Sardonicast - Sardonicast #88: Army of the Dead, Cure

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Buy Sardonicast T-Shirts, and other merchandise at https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast. Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthemoviemaker Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Ralph's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ralphthemoviemaker Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Fan art: https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/m2faka/sardonicast_fanart_first_fanart_i_did_for_anything/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/nvda68/i_made_a_art/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/mfpto8/looking/ Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 16:09 - Army of the Dead 49:26 - Cure 1:15:50 - Q&A 1:16:00 weird but good casting choices? 1:21:30 ever tried learning a 2nd language? 1:26:00 evil wizard will restore your abilities to enjoy your favourite films... but only if you watch the madagascar movies every day for a year. do you do it? 1:29:39 is there a bias against CG or 2D animation? 1:40:04 overused songs in movies? -1:42:41 ambiguity of un/vaccinated people in theatres?

Three, two, one. Shut up! Remember Smosh? Oh, Smosh. Yeah. Yes. Oh, man. Well, that was a nostalgia throwback there.

This is Anthony Padilla, Padilla, Padiya from Padilla.combeSux.org, and this is Sardanacast. YouTube.com. slash Rafflomoumere. And I'm Ian from H.E. Welcome to Sardinicus. Yeah, Smosh, it's a good reference. The Smosh movies are really bad. Classic film, yeah.

I think I've watched bits of them, you know? I think I've watched, like, I think I skipped through one once. It was like, this is not good. Which, do you know which one? I think they were high-fiving on the cover and jumping. Yeah, that's the movie. I think it was just the Smosh movie. I feel like they're very distinct, because Ghostmates is just kind of a story-driven movie with them in it.

Yeah, like, that's just like a, you know, You can kind of just imagine like a kind of bland kind of comedy. That's what Ghostmates is. Smosh, the movie is like a meme movie with a bunch of... Yeah, I remember a bunch of... Like, it's very different. It is very different. I think there was a moment where they played the Pokemon game.

Yeah, like a bunch of people that are like... Mockerblows and... I don't watch. Like, yeah. But it's very... Yeah, it's different. They both suck. Yeah.

I couldn't imagine Ghostmates is much better. The Fred movies are worse, I think. But they have John Cena. Yeah, but they're weird. They're really weird. The one, I only saw the second one. That was like fucking bizarre. It almost seemed like the YouTuber makes a movie thing.

It almost seemed like there was a bit more faith from industry back in the day. You know, like Fred movies are like Nickelodeon, you know? It's been completely killed. Yeah, it was something new and fresh by then, wasn't it? Like, Fred's. There was faith in the industry back then. Well, yeah. So, YouTube is, like, million sub-utubers was a new phenomenal back then, wasn't it?

Like, Fred was like a huge name. Right. So they're like, we got to capitalize on that. Yeah. So you're Rabidam Johnson's, your Fred's. They would jump in on the crazy different types of media, early media explosion stuff. Yeah. So you get your smosh.

Arctic is a fine film. Yeah. Yeah, it is. But it's not really a YouTube. It's a movie made by a person who is a YouTuber, but it's not really a YouTube movie. Yeah. Exactly. There's a lot of unique things.

These video game high school. There's, you know, these other routes that we went. Yeah. Oh. It's fine. As long as you're not making stuff like not cool. Didn't even watch it. Yeah.

Remember when we got a question in our Sardonicast questions or whatever? And there were people being like, have you checked out the Shane Dawson documentaries? And they were unironically still calling them documentaries. There was like this weird period of time. time where people actually thought those were good. And now that everybody hates him, everybody's like, I always thought they were bad. It's like, where did all those people go that thought that those were real documentaries?

Where did all those people just disappear to? You fucking cowards. I don't watch those, but I remember them. They would get like millions of views and there was just conspiracy theories, basically. Well, yeah, all he started doing was taking like three of his normal episodes of like 10 minute plus normal YouTube guff, like vlog stuff. And then he somehow figured out a way to take like three of those episodes and just rebrand it as a documentary and somehow everyone just lapped it up. He probably got some editors to work on it.

Well, yeah, like one of the conspiracy theory ones, the theory was that in Chucky Cheese, they collect up all the slices and then in the kitchen just like shambled together pizzas with like leftover bits. Which is really weird because you'd be saving zero dollars. The amount of money it costs to like make a pizza, you know? Yeah, but you know, like when you make a documentary, you have like a premise, a thesis, and then you explore it, you research it, you know? Yeah. You make a story out of it. But these people have no talent. Yeah, it's like you just threw out this idea and then doesn't explore it in any way, doesn't do anything with it.

Like, you'd imagine like, oh, maybe he's going to, I don't know, try and get like a job working at Chuck Echee cheese, get one of his friends to work there. Do something. Yeah, you could do a real expose if that was. was what you wanted to do, but you're right, you're absolutely right. It just kind of starts and stops at, look, these, these, these slices don't match up. They will look weirdly cut, right? He knows how there's nothing going on in them too, so he, like edits in these video blocks, like clips of robots, like, just, like, just, I'm serious, dude, like, every few minutes,

There's just like a random clip of some weird video block stock footage. Holy shit. It's wacky dude. Check out that conspiracy theory one. Yeah. I watched a James Healy movie, penis boy. That was fucking really bad. That's like another YouTuber movie, I guess I've seen.

He tried to hide that, but I don't know. That one's really, it's like, it's hard to even get through a minute of it. What's the plot? What's the plot? I don't even want to describe it. you're the one that wrote it up I mean yeah I don't know because we were just thinking

of bad YouTuber movies that's like the most recent one I've seen You know what though There's like There's a YouTube channel that I found from the movie that they made called tiny cinema

and they have less than 20,000 subscribers and I clicked through a couple of their videos there was nothing that I found to be like great but their movie is really funny and it's called butt boy and And it's like, it's really, really, it's like one of the stupidest funny, it's like actually solid. I would, I would unironically recommend but boy.

Yeah, I just mean the title is better. I'll watch it. Oh, please. It's so funny. I can add it to a watch list, sure. It's got some like hilarious practical effects and hilarious, uh, implicated. Yeah, that name enough is so me. It's just so dumb, but really funny.

Yeah, 2019. But yeah, don't watch the, don't even watch the short but boy on their YouTube channel because it doesn't hold up to the movie. The movie is just so funny. Damn. Okay. It's really, uh, I don't know how to describe it. I don't know if I've ever seen the trailer, honestly.

It's better than penis boy. That's how you describe it. I guess so. That's all you need. Yeah. Yeah, Shane Dawson's movies are bad. Was there some movie news you wanted to bring up? Well.

from like these fucking awful movies well there's um I was I mean there's a couple things that has been going on there's a there's a fucking AMC stock is like up again which I mean partially due to like the meme

the meme stonks of people you know creating pump and dumps who knows but Quiet Place part two did well I think that yeah yeah yeah I think that's a contributing that's why I said partially is not is because theaters are kind of like coming back, which is good. I'll see another movie in theaters,

you know? The last one I saw in theaters in a real theater was Invisible Man, Lee Wynnell. Yeah, that's a lot of people's, like, last experience in the theater. I saw Tenet in a drive-in, so. Yeah, which is interesting. Yeah, I saw Tenant, and I saw something else, Mortal Kombat. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I'm, I'm, expecting my first movie back in theaters to be the new M-night film Old. Yeah, I was thinking that too. Looking great. It actually looks pretty good. It looks interesting. It's like kind of a comedy, I think. Oh, I'm not sure.

Okay. The premise is interesting. Do you think it... Did you watch the full trailer or the teaser? But then it freaked me out. I watched the full trailer. I watched the teaser. I didn't think that it was trying to be a comedy.

I think all of his movies, especially after. like some of his last air render type movies are they don't take themselves as seriously they are kind of comedies like I mean split or the visit didn't even say that about the visit he's like it's like a horror movie and a comedy

like somewhere in the middle I feel like that's what he's always going for yeah I never saw the visit and like the premise of old is so bizarre that it is kind of funny I'm gonna this is this is not no no no because when he says that it's also a comedy in the visit

he's talking about the fucking cringe rap sequences that are not funny that's why The Visit is like one of the worst movies fucking ever is because it tries to be funny and it's the most cringe fucking thing in the world Yeah, that's like it's a comedy in the way that like Birdemic too is a comedy It's like someone who doesn't understand comedy

Road a comedy Yeah, I don't know The last Airbender I admire him trying to be funny at least I think I think in every one of his films There's at least some moments within the film That are trying to be comedic but I don't know if that necessarily means that like every funny moment.

It depends on the movie how well those moments were. I think like Last Airbender is one of the worst ones because it's so dull. You know, there's no jokes. There's no humor personality. And the source material being there. And yet it's one of his funniest. There's no jokes and it's one of its funny. I think the happening is funnier though.

It's a inconsistent movie, but you know, there's the parts that are trying to be funny that I don't know. But it's so bizarre that I think the happening is funny. like actually more entertaining, you know? I think old will hopefully be like a better version of like something like that, you know. I think it'll be his return to form and by that I mean it'll be really bad and I'll be able to laugh at it. As long as there's no cringe wrap in it

I'm going to be so happy. Split was really good. I thought split was actually really good. Yeah, do you know why? It's because he took a script from when he was writing good movies still. Like he's, the trajectory of what I've predicted has been like spot on oh yeah he wrote the script for split like back when he was doing like unbreakable and shit well it has that connection to uh other films that he's made yeah and then and then the moment he tries to do a film like in the same universe but it's a new script he made glass like the

fucking worst thing ever unbearable yeah yeah i didn't even see that one because i should because bruce wellis is in it oh you just seems like a paycheck movie for him reasons why you should see it yeah you forget he's in it yeah yeah it's It's cancer though, so watch out. He's a very inconsistent guy when it comes to making movies. He's at a point where I'm just, I don't get excited for a new movie of his unless it looks kind of funny bad. Speak for yourself. It's been such a long time.

I mean, Split was the last one, I guess, I just straight up enjoyed as a movie. Yeah. Like Split seemed... Without any caveats. Yeah. But then the follow-up was like, okay, maybe, yeah, maybe this was also kind of a flu. I don't know what's happening in you He took a script for him when he still

know how to write That's what he did And I guess he had Maccaboy too Having Maccaboy to carry it as well Yeah there were a few things that made that movie good Also he was working with like a pretty good cinematographer too Mm-hmm yeah There were some elements and you know

Just a good combination of elements That worked well on that film and then He basically took The same combination of elements For glass and then just had a much worse script. And somehow the entire movie just was like absolute cancer, especially the second half.

Mm-hmm. Holy crap. He's getting on par with your Snyders at this point where it's like riding off early hits in your career and you're just wondering at a certain point, why do I like your movies anymore? Have you seen like Sixth Sense and Unbreakable? I think those movies are better.

Yeah, yeah, no, they're great, but it is the same thing as Snyder. Anything Snyder is made. Yeah. The height to lows. Dawn of the Dead is the height of of Zach Snyder's career. I think every other movie he's made is really

inconsistent. Zach Snyder doesn't have any masterpieces. Yeah, right. I think Unbreakable is basically a masterpiece and so is six cents. Yeah. Should probably rate those higher. Like, honestly. Yeah, they're great.

Yeah, I like those too. Yeah. It's just, you know, at a certain point when there's fewer and fewer, like, great examples. The happening is a masterpiece of awfulness. I love that movie Mark Wahlberg and Zoe Day Chanel

was like perfect casting They were so It has one of the most memorable scenes to me Shocking The other shocked faces are so stupid That's that point early on in that movie It's like just comes out of nowhere This is this kind of old bloke

Who starts talking to the main characters About like hot dogs or something like that Yeah the hot dog guy I love the hot dog guy That's one of the most memorable scenes. Yeah, because it just doesn't really relate to anything. It was just the tongue joke, yeah.

Yeah. I think it's trying to be funny too. It's trying to be like quirky, you know? It doesn't make sense, like, within the tone, because it's followed with like a death scene, I think. You know how the Cohen brothers can stick like really interesting, like, southern characters in no country for old men where it's like the, it doesn't ruin the tension of the film in any way, but there are

some funny moments where it's like, you know, it's trying to go to a store and get some things and the store clerk is like some weird character like oh i don't think so bud you know like they're able to do that and i think m knight kind of thinks that he's doing that at some points in times like i'll just make a quirky character here you know it's a sticky idea it's stickiness you know yeah that old thing i think i think he thinks that he's doing that old is going to be fucking awesome i'm gonna laugh to my grave i'm very excited we're all gonna see it oh i'm gonna see it opening night i'm assuming that i'll have my I'm really excited.

By that point, I'll be all chipped up. I'm excited. I'm super excited. For this to be my first real theater experience of like the whole pandemic, really, it's like 20-21, you know? I think it's so appropriate because I don't think I've missed an M-night premiere. I wouldn't want to start missing one, you know? And I guess before we get into another movie,

just like to point out the sauce spiral is on digital now and I saw it and it's so bad and I was just thinking right now like damn they could have

they could have just released that on digital during the pandemic it wouldn't have been any fucking different like holy shit yeah because they've held on to haven't they

yeah Lionsgate's so weird they did that with chaos walking and saw spiral and the Twitter account when people were like hey can you just release soft spire? On VOD, they're like, you have to see this in theaters.

It's such an experience. Now, after watching it, it's like, oh, fuck off. That's funny. You liars. You don't even believe that. It was kind of hype for spiral, but... In what way? I should love my expectations.

Oh, just to see where the Saw franchise was going next, you know? What tricks they're going to pull up this time? I heard some good things about it, like Chris Rock. Yeah, yeah. I'm a little I You can You should both watch it for yourselves

I won't try to influence your opinion In any way at this point Oh yeah I'm gonna I'm definitely checking this up Yeah please watch we'll talk about it in a few episodes or something But yeah I yeah Who boy In other news Also a movie that is bad

Army of the Dead directed by Zaddy Snyder Sorry Hack Snyder What a treat. We were just talking about him. We could have segued it better, honestly. Double 2021 Snyder. Just came out with the Justice League Snyder cut, yeah.

Came out with. And this movie felt as long. The Army of the Dead felt about as long as the Snyder cut. Yeah, no, the two films Snyder has released this year are the two longest examples in those two genres, those superhero movies. Oh, really? He's not got the longest one. And he's got the longest zombie movie, too, with Army of the Dead.

Wow. Two hours, 28 minutes. Two hours, 28 minutes. God damn, do you feel? He wants to make sequels as well. There's going to be a few sequels. Apparently, it was a fucking hit for Netflix. Apparently, Army of the Dead did really well.

Cool. I thought there was something wrong with my TV. No. Dead pixels. It's the second most expensive zombie movie ever made as well. Second most? What's the most? Yeah, after World War.

Oh, yeah. I should have thought about that one a bit longer. Yeah. Now, do we think this is better than World War Z? I would say yes. I would say no. I would say no. No.

What did I rate World War Z? I think it was higher than a one. How long is it? That's how I'll answer. I think it's shorter, but let's see. Yeah, I rated World War Z a solid four. And it's an hour and 56 minutes long. Okay.

2013. God, it feels like yesterday. The dead pixels really were distracting. Um, aside from that, I don't know. So, explain this drama or whatever that was going on with this movie. There was a drama? About what? The character they had to come out?

Oh, that. That's hilarious. Or, like, Cigna Ticro. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was a whole thing. Yeah.

And, you know, Tignitaro is a good comedian. There's some parts where I felt like they just CGIed a character. Well, no, the fucking whole thing. I mean, basically. Where it was like, so, anybody who's confused, we should have. explain. Chris Delia got me tuned for like, I don't know, sexting 12 year olds or some shit, whatever happened. Cancelled.

The movie was already finished. Literally, a year after everyone else, after everybody had stopped filming, they decided that they would refilm certain scenes and digitally edit Tignitaro into the movie. So when you see her on screen, the character was originally supposed to be Chris Thalia. And so throughout the film, either Tignitaro, is in her own shot, or she's right next to other characters that are all weirdly out of focus because they basically added like a blur over all of the footage and then made it look like that it was just like a focal thing, even though they're standing right next to each other at the

same depth. And so that's how they, yeah, that they basically blurred it to make it easier to like stick her into the movie. And so every single fucking shot with her is just It's like a photo where they like Photoshop someone into the frame. It's so funny every single time I see it. Yeah, it looks like a kind of cardboard cut out. Yeah. It's, yeah, it is distracting, yeah. Well, I was shocked to read about that budget and just how big of a project it is because

Zach Snowdo, he's kind of adopted this, I don't know the best way to describe it. He has this real reliance on this, this kind of, I search what it is. He's obsessed with the Canon Dream lens, portrait lens. So you'll notice it was in the Snyder cut too. It's an obsession with these kind of portrait shots where the background is always blurred. So you never really get a good sense of the environment you're working in it. It's always these like close-up blurry background shots. Yes.

A nice kind of thrown in now and again, but it's such a reliance that you just never get a good feeling of the space that you're working in, which is important in an action zombie movie like this. And yeah, that was a surprising choice to me because it's always what people ring Zach Snyder for being good at is the visual side and how he's got such an eye and a flare for this. I even watched the creating an Army of the Dead, like Netflix special. I watched a bit of that, yeah. It's so funny.

Yeah, which was, I found it quite illuminating, actually, the way they were talking about it. The, like, PR way they were talking about it that was basically being around the bush in having to describe it in any real way. Yeah. Because there's just nothing to really say about it. So they just talk about the technology. Like, oh yeah, we made the NX, sorry, the XN suits that were able to capture motion for the zombies without using cameras.

And they're just hyper-focusing on all this tech. And like when they actually have to talk about the story or like the characters, it's just Zach. Like he just throws out some random reference to Romero movie and then it goes back to some other texture. Like 80% of that featureette was just that. them being like, we took real locations in Vegas and we created them in the computer and therefore to scale. And so if your idea of a movie going experience is pointing out places in Vegas and saying, I know what that is, then this is the perfect movie for you is that's basically like what

the whole fucking thing is. It's like, there's more to a movie than that. Like, why does that matter so much? Even though there were some fictional locations. Like they show some, in the opening they show some hotels. Some of them are like made up. And I think for the movie, like I guess they just made some up. There's one like the Olympia, I think it's called.

I don't think that's real. I don't know. Are you a Vegas, Chad? Do you go to Vegas all the time? A Vegas expert? I'm just trying to think like how accurate it was. I thought the opening title sequence was fine, except it was pointless to the overall plot of the movie. Like you didn't even really need to see it.

Because you see like a family like die. Like, okay, that was cool. Like, you don't, like, they're never brought up again, like. He's the guy parachuting down and, you know, there's a golfing him. I like Dave Patea's character just fine, but there's like, all these other characters around him. Like, they just die constantly. I didn't really enjoy the daughter character. I thought she was really annoying.

And she was constantly putting everyone in, like, harm's way to save people. Like, she was constantly trying to save her friend. And then, like, at the end of the movie, like, almost everyone dies. Spoilers anyway. So it's like, what the fuck was even the point? Like, like, people. just get killed like okay so the whole thing was stupid and pointless

it's a zombie movie it is it feels very pointless by the end of it like what the fuck was any of this for um it's a heist film i guess we forgot to mention that like they don't get any fucking money the heist part of the movie is so like glossed over and there's no like rush

other characters like talking to each other in the safe even though there's like a yeah about to come and blow them up and the safe is about to close like there's no rush they're just fucking talking to each other It's like, why isn't there any, like, tension here? Like, there is intented or something like that. Well, it's funny because, like, the way that they shoot this or the way that they edit it,

they insist a countdown, right? They're like, there's 20 minutes before this whole city gets moved. And they think it's this weird thing that movies do, a lot of, like, really bad movies do, is they think that by insisting that there's a level of urgency, that they don't have to show it in any way. So, like, not only is it edited in such a way where it's like, okay, that's way more time than you said was happening, right? But then during all of these sequences where it's like, oh, you should really be hurrying.

The characters are like, Dad, you were never around much when I was younger. And this sad piano music place is like, fucking have this conversation later. What are you doing? Like, there is no urgency. Why are you insisting there's urgency? When they're packing up the money, they should be rushing, but they're not. When they're packing up the money, they should be like throwing the money when they're fucking making it rain.

celebrating slow. Yeah, like making it rain. Like, you guys got like 25 minutes. Let's just dance for a bit. It doesn't make any sense. Like, the characters, it just don't make sense. They're not strong. Like, you don't, you don't just want to be like, a little bit far away from it.

You want to be, like, pretty far away. The safest place you could be, I guess, is the safe, right? I don't know. I don't know what would protect you from a nuclear blast, but... I mean, I guess we'll get to the ending part. Like, there's a little post-credit scene, which I thought was pretty dumb. Oh, yeah. But, like, what other stuff happened in the movie?

There's like so much nonsense. Well, yeah. He said it's a heist movie, but it's obviously a zombie movie, too. The zombies play a huge role. And Snyder's spin on zombies this time is that when they've been zombies for a while or whatever, there's a sect of zombies called the Alpha Zombies who are zombies. But if they weren't zombies, they're superheroes. Even in that behind the scenes thing, Dave Batista refers to them as he says that Alpha Zombies are like superheroes.

And he shoots them like superheroes And you can see he spent the last like 10 years making superheroes Because he directs everything like they're all in DC Little epic He's like riding a horse around Even though there's zombies, yeah Yeah So why if you love the zombie genre in this way

Why are you doing this? They're not zombies anymore You're doing this to it Yeah you've just changed it to such a degree Where it doesn't even It's just something so different They might as well be aliens You're not even using the premise you established

Yeah they might as well be Right on top of that Yeah. Did you guys notice that some of the zombies are robots? Yeah, I don't know why. They have blue blood and like when they're shot you see kind of a robotic. Maybe there's another hour of deleted scenes explaining it or some shit. I don't know.

Well, yeah, there's like extra stuff explaining it. Yeah, well these ideas and like references and things to other movies, but just forget to make like a good one of his own because Dawn of the Dead has mentioned a lot in this like documentary thing they were talking about of the making of this. as if this is somehow like a spiritual successor or somehow within the same league forgetting the fact that that was a remake and was written by James Gunn. So you have a much stronger bass and here the written,

it was at least co-written by Snyde himself and I think it really shows because what was his other previous solo writing work, sucker punch. And I mean, no I was talking about the original story of that movie. And yeah. it's similarly

there's a similar amount of depth as sucker punch in terms of just it was written the first draft was written about 10 years ago and I think that really shows oh was it? The zombies even in the zeitgeist anymore the weird like Reddit reference and stuff

it just felt aged and bad and dumb and like there was just no real creative juice here I mean I think they could have maybe pulled something together I think the original idea was that James Gunn was going to at least write the screenplay or something, be attached in some way, but he's got a suicide squad movie to make instead. Yeah. Fell on Zach to pull it together.

He's had to make a better DC movie than Zach has ever. Yeah, yeah, I didn't think about that. I mean, yeah, it's probably what's going to happen. I don't even feel like I have to be hyped up at all to say that, because, you know, so it's still not super... for high expectations. You don't even need to have that. Regardless of how long and pretentious this movie is, which is both of those things very much,

there's things in the core of this film. There's elements at its core that just make it not work very well. Because, like, you're taking all the scary elements out of zombies. As soon as you humanize them and you're making them, like, emote and, like, grieve and, like, have a baby. Like, what's so? It's like, well, I don't know, they're just fucking, like, stronger people that have angry faces then. Like, what's the... Why does any of this matter?

Yeah. Yeah. Because especially when it ends with Dave Batista's slow-mo exploding the, like, head of the bad guy zombie anyway. So trying to make you sympathize him with it. It's just a pointless waste of time anyway. He doesn't even care about it in the end. A lot of the human characters are just unlikable. Completely.

And they focus on the zombies more. It makes me think, like, oh, they want me to like the zombie. What's so bad about being bit? Like the guy who gets eaten by the tiger. He's like some kind of traitor or something. He was sent to just steal a zombie head. That was actually the mission the whole time. Like, okay, who cares?

It's not that interesting. And then he just gets fucking eaten. And that's it. Like, that's the end of it. There's like a two-minute scene of him getting eaten by a lion. Yeah. I guess there's a lot of focus on gore. That's, if you like that.

I mean, it's cool. The gore looks cool, but there's a million other things going on. Dawn of the Dead was much better pace I liked that movie much more I mean there were also actual stakes You know like they were trapped in a fucking mall Yeah, trying to get out and stuff like Like you mentioned there's a zombie tiger

Yeah And like the execution of the way it actually Plays into the movie is such a non-entity I know Contrast that with a Netflix movie from a few years ago Where there was like a CG kind of zombie bear creature And that Just contrast like the scenes in the way

Like that kind of creature was used in the different movies. I'm referencing. Annihilation? Annihilation. Yeah. If it's not nailing the horror, it's not nailing the zombie fiction, it's not got characters, it's not a very good heist movie, the action isn't particularly good, it's

way too long, the zombies aren't cool, like, what is there? The music choices are terrible. Yeah. Like, man, I'm really trying with this one. Oh, the music, holy shit, it's fucking awful. Like, constant covers of songs that are just fucking horrendous. I thought that was the worst part of the film was the music. But he's been doing this.

Yeah, exactly. He's been doing this for so long now. There's a cover of this is the end from like Apocalypse Now. Oh, it's so fucking bad. Like, constant though. It's like the whole movie is littered. There's one thing I liked about the soundtrack and it was that Richard Cheese was in it because that was a bit of a callback to his other Donna the Dead movie where Richard

cheese was in the soundtrack to that. Okay. So there. That's about it. That's the only thing. But even there, there's tons of references. And Sucker Punch, too. Remember, there's tons of covers of songs.

They were just fucking agonizing. Oh, yeah. Some of them are just so bad, too. They're just so grating. Yeah, I was checking the length every so often. They didn't even get to the part where they were, like, showing up into the barrier of Vegas until, like, almost an hour through the movie. It's like, what happened in the first hour?

Like, opening scene, the worst military. personnel ever can't contain one zombie and then we get so it's like this is another core issue I have with this type of zombie movie is like it just kind of picks and chooses how strong and capable the zombies are at any given moment because like I don't know you got like 10 military dudes they can't handle it they can't handle one of them at all but then you have like other scenes where it's like the characters who are supposed to survive in that part are just like fucking blowing their heads off left and right and like pow pow like super here it's like so inconsistent and if it's going to do that then it's really impossible for me to feel any sort of like fear or tension

from these the actual conflict in the movie which is zombies it's like should i be fearing them or not like they were obviously able to overtake this whole city but at the same time these other characters are getting some cool cool music going along while they're just like fucking killing all of them you know it's like i don't know it just feels inconsistent yeah Did you get to the point in the creating an army of the dead, where they were kind of talking about how to be self-aware, but never wink at the camera. Oh, no, I didn't get that far.

Snyder talking about, I'm aware of the commentary of zombie movies, you know, going back to Dawn of the Dead or whatever. But what is the commentary of this movie? How does he apply his spin onto it? Well, he's got his like, Me Too zombie guy. How did you find the implementation of that? Dude, there's no such a character.

to any of it. There's no comedy to any of it. That was bad. I just came with it. He's a actor from Sons of Anarchy. I just kept thinking, juice. It's his name. Like, I couldn't even focus on the character. There's that. There's a bit of sort of COVID stuff thrown in there a little bit. It's, I don't really read anything from it in the end. It all seems kind of half-fus. And don't they just shoot him? Like, all that, like, set up. And then he's, like, killed really quick. It's like blinking and miss it, basically, the scene. Yeah. And then he gets turned into an alpha. can fucking dies. Like, that's what I mean? Why, what was the point of this whole fucking movie?

Yeah. A premise this simple does not need two and a half hours. I'm sorry. No. Simply does not. It doesn't benefit from it. Like, it doesn't need it and it doesn't help. It would have to earn it. It makes it worse. It's just so much of it is just like, it's just, it's so slow and boring.

And then the only moments that I can pay attention to are the moments where I'm cringing. You know? That scene with Ken Watanabe And he says, easy, easy, Japanese Remember? Oh yeah, yeah, that was a weird line. Just the humor in general was terrible. So awkward.

No good, like, humorous lines to bring it home. Yeah. Yeah. Can we talk about the post-credit scene that's like Indiana Jones, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull-Ass? Yeah, I somehow missed this. I was not expecting for there to be enough to credit.

So please, what happens in it? Like, a guy just, The guy who's locked in the safe, you know, there's a safe cracker who opens the safe and a guy, they're like buddies. They're like best friends. Yeah, yeah. He sacrifices himself to, you know, the safe cracker sacrifices himself. The other guy comes out of the safe, like, and somehow survives nuclear radiation, fucking, I don't know, all that debris and fire. And he walks across the desert to an airport and then gets on a plane.

And I guess he gives, uh, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's. like hanging out with the stewardesses, right? And then he goes in the bathroom and he realizes he got bit, basically. And that's like the end of the movie. Yeah, the first time he's noticed. That's right. No, I did see this. I just forgot. But it doesn't make sense. Like, how the fuck did this guy survive a nuclear bomb and all that radiation and then walk across the desert? Like, it doesn't make any sense. Yeah. And even the safe opening, um, but apparently safe's open in Vegas, like automatically from the inside. So that's teasing the new Snyderverse. Sure.

Maybe. That's what it is. But it was so thrown in. There was a zombie tiger, isn't that cool? Oh man, that was bad. It's like the zombie polar bear in Game of Thrones. Yeah. That was the whole movie.

It's just a bunch of gore and like shots of zombies and, you know, fucking dumb characters and dumb jokes. And none of it meant anything. And the pacing is really bad. The violence and gore. Boring. Just fine. like there's nothing going on there's nothing special about it

there were no stakes I thought the sets were actually like the whole Vegas set is basically one like one little block you see one little concrete little square with like a bunch of crap on it

there was one okay animatronic the headless queen in the bag I think was partially animatronic which was pretty good oh cool but I mean aside from that there really wasn't that much

that stood out a lot of pretty notably bad CG blood squirt and everywhere you know that kind of stuff you know if Zach Snyder wanted to make an entire movie where it was like lull, epic Reddit zombie tiger sort of thing

if he wanted to do that the entire movie and make something like an hour and a half and it was just like that and then I'm sure a lot of people would have enjoyed it maybe it wouldn't have been exactly for me but that still would have been much better than this movie because you have that happening for a good chunk of it. And then the contrast of them trying to do this stupid family drama story with Dave Batista and the daughter,

where it's like, you can't throw this shit into the same movie of someone saying, A zombie tiger? You know, like if you're trying to do this whole cool nonsense and play this dumb, like, cool music being like, wow, everything's supposed to not be taken seriously. And then just hard stop to this sad piano music. I think, Dave just like, I'm sorry that I didn't treat you right and your mother. It's like, pick one. Pick one.

Yeah. You can't have them both. Yeah, the tone is messed up. Yeah, because like the conclusion with the way the zombies like fight Dave Batista, it's more like a samurai movie or something where the zombies like taking off his, his armor and they have like a slow one-on-one almost like fist fight. the like ripped zombies. What is alluring about that in like a zombie story?

It's just so stupid. And it doesn't work. It's not played for humor. It does think it's cool. It reads as if Zach Snydered it on a napkin. And it was like, yeah, this is the one. This is my like genius. In the same way, Sucker Punch read.

It was like, yeah, these are my like teenage doodles coming to life. It very much feels like that. Yeah, my robot zombies that, you know, some are robots. Some of them are alphas that are like ripped. guys ride around on horses with armor on. It's all like kind of juvenile in that way and it all just boils to nothing. I took nothing. I felt no emotion.

I was just bored for two and a half hours. Yay. You did it again, Zach. Yeah. But does any of it even matter is the thing? Because you said already it's a huge success. If it's big, dumb and it has like helicopters crashing into hordes of zombies. And there's a tiger, yeah.

That like didn't really. really get used except for just killing that one guy. It was like so... Yeah. That was it. That was it. Like that's not... It wasn't really a part of any battle.

No one really fought it. He just like... He just got like carried around a bit and his head popped. It's pretty bad. They built up that tiger the whole... I love when the army of the dead things starts happening because like the queen gets her head cut off and they find out. And then they're playing this like really epic like borderline tribal.

music and you see like all these zombie characters like running and at that moment I was like man I almost feel something and then this stupid shit happened where like the tiger was like running along with them and then just sits on the car and yawns and like falls asleep it's like why would you show that in this like battle buildup seat like why would you show the tiger's sleeping like it's just like I'm done like why would you do that and then after that moment I was just like okay the the emotion that I almost experienced has faded faded away it's not there anymore Yeah. Now, I could be mistaken.

I just forgot if this was a payoff in the movie that I missed. But early on, there's a scene where they're kind of explaining that the dried-up zombies that have been there for ages are animated when it rains. They kind of come back to life. Yeah, they said that, and I don't think they did anything with that, did they? Yeah, this is so much shit this movie. So that was just never reincorporated anyway. Right. Yeah.

That, the robots, the lion. Like, if all the zombies were trying to get out, up against the wall and they just got burnt up in the sun. Why was there like a weird, why was there like an actual path coming from the place in the door to like where they needed to go? Like did the zombies, did they use like a snowplow? Or did the zombies just only die in some spots? It never ends with this movie because there are even theories floating out now that it's like a time loop thing. Oh, fuck off. No, no, no, no, no.

Yeah, that too. Remember, you see the alternate history version of them, like, in the fucking safe? Yeah, and there's like, dead bodies. No, that's so bad. What was that nonsense? Yeah, that's how I feel about it. I don't subscribe to that being a fan theory, because that's something that the movie explicitly pushes just to be fucking assholes. Like, they do this all the time in, like, so many different horror movies, they'll be like, what if, what if you just, you died six years ago, and this is all just purgatory for you?

They always throw in like one line like that as if it's like really making you think like, what if that is the case? But the writer doesn't actually intend that. They just want to like give you this different interpretation even though they didn't intend for that. They're like force feeding it to you, you know? There's no way. That's annoying. Because they explicitly say it.

Oh, yeah. It also gets just fans talking about it. Yeah. It gets those. No one would have thought of that if they didn't explicitly say it in the movie. Right? It's not like it works or fits. The whole film is just full of these.

throwaway ideas. Any one of these things could, you know, be explored in a two and a half hour movie with these robot zombies, with this time loop bullshit, with this heist. Just pick what you want it to be instead of trying to be everything in like five genres at once. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a shit show. I rate it one and a half out of five. Sorry, Zachy Pooh. Yeah, I think this is a one star for me. I mean, as I said, there's really nothing I like about it. You guys brought me down a lot, to be fair. It was a two and a half when I first saw it. There's just like, just so much bullshit.

I'm normally entertained by his movies. But it's when the length comes in, when it, that just, when you go and past two hours and there's nothing, just nothing of interest going on, you're really going to start annoying me. Because, yeah, as you said earlier, Adam, if this was an hour and a half, hit similar beats, had some dumb action, dumb violence,

I could be okay with that, you know? But it is the fact it is asking so much more of you. It's like implying that it's, yeah, there is not much to it and there's not, I don't know, the ideas here are not genius to me or bringing anything unseen in these genres. And yeah, it just was quite annoying to me. Well, you might have given your ratings, but I'm not fucking done talking about this shit. You mentioned the, you mentioned the,

the dead pixels, I find that like absolutely fucking unacceptable to release a movie in that condition because Zach Snyder during all these interviews and like he's built himself up

he's even credited as the cinematographer and he's like, I have a strong sense of visual style. I make all my movies the way that I do because I'm super obsessed with how it looks. That's the entire reason why the fucking Snyder cuts black and white and four by, sorry,

just four by three without black and white. I forget. It's just, he throws out all these like nonsensical ideas where it's just, Like, yeah, that's just nonsense. He is claiming to have this perfect vision where everything has to be exactly this way. And yet, those dead pixels are in the movie.

And if it was just one dead pixel in one spot throughout the entire film, you could get used to it. But it was in three different spots. And every time it cut, it kept interchanging between one of the three spots to a point where it was fucking comical. And it got more frequent throughout the entire film. Very distracting, especially with. but it's so dark. And I'm not even convinced that a special effects animator would actually have to like manually use like a paint tool and paint in every single one on every single frame.

I'm fucking convinced that there's an algorithm to fix that. If you just tell the computer like where the dead pixel is on the screen, you know, just like where the dot is and then feed the entire movie to it, it'll take the average color around the pixel and fill it in for you. I'm convinced that that exists. I don't even need evidence of that. It does exist. Right?

Yeah, that has to exist. Right? So, like, you couldn't even do that. Did you not notice it? Because when we wound up watching it, when I wound up watching it, the movie had already been out for like two weeks. You could honestly just fix that in post. It's on Netflix.

Like, people have updated streaming movies for other reasons before, you know? Like, they've been like, oh, let's just like, tinker this thing, patch it or whatever you want to call it. That's happened. They fucking patched the Cats movie while it was still in theaters. Fucking Zach Snyder? Like, Mr. like, oh, this is my vision. Like, you're seriously going to let that one slide?

That is completely fucking unacceptable. That is, like, not cool at all. That's, like, offensive to movies. It's offensive to movies. It's offensive to film. For such a visually strong director, yeah, you can't really defend that. It's absolutely unacceptable. This is his first time shooting digitally.

And I'm just reading here that it might have been, because of this obsession he has with this dream lens and like them having to jerry-rake this old, like, because they're from the 60s, but they had to like adapt it to the, what they're shooting on now. So maybe something went wrong there. And you can still fix it in post.

You could still fix that, though. They fixed Chris Delia in post. They removed an entire actor, replaced it with another one in post. They couldn't just get one, like three different pixels on the screen to fix it post. Come on. Even then, it was still be.

down to his bad decision-making though because you wanted the whole movie to have that blurry out of focus thing going on which I would argue is not necessary for this project. It wasn't necessary and then there's all these dead pixels. It makes the movie look like It's potentially actually ruined the movie. It makes me one of like I was about to return my TV I just got

like is it broken? Like what the fuck is going on? Yeah that's how you know it's not your TV is when it's consistent with the cuts in the film you know If it was over the entire movie then you could reappearing and reappearing what's going on. Yeah sometimes you're right sometimes it was one then sometimes it was two. I think the most I saw was two.

But, you know, like, it's fucking ridiculous. It's absolutely fucking unacceptable. Like, you cannot release a movie in that condition. Even on, like, a tiny, like, on like a 28-inch monitor or whatever, if that's how you watched the film before releasing it, you'd still notice it. Right? It doesn't even have to be a big fucking screen to notice that shit. It's so distracting.

Uh-huh. How can you honestly release that movie? But yeah, that... Yeah. Absolute bullshit. And then I also kind of wanted to talk about the, the ending sequence where we briefly mentioned the, just how there's like no sense of like time escape.

You know, they insist it without actually showing it. The most, one of the most infuriating parts was when they were like about to escape on the helicopter. It was like, she wasn't there. And then she comes out from behind the building. She's like, instead of just leaving, she's like, you know what? I decided I had a conscience. And then, you know, they're like dawdling me. entire time she looks over what the hell is that it's like just fucking go what are you doing and

then when she escapes she doesn't go up she goes sideways it's like you're just making it absolutely perfect for this zombie to be able to jump onto your helic you're providing the the perfect angle for that to happen you know i don't i don't feel any tension for movies that imply a sense of danger but every single time just oh so coincidentally because human brains are different but it all just out winds up happening in the way where they just put themselves in more danger but But it's just like, yeah, truly random or whatever. Oh, okay. What are excuse people want to give for that shit?

It's so annoying and transparent to just put your characters in this danger in ways that are just completely illogical. And that line about, oh, I did grow a conscience. That really shows the lack of, I don't know, appreciation for the audience. Like, really? You're just describing the wrap-up of what that character's arc should be by just saying, oh, hey, everyone, I've changed now, you know? It's not giving the audience any credit to take in the story or pick things apart. It's just so surface level like a lot of his films tend to be.

Yeah. Yeah. The whole thing was stupid. One out of ten. Hack Snyder, go fuck yourself. You know, the trailer for a Dead Island is a better zombie movie than this whole two and a half. Yeah, it's kind of Snydery, isn't it? His slow motion.

Uh-huh. Yeah. There's like a song cover. Oh, my God. Damn. That's a relic. You just reminded me of the Dead Island series. there. Well, yeah, because this film feels like it came out in 2011.

Yeah. Like Skyron came out with, you know, zombie trailers and everything. Like around zombie land. It's like a, yeah, it's like a dead rising trailer extended into a movie. Yeah, yeah, it kind of is. Just, uh... The Dead Rising has more commentary. Yeah, I guess so.

Thanks, it's a lot cooler than it is. Yeah. All right, we're... done talking about that. Yeah, one and a half. Garbage. All right. Yeah, it's enough for that one.

There was a recommendation from Alex, spoiler discussion. Yeah, so spin into something slightly different than a Snyder movie. My recommendation was 1997's Cure, full spoilers for this movie if you haven't seen it. So check that out before we delve in. This is directed by Kiyoshi Kurosawa. And it's a kind of procedural about a detainable. who is trying to solve an intensely confusing series of murders where people are committing murders, but right after the murders, they're claiming they have no memory of how it happened

or that they have temporary amnesia, or it's a whole mystery and the whole story is about explaining and the journey of the detective kind of losing his mind trying to figure out what is going on here. How did we feel about this? I was, yeah, I had a good time with this movie overall. I was mostly drawn in through the presentation and the choices through the way the story came together. Yeah. Because there are some beats where I'm not entirely sure how I feel about them still.

I'm still trying to figure out what the film was trying to tell me because it's left somewhat open-ended. The director's made an effort to not, you know, over-explain what's going on here, but they do give you plenty of answers within the... the story itself. But how did you guys feel about this one? Thank. I enjoyed it. It had a very deliberate sense of style. Very deliberate.

Where it was a lot of long takes and very simple, like, unexaggerated camera movements. And I loved how in certain scenes it would show you, I guess, like a whole picture from like a specific angle, like the, when the guy gets shot in the back of the head. and you see it just from that one location and then later in the film you know after seeing some other stuff we come back same location and it's the crime scene with the tape and everything

and it's from the exact same angle I like stuff like that where it's like it doesn't just bring you back to the location but it brings you back to the perspective yeah I liked the way it looked a lot yeah there's a lot of long takes I feel like there's not a lot of shots in the movie there's just a lot of like

characters sit down It's just like a long shot on them. It works. What, um... It's West Andersony, right? I don't... I mean, you could say that in a way, but... It was more reminded me of what...

Because I'd found this movie through hearing or reading that it was an inspiration for David Fincher and seven, and I could see... For David Fincher? Of that kind of... Yeah, yeah. Because I was thinking that too, but then I noticed the day don't match up. Is it the other way around maybe?

Because 7 came out before this. This is 1997. I might have been getting mixed up. Yeah. That's why I was confused. Interesting. I don't know. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I don't think that matches. I think I'm getting mixed up with a quote of, um, yeah, Bong Joon Ho, I think. That, that's right. Yeah, Bong Chu Jun Ho has been quoted as saying this is one of his top 10 favorite movies. So maybe that's who I was getting. can confuse with and you can see echoes of his style yeah too oh okay but yeah the that kind of

detached it's the the camera is very rarely handheld it's all very blocked out procedurally like this dedication to the yeah almost attached feeling of it it makes the the camera just like this um what's the word for it where it's like a omniscient yeah omniscient that's the exact word i was trying to think of thank you yeah unition force just watching the story Mm-hmm. It's weird because this is considered to be like a part of the late 90s, like, Japanese horror. I don't know if it's, like, called a Renaissance or whatever, but there was, like, this and Ringyu and Ju-on and you could even argue, like, audition, all kind of, like, coming out around this time period where... Yeah, this reminded me of that.

Yeah, like, there's a very deliberate and very uniquely Japanese tone. to these horror movies that I really like, especially in the editing. And I feel like I would love to see more things adopt that kind of like weird editing style. Like closer to the end, you see like the really quick shot of like what looked like a disfigured woman on like a wheelchair,

but it's only there for a tiny second. There's like audio coming with it too, but it's not like a cheesy like orchestral hit jump scare. It's more just like a weird noise. I like that stuff a lot. And I've seen that in some of the cinematics for like Silent Hill, like the Silent Hill 4 if you leave the menu playing, you get that you get like a really cool movie thing

and it implements those same kind of like editing techniques. And I just, I don't see that that often. It feels so unique to like this culture and time period and genre. And it was, you know, it brought me back. I was glad to experience it again. It doesn't feel cheap at all. It's very like, it does work in the context of the movie. There's no cheap jump scares or any shit like that.

No. It's very just disturbing. No, Japan loves existential dread, don't they aware. Yeah. A lot of the fear and the horror comes from this concept of this. I mean, we're in full spoilers. The killer's kind of revealed to be like a master of hypnosis, which, you know, it sounds like a kind of silly idea,

but the way it's implemented, the way they explore it. And it is exactly like a horror movie where they find the kind of law book and the old VHS with the previously unseen footage that reveals the truth of what the kind of villain is capable of. But it's this idea of someone who is going through society making people who otherwise would never do something like this somehow able to snap and bringing out the violence in people. and I was wondering if that was part of the message of the movie, just this idea that just what would it take for just average people to snap or be pushed into these kind of situations? And it is a horrifying idea, the power of language, the power of hypnosis,

this kind of concept. And a lot of Japanese horror does delve into these kind of ideas. Like, you just would never think of otherwise. What pops into my head is that spiral? I think it's a movie. just crazy concepts that mess with your head beyond just the imagery of it, you know, where there's just more to it where you're thinking about it. Spiral, not the song?

Is there a different spiral or are you confusing the shit out of a title? No, no, I'm pretty sure it's called Spiral. It's like a short story that I think was adapted into a movie. Oh, is it year 2000 on IMDB? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've never actually seen the movie version. I've only ever read the book version. Okay.

Yeah, just some good horror coming from out of there. And I was kind of surprised in a way that it was kind of chucked in with the grudge and, you know, the ring and stuff. Yeah? Yeah, because I wasn't, I was reading it more as a sort of detective cop story as opposed to the horror side of it. Yeah, it was like a lot of things. Yeah. Whereas in the ring. It reminded me of like, I guess, ring or.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it has a few. It has a few of those elements in it, and I think that it's a really nice combination of those things. Right. It was mostly like audition for me, because it didn't focus on the gore or as much as... I mean, audition is very violent at the end. I don't want to spoil that movie, but it's very... Yeah, it's mostly focused on characters and just kind of building that tension and that disturbing kind of situation.

But also, it never seems too interested in indulging in the violence in the way a lot of... Right. That's what makes it work. There's a lot of implied violence, like the last shot of the movie. There's a lot more kind of subtle stuff like that that is a lot creepier than just diving in with your, you know, your zombie tigers ripping people apart. That's why it's like Fincher and stuff like that. Like they're really good noir movies. It's more about like, yeah, that kind of tone, like, well, yeah, yeah.

Maybe that's why Fincher was so in my mind because with your, you know, with your mind hunters and the horror that comes with dealing with characters. that are, you know, they are serial killers. It's obviously a little crossover with that. Yeah, and it's almost like a bit of like a trope in a way of having like the psychotic sort of like evil serial killer sort of thing. But the dynamic between them and the main character, it always winds up like putting the main character in such a worst place mentally trying to like, I guess, solve the mystery or whatever.

It's like it really unravels. the main character. And despite it being kind of a trap, it, like, I mean, it worked really well. It felt like very logical.

The main character had already, you know, his life was already a little weird, you know, his wife dealing with mental illness and like. He's unsatisfied as a character. He's not pleased with the position he's in. And he's,

yeah, that the villain is able to bring, he's able to see that and bring out of him. And that's basically what the power that this, this serial killer has. is a very short amount of time. He's got such a command over language. You can just pinpoint your weaknesses and take you down that way.

Yeah, there's a horrifying concept. When he does start to, I guess, kind of like freak out and break down and, like, throw his coffee and everything, it doesn't feel like it comes out of nowhere. It genuinely feels like it's escaping from somewhere that's just been dormant in this character the entire time. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's emotionally repressed, isn't he? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which leads to where the movie kind of culminates with that final sequence with him challenging the serial killer and actually taking him out. But then the more interesting beat of him finding this phonograph and listening to it, and then it's down to you to kind of interpret what happens from there.

What are your theories about that final scene and what is going on there? I was a little bit torn on whether it was more him taking over and kind of, you know, you know, using the what you heard on the phonograph to maybe adopt what he was able to do or I think that's the implication the phonograph yeah or did the phonograph have something that continued to hypnotize and to continue doing it well I mean I think it kind of like you could argue that it brings it into more of like a supernatural element where it's not so much like hypnotism anymore and it's more like some sort of a curse you could say yeah demonic they're always mentioning demons yeah and like if you're going to tie it into this whole ancient like oh and these people

did this x carving in the 1800s or whatever they were saying like if you're going to tie it that far back then i think it kind of heavily implies some sort of supernatural element like if you're going to have like this long chain of hypnosis you know similar murders they're making kind of cultish didn't they? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think that's the implication. Another thing that's kind of interesting to think about is like, you know, in a way, despite the villain failing to make the main character commit murder in a particular way, in a way he kind of actually did do that, you know, because he got the main character to kill him. So whether or not it was like just a suggestion, hypnotism thing in the way that the other characters fell victim to. to in the end he's still you know because of

you know his you could argue his words but also his actions but like he got at the main character in a way that he did get him to commit a murder whether or not it was in the way that he ideally would have wanted right so right yeah and it's a bleak ending too it's not this isn't one that's going to cheer up your days it's about exploring this idea of what you know

what happened someone like this was that loose in Japan you know I really loved the sound design also. There's certain moments where they play a lot with the background white noise. And so in certain hallucinations or sequences, like when the villain was starting to hypnotize the nurse or whatever, during the moment where you hear his spoken dialogue, and then she like comes out of it after he like splashes some water on her face or whatever.

That's when like the white noise kicks back in where it's like before that moment it's like everything else disappeared except his voice. And then we see that exact same editing choice reflected later when he's having the main character is having the hallucination of his wife hanging herself in the kitchen. The moment he snaps out of that suddenly you hear this extra background noise where like you hear like an airplane passing over and like everything else that's just like back. into reality that you didn't know was missing before, right? Like, everything's completely silent except for the most obvious direct things you're supposed to focus on.

But then it's like, oh, you snap out of the hallucination and suddenly, like, the full range of everything you're supposed to be hearing is back. So, yeah, I like, I thought that hallucination scene was one of the best moments for me where it was really starting to come together in terms of, oh, this is what this movie is going for. there's way more cleverness here. It's subverting what I'm expecting a bit more because in that moment I was with the character. I was not expecting for a second for that, you know, that horror trope at this point for the, you know, the fake scare within some dream or they wake up or whatever.

But it reinforces the character and what he's going through and that mental degradation he's going through. I thought that was a great, great choice. Yeah, it worked really well. Did not feel unjustified and it didn't feel like it came like two. out of nowhere or anything. Yeah. We're aware that that character was already suffering mentally,

and so it feels like a perfectly reasonable thing to happen in the film's universe at that point. You don't just think like, oh, that's a dream immediately or anything, you know, which happens so often in so many other horror movies. It's like, yeah, this is not happening. They haven't do that. Yeah, such a boring trope at this point. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

It's nice to be reminded of how, you know, to do it properly. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. One of the films that I thought that this kind of reminded me of is, um, cachet, Michelle Hanukkah. Yeah, no, I had to, yeah, because I saw that for the first time a few months ago, and it was really reminding me of that. Mm-hmm.

With a bit more of the subtlety of the commentary. Because the camera does feel like you're kind of like, voyeuristic watching, you know? The shots, yeah. Yeah, the voyeuristic. Yeah, claustrophobic. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Very brisk pacing. It's not very slow at all. It's not a very long movie. It's under two hours, I think. It's under two hours, hour 50. Yeah. Yeah, it flies by. And also, uh, practical effects.

The, uh, bled, yeah, like, gore, body. None of that felt, like, that, like, really weird, you know. It looked like a real body. Yeah. It was disturbing. It had an impact on, like, the movie we just saw, a bunch of zombies spool up and it just had no meaning.

Blah, blah, blah, pal. It looked like CGI. this movie had actually had a visceral reaction out of me because it had a story around it and there was like an impact to that body like it's actually important was there any point where the hypnosis thing was bugging you at all no not really at the start at the very start

the movie I was wondering like so the only way this is like surely that the only way this is possible is like through some kind of hypnosis thing that must be yeah some kind of magical realism Yeah, like what else could be? Maybe a magic stone or something. And I think because they lean into the horror, more mystical culty side of it, that makes it work as opposed to, because another annoying trope too is like amnesia, you know? And like they don't really try to play with you too much in terms of holding you off till the end. It's like, oh, is this guy really got amnesia or not type stuff?

I'm glad they don't mess around with that too much because that kind of. get repressive and annoying, but it's just enough. I think what helps is like in so many other horror movies when they use like hypnosis or amnesia as a part of the plot device, they treat the science behind it

as if it's just something or it's like, oh, of course, like yeah, amnesia works this way or yeah, of course, hypnosis works this way. But in this film, the main character is actively asking these questions and he's kind of shut down every time he tries to follow that lead. So he's talking with his friend who is like a, I don't remember,

remember if he was like a psychiatrist or what kind of credentials he had. He had some sort of credentials, but he's talking with this other friend that he sees in the movie. And he's like, do you think it's possible that someone could be hypnotizing this way? And whenever he's asking these questions, he's like, no, there's something not right about this. It's not really how things kind of work, right? So we get that sort of like inquisitive question, but we know that the movie isn't treating us as if we're stupid by pretending like these things work in ways that they don't. Yeah, that scene was for me. That was for people who were thinking about that exact thing. Yeah. And it does put it to the back of your mind. You're like, oh, this movie is thinking about

this in ways that, yeah, they're ahead of me. So let's go. Yeah. That's exactly why it helps, I think. Yeah. Great, great oneers, great filming style. Nothing wrong with the performances at all. No. Good music. I remember the opening song at the beginning had this like nice little, It was like this weird kind of like jaunty, happy piano song, but there were just enough notes that didn't feel like they fit within the chord that it gave this like kind of weird, almost like... It was unnerving. Housu kind of like weird kind of creepiness vibe to it.

That was perfect, especially just, you know, because there's a murder that happens within the song. And then, yeah, I guess finally the very interesting visuals with the end credits as they go up the screen. Mm-hmm. These, like, sharp, empty spaces. It's like cutting, yeah. You can only, like, read the full line when it's, like, in the direct center,

and it's, like, broken and damaged at the sides or at the top and bottom. Anything else to say about this film? I think it was just really solid all round. It's just nice to go to some, you know, some really solid horror. Yeah. Good 90s horror. Yeah. I'm glad I watched it.

And out of the, you know, of that list of films that's kind of lumped in with, I don't know, I like the approach of this one, I think, I think the most, maybe your audition,

I sort of pair, pair with it, but yeah, there is just something about how reserved it is. I love reserved filmmaking when it's pulled off in this way, because you still get all the beats

you want and expect, but it's just in a way you weren't, you know. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Anticipating necessarily. I agree.

And just all the creepy imagery of like the crosses and like the way, you know, when that guy, he starts losing his mind and he doesn't even realize he's like scratched the, the accent to his wall. Yeah, the classic kind of horror stuff that you want. Mm-hmm. That was all captured really well.

And this idea of the main character, he's, I don't know if it was sort of a comment on the workaholic nature of culture there with him. He's trying to juggle his life as being this detective with his husband. Yeah, I like the main character a lot in his, his conflict. Mm-hmm. Awesome. I'm giving this one a 7 out of 10 for now. It's closer to an 8 than a 6, and I could see myself raising it in the future. I will watch it again at some point. It was great. Yeah, I think I'm there with you. I'm going to say a four star for this. I definitely need to see it again, but I was very pleasantly entertained by this one. just this classic horror we're talking about the Japanese approach

just taking a concept like this hypnotism and working it into a horror setting that doesn't take me out of it is a real accomplishment to me I'd really recommend this full star yeah sure I was going to go the same eight or four out of five

yeah four out of five is I think it's about on the level of audition or something like that It's disturbing It's a disturbing It's a disturbing Japanese horror movie I think audition's better

It's good But I think so too Slightly better I like audition a lot I do too I think I like it a lot more Both good movies

I like it more Yeah it's an eight out of ten It's a good movie Before we get into Question time I notice we could fill up A bit more time here

There was one thing that I kind of forgot to mention last episode when we were talking about Shrek. There was the point that I was going to break up that's kind of like a part of like a longer conversation. I guess it could be as long as you wanted to. But there's this weird

thing I noticed with like the plot of Shrek 4, Shrek forever after, where so Rumpelstiltskin is the way that he tricks Shrek into giving up a day is he says, we'll just take one day from when you were a baby and you don't even remember.

just a random day you were a baby and then trek comes to find out oh no he took the day i was born but if you think about it doesn't have to be the day that you're born like if you want to trek out of existence you'd take the day that he was conceived not the day he was born because you're still alive before the day you're born and after the day you're born right so if the implication is to say because the day doesn't exist where you were in the you know exiting the wood boom, then you never left the womb, then, like, I don't know, would you just still be in the womb the day after and then just move it towards, forward a day? Because you could take away the day that someone turns age three. That doesn't necessarily, you know, if we're following the logic

of the movie, that doesn't necessarily mean that they would never turn three. You just assume it happens the day after, right? Okay. He definitely mess with Shrek's dad. Yeah. They were trying to do like a back-to-the-future thing. Well, because if, let's say, if you took away the day he was conceived, and so Shrek's dad doesn't come and mama's rec. Because, like, the whole point was Marty's parents didn't bang, so he didn't exist. Yeah. Right, that was the whole point.

So that's what Shrek should have been. But then he wouldn't have been able to trick him because he wouldn't, he wouldn't be accurate when he said just a day when you were a baby that you don't remember. So he wouldn't have been able to trick him if he was kind of weird wording. Just wanted to throw that out there to see what you guys thought. Okay. Yeah. Shrek's,

Shrek force still good. I've ruined it. I don't think I'd, yeah, I don't think I would lower my rating. Yeah, I don't think I'm ever going to think about that movie the same way ever again. I don't really want to think of like ogres really impregnating each other if I'm being real. A bunch of ogres. Shrek's parents.

Yeah, that's what we need to see. Was like a different ogre born with the same DNA then, do you think? I don't know. In that timeline? Elseworld Shrek If they took away the day that he was conceived Then a different ogre would have been born Because he would have

Daddy Shrek would have banged on a different day And so it would probably be a different sperm You know Actually speaking of sperm Oh Did you see what the Sony executive said about Venom in the MCU Regarding our little bet

Me and Ralph have going Oh. Yeah. I saw somebody posted on the subreddit. Yeah. This is the quote from Sony executive Sanford Panich. There actually is a plan to connect Sony's Spider-Man universe to the MCU. It's getting a little more clear for people where we're headed,

and I think when no way home comes out, even more will be revealed. So it looks like you're about to be 50 bucks rich at Ralph. That's right. Maybe I was wrong all along. Although... I figured it would happen because... I want to say my original bet would have been with the parameters that... It's like proper MCU integration.

I'm not talking about some stupid Tom Hardy showing up for one second in No Way Home as a little cameo. Yeah, that's probably what's going to happen, right? They're going to do alternate universes because, like, everybody from every Spider-Man movie is going to be in No Way Home, right? So it's going to be references the movie. in which case I don't know if that counts as losing the bet I mean you'd have to interpret the words as literally as possible we'll have to go back and listen again yeah yeah someone else can leave a comment and decide

I just want to throw that out there now we got another day if you didn't specify then unfortunately I think you lost yeah if I didn't specify it's on me I'm gonna have to go back yeah either way it hyped you know yeah as the day comes closer to the release of Venom 2 let there be carnage

Let there be carnage That's a funny title You gotta respect the film That's coming out soon Lots of movies coming out Question time Be a big ear Yeah let's do some questions

From the Salonaccomst community Yeah if you want to leave your own pizza times For us to answer in the future Head over to the subreddit There's a suggestion thread The baby from mother is going to start off What is one of the weirdest casting choices that actually worked out for the better.

Good username, by the way. Hmm. Honestly, for me, what pops into my head is Cameron Diaz in being John Malkovich. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great thing. Because whenever I think of Cameron Diaz, I'm not thinking of her performances. Yeah, true, true. But her specifically considering, you know, the rest of her career and some of what she's

known for. Yeah, John Cusack is a. big one for me from that movie really because like that I don't know if I've really liked him that much in other movies it feels like a real like character what's his big one on the record shot uh say anything is that what it's called

no what's it called I don't think so I know the poster high fidelity it's been so long since I've seen yeah high fidelity yeah I've seen him in that but that's all I really associate him with um hot tub time machine. Oh.

I think the actor Channing Tatum has some decent roles where he's actually proven he's like Yeah. Like good. That's true actually. Fox Catcher. Like that's he's good in it, I think. And you know, he's in dumb shit too, 21 Jump Street. I think he's more versatile than like I would give him credit for initially.

I think in his early career he was pretty bad to. Mm-hmm. And I think like Fox Catchers. a standout performance. You can get like really typecast, you know, if you just, if you're an actor in a certain role. He was in side effects too. Being profitable. Yeah, side effects is good.

Magic Mike. I didn't see Magic Mike. I heard good things. He's in the hateful eight really briefly. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. The same thing was happening to Robert Pattinson at one point. You know, he was in twilight and remember me in some bunch of bullshit and then he started he started filming

real movies. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I remember reading an interview of Tayton saying that it was those G.I. Joe movies that harmed his career more than anything and that it was a real battle overcoming the image from being in those. Yeah, that's what sucks is like

the way that films get greenlit, the people in charge of giving, allocating the funds to the films, all they see is, is this going to have people in it that were in a big blockbuster last year? Right? They don't want anybody that was in a flop. so fucking what happened to Miles Teller like Fant Forstic you know like did that kill his career

What's he been doing? Yeah Right he was in Whiplash basically I mean he'll be back in the new top gun he's in that Yeah like what has he been doing it did some serious harms his career I'm sure it did Yeah it must have he got beating up the other day I think Fawc's a huge bomb yeah yeah it really sucks just how fragile that is like Yeah like Michael B Jordan was able to escape that. Josh Trank,

I don't know. He made Capone. Oh yeah, that came out. I don't think I saw it. No, I didn't. I saw it. Capone, yeah. It's an interesting. He poops himself

in the movie. Oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. There's quite a few actors out there that, you know, they do a bunch of shit roles and then just There's one role where it's like, oh, yeah, you're an actor. Like, Jim Carrey's always been very eccentric, but Eternal Sunshine, I think, really lets him shine as an actor. Sure.

Eternal Sunshine, Truman Show. Truman Show, yes, but Truman Show is like so, it's a great movie and a great performance. Don't get me wrong. But it's so close to what I'd imagine from him in the first place. Whereas Eternal Sunshine, he's playing such a more, like, shy and reserved character with, like, you know, very, subtle like mental problems and like he feels like a real it feels like a real departure he's not like so outward yeah yeah it's a departure but it's still it's a good role for him like it's not quite number 23 or some like dark crimes or it's called it's too much where you can't really

take it seriously because it's like Jim Carrey but he's like a really dramatically Eternal Sunshine's perfect you know yeah bittersweet romantic like drama yeah very good tone and and Truman Show too like that one. It's a comedy, but at its heart, it's like more of a drama, you know, I'd say. There's a, there's some movies where comedic actors try to break into a dramatic role, and it doesn't work so well. Like, uh, butterfly effect and, uh, who was that?

Ashton Coucher. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And, uh, saw a spiral, but I guess you'll find out when you see it. it. That'll be a matter of opinion. Oh, I can't wait to hear what you say about it. I can't wait to hear what both of you say about it. Yeah, I'm hyped.

Chris Rock. It's, uh, I don't know. I'll let you figure it out on your own. Okay. Let's do this one then from Cindy Z-Y-K. Have you guys ever tried to learn a second language? How competent are you with it? in what way does it affect your film viewing?

You guys got any second languages going? I learned what French and a bit of Spanish in school, but aside from that, I never read. Yeah, in school I learned a little bit of Italian. I'm not that fluent, though. You got anything, Adam? Yeah, in Canada, they do like French immersion in schools, so you can either have your kid do their entire schooling in English or their entire schooling in French, basically, learning the exact same subjects just with different language from a teacher.

and I was in French immersion up until the end of grade three. And my brother was in French immersion for his entire schooling. So he lives in Montreal now because he was fluent in French just from having French immersion. I know a bit of French. There's no good reason why I should have been removed from French immersion. I don't know why. I got a C in social studies. And my parents were like, he must not understand the language.

And then I got moved into English and then grade four I got a C in social studies because I don't give a shit. I don't like history and I don't like maps. Anyway, yes, I know a bit of French. I know a little bit of Japanese, more French than Japanese, but I've been trying some of those like language learning apps. There's like Duolingo and Lingo deer. Duolingo, yeah. And they're helpful, but the problem is just like the amount of consistent commitment

that you need to put on it. And if you fall off that routine and it's not a habit anymore, then it's really difficult to get back on. but at the same time, every time I do get back on to one of those, I feel like I still retain a lot of where I left off. Like it doesn't just exit my mind forever, even if I take a break for a while. Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, learn a tiny bit of German and a bit of Japanese, and I would love to learn Korean, but it's very difficult. And I feel like I would probably need like a tutor to help that process. And also to help with the commitment. Because if you're paying somebody, then it's a lot easier to justify. I doing it on a routine. Yeah. Yeah, the, I guess the biggest hack with this language,

getting our grips over it. The best way I've heard it go down is just when people, they have to move country, go to live in Spain for a few years. You're just surrounded by it. You just gradually, over the months, start picking it up, like you're saying with French in school or whatever. But do you find it actually assists when you're watching French cinema or anything? know some of the words because I mean

I mean you know what's funny though foreign language cinema you'd think that learning another language would like assist you in a way and I like you could make that argument but it just makes you more aware of how inaccurate subtitles are because you have to like not only trans it's not like a word for word translation because not every language

orders the words in different ways like like you you find out that you're asking a question in Japanese only at the like syllable kha at the very end, right? Or hence lost in translation. Yeah. So there's things that like, especially when you write dialogue where there's like a very cultural understanding to that line or if you write a line in a film where a character

confuses one word for another, it's like, okay, then you have to find two words that rhyme. And you can't use the exact same words that were in the original definition because they don't rhyme. So you have to kind of like create a new line that the original writer didn't intend. You know? Yeah. That's the art of translation, isn't it? Either that or don't have them rhyme.

And then that can be weird too, right? Right? So, or just like common colloquial expressions or whatever. Like, sometimes you really just have to, like, adjust that to the culture, really. And that's why subtitles are so weird sometimes. Yeah. Like, Germany, they've got a bunch of bespoke words that just we don't have translations for. Mm-hmm.

So, yeah, it gets. It gets pretty crazy when you're dealing with all the different languages. I just feel like I'm missing so much with some of these foreign language films that I just know that when it's in my native tongue, I'm not missing some of the inflections and to be free. There's so much. If you're fluent in a language, then you might as well just watch it without subtitles, you know? Yeah, yeah. And you'll get the pure experience of it, I guess. So we have a fucked up one here from...

Deleted. They actually deleted their account after leaving this. Oh. Hypothetical question for Adam and Ralph. An evil wizard casts a hex on you, which prevents you from watching any of your top 50 favorite movies. If you try to turn on any version of any of these films, the screen is black and you cannot hear a thing.

If you try to listen to the score alone, you won't hear anything. If you try to read its screenplay, you won't understand a word you see. The Wizard offers you a deal. He says he will restore your abilities to watch your 50 favorite films if you can just do one thing.

Watch all of the Madagascar movies, including the Penguins of Madagascar, every day for a year. Keep in mind that's about six hours a day. You can't put it on while you're working or sleeping and you can't watch it with friends or under the influence of drugs or alcohol. You must give your full attention

to all four films every day. If you cannot do this, then you can never watch the likes of the Holy Mountain or Goodfellas. What do you do? Oh, no. But then wouldn't my new favorite 50 films be the ones that I could actually watch then? But you'd have to write off the Holy Mountain in Goodfellas, right, or whatever's in your top 50.

You could never watch it again. It would be kind of like, you know, that Danny Ball movie where the Beatles stop existing apart from that one guy. Yeah, I know. I'm just trying to understand the parameters of what exactly that means. Like, I can't even think about it in my head or no.

Because if I can't even, like, read it or listening to, like, I won't understand. I won't understand the words in the... I just wouldn't watch movies anymore. Well, I mean, there's still a lot of great movies out there. 50 is a lot to get rid of, unfortunately. I guess I had my Philip Goodfellas. I don't think I'd watch Madagascar.

The Madagascar movies every day. That's fucking crazy. If I could do it while I was working or under the influence of something or sleeping. Any one of those, if I could just have it on my phone while I'm like cooking food or something, that would be cool. But the fact that they wrote it so that I, what, I have to like fucking keep my eyelids open? Like, not allowed to like see anybody like six hours out of my day. That would be like no free time if I'm still working, you know? It would be like an extra job.

for a year just to return the Holy Mountain. Yeah, no, I don't, I wouldn't do it. I would, I would, uh, surely discover more movies over time and there's plenty of movies to appreciate it. Yeah. So. Because there's three more movies you could be watching a day pretty much in those six hours. Yeah.

Yeah. I can respect that. What about you, rough? I don't know. I don't think I could do it. That's too much. And the reason that question wasn't for Alex is because, he, of course he would do it.

Yeah, it's not even a challenge for me. It's pointless, I already do that. Yeah. It's stronger men than me. Cool. Including the Penguins movies? That does, that does sort of, you know, that does make it a bit more difficult, but, you know,

what, that's only, what, an hour and 20 minutes extra, whatever. Yeah, for a year. Yeah, but times a year. That's only one year, and we'll get to bring back some goodies. Yeah. Yeah, I guess if I had to, I mean, what a choice to have. It's a good to have.

It's a lot of that or not watch Goodfellas again, right? Candide Unicorn has one for us. I've had this thought lately, and I'm wondering if I'm alone on it. With CG phasing out 2D animation as an art form, many very rightfully feel that 2D animation isn't respected by the industry. Ironically, I feel that this has led audiences down the path of disrespecting CG animation as an art form too, often seeing it as a lazy inferior shortcut.

Do you see any truth to this? What are some examples of CG animation that you consider to be worthy of praise? Question is right. There's a stigma against that. Against CG animation for that reason. Because in Norm of the North. And shit like that.

No, it's not... And I think it is partly that. But yeah, it isn't lazy at all. It's CG animated films we talk about all the time that look great. Mainly Dreamworks, Pixar, Rango. And maybe a lot of budgeted stuff, but it doesn't come to the top of my head. Yeah. I don't think 2D animations like shit on either as much.

I don't know. Or disrespected. Yeah, I guess it was more... It's always associated with kids, and that's usually where it's disregarded, right? And because all kids' content used to be 2D stuff or stop motion or whatever. And CGs come in. It's cheaper. Yeah.

I feel like there's more variety now. There's 2D animation for adults. there's 3D animation for adults. It's like, you know, I feel like there's so much variety out there. I don't know, because I feel, there's obviously a lot of talent that goes into computer animation, and I have a lot of respect for it, especially when it's done really well. But I don't, if we're comparing that type of animation to other types of animation, I have yet to see a computer animated film that I feel is like a very personal masterpiece sort of thing.

thing, you know, like something that's like from one person expressing one person's idea, whereas obviously, you know, stop motion, we've seen Mary and Max, we've seen an Amalisa. You know, you could argue like, fantastic Mr. Fox is like, you know, that's a Wes Anderson sort of thing. You know, in 2D traditional animation, you could find films like Ralph Bakshi film. Like that's a really good example of like someone's, you know, that's what I love the most about movies. And that's the experience that I try to get out of it is like, I want to see something that's by someone. And it just breathes their essence. And I learn about the person creating it by watching it.

And I have yet to find that for like a computer animated film. Maybe people can give me some recommendations. Maybe I'm not thinking of one properly. But like my favorite computer animated film is like, I don't know, Ratatouille, right? And that's like just like a Pixar movie. And say like most Pixar movies. Yeah. Like Brad Bird directing the Incredibles.

But that's not, no, because that still feels like the Pixar movies blend into each other, right? You swap out the directors, you basically have the same movie. I don't feel that way about that era. I don't feel that way about some of their earlier stuff like Incredible specifically. I feel like that's such a Brad Bird movie. Yeah. I don't know. That one's got a lot of personality.

It's not like a personal, like, it's not like anomalisa quite. But it doesn't have to be. I think that's the expression of Brad Bird, as a. and as a filmmaker is to make pop art like that. You know, I don't think it's any lesser. But the CG animation on the scale of a project like Incredibles, it's just so expensive. And especially what was that, 2004,

they were pioneering the technology and whereas, like, stop motion anyone can do in their garage sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah, it's more personal, right? Yeah, I think it doesn't be. What have we seen, like, food? No, it's not called Food Fight. I always ironically call it Food Fight.

Shit, what's the real thing? I'm actually a sausage party. Yeah, sausage party. Yeah, that's right. Which I don't actually like, but that's like one of the only examples of a... Right, that's what I mean. It's so cheap. It's just like crappy.

Like, it just sucks. Yeah, like, yeah, made by slave labor, basically. Yeah, I'm just, I'm still waiting for something that I feel has that type of like really well-made, but also personal quality to it that I, that I love out of films. And, like, I mean, CG animation is really expensive, but it's, like, there are people that can create things independently. But from what I've seen, like, on, I don't know what it is about it. Like, I guess I'm not, like, super involved in the process because if I see a CG animated YouTube channel and there's a bunch out there that create their own things, half of them are really, like, shitposty where they're, like, trying to make something that looks stupid and weird. And I think it might just be, like, a part of the process.

but then you look at like 2D animators that are posting their own short things that they're creating basically by themselves like Don Hertzfeldt or I need to look at the name of this guy what is his name? He made Double King Felix Colgrave like fucking awesome animator

like Felix Colgrave made some great shit and they're so him and they're so they feel like super high production value I don't know if he's the only animator or whatever but like that's like a shorter version of what I'm looking for I haven't seen like a feature length version of that in in CG really you know I just what about then something like the Lego movie you're a spiderverse both Lord and Miller yeah Lego movie Lego movie is my fit yeah I would say that's my I keep forgetting about it you know I always say Ratatooie but it's actually

Lego movie but again like Lego movie although that's very much like a Lord Miller thing and that's the reason for its success. It's also the Lego movie. It's also a movie of Legos and Batman Legos. But the actual, that was where the technology was perfect for the story though, because that using CG to create and then within the limitations of the Lego world animate within that style too, to make it kind of look like fan films. I know what you're saying. That's still not quite what I'm talking about, though. I still haven't been satisfied in what I'm looking for. Spider-verse as well. I'd say that's a good example. Yeah, because then go next to Spider-Verse where it's Lord and Miller again,

but the visual styling is what makes that movie stand out. Yeah, there are CG movies that have interesting visual styles for sure. It's just nothing that's quite satisfied this craving, you know? Yeah, but they're so personal these styles to like them. Like, Incredibles is Brad Bird. Like, I don't think any other Pixar movie looks like that or feels like that, except for Incredibles too, maybe. And that's it.

Like, I just, and the same thing with Spider-Verse. There's a ton of personality in that movie's animation. I want to watch a movie where it doesn't feel like it's gone through entire teams of people to sign off on aspects in the movie before it gets to me. You know? Yeah. That's kind of what I'm looking for. But making these movies is so expensive.

Exactly. That's impossible. Yeah, that's what I mean. The scales of these CG movies. They usually just aim for a very general audience. or as general as they can go. I don't think it's necessarily impossible, but you'd need like a really hands-off producer

with a lot of money who just doesn't care about whether they get back. Yeah, exactly. They're starting to get a bit more creative because there's such a baseline of just how an animated movie looks now. They have to do things to actually stand out a bit to show themselves out in the crowd.

So like that Peanuts movie from a few years ago, that actually had a unique style of animation for a CG kind of movie. Even Pixar's trying things now, this upcoming movie that's set in Italy, different kind of designs, color palettes, and lighting everything.

So it was a little bit different than what they're usually doing. I think we are seeing, it's going in an exciting direction now that the technology is just so insanely photorealistic. Really, you can just do anything. You know,

and as the technology gets cheaper, the options just become more and more endless. Yeah. Hopefully. More of those independent artists will come out. Yeah, because even on like Netflix with these shows, like Love Death and Robots,

which I think some of the animators, art directors from Spider-verse, at least in that first season, there's an episode that uses an extremely similar kind of style. So you can find kind of these examples out there, but it is just sort of low-key at the moment. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, we'll see what happens. I'm excited and looking forward for things to grow. Yeah, just any, all this tech stuff is interesting and just how it can, it levels the playing field, so then it's just the stories that have to come through, the creativity that's to shine through in some way. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I wish 2D was still a thing that studio just wanted to do, though.

I feel like there's always going to be like a little bit of like, resentment for a lot of people. Yeah, I resent Disney majorly for that. Because, I mean, you can't put just a little bit of that just insane amount of money you're making, just a bit, just on these little passion projects that, you know, that strike at what the company used to be about, what its history is in. They don't really deliver anything like that anymore. It's cool to have this new CG 3D era, but it would be nice also if they had some like true

2D passion projects, but they just kind of gave up after the princess and the frock, I guess it was. Which is like, really, you gave up after that one? Yeah, that was their self-fulfilling prophecy of like, let's take this side script and these like side songwriters and then we'll see if 2D is still profitable, but we won't put our best efforts and all of our resources into it. Oh, it wasn't as profitable as the other ones that we did. put our our best efforts into. I guess nobody wants to see 2D animated films anymore.

Let's stop that. It must be because it was 2D and not because we didn't put our best efforts into it. Fuck yourself. Yeah, it's very long. Yeah. Butter 467 has one for us. What are some of the most overused songs you've seen in movies? Like in the movie themselves or like just...

Just in general, songs you're sick of hearing in movies like I think of, um, um hallelujah and like covers of that song there was one i think in in in the credits of in yeah yeah that was in the credits of uh snider cut wasn't it like a cover and it's in watchman yep what's that fucking song that was in was it in trek three where it was um uh ah ah oh yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes that's Yeah, it's used too much, yeah. Immigrant song. Immigrant song. Immigrant song.

That's what it was. Yeah. Yeah, that one's kind of mean. It's in 4-3. It's in Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, the cover of it by Trent Rezner. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's an okay cover.

Yeah. Yeah. Any hit classic rock song from the 70s has been overdone to fucking death by this point. Dream on, dream on. Yeah. That's an R-Doh. Like literally any 70s classic rock song.

is like in the top 100 most overused songs of all time for me. Queen? Oh God. Bohemian Rhapsody is a suicide squad. It's in Bohemian Rhapsody. Yeah. That's a lot in marketing, of course, at least. Yeah.

Yeah, I keep getting mixed up in marketing too, because there are so many examples of songs that are abused in that. Even songs from the scores of movies, right? Isn't the score from 28 days later? Just like abused everywhere online. Sunshine. Every giant. Brian's popular score.

The Requiem for a Dream Luxeterna got reused and redone in many ways. Yeah. And it's always so weird hearing other film score songs get overused because it's like, I don't want to be thinking of a different film within this film's universe, you know? That's weird. It's worked fine in some documentary. It depends on the movie. Tarantino does it really well because his movies are different, but he's like an exception.

Yeah, and he also picks a lot of film scores from like, more obscure movies where he's just like, I'm just going to... Sure, they're more obscure. He's more of an exception, too. He's a very good ride to. He tends to use things pretty well in general. Right. Yeah.

Definitely. Yep. 70s classic rock. Pretty much my answer. It's the whole genre. It's overused. Yeah. Fuck.

Tarantino and Scorsese, they use music the best, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How do you feel about going back to theaters with the ambiguity surrounding vax slash unvaxed people? So I guess, I think I'm the only unvaxed person in this call right now.

I'm half-vaxed. Is that right? Oh, you're only half-vaxed. Okay. Yeah, I'm fully. I'm non-vaxed right now. No, yesterday. Yeah, I'm not interested in going to the theater until I have mine.

Sure. Yeah, same. I'm waiting. Yeah, right? it'll be all right everyone will be okay I mean get your vaccine

just waiting for my job yeah be safe step to the individual use uh yeah use protection yeah yeah I'm like

because I don't think it's been that hard on me not seeing things in theaters like the biggest ones where I was like oh come on you're releasing it and I have to wait

we're like ten it and saw spiral And after seeing those movies, I would be pissed at myself if I went to a theater to see that when it wasn't like safe or if let's say I like got COVID watching one of those movies, I could never forgive myself. Even if it was just mild symptoms. Just knowing that I got COVID because of Tenet or Saw Spiral, I would have like, I never would have forgiven myself. Yeah. So was it worth it? Yeah. I'm getting more and more annoyed about that whole Tenet thing. Yeah, sure

Yeah Yeah The guinea pig Trial and error Could have done both Yeah I mean he's not working with Warner Brothers anymore

So I don't know Is that official I think he's just kind of bitched really loud I don't know Did he actually officially break it off Yeah like I don't know He must be really upset or something I don't know

What's going on Yeah Really upset over nothing Yeah He could just put it on VOT Well you upset at them for like doing an HBO Max thing for a year and only a year

when he didn't have any movies he was releasing. Yeah, yeah. During the unprecedented pandemic that was really... No one anticipated. He could have delayed Tenet. If he wanted a theater, he could have just delayed it. Because that I get. Yeah, but it's so weird that he just,

it's so insistent that it had to be out now. His movie was basically the only one out. Like, it was the only one in theaters. Yeah. That was new. It was the invisible man and then tenet. Like, which you said, it was like February. But when I went to see it, there was only like one of the person in the whole entire theater.

Yeah. I'm curious how that's going to go. Yeah, it was just really, that was pretty ridiculous. Yeah. Of course, it's a Chris Nolan film, but I'll go see it no matter what. Yeah. Was Creweller in theaters? Yes.

People rushing out to see that one? Yeah. Yeah. That would do that. I don't know how to see so out. Yeah. I'll be seeing old in theaters. It's on Disney Plus for $30

So it'd actually be cheaper to fucking just see a theater Yeah there you go Unless you got a family of four Yeah I got a family of four No individual tickets Yeah it'll be interesting to see what happens I'm looking for you know I'm excited to see things start opening up again

To normal capacity but also Provided that it's done safely Who knows who knows It would be trepidatious until the new Marvel movie comes out and then everyone's just going to forget, you know, it's going to be just back to know. Right.

When Black Weddell comes out, you'll see. When the Eternals hit screens, everyone's going to be. Yeah, no one's going to be thinking about COVID at that point. Thank. All right. I guess it's time for a film recommendation for next episode. I'm picking a film from 2009 directed by Sam Ramey called Drag Me to Hell and we're going to have a special guest to talk about that.

Jenny Nicholson is going to be joining us. Nice. And we'll also probably talk a bit about Curella also. So yeah, if you don't want spoilers for any of those movies, then watch them before the next episode. These episodes come out every two weeks. You can listen to them early. If you go to Sardonicast.com, sign up for premium.

$2 a month. You'll get the episodes early. I can't even talk anymore. Sardonicast.com. I'll put patreon.com slash sardonicast does the same thing. You're right. I'm fine.

We got merch also. Proceeds from the merch will go to my Alzheimer's diagnosis tests. Fuck. Have a Shrek-tastic day, everybody.

Yeah, it sounds like that. you shrek shrek everybody thanks for listening shrek his love shrek his life bye bye