Sardonicast - Sardonicast #71: Cosmonaut Marcus, 2010: The Year We Make Contact

Episode Date: October 17, 2020

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Buy Sardonicast T-Shirts, and other merchandise at https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast. Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthemoviemaker Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Fanart: https://kxnzo.myteespring.co/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/j5pf0w/in_anticipation_for_next_episode/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/j7h8tw/artists_be_like/ Timecodes: 00:00 - Intro 9:10 - Jaimie Fox back as Electro in Spider-man Sequel 16:58 - Barry Jenkins to Direct Lion King 2 30:09 - 2010: The Year We Make Contact (SPOILERS) 1:12:14 - Q&A 1:12:30 - What movie cliche is your guilty pleasure? 1:14:09 - Which E-Sports Games do you like watching? 1:19:32 - What are some of the best and worst examples of fourth wall breaks? 1:23:40 - Favorite Simpsons moment? 1:27:45 - Do you think discussing these films results in them being put on streaming platforms? 1:28:59 - What film sequels supersede the original? 1:33:40 - Favorite Snyder movie? 1:37:23 - What are your opinions on Copyright and its effect on art?

Two, one. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. You're welcome. Thanks, sir. Hi, everybody. This is Sardana cast. That was my lovely professional rendition of the 2001 theme. And I know it's an original classical song, but I forgot to look up, which it exactly was.

So now I look like an idiot. Anyway, I'm Adam from your movie sucks. This is SardanaCast. Who's here? YouTube.com slash rothelof the movie maker. And I'm Alex Mochi, and we're joined by very special guest Cosminal Variety Hour or Marcus. How you doing? Hi.

Hi. Hi, everybody. Hi. It's great to have you. I'm honored to be the final guest on Sardonicast. It's possible. We don't know. You're not going to top me, that's why.

Who are you and what do you do? I am a YouTuber, the most cursed profession. I talk about a variety of things on YouTube. Sometimes movies. Sometimes, yeah, yeah, so you got it. This guy's smart. But TV shows, movies, games, stuff. What would you say your favorite video of yours is if people wanted to check something out?

I don't watch my own videos. But you've certainly made your own videos. Yeah. I mean, I recently did a like live commentary type thing for the Twilight movies. I think that was pretty cool. Oh, wow. You're allowed to watch those. Oh, no.

Because now I feel kind of bad because I'm doing one too. No, this is good. We need more Twilight commentary, you know. Nobody's ever talked about that movie. Those movies are really funny. As I'm discovering now. Because I had never seen them before. Yeah, I hadn't either.

They're fucking crazy. There's some shit in that movie that's like wacky. The last one's my favorite. Yeah, I avoided them when I grew up. It was difficult. Actually, not really. It was really easy to avoid them. You can just choose not to watch them.

Yeah, exactly. Here's a question. I've noticed that some of your videos have the word quickie in the title. What's that all about? Oh, yeah. So I knew this was going to come up. This is the real YouTube drama. The first argument of the podcast.

Before I actually watched your videos, I was doing like a sex thing with my with my Quicky title. That's what I was thinking too. I was like it's kind of like a pun double entendre sort of thing. Yeah, it was like a sex thing. And then I was like, oh, YMS. Oh, he has a quickie thing. And then it didn't connect in my head for a while until someone on Twitter was like,

you're copying YMS. And I'm like, oh, oh, no. Yeah. I hope not. I would never be that restrictive on art that I would actually give a shit. Yeah. I was just bugging you. I'm glad.

And I'm about to do a Twilight commentary now, so whatever. Yeah. You're going to owe me a lot of money for that, but that's okay. The inventor of the Twilight commentary. Yes. So, Marcus, do you have any favorite picks you could kind of throw out there to kind of give a vague overview of your general taste to, for somebody who wouldn't know you, like on letterbox, like, you know, you choose your top four favorites type thing. Like, what, what would you have on there?

Um, well, I don't know what my favorite movie is anymore. I'm kind of like at like a, like a moral crossroads of like movies that I think would be my favorite. Yeah. Because part of me wants to be like, I really like Kung Pao. And I think that's probably my favorite movie. I know, right? But I don't, but I don't want to be able, I don't want to say that all the time. Because people think I'm joking, but I'm not joking. I think that there's a difference between saying something's your favorite movie and saying like, oh yeah, this is like... The best. Yeah, the best.

I think that those two, the ways you can phrase that are just completely different things. Like, Lion King is like one of my favorite movies of all time. I don't think it's like one of the best movies ever made. Maybe the best, one of the best animated movies ever made. I still think it's great. I would say that about Lion King. Okay, great. But yeah, I like, I think I'm a break up.

is probably one of my favorite movies too. I like that movie a lot. That's like the one M-night piece that I get behind. Well, did you think of Glass then? Oh, no. I did not watch it because I didn't want my perception to be ruined. No, I was like, I'm not watching this shit. If you like Unbreakable, that is the right choice.

Yeah. Yes, I figured. I'm like, from the trailer, I was like, I'm not watching this Avengers shit for like a movie I actually like. I don't want to do that. How did you feel about Split then? I like Split. Yeah.

I thought it was cute in Split. I was like, okay, I'm fine with that. Mm-hmm. That's like a cute little, I thought it was kind of, I thought he was going for like a, I guess I gave him too much credit. I thought he was going for like a, like, kind of like a tongue-in-cheek jab at like the post-credit Marvel type thing. I didn't think he was going to do anything. Oh, actually follow through. Yeah.

Yeah, they actually did it. Yeah. I thought it was just going to be like a cute tease to kind of like, because it's like, you know, it's a superhero thing. I thought he was like adapting, you know. how superheroes have grown in the media or whatever. I don't know, I gave him too much credit. He turned into Avengers thing. I was like, I'm not watching this.

Maybe he wouldn't have if people didn't unanimously love split. Because that really brought his ego back up a bit, you know? Yeah, he started doing weird shit again after that. Yeah. Any Bruce Willis movie nowadays you want to stay away from. Yeah. They're usually not good. They're like a cash grab.

Yeah. He's definitely not trying anymore. No, no. He's given up. He has a new one, hard to kill. that's like really bad. Yeah. Oh, I saw the poster for that.

I think it got a 0% or something. Oh, wow. That's an achievement. I feel like that should be, that's like an earned thing. Because I feel like you could try to make a movie that's so horrendously bad and still not get 0%.

Like, even if you attempt to get that on Rotten Tomatoes, like somebody's bound to be like, oh, this is glorious. Like, I don't even think the room has 0% on Rotten Tomatoes. Yeah, it's quite a statement, isn't it? Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's the best achievement you can.

can get as a filmmaker. Achieve the impossible. Back to Go Zeros. What's like another one that you'd consider a favorite? I think a very underrated movie is Journey to the West by Stephen Chow. Oh, awesome. It's really, really good. And I don't know anybody who's seen that movie.

And I really want to, I'm going to make a video on it one day probably, but I love that movie. I like a Wet Hot American Summer. I think it's like my favorite comedy. Oh, yeah. That's on my watch list. Yeah. I used to really like the original Blade Runner, but then the sequel kind of made me realize that the original could do some work. I really don't like, I don't like that it has Harrison Ford in it. I think he's like the worst thing in that movie. No, no, the, well, both actually. But I don't, I think that he's like the weakest part of the original. And it's like, I don't know. I like, I like the whole movie. But then when he's on screen, like, it doesn't seem like he's trying that hard.

and he isn't really bringing as much emotion to the movie as the other character. So I'm like, is this really my favorite? I think that both of those films have like very different goals. Yeah. Yeah, the surrounding world is very interesting of like Blader. Oh, yeah, big time. I enjoy the goals of the Villeneuve one more. Sure.

I appreciate the first film, but I enjoy the second film a lot more. Yeah, I'd say that's how I feel to actually. That's a good way to put it. Yeah. Yeah. Second film isn't nearly as like influential over history. And, like, defining and pivotal for film history. There's a lot of context.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I wind up appreciating the first one more than I enjoy it. And then the second one, I appreciate and enjoy it. It's just not as much of a gigantic leap forward, I guess. Yeah. But Rucker Howard is really good, too, in that original one. Like, he's one of the best parts.

Yeah. He makes Harrison Ford look worse. Yeah. The world is so interesting around. Blaine Roder and just always like the protagonist is just like a straight arrow kind of yeah yeah it's that romance in that movie isn't it it's it's a bit awkward yeah it is a little that's another part that I don't think they don't like it works so well speaking of movies there's some news about movies that's come out that's pretty interesting there's a couple things we

could talk about one of them being that they're bringing back Jamie Fox's Electro for All in Spider-Man. He lied to me. The actor of our time. Shot at me. Okay, yeah. So Ralph is hyped because he thinks he's going to win the bet. We have a bet going on, which I don't even know if we could properly...

That it's all connected. If we could properly phrase what the bet. Well, I didn't factor electro into this at all. So this is like... Yeah, what is it? I thought it was to do with Venom? Is it even going to be the same electro? Or is it going to be the same actor?

It's just a different... I'm pretty sure the bet was that Venom would be in the MCU. non-sony film in that universe, right? But if they're bringing Electro into Spider-Man 3, I don't think that that necessarily means that the Andrew Garfield's films is the same timeline. And even that is not Marvel universe. That's still Sony. So Sony is bringing a character into another Sony film, basically.

Yeah, but the Tom Holland one is like a Sony Marvel. Co-op sort of thing. So if Venom shows up in the Tom Holland films does that count is the question? Yeah? Is that what we're saying? I think that's what the bet was I thought the bet was as long as they're connected It's really confusing bet or as long as they're in the same movie like that's all I wanted I mean everything's technically connected if you really think of and and every time we just like ask ask the fans to like double check and they put it on red and we just and then I look at it and then I forget immediately because it just but I don't even think I join the bet it's between you two I think I maybe bet five bucks and Alex bet 50 or something. I don't remember. I find it fascinating that they would decide to reincorporate elements of the film that is the entire reason why it got rebooted again. I mean, there's a lot of things to think about.

Like, either someone at Sony was like, hey, he did a really good job, let's bring him back, which can't be true. or I think we need to give him another chance. Maybe. But why? They seem to like, you know, like a lot of movies studios, like, you know, given, like, different actors a chance to do stuff. I don't know why they'd pick Jamie Fox to come back, unless they have a reason. I could get behind that if it was like, okay, we're going to see what he's like under a director that works better with actors.

But John Watts isn't going to be any better than Mark Webb in terms of, like, like directing actors. Nobody's watching the far-from-home movies for like amazing performances or anything. Exactly. I mean, like, they brought back like J.K. Simmons because, you know, like, oh, it's a beloved character from the originals. Yeah, you can't replace that. It's already perfect. Yeah, you can't recast it.

Yes, exactly. And that was fan service, too. Like, it was so brief in the movie. I don't even know if he's going to be in it for that long. You know, he could be like the rhino and Amazing Spider-Man, too, where he's in it for like five seconds. Or is he going to be a main villain? J.K. Simmons was perfect casting and a great performance. Yeah, that too.

Electro, I mean, like, it didn't seem like he tried in Amazing Spider-Man, too. It really, like, Jamie Fox was not like a standout part of that film. There's a lot wrong with that film, too. He's definitely not the worst part of that film. I think he was trying. I think he just wasn't trying very well. Yeah, that film was like a failure in many ways. He was trying, I think he was trying too hard.

He was like, he was, I don't know, he was trying, he was trying, wrong. The character was very silly, like, with the gap tooth and like. Oh, that was hilarious. It was just, yeah, it was just too over the top. He was all weird. Yeah, the tone was all over the place. Even for Spider-Man, right. I mean, if, if the third Tom Holland's Spider-Man movie is as bad as Amazing Spider-Man 2,

then maybe I'll watch it more times. Because so far, I've seen Amazing Spider-Man 2 more times than either of the new Tom Holland movie. I hate to say it, but I think. I think I have too. He needs a new costume also. Like, the costume they had for him is, you know, pretty silly looking. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird how it doesn't look as good.

You know, the guy in the green suit with the lightning bolts? Yeah, they should make him white. That's great. That's much better. Just turn him into a white guy. That'll really. That might be why they're bringing him back. They might just not want to, like, whitewash him or something.

We don't know. Although there's plenty of other black actors that they could cast. That's a possibility. Maybe they just don't have that much creativity when it comes to it. They can't name a single other black actor in Hollywood that people would like watching in a superhero film. Is there like any enthusiasm for this Sony Spider-Man spin-off universe, really? It seems like they're just riding the cocktails completely. Yeah.

Ralph is very enthusiastic about it. Well, yeah, Morbiose looks cool and stuff. Tom Hardy. Yeah, they're all going to be together. Tom Hardy, Tom Holland. It just sounds like a joke. Tom Hardy, Tom Holland, Jamie Fox. shitty Sony Spider-Man universe where they just bring back or they bring in Venom and Electro and

nobody else. Yeah. I mean, they've royally fucked up every other attempt at Spider-Man somewhere down the line. So it would only make sense if they did the same here. Eventually, they just get too cocky. They're like, people are going to watch this no matter what. And they don't learn from their mistakes. Yeah. What if they're like experimenting? They're like, all right, let's try to make this one really bad. We're going to bring back Jamie Fox. No one's going to watch it. And they're like, They have bets. Oh, yeah.

Just like you guys too. What can we get away with? Yeah. This is what we get for. We're going to see Venom, though. We've created this problem. Yeah, that's true. Venom should never have been popular,

and now that they're going to start losing it. Yeah, I guess so. I'm so hyped to see how Morbius does, because that doesn't have the... Venom at least has that hook of the weird, like, CG monster stuff that any audience can enjoy. I don't know about the Morbius. thing. And the thing is Venom's on like t-shirts and stuff. Like, like, regular people, they know him, but like, I don't...

Yeah, I forgot about Morbius. I could say, Dad, they have a Venom movie. He's like, okay, cool, that's pretty, I'll go see that. But I say, Dad, it's a Morbius movie. He's like, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we'll see with that one. Venom two, though. That'll be good. Oh, yeah. Let there be cardage, right? I know. Oh, my God. That title's so good. I wonder if they'll change that. Yeah. Woody Harrelson. Isn't Golem directing? Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.

Ronald McDonald's wig. Yeah, weird afro. But I think these movies are great. Like, I can't wait to see where this goes. And we still have those, the Spider-Verse movie, and they could still make more of those. They could put Tom Hardy in those. Yeah, that's what they need. Yeah.

Tom Holland and Tom Hardy and those. Yeah, they'll do a live-action version. They'll cross them over. I was thinking it would be, like, super cool because, like, Spider-Man has this history of there being, like, comic books where, you know there's alternate universes and like different spider-mans just like interacting with each other I always thought it would be fucking hilarious is if they did a live-action version of this and they had Toby McGuire Andrew Garfield and Tom Holland in the same film that would be fucking awesome don't tell me that people wouldn't see that that would be so cool people would actually really

yeah yeah people would like that give me give me power in Hollywood I will make hilarious things happen they should just have one scene together people would see it People would see it. They genuinely would. Yeah. Don't tell me that that wouldn't sell like hot cakes. These movies are like, they're very tongue and cheek and very silly, which is why I still enjoy them, despite like Woody Harrelson and all this nonsense that's happened. I mean, it's called Spider-Man.

It's goofy as hell. Mm-hmm. What's the other big news story? The other bit of movie news that we have going on here is Moonlight director, Barry Jenkins is now signed on to direct the quote-unquote, live action sequel to the quote unquote live action 2019 piece of garbage that they call the Lion King. Yeah, what? It's the animation's so realistic, it's not animation anymore, basically.

Yeah, it's just like real life. It's just like I'm there. Yeah. And there are sources, so like MTV, this article here is saying that it's a prequel. That's what I read. Yeah. Wait, what? I didn't hear that.

They're going to focus on younger Mufasa, and one of the quotes in this article is so funny saying, there's no word yet on whether the actors will reprise their roles or if they're looking at a whole new cast for the prequel. And all I'm thinking is like, oh my God, like 90-year-old James Earl Jones playing a younger version of Mufasa? That would be...

Come on, they have to replace it. They have to replace it. Dad! I want to go play! I guess it has to be a prequel so they can rely on the... You remember this from the Lion King's? stuff a bit more.

Yeah. If they go into the future, they've got to be more like original with it, you know, maybe, come up with their own stuff. But I mean,

like they could always just remake the shitty Lion King 2 that already exists that only furries like, I guess, really bad. Fries love that movie.

Yeah, I remember that movie. It's not good. Barry Jenkins. I know, right? That's the weird part of it. Imagine, imagine the paycheck he must get.

Oh, that's awesome. I mean, yeah. Zero, zero, zero, zero. That's why he was. Wait, yeah. Yeah, that's why.

I have a question. Who directed the first, the remake? John Favreau. John Favreau, Chef. Okay. Because when I heard the news, I was like, didn't they already get like a Barry Jenkins or something to do the first one. Like, at this point, I can't keep track of which directors they're attaching to these things. No, the first one was John Favreau.

And if it had been somebody different, it might not be as bad. But he had this weird philosophy with how it should be. And now I guess they have to commit to it. because A, it's already done in the first one, and B, it's the most successful animated film of all time now, which is the saddest thing on the planet. I hate that. Can it be as bad as that 2019 movie, though?

I can't even envision a movie being as bad as that one. If they do their own fucking thing, and they don't even, like, attempt to pretend it's, like, shot-for-shot remake and, you know, just completely destroying everything that was all, already handed to them on a fucking platter. If they do their own thing, then I can't imagine it being as offensive as the 2019 one. Yeah.

Because the 2019 one is like, okay, this is just a very clear, complete misunderstanding of, like, anything that was in the original. Like, you don't understand why any of it was written this way or presented this way. And you think you do and you don't. That's what's offensive about it. But if they're doing their own thing and it's just like, oh, wow, just some dumb lion movie, then okay. I'm probably not going to be as upset about it.

The question is, will people see it? Yeah, they will. I think people will see it. Yeah, people see the hell out of it. People just like, they like Lion King. I remember when the first trailer for the remake came out, people like, I'm crying. This is my childhood. If you just, they'll just, they'll watch it. It's nostalgia bait, though.

They don't care if it's good or not. Yeah, it's what they've been relying on. If they're doing their own thing, though, they're going to have to get creative with how they inject the nostalgia into the film, they're going to have to use the score from the original in the trailer for the new one, even if the score from the original doesn't show up in the new film. That's basically what they're going to do. Similar imagery, yeah.

That's all ticks, though, sometimes. It really is, yeah. I'm working on my review for the Lion King right now, and there's literally John Favreau saying in interviews like, man, you really don't have to do all that much. All you need is just like the score, and people like it, no matter what you do. That's basically what he said. It's just so funny.

To be this man who's just like, oh yeah, making movies isn't hard. I make a lot of money off of it. Like, come on, man. You have to try sometimes. Yeah. Are we going to get a prequel to Milan?

I hope so. Are they just going to forget about that one? That wasn't nearly as successful, though. They tried different stuff. That's dangerous waters for them. I mean, there's a few reasons why. Yeah.

Aladdin, too, or Aladdin prequel about Will Smith's genie. I think Aladdin could probably get a sequel. That was pretty successful. Yeah, that's a billion dollars. But with Mulan, though, um, the Disney Plus, they tried the 30 bucks early model thing.

Like, no one bought it. Did that work out? No, I don't think it was worked out because the new Pixar movies coming straight to Disney Plus without any extra money. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. And that'll be much more popular, I'm sure. Yeah.

If it's more lucrative to think about how many people are going to sign up for the platform to watch the movie, rather than how many people who already own the movie. platform or going to purchase the movie, then, you know, that makes sense. Streaming is very lucrative, which is why everybody has a streaming platform now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

People forget about their subscription, don't know? We're going to get, like, New Line Cinema streaming classics or some shit. That might already be happening. I don't know. Yeah, that sounds like a real thing. Yeah. It's like everybody has a streaming service. They just need, like, you need, like, five studios to just, like, team up and split the

revenue or something. Yeah. Make it more convenient for everybody. It's getting ridiculous now. The amount of streaming services you have to keep track of and the price of it all if you want to like get all of them is ridiculous. Peacock, I think, is the newest one. What is that?

There might be five more. Peacock, I think, is like NBC. Oh, yeah. They call it peacock? Because, you know, the NBC logo is like a peacock. I get it. That's just an awful name. Yeah.

Peacock. Oh, dear. Piss penis. I'd prefer that. I'd pay for that. Oh, I know you would. Apparently, that's successful. Yeah, piss her dick.

There you go. Holy fuck. I mean, people probably wouldn't ask you for your login for that one. Then I'm going to say, can I get your piss penis account? Yeah. Yeah, Lion King too, everybody. It's happening. It's going to the YMS review.

It'll be even more. realistic than the first one. What if, see, the issue that I have when it comes to attaching director's names onto any Disney project, whether it be Disney Marvel or, you know, any one of those things, is that the director doesn't really have that much of a voice when they do it. It's like they're not even there. You know, even the ones that kind of do, it's so limited.

Like, you get a bit of, uh, what's his face, Guardians, what's his name? James Gunn? James Gunn. Or like Tycho Atiti with Thor 3. Like that one. You get a bit of their personality when it comes to like James Gunn and Tyco Waititi, like a bit. But they don't really have all that much creative control when it comes to how they want to present their films. And we've seen this evidence by the amount of directors who have previously been signed up like Edgar Wright, who was just like, no, fuck this, sorry.

Not doing Ant Man. You're not letting me tell the story I want. It's because their films are like purely animated at this point. So it's just like artists and the animators and storyboarders. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I don't believe we're going. going to get a Barry Jenkins film out of this.

No. Featuring Barry Jenkins more than anything. The directors don't even really shoot the action scenes anymore for the Marvel movies. They have like second units do whatever. The VFX crew does it. Exactly. Because like that's why they're able to get directors that don't have a huge background in these special effects to direct these movies.

It's because they have a whole bunch of other people helping them out. They're not going to leave all that responsible to people unfamiliar with that part of the process. Yeah, but directors like James Cameron, they really understand that stuff. Exactly. Or Ridley Scott or, you know, directors like that. I feel like they would make a good superhero movie, you know. I would like them to direct something like that. But I don't think they want to do things like that.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I don't know, James Cameron is basically doing that. It's just his own property. His own, yeah. Made his own superhero, yeah. Which is, I guess that's cool. Same genre, kind of. Yeah.

Could have done that with Terminator. Yeah. Everything's just one big extended universe cluster fuck. Everything gets a sequel. Everything gets connected. Yeah. We're just at the beginning too. Yeah.

What if they start, like, connecting all of these, like, Disney properties? What if, like, the Lion King and Aladdin are in the same world? There was, like, a show for that. There's, like, House of Mouse. Oh, yeah, that. Or, like, Kingdom Hearts, I guess. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

When there's a House of Mouse movie, then maybe I'll go watch it. Oh, and in Rocket Ralph 2. Do you guys see that? There's like the princesses bit. There's all the princesses. I could see them doing a princess movie or something at some point, a crossover. Yeah. How much can they get away with is the question?

Whoa, we just talked about Lion King. If everything's on Disney Plus anyway, it's like, I don't know. You can just dump things. Yeah, true. Maybe they'll just make worse content and not give a shit. It's Disney. Well, the track record ain't great so far. We've got Artemis Fowl.

We've got Moulan. they just announced that they're they're dumping a soul onto Disney Plus without any theatrical release that's wild yeah uh soul's getting some good reviews though so I'm I'm hopeful for that that's actually Pixar I mean most Pixar movies get good reviews though yeah yeah that's true also so I'll take it with a grain of salt but it'll probably be a bit more creative than Milan or Artemis Fowl it's like an original idea Artemis Fowse Fowse seemed like it was in a pipe line for like, you know, five years. Like, you know, they've been working on that movie forever.

I'd be shocked if it were less creative than Artemis Fell. Really? I would be shocked. In terms of the cinematography of the action scenes, when it was like going with the white angle. Yeah, I would be, I would be shocked if it was worse than Artemis Fell. I'm not expecting that. I don't know.

I have more faith at Pixar than I do the people that made Mulan or Artemis Fell. Mm-hmm. You don't like Kenneth Brunig? no not reason he's a good actor he's a good actor like like intended he's awesome and in dunkirk he's awesome what what's that movie where the guys are on the train uh ray is on the train express yeah oh god it's funny that that didn't even click in my mind i saw that it's so it's the most boring it's the same movie as the one from like the 60s i think which i had seen i'm like okay it's the same movie why is why are we making this yeah and now they're making another one

where they're on a boat and it's the same poster. What? Oh, my God. I forgot what that was called. So if they're going to do Lion King too and try to do their own new thing, they're going to have to make some new music. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

They'll probably get Hans Zimmer and Farrell Williams to do the score. That'd be great. What about Beyonce? I don't think Beyonce is going to be a part of it. I really doubt it. She didn't seem like too hyped to be a part of the original. She was just kind of there.

She didn't really put her best efforts into it. I think she wanted to get a best original song Oscar nomination, and that's why she did it, and then she didn't. But that song is so, so bad. Yeah. It's like the most lovable part. Yeah, I watched the Black is King thing, and I enjoyed every song but that one, and that was the one they closed on.

I was like, holy shit. It was like, everything sounds inspired on this album except that one song. I wonder why. Which is like the polar opposite with Eminem and Venom. Yeah. It's like, that's the one song that fucking is. rocks. That's the song. Is Eminem gonna do a new song for Venom 2? He better. I fucking hope so. Carnage!

Called Carnage. Yeah, Carnage song. Oh, come on. I will start a change petition if he does not. Do it. Please, Eminem, come back. I want like the worst song. I want him to, like, collab with, like, Limp Biscuit or something. Yeah. That would be pretty epic. All right. More to add about Lion King Too realistic movie

Just that we're all hype for it Yeah Yeah Lion King subtitle. It'll have like an under thing Lion King The Beginning Rise of the Lion

Yeah I'm happy he's getting tons of money To direct a movie That'll be the subtitle I'm happy Barry Jenkins Is getting tons of money To direct it

Just a bunch of dollar signs Yeah I think he can make Whatever project he wants It's like a hip hop album It's just lying King with just a bunch of dollar signs like gold-plated.

Oh, yeah. Okay, so I chose this movie for the four of us, that being, the 1984 movie 2010, the year we made contact directed by Peter Himes, of course, direct sequel. Ham's. Is it Hams? I'm fucking with you. I'm sorry. Keep going.

My enunciation is so bad, and I'm willing just to take the other one anything, but. trust a word I say. But yeah, 2001 of Space Odyssey might be, I don't know, I rewatched it before watching this movie and I'm trying to decide whether that was a huge mistake or not. Yeah, I think it was a mistake.

I think it is maybe the best film ever made, 2001. It might just be recency bias from watching it again just right now, but it's impeccable, it's immaculate. So following it up is just a gargantuan uphill battle, but I don't even know why anyone on a conceptual level would even attempt to, you know, even begin. So with that in mind, the story is actually fairly simple.

It picks up straight after 2001 with Roy Scheider recast as the character from 2001, the kind of research guy from the middle section of the movie. This really confused me at first. I didn't know that that was a character. Yeah, no. I only found out because I was looking at IMDB and saw that their names were the same. Okay. Like the character names were the same.

So I was like, oh, I guess it's supposed to be the same character because you wouldn't know really otherwise. Yeah. From the actor's performance and the mannerisms and everything. He was kind of doing his own thing entirely. Everybody else they recast. Yeah. Like Hal and fucking Dave, they recast the same people for those. Did they recast, Howell?

I thought it was the same. I thought it was the same and same with Dave Sorry that's what I meant Recast as in Oh my God I don't know why I said it that way As in reprised

Oh I see what you mean They cast the same person again Is what I meant Technically You wouldn't be right Yeah so that adds to the confusion Yeah I just made it more confusing I'm sorry

No but in the movie Yeah those two characters are the same But that character's different actor That was confusing Yeah just to As if it isn't complicated enough Just as a baseline This is my understanding

of this kind of property, right? So there's the original film, which was produced at the same time as the book 2001, kind of worked together. Oh, really? Yeah. For the release of that, yeah.

Wow. Then the writer of the book wrote 2010 and two other books, and the only other one, well, Kubrick wasn't interested in directing any other, you know, 2000-plus movie. So I guess Peter Himes

took, control and made the antithesis of 2001 to me. It's much more Hollywood. It's much more, I don't know, it kind of takes away a lot of the mystery aspect and the interpretation side. It's a lot more. Yeah. It's a lot more exposition heavy. It's, it's basically, yeah, it's directed in a completely opposite approach. And I don't know about you guys, but I found it to be pretty bad at times yeah the visual effects

were definitely pretty bad like especially compared to the original the fact that it came out like 20 years later floating in space parts yeah

and it looks worse yeah yeah that's the most shocking thing like it on a technical level it is so much worse in every way

than the original and you can't help but compare props to Kubrick well yeah because I was reading about this movie with people saying

yeah it's It's kind of more like the book. You've got to forget about the Kubrick movie and everything. But this is weirdly reminding me of, what's that horror movie that was also based off a Kubrick of the Shining? Oh, Dr. Sleep? Yeah, Dr. Sleep. Oh, okay. Remember what we were saying with Dr. Sleep how it's really hard to tell when people are saying, yeah, it's more close to like the book adaptation, but they're also relying on visuals and remember that moments from the movie adaptation.

Exactly. It's like pick one. identity. Yeah. That's a good comparison. It relies on the music and the visuals. Yeah, it really reminded me of that and how it, I just couldn't connect with it in that way because as you say, we'll get into the visuals in a bit more detail in a moment.

But it seemed kind of shoddy to me and very dated, especially. It felt older. Exactly. Exactly. It's an incredible testament when you realize that 2001 of Space Odyssey is a timeless film and does not really feel dating. Absolutely. You know when it was made, but like even watching it, it's like,

it feels like it's newer than it is, even though you know it's an older movie. You don't expect that it's a film. What was it, like, 60 something? 69 or 60 or something. Yeah, it was like the literally the 60s, which is just absolutely insane. There's like the Pan Am parts that kind of remind you it's the 60s. Yeah. That's it.

Like the visual effects are incredible, really, for the time. And the atmosphere is really what makes that movie. This movie doesn't have that same. It doesn't have that same tone. Yeah. That, you know, the 60s one. It feels like any other random movie that you could pluck from the 80s and just be like, well, this is another 80s movie that people forgot. And it's just so dated and it's stuck in its time period.

It's not timeless in the slightest. It's like, this is exactly what was happening with every other movie at the time that got forgotten. Yeah, 2001 is a lot more ambiguous with the plot, too. And this movie kind of, a lot of exposition. A lot of over explaining. Yeah. And then there's a lot of elements that make it feel dated, like the music and like certain sound design choices.

The big difference for me, like there's sound in space in this one. Yeah, I hated that. So like the jet engine like blows and then you hear like an explosion. It's very corny compared to the other one. Mm-hmm. Very, very corny. And what's really funny is like I looked up on IMDB

about the actors and realized that they were the same people. people with Hal and Dave. And it was pretty obvious with Dave when he actually physically came back in the film. But at the beginning, when they had that line where they keep repeating it throughout the entire movie, my God, it's full of stars. I'm like, did they recast? Did they replace that actor? It didn't even sound like him.

It was so weird. And like the delivery of it was just so cheesy. It was like, I don't even think he said that in the original film. Did he? He didn't. No, I think that's a line from the original book or something. I don't think he says it in the book and it's like a reference to that. I can't even recall.

Yeah, he doesn't say anything. Yeah, like the last like 20, 30 minutes of the original are like completely like no dialogue for the most part. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Which is incredibly striking when you watch this movie because there's just non-stop dialogue and bad dialogue too. Just keep talking. What did you guys think of the easiest cake banter?

Oh, what was that? It was awkward, like, do you know, there was loads of weird times where they were trying to show like, you know, buddy-buddy, team work type character building. And it's just so flat every time there's the one with John Lithgow saying about how,

oh, you've never done this before. It was like a really weird joke that just didn't land. Uh-huh. They're trying to make them more relatable, right? There was like a scene later on

where it's like John Lithgow and Roy Scheider and they're talking about hot dogs. Oh, yeah. He's like, I put mustard on mine. Oh, yeah. That was so quick too. I think the point of the original

was like the humans aren't very acting very human-like they're all very cold and I think that works for that film much better because in this movie it's not funny really it's not I don't know the first film has a better understanding of tone like everything you see every choice that has made

compliments the tone in that film whereas this one it's like kind of just all over the place the exposition is super fucking clunky and boring and it's like you're watching like several movies at once where it's like okay get back to the fucking space shit right like I don't care about these characters I don't care.

And it's, what's funny is, like, yes, you described the plot as being relatively simple, Alex, and that's true. But they took so long to explain the most basic things. It was so repetitive. And all I was thinking when watching, like, the exposition, the first 13 minutes of the film that felt like 25 minutes, all I was thinking is just like, I could think of so many better ways to communicate this exact same information. Some of it's not even necessary.

Some of it doesn't even need to be there. Even the way that information was delivered already, it's just like, Like, they did not do it in any kind of efficient or entertaining way whatsoever. It was just such a fucking slog in those scenes. They had a lot of scenes of just, like, re-explaining how, like, the suspended animation works when they go into space. And, like, they obviously expect you to have seen the original. And, like, this is a major thing that we already know, yet there's, like, three scenes

explaining, like, oh, I'm going to go to sleep, and then I'm going to wake up later. That's like, you know, I know that. I got it. I understand. It's like, they know. They explain stuff that they don't need to explain, and like, especially with the original, doesn't really tell you anything, and that, like, works to its benefit. And especially with the ending, like, the ending of the original, you don't know what the fuck's going on, and it's up to your interpretation, whereas on this, they just tell you, like, oh, here's what happened. They made another son.

Yeah. There's voiceover narration quite often. Oh, yeah. It was reminding me of the shitty Blade Runner cut. Yes, that's... Uh-huh. That's exactly what I thought. We were talking about Blade Runner earlier,

but it's not even like explaining anything most of the time. I know. The answers are bigger than the questions. Like, just a bunch of nonsense. I think it was probably just in the book and they just wanted to, you know, they're like, why not? We'll just include it here. And what's funny is like some of them were in scenes where,

okay, so he's walking along that like space bridge from one, you know, that portable bridge from one ship to the other. That scene would have been so much more effective just without that voiceover. Yeah. Because like you'd be able to absorb what's happening. the visuals are good enough in that scene too. The visuals weren't bad in that scene.

You could have something really atmospheric, but they just butchered it. They took it away. They completely just fucked up any opportunity at having something that was as much of an atmospheric experience as the first one or just even atmospheric in general. They didn't understand tone. Yeah, that really hurt it.

They didn't really know what they were going for. Yeah. There's no mood to it. There's nothing to get you intrigued into it. Like that original movie, like you can't keep your eyes off it. It's so original. And this is just so derivative of just an 80s blockbuster, as you say.

The first film is also like really symphonic, especially in the way that the music was used. And what's so embarrassing about these callbacks and sequels, and it's so funny because we see so many of them today, but it was just as much of a thing in the 80s, even if there weren't as many of them. Yeah. You have like the opening credits and even the closing of this newest,

of the 2010 film. And they're using that song I was playing on the recorder as just kind of like a, ooh, everybody knows that this song is from 2001 of Space Odyssey, but it's like, yeah, you're ignoring how it was used, though. You're ignoring how the song

was, it's not a credits song just to remind you that the song exists. It has to be used in a better, more purposeful way, right? In the original, it was... I was just really annoying. It was like, you have this, like, beautiful, like, visual of just like the planets like the sun barely coming over them but in this one it's the same

song but it's just a field with like satellite dishes yeah yeah it's like immediately from that point I was like okay I see what we're doing here we're just gonna and it's the introduction yeah it's the first thing the start of the film and think about being in a theater in the 60s with the loud like speakers and the huge screen it's like epic and in this one they just yeah it's like they plopped in halfway through the credits uh do you remember this scene we're Dave Bowman comes back and visits his wife on the TV. Oh, God. Yes.

Can we talk about that? Sure. I was losing it at that scene. Very corny. It's funny. It demystifies the original a lot. Mm-hmm. He's just walking around.

What's going to happen? Something extraordinary or whatever he said. Something wonderful. I don't remember the line. It's just really funny. On that demystifying line, though, how did you guys feel about the way they kind of explain Howell's motivation from the first movie? It's like a...

Oh, the point of... programming? Yeah, they go out of their way to explain why the first movie happens in the way that it does. That's really lame. Just leaving all of that subtlety and nuance from it. Yeah. I guess on a technical level, like the answer is okay. It's satisfying.

I could imagine it being kind of satisfying in a novel form. Yeah. Like if this was the answer in a novel and I'm reading it, I think I'd be satisfied by that. But I think because of the way Kubrick interpreted it compared to the way this director did, it is just, it felt like a B. movie to me, whereas 2001, it's like high art, like, in comparison, at least. Yeah. So go, like, to the, to the Blade Runner comparison again. Like, in, in the sequel, they don't, like, go through, like, oh, was Harrison Ford a

replican or not? Like, they don't try to over-explain stuff that happened already and, like, ruin the original by, like, just at, simultaneously, like, not stop talking about, but also trying to do, like, different stuff from the original. Yeah. And this one felt like, like, it's not the same movie. Like it's a lot about like just people hanging out talking to each other in space Whereas the original is not like that

It doesn't have like the cool visual effects like it does not just like a bunch of scenes of you staring looking at stuff like they're two different movies And yet they want you to still kind of think about the other one in the back of your head Yeah, it's a direct sequel. There's no way you can't Yeah, there's too many wink wink nudge-nudge moments Yeah, that too. It's relying too much on that original. It's so funny because like even just like visual moments from the original they try to replicate and it's just so embarrassing like the person walking down in the the wall who's like just clearly being held by by a rope where it's just like okay this was done in the 60s and sure you can figure out how it was done but it's so much more

convincing like the first time you watch it you're like holy shit it's really cool holy shit how did they do it's the pen the pen yeah I was about to mention that too yeah oh oh yeah I forgot about that it was awful yeah Because and like it's so weird because there's clearly gravity there But they just have this like center part It's just like I'm gonna put the pen here Yeah remember that original it is so seamless It's such a flex shot it's like really showing look at this

You're like try and figure out how this was done And then and then contrasting it with this one I thought this movie would actually probably make for quite a funny Comparison video where if you were comparing it directly to 2001 Yeah It is just so humorous when you contrast them, because it is just so... It just doesn't work. It's so dated and aged.

Yeah. In the original, there's a scene, like, it's really brief. It's like a really brief shot of when they're like, they're on the ship, the guy who's played by like the Jaws guy now in this one. He's on the ship and his like food tray like lifts off for like a second. And that looks better than the fucking pen thing in this movie. Because it's just, it's brief. They're not like, they're not like trying to show off like.

oh look we can make it float like it's it's just fits that one brief moment and then they try to like bring your attention to he'll he's making the pens float and it looks really bad it doesn't look like he's holding it at all well apparently they they tried to do it the same way kubrick did in the original but they couldn't so they just tried to use the contemporary effects and look the way it did well because kubrick actually went to space yeah to do it in a way this movie is an awful But I don't think it ruins the original. I think it just gives me more appreciation for the original. Because I think it's particularly fascinating just how much I cared about the characters in the original when I knew, I guess, less about them.

But they were just more consistent and more defined and more relatable and had more character to them. Whereas in this film, they spend a lot of time on these characters, but things are just so fucking all over the place. You got that moment where they're doing the almost crash landing sort of thing. And then this random female character comes and they cuddle while they're falling. And that never gets brought up again. It's like, wait, is this supposed to be like a relationship thing that's getting developed here? And then they just completely forget about that. You know, I don't give a shit about any of the characters in this movie.

And they try so hard to give them like quirks to their personality. You got like John Lithgow's hyperventilating and like, oh, I'm so scared. Like, just like ruining the tone of that scene. Try to give him more personality. And they only figure out he's hyperventilating, like, after 10 minutes of him going, like, oh my God. They try. And it's just, it's such a miserable failure.

And I also like, I don't know, the first thing we learn about the main character is like, oh, he's abusing dolphins basically. This tiny ass pool at his house. Yes. What was that about? Yeah. Not really relatable. like future, the future imagery

in the original was, there's like one gag with the toilet and stuff which is like cute and cool, but... Oh, what was that? You'll have to remind me. The toilet joke. In the first movie, yeah, the same character who's recast in this one when he first goes into space, he's like reading the instructions

on how to use a space toilet type thing. That was like a quick... Or he's like on the Skype with his daughter. It's not even a gag though, that actually happened. I guess how it was presented was a bit corny. Yeah. Yeah, no, I was just reading that it's that Kubrick said it's the one intentional joke in that whole movie. Yeah, it looks like a joke. It is cute, it's cool.

It's an effective joke, though. Yeah. As the one joke in the movie, it's like, oh, that's kind of cute. Yeah. I agree, yeah. The only parts of 2001 that Phil dated are like that, the Pan Am reference, like when he's going through the, like, the terminal at like the airport, the space airport. Right, yeah. But that's it.

Like, there's some parts in this movie that look good, like some sets that were. well made, even though they're just kind of reminiscent of 2001 already. There was just nothing that this film did that made it unique or stand out, like that original one. I mean, the dolphins in a tiny pool was certainly unique. Yeah, I do remember. That was really stupid. They were one original idea.

It was definitely more character focused and like plot driven. Like, I appreciate that it was trying to be different and less vague. But it just, I don't know. Just the way Kubrick told that story was much more effective. Yeah. than how this director told this story. There was an atmosphere. There was like an intent.

There was a tone. Things were clear in terms of like, oh, this is the type of film you're making. Yeah. And like you said, you do, you feel more for the characters in the original without them saying like anything. Like that scene of a, the scene of Hal being unplugged, he's like begging for his life. Like that's emotional. Yeah.

Whereas in this. It's insane. Undisturbing. You don't feel anything for characters that are just like actually talking the whole movie and you don't feel anything for them. Yeah. And it's also like partially the performances too because like what I'm thinking of like Dave as a character, like he only gets so much in the first movie to be explored as a character,

but his interactions with Hal and like when he starts understanding this idea that's kind of unraveling that he shouldn't be trusting Hal and the conversations he's having with Hal, you can see subtleties in his performance. Like you can see the stress in his face even if he's not outwardly communicating that because he is trying to hide that from Hal. And then you have kind of mirrored scenes in this film where you have the guy who's like lying to Hal but it's so fucking obvious.

Like there's no subtlety in the performance. He's like he had this plan. Like he's already established this plan of like, I'm going to lie to Hal right now and we're going to try and get him to warp speed out of here or whatever. He's already had this plan. And then as soon as Hal asks him the most basic question, like why are we doing that?

He's like, uh, do, I don't know. He's like, what? You didn't have any kind of, like, you said you had a plan. What is this? It was just so weird and goofy. Howell in the original movie was like, to the point where he could notice like the slightest imperceptibility of like your, your manner is like he could read lips and stuff. And you can see that when he's like, oh, I'm not going to let you back in because I know

you're going to unplug me. And Dave's like trying not to like waver, but his like lip is quivering. Like, that's beautiful. And then you've got this guy who designed Hal, I guess. And they say like, oh, he's, he's just like. because he designed him and he like they try to make you think that he like cares about him because he made him but then he doesn't really have any of that subtlety when he's interacting with them like you said he just tells him what's going to happen yeah it makes for a much more interesting

kind of like cat and mouse game in the original where it's like both of these characters are trying their hardest to like manipulate the other and you don't really know what's going to happen you don't really know how it's going to play out tension horror yeah whereas in this one it's just like there's nothing no subtlety yeah yeah yeah Yeah. They're trying a bit too hard to make Hal sympathetic also. Yeah. Like, especially at the end with his sacrifice, I guess. Will I dream? Yeah, it's like, that doesn't...

Yeah, that's too, it's too much. It's too much. Yeah, it's very much. Oh, Hal was just doing his best. Yeah. He was programmed to life. He was just a person too. Yeah. Did you like a Sal 9,000? That was weird. That was corny. I forgot about that.

Sal. Sal. But no, for me, going back to the special effects, that was really what was stopping me from getting engaged with the movie, because the combination of the live action scenes and the special effects, there was this weird, like, cropping thing going on where, I mean, I can just read you. I saw that too. Yeah. And I was like, is this my TV? Have I just got a bad copy or something? But apparently, the special effects for 2010 were filmed on 65mm film, and the live.

action scenes were filmed at 35 millimeter. And due to the differences in the size and ratio, there's a notable cutoff area at the side of the picture during the space scenes. And you can really see it. It's like in Photoshop when you're doing a crude cutout. I noticed it and I was like, oh, that's embarrassing. Yeah, and you see like the green lighting, the green glow around people where the, you know, has been painted out.

Yeah, the lighting is different. Exactly. When there's like way too much noise. And the visuals just for like the characters like they're popping out of the background environment in a way where it's like, okay, this is the most fucking obvious green or blue screen in the world. Then the original, it's just like, okay, it's seamless. None of that. Yeah. It looks great.

It holds up. The backgrounds of the original when they were in outer space, which is black. And in this, they're a little too overdone. There's like a ton of stars. Oh, yeah. There's a ton of planets and glow. Yeah. And it makes it feel more fake and more like an 80s, cheesy.

sci-fi movie. It looks more like space in the original whereas in this one it looks like computer-generated space more or less. What's funny is like

you can try to make that comparison to things today where you think of what current special effects do people accept right now that for the time being look impressive

but will age terribly because I'm sure in the 80s this film looked pretty fucking yeah like it looked perfectly acceptable in the 80s. It got nominated for Academy

Awards for the special effect. Yeah. Right? Yeah, exactly. But today it's just like, okay, well, that's, this, this is the wrong idea here. Mm-hmm. And it's, yeah, the biggest insult to the film is just like, well, 20 years ago, it looked

better. Yeah. So strange. You can't even say, like, oh, it's the technological limitations of its time. Well, 20 years ago, they looked perfectly fine, so you don't have that excuse anymore. All it says is, like, they just couldn't do it as good as the original. That's the only thing that it proves is that like they tried and they didn't do as good of a job. It's almost like Kubrick is a better director than Hames.

What does he make? What's that guy even done? Exactly. Time call. Exactly. Oh, okay. There you go. Yeah.

Obviously worthy of directing the 2001 of Space Odyssey sequel. Yeah. I wonder if the director was like, I passionately want to make this or if it was an IP that the studio had and was like, okay, who can direct this sort of thing. You know? Yeah. I wonder which one of those it was. I feel like I'd be kind of nervous to direct a sequel to 2001 Space Odyssey. I wouldn't want to do that, even if I really liked it.

It shows a bit of naivety. Yeah, there's a lot like you have to live up to. It's too much pressure, really. Yeah, the way to do it is like how Nolan did it with Interstellar, where he's using what he likes about the original one, making it into his own thing while, you know, oading it. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Man, you know when Dave in the original goes through that trippy color sequence and all these flashing lights and everything, you know? Yeah. It's just so well done. And then you have almost what seems like an attempt in this film of like, oh, flashy lights, but it just looks like carnival circus. Yeah, it looks like crap. And like the interior of the ship has just has all these like way too many lights going on. Way too many like red, red buttons and shit. Just like distracting the entire atmosphere and mood and setting, you know?

It's just overkill. Did you notice some of the weird shoddiness with like, do you remember early on in the movie there's like a future car that's driving down a road? And the future car like can't even drive in a straight line. That's funny. That's funny. It like veers off into the middle of the road and it's like, the main character has just, it's just got some weird quirks to his performance.

Like it seemed like he wasn't given enough context as to what was really going on. Like there's lots of scenes of him sat at computers like clearly not really understanding what you should be doing on a keyboard and just like laughing and just strange things. It's just a I just kept saying to myself like this is a weird movie. It's weird. The fact this exists is weird. The fact like nothing about it works is weird. Why does this exist? Like another thing that's crazy about it is that just a level of dedication.

they went to despite that like Kubrick destroyed all of the we made he didn't personally destroyed but he got all of those original like models from the original film destroyed after making it so no one else could use them again so the crew for this movie took like screenshots effectively and and rebuilt like sets and models just using the imagery from that first movie which is like so much work and then in the end the effect shots don't even look that great it's just yeah it's disappointing I love how they used a clip from the original film in the Pan Am commercial. If you notice that.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just one of the ship shots from the original, they'd just put into the commercial and pretended like it was a part of that. Apparently, it had some early CGI in it, this movie. It did. Yeah, with all the monoliths at the end? Was that the early CGR?

I mean, there were some shots of, like, the planets that were CG, too. Yeah, I guess there, so. Yeah, the zero gravity. effects I really had issue with. They didn't look. When they were plugging hell back in, that didn't look as convincing as like the original one.

Yeah. The way he would turn, it kind of just looked like he was on a wire or like some kind of rod. It was so obvious. Yeah. There was like no momentum really. I mean,

I just don't want to shit all over the movie. I like the cast. I think the cast is fine. Yeah. I just, I wish it was better. I was trying to find things to like about it. Yeah, it's so average.

I was. And it's hard to enjoy it. I can't. Yeah. Is your daughter blind? Good. My son likes blinds. Okay.

That was a little weird. Christ, this thing is big. Yeah. It's just a weird one. I'll be scared enough for both of us. Hot dog. There's this whole like Cold War kind of thing on. Oh, yeah.

The whole stuff. With Russians. Hell and it's like a Russian. Yeah. And it's supposed to, so was the movie like an allegory for that, like Russians and and Americans working together, like, getting over, like, some kind of war? Yes, like the Cold War, I guess it's still going on in this universe. Yeah.

You know, one thing I said that 2001 Space Odyssey needs is more war. And it's a war subplot. Yeah. More action. Yeah. There's like a crash scene where, like, a guy flies across the ship and there sparks flying. Yeah, ends with an explosion. They're, like, flying away from it.

Nice. That's what it needed. Yeah. So they send a message from hell. It's literally coming from hell And he just sends the message over and over saying like Yo don't land on Europa You're not allowed there

And that stops the Cold War Yeah Everybody's like fine and they're like oh there's two sons now It's like a like a watchman thing Like in the original Watchman comic spoilers for Watchmen But like it's like a big giant squid teleporting in will stop the Cold War Like I mean maybe it's like something about like

Today's current events but a worldwide like Problem does not stop conflict Lichten, we all know that now, so it's a lot sillier in retrospect. And it's also, like, the original movie kind of covers similar themes with the, you know, the creation of intelligence and the creation of, like, war and, you know, using weaponry. That whole kind of idea is, is kind of explained, but you just have to get there on your own a bit more. It's subtle. Yeah.

It's up to your interpretation as opposed to, like, periodically being told by, you know, the characters on the news, like. It's just the backtrue. Oh, now war has broken out. and he has to go over to the other spaceship now because you're going to allow to hang out with each other so that he can have the plot device happen to him. So getting back to that whole transmission, was that like the whole point of everything that happened?

So like were they trying to say that like the events in the first film, them finding the monolith on the moon and then going to like near Jupiter and then Dave getting sucked through and becoming like a timeless being or whatever? That was all for the sake of the monoliths just saying,

yo, don't go to Europa. You can have whatever else you want, but that's ours. That was literally like the whole point of everything that happened in the entire story? Is that what happened? Am I incorrect?

I think you're right. That was, okay. They kind of... They couldn't have sent their own message. The ending shot is the monolith, isn't it? Like on the primitive planet, kind of the same way as 2001 opens, right?

That's how this movie ends, which I guess is explaining the monoliths, you know, they do. what they do in the first movie and they encourage intelligence and they're like the in Prometheus they're like the you know the life makers

yeah this movie needed some black go they multiply themselves in Jupiter's spot and they do this thing where like the thing explodes and the ships are there and the ships have to get out of the way in time and all I'm thinking is like was this going to happen regardless of whether or not Dave showed up like what the fact that they showed up What does he have to do with?

Encouraged this event to happen? And they, like, it was all they needed hell? Did they just need hell to, like, any computer to send the message? What does it even matter if, like, the humans know? Like, if they were just hanging out and there was the cold, like, they're doing their Cold War stuff and then, like, a planet explodes. And now the same thing would have happened. Yeah.

They probably would have gone up there and checked it out. Like, oh, there's some planets up here. Yeah, it's not clear what the goal of the movie, what, like, the purpose of the movie is. The entire story. What is Dave's, like, Dave, like, ascended into, like, a god, basically. but he doesn't guide us. He tells people what to do sometimes. Yeah.

He can appear on TV. Visit his dying mother. There's that line when they're trying to figure out what's happening on Jupiter as they're multiplying. It's like, at what rate are they increasing? And then they, Hal, I think, says, once every two minutes, it's like, well, are they multiplying by two every two minutes?

Like, what, that's not a rate. You're a computer. You should be, once every two minutes, what does that mean? one every two minutes or are they duplicating like doubling every two minutes? Yeah, one every two minutes. That's not a lot. They shouldn't have been that many.

They're increasing once every two minutes, but increasing by what amount? I'll never know. Guess not. Oh, yeah. Sorry, I just found out my notes. The fucking calculator shots when there's that whole countdown. He's like going back, like, he's got a calculator. Oh, that was so bad.

Loser Calculator. I did get some good loves from this movie. And then the dude stays there for way too fucking long. The entire scene where it's like, okay, you could have communicated this in such less time. There's no reason why you had to withhold the information to Hal that there was danger there. That would have encouraged him to go. That's what you want him to do. Why were you withholding that information?

And then they just fucking leave while he's still outside the ship. He took way too long. So stupid. I've got a weird theory about this movie. Sure. Speaking of M-night Chamon, right? I think he might secretly love this movie, and do you want to know why? Oh, yeah?

You mentioned the hot dog thing, right? Sure. Remember another M-night movie that has a random hot-dog monologue. Yeah, but get this, though, as well. Mary Jo de Chanel is in this movie. Oh! Oh! Oh, wow.

Her daughter is in that movie. That's hilarious. Coincidence? I think not. Maybe, yeah. This is 2001 if it was set in the happening universe. That makes, now it makes sense. Now it's a good movie.

If it was an M9 film. If Zoe De Chanel had the hot talk line, I think it would be more, I would go along with your fear. Yeah, yeah. There's another thing I want to mention that was just in my notes coming back to like just how the film is presented. There's dialogue between Hal and other characters, especially when Hal is first introduced. And the most glaring thing about the way it was presented in terms of,

of how it's different to the original film is just the way that it was edited, the sentences and how quickly the characters respond to each other. Because there's a natural tension in the pacing in the first film when there's more space between the words that they say to each other, the sentences that they say, and you can tell that they're like thinking

and there's like a creepiness to how because he doesn't respond right away. But in this film, it's just like, but, but, just like a regular conversation. And it's like, wow,

that's just a, a tiny little thing that you can do in the editing process that just adds so much is just the pacing of it yeah the silence has added added a little more tension to it and then the ship ambience too like just the sound of 2001 the use of sound was so great and this movie it's very like lackluster just like any other sci-fi movie you'd see there's no attention paid to like even the minimal sound design in 2001 it was very minimal very loud very like lots of like anxiety kind of sounds like sounds that would give you anxiety like when the ships were beeping and whatever and this is nothing in that in this movie it's just bland the film also had that really shitty thing where everything's really really really really

loud in the loud parts and then really quiet in the not loud parts i don't remember that being an issue with 2001 i don't remember having to constantly adjust my volume i don't know Yeah, the opening of the film was so fucking loud in this one I would have liked to see this in a theater I'm not gonna judge the sound mix really Yeah, true 2001 is really loud if you see in a theater though the way like I saw it when it was In the theater like a few years ago yeah me too Yeah, oh you did yeah

Did you notice how like loud the mix was when you saw it in the theater environment I mean yeah it was it was loud but that's like I don't know That's like more of a theater thing I guess yeah I feel like it would be the same like if if you played this movie a theater. I don't have much of an issue. I just saw like the actual, the sound effects and everything like that. It was so planned using the sound in space. I actually drove

to the States to catch the 2001 re-release in theaters, and I watched that and Gotti. Both of which we're not playing in my city. Two of the best films ever made, yeah. And upgrades also in the same trip.

Pitbull. We mentioned Eminem earlier, but Pitbull is really great with that body soundtrack. That's probably my favorite. Pitbull's got to be on the new Vellum song too. Oh my God, that's who Eminem can collaborate with. Eminem Pitbull. I won't accept anything else. Carnage.

I'm glad that you recommended it, Alex, because not only would I not have seen it otherwise, but I definitely wouldn't have finished it. Right. I definitely would not have sat through the entire film without you recommending it for the podcast. Well, yeah, I've always been curious about it because I, I remember finding it like years ago, like over a decade ago, and I'm DB and being like, what is this? Is this like even, is this like some rip-off thing?

But it's like, I saw John Lithgow there and like all these big actors. It's a big production. And I guess for the time, it was fairly impressive in terms of like a big Hollywood spectacle. But man, it does not hold up nowadays. I don't think it made that much money. Yeah, I saw it was up against David Lynch's Duton. Yeah. It says budget of 28 million in box office.

is 40.4 million. So not that great. Yeah. Oopsie. It's just not very good, is it? It's just, I think there's a reason that no one remembers this and no one talks about this. Yeah. There's no reason to watch it.

I wish I liked it more. It is painfully average, which is not what 2001 is. I wish it wasn't that. It's dated. It's stuck in the 80s. Yeah. If you want more 2001, surely it would be better to read the book

and then just go through all the awful books if you want that story in a more consistent voice, you know? Maybe. If there had been more of these, then I would have liked it. Oh, an extended universe? Yeah, if it was like the plan of the year. A long-in-one cinematic universe.

An extended universe of cheesy 2001-themed movies. Yeah, I could be down with that. A bunch of monoliths. There's like fight scenes with monoliths. And Hal just keeps coming back like Jigsaw in the Saw series. They have like Alien versus Monolith. And then Hal had like a secret brother. And then some other people were just off screen the entire time in 2001 helping out.

And that's how everything happened. There were parts that reminded me of alien. Like the characters all kind of talking over the table. Yeah. The buddy budding. I know. Yeah. Yeah.

It was like an alien 2001 mix up in the 80s. Except without like tension. Yeah. Without. Atmosphere. Entertainment. Yeah. Very boring

Very very very boring I cannot tell you Just just The emotions that went through me In the first 13 minutes of the film Where it was like the intro They're like you know It's just showing all the stuff from the original 2001

I'm like okay not bad so far But you're not doing anything new yet And then as soon as it gets to like they're They're like outside and he's having a conversation with that old guy And he's like up on the staircase or whatever and they just like back and forth I'm like holy god this is just this is like the most

uninteresting thing I've ever heard in my entire life and there were like several moments where I was like I had to snap out of other things that were going on in my head I'm like oh shit I'm watching a movie I was just thinking about other things like fuck it happened so much I watched the two back to back and I've managed you know I'm sitting and watching 2001

just vibe in and this one put me to sleep like halfway through I think he was talking to Helen I was talking to Helen Mirren and I'm like dozing off and I'm like this is This is a movie where they're actually having conversations, as opposed to a movie where it's just like, it's just shots of space. But I'm more engaged in that, and I'm falling asleep right now. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

All right. So would everybody rate the film? Oh, boy. Would you recommend it? No. Don't watch this. I wouldn't not recommend it. I would probably give it a five out of ten.

It's an average. It's an average 80s sci-fi film. Yeah. 2001 stuff in it. I'm a little bit below Ralph. I found a lot of humor in this movie I don't know if that's just me but I was laughing at some of it

because just that dialogue especially for me it just felt like the guy from Jaws was just like playing the same character it was bizarre like this Hollywood legend yeah it was very weird two star out of five for me I think I think probably four out of ten it's like just below being average

Like, if it was, it was just like, I didn't want to watch it after a little while. I'm like, this is, this is not enjoyable. It's not enjoyable, yeah. And I'm giving this one a two out of ten. It was a boring piece of shit. It was garbage. Oh, my God. We're going to need a bigger shit.

All right. Oh, my gosh, yeah. So, thank you for the recommendation, Alex. It's very much appreciated. No worries. Thank you. Yeah. Question time?

Okay, let's do it. Let's answer some questions from the Sardonicast community. If you want to leave questions for us to answer on future episodes, head over to the Sardonacast subreddit, where there'll be a suggestion thread. Let's start with this one then from Crow Guys. What movie cliche is your guilty pleasure? What cliche you don't mind seeing or even somewhat enjoy seeing when it's done right? Obvious one would, I guess, be breaking the fourth wall.

It really just depends on. on how it's handled. There's some movies where it's obnoxious and some movies where it works out really well. Yeah. Yes. I think we actually have a question about that later, too. Okay.

I like a good hero's journey. Like, when it's done really well and you can really feel for that one character, I really like that. That's a good answer. I've got a soft spot for lines in movies that acknowledge how ridiculous or silly it is. Yeah.

Lupa does it. Mission Impossible does it. It's often in action movies where it's the filmmaker directly acknowledging the silliness and being like, look. Yeah, that's like Jeremy Runner's. Looper. Yeah, exactly. It doesn't matter. Yeah. And like you said, the Mission Impossible movies,

like Jeremy Runner's whole character is just the guy who's like, this is ridiculous, how are we doing this? And they're like, don't worry about it. That's cool. Yeah, I think that's key. I can't think of any. And I love trash, so I'm shocked I can't think of anything. Just trash. What about the strings, Ralph?

You like the strings, don't you? Yeah, but I hate the violins. I hate that crap. There's one instrument you would murder. What about like a cat screaming? Yeah, it's all like sound design stuff. I'll think of something maybe. Yeah, I do agree with the hero's journey thing because like...

Yeah, that's a good one. If there's no substance to it at all, then, you know, you can't just have that structure in a film and then hope that it works. But a lot of classic movies follow... very specific formulas, but there's enough going on in terms of how they're made technically and how the characters are written, how things are presented that like, okay, it's clear why this is a formula. It's because it works. You can do it really badly.

It's really easy to mess up, but there's also enough room to do it differently than everything else. Yeah, if you have actual stakes and consequences in there at some point in the film. Yeah. There isn't much of a journey if there isn't like pain and suffering at some point. Yeah, here's journeys are good when they have like the villain that's the mirror image of them, but going down like a different path. I like that a lot. Yeah, that's always fun.

How about we do this one from Illegal the Amiga? A question towards Marcus, but of course you boys can answer too. Oh. What e-sports game do you like watching on a high level or create some of the hyperest moments? Tekken Melei comes to mind for me. honestly like when you go see like a i don't know if you guys have like actually like watched like uh like e-sports and like person they're a lot more exciting in person like i remember um when i was i went to a fighting game tournament here where i live in orlando and whatever random game they played they're

playing like stuff i've never even heard of but people are so excited just to watch it in person honestly most like most esports are actually pretty fun if you're watching it in person um teckin's really fun to watch even games like i've got i've got to don't play, I'll watch them. But the more interesting thing is what games people don't like watching. Yeah. That's always really funny. Yeah. At that same tournament, I was, the, the Street Fighter Cross Tekken game came out.

And it was so boring. People were, like, no one was, like, people, like, falling asleep in their seats because it was, like, 9 a.m. for the tournament. And the, they didn't even do the finals. They just decided to split the money because they know people didn't want to watch it. That's funny. Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm not huge into the competitive gaming scene. I would much rather, if we're talking about speed runners as a competitive gaming thing, then sure.

But in terms of like, okay, yeah, then any speed running I find interesting to watch. I'm just not a big fan of, you know, as much as I love Halo, I'm not going to watch people play Halo against each other and be entertained by that. And then the ones that I enjoy the least would be like League of Legends or something where it's like, I don't even understand what's going to. going on. It's so hard to watch. I don't even know what's happening here. Mm-hmm. Or Starcraft and stuff, yeah.

I like that game, but I would never watch it. It's so unengaging. Yeah, I was really into Smash Bros. Ultimate stuff when that came out. Just Smash Bros. in general. I don't know.

It's like simple enough, but the mastery is just so ridiculous. Yeah. Because, like, everybody's played it and you know, like, you can tell when someone's doing something impressive because you've probably dabbled.

Yeah, I think the design is just so good in that game. I watched some Counterstrike when I was younger, but that's it. Like, yeah, that's it. I'm not big into e-sports now. I haven't watched any of them. Not even Minecraft? No, not Minecraft.

Rainbow Six Siege a little bit. Competitive Minecraft. It exists. Yeah, this is like Call of Duty. But I'm not like active. Minecraft Hunger Games. Yeah, Minecraft's making a comeback. I just play it.

It is. Yeah, people like Minecraft again. Did it ever go away? Oh, that's cool. Like now like, people like just like it now. Yeah. Before they're like, oh, it's for babies. But not people are like, no, it's pretty good.

Yeah, it's fucking awesome. Like Minecraft. Yeah. Minecraft is good. Yeah. There's a channel I discovered recently that's got like 10 million subscribers called Dream. I was like, holy shit, I'm actually kind of enjoying a Minecraft let's play channel.

They've got like good setups. It's like the guy is like a speed runner and he'll get like four of his friends with the objective of just like killing him before he can beat the game. And they've all got like souped up armor. That sounds awesome. Yeah. It's actually pretty entertaining. I'll write that down.

I want to watch that. Yeah. Shout out to dream. We've got a quick one for you, Adam, if you want to do this. Yes. Ogie doggie dunges. So, the question for Adam. How do you barf on command?

It's like you just use your stomach in the same way that you use your lungs when you exhale. You're like squeeze the muscles around your stomach. It's easier if you have a more full stomach. It's easier if it's like, liquids, even carbonated liquids. But yeah, it's like... You put your research in. It's not research.

I'm just describing something that comes naturally to me. It's not like I... How did you discover this, though? How did I discover it? Yeah, you have a story of the first time. Like, you got a... There must have been a first time you did it. When did you discover this power?

I don't know. I just like... I burp a lot. And like, depending on, like, what food I eat, like, that'll happen more often. So you just burbs involved in my life. I don't know. I've got like a weird digestive system. Sometimes I'll like eat food.

food and then like half an hour later I'll burp and then there's like food in my mouth. It's like it's not normal. It's like I know, I don't know. Maybe I should see a doctor. That's not supposed to happen. Yeah, I might have some issues. Body's just rejecting what you put in.

Space pretzel has one for us like a teased earlier. What are some of the best examples of fourth wall breaks you can think of and what are some of the worst? Have you guys seen Fleabag? It's a TV show? No.

I've seen an episode of it. It's been recommended. I've heard good things. It had, like, the main character, like, she talks to the, like, the audience, because that's, like, part of her character. She, like, confides in you

because she doesn't have any friends. And she doesn't have anybody that, like, relates to her. And not to spoil it, but, like, there's a character later who does relate to her, and he, like, looks directly at the camera and acknowledges you for the first time. It's really, really cool.

It's like really freaky. That's cool. I always liked house of cards for that. Okay. You can't release, you know, Kevin Spacey and all that, but he was a good performer. And every time you would do that was when I was, like, enjoying that show the most, because the writing was really good. The monologues were really fiery.

That's a good one. I don't know. The Simpsons usually does it pretty well. Oh, yeah? Yeah, that's a good one, actually. When they talk about how shitty it is that they're on Fox. Yeah. Yeah. Or like they talk about old writers.

Like they mentioned, uh, or like people on SNL. Like Joe Piscopo, they make jokes about him. It's like funny. Like Homer makes jokes about him. Like, that's just like the writers fucking with Joe Piscopo or like, you know. Yeah, that's funny. I enjoy that stuff. I usually don't like fourth wall breaks. Like how do we feel about Deadpool or like something like that? That's like the mainstream.

Like I think of Deadpool when I think Fourth Wall Break. I don't really like the Deadpool one. It's become more like. commonplace to have like fourth ball breaks nowadays because of stuff like that or like now it's like not really as novel anymore yeah yeah using it lazily i think is the problem yeah deadpool made it mainstream yeah like funny games and house of cards and all of these they they have a real intent and like with a story for doing it but when comedy applies it like the worst example in my mind is big mouth you guys probably haven't seen it but there's they break the fourth wall so much and it's the

laziest shit every time. It's just, there's nothing surprising about it. There's no, like, set up and punchline to it. It's just the easiest gag you can make. It's just to break the fourth wall in that moment and just distract you. Yeah, yeah. It's lazy. It's just like, it's very easy to break the fourth wall.

Just be like, isn't this dumb? When they, it's worse when they, like, bring up their own flaws in their writing, like, oh, that's just, like, when Deadpool says, like, oh, that's just bad writing. Like, okay, you wrote it, though, like, guy who made the movie. making dental say this. Yeah. Like, I'm not, I'm not fooled. It's okay now.

The writer should think that to themselves and then, like, write a good line. Yeah, you're smart enough to know it. They're not smart enough to fix it. My, uh, my examples for best would be funny games and, uh, without getting too specific as to not spoil the film, uh, the Holy Mountain has one of the best examples of fourth wall breaking ever, I think. And yeah, funny games could also be someone's worst, depending on how they feel

about the film. I know a lot of people hate it for that reason, but, you know, depends on what you get out of it, I guess. Is adaptation a fourth wall break? I would say so. Kind of. Yeah. I love adaptation. Yeah. It's like more clever. Again, just breaking me.

You could say that for like, in a way, like multiple Charlie Kaufman films. Because it's like, Synecichy is so meta. And same with the newest film I'm thinking of ending things. It's like, I wonder if that counts, I guess. It's like two different things. Just being like super meta. and like about the movie and about you, the person watching it itself,

without specifically saying it in like an obvious way. Yeah. But it's clearly a part of the themes. And it's clearly what you're supposed to be thinking about. But it just doesn't like spell it out to you, I guess. I think that counts. Yeah. I mean like fourth wall breaking used to not just be like,

oh, the character looks at you and says a funny thing. Like it used to be like other stuff to like pulling you out and like making you think about the movie in a different way. Like literally just breaking down that wall between you and the movie. Mm-hmm. Well, as Ralph mentioned, The Simpsons. Goosey McGoose Face 2 says, Favorite Simpsons Moment.

Oh, wow. This is always just, like, kind of been in my back pocket, I guess. When I think of the Simpsons and how, just how well presented it was when they were in their golden years, I think of moments, like, from an episode called Marge,

be not proud, I think, is the episode title or something like that. But basically it's the one where Bart wants the new video game. He steals it from a store. It's near Christmas. And we get this like really, really great character moment with Marge and Bart where she stops like tucking him into bed and saying that she loves him every night. Because her idea of what he is as a character and what he is as like a child, she's like, oh no, he's growing up. He's being like his own person.

I can't reasonably expect to have this idea in my head of what Bart is to me anymore, right? And so, like, that part of her life is, like, broken. And you get those moments where they're making analogies to, like, the bathroom rug and how it just soaks up everything and, you know, like, how she, like, represses her emotions and stuff. That's what I think about when I think of, like, how great The Simpsons was initially. And, yeah, there's tons of amazing jokes and great, clever gags and all that. I love that so much too But what's really missing Not only in the new episodes of the Simpsons

But in every Simpsons clone like Family Guy Is having real genuine Character moments that can get emotional Like they pretend in Family Guy like Oh no Brian's dying for real this time Even though we've showed him die like 800 times in flashbacks But this time it's real And they have that like music cue

Of like oh it's sad now It's like so fake and phone and they try to emulate these real emotions, but they just can't do it. Whereas in early The Simpsons, it was just impeccable. They successfully had emotions like that. It's great.

Yeah, there are a lot of good emotional moments. I don't watch a lot of Simpsons, but those are the moments that stand out to me. Like, the one where Bart, I don't remember exactly the context, but he has to study for a test or something, and he actually tries really hard,

but he still doesn't do well, and he actually breaks down. He's like, I actually tried, and it didn't work. Like, that hits me. I'm like, because that happens. sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, there was a lot more heart to it. Yeah. Yeah, one of my favorite episodes is, I think it's called, well, it's the one where home against heart surgery. Um, it has like a little emotional moment

like that, but it also has so many great jokes, so much commentary on like the American health sector and everything. It's, it was just so witty and smart and it could jump around so much, so well written. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I don't know. The tree house of horrors are always memorable. I've always enjoyed those. And that's example of, like, great parody, like, really funny, clever. I'd never seen, like, the Shining before the Tree House of Horror one I've seen. And, like, Homer, like, freaking out was funny. Donut Helm.

Yeah, isn't there a 2001 one of those? Yeah, this is 2001. They parodied everything. Yeah. Every major pop culture thing. The Donut Hell is really funny. Yeah. It's, like, I think 3D Homer is a treehouse of horror.

Oh, yeah. That was, like, season six or something. That was, like, groundbreaking. Yeah, he's like, I remember seeing. that. That's pretty funny. I mean, I bet by today's standards, it looks like crap, but back then I was like, whoa. Yeah, they were pretty like ahead of the times when it came to a lot on the show. Like writing, it was like one of the first shows. It was basically the show that changed how people perceived animation and whether or not you could have a show that was appealing to adults that was animated.

Yeah. Early The Simpsons is just so fucking good. Yeah, it's a genius setup. So great. Just everyone can relate to it. Yeah. Seasons two through four are like perfect, like golden. Mm-hmm.

Okay. Rabid Mini Bear has one for us. I've noticed that some of the recommended movies aren't readily available on the major streaming services like Netflix or Amazon Prime. And then about two weeks after you guys publish the episode on those films, they appear on these platforms. So you think that you're talking about them bringing attention to it influences them, being placed on these platforms question mark or is it just a while coincidence i would say that the process probably takes a lot longer than two weeks yeah it might just be a coincidence yeah i'd need some some evidence of that too even if they listened to our podcast and was like let's get the rights

to that film i don't think it would happen in two weeks yeah i'm not 100% because like after i put the love on a leash interview up they took love and a leash off to be i think oh so you're the opposite i'm I'm gonna double check I might just Let me just make sure I'm not fucking Is it still on Amazon Prime? Oh no, it's here Okay

Okay Crisis averted I think they took it out Somewhere though Like I was trying to find it And was like oh it's not here anymore They IP banned you from watching the film again It's on Amazon

Yeah You can't watch your on Amazon Oh shit Why would they take that down Whatever Shark repellent 1991 as one what do you think is the most improved sequel is in what sequel do you believe has the greatest

increase in quality over its predecessor obviously 2010 the year we made time time time yeah mentioned the second blade rudder i think that one's really great sequel depending on what you like out of a movie uh godfather two uh terminator two terminator two that's great it's like so much better than the original i like the original lot of like terminator two is like even just shot like a made like way better true people say Spider-Man, too. I think they're about like, I think they're equal to me. But Spider-Man 2, like, it does bring a lot more heart emotion. I reckon a winter soldier compared to that first character's an American movie. Yeah, that's true. Because that first one I really thought was

weak and winter soldiers are really solid. Yeah. I mean, I don't like either of them, but, uh, Evil Dead 2 is a good example. Yeah. Evil 2 is like, like, just way different. It's like Almost like an alternate universe retelling of the first one. Yeah. They focused on their strengths and improved the idea of what the film should be, I guess. Oh, Mission Impossible, Fallout. That's one for me. Yeah.

That movie's really good. Which Madagascar is your favorite, Alex? Three. Yeah. Yeah, thanks for that, actually. That's a great answer. You're welcome. You're welcome.

Death Race 2. How about like a Mad Max Fury Road? That's better than all the... Yeah. For those three Mad Max movies. I haven't seen the other ones, but I would assume. Some people love Road Warrior, though. They think Road Warrior's better.

Which is also a sequel. I wouldn't. Yeah, which is also a sequel to Bad Max. You know what? Road Warrior is a huge improvement to Mad Max, which I like. But Road Warrior is much cornyer. Like, it's a lot of embraces the campy tone of it, and that makes it more fun.

Because the idea of Mad Max is very silly. The post-apocalyptic car-fueled, like, world. It's, like, kind of silly. It doesn't really work in the serious. tone. Human centipede 2. Was it an improvement? What about Hellboy 2?

Oh, I actually like Hellboy 2 a lot. I don't know if it's an improvement. Maybe like visually. I think it's significantly better than the first one. The first one is really aged now. A few years ago we visited them and that first one is not up to par. But the second one has all the like Guillermo stuff you expect with the creature designs and the practical design. I remember that stuff.

The creature stuff was really cool. I actually think Toy Story 2 is the best Toy Story movie Yes 100% And it doesn't it's not like aged as badly too Like you watch Toy Story 1 Like some stuff in that movie looks horrifying But like Toy Story 2 looks pretty good Yeah

The Dark Night is a sequel to Batman Begins That's true Oh yeah there we go That's a good one in Or Logan also Yeah Because Logan is easily the best Like Wolverine movie

Of X men there's like a few other good ones, but Wolverine movies, that's easily the best Wolverine movie. People used to say like just X-Men 2, like back before like the first class spin-off stuff started happening. Like people say X-Men 2 is like the better than X-Men 1. And Days of Future Past. Yeah, those are great. Before Sunset is my favorite in that trilogy. That's your favorite? Yeah. That's the second one, right?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right, we got a few, I think. Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of good sequels out there. I mean, there's more bad sequels than good sequels. Sure. They get a bad rap, but you know, you can make a good sequel. Carnage.

That's right. It's right. The best sequel. And the follow-up song will be the best sequel to the Venom song. The best sequel song. Yeah. Eminem and Pitbull. Make it happen.

Coalabble already did Aquaman though. Exactly. Exactly. He already had his allegiance with DC. Oh my God. I forgot. He did the, uh, what's the cover? that song.

It was Africa? Africa, that's right. That was hilarious. Perfect film. They need to just cover a song for the Venom movie and collab. They could do Pitbull doing a cover of Venom. They should be listening to this because that would get me in the theater. I wouldn't watch it otherwise.

We're making demands. And if they are not met, we will not see your film. We're holding the Venom movie hostage. We've got an army. Yeah, we have an army. They're going to give you bad reviews. That's what we do. Let's do this one from The Wizard of Oswald.

Knowing your guys' opinions on him as a filmmaker, I'm curious to know. Out of his eight movies, what is your favorite Zach Snyder movie? I haven't seen one in a long time, but probably Donna the Dead. Yeah, that would be my pick, if not watch him on. I guess. Yeah. It's not amazing, but it was cool for the time. Probably.

I'd say 300. 300 doesn't like, like, you know, completely ruin the source material. Because it's, like, it's just a comic about people punching and kicking each other. So, like, he's pretty good at that. I would agree with you. I think 300 is his best, like, most iconic movie. It's, like, very distinct in my mind, like, the style of it. Moments of the Last Time you saw it.

Like, I'm just curious how it's like to watch him. It's not fairly recently. I saw it a few months ago, actually. It still holds up. Yeah, I was like, this is actually pretty cool. Because I rag on him a lot, like, in my videos and stuff. But, like, I had that on, a friend's house. I was like, wait, this is actually kind of interesting.

I'm, like, watching this movie right now. Yeah, it's kind of the perfect project for him. Yeah, it suits his style. It suits what he's capable of. Like, that's kind of like his thing. Screaming shirt. Yeah. That's what the whole thing is.

Whereas, like, when you make him, like, actually make people have emotions, and like act like humans. Yeah, any philosophy as well when he tries to deal with that. This sounds like a joke, but I remember enjoying Legend of the Guardians

the Owls of Gahul aside from one scene. He made that? I could probably watch that again, honestly. I enjoyed that movie too. Yeah, that's probably one of my favorite one of my favorite. Yeah, it's very odd. It was just that one moment where things got really sappy and they could not fucking help themselves

and they put an owl city song in the sound... Yeah, that was funny. This is an Owl City song. Yeah, and they had that really shitty montage. That was funny as hell. That was the moment where I was like, this isn't good anymore.

And then it got pretty, and then it was fine after that point. No, that's some Mark Webb shit. There's a lot of speed up slow-mo in that movie. A lot of, you know, his trademark bits. Oh, my God. The Ows, like, flying in slow motion with rain. It was cool.

Yeah, it had some cool shit. Yeah, I don't know. It almost didn't have an audience because it was like too cool to be a kid's movie. points. And then in that one montage, it's like, oh, it's a kids movie again. So, I don't know. Didn't they all have Australian accents or something? Oh, I don't remember. Australian owls. I watched it in theaters once and haven't seen it since. I could check it out again. Yeah, let us know how that one is now. I'll get right on it. Did you have an answer, Alex? Did you say

something? Oh, did I not say one? I don't think so. No, Dawn of the Dead or, um, I don't know. I, I remember liking Watchman, but it's been a while. I just like the Watchman's stories. I'll just take what I can get, I suppose. It's been a massive form. I suppose there's a TV show. I haven't checked that out yet. It's pretty good.

I like it. It makes the movie kind of look a little worse. They make fun of him in the show actually a little bit. Oh, really? Yeah, they have a scene where they're like, they have like a TV adaptation of the events that happened in the past or whatever, and it's like, has like the sped up slow-mo, like, people like bleeding when you punch them once, like it's bones breaking.

It's like, obviously, like, kind of tease them a little bit. I just remember the sex scene being so bad in that movie. Yep. So weird in that place. Yeah. With the Leonard Cohen song that's used in the Snyder cut trailer. Patrick Wilson. Yeah.

He uses that a lot. I can't on hear Hallelujah as, like, this, the Shrek song. My favorite is the David Lieba Heart rendition in Shrek Ritold. Yeah. Should we end on this one then from a Gaza batter? Sure. What are your opinions on copyright and its effect on art? Is it bad because it inhibits people's ability to create what they want to

and overall restricts art in very crucial ways? Or is it good because it stops people from copying and being lazy? And what are your opinions on the current copyright system on art? I don't really know what that last question really means. I guess we can only talk in terms of YouTube or the United States. like let's talk you too yeah i've got a lot to say but i'll let you guys go first yeah how how like loose like because like i mean like we have movies already that are kind of like soft ripping off like other movies like you know you got like the i can't think of any of the top of my head but like you know

like when like the transformers and you have like the transmorphers just to avoid asylum getting in trouble with copyright i mean there's no way to know if like there were if there were no copyright laws like this weird alternate universe where like you can just make a Mickey Mouse movie without anybody yelling at you yeah there you go but there's like no way to know like

how it would be otherwise what about you yeah it just seems like a reality of the world we live in that yeah it's an industry around capital money and you need to protect that in some form when you're making like a product I guess

and then it becomes a very muddy and confusing when you're talking about art and the way it does inherently restrict it but I'm not really sure what you can do about it with the system we're already in what the solutions are because I think about like movies are quite an old art form compared to something like video games yeah video games they're kind of with it you know like on YouTube you can use like any part of cutscenes for the most part unless it's you know using licensed music but for the most part I've never had any issues like covering any video game.

Yeah, they're just cool with it. They don't care. And their stories and the cutscenes and stuff. You can like show the whole cutscene and it's fine and stuff. But anything to do with movies and TV, they're a lot more strict because I guess it's just, that's just the standard for that medium. It's not consistent though.

It's really annoying. Yeah, it's not consistent and it is a case-by-case basis thing and it does, it absolutely affects the creativity of it. But again, I don't know about absolutely. though. It's like, like you said, when you're doing a video game video, like, it's a breeze. You don't have to even think that your video is going to get taken down. Like, it's not even a thought in my mind.

But then like, Warner Brothers specifically, like, if I'm doing a movie on a video on a Warner Brothers movie, I'm like, all right. What am I going to do to, like, not get my video blocked for some arbitrary reason? Yeah, they're very stringent with that. When it comes to things like video games and copyright, the part of the reason why it's, um, there's a lot less restrictions when it comes from video games. video game companies, and this took Nintendo a while to actually be of the same mentality as Microsoft and Sony.

But part of the reason for it is because the demographic of video game purchasers also heavily overlaps with internet content, internet media. It's true. Streamers, YouTube reviewers, et cetera, et cetera. And so it's much, much more obvious for any company to be like, oh, wow, people are promoting this thing, our sales are going up. And that's true for films, too. it's just a lot less obvious for film studios.

They're a bit behind the times on that because their target demographic isn't just people on the internet. Now they're moving towards that. You know, like a YouTube trailer is going to be like more effective in ways depending on the film than putting a trailer in front of another movie at this point. So we are moving towards companies fully understanding that like, yes, this is promotion for your product. How fair use works and fair dealing if you're in Canada or other countries.

but essentially the same thing is that there are many different factors that go into determining whether or not a usage is fair. I think, you know, as much as I love fair use and it allows us to do exactly what we're doing on the internet, I think that there should actually be less factors even considered. I think that the most important factor by far is whether or not you're doing something that's transformative and serves a different purpose from the original. because the entire goal of copyright in the first place is to protect copyright owners. It is to make it so that if somebody makes something, they have the ability to sell and merchandise their own intellectual property without fear of other people capitalizing on that.

If some indie director makes like a cool movie and then all of a sudden some other company jumps in is like, we're going to merchandise that. You want to obviously have those protections. However, copyright law has changed over time thanks to companies like, Disney where it's kind of lost the fucking plot, where the original goals of copyright aren't even necessarily what's happening in the laws right now. It's causing more restrictions on art and creativity than it should, when obviously the goal should just be protecting copyright holders. So in my opinion, if you create something that you're clearly not taking from the market

that they are already in, whether it's a review or like a commentary or something like that, if you can reasonably argue that your product is something that will not be used to get the same experience out of what the original is selling,

then I think that that should be totally fine. And I think that there should be a lot more restrictions when it comes to what copyright holders are able to do in terms of YouTube takedowns and shit like that. Like, I'm getting like three copyright claims a day right now, and it's really fucking annoying. Yes. And their system really heavily, it basically encourages copyright holders to abuse it because there's nothing that's going to happen badly for them.

They're not all the sudden going to go like, universal, you're not allowed to have copyright claims on our platform anymore. They get sued into the fucking ground. There's nothing YouTube can do about it because these are gigantic corporations that have a lot of money in power and can sue people at the, you know, flick of a hat, if that's the expression. I don't know. Yeah. So basically, there are protections, and that's nice for creativity and content creators like fair use. However, I think that there's tons of room for it to be improved. I think that there's so many things that could be done to make it so that, A, people's or

even corporations, copyrights, are still protected under the law, and B, people who want to use other people's works that are copyrighted are still able to freely do so in a way that doesn't impede on their market. So there's plenty of room for improvement. Copyright in its existence, I think, makes sense to protect people. I don't think that the idea or initial goals are malicious, but what it is turned into can certainly be interpreted in that way, depending on what case you go by. YouTubers struggle with that, the copyright stuff.

Who is the YouTuber that got, did he get sued by Warner Brothers? or was there some kind of lawsuit? Channel Chris will have a problem with... Oh, yeah. 2001 video, wasn't it? Yeah, there's more to that I can't say publicly, but... Really? Okay. There was a lot more to it than what was on the surface a little bit.

That's a pretty complicated one. Yeah, there's been a few, like, case law, kind of landmark cases, like Lens versus Universal Music Corp, where a woman used a Prince song. literally it was just completely incidental. She was recording a video of her baby dancing, and the Prince song happened to be playing in the background. The Prince song didn't play the whole song.

It was kind of like garbled audio. It wasn't like perfect quality or anything. But regardless, despite the fact that she wasn't directly commenting on the song, she wasn't criticizing the song. She wasn't even necessarily transforming the song itself into something original. She wound up winning the case because her video was, literally just like, it's my baby dancing. No one's going to my video because they would rather listen to the song here than purchasing

it legally, right? And so that, I think, is the most important factor to consider. And as we've seen in a few different scenarios of case law, that seems to be the most important one, too. The problem is when a studio or corporation tries to sue someone over copyright, they have to make a case of, like, actual lost revenue. otherwise they've lost the fucking plot. And when they can't do that,

it makes it really difficult for anyone to empathize for why they're suing in the first place. Like, why are you doing this? It seems like you're just abusing your powers and you're trying to control what other people can put out. Like, you're not losing any money over this, right? So I think it should be more clear and defined and there should be greater consequences for companies

that abuse the copyright systems. Yeah, like make it so that, like, you can't just claim it just because, it happens to have, you know, an inkling of what your, your copyright is. Like, the fact that, like, I'd remove, like, the, now, I don't know if you guys would notice this, but, like, the audio, like, the background music of a movie is starting to get claimed. Like, the movie itself will be fine, but the, now the music of the score in a scene

is what gets claimed. Yeah, but that's an essential part to the film. So it's really annoying to have to fight a claim based on the music alone. right? It's just, it's such a mess. Yeah. I feel like people, you know, especially with internet culture, remix, meme culture, whatever you want to call it, I think that people should be, if you want to be able to use like 10 seconds of a popular song in your video, even if you're not directly commenting on it or criticizing it, you should be able to do it just for the fact that it's literally impossible for

people to use your video as an alternative to purchasing the original song. That alone should be the reason why you should be able to do it. And sure, you can make the argument that like, oh, well, their song exists to be licensed and you should have to pay a license for it. I think that there's things YouTube could do in an automatic process that would make this a lot easier, where if, let's say you get claimed for like 10 seconds of a song in your video, that otherwise has nothing to do with that song, instead of the claimant all of a sudden getting 100 fucking percent of the revenue on your video, why don't you have just some sort of like revenue share process? Why don't you do it in a way where it can, you know, like you've detected

through content ID how much of the song is being used in the video. Why don't you say if the if the song is going like for 5% of the video they should get 5% of the revenue. I wouldn't give a shit. Why not? That seems like a fair amount, right? That seems entirely fair. I wouldn't even give a shit. But unfortunately because they're taking 100% of the revenue in my videos then I have to fight the claim right. Yeah. Like the video has nothing to do with this long. It was just there incidentally basically. The fact that you mentioned sharing. I actually haven't like I got a new note. on my, the Twilight videos that I mentioned, that it says that I am now sharing revenue with the person who, like, the person who made the score. Cool.

Of the movie because, like, the thing is, I don't know how much of that is being shared. It just says, oh, you're sharing with the corporate owner. Probably 50, 50. I mean, like, but there's no way to know. So, I mean, like, it's, YouTube also doesn't tell us very much. Yeah. It's all decided on the claimant's end. Yeah.

Yeah, you got to guess. Either way, it just, like, feels like a lost cause. Like, you know, they're not telling you. So just got to write it off as a lot. It's really annoying. Whatever. Do you have high hopes for the future or? Not really.

People are becoming more aware of it. Yeah. Disney has been trying to extend their copyrights throughout history and most recently they actually did not succeed. So the Steamboat Willie is actually going into the public domain very soon because they were actually unsuccessfully able to extend their copyrights, which is something that they've been doing. for a hundred years now.

So technically, I mean, like, that's a good sign, I guess. I don't know how likely it would be to roll back the changes that they've made and get it, you know, it used to be like 20 years. Then it was like artist death and artist death plus 20 years. And, you know, it just keeps going up. I don't know if we're ever going to see it go back to when it was more reasonable. But it seems like it's not as easy to abuse these things behind the scenes. And especially with the internet and people being like, hey, there's this.

law that you don't know is being passed. Maybe I'll share this around. Like, people are a bit more aware of these things happening now, thankfully. So, yeah. Do you think any studios, like, exist that would be willing to, you know, like the way Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo and all that, on their website, they have specific, like, pages listing the exact rules and technicalities of how you can use the footage of their games and stuff and what is okay and what isn't? Could you see any studios doing something like that and being like we're okay with you using anything of ours as long as it's like 10 seconds or less and I don't know that there is something you could do with that yeah I mean I think the way that the actual law is written is going to me be more of a determining

factor in this case like I could imagine a studio like trauma or something like some smaller you know kind of independent sort of thing doing something like that I can't imagine universal or anyone doing that because you have to remember that they have like teams of lawyers and as soon as they write something on their website even though I guess legally they could still retract that permission I think it would be a mess to even get that through to the point where you'd have some sort of defined text on a website because lawyers would just be like no because then this person would be able to do this and blah blah blah blah blah blah and it would just scare them out of it immediately so I don't know whereas like video games it's like an entirely different experience because the sale of

the video games, this is one of the reasons why even if video game companies didn't agree to this, there would still be a fair use argument to make is because every person's experience playing the game is a unique input from them that automatically by default changes it

and transforms the experience into something else. And their target market is not gameplay videos. That's not what they're selling. They're selling the gameplay experience. And so everybody's having their own experience with the game. so, you know, just in its own existence, a gameplay video is really easy to argue as fair use. Yeah, I think there's a lot of movie companies who are like, oh, that commentary video of my movie sure helps me in some way.

They probably don't think. Yeah, you know, it really depends on the studio. My Adam and Pals videos for the 13 reasons why I've gotten claimed, and Netflix was like, yeah, this is fine. So they just released it, which is cool. Sometimes it's just automatic, yeah. So just those certain studios they really just don't let go. Yeah. What's really weird is if it's multiple claimants for the same footage on the initial dispute,

it really just depends who it gets to first. So the email will get sent out to like eight different people if there's eight different claimants on the same footage. And if the person who gets to it first on the receiving end of that email is like, yeah, this is cool. Then it just is cool across the board. And if they decide that the claim is not valid, that applies for all of them. Isn't that fucked?

Isn't that so stupid? Oh my God, that's hilarious. That's awful. It's ridiculous. Oh, dear. What a mess. Yep. All right, I guess that about answers that question.

Yeah, that was a big one. Hey, rant mode. Finished. All right. There is a recommendation for the next episode. If you don't want to be spoiled for it, I guess I'll say that part after. Anyway, I guess there's a movie I haven't seen. I've always wanted to check it out.

I believe this is the first anime recommendation on the podcast. Correct me if I'm wrong. The Grave of the Fireflies is something I have not seen. Oh, cool, I've always wanted to check out. What about you, Ralph? I haven't seen it. I haven't even heard of it, so I'll be sure to watch it. I've never even heard of it.

Yeah, I don't... It's not very uplifting, and I'll put it that way. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. That sounds nice. Shocker, one of my recommendations is a little depressing. It's pretty heavy.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, uh, It's not a jibbley film, I don't think, but the director has directed other jibly films. Okay, cool. The grave of the fireflies from 1980 something? 1988. Looking forward to it.

If you don't want to be spoiled for the grave of the fireflies, watch it before listening to the next episode. These episodes come out every two weeks. You can listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com, signing up for premium $2 a month. you'll get these episodes as they're edited. Also, Patreon.com slash Sardonicast. Also, we got merch.

Link in the description. Is there anything you would like to plug, Marcus? Not really. Oh, wait. No, I lie. I forget that I have a podcast too. I have a podcast called Cosmonaut Tabletop where we play tabletop games like D&D and stuff.

I just forget to plug it. And I should probably remember that more often. Oh, you did it. Cool, cool. And your main channel, I guess. Yeah, Cosmonaut Variety Hour. Perfect. That's it.

Well, thank you so much for joining. That was a great discussion. Thank you. Thank you. It's a great movie that we like. My new favorite. Yeah, I hope you enjoyed my recommendation. I'll stop.

I won't torture you anymore. You'll play a sound. Yeah. God, I love the recorder. And that's that. Oh, God. All right. Thanks for listening, everybody.

Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thanks. Bye.