Sardonicast - Sardonicast #55: Waves, The Wizard of Oz

Episode Date: March 9, 2020

Ralph, Alex and Adam answer some fan questions and discuss The Wizard of Oz & Waves.

Three, two, one, there's no podcast like Sardonicast. There's no podcast like Sardonicast. There's no podcast like Sardonicast. Ooh. I tried. Something really culty about that. I know, right? I was like, I don't know.

I could have said there's no place like Sardonicast, but it's not really a place. I could have said that. But I guess now we have a chant for our brainwashed followers. I'm Adam from your movie sex This is Sardana cast, what's up? I'm Ralph, meet the dark house of the movie maker And I'm Alex from I, G I got a question for you, Adam

Uh-oh I was just thinking, I was pondering about this last time I sent my audio over Yeah For you to edit I was wondering if You ever hear any really gross noises From Ralph Oryorai

When you go through it Oh, this is a good question The grossest noise you've heard I know I lips smack a lot Yeah, you do. But I can't help it. Yeah, that's fine. I've become more efficient at getting rid of them.

But yeah, it's, so as I'm, like, working through the audio, removing the noise, like the background noise and, like, compressing it, it brings up a lot of the lower levels. And so I wind up, depending at, you know, certain points in the audio, you can hear, like, breathing or, like, gratching your chin or something like that. I've never, I don't know if I've heard any noise that's like particularly gross. Mostly just like, like lip-smacking noises or sometimes Ralph's dog will bark or sometimes there'll be a siren

Policia. Creaky chair or I don't know. There's a variety of things. Sometimes sometimes it'll sound like something fell on your mom. Mike Ralph. I'll be like, what was that? Yeah, it's not bad. Like, I've never heard a gigantic fart

if that's what you're wondering. Who's going to be the first? It's got to happen one day. I think I'm the one that makes the gross noises all like just burp. We're like, do something like that. And sometimes edit it out.

If it's funny or not. I feel like you, as like an editor, you build up just a resilience to anything. sound related like that? Like, people have been in the room when I've edited a video before and they're like, does that not drive you crazy? Because you tend to just like repeat like the same second over and over again and get it

right. So you're just used to that repetition. So it's weird to think about from the outside perspective sometimes. Yeah, because I do stream my editing. A lot of people ask that question. It's like, how does this not drive you insane? Or how do you not hate your own voice? You just kind of.

You get over that quick. Yeah, exactly. It's all a matter of, like, what is normalized or what is, I guess, a part of your routine. It's weird to be, like, surprised or taken aback by something that's, like, so constant. Yeah, yeah. So you were saying, before we started recording, that your entire past week or two has been 13 reasons why. Yeah, yeah. I've been a long time fan of the series.

if that's the right word for it but I've been bouncing around the idea of doing a video on season three for ages now because I think it's the funniest season to me I think that's my conclusion what do they do this time oh man it's like a murder mystery

this season well it was kind of a murder mystery to begin with a bit more like whose fault was it that Hannah Baker committed suicide that was this original story and then second season

and was like this really boring corkers. Yeah. Yeah. But then season three, it's all about the murder of the person who was responsible for Hannah's death. Wow. I mean, everyone was responsible for Hannah's death, weren't they? Yeah, true. That's what the show was trying to imply anyway.

Yeah. Yeah, Bryce, he's like made into a real, like, main character. He's one of the main characters in season three, and they tried to add, like, a sympathetic slant to Which is really weird. It's so funny to me. There's literally a scene where he breaks into someone's house and it turns out it's the wrong house and then he threatens a child with his life. And then like the next scene, there's like this innocent playful banter with him and his mother

like innocently painting a room. I'm like, what the fuck? Like what's the consistency of like, what do you want me to believe? Yeah. Like I can't forgive this guy at this point, man. Like you've written him as such a cartoonishly evil person. The entire show is just so backwards and like incredibly immoral if you start to break it down. Yeah, every episode starts with that like warning with the actors really seriously being like just remember if you need help go here.

And then the show starts and it's the most melodramatic over the top ridiculous like East Enders kind of nonsense. It's like you've really bat yourselves into a corner of guys. Just let it die. Stop. Yeah. It's weird because it's popular enough that they just want to keep it going, but they don't know how. And so now just the plot line is the most ridiculous thing in the world. And I don't know what these writers are trying to do, honestly.

I don't know what type of side that they're trying to like... Yeah, just keep it going. That's all that matters. I really don't know if they even have like a any like real slant anymore. It's just like, well, they're going through the like list of dramatic. political ideas at the moment. Like it's like abortion and college. Yeah, they're going through like just the list

and they're quickly running out of them. Like they've done pretty much all of them in three seasons. It's ridiculous, man. Yeah. The spring fling was going to get shot up and then it didn't because the main character just talked it out with the school shooter and then they decided not to tell anybody about it

even though they were paranoid and they thought that he had a gun in his bag for like an entire episode in season three but they still didn't tell anybody about it they just love covering up crimes for no reason I really didn't understand why the they like every main character really vouched for that school shooter guy

they were like really like putting their necks on the line for him and I really didn't understand that because the shooter kid didn't have like any strong relationships really with any other characters so it felt really forced for them to do that just as a way to get around the fact they even included that shocking aspect of like what looked like was going to be a school shooting. Yeah.

I don't know. I watched through all of season three and did like the whole commentary thing. I think I found season two funnier though. I think season two is more enjoyable as in like from a humor perspective. It's the court stuff for me that's like just more boring in my mind. Season three was like they introduced that new like lead character. the British woman who's really annoying who comes in and it's like, why are you necessary to any of this?

She's not. And she's kind of a bad person too. Like, everyone is so unlikable. There's like only one or two characters that have any sense in the entire show, and any time they speak any truths or sense. They just get silence by the rest of the group and then they just leave.

It's really funny. It makes it worse because this is intended for a younger audience. Yeah, absolutely. do they find out or do you find out who the killer is at the end and doesn't make any sense you don't have to like spoil how it is you do find out the truth and it doesn't make any sense or is it it's ridiculous it's all very stupid and there's too there's so many like obvious red herrings or whatever there's so many yeah obvious uh little setups for each episode it's like okay well we're clearly not going to figure out who killed them in episode five out of 13 so this

isn't it? You're just wasting time right now. They do this stupid thing where they change the aspect ratio between past and present. Oh, like homecoming to it. And like half of the show, maybe even more, takes place in the past. But you'd expect the present to be vivid and colorful in the past to be like undersaturated and like bleak color-wise. But they reversed it, and it's really confusing. It's like the opposite of what logic would dictate for presenting those kinds of scenes.

It's clearly like just rushed out just for a new season. I've got to get one out every couple years or so every year. Yeah, I wonder if the color correction and aspect ratio change was like a last-minute decision when people realized that nobody would have any idea what the fuck is going on. Did they not do that in the other seasons? I don't think so, no. It was new for season three. All right.

Just the plot line got so convoluted that they needed to do it. It is like getting to sore levels where... Oh, yeah. They're just making stuff up to such insane degrees and filling in... They're telling the story through like flashbacks, which is like so annoying after a while. It's like, clearly there was no through line or planned any of this. You're just making it up as you go along. So it's just nothing's earned as a result.

Let's see how long they keep it going for. Yeah, exactly. It's only going to get more and more convoluted. Like the Saw movies. Five, six seasons. Yeah. Yeah. It will only get funnier.

Yeah. I'm hoping, like, I don't know. Saw is really special in the sense that it always stays true to the original plot line. It's constantly retconning itself and rewriting what actually happened to the other movies. Yeah. Whereas 13 reasons why it seems like they just abandoned what the show is about and they're just doing whatever the fuck they want. And it's still, like, really confusing and stupid. but like it might as well be a completely different story

with different characters at this point. Like this whole Bryce plot line doesn't have anything to do. That's what I thought they were going to do, honestly after season one was like have some kind of story where Hannah Baker's suicide was so like publicized and so famous that it like inspired other people or something. Well. To start doing it. It was about one of them even though that happened in reality.

She's off filming real movies now. She's doing like knives out. And a deleted scene from Avengers Endgame. So she's in real movies. Really? Yeah, there's a deleted scene. She was like Iron Man's daughter, but like older. Oh, okay.

Oh, wow. Yeah. She loved him 3,000. It's an interesting bit of law. Yeah. Hannah Baker is Iron Man's daughter. Yeah. This opens some doors, man.

Explain so much. Did you guys see the trailer for the new, Saw movie or Yeah, I was going to mention that because we were talking about Saw. From the Book of Saw. Spiral from the Book of Saw. So the Book of Saw

is like, I guess they call it the Saw Bible too. It was like what they made up that they write the entire Saw story in this book and then they made movies out of it. But really they just made it up as they went along. And apparently this is like based on that. It's based on

something in there. There's an actual book and it's not just a part of a title? What are you saying? No, they said it was the Saw Bible. You never heard of the Saw Bible? I've never heard of this before. In like a featurette, they were saying that? Are you sure that's not like a...

Well, I think it might have been a fan-speculated thing, but whenever these movies came out, they were like, oh, yeah, the whole Saw story is written out in the Saw Bible, and we're going to uncover it over the course of these seven movies. But really, it was a bunch of crap. They just made it up as they went along. I press X to doubt. Okay. I'm not sure.

I don't think there was a real Saw Bible. Yeah. They definitely did not have things planned from the first movie. No, no, definitely not. Actually, all these other characters were helping jigsaw the entire time before the movie even happened. If you just panned the camera over to the left, you'd see Amanda. You know, like, or Hoffman, or any of these other billion characters

that were all just there from the beginning that you never saw. There were three. That helped them out. That's why I love Saw. It's just because it keeps rewriting itself and becoming more and more ridiculous. And nobody understands what the fuck is going on in those movies. I consider myself to be a bit of a Saw connoisseur here, a Saw expert. Because I actually understand what's going on, but it is so complicated.

And I just love the idea of like, you know, people that showed up watching the Saw movies every Halloween. It was like, oh, it's Halloween. Let's go watch a horror movie. Saw 4 is playing or something like that. People just show up to these movies. They might not be familiar with the first movies. They might have watched them and not really understood everything that was going on. And then all of a sudden you have like the twist at the end.

The music plays. Dda-da-da-da-da. Shows a guy from like Saw 3 out of nowhere. And people in the audience are like, who the hell is that guy? And things are like supposed to be kind of like revealing this twist, but nobody can really follow what's going on. That's why I love those movies so much. And I'm upset because it seems as though they're not going to continue with that.

It seems like they're done with that. It really does. I don't know if Tobin Bell is going to be in this new one. Chris Rock is in it and Samuel L. Jackson is in it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it seems more like a kind of big budget, more serious is the wrong word. But they've attracted talent. You know, like there was a long string of saw movies that they didn't have no

Samuel L. Jackson or Chris Rock or, you know, any of these big name actors. Danny Clever. Yeah. It's concerning because it's clearly just following that trend like, you know, Fast and Furious doing their spin-off site, Hobbs and Shore and just from the book of sort, you know, from the like a Star Wars story, that kind of shit. And the poster looks like... It's a soft...

Rerunner? Yeah. Very strange stuff, but... You do have to take it a new direction at this point because that Saw series has a bad reputation. But why not just reboot it with... I mean, like, it's concerning without Tobin Bell if he's not in it, because he's kind of like, yeah. Yeah, exactly. He is the series, right?

If he's not in it, that's lame. Nightmar on Elstreet without Freddy Kruger. Exactly. Yeah, or the Jason Forhees or Michael Myers. He's not really, it's not like him going around stabbing people, but he's such a big part of it. Yeah. He's on every poster. The movie is more about the villain than it is about the main characters.

The main character is cycle every single film. Like, nobody gives a shit about them. they just die he's a good actor too he's like easily the best actor in any of those movies it made his career and he works really well for the role Tobin bell just is jigsaw

that's that's who he is now you know he's very good I'm expecting them to pull some bullshit like Samuel L. Jackson is the new jigsaw like oh that might be why they got him

that actually makes a lot of sense you can get a big actor can sign them for multiple movies. Mm. Yep. I don't know how I feel about that. I like that idea. Unless Chris Rock is

a jigsaw, but I don't think they're going to do that. Marty is jigsaw. I like the sound of that. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. How many dramatic roles has Chris Rock done? Three. Other than Madagascar.

Okay. None. I don't know. I can't really think... The only thing that pops into my mind is that Kanye's song who randomly is in at the end. Oh. Which is nothing to do with movies.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know how much I'm going to be able to take him seriously. Because even in the trailer, I'm not, like, sensing too much of a great dramatic performance from him. Like, I'll see how it is, for sure. I'm going to watch it. Also, it's not coming out Halloween this time. Yeah, I was going to say... It's weird.

It's weird. Really weird time. Really weird time. It sets kind of a different tone entirely for the movie. It's like, do they want us to take it seriously now? Yeah, I don't know. Is it like a drama? Yeah, maybe it's going to be more of like a thriller mystery and there won't even be any

gore or something. Yeah, that's possible. That is entirely possible. I mean, that kind of torture porn thing is not popular anymore. So they might not want to go that way. But at the same time, it's not like Saw lost money on any of their movies. Like, they were so inexpensive. They're so cheap to make.

Yeah, exactly. They just decided to stop after Saw 7 because paranormal activity was more successful. I wish they would have kept going. Yeah, they came out back for like one really crappy movie that I hate. There's a Saw subreddit that is much more active right now after the spiral trailer. And there's questions that people ask about the timeline because it's so confusing and convoluted that people need help. And every single time I read it. in one of those threads, there's always, you know,

like heavily upvoted posts and comments of people being like, yes, this is the timeline and I hate that we have to consider the jigsaw movie Canon. It makes it so much more stupid. Yeah, it makes no sense. The rest of the plot, however, one through seven, they all made all over $100 million, which is pretty good. And they were so expensive to make.

Saw Six. is like maybe the best one other than the original. Saw Six made the least money. I know. Which one saw six? What's the, what's like the gimmick? That was the one with the,

was it like a, oh my God, I forgot the name of it. It's like a wheel with a shotgun. Yeah, there's a merry-go round. Marygo round, that's it.

Oh, yeah. And the overarching plot is, it's like a weirdly political movie for Saw where they, oh, so about insurance. Yeah, they dabble in the health insurance thing. And then the first trap that we see,

is like basically jigsaw has made this whole thing for this CEO guy of a health insurance company and he's like you deny people their claims based on preexisting conditions and and the first thing he does is he sets him up against the janitor and a fight to the death over who can who can hold their breath the longest and the janitor's this fat guy that's been smoking for his entire life meanwhile the CEO is just like some healthy guy it's like yeah Yeah, jigsaw's code. Make your choice. Make your choice liver die. That's not really a choice. I guess Hoffman set up that trap. It's very... You can't even like attribute it to Tobin Bell.

The plot's all over the place, man. But I've got it figured out. It's very, it's very complex. It's very intelligent. Oh yeah, and it has the best, the best scene of acting where, like, the two... The two blonde women in the film that don't feel like actors have this conversation with each other. And it's like they're acting off nothing. And it was like a journalist, I think, the other woman.

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. They just talk in her apartment. Yeah. That was hilarious. Oh, man. I love that series so much.

I just want them to continue in the same direction they were going. I don't want them to change. Continue that story? Yes. Yes. I would like that too. I mean, I even appreciated how Jigsaw kind of continued it and made an excuse for Tobin Bell to be alive like in the movie, even though it made no sense. It was, I hated that twist so much. Yeah, it makes no sense, but it was just an excuse to have Tobin Bell in the movie. It not only made no sense.

The alternative is like what you said. You could have a clone or his twin brother, but that would be, I think that'd be too far. I think what I like about Saw is it's just plausible enough to be like stupid, but. But you're like, okay, I can't understand why they took it that way. Twin brother would make enough sense. You wouldn't have to go into the realm of supernatural. No, it would be so perfect. Because then you would have an excuse for Tobin Bell to be alive again. The biggest mistake they ever made, or possibly the greatest thing they ever did,

was them deciding to kill off Tobin Bell's character in Saw 3. Because they had no idea that they would keep going. They were like, ah, it's a trilogy. He's dead. And then every single movie after that point was either like trying to, justify how the entire movie happened and was planned from when Tobin Bell was still alive and he's still pulling the strings or the Hoffman character now stepping in and doing a bunch of these things for him. And that's why I hated the twist in Jigsaw so much is because, is not just because

it's stupid, but because they already did that twist at the end of Saw 4. That was the twist then, was like, actually, this took place before he died in Saw 3. And then at the end of Jigsaw, I was like, actually, this took place before Saw 1. And this was the first big trap, actually, even though the televisions that were used in this trap were clearly more modern than any of the ones that he used in the first one. They were like screen HD TVs and shit. Like, fuck off.

That made me so mad. And I was mad at them for not taking the opportunity to have Tobin Bell alive again. I was hoping that Jigsaw would be this jumping off point to be like, now it can continue again flourish you know he's back but he's not back i i want it to be stupid and just just give me what i want that's all you know maybe maybe we should start a twitter mob you know they fix the sonic movie so we can do anything we have the power well let's see what happens in spiral for saw you want to do it yeah start a start a petition when is enough enough okay I don't know.

We'll have to see what it is. I guess I'll watch it. I'm kind of more curious now than I was for like that jigsaw movie. Because it's just weird. Like, it's strange. This existence is weird. The fact that like Chris Rock is on. Yes, it's like really weird what is going on with that movie.

So we'll see. I'm just disappointed it will be something so wildly different from its roots and that's, you know, they say. spiral from the book of saw that's almost an implication right there so yeah it might not even be a gorgeous they have hidden did you uh did you want to talk about waves uh yeah we could do um i i only saw it today yeah three or four hours ago um on like blue ray or fresh in my mind uh yeah yeah um spoiler discussion i really enjoyed the movie um it's it's quite overwhelming like in my mind um it's it's quite overwhelming like in my

emotionally. Yeah, so because I don't really watch trailers or engage in any pre-release material, I had no idea what I was really in for. I'd seen this previous movie. It comes at night. Is that what it's called? Which I really enjoyed. But this is very different tonally,

although there are some choices that really worked in it comes at night that kind of carry over, like, the aspect ratio kind of change things. You like to play with those. Yeah, which is really effective. I thought how it was implemented in the movie. but the movie kind of shifts halfway through. It's connected to the first half, but more kind of tangentially, you know,

with this idea, I guess, of the title, the waves of how almost similarly to last episodes movie, the Mayo Witts story, Sto, Mayo Wits, where, you know, it's about how people are like forged through, you know parenting and the way it affect like the family dynamics of everything and the first half being about um what's the actor's name because he's kind of the lead for the first

half yeah he was the he was in it comes at night too yeah yeah yeah um i really enjoyed and he was such a good actor that the director wanted to make a whole movie just with him there's loads of really great showcases of just acting you know yeah so very actor movie lots of really intense scenes of the entire kind of emotional spectrum because that first half i do think is is more entertaining and more kind of electric than the second half which is more kind of slow and contemplative and emotional and more kind of hopeful to be honest because the first half is is like a spiral downwards and the second half is almost more of like a spiral upwards yeah it's incredibly stressful for the first half yeah but it's really a

effective with all the like intense like music and the pace of it and the like camera work and everything like that it's very very moody and very it's very a 24 you can say that much about it but i was actually very pleased that because i i've been saying about how as much as i enjoy ariaster i do hope he isn't just like that horror guy forever and it's nice to see one of these a 24 kind of directors come out and prove there's some there's like a wide range of ability there which is like i think a real skill yeah it's just a drama there's no no horror aspects no action an ambitious one too yeah yeah it's it's a real shame that it kind of got buried by a 24 it didn't really get much of a theatrical release it wasn't really that heavily promoted they didn't do a big oscars campaign for it nobody like i would have loved to have seen some acting nominations cinematography was like amazing i really loved how it was shot. Great editing. The sort of like spinning kind of merry-go-round-esque shot in the vehicles.

Just like really gets my mind thinking about like how those scenes were shot. Like I guess there must have been some sort of like pivoting attachment on the top of the roof of the vehicle or like the interior. And just like a really tiny camera with like a wide lens or something just like spinning around and like. like either controlled by like a remote or something. I don't know. Like there were a lot of shots in that that I was like, damn, that looks really cool.

And it really got me thinking about them. There was also like little details like just the way, I thought the way phones were used in the movie was really realistic. The way people were texting and there were mistakes and texts and they were like sending extra texts with, you know, fixes and stuff. And it was quite like an important part of. the movie like lots of communication through phones and I feel like we're getting quite good at displaying

that now because there was a time where these early like I'm reminded of that Miley Cyrus movie it's called LOL yeah that's right yeah oh god like that's like hashtag horror yeah the text comes up on like in front of the yeah exactly where the actors performing yeah it's dated now but it yeah it felt very genuine uh-huh one of the best scenes is when they break up basically over texting yeah and there's like music playing and he's like over texting and you could tell he's panicking just by the way he's writing it's really good mm-hmm it's really well thought out yeah I do remember that it's a very soundtrack heavy movie I would say in the first half but it all fits because I think of like

suicide squad where none of it fits at all and they use like five seconds of fucking Bohemian Rhapsody or whatever and this was like perfect every song choice was like when they were playing a first of all we have very similar taste of music I think me and the director because I love like most of the songs he picked okay great yeah I'm with you uh when was it uh the Kanye West song they play that was probably the best part yeah it was like yeah it was perfect from yeezus or whatever uh-huh i don't normally like that album even but uh the way they used that song was that yeah that's that's perfect for the as like a reflection of this character right now like yeah because that that album is about someone kind of

like snapping and that's exactly what the song sounds like and it made sense in the movie the way it was implemented, along with, like, loads of the songs. So, yeah, I was reading, like, some reviews, and some people were complaining about the music and it feeling kind of muddled and stuff, but I feel like, especially because it's way more present in the first half, there's way more kind of frequent, frantic music use, and then in the second half, it does calm it down.

Yeah, there's still lots of music, yeah. Yeah, there's still lots, but I feel like that kind of shows that it is, like, an intentional thing and not just through, you know, suicide squad level of, for, you know, composing something together. And usually it was in the scene, too. Like, actors would be listening to it, or the radio or on their phone, something like that.

Yeah, it all definitely fit. The soundtrack was definitely curated by Trey Edward Schultz. He obviously, you know, he put those songs in the movie because he wanted them in the movie. It wasn't like an editing choice just later on. Yeah, his movies feel very personal, which is why I say that. Like, his movie, Krisha, apparently he just edited the movie himself, I think.

Yeah, I think so. Which is... It was super low budget. And that's kind of how... That's how this is. He edited himself. One of the person edited it as well. But it feels like a guy just...

It's entirely his vision. It's written by him, directed by him, edited by him. And it's like really impressive to see something with this much personality. Yeah. It's why it works. It's why it feels so unique. Even though it can be like a little melodramatic if handled differently. I was going to...

say although all of the soundtrack choices definitely fit it did feel a little soundtrack heavy at points as in I kind of wanted a bit of breathing room instead of just going like from song to song I felt like at points it did feel like a bit more of a music video than like a film telling a story sort of thing it might not affect me as much on my second watch I bought the Blu-ray so we'll see but that's what I felt the the first time anyway what was your takeaway then of what the overall movie was kind of about to you then it was about you know redemption which was kind of made more clear through the uh you know church sermon scenes and stuff like that yeah something like that yeah i was i kind of liked how i kept shifting in my mind who i was kind of subconsciously

blaming for everything i kept looking for someone like oh this is all their fault isn't it why they're being so ridiculous and like by the end you really understand the situation to such a degree where it's like, man, this really isn't a black or white situation at all. And it's like, you kind of have to really think about this and be objective, you know, and not just jump to a conclusion based on, it touches into that social media angle where, of course, in the first half, it ends with the main character being jailed. And you kind of see all the comments and everything. It's like people breaking down, like a complex kind of exchange of things into such a small little, you know, conclusion.

that, you know, they really have no idea what went down. And, like, it's the word I'm looking for, like, reducing complex things and, yeah, of course. Reductionism and all that is. Oversimplifying. Yeah, yeah. I thought that was, like, an important takeaway for me. It's, like, it's complicated.

All these people are complicated people. And, you know, the characters and the actors and everything, you kind of, you see where a lot of their thought processes come from. Like, the, I really liked the dynamic of the family with the mother, like, not technically not being the real mother but being sort of like a standing for most of their life so she technically is their real mother but biologically she isn't and they had some drama there so it's like a lot of drama that is explored through the dynamics in like a really relatable way like lots of really recognizable kind of character traits and the people i thought

represented in the movie really the characters were very genuine yeah yeah the main characters It's Tyler, anyway, at least the main character for the first half. And there was a lot of pressure put on him by his dad particularly. I guess a lot of people, but his dad mainly. And how that kind of destroyed him and made him do the things, or I guess made him, I guess, build up to that point where he exploded. But then... Yeah, I felt so bad for him at first, you know. Yeah, I did.

I felt bad, I guess, for the dad later on, because at first I thought the dad would just be kind of a one-dimensional asshole. Like, oh, he put his son in this position. But he feels bad about it. And he's like, what did I do? I put all this pressure on my son. And it made him miserable. And it made him anxious and that carried on over into his relationships and other things, too. Because he has that speech to his son, doesn't he?

He tries to explain, like, from his perspective, he's doing it for him. Like, in his mind, he's trying to just improve him. Yeah, that you need to be strong for it. But he put too much on him. to where he was like medicating himself and you know just these ridiculous expectations were put on him and he couldn't take it yeah that doctor's scene was pretty brutal oh the scene where he gets his arm crushed during the match that was pretty brutal yeah every every bit of like exercise or anything to do with that arm after that doctor's scene was like making me wince yeah it was very stressful yeah because you know it what's gonna happen like after that scene it's like shit I know exactly where this is going and it's like watching the car crash in slow motion type thing you can't look away it's like watching a bunch of jenga blocks being stacked on top of each other and you're

like yeah yeah exactly it's getting there it's gonna fall stop it so what what did you think of lucas hedges yeah it was fine he didn't he didn't like run the movie or anything he's ever done yeah okay yeah i'd no issues with him when he when he fits the role it's fine i don't know people expect me to just hate every single thing he does and the first half he's not in it at all so I was like oh is that it is he gonna be in like two shots in the background but then he becomes a major character in the second half of it yeah I don't I don't hate the guy I just sometimes sometimes he's placed in in roles that are a little too complex for him sometimes it doesn't feel genuine did you see been 90s I saw that recently

too. Yeah, I think he was decent in that, from what I remember. Yeah, I thought so too. Did you notice how, I might be wrong, this is just from memory, but I'm pretty sure that with the aspect ratio changes in the film, it follows a very symmetrical kind of pattern where it starts with one, it's like, aspect ratio A, then B, then C, then B, then A again. That's at least what I remember. Which is kind of interesting because you could consider that to be like a wave of its own. So that kind of like fits with the title. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot to think about with the movie.

There's a hell of a lot of dramatic elements in it and all sorts of different like political subjects. Yeah, really great. I just love the way it feels and looks. It's not just like a very competent and professionally presented movie. It's something that's also very passionate and unique. And I love the flowing camera movements that are kind of like Terrence Maliki at points. Somebody mentioned, I guess I didn't fact check this, but somebody said that he worked on some Terrence Malick films before doing his own stuff.

Oh, okay. Which would make sense. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a very compassionate movie, as you're saying. That's what I kept thinking. It is in touch with like the humans. side. All right.

Anything else to say about or should we move on to the next thing? No, it's just excellent. Don't watch it if you don't like lots of people crying. That's my recommendation. But watch it, though. It's very good. Yeah, definitely watch it. Eight out of ten from me. We'll see if that changes.

Yeah, mine's the same at the moment for... I'd say ten out ten. Nice. There you go. Very nice. I know I didn't say a lot, but yeah, it's ten of ten. All right. There was a...

film that was recommended at the end of last episode that we all watched from Alex. So I recommended the 1939 classic, considered one of the greatest films in cinema history, The Wizard of Oz, directed by, what's his face? I've lost it now. well directed by not just one but like five people but mostly by um Victor Fleming man it's got to be one of the most like ubiquitous stories in pop culture I feel like even if you haven't seen the film you've kind of seen the film

I think even the David Lynch movie we did a long time ago didn't that reference the Wizard of Oz a fair amount yeah it is David Lynch's favorite movie Oh, yeah. Yeah, that one. And I get why. Yeah, this must be, is this the oldest film we've talked about? I don't think we've gone before 1939, have we?

Yeah, not in a full discussion. Yeah, so, like, what you imagine in your head when you sit down to watch, like, one of these kind of films that, you know, so ridiculously famous that, like, they exist in a different plane, really than, like, your average film. There's, like, that there's that doubt in your mind that like, oh, this is just going to be old and lame and boring.

But, like, immediately, like, it's, like, it's, like, really great. Like, the movie is really impressive in a lot of, not only technical ways, but just its, like, basic formula. It's just really solid for a story. It's very kind of simple and childish, but that's the point. It's an adaptation of, you know, a book aimed at kids, so. Mm-hmm. It does have a timeless quality to it, which I bet a lot of people say. Even like the things that are harder to defend that have age,

they do have a certain charm to them purely because of how old they're. And they're very memorable. Is the book aimed at kids? I'm not that familiar with the original material. I want to say it is? Yeah, children's fantasy novel. Okay. That's what it's referred to by L. Frank Baum.

Because I heard that the kind of like symbolic. elements were much more present in the original novel, which I kind of found interesting, like the, you know, the representations of Tin Man, Scarecrow, and Lion being like American industrialism and American farmers and politicians sort of thing. Yeah, I was, I was definitely thinking about that a lot during the movie, but I was, I was writing that line of, like, how much am I reading into this, you know, like, I wasn't sure, like, where to draw the line, because I don't know that much history. from around when this book was written so I was projecting stuff onto it

but I definitely was seeing that some of the dialogue makes it fairly overt I thought with like a lot of lines about like straw men or something I thought it was like a double meaning thing there there's definitely like little stuff in there that was like that that's clearly got like

two meanings right there one for children and one for adults but I'm not entirely sure what the full picture is without because like full books have been written on like the meaning of it because it's a you know it's a classic piece of like literature in our culture so there's all sorts of kind of you can sync up pink floyd's album with it is a dark side of moon you've seen oh yeah i forgot about apparently i don't know i'd have to watch it i feel like that's one of those

things where it's like yeah i think i've tried it before i'm like eh not really yeah it doesn't really work there's a bunch of movies that people say pink floyd's dark side of the moon lines up with it's like yeah i don't know it's like it reminds me of that uh room 237 thing where the one guy's like I played the movie forwards and backwards at the same time and I overlaid the clips on top of each other and there are certain moments in the film

where things line up perfectly it's like yeah because Kubrick shoots a lot of his films very symmetrically okay you're going to have certain things in the middle of the frame at the same time because a lot of things are in the middle of the frame Jesus sorry there's a lot to appreciate you about it

on like a less literal level but on just a surface level you have all these great costumes and musical numbers and sets and it's really entertaining so kids can enjoy it too it's like a movie made for everybody basically which is why it's held up as long as it has yeah because it's like you know it's like the avengers isn't it's like 1939's avengers it's like an assembly of these like classic characters and they've all got their quirks and little story behind them um with it all obviously being kind of like personifications of how the character you know like kind of feels in her head with the things she might feel like she's lacking

because the whole movie is like a dream it's revealed at the end which is normally a thing that's like you do not do that but apparently around the time producers kind of force that dream angle in because they didn't think audiences were ready for the fantasy angle because of course around then

you didn't have your Lord of the Rings and all these huge epic fantasy type things it was more goofy in people's minds so they apparently added that section in and like there's a load of like really interesting behind the scenes information about this movie like if you look at the the listing on iMdb there are so many directors listed which is usually like a pretty negative sign when that happens you know like when we hear about it nowadays like what's like solo or justice league like passing on directors and whatnot but here they somehow

managed to make it work um they had like a creative consistency and honestly in watching the movie i didn't really notice any, like, great disparity between, like, scenes. One wasn't really different to other directors, like, at least obviously. Yeah, and, like, there's all these, like, crazy stories about the, all the munchkin actors, apparently being quite creepy and, like, groping Judy Garland and stuff like that. Yeah. There's a lot of, like, crazy stuff that you can read about the movie, like, books you can read and documentaries. They put all the munchkins, like, in one.

hotel right outside the studio Clover City studio. I got a drink there actually. It was pretty good. Yeah, there's definitely a huge list of things that were done in the film that would just not fly today in terms of production

because actors have rights now. Yeah, well the snow the fake snow was asbestos. Yeah. I'm not sure how aware they were that asbestos was cancer. No, they had no idea. Yeah.

This is what it says. This is a quote. Everyone who came into contact with it would have inhaled similar quantities to those working in a functioning asbestos mine. Ugh. So they inhaled a lot of asbestos. Yeah. Wow. Which is fucked up.

Yeah. That's bad, man. Yeah. Wicked Witch of the West fucking got engulfed in flames. With the trap door in the fire. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh, oops, sorry.

I was impressed with like the amount of little people. Like the Munchkins is, it's my favorite part of the movie. There are 124 little people in it. I don't know. Really? Some of them were children though, right? Yeah, it's just so, yeah, some of them were children. But there were 124 little people.

I don't know. I just like seeing something like because you don't see that usually. It's such a bizarre image. And they're all like dressed up in like these outfits. And I don't know. It was like a fever. It's the same. Like, I don't think you could do that now.

And even the new Wizard of Oz movie, they don't have that level of munchkins in it. And that Charlie, the Chocolate Factory movie they made recently, it was just one guy that cloned like a bunch of times. What? Yeah. Well, like, you know, CGI using visual effects, not in real life. That's weird. Make a clone machine. Yeah.

Did you guys watch it in 4K? yeah yeah i got the bluerre i thought it looked very good but it was interesting how how crisp and clean like it is because obviously when i would have seen it as a child it would have been a way kind of older like vhs era kind of look so he didn't see the detail on the uh the costumes quite as well it it makes it more impressive and less at times it does make it look more you know silly at points because like you can see the the seams a little bit but there is just an inherent charm to all of it in my mind anyway because it is like so with the way the film is kind of presented with these like elaborate sets and this like rear screen projection stuff and all these like paintings

and all that there is like a kind of playish sort of feel to the movie where it feels like you're kind of watching like a stage show almost which I think adds to that timeless nature because it it is really charming the way it looks and the way everything's structured and it's funny how like whenever they run towards the horizon they have to like fade it out before they reach the back of the set noticing that's quite funny but it does have a deep and hair challenge they are the model of the house and like the tornado all that was a lot of fun we haven't even talked about the films in color and not that it's the first movie to be made in color but it's a very famous example of like the use of the technicolor process

of the strip. Yeah, vivid looking movie. It looks really good. Yeah, it captures that kind of dream idea quite well. Because there is that contrast, isn't there, when they go back? Unlike 13 reasons why, it's a bit more obvious in this movie. Oh, no. And the colors are just really good and rich,

and the costumes look great. Like, even the ruby slippers and, like, the paint on the green witch or the Wicked Witch. it looked great. I really enjoyed the transition from like black and white sepia or sepia or whatever to color. Sepeia tone. With the like spinning like house miniature thing. Mm-hmm.

And then the twister and all that. Yeah. It was a very, uh, a very kind of playful tone for a tornado scene. When I got to that point, just like these people in the window waving. like, oh, hey, hey, Dorothy. That's also, I kind of enjoy that, like, the reveal that it's a dream at the end. It's not, like, out of nowhere. It's not, like, unexpected, gigantic twist sort of thing.

You know, if you're watching the movie and paying attention, it's like, yeah, she got hit on the head. She's in bed. It's basically going into a dream. The characters that you see are characters that we saw earlier, like hunk and hickory. These weird named characters playing these other guys. Yeah, it didn't come out of nowhere. It didn't feel like completely unjustified. Oh, yeah, of course.

And I love the shot of her on her bicycle. Her introduction was funny. Yeah. Because it's like this visual parallel to her on the broomstick. And I like that she has her own theme song. Like, buta-ba-da-da-da-da-ba-da-ba-da-ba-da-ba-da. I like that. We haven't even talked about the music.

It's like one of the best things about the movie in my mind. The musical numbers is a musical, obviously. What's like your favorite musical number in the movie? The fucking munchkins. Really? Yeah. You're like excessive. That whole part is like incredible.

I think that's the most memorable part. There's something quite unsettling about the like the first munchkin like scene to me. Yeah. It's like so overwhelming. It is intense. Because like they're wearing masks and stuff and these really strange costumes and it's just like a weird set. It's very. it is very like kind of creepy you feel like you're in a new world the spectacle is insane yeah yeah

like what other movie you see over a hundred little people like dance around like that it's crazy I'm glad they didn't really linger on that though um it could have like yeah exactly like it moves on really quickly to you know start establishing the scarecrow the iron man and the lion yeah iron man being my favorite iron man and Alex the lion It is the Avengers. But yeah, they are really what carry the movie and keep it entertaining in my mind. It's like these really fun physical performances from these kind of characters, especially the 10 man to me. It is so silly and childlike, but really charming.

The scarecrow would move around like he had no bones. He would like, you know, flop around. It was very subtle, but it was good. When they have to oil the tin man, that was really kind of disturbing. He's like, can't talk. Yeah, there's some creepy ideas. Oh, yeah. And especially in 4K, when you look at the mask kind of, like, costume that the scarecrow has,

and just realize what's going on, on, like, the face and the neck. Like, I never really put that together in my brain. Just look at a picture right now. I just, like, realize what is happening. this costume or like what's being implied here and it's kind of it's kind of weird creepy in a way it's creepy it's creepy yeah the mask's really creepy yeah getting back to the musical numbers i think my favorite would have to be uh somewhere over the rainbow i really love that song yes the obvious really great yeah it's very good i forgot how long that first section goes on for before they get to

Oz. Because in my memory, it was like, oh, they get to Oz really quick. But they introduced all those characters in her, like, real life. And then she has that song. And it was entertaining even still with all that. It didn't really drag on or anything. No, not at all. It was fine.

Yeah. There's definitely a lot of great songs in this movie. I don't think every song was great. And got to admit that after a while, it does get a little bit exhausting. them singing everywhere they're going it does kind of get like a little bit much for me near closer

to the end of the movie like in the second half I'm like I stop singing but you know there are some really great songs in the movie and they're classics for a reason so many so many classic quotes in the film as well it's just like oh yeah like if you were watching this for the first time

you'd hear a lot of things that you'd already heard before just from pop culture Mm-hmm. We've all seen this movie before, though, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was weird how it actually came flooding back to me watching it.

It was like, oh, I remember every scene of this movie. And I thought I'd just, like, maybe only seen parts of it as a kid or something, but I'd definitely seen it multiple times. Yeah. Because it was all there in my memory. It was something that was on TV a lot. Like, is it, you know, just commercial breaks in between or whatever. I definitely saw the movie multiple times.

I don't know if I'd seen it not. on cable TV or whatever, but definitely familiar with the entire movie before watching it again. Just hadn't seen it in a while. It's apparently one of the most watched films of all time or something. I can believe that. It's a fun movie you could put on for basically any demographic of person. It's one of those. It's not offensive.

It's not like, it's just a lot of levels you can appreciate it on, whether you're looking into it deep or just looking for something entertaining. This is director, too, Victor Fleming. He's one of the greatest directors made in Hollywood. He directed Gone with the Wind. He directed Joan of Arc. He's made tons of classics, and, you know, it's on that level, I think. I don't know how much he directed of it, but it is of that quality. I think he did the main chunk from my understanding.

Yeah, I'd like to know what he didn't do, because there's a lot of other names on it. Yeah, it is very strange to see that many directors credited. Yeah. Something that isn't one of those like anthology type movies. Did Michael Jackson steal the leaning dance move from the Tin Man? Exceeded it first. That's what I was thinking. That's exactly what I thought.

Except the Tin Man probably really didn't do it. He was like, it was probably a wire. I mean, Michael Jackson doesn't really do it either. There's like nails in the floor, basically. Oh, I always thought he really did it. Yeah, it's like, well, I don't think he does. I think it's a stage performance sort of thing where like the bottoms of the shoes You can like kind of hook your feet in to like a

Like a little nail sticking out of the floor or something You're able to like move your body forward and not fall over Otherwise it just defies physics right? Yeah, exactly. And then the nail comes back down through the floor after you're done. I don't know I've got a I've got a munchkin question for you guys So really bothered me

um did you notice when uh they show the kind of baby munchkins um they were nesting they were like in eggs oh i don't remember that really stood out to me because i was like what are you implying that munchkins are like laid they lay eggs they hatch out of eggs they're birds this is really weird look out for that if you ever see it and i'm sure i'm sure at least one of the person saw it So is that just their weird beds or like... Oh, I don't know. They like hatch from these eggs and like fully dressed. They were like in pink outfits.

It's horrible. It's very weird. Did you notice the munchkin that hung himself? Oh yeah, I was going to mention that too. Yeah, you want to talk about this. Someone explain this. It's just a dead munchkin in the background. But there isn't.

Is it true? No. No, it's like there's a bunch of fucking, you know, creepy pasta has existed for a long fucking time. Like early days of the internet and just, you know, even pre-internet, there have always been kind of like urban legend weird things that, especially before the internet, people wouldn't be able to like fact check or verify. And when we had, you know, the Wizard of Oz and the only copies available at one point, we're just like VHS quality bullshit. you know, I'm pretty sure the scene they're talking about where you see it, the munchkin hanging themselves in the background or something, I'm pretty sure that was just like a bird on set

or something, one of those big birds that they got, kind of like ostrich looking things or whatever. Yeah, I don't think a munchkin hung themselves on set and that the people wouldn't notice and then printed the film. Exactly, how they get in the movie. Oops. Yeah, I think that's a bunch of bullshit. They didn't make those movies with that intent back then like oh people are going to notice things in the background upon multiple viewings and when they watch it at home they can freeze frame it and like that was not the thought process back then

Because they know people would just watch it like once and In a theater and that would be it Like there was a point I noticed the camera shadow like on one of the trees I'm like oh they probably just didn't give a shit is they like it'll be in theaters for a year and then that's it I don't think they realize like how far is the future like these films would be viewed and like yeah that we'd be watching them on tablets and like over the internet on your fucking phone on our fucking telephones yeah you can watch it on your apple watch but yeah it's just crazy that's that's why so many uh animators would sneak in things

yeah like what was it i think it was like the great mouse detective or something where the animator snuck in three frames of a topless woman in a window it was either that one or another Disney mouse movie. Animator is a notorious for that, I don't know? Yeah. And then it's like, oops, we have the ability to pause now. Oops. Sorry.

My bad. Did you find the guy who was crying tears of joy to be like, a bit too intense in the moment towards the end of the movie? A bit too intense? Which character was that? He hears Dorothy, like, saying his sad story. And then he's, like, he's so moved by it that he lets them in. And he's like, he's like, he's like, he's.

He's crying so much. Like, his whole face is, like, soaked. Because it's such a jump in emotion, like, randomly. It was very... I thought it was funny. Yeah, it was funny. Yeah, it was surprisingly funny all around, I thought. Like, there's some pretty, like, witty, cute stuff in there.

It's very entertaining. Like, I don't just appreciate the movie. I really enjoyed watching it. I enjoyed seeing all these crazy, like, musical numbers and these performance. and yeah and on that technical level too I really appreciate it I appreciate it as part of film history and you know as a as a work of art it's really well done it deserves like all the acclaim it's gotten yeah for sure I love the part where the the witch very slowly writes surrender Dorothy

in all caps in the sky I don't have to be kind of comical it's weird because like by the end of the film it doesn't even seem like the conflict between Dorothy and miss gulch has been resolved like theoretically the next day she's just going to show back up and steal toto again like i don't know the movie just kind of ends yeah because the the story there there isn't much to it you know really when you like try to analyze it um it's very very simple in that story book kind of way child story book kind of way with of course it culminating with the the witch being defeated by um like um like water accidentally being... Where did that water come from?

Yeah. I don't know where they came from. The witch death scene. It feels a bit like it's like, okay, the movie's kind of over now. In my memory, I thought of it as a scene where they were like, oh, they figure out that, you know, they need to like put water on her. Just in my memory, like, I thought this. And then they get water and then pour it on her.

But no, it's just literally a random bucket of water sitting right next to them. Do you think that's what inspired Shamalan for signs? Yeah, probably. Oh, definitely. Yeah, I think that's what that's an homage to. Except in signs it makes no sense. You could argue in signs that it's holy water because the Mel Gibson blesses it

and that the aliens are actually demons. Oh, I haven't seen that movie in a long time. That's a theory anyway, that there's more of like a religious aspect to it in terms of like the subtext more so than supernatural and that they're like demons rather than aliens. Yeah. To rewatch signs now then, I suppose.

I guess so. Anyway. Yeah, Dorothy, uh, Dorothy ends the movie with the brain damage. And, uh, she's crazy. Nobody believes her. She left through a horrible tornado accident.

Yeah, on her bed. It all works out. She just wakes up in her bed. I'm like, what happened between the tornado and that? Like, did they find her in a field? Like, what the fuck? I think the tornado probably. The tornado probably just like barely missed the house.

I think she was just fine because the tornado just went like on a little bit of a different path. Didn't destroy everything sort of thing. And she like had an anxiety attack and passed out? Well, she got hit on the head by a broken window. That's what knocked her out. Oh. Yeah. Like smashed into her head.

It all worked out. I love the, uh, Professor Marvel or whatever. The guy that's like subtly tricking her into going back home at the beginning. That's something that I didn't really... Yeah, yeah. I'm pretty sure. I didn't really pick up on that watching it as a kid just like how he was just trolling her basically, which is kind of funny. Some good practical effects, especially for the time.

Some interesting sets. I don't think the movie did well when it came out. Oh, yeah? It wasn't like a huge hit. But it's become a classic over time. It must have made us a lot of money through, I guess, syndication at this point, being played so many times. People loved it. What do you guys think of Glinda?

She's kind of manipulative. She's kind of an asshole. Yeah. She's like, oh, I couldn't tell you how to get back home. You wouldn't have believed me. I just wanted to manipulate you into killing these people before you left. She's pulling the strings. She's a jigsaw.

She's the mastermind Oh, the Wizard of Oz No, Glinda Who are you talking about right now? The woman who Like shows up And she's like a nice looking fairy Or whatever

Or whatever she's supposed She's like a witch or something Her name's Glinda Oh the one who comes out of the bubble thing Yeah And she basically manipulates Dorothy The entire movie And withhold information from her

In order to get her to like assassinate these other characters Then by the end of it she's like yeah you could have went home the entire time But I didn't tell you you wouldn't have believed me oh okay There's an Aussie Oz world out there man She's kind of an asshole She's so smug too a dumbass smile She loves herself

I said everything Let's rate it and then Let's rate it and then mention What we can remember of the The other Wizard of all related things. Oh, I haven't seen any of the other ones. You guys, go ahead.

There's return to Oz. I haven't seen return to Oz. I saw the James Franco one, though. This one, I would give it a nine out of ten. I take a little bit off for what Adam said about it being a little, like, repetitive or intense, exhausting. That's a good word. Exhausting. Yeah.

It gets a little exhausting toward the metal, but the third act, it kind of pulls around, becomes good again. Yeah. Loved it, though. Yeah. I give it an 8 out of 10. Okay. Well, yeah, and I'm a five, I'm giving it five stars for now.

If I ever go back to it as an adult, I might adjust it, because I did feel it a little bit in the middle where it was like, okay, where's this going before they do the, like, a rescue kind of sequence, which got me back in. Yeah, but aside from that, everything we've really mentioned, it's like a very earnest, kind of honest movie, which is surprisingly holds up very well. considering how old it is now. Speaking of the rescue sequence,

I kind of wonder how commonplace a lot of these ideas that we now consider to be like very common tropes were at that point in time. You have the everything was a dream sort of thing. You have the sneaking in by stealing the guards' clothes and pretending you're one of them sort of thing.

It's like, I'm sure Wizard of Oz didn't invent it. Maybe they did. I would be very, surprised to figure to figure out that that wasn't like something that other stories had done before that point but I wonder if I wonder if like any audiences or anybody would have watched that and been like that's kind of a trope I don't really think that would have been a thought process as much back then because the the archetype like the story archetype the film kind of falls into is like a very familiar and trusted one so you can see the way it's echoed through the the the year is because it is just like a solid foundation for how to tell a fancy kind of story like this like the setup payoffs every character has like a motivation and a change by the end like it's solid stuff the world is fun a lot of fun designs in it and ideas oh yeah and i don't want to

end the discussion without mentioning that i thought judy garland did a really great job in it yeah yeah she was very good really enjoyed her performance apparently she's had a very very sad life yeah yeah because i found out isn't her daughter in um arrested development oh i don't know that's like one of the main characters in it it's very weird like the way it's all linked like that but yeah it's a sad story from my understanding too yeah anybody interested just look up on the wiki i guess because uh we're not gonna go into too much detail about that. Yeah.

You can honestly read, like, just forever about this movie. It's so much. It's so prolific. There's also an interesting article that you can find another Wiki article, talking about how this film is a very important movie in terms of, like, the gay rights movement and gay people back when everybody had to be closeted because you get the shit kicked out of you and murdered if you weren't sort of thing. like people would ask like are you a friend of Dorothy sort of thing to you know kind of as a code to

ask if someone's gay sort of thing like the rainbow that you know was also like very inspired in terms of that becoming like the pride flag and symbolic of the movement but yeah just look look up the article on Wikipedia it's an interesting read that's awesome yeah so you guys saw the other os movies or what none of us have seen return to Oz which from what I understand is a bit infamous for how like kind of weird it is

yeah it's like nightmare fuel apparently yeah like it says Dorothy you say from a psychiatric experiment by a mysterious pill is somehow called back to Oz blah blah

sounds like a fucking horror movie yeah it does yeah but and then Sam Ramey did was it Oz the Great and Powerful Oz the great and powerful starring James Franco pre-cule. Anne Hathaway.

Oh, yeah, Sam Ramey. I keep forgetting that. We mentioned it at the end of the last episode. Yeah, I keep forgetting. Didn't see any of them. I don't remember liking that movie, though, the Sam Ramey one. Yeah, I saw it when it came out, and I noticed there weren't enough little people in it. Not nearly as many as the one.

No munchkins, zero out of ten. No munchkin. Yeah, I think there were munchkins, but they were just like normal guys or, you know. I don't know. I remember that distracted. me like, the movie itself was fine. But the real problem with how that film looked. It started there because it was Disney, wasn't it?

It was like the start of that Disney look, you know, because I guess it was Alice and Wonderland kind of kicked out. Yeah, Alice and Wonderland, I think, started it, and that looked really bad. Oz is like a little bit better because I think the technology got a little bit better. Yeah, but you're right. It was distracting. I remember the movie started with, like, the sepia tone, too.

I don't remember how long we're on for. Yeah, it's not a very memorable or like recommendable movie, to be honest. No. I watched it once and I was like, whatever. It's a Wizard of Oz prequel. I look at the trailer, see how much it's aged. Yeah, it starts out black and white like four by three. So that's pretty cool.

And then it becomes, you know, a bunch of Tim Burton crap with the CGI. They definitely have a certain look. Disney like movies that have gone back to an old property type thing. They're all like from the same machine type deal. The same algorithm. Yeah. I wonder if they could do it again. Like make another Oz movie now.

Michelle Williams is in it too. Do you think they're going to do like a Wizard of Oz remake at some point or is it too sacred? The Wizard of Oz expanded universe where we get a tin man solo story. And you just call it Iron Man. based on the book of Oz the Wizard of Oz Revolutions Wizard of Oz Redux

just shot for shot remake it Reloaded Wizard of Oz cubed Okay we done on Oz We've done with the wizard There's the Oz show on HBO That's about a prison That's supposed to be good isn't it

Yeah Does that have anything to do with the Wizard of Oz No Okay well then Is there no relation to all I don't think I assume it was like named. It's like a really hardcore prison show.

I don't recommend that for families. It's a fucking HBO show. Yeah. Yeah. Don't watch that. Okay then, let's move on to some questions from the community. If you want to leave your own questions for next episode or future episodes, head over to the Sardonicast Reddit, where there's a suggestion thread where you can ask us whatever you like.

Let's start off with this one from M Goldie 12, who says, hey guys. I noticed that Ralph has finally seen a bunch of Ghibli movies, so I wanted to ask all three of you what your favorites are and why. Did you go through the majority of them? I only went through a couple. I saw Spirited Away, Princess Mononokey. And I think I saw one other one, but I forgot the name of it. Those are my two favorite ones.

Yeah. Yeah, that's what everyone said they got those. What did you think, Ralph? Princess Monica Monica, I think is my favorite one. Okay, cool. They're great. The animation is fucking beautiful in them, which I see why they're so famous.

Yeah, they're really entertaining just to look at. And I appreciate both of them on different levels. I like how different they are. How one's like an action adventure story and the other one's like a, like a drama or a comedy. Like very, um, it was just about that little girl. I don't remember much about it, but it was just about like this little girl going to like a fantasy land. Yeah, it's almost like Wizard of Us. Yeah.

And yeah, it was just good on that level. Mm-hmm. Very creative design. of like characters and animation and everything. Really love how everything looks. Yeah, I guess we all have the same answer for our favorite too. Yeah, yeah. I could be wrong on this, but I remember like hearing or reading

or watching a video on how Miyazaki's kind of process is that he just kind of starts drawing storyboards and it just, the story just takes, they just goes wherever it just comes from, like, naturally. That's cool. It's such an interesting idea to me. that must be how he does like a loose framework or something because I'm just thinking about like how you'd make it cohesive but like this it's a really cool idea and very like arty kind of animation mind type thing to do yeah like he draws out little bits of the story and then fills it all in like fills all those frames in yeah it's like it's kind of cool yeah I need to

rewatch Spirited away actually yeah I got to watch that one too I got because yeah I think it's been a year so yeah I need to watch both of those again for sure. It would be nice to get like a 4K Blu-ray. Oh, are they not out in 4K? I don't know. I don't think so. I think I would... It's animated too. I don't think it matters that much, right? I got on a Blu-ray. They made Panyo. That's the other one I saw.

Did they go back and bought the rights to the morgue out or something? I'm not sure. I should look that up. I know they've worked with him now, which makes sense because, I mean, his movies are gorgeous. Why wouldn't they want to work with him? Yeah, exactly. Gremlins 2 asks us this one. what recent movies, let's say, 2019 to the present, do you think deserve the YMS,

Ralph the Movie Maker, or search the worst series treatment, other than any of you guys are currently working on? Damn it. Yeah, you can't cheat for something. So from last year? Yeah, something in your recent memory where you've been like,

I really could make a video on this. The fanatic is one where like, I feel like it's so obvious. And part of me is like, like, don't do it because it's kind of hack material. because I feel like everyone's ripped it to shreds already. Like, everyone knows it's terrible. And, like, I've already made fun of John Travolta,

but the movie's just so fucking awful that... I have considered it often. Like, why don't I just talk about it? Because there's so much to say. It is really fun. Would you recommend actually watching it? Because I keep seeing it. I do.

I do. It's on Amazon Prime, I think, for free. Watch it with my commentary track, bro. I got to watch it with that. Just watching it on its own is hilarious. It makes no sense. Terrible acting. You could tell they just filled in, like, shots.

Like, Travolta wasn't on set that day. It was ridiculous. He drives down the same street, like, ten times. Well, I don't know. If it's something that, you know, I haven't even made so much of a as, like, a Quikion, there isn't really that much that I haven't covered in some form that I've watched. from like 2019, 2020. There's one straight to Netflix documentary

that I didn't cover on my channel called Enter the Anime. And I rated it a one out of ten. Go to the IMDB for that and just read through some of the reviews. It's hilarious. It's sitting at a 2.6. It's so garbage.

It's so bad. It's like literally just one person who was hired by Netflix to make a documentary on anime or something. And the entire movie is basically just like, hey, look at me, I'm on vacation in Japan, and then says like really, really basic things about anime that don't even really cover the history

or its cultural significance in any way, just like, Japanese people really like anime, don't they? And then the entire thing just acts as this vehicle to be promotional for the Netflix anime series that exists. And so most of the documentary just covers that stuff. And not in any kind of like intelligent or thought-provoking way. It's so boring. It's terribly edited.

It's like it really just feels like a child made this. And it's so bad. So that would be my pick. Yeah, mine would be Men in Black International. It feels horrible. Ah. But it's just one of those ones that it's so boring that I don't ever want to see it again. You know, I don't want to sit down and like you just have it.

my life for ages, I just can't. It's too much. I don't get the dynamic of that movie, like the casting. There is no. The casting is just because of the... Well, like, Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith was like... Will Smith is the young guy who's like learning the ropes and he's cool and he brings something new, but Tommy Lee Jones is like the old guy who teaches him the ropes and he's like grumpy.

Like, oh, it's so clear what that is, like just from the poster. And this is like Chris Hemsworth and Tessa Thompson. It's like, okay. it's just what two random guys or like what's going on here just Marvel actors it's like the two Thor characters just again and then in black now

that's such a thing that keeps happening like these weird movies that get assembled because someone like was near where they were shooting like the Avengers and like the cast a few spare days like just random members of like the Marvel family are just in these like awful comedic shift

oh we got Tessa Thompson and Chris Hemsworth we got a men in black movie we want to make. We can just do it in a weekend. Uh-huh. Something like that. Did you see a Hullboy? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. That's honestly worth reviewing. Yeah, true. I know a few people who worked on it, which keeps me away from it. Because I don't want to hurt their feelings. Because, like, when you make, now when I make a review, it's like hundreds of thousands of people watch it. I'm like, I don't, I don't know.

It's like bullying almost to like rip a movement of shreds. Yeah, like 25 minutes or so. But no, just talking about it, like, generally, it's a bad movie. It's really bad. No argument there. Really wrong. Really bad. Everyone's just in agreement, too.

No one is fighting for that movie. No. It says everyone just conceded immediately. Yeah, it's a little extra offensive when Guillermo wanted to make the third movie in the trilogy and they didn't let him. And then they just rebooted it. It's like, damn it. It made a cheap, like, Deadpool knockoff.

almost. Yeah. With no charisma. It was definitely going after that superhero. Deadpool shit. I think David Arbor didn't like the movie. Did he come out saying you didn't like it or something? I have no idea.

I got the sense just by watching it. It's one of these movies that doesn't even feel like it was directed by like one person. It does feel like just, you know, crew just took care of it, you know. It was just made by someone. It exists. And it's got like the Stranger Things guy in it. and like a CG pig monster. It's just a weird film, man.

Neil Marshall directed that? Yeah, yeah, I could tell it was from Neil Marshall watching it. There are some Neil Marshallisms in the movie. Like, it had some, like, fun gore at points. You know, it wasn't, like, I couldn't say that, like, every moment of it was pure joylessness. The majority of it was. I don't know.

I think it's really consistent, though. Like, the gore and the effects are really consistent. Like, I think there was this. pig orc looking guy in it that was kind of cool looking at times but then there was some like when he fought the giants in the field that looked awful

or like the end where there's all these like CGI monsters who pop out of the ground for no reason and then they just go away like they don't fight hellboy or anything they just like massacre a bunch of innocent people and then they go away it's like what was the point of that because it was a R-rated right yeah that doesn't make any sense

I thought it was just horrible yeah man it's like oh we got permission for it to do this like r rated oh cool this ain't your dad's hell boy yeah so they just like get some animators together and put together this like gruesome scene and then they add it in randomly there you go there's your r rating yeah all right next question nick cage for life asks nice do you have any phobias what uh i feel like phobia is quite serious you know like you can be scared of something without it being a phobia i feel like a It's like a real deal type stuff. Yeah, I'm scared of bees.

Bees? Scared of bees? You're allergic? No, I tell people I am. Really? So you're frightened a bee. How do you feel about wasps? Oh, the same thing.

Like anything that looks like a bee or a wasps. Yeah, but any of them. I'm like, about a hornet. Like a massive hornet. Yeah, oh shit. Are you scared of Ben Shapiro? Why would it be? Is there like some bee joke with him?

Really. He sounds like one. I'm scared of that way you don't like B movie then yeah that's why yeah it's not like a phobia I'm not like oh but I don't want to be stung by a B fuck that get that this thing away from me yeah it's pointless and then you have his stinger stuck in you you gotta pull it out fucking sucks I got stung twice in my life I got stung in like a water slide once like one of those like closed in water slides I'm like how the fuck did a B get in there It's like the place you'd least expect to get stung You were stuck with the bee

Yeah It just went down there to fucking stung me And it came out of the slide I was like ah Is that why you don't like Beyonce I love Beyonce What do you mean Yeah I don't like

I don't like heights a lot of the time I don't know if I would consider it to be a phobia It really depends on the context like, I don't know, we were in that chairlift or whatever, in Sundance, I was fine. Yeah. Sometimes if it's like, I don't know, I'm a very tall person, and sometimes there are like balconies where the railing, you know, my hips are like basically at the level. So it's like, if I just lean forward, I'd fucking die. sometimes it's more of just like

call of the void sort of thing going on in my head where you know I think like what if I jumped sort of thing and that just kind of freaks me out really depends on the context or where I am or what my mood is but generally I would say I don't like heights much but

do you manage in like theme parks then like if a bit one of those rides that just goes vertically up like thousands of meters I enjoy those Like, I'm, if I'm, like, strapped into something and I can, like, trust it, like, it's fine. Right. But, yeah, if I'm, you know, on a really high floor of an apartment or something on a balcony.

Yeah, like, it's not, like, so debilitating that I, like, freak out and cower and fear. It's just, like, makes me uncomfortable and puts a lot of images in my brain that I don't like thinking about. Yeah, that's a very understandable one. I get that now and again. I never used to, though. Like, I never used to care about heights when I was younger, but the older I get, I'm just more cautious, I suppose. Not quite frightened of bees, though.

Too much respect for bees. Mm-hmm. Because of Jerry Seinfeld, obviously. We've got a stupid one here from CC Buddy Rider. One of these stupid would-you-rothers. We haven't done one, I don't think, before, so I'll allow this once. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Would you rather piss your pants once a week at random, or shit your pants once a month at random. Interesting. Because I say shit personally. I'd say shit too. Because you could just wear a diaper once a month. Yeah, but it's at random.

You wouldn't be able to prepare for it. It says at random. But even so, that's still better than like, because I'd have to wear diapers anyway for the pee. But that's four times a month. I think you have to wear diapers anyway, full stop. I need more context to this question. Is it a full pee?

Or is it a little bit of pee? Is it a full poop? I like the arbiter of this information. Yeah, full, full pee. Blad of full all the way. Full pee. Yeah, yeah. The real stuff.

Once a week would get annoying. Yeah, that's my logic. Once a month is only once every four weeks as opposed to four, every four weeks. And you're wearing the diaper anyway, yeah. Yeah. You still enjoy being, you know, a diaper guy. It'd be fun. They both sound bad.

neither of them are pleasant Do you know what we call diapers in the UK? Uh-oh, what? Do you not know? No. So we call them a nappies. Nap-y-oh.

I've heard that before. I've heard that. Napes. Napes. That's the only the baby a nappy, will you? That's kind of funny. We're weird people.

I'm sorry. Mm-hmm. Yeah, go on. Piss or shit, Adam. Piss or shit. I don't I always have so much difficulty with these questions and people get mad

I can't stand them but you just got to decide you don't think it out too much do I want to be pissy pants every week or shitty underwear once a month I oh my god this is too difficult for me no you have to choose

that's the that's the game you have to pick I guess I guess poop my pants Yeah Now there's like all this weird audio People can take in Yeah

Fan art Oh no Diper poop in my pants Yeah Okay let's do this one then From Lod Cho underscore XX What movies get away

With being corny I don't know Getting away with being corny Yeah Some movies are corny And you have to accept it Yeah Like Spider-Man

Oh yeah Spider-Man Rame Star Wars. Yeah, that's a good one too. Anything like serially, like Indiana Jones is corny, but that's like what is good about it, you know? Some older films, corny acting maybe. Well, Wizard of Oz has some,

I wouldn't call it dated, but there's stuff off of that time that's like very of that time, definitely. Yeah, like kind of corny. Yeah, just those ones, I guess. That's it. It was the only movies that are allowed. Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like I think things are, corny a lot, but I just forget what they were, even. Plenty of movies get away with being corny. It just depends on what your threshold is, I guess. Yeah, I've got to say, I'm enjoying corniness a lot more as I get older, for some reason. Mm-hmm. Like, the right type of corny. Yeah, it really depends how serious the movie is trying to be.

Yeah, of course. We got a fairly chunky one from the meme walker, so bear with me as I read this. A lot of context for this, I reckon it is not. needed. I usually go to see movies with my father who very dearly loves cinema, as do I. We often get into the same sort of argument when we watch certain movies. The argument usually begins because I think the movie's brilliant and deserving of a high score because of its technical aspects, acting, etc. While my father is of the opinion that that's all fine and all, but that the substance of a movie always comes from the message it conveys, whether the director intended it or not. So the

main question that I'd like to ask your opinion on is this. How big of a role does the meaning of a movie play when it comes to judging it. And if it isn't just trying to say something, doesn't that mean it's vapid or not as interesting? So basically, the meaning is that the most important thing to you? I would not say it's the most important thing. I can appreciate and love movies that have, I guess, goals for their meanings that I would either disagree with or not even consider to be all that profound, I guess. Yeah. Really depends. on the movie. I certainly wouldn't love a movie where the meaning is all it has going for it and every technical element of filmmaking, like the actual art and craft of it, is just garbage.

I wouldn't love a movie just because of its message and nothing else. Yeah, that's why I can't come up with excuses for movies like Southland Tales. Sure, some of these ideas might be like really interesting fleshed out in some forms, but the way it comes together in this movie is just, it's not acceptable, I'm afraid. Yeah. Yeah, it's part of the package. Every movie has a meaning,

even if it's not trying to have a meaning at all. You assign your own meaning to it. So the only thing we can judge on, objectively, is how well the movie conveys its meaning. So I think it's, yeah, it's important, but it needs to be a good film, too. Southlandale's a good example. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm also finding, based on the genre, my expectations differ wildly. Like, especially for these, like, big budget kind of huge Hollywood, CG-heavy films. Like, I'm finding I'm looking for more out of the story and, like, writing than I am. A lot of the kind of scope, because we've kind of seen it all at this point, you know? Like, we've seen giant sharks and shit like that. It just gets more sophisticated

than more you're kind of shown something and you kind of look for more based on your experience and how much you've watched because maybe a little kid watching like the Meg would be like blown away because I've never seen anything like that. The Mig. The Mig.

That's how Jason Statham said it. Courtney Geese, yeah. There was another character in the movie called Mick. And so it was really confusing. Mick, we're going to go get the mig. It's one of the Sardonicah's favorite movies, that one, the Meg, could to say. Yeah. Yeah, depends on the movie.

I just, I don't know. I don't really consider the meaning to be make it or break it in my evaluation of a film. It can make a film stand out if it's saying something really different. It can make it connect with you more. Because there are a lot of movies that just that either have no point. or the point has been done a million times, a coming age movie or whatever, things we've done a million times

that are not that impressive. Yeah. You've got a movie like Climax. I don't know what the meaning of that was, but, you know, definitely unique. Yeah, but that's what separates films, really, is like you can have a coming of age movie done in a really bland presentation,

and then another film having an identity. identical meaning, if that's what you want to call it, like another coming of age movie that's presented in a very unique way. And I would say that the presentation would be what separates the two films in terms of quality for me. Yeah. But then there's a movie like Buffalo 66, where I'm not saying that's not well made. It is well made, but it's very cheap and like indie. And that still has, it has meaning and it stands out because of it. of its meaning that it isn't it isn't saying the same thing that a thousand

other movies have said. Yeah, that's what makes that one stand out. Yeah. A director or writer that clearly has something to say is a positive for sure. Yeah. Regardless of whether or not the message of the film is something that I would, I guess, agree with.

Mm-hmm. All right, do you want to do one more? Okay, let's do this last one then. It's on similar tracks, and I kind of brought it up in the Wizard of Oz discussion, but something I've been pondering lately that I'd like to talk about from ink drop 53 who says when a film attempts to be artsy or ambiguous how much does one's own interpretation of the filmmaker's intentions contribute to their opinion is it a valid view of what they were trying to come across when are we simply projecting ourselves and our beliefs on to films that had no intention of saying anything related to said beliefs doesn't matter so you think it doesn't like it either way It doesn't matter. Is it saying like the director's meaning of the movie or whatever is different from the audience interpretation?

What's the best way to describe it? Obviously, everyone takes and expects different things and analyzes different things based on their experiences, I guess. Like, of course, me, like, Brit in England, like, I'm going to think differently of a movie than someone in, like, what collie would, you know? like your background i think is like essential really to a lot of what you take away from it and also your understanding of you can kind of make assumptions based on how you you feel i guess um a director is like a typically approach of something they do or you know like with david lynch you you kind of have to understand like the person i'm thinking of like a razorhead which is like there's a lot of like it doesn't have a typical kind of standard

narrative type deal. So there's a lot of like theories and trying to picture together what you, what you think it all means. But, and you can kind of find meaning from understanding where the director comes from. David Lynch is like a wacky guy, you know, you listen to him talk and you understand his like art process and whatnot.

And it kind of all stems from there for me. Yeah. Because like it is a lot of guessing games a lot of the time. Like you can never truly know like a direct. director's intent, can you? Because like, a lot of the process, like, um, when we had the director of Shazam on, he does that really good video about how lots of filmmaking is just about problem solving and a lot of the things that people interpret from movies weren't even intended a lot of the time. So, yeah, exactly. Like, the director should hone in on a theme and a story, yeah,

but a lot of it is going to be interpreted just by the person watching it. Like, a film is not, It's not made to be watched and then you read online what the meaning was or read like the director's interview. It's cool to get that perspective. But a film is like you sit there and you just experience it and take your life and what you experience to put that on top of it and get meaning out of it. It's impossible to know exactly what a director's intending. And it's pointless to try to find that out because that's not the point of a movie. The point of the movie is what you got out of it. Well, I do like understanding what the director's intent was also.

Yeah, I do too, of course, especially with some of these movies that are so, like a David Lynch movie, it's like, what the fuck was that? You need some kind of explanation, but not always. Sometimes a movie is more about what it is to you than what the director was necessarily intending. Sometimes art can transform into something that was not initially the goal. That's why they made it in a film and not just the director telling you. his opinion on the subject matter. Yeah. Because that's not interesting.

He makes it a film instead, so you can interpret it in a way. Yeah, a fair few directors decline to explain their movies, don't they? For that exact reasoning. Like, they just want people to take away from it what they do. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Charlie Kaufman explaining his movie would be a disservice to the movie. Yeah, that's why there's no commentary track for Synecdochee, New York.

Yeah. And Lynch, too. He doesn't explain his stuff. Yeah. Because in a way, I feel like, I think that what they're thinking in a way would be that it would almost invalidate someone's interpretation and experience if it didn't line up perfectly with what the director's intent was when that's not necessarily the goal of what they're doing. Yeah, exactly. It makes a movie a lot less interesting. Like when Mother came out and the movie was bombing, so they forced Darren Aronofsky to come out with Jennifer Lawrence and explain the movie, like what it was about. Oh, yeah? And it's, that takes away, I think that takes away something.

It takes away something from like your interpretation of it. Because now it's like, oh, it's just a Bible allegory, because that's what the director said. Yeah. And like, when I watched the first time, I'm not reading the Bible all the time. I'm not like a Catholic. Like, I'm not like a hardcore religious person. So I was just watching it. I was getting more the marriage allegory, like divorce and a couple straining apart.

And like there's this God imagery in there. but there's other things to read into. And to hear, like, a director just boil it down to, oh, it's Bible, she's Mother Nature, he's God. It sucks. It makes a movie worse, I think. I like not hearing the director explain everything. Depending on the movie, depending on the scene. Yeah.

Yeah, I suppose I'm more interested in the person and the way they think more than I am in them trying to, like, explain beat by beat, you know, what a movie means, you know, Like I'm not interested in David Lynch explaining a racehead to me, but I would be willing to listen to him talk about like his creative process and you can kind of figure out their style. All that stuff is super fascinating. Yeah. Are you just really bug some people, I guess? Like not knowing when things are up in the air. So we have to have answers. We need to know.

I think it drives people a bit crazy sometimes. Yeah, sometimes it's not about that. Well, saying like it's whatever you interpret can be a cop-out answer too. Yeah, of course. And there's like bad directors who would do that with their work, Southland Tales. You know, there's some cases where that is perfectly valid. Yeah. So I like it when people on the internet come up with like really weird theories for movies, even if it's not true or what most people would interpret.

I like that. I like hearing a different perspective on a movie with some facts backing it up because it's like when you watch the movie again, it's like watching a movie for the first time. You notice all these new things that someone else. might have pointed out to you someone with a different perspective. Yeah, I agree. I don't like the online mentality where like there's one meaning of a movie and if you don't interpret it that way, you misinterpreted the movie and your interpretation's wrong, which I think a lot of people have.

Yeah, I think it comes from that gray space of not having answers and people like really feeling like they need them to feel satisfied with the experience they got out of it. Because I don't know. Yeah, yeah, of course. I would, you know, we've we've talked about under the Silver Lake and people calling it sexist when I think that that kind of misses the point of what the movie's communicating. Mm-hmm. So. Yeah.

Yeah, it depends on like the complaint. If it is something like that and you're not really given a very strong case, then it's easy to kind of dismiss. Mm-hmm. I think that's what the question is kind of talking about, isn't it? With the, like, projecting your, you know, your own shit onto a movie, like, isn't always necessarily. there. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of things that people sometimes read into more than the directors did also.

And you end up learning a lot about the person analyzing the movie, then you do the movie. Which is why film is so interesting. I think projecting sometimes is a good thing. Because it's like you learn about the person. As long as they're not saying like, well, Birth of a Nation, that was a great movie or whatever. I think it's cool. That aligns with my beliefs. What birth of a nation does?

I haven't seen it still, but I know. I kind of get an idea. Yeah, it's not a good one. Yep. All right, I guess that does it for questions? Yeah, I believe so. Some good ones in there, some silly ones, too. All right, so I guess it's time to recommend a movie.

there's uh i guess it's my turn yeah yeah i don't think either of you've seen this uh correct me if i'm wrong uh Shane Carruth's upstream color no i've really wanted to so that's great yeah i think that's in my watch list okay great have either of you seen primer also by the way yes primer i love no it's another one okay okay catch up on okay interesting my list all right so yeah same director uh very low budget but word of warning, it does not hold your hand. And so if... It's like primer? I mean...

I mean, in ways yes and in ways no. Like different goals. So if you wanted to watch it twice, I wouldn't put it past you. You know, I've seen it a few times. So if you wanted to hear my interpretation in the podcast, I can always do that too. And yeah, we're going to be watching this movie, and next episode will be joined by a guest, Amanda the Jedi, YouTuber, Twitch streamer, cool person. And she'll be joining us and talking about upstream color and maybe some other things. All right.

Well, thank you all for listening or watching or both. If you want to support the show, sardonicast.com, sign up for premium. You'll get these episodes early, $2 a month. Also, patreon.com slash sardonicast. Also, we got merch links in the description. Thank you all so much. Have a wonderful apocalypse. Yeah, don't get sick.

Yep. Good luck. Be careful out there. Drink lots of corona. No place like home. There's no podcast like Sarnonikest, guys. Technically. So, podcast like Sarnonikas.

Anyway, thank you. Bye-bye. See, everybody. Bye.