Sardonicast - Sardonicast 99: Dune, Last Night in Soho, Godzilla (1954)

Episode Date: November 15, 2021

Support the Show for $2 a month and receive all future episodes early at https://sardonicast.com and https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast. Buy Sardonicast T-Shirts, and other merchandise at https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast. Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Merch: https://teespring.com/stores/sardonicast Website: https://sardonicast.com Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Sardonicast Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sardonicast Twitter: https://twitter.com/sardonicast Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sardonicast Ralph's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/ralphthemoviemaker Alex's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/IHEOfficial Adam's channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/YourMovieSucksDOTorg Alex's Twitter: https://twitter.com/IHE_OFFICIAL Ralph's Twitter: https://twitter.com/ralphsepe Adam's Twitter: https://twitter.com/2gay2lift Adam's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/YMS Ralph's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ralphthemoviemaker Intro music by: https://www.youtube.com/user/anUnkindnessvideo Fan art: https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/omq317/decided_to_make_this_fanart_for_the_podcast_since/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/q3j21o/halloween_is_coming/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Sardonicast/comments/pe5mxj/goodfellas_themed_sardonicast_fan_art_i_made/

Three, two, one. Pepsi spicy, like a hot lady. Pepsi spicy, like a triple Grand Duke. The people say me crazy because they don't even know me. I live in a little town near my house, a little restaurant. It's called Sukhnoodle. I usually go there by a Pepsi. I only drink a little bit Pepsi.

I can feel it. Plus, no matter where I go, I feel like the same. So I will sing it over, over, over again because Pepsi spicy like a hot lady. Pepsi spicy like a triple grand do do do do do do and there's more to the song but I'm gonna leave it there Nice that was from actually had an opening. Oh yeah look out it's got Giro okay Mine mine was spicy because there's spice in the film yeah we had too yeah that's good yeah I thought they were both good that was from a rapper Jeff Lou not to be confused with the Jeff Lou who directed Killer Bean okay so this is Sardonicast and my name's Adam from your movie sucks

Oh, I'm Ralph the Movie Maker for you to tap. I'm Ralph the Boobieke. I'm Alex Maichi, and I was hoping you were going to start with the kind of throat-talking voices from Dune, you know? Do you remember how the movie begins before? You do it. Oh, man. I can't do it. It's such a deep guttural, like, seeing it and IMAX at, like, Burst.

Is it, like, one of those, like, Mongolian throat singer thing? I don't remember. You know, and it's called the bass, and it's like, yeah. Yeah. We'll get into it. What'd you think of a Dooney movie? I had such an interesting time with it. I've seen it two and a half times now.

The first time, yeah, I saw it in IMAX, and I got to say at the end of it, I was a bit torn because at the time, there was no confirmation of a part two. So what we had was this kind of half a story in a vacuum with no promise that it's ever going to continue. and it does feel like a lot of buildup, it feels like half a book. So I was kind of like, okay, I'm down with this. I like what it's building to, but I feel inherently unsatisfied by just not knowing what's coming

or the fact that it might never come. Obviously, that's changed now. And seeing it again, I've got different thoughts. But I just found that a really weird first impression to a movie, because I can't think of another time where just half a book, has been adapted with plans this kind of vague. Yeah, it was a maybe. Or not in stone.

Yeah, like a maybe. We might make it on it. Yeah, if it's got, if it gets a good response, but it's like it, the film otherwise does not work.

Yeah. It needs the part two. If it makes money during COVID, you know. Yeah. So I found that frustrating, aside from the actual storytelling and just as a, just a confusing choice.

Um, an understandable one, I suppose, considering Blade Runner 24th. and not being the biggest financial success and just Dune's infamous history in cinema of being known as basically being unadaptable. Yeah. But especially upon, and actually on that first watch too, I was getting hung up on, because I'm not familiar with the Dune story. I haven't read the book yet.

I've picked up now because I'm quite into what it's building to now. But I was getting lost because there was no subtitles on the IMA screening. It's like, what are they saying? Like, what are these big sci-fi words you're talking about, especially with how some of the actors and the way they're... Like the Barron, for example, like his, the way he delivers some of his lines is so kind of gruff and mumbly, and I like that choice. But I was getting lost in some of the dialogue in terms of what he was actually saying, and I was finding that a bit frustrating. So the subtitles were too big on your IMAX? Because you were so close?

No, I'm saying there weren't subtitles. There weren't. I was struggling to understand. Like any of all. Yeah. because there's parts that are like in the screening I saw there were parts that have subtitles like in the alien language or whatever yeah yeah yeah but I feel like those parts are vital like you need that shit I watched it at home to piss off Dennisville and Auevae but I have a good system what's really funny is on my HBO max the subtitles just wouldn't turn on and it was like sorry I had the same experience I had the same experience of just like damn I wish there were subtitles here and it said that they were turned on and it was like sorry I'm sorry I had the same experience of just like damn I wish there were subtitles here and it said that they were turned turned on on my HBO Max thing, but they weren't. And so that was a little frustrating. Maybe I should have restarted the app. I have no idea. Speaking of sci-fi words, though, there's, I don't, I didn't

write every one of these down, but there were quite a few words in this universe that just sound like other words. And it was kind of weird. Like, Caledan. It just sounds like Canada. And I'm like, what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's like a bunch of them. It was really weird. Ben, Jeser is a confusing one. If you've never seen it written. Then you really have no idea, like, what's a pinpoint. Yeah. It did feel like a very grand world with all the language and the part one. It starts with part one.

It feels like there's more coming, that there is more to this world than just one movie, and that makes it feel a bit more epic. That's something I like about it. It definitely feels epic, not in like an ironic acro-o-man way. It does feel epic. You can't even fit it all in one movie. It does kind of feel like the start of Lord of the Rings. Except part one functions as its own film

There's like a journey within the first film They were making the other two movies Like at the same time basically as part one This is a little more up in the air If Lord of the Rings was never able to make two towers And the Return of the King Lord of the Rings of the first movie would still be one of the best movies ever Even if the other ones

I'm glad there's a part two to this But Dune It kind of depends on you imagining things to come right? Like that's like part of the experience or part of the forgiveness of this film

and I'm not sure I can get behind that I didn't hate the movie like there's a lot about it that I think it's well made but like even other films that were supposed to be like one single source material

and then retroactively split into two like Kill Bill. Kill Bill Volume 1 functions as its own film still you know there's so much more of a journey in that narratively there's so much more

satisfaction for what you're getting out of the characters and the narrative. I did not get that from Dune. Dune, it's like they spend a lot of time probably being very faithful to the book and, you know, I guess world building. But it also has to be in service of something. And it really didn't, if I can't get the basics of like a character that I love that I want to follow.

I didn't find any of the characters interesting in Dune. Like, that's a problem. You know, I'm really not getting the basics out of what I want of like a storytelling telling experience. Sure, there are some parts that are like nicely shot and the music works well with some parts and, you know, it feels epic and grand scale in some parts. But like, what is it in service of? I didn't, I didn't get the storytelling part. I didn't get the narrative. I didn't get the whole point that I want to watch like a big epic large scale film, you know. It's interesting you say that because I was watching some clips on YouTube and everything.

There's a lot of footage actually of Deney talking about this movie and there's some really good like breakdowns of certain scenes and whatnot on YouTube, I'd recommend watching. But I found a clip where he was, yeah, yeah, specifically talking about that Benegeserit box scene. I'm a big fan of this, like, a really good video. I've been breaking that down. But, yeah, I found a clip of him describing, and it's from his mouth too. He describes the first film, or Doom Part 1, as an appetizer and says with the real meal being

Dune Part 2. And this is before it's even confirmed. And I just think it's just unprecedented to me this kind of this approach. Dune Part 1 is the free bread. Yeah. I guess that's where I disagree with you. I was really engaged in what was happening. It just kind of stops.

And it's like, there we go. Yeah, it might even be more unsatisfying at the end if you're really engaged. Because it's like just starting to get interesting, you know? Like, oh. Yeah. The first major plot point, it kind of just peters off. And then like, Can we all agree regardless of what you think of the movie?

Can we all agree that the last line of the film is fucking bullshit? This is only the beginning. Like, that's cancer. I'm sorry. Even if you love the film, you have to admit that that's absolute fucking cancer. Like, that's cringe. I don't like that line up. It reminded me of The Hobbit did that where it's like, this is just the beginning of the war type stuff, you know?

There's another movie also, actually. Yeah, exactly. Maybe Sintaya will be in the next one more. Yeah. She's not in this movie a lot. She dreams of her. Yeah, a lot of like dreams sequences, yeah, yeah. There were a couple scenes I weren't, I weren't too keen on, like, I don't know, the scene

where like, are we in spoilers? Sure, can we get into spoilers? Spoilers. They get, like, kidnapped and put in a, like, a flying thing, like a ship. The rufflecopters, yeah, yeah. Did you call it a raffle copter? It's Rebecca Ferguson and Timothy Shalmy. It's like a helicopter with, like, wings or whatever, like a flying, it's like a,

Like a dragonfly. Yeah. But I found that scene very odd. There was kind of a comedic tone to it. Like, I don't know. It was a very weird scene. Just that one in particular. Yeah.

Yeah. I agree and understand what you're saying. And I felt the same way on the first watch. But I just feel like it is so dense and it's so accurate to that book, it seems. And from the feedback I've read and Doom fans seem really happy with how it's come together. there is like so much context that you're missing with it almost it almost needs like a forward with like breakdown of like words and factions and what it all means because it is just such a like a such an expansive world a five part motion comic yeah well at least we're not starting on doom

part three yeah give us a give us a simerillion yeah um i i guess i just i did find those characters is interesting and the whole framing of it. It's a really interesting science fiction world and that there are kind of restrictions on the technology. So it also feels ancient and it feels like they have all of these almost more fantasy type structures where it's kind of, you know, Game of Thronesy with the houses and the different, you know, political, just the inherent political aspect of it. Yeah.

Yeah. That was fascinating to me. The betrayal and that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I feel like, so my. My roommate, Gail, who came on to talk about Ainsanti, he's a big Lord of the Rings nerd, like the biggest maybe ever.

And last time I watched the Lord of the Rings for the podcast, I watched it with him. And, you know, I'd already seen it so many times. But he had a lot of commentary. And I loved it. There was a lot of interesting stuff I didn't know and just like context, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was a very different experience watching it that way with this nerd commentary over top. I feel like this first Dune movie is something that I would probably enjoy more with that sort of thing. I don't think he's a Dune Nerd.

So I don't know if I'm ever going to get that. But if I just had some dweeb, some dork next to me talking about all the stuff that I'm supposed to enjoy about it, I think it probably would have been a better movie for me. You know? Paul Atreides is the blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah. We keep bringing up Lord of the Rings. And, um, it, Dune is kind of known as the, the kind of equivalent for the science fiction genre that Lord of the Rings is to fantasy in terms of how, like, seminal and important and how just crucial to pop culture and science fiction specifically as a genre and how.

Yeah. It's just everything. There's no science fiction story that doesn't kind of go back to it. Like everyone I've been pointing out all the Star Wars comparisons and the all this stuff and it's some toxic conversations to come from. I was just playing Mass Effect 3 yesterday, and there was some Threshermise. Yeah, the Threshermonds. Yeah, the Thresherm was the whole worm thing. Yeah, it's just that world building. It's so genius from like an ecology aspect, how the core of the world is basically, well, the core of the conflict is a planet, Iraqis, a desert planet where these giant worms produce this drug, spice melange.

which is the most valuable resource Yeah, that's the full name. Because you were saying, yeah, like the, you need like a nerd to go in and like explain it. That's what I've been doing. I've been like on the Dune Wiki that going in. Oh, you want to watch it with me next time? You want to be a nerd for me?

Oh, hell yeah. Yeah, I'm getting more and more into it. And I even, I don't know if it was counting as spoiling it for myself. It didn't feel like spoiling it for myself. But I went back and watched the, Lynch version and the documentary of Jodorowski's Dune and had just a fantastic time. I'm curious about the Lynch version, but because I haven't seen the second half of the story, why would I watch that yet?

I want to kind of experience everything for the first time. Yeah, like, why would you watch the second half of the movie and the worst version? I really feel like nothing was spoiled for me after watching that Lynch one. Okay, the whole story. Yeah, it really, genuinely, I really, don't think, like spoil anything. Yeah. I don't know if like Dune fans would disagree with me or whatever,

but that film is so out there and strange and different and such a failure, quite frankly. Yeah, it's pretty terrible. Yeah. But I was really enjoying, like, contrasting it to this new one and just how effective this new one is in comparison just with like kind of basic storytelling stuff. Like that original, the 80s one begins with like a, it's like a woman's face like floating in space just with this massive exposition dump that just goes on and on.

And it's full of stuff like that and like the shields and everything are like hilarious in the it's so corny. Yeah. Everything in that movie. Yeah. Dennyville Knott is like better at making this kind of movie for sure. Guy made a rival. He has some experience making this kind of film. Yeah. I would argue Blade Runner 2049 is even a better

example because that's also like adaptation of a previous property. Anyway, speaking of exposition dumps, I really enjoy the first, like, half hour of the movie in how they handled information in particular. Because there are moments that kind of are exposition dumps. But they do it in kind of interesting ways.

So he's essentially just, like, reading this, like, what's like a codex? And they're talking about the, what are they called? The Iraqis. Like, what do they call them? Or is that a place? Arachis. Arachia. I was trying to wrap my head around all the different facts.

Fremen, the Fremen, Fremen. Fremen. They're like explaining about the free man. And it's, you know, as I'm watching that, I'm like, oh, there's a lot of like cool, useful, interesting information in here. And traditionally, and especially in the science fiction genre, you just got like a block of text at the very beginning. Like, the year is blah, bra, blah, blah. Here are the political conflicts. And I appreciate that it didn't do that.

So like, even though, yes, what I'm watching at that moment is very clearly, oh, this is a exposition dump moment. it's like still something within the context of the universe where it's like oh the character's getting the exposition dump because they're seeking it out because it's a informational educational thing that he's doing right so i appreciated that yeah everything feeds into each other like it makes irakuscaria like the just the imagery of the the desert planet like it's very expressive everything and just allows for a lot of like fun sequences but on top of everything it's also i just love that the the book was written in the the 60s, but this, the overall metaphor of what it's about is still so prescient and it's still, it hits home really hard for me. And it just is such a core science fiction story of like, just breaking down current humanity and telling a story, like, reframing it with like the core tenets of the fuck-ups that the human race have traditionally like fallen into. Like, Iraqis is basically like the Middle East, you know, and how the West are like four over all oil. It's like the same thing, but it was written in the 60s.

It sounds like that. Yeah, yeah. I think it's just really clever and can really fit into, it's just, it's what good science fiction does. It just strikes at the truth of like, that's definitely what it's about. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sure, that's like one aspect of it. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Instead of oil, it's the spice, right. Which is the spice world. Power, basically. Yeah. But the spice isn't just like spice. It's not like, uh, yeah, they use it for. Gary's face.

Yeah. Magic. The way it impacts the world, but like it makes the inhabitants, it makes their eyes turn blue after a while. It's also a hallucinagee. Yeah. Which kind of plays into the main character.

I'm finding it hard to organize my thoughts because wait, just ramble on. I'm interested. Well, there's a lot going on. Yeah. Because, yeah, the main character is Paul. He's like basically the result of eugenics.

These Benny Jeserate kind of which type characters have been, they kind of imply they've been kind of crafting through the generations this, this, I've forgotten the term, but basically it's kind of a profit type character that they're, the one. Yeah,

the one type stuff. Right. Because he can see, he's got abilities, basically. There's this whole, the voice aspect where you can control people and he has the ability to see the past and present in certain ways that normal people can't.

And that acts as a lot of like, foreshadowing in the movie and it all helps with a build-up and it shows a it shows scenes that I assume are going to happen in in part two now that we're getting that and and all this and I found that and a great way to introduce someone into the world through Paul and he's quite an innocent sort of naive but hopeful and uh encouraging character who I keep seeing these like discussions about it being like a white saviour movie or whatever I don't know it feels like it's missing the point to me it feels like he's embracing everything that went wrong before with this whole because his dad tells him like we need to

instead of just fighting over the resource we need to get the the sand power or however he phrases it and that's kind of what it's about it's about him like actually listening to the the native people and embracing the environment and trying not to and it doesn't end like a new hope it isn't like a victorious ending it's kind of dower ending for this film Like he kind of lost everything, you know? Like, what did he save at the end? Yeah, I guess that's the thing with like, when you can trust it, something like Lord of the Rings.

There's like so much softness and heart to like Lord of the Rings, whereas Deney, he kind of, he revels more in the distant kind of cold science fiction. It just feels like his career has kind of been building to this point. And in all these interviews he's been talking about, like, when he first picked up Dune, the book, when he was like 14, 15 years old. And he's been trying to like reconnect with that, the imagery that was conjured into his mind when he read it as a kid.

And he seems really properly invested in the world. And I just think it's, this is how you adapt something of this, this import, you know? Like, it's what I want to see on this scale with like a director I want to see with the cast I want to see. It's basically every element I want to see. And there's, it doesn't really fall into the traditional pitfalls, I would say.

which is incredible considering the scope of that novel and just how dense it is and how it's connecting with a wide audience which I was scared about I figured I was I had faith the film was going to be good but I was concerned about the the wider appeal wow people liking it I mean yeah I thought it was going to bomb yeah and and and blade runner didn't they got they got they got Tim Cham they got Zendaya they got I think that's what saved it. They got, what's his name from Louis Davis? They got Javier.

Havier. They got Oscar Isaac. Ascar Isaac, thank you. It's a celebrity. Asked it's a celebrity dump. Asked Isaac was great. Yeah. Ascarzic was probably my favorite.

I don't find it a celebrity dump like a distraughting way, whereas that's what I mean about the pitfalls and normal movie like this will fall into. I just don't feel that with this movie. Especially the casting is down. I got distracted. I'm not like a huge Tim Cham fan

Honestly I like he was great and called me by your name I think he I think he works well when he's cast as gay twink man But otherwise in every other role I've seen him in like He's in a lot of things recently Yeah I'm not I'm not It's not like he's a bad actor or anything It's just like he's just like the same Yeah I'm really bored by him

Who's the Baron Scarsguard He was good yeah He's probably one of my favorite characters He's very like archetypal of villain. He's like Darth Vader or something. He's just like pure evil. And then Zendaya was good. Like lots of good effects with him.

Right? Yeah, Zendaya's just like one of the the Fremen, right? But she's supposed to be like, Paul's supposed to find her attractive I guess. So that's like they got some day I'm like, okay. It's weird. It's weird because it's like you got two people who would be considered what?

Like tween love them sort of thing? You like the heart throbs? Yeah. This is for like young people and then it's kind of like I don't know the implication is you're making it like kind of a less serious movie I don't know I think it in my mind it's just it's a little off it's a little distracting I would have preferred no names but then nobody would have watched it and we wouldn't get part two so whatever yeah that's the thing whereas um I I actually like um Timothy shallame's performance in the movie I think he gets some good scenes he gets to show at all yeah I but what comes

to mind in particular is he does a really good job in that scene where he's kind of hiding in one of the sand dunes with his mum in that fun bit of tech that can like protect them um from the environment for a bit and because all the the spice is like going into him he starts having these like visions and he's having a breakdown and he snaps at his mum and he's like you did this to me and that was a really strong scene i thought in terms of performance yeah i just i found him a likable main character i thought he was an appropriate main character main character because what you're describing, like, makes me think of like the Eternals. Yeah.

Which has like, that's like the cast, you know, it's got like all the Game of Thrones actors, Angelina Jolie, all these trending actors, and that wasn't enough because there was no core story though. Yeah, even Aquaman is in this and it didn't bother me. I like him. Jason MoMA.

Was his name Duncan Idaho? Yeah, that was such an odd character. If there's one thing I didn't like about the movie, maybe some of the trailers were a little too revealing with like the plot. Oh, I didn't watch. single trailer. Like, what was going to... Okay, that's good. I couldn't avoid them, like,

going to theaters. Oh, you know what I do? I've got a little trick for you. You either go to the bathroom when it starts playing, or close your eyes, plug your ears, and just hum very lightly to yourself. I've done that. Your friends might think you're a little autistic, but it totally works. Yeah, I don't know. I've done it. But they were, yeah, they were very, like, revealing with where his character was going. Like, that's a shame. Because he's good in the movie, I guess.

Well, and even with these huge caliber actors, like Charlotte Rampling for the Reverend Mother, you never see her face. She's covered the whole time, which I think shows like a commitment to the story and a commitment to his vision, a certain amount of restraint. Yeah, I just appreciated all of those kind of decisions. And it didn't pull me out at all even with, like, Josh, like, Thanos and Aquaman being in there. that that didn't bug me because then you do have

like your have your bar dems as well who's he's not in it much but he's a really memorable character who hammers home the whole the core themes of it you know embracing the environment and all this

yeah what did you what did you think about the music yeah I was just going to ask about that Hans Zimmer honestly I don't adore the music same

but I didn't even know I know it was Han Zimmer until after. I was like, what the fuck? Really? Whereas I felt like it was really quite hansimmery. I don't know. I don't have the capacity to sort of fully explain with the words what it was that bugged me about it. Because there are times where it definitely works in it.

Mm-hmm. 100%. It carries and assists the tone and everything. But there are also times where I feel like it's like overpowering the imagery. It's almost too much. 100%. Yeah. I'm glad I'm not alone in that.

that I I didn't realize it was Hans Zimmer until after but there were parts that I thought were Han Zimmery it just sounded like someone else trying to imitate a previous score from Tom Zimmer so there's like parts in this where it sounds like the instrumentation is like oh that's a little two Blade Runner 2049 it's just not as good and my god is like a second rate I mean he was working with somebody else when he did that too but anyway I regardless if it's the same person it's not about like oh who owns the rights to this combination of sounds it It's just, hey, I don't want to hear something that I associate with another film already. Whether or not it's just him recreating his own score.

It's like, maybe you should do a different score, you know? Like, maybe just, if you just started doing the inception theme again, I would be like, hey, that, like, come on, what are you doing? But yeah, there's just a lot about the soundtrack here that just doesn't gel. We had those, like, a fucking Snyder cut Wonder Woman noises, like, ha, ha, ha. Like, and we're in, we're in spoiler. territory but like it's just when that character died I forget her name and she like immediately

right after she gets stabbed Kinds K-Y-N-S Yeah she rolls down the fucking hill Like holy shit that was so inappropriate that was so bad Oh my god like that was awful That was really cringe It's awful

There's a I'm put out in that exact same For this film Yeah those moments Yeah, those sucks. Those parts kind of suck. I thought Zimmer's like stuff for Blade Runner of 2049 was really good. It was amazing.

It was great. Yeah, I think actually in all this science fiction movies, the music has, well, most of his movies, the music has stood out. Like a rival I really associate with some unique sounds. Did he score that? Not Hans Zimmer, sorry, but I'm getting mixed up. You got passed away. Yeah, yeah. Oh, was that?

Did he pass away? Yeah, I think that was, um, fuck, that's his name. That's a shame. Ah, Hansen. Yo, Johan said or something. Yeah, that's name noted down. But I really enjoy what he brings to Denise's movies.

Check out last and first men is great. Yeah, yeah. He compliments your nerves really well. And because I kept picturing that like, man, I wish it was kind of leaning more into that, those kind of sounds and that kind of reserved. Yeah, who knows? Because at the same time,

this is trying to be like a big epic you know it's trying to be kind of I don't know what you want to call it Star Warsy or something like what kind of words do we want to use here like one of my biggest problems with the soundtrack and this doesn't happen throughout thank fucking Christ but there are a few scenes where they're literally just spamming us with

boom and it's like fucking do you not understand like that that sound will be looked at with the same level of seriousness as that like water phone that's in kitchen nightmares you know like that's what's gonna happen in like 10 years like we're spamming the shit out of this boom and it's just going to be reflective of the decade people are going to use that to parody films from this time period right like it's just so annoying it's so lazy yeah it's exactly copy and paste it's the same shit it's the yeah put in a sound effect it's always might as well

have a laugh track yeah it's kind of the equivalent it's interesting that because Hans Zimmer like he turned down Nolan to work on this He's one of the long time passion projects Like he's wanted to do Dune music Yeah It wasn't quite there for me in terms of that stuff Which

Yeah I don't know what the fuck he was thinking He's on the size He's a drunk He could have done the tenant score Which I thought the tenet score was great Yeah That guy Ludwig

Ludwig Gorenson I think Yeah And then, yeah, for this, it was something epic, as Sam Smith would say. There was some epic things about it. The score is trying to be epic, yeah. It's not like the entire soundtrack didn't work for me. It was more key moments that pulled me out of it that I was not expecting to happen. Because I've never experienced that with any of his previous movies even.

Yeah, for the most part, I like the music. I'm just like teasing it. I agree what you were saying. Yeah. I'm looking at my notes. In the first half hour of the film, my note was like, great soundtrack so far.

Like, a lot of my issues with the film don't really show up until like, past the 40 minute mark or something. Like, in the first good chunk of the film, I was like totally into it. I was like so loving it.

You know, I already mentioned just the way they delivered information. But even just, even something like that, like over the course of the film, it's like, it gets a bit more confusing

and it's not as like efficient with what it's doing. time-wise and information-wise and, you know, all this context into the world building, but we don't really get the result or the end satisfaction of that context, like within this film for the most part. And it's like,

damn, like, what am I left with? Like, I feel like I shouldn't have watched this until just before the second movie. Like, I feel like this was the wrong time to see it. Like, I should have waited a couple years. Yeah, I can see that.

But I do think if the if part two is of the same quality it will raise this movie up in my mind you know if it if it does build up and pay off in a satisfying way and that's not to say there aren't sort of payoffs within this movie like you mentioned that scene earlier ralph with the there's a deaf character and they have to use the voice and it's kind of timothy paul using the voice like efficiently and saving them um for the first time whereas previously that kind of he's He's pretty bad at it and, you know, it was establishing what the voice is and what it means.

Yeah, he was clumsy with the scene. I guess that's why I found it awkward because then Rebecca Ferguson, like, gets on gagged. She starts, like, using the voice. And then, like, one of the pilots starts using the voice. They have, like, a little voice off, like a little sing-off. It's kind of, like, ridiculous. I don't know. To go to, like, back to the music, I guess, because we were talking about that,

there's, like, the scene with where the Benad Jesuit, I guess, leave their planet, like, toward the beginning. Like, I thought that was a good use of music. It was like a very short kind of choir, I guess. Like, it's just a choir. There's definitely really, you never, you never really hear that again. Like, it's used very sparingly. Like, that's why I liked it.

Like, you know, there's good parts like that. There were some fun parts with the bagpipes too. Yeah, the bagpipes are fun. It's like a little homage to Star Trek Rathicon, I guess. Like, when, you know, there's like a character death. And they give them like a little funeral on that with bagpipes. That's kind of how I interpret. interpreted anyway. It's like science fiction. I don't know if that's in the book. Does anyone know?

I've not read the source material. I haven't delved into the book yet. So my to do. But I just thought that was, yeah, I thought that was a cool touch. This is like really cool imagery and especially when the bagpipes are playing like at that, uh, the battle scene toward the middle. Just running and blaring music. You know, the, there's parts of the recipe that are there in the film. I just like a spaceship or something. like crashing. I just wish it was more in service of something. Epic imagery. Yeah.

Like there's a sequence of the story of Paul Atreides, which is just like, you know, it's a very like archetypal. It's a very like archetypal like guy coming up with guy

coming a hero, I guess. You know, we're only part one. Yeah, I don't know. I'm, uh, I see those sequences.

And I'm like, man, like this is a great audio visual moment. But in the greater context, of the film, I really just don't give a shit about why anything's happening, and it's kind of a problem. It's a me problem, I'll admit that, but like, fuck, I wish it wasn't. Yeah, I like that whole invasion sequence, because it's kind of what propels Paul into the next stage of his story,

because, like, his whole family is pretty much wiped out everything he knows. Like, it's like the next step to it, and it reveals also, like, that it was basically a trap that were just, they were sent there to die just to be wiped out. Yeah. And there's something scary about there. This is the whole imagery of it. Yeah, very impressive. The orange. Yeah, lots of fire. I like, it's like the only bit of action really in the movie, like, for the most part.

The only bit of like grand action you'd expect when watching like a blockbuster like this. That was it. There's like a little fight scene toward the end. It's very, there's a pretty fun worm scene early on, which is kind of action. It's a fun, tension-filled scene with the, those like

machines that pick up the sand crawlers or whatever like malfunctioning so then you got the whole saving the team and whatnot that stuff was cool I like that a lot sure how'd you feel about like the hand to hand combat with like the swords and they had these shields where you could like

it was like blue if you hit it but you could penetrate yeah that was one thing I was strong enough or if you hit it at like the right angle it would turn red and you go like and then it would kill you how did feel about that. It's kind of awkward. This seems like something that I need to, like, read the wiki page on or have explained in

the book, because it's something that original 80s movie proper stumbles on, too. It's like the shield's scene in, like, the original 80s one is hilarious. It's like, can't wait. It's ridiculous. Yeah, the ledge one is terrible. When I first saw this, I was like, are they doing this because of the rating and they can't show, like, blood and, like, trillions? true violence, whatever, because it's like hordes of people having, like, the, the throats cut.

And it's, like, violent. It's an invasion that they're trying to take everyone out, but you don't really see too much blood or whatever, but. Yeah. There is something kind of visually messy when there's, like, the two waves, like, clashing, and there's, like, the red and blue, like, zz, zh, that wasn't fully working for me. Yeah. It was fine.

I was just more, like, confused as to, like, what quite is the technology here? what is even the purpose of these shields they can't. It's, it's, I think they're supposed, I think they're supposed to kind of explain why, like, people don't use guns on each other. They block things that are fast. They shoot Oscar Isaac with something, remember? So it's like, okay, so they have the technology like pierced through the show.

But it's not, but it shot him with something that, like, went slower as it went into him. It was, like, burrowing into it, kind of. Yeah, it had to, like, penetrate the shield. Yeah. Which is silly. But still, it did exist, you know. Or you could just shoot them with like a cannon.

Yeah, fucking blow them up. You just fucking blow them up. Yeah. Suffocate them in a goop grenade. That was just a little bit. It doesn't take away from the movie at all. I was just, I kept thinking about that technology. Yeah.

It was just one of the few times where I was confused by the world building. As opposed to like most of the world building I find fascinating. Yeah. Like there's this fight scene with Jason Mamoa. Like he uses the shield and they penetrated, I guess. I guess that was fine. I like the action scene toward the end more where they were just fighting

and there was no shields or like any of that kind of technology. They just, you know, more bare bones. Yeah. Yeah, that was actually another one of my dings against it was that sacrifice Aquaman scene

was, didn't really hold much emotion or, you know, or really hit in any way. He might not really be dead. That's kind of the sense I got. But that's the thing, yeah, I don't want to come too hard on some of the things, depending on what comes like, you know.

You definitely have the sense he could come back. Yeah, I don't know. Because if he doesn't, then it's not exactly like the deepest character or anything. He serves his purpose. He needs to be in the story. So Paul has some kind of background on the, I keep forgetting their names, the faction that lived there already. Yeah, the Freeman.

The Freeman. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, because he goes to meet them kind of off screen. Yeah, he gets intel on them, he lives with them, so he knows what they're about and how they fight and everything. Yeah. So Paul has, you know, some idea of where to go and what to do once the calamity hits. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I don't know. The characterization, it's not like the strongest thing about it. Like, that's not what I connected to the most. It's definitely like the atmosphere. I like the music, the visuals. Yeah. All the characters are like, they're just fine. Archetypals, a good word for it.

They're just like all kind of fit. Archipical. Archetyp, yeah. It's just fine, yeah. I suppose they're archetypal, but they're enhanced by the world building for me. Yeah, by that. Some of them are enhanced by the actors, like Oscar Is. Yeah, and the Baron, like I said.

There's a lot of good characters like that, the more tertiary side characters. and yet that world is really cool the world is a character in and of itself and the sandworms and all that shit it's actually crucial to everything why the fact does Mr. Isaac not have an

Oscar yet maybe for this movie I don't think so he does a great job in it though honestly I mean he really separates himself and makes him distinguishable from other characters he's played just in the way he speaks like it's a really great performance in this movie so

there's no reason why you shouldn't get a non but it's not I don't think this is a performance non-movie. Right. Maybe card count. Although, you don't like movies like that.

It's a little too dark. Yeah. We'll see. I don't think that'll be nominated. It should be. Yeah. And this too. This might get nominations for like

visual effects. I thought the visual effects were noticeably worse than Blade Runner 2049. Really, I was about to ask what you thought the visual effects. Yeah.

Some shots, I could see what you're saying, but like the spaceship shots I thought were excellent. I mean, yeah, there's some shots that look great. When they were blowing up especially. Like, that was fucking cool. I never had a moment in Blade Runner 2049 where I was

like, that looks like kind of weird CG thing, you know? But I had a few of those in June and I was like, ah shit, I guess the actors really ate up a lot of the budget, didn't they? And also in 2049, you know, you can look at the behind the scenes footage. There's a lot of surprisingly practical ways

that they achieve those effects. The practical stuff in this looks cool. I think it was the same kind of things here. the models. I think this is more ambitious with the creatures and the spaceship, like the space travel, the dune setting. Like, it's much more ambitious with that stuff. The battle scenes.

Like, that was like the only issue, like the shot of Timothy Shalameh, like in the battle. That looked like shit. I was just about to mention that. Yeah, that did look like shit. Yeah, that looked like shit. Like, holy shit. And they, like, show that in the trailer. Like, it's, you know, one of the best moments.

Yeah, like, really. His head's like weirdly proportioned. It doesn't look like it should fit. his helmet. I forgive it more so because it's not really a scene in this movie. It's like a flash forward. Yeah. It's a vision.

It's just a coincidence that his vision looks like shit CG. It's so coincidental. It's not real. Yeah. It's a vision. It's like free guy when he's like watching himself from the TV. It's like a see shot. It is a rare occurrence though.

I think for the most part the implementation of the visual effects and how obscured they often are just enough just in the right way so it that everything kind of fits the environment you're never particularly pulled out by bad CG aside from a couple times like the one you said put like the whole those uh raffle copters that are flying around I thought they were cool cool as fuck like the action that came from those so impractic they're so impractic no one would design that no one would manufacture that yeah that I was thinking if I If this were a film, if this was a Ralph Bakshi animated film, those would feel right at home. And I wouldn't be complaining about it at all.

But this film is going for such a serious, serious dark tone where I'm just like, those just showing up. I'm like, really? Come on. It doesn't match the rest of the film in tone. And yeah, I get it. It's source material. You got to adapt it from the book.

Maybe you should consider what tone you're adapting the book into then. I don't know. With things like that, I thought like, you know, you could make like a good parody out of This movie. It looks so stupid. It looks so dumb. Yeah. I was thinking that with like some of the costumes like the Benad Jeser, they have like these

really tall like cats or hoods. Like I was thinking like you could like extend it up like off the screen like it's out of frame like really tall. Yeah. I love those raffle copters and like the action when they like fold their wings back. I love that you call them. I can't remember what they're actually called that. It is maybe mildly self-aware.

Dragonfly helicopters. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, when they fold their wings back in the action scene with Aquaman flying around in one, it's like a really good action scene. It seems like such an inefficient use of energy in order to get flight. Like, what the fuck? Oh, yeah, for sure. It's got to be not very spice efficient or whatever. Holy shit.

Yeah, I guess it just didn't bug me too much when you have like the big flying guy and the voice and all this. I don't know. That side of it didn't pull me out as much. Yeah. There's some silly stuff. I don't know. There was a box that hurts you when you put your thing in it. Yeah, this is one where I guess reading around it made the scene better. Yeah. I think what is happening is the Benegesireate, like a old woman character,

is making him feel the pain or something. Oh. And it's if he can hold his hand in the box and fight that urge to, you know the animal urge to tray he's into BDSM he's fine yeah what's that scene on YouTube it's broken down it's up to interpretation but yeah that's what they're

going for I think that's what makes it work if to like think about it but the execution of that scene and how they execute on the voice concept and in these videos where he's talking about it he's describing like because in the 80s version when they use the voice it's like an awkward like oh then they're a zombie

and they slowly walk from one side of the room to the other. That sounds fine. Yeah. But then you contrast it with here, and it's just such a quick, snappy, you're kind of locked with Paul from his perspective, and you're just shoved into the next scene, and it's like delirious, and it's, yeah, it's really effective.

Yeah, the presentation and stuff. That's, like, some of the most creative stuff for the movie. Yeah, like, just that scene with the box. That's, like, one of the best scenes. Yeah, the box itself apparently it's accurate to the book. Yeah. It's just a box. Like, there's nothing in it.

Or I guess you don't know what's in it. Yeah. Yeah, I took it as just like a mind trick kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. Like the force. All right, what, I think we're all done talking about this unless there's any other shit. God, you out of ten.

Yeah, I think we talked about it a while. It's a long movie for no reason. Well, because people are really looking forward to it. Make it longer. That's what people want. I mean, finish the fucking story. It's longer because of the, the main thing. I don't know. Kill Bill Volume 1's an hour and 51 minutes. It's like 40 minutes less than this. And I can think of like a billion times more plot beats and, you know, just things that the character does. Like the pacing's so different. I that, you know, it's a very different film. But like, I don't know. That's kind of what I want. Do you not think they should prioritize the accuracy of that book in the same way you would for like Lord of the Rings? I don't give a shit about the book. You're supposed to translate it to a film? But that's the story though, you know? Like the, the Dune's.

story. You got to do it right. Yeah, well, how does it, if I'm a person that's never read the book, how would I know that it's accurate to the book? Like, I'm not saying they should take liberties and change it into something completely different. I'm saying you don't need to include every single time a character farted for no reason, you know, like... Well, I found the kind of obtuseness to be alluring in terms of, this is just scratching the surface of this universe and from my understanding with the way the books go. And it feels like it's a small part of a big thing. And I find that's really interesting. I would be more in your lane if this were a mini-series, and this was the first two or

three episodes. It could be the exact same. It could be literally nothing's changed other than just the format and how it's broken up. I think I would have enjoyed it more. When you're selling this as a single film, even though it says part one, and then they change the title to remove the part one so that people bought the tickets, whatever. Like, that's a completely different expectation as a viewer. It's a completely different way to digest time flowing.

and pacing than if you you know the implication was like oh there's like a six part mini series or something like that would have been that would have worked out better for me experience wise I didn't digest it as well I was on the same page as you until they confirmed part two was happening and then I felt more confident like okay now I feel safe I can kind of invest in this universe I can I revisited the film I had a different experience had subtitles on so I got she tell what was like peak said yeah subtitles help yeah There's only two, apparently. There's only going to be two.

That's good. That'd be weird if they split it into three more or something. But yeah, I'm fully expecting to have my perspective changed in some way the next time I watch it. I just don't want to watch it really, maybe, probably until the next movie is already out, you know? Yeah, it's fair enough because it's probably going to take a while now. Because unlike something like Kill Bill or. Yeah, yeah, from my understanding, it's like the end of 2023. is currently, which is, you know, a long time.

Yeah, it'll be good. I heard they're going to try and compete with Pop Patrol, too, in theaters. I don't know if they're going to make their money. I think more people are going to see Pop Patrol too. Yeah, I just find this really interesting. Like, I can't think of another example of this type of story being split up and then just never having any concrete confirmation. I think that's so funny and weird.

But I'm glad we're getting a part two. otherwise this would just be a bizarre stand-alone half a book movie yeah that would be there's another time line where that exists yeah can you imagine how frustrating how frustrated Dune fans would be

if they just got like a little taste a little cockties of what they could have had yeah there would be so many change.org petitions oh yeah that would do nothing yeah go fund me

Dune part two All right Six out of ten for me It could change up It could change Dan I don't know I'm not gonna see it again for a while But

I will be seeing it again Before part two comes out Some great stuff in it Some cancerous stuff in it As well It's fine I'm higher than that My current thought process is

Before a part two was confirmed I was like I'm just not gonna rate this Because I just don't know How to rate half story right and then now I know that's coming I say four star there are too many little things that bother me

like the music like certain shots certain choices here and there certain some of the obtuseness can be a bit much but I'm liking it more and more the more time I'm spending trying to figure out this world and to spend time in it and I do want to spend more time in it but we haven't really mentioned the pacing but for how long it is I thought it flew by even that first time, and it was just more of a, oh, is that it?

I want more. And yeah, so four-star, I could see it going up depending on whatever the part two is like in the future. There's a lot of potential here. Yeah, I'd go eight out of ten also, same as you. It's mainly Timothy Shalameh. Him and this French dispatch, I don't like him that much. That scene in the 10, yeah, that was a strong scene. That was like his one scene where he was like really good.

Yeah, Oscar Isaac was good, the Baron. Yeah, the Box. Charlotte Ramplings in that scene too. Yeah. Rebecca Ferguson, I thought she was like really good. I heard some criticism about her. I thought she was good. Yeah, she plays a really interesting character.

Yeah, I like the music. I like the visuals. I liked all that stuff. It's a really great like science fiction movie. It's better than most of this shit you're going to get. It's probably better than Eternals. probably sure yeah so yeah definitely check this out dink

yeah it had 10 closer to a 9 we all saw last night in soho the new edgar right film and i watched it and was like more like Edgar wrong what do you think oh Edgar can do no wrong yeah i kind of went in knowing that it was getting a mixed reception and yeah for that first act i was kind of like oh

Maybe I'm going to be, like, outside of the normal opinion here. Spoiler talk also. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we might as well do full spoilers. It seemed very different for him. It seemed like a different kind of movie for him. Yeah, it's still familiar. Not as much of a comedy in that it wasn't good.

Is that way, yeah, but not as much of a comedy overtly, at least not overtly. There's funny parts. Yeah, it's called comedic elements. Even Baby Drivers, like a crime comedy. I don't know This isn't really his schick Yeah I guess that's where I was also getting hung up on it Whereas yeah before the comedy has been balanced with like

What like action or It's been shrouded in layers of irony Whenever he's trying to do like any serious toast It saved him so many other times And even in that way it's usually stronger Like even the crime elements are like stronger than like the kind of horror elements in this movie

and this is much more of a horror like a straight up horror movie it's a baby it's trying to scare you with like kind of haunted house type shit like zombies and like red lighting like a goosebumps bed sheets it's like oh okay it's a lot of like

references to prostitution that's like the only adult thing about it yeah right but it's like very sanitize very lame kind of yeah Yeah, there is a slow buildup of tension going on for the first act that I was really enjoying. It was going somewhere.

It was building up something I liked. I really enjoyed that main character. I thought she was really likable and vulnerable at the beginning. And I was liking where she was going and her whole fashion angle and all this. But yeah, it's the horror stuff I'm hung up on because during the scenes where it becomes more of a horror movie and it's trying to, I guess, scare you. And I just didn't find that stuff effective at all. Like, it wasn't scaring me. It wasn't thrilling me or like, Sean of the Dead is obviously he's like rooted in horror.

But it's not trying to actually, well, actually, to be honest, that film scares me more than this one. Yeah. Yeah, it's ripped apart in the window still like that. It's like traumatizing stuff. His mom dies. Yeah, like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, true. Yeah, there's actually a lot more kind of effective.

Yeah, much more disturbing than what kind of. of these kind of zombie ghost men that are flying around that they represent something I guess more evil than how they come across they're just kind of like just zombies yeah right

the zombie part is so like it doesn't really enhance the fear I'm sorry like how many how many fucking movies are we gonna get where it's just like main character is hallucinating some things and nobody believes them and then they go to a library and do some research and find a thing and then there's like a bait and switch and it turns out the person that they thought

was evil wasn't evil and then the blah blah blah like how many fucking times are we going to do it how am i honestly supposed to see this film and be like oh yeah Edgar wright was really inspired to make this movie why did he even make it like what the who the fuck does that who who has this idea in their head and is like yeah this will this will be great like what are you doing it is weird considering the the cliches he'd make fun of in the in the Cornetto trilogy. Yeah, everything else that he's made is just protected by layers of irony. And as soon as he strips that away, he makes a shit movie.

It was part of what I was so excited about with this movie because, yeah, it was being sold as, yeah, it's his first proper foray into horror. And it's kind of like the inverse of like an ariaster where it's like, come on, let's see something else. Let's see what we can, you know, what we can do if you explore a different genre here. But yeah, it doesn't come together. It really doesn't. No.

Especially that final scene in the house with the twist reveal and the way that plays out. It removes a lot of the subtlety. Yeah, a lot of the subtlety that was baked into that. Predictable. That intro, like, first act where, yeah, because the execution of that, I thought, was stupandus. Like, she goes into the 60s for the first time, and there's really creative camera work. And, yeah. Yeah, and there's, like, a lot of injuries.

intrigue and mystery and like what's going on, where's the going? I really felt like it was going somewhere and that it had a point to make too, because the main character is rooted in this sort of nostalgia for the 60s. She loves the fashion and everything it represents. And I thought it was going to be about illuminating the dark side of, you know, the truth of what a lot of the stuff in the 60s is going on behind the red curtain. And there's like a ton of stuff and it's really like relevant. about different times.

Yeah, yeah. And just the general nostalgia obsession that everyone has. It's a real midnight in Paris. That's a good call to a story for me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But yeah, it feels like by the time you are like getting to the old lady, stabbing the boyfriend in the stomach and whatnot.

It gets kind of campy silly. Without the layers of irony and without the self-awareness that his other films have had. It's like I wish that this same movie was making fun of, it's stupidity, right? And near the beginning, it almost seemed to, like, there was a comedic element with her bully, and just how many times she's just going to get bullied by this one girl. And eventually that was, that kind of got old pretty quick.

You know, I was like, oh, really? She's just going to breathe and sneer at her? Like, okay, whatever. Yeah, that kind of builds up to nothing, doesn't it? Yeah, it really doesn't even matter. It doesn't go anywhere. Yeah, the most it goes to is the spiking scene, which, again, also doesn't really get too much.

It's a misdirect. that's what this movie does a lot she has it she has an incorrect like vision like when she sees the dude stabbing her other version of herself I mean what she thought was herself when she sees the dude stabbing the woman on the bed and then later

when the reveal happens that it's like oh the landlord was blah blah blah blah blah then she gets the same vision again and she's like oh I was wrong it was actually she did the stabbing like the only reason there's any plot in this film is because you're having these visions.

So for there to be one pivotal scene where it's like, oh, this one was wrong and we're not going to explain why it was just, she was like, I don't know, she was just confused that day. But it literally only exists for the purpose of misdirecting the audience and nobody else. I mean, like, I guess the main character, but the audience by extension, you know, it just seems so slimy and dishonest and manipulative. Like, what the fuck is that? Yeah.

Why is, it's not even a cool twist. It isn't. It's not even like. No. crazy or interesting. It's like, oh, you're making a point, I guess. But that would have been so much more interesting. I agree with you, Alex, that it removes the subtlety. That would have been so much more interesting if it was like subtext to read into about the film. If we got something like a horror movie where later people could be discussing about like, oh, what does this mean sort of,

oh, it's about, you know, objectification of women and prostitution and blah, blah, blah, blah, right? That would have been cool, but it kind of just spells it out and does so in a very dishonest and stupid, annoying way. It's been annoying. What an awful third act. Yeah, I actually found this article to do with this exact thing. It's like a collider article, so it would take it or leave it what you want. But it has a quote from the writer who co-wrote with Edgar Wright on this.

Quoted saying, that original twist was always there, and that was for me the key idea to the female empowerment. Wilson Cowan said, I'd never seen a villain like that before. I'd never seen a villain where I don't agree with what she does, but I empathize. thighs with what she does. That was such a crucial element that hooked me in. I think that without that twist, I might not have been as interested in the film. She hasn't seen, she hasn't seen a lot of movies then. Yeah, that's the thing because I was like, wait, what? That's like so many villains, right? That's a good villain. Yeah. Yeah, but the whole movie is like built around that twist. I almost feel like that's the hook. And it's not that special, at least in my mind. As far as like horror movies or kind of horror

movies that come out this year. I enjoyed James Juan's malignant like much more. It was much more self-aware. Yeah, I did finally watch it. Yeah. Like, it does actually build to something really cool. Like, that ending is great. Like, even if it's over the top, like, at least it's fun.

And this doesn't build to any. This is like, it gets worse as it goes along. Yeah, it does kind of peter off. And like, once it like, once it throws down its hand, like, oh, that's what this movie's about. You're like, oh, that's really kind of dumb. Wow, I don't care. Yeah, I don't care. And it's not like a good subversion.

Like the movie doesn't twist in a way that's like in a good way. It's not okay. It's like, oh, that's actually, I don't like where this movie's going now, but I guess that's what's going to happen. And then it plays out. And you're like, okay. There's another misdirect, isn't there? There's the other misdirect with the old man who you're supposed to think is. That was so stupid.

Young doctor. Well, old Doctor who. He was a bad actor, I'm just going to say. His performance was bad. He just gets like hit by a car. Like, it's like Wish Upon, like, or any shitty horror movie, just like get hit by a car. Yeah, fateful findings.

It's always so dumb. Like, if you try to scare someone, don't just like have a character to get hit by like a random car. Final destination. In final destination, it's a little more pivotal. Like, that's kind of the point of the killer. Doesn't the main character kind of instigate him being hit by the car too? Like, would he be doing all that if she wasn't?

Yeah. She was like arguing with him. Interrogating him on false information. Yeah, I think that was kind of the point Because she's already like oh, they think I'm murdering people Yeah Right But then does it make her more likable as a character?

It adds something complicated to the character But they never like address it or It doesn't go anywhere It doesn't build a lot of things that don't go anywhere Yeah Yeah And then with the whole fucking Like even during the twist scene

It's like okay I'm already pissed off at like The twist and how it was revealed And then they do that stupid fucking dumb cliche like, hey, there's a fire, but it's going to be burning for like 10 minutes while we settle this resolution of the film. Like, I'm sorry, you should understand how quickly smoke will engulf a place. Like, honestly, I think it's genuinely, like, this might be like, ooh, alarmist Adam or whatever. I think it's genuinely kind of irresponsible that so many films are painting like, oh,

there's a house fire of like, oh, yeah, you can just hang out and the fire's burning for a while. Like, because there's certain things where it's like, if you don't. see that in real life. Like most people haven't experienced indoor fires, right? And so if people have only seen something in a movie, they might get conditioned in a weird way to expect something. Like, when people hear gunshots for the first time, if you interview people like that survived mass shootings, they're like, I didn't know that's what guns sounded like. It doesn't sound anything like in a movie. Like, we condition people in weird ways of what to expect by what we put in films. And I think it's fucking irresponsible to portray fire like that. Because

it's not just like stupid and unrealistic, but it will get people. killed if that's what they're expecting. If you if you got the stomach for it, search up the footage of the station nightclub fire, but that comes with a content warning, obviously. But if you're interested in being paranoid in every public place you enter, enough to look at the fire exits as soon as you get in, then that's a video to watch. But it might save your life one day. So there's my little PSA, I guess. Be cool about fire safety. Yeah. Be cool about fire safety. Yeah. About by your safety. This movie was cancer.

Man, yeah. It's even thinking about it, it's just like, there's really not much to it because it is all structured around that twist. And if that twist doesn't work, it doesn't work. What do you have left? Like, you can't. Yeah, then you can't really revisit it even because then the stuff I loved on that first watch,

that first half, where I was like really liking what it was building up to it. Yeah, it almost means nothing. We've talked about this before, where the, when the opening is stronger than the ending, or if the ending really peters out, it always gets it a lot more when it's weighted that way, because it's the last taste of it. Yeah, we have talked about that before.

We like movies that get better as they go along, like, like, malignant, where if it, like, built to something really cool. Yeah, like, that's why I liked it. Or even, like, I said before, like, setting up kind of what you are at the beginning in terms of, like, a movie, if the first 10 minutes of this movie had set up some kind of paranormal thing, I don't know if it did that well enough. Because at least you know what kind of movie you're getting. You know, because then it becomes this thing where I don't know, I don't know if I really like where it went.

I don't care if it's set up paranormal aspects at the beginning. I care that the tone is weirdly different. I feel like, I feel like the tone of the movie changed throughout. Definitely totally existence. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I guess, but it was, it just felt like it didn't really know what it wanted to be throughout and then kind of eventually ended. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah, it was sort of the wrong type of horror.

Yeah. It was very paint by numbers, very boring, predictable. The tone of it, honestly, at points, reminded me of Velvet Bulbuzzsaw. Yeah, which I really didn't like. Oh, God, Buzzsaw. Yeah. Velvet Buzzsaw was cancer. Yeah, this is maybe a little better.

I actually, I enjoyed the way this movie was made too much for that movie to be, like, conjured in my mind. Because it does all fall on the writing to me, because I thought the production design was excellent. and there's loads of really memorable visuals and good, like, practical stuff with all the mirrors and that dance sequence with the three people and two of them playing the same character, like subbing out is, and all being in camera and stuff,

it's really impressive and creative and what you want to see from Edgar Wright, but it doesn't serve something like the Cornetto trilogy or Baby Driver do in the same way. Or even Scott Polger. I like Scott Polger. I like Scott Polger much more than this. I forgot. That was a movie, but I liked that too.

Scott Fuller. I'd be down to re-watched. It's definitely his weakest film if you don't count that western. I've never seen that western that you made. The Western? He made a Western. Yeah, right? It's like his first movie.

I've never, I've only looked at it on INDB. I've never actually checked it out. Or he made that show. I love Space. Space. Yeah. Space is awesome. Yeah.

Yeah. Everybody check out Space. Yeah. Check out Space, not this. Very awkward film, Fredger, right? It's like an egg, right film, but also trying to be like a genuine horror movie,

not like a funny one like Sean the Dead. Yeah. It just seemed weird. Like, even from the trailers, I was like, this is not my thing. I don't know. I'm not really digging this.

I mean, it puts the rest of his career into, like, this weird retrospective criticism for me where I realize, like, everything else he's made has been shrouded in irony.

And he's, like, everything else he's made before this also wasn't like an original, idea and he kind of just you know he makes things that are like oh funny poke fun at itself this is a comedy but also

we're doing you know a lot of reference humor you know we're doing parody and it really just seems like that was that held up his career not to say that like this was like the most poorly shot film ever a lot of it did look bad there was some bad

acting there was some bad effects there was some you know the story was bad like there's a lot of bad this where it's like, dude, go back to comedy maybe or something. I don't know. I'm happy that he tried something different, but this did not work. Sure. Sure. Yeah. It makes me realize like the talent of like all those other people he worked with like Simon Pegg and Nick Frost and Scott Polgram like Chris Evans, you know, all the other actors he got in that, Michael Sarah. Like they really elevate the material. Yeah, like this. It's just like him trying something different. It's I don't know if like Anya Taylor

joy is like as funny as Simon Pegg I don't know if he's like capable of working with that actor the same way they just made like it's just fine I don't even hate the movie it's just like very average even in his other

comedy films like the directing is so important right so I don't want to like understate what he does for those but like whatever he was doing here it just did not work like it did not gel well with his style there were actually some sequences in this film when she's going,

she's walking through the hallway and in a single shot, the camera is like panning into each of the doors as it's moving forward. And you see like, oh, in one door or blah. There was kind of like a shining reference. Someone was getting their dick sucked, I guess. And then it goes to the end of the hall.

And these like swooping camera motions, it didn't fit well with the tone of what the film was going for. And I was just thinking like, man, if this was like, if there was some comedy in this scene, then those swooping fast cameras, camera motions would actually elevate what's happening, right? There's a lot of what he does as a director that really elevates the comedy that he's working with.

He takes films that could be presented on easy mode and he does them on hard mode. And it works out great. But for this film, it's just what the fuck? It had no self-awareness. I don't know what you were going for, dude. It does deflate from the tension of those scenes when it's just like, yeah, all these like amazing camera angles and swooping shots. It doesn't fit his style. It's better to have like a more subtle restrained style like a Sotaburg or like Tarkovsky.

Like that that works much better for something like this. Yeah, I was almost expecting something like that. Yeah. Do you know who the director of photography was? Because I looked it up before. So is a chung-un chung from the handmaid and old boy thirst. Cool. But cinematography doesn't necessarily mean they were responsible for framing every shot.

No, no. or storyboarding. Like cinematographer can just be lighting, really, which I didn't really have much of an issue with. Yeah. Well, I guess my point is I don't see any of the crew really as responsible for what went wrong. I see the story and the writing is the biggest hang up.

The Edgar writing. Is that it then? Does he need to root his stories in comedy first and foremost? It's a crutch, but it works out really well for him. And he's really good at it. He's just. Yeah. Because I thought with Baby Driver, he was going out.

I mean, it was still very eggerite and full of his kind of is. Yeah. It was over the top in comedic, but it was also like, I don't know if I could pinpoint, like, an exact property that it was mirroring. But I think everybody has had the idea while listening to their earbuds throughout the day. Like, oh, there should be a movie where someone does things to the beat while they listen to their ear. Like, I had that thought.

Everybody's had that thought, right? So even again, he's not really working with, like, the most original concepts. And then in this newest film was like the most derivative paint by numbers story You could possibly fucking fart out Whatever this could just be a fluke Perhaps he'll direct the next like Fucking Ariasra movie you know Like perhaps he'll do like a crazy A24 horror thing

I don't think that's gonna happen I think he should go back to comedy You know nothing to be ashamed of You've had a great career and you're a very talented director Yeah Yeah Yeah hot fuzz is perfect I agree

Sean the Dead Scott Polgram I mean yeah This is his first kind of miss for me Yeah Yeah It was a miss from like when I heard about it It was like this is not something I'm looking forward to

Did any of you see the trailers? Yeah I didn't I didn't tell you that it was like it's spoiled too much or something I don't know but I didn't watch it Oh okay I didn't get anything out of trailers I'm just like this is so odd Like this is the guy made Sean the dead

Like what the fuck And then ending with her like on the getting her like fashion stuff. It seems like well, it does seem like there's just less to it like it seems oh, so she got like a happy ending and it's like, what was it what was the point in this? What was it building? There was no point. I have no idea why he made this movie. I don't know what he saw. Yeah.

That was like, oh, I want to communicate this. I want to share this to the world. Like what did you? I'm sorry, what? What was in here that you wanted to do? It was just something different. Like, oh, he just recycled. I can make a different kind of movie.

I can make a movie that's like a horror movie and not a comedy. I can make a movie that's about like a bunch of women. No, it wasn't scary. You know, it was different to have a movie starring all women like that. That was interesting. His first like woman protagonist, which is cool. Yeah, he wrote mostly women characters. Yeah.

Like, yeah, Anya Taylor Joy, the older version of her, the Thomas and McKenzie's character. He's cited a Don't Look Now as an influence, which is a film we've talked about on a previous episode. That's silly. That's a very silly. It's a much better film, don't look now. Yeah. It is a much better film, for sure. Well, because it's in Soho, like, that one's in Venice.

Like, I loved those mirror shots, but those fucking, those ghouls or whatever, just look, they looked like shit, you know? There's some bad looking stuff in this movie. I really didn't like the ending. with the staircase like the CGI staircase they needed a glass they needed something for such like a visually oriented like energetic director like those ghouls they needed something else going on there was so just like mindless zombie their presence was weak it wasn't scary it was fair yeah it just didn't add anything the visuals didn't add anything to the movie like if those shots weren't there like the zombies or the staircase it wouldn't be a different film in my mind it's the same

story. Like, it's just like thrown in there for the sake of it, because they had the money. Yeah, weirdly it was reminding me of like, World's End with like the alien invasion. Yeah, if World's End wasn't in comedy. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah. World's end is watched better than this, I thought. I think that's been working. Yeah, no, I like

World's end because I think the tone's appropriate. Those villains aren't scary as part of the problem I have. You know? Yeah. Go back to Lego Land. Or fuck off back to Lego Land. whatever they say. Yeah, that's the line. It's like,

it's a crush, but it works, it can make something work really well, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it's great. If you're,

it's a medium where you're trying to entertain people, right? Like, you have an original story. Use comedy is like a, a driving force, I guess, to tell it.

Yeah. A lot of great filmmakers do it. Tarantino, fucking a lot of them. It's a corsayzy. Scorsese's movies are usually, really funny they're funny than most like comedies you see right like wolf of Wall Street yeah even like raging ball it's like really funny yeah and it's yeah and

it's yeah we really kind of pointed out but the dramatic elements in his in the Cornetta trilogy work surprisingly well when they do come out so it's not like it's really held him back really yeah unless he wants to just experiment with different types of stories different genres and not have yeah but if he is he really needs to like devote it like he needs to change his style to make it fit that this kind of story much more where it's something more subtle like you want to do a ghost story okay do do do something like the actresses or do something like paranormal activity where it's found footage or like you know embodies some other kind of horror style that doesn't make it feel like shone of the

dead man like something like that it's so like like you were saying like the swooping camera shots and all this stuff it's it's so cinematic It's budding heads with the tension and the horror. Yeah, especially the horror. Yeah, the subtlety is good in horror, I think. And there's nothing subtle. There is nothing subtle about this movie. Not even one thing about it.

Everything about it is like in your face. It's really, it really honestly, if it weren't for, you know, some of the mirror shots, you know, some of the acting, if it weren't for that, This feels like a kids movie It feels like a Like the way that information It's a way that information is presented And like

Its whole approach to like yeah Sexual abuse or whatever It feels like like a teenager Yeah It feels like a fucking Netflix crowd Like it's waiting for them It's so sanitized

You know We talked about Texas Chainsawmasker A few weeks ago Like that is not A sanitized movie When it comes to that subject matter Like it's really scary It's better

in that way, I think, to be more in your face about it. Yeah. Yeah. Like, did it need all the violence at the end with, because I'm trying to think of like what actual gore would, because I think it's an 18 in the UK, which is like one of the highest ratings you can have. And I'm just like the stabbing scene. Yeah.

There's the stabbing scene and it goes crazy that last section with the old lady and I'm showing all the stabbing. It's so silly. Did it need that? Did it really need that like hot fuzz level of like just exploding heads and like, I don't know if it's not really necessarily if it really serves it Oh my God

In my province it's rated PG Really? Yeah, that's interesting 14 a in Alberta Even though it's about that stuff 13 plus in Quebec It's got like the blow job and the It's a short place It's very sexual in nature

And that's fine in Canada I guess Yeah people have blowies This is the province that suggested glory holes For safe sex practice during COVID Did you ever see that There's like a little There's like a government graphic that's like, oh, here's ways to practice safe sex during COVID. And some of them were like masks or like blah, blah, blah, blah.

But one was like, use a glory hole. It's like legitimately posted by our government. It was pretty funny. Yeah. So host rated R here. Definitely a R rated movie here. Yeah, why not? I guess that's why I don't see the point.

It's still rated R. Like, why shy away from it at all? Yeah. fucking CG-faced ghoul people are not scary. So whatever. None of it's interesting. Five out of ten, the most generous five out of ten I could possibly give. Because I liked some of the fucking, I don't know, the mirror shots and some of the acting

wasn't bad. I liked some of the music. But yeah, five out of ten, that's as high as I'm giving it. Feels like I should give it a four bit, whatever. You've dodged a bullet today, Mr. Wright. Yeah. I'm thinking I was too generous with my writing now because I just kind of rated this a three star six out of ten but um right it might have to be a five for a two and a half star do it

um because i really can't justify where it goes and i can't say i was satisfied by where it goes but i just i was really engaged for a certain section the first part of the movie but it's just just not enough i can't i can't defend it beyond a good opening and some some some good direction and some, you know, some energetic choices or whatever. But yeah, yeah, I'm going down the middle, two and a half. If Doom part two is as bad as the second half of this film, will you lower your rating for part one? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Interesting. All right. What do you think, Ralph? Yeah, we'll have to see. I'm like right with you. Five.

Five's all around. I guess so. It might go down, maybe go up. But I doubt it, but it's just like a really dull movie. It's a forgettable, nothing movie. Yeah. I keep thinking with these other movies, there's so many little nuggets for people who are paying attention.

Like little nuggies that like, it's like he gave up. It's like, you gave up with this one. It is in this movie. There's like a line where the older lady mentions, like, oh, the smell will rise at a certain time of the day where I guess that's foreshadow. the bodies under the ground or whatever it's just not doesn't do it it doesn't tickle the same

yeah and i don't want to see it inserted that in there for sure i feel like watching it again would enhance it in fact it would probably do the opposite because without that twist and knowing that twist is coming i mean i'll end up seeing it again um so ho yeah yeah because you know i have some friends who want to see it oh because they like i'd go right i'll watch it with them yeah they're going to be disappointed because it's not funny at all It's trying to be sometimes, but it's, yeah, it's mostly like, mostly cringe and... Mostly cringe. It is mostly just like really, eh.

Mostly cringe. Whatever. That's the perfect quote for the DVD. Yeah, because there was someone in my audience who was like, he was laughing a lot. Even when it was trying to be a horror movie, like, he was still laughing as if it was, like, jokes. And I was like, what's going on? Expected. Yeah, yeah.

I laughed. accidentally when the old woman stabbed in the neck. I laughed accident. There's not enough for that stuff, though. They need to be way more self-aware, horror shit like that. Like, malignant. Malignant was so self-aware, I felt much more so than this was. Certainly in the second half, it's very self-aware.

Yeah, especially in the second half. Yeah. This was just not interesting. Even if it was self-aware, like, where's the, where's the gore? Where's the beef? Malignant has that consistent tone. It doesn't like betray itself. Uh-huh, right.

I don't know if I would call it. It isn't like embarrassed of what it is. Anyway. Malignant just is what it is. Gojira. All right, it's time to talk about the recommendation from... Recommendation for episode 99. Yes.

Gojira is Godzilla. That's what it means a Japanese. Yeah, that's why I was saying it. It was on HBO Max. That's how I watched. Oh. Yeah, 1954, right?

That's the one we watched. We didn't watch, um... Sorry, I watched the Roland Emmerich version. What's the Roland Emmerich one? The Roland Emmerich one? What's,

let's the other one I'm thinking of. I think of it's Godzilla King of the Monsters. Yeah. That's like, it's basically the same movie. There's the Garthethebless one from like 2014. Yeah. I don't know if I would call it director's cut.

But there's like another version of this Godzilla movie. But we all watch the 1954. for the criterion one, the one you get a criterion of, yeah. I just watched on the public domain. Oh. That's where it is. Yeah. Yeah, that's where I found it.

Yeah, you'd probably find it like that. That version, just to say the difference, like, it has, like, this, like, American point of view character instead. Oh. So it's, like, the same movie except there's, like, a white guy, basically. Oh, yeah. I heard about that. Oh, that's a lot.

Like an Americanized version or something. Yeah. It's like the version they released for Americans. That's so funny. They're racist. Oh, I hate these Japanese people. I won't watch a movie with them. I don't know how I can relate to someone that's not the same skin color as me.

That's basically what the people back then thought. Oh, man. So they have like this white guy who's the point of view characters like explaining the point of the movie. Yeah. But that's not the one we watched. We watched the 1954 one. Just to be clear.

And that one is like a, yes. Japanese film takes place in Japan, all Japanese characters, and it just follows them as they're attacked by a giant monster named Godzilla, and that's the plot. It's pretty straightforward.

I think we all know what it is. I think it's great. It's a very dark tone for like a monster movie at that period. It's definitely much darker than like the sequels are later on, which we can talk about a little bit.

I was planning on, like, watching all of them. But there's a point I just stopped because they're really bad. I figured you guys weren't going to watch all them either. There's a ton. There's just so many of them. Yeah, there are different eras. And, yeah, it's not worth watching all of them because I think a lot of them are pretty bad. Not this first one.

I like the first Godzilla. But, you know, by time you get to like Son of Godzilla. So how many have you seen? This gets, like, really. I honestly don't even know. Is there like a chronology? Son of Godzilla. Yeah, there is.

And there's like the four eras of Godzilla. That's what I was going to say. There's the Shoa era, the Heisei era, the Millennium Era, and then the Raywa. The Ray William Johnson. Yeah, I guess you can see it that way too. And there's like 32 films. Yeah. Oh, cool.

That's a lot. That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. Including these new ones? like Dingle versus Kong or is this Dingle? I'm gonna check for you. Yeah, when did they rename Godzilla to Dingle? No, it's not even counting

it's counting like Shin Godzilla. So just the Japanese ones then? Okay. Oh, but it is counting like these stupid animated ones though. I guess they consider those canon. Because they're like big Kaiju fans aren't there? Yeah. People that's their thing. Yeah. Like Kaiji movies. Uh-huh. Yeah, I've listened to a few like podcasts

with them. Yeah, like some people are just like, man, it's like this encyclopedic knowledge of all these movies whereas I've never been that into it I like Godzilla in the original one I like Shin Godzilla yeah once it just becomes like a giant ape fighting a giant lizard I'd kind of check out yeah I've seen those like kick Kong versus Godzilla that's pretty bad great use of like I guess face paints like they paint their faces to be like the native Americans or whatever. It's really insensitive, I guess.

Spoilers. But you can get some of that and kick con Godzilla. Spoiler part. Godzilla dies at the end. What do they say in the next movie? Do they ever explain that? That's what I'm curious about the chronology. Is there a second Godzilla in the second movie?

They just say he had babies. Oh, yeah, because I did watch the one after. I think they just bring them back to life or something. Really? From a skeleton. Yeah. They just bring them back. Okay.

It's about as basic as that. Isn't there like a line at the end where they say like it could happen again? No, I've seen the movie. It's Godzilla strikes again. I just, Godzilla raids again. I'm sorry. I just honestly could tell you because that one is like so forgettable.

It's like so much worse than the first Godzilla. And he fights like some other fucking monster in it that no one cares about. You know, it's not like one of the good monsters. It's not like Mecca Godzilla or Mothra. Do they use the same theme song as the movies keep going? Like, dun, oh, fuck, yeah.

They use that Dino. shit. It's great. The theme song. Man. I like it. But some French asshole named Leo Carax, or however you pronounce it, keeps using it in his movies,

and it's kind of ruined for me because his movies are really bad. Oh, okay. Yeah. You use the Godzilla theme. Yeah. It's associated with, like, some of the most cringe moments in cinema history for me now, and it's very sad. Otherwise, it's good. So it hasn't been, it has been.

been tainted for me yeah oh yeah I mean these movies I bet use them in a campy way as well not so much this movie I thought this movie used it well the first Godzilla 1954 and this one isn't about Godzilla fighting monsters at all I think that's like one of the most important things to note about it it's about Godzilla just fights human beings basically he just kills the government and destroys yeah he's versing the army of the military, the government. And yeah, that's mainly what it's about. And it's a dark movie.

It's not supposed to be fun, the destruction. Like, a family gets killed within, like, the first 20 minutes, 15 minutes of the movie. Yeah. And this is shots of like a family, like, we're going to see daddy soon or whatever. Like, as a mom is holding her children and they're about to die. Like, this is like a dark film. It's clearly not. It's really scary in the 50s, I would have.

Oh, yeah, that's another thing I was thinking about. It's catering to the whole paranoia if you had atom bomb. I don't even know paranoia. It's an anti-war movie. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, because that's what's, it's like baked into the story, isn't it? It's like the post-war. Yeah.

Bombing, like the. Mm-hmm, that's all the point. Yeah. That causes it all to happen. It is a symbolic kind of film. They mention hydrogen bombs a bunch. There's like the woman on the train who's like, I just escaped Nagasaki and now this.

You know, so it's very clearly aware that this is supposed to, you know, Godzilla has radioactive power as, you know, it's all there. He comes from a, he comes from a nuclear test.

Hydrogen bomb. That's how he was made. Yeah. Godzilla represents the atom bomb and he represents the destruction of like Hiroshima and Nagasaki during World War II. And he represents like the fear of something like that happening again. Like that as well You know, because he could always come back

Destruction. There's like the whole plot line with like the scientist also who's like he's kind of having like an Oppenheimer kind of arc Where he's oxygen destroyer Yeah, the oxygen destroyer which they're going to use to destroy Godzilla But he doesn't want to use it And he doesn't want to give it to the government Because you know once he lets it out like the cat's out of the bag

It could be used as a weapon like for the rest of time And he thinks it's too dangerous You know it's definitely going for like the atom bomb like that kind of thing. Yeah. You know, it's like every part of this movie. Yeah, it's so intentional. That's what it's about.

It comes from a very real place, which is nice. Yeah. When I'm watching a film like this with very dated effects for the most part, so there are some parts that look really cool, other parts that don't. Myself as a viewer, you know, you're watching certain parts. You're like, okay, that's a dude in a suit. And some shots, it works really well. And then it's like, ah, they cut back.

And then his tail hit the water. And it's like, ah, that's the wrong speed or like the weight. splashing and it's like ah it ruins it a little or like there's some really great miniatures but then the helicopter as it's rolling over looks like shit like I can't deny that it does I'm not like fully sucked into the things that are happening and again this is another older film where it's more about like oh this is what it meant for people in the time periods sort of thing and it's more of like an educational experience rather than like an actual movie experience for me yeah

yeah so yeah I mean like there's plenty of examples of this kind of thing where I'm thinking, like, damn, to be a person in the 50s watching this film in Japan, just imagining them in a theater, it's so much easier to be sucked into something and be able to take what you're seeing literally if you have no idea what's going into it practically or what the methodology is for like the special effects being used. A lot of what they're doing in that film is just now common knowledge for people. So we're never going to be able to have that same experience again. But yeah, the further back you go in time, like the less aware, the average audience member would be of, like, the filmmaking process or other special effects. So, you know, it's nice to just think about what it must have been like for those people and just how epic it would have been, you know.

Yeah. Kind of, yeah. It's a reflection of the film industry at the time in Japan and what they were capable of, the technology they were capable of. Yeah. Although, you know, there is a part of me also. So this is what winds up happening every time I'm watching older films, is I wind up comparing them to like other older films. And so an unavoidable comparison for Godzilla is obviously King Kong.

And so that was like 20 years earlier. Yeah. King Kong is American to be fair. Yeah. Yeah, different industry. This is Japan after World War II. Yeah. Yeah, very good point.

Yeah, but even like ignore the special effects for a bit, but like what's happening like narratively and tonally, I'm so much more behind King Kong than I am Godzilla. Godzilla is not a bad movie for sure me as well Godzilla is just like such a fucking trip like I yeah, I'll put that movie on as many times you know like that that's a great right like you said it's 20 years before basically and yeah like the the stop motion on King Kong is great but I like I like the effects in Godzilla their reflection of what Japan was basically capable of at the time yeah that's a good way to put it and it also has a of like famous Japanese actors who were there like a guy he's in a few

Kurosawa movies Takashi Shumura that's his name he's in Ikaru he's in you know seven samurai which came out the same year as Godzilla you know so there's clearly like some overlap there like he's a big actor like you said it's most comparable to King Kong it's and King Kong is a better movie just the effects are a little more unique and memorable than like a guy in a rubber suit Yeah. I saw it referenced as suitmation. Have you seen this before?

Suit nation. Suit nation. Mation. As in, I guess, like, animation, but with a suit? Weird name. I could see why it didn't catch on that. Suitmation. Soup nation.

Yeah, the soup nation. You know what this movie did better than King Kong, though? It's sound design. That's what I really loved about this movie. That was probably my favorite part about Godzilla is the sound design. Except the music. Except Godzilla's team Yeah and not just the theme

But like the Like really low Orchestra drums that are almost supposed to mimic like Stomping foot sounds As part of like the Yeah definitely But like the noise for Godzilla

Like I don't know what they did Did you ever look up like how they got that noise Because they wound up reusing that Even they still use that today Or like derivative versions of that It's like it's an amazing Unique sound to it Yeah Godzilla's roar is great

throughout the film there's like a lot of really great sound design I think that that's the best part of it in my opinion yeah do we know how Godzilla how they recorded that should I look it up yeah I did read it but I couldn't quote it off top of my head right now it's something on strings like being like scraped across it's yeah his war yeah it's like yeah it's like yeah it's something like yeah it's something like that it was actually a double base using a leather glove coated in pine tar resin to create friction yeah let's see yeah this is talking about the 1954 version wow that's really cool that's dope that is really cool yeah the sound is great yeah it says a lot they're still using it like he nailed it

54 yeah well I mean like they're not just reusing the same sound bite like other people in the new Godzilla movies are essentially having to recreate it which is like another challenge in of itself when it's already just like

so iconic and memorable and unique and sure Yeah, the American ones and some of the newer Godzilla films They do the CGI The effects on Godzilla are a bit more believable You know Like Godzilla looks much better

In King of the Monsters or whatever The newest ones My favorite look of Godzilla And like his scale Shin Godzilla In terms of like Yeah, those were really inspired one Because they used like

A practical suit also Yeah, it looked really far enough It looks good That was something really weird The eyes and the Yeah It was like burn it to my memory, you know In all of the new ones, I think he looks good

Yeah, at this point, audiences expect like a better, like, effect, so like Godzilla's usually at a scale now, like it looks great. Yeah, like, I think back to like son of Godzilla, like it looks terrible. It looks so fucking bad. Like by today's standards, no one

would watch that. Never seen it. Yeah, good. You don't need to. I mean, I guess you could if you want like maybe a good movie to watch with the dad's. on Father's Day son of Godzilla That's funny

What else is I to say about this movie This is a Obviously huge movie in America Which is you know Interesting because it's a Japanese film But these these took off in America Because I guess people like the concept They like monsters fighting

And they like monsters destroying buildings And whatever the fuck Stopping around It's crazy because I mean just consider what this movie's about and like you know after world war two and after like america leaves the occupation of japan or whatever and like just like 10 years 20 years before like japan had an emperor like they had this like they believed like there was like a divine being like ruling like over them like

it's crazy and now just like now like the japanese film industries like come so far and they're releasing like this anti-war movie about like the atom bomb in america and like America fucking eats it up. Like we fucking love it. Even though that's like overtly what the movie's about. It's like a very anti-war movie. It's about the suffering like, you know, Hiroshima and Nagasaki and that shit. Yeah.

And it's crazy how it took off here, you know? I think that's a really strong part of this movie. It showed like American audiences like the other side of the coin. And it showed them just like how far the Japanese military had come since. World War II and like the government and all of those aspects of their society like since World War II like showing it in a film and then showing that film in America like that was huge all of that was huge there's some really I really enjoyed the the typhoon scene near the beginning I thought there there was some like really raw emotion and the performances there great lighting

sure obviously great sound design again there are other parts of the movie I was not huge on the acting. Emiko was not good. Her reaction to the fish tank thing was like kind of cringe. Just throwing that out there. It had some good female characters in there. It had some like strong women characters. I thought that was a good part of the film. I don't know if on a personal level I could call any of them strong characters. I related to them about as much as I did as like characters from Dune in the sense that I wasn't really watching for them. you know i think that's intentional i think it's of i think it's intentionally a very like cold distant film i think the best godzilla movies that come after this like try to mimic this tone

really like the the most recent one the 2017 one or shin godzilla they're like very uh yeah they're like contagion also they're like that kind of tone yeah i need the commentary in there once once you remove the you know the obvious commentary and it is becomes more about the fighting it's going to be a bit much. Yeah. I think the black and white helps too with like the realism, making the images a bit more believable. Like I'm a little more invested in it because of that,

the black and white, which is not something that some of the sequels have. I don't really resonate with this movie particularly. But I've always had a soft spot for it. I used to watch this when I was quite young. Like my nan got like a copy of it with some newspaper or something and just gave it to me. And I remember, like, being confused why the first, like, 10 minutes is, like, just text,

not knowing about, like, their credits and why they're put there. And I don't fond memories of it. But, yeah, I appreciate it, I guess, more than, come on, it's time to sit down and watch the original Godzilla again. I do find it more educational and illuminating in terms of, yeah. Yeah, it's made in 1954. It's got the suitmation, the first movie of suitmation and everything. I like that. And I was surprised by how good.

with the, there's kind of an argument scene, a dinner table argument where I found the conflict to be like, oh, this is actually like a, yeah, the core conflict is really strong. And what people are arguing about here is like, yeah, this is surprisingly grounded for how silly the big lizard man in a suit is. And yeah, yeah, I just connect with that side of it. Yeah, they show the bureaucracy. Everyone trying to deal with like, this is a monster. how do we deal with this thing?

How does the military deal with it? It's very practical. I like those scenes. They're going through like all the people who died, right? Like it's some kind of Senate hearing. And they're like, well, how many livestock did you lose? Oh yeah, we lost five sheep, three cows. I think that was intentional.

Yeah, I think for sure that's intentional. Yeah, I agree. It's something that I have a lot of respect for. it is more of like an educational experience for me than it is an entertainment one. There's some parts that I'm really into it, as I've said, you know, some sequences, some moments. But overall, I would say like story-wise it's really basic. I mean, again, without the subtext as like an actual narrative. Yeah.

Not hugely connected to the characters. But then you see Godzilla destroy buildings. But I don't. I see a guy in a suit lock around. I'm just saying. You know? Yeah. I don't see Godzilla destroy buildings.

I see a dude in a suit. Especially when it's more skilled towards the beginning. In the context of the movie. The footprints by the sea and everything and the buildup is all good. But that's the hook. Like when you're a kid, that's the stuff at least I love. And then when you see it again and you look into it, you're like, yeah, all this history, all this context of like I see why Godzilla is the icon he is. Why Toho marketed this character because it's, you know, it's important and it's cool.

And it's like everything you want like to market in a, in a. film series. Like, it's great. We got a film series centered around like this monster. Like,

you know, there's like 30 movies about this fucking like guy in a rubber suit. It's not like his character that's like got any, you know,

distinct kind of personality or played by some kind of actor. It's not like James Bond, you know. Yeah. I like the look of Godzilla in this movie too. He always looks different.

I really like the look of him in this movie. He looks kind of deformed and freaky. Like you're, Yeah, there is something scary about it. Yeah. There is one shot where it looks a bit goofy, but same thing happened in King Kong, so whatever.

Fiki looks goofy here in some of the sequels he looks goofy. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's hard to suspend your disbelief. Like, I never believed, like, there was actually, like, a monster on screen. It's a guy in a suit, but I don't know. Something about that tone. It depends on the shot for me. Yeah.

Something about that tone and that presentation of the movie. It gives it a certain quality. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, this is a movie that stands out. I see why people love it almost. Yeah, why it's revered like King Kong is and why they met up and how to fight. It's an important movie. It is the Japanese King Kong.

Yeah, King Kong is like the American monster. Yeah. It's a shame I can't get behind the sequels. Yeah, but I just, yeah, that's when it gets too goofy for me. Like we said, this movie, it has history. It has context. It's like educational. It's dark.

Like the destruction scenes are fantastic. Like I think they're really great in this movie. Yeah, they're so long. Like, they really focus on them. Yeah. For sure. This is a good one. This is a good movie.

I would recommend it. What would you guys, do you want to get into ratings? I don't know if you have anything else to say. Yeah. So let's get into ratings. You guys go first. Yeah, I'm kind of torn on what to rate it, to be honest,

because, yeah. Yeah, I do appreciate it more than just, sit down and watch it. So I think this is a, like a three and a half star for me. I think Shin Godzilla is kind of like the modernized take on this. Mm-hmm. I'd recommend watching like both. That's one of the better ones, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I got my issues with that film too. Yeah, yeah. The monster scenes are a bit more impactful, I guess, yeah. Yeah, by no means is it perfect. But as far as continuing on that sort of, the idea, the heart of the original movie. I appreciate that side of the storytelling as opposed

to, you know, and as far as this one being released right after World War II and after all that shit, like I said. Yeah, the context. Like that was cool. Yeah. And it took off in America. Like, Japan made this and then they released it in America. Like, that other version

sucks, but this one's great. And this is the one that ultimately stood the test of time. Not that really bad one. Yeah. Criterion didn't release that one. Oh. Yeah. I thought they released a big package.

I thought they was supposed to have like all of them. I mean, they might have released it as like a bonus feature. I thought they had a whole box set of Godzilla. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't believe they released this one. I thought it said the Toho collection or something maybe. There must be. There's so many Kaiji fans out there.

Yeah, the Shoah era is a box set. The Shoah era films 1954 to 1975 is the criterion box set. So I wonder what's in it. Uh-huh. I don't think they have the 1956 one. Never know. Should buy it. Yeah, a movie that I appreciate having seen.

Good for cinema history. Kind of basic for my entertainment value. Giving it a six out of ten. Yeah. It's a basic, but it's a great allegory. I love it. I think it's closer to a nine, but I think I'd give it like an eight out of ten.

If I had to rate it. Yeah, it's a good one. it's a great horror movie unlike Soho Yeah, Godzilla It's a fun character Yeah Godzilla's both a fun character

And a very menacing character He's a big boy All right, question time Okay, let's do some questions From the Southern cast community Head it over to the subreddit Where there'll be a suggestion thread But you can ask us whatever you like

JVass 685 asks one that a small part of my brain is telling me we've asked before, but I can't remember what the answers were if we did. So what are the worst documentaries that you've ever seen? You can choose based on very flawed information, awful presentation, or both. Worst documentaries? Yeah, I've seen one on. Yeah, I've seen some bad ones.

Yeah, what's a documentary that like a bad one that stands out in your mind? Room 237. You Can't Kill Meme. That's a terrible title. You can't kill meme. That's curious to me. That's why I watched it. It was, uh,

this, just watch my Fantasia festival video because I, I don't want to get it. I, it doesn't deserve to be explained right now. Okay. I'm sorry. Oh yeah, I just,

I just searched it. Pemomatic magic, okay? Yeah. It's not good. Um, yeah, let's, those,

those are two that jump out to my mind, the strongest bit. What the Health stands out to me. Have you seen that one? That sounds so familiar. I think it was like a Netflix documentary about veganism and all this. Just super disingenuous. Yeah, I didn't watch it.

It's on my watch list, though. Yeah, that's not. From the creators of Cowspiracy. It scared the emojis at me. Did you see Cowspiracy? Yeah. It scared the emojis at me. Oh, and he produced...

It's an interesting question because, like, I do... You kind of have to go out your way to, like, I don't know, unless you're watching tons and tons of documentaries. But I feel like I... When I'm going out my way to go for a documentary is what I know is on a subject

that's interesting or explore well or it's been recommended, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Documentaries are, like, pretty hard to fuck up if you're just, like, trying to be honest about what you're presenting, and you're not, like, completely incompetent.

Yeah, because if you look up, like, lists of, like, the worst documentaries, it is just dishonesty and bad faith or badly misrepresented information. Just look up ghost documentaries or Bigfoot documentaries. You'd probably find bad ones. Or, like, alien, alien documentaries, like those UFO-siding documentaries. Have you seen that vaxed documentary from 2016? That sounds funny. From cover up to catastrophe.

Yeah. I haven't. I'll add it to my watch list. Sounds great. Yeah. Some good stuff. Oh, I did see what the bleep do we know when I was younger. That one's pretty bad.

It's like one of those like spiritual nonsense movies where they're like, yo, if you just like think something, it's true. There's another one called The Secret that says that. It's based off of a book two and it's like a bestseller. But yeah, essentially they're like, Um, if you just like, if you think something really hard enough, it'll happen. So the starving kids in Africa, they're just not thinking hard enough about what they want. They don't address it in that way.

I'm just saying one of the obvious flaws about what they're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Just replace it with prayer. You got a different movie. Okay. Let's do this one from Cole Shilo Britt. If you had the opportunity to write a script for a popular horror franchise, which one would you choose and why?

Popular horror franchise Come on Adam you got it Why would you want to do that I could like I don't know Some nightmare in Elm Street stuff could be fun Fucking saw You know what

Saw Yeah yeah I would have said soar But I figured that would be your one Yeah Yeah I could save that franchise right now Fucking hit me up lines gate I'm not kidding

Yeah Give people what they want Yeah start the change Dot org petition Yeah You get people to sign It gets Saddonicost fan sign in it Um I would say

I don't know. I think the gimmick of Final Destination is like there's some comedy potential that you could do some like funny stuff with that that sort of yeah like funny horror. Yeah. Because I can't remember like

I haven't really seen the Final Destination movie since I was a teenager. Why did that peter out? Was there like a particularly bad one ended on or something? They're all pretty bad. I mean they were getting pretty bad by the end of it. Yeah. They all made. money, I think.

I'm just wondering why they stopped making them. They got lazy. They're still making saw movies. I don't think they were as profitable as like some of the cheaper ones, like paranormal activity. So, I'm really stopped for that reason. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Make a sequel?

I can make an it follows sequel. Do it. An it follows sequel. Yeah, go for it. Yeah, Mercer Samma has this one. How often do you guys go to the cinema alone? Do you think it's better watching movies by yourself or with friends? I usually bring a friend

I value both But yeah I don't need to If a friend's busy I'm not gonna be like oh I'm not gonna see it I'm just gonna watch the movie Yeah Yeah Sometimes I go by myself

It's fine They're both fun They're both fun Yeah It's not my friends talking during the movie It's usually like some fucking asshole In the theater Yeah

Yeah yeah Yeah true Easy What about this one from GGGG 375 Do you think there will ever be an end To the endless barrage Of reboots, remakes and sequels I feel like every studio movie is an existing intellectual property.

This year we have a new Halloween, Matrix, Space Jam, Sopranos, prequel, etc. Are studio films an IP synonymous? Will studios ever strive to be more original? I feel like the existing state of movies is so depressing since the only time new, interesting movies seem to get produced are for streaming. And indie films get such small distribution and never get talked about, like big studio films are, even though they're usually better thoughts? There's two exceptions.

there's animation, so kids movies, and then there's like A24 films, which are not as big blockbusters as, you know, obviously like Marvel or anything, but they are representing somewhat of a shift in terms of what audience members are willing to pay for. And it is, I guess, partially how they market them, which is a bit dishonestly,

and they pretend as if it's something that people have seen before when it's not. So, yeah, the answer to that question is, it will happen if we reward studios in that way, we tell people this is what we want by buying tickets to original properties and not buying tickets to reboots and remakes then it'll happen they'll follow where the money is it's up to us really so yeah but yeah we've already kind of set the die with the kind of movies we like and go to see although the response to Eternals has been quite um uplifting to me in terms of this I'm I thought

they were like untouchable like but here we are they're I don't know they might still make money Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, true. I don't know about the money, so. I think people are kind of jaded. They kind of worn out with the marvel shit. What I mean, like culturally, like, is it the crack stuff?

How much Marvel can you take? How many fucking movies? Well, so I'm just thinking about, like, when I was in the cinema today, like, what played before last night in Soho, it's like a resident evil movie. There's like a new resident evil movie coming out. Yeah. It's like, fucking eternal. It's fucking a new stream. Yeah.

Yeah. the Hollywood stuff, I guess because they just inherently require such big investments to get made and they have these fucking ridiculous budgets. Everyone's just shitting themselves in terms of like the risk reward factor.

The only risk they're willing to invest in is like Christopher Nolan or proven entities. Yeah, barely even feel no. After 49 was considered not like a financial success. Yeah, they had no faith in him. Yeah, we're not even going to green light your second part of your movie.

Yeah. Right. Yeah, they fucked up with that. Really. Wow. It's risky. It's like you said. You need a safe investment.

Just do the same shit like you did before. And that's all you're going to do. But like I think you said before Alex, like there's only, you can only do that for so long. Like you're going to run out of things to remake before you're just remaking remakes. Yeah, we'll just be perpetually stuck in the 80s. We'll never progress. Yeah, like we're stuck in the 80s. Like we're still we're still making it and Halloween and like all this shit that we need to leave it behind and do something new.

Yeah. You know, that's why I like Dune or like the French dispatch. At least it's something different. At least it is a Marvel again. And yeah, like I hate seeing that Eternals trailer. It's before every fucking movie. It's the same joke. It's that IKEA joke just fucking over and over.

Like enough. Yeah, a long fucking. It's like they didn't even make a new trailer. Oh, dear. Cool. Okay, let's do this one from a Taco Master 012. Greetings, boys. How often do you clean your screens, TV monitor,

and what do you use, dust or wipe, spray of any sort? Do you guys clean your TV? If I notice dust and I notice things on it, then I'll clean it. If I don't notice anything, then I won't. I hate dust. I hate dust. I hate when it builds. It gets everywhere.

I've actually got this really good, like, cleaner. It's like spray stuff. Is it just compressed air or is it like a... No, no, it's actual... I'm holding it on my hand right now. It's called Screen Mom. M-O-M-M-M-M-E. Screen-M-M-A. Yeah, which is weird for it being like in the UK

because I can spell mum that way. Yeah, it's like a natural screen cleaner. It does a sick job if you wipe them with the microfiber cloth. It makes it look brown here. Yeah, I have one of, I have a bunch of those microfiber... It's not sponsored, by the way. Yeah. Get a sponsor.

Been a sponsor? Yeah. I think. Kind of a screen mom. Give us your cash. Yeah, I clean them pretty often. I use, like, the micro fiber. Sometimes, like, spray windex on a cloth and, like, use that.

I think that works fine on a TV. Yeah. Yeah. And that's it. I have, like, the can of pressurized air, but I don't really use that for screens. But you can. Would you spray that on a TV? The air?

No, probably not. I use that for, like, my keyboard. Yeah. I use it for, like, for, like, like my PC fans. Yeah. But I guess you could. There's like dust on your screen.

I hate dust. Fuck. All right, I guess that about does it for questions. Thanks for your questions. Thanks. So we, the movie for next time, there's two polls and I have the results of one poll in front of me right now. Ralph, I'm going to need you to log into the Patreon to see the results of the other poll.

Yeah, sure. Okay. I'll wait for you to do that. did a poll. So we're going to watch two different movies. And we're doing it based on the results as of right now. The results are in. That's the, duh.

The number one movie on Patreon. 22% of the vote is possession, 1981. All right. We'll be watching that. And then on the straw poll, second film we will also be watching for next episode. SpongeBob the movie, 2004. It's happening. It's at the top with.

634 votes 12% For the patron poll That was the runner up Yeah It would have been the Coronado trilogy Otherwise but I'm actually relieved I might have actually vetoed it if it was the

Coronado trilogy because I don't want to watch four fucking movies for them You know And we're going to recommend that at some point anyway That seems like a waste of a A recommendation so I'm glad SpongeBob pulled through I'll probably recommend Eternal Sunshine at some point anyway That was third place here

Yeah let me see here We should do this again But like the second runner-up was SpongeBob movie and Coronado trilogy. Yeah, they both had 17% exactly. That's funny. That's crazy. And then, yeah, Eternal Sunshine had 5%. So that was like the runner-up.

Vengeance trilogy? What the fuck is that? That's old boy, lady vengeance, sympathy for Mr. Vengeance, the Chanwick Park. Okay. I would like to see Three Colors trilogy at some point. So yeah, I mean, like, all the stuff on here, stuff I want to see anyway or wouldn't mind talking about. Yeah, there are lots of good trilogy recommendations. I was convinced that to boldly flee would win, but that didn't happen.

I think the only one of us that hasn't seen it. Yeah. I've never made it through the whole thing. So that would be torture for another time. Just watch my video on it. Yeah, yeah. Don't fucking torture yourself for that shit. Yeah, exactly.

All right. And so next episode, instead of releasing it normal for the 100th, and we'll see, I don't know if this will happen more than one time. We're going to be doing a live stream on Monday the 22nd of November. We will be streaming live to the Sardonicast YouTube channel. More details to come. We might do it in a way where we answer super chat questions, or we might prioritize with some questions from our patrons.

maybe we'll I don't know we'll figure it out we'll post some stuff on the Reddit and some tweets and whatnot about exactly what we're doing but the plan is to do a live unedited

100th episode stream of Sardonicast on Monday November 22nd and it will probably be I don't know let's assume maybe noon Pacific time or something like that I don't know yet follow the Twitter follow the sub

follow the Facebook and if you want to know what time we're going to be doing it then we'll keep you posted there we just haven't decided yet there's some other factors going into what time it will be but that's the plan yeah thank you everybody episode 100 very exciting hundred yeah cool yeah boy all right oh yeah three digits that's we've made it to the third digit yeah that's crazy for hardcore people you're gonna be in three digits for a while oh my God. Yeah, wait.

So what's the math here? How many years have we been doing this? I think we'll be dead before four digits. Yeah, probably will. We'd have to record much more. Yeah, we have to do one much more often. Why don't we just skip some numbers? That's funny.

Fuck the 500s. All right, thanks for listening to everybody. That's our poll. Yeah, thanks for participating. Bye-bye.