Sardonicast - Sardonicast #39: The Lion King, Eraserhead

Episode Date: July 29, 2019

Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/9vG73zS Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthe... Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovi... Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkind... Timecodes: 00:00 - Intro 1:45 - Cats Trailer 9:37 - Hellboy 26:02 - Lion King (not the remake) 47:10 - Eraserhead (SPOILERS) 1:29:40 - Q&A Fanart: https://reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comm... https://reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comm... https://reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comm... Alex's recommendation for next episode is Death Proof.

Three, two, one. Hi, this is Frankie MacDonald, my own TV station in Nova Scotia. Attention, citizens of the internet. Onion rings, warning in southern Australia. Have you ever seen Frankie MacDonald? No. Oh, he's a national treasure. He's a Canadian man who is incredibly autistic and has found his passion doing weather reports.

on YouTube and they're great and he throws in other random videos as well uh sometimes him dancing sometimes him pretending to eat 50 hot dogs well i got to check this out oh man yeah there's always uh it's a healthy mix it's a good variety show channel partly informative or partly entertaining but he's got a beautiful soul and i probably wouldn't pay attention to the weather if it weren't for him. Anytime he makes a video talking about how a snowstorm's going to come or how a heat wave's going to come, I'm like, hey, I actually know about it this time. I wouldn't, I never remember to look up the weather unless it's Frankie McDonald's just telling me. He's great. How are you doing? Good. How are you doing? Yeah. Pretty tired. Yeah, I think we're all tired. I got like four

hours of sleep. Yeah, we're all tired? Okay, great. It's not just me this time. Yeah, man. everybody we're all in a sardonic mood yes how'd you feel watching the best most epic trailer for a movie that's going to get released this Christmas called cats oh cats oh boy everyone's seen this trailer I feel like everyone I know I know right I don't know if everyone seen this trailer as much of those like four screenshots that are being paddled around everywhere like the worst the James Gordon the Rebel Walsettison The shot at the end of that one's singing. It's like the new Sonic, and it hasn't been that long.

So, I don't know, are they going to redesign these? Are they going to do the same thing? This looks like it's too far gone to me. The amount of work they'd have to add extra. Oh, yeah. This is what pisses me off so much. Why is the film not just animated? Either animated or just them in costumes.

Yeah, like makeup. I want to appreciate the dance choreography, And how am I supposed to do that when it's a bunch of CIGy models floating around? It's like, yeah, you can just alter that after, right? So who cares? Not just that, but like they really... It's just a part of it. The design is the biggest issue for me.

The design is terrifying. Like, the human face nose and then just like the ears that don't look like they're actually their ears at all. Yeah, how am I supposed to have CG for? Like, just pick one. You could, if it was going to look like that anyway, and you weren't going to attempt to do some sort of like furry anthro version, you know, just uncanny value, you might as well have just done makeup, right? I'm sure that looks like similar-ish to the Broadway musical version, right?

I would prefer costume. Yeah, costume, why not? It's distracting. Honestly, any other decision? Yeah. Any other choice would have been better. Seriously, what could be worse than this? It's immediately dated the movie.

It's not going to hold up. Oh, yeah, it looks like that. And it's so frustrating because, like, what if the film is actually okay or quite good? I don't think it's going to be based on cats, which is like apparently one of the worst shows. I've never even seen it. Everyone I know doesn't like cats. Apparently it has no story. I don't know how they're going to make it into a movie because it involves a lot of like the crowdwork and audience participation.

Right. Which isn't going to be a thing. So I have no idea. I don't know. I don't know what they're planning with this. And the thing is the guy who made it is the guy who made King's Speech and Lane Mace. Tom Hooper. Which are like, yeah.

There's so many Oscar winners behind this project. Right. It's crazy. But it also has that look. It looks like a, it looks so serious. Like it has that color palette and everything. Oh yeah. But it's like cats.

It's like this stupid. Is cats a serious play? I don't think so. Maybe he didn't know how to implement the special effects necessary for what they were trying to achieve. I mean, maybe it's something as simple as that. Yeah, maybe just nobody gave a shit. Maybe they were all like, okay. money I guess

I'm looking at I have the trailer pause at the basically the tagline before the date it says this holiday season

you will believe at the end of the trailer what do you what will I believe cats what do you mean I'll believe the effects

the story like what are you trying to tell me here I feel like most tag lines are pretty bad nowadays. Like, it's rare to see a good one. But at least they feel like related to the movie.

That one is just like, like they just pulled it out their ass. Yeah, what is that? Yeah, we believe in us. Yeah, that would do. God, it's so lazy. I really want to know what is causing this very clear and pervasive problem in Hollywood

where apparently they don't know how to hire people that know anything about character design. Why is that a thing now? Why is that like a trend? It's not like, oh, it's cheaper if it's designed more poorly. In the case of Sonic, it's more expensive. They had to spend more money trying to fix it. You know, just what happened to people who know what they're talking about

and why did they get forced out of the industry or something? Like, what happened? I think it's like an issue of trying to put a human face on a CGI model. It just doesn't look good unless... Well, yeah, that's... You're like, bad decision. The effects, yeah, it's a very bad decision. It's not a, it's not about like talent going into, oh yeah, how are they going to fix this up?

It's just a bad concept. What I'm wondering is why all these bad design choices are happening in the first place. That didn't used to happen a lot. You know, if you had a lot of money behind something, chances are the characters were at least designed well. Chances are there's somebody who knew what they were talking about. Well, we couldn't rely on CG as much, though, back then. I think that's what the issue is. We're in this weird, like, middle period where CG is exceptional,

but it can't quite do the things that a lot of filmmakers are trying to pull off with it. I guess so. Yeah. Just yet. You'd think that that would be only as common as, like, really unsettling, creepy-looking, animated characters in general. Because, like, Sonic isn't a dude in a mocap suit getting some, you know, the side of his face replaced. The character is built from scratch. So I'm wondering why that's a design poorly in the first. first place, just because it's CG doesn't mean it has to be terribly designed. I don't know why this

is happening. I'm so confused about it. Do you think it might be a, oh, let's just sort of figure this out in post type thing. They don't do enough sort of pre-production design work. It could be something as simple as that. I think it's an issue of people that think they know what they're talking about, but they're just studio bigwigs that have no idea how to create art. I think it's an issue of them having too much control and power over a project. Because 100%, the people that, people that animate every single one of these movies, they're thinking, oh, God, this looks like shit. I wish they would listen to me. I keep telling them it looks like shit and nobody's listening.

100% that's happening, right? So it's, I'm just wondering, like, why don't they trust people? You know, the average person is not going to think this looks good. How did this trailer for cats get past so many people before they're like, oh, oops? It's astonishing. Yeah, because delusional producers are in charge. Is everybody afraid to tell them maybe? I don't know.

Were they told anything? That's honestly partly it. It got to this stage. It got to this stage where like literally everybody thinks it looks like shit. How did you get it to the stage? I wonder if they test screened it. I wonder if people who go to test screenings are sometimes just like pretending to like something because they got invited to a test screening.

Yeah, I'm sure at the test screening, they lather you up a little. But even so, it's... I would be surprised. I don't, you know. Yeah, like, are you going to test screen a trailer? Is that a thing? Maybe to, like, your friends. They do do that.

Wait, you're going to get an entire theater together, a little dinner plate and hors d'oeuvres for two minutes? Yeah, like Disney can do that. The big companies do that. Hmm. I wonder. Yeah. Come on in.

watch a trailer. Yeah. Well, this wasn't made by Disney, I guess. Universal Pictures. Oh, they're who responsible is it? Yep. Universal. It's a very funny trend.

Behind a despicable me, the mummy, Fast and Furious. Jurassic World. Do they do this Jurassic Park? Jurassic Park. They got a moneymaker. It'll be fine if cat bombs.

Yeah, they'll be okay. Yeah, they'll survive. If Disney was smart, they'd buy them just for cats. You know who won't be okay? Lionsgate. Oh, yeah. Lionsgate control. Yeah.

John Wick did well. They made John Wick. But they made Hellboy also, which I saw recently. You guys saw Halboy. Yeah, I saw it as same as it came out. And I really, I couldn't believe how bad it was. It was shocking. It was seriously awful.

I thought it was going to be bad compared to Guillermo's movies, but fuck it was like terrible yeah I have my grapes with it I wish that I could like just get a cut of some of the cool action scenes that I liked and maybe the movie would be like 15 minutes long by the end of it and that would just be the whole movie for me and I wouldn't have to see the rest of it because I didn't hate everything there were some parts that were cool well yeah for me it had one scene that I liked sort of in the middle of the movie it was a fight scene with the same kind of strange like creature that was like crawling all over the floor and stuff I thought that was the best sequence by far I like the fight scene with the giants I didn't think that was terrible I thought that was really goofy yeah it was goofy yeah I think it was trying to be how familiar are you with Neil Marshall like which of his films have you seen uh not many dissent right yeah you shouldn't judge him on the descent I saw dissent too yeah the dissent's amazing but I don't think it's like super reflective of his whole character.

If you watch a movie like Doomsday, which is kind of bad but really funny also, but it has that same goofiness that it's going for where it's just like, yeah, a bunch of gore and there's some jokes. It almost feels like a trauma film in some senses, but I guess a bit better produced. So I wasn't really caught off guard by the whole goofiness thing. However, I think that most of the jokes were shit Most of the jokes were awful

The attempts of humor were just so so embarrassing in this movie Mostly because none of the characters are likable Your lead character is just unbearable to watch Yeah, there's nothing to look at no place you can attach to you And his prosthetics are terrible Like half his face is fucking drooping down It looks really bad How does it look worse than that one from nearly 20 years ago?

Yeah Yeah Everything about that film was better than this. And I just thought back to the lavish worlds he made in that movie. And then this is just like shot in the woods and shot in houses. And like it's so boring. Everything about it is so boring compared to those first two. That's like so important to making Hellboy like interesting or work even as a concept.

I think it has to be hyper stylized. Like the original source material is hyper stylized. Like crazy sharp colors and contrast. The crazy animals. Like I can imagine like a spiderverse kind of style animated film. I feel like I say this for every like blockbuster that comes out. Like where actually looks like he does in the comics. It's like a great comic design.

Like there's so much there, but it's just just dropped the ball so hard with this live action stuff. It's just there's nothing. Yeah. It's problem is at its core. It's not necessarily like terribly shot in every scene, you know, but nothing. thing really matters, not even like the cool parts that I liked matter in the grand scheme of things if you have no likable characters and nothing interesting is happening in the plot. I couldn't even tell you what the plot was.

I don't remember. Like what happened? She was going to resurrect those monsters. Yeah. Milojovich. And he was like, Milovovich. And he was like Milovovich. Oh, okay.

But she wanted all of her limbs back together. Yeah. So they did that. like the pig monster gathered all over limbs and then she resurrected all those monsters like the CGI monsters that killed people but they didn't do anything with that they just like made that for the trailer I think

yeah and then Hellboy was like I don't want to be a bad boy and fly around on a dragon so I guess I'll be a good boy instead and then his friend T.Fed and became a cat and yeah that's all I remember really it was trying to be like deadpool for some way yeah that was what i took away from that rated art comedy hellboys kind of like this dick bag like excessive violence yeah i liked the violence i didn't

think that the violence too it was like the one thing that had me engaged a little refer that was like neil marshall for sure that's him mm-hmm it's just i don't know what the rest of this movie was i don't know how much i can blame on him also right i really don't know yeah If the material is shit, what you're supposed to do? Exactly. How you're supposed to spin like a web out of shit? Yeah. I don't know who could have done a better job adapting that script into a movie.

King Arthur's Sword was involved in the plot, remember? He had to fuck King Arthur's Sword? Yeah. What the fuck was that? I don't think that was based on any comic from Hellboy. I think they just made that up. Yeah, and it was just in the basement. I don't understand, though.

It was crazy. They made this film, right? like a reboot of Hellboy effectively and Guillermo's been fighting to make the third one for a while like why did they not go down that path now he's an Oscar winner they could like use that to their advantage because they're dumb but instead they reboot it yeah they're dumb yeah it's uh

Lionsgate is trying to tap into the superhero market and I guess maybe they didn't feel as though the first two films were superheroy enough also yeah we have to be realistic about it the first two films weren't like gigantic successes. No. They weren't like huge money makers. It's a miracle. The second one even got made, to be perfectly honest.

Which is extra strange why they even revisited it at all. Oh yeah, because it's like, well, Lionsgate had some IPs. You know, they had Saw. They had Hunger Games. And now they don't have anything. So they're looking at the market going like, oh, what's popular? Oh, superhero movies. Do we have one of those?

Flip through the books. Yeah, I guess we have one of those So you gotta make it like Deadpool Yeah That's pretty much what happened Which is sad Because I mean you could You could do something with Hellboy

They just fucked it up royally Right I think people would have been excited For Hellboy 3 GERMO directing would have been cool The same cast People totally would have They would have fucking bend

Lines out the door To see that Yeah Oh well Why is it that every creative industry? is like this where one person or one like group comes up with like an idea that just makes so much money so then they all just copy it and think yeah we'll do it as well because it's not like they already have it or anything yeah it's really funny and then they fail and then they're shocked every time

but it's been going on like in every industry for decades like the people making these decisions aren't like creative people that really wanted to express something that's been eating away at their soul you know this is this is literally just about like What can I make money off of? Hey, they're making money off of that. I'm going to do that. I was playing Trials Rising last night for my stream. And it's like, it's a fun motorbike game or whatever.

Like, I really enjoy it, but they had a bunch of them. But this newest one, at the end of every single track that you do, there's these dumb Fortnite dances. And it's just funny. I'm like, this is from Fortnite. You wanted to be Fortnite. Everything's trying to be Fortnite. Please stop.

Yeah, every game has Fortnite. This wasn't a creative decision, Ubisoft. This was, yeah. It was like 10 years ago where every game just copied Call of Duty. Yeah, exactly. That pissed me off. Especially with Halo. Trying to be Call of Duty.

That pissed me up. Yeah. But then it flipped around again when Overwatch became popular. Yeah. Everyone started copying that cartoonist style. Do your own fucking thing. It's like even with the business thing aside, just apply basic logic. Like the market is being filled already by something so perfect for what they're

doing that you could not possibly compete. You're oversatuating it. You're supposed to be filling gaps in the market. Yeah, exactly. They're killing it. Yeah, and the ones that are the huge successes usually aren't the ones that copied in the first place. I mean, in ways, maybe sure.

I mean, like, Fortnite wasn't the first battle royale game that there was, but I think it stood out enough from PubG that that's why PubG got destroyed by it. Yeah. You know? Yeah. If they just copied and tried to make this exact same game as PubG, then there would be no reason for people to want to play it. Yeah, PubG was just an armor mod before.

Yeah. And it was buggy and broken and looked terrible, so Fortnite was appealing to people. Yeah. Yeah, it's really, it's really annoying because these people are creatively bankrupt. They don't know how to do art. I guess it's just the result. But they're in charge of the art. I think it's partly ego, too.

Like, they think the reason these things are so successful is because of them. Probably. Not because of like your Emil del Toro and Ron Perlman. Those people. They're like, oh, I could do anything I want. I'm a movie maker. I'm not being successful. Right.

They think they're like Marvel. Marvel's kind of like that. They can kind of throw directors at the wayside because they're Marvel. But no, not every company's like that. Not Lionsgate. Oh, yeah. What's so funny is like their IP, oh, great segue. Should I even say what?

You evaluate how important you think it is. No, I can't. I kind of have to. Sorry, it's stunted you. No, it was great. Thank you. It's okay. I finish your thought.

Yeah, yeah. I was just going to say how funny it is that they had like this gigantically successful IP of saw. And then with a jigsaw, they had this opportunity to truly keep it going. They had a gigantic opportunity where they could. could have just been like yeah he's alive again whatever it doesn't make sense it's not like the other movies did he or yeah why don't they just do the twin brother thing i would have loved the twin brother it doesn't matter like in saw three that was actually my twin brother that died and i've been doing

everything this entire time and i was pretending to be dead but then they cheaped out and then they just did the entire saw four plot again where they're like actually the twist at the end is that this happened before saw three so yeah yeah timelines uh so stupid and they It was such a bait and switch with the HD TVs in there. I'm like, what? So this happened in like 2002? This doesn't make sense. Like, this literally doesn't make sense.

Piss me off. And now apparently Chris Rock is rebooting the franchise. Mm-hmm. Which Chris Rock? Yeah, Chris Rock is rebooting Saw. And all I want out of it is Tobin Bell to still be involved. I don't want it to turn into another, like, nightmare on Elm Street reboot thing, where they just forget that the one actor you're supposed to keep to make a

stay successful is necessary. Right, yeah. I don't know if it would do well without him. Yeah, like who... They better be careful. They should replace him with Chris Rock. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. That's all I picture in my head is jigsaw played by Chris Rock.

What was he doing? Is he writing it or directing it? I don't know. Producing it, I guess. Just producing it. He just wants to make some money. Chris Rock was in a movie called Madagascar, and Madagascar had lions in a.

Speaking of Lions, we saw the original Lion King, the good one. Not the new one. Or I guess Ralph might have seen the new one, did you? No, I didn't. Oh, you didn't? You're going to talk about this? You didn't? Okay, I'm proud of this going on?

There's a debate? Oh, that I tweeted. I mean, it wasn't supposed to be a debate. I just said, I'm going to go see it at some point. And people were like, you're giving Disney or money. I'm like, it's too late. It's over already. No, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I'm planning on doing some sort of a review on it. I'm probably going to wind up buying the Blu-ray because I want access to the special features and all that stuff to use for my review. And I won't really have it otherwise. So that's unfortunate. But I don't want to add to their current box office in theaters. I don't want to do that. And I feel like I'm at least contributing something by making little. passive aggressive tweets telling other people

not to see it. I think I'm doing my job. So yeah, like my tweet and then your tweet directly after about how you're going to see it and spend 10 Ralph bucks on it. People in our subreddit got a little fired up. Yeah, they always do that, whatever. You saw Aladdin

what, two months ago. Yeah, but I didn't care about Aladdin. You gave him money? Yeah, but I'm just saying personally, I think Aladdin looks way worse than Lion King. Yeah. And I haven't given, I haven't given Disney a penny for any of these live action remakes so far, not a penny. And I'm interested in just

experiencing one of these in the theater. No, I've never given a fuck. And we're at this point now. They've basically remade all of them. So I'm like, whatever. They already have the mermaid one ready. They're working on... I think Yermo's going to do Pinocchio. That one actually

kind of sounds interesting. There's already a Pinocchio happening that's not by Disney. From the Italian director who did Gamora and reality and dogman Mateo Garone I think his name is Yeah he's doing a Pinocchio movie

It looks really weird I'll totally watch that We'll see what Disney does I hope that comes out before the Disney one If Disney is even I don't even know if they're in production for that If they would be Yeah I just saw it as listed somewhere

Yeah I'm excited for the Mateo Garone one anyway So I got a question for you So you're basically your mentality is that it doesn't matter because you're just one person and you're not wrong

no you're not oh okay in this case in this case yes I got a question for you in this case come on everybody like what the fuck am I adding to the I got a question for you uh huh do you vote well I haven't voted so far in my life

for president no no oh okay any other Oh, you don't take part in, like, local elections? Local elections, yeah. Yeah, the 2016 one I could have voted, I chose not to. Oh, okay. Okay, cool. Yeah, that's understandable.

Do you not think it's slightly different with the context of, like, who Ralph is and, like, what his whole deal is, you know? Like being part of the movie scene, reviewing bad movies and ripping them stuff? No, yeah. No, completely. I was just giving him shit. Yeah. yeah I know I appreciate it

people people wanted a bit of a bit of cat people take Twitter so seriously like I just tweeted that I was just like

oh whatever this is really this will be funny like well whatever people take footer extremely seriously yeah and then it goes on right in 500 likes

or they're gonna argue about this next episode I'm trying to fucking whatever that walls of rage it's like our own little tabloids you know

it is It's annoying. That's great. I just can't use Twitter and, like, write down a thought I have. It's going to be cross-examined by fucking 600 people. New quote. Ralph thinks that our fans are annoying. You just said it.

This is a scandal. Yeah. Down. Get ready for that. Ralph, why do you hate people? Yeah, I just hate my fan base. I hate you guys. I hate myself.

I don't hate my fan base. I hate your fan base. Oh yeah, the Lion King. What did you guys think? Cross spread. Oh, yeah. Cross the streams. Yeah, we're crossing the streams.

They're mutating. Help. It's out of control. Lion King. My favorite animated movie of all time. Yeah, well, not the live action. So it's your favorite animated movie of all time? Yes.

And I saw your rating. Ever. But I. So I'd like you to... I knew this was going to happen. That's fine. Favorite doesn't necessarily mean I think it's the best. Right.

Favorite means that it's a film that I experience very personal emotions to. Every time I see it, I love the music so much. The music connects with me on such a powerful level. I love the setting, scenery, character designs. And not just, you know, I think that it's a very incredibly matured. sure story for something that could be considered a kid's film and yeah sure it's just hamlet with lions that's fine you know it's not a perfect movie there's some inconsistencies and some like you know i guess god just got mad and took away all the trees and and the water and then he got

happy again but at the end of the day it's like it's just it's the talent involved behind every decision in this film. I think it's just phenomenal overall. Yeah, it's very good. It's very good movie. Insane cat. Especially the music. The performances are all great. And that's something we're going to miss in this new one.

And that's one of the best things about this one. Jeremy Irons. I know you're going to go on about him at him. But there's also Road Atkinson. There's, I guess that's it because those are the only two I know. James Earl Jones. Great. James Goldberg. Cheech Marin.

Yeah. All the hyenas are funny. Yeah. Ed was played by, what's his name? The guy he does Winnie the Pooh. Yeah. Yeah.

Cummings. Yeah, Jim Cummings. Jonathan Taylor Thomas. I don't know who played Rafiki. I don't know who played Sarabi. But I know everybody else. You got Donald Glover now and John Oliver. Yay.

Seth Rogan Fuck you It's so bad I've been looking at the clips of the new Lion King like on Twitter Have you seen what they've done to Tomeone? Everything about it is embarrassing Everything about it

It looks like I saw the death scene Oh yeah It's very bad The kid can't act The voice acting got so much worse Yeah It's actually embarrassing The only voice actor I don't like in the original

Is Matthew Broderick I don't think he was well cast Yeah, I thought his performance His singing was fine, but the voice Yeah, just his voice acting He played adult Simba He was older Simbaugh Matthew Broderick Yeah, I see

Ferris Bueller Yeah So there's only like three male lion characters in the movie And so Matthew Broderick's really the odd one out In this scenario Because James Earl Jones And Jeremy Irons

In both of their performances Not only do they really kind of amplify this whole I'm a lion sort of performance in their voice, especially Jeremy Irons, the way he like snarls and makes all these crazy noises. Yeah, it's insane. And then James Earl Jones, what really helps him out is like he's got this huge bassy tone to his voice. It's so low pitched that when you're watching, especially with good speakers, it really, you can hear it in your subwoofers. Like the room vibrates when he talks. And so you have this presence of this scary, large, feline character. And that's just through the voice acting.

And then you get to Matthew Brodrick. He doesn't really have anything to offer there. He sounds like Disney lead number 435, you know? Which is the point for most of the movie. I know. It's a little sad. But at the very end, it doesn't work for him. Yeah.

At the same time, still love the movie. It's the only, like, really weak element I could say. No movie's perfect, as they said. Except Goddy. Except Antichrist and Gotti. So, Alex, what are your grapes? So I used to watch this film a lot when I was a kid. I had fond memories of it.

And I did enjoy myself when I rewatched it, but I just don't remember it being as excessively camp as it was. It's like really, really silly and goofy. And I remember in my head, it sat in this place of like, this is like an epic grand story. But it felt slightly more quaint to me when I, when I rewatched it. Very interesting. Yeah, it was a weird, it was actually a really strange experience to me because it's, I hadn't seen it since I was a literal child. So it was, it was there still in my brain in pieces and I was recognizing all the scenes.

But it was like a completely new point of reference. So it was strange from me. me to analyze from there. But yeah, I just thought it was very good overall. I did find it interesting how every now and again I thought the film kind of looked a bit flat for me. Well, it's 2D. There's this contrast where the kind of layers looked odd to me.

I don't know if it was just my TV or what. There was a very obvious layer. Yeah. Which version did you watch? There are versions. I just got it off IG. Whatever that one is. Yeah, I just bought it off iTunes.

Yeah, Disney have made slight alterations to the Lion King also. Speaking of THX. It might be, yeah, it might be like a bad remaster or something. Mm-hmm. It might be that. Was the morning report in it that terror they did for the 10th anniversary DVD? I think it might have been before the Blu-ray. But they added literally an extra new song into it that they freshly animated.

For real? Yeah. And it was fucking. awful and Zazu sung it and they got some kid that wasn't Jonathan Taylor Thomas because he was too old to be young Simba in that part

and to fit that into the movie to force it in this terrible song that had no personality to it whatsoever. They had to get rid of the pouncing scene the pouncing lesson which is like just such a great yeah they had they replaced the pouncing kind of an essential scene

yeah and and when you played the DVD on the 10th end anniversary edition the default was that scene and you had to go into the special features to say no I would like to watch the real version of the movie Instead yeah that's sad fuck you Disney yeah that's bad that is bad I don't know might have been your TV I don't think that Anything about it seems like poorly animated I was reading about it apparently This project over at Disney like no one had much faith in it so it was kind of the B team Yeah, interesting whereas everyone was pushing for I think I think it was Pocahontas at the time.

They were like, this is going to be our success story. We're just like, yeah, this Lion King thing, whatever. Yeah. Proves that they don't know what they're talking about. It's held up so much by a couple of like key character building scenes that really hold it together, especially I found the second act much more engaging than the first and third. I thought the musical numbers are better.

I think it's more visually interesting. Whenever there's a new musical number, they embrace the fact that it's animation and like do crazy backgrounds and have all these kind of trippy visuals and everything. And that's something that's really lacking from the new ones from my course I've watched on YouTube. It's just they're just running in a line. Brown. Yeah. Yeah. Jungle. Desert. Yeah. Jungle.

What's the point? But yeah, they do make the most out of the fact that it's animated and there's, there are some really impressive sort of perspective shots I was noticing where the cameras going to swing around. Yeah. There's some Michael Bay shots. I think it was just the overall simplicity of the story was leaving me lacking. a little bit. Mm-hmm.

Like, the setup for all the characters is very strong, but by the end, it kind of feels like it peters out a bit for me. I really like when Timon and Pumba show up. I think they're funny as hell. Yeah. They're one of few comic relief characters in kids' movies that aren't just incredibly annoying. They're likable.

They're good. They're awesome. There's that awesome line where they're looking at the stars. And it's like, it's a fart joke. It's a verbal fart joke. And I can't believe how funny it is. It's like, it's always gas with you when he's asking. when he theorizes that the stars are like balls of gas,

exploding resistance or whatever. Yeah, they got some good jokes. I think that, like, yeah, it is a fairly simple story. Again, just Hamlet with Lions. But it's really held together by its characters. Scar is an amazing villain. Timon and Puma are amazing comic relief characters. You care when the dad dies.

You care when Mufasa dies, right? Exploring their dynamic and their relationship. Sure, it's simple. but every moment of that feels completely justified where the first moments of interaction that they have, they're setting up other elements in the film that are going to be reincorporated later where he's talking about like, oh, one day you'll be king,

I'm not going to be here forever, hint hint. And that one shot where after Simba thinks he's being tough and he wants to be brave and he obviously looks up to his father and his life and you see that shot of just the small paw on the larger paw footprint and it's implied it doesn't need to explain it sure it's not like super super the most subtle thing in the world

but it's there and they don't over-explain it and they don't like pound it into your head and the clips that I was watching of the new Lion King where Scar is getting Simba set up for the trap or whatever the stampede he's like oh yeah just go on this rock in the remake I'm looking at this clip it's just so fucking infuriating

because they over-experiod explain everything and Simba literally verbalizes out loud he's like oh but I want to be a big lion and I want a big roar so I'm like that was implied earlier right that was implied earlier when when he was trying to save Nala and he felt like he couldn't do that on his own right that the the paw print or whatever like it's all implied and then you see him like oh yeah I see this little lizard or whatever I'm going to try and roar at it I'm not doing a good job like You can figure that out even as a child. It's fucking obvious.

Why do they feel the need to over-explain every single thing? Like, we're stupid. It's so infuriating. That pissed me off. Test screenings. I don't know. Test screenings, people are probably like, I don't understand that part.

So they write in some exposition. I just want to know why the movie is half an hour longer if it's shot for shot. Apparently there's a new song. Is that new song just half an hour longer? Like, is it a half hour longer? song song? What'd you do to it? Who's the new song for? Is it Nala's song? I don't know. A couple new songs.

Oh, I have no idea. I'll see it eventually. It's not going to be fun. Whatever they did, it's for the worst. Exactly. There's no way you can improve it in that context. Yeah. No. It looks more realistic. Okay, then they shouldn't be talking. It's rendered realistically. There shouldn't even be a story if you want realistic lines.

There shouldn't be a narrative. There shouldn't be voice actors. Yeah. Fuck you. It's just coming from the wrong creative place completely. Yeah. It makes no sense from like a pre-production like standpoint. Like there's a reason the original was animated, you know? Yeah. Like it's so expressive.

The animation is so clever what they do with it. I mean, the new one is also animated. It's none of that now. But it's just pretending not to be. That's the thing though, but they're not animating it like an animated movie. They're animating it like it's a CG effect like in a movie. So it's just loads of CG effects running around in a CG. field. I might have even seen a remake of the Lion King that was

CGI animated if it was like, if it looked like a cartoon. Yeah. If it was just a good 3D animated cartoon like Pixar made it. Yeah, that would have been, fuck. Where they actually have character designs and style. Yeah, that would have been better than this. Just a lion. Like a lion is like one of the least expressive animals that fucking is out there. And that's the main character. That tweet that's been going around that has like 25, thousand retweets that comparison shot of like when Mufasa

dies. Like you get so much out of the facial expressions of this kid that just lost his dad, witnessed his father being murdered in front of him. And the voice acting sells it so much too. And it's the lighting choices too in the original like where everything

gets darker and you see in Mufasa's eyes as he's realizing he's about to be murdered by his brother. Right. And then you see the new one. It's like Scar just boops him on the knows. And as he's falling, he's like, the voice acting is so much worse. And then just looking at Simba, no! And it's just, it looks like a taxidermy. It doesn't look like a character. You can't see anything in his eyes.

Plus the lion falling off the cliff. Like seeing a real lion flying off a cliff looks very goofy. It's so funny. Yeah. It's so embarrassing. Yeah. Whereas in the original, that scene is incredible. It's the best scene in the movie. You don't get that out of kids movies ever, right? Even when you have other characters, you know, family members die, especially in kids' movies now. Like, I can't think of many at all, especially successful good kids movies where something like that has happened.

Like in Frozen, it's implied death of parents up, had some emotional moments for sure with the loss of a character. But again, very implied. This, it was like you just witnessed this kid's dad die. And it was a character that was built up. It wasn't somebody that was like, oh yeah, this is somebody who existed in this character's life before and we're just trying to explain why they feel some sense of loss. This is a character that we saw throughout the film and grew to love. And so we were experiencing the loss of that character too. In the essential conflict, yeah.

Wake up, dad? Yeah. It's horrible. You don't get that anywhere. People are too chicken shit. That's why I think it's an essential film for kids. Yeah. It teaches a lot of valuable lessons, learning from the past and death and life.

life and the circle of life and how important that is and how we all have to come to grips with that. It's like a, it's a good way of approaching that for young minds to kind of wrap the head around. Yeah, absolutely. I didn't actually think about this until now, but I'm just realizing that if this wasn't Disney's B project, we probably wouldn't have gotten a lot of those decisions. We probably wouldn't have gotten those kinds of risks. Does anyone remember Pocahontas? Nope.

Like, really? Have you seen it? I remember some of the songs. No one's talking about that movie. It's one of their more... Where's the Lion King. It's revered. Savages.

Paint with all the colors of the wind. There's some good songs, but... Fuck, it's not a good movie. So sad. So very, very sad. Are they going to try and remake Pocahontas? What are they going to do with that one? Yeah.

Of course they are. It's not PC. They're on a roll. It's not PC. They don't make a PC. Yeah, what are they going to do with it? They'll have a realistic CG raccoon and it'll be funny and cute and... Oh, yeah.

Whatever. Epic fight. Something like that. get a realistic tree mom just throwing the cats from Tom Hooper's epic musical me in the most ambitious crossover what's that cat movie that Disney made they can do that oh the aristocats that's the one yeah aren't they're like really racist characters about a remake of 101 Dalmatians versus cats there's a Cruella deville movie right now yeah yeah I think Emma Stone's gonna play prorella deville or something

right it's like a it's like a side project it's like a spin-off on just Corella Deville oh right apparently but yeah there was a live action

remake of 101 Dalmatians with Glenn Close back in the day yeah Disney's been doing this for ages you just keep remaking them like Alice in Wonderland as well Tim Burton like years ago

yeah they just tore out all of their properties but everyone still gives them money they still get their money even if it's not from that they get it from Marvel and Star Wars Or Ralph, like all the Ralph books. Who here hasn't seen any of those?

So fuck you two also. Sorry. That's my point. What am I done? You gave money to Disney too. What do you mean? This is all of our faults. We all contributed to this. But it's over now. That's too late. I don't think there's any winning because like even if let's say the Lion King

underperformed at the box office, like the new one, even if it's not. I'm hypothetically if let's say that were to take place. Okay. There would probably be a lot of people, and I'm sure there already has been. There's 100% been increased sales of the 94 property that they own too. So even if, let's say this underperformed, it would still be worthwhile as a business decision because they essentially created a gigantic ad campaign for the original film and all the merchandise. So there's no way they could consider it to be a bad idea.

Yeah, we all rewatched it. It just would have been really cool if they made a good movie in there somewhere. And it keeps people employed. Like, people got paid to make it. I'm happy they get to feed the families. Yeah, I'm very happy Beyoncé got some more money. Yeah, well, Beyonce. But all those VFX people and all those people that rendered that CGI scene of Mufocyan.

I don't even be seeing any of that money that's going. Live the king. Fuck off. All the voice acting is so terrible. People that I normally like, like hearing Donald. Glover in the clips that I saw I'm like you're sorry you're not good I kind of like you Donald but you're not good in this it's really sad John Oliver sounds like cancer Jesus Christ yeah compared to one of the finest comedic actors of all time he sounds like he's still

doing his political show in the movie doesn't sound any different he's just he recorded all of his lines from that fucking desk he sits at you know it's crazy so I did some digging it seems like Beyonce didn't even record her lines with anyone there. It seems like she recorded them all in her own home, whereas like everybody else, every other cast member showed up and like acted with each other. Beyonce was just like, I'm going to do this in my mansion. Because she's above it. On the red carpet, they were being interviewed for the like big Hollywood premiere or whatever. Several different people were asked like, oh, what was it like to meet Beyonce? And they were like, uh, we haven't met her yet. We might meet her tonight. And the funniest fucking part about

that is that the Lion King, they released the cast photo where everyone's in it, including Beyoncé, but she was photoshopped in because people hadn't met her yet. People hadn't met her. They weren't actually there in the same room. And then you look at it and you zoom in and it's like, this does look photoshopped. She's just kind of standing in the middle in the background in this very odd pose. And she's totally photoshopped in. And then somebody asked that question.

Somebody was like, oh, she looks a little photoshopped in. Seth Rogan liked their tweet and then didn't expand on it. further when people started when it started becoming a bit of a news controversy so yeah bianca didn't even show up she recorded all of her lines by yourself and it really shows in her performance jesus she's not a good actor as soon as you put biance in a movie you're saying this is to get people who are fans of biance to watch it and no other reason it's not for her acting talent she was the worst part of gold member oh i didn't even see that why about pink panther she's great she was easily the worst part of

of Austin Powers gold member. She was so annoying. Very sad. Remember Rihanna and Battleship? They'd be doing this for ages. Battleship is Rihanna. Is it Rihanna or Rihanna? We say Rihanna here. I say Rihanna.

Apologies to Rihanna if I'm saying Rihanna wrong. Adam, how do you say it? You'll be the decider. Rihanna? Okay. I see how it is. I've never had any reason to say her name before. Any final thoughts on the Lion King?

Uh. Let's remake it again with Rihanna and Beyonce again. Playing every character. Let's remake it with the entire cast of cats. All right. 10 out of 10 from me. Are the original line king? Yeah.

10 out of 10. You're giving it a 10? 5.5. Perfect. Yeah. A plus. All right. Alex.

I liked it. Yeah. I enjoyed it. I think it's a good movie. I think it's well written. It didn't leave me thinking or anything or stay with me particularly. like a film we're going to be talking about soon, but yeah, it was okay. I enjoyed it.

Cool. It's technically very good. I gave it three and a half stiles. Thank you. Oh, very nice. Speaking of movies, there was a movie. Oh, is that what we're talking about? What the fuck was that?

Ralph recommends did a movie. A movie that we watched. David Lynch. Yeah. Yeah. Spoilers. Spoiler alert. A razorhead.

As if you can even spoil the plot for Eraserhead. You need to see it six times before you can even understand. Anyway, a racerhead is about, well, it's a film by David Lynch. It came out 19... God, what's the year? Seventy-7. 77, that's right. Yeah.

And it follows this guy, Henry, in this post-apocalyptic industrial world almost. And he finds out that this girl he's been with is pregnant with a monster. of a baby and he has to take care of it. And that's basically it. It's about the, on the surface level, I'd say the most base level, it's about like the anxiety of being a father and like, let's say going from being a young man to having responsibilities and being an adult. It's kind of about that.

Also, we talked about a David Lynch movie before, Wild at Heart, but that was way more of a comedy than this is. This movie has comedic moments too, but this is definitely way more experimental, surrealist, David Lynch. It's his first feature film. It is, which is nuts. It was supposed to be a student film. He started as a student project, and then it just blew up. It took him five years to make.

Famously, the guy who plays Henry, I forgot his name at this moment. I'll look it up, but he kept that fucking haircut. Yeah, he kept that haircut for five years. Oh, no. The whole time. I don't know. I think there might be a bit of conflict of interest recommending a movie that you starred in.

I saw that too. My profile picture used to be like just a copy of a racer. Nice. When I had that giant Afro. And nobody knew that it wasn't yet. I enjoyed it. I wasn't wild about it. I wasn't wild at heart.

I thought that it was a really great first feature for sure. You know, I can understand why it's had such an impact, why he's like a household name. I think that if I was in love with the tone of the film more, I would have got more out of it. But it felt like slow to the point of being kind of like unnecessarily long. It's like 45 minutes through before his girlfriend. leaves and he's taking care of that baby. Yeah. Well, Eraserheads, it was a 30

or 35 page script. It was something like that. And he fleshed that out into a film. Oh, yeah. I was watching the special features after. Like, that wasn't even a script. It was so weird. Barely. How do you write something? I think it comes with the criterion version. Like, they have it written out in a

book. But it's barely anyway. It's so weird. Yeah. He's a crazy person. But he made that into a film. He kind of is, honestly, as someone who loves and respects He's genuinely a crazy person. He is a little out there. He's a little nutbar factor six. That's what makes it interesting though.

It's fascinating. That's what I fell in love with this movie. Oh, you did. I was half concerned because I wasn't that crazy about Wild at Heart. I thought it was okay. I thought it was decent. But it didn't really leave any growing impressions or anything. I didn't really think about it again.

I go into this and I just felt like I was in someone else's head and the way they express themselves and the way they think and all the like idiosyncrasies that all the characters have and there was just so much detail and it was so abstract and like obtuse and weird but I didn't I didn't find it boring at all personally I thought the pacing was pretty good

but I was I was down for this like slow sort of plodding methodical atmospheric just creepy movie like I wasn't really sure what to expect It's been on my watch list for years and years and years. I've always wanted to see it, but never got around to it. It just connected. Like, I really connected with the main character and there's weird struggles that he was going through.

I loved all the... How much reading you have to do to figure out the movie yourself? Because I think I read David Lynch, like, refuses to describe or explain anything about the movie because he likes the idea that everyone has to pick it apart. He kind of picks and chooses. He says no one has predicted what Eraserheart's actually about. I don't believe him when he says that. I believe him.

I think he just wants to keep it mysterious. I don't know. But it's, I don't know what point I was trying to make. He picks and chooses, though, because, like, I went through a bunch of interview footage after, because the criteria in Blu-ray has a bunch of them. And there are specific points and elements that he talks about, that he actually explains just to some guy that was interviewing him. Right.

He kind of just picks and chooses. And that might be a little dependent on how, concrete of an idea he has for any given element in the first place. I'm a huge Hutterowski fan and I think I've explained this kind of comparison before where every single thing in a Hodorowski movie, like you know it came from somewhere, you know he's trying to make some sort of either a statement on some grander issue in society or it's a personal aspect of something that happened in his life and this is how he's expressing it. Whereas David Lynch, sure there's elements of that there, but I feel like

a lot of it is kind of just like, oh, I think this would look cool and it's weird and it doesn't make sense and I'm just going to put it in my movie anyway. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with that, but I don't feel as much for it. With David Lynch, it's more meditative and that's kind of why I love him. He's big into transcendental meditation as well as well. It's kind of like the painters who dip their like hands in paint and kind of just smear it all over. canvas and pink that's kind of how I see David Lynch he like takes these things almost out of his soul and just throws them on screen even if they don't make sense necessarily it's very clearly and that's why it feels so unique yeah and I love the tone of it I love how slow it is

almost to an awkward it adds an awkwardness to the scenes which is almost funny and that's why I love it too there's a there's an underlying element of comedy throughout the entire thing sure and and that's what makes it rewatchable as well you know is that you can enjoy it on different emotional levels depending on how many times you've seen it and what you're focusing on and i love what you were saying Alex just how because of how abstract it is you can really take whatever you want out of it and you know the father element is like the most basic thing you can take out of it but there's so many interpretations and none are corrects and you can you can just do whatever you want with it. It's this amazing film

that still dazzles people. Yeah, I think I don't know. David Lynch is the type of director where it feels like mostly interpretation from audience members rather than his own kind of interpretation. I think he has his own meaning, but he'll

never tell us. And that's why it's interesting. Their own experience out of it. And that gives it a lot of credibility in its own sense. And like I said, like you both really love the tone of this. I wasn't like I wasn't wild about it. And so I think that that's one of the bigger, one of the bigger issues in terms of my experience watching the film.

Like I said, still enjoyed it. But if I'm not in love with the tone and overall presentation of it, it does kind of get a little boring after a while. Just because it's a very, it's a very consistent tone. And I like that about it. But it feels kind of like stagnant to me. Like there's nothing really all that new or crazy being introduced, except for, you know, the lady in the vent, the awesome puppet.

I love the puppetry of that baby. I love the way it's eyes moved. There's a lot of elements to this that I really love, but I wasn't really invested in anything. I can't agree with you when you say there's not like crazy stuff happening. Like every five minutes, there's crazy shit happening. I love that. It's just totally, his head flies off and the guy picks it up and turns it into erasers.

But there's stuff all throughout the movie that's like that, the chicken scene or the dinner stop motion thing. The stop motion thing. Henry in the elevator and it takes like fucking 10 minutes from to get upstairs. There's like tons of stuff that just, it's so bizarre. It's very memorable. They're sprinkled in the movie for sure. I wouldn't say there every five minutes.

I think it's pretty often. I don't know, man. Yeah, I think it's pretty often. I think it's pretty often. Like with the body language and the weird ticks that people do and no one addresses it. It's just really unsettling. Because we haven't even mentioned like, I thought the film was quite frightening at points.

It's just so unsettling. so unlike traditional kind of scares it is off-putting it is strange it does make you feel wrong at points it's fascinating to watch

the fact that a lot of it's unexplained too is what makes it scary I think one of the best things about this film and what makes it so terrifying at times is the sound

I think the sound kind of sells everything about it and when you learn I noted that down yeah the history behind what he did

with the sound and how he made this like industrial real landscape, soundscape, I mean. It's really interesting. He based a lot of,

like the world of Eraserhead, I think, from when he lived in Philadelphia. Yeah. Philadelphia was like a shithole. And like, he took that and kind of set this movie in that similar setting. And the sound of like

just the environment and metal clashing and just this ambient hum throughout the whole thing. Yeah. It's creepy and unique. Yeah, it's really bizarre because like I don't I didn't I didn't really find it's scary

I found some things interesting for sure. I liked a lot of the imagery. I liked when his head got cut off You know, there were some really cool things that happened sprinkled throughout the movie, but for the most part I didn't really find any character interesting like I liked how he always looked like he was gonna vomit like that was kind of interesting, but there were no stakes and nothing that happened really mattered because there was no consequence to anything and you know even at the end it's like oops I woke up you know like the head being chopped off didn't even really matter like it didn't really feel like there were any consequences or even really goals mm-hmm I feel like the goal is more abstract yeah than like a literal ABCD EFG type story I just don't think about that I was so we me and Adam were on the same page for the other movie we did and now I'm with Ralph on this one so that's interesting to me yeah but I feel like this was much better than well because that other one's more linear but this one is completely uncompromising David Lynch full on you know and I guess you kind of like that aspect of it I like it too this is my favorite movie from him so I understand that I mean

I'll definitely check out more of his filmography I've seen yeah what four movies from him now I still haven't seen blue velvet or lost highway those are the two that I really want to check out. Yeah, those are great. Yeah, and I'm looking forward to them, and I've never regretted watching any of his films, for sure. Like, I feel like I got something unique and new out of it. But in terms of, like, rewatchability for me, like, I love movies.

Obviously, you guys already know this, Synecichu, New York, Holy Mountain, et cetera. I love movies that I'm able to interpret for sure, 100%. But I'm not a big fan of films where, sure, the entire thing's interpret. but I need to have something that makes me feel as though re-watching it and getting the interpretations out of it is a worthwhile experience. And if I'm not connected to the tone, if I'm not invested in the atmosphere per se and I'm not scared by it and I don't like I'm not connected to any of the characters or anything like that,

sure, you could make the argument that I could get more out of it by watching it multiple times, but there's nothing that makes me feel like the experience of watching it more would be something that I would enjoy. Like, I don't want it to be a chore. I don't want it to be like a school project where I'm trying to find meaning and something to make myself start enjoying it more. And I feel like every other movie that I've loved that is interpretable in that sense is something that stuck with me right away, something that, you know, the music, the characters, the atmosphere and other elements to the production and the story. There's something that that immediately connects with me about the Holy Mountain, about

Synecdiki, New York, about a lot of these other ones that I will watch a billion times and continue to interpret. But unfortunately, there's nothing about that for this film. It was just specific scenes, specific choices that I appreciated and found interesting. But it's not, I don't know if I'll ever see it again, unfortunately. This is my second attempt too. I think I told you guys that story where I watched the first half of it and I got sleepy and then I couldn't finish it because he removed chapter selections from the DVD and I had to return it and I wasn't going to fast forward through it at like two times speed on this shitty DVD player I had when I was younger. But at least we have the mystery solved as to why I felt so tired the first time.

It's because I got kind of bored by it. It's just it's not my kind of experience overall. This is not a film mentenic. connect with everyone. Exactly. That much is clear. Yeah. I don't know what I can experience in terms of like gazing into the soul of the creator

of this film other than he's just kind of crazy, you know? There's more to it than that. I feel like there's more method to the madness. Yeah. There's way more method to it. I think it's a beautifully made movie in every way. That's that's really what makes me love it so much. But there also is that element and it is deeper than I think it's deeper than he's just.

crazy for sure yeah um let's talk about i'd like you to explain thematically yeah i'd like to hear more from you well let's go through the whole movie in order i haven't i don't have the whole plot written down here but i guess we can try to remember i have some specific scenes um well let's start with the beginning so what is the beginning of the movie uh some man coming out his head away Yeah. Yeah. That like, it's basically like a visual metaphor for like semen or whatever, like the, I guess. Yeah.

Coming out of his mouth. People see it as like a sex scene. Like a sex scene slash birth of either Henry or a Henry's son or whatever that thing is. I would assume it's connected to his baby thing. Baby T. Yeah. It could be either. Yeah.

A little baby Yoshi. I kind of have a theory that the man with the levers is Henry's father. So you could say it's like Henry being born. Like Henry's soul is coming out of the ether because his soul is like floating in space. That's kind of like the first image of the movie. And then he shoots out that little thing out of his mouth and it goes into that puddle. So you could say that's him also. Anyway, then he's just in Philadelphia somewhere.

he goes to his apartment and it takes like 10 minutes for him to get from the elevator to his room he has like a neighbor who he wants to fuck kind of but he can't because he gets the news that he's going to have this baby with this girl with their crazy family her grandmother who is like dead basically she doesn't move at all and then her father who's fucking hysterical and her mother who has a nervous breakdown. So I try to decide. Let's decipher the dinner scene a little. I want to hear you guys talk about it.

The bloody chicken. The bloody chicken. Just the whole thing. I think he was trying to imitate like the anxiety of like the, like having a family dinner. Yeah, that's obviously, that's obviously the tone of it.

Yeah. You get to get the chicken. I thought that scene was just hilarious as well. Just on like a character level. how uncomfortable everyone was and how just awkward the whole scene was. Even like in this first movie, Lynch always has those kind of characters, like very goofy, over the top comedic characters, like the father. It's kind of that character and Walt at Heart too.

Yeah. William the foes kind of that character. Yeah, exactly. But I thought the dialogue was also really interesting, well-written and expressive. A big thing about like these pretentious, like, art films or the ones that are pretentious It's like the dialogue is always terrible Or like vague meaning

Like oh I saw God I can't think of one at this moment But there's nothing like that in this The dialogue is either just weird It makes no sense or it's just like Fine Yeah I certainly like David Lynch a lot more than

People that try to imitate David Lynch That's for sure Yeah definitely I don't think there's any film like this before It came out Like that would evoke this kind of anxiety in an audience or even attempt to. It's a big tone thing.

I appreciate him for that. Yeah. It was a big midnight movie. There were lines around the block for people to see this when it came out. Okay, so what happens after that dinner scene? I'm trying to remember after that. It just descends into madness, doesn't it? Yeah, it really does.

About nothing for 45 minutes and then some cool stuff. Well, he sees the lady and the radiator. I want to, or is it radiator or radiator? Radiator. Whatever you say it. Radiator. It's radio. The lady and the radiator.

The lady and the radiator. How do we all take that? I want to hear you guys talk about it. I mean, it's my first time seeing it, so I'm still processing it. You're going to have to carry this. I don't want to explain the whole thing. No, I do want you to talk about it. How did you see it?

How did you see it the first time like you were watching that? Which scene? The lady and the radiator. The lady and the radiator. The lady and the radiator. How did I interpret it? How did I interpret it? I don't know.

It seemed like he was... This is exactly what I'm talking about. This is why I love talking about this movie. I love it. Honestly, this is my issue. But take your time. It's good. It's good.

This is good. That's the thing, though. I knew I was just going to be... I'm just going to let this film wash over me. I know... One of my notes was, I don't know completely what it means yet, but I loved whatever it was.

That's how I'm feeling about it right now. You trust it and it takes you on a ride. Right? You have like some... And it also makes sense. Like if it really connects with you, it just makes sense for you, even if you don't understand it entirely. It is a hard thing to explain. It is really difficult because it is such an underlying, like, metaphysical thing.

It's hard to explain. But just the mood, the atmosphere of it all was what pulled me in. And I was just in the world very quickly. Exactly. I established the world very well. And exactly what it was going for, I understood quite quickly. So I was on board just with whatever crazy stuff was happening. And I was just taking it at face value for a lot of it.

And, you know, reading behind the scenes, I obviously picked up on the sort of farther responsibility thing and the stresses of all that. I thought that was the biggest takeaway for me. But I thought it was really expressive in the way the character was dealing with that kind of like anguish and emotion and just the visual side of what those feelings can like manifest as. It's such a like beautiful way of showing that kind of mindset

as like a visual form. But it was really connecting with me on that kind of level. It's like in this dreamlike world almost. Yeah, it does feel like a nightmare. It does feel like a nightmare. Yeah, it does. There's weird, like, the character,

there's that woman that's like at the end of the bed and she's just like doing weird things and like making weird shapes of their arms. And it's like, this is exactly like what dreams are like. There's weird details that make nightmare scary. It captures it so well. But there also is a plot and an internal logic. within it, I think, that works for me and keeps me going through it.

And also that comedy. I tried to apply some logic to it. I think the world of Eraserhead is set like after, let's say, a nuclear war. I think it's like a post-apocalyptic nuclear wasteland, which was kind of a worry in like the 60s and 70s when Eraserhead was made, like around that time. So I kind of see it as that. And that gives like a reason to why the baby comes out all the forms. Right.

Because it's like similar to like in Japan when the bombs were dropped on like Hiroshima Nagasaki. Yeah, because doesn't he have like a framed picture of a nuke like in his bedroom or something? He does. Yeah, so I kind of took it as that. And like the baby is like a deformed like nuclear baby like as a result of all the radiation. Right, yeah. I kind of took it as that. The lady and the radiator, I was, I'm going to keep saying.

We know what you mean. I'm kind of saying it as a joke now, but the lady and the lady and the radiator. the radiator. I'll say great. The lady in the radiator is like a almost like this this personification of what he wants in his life. And I don't know if it's a metaphor or real or it doesn't really matter necessarily. I also think it's like a embodiment of his mother, like this stuff he needs in his life like a more maternal kind of love. Whereas the father, which is like the guy with all the levers in outer space is a bit of meaner and more blunt to him. throughout the film throughout like his actions and yeah that's kind of how I take the lady and the

radiator just like oh he wants he wants happiness he wants heaven and heaven everything is fine there's an implied sense that he wants to kill himself because you know go to heaven and in heaven everything is fine so it's like the manifestation of those thoughts as well yeah I think you pretty much got it I mean like radiator yeah is involved with heat and although you can't really necessarily, you know, feel the temperature in the room. You have to imagine that that's the source of some sort of comfort in that, in that dreary-looking environment that he's in. The reason why I was curious about... It's like a fireplace, kind of. Yeah. Like you gather around it for warmth. Yeah, that's a very good analogy. Yeah, part of the reason why I was, um,

curious about your your thoughts on the radiator scene specifically is um like i said david lynch kind of picks and chooses uh which parts he he talks about and in one of the interviews that i that i saw in the criterion blu-ray he does kind of go into it it's not like super complex or anything he doesn't really like provide specific uh like this is supposed to be this this is supposed to be this sort of ideas to it but he was saying that the lady and the radiator was supposed to represent some sort of like beacon of light in a world where the rest of the film is so dark, where it's supposed to be this kind of like ray of hope where everything else around is like depressing. And so, yeah, you pretty much interpreted it in the way that he explained it.

So that's cool. He calls it the eye of the duck scene. That's like his phrase for it. And the eye of the duck scene is basically, he says it's the jewel of the film where it's plot wise it serves no function at all. Like the lady in the radiator doesn't meet any other characters. She has no influence in the actual, like, what happens. But it's an important moment emotionally for Henry,

because we kind of see what he wants, you know. And he has that in all of his films. He compares it to, like, when a duck eye, like, if you took the eye off a duck, it wouldn't make sense and it wouldn't look right. But the way that the curve of the duck's beak and the neck just kind of guides your eye to the eye, it's perfect and that's kind of how he compares it right so he's a fucking loon but he is I think all that is pretty interesting I do think all that is sincerely very interesting

how he and he thinks every film should or has that scene in it where it emotionally it makes sense but plot wise it doesn't so did you know that he dissected a dead cat for no reason to make this movie? Not for no reason. He did it for research. I know. I know.

He's like, I want to know what its insides look like. Yeah. I wonder how much that actually influenced it though. It was like his hobby. Oh, yeah. It's so weird. He would like have all kinds of weird dead animals

and taxidermy and like fungus. Like all this weird shit in his basement. Watching that interview with him where he talks about it is so fucking funny. It's so funny Where he's like yeah I convinced this veteranarian To give me a dead cat

It's like I could open it up And I opened it up in the colors They were unreal And you just see the colors Start to fade away like These Magnificent things in the city in the things Then he just like doesn't elaborate on it

And then 40 minutes later into the interview After he's gone on some completely Other topic of conversation just like, oh, forget about that. 40 minutes later, he's like talking about the dead cat again. He's like, yeah, there was all this tar near the building. And so I put the dead cat in the tar and I left it there for a year. And it was connected to this wire.

And I pulled the wire a year later. And then it was like impregnated with the tar. And it was just, it was fascinating. And then I left it on the sidewalk for another year. And then when I came back, the dead cat was still preserved. And it doesn't look like a cat anymore. And then we filmed the scene where the main actor walks past the dead cat and he just kind of looks at it. But that didn't make it into the movie.

It was really funny. You should see the key in one video with him. He's hysterical, though. He has such a great personality. And all that research paid off with the cat because you could tell that informed the look of the child and the film. When he like dissect the child. Yeah. Or even like cuts it open and it's like, leave.

and like blood is shooting eyes and things mouth. It's disgusting. It's so fucking disgusting. It's apparently, I don't know if it's literally a sheep's fetus. It probably isn't. But it looks like a sheep's fetus. That's like what they modeled it after. But it looks so gross.

And the movement they go out of it. You can just buy dead animal parts. You know, you can just buy meat or whatever. Yeah. That you can use to put in your movie. understand why you had to dissect a dead cat why cat you can literally just buy

like dead goats or lambs or whatever and just use their real organs for your props or whatever I don't understand why you need it to dissect the dish cat I don't know why he put it in tar for a year like reasons

yeah there's also like other versions of the of that puppet there's like the regular baby puppet and then there's the big head and then there's also like some stop motion with the baby i believe which is a throwback to like um so before this david lynch mainly did stop motion and he was also a painter so he would like do these little animations with stop motion and his old student films and short films and he

kind of incorporated that into this too which i thought was cool it does come across as a like a painter's eye with the way just the film expresses itself it is quite abstract it is like a canvas and you're watching just this crazy interpretation of whatever he's trying to say just unfold before you. What about the scene when Henry goes in the radiator and sees the girl, and then I think he touches her, and then the movie really goes off the rails, because his head comes off in a courtroom, and his baby's head comes out, and then there's a boy who picks up his head and turns it into erasers. How'd we take that?

I don't know. It looked cool It looked cool Well even that That's like the title of the film It's a racerhead No I'm telling you it's not

I'm telling you it's like The dismantling of the character Like you just lost it at that moment Or can deal with the pressures Of what was You know About to happen in his life Or is it

It's kind of implied Well not implied But like There's that woman His neighbor Whatever Who wants to get with It could be some

Adultery thing going on. I don't know because I really try and not to like shit on him too hard, but I feel like a lot of what I get out of the movie interpretation-wise is basically just describing what's happening even without interpretation. Like we talk about, yeah, this is an analogy for the pressures of fatherhood, but that's literally also what's happening. Like that's literally his baby and he's stressed out about it and it's getting sick.

Like that's also, the description of what's happening beyond the surface is also the description of what's happening surface level. So when you say something at the end, like, oh, yeah, he's becoming unraveled as a character and everything's going crazy. That's also what's happening on the surface level. And that's why I'm a little frustrated when it comes to his films, I guess. You know, like it feels like as justified interpretation-wise as something like only God forgives to me personally.

Another film where, sure, there could have been, there are aspects that I appreciate, but at the end of the day, you know, there would have to be a lot of changes to make it something where I truly feel as though its presentation is justified, especially with the interpretations. I think there's a lot of interpretation. Like, well, even the whole atomic bomb, Japan allegory thing that I was talking about a little while ago, that's not a part of the film at all. That's not like a, that's not part of the plot. Yeah, I'm not saying everything is like that, but it's so much of it.

this is a thing though about abstract art like I was in the tape modern in London recently which has a lot of modern art and a lot of it was just like this is stupid to me this is this is not saying anything to me but then at the same time I'm sure there are plenty of people that have the opposite reaction because there were other paintings that were like that's really profound to me

what I'm seeing it's like that in cinematic form like that's why it's why it connected with me yeah and also part of interpretation too is like you you discuss it with other people and you kind of fill in each other's theories and make like this whole new thing and interpret these films in whole new ways. I think that there's specific things that could have been done to this movie that would have

made me enjoy it a lot more from like a personal perspective. Obviously I'm not saying this is how the movie should be because I'm just an individual, right? I feel like I would have a lot more like it's a great first film for sure. It's a great first feature. I feel like I would be more impressed by the tone and the originality and its overall impact if this were made like 10 years before. Because I guess like in the context of 1977, like there's so many other great movies that were abstract. Not like this.

Yeah, it's going for a very different tone for sure than the other ones that I've seen. but like Hodorowski had made like three films before that point. I also feel like something that would have improved it a lot for me personally again is if it were, it seemed like a concept that I would have loved as a short film. It seems like something that didn't really need to be a feature, like a hour and a half long film. And I guess he wouldn't have exploded onto the scene and made this impact if it was a short film. But it's just, it, I, it feels like. I could have gotten the identical experience out of it

from something that was like 20 minutes long. A lot of it just felt very repetitive to me. Really? Yeah. So you're saying about it coming out in the 70s and you're wishing it was coming out earlier. Yeah. To me, part of the reason it was so impressive

is that it came across to me like it was timeless. So there wasn't really anything that was aging it for me like some of the other older movies we've talked about before. I thought it production wise and just everything that came together with the movie there was nothing holding me back from like connecting with it

even for the time it was a groundbreaking film and especially considering how cheap the movie was that was the thing too how much he had to you know take up responsibility for

as like the director and the writer and I think he did like the special effects and a bunch of he just had his hands in everything, which is even more impressive to me. Yeah, and he worked five years on this movie, and then it gets picked up and gets shown in like small cities as like a midnight movie, and it gets hugely popular because this guy, I forgot his name at this moment again.

I wrote like a whole paper on Eraserhead, I'm trying to pull it up, but I can't. But like this is this guy, some Bob something, who believed in Eraserhead's vision and like fucking put it out there and it made it a huge success. And that was unheard of at the time, too. These little, like, little films getting such huge publicity. John Waters and David Lynch were kind of buddies, because they kind of came from that same time, that same movement of, like, really low-budget stuff,

getting attention, huge crowds, because of, like, the exploitation nature of it almost. Like, you're going to get an experience here that you're not going to get anywhere else. People like that. I'm not going to say that I wasn't, like, impressed in any way by it, for sure. Like I said, there's a lot to appreciate it. I'm probably going to get a decent amount of hate for this one because people put David Lynch and this film on, like, an impossible pedestal.

Where I think a lot of people might not enjoy that I didn't enjoy it as much as they did. Don't regret watching it, that's for sure. No, definitely not. How did you feel about the scene selection? thing. Oh yeah, there were no chapter selections on the Criterion Blu-ray either, which is hilarious. Because obviously...

The movie just starts on yours, right? That's how mine worked. Those are just... Like, criterions are mostly, like, director-approved. So, obviously, that was his decision. What was really funny was, like, even the supplements, the supplementary material, they weren't, like, titled.

They were just, like, a year. Whereas, like, every other criterion Blu-ray I've ever had had some sort of, like, description saying, like, oh, this is what this feature is but they were all just kind of like thrown in there and chronological order and like yep that's David Lynch he wanted that for some reason and I don't understand why but because he's a weirdo you know what I watched the movie I didn't pause it I didn't restart it I didn't skip the

chapter selection I didn't watch it on my fucking phone so I got the experience that I think he wanted me to to have in terms of how I viewed it was a good projector set up, good sound, but still, it's just if something doesn't connect with you on a personal level and just immediately grab you, there's not much you can do, unfortunately.

I can't picture watching this movie on a phone. I seriously can't. Get real. I am getting real. I agree with David Lynch, with his films, at least this one. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like his attitude. This is a little annoying. He's saying you can't appreciate the film on the same level if you're not watching it,

even in a theater, like anything less than a theater, basically. I don't know, you sell your movies on VHS. You sell your movies on VHS, there's worse setups you could have with a VHS or even a DVD player. There's people I know that use their TV speakers, like shitty TV speakers. They're never going to get like good sound from that. Whereas if someone was watching it, not a good, decent-sized phone. like a, you know, a good screen and had headphones in. That's probably a better experience than many people that are watching it on VHS or DVD

with shitty TV speakers and maybe even a television that's not like calibrated correctly for color and lighting and all that. So I don't think that this is necessarily. The screen would be bigger maybe. Yeah, it depends how close to your face it is. There's more of an audience participation kind of experience when you're watching it in a theater or like on a couch with friends. Yeah.

You know, there's an element of that. Like a social shared experience. Like, I don't know. I just feel like if you're, if you're going to be that like elitist about it, you might as well just not sell them on home video at all. But you can't control how people watch it, David. You can't do that. Just let people watch it however they want.

He sees it as an experience. You have to experience it a certain way. I understand it. I feel like if anybody else acted the way that he did, people would find it insufferable. but people find it charming in David Lynch you know if Ova Ball was saying that yeah Uveh Ball makes shitty movies

like I don't think David Lynch was talking Nutball like this back then he was probably this is probably a more recent thing and he's kind of he's got that reputation now he's like oh he's David Lynch he's a great director he could say whatever he wants he was just talking about dead cats earlier so

yeah dead cats but yeah actors love him Laura Dern is like in every movie he makes people love work with him. He's a funny. He's a funny guy. He's a funny guy. He does Transcendental Meditation. His movies are meditative. He's just interesting. He just want to watch what he's up to. Yeah. Looking forward to Blue Velvet and Last Highway, for sure. And maybe I'll finish Twin Peaks someday. Yeah, Twin Peaks is something. Yeah. Is that worth, like, dipping your toe in? Because I didn't know it to begin with that whole.

Yeah. So it's what, is it a movie first, then a TV show? No, the TV show came first, I think. It's two seasons of television, then a movie, and then the third season, which is completely unlike the rest of it. It's Twin Peaks 3 is like a really out there avant-garde thing. I love it. I think, like, Twin Peaks fans love it. It's got a great score. I think that's my favorite part about it. I love that song.

That's the thing about all of those movies, too. What's the name of his composer? Angelo. Oh. Band. It's band the Mounted out of the book. Something like that Is it just as out there?

Twin Peaks is pretty out there I just happened to see there was like another writer on the TV show or something so I thought maybe it would reel him back a bit but I guess not. Yeah, he does reel him back a bit. Mark Frost? Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know if Mark Frost was involved with the new one. He might have been. I'm not sure. Yeah, as someone who claims to be the David Lynch expert, I don't know a lot. But all right, yeah,

what'd you guys rate it? Alex. I'll go first then. Yeah, no, I really connected with the movie. I rated it five stars. Yeah, I really liked it. I felt this way about a movie probably since Under the Skin, like on this level anyway.

That's a good comparison. I love Under the Skin too. And I get very similar feelings in both. The anxiety, the music of Under the Skin kind of matches the ambient sounds of this. I love all of that. I love the performances. I love the luck of it. Five out of five for me.

Hmm. And the composer's name is Angelo Battle Lamenti. Boom. Okay. Boom. I don't know what Adam gave it. I didn't want to rate it before talking to you guys about it. Mm, yeah.

Mm. You know, like, I know that it didn't connect with me, like, on a personal level, but I try to, you know, obviously there's things that I did enjoy about it. There's things that I appreciate about it. You know, not just like culturally impactful. But, you know, the technicality,

I loved a lot of like the models and miniatures and like the puppets. And there's a lot to like about it, even though my experience watching it was kind of meh. So I'm giving it kind of a little reluctant seven out of ten, I guess. I think that's where I think that's where I'm going. It's a two of six, then an eight then. What?

It's fine. That's a good score. You thought there's a good movie. People are going to be fucking annoying. I'm going to get hate for this no matter what. There's a lot of diehard Lynch fans that are going to take a lot of issue with me criticizing him. It's like, you don't like my opinion. Just fuck off.

That's it. Don't worry about it. And that guy, by the way, is Ben Barron Haltz. That's the guy who like is basically the creator of the midnight movie, the pioneer of that whole thing. and he gave David Lynch a chance along with John Waters and all that. Nice. I just wanted to get the name out there

so I don't have to hear it on the Reddit about how I don't know anything. From our annoying fans. All right. Let's do a few questions. Probably not too many, maybe three, I don't know. Yeah, let's just do a couple to wrap this up. So if you want to leave your own questions,

head over to the Sardonicast Reddit, where our full, stickier page, or a post or whatever you call it and read it at the top, where you can leave any question you like. Let's start off with this one that I really liked, actually, from Cotton Eye Joe 79, who asks, film is practically the only art medium where the entire product is consumed in one sitting.

Books are separated into chapters, albums are separated into songs, and live theatre is usually split into two acts. Do you think films suffers from this attribute? Would certain slower films improve in terms of their pacing, if you paused and took a break. I think that's what makes films unique is that. Because there aren't a lot of other art forms

that have to worry about pacing in that way. You know, where you have to digest an entire story in just one sitting. A book, you don't have to worry about that. They're still pacing in a book. But what about films that are close to four hours long?

Yeah. And they are separated into chapters. Because like, well, they kind of did that with HIFLIN. Yeah. Barry Linden is two. Barry Linden is divided in. the halves.

Hmm. Yeah. The Hateful Eight, they recently extended Hateful Eight and then made it four episodes on Netflix, which I actually liked. I liked it better than the other one because it fleshed out those characters more. Yeah, you should totally watch it. It's on the U.S. Netflix.

You can't watch it, Alex. Uh, brutal. Look at a VPN. Can I buy it or something? I know. You might have to download it illegally. Are you serious? I think it's a U.S. Netflix exclusive.

What? Yeah. Okay. I don't have it here. I would like a Blu-ray version of that or something. Like maybe a special edition. Come on. I want to throw money at these products and I want to engage, but I have no way of doing it.

What's funny is you're already throwing money at Netflix. They're just not giving you as much as the US customers. Yeah. Yeah, I think it really depends on the movie. There's certainly films that I've seen where I've thought this would be better as a miniseries. There's mini series I've seen that I thought would have been better as a film, like, trim down even. And when it comes to, like, the format of movies, like, you could argue that each scene or each act is its own kind of break without necessarily taking a break from it. Really depends.

Like, as long as there's some sort of, like, slow down moment, I think that depending on who you are and depending on how you view film, I guess, like, it's perfectly acceptable to hit pause and go to the bathroom or, you know, take a short break, make a sandwich, whatever you want to do, as long as it's not like at a high point in the film. If it's like a transitionary period between scenes, things have slowed down a little bit. You're getting a new setting. It's like, okay, well, this is basically, it might as well be a new episode to a television show or something. So, really depends on the movie.

Yeah, I'm not opposed to it. Not opposed to that. David Lynch is. Can't do it. Well, it depends. Again, it depends on the movie. Yeah. Well, he doesn't believe that.

You can sit through all of a racer head in one sitting. Get real. Get real. He's such a meme machine. You're fucking phone. Yeah. I was mimming that so long ago. I'm glad everybody else is now, too.

That phone clip is so funny. He's a funny guy. Yeah, depends on the movie. Domino Chilado has one for us. How often do you go in blind for the stuff you watch? No trailers, no synopsis, just, I heard I should watch this so I will. Or maybe just that level of trust in an individual. director.

Depends on the movie. Almost all the time. Yeah. It's my preferred way of engaging in film now. Me too, Alex. Trailers, like, people complain about it ruining

story beats, but for me, it ruins, like, some of the best shots in the movie a lot of the time. Like, the surprising stuff.

I want to be surprised. Like, too many trailers ruin crucial aspects of experiences, and you're just, you're sat there waiting in the movie

for these, like, scenes from, the trailer to happen, you know, like, oh, the movie might not be over yet because we got, we still got that thing from the trailer to happen. I don't want to be thinking about that. I just want to focus on the story. It's part of why I got, I enjoyed midsummer so much. Like, I knew nothing about it, nothing at all. I was just like, I'm just going to trust this. And I, I think it added to the experience for me. I'd really recommend doing it.

It depends on the movie. Unfortunately, it's a little difficult to avoid some trailers if they have a huge ad campaign, because if you're seeing other movies here in the theater and then the trailer starts playing. I remember, I'm trying to remember, I'm trying to remember the exact movie that it was I think it was for a rival maybe it might have been a Villeneuve movie but there was a trailer no I think it was the Revenant yeah it was the Revenant for sure I remember back in 2014 or 15 when the trailers started playing for that as soon as I knew what it was I plug my ears and close my eyes and start like humming yeah my friends around me and be like what are you doing I'm like I don't want to see the trailer for the Revenant I'm gonna see it anyway

because I was excited for it so it depends on the movie there's um any Michelle Hanukkah film, I'm comfortable enough watching the trailer because apparently there's some sort of organization in Austria that allows him to have creative control over his trailers. I'll know that that's a trailer that came from him and that it's not going to spoil the film in any way, if anything, it's just going to provide the tone that it's going for

and show some of the actors and the setting. And that gets me hyped up for it even more. I'm going to see it anyway. But unfortunately, with most movies, the vast majority of them, the directors do not have much control over what happens in the trailer at all. We saw it with Sony and Villeneuve for Blade Runner 2049, their entire marketing campaign promoting Harrison Ford being in the film when he clearly wanted that to be revealed in the movie.

But Sony was just like, oh, no, this will get more people to see it. So that was really annoying. Yeah, you couldn't avoid that, unfortunately. Terminator Genesis spoiled that John Connor was a robot. Yeah. Terminator. Yeah, it's really unfortunate. I think that the director should have ultimate control

over how they want to market their film, like in terms of what information is revealed. I think they should at least approve the trailer. Well, that's a part of the movie, right? Like, that's a part of the movie experience is the director has decided. It's the first image that's skinned out there. Like, let's pretend that the trailers didn't exist. Like the film is created in a way where the information is revealed in a specific order.

Like that's the entire point of writing a script is deciding how to reveal information and when to reveal it for the ultimate dramatic effect of whatever you're trying to achieve in your film. And oftentimes trailers ruin that because they reveal information in an order that you're not supposed to get it. So I believe that directors should be able to have ultimate authority on their trailers and how they're, get marketed but unfortunately that's just not the case comedic beats really just are ruined in trailers yeah 100 bhawn anything funny in a movie is like usually just cut down and made like a three second thing in a trailer and it sucks yeah totally doesn't capture those what makes that seem funny

and when a movie is so heavily marketed where you see in the trailer multiple times and then the joke happens in the movie like yeah like oh we're using our superhero names I guess I'm spider-man whatever that line was I think it was Infinity War or something but yeah and then it happens in the movie and then it's like

I don't find it funny and then all these all these fanboys are in the movie and they're laughing hysterically I'm like you definitely watched the trailer come on but even so like if you've seen this trailer more than twice you're not going to laugh at the jokes as much anymore it takes the punch away for sure it does

marketing a comedy through a trailer is kind of a difficult thing to do maybe that's why they don't do well and horror movies as well. A-24 would like, was it, it comes at night? That was a cluster. I thought the It teaser

was a really well-done horror trailer. Because it's like you were kind of watching a scene from it. The teaser with the old lady? Part two. Oh, that's part two. Okay. Yeah.

Because it was like a, it wasn't like a mashup of different scenes. Like you got to basically experience the tone of a scene, which I thought was cool. Exactly. Like, I've always thought... It was cut down a bit, but they captured that scene. I like trailers that do that.

Yeah. Like, I like Gravity's trailer because it's just a scene. Yeah. I've always thought that that would be a good way to market a movie. It's just show a scene, basically. Uh-huh. That's not a bad idea. That can summarize what the film's about.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The tone that it's going for, you know, actually experiencing it. But trailers are edited in such a manipulative and dishonest way at this point. You know, like the Evil Dead remake trailer. trailer, the crawl trailer. Like, Sam Ramey's got somebody who does a really great job editing trailers. He knows the right guy for sure, but, uh, or girl.

And, uh, it, it just winds up being manipulative and dishonest by the end of it. It's like the tone that you've communicated in there. I wouldn't say those trailers are dishonest. Yeah, it wasn't, you're never going to get the tone in the actual film, unfortunately, is my issue. Well, like the Evil Dead remake? I don't think that trailer was like, it was very well edited. Yeah. was. I thought it was just like that good in a horror show.

Yeah. I like that. I like that. It's providing a different. It's boring. Okay, but the movie's trying to get that tone. I didn't. I would have to disagree with it. I think it was. So you watched the new Godzilla, did you? The new Godzilla?

King of Monsters or something? King of monsters? No, I didn't. Anybody? No, I haven't seen it. No. Last one I saw was Shin Godzilla. I was wondering because I was going to Ask if the tone of Claire De Loon by Debussy was ever in the movie because I didn't I didn't fucking think it would be That's that trailer my god When I do see it one day, I'll let you know

Okay, I might see it, I don't know, but it probably isn't I'm willing to bet it is it is not It seems like one of those stock music things like a cover of Claire Debussy or whatever Yeah, just throw it in. There's definitely a science to marketing, and there are some people that are very, very talented at it. There are some marketing companies that will

track the eye of the fucking person watching the ad and just like take the data and remake the ad, you know, to make it so it's more appealing to the eye. Yeah, that's what they do now. They measure the attention span and your brain and how your brain reacts to certain images. These

things are focused tested to fuck to do well. Unless it's the new Cats trailer or Sonic Yeah Like how did that happen? Yeah They kind of ran out of money in that department Gangsters Paradise

Yeah It screened it for blind people And deaf people And deaf people Oh this looks great What? Yeah I guess to answer the question How often do I do that?

I don't know Because there's some movies that I wouldn't Go see in the first place If I hadn't seen a trailer there's somewhere I'm unsure about it and I use the trailer as kind of like a yeah I'm probably you know I wouldn't see it but if this trailer shows something that I might like in it then maybe I'll see it so it depends on the movie yeah completely agree

it depends on like the filmmaker like if it's a director I trust or a writer I trust or something I'm more willing but if it's just like stupid blockbusters I don't care how watch true of a ball yeah I uh I got reservations to his restaurant this week I hope he's there. Oh, you did? Yeah, I'm finally going. I'm finally going. To a boxing match. Didn't he get his letterboxed

deleted? Yeah, and his Twitter. What a guy. It's probably because he was saying a bunch of rude shit to people. Yeah, you think. I mean, his letterbox is a little a little controversial. A little controversial, yeah, a little risque. All right, last question.

One more. From Hickran Ak. Denny's. I hope I got there, right? What is the worst part of having a huge audience? Did you ever have some serious trouble with fans? How do you cope with people who aren't giving any constructive criticism and are just there to insult you?

It's something everyone has to get over in this game. One solution is to not read it, but I don't like that. Because I like reading the good stuff. That's the same time. That's why I like Reddit, having a subreddit, where it kind of filters and it acts as a filter. so I can see the people who really want to actually interact with me. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. So it cuts out a lot of the shite. Right. Because it gets to the point where it's just it's a sea of just people screaming over each other and especially if you're talking about something controversial or, you know, that's part of a greater discussion.

Like it can just go nuts sometimes. And like it says in the question if you've had some serious trouble with your fans. I have had fans go too far before. Yeah, I think I heard. Find out information about me and stuff like that. It's one of the harder things to kind of get used to. Yeah, I've had that too.

Yeah. But after a while, your skin does just get thick when you're just like, you've seen the thousandth comment of someone saying how much they can't stand you and how, you know, they hate everything about you. And it's just like, whatever. Get used to it. The worst aspect about it to me, is the dehumanizing factor, you know?

Like, I'm, I'm a person where pretty much everything that I put out on the internet, like, I try to have as hard as I can an element in there to reinforce the idea that I'm still a human being. Like, I'm trying to be real. You can do, you know? Like, I don't want to be a fake person. And unfortunately, like, no matter what you do, there's always, especially if you have a large audience. Like people put

creators or celebrities or influencers or whatever they put them on this pedestal where it's less about understanding that they're a real person and all of a sudden they become more like a concept for an idea or like a representation for something that

they like or don't like. And so it works in both ways where like some people idolize to this ridiculous degree and other people just hate to this ridiculous degree. And neither is really healthy. Yeah.

And it's like, I'm sure. I'm sure we appreciate the support. Oh, of course. It shouldn't be too over the top. Yeah. It's just so concerning when there are people that are literally invested in, in like trying to make someone's life harder. Like that's what you're doing.

That's, that's messed up to me. But you got to got to just get used to it and understand that that's the internet. and the internet has a lot of crazies on it. The internet has a lot of children on it. Well, yeah, a lot of people are going through some shit as well. Exactly. Use the internet as a platform to just express that frustration they have with their lives. Yeah, take that out.

My God, you go on 4chan? Forget about it. It's the whole thing. It's just venting frustration. I don't think I've read a single positive word about me on 4chan. Yeah, they hate everybody. It's why it's interesting. It's hilarious, but you just ignore it.

That's all you can do. Yeah. Just ignore it and shrug it off. Yeah. Try to be a decent human being and other people will never see that. It's nothing you can do about it. Can't please everyone. Try to be honest.

Some people are going to use that against you. Yeah. Oh, for sure. You have to get used to people just saying that you've said things that you haven't said. Oh, yeah. And just spreading just bullshit about you that you've never said. Or even things that you've said. Or even things that you've said that people choose to interpret in the most, in the worst way they possibly can.

Right. Because they see it as ammo and it's not about the discussion. You know, it's not about trying to understand someone else. It's about like, ooh, I can use this. It's like, okay. It's like the lens you see things in too. And when you're on Twitter or YouTube, a lot of these people can get like, or they're in like a frustrated mood or an anxious mood because they're seeing just a feed of a bunch of negative shit. Oh yeah, Twitter's awful.

To trump this and fucking I hate this and fuck you. And I guess having just being in that mindset, every time you read something, even if it's one of our tweets, that's something positive. You're just like in that zone. So you're just in the worst kind of state of mind and you just write something fucking angry.

That sucks. I hate that. Yeah. Fuck you. Whatever. Everyone just loves taking people down. Yeah. Especially in the YouTube scene.

It's virtuous. Exactly. Yeah. And everyone acts like they never made mistakes and they've got like nothing to hide. Yeah. Until the camera, until the lens comes back on them when they get popular because they make loads of hate videos and then. Oh, yeah. It's always, it's always funny when it's like the exact type of thing that someone has, has like promoted, kind of like comes back to bite the middle of little.

Like I fully expect people to be like ripping apart the art that I create my album and shit. I think that's totally deserved, but I find that funny. Yeah, but it's so what? It's like you got to make the art and tons of people are going to love it. So who gives a fuck? It's a few people, whoever don't like it. That's basically all comes down to no matter how much they yell and screamed. At the end of the day, it's like, okay, they just didn't like it and I move on.

It's all so exaggerated, man. At the end of the day, we're talking about like entertainment, like movies for fuck's sake. You don't have to get so pissed about it. Jesus Christ, calm down a little bit. Remember what like the context of what we're talking about. Yeah. Be passionate about the right. Don't take that as an excuse to like be vitriolic against someone else who's sharing their opinion about art.

Yeah. In a genuinely like mean way. In a funny way, I think it's fine. Well, that's the goal. That's the goal for a lot of people is because they want to feel as though they have some sort of power and influence over the world that they're in. You know, they want to know that they can get at someone. So that's their goal. Yeah.

Right. And unfortunately, Twitter is, like, the entire platform is essentially just this virtue signaling competition. Pretty much. Like, everybody tends to be in some holy crusade against something, and you've got to prove to everybody else how part of this crusade you are. You know, it's such a bizarre environment. The algorithm does nothing but encourage it. Uh-huh.

I've never taken it that seriously. So it's crazy when people have these crusades I know, yeah I got no agenda I just tweet whatever I feel Yeah, it's always just been a bit of fun for me Yeah This is funny isn't it

But people take it so seriously that it's like Not as fun anymore You're afraid to tweet something Because you're like shit if I fucking tweet this I don't know I'm going to sign with them Which means there's there There's going to be some group that comes after me

Yeah Yeah If you have an audience You always have to like Try and be careful about how you phrase things and clarify. And there's been tons of things I've said where I can look back on it and say, yeah, I shouldn't have worded it in that way.

And the way that I did makes it incredibly easy for people to misinterpret what I've said. So I don't know. I feel like at the end of the day, as long as you're making that effort to make that clarification and be like, okay, well, here's how you've misinterpreted me. There's going to be people that it doesn't matter. And they'll ignore your clarification. They'll ignore everything that you've said to explain what they're mad about because they want to continue being upset with you. And they want to be able to have something that they can use against you and try to persuade other people not to like you.

And it's a very, it's very fascinating to me from like a character study perspective just how invested some of these people are. Like this is, this is their life goal. This is, this is their crusade. This is the battle you've chosen. It's like a hierarchy. They want to tear you from your pedestal and like throw you in the muck almost. Come down to our level. It'll come back around to them eventually.

Yeah, you never know. Whatever. It might not ever. It's fun. It's the internet. You don't take it seriously. You just go, whatever. Yeah, just chill out.

Yeah. It's not real life. You gotta be prepared for it. Well, you hope they'll come to your house. It's a part of it. I had a guy like, find me in the street one day and give me a movie. Like, you gave me a new brain movie. Nice.

I gave it back to him. But like that, like, you like, Even sure that's a nice thing to do but like how the fuck did this guy find me? How like why does he have this movie on him that he's gonna give me? Yeah it's weird I got an email like hey Ralph I know where you live just FYI like be sure to uh be sure to like hide where you live in the future so other people don't find out where you live because I'm not gonna do anything with this information I'm like what the fuck is this it's a real issue with some YouTube yeah it's so

dumb it's so dumb you know I mean it didn't matter I was in college so what the fuck were they gonna do yeah yeah it's kind of unsettling though it's like why did you even commit to trying to find that in the first place yeah is it just like a challenge for you it is a challenge but they found a landmark and then traced it uh whatever it's like the shy la buff thing when he had the flag out in the in the desert oh yeah that was funny yeah that was hilarious it's it's funny when it's not you yeah exactly yeah at the end of the day you know being uh Having this platform, having this audience is a conscious choice. I could stop any time I wanted to, but I'm continuing it.

So no matter what all of these little annoyances and frustrations that we have to deal with exclusively that people who don't have this platform and audience don't really have to deal with, regardless, it's still worth it. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Those people are minor, far or a few between. I love my annoying fans. Yeah, I got a good fan base. I like my fan base.

Yeah, a lot. We all do. I like my community. I'm so proud of this community. And now they're crossbreeding. Yeah. They're having babies. Sorry, guys, for some of mine.

They're having little Yoshi babies. Little I-H-E YMS babies. Just fucking memes. You've inspired a fan fiction. Someone's going to ship that. All right. Someone's got to recommend a movie, right? Yeah, I think it's Alex.

It's me, is it? All right? Yeah. So, this is one that I think has been a long time coming. Everyone on the Reddit's been asking us to do it for a long time I think I know We got to do death proof Yes

Ooh Thank you for taking it Because Yeah because I know I rewatched it I don't know a few months ago Perfect So it's still pretty clean in my head

But I know we will feel Somewhat differently about it Yes I think it would be a good discussion And it's been a long time since I've seen it So maybe I'll feel different like Okay Yeah

We need to clarify How we're watching it Right Because there's the original grind house where it's a part of the larger feature with the fake trailers. And then there's the individual extended edition. So the extended edition is, I think, I don't know, 10, 20 minutes longer. But it's an entirely different context of what the film is. If it's its own solo individual product rather than being a part of the grind house film.

So I'll watch whichever one. I'll probably watch both because I'm doing my 2007 list right now anyway. And it's 2007. Okay, that's the convenient. I mean, you're the biggest fan, which which would you recommend? Well, which ones have you seen? Which ones have you seen?

I've seen both. I have seen both. Okay. I just saw the grindhouse one. I haven't seen the grindhouse one for a long time, though. Okay. The differences in the extended version, as long as we've seen both, I don't think it really matters which one we rewatch.

Whichever one you think you're going to, I guess, I don't know, if you want to enjoy it, whichever, if you think the movie's too long, maybe watch the Grindhouse version and skip the whole first, I don't know, first movie or something. I don't know. Yeah, I'll try watching both, but I'll watch the extended one because I haven't seen that. Okay. Yeah, whichever one you haven't seen, I guess, but. Yeah, I've seen Grindhouse before with the trailers and all that.

I suppose that can be part of our discussion as well. It's like the differences between the two and one. Yeah. Like, I'm pretty familiar with both versions. Yeah, you seem to know. Every movie we talk about, Scott, like, multiple cuts. Yeah. Like, like, I keep forgetting.

about that whenever I recommend anything. That's what was nice about a racerhead. It was just one cut. One chapter. The movie was made right the first time. Yeah, just one chapter, one cut. It's done. It's a movie that's done.

Finito. I do respect that, I guess, about him. He's not a complete George Lucas. Yeah, he doesn't go back. When he releases something, it's done. Actually, though, I did find out that the original release was like 20 minutes longer. Yeah. I was watching the interviews.

No, an earlier cut. Shorten it down. Oh, yeah, you're right. Yes, you're right. And the test screening, people didn't like it, so he trimmed 20 wists. And then... Never mind, David Lynch. But again, it was a test screening.

That's not like a real... He didn't go back 20 years later and change it. All right. The guy's got more artistic integrity than... There are countless versions of every movie. George Lucas. We can't see every cut. Yeah, exactly.

Think of all those cuts of Holy Mountain before we got the final one. Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right. If anybody listening does not want to be spoiled for death proof, Quinn Tarantino film from 2007, watch it before the next episode in two weeks from now.

There's two different versions. Watch whichever one you want, I guess. The Grindhouse version is basically two movies together with some fake trailers in between. Just look it up. Look it up, figure out which one you want to do. And we'll be talking about that next episode. Thank you all for listening.

support the show go to sardonicast.com sign up for premium $2 a month we'll get you these episodes early once they're edited uh also patreon.com slash sardonicast same thing and we have some merch if you want to see they're in the video description uh thank you so much cats thank you everybody yeah thanks for listening yeah had a good time as always yes that was fun good discussion be sure to give disney your money yeah make sure see you Lion King. Yeah. Yeah. In theaters. In 3D. Seed in 3D. Oh yeah. That's what was missing.

That's what was missing of the old film. Sign the petition for Disney to buy Cats so he can get a Cats remake in two years. It would probably be better. Yeah, probably. I don't know. John Favreau's Cats. Just

No. It's basically what the new Lion King is. Anyway. I think we've John Favreau made that. Right? Yeah. He makes good movies, or he usually does. Especially after he made chef, which was all about how he hates the system.

Oh, that's funny. Yeah. That's so funny. On originality. Yeah. Yeah. Money. Whatever.

All right. Thanks for listening, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.