Sardonicast - Sardonicast #46: The Lighthouse, Thirst (feat. David F. Sandberg)

Episode Date: November 4, 2019

Thanks to our special guest David F. Sandberg for joining us this episode. David’s Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/user/ponysmasher David’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/ponysmasher David’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ponysmasher/ Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/9vwgY2C Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthe... Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovi... Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkind... Fanart: https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/... (Thumbnail) https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/... https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/... Timecodes: 00:00 - Intro 1:51 - Questions for David F. Sandberg 29:30 - The Lighthouse 35:25 - The Lighthouse (SPOILERS) 51:05 - Thirst (SPOILERS) 1:13:43 - Q&A (Also with David F. Sandberg) Alex's Recommendation is Naked Lunch (1991).

Three, two, one. Welcome to the kill count where we tally up the victims in all our favorite horror movies. That was a request from the subreddit. It's a, I forget the channel name already. It's not one that I usually watch. Oh, wait, here it is. Dead meat. Dead meat.

All right. It was a request. We're SardanaCast. I'm Adam from your movie sucks. I'm Ralph from YouTube.com slash Ralph the Movie Maker. And I'm Alex from my H. and we are joined by a very special guest. Do you want to introduce yourself, David?

I'm David F. Sandberg, also known as Pony Smasher online. What's with that name? Yeah. Wow. I started a YouTube account when it was pretty new, so I was not sure like, oh, what is this? What am I going to do with it? Is this going to become a thing?

So I just, I didn't want to use my real name or anything, so I was just like a pony smasher. You don't have anything against ponies. And, yeah. And then the, the, you know, the, YouTube channel actually took off and suddenly I was a pony smasher forever. Yeah, and your Twitter.

So, yeah. Yeah, it's funny now when it's like you get a variety article or something on Twitter and it's like, oh, at pony smasher. Oh, man. Super professional. You know my Twitter handle, right? Like, it's so much.

Yeah, exactly. It's the best part is when like professional, legitimate businesses contact me or like industry people like, Oh, hey, too gay to live. So, yeah, we mentioned, I guess we just said who you are, but we didn't exactly say what you're most well known for is not necessarily your pony smasher online presence,

but your film career. Yeah. You've directed Lights Out, Annabelle Creation, and Shazam. Yep, all true. So Lights Out was originally a short that you posted on YouTube. Yeah. What was the whole process like between it becoming a big thing on YouTube versus creating an actual feature out of it? It was interesting because, yeah, my wife and I made this little short for an online horror competition.

And a couple of months after we'd uploaded it, it went viral. And all of a sudden I was getting all these emails from people in Hollywood who wanted to talk to me, you know, agents, managers, producers, studios. It was almost a year-long process of, talking to people and then signing with a management company and then picking agents and all that stuff. It sort of was becoming more and more real during this time and a script was being written, a deal was being made. But, you know, my wife, Lotha and I, we didn't really know if this was a real thing if it was actually going to become something. So we kept making shorts on YouTube and we had plans for making a no-budget feature just the two of us

because we just didn't dare trust any of all this, you know, like it could all just be bullshit. Exactly. Yeah, but then a year after, we actually got the call. I mean, first, it was like nine months after they actually paid us to come to L.A. to meet with everyone, to meet with like James Wan was going to be a producer on and meet the studio and everything. So then it was like, okay, this is probably real. And then a couple of months after that, we got the call like, yeah, movies happening. You have to get on a plane and get over here.

So we just sort of locked our apartment, got on a plane, and yeah, we've kind of been here most of the time since. The rest is history. Yeah. That's awesome. Yes, pretty much. No, I mean, it's every filmmaker's dream. And it was pretty scary as well because I'd never made a movie before. Yeah.

I mean, hands-on experience, really. And it seems as though with each feature you've directed, the user and critical scores have been higher each time. Each one is made, well, not necessarily made proportionate to the budget, but... They've been quite successful, yeah. I've been lucky in that. That's awesome. Yeah. It is.

Yeah, just waiting for that total bomb. That will break me. Well, I mean, not name and names, but there's quite a few people in the industry that have made some bombs that still have healthy careers, right? Yeah, and it feels kind of, like I wouldn't say safe now, but it feels like I wouldn't say safe now, but it feels like I could probably afford a bomb or something because I can always do like a tiny horror movie. I'm sure someone would put up the money to do like another horror movie, you know.

Jason. So, yeah, it feels like I probably have a couple of chances before it's all over unless I just spectacularly fail or fuck up, you know. Yeah, don't be, don't stress yourself out. I mean, you've got a really great thing going. Yeah. No, but yeah, it was funny because when I was making the, you know, Annabel creation, And, you know, I was talking to one of the studio women there.

And, yeah, saying like, yeah, I kind of hope that this is going to become a career. And she was like, well, you were there already. Yeah. Your second movie is like, oh, yeah, but I don't want to take anything for granted, you know. Man, I bet it's really humbling for people at home to know that even industry professionals get a lot of, like, self-doubt and questioning in their own situation. But like a lot of imposter syndrome, like you just feel like, oh, any day now, they'll realize that it's all bullshit, you know. Did you have any history and did you go to film school? Have you always been dabbling and making your own shorts?

Or was it, what was the lights out moment? Yeah, always made little short films since I was a kid, you know, like on VHS, in early 90s, late 80s even. Eventually, I started doing animation because it was something I could do. do all by myself because once you got up in your 20s it was sort of harder to get friends together to make movies because people had jobs and lives. So I started doing animation and in 2006 I made this little short film and uploaded to YouTube which was just like a year old or something at the time I think and it went viral in Scandinavia because it wasn't Swedish so like it didn't go outside there but that actually led to getting some attention there like I got to be on TV like oh what's it like

having a viral short and that led to some some work doing a little animated like commercials and things like that so i was freelancing doing that for a few years until i felt that i mean this isn't really what i want to do like what i want to do is live action movies and genre movies and i kind of realized i had nothing to show for myself like yeah i want to do horror here's animated humor i've made So I needed something to show that, yeah, this is what I want to do and this is what I can do, which is why Lothan and I started making little horror shorts. Yeah, proof of concept means everything in terms of getting funding. And now, I mean, especially now, like this bridge between YouTube and like Hollywood entertainment,

you know, the gap is getting shorter and shorter. I mean, now the celebrities are going to YouTube instead. Well, it's mad. Their old channels. And yeah, and all those kinds. guys. It's kind of like a symbiotic relationship at this point. Yeah. That's what I saw living in Sweden. You know, I saw Fetty Alvarez, you know, he made a short called Panic Attack and got to do the Evil Dead remake or, oh yeah, or Andy Muskeetti who did the short film Mama and then did the feature

film mama. So it's like, yeah, I saw that happening. It was like, oh, I wonder what that's like. And then I got to experience it myself. A lot of YouTubers becoming filmmakers. There's the guy, mystery guitar man he made a film recently yeah joe penna yeah joe panna that was a really professional movie yeah it was a can yeah with muds mickleson in it what movie was that uh arctic arctic yeah yeah that was made by a guy who uh you know has had like a pretty big youtube channel for a long time and uh his youtube content isn't even mostly just like oh yeah hey i made a short film upload it there it was actual like more youtubeer style content so it was really interesting to see to see him.

And when he sold that movie, he couldn't really use his YouTube channel to sell it. He had to go off his, like, talent as a filmmaker. And he still made it. So, it's great. Yeah. You know, a lot of us aspire to be in that position, like our audience and me, you know. Yeah, Ralph's in film school right now. He's like, yeah.

Well, I just graduated, actually. Oh, yeah. Sorry. I'm like, like, no problem. But it's like, we just want to like, we're making YouTube videos now, like, crummy with no money. and we just hope to be in that position one day. So it's cool to, like, talk to someone who's in that. It's directing big budget superhero films like Shazam.

I was going to ask if you, because yeah, our audience is filled with a bunch of film students and, you know, young people, 20-something-year-olds. And I'm wondering if you have any advice for young aspiring filmmakers now that you've kind of had somewhat of a success story. I mean, what I keep saying is just to keep creating things. Because, I mean, not only will you get better and better at it, but you also don't know what people will respond to. Like I talked to a guy here in town who, like, he made this big web series.

Like, kickstarted it, making several episodes, and it looked like really professional and everything. And he was like, oh, this is going to be the thing, right? Nothing came of it. And then he and some friends did like a little action. video just for fun like a first person perspective kind of action video put that on YouTube and that's what got him all this attention from Hollywood and got them into meetings and things like that so it's like you can't really plan for it you just have to keep creating things that you like until something clicks with people or like the right people see it so because

I mean that was the thing with lights out as well like we didn't have any thought of a feature for that that was just a short which actually helped as well because when you get to Hollywood things are, you know, you're selling the rights to it, so you're not going to own it anymore. And like, it's never going to turn out exactly the way you want it to. So I think it lights out had been our baby, like, oh, for years we wanted to make this feature and it's going to be this, I think that would have been very disappointing because now it was just like, yeah, sure, take it. We don't want that.

Just get me, you know, let me direct a movie. Yeah, whatever. I'll take it, you know. So I think that kind of helped, actually. I think that's some pretty solid advice because I think it's, I think it's. important for people to be like realistic about their expectations and as you said you you kind of created your YouTube channel not even understanding like if that's what you were going to be doing really like you could have been you could have been a YouTube content creator instead

of a professional film director right yeah now I'm kind of both because I'm still putting stuff up on my YouTube channel I appreciate that you're doing that too yeah that's what I've always wanted to see. Like I've always loved behind the scenes content and it's been so hard to find like because a lot of the times it's just sort of promotional like yeah, everything was great on set and he's such a great actor in the end, go see the movie. You know, like I've always wanted to know like, well, what's it like? And that's why even with the shorts, I was making these behind the scenes videos of how we made it and how we solved problems and things like that because that's what I want to see. So yeah, I'm just trying to give people what I want to see because not many.

others are doing it. Yeah, I think it's great to have like that sort of perspective too. You're someone who's kind of like thrust into it and figuring it out and you know, you said a lot of really interesting things about like test screenings that I appreciated. And just like the different variables and how, you know, it's not necessarily make or break. I think that that's an important thing for people to understand. So you, uh, you watch a few different channels on YouTube. You've been around on YouTube for for a while. I think there's some people in the audience, and I think Ralph and Alex were curious about this too.

We follow each other on Twitter. That's how we got this set up, because you watch my content, and I know you watch Red Letter Media. Yeah. Are there any other YouTube channels that you check out? Any other names to throw out there? Yeah, I mean, I'm still sad that every frame of painting

isn't doing videos anymore because those guys were awesome. Yeah, they do them for Criterion now. Yeah, but where do it? even you got to buy the criterion to watch their concept yeah I love that sometimes watch Lindsay Ellis

yeah red leather media as mentioned occasionally recently I've watched a guy called Filmento that's the only one I haven't heard of yeah it was just sort of a I saw like a video it just popped up in my feet about sort of talking about a failure of a movie or something and then I was like ooh I wonder if he's talked about Shazam

and what he said and he said And there was a video on Shand Sam. It was like, oh, and he actually liked it. So it's like, okay, I'm going to watch some more of this guy. Have you seen any negative reviews of your films on YouTube? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're everywhere.

There's always negative reviews. But I can't think of a specific one right now. But there's always some negativity, of course. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. That's YouTube. There's a lot of negativity on YouTube.

I mean, it's the Internet. It's, you know. Yeah. It's just in general. It's what you expect. It's part of the culture. It's kind of charming. The annoying thing is though, you know, a lot of people are, they have this sort of philosophy

and it's like, oh, you got to tell the filmmakers what sucked about it so they can improve. And it's like, I am very well aware of what sucks in my movies. It's like, it haunts me every day. So it's like, so to then read about it, like, I don't really care when people say, oh, that movie sucked because it's like, well, that's just taste. But it's like when they point out specific things that didn't work that I know didn't work It's like god damn it like those are the ones that hurt because it's true, you know Well, I mean like the best way to you know ensure that you're still

Creating great things is to be self-critical too like as long as you're not like overly self-critical to the point where it's like debilitating I guess but yeah clearly you're You're somewhat of an introspective person from what I gather at the this point. Yeah, I mean, you, yeah, you always want to improve and like, you have to, and movies just, they never turn out the way you expect them to. And sometimes that could actually be parts of it can actually be better than you expected it to, but that's more rare. When it comes to creating art, like, unless you have infinite resources in an infinite amount of time, you know, and every actor is able to work with you forever. It's like, there's some things that you probably just have to let go, like, even if you recognize that there's a flaw in. some part or something that you think could have been done better there's you know sometimes you just have to accept those things and oh yeah but i'm pretty good at you know once the movies out there i'm like okay that's in the past now i'm moving on like i'm gonna make better things in the future like i would never want to go back and like do a special edition or something oh yeah yeah like no george lucas re-baster of the movie yeah no it's just a own special edition

yeah it's yeah i mean some people get obsessed with that i there's a, I don't want to mention names, but when I was mixing the sound for Shazam, they were telling me about this famous director who made a classic movie like 25 years ago or something. And apparently he's still working on it. Like he's still sort of recutting it and still fixing the sound and things. It's like, well, why? I guess he's going to, maybe he'll release a new version.

So, I mean, that's kind of the Apocalypse Now story, I guess. Yeah, exactly. He's still working on that movie. Played Runner. Yeah, a few of them. I've never liked there being different versions of movies because it's like, yeah, Blader on which version am I going to watch because there's things I like about this but not about that.

Yeah. I want there to be just a definitive version. Yeah, I hear you for sure. There's some instances of films where like the actual vision for what the director wanted the movie to be is just wildly different than what the theatrical cut wound up being. So it's like it's kind of understandable if like if they get the opportunity to finally show what they wanted the film to be.

I don't see much of a disagreement with that. But yeah, having like having way too many different versions and, you know, just not being able to let something go that is a bit strange. Yeah, because they actually asked me on Shazam, it's like, do you want to do an extended version for home video as well? So there's like, you know, so people can buy two versions. But I was like, no, I just wanted there to be one. And a lot of times those extended versions, it feels like,

well, they just put extra stuff in there. Now it's just longer. Yeah. I mean, that can be the selling point sometimes. The unrated cut. Shazam, unrated. They all die. They all rated cut.

Ralph and Alex, did you guys want to cut in with some questions here? I've kind of been asking the majority of them. There's a big question mark in my head right now that I'm very interested in. That being the jump from, there's a consistency, between Lights Out and Annabel's horror and then suddenly Shazam is in the mix which totally completely different. It's sort of an action comedy with the odd bit of horror thrown in there. I'm wondering how did you get that gig based on your previous work? A new line called me up and said, hey, we have this project called Shazam. Would you be interested

in directing that? This was right after or when we were actually finishing up Annabuck creation and I was like, absolutely. I'm not sure why they thought of me. But I think, I mean, part of it is that at least at new line, they're very much like, if they like you, they want to work more with you. And like, you know, like if you're not an asshole, it's just difficult all the time. They're like, yeah, let's find something else to do together because this was a pleasant experience, you know. So it pays off to not be an asshole, I guess. Or if you're an asshole, you have to be really talented. Yeah.

No, so it's like, yeah, they call me up. And I was like, you know, I'm not going to ask them why they want. me I'm just going to go like yeah let's do it you know of course you're going to do it yeah but were there any unexpected challenges of changing genres um like that because obviously is it's a very different like style yeah not so much it was just more technical things like I'd never worked with the effects on that level and stunts and action and things like that because in some ways it was going back to humor for me because like people in Sweden who may know me for my humorous shorts.

You know, I was actually told by people like, hey, you should do like a comedy or something. So in some ways it was actually going back a little bit to my roots. So, yeah, the challenges were all in just the scale of the movie and all these new things, like visual effects that are, I hate shooting visual effects. Like, it's cool, but it's just, it's really boring to shoot. And it's such a long time in post.

of just watching the same things over and over again. It's like, all right, we have several hours of VFX reviews, and it's like, yeah, it's not a great experience. And then, you know, you run out of time and there are BFX shots that no more time to work on. We have to put them in the movie. And then people online are like, oh, the VFX sucks. And it's like, yeah, I know. Like, I didn't go, that's perfect.

No more work, you know, pencils down. But you've got to have VFX if you want to do. do those big movies. I'm sure that must have been pretty intimidating from like a jumping off point. Yeah, because I mean, I have, I'm interested in visual effects myself and then for the previous two movies I actually did a few shots myself where it was like, well, I just do it myself. I'll get what I want and it'll be great.

But, you know, on a movie like that, it's just on such a scale and such a complexity that's just like, well, I'm going to have to trust you guys. Like, you tell me what you need to, like, I'll tell you what I want the result to be, and you tell me what I need to shoot, you know, what elements I need and what we need to do to get that. And you go off and do it. And then it was working with second unit as well, which was just weird. Like, I've never had, you know, someone else come in and shoot parts of your movie. And a lot of it was fun parts.

So I was like, you know, I had it scheduled for a big part of the shoot. that during the day we shot main unit and then during the night they shot second unit so i could go to that too and be like you know get very little sleep but at least i was there and could go like no that's wrong or change this or it's not very healthy but yeah i didn't want to just leave over big chunks of the movie to to someone else was it also fairly um intimidating in terms of uh responsibilities jumping from essentially what what is your own original IP onto like Annabel Creation, which is now a part of like a larger franchise. That didn't feel so intimidating.

I mean, Annabelle Creation has been the best filmmaking experience I've had so far. Because, you know, lights out, everything was new. Everything was scary. And it's like, if I fuck this, like, this is my one shot at Hollywood. If I fuck this up, it's gone, you know. So it's like constant anxiety. Okay. Annabot Creation was like, you know, we had enough money and enough time to do the things we wanted to.

And it felt like, okay, now I know how we know how we're. movies are made and it was just such a pleasant experience. Awesome. And then doing Shazam was kind of back to that. Everything is new and everything is crazy and it's like, oh, I've never done this before. So it wasn't always as fun. But I did sort of have this thinking of like, well, if I fuck this up, this is a completely different genre, something else.

Then it's just like, oh, I guess I can't do superhero movies, but I can still do horror movies. you know I'll get more chances at that it felt like I had something to fall back on but it was still sort of yeah new and big and scary yeah how glad were you that um the Shazam character at the time or before you started working on the movie or the movie was coming out not that well known of a character no compared to like if you get the call

and they're like yeah exactly if you got the call and we're like we want you to make a Batman reboot for example like there's something more limiting and intimidating in terms of like you've got all the previous cinematic interpretations. Whereas Shazam, this is a new character to sort of explore. Was that like quite fulfilling? Because it's your voice as the first like major way that general audiences are seeing this character. Yeah, no that was great.

Like yeah, there's no comparison to anything before really. And yeah, introducing it to a lot of people. I mean, if they would have gone like, hey, do you want to do a Batman movie? Like I would have said yes to that too. But yeah, it would have been a lot of, I mean, especially sort of fan expectations because everyone is going to have their own vision of what that character should be. And with Shazam, it was a lot less of that. I mean, I still got emails and things from people like, this is what the movie has to be.

And I also saw a lot of comments from people who obviously wasn't familiar with at least the origins of the character because they were like, oh, it needs to be dark and gritty and all this. is like, have you read the old comic books with like the Talking Tiger and like all this? Like it's goofy as hell, the original Shazam comics. But I guess it was that whole, they just saw what came before in the DC universe and were like, well, Shazam needs to be that too. But it's, that's not who he is. So we're going to want to move into the lighthouse discussion in just a couple minutes.

Ralph, did you have any, I guess he didn't really have much of it. I just wanted to ask you a little bit about lights out. Like all that stuff really fascinates me. So in 2013 you made the short, which is like very cheap. I'm guessing it was like in your apartment. Yeah. What was the leap or the biggest leaps going from that to making the actual film feature film three years later? Technically, I mean, like the crew like financing, what were the biggest hurdles to get through to make that film?

Yeah, finance. Since it was a studio movie, it's just like, yeah, we want to do them. movie here and they just like that like they saw your short and and they just gave you the money to make the film uh I mean kind of because I mean the steps were were basically got in touch with a producer it's like he I want to do the movie blah blah blah and uh he was like we should have a big horror name as a producer on it and he was like the only people who can sell horror is James Wan or Guillermo del Toro so I was like great so he sent it to James Wan and he loved the short.

He was like, yeah, I want to produce the movie. We got a writer. And then James Wan was like, hey, I have this really good thing going on with New Line Cinema. Let's take it to them. And they were like, James Wan producing, viral short, good scripts. Sure, let's do it. And it was just sort of happening. So, yeah, the big hurdles were more sort of, I guess the biggest one was just working with others.

getting used to that just because when you shoot everything yourself and you edit yourself and you make everything from music to visual effects and everything and all of a sudden you're just supposed to tell other people what to do which was very new

the crew was large right for a production like that so you have like 20 people run around set and you have to dictate them all yeah and I didn't even know what all the like yeah I didn't go to film school or anything like that so it's like when I was interviewing people for various positions. I was basically just interviewing them asking them what their job was. Like, what does the script supervisor actually do? And they had to sort of tell me,

oh, this is how it works or like the first AD. Okay, so what do you what do you do? And not, like, I had to ask them. Like, I remember when we did an early camera test and that was like a smaller version of a film set, you know, with everything going on. And that was when I realized, like, I don't know when to say action. So I had to. to ask like the first AD like what is the sequence of the like when do I actually say action because it's like oh sound speed you know roll camera blah blah blah and he had to tell me oh well it's basically when the camera operator says set or ready or you know when the camera operator is right that's when after that you say action so it was just a crash course in and sort of how a film set works

what are the procedures and who does what but then you know the actual movie so storytelling or movie making is, you know, it's very similar to when you're doing your own thing. It's like, yeah, we need an angle over here and we need this to happen. It's just learning how the machine works, you know? Yeah. It sounds daunting. You were up to it. Yeah, but it was hard. Like, I mean, that was the first time my wife had seen me crying was after like a 15-hour day, things had been going wrong. It was just hard. I came home and it was, and home was half a garage in Burbank that we were renting because the, you know,

rents are fucking crazy in Los Angeles. So we were staying, like, I came home to this garage, and as soon as I came into the door, I just broke down. Like, I couldn't help it. It was just crying because it was just like overwhelming. And it was just... Intense, yeah.

Yeah. So it wasn't easy, but it turned out okay. Yeah, I'm glad it did. I think it's important for, people to understand, you know, if you, if you want to be successful, you have to be outside of your comfort zone. You need to, you know, you need to actually take initiative and get something done. And, you know, oftentimes it's going to be uncomfortable. It's going to be something that you're not familiar with. But it's, it's an absolute necessity in terms of growing. Yeah, I'm very much an introverted person.

But I have sort of, thanks to making movies, I've developed quite a bit. But it's still, like I still need my, alone time to recharge and everything but now I've had to do press for a movie I've had to introduce movie you know during screenings and things like that and and and stand in front of the whole studio and say things and it's you better you know just adapt or it's not going to happen you have to do those things that really scary fascinating really sound advice I appreciate it yeah thank you no yeah so I guess we're going to move on to to the first film that we all saw, a film that's fresh in theaters for everybody

except, I guess, Europe, and also Australia. New Zealand. Yeah, North America's got it. Sorry, everybody. The Lighthouse. My favorite movie of the year. Same hair.

Yeah? Awesome. So far, I guess. I haven't seen everything. Yeah, so far. Yeah, what did you all think of it? By the way, let's try, let's try to make it not spoiler discussion. And then as soon as we have something that we, you know, we're begging to dissect about the spoilery parts, then we'll just give a warning. But for now, spoiler free. Yeah, I don't want to hype it too much. Like everyone's saying it's the

greatest movie ever made. I don't want to hype it on too much for people and put like these false expectations in their head. Well, because if you're expecting something, you're just, it's not going to live up to that. Just go see the movie and enjoy it. Yeah. I think that's what happened to me a little bit. Oh yeah? Oh, yeah? Yeah, because I... Oh, interesting. You know, I didn't have a bad time. Like, I thought it was good, actually. Like, because there was so much to appreciate it.

And, like, I think the acting was phenomenal. And, like, cinematography and sound and attention to detail. Like, I think Robert Eggers is a great director. But it kind of felt like all those, the sum of all those parts didn't quite do that much to me. Maybe I had too much expectations because after it was over. it was kind of like, okay, yeah, you know, that was cool. I kind of enjoyed that. But it's, yeah, I'm not really sure.

I think I heard everyone saying like, it's such a masterpiece and so brilliant. And it is in some ways, I guess. But it just, it was strange. It's very interpretive. Because I saw that with my wife and I saw like Parasite. And after Parasite, we were talking about, you know, on the way home, talking about everything in the movie and had this whole discussion. And after the lighthouse, it was just like, oh, yeah, yeah, they were really good.

Yeah, it didn't really do much for me. I'm not sure what I'm missing or if I were just expecting the wrong thing. Well, I mean, different things are going to connect with different people. So it's like, you know, if something doesn't like grab you, then. Yeah, because I read some people who were saying, oh, it's so tense and scary. And I was like, it wasn't really. I mean, it had other qualities. Yeah, I didn't say, I wouldn't say it was scary.

Yeah. It's more of like a psychological horror, you know, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's almost like a theater piece in ways, you know, very, very dialogue. The emotions that's getting out of you were like that of a horror movie, kind of like a racerhead. It's like a horror movie in the same way, a racer head's a horror movie. And I actually kind of, there's a lot of similarities between the two. There's also like the, a lot of like metaphorical characters, like the mermaid in it or, I guess it's not a spoiler, she's in the trailer.

Yeah. Yeah, be careful. Yeah. But like that's, that was very similar to the lady and the radiator from like a racer head. Okay, yeah. It reminded me of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a personification of a desire.

Yeah, and it had the whole sort of Prometheus angle to it, which was like that last image sort of hammer comb for me, but it's, yeah. Yeah, I read some more about it afterwards as well that sort of who Willem Defoe's character could be interpreted ass, which I didn't really pick up on. But yeah, I've been sort of trying to get like, oh, what am I missing here? Why am I not as excited about this as everyone else?

But I guess it just, I don't know, it just didn't quite do it for me. It's that thing about these kind of vague interpretive type of films, like under the skin, where you've got to really read into it. You've got to really be interested to kind of read it sometimes more than you're actually watching it. Because that to me was what was going through my head after the film finish was, what does that mean? What does all of that mean? And putting that together for me and how we're not really talking spoilers, but everyone has their different theories and I was talking to people after the movie. That to me was what really propped it up from.

Because, yeah, technically I really have no criticism at all. I thought it was really quite vivid, like in every way. but that's really what makes it a great film to me rather than just being good was just how much there is to read into and there's so many theories and discussion and that's what's really alluring about the film to me and I'd love to talk about some of the theories but if we're not going to talk spoilers right now hold off yeah we'll do that in a second I think I think it's also important to recognize that like you know just because a film is interpretable I think that some people kind of have this idea where it's the film

automatically great just because there's a lot of subtext or, you know, thematic elements and that people should automatically enjoy it just based on those merits. But, you know, even though I'm a person that loves, you know, my favorite, my all-time favorite movies are like super metaphorical and interpretable. I love those kinds of things. But I wouldn't be as big on those films if they didn't grab me. If they didn't connect with me on a personal way, if I wasn't super impressed by like the overall presentation of something.

You know, there needs to be elements that specifically connect with me before I go into the interpretive part of something. And, yeah, we might as well just throw up spoiler warning and talk about some of those things. Spoiler, everybody. Spoilers for the lighthouse. Sorry, everybody in Europe and not North America. Yeah, come back when you see it in six months.

Yeah. This is, like, I've seen it three times now because I didn't. Well, the first time I saw it was in May at Cannes. And so I've, it's not like I saw it three times in the past week or anything. But I feel like it comes together more, the more times you watch it. Like, I loved it immediately. Otherwise, I wouldn't watch it multiple times. But there's so many clever setups and connections and parallels, like while he's painting the side of the light,

house he falls over and then he's on his back and he's got those like white splotches of paint and then that's like a perfect visual parallel to the end shot of the film where he's got like seagull shit on him you know like it's it's like this perfect little i'm just going to say parallel for lack of a better term right now that works yeah and uh you know you know there's there's this idea like i know it doesn't reveal it until pretty far through the movie that ephraim winslow is actually, I forget what his real name is, but the two characters have the same name. And the film, although not like super obviously, is really kind of, I guess trying to play with the idea that these might be the same person.

Yeah, I got that sense too. I saw it as sort of like a purgatory, like the island necessarily might not even exist. Like it is just going in depth into someone's mind and how they can torture themselves for their past acts or yes you know anything along those kind of lines like a self-imposed exile

almost yeah that's more how I took it yeah exactly especially because he's feeling guilt because he killed or did he kill or I think he did kill him well he let him die kind of right yeah well that's that's what he said

in his explanation uh while he was kind of spilling the beans or whatever but there's there's like there's like visual clues to suggest that it was more than what he'd he'd said vocally. You know, they don't say that their flashback sequences

until you kind of have to realize it by the time that he says the events. But like, there's these, like, quick shots of him, like, sneaking up behind the guy. And I think it's implied that it was more of a murder, even though he didn't really fully admit to it. Yeah. There's the line where he says,

you know, after I saw him die, all I could think was that I wanted a smoke. And then the moment after he kills Willem Defoe with an axe, the first thing he does is light up a cigarette. And I love that little subtle kind of, oh man, there's so many good tie-ins. Is that the right term? Tie-ins?

There's so many good little extra details to this film that I really love. I love the passage of time in it. I got kind of like a synecatee-key, New York vibe from it where every shot could have been like a week like every cut. I got that vibe like especially in that opening shot when they were looking at that boat like go away. I got the sense that they were like a week had gone by in between. It's very chaotic. That shot.

Yeah, I do. It really makes you feel like you're going insane and puts you in the mind of Robert Pattinson's character. And, you know, that's what's so effective about it. It's like a really visceral experience above all this other stuff we're talking about. I love the, like, destruction of the environment, too. Like, it becomes so insane when, you know, the storm destroys everything and there's, everything's flooded. There's, like, water dripping from the ceiling everywhere.

And it's just, it adds to the overall atmosphere so much. I love that. It must have been miserable to shoot. Oh, yeah. That's what I was thinking about. Like, they shot, they shot a lot of it in Nova Scotia. Canada and they built like the lighthouse for the exterior shots they built like this big structure and then for the interior shots they actually wound up doing that in a set somewhere else

so that they could have more freedom with the camera yeah and there's lots of water and all that stuff you don't want to be doing that like yeah out in the open i mean but like even there's certain shots where like willam defoe is legit getting buried alive as he's delivering his life. Yeah. You know? That was incredible. Yeah.

Yeah. They're really giving it there. He really should get like an Oscar or something. I totally think so. It's amazing. He was incredible. I would say that this is probably my favorite performance of his. It was insane.

Robert Pattinson was also great, but I mean, Willem DeFoe kind of steals the show in my opinion. You really have to concentrate to hear what he's saying, though. That was the thing. Just like you had to really pay attention. I agree with you and I was lucky enough that the first time I saw it was at Cannes where they had both French and English subtitles underneath the film. So, you know, that was beneficial to my experience was having the subtitles right there and then the two other times I saw it.

I already knew everything that was happening and it, you know, it became easier to interpret. But, you know, Robert, Robert Edgers, I forget how to pronounce his name. Eggers. Robert Eggos Yeah Lego my Eggos Lego my Eggers

He loves to do this whole Like dialect kind of study with his films Yeah I actually got to have a quick chat with him At Tiff And I asked him like Oh are you just going to continue along this line of

You know extremely strange Kind of like period piece Dialect movies He's like yeah I love it so we might be seeing another one of those because I remember that being like a criticism of the witch that people couldn't really understand everything that was being said because it's so unfamiliar that's one of my favorite aspects that they feel so authentic everyone talks like even if you don't understand what they're saying

sometimes yeah and you really feel that he's done his homework like he oh yeah it really it just feels yeah it seems like insanely it just talked like 21st century people yeah I feel like it annoying and distracting So yeah there's tiny little details like that where you know even in even if there's a lot of movies where Those aren't really put into consideration as soon as you have someone that Does include that in their films and does put in that extra effort it really shows you know It really exemplifies it and makes it stand out yeah it could be one of those movies that I have to just see again because like I remember when I was young I saw like Like clockwork orange the first time and I didn't like it and then I saw it again and then I saw it again

and again again and then now it's like one of my favorites you know so yeah I'm gonna have to give this another chance I think yeah there's a few movies like that honestly well see if it like sticks with you there's some movies that with me for like a year and I'm like oh I want to watch that again it's like it's like beckoning it was like enter the void

I had that it's like creeping into your mind you know there's something that's stuck there it's like oh well you should probably revisit that yeah that's how you know the movie special to me I mean like even after the first time I saw it like what really makes it a great film for me, like a great experience for me, is that there's so much about it

that I can just visually recreate in my mind, and audio-wise, too. Like, the overall sensory experience of the film was just so unique and... It's very memorable. Yeah, it's, it works, it not only works so well, but it's like, it's, it offers something that I don't get from watching another movie. and so even even just like editing choices like that hard cut to the two of them with the dancing yeah the two of them dancing or like the as they lean their heads back and they're chugging like the entire bottle of of booze and it gets into this whole like kind of crazy high energy

montage that feels so you know it's sinister at the same time and somehow comedic it's like just just these the overall feel of the film is just something that really sticks with me and I love it so much. Yeah, the levity for me in particular stood out, especially coming off of his previous movie, The Witch, Which, Which, I haven't seen for a while, but I don't, yeah, I don't remember, you know, there being really any levity in the same way there is in this movie and it really adds to the sort of personality and makes the characters way more likable and the contrast of, when it does get really kind of dark and overbearing, in contrast with the humor, really adds something to the movie that I think was not quite there in The Witch. Yeah, it makes me want to revisit The Witch

because when I first watched The Witch, I was like, you know what? There's clearly a lot of talent here, but it didn't connect with me as much. Who knows? I might, you know, I might not feel any differently about it, but the lighthouse. Yeah, on that same note, though, so many farts in the movie.

Yeah. That was really crazy. me like is this the like the the the most farts uh in a movie this good like what's the what's the next movie that has loads of farts in it and fart jokes that is as good as this hmm i have to think about that one i can't think of any how many how many farts are there in uh every time he farted in the madagascar films alex do you have a fart count for those movies do you have it all figured out do you have do you have it cataloged oh yeah But that begs a question, though, why this movie, in terms of the appeal, it's almost unanimous in terms of just the way people are talking about the movie.

This isn't like an under the skin where everyone doesn't just know about it. People just seem to know about this movie. We mentioned it on a previous episode about it's on the front page of Reddit. People are talking about the movie. Is it just the star power this involved? I really don't know. Probably helps with the Star Palpile. Yeah, that definitely helps.

Sometimes it's a little difficult to know what will sell. But, I mean, the initial trailer got posted, and everybody seemed hyped already. Yeah. Which is nice to see because there's like a black and white square. Oh, yeah. They just connected with a good film that's not based on anything. And it's just like, yeah, it's like this really original groundbreaking in some ways.

movie. Yeah, I think that it's really important to support these types of kind of like atypical out there movies because the more success that those films have, the easier it is for those ideas to get funded. Not that they all have to be black and white. Well, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you don't want everybody creating something that's trying to be the lighthouse, obviously. Right. You don't want to try to be a lighthouse. Let these people express themselves and make something really original and then go see it. Yeah. 824 is doing a pretty good job And you'll get more movies like The Lighthouse

Yeah absolutely they have They made like three of my favorite movies this year A climax They mostly buy movies right Like already made movies I think they distribute mostly Yeah but they also do They also fund

Yeah they produce films too Yeah it's not just distribution But they yeah In the films that they wind up funding They seem to give a lot of Creative control to the director which is really nice and refreshing to see. Any other thoughts on the lighthouse?

What do we think the light is? Oh, man, but that's almost like the wrong question. But I mean, I can give my interpretation. Yeah, but it's the thing everyone's talking about there, isn't it? What's in Marcellus Wallace's briefcase? It's like it almost doesn't matter, but... Well, I mean, like, he... There's a line where Willem Defoe says, you know, within the light, there is salvation.

And if we're going to interpret the film in a way where it is this kind of like singular character dealing with his own past and the mistakes that he's made. Like internal conflict. Yeah, internal conflict, two halves of a person, you know, essentially arguing with each other and they can only tolerate themselves when they're drunk sort of thing. If we're going to interpret it in that way, then perhaps the light is this sort of end idea of acceptance or what's, what's the right word here man i'm struggling uh absolution or like yeah sure what's the yeah because i mean like he he also dies immediately after you know it's like this idea of like like almost like justice for for the sins that he's committed if you want to say that yeah yeah that's why i took away from it too yeah and he gets his liver picked out by bird yum

pecked out by bird yeah just like prometheus well the one last thing i'll mention is the great shot where Robert Patton just snaps and just and then he snaps the seagull that's been like 10. Oh man. Oh god. Yeah. It's such a shocking moment. It's so well edited and the visual effects and that scene are very good as well. Yeah. So just like everyone like in the, in the theater kind of like lifted up a little bit after that. Yeah. Just a flow of the movie. He like beats it for like 30 seconds. It's brutal. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't feel like it slows down at all. And which is a crazy thing to say about a movie where there's so many monologues of just them talking. But it always feels like the tensions being raised with each new scene.

Like everything's kind of getting more chaotic and falling apart. I think the flow of the film is just fantastic. Yeah, love it. Love it very much. And I give it a 10 out of 10, which is not something I do often. But I love it. Well, I do this more often. it five out five great movie yeah I'm with you guys so I give it five out of five great

bottle movie loads to explore awesome stuff what was the last film that we've all unanimously given 100% ratings Shazam right do you uh would you want to sign a number David or do you not do that kind of thing it's fine if you don't it's just something we do I don't usually but I mean going by your scale six out of ten Oh, yeah. The meme answer. Yeah.

No, I don't know. I thought it was good, but I didn't think it was as fantastic as most people seem to. So I probably have to read this a bit and see. Yeah. There's plenty of people that feel that way, and they'll consider you to be a breath of fresh air. Because it seems like everybody's going crazy over this movie. It's good you were here because it would just be a total circle joke otherwise. Sometimes that's what people want to hear, though.

Sometimes they're mad when it's not a circle jerk, depending on the movie. Usually it's the opposite. Usually we're just bickering. Like a bickering. All right. I guess it's time to move into the other movie that we're talking about. I know this is a pretty dense episode. The film recommendation, Halloween kind of movie, I guess, a horror movie.

was thirst from the director of the original old boy, the awesome old boy, and the handmaiden, Park Chanwick. It is a vampire movie, but it has a kind of a different take on vampires. From what I can tell, none of the characters had fangs. There is more of like kind of a disease kind of element to what's going on. You can see the reflection. Yeah, they can see their reflection, that's true. Is garlic like a part of that?

Oh, no, yeah, there was no like garlic. There was no wooden steak or whatever. Yeah. Spoiler warning for Thirst, 2009 film. What did you guys think? I liked it. I thought, I really appreciated the sort of different take on the vampire movie. And that it felt sort of more grounded, I guess.

Yeah, the whole part of like, yeah, if he didn't drink blood, he would, you know, he would get that skin disease thing or. Yeah, no, I thought it was just really good I thought it was a little long perhaps Which is why I'd be curious to see what what the Non-Directors cut is like I don't know how much it's it's really not that big of a difference I don't think it's like 13 minutes or something I mean there's a lot going on in the movie Yeah

It's very plot heavy yeah it was cool how they modernized like the the vision of the vampire That's just kind of become cliche and he made it into something you know very different and more grounded in science, but also the movie's mostly a comedy or has like a like a goofier, oh yeah, lighter tone. And it contrasted with the more horrific scenes, which are fewer than I think the comedy scenes, but like it really worked. I thought the blending of comedy and horror was kind of perfect. And I was not expecting any, anything funny. That's something I find interesting with Korean movies in general is that they're not afraid to put in like comedic element that are sometimes quite goofy.

and they can put it into serious things. And it works a lot of time. Yeah, Bong Joon Ho is great with that too. A lot of South Korean cinema is like this blend of serious but also kind of goofy. And I love how many South Korean movies are able to take those different elements and put them together in the same film in a way where one doesn't detract from the other. Because, you know, if you're going to add comedic elements to something, If those don't work properly, you know, it might just wind up hurting the film or it might make people take the more serious elements less seriously, too.

It almost reminded me of Shaolin soccer at points. Oh, yeah. Hurling the body and all these like crazy moments or jumping around and flying around. Like, it really is gofier points. And sometimes it does go a little bit too far for me. But no, you're right. It does balance the kind of eccentric, but weirdly graham. grounded premise of this interpretation of vampires really well for the most part.

What parts do you think went too far? The scene where they're sort of jumping around on rooftops, I think it was mostly because of the... Visual effects. It just looked kind of aged to me. Yeah, the visual effects. For 2009, it was pretty good. I mean... Yeah, it was strange because it wasn't bad particularly, but it was kind of distracting to me.

Yeah. Especially when the film was already quite long. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Because the film was already quite long. had it and it would have been not distracted. Yeah, and it would have added to the kind of grounded thing that they were doing already. Kind of like that, though. It felt kind of beautiful of them sort of flying around like that.

I think it was more about like the characters at that point, too. Mm-hmm. You know, like it was kind of like a set piece so that their relationship could be explored and developed. I really like the music during those scenes. Oh, yeah, the score is very good. It's a classic sort of superheroy moment. Oh, yeah.

These characters have abilities and they're using them in some way. I like that side of it. Yeah. Grab the girl and fly around on rooftops sort of thing. It is kind of like almost a trope. What I really appreciate about this movie is kind of how from the get-go, like the initial concept, you're taking a character who, you know, has dedicated his life to religion, apparently never even kissed a woman before.

And now through this, like, training. Transformation not only physical like he goes through an entire Character transformation because of this and all of a sudden he's like oh, I'm a monster, you know Like I'm I'm forever in this life of sin now and winds up doing a lot of things that He never would have in the first place while still retaining That idea of like okay. I don't want to try to kill people. I don't want to kill people unless I have to sort of thing Yeah, he has a morality Yeah, very clear right and I always understood him and

Yeah, it was nice to have a character where you actually understood their thought process. Like when he become, when he first realizes that he needs to like consume blood to live. Yeah. He jumps out a window. I love that scene. And it was like a very likeable like, like, oh, he's not going to do this. He knows this is wrong.

And then it becomes like a comedy moment after that. Oh, yeah. But it was like nice to have that. The way his head stuck in the windshield. Speaking of thought processes, the scene towards the end there, when he goes to that camp and he like, it appears to like he's about to rape a girl or something was that sort of just to get them not to see him as sort of this savior something like he would show them that he was a monster yeah yeah there's a there's a lot going on in this movie you know it's it's really packed and trying to do a lot of things at once

but i think that you know especially yeah after after multiple viewings it's a lot easier to kind of get what each sort of element is uh kind of going for there's some things that feel like they probably could have been cut out or like maybe a little out of place but overall nothing like too too huge in terms of like affecting my experience for the movie i guess my biggest criticism with the movie would be just how um the difference between the vampirism and the emmanuel virus or whatever because it seems like it's kind of different things like he got he didn't become a vampire because he got the virus he got it because he got a blood transfusion is like the the lesions on his face is that

more to do with the manual virus or the vampirism either way it kind of cures him when he drinks blood oh yeah I wish that I wish that was developed just a little bit more because even if even as someone who has watched this movie probably four times over the past 10 years or so I guess it came out in 2009 so exactly 10 years even as someone who's watched it few times there are some aspects where it's like a little difficult to understand the like ins and outs of how everything works but still I mean as a as an opportunity for all of the scenes that follow it's really not as important I guess I kind of took it as like him being a vampire he was sort of invincible or like he had this healing power and you know the less he was a vampire than this virus came back that's

sort of how I saw so like if he drinks blood and he he, you know, charges up his healing powers, then that will go away. So it's like he's not necessary. I want, I kind of wanted to know what would happen if he didn't have the Emmanuel virus. Like if he stopped drinking blood, would he just like slowly starve to death? Become more human. Yeah, I'm not really sure exactly how that would have worked. That's sort of what I thought was implied anyway.

I just assumed that if he stopped drinking blood, that would just be the end of him. That was sort of the urgency to fuel things forward for me anyway. How did you guys feel about, I know that this director in quite a few of his movies, there are some scenes that some people could theoretically interpret as being a little overly pornographic in this, and old boy and the handmaiden, but I guess, you know, growing up and seeing this movie more, I've kind of come to realize that there's always kind of a kind of liberating element towards the the sexuality in his films. Like the character literally like has you know never kissed a woman and an old boy the guy

hasn't had a relationship for 15 years or even seen another human being in the Handmaiden, you know, it's a completely forbidden kind of relationship. And so, you know, with that context, I feel like it's justified to have something that kind of goes a little further, a little longer, you know. And vampires, they're quite a sexual creature, really quite intimate, the way they feed. Yeah, and they kind of, you know, the way they trick people to get them in a secluded place. Like, it's all very, you know, intimate and sexual in that kind of way. So that, that didn't bug me at all in this movie.

Yeah, the sexual element worked, definitely. And it's part of the themes of the movie, too, is that, like, he wants to have sex. he wants to be in a relationship with someone. And so he gets into this kind of abusive, almost relationship with this girl who at first is, you know, you feel bad for her because she has a really bad life. But then once she is rid of that, she becomes like this power hungry monster and starts killing people and he can't control her. And I enjoyed like more the metaphor of that of watching a relationship kind of spiral out

of control. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, from the moment she's introduced. like she she obviously has so much character and she obviously is out of place in terms of you know her and the rest of the people that she lives with um her husband with the buggers oh yeah the mr constant runny nose man yeah who's played for like gross out horror too like there's dream sequences oh yeah comes out and tries to like attack them but it's like actually horrifying because you're like it's all psychological just remember that it's very The goofiest part for me, just that smiley face when it's coming back. There's so many really good funny moments. I feel like it turns into more of a true horror film as soon as the female lead starts going crazy and killing everybody.

Because everything before that point, it's really restrained. It's more about the character. It's more about his journey. You know, his journey into this new transformation. But then after that point, all hell breaks loose. And there's somebody in the story that now has these powers that doesn't care if they kill people. That's going to be a complete psycho. And then everything just spirals out of control.

I like how it builds up in that way. Yeah. To me, the scariest scene in the movie was towards the end with the sort of disabled alcoholic woman who's like communicating. and there's like a really fun dynamic that builds and then it really just jumps into the the scares with the more like running away from the vampire characters

and just the way it's executed was quite intense just because of the performances they were really like they really seemed terrified and I really bought that they had really feared for their life and it was just that that was a great sequence I thought yeah that was intense yeah I love that sort of her revealing that they'd killed her like just her eyes or like scratching with her feelings

And the little finger, yeah, and the mahjong pieces. And just that dialogue we get from the guy who's a wife or girlfriend is still learning Korean. And he's like, no, yeah, I've become pretty great at reading what people are thinking through their eyes. You know, if somebody looks at something for four seconds, everyone else will look sort of thing. Just like this kind of almost borderline, fourth wall breaking idea of like, okay, this is where it's going. Like this is, you're seeing it build up and you kind of know where it's going and it's still so, so fun to watch. But it's like it's exhilarating. It's so much fun.

You still want to know what's going to happen. Yeah. Yeah, there's lots of strange dialogue like that, which I usually just pin down to the sort of cultural difference. The way they use language across the pond is always fairly different. You have to take that into account. It was the most glaring to me, though, in one of the sex scenes that had like almost like hentai dialogue. Oh yeah? If you remember.

Give us an example. Hentai dialogue. Yeah, give us an example, Alex. Do your best impression. Get the voice down. Can you say it in Korean, too? Let me find it. Yeah, when they were going at it next to that coma patient,

she said stuff like, am I a pervert? Is it supposed to feel this good? That kind of thing. I just prefer if you just didn't say anything right now. Yeah, I could get that. Who knows how much of that was like manipulation? Who knows how much of that was genuine?

Well, yeah, yeah. As we see her character becoming revealed as someone who's, I mean, obviously not all that together, but really kind of evil, too. Yeah. Yeah, I don't hold it too much against it. It's just, you know, cultural differences and all that. I love that they have the, uh, fat comatose patient that he can just keep getting blood from and that line in the movie where

he justifies it and he's he's like he always wanted to give food to the needy you should have heard his story about the sponge cake like that tiny little setup at the beginning lots of clever setups there's like the his blind friend who says that he wants to you know see the sunrise over the ocean before he dies and then at the end of the film that's what winds up happening to to the two main characters. Yeah, with the shoe thing as well. Yeah. So many great little details.

And, you know, not everything about the movie works 100%, but there's just so much going into it. I love his directing style. You know, it's a very clean. The cinematography was very, like, complex, especially during, like, when they were talking at the table during certain scenes. The camera would be sweeping around, like, tons of people go, like, through the table. I'm like, how did they move to the table while they're doing that? it does.

Yeah, that was quite unique as well, that it's, yeah, sort of oner's, but it sort of goes to all these different setups. Yeah, and they're so well executed. And the camera feels like it's like this floating, omniscient. What's the word of? Amnipotent? Amnition force. Yeah, it just feels like it's floating there, and you're like, oh.

Have you guys seen The Handmaiden? Yes. I have, yeah. I've actually never seen Old Boy. What? Oh, yeah. I've got like a... Oldboy.

Two hour long review But yeah Definitely watch the original Holy crap It's one of the most Accessible Korean films ever It's one that you can show to people That don't watch foreign language films

Maybe like you know what Maybe there's something I'm missing here You know maybe I don't need to just only watch movies in English Even more so than Parasite Because that felt very easy Ooh yeah that one's the new one I could see Parasite getting like a best picture nom It's like people are going

crazy over it. Everybody loves parasite. That makes me so frustrated. I can't see it till next year. What's the point? Move. I've seen it this week. Sorry. That's great. South Korea has really exploded in terms of their film industry internationally.

A lot of talented filmmakers there. Yeah. Lots of great voices that you're not going to find, lots of great experiences that you're not going to find watching, you know, any other kind of movie. It's a very unique kind of thing. There's a certain energy. Yeah, you can see a lot of similarities between different directors,

just this South Korean feel that I really love. And you'll see this guy pop up in every movie. It feels like he's in half of Korean movies. Yeah, there's a lot of familiar faces in a bunch of different Korean movies. But, you know, if they've got like a pool of talent that is really great, I don't know what their population is, honestly.

So that might be a factor. Yeah, I couldn't tell you. What were your, like, favorite scenes in the movie? The end. Yeah? As that transpires where... That sounds like you were glad when it was over. No, no, no, no.

It's just my English accent makes me sound like I'm just always miserable. Yeah, the scene at the end where they drive out into the sea sort of front. Yeah, and it was funny how she was trying to get away from the sound of time. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And as you sort of understand and figure out what's happening. And how he's just foiling every attempt she has to try and stay alive. There's something there's something comedic but also kind of dark about that because of course everyone has that fear. It's one character who's accepted his fate and one that is just refusing to accept theirs, which is really interesting to watch. Yeah. And it's, yeah, really dark.

Yeah, I really like the previously mentioned reveal scene when they find out that they're the killers. and I kind of like them jumping on the roots as well because I thought that was pretty cool Yeah I like that sequence The same thing Yeah the room When they're eating

And they're revealed it to be the killers Yeah it's so intense It's such a great Yeah So fantastic sequence yeah Yeah Very very satisfying payoffs In this movie

Yeah I love that the Like there's this kind of idea Especially with the main character being like a religious man there's this idea of being born again through this whole

vampirism thing and you know it's mirrored when I guess he infects her with the vampire blood and we get that line where he says happy birthday where there's that like subtle little

setup where it's like oh I've never had a birthday just so we can get that line but it also kind of connects into the greater ideas of what the film is trying to go for. He sees himself as like a new person. He says don't call me father when she calls him father. Call me daddy. That reviving scene was very good.

Yeah. Brings her back. In front of her mother. Yeah, yeah. But there's that really interesting shot where they're kind of, it's very close, and they have their sort of arms held in a certain way, and there's that weird symbiotic, like, blood drinking thing going on, which is quite creepy and disturbing

So many disturbing very memorable parts of this movie Hanging the bodies Sucking sounds All the like disgusting blood sounds It was perfect Yeah I love them playing the flute in the beginning

Oh yeah Yeah yeah yeah Yeah it's great Oh yeah just one more thing Just there's certain like really morbid elements In this movie like when When they're having this argument And

And she was like, oh, what are you going to do? Just, you know, keep finding comatose patients to get blood from. He's like, well, I mean, I'm just going to, you know, if it comes down to it, there's people that want to kill themselves that can come to me in confessional. And so I can help them kill themselves. And if I run out of those, then I'll just go on the internet. Like, holy crap. Yeah, because it's a good person desperately trying to justify this need they have.

because he has no choice. He has to do it. And that's like the only way he could like compartmentalize what he had to do. Yeah. I think that's pretty much all we have to say about it, right?

I guess so. Yeah, I'd say so. Yeah. Very good film. Good for Halloween. Yeah. To like, I didn't get as many like

of the horror elements I wanted out of it. I wasn't really scared or horrified as much as I was just entertained. But it's still a very good movie and it's very original and technically

well-made, you know, guys a great director. I'll give it a four out of five for now. I'd like to see it again. I'm glad I saw the director's cut too. Because from what I know about his style, it's very specific. Like he storyboards everything and like in order.

So it's nice to see everything kind of together in that way and not trimmed up and rearranged because apparently he does not like the other cut of this movie as much. Yeah. Oh, really? Okay. Yeah. Because of that. Because the look of his movies is so specific. Yeah.

Like even you can see like scene transitions are very well done. Like it would go from like a source of light to like a candle or something. Like I can't. Yeah. Very co-ordinated. And that's kind of removed and the other cut. Anyway, sorry. He did stoker too, right?

Oh yeah. He did. Yeah. Because that's one of my favorite like transitions like when combing her hair and it turns into like grass or something like it's beautiful. Yeah. Well, I'm with you Ralph. Same school.

Four stars. out of five. This will sit next to let the right one in in terms of interesting takes on sort of vampire, modern sort of takes on it. Yeah. Yeah, really interesting. Unique, yeah, creative.

I give it a nine out a ten. I love it. Love the style. Love the energy. It's just one of those movies that, you know, I'm not going to watch it every week, but I'll be watching it every few years for sure. You know,

It's a good one to introduce to other people. It's a good October movie, for sure. David? Yeah, score, I don't know. Eight? You don't have to. Ten, maybe. It was a bad for a show.

It was, yeah. Recommended. Six out of ten. Yeah. All right. I guess it's question time. Yeah. Let's go into the questions then.

All right. Before we move on to the question. questions though uh if you want to leave your own for the next episode of sardonicast head over to the sardonicast reddit where there will be a thread that ralph will pin you can ask us whatever you like today we're going to start off with one from donko eight and this is very this is for uh david specifically for mr samberg how much influence did you draw from kung fu panda two in the development of shazown uh i've never seen kung fu panda too i think i saw the first one when he was came out.

What's the what's the yeah what kind of fan base this is like a weird somebody else asked this question was

yeah everyone everyone on the subreddit has been asking this question on repeat because I have this weird obsession of Kung Fu Banded to it I think it's awesome and just

completely circumstantially there are loads of weird like thematic similarities between Shazam and Kung Fu Panda 2. So I was really curious if I'm just insane, or you actually had seen the movie.

I haven't. Maybe Henry, Henry Gaden, the writer of the film, maybe he has. I don't know. No, I'm not curious about Punchf Panda 2. So what's just thematic? Or he doesn't turn into all the superhero?

The main character has a very similar arc, and there are little details that are, and there's sort of an ensemble cast that comes together at the end. for like a kind of fight scene and there's even like a joke right but right before the like a fight of the protagonist and antagonist where the joke is is the same joke so it's like is that like a callback is that or is that just circumstantial which it must be i had to ask it i had you is that the one where uh someone was saying about a joke where the we can't hear the bad

guy or something yeah yeah yeah is that from that one oh okay Yeah. Hmm. That joke actually came about when I was showing Henry some animatics we'd made. And I'd put the two of them like sort of far apart in a city. That's what sort of gave him the idea of like, would he even be able to hear him that far away? So it was actually not in the script. It was something that came up after he saw the animatic of where we placed the characters.

But I don't know if he, I have to ask him if he's seen it. And now I have to watch it. Follow up question, I guess it's kind of similar. Do you agree with the, I know a lot of people, including myself, have drawn similarities between Shazam and the Ramey Spider-Man films in terms of, I guess, tone. Do you agree with those comparisons? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was an influence.

Awesome. Like, I love Ramey's Spider-Man movies and, like, his tone and his, you know, feel. And, you know, he has that sort of horror-ish. scene with Dr. Octopus and yeah. Great. Yeah. Awesome. I love those movies. Yeah.

Okay, let's go into all we can actually all answer then. Just N1K asks a Halloween horror-related one. What is the creepiest performance from an actor that you have ever seen in a film? Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter, that's what comes to me. I know it's like an obvious one, but it really is like fantastic in that. So much so that he's like, like in that movie for 10 minutes and he got like a sequel. I think that's based on the book too.

Is it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The first one that comes to mind for me is Harvey Bardem in No Country for Old Men as Anton Chaguer. Great shows. Very creepy performance.

So much behind that character. Very unpredictable. Very, like unstable. Very creepy. I've got an unintentional one from a film I saw recently. Welcome to My. Marwin, I watched with Steve Carole. Okay.

Really creepy performance, like unintentionally. You have to check that out. But my actual answer is the kids from Hereditary. Oh, yeah. Something about that really, yeah, really gets on to my skin. They're like, I can't do that noise. Yeah, that's the one. Yeah.

That, to me, is creepy as hell. I don't know. I mean, those are all very good answers. I mean, I'd probably have to go with Anton Chigger. Just because, yeah, he's so unpredictable and, like, he feels really scared. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Would be a completely different movie without the character and the performance. Yeah. And, I mean, those parts I can watch over and over again. Oh, yeah. The gas station scene where it's like the coin flip, coin toss thing. Call it. Yeah.

Very well performed. That's a good answer because it's not even a, you wouldn't even think of it normally as a horror movie necessarily. Yeah. Yeah, I guess not. But it's like a horrific kind of character in performance. Yeah. Okay. Apologies for this name in advance, but this is Reddit username. P.P.06784 asks us this.

That's as bad as I was expecting. How do you feel about actors who are difficult to work with? Should they be allowed to call the shots in some way or is filmmaking a collaborative process? And they are disrupting what should be a well-oiled machine. On that notion, how is it okay for directors to harass actors, i.e. Hitchhawk or Kubrick. but it's not okay for actors to be jerks to directors slash co-stars Jared Letto or Christine Leyen. Well, the truth is that the actor is kind of in charge.

You don't want them to know that. But the thing is, like, if an actor refuses to do something or say something, what are you going to do? Like, you just have to work around it because you can't force someone to say anything. So they have a lot of power. Yeah. But, yeah, I don't think it's okay for directors to be assholes to actors either.

I think, you know, ideally you would all get along. You want to be professional. That's not the case, of course, but always. You just reminded me of there's a couple instances where the actors essentially overrode what the final cut of the film would be by intentionally giving bad performances

in the variations that they didn't want. So I think in the original Star Trek, it might have been William Shatner, and there was supposed to be a kiss between him and someone who wasn't of his race, which was controversial at the time. And so they intentionally did terrible takes for the variation

of, oh yeah, you're not going to give her a kiss sort of thing, just to ensure that it would be in the final product. And then there's also like Sandra O in Hard Candy. Apparently, in this variation that they shot that she didn't really like, she just

intentionally did it with a Texan accent, just so it would be unusable. Like, no, yeah, I want, this is how I want character to be. There's also the famous Wesley Snipes and Blade 3 refusing to open his eyes and they had to comp eyes opening on top of his face. Oh wow. I didn't know that. I had no idea. What about like Harrison Ford, Blade Runner narration? Oh yeah, yeah. But it's interesting actually, I actually met the guy who does a lot of Vin Diesel's ADR lines because apparently you have these guys who can sound like these famous people because their schedules are so,

pack so they might not be able to come in and do ADR, like, you know, re-record dialogue and things like that. So you have these other people, like this white guy come in and do like the diesel voices and things like that. And it's like, that's in the movie. Like, we just think we're hearing those actors, but we're not, you know. Interesting. Like the end, the second half of, Be Prepared was sung by Jim Cummings and not Jeremy Irons. So, really depends on. Yeah. Yeah. The second half of it, he blew out his voice and the, you won't get a sniff without me, line. And then the rest of it is just Jim Cummings. All right.

I'm going to have to rewatch that now. Yeah, I mean, you can't even tell. It just, it's like the character, you know. I guess back on the topic to the question, it really depends on the project, I guess. It really depends on the relationship between the director and actor, because there's, Some people that, you know, will want to work together very closely and collaborate with the same unified idea like Paul Thomas Anderson and Daniel Day Lewis really, you know, trying to explore the character and there will be blood. But there's other instances where, you know, it can obviously be beneficial to have different ideas, I guess. I guess that would still count as collaboration because at the end of the day you need to kind of agree on.

Yeah, but I mean, you have like Kinski and Herzog, you know, doing things. together and just nothing but fights and arguments and it still turns into something, you know. It depends on the actor too, because some of these actors, like Tom Cruise, are producers on the movie too. They put their own money into it. So they have a lot more say as to the final product. Then there's like actors who just show up on set and like, yeah, they have control over their lines, but that's about it. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess it depends what's appropriate to the project as well. Like, if there's a mutual agreement and relationship already founded that it, is based on, some people just don't get along and they, they argue, but at the end of the day

can still produce quality work, whereas, you know, if you do have, I don't want to just pull Tom Cruise out again, but an actor of that kind of, you know, fame, come in and then kind of walk all over anyone. It's, you know, it's, it's just not very professional, because it is a collaborative process and it just, it just works best when everyone's working together, so it's just, yeah. And when there's like a hierarchy to it, you're all, the service of like a vision. Who's movie is this? Yeah, like that mummy movie.

Tom Cruise had a lot of influence in that and it became kind of a mess because of it. It became like a weird action movie with him as the star, even though he's not the mummy. So it's like very weird what these actors do sometimes. You have a good one from Crow Guys who asks, do you think that jump scares can be used positively? Are there any examples? Yeah. The Lighthouse had one jump scare when the phone came out. Yeah, I mean, one of my favorite jump scares is in Mulholland Drive, which isn't really, you know, a horror movie, I think. But the hobo behind the coffee shop, I mean, I love that scene. It's just such a good buildup of like, there's going to be something scary here.

And sure enough, like, you're prepared for something scary, but you're not prepared for that face, you know. Buildup's great. Yeah. In my opinion, I know. It would be that there are ways to do it properly. Just because a jump scare exists doesn't mean that it's a bad movie. However, where it starts to become a problem is when a film is reliant on jump scares, when it's more of a excuse to try and get people startled when in reality what's being shown on screen or the ideas it's presenting aren't really scary to begin with.

it shouldn't be used as a crutch is how I feel. Yeah, because I think as long as you have like you're building towards them or you're sort of setting them up, I think they're fine. I think sort of an example of what you were talking about in one of the paranormal activity movies, there's a girl just sitting in a

kitchen, just reading the paper or something, nothing's happening, you don't hear anything, then all of a sudden all the kitchen cabinet flies open in a big jump scare and that feels cheap because nothing was happening. You were just sitting there waiting for something to happen and boom you know but if it's it's in the right context i i love

jump scares yeah the the uh phone call trope in so many horror movies yeah or like just the friend putting a hand on oh yeah the oh no my friend yeah hit the fake out one someone walking past the screen that's somebody that should be in the scene anyway like things that wouldn't be scary unless you added an orchestral hit and even then it's just more startling than scary. On the thread, someone pointed out a really good one that isn't in a horror movie. In Jurassic Park, with the goat leg

slamming down on the car right before that whole Tyrannosaurus Rex sequence. I remember that one's stuck in my mind from since I was a kid, I remember that. Shocking me. Definitely, yeah. Yeah, there's, I remember there being at least one or two good ones

in the descent. But that's also a film that, you know, the whole movie isn't jump scares. There's, there's so many different elements of fear that go into the movie. There's like the claustrophobia. There's like everything's dark, you know? Like, there's so many different ways of scaring people. And it doesn't just do the same thing over and over. It's not, it's, it hurts the movie when it gets too repetitive.

And especially when you can just see jump scares coming. It's like, I personally. felt like in the new like it chapter two just the way that they did the jump scares in that movie I just every single time it was just predictable for me because you saw the formula of how it was happening at first and then it's like okay so they're just going to do the ooh is something there oh it's not there turn around and then jump scare and it's just like every single time it happened I was just like you know I shouldn't I shouldn't be ahead of the film in that way but yeah there's there's a lot of examples where it's done well for sure

I thought that actually in the opening scene for Lights Out, that was a good one. Oh, thank you. Which one? The one that's, she just comes close. Yeah, it was the, with the woman at the beginning, which was kind of like, I guess that scene was pretty similar to the original short. The short film. Yeah. I thought that that was effective.

It doesn't feel cheap because it's like a part of the gimmick of the film. And I don't mean gimmick in a negative way. but it's a part of like yeah what no but I mean that's what it is and it is sort of a popcorn horror movie where that sort of stuff is expected people want their jump scares in a movie like that

you know yeah I mean it's literally like but it's interesting it's interesting how many people I've heard from now here in Hollywood where it's like oh yeah we did a variation of that lights out gag in this film I was working on like the director showed us the short

film and stuff like we got to do something like that it's like oh really so it's inspired a lot of people which I think is great now but when it first went viral there was like this Indian movie that just ripped it off completely and I was like

what the hell like here I am in Sweden broke trying to make movies and they're just stealing my stuff why don't you know I could direct the movie for them just let me do that but now I just see that's oh that's flattering I was going to say in film school there are at least two people who made like

exact copies of lights out like in film class it just presented it. Oh, that's funny. Like the same exact concept. Yeah. Way worse. It's being done. Just know you're inspiring tons of young artists. Yeah. Which is great. Yeah. That must have, when you

when you thought of that concept, that must have been a I cannot believe no one has done it like this before. Yeah, and I mean, variations of it have been done. There's an X-Files episode called Darkness Falls where you don't, I think that's the other way around. Or like, they don't. kill you unless you're in the dark, but they're still there in the light or something. But, I mean, variations of it have been done.

Yeah, I guess like the weeping angels and Doctor Who as well. Sort of similar ideas where they're like similar mechanics. Yeah. It's just their light aspect that makes interesting to me. Let's do this one just for David from New Old Face. What kind of professional experience to people who write scripts for Hollywood films typically have? Are they typically literature majors, accomplished novelists, etc? It seems to be all kinds of things, really.

I mean, some start out as assistants and just work their way up, I guess. I'm not entirely sure, but it seems that people come from all over, and they have all sort of different stories. I'm not sure I'm the right person to answer that. That's just curious, no perspective more than anything. Yeah. They have it rough in Hollywood, though. The writers, you mean?

Yeah, I think they do. Well, like, I hear a lot about how, like, their scripts are taken by studios and repurposed and rewritten. And, you know, I can imagine that's kind of disheartening as a writer. Yeah. To, like, have your work messed with in that way. And a lot of them have kind of accepted it and moved on. Yeah, but that's part of selling it, too. Yeah, I mean, if someone was writing a book.

A writer's medium. Yeah, exactly. The writer is the boss. while on movies it sits off and the director and the director can go like

no I don't let's change this and let's do that and you know there's that story of like if you get fired off of your movie

that you're writing that's a good thing because that means the movie's getting made because they're taking in a new writer to just do some fixes before they go and shoot it

you know so that happens a lot and sometimes people they get fired from their own movie another writer comes in and does a pass and then they get hired

again on their own movie and it gets made so it's strange sometimes it's a good thing to have that many voices in it when you're selling your work you can't you can't get too attached to how it's going to turn out

in the final product yeah it was interesting when I first got the script for Shazam it had like a list of like 10 writers like with William Goldman and all these like famous names because they've been trying to make a movie of that

for over a decade and just had all these writers do different takes on it or whatever. So the script I read had all these names, but then, of course, it goes through arbitration once the movie gets made, and they see that, no, no, only these two writers actually wrote this version of the movie,

so all those other names get taken off. That's crazy to think about, too, all the scripts that just never got made. Oh, yeah. Even for the same film or just all these different movies that just never happened. Yeah, but sometimes they happen a decade later, like Gemini Man or 20 years later.

Yeah. Ralph's favorite? Yeah, best movie of the year, actually. Forget a lighthouse. All right, one more question. Okay, let's end on this one. Speaking of It Chapter 2, Little Wolf 9 asks this.

What do you gorgeous boys feel is the best TV slash film adaptation of Stephen King's novels? Hell of a lot to choose from. Shining. See, I was going to choose the Shining, but from what I hear, I read the Shining book,

but it's very different. Yeah. Kubrick's The Shining is kind of a fuck you to the novel in ways. It is. There's a part where they drive by the wreckage of the car from the novel. It's like an extra little, like, yeah, I don't care about your book. And then Stephen King got mad and tried to make his own made-for-TV version. Or he's like, this is the true writing.

And then it, yeah, it's the Kubrick version. There's a lot to choose for. You have the non-horror ones like Shawshank Redemption, which is great, you know. But I've always had a soft. I haven't seen it in a very long time, so this might not hold up. But I always had a soft spot for needful things. Max 1. Cito. Mm-hmm.

I haven't seen that one. I've never seen that. Needful things. Yeah. It's pretty cool. It's about sort of a guy who opens up a shop with everything you want in it, but he doesn't charge for it. Like, instead, like, hey, I'll give you this if you just do me a favor. Oh, yeah.

He sort of gets this hotel. I've seen variations of that. Yeah. And like maybe a Simpsons Tree House of Terror parody sort of thing probably. Yeah. Hmm, let's see. I'm just going through the list here. If we're going to talk about like the horror ones, I kind of like the mist.

I know that there's a few people that, and even in my memory, like I watched it again for the 2007 list thing that I'm just finishing up now. In my memory, it was always kind of like, you know, half ironic enjoyment. You know, it's like kind of bad or something. Right. And then I found out that the version I've been watching the entire time was not the intended version that originally Frank Derbant wanted the film to be in black and white. And so on the collector's edition two-disc, Blu-ray, on the second disc, you can actually watch the black and white version, and it completely changes the experience of the movie.

It's like so more clear what it's going for, the effects look better, it's so much more atmospheric. I was going to say, yeah. I'm like, wow. Did they shoot it for black and white? and white? I think, well, it was shot in color and then they removed. Oh yeah, shot it.

But like, did they light it like they were going to make it black and white again? They knew they were going to do that. I would have to look it up. I don't know exactly how far into the process that they decided they should just do it in color anyway. Because if like the studio just put it in color after all that, that's probably part of the issue. It looks so much better in black and white. Yeah. I doubt the studio would go like, I mean, the studio would probably say right up front that no, you can't shoot it in black and white.

So, yeah, maybe. But that's a shame, because, like, I think that's, like, the only thing that really takes me out of that movie is the visual element. Yeah. Yeah. And the effects and the cinematography. But, like, the story was really great. And the acting was great, too. It's so depressing, though, that I haven't rewatched it in forever.

Very dark and mature. It completely transforms the movie. And it turns it into, like, I mean, there's, like, an intro on the, the Blu-ray by Frank Darbant, too. And he's saying, like, yeah, this is like a, this is like a homage. or homage or homage, or homage, however you want to pronounce it, to like mid-1960s pre-color horror films. And it has become so much more clear in its presentation when you see it in black and white.

It's like, oh, wow, this is what I was trying to go for this entire time. And it works so much better. It's so weird. Yeah, because isn't the main character like a painter or something? You're like paints posters or something? I remember movie posters being part of the story and somehow. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of bottle movies, I really like,

I haven't seen it for a long time, but misery. I like that story. Something quite frightening about the obsessive sort of fan that takes it a step too far. And I remember there being quite a memorable ending to that one. I'm ashamed to say that I haven't seen it yet. I love Kathy Bates. Misery's great.

I know, it's something that I should have seen by this point and I just haven't. It's just been sitting on my list for a while. Yeah, it's awesome for memory. I've seen many parodies, obviously. Yeah. It's a very pop culture film. Cool. I guess, I guess that's it. That's the end. Awesome. So I guess, Alex, it's your turn for the recommendation for next episode, right? Yeah, it's like catch up. I want to talk about a 1991 film. I've been meaning to watch for a long time, David Cronenberg's Naked Lunch.

Awesome. It's always been interesting looking for me. guys seen it? I saw I was so young and I saw parts of it where my brother was watching it and it always looked very intriguing. So I know what it is like.

There's definitely things visually in my mind that I have not forgotten. But yeah, I would love to talk about that. Awesome. Okay. Okay, brilliant. 91, Kronenberg, Naked Lunch. And I think it's pretty easy to get out of.

Pretty easy to get it. Not just saying because we always have this issue of yeah, people like trying to find copies. This is one, I'm pretty sure it's just on iTunes. I think it's on criterion too. Even better. Yeah? Great. All right, anybody listening.

If you don't want to be spoiled for Naked Lunch, we're going to have a spoiler discussion on that next episode. So watch it between now and then, which will be two weeks from now. Theoretically, even earlier, if you decide, to support us on Patreon.com slash sardonicast or sardonicast.com

sign up for premium. It's $2 a month. You get these episodes early as they're edited. Also, we got merch. Check out the merch. Christmas is coming out soon. Christmas is coming up soon.

The movie Christmas. It's coming out. Get your gifts. Get your gifts. You want to support us. You want to be charitable. And also, if you want to support our lovely guest.

Go buy his films. Lights out. Annabel Creation. Shazam. Check out his YouTube channel. Pony Smasher. Where he has a lot of insightful

observations about the industry and filmmaking. And that's also your Twitter handle too. Anything else you want to plug or promote? No, that's about it. Yeah, I'm on Twitter and Instagram, whatever.

Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much. We really appreciate you coming on the show. Yeah, thank you for coming. Thank you for having for coming on, dude. Yeah, there's a lot of fun. Got me to see Thirst.

Yeah, boy. I'm glad you enjoyed it. And yeah, thank you for listening, everybody. Bye-bye. Bye. Bye, everybody.