Sardonicast - Sardonicast #78: Console Wars, Small Axe, The Diving Bell and the Butterfly

Episode Date: January 25, 2021

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Buy Sardonicast T-Shirts, and other merchandise at https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast. Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthemoviemaker Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Ralph's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ralphthemoviemaker Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Fan art: https://www.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/kw3m5r/my_sardonicast_fan_art/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/kwomyp/alex_adum_and_ralph/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/l0udih/im_a_bit_behind_on_the_podcast_but_i_really/ Timecodes: 0:00 - Intro 2:15 - Console Wars 26:15: Small Axe Movies 44:52: Oscars 2021 discussion 49:30: The Diving Bell and the Butterfly 1:16:25 - Q&A 1:16:40 Do you guys think movies should have intermissions? 1:23:33 Could you guys explain what you mean when you criticize a movie for being manipulative? 1:32:35 What event in 2020 do you want to see it as a film, and what events do you not want to see in a film? 1:40:54 I wanted to know what your thoughts on HBO's Euphoria is? 1:47:34 Have you seen any of Genndy Tartakovsky works? Ralph's recommendation: Jackie Brown (1997)

Three, two, one. 2001, 2001, 2001, 20-0-1, they'll say, 20-1 they'll say. Hi, this is Sardinacast. I'm Adam from Your Movie Sucks, and that was a newly uncovered song that was supposed to be promotional

for Stanley Kubrick's 2001 of Space Odyssey, but he rejected it 50 years ago, and it has now seen the light of day, and it's pretty fucking, funny, honestly. Oh, yeah. Who else is here? I'm totally gonna have to check that out.

I was wondering. I'm Ralph from YouTube.com slash Rothlo Movie Maker. And I'm Alex from my H.E. And that was quite a ditty. Oh, man. It's really funny. I just link it to you if you want to listen to it right now. Yeah, totally.

I want to hear your reactions. It's pretty funny. Yeah, I think I saw you tweet about it. Where did you put it in the Discord? In the Discord thing. What the fuck? This is awful. It's like my new favorite bad song

Yeah 20-01 they say And nobody said it they were wrong They made a bold prediction And it did not come true No nobody said 20-01 Yeah they really focused on the wrong one Well there was another score composed for 2001

That they rejected basically And used like just classical music Yeah exactly And it wound up just working completely And not that that score is bad but it would have been like this. It would have made the movie age kind of poorly. Exactly, exactly.

If this song was associated with the film, like if it was actually in it, which I'm not sure was supposed to be in the movie, but if it was in the movie, it would be like, oh, this is the one thing that you would say today, like, oh, this is from the 60s. Everything else is just like timeless, but it's just one thing that would hold back.

That would ruin it. Very, very goofy tone, too. Yeah, it's got a lot of dislikes, too. Yeah. The version of lit us. It's pretty funny. Alex, so I've got a question for you, and it does not have to do with your British heritage this time.

Last time, maybe last episode, whichever episode, you mentioned you have an Xbox Series X. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah, I have one. So I've actually been wrestling with, like, the justification for owning one because, like, I don't know why anyone would buy one,

and I'm trying to understand. Could you help us understand why one would buy an Xbox Series X? So I do realize it is one of those a little bit, and why would you not get a PlayStation over it? But I don't know, I've always been embedded in the Xbox ecosystem. I use GamePass a fair amount, so we haven't bought a game for so many months. And also, this is so sad, but I love achievements,

and I can't leave them. And also, like, I don't like playing games at, like, my work desk. I like separating the idea of, like, play and work, so... So you just... You don't want to use a PC is what you're doing. Yeah, although I do occasionally, I don't know. It's just... I don't know.

I just got one can... I've been using it quite a lot, actually. Mostly because of game parts, like, I played Doom Eternal on it for... Okay. ...pay anything. Yeah, I've been enjoying it, actually. I wasn't trying to be like... Like, you know, like this brand is always superior because of tribalism or something.

I'm just like, I like Xbox too. Like, Halo's one of my favorite games ever. But like all of the games that they're releasing on the Xbox Series X, they're cross-releasing on PC. And so it's just like there's no, if consoles don't have exclusivity, then there's no real reason to get them, in my opinion. And I mean, like, yeah, it's a good thing that they don't have exclusivity because then I'm not forced to get it. Yeah, I get what Alex is saying But also, like, I buy these games And I kind of just connect my PlayStation controller

To the computer, and I play it on my bed You know, I plug the TV in So I play it pretty casually too. Yeah, but I get what you're saying. Like, it's a pan in the ass to play at your work desk Because you feel like, you know, like you're working almost. Hmm. Yeah, it's just like a mindset thing

Trying to just break it up a little bit, you know? Yeah, instead of like spending all my time in one one position. But you had like an ex-bone too, right? Like the Xbox one? Yeah, yeah, I had the bone. Yeah, me too. And I'm just like...

I know that it's backwards... The new one, the series X is backwards compatible with all the other generations. But the backwards compatibility list is the exact same as what the X-bone can already play. And so if I'm a person that has a PC and an X-bone, then I guess there will be literally zero games that come out that will justify buying a series X.

Yeah. Yeah. I've, I, like, bought a ton of games on the 360 and the Xbox one, so my whole library's there. So I think it's just,

just sticking to it. If I'd hopped on Steam earlier, I definitely would have stayed with Steam, but I just can't be jumping to all these different, I've just got to pick one, and then, like, I'll play the PlayStation exclusives. I'll play what I have to on PC, but,

yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Just keep it simple. I like stream all my games, anyway, pretty much. Yeah, that's true. I think it's more cost-effective in the long run to have a PC

because you don't have to get new consoles. There's usually remasters. Like, if you get a PS4, you get a remaster. But PC, you just play it, you know? Yeah, and you can upgrade your graphics card, right? Yeah, you can upgrade one part of it instead of needing to jump to the next generation or what they did last generation

with PS4 Pro and series X... The Xbox one. X. It's so good. I hate the Microsoft Xbox Xbox Xbox Xbox Xbox the way they did it. The Xbox 1X was the midpoint generation thing. Yeah. And I just found that to be so slimy and sneaky from both Sony and Microsoft because it was like, okay, they're basically admitting at this point

that the technology is growing so exponentially that consoles cannot keep up with PCs. So they have to release a new generation to keep them updated. But they didn't call it a new generation because they were like, okay, people will notice that it's been less than six years this time. So let's just, let's call it Xbox 1X and PS4 Pro. And it's like, okay, it's using the same user interface and, you know, same software, basically. But it's like better stats.

So you can, you know, they're like going into the 60 FPS and like 4K stuff, just inching in there. But pretending it's not like a new generation of console when it might as well be at that point. It really cannot compete. So many new PC parts are released every year, you just, it would be impossible. These, like, consoles have to be certified over, like, years and design. Yeah, because it's just one thing. And I hear that what's intriguing me a lot about the Xbox shit going on is, like, I was hearing, I didn't look too much into it, but I was hearing that the series X. Is that what?

This Xbox, that's the new one, right? I think that's what it's, you're confusing me now. Yeah, series. Yeah, the new Xbox. The new Xbox. Speaking of 2001, it looks like the monolith. Yeah, you're right. that's funny

I heard that they were doing like kind of having it so that it was like the reason they were also cross-releasing games on PC is because they wanted to like join forces and be like kind of a hybrid experience and like having both

of them is like the ultimate thing but I have yet to see how exactly that will play out or how they're planning on making that happen. I don't know the yeah I think their plan is to go they just want to be on everything because they have this like app thing you can like stream games

too and like they're quite at the forefront I think with streaming tech the internet isn't there though yeah that's the wide support with good enough internet maybe if you're in the heart of a city you're able to find wire enough but yeah Microsoft has had that problem where

they're the head of the curve in certain ways where like from their bubble like it makes sense but when you actually get it the people that can be lost in translation a little bit. Like with their awful original Xbox One reveal, do you remember how bad that was?

It was the worst thing ever. It was so funny because there was fucking what was his name? Like Phil something, the fucking Microsoft puppet. Phil Spencer, yeah. And he was out there like promoting the expo and saying like, no, all of these terrible anti-consumer

things, this is how we design the console. We can't just change it and then zero people pre-ordered it. And then he came back out and he was like, we're changing the console. It's like, it's, it's, where like connect wasn't like, you didn't have to have connect for it. It didn't have to be always on. You can now trade your games and stuff. Like, all these crazy anti-consumer things that were revealed about it before lunch that just like they had to change it.

Otherwise, literally nobody would buy it because Sony wasn't doing those things. If perhaps both consoles were doing these ridiculous anti-consumer things, then, you know, they could get away with it. bit. Yeah, and it was just like TV, TV, TV. Oh yeah. Use your console to watch TV. Yeah, HDMI in. Instead of like playing games on it. Yeah. Nobody used that. I didn't use it. Yeah. So weird. The Kinect was the worst part though, aside from how just obscenely large that console was. Like it was like a VCR. It was like three bricks. And it was so expensive. It was so much more money than the PS4. Because it came with that fucking camera. Yeah. And yeah. Like that was.

the biggest mass. They were trying they they had made it so necessary to use this gimmicky add-on that was pretty much already at the end of its shelf life by the time that generation of console came out. Like connect was dying they like immediately stopped support right after the console launched. Yeah I guess for some reason on the 360 Connect like sold weirdly well but that's on like an install base way bigger yeah it's like a gimmick on a thing everyone already owned. It was also a response to the Wii Because the Wii did the gimmicky thing With motion controls

And then Sony and Xbox followed But instead of coming Attached to the console and being like Oh yeah this is like a necessary thing to play the game They were just like oh it's an add-on There are certain games you can play like this Certain games that you can play better with it Blah blah blah

Yeah There was the PlayStation move with a camera and a controller That thing sucked That thing was terrible Yeah I mean, it was okay. I think I had resistance three for it. And then there's like that pet game where you have like a dog and you like raise them to be like whatever.

It's like a pet game. That was fun. I mean, there's a billion of those. It's not worth $400. Yes. It's not worth whatever. Wonderbook. Yeah, it's like one of those webcam games with a.

Yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about, but I don't remember the title. I worked at Best Buy when it was a thing. Oh, okay. Like on the displays and shit. Yeah, that thing wasn't that great. Yeah. It's so weird.

I don't know what consoles are going to do. Because they're becoming more and more unnecessary. And if Microsoft is now... The winner's like Nintendo, because they just went the complete opposite strategy. I guess so, yeah, because it's portable. It's like not going for power. I think they all have very valuable IP. Like, Nintendo has Mario and all that shit.

And then Sony has Uncharted. They have Last of Us. And so if they just put out those games for their console exclusively, I would get those concepts just to play them. You know, so I think they could do well in that way. Like I would too. You know, it's like part of my job in a way. But like, I don't want to have to do that.

It's like they're insisting their own necessity in the same way where it's like, you know, in many areas when Uber was illegal for, you know, places like Vancouver, it was illegal up until like a couple of a year or two ago. The only reason you would take a taxi is because Uber is illegal. It's like they're actively preventing you from having a service that you want. It's like, yeah, I'll pay for a taxi, but you're kind of being forced to because it's, you know, like, that's your only option. Even though there are better options that you should be able to have, that's what console exclusivity is, basically. Yeah, but there's some cool things like, if there's like an exclusive PlayStation title, they like use the controller a bit more. You know, like you can use the touchpad and they actually integrate the use of the PlayStation.

That's fine. There's not stopping it. Yeah. And I also think it helps with, like, like, you know, like, you know. piracy because I know there's a lot of piracy with video games and I think if a game comes out for like PlayStation or something like that there's less piracy because people just download it off that that console instead of like going on the internet or whatever and like getting it on their PC and downloading it I think it's a good like anti-piracy measure and I could see why

studios would want to make games with PlayStation because they might make more money from that more people would play their game you know like something like you could do what GTA 5 did release the games on Microsoft and Sony and then work on the PC one and release that one a year later by the time that like you've already sold as much as possible as you can on those other two consoles. Like I have nothing against that. Red Dead 2 did that too, right? So I don't see that as a terrible business model. And like the PC version is better. So it's like it's not even that big of a deal if you have to wait for it. It's like, okay, well, you know, that's like the ultimate edition or whatever. They've already made like tons of money from it. So it doesn't even matter

if people pirated at that point. Yeah, it's almost pointless buying new games now anyway because they're always shit until they've updated. That cyberpunk thing. Oh, yeah. That really made me lose faith in PS5.

Yeah, I got my refund for Cybervine. That's the new console, and then it could barely run on that. It's like, why would you get a PS5 if it can't run these games? True. Yeah, I mean, like the differences between the Spider-Man Miles Morales,

PS4 and PS5, were like unnoticeable, except for parts where they intentionally downgraded on the PS4. Like they made everybody's hair look like the same texture as like bird feathers. Like every white person's hair was just like this weird like roughly mess where it was just like, what the hell is this? And then you look at like the original Spider-Man PS4 game, so not Miles Morales. And it's just like, oh, nobody's hair looked that stupid before.

This is like an intentional downgrade to make the PS5 version look better, right? That game is so short too. Oh, it was bullshit. It should have been DLC. Hit the console release. Yeah, it hit the concert release. That's why. It was like Battlefield 4 where they just kind of rushed it out.

Yeah, it was really annoying. Yeah. This is a movie podcast. No, I don't mind. I love talking about video games. Games are art. They are. I play more video games probably at this point than I watch movies.

Cuts scenes or movies? Like hours. Yeah, that's true. But you skip them, so. Yeah, I do skip. Spider-Man, I skipped them because they sucked. They sucked. Get mad

The Red Dead ones are good I don't skip those They'll love those Okay Yeah It's got to be like an interesting story Right Here's what I feel about

Like the gaming industry right now And I might have said this before But like The things to look out for And pay attention to In the gaming industry Are all like on the indie scene right now Triple A gaming has fucked up so much

Right Like all these big super budget games or whatever Like you can really see the the negative effect that like shareholders and like financial interest has on a lot of these titles like it really ruins art like we see this a lot with movies right already we see this a lot with every art form but like particularly the ones that have a lot of like hype and right now video games are what probably the most profitable entertainment industry right now like they're insane with how much like markup they have on like the games themselves yeah you can monetize

it's so many different. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, just like a Fortnite. And so like when you have shareholders and it's like, okay, well, the main goal now is to maximize the profits, right? It's not about the art anymore. You're going to have day one DLC. You're going to have like so many of these things.

Just like watch one of Cropcats videos. By the way, he's back because of cyberpunk. Yeah. It's like an hour long that video. But yeah, like that one evolve or whatever. I watched that one again recently from CROB cat CR. Oh, yeah. WB-C-A-T if anybody wants to check out this awesome YouTube channel.

Great channel. But yeah, you can really just see how the influence of money can like completely decimate a product. Right? And just make it like so that nobody wants to use it or play it. You know, you see this across all our form. Yeah. And the copycat stuff is bad too. Like someone stumbles across some kind of system that works.

Yeah. Like Fortnite with a battle class. So then it just becomes, oh, everyone, every single game needs to have this thing. the standard, yeah, every single, basically FPS or any big franchise has a battle royale mode now. Where they charge you a fuck ton of money. Yeah, now Halo has Sprint.

Woo! Fuck on. They're doing like an open world Halo now. It's like, what? Is it really open world? Like, what are they calling it? It looks so stupid and bad. I can't believe it.

Focus on the story. Isn't that what made like the first Halo so great? I mean, the gameplay too, obviously. But like, it wasn't this like huge, ridiculous spectacle. Like, maybe for the time. Like, it did for sure. break a lot of boundaries and introduce a lot of new things to the genre.

It changed the way shooters were made, but like the core mechanics of the game were just like, what is fun, right? Like what feels good to play? What is a good map design, you know? Somebody's not going to get lost here. But that simple aesthetic is there as well with the chanting monks and everything. It's like, it's so like mystical. It's completely lost that now.

They cared about like the cinematic qualities too. It's just like the fucking 343 industries didn't know shit about how to like make a story, make it cinematic, or even like just make something that looks good. Like everything looks like fucking Roblox, you know? Like they look like plastic Lego figures

or whatever. Like it's so weird now. It's like, well, you got 4K 60 FPS now. Like, that's what matters apparently. Okay. Mm-hmm. Sorry.

Yeah, speaking of like bad cutscenes, I recently ran through Halo 4 again and oh my God. These cutscenes, man. they have some really bad late age dialogue stuff yeah i remember at the time thinking it was kind of cool because it's just on the hype train for it but yeah it's it's really not good has none of that charm yeah i'm just like focusing on individuals now that's why the japanese gaming industry is still like doing pretty good is because like a lot of their games are led by a lot of like

creative individuals it feels like sure it feels more like either a person's vision or a vision from a bunch of people that have the same ideas rather than like a game created by committee sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah, I played like Yakuza Zero. Oh man, I'm going through that right now. It's so much fun. Yeah, I got it for discount on PlayStation. I'm like, let me try it. And it's actually a lot of fun. It's very funny. Like, it has a lot of personality. It's not like quite GTA in terms of like what you can do, but it's very funny and it has a lot of personality. That's what people like about like Kajima and stuff. Yeah. Exactly, even if it's flawed.

Exactly. Like, I would rather have some, like, pretentious garbage, like, death stranding where it's like, okay, at least it's his idea, even if it's a terrible idea, rather than just something where it's like, oh, this was for the shareholders. Like, you know, this was for EA. They have that EA battle pass or EA pass where you can get, like, a bunch of their games, like in one bundle, you pay every month. And I looked at it because I was considering it.

And they don't have enough games that I think would make it. would make it worth it. Yeah. Like, I like Battlefront, too. Oh, my God. That's about it. And even that's like a scam. FIFA.

FIFA. Yeah. Anything, EA. Remember when they tried to get away with the online pass? So a lot of people won't remember this. Oh, yeah. Or maybe too young. But there was a point in time where EA was very specifically EA.

And I think there was maybe some other companies that were like, okay, well, if EA is doing it, we can get away with that too. Yeah. where they were like, okay, there's a big market in reselling for video games because video games are fucking expensive. They were more expensive than movies, right? At the time, it was like $60.

Now it's like $80 per game of AAA titles. And so they looked at like stores like EB Games GameStop or whatever. They're making money off of reselling the games. We want a cut of that too. So they started introducing mechanics into their games where if you wanted to access any of the online features of said game that you purchase, then you had to have a code that was specifically limited to your account only. So if you traded the game, then because the code is already on your account, somebody else buys

a used game, then they have to pay an extra $10 to access the online features. And then their mindset in making that profitable was like, okay, now every single game that is EA has to have some sort of online component so that people feel obligated to get the online pass, otherwise they can't use it. So in game series that were already single player like Dead Space, so Dead Space 3, they were like, no, it's got to be co-op now. It's got to be a co-op game so that people

have to use the online pass to get. Yeah, I remember that. And I'm glad that idea failed. I'm glad that eventually they moved away from that. So now if you get Dead Space 3 you can get the online pass for free, like they don't give a shit anymore because it's disgusting and people didn't fall for it. They were trying to counteract like GameStop too, which

would resell games. Exactly. Basically GameStop would get the money and not EA. So they were trying to diminish that. Fuck, can you imagine, like, books doing that? Or, like, CDs or vinyl or movies? Like, fuck, like, it's so stupid and predatory. That's capitalism. It's fucking awful.

Whatever. We need to up the profits, yeah. Exactly. I mean, it ruins art is, like, the point that I'm making a lot of the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like, MassFet 2 didn't even really have, like, an online thing. Of course. Because it had to have that, like, pass.

There was, like, the Cerberus Network thing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So if you just got a secondhand copy, you just didn't get. like some content. Yeah. So they had the, they had like the versus online mode in Mass Effect 3 and then they had that like weird shit

where it was like, oh, you have to constantly like look at some online thing that helps you in the campaign. I don't even remember what that was all about. It was so stupid. Oh, your galactic readiness. Yeah,

galactic readiness. So it's like you had to fuck it. I don't remember. I don't even remember what the fucking mechanic was. Yeah, to play multiplayer matches and then like build up a bar so then you'd be ready to fight the reapers at the end. If you want your single player campaign to be good,

like it's going to fail unless you do this online bullshit. Yeah, basically. And then they also did the day one DLC for the fucking Prothian. Yeah. I pre-ordered Mass Effect 3 and I got like the obviously the day one DLC with it because I was already going to just like get everything for it. And when I was playing through the game and I got to the part where they were the Prothians, this alien race that is literally like the first two games they're like Prothians,

Prothians, but like they're talking about the entire backstory of everything that's happening. It is super important. Like, this, super important to the fucking story. And then I realized after I play that part, that what I had just played was the day one DLC. And I was like, what? This seems like essential. This is like really important to the story. This is like what they've been talking about the previous two games.

And then obviously it, you know, come to find out it's like, oh, it's day one DLC because EA literally just removed a chunk of the game and decided to put on a, $10, $20 price tag onto it and be like, no, this is DLC, when it never was supposed to be DLC. So disgusting. So that character doesn't have like proper integration into the story as well. Like it's clearly not as, yeah. I remember finding that's so frustrating because he was like a cool character.

Fucking disgusting. The cool voice and everything. Javik. Yeah, that's right. Can't wait for the remaster. Yeah, that's it. My brother told me a couple days ago that the first game he had ever pre-ordered was cyberpunk 277

I was like damn I learned a hell of a lesson yeah hopefully learns from it anyway that's our rant about the video game industry yeah

that was great I don't mind talking about that it's fun no I love talking about video games we'll see what happens in the future hopefully things aren't as predatory support indie developers support indie developers

Jonathan Blow Toby Fox I actually like the Dead Space 3, co-op, though. I actually enjoyed that. I guess sometimes it could lead to, like, good kind of mechanics in a game. Sometimes. But mostly, EA's pretty predatory, yeah, and garbage.

Uh-huh. Yeah. I just don't want to be like, fuck capitalism. Like, I'm a sheep or something. Yeah, sometimes, I feel like EA, they've been voted, like, the worst company of all time. Yeah, it was like four years in a row or something. Yeah, yeah. It's like, they should stop being kind of assholes and realize, like, yeah, there's a balance.

You know, make money. People want to support you, but also. you know don't don't fuck exploit people and I feel like that's what they're doing and like destroy game companies literally shut by them and shut them down literally yeah like the battlefield franchises it's inconsistent but I feel like the most part's got a lot of potential yeah but they you know they like pump out a game every two years hard line is terrible yeah the new battlefield is terrible the last one had like a force battle reailles thing yeah that was bad yeah that was bad but you know they got some good ones in there too

It's wasted potential So we all saw A film that is kind of also A series called Small X It's like a bunch of films Yeah, it's like five films And they're all by Steve McQueen The Better One

My second favorite director He's a director, yeah Yeah, and there's a lot of top ten lists Of the year 2020 And two of these wound up making them onto a lot of people's top ten lists. Mangrove and Lovers A Rock. Mangrove, I really understand.

Lovers of Rock, I kind of get that being on top ten list, but I found it weird just being like, whoa, that's really above Mangrove? Anyway, what did you guys think of the series? I think Ralph U. I didn't watch all of them. I watched Mangrove, but that's the only one. Yeah.

That's the important one. Yeah, I finished it up today. Yeah, I would say there were three real standouts to me, that being mangrove, the one with John Boyega and education. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I just, yeah, I really liked that one in particular. I just thought the whole series did a really good job of exploring quite a delicate subject and really kind of emphasizing mostly the, just how difficult it is to fight any kind of systematic kind of oppression.

Just really what that entails and how that affects so many different parts of. light life whether it be you know the first episode is just about a guy trying to run a restaurant yeah the the john boyager trying to be a cop and it's all set in london of course and uh in period pieces from like the 60s to 80s so that aspect of it the second and third generation immigrants and everything and the way they were kind of depicted i love all that kind of stuff yeah and it's yeah it just has a really well-rounded kind of approach to the topic and of course Steve mcqueen's direction is very impressive. The writing too is really good.

It's just, it has all the hooks it needs. I love Steve the Queen. Yeah, well, the direction and the colors and everything is, it was really enjoyable. I was, like, expecting there to be, like, a couple weaker episodes or that Mangrove was going to be the main focus, but I actually thought most episodes were pretty stellar in terms of stuff, like, released recently. It's very ambitious for him to make, like, five movies or whatever it is, like, in one kind of package.

I love shame I think shame's probably one of the greatest movies I've ever seen All of his movies are fucking great So yeah I got a lot out of just the way It's executed and the directing And yeah the acting's pretty great Yeah he's got one I haven't seen

Okay neither of you have seen hunger right No Yeah hunger's the one I need to see stuff Yeah I totally want to see it I heard there's like a famous long take in it Oh of course yeah Sounds interesting Oh it's great

Obviously the directing is like One of the best standout part to this series for me. Like, I really love just the creative way that he expresses himself, and I love that he is, like, really obviously ballsy and confident about the way that he approaches, like, visual storytelling. Yeah.

Every single one of his films that I can think of, there's always one, at least one shot in there that's, like, really different, and, you know, usually kind of, like, a long one or take where it's like, okay, yeah, you're pushing this, past the point where other directors would, and it's working out because you're doing it differently. So, like, in 12 years of slave, it's, you know, one long shot that's, I'm not going to spoil, but, like, really long, uncomfortable. Like, like, wow, this is still going great.

Like, no music. Like, it's really obvious, like, why it's still going. It's like, okay, you're supposed to be there in the moment, right? Like, this is, you know, this is not dramatized anymore. This is, like, raw, right? there's a lot of stuff like that in hunger and yeah watching this series

I am happy that it is something that is patient it is something that is unique and different I still think Mangrove works the best overall out of like each of these episodes it feels the most appropriate for its length also

it's like two hours but it doesn't feel like slow or you know unjustified for its length whereas a lot of the one hour like every other one is one hour so from episode two three four and five or each one hour I feel like a lot of those probably could have been trimmed down either to like 30 or 40 minutes lovers rock in particular as much as I love the vibe as much as I'm like so into what's going on and the energy and like you know it's just it's it's an infectious energy for that episode like that's the whole point of it but I feel like it's you know the same energy can be communicative in half an hour, not an hour, because it does start to feel like really, like, oh, okay, this is, this is like the whole thing, isn't it, you know? Yeah, sure. Yeah, I was more just thrown off by,

I didn't realize it was going to be so different because Love's Rock is so different to Mangrove, which is really, like, about that court case. It has, like, a real, like, structure in that way. So it wasn't, I was a bit thrown off by how kind of varied the series is in that way. But I also really liked that about it, actually. I liked that. you get your like really serious like specific this is this person their story how like the clashes in london and the political side of it but then you do get like the lovers rock where it's more about the just what it was like at the time you know a mood piece setting the scene and kind of like letting you live in it for a bit so you can actually understand exactly

yeah true it's being talked about you know yeah i'll watch that one next i guess lover's rock Yeah, I would say for all but mangrove You have to it's best going into them Like understanding that you do have to be like somewhat patient with it Like expect something really really slow Which I don't have a huge issue with But it's like Because of it I wouldn't really recommend it to everybody

I would recommend mangrove to like pretty much almost everybody But like the rest of them I'd be like Only people that I know like have a good amount of patience And can appreciate something just like I guess for the technical filmmaking elements of just like, oh, wow, this is all like really well shot throughout. I love the energy, love the sound design, you know, great acting, but might not. Performances too. Yeah, the performances, but might not need, I guess, like a really structured traditional narrative sort of thing going on, you know.

Yeah. Honestly, the only one where I felt the length was Love's Rock, which is, you know, I did also see it was the one being. Very understandable. Yeah. So I was almost like wondering what I was missing until it finished and I kind of figured what it was going for. But as I say, with the different episodes and the different goals, I was a bit confused at first. But I'll have to rewatch that one. But as far as the other ones, though, I thought they were quite succinct in the way they went through.

And I guess, yeah, it is obviously like mostly talking like drama. But I guess that's the appeal of stuff like this. There's just like those of really understandable, relatable, like characters like John Beeger and Red white and blue and he's got this really interesting like relationship with his dad who's like never bring cops around here and he like I guess kind of spoilers a little bit he like keeps it a secret from his dad and obviously the the chaos that comes from that this each episode has those hooks as I said earlier but they're all so different from each other it does give like a really wide view of this this time period it's just it is a really ambitious project because then

you do have like the quiet like education episode which is about an essential part that people forget about like how important education is it's like really key it's like not as blatantly i guess like it's not as blatant in what people would expect to be covered by the series i guess yeah yeah and i think because it is set in the UK like seeing the schools and everything and the just the devil in the details and all the mise on scene they put on the walls and everything it just felt very like genuine and accurate and like it was just trying to portray like real grief about hamming it up or anything.

It's just very real in that way. So with this in like 12 years of slave, I'm kind of like, I would love to hear Steve McQueen talk about his own experiences growing up. Yeah. It seems like, I mean, like if he, you know, this is like a few in a row now,

or I guess there was widows in between, but, you know, like it seems like he would obviously have some sort of, you know, personal experience that he's attached to because this is clearly a suburb. that he's really passionate about. Yeah, and clearly a ton of research went in as well. Oh, yeah, it's very genuine, especially with the dialect, too.

I was really impressed with that. Yes, and all the accents and everything. Yeah, yeah. Although I'm not like an expert on the dialect, but, you know, it seemed genuine enough to me from a person that obviously is just a Canadian white dude. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Needed subtitles.

That was a really cool detail, actually. Yeah, there's all sorts of different accents, because London's such a mixing pot so yeah that was a cool detail I noted down to yeah I also noticed because I had the subtitles on there were a lot of in every single episode there were a lot of um moments where the subtitle would say like sucks teeth and the character would go like or whatever I was wondering if that was like I'm like I would have to assume that that was like a like a bit of a like a cultural sort of thing like more often than yeah I'm not sure I wanted to have subtitles on but on iTunes it wouldn't like oh really so I'm

Yeah, it really annoyed me. That sucks. Yeah, it was on Amazon Prime in the US, and then like a week or two after they released it on Amazon Prime in Canada, but I guess it's just BBC in the UK. Yeah, and you've got to have, like, a TV license to watch BBC, which I don't have, so I like buy it on iTunes. You have a license for that TV? It's so stupid. Oh, God, it's so dumb. And they, like, send someone to your house.

That's funny. Yeah, I'm really blown away just by, like, how he captures things visually. every single time I'm watching one of his films like whether or not the camera is stationary or whether or not it's like moving you know like handheld it's like every single moment of it it's like I can feel

that whoever's operating the camera feels what's in the scene you know like yeah they feel the emotions there they're adding to the emotions like there's something genuine in the visual storytelling with Steve McQueen movies all the time

and it always just kind of blows me Yeah, he knows when to hold on a face. And really just take in like the emotion or expression of what the actor's doing. Like that's really, that really comes through. Yeah. In Mangrove, there's like the shot in the reflection of like the rain spattered car when Letitia Wright is on the megaphone, I think. It was her. There was like later in the courtroom where it was just like, there's this scene going on, but you just see like under the table of like people's shoes and stuff. I just love like little kind of like creative ways of showing things where it's like, there's too many directors that walk into a set and just think of the scene of like,

okay, well, these characters are talking. I'm going to show these characters, you know, just like a, like A, B, A, A, B, maybe a wide shot, go on, whatever. But Steve McQueen always finds like these, like, really unique ways of covering a scene where it's just like, okay, like, he actually put some thought into it or someone. emotion into it. It doesn't even seem like calculated to the point where like I don't even know if he storyboarded it or if he just showed up and was like, you know, I feel like we should go in to like the rain spattered car here and do this or like go under the table sort of thing. Like it

might just be like more impulsive. I don't know. But whatever it is, he doesn't. Yeah, the fact you can't tell means it works. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's like a moment in the education episode where the young boy is he's waiting for his sister like in the bathroom. Like he's just desperate to get in there and she won't let him in that typical kind of sibling way and he like starts running down the stairs to tell his mum and then that's when she comes out

I just there's loads of nice sort of homely details like that that really like make you settle in to the mood of it. You just reminded me of the shot which I'm not really going to spoil but let's just say one of the characters is like lying down in a restrained position and it

just goes on for like so long. Yes yeah and then there's another shot that's like nearly identical that's in a completely different situation and it's reincorporated later and just like if you think about those two shots you're really you're saying a lot about the situation without spoiling it it's like you're saying yeah so much about like the systemic version or the systemic nature of what's being expressed in this series yeah yeah that was that was episode four wasn't it which had some cool stuff in it oh yeah that was four especially like the that was the one that ended but there was like a poem with this the slideshow of pictures and stuff i thought that was that was

pretty powerful and like his advice in the in the cell of you know like reading and educating yourself is like so important and that you you can't really choose your future if you don't know your past kind of stuff and yeah just lots of thoughtful ideas in there i like the cast a lot of mangrove anyway. There's like Letitia Wright who's in Black Panther so everyone knows her but there's a lot of like unknown actors like a lot of I don't want to say no names but people

who you don't see as much maybe and they were more present in that movie that I thought yeah it was cool to see like a bunch of actors I didn't recognize I feel like if this was a bigger studio production they were throwing a lot of big name actors and that might have taken me out of it a little

I don't know yeah no I agree I like the villains of Mangrove too. They were just like completely unredeemable pieces of garbage. Yeah, to the point where it was like sometimes cartoonish, but I mean, like not to say that those characters wouldn't exist. Yeah, but also, you know, that's that's the way it was. I mean, it was horrible. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They were just pieces of shit.

There's just no reason for that kind of racism. Exactly. Yeah. They were well played. Like the actors who played them were really good. Man, I was so impressed by Letitia Wright because like Black Panther doesn't really get. of somebody that much to work with. But I was like...

I thought she was really good. Yeah, she was awesome. And then she went on some crazy fucking religious anti-vex rant and deleted her social media. Whatever. Oh, nice. I don't know about that.

Wow. Yeah, good acting. Yeah, she did her job. She's a religious nut. Good actor, though. Good acting. Yeah, sure. Yeah, everyone's on that A game, obviously.

when they put on a project like this. I really loved the characters in it. I think that every episode had some characters at least that were like really relatable and really memorable and like their goals were really clear sort of thing. Yeah. It was all like in terms of characters especially, it was all really watchable.

Like I said earlier, I do wish that some were half an hour long and not an hour long. I think that would have helped it for me. but still very ambitious. Yes. It is a big time investment, which is why I haven't watched all of them yet. But I will eventually.

They sound interesting. It's a big time investment to watch, but also a big time investment to film. I wonder how he filmed it. I wonder if he took the same approach that he did with all of his other actual films, or if he treated these more like a rushed schedule sort of thing. I wonder what the budget was for all of these.

It doesn't feel rushed as the thing. Yeah, I mean, it could have been rushed without feeling rushed. Like, if someone's, like, just that talented of the director, they know, you know. Do you think that's why Mangrove's so much longer? You just got tired. No, I think, I mean, it's the pilot. Usually, like, tons of series will have, like, pilot episode is longer sort of thing. Even BBC was advertising this as, like, five new films from Steve McQueen.

So, I mean, I think the pilot was longer just because it was a better story than the other ones. And there was more justification to make it, like, an entire. entire film. And yeah, I think like even if it was released as a, an actual film in the same way that, what was that fucking Sorkin one? Mangrove probably would have been like really well received. Like there were enough people that liked that Aaron Sorkin courtroom thing that came out at a very similar point in time. I didn't bother with that one though. Yeah, I didn't even see that. Trial of the Chicago 7, I think it's called. Oh, I didn't know we wrote that. Yeah, written and directed Aaron Sorkin. Got Sasha Baron Cohen

Eddie Redmayne I saw the trailer And I was like This looks like Too many other one of these You know And then I read some articles later Which who knows maybe

You know I haven't seen the movie So it might just be full of shit But I read some articles later Just being like Mangrove Succeeded where trial Of the Chicago 7

Failed sort of thing And I don't know A lot of my watchers People in my Twitch chat Were saying it was like Kind of cheesy formulated sort of thing It just like It gives me the overwhelming impression

Of like an Oscar Beaty movie whereas Mangrove doesn't feel that way. It feels more like a soulful passion project sort of thing. I don't know. But yeah, I haven't seen Chicago 7. I guess I'll watch it before the Oscars because it's probably going to get nominated for something. Oh, yeah, the Oscars.

Yeah. Yeah, those were even more relevant this year. Well, now it's like there was this whole, I guess we're done talking about small acts, right? What are we giving it? I'm giving Mangrove an 8 out of 10. Yeah, I would rate Mangrove 4 out of 5 or 8 out of 10. Yeah.

Yeah. I think I rated every episode a four star a eight out of ten. Yeah. I really enjoyed the experience got a lot out of it. Yeah. Not, I don't have as strong of a opinion on my rating on the rest of them. I would just say overall series is like seven or an eight,

but Mangrove specifically, at least it's a pretty comfortable eight. Might be higher next time I watch it, but yeah, it'll probably make my best of the year list. Anyway, yeah, the Oscars. What are they doing?

This will be like the first year were like they're basically forced to nominate only streaming movies. They're pretty much. Yeah, which is kind of cool. They were trying so hard beforehand to like not legitimize streaming services and now it's like suck on it, Steven Spielberg. Fuck you. So it's still happening then.

I guess it just assumed they'd canceled it. No, no, no. Like six, at least six months ago. It was like so early in the pandemic even. It might have been even earlier. It might have been like fucking March of last year. I don't remember. but at some point in 2020,

they made an announcement saying that the Oscars would still be happening, but they would delay it until, I think, April? Instead of, usually the Oscars would take place in, I think, February and March. So the Oscars are taking place

like at the end of April or something. I don't remember the exact date, but what really pisses me off about it is that they were like, yeah, and we're also extending the eligibility by like two months. So movies released in like February and March of 2021 will be eligible for the 2020

the Oscars, which I think is fucking stupid and bullshit, because even if like, yeah, whatever, there were a bunch of like big budget Marvel movies that had to get pushed back and stuff due to the pandemic, like, or even some Oscar Beatty, like, studio things. Like, there's no shortage of really great movies that came out in 2020. Like, there's still lots of great fucking shit, you know? And this was evident, like, even as far back as when they announced that they would be extending the eligibility for the Oscars. So I'm really pissed off about that because, like, it really just shows that they're not aware of these smaller movies that are, like, coming out.

Yeah, they just took good. Or that they don't want to give them, like, legitimacy, right? That they have to play the fucking game and have, you know, a big studio campaign for your consideration like fucking Disney does. Like, what's going to wind up happening is, like, Soul's going to get nominated for, like, best picture because they'll be like, well, there were just no other movies that came out. and they'll pretend like it was justified but that really pisses me off because there were tons of great stuff in 2020 you just have to like be somebody that's passionate

about movies which the Academy apparently isn't yeah if you want to win an Academy Award you need an Oscar campaign which costs a lot of money and it's usually Warner Brothers or Disney who can afford that kind of thing and not the small studios so they never get anything and that's why it's like I don't want to say it's rigged but it's it's bullshit

it's not the real best movie of the year and this kind of shows it there's a barrier. Yeah. Everything's like that. Every award's thing. It's gatekeeping. Yeah. They're like out of these movies that are made within the system, this is the best one. Mm-hmm. But not out of the year. Yeah, that's exactly how it feels. Yeah. It's a system. I was looking at the

submission guidelines for the Juno Awards. So like Canadian equivalent of the Grammys. And I don't watch them. I'm not like super familiar with them. Like I don't know. I was thinking like, okay, I released an album. You know, I have somewhat of an online following maybe, you know, if I include that kind of stuff, then I could be considered for like a best new artist nomination or something. You know, it's Canada.

Like, there aren't a lot of things coming out anyway. But then when I was looking through like the actual application process, there are just so many things where it's just like, here's the spot for your, like, agent and your publicist. But, like, it's like they didn't even consider that somebody could be making music that doesn't have an agent or publicist or anything. It's just like, why is there no option for none? It's like, this is really just a fucking club.

And I was, like, kind of disappointing just to see. like yeah even in even for the fucking juno awards this is like some bullshit thing yeah not trying to say like oh yeah i deserve the fucking juno award it was just like you know like how you're supposed to get a credibility if you don't have an agent but to get an agent you need credibility yeah sort of thing good one yeah so it's like it's like you just have to it's hard apply for an agent and get exploited 90% of the time yeah that's basically yeah and hopefully in the long run you'll make money yeah yeah it's a horrible circle joke It's a really annoying system that's set up that really just prioritizes and favors like these.

It's the same thing with like YouTube, you know. Like you're on a network and you have more lines of communication with YouTube as a platform. It's like they just don't like the idea of individual users. I guess it's just the same thing with any sort of arts or entertainment, big business sort of thing. You always have to go through middlemen. It becomes an illustrious club. Yeah. Yeah, especially.

Really annoying. So we also saw another film. It was my recommendation called The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. And I already forget the French title. It was like Le Chandeuille Pépieu or something like that. Yeah. The film is directed by Julian Schnabel. And the reason why I didn't do an attempt at a French accent when reading his name,

is because he actually learned French to make the film. Oh, wow. It was supposed to be an American film first, and he decided, no, this is a French story. I want to tell it in French. Obviously, from the source material being French, he decided the French language, there was so much poetically going into it

that he, you know, it would do it justice if it was in the language that the story was actually told in. Yeah, that's really good. Anyway, this is one of my favorite movies. I watch it every so often. And what did you two think of it, First Time Watchers.

Alex, I don't know what you thought of it. Yeah, it's very impressive. I thought it was very good. Yeah, I thought it was very good. I really enjoyed it a lot. Spoiler discussion. Yeah, spoiler discussion. I heard about this film before from just the opening scene or the opening first 10 minutes,

where it's kind of told from the main character's point of view, like first person. And there's this really interesting effect they do where he's like kind of fading in and out of consciousness. You know, and there's this like distortion of the lens almost. And that's accomplished by, like, they kind of lie. When you put a lens on a camera, you got to like lock it in the place. Yeah, they like shift it. They kind of like just hovered it over the sensor. So there's this distortion that makes it feel like very.

Yeah, and then we learned. I learned about this in school. And they show the scene because it's like one of the most, I think, effective examples of it. It is very effective. Like the way they put you in this guy's perspective. Yeah, it's incredibly purposeful. Yeah. And I think the first 20 minutes of this movie was like absolutely brilliant.

Yeah. And once it gets into the more. it's definitely more kind of conventional the rest of the story how it's told but i still really enjoyed it i just think it's the first 20 minutes that were really still it's hard to beat yeah it's a really high bar it's just it's so creative yeah it really does put you in his perspective and it's so like claustrophobic and the narration and everything it is just such a creative like minimalist way of doing a sequence like that or an idea like that like following through on an idea like that because you say it's it's a

It's quite illuminating you saying about the director learning French and everything and really committing to the story and everything. Because I was shocked that it was based on a real person. Yeah. I somehow missed that. I did like no research before watching the end of the credits. It's like, oh. Yeah. So I was because I assumed it was like, you know, it was fictional.

Yeah, I wasn't super aware of like the story or the book before watching it either. So it's like, yeah. Yeah. I kept thinking this could be one of those stories that could be really Hollywood and lame. And they almost mock it in that scene where he's saying about like, like, because he's a writer himself. So he says, like, I thought of an ending where he's like, oh, I wake up in my bed, but it was all a dream. And he says to, oh, fuck, like this kind of idea. Because that, that, in like, the early sections of the movie, I'm always, like, thinking, like, how based on what they've set up and, like, this first act, how is this going to conclude?

And I always have, like, the worst idea of, like, the worst possible ending and, like, him. Doing that would be the worst ending. So I thought that was funny that it came up. They also had like kind of moments in the editing where they were kind of mocking that sort of thing where it's like the, yeah, like the, that song that was playing was like, don't kiss me goodbye, baby. And it was just like this like really sappyish kind of like almost, it seemed like it was going to go into like a montage and conclude. But then it's just like hard cut back to reality. And then it's just, you know, like, yeah, the hard. This is this is like horrendously depressing.

Oh, oops, this is like, oh, there goes gravity. Yeah, it's a very interesting film considering the main character doesn't move or talk. Oh, yeah. For most of it. And yeah, that's pretty impressive too, the filmmaking techniques he used to keep it interesting. Yeah. And also like the performance that goes into that when you're limited to pretty much just like moving your eye is like. The amount of expression that you're limited to.

Yeah, just doing narration. And Mathieu Emelrig really pulls it off. Like, you can tell, like, there's a moment in the, when his father calls him, and he realizes that that's who's calling. Like, you can see in his eye that he's, like, really upset and, like, emotionally, like, stabbed by it in a way where, like, he wasn't ready for it. And you can tell he's, like, trying not to cry. despite the limitations of what he's able to show as an actor,

but you can see it perfectly. I think that's really impressive. Yeah, that was a great scene, the phone call, and not knowing how to handle communicating with him. And you don't even get much time really with his dad. It's only the shaving scene earlier on, but that's all you need. The actors really carry it through that and just... It's such an extreme scenario.

Like it has so much innate emotion. There's so much drama. in there. I was reading the main change that was made to the story apparently from the real life one is that the woman who was by his side

was more so his lover as opposed to the mother of his child. So I think in reality those roles were switched a bit more. I think the reason they did that is because I guess it does add for the drama and that payoff scene in terms of like the

emotional resonance of it where he's his the the mother of his children has to like translate his blinking into like a love message yeah yeah which is like so it's pretty heavy stuff like going on in this movie the interplay between the characters like it is just a he's like an illustrious man everyone loves him and then it is just one day everything's kind of taken away from him and his inner realization of that that's what i love about the narration and him being a writer too so he can have the that kind that kind of dialogue, you know, the writer's voice where he's so necessary. Yeah, exactly.

A film like this makes you appreciate like your life, like, oh, I can move, I can walk. Yeah. Do all these amazing things. And I think that's the, that's the point of the story in some way. Makes you appreciate your own life. Yeah. Yeah, you don't know what you have until you lose it. So thing, yeah.

Yeah, it isn't, I was actually thinking, like, if this scenario of locked in syndrome and being able to like blink or just move one eye and that's it, if this, had happened to somebody, let's say, current year, there would probably be a better range of more efficient communication because of technology. Because we have eye tracking now. So you could literally just set up, like he could probably be typing out messages independently just by looking at certain places on a keyboard, like a, you know, on a screen or something. Because eye tracking exists, so why not? But like going through that process of I don't really remember when it was set. but obviously probably around the year 2000 or something, something like that, I don't remember. Yeah.

I'd have to look up the actual event. But anyway, yeah, the limitations of, you know, needing somebody to be by your side dictating what you're trying to say and just going through the letters of the alphabet in order of the frequency of use, which is also clever how they were doing that. And I love also that they were touched on like the proper and improper ways to do it. Like his friend shows up and he was like, oh, you're not even looking at me. And, you know, the person.

that's hired on to do it for his book, you can tell that she's reading it slower as she's starting out than the speech therapist that was working with him earlier, you know, at this point in the movie, she's like, uh, out, like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, like she does it so many times she's comfortable with it.

I love that they touched on that in terms of like, what's practically happening for this character. Yeah, it also gets you in with just the little details, like the fly on the nose. That was uncomfortable. Yeah, exactly. that the things that pop into your mind when you empathize with a character like this and imagine yourself in their shoes like it is horrifying but that was another thing I found

kind of impressive about it was the way it was able to balance that tone because it is such a such a bleak story but through the personality of the characters and through that narration it's able to I don't know it's weirdly inspiring and in that way like I didn't come away like heartbroken and like I'd had something wrench from me it was it gave me a different perspective if anything there were funny points for sure there's a lot of yeah yeah relief in the movie yeah that I enjoyed and he's also like I love they kind of give him like this kind of like pervy character too you know like I don't know how much of this was like in his in the real person's book right so maybe like there was a bit of that kind of like cheekiness also yeah you never

know if that well I mean you could know just by reading the book but I ain't got time for that. So I don't know how much of that is true from the actual real-life character versus what they put in the film. Yeah, it's also reinforced a bit, too, in the dad's scene with the shaving, they're talking about the escapades, aren't they, with the lovers. You know, all their affairs they've had. Yeah.

Yeah. A big conflict in his life was, like, all the relationships he had with these different women. Mm-hmm. And, yeah, the drama was only escalated by. The tragedy. I will say that one criticism I do have of the film is that the amount of women in his life, these characters, a lot of them look kind of similar. And so if this is like your first time watching it, it's like a bit more confusing.

I don't know if you guys felt that way at all. But I feel like there was a lot going on. Like there's a lot of these characters and they all have like very. Yeah, I did feel that. Maybe. But I also felt that was kind of the point. Like maybe that was his type. The film doesn't like super explicitly like hammer down what exactly each one of their relationships is like in a super clear way.

Like you kind of have to figure it out by watching at some points, but or just like, you know, paying more attention. Did you feel the same way too? I guess. Some way. Yeah. There's definitely a lot of conflict going on with the women in his life. I didn't take it as pervy as much as like, you know, he was a man locked in his body. and all these sexual urges he had, like, couldn't be fulfilled.

And I found it quite funny. Like, you know, he just couldn't ever continue with these kind of romantic relationships he had. It would only go to a certain point. This was left in the question thread, but I won't ask the question associated for it, but it's just an observation by Assad. Basic Lurker said, The Diving Bell in the Butterfly has very specific instances of green and blue that visually express the main character's mindset.

Green will often reflect moments of positivity and healing, while blue seems to demonstrate moments of negativity, distress, confusion, or apprehension. The main metaphor in the film is that of a diving bell sinking to the bottom of the sea, with the main character trapped inside. As it follows, water, especially in large bodies, contend to be greener towards the surface by virtue of sunlight and darker blues as you get further into the depths. and totally over the moon

that you guys are talking about this film and it is really interesting in the way it uses the colors to accentuate that claustrophobic view So they got the icebergs too Yeah yeah exactly too Yeah I just thought that was a nice comment

Yeah the icebergs were cool I love the way the film ended too I know it's a It was just very sudden Yeah They're reversing And the yeah The reversing of the iceberg footage

And just the way it's just kind of stop Yeah. You don't need much more at that point. Because you don't want to force it to go into a direction that would be really lame. But it leaves you wanting more. You're like, oh, that's it. And that's a good feeling, I think. Then like, will this fucking end already?

Like, you know, 10 minutes before the movie's over. Yeah. I really liked the score and the music choices for the soundtrack too. I feel like it was all really appropriate. Very interesting. Yeah, I love the credit song. That was one I already knew. Oh, yeah?

Yeah, I chose Strumma. Mm. Do you think there was much reason for those song choices? Because some of them I weren't too crazy about. Some of them were kind of cool. I don't know. I felt like it was fitting. I felt like it was appropriate for the most part.

I don't know. Nothing really took me out in terms of the song choices. I feel like the opening scene, I don't know if the song is just called La Meo, or whatever it is, but like that super old, especially with the visuals of the opening titles. I've just like really, it kind of gave me like an uncomfortable. comfortable almost like how Lars von Trier does his opening title sequences sometimes you know sure where it's just like kind of like eerie and creepy which I kind of like I really like juxtaposed emotions in a way where it's like the song is kind of you know yeah on its own the song is like kind of like a little

happyish you know there's nothing sad about the song but just because of how it's used it's you know there's there's some negative emotion to it that's kind of brought out by it existing at the same time That makes sense. Mm-hmm. It makes sense. I always felt like I was locked in his experience, even when the camera wasn't directly his POV. And like even the music choices, I felt like it was his kind of imagination.

What they make a point of his imagination. Oh, yeah. Like just kind of filling in the soundtrack for his own movie with songs he likes, you know? And in that way, I thought the song choices were appropriate. True. Like every kind of element of the movie was his kind of journey. Mm-hmm. So as we were saying, like, the first 20 minutes of the,

this film are like really hard to beat like the first act um it's a great like short film awesome but i wonder like if let's say if let's say somebody wanted to make the entire movie like that i wonder what that would be like you know it might be a bit much it's like enter the void well here's the question is would it be too much by the end of it i guess or like how would they do a lot of like practical maybe enter the void's a good example to bring up i guess But, I mean, you're also, like, kind of amnicient in that movie, too. Weirdly enough, um... Yeah, that movie gets very trippy.

The British sitcom peep show. Oh, yeah? Like, the gimmick of the show is that it's from the perspective of, like, the characters, so they'll have, like, a camera strapped to their head. So it was weirdly reminding me of that at first, but that was, like, a problem with the first season of that show. It's, like, a kind of outlier idea, so it did feel a bit much. Because every episode, like, every shot was, like, a point of view from the characters.

shot like strapped to their heads so yeah i i don't know if it would really work filling out for the whole movie i actually love the way it like broke up the pace going to different scenes and the variation of stuff a real great like showing instead of telling with all those kind of dreams and descriptions of things it's yeah really made the most of it yeah it was very very poetic overall and also really really great editing this is one of those where it's like the editing is also like super noticeable but it's like it works for what it's doing yeah you know like as mentioned before, like, there are a few points where, like, the music does, like, the hard cut, which I really like, especially for this type of film.

Yeah, yeah. It's trying to balance these different emotions. Oh, yeah, there was that really great transition where he blinked for yes when he was learning, like, the yes and no commands from his perspective. And, like, the blink covers the screen, and then when the eye opens, it's like, he was answering the question, are you the editor for the magazine L? And he blinked once for yes, and then the eyelid opens. it's like from behind his head in the past now and it goes into that scene where he's like yes it was

the you know now it's a flashback for him as the editor for the magazine l it's like that was not only very creative in terms of how it was done visually but like at that moment in the story also where it's like oh you're transitioning this is his memory you know like we are still inside his head technically kind of yeah yeah that's a good point really really purposeful and well thought out totally How did they do the shot with the doctor sewing up the eye? Oh, that's just like a... Oh, yeah, that was sick. They used like a prosthetic.

Yeah, prosthetic, you know, something looks like an eyelid or whatever. Yeah, I loved that. Yeah. That was awesome. It's like really grody in a way. It's like really uncomfortable, but I mean, that's a good thing. That's what makes it work. You want to, you know, the film wants to communicate how this person felt as these things

were happening, right? And that must have been terrifying. That must have been really gross and just like super uncomfortable, especially with him not being able to communicate that he didn't want this to happen. But, you know, unfortunately, that was a necessity. Otherwise, the eye would just like, fucking dry out and get infected. You know, they had to close it up. It wasn't receiving any kind of like muscle commands from the brain. So. Yeah. And just the tactical way they kind of avoid showing the main character's face for such a long time. It's these extreme close-ups on his eyes. I was just about to say that. Yeah. Oh, is that what you were going to say. Yeah. No, I really liked that.

I did tell. Because it starts like you know nothing. You absolutely know nothing. But by the end, you know everything about this guy. Yeah. Like basically everything he's done in his life, all of his biggest relationships, as kids and everything. The event itself, how it goes down.

It does get broader. It's awesome. And you get to experience the reveal of his face with him because he doesn't know what his face looks like in that condition after the accident. Yeah, the reflections. And so, like, as he's being. wheeled through and he sees it, you know, like, at no point where the doctor's being like, holding up a mirror like, hey, you want to see what you're like, that didn't happen. But because of

circumstance, just because of the reflection on the cabinets or whatever that was, you know, he winds up seeing it as a corner of his eye as he's being wheeled by. And you see it exactly from his perspective. And it is kind of like a jarring like moment, not just to be like, it's less of a, oh, that person looks weird sort of like thing. And more of a, uh, because that's from your perspective, like your understanding, like, he knows he didn't look like that before. And he's saying in his own mind, he's saying, like, is that me? Like, is this who I am now sort of thing?

It's just like a really, really well done, super well thought out, purposeful decision that really helps the movie. It's all about the experience. It's like you're experiencing it with the character, which I, it's, that's a great goal to have in mind, I feel. You know, not just for this film, but like so many films. It's like experiencing something with the character. If this is who you're supposed to be relating with it at this moment in time in the film, then why not? You know, have the audience experience something in the same way that the character would.

Yeah, absolutely. I love the scene where he first gets the idea to, like, follow through on his book contract, and they call the publisher. I think that's, like, one of the most, like, funniest, like, satisfying scenes for me. It's because she was like, I guess technically you have a contract for another book. He's like, yeah, I'm going to do it. Even though he can't say anything,

and it's just the speech therapist saying it. And I love how the person she sends to dictate the book for him is literally just the first person that sat down in her office. It's just like, oh, I've got the perfect person for you. I love that little, you know, just visual kind of humor there. What's the lead actor's name? Mathieu, so like Matthew and then Amtia. A-M-A-L-R-I-C, I think, or MLR-R-R-R-I-C.

Yeah, yeah, she was very good. Oh, he's awesome. Yeah, he was amazing. We saw him in Sound of Metal recently, which is kind of similar. I noticed in a lot of ways, you know, character learning. Oh, yeah. Very similar. A lot of, you know, coming to terms with yourself and maybe a handicap.

Yeah, yeah, there's a few different takes on this, I guess, general idea in a movie. There's a few different movies about this. This is a very strong one. Absolutely. Yeah, I guess that's also like kind of why when we were thinking of sound of metal, I brought up that idea. I was like, oh, what if all of it was like, you know, from his perspective? Because I really love the idea of shooting something from someone's perspective,

especially if they're going through this kind of turmoil, this kind of experience where like, you can't just show them doing it. You have to bring it into their perspective at some points in the film at least, you know? Like, that's absolutely necessary. Otherwise, people won't have any idea what's going on, really. It's like nothing to connect it to and nothing to compare it to. Awesome movie. And yeah, the director credit on this, so in the opening titles, it just said a film by Julian Schnebel.

And then on IMDB, it says also Laura Obiel. I don't know how to pronounce her name. But then it also said that she's credited as creative director. And so she's like, it looks like she's doing a lot of creative director roles. They're not necessarily the director, but yeah. On I Daniel Blake, she's credited as movement director, which I don't know exactly what that. Yeah, I don't know what that is.

That's what she's credited as. She works on a couple different things. Maybe she was a big part in the crazy out there perspective. Yeah, yeah, I'd like to... Because that would take a lot of testing when they'd have to, like, get that to work. Yeah. And also, I don't know, so I've seen, I think, one... other movie from

Julian Schnebel at Eternity's Gate supposedly before Night Falls is really good that's on my watch list but yeah at Eternity's Gate was the one that was nominated for acting from Willem DeFoe where he played Vincent Van Gogh and a lot of like

just watching that what's happening visually I'm like oh yeah this is the same director as Diving Bell in the Butterfly like it's really clear like he's got he's got some like weird personality when it comes to how he's showing his film visually. So that much is consistent for sure.

But yeah, I'd like to see more from him anyway. Would you recommend Atternities Gate? I mean as check it out. I gave it a six. So positive experience overall, it's not going to make my list. It's not something that I'm going to remember a lot. But I would say it was worth watching. It's one.

The foe. And I love The foe, obviously. Okay. Yeah, well, on the foe. He's got a great cast. Fond of me lobster. Yeah. I am quite fond of his lobster.

Oh, God, yeah. We have to mention the scene where he's driving and the attack happens, you know. Like, that part was fucking, even, it doesn't even matter how many times I watched the film. Like, that sequence is just, like, terrifying. And I love that they didn't show it until, like, near the end of the movie. Like, they could have shown that at the beginning, but I think it's, you know, just so many instances in this movie where the restraint of when they decided to show things and how they decided to show things and, you know, just generally the order is just, it plays such an important role in the overall experience of this film. Yeah.

And the performance as well. It's so convincing. Yeah. Yeah, that's really heartbreaking that movie. Genuinely terrifying. Damn, this director doesn't actually have that many movies under his belt. It's got like six or seven. Oh, one, two, three.

I'd like to see more. Six, including a documentary. Well, I guess I'll check out some other ones. What would you rate this if we want to get to ratings? Sure. Diving Bell and the Butterfly. I mean, I have it at a 10. There are some things that I have issues with.

Like, there are some mild criticisms I have of it. But, like, I just think it's so... It's something that I'm going to keep watching forever. It's something that has a very... very huge impression on me and I'll always remember. It feels like one of those important films, you know, that just should be remembered as a classic. And so, yeah, I have it as a 10 out of 10 personally. Hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. I've got this pretty high in my mind. You know, when I was describing like what I wanted from Seoul on the last episode, kind of what I got with this movie. Oh, yeah. The story about appreciating life and the main character. he goes at the end and, you know, it's more consistent.

It's crazy what you can do when your movie's not for kids. Yeah, I just, I think it just really explored this idea extremely well, in a very empathetic way, covered all aspects of it from, you know, the spirituality side and just the, that scene where he, his first learning to kind of translate and spell with the blinking. And he spells out that he's like wants to die. Oh, yeah. Early on, like, that's a horrifying, like, moment. And he does kind of learn, there's, like, so many, like, ups and downs with him coming

to terms with it and, like, almost convincing himself that he's, you might, like, make it through and he has the hope that you might overcome it. And there's all the great quotes, like, cling to your own humanity and you'll survive and all this kind of stuff. There's a lot to think about it. It was way deeper than I was expecting from the premise. and yeah, I really like this from my first viewing. I'd give it a 9 out of 10.

When he decided to stop pitying himself and just, you know, take come to terms of the situation, I think that made him a really likable character too. I get why you guys rated it high. I really liked it too. Very purposeful, like you said. It doesn't feel like an Oscar Beatty kind of movie. I just wish, I love the first 20 minutes,

and the rest of the film wasn't as strong for me, which is why I'd give it a 4 out of 5. But I thought it was really good and very powerful by the end of it. I think. Yeah. Was it 20 minutes or more like 40? It was like the first act. It was like the first third.

I don't know. However long, we were just locked into his perspective. Yeah. Loved it. Awesome, movie. Very memorable. All right. Yeah, awesome.

Right. Let's do some questions from the Sardonicast community then. If you want to leave your own, head over to the Sardonicast subreddit, or there be a suggestion thread. You can ask, what have you feel like? Oh, I just saw the name of the first predator we're going to answer. The turd muncher has one for us. Nice.

Do you guys think movies should have intermissions? Would the movie experience benefit from letting viewers get a bathroom break slash snack refill slash water? Would it ruin the pacing of the film? I would say, no, no intermissions. And it ruins the pacing of the film. I feel like that's what TV shows are now, you know? Like they have like a little intermission.

You don't have to watch the whole thing. Yeah. I mostly agree, but my problem is when films start getting over a certain length. Yeah, four hours plus. Yeah, I would say two and a half hours. Yeah. If you start going over that, yeah. If you are like a four hour epic, I do feel like an intermission should be in there.

Hmm. That would be the most comfortable thing for me. It was a thing, you know, like fucking 2000-1 of Space Odyssey had an intermission, you know. Yeah, I remember it growing up. I remember seeing, yeah, the Harry Potter movies right here and, like, had them. The Harry Potter movies had intermissions. Yeah, yeah, when I used to see them as a kid. Yeah, the thing is, 2001 isn't even that long.

I mean, it's over two hours, but it's not like a three and a half hour long. The Harry Potter movies had intermissions? I didn't even know that. Yeah, I remember seeing the one with the Basilisk, whatever year that was 2002, maybe. I don't know which one that is. Yeah, it had an intermission. Yeah. The Lord of the Rings have intermission?

Fucking Titanic? No, not when I saw a lot of the rings I didn't. Damn, I don't remember having any intermissions for like movies when I watched like a decent amount of movies growing up too. I think it depends on the country because there was someone replying to this thread saying

this is blurry face 29. From where I'm from in India, movies do have intermission and most of the movies are directed and paste in a way that it's designed to have a cliffhanger. Oh, yeah. TV shows before the intermission,

which is fine, I guess. but when I watch English movies in theater, it does feel abrupt when they pause the movie suddenly for the intermission. While watching Hereditary, the brother comes home after the... Can I say this without? Spoilers for Hereditary! Yeah, from the brother scene after the incident, and you can start to hear the crying of Tony Collette,

and then it cuts to intermission. Oh, wow. Yeah, I could see that being good, but I don't think Hereditary is a movie that needs an intermission. Yeah, it's only an hour and a half, right? Oh, wait, no, it's two hours. It just feels like an hour and a half. Yeah, it's probably about two hours.

I remember this discussion last coming up around when the Irishman came out And that's another one where I say I have to like tactically decide what I'm like how much water I'm gonna drink and stuff depending on the length of the movie That's a movie you watch it. It's a Netflix thing you can posit Yeah I suppose that's a bad example because I did see that in a theater I saw that in a theater all at once and I really enjoyed it I feel a huge part of film is pacing and that you should watch it all at once I'm like a lynch, a conservative, whatever. Like, you've got to watch the movie all at once to get the full kind of package. What if you have a bladder problem, Ralph?

Yeah, man. That's true. You can just pause the movie. Yeah, I pee a lot. I feel of piss over here. Well, obviously, you have, like, some kind of human need to go to the bathroom. Yeah, go to the bathroom. Bring a bottle.

Yeah, it should be made to be watched all at once. Because I think that's really cool. I love being sucked into a world for two and a half hours. and then just, you know, coming out of it. I think that's much more fun. I know what you're saying. I feel as though it depends on what's happening in the film. If they're like fucking climax, you can't pause.

You can't pause that movie. Yeah. Especially after a certain point. Enter the Void, you know, it should be all like one thing. But there are certain movies where like even if there's like a lot going on sequentially and it feels like a big, you know, like a greater part of. some epic or whatever. There are parts with some downtime,

you know, like the transitions from one scene to the next, if it's like hard cut to black, there's no music or anything, there's something just got resolved in the storyline and it's about to pick up back on some other characters that we forgot about, basically.

It's like, this might as well be like a new episode of like a fucking miniseries or something, right? I feel like there are places where you can pause movies and pee without it really like negatively impacting the experience. And it also depends on the type of person. like if you're easily distracted, I guess, or I don't know. Like, I feel like I'm able to get sucked back into it when I resume. Sure.

There was also a time home releases VHS tape couldn't fit a whole long movie. So it would be like two. Yeah, so it was basically like an intermission where you'd have to swap out the tape. Double VHS. Goodfellas or casino or anything like that. Yeah, it's just too long. But that's interesting. I guess it just depends on the experience and what you're looking for.

But I prefer all at once. that's the way I like watching films I don't think intermissions need to be added into movies really but I don't have anything against them if a director wants it to be there yeah I just think about like I watched

the new Wonder Woman the other day oh yeah how was that I thought it was absolutely like dreadful I thought it was fucking abysmal I just like hearing people talk about it but it's like two and a half hours long for some reason I don't want to sit there for two of

two and a half hours without. Yeah, if it's a bad movie, you're going to want to pause all the time. Yeah. Even like on the superhero train, like when that Last Avengers movie came out, it was close to like four hours long. And I feel like you could have easily built in like an intermission in that. And it could have like built hype in the story or whatever. And there are ways to do it.

But I guess they want to, they don't, they probably don't want to do intermissions because then you can show the film less times in the day or something. Probably adds a few hours. Yeah, it takes a lot of time. Also, I don't know. If I was watching something in a theater, as much as it's like cool, everybody has time to use the bathroom, it's like, not really. Even if you do 15 or 20 minutes, like there will be a lineup. Like, not everybody will be able to get in.

And then some people will get back in late. And then it's just like, okay, now you're watching parts that are like well into the story of the movie. And people are just like finding their seats every like couple minutes. And it's like, that's kind of distracting, you know. Yeah. Yeah, that isn't I. Get that over with in the first fucking five minutes in the movie. There's positives.

negatives to it. Yeah, yeah. Seeing 2001 and having that 15-minute intermission, people would go out to like the concession area and just talk about the movie. You know, like, what are you getting out of it so far? And that was kind of interesting. Yeah, I think that's just what I romanticized. I can see like an Avengers movie, like people just talking about like, man, Iron Man. The story's great so far. Yeah. Like theater still does it. Yeah, it is cool to be halfway through a story. It's just what you want. I'm not opposed to an intermission. at all. If a director wants it.

Okay. Uzair Little Bear has one for us. Could you guys explain what you mean when you criticize a film for being manipulative? I hear this a lot whenever Adam talks about Pixar and Alex talks about illumination. Isn't the goal of most filmmakers to manipulate the viewer watching into caring for the characters and events happening on screen? Seems a bit contradictory. There's a difference between being a nice person because you know that other people will be nice to you back, versus intentionally lying to someone and being, like,

this applies to real life too with how you interact with people, right? There's a difference between just like being a nice guy and people will be nice back to you, versus like, I'm going to like completely lie and like pull this person's strings like fucking in being John Malkovich, you know, the main character is being manipulated by, yeah,

Catherine Keener and being John Malkovich is like incredibly manipulative. Because it's not genuine, right? That's what makes something manipulative. And so when I criticize a Pixar movie for doing something like that, it's about how like transparent and obvious it's being. It's the difference between like, I want emotions and a film to be earned. So an example of manipulative filmmaking is taking a scene that would otherwise be really not all that emotional. But then you add that like tiny little high register piano like music with like a tiny bit of strings.

It's like, a character's dying. Oh no. like, but it's it's, you know, fucking slow death where it's like in their arms, but it's like, these emotions aren't really earned. You're just using music to manipulate people in that way. And in many Pixar movies, it's like the music isn't even the worst part about it. It's just how they're writing the story. It's like by committee.

It's literally just like a corporation has figured out how enough people, not everybody, but enough people to sell their movie will react emotionally to certain cues on a checklist of things that they can add into their movie. It's no longer a story that's being told by somebody who's passionate about a story they want to tell and had a really great idea and wants to like communicate something about the darkest parts of their soul. It's like a film made by fucking committee and that's what I mean. Basically what you said, but I would actually flip it where I would describe illumination that way.

Yeah. And I would say Pixar's like the opposite example. I don't watch illuminate. I have no point of reference for that. Yeah. I don't know if I've sat through a single one. You know, all the things that annoy about Pixar movies, it's like that on steroids in these illumination movies. There's not even like really an attempt to like genuinely tell some kind of story, whereas at least you can point to Pixar and be like, Coco.

You know, that's a cool idea. Soul, ambitious idea. Yeah. What ambition or like story nugget is there for the minions movie, you know? That is like a boardroom. Yeah. This thing is popular. Yeah, of course.

we need to create some bullshit like plug-in and they have like their bag of tricks they always do they always have like little kiddie characters and they really over-animate the cuteness and all this kind of shit it's just once you see through the formula and see how illumination does this thing where they have these like B plots that just they're they're completely pointless and they're just about like either manipulating the parent or the kid in some way and it's like so obvious I would like to clarify. that when I make these criticisms against Pixar, I'm not saying that there's literally nobody on their writing team or involved in the production of the film that has any kind of ideas that they want to communicate that are personal to them. Like obviously in Seoul, Coco, in any of their films,

there's somebody on board that's like, oh yeah, I have this idea, it's personal to me. Like the nugget, the spirit of the idea has to come from somewhere. It's just a matter of whether or not that eventually gets molded into this factory product, right? Yes, the machine.

So, like, it can start somewhere and there can be people on board that are like, you know, it's genuine to them. But at the end of the day, it's got to sell, it's got to sell toys, it's got to appeal to kids. You know, you can't have the character die at the end, you know, stuff like that. It's just a matter of, like, how much it's molded into this, really. Anyway. Yeah, I think you said it just how notes bill it is too. Yeah, when it's obvious.

If you're able to get me on board with your story. because you're just a great storyteller or filmmaker or you're doing something fresh and new. It's like the Turing test. Yeah. It's like was this made by a robot or a human? Yeah. All these big budget movies have to like ride the line on the,

just the reality of the money side of it, like it is a part of it. And when that line gets blurred in the direction of illumination is when I start getting like really annoyed. Yeah. It's just like, where is even the, you're like forgetting about the storytelling part. It's like not even about that anymore. It's just about, like.

Because there is no story. It's just a series of dumb scenes. And then I guess they get around to the third act and they're like, this is when it's supposed to be emotional. We technically have to make a movie, don't we? Yeah. We have to hit the plot points, but it's not about reaching those plot points naturally. And I guess that's what I would call manipulative. Yeah.

Yeah. It's got like no heart. Uh-huh. There's nothing under the surface, you know. Got to check off those items. Yeah, yeah. And they're especially bad because they take like Dr. Zeus books. Oh, yeah.

And whatever. Mm-hmm. You know, which do have like a heart to them. And somehow they managed to fuck that up. Yeah. In the translation. True. Majorly.

Yeah, I don't know if I've seen a single elimination film, honestly. You didn't even watch Lorax for the memes. No. Some reason that was the one that like caught on with the meme. Because it's got it has like, it's a musical for some reason. Oh. So it has a bunch of, like, really bad pop songs and stuff. Oh, no.

The people have really attached themselves to. And, like, Stan. And there's, like, a whole deviant art community, this obsessive, like, other characters. Did you say Stan? Yeah. Yeah, they, like, Stan, um, the Onsler, I think it's called. Oh, okay. I thought, when you said pop songs, I thought you said they, like, made a rendition of Eminem Stan.

And I was like, that's in the Lorax? How did they work that into? it now that would be a movie yeah and like the the the product placement thing is just the the funniest like that's kind of funny too like satire is dead stuff with the yeah it's like the four by fours like because that's like conflicting with like the message in a way yeah the full by fours is with the laurx on them and stuff like that it's just that's so funny you just let me see list of illumination movies you got hop you got the minnions movies They do. Horn, here's a home?

That might have been a different studio. The Life of Pets. Holy fuck. They did Life of Pats. Yeah. I never saw those. The second one is like, actually. Yeah.

I've seen zero illumination films. I think I'm going to keep that street going. Yeah. No, I think that... I'm not tempted. As far as there's constant, like, trash animation coming out, but there's none that are as successful as illumination. I guess that's what bothers me about it.

Yeah. You know? They found, they found the way to do it. Yep. So Despickel of Me was like their first one. Yeah, that one was successful. And it's not even that bad of a movie. It's just kind of standard kids movie fair.

Yeah. It wasn't until the second one that it got really bad. And then Minions, like you said, Alex, pointless subplots. Yeah. Hop was just like too far. Yeah. You've taken it too far. Oh my God.

The Minions movie had a worldwide gross of $1.159 billion. That's so good. Yeah, people love that cute stuff. Yeah, I guess that's the part that it irks me. Billion dollar movie minions. Mine. It just has no... It's like, got no story.

Like, what is that movie about, Ralph? They don't spend that much. No, they don't. None of their budgets are over 80 million out of all of their films. This is part of it. Yeah, no, the minions are designed in a way to be cheap to animate. That's why, yeah. And copy and paste a lot of the same character model, too.

Yeah. Yeah, they're reusing. assets all the time. You see it in the background. That's amazing. Houses and cars. Yeah, it's so strategic. You know, good for them. Good for them. I'm not even mad. If they want to be like fucking business geniuses like Jason Blum, you know, like fucking do it. I'm not watching these movies. Nobody's forcing

me to. Do you think the anime is a compensated for this? Oh, that's true. Yeah, maybe they should get a bit more of the pie. That's very true. Yeah, I'd like to see the breakdown of that. Where all that fucking money's going. As said by Ralph Seppie earlier in this episode, Capitalism Quote Ralph Fiffy Yeah that's me

That's the way it works Yeah Okay let's do this one from Alfred Berta What event from 2020 do you want to see as a film Or as a person who lived through these events Do you not want to see How these events are going to be portrayed in films There's so many things that happen in 2020

Is there a Wikipedia list of everything that happened in 2020? because there's a lot. I'm like, I'm going to be missing some of the, holy shit. I wonder how movies are going to tackle, like the mask thing, you know?

Everyone's just walking around masks on. Like, if you make a movie set in 2020, is everyone going to walk around with masks on or without masks? Because it would be realistic for them to be wearing masks,

but... Yeah, depending on if it's in a small town, no, and if it's in a big city, then fucking 60% of people. If it's in Florida, then no. In Florida, no one wears masks if the movie's set there.

Yeah. I mean, there would be no good reason to set your film in 2020 unless you're specifically making it about the pandemic or you know like a period piece on other events that happened during the pandemic so I was thinking all last year the best thing to do would probably be to make a period piece or make something on the future we're just like fictional don't try to don't try to make 2020 into a thing yeah don't make this a thing unless you want to make it like a contagion kind of movie maybe that'd be interesting in like 2020 yeah there's a lot of shit that happened

in 2020 despite the pandemic. I'm just trying to remember everything. There was like Kobe death at the beginning. They're already making like COVID movies. Isn't Michael Bay making a COVID kind of movie? No, he produced it and it's not COVID and it's stupid. I think it's already out. It's like some dumb, yeah, somebody else directed it and he just slapped his name on it

and it looks really stupid and it's already out and nobody paid attention. Like nobody needs to see it. I forget what that was called though. It looked super fucking low production value. I bet there is a list of notable events in 2020. I'm actually going to search it. I've got one, but it's none of the obvious ones. Oh, shit.

Yeah. At some point in 2020, they rediscovered the true form of the Spinosaurus. So I'd be interested in seeing behind the scenes of that. Maybe there's some story. I know the dinosaur community is pretty hot and bothered. They like fighting. I'm sure there's some, like, great bone war tier story to be told. Yeah.

Okay, there's a couple interesting ones. There's a New York Post article on 2020 major events. The Harvey Weinstein verdict, that could be, like, interesting. Oh, shit, yeah. Get fucking some random actor to put on a bunch of makeup and win the Oscar, you know, play Harvey Weinstein. That's one I'd want a documentary more. Yeah, yeah, probably. True, true.

But I guess that's also technically a film. Yeah, true. You could make a really, really good comedy off of, like, the Kim Jong-un death rumors. And have, like, a movie about, like, like, Kim Jong-un dying and them putting out doubles and, like, pretending he's not dead. If that's what happened, nobody really knows right now. Do you remember the last time they tried that in a big comedy? Oh, yeah.

The interview? Yeah, but, I mean, I would. When I think good comedy, I don't mean. ones that like Seth Rogan's involved in, you know. I'm thinking of like good in my version of good. Fuck Epstein shit, Gisley and Maxwell.

All that shit going on. Oh my God. Yeah. Isn't that more 2019? No. I mean it's, I mean, kind of yes, but like the Maxwell stuff is 2020 for sure. That's true. Okay. I can definitely picture a bunch of events being told

in like really crass stories. Oh yeah. There's a lot of ways it could go wrong. Oh, yeah. It always just depends on who's behind it and what kind of intentions they have going into it. Yeah, the motive. Yeah.

The purge is a good 2020 movie, although that came out like years ago. Yeah, I don't know. If I can talk about Trump getting COVID and make a movie about all the crazy drugs he took. Yeah, his secret drugs. Regener on. Yeah.

Fucking baby fetuses. Bantanic prayers. I just kind of want to forget about 2020 as quickly as possible, you know. Done. Just move on. Yeah. It's already behind me. I just headed my house the whole year.

Yeah, me too. I don't know what happened. Still there. Cinema Goal 17 has one for us. Thoughts on a new upcoming Aronowski film. Hell yeah. As Brendan Fraser, as a 600-pound man secluded from the world, slowly eating himself alive, it's called The Whale.

Hyped. Yeah. Sounds so intriguing. Yeah. I was reading the, on IMDB, its current story. It did sound very similar to the wrestler, but obviously the context is very different. The characters involved, so we'll see how it turns out.

Yeah, I was, you know, just hearing about, like, the actor and director and basic plot synopsis, I was thinking kind of something similar to the wrestler. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really curious to see if Brendan Fraser can pull out. I'm glad he's making another movie. movie. After Mother, I'm glad he got money. I haven't seen him in a while. I saw him in The Poison Rose, which was like some straight to VOD movie with John Travolta, and that was

pretty bad. But I'm glad he's like found a real role again, you know. I feel like he could be good. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'd like to see him in something really good. Like, does he have any, like, Georgia the jungle? What, what is it of Brendan Fraser's standout? The mummy, obviously. The mummy. The mummy. Fucking. Was he in crash? I think he was in crash. I don't know. He's, uh, ask fucking moist critical Charlie.

He's, I'm sure he's got like, uh, framed pictures of every one of Brendan Frazier's movies on his wall. I immediately told him about the news when I found out. He said it was fantastic news. Anyway, I trust the director enough to be able to get something good out of Brendan Frazier, even if I don't think Brendan Fraser is a, a, amazing actor independently of other help, you know? Yeah.

If he's being cast for it, then obviously Aronofsky sees something in him. Yeah, this is one where the casting really has my eye. It's like, how is this thing to come together? It wouldn't be like as huge of a story otherwise. Or I don't even know if this is a huge story, but like it's intriguing me. Like this is, I'm hyped for it. I'm very excited to see it. Yeah.

Good for Brendan Frazier. You know why his like His Hollywood career kind of It didn't end but he stepped away from Hollywood for a few years Yeah I've kind of fucked up He heard something tragic but I don't remember Apparently by the former president of like HFPA Oh yeah?

Yeah it's pretty pretty fucked up Really? Yeah and that like put him off for a while But I'm glad like he's coming back in like a real film That actually has me kind of excited to like see him again Yeah I'd yeah I skimmed through his IMDB Like he never stopped acting per se

I mean like he's he's just in a bunch of like really smaller like he's in some TV show yeah much smaller scale like I poison rose like those kinds of things yeah he wouldn't get big gigs like the mummy anymore yeah I think that I think that affected his career yeah it was like a real big movie stuff for a time

yeah yeah it shows you kind of how Hollywood is how fucked up it is yeah yeah I don't know it's like you could say the same thing about Michael Keaton you know just some people just slowly kind of disappear because I don't know, maybe they get like a couple movies

in a row that just didn't do great financially. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then the studio's like, well, I guess that means that nobody wants to see them anymore. Like you can say the same thing about Nicholas Cage, but now he's like doing a comeback. Same with Keanu, where it's like, just because of the rules that they're in,

like people cast them for these like shlocky kind of like horror action things that people are like, oh yeah, of course I want to keep seeing this person in movies, you know, move towards lower budget things, but now those are just doing incredibly well financially. Yeah. And then Keanu goes into cyberpunk.

Yeah. Uh, Jay has one for us. Well, boys, I wanted to know what your thoughts on HBO's Euphoria is. You slated, cringy OTT teen shows like 13 reasons, but I think Euphoria represents the youth in a much better way and a stunning visuals. Well, I just finished it on Saturday.

It's awesome. Mm-hmm. Ralph, did you see it? I watched one episode. Very interesting. And I love Sydney Sweeney. Oh, I don't know who that is. I guess I'll look at it.

I really wished I'd seen it before watching the last season of 13 reasons why, because it is such a good show to contrast of like, oh, this is how you kind of do this in a much more creative, original way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the presentation of it is so, like, frenetic and it really, like, captures the, the, their age range much better with the music choices and just like what they're saying. The camera work is really cool. Oh, I love the cinematography.

That's like one of the my favorite parts. Yeah, and the lighting too. Yeah, that's my favorite part of it. It's how it's presented. Yeah, this isn't really a spoiler, but like every single episode opens up with like this sequence of narration, voiceover, and just so much energy and it's so quick and you're getting so many different locations and scenarios. focusing on like one character at a time,

basically fleshing out their backstory before the real plot of the episode begins every time. And it's like, man, I would love to see more of that. I love those types of things. It's such a good idea. And the camera work is just so impressive the way that they transition from one shot to the next and just like so much energy in the music

and like it's got such a great vibe to it. I really love it. Yeah, that intro thing is such a good idea. because you really keep track of the characters too because it's quite an ensemble cast There's a lot going on So having you like learn The group gets like fleshed out more

As the episodes go on and you get those those intros And they're like oh who you're going to get this time It's really exciting Yeah yeah great show It's a very sensible way to flesh out these characters When if you try to incorporate These exact same bits of information Into like the actual story of any given episode

by either dialogue or flashbacks. Like that might just seem like a little bit clunky, but because of how it's structured, and it's like, okay, well, this little intro is just dedicated time for that. And it doesn't seem out of place. It's almost kind of like weirdly omniscient in a way, you know, with the narration coming from the main character who a lot of these things like, you know, she probably wouldn't know.

But it works really well. I love it. There's a lot of great stuff going on in the show. And you can tell the series creator, Sam, Levinson you can tell it's like a really personal project for him you can it's so obvious that there's so much of himself in the story and the characters that he's written yeah i'd seen one of his films assassination nation which i noticed was very similar in like film and how it tackled like the youth of america kind of yeah so that movie's about like a bunch of like teenage girls

and they like start shooting up their fucking you know neighborhood and it's about like social media Yeah, I didn't see that it looked kind of bad Yeah, it's okay, it's definitely It's out there And there's some elements I really like to it But euphoria, I feel, euphoria is definitely better at tackling those kinds of things It's a little more subtle, a little more realistic

Yeah Zendaya is very good in it too I've never seen her like actually act Zend die Yeah, yeah She's a really good main character I know, I was so happy to see her do something That wasn't Spider-Man

I was like, whoa, okay great Yeah, I'd only see her in Spider-Man And like she did this show on Disney Channel like 10 years ago. Yeah, like it's actually seared like she's in a real role. It's like, oh, she's actually pretty good. She's great. Yeah. Very fitting for the role.

She pulls it off perfectly. Perfect. Like a loose main character. Yeah. Everyone's very believable in their part. Mm-hmm. Which, you know, it's like a high school kind of drama. I think that helps.

Yeah. It's like it's so great at capturing like current youth sort of. sort of idea. Yeah, just think of 13 reasons why, like, compared to that shit. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, it makes it even funnier. Well, because they incorporate things like, you know, so many times in the show, this isn't really a spoiler, but like certain characters at different points, it's like, people just share each other's nudes all the time. And, you know, sometimes it's like a bigger deal. Sometimes it's not a bigger deal. But it's like, that's like a real consequence of like growing up in the digital age where like nothing's private anymore. And

like people can weaponize parts of your life against you. and social media and stuff. And it doesn't do it in like a weird, cheesy, forced way. It's just it tackles these subjects really, really well. I love how they approach these things. And it was only after I finished the entire series recently that I was like, man, 13 reasons why I really fucking, I mean, like, it always sucked,

but like when I started comparing the two because I was thinking like, yeah, this, they tackled this issue and this issue and this issue. It's like there's a lot of the same issues that were tackled over. you know, this one mini-series versus, or this one season versus four seasons of 13 reasons why. A lot of the same issues were tackled, just like one of them was manipulative, calling that back, and one of them wasn't as much, really.

And based around a gimmick, yeah, they trap themselves. 13 reasons why? Like a debt, yeah. Yeah. It just makes no sense to continue it beyond that. It's made for that audience of, like, teenagers, too. This is definitely a much more mature show. It's HBO.

There's lots of drugs and nudity and like all this shit. And I think that helps a lot in like establishing a realistic world compared to 13 reasons why, which is very sanitized. Yeah, it feels like a bunch of 20-somethings pretending to be in high school. Yeah. Euphoria actually feels more kind of legitimate. It's very raw. It actually gets some like visceral emotions out of you. Yeah, yeah.

Like, oh, shit. Yeah. And I'm giving Euphoria an 8 out of 10. I haven't seen the whole thing. I won't rate it, but I like it. Yeah, I'd probably give it about an A-2. I had some criticisms with it here and there. Nothing like huge.

But, yeah, awesome show. Everybody should check it out. Malcolm and Marie coming soon. Same director in Zendaya and a Tenet Guy. Tenet guy. The protagonist. John David Washington? Yeah, yeah.

Tenic guy. Okay, let's do this one then from... Green Hood 300. Hey, hey Sards. Have you seen any of the Gendi... Oh, God. Tartowski works. I've only ever read his name.

I've never said it out loud. He is the Stanley Kubrick of animation. His works of Samurai Jack, Clone Wars 2003, symbiotic Titan, Dexter's Lab, the Hotel Transylvania Trilogy, and his new show Primal. And no, Ralph, it doesn't have Nick Cage. Yeah, that's the show.

I know. Primal in Nick Cage is bad, yeah. I've been a long time fan of him. I think his art kind of style is so, like, recognizable and, you know, expressive. I love the, like, Clone Wars show and Dexter's Lab. Yeah. Even, like, the Hotel Transylvania movies are weirdly good. Okay.

The first one I like. It's just purely in terms of, like, the art direction and the actual animation and the, like, frenetic nature of it. Because in primal, too, it's like about, like, a caveman and a... Like a dinosaur kind of teeming up. Okay. Which sounds stupid, but they sell it, man. The animation is so impressive. His creativity is hold snow-bounds.

I can't say I'm a fan of him, but I've seen almost all of his stuff, and that's just from it being so, like, in the forefront of animation. Like Samurai Jack, I remember watching. Dexter's Laboratory, I remember. All those other things. Hotel Transylvania is actually pretty good, even though that's like an Adam Sandler kind of thing.

Yeah, no, surprisingly good. It's actually kind of funny. Yeah. Okay, yeah, he was involved with Dexter's Lab and Powerpuff Girls. Those two things I love when I was younger, especially. Not the new Powerpuff Girls, that's different and bad. But the old one is great. Yeah, I watched both of those things growing up and really loved it, both of them,

for their humor and their style and, you know, very, very unique. very distinct. There we go. That's the word I was looking for. Yes. Very distinct. Yes. Immediately distinct.

Yeah. I watched a bit of Samurai Jack growing up. Like, I always appreciated the style of it. I was always like, oh, this is an interesting thing. It was like cool that, you know, there was like a good amount of maturity from it, obviously. But I never really. Yeah. There wasn't a lot that, like, hooked me on it.

I didn't, you know, religiously watch it or anything. I've just seen bits and pieces. Yeah. Yeah. I think it went over. my head because I was so young watching it. But I really liked it. I thought the animation was cool. Yeah.

I just couldn't follow the story or anything. Yeah, I don't think there was a whole lot of story from what I remember in Samurai Jack. Really good action. I might be wrong. Dexter's Lab was really funny, though. I noticed the animation similarities, like the style of all of them. But there's a lot of variety, too, tone and genre. Samurai Jack's very mature.

PowerPuff Girls was very friendly. Dexter's Lab is I love Dexter's Lab I don't know if you guys have seen that it's a very funny show yeah yeah do you see his Star Wars show hmm I have seen that as a kid uh his Star Wars show the Clone Wall Show oh I've actually seen some of that too people religiously but I've seen a few episodes yeah people love that shit yeah it's genuinely kind of sick yeah it makes it way cooler than anything that's in the movies okay because I remember that coming out before the movies or something like before the third movie so i was like this like this general grievous guy

damn and then the movies kind of funny the rest is history yeah the movie's terrible he's in there for five minutes yeah i don't know i would say stanley kubrick of animation is a little much based on what i've seen i'm not the biggest fan of that i'm not sure i would give that title but i mean why can you not just be himself anyway why'd you to that exactly good point Alex, thank you. He's an excellent artist and a very, very talented and successful artist. Yeah. The new Spielberg. Like, I'm not, yeah, they're calling New Spielberg.

It does for animation what sharks did to grandparents. You're getting a little confused now. You've said it's so many time. Is that not quote? Yeah, good stuff. I don't know if I would ever just watch something because his name's on it, though. I don't think I'm going to watch. Hotel Transylvania. I don't care how much you guys say it's good. I don't think I'm never gonna watch it. I wouldn't recommend it for you. Yeah. Considering I was walking into it like dreading it,

it was actually kind of funny and enjoyable. Primal seems interesting. That seems more up my alley for a mature audience. Yeah, I think animation notes especially like really love his place and in history, you know. Yeah. Okay, great. All right, I guess that does it for questions. Thank you so much. And I believe we've got a recommendation. I believe it's Ralph's turn to recommend a film. Oh, it is, cool. I'm going to recommend a film from a director we've seen before, Tarantino. And that movie is from 1997 called Jackie Brown.

Oh, shit. Awesome. All right. So check out Jackie Brown. I think it's streaming on Pluto TV, whatever the fuck that is. What the fuck is? I got a bluer. Yeah, I have a Blu-rayer.

Go watch, guys. Yeah, everyone can find it. Yeah, Jackie Brown, Tarantino movie. It's one of the ones people haven't seen as much. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've only seen it, I think, once or twice. Yeah, cool. Been meaning to re-watch it.

Okay, awesome. So if you don't want to be spoiled for Jackie Brown, directed by Quantan Tarantuni, check it out before the next episode of this podcast. These episodes air every two weeks. You can listen to them early by going to sardonicast.com. Sign up for premium. It's $2 a month.

You get them as they're edited. Also, patreon.com slash sardonicast. Also, we got merch. Yeah. Sign up. Buy our merch or I'll slap your phone out of your. Fucking, we'll do something terrible if you don't get our merch. I'm not going to tell you.

You'll just have to find out. All right. Thanks for listening, everybody. 2,001. Thanks everybody 20-0-1 they'll say 20-0-1 they'll say Bye-bye

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