Saturn Returns with Caggie - 1.4 Healing our relationship with food, with Rhiannon Lambert

Episode Date: April 20, 2020

Rhiannon Lambert, founder of the Rhitrition nutrition clinic and author of Re-Nourish, talks to Caggie about diet culture in a digital age and what happens when wellness is taken too far. They share their own personal stories and struggles around body image growing up. They explore the connection between food and mood, how nutrition affects our mental health and how we can all heal our relationship to food. --- Follow or subscribe to "Saturn Returns" for future episodes, where we explore the transformative impact of Saturn's return with inspiring guests and thought-provoking discussions. Follow Caggie Dunlop on Instagram to stay updated on her personal journey and you can find Saturn Returns on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.  Order the Saturn Returns Book. Join our community newsletter here.  Find all things Saturn Returns, offerings and more here.

Hello everyone and welcome to Saturn Returns with me, Kagi Dunlop. This is a new podcast that aims to bring clarity during transitional times where there can be confusion and doubt. If you don't eat the right things, of course you're not going to be able to face daily activities in the same way. And that was really apparent to me, not knowing the science at the time until I went to study it. That that was causing it. Yeah, I didn't need the pills. They did nothing for me. In today's episode, we have Rhiannon Lambert, who is a registered nutritionist specializing in weight management, disordered eating, pre and postnatal nutrition and sports nutrition. She is founder of leading Harley Street Clinic Nutrition and best-selling author of Renourish and host of the Food for

Thought podcast. In this episode we talk about food and mood, how we use food in our lives and how it's connected to our mental health. Nutrition was something I really wanted to discuss on this podcast because of how it connects to your Saturn return. Because Saturn can encourage you to let go of things and behaviors that are no longer serving you. Over our lives our relationship to food and our bodies can become very complicated. We pick up on healthy habits and even use food as a coping mechanism. Food can be very intimately involved in how we deal with any sort of change. It can be how we assert control in difficult times when we feel like we have none,

or the pervasive belief that perhaps by changing how we look and what we weigh, we can somehow change who we are. During your Saturn returns, you will be called to address things in your life that are incredibly uncomfortable. Facing up to one's relationship with food can unearth some painful things below the surface, and it is my own personal advice that you consider seeking professional help along this journey. that you consider seeking professional help along this journey. Rhi contacted me just under two years ago and she had read an interview in a magazine and reached out offering her support nutritionally. We met and had a very open and honest chat.

She made me do some exercises like a timeline that showed during my life the connection between food and diet and what was going on in my life at the time. And it showed this constant unbalanced pattern which I mean the whole conversation was very confrontational and I don't think it's a coincidence that that happened during my Saturn return because it was something I clearly needed to address. I had never talked to a professional about this sort of thing and I definitely have never talked about it publicly I always maintained

that I had it under control but she opened my eyes with her gentle manner to the fact that perhaps I didn't because she is so experienced educated on the subject I felt immediately at ease and you will hear in this episode that it really put me on a path to address things about my own relationship to my body and food. Something that I am so pleased that I did. I do feel a little vulnerable and exposed in sharing this but if I felt this way I hope that it might help someone who is listening who has felt the same. So I really hope you enjoy this episode and learn something from it. hope you enjoy this episode and learn something from it. Welcome, or rather, I'm in your flat today. Yeah, no, thank you for coming to me.

So Rhiannon, you and I have known each other for two years? Yeah. Because when we met, I remember we went quite in depth, didn't we? Yeah. So we had a pretty full on, I would say, few hours of talking about your life, Kagi. Yeah. Which actually, I think nutrition and food, it's obviously such a big subject for everybody. I think specifically women, I would say, are more affected by it because there is so much importance put on our bodies and what we look like and

also I think that and I've talked about this before when we go through puberty our bodies change dramatically and I think some people consciously or otherwise feel like perhaps their body is turned on them. Up until the age of about 15, 16, 17, I was teeny, teeny tiny little thing. Yes. When I met Kagi, just to let you all know, we did something called a timeline exercise, which I do with a lot of clients in clinic. And we went through your whole life

and it's very interesting to look at relationships with food and how you view your body at that point and you wow this is making me feel so uncomfortable already this is your podcast so you go as far as you want but yes you you I remember quite vividly that time period and the amount of changes you went through, especially with your mental health as well. There was a lot for you to handle. Yeah, because when I was 15, my parents got divorced. And I think that had a huge effect on my relationship with food in a strange way because I think when my nest so to speak felt like it sort of caved in I looked for comfort in other things and through the environment that I was in food was given to me as a form of love so I developed this association that like food was comfort and I think also you know tie that in with the fact

that my body then dramatically changed so not only was I eating more than I should because until I'm just going to bear it all out because the fact when my family broke up, the sort of new reparent dynamic was that they would feed me. Which is actually very common. Really? Yeah, you hear it a lot. It's an easier way to show love for some people. I think there's different ways of showing you care. Some people are affectionate.

They may show physical things. They may want to do a task or it's verbal. They'll use language. But in your case, in this instance, it was let's create a safer environment again. Let's try and let's just keep feeding Kagi. Yeah, which has consequences. And consequences that have stayed a very long time. And then, you know, you tie that in with going through puberty and then your

body changing and suddenly like I put on weight for the first time and I felt like my body was against me and then I suddenly developed this thing with well I can actually control this this is something in my life I can control and then I lost a huge amount of weight in my last year of school and it was quite it was quite dramatic yeah we would just wouldn't recommend that amount of weight loss in a short period of time that happened to you and equally at the age you were at the end of school your bone development your health and your hormones depended upon good nutrition but we'd created a very almost vulnerable space for your body to be living in at that time, which has knock-on effects.

And I think from that age, I remember going back to when we were doing your timeline, you never really had a normal again for a while with food. Yeah. And I think it was from when I spoke to you, that was the first time I'd ever confronted a lot of things. And just to, again again just laying it all out there since we had that meeting I then went into therapy I then I I then really looked at some stuff to do with my relationship with food that I had I was aware of but I think just speaking about it and I said I was like actually I have it we saw that there was just this like this wave this constant constant waves yeah extreme from one thing to another it was like a feast or famine it was deprivation or you know

like gluttony yeah I think but you were surviving and I think a lot of people like you said it's a coping mechanism for you and it hadn't been addressed so it's very normal to see almost waves on someone's line life is never really for most people a straight line you will get peaks and troughs but like you said I'm so happy that you actually have now delved into that further it is emotional and I'm sure it's going to actually be very beneficial for lots of your listeners just to hear that you know you've been through it too yeah because I think that in today's climate we have we have social media which has so many positives but then also has a lot of negatives and I think that there is this you know this wellness movement that's been going on for the

last couple of years which again has a lot of positivity to it but it's also I don't know sometimes I worry that it's like eating disorders guised in a good packaging completely and it there's no regulation on it so there can be young girls following someone that may have these struggles but it's like telling them how to eat and what to do and it's like becomes another extreme that's not really practical or sustainable yeah for life and it is masked in a guise of health which is very very worrying so the perception of what healthy is because of social media has become a little bit blurred and I think it puts a subliminal pressure on so many people because you'll see an optimum way of living or a lifestyle that appeals. It looks like, oh, that will make me feel better. I think it's really the wellness space and all of that.

It's like this packaged cookie cutter version of what we're talking about. But I hate the idea that people would go through their entire lives feeling a slave to something like this. feeling a slave to something like this? I can't bear a one-size-fits-all approach and that everybody should be drinking celery juice or everybody should be having porridge of nut butter every morning because that's what people post. This is dangerous because, no, they don't have to do that. Well, it's also you're not eating intuitively at all.

No, you're just following a pattern because somebody said, one headline one day said, you should be eating breakfast every day. Breakfast isn't going to be for everyone. For most people, it probably does fit with their lifestyle, but there are people out there it won't work. And actually, if you see anyone online preaching a one-size-fits-all approach. Watch out. Yeah, big, big red flag. If someone's trying to equally sell a supplement on a main feed page, how can they possibly say that? Because

they don't know you or your lifestyle or if you need that or require that. At the moment, particularly being heavily pregnant, I seem to get all these ads come up for, you know, miracle pregnancy supplements. And I saw, oh, take these collagen shots every day or miraculously heal your gut health and then you'll have a better labor and all these different things. And I was just thinking, what a load of BS. But this is what people are waking up reading every day. It's very, very worrying. And you're switched on about it so you know i know but the majority of people yeah and we've got a new form of eating disorder called orthorexia which we think has risen from social media yeah yeah it's not yet clinically recognized but it's

only a matter of time before it is we are the guinea pig generation kaki yeah which is this sort of like only eating very specific what we call clean pure foods yeah yeah so a fear of perhaps refined sugar a fear of gluten a fear of um carbohydrates in general a lot of the time just a need to have 10 portions of veg a day it can manifest in various ways I've even had some clients that are too scared to drink certain types of water because it hasn't been filtered so they basically won't eat or drink unless it's pure enough I mean it's that's a serious first world problem isn't it yeah and then that that's you know but you know what we can't discount it because it's mental health it's not a choice and like you said being on social

media for yourself because you've had such a prolific um journey with the media I think you know you were exposed on on the tv show very early on and then you suddenly have instagram and other platforms emerging it must be so difficult to navigate and to know what to believe and what's really real and what isn't yeah but I would say that I don't think my experience is any more different from a young girl at school because it's all relative you know and once something normalizes like say you have a certain following or you appear on tv once that normalizes it's right that's the relative truth to you but I will you know I think that the issues originate way before then anyway a hundred percent I think we've got it in built especially as women to put ourselves down a lot and one of our physicality in our physicality and in our mind as well because I think we're

constantly trying to question or improve ourselves and that does manifest then into physical changes that we can create with our body perhaps I'm not good enough because I'm not a certain size or a certain shape or do you think that's a societal pressure that's built to keep us feeling that way? Largely. I think there is still, especially in Western societies, the thin ideal. Also, of course, a natural coping mechanism that we develop anyway over time. Food is something we do have in abundance in this world. Well, I mean, it's the thing, and I do acknowledge as we're speaking about this that

the society in which we live in where we do live very abundantly we're very fortunate in so much of what we have and yet it's causing this like strange it's almost like we have too many choices yeah and we do live in this time where it's just an overflow of information it's the phrase ignorance is bliss. And sometimes, even myself, I wish I could sit back and think, oh, I wish I didn't know so much or have exposure. Because it paralyzes you. Yeah.

So I think that when we are faced with a sense of overwhelm, it is an opportunity to step back and be like, there's so many paths, there's so much information. it is an opportunity to step back and be like, there's so many paths. There's so much information. How do I connect back to me and find what's my own unique path? Rather than like picking from 10 that have been given to me, like in our parents' generation, like, do you want to be a lawyer?

Do you want to be this? Yeah. We actually get to craft something that's completely unique to ourselves. A lot you just said made me really think, oh, goodness, we're able to create opportunities out of nothing now actually. Which is incredible. Amazing, yeah. It's quite overwhelming in itself that, but it's enabled me to create my nutrition business if I didn't have the online space. Can you talk to us a little bit about that and how that all started for you? It wasn't the regular route into the nutrition world that I took. So another reason I feel I connect with Kagi is I used to be a singer in previous life, but a different genre, like a soprano.

And it was actually quite a dark space for me. Really? It was a period in my life where I felt I had no control over anything I was signed to labels dropped by labels signed I was very very young how old were you about 17 oh that is young because the economy crashed in 2008 and that's the year I just remember all the labels and everything going wrong with the direction and the path that I had chosen to take and the opportunity I've been given I'd won won a competition online with Classic FM and got moved up to London, kind of plonked there. It was like, off you go, you've got to make rent. So I remember handing CVs out down Oxford Street.

But yeah, I did a lot of retail and I remember working on the shop floor, just being miserable, to be honest. You want to be creating music, writing, doing something. Is it what you want like truly wanted to do back then yes I think all I wanted was to sing that was my ultimate passion nutrition hadn't even crossed my mind I mean I'd always loved food but I'd never had a problem with it and it was only when I got exposed to the music industry and things were out of my control, I had no say, everything was kind of crumbling around me, that I probably, without even knowing it, got exposed to restrictive diets

because it's what people did. Also then I think they were, I mean, it wasn't that long ago, but I think in terms of what they would say and get away with, it was probably quite different to today. Well, it was 10 plus years ago now. So yeah, it was very different. And I lived off those point counting kind of brands. And I would think that that's the healthy option.

I had no clue, basically. Like the fat-free sort of, all that stuff. Oh, I did all of it. All of it. I remember this one marshmallow wafer and thinking, oh, great great I can eat 10 of those a day only like 100 calories with 10 wafers ridiculous things and I discovered very quickly seeing my friends going off to university having fun that I was missing

stimulation of my mind a lot and I thought what am I going to do you know if this is this doesn't work out and I was drawn to nutrition and obviously because I had a problem with it at the time but equally I just loved food and music they were the only two things that drove you that drove me yeah that I really liked in life so I did a nutrition degree um back then it wasn't really cool. I remember even my dad being like, why nutrition? But anyway, did the degrees, did a master's, fell in love with nutrition. Literally saved me. I think it saved my health. I was on antidepressants for a while when I was doing the music.

It was really bad. Really bad place. Because you were just so unhappy. Undernourished as well. And undernourished. Can you imagine? I don't think I ate a vegetable. I was living off, which is ironic looking back, because I was living off sugar and chemicals.

And like Diet Cokes and stuff. And 10 calorie jellies. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that was my life. Do you think that that really affected your mental health then? A hundred percent. Yeah, that was my life. Do you think that that really affected your mental health then?

A hundred percent. Because that's also something that I do want to touch on with you is the connection between what we eat and our mental health. Oh, where to start? Food and mood, Kagi, is one of my favorite subjects because we now have the science that we know that the happy hormone serotonin does come from your gut. 90% of it. in some people it varies 70 to 90 if we say to be more exact but that signal sends signals up to your brain and if you don't eat the right things to nourish your gut health and the two kilos of bacteria that live in your gut there's a lot that's a hell of a lot of bacteria that people have different bouts of what

we call good and bad so the better and more diverse your diet is and i'm talking not about the wafers i'm talking about the vegetables and brown rice and good carbs and fruit you know all that fiber rich diverse food that's what nourishes the good stuff which then creates the happy hormones and then the proteins that we eat helps create dopamine in your brain so you've got these two interactions going on that we know are scientifically proven and it all stems from from how you eat if you don't eat the right things of course you're not going to be helping nourish that process you're not going to be able to face daily activities in the same way and that was really apparent to me,

not knowing the science at the time until I went to study it. That that was causing it. Yeah, I didn't need the pills. They did nothing for me. Often it's just looking at your 360 degree circle. I mean, I battled with depression in my life as well. And there was a point last my life as well and there was a point last year when things were pretty bad and I was contemplating going on antidepressants but something instinctively and intuitively in me was like look at other things like look at your life holistically every aspect of it and address all the things that could be contributing to this. And I did. And I made some adjustments, lots, lots of adjustments, lots of adjustments. And it's still it's like it's like sailing, you're constantly having to adjust to the winds.

And there are points where I'll suddenly go off again. But rather than like, there are points where I'll suddenly go off again but rather than like ruminate in it or spiral I'll go okay that didn't feel right I've checked that let's like pull back in and it's the same with food like I am so sensitive to everything I put in my body and we actually talked about this when we met when you were like you have to give up coffee and I was like I'd rather never see you again I think it was it was more the fact that you were so reliant on coffee that's why you told me to stop yeah it was becoming a negative in my life we had to learn to be able to just have a cup and not be reliant on it was more of let's teach you how to reprogramming reprogram exactly and then enjoy it rather than it being a necessity yeah but now I have like one every two weeks which

is fine or like whenever I feel like it but I also know that intuitively in my body is not great it like gives me this quite extreme anxiety I think Yeah, and caffeine does that for a lot of people. They're just not aware of it. But it's, why would I want that then? I know. It's like the weird thing, isn't it? It's so weird. It's like a dependency, and you can't be without it because it gives you that initial rush.

It gives you that adrenaline spike, but what we don't realise is the calm down. In terms of what that causes, because it's to do with adrenaline. Adrenaline and cortisol. How does that then affect your mental health? Oh goodness, we're not meant to be tapping into the amount of adrenaline and cortisol that we release. They are essentially stress hormones. Is that to do with our fight or flight? Yes, you got it. Just above your kidneys, you've got two little glands and the adrenograms they secrete the cortisol and adrenaline so

effectively what's happening is that even when you wake up in the morning your stress hormones high naturally because you need to wake up if it's not high you won't wake you won't wake up but what we're then doing is stimulating it further with a cup of coffee or an argument or you've lost your keys or you leave the house and then you have to go back because you realize you forgot to lock your door that's then secreting more adrenaline and cortisol because you're in a state of shock so naturally in today's society we're doing it all the time you're not even aware of it you are pumping it all the time constantly stressed constantly stressed and we live in a state where we're constantly stressed and the

problem is we're then putting loads of extra stimulants on top of that natural stress load and it will get to a point where some people experience a burnout type of scenario or feelings for others the anxiety is so strong and we now have research that we know that the caffeine has a 12-hour shelf life so even if you've had it at midday 12 hours later there's still a system and that so have you seen from clients that come to see you an effect on their anxiety to do with these factors hugely the minute we take out it's often the very simple things you can do with someone's diet oh my god commonly it will be acid reflux symptoms related to caffeine consumption that i see and IBS because

that's often stress related and caffeine related and yes they're often given medication to overcome these rather than the suggestion I know and in some cases medication has a place of course it does but all they need is a good psychologist or a nutritionist to see once and set them on the right path and their symptoms will slowly to separate I think that when we get in to these states we feel that the idea that something as simple as changing our diet or cutting something out or going to the gym just won't suffice because it feels so much more heavy than that and sometimes it's easier to just take a pill yeah sometimes all you want to do is wake up in the morning,

especially if you're experiencing depression or you're already, the motivation to do things is tough. It's so much easier to just swallow a pill. Well, also when you just have to get on with day-to-day life. Oh, it's hard enough, yeah. Because the alternative is to confront a lot of things and that's, not many people want to look there. As human beings, we are creatures of habit and any change is seen as scary. So because it's unknown, and I think we have such a fear of the unknown built into us,

and it's survival. We have that for a reason. It's to help us survive. And back in the wild, if you didn't know the territory or you're going into a new space. It was dangerous. It was dangerous, yeah. And you would secrete a bit more stress hormones and then you'd be ready to run away if you needed to. So we haven't actually evolved enough yet

because we're in a time of such huge, tremendous change in every aspect. Do you think it's causing this fear? Evolution and adaption is a funny one. I still think half of our, if we're looking at the more holistic side of things, half of our psyche is still stuck and we haven't progressed. Which is why we're experiencing such a huge breakdown in the sense that most people now will experience mental health symptoms at some point in their life. We all know someone that's affected by it. Do you think that that was different, say, 10 years ago?

I wonder if it just was underreported. It's an awareness thing. It's probably a combination, I think. If you think about it, you never used to see anyone outside your local town back in the day. You didn't have phones. You didn't have TV. You wouldn't know what other people looked like outside of your town. You would marry within your town.

The options thing. Yeah, it comes all the way back to options again whereas now I mean you can try and succeed and be the same as I don't know Michelle Obama is able to do that why don't I aspire to be like Michelle Obama well you're always going to have the awareness of someone that's doing it better than you there you go regardless of where you're at and you've got to be pretty resilient in order to avoid comparison comparison is the death of happiness 100 but how in today's society when so many companies that we are spending so much time on are profiting off comparison. How does the individual combat that, do you think? This is just it. I think a lot needs to change.

I think one of the biggest things that I know I feel very grateful for is my support network. Quality of relationships. Yeah. I'd rather have fewer. Count them on one hand if you want, but if they are your close core that you can literally be yourself around, you don't have to always be happy, happy around them or put on a kind of front you can literally be

yourself and be like today I just felt absolutely poo and I don't want to do anything and that's fine they're the people that matter the ability to speak the ability to voice how you're feeling I think makes a huge difference to be seen really isn really, isn't it? To be seen as you. And it goes back to something you said at the beginning of the recording, which was finding out who you actually are in a world where you're almost conditioned to want to be something else. It's so tough. Well, we're told from a very young age who we should be. And I think that, you know, such an interesting part of this transition.

I think my 20s very much reflected this, that they were, I was a product of what I thought I should be through my teen years, through like things I picked up in family, through school, all of that stuff. And then suddenly that, I feel like that manifested itself into sort of me ending up on a reality show being like, is this it? Yeah. Am I basic enough now and it was like this watered down version of like who I thought I should be but then that caused this complete um conflict conflict within because I had this authentic self that was yearning to get out. And I had no idea how to nourish or give that person a voice because that was not what society was telling me to do. I was always told that I was so sensitive. But look at what it's enabled you to do. It's you, it's who you are as a person

and look at where you channel that sensitivity. And I think that's what it's all about. It's like finding those things that we're told we're too much of. And I guess for you it was having those struggles with nutrition and all that stuff. 100%. And then that guided you towards something that you've made into an incredible career. It's just I found and discovered that I wanted to share what I knew and what I'd learned. that I wanted to share what I knew and what I'd learned.

Part of my job is helping people put them on the right path or seeing the changes they go through because I'm also quite empathetic. You know, I really feel other people's emotions. And actually, some people may say that would make me bad at my job, but I disagree. I think it makes me better at my job. I think it makes you greater. Because I think when...

I mean, I don't have much to compare it to but when we spoke I was really surprised and impressed by how intuitive you were about it and like I mean you told me afterwards you gave me like a list of things and and part of my thing was to sing every day yeah I know you know and that was about you you just knowing that that was something that lit me up. You'd lost your mojo a little bit, if that's what they say. I had lost my mojo. Yeah, and it's quite a scary thing when someone says that to you. You don't even know that well, says, why are you not singing?

Yeah. But I feel like I'm getting it back. Yeah. This is what we mean, how you express yourself. That's such an important part of who you are as a person and it doesn't have to be all arty for anyone listening it can be the smallest little things expressing yourself can just be having a joke with your colleague at work or you're that person that is known for organizing the next social event you go to it could be it could be

so many things it doesn't have like it doesn't have to be a one-size-fits-all. And I think this goes back again to what we're sold and what we're told. It's like, if you want to sing, just sing. It's just a release of you expressing your authentic self. 100%. And I think that that can, for so many different people, there'll be so many different things that they keep hidden because they're like, well, I can't express this because I'm not going to do it to that length length so I'll just keep it hidden from the world exactly

or they think they'll be judged on how they look doing it which is something I hear a lot in the clinic or how does that manifest into them coming to you um often because they have poor relationships with food as a result of not being able to have an outlet wow and the outlet is food yes deep it's really really deep but to get to that point often I don't always get that in session one it may take a while you know to build a rapport and so essentially food can be a distraction distraction or an expression In what sense is an expression? An expression of your emotions. An expression of your anger.

An expression of your joy. How would it be an expression of anger in cases you've seen? In cases I've seen with, if we say someone's quite angry, they may go into overdrive in their kitchen and they may turn food into something they could force on others to release their own anger. Wow. Yes, it's very food complex. Yeah, there's this theory called Orbach's theory of hunger and there's all the different emotions and you can pretty much tick off every single one and relate it back to a relationship with food. And this is why I always stand by the, you know, with people that have disordered eating,

it's the most complex of addictions because we have to address it three times a day for the rest of our lives, whereas other things we can just cut it out and go on with our lives. Even, not even three times a day, like it could be a zillion for someone, like every decision they make that day, they may have to be fighting back something food-related. On the way to work, oh, I feel tired. Maybe I should have eaten this. It's small things. In the afternoon, that mid-afternoon slump, and there's something in your office,

you're fighting other conflicts around you with other people. Food is everywhere. How would one or how do you help people with reprogramming that sort of behavior because it's so like we said it's so deep-rooted it's so wrapped up in so many other issues that stem from basically childhood I think it's finding the right person so that may not always be the nutrition clinic or myself or one of my my team it could be that we say actually you need the psychological support now before and then come back to us for more nutrition work you have to really click with the individual but it's an exploration it's almost like looking at

yourself we look at everything we don't just look at your diet what you eat every day we look at why you're eating and what you see about the world, what you believe is the why is behind absolutely everything. And that's a journey that does not happen overnight. So I think it's being aware that you can get help, but it's deeply psychologically rooted. And then there's the biological aspect, like I said, about food and mood connections and even things like omega-3 and enhancing your brain cells or are you getting a period are you not if you're a female if you're a man are you getting the zinc in your diet you need to support things have you got fertility concerns there's so many elements that all work together and if you don't click with the person you're talking with or

seeing with that's okay there are so many people out there. And a good professional will always be able to hopefully recommend other people to work with. It's a bit like dating. It's worth checking who's out there. Do you see a lot of people sabotaging themselves with food? Oh, yeah. Food is the biggest form of punishment you can easily get your hands on. Obviously aside from eating disorders or disordered relationships with food, food every day can be something you can deprive yourself from. You can deprive yourself of good energy.

You can deprive yourself of concentration. You can make yourself feel low and run down so easily. As human beings we want to be successful, we. As human beings, we want to be successful. We want to be happy. We want to be loved. We want all these positive things. And yet so much of our behavior contradicts that. What do you think is some of the reasoning behind that and why one might do it in their relationship with food?

I mean, it's okay to want those things. It's okay to want to be happy or successful and one thing that I see a lot of people saying oh is it okay for me to say I want to lose a bit of weight I'm like yeah of course you can you know you're in control of your body I think one of the biggest drawbacks to doing the things that sound so simple and easy such as make a to-do list go down it methodically you know it's because we do deal with emotions and changes every day and fluctuations and then we're not we're not built with the resilient stores through our childhood or perhaps you've had an experience or trauma at

some point that means we just lack those certain skills to put in place that are going to help us on that trajectory which is the sort of architecture for a good life really i love that the architecture of your life yeah exactly how you've built your foundations throughout the years will dictate how you embark upon new challenges and rather than reverting back to negative habits yeah and the problem is coping mechanisms we don't speak about this stuff at is we don't speak about this stuff at school. We don't speak about it in adulthood. No.

So how are we ever meant to know that we could actually do a bit better with a bit of support unless you have access to that information? Going back to what you mentioned earlier, I think if there are a lot of people out there that seemingly have it together and like, you know, go to the gym x times a week and eat all the right foods and yet a feeling like they're not actually in control how what would you say food isn't going to be the ultimate panacea of everything is the first thing and it's also i think the scary thing is what's underneath that. It's when you peel it back. Yeah. It's actually addressing, okay, yes, this is the narrative that I'm telling myself that will make me feel better in my day to day. But if I just unearth that a little bit, what is going on? Do you ever had so many clients in my time now over the last like seven years, people that have come through the the door not been quite prepared for the style

or the approach that we have because you think oh I'll go and see a nutritionist I work out I do everything right they're just going to tell you what to eat yeah exactly I'll get a gold star I can tick that off and they don't realize that actually they have to look at themselves that's when it all hits the fan and they're like actually I'm not ready for this right now and that's okay and I get people coming back a year two years sometimes after they initially inquired life happens and it can take people a minute to get there yeah the word is acceptance once you can accept you're not perfect and that no one is perfect and that the ability to facilitate these conversations or get support may not go perfectly that becomes easier it's the expectations we put on ourselves so just knowing and being able

to be comfortable with the fact that this is not okay right now it's learning to deal with that side of things that can really help so how does one go back to their sort of true self in terms of their relationship with food? One will go back to your true self by, first of all, allowing yourself to do so, acknowledging that it's going to be tough, that you may have to look a bit deeper and that it's not going to all be roses and light, but that it's so possible if you get the right support it really

is just have a have a think educate yourself reach out to the right people read a bit more have a think back to before you were 10 what you used to eat and how your family dynamics were and how they reflect with now I think journaling around it is quite powerful about like going through your life and and because it's not always going to have been around it is quite powerful, about going through your life. Because it's not always going to have been how it is today, obviously. And picking up on the big changes that happened that made that shift. But it's like, this is why I love your podcast concept, because a lot of that, unfortunately, doesn't come to light until your late 20s into the 30s.

And suddenly you remember things that you probably weren't able to cope with in your early 20s so you black them out and then suddenly the space becomes available in your brain and then you're able to address it yeah sort of unshackling yourself yeah it's very very very common for us all to go on that journey and it will keep progressively opening up the older you get well it's got a constant state of deconditioning yes it is all the things we picked up yeah along the way and learn what you thought you knew exactly exactly to round up then what would your advice or top tips be and it's quite a pressurizing question to be to anyone going through a big transition or wanting to really address things within themselves that perhaps they hadn't looked at I think um

if I take this from the angle of what I wish I'd known when going through huge changes was that it's okay to make mistakes and it is being accepting of the fact that you're about to embark upon something new and it may not work out the way you want it to. So make sure you've surrounded yourself with people that can help pick you up when you need it. I think my main advice would be to really focus time on people that are going to be able to reciprocate that time back at you. time on people that are going to be able to reciprocate that time back at you the way I look at it now is that when I was in my 20s and especially like going on to like a tv show and stuff and suddenly being open to everything and everybody and so many different opinions I was just like whoa and this perception of me that suddenly got was like this other entity other

than myself and the way I look at it now is like who is my everybody and my everybody consists of the people in my life that I love and I respect yeah or people that perhaps I don't know but I admire and I care about what they say and I listen to them and so like my everybody is only like a handful of people but those are the people I come back to when I'm making my decisions about life. And if I post something or I say something or I do something and there's a negative response, if I check in with that, like with those people,

and I'm good, I'm good. Yeah. No, that's summarised beautifully. Well, thank you so much for coming on and talking to me today. I absolutely loved it thank you for having me I learned so much from talking to Rhi and it was very insightful hearing about her personal experiences as well as what she has seen in the clinic I particularly found what she discussed about orthorexia very interesting as I think that's something we're experiencing a lot of today with the boom in social media. All of the topics that we cover in this series are personal to me but I think that if we are more open and honest with

each other and shed a little light on some of these issues it creates a safer space and I hope that by sharing my journey it might help you on yours you can find Rihanna on Instagram at readtrition and you can find me at kaggy's world Saturn Returns is a Feast Collective production the producer is Hannah Varrell and the executive producer is Kate Taylor if you did enjoy today's podcast, I'd love it if you could share it with someone who you think might find it useful. So until next time, thank you so much for listening and remember, you are not alone. Goodbye.