Sardonicast - Sardonicast #40: Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, Death Proof

Episode Date: August 13, 2019

Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/9vG73zS Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthe... Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovi... Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkind... Timecodes: 00:00 - Intro 4:20 - Cool Cat 10:28 - Uwe Bowles Restaurant 15:33 - Once Upon a Time in Hollywood 26:48 - Deathproof (SPOILERS) 1:14:25 - Q&A Adum's Recommendation for Next Episode is Southland Tales.

Three, two, one. Nassimia, somebody said I should have done that last episode because we were doing the new thing and they were like, what a waste. So I figured I'd make it even worse by doing it the episode after. We're Sardonic.

That was good too. Sorry loud. I think it was the right pitch. Is your voice okay? I'm fine. Are there the lyrics? Do you know, I just did it from, memory like through how it sounds.

I don't I don't speak the language. I just know what they're saying. No. But I think I know it phonetically or automatic peeicly. That's not the right word, isn't it? What's the word to use to describe just phonetically? No, phonetically is how it's spelled, isn't it? Don't ask me.

Now you've confused me by putting doubt in my brain, so someone out there is rogy. Anyway, I think I know it well enough just by how it sounds rather than. what the actual words are because it's my alarm clock so I wake up to it every morning really doesn't that make you hate it because I used to have the dexter theme is my alarm and I just got so sick of it after a while there are things that have ruined songs for me in that same sense but this song is not one of them there was a you know that song bird is the word yeah yeah so so as soon as as soon as the instruments drop out and you hear that surfa

I said that is my alarm once when I was younger Well because I needed to wake up and I wasn't waking up properly And I was like in high school And I was like always sleeping through my alarm I was like I need something that's just gonna make me like Awake yeah really jolting And it worked it works really really well

But it was fucking awful and I It would invade my dreams Like there would be somebody like Doing that in my face in my dream and I'd still be asleep and I'd wake up eventually but it was the most uncomfortable unnerving way to wake up and I was miserable for like months because I kept forgetting to change my alarm back to something else because I'd wake up and I'd be like well gotta go to school and then just go on with my day and then yeah that was miserable

that's why most of these phones don't have like stock alarms like that because it gives you fucking nightmares or it scares you that's like a so they have like that what you're doing So they just do like the nice wind chime like waking up or whatever but that shit doesn't work Yeah, I don't know like this is the first time that I've personalized my phone in a while I decided to change my alarm all my alarm clocks back and I decided to change my text notification to the sound of Master Chief dying in a little fun which is like such a great sound effect

Bhaar Yeah, yeah. All the death sounds in Halo 1 are phenomenal. That one's mine. Picture the guy in the sound recording studio. I think they're the best. Like Mike Shank in an American movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Those are my favorite death screams from any game. Oh, shit, I got to turn them off. Okay, there you. Twitter just loops them. Oh, yeah, yeah. The other one that's kind of a meme going around is like, Yoda from one of the Lego games. He has this like really unnerving death scream.

Sounds so bizarre. Oh, you don't know about it? It's not like the biggest meme. It's kind of like an obscure meme there, but it's a meme for sure. I'm a memeologist. Did you study it at uni? Yeah. Speaking of memes,

Cool Cat's been up to some shit again This might as well be a recurring segment at this point I'm basically making it that way There's something new to talk about every week or month You know Yeah we could have a name So what happened? Because I didn't hear anything about this Yeah I don't understand anymore

So remember back when I was speculating That Derek would just be in the suit playing Cool Cat because of the line cut down the screen and that other promo. Well, it turns out that he actually has that intention. And so he took a bunch of old footage from years ago when Cool Cat was doing the Hollywood parade and he repackaged it, repurposed it as a new video, but dubbed his own voice over the other actor who was already Cool Cat, Jason Johnson. So Derek dubbed his own voice over Cool Cat and it's very...

disturbing. Yeah. Like, imagine Daddy Derek doing an impression of Cool Cat, and that's what it is. Oh, my God. And that goes on for 10 minutes, and it's great. And so I guess what wound up happening was Jason Johnson. Although his relationship with Derek was already fragile, because Derek kept asking him to continue doing Cool Cat shit without really paying him much money.

and at this point after Derek moved to Vegas, it's like, okay, well, now this guy has to drive all the way to Vegas just to film some stuff that he's not really getting paid much for. He's already got a full-time job, you know? And so he was just like, okay, well, I can't really do it as much anymore. And then he wound up doing the interview on Red Soot interviews where he kind of, he's very candid. He's very, he takes the piss at a Derek a little.

And it seems like he fully understands, grasps the situation and he's self-aware about it even if Derek isn't and that made Derek very upset and so yeah after that point they're just not talking to each other and Derek's now playing pretty much every character so that's uh that's where we're at it might make it funny yeah it's um it's different it adds to the story it keeps things entertaining whenever whenever somebody makes a documentary about all this this is like the new chapter so i'm glad we i'm glad we're making progression here. And so now Derek,

despite that whole fiasco with both of us, he is now copyright claimed the two interviews on this guy's channel that just featured Jason Johnson, even though none of Derek's copyrighted content is in there. And he wound up saying on Twitter that, like, oh yeah, it's because you used Coolcat in the thumbnail

and some of my viewers got confused, which I think you're allowed to do, you know? I think you're allowed to use Cool Cat in your thumbnail, if you're interviewing the actor who previously played Cool Cat. I'm pretty sure that's related, Derek. As long as it's not misleading, then I think it's fine. It's not in any way.

It's very clearly an interview, yeah. Then Jason Johnson, I guess, in an act of vengeance or some sort of, I guess, karma, he copyright claimed the new Cool Cat video, which I guess two wrongs make a right. I don't know. I don't feel great about this. Because I mean, Derek is obviously in the wrong. Jason Johnson, you don't own the rights to that footage. Even if you were in it, even if he didn't credit you, like, you'd have to produce a contract that said that you somehow own the rights to the footage even if he doesn't credit you.

Like, that doesn't mean that you own the copyright. So now both of them are in this like copyright war and it's just like, okay, well, what is life anymore? This is over cool cat. This is over like a bizarre children's character. that no children actually like I was gonna say this is such a waste of time for everyone involved It's very entertaining

Because it's just over this fucking guy in a cat suit These legal battles And just all this nonsense That doesn't need to happen He hasn't made any new content in like two years I know he just repurposed the same old content It's totally ridiculous Just let it go and move on to something else

I would say keep making book at stuff Just stop copyright claiming people He should make cool cat stuff, but not like pretend to make cool cat stuff. He's just repurposing the same shit. He's ruined like every friendship, but he's ever had that it seems like. I know. It's always everyone else's fault. He blames the world for his problems and other himself.

So it just keeps going deeper and deeper. He's crazy. There's clear ways in which this could have been okay. He could have heard Jason Johnson's concerns in like, oh, wait, I'm not paying him enough. if I don't have enough money, maybe I should start a Kickstarter campaign and not scam people this time. Or, you know, if he had just not been such an asshole to everybody, then people would be flocking to support his projects. That's the biggest issue here is like he doesn't understand how the internet works. He doesn't understand that you can't just like copyright claim people completely unjustifiably, block everybody, lie on your Kickstarter projects, and then expect people to keep,

donating to your projects. I wish that he didn't do that because I want to see more of this, you know? I know. It's the classic try sound effect. Yeah, pretty much. So, that's where we're at. Just thought I'd give you guys the update. Yeah, thanks.

That was great. Can't wait for the next one in two weeks when he does something else that's stupid. This is more for me than it is for you because, like, I'm a massive cool cat voyeur, I guess. It's for everybody. Like, I am so fascinated and invested in this universe, the drama, the behind the scenes, the cool cat lore, all of it. I'm so invested. And then by the end of the day, if I don't tell people about it, then I'm the only one paying attention. I need somebody else to understand, man.

I need somebody else to go through this with me. So thank you guys for... It's your cinematic universe. It pretty much is so bizarre. I love it so much. Speaking of bizarre Uva Bowl owns a restaurant in Vancouver and I went and it was very nice

How was it? It was delicious Did you meet him? No unfortunately I didn't But I talked to the server Because by the end of the night Like as intimidating as Ova Bowl is I decided like okay well I have to at least ask

I have to at least try And so I asked my server And he seemed to be very intrigued By me asking to talk to him Apparently a lot of people do it, and he seemed to get the idea. He's like, yeah, he's a very interesting character, but he told me that he goes to Germany in the summer, to his home in Germany with his wife or something.

So if I showed back up there, not in the summer, he'd apparently be there like almost every day, is what I was told. Wow. I guess I'll go back. I wasn't expecting that. Apparently, he's very passionate about it. The food was great. Very good service, good atmosphere.

Surprisingly not that many people there. And my friends that I brought there had heard about this restaurant completely independently of any Ova Bowl thing. Like this is a renowned restaurant. This is like on Canada's top 100 something list. I feel like he could play his cards right and like get more of an audience in there if he wasn't such a, you know. Provocate. Exactly. Letterbox, you know, the shit he writes on there.

That's probably how he is with everything. You know, it's just his personality. He's very provocative. That's the thing, though, is like most people going to that restaurant don't know it's him. Like, most people have no idea. But he could have a whole crowd. Yeah, maybe. Okay, that's what you're saying.

He should. He should get like an agent, a new agent. Maybe he has one already. And they're like, yeah, let's repurpose your image to make you like a family friendly guy. He could have his own fucking chain of restaurants. I sent you guys some pictures. Did you read the, in the menu, there's a menu forward. I guess I'm going to read it for in case you did, but for the people in the audience that

want to hear. Born in Wermel, Wermelskirchen, Germany, Uva Boll was only 10 years old when he started filming shorts on his super eight camera. So this is like at the restaurant. It's literally in the menu talking about his movies now. Yeah. His drive to become a filmmaker has resulted in an explosive career in which he financed produced and directed over 35 features including Darfur awarded best film at the New York

Film Festival, Rampage, Auschwitz, Max Schmelling, and Assault on Wall Street. His films have been each sold in over 100 countries and played at more than 70 international film festivals. This is in the menu. This is in the menu. Bull's passion for excellent food and wine has led to his most recent venture, the opening of Bauhaus restaurant. Inspired by modern German cuisine, opportunity to bring the taste of contemporary Germany to Vancouver, much like his passion for film. Bull is adamant that every Bauhaus guest has a unique and pleasurable culinary experience. And then there's a quote from him from him at the bottom. My vision for Bauhaus is not only to bring cuisine from Germany, but have our guests experience, the culture of dining in Europe,

where food and wine go hand in hand, Ova Bowl in his menu. I think that's pretty great. Yeah. That PR spin, though, is hilarious. Oh, it's really great. It was like the most positive way you could describe his career. They've played in over 100 countries and over 70 film festivals. You know what I learned from that? That he made a movie called Auschwitz. I was like, what the hell is that? Yeah.

I looked it up. It's like a period piece about the Holocaust. I didn't know he did that. But it's like totally tasteless. And it has like a 3.1 on IMDB. I didn't watch it. Oh, we should watch it. It's probably terrible.

Yeah, maybe one day recommend that shit. What if it's great? It's probably bad. It's probably bad. Why would you say that? It's Oevo Bowl. Because he's not a very good director. Well, the food was great.

Yeah, the food is great. It's a little price here. He's a better at food. Expect to pay a bit. It's called Bauhaus. B-A-U-H-A-U-S. So there's your little plug, Ova-Bull. I really enjoyed your food.

Hope to get to have an interesting conversation. Yeah, come on the podcast, UV. Oh, my goodness. What would that be? Would you guys do that? I would totally do it. I would totally do it. Yeah, that would be amazing.

Covey if you hear this. Come on the podcast, man. You're more than welcome. I'll probably meet him in Vancouver, so I'll extend that offer. I'll be back. I'll see how that goes. Yeah, small plates, delicious. Great.

Oh, yeah, there was a big... The art on the wall said art. I don't know if you saw that picture that I sent you. The art on the wall in the restaurant said art, which was awesome. Just in case you didn't know what it was. All right. Ralph and I saw a movie. Speaking of art.

Which isn't out yet in the UK. Yeah, I didn't have a choice. It's about America. Yeah. In America, by America. For America. It would still be nice if it just had a timed release everywhere. It's such a big movie

Like Sony there's no real reason why you have to do that I wish she was projected on film in more places Because the film showings were very minimal And that's like the way he wants you to see it We haven't even said what movie by the way It's once a month of time in Hollywood It's um I was gonna say it's Hobbs and Shaw

Not quite I wish I was playing in film Yeah I really wanted to watch Hobbs and Shaw in 35 millimeter Oh, well. The way it was meant to be seen. Yeah, I did see it in 35 the second time.

The first time I just saw it. Oh, you saw Once Upon a Time in Hollywood in 35? Yeah, in 35. And so I did both. Yeah, you can notice a difference. I see why he wants people to watch it that way. The light just has a different feel to it. There is a difference.

I wish that there were better theaters in Vancouver equipped for that kind of thing. I know that there has to be plenty in Toronto, because like TIF has the best infrastructure for a film festival that I've seen anyway. But Vancouver, there's only one theater that is equipped to do film and the screen's not that big. So even though I saw the hateful eight there, it's like, well, you know, I didn't really get the full experience out of it that I should have. Yeah.

That's the thing. It's hard to project that way too. I saw it like right on Hollywood Boulevard, so they did a good job. I saw it at the theater in the movie, the Cinerama. Nice. Like, it's in that theater. That's always fun. Not in that, like, dome.

They were playing it there, though. That's really cool. Yeah. But it's an excellent movie, regardless of what format you see it in. So, I'm looking forward to you seeing it, Alex, see what you think of it. Yeah, but I thought it was great. Seeing it both times, I thought it was just, I think it's one of his best things. And I think it's probably the most timeless movie he's ever going to make.

I feel like history is going to do really good to this movie. What do you mean by time? timeless though because it is kind of like a period piece yeah but there's the movies that are clearly omages to like the like death proof we're going to talk about in the future or kill bill where they're very gimmicky and they have a lot of show and parts that are going to get dated over time I think over reliance on music and references and I don't feel that way about

this really yeah it's glossed with like 1960s the glamour and the music and all that shit but I felt like at its core there was so much more going on aside from that and it didn't feel gimmicky it felt like one of his least gimmicky movies I understand what you're talking about completely I'm not sure I would describe it that way

because I don't really consider I don't really consider Kill Bill to be like a very gimmicky movie I would call it like more stylistic I would call it more like upbeat also I feel like what really separates I love Kill Bill

too, to be clear. I feel like what really separates this film once upon a time in Hollywood is that it's a much more mature pacing in tone for 90% of it. 10% of it is like his same old Tarantino schick, in my opinion. But well, yeah, I'm not going to say, Alex hasn't seen it, so I'm not going to say anything. That's true. Yeah. But it is so bizarre because I really, really enjoyed.

the slower pacing. I really, really enjoyed how it was more character-driven, character-focused. Like, that's the most you get out of the movie, in my opinion. And, yeah,

I guess you could come out of that and it would feel like, yeah, it's less gimmicky. I think it's just different. I think it's just a very different goal in mind, and I'm not sure I would call either as gimmicky. I think with,

like, Kill Bill or Death Proof, he's mimicking a genre where the characters are more cartoonish, and more anime. Like, Kill Bill's very anime, very... So they're not, like, real people. They're not, they don't feel deep. But there's still very likable, fun characters within that genre he's doing.

Here, the characters are way more fleshed out, and I loved all of them so much more. It felt more like the characters from Pulp Fiction or Jackie Brown than it did, like, the caricatures or the stereotypes. He kind of does in his worst movies, the ones I don't like as much. I also think the movie looks excellent. I think on a technical level it's marvelous. I think Leo and Brad Pitt are great. Yeah.

I think it's their best performances, honestly. I can't think of a performance I like better from either of them. It's genuinely one of my favorite Brad Pitt performances. I might say that there's some better. Brad Pitt and Fight Club is like up there too. I would say my favorite Brad Pitt would probably be in 12 Monkeys. Have you seen 12 Monkeys? I think he did a amazing gun.

He's great in that. Or a burn after reading too is a great one. Yeah. I would say 12 Monkeys. would be my favorite pit. Favorite Leo? I don't know. I'd have to think about that one harder.

Titanic. Wolf of Wall Street is like the other one. And Django. He's good in Django. But he's not in it a lot. I was just thinking last night because there was a, no, not last night before. I was watching some really old David Blaine specials. And there's a really young Leonardo DiCaprio in one of them just talking about like performance

and magic being arts and all that. and he's so different. I keep forgetting that young Leo and current Leo are the same person. Like the guy in the Titanic this like pretty boy, it's so weird. He's changed completely. That's when he wasn't a good actor. Yeah. I wouldn't

say not good. Dude, in Titanic he's not good. Well, Titanic. Maybe we should rewatch that for the podcast or some shit. Maybe one day, but I do not like him with Titanic. I think an aviator, he almost ruins the movie. Oh, really? But maybe one day. Yeah.

Okay. I remember liking that, but I haven't seen that in a while. He's good in Gilbert grape. Catch me if you can as well. He's good in that. Catch me if you can. He's good in that. But like, the gang's in New York.

I don't like him. I'm going to try to voice my criticisms about once upon a time in Hollywood the best the best. The best I can without spoiling anything for Alex because he hasn't seen it yet. Yeah, it's hard. I know the other Brits out there. I want to like, you know, rebuttal too without spoiling anything. I'll do my best. Okay.

Like I said, I really enjoyed the slower pacing in town. I do feel as though 10% of the movie went back to his old schick. And I kind of wish that it didn't do that regardless of how satisfying it is. Because in the same way that like you would even call like the whole, you know, kill bill kind of tone you would, you know, maybe call it gimmicky. It felt as though the 10% of the movie that did that, although very satisfying, not going to lie about that, did feel like just kind of unnecessary.

Like it was from a different movie. And now that I've heard people's interpretations, and I'm not going to say exactly what these interpretations are, now that I've heard more interpretations, I'm warming up to it a bit more. I think it's something that I'll probably enjoy more on my second watch now that I know what to expect, if that makes sense. Yeah.

I was going to say that too. Upon my second watch, I liked it more because I knew what to expect and I knew that was coming. and also what you're saying about the interpretations of it. That's probably along the lines of what I got out of the ending. I think it for sure has like a thematic purpose for him telling the story. Again, we can't spoil it. Yeah, we're not.

I'm not. Are you going to spoil it, Ralph? No, absolutely. Watch out. I'm not. I'm not. I promise. I'm pretty good at not spoiling things, I think.

Yeah, it's always me. I know. It is. Some people do complain. We might as well mention this. Some people mention that this film feels sexist. I'm not sure. I'm not sure I entirely agree with that.

There's some people that are really upset about the representation of Bruce Lee, like the interpretation of his character. And just how he comes off is kind of like a wimpy joke. They found that to be like disrespectful. I don't know. Like I don't think Quentin Tarantino was necessarily. going for like saying that this is genuinely how he feels about Bruce Lee. I didn't I never got that impression.

I just thought it was one of those like okay alternate history sort of like you know wouldn't it be funny if this happened sort of thing exactly blueish bastards yeah yeah I never really got the impression that he hates Bruce Lee especially considering how much of Kill Bill was an homage to him you know I've always felt his own caricatureish versions of these celebrities. He treats them like their mythic figures almost Like their figures out of the Bible And he's just like, you know

Rewrides them to fit his story I like that a lot But the main characters are pretty fleshed out People also don't like how Sharon Tate is handled in the movie And not to say anything But I thought it was great And I thought it was very tasteful

Especially after seeing the haunting of Sharon Tate Or movies like that I haven't done that I thought it was very tasteful How they just more just paid respect to her they show footage of her in the movie, like in a theater, like footage of her, not Margot Robbie. Yeah. And I love that because it's like Tarantino is showing us Sharon Tate's performance and what she did back then.

I think that's way more effective and more powerful to make the story work than show Margot Robbie there. So I don't know why people were like, why is it Margot Robbie in the movie? Yeah. That would be disrespectful to like, CGI Margo Robbie. Yeah, I'll have to watch it a second time to really, like, solidify my opinions on pretty much anything that we've talked about for this movie. Like, I'm still... Sure. I would like to see it a few more times, too.

Not, like, super on the fence, but, like, still need to, I guess, confirm things to myself as to how I really feel about any of these. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. Seven out of ten, closer to an eight. But we'll see. my second watch. I gave it a five out of five. Is that your favorite of the year so far?

Second favorite. Midsomer is my favorite. You prefer midsummer, okay. Yeah. I like it more than climax. I've come to that. Yeah. Really inspired use of music too.

And I loved how he used like radio ads from that era as score and scenes. It was really brilliant. He's always great music. Yeah, he has. Like he always picks up obscure music and stuff. The only part, there was one. There was one track that was also in bad times at the El Real that was distracting, but that's it. Speaking of Quentin Tarantino movies, the recommendation from last week is deathproof,

something that all of y'all on the subreddit and other places are eager to hear us talk about and possibly bicker over. Yeah, because they know we disagree. Yeah. So spoiler warning for Death Proof and also Grindhouse. So like Planet Terror. Death Proof is a film that has come out of this passion project from Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino in which they decided they wanted to revive and bring back this 70s style kind of drive-in grind house double feature sort of thing for a newer generation. so that they can experience what they did when they were younger.

Many of these grindhouse films that would play double features would be very cheesy, very kind of like gratuitous, gory, horror, schlocky kind of thing. And so they really wanted to incorporate that element and basically make parody films. And what they wound up doing is they also got other notable directors, a lot of their friends, Eli Roth, Edgar Wright. Rob Zombie They got a bunch of people To do a bunch of fake trailers

For films that played before And in between each movie Some of those got turned into real films So machete got turned into a movie Robert Rodriguez decided to make one Machete one and two In Canadian theaters I'm not sure if you're aware of this

The trailer for Hobo with a shotgun Also played in between the films And at that point It was just a fake trailer So that also got turned into a real movie. And the reason why it was in Canadian theaters is apparently the filmmakers for Hobo with a shotgun won some sort of contest where they submitted their fake trailer and it got to play in with the grind house film. So yeah, these filmmakers from I think Nova Scotia. But yeah, that wound up getting turned into a real movie just because people liked it so much.

And yeah, it's really cool. Yeah, I like Hobo with a shotgun too. I like that movie. Yeah. I never actually saw the full movie because I turned it on and I was watching it with the wrong people. I think my mom and within like the first. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's not a good mom movie. It was pretty close to the beginning where somebody like had their head sticking out of a manhole and they got their head crushed by a car or something. She was like, turn it off. I was like, fine. And then I never watched the rest of it. But.

Anyway, I happen to love deathproof, still love it. I think it's a very satisfying movie for what I'm looking for. I know you guys do not feel the same way and probably still don't even after revisiting it. I don't know. You'll have to tell me. What did you guys think about it? Also, should we start with like the whole Planet Terra Grindhouse thing before we get into Deathproof? Because it's like I guess like chronologically, that one comes first.

Yeah, sure. Well, which one played first in theaters? Is it? Planet Terra. It was Grindhouse first, right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think Death Proof ever got, like, a release in theaters on its own.

I don't think either of them got a release in theaters separately. Yeah. I think they both only played as the Grindhaus thing. And then the extended versions of each got sold on DVD and Blu-ray. Maybe, like, small screenings, like limited screenings. Film festivals. Yeah, no, yeah. I think Death Proof actually went to Cannes or something.

I think that might have been a can. Yeah. Like Death Prox. Just Death Pro. The Planet Terror feels more. genuine to like the actual grindhouse. That's what I always thought as well. Yeah, I always thought that.

And that it's just kind of bad, you know, like it's just goofy and over the top. But like it knows what it is and it's fun. I would say death proof sure knows what it is. But Planet Terror is something where it is hilariously gory and cheesy. I'm not like ever upset at watching it. Even from what revisiting it recently. Like there were quotes in my head that I could see. coming that I can you know I'm gonna eat your brains and gain your knowledge just stuff that I was

quoting when I was younger that I really loved it's got a great cast Michael Bean Tom Savini Josh Brolin Freddie Rodriguez when did you when did you see this when I was saw like in theaters yeah so that was 2007 so I must have been like 15 I think oh wow yeah and I I swear to God I watched that movie in the grind house movie in theaters probably more times than I've seen any other movie in theaters because I kept dragging different friends to it. I was like, you gotta see this. I was so pumped. The whole experience.

Yeah, exactly. I was so excited and so happy that this experience was something that we could, you know, watch in a crowd in 2007. You know, getting like a little slice of the past almost, even if it's not completely genuine. Yeah. I was fucking

hyped for this movie, but it didn't make much money. I think I was like half the ticket sales. It's so wild. idea. I don't know how many people want to sit through two movies. He has such a niche idea. The potential amount of people who will ever even be interested

in it is already small. I'm surprised it did as well as it did. Yeah, to be honest. Good for them. That's just, yeah, when you put Tarantino's name in front of something, you get a certain amount of people at least. Yeah. Not Rodriguez? No. Because he makes crap.

Spy kids. Yeah. People aren't as hyped for his shit. Yeah. That's all. That's all you have to say about playing. of terror? Honestly, I mean, I saw it a few years ago. I've only seen it once. It was, like, bad on purpose, and it was okay, but it was boring.

Well, like, it is gory and fun. I agree with you that it's not, like, as memorable as deathproof. It doesn't feel like, which is why I kind of disagree when you say it's, like, more genuine, I guess. I guess it depends what you mean by that. Like, you're saying it's more genuine in the fact that it's bad. I'm saying that they're mimicking a genre of crap, kind of. I mean, not all of it's crap.

And Planet Terra was just, okay, we're going to make a cheesy, bad, explosive, and gory film that you're going to be entertained by. And death proof has elements of that. There's like 10 minutes of it that's that. And that part is okay. But the rest of it's like Tarantino trying to make a Tarantino movie. And it's like halfway a Grandhouse movie, but it's also Tarantino trying to make art. And I don't like it. Oh, really?

It's a mess. See, the way I would feel about that is if we're talking about Reintosh, creating the overall, I guess, narrative structure of one of those grindhouse films, then Robert Rodriguez did it much better because I don't think there would have been anything like Tarantino's movie back. There's nothing like it today either. Even Tarantino's own films, there's nothing like deathproof. It's very unique, especially in how it's structured.

Name another movie, I'm sure there might be some, but like name another movie where the main characters die halfway through and then you get another cast for the second half of the movie. I fucking love that it does that. Well, I would say the main characters are the girls you meet in the second half of the movie and you don't meet them until halfway through and you meet the villain in the first half. The first half is the introduction of the villain and the second half is the introduction to the heroes who defeat him. Yeah, but it's still a very unique structure.

Yeah, I guess unique is a way to phrase it. I thought it was like totally off balance and boring because of the way he structured it. I don't feel that way because I feel like the overall goal, I guess, maybe not completely, but part of what I really enjoyed about having it structured that way is that I didn't anticipate the deaths of those first characters at all. There are no movie, there are very few movies out there. where you can introduce me to a cast of characters and it wouldn't be incredibly obvious when all of them are gonna die,

especially horror movies, you know? Like, you wouldn't expect literally all of those girls to just die at that moment and just be like, oh, well, that's it. And then the movie just keeps going. I think that that's pretty genius in terms of, like, audience expectations. I didn't expect it,

but I didn't like any of those characters. Sorry, Alex, I'm cut you off. Go ahead. On that point, it does really help the tension build up in the second. second half because oh yeah I don't think it's it's not quite as much of a mess um as I think Ralph reckons it is but I also don't think it's as good as Adam does because the the first half I find really dreary and mostly uninteresting until uh the villain is kind of introduced

because he kind of commands the screen but there's so much time wasted on this like flowery look I'm quentin Tarantino look how smart I am kind of dialogue and I know the whole point is supposed to be it's sort of like a satire of like B movies like Manos and all that kind of stuff but it does get kind of annoying after a while but anyway going back to that point about the the second half is when it really kicks into gear for me because you know what this guy is capable of because of what they set up in the first part and you're expecting them to all die obviously so the subversion of that does make the impact of them getting revenge way more meaty and is really satisfying I like the grindhouse version better because it cuts down that beginning section so much more.

Because in the standalone release, there's much more of the first four girls, which I don't think are very interesting characters to watch. I think the dynamic of the characters that are introduced in the second half are much more interesting. Their characters are way more clear, well-defined. They talk about more interesting things. But you have to wait so long to get to them. And by the time you're there... The dialogue is very bad for all of the movie, I think, but especially the beginning, because I think he was trying to mimic the style of the films he loves more in that first half. The first half is kind of like a horror movie. But it's bad dialogue.

Yeah, it's more a grindhouse-y. And then, like, in the second half, it becomes more of a Tarantino film, I feel. That's when it kind of drops the whole grindhouse gimmick, basically, altogether, and becomes a different movie. To help me understand your position better, can you give me an example of the dialogue that you thought was bad? Dialogue that I thought was bad. Oh, my God. Like, what about it was bad, though? I thought every single line.

I never met real people that talk like that ever. I'm trying to understand your, I never met real people talk like that ever in my life. I can't. I don't have any lines written down. It seemed like he was doing cheap imitations of his previous films. Like, there's very sort of snappy pulp fictiony dialogue and there's like reservoir dog like nods here and there. But it felt very intentionally corny too.

But it didn't work because I didn't know what he was going for. Is this a good, is this a well-written? Or is this supposed to be bad dialogue? I don't know. And that's how I feel about everything in this film. The film limits itself by making it a try hard B movie. Like that's all it can be like at the end of the day compared to I think the film will be better if you like all his previous films. He's used these genre goofy movies to inspire his works.

But he elevates them. And he's held back so much by that corny B movie style in my opinion anyway that. Yeah. It doesn't really enhance or. or I would just prefer to see some of these characters sort of fleshed out in a more typical Tarantino way without the B movie gimmick. I don't like the mimicry of old cheap movies.

This film costs $30 million to make. It's a big Hollywood film. I want to see some production value. I don't want to see, like how did you spend $30 million mimicking a cheap as shit fucking genre? No, I... That's why I like Hobo with a shotgun more because it had more authenticity to it.

It felt like I was watching one of those real films. Or dead alive, yeah. I didn't like, I just don't like the tone of this film. I find that very fascinating because, like, I'm a big fan of recreating those types of genres. Whether it's like, oh, yeah, it looks intentionally cheap or not. Like, you have to understand that to create even a cheap-looking film nowadays that looks like a 70s movie, especially when you're using real film, it's going to be like fairly expensive to do that regardless

and I feel like in terms of how he was able to create something that felt genuinely 70s he did a much better job than Rodriguez at doing that Rodriguez's film in terms of the cinematography style in terms of most of it I want to finish my point here because like in Rodriguez's film I read a review back when this grindhouse thing came out I have no idea who said this but the quote is always stuck

with me saying that Rodriguez's film feels more like a new movie that's been played on a projector and the film reel has been played like hundreds of times and is really worn out. Whereas Quentin Tarantino's film feels like a genuinely old movie that's been played maybe a few times, you know, like he didn't add as much of that like grainy scratches, the imperfections, the wear and tear. Yeah, light leaks. Yeah, stuff like that. Like Quinton didn't add as much of that.

but that's because his film is just so much more genuine in the production design in the actors. I think there's tons of that in the movie though. No, it's there, not nearly as much as Robert Rodriguez is, that's for sure. I mean, I don't know. I think it's in the film a lot to a point where I thought it was distracting. Really? But I agree with you. I enjoy directors paying.

Really? Again, I saw Planet Terror two years ago, so I can't remember. Because I felt like I had read more. No, I didn't rewatch that one. I watched the full-length grind house. this time, which I had never seen. But Planet Terror, you watched the full-length grindhouse this time. That has Planet Terror.

No, I watched the full-length... Death-proof. Sorry. Full-length death-proof this time. The directors cut. Yeah, yeah. I confused myself. But I enjoy directors paying homage, like you said, what Tarantino just did once

upon time in Hollywood. I genuinely feel he's paying homage to an error, but also telling a story. And here, all of that stuff just felt distracting. And he uses it for comedy. Like, there's the opening where he changes the title of the film and he throws in all kinds of shit like that. And I didn't find any of that funny. I love it.

Yeah, again, you love it. I'm happy you, I'm happy someone to enjoy it. But I really just thought it was so annoying almost. Yeah. Just like, I'm like, yeah, I'm watching a guy referencing these old things, referencing these things he loves, but there's nothing to it. It's all just references. There's no characters I care about in this film.

There's no story here. It felt like a director jerking himself off for two hours, honestly. And he's even in the film, and he's fucking terrible. Oh, yeah. This is the worst acting he has ever done. But I feel like it is appropriate and fitting for this film. I am forgiving of his worst performance of all time because it's in this movie. But that's the thing.

He uses it as an excuse. Like, oh, this is a parody. I'm mimicking a bad genre. I don't like that excuse. Did you not like Black Dynamite? Black Dynamite's an amazing movie, right? Like, there's shit like that throughout. I know so much better than that.

Black Dynamite is way more clever than this film. Well, first of all, Black Dynamite has way more jokes that are not related to the genre. It has, like, political humor. It has that whole shit with Richard Nixon. Okay. It's just a way funnier movie. And also, it doesn't take itself seriously at all. It's not trying to be an art film.

It's not trying to play a con. Every, it's just a total joke. And there's, like, people fucking drop in boom mics. these people saying actions from the script as lines of dialogue. And this film isn't that. It's partly that, but it's also Tarantino trying to make a real film. And it doesn't work. So you guys don't like that it doesn't commit in one direction or the other.

I love that it's a mix of both. Well, yeah, because just referencing a bunch of things from the past doesn't make your own original story. The point of the film and what people get out of it is the fact that they recognize the reference. and they know that like bad B movies are fun and they recognize all the posters in the background and stuff and that that's that's fine and cool if you're into that kind of thing but if you're not the film's largely unengaging for a large selection of the runtime see here's the thing is that I don't feel like you've described my enjoyment for me like I don't feel like that's an accurate way of of describing my experience watching the film like what I get out of it I don't find the dialogue terrible at all and I I kind of want to bring back the comments you guys made saying that you felt as though it was Quentin Tarantino trying to be Quentin Tarantino in a sense. Like the dialogue was essentially him trying to recreate other films or like the tone or like the quirkiness in terms of conversation of other films he's made. Yes. You feel that way?

Especially in the second half. That's a perfectly valid thing to feel. And I find that fascinating because there are tons of people. everywhere that would say that about other films that he's made. Everybody has a moment in a Quentin Tarantino film where it's like, oh, this is just Quentin Tarantino trying to be Quentin Tarantino. For me, it felt that way in the opening scene of Inglorious Bastards when they're talking about like, oh, did you know that you wouldn't let a rat into your house, but you'd let

a squirrel into your house? Well, technically, they both could carry diseases. Didn't think about it. That was one where it felt exactly as what you guys are describing. to me. And I feel like a lot of different... Exactly. And I find that fascinating

because a lot of different people... It's all personal preference, yeah. Well, that's the thing, though. It's like, it is personal preference. And a lot of different people have very different responses, especially when it comes to Quentin Tarantino movies. There's been people arguing in both of our subredits

in Sardonicast and YMS and whatnot about like ranking Quentin Tarantino films. And I feel like his filmography is one of the most like non-unanimous in terms of, Which ones people think are great and which ones people think are not that great. I'm not a big fan of Django, you know? Like, everybody has a different movie when it comes to that. I find it fascinating.

I feel like most people go with Pulp Fiction or Jackie Brown. I feel like those are the two people jump to. Most people go with Jackie Brown in their, like, top, Quentin Tarantina? I feel like, a lot of film critics are like, oh, yeah, Jackie Brown is my favorite. Yeah, there's a film film. Casual filmgoers are usually like Pulp Fiction or Kill Bill. Some people, I've seen a lot of. kill bills too. But it's mainly

Jackie Brown and kill it and uh, Pulp Fiction. No, yeah, I do find that fascinating that, you know, the same criticisms that you could throw it pretty much any Quentin Tarantino movie are, are just scattered throughout his filmography. And depending on the type of person you are, you'll say the same thing about one and then just completely disagree about the other. Okay, but for the experience, he's trying to mimic with this film. I want the grind house experience.

Or I can just have a Tarantino film. I didn't get me either. I got a mix of both and I couldn't tell whether he was writing bad dialogue or whether he was writing Well, you also are forced to focus on it more because they just linger on these scenes that don't seem to be progressing a story for so long I feel as though it develops character and in the same like obviously his newest film once upon a time in Hollywood which we're not going to spoil His newest film is has very different goals very different tone and pacing But one could easily say to that movie like oh yeah the dialogue didn't really progress the story like I had friends that I saw the film with that said that about the movie.

Most people that didn't enjoy his newest film would say those exact same things about his newest film. But I guess it really just comes down to like what kind of tone and pacing and experience you really want out of a movie. And I feel like death proof. And yeah, again, I loved once upon a time in Hollywood. But death proof is one where it really, it really sells exactly what I want. I feel like it's like the perfect amount of cheese, the perfect amount of like character

development and intrigue. I didn't find the characters in the first half necessarily likable, but I found them very interesting. I found what they were talking about interesting. I love the dialogue in the movie. I don't consider it to be poorly written at all. I guess that's a difference. Yeah, that's a huge difference,

because I think the dialogue is terrible in this film. Which is why I wanted an example, because I want to, you know. Oh, yeah, but again, I don't have the script. I should have written some down, but I want to talk about the big style shift toward the second half of the movie because Kurt Russell kills the first group of girls.

Then it's black and white for like a few minutes as we're introduced to these new cast characters. Not in the grindhouse one. That's one of the change scenes. Also the lap dance isn't in the grindhouse one. Yeah, which is a shame. The lap dance is one of the best scenes. Oh really?

Yeah, that sucks. Yeah. I think, well, it was a lap dance, but like it was well shot. It was like a well-shot, well-structured scene overall. Okay. Yeah.

But like in the second half of the film, I think what he was trying to point out is in the first half of the film, there's a lot of close-ups on asses, there's a lot of more misogynist dialogue. And I think he was pointing out the kind of misogyny of those films at that time in that era. Then in the second half of the film, the female characters who were more developed and more Tarantino-ish take down the misogynist man and completely Damascus. emasculate him by like kicking him and he's like screaming like a little baby. Oh, it's very satisfied. And they, yeah, and then they stomp on his face and that's the end of the film. I get what he was trying to do and I like that message. That's one of the things I like about the film.

Yeah. But again, it's way too long and way too jumbled and messy for me to even get that out of it upon a first viewing. I didn't, I don't really, I don't even read into it that much. I'm not like analyzing the. themes of this movie at all I don't even feel like it's one where you need to and I'm not saying you're over interpreting it because those themes are totally valid Oh no that interpretation is totally valid. Oh yeah, I think it is too because if if that's not an interpretation Then I would say the movie is a little sexist because it has lots of close-ups on asses

No, well Which is fine if it and feet feet feet is a lot of it and if it's a I think it has a point so I'm not saying that about well yeah. I mean like that's also an imitation of a stop file too, right? Like whether or not it has a point. He's highlighting it and deconstructing it, which is what he always does. And I like that. I feel like it also has more to do with the characters that are presented in each half of the film, right?

And I get that you guys were like totally bored by these characters. But I really love that exploration that, you know, they're faced with this guy that knows them inside and out just by eavesdropping on their conversations. He has them figured out in a way where he can emotionally hurt them Or he can make her feel bad that nobody came up to her and asked for a lap dance the entire night That she was expecting it and that she felt a little wounded and damaged by it Like I love the exploration of these characters I feel like it's very clever It's not just nonsense, you know and it's not trying to be this like majestic art film for sure

But there is substance there for sure There totally is substance there is There's really, I really enjoy the characters in their development. I don't, I don't think that it's just like a big waste. I don't think the dialogue's bad. And that's like a big difference we have. Yeah, no, there are so many scenes that I was just rolling my eyes at the, at the dialogue, like when they're just talking about how hard it is to get weed and shit.

And it's like, yeah. I mean, if you don't think it's terrible, I think in terms of Tarantino's filmography, it doesn't stand out at all in terms of the dialogue writing. I think it's no Inglorious Bastards, it's no pulp fiction. Like, the scenes of these people talking just don't have that much weight to them. The story wasn't going anywhere. There was no, like, where is this leading to? That's how I felt the whole time.

When is it his best, Tarantino feels like the dialogue's just effortless. These actors are just, the chemistry is perfect. The scene is, like, balanced in terms of, like, tension or whatever this is trying to go for. but it just there's something missing it's like missing that X factor it's because they're not real characters I feel when you have real characters it just rolls off the tongue

and these are like cartoon characters these are total caricatures supposed to paying supposed to be paying homage to characters from 50 years ago didn't you just describe the kill characters and kill Bill is that though like earlier in this podcast

but they're way more fleshed out way more fleshed out than the characters and first of all we have two films to flesh those characters out these characters are killed off 30 minutes No, I mean like there's different goals for the film, right? Yes, different goals for the films, but like these characters in this film have no agency.

They go to this bar, they say terrible dialogue, and then they get killed. It's a slow burn. The bride and kill Bill has a want, she wants things and goals, and that's interesting. Even if it's a caricature, the caricature wants something, and I'm interested in their journey. I don't give a fuck about anyone in this film. The goals in the first half are more. more clearly defined by Kurt Russell, that's for sure. Like, all we know about these girls is that they're fucking awful people.

We learn that, you know, she bullied Rose McGowan when she was younger, they have like a bit of a feud, really vapid and self-concerned and like apparently Jungle Julia slept her way to the top and thinks she's hot shit, you know, and I feel like it's a really nice slow burn in terms of like the development of waiting for for Kurt Russell to ultimately wind up destroying them and killing them. It certainly is patient in that sense in terms of like that type of story structure, but that's all I want out of it. I didn't want this like complicated like they're, you know, comparing it to planet terror. I didn't want any kind of, there's this disease and like the, you know, the husband is abusive towards the wife and, you know, she's an. the sociologist and, you know, this complicated storyline and Bruce Willis shows up.

Like, I didn't want any of that. I wanted something simple where I could just experience the tone, experience the filmmaking, experience the characters. And I know you guys didn't like the characters, but I felt like I was just able to soak it all in more because of how it was presented. Okay. I get that. But the way it's structured, I thought, we say it's unique.

I thought it made the whole film really uninteresting because we're watching characters with no agency being just existing, and then Kurt Russell comes in 30 minutes in, kills him. It's like, okay. That first 30 minutes is effectively a stretched out version of the opening of every horror movie where the like villain or horror icon gets the first kill and kind of teases what's coming.

It's an extended version of that. And once you figure that out, it's either, oh, this is a really cool idea, or it's kind of irritating to you because you know it's all pointless. Like there's a reason those scenes, scenes always so short in horror movies because they are pointless characters. Here's the thing.

They're plot-divized characters that exist to be killed. I feel as though because of how it's presented in this film, these characters aren't nearly as pointless as any other horror movie that we would be shown. I think they are. They have more development. Totally more development. And once again, like, I don't know if you... I just think they talk more.

Well, I mean, I just talked for a few minutes about their characters and what I was able to pick up from them. Like, I don't think it's completely substanceless. I'm assuming when you guys first watched it, you thought they were the main characters in that same subversion of expectations where they die was like, oh, they're not the main characters. I feel like that's something so genuine and unique to this film that you can't get out of pretty much any other movie because of that. I'm sick and tired. Martyrs did that. Yeah, martyrs did that.

That was great. Like, that's part of the reason why I love martyrs too. But it's very, very infrequent. It's very rare to see something like that. because most of the time the standard formula for a horror movie is literally just what you described saying the opening scene is to just show the killer and to have people you know if you show what he's capable of he or she is capable of then people will be scared for the actual characters and I really enjoyed that the characters that were basically used as an example for the characters that followed I really enjoyed that the first characters had more to them like we

we got a story out of it. I feel. Like I got a story out of it. I got a narrative out of it rather than just like, oh, hey, I'm going to the cabin. Oops. Dying. Like, you know, like, I love that so much. What makes a film so frustrating to me, though, is the way you're describing it and the way

it exists on paper is a good idea. There's some really fun, unique, fresh ideas that he's so well known for at this point. But there is just something not holding it together when you're watching it. It just feels fleeting, whereas other films don't tend to do that for me. Yeah. I can't tell what he was trying to do ironically and what was intentional. That's what I mean about the B-movie aspect kind of holding it back. It really holds it back.

He should have just devoted to one or the other. To talk about positives, I like the car chase at the end of the film. I think it's really well executed. I've watched that a few times on YouTube. Oh, it's fucking phenomenal. It's amazing. It's a well-made car chase. The first car chase is one of the best car chases ever.

I wish I cared. Yeah, the car chase is, I mean, the car crash is good too well. Which is showing every perspective. None of that is done digitally. Like when she gets her tire in the face, like that's all practical effects. He filmed it with like a super high speed camera and literally just had this dummy rig with all this like fake flesh underneath her face. And literally just had this contraption. where a tire would spin and smash into her face and skid and all the blood comes out everywhere.

It's such a cool shot. I love it so much. It's some of the best practical effects. One of the best car chases after. Yeah, the leg. Yeah, I was going to say the leg sticks out in my mind. It's such a powerful scene. It's incredible.

I think it's awesome. I love the editing in this movie. I think it was Sally Menke's last film before she died. She did all of Quentin Tarantino's movies. I think this was the last one. I think that there's a lot to appreciate about the filmmaking in this movie. Really?

Yeah. Like the second half, I think, yes. The first half, I got to go with a no on that. Yeah. It'll be a no for me, dog. Yeah, I think that's why it kind of fails for us is because the film starts to get interesting after that first car crash, really.

I'm interested. The moment it starts until the moment it ends. It's a wild thrill ride for me, even when it's just dialogue. I love it. I love seeing Kurt Russell in the background of those shots as the girls are talking. That is neat. How long was that single take shot? It was like, what?

I think I wrote it down in my phone. Yeah, like this gigantic long shot of Zoe Bell and Rosario Dawson and Mary Elizabeth Winstead and that other girl. You know, I really enjoy the dialogue in that scene. like there's some really funny jokes. Like, you know, it happens to motherfuckers that carry knives. They get shot. I love the development of their characters.

I love how it plays into the end of the film. You know, they're having this casual conversation about two of them being stunt people and how Zoe's a cat, apparently, because she keeps, you know, they casually talked about a conversation or a situation where she was, she should have died, but she didn't. And that just seems like fun, playful banter. but then it comes into play later, which is fun, you know. And it's kind of a joke in the way that it does it for sure.

It's definitely meant to be like this fun interactive theater experience where people are like laughing or clapping or whatever. Like it's the type of movie that I would totally just, I would want to watch it in a group every single time. And I could totally enjoy it by myself too, but like it's a very fun group experience. How did you guys watch it by the way? Did you guys watch it in a group?

No, this time I didn't. No. First time I think I did. First time I saw it. It's the best experience for sure. Yeah, definitely. I still didn't. I don't think it would change in my mind if I saw it again with people.

I want to go back to the Havs structure of it. You guys like it because it leads up and then they kill the main characters of the first half of the film. And you're like, oh, I didn't see that coming. But then the second half of the film, we're basically treated to a repeat of the movie again. It's the same exact fucking thing. The girls are introduced. they go and talk and eat and then Kurt Russell comes in

and then this is the car thing except this time they win it's the same exact thing and I thought it was so uninteresting because it's like okay now I know what's going to happen they're going to win this time so the first half of the film I was bored out of my mind because I'm watching boring cartoon characters

and then the second half it was just I knew what was going to happen I knew the whole structure of it and I didn't like those characters either I really enjoy the character I like the second group of characters, but I really don't like the first group. I think the actors are just better in the second, to be honest. That probably carries it better for me.

I didn't think any of the acting was terrible except Quentin Tarantino, but most of it was like really bad. I think they were giving their all. I just think the dialogue was really bad. We kind of, we briefly mentioned the car chase scene at the end. I think that it's fucking nuts that he basically just, the concept for this movie almost is just written around Zoe Bell playing a character

so that he can get the stunt woman, the real-life stunt woman who was Uma Thurman's stunt double and kill Bill. He's like, you know what? I love you, Zoe. I'm going to write you a character. I'm going to write her in the same way that I've known you and you can essentially play yourself. She literally plays herself in the movie.

And basically, just to have the excuse of this like 20-minute long car chase scene at the end where she's hanging off the hood of a car for real with like, no wires or anything she's actually doing it I think that's fucking insane I don't know if a lot of people watching this movie know that it's real stunt work

and it's not you know there's nothing being edited out there that it's legitimately she's hanging off the foot of this car while the other car is like crashing into it and stuff like risking her life for this movie and it totally pays off I think that it looks amazing she's also a better character for it too

Oh, she's been purposefully written with that backstory already in mind, and it helps with the performance. It helps make the character more interesting. She's got a strong personality right away. You like her. Yeah, that's why I like that group a lot more. They're much more distinct and memorable to me. The audio editing during the car chase,

like the engine revving in each shot, and you can hear their voices pretty clearly, and you can constantly hear the sound of like the wind and the engines of the car. Like everything's mixed together really, really well. You know, all the sound effects are very purposeful and like nothing feels out of place in that sense. It feels like it has like a much higher production value

by the time it gets to that point in the movie than anything that he would be parodying. Yeah. And it catches you off guard. That's why I like it. He easily could have made something where in any of the death scenes. he would have had the excuse to be like oh whatever I'm just going to make something that looks dumb and cheesy

like some gory Eli Roth thing where it's like nobody thinks this is real but it's funny because it's a parody of a 70s movie he easily could have done that but he didn't he made something that looks great he didn't half ass it and I love that he didn't yeah I didn't really have many issues with the film on a technical level I thought a lot of it was pretty good but it all comes back to two things it's just the intent and the writing of it all

because I just don't buy it, man. It's just kind of irritating the gimmick of it. The gimmick is like the number one, like in the hierarchy of importance. This has to be a stupid B movie first, and we have to make it look and sound the way those films did. Yeah, and tell a story second. That was the biggest thing. Yeah.

That was from it. Like, we're describing these scenes, which are fantastic. They're executed by a skilled hand. But then there's scenes like the sheriff and the deputies. deputy fucking talking in the hospital and it was literally pointless. Exposition dump. Sorry? It's a reference to the films from the 70s and the 80s that he loves because they

probably have scenes like that where the actors couldn't show up for a day or whatever and then the police talk and have an exposition dump. That wasn't a very long scene or anything. It was just transitionary to me. But why was it in the movie at all? Because it's funny. Those characters never show up again. No, would they show up in Planet Terror and they show up.

up in the other characters show up in the Kill Bill films oh yeah they do yeah like it's all in the extended universe he's like son number one like yeah he's a lot of references to his own movies in this too he's the guy that investigates the massacre uh in kill bill like at the wedding yeah it's funny i think it's funny i'm trying to remember well the reservoir dogs in the diner oh yeah yeah i think it was reservoir dogs also it's just references oh no it wasn't reservoir dogs it was from dust till dawn i might be talking about different ones i think yeah He does reference reservoir dogs in. I don't like when Tarantino references his own stuff.

No? No, I think. I've kind of too expected. I didn't like it in once upon a time in Hollywood, but I forget it. One of the guys is named Antonio Margueretti, which is the scene in Inglorious Bastards when they're imitating the Italian people. That's one of the guys. He goes, I'm Antonio Magered.

So he'd like copy that. Yeah, he's very self-referential. That's the only one I'll be able to get it. You got like Apple brand cigarettes and stuff. Mm-hmm. He references the Big Kahuna burger or like that fast food chain and other movies.

In death proof they're eating the restaurant that they're eating from is like the amigos or whatever which was like a fake commercial in between the films too which is kind of funny. I love that he doesn't put like real brands in his films.

I love that he's just like you know what I don't like product placement and so many people make the argument where it's like oh you can't even make a movie without product placement and he's like yeah I can I'll have fake brands Yeah fake cheeseburger It's like McDonald's it's fine

Although they do reference McDonald's So there is product placement That's not really product placement though They're just talking about McDonald's yeah But he did do it Yeah I guess so A brand Gotcha Quentin

Was sort of just that an impasse to be honest I think I understand your positions well Yeah A lot of talent What you want out of the movie right Or at the waste of an annoying, meandering vision. Mimicking trash from the 70s. That's the thing.

It's like, what do you expect? If you're mimicking something that is shit, like, it's going to be a bit shit. Yeah, but it's inauthentic shit is the problem. I do enjoy watching, like, okay, well, I feel, well, it is inauthentic because he's trying to make an exploitation film from the 70s and it isn't that. So inherently, it isn't authentic. He made something entirely new, which is awesome. He made a mix of that, but also something new, instead of just making an homage to that or making a Tarantino film. I love seeing unique movies that have never been done before.

That's my thing. I didn't like his out-amalgamation of it. Okay, something unique, but not something that's boring and structured in a way that makes no sense and has pointless scenes and just references to old films without anything original in there. This film has no like to stand on on its own, I feel, regardless of the fucking grind- house element and the gimmick. It doesn't have a story there. That's interesting. And that's fine.

I think there's nothing to it. If only the pacing was a bit quicker, I could put up with some of the other stuff, but it does just linger, especially the first section of the movie, to me, is really dull and uninteresting. I could watch this movie a billion times and never feel bored. I'm excited and invested from like the moment it starts until the moment it finishes. I'm just enjoying myself the entire time. So where does it rank in your sort of Tarantino list?

So you've rated it, what, nine or so or something? Yeah, I give it a nine. Because you just rated Hollywood seven out of ten. Yeah. So you think it's better than that film, it's better than some of his other previous work? Well, first of all, I said I'm going to have to watch the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood a second time. I think that, you know, in terms of, again, this is all an argument on, like, intent and, like, the purpose of the film. I feel as though the issues that exist in deathproof

are more forgivable in a film like death proof that's not entirely trying to take itself super seriously because I don't feel it is and I understand that you might feel as though it is trying to take itself super seriously I don't think it is. Yeah, it is. So something like Quentin Tarantino's terrible acting. If that showed up in like Pulp Fiction,

that would seriously impact my experience of the film. But it's showing up in this deathproof. grind house thing. Like, it doesn't hurt it at all. It's just kind of funny. It's like, Quentin, you're bad, you know, but I'm, it's, it's an exciting, again, like, kind of audience engaging kind of movie where, like, you can have friends over, you can be talking or shouting over it, laughing. It can be drunk people that aren't fully paying attention. And it's still a good vibe and a good experience. Whereas, like, any, a lot of other Quentin Tarantino films, I'd have to be like, shut up. Like, you're, don't talk over the movie sort of thing. You know?

So it's all depending on the type of experience. And I love those kinds of movies. I love good, fun movies that are there to entertain. I don't think it necessarily needs to be anything of like super higher value in terms of seriousness or tone or statements or anything like that. That's fine. I don't hold it on high value at all. In terms of how I rank them, I would say Kill Bill and Pulp Fiction are my favorites. And I would consider Kill Bill 1 and 2 is the same movie.

those are both like 10 out of 10 for me. Death proof might be my third favorite. Not trying to say that it's objectively the third best Quentin Tarantino movie or anything, but in terms of how much I enjoy it, in terms of just like my experience watching it, I fucking love it. I could watch this movie a million times.

For me, it's clearly his weakest film, all of them, pretty much. I think he even knows that. A lot of people feel that way. He's referenced it and talked about it. Yeah, he apologized for it, which I feel is sad because I think that has more to do with people just being pissed off at him than it does about him genuinely feeling like he made something terrible.

Well, because I think it's an annoying movie. To a lot of people, for sure. I think it's very underrated, but I will defend it. I mean, the marketing, too, was a little misleading because it's grind house and death-proof. You know, you're expecting a lot of car chases and stuff, and the film is a lot of dialogue. The marketing spoiled the movie. I'm okay with that, as long as the dialogue is good. Don't watch the trailer if you haven't seen the car chase.

It literally showed them, it showed them like winning. Like the trailer for death purpose. Well, yeah, there's nothing else happens in the movie. You got to sell the movie on the action scenes, right? And there's no action except the end of the movie. It would be very difficult to market. Again, that's what the films did back then. Yeah.

So I mean, it's just like a passion project that loads of people happen to get sick as Quentin Tarantino made it. Yeah. It's almost like more for him than it is for us. And you're either going to like or you're not. Good, then. I won't watch it. What would you get out of 10, boys?

I would give the Grindhouse version 3 stars out of 5 And I'd give the extended version 2 and a half stars out of 5 Okay I would give it a 2 out of 5 I can't remember the death proof from Grindhouse All I can speak for is the new one

That I saw the extended Tarantino death proof Which I give a 2 out of 5 Okay I mean just the fact that he re-edited it into his own, like he re-edited the movie. That's what Lucas did too. There are different versions, though, and you can still watch either of them. I don't care if someone wants to re-edit their movie.

You could say the same thing about, like, Ridley Scott and Blade Runner. You could say the same thing about a bunch of... Fair enough. You could say the same thing about director's cut for Donnie Darko. I don't know. Like, as long as you're able to watch both versions, I don't really have an issue with it. George Lucas's issue is that he doesn't want you to be able to see the original film. That's what pisses me off.

Yeah, it doesn't exist. I wouldn't, yeah. It's the new one. That's the only one that exists. All right. Yeah, two out of five. That was fun. I stand by my older rating.

That's all good. Also, Harvey Weinstein produced this movie. Oh, yeah. That's a point. Yeah, like, but I mean, that's what I mean about, like, the close-ups on the asses, and it's clearly self-aware and, like, more deconstructing that kind of filmmaking from back then. But also, Harvey Weinstein produced it. So is it genuine?

Did Harvey Weinstein order that? Because he's a producer. He has some impact on what happens in the movie. Once upon a time is Quentin's first non-Winstein movie. Yeah. Yeah, it's about to read. I think Harvey Weinstein was less concerned with butt shots and movies and more concerned with taking advantage of women in real life.

Yeah, but his fucking perviness was all over. He fucking ordered women to do nude scenes. It was in the movies he made. It's in everything. Okay. He's a creep. I have to see all of his movies then. He fucking, he ordered Salma Hayak to do a nude scene.

I believe. Like, otherwise, you wouldn't get the part. Oh, really? It's like all kinds of shit like that that he did. Okay. Involved in his movies, too. Yeah. Whatever.

It bothers me, too. That is a thing that genuinely bothers me watching the movie. Yeah. It's like, okay, there's a creep producing this. Does he know that it's, like, ironic? I mean, even if you take Harvey Weinstein out of the picture, there's still a creep producing the film. Yeah.

foot creep instead as close-ups on feet instead of close-ups on footers. He's clearly a nutter, yeah. It's pornographic for him. Yeah. All right, question time. Okay, let's head over to the questions, which we retrieve from the Sardonicarser Reddit, if you want to leave your own for us to answer. Just go to the suggestion thread that Ralph will pin eventually.

Avery James 2004 is a question, which I believe we may have answered on the first one, but it's been a long time since then, and it was, worth repeating, I think, which is tell us the story of the founding of Sardonicast. How did it happen? Three DMs. Yeah. We'll do a podcast. Sure.

It's just added a message. That's right. Two shores, yeah, from me and you. That's it. We had all collaborated with each other in some form before this point. We were, I think this was not too long after your not DreamWorks collection video. And I think before that was the. the childhood trauma project.

So we've all like collaborated in some form. We all enjoy each other's content. I've noticed a lot of crossover in terms of people posting your guys's content and crossover from fans in my subreddit, et cetera. I was like, you know what? I want to make a podcast. So I message you guys.

Also a crossover of taste. Because we all have very similar tastes. Cross over the case. Even though we disagree. Different backgrounds. Yeah. All over the world. That helps a lot.

Canada, US and UK. all different points of view. It's a cool idea. Yeah. I could at least trust that there would be some substantive conversations to be had,

even if we disagreed about some things. Even with me here. Yeah, I just wanted to ask that just for maybe new listeners who've come in and maybe have wondered about it as all. Don't want to FAP has one that I've wondered myself. Having to read these names

and they just continue on as if nothing's weird. It can be crazy sometimes, but this is a Lion King question, which I really want to hear, especially Adam's take on this. Oh, no. With the Lion King back in Spotlight again, are you guys, especially Adam, aware that the original Lion King is accused of being a rip-off of Kimber the White Lion? It features shockingly similar characters, themes, shots, etc. Matthew Broderick even admits he thought he was originally making a movie about Kimba. What do you guys think about plagiarism in movies and how much influence can a filmmaker take before it becomes plagiarism? I did not know that.

Oh, you didn't? I thought that that was common knowledge. No, at all. I know about it, but I've never researched it. I've never heard of that. I mean, again, I just saw Lion King this year, so the original. Oh, yeah, course. So I'm a little out of date with the Lion King.

There's a ton of YouTube videos on it. I've never really delved into it. I've seen some interviews from some of the original creators of Kimba talking about how they went to the theaters and just like beat after beat. They were like, oh, fuck, I think they ripped off her movie, just as it keeps going. But from what I understand about it, even though I haven't seen the original Kimba, there are still two very different movies, even if there are a lot of similarities. Is it plagiarism? There's a very high likelihood that you could consider it plagiarism for sure, especially considering what other works of art have already been considered plagiarism.

I think sometimes it's totally unfair. Like that recent ruling with Katie Perry's Dark Horse, I think that that was just fucking bullshit. it and that jury is a bunch of idiots. But it's definitely a different film. What I appreciate about the Lion King, I doubt I would find in Kimba. Like Jeremy Irons' voice acting, Hans Zimmer's score, you know, like it's not the same animation. So what I love about the Lion King, I don't think I'm going to find in Kimba, but I'll

still watch it someday and see, you know, how if it would change my opinion, I don't think it's going to make me love the Lion King any less. But I do think that based on what I've heard, it's very likely that it could be considered plagiarism in a court of law if it ever went to court, but nobody's going to take Disney to court

over that. Some of the most famous films of all time supposedly are plagiarized from other sources, a lot of the time Asia, whether it be the Matrix or Inception, the Hunger Games to a certain

extent, loads of movies like that. Star Wars with the Hidden Fortress. That's a big one. Avatar, Avatar. Loads of films like that are just like a combination of things from the past. And it's, I guess it's just a case by case of how egregious is it compared to like an original piece that is being crainted. It's hard to differentiate.

You know what they say is there's like seven basic plots. It's only seven stories and we just keep retelling the same ones. but as long as there's like a visual style or like some aspect to it that's unique some voice yeah yeah like i've seen movies that have like the same plots but they're told visually very different and i'm like oh that was very interesting actually i enjoyed that oblivion with a moon i'll bring up the comparison between like under the skin and species again as long as the movie has something that it wants to say and it's different i don't think it really matters if it's like the same plot beats or something like that just in the same way that I don't think it matters

if a song has the same drumbeat like there's a reason why you can't copyright yeah drum beats it's because there's only so many you can do right so in terms of structure for narratives I almost feel like it's the same way not to say that there's no new original stories being made ever but I I feel as though as long as the film is different as long as though it's going for something different and it offers a different experience, then you can say that you're inspired by something as long as you're not just trying to create the same experience as what you're inspired by or ripping off, I guess. Yeah, virtually every film is going to come from a point of reverence to classics that they grew

up on, like Chris Nolan with Interstellar, but clearly 2001 is a big inspiration to him. But it's a fresh new, it's his original voice. taking ideas and themes from these kind of movies. Inception is certainly not the same as paprika. Yeah, that's one of the things I like about Edgar Wright so much is how he's clearly, his inspiration is very obvious in his films. And a lot of the time they're literally in the films, whether it be on TV screens or reference by characters.

But he uses it as a sort of jump-off point to create a new story with references and in a similar way to what Tarantino likes to do. but, you know, with his own spin and energy. And like Edgar Wright and Tarantino do a similar thing, but they're so unique that it works. And it doesn't bother you that they're referencing stuff all the time unless it's, you know, deathproof, debatably. Yeah.

Ralph. Oh, well, you guys said, I guess we got nothing more to say. You guys basically said everything, yeah. All right. No, I have a meaty question from A.J. Ford, 682, who asks, Okay, since we're nearing the end of the decade, we've got to have this conversation. Favorite movie of the decade so far?

He's got a couple of like, of these. Like, what comes to your mind? Oh, fuck. For a favorite movie of the decade so far. Okay. If you guys want to think, I have a couple. I have a couple too. I also preface that Ralph can't say under the skin because that's too easy.

Oh, that's so funny. I would say, um, social network, drive and madman. I was going to question that one because... Those are the three. I think the end up in the skin. Does the decade go from 2010 to 2019? Yeah. And then stop?

I think that's, yeah. Right, that makes sense. I'm just opening up my lists here. Anomalisa would be my pick, probably. Anomelis is a great one. That's on my list. I would put Scott Pulgroom versus the world on there. Really?

Of best, yeah. Nocturnal animals is also a pick of mine. It's on mine, too. I'd say World's End. also and good time I love it yeah Adam you got any of

I'm familiarizing myself with the what are some of the tens that I've created so phantom thread the lighthouse is black swan on yours black swan

I think might have been a 10 I'm just going to confirm that I love black swan for sure I think it was your favorite movie that year yeah I think it was 2010 yeah that's why I bring it out going through

just be patient with me yeah birdman for sure. Son of Saul wasn't a 10 for me. It was a 9, but I really enjoyed that for sure. Yeah. Anomalisa. Yeah. The Raid 1 and 2. That's on my list. That's a good one, yeah. One that I feel like is at least worth mentioning, even if it's not necessarily my favorite of the decade, but it might be is her 2013. Her is phenomenal. I think that that's an amazing movie. Let's see what else we got. We got Amor. We got the Hunt. We got... Basically everything The Coen Brothers have released. Yeah, shame.

Yeah, yeah. Inside Dwayne Davis, yeah. Yeah, if I were to pick like a favorite of the decade, I would have to say like either her or I might feel that way about the lighthouse when I see it a second time.

Wow, nice. Can't wait to see that. Yeah, are you fucking hype? I'm very excited about that, so. Playing a Tiff, if you guys want to come to Toronto, It's playing at TIF in like September People are saying like this year's a bad year for movies Not a lot of good movies coming out

But there's a lot yeah exactly That's how I always feel about those people People say that in the first half of the year every year Because most of the good movies come out like September The good shit comes out the second half yeah Also this summer was pretty bad for like a mainstream summer blockbusters So I do understand that Pretty bad for the most part now

Yeah they always have been you know what I mean But they're not even like entertaining anymore they're way more cynical. The shark jumped like years ago now, so now we're just seeing just absurd shit. Yeah, basically. That's what I,

I marked that in history as the point where everyone just fucking gave up. The point, yeah. But in the question, there are a couple more, like inverse things. Like, what's the worst of the decade so far?

What's the worst film? Oh. The haunting of Sharon Tate? Even though I just saw that, but that's easily up there. Really? Yeah. Fucking really distasteful, horribly made, terrible acting.

Yeah. I have a couple. R-I-P-D. You guys seen that? Yeah. It's like a Ryan Reynolds fucking... It's so fucking bad. And it's such a title sound really funny.

Yeah. Rest in peace to vision, I think. It's like men in black, except with like ghosts, right? It's like a men-in-black rip-off with like the most abrasive humor, awful-up visual effects. Ryan Reynolds being as absolute worse. I also noted. down like a lot of the things Ryan Reynolds are in is like a pet peeve um of mine like he's been in some terrible comedies and shit over the years and finally um suicide squad i think it's like the

pinnacle of factory produced just garbage like Hollywood production that's just chasing a trend where it's just copying you know the marvel basically with the guys of the galaxy and that that whole tone it's just such a failure on every degree like i really can't point at anything of quality in that movie. I would put Justice League on there, but I think a big one, like number one, is sucker punch.

I think sucker punch is fucking horrendous and insulting, and the guy's totally up his own ass. He thought he was making inception, but it was like fucking terrible. I hate when people are trying to fend that movie and say it's like this

feminist masterclass, and it's like, you realize you made this, right? Or they'd like Whatever they're like scantily clad Running around kicking robots that's empowering It's like give me a fucking break It's so teenage boy Feet Dream

Not a good idea to anyone but in Is it that 2012 Food Fight That's probably That might be worse sucker punch if we're speaking like Honestly more objectively I guess notable releases In this decade

One of them being Berdemic That's a pretty notable pretty bad movie that doesn't understand what movies are, I guess. Megan is missing. That was made this decade. If we're going to talk least favorite, not necessarily like the worst production value. What pisses you off?

The one that pisses me off the most probably be Spike Lee's old boy for being serious. Good choice, yeah. Yeah, it's, uh, have you guys both seen my review of it? Yeah. It's very good. Oh, thank you. It's very in-depth. I don't know many movies that I could rant about for like almost two hours in an edited video like that where all the fat is cut out.

I don't even like I don't even leave space between my words and it still goes on for two hours. It's so fucked that film that I don't even know how you even chose like a place to begin. Yeah. That's why you just went through basically the entire movie being like this is how it worked in the original and this is why it doesn't in the new one. Yeah, I just had to go chronologically because there's literally the entire film is just broken and just doesn't understand what the point of what it's trying to reinterpret is. It's like a husk. It's like a zombie. It has no purpose.

I have a funny feeling I'm going to have similar feelings about the new Lion King, but we'll see. Yeah. That might take the number one spot. It might. But another one that comes to my mind is the last airbender from 2010, the M-night Shyamalan. Yeah. But that was a great movie. What are you talking about?

Oh, yeah. 100%. That was the best movie. Some of the best performances I've ever seen are in that film. It was funny. It was hilarious. But it wasn't trying to, yeah, it wasn't trying to be funny. It was fucking ruining a beautiful show.

It's the vacuous ones that actually piss me off because, like, food fight is so stupid. Like, you can't take anything to it. And the same with Bird Demic, like, it's such a joke that it's kind of funny. It barely counts as a film. Whereas these are like, they have money behind them, and they make these giant monstrosities. Yeah. You take an excellent animated show for kids called The Last Airbender, and you fucking turn it into this mockery. It's, you know, it makes people angry.

It's pathetic. After Earth is pretty good. It is. Like, you have $200 million to make a movie. You can't fucking make something good with this amazing source material. Yeah. you're an idiot like yeah

whatever got him got him well continuing on most underrated which I think is a good one what isn't the most underrated for me I think it's under the Silver Lake I think people would

have misinterpreted that film on like a more general sense that's definitely up there critically didn't do very well yeah it is actually rated quite low yeah I really think people should give it a chance because it's a very challenging film which is what makes a great.

You have to know we're getting into. Mm-hmm. I still want people to go on that hike in the middle of the forest in California and see if they can find something behind the rock. I'm in California. I'm like four hours away. You gotta go. But I don't think there's anything there. I don't know.

The Reddit was talking about it. They were like going on Google Maps and like trying to find the like if there's any pictures of it. Yeah. Yeah. The detail of that movie is actually flooring to me. Yeah. How many layers there are to just interpret and read into it. It's turned all these people into the main character.

Yeah. So, perfect. So much of the theme of the movie is that. Yeah. So it's, it was important that he pays that much attention to every little detail and that all the symbols mean something.

There is a cryptographer on the film, I believe. Really? Who like just went through the whole thing and fucking wrote down symbols and shit. And you feel that and, you know, even if you don't notice it, your brain does. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. As Mr. Plinkett says. Yeah. anybody listening definitely check out the under the Silver Lake subreddit some of the top posts there there's a lot of crazy shit well first watched the movie obviously it's on blue right now finally but yeah 824 you done goofed you sabotaged you had a classic yeah cult classic for sure this movie's not gonna go away it will become yeah it will become over time a cult classic definitely under the silver lake for

underrated movies, I guess. Underrated the Silver League. Yeah. Yeah. That's comedic. Yep. That's comedic. Any other underrated, or should move on to the next one?

That's a good pick, I reckon. I'd say raid one and two, underrated. Sorry? Hmm. Raid 1 and 2 for underrated. But that is a tension. Hmm. The raid 1 and 2.

Yeah, over time that one's getting more and more. They're critically where received. as well, though, and, you know. I don't know if I'd call those films underrated. I think they did pretty well. Yeah. Yeah, they did do pretty well. That's what I'm saying, like, eh, with a grain of salt.

On a similar note, what's the most overrated of the last 10 years? Hoof. Uh, Jesus. Let me think about this for a second. I mean, first thing that comes to my mind is Black Panther. I don't think that's my answer, but that's the first thing that comes to my mind. See, mine was also a Marvel movie. best picture like

my was Avengers Endgame. That's my pick for overrated because it's been what came out on digital recently or whatever and it's all over movie circle jerk and stuff that it's one of the highest rated films of all time now and it's fun or whatever but

dude like it isn't one of the best films ever made. Yeah, a lot of the Marvel movies are overrated. I think you could put any Marvel movie to answer that question. But I think that one was one in reached just critical cool mass, you know?

Yeah, I get that. Hmm. Bird box? I don't know. Bird box, yeah. Yeah, the film sucks. Yeah. That's one of those ones where it's like, really, everybody watched this?

Okay. I'm just scrolling through my reviews here, seeing if I can find one that pissed a lot of people off. I know Mission Impossible Fallout. Spotlight? Spotlight. That's my answer. Greenbook as well. Greenbook's pretty overrated, yeah.

Green Book and Spotlight, I think, are good answers. Yeah. Those are probably... Jurassic World. That did well... That did well financially, but critically, I don't think it did well. I think critically Jurassic World did pretty... Critically, it did okay.

Let's look. Yeah, it wasn't like 97% like Black Panther. Where I was like, what? For this? Oh, yeah. Critically, it only got 59 metascore. Okay. Most surprising. He thinks the most surprising movie the last 10 years.

Probably Scott Pogrom. Really? My pick is the lobster. I think that film's really creative and strange and unique. And for me, that was a great surprise. It really jelled with me. Had you heard of the director before that point? I think that was the movie that made me go back into his log.

Oh, yeah? I went back and watched Dogtooth and, yeah, enjoyed that as well. But it wasn't until the lobster was like, this guy is really on something. it. Surprising, I would probably top pick would be the Lego movie, was not expecting that to be great.

That's a good pick, yeah. Yeah. I was expecting that to be shit. Yeah. Yeah. Most movies that have movie in the title are shit, so. Yeah. Most movies made off of children's toys.

Exactly. Just recognizable brand the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't sold on the trailer either. It was just very creative people making the film. Yeah.

And they took what could have been like a cynical cash grab and gave something more to it. If you can make the fucking Lego movie good, then I'm convinced you can do anything good. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great answer, actually. Yeah. Well, there's one more, which is the most disappointing. Probably Dark Night Rises.

Really? Yeah. That was this decade, right? Yeah. Yeah, 2012 or so, right? And I still like the movie, but it's no Dark Night. I guess mine would be the whole just what's happened to Star Wars

Yeah Oh yeah Over the years That's quite a big Blunder Ultimately That was like a slow Painful Death

It was like a life Yeah It was started by JJ Abrams It was just a slow He does best And fucked it Really Uh huh

Hey look all these mystery boxes Dude But then he just leaves Okay Just no plan The fact they had no plan It's so astonishing to me JJ? Where's it going? I don't know.

Yeah. That to me is such a blunder for the biggest franchise of all time. It is disappointing. The longer it goes on. They knew they were going to make more. Why didn't they have a plan? Yeah. You could have wrote it on a napkin. Yeah. Whatever.

Netflix Death Note was pretty disappointing. I'm not sure my expectations were like the highest, but I was still disappointed. Suicide Squad. I was expecting to be like, at least entertained that was pretty disappointing uh usually i don't have like super high hyped up expectations for things that turn out to be terrible i would say that my expectations are pretty reasonable for at least my own taste getting hyped for shit i think hype is bad that's the answer yeah it is we're only going to be disappointed you can never be surprised if you're expecting

everything to be the best thing you've ever seen well for me the dark night rises was that experience Or I was a teenager. I went in and I'm like, okay, that was a good movie. It wasn't as good as I was expecting. Maybe I need to learn to just watch a film and enjoy it and not pay attention to trailers or all this other bullshit that has nothing to do with it. Or you can watch those things too. It's nothing wrong with watching the trailer.

Detective Pikachu was pretty disappointing. But were you expecting something from that? That looked bad from the beginning there. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have high expectations for a lot of things. High life was a little disappointing. I guess.

I can only talk about like some indie movies that I thought might have been cool. Guava Island was a little disappointing. Like I thought Hobbs and Shaw was disappointing. Velvet Buzzsaw was pretty disappointing, honestly. I think that my expectation versus reality was on that one was like pretty bad. You were disappointed by Hobs and Shore, Ralph. Yeah, I was. That's what I kind of was as well.

I was expecting it to be. I literally fell asleep 45 minutes in I was so bored I nearly fell asleep as well there was just no there was no plot or momentum like the idea of having action

nonstop sounds fun but there was a point they just got so dull they thought this like improv insult thing was like so genius that it could carry the whole movie so they just have Jason Statham insulting the rock and then the rock insulting Jason Statham for fucking like two hours 20 minutes

that's the only mode they were in I heard that they have uh... required and their contracts for how much the other person is allowed to beat them up so that it doesn't hurt their overall like casting an image in future projects. It has to be even. Yeah. They have to both receive an equal amount of like punishment and give it out. Yeah.

So that neither of them can be considered better. Yeah. Well, like, Dwayne Johnson doesn't like Van Diesel so they don't work with each other. That's kind of why they gave him his own franchise. It's all just a dick measuring contest, isn't it? Yeah. Outside of the movies. And it makes the movies just the same thing.

And it's obvious to anyone who's like, really. reading into it a bit. It's like, how dumb am I to be sitting here watching these guys jerk themselves off? How strong they are. It's like, fuck you. That's what's pissed me off about the lot for so long now. He's a terrible leading man. Terrible actor.

He never... I disagree with you. I think he's a good leading man in terms. He has a personality, but he's a terrible actor. He cannot convey emotions at all. He sells movies. Every movie is carried by him, basically. No, but they're all bad.

terrible movies yeah they're all terrible but he just comes in and does his personality he's like hey what's up I'm the rock he sells movies and then the one time that something underperforms he goes on Twitter going like don't listen to critics for like Baywatch he has a meltdown which is one of the worst

comedies of the last 10 years that film is insulting as well and he's the best thing about it again yeah he'll be the new Will Smith at some point he doesn't understand not having success and then eventually people will stop seeing things because he's in it and then he'll cast his kid in an emnight shaman movie and that'll be the end of him he's he's just the prime example of the this is a guy that like works well and has a

work ethic so in every movie he's in we're going to just have characters say that they like him so then the audience just likes him because everyone is told to like him he's told to like him he played a nice man who's also really buff he has a daughter oh and a brother from out of nowhere who comes in all of a sudden they pull that whole thing with hobbs and shaw too i swear he's like a robot because he's supposed to have a romantic interest in Hobbs and Shore and there's like no chemistry at all she's like smiling at him and he has like this dopey just straight face like he doesn't know how to flirt it's probably like in his contract that you can't do more than a peck or something yeah you know just the nibble he was even in like pain and gain he was

good at pain pain and gain that's probably the only good performance he was playing like a parody of himself though that was like the iron he was like a coaked up fucking guy who lifted weights all the time that's probably what he really is sick of these things he's just sick of these like characters that have no flaws like in Hogs and Shore the main characters that they're so boring because they can overcome any obstacle because they're fucking super heroes

well they're part of an ensemble right so they're not really all that fleshed out from these other movies and you just throw them in this movie and they have no flaws like you said well yeah but they're all shit they're all poorly written terrible movies that are about car chases

so they're not supposed to be cut just sharing a corona at a barbecue isn't character development yeah you're right that's the way they do it in that franchise. Exchanging insults. And then suddenly, because that's where in the movie they're supposed to be friends, they're just friends then.

Yeah, all of a sudden. There was like no arc. They were just all of a sudden friends when it was convenient. It was so fucking lame. Have either of you seen Southland Tales? I've heard of it. Is that that? It's like infamous.

It's from the director of Donnie Darko. It was the film he made after, the rocks in it. Apparently, like, I don't know. When it came out, people were, the impression I got, was that half of the people fucking hated it and half of the people thought it was genius or something. And in Mark Kermode's negative review of Under the Silver Lake, he actually referenced South Wind Tales as an example of like

a director making something and then, you know, falling flat on his face after getting some notoriety or something. So I don't know. I haven't seen it. I was just curious because the rocks in it. Yeah. I would want to see it one day. It's interesting for being, like you said,

kind of polarizing. Yeah, divisive. anything else about Hobbs and Shaw no it was a piece of crap don't see it was boring what you gave it out of ten I gave it one and a half yeah I guess

I don't like translating it like that but I guess yeah it's up one out of five two out of ten okay sure that's funny do we want to do one final question or no don't mind we can sneak one more in there yeah let's sneak a funny one in some from some Randy

are there are there movies that you would judge people for liking I feel like there are even though we don't say like we try not to have that in us you know to judge people in movies they like but when someone's like yeah I love Bride Wars we should totally watch Bride Wars I stand back a second it from a psychological perspective we're all technically judging people whether we try to or not right yeah so it's impossible not to people. So it really depends on how you define the word judge. Because I'm not going to be like

oh, I'm never going to respect you as a person because you liked the new Lion King. One of my friends does. Right, exactly. I'm just like, I might translate that into, oh, okay, so if this same person says a movie is great, I might not take their word for it in terms of what my experience might

be. I might be like, okay, well, you think it's great. I might not think it's great based on their other things that they think are great. So in that way, yeah. In other ways, every flight I'm on, I'd silently judge people based on what movies they watch. There were so many voices. There are some films there.

Yeah, there's some that it's so insulting that I don't know if I could hold back, like, something like inappropriate comedy. If someone came out to me and was like, that film's a fucking masterclass. I watch it every day. This is the best comedy ever made. I would be, I would think in the back of my mind, what went wrong? Yeah. Who hurt you?

Yeah, the same with movie 43 as well. Anything wrong on it. That's a good one. Like you said, Adam, at the very least, I would double take and go, okay, maybe I won't watch, like, Solaris with this person. If they say a movie like that, you know. But that's not bad. That's just like, okay, I know what to watch with this person.

Yeah, exactly. But there's still films you can enjoy with them. Like, I can show them fucking Chowin's soccer and they'd probably really enjoy it. Yeah. There's some friends of mine where it's like I can't show them movies that I really love because every time they've just like not responded well to it sort of thing. Because it's sick shit.

It's like martyrs. Like martyrs. Not every movie I love to say. You don't judge people. No, not every movie. You don't judge them as people. You just kind of evaluate, okay, this thing that I like,

I'm clearly interested in a different way to this other people, which means the crossover is going to be more slim, as you're saying. Okay. I think that's that. Answer the question. Yeah, excellent.

Good questions. Yeah, there's some good ones. Pretty good. I believe there's a recommendation. I believe. Who is it? I think it's me. Ooh.

Ooh. I didn't think too hard. There's tons of things that I could be recommending. I didn't think too hard about this one. I kind of like while we were recording the podcast that was going through IMDB. There are a couple things that I could be recommending. I think the one that I want to see the most out of the ones that are just

fresh in my memory of things that we could talk about would be Southland Tales so let's fucking do it I've never seen it I literally forgot that movie existed until we were talking about The Rock so let's do it Southland Tales, Richard Kelly 2006

supposedly this film which you know he broke out onto the scene with Donnie Darko a lot of people really loved him and then he made Southland Tales and not everybody loved it and it's considered very notorious in terms of how polarizing and divisive it is

and that's pretty much all I know about it other than the rocks in it. So who knows, it might suck, it might be the worst piece of shit ever. Is it part of the Fast and Furious universe? I don't know. It's two and a half hours long as I'm seeing here. Fast and Furious presents Southland Tales.

All right. That's a nice... Can't wait. Two and a half hours. Interesting point. I don't know if there's like multiple cuts. I don't know how easy it is to find, but whatever. Fucking doing it.

All right. If you don't want to be spoiled for Southland Tales with Dwayne Johnson. The rock. Yeah, they're rock. I'm the B says Dwayne Johnson. If you don't want to be spoiled for that movie, check it out before the next episode. In two weeks from now, it will air publicly. If you want to support the show or listen to the show.

these episodes early when they're edited, go to sardonicast.com. Sign up for premium. It's $2 a month. Same thing with patreon.com slash sardonicast. Also, we have merch. All right. I guess I'll finally get to see this movie. I don't know when else I would have watched it. Yeah. I don't know how there's few of these. Yeah. I want to be recommended gradually, just like these infamous films. Yeah. Yeah. It was not on my watch list, so I probably would have never seen it. I'd never had the guts to watch it. I've always been curious since it came out. Yeah, that's the thing. And I've just never

gotten around to it. So, we'll see what the hell happens. Yeah. All right. Thank you all for listening. Bye. Bye. Bye.

That's so long, folks. See you later. Peace. Take care. River Der Chi. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.