Sardonicast - Sardonicast #31: Us, The Dark Crystal

Episode Date: April 10, 2019

Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Merch: https://shop.ritualnetwork.com/collections/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/9vG73zS Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthemoviemaker Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Fan Art: https://reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/aea35h/youre_welcome/ https://twitter.com/halfilm/status/1068175580040962048 https://twitter.com/TYF2001/status/1068333960407732225 Time codes: 00:00 - Intro 5:51 - Us 14:42 - Us (Spoilers) 25:24 - Under the Silver Lake 31:28 - Toy Story 4 (Trailer) 43:01 - The Dark Crystal (Spoilers) 1:07:59 - Q&A Adum's recommendation for next episode is Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (1975)

Three, two, one. Guys, you're never going to believe this, but I ran out. I ran out of YouTuber intros to steal. Wait, no, I didn't. Happy April fools. Okay, now here's the real one. Ha, ha, ha. I got you.

I got you so good. Dear old heres, my name is Jack Topeka, and welcome back to Sardonicast. Oh. Whoa. I tried. Good one. My heart's racing. Yeah, are you okay?

I'm fine. I drank a red ball. Pretty spot on. Oh, perfect. I'm not very good at pranking people. Which is why my April Fool's videos are just like the same thing every year expected. I'm Adam from your movie sucks, by the way. I'm Tyrone from Tyrone.com slash rough the moviemaker.

I'm Alex from Aichi. So it's April 1st when we're recording this. It's not going to be April 1st when you're listening to this. So happy late. April Fool's to all you boys. I love April Fool's Day. Happy April Fool's Day, you too, Adam. It's fun.

Yeah. Everybody uploads. What's your favorite holiday, yeah. What'd you do? Would you all do for your videos, your April Fool's videos? What, you're saying you didn't watch mine? I've watched them. I'm just trying to start conversation.

Fucking hell. I can explain to you what you guys did. I just want you to talk about it. Fucking assholes. I'm leaving this podcast. Hey, I wasn't actually being an asshole. That was a prank. It was April fools.

Ha ha. I'm not really an asshole. Yeah, I just sent some money to Big Man Tyrone, got him to read some lines and had a nice little extra cameo at the end that I threw in. Because I always liked, I like to change it up a little bit. My top 10 films of 1996 video, I don't think I'll ever go as hardcore as that again. That was like an actual movie. Wasn't H3 in that one?

Effort. Yeah, him and internet comment etiquette, Eric, also. Yeah, that's right. Alex, you did another let's play, right? Yeah, I pull out IHG gaming that one time every year and just pop into whatever I think is important, which I've done, you know, Minecraft, Fortnite, all sorts. What was the game?

It was DreamWorks racing. Dreamworks. Hang on, it's called DreamWorks Superstars. No, it's not called that. Hang on. I got the case right next to me. DreamWorks Superstar Carts by Activision. And it is as good as it sounds.

It's totally not as a Mario KartRipa. When I saw that in my subscription box, I was like, what the fuck is that? That's exactly what I want to hear. Who uploaded that? Yeah, I woke up surprisingly early today. so I was able to watch both of your April Fool's videos. Oh, good.

I love how Alex you were trying to commit at the beginning, like, oh, this is awesome. But then eventually, you were just like, I'm losing my mind. You couldn't pretend anymore. You tried. My original plan was to get every achievement in the game. Oh, God. I looked up how long that would take. Oh, no.

And it would literally take over 10 hours. Yeah. So I gave up pretty quick. Ralph, you made a good review. Thank you. I was originally going to make... I was going to upload Synecocity New York Analysis Part 6.

Oh, nice. Like, since you didn't do you. I actually haven't recorded, but I ended up going with something else. I went with the happy time analysis. Next month. Yeah. Just at a random date. People are like, what the fuck is this?

It'll be like when Kaden transformed genders, except I'll transform into Ralph. It'll be so meta. I'll transform into a furry. Yeah. Do you think there's some pranks that go too far? Yeah. I always feel like I have to tell people like, okay, I'm not the type of person to pull an Andy Kaufman and pretend like I'm choking on my food. So if you ever see me doing that, I'm having a medical emergency and I need help.

I would not want to be in that position where it's like, oh, I'm a prankster and I've pretended to die once and then nobody saves me the second time. Boy, cry, wolf. Even those are harmless. I was referring to like the social experiment kind of YouTube videos. Yeah, like those prank videos. We're like, oh, that's just racist or like whatever the fuck they do. It's just... Well, my biggest issue with those is that they're fake.

Yeah. They're just like not real or lazy. And then whenever there's these few channels that are lauded as this like, oh, theirs are actually real. It's like you try to watch them and it's like, is this funny? Wow. They created a socially awkward situation and really just hammed it up. Okay.

I like Filthy Franks prank video where he just like goes around insulting people. Like it's not even that. He's like, oh, you went to liberal arts college? Fuck you. You just got pranks and he walks away. Those are the kind of pranks I like. There's just nothing clever about it at all. I think that the pranks that I enjoy the most just aren't on YouTube.

You know, they're found in television shows like jackass, Nathan for you and the band of the show Allie G You know like Borat all those Those are the best pranks They're just not on YouTube They're just not on YouTube

Better than Joey salads What? That's just crazy talk We saw a movie Called Us Yeah us Ugs Us

What'd you guys think I saw your rating Oh so why you ask Yeah I didn't like it Yeah What did you guys think? I didn't see your ratings at all, so. Okay.

It was, I was really split on it at first, but the more I think about it, the more I dislike it. It was kind of disappointed with it overall. Adam, do you want to give your sort of baseline? Yeah, I mean, I release my quickie on it, but basically my general thoughts are that I'm, I have mixed feelings on it. There's elements that I really, really appreciate and love, and it is very confusing and understandably polarizing because this film is something that you can watch multiple times and appreciate more about it every time but you can also hate it more every time like yeah it makes less sense but there's also you know it's filled with clever reincorporation and symbolism and you know

all that fun stuff that's fun to to find in movies but at the same time i feel like it kind of shot itself in the foot by trying to offer literal explanations. I guess we'll do a spoiler warning, not now, but whenever we get into the spoiler talk. I just thought it was a very lame horror movie. I think this one was trying to be more of a horror film than Get Out, which is more of a comedy. Yeah. And the scares for this didn't really work for me at all. The comedy didn't really work for me.

And it wasn't as organic as it was in Get Out. The comedic relief in this just didn't work as well. And it wasn't as... Like, you had that airport security guy in Get Out, and he was separate from what was going on. It was a break. It was actual comedic relief. It was actual comedic relief.

But he wasn't in the action, so he wasn't acting weird. It wasn't like he was trying to be funny in this horrible situation. And here, they're getting attacked by these people, and the dad's still cracking jokes. And it's like, what the fuck? Like, what are you doing?

Yeah, it deflates the tension way too much. It robbed any, like, potentially scary moment of its kind of weight, which really bugged me every time they did it. I think it really depends because there are some movies that actually do pull that off. There are some movies that can do horror and comedy, but the horror is just so well done that it's like, okay, even though there was just comedy, it's still effective. Like, you could make that argument for even like Evil Dead 2 or something. You know, like there's crazy, like weird and scary, visually interesting things happening.

Not to say that there isn't anything remotely scary in us or, you know, there's lots of visually interesting shots for sure. But I just, it kind of felt like almost in the same vein as the strangers for me when it's very difficult for me to watch these characters just getting chased around by other characters and still feel scared at all. Yeah, that's repetitive. The most scared I got was when one of the characters started speaking, which I'm sure you know what moment I'm talking about. That was well done, but that was more to do with performance than anything, which Lupita Njongo was amazing. I thought she was the best part of the movie. Yeah, I agree. But a lot of the acting I thought was pretty weak.

Like I thought the youngest, the boy in their family was not very convincing. I don't agree. I thought he read the line. I thought they was fine. I didn't think it was really bad. He just didn't seem his sister was like very good. She seemed terrified the entire time and he was just kind of like, eh, I don't know, he wasn't crying. I don't know, but it also, I mean, I'm willing to give some leeway because the film said he's like autistic or something, right?

Like, he's not going to react everything in the exact same way that every other character is. Yeah. Not to say that that's like an excuse, but I mean, I didn't feel that way. I also didn't like the other family, Tim Hidackers and Elizabeth Moss's family. It was a weird choice. I thought they were kind of underwritten. That's when it kind of really ground down to a halt for me and really sagged and I was starting to get really uninterested because you just don't have any investment in them.

And by then, the surprise and mystery of where the horror is going to come from isn't really scary anymore. It doesn't elevate beyond that first scene where there's the confrontation. So, yeah. I was really starting to wander off and check my watch a few times in the middle there. I found when it was being mysterious, it was a lot more interesting, so kind of the first and last acts, but in the middle, it's just a really repetitive kind of home invasion affair that felt really familiar. A lot of the movies just, I'm running around in this neighborhood. Yeah, there's a big chunk of that, for sure, and I was definitely the most bored during that part, because nothing new was being revealed or developed. It was just like, oh, you're supposed to be scared because these other characters are chasing them, you know, and I just, I just, you know, I just, you know, I just.

It didn't do it effectively enough for me. Whereas in Get Out, I would say that the horror was more effective in Get Out because I'm a big fan of psychological horror, particularly. And I feel like that was done really, really well. And especially the scenes inside his head. Like, those were all so bizarre and out there. Like, when you're showing me something that is so removed from reality and it's well shot and creative,

I feel like that's a great opportunity to make me scared at least. It depends on the person. Yeah, I totally agree with you. How did you guys feel about, you mentioned the, I don't really want to go into spoilers, but you mentioned the- We can do that at any point, honestly. We don't have to talk about this for super long. Because some of my biggest issues are spoilers.

Yeah, sure. Do you want to do that? Just one more non-spoiler thing. Yeah, absolutely. One more non-spoiler thing. I really did not like the music, and I wanted to get your thoughts on the school. No, I thought of you, Ralph, when I was hearing those, you know, there's strings going up. The strings.

Well, they have the violin, like the crescendoing violin. Yeah. But they also just have lots of just like, dun, dun, dun, dun. Most of the score is plucking violins. And it's like, it's so obnoxious and cliche. Yeah, it is turning into a little bit of a cliche. I don't think it's like so. There's ways that it could have been written, I guess, that would have been less cliche.

But I don't think it's so far gone. at this point. But I can see that it is kind of becoming a cliche though. I would have loved. It's just like a really weird score. I really liked a lot of the music, but about half of it I felt was

inappropriate for the scene or just over present, shouldn't have been there, kind of took away from it. Especially when they used the song that worked really, really well in the trailer, but then decided to do it at a pivotal moment in the film that just felt really inappropriate.

Is it the fight at the end? Spoiler territory. I was trying to be subtle. I guess it's a good segue way. Yeah, I don't think that's spoilery enough that you ruined it for anybody. Oh, there's a fight. Yeah, a fight at the end. But that's what you're referring to, right, is that point, because I thought that was very silly as well.

And it kind of had like a dubstep. I don't know if it was a dubstep note, but it kind of like, it had this bassy, electronic. I know what you mean? I was like, what was that? But it was definitely like, it was definitely like. like the bass dropped yeah it was it was it was

it was kind of riding on the line between like emotionally effective and then trying to be cool at the same time and I just yeah it worked really well for the trailer for sure

like the trailer that that was awesome but just it was inappropriate it felt like a trailer song that they had it was like basically it just didn't fit but it didn't fit the movie like songs like that just uh whatever I didn't like the score No, I'm with you

Yeah I think I enjoyed the movie Much more than you guys did But I do have a lot of criticisms Like I said it's really wanted to I really wanted to enjoy it Everybody wanted to This is the most like

Everybody wants to enjoy it kind of movie Well for the most part I was just so disappointed Especially after Get Out Because I think Get Out is a really well made Horror film Yeah, solid And comedy

And this is like so It felt so rushed This felt so rushed. Yeah, I think he was kind of rushed into finishing the script, because not all of it lines up, and the exposition at the end, where they try to explain what the fuck these things are, it was so dumb. Yeah, I think that the exposition in general kind of doesn't help the tone, or sorry, doesn't help the story. And there was a total lack of subtlety. Are we in spoiler territory now, by the way? Yeah, I think so. Okay, spoiler territory, everybody, for sure.

100%. Go on. Like her, her. her father being an alcoholic and so Lupida doesn't drink alcohol and she's always like yeah I'm drinking water I got my bottle of water here I don't drink I don't drink she has like 20 lines of that and it's so like okay I get it holy fuck everything in the movie is like that

I wouldn't say everything but I mean like there is kind of like a purpose towards things being repeated right like that's kind of in line with the themes I guess yeah well which things well I mean like the every the idea of of people themselves being repeated

because there's duplicate copies of them. You know, like there's a lot of really fun little details in the movie of just like, oh, that connects here and that connects here. And not all of them are super significant in any way, but it's nice to see like, oh, yeah, you know, the little kid with the ambulance that he used to block the door,

and then they leave in the ambulance at the end. So it's like, oh, that was their escape sort of thing. Like there's so much cool stuff like that. And I really love that. I just wish that the film at its core had more of a point and was scarier and more entertaining. Because there were some parts where I was legitimately just bored. Like this is a movie where I for sure am just more entertained by the discussion of the film. And I want to look up more articles.

I want to read more Reddit comments. Like that's super fun to me, but I'm never going to see the movie again. I'm exactly there with you. How did you guys feel about the twist reveal at the end? It was dumb. I guessed it from eight minutes in. Yeah, it's the most predictable reveal. I guessed it from the trailer.

Every clone-based all like... They all do it, yeah, exactly. And there's no mystery to any of it. It's bizarre. I literally just expected it from the trailer and knowing the concept. They're like, okay, well, if you're going to have a horror movie and people are clones of each other, then there has to be some sort of twist where you think it's the main character or, you know, one of the main characters and it turns out to be one of the bad ones, right?

And I was expecting that, but as the movie went along, I was like, okay, no, they couldn't possibly do it now because that would be too stupid, and then they did it. Yeah. Like, once they explained everything, it didn't really make sense. It didn't make any sense. The setup of the world is kind of shoddly put together in terms of like the film, the film opens with the description of there being tunnels under America. And then it's not relevant until the very end of the movie. So the whole time you're like waiting for these tunnel things to be. explained or come into play.

And it's just, it just doesn't, it doesn't mesh well together. By the end, it doesn't feel like a payoff. It just feels like they needed to explain something when they're other ways around. I would have rather had just the title and then no explanation from the characters. Yeah. When you have a film where it's begging you to look at every single detail anyway, I feel like the more subtle you can be, the better it will come across, especially if it's like a horror kind of movie.

The more they explained, the more kind of fell apart. They should have revealed the twist earlier, and it should have been part of the plot, because I think having, like, the idea of their mother is part or one of these clone kind of people, and they have to deal with that, is more interesting than just revealing it at the end. Yeah. And it's predictable anyway, so you should have just revealed it earlier, maybe at the midpoint or the first act, like, around there. It felt like the idea of having a twist at the end like that was at the expense of the

rest of the film in a way because now you look at the rest of the movie is so much boring shit that they could have just put this kind of plot element in there and filled up to the spots and it would be way better well because now now when you look at the conversation at on the couch when these things break into their home it's like okay the original woman why didn't she say anything about that like why is she being cryptic explaining things that the other character already knows? Like it just makes less and less sense because of that twist and it's like why why did you do that? Did you find that the doppelgangers and the way they speak you mentioned liking kind of the main

one but I had issues with the kind of the way they were screamed at each other like on the boat scene and communicated I thought that was too far and a bit too comedic for me it was it was odd it didn't really work for me no yeah I mean like I didn't find them scary at any point but I think the point was that like she was the only one that knew English because she was the original thing and then none of the other things down there knew English. So she was the only one. No, I understood that. It was more just the actual sound they choose to communicate with these like grunts and things.

They did come across as goofy. Oh, for sure, goofy. And then you have to think like, okay, well, how did this like six-year-old girl's vocabulary get so much better than a six-year-old? Yeah. You know, if she had no one else to talk to and no information of any language down there. You're not supposed to think about it too much. Yeah.

I mean, the whole movie has the context and the logic. It's an allegory, I guess. It's like a political allegory for... That's what I want. Jordan Peel. Yeah, sure. That's what I want. But then they explain so much that you have to think about it in that way.

Yeah. Exactly. You're right. But it's just straight out makes no sense, though, in many ways. Like the reveal at the end is just so stupid and for a film that's asking you to analyze every frame of it It's like you can't pick and choose when you want the audience to turn your brain off and turn it on again It's so much to ask of the audience to just accept that that that's the case Yeah, saying it. So that's just what happened I guess just believe it

Yeah, if it were more subtle than I I wouldn't give a shit about anything not making sense Because it would be so clear that it was just like okay, this is all metaphorical But as soon as they have characters being like, this is how everything works down here. And there were scientists that kidnapped and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, then you're forced to think about it in that way. And it doesn't help the experience. I still enjoyed it overall, just more thinking about it than the actual experience itself. I still like it.

I can't say I liked it. I think it was a slightly better Blumhouse horror film. But nothing about the execution of it was. interesting or scary to me or funny. I hope his next movie is better than this. And I'm kind of worried about his Twilight Zone adaptation because he's working on that, right? He's like a producer on it.

I know he does the voiceover for it, but... I don't know. He's doing stuff with it. I think he's directing a few episodes. I just hope whatever he does next, he puts more effort into it because this felt rushed and uninspired and boring. I just, I don't feel like there wasn't a lot of effort put I think there was a ton of effort put into it.

I feel like it was just rushed in a way. I don't know if I would say rush. I think there was something there. I think it was a good premise and I think he was passionate about it. But like in terms of writing an actual story that made sense or that was interesting, there was nothing there for me. Most of the movie was them running around. Yeah. Yeah, it can't decide what it wants to prioritize.

So it ends up being a bit of a comedy, but that doesn't really land. And it's a bit of a horror movie at the beginning, but then it stops being scary because it's so repetitive. And it's a bit of a mystery, but the whole thing is a whole thing. The tone I feel is more confused in this one. The same scene over and over. Yeah, it's just a very strange, confused movie overall. Yeah. The Get Out had very clear points of comedy and horror.

Like, I was never confused as to what I was supposed to be feeling. And this was like, like you said, their shout was goofy. So some people were laughing in the theater, but some people thought it was scary. It was a very odd vibe, like watching it with an audience. Because half of them liked it, I think. And then half of them really weren't digging it. They weren't laughing or clapping or. anything so it was interesting do Americans clap during movies to show that they like

yeah there was a lot of applause breaks during it like whatever like they killed yeah like when Lupida killed her like enemy oh I've only ever seen that a couple times and they've been during like Marvel movies it was like fan that probably ruined my experience too it's like how can I get scared when there's like people in the audience clapping and cheering who the fuck this is a horror movie these are characters in a movie well You cheering. Just shut up and enjoy it. Who are they clapping for?

Like, the people who made the movie aren't there. They don't know the clapping's happening. They're just really happy. This family made it out of that situation, you know? This fictional family. Movies suck. No. No, it did suck.

I gave it a two out of five. It's got some redeeming stuff, but I wouldn't recommend anyone watch it. I mean, most people seem to be enjoying it overall. Yeah. seem to be at least I'm happy they are genuinely happy but if someone were to ask me would I recommend it I'd say no okay

yeah I gave the film a two and a half star so slightly above Ralph but honestly the more I think about it the more I do dislike it if I don't want to watch the film again then I mean it couldn't have been that much of an entertaining experience in the first place so yeah I was quite disappointed overall I stayed away from trailers and everything

because I'm doing that now for films like this because horror movies especially notorious for the trailers that spoil everything. So I knew absolutely nothing going in. I stayed away from the marketing, but they had these ads I saw that said it was the greatest horror film of all time. I think that's a little ridiculous.

It is. To be suggesting that us is the greatest horror film of all time because it definitely isn't. I mean, yeah, I'm glad people are enjoying it because it's certainly better than a lot of the horror schlock that comes out. It's much better made for sure. It's just the story and the tone especially that I had issues with because there are really great ideas there and he's got loads of room to grow,

so much potential still. And I'm sure we will see more because people love these movies. They do really well and I can see, you know, what there is to like about it. But it just bug me too much because it's so stupid at times. If a horror movie just becomes so ludicrous that you can't. take it seriously anymore, then it's just ruined the whole point of the film. Yeah. I gave it a six out of ten. Pretty much described how I feel about it. Not a great experience, but there's a lot

to appreciate about it. There's a lot that I like about it on paper. It felt to me like it was sort of trying to do what Under the Silver Lake did really well. I thought that was a, in terms of like comparisons, the weird kind of mystery aspect was really, revealed a lot better and the scares were better. I think if you want a film sort of like this, I'd recommend that one over it in every way. It's a weird comparison, but yeah, under the Silver Lake has some really disturbing shit in it. And there's just something about the thing about the way people are kind of reading into every frame of us. And there's so many, like, hidden secrets.

But it completely contradicts the, or goes against the ridiculousness and nonsensical journey the plot goes down. Whereas I think Under the Silver Lake is creepier and is more consistent and the reveals are better. And I just really like that movie and recommend it. Yeah. Yeah, that was a great movie. We never really talked about it, even though all of us have seen it. It's kind of late. Well, why don't we talk about it?

Yeah, we could talk about it. It's better than us. Yeah, it's... People don't really like it, do they? Yeah, I was about to say, like, the exact same things you're saying about us and you're praising about Under the Silver Lake. There's tons of people that would say the exact opposite. Like, there's tons of critics that hate under the Silver Lake, including, like, Mark Kermode made a video about how much he hates it, you know?

Really? Yeah. It did not do well with critics at all, whereas Us is, like, what, 99 on Rotten Tomatoes or something? Yeah. Well, it just shows you how boring critics are. Yeah. Yeah, they like that boring Normy Us movie. But Under the Silver Lake is fantastic in so.

so many ways. Like Andrew Garfield, who I hate, is great in it, first of all. Yeah. So I'll give them credit for that. This is made by the guy I made It Follows. Yeah. And it's such a different movie than it follows. I respect that 100%.

It's like a comedy, basically. Yeah. It's two and a half hours long. There's so much shit going on. There's like 80 characters. It makes no sense. And I love it. Is it two and a half hours long?

It feels like it is, isn't it? What? It's about two hours twin. Yeah, it's about this. Two hours of 20. Wow. Because it feels like an hour and a half for me. Like, it's just so much fun.

One of my favorite aspects about the movie is like every, every location, every set is just so radically different. And there's so much to soak in about it, like every single place. Yeah. And it's always moving. Like, it never lingers. The only recurring place is like his apartment or whatever. But every time one of those scenes is happening, there's new information being presented. Like it's never, it doesn't drag on.

It doesn't feel like stale or repetitive really. It's a lot of fun. I have so much for watching that movie. It's got a great energy to it. Yeah. Yeah. The tone is amazing. It's got like a really great atmosphere.

This kind of weird, creepy, kind of funny, sleazy thing going on. There's so many questions by the end of it. Noirish kind of. The score is great. The score is the guy that it follows also. It's like that noirish kind of, you know, know, classic feel to it. Don't really want to, like, spoil too much about the movie, even though I don't know how much

you could possibly spoil, but there are some very satisfying scenes in this movie. Yeah. I don't know how much we could say about it other than just, we all recommend it. Yeah, we all recommend it. It's hard to follow. It's, I compare it to, like, Big Lebowski or something like that where the plot itself isn't really the point. It's more about watching this character going on this confused journey, just trying to find

this girl and that's resolved at least everything else isn't yeah like there's all kinds of weird characters who show up that disappear and you're like what the fuck who was that yeah but it's also kind of the point like it's very yeah exactly it's totally the point and it plays it up for comedy and it's accurate to how l.a is yeah it's about Hollywood it's about movies it's about audience members you know yeah it's really it's about everyone in the entertainment industry the actresses and the actors yeah yeah how they're how they're all prostituting themselves and have horrible lives. Yeah. It actually has a lot to say, even though I can see a lot of people watching it and thinking it doesn't.

Because there are lots of loose ends, but there's a lot to read in from the movie that I think is very intentional as well. Well, a big part of the movie is that kind of Illuminati conspiracy like thing where all these billboards and serial boxes have these hidden messages made for the elite. And the movie plays with that idea in so many fun ways. And there's very few movies that tackle that subject matter. So it was cool to see. I've seen it three times at three different film festivals. Just so happened to line up. I've seen it twice.

Yeah, I saw it at Cannes. And it still hasn't been released theatrically, right? Because they're re-editing it to make it more accessible. That's a lie. That's a lie. That was fucking speculating. It was so weird. Sure, but tell me the truth then.

So, yeah, I mean, it premiered a can. It didn't have great critical reviews. And then A24 delayed the release date in the States. They were going to push for initially before the Oscars kind of end of the year thing. And then it's like, oh, no, it's pushed to March. And then it's pushed again. The first time they pushed, delayed the release date, there were like 10 different articles online being like, could this be because there was poor critical reception and there

re-editing the film but if you look into it there's literally nothing that that supports this and so by the time it was supposed to have been re-edited I saw it at Fantasia Fest and I was like okay that was the same movie and then later I saw it at Vancouver Film Fest I was like that's the same movie so I don't think it's been re-edited at all good yeah it was just a lot of speculation for no reason just people making shit up to get internet clicks speaking of internet clicks the trailer for Toy Story 4 has like 30 million views or some shit. Oh no.

Here, I'll double check. Deserved then. We all love Toy Story 4, how it's looking right? Right? No. No. The animation is pretty impressive nowadays. I mean, they look like real plastic toys. The lighting effects are very good. They did in the first one.

It's still... The animation's noticeably better. Oh, of course it is. Nothing else matters about this movie. Yeah. That's the only valid thing I could say about it or the only thing worth note. Yeah. About that trailer.

It's really, uh... Yeah. It looks like they're just doing the same thing again. Yeah, it just looks like a repeat of the first few. A, like, neurotic fork? That's the new Toy Story 4. That's them pretending it's a different movie. Don't forget, Ke and Peeler in it?

Yeah. They'll sell quite a few toys, right? Everyone's going to want that bear, a rabbit, isn't it? Rabbit and a bird, right? Yeah, I... Why? Exactly. Yeah, why.

Money. Well, I know why, but... You can sell toys. It's like such a... It's such a contrast with their old philosophy. They'd always talk about how, you know, with Toy Story 2, they really fought against making a sequel for ages, and they made sure they were doing it right and something fresh,

and, you know, spawned off an idea, They're just not doing that anymore. Yeah. They still years ago. Woody with a plastic spork going around doing the same shit again. They're out on a road trip, right? Trying to find something. Oh, no.

Woody's trying to find the spork so they could get back to the kid. Yeah. There's some shit like that. It's Toy Story again. Instead of Buc, it's fucking a fork. Yeah. All of their sequels since, I think it was Monsters University, right? That's when they started doing this kind of thing, wasn't it?

roundabout then. Was it Cars 2 before? I don't know. It's hard to know when Pixar fell off. Clearly for money. Cars 2 was what? No, actually, John Lasseter loved cars. That was like his favorite of brain.

That's what he says. He loves those car movies. Cachow. More like ka-ching. Ouch. They make so much money, though. Yeah, I was going to say they feel all of these sequels feel like

You remember in the 90s, early 2000s, they'd release the straight to DVD versions of like, well, like, sequels to Aladdin and, you know, The Lion King and stuff like that. Yeah, the Lion King too sucks. Yeah, with way, way bigger budgets. That's exactly how they feel, like the effort with the actual, like, creativity in writing. Now they figure it out marketing, right? Yeah, you're right. It's like, it's a well-oiled machine. They can sell anything.

Yeah. They can create hype. Finding Dory and Monsters University and Finding Dory's side. And I think they got nothing to say. We're not seeing anything new from them anymore. Yeah, even the ones that are slightly better aren't good. I don't know.

I'm trying to think of it. What's this sequel that was like, okay? Well, I loved Toy Story 2. I thought that that was a great sequel. Yeah, Toy Story 2 and 3, I think are pretty good. Well, they just didn't do them for ages, did they? Yeah. Is that it, though?

They're trying to tug on heartstrings. Yeah. Isn't it just a toy story? Great. And cars? No, it wasn't. As a fan of the first Incredibles, Incredibles 2, sucks. And that's what this one looks like.

It looks like that again. They need to make bow... Just completely pointless. Brave 2. Give it 10 years. They should just call it Ratatooie 2. They should just call it Ratatooie. The number 2.

Up prequel. We'll get an up prequel about his wife. and him like going to some country like some exotic jungle you should get a good dinosaur too oh that would be incredible yeah everyone's favorite out too Luxo Jr. too mm-hmm we're gonna do it all yeah make your money make you money Disney mm-hmm yeah it's they I just they don't make good movies anymore no they don't this is the last for me. Now we're serious.

I'm boycotting Pixar. I don't know if I'm going to see Toy Story 4 or not. It's abundantly clear now. They don't give a fuck about making original good movies anymore. They're just doing whatever Disney tells them. And it's never been more transparent, I think.

And that's what this trailer is to me. So I have no interest in seeing it. Speaking of Disney, the acquisition is in effect. of Fox. Oh, yeah. So they're going to redo all the X-Men movies

again. They're going to make another Wolverine with somebody else. They haven't said any of this. I just know they're going to do it at something. Of course. Why else would they buy Fox? No, it's convenient for them, isn't it?

Because the contracts are up with all their big main characters from current Marvel, right, with the Avengers that's coming out. So we'll probably lose some characters there. And now they can phase in the X-Men, who everyone knows and likes already. so it's like a win-win for them. We'll finally get a PG-Dedepool.

Yes. It could happen. So we did get that, didn't we? Well, I mean, that was the Christmas, like cut. That re-edit or whatever. That's so stupid. I can't believe that happened. So dumb.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It really begs the question of like, okay, Deadpool was a super successful film. So are they going to look at that and be like, okay, let's continue doing that, or are they going to pull a Disney and just be like, okay, now we've got to make a,

at like every other movie in the Marvel franchise. It's got to be PG-13 maximum. They probably just won't make another Deadpool. I don't see them making a PG-Deadpool or a PG-13 Deadpool. There's such money makers there. Yeah, I don't know. But I feel like

the audience would be pissed because that kind of defeats the purpose of the movie. If they make a rated our Deadpool and it's just the same stuff, I don't know. Who knows? It could have been. They're also, they have that Dark Phoenix movie, which is apparently awful. And they're stuck with it.

They don't know what to do with it. They're thinking of releasing it, but it's so bad. It looks bad. The trailer looks really goofy. Yeah, they're thinking of just not even putting it out. They're like ashamed of it, and you can tell. I only found out about it the other day when I went to see us, because there was a trailer before. And I was like, what, this film exists?

It looks like it was made out of clips from the old X-Men movies, like edited to get into a fake trailer. They have that new mutants movie, too. Yeah, like the horror one. I haven't heard anything about that. That was delayed. That was supposed to come out like two years ago, I think. Yeah, no, it was. What do you guys

Have you guys seen the trailer for Brightburn? Yeah Yeah I've seen it It looks like an interesting concept For a horror movie James Gun produced Like parody of like Superman kind of thing

What if he came down and he was A dick Crazy person Yeah It's like It's like you take the Superman origin story Of like oh yeah

This little boy shot down from the sky And he's got superpowers But instead of helping people he wants to just murder everybody. But it looks like an actual horror movie. It doesn't look like it's supposed to be really funny or anything. It looks like an actual horror movie. It seems like an interesting concept.

It's not directed by a James... No, no, no, no. He's just a producer. Writers, Brian Gunn and Mark Gunn? Lots of brothers, I guess. Dad? Dad. Loads of dads, I don't know.

Yeah, his two dads. He's two dads. They wrote a movie. Okay. Are you guys excited for Disney's ever-growing monopoly on the films industry? You excited about that? I can't wait for them to own everything. Because I feel like it's got to crash at some point. You say that.

It's not to buy. I feel like it has to. It's just the cycle of things. Everything has a rise and a fall. Not Disney. Hopefully the fall is in my lifetime. Disney had a few years. They were doing really bad, but they got new management.

Oh, really? And now they're doing great, obviously. When was that? Yeah. Funny enough, I forgot. It was like the 90s, I think. Yeah, it was when they were doing all the 2D animations. One of the complaints was that the Disney brand was tarnished as like a kind of a money-grubbing company.

That's what people kind of saw them as. And then they changed that over the 2000s, and now we're back to that again. Nice. But they own so many franchises now. And people, they like Marvel currently. They hate Star Wars currently. and they love the 3D movies and Pixar and all that currently. So if one of them is not being liked at the time,

and the other ones will prop it up, basically. So I don't think most people hate Disney in the same way. You know, a lot of other people do. They just kind of see, oh, there's a new toy story. I loved that in the 90s when I was growing up. Nostalgia. Let's see another one. Yeah, most families don't care.

I was a child. And it'll be the same movie, and everyone will clap, and they'll cry. Everyone will be happy, and then they'll make... Oh, my God. Did you see Toy Story 4? It was so sad. I was crying in the theater. Did you see that tweet I made of the quote from the trivia on Toy Story 4, IMDB?

No. No? Okay. I'll find it really quick. I'll share it with you guys. I'm just going to scroll past all the billion digital copies that I tweeted out here. here it is. Toy Story 4 trivia.

I found this because somebody mentioned it in a Reddit comment for the Toy Story 4 trailer being released and people are obviously weirdly hyped for it. Trivia. In November 2018, Tom Hanks claimed that the ending was emotional

and a moment in history. He also added that he couldn't face the crew while recording his final lines because he got emotional with them. This came around six weeks. after a co-star Tim Allen said that he couldn't get through the last few scenes because of how emotional they were. Come on. Get the fuck out of here.

Use the word emotional three times. You're an actor. He doesn't give a shit. Everyone goes in wanting to cry anyway, so now they just know. There's going to be the son of Saul of Toy Story films. Yeah, it's going to be an emotional powerhouse. It's going to get nominated for Best Picture, not even Best Animated Film. Best picture.

Yeah, it's probably going to win Oscar. Yeah, Disney will buy that award too. Woody's getting sent to Auschwitz. Oh, no. That's how to make a sad movie, though. True. Did you guys want to start the Dark Crystal discussion? Yeah, let's do that.

Right, so let's move on to the movie I picked last week, the Dark Crystal. So if you don't want the film spoiled, pause it for later, go watch the movie, come back. or just, you know, be wary that we're talking about spoilers and we'll be ruining it even though. I don't know if you can really spoil this movie, honestly. Yeah, I was going to, yeah, that's exactly what I was about to say. There's the films The Dark Crystal from 1982, directed by Jim Henson and Frank Oz. It's a story about a gelfling who goes on a special mission with a MacGuffin to create the ultimate McGuffin and save the world, and it's, you know, a fantasy movie.

But the real hook is the production and the special. special effects and the puppets it's a Jim Henson movie you expect puppets and this film is very well known for its very impressive very advanced especially for the time use of the elaborate puppets which I'm easily the best thing about the movie I haven't seen the film for a very long time god it must have been I think I had on DVD so whenever DVDs came out whenever the DVD came out for it is when I saw it so it was interesting going back now because it was a big movie in my childhood

and seeing what I like and what I don't like. And I'm very torn in the end. It has some pretty glaring issues to me. Yeah. I don't know about you guys. But also a lot of really great stuff. Yeah. What did you guys think of it though?

Yeah. Are we all positive on it? I'm mostly positive. There's a lot that I really like about it, but it does have some gigantic issues. also. I can totally understand why it's a cult movie. I can totally understand

why it has like a 4K Blu-ray now, which I watched and it looked pretty cool. It deserves. Yeah. I could watch this again. I could see myself coming back to it and watching it for sure. Yeah, just for the visuals of it, there's no denying. Like, the puppet work is just amazing.

Not just the puppet work, the set design and the miniatures and everything. Like the whole world felt so real. And the the villains, which were my favorite part of the movie. They had so much personality. Yeah, that's what they were called. They had so, the one who went, it was funny every time he did it.

You thought that's funny? I thought that guy, he's been in my nightmares for years. I'm so scared of that guy. Oh, I thought it was hilarious. I just loved how much, like, joy he took in, like, being an asshole. What about when he's, like, all his clothes are torn off and you see his disgusting, spindly body underneath those robes? Yeah, that was the thing, too.

The gang rape scene? Yeah, it's very odd He was like a sympathetic villain Yeah He was humiliated in front of all of his friends And so he has to go out on this quest To like find this guy and bring him back It was a very good motivation

He was almost like pathetic The villain It reminded me of Yeah, it was very interesting Yeah, it was very interesting He was kind of like Zucco in a Last Airbender Or something like that

Oh yeah Yeah yeah There's a lot of characters in this movie That are like just archetypes and so there's a lot of comparisons to be drawn Star Wars and like the main character is very similar to Luke Skywalker and there's like the bar scene

which is very similar to the canteena. Yeah. Yeah, it's clearly inspired by high fantasy kind of stuff. It really delves deep into like long establishing shots where they're showing like all the creatures and monsters and stuff and the wildlife

and that's the most entertaining thing about the movie like the film almost knows that the same thing story's largely kind of uninteresting because it does one of my pet peeves of having like a prophecy I find that so I don't know it robs like the tension away from anything when you know the result of it unless there's some kind of reveal like the Lego movies a good example of that way and that's also parody at that point too exactly yeah like this this felt like the movies the Phil lord and Miller are making fun of now they're making fun of the tropes that this film embodied but because it was

so many movies and this generation too. Exactly, yeah, but I think even at the time this one was kind of familiar territory even then. I was reading some of the reviews from back then, people were saying it's kind of standard fairy tale-esque fantasy affair and

it is the weakest part of the movie because what it means is it falls back on the strength of the characters but then the characters you know, they're not great. They're pretty simple. The whole film's exceptionally simple. They're archetypes.

And it's a classic hero's journey story. There's nothing about the story itself that's interesting. It's just the execution of it. If we had a more interesting main character, I think the film would have been dramatically improved. I fucking hate Jen. I hate Jen's face. I hate Jen's voice. I hate Jen's name.

I hate everything about Jen. And also... He's just the fish out of water character, isn't he? He's always just like, what the... What's that? This is crazy, man. His intro is him playing the flute naked. His voice acting sucks.

It's like, who the fuck is this guy? It's really, like, corny. It made me think of, like, 60s, corny kind of fantasy stuff more than, like, an 80s movie. Yeah, I think that's what it was supposed to pay. The main character is the worst part. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, here's one of my big issues with it. Like, you can look at Jim Hinson's entire catalog of all the puppets he's ever used. or even just within this film itself, Jen is by far the least expressive puppet in terms of facial expressions. It's just the same face, the entire movie. And that could be alleviated with an amazing voice acting performance,

but instead we get bullshit. It was a terrible voice for the character, and the puppet just looked like shit. It looked uninteresting, and it didn't express itself. There's a lot of EDR, too. Like, there was a lot of points You could see his lips weren't moving, like the puppet lips, I guess, weren't moving. And he was saying lines.

Apparently, from what I heard, there was a lot of ADR added after test screenings because audiences didn't like the movie. I thought it was too quiet. That's one thing I love about the movie. It is, I can't believe it exists. Like, this. And who it's marketed for, I think it's supposed to be like a kid's movie. I don't know. It's like...

It's so dark. It's really dark. You got stealing essence, you got stabbing people, creepy monsters, that thing you had in your childhood trauma video and the thumbnail? Yeah. The fucking scene is horrific.

Sucking the soul out of them. You missed the most important and interesting part about this whole ADR thing. So I watched through the special features on the 4K Blu-ray and they actually included a lot of the original footage, some of the original scenes before they added ADR.

What wound up happening was Jim Henson and Frank Oz somehow thought it would be a good idea if 90% of the movie was just gibberish. So like the only characters that were actually speaking English were like the main character and his female love interest. Oh yeah. And everybody else was just speaking this made up like

goop, wop, blop, blop. And you can see some of these scenes and it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense at all. Like all of the villains are just doing that. And they thought it was a good idea. They showed it to a test audience at a test screening and people were like, I'm confused. What's happening? Why are they hitting a rock?

Why are they doing this? Like, there's so much about it that just doesn't make any sense if you don't have dialogue. And so they dubbed over the entire movie with newly written dialogue that wasn't supposed to be there in the first place because the people operating the puppets were mostly just improvising. And so they went through and they counted each of the times that the puppet's mouths opened. to write new dialogue to fit so that it didn't seem like it was horribly dumb So messed up

That's literally what happened Isn't that crazy? They thought they could release a movie of just nonsense? Such an insane story Yeah And it's not like they're novices They're professionals They've been doing it for a long time at this point

And they thought that was like gonna sell Like And then go back on it when the test screening doesn't work too It's like if you're passionate about this idea you stick to it. Yeah. You could have just added subtitles. Maybe.

That could have worked. Subtitles or just from the get-go have them speaking. I mean, what they plan to have the villains not speak a language that anyone could understand and we're supposed to watch them for half the movie, that was a horrible idea. Yeah.

Terrible idea. So I'm glad they went this route, but they went like too far the other direction because there's like lines all the time from Jin that just don't mean anything. Like clear ADR lines. His mouth is a movie. where he just goes like, oh, that was cold.

I don't know. Like this random shit. Well, apparently Jen was speaking English the whole time, so all of that was already written. It might just look like ADR because his puppet fucking sucks. And you can't even... Like, the difference between his mouth opening and not being open is just insignificant. Like, it's the least expressive puppet I've ever seen. The ADR is the worst for the Skexies.

Like, the scene where they're all eating food disgustingly, the ADR is almost like cartooned. network levels of, you know, dubbing of, like, Japanese, like, anime stuff. Yeah. Nearly on that level. I don't know. The ADR didn't bug me too much because it was, you know, a movie. I was watching puppets the whole time.

And I'm not really used to that as a film experience. So it kind of, it didn't feel like so incredibly out of place. It doesn't really, as long as it's, like, somewhat consistent, then it's fine for me. Yeah. It doesn't ruin the film for me. Yeah. Most of the movie didn't bother me either. It was just, there were clear points where I was.

I was like, what the fuck? You add that in later? Yeah. That doesn't really fit. We're being pretty hard on it, but there's so much about this movie that's great, and we should probably talk about that. One thing that I think is pretty insane is how they didn't use CG or anything to edit out any of the puppeteers, and there's so many puppeteers on set, and you never see them once.

Like, it's all very convincing in terms of watching these characters move around. Like you never, well, I mean, you know because you know how the movie is made that there are people controlling it, but it's all done very well. Yeah, it's very elaborate. There's a lot different kinds of puppets. You got full body suits and then you got like, you know, just simple hand puppets and string puppets. You got all kinds of shit. And it's really cool. It makes the world feel so alive to have such a variety of creatures and animals. Very creative. No one's going to fault, yeah, no one's going to fault the technical aspects of this. movie because it's pretty perfect. Even the way it's shot. It's shot really well.

Cynetography is great. Really well lit. I love the effect when the original Skexie Emperor died and his face crumbled. That was awesome. That was cool. That was super cool.

That was probably my favorite part of the movie. I was trying to wonder how they did that. I couldn't actually think of how to do it. Yeah, that's the thing. I love when a special effect is so flawless that you can't actually even consider how it was done and it's all practical you know

nowadays they just do that with CG yeah it would just be the happy time murders do you guys feel the movie would have been better if the two lead characters were just like people just like actors maybe like teenage actors and then everyone else is puppets

because I feel like I probably could have connected a little more with like a human running around in this world than like an emotionless puppet Literally the least emotion puppet is the main characters. I think it was more of an issue with the puppets and the voice acting for those characters. I don't need them to be human beings to relate to them. It would be just as easy to relate to a character that's some sort of puppet or whatever.

As long as it's performed well, both with the actual puppeteering and the design of the puppet and the voice acting, but it just wasn't. Like they were the most uninteresting, lame characters. the whole film and you're supposed to relate to them somehow. Yeah, but he's such a lame puppet. It's so lame. It seems like they didn't have money for that puppet. Like, most of the time, it's just like a guy in a suit and then he puts like a mask on that

looks like Jin's face. Like, it's such a boring design. It's like, why didn't you just put like an actor there? Yeah. It probably would have been better. I related more to the crab people than the main character. Yeah. Those things look cool.

Those things are fucking cool. Yeah. Those were awesome. Those are well-in-line. I don't have no idea how they did those. They looked like they could fit in like a Power Rangers episode, but they still looked really cool. Yeah. I like those weird rabbit things on stilts.

Really tall rabbit things. Oh yeah, those things are fucking cool. Yeah. So it's got so much creativity in the designs. I wasn't a huge fan of those stilt things because I could just very clearly tell where the stilts were versus where the whole body was. If it wasn't as skinny where the stilts are, if they added some more like layers, to it, I guess, then it wouldn't have been as obvious. I don't know.

Like, I never saw an animal there. I just saw somebody running in stilts. That bit especially scared me as a kid because I thought the designs were so freaky. Oh, yeah, it looks like something straight out of Silent Hill, doesn't it? Yeah, everything does. Even the things that's supposed to be cute are, like, frightening.

Like, that ball dog thing that screams and jumps scares you. Yeah. And then he gets thrown in a fucking fire pit at the end. he's still alive but still I was like oh no whatever thing he's the best character in the movie yeah he's the best character in the fucking movie

yeah I could I could easily see how this could be a childhood trauma movie and it was but it was one of those ones I like I couldn't take my eyes off just because it it sparks the imagination for especially for younger people because as an adult didn't get as much out of this but I think it's a perfect movie for young minds growing up especially because of

fantasy and the the puppets are just so they're so creative and it could really inspire a lot of kind of artistic exploration yeah it just it just doesn't seem like something that you'd think would be aimed at all like it has a very dark and bleak tone and death and it's scary yeah it's actually scary down to the music and everything the fucking characters die in it yeah yeah this won't hurt we just want to drain your living essence Yeah, they're sucking, like, the souls out of people. It's fucked up. Anyone, like, 9 to 13?

Like, they would fucking love this. Yeah. If I saw it at that age, I would have loved it. Yeah. Yeah, I think so, too. I just fucking hate Jen. Yeah. It doesn't leave you really thinking about anything aside from the production.

Like, you don't get attached to any story. Yeah, that's the issue with it. It's not really saying anything. It's such a simple good versus evil story. That prophecy. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I don't think there's anything wrong with that either.

I think it's told fairly well. It's just that's what it is. It feels like you're watching someone reading a storybook to you that's kind of been, that come to life. But the storybook just happens to be aimed for a younger audience because it is just super simple. So the most enjoyment you get out of it is the constant variation of, you know, the sets. Some of them are very impressive. There's that one in the, what's that name? Olga, her sort of H.Q has this super elaborate kind of device spinning around, showing all the

planets, and it's all practical. That's very impressive to me, that section. And there are loads of really nice, like, matte paintings for the background. It's a very pretty movie. But yeah, it's hard to connect with anything when the characters are cardboard and plastic, and plastic, and hair yeah I was kind of I was kind of let down by revisiting it and based on my memory of it remember it being like yeah that was so epic man

that was that's high fantasy right there I think you guys are hard on it I think it's still really good for what it is and like the technical craft of it is fantastic and the story is not great and the characters are not great but they're not I wouldn't say they're bad they're just these archetypes like you know what they are

It's these classic characters and this classic story just told again. I mean, there's also some really bad dialogue, you know. What's writing? There is. Words that stay. Okay. It's pretty corny. Very corny.

It's incredibly corny. But I think that's intentional too. I love how the exposition at the beginning, they literally just repeat information very quickly. They repeat the like only 10 and dying race lines. It's like, you just established that. Why'd you say that again? There's a lot of lore they expect you to pick up on very quickly. And I was going to ask, is there like anything else is set in this world, this dark crystal world?

I know they're making like a Netflix show. Yeah, the only thing is that Netflix show that's coming out. But is there, are there any books or like anything? Not to my knowledge, because the film wasn't like a commercial success or anything big time. I think it did well. I mean, budget of 50 million grossed 40 million. So I suppose in the 80s that's a fair amount of money Yeah

Not big enough of a hit though For it to be You know everyone's childhood staple It's still more of a weird creepy one Just because the film is weird and creepy It's a cult movie It's always gonna have a fan base for sure Because it's so unique too

Like you can't get the experience of this film By watching anything else And yeah I'm never bored while watching it It's just How surface level everything is Like I kind of just looking for more now compared to what I was when I was like 10 and watched it, you know. Yeah, the universe itself would, I think, lend itself very well to a better story.

Yeah, it would be so much better. For sure. Just the story was better and the main character didn't suck ass. I fucking hate him. I would like a story set in the villains, just about the villains, basically. Yeah, a little spit-off. I feel like they're the best part of the movie. Like the Penguins movie.

I would like to see some political rivalry story going on. with them. Yeah, Penguins of Madagascar, except it's the Skexies. That's what I like to do you. That would totally work. You know, one thing I did notice about it is that, and this might be a stretch, but it kept reminding me of the legend of Zelda. It was kind of like a Legend of Zelda movie to me.

I mean, characters like this little elf, be friends like another elf thing that's like powerful, you know, with the villain and the light and darkness thing and the MacGuffin that everyone kind of worships and everything like that. Just a weird thing I happen to notice. Yeah, I totally see that too. Here's a question. Does the dream fasting memory sharing include their most embarrassing and private moments? Must do.

Because that would be a fun cutaway. They just didn't show us. They didn't cover that bit. That scene was really, that's probably the worst scene in the movie. There's so much lame shit just involving the main character. I'm like, please, get back to the villain. It felt like they were like doing voiceover, just making it up as they went along during that. They're like, oh, I'm sad.

It's such a convenient way. It kind of skips over any development of the characters because they already know each other so intimately that they never need to talk about anything. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, you never see them build chemistry or anything. Wow, I never thought of it in that way, but that's pretty much it. That's why they're so uninteresting. And it's just kind of you're supposed to be invested because they both know everything about each other now. We don't, really?

A couple of flashes ain't enough, I'm afraid. I was kind of hoping at the end they would reveal that there's more of these things around of their species. Because otherwise, if it's just the two of them, like, I don't know. Yeah, they sort of imply they've all been slaughtered. They're going to have incest babies, aren't they? If they're going to continue their species, then their children are going to have to be incestuous. I don't want to see that movie I'm okay with this one

Yeah, me neither Yeah, it's a weird one It's But at the same time The character designs And the sets and everything technical about it It's so impressive But

It lacks character It's kind of devoid of personality In a weird way Because you just have no I think the characters Lack character I don't think the movie itself lacks a personality

I think the movie itself with the world it created is like very unique. Yeah. It's just, yeah. These like people who inhabit it, a few of them, not even all of them, a few of them are just so dull. It's like, why are we following us? The main characters. Yeah, the main characters. Yeah.

So every cut away from them is way more interesting than when you're with the main character, which is, you know. And that could have been fixed with a better puppet or better written dynamic characters or just replacing them with people. I think that would have worked. Because then you could have a scene where it's like two human beings actually communicate and talk about their tragic backstory instead of having to do this whole mind dream melding shit,

which is so dumb. I don't, well, you could still have other characters that don't have to do that. I think that the fact that there's no visible people in this movie really helps it feel unique. At the time, that was completely unheard of. There was no movie of just pop. with no human beings in it.

It was considered very risk-taking in that sense. Yeah, and I appreciate that. But do you think there was a scene that they could have shot with these two main character puppets like talking about their tragic past and like having chemistry somewhat? I don't see that being possible because the fucking puppets are just so bad.

It would be different puppets. It would be possible. Just those particular puppets. Yeah, I think better puppets or real human actors. Either one would have worked. Or different voice actor Or different voice actors Yeah that would have helped too

Get rid of the main characters Replace them with interesting characters And you have a much better movie Have you guys seen labyrinth Because that was kind of their follow-up after this movie Yeah I saw it a while ago I don't remember too much of it That one's more kid friendly right

Yeah Well yeah It has the human element It has humans in it It is kind of a musical But it does have creepy puppets in it the same That film also has scary-ass scenes in it that traumatized me as a child, but at the same time I still loved it,

and David Bowie's got, like, he's wearing a really tight, like, codpiece for some reason in the movie, or he's just got a really big dong. Yeah. I think that film has more personality, though, in the Dark Crystal, honestly, just because of how wacky David Bowie's in it for a start. And I can't be. remember the name.

The characters, I think the characters are much better Jennifer Connolly. Yeah, she's pretty bland. I mean, all the characters around, she's the,

like, protagonist in that movie. Oh, yeah. I haven't seen that one in a long time. Oh, yeah, me too. I only saw it once so long ago.

Yeah, that was another one I would like watch as a kid. I'd love this kind of fantasy goober nonsense. But yeah, this doesn't really hold up for me anymore.

Well, I'll get back to you on Labrance, because I will watch that one day. Or Labyrinth. Yeah. How do you say it?

It's labrary. It's about to say labrins? What was the first one you said? Some people say labrins. I've heard people say labrins. They're wrong. Interesting. Anyway, do you want to get to the rating of Dark Crystal?

Yeah, sure. Yeah, let's do it. Because I give it a... Out of five. Oh, damn. Which is a three. That means three. Okay.

That's the same that I gave it. Yeah. I thought it was just good. I gave it a six out of ten. Oh, the same. So, for you. we're all in agreement. Is this the first time

we all had the exact same rating? Maybe. Probably not. I think Barry Linden, we all gave it a 10. And I think the dog movie? I can't remember. So long ago.

Oh yeah. Amoros Paris? Yeah, someone. Yeah. We gave Madagascar 2 of 5. All of us. I think I gave it much lower. Anyway,

questions? Yeah. Let's do some questions. If you want to leave your own questions for the Sardonicast crew to maybe answer, head over to the Sardonicast Reddit, and Ralph will put a thread there, and we'll probably attach some gimmick to it that makes choosing questions really hard, like, this week's ones. Because so many people left them backwards. So, I'd ask them to do that. Why did that happen? Because I wrote, ask your, I wrote answer, or no, ask your questions.

I wrote that in reverse. and so everyone wrote their answers in reverse because it was fun I told you every week I'd do something fun on that thread last week was just not doing it so you guys had to do it and this week was doing it in reverse okay all right

besides that I did find some plenty of questions nonetheless let's have Cazelli 89 start us off with what's your opinion on dream sequences in film and what are some of your favorites Oh, that's a good one. I love me a good dream sequence,

as long as it's not the reveal that the whole movie was a dream. I can't get it down with that one. Would you count eternal sunshine of the spotless mind, like most of the movie? Sure. I guess it's more memories. Yeah, well, I mean, it is.

It's very dream-like. Yeah, I would call that dream sequences. Yeah, that would be some of the best ones ever right there. That's a good pick. That's the first thing I think of. Do the American Beauty sequences where Kevin Spacey's kind of imagining things, count as a dream sequence?

Does that him dreaming or daydreaming? Well, it's still like a dream sequence and he actually does have a dream doesn't he at one point? I can't remember. I don't remember. I haven't seen that in one.

He's looking at the ceiling and she's on the ceiling with the rose battles falling down. Yeah. Yeah, I would count that one. The same way I would count like, fuck. I don't know.

Would you count the train spotting when he's like rehabilitating from his heroin withdrawal? When he goes in the toilet. His withdrawal. The Baby on the ceiling. Feverdream hallucinations.

Those were well done, for sure. I would count that. Big Lebowski has an amazing one. Yes, that's one of the best ones. One of the funniest ones, absolutely. Inception. Just the whole movie. Not very creative with its...

I mean, that's the point, too, is that it's not very creative with its dreamscape. I wouldn't point to that is one of the best examples of like a dream because it's really tame. I think it was pretty creative. I think the concept for Insevon is really great. When I watch a dream sequence, I want crazy shit. And Inception's very mannered and like the craziest thing that happens is like, oh, there's a train in the street.

Like dreams are way weirder than that. They bend the city on itself, don't they in that movie? It's like the trailer show. Whatever. That happens every once in a while. Waking Life by Richard Lincoln. later. I don't think either of you have seen that though.

Okay. Yeah. Oh, maybe a good recommendation. Yeah, I think so. It's been on my list of things that I'll probably recommend at some point. Cool. Doesn't Brazil have some pretty good dreams sequences? Oh, yeah.

I would call that pretty great. Yeah, I love those. Yeah. Especially like the conclusion, which I'm not going to spoil. The only thing that I really don't like about dream sequences in films, especially horror movies is when as soon as it's happening I'm like, they're dreaming, they're dreaming, this isn't really happening, fuck off those ones suck, I agree with you.

It happens a lot in horror movies. Yeah, that's exactly what I was about to say. Oh no, the stakes are so high right now. No, they're not. You're asleep. Your friend didn't die. This was definitely not going to happen at this point in the film. Fuck off.

Scott Pulgram? Do those count when he's like in the in the oblivion desert area talking to a Ramona does that kind of a dream sequence What do you guys think about them in general though Like Is it

It depends on what they are Yeah like what you said When horror movies just fucking use it to trick you Into feeling suspense But it's not really happening It's horseshit Yeah But there's plenty of movies

That use it very effectively To show like what a character's inner desires are Like oh a racerhead Has a great one It has like the lady in the radiator or whatever. That's one of the most memorable ones. Radiator. I guess I say words differently.

Lubita. It's like we're from different countries or something. I think you're just saying them wrong. No, I'm saying I'm right. The American white radiator. It's fine. It's fine. I'll conform. Anyway, what are some of your favorites?

A few more. I like the one in Rango. Remember that movie? Oh, yeah. I love that one. Yeah. We touched the Clint Eastwood? Yeah.

Yeah. That's a great film. I love that. Oh, a serious man. Had a great one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Some great moments in that film.

I don't remember that one. Have you seen the movie? Yeah, serious. Here's a hint without really spoiling what happens in the scene. It's when the chalkboard, as he's teaching in class, it does a cut to a wide shot, and then you see it's like 30 feet tall. Oh, yeah, okay That was a great dream sequence Mm-hmm

That's a pretty good one Yeah, I think as long as they build character Or irrelevant and don't just use as a cheap gimmick Like you said about the horror movies You learn more about the character's insecurities too Yeah, exactly And you can make it visual That's the fun of it

Yeah You can get creative Because you don't have to work within the bounds of reality And you can get weird And people were forgiving Yeah, exactly It's like, oh, it's a dream It's like drug sequences and movies is another question like that.

I find those really fascinating. That's like the one area you're allowed to go all out. Just do whatever the fuck you want. Like train spotting. The more creative and trippy the better. Yeah. Depends on the drugs. Next one.

Depends on the drugs. Yeah. Deadstone 16 says, How many copyright strikes do each of you currently have? What's been your success rate since starting on YouTube? Oh, God. Can I count all of them right now? Yeah, but how many do we have now or how many have we gotten in the past?

How many copyright strikes do we each currently have, but also what's our success rate been since starting on YouTube? Well, I've fought and won every single copyright claim I've already received. It's just a matter of, unfortunately, the way the system is designed, you can't fight all of them at once or else you risk having your channel deleted. Because if all of them, like the, the, Pokemon videos I did, like every single one of them got copyright claim by ShowPro, and every single one of them, they escalate the claim and, you know, say it's not valid and then bring it to the point where there's a strike on my account and I have to send a counter-notification. So I can't possibly send all of these appeals at once, because if I send three appeals at once, knowing that they're going to respond to each of those appeals with takedown notices, then I have three strikes on my channel, and then my channel gets deleted. So I have to deal with them basically one in a time and decide which ones are the biggest priorities at any given moment. So right now, like, I've been fighting those show pro ones for like two years now. So like the last three parts, the three most recent parts of my Pokemon videos are still

not up, but they will be. Just give it some time. I'm fighting them. But yeah, it's really annoying. It's really annoying and it's unfortunate. And, yeah, I currently have strikes on my, like the, like, the play. plays through channel, which is like the, where I upload the full streams from my Twitch. And those are coming from parts of the soundtrack in a game called Trials Rising, which is a

really fun motorbike game. But I guess they just, because the soundtrack isn't, you know, original and they were just using other artists, you upload the video. It's like, oh, there's moments where you can hear just the soundtrack. And I guess I wasn't talking loud enough over it or something. And they claim it. And they're, you know, you can send your dispute and be like, okay, well, I'm playing a game. And you can't possibly. you can't possibly use my video as an alternative to purchasing the song. If anything, it advertises it. This is completely transformative.

And they're like, nope, we're going to strike on your account. And it just makes things more annoying. Because I can always fight and win. It's just like, oh, well, this is going to take a long time and be really annoying. I think there's a bit of confusion in general around the difference between strikes and copyright claims. Because claims are way more prevalent, I find, than strikes are. But everyone kind of just calls, they join them together. So a strike kind of means both when people talk about it, like in Twitter replies and YouTube comments and stuff.

Claims are really the problem. It's not the strikes. Yeah, I have countless claims. Yeah, I don't have any strikes now, but I have plenty of claims, most of which are dogass. But I'm scared to appeal some of them because. A, you have to give them your personal information, which sucks, and B, they just ignore it. And then when they finally get around on that, when their time is up to doing it, they just, they just claim it again.

We'll go into the second part, and then things get more serious, and it's just like, oh, thanks guys. For two seconds of my hour-long video, you get all of that, I guess. Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's really annoying. It's very annoying.

It's mostly inconvenient. At the end of the day, we usually win them because at the end of the day, what we're doing isn't illegal. But it's just a lot of waiting around, a lot of copy and pasting the same email again. I usually try to find... I email YouTube to tell me who...

Like, give me the email of the person who put the copyright strike on this thing or the claim on it. And I email them directly. That's usually what I do. And that usually gets things sorted out quick. Yeah, it depends. It's just...

It's just a slog. It's just a lot of waiting for fucking people to either release the claim because they know it's fine or they have to at some point because they realize what they're doing is wrong. Yeah. And the worst ones are the ones where it tells you when a claim has been manually done by like a team of people who work for a company. And it doesn't tell you the time code. There have been people who copyright claim my videos and say they have a song in it when they don't. and they don't put a time code either so I just like where the fuck is this song

and it's not even in the video and it gets removed later no it's a total waste of time it'll be great if YouTube had some kind of option where if you do get a few seconds of your video claims if you could cut it out or something and then the claims removed you can do that if it's actually

there's also a system that auto detects music and will mute it well you can choose to mute it or you can choose to have it monetized but they take the ad revenue whoever wrote the song. That option is there. The issue is when artists just manually claim these things with no time code or anything. They just say, my song is in this video, and it isn't.

It's just annoying. Yeah, some claimants are more respectful than others, because unfortunately, the system's set up in a way where, with most of them being automatic, you know, they just have their system set up in a way. And it's all controlled on the claimant's end, where all of these content managers in studios are saying, okay, well, yeah, let's just claim it. And then maybe if they fight it, maybe we'll release it. But the automatic assumption is that they own your video when nobody has reviewed it at all.

And unfortunately, the system is set up in a way where it's really easy for people to abuse it. Because most people don't know their rights, and most people are scared to fight claims. And so that creates a huge incentive for companies to just try to monetize every single video that exists being like, okay, well, you know, if I claim ownership over 100 different videos and only 20% of them fight back, then we're making 80% of the videos

revenue, right? Or the different videos. That's exactly what they do. So there's a financial incentive for companies to abuse the system, which is just the worst part about it. Like, that's why it is the way it is right now. Copyright's very complicated. And these companies have tons of money, too.

So it's a very daunting task to think you could take them on But if you're doing the right thing Then there should be no trouble And I've had very little trouble over the years with that Well it's gonna get worse in the UK soon or fucking anything Yeah I guess so I've lost that on some money because of bullshit demonetization But whatever

Yeah my entire old boy review wasn't monetized until after it had a million views Unfortunately damn Yeah. That sucks. Like work like five months on it. Oops. Yeah, that was lame. Those are always the ones that get claimed.

Yeah. Well, it got claims from both the old movie and the new movie. The old movie released it right away. The new movie just fucking didn't respond for a month. Of course. Spike Lee! God damn it. A while back, I made a review on the company called Asylum Films.

talking about how all of their movies are just rip-offs of other movies. And the way that they responded to the copyright claim on my video, like, I actually called them. I called them at the studio. And the fucking lady at receptionist was arguing with me. Like, first of all, you, I don't understand how you think you represent this company, just being the person that answers the phone there. Like, you're clearly not the content manager.

She was fucking she was trying to chew me out like yeah well you use clips from the movies so we own it I'm like what the fuck it was so weird Especially because it's the asylum and their their catalog is movies like trans morphers like you You're fucking calling me out on copyright shit like come on I know my rights you're being a dick That's hilarious yeah that sucked but I eventually got it taken care of obviously Yeah at the end of the day they always back down That's why it's never been an issue. It's hard, and it takes time, and it's a pain in the ass, but they always back down.

Because at a certain point, in order to continue blocking your video, they need to provide YouTube with proof that they're actually suing you, which most companies are not going to do, because that would be very bad PR. Because, like, worst case scenario, it's like, oh, they're going to sue you. You'd probably get enough donations from people that sympathize with you on the internet to cover your legal fees anyway, right? If you're in the right here, and they're just trying to censor what you have to say. Well, there's that H3 trial with that other guy who tried to sue him for using his video. Bold guy, right? Yeah. That was funny.

But, like, that case really did set a precedent. And I think a lot of companies will look toward that one if they ever have legal trouble with one of these YouTubers like us. Yeah. And just go, oh, okay, it's not worth it. Let's fuck off. Yeah, didn't Channel Chriswell have some issue for using, 2001 Space Odyssey footage in the UK he was being

Yeah there's many ins and outs to that That I am not at liberty to discuss publicly But it's it's taken care of I believe Yeah okay it's it's more complicated than you think it is I bet Well Canada's law is on copyright are way more relaxed than the US And I think the US is more relaxed Are you sure Europe or anywhere in Europe

It depends what you're talking about You guys, that Nirvana, the band, the show, they have, like, a lot of parody content that they apparently don't have to ask permission for. But if you were to do that in America, I think it would be different. No, that is less to do with how the laws are written. And that is more to do with individuals like Matt Johnson trying to set a precedent, right? Like, he's, he understands that you can make an argument for fair use in the way that it's being done. Like, you don't have to cover every single label. in in your in your movie you know like if you show like a disdani water bottle like it's if if i'm like

drinking a coke zero in one of my videos you know like you don't have to cover that up and i get i get that that's kind of different because it's trademark but in terms of yeah of copyright and fair use the idea is that now especially with the internet and how media is becoming so transformative and everything's kind of like a remix culture the idea is you have to be the change that you want to see There is no fair use that exists outside of case law, basically. So initially you have, like, Lens versus Universal Music Corporation, where they had a YouTube video of their baby dancing to a Prince song, but, like, the audio sucked, and you could hear, like, a vacuum,

and, like, the video was to show the baby, right? And they struck down the video and then Lenz sued Universal Music Corp. And that wound up setting a good precedent where, okay, legally, you have to be sure that you have the rights to the content and that it's not fair use if you want to strike down other people's videos. And now that obviously doesn't get applied everywhere because people are still doing it and companies know they can get away with it because, you know, the average person isn't going to sue for having their video removed. but you know there's countless examples especially in American fair use law of individual cases that wind up basically defining the law just by those cases existing you know and so that's that's kind of what Matt Johnson is doing in a sense where like okay are you really going to sue me just for using this song in this way where it's obviously a parody you know like are you really going to do that and if it winds up going to court then maybe we can set a precedent Yeah. I think if he did that in the U.S. on a major television network, he would get sued immediately. Well, the show was in the U.S. on Vicerland. It's a show made in Canada, but the network is American. So it is technically a U.S. show in a way when it comes to, like, copyright and fair use.

So. That's all I was thinking watching it, because I started watching it recently, like the last month. And I think it's great, but there's so much, like, stuff like that, copyright content. I was curious how it all worked. Well, it's just the reason why you don't see a lot of that is because most people don't have the balls to do it. You know, like the film, the lawyer working for Nirvana the band The Show is the same one that was hired for Escape for Tomorrow. Escape from Tomorrow. Oh, no shit.

That's great. Yeah, so they got in touch after they met at a film festival, I think probably at Sundance or something. Oh yeah, because his Matt Johnson's 2013 movie The Dirties was screening at the same festival as Escape From Tomorrow and I think that's how they got in touch If anybody who's listening, Escape from Tomorrow is a movie that was filmed entirely in Disneyland Without Their Permission And it makes Disneyland look like the worst fucking place on Earth

Yeah, it's pretty great It is pretty funny It's not a great movie Like I don't even think I wouldn't recommend anyone watch it but it's fun just for that concept, just to see them fuck around with Disney like that. In terms of like fair use and copyright, it's you have to be the change you want to see.

Like, don't go out of your way and do something very obviously illegal. It's like, you know, you're probably not going to have a good time if you're trying to claim fair use of uploading the entirety of a movie with zero commentary. But if you truly believe that what you're doing is transformative and does not serve as a replacement for the original market, I say just fucking do it.

Like we need more case law. If this shit goes to court and it's very clearly transformative, you'll have the entire internet behind you. You know, people will pay your legal fees because everybody wants more freedom in our art forms and what we can do with art. And the more of these court cases that we have that support that, the better. Like already there's a fair amount where it's like, okay, transformative use of art is a good thing and we should be allowed to do it.

Yeah, also fair use is a very loose term, and it applies to a lot. Like, we have some stipulations as to what fair use is, like written down. But, like, the only way to tell with some of this shit is to just have a trial over it. Yeah. Because that's how it gets decided. And that's a good thing, though. Yeah, that's how it gets decided. It is a good thing.

So you're right about that. When fair use law was being written, it was specifically written in a way that acknowledged that they don't understand what media is going to look like in 10 years from now. They didn't under, you know, like you, it had to be with enough leniency and that's why there is no set amount. There's no, it never says like more than 30 seconds. Technically, by fair use law, you can upload the entire movie. Like, you can do that as long as you believe or you can make a reasonable argument

that the entire film being uploaded is absolutely. necessary to make your own transformative version of it, to make your own case that it was necessary for the commentary or criticism or whatever you're doing with it. In most cases, that would be ridiculous. Length doesn't matter at all. Which is why, you know, the

Adam and Powell's commentaries that I upload on my channel, I make sure that there's no dead air. I'm not unnecessarily putting clips of the film in that don't add to the jokes or the context of the jokes. Everything that's in there is necessary to be able to make the comedy criticism aspect of it.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Whereas uploading the entire movie would be superfluous. You could use two seconds of a copyrighted song in a non-fair use way or what would be considered non-fair use, and you get sued over that. That's illegal. Yep. It's just the way copyright laws is so weird.

I would, well, technically there's, you can't say that it would be illegal or not illegal. And even if there were no direct commentary and criticism on something like that, if the usage is so small, there's actually something called, I think, minuscule, or it might be incidental fair use. There's different types of fair use. Yeah, insignificant.

Yeah. And so... But you could still, you can't just go, I'm going to use five seconds of a song and it's okay in my movie because you can't. If you were to do that, that's not. It depends. It depends how insignificant it is. If you had a reason and you transformed it, sure. There's an argument to be made. You can't just say that. that's not possible because by how fair use is written, that technically is possible. And I'm not

going to say like, oh yeah, definitely 100% or definitely 0% because it is vaguely written enough that it does allow for that. And you could make a case for it. You just have to have a good lawyer and argue it and know that what you're doing is not really taking away from the original market at all. I think the minuscule defense was used in David Fincher's 7 during the opening sequence of the film, there were photographs that he did not have the permission to use in the film. And there was no like commentary or criticism to be taking place about these photographs. And they weren't absolutely necessary for the film. But it wound up winning in court because it was so insignificant to try and claim any sort of damage or ownership over, over them being used.

You know, you have to think about it from the perspective of like, okay, if you're suing for damages, what damages are you reasonably suing for? How can you claim that you lost revenue or that somebody is taking revenue from you by using these in that way? So there's a lot that is possible, and that's the best part about fair use, is that there are... It's very complex. There are very few hard limitations on what you can do, and it is complex, but I think it's complex. I'm just saying like doesn't matter. Like doesn't matter. Size doesn't matter. Size doesn't matter quote Ralph there was a there was a poster there was a poster that was copyrighted and they wanted to use it in a movie so they just like spray painted a cross on it and that made it

transformative you're talking about the hillt have eyes right yeah something like that yeah where they had like they had the jaws poster ripped in half in the background so it's like the commentary being made was like oh yeah you thought jaws was cool well the hills have eyes is even better and then in Evil Dead they did the same thing where they took the Hills Have Eyes poster and ripped it in half and had it on the wall it's kind of like a nod

which is kind of cool but that's the thing though is like if you think that what you're doing is so insignificant that they're not going to sue you over it anyway like that's that's the goal that's winning in a sense where it's like oh you're not going to sue me over that like come on

yeah sorry about my little rant no you know a lot about It's good. You gave a whole talk, right? It was like an hour long talk about copyright. That's some place. Yeah, that was at RTX.

The videos on my vlog channel for anybody that wants to watch it. Next question. Epic. I have one here that is... Let me just read it. Lutante... I'm sorry, these names, they're so bizarre. Hey boys, what are your thoughts on the human?

Caterpillar. Do you believe it's necessary and meaningful or just gross for the sake of being gross? You mean the human centipede? Is that what they were trying to talk? The human caterpillar? It obviously means a human centipede, but... Unless there's something else going on. I double-took when I read it. Yeah. I want to see that movie more than I want to re-watch the human centipede movies to be fair.

I've never seen the human centipede, any of them. Oh, you haven't? Really. Because you were shit talking about shit. No, they looked like shit. Because you were you were I thought you would watch them and hated them because you were shit talking them in an earlier episode. I remember I'd see parts of like the actual human centipede part where they're fucking sewing each other's mouths. I saw some of that. It's disgusting See, I I think that the the first film is a good kind of guilty pleasure for me. The second film is actually so

so over the top and so self-aware that I kind of love it. I haven't seen it a while, but it's like there's there's there's memorable moments from from that movie that will always stay with me like it it's the goal is to be provocative and uh extreme and gross and get a reaction out of you and i feel like the second human centipede film does a much better job at that than something like a serbian film which i just found to be mostly boring um the the third human centipede was pretty bad it was like it was like not even entertaining i can't remember anything about it the second one is is pretty great in my opinion. Like, it's enjoyable.

It's not like a technically great film in terms of like filmmaking qualities, but it's really fun. Alex? The last time I watched the second one, it pissed me off so much. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

When did that film come out? I can't remember how old it would have been, maybe 18 or so. That's the last time I would have seen it. And I remember it just being instead of me liking it because of how provocative it was it seemed like it was kind of being edgy just for the sake of being edgy

and it was that actually didn't really anything to say it was just kind of like oh come on man and the first one as well it's so stupid the only reason it exists is because of how just out there the title is as soon as you hear the title then everyone's like what that's so so so gross

I don't want to watch that movie but I kind of do want to see it because it sounds so crazy. Yeah. It doesn't really live up to its name. It's a movie that kind of was one of those early meme movies, something that got so much hype just because it looked so ridiculous, like snakes on a plane.

Like, that was a really early meme movie. Exactly like that. Yeah. But I think that, you know, they're not great. Like, there's a lot of bad acting and stuff, but I find them pretty entertaining. The second one especially. The first one has some boring bits that are made up for by terrible acting, which is entertaining to me. But, I don't know, I'll have to see them again.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's the second one's a bottom rated movie's number 87 on IMDB. Really? That's surprising. With a 3.8, which seems like... When you have scenes like what happens towards the end, I'm not surprised.

Yeah. It's got... The film loves being hated, though. Yeah. That's what it likes so much. Exactly. Because it stirs conscious. It's like a von Trir movie.

Yeah. Might as well be. Yeah. Just less artistically creative, I guess. Let's do one from Boobar, who says, can you think of the worst possible sequel to your favorite movie? Godfather 3? It's called The Lion King 2, and it already exists.

It's not my favorite movie. Do one that doesn't exist. The Holy Mountain, too? how could you even possibly start doing that where do you begin under the skin too that would be a weird one yeah I don't know if there's much for me to be able to say about this question

because it's like yep there's unnecessary sequels that exist I don't know how I don't know how to like when you say worst possible that means that like there would be such a thing as a good version I don't know like when you say worst possible sequel to like the Holy Mountain. Well, what's your answer, Alex? For worst possible sequel.

For me, we mentioned the Big Lobowski earlier. There's a little string they leave in that movie that you can imagine a sequel to because the pregnant, you know, he has a son or daughter, a baby basically.

And they would make a sequel with him? Can you imagine? Like a son of the mask type sequel with the Big Lobowski's like kid and they call it like the kid Lobowski. or something. You can imagine the poster right now, like one of those, not even Adam Sandler,

like Adam Sandler's D-tier, like friend-type movie. That's what I picture in my head. And I can just imagine how... Sounds like a joke now, but they'll probably do it in 10 years. Just give them some time. Well,

the dude on Twitter was teasing something before the Super Bowl that was Big Lobowski-related, so I was like, oh no. They're not doing it, are they? They're not making a sequel. Surely not.

But it just turned out to be like an advert, one of the Super Bowl ads. So that was a side relief. Although, John Tarturo apparently is making a movie about his character from the Big Lobowski that's come out this year. Like a spin-off that has nothing to do with the Critton brothers. So, I mean, that could be an answer that comes to fruition. Yeah. Citizen Kane, too. This time it's personal.

There are, there's some examples of, like, films that got sequels that, where the names actually make no sense. Oh, yeah. Where, like, the title of the film is like, oh, why can't I think of one right now?

Something that implies that it's the end. So, like, I don't know, the Last of Us 2. Things kind of along that. I'm going to look up worse sequel titles. Titanic 2. Yeah. Yeah, things that actually make. no sense. Well there's electric

bugaloo. Yeah, that's a famous episode. And I've never seen that one. The best one. Titanic 2, electric boogaloo. I'm not sure what I can say about this question really. Like I'm not gonna... Piranha 3 double D I like that title.

I'm not gonna try to write a script for the Holy Mountain 2 in my head. What would happen? You should do that and read your scripts on the So then it goes for us to review. Yeah, I'll do that. It actually just gets funded.

A producer shows interest. It gets me. How about the die-hard sequels? Because those all have really awful titles. Yeah. And they're all pretty bad. I actually like three and four. I like one and three.

Yeah, I like two. Two was boring. I didn't like four at all. Four is stupid as fuck. It's better than five, though. Yeah. What are the names? I turn into die hard, dying harder?

Die Hardest. Yeah. Do hastimish. Die Hard too, die harder. Die hard with a vengeance. Did you see the one with... What's he called? Jai Courtney in it?

Did you see that one? A Good Day to Die Hard. That one is so fucking bad. It's one of the worst movies I'd go through. But then there was another one after that one, wasn't there? A Good Day to Die Hard. No, that was it. That was the one with Jai Courtney.

Oh, was it? The one before it was Live Free or Die Hard. That was with Justin Law. Oh my God. My brain is... actually melting. I've heard the word die hard so many times in the last few minutes I just can't keep track anymore.

You know, Bruce Willis is still in like these straight to DVD movies. I watch some of them. They're so bad, but it's hilarious because he's only on set for like one day. Nice. And they have to like make these scenes work. You can tell they're all shot in one day. He's usually in like one room the whole movie.

Has he cared about a single film in the last decade, that man? No. I think the last one he cared about was Moonrise Kingdom maybe, Looper. That's it, though. I don't know. He's funny. He's just counting his money.

Yeah. He doesn't really try anymore. Okay, let's move on to one from Freddy the Beast. Are there any examples of supposed holes in great director's filmmaking that you think exist? For example, the idea that Chris Nolan supposedly can't film a fight scene. Anything like that? Pop into your mind? Wow, way to go after Chris Nolan.

Yeah, I mean, I've never seen. anything like spectacular in terms of a fight scene from Christopher Nolan other than maybe like how creative some of them were in inception where they were you know flying flying around like that was fucking amazing yeah that's one of the best fight scenes I've ever seen yeah it was really creative and cool um I'm just trying to think about the bad ones are in Batman begins yeah they're actually bad in that movie but aside from that I mean I think it's mostly fine he doesn't really do them that often I think the one Batman versus Bain was pretty good

except not the one at the end the one in the middle I just thought the sound design was kind of over the top but that's it yeah I think it's a good fight to answer the question I'd actually answer the same director but for a different reason I have a major issue with the way he writes dialogue

with his brother I agree I think it was after the Dark Night I think the Dark Night was the last one where it wasn't like insanely noticeable that whenever characters talk, they're just like these tools that don't really have any personality

and they're just there to explain the plot and move it along. It's really bad and interstellar. Yeah, that's one. Dark Night Rises. And yeah, of course, Star Night Rises. That's really his weakness is like dialogue writing and character writing.

Unless it's based on a previously existing character. He doesn't like know. what to do. It seems like he's not really interested in it. He's like so interested in the scope and scale of everything that they're just like something he has to have in there because you have a type of characters. He treats a lot of characters like they're just props to move the story along. That's my biggest issue with him. That's why I love Don Kirk is because he doesn't even pretend to give them characters. He's like, these are just people and you're going to watch them around. It makes his movies feel quite cold and sort of detached when you just.

just, they don't feel like people. That's my issue. There's no, there doesn't feel natural. That's my issue with the, with no one. Yeah, I guess it depends on how, uh, how great of a director we're talking here in terms of answering this question. I mean, Quentin Tarantino's got some flaws, I guess. There's sometimes where I feel like his films are more trying to be what the audience expects of him, than him just being organic. I get that impression sometimes. At this point anyway, like it used to be super organic. But with films like, you know, even points in glorious bastards and Django Unchained, it just felt like, oh, this is what people want because they're watching a Quentin Tarantino movie.

I don't know if you guys feel that way. I agree with that too. Always devolves into a shootout. I think he has another issue too where not in every film, but in some of them, every character kind of feels like Quentin Tarantino. They all kind of speak in a similar way and, I don't know, there's just a style of writing. And I think the worst one is death proof for that, personally.

We need to talk about that movie at some point. Yeah, we do. We really do. Which movie? Death proof. Death proof? Death proof. Oh, yeah, death proof is really bad.

I think that's the worst case of it. I think that's the worst case of that issue. Yeah. Yeah, but we'll talk about it. Yeah, I love that movie. Yeah, I know. That's why I'm interested. Yeah, same.

We'll do it. We'll see. Yeah, I was going to say, Wes Anderson and the dialogue. I'm getting kind of sick of his stilted dialogue that all sounds like it's written by him. But I'm in a minority on that, so. So we basically all have the same type of issue with all of those three directors, basically. Yeah, I mean, their directing's great, but sometimes they're right. is not as great as they're directing.

Exactly. I mean, Quentin Tarantino is a great writer too, but. Yeah, Tarantino, I don't have that issue with. With him, it just always kind of boils down to the same thing. It's like, no matter how clever the script was, it ends with the characters in a room, and they all have guns, and they all shoot each other. Yeah. It's like, okay, Quentin, why don't you think of another resolution?

Yeah. Most of the directors I consider to be really great don't have a lot of flaws. in terms of how they present their films. Yeah, the extremely great ones. Like Kubrick, I can't think of fucking anything. Like M-night. Yeah. The modern-day Kubrick.

Yeah. I think they've got a couple left here. Scat Autotune 7103 says, has a film ever frustrated you so much that it bothered you for days, specifically because of the immense talent behind it? Frustrated me and that it's bad? Because there's, like, great movies that have frustrated me.

It doesn't say bad, so it just means any movie that's frustrated you. Hmm. To a... That's a weird question. I'm not sure how to answer that. Yeah. Well, in terms of, like, a bad movie, identity thief is always one, I think, of, like, being really frustrating. So that's what pops into your head and instantly...

Yeah, that goes right to my head. When you think about a frustrating movie that pissed you off. Well, because it's just... It's a kind of. comedy with a character who's not funny at all about a subject matter that's not funny. And it's like trying to present her as like this good person. That's really what I find just obnoxious about it. No, that films.

Oh, he'll fuck about identity thief. It's fine. Maybe I'll recommend that one day. Please don't. I would say interstellar. We just mentioned it. Yeah. That film is so excellent in basically everything presentation-wise.

But it's films like that that I find the most frustrating where there are so many positives about it. Even things like the Dark Crystal are kind of frustrating in that sense where you want to like it so much more because there is so much to appreciate. But the kind of core molten lava center of it is so flawed that it kind of makes the movie compound on itself. It's true love. By that point you're saying, what's this movie now? I'd say us is a good answer too. Yeah, no, that is also, basically every movie we've talked about in this episode. This is like the frustration episode.

Lost potential episode. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I could say the same thing about the Congress starring Robin Wright, which you probably haven't seen. But it's definitely worth watching. It's really, there's so much cool stuff about it. but there's also so much lacking. I put it at the very,

at the very bottom of my, like, 2014 list or something, 2013 list. I think it probably should have been in the guilty pleasure section. But, you know, it's just, it's weird to describe. Like, it's so incredibly creative, but there's

some things that just don't work that well. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I want to watch that one one day. I love Robin Wright. Should you do one more? Yeah, we can do one more. Let's do this one from Ashbury Street. I'd be interested to hear Yarl's opinions on cult classic movies. Ones that were met with mixed response on release but have huge fan bases now.

Donnie Darko and the Big Lobowski come to mind. People might suggest others. Thanks. The Dark Crystal. I think Under the Silver Lake, Dark Crystal, Under the Silver Lake is bound for that kind of reputation. Yeah, I was thinking that when it came up earlier. Yeah. Yeah, it is one of those.

Like, people will love it. Like, it'll have a solid fan base, but not everyone is going to feel that way about it. Yeah, people are already, like, taking footage from the movie and reversing it, trying to find, like, hidden meetings. There's a subreddit. It's pretty funny. There's a subreddit. Yeah, there's a whole subreddit. They're, like, going to real locations and scouting them out.

Yeah. It really depends on the movie. There's some cult things that just don't connect with me that much that almost feel like people who love it are just blunt. by nostalgia or something. I don't know, like Tank Girl, I thought wasn't great. Oh, yeah. You know, apparently people love it, but it's also based on, like, a comic book or something that might

have something to do with it. Does Blade Runner count as a cult movie? Yeah. It kind of does. Yeah, it kind of fits in that same conversation. Kind of weird out there, science fiction. I'd say Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I love that one.

Yeah. Would you say that's a cult movie? Yeah, I would. Yeah. I would too, but I fucking love that one. I would even say shit like Bermic in the room. Yeah, in terms of like so bad they're good movies.

The cult classics, yeah. Strong fan base, but not necessarily, you know, a gigantic blockbuster. Yeah. Although now the room's like mainstream. Yeah. Tommy Waiso is a mainstream star. He's on talk shows and the award shows.

Yeah. And he's still doing stuff, isn't he? Can't even call him a cult anymore. Do you see the trailer for his new Shark Attack movie or whatever it's called? Nope I refuse to watch it Fuck what he's doing now Yeah

He's no Neil Breen Is it worth watching? Exactly, he's not as good as Neil Breen You saw his new movie, you know, it sucks His best best friends, is that it? Yeah, well he didn't direct that There's some other one he's in too, I think Yeah, he's just in it

Yeah Yeah, we'll see how his shark attack Or whatever it's called is It just doesn't work as well when he's trying to be funny. Yeah, when they try to be part of the joke. It's not genuine anymore. Made them funny.

Yeah. Which is why Neil Green is a god. Continue buying his films. I still gotta see his new one. It's great. Is it out on DVD yet? Yes. Can I request it from his website?

Yeah. Cool. I'm going to do that. And hope that he doesn't refund you without telling you. Because the, the, uh, the, he had it listed on his website. as having two different options, one being NTSC, North America and Canada,

and then PAL for international with different shipping. But then I ordered mine the NTSC, North America, and Canada. And then I guess he changed his website and moved Canada into the international PAL one, but we don't use PAL. And so he refunded me without telling me,

and I had to send him a message like, hey, I get, like, I'll pay for the international shipping of the shipping's more. But can you, uh, send me an NTSC DVD Instead he's like okay I still don't have it We'll see when it shows up

It might take a while It's always a bit of a challenge Trying to buy one of his films It's part of the experience Oh tremors is a good one for like films like that Oh yeah A cult classic sort of movie Trammers is good

Yeah I mean Cult classic movies exist Some of them will connect with you more than others A lot of people really love Rocky Horror Picture show I think it's fine I can understand why people love it. I love the evil dead movies a lot. Yep.

Those are so much fun to me. John Carpenter movies, like they live in the thing and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. They're a great example. I mean, actually, honestly, a lot of the films we've talked about and recommended on this very podcast,

a lot of them are kind of culty movies, like the Heavenly Mountain, I think, is one of these cult movies as well. Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. Depends what your tastes are. And not every cult movie is the same. So it's kind of difficult to answer that question.

Yeah. With like an umbrella over all of them. I like Donnie Darko. I haven't seen it since I was like 15 or something. Yeah, I was going to say, does that film hold up? I haven't seen it since. It was like my favorite movie ever when I was 13. It's pretty good still.

I think there's issues, but I think it's still pretty good. Oh, cool. Right, that's all the questions I have. Nice. Cool. Good job, Alex. Good selection. Batabab boom.

I think I've got a movie to recommend. It is your turn. I think it's my turn. This is a film that since the beginning of the podcast, I knew that we had to have a discussion on at some point. And I feel like now's the time. And it's a criterion movie directed by, by Chantal Ackerman, if that's how I pronounce her name.

The full title. I guess I'll give you the first part of the title. It's Jean Diehlman, J-E-A-N-N-E, space, D-I-E-L-M-A-N. Full title, 23, Kaidou Commerce, 1,0-420, Brussels. Holy fuck. It's like, what? Yeah. And I'm not going to say much about it.

It's a Criterion movie directed by... It's scaring me. Yeah. It will provoke a discussion. It's a long film. It's almost three and a half hours long. What? Wow.

Cool. I'm not going to tell you anything about it or what to think about it. But I hope that we get an interesting. discussion from this film. Okay. I've already forgotten the title. I'll send you the IMDB link.

Yeah. Yeah. Send us that because I'm going to have a hard time finding it. Yeah, I hope I can find it. Nice and easy. I got the criteria in Blu-ray. I'm sure it'll be available somewhere. Say it one more time for the listeners in case they want to look up. Jin Diehlman

and then 23, which I just said in French before, Kai du Commerce, so Q-U-A-I-S-D-U-U-S-C-O-M-M-E-R-C-E, 1080, Brousel. Oh, I found it. Yeah, you found it. Okay. Yeah. It'll certainly provoke some interesting discussion,

and I'm very excited. I'm very excited. talk about this movie with the two of you. Mm-hmm. All right. I will get right on that. Should I get it on Blu-ray? If you want, I mean, that's probably the best way to watch it.

Probably is. Yeah, I've got the Blu-ray. All right. So that's the recommendation for the next episode. If you don't want to be spoiled for it, check it out before the next episode. If you want to support the show, $2 a month on sardonicast.com. Sign up for premium.

You'll hear these episodes early. Also, $2 a month on patreon.com slash sardonicast. We'll do the same thing. Is our merch link working? It should be up on YouTube now. Okay. Yeah, I checked. It looks good.

Yeah, has YouTube integration. So if you're on YouTube, you can look under. I'll find some kind of link. But if you want to find it, head over to the YouTube channel. and it's under every video. Awesome. Well, thank you, everybody, for joining our discussion of the dark crystal, aka methamphetamine.

We'll see you guys next episode. Yeah, we'll see you. Thanks for listening. Thank you guys. Happy April Fool's Day. Yep, bye. Bye, bye.