Sardonicast - Sardonicast #47: Doctor Sleep, Naked Lunch

Episode Date: November 18, 2019

Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/9vwgY2C Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthe... Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovi... Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Timecodes: 00:00 - Intro 01:42 - Soul 19:09 - Doctor Sleep (Spoilers) 44:11 - Naked Lunch (Spoilers) 1:08:17 - Q&A Ralph's recommendation for next episode is Performance (1970)

All right. Three, two, one. Hey, it's the Rebel Taxi Pizza Party podcast. I'm pan pizza. Who are you people? Except I'm not. I'm Adam from you for a movie sucks and this is SardanaCast. I lied, I'm sorry.

I'm Ralph. From YouTube.com slash Roth the Movie Maker. And I'm Alex from I, G. And I'm feeling pretty soulful today. Tell you what. Oh, yeah. I'm just, I'm feeling great. Soulful is the right word for how I'm feeling.

We're all very energetic and happy. So about that new Pixar movie coming out. Oh, nice, yeah. Oh yeah, I forgot that was the thing. You just reminded me. It's called soul. Yeah, like Korea, the capital. Oh, okay.

Yeah, I guess we could have a few different meanings. They're making their first ever Korean film. Yeah. That would have been a twist if you thought it was going to be about. Yeah, the first third of the trailer was like that good part and then the second third it becomes inside of two. But then the third part, they go to Korea. They go another layer.

Yeah, another layer of soul. It's actually just Koreans inside everyone's soul. Exactly. And then the play on words would work really well. Exactly. What'd you think about the trailer? We went down that tirade because I don't have anything to say about it. Oh.

You know, it's so sad because, like, the first half of the trailer, I was so on board. I was like, yeah, this seems like a bit of a new direction. This actually seems like it has some personality, you know. And then, nope, it looks like it's just another inside out thing going on. It's like, oh, this just looks like another Pixar thing. Yeah, so do they want to sell merch that bad? they have to create like a little plushy so the main character just becomes like a plushy.

At least it's original though. I have been upset. They've been making nothing but technically I've been upset these past few years they've been making nothing but Incredibles 2. Monsters Inc. prequel, remake whatever.

Coco was very good. That's probably the best thing they've made in a long time. Yeah, probably in a while. This looks like inside out outside in probably has the same structure it's a weird way to do it for sure

probably the same structure as like the rest of these movies that they have yeah a buddy road trip kind of thing buddy adventure oh yeah because they have that other one coming out what was that one called it's uh like onward it doesn't even look like it's onward yeah onward yeah it doesn't even look like a pixel

really it looks like a Disney movie more so I didn't hear much about that everybody is saying that that one looks like shit I kind of I don't know I might be excited for that one. I'll give it a chance. It looks like it could be fun. It looks like a different like change of pace for like a Pixar movie, you know? Mm-hmm.

Again, it's like an adventure buddy thing, but I don't know. The like fantasy angle. Yeah. Sort of like that movie, that Netflix movie Bright. You know, with it's like the fantasy elements in the real world sort of. It's like, yeah, because they're on like a, they have like a block of houses and they're all very like modern and they wear jeans and stuff, but they're like elves or whatever. Yeah, I don't know.

I prefer kind of like fantasy universes, you know. It gets so bored when it's just like, oh, human beings, am I right? But that's what was selling me on this Soul trailer, though, at first. I mean, yeah, that's true. The way the film looked up until the point where it just becomes inside out, it's like, wow, this could be really cool if it's one of those kind of almost like Woody Allen, like the city is a character type thing. Yeah, that's definitely the important. I was getting at first. It is just a trailer too.

It could mostly be that. Yeah, we could be over-interpreting. Yeah. We'll see what it's like. There's a strange choice to do it that way, I guess they've got to just release more trailers, but I mean, it still might be good. I mean, we have a bit of a rep on, like,

especially on our Reddit, like it's just Pixar hate and cool cat. It's like the two topics. Yeah. And I don't like hate Pixar. They just had some kind of weak output the past 10 years compared to the previous time. And that's more disappointing because, especially me, I've had such a connection to them. I grew up with those movies.

I mean, they think they're all great. And now it's like either just, they're really just trying to capitalize off them, almost nostalgia bait with some of them. And it's like kind of soulless. Ah. Soless? Got them. I don't know. I think it's just a lot of.

creative people just are not either doing the same things or working at Pixar anymore. You also think that it's partially because we recognize the Pixar formula now. You know, like these new kids growing up on these movies might love them the same way we were the, you know, the older ones. Kind of, yeah. But, I mean, like, it's not just, Pixar certainly has a formula, but you could, you could say that that's true for, like, any kid's movie at the same time. A lot of these things are really formulated,

but still, I feel as though a lot of their original works had much more of a personality, you know, were better written, like, less conveniences. Toy Story 2, it was like a new story.

It wasn't just like a recycling of the first film. Still, Cars, Bugs Life, I don't think those are great. Like, those are the earlier ones, but they had a lot of good hits in there, too. Yeah. And their duds weren't as bad. Like, Cars,

3, Cars 2, good dinosaurs, I still haven't seen that. I think Cars 2 is the worst thing they've done. Good dinosaur is so sad. It was sad that film. Especially with how much I love dinosaurs.

I was hype for that one. I was like, for real, Pixar making a movie about dinosaurs? This is, this is gonna be great. And it was like, this is the most,

the most boring film. God, it was dull. Was it a buddy adventure movie? No, it was like, it was the, it was the, like, tragedy thing, right? Didn't the main characters like parent die and then they had to go on a journey or something?

Oh, it's like, oh. Sort of, but with dinosaurs. Oh, okay. Yeah. And no charm. Because it was when they first nailed like the photo realism. So they had this strange art direction where they had like this incredibly realistic looking environment. Oh, that was another trailer that really pissed me off.

Yeah. I had the same experience of the song trailer. The dinosaurs looked very toyish. Yeah, where you first see the silhouette. Probably for a reason. Yeah. It's like, oh man, they're actually going to do something cool. And then no, it's like, yeah, it's a kid's movie.

Oops. Sorry. We never, we never spoke about Toy Story 4, did we speaking on a Pixar? I don't think Ralph saw it. I saw it reluctantly. I'm probably over the shit. Yeah, I watched it out of interest. Yeah.

How was it? It wasn't good. Yeah, tell me about it. It just, it was just so unnecessary. to me. Yeah. You're saying about repetitive Pixar movies, like, it's the fourth one. And it's like, it's just the same thing.

Again, like, the themes are so basic and simple in Toy Story. Like, they're stretching it thin. They're stretching that thread on Woody's back pretty thin. Yeah, it was really difficult to care about anything going on. And, like, bringing back Bo Peep, spoilers, I guess. The movie's been out a while, whatever. Anybody who wants to see Toy Story for us has already seen it. But like, yeah, that was, it just felt completely unnecessary.

Tons of conveniences, like, how the, they just ran into each other at the same playground at that perfect moment. You know what it felt like. Come on. It felt like those straight to DVD and story things, like the Halloween episode, but stretched out to a full length. Yeah, they have much higher production value. And there are things to appreciate about the movie for sure, mostly animation-wise. There was a video breaking down, like, the different artificial lenses being used in the film. And to some extent, if it was showing a certain character, there was a certain lens based on how they're supposed to be feeling at that moment.

That's great, but it doesn't excuse the story just being really uninteresting. It doesn't excuse the story just being, like, super convenient the entire time. And when I gave it, what did I rate it? Like a four on IMDB? There were people in my suburb just being like, man, you don't approve. Appreciate it enough here. This video is evidence like I think it was the nerd writer video about the lenses and it's like That's icing, you know? Those are extra things. You have to have a good core to your film. You have to have like an interesting Conflict. You have to have something that doesn't feel like fake and forced

They always push the the boundaries with that stuff with the technology Disney gives them a lot of money to do that stuff Like it's founded by Pixar was founded by some of the people from Apple. Yeah, Steve Jerbs Is that a big role to play? Yeah, they've always been groundbreaking. Like, even the movies they've made recently that have been so good. I think they're really impressive technically. Yeah, man. Like, Brave, I really don't like.

I think it's really bad. But the hair was amazing, especially at the time. Like, what they did with hair and that. Yeah, it was like a tech demo movie. Pretty much the opening scene was just, hey, look how well we've nailed this water. This water animation. Yeah, yeah. It looked fantastic, the opening scene.

Like, holy crap. I was really impressed. But people also have to understand. It's like a, it's like a process. They've been making these movies for so long. And now they just, you just get, it's cool to see the technology progress and it got better. But I don't think that makes the stories any better at this point. Because they've been doing it for so long.

It's not even impressive. Well, yeah. We're actually, we're an interesting plateau now because they are able to make it look so realistic. Where they're going to have to start getting more creative because in 10 years, when everyone's able to do this, it's going to be the story. and the art direction, they've got to fall back on more than just look how realistic the water is. Like everything's just procedurally generated. Yeah, yeah. A computer can basically just do everything for you at a certain point in time.

Yeah, like G-mod, but they can pick some movies. Yeah, not to delegitimize the talented animators working today, but hypothetically the real stars of all these animated movies. Yeah, that's the best part. And that's why a lot of people watch them. A lot of Disney fans just love seeing the animation. Mm-hmm. It's appreciating that.

Yeah, I think we're in the minority in terms of Toy Story Full. I think more people than not enjoyed it. Sure. Yeah, which is why people make those posts on our subreddit, because it's probably very liberating to have one place on the internet where you can be a little critical of Pixar and people won't downvote you to oblivion, right? So, of course we're going to have people like that on our subreddit.

Sure. Yeah, and Buzz Lightyer in that movie annoyed me a lot. I really like Buzz as a character. he's like my favorite one and they like what they did with him in Toy Story 4 was just come on I don't even remember what they did with him. He was just a gag character he was just a gag character he had one running joke and that was his whole like point in the film yeah I remember not liking what they did with him in Toy Story 3 either yeah it's that thing when you have a huge ensemble cast and you

complete their arc in one or two movies so then you just have these characters like hound solo in the third Star Wars movie where he's like well we've sort of completed everything to do with this character he has no point so you just turn them into like a gag running gag like comic relief type thing so I saw this movie like probably within the past two months I think and I'm now just getting like flashbacks of like oh yeah all these different things that happen like the keanu reeves canadian motorbike guy where it was literally just like he had three scenes one was like set up for goals very quickly introduced and just like I want to be able to jump that thing next

scene oh no I tried jumping the thing and I didn't make it and then at the end of the movie I made it I jumped the thing and it's like oh it's so forced it's so forced you can see the set up so clearly it sounds awful oh man that's what Keanu Reeves does developed there I thought Keanu Reeves was like a toy oh man he was a toy but he had a toy bike and he was trying to jump a thing oh okay and he was he was like this whole backstory yeah literally it was just like show it and then it's done and nothing else about this character is there It wasn't, it wasn't like efficient writing. It was literally just underdeveloped and like, uh, you know.

It's a stupid guy. That seemed like the Pixar formula and action to me, they were trying to make basically a plot device, like sympathetic. Yeah. And they, they're so good at using music at this point. Like, so are film trailers. And I don't, I don't think people realize just how manipulative music can be. Oh, yeah.

It's so cookie cutter. I'm going to say that line again. My voice is dying. It's so cookie cutter. Oh, my God. I was having so much fun yesterday. It's so cookie cutter and formulated. And it's just, it's like a factory machine.

It's like everything, everything is on this checklist in order to get an emotional response out of people. And it doesn't feel genuine. You know, I want to watch movies where it's like, it feels like someone wants to communicate something. Disney's like remade or they've made sequels to their animated movies for a long time and that's they put them like straight to DVD or whatever But that's kind of what Toy Story 4 felt like on a on a story level like we just need to give these characters something to do again I imagine the villain thing is very similar to how they've done it in the past or where they make it sympathetic It's just like I've seen it done before and they ended it so perfectly too However long ago it was 2010 like I didn't enjoy it again

third one, but... I did a lot. I think it was a good cap to the series. It would have been the place to end it. I'll agree with you there. Yeah, definitely. It felt like an appropriate place to stop.

Yeah. I wonder if people are going to act surprised when the Toy Story 5 gets announced. I wonder if people will pull the same, like, oh, I can't believe they're doing this. Not anymore. The movie ends in a very open-ended way to sort of set up where it could

possibly go in the future without spoilers. So it's like, oh, a new sort of of like cinematic universe then we'll get the toy story universe now for he's got his own show on yeah right at the end i won't spoil it for anyone who has seen but people will know what i'm talking about well right disney's got to make as much money as they can off toy story they have that park like there's a own section of their park in in disney world that's like toy story got to sell tickets for that i mean it's a slam done marketing wise right just the merchandising alone for that franchise because they're literally toys yeah exactly it's perfect

It's the same reason they keep making cars movies. It's just merchandise is so ridiculously popular. Because it's just cars and kids love little cars. Cars with faces on them. Who doesn't want that? So creepy. I'm getting all these weird flashbacks to the movie. Like, I completely forgot about it.

Yeah, I forgot about it too. Until just now. I remember being upset when like the whole motivation of that girl doll character, the vintage one, she's like, my voice box is broken. She pulls out this little plastic record thing because it's so old. Like, I don't understand what's really in there. Just this old vintage thing.

She's like, oh, yeah, if I take your voice box, it'll work with my voice. Like, okay, well, how does any of that work? You're a toy from like the 90s. These parts aren't going to be compatible. It was frustrating. So rushed. And then it worked.

I was shocked. I thought it wasn't going to work. Her voice is fine after that point. It's like how they write the straight. to DVD Disney sequels. Aladdin 2 and 3. Like those kind of fucking things. 9 King 2.

9 King 2. Yeah, that's just how they write normal movies now. That's how bad it's gotten. Yeah, it's all about marketing. It's all about advertising. If you get enough hype, it doesn't really matter. You have to plug on all the elements people want to. Yeah.

Recognize Y.P. Throwing Keanu Reeves. Doesn't even matter when he does. Exactly. He's popular right now. Right. People made such a big story about that. I'm like, yeah, he's an actor.

They had Key and Peel. He got cast in a movie. He's doing his job, yeah. Yes. He got paid to be in a movie. Wow. Crazy. Did you know that actors are in movies?

No way. If I had enough money, I could get Keanu Reeves to be in my movie. Yeah. Ralph, you could realistically get Bruce Willis in a movie probably. Probably. Oh, Bruce Wilson's easily. Let me see what I have in my pocket. I could fucking...

Five back. Get him some booze. Yeah. Get him some Trees and a penny. Killer. That's all he wants. Yeah, I don't think we need to talk about this much more, honestly. No, yeah, yeah.

We've been over Pixar a few times on this podcast, but we'll see what happens. Leave them alone. Leave Pixar alone. Yeah, they can't take it. I'll watch, I'll probably watch Onward in theaters. I probably won't watch Soul in theaters. We'll see what another trailer shows, but it just, it seems like it's just going to devolve into something really annoying.

I don't see any of them in theaters anymore because I don't like the audience. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I don't like children either. I've seen a Pixar movie. No. They're very loud. They're very loud.

And I don't mind because it's a children's movie. I can't tell them to be quiet. They're enjoying themselves. Yeah, cool. I'm just like, I am going to watch it from my house and enjoy myself. Have you ever, um, because if a kid's movie is popular enough, they actually screen them at like the adults-only theaters, too, like the ones where you can buy alcohol. Well, I guess I could do like a late showing.

Like, they still have those. I don't think kids would go or as many kids would go. Yeah, I don't know. You'd be surprised. Yeah. There are ones where they serve booze and they can't get in even if it's late. Oh, I'll find one of those. Yeah.

Yeah. We saw a film. We all saw a film in theaters. We were thinking about what was in theaters. We could talk about on the podcast and I don't know. It wasn't a great idea. We watched Doctor Sleep. Spoilers for Doctor Sleep, I guess, if you care about it.

I don't think you should. It's not great. There's some people that like that, I guess. Did it do well at the box office? I don't even know. I don't even fucking know. Check this out. What did you think of the movie?

It'll probably make it the money work. Oh, yeah, because it's based on something else. Yeah, that's one thing you can give props to. At least it's not called The Shining 2 or something. Or like they hammered in a shining story or something. Dr. Sleep, a shining story. Forbes, why Dr. Sleep is a terrifying box office disappointment. Except I'm not going to read that article because it wants me to turn off my ad block.

The budget couldn't have been too high because it's a fairly reserved movie and quite held back. The last section is probably the most expensive sort of element of the movie, I'd say. But I'm sort of with you, Adam. I struggle to call it bad to me. I think it's got a lot of decent individual elements, but it just doesn't come together for me. I think it's way too long. I think it's kind of being torn between two worlds a little bit.

Because I put a review on Letterbox saying that I was kind of bored and it was more Stephen King than Kubrick, which is fine. I have no problem with it being a more direct adaptation of the Doctor's Sleep novel. but it is so deeply tied with the Kubrick movie and it was drawing so much from that film where it was really distracted every time I started starting to get into the sort of thriller aspect because the film isn't really scary

in the same way The Shining was it just kept pulling me back and forward like is this supposed to be like as intense and have like a really strong atmosphere like the original Shining because it really didn't move the needle at all for me in terms of that kind of stuff. Like, it had some creepy kind of ideas,

but it's that typical thing where when you have supernatural elements that are explained to the point that it does in this movie, they stop being mysterious or scary in a way to me. It's a real Star Wars episode one of the shining. It got to the goofy sort of level where they were like, yeah, oh, your steam, that's, that she's fucking luck. I can't wait to get more steam. Yeah, I wasn't that much into the steam element.

element. Yeah, it seemed like such a direct adaptation of what I'd imagine the Doctor's Sleep book is like, I have no idea. I can't exactly say, but that's what everyone is saying, like in my comments and when I'm reading about the film, people are saying, yeah, is more King than Kubrick in that sense. I mean, we've had just such an onslaught of Stephen King adaptations. I'm kind of getting sick of the sort of familiar elements of those kind of movies. Yep. Especially when they're like this kind of theme. Like, how many have we had this year alone? There's It Chapter 2.

Oh, yeah. Pet Cemetery. Now this one. Like, it's every horror movie that comes out is a Stephen King, like, novel. Yeah. Yeah, and also kind of like tied into a previously successful adaptation from like the 80s. All three that you listed. Those are the ones that did.

They adapted one of his, one of his like not horror books a few years ago. Like Idraselba was in it. He came out in August. It was like the Dark Tower. Oh, yeah. That was a while ago. I think that was Stephen King. Yeah, that was a while ago.

But, like, they tried adapting those kinds of books, and people don't connect with that as much. They like horror, man. They like horror, yeah. They like it. They like The Shining. I don't think anything about this movie works on its own. The only stuff I was interested in was the connections to the Shining. Like, uh, the whole opening I thought was pretty interesting with Danny and the Shelley DeValle impersonator.

But I didn't enjoy the, any of the, like, new stuff on its own at all yeah did either of you watch uh the haunting of hillhouse no same director no i didn't a lot of people really love this guy what else did he direct hush he did gerald's game which i was a big fan of i know you guys didn't like as much yeah i don't really like that one i don't know if i don't how you feel about adam wingard adam that's how i kind of feel about this guy okay adam wingard's the guy who did the guest right yeah and those yeah that's how i feel about this guy i don't like his movies yeah i don't like i don't like i don't like i don't like Gerald's game. I don't like hush. I think they're both not scary. And I like this, I just didn't connect with

anything in it. The cinematography was pretty good, but that's just because they were trying to mimic the Kubrick movie. If they weren't trying to do that gimmick, it probably would have just been shot like a normal horror movie that you see like in theaters. Haunting of Hillhouse looked similar, I would say, like cinematography wise. There's actually one episode in Hunting of Hillhouse that has like fantastic cinematography. But I have a lot of, I didn't see that movie. I have lot of issues with that show and a lot of issues with this movie. Kind of in opposite ways. The Hunting of Hill House was something where it was 10 hours long and it was a story

that should have been told in two hours. And honestly, if you made a fan edit of that show, you'd have something great. But on its own, I found it to be a very frustrating experience, just blue-balling the entire time. Whereas this movie, I found probably would have worked better as a miniseries. I feel like if you're going to have this universe with, you know, like, oh, everybody's shining and blah, blah, blah, and they each have different powers. And, you know, there's a lot that you could fit in there. And from a production quality standpoint, like how totally all over at the place it is. It also kind of felt like a modern television miniseries.

Mm-hmm. Felt long enough to be one? Went, right. Yep. Totally, it would have worked better if it was longer. Like, it has all these horror and thriller elements. So it kind of would have, they would have had more time to flesh. shit out if they had more time.

Yeah. So there's like shootouts like in the movie. I was like, what the fuck? I thought I was watching a horror movie and then it becomes. Yeah, it's crazy. There's like 10 of these characters that we don't know anything about and they're literally just there to add to the amount of people that are trying to kill this little girl. And it's like, oh no, there's a big conflict because there's so many of them and they're

so powerful and then they all die in the same scene. And we didn't learn anything about them really. It was only the one girl that kind of got developed. barely, you know, if it was a mini-series, you could explore these things further. You could have different concepts, you know, different ideas at play with like how they would be living in this world and, you know, what they'd be doing. I feel like you could turn this into something that would be like six hours long and it would probably be better. For me, though, the, I liked the idea of exploring the kid character from The Shining with an actor as good as you and McGregor and all

the issues he's had. Like, he starts the movie and it's like, oh, he's a really flawed, character and he's clearly got a lot to kind of get over like in his arc and they start and it's going a certain direction and then the middle of the movie happens and he doesn't really like get much development and he isn't really that important particularly it kind of shifts over to the the young girl more as a almost more of as a protagonist for a while and then he does get a wrap up towards the end when he goes back to the house which I'm sure we'll talk about in a second but there just wasn't much to it despite how long the film was

I didn't feel like I really got inside the character's head beyond the most surface level same sort of storytelling at the beginning which and that that to me could have been the interesting element because and they just didn't explore them enough to me like I don't care about all these kids and stuff if you're going to use

your connection to the original movie to get me invested like I will be inherently more invested in that kid because you remember him from the original and it isn't just banking on you he's not going around on like a motorbike with three wheels

it's not like it's not that level but they do just drop the ball in that kind of stuff and that could be because of the novel I really don't know but they chose it's such a like plot heavy movie and they spend so much time developing these villains and I don't know how you guys felt about the villains but the amount

of development they got I know a lot of people are enjoying that aspect of it but to me made them much less frightening to me I didn't like learning that much about them. To me that was like not interesting or important to the story because it's obvious to me that like as soon as you find out they're basically

steam vampires then it's like okay and they need the steam to stay alive or whatever okay like that's all I need I understand like let's go back to the main character let's learn more about him and his like struggle with these weird powers and everything that he has because that's what's so good about

the original shining like it doesn't sit around explaining all of these concepts like it's more of a superhero movie than atmospheric thriller like it just didn't really work for me and it just as it went on it just kept losing me more and more

because there's just nothing really that engaging to me that was happening I wasn't frightened the characters where they were just stuck in one place for a long time nothing was really developing that interesting I didn't really enjoy the performance of Rebecca Ferguson yeah she really didn't work for me

I thought she was so annoying I thought she was a lot over the top yeah really over the top She's the one with the hat, right? Sort of hot topic. Yeah. She's a good actor, too. Like, I've always liked her in movies.

She is. That's why I was shot. She was extra disappointed. She was doing this weird accent that was going in and out. Like, sometimes she was a bit Irish. She wasn't intimidating. No, she was like, she's like, she's a comical evil. Yeah.

The moment the movie lost me in terms of anything, like, frightening was, do you remember the CG baby, like, cry or scream or something? Yeah. I can't remember the exact, sort of early on. on in the movie. I can't remember this is a dream sequence or something, but there is like a weird CG baby. Just like in his bed or something and I said

that looked bad and like didn't hit the way I think it was intending and I'm really not scared. Nothing yet. The only things that hit were when they just inserted things from the shining into the movie. Oh, it's the elevator with the blood. I didn't find those parts to be

piss working at all, honestly. No. Those parts were reminded me of a race by one. I think Ready Player 1 did a better job at being The Shining than this film did. It makes a total way of sense in this movie. Yeah. Well, like the opening, they were doing the same thing again with the, where Daney's, like, driving his bike and there's the carpet, and there's, like, the mute sound, and then it hits

the wood, and it makes the... Like, they just copy all these same things that are supposed to fuck with you from the Shining, and it doesn't work this time. Yeah. Because, like, they've already been parodied and done to death. Like, we all know these tricks. it's just really not scary I don't know what I was supposed to get out of this

the final act of the movie only really works if you've seen the original Shining or have read this book I assume or the original books because all the characters that show up they're not really explained or set up in the movie like in that last shot where yeah where they kind of crowd around the villain character to finally defeat her

like it's all just like references to the original and yes that makes sense because they're in the original movie and everything but it's like it's it's strange considering the fact that it is trying to it's my biggest issue it's trying to distance itself from the original and try something new but at the same time fall back on it's so hard yeah because at that shootout i was like okay so it's it is doing something completely different and then right after the shootout they just go back to the shining house and it was like yes this makes sense for this character in terms of like completing his story his arc and overcoming his

faults in a way and coming to terms with himself and that's another underused aspect of like the steam vampires, they're like addicted to steam and um you and McGregor's dealt with like

various addictions and whatnot like that should have been the the heart of the movie to me exploring that a bit more and that sort of parallel between the villains and him or something like something like that something more than than what happened in the film because like

I don't know I don't want to sound like so hyper-negative because people are enjoying this movie. Like, this is one of those ones where people are enjoying it way more than, like, the metascore or the things dictate. Sure. Like, on that level. So I want to, like, be clear about, because there were things I did like. Apparently, I missed, like, the best sequence in the movie because I needed to pee where there's, where Rebecca Ferguson's lying on, like, the top of the bus. Oh.

She like dream something's over to... Yeah, when... I saw the very end of it, so... Okay, when she got her hand fucked up. She, like, flies through space or something? Yeah, that was a good scene. It has its moments. It was kind of interesting.

Like, it's a cut above, like, countdown or, like, some god-awful horror movie that's released in theaters. There is some artistry to it. Yeah. It's just really bland. I think the bar is pretty low for horror movies, honestly. I know a lot of people get upset when I say that, but... Because, like, recently, it's just, I've seen so many good horror films.

From, like, A-24, you're talking about, though. 824, but just, it follows, too, Babaduke. I mean, it follows was also really? But it was, like, yeah. Was it really? I don't think it was. I thought it was. It wasn't really.

I don't think. It might not be, I don't know. I guess someone in Reddit will let us know. I know A-24 did his next movie, which they didn't release. Yeah. Oops. Whatever. But, like, it's just, we should not be expected.

something this bad at this point. Yeah. We've had great horror movies this year, even if you want to count the lighthouse, which is like a crazy psychological avant-garde horror movie. When I was saying that, though, about it not being a horror movie,

like, people got all angry at me for like saying, well, okay, then treat it for what it is. It's a thriller. Treat it like a thrill. But it's like, you're clearly trying to scare me. There are multiple points where it's framed in a way. There's lots of jump scares. And it's based on...

It's a sequel to The Shining Movie. at least in part. And that film is terrifying. Yeah. Like, and so it has, it's creepy at the very least. It has a really memorable feeling about it.

It's uneasy. It's all wrong, like intentionally in the best way possible for horror. And if they tried to channel it here, I don't think they really achieved it. It's, it's frustrating because it's a film that is simultaneously trying to capitalize off of,

the original Kubrick film while ignoring everything that made it work so well. Like there's way too much in it that's just like editing choices or way too like modernized kind of like jump scary and like really cheesy manipulative music and like the effects don't look great. I mean like they would be more passable for a miniseries which is another reason why I think it would have worked better in that sense. Like people are more forgiving to those sorts of things when it's not like a movie in theaters you know whenever they were stealing the steam off of people that never looked real it was always like oh computer effects you know like it was it was just really annoying i think just conceptually there's something so goofy about that as well oh yeah it looked

so silly it is a crack villain like backstory it was more of a superhero movie than like a horror movie to me it was it was like an x-men movie yeah it kind of seemed like that at points for for sure. Yeah, it was very frustrating. I don't like how the characters were really, really, really stupid in ways that only existed to advance the plot. Like, there's no reason why that little girl should have been at her home while they were doing the second, the second depoy thing. Yeah, that's exactly what I thought. I was like, the whole second house of movie wouldn't even happen. Why are you there when the movie is already explicitly stated that they know where you live.

They found you there before. And now you're just hanging out at your home, probably with the door unlocked, based on how it was shown. Your dad died. Now you're kidnapped. There were four of you that came up with this plan. You could have just rented a hotel. What's your deal?

A police station? She could have gone to a police station. Anywhere. Literally anywhere else. These crazy people are trying to chase me and kill me. Anywhere else. little quirks where like they sort of dark night rised it where the other alcoholic character who's like recovered when he first meets you and McGregor he's like yeah i know i know i know you

just yeah i know everything about you come on come stay here i'll give you this like you can you can i'll vouch for you you can you can rent this place where i also live and said what what i thought that was going to be that i thought it was going to be reveal that he was he had the shine as well or something and that would have like sort of explained that a bit like if he could like sense it or something like that that's what I was expecting me

it was like oh no I guess he could just read that he's an alcoholic and he relates to that so I think maybe he had a little bit like they were saying earlier because they're like yo everybody has a tiny bit

of the shining or something you know you just have a really lucky day most people just think they're lucky but in reality it's like a tiny bit of the shining some people have more shining than others even McGregor drank so much apparently

that is shining is not as good as used to be but didn't they reference that? Yeah it was like numbed What the fuck is going on with this? It's not scary when you do that. They numb the kid when she's like been kidnapped So she can't like communicate Yeah

I found it to be Barely below the bar for what I would enjoy Pretty much the whole movie And then at the end it was just a gigantic cluster fuck the last half hour was literally just, remember the Shining? It was so frustrating every single scene. When he was walking past the door

that like Jack Nicholson did the Here's Johnny thing at and they showed the clip. Just like, oh yeah, remember? Yeah, they just took it way too far. And it was a jump scare too. It was like a jump scare flashback. Yeah.

The whole following him up the stairs. Like, what the hell? Yeah. The whole setting is... That setting does all the work for you. It's a creepy-ass place. So I was really expecting if they were going to go back there to show us something new there,

you know, not just remind us of everything that happened. Because that's what I was really anticipating was like, okay, this director, I really liked, like, Gerald's game, whatever it was called. I thought they... Because I'm quite easy to scare, so it's amazing this film didn't scare me in any way.

And I thought that film had some, like, really creepy. elements of like the like bottle movie type like that kind of thing going on and I thought maybe I'd see some waves of that in in the movie but by the time it got there it fully lost me because it was just hey it's the blood elevator hey it's the twins hey it's the why does why is the film so obsessed with the the old lady in the in the bath because it's an iconic scene and they have to spam it ends with the same music, the same fucking credit music even. Yeah.

The midnight, stars and you. It's just like nothing, it does. It does on its own. Yeah. Completely reliant off of a better film. Yeah. No, but it's not horror. It's a thriller, so. It doesn't really matter either way.

It doesn't work well as either, in my opinion. You're right. Super cheesy. Super, super cheesy the entire time. Very difficult to take things seriously. Yeah, you say that the villain characters had too much screen time I still don't feel like they were

really properly developed most of them. They just got a lot of screen time. Especially the one lead villain and all these other characters like I don't know anything about you. Really? The one girl who says she's 15 but looks like she's 30

we got a little bit of that but that's about it. But their motivation is such a like tired really we're doing this again Like the villain who wants to live forever, like eternal type thing. That's why I say if it reeled back and made it more so you sort of had to read into why they were doing this stuff. And we weren't constantly always seeing them. And they were like kidnapping kids and you didn't really see it as often.

That to me would be way more frightening because the mind is what makes these horror films scary. Yeah. It comes at night. It's what I'm looking for from horror that even the original shining to an extent. Like, it doesn't make you scream every five seconds. It just, you're unsettled. You don't know, like, what's around the corner. And when you are showing something, it's just off enough.

Like, the creepiest thing in that movie to me is that weird, like, they're in masks and, like, giving him a suck job in, like, one of the rooms. It's just like, sorry party. And weird. That's stuck in my fucking brain as a kid. Yeah, because it is disturbing. Yeah. And there isn't anything disturbing about sucking steam out of people. and flying around with dreams and shit.

Like, it's corny. Now that I think of it, I feel like these villains, especially the main villain, probably would have fit perfectly in the 2019 Hellboy remake. I feel like they fit better there than in The Shining, you know?

It's like almost contradictory when you're trying to capitalize off of the Kubrick movie. I don't know if either you saw the shitty miniseries in the 90s, The Shining. No. This film is better than that. That's the one more accurate.

It's god-awful. It seems better than that. It's so bad. Very boring. This is still a cut above really bad horror movies. Yeah. So I can see why some people like it. There's some value to it here and there.

Yeah. Absolutely. And all the parts where they were just copying the Shining, those were pretty good. They did a good job. I didn't like that. Yeah, I mean, either. I mean, technically, they just, they did an accurate job. replicating the movie. They got the carpet pretty accurate. They got the doors. Like, it looked good.

It's just at service of nothing. Yeah, it's at service of we need to sell this movie because the actual movie, it doesn't work on its own. It just keep cutting to the shining. It's like the horror equivalent of reference humor in those Friedberg-Seltzer movies or whatever. Exactly. It's just like, remember this? It's just a reference. Like, you're not doing anything with it. But when they're slowly walking up the stairs I've seen treehouse of horror And like yeah We've seen all these things before It's not scary anymore

It's like poetry it rhymes That's why they do Oh God George Georgie boy All right What would you What would you guys give it out of ten I think I'm done talking about this

It's brutal Two out of five Yeah I give it the same two out of five Oh I gave it a three Oh wait but you But yours is a four Never mind I'm so tired You gave it three out of ten.

Yeah, three out of ten. Where is it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so tired. It was a four for most of the movie, but then the last half hour brought it down a point. Yeah, I was like that too.

Like, I was between a two and a three, but the last third, I was like, okay. There's no way I can recommend this. Yeah. Like, it got so bad. I was wondering if part of the issue was that, what's the director's name again? Mike Flanagan? Yes. he edited the movie didn't he as well

it might have improved the movie if someone else edited it and was more brutal with some of the unnecessary expansions in the film that could have just been cut out and like why why was that that character that side character who was also like an ex-alcoholic or whatever why was he in it so much like what was the purpose aside from the flat thing

because he just gets killed and there's no really emotional gut punch to that it's not effective particularly It's just like, you and McGregor's like, oh, I guess he's dead now. That's convenient. Now I can go to the Shining House and not have someone helping me. Yeah. There was a lot of it just seemed unnecessary. Just pick, pick one.

Either do your own thing or do the Shining. Either make a mini-series and explore everything thoroughly or cut it down to make it a acceptable movie length with good pacing. It was just in between on all these different aspects and didn't work great. Yeah, we're pretty much all on the same page. Yeah. I guess we do a movie recommendation thing, Alex. Right.

Yeah, so I recommended Naked Lunch, 1991's Naked Lunch, directed by David Cronenberg. And I feel like a lot of the movies I wind up having to explain the plot of also happen to be like the most crazy, bizarre things all time. I'll do my best. You recommended it this time.

Yeah, yeah, true. So the main character is Peter Weller, who Robocop gets addicted to, well, he's a bug, an exterminator. And he gets addicted to the substance that he exterminates bugs with, which sort of makes him hallucinate aliens. And his typewriter starts talking to him. And it's like an insect with like an ass that talks. and he sort of goes country to country, he kills his wife by accident, and he's kind of dictating this character's descent into madness

from what is a clear allegory for crazy drug use, because that's most of the plot, to be honest. Like, you just have to watch it. It's one of those. It's not super plot heavy. It's very strange, because this is based on a very famous, novel, very, very famously controversial novel. After I watched the film, I was like, yeah, okay, I really enjoyed that, but I got to be

honest, didn't fully understand or really get what was happening there. And then you start reading about the movie, if you're interested in that sort of thing. And I watched that documentary. I forgot to note down what it was called. Burroughs the movie. Yeah, Burroughs the movie, yeah. That was the writer of the original novel. And you kind of figure out, that the film is semi autobiographical but I'm really losing it today we're all fucking

it's done yeah we're all about to die and having to describe this movie as well I was just like autobiographical but yeah autobiographical sort of story about

what the writer of the novel was kind of going through and doing at the time he was traveling around the world he really did kill his wife. That was insane for me to find out. That actually happened. Yeah. So, so, yeah, and it adds so much context to the movie. It adds so much sort of depth to the movie, to me anyway, which, which led to me

kind of falling in love with it after reading everything about it. So what did we think about it? I had no idea what to make of it. Oh, really? So you go ahead, Adam. Yeah. Well, I liked a lot. By the end of it, I did enjoy it, but like, like, your reaction the first time, Alex, I was like, what the fuck was that? It's entertaining. Yeah, it's definitely entertaining. And upon further research and even watching it the first time, I picked up on that, like,

meta level with the author. I'm like, is this about the author as much as it is about this character and what he's going through? And yeah, that totally worked for me. Very entertaining. But yeah, Adam, you go on. I loved it throughout, to be honest. I don't think that there was any point that I wasn't really on board

with it. But I was aware that this was pretty much just an autobiographical take on, you know, addiction, drug use, et cetera, from this writer who I already knew was like a heroin addict. And so this, this. And much more too. Oh yeah. And this, the book coming out in the 50s, obviously very controversial. It apparently got banned in several states and countries for violating sodomy laws or something. Like, yeah, it was held to trial. Yeah, huge influence. I wasn't aware that the accidentally killing his wife thing was real. So that was a gigantic surprise after watching the film.

I feel like the criterion special features actually provided more information about this writer than the Burroughs of the movie documentary did. That seemed like something kind of like more for the fans of his work. Yeah, I didn't get that much out of it Because I already read his whole Like wiki and the movies Wiki and the books wiki So watching the film or the documentary I didn't get that much more out of it as you say

Yeah There's a lot that I love about this movie It's it's it kind of has vibes Similar to Ah, what's that movie? Scanner Darkly I felt Yeah In terms of how it's presented

Yeah, I really I really love movies That deal with these kinds of losing your mind insanity addiction kind of themes and I love how many different things you can do with it it's never going to have any kind of like typical structure and I think that would probably be off-putting to a lot of people if they're expecting like oh I'm watching a movie it's like you are but it's more experimental I guess in that sense like you're not supposed to have the same sort of beats or like satisfying payoffs or conclusions that a typical story would have Yeah, because Burroughs, when he wrote the novel, he wrote it in such a way where he intended so that you can read it.

Yep. You can read the chapters in any order, which is a bizarre concept and a crazy out there idea. And of course, like, adapting that kind of novel into a movie is an insane task. It was thought to be impossible. Yeah, man, he said it would be done. Yeah. It was like watchman. It's like on that list.

Yeah. But in under two hours, I think David Cronerberg did it. Yeah, I want to see. Yeah, I think it might be my favorite Cronenberg, to be honest. I don't know how you guys feel about that. I love the puppets, the actual typewriter and the giant alien who would talk to. Yeah, and genuinely disgusting, too, in Cronenberg fashion. Like, the asshole was so disgusting to look at.

And funny, too. There's, like, this sick sense of humor to it. But it's also disgusting. Yeah, and he's, like, rubbing this fucking powder on it. It's like, oh, yeah. Rub it on my lips. Yeah, and they kept saying, it must be done real tasty.

It's just really strange dialogue like that. Yeah, but it works. It's very charming. I love in these kinds of, like, the main characters are losing his mind, drug-related movies. I feel like a lot of the kind of like setups and payoffs, like these little tiny callbacks to really subtle things,

are parts of those movies that I really enjoy. Like, you know, he notices that his wife says the same thing as the cockroach or they have certain references to, I guess, places that are referenced a few times in the film. Like there's these tiny little, I guess, seeds that are being planted where something seems familiar and you're not exactly sure why sometimes or almost conspiratorial elements where there's these things connecting and you don't know why. but it kind of implies this sense of significance to it. Makes it a bit more like eerie and alluring. Yeah. Yeah, because he's just totally losing his mind. Like it has no idea what's going on.

And he's convincing himself through these, these like conspiratorial superstitious events. Like the, that scene where he finds the, like, pubic hair and nails buried in a plant pot. There's like loads of weird, specific little details like that are like, their dreamlike details where it was something that would happen in a dream or on like a weird trip or a drug

experience where you're just like this is so this is so specific this is so like coming from a place like that it really does drive that just insanity that the main character is going through and I loved his like deadpan delivery for the most

of their movie yeah every line list in character to me perfect for the tone especially because of the setting because it's set in the 50s they have a certain cadence the way they speak and he was like he reminded me a lot of um it was a sardonic cast recommended movie actually the cohen brothers one where he's a man who wasn't there billy bob yeah billy bob thornton in that movie it was a similar sort of character archetype were quite quiet a bit sort of witty in the responses very very dry yeah i really enjoyed his

performance and and he did have moments of like vulnerability and yeah some expressive sort of uh horrible things to act to add a bit arranged to his character. I really loved the vocabulary in this movie. Exactly, yeah. I feel like it's one of those films

where even if I didn't know it was based off of a book, I would probably infer that just by the vocabulary of the film. It is a movie that's, you know, not just about drugs, but it's also about writing.

You know, it's very, I guess, kind of like introspective when it's I guess in terms of it being autobiographical and I'm not you know I would have to watch it a few more times to get everything that it's trying to say I guess

but it did really connect with me in a lot of ways that I really enjoyed I feel like I definitely got a lot out of a first watch for this movie yeah I'm with you it's the kind of thing where you can see how a film adaptation could just fall flat on its face like I think of something like cloud atlas

Do you remember that movie? Yep. Like where the novel is just known as this like just expansive. Like no one kind of did that this and the movie like really didn't live up to it. But here they're creative enough. The pacing is quick enough. The scenes are interesting enough. The setups are good enough.

The puppets are amazing. And they do the really interesting creative things. Like there's that scene where Ian Holm is walking around. Bilbo. And yeah, Bilbo is walking around. And I was noticing his audio isn't matching up with his mouth right now. And then like it became part of the story. That was actually happening from the main character's perspective.

And I was like, that's so clever. I really love details like that because it's like a, it's a payoff for people who are paying attention. I was really watching it. I was like, I might have to note this down that the ADR wasn't very good here or whatever. But it was actually like part of it. Yeah, the film's basically fucking with you, which is great. Yeah. Because it really puts you into the mind of the main character or everything's fucking with him.

Or at least he feels that way. Yeah. I love the color palette of the movie. Lots of weird yellow kind of color. And then... Dark green, orange. And then, yeah, when he leaves the country at the end, the color palette completely changes.

And, like, that's all you need to know. That's all the information you need to understand that he's in a different place, which is really cool. And I was actually impressed by some of the scope of the production at certain points, considering estimate a budget of only about 16 million so fairly small and the film was a dud financially and I went to see it like surprise surprise but that doesn't really matter how do you mark it in quality but yeah like that there's the specific moment where they had all the mugwump

alien characters all kind of hung upside down being milked again and there's like a wide shot where you see so many of them and I was like wow they they really put the attention to detail in there with Yeah. And that was a disturbing, disturbing moment. I just, I love these creatures. I thought the scenes where the main characters

communicating with them were, you didn't even doubt for a second that he was talking to another character. Like with a, just the detail in those animatronics with like the hand and the way the hands move and all the different motion in the huge puppet. It was very impressive to me just, just even on that level alone. Mm-hmm.

Just, just to like explain how out there, the author of the book was like this guy he like believed in magic and stuff there's a whole section on his wiki about his magical beliefs so I'll read you a little bit of it

it was like this this is something else so boroughs had a long-standing preoccupation with magic and the occult dating from his earliest childhood and was insistent throughout his life that we live in a magical universe as he himself explained

get this in the magical universe there are no coincidences and there are no accidents nothing happens unless someone wills it to happen the dogma of science is that the will cannot possibly affect external forces and I think that's just

ridiculous it's as bad as the church my viewpoint is the exact contrary of the scientific viewpoint I believe that if you run into somebody in the street it's for a reason among primitive people they say that if someone was bitten by a snake he was murdered I believe that

a little bit more since the word magic tends to cause confused thinking, I would like to say exactly what I mean by magic and the magical interpretation of so-called reality. The underlying assumption of magic is that the assertion of will as the primary moving force in the universe, the deep conviction that nothing happens unless somebody or some being wills it to happen. To me, this has always seemed self-evident. From the viewpoint of magic, no death, no illness, no misfortune, accident, war or riot is accidental. There are no accidents in the world of magic.

So this guy, he was a character, at the very least. Sounds like a drug addict to me. Too much fuck-fucking hippie. And in that documentary, there are tons of clips of him just like monologuing and reading excerpts from his book. And he has conviction, I'll give him that.

And the ideas he was coming up with were very lofty and strange like that. But also it just, it makes it make so much more sense. Like the film. Yeah. When you find out all of this about the writer, it really does add a lot. I was imagining if this wasn't based on a book and this film was just standalone, if it would work as well?

It's almost like a solo where the context is so important to it working. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he's quite an interesting character for sure. The movie is an interesting character as well. I think it's great that Cronenberg captured just how. much personality there is. And it really feels like, you know, you watch the movie and then you watch the guy's interviews

and it's like, okay, I get it. Yeah, and it seemed true to the original kind of story. It didn't try to spin it in any sort of, you know, like manipulative way. It was just very, like, it was Cronenberg's voice, but it still seemed very true to the essence of what made the original story what it was. Yeah, he's always been great with practical effect

and animatronics. Like those things are really, really well suited for this film. They all work really, really well. I love the part in the movie when he crushes the bug with the shoe. Oh, yeah. It looks fucking great. It's like this slimy, just excellent effects. Tons of great effect.

And it was cool, too, because this is not, like, it's just not that kind of movie. It's like a drama, noir, like, mostly just dialogue and characters interacting. And it has, like, these crazy effects and moments. that that are so goofy. It really helps with the pacing and kept me invested in it. It really hopes, yeah. Yeah, it keeps entertaining. What's really sad is you see a director like this that has so much experience with practical effects.

And then in some of their more recent films like Maps to the Stars, somebody gets lit on fire next to a swimming pool and they use CG fire and it looked terrible. Like fire has been perfected in CG for a long time. Right. Like the fire looked pretty convincing and the Hills Have Eyes remake in like 2004. Maps to the Stars was like 2015. It looked terrible. The guy's next to a pool. Just do it practically.

Get a stunt double. You can't tell who it is anyway. It's like what you're this director from the 80s that did everything practically. Is it really cheaper to make CG fire than to just get somebody some random stunt double to be like, okay, I'll be lit on fire for like two seconds and then just jump into the pool. I don't know. It looks like shit. It's just lazyness too. It really like, uh, why would I?

laziness. Why would we waste our time shooting a guy on fire? George Lucas approach. It's not the point of the story. Right, exactly. That's what was so impressive to me about the variation of the puppetry as well, because even when they had multiple puppets for the

main typewriter creature. Oh yeah, they had like 13 of them. Yeah, and there's the part where the part where the typewriter is kind of joined in on its head and he's typing on its head and that's like a separate puppet to the one earlier. And there's like, there's so many different little details and that weird thing that looked straight out of like a

Geiger painting that was like humping the humping yeah it reminded me of a face hugger yeah yeah for sure yeah this is the type of movie where i would almost be expecting it to get really repetitive but i found it pretty entertaining throughout like i never really knew where it was going and you know the variation of all these different practical effects. Like, those were in the movie frequently enough, and they didn't just do the same thing over and over with them, that it really helped my experience.

Yeah, and the dialogue is very good. Oh, yeah. It's a really memorable. The dialogue's great. I kind of had that repetitive experience with it, but I think it's because I saw it. This is just my first time seeing it, too. I literally just watched it no reading anything or afterward.

I just want to experience what it's like not knowing anything. And yeah, I literally had no idea what the fuck to make. of it. Which is understandable. Yeah. Maybe upon further viewings, like now that I know what it is, it would help. I think it is beneficial to know a little bit about the writer before watching it. Like, what kind of movie it's trying to be? I heard how crazy it was. It's like, let's get a fresh perspective. Let's look up nothing. And then 15 minutes in, fucking bug typewriters, it's like, all right. I don't know what's going on.

Strap in boys. Yeah, strap in. a butthole roach. Yeah, there's, on one of the special features, they were talking about how, I think it was actually Cronenberg making this analogy, talking about how the talking asshole, like not just the practical effect,

but like the monologue about the talking asshole, is supposed to be reflective of like, kind of like two halves of the same mind in terms of like what is socially permissible and acceptable to say versus what is, grotesque and true, like this, you know, almost like the devil on your shoulder kind of thing or like an internal monologue and internal struggle. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot, a lot to read in, too, about this movie. I saw a great description of what this movie is. I saw it described as a head movie, sort of like a race ahead. Not, you know, like a race ahead, it just happens to have head in the title. Yeah. It's all seemingly You know

Within someone it's it's personifying someone It's allegorical Yeah Yeah yeah yeah That the setting and all of it is like just to Kind of ground you In the themes it's exploring It's not really really happening

In that way Yeah that is a cool That is a cool way to look at it And I definitely got that from it too What did you think of the music? Love it It's great Yeah

Really sax heavy Really chaotic Yeah, I love the opening credits too, like the, just the design of them. It was like really creative. Howard Shore. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then they just got some sex soloist to play over a bunch of it. Worked really well.

Oh, really? That's what they did. Yeah, really added to that just chaotic tone of it. Yeah, and also kind of like the noirish elements too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because it being almost like a 50s like, yeah, like a noir like Runda. Like that, night in the city. prowler like a jazz heavy score yeah it was really cool i really like the voice of the uh mugwump

and other characters i like that it was the same voice for every single one of them even though they were like different characters because it's almost it's almost like bringing this element of like internal dialogue in a sense clearly something in his head yeah adds a bit of like sense to it so you can sort of like break it down and kind of of figure out a little bit if you're if you if you if you're like ralph and you just went and completely blind it gives you little little keys a little details that you can keep track of and try and understand bits about it i watched this uh with i think like four other people and everybody really enjoyed it nobody uh nobody was like disappointed or pissed off by it although

i could imagine you know depending on the type of person there's people that would probably just be like this is bullshit. It's not a movie for everybody, obviously, but I thought it was great. Yeah, you'll probably know if you're going to like it after the first scene with a like puppet monster thing. If you say there's a talking butt hole. That'll weed out a lot of people. It's not.

If you can handle a talking butthole then. Yeah. I don't even have much more beyond that because it is just, it is one of those experience movies on top of the, the backstores. story element where over time you will probably read more and more into it maybe even read the original book because it's been recommended to me before but I don't know I don't know how you could resist even reading up about the film after watching it honestly yeah yeah I was going to say something and then I forgot what I was going to say the ratings if we let's do that

we're all shitting her brains well I liked it I didn't know what to get out of it really but it was thoroughly entertaining. I would like to see it again at some point. I'm going to give it a three out of five for now. I couldn't decide on a number rating particularly. It doesn't really matter that much at the end of the day to me, but

I reckon a four stars or maybe potentially a five if I like it the same amount on a rewatch. Yeah, I'd give it an eight out of ten. How would you guys say this compares to other Cronenberg movies because I enjoyed this one more than any other one that I've seen honestly. He made History of Violence, right? I think that's my favorite one. Yeah, from him. That would probably

be my second favorite, I think. Did he do the fly? Yeah, he did the fly. I wasn't a huge fan of that. I love the fly. I love the fly so much. And that's like a great horror movie in that it's mostly just a character study. And then the last 10 minutes, it becomes that horrific, grotesque, Cronenberg that you know. But most of it is just about Jeff Goldblum and like, how. power kind of corrupts him it's fucking excellent it's so good it's like it's not it's linear it's not like a yeah very different yeah exactly very different experiences becomes a bug it's very like crazy about it yeah and then he gets well i don't want to yeah no spoiling it's it's one of those pop culture movies like i think you're spoiled for the movie by watching like well you know he's gonna become a fly yeah yeah so fly part is is the spoiler. Yeah.

All right. Thanks for the recommendation. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah, I'm really glad I watched it finally. Yeah. Question time. Right, let's move on to some questions from the sardine community.

Huh? Ugh. I saw someone comment that like, um, by the way, guys, uh, sardine is probably a bit nicer than sard, because sard might be construed. drew a certain way.

But yeah, if you want to leave your own questions for us to answer, head over to the Sardonicast Reddit, where there's a suggestion thread that Ralph would pin, where you can leave us a question asking whatever we want, whatever you want. Let's start with this one. It's only for Adam, but I think it will be an interesting discussion. No, no, no, no, trust me. From Santiago 1106.

Hey, Adam, can you explain bagged milk? Oh, that's like, That's like an Eastern Canada thing. So it's not like... Do you not have bag of milk where you were? No. I don't think most of Canada does that actually. There's like some places in Ontario.

Well, look it up. Like do a Google search. So instead of like cartons in grocery stores, they sell milk. Milk in bags. Like a kind of like a plastic. Oh, for like the environment or something? No, I don't know if... That would be.

a bad excuse plastic bags for the environment I'm just trying to figure out why no yeah it doesn't make any sense I don't know why it's a thing yeah I have no idea like you can't close it properly so you've never seen

you've never seen bagged milk in the wild I've seen it at a grocery store in eastern Canada I think but yeah it's not it's not like super common but it's like Canada is like the only place that does it

so like I I've seen pictures of people storing it. So you'd have like, one of those kind of like, I guess, oval-shaped juice jugs or whatever, like a plastic juice jug. And then you put the plastic bag in the juice jug and then snip off the corner and then like, then you can pour it. But then I'm thinking like, then you just need like a clip or something to keep it sealed. You don't want to just leave the milk exposed that entire time. I don't get it either. What's wrong with the recyclable carton?

There's nothing wrong with a recyclable curtain at all. I don't understand why it's a thing. I'm as perplex as you. That's the biggest problem. So apparently the advantage is cheaper to produce and easier to store. They're stackable and take up less space.

As if you, like, how much milk am I keeping it in my fridge? I guess for warehouses. I guess for the grocery store. I guess for the grocery stores it's better. Not for me. Is there like a lot of milk related cuisine in a canada or something that you need to store vast amounts of milk? I don't think so.

I think the French use more milk in their cuisine than Canadians. So I have no idea. I couldn't even tell you which specific provinces have it. But I don't think it's a lot. I think most of Canada does not have bagged milk. It's so funny to me. It is bizarre. That's one of those famous things about Canada for some reason.

It's just the bagged milk thing. Just why. Doesn't make any sense. Comment below if you can justify bagged milk. Yeah, genuinely, I want to see you that. Okay, seeing as that one was aimed for Adam, let's do an inverse one that's for me and Ralph Morcer. The Eur show asks,

Alex and Ralph, what are your favorite movies that Adam has given a six out of ten? Oh, God. That's funny. I've got an answer if you want to think, Ralph, for a minute. There's a lot to choose from. You want to go through my eye, MDB ratings or something? I think I can actually filter it to you guys.

Well, I can go on letterbox and see your ratings under it. Because someone, it's not, you don't run it. It's like an unofficial thing. But it's the same ratings. Yeah, exactly. So I can just do that. Yeah. The obvious choice for me is Spiderverse.

I love that movie. Yeah, I was just about to say, is Spiderverse, what did you give that? Six out of ten? Yeah, I gave it a six. The six. I'm comfortable with that rating. I'm very comfortable with it. and you should be

we love it though closer to a seven and a five my opinion is right you're wrong nitpicking that's fight dude you are nitpicking and biased I win bye bye

that's the mean yes that's that's the main one for me like I can't really think of any others that way I can't believe he's done this sort of stuff

for a while people were really pissed off my six out of ten for Apocalypse now but that's because I only saw the Redux version when I was like 15 and it was like three and a half hours long or some bullshit so I watched the

final cut in theaters when it came out recently and I bumped it up to a 7 and I feel like if I watched the theatrical cut I would probably give it an 8 I don't understand some of those scenes don't need to be there but a lot of it's really great I like

I like first reformed I think way more than you did I think I gave that at least a 7 yeah I think you can gave it a seven. Yeah. So, I don't know. Spiderverse is a good answer.

Spiderverse. Sticking with that. Yeah. What's the six out of ten you got the most backlash four at the top of your head? Most backlash four. That's a good question. First thing in your head. Well, it would have...

I mean, Toy Story 3 is one that I think I gave a six out of ten. I think inside out... I don't know. I might have given that one a five, actually. Do people get a... upset about like six out of tens? Yeah, because my rating system's a little different

you know, and so people see six out of ten as like super negative for some reason because they're used to IGN ratings where everything's a nine or else it's terrible. It's not even worth getting if it's an eight. Yeah, I mean like there's some six out of ten movies that I really, really enjoy.

There's some six out of ten movies that I don't enjoy that much. But, you know, I try to try to have my rating be, you know, a mix of not just personal enjoyment, but what I think are like the, you know, like the technical qualities, like the elements of the film, the acting, music, cinematography, writing, et cetera. And I can understand that even if something really, really works for those elements, that doesn't mean that I'm going to connect to it personally. It usually ends up being superhero movies.

People get the most. Yeah. Like passionate. A lot of superhero movies. No, regardless of the rating. Yeah. Unless you love it. Are there any other types of movies now?

But that's just what movies were. Yeah. Yeah, I think people were really upset at a six out of ten for, I think, Captain America, the third one, whatever that was. Civil War. Civil War. I was going to say Infinity War. I knew that wasn't the right title.

There's a few different wars. Yeah. Yeah. Civil War was, I think I gave that one a six out of ten. People were mad when I changed. my Joker rating to a six out of ten but you guys all gave it a six so yeah yeah we got shit for that one yeah exactly yeah people weren't happy about that one yeah yeah but yeah just like you don't have to agree with every single thing we say like it's fine you can like whatever you like

yeah how do you stomach people that you disagree with people you disagree with are the enemy that's why you listen to other people though right so you can hear something different I only ever listen to myself. Yeah. Life would be pretty boring then. Yeah. And it's just a feedback loop. You don't want that.

You want someone to tell you that Gemini Man is a great movie. I think a lot of people also get pissed off at my 6 out of 10 rating is because it is a fairly common rating that I give. But it actually makes sense when you think about it. Well, I would say most movies are probably a lot worse. but the types of movies that I watch, the types of movies that will make it to theaters and I see an ad or I know enough about it

that actually it's interesting to me and I want to see what it's like. Most of those aren't going to be five or lower, right? Chances are I'm good enough at knowing what I'll enjoy that things will be at least, you know, a bit above the bar, even if they're not like exceptional.

Mm-hmm. So. Yeah, I can see that. I think it makes sense. Yeah, it does make sense. Okay. Obvious communist has one for us. Are there any movies that you may have enjoyed at one point, but now a ruin due to memes or controversy, etc.?

Hmm. I've had this happen a couple times to me. Yeah. The meme one. Even before this new Joker movie came out, um, Heath Ledger's Joker started getting meamed really heavily, um, a couple years ago. It sort of began. Like the, like, because the gamer, um, memes, like, really rose to, to fame around there.

And of course, the, like, Joker thing was tied in. And then it was kind of distracting to me when I rewatched the Dark Night like a year ago. I just couldn't get it out of my head. I couldn't, it didn't, like, ruin the movie. But it was just there in the back of my mind. It was a little bit, these fucking stupid Joker memes. And the same happened for the new movie. Yeah, I guess so.

I don't really, uh, I don't really get too bothered by, uh, memes, I guess. I don't think I do. Controversy. Like, have you re-watched a Kevin Spacey movie yet? I really, I'm able to just like ignore those parts, really. I'm able to watch a film in a way where I'm not, like, even if I do acknowledge it, even if I'm thinking, man, that guy's a creepy petto or something, like, I still enjoy

Polansky movies. You know, I watched Rosemary's Baby recently, and that was awesome. I mean, I've seen it before, but it doesn't really bother me that much. I'm usually able to separate art from the artist, aside from maybe a couple minor cases. I mentioned this before on the podcast. Yeah, we talked about this. Yeah, Chris Brown. Actors I have.

Although I never really enjoyed his stuff in the first place. Like an actor on a movie, who cares? It's just someone doing a job. They're reading lines. And there's also more people that made the movie is a big factor. Yeah, there's tons of people. Yeah. So to act like it's one voice.

Yeah, the product is in Kevin Space. Oh, one pedophile made this movie, and that's it. So don't watch it. It's a little, it's simplifying it a little bit. Yeah, when they're already multi-millionaires. Are you really hurting them? Kevin Spacey's in it. Yeah, exactly.

Kevin Spacey's in it for like, with decent amount, but he's just, he's acting, he's playing a character. It's like, okay, it's not that distracting. Yeah. And like, if he removes the fact that he's a creep behind the scenes, like, it's a really good action. who got paid to do a job he's an actor he got paid down yeah it's like I don't know if you find out that the person that somebody like made some life-saving cancer cure but they were also a

pedophile do you just throw away the cancer cure like I don't know you can still appreciate things if my plumber if my plumber was like a murderer or something are terrible I wouldn't undo the plumbing in my house I want to undo all the work he did the writer of the novel of the film we just talked about murdered someone and has this is true done worse so yeah I mean

yeah he can't bother us that and we gave his film glowing reviews yeah meanwhile there's tons of nice people like Will Smith and M. Night Shyamalan and we give their movies horrible reviews yeah what about controversies

like the like the life of pie for example with the that pissed me off like being horrificallyly underpaid and so yeah the animation studio of going bankrupt. Did that affect your views on the actual film though?

No. How did you deal with that one? I think it's separate. Because their work was still amazing. Yeah, they did a fantastic job. It just sucks what happened to them. When it's like sausage party or something, where the movie comes out so bad.

Yeah. And it's like, yeah. Or like you learn they tortured those animation people. Apparently they overworked them and paid them not as much as they should have. And the movie just came out like a big piece of shit because the stars and the writers just didn't give a fuck about the actual product. Yeah. That case is way more annoying to me. Yeah, really,

it's very, very rare that my experience of an art form is going to be influenced by that type of thing. I think it's more common for music for me, because what they're selling is supposed to be some sort of like honest reflection. And if the veil is lifted and, you know, if what they're selling is kind of like contradictory to who they are as a person. It's like, okay, well, I don't believe this anymore. I don't believe what you're saying in this song. So that can have an impact. But, you know, a fictional narrative is something entirely different. It can affect the outcome of the movie, too. Like, if everyone's arguing on set and there's like controversy, like I guess with Fantastic Four, then the movie's just going to come out bad. Every classic

novel before whatever year, you know, probably written by a bunch of homophobes, if we're going to be honest, you know, like, you can't just throw away everything, I don't think. You can still appreciate things, even if people are terrible. Yeah, okay. Wow. Look at that. We have two questions from different people. that can just go into each other

because the first one is just for Ralph but I think people would appreciate his brief thoughts on this from the corneest lemur who asks Ralph what do you think of Mr. Robot Season 4 so far the people must know oh it's well I want to stay silent on it

are you enjoying it but I am really enjoying it I'm saying silent because there's an episode that recently came out that was all no dialogue like there was no dialogue in the episode it was a silent episode and that was phenomenal how they were able to pull it off and there's like yeah there's really impressive like technical things going on and the score in that episode was incredible but like overall it's kind of it hasn't won me over completely yet because it's doing something very

different it's more of a it's goofier and it's more like a Christmas everyone every character's like dealing with their demons in a Christmas themed like special. Weird. It's very bizarre. Yes. So it is like very sentimental and corny, but it works because it's Christmas. And there's also this hacker plot going on.

And the actual story has gotten so insane that it's like some fucking Illuminati level shit is going on and Elliot needs to stop it. So it is pretty good so far. I want to see where it goes. Yeah. Yeah, that's my thoughts on it. Yeah. I think people appreciate that. And to expand

on this TV sort of theme. Naju 34 asked do you think it's possible for TV shows to overtake bigger budget movies in the future as in they reach a point

in which they're equal or superior in quality It's already happened You replace them Yeah I mean you can choose examples The Irishman's incredible

That's not it Yeah It's a Netflix movie Coming out Yeah but that's Netflix we're talking about shows though right Like miniseries

Yeah I guess I guess I guess I guess I was thinking more like streaming You know Just like these these studios are not Going to be the big boys in town anymore You're gonna be able to watch great movies and series Just big budget on Amazon or Netflix

They're making a Lord of the Rings show right now Yeah That costs half a billion dollars Yeah That's gonna be fucking crazy Yeah A witcher show is coming out this like a big fantasy thing There is no film that cost that much money

So I'm really going to so what they're going to do. It's so fascinating because when it can be done right, I find it more satisfying just in terms of like, you can have way more in-depth plots,

you can have much more character development. There's a lot you can do in a season of a TV show. And with the production, like it is catching up to the point where you have, like I've mentioned it a couple of times in the last few episodes, but that like Dark Crystal Netflix show, like the production on that was so impressive to me.

I can't, it looked so expensive. Like, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Yeah, it looked better than Doctor's sleep. For more like, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But I, yeah, I was blown away by that show in particular. But then if you are looking for more like serious, dramatic things, you have like Mind Hunter, there's, well, you go, Mr. Robot. There's so much choice. And so much of it is excellent and a lot better in a lot of ways than some of the films, well, a lot of the films that are coming out,

especially when we're seeing the Disneyification of everything and those kinds of smaller stories now have, they've been pushed into a different space somewhat. They're really able to be explored because we're right in the middle of these streaming wars and there's just so much money being pumped into all these creators. So you do get some of this wacky stuff that you wouldn't see on the big screen,

kind of being explored to the same quality or even better. on places like that. It's just a different format. The technology has gotten so good now that you can film these, yeah, you can film these epic things and it looks, you know, excellent because our technology is capable of it now. The cameras at this point, like digital looks just as good as film if you color correct it right. So there's no excuse. You could do fucking anything on television now. And that's not the way it was 15 years ago. You were very limited. Just HBO. So it's exciting. Yeah, HBO. And you would have to pump tons of money in that shit. Yeah. Even your latest project, Ralph, spounds multiple episodes. Golden Hour, yeah, three episodes, and we made it for $7,000.

Because it's like, it's not a testament to me. It's a testament to all of us and the technology that you can just do something, like shoot it all on the street, and it looks good. And you don't have to spend much money on it to get it to look good, because it's just gotten to that point. Yeah. It's exciting time, yeah. Yeah.

There will be a point like 15, 20 years down the road where independent creators will just be able to make like these movie, like big budget movie quality stuff with no money. Because like the Ronins will just get that good and like the lenses will get that good. We're using the GH5? Yeah, GH5S. Okay. Which is like $2,000, right?

The body. You have to get lenses too. Yeah, but yeah. Exactly. Like there's no, anyone can do that. You could just go make a show and put it on YouTube right now for $5,000. Yeah. That's great.

You couldn't do that 10 years ago. Making a no-budget music video. Looks pretty good so far. Yeah, excellent. A lot of tedious editing. Yeah, I think we're pretty much at that point where, you know, the television series and films are comparable. There's great and bad examples of both, so.

Game of Thrones, I think, was groundbreaking in that. Just the scale of it. The writing went to shit, but it really is impressive to see the scale of, like, the sets and how many extras and characters there are in it in the big battles. Yeah. It was more impressive than a lot of fantasy in cinema in the last few years. Yeah. Just on a production standpoint.

And you also were way more invested in those characters. So when those battles did happen, It's like movie quality battles with that character development of television, that slow burn, like you said. And it's really satisfying. People are really engaged in that shit. Not in the same way as they are in movies now. All right. One more question.

Okay, let's end with this one then from B-Dog-7171. You boys have expressed your distaste for tonal shifts within films many times. So I'm interested to know if you can think of any examples of an effective shift in tone atmosphere or even style within a film. Thanks. sardonicates what yeah any Korean movie really like

you're right parasites parenthood did an excellent job with that the only when I get bothered by tonal shifts it's not like oh it's attempting more than one tone it's just when it's either contradictory or just plain doesn't work or when one of them

is done great and the other's done poorly you know it just has to sometimes it's not purposeful it's just yeah it just feels like in the editing room someone didn't know what they were doing. So there's like these comedy moments mixed with serious shit. I feel like most of the time it's just an accident. I'll look at my letterbox list.

What were you saying, Alex? You said one. Danny Boyle has a lot of films that do this. 28 days later. It's kind of a zombie movie for most of it. And then it turns into like a more of a thriller at the end with the army camp, whatever it is. And I'm just saying with sunshine yet. That does almost the inverse.

It's like a sci-fi thriller. and then it sort of turns into horror. It's been a long time since I've seen it, but I remember that happening. And I'm sure there are a few more in his library. He's got some quite good examples of it. Yeah, as long as everything's done well, internal shift isn't a bad thing.

Yeah, I guess the most common thing that makes these shifts kind of fall on their place is often when humor is interjected and it's like really doesn't work if the comedy doesn't end. Korean movies do that really, really well. It doesn't take away from the dramatic serious elements at all, even to have those comedic elements there.

How do they do that? It's just well presented and well written, you know? I think that if comedy winds up taking away from the more serious elements of a movie, either it's because the comedy is just poorly written and it doesn't work and it just makes you hate the movie, or the serious elements weren't all that amazing. to begin with anyway if all it takes is, you know, a different tone in other parts of the film to make you not take the whole thing seriously anymore.

It really depends on how it's done. I think David Lynch does it well, balancing the comedy and the serious stuff. I think like all of his movies do that. But like Lost Highway, I think it's probably the best one, which literally becomes like a different movie halfway through. It focuses on two totally different characters, like an hour into the movie. Yeah. But it was great.

It was really interesting, and it made sense. So it just, it depends. Depends who's doing it. Oh, yeah, I'm with you. Trying to think of more examples. The death of Dick Long is surprisingly dark. But is really, really funny, in my opinion. Are you saying, Alex?

Yeah, it's the type of thing like you notice in the moment, but it's hard to even recall, like, specific examples. All right. Yeah, leave your best in the comments. I don't know. I'm looking through lists now, trying to find more. I just fell back on David Lynch as usual. That's a good answer.

Yeah. He does the best. All right. That's it for question time. So I believe Ralph has a recommendation for us. That's right. Is it for... Are we having the guests on next episode or is this...

Okay, so... Yeah. So I'm going to wreck a movie from 19... 1970, I believe, for another Nicholas Rogue movie who directed Don't Look Now. It's called Performance and Mick Jaggers in it. It's a crime musical avant-garde film. It's psychedelic. It's considered one of the best films to come out of UK of the century.

It is an iconic film. At first, it was shunned because no one liked it. But it has gained a following. So it's definitely going to incite. It's pretty easy, I think. Yeah, it's on iTunes and Amazon in the U.S. Oh, brilliant. And I guess if it's like a UK film,

I'd be surprised to find it. It wasn't available in the UK, but you never know. It could happen. All right. If you don't want to be spoiled for performance, 1970, make sure to watch it before the next episode.

Next episode, we'll be having a special guest, somebody who's been requested a few times. Super Mile 2. Dunkie. We got Dunkin. We already made a donkey reference earlier in this podcast. Yeah.

Very quotable. Very excited. Halo 3, baby. I'm just curious to hear what he has to say about performance. Yeah. I don't know what movie I'm in for. It will incite discussion.

Okay. If you want to support the show, sardonicast.com, sign up for premium. $2 a month. We'll get you these episodes early when they're edited. Also, patreon.com slash sardonicast. Same thing. Also, we got merch. Thank you all for listening to this episode.

Thank you. And get hyped for Dunkie. donkey hype next episode in the meantime let's recharge because we're all a bit brinked yeah yeah fucking I'm gonna either get sleep before the next episode or have a red ball

it won't be the day after my Sunday stream next time though I was playing death stranding and untitled goose game oh connecting all those strands yeah I was trying to 100% the goose game and I did but I was up pretty late It takes like two hours, isn't it? Well, it's two hours on the main story and then another like, I guess, three or so if you want 100% it.

But anyway, thank you guys so much. Bye-bye. See you, buddy.