, there's plenty of moments when he's on enough buildings or whatever. And it's a set. It's a wall they built, you know, facing down.

And they shoot the camera in a certain way. So it looks like he's climbing up. Like, there's plenty of practical stuff. And that's all the stuff I like. And that's all the effects at all. Yeah. It looked very much to me like, what was it, 2004, CG? That was very obvious to me.

Yeah. There's a lot about this film that I love even more than the first. There's a lot about this film that I don't love even more than the first. I think Mary Jane got so much worse. There's like Aunt May fucking dangling from the umbrella. That was weird. She seemed to have super strength. I know.

I mean, like, yeah, there's like heightened aspect of what I love about it. And also like what kind of drags it down a little. little, you know, I guess critically for me. I think I like this one more. I would sooner watch this one again than the first one. But I think I'm giving it the same rating a seven out of ten. This one, this one's like a higher seven than the other one. The other one was like close to a six, but still a seven. This one's like higher up, I guess. But yeah, I really, really love it. Not enough to give it an eight. Well, if we're talking people, purely about my love for the film, then it's just like I could give it a 10. But, you know, from a critical

standpoint of just the overall cheesiness and especially Mary Jane, just such an awful person and just stupid things that happen and, you know, the plot, then I have to give it a 7. Man, Mary Jane wasn't that annoying to me in this one. Man, I can't stand her. In the third one She's a fucking piece of work What'd you think? Would you think of Spatamine 3?

Third one is a... Third one's not as good as the first two. I think we can all agree on that. Swatman 3 is bad. I'm just going to say it, man. It's not a bad. I don't think it's bad. I don't think it's bad.

It ain't good. It's kind of a guilty pleasure, but I don't think it's like... It's not boring. I'll give it that. It's entertaining. Right. That says it. It's entertaining. There's lots of well-done aspects about it. I actually think the first half is not that bad.

It's not really till like Tofer Grace gets his venom suit that the movie really starts to get just awful. But, I mean, there's some good aspects about it. Yeah, I mean, there's elements that are like kind of still there from the first two. But in terms of, you know, the first two. movies there's this I guess internal debate of like am I laughing with the movie or at the movie this one it's definitely at the movie for the majority of it yeah you know it's definitely like yes I'm still laughing in the same way but it's kind of like an uncomfortable like yeah this is bad and I'm still enjoying it because I love the you know Sam Ramey trilogy and I this is

nostalgic in a way but it's it you know it's it's it's less charmingly cartoonish and more just like poorly thought out when you look at what doesn't work about the film it's like okay there's it's more messy there's conflicting stories you know there's too many villains that's it's just a big mess it's not that much different in terms of each scene on its own in terms of the you know the presentation and the way the characters are kind of acting but it's just stuff with so much unnecessary garbage that just doesn't need to be there too many villains too many characters yeah interference. First of all, they brought Venom into it. He said, you have

to put Venom in this movie. And a lot of my friends are convinced that Sam Rady made this movie bad on purpose because he was just so pissed. Well, he didn't want to put Venom in. No, he clearly didn't. And Venom feels very thrown in. Yeah. And a lot of the

venom stuff is the worst stuff in the movie. Yeah. It's like the worst interpretation of the character that I've seen. It's like, this isn't Venom. A very bad interpretation of Gwen Stacy. Oh, yeah. ... interpretations of a lot of the new characters they put in. The old characters are still good.

I think James Franco, he sucks, but he's okay. Like, compared to what he's been up to before. No, come on. He has an amnesia plot. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, all right. You can't excuse that. That shit, when he was cooking with Mary Jane and they were like, oh, we love each other now all of a sudden.

Oh. That was so bad. Yeah. Yeah, they're worse. Both of those characters are worse than Spider-2. Mary Jane is really just 13. Oh, yeah. She's getting pissed off because Spider-Man gave Gwen Stacy a kiss. Fuck you, you kissed everybody in Spider-Man too. There's not a character you didn't fucking kiss. Okay, you're allowed to kiss everybody you want. He can't give one kiss.

She left her husband at the altar for him. Yeah. What the fuck kind of person are you? Miss Moral superiority over here? Fuck you, Mary Jane. She's a terrible person. And this film just like exemplifies it. She's just so awful. I'm just mad at her the whole movie. Sandman suck.

What do we feel about the sandman? First of all, what the fuck was his origin where he was running away from the police and they falls into this like hole that has a bunch of sand in it and just this machine turns on. Yeah, they were doing like, molecular particle physics testing.

He's sand now See I thought I thought that was no more stupid Than the first two movies In terms of Sandman I think Sandman is the one thing Sam Ramey wanted in the movie I thought that was the villain

He was passionate about That's fine Like his introduction His his His origin with his powers thing That's You know that was Really

really stupid Even more stupid than the previous two But you know You could forgive that If the rest of it was okay It's not just like The origin of his powers it's Sandman out of all of the villains in this entire trilogy

it's the it's the one where like the more you think about it the less it makes sense in every aspect like just how he works physically like does he have lungs he has eyes I guess like is he not allowed to drink water like there's just so much about it where it's it his the whole physical explanation of what he is is just like okay this is dumb you know this doesn't make sense Yeah, I mean, we, if you go that deep, though, then the first two movies villains make no sense either.

Not as much, not nearly as much. I don't think. It's not as bad as unconvincing. I mean, the Green Goblin is, he just has some gas that makes him evil. Dr. Octopus has just got robot arms out of evil. This is like, we're going to rearrange your molecules so that you can turn into sand. It's fucking too far out there. Yeah.

So this kind of series, I think. Yeah, I agree. He's like a famous Spider-Man villain. Like, Vatom, even Vatim is more grounded. I thought the whole point was that it's cartoonish and dumb. This is overboard. That's what makes them good. But it goes too far.

That's the issue. I think it just goes too far in this one. Not only does it go too far, but it's, in this film, there isn't that much holding it up outside of that. You know, like the cartoonish and dumb aspects of the first two. It's like, yeah, it's that. And it's part of the tone. I love it, but there's substance there as well. Whereas in this film, it's like, it's really difficult to find the substance here.

It's really difficult to attach to something that I love, that I can say, like, yeah, I really love this choice. I really love how they did this. There's not much there for this film. Well, yeah, the biggest issue I have with Samman, aside from, you know, how stupid he is, is the worst crime possibly that the film commits is by, retroactively forcing Sandman's importance into the past of this universe

Oh, I hated that. Kind of recconning Uncle Ben's death. I hated that so much. Such an awful decision. So unnecessary. To try and add something to that character. It's like disrespectful. Yeah. Yeah.

It's like shoving poop into the face of the first movie. Yeah. Not respecting why that works. That personal connection subplot. Because that was one of the best parts of the first two. was Uncle Ben the first one, and then the second one has more

Peter dealing with the guilt of Uncle Ben's death than telling it at May. That this movie needed something like that, and they tried to throw that in. And I assume, yeah, that's why Sam Raby so adamantly wanted Sandman in it, I think, is so if you have this plot

going on. And it doesn't really work. It's just like insisted importance. You know? Yeah. So aside from Sandman, and his stupid retconning of his story. There's another crime.

And aside from the amnesia, there's another crime. There's plenty. Two love triangles in the movie. Yeah. Not only, not just one love triangle, but two. Something that, you know, who likes a love triangle? Who rushes to a love triangle and promotes that? That's a great thing to have in your movie.

There are two. There's the Peter Harry and Mary Jane one. And there's the Mary Jane. Keita and Gwen Stacy one. Both don't really go anywhere. Both lame. Waste of time.

Can't believe it's both in the movie. I absolutely agree. I think this one's the longest one too, and it just seems like there's so much fucking filler, especially when they're trying to fit like three villains in there. You know, and they just don't feel like they got developed properly. That's really the cardinal sin of the movie.

The first movie and the second movie just have one villain with hair in the background. And then, like, so much of this movie is just trying to mimic that scene structure as the first two. And it doesn't really work, like, how you have the relationship issues in the first two with Peter. Like, that was interesting and it worked somewhat. And then in this one, it doesn't. Because, like, Mary Jane and him are ready together. She already knows that he's Spider-Man.

And so what they try to do with it just isn't that interesting. the protagonist already has it all it's like it's not an interesting place to start with which maybe could have made venom work with if venom came in and kind of made him into an asshole and ruined his life or something yeah it took everything from him like what

drunkenet rises did where like he loses everything and he's hopeless and he has to like recover and rise back up that's what this movie needed to do but it doesn't because it's too busy copying the first two yeah yeah yeah maybe it was just venom and just um

Harry. That's more than enough to work with. You don't need anything else. I don't need all this garbage around it. But they're both photographers, and they want to be the best picture takers for Jay Jonah Jameson. See, it's like a yen and yen sort of thing. Yen and yang. It's the superhero trope of, oh, God, we've got to come up with the new villain. No, no, sorry.

Yeah, I think you said it totally wrong. Ying and yang. You're like yin and yon. What the fuck is that? Yong. No, I think it's pronounced yong, actually. I looked it up, but I might be wrong. I know everybody says yin and yang, but I think it might be yong.

That's why I said it that way in my old boy review. Because I looked it up and that's what it said, so I don't know. Okay. Okay. We'll find out from the comments, I'm sure. Yeah. Anyway, I'll start. Go ahead.

Doesn't matter. Let's move on. No, it's just. saying how that's a tried and true superhero villain cliche with the

evil version of the goody thing you know evil Iron Man and Iron Man 1 you know and so on and so forth but I just don't think you should have Toby McGuire

and Tofer Grace in the same movie quite honestly it does become a bit of a parody of itself doesn't it? Yeah. It's too far It goes too far. That being said, there's a lot I like about it.

See, one of my biggest issues is I thought the the action sequences and CG were abysmal. I thought there was worse than Spider-Man 2 and even worse than 1 in a lot of ways. So I couldn't even latch onto that like a kid with the previous two. You know what I think happened? I think that because there was so much of an overabundance of computer effects in this film,

the budget was just more spread out between each shot. Like in the first two films, like, sure, there was CG, a lot of it, you know, but like it was used sparingly. It was a healthy mixture of CG and practical, whereas this film, it's like there are no practical shots of Sandman, you know? Like, there's CG everywhere. And they try really hard to make it look cool. And it's just, it's so lame. You compare like that trade scene, which has tons of practical shots. Most of it is practical.

And this scene in Spider-Man 3 where Harry is flying computer, and they're like flying on the gliders and going to the city, it's all CG. The whole thing. It's just like if you're watching a fucking computer. Some of it. Yeah, and it looks really fake. It looks terrible. It couldn't do it. They weren't.

Yeah, I don't think you could do it now, really. I like the idea of some of the action sequences, though. Like, I like the idea of that one where he's got the ring that he's trying to keep a whole. of but how he's keep making him like drop it that could have been a fun action sequence with the you know proper visual effects and whatnot but i did happen to see it does go too far but i did happen to read in the trivia that supposedly after test screenings of the initial cut audiences complained that there wasn't enough action so at the last second they feel much of action and just and shoved it in yeah that's hilarious so that that might be why it looks so dreadful you know it does look so

bad. I wouldn't be surprised because I thought that scene is particularly ugly on the eyes. It is. That looks so bad. But I don't know.

That seems he's kind of, it's a necessary scene that's how Harry gets his amnesia. But it is very long though, isn't it? They might have extended it or something. Yeah, maybe. They could have extended it.

Like, some of the CG was, like, I thought the CG on the Sandman while it was a little dated, it looked good. I thought it looked kind of cool. Sometimes it kind of rode the line of being almost okay sometimes. It's the kind of thing they could do fine now, probably. Yeah.

I mean, like, particle physics was, it was more like experimentation at that point. Yeah. Like, they didn't really master it at that point. Well, yeah, it was impressive for the time of like, hey, look what we can do with computers. But it never felt real. It always looked like shit. Yeah. Back then, it was never convincing.

I don't want to say it looked like shit. It does kind of look like. like shit. It's like music bulk. No, I thought it looked like

Spy Kids 3D at points. The same man? Well, he turns in the Monument, you know, just the effects,

yeah. Yeah, just in general. Yeah, I agree. I didn't like a design of Venom either. They didn't really,

they didn't really go fall out like he's super big and strong like, and the giant tongue also like he has in the new Venom

movie with Tom Hardy. He just kind of looks like just a dude. with like a big mouth it looks really pet. Venom weirdly has the same issue that mimics and echoes Spider-Man in these Sam Ramey movies where he's just kind of lame like they get the lamest actor to play him and they get the lamest incarnation of that character. Well, I mean he's not like he's not as much dorky lame as he is just kind of like

douchey cocky lame you know like he's so much of an asshole. His motivations were so bad. He has such little confidence in itself. He's more of like a bully. Yeah. I'll show you Spider-Man. He prays to God to kill Peter Parker. That's the only reason why he's there, too.

They needed to have him there so that he got the symbi- That's such a lame way. Yeah, just so the symbiote when it attaches to him makes him want to kill Spider-Man. Alone at night in a church praying to God that Peter Parker will be murdered. That's what I mean about it being too far. It's just like rushed together. Oh, crap, we got to get very. Venom in here. How do we make this make sense?

Blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Did you love how when Venom falls from space, it just so happens to be within like 50 feet of Peter Parker. Like, out of all the places on the globe, it could have landed. Just probability-wise, that's a little absurd, you know? I think that's pushing it a lot farther than probability for any of the other films. I think that's the most improbable thing that happened. You know, in Spider-Man 2, the Mary Jane's husband is an astronaut. Yeah.

That was going to be, in Spider-Man 3, that astronaut comes back and has venom as a stowaway. See, that could have made sense. Yeah, that was going to be the story, but it was too expensive to do. What? It was too expensive, so they just had it be a meteor, yeah. It probably would have taken too long. This movie's already really long. Well, I mean, you could have communicated that in a way where it wasn't expensive.

You didn't have to show anything happening in space. You could just have them coming back. Just having fun of Atlanta Central Park right next to them. Who cares? Fuck it. That's what the studio executives wrote in. Yeah. On the script.

Their script coverage. Even if we're going to ignore the quality of the computer animation in this film, none of the action seems impressively storyboarded like the first two films. Like when you look at the train scene in Spider-Man too, it's like just imagining what the storyboard would have looked like for that every shot, you know, just purposeful, exhilarating, creative. And in this

film, it's just like they outsourced it or something. I don't know what the fuck happened. You know, it doesn't seem purposeful anymore. The fight at the end with Venom and all of them, it's very dull. I don't know if... It's like a video game. Like, I'm not with you on that.

Yeah. Seriously like a video game. Terrible. It's still not on the level of Amazing Spider-Man's 2. Spiring me a 2 and that's CG and that all that they're different kinds of bad but they're both yeah I don't know they're kind of similar to me there's still a style here like I don't think gave up you you made it like

it didn't really feel like Sam Ramey anymore it really didn't comparing the action scenes from the first two films to the third one there's like nothing in it that I can really remember or care about in terms of how it was presented mainly because it just wasn't as fun but also because just the story wasn't good and the character reforms is interesting

Yeah, you just don't care by that point, do you? You just don't give a shit. I did care, like, just the filmmaking behind it is not purposeful at all. Yeah, it doesn't help, there is it. Like, that's what I loved so much about the first two and it was just completely absent from this film.

To me, it felt like it was someone who watched the Spider-Man 2 train scene and was trying to copy it in a new context. You know, with the falling sequences and, yeah, it didn't really capture the heart of what made that whole sequence so exhilarating and work so well.

Which is the emotional investment. Yeah, exactly. There's nothing, yeah, there's nothing that keeps you interested for that whole sequence. But this film also has two versions. The Spider-Man 3 editors cut also exists. What?

Did you watch that? That's what it's called. I did, I did, yeah. Nice. It might be better. Really? What did they changed? Do they have a film?

Um, no, they, they cut out that awful scene from the original cut where, and I can't decide whether this does actually make it better or worse, you guys can help me decide, where Harry, he's already had his face exploded by the bomb. And his kind of butler comes in and kind of explains about what happened with Harry Osborne and how he actually died as motivation to convince him to go and help Peter. that scene's just not in the editor's cut so Harry just shows up but that's kind of funny so because that scene is

that scene is so bad with the the guy coming in and just explaining to him it's genuinely so insultingly bad and sloppy and lazy it doesn't have that

and it kind of cuts around the infamous dancing sequence a bit oh really Is it still under call it? It is, yeah, everything's kind of rejigged around a little bit. Whoever put this together tried their very best, I think, but it's too fucked at its core to really, to really fix in any major way. But I think, yeah, it's not like the Spider-Man 2 different cuts where it's so definitive which one is better for me.

like this one is both cuts aren't great no matter what because you know the story is just so lame shorter and it has less awful shit in it yeah

yeah the editing is still bad in it though because you know they don't have any any real choice of like what to cut around yeah this is kind of a cluster

can we talk about emo Parker for a bit yes what were they thinking like emos were not like well received by society at that point like why would you turn you

flagship superhero into Mr. Emo Boy like the symbiote made him dye his hair and get some hair gel and put it over his eyes like what the fuck was that? What were they thinking? They wanted to do over the top don't think about it logically they want to do over the top

he becomes a bad boy which couldn't be really funny but it went too far. It was so weird because it was so conflicting. No, they were trying at the same time it was like ha ha ha like finger guns like at what point did he was supposed to laugh at him. At what point Does a guy dress like that, this fucking dweeb, who's now like Mr. Emo kid, at what point does he start getting all the ladies in like any kind of society?

Like, oh yeah, I'm so confident and suave now. That would be like, ew, gross. Get away from me. Like, what the fuck is that? I think aside from that, it would kind of work. Because it's like the antithesis of the raindrops keep falling on my head sequence from the second one. It's like the opposite. It's supposed to be exaggerated.

yeah it it doesn't make sense within within the confines because it would kind of work if because they already established that venom kind of accentuates, you know, feelings that you're already having. So it would, it would make sense for this lameo to think he's kind of being cool by having this alien, you know, accentuate how he's feeling. But it actually works for him. Yeah. So that's what makes it really confusing. Yeah, exactly. if everybody was like you gross get away from me then that would have worked so much better but instead it's like everybody well like maybe just in the dance scene and there was some weird looks or whatever but like he wound up he wound up like getting into like clubs and getting girls and shit and like it was so like the film was like reinforcing like yeah he's a bad boy now like what this isn't cool it felt like unintentionally lame and I get that they were trying to make it kind of lame also. But like the fact that they were reinforcing this idea that like, oh, he's cool now, that really did not help it. Yeah, it should be accentuating that he's lame. Yeah. Have you seen the YouTube video Spider-Man 3 dance scene with realistic audio? No. You should check that out later. It's really funny. Somebody took out the music and the dance scene and just added like a bunch of folly. So like his clothes like ruffling and just him going like

and like you can hear the footsteps it's really funny yeah it's like traffic in the background that's what i was picturing when he was dancing to himself it's like there's no music in because it doesn't make any sense yeah what are you doing yeah it's so bad this is a film where like even the score felt worse even the music felt like much less purposeful like what the fuck was up with the uh didn't do it did you He didn't do it? No. Oh, I didn't even know that.

Someone called like Christoph Beck or something. Why the fuck did they do that? Maybe he wasn't interested. Jesus Christ. It seems like a lot of people weren't interested in making this one. It's just the overall morale just seemed lower for this. That jazzy bullshit when him and Harry are fighting? Like, what was that?

Like, what the fuck kind of tone were you trying to go for there? It was so weird. Just a confused movie in every sense. Yeah. I love how the symbiote basically just is on his suit, but not him kind of. I think that was weird. Yeah, they kind of picked and chose the way that worked. Yeah, it was a little inconsistent.

Yeah. Apparently the symbiote is classically trained in jazz piano. Peter all of a sudden is a master piano player. It's yeah, they do things just for the sake of a gag. Yeah, that's not funny. Yeah. You're just doing this to try and get cheap laugh. You're better than this normally.

Yeah, exactly. What else is even left in this fucking film? What else is left? That's like kind of the whole movie. Yeah. What is this film even about? There's not that much to pull from this film other than like... That was my real issue with it.

studio interference kind of cash crap. Yeah. Yeah. I think some people were trying. I think B. B. B.I. McGuire is so good. Sam Ramey came through sometimes. But yeah, it's a very messy movie. Eddie Brock was really annoying

the whole time. Like Tofer Grace, I hated him. I didn't like Sandman. I didn't like James Franco. Like, I hated MJ. Like, there was nobody to attach onto in this film. Like, not even Spider-Man. Oh, of course. He's always funny. But he's not even, he's not like a character to attach onto.

Like, who am I supposed to relate to in this story? Exactly. I hated Spider-Man too. Like, they took every character and made them more annoying and then threw in other characters that were annoying. And so you've just got an entire film filled with obnoxious, unlikable characters that you don't want to see. Yeah, that's the real issue.

Because you could forgive, like, some bad CG and stuff like that. if at the very heart of it there was like a good story and real drama with characters that you cared about but you don't care about any of them because like you say they are they're so unlikable i don't want to see these guys doing it was very weak just the way they chose to end this whole series it was limped wasn't it yeah very limp it was kind of like the la la la land ending where they like go to the club and they like lock eyes with each other yeah spoilers for la la la la la land But yeah, it was really Underwhelming Exactly Exactly What's the rating?

It's fucking exhausting Bad movie And it killed the franchise Which is You knows, I don't know Maybe a good thing They could have made Spider-Man Four

I guess if they wanted It's a good thing Yeah Let the good thing die Yeah And just move on A third movie being good Would have been nice too

But whatever yeah i would have preferred that yeah yeah of course we didn't need venom when does that happen like i love venom i like the character venom i would like to see venom in a spider-man movie that's good but that's never going to happen so whatever they still got a yeah they haven't done yet still waiting but it's too silly it's too messy there's way too many villains and but overall I still enjoy parts of it, like a two out of five. We're kind of in agreement on this one, I think.

It's just a mess. But not the worst thing in the world. It's kind of interesting. Like, you can't take your eyes off it in the same way. You can't take your eyes off like a dying animal or something. Just to see what's going to happen next. It's still entertaining. Yeah, it's entertaining.

Yeah, it's entertaining. But, you know, and it just becomes, the very thing, you know, everyone thought the originals would be, you know, on paper before they'd proved themselves. It's like, oh, you just became the very thing. Get out of here, man. Two out of five. Yeah.

Yeah, I, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's not good. It's not good. I was initially, uh, thinking, uh, like a five right after I watched it, but like, just thinking about it today. I'm giving it a four out of ten You think it's worse than Amazing Spider-Man? Come on. Well, I mean,

I think, what did I say about the Amazing Spider-Man? I think I said, I give it like a four or five. I think I said five. Yeah, I don't know. It's like this one is more... That's going to be comparing ratings. This one is more unintentionally incompetent

in what it tries to do. Like, I don't think that the Amazing Spider-Man, the first one, tried very hard at all. I don't think it was trying to be anything, really. It was just, like, kind of a cash grab. And in that sense, it was more kind of, like, honest with itself, I guess. Whereas this film, like, this is the conclusion of this trilogy that so much love initially went into. And to see it all crash and burn. you know and like there's I'm I'm more annoyed by this film like the amazing

Spider-Man one I'm bored by it this one I'm I'm more annoyed by it like yeah I can't I can't fucking stand venom as a character and I I hate like after watching it recently I realized how much I hate Tofer Grace's voice as venom I realized just watching yeah watching like Venom and you hearing like, I'll get you, Spider-Man. Like, fuck off. That's not Venom. What the hell is that? What the fuck are you doing? Like, it was just, it felt like not just a betrayal of, of like, the comic books and source material, but a betrayal of the trilogy.

I really, uh, it's not great. I think I'm giving it a four out of ten. Yeah. I don't, I don't see this as a crash and burn. Like, I don't think it's that awful. I just think that this is more like it petered out. Petered. It's a series. Yeah. Peter Parker out Pizza time

Pizza time I don't know if you saw my tweet I took a little snippet of the movie watching party and we ordered pizza and when he said pizza time we all ate her pizza because somebody I found out like I just did a Google search when does Peter Parker say

pizza time in Spider-Man 2 and there was actually a Reddit post that made it to the front page on New Year's this past year saying hey, FYI, if you start playing Spider-Man 2 at at like 1152.30

p.m. He'll say pizza time at midnight. What a great way to bring in the new year. And everybody up-voted it. All right. That was a great lengthy discussion on the Spider-Man films. I'm glad we did this. we did it

yeah we'll do like two or three questions I gotta get back to the long episode okay I'll do some ones that aren't juicy as earth they got plenty of content yeah okay so if you want to leave your own questions for us to answer in this part of the episode head over to the Sardonicast Reddit

where Ralph normally leaves a funny little thread if you to leave whatever question you want so we'll start this one with junkyard Jesus 1981 with a topic that's on people's minds I think at the moment because of the Oscars in your opinion what is the worst best picture winner I mean the two answers are kind of obvious

on there what like crash one of them is crash for me I've never even seen crash but that's my answer yeah I enjoyed it when I was younger but thinking back on it's just it's not aging well in my memory and there's a lot of stupid things that happened and it was really forced and preachy so there's one i guess but i don't know like i'll have to look at

the best picture winners on wikipedia see if there's another one that stands out so you don't like spotlight do you i thought it was just a very bland boring unspecial movie but it's not something that i like thought was terrible it was just not something that i would have liked to have seen when best picture when there were so many other nominees that were much better. Those are the only two that really jump out to me, because I went through like a list of a bunch of them.

That's usually it. Yeah. I don't really think spotlight is bad, but I don't think it deserved to win. It's just forgettable. Like nobody fucking talks about it at this point. Yeah. Obviously. It was also really surprising that it won. Like that didn't make any sense.

Yeah. Like the artists and King's Speech, like all those movies are good. but I think there's always movies that are better. Like, you know, the only one I would say is bad is crash. Like, that's the only one I would say. Well, let's, I'm just scrolling through. We're the 2000s. We're in the 90s.

Yeah. Yeah, nothing really jumped out of me aside from those two. Nothing offensive. We could beat that this year, given the nominees. We could definitely beat that. Yeah, if Black Panther wins. I'll be so happy if Black Panther wins. Yeah, I won it to win.

Fuck it. I do. I legitimately want it to win. I think it would be the funniest thing. It would be hilarious. Anyway. Tunisian asks, Are there any filmmakers

who you think have made both a 10 out of 10 and a 1 out of 10? And if so, who are they? M-night. N-night's a good one. What would you say is a 10 out of 10?

I don't know, the 6 cents. It's pretty great. I mean, it has its flaws. 6-6 is 10 out of 10? It has its flaws. But like overall, I mean, like, it might just, it might just me be, be me trying to, like, fulfill the prophecy of his downward spiral by artificially inflating how great his first film was. Don't take the question literally in terms of, like, has to be a 10 out of 10. Yeah, but I mean.

More interesting of, like, a really good movie and then a really bad movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, realistically, the sixth sense, I don't know, it's an eight or higher for sure. Like, I actually think that it's a great film. I really love it and glass was like the worst

fucking thing so just glass or I mean most I mean you could realistically you could give a one out of ten to several of Mnights films

and it wouldn't be out of the question so no absolutely my film makers well mine is David Lynch he made

Dune which is awful it's really bad but he also made of course Eraserhead and Blue Velvet like all kinds of great movies and then also Tarantino he made Pulp Fiction and lots of great stuff but he also made

what's that race movie death proof? Death proof sorry Death proofs not that's death proof which is really bad I fucking love death proof yeah we're gonna have to do a death proof we totally have to do Yeah, that's not about death proof.

Because death proof is a piece of shit. Yeah, I'm kind of with you. But we'll get into it. Yeah. I guess debatably some people would say George Lucas in this answer. Yeah, that's a great answer. That's a good answer. That's a good answer.

Yeah. Mine would be Ridley Scott. I love Alien, but I hate Alien Covenant. Or Stephen Spielberg. You make Shinders list and then, Ready Player 1? Ready player 1? Yeah.

Uh, Francis Ford Coppola went from the godfather to like now he's making Twix. It's movie Twixed, which looks terrible. I've never seen it, but it's like to shout on a digital camera. It looks fucking awful. Valcimer is like 80 years old of it. Oh, you should totally watch that. Other other good answers for this, even though I wouldn't probably not give them a 10 on their films would be Spike Lee would be. Spike Lee would be a good one.

Spike Lee is a great answer. Jason Reitman would be a good one for this. He's directed some great movies and some terrible, terrible movies. I was going to say the guy who made Mute. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. David Bowie's son.

Yeah. Yeah, he kind of... He made Moon and Source code are very good. And then Mute is awful. Yeah, Mute sucks. couldn't finish it. Yeah. It's really bad.

Yeah, I was literally just scrolling through my one out of ten ratings on IMB seeing who came up. All right. That's it for me. Raging Bull 1999 asks, which movie endings was so

bad that they ruined the whole film? Did we answer something like this before? Yeah, we probably have, but whatever. That would have. Remember me. Have you guys seen that movie? I know what happens at the end, but I haven't seen it. It's not the 9-11 one.

Well, for those of you who don't know, Robert Pattinson, it's like a drama, having to do with his dad or whatever. Boring as hell. But then the movie needed some emotional butt punch at the end. So the twist of the movie is the whole thing took place right before 9-11, and Robert Pattinson's in the World Trade Center on 9-11,

and he's going to die. That's the movie. Kind of funny. You're like, what the fuck? It's kind of funny, but it's so fucked up and manipulative. I can't honestly believe it did that. That is hilarious. It's disgusting.

Source code. I hated the ending of that film. I am legend. Hated the ending of that film. Yeah, bad ending. All is lost. Terrible ending for that film. Man of Steel.

The whole movie was bad, but the ending is the... My answer would be a DC movie. Wonder Woman. I thought it was fine up until the end. Ten Cloverfield Lane. Yes. Yes, that's a good example. There's a film that like

fucking nobody has seen and it's really difficult to find on Blu-ray with English subtitles at least called The Fox and the Child. And it's like it's from the director, I think he directed March of the Penguins or something. Let me just check real quick.

Yeah, March of the Penguins. And he's got a really great style. He's got this, basically he, in this film, he mixes, like, nature documentary and fiction at the same time. And there are all these, like, crazy, like, action sequences of, like, a wild cat chasing a fox or whatever. But it's, like, connected to the story. And you're getting all these weird, crazy shots, and it's super impressive. And like the plot of the film is like this little girl is like friends with this fox outside or whatever. And the end of the film is like one of the most fucked up kind of weird fucking things.

I'm going to spoil it. So it's spoiler warning everybody. But like the little girl is like, I want to keep the fox and she like, you know, she lures it into her home. And then like this entire film that was like that is on IMDB, it says rated G. And like you would assume this entire film was for kids, like this girl befriending a fox, right? Yeah. The fox fucking freaks out in her room and like smashes itself against her walls and runs all over and like and screams out in pain and jumps through the fucking window and dies. And it's like it's the weirdest thing.

It's like, holy shit, what is this doing in this movie? Like I thought this was for kids. Like there's no way that would fucking fly well. And that's part of the reason why no one's seen it, I guess, is because it's one of those things where it's like, how the fuck are you going to sell that? Yeah, it's so weird. Yeah, it's the funniest fucking thing because it's out of nowhere. But, like, it's also just, like, depressing and just, like, terrible. So that was one.

Like, that's a great film to show to people who, like, will have no idea that it's coming and just get their reaction. You know, like, oh, we're watching a nice little movie. It's, like, well shot, some cool sequences. this little girl befriending a fox and then that scene fucking comes up like, what the fuck? It's so weird. It's called The Fox and the Child.

Check it out. Harry the Berry, that's quite funny, it says, what are some of the best uses of music or alternatively silence in film? What pops into your mind? For silence, it's raging bull.

starting the fight into a great use of silence but music I gotta think about you guys go well it depends what you mean by uses of music because if like we're talking about like the purpose behind composition

like Inception has very purposeful composition I think we explained this at some point before like the theme whenever they're going into the dream world like the bomb bomb is actually a slowed down version of the, you know, in ways, very reminiscent to being a slowed down version of the song that they used to synchronize each other's sleeps or whatever, or their dreams or whatever.

I found that to be very cool and purposeful. And also the music is great regardless. You know, there's lots of examples of, like, well thought out and purposeful music, like Johnny Greenwood's phantom thread you know the the notes sound like they're being played on one of those little uh instruments where where you're you take like a a ball attached to a string and just let it fall you know it's like oh that's you know thematic with threads you know it's kind of interesting and also very well written regardless yeah it's it's like it's a it's a it's really the thing the collaboration between the composer and director is very important like i was I listened to the new

Swar for Bird Box, which is also by Trent Resner. Yeah. And it was definitely not bad at all, but very standard and not... Yeah, it was just nothing. Yeah, you wouldn't know it's them. You compare that to like,

what work they do with David Fincher, it's way better. Because I think those guys sent way more notes back and forth. I think their work relationship is way better. And that kind of stuff gets all the difference in, you know, moments like that where the music really, makes the scene.

Like the Johnny Greenwood, that scene in, there will be blood when the fire happens and there's like that fucking, like this loud, I think it's like a string being plucked. Yeah. That's probably my answer. Yeah, there's plenty of examples of like silence being appropriately used to

in order to make a scene more impactful. Like there's way too many to, for one to even stick out. Like I could just pick out like the dark night, you know, there's no music during that scene, that chase scene with the vehicles and it's like, whoa, this is so much more intense and, you know, like you, you hear every single one of the sound design elements to it rather than the actual soundtrack, like all the explosions and the tires screeching and all that. Like, it's so well done.

Indrasteller has great use of silence and music as well. Oh, yeah. He's very good at that stuff. I guess the only other example I want to bring up is the original old boy. I thought that like all of music was very purposeful, very well done. I love how near the end of the film the villain is like humming the theme that we've been hearing the entire time. And it's like it's not even attempting to be like a fourth wall break. It's it's like the the theme that we heard throughout the entire film is is like a rendition, a cinematic rendition of the theme from the evergreen old boys academy, which actually plays a purpose into the film. You know, it's like, oh, wow, you took something that's like in the film's universe, you expand it upon it and made it more emotional and, you know, it's just, it's so purposeful. And I love the classical music during the tooth torture scene. Like everything about the music and the original old boy, it's super effective, super purposeful, very well done. And then in the remake, they just decided fuck it. We're going to get stock music bullshit. So that's great.

I want to mention Kubrick to Barry Lyndon who talked about it The use of music in that But yeah Barry Lyndon And Orgos Who's in many ways copying

Like or not copying A tang homage to Kubrick With his use of music It's very effective as well So props to them You guys are laughing at me But Madagascar

I was just thinking of that I was gonna say DreamWorks As a company have weirdly good soundtracks a lot of the time especially anything John Powell has worked on Australian Dragon, Kung Fu Panda excellent

excellent music and even Hans Zimmer did the music for Maliaska 1, 2 and 3 What? Crazy! Yeah man Oh Hans

That's my choice Yeah I like the I like the music he made for happy feet that's great not Hans John Powell I've seen Happy Feet

for so long no it was good I can't really remember happy Pete I liked it I enjoyed that movie yeah I remember I liked it

directed by George Miller George Miller George Miller's happy feat. Bizarre. Absolutely crazy. All right. Is that it?

Yeah. Did you say the thing about how if they want to leave the more questions to go to the Reddit? I don't remember. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. Cool. It's a... Shut the fuck up. It won't be your turn for a while.

Yeah. You might wish it was your soon as a recommend a movie. Mm-hmm. I have an internal dilemma just do it you reckon just fucking do it then there's a second eternal dilemma

okay there is a great debate going on whether the second or third one of the movie I'm gonna recommend is superior I wonder which movie you're talking about nah you're gonna go into it wanting to hate it so I'm just gonna choose something else oh what I'm joking

I'm joking. I'm gonna choose... Okay, this is so tough. Madagascar 2. Okay. All right. Nice. Madagos. No, seriously. Seriously.

Okay. Going with an open mind. That's all I ask. I will. That's all I ask. Okay. My mind is open. Yeah, and also smoke loads of weed before watching it.

Eh. I don't know. Just because I'm a fucking long-haired hippie living in Vancouver. doesn't mean I smoke a lot of weed, bruh. Alice, I'll just have one viewing sober and then one viewing high. Yes, it's really short, it's really short so it's like not, it's not much, you know, it's not much of a commitment. What's the run time on that?

One hour and 29 minutes, but it's probably like an hour and 20 minutes. Oh, cool. Okay, is there anything that I need to, uh, I watched the first movie a long time ago, is there anything? The first one is renowned as being the fucking worst. on, right? Okay. But two and three, two and three, you know, incredible. Should we watch both two and three? I mean, I would love to, but I don't know if you guys are willing to do such a thing. I'm willing to do that. I'm sure the conversations won't be as like lengthy as and extensive as the

Spider-Man films. And we just did five of them anyway. We just did five of them. So, do you know who wrote the screenplay for Madagascar 3 though? I'm looking at it right now. Noah Bombback? Yeah. That's really funny. That's actually hilarious.

Okay. Oh God. Well, you did it. Thank you. All right. At least, at the very least, at least, is out the way, you know? I can't do it after it's been done. Right.

And if you're doing them both in the same episode, I can never do another one again until the fourth one comes out, which is being nice. Oh, there's a fourth one. Is there? It's in production, supposedly, yeah. Oh, Jesus. Yeah.

Of course. Smile in, baby. Okay. Yippee. Well, I'm happy that you're happy. You guys are going to love it. Yep. Trust me on this one.

If any of y'all listen at home, want to join in on the discussion, if you don't want to be spoiled for Madagascar 2 and 3, watch them. Watch them. before the next episode. We will be having a spoiler discussion. It was worth it just for that.

Thank you for Yeah, thank you. Thank you for listening to our podcast. If you want to support the show. If you don't watch two and three, you're done for me. I'll watch them. I'll watch them. Don't worry. If you want to support the show, head over to sardonicast.com.

Sign up for premium. $2 a month, we'll get you these episodes early. Also, patreon.com slash SardanaCast, and also we have merch links in the description. Thank you so much. That's right. Be sure to tune in next week

and listen to us talking about Madagascar two and three. We love you. Are these the ones that have that fucking I like to move it thing in it? Yes. I like the move it.

I like to move it. Ralph, stop. Stop it, Ralph. No, let's see the whole thing. Wait, I'm going to pull it off. Oh, no. You know, who did the soundtrack also with Hans Zimmer on Madagascar 2, though? Who?

Who? Will I am? Oh. Yeah. No. Okay. Well, shut the fuck up. Stop it.

I like to pull it. We're going to get copyright claims. Stop it. Oh, shit. We're going to get demonetized now. Stop it. Stop it. Oh, my God.

Stop. it off so I can stop talking. All right. Thank you everybody. Bye-bye. Bye, everybody. Bye. We won't get claims for that. Bye. We won't get claims for that. Bye.