Sardonicast - Sardonicast #49: The Matrix Trilogy & The Animatrix

Episode Date: December 17, 2019

Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/utRF6kk Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthemoviemaker Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Timestamps: 4:55 - The Golden Globes Nominations 10:49 - The Matrix 35:18 - Animatrix 51:40 - The Matrix Reloaded 1:24:51 - The Matrix Revolutions 1:42:08 - Q&A (Thank you for timestamps "A Hamlin fan") Adam recommends Buffalo '66 for next episode.

Three, two, one. Unfortunately, no one can be told what Sardonicast is. You have to see it for yourself. Hey, everyone. This is Sardonicast. And that was a quote from the Matrix. Yeah. I was almost going to use the way longer one,

but then there was too much back and forth between Morpheus and Neo. It's going to be like, Sardonicest is everywhere. It's all around us, even now in this very room. I should have got Ralph to play Neo, and you could have been Morpheus. Yeah, you should give me a script I'm Adam from your movie sucks We could have just done the whole movie As the intro

Yeah, next time we should do like a skin Yeah, the entire B movie script And every B word is replaced with Sardonicat That's kind of That's kind of unoriginal Adam We gotta think of something a little more creative Okay, yeah, that's all right That's like the default meme

We gotta think Underdog That's a good one Like under the skin Not everybody introduced them ourselves. Let's do that first. Or maybe something really difficult, like a social network. I'm Ralph from YouTube.com slash Ralph, the movie maker, by the way.

I'm Alex from I.E. and I normally wait for Ralph to finish. You guys red-pilled or blue-pilled then? I'm green-pilled. Which ones? Which ones? I'm purple-pilled, actually. Which one that keeps you in the Matrix? Like, the one that's set in the city. Yeah?

Yeah, the blue pill keeps you in the matrix and you wake up Yeah, I like that one more. Being like wow, that was a weird dream. In the red pill you learn Kung Fu. Well, which one would you pick if you were in that

situation? Um, yeah. I'd really highly doubt I would just be swallowing a random pill from a stranger in the first place. I don't think I would get that far. The choice is free will, like you know the truth or you live like the lie but you're happy. The ignorance is

as they say in the first one. Well, I mean, in the movie, he's given, like, no context as to what that means. He's like, oh, you just have to see it for yourself. He doesn't even give him, like, the gist of it. Yeah, they're very secretive. So, like, if I had more context of understanding, if I knew, like, oh, yeah, well, you'd be in a worse world, but you could, like, plug into the Matrix at any point in time and, you know, create your own codes and simulations and basically do whatever you wanted as long as, you know,

It's temporary. Then I'd be like, hell yeah, I could do that. And just, you know. You would want more specifics before. Yeah.

If I knew I could plug into virtual reality at any point in time, then yeah. I'd totally choose the shittier world, the more honest world. But I don't know what I would do without any context. Yeah, I think I'm with you.

Yeah. It's a strange scenario to try and beat yourself. It's very weird. So, uh, The boys are sick, apparently. Everybody's sick right now. Yeah, what's wrong with you, Ralph?

Because I've got a cough right now. I'm sort of like in that stage. It's kind of a little cold. Yeah, it's not too bad. Like my throat is like, it hurts, but that's it. Okay. Yeah. I'm okay.

That time of year. I'll be alive. Yeah. Some people die of the flu this time of year. It's very sad. Yeah. So we got it good. We should be thankful.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. this year. Yeah.

Your jabs? Yeah, I got the flu jab or whatever. Oh, shots. Do you guys not get that? Yeah, I've never heard that. I've never heard it say it said that way. A jab. Holy shit.

This keeps happening. I say a term. It's just normal to say here. And then you guys are like, what is wrong with you freak? Yeah. Well, you, if we had like in Australian on the podcast, it would be much worse. They've got so many weird ways of saying things. A flu jab.

Yeah, you guys are made needles? Yeah, I'm totally fine with needles. Yeah, it doesn't bug me either. If it was called a jab, it would kind of bother me. It's like a solid punch. You don't jab it in your fucking arm. They actually do kind of jab it with some force. Like they have to it.

It's like a little movement that's quick, but jabbing it. Like it's a serial killer stabbing someone. It's quite a violent word to choose. Yeah. Yeah. Which is why nobody chose it except you and your country It's still not as bad as calling biscuits cookies or whatever you guys do That thing's the opposite oh right

Yeah the opposite can I say it again I know I just forget it I just forget it yeah I don't even understand it just let's just move on So before we dive deep into the matrix I guess there's some golden globe nominations out even though the golden globes don't matter I figure we could give our thoughts on just a few of them we won't go through all of them we won't give our thoughts on every movie we'll just say whether or not they feel justified I guess and also anybody waiting for us to talk about marriage story and oh yeah I guess we

haven't talked about the Irishman either and knives out that'll happen That'll happen next episode because I think this one's too packed with like the four Matrix films. And we're recording the next one early anyway and we won't really be watching anything between. Let's see. We got Best Motion Picture Drama nominations are 1917, the Irishman, Joker, Marriage Story, and the Two Popes. Very interesting. That sounds about right to me for like the Golden Globes. The Joker, Joker's like the worst movie on that list.

I haven't seen the two popes yet. Or 1917. Oh, 17, my mistake. It does look quite good. I've heard good things. It looks good by concept. The director is like hit or best. I forget his name.

Sam Mendez. Sam Mendez, yeah. Not everything he makes is great. I think the only thing I really love from him is American Beauty. Best Motion Picture, Musical, or Comedy. Dolomite is my name Jojo Rabbit Knives Out

Once Upon a Time in Hollywood And Rocket Man I don't know I don't like a lot of those Filts a weird selection Or like they're kind of A lot of average mediocre films there

Surely that would just be The Tarantino Awards Yeah I guess so Yeah I watched Dolomite for about 20 minutes last night Before I turned it off And was like

This is so boring I watched the whole thing It was pretty good but I don't know if I would consider it Yeah, it's really like blandly made Yeah And like not fun It doesn't have like that black dynamite

Self-awareness and fun with the filmmaking Yeah That genre it's in And it should have more so Yeah I don't know It kind of sucks I'm just like I don't even I don't find Eddie Murphy that funny

Either from No It didn't really seem like when they start Making the film It was kind of one of those like Pretty good The marketing made it seem like it was one of those like Adam Sandler and uncut gems sort of thing. Eddie Murphy is like doing something like that's a real movie for the first time in 50 years or something.

But he was kind of just doing the same thing with like slightly better production value, I guess. He was pushing for like an Oscar nom. Yeah. He might get one. Probably not. Yeah. No uncut gems in any of these best picture nominations. But that's enough.

Saffty brothers never get anything. Yeah. Good time didn't get shit. Yeah. The Academy hates them. And also, the Hollywood Foreign Press. So a lack of A24 movies, really. There's like no lighthouse.

Yeah, the lighthouse is nowhere. No waves. Oh, yeah, no waves. Stuff like that. No uncutcheon. Waves, I think, should get like editing or like directing or something like that. Acting, you know. Yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot of great movies. movies this year and a lot of things that feel like they're missing. Yeah. Yeah, marriage story is the only thing. It's like, uh. Because they go to have the Elton John movie on there. Because it's like, people sold that movie. Or like bombshell.

Like, that movie looks bad. I saw that trailer. Sorry, it just doesn't look that good. Like, Jesus. We'll just read a couple more. Animated feature film. Here we go. Jesus Christ.

There's nothing good here. Frozen 2 How to Train Your Dragon The Hidden World The Lion King Missing Link and Toy Story 4 There's nothing good here Was there a good animated movie this year

It's a weak list for sure The fact the Lion King is on there It's hilarious too It's live action Missing Link was really mediocre Toy Story 4 I know a lot of people like But again I don't think it was really anything

That special I'm really blanking though Line up for sure Yeah, and I've heard Frozen 2 isn't even Like I'm not gonna go pay money to see that Yeah, it's not even It doesn't even have like a great Critic or user rating

So it's like Yeah I'm not gonna be rushing to see it Was there a good animated movie this year? I quite liked that Netflix Christmas movie called Klaus Okay, I haven't seen that I've seen Avengers Endgame

That's funny And then yeah I don't think there's much point in listing the rest rest of these here. They don't even do visual effects for this. I don't think they know anything about movies. I think it's like a big...

It's such a, yeah, myopic little collection. Whatever. That's a good word to describe it. All right. Well, golden gloves, everybody. I won't be watching. Yeah, none of us will. I'll just read through the list of winners later.

Dun, dun, dun, don't, down, the golden globes. Yeah, nobody gives a shit about the golden globes. nobody. Barely anyone cares about the Oscars, let alone this one. Yeah, I mean, the numbers are dwindling. The Golden Globes have just never been that relevant.

The only time they were watchable was when Ricky Jervais hosted. That was awesome. He just made fun of everybody. Yeah, exactly. He was brutal. That was the best. He was called Mel Gibson and an alcoholic.

Yeah. It was awesome. It was very funny. All right. So, let's just jump. Jump right into it. Let's just jump into it The Matrix

Spoilers for all the Matrix movies We're going through One, two, three and the Annie Matrix What did you think Of the Matrix? 1999 Directed by the Wachowski's

We've all seen that before Right Yeah How familiar were we all With this series Before rewatching it this time I had seen them a couple times before I liked them.

But like now, this time, I watched all of them together in, like, one chunk. It ended up being two chunks. But, like, I separated it right down the middle. But, yeah, I've always liked the movies, but revisiting them gave me, like, a new appreciation for them, kind of. But they've never connected with me. I've never, like, love them. So still, you don't really feel connected with them, or? No.

But I understand, like, when I was younger, I always thought they were too goofy. and like silly but now I really I love how much it embraces the camp of it and I love the world it's set in like the actual lighting it's almost like noirish but with green lighting kind of like it's cool the world they made it's very appreciate it more now yeah exactly that too I see like the influences of that the the bullet time effects are really cool and groundbreaking for that time incredibly yeah what about you Alex yeah I echo basically everything you just said except only for the first movie. I really do not like the sequels really at all.

I think they kind of fail on a storytelling level. And it really, the Wachowski's claimed that they always planned for it to be a trilogy from the start, which I just really do not buy. Really? Because the first Matrix is a, yeah, I don't buy it. From the trajectory of the story. Well, maybe like a loose thing. but like the way it's like structured,

like really doesn't seem like the two and three really, like fit in the same way the first one does. The first one is a really complete little story and the way it ends. It's like, yeah, okay. Then they introduce a lot of shit in the second one. Oh, yeah. Like a lot of characters and whatever.

I totally get what you mean. I'm willing to believe that they had always intended for a trilogy, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the first second and third movie and how they're structured was always going to be that way because they went up to Warner Brothers to try and get three movies funded initially and they were like hold on hold on we don't know who you are let's just start with one movie and perhaps because they you know they didn't get two and three funded they kind of restructured and made this like perfect contained little movie and

changed what two and three might have been if they had been you know because they didn't they didn't know whether or not they would get three

is the interesting part of the story to me and two and three are just like yeah there's some interesting concepts in there but they they kind of fall flat

on their face for reasons we'll get into but should you just stick on the first one and kind of say yeah let's let's just do them in order as soon as I kind of embraced the

because it is so inspired especially by like I already mentioned like Asian influence but especially like anime and that whole kind of vibe of ghost in the shell type stuff and once you embrace the way

it's directed kind of like a live action cartoon in that sense like live action anime you know with the it's exaggerated it's over the top and that is what makes it good it's really fun energetic creative in like the the way everything's presented

it's never boring the pacing's very good and it's just an enjoy universe you said it already Ralph but the the world building is really interesting that the world is really kind of creepy and once you find out all the layers like it's a it's a fascinating concept it's it's what I'd call a concept movie more than anything it's not really about characters because when they try to develop them in later movies it doesn't really go very well but the enjoyment is like just the ride of neo finding out the truth about the world that he lives in yeah that is what makes the film really work as like a one-off piece as it were

Yeah, 100%. I really have always felt, like, close to these movies. I grew up with them. I would just, I would watch them all the time. I found them super cool. Yeah, I guess so. It's by Star Wars, you could say. There are a lot of similarities, I thought, with Star Wars even.

Aside from the obvious, like, Heroes Journey. Yeah, it's like a biblical epic like that, the Heroes Journey. Yeah. And even just that kind of. grimy aesthetic of everything with the like ships, battles and everything and the droids and all the mechanical aspect kind of stuff I thought was reminiscent. They tried to do the world building of kind of like Star Wars did. I just think for me anyway, the reason why like the first one the most is because it's set the

most actually in the matrix in like our world, but it has these exaggerated like superhero elements and that's the stuff I enjoyed the most. The sequels start to focus less on that, which I didn't like. Also, this movie has a great cast. I think that's really what holds it together. Because, like, Keanu Reeves is fucking great in this role. It's iconic. He's appropriate for the role for sure.

Exactly, he's appropriate. He likes fits. Yeah. And, like, Lawrence Fishburn's fucking great. He'll go weaving is amazing. Yeah. He's like one of the best villains maybe ever. He's chewing the scenery big time, but it is glorious to watch.

So good. Even in the sequels, he's good. Oh, yeah. Every time he's in it is a. a better moment in like the franchise. Yeah. He's kind of funny, but campiness is, you know, it's fun. It's not, it doesn't detract too much.

And he's a very, like, intimidating villain. Like, he's a serious threat. This guy who can, like, fucking morph into anyone and do anything. You're, like, scared of him. It's really worse. It's like a paranoid movie. Like, you never feel safe in that world. And it does really out of the tension, especially with that.

crucial aspect they add where they establish that you can if you die in the matrix you die in like reality but without that the stakes wouldn't feel very grounded and you'd get into that kind of ready player one type vibe what I think the sequels get into a little bit at

points where you just say okay what are the rules they're like clearly defined rules and they stick to them for the most part you only get hurt if you're stupid enough to purchase the body suit that hurts you like the villain did for no reason oh ready player one another thing that I think elevates it over the sequels

is the um the aspect of the the like betrayal of that character who like he hates reality and he's like this sucks I just want to go back to being in the matrix ignorance is bliss I think he literally says it like that totally makes sense a really interesting character to me

and it really explores the like ideas of the this whole like matrix which again is like kind of lacking in the sequels to me and it adds like a that like dilemma where you ask yourself yeah what would i do is how we open this episode like what would you do and you can you can really see his motivation despite him being a cock or whatever yeah it's a very philosophical movie in many ways yeah that's what i've always loved about it you know it makes you it makes you think about your own reality and think about your own reality and think about your own situation. And I like the

overall concept of like the world being fake and you know like breaking through into something else and like you're being controlled man. This is like the first movie to kind of have that. Right? Or at least popularized it.

This is the first movie to have that element in it. Like oh this is like a fake computer world, a virtual reality world made by AI. In that specific way, I think Truman Show came before this, and that's kind of almost... That's kind of it. It's not like a computer simulation, but... There are all sorts of influences that have dabbled with this kind of concept, but it's kind of taking all these different ideas and combining them into its own voice.

Yeah, exactly. And like this inspired tons of other movies, this inspired Inception and stuff like that. Oh, yeah. The Matrix is very... influential and is obviously inspired by a lot of other things like you said anime you could even say like blade runner from a lot of the um yeah i was thinking that dystopian future sort of setting it popularized like bullet time and slow moan tons of fucking action movies did that after even parodies like did it what a lot of people might not appreciate about this movie is like because it is so

influential if you watch it without the understanding that this is the first in a long series of movies that imitated it then you understand it's like trying to criticize die hard

for the same tropes that a lot of action movies have but die hard was the one that made those tropes so in the same sense the Matrix pretty much invented a lot of a lot of what you see in it like the bullet time, the, when everything stops and then the camera pans around while time is frozen,

like in order to achieve that, they literally had like this spiral sequence of like 50 or 100 cameras or something that all took a picture at the exact same time. And then basically used a computer software to interpret the images that are in between each camera, even though the cameras were right next to each other, there's still frames that need to be interpreted in between. Kind of the same way that motion smoothing works on modern televisions now. And that was just such a cool revolutionary effect for the time. And there were a lot of things that they did in this movie

where they were filming it, and they didn't quite know exactly how it was going to look until they did it. They shot like different variations of each scene being like, okay, well, if this effect doesn't work, we have a backup, but a lot of it just turned out great. Mm-hmm. They were doing like experimental filmmaking in like a big budget action movie. Yeah, it's crazy.

At the end of the day, this is an action movie, and it totally delivers on that, which I don't think we've said. But like the action scenes are fucking great, and they're exciting. And they do tons of stuff like that, like really groundbreaking technical things that had never been done at that point that make these scenes so much more interesting to watch. Yeah, it's incredibly well shot, too. Yeah, the CGI is pretty good.

pretty good or like the visual effects most of them yeah and the five choreography obviously yeah that's cool it's all very wide you can see everything and that's what I like about Keanu Reeves specifically is he may not be the best uh actors actor type but I think he's really good as a physical performer and in fight scenes he's excellent yeah yeah the the the cast went through four months of martial arts training before they even started filming Like it was very intense You see him become a better fighter Like as the movie goes along and that's cool

Like at the end Neo is fighting Agent whatever And he's like got one hand behind his back He's blocking him with the other It's so cool Yeah Yeah I think it also really helps The action sequences is

The music like the score is great 100% amazing score And also the license music too There weren't that many movies before this that we're using that kind of like, what do you even call the genre, kind of like, not quite industrial,

but like kind of like alternative rock, like early 2000s, late 90s kind of... House music. House music, I wouldn't call it house music. It's like, yeah. What's that genre? It does almost sound like dance music sometimes. I don't know, but there's this specific,

it's like, it plucked from a very, small moment in time, this specific kind of rock. And then after the Matrix, then everybody started using it. You would see it in like the original Ramey Spider-Man trailer. You'd see the same genre, basically, being shown in like kind of action movies from that point on. But it was really cool for the time.

And it fit very, very well. A lot of the soundtrack choices are just so iconic and influential. Like, they fit so well with the scene. And although sometimes they can be. scene is like a little cheesy. That's more of it just being like kind of dated and like I said too many things kind of imitating it. Like the 90s to early 2000s were like as well.

It's just what was cool. The fact that it is embracing that goofy tone is what makes it work. Yeah. Like it's not trying to be too serious about it. And it still has those cheesy early 2000s moments like that. Like the techno music, the fucking sunglasses and the leather jackets as they're going around like down or down to do do. Like, it's really silly.

But it's fun. It's fun to watch. I do think it has some issues, though. I think we've been really positive so far. But I think there are elements that are dated, especially when it comes to some of the visual effects. I think a lot of the CG is pretty noticeably bad. Like, whenever they showed those robots,

those flying robot squid things, I thought they looked pretty dated to me. You say noticeably bad. But you mean dated though, right? Because I don't think any of it looks bad. I don't know. It looked kind of bad to me. I was taken out of it because of how bad it looked. Okay.

Because I mean, like, I can look at it and be like, well, that's CG. But I don't think it was, like, inappropriately used for the time. I'm trying to think of, like, better ways they could have filmed the sections. I think the sequels are leaking in a little bit right now. Because the first movie was such a, like, experimental, like, pushing the boundaries of technology type movie. They continue to do that in the sequels. And it was just,

it's a case of the more you learn and the more they kept expanding on this. It kind of like just gradually was ruining the first movie more for me, more and more. Flew too close to the sun. Yeah, it's like, okay. So you're just introducing new things and new characters that are just, they're not really improving anything. And I kind of liked this little gem before you were like putting cracks in it type thing.

Yeah. And some of the dialogue, too, I thought, was like... Like, there's a certain level of goofiness where it's like, okay, that's appropriate for this tone. But there are a couple of points where I thought the dialogue just goes, like, too far with, like, the silliness of it. The standout being the... Not like this, not like this. I love that line. I love that line.

And I care so much about the characters there. I like the line, but I'm not crazy. about the delivery. Really? It didn't sell it to me. Yeah, because I love that moment. It's like a really shocking moment. And I think the moment is what's shocking.

I'm not sure if it's really the delivery of the line that makes it impactful for me. I, I, yeah, I don't agree with you there. I don't know why. Maybe it's just because, like, I've always had, like, an emotional connection to that scene. Maybe it's just, like, my nostalgia goggles or whatever. It's a good scene, but, yeah, it's just that aspect I'm not crazy about. I'll say that works for me. I think the shocking factor is like what makes it work.

Well, also like every character that dies in this film, which is not something that's consistent throughout the whole series, but in this film in particular, every character that dies is somebody you care about, in my opinion. Somebody I care about. When somebody dies, I'm like, no, damn it. Like, it's not like, oh, I don't give a shit. Yeah, I'd agree. In that moment where it's like, oh, well, several of them are just killed off right away. Like, even though you bear, you don't know too much about them, but they're. still like they're still likable characters you know you don't want them they're the good guys you know

they're good guys yeah yeah yeah i really i really liked that moment for sure we didn't really talk too much about the um the color palettes hmm very stylish very distinct well yeah i i think that it's really clever how they um differentiated the matrix and the real world by having like the green color palette versus the blue. And that actually also influenced how they were shooting it because with a lot of blue in the environment, they would use a green screen. And with a lot of green in the environment,

they would use a blue screen just so that they could actually film it properly. Of course, yeah. Without, you know, the chroma keying or whatever, kind of like bleeding into the actual environment. Yeah. I like the look of the matrix. more than like the real world in it. The real world just kind of looked like James Cameron,

like Terminator, kind of alien inspired. Yeah. Like the Matrix world felt more, that felt more interesting and original. I'd agree with that. The way they shot it. I love the reflections in the glasses especially. There's like a lot of emphasis on that. And I think you can see the camera at some point

and their glasses in the reflection. Yeah, you can see it in the doorknob. They hide it pretty well. When they go to the Oracle, you can see it in the doorknob for a second. There's a ton of like, I guess like IMDB level goofs in this movie. Yeah, little things like that. Nothing that would take away from it. Yeah.

This movie is flawed for sure. Even story-wise, it's pretty flawed. Like, there's a lot of things about it that just do not make sense when you start to think about them. Like the aliens, sorry, the robots, the machines. are using human bodies as batteries, that doesn't make any sense. Because that's not like, just basic thermodynamics.

You're not going to get more energy than what you put into it. And why human beings and not like another animal? You know, like, are human beings the most efficient at producing energy? Yeah, I was thinking about that. They don't produce energy. That doesn't make any sense.

And also, why would you need them to be asleep in the matrix in order for you to actually use them as battery? That doesn't make any sense. But it's a good setup for like the concept and what gets explored both entertainment-wise and philosophically. Right? The movie wouldn't exist without it.

It's a framing device. I guess. It really just does not make it any sense when you start to think about it. That's just what makes it unique. That's just what makes the story happen. Yeah, they prioritize the reveal of that over it making logical sense.

Yeah. I suppose because like for them that was not their priority. They wanted action scenes and they wanted like a swift story with like a hero's journey in it. That's what happens with like a lot of... It's what happened with like Terminator.

It's like why don't they just go back even farther in time to like before humanity started or just kill Lucy like the first human. It's like if you just keep digging this rabbit hole of like these science fiction concepts you're going to make your brain hurt. They fall apart. Time travel is an unwinnable game unless you're like...

Yeah, time travel is special or like... monkeys. But what I find particularly crazy about this movie is like it is incredibly exposition heavy throughout the entire movie. It's just like exposition exposition, exposition, action scene exposition, but it's not boring. And you like even after you see it multiple times the way that the exposition is delivered, there's new scenes, there's new stakes every time that something is being revealed. You know, they, Like, it's cleverly shot when they go into the Matrix and Neo and Morpheus are in this like white room and then it goes into the TV and shows like the destruction of the environment with the fake clouds by the humans or whatever. And like it's it's crazy.

It's just information being delivered, but it's so interesting and watchable at the same time. And there's very few movies that are able to pull that off properly. It's like a lightning and a bottle type movie where if you take every element independently and really analyze them you will find flaws but as a whole package it just does really work Yeah

There's a lot that I love about this movie Just this Constant Like reinforcement In his fake world That he's just another cog in the machine Yeah wake up sheeple Yeah that stuff

They put so much detail into it. It's insane. Yeah. The way, like, I would highly recommend watching through, like, all the special features for this movie. There was actually, um, a documentary called The Matrix Revisited. That is really, really interesting.

That is, just, just focuses on the first movie. But you should totally watch that because there's a lot of scenes and sequences where, like, honestly, I had no idea that they actually filmed them that way, but it makes so much sense and it was so clever for the time. Just like the helicopter save Morpheus scene like they actually had this huge physical like backdrop

of this city. Like they built like a gigantic set and had this like part of a helicopter lowered by like a crane and it's just so cool. I love what they did. It's a movie that's very close to my heart. Do you think when it came out

and inspired like a whole wave of like Matrix Truthers? Um, thought we lived in the Matrix. Probably. I think he definitely did that. Yeah. Yeah, people like when Avatar came out, they were like obsessed with the Navi. Well, that's just because they wanted to fuck the guy.

Like killed himself to be resurrected as a Navi. It's like humans, but like bigger eyes. So I can relate to them like, surely the Matrix. Inspired quite a few leather fetishists. I guess, probably. It always has to get. sexual. I mean,

like what are the two strongest forces in the human body? Like, sex drive and not wanting to die. It's like those are the only two things that humans ever really think about. Everything else is just derivative of

those two. Anyway, what would you guys give the first Matrix if we're done talking about that? We want to move on to the next one. I'd probably give it like a four star for me. Mm-hmm. Every time I revisit it, I do respect it a bit more, but unfortunately do find a couple more flaws each time too. But it's still always really enjoyable.

Yeah, like three star for me. I'm going to stick with that. It's never, there's parts of it that I just don't find engaging at all, mainly when they're not in the Matrix. But there's a lot of elements I like about it a lot, and I appreciate it. So, yeah, three. Three out of five. I'm giving this one a nine out of ten. I love it.

It's flawed, but I love it despite its flaws. I think that it more than makes up for it. Very revolutionary, very impactful, very well put together movie. It's a classic, and it's a classic for a reason. Yeah, it is. And you know what? The one piece of Matrix media hadn't seen that I'm watching this time really did actually improve not only the sequels, but the first movie a lot.

form. I'm glad. This being the Animatrix. Should you just move on to the Animatrix then? Do we want to do that? So you watched it in... Yeah, in the order you said to watch it. Okay, yeah, we can talk about the Animatrix before we talk about the sequel.

What would you prefer to do that last? Because, yeah, I think this would be the... I guess I didn't say this at the, when I recommended it last time, but this would be the ideal watching order is one animatrix and then reloaded revolutions. But I didn't really realize that until I watched through all of the... them again this time anyway. Yeah. Because there's a lot of interesting and basically necessary context from the animatrix that makes

the experience better for the sequels especially. So what did you guys think of the anime matrix? I watched it last. Yeah. No, never saw it before. So I watched it dead last. So I was really out of it at this point. And I had no idea what was going on.

but because I had lost track of what the fuck was going on in the story at this point. Ah shit. Um, it was okay. It was okay. Damn it. Again, I watched this one last. So I was really, I don't think I could give a good review of it. Oh, that sucks.

I don't stay long on it because there are, I thought there was one particular standout of the anthology that being the, what's it called? The Second Renaissance part one and two. I thought we're like a. central world building basically for the whole trilogy that really added a lot of depth to me for the antagonistic force that is these like machines because they make them a bit more sympathetic they really dive into how that that whole concept of like Darwinian evolution and the natural progression of how a machine type race would like you know use humans and what that's

where they're like logic I suppose of them using humans as batteries as why are not making any sense and all the like silly stuff like like humans to defeat the the the robots they like blacken out the sky and like I don't know how any life could even exist once after doing that yeah the humans are really turn some things off yeah yeah there's certain elements like that in the whole series where you do just have to kind of accept that it's just kind of well bad writing really like it's just dumb but it does win you back more often than not at least in the first and with with some of these shorts

in the first short which was like this weird uncanny valley like fight scene there's all like CG and stuff I really wasn't enjoying it very much I was like really this is that first one's just kind of like it reminded me of like Rogue One a little bit but okay much worse and I was like are they all going to be like this but then I think all of them after that are 2D animation with a bit of CG thrown in here and there. But I really liked the 2D stuff. I think it opened with the CG one at the beginning because for the time, that was great-looking CG.

Yeah, I was thinking that. Is that real? You know, like it was the same basic experience as like Final Fantasy of the Spirits Within. It's like, holy crap, I've never seen anything like this before. Is that the one like the sword fight? Yeah, where they're like stripping? Yeah, it looks like a PlayStation 2 cutscene It's not a PlayStation 2 cutscene, come on

It's so much better than a PlayStation 3 PlayStation 3 PlayStation 3 PlayStation 3 Like late generation PlayStation 3 I don't know Late generation It's definitely uncanny 5 Like his age

Yeah Okay But it's great for the time Yeah It's really cheesy at the beginning of it For sure Kind of gets a little better as it goes along but yeah not one of my favorites out of all them that's for sure but after that one's over the the varied

styles of animation were just on their own worth watching i thought to me even if some of them didn't have the most engaging stories but yeah for the most part they tended to have pretty good hooks like they're all short little stories aside from the the renaissance one which is a bit longer well yeah and they do a good job of building up some of those characters and exploring the the gaps that at the end of Matrix 1 and your imagination goes wild. And they're like a, the throwaway lines that are in Matrix 1 about like, oh, you know, like when there's a, they explain what like a ghosts are whatever or like what a glitches and all that kind of like throwaway dialogue. They kind of delve into that and it really helps the world building and make it a lot more interesting with some of the some of the shorts, especially that Renaissance one I thought. Yeah.

I think that like overall the entire Animatrix film is really really fitting for what the Matrix universe is because there's a lot of different stories you could explore and a lot of situations where you wouldn't want to make a full movie out of it anyway where you just want to be like okay well what about

this what if this happened you know what if someone almost woke up what if there was a glitch in this one area that you know kids found and blah blah blah blah blah where it's like you wouldn't really want that developed into a full film, but having these shorts and especially having it, you know, in different styles of anime, I feel is really fitting,

especially because of how inspired by anime the original Matrix is. So it's like, okay, this is perfect. A lot of the imagery worked even better, I thought, in the 2D animation. Yeah. Some of the stuff from the sequels more so. A lot of the imagery in the animatrix is really like brutal. and fucked up. Like,

especially in the second renaissance. It's really violent. Where, like, the guy gets ripped out of his mex suit and becomes an instant quadriplegic. And, like... Yeah, what about that robot that's, like, screaming? Oh, yeah. I'm alive while they're, like, tearing into pieces. It's, like, really actually disturbing that stuff.

It's very extreme and, like, manipulative in that way. But it does work. Yeah. That's great. I think I mentioned this in our discussion on AI, but I really love... movies that delve into this idea of like what is consciousness what is being alive you know if you if you build up artificial intelligence to a certain degree and it becomes indistinguishable then what really what what's to say that's not as legitimate as our own consciousness as our own emotions if they're

indistinguishable from an action reaction sort of perspective. The second Renaissance is the same director as the anime section in Kill Bill Volume 1, which is cool. Oh, really? Cool. That makes sense. After watching the Animatrix more recently, I feel like I appreciated it a lot more more. When I watched it when I was younger, I definitely enjoyed it, but I didn't enjoy it.

most of the segments. I would just enjoy a couple of them and just kind of feel bored by some of the other ones. But now I just, you know, like appreciating the different styles and the different concepts, I feel like I got more out of it as an adult. Yeah, I love the, like, civil rights symbolism,

the Million Machine March. Yeah, very political. Yeah. Yeah, it's... Which really worked, I saw. Really great. The energy, along with the visuals. Yeah, let's...

I have them all, like, list. on my notes here. What did you think of a kid's story? That was the rotoscope one, wasn't it? ROTUSO was that? Yeah, I really like that one. Was that rotoscoped? Well, it seemed like a combination to me.

It looked like that kind of style to me. Like tower. More so than some of the others. What? Yeah. I wouldn't say that. You don't think so. You don't think about the motion seemed.

The kid's story. The kid's story one was the, it's the same character as the, the guy that, that collects ammo in the sequels, where he's like, thanks for saving me, Neo.

It's like the, oh, he has that awful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the same one I'm thinking of,

right? It's hyper stylized, but I thought the motion was, the animation was just simply too, it was too realistic. I don't know how else they could have achieved it because it would have just taken,

I don't know, I might watch it again, maybe it's just such incredible animation. But yeah, I thought it was a good one because that character is not good. when he shows up in the movies and his backstory is actually really interesting. Yeah, I think knowing where the character came from helps with the character in the sequels.

Yeah, again, I'd seen it after, so. Oops. I was introduced to that character in Matrix 2. He's just like an annoying fanboy. Yeah. Yeah, I can't stand that character. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's, at this point, I think the, uh, the, uh,

Second Renaissance is probably my favorite. When I was younger, I think kids' story was my favorite. Just because I liked the style. I liked the music, and it appealed to me just like this, like, man, I don't belong in the world. And I'm a young teen. I'm going to jump off my school and kill myself sort of thing. And that kind of appealed to me when I was younger. But yeah, it's still good.

Yeah, I can see that. Then we got Program, the Ninja Setting one, kind of stylized. Yeah, I thought the animation was. It's very impressive on that one. They were like animating like slow motion and stuff and all look very, very detailed and elegant. Yeah, I don't have much to say about that one. I don't know.

The story wasn't that like the conflict was like the exact same as the first movie pretty much. Like it wasn't that unique of a story particularly. There's a little twist at the end which was. It was a test. Yeah. It added something at least if it just ended and that was that. It would have been kind of lame.

But there was some reveal at the very least. We got World Record. person that like almost breaks through and was that a character who shows up in two or three no i don't think so because they almost broke through and then they kind of like got lulled back into being asleep oh yeah i wasn't sure by the like ambiguous sort of ending it had but yeah i think i i don't think that was a character that that we see later yeah i didn't recognize him but yeah the animation was really weird in this one at points it looked great it's very very stylized At other points, it looked really silly.

Yeah, he was like, I think they were trying to, like, accentuate that kind of, like, digital, like, warped, it's not real type thing. Or something, I'm not sure. Yeah. Beyond was, like, the glitch zone one. Yeah, the glitch one. What'd you think of that?

I liked it. Exploring that concept was neat, but beyond that, it's not, you know, that memorable to me. Did you recognize the voice of Bobby Hill as one of the kids? No, I didn't. Yeah. Oh, hang on, no, I did, actually. No, I did.

Yeah, because they were using a lot of voice actors through all of them that I was, or voice talent I was recognizing throughout, even though it was SpongeBob in one of them. I think in the first one, Tom Kenney's in there. And then we got two more. We got a detective story, the noir one, black and white. I like that it explored, like, this kind of, I guess, idea of, like, Okay, what would happen if someone like Trinity tried to wake someone up,

but the agents got to them first and they just wound up dying? Yeah. It's like unsuccessful. Yeah. I thought the whole animatrix as a package kind of increased the stakes for me in the universe. Like it really shows like how much they've like failed trying to get to the point they're at and the struggle. It really emphasizes the struggle and like the brutality of it all. Yeah.

And it really is like quite. Genuinely disturbing, if that kind of concept gets your brain whirring, which I really enjoyed. If the lore is interesting, you know, these movies are cool. Yeah, it's cool seeing that there's much more going on than just what's happening with Neo. Yeah, because that especially, I keep going back to the Renaissance one, but it felt almost like, you know, the beginning of the First Lord of the Rings with it. It's just like a bunch of exposition, like essential exposition to give this really extensive backstory. It's really similar to that in it.

and it expands on the world in a similar way. All right, and the last one of the Animatrix was called Marticulated, which had like an interesting... Strangest one. Oh, yeah. That one creeped me out when I was younger. It was pretty, yeah, it's pretty trippy. Yeah, it was really disturbing.

A lot of psychedelic imagery. Yeah. When it turns into like Looney Tunes for a little second, it's just like, what is going on? It's a weird drug trip. Yeah, it's kind of like Aon Flex style. Yeah. An interesting, like, 2D and 3D cell-shaded blend also.

Yeah, yeah. With these, like, they were exploring the idea of, like, flipping the original matrix on its head, sort of, of humans, like, reprogramming robots to, yeah, to do their bidding. Mm-hmm. Which is, like, it's almost too far ahead of itself in a way. The hook of the story didn't really work as well for me on this one, especially because, because, because like the robot designs, were they actually in any of the movies? Like, it was like a custom one just for that.

Yeah, I think there were new ones for this, but... Yeah, it was okay. Yeah. It didn't really feel like the Matrix. Yeah, I guess that was my problem with it. It did feel way more kind of cartoonish. Kind of an animated. It was just its own thing.

Yeah, very much so. The little monkey thing in the orange chamber was like death stranding and it alerted them where the bad guys were. It was like the same thing. And they all got brutally murdered. Oops. Some of the shorts were stronger than others, but watching it as an adult at this point, I feel like there's no bad ones.

None of them I would consider bad. I enjoyed all of them. Yeah. Yeah. At worst, they're just like mediocre or forgettable. But the ones that are good do really enhance the world. you enjoy the first one especially. They're like solid lore movies.

Yeah. I've never been like a fan of those. They had them for the new Blade Runner 2, Blade Runner 2. Blade Runner 2049. Like I thought those were okay. These are much better than those. Yeah, I think these are much better. But yeah, some of these, like especially the CG animated ones, like the dated computer

graphics. Yeah, yeah. That's a lot of it. Yeah, there's quite a few kind of like anime anthology compilations that exist out there. You've seen the Halo one? Yeah, I saw the Halo one. That one's mostly forgetable. That one's not great.

It's nowhere near as good as this one. Yeah. Love death and robots. Love death and robots. Would you count something like that? Good. It's kind of like this. That's more of like there's some really,

there are some awful episodes I thought of that. Yeah. They're more connected in theme, not the world. Yeah. I like that more. It gives you a little more freedom. I would say the Animatrix is probably my favorite anime anthology sort of collection.

Yeah, it's the best one I've seen What would you give it out of ten? Or out of five I'd probably give it Three and a half stars To be honest Yeah I'm with you

I was gonna say It's gotta be out of ten I'm seven out of ten I don't know if I can even rate it It's just a bunch of animated shorts That's three out of five It fits your thing It didn't really engage me though

Like I have no fucking idea what's going on Some of them look okay That's fine Yeah Alright, now we get to live action again, right? Yeah, back to real life. Let's get out of the Matrix.

The Empire Strikes Back of the Matrix movies. The Empire Strikes Back. Can we talk about the titles and how much it bugs me? Because I can never remember which ones comes first and second because they're both words that begin with R. And they're both, they're both words that like don't really, they're like video game titles, you know? They both came out the same year. And they came out the same year. year.

It's so hard to know which one is like identical. Yeah, it's just fucking green, three people in trench coats. Yeah. But yeah, reloaded. That one came first. Yep.

And it's generally considered all right. It's not considered, you know, like attack the clones or something like that. But it's still kind of delivers on like the action. On the action premise? Yeah.

Kind of. Like there's a car chase in this movie that I think is great. I just think that's probably the best sequence. Like it's so much fun. Yeah. I don't know. Not as memorable as the first one in that respect either.

Yeah, for sure. I find this one the most boring. Like, we're going to talk about the third one, obviously, but I find this one really dull. And I can't really pinpoint what it is in particular. I think it's just because after the first movie, Neo just is not interesting to me after that point. He's already completed his arc, really. Yeah. And he just randomly, when it's convenient to.

the script he gets like a new type of power he's jesus name out of some situation yeah all the all the religious imagery is really on the nose and annoying and he gets he has to have this romantic relationship with trinity which i just think is so so poorly developed i just don't buy it like the explanation for like her explanation for why she loves him and whenever they try to justify it is it's just so weak anytime they do it i just didn't buy their relationship and why she cared beyond him just being Jesus. I love you because you're just so ridiculous. Because the story says so.

Yeah. Because the story and because we need a love story in our epic trilogy type thing. And that's a lot of the movie. The writing feels a little rushed in the sequels. Yeah. I think I would actually agree with you that this one is the most boring, but I would say it's still probably better than the revolution. It is. Yeah.

It's just less memorable for sure. Yeah. Like the only things I remember are the car chase and, and, and, I would say, and, you know, it's just less. the PS2 cut scene where they were flinging around about a million Smith agents. There's like a million agent smiths. Which I really don't like that scene. I kind of like that scene. It's so fun. Yeah, I kind of like that scene. Even though it's obvious that like there's a lot of body doubles and there's a lot of CGI. I think that scene is kind of cool. Yeah.

I like it. I like it in concept. Yeah, I like it visually. And I think in like a in a more, what's the best way to put it? If it was in like one of these two-de animated things, I don't think it would bug me at all, but I think it is just the age nature of it now and and it does go on for a long time like yeah the point of the scene from a storytelling perspective is more just to show off effects than it is anything else and then they just get fed up with it and he just flies away yeah goodbye it's kind of frustrating from that aspect yeah the scene could have been 30 seconds it would have been the same yeah they like storyboarded this ridiculous fight scene that just goes on and on

it's kind of like a george Lucas thing with the it's like the pod of race of the movie basically. Or the lightsaber fight at the end of Revenge of the Sith. Yeah. Yeah. There are also some CG that I thought was worse

in its implementation than the first movie. Because it wasn't as restrictive. Yeah, exactly. Like the ghost characters that like kept turning into like these... The Olson twins? You know the ones. The twins, yeah.

But like, I thought that effect was so goofy. Yeah, I don't like them. The first movie really has that perfect balance where it's somewhere. how avoids going to that kind of level that like B movie sort of tier yeah it's very grounded yeah they don't do a lot of crazy shit in that one I mean I do agent Smith does especially but it's just a lot of jumping around just shooting a lot you know slow motion it's very comes Dragon Ball Z in camera yeah yeah yeah a little two

anime with the twins the CG goofy twins yeah I didn't like that element there's some parts of this where it's like I don't know but like if you took the same overall of the sequels, but you, instead of filming it as these movies, you had them literally as an anime, might have worked better. Might have felt more appropriate in terms of, like, I guess, you know, the cheesy campiness and also, I guess, the visuals to some extent. I think what engages me anyway is not the world of these Matrix movies, or the real world. I like the fake one that they live in.

little bit yeah um so like the key master you like the oracle and all that yeah yeah i guess but like i can't stand that stuff they're programs yeah but at least it was like grounded like just real people like original i don't know they're stuck in in a difficult situation with the first movie is about finding out the truth and so by the end of that movie you discover that neo in his reality he's not the same as he is in the matrix he doesn't have the power he has different vulnerabilities in like the real world

so they have to add stakes to the real world stuff and as well as trying to now explain this digital world which we know technically isn't real but they also have to make that compelling as well and give excuses to keep going back into it despite us already known yeah it's so much and I think like what works for me about these movies is the film

aspect, like the look of it and the action scenes. And like just the first story that like simple, uh, hero discovers himself, average guy discovers he's the greatest thing and saves the day. Like, and now it's become about like just elaborating on this world and all these characters. And that's not what I enjoyed about the first movie at all. And the third one especially really becomes about that shit. Yeah, they tried to, instead of making it about one.

person's hero's journey. They kind of tried to turn it into like a Lord of the Rings epic scale. It's like Jupiter ascending-ish. Like, oh, we're trying to build this epic film. But the characters are kind of meh. Yeah, this is what I mean about it not feeling like a cohesive trilogy in the sense that they, in the second movie, they suddenly establish a bunch of new characters that I don't remember being in the first movie. And they're given a bunch of screen time and they never do anything interesting. And the only real point that I can see for them is, So when they die in the huge, like, Helms deep fight sequence in the third one, it's like supposed to give a bit of emotional impact or weight.

But I think that stuff, like, all, like, fall so flat on its face. Because you already have these characters that honestly really need development, like Trinity and all the other characters that were already on the ship in the first movie. Like, that was, there was enough going on there where you could have expanded on that, but they go more for the, like, philosophical, like, exposition stuff, like, over, doing anything with the characters, which I find so frustrating. Yeah. Gotta raise the stakes.

It's got a huge action scenes and battles. The exposition was, I don't know, that's what works. Was like necessary in the first film, whereas they're just basically trying to find new things to add to the sequels to create more exposition. And it's much, much worse handled, too. You know, like the scene with the Oracle right before the fight scene with the. the Smiths, the agents, not the band. Yeah. Like, the entire scene with the Oracle is just literally only there to set up him being there

for that fight scene. They're kind of just, like, dragging on, like, oh, we're programs. And she says shit, like, well, you know that vampires and werewolves were actually rogue programs, just doing things that they shouldn't. It's like, you don't need that. Like, why does that matter? It's kind of cheesy. It's that classic thing where.

They take a concept that's really novel at first, but the more they expand on it, the worse it becomes. Yeah, they ruin it. It's so similar to the Star Wars prequels of like the MetaClorian. Oh yeah. Describing this force that like it's like ruining the whole point of it being like a plot device. Leave no stone unturned. Yeah, exactly. It's just delving into this pointless detail that isn't really enhancing anything.

So you're just left frustrated trying to like just figure out the nonsensical elements of the plot. Like what is the, what is the actual? plot of this movie? Like, tell me. Try and do it. Okay, so the Neo is a Superman Jesus and they're like, yo, there's things happening.

We got to go to Zion and have a big a big techno-orgy because the spider machines are coming. What the fuck was that scene? I was laughing really hard. There's like thousands of people just standing in a cave. So what,

how are these people like alive? Do they just live? Are they always here? Yeah. Like, where do they get to toilet? Yeah, they're all right next to each other just standing up all the time.

In this giant cave and they're all like, yeah. They have a lot of technology, but they don't have like a PA system. So like Morpheus is just shouting to like a billion people. And they can all hear them. But they have all that. They can like hack into the matrix and have this whole like system running underground of machines and what blah blah blah blah blah blah blah but they don't have a microphone. So he just yells really loud and everybody everybody's really quiet and they can hear him.

Such a strange choice though too. It's weird. Yeah, because if you want one side in the like conflict to feel like the underdog, don't show them with like armies of people. It's like thousands of people in that room. That's for like the very end. Yeah. But even in the fight scene, like, yeah, you need to have loads of people to be in these stupid goddamn mecks or whatever. But, like, you didn't have to go that route.

It could have been way more understated and way cooler as a result if it was more focused on, like, the original characters. Yeah, Neo. Developed that relationship he has with Claire Dane's. And I like caring about characters more so than, like, these big, epic fucking... It's what makes it satisfying. Yeah. Like Princess Leia, Hans Solo, and Luke. are like very, like, you understand those characters and they have like a more interesting

dynamic than just, oh, I love you and that's it. Like, there's more to it than that. Yeah, well, like the fellowship and Lord of the Rings. Like, they all have different motivations. And they're in like fight scenes, like the dynamics, like they're explored and developed. And they're all from like opposite sides of the planet. They have totally different backgrounds. And these two characters are, they're like these dull.

They come from the same place. Oh, I love you. I love you too. there's nothing interesting going on with that. Yeah, I don't understand why they like each other and you never do. Yeah. And where they choose to take it in the third movie is just like, so it was all basically points. And there's supposed to be like a big emotional punch in that.

It's a prophecy. Didn't hit. Yeah, how do you feel about the whole like prophetic angle of the trilogy? That's another thing that bugs me, which is also really similar to the Star Wars prequels. That's another element of that trilogy that really brings it down. I don't know, because the Oracle. just straight up lies to people too which is weird

and she's the only one that is like aware of the prophecy and things do they ever like straight up explain what the prophecy is there will show you it because normally when there's a prophecy there's like a scene where they walk you through it well I don't know she's a fucking liar so we don't really know

she just lies to people it's very straight into interpretation so we don't really know what the prophecy is But there's not like a moment with, because it's like, the Lego movie mocks the trope of like the hero's journey. It's like, it's very much mocking this exact kind of story. And it almost would have been cool to find out that there was actually nothing special about Neo.

And like that would, they would have been something new to explore there, at the very least, instead of him just gradually getting more and more powerful and then getting blindfolded and saving it the world. Yeah. To hide the fact it can't act. Yeah, I don't know. the uh the the prophecy i think is kind of an excuse for the sequence of events to happen at all because without it morphius doesn't have his motivation and to some extent the other characters are just

kind of bland if they all need this prophecy to have any motivation to care about the story yeah i think it's funny that they believe in a prophecy but i mean yeah that's why i'm not mad about the morphius character because you never really like see why he is so passionate about the cause he just tells you yeah i just believe i say well give us something like instead of like a ridiculous fight scene that goes on for 20 minutes like i don't know give me a flashback into like his origins or something just give me something to chew on because the series as it goes along like they're like halving quality each time and each time the storytelling becomes way more about scope and scale than the like philosophical aspect of the first movie because that's what is interesting about it

and it gradually just becomes more and more like just schlock star wars like fight scene just shit as it goes on it's very average like even if you don't think it's shit it's just not the the originality of the first one but but but i mean the we but i mean the we get the philosophical scenes like when the perverted frenchman makes a woman orgasm from a cake oh i remember that's Very philosophical. When I was younger, I thought she pissed herself. She had a big poop. Too innocent.

Yeah, it's like Jupiter ascending or like any one of those fucking, they like trying to make something epic. I don't think it's as bad as Jupiter ascending, though. No, it's not as bad, but it feels like the same template almost. Yeah. You know? Have you guys seen a speed race of it? I've seen bits of it. I haven't seen the whole thing.

Because it's like the natural extension of the first Matrix, just in the doubling down of, okay, let's just make an anime in live action, then. And let's just see how that goes. And you can see little aspects of it in the way they directed the first three Matrix movies. I'm not sure if it made it good or anything. But it's like the only thing that carries the trilogy to me, at least the second and third movie, is that cartoonish aspect of it. like the imagery and the it's almost like a Zach Snyder style of direction where it's just all

about imagery and like the way things look over you know characters yeah yeah it's just all about yeah and that works the visual side of it basics that works in the first one because it's just like an action movie then when they try to make this epic i don't know it's well it has so much of a better structure in the first one i think the structure is probably like the weakest part of this movie because you kind of lose sight of what they're actually doing after a certain point. And like what Alex was saying, the motivations are really weak. You're like, I get you guys don't want to die, but what else is going on?

Like, what else do you want? Because they got to get the, they got to get the keymaker because the rogue program stole the keymaker. And I forget why they need the keymaker. But they got to do that and they got to break into, they got a whole team and it turns into a heist movie kind of, where they got to break into a place where if they open a door without the power grid being shut down, then they all blow up and die. But if the power grid is shut down, then they're fine.

So even though Trinity promises not to go into the Matrix, there's this whole other ship that's not the Nebuchadnezzar, this whole team that just crashes and dies that was supposed to shut down the power grid. And they just like Literally the freak accident Was like a guy running across the bridge In the ship And the bridge just falls It like it just wasn't constructed properly

And it just like falls and he dies And everybody in the ship just like gets killed And it's the weirdest fucking thing And it can only be explained by like Oh I guess it's part of the prophecy Like God words Works in mysterious ways or some shit And then storytelling

Yeah is rampant in the... So Trinity needs to go into the Matrix because nobody's going to shut off the power grid. She goes in, she gets shot, which fulfills Neo's bad dream prophecy, a separate prophecy. And then he supermans himself

to save her, somehow not breaking her bones in the process of like shooting past the screen as she's falling and catching her. And I guess she got shot in the heart, but he can reach inside her, and squeeze her heart a few times and she's fine. Yeah, but I lose, I lose track of why they were there for the keymaking.

Describe and a plot of this movie. Yeah. Yeah. It's a little confusing, but the chase scene was really cool. Exactly. You see all that shit and it's at the service of like a car chase. Yeah. It's like, I like the directness of the first one.

It is so cool. It's the best part of the movie. Can you remind me? I watched this film like, I guess, two days ago, and I can barely remember it. The car chase sequence. It's just a lot of jumping. The car chase sequence. I remember the twins being in it and the ghosts flying around and stuff, right?

Or am I thinking of a different bit? No, yeah, the twins were in it. It goes on for a while. It's a very, very long car chase sequence that explores... That's why I liked it. Yeah. Because it was really long. It like felt like these guys will not stop until they fucking get it.

The music's great. They're just trying to like steal the keymaker, I guess. Or kill them? I guess that's why I didn't really remember it is because I can't even remember why they were there and why any of it was happening beyond it just being good versus evil. Oh yeah? I remember that guy being there. He's just some dude in the car.

Like that element I remember. That's actually why it stands out to me probably because I understood like the goal of the scene like really. clearly like oh they want that guy yeah it wasn't as muddled as like the rest of it there's this problem it has with the because they all that two and three have multiple stories going on at once and i i think it's worse than the third one actually but the way they tie together they seem to be going on so separately that the film would just stay on one for like 30 minutes and then suddenly just slash over to the other and it makes it feel so like truncated and all And the pacing's really slow because of it because it's just changing its focus like so

So drastically it seems from like one to the other like you have a really slow scene with neo like being all philosophical and then you jump to like people in macro bots running around like just mowing down armies for like 20 minutes chunks is this really strange experience I do appreciate they try to do something new and like not make the same movie again because they could have got that route And if this movie was made now, that's probably, I mean, that might be what they do with the new one. I'm curious to see what they do with that. Yeah, the soft reboot. Especially us talking about how dated it is. Like, there's so many elements, like the music and the slow-mo and the trench coats that are just not, like, I would just laugh if I saw that now. But back then, it's cool.

So. They would just make Neo-Morphius and, like, just change everyone's roles a little bit. They'll bring him back or something in. It would be the whole thing. It would just be the Force Awakens again. Yeah, get a girl. Busters. It'll be Kate McKinnon.

It will be the new Neo. No, they were young CG, Keani. That's what they'll do. Yeah. There will be one scene where they flash back and they do that. But I like the idea of Keanu being like the Morpheus character. Well, yeah. You would have thought they would have done that in the second movie, maybe.

Because he's a completed character by the first one. He's literally Superman at the end. It's like how that film ends. He flies off exactly like a scene. beer. So now in any fight scene you put him in after that point, you know, well, why don't you just fly away? Why don't you just get out there, dude? Doesn't help the tension. He, like, forgot how to fly for a bit and then remembered, you know, once he fought enough of the Smiths, the agent's not the pain. It's hard to justify certain decisions when you just have to say,

well, yeah, I guess if you don't think about it, then it's all right. Yeah. I mean, like, the, again, the first movie has lots of. issues, but there's enough to grip you in terms of like the basics of the story that you can follow things really easily and the pacing's really great. This second movie really drags along in the first half. I think the second half is much better. Things sort of start moving along and you're not left wondering why things are stagnant and just like not progressing. It really feels like it's just dicking around not doing anything for a lot of the first half of this movie. But I still don't hate it. Even though this is a sequel to The Matrix,

it is still kind of like a classic movie for the time. It invoked a lot of pop culture parodies and references. And this was a huge box office numbers breaker. It was like the highest opening weekend ever at the time. It made the most out of the trilogy. Oh, yeah? Yeah. But yeah, I mean, like, it introduced some...

I don't know. It just doesn't really connect with me. New sequences and concepts and, like, was essentially a tech demo for a lot of it. The way that some of these sequences were shot, even though, like, yeah, they used way too much CG for the most part. There were some really cool things that they did, like the whole chase scene near the end. Like, they basically just built, like, a big stretch of highway out in the middle. middle of the desert where they would have all these cars running down, driving down, and then just like move them all back to the end to keep playing the scene because essentially, you know, the

background is, there's nothing too distinguishable in the highway set that would make you be like, oh, I've seen that before. They're just doing the same stretch of highway forever. So you really feel like they're just like continuing to drive along this nameless kind of highway. Yeah, a lot of, There's still a lot of cool things going on in this movie. I really like the soundtrack still. I really like the way it's shot. Like the filmmaking still has a personality to it. And I like that a lot.

It does, but not as much. Like, it's not as... It's not as purposeful as the first one. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of scenes of just guys talking. And I'm like, I miss the fucking cool angles and the sunglasses, close-ups on that. And Mr. Anderson, all that shit.

Yeah. It's taking its... It's starting to take its... too seriously. Mm-hmm. You know. It kind of makes me wish that they would have maybe reeled their involvement back ever so slightly, the Wichowski's, I mean.

What I mean by that is maybe bring in someone else to write the screenplay using their ideas and them, you know, kind of being at the top there, but entrust it to someone else, perhaps, to craft the story a bit more and bring someone else into help, because clearly that's that's where it really falls apart more than anything because there are dated aspects of the production, sure, but if it was all in service of a story that was genuinely really cool, I would forgive a lot of it, but the fact that it is just so

muddled and really hard to get into any of the characters. Because this always happens. I've rewatched the trilogy a fair few times, and I watched the first one, I'm like, that was really good. Why do I not really like this trilogy? And then I put on the second movie, I'm like, oh, that's why I don't really hold the Matrix

movies that high because I think it's just it just drops the ball so hard for me on the second movie and the third movie I don't think the second movie introduces anything interesting either even like a sci-fi concept like the first one has the the battery babies and the dream element or like the matrix

this one has like nothing there's like nothing new introduced that they introduce some things they're just not that interesting the key maker well yeah it's not a memorable the programs the key maker uh you know that Smith turning other people

into Smiths and shit. There's actually one element that we haven't talked about, maybe because it was just so forgettable. What did you guys think of the programmer, Colonel Sanders? The guy with the big, all the TVs? What's he called again?

Colonel Sanders. It's called like the programmer. Is that Israeli's name? He's got that amazing recipe for chicken, doesn't it? Yeah. That seems awesome where he was describing the secret recipe. Yeah.

So like, it, what's explained? in that scene is just so confusing. I don't know if you guys really got what was happening. So like, what they're trying to explain in that scene from what I gather is

that this has all happened before that like they actually destroyed Zion like six times before and it's supposed to kind of raise the stakes in a way of like oh, this is hopeless Neo no matter what you do. Like

this is like a deterministic universe or something like that. Yeah. So I don't know if that was done that successfully because really it's just a confusing way that they showed the scene. Yeah. They felt very sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's like trying to raise the stakes, but at the same time, it's just like it's kind of a weird, out of place, unfitting scene.

It doesn't fit with the rest of it. And then we never see him again. Totally forgettable. Really. I think he shows up for like a second right the end, yeah just a second at the end he's there Yeah

And you've forgotten about his entire existence By then you're like who's this Oh yeah that guy I could probably find a really good fan edit of this movie somewhere I think there is one where they cut out All the Zion scenes actually Yeah

They just got out of the shit And the revolutions There were like clear scenes Where I was just like okay This could be cut out Like that, like that character from the animated one who was just annoying. Like every scene with him, I was like, why are you introducing this guy? We don't need him here.

Yeah, that was a particularly strange one to me, that entire character, why they gave him so much screen time. What was the purpose? Which one? Actually, they do it with a lot of the crew. The one who had his own introduction in the Kid. Oh, okay, the Kid. The Kid.

Yeah, the Kid character. I'm trying to remember the name of that one. A kid story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't hate him. Yeah, I kind of did.

Yeah, I kind of did. And the pilot as well. Who has like his wife. And he's got loads of scenes and it's like, I don't care about you. Why you, why should I like? That was so bland. Are you talking about the guy that showed up and was like, where's my pussy? Yeah, yeah, yeah, the guy from Lost.

Okay. Never watched Last. Yeah. I don't hate him. I don't know. I like, there's characters that are introduced. What is his purpose in this story? Well.

I mean, they're just... Let's spend less time with Neo and more time with this guy. It's not as if they're like... There are minor characters in the first movie that are just as purposeless, but they're more likable. They're just a part of the crew. There's way more sense for the crew with more people, though. Right? And I guess they developed them a little too much.

They gave them a little too much screen time. He just had dedicated scenes, though, for some reason. Yeah. Like, that whole aspect with his wife did not need to be in the movie. And it's only there so for the, like, five scenes. And also, like, his wife does some stuff too in the third movie. It does really try to be more expansive in Lord of the Rings style. You know, it really tries to throw in more characters so that there are more things happening during the big fight scenes near the end.

So you're not just like watching random people. So you have an idea of like, oh, there's this person that I've been introduced to that is trying to fire the rocket at the center. or whatever they're called, rather than just, you know, random army people or random people we've never seen before. So I don't think it's like completely useless. But it does, especially in the first half of the Matrix Reloaded, it does feel really, it just kind of drags on a little bit. Yeah.

You don't, yeah, you don't get the payoff for so long that it makes it feel pointless. Like I can't imagine seeing this movie in theaters by itself and then just being like, was that it? Like, how did you feel at the end where you're like, oh, I'm hyped now for the... At the end, I was like... What's someone called? Revolution. Man, this was like one big trailer. But I still really enjoyed it. It doesn't feel like it...

It doesn't earn its place as a standard of a movie. Yeah. Like, two and three, neither of them do, really. They are one movie stretched out over four hours. Yeah. With almost the same title. Yeah. Yeah, the same film. It is weird.

What does the second one end on? How does it end? Um... I don't even... It ends on the shot of the guy who's basically like Joe Pantoliano, but not. The guy who like cuts himself and is like being controlled by Agent Smith in the real world somehow. God, this is what I mean. Like, it just becomes a blur.

It has neo-unconscious and they're like, man, he's passed out for a bit. And then they're, you hear the medical staff saying, oh yeah, well, there is this other guy and all of his crew were dead and he was the only survivor. I guess we're going to have to ask him questions about it. And it like pans down and it shows this other guy that is basically like the Joe Pantaliano from the first movie, but not. The guy who like was about to stab him. That's right.

I remember now. And then the kid calls out, Neo. And then Neo turns around. He's like, hey, what's up? And the guy's like, oh, nothing. Like puts the knife behind his back. Yeah. Yeah.

Really corny execution of that whole sequence. that's a weird character yeah this repetition yeah repetitive I guess we should move on to the third movie if we don't have anything more to say about it yeah what did you guys

what did you guys at a whatever I'd do two out of five for me yeah I might give it a one and a half star if I had to like I really don't like watching this movie mm-hmm

I give it a a six out of ten closer to a five than a seven. I still don't hate it. I really don't. I moved it down. I think when I was younger, I had it like at a seven or something.

Are there people who hate this movie? Is there like a prequel level backlash against it? I don't hate it. I just think it's like really mediocre. Yeah. It's lacking in many ways. Most of my notes are negative, but I still love it as.

part of like the overall universe. So in the same way that like, there's people that just love watching Star Wars shit because they love the universe. It's like, yeah, I would consider this my Star Wars. Or like those Hobbit movies. And it's still, you know, it still manages to capture a lot of the same tone

and feel as the first movie, even if not consistently, even if it gets boring at points. It's still something that I enjoy watching. if I'm going to watch the Matrix I'm probably going to watch all of them sort of thing yeah I normally do too but I just get

I'm angry and resentful by the end all right let's do it's talk about revolution revolutions not revelations reloaded revolution we all agree this is the worst one by far yeah uh yeah that's the worst one

it's a complete schlock like it's a piece of crap there's still is this the one where there's a portrayal there's another portrayal the betrayal. The betrayal's teased at the end of the second one and then I guess it happens in this one. Yeah, it happens in this one. It's so bad, but

I find it more entertaining than the second one. I think it's hilarious. I think it's so bad it's good in a lot of ways. Especially when it gets to the the like fight scene on the Zion, where there's just like hundreds of millions of these flying robots just flying around. They have to color code everything. Yeah, they have to color code everything, otherwise you couldn't tell what was happening.

Right. With the light colors. You know what it was? This is like the movie I realized I didn't care about anything. Like that was going on. I didn't care about like the characters of the world. Because it's supposed to be the ultimate conflict. This is it.

Because this isn't about building that up anymore. It's about paying off. And I was never satisfied throughout the entire movie. I was just watching it. It was like. Because who, in the Zion conflict, who do you care about? though. I like Neo. I like Neo kicking

Agent Smith. That's all I liked. And then these movies became about a bunch of shit. Yeah. Like all the characters that are there that you barely know anything about any of them apart from the guy with his wife. I like the guy's wife. I like her lesbian

friend or whatever. I like what they were going through. He was very anime. The whole like having like this like catalog of characters and it's more about like a collection of characters now more so than just like one guy. Yeah, I like the kid. I like the

guy who he's like collecting ammo for. You know, they feel like they're not well-developed characters, especially compared to like the first movie. Like they're not as lovable as anybody that died in the first movie. But I still consider them to be like a part of the universe. I don't hate them at all. And

I'm not bored by their scenes. The moments that I'm actually able to take seriously in this movie are the Zion fight scenes. Like those are the most memorable for me So I disagree with those are It's just like terrible I don't consider those bad

When I think bad I'm thinking of like The baby robot It's like when they're running around It like mecks screaming I love that I think I actually really enjoy that I think it looks cool Yeah

I mean it looks a little dated CG wise for sure But like I I'm like into those parts And yeah I get that it's like I didn't think that's cool It's just silly it is kind of silly but yeah well I get I get your point of view you love this universe or you like enjoy being in it so it doesn't it doesn't matter because I have shit like that too I have that with Star Wars

or I don't know even the Hobbit movies I think the Hobbit movies are a good comparison because like they yeah they try to like elaborate on on this very simple premise and all these simple elements and it doesn't really come together as well I still like that one But yeah, I get what you're saying. It's the most video gamey. Yeah. A lot of the time it feels like video game cutscenes. Even those characters, they feel like video game, like just guys you meet that you have short dialogue trees with.

They don't feel like real people to me. They didn't feel fleshed out. They're so like whatever caricatures. It's just so strange that they didn't put a major character in that battle though. Mm-hmm. That too. That was very strange. It was like they were setting up all those characters to have that plot.

Yeah. And meanwhile, you have Neo-com. coming to terms with himself and his purpose and fighting Agent Smith for like the final time. But like, why did we need that whole other element? Yeah, I can see if you don't care about any of those characters, how those scenes can just be like obnoxious. Yeah, and I just wasn't into that world. I found it fun.

I find it like... It's schlock, yeah, it's fun on a schlocky level. The visuals of like this, you know, all these... Are they called Sentinels? I can't remember. Sounds right. Sentinels, yeah. Something like that.

All these things that are like coming through the whole destroying their home. Like, I don't know. I get some sort of emotional impact out of that. And like just the scale of just how many of them there are. And despite their best efforts, despite all these like mecksuits, they're clearly getting destroyed. You know, I think the music works well for it. I don't think it's like terribly shot.

Yeah, it's so good. I don't think it's like terribly executed in in that sense. There's a lot of impressive stuff going on technically still. Especially for the time. It's pretty like I would consider it like fairly epic if you want to say that. Yeah. The scale is like justified in those fight scenes and there is some cool imagery just with the like what I said with the harsh like contrasting colors so you can actually tell who's who is. It is striking the like,

it's like loads of, like underwater leeches or like a, the way fish move or something. Like just swarming the screen, which is, is interesting. Yeah. Especially in contrast to like the weird stuff with Neo

being in like purgatory or whatever he's in in the start of the film, at that train station he can't leave. Yeah. Yeah, that's weird. Didn't really enjoy that very much with a guy from Mad Max. Yeah. And I, um,

I, I, I also consider this to be the worst, but when I think of the bad shit, I'm more so thinking about like what Neo's doing actually. Like I think I care more about the character of Neo, I guess. But I think that what he goes through is more dumb and more silly. Yeah, definitely. Well, yeah, what happens to him in this movie?

It's about losing. Because it's like where else do you take him? Like you said, he's Jesus. So it has to get even crazier from there. Yeah, they treat him like a lot of, um, media treats Superman where they just don't know what to do with them so they just like they kill his love interest they make him stronger and stronger and able to overcome anything we haven't even talked about the very clean way the movie wraps up it's just like oh well i guess you guys like

won okay you just save the day just like uh just like at the end of return a jedi like the the entire resistance is waiting outside and the the guy comes out he's like we won everybody and that's it that's the end it's like what the fuck after all that then we get the oracle and the little girl and she's like tell me another story about the shepherd and then it ends oh yeah because they're like come on let's make some more of these I'm curious why they stopped actually because the film didn't flop is still made money as far as I'm aware and not sure why they didn't pull like an alien four and just like keep going well I mean artistic integrity

I don't know they gave up on they made some video games she moved on they made a lot of money yeah it used to just be oh we wanted to tell that story and now we're done. It was the trilogy. You wanted your trilogy. Uh-huh. People wanted a conclusion. Yeah, but now it's all cinematic universes,

so that's why it's coming back, I suppose. They want the Matrix cinematic universe. Keep it going forever. Nah. Be better if it was just one. Do you think this could turn into something like a cinematic universe? They could make 10 more movies out of this?

You could argue that the Animatrix is kind of that. Oh, yeah. Maybe they'll adapt a lot of that stuff into movies. Honestly, a show probably would be better. Yeah. Yeah, Netflix thing. Keep it a bit more.

They'll do a bunch of stuff. Yeah, they'll license it to Disney Plus. Hopefully not Disney will just buy the Matrix rights. Disney buys Warner Brothers. Notice how we're doing everything on our power to avoid talking about this third film. So what else really happens? There's the scene where he gets blindfolded because his eyes, he gets blinded, doesn't he? Yeah.

So he doesn't have to cry at the end when his, when Kerry and Moss dies. That's all I kept thinking like oh he can't emote at all on this scene huh? Oh, that's so funny Hmm It might be why I think that's why That is a really bad scene That has no impact

When she does I wanted to tell you I loved you I think that yeah It's the cheesiest shit What's happening with him and Trinity Feels very forced throughout the entire film There's a lot of bad dialogue between them.

Oh yeah. Six hours ago, I was ready to die for you. Do you know what's changed in the last six hours? No. Nothing. No. Okay. Shut up.

What are you talking about it? It was really, really cheesy. But you can't build like a realistic relationship when the two characters are saying shit like that to each other because it's not how real people talk. Yeah. It just didn't work for me. It's a prophecy relationship. Yeah, they're destined to be together.

Yeah. So it doesn't actually matter if they have. chemistry. Exactly. And what's their mission? They're like heading into like the heart of the... Fuck if I know. And they're like torts and floating spiky ball or something, right? Yeah, I don't know. It's, I don't know why... I don't know why there's like a big baby face. Oh, the baby, thanks for reminding me about what the fuck? I don't know. It's just, it's a weird design choice. He's ending all of the second. That, that to me is like one of the worst part. It's like cartoony and bad that CG baby face.

Yeah, it doesn't look good, like aesthetically or animation-wise. Yeah, it's kind of the jump the sharp moment if there hadn't been one before. Yeah. And then by the end of it, it's like, I don't know, even with him fighting Agent Smith at the end, it's really not as fun of a fight scene as any of the other times he's fought Agent Smith. Because they're both like flying around. Yeah, no. It's, it reminded me of Man of Steel.

pick and choose the limitations of their powers depending on any given moment sort of thing what damage are you really doing what can you really do it just felt really yeah it's just a lot of punching yeah but i mean for the time it there was a lot about it that looked really cool like the slow-mo like a dragon bulls punching shot like you didn't have a a face being punched that was created in cg that looked anything close to realistic before this point and it doesn't look great now. The rain effects were kind of cool. Oh yeah, the rain effects too. Yeah. There was also kind of like they used the rain to hide the bad CG. Yeah, probably. Which they didn't do so much like in the first like that last movie when

they were fighting like all the clones, Asian Smiths, it was like a million of them. Like it was broad daylight. So maybe they learned from that. Like let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, let's do it like at night in the rain. Like I guess you could say that's cheating, but I think it works better for like the audience watching it. You know. just to be more immersed in it, even if it's darker and, like, harder to see. Yeah, because they did that with, like, Jurassic Park for the visual effects, the, like, that T-Rex scene in the rain, like, that's what makes the scene still look pretty decent now

when a lot of visual effects, when they're brought to the forefront, do look pretty weak when they're so obvious. Yeah, that fucking Jurassic World movie looks like shit. Oh, yeah, yeah. Both of a great comparison, yeah. Yeah, mostly in broad daylight. Mm-hmm. There's more to it than that.

But yeah, there's a lot of reasons that movie is inadequate. Most of what's going on story-wise is just annoying in this movie. And I do like the whole mex suit fight scene thing. That's probably my favorite part of the movie. I don't like that they brought back the French pervert from Catwoman. It was really weird that he was back. I find it absolutely hilarious. I think I laughed out loud when the character who's being controlled by

Smith in the real world. His name is Bain, by the way. When he's like revealing himself, he's like, Mr. Anderson, you tried to kill me before. And I watched you die. And I don't know how it was possible that you got up.

And Neo has not figured it out. And he's like, what? What are you talking about? It takes like 10 minutes for him to be like, oh, it's Agent Smith. Uh, it was just, come on. dude it was so funny uh i got a fair few laughs yeah yeah there's a couple there's loads of dumb moments like that for sure don't have a hell of a lot of notes for this movie because i i'm i think it's

telling yeah just the way we've noticed how when we were talking about the first movie it was like we just jump straight to the positives we're just gushing about it no stop yeah then you get to the second movie and the third movie and you can barely even recall what happens because it's so forgettable because it it is it fails to continue the story story in an interesting way. Poorly structured. Yeah. Could have been done in just like one more movie, honestly, instead of two.

Easily. I'm sure there probably is a fan edit that exists of two and three with all the guff cut out. Guff. How is that another one? I've never heard that before. Do you guys not say guff? Come on, Ralph, you know guff, don't you? No, sadly, I've never heard guff.

What the fuck does that mean? Filler? It's just like a thing. It's just like a thing. It's just guff. Like filler, like shite, yeah. Yeah. It's like Maron.

It's like, it doesn't mean anything. Yeah. Yeah. I give this movie one star. Yeah, I'm with you one star. Terrible. It's funny, though. I think it's worth watching if you don't mind ruining the first one.

Like, this is my other recommendation. If you want to see the same filmmakers totally miss the mark. This is my ultimate recommendation. Watch the first movie and watch anime. matrix and then just stop. If you're in a position where you've never seen them, if you've never seen them and you just watch those and you really don't feel tempted, just don't do it.

Like, seriously consider it because I don't think it will really change much. It might only just make the first one worse to you, like it kind of does to me. Yeah. Yeah. It just depends what you're looking for out of those movies. If the world really interests you that much that you just want to see more of it, then I think these sequels do a good job of like hanging the world. on this like really bland epic narrative like Lord of the Rings type shit but I connected to the

fucking action scenes and just the simplicity of it and the filmmaking yeah the first one and none of this works for me none of this this is like the like the total opposite end of what I wanted from the Matrix yeah yeah it's like all the crap and none of the stuff I liked yeah I'm not I'm not super annoyed by it by the same from for the same I also appreciate people like it. I don't love it. I don't love it. It's like there's a lot about it that's just like, wow, that's bad.

Dialogue, story, structure, pacing, etc. But I still feel like it is, you know, a conclusion to the overall story in universe that I love, even if it's not the most satisfying conclusion, for sure. There's a lot about it that's incredibly unsatisfying. But yeah, it's not, it doesn't, it doesn't really, really, upset me as much as you guys. I'm able to laugh at it and be like

man, that's kind of bad, but it's still kind of funny. In the same way that some of the scenes in like the Ramey Spider-Man movies, I feel that way, except it's, you know, more throughout this movie. It's like product of its time sort of thing, and I

still love the tone and I love the music and I love the style. I love the color palette. I love the way it's shot in a lot of instances. Yeah, five out of ten. Not great. Probably closer to a four than a six.

It's a pretty weak trilogy, I think, overall. But without the first movie, there ain't much there. You know, they take the first movie out, the trilogy is pretty... Yeah. I still think that there's value. Even without the first movie, the story wouldn't be much, obviously. But, you know, a lot of the aesthetic choices,

a lot of the stylistic choices. I still really love. Yeah, I can see it. All right. So I guess we did it. Yeah, we did. That's that. The Matrix is...

It's a good, good conversation. Matrices. An hour of 50. That's good. Yeah. Just about the Matrix. I'm curious what the fans think, actually. I'll be looking on Reddit and comments on this one.

Yeah, we'll see. I don't know how many are going to defend me or not, but... want to do like two or three questions we're already pretty fine to do a couple yeah if you want to leave your own questions for us to answer on future episodes of sad onocas head over to the reddit where ralph will leave a thread you can ask whatever you like let's do this one then from just n1k who says what is the single best special effect you have seen in a movie that still impresses you no matter how many times you watch it. It can be practical or CG. It can be an entire scene, a specific moment, or shot from a scene, a practical slash CG creature or character, etc. That's a great question. The under the skin special effects, like still blow me away, even if they're really simple. Like the black background, first of all, and like the void area was crazy, like how they did that. And then, like at the very end, there's a part where there's

a skinning? I don't know. You see what's under the skin, I guess. And it's really impressive. Yeah, there's a lot of, seamless. I was like, how the fuck did they do that?

Yeah. That movie's, yeah, got loads at those kind of moments. Uh-huh. Incredible. And it's just for like an indie sci-fi movie. Like, really these incredible effects

like that. It's very impressive. For me, a bunch of scenes in either 2001 of Space Odyssey or the thing. 1980 whatever a lot of those effects are just like mind blowing to me the practical creature effects for the thing

and then the a lot of the effects for 2001 in terms of I guess just the like camera tricks and like perspective tricks to make the anti-gravity thing feel real and the fact that it was made in like what 60s and they did a lot of research into how they didn't even have a full picture of the earth at that point. They were like piecing together what they knew about space and the earth just to make something. It's really cool.

The Lord of the Rings trilogy The Perspective Shots. Like the way that, you know, it's not just, sure, there's some CG for some sequences, but a lot of what happened in that movie was purely just perspective where different sets would be built

knowing that the camera would be built. Oh, yeah, yeah. knowing that the camera would be in a certain spot for a certain angle, and the rooms would be warped in real life if you tried to traverse through them. Like, some parts would be way too tall at the back and, like, almost like a weird clown fun house. The chairs would be, like, misshaping. Yeah. But the way that they filmed it, it just creates the illusion that Elijah Wood is like four feet tall,

and Gandalf is like eight feet tall or whatever. So. Because the chairs make it look. like they're the same distance from the camera, but he's actually like way further. It's so cool. Yeah, very well thought out. Did you ever see the behind the scenes of The Hobbit where Ian McKellen, like, is taken nearly to the point of tears because they're, he's on like a green screen instead of them doing

that perspective stuff. So there's no actors for him to bounce off. No, I didn't see that. It's fascinating because it is such like a key reason that those movies didn't work compared to the incredible special effects work that was done. for the original trilogy, so much care and attention. They put that in like an official featurette? Yeah.

No, it's in, because they did, you know, Lord of the Rings has like a ridiculously long suite of behind the scenes videos. They did, they did the same for the Hobbit movies, and I watched them all. It's really interesting, actually. It's probably more interesting than the movie itself, because it is all about how it was all, like, rushed, and they didn't have the pre-production they did for Lord of the Rings. So they did just revert to using CG and shit like that. lame yeah yeah but continuing off your your lord of the rings pick i do actually think uh golem in the

in the in the second third movie is a a surprisingly good tastefully done early example of a cg character really existing um in in a scene and it not being so distracting yeah and the performance really carries that too and even his um his scene in in the hobbit is like a stand out yeah that was great easily the best part of that first movie Oh yeah Yeah yeah And yeah of course like the miniatures and everything from that From Lord of the Rings and all the practical stuff they did there

But I have one more Kind of a weird one That it might be wrong Because I've only seen the movie once And this is the only thing I remember about the movie Have you seen 2013's Enders game? Did you see that? No No

It was like a really generic like action kind of sci-fi movie but at the end I guess it's kind of spoilery there's like this CG creature like an insect and it was like at the time I remember thinking it was like mind-blowingly realistic I don't know if it

still would be that way but that really stands out in my mind as far as like a CG character like a really random example of one people haven't seen it give feedback if that's right or wrong right let's do P-P-067 834 has this to say.

What are your thoughts on the Golden Raspberry Awards, aka the Razzie's? They're basically the anti- Oscars in which they award the worst in film rather than the best. For example, worst director, worst actor, etc. Do you think such an award show should exist? I think it's kind of just as bad just because of the picks. Like they're very bland and like they usually just go after, yeah, too obvious. They go after like one celebrity. It's like Adam Sandler's year or it's Eddie Murphy.

here. It's just like the Oscars. It feels like a like a corporate out of touch room of people. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, it's it's it runs into the same problems as any awards show where it's an awards show, but it's also a business. And if you don't pick titles and actors that everybody knows, then no one's going to watch and your business is going to fail. So they're kind of forced to like any other awards show pick popular titles so they're going to have like Jennifer

Lawrence for the what was that called mother mother right and I don't think she was terrible in that even though a lot of people felt she was annoying they don't truly pick the worst movies for the nominees they pick like popular bad ones

so it's kind of annoying in that sense but I'm okay with it existing it's kind of funny It just feels forced and like I like watching a thing with tastes You know good and bad They should have a segment in the Oscars where they go for bad movies You know like worst movie of the year That's what they should do

It seems like an old sort of early internet type of thing To exist that's just still kind of clinging on and going Yeah Just because it has been It's just an annual thing so why not at this point Yeah it's not like televised is it holds much of value I saw a Holly Berry good speech once

I'm reminded about them is when there's like some annoying clickbait article about this year's results on it or whatever Yeah no strong feelings about it I guess It's just it exists Okay Well Cash 14 has an interesting one

All right Why do you watch films You already know are bad When you go into a film already being aware Of its negative reputation So why do you go and see a movie like, why do you watch the new Lion King? Why do you watch, why did Ralph go and buy the Bluroy of Aladdin?

Because I really want to see it. It's got my favorite actor, Will Smith, from the Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Usually when I'm watching a bad movie, it's because I'm going to at least be entertained by it. In the case of the Lion King, it's because I feel like I have important things to say about it. you know like I'm I bought that movie intending on reviewing it and I've I've got a lot of notes

because I finally watched it it was cancer yeah someone who basically has the original movie memorized I feel like I'll have I'll have a worthwhile perspective you like whole reaction no because I would have loved this nah because I was like pausing and like I had to like aggressively type down notes the entire time like I'm sure I'll have the exact same reaction when I'm going through it and editing anyway So oh oh yeah

Just a couple like a couple bits of me going Ah Like like just moments where I'm caught off guard Yelling about something but yeah It wouldn't be worth like a full commentary or anything Because I'm pausing the entire time Just because something's bad doesn't make it not entertaining Is my answer to the question

You can learn a lot from bad movies Like I've seen so many bad movies at this point that it's it has given me an appreciation for just how difficult filmmaking is and it does make you appreciate aspects of it you might not otherwise and trying to pinpoint aspects of stories that you don't think work for your own reasons is like part of the fun like we just did it with the matrix movies and it's just it's just a fun way of exploring the medium and you can't have the exceptional films like the irishman and the lighthouse without absolute trash like Sherlock and Homes existing or whatever. You need good shit to have the bad. Well, most bad movies I see,

I intend on enjoying myself. Like, I want to see good movies. I thought I was going to watch a good movie. Even if it's something like Sherlock Noms, that doesn't mean it's going to be bad. I'm still looking for like a good experience out of it. As long as it's not boring, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, if it's something like the emoji movie, I'm not going to watch it because it's like I'm not going to get any enjoyment out of it. And I don't have anything to say about it. I'll see it. That people haven't already said. I'm not going to offer some sort of perspective. Just reinforcing, preaching to the choir.

Like, yep, it's bad. You all knew it was going to be bad. Like, why am I going to watch that shit? There's no point in me reviewing it. Whereas, like, the Lion King, apparently a lot of people actually enjoyed. And is the highest grossing animated movie ever now. And I really, I feel obligated to tear it to threads. Yeah.

Well, you should talk about it because you like the Lion King. Yeah. It's like one of your favorite movies. Yeah. What do you care about emoji movies? You have no personal connection. All right. Okay.

We did it. Pretty much answered that one. Cool. We're done. Cool. Whose recommendation? It's mine. Back to me.

I'm going to recommend something that I've never seen before. Apparently, there's people in our audience that want us to see this. It's called Buffalo 66. Have you heard of this film? No. I have not. Okay. Yeah, there's, um, in our little community, I think also like some of the people that run the, um, like unofficial YMS letterboxed or whatever, like they have this, they interact with each other on Twitter and like Vincent Gallo, the director is like almost kind of a meme to them. And they've been asking in our comments section for us to talk about Buffalo 66 and I don't really know much about this director at all. But, um, he's, um, he's, you. directs and stars in this film. It's from the year 2000,

there's like mixed, I guess, reviews. Apparently he's been like, like Roger Ebert has criticized him in the past or something, if I remember correctly, but should be interesting. Oh, he made the brown bunny. Okay. Sorry? Yeah.

Brown, he made the brown bunny. That's like a famous film. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't seen that. Oh, yeah. I've never seen one of his movies. But that's like one I know about. Okay. Yeah, so... I'm not curious to see what this is. It's on iTunes,

so that's probably where I'm gonna get it. I don't know if it's never a region. Any of that nonsense? Yeah, I think there's only one version. I don't think there's any alternate versions or anything. Who knows? I don't know what I'm in for, but I guess I need to see one of his movies

at some point anyway, so... Christina Ricci is in it. So that should make things interesting. All right. Buffalo 66, everybody, if you don't want to be spoiled for Buffalo 66, the next episode, watch it before the episode's out. We release episodes every two weeks. You can get them a little earlier than that. If you support us on Patreon or on our website, sardonicast.com, sign up for premium, $2 a month.

You'll get these episodes early when they're edited also on Patreon. It's the same thing. Also, we got merch. It's almost Christmas. Get the merch. Your grandma. Needs a Sardana cash shirt. What are you thinking? Yeah. That was a really good discussion on The Matrix. Yeah, enjoyed it. That was dink.

All right. Well, bye-bye, everybody. Thanks for listening. So long. Peace. Thanks, everybody.