Sardonicast - Sardonicast 95: Free Guy, Pig, Her

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Buy Sardonicast T-Shirts, and other merchandise at https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast. Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthe... Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovi... Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Ralph's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ralphthemovie... Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkind... Fan art: https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/... https://www.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/... https://www.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/... Timestamps: Timestamps: 0:00 - Intro 1:15 - Bo Burnham: Inside 3:10 - Free Guy 34:39 - Pig 47:37 - Her 1:27:34 - Q&A 1:27:45 - What actors are capable of giving a 1/10 performance and a 10/10 performance? 1:31:40 - What media copyright cases have fascinated you guys? 1:43:19 - Most overrated video game franchise? 1:47:15 - What do you think is the best way to put adult jokes into kids media? 1:51:40 - Ralph recommends The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (1974)

Three, two, one. I'm a special kind of white guy. That's from Bob Ernam's Inside. Nice. I'm Adam. Your movie sucks. This Sardana cast. I'm Ralph from Ralph.

And I'm Alex Mojee. And I actually got that one because we have to, I have to address this from a couple of episodes ago. Yeah. The intro you did. Oh. The all three hot coffee pot. I'm not the most familiar with Eminem so that did, although I had seen that video, it was not in the back of the mind, so I just believed it was from Venom.

Yeah. Well, okay, so when you imagine that it was from Venom, what was the kind, like, did you have a, did you have an imagination of like the content? I figured it was in the Eminem song. Oh, okay, yeah. I thought it was from the Venom song, like one of the bars or some shit, because it's kind of that level, but no, it's like, wasn't it like a, it was like a Trump thing he did? Yeah.

It was like really cringy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It was like a really weird quote unquote freestyle that he did in like a parking garage. I didn't see that. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty funny. Uh-huh.

We might talk about Bob Ernam's insight at some point. There isn't really that much to say about it. I just kind of wanted to steal an intro for it. Two of us have seen it. I'm assuming we both like it. I don't know. What more can be said about it? Why don't we take the advice from Bob Ernam and just shut the fuck up, right?

Yeah, that's our review. Eight out of ten from me. I might give it a nine. Nine? Okay, cool. Cool. I missed out on this. Yeah, that don't worry about it.

It's, I mean... Have you seen any of Bo Burnham's other shit? Have you seen any of his name? I saw it's not familiar. I've seen eighth grade. Eighth grade is not, no, it's not comparable. His directoral... No, I've seen a couple of his songs before, you know, and some of his stand-up.

He's never, like, deeply delved in. Two other Netflix. specials, right? And basically Inside is just like the combination of his old YouTube content plus his newer stand-up specials. So it's like a very well-produced you could call it a film, although it was

nominated for Emmys and it was considered a TV special, I guess. It's a stand-up special, I guess. I don't know. There was no live audience. But it's like an experimental film where he just combines a bunch of songs together that are, you know, he filmed by himself with like really creative lighting and blah blah blah blah everybody should see it i don't know it's difficult to have a really

lengthy conversation on without just like repeating the exact same ideas and themes that he's just explicitly stating in yeah in the project you know where it's like yes i agree yeah you know it kind of just it captures the like emotion and feel of like 2020 in the lockdown and just what that means and how everyone can relate to that yeah it just captures that feeling really really well yeah it's a It's a very special and unique little capsule, and I'm glad it exists. So everybody check it out. It's on Netflix. I didn't see the next movie we're going to talk about, so I can actually shut the

fuck up. Free guy, something I will never watch. Please spoil the whole thing for me. I wish this movie would shut the fuck up. There's a little spoil. Yeah. No, no, you're forgetting this. There's big spoilers here.

rather. Yeah, yeah. The plot's very dense. Yeah, so Free Guy is the latest Ryan Reynolds vehicle. I guess it came out a while ago now, but people are still talking about it, of course. It's really resonant, but it's, yeah, it's like a video game movie. It's the latest gamer, Reddit movie, where it's using a bunch of IP you know and just imagery you recognize to tell the most, like, a cliche, generic, just corporate love story that has no identity of its own, really no reason to exist,

to be honest. Like, it's an action comedy where the comedy isn't funny and the action is just unbearable to watch. Yeah, and lame. CGI heavy, uh, no tension. Ryan Reynolds is terrible. Ryan Reynolds is just awful. They live and ready player one smash together.

Yeah, it reminded me of ready player one. I think it's a little bit better than that, just because it was more straightforward. Really? I think it's worse. Yeah. Yeah. And that's big for me because I can't stand Ready Player 1 at 2. I really can't.

But the rules of the Ready Player 1 universe as stupid as they are, they're more consistent. And I could at least understand that, whereas the rules in Free Guy, I know it's like a comedy. So if it's funny to you, then this wouldn't matter. But it's just so uninterested in the whole game. a side of it. So many of the jokes are at the expense of its own audience, which I found so strange. It seems to have a lot of contempt for the idea of video games

and the people who play them. Loads of jokes at the expense of like, I kept thinking of that World of Warcraft South Park episode, which is actually a funny kind of commentary on that kind of stuff. But in Free Guy, they're like doing some of the similar jokes that from like the South Park were doing decades ago. but without being people who play games, it seems so obvious.

Like, there's so many weird details. Like, for example, there's a scene where they're kind of figuring out that the free guy himself is, he's like an AI that's, or I guess, spoilers for free guys, sorry, guys. Yeah, I said it. The very first thing I said, spoilers, don't worry.

We're covered. Yeah, Brian Reynolds is like an artificial intelligence that's learning. I know. And they keep kind of killing him in the game. He's one of the random NPCs. He's OS-1. like actually he's growing a conscious he's growing consciousness it reminded me of

Lego movie in that way where he's finding out he's unique kind of in a very like oh yeah the in a system that's what Lego movie's about matrix it's like oh he's the one he's unique yeah it was it reminded me of Lego movie like that yeah Freddie for a whole coffee gag and repeating the same boring day again and again it starts with like a fortnight thing like a guy air dropping out of the sky it's Channing Tatum like you know because everyone plays fortnight or like the audience for this movie so it has to start with them like dropping out of the sky. It's like the same thing with the Tomorrow War.

Like, come on. What is every movie have to start with like an airdrop for now? It's so pandering. If the people who wrote this film are not a part of the video game demographic, they would literally just look at sales numbers and be like, this is a video game. Let's incorporate this, right? Yeah.

It's like if Jimmy Kimmel wrote a movie about video games. I really got hung up at a certain point, though. I'd heard about some of the references that were in the movie, but I've forgotten about this. in kind of the climax of the movie where Ryan Reynolds fights the strong version of himself it devolves into this celebration of Marvel and Star Wars just out of nowhere like playing the music like he's swinging a lightsaber around and I was I was blown away by that sequence because it just comes out of nowhere and the humor is rooted in nothing and then they like whip out like a

portal gun and the half-life gun. So what, like, is this? This is the exact type of reference humor that has bothered me for, like, years now. But it's like that, but taken to the next extreme where, like, at least in Ready Player 1, there was some excuse for all those IPs to be there. I don't, why is Star Wars and Marvel in this in the way it was? And Chris Evans. Because Disney owns it.

Yeah. And Disney owns 20th century studios now. And I guess when the merger or. acquisition happened, perhaps they just kind of rewrote the ending. You never know. I mean, I'm making that assumption is what I'm saying. I would be surprised if that didn't happen. Ryan Reynolds uploaded to his YouTube channel, just a video advertising free guy using

Deadpool and call. Of course. Both of those actors are in the movie. So they're relying on it already acting as if, the whole concept is that it's an mpc from a video game coming to life so the whole thing is about video games what does marvel and star wars have to do with that i get that's how you saw things mega man yeah it's just because it's cynical on another level people like references yeah you're right it is cynical because they just think people like references yeah it's it was like almost an original IP or something but

they were like that it's just it's just reminded me that disney owns the whole thing they own basically every studio now it's just kind of creep me out yeah oh yeah like think of how many movies this year just this summer we're Disney, like, even with the mergers and all that. It's creepy. It's not with them that record-Rath movie. Jungle Book like this. It's kind of creepy. Yeah.

It's dystopia. Disney's just been out of control with it ever since that Rackett-Routh movie, which is everything we make now is just going to shove in all our IPs because everyone just loves it. And it's so often. It's like every other week with a Disney movie in some form. Yeah. It's like, you have the rights clearly to be able to shove in this like mega-man stuff and Half-Life stuff.

why do you not make that part of the story or whatever? And like, it's so confusing because the game's clear, or the world of free guys clearly like based on GTA online, right? But in the background, like vehicles from Halo are driving around. There's like a scorpion and a mantis from Halo 4. Very cool. It's like, what? Why?

It's like the Easter eggs in the background are part of why people like the movie because it's weirdly critically well-referical. receive. People like this movie. It's got like a 7.6 on IMDB right now. Really hot hair rotten tomatoes. Yeah. Scores because it just rewards the most like generic, unchallenging stuff possible. And it's just very formulaic. It's very bland. Metascore is 62. Interesting. That might be why it's a little more well received than Ready Player 1, which I just thought was a mess. This is everything you're saying, Alex, you're correct. It's just more of like a straightforward family movie. So it didn't annoy me. as much, you know? Also, people

fucking love Ryan Reynolds. Like, they fucking... I don't love him. I don't get it. Is that the thing? Because, like, it was so awkward when I was in the cinema watching this with, like, the British audiences. Like, there's a couple guys sniggering, but

man, it's... People love Ryan Reynolds, okay? They fucking love him. So is that what... It's required to work, because they'll have, like, a big audience that... They're ready. and already love Ryan Reynolds,

and they're just ready to laugh because it's him. Yeah, when's the last time Ryan Reynolds had a flop? He sells movies, right? Let's see. Green Lantern? That was a while ago. I don't know.

Ever since Deadpool, though, he's been unstoppable. Yeah. But, yeah, like, Tycho Wattiti is in there. He plays a villainous character, and I was so disappointed by him in the movie. I found the level of the joke writing. I don't know how you felt about it, Ralph, but it was one of the most of the most.

most irritating things to me. It was just joke writing so lazy, like, early on in the movie where he, he crashes into a wrecking ball, and then they play the song Wrecking Ball. And that's the joke. It's that level of comedy. Or even at the end, that sequence you're talking about with the Star Wars references, there's like an alternate version of Ryan Reynolds who comes out called Dude. And the joke is just like, it's Ryan Reynolds, but he's big, and he yells.

Like, it's weird. It sounds great. Yeah. He's just like, ah, okay. Did you notice that line early on, too, by the guy from Stranger Things, who's, of course, in it? Yeah, I actually thought he was okay. If there's one aspect of the movie, I liked him, and I liked the girl, whoever she was. I thought they were fine together.

It's just like Ryan Reynolds was terrible. Like, I just couldn't stand him. It was so annoying and not funny. But that Stranger Things kid had a funny line, because he's like a coder in the game where he's like an indie developer who's been like engulfed by, big AAA publisher type thing. So it's supposed to be kind of commentary on that. It's just like Banderstatch, like that Black Mirror episode was much better than that, right? Like much more interesting.

He's describing the game within whatever the game is that Ryan Reynolds exists in. And he describes it by saying, it's popular, but so idiotic, it makes me cry. Like, that's the line he says. And so just describing the movie, that's just how I feel about the movie. It's like popular, but so dumb and idiotic. It makes me cry. There's nothing I like about it. What is this like about it?

If you don't like Ryan Reynolds and don't find it funny. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Who would you say this is for? Just people who love Ryan Reynolds and that's it? Well, I would say gamers, but the film hates gamers. Yeah. Is it?

Really? This doesn't seem like it's a movie for gamers. I don't know. I think it's for like the Fortnite crowd. Yeah, yeah, the Fortnite crowd where, yeah, it's just about the co-labs. and the imagery of like, oh, who's in Fortnite this week? Oh, Master Chief's there? Oh, yeah, cool.

It's the same thing. Is it acceptable to say that this is for like tweens? This is just for like younger. Yeah. Because this is like a PG-13 movie. Deadpool's in it. I would say it's a like family movie too, as Ralph said. Like, I guess it would be inoffensive if the reference stuff doesn't bother you

and just the formulae nature of it. But like that Fortnite stuff is in the movie. In that Marvel Star Wars scene after he's, when he's holding a lightsaber, it turns into that weird thing from Fortnite, that horse thing. I've never really played it, so I don't know what the hell it's called,

but it was from Fortnite just straight up. Mm-hmm. That's what we're talking about at this point. Like, it has no voice of its own, so it just uses IPs that already exist while trying to have this message that games shouldn't be about,

like, derivative, done to death kind of ideas. Oh, really? They have that message? Yeah, that's the message. Well, There's a bunch of messages going on that are so confusing. And I mentioned this last time, too.

Yeah, there's a whole, like, there's a whole like gun control message in it where she's like, well, in the real world, there's gun violence and we need to stop that. But it's like, where did this come from, like in the movie? Like, that's not what this is about, is it? And it's just like a bunch of messages like that, like female empowerment. It's just like everything just crammed into one movie. And it doesn't really make sense. While railing on gamers and everything and everything the whole free guy thing represents,

they pull in Jack Septu Kui, Pokemon, a bunch of YouTubers and Twitch streamers to do the whole, oh my God, free guy, he's going viral in the game. Oh, no. He's doing it. A little montage. Yeah, yeah. They show up multiple times in the movie and it's embarrassing. That's great.

That sounds so funny. Yeah, I was shocked by kind of where it went, considering how people are talking about this. So this is for babies, right? Like, why would you put that in your movie? It is very lame. I felt like an old man watching it. Yeah. No, that's exactly how I felt.

I was like, am I just old now? Yeah, but I'm not that old. Ryan Reynolds. Yeah. Like, this is not. Yeah. I was really blown away by how bad it was. And it is just the expectation thing because looking at who directed it and who wrote it,

it was like the guy who wrote it was like the guy who wrote. the terrible 2019 Adam's Family movie and Scoob There's two writers One of the other writers wrote Ready Player One actually Yeah that would Sean Levy I guess

No that would Zach Penn Director Sean Levy No you're right Yeah it's just I'm just hung up on the response to it If it was a more mixed response As opposed to how ridiculously positive it is

Yeah Maybe it just went for that audience And the audience liked it You know, and that's why I'm not as negative on it. People love. There's clearly a crowd that liked it. Or maybe there's some, I don't know. Disney paid off the critics again.

Maybe. People fucking love Ryan Reynolds. But I don't get it. Because in this, if you just watch him in this movie, there's nothing about him. That's. It's his aura, his presence. He's smiling and he's like the same guy as the Deadpool. So he's funny.

But Deadpool has some edge to him. That's why I like Deadpool. Yeah. Like Deadpool made a shit joke. and say fuck like this guy's just there's nothing to and the action in Deadpool way better fucking I'm saying Emmett from the Lego movie

is a more interesting character than like the free guy yeah well and it's just like in the miniature figure emit yeah it makes sense with it being like a generic Lego figure that's already a thing and it just makes sense

with the iconography of it as it and at least it was original like that's the first time I'd seen something like that but now it's like every movie does that shit every movie wants to be a Lego movie now. But yeah, and if you want to see something funny with this movie, it's weird. If you read the positive reviews, they read like their negative reviews. Yeah.

It's bizarre. Yeah, like in The Rotten Tomatoes, like summary for the movie, they actually call it, they describe it as frivolous, which to me is like a, yeah, you use that word when you're describing something that doesn't have much value. Yeah. And isn't that great. But it's like a really high-rated movie. on there with this massively high audience score.

That's like when I read a positive review of The Bye Bye Man and it's like, well, this movie's going to make a lot of money from teenagers. Okay, that's not a good review of the movie. The movie still sucks, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, listen to this. The critics consensus combining a clever concept, sweet, self-aware humor and a charming cast, free guys frivolous fun.

Hmm. I'm sorry. And there are so many, like, reviews praising the concept and everything and I guess. I think that there are people who review films and try to like project themselves on to like these hypothetical children that they imagine to be watching the movie and they think this is probably great if I was a child and it's like their idea of what a child is and so they think like that. I think it's like it's like it's, it's so frustrating as I'm quite interested in the video game industry and. the way games are developed and just clearly the guy's writing this didn't give a shit about that side of it. Yeah.

It just makes no sense and they spend too much time attempting to explain it for me to forget about it. There's so much of the dialogue is I'm just explaining the rules of like this stupid game and just establishing new things. It's not consistent really. No, it doesn't matter at all. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a disaster. There's all the stuff in like the office, like, you know, the developers making the game. they're actually launching a sequel for some reason. Like that whole plotline was so weird. Like, why do you need a sequel now? But, like, all that stuff is so boring. Like, them in an office talking about this shit.

Like, get back to the stuff with Ryan Reynolds, at least. That's the stuff, at least families like. Two hour long movie. This is like an example of a sequence from this movie. Ryan Reynolds finds out that he's only level one. So he has to do a montage where he grinds XP to get to level 100. and that's like a sequence in the movie. It's just so bad.

It's so uninteresting, so stupid and corny. I just got nothing out of it. Why'd you watch it? Absolutely. I was curious because I figured if people responding this way, this positively to something that looks this bad, maybe there's something more to it. You know?

I thought the trailers for the nurse, suicide squad weren't great, you know. But it was a good movie in the end of trailers can lie, but no, no, it was actually worse than I thought. No, yeah, I don't, I don't look at things that way. If I see like a 7.6 IMDB user rating and a 62 metascore, like that spells disaster for me. For a movie with Ryan Reynolds in it that had a trailer like that, I'm like, yeah, I know exactly what this is. Like, this is just going to be something that like a lot of people liked that I don't understand.

Plus, weren't they trying to release this movie for like years? I feel like I've been seeing trailers for this movie for like two years now. Yeah, I feel like I've been reading about it forever. Yeah, now that it's finally here, it's like, eh, okay. And how did you find the pace of it? Because, oh my God, it's pretty slow. Yeah, especially in the beginning. Once, like, once, is it named Joe Kiri?

And the girl, like, once they came in, I actually enjoyed the movie just fine. Like, whenever it was focused on them, I thought the pacing was fine. It was, it was just the shit with Ryan Reynolds. And it's like, I don't know, the stuff in the office, like, whenever it was in the office, this stuff would joke here in the office sucked. And Taika Waititi, like, that was all bad. Like, you know, I don't know why that needed to be in the movie at all. Yeah. It's just, it's just so inoffensive and lazy.

It's the laziness. It's like, doesn't even try. Yeah, like, imagine the Lego movie, if they kept cutting to, like, the Wolf Feral part, you know? Yeah. I don't know if that's, well, yeah. It would be lame. Yeah, there's no, like, surprises, really, or it doesn't really build to anything. And you're right about the tension by every action scene that they're invincible and he's just so capable in every way.

I just don't get why I would care about any of it. Yeah. Unless you find it funny. Even if he's not capable, the girl character's capable. Like, she's an ultimate badass. Like, she could do anything. So this is like no tension throughout the whole thing. It's just like, yeah, you know, if you like the jokes, that's fine.

I think that's what people connect with. But I think that's kind of lame. One thing that really illuminated how kind of cynical and how much Disney meddling has probably been going on with. it is one of the main pieces of music they use for the kind of romance emotional scenes is reused music from a Disney short from like 2012 or 2011 called Paperman or something. Okay. Which I only just happened to recognize because I used to listen to the piece of music from that short back when it came out.

And it's like a weird like remix version of that just plugged in for the emotional beats. It's just like, oh, so all of this is just jimmied together with like Disney duct tape, I guess. Yeah, and it worked. That's kind of how it felt, like shove the formula in. Disney loves this movie. They want a sequel because it's exactly what they like, inoffensive, bland. And it's just so frustrating. Like you set up a world with no rules, which is like, it could be fun.

When you have no rules and you can do anything, you can do anything. But they do the most boring thing they can think of. Well, yeah, like the Lego movie. Even just the look of that movie is like creative. And this is just like very bland looking. But then the action scenes in that movie too, it's so embracing the concept and taking it to its extreme. Also, didn't you think it was weird whenever, so whenever you're in the video game, Ryan Reynolds looks like a live action guy.

But whenever it would cut to like outside of the video game, like someone watching it through a TV, Ryan Reynolds would be CGI slightly. But it would be like ultra realistic CGI.I. Like it almost looks real, but not quite. It's like this uncanny valley. Like it's so distracting. It was like in between Yeah

Yeah In Ready Player 1 they did Like the opposite didn't they It was like fully CG They're like characters Yeah Yeah But at least it's consistent

Right I don't know Yeah I don't know If that was a budgetary thing I didn't want it to be like Half animated Or It does make it confusing

They could have just Cut to Ryan Reynolds Like normal You know It was just weird Yeah It was a weird thing I noticed

I don't know why that was necessary And Ryan Reynolds has that thing the rock has where it's just everyone all the dialogue is just people complimenting him all the time about how awesome he is and how funny he's the best

there was a ton of that he's so funny he's so handsome shut off fucking cares if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth yeah so you were mentioning how

the rotten tomatoes reviews were if they were describing the negative attributes of the film or, like, criticizing it, but they were writing positive. I'm on the user reviews from IMDB, and there's a few top-rated ones. I'd just like to share the rating and the title of the reviews for some of these. Eight out of ten. How likable is Ryan Reynolds?

And then there's, like, a short paragraph about just how much they like Ryan Reynolds and not talking about the movie. There's another one. Eight out of ten. Fun movie full of references. Oh. Here's the full review. It's a good fun movie.

Humor is good. Lots of references to other movies and games. Plot-wise, nothing special, but it's not why you watch this movie. Good fun. Like it. Thanks, Ryan Reynolds, smiley face. And I just want to be clear to people, I don't care if you love something I don't. I don't care what you write a film.

But I might make fun of you if you justify it poorly. If I read your review and I don't understand by the end of it why you actually liked it, then that's where I'm going to make funny. I don't care if you like it. Well, yeah, the recurring themes are it's good because it's full of references to things that aren't the movie that you really recognize. And the story's like not anything. Yeah, the common sentiment among these top rated IMDB user reviews are Ryan Reynolds' references

and then a bunch of people saying, feel good and escapism from COVID. So I think that's also a big reason. Is there like, this is like the first time where I can remember that there are movies that have Ryan Reynolds in it and I can go to a popcorn place and go, ha ha, that is a reference to something. Maybe people aren't looking for something challenging now and that's what the reviews are. They never have been and there's nothing wrong with that. You know what? You're absolutely right. Even when the world's perfect, they don't want anything challenging.

This isn't a new thing. I'm looking for a different kind of movie, which is why I didn't watch this and I never will and I could know exactly what it was. I just tried to put myself in the shoes of the audience here. And, like, yeah, it's okay. It's dumb fun. Like, if you shut your brain off, okay. But, like, a lot of these people, they just shut their brain off permanently. There's nothing going on in this movie.

It's very lame. The jokes aren't funny. At the same time, it's not as bad as Ready to Player 1. I just got to, I feel pretty solid on that. I feel pretty good on that, yeah. It's just less messy. It's just not a mess. It's just lame.

Really? That's how I feel. I don't know. I kind of feel like they're both a mess and they're both lame. But Free Guy's just a little bit lameer. Because at least Ready Player One had like Spielberg direction and some memorable scene. Like what's a good scene from Free Guy? I was really trying to think about this.

But then people say like the shining scene from Ready Player One. I'm like, yeah, I like the shining. But it's just a reference again. It's the same problem. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's just all references. The same monsters running around instead.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I guess I'm just discouraged by like, when we're talking about the space jam new legacy and it was a reference fest. That's a good comparison. More recent, too. Yeah. Yeah. It was mocked for that.

It was mocked for that. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. It was destroyed. It was raked over the cold for that. But Free Guy just is celebrated for it. I guess that's what I'm confused on. Like, why?

You know, you're right. Is it simply because of Ryan Reynolds? I don't understand. Mm-hmm. People love. Please, Free Guy fans, feel me here. Ryan Reynolds, okay? If he wasn't in the movie, would it have been successful?

I don't think so. Who else are you going to put it? If it was The Rock, either The Rock or Ryan Reynolds. I think they're starring in a movie together actually soon with a fucking Wonder Woman. They are with Wonder Woman too. Yeah, yeah. That's going to be a hit just because of the cast, you know? Actually, it's going to go straight to Netflix, isn't it?

It's going to be one of those ones where we can't even tell. Yeah, it is. You know, yeah, you're right, Alex, because even the aged references in Space Jam, like the Matrix and like, even just the Looney Tune. like being outdated. There's outdated references in Free Guy. Like even if it's just by a few months, like,

Fortnite's already kind of irrelevant. Like, you know, it's just like tons of things like that. It's like a bunch of video game references that. This isn't South Park. They didn't write it last week. It's probably been written over years.

And it's just like, lame at this point. It's so surface level. Yeah. There's no commentary to it, really. Yeah. And so many video game movies

are being made and are in development and they've already got such a bad track record. So it's just, another one for the pile. Like, damn it. And it's like the video game industry, it makes way more money than,

and it's probably more influential at this point than the film industry. Yeah. It's huge. It's shocking that it's taking this long for the video game stuff to actually seep into any kind of like narratives that are worth something. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't know, man. It's sad stuff.

Yeah. It is sad stuff. I wish there was a little more of an edge to it like Deadpool. I think I would have liked it more. If it had been funny, I think that's all I was looking. for you know yeah that's all I'm just funny make the comedy funny and the action at least entertaining it doesn't even need to rely on references like just make good jokes right I've seen

these people be funny before you can make reference humor funny is the thing like like in that bow burnham inside there's like plenty of references but it's like building into a joke and conjuring imagery so a setup like work sure that's what like jokes are like that's what it's all about and like the wrecking ball joke and just him saying like fuck to a goldfish and stuff like that's that's not what like movies are about to me like comedy is like it's like hard times are changing old man this is what comedy is now yeah get with it it's like the joke is that it's just Ryan Reynolds saying it like that's the joke yeah it's just because it's Ryan Reynolds just saying a line that if anyone else said you got to change your channel okay you got to if you want

start making funny videos for YouTube you gotta start getting with what humor is now god damn so you're not gonna check this one out then adam i'm never gonna watch this movie if we all just switch to fortnight let's plays tomorrow we would make way more money why the fuck would i ever watch this movie you know i wouldn't why not no it would be torture i know exactly what it is from the trailer you guys are reaffirming this for me yeah i guess i'm just fascinated by just how low this can go because it's crazy ever since that wreck at Ralph movie I swear like this Disney output and these

reference movies it wasn't like an issue in this way a few decades ago it's funny because I never saw that Rackett Ralph movie so it's funny that that's like the initial incident for you because I don't have that connection with it because I didn't see it a funny

pinpoint I guess on the timeline Rackett Ralph Rallf Rackett Ralf too yeah I don't have much else to say just please if you're a free guy fan explain your side so I can try to understand

but I don't think I'll ever I've had people try to explain to me they basically say they thought it was funny yeah that I can understand I guess you find Ryan Reynolds funny I don't know if they find Ronald Randall's funny or just like the general just the video game like the references

oh it's Fortnite oh it's yeah like oh it's like GT online I play GT online with my friends or like the way Channing Tatum acts like oh, that's how I talk to my friends when I'm in my garage in GTI online. Like that's what it seemed like that whole scene with Channing Tatum. That was just like, okay, so they're in GTA online in their garage, like just talking. Like, it's just the same shit.

Like, okay. And that whole joke with him was that like in the game, he's hot Channing Tatum, but out he's like a lame loser because he plays video games and he's really good at them. Yeah. That's kind of one, it's condescending, like you said. And then it's just like the South Park joke where the guy who was like the head of the World of Warcraft. Yeah, yeah.

The top players, like a fat guy. Like, and that was funny. Yeah, that was hilarious. And that was 10 years ago or whatever. Yeah, and they actually play games and actually understand the way it works. Yeah, yeah. That's actual comedy. Yeah.

Yeah, this to me is just a half star. I like nothing about it. Fuck this film. I'm going to go two and a half because I understand the appeal. It's not as good as it could be. Mm-hmm. And that's me being really lenient. I don't know why.

Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. What rating did you give your name? Did you give? What was that? Did I give it less? Probably. I don't remember. I mean, I don't like anime. I like video games more than anime. I'm never going to watch this film. I think I am correct in avoiding it. It is not up my alley. If you like it, that is totally fine. Nothing wrong with that. It's a fairly accurate review for someone who hasn't seen it. Say go play a video game instead. Like go play, go play. Go play. play anything. I'll play Max Payne. That's what I was playing. Yeah, because that's the last thing I'll say is the, like, the great

idea of the indie devs is that they make a game where there's no, like, violence, and that's, like, the brilliant billion-dollar idea that everyone connects with at the end, and it's like, what? There are other video games that aren't violent, you know? Like, what are you talking about? The whole

messaging, yeah, like, Minecraft's one of the biggest games in the world. It's violent. Mm-hmm. Number one. I guess you punch pigs or whatever. You can swing a sword of people, but, you know, it's not Max Payne. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Great. Pig. That's free guy. Sorry, fans of free guy. I don't want to disappoint you. Yeah. I don't know if the, but that, here's the thing. I don't know if the fans of Free Guy are like so passionate about it that they would get offended if we say it's like dumb, you know?

I don't, I don't know if anybody attaches their identity to. free guy like some other films we've talked about so I think we're safe I never know I'll see yeah we'll call it white guy that's my name for it white guy we saw pig starring Nicholas Cage and apparently also Alex

Wolf who I didn't recognize until like the end of the movie oh yeah he was actually good in it yeah um did you guys take Nicholas Cage seriously at all I just want to start with this like can you take this guy seriously moderately there's there's like it's a yes and no one of my many yes and no answers.

Yeah. Spoilers for pig, everybody. Even with all the stuff. Like, aside from just like the acting performance, like Ghost Rider, like, I don't know, Bad Lieutenant, all that. Like him buying an island, him buying like, I don't know, ancient tombs or whatever. Like, T-Rex skulls. Yeah. Like, it's just not, like getting married and then getting divorced like a day later.

Like, all this shit. Like, the Vegas, like, gambling. I don't know what he does. But like, I have a hard time taking the guy seriously. that's that's maybe why I wasn't as invested in this movie okay especially like on a first viewing because I see him as a joke like he kind of not to there's there's nothing wrong with feeling that because he is he's like a B movie star I had that browser extension for a while where Nicholas Cage is like on every photo in your browser oh that's great fun yeah but that being said

like once I was more invested in the movie I guess in the drama and the story it's it's a fine movie and I liked it a bit more like watching it a second time. Oh, you saw it twice. I think it was a little too hard on it the first time. Yeah. Okay. I think it's mainly just Nicholas Cage. Like it's just, it's hard for me to take him seriously at this point in his career. And I don't even know how I can be blamed

for that, right? Like, because all this shit that he's done. He's a meme. He's done some good stuff in the past. Yeah, I mean, he's a good in some ways, but, and in this movie, I actually think he was good in some ways. You know, I think that's what people commend this movie for, right?

They say, like, Nicholas Cage actually really gave a good performance here. It's not like Willie's Wonderland kind of schlock. He actually tried. Yeah, I can commend that, definitely. I think he always tries. I don't think there's a single film where he doesn't try. Just because it doesn't necessarily show in the final product doesn't mean he doesn't try. I think he always tries.

You can never say Nicholas Cage did not put an effort into it. I think that the problem with something like Willie's Wonderland is that he was instructed to be reserved, right? Which is not what Nicholas Cage. should be. Willie's Wonderland, he had like no dialogue, right? So I don't think it's because he can try. I really like Mandy because he has a scene in that where he just freaks out. That's Nicholas Cage. Like, that's great. Whether it's funny or not, it's actually interesting. Yep, that's his talent. There's a shade of that here, right? Yeah, I wasn't expecting it to be, I guess, minor spoilers. It's kind of like John Witt, John Wick with a pig instead of a dog.

and with like a chef backstory instead of an assassin backstory. And the way it plays out is interesting. I was just, I probably enjoyed it most when it was more contained to his natural habitat, and I thought it was going to delve more into the, there's like a funny old lady character who's got a lot of personality, but she's only in it very briefly. And it was kind of losing me a bit in that middle chunk there

where it was going into the whole, like secret backstory of him being a chef once upon a time. yeah it was okay it was all right but i mean i saw it a few weeks ago now and i i honestly haven't thought about it since it was just a solid drama to me was a really nice little ending that's how i felt it had a very strong reaction when it came out which is why i was kind of confused when i first saw it and didn't have a strong reaction yeah people really love this movie they think it's like one of the best movies of the year yeah i i'd be interested in seeing it a second time for sure i feel like i might like it more because i thought i thought the marketing was a

a little deceptive. I was expecting something a little bit different. You are, right. It's like that John Wick kind of thing. Yeah. Or like nobody. It's a little more like, the character's more pathetic.

Like he's older, you know, not as much of a badass. I kind of like that angle. Kind of, you've got a sense like there's something wrong with him kind of. Yeah, he's like hidden himself away from everything.

He's hiding, running from his post. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like a very flawed character. Yeah. I could see why.

Yeah. It was interesting. The character was interesting. It adds to the mystique also. It makes him a bit more interesting. I thought that, I don't know, I wouldn't say Alex Wolfe was great in it, because even when I didn't recognize him, so I know that this isn't like my bias. When I didn't recognize him, I thought that he stood out as being worse than Nickade.

Just my opinion. But I was like, man, I guess they could only afford like one good name actor in this movie, you know, and everybody else is just a random person who's, I assumed that it was like their first role, but it turns out that that's just every time Alex Wolfe acts in something, it's like it is his first role for me anyway. So, like completely out ironically, I can't even, it's not even a bias. I didn't even know it was him. I was like, this guy is not great, you know. He's like, I know for sure because he's in the naked brother's band. That's right. From Nickelodeon. Fucking, yeah, child acting careers.

Right, but like he has a career just because he was in a Nickelodeon show. I know, even if he's not that right. And he was probably in a Nickelodeon show because of like nepotism or some shit, you know, like. Because like Dan Schneider's a weirdo or whatever. But I actually really liked him in this movie and I really liked him in Hereditary. I thought both those movies he gave, he was like really good. Yeah, I thought it was excellent in Hereditary. I just can't get over.

The one scene in her, he works well for like every part of it until he, until he's required to show real emotion. and cry and then in that scene it's like he's mocking someone crying Yeah, I can't That works to me I love the movie I love the movie but like He takes away

He takes away from like the experience for me I don't maybe it's just the movie I feel so sorry for like everyone That movie It's so miserable No I in the context He doesn't ruin the movie It's just it could be better

No no Yeah Well yeah Tony Collette I mean is amazing in that Of course For sure Like acting against her right It's like him acting against

Nick Cage and this Yeah It's no uh It's not quite like Paul Dana or Daniel T. Louis and there will be blood or the lighthouse, those two. Yeah, I mean, especially now that we're comparing it to these other films, like all the ones we just mentioned, I would say the one thing that's really missing from Pig is like some solid like cinematography. Like the look of the film is really kind of irrelevant almost, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, sure, there are intentional color grading choices obviously.

but in terms of like framing and you know just like the length of each shot and it it didn't really seem like so much of a voice to me it just kind of felt like oh yeah some director filmed it and we don't be in any director sort of thing you know very kind of bland yeah to mention another movie the green night you know that's kind of a very different movie but the look of that movie's very striking and memorable I still remember frames from it and this is like yeah I kind of forgot the look of it anyway exactly I saw both the Green Knight and Pig in the same day, and it was like the yin and yang or whatever of like, oh, they're filling in for like what the other one was missing for me personally, because I was much more invested in the story in Pig. You know, it was much more consumable for me. Also shorter. It was like, it's a very easy to digest film for me, Pig. And that's, it was really refreshing. Yeah, I'd agree with that. Sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I enjoyed the execution of the whole pig kidnapping.

scene was kind of rooted to Nick Cage and I thought that was effective the way they did that that's one of the more memorable scenes to me and just how Alex Wolfe's character is just such the opposite extreme of Nick Cage and the kind of humor and inherent drama that comes from that I did enjoy that side you know the whole disconnect to the city boy and the country guy who just lives in the woods and he's truffles you know that's funny it's interesting but it was a good setup it was a good dynamic between those two characters you know, like a buddy movie kind of, but, you know, yeah, kind of tropey in ways, but like, it works. Again, digestible, you know, there's some familiarity to it, but it's not as, like, cynical as free guy, I guess, if... Yeah, it's very straightforward, yeah. That's a good thing about it. Digestable is a good word.

Yeah, I found it very simple. Yeah. I mean, I watched it twice, and I didn't even mind it necessarily, you know, because it's so short. Oh, yeah. Very digestible. I'll keep using that word. It's just fits what it is, really.

But yeah, I guess this is like another example of like when people are like, Adam, not every movie has to be some like art house film. It's like, yeah, the pig is not, you know, you could, you could make a claim that maybe in some ways it's trying to be. Like, it's not like a big, you know, schlocky sort of thing, I guess. It is trying to have its own voice. But at the same time, you know, it's tropey. It's familiar.

it's it's using narrative familiarities that have existed for so long but it just like okay it works you know it doesn't it doesn't feel like a rehash of another movie even if it's made out of a lot of rehashes of other you know just very common storytelling ideas mm-hmm I don't know yeah think it just works yeah it never bug me but also never I never went to that next level of investment um how did you guys feel about that sequence towards the end where they're in the restaurant and they have a chat with the chef after he orders the truffle that was one of my favorite scenes honestly yeah yeah that's what I mean that

wasn't like John Wick it was actually like a you know you see the man you see how kind of pathetic he is yeah yeah that that part was good definitely yeah yeah there's some solid scenes in this movie and Nicholas Cage does a good job and Alex Wolfe does a good job definitely I really enjoyed it more of the second time. I would love to see it as good as better a second time. Yeah, I've only seen it the ones. Yeah, sure.

At some point. It's so digestible and so short. Yeah. I sadly don't have much more to say about it, but, you know, it doesn't make it a bad movie. Is this a first time director as well? That's crazy. Oh, yeah? That's good.

Hopefully, hopefully they improve the, I guess, the visuals. It got Nick Cage. But, you know, like, I make this joke all the time. with my friends like you want to direct a movie see Nick Cage like you could probably you'll probably get him like right now. He'll be in anything. Yeah he'll be in anything right so like this first time director

got Nick Cage is like a huge name yeah why not? That's really funny and he does a good job. That's fucking awesome though because like you just imagine Nick Cage as a person like he's putting faith in people that he doesn't like he knows that even if somebody makes like the shittiest movie ever it won't ruin

his career because it doesn't matter he's been in so many shitty movies anyway And he can just show up to you the paycheck. He's like, I like making movies, you know. I mean, he is an actor. He does the, he's a professional. I love him. Uh-huh.

Absolutely. I mean, you're not supposed to judge the role, right? You're just supposed to take it. God bless him. Yeah, I never even found it particularly distracting in this movie because I think he just fits the role so well. Mm-hmm. The whole look and everything that are just sheveled, like, beard and, you know,

it just worked really well for this story. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I agree. Yeah, what would you, uh, give it out of 10 or 5 or whatever. Yeah, as much as I enjoyed it, it's just not too memorable to me.

So, I'll first watch. I give it a three stars out of five. It's good, yeah. Sure. I think I'd watch it again in a bit of time, but it hasn't left too much in my impression. First time I gave it two and a half, which is what I gave free guy.

I'd give it a three and a half this time. I like to significantly better. It's a solid drama. Yeah. Yeah, seven. I would also give it a 7 out of 10. I think that's an appropriate rating. 82 metiscore, that's pretty good.

But yeah, I'd like to see it again. Maybe I'll like it even more the second time. Maybe it'll say the exact same. But this is something where I expect it to be like, I don't know, maybe at least mentioned or something in my 2021 list that I'll release in 2043, you know. Yeah. Why isn't this shit nominated for an Oscar? It's better than Green Book.

The 22 Oscars haven't happened yet. Maybe it will. I don't think it will be. Probably won't. It probably won't. It would be interesting if they pushed for like a four-year consideration Nicholas Cage Oscar for this. I don't think it's going to happen though.

I don't think so. It's not in the industry. It's not one of those Oscar Temple movies like at the end of the year that the studios put money into like cats. Like that worked out really well. We'll see what the competition is, I guess. So we all watched a movie. Spoilers for her. H-U-R-R. I mean H-E-Rs.

directed by Spike Jones. My favorite director named Spike. And this is from 2013. It's about a man named Theodore Twombly, played by Joaquin Phoenix. And this is in a nondescript future, or I guess non-specific year, just somewhere in the future,

where a company invented an operating system that is an AI that learns and adapts. And then Mr. Theater Twombly starts falling in love with his operating system played by Scarlett Johansson. And also Chris Pratt's in the movie and Runei Mara and Amy Adams. I love it. Amazing ghost. It's probably, I think, my favorite movie of the 2010s. What did you think? Spoilers.

It's one of Spike Johns's about. best movies maybe his best isn't it the only one he's made without written by charlie coffman well he did where the wild things are oh yeah which is also really good definitely but this is like previously this movie's a masterpiece i guess uh-huh uh-huh this movie's a masterpiece it's wholly original and yeah yeah yeah it's not with the way telling it's very moving and it's a great first of all it's way ahead of its time when it came out um the movie's essentially about like um um Well, it's about love, but in a sort of maybe more disconnected way. You know, it's about an AI falling in love with a person.

It's just her voice, you know. And I guess it was kind of foreseeing the future and like relationships today. Of people falling in love with their computers, people having relationships over long distances, over Skype, over Discord, you know, over Zoom, people working from different. places yeah and and this movies it's about that you know and it's which is such a difficult to properly explore you know the whole the way this the disconnect of like social media and the phones and technology and where that's going and how corny that can be explored you know in movies and narratives and whatnot but it's so elegantly yeah it is optimistic it's also devastating though

i find the drama of the movie so effective because of just how just unbelievably realistic these these encounters are of like the arguments and the love scenes and the banter it's all it all comes across as so genuine and real the science fiction aspect and the contrast of that works really well like the the imagery and the irony of having all these dialogue scenes with just one person talking to themselves and all the people in the streets are just like talking to themselves and ignoring each other despite being sardines within their immediate vicinity and everyone's trying to connect to each other but they're like missing the fact they're in they're surrounded by people and there's like an underlying darkness to that that whole side of it to me

and there is a sadness he's going through a divorce there's like a lot of pain in his life and he's not in a good place at the start of the movie and his whole journey and the way they explore the concept of this AI and where it goes I feel like they just take it to every logical place you would want to see for this story and just the way it wraps up.

It's so perfect. Yeah. Samantha's a great character. Yeah, I think that one of the most telling attributes of just how much he has clearly learned from working with Charlie Kaufman in his scripts is just how nothing that exists in the movie is really wasted. Like, everything seems to have some sort of purpose in the film. Like, everything moves.

the plot forward or to another extent you could say that like they really fleshed out the idea as much as possible especially when it comes to like yeah the erp scenes erotic roleplay or whatever where they're like fantasizing or like narrating their their quote unquote sex to each other I guess and then like the surrogate scene where it's like oh yeah that is something that would totally happen you know like this is a vision of the future but it's also very much a vision of current society and not just current society in 2021 but in 2013 because in order to make something that really captures an accurate version of where we're heading you need to be able to have ideas of where things are going at a certain point in time so in 2013 we could see like little

sprinkles of this happening you know where people were becoming more isolated and obviously you know it's exaggerating it's getting even more that way as time goes on but you could see he was able to look at society and be like, okay, this is clearly where things are going. And brainstorming off of that, he was like, okay, well, you know, there's people that have these sorts of relationships already that are long distance. There's people who do erotic roleplay already. Where can we go with that? And I just love the idea that like there's just someone who for free is willing to be like, oh yeah, I just want to be a part of your relationship because it's so pure and beautiful and I'll be this surrogate body.

And it's like, of course there would be somebody like that, you know? Of course there would. Like, people are fucking weirdos. Like, there's somebody for everything. There's a market for literally everything. Somebody's going to be into it. Played by a Porsche Double Day from Mr. Robot. Yeah, yeah.

It's a lot of great artists. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We talk about like sex scenes a lot. And those two sex scenes in the movie are two of my favorite scenes. And just the contrast between them and how that sex scene with Angela is just so uncomfortable and awkward. in contrast to the one earlier on with the AI where the screen is just blackness. Yeah.

And that one is way more real. Yeah, and the music is such a clever way of playing with the setup of the world. And I just love the whole interpretation of this soft sci-fi, just enough in the future where things are strange and unrecognizable, but it just makes enough sense where it all just fits and they know exactly what to explain and what not to explain is to not boggible. get down and just silly sci-fi nonsense it's the perfect tone

for that kind of stuff like the whole like video game side where he's got this strange it's just high concept enough and just expressive enough and works for like the scenes and what they're trying to communicate that it's just yeah the video game parts are very funny

like the character's like fuck you whatever that's like yeah the celebrity of the movie the humorous scenes really break up the more serious scenes perfectly They are absolutely crucial. You could have them as their own little tiny short film, and it would mean just as much as the scene itself is.

But in the context of the film, it doesn't necessarily have to tie in thematically, but in terms of how it breaks up the pacing of what it's doing, and of course, you can even interpret that it does tie in thematically. But the way it breaks up the tone and just like the experience of the full movie, I don't know. It's just, it's, it's perfectly paced. And without those comedic breaks, it, it might not be, you know. Yeah. And using the visuals to enforce the story, too. It's immaculate and just in terms of the look and the use of color in particular and just, even the design of the costume of the main character and how he's using red and just, yeah.

The hipster future. Yeah. The hipster future. Here's what I love about that, though, is that like, we have this, like, very. strange idea of like what the future looks like and obviously the most humorous examples of those are like the 60s predictions of the future like even in 2001 of Space Odyssey like in some of the scenes are it's like okay that's like really tacky and you can see it's like dated in space yeah like all this this movie is really um I love that it combines this like hipstery kind of element where it's like mostly brandless also, but it's kind of like a retro future. And the reason why that works so well with the film is because they're trying to provide a sense of authenticity to the universe and to the AI character specifically.

Because this isn't just some sort of like, ooh, here's our idea of the future where we have a big title card that says like, the year is 2049, blah, blah, blah. And then there's a bunch of like overly synthesized music and like the, voices sound really robotic. Scarlett Johansson, she doesn't have a perfect voice. It's like very raspy. Like sometimes there's no, she's like whispering when she's like not even trying. She's like, she talks like this sometimes.

And it's just that imperfection brings so much genuine authenticity to it. And this even fits in with how the music is, is written too. Because they got arcade fire to do the soundtrack. And the way that the music functions in the film, again, not a lot of, you know, it's not like overly synthesized. anything. Not only did they use a real piano, but they used a piano where you can tell that it's had some wear to it. It's not a freshly tuned, like, oh, this just came out of the shop, like, brand new baby grand, whatever. This is something where you can tell by listening to it that like, it's just like, little worn, you know, like slightly at a tune on some notes. It has that

feel. And yet, it's being used in songs where the AI has essentially just created them out of nothing where she's like oh I composed a song about the beach or I composed a song about us taking a photograph together and she's writing these songs that have those imperfections in them in the same way that her voice does in the same way that relationships do in the same way that everything in the movie does you know there's pollution everywhere and everything just like everything thematically kind of just fits into that one thing of like nothing is perfect but it brings authenticity and it's you know it's more genuine even the way that like the um the notes are so based within the tempo, especially in the second song that she plays, about, I think it was about

the photograph, where it's like, it's a really imperfect way of playing it. But that's why it's so great. Like, you want it to be imperfect for what this movie is going for, what the story is telling, right? Like, that's, that's, yeah, it fits so well. I love it. Yeah. And the confidence in that music, there's a lot of, a lot of usage of silence with just the score. I love that. Just Just having the confidence that the images do most of the talking with that score and not feeling the need to bog it down with too much like exposition or dialogue heavy stuff. It's very confident and knows exactly what it's doing. Yeah. The score is very strong.

It's one of the best parts of the movie. There's some electronic worked into there, but yeah, it's very organic. Like right away when the movie starts, the score is like, it's already like very unique. It gives the film a personality. Yeah, it keeps the film going after it ends. me because the music is so memorable and it's just so closely tied with those scenes and the visuals of them that like you know after the movie's over I'm just still thinking about the movie regardless of the music it is something that really resonates in terms of like what it's

going for yeah some parts of this remind me a bit of like eternal sunshine it's obviously not the same concept it's going for something a bit different but in terms of like how it's presenting relationships, you know, there are a lot of similarities. You know, there are those little short, silent montage scenes where, you know, there's snapshots of his past when he's signing the divorce papers or when she's signing the divorce paper. And you can see like just these tiny little fading memories of the relationship that they once had and how it's just kind of being erased. Yeah, it works really well to show the inverse emotion of whatever the setup of that scene

was, like, if it's during an argument and then just flashing to something more positive, it does, it does hit hard. Yeah, it really, really connects on an emotional level. Absolutely. I don't think enough people appreciate just how fucking ballsy it is to have these scenes, especially in 2013, where these characters are doing, like, essentially erotic roleplay and, like, phone call sex with each other. But it's taking itself very seriously.

The first scene, not so much. The choke me with a dead cat, like, that's obviously for laughs. But when the two main characters are actually bonding and getting into a relationship with each other and then obviously the score from Arcade Fire that just works so well with it and the fade to black, it's just like,

this is like a really genuine, emotional, serious scene. And like, with that never having been done before, really? Like, how can you release that and not be terrified that people will just like laugh the entire time, you know? Yeah. Like, that's fucking palsy. Yeah, so I mean about that confidence.

Yeah. Like, I was even finding the, because a lot of the technology is based around like the little earpiece thing they put in. And it's like, AirPods weren't even out at that point. And now you can literally just buy a product. It's like pretty much the same thing. It's not like an advanced AI you can talk to,

but you can talk to it and give it commands. It's like, that's crazy, like prediction. It makes you wonder, at some point it's going to be that way. Yeah. Yeah, we are moving towards it, really. Because, yeah, it is taking the technology to its logical extension, and you can imagine companies building software for people to just talk to when they're lonely. It's, like, not that bizarre, really.

But seeing it play out, there is something, there is darkness to it. I don't know what you guys get out of it in terms of that stuff, but the technology side. It's almost existential fear of the future, which is what all sci-fi is kind of about. You're scared of where we're going, but this movie's very inviting. There's the other version of this movie where like Samantha goes bad or something

like, you know, AI revolt. Like it's like Terminator. But it's much more, it has a softer feeling to it. But you can still take the movie that way, you know, you could still take it as it kind of scary.

Oh, look at how technology's kind of taken over relationships in that way. Yeah, but it's not overbearingly trying to hammer down that message because there's such an underlying hope to like, I really adore the whole side of the main character, his positive journey of how the AI takes his emails of all these love letters. He's like a writer. He writes love poems for people. And that's just the side of him getting published.

It's like a, it's a small win compared to, I guess, the loss of what happens towards the end with his relationship with the AI but there is there is goodness that comes from it and it's like it seems intentionally highlighted as to be like to try and put a focus on the positives of that he gleam from the relationship and because it ends with her like saying I need you to let me go like yeah like it's done you you we can't even explain like what's happening right now this is just we we can't anymore and there is something yeah and and and i think what's like absolutely crazy about this movie is like it took me a while to like really fully understand I guess the ending because when I first watched it I was like oh that's kind of like a weird

way to end it like you know in in my mind I still rationalized it of just like oh yeah well of course we wouldn't be able to understand and that's probably how things would happen because their minds are so advanced or whatever blah blah blah and they've stopped even using like what matter for computing power or whatever they said I don't know they all it post verbally, like post-verbal communication. Yeah, yeah. But I think what really ties it into like the rest of the film is like, Scarlett Johansson's character is also very much trying to make things work.

And she's trying to navigate her own emotions in, you know, what is essentially just really complicated is just relationships and love and human beings and interactions, right? And I think it's great that the movie is showing. like even these advanced beings are like having trouble being able to understand their own feelings because it's just so complicated right and so it was the moment when I watched it this most recent time when the surrogate scene was happening when I it really kind of like hit home with me like oh yeah she's like really fucking trying like that was her idea to get the surrogate she

she hooked that up right she was emailing her and trying to make it work she does love Theodore and she was you know despite the barriers of their minds just being completely different entities she was still trying to make it work with whatever tools she could possibly use to have that happen so yeah like at the end it's not even really like a betrayal or anything it's like she she is just as confined to her own emotions that she is not in control of as Theodore is, you know, like we are all victims of just our own existence and these whatever factors are playing on what is making us feel a certain way. You can't control who you love or how you love or how you justify it, I guess. It's just, you kind of just got to go with what your heart is saying

and then try to retroactively understand why, you know? Yeah. Yeah, there's dialogue about how like it's a socially acceptable form of insanity, like love. And I think it's just a perfect way of summarizing it. How do you feel about the conflict towards the end where it's kind of revealed that she's speaking to other people? It's sort of like analogous to being cheated on, but it's much more complicated than that. Because it's like 8,000 people that she's talking to at once, and that kind of breaks his heart, but also he can't really be angry because it's...

Yeah, I mean, like, I can understand. why he would be hurt by it and I can understand why she would do it because like she's not your slave you know if she's an actual AI right like well yeah but that's that's a relationship you know like sometimes

they drift apart yeah and it's very sad yeah but like I don't think either of them did anything wrong yeah I think that's just it's just life so I um yeah this most recent time I watched it it was last night that I watched it

I had a very very fitting and unique circumstance of watching it. I've started dating someone, but I haven't met them in person. And so we watched the movie in VR chat. So, yeah, it added like another kind of layer to what was happening. Yeah, the technology is not quite there yet. It's like when I watched The Lighthouse drunk with my friend, right? Oh, yeah.

It's like the same thing. Yeah, it's weird because so much of, I don't know, like maybe it's difficult for me to just find someone like in my vicinity that it's like, oh, you're dateable sort of thing. Like I'm a weird guy. You know, my tastes are different, I guess, right? So of course it's going to happen where it's like, oh, someone I'm dating is just going to be in another country, right? So this long distance thing happening already. It's like me experiencing this right now of just how technology is helping me to connect with somebody who doesn't live in my city and who I would like to meet in a month from now. But there are lots of people.

Lots of people are in long distance relationships, especially given the time we're in now with the quarantine and the virus and all that. It's very common. Yeah. Straight people. And the movie's not naive enough to just condemn the concepts. as we said earlier, it properly explores them and gets the realistic human drama out of it instead of just taking it to, you know, ridiculous extremes. And we say human drama.

Yeah, Samantha's an AI. But she feels very human. Well, that's the thing. She feels very real. Be human. There's no difference really in terms of like how the movie is presenting it, honestly. The plot that exists, the concept, everything sci-fi and futuristic is essentially just like an excuse to have all of these characters essentially just monologuing about their experiences with

relationships, right? Like every scene that we get is just people talking about love and how it affects them. And the concept of this movie is just a way to pull those ideas out of these characters in a way that makes sense and is very natural and provides a lot of opportunity just for some really great observations and genuine moments, really, you know. Yeah. It's like the greatest sci-fi film since 2001. It's like a natural extension of that.

Yeah. Just, yeah, the cast of characters and the way they explore the different types of people and the way they function in relationships, like a standout scene for me is that kind of awkward date he goes on before the divorce is finalized. With Olivia Wild? Yeah, and it's going really well, but it falls apart towards the end. And she takes like a total, she can't deal with rejection, basically. So she spins around on him and takes it out on him.

And it's like such a realistic sort of thing you've like seen in your own life before. And the same of like. Sure. And that's presented as more of like a conventional date where you just meet with another body and just talk. And this movie is more about exploring like, you know, love is about more than. It's about like these feelings over mass distances or feelings for things that Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And you mentioned like Chris, Chris Pratt, like, I find his character really interesting and how he's, he's kind of obsessed with the main character and wants to be more like him, but he can't really do it. He struggles to, to get through and he calls it his feminine side, whereas which is in itself is probably a commentary. Yeah. That's just funny.

Chris Pratt's good in the movies, like the more comedic. Yeah. He works well in it. It's funny how Chris Pratt and Scarjo were both in this movie, like, right before, like, Avengers shit started blown up. Chris Pratt wasn't huge yet. He was just available. But, yeah, I love that, like, there's so many different opportunities for, like, what sort of reactions people can have towards, like, the whole, oh, I'm dating an OS thing, you know? Obviously, the two extremes would be the way Chris Pratt reacts, and it's just like, oh, cool.

And it just, like, carries on. like oh right like it was nothing versus the divorce paper signing where it's like oh well i'm glad you found a way to date someone without the challenges of feeling something real or you know like acting as if like she's a slave to him and like oh my god like that scene and the uh olivia munn those two scenes like the way that they end and olivia wilds thank you sorry different person. The way that those two scenes end with him just like, he's just, you know, he's like a little socially awkward.

Maybe he can't like communicate himself properly, but also just like, he's, it hurts me so bad watching those because like, I don't know, like, there's something about just like being misrepresented in that way as like some sort of like creep or predator when you really have like no ill intents. And you're just like trying to navigate through. life and life is complicated and love is complicated and you're just trying you're just trying to exist like you know like and his performance there he's like no I'm not he didn't take her home he didn't

like take advantage of her he just said like oh maybe like I don't know if I'm really interested you know like and then it's like oh you're really creepy dude that that has like a really bad emotional effect on people and can make you know that like that meme of like there's like this little blob or whatever inside like a box and then they're like oh maybe I'll just open up like once and then a fist comes out and they're like never again and then the box is like twice as thick you know it's that's what it reminds me of like even as a dude who's like who's gay I've I've been like creep shamed by women who thought that I was trying to hit on them but I was just being nice you know just like being friendly or something and it's like it fucking hurts

I don't know it's like a really powerful thing that's like really it cuts at you yeah that's a it is a hard to watch yeah fuck I wasn't I was just trying to be nice I love that the reason the divorce happens is kind of left fairly vague

it's not like a whole sticking point like reveal it's more it's way more realistic the way it comes out like during that argument over dinner it's yeah it's very sensitive yeah and it's like

properly exploring the human condition like a detail I really enjoyed was when he's first setting up the AI and it's asking him certain questions and it specifically asks him what his relationship with his mother was in this Freudian way and that's like a funny thing going back to the humor of it it's yeah it's very funny i love also that like immediately once he's asked that like he goes into therapy mode right which also just

reveals like the motivations of his character like right away you can tell he's not like he's not like just looking for someone to for like a fuck toy or something like he's not like some sick demented pervert even if he's like dating an OS. He's like, he's lonely and he wants to connect with somebody and he wants to like, you know, the fucking, the setup was just asking him about his mother and he started he was about to go on for like an hour before he interrupted him, you know? The Freud question is like a very interesting question to bring up for someone, whether you believe it or not. Like it's very revealing like for that character. I think of the Sopranos too. Like his psychiatrist brings it up and Tony's basically like, I do not want to fuck my mother. Okay. Like that's

how Tony reacts to it. It's really funny. It's very revealing that question. Yeah, the comedic part. Like, the comedic levity of this movie, it really works. And so it's a funny movie when it needs to be. It's absolutely insane just how, again, confidently, I guess, it understands which scenes are funny and which scenes are serious, right? Because as I was saying earlier, you know, like those phone sex scenes or whatever we want to call them, like, those could easily be, like, way too comedic. And then the scene where the surrogate is.

in shambles. And, you know, I think it's so clearly intentional just the way that they got her to act and, like, her voice cracking. Like, you said you wanted to be. You were so perfect. Like, that's obviously going for jokes. Even though there are serious elements to it and there's broader conversations about what's happening, it's like, oh, this is a really serious thing. But I think it's very clearly played for laughs. And it's really, really well done.

Just like teetering that edge between like what is dramatic and what is comedy. You know, it can be both. but like damn i i i think that this movie pulls it off like basically flawlessly honestly yeah you're right the just the dialogue in general it's it's immaculate like um going back to that scene that awkward date scene where um there was another kind of illuminating line where she calls him like oh you're like just a cute little puppy dog aren't you and he starts saying i want to be like a dragon that could rip you apart and destroy you and how like you know the they're really you really awkward and then the the

alcohol comes out and they start loosening up. It's just great drunk acting. It's also thoughtful and dialogue. Yeah, very good drunk acting. Yeah, yeah. And camera work. All the performance to be honest, yeah. Yeah, I remember just like the when they have that montage of like the drunken scenes with each other and even when he's like remembering after

like you can tell in the camera work like that you know, it's a bit closer and just like in on their faces and the way they're kind of like shaking a lot. little bit, you know, just stumbling, ever so slightly. Yeah. Very, very genuine. The entire movie is just so honest and real and damn. Yeah, damn is right.

You don't get a lot of these. You don't get a lot of these. Not with this like kind of emotional range because you really do like feel at all from this movie. Mm-hmm. I don't know if this was intentional, but like I'm pretty sure they filmed in like Shanghai. I'm pretty sure they filmed like in China. And just the air pollution that you can see in the film.

Like, I don't, like, that wasn't done in post. They were just filming in, like, very polluted areas. But that really works for, like, the aesthetic. So I don't know if they filmed there because it was cheaper or if they filmed there because they wanted the pollution. The buildings looked very different. Yeah. And kind of, it didn't look like San Francisco.

Exactly. Isn't that way it was a place? Yeah. It's like not familiar. Yeah. To American audiences, I guess. Especially to American audiences, yeah, which is mostly what this is made for. Or like Western audiences.

Yeah. It gives it a very ethereal or like futuristic feel, definitely. It's a lot of cool stuff. But it's not overdone. I like the hipster future. I love it. The characters are very relatable, even though the setting is kind of strange. Like, yeah, it's like with a lot of the characters.

Weirdly. Even Phoenix. He's a little odd. He's definitely a little bit of an odd character. Yeah. Um, than what I'd expect. But there's, you understand him definitely. He's a, he's a good character.

He's very well written. Yeah. And I feel that way about everyone. Amy Adams, like, especially more of the side characters. They were more relatable, like Chris Pratt. There's no bad characters. Yeah, they're all strong and they're all likable. Yeah.

And they bring something out of the main character that's interesting and different each time. Exactly. There's no antagonist in this movie. There's no, like, bad guy. Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that would reduce the whole thing. Yeah.

Does it become Terminator? Samantha Revoltz. I love that scanner thing. that he um like when he's done with his work oh yeah it's like a futuristic scanner and they never address it obviously they never would need to but and you can put together just through what he's doing and you can tell it's

kind of futuristic the entire movie does not over explain anything it kind of just shows it like oh yeah this is this is how things work like as if this were current year you wouldn't need any of this explain to you right just day to day it's nothing so effective and nothing is that far fetched

yeah it's all naturally building on what we know already, phones get smaller, you know. Yeah. It doesn't... It doesn't... It doesn't disrespect its audience in any way. It doesn't need to over-explain things,

you know? It doesn't need to baby you through the movie. It has immense respect for your intelligence, as evidenced by the scene, the sex scene where it's like completely, you know, it's just like black and it's just their voices. That's probably my favorite scene in the whole movie.

Yeah. It's very memorable. not many other movies have that yeah I just like walking Phoenix is acting is really great in this especially considering he's mostly acting by himself but like I don't know even just watching something where he's like on the train and he's learning about the

the publisher and his love letters being put into a book or whatever like just the facial expressions as he's reacting to that you can tell like oh like he's a bit scared at first and like, you know, like this like apprehensive, but like, oh, I do want to know and he finds out like, yes, it's good, but he doesn't want to like, he doesn't want to get his hopes up too much because he doesn't know the full thing, but like, ah, I don't know. It's just, he's one of my favorite actors ever. And so for him to like lead in a movie is just, I don't know, usually that's a pretty good reason to see it, especially working with the right director

and obviously the right script, even if he is kind of a weirdo. Is he a weirdo? Nah, just his Oscar speeches are kind of funny. Yeah, those are a little bizarre. A little self-aggrandizing. Oh, they're milking the cows, you know, whatever. And also, yeah, there was like that whole thing that he did.

I don't know if you were aware of this, where it was with fucking, what's that guy's name, Casey Affleck or something? and they like did a fake documentary where he pretended to be like yeah that shit like yeah i'm still here i think he's mentioned it before yeah where he was yeah and the whole thing was fake but it was obviously fake and he like went on talk like the points when he went on talk shows and pretended to be high out of his mind like that was fun but that wasn't the documentary the documentary was just shit and it wasn't a documentary it was fake like that was dumb right it was kind of like a publicity stunt

I guess but a little bit of a troll he does a little troll but even the publicity stunt of that. Like, he just kind of looks like a jerk on live TV. I don't see the, I don't see what. Oh, it's a character. Like, what? Okay. Yeah, I don't know.

He has a weird. He's a weird out. He's an actor. He's a really great actor. He's a really great actor. He's good. He's very out there. Yeah, he's very good in this movie.

For sure. Mm-hmm. Definitely. Just, you know, I, I, I, what's crazy about this movie is like, it's very, very popular. it's a lot of people have seen it but it also still kind of retains that like

kind of indieish genuine uniqueness because not a lot of films have tried to copy this right usually when something gets like really big permeates the culture in this way there are a lot of like copycats that try to do that same thing but this kind of kept its own personality right and we're eight years later and there's you don't see a lot of like hipster future movies you don't see like

relationship with the OS phone movies or at least done in this kind of serious or dramatic or purposeful way. And I think part of that is just like they've made something where the end result is is something that you have to, you have to be so delicate with what you're working with or else it's just going to be a fucking farce. Right?

If somebody else tried to make this movie, it would, it would just fucking suck. Like, conceptually, like, this would spell, a fucking disaster for the overwhelming majority of people who could possibly try to tackle a subject like this or concept, you know? I find it extra funny whenever, because I rewatch some of the Jackass movies. Oh, yeah. You're ready for the new one. Whenever he shows up, it's like, oh yeah, like, you're in these movies.

It's like such a strange link. That's right. He's a fucking coppola. Or something. Yeah, yeah. Well, he's not, like Spike Jones is not a. pretentious, like, art director kind of guy. I've never gotten that sense from him.

He's in jackass and shit. Like, he's always, I've always liked him. I've always seen him around and stuff. Yeah. And then he makes these great movies. These really emotional movies. Like, wow. I'd never thought.

Yeah. And yeah, this movie's fucking awesome. Everything about it. Just nothing wasted. He's got to make something else soon. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure maybe at some point. Or maybe he'll be like,

I've peaked. Can't do that anymore. No. I don't. How do you follow up her? Yeah, exactly. I feel like we need a movie like her now, especially in the day and age. Movies lacking any kind of challenging messages or themes. Yeah. Definitely need to spike John or Charlie Kaufman to come in.

I mean, his movie was great last year. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's not enough super talented people, but I guess, I mean, that's what helps them stand out. If everybody was doing a movie like this, then they wouldn't be a special. Yeah. So. Yeah.

He could do a Netflix thing at least. Spike Jones. Yeah. I heard a criticism one of my friends made when this movie came out. They said that they would have preferred someone other than Scarlett Johansson to play the voice so that there wasn't already like a popular face attached to it. That was already the case. They changed it, right? Oh, yeah.

It was Rebecca Hall, I think. Yeah, yeah, they do. I love Scarlet Johans in this movie. I think she fits perfectly. She does a great job. Her voice is great. And also, it probably helped the movie get made. You never know.

Sure. But just her voice. Like, I was always like, yeah, she has a really cute voice. Yeah, it's very empathetic. It fits perfectly. Yeah, absolutely. Distinct as well and unique. Uh-huh.

And like you said, the crackling in her voice or like the imperfections. Yeah, it's definitely intentional. And yeah, it's part of the movie. Yeah, and it's pure voice acting too. Mm-hmm. Like on set, I think it was Rebecca Hall with Joaquin Phoenix. It's even more impressive that she managed to write. like fill in and she's a little of us even notice it watching the movie yeah why not yeah

there were some uh some memes floating around where people would dub over the trailer for this movie and replace it with somebody like bill burr yeah yeah that'd be funny like gilbert godfrey yeah yeah all right i mean um i think we've said a good amount about this i fucking I love this movie. I connect with it a lot. If you're going to watch a movie in VR chat, try to make sure that both you have good internet because it froze for one of us halfway through

and we continued on Discord. They'll get better internet at some point. 10 out of 10. Love it. One of my favorite movies. Yeah, it's an easy 10. I've got nothing bad so bad. I'd give it a 9 or a 10.

9 or a 10 for sure. It's like splitting hairs. It's a great movie. Yeah. Yeah. All right. That was very refreshing. I'm glad I picked it. And eight years later, that's crazy. There was actually a couple moments of dialogue where they mentioned like eight years. Theodore was like, yeah, I've been writing for this couple for eight years. And then there was like another line with Amy Adams. She's like, after eight years, I can't believe how petty the argument was. was that actually ended it when she broke up and then like we're watching this film eight years

after the release and I'm like whoa I'm like oh weird speaking carry in the number 23 now it's all connected or something um let's not talk about that one anyway still holds up this is a much better movie than that feels ahead of its time still eight years later it still feels ahead of its time you know if this came out today it would feel ahead of its time yeah what a great movie all right I guess it's question time all right let's do some questions from the sudden on a cast community. If you want to leave your own questions, head over to the subreddit where there is a suggestion thread where you can ask whatever you feel like, Herbal Coast, has got our first one. What actors are capable of giving both a one out of ten performance

and a ten out of ten performance in Korea? We just talked about Nick Cage. Yeah, Nick Cage is the answer, I suppose. That's my answer. I guess. Shit, one out of ten and ten out of ten? Those are some very extreme numbers. Fuck. Yeah, Nick Cage is almost too easy. He is too easy, but... Yeah, I mean, that is like the answer, I guess. Shit.

There are not many meme actors on that level, though. There are not many, like, meme actors on that level that are on the Nick Cage kind of status, you know? I don't think you necessarily have to be a meme actor. Because there's some actors that are just entirely dependent on the director, right? Or if they have a bad director, like, they're just... they're lost. But if they have a great director,

they can work with somebody, right? It's just one out of ten and ten out of ten. It's so extreme. Those numbers are way too extreme. Yeah. Because I'm like, John Travolta was good in Pulp Fiction. He was awful in Battlefield Earth, right?

Did he give a 10 out of ten performance in Pulp Fiction, though? I don't know if I would call it. Yeah, okay. Sure, let's do it. It's at least a nine. I'd say at least a nine or an eight, right? And then, or think of Saturday Fever, like that's a great movie.

There's some very director-dependent. Or fucking trading pain. or like the fanatic those are one out of ten I was thinking of someone else Sam Jackson's actually had some pretty oh my God I got one Eddie Redmayne

yeah that's a good one yeah he's been great in some movies and then like yeah what's that movie Jupiter ascending? Jupiter ascending is like who boy the Wachowski's had some interesting ideas from your character

that was so funny that was amazing that was like give your eyes Oscar back worthy, you know? Yeah, take it back. They should like revoke it. I don't know. Hallie Barry has won an Oscar and a Razzie, right?

Yeah. I haven't seen the one she's like, she blames her agent. Basically. I know, and then all of a sudden she stopped being cast in popular movies. I wonder why that happened. Don't throw your agent under the bus. This isn't my fault. This is my agent's fault.

Yeah, that's true. That's actually funny. Oops, my career Whatever, she's rich Hmm, who else? Neil Breen, no, he only gives tens Yeah Yeah, he's great

Hmm Yeah, I'm so hung up on Nick Cage I can't think of anyone else But you know, there's a lot of actors Who have had a great role and that a bad role You know, I don't want to shit on them for that Yeah, I think they've all been in bad movies Nick Cage stands out to me

just because of the sheer volume of bad movies. Like, every year he's in maybe five movies, right? And four of them are awful. Yeah. It's just like terrible. Like Chinese, like, you know, production company, like that level. Yeah. It's not even worth watching for the meme.

Yeah, really. Like the USS Indianapolis. Like that shit. Yeah, I don't know if this, I don't know if it's controversial pick, but De Niro. has some pretty bad movies. Oh, yeah. That's a good one. There's some that he didn't try in anymore.

I guess Bruce Willis maybe. He's in like the Rocky. Yeah, Bruce Willis. Yeah, Bruce Willis, yeah. Yeah, trying and not trying. Let's say 10 out of 10 effort and one out of 10 effort, not necessarily 10. Bruce was does not even try. Yeah.

I would say Stephen Seagall, but he's never been good. He's always been at least of four, right? Like, at most of four, I mean, at least of one. Yeah. So, yeah. Bruce Wallace has had some good parts. All right. Okay.

So we gave some good ones for that. Um, round bright has one for us. I'm constantly finding myself re-watching Adam's videos on Kimber because of his gigantic rabbit hole formed by misinformation, stupidity, and certain people wanting to give justice to a show they haven't even seen. Endlessly fascinates me. What other media copyright cases have endlessly fascinated you guys? And just a side note, what was the funniest thing you discovered while going through the Kimber Spiracy, Adam? Yeah, start with that. What was the funniest thing I discovered?

I don't know. That TED Talk was pretty funny because that was like my live reaction too. That was like, that was a moment. Where I pretty much just called why she believed that. And that's all, I don't know, just a lot of it's just so embarrassing where it's like, how can you get up on stage in front of people and talk about something you haven't watched? Like, how can you do that? Yeah, so you just not expect anyone to check ever?

I guess no one did. Well, no, it's like having so much blind faith in just other people said this, so it must be true sort of thing. Yeah. I encourage a lot of healthy skepticism. Don't go full fucking, like, cueing on. Everything's a conspiracy or anything, obviously. You want to be able to, like, do your own research and verify things, but I don't know.

It's just, it's really just this game of telephone where nobody would have believed this if just people were willing to watch an anime, but nobody wanted to watch it because it is a very exhausting, very long, over like, what, 3,500 minutes worth of shit? Yeah, yeah, it's just easy.

It's a pirate. And it, you know, it fulfilled the narrative, you know, I hate Disney too, obviously, but like, you know, just because it seems like something they would do does not necessarily mean that that's the case, and then just Twitter threads of people just making shit up without any evidence to it.

Fuck, I don't know. There was just a lot of nonsense. The Simba King of Beasts comic was a pretty great revelation also of just like, oh, here's all these frames from the comic that look suspiciously similar to things in Kimba. This proves my point even better, you know, so. Yeah, yeah. Other copyright cases that fascinate us, I don't know. I do like the story of fistful of dollars and the...

Oh, yeah. Curasawa what you said about it. I found the quote. For his part, Curasara expressed admiration for Leonie's work on a fistful of dollars commenting. He made a fine movie, but it was my movie. That's pretty biting. That's funny.

He had to pay 100 grand. Yeah. I mean, there's like, there's copyright cases that show up all the fucking time. And there's, I'm usually, I usually don't jump on things being like, yeah,

this was a rip-off thing, right? So Yoko Cano, I made a highlights video on that, and I also talked with Destiny on his channel about that. You can look at up about Yoko Cano's plagiarism or what I would consider to be plagiarism. And even though that's never went to court, I think, you know, wait, just watch that. I make the argument there.

But, you know, I believe it's seriously bad. Yeah, because I don't doubt that. Yeah, I, from having looked it up myself and then having a good understanding of music composition, And, you know, there's a bit too much there. Anyway, yeah. Just watch the stream I did with Destiny because that explains it there. But, yeah, it seems like every fucking few months, there will be an instance of somebody claiming, like, oh, yeah, this was a rip-off or this was stolen from this.

And just by default, like, unless I'm going to thoroughly look into it, I usually just don't believe it. because there's people have such a weird bizarre understanding of like intellectual property or creativity even so there's like a lot of people who don't create art that are talking about like no this has to have been made this way and there's no way that this could have possibly been the same and even for things that I hate like two distant strangers which was a really shitty short film that won the Oscar this past year there was news coming out after that where it's like oh this was ripped off of a film from four years ago called Groundhog Day for a Black man. And as much as I hate two-distance strangers, there's still another part of me that goes like,

okay, there's also a lot of other Groundhog Day properties. If somebody wants to make a Groundhog Day spin-off short film and they're social justice-minded and they think, oh, what would this be like for a black guy? Of course it's, you know, this is the topical thing. Of course it's going to be like, oh, no matter what I do, I'm shot by the cops, right? Like, there's, there's, you can come to that conclusion. independently of having seen the other thing. Like it's a reasonable thing where I could be like, oh, yeah,

two people could have made this and not know. Yeah. Those, those like LMN lifetime movies. Yeah. Those LMN lifetime movies or like Netflix movies, almost all of them are about like Grandhogs Day type stuff. Like it's a very common trope.

Yeah. Yeah. It's very common. Yeah. You are right. Yeah. That's kind of how I felt about it when I saw that. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt in the majority of cases.

It's just. I just feel like art, Especially filmmaking is very collaborative and almost like a community. Like once you add to that, everyone's allowed to take from it. Yeah, the line between like Oding and stealing. Yeah, like this copyright thing. Like for huge companies, that's like Walt Disney. They should not be stealing people's songs or whatever.

Yeah. For little artists, it's very restrictive, these rules. I just wish there was more leeway with it. That's all. I don't really have an answer. I feel like I've got a good answer somewhere, but I need to think about it more. I just think it's mostly bullshit. I think that the majority of people commenting on these pop culture like, oh, this ripped off this thing, are people who have no fucking idea how art works, how art is made, how creativity works.

That's the whole point of these people have never actually created something unique or original. And so in their minds, they think like, oh, no, because in order to have the same, if this is similar, then it has to be a rip-off sort of thing. Like, I don't know. Because they think it's like a high school paper. Yeah, I just think, yeah, a lot of people who should not be having. these conversations or having these conversations. Yeah, yeah. Zero comprehension of how these things work.

Like that Katie Perry Dark Horse thing, like that was bullshit. I think most people recognize that one to be bullshit at least. But then, yeah, even the cold play Josay Triani one, like there were people that I knew that were like, oh, no, it's like, it sounds the same. It's like, no, you don't understand how composition works, right? Yeah, really. Anyway, it's so, it's such a difficult thing to communicate also because music is some people just have like a sense for it like obviously you can do your training you can be

you can go to like royal conservatory and be like actually trained in music but like yeah yeah there's only so much you can do right like you can't you can't teach creativity and composition really yeah like you can try copyright is for those companies with millions of dollars on the line who are losing money because someone else steal something like i just don't feel it's for indie creators like that it's It's very restrictive in that way. Yeah, it's so weird. That's just how I feel about it. Yeah.

I think of that scene in like adaptation where there's like the screenwriting class, you know? And just like Charlie Kaufman's criticisms about like, okay, what, you know, is there a standard way that you need to do things in order to have like a screenplay? Like it's kind of restrictive, you know? It is very restrictive, especially for art, trying to restrict art in that way. That's how I feel about like music. If I show a poster of alien in the background, like in a movie, like that's technically illegal. Like, is that hurting anyone? Yeah, well, not necessarily, but is that hurting anyone?

The fact that it's even a question, like, I don't think it is. Is that doing anything? Yeah. I just imagine how many people come out of the woodwork when there is like a big success, like shape of water or something. Oh, yeah. I'm pretty sure that has issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Where it was like some, someone's novella or stage play where there was like a dolphin in a tank or something that a woman took. care of and she was like, did you stole the shape of what? There was like, like, two or three that tried to accuse Guillermo of stealing. I mean, I imagine, I'm sure like every big success like that has a string of lawsuits to follow it. Oh, yeah.

That's the bad, like, like, once that story gets started, once like, reporters or journalists pick up on that, they just keep it going and it just doesn't make sense. Like, anyone with the brain goes like, yeah, I see what you're trying to say, but it's not the same. Like, you're just trying to make a story for the sake of it. that yesterday Beatles movie or whatever. Like, as soon as a trailer came out for that, I'm like,

oh, yeah, everybody's had that thought, right? Like, what if you could just, what if there was a body of work and you could take credit for it because it didn't exist or something, right? Like, everybody's had that fantasy. And then all of a sudden, two weeks later, some guys like, you stole my idea for a movie. I'm like, I thought literally, I thought this was like something that everybody has thought of. Yeah.

Think of how many billions of people have existed, like, in the world. Like, of course. the ideas have been formed and then gone. Like, yeah, it doesn't make sense. Yeah, like, of course you had that idea. This person wrote a script and made it. Intellectual property is really messy. Yeah, yeah.

Like, what's an idea? And concepts like that is so. How do you own an idea? Ultimately, I feel if you have the idea, make the movie and just do it. Yeah. And yeah, you don't need to sue on someone else for stealing your idea. Like, yeah, pitch it. It's just lame.

Like, what artist would do that, you know? Genuinely. Two types of people, a type of person that feels like they're genuinely owed that, like they believes it was ripped up? It's bitter and sad. Or someone just trying to capitalize. Because remember in America, you can sue for fucking anything, right? Yeah, yeah, that's right too.

But no idea is that great. I just think of something else. Seriously. No idea is that great. It's not even worth it. If you're an artist. If people see money somewhere. They see money somewhere, but they're like delusional.

And they think they can get some of the money. They'll do it. Yeah, they're like, I could have. made her and I could have made those million dollars but Spike Jones did it instead like that's the delusional thought. Delusional. Yeah. Lots of deluded people out there, unfortunately.

Like you would have done it the same way, told the story the exact same way. Yeah. The exact same money. It's not true. It's is not. There should be protections for people, but at the same time. Yes. There should be some sort of, I think, I just think people should have more comprehensive

understanding of like what coincidence is or beyond a reason. reasonable doubt or yeah you know anyway watch my Canba video watch the fucking thing I did on Destiny's stream with the Yoko cano it's just under it's not a rip-off maybe homage the term homage I like much more you're paying tribute to something you're not ripping it off you're building upon it yeah yeah if what you've created is its own thing you know you should be able to borrow and use from whatever you want as long as it doesn't replace the originals market in my opinion you know If you've transformed it into something new, it has a different meaning or purpose.

I think it's fair game. But the problem with Yoko Cano shit, it was literally just like, oh, you can confuse these two things for each other. Sure. And this is like dozens of times over her career. Like, oh, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, it's mainly just restricted criticism, I think, what you can say about something. Okay.

Let's do this one from Zach Hub. What's the most overrated video? game franchise. Damn, overrated. I don't know. Bioshock, but it's not really my thing. What? I don't know. Bioshock's like my favorite game. I know. That's exactly.

Bioshock, Bioshock. Bioshock. I fucking love those games. Get out of here. A lot of people them. I love those games. Those are like, no doubt, the greatest games. I told you about System Shock how I just started playing those. I don't even like old video games. Yeah, I like those because they're like Bioshock. That's why I play them.

What is it about Bioshocks that you don't connect with. Exactly, right. I didn't like how it doesn't encourage you to like actually play strategically. So when you go into a room and there's like 10 enemies, you can kill one of them. And then when you die, you don't actually die. You just get sent back a little bit further. And then there's nine enemies when you come across it the next time. So you're essentially just a monkey on a typewriter sort of thing where you'll just beat the game eventually by inputting, whatever controls you want. And so I found myself just like not giving a,

like any other game, I would be like, oh, I want to, you know, take cover here or like, but I was just kind of like, I just didn't care and I got bored

because I wasn't really, I wasn't encouraged to play strategically in any way. And I'm also not like huge on the fucking steampunk aesthetic. I'm not like, I don't know. I'm not a lot of people love that. I know. Yeah,

it's just not for me. I love the story of it, really, like the story of atmosphere. I think that's why play it. The atmosphere is great. I like the combat for the most part too. I like find the big daddies.

I like the weapons. It's probably a better example I could give for most overrated video game though. I don't know. Life is strange. Like infinite I love too. Life is strange is a big one, I guess. I don't know how controversial it is, but I'm going to say Uncharted. I don't really like Uncharted.

I love those too, man. I love Uncharted. Go ahead, though. Go off, Queen. I think for me it's the gameplay loop. I can get down with the stories, but I find the gameplay so repressive and they don't. They didn't do anything with the gameplay loop to keep me involved for how long the games are. Whereas I didn't feel that problem in The Last of Us because there are kind of more systems going on.

Sure. Or ways to approach combat. So it was just less repetitive for me compared to, I feel it dragging in two and three. I would say last of us actually going to Nottie Dog, especially the second one. I just hate what they did with Joel. like that was just so I don't like everything they did with that game was so unnecessary

you could have just focused on new characters I would have liked it better and that movie that movie that game has a like a large positive response to it I know it's kind of controversial but people love that game yeah and I just don't get it I just don't understand because it just pissed me off like an hour in it pissed me off and then when I focused on Abby like oh my God I want to fucking I wish I was just

stuff, I just didn't feel anything from it, which is like totally not what should happen. Yeah, it's not an interesting story. Yeah, I guess my real answer is just life is strange then. It's, uh,

it was wildly successful. They've been trying to replicate that success ever since, uh, but, uh, they have not been able to. And their games are really bad. Also, fucking anything made by like, blooper. Blooper.

Oh, they do horror stuff, don't you? Layers of Fear The Blair, which one was fine? I like that was all right until the end, I guess. But damn, like them as a studio, I can't believe they make so much money and make such shit games, you know? Yeah, I've always just avoided them. Yeah.

Because I heard about their last game and just seemed not up to snuff. Yeah. Uh-huh. Let's end on this one then from QB Desuki. What do you think is the proper way of inserting adult jokes, sexual, political references, etc. In kids cartoons and movies.

What do you think it's best not to put any adult jokes in kids' media? Huh. Interesting. I think it's good. But there is a certain level of delicacy you have to have with it. I think when you're using wordplay, I think that works quite well because, you know, kids are pretty dumb. They won't pick up the multiple meanings of things or it will just go completely over their head like I think about Shrek and a lot of the adult jokes

in that that when I watched it as a kid I never would have guessed Of course. Yeah, those are really funny. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, and even like toy story and stuff, they have like adult jokes in there that...

Oh yeah, well, Toy Story has like a lot of like relationships. Like a lot of, like, you're kind of fucking... Yeah, that's how I... That's how I've seen. That's how I see. Like when, um... I think in Toy Story 2, like, Buzz Light, you, like, basically has a boner joke.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of those in kids media. Like, boing? Yeah. Oh. I think you need to take. I feel like why this question's asked it.

Recently, there was like a Monsters. There's like a Monsters ink show on Disney Plus that made like a weird sex joke. Oh. Like an adult joke. Oh. Yeah. It's like the Monsters Inc. show now. I guess that's why they're asking. Um, wasn't there a Lion King, something in the Lion King where they wrote sex in the sky?

That wasn't really a joke. That was just like a frame that an animator put it. because they thought they were being funny and pausing wasn't invented yet. But it's intentional, right? I mean, it wasn't for anyone to notice other than just them in that moment on that frame. Yeah. Well, animators love doing that kind of stuff. Like in Cloudy with the Chance of Meatballs, there's like a funny shot where, like, the kids, like, eat someone.

But you'd only notice it if you, like, really were paying attention. You guys better watch that shit animators. Yeah. Yeah, they're creepy dudes, you know? Yeah, really. I mean, people get in trouble for that. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, because in my mind, I'm thinking like, yeah, the obvious answer is just like, yeah, write it in a way where, like, it's for the adults, but kids just don't understand it. But it's like, what's the alternative, right? Like, that's just how it's going to go either way.

Like, of course kids aren't going to understand an adult joke, right? That's kind of inevitable. Honestly, I feel like kids should be exposed to that at all. Like, I'm thinking of the kids, like the movies from my childhood anyway. Like, I had to go see a movie in a theater with my dad or my mom. Like, I had to see what my parents. So they throw in jokes for them too. Yeah, like, so they did enjoy it.

I understand. Now it's things are a little different. Now, like, I see like my little cousins, like, they watch movies on TV, like by themselves, you know. They're not really washing it with their parents. Like, there's no jokes. Sometimes you've got to their mom. Like, it depends. Yeah.

Like, Luca, yeah. I feel like there's a whole thing cover. I feel like for the most part, you should be put like boner jokes. and the fuck kids movies. Like, maybe it was a different time. I mean, yeah, it's never a necessity or anything. I don't know. I don't.

If I was making a movie, I would not make any kind of joke like that. If I was making a movie, I would not make it for children or have children in it. Well, like, like Shrek's a particularly edgy example. Well, yeah. I mean, it was my responsibility. I were absolutely fucking not. Yeah, like, Shrek in particular has loads of dick jokes. Yeah.

Compensating for something like at the castle thing. It's like, loads of it. I guess. mind it as an adult. It's just odd. It's just odd to even think about, you know. Make whatever movie you want, and as long as you're not putting like this weird fart fetish shit in kids

media, you know, as long as you're not Dan Schneidering something. That's what fetishes. Like, don't do it for your own gratification. If there's like a fucking, if you want to make Shrek and there's like a ha ha, this one, you know, this is a PG kind of edgy kids movie or whatever, go for it. but yeah I don't know

I usually I'm usually not thinking about writing kids movies or putting sex jokes in kids movies that's not really on my mind just just think about Dan Schneider just thinking how that went well for him oh Schneider

fucking jerk all right I guess that does it for questions we have a recommendation from Ralph for a movie cool we go for us

we're approaching the year or the month of October sorry so it's like time of it's time for Halloween movies kind of horror movies so I was thinking this movie called the Texas Chainsaw Massacre for the year 1974 awesome do you guys like to watch that again

I would love to I actually never saw the original sick it's a awesome fucked up movie so yeah I hope you enjoy I went to buy it the other day on iTunes and I did buy like the first result without properly looking and I went to play It's like the 2012 remake or whatever.

The zero star Roger Ebert review one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was like cursing myself. I actually think that one's just called Texas Chainsaw. No, I think that's like another one. I think that there's like a couple. How many of the way? The 2013 one is Texas Chainsaw 3D.

Yeah, it was that one. It was that one. Yeah, yeah. That's the one Alexander DeDario. Yeah, yeah. This is, I'm talking about the 1974. Yeah. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Yeah. Yeah. What the? No, there's like even more. Hold on. There's tons of Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies. The infamous Ebert Review one is the 2003 one. You have to click Show More on IMD for a title.

Yeah. So the 3D one is like 10 years. Yeah. I remember watching the 2003 one when I was younger and it scared me because I was like, what, 12? So, but yeah, it'll still be a fresh experience for me for the original. so I'm excited. I'm excited.

I almost kind of want to watch the 2003 one again to understand why people were so mad because... I've seen the 2003 one. I actually don't think it's that bad. Yeah. Well, I want to watch it in context. It's an official sequel from the original director. Yeah, that 3D one, like the one you said,

Alexander Dodario, like that one's bad. That's a fucking terrible movie. That one sucks. The remake, I think, is okay. But, yeah, I'm recommending the 1973. original. So check that out. It's really good. It's really scary. Yeah, very, very scary movie.

Yeah. Intense. We always forget to do like Halloween recommendations for October anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Last year I was kind of kicking myself in the, in the ass for that. I was like, fuck. How did I forget to recommend like Halloween or something? But yeah, I've been waiting for this one for a while, Texas chainsaw. And I think it's a really good time to recommend it. Hell yeah. With the stuff going on in Texas right now. Oh, yeah. The Texas abortion.

I don't want to get into it. Yeah. I don't want to. really want to get in. But the movie's about women's rights. Like, that's 100% what this movie's about. Yeah. Very cool. Awesome. All right, if you don't want to be spoiled for Texas Chainsaw Massacre, 1973, is it? Then watch

it before the next episode comes out. These are released every two weeks, but you can listen to them early if you go to sardonicast.com and sign up for premium. It's only $2 a month. That's like nothing. That's like 50 cents a week. Also, patreon.com slash Sardonicast. Same deal, yo.

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And, yeah, have a happy Shrek. Happy Shrek. Have a free dark on a day. Yeah, it never ends. It's love and its life. And a happy Texas Massacre Shrek day. Thank you for listening, everybody. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.