Sardonicast - Sardonicast #73: The Nightmare Before Christmas, Tokyo Story

Episode Date: November 16, 2020

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Buy Sardonicast T-Shirts, and other merchandise at https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast. Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthemoviemaker Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Timestamps: 0:00 - Intro 1:46 - Adam played Hunt Down the Freeman 15:20 - Nightmare on Elm Street 42:00 - Tokyo Story 1:07:48 - Q&A 1:08:00 - Do you think people being so focused on directors when discussing a film undermines other's work on the film, like set designers, concept artists, etc 1:10:50 - Are there any movies you think benefitted from a low budget (or perhaps the other way around, any high budget movies you think had too big a budget for their own good)? 1:15:54 - What are your thoughts on the people who don't like Charlie Kaufman's work because they think the characters are pathetic or privileged? 1:18:07 - Do you think there will ever be a point in time where VFX becomes indistinguishable to real life, or do you think the audience’s eyes will always adapt to and notice it? 1:24:40 - Do you gentlemen consider it viable for films to leave in footage of people, whether actors or stunt people, genuinely being injured? Is it exploitative or is it justified in that it provides the effect needed? 1:27:15 - What’s your opinion on television shows that try to tackle internet cultule? 1:32:09 - My girlfriend and I just watch Brazil. We both didn’t like the film. Alex, I follow you on Letterboxd and saw you gave it five stars. What did you like about the film? Adam and Ralph I would like to know you opinions too. 1:35:46 - What are your thoughts on YouTube ? 1:37:45 - What are your opinions on listening to album leaks? Is it morally wrong or disrespectful to the artist to listen to there music early? 1:44:30 - What makes reincorporation and callbacks work in a film? 1:46:03 - Is ther any good movies based off the lovecraftian mythos or on cosmic horror? If they aren't any do you think that there is a reason for that? 1:48:37 - Are there any banned/ unreleased films that you are most interested in watching? For example, Don’s Plum or The Day the Clown Cried. Alex's recommendation: Naked (1993) (Timestamps by christian larson)

Three, two, one. Since the beginning of time, mankind has been forced to compete for survival. This spirit of competition has reached a pinnacle in the relationship of three best friends who argue with each other about movies sometimes. Why? Glory for the winner. Humiliation for the loser. This is... Sardonicast, I'm Adam from your movie sex. How's it going? Hey. That's pretty good.

Um, you're the songs worth of a movie maker. I know, Max Mike's my actually And I always like the intros of music with them Yeah, always adds a certain Pannash, you know Pinnash. Well, yeah, the Kenny versus Spenny thing is great. Oh, yeah. It's a great show. Yeah.

Speaking of which, they've got a new single, they've got a pandemic special, I guess, coming out November 20th on CBC Gem, which is a free app or browser thing or whatever. It's like, It's like Netflix, but CBC, Canadian broadcasting. And I think it's free with ads.

And if you cannot access it, then try a VPN. And that might work. But I'm just letting everybody know. November 20th, it's possible that this is considered as a pilot or something. So if you want to show CBC that there is interest in more Kenny versus Spenny shit, then probably check it out. Also, I think the entirety of season one is on CBC gem. So yeah.

Kenny and Spenny are back. They're back. We need more single white Spenny. Yeah, exactly. That was a great show. We needed a season two. So I played a game yesterday. Good one, I hope.

Called Hunt Down the Freeman. Oh, the best. And it was really, really fucking bad. It was the fucking worst. I think it might be my least favorite game ever. Really? Despite the voice acting being so great. Thank you. Thank you. I was about to get upset. Why were you playing it in 2020 near the end of

the earth? I thought this was like already a year that's bad enough. Why'd you go back to that? I guess I'm really adding fuel to the fire and I, um, I don't know. I, uh, well, because when it first came out, one of my friends told me that it was like literally unplayable to the point where like you couldn't even beat the game. And I was like, well, why would I even touch that? And then apparently I was like, I don't know, is that the case anymore? People were saying it is possible. So I, you know, after, I recently played through like Black Mesa with a couple friends because they finished the Zen shit

which was awesome but then yeah just decided to do a hunt down the Freeman and I lasted about three hours and shut it off we just watched the cutscenes three hours wow that's commendable there's an hour worth of cutscenes throughout the entire game too

oh that's pretty bad we got it like we got through the first 20 minutes of cutscenes by playing the game normally and then gave up and then just watch the rest of the cutscenes. Have you played Ride to Hell? No, I've heard it's hilarious, though. Yeah, that's the worst game I've ever played.

That's a piece of shit. It's almost, well, it's basically broken, so it's almost impossible to finish. We managed to. Yeah. It's funny. Yeah, it's very bad. I couldn't figure out what the fuck I was supposed to do

and hunt down the Freeman for like five levels in a row and like literally just went into whatever commands and did like no clip and flew around the level. Yeah, like the games would glitch out Like ride to hell Like the game was like I was trying to ride the bike And the controls were broken So the fucking thing just kept sliding to the side

And blowing up like it was impossible to play That's funny I bet hunt down the Freeman's like the same shit All these games are like broken They were completely unpolished My Twitch chat was telling me If I tried to quick save or save While I was in a vehicle it would corrupt my save file

So I made sure not to do that Oh my god That's awful Yeah. I've never even played it. That happened with Assassin's Creed Black Flag. The game just corrupted the save file. Like, all the work I did just fucking went away.

Alex, you say you've never even played it? No, I've never played it. Why? They didn't give me a code and I'm not buying it. That's a pretty good reason, though. It's like, come on, I voice acted in your game. You're not giving me a code. Did they pay you?

No, I conceded because on the day that it came out, and I was seeing the reaction, I messaged, the guy just saying, just don't even worry about the contract or anything. You've got enough on your plate. Oh, wow. Yeah, I went on a trip down memory lane into the, the game was kind of developed entirely through Discord, I think. Okay.

So there's just, there's a server that I'm a part of, and I went back into it to look at the messages, the chaos that was going down in that server on the day the game came out. And everyone's just, like, losing their mind. Because there were people that really put a lot of work into it, like in the background. and like uh you know because it was all segmented into like the animation team and the modelers and and so and they didn't seem to communicate so it all came down in one glorious disaster and it was quite sad actually going through those messages again yeah like i feel bad for them were there any playtesters well i don't really know what the fuck was going on because the game

director apparently works at activision now it snagged him a chill but activision everyone else got sideline there. Wow. That's hilarious. Interesting that that game could lead to a job. Yeah, you would have thought it would provide the opposite. Like blacklist him. Yeah.

Yeah. Very interesting. It shows ambition. Yeah, yeah, they tried something. It definitely tried something. Great casting. I thought you did great as an old Chinese man. but I thought it was very appropriate

With different accents, yeah Did you like Keemstar? Did you get to the Keemstar moment? Yeah, I heard Keemstar, I heard Colossal, I heard Sky Williams, rest in peace. Oh yeah, yep, yep. I heard...

See us in there. I didn't notice it was Bunty King until I was at the end credits. I don't even know which fucking character he was. I didn't even know Bunty King's in it. Yeah, like what the hell? It was just like looking through the credits. It was kind of interesting.

Why, though? Indy or not, what other game would just populate their entire cast with random YouTubers in ways that they're all recording by themselves using completely different mics? And then the audio levels in the cutscenes were like completely different. Like there would be two characters talking to each other. One would be like super loud volume. The other would be like super quiet. And then some characters, you could hear like the room echo because they recorded with like a fucking blue Yeti or something. And it's like, holy shit, it's just so inconsistent. Yeah, they should have brought you to a studio.

Yeah, none of the casting works. No, they had no money and no way to ambitious. There was just no way to make it with the chips they had. Yeah, if you have no money and you're really ambitious, why don't you make a fucking, you know, like a short game or like a teaser or like a beta? Something simple. But like trying to make something with like literally an hour's worth of fucking cutscenes. And also like putting that much time and effort into something where,

where you're literally just like piggybacking off of another more popular franchise. And you're just really fucking lucky that Valve's super nice and didn't sue you. Yeah, I'm shocked. They allowed it to be released. Like, come on. Like, you don't have the rights to use these characters. Valve just isn't a shitty company and they don't care. Yeah, and the G-man says, like Mesa.

Like, jar-jar-jad. That's very funny. It doesn't get much better than that. Yeah, what the fuck? It's so weird It's so bizarre Was it made in like the source engine? I'm fairly sure

Yeah The cutscenes were like source filmmaker Yeah Oh source filmmaker, okay Yeah Not like well done though No Those team fortress trailers are cool

And those are made in source filmmaker Mm-hmm Or at least I think so There were a couple moments where I noticed The same like Quick Zoom sort of thing That you see another source filmmaker YouTube videos

I was like, oh, I think. Oh, yes, yep. It's like a stock thing. Yeah, except it's taking itself way too seriously. Like, I never would have expected going in to hunt down the Freeman that I would see something that's like pretentious. I just thought it was like something that was low effort. I thought it was something where it's like, oh, they didn't give a shit and they had promises they didn't deliver on or something. But no, it's like, actually it thinks it's some sort of, like, like, you can hear certain lines of dialogue where it's like, holy shit, stop jerking yourself off.

Like, what are you? So weird. I think it was massively inspired by Kajima. Oh, yeah. It was like channeling Kajima's genius. In the fucking end credits, it was like special thanks, Hideo Kajima. Like, unironically, it was there. There were a couple other really funny.

Oh, yeah, Steven Spielberg. And there was like one more really funny one, but I can't remember. Oh, man. Yeah, it was really weird. Special thanks, Steven Spielberg. It was such a snowball. because yeah it was everywhere that game and just the meme of it

yeah I wonder if they thanked Valve in the special thanks because if they didn't that would be extra funny maybe I should go back and beat the game again someone for some reason gave them like 50 grand at the beginning or something like one guy could be wrong like an investor

yeah it was like one guy who I could be wrong in this bit from memory this is what is there there was like some guy who's just like a huge half-life fan put up the money to try and get the project made or something. And it all started from there. And it's just been drama from the beginning.

It goes back really far. I think it was made at the perfect time because there's no way that anyone would be excited for something like this if Valve was still making Half-Life games at the time. Yeah. It was because everybody had abandoned all hope of Valve even touching the series anymore.

So I was like, ah, fuck it. If somebody else wanted to make a Half-Life game, why not? But that hope made the blow that much worse than when people actually got their hands on it. Oopsie Yeah It was It was very sad

I'm glad you enjoyed it Yeah It was like it was also tainted by my Terrible awful fucking hangover Like I literally just felt like I wanted to vomit the entire time I had to shut it off And I'm usually not hungover It just like yeah

It makes you feel that way like anyway When you're not hungover Yeah It's only 10 bucks Here Yeah Like 15 or 16 in Canada Yeah I'm just looking on steam

mostly negative. Reese reviews mixed. Can't believe it's still that much. Yeah. I wonder what the speed run is. Impossible. I look that early. It's too broken.

Well, the walkthrough was only like four hours or some shit. I don't know. Oh, okay. Maybe they've patched it. Yeah. I don't know. I think most of that is just not knowing where to go. Okay.

Puzzles that pat out, everything. Jesus, crap. Let's see. Speed run world record An hour and 12 minutes Okay So it's still pretty meat to Some stuff you can't skip

Oh hour and six actually That was the old world record But nobody's watching this shit Okay 339 views Two months ago But Damn

Yeah nobody really Is that passionate about Hudden the Freeman speed road Who would have thought Imagine Because like if you're a speed runner You have to be doing that All day every day

To get your fucking best time Imagine being the guy spending your life playing Hunt Down the Freeman repeatedly Holy shit dude There's a lot of reviews You need a medal Oh my God

Got lost and had to use walkthroughs Every so often The entirety of chapter two is And then it's censored I assume they said like shit or something I had to use no clip to get through the first part of chapter two Because the map is shit Giant with no sense of direction

Yeah The script was hilarious. I remember when I was first sent it, it was just impossible to read pretty much. It was completely broken English. And it was only like part of it. It never got like, AI generated.

It almost seemed that way, yeah. Yeah, it was very sporadic. It's probably the first draft. Yeah, I got it like towards the end. I'd already been recording my audio clips for like probably a year, like just randomly. And then I finally got the script towards the end of, like, like what was supposed to be the whole story but I read through the whole thing but I couldn't

I couldn't really figure out what was going on to be honest yeah I couldn't really understand what the fuck was going on let me spoil the game of things I did understand so the guy with the fucking scars all over his face the main character rice pirate Mitchell or whatever his name is he got those scars from somebody in an HV suit that like beat him up once and it was like oh no he's like scratched up his face with a crowbar and he's like I'm gonna hunt down the Freeman because I guess he thought that that was Gordon Freeman

and then the twist at the end is that it wasn't he take like it shows the guy beating him up again just like different angle and then he like removes his helmet and it's like some other random character that doesn't really fucking you know just some other dude that we've seen in the game that I don't really remember much about

but it was another guy he's like you it wasn't the Freeman it was you and then there's yeah this fucking chase scene on a boat and he just like shoots him in the gut a few times and I remember that but who boy I don't know why the G man talks to the main character at all I don't I don't understand how that makes any sense but that happens like the G man shows up and just delivers exposition which is really weird he's supposed to kind of like vague not really yeah and like also I don't know yeah it didn't really seem like it fit with the spirit of how

Half-life, not only that, but like the internal dialogue of the character that you're playing as. Like, he would say things while you're playing sometimes. It's kind of annoying. There was like a parkour mechanic that I don't know if it was ever necessary to use, really. It was just something they put into the game and then there was no real opportunity to use it, I guess. I don't know. I only played through the first half, I think, so. Well, you go further than me.

I'll play it one day. Yeah. I'll play right to hell Retribution one day. Mike All right Definitely And I'm giving this one A one out of ten

It was cancer I'll give it three I can't believe you haven't played it Alex Somebody needs to gift I will gift you that game on Steve If you don't want to pay for it I'll gladly pay for it for you Okay

I can do that if you're on Merry Christmas Yeah I give your performance A nine out of ten Alex Oh cheers So we

we all saw a film because there's nothing out right now we went and did a classic movie that wasn't, you know, we have the usual recommendations for the podcast, we threw in another one because everything that's coming out is coming out between now and the next episode and not before this one. So we decided to revisit the nightmare before Christmas. Yeah, classic.

Not directed by Tim Burton, but it's Tim Burton's produced it and he produced it yeah he's a big part of it was it Peter Sellers let me look this up Peter Selig Henry Selick God I always forget that fucking name thank you god damn everyone does unfortunately everyone sadly attributes Tim Burton like this yeah yeah and I mean like it's not like he didn't do anything for it Henry Selleck directed the film yeah yeah and directing a movie like this must be so difficult I think I think it might also just be down to Tim Burton having these ideas and wanting to get them communicated and, you know, having a lot to do with it, but him not being as experienced in stop motion or something, like that might have been...

It feels like a Tim Burton movie in tone. Like, it feels like Edwards is our hands or something like that. He wrote a poem called The Nightmare for Christmas, I think. Okay. Based on... He was like in a shop and he saw that the, all the Halloween toys were being replaced with Christmas toys and the juxtaposition kind of inspired him to create the poem. And from there it developed into the full story

And then I guess Henry Selick kind of developed it Into the full movie that it is today Yeah And all the characters The art direction was basically Make this movie look like a Tim Burton movie I'm pretty sure is what Henry Selick was going for Yeah

Yeah Tim Burton has a love of his stop motion too He directed Frank and Weaney Which is stop motion And then he has one of his first movies Vincent Which is like a stop motion thing Yeah

Didn't you do corpse bride as well even if he hasn't always directed, yeah, corpse ride. Did he direct that? I don't know, but it also had his name on the title. Yeah, that's like another one. He clearly has a love for animation and stop motion. Yeah, let's see. Yeah, Tim Burton did direct it with Mike Johnson.

Mike Johnson. Mike Johnson. I know, right? Oh, apparently he was on the animation department for Anomelisa. Very nice, and also worked on Night before Christmas. Anyway What did you think of this Fucking piece of shit It was terrible

It was awful It was on Disney Plus First of all Just get stuck on your head Just drive you mental Oh yeah You still have Disney Plus That's how I watched it

Yeah And you can No other way to do it No other way I mean the film is Is great Despite that All those things

First of all the music Which we were humming Before it even started Oh yeah start recording. It's perfect. Yeah, the music is wonderful and very memorable. I had one of the songs stuck in my head when I woke up today.

And I didn't even watch. I watched it like a week ago. I watched it on Halloween. Yeah. There's not a bad song. Yeah. I hadn't seen it for probably at least, I don't know, somewhere close to like 10 years maybe. I don't know.

I haven't seen it for a while. Yeah, I was the same. Great opening song. Great every song. Great every song. Yeah, great every song. There's not a low point. Exactly.

There isn't every song. Everyone is just as creative as the last and just as earwormy as the last. From the same composer as The Simpsons theme, Danny Elfman, who also voiced Jack Skellington, which is pretty cool. He did. When he's singing, right? Yeah, no, he literally does the voice acting too, I think. There's only one credit for, yeah, let me just double check this. Oh, wait, no, it is.

Siranson does Jack Skellington, but it's the singing voice. Yeah, I think they cast him because it just sounds like Danny Elfman's singing voice. Oh, shit, it is two people. when he speaks. Damn it. Oh, it sounded like one person in the movie, yeah. It's pretty seamless in the movie. Yeah.

It's very well done. It's completely seamless. Yeah. All of the songs. Super memorable, super catchy. And the visuals that go with them, it's like very perfect for a musical, really. Yeah.

It's got like a really great sense of style. And the way that these sets are used and the way that the animation is medium is used. It doesn't really waste anything. It's like it's clear why this is an animated film rather than being live action. It's clear that there is a lot of effort put into these crazy ideas and like the mountain that like uncurls as he's walking down. Yeah, just like a shit ton of amazing character design and art design and color and lighting choices even. I like the choice of having the kind of different worlds. The subtle world building in the movie is really good. The tree trunks with all the different holidays in them and each like

holiday destination and each major location in the movie has a completely different kind of style and color palette. They really contrast against each other. Yeah. Yeah. It is just so visually striking. I mean, I was obsessed with Tim Burton in this movie specifically when I was like a little kid. I know every single beat, every piece of imagery, every beat on the score. It was ingrained in there. It came back and washed over. Oh, yeah. And it was like a joy to watch again because it's so short as well.

It just flies by. There's no filler, guff or trash in it, like, a lot of these, you know, these kind of Christmas. I kept thinking about the Grinch, illuminations, the Grinch from a couple years ago and how it's based on, like, a really stylish bit of source material. and there's like a lot of Dr. Zeus kind of in Tim Burton's like, you know, art style in my opinion. Yeah, sure. What's lacking is any kind of, you know, like original ideas or original flair in like these, you know, like the Grinch or some shit like that, whereas here, there is such an original little idea with all the kind of stuff you'd hope for and recognize with all the, you said the character designs already, but they are so classic. silhouettes of them all, they're all so striking and memorable. And some of them even have like funny little, you know, like the two-faced guy with the little, you know, little sly politicians and stuff like.

There's just lots of clever little details like that. Yeah. Yeah, it's a beautiful like a movie. And the animation is so intricate. The amount of frames, I think it took three years or something to animate, 100 people animating. And it really shows some of the stuff they do, some of their little techniques, like that scene where Jack Jack is cutting up the paper to make a snowflake. That seemed to me just like the animator's flexing.

Let's just come up with the most complex visual thing we can try and achieve and stop motion. And I was just blown away with some of the choices with stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah, it's got a really great energy throughout. And I also watched this movie a lot when I was a kid. I don't know how many times. I've seen it like at least 20 times for sure. Oh, yeah.

This was definitely a go-to movie. I had the VHS, man. I just popped that shit in. Did you have the soundtrack? I don't think I had the soundtrack individually, but I, you know, soundtracks in the movie. I had the movies. Yeah. And only $18 million budget.

Maybe adjusted for inflation because it's 19-19-93. Yeah, wow. It has a timeless quality to it, too. Mm-hmm. It doesn't feel that. But yeah, that's pretty small. It made a lot of money, which, of course, that's a good thing. And yeah, it's just a wholly original story.

Yeah, and it's weird because, like, you'd think a movie like this, with Disney being attached to it that makes a lot of money, you'd think that it would get a sequel or something. Like, you'd think that that would be something. I was reading about that. Yeah? Apparently, they wanted to do it. Oh.

But not in stop motion and in, like, CG animation. And Tim Burton turned it down. What year? Because he was like, no, no, no. In CG animation? It might not have been CG. It might have been... Maybe...

They were starting to toy around with that kind of stuff in the late 90s, weren't they? Yeah. Yeah, it existed. It'll happen eventually. A sequel wouldn't be great, probably. I don't know.

No, they were just to a live-action version. That's what they'll do. Yeah. John Fevereaux. Live-A-Wing. And it would be two hours long instead of an hour and 16. Yeah, yeah.

A realistic skeleton. They'll give Sally like eight more songs and... Yeah, it is a weirdly dark for what you would expect Disney to associate themselves with as a brand. Absolutely. I kept thinking the same thing. Which is part of why it feels so original is because they probably wouldn't want to touch anything like this before this point. You know, I guess Tim Burton had a decent, amount of a name recognition before this point?

Yeah, I think that's the only way it got made was on Tim Burton's back, to be honest. Yeah, because I was just like thinking about some of the songs in the one with the three kiddies are singing about like chopping bodies up and stuff. Like, can you really imagine that getting through? I know, right? Tim Burton's name behind it because he's got a bit of a name for like Beatle Juice and the Batman movie with the edgy kind of gothic stuff,

Edwards's hands. I think he already had that kind of rep by now, so they just trusted him with it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he had a bunch of hits in a row. Holy shit. I'm just looking right now. Didn't even realize he directed peewee. Oh, yeah.

That's one of his best movies. Hewee's big adventure. Yeah. That's funny. Is like Corpse Bride a Disney film? I don't think so. It might be actually. Yeah, because even that has like corpse in the title.

That's Warner Brothers. Yeah. Oh, okay, that's Warner Bros. It has similar vibes. Even in this movie, like Sally's like, a dead body with like a bunch of stitches yeah it looks like a it's freaky looking yeah

they'd be like that scares kids now you can't do that I don't know I think that there's enough charm to nightmare before Christmas like yeah they're scary looking characters kids just like menions now that's it yeah I always found the human characters scarier than anything in the nightmare

yeah that's true actually yeah the little kids are creepy than exactly what you are. Santa Claus looks kind of freaky looking. Yeah, yeah. And the life actual, I'll just be some actor. We'll get Josh Gaddon.

Yeah. Yeah, I do love how quick it is. It's very simple but well communicated for like the goals of like the characters and what's what's happening. Like it's not difficult to understand in any way and it's like it doesn't get overly complex. It doesn't need to be. There's, you know. I'm just trying to imagine what John Fevereaux would do to it today if he had the opportunity.

The three little kiddies will have their Disney Plus, like, spin-off show. Oh, yeah. Oh, no. Yeah, it's like they're just talking about murdering people. There's a song about murdering Santa. Yeah. Yeah, it is, that does give it character, though. It is fitting for the Halloween town to be.

be edgy and dark it is perfect and it's actually really funny in that way too i think that adds to humor a lot yeah yeah because they keep miss they've never seen christmas so they keep mistaking things like they don't they don't hear santa claus they hear sandy claws because from there like i love that halfway on words yeah it's so funny yeah and it's like they didn't even have to again like very simple and well communicated like it's it's obvious even without subtitles what he's saying not because of just like how he enunciates it, but in the song, he holds his fingers up and does the like,

you know, individually moving each, like, like, Klaus sort of thing. And it's like, it's so effectively communicated that at no point do they have to be like,

oh, get it? Like, that's what John Favreau would do today. But the movie doesn't have to do that. And I like that it's just so simple and effective. Like, that's something I understood as a kid too. I didn't need any kind of help with that.

Mm-hmm. Just everything visual, all the storyboarding and everything. It's so flawlessly done. I saw some people considering it part of the Disney Renaissance, and I suppose it did kind of come out around that time. I guess so. Yeah, it's just an unusual kind of animation style for Disney to adopt because you just would not expect them to deal with this kind of thing

if Tim Burton was not involved. I just can't imagine this project being made without him. I want to know where it is in, because this is, is this, I'd imagine this was probably a pretty breakout film for stop motion as a genre. Well, it takes the, it takes the inherent creepiness and kind of gives it, you know, it makes a bit cuter, a bit more relatable. Because that is one thing stop motion always has to overcome. It's like the inherent creepiness.

And it just works really well for a children's stories set in a Halloween town. Mm-hmm. It was animated, well, it was made by Skellington Productions. That's pretty funny. and they've been around for like since 1986 they were like making movies with Tim Burton and Henry Salick but they went to Fonk yeah 1996 so they're gone now

I just remember having such a visceral reaction to this movie as a kid certain characters in particular that that like doctor guy who opens his head and he's got his brain for some reason as a kid that really just struck a nerve with me with him like scratching his brain and making his weird like sex dolls or whatever he's Yeah, I guess so.

That is creepy. I like the way his lip twitches at the end of that scene when he's really mad. It's like that nice little animation thing. I read this like awful thing where apparently in the early versions of the story, Oggy Buggy was going to be revealed to be that scientist guy, like underneath. That would have been weird. I do like the ultraviolet, like fluorescent shit going on in the Obybogie song. Yeah, because you commented on how.

low the budget is and I think it's just really really effective use of just art direction and storyboarding because a lot of it is if you break it down kind of symbol in imagery but they just use colors and lighting and everything so well and the framing of it. Mm-hmm. That it's just really efficient. Yeah, it makes it feel epic. Yeah, yeah. No, it does have that scope.

It is very epic. It's like a fucking army attacking him at the end. Yeah, I've forgotten about the cannons like shooting him out of the skull. It is so bizarre. when I got to that point watching it it was like oh yeah

this did happen it's like he's literally they've got the entire like army trying to shoot him down out of the sky and he just doesn't even

realize that anybody doesn't like him he's like oh stop your celebrations I'll just go a bit higher like I know you love me right now but this is dangerous

oh they're trying to hit me that's funny there's a playful innocence to the entire thing yeah no it's just Jack Skellington's kind of whole journey. It's just a nice message of, you know, to embrace who you are and don't try to pretend

to be something that you're not. Grass is greener on the other side sort of thing. Yeah. And it's like, it doesn't need to be complicated or over explained. It's literally just like, oh, through another song, he's like, you know what? I did my best. And, uh, I like being the fucking pumpkin game. And that's all you need.

Yeah, it's like it's his own journey and transformation going on inside his own head of just acceptance and it works out well and it doesn't need anything more. Do you find Jack Skellington's kind of resonance in Polk Culture to be interesting? This character is just really connected with certain people for whatever reason. Yeah. The merch and everything and Hot Topic and it's just that kind of look like really goes with it. There's a lot of Jack Skellington shirts. He's got a good design. It's a really good design.

I made a Jack Skellington Halloween costume, and that was the only time I ever put effort into a Halloween costume, and I, like, sewed together, like, his suit, basically, and I did a paper mache head, and I was, like, super, super fucking skinny at the time, too, so it worked. And I had these, like, skeleton gloves. It was awesome.

Mm-hmm. Bam. You got any pictures? I do. Let me send you one. Hold on. I need to see this. Yeah, it's different for Disney, too.

He's not, like, cutesy, but, you know, he has big eyes, so he's very, like, inviting, nice-looking. Yeah. But at the same time, he also kind of has that, that almost the Disney princess thing, you know, where he's, like, singing his wants and dreams and... Yeah. He's very, like, sentimental. Yeah, yeah. He's a big baby. There's a picture.

Holy. How are you drinking? What are you drinking? That's a beer. Jesus. There's like a hole in it. Oh, and you just got like a... That's awesome.

Yeah. That's kind of scary looking. Yeah, it was the first time I ever put any effort into a Halloween costume and probably the last also. Because I got like, I got like fired from my job at HMV like a week before Halloween. I was like, fuck it. I've got time now. I was late too many times Oh, here's another one

I was on my last morning I'm like okay I got this I'll make sure to leave Half an hour early But then there was a huge snowstorm And public transit was like super late And despite me leaving early I still showed up late And they were like sorry I was like oh fuck

Oopsie Did you go and haunt them in the Jetskellington No outfit I'll just show up the sky what's your friend's supposed to be on the left is he Dwight? I think he was yeah he was Dwight shrewt

and then my other friend on the right was one of the Austin Powers twins like the Austin Powers 3 Fukui thing yeah simpler times That was a long time ago

Yeah, tell me about it I want to talk about that That Skellington production company Because they closed down In 1996 Because they made another movie that bombed The James and the Giant Peach Oh yeah

I didn't know that that bombed I thought that that was popular To some extent Apparently Well Disney closed them down after that So Oh weird Clearly it wasn't

Let me check the box office return on it But I remember it being considered Like a bad kind of return on it And re-selected that one too. You know, Tim Burton produced it. Maybe they just threw too much money into it for it to be reasonable. Yeah, it didn't really make its money back is the thing. Yeah, 38 million.

Wow, that's way more than nightmare. And then 28 million, it made back. Yeah, I remember that one being okay. I watched it when I was younger. Yeah. Not really as iconic. He did Coraline as well, so he clearly knows what he's doing when it comes to that was much later.

Coraline's great. yeah yeah that's a great like core movie for i'm glad he has that one because then it means i don't know i just feel bad for him the nightmare for christmas like if one of your most popular projects someone else kind of gets most of the credit for yeah it's nice that he's got coralline so at least like he'll always get that for the director and yeah like the star was situation

where the episode two and three directors like most people probably couldn't name them off the top of their head or episode 5, 6. Yeah, 5, 6. If you just put your name in front of every single project, eventually you'll become a household name. Just look at Tyler Perry, you know? Yeah. Yeah, M. Knight's got it as well.

Yeah. I filmed by M. Knight. But I like laugh when that comes up. Yeah. That's the thing. It's not. Yeah. Zach Snyders.

Yeah. Yeah, there is a few. Oh, God. Yeah The uh Did either you ever see that Robin Williams movie toys? It was in my childhood trauma I think I did actually

No I haven't Yeah Is that Henry Seleck? No no no Just parts of the This movie reminded me of that Because there are like literally just like killer toys In both of these films

It's just like Ah These parts like kind of scared me as a kid With a nightmare before Christmas Not enough to put it on my childhood trauma video, but enough that it was like, these toys are trying to kill these children right now.

Yeah, it's just right in the nightmare before Christmas with the fear stuff because it's just fascinating enough for I think a kid to be like, oh, this is creepy, but I kind of like the creepiness to this. It's not scaring me away, it's kind of making me more into it because it's just so odd.

Yeah. I liked the the lyricism in each song. Each song made sense in a way that like it got you from point A to point B at any moment in the story or like was there to add character didn't really feel like any song was a wasted time. It didn't feel like there was any fat there. Everything moves story forward. Which she thinks the strongest. My favorite is Jack's lament. That's my favorite one. I don't know if I would say the strongest because that,

I don't know, that's like a different implication, but that one's my favorite for sure. Yeah, that's my favorite too. This is Halloween. Awesome. I know it's the opening, but... Yeah, it's a great way to open the fucking movie. Yeah, it is. It's like the best song. It's like, wow, this movie's gonna be fucking awesome. I love when movies. Just get right into it, yeah.

But I think the soundtrack is good enough where it just poll 50 people and everyone's just kind of have a different one. I think it's that good. Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. And like you said, every song actually tells the story. It moves it forward. No song is just shoehorned in. for the soundtrack. Yeah. Just a pat time.

It's just like, it's a perfectly told story. It's also jam-packed with music. Like, the Lion King is considered like a musical film. But the songs in The Lion King are so much more spaced out. It's like there's like a normal movie for like 70, 80% of the movie and then some song, like 20% songs. This movie is like 65, 70% songs at least. Like most of the movie is just.

songs. There's barely any time between the songs in this film. But it works really well because the story is told through the songs. Yeah. Yeah, Danny Elfman is probably the main thing that makes it come together. I think it's kind of his ultimate

achievement in my mind. That is what you're left with. Now that I'm learning that Danny Elfman didn't do the talking jack voice, now I'm just thinking of how complex that would be. Because there's some, there's some songs where he's like talking and singing at the same time, you know?

Yeah, I've wondered about it. There's a few of those. He's like, what the heck I went and did my best sort of thing? It's like one after the other. I guess they just, I guess they just coordinated it really well. That's fucking interesting. It sounds so natural. It sounds like the same person talking and singing.

Whatever they did work very well. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Danny Elfin's probably the greatest composer to ever live. Him and John. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

A Batman theme. Simpson's theme. Yeah. Bunch of hits. I do. Well, just those are like, you know, those are pretty fucking iconic. It was so iconic, they threw it in Justice League for no reason.

They threw it in what? Justice League has the Batman. The Batman theme, they threw it in. Oh, wow. Justice League. Didn't Danny Elfman do some of the music on Justice League? Yes, he did. I think he composed the score for the whole film, actually.

And he just threw in that little music. cue, even though Ben Affleck's Batman is not connected to that. That is weird. You don't need consistency. Yeah, that point. A little homage. Figure it out as you go.

Like the script for the pent down the Freeman. Sorry, I have no criticism. It's just the movie so good. It means so much to me because I've been watching it every year for, you know, 15 years or whatever, however long. It's a great fucking movie. It is.

probably gets a 10 out 10. Yeah. It gets a 10 for me too. Yeah. It just has no fat. All the songs are perfect. It's just nothing to pick apart. There's nothing even really aged about it with, you know, the animation anyway.

It's not that weird period where they started putting like early CG stuff in or anything like that. It's just pure stop motion for the most part. There was a little bit of CG. Yeah, a little bit. There's a tiny bit. I mean, I mean, in a way that, you know, is like pulling you out with the movie and ruining it. Mm-hmm.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I pulled up my IMDB and noticed it was a 9 out of 10 and went what the fuck and changed it to a 10. So. Yeah. To me, it's such an easy five out of five. I like to think about it. Yeah. What can you even think of to bring it down?

Like, I just, it's just perfect. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's a classic for a reason. Glad I re-watched it. It won't be the last time I watch it. So. Mm-hmm.

Awesome, awesome, amazing, awesome movie. Glorious. All right, and I guess it is time to go to the actual film recommendation. We saw another movie, too, which was boring. Because it's a black and white Japanese film from 1953 called Tokyo Story. Spoilers. Directed by, yeah, spoilers for Tokyo Story. You've had plenty of time to see it, though.

It's directed by Yasujiro Ozu. I believe that's how you say his name, who's like a famous Japanese director. And I think this film's most famous for its cinematography and his style specifically. So what did you guys think of how it looked in particular? I thought that it was really well framed. It's like, it reminds me of there's a lot of recent directors that I like that, you know, lots of stationary shots and then just having really good framing and that just it gives it a sense of like professionalism in a way like it feels a bit more meticulous in that way so I definitely got

those vibes I did like the way it was shot for sure yeah absolutely the they seem to intentionally use this idea of like the frame within a frame type thing with the there's so many door frames literally framing like a lot of shots in the movie which you know it was just as you say it does make it look very professional, very slick, flows really well. Yeah. Minimalism. That was like his style. Yeah.

Which he was like... Very low angles as well. Comparing it to like Buddhism. Like the, you know, it's just very simple way of telling the story. Yeah, that makes sense actually. And that kind of made the drama. It enhanced the drama. It makes all of the filmmaking parts like less distracting.

So you're just focusing on the characters and like, you know, their interactions. And that's kind of what made this film so timeless. Like even, even when, watching it now. I was like really into what's going on and the movie looks great. A lot of low angles like on the floor. I guess because they sit down a lot. Yeah, the characters are also on the floor. Yeah, but even in shots where they're not sitting down, it's stationary. It's low angle. Yeah. Often a lot of like characters just looking right at the camera or like around the camera like head on close up. And it works. It's it's really interesting style.

I could see like how Wes Anderson is inspired by it or other directors like Ida kind of like that. Yeah. I'm just wondering like because I haven't seen a whole lot of older films. I'm just wondering how to like contextualize this in terms of the overall picture of older films. So this is from 53. It's a Japanese movie. I'm just wondering like in terms of this style of filmmaking and it's minimalist and you know, good framing.

It's not really like the first to do it. No, it's one of the most, it's one of his, well, first of all, it's like his trademark style, this director in particular. All of his movies are just like refined it. Yeah, this is like a refined example. This is considered one of his best films.

Okay. And it shows, I mean, it's very effective, the movie and very kind of delicate and relatable. The way they explore the family and they just over time, develop them and just give them more and more texture and by the end you're kind of really with the grandparents and through the the sadness of it all because it is kind of a story of it's a very sad

movie yeah it's it's just the story of how to not going to get caught up because there's this ongoing thing with the dialogue everyone's saying oh you're too busy to deal with me you don't you're always busy you got stuff to do all the time and it is uh it's just an observation of you know busy people and forgetting about those important to them and how easy that is to do in the kind of mad rush that is alive and how sad that can be. When it is these large families, you wouldn't expect to kind of splinter apart and not be, and not come together when they need to. And the sadness of that is quite striking towards the end,

the way they kind of pull the rug out. Yeah. The daughter was also just like a massive bitch the entire movie. Yeah, she was horrible. Yeah, the only one who's like nice to the grandparents is the wife of the son that died in World War II. Yeah, stepdaughter, died in World War II. There was that whole, like, World War II subtext going on, just like the last movie we saw.

Yeah. The Fireflies. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it is a very interesting setting. Or the Pacific War, it's called. Okay. Yeah, I just like the idea of focusing on the older generation, the grandparents specifically,

that have lived a life and they have a whole history to them. And seeing their perspective instead of the kind of youthful perspective, is interesting because everyone's going to be there at some point and that's part of what the film is about is everyone kind of forgetting about old people and not treating them the same way you might be a younger person when in fact everyone's going to be there i'm just trying to again for like contextualizing what i guess i guess you guys might not know the answer to this too but like i always assumed that like japanese culture elders were respected and appreciated you know you say like sometimes people just forget about like older people but this this this seems like kind of like a very different story than what

would be a traditional or like standard Japanese household or anything right well yeah i'm wondering if it's more because it post world war two the kind of business boom and the the way it was encouraged to you know succeed and you know yeah in that kind of way that maybe the family values weren't being as addressed in the same way and the director was trying to talk about that? I'm not sure. Yeah, because like, I never really cut that the, especially the daughter character was ignoring them because she was like afraid of not succeeding in her business or anything like that. I just, like, it just seemed like she just didn't feel like being around them. Yeah, she was just distracted. Just making excuses, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like she could have at any moment.

And the stepdaughter literally just asked for a day off and the guy was like, fine, yeah, okay. And it was just like as easy as that. Mm-hmm. So. Yeah. And I think that's what the film's about. Like, you should respect your elders. You should respect your parents and your grandparents.

So showing it, like, as a negative example, I think, I bet there's some conflict that families have. It's like deconstructing those family values. Like, yeah, we try to look up to our parents, but sometimes it's difficult or sometimes they don't give a shit about us or whatever. But the only character who connects with the grandparents is, I forgot our name, but it's, but it's, it's difficult. It's the stepdaughter. Her name is Noriko. Yeah, I have the family tree on my... Oh, yeah?

Yeah, Noriko. Yeah, their daughter-in-law. Yeah. Who's kind of paralyzed with her ownings? And it's because she's lonely because she has no one else in her life. So she actually... Yeah, it's the daughter-in-law. So she actually appreciates...

It's fine, it's fine. And her husband was their son who died. Yeah. It passed away. Yeah, I got that. I just use the wrong word. Yeah. But she's, yeah, she's actually, she doesn't have anyone in her life.

So she actually appreciates this bond with like these grandparents. And, you know, even though they're not related to her. Yeah. By blood. Yeah. I thought that was interesting. And also probably because they're related to her dead husband, right? Like that's a reminder of him.

And she, you know, still has his picture and she hasn't moved on and started dating anybody else. So, like, there's a logical reason why she would want to have, like, a relationship with them and spend more time with them and, like, actually cherish that. So, yeah, that's a pretty heavy scene. And then when she passes away, what's, uh, Tommy, when Tommy passes away toward the end of the film, Noriko's like, you guys didn't appreciate, she basically, like, you didn't appreciate your parents, you didn't appreciate the relationship at all.

you were just so caught up in your own lives. I was really picking up on the kind of nihilism. The movie kept kind of talking about. The drinking scene was a major moment for me where the granddad and some old buddies kind of gathered together and get pissed up. And it's kind of the first time he goes a bit deeper into his true thoughts of, you know,

what's going on. And it is a sad scene where they're talking about all their sons and all their kids, sorry, and how they consider them to be almost failures in their eyes and how kind of toxic that is. And that whole dynamic was really interesting to me. And the grandfather, he kind of acknowledges how it's a shitty thing to feel. He's not like his friend who's kind of just straight up being an asshole about his son

and being like, yeah, he's just straight up a disappointment and stuff like this. But it is a downer. in that regard, especially with at the end as well. Isn't life disappointing? Yes, nothing but disappointment. There's lots of kind of Tao stuff like that. And you can't really avoid it when talking about the subject. It is a dower subject and you're not really doing it justice if you're not going to go to those lengths.

Yeah, but there's a moral to be learned to appreciate that time enough. Yeah. Which is, you know, it's better to learn it from a film than to learn it in real life. Yeah, from real life. You can't undo something. Yeah, exactly. Can't rewind. Yeah. I really, I really, really love what this film is exploring.

I love the concept. I love the idea for the story. I do also kind of feel like, in some ways it feels like timeless, but in other ways it really doesn't. Like, I can, you know, it is a little aged. And one of the things that I would say my biggest criticisms would be with would be like the, the act. I didn't think that all of the acting was great.

Noriko, there were a few scenes, quite a lot of scenes actually, where she's smiling. But in the context of the film, there's nothing like sarcastic or cringe about the way she's smiling, but in the performance, it's like she looks like she's uncomfortable. She looks like she's disgusted by the grandparents, but I'm like, I know that's not what you're communicating based on the context of the movie and the script. But through the performance, that's what I feel is being communicated. And that was a bit distracting at points.

And, you know, in a lot of ways, not just that, but like other parts of the acting, the further back you go in time, the more the performances are going to seem like very stage performance-esque. The more that acting for film is going to look closer to acting for theater in a way. And so that is kind of distracting. And for the tone this movie is going forward. is a bit over the top. Yeah, especially for what it's going for. Because, like, I was imagining this as, like, it really reminded me of, like, a lot of modern indie films in a way that tackle something

like this type of story where it's just, you know, small scale focused on this family, you know. Yeah. And for a lot of older classic films, I would argue that remaking it, you'd be losing a lot of what the original film is. But watching this one, as much as I loved what it was, I feel like if I saw like a remake of this, given the right director,

I wouldn't like hate that there was a remake. Like I wouldn't, you know, there's a lot that you could improve in that sense, I think. I don't know. With a different style. I kind of like the fact that it's from the 50s and it still resonates and speaks, you know, for, it's still so relatable,

even though it is from such a long time ago. so many generations removed, but the messages are still as powerful. Yeah, but I mean, that's, again, me saying that one of my favorite aspects is like the story and what it was tackling and the ideas, not necessarily the film itself. As much as I do love the framing, the cinematography is great. Just film as a medium. I feel like this is most successful as a story rather than the, you know, performances.

I do have to admit, I find it difficult when a movie's in a language that I'm not familiar with, just how many of the intricacies that I'm missing out on in terms of body language and just delivery of dialogue and that kind of stuff. So I'm always a bit unsure of how to kind of tackle that kind of thing, because it's really hard to tell sometimes when it is intentional and when it's not and just all the stuff you're missing. So I remember reading someone, a Sodron Castellistner, left some comment. I mean ages ago saying like, yeah, I'm, I'm Dutch and whenever I watch movies that are in Dutch,

I find things that I specifically target that I don't like because I see all the specific details in that performances that people outside might never even pick up on. Yeah, of course. I'm thinking about them and watching it. There's a bunch of Spanish speakers that tell me that the acting in rec is actually bad, but I don't see it. It's funny. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah.

Yeah. It is a weird thing to know. Yeah. But yeah, I didn't really notice it too bad in this movie, to be honest. I thought it actually was pretty good all around in terms of that kind of stuff. I was never really pulled out of the movie from any kind of technical reason. I was really into just the, especially the dialogue and just the way the characters were being fleshed out over the time. Yeah, it's a good story. Yeah, I just love the look of it.

The look of it is really what makes it stand out. I just love watching it. Yeah, even with the subtitles off, you could just marvel at the way it looks. Yeah, the way everything's framed. Yeah. It had a pretty good score. I like the music. I also like the way that music was used at points.

Mm-hmm. Again, very minimal, too. Yeah, very low volume at some points. Mm-hmm. And despite the technical limitations of the time, it actually had pretty good sound design, I feel. Mm-hmm. I feel that way, too. Mm-hmm.

A lot of sound design, like, even stalker, there was sound design that took me out of it. And this didn't have any moments like that. It was all, like, technically I thought it was pretty perfect. Yeah. There's some, like, eye lines and, like, breaking the 180. Well, I think that's intentional. Mm-hmm. Like, I think that's just a style.

Yeah. I don't know. I've never seen another one of his movies. Yeah, there's too many things that I have to eventually get to that. Yeah, I'd like to see more movies. It's just, it's impossible to put into context the greater picture of, of like, what's happening in terms of like breakthroughs of filmmaking or like what inspired what. Because I'm looking at this, I'm thinking like, okay, Stanley Kubrick directed the Pass of Glory in 1957, but that's a completely different country, right? And so I'm just like, I try to think of like the overall greater context of where the film is.

But yeah, I'm so far away from... Well, it's called Tokyo Story. So I think it's a film about Japan. Yeah. In Japan cinema, I'm like, I got to get through Kurosawa first. Yeah. I got to get through samurai movies. I got to get through Godzilla.

But now I did all that. So we could get to directors like Ozu. Also, these guys have so many films. They have so many. Yeah, I was looking at his own DVD earlier, and he's directed just a shit. Yeah. Japanese work ethic. Yeah.

The perfectionist. Well, because like, I don't know, you look at fucking Takashi Miki. He's got like over 100 movies. Literally over 100 movies. Yeah, it's ridiculous. For some reason I find it weirdly calming, though. Before they get to the really depressing stuff, I found it quite calming, just the kind of serene way they present everything, you know?

Yeah. It's homely in that way. There's also a movie called Tokyo Twilight. he directed, that might be a sequel. Or at least has a... He's seen it? No. He says Tokyo in the title.

You know? It has some of the same cast, I believe. Well, I was looking at his movie Late Spring, which is about someone in their 20s looking after their father. So he seems to be quite obsessed with this idea of like the younger generation caring for the elders and this kind of whole thing. Yeah. Passing that message along.

in his work. He does a good job. He convinces you of his side. Yeah. Yeah, I think that is an important team of the film. Yeah, no, I definitely agree. Yeah. There's also Kobayashi.

Mm-hmm. And I have not seen Harakiri yet, but I've heard it's great. Number 33 on the top 250, geez. This is on the top 250, isn't it? Tokyo Story. Yes. 178 at the moment. Yeah, I'll slowly, slowly get through older films.

I watch so many newer films. It's been so much time editing shit, too. There's too many movies. It's too much. Yeah, exactly. It's literally impossible to watch every movie because there's so many movies being made. So it's like, well, I'm trying to go forward in time

at the same time. So it's sometimes a bit difficult to go backwards in time. This is one, you kind of got to be in the mood for it. It's very slow and not plot-driven. It's not nearly as slow as the fucking Koboyashi film I watched on Halloween. Probably not. That was quite done. This didn't feel slow to me.

It doesn't really linger. I would say despite it not feeling like super slow, it did feel a bit repetitive. I feel like the entire first half of the movie was communicating one idea that was pretty clear, like pretty early into it. and it was like hammering and reinforcing that same idea of like, okay, so their actual kids don't give a shit about them. And their daughter-in-law cares about them sort of thing. And it's nice.

I'm not saying like it should have only taken like five minutes or something. It is nice that it gets developed, but it did start to feel a bit repetitive for me. I was like, I got it. I got everything. I didn't feel it was that repetitive. Yeah?

Okay. I felt like it was doing one thing for a while. There was a moment at the end where the son that was late to the grandmother's death, he was like late and said, oh, if I got the 8.30, I would have got there on time or whatever. There was one little bit of re-corporation with his line about how you can't, you know, address people once they're dead. That was, I don't know, it just didn't seem necessary to me because it didn't seem that long ago. where that scene was like established and that dialogue was already in your head that him going back to it was like yeah we we get it yeah but that's such like a nitpick yeah I don't know I feel like it could have been two hours instead of two 16 without really losing anything yeah it probably could have been but maybe I don't know what but I mean yeah if you're

looking at 50s movies the pacing is gonna be different yeah I wonder how they paced movies back then like now we have hyper-oper awareness of like the human attention span and how long people can handle a scene. Study off the study. The story structure at this point is pretty much down to a science. It's like you pretty much plug in. Yeah. Back then they took their time.

It was different and yeah. And that's why I like, you know, the rough edges. I feel like some of, maybe some of the repetitions almost the point. In the opening there's a lot of repetition of shots specifically when they enter the home. I like the layout of the house a lot and I like the way he's shot. shows that you really understand how everything is in the house and like the kitchen's this way. And then if you make a left down the hallway, that's the front door. It was like very clear what was going on.

Yeah, it feels like a small location. And some films, you know, it's just a bunch of close-ups of shit. And you're just like, what's going on? And the space was very clear. Yeah. There's a lot of like verticality and a lot of hallways and just like blockiness that was very satisfying like straight edges the movie's very satisfying to watch symmetrical because everything's so well framed yeah it's very symmetrical reminded me a Kubrick almost

yeah the framing's very perfect I love the way he frames people like the the couple the grandparents like just sitting together looking at the camera like it was just yeah it was very well done all that stuff the look of the movies the best thing about it yeah I don't know I like I like the concept more than I like the look. I like the look a lot. I like the framing a lot. Yeah, it's beautiful. I like what it tries to tackle more, though. Well, I like that. It's mature. Yeah, it reminded me of Paris, Texas, that family drama, too. Very small scale about, like, the location. Yeah, and the people and just the, well, they're talking about. Their little get away in the city.

It was, at the spa was great. Yeah, the country versus suburbs thing was fun as well. It was just great locations. Dynamic. Yeah, yeah. When they were like on that, I don't know, what it was. It was like a, there's the ocean behind them and then there's like a little concrete. It was like a wall. Yeah, like a wall. And they were just walking along it. Yeah, that was beautiful. Yeah. A lot of striking stuff. Gutilized the city very well. I have no criticism really. I mean, I kind of agree with what you said about some of the acting and the dated nature of it. Yeah, but that was, that's about it. Okay. Well, you said about the watch too was like a good, or not the, yeah, whatever you said,

said Alex was a good point. The thing you just said before. I didn't think about that. But I thought this, I think this is pretty immaculate. I really enjoyed this a lot. I'd probably give it a four and a half stars if I had to give it a rating. Yeah. I'm excited to see it again at some point.

I don't know when, but it's a movie I'd like to show people. Yeah. As long as you go in knowing when it's from in the context of it, I think it's very, very enjoyable. There's so much to do. taken about it. It's a really cool part of film history. Yeah, my ultimate takeaway was this kind of idea of, you know, to not fall prey to the expectations of your parents, but at the same time, don't forget they're like flawed people, just like you, who were just as much a, like, a product of

the time as you are. It just gets you thinking, it was one of those kind of movies. There's lots of concepts being thrown around, lots of ideas of regret and mortality and family. There's just a lot to relate to a lot to think about, a lot to delve into. Yeah, there's nothing really that can chip this away from a five star for me. I really, really like this. Awesome. And I'm giving this one a seven out of ten. It's something that I'll definitely see again.

I can imagine it going up to an eight at least. Admittedly, I was actually not in a really good mood when I watched it. Yeah, I don't want to get it to it. It's not a mood lifted. But, yeah, there's, there's, uh, There's a lot that I did enjoy about it Despite, you know, it feeling Dated in negative ways at points, but

Yeah, really great overall I might raise the rating on another watch Yeah, but yeah Yeah, it's cool shit That I'll definitely see again and I could have met I imagine myself probably enjoying it more the next time Yeah, awesome Good job, Ozu

Yeah, thank you He did write the film along with, I think, someone else Yeah Kogo Noda Mm-hmm Let's see if I'm saying the name wrong. I probably am. What?

Ozu? I think I'm saying it correctly. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, nothing too wrong with it. Yeah. You never know. They said Ong wrong in the last Airbender movie. Yeah, exactly.

Ong. That's a pretty simple name. They say Zazu wrong in the Lion King 2019. Oh, really? What do they say? They say Zazu. Yeah. And so there's two actors that say Zazu correctly and everybody else says Zazu. And the two that say it correctly were the only two that were a part of previous productions of the Lion King that had nothing to do with John Favreau.

So Shahadi Wright-Joseph, who was in the stage production Broadway thing, and James Earl Jones, who was in the original film. They say it correctly. Everybody else, whose first experience with the Lion King is John Favreau manages to say it wrong. I wonder why. Completely wrong. Yeah. Wow. Zazu. Isn't John Oliver just making fun of it at this point? I'm pretty sure I saw a clip of him just making fun of it.

Yeah. It's funny. Yeah. And frustrating. Good observation. Yeah. I've been working at it too long. I want to be done with this piece of shit.

Anyway, question time. Let's do some questions from the Sardonicast community then. If you want to leave your own questions, head over to the Sardonicrust, subreddit, and go into the suggestion thread and ask us whatever you feel like. Like, GGG-375 is going to start us off this time. Is it wrong for people to give so much credit to directors when filmmaking is such a collaborative process? Do you think people being so focused on directors when discussing a film undermines others' work on the film, like set designers, concept artists, etc? I don't think that it inherently undermines other people's work, because at the end of the day, if your name is on it as the director, like, you are responsible for.

for these, like, if you want to pass off blame onto somebody else and be like, oh, this set designers, a piece of shit, they didn't even do what I wanted. Like, you can do that, but, like, you approve what's happening in the film as a director unless there's, like, a huge producer or studio interference and money deciding that things should be a certain way that you didn't actually want. But, yeah, I think it makes sense to give the most credit to a director on a project. It seems to level out in terms of the director that gets all the credit or all the blame. Exactly.

Double-edged sword. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. And it's an industry. People are getting paid. If they do good work, they'll get on another gig. And I think that's what they're more worried about than like, you know, their work being undermined. Like, I don't know.

I don't think it undermines their work at all. I think they do great work. The director can decide to work with talented people in any one of these fields. You know, like a director might be able to. like, I want, I want to work with Trent Resner and Atticus Russ for the soundtrack. And the soundtrack will still get properly praised in that way for like something like the social network. But you can also still, you know, it's still the movie of the director, right?

It's still a David Fincher movie. I think we're attributing credit correctly. Yeah. You're all wrong. We're right. Sorry. It's just a product of any kind of artistic product that is a result. of so many people coming together and working together.

It's just so complicated. That's what the credits are for, I suppose, if you're looking to credit every single person. But when we're just talking about movies, it is easier to kind of condense it into the figurehead, which is often the director. Mm-hmm. And then Neil Breen just does all the other jobs anyway,

so you can only really credit one person. Yeah, then there's the all-tors like him. Yeah. There's only one person in the credits. He's like the soul. I would just call him a... filmmaker. He's the sole filmmaker of those movies. You can't really call him like a writer, director, editor, costume designer, lighter,

gaffer. It reminds me of like when you first discover Windows movie maker and you'd like credit yourself as every role at the end. Uh-huh. Yeah. It's pretty funny. Pigeonslayer 666 has one for us. I recently watched Monty Python in the Holy Grail and as I watched it, I kept thinking how much worse the movie would have been with a bigger budget, has the low budget forced them to come up with some very creative solutions? Are there any movies you think benefited from a low budget, or perhaps the other way round, any high budget movies you think had too big a budget for their own good?

Hmm. That's a good question. Like, trauma shit. Like Black Dynamite, uh, yeah, Black Dynamite's a low budget movie, but that was made intentionally, um, kind of poorly. But it was also a low budget. it fit that one really well. Escape from tomorrow is an obvious one.

Like Evil Dead too? Yeah. Evil Dead. Yeah, the Evil Dead movies for sure. I think the story behind the film's production is as important or even more important actually than the film itself, like the story that the movie is trying to tell. What else? Like there's plenty of movies that have low budget and that's like a part of its charm.

I'm just trying to think like that other side of the question of like, what movie has too big of a budget for its own good. It's like, how do you even... Daddy's Home 2? Oh, yeah, like any Adam Sandler comedy or some shit. Or it's like sometimes it's like the fact that it is so produced just adds to how disgusting it is. No, I've got one.

Do you remember that Robin Hood movie from 2018? Oh, God. I remember of it. I never saw it. It had Electro and a 100 million dollar budget. Oh, yeah. That Electro. It's just like that that budget's just not helping that project in any way

Yeah That's just like a flop It's just like money burning Ben-Hur Yeah They remade that Yeah Ben-Hur and like cats as well Cats oh yeah

Yeah that's a good one If cats didn't have the money for all that shitty CG Then they might have had to use actual costumes If it was a $20 million stop motion movie Like Nightmare Before Christmas It probably would have been better It would have been much better Or like yeah

animate the whole thing then why don't you yeah the freaky live action like yeah yeah what's the point of it being live action anymore if you're gonna animate everything but their faces like the whole movie's animation almost yeah like I'm pretty sure most illumination movies are under that price so it probably could have got it done I think the answer to that question is because you can see the celebrities face and they had a lot of celebrities in the movie fucking Taylor Swift and shit yeah true that was like their whole plan. Taylor Swift wanted an Oscar. Yeah. She wanted to perform at the Oscars. That song she wrote for cats.

You know, that's what she wanted. Miao. Yeah, I still haven't seen it. I'm too scared to watch it. Oh yeah, they did go to cats. Yeah. Apparently, to learn how to be cats. It's fucking stupid. Tom Hooper, everybody. Oh, man. You really don't have to see it.

You can just look at screenshots. of, you know, get nightmares from that. People have clipped the most disturbing parts from it already. Yeah. Most of the movie is just kind of fucking boring. Some of the music's good. But that's how bad the movie is that you could take a screenshot from any point and it like freaks people out.

Yeah. It's because the animation's freaky looking. Yeah, it is really funny that like... It's just a bad choice. The trailer came out and everybody's like, oh God. Mm-hmm. That's a perfect case of just because you can doesn't mean you should. Exactly.

Just because you can animate all those CGI cats. I mean, you should make that whole movie. It's kind of disturbing. It's shocking, yeah. And people learn their lessons. I don't think they'll do that again. That amount of money. Yeah, it's crazy.

That's another example of blaming the director, really. Because, like, the individual animators probably did not want to do that. They're just hired to do that, you know? They're just doing their jobs. Yeah. Apparently, he overworked them. Well, he made up things like cat school. He thought that was a good idea.

Who do you blame for that? Blame Tom. Gotta blame Tom. At the end, I just blame the film. Just as a piece of art, it did not do it for me. I don't need to attack, like, individual people. I'm sure Tom Hooper cared a lot about his cat's movie, because he was clearly editing it till the day it premiered.

He was literally, like, scrambling to finish it, the night. They fucking patched it. Yeah. They literally patched it when I was in theaters. I'm convinced the Blu-ray release is completely different than... Yeah, is there any way to find that original version? Would there even be any way? I'm sure it's somewhere.

I'm sure there's like a cam. Maybe there's like some cam of it somewhere. Yeah. The trailer's very different. I did watch it in theaters, so I did see that version. Oh, you saw it, yeah. You saw the pure. Yeah, opening a day.

Oh, I saw on Blu-ray. Yeah. Blu-ray. It was definitely a film. Mm-hmm. I'll stand the test of time. I hate myself and want to die. That's their Reddit name.

What are your thoughts on the people who don't like Charlie Kaufman's work because they think the characters are pathetic or privileged? I thought his characters were supposed to be flawed because they were a reflection of both Kaufman and the audience. This reminds me of those Ask Reddit threads where it's like, hey, people who did do this annoying thing, why do you do that? And the answer is like already in the question.

It's like, okay, well, I mean, you probably expect. expect all of us to agree with you. Sorry, no offense, I want to kill myself or whatever your name is. I hate myself and want to die. Yeah. Sorry, no offense. I'm not trying to put you down, but so you're kind of answering the question within the question, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's kind of the whole I mean, yeah, if somebody wants to have their own interpretation of a film that doesn't offend me at all, but yeah, I agree that his characters are supposed to be flied. Yeah, it's, it's, like, funny to make fun of the like tropes that certain writers like tend to use like the self-deprecating main characters and stuff but at the end of the day is it's intentional it's he he's going for a

certain thing and yeah he's got his own style there he seems to be doing it very very well yeah would would you say there's like kaufman imitators because i don't know if i could point one out really seems like he's doing his own thing for the most part No, because his movies don't make money So no one wants to copy Yeah, that's what I was thinking Yeah, it's too creative and weird To mimic it would

Like kind of defeat the whole point And just be so on the nose and obvious Mm-hmm, yeah These films are so different too They're all weird That's about the only connecting thread I would say Spike Jones's her reminded me of Kaufman

that if you told me Kaufman wrote it and Spike Jones didn't, I would be like, okay, and I wouldn't question it. Yeah, there is shared DNA there, though, isn't there? Yeah, they worked together. I'm sure Spike Jones inspired Kaufman's directing as much as Kaufman's writing inspired Spike Jones writing. Quentin Tarantitties says, do you think there will ever be a point in time where VFX become indistinguishable to real life, or do you think that audience's eyes will always adapt to and notice it? Yes, it will happen eventually.

Maybe a long time from that. I would argue that some of the best of the effects are already that way and you've just never noticed it. Yeah, exactly. That's actually not a bad point. But I guess the question might apply to... Because when you make effects that look real in current day, it has to be under certain conditions and certain things, right?

So, like, textures, we're really good at textures now. You know, you can make a helicopter in the sky that looks like a real helicopter. You can make fire really well now. But you can't just do anything. There's certain things that, like, making a completely computer-generated human, it's like, something's off about their eyes still. Yeah. I'm looking at you, Polar Express.

My brains are too good. I know, I know. Yeah. Yeah, Polar Express is so creepy. It's got much better. But if it keeps getting better over time, eventually we will get to a point where it's indistinguishable. Yeah, and then we have to question whether or not we're already in a simulation.

Yeah. Yeah, it's already a problem. It's like an Elon Musk conversation, yeah. Yeah. These deep fakes and everything is scary technology. Oh, deep fakes are great. Did you see the fucking new Trey Parker Matt Stone thing? Yes.

I haven't watched it, but I've seen about it. It's funny. Oh, it's so hilarious. It's on YouTube and it's called, what the fuck is it called? It's a great idea. Sassy Justice. And it's on YouTube And it's so funny

I loved it I think they might I don't know if they're turning this into a series I wouldn't be surprised But yeah right now How good is deepfakes They're funny One episode

The deep fakes are pretty fucking good in the show Apparently they like They have like a deep fake studio That they made for this Or something Imagine having that Southpub money Well I saw the like the title of an article And didn't click on it

So you can never tell what's true, but I guess that's almost kind of the point of the show, too. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. It's so funny. I'm excited for that point where we can, like, animate a movie like Tokyo Story, like, entirely in a computer. Yeah, you're not a bit scared of that kind of thing. So I was thinking about this. Like, when a movie's going to be just, like, on set, it's like just a bunch of drones flying cameras around and just perfecting.

It's going to get to that point. Yeah. There's already cameras that are like, you don't have to adjust the focus or the exercise. exposure or anything. It just fucking scans the room. I suppose it will just... Do all that in post. Yeah. It might level the playing field a little bit. If everyone can make movies of quality that high,

then it will just become about the stories. Yeah, imagine you can make movies like Tenet in your computer. You can do anything. Yeah. Just do it. A perfect cinematography with your little drone you buy from the supermarket. Kind of like a source filmmaker like thing. Yeah.

Just do it in VR like the Lion King. Super realistic, yeah. I mean, the Lion King is kind of. that they animate it's obviously hundreds of millions of dollars but yeah they animate these fully rendered 3d environments in a computer looks really good yeah no because on the on the mandolarian they do it they like made this dome that's just like got a big screen in the background so they can basically use it the way you would a green screen but it has all the lighting and everything like reflecting off the armor and stuff it's some crazy stuff you can do a technology now yeah

right now it's just too expensive and it's probably too big yeah you have to keep it in a warehouse or something. Yeah, but there will get like a phone, you know, how you can just keep a phone like in your pocket now. It will get to a point where it's so easy to do those things. You can make a movie like, at least like Lion King on your computer. Getting humans, like doing a drama with humans and like in your computer, that would probably be very hard. Maybe like a hundred years away from that kind of shit. But I mean, I can kind of imagine it happening. I bet no one wants to watch that shit either. Part of the problem is that to make something

convincing enough to be indistinguishable from reality there would have to be so many factors that you would have to consider like there would be things about like the audio that you'd have you know like the difference between someone talking into a microphone versus like the microphone

being in the room like something that was accounted for and you know fantastic Mr. Fox they just had people like in the environments running around with you know they filmed it like a movie basically or they recorded the audio like a movie instead of just actors in a booth stuff like that or

I don't know like the way the camera moves or like the focus I'm not saying that it's impossible for all of these things to be considered at one point in the future but I think that it's pretty likely that even if the technology is there I just don't expect that even great directors will all

account for every factor you know I think that there's so many factors to consider that, you know, just the human mind It's not Not likely to catch every single thing Yeah Yeah, and it's also about the implementation too Like I keep thinking about how bad these like new Jurassic Park films look

How like cartoonly and ridiculous they look Then you go back to the 90s one And the CG in that movie looks better than the ones coming out now And I'm thinking what's what's gone wrong there It's decades apart. Yeah, they just... One's well thought out, yeah. One's well thought out, yeah.

Yeah. Dinosaurs are kind of in broad daylight. Mm-hmm. There's hundreds of them running down a mountain while it explodes. It's just ridiculous. Well, they're in a fucking hamster ball. Yeah. Yeah.

There's no... So I mean, like, they have that technology and they do too much with it to where your brain's like, this is completely unrealistic and silly. It's the wrong philosophy. Yeah, it's the wrong... They're doing too much. Mm-hmm. But I feel like people will take that and just kind of...

scale it down like yeah let's just use it to make a drama or something we're like real people in a mocap studio and then everything else is cg i and it's just a drama and people probably do that and it'll probably be interesting is that tried and true george lucas quote with him saying about you know special effects or whatever it's supposed to be a tool he's a groundbreaking filmmaker yeah yeah he wasn't quite there but he kind of i guess he kind of saw that yeah he described the philosophy, at least. Goosey McGooseface, too, has one. Do you gentlemen consider it viable for films to leave in footage of people,

whether actors or stunt people, genuinely being injured, is it exploitative, or is it justified in that it provides the effect needed, such as Tom Cruise breaking his ankle in Mission Impossible Fallout, or the stuntman who broke his leg, cartwheeling from a car crash in Mad Max 2? That's a famous one. Yeah. If the stuntman approves, or the stuntman approves? woman approves, then I think it's great, and they should put it in the movie.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, they already approved when they signed their release form. Yeah, the only way it would be too far is if they actually, like, died in the stun. And they're like, no, this is too perfect of a shot. We have to leave this one in. That could be considered. I'm pretty sure that's happened. Oh.

Hasn't that? I mean, snuff films exist, but like, whatever you, I don't know. Like, there's probably been, like, the crow still got made, right? Didn't Brandon Lee die in that movie? still got meat right yeah he didn't die in the film i don't believe okay it was like a different take they just didn't get i never seen it whenever i think of like deaths on set i think of the oh shit what was it called the helicopter blade like decapitating that guy on um oh yeah john landa film's yeah oh is it that's why yeah it's that movie yeah okay yeah because i was gonna bring

that up i'm not quite sure what happened but yeah it was entirely preventable and wound up actually being responsible for a lot of like safety measures and uh wow you know standards that are seen for films and actors today really from that movie it was uh it was it was it was like terrible communication between uh director and the pilot and the guy doing the explosives and like supposedly this is just from memory but i'm pretty sure this is what happened was like the I believe the director wanted the explosions to be like bigger and like higher and he also wanted the helicopter to be flying lower, but he didn't communicate between those two people or tell the actors. And it was just like one of those like, yeah, it's probably good. And then, you know, because the helicopter pilot wasn't expecting these explosives, pyrotechnics to be that high or whatever, you lost control and like decapitated.

It's some dude and a little kid that were just acting. in a movie. God, it's so surreal. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I probably don't want to keep that take. No. Maybe a little disrespectful.

Yeah, I think Ralph pretty much got it with his answer, to be honest. Mm-hmm. Big C-baller has one. What's your opinion on television shows that try to tackle internet culture, the most notable example being Tosh.0? I don't think Tosh is funny. I've never seen it. I don't either.

I don't like those kind of things. It's America's Funniest Home Videos, but the Internet now. Oh, you've been framed. And it's like the commentary isn't really needed. It doesn't really add much. I've never been entertained by his commentary on the clips. It's just the clips themselves that are amusing and funny. So they add like a laugh track as well.

I don't remember. I think so, actually. Yeah. Pretty sure there's pretty sure there's a laugh track or an audience or whatever for that. show? I think so. What other shows even try to tackle internet culture? Because I mean, like, you could make that argument for like anything that references the internet at any point. Like, that's been done in a lot of shows. I usually don't like it. It usually feels forced. Yeah, I don't know where they specify television shows. Because when I think of like internet culture being integrated

into like certain movies, it can go really wrong, but it can be really right. Because like, there's a lot of internet culture in Mr. Robot, actually. which works quite well. That's true. I mean, like, if you turn on cable news today, what you will see is the news just reporting on things that are happening on the internet. Whether it's the president's tweets or any funny video or like some protest or anything, they're literally just being like, here's what was on YouTube that you could have watched earlier.

Like, that's all the news is now, is just reporting on things that happened on the internet. It's like, well, this is why people are cutting the cord. Yeah, because it made sense when people had to send in their VHSs, but they're irrelevant now. Oh, yeah, AFV is like fucking dead. Nobody gets shit. Why would you give the rights to your funny home footage away to a television show when you can keep the rights and upload it on YouTube and probably get more views? Yeah, the best you could get is 100 quid for. Yeah. It's like it's a dead business model. And at least with, at least with Tosh, like, you get to keep the rights to your shit.

I'm pretty sure that's the big difference between those two shows. Okay. Tosh covers it and they have a license to cover it. But I'm pretty sure AFV, like, you'd have to sell, literally, like, when you put your, send them your VHS, it's like, I'm waiving all the rights to this. And now you own the footage. I'm pretty sure. That's how it works. Is this still around?

AFV? Yeah. Yeah, the fact that we don't know is pretty telling, isn't it? I don't think it is. like we're talking about it might be completely irrelevant. It says to present. Yeah, it's been renewed for 31st season. Yeah.

Jesus, what the fuck? 31 seasons, wow. My God. Yeah, new season coming last month? Nobody updated the wiki to be announced October 2020. Oh my God. It's a lot of seasons.

Yeah. It seemed to be doing it. It's like the viewership is going down. Yeah, they still got millions of viewers. Yeah. Yeah, that used to be huge, though. Bob Saget hosting. Yeah, I remember.

I remember Bob Sagitt. I was watching it when it was the second guy. I kind of missed the Bob Sagitt era. I forgot the second guy. Tom Bergeron? Yeah. Yeah. That's him.

There's no point to it anymore. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't even that funny when it was on. It was like a lot of bad jokes on the laugh track No, the clips were funny Yeah, some of the clips were funny There was no internet back then And then they would just give the fucking top prize to the kid

Because it was all audience votes And then as soon as it was It would show like a fucking cute baby It's like the baby's in the audience You want to make the baby feel good, don't you? You gotta vote for the baby As soon as it showed them in like the top three spots I'm like the baby is fucking getting it

And it would happen every single goddamn time Fucking stupid caveman brain audience members going, you're a cool baby and that's it when they're clearly better clips. Whatever. The funniest video never won. But that might just be like a studio set up

you know, to make... Like, like they rigged it. They rigged the folks. It's not like it matters. Make it always the baby video. But the funniest video is never won, ever. Yeah. I always go to the baby.

You're so happy, baby, you won. Maybe he doesn't give a shit. Yeah, the best ones were like people getting hurt, though. So they can't just be like with the winners. Like someone getting hit in the head. Injury. Yeah, pain. Like, yeah, come on this show.

You get to see yourself get injured. Football in the groin. Yeah. The Dragon Wagon has one for us. Alex Ralph and Adam. My girlfriend and I just watched Brazil. We both didn't like the film. What do you like about the film?

I'd like to know your opinions. You're wrong. Remember the shot where they were in the office and it panned all the way down? Yeah, bum bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, yeah, and they're playing the music. That alone is fucking amazing. Like, that is better than most movies.

I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about. Very, depotian, yeah, acting. Oh, yeah, the miniatures, Terry Gilliam and his miniatures is always so insane. Like, that's another example of, like, super fucking convincing effects, really. It's like a lot of the miniatures. Very dreamlike. Yeah. I don't know, you can't convince someone else to like something that they don't, so.

The themes of, like, like, a lot of. totalitarian society trying to control you trying to like you know conform you in the one thing and you're trying to escape and there's like all these dream sequences that like represent him breaking free of like the system it's there's so much shit going Robert De Niro inspired by Brave New World Robert DeNiro's character so good uh-huh yeah the ending's super dark at least at least the uh the u.s i think ending is a bit different it's like a happier ending but the real ending of Brazil is like a super dark. Great. Awesome. Like I love the finale.

Ending's amazing. Terry Gilliams got good style. Mm-hmm. Yeah, he does. Great style. Even though he's an idiot. Yeah, he does. He's got a few awesome movies. If you're in low, they... He does. He has a few. Twelve Monkeys is very good. I was re-watching that for Bruce Willis Athon. Oh, yeah? And, like, yeah, he's quite, you know, Bruce Willis is fine in it, but, yeah, that's a good movie.

Mm-hmm. Two Monkeys. Oh, yeah, Twelve Monkeys. Oh, yeah, 12 Monkeys is awesome. That's one where, like, the time travel actually worked. It's one of, like, two movies where the time travel is consistent with itself. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I would say that that's, like, my favorite Brad Pitt performance, too, is in 12 Monkeys. He is really good in that movie.

His lazy eye is fucking perfect. Oh, yeah. He's like, he plays a very unique, watchable character. Like, he transforms into that character. It's awesome. Yeah, he really does. Yeah, that's what I was saying about him in the Wallace's on. I got to watch that movie again.

Holy shit. He's so memorable. Yeah. I haven't seen that one in a while. Anyway, that's what we liked about fucking Brazil. Like, what do you... Yeah.

What do you want? Well, someone mentioned Monty Python, like one of the other question. Uh-huh. Yeah. All of his stuff is very goofy and, like, zany. Like, if you don't like his kind of tone,

that's fine. Yeah. I could understand that. It could be a bit much in the wrong circumstance. Yeah. Like, I was thinking 12 monkeys and kind of the hands of someone else

and how different it could be. Yeah. Just be like a straightforward drama. I believe there's, even a television adaptation of it. It's just like a generic sci-fi show. Yeah, it didn't look good. But Terry Gilliam makes it like a really

silly, you know, fucking over-the-top thing that actually makes it stick in your brain. Like, the mental asylum sequence is so memorable. And it has nothing to do with like time travel or anything. It's just this random Looney Tunes like

segment in the movie. Well, yeah, just Brazil has so much imagery. The angel wings and the baby face and the stretch skin over the woman. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Some of great scenes.

Yeah. Give it another try one day for those who don't like it. If you don't like it, watch it again. If you don't like it again, watch it again and keep going until you like it. Yeah. Well, Phil Bar Toys has one for us.

What are your thoughts on YouTube poop? At its worst, it's a waste of time and embarrassing to see just how unfunny or uncreative one can be, but at its best, it can show one's editing creativity and deliver a legit comedy, or at least a psychedelic experience. It's always great to see you guys referenced, shows you guys are getting around. Oh, I think that there's some really, really well-edited YouTube poops that take a lot of effort just to be a shit post, and I commend that. You can tell as well. I wouldn't say I go browsing for YouTube poops, though. Yeah, it was something I was into when I was

like a younger teenager, you know, like when it was kind of a newer thing. There was a particular one based on clips from Spider-Man 2 that I really liked called Revenge of the Mad Mad Man. That's a particularly good one that still holds up to this day. I would recommend that one.

Okay. What do you think, Ralph, about poop? I don't have much YTP experience. No, you miss the whole YouTube poop. They're crazy. They're pretty funny. Yeah, I've kind of scrolled through them. There's some funny ones.

I guess there's an L.A. No.R. one that's kind of funny. Oh, yeah. But, you know, I have no idea, like, what it's called. Yeah, are they as popular as they ever were, and I just don't watch them as much anymore, or is they, like, an era of YouTube poops being supreme- I don't think they're still alive. They're definitely not dead, but I just feel like they're not as, they're not the meme anymore, you know? The joke on YouTube.

I don't know if they ever were the meme, though. Yeah, this is what I mean. It's probably just in my algorithm for, like, a long time. Exactly. I was about to say, like, the algorithm. can determine what every video thumbnail is. Yeah, it's terrifying. Just everything you're recommended is just shit that you're watching. I'm sure if you watched like three YouTube poops in a row right now,

you get recommended some more. Yeah, the fresh YouTube poop content that's coming out of this. Someone in the comments will say who's, you know, on fire in the YouTube poop community. Who's the best pooper on YouTube? Little Bear Jetsky has one. What are your opinions on listening to album leaks? Is it morally wrong or disrespectful to the artist to listen to their music early? Yeah, it's disrespectful, but you could do it anyway.

Well, I don't know. Like, it implies it's unfinished, right? Yeah. I wouldn't want to watch or listen to something that's not the finished product. It's like, oh, you have it faster, but it's not as good. Like, okay, well, I hope that mentality doesn't destroy your fucking life. Surely if someone's a fan enough to go to the effort of finding an early leak, it's not really morally wrong because it implies they're interested in some way, right?

And chances are they'll support the main thing when it comes. It's just out of interest, right? If I lose hope that it's going to be released in the next decade, then I'll watch a leak. I'm like, what the fuck's going on with that new? Gaspar Noe film with Charlotte Gainsberg. Like that was at Cannes like two years ago. It doesn't have a release. What the fuck?

There's definitely a leak out there for that one. But I'm kind of just hoping that it'll get released anyway and that I don't have to watch a leak. What was that huge one, the movie that leaked? It was like a big profile movie, but it had no visual effects in it. What the fuck? Oh, what? Yeah, it was like a big movie that leaked somehow. but all the visual effects shots weren't finished.

That sounds awesome. How recent? Yeah, that sounds great. It was a while ago. I'm pretty sure it was like kind of early 2000s type. Well, not early 2000s, late 2000s, sorry. Yeah, I have no idea. No, it was Exmoin's Wolverine.

That's what it was. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. The whole movie leaked about any of the visual effects. That sounds awesome. Oh, every movie needs to have that. Yeah. Yeah.

No, I agree. I want a no effects version of. everything. Yeah, for some reason that just triggered a memory. I want to see if I can find that. That would be hilarious to watch, I think. Game of Thrones leaked early. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. There were like some hackers that went on the HBO, got all the seasons. It should be the law that if you have special effects in your movie, you have to release a no effects for it. Because then what we would have is like, you know, you'd have a movie like cats or something with like shitty CG and then someone would just flex. on them and be like, okay, I did this by myself

I did this by myself in my basement. I fixed the movie for you, you idiots. I would love that. Yeah, make it way better. Yeah. Oh, do you remember the hateful eight? The hateful eight, like leaked or something. Oh, did it? I'm pretty sure the scripts. The scripts did, yeah.

And Tarantino's like, I'm not going to make the movie now. Then he did. Yeah, right. Yeah. Great movie. See, I don't know. Like, people... Yeah, see, great movie. I guess Shane Carruth leaked his own script for the modern ocean.

I guess he did that himself. But I don't know. If a script's out before a movie's out, I'm not going to read the script. Like people are like, hey, Adam, would you think of the leaked script? I'm like, I didn't read it. Why would I do that? I'd rather just watch the movie. Yeah, I didn't tend to chase that kind of stuff.

Yeah. Like, I have patience. That's something that I have. I guess not everybody has that. I don't want to spoil the story. There's just a bunch of other movies to watch, you know? Like, I'm not pressing to, like, watch a leaked movie when I could just watch a movie that's out. I just read Revenge of the Sith was leaked.

Oh. An MGM employee leaked it online. That must have been quite early kind of internet, like, torrenting stuff, 2005. Yeah. And it was downloaded 16,000 times. Awesome. It was so different then. Yeah.

The equivalent now is when YouTube channels accidentally upload four movies and just make them public. I can't know. That happened a few years ago. Oh yeah? Yeah, it was supposed to be a trailer, but it was the full movie of whatever it wants. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, I can't remember what I think it was a Sony thing, but... I'll never forget the mummy trailer that means.

I was about to mention that. The audio was all fucked up. Oh, yeah. But that audio that was messed up in Tom Cruise is, you know, it's just an audio track of Tom Cruise. yelling. Yeah. I've rewatched that again recently and it's like just as funny as the first time I saw it. Yeah, it's

still funny. It's like, oh, I forgot about this scream. Yeah, oh, I found what it was. It's a 2018 film Callie the Killer was put on the whole night on Sony Pictures Entertainment YouTube channel. They left up for six hours.

Oops You fell asleep You fell asleep You took it out Yeah Whoever did it Yeah why not Just upload the whole

fucking movie on YouTube It's just upload it It's 2020 Yeah they should just start doing that With all their movies Stuff putting things in theaters Just put them on YouTube Yeah

You know There's a significant amount of films From like every major studio That are being viewed And purchased

so infrequently that it would actually be financially beneficial for them to just toss them on YouTube anyway. Just like go through your catalog, be like, okay, nobody's watching this shit. Put it on YouTube. Just fucking do it. Put some ads on it. You'd probably make more money. Yeah. A few million people will watch it if it's like a high profile movie from years ago. Why not? Yeah, no, it's, it makes too much sense. That's why they won't do it. Exactly. I think there was a studio that that though. Trauma did that, I believe. Oh, trauma did that for sure, yeah.

But there's also a studio, it might have been Warner Brothers or something, but they had like a separate YouTube channel and they called it like something classics or whatever. And it might have been region locked only to the US or something, but they just had a bunch of movies from their catalog that like nobody was watching. So like mostly just shit that you haven't heard of, but they just tossed it up on YouTube. I think you can find Come and See and like Raw on YouTube. Oh, yeah.

You can find all sorts on that now. You can find a lot of documents. Documentaries on YouTube. Yeah. Yeah, I watched Dea Zachary on YouTube actually. Oh, wow. Very nice. Let's end on this one then from Your Movie Swallows.

What makes reincorporation and callbacks work in a film? I usually enjoy it when a movie uses a line or joke twice. If the second use brings new meaning to the table, for example, I always liked Batman Begins. It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me. But sometimes callback feel like a cheap way of making a script seem tighter than it is. like the very lazy, never underestimate a droid line from The Rise of Skywalker. So what do you guys think is the secret, subtlety, significance to the story? What?

Pretty much everything you just said. Yeah, these questions keep answering them. Yeah. You're doing the question. The answer is in the question. All right, next. Yeah, I don't know. We could do one more.

I just, I don't know what to add to, like you've answered the whole question in the question. Guys, it's getting too good at this. If they're significance to them, sometimes they can be like more endearing. Sometimes they're too smart. Cheesy if they're. Yeah. I think, yeah, it's when you don't notice it, I think, where it makes it extra satisfying

to be able to hide it away. Yeah, if there's like a purpose to it. Yeah, we can do this other one if you guys want to skip over that one, that's fine. Sure, yeah. Next time, if you have a question, you answer it in the question, just don't ask it. Yeah, open-ended is the key. Yeah, it's the key. Unless it's a really good question.

You guys are very smart. Something that we could add to. It's almost like a weird flex. They're just shutting us down before we can even answer it. Mad Dog 0-089 then has one for us. Are there any good movies based off the Lovecraftian mythos or on cosmic horror? If there aren't any good ones, do you think there's a reason for that? I don't fucking know.

I would say like annihilation is like cosmic horror Okay, that's a good one Event Horizon as well I'd say it's cosmic horror too It's like alien cosmic horror Like I'm not even sure Yeah I think it would

But as far as like Lovecraftian though I guess like the mist Oh yeah Very much so The Prince of Darkness too It's weirdly not as common In films as you'd expect On how popular

and like the imagery from some of the lovecraftian kind of stories. Yeah, I did not like color out of space, but apparently other people did. It's definitely untapped. I really like cosmic horror especially. Having it set in space just adds such a layer of fear to it of the unknown. So, yeah, there's definitely space for it. Yeah, I know what you mean. I would like to see more of that type of thing.

Like, I don't know. Sometimes I'm just like scrolling through internet shit and somebody has like this cool fucking image of like a giant kathulu coming out from the ocean i'm like holy shit that looks like fucking scary but you know a movie tries to tackle it and it's just shit i guess the thing maybe yeah the things yeah kind of has that kind of thing going on i would say um like geoma del torre kind of seems to have a love for that kind of oh it's more like fantasy kind of myths and legend yeah yeah it's not really lovecraft yeah how do you define it yeah yeah Yeah, and the same.

I mean, it's Lovecraftian when there's a Fishman. Yeah, the Lighthouse has some Lovecraft in it, like just a little. Yeah, maybe I'm not thinking deep enough. Thinking too literally. Yeah, I would need a better definition. Yeah, there are touches and obviously lots of things are inspired by Lovecraft and everything, but... We're just bad at answering questions. Yeah.

We suck. We're very tired. Cancell. Sorry. I think aliens are good one. All right, I guess that does it for questions. Yeah. Is that it?

You have one more? No, we can do one more. But we said one more twice. We can do another one more third time. Yeah, do another one more. That's fine. Okay. I can't read this.

El, the Joshua. Are there any banned slash unreleased films that you're most interested in watching? For example, Don's Plum or the Day the Clown cried. I'm not familiar with these. Do you guys know anything about? I know nothing about that. Oh, dude, I am so fucking hyped for the day the clown cried.

Let me pull up the fucking wiki here. Don's plum. Yeah. So Jerry Lewis directed and starred. And I think it was his idea to never release the film. And basically it was like the plot of it is like it's set around. around the Holocaust and there's like a clown that's like trying to convince what I'm gonna have to look up this this whole fucking plot yeah this sounds wacky but but apparently the idea is like he he was like oh this is pretty fucking poor taste I don't want to I don't want to release this apparently people have seen it somehow oh apparently the it can't be screened until June 2024 so maybe after that you'll be able to watch Oh my God.

Yeah. Okay, yeah, the Library of Congress got a copy of it in 2015 under the stipulation that it would not be screened before June 2024. So you've got to wait a few years. Okay. So we all got something to look forward to then. Yeah. Yeah. And what was the other one, Don's Plum?

I have no idea what that one is. Don's Plum starred DiCaprio. Oh, yeah. Okay. And Toby McGuire, right? and then they sued to have the film not be released, basically. Don's Plum. Mm-hmm.

It's from 2001. Yeah. And DiCaprio's basically just been, you know, suppressing this movie. He doesn't want to come out. Tony McGuire. Okay. What the fuck? This is bizarre.

They just won't release it because maybe it's bad. It's screened outside. of the US apparently. Okay. It's got mixed reviews. So, like, I'm not really sure what happened there. All I know is DeCaprio and Toby McGuire do not want the movie to be shown. Weird.

The director put it on a site for free, and then DeCaprio removed it. He, like, sued to have it removed from the site. That means it's probably out there somewhere. It's on YouTube, I think. Oh, wow. Yeah. So you can find it. What if it's just, like, not even terrible?

They want to be suppressed. Who knows? Because I understand the day the clown cried because he's like, this is this. Yeah, it's just a bad taste. It's like, he's putting a clown in. The plum ones are almost more interesting. Uh-huh. But the director seems to want to release this movie and, you know, the stars that want to not release it.

How did you, like, sue successfully over that? It must be something weird in their contract. Yeah. That's really interesting. There's the Robert Rodriguez film starring John Malkovich called A hundred Years. that's not being released until 2115. It's probably just going to be a piece of shit because it's literally just an ad for an alcohol.

That's lame. Yeah. It's pretty lame. 100 years from now. Yeah. It's like, this is our 100 years aged batch. Blah, bra,

or something. Yeah. No, if you're going to come up with a concept like that, you've got to commit. You've got to make like a proper movie. Like I can actually make it really good and just not let anyone see it. You need to make like 2001 a space office. Yeah.

Yeah. For that to even. It's like. And it's just. Otherwise, there's just no reason to even... Robert Rodriguez, I don't know. Like, whatever the film is, he won't have to live with the consequences. Yeah, what if it just turns out to just be a copy of Spike Kids 3?

Yeah. The Melkiewicz. Yeah. Yeah. The films people will be watching 100 years from now or like the classics that are reviewed in film history. Yeah, like 2001. Yeah.

Yeah, it's funny thinking about banned movies, because a lot of them are funny to think about now. Like, Monty Python's Life of Brian that we mentioned earlier was banned in a lot of places, because it was considered quite edgy for the time, which is funny to think about now. Yeah, there's a lot of tame movies that were banned for no reason in certain places.

But whatever. I guess, like, banned completely, like, banned outright. It's probably more about, what the question is. Yeah, there's only a few of them. I think. There's probably more than I'm not being. I'm interested in this plum movie.

I'm very interested in the day the clown cried. So if anybody ever has any updates on that, let me know in the subreddit. Yeah. I'm very interested in movies getting delayed and pushed back because that's kind of happened a lot. Both production.

Mm-hmm. Chaos walking. Uh-huh. There's also, well, like the, what is it, Rogue One? All these movies that were supposed to be released that got pushed back. I wonder if they're changing anything. They actually pushed back Jack Reacher a week or so because they're shooting. Right.

So there's things that happen in the news sometimes that kind of affect, like the release of a film on that date. That's like the only example. Like the Jack Reacher's one. Is there another one like that where they like delayed the movie because of a tragedy? I'm pretty sure that rock movie about like an earthquake or something. might have been delayed in Japan around the time of an earthquake, someone like that. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, there were a few movies that got delayed because of 9-11. Mm-hmm. There was... Yeah, they edited Spider-Man out of the World Trade Center. Collateral damage starring Arnold. Mm-hmm. That got, like, pushed forward. Yeah.

All right, I guess that answers that. Yeah. Yeah. that's that. Very interesting. I didn't know about that movie with Leonardo DiCaprio. Yeah.

It's quite bizarre. You might have to watch that one day. It's like the Streisand effect. I wouldn't be wanting to watch this if you didn't ban it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. You can just pull an A24

with Under the Silver Lake. It's just like, oh, it's released. But we're not going to promote it. Yeah, they didn't promote it at all. They should put it in two theaters. All right. So I guess This is where we ask for a recommendation

From Alex It's me, is it? I believe so I got a good one for us One that With my boy David Thuleas Oh shit Pulling out naked by Mike Lee

Ninety-three Awesome Meaning to watch this for a long time Heard very good things Yeah, me too I have not seen it Yeah Hope is good

I hope it's easy to find too. Oh yeah? I think this might have a criterion. I don't know. I'll have to look that up. I believe it does, yeah. All right. If you don't want to be spoiled for the film Naked by Mike Lee,

watch it before the next episode is out. These episodes come out every two weeks, but you can watch them early as they're edited. Going to sardonicast.com, signing up for premium. That's only $2 a month. Also, patreon.com slash sardonicast. Same thing. Also, you ever notice how?

You listen to other podcasts, and it's like, man, there's like, there's like sponsors like the whole time. It's like, I just want to listen to the podcast. Notice how we don't do that. Maybe you should just thank us by going to fucking $2 a month on Patreon or the fucking website. Yeah? Isn't that cool? Yeah. We're like, we're better than other people.

Damn straight. All right. That's cool. That's fun. Fuck other people. All right. I'm fucking tired I'm gonna go back to bed

Tired wasted Love you darling Thank you everybody Thanks for listening Bye bye bye Thanks everyone Bye take care